Australian Federal Election - 2022

[basilio]

Melbourne might have that but as a whole, Victoria is by far the worst performing state on a per capita basis when it comes to bringing money into the country. In next worst place is NSW.

At the other end of the spectrum is WA followed by Queensland.

SA and Tas both sit in the middle. Not great contributors but not the drain that many would imagine either. They’re muddling along, real product for export does come out of both states albeit not on the scale of WA or Qld.

There’s a divide between Australia’s economic basis and its politics.

Not intending to throw stones there as per my previous comment.

Interesting . I wonder if that analysis includes the value of overseas students coming to the country?

The economic basis Smurf is highlighting would be (I guess) the huge iron ore, oil, gas and minerals projects. Our manufacturing industry has certainly collapsed. It would be interesting to see how much employment has been generated by the resource industry in relation to it's size.

Also be interesting to see the economic return to the country relative to the overall profits of the industries.

 

[Smurf1976]

Stereotyping people because they have different views to you, isn't the way forward either IMO.

Australians need to learn to disagree better.

The division between men and woman, blue collar and white, city versus country and so on and the framing of the other side as being in some way inferior isn’t at all helpful.

Rationally all Australians ought want to see white collar workers in Melbourne succeed but they’ll rationally want to see farmers out in the middle of nowhere doing well too.

Everyone needs to understand that it only takes one dud wheel to derail the train. We need the nation sticking together not tearing itself apart.

 

[basilio]

By the way I wasn't sneering at baristas or service industry/hospitality workers, how much of the Melbourne/Sydney youth work in that sector as opposed to working for CSL/biotech/steel and aluminium? I was stating a fact.

The 10 Biggest Industries by Employment in Australia

• Community Services in Australia. ...
• Consumer Goods Retailing in Australia. ...
• Temporary Staff Services in Australia. ...
• Public General Hospitals in Australia. ...
• Supermarkets and Grocery Stores in Australia. ...
• Aged Care Residential Services in Australia. ...
• Government Schools in Australia.

AS for not being like America, we are certainly heading that way, the rich get richer and the worker gets screwed.

The statistic shows the distribution of the workforce across economic sectors in the United States from 2009 to 2019. In 2019, 1.36 percent of the workforce in the US was employed in agriculture, 19.91 percent in industry and 78.74 percent in services. See U.S. GDP per capita for more information.

Is this the source of your information SP ? The one I found gave more detail and is similar but with some big differences.

The 10 Biggest Industries by Employment in Australia​

Industry
Employment number for 2022
1.

State Government Administration in Australia​

1,612,290
2.

Health Services in Australia​

872,102
3.

Professional Services in Australia​

839,856
4.

Community Services in Australia​

787,720
5.

Consumer Goods Retailing in Australia​

656,435
6.

Temporary Staff Services in Australia​

431,480
7.

Public General Hospitals in Australia​

390,322
8.

Supermarkets and Grocery Stores in Australia​

379,433
9.

Aged Care Residential Services in Australia​

329,453
10.

Government Schools in Australia​

321,223

IBISWorld - Industry Market Research, Reports, and Statistics

Expert industry market research to help you make better business decisions, faster. Industry market research reports, statistics, analysis, data, trends and forecasts.

www.ibisworld.com

 

[basilio]

Another perspective from IBIS

IBISWorld - Industry Market Research, Reports, and Statistics

Expert industry market research to help you make better business decisions, faster. Industry market research reports, statistics, analysis, data, trends and forecasts.

www.ibisworld.com

 

[sptrawler]

Is this the source of your information SP ? The one I found gave more detail and is similar but with some big differences.

