Attaining Wealth

[moXJO]

tech

Without going around in circles, I strongly disagree that it's that simple. If you've come from a stable home life, with a good education and a decent work ethic then it's a lot easier than coming from a broken, abusive home where everyone you grow up around doesn't or has never worked. A child who grows up in that environment faces far more difficulties than someone who grows up in a leafy suburban middle class family. A warm bed, loving family and full stomach go along way.

That's not say it can't be done, but it's like saying the guy who starts with $10,000 can become a millionaire as easily as the guy who starts with $500k.

I disagree the guy in the middle class family doesn't really want for more. A good education and uni is a nice way of getting a good job. The majority are comfortable and their fear of losing what they have generally keep them comfortable. Those that come from nothing see what they are missing out on and have nothing to lose. Knowing you can survive on/with nothing is as good a motivator as any. I know a few that came from the worst conditions to make it between the $1-$50 mill range. I don't think its any easier for a guy from middle class.

As someone else mentioned a lot of the millionaires I have met don't come across as high IQ.

 

[Smurf1976]

Much of our life outcomes go back to the level of inherent desire or drive.

Something I've learned over the years is that you cannot exceed your own self image.

If your self image is low, then the attempts of others to push you higher will almost certainly fail. That goes for everything from weight loss to career advancement. If you don't actually want to improve then any attempt to do so will almost certainly fail once the inevitable difficulties arise along the way.

 

[doctorj]

Something I've learned over the years is that you cannot exceed your own self image.

I really like this. Very true!

 

[tech/a]

I really like this. Very true!

Yes
We all rise to our level of incompetence.

 

[doctorj]

Everyone's different and will attain wealth by different methods, thinking big is a common denominator.

Good point! You don't make big money by solving small problems.

The richest guy I know owns an insurance company in Russia. In fact, I think it’s the largest insurer that isn’t owned or started by the government. How it came about is a story of triumph of sheer craziness overcoming common sense.

The company started just after the collapse of the Soviet Union. At the time, the streets of Moscow were in disarray. Anyone who was anyone was taking what they could, members of the state security bodies (e.g. KGB) moved into organised crime and there were no police on the street. It was very common for individuals or small businesses to be forced to pay ‘protection money’ to gangs just to keep on going.

At this time, there were two brothers that saw an opportunity. They had some friends outside Russia and were able to borrow just enough money to buy a second hand German car in Germany and drive it back to Moscow. They also managed to get just enough money (think 10’s of thousands) to start an insurance company.

They couldn’t afford an office, so they ran it out of a small one room apartment that they slept in too. The idea was that they would drive to meet clients and offer to bring them back to their ‘office’ to discuss insurance. Meanwhile the customer would be so impressed by their fancy car that was unlike any of the Ladas or Volgas that were on the street and the traffic would be so bad, that they’d be able to close the deal from the front seat of the car.

And it worked. I can’t go in to details as they’re not public, but a few years ago, AXA bought a minority stake in the company in a deal that saw the founders receive billions (dollars, not rubles!). They achieved this by insuring cars and property at a time there was chaos in the streets, crime was rampant and there was virtual lawlessness. These guys thought BIG, achieved the impossible and now can enjoy the results.

 

[Julia]

tech

Without going around in circles, I strongly disagree that it's that simple. If you've come from a stable home life, with a good education and a decent work ethic then it's a lot easier than coming from a broken, abusive home where everyone you grow up around doesn't or has never worked. A child who grows up in that environment faces far more difficulties than someone who grows up in a leafy suburban middle class family. A warm bed, loving family and full stomach go along way.

That's not say it can't be done, but it's like saying the guy who starts with $10,000 can become a millionaire as easily as the guy who starts with $500k.

+1.

OK
We won't go in circles but perhaps give different views.

(1) Many with the hard start you point out use it as a catalyst to better themselves rather than a hinderance.
(2) unless your born with a sliver spoon ---- the guy with $500k was once the guy with $10k.

