Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[drsmith]

Mr Morrison said the dog was not interviewed in terms of its intentions.

The highest court in the land mightn't like that.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-07/high-court-injunction-halts-handover-of-asylum-seekers/5579726

 

[noco]

The highest court in the land mightn't like that.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-07/high-court-injunction-halts-handover-of-asylum-seekers/5579726

Doc, who do you think instigated this high court challenge?

You whistle and I will point.

 

[drsmith]

Doc, who do you think instigated this high court challenge?

You whistle and I will point.

Mr Abbott, asked about the injunction this morning, noted the refugee advocate bringing the lawsuit, George Newhouse, stood as a Labor candidate at the 2004 federal election.

“The Labor Party and its activists, the Greens and their activists, they will try to disrupt the government’s policy. They will try to do things that start the boats up again because that’s in Labor’s DNA.

“I’m not going to comment on what may or may not be happening on the water, but I do want to assure everyone that what we do on the water is consistent with our legal obligations and consistent with safety at sea.

“We promised that we would stop the boats. We are stopping the boats.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ver-boats-policy/story-fn9hm1gu-1226981374435

According to Wikipedia, he stood against Malcolm Turnbull for the seat of Wentworth in the 2007 federal election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Newhouse#Political_activity

 

[drsmith]

Some media commentary on the high court case regarding the second boat,

2:57pm: Ben Doherty also tells us that the government will not deliver the 153 asylum seekers into the custody of the Sri Lankan government or military without giving 72 hours written notice.

Justice Crennan says she wants the matter dealt with expeditiously and heard by the full High Court.

2:52pm: Ben Doherty reports from the High Court hearing that the government is arguing that the boat of 153 asylum seekers did not reach Australia's territory or migration zone.

But the government does confirm the boat was intercepted by an Australian Navy vessel. It is currently in Australian custody on the high seas.

I'd suggest the government is confident in terms of its legal position however time may be the enemy here.

The Fairfax reporter Judith Ireland describes the release of the above information as significant progress (in a link to another Fairfax article on this). In terms of our border security, it's not while the operation is still under way.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/the-pulse-live/politics-live-july-8-2014-20140708-3bjks.html

 

[basilio]

If I had tried to escape from the political authorities in Sri Lanka I wouldn't fancy my future being sent back to face their justice system.

Sri Lanka is a refugee-producing country. Here's why

It's a violation of Sri Lanka's migration law to leave the country unofficially. Most of the asylum seekers Australia is returning to Sri Lanka's navy will be charged – or worse


The direct return of 41 Sri Lankan asylum seekers to the Sri Lankan navy signals the Australian government’s willingness to plumb new moral depths in its obsession with stopping the boats, regardless of the human cost. These actions expose the individuals involved to significant risks of serious harm, including torture.

Sri Lanka is a refugee-producing country. Historically, 90% of Sri Lankan asylum seekers arriving by boat in Australia have been found to be refugees. Even in 2012/13, when the number of Sri Lankan boat arrivals reached its peak, a majority of arrivals were found to be refugees.

....It is a violation of Sri Lanka’s migration law to leave the country, except through official ports. Most of those on board are, at a minimum, likely to be arrested and charged with illegal migration – or the more serious offence of people smuggling.

Detention is inherently dangerous in Sri Lanka. Torture and other serious human rights abuses are widespread in the custody of Sri Lankan security forces, including the police. Abusers are rarely, if ever, brought to account.

Human Rights Watch has documented 75 cases of torture in security force custody since the end of the war, including the rape of men and women. A report from earlier this year outlines horrific torture and sexual violence in Sri Lankan custody suffered by 40 Sri Lankans who fled to the UK.

In 2012, when Sri Lanka’s human rights record was reviewed by the UN, the Australian government told the Sri Lankan government to eliminate all cases of abuse, torture and mistreatment by police and security forces. Two years later, we are directly returning asylum seekers to those forces.

While most refugees from Sri Lanka are Tamils, it is a mistake to think that people belonging to the Sinhalese majority are not at risk of harm. Any critic of the government – be they journalists, human rights defenders, lawyers or opposition politicians – face serious threats to their life and personal security, including abduction, torture and enforced disappearance and death.

This is why the refugee convention specifically forbids sending asylum seekers back to their home country under most circumstances

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...anka-is-a-refugee-producing-country-heres-why

 

[drsmith]

If I had tried to escape from the political authorities in Sri Lanka I wouldn't fancy my future being sent back to face their justice system.

This is why the refugee convention specifically forbids sending asylum seekers back to their home country under most circumstances

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...anka-is-a-refugee-producing-country-heres-why

One of the group was given the offer of further assessment but declined, preferring to be sent back to Sri-Lanka with the others.

 

[IFocus]

IFocus, could you kindly provide a link to the legislation that you are referring to when you say the government is 'violating international law"?
Thanks.

As Banco pointed out there is the UN refugee bit but I would have thought forcing people off a boat in international waters was a crime, given I haven't seen anything in the press I guess its not maybe the high court will have something to say about that.