IBISWorld - Industry Market Research, Reports, and Statistics

Expert industry market research to help you make better business decisions, faster. Industry market research reports, statistics, analysis, data, trends and forecasts.

www.ibisworld.com

I just googled it, your article shows a very similar list, manufacturing and or secondary industries don't get a mention, so as I pointed out the frustration for country people constantly being bombarded with Sydney/Melbourne affordability is understandable, the main employer are either service industry or Government which in turn is the taxpayer.
People keep bidding up house prices in Sydney/Melbourne, it isn't the house price fairy waving a wand, why should the taxpayer have to find ways to support the ponzi? If people can't afford them, they wouldn't keep buying them and the prices would come down.
We haven't had any immigrants in the last two years, yet Sydney/Melbourne prices have gone stupid, whose fault is that? The whole issue is just entitled people, wanting to get on the entitled ponzi scheme, while we are trying to open the borders so we can bring in workers, is Australia like the U.S? absolutely.
Just keep cranking the interest rates, put a hold on negative gearing and only allow losses to be carried forward against future capital gains. Sydney/Melbourne would soon have a correction.
Or work out how we are going to get young people in Sydney/Melbourne into houses, when they hit $2m, then @3m, then $4m...

Businesses welcome migration agreement to ease 'dystopian' worker shortages in the Pilbara

Businesses in the Pilbara have been quick to welcome a new migration agreement that will help address "dystopian" skills shortages in the region.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Just keep cranking the interest rates, put a hold on negative gearing and only allow losses to be carried forward against future capital gains. Sydney/Melbourne would soon have a correction.

Yes, but as we know the politics are that more people own houses than want to buy them, so most of us want prices to stay high or go higher.

It's self defeating in the end, because we can't move to cheaper places these days because there aren't any, even in the regional areas.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes, but as we know the politics are that more people own houses than want to buy them, so most of us want prices to stay high or go higher.

It's self defeating in the end, because we can't move to cheaper places these days because there aren't any, even in the regional areas.

So then we have to start giving subsidies, so that someone can a fford a house, they cant really afford. Sounds like giving a gambler a loan, on the hope they have a win and can pay you back.
And the banks were given a hammering for irresponsible lending, what a laugh.
Meanwhile we start importing workers again, for the high paid jobs, that our workers dont want because they want to stay in Sydney.

 

[SirRumpole]

So then we have to start giving subsidies, so that someone can a fford a house, they cant really afford. Sounds like giving a gambler a loan, on the hope they have a win and can pay you back.

Yep, the only answer is to add to supply, whether it be social housing or home units like I suggested before. Give people a place to start from anyway.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

re. Housing.

It is Neighbours that matter.

I have lived in low class and high class units and houses, and those adjacent often made or lessened my quality of life.

If one is in Commish one can be fortunate.

Equally living among the very rich one can be very unfortunate.

I would prefer not to live among Commish given over to drug addicts and crims, nor on Sovereign Island on the Gold Coast among a similar though more well heeled populace.

gg

 

[Smurf1976]

On the question of housing I think one of the Liberals, Simon Birmingham, actually nailed it.

He was on TV last night. His words not mine:

Senior Liberals say party must address women problem and regain centre after election loss

Liberal frontbencher Simon Birmingham said gender, diversity, and climate change were clearly factors in the party’s defeat

www.theguardian.com

The great thing about housing affordability which I think is impacting enormously is, you can’t create conservatives if they have got nothing to conserve. If you don’t own a house, you can’t conserve. That’s our natural constituents and we need to get back to that

Which brings me to a broader point. In my view we haven't just seen the end of the Morrison government or even the end of 9 years' of Coalition governments. It's bigger than that, much bigger in my view.

Take a look around and there's an awful lot of things which are at an end point and many of them are things of serious importance. Pretty much everything that has dominated the past 40 years economically and politically is tired and past its peak at this point and my thinking is that what we're seeing is a much greater turning point.

In that regard I note that neither Labor nor The Greens made much reference to their own past this election and the leaders of both have clearly set a new course. The Liberals referenced Howard but, if they learn from the defeat, that's the last time he'll be heard from. The world has changed and what was relevant in the 1980's or 90's isn't relevant today.

