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ASF spelling and grammar lessons

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Garpal Gumnut said:
Humungus , I believe is now a recognised word, which developed in the 70's and 80's by those with "poor" language appreciation, or perhaps "good", depending on how puritan one is. Another that comes to mind is "hypo" , as in he had some ice and went hypo, or my son has adhd and goes hypo. This was a transfixion of the word "hyper" which to the uncouth ear sounded the same.


Garpal
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Hello Garpal,

Re "hypo", your explanation of this use might be correct, but I suspect a more likely derivation would be from the clinical term "hypomanic" where someone with e.g. bipolar disease would be having a wildly manic phase.
I don't know why the actual word "manic" is never used in such a setting, just "hypomania", suggesting a state somewhat below that of mania.
 
Here are a few mistakes which I see often in the press and on web sites:

  • The most annoying one, already noted above, is the addition of apostrophes in plurals. On trading websites you often see people writing "CFD's" when "CFDs" would be correct. Likewise, PCs, CDs, DVDs.
  • "Criteria" is plural, but many people use it when "criterion" is meant. You have one criterion, but two or more criteria.
  • Likewise, you have one phenomenon, but two or more phenomena.
  • Too many people write "to" when they mean "too", and vice versa.
  • "Should of" has just been noted by Julia, above.
  • The expression "one fell swoop" is often mistakenly written "one fowl swoop".
  • Traders often "pore over charts", but they rarely "pour over charts".
  • What is wrong with this quotation from today's Investor lift-out in The Age - "None of the CFD providers have been tested in a big market correction."? Answer: The word "none" is singular, so the sentence should read "None of the CFD providers has been tested in a big market correction." This is a very common mistake.
  • "One choice" - In the movie version of The Lord Of The Rings Gandalf says, after becoming trapped in the Mines of Moria, "We have but one choice". However, if only one course of action is available, then you actually have no choice.
I'm sure I have many more pet peeves lurking in the recesses of my brain, I'll add them as I think of them.

- Snaggle.
 
Snagglepuss said:
1. Traders often "pore over charts", but they rarely "pour over charts".
2. "One choice" - In the movie version of The Lord Of The Rings Gandalf says, after becoming trapped in the Mines of Moria, "We have but one choice". However, if only one course of action is available, then you actually have no choice
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1. snaggle - thanks never realised that "pore" was wrong and i'm the richer for your having pointed it out.

maybe ...
" traders are often "poor over charts?" lol

2. not sure I agree - "We have but one choice" means to me (or could mean) "We have but one choice (that makes sense)".

I mean, consider the (legitimate IMO) sentence...
"we have no choice in the matter, the only thing that makes sense is to go forward".
and you would (presumably) have a problem that a choice suddenly emerged when there was "no choice WHATSOEVER (implied)".

surely this could mean "there are a number of choices, forward , backward, standing still, going sideways etc , .... BUT the only choice that makes sense is to go forward."

Sorry m8 - I'm just responding to the pedant vs pedant challenge lol.
 
Ah Snaggle, a fellow pedant/purist! If only your excellent examples would be taken to heart, even just on this forum.
 
Hello garpal ,


Garpal Gumnut said:
Good grammar is a skill acquired usually through dedicated teaching of that discipline.

Yes , this is true.Lack of willing listeners and learners is a problem.

English is such a beautiful language with so many nuances in each sentence, phrase and word, that change is inevitable.

Many definitions of one word and misinterpretation or misuse of these words is confusing enough.

Change is good, it can be grating, but its good and natural and normal, and is what makes English, with all respects to Kev07 such a masterful tongue.

Many people don`t want to or cannot master basic english language.English language is a means of communication that is abused and misused by everyone everyday to some degree.

Few masters and many slaves.

Garpal
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Good day garpal.
speechless-smiley-016.gif
 
Snagglepuss said:
"One choice" - In the movie version of The Lord Of The Rings Gandalf says, after becoming trapped in the Mines of Moria,

"We have but one choice".

However, if only one course of action is available, then you actually have no choice.
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Snaggle I'm gonna challenge you on how you would have said that better.
although I suspect you're just making an interesting observation - and/ or just stirring the pot here ;)

and obviously the "old world" language of Gandalf lends itself to Tolkien and/or middle English phraseology and stuff.

and surely you wouldn't want Tolkien to change one single word of the Hobbit for instance.. ;) (c'mon - brilliant prose, surely, beautiful words :))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit The novel draws on Tolkien's knowledge of historical languages and early European texts — many names and words derived from Norse mythology, it makes use of Anglo-Saxon runes, and is filled with information on calendars and moon phases, detailed geographical descriptions that fit well with the accompanying maps — attention to detail that would also be seen in Tolkien's later work.

