Australian Bankruptcies

[divs4ever]

What about underemployment? Also you haven't tackled my argument about wages and working conditions. A lot of employers don't want to adapt to the times. I would bet that those vacancies advertised will be quickly filled in the case of good companies and in cases where the vacancies are not filled again it comes back to pay and working conditions. You are just entirely ignoring my argument. I am starting to think you are arguing in bad faith at this point.

good companies tend to keep staff ( and management ) so less job openings in good , reliable businesses

a sure warning on a business is high staff turnover , that said heavy vehicle operators are actively poached by some desperate recruiters so does not evenly apply to all openings

good companies also have less issue having staff work ( some ) overtimes to flatten the peaks

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Hi Jack. how's the thread baring up?

 

[divs4ever]

You aren’t providing evidence for your argument, you are just hypothesising because you don’t seem to want to believe that a population can hit full employment.

there are always some workers that go through the motions , or would rather not work at all , and there are some openings very hard to fill for a variety of reasons ( not everyone is willing to be molested working a diner or bar for instance )

 

[divs4ever]

In other threads I provided evidence of lackluster wages growth and now I provided evidence of high national unemployment. Its very hard for me to provide reliable granulized data for part of a city. If you name a few suburbs where you are talking about I could show you many job postings on Seek where pay is too low or expectations of the company are too high and the reason for the vacancy is clear. Yes full employment can theoretically exist but I am fairly confident almost nowhere in Australia does it currently exist.

Can you provide evidence for your claim that these areas have full employment? Other than ABS manipulated statistics and job vacancy signs at tight arse local businesses with poor working conditions paying rock bottom wages?

well the statistics have been rigged since at least 1989 i had a rellie who worked senior levels and brought some instructions home so have it in print

are they more rigged now , probably

and then you have 'willing to work in a decent job ' ( which can be hotly contested positions )

if more than 300 people sit exams for a Telstra ( or Australia Post )job, that is at least 200 not lined up at the local cannery that day

 

[farmerge]

If I want somebody to clean my whole house for $30 and I cannot find somebody to do it does that mean there is a labour shortage and a shortage of cleaners? Or am I just not paying enough?

@Value Collector I would suggest tight a*se. More than likely $30 an hour

 

[Value Collector]

@Value Collector I would suggest tight a*se. More than likely $30 an hour

I think you meant to reply to Value hunter

 

[Value Hunter]

@Value Collector I would suggest tight a*se. More than likely $30 an hour

Like I already explained before it was a sarcastic post designed to illustrate the absurdity of the current "labour shortages".

 

[Smurf1976]

labour shortages

Purely anecdotal but I've become aware of quite a few examples of what I'll refer to as discouraged workers. That is people who could work but who aren't working as much, or at all, as they could be and this is by choice.

Just my observation but I've seen a number of things which lead me to think there's a not insignificant "discouraged" pool of workers who've simply dropped out. They'd be willing to give it a go but it requires various changes to make that happen.

Now a business that directly sought to employ those workers probably could get them. Just needs the right approach to recruitment.

 

[farmerge]

Purely anecdotal but I've become aware of quite a few examples of what I'll refer to as discouraged workers. That is people who could work but who aren't working as much, or at all, as they could be and this is by choice.

Just my observation but I've seen a number of things which lead me to think there's a not insignificant "discouraged" pool of workers who've simply dropped out. They'd be willing to give it a go but it requires various changes to make that happen.

Now a business that directly sought to employ those workers probably could get them. Just needs the right approach to recruitment.

@Smurf1976 And perhaps a happier work place. A company that I deal with is about to lose its manager and forklift driver. Not happy employees. Several reasons why but both are disillusioned.

 

[Value Collector]

Like I already explained before it was a sarcastic post designed to illustrate the absurdity of the current "labour shortages".

This is what I am talking about, I took this on my way to my local Woolies this afternoon.

It can’t just be that the whole of the Northern suburbs of Brisbane are underpaying. As I said I think the 2.6% unemployment rate up here is real. Because it’s everywhere shops, tradies, restaurants etc etc.

the economy is booming up here.

 

[Value Hunter]

Queensland is notorious for its low salaries. Many Queenslanders move to Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, etc for a pay bump (yes cost of living is higher but many still find it worthwhile to move).