Sure, but this is probably the exception. Consider why we have multigenerational welfare.

Something we all quite naturally do is judge the capacity of others by what we ourselves have achieved.
I'd bet many here were brought up (as I was) with intelligent, educated parents who placed a high value on taking responsibility for their own outcomes, financially and socially.
So as we mature we absorb this philosophy and the results are more or less as expected.

Contrast that with someone who is raised in a household where there is multigenerational welfare, where the children have never experienced a member of that household who has worked, who absorb the philosophy that it's normal to feel like a victim, and that the state will take responsibility for you. It's going to be a very exceptional person who will be able to break out of that mindset.

If there is no will then there will be NO WAY.

Agree absolutely, but the point I keep trying to make is that "The Will" is often as fixed as having any other characteristic and that it will usually take a strong outside influence to allow the person in victim mode to appreciate that they even have a choice.

Something I've learned over the years is that you cannot exceed your own self image.

If your self image is low, then the attempts of others to push you higher will almost certainly fail. That goes for everything from weight loss to career advancement. If you don't actually want to improve then any attempt to do so will almost certainly fail once the inevitable difficulties arise along the way.

Agree. But I also believe one's self image can be changed. It once again comes back to WILL.

 

[MrBurns]

Something I've learned over the years is that you cannot exceed your own self image.

If your self image is low, then the attempts of others to push you higher will almost certainly fail. That goes for everything from weight loss to career advancement. If you don't actually want to improve then any attempt to do so will almost certainly fail once the inevitable difficulties arise along the way.

That really rings true...........

 

[See Change]

Something I've learned over the years is that you cannot exceed your own self image.

If your self image is low, then the attempts of others to push you higher will almost certainly fail. That goes for everything from weight loss to career advancement. If you don't actually want to improve then any attempt to do so will almost certainly fail once the inevitable difficulties arise along the way.

Spot on.

I also think that coming from a comfortable middle class is not something that drives people to " wealth ", but to a degree that depends on what you define as wealth .

1 mill dollars doesn't get you a very nice home on the north shore in Sydney. You need high 1's to 2 to get that and if you want to look wealthy and be perceived as that ( Doesn't worry me ) and buy a water front house in Sydney , the entry price starts at around 4 mill.

A comfortable upper middle class back ground will get you into mac bank / PWC etc and the high incomes that come with that ( obviously many people would consider these people wealthy ) , but many of the really wealthy come from struggle st back grounds ( though being a member of the labour party can help as well .... ) . think John McGrath , Nathan Tinkler . A comfortable background doesn't give you that extreme drive that a less comfortable background does .

Interesting thing I've noted, is that the extremely wealthy often are quite dysfunctional in most other aspects of their lives , with broken marriages , estranged kids , a single purpose to their lives etc ( though those occur at every level of society ).

Cliff

 

[tech/a]

Actually I'll do a backflip on this
My wife has a number of Street kids she looks after
And points out that pretty well all who have not had a father
Figure with leadership and support are way way behind the general populace

 

[IFocus]

Just a little off beat comment.

By historical standards we all have attained incredible wealth by pure chance no one in the history of man has been more fortunate.

By being born in Australia at this time we are actually mega rich and some compared to all those humans that have ever lived on the planet.

The odds of this happening are massive like winning lotto in fact we all have already won the big one.

Niccolo Machiavelli had a nice quote on opportunity and wealth unfortunately i couldn't find it.

 

[Buckfont]

Just a little off beat comment.

By historical standards we all have attained incredible wealth by pure chance no one in the history of man has been more fortunate.

By being born in Australia at this time we are actually mega rich and some compared to all those humans that have ever lived on the planet.

The odds of this happening are massive like winning lotto in fact we all have already won the big one.

Niccolo Machiavelli had a nice quote on opportunity and wealth unfortunately i couldn't find it.

This is a good site for famous quotes..............