The greatest challenge for the new government in my view will be to keep the lights on and I mean that metaphorically rather than electrically, although it applies to that too. There's an awful lot of things right now where the wheels look to be coming off:

Debt / interest rates

Building industry

Energy industry

Inflation / cost of living

Globalisation as a concept

Supply chains physically

Relations with China and others

Less certain but I strongly suspect the tertiary education sector belongs on the list too.

Or in other words, I'm seeing a greater change in society and that the past few decades' trend of living like kings with no real thought to the consequences is at an end. Time will tell but that's my reading of it, broader change is afoot far beyond just a change of government.

Anyone who thinks we're about to see a boom is in for a shock in my view. There's a lot of issues to be sorted and that's going to take a long time to work through. Many are in for a shock I expect.

 

[Eager]

The greatest challenge for the new government in my view will be to keep the lights on and I mean that metaphorically rather than electrically, although it applies to that too. There's an awful lot of things right now where the wheels look to be coming off:

Debt / interest rates

Building industry

Energy industry

Inflation / cost of living

Globalisation as a concept

Supply chains physically

Relations with China and others

Less certain but I strongly suspect the tertiary education sector belongs on the list too.

Or in other words, I'm seeing a greater change in society and that the past few decades' trend of living like kings with no real thought to the consequences is at an end. Time will tell but that's my reading of it, broader change is afoot far beyond just a change of government.

Anyone who thinks we're about to see a boom is in for a shock in my view. There's a lot of issues to be sorted and that's going to take a long time to work through. Many are in for a shock I expect.

I agree, this was a very good election for Morrison to lose. Luckily, the left is commonly elected to handle volatile situations. Scullin, Curtin, etc. Even Rudd, who admittedly wasn't elected during a crisis, responded appropriately during the GFC....and Morrison mimicked him during the pandemic because he recognised that it was the best way to handle it.

I don't agree with your last paragraph however. I am very bullish on the opportunities which will come from moving beyond the traditional dig-a-hole-in-the-ground mentality.

 

[Smurf1976]

The economic basis Smurf is highlighting would be (I guess) the huge iron ore, oil, gas and minerals projects. Our manufacturing industry has certainly collapsed. It would be interesting to see how much employment has been generated by the resource industry in relation to it's size.

To a large extent yes.

WA and Qld exports are dominated by mining and exporting essentially unprocessed materials.

NSW and SA it's mixed. Mining's a very definite thing but those two states also have the only steelworks in Australia, they also have other industries of all sorts. There's mining but it's not the only show in town.

Tasmania's somewhat different in that whilst the state does have a mining industry, to the extent the state has a heavy industrial presence it's far more about refining and other forms of value adding.

Iron ore mined at Savage River is transported by pipeline (yep, pipeline not road or rail) to Port Latta, then pelletized prior to shipping. So it's a value added product, not just the ore, being sold.

The third largest electrolytic zinc smelter in the world is in suburban Hobart and that alone is a $1.5 billion a year operation in terms of exports. Right next to that is a fertilizer manufacturing plant, and next to that is the Incat shipyard which exports globally.

Or at the other end of the state Bell Bay is essentially about shipping in raw materials, refining, and shipping out the products and even at lot of that is further processed. Eg alumina shipped in, refined to aluminium most of which is then cast as alloys or used in the production of aluminium powder, then shipped out. Same with manganese. Ship the manganese in, refine it, ship out silicomanganese and ferromanganese. The product shipped out is worth far more than the ore it came from.

Now of relevance politically, well if we just refined all bauxite presently mined in Australia to aluminium, rather than exporting it in raw form or as just alumina as is presently done, well that would completely replace the export value of coal. In round figures, it's an equal value there that we're presently failing to capture.

Much the same with other minerals. The ore just isn't worth that much, the real economic benefit's in refining it or, even better, then using that refined product to actually build finished products.

We could do a lot better economically than just digging up the ground in WA and loading it onto ships bound for wherever. That's not about profit per se, but if you've got $1 billion coming into the country instead of $50 million, and that is indeed the ratio for some minerals, well that additional $950 million is coming into the country and ending up in the hands of workers, contractors, suppliers government, shareholders and so on but it's all ultimately money coming into the local economy from outside.