Also some markets for example employment and housing are sticky and slow moving and often it takes time for people to accept reality and change their expectations. In many markets currently employers have been reluctant to accept the reality of the new higher market level of nominal wages and it will take time for them to begrudgingly accept that they will need to pay more for employees in the interim those hiring signs will remain.

I used to work in an job in Sydney where I supplied various types of tradies and I would get many complaining that they could not find suitable, experienced employees for their small business. Whenever I asked them how much they paid their employees, the answer always made it immediately clear why they couldn't find suitable employees.

Don't believe propaganda from businesses who are just talking their own book. If you want the real story talk to employees. How many would tell you that if they wanted to they could find a new job in a week? How many have had 10% + pay rises in the past 12 months? If you want to hire a painter to paint your house could you get somebody to start the job sometime next week or would you need to wait 2 or 3 weeks because they are all fully booked due to the "shortage" of painters?

I don't buy your narrative of a generalized labour shortage where you live. But even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's true what does it prove anyway? If there are a handful of suburbs dotted across the country where labour shortages exist meanwhile over 95%+ of the country is currently suffering from an oversupply of labour (the 3 million unemployed and underemployed people) how is it really relevant to anything in a wider meaningful context?

 

[Value Hunter]

Here is an article about the U.S. labour market (which is stronger than ours) busting the labour shortage myth and the article is from 2023 when unemployment was lower than it is today.

There is no US labor shortage. That’s a myth | Robert Reich

There is, however, a shortage of jobs paying sufficient wages to attract workers to fill job openings

www.theguardian.com

I would say the same basic arguments (with some slight modifications) applies to the labour market in Australia.

The solution to the fake labour shortages in Australia really is as simple as wages need to rise. As simple as that.

 

[Value Collector]

Queensland is notorious for its low salaries. Many Queenslanders move to Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, etc for a pay bump (yes cost of living is higher but many still find it worthwhile to move).

Also some markets for example employment and housing are sticky and slow moving and often it takes time for people to accept reality and change their expectations. In many markets currently employers have been reluctant to accept the reality of the new higher market level of nominal wages and it will take time for them to begrudgingly accept that they will need to pay more for employees in the interim those hiring signs will remain.

I used to work in an job in Sydney where I supplied various types of tradies and I would get many complaining that they could not find suitable, experienced employees for their small business. Whenever I asked them how much they paid their employees, the answer always made it immediately clear why they couldn't find suitable employees.

Don't believe propaganda from businesses who are just talking their own book. If you want the real story talk to employees. How many would tell you that if they wanted to they could find a new job in a week? How many have had 10% + pay rises in the past 12 months? If you want to hire a painter to paint your house could you get somebody to start the job sometime next week or would you need to wait 2 or 3 weeks because they are all fully booked due to the "shortage" of painters?

I don't buy your narrative of a generalized labour shortage where you live. But even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's true what does it prove anyway? If there are a handful of suburbs dotted across the country where labour shortages exist meanwhile over 95%+ of the country is currently suffering from an oversupply of labour (the 3 million unemployed and underemployed people) how is it really relevant to anything in a wider meaningful context?

Ok, you aren’t going to accept reality, so I will just leave the discussion here.

But one final piece of evidence against your claim that wages it’s low wages causing the shortages.

Queensland has the fastest growing wages in the country, also the average wage in Queensland is only $40 a week less than VIC but our living costs are cheaper.

 

[Value Hunter]

Value Collector the person who is clearly not accepting reality is you.

Even in Queensland which had the fastest wage growth (off a lower base) in Australia in 2023 it was still a negative number in real terms.

Selected Living Cost Indexes, Australia, June 2024

Living Cost Indexes (LCIs) measures the price change of goods and services and its effect on living expenses of selected household types

www.abs.gov.au

According to the table in that link the living cost index for employees in Australia rose 6.9% for the 12 months ending December 2023. Yes thats a national average and it may vary a little city to city and state to state. But a 4.8% increase is clearly a negative number in real terms. How can real wages growth be negative if there is a labour shortage? The laws of supply and demand literally dictate that wages would need to go up in real terms if the was a shortage. Wages went down in real terms even in Queensland. How do you reconcile this fact with your mythical labour shortage?