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/n/niccolo_machiavelli.html

 

[Country Lad]

Niccolo Machiavelli had a nice quote on opportunity and wealth unfortunately i couldn't find it.

Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage.
Niccolo Machiavelli

 

[MrBurns]

Just a little off beat comment.

By historical standards we all have attained incredible wealth by pure chance no one in the history of man has been more fortunate.

By being born in Australia at this time we are actually mega rich and some compared to all those humans that have ever lived on the planet.

The odds of this happening are massive like winning lotto in fact we all have already won the big one.

Niccolo Machiavelli had a nice quote on opportunity and wealth unfortunately i couldn't find it.

We are about the luckiest people in the world yet still complain if our porridge isn't warm enough.

 

[sydboy007]

Sometimes I worry we focus too much on the material wealth, and not enough on the joy / wealth of living, and just being happy with what we have.

I hurt my back earlier in the year at the gym. I spent 2 days in absolute agony. I never knew it could hurt to breath, or that the pain could literally make me sweat and nearly black out just trying to get out of bed. I honestly don't know how people with chronic pain cope.

I was rather downfallen that so many people would push past me while i was valiantly trying to climb some stairs at the train station on my way to see if the chiropractor could help, though one woman did ask me if I was OK. I was so scared to fall over because i didn't think I could get up again with the pain. It had been bad enough getting out of bed when i could eventually get my legs over the edge.

So to me wealth is having a healthy body and being able to do the simple things. I don't think there's any amount of money that would be worth giving up the wealth of independence.

When I went to my year 12 reunion in 2000 I noticed that the seemingly most happy ones were those who had such "small" lives. It was like they grew up in a valley and every so often looked to the top of the valley hills, enjoyed the view, then went back to what they were doing with nary a thought about what was beyond their sight. Seems once you want to know what's over the hill, you can't quite maintain that sense of happiness.

As others have said, we're probably in the top 15% of the richest humans to have ever lived on the earth. We buy clothes and don't even wear them, yet 60 years ago my dad had a good set of clothes and a couple of worn sets for school and working on the farm. He hardly wore shoes unless he really had to so they wouldn't wear out too quickly and be passed on to the next youngest.

I think it's part of growing up poor. I never really wanted much of the material things in life. Could get books for free at the library and spent most warm days at the beach. i see some of my friends always on the fashion escalator (which goes down) and the mad scramble they have to keep in vogue. Costs them a fortune. I'm happy with my less fashionable look that stands the test of time, and much easier on the wallet.

It's not the absolute level of material wealth, more how you perceive it, and how happy you choose to be. I prefer to enjoy what I have than constantly trying to add to it.

If I can attain the wealth to let me work for what I enjoy, not for a living, I'll be a very happy camper

 

[Smurf1976]

Agreed with what you're saying there.

As I've said before on this forum, personally I don't need to spend a huge amount to be happy.

The computer I'm using right now is somewhat dated. But it does what I want it to do, so I see no reason to buy a new one that won't do anything I can't already do with this one.

The car I have is a year 2000 model and it's running fine. So long as it's suitable for my needs and running well, I see no reason to get a newer one. But then it's properly serviced and roadworthy - I like value, not "cheap and nasty". If I need a different car then I'll get one, but thus far this one is fine.

I'll be travelling outside the state 4 times over the next 5 months not due to an actual need, but because I want to do various things. But suffice to say that for three of these trips staying in 2 - 3 star hotels, sitting at the back of the plane and catching the bus from the airport into the city are fine with me. As for the other trip, well I'm thinking of taking the boat (Spirit of Tas) simply because I want to.

For me, it comes down to perceived value. I don't need gold plated taps in hotels or fancy seats on a plane. But I'm willing to pay the extra $ to sleep in a proper bed on the ship rather than sitting in a chair all night. And I'm not at all worried at the prospect of paying $1000+ for tickets to a few events I want to go to.