We could do a lot more than just being a quarry.

 

[SirRumpole]

To a large extent yes.

WA and Qld exports are dominated by mining and exporting essentially unprocessed materials.

NSW and SA it's mixed. Mining's a very definite thing but those two states also have the only steelworks in Australia, they also have other industries of all sorts. There's mining but it's not the only show in town.

Tasmania's somewhat different in that whilst the state does have a mining industry, to the extent the state has a heavy industrial presence it's far more about refining and other forms of value adding.

Iron ore mined at Savage River is transported by pipeline (yep, pipeline not road or rail) to Port Latta, then pelletized prior to shipping. So it's a value added product, not just the ore, being sold.

The third largest electrolytic zinc smelter in the world is in suburban Hobart and that alone is a $1.5 billion a year operation in terms of exports. Right next to that is a fertilizer manufacturing plant, and next to that is the Incat shipyard which exports globally.

Or at the other end of the state Bell Bay is essentially about shipping in raw materials, refining, and shipping out the products and even at lot of that is further processed. Eg alumina shipped in, refined to aluminium most of which is then cast as alloys or used in the production of aluminium powder, then shipped out. Same with manganese. Ship the manganese in, refine it, ship out silicomanganese and ferromanganese. The product shipped out is worth far more than the ore it came from.

Now of relevance politically, well if we just refined all bauxite presently mined in Australia to aluminium, rather than exporting it in raw form or as just alumina as is presently done, well that would completely replace the export value of coal. In round figures, it's an equal value there that we're presently failing to capture.

Much the same with other minerals. The ore just isn't worth that much, the real economic benefit's in refining it or, even better, then using that refined product to actually build finished products.

We could do a lot better economically than just digging up the ground in WA and loading it onto ships bound for wherever. That's not about profit per se, but if you've got $1 billion coming into the country instead of $50 million, and that is indeed the ratio for some minerals, well that additional $950 million is coming into the country and ending up in the hands of workers, contractors, suppliers government, shareholders and so on but it's all ultimately money coming into the local economy from outside.

We could do a lot more than just being a quarry.

Albo reckons he wants to make more things here, so lets see what he can do.

 

[Bob]

Albo reckons he wants to make more things here, so lets see what he can do.

The 3 things we will never hear the end of for the next 3 years.
Climate Change
First Nations people &
Raised by a single mother !

 

[PZ99]

Albo reckons he wants to make more things here, so lets see what he can do.

No problem there. Aussie PM's have been making things up for decades

The senate looks interesting. If Eric Abetz looses to one of Jackie's jockeys it could be that ALP / Greens / JLN hold 39 seats. That gives the Govt a far less hostile senate than in the past.

While I've never supported a Govt having control of both houses it may need to happen this time if the opposition under Peter Dutton is obstructionist like it was under Tony Abbott when they said NO to everything purely to gain political mileage.

Gotta admit one gets a sense of satisfaction reading this article.

In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right

Sky After Dark regulars say the Liberal party must distinguish itself by appealing to ‘conservative values that Labor have abandoned’

www.theguardian.com

The anti Labor trolls are reacting like they've had their backsides handed to them.

Hoisted by their own petard

 

[SirRumpole]

No problem there. Aussie PM's have been making things up for decades

The senate looks interesting. If Eric Abetz looses to one of Jackie's jockeys it could be that ALP / Greens / JLN hold 39 seats. That gives the Govt a far less hostile senate than in the past.

While I've never supported a Govt having control of both houses it may need to happen this time if the opposition under Peter Dutton is obstructionist like it was under Tony Abbott when they said NO to everything purely to gain political mileage.

Gotta admit one gets a sense of satisfaction reading this article.

In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right

Sky After Dark regulars say the Liberal party must distinguish itself by appealing to ‘conservative values that Labor have abandoned’

www.theguardian.com

The anti Labor trolls are reacting like they've had their backsides handed to them.