I have been hearing propaganda/fake news from businesses and business lobby groups about so called labour shortages ever since I can remember. Its really tiresome to listen to the same self serving fake news year after year. I don;t understand why you cannot realize its self serving propaganda from businesses that has no basis in reality.

 

[mullokintyre]

The biggest problem is finding accomodation.
Doesn't matter how good the job is, how high the pay is, if you can't find somewhere to live, its all over.
Its the main driver of lack of workers in so may tourist spots.
Any spare houses are on the airbnb racket.
Baristas, cleaners, security guards, retail workers, deckhands, anyone else left in hospitality get totally priced out of the market.
Who cares if food is cheaper, or transport is cheaper, or schooling is cheaper.
If you cannnot get a roof over your head, thats it.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

The biggest problem is finding accomodation.
Doesn't matter how good the job is, how high the pay is, if you can't find somewhere to live, its all over.
Its the main driver of lack of workers in so may tourist spots.
Any spare houses are on the airbnb racket.
Baristas, cleaners, security guards, retail workers, deckhands, anyone else left in hospitality get totally priced out of the market.
Who cares if food is cheaper, or transport is cheaper, or schooling is cheaper.
If you cannnot get a roof over your head, thats it.
Mick

Yep, that is what’s driving things up here, we have had a massive ongoing population growth spurt, which has lead to a shortage of housing, and a boom in housing construction, which has created a shortage of labour in those construction jobs, while the increase in population has put pressure on employment in the other industries like hospitality.

Retirees, FIFO Workers, online creators, interstate Truckers, work from homers, digital nomads, pilots and airline staff, soldiers, movie studios, Writers, tourists, Etc etc All create demand for housing and services where ever they base themselves and their family, and bring money into the community, but don’t actually supply much labour into that community, so their existing in that community really gives a big boost to employment.

Brisbane and its surrounding areas like the gold and sunshine coasts has been a magnet to such people in recent years. I think that is what is boosting the labour market here.

 

[farmerge]

Yep, that is what’s driving things up here, we have had a massive ongoing population growth spurt, which has lead to a shortage of housing, and a boom in housing construction, which has created a shortage of labour in those construction jobs, while the increase in population has put pressure on employment in the other industries like hospitality.

Retirees, FIFO Workers, online creators, interstate Truckers, work from homers, digital nomads, pilots and airline staff, soldiers, movie studios, Writers, tourists, Etc etc All create demand for housing and services where ever they base themselves and their family, and bring money into the community, but don’t actually supply much labour into that community, so their existing in that community really gives a big boost to employment.

Brisbane and its surrounding areas like the gold and sunshine coasts has been a magnet to such people in recent years. I think that is what is boosting the labour market here.

@Value Collector Well, I guess that scenario is played out just about everywhere, particularly the coastal strips around the country.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

harro Value Corrector

I thought you left

Ok, you aren’t going to accept reality, so I will just leave the discussion here

Bye bye. don't forget bat and ball

 

[Value Collector]

@Value Collector Well, I guess that scenario is played out just about everywhere, particularly the coastal strips around the country.

Yep, but I think it’s impact is particularly acute in south east queensland, because

1, for years we have had a natural birth rate up here higher than the other states.

2, we have substantial net interstate migration, each people from other states moving here.

3, we have substantial international migration.

4, As I said before south east Queensland is a base for both retirees and also has substantial amounts of people that work else where either physically eg FIFO or digitally or in both traditional and non traditional export type industries where they aren’t supplying their labour into the locally market, but add demand to the local employment market.

5, we also have substantial tourism market which adds a lot of employment demand.

 

[farmerge]

Yep, but I think it’s impact is particularly acute in south east queensland, because

1, for years we have had a natural birth rate up here higher than the other states.

2, we have substantial net interstate migration, each people from other states moving here.

3, we have substantial international migration.

4, As I said before south east Queensland is a base for both retirees and also has substantial amounts of people that work else where either physically eg FIFO or digitally or in export type industries where they aren’t supplying their labour into the locally market, but add demand to the local employment market.

I would venture to add that is possibly the same as here in WA.