[edit] Plot summary
A hobbit named Bilbo Baggins is smoking outside his comfortable hole when Gandalf the Wizard passes by, seeking an adventurer. The mere thought of an adventure flusters Bilbo into inviting Gandalf to tea the next day, and escaping into his hole. An amused Gandalf scratches a mark on Bilbo's door, indicating 'Burglar seeks employment'. The next day, Thorin Oakenshield and twelve other dwarves show up at the hole, along with Gandalf, and begin discussing their planned treasure hunt: A map is produced which shows the Lonely Mountain (Erebor); once ruled by Thorin's grandfather, it was seized by the dragon Smaug. The map shows a secret door into the mountain, which the dwarves hope to use to reclaim their home and is why the expedition needs a burglar. At first Bilbo wants nothing to do with the scheme, but in a moment of anger commits to joining
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personally I have no problem with that sentence (as per an earlier post back there - the adjoining post to yours I believe ..)
(** abutting, adjacent, approximal, bordering on, connecting, contiguous, impinging, interconnecting, juxtaposed, near, neighboring, next door, touching, verging etc)

I wonder how well it translates into Chinese for instance lol.
The Hobbit has been translated into many languages. Known languages, with the first date of publishing, are:

Breton .
Bulgarian
Catalan
Traditional Chinese
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dutch
Esperanto
Estonian
Faroese
Finnish
French (1969): Bilbo le Hobbit. Traduit de l'anglais par Francis Ledoux. Paris: Le Livre de Poche. 2002. ISBN 2-253-04941-7. Contains both maps with place-names in French; the runes remain in English.
etc etc

Galician
German .
Greek
Hebrew (1976): ההוביט או לשם ובחזרה. Ganei-Aviv: Zmora-Bitan (זמורה – ביתן). Contains no maps. Four Israeli combat pilots, held as prisoners of war in Egypt between 1970 and 1973, whiled away their time of captivity by translating "The Hobbit" to Hebrew from a book sent to one of them by family members, via the Red Cross. The pilots' translation was published in Tel-Aviv following their return, and many Israeli critics still consider it the best of several Hebrew translations. etc etc

Hungarian .
Icelandic
Indonesian
Irish (expected 2007)
Italian
Japanese (1965):「ホビットの冒険」
Korean
Lithuanian
Luxembourgish
Norwegian
Persian (2004): هابيت يا آنجا و بازگشت دوباره. Translator: رضا عليزاده (Reza Alizadeh). Tehran. 2004 (١٣٨٣). ISBN 964-334-200-X. Contains both maps with place-names in Persian; z.
Polish:
Portuguese
Romanian
Moldavian
Russian
Serbo-Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Spanish: El hobito, 1964, Fabril editora, Argentina. El hobbit. Traducción de Manuel Figueroa. Barcelona: Ediciones Minotauro. 1983. ISBN 84-450-7141-6. Contains only Thror's map with place-names in Spanish; the runes remain in English.

Swedish:
Thai
Turkish
Ukrainian
Vietnamese
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Try Gollum's typical phrases lol :-

"Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!"
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Garpal Gumnut said:
Dear Wysiwg,

I take it that James Joyce, if he were alive, would be in strife.

Garpal
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Garpal
I see James Joyce was born the year 1882 in Ireland and died the year 1941 in Switzerland.Wik. says he was considered one of the most influential writers of last century.Mainly writing fictional stories using the settings from his experiences,he created a series "The Dubliners".The final story in the series being "The Dead" which was made into a film.

So I suppose he was clever with word arrangement to enthrall (please greatly,hold spellbound lol) the many readers of which you are obviously one.I wonder how he would fare in present time with people having a very different state of mind?
 
Wysiwyg said:
Garpal
I see James Joyce was born the year 1882 in Ireland and died the year 1941 in Switzerland.Wik. says he was considered one of the most influential writers of last century.Mainly writing fictional stories using the settings from his experiences,he created a series "The Dubliners".The final story in the series being "The Dead" which was made into a film.

So I suppose he was clever with word arrangement to enthrall (please greatly,hold spellbound lol) the many readers of which you are obviously one.I wonder how he would fare in present time with people having a very different state of mind?
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Dear Wysiwg,

His last work was a great read, called Finnegan's Wake.

I'd suggest that if you want to get an idea of what I meant , only if you are inclined, you start your reading of Joyce with FW and work backwards to his earlier works.

Garpal
 
1. We will get rain soon. I know it will.
2. He turned his back on her.

3a. It sure is cold in here
3b. It surely is cold in here.

4a. In this class everyone performs at his or her fitness level
4b. In this class everyone performs at some fitness level

5a. Fred looks like he's happy
5b. Fred looks as if he's happy

6a. The man that accused my brother of murder is a doctor.
6b. The man who accused my brother of murder is a doctor.

difference between which and that
7a. He chose the kind of wine which suited him.
7b. He chose the kind of wine that suited him.