 

[MrBurns]

If I can attain the wealth to let me work for what I enjoy, not for a living, I'll be a very happy camper

Well said, now if you can only become a Lib voter

 

[sydboy007]

Well said, now if you can only become a Lib voter

If I'd been a voter 40 years ago I could have been tempted, but with the current mobs (of all political persuasions) in Parliament, I think we're on a very fragrant creek and no amount of paddles will get us back

 

[sydboy007]

For me, it comes down to perceived value. I don't need gold plated taps in hotels or fancy seats on a plane. But I'm willing to pay the extra $ to sleep in a proper bed on the ship rather than sitting in a chair all night. And I'm not at all worried at the prospect of paying $1000+ for tickets to a few events I want to go to.

Yeah. I'm always getting "Your going on holiday aGAIN?" I suppose it's partly about priorities. Unless you've hit the mega rich status you can't have it all, so better to prioritise and decide what's important and focus on obtaining it.Unfortunately the travel bug is incurable, but the treatment doesn't have to be that expensive

But I travel the budget airlines, or make good use of the credit card miles I've earned. Friends couldn't believe I did SYD BALI Kuala Lumpur Krabi Bangkok Taipei Bangkok for $750 a few years back. My dentist in KL asked me to be her travel agent . I get happy when I receive an email from a budget airline with a new route to somewhere I've not been before. Out comes the spreadsheet and itinerary planning begins which for me is half the fun of travel.

I dun mind the odd night of luxury in a hotel. If I can score deal on Hotwire I'm happy, but as long as I can book a room close to public transport in a safe location, reviews don't mention saggy beds or smelly rooms, then I'm happy. If ya ever in Melbourne I recommend the Miami hotel as a great budget place to stay. Only a few minutes walk to the viictoria markets. I don't understand the need to pay $400 a night for a room. I was rather happy with my $18 a night room in Bali a couple of months ago. 10 day holiday and it only cost me 56,000 miles and ~$900 which included around $300 worth of shopping and a couple of big dinners at sushi tei eating some delicious japanese food. I miss those lazy days of reading by the hotel pool or beach hopping.

 

[Smurf1976]

As others have noted, a lot comes down to recognising an opportunity and actually doing something about it.

4 years ago there was a company offering to put solar panels on the roof for $0. Yep, $0. They supply and install everything, paid by the government rebates. They even paid for the phone call to contact them and the postage stamp to return the forms etc.

There are hundreds of houses in the area I live in, only about 1% taking up the offer.

Sure, putting a few panels on the roof isn't going to make me rich but it's an ongoing cost saving for $0 investment and just a few minutes of my time. Suffice to say that I've since expanded the system at my own expense, earning a nice 16.1% per annum return (tax free) on my investments in solar.

Sure, if you want to make $ millions then you're going to need to do something with the potential to make that sort of money and you can't do that with a few panels on the roof. But it's truly amazing how much most people throw away by failing to take advantage of what's on offer. People baulk at paying a few cents extra for petrol, but with practically everything else they seem willing to pay far more than is necessary in order to get what they need.

With a bit of planning, you can get many things at a discount and collectively they add up to a considerable sum of money. It won't make you mega rich, but the average person can certainly improve their financial situation simply by taking advantage of the discounts easily obtained in day to day living. There's no need to sit in the dark living on baked beans to do it.

 

[Julia]

I don't understand the need to pay $400 a night for a room.

Depends what you get for the $400. Last time we went to Sydney we stayed at Quay West Apartments, in the heart of the Rocks, 1 bedroom apartment with very spacious living area and well equipped kitchen, plus a balcony.
It was on a high floor, and the views over the harbour, the Bridge and right out almost to the heads, was just spectacular. Lying in bed watching the sun come up over the harbour and sitting out on the balcony with a bottle of wine as the city lights came on at dusk was just gorgeous.

Plus great staff and beautiful indoor pool in one of the most convenient locations in Sydney. Worth every cent.
I can't remember exactly how much now, but I think around $320 per night.