Hoisted by their own petard

May they choke on it every day for three years at least.

 

[moXJO]

Gotta admit one gets a sense of satisfaction reading this article.

In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right

Sky After Dark regulars say the Liberal party must distinguish itself by appealing to ‘conservative values that Labor have abandoned’

www.theguardian.com

The anti Labor trolls are reacting like they've had their backsides handed to them.

Hoisted by their own petard

How couldn't they see that they were going to lose?

They sht all over their base. If they stick Dutton in as leader then they learnt nothing.

 

[SirRumpole]

How couldn't they see that they were going to lose?

They sht all over their base. If they stick Dutton in as leader then they learnt nothing.

For sure, replace one bulldozer with another and they are asking for trouble.

The Sky News people are not Liberals (as media they shouldn't be anything), they are far Right Wing, just short of Neo Nazis.

 

[basilio]

A really great piece by Annabel Crabb in the ABC. Examines with her usual flair how Morrison determinedly missed all the signs that women were seriously, seriously xissed off with him and his government.

The lost women​

Scott Morrison can’t say he wasn’t warned that women were angry. But will the next Liberal leader heed the lessons Morrison ignored?
By Annabel Crabb
Updated 23 May 2022, 9:24am
Published 23 May 2022, 5:00am

The history of human congress is littered with the stories of men who wake up to Dear John letters after years of not listening properly when the women in their lives say they’re unhappy.

But Scott Morrison – who received God knows how many final warnings from Australian women over the past year but chose every time to continue bulldozing happily along — seems to have achieved something novel, having unmistakably on Saturday night received a John Deere letter.

Morrison’s bulldozing ways are central to this upheaval in the political landscape and to the damage done to the Liberal Party.

The final warning for Morrison fell on deaf ears. Now women have voted him out

Scott Morrison can't say he wasn't warned that women were angry. But will the next Liberal leader heed the lessons Morrison ignored, asks Annabel Crabb.

www.abc.net.au

 

[basilio]

For sure, replace one bulldozer with another and they are asking for trouble.

The Sky News people are not Liberals (as media they shouldn't be anything), they are far Right Wing, just short of Neo Nazis.

Indeed. They are certainly on the same page as Genghis Kkan and if they had their way they would drag One Nation, UAP, anti vaxxers and the rest of the splinter right wing extremists into the party. I thought some of the comments made these commentators was enlightening. As usual Andrew Bolt was at his spitting, snarling best

Outsiders co-host Rowan Dean wasn’t taking it well. The editor of the Spectator said we were facing “three years of hard-core left-wing government that will destroy the fabric of this nation”.

For Peta Credlin, one of Murray’s Sky After Dark colleagues, the way forward was clear. The Liberal party, for which she worked before becoming a Sky talking head, must lurch to the right to provide a clear alternative.

“From Menzies, through Fraser and Howard to Abbott, the lesson is clear,” Credlin wrote in the News Corp tabloids on Sunday. “The Coalition wins and keeps winning when it’s a strong alternative to Labor. It loses when it’s hard to distinguish from the other side.”

But it was Andrew Bolt, the Herald Sun’s star columnist and Sky News host, who reacted with visceral anger.

“Scott Morrison’s pathetic Liberals got smashed by telling the world they were the Guilty Party,” Bolt wrote. “Guilty on the ‘climate emergency’. Guilty of being mean to women. Guilty on ‘reconciliation’.

“Who’d vote for such a mewling pack of self-haters with so little self-respect that they won’t even sack a party traitor like Malcolm Turnbull? Thank God this election wipe-out has taken out many of their worst grovellers.

“Please, Peter Dutton, take over, and make the Liberals stop apologising for not being more like Labor. Let the Liberals be Liberals again. But still I see some of the more clueless Liberal survivors crawl from the wreckage and whimper that they’ve got to swing even more to the Left.”

In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right

Sky After Dark regulars say the Liberal party must distinguish itself by appealing to ‘conservative values that Labor have abandoned’

www.theguardian.com