And then there is just the small matter of handing them back to a government condemned by a number of our prominent allies with strong evidence of extra judicial killings.

plus there is the secrecy which is quite scary, what other facets of government don't we need to know about plus add in Abbotts propensity to lie freely and repeatedly makes for fascinating period of government ahead.

 

[drsmith]

plus there is the secrecy which is quite scary, what other facets of government don't we need to know about plus add in Abbotts propensity to lie freely and repeatedly makes for fascinating period of government ahead.

The secrecy has been explained.

This government at least is not in the business of providing delivery notices to people smugglers.

It looks like with the case of the 153 Sri-Lankans on the boat that is reported to have come from India now bound up in the high court that we will be stuck with them for some time. That will only encourage more.

You have been a strident critic of this government's border protection policies over a long period that dates back deep into the time of Labor's border chaos.

What do you prefer ?

The much more secure borders and hence lower numbers that arrive by boat under this government or the chaos and deaths at sea that operated under Labor ?

 

[banco]

Some media commentary on the high court case regarding the second boat,



I'd suggest the government is confident in terms of its legal position however time may be the enemy here.

What are you basing that on? The Government doesn't exactly have a great record of late with regards to the the High Court and immigration matters.

 

[drsmith]

What are you basing that on? The Government doesn't exactly have a great record of late with regards to the the High Court and immigration matters.

How did Labor go with its Malaysia Solution ?

6-monts without a successful people smuggling operation reaching Australia is an outstanding achievement in comparison to the previous government in particular when one considers what they've had thrown at them.

There is no doubt that this court case is a setback but there have been others in the past such as the Indonesian spying revelations of late last year when SHY tweeted that OSB was dead.

I don't know if the following image is from today or archive, but I imagine it's how Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison are currently feeling on this.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/hi...ers-to-sri-lanka/story-fni0fiyv-1226980954979

Despite the setback, they still have a good story to tell on border protection though in comparison to the previous government.

 

[banco]

How did Labor go with its Malaysia Solution ?

6-monts without a successful people smuggling operation reaching Australia is an outstanding achievement in comparison to the previous government in particular when one considers what they've had thrown at them.

There is no doubt that this court case is a setback but there have been others in the past such as the Indonesian spying revelations of late last year when SHY tweeted that OSB was dead.

I don't know if the following image is from today or archive, but I imagine it's how Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison are currently feeling on this.

Despite the setback, they still have a good story to tell on border protection though in comparison to the previous government.

In other words you are basing your opinion on the legal merits of the case on jack ****.

 

[IFocus]

How did Labor go with its Malaysia Solution ?

6-monts without a successful people smuggling operation reaching Australia is an outstanding achievement in comparison to the previous government in particular when one considers what they've had thrown at them.

There is no doubt that this court case is a setback but there have been others in the past such as the Indonesian spying revelations of late last year when SHY tweeted that OSB was dead.

I don't know if the following image is from today or archive, but I imagine it's how Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison are currently feeling on this.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/hi...ers-to-sri-lanka/story-fni0fiyv-1226980954979

Despite the setback, they still have a good story to tell on border protection though in comparison to the previous government.

Handing people back to a government like Sri Lanka is a good story?

Apparently Malaysia was an abomination but Sri Lanka is OK?

 

[drsmith]

In other words you are basing your opinion on the legal merits of the case on jack ****.

How again did Labor go with its Malaysia solution ?

What about the legality (or even the morality) of deliberately risking one's life at sea and penetrating our borders in order to facilitate a better personal economic outcome ?

Even if our government has bent the rules, I have no problem with that. So have those seeking economic advantage at our expense.

If we are the only one that plays by the rules for the sake of the high moral ground while nobody else does, that high moral ground quickly becomes thin air.

The government's argument is that the boat of 153 asylum seekers did not reach Australia's territory or migration zone.

Ron Merkel QC, for the asylum-seekers, argues they should be processed under the Migration Act and not returned to Sri Lanka against their will.

But Solicitor-General Justin Gleeson said people picked up in the contiguous zone had no rights under provisions relating to visas, detention and removal.

“None of the persons Mr Merkel represents were in Australia so as to trigger any rights,” he said.

“The boat in question on the evidence did not enter Australian waters or reach the Australian migration zone.

“Any claims made under the Migration Act are inapplicable.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-72-hours-notice/story-fn9hm1gu-1226981374435

 

[drsmith]

Handing people back to a government like Sri Lanka is a good story?

Apparently Malaysia was an abomination but Sri Lanka is OK?

Again IF, what do you prefer ?

The much more secure borders and hence lower numbers that arrive by boat under this government or the chaos and deaths at sea that operated under Labor ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The video link in the following Fairfax story is footage from Senate questions on this issue today.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...sri-lankan-asylum-seekers-20140708-3bk9y.html

 

[sptrawler]

The much more secure borders and hence lower numbers that arrive by boat under this government or the chaos and deaths at sea that operated under Labor ?

It's not about secure borders, or what is best for Australia, it's about downing Abbott.

It has become a quest by Fairfax, Labor and the Greens, to down Abbott, if that entails downing the Australian economy, so be it.

They really have lost the plot, it won't be long before it all unravells, now the Reserve Bank and Treasury are voicing their concerns.

 

[Calliope]

Again IF, what do you prefer ?

The much more secure borders and hence lower numbers that arrive by boat under this government or the chaos and deaths at sea that operated under Labor ?

It's hard to find it credible that people like banco and IFocus are in favour of the illegal immigrants (they are not refugees) coming here. Even Rudd didn't want that. I think it is all about hypocrisy and Abbott bashing, nothing to do with "legal rights'' or any other crap. They don't seem to realise that even if we received them on Cocos or Xmas Island, they would end up in Manus or Nauru and never set foot in Australia. Rudd made that commitment.

 

[DB008]

Heard about that stabbing in Parramatta yesterday?

Man accused of killing partner's ex

An Iranian man who allegedly stabbed his girlfriend's ex-lover to death in a busy Sydney shopping mall will defend his murder charge, his lawyer says.

Police allege Kazem Mohamadi Payam, 35, bought a knife from a shop in Parramatta's Westfield shopping mall on Monday while on his way to meet Nabil Naser, 40.

It is understood Payam is the boyfriend of Naser's former girlfriend and the two had arranged to meet over a domestic matter.

Shoppers, including families and children enjoying school holidays, were shocked after witnessing Payam allegedly stabbing another man to death.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison is considering cancelling Payam's visa.

'The accused is an illegal maritime arrival who was granted a permanent protection visa in February 2010,' a spokesman for the minister said.

'The minister notes the individual has been refused bail and has called for a submission on the options available regarding his visa status.'

- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...killingpartnersex_080714#sthash.GfXvIBJt.dpuf

Is considering? Umm...what the?

He stabbed a person the death, then lit a cigarette and waited for the cops to show up.

 

[sptrawler]

Heard about that stabbing in Parramatta yesterday?




Is considering? Umm...what the?

He stabbed a person the death, then lit a cigarette and waited for the cops to show up.

Well you do have to consider the backlash from Labor, Greens, IFocus, Banco etc, before making a decission to deport them.lol

The leader of the Rebels motor cycle club, would have grounds for disputing his visa cancellation, if they allow this guy to stay.lol

 

[Julia]

As Banco pointed out there is the UN refugee bit but I would have thought forcing people off a boat in international waters was a crime, given I haven't seen anything in the press I guess its not maybe the high court will have something to say about that.

And then there is just the small matter of handing them back to a government condemned by a number of our prominent allies with strong evidence of extra judicial killings.

plus there is the secrecy which is quite scary, what other facets of government don't we need to know about plus add in Abbotts propensity to lie freely and repeatedly makes for fascinating period of government ahead.

So, all up, you have no proof of your allegation that the government is in contravention of international law.
McLovin at least explained about international treaties. If the government offers the assurance that they are complying with treaty obligations, then if they're not someone has to demonstrate this. So far this has not happened. Australia can always simply withdraw from participation in the UNHCR. It's voluntary, not mandatory.

In other words you are basing your opinion on the legal merits of the case on jack ****.

Is there any possibility at all of your expressing a view, or responding to anyone, in reasonably polite terms rather than the now repetitive need for asterisks to indicate your apparently woeful vocabulary?
By all means disagree, but there's just no need to constantly be rude.

It's not about secure borders, or what is best for Australia, it's about downing Abbott.

It has become a quest by Fairfax, Labor and the Greens, to down Abbott, if that entails downing the Australian economy, so be it.

Exactly. None of them care about people drowning. Even when the government waffles on about that, it's completely insincere. They just think it sounds caring and nice.
For the government it's all about fulfilling an election promise and good on them for that because the successful policy means we can increase the number of genuine refugees via the humanitarian program, something people like IF and banco never refer to because it doesn't suit their political agenda.

And for the opposition they don't care about the asylum seekers either. Their own policy mirrors that of the government except they lacked the initiative to actually turn people back in order to provide a real deterrent.

So much hypocrisy.

 

[bunyip]

Around four thousand illegal boat people were flooding to our waters every month under Rudd/Gillard, causing hundreds of lives to be lost at sea, and costing thousands of millions of dollars to the Australian economy.
That figure of fifty thousand per year would certainly have blown out much further if the LNP hadn't come along and dealt with the problem so effectively that we now have no illegal boat people reaching us.

If we’d stuck with Rudd/Gillard, or if we went back to the dark old days of their policies, we could well find ourselves trying to cope with illegal boat people arrivals of 100 thousand a year or perhaps much higher over the next couple of years.
How on earth could the Australian economy cope with that level of expense? Perhaps that question can be answered by the dills who criticize the Abbot government for fixing the problem?