8a. He chose a wine, which he then drank at dinner
8b. He chose a wine, that he then drank at dinner

the book goes on ...
Read these two sentences (8a and 8b) aloud. Does the second one grate on you a little bit?
This is because it is new. This is the growing usage of "that" instead of "which" in the USA, and to a smaller extent among writers in other English speaking countries.
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lol I'd have said "amongst" - ahh whatever ;)

9a. If I was a millionaire, I'd buy a vineyard.
9b. If I were a millionaire, I'd buy a vineyard.
which is right and why ? ;)
the book says its about " the mood of a verb " :confused:
 
2020hindsight said:
1. snaggle - thanks never realised that "pore" was wrong and i'm the richer for your having pointed it out.
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Sorry, 2020, I wasn't very clear. "Pore over charts" is correct. But most of the time posters seem to write "pour over charts", which is incorrect. That was my point.

Regards, Snaggle. :)
 
here's one I sure didnt know ( just found it in this book here)..
Compound Adjectives

10a. The heavy hearted young man turned away from his fiance and boarded the warship.
10b. The heavy-hearted young man turned away from his fiance and boarded the warship.

11a. The fat lazy dog jumped over the quick brown fox.
11b. The fat-lazy dog jumped over the quick-brown fox.

the reason 10b needs hyphenated "compound adjective" is that it needs both adjectives to make one idea, i.e. you cannot say - in this context - "the heavy young man" ; or the "hearted young man".
makes sense I guess.

(Same reasoning, 11a is right and 11b wrong)

Does it matter if you say "no-one" or "no one"? This book suggests not just be consistent in one document ;)
likewise "alright" ands "all right" :2twocents

PS Snaggle - yep - my dyslexia strikes again or just my pore english to blame ;) - I meant, I never realised pore was RIGHT>
 
2020hindsight said:
9a. If I was a millionaire, I'd buy a vineyard.
9b. If I were a millionaire, I'd buy a vineyard.
which is right and why ? ;)
the book says its about " the mood of a verb " :confused:
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I don't know about 'mood' but the 'were' is used when conveying a hypothetical situation, e.g. assuming you are not a millionaire, you are unlikely to be buying a vineyard.

e.g. further: someone who can't sing might say: " If I were a wonderful singer, then I could star in an opera".
 
Reading another thread, I've just been reminded of another mistake commonly seen on forums (fora?) such as this, namely, the incorrect use of "company's" (possessive) and "companies" (plural). For example, this is wrong:

It depends on the companies goals.
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- Snaggle.
 
Snagglepuss said:
Reading another thread, I've just been reminded of another mistake commonly seen on forums (fora?) such as this, namely, the incorrect use of "company's" (possessive) and "companies" (plural). For example, this is wrong:



- Snaggle.
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Where it could be ... depends on the company goals or depends on the goals of companies.
 
I would like to see more uniformity in English language.
By the way, French could do with some simplification too and German and many other languages.

All verbs to make past tense and past participle with –ed like put, puted
All plural nouns with –s or -es
All adjectives –er , -est, like happy, or happyer and happyest

Ridiculous proposal, but few changes were made in the past and new generations do not even blink learning current rules, except for general whinge, that things are bit tough.

Maybe it was important in the past, but lets look into future.
For modern Australian it is not as important how the word was created back in 10-th century in England.

Kids could also concentrate on more important issues.
 
Julia said:
I don't know about 'mood' but the 'were' is used when conveying a hypothetical situation, e.g. assuming you are not a millionaire, you are unlikely to be buying a vineyard.

e.g. further: someone who can't sing might say: " If I were a wonderful singer, then I could star in an opera".
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yep
subjunctive mood apparently :2twocents
as for other moods of verbs - (something I'd personally never heard of )... this website backs it up

apparently verbs come in several shapes and sizes and stuff:-

VOICE:-
active
passive voice

MOODS
Indicative,
Imperative, and
Subjunctive Mood

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_vmood.html
Verbs - Voice and Mood
Brought to you by the Purdue University Online Writing Lab.

Active and Passive voice:
Verbs in the active voice show the subject acting. Verbs in the passive voice show something else acting on the subject. Most writers consider the active voice more forceful and tend to stay away from passives unless they really need them.

ACTIVE: Tim killed the chicken hawk.
PASSIVE: The chicken hawk was killed by Tim.
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Indicative, Imperative, and Subjunctive Mood:
Most verbs we use are in the indicative mood, which indicates something:
Examples:

He was here.
I am hungry.
She will bring her books.

Some verbs are in the imperative mood, which expresses commands or requests. Though it is not stated, the understood subject of imperative sentences is you.

Examples:

Be here at seven o'clock. (Understood: You be here at seven o'clock.)
Cook me an omelette. (Understood: You cook me an omelette.)
Bring your books with you. (Understood: You bring your books with you.)

When verbs show something contrary to fact, they are in the subjunctive mood.

When you express a wish or something that is not actually true, use the past tense or past perfect tense; when using the verb 'to be' in the subjunctive, always use were rather than was:

Examples:

If he were here... (Implied: ...but he's not.)
I wish I had something to eat. (Implied: ...but I don't.)
It would be better if you had brought your books with you. (Implied: ...but you haven't brought them.)
Review:
INDICATIVE: I need some help.
IMPERATIVE: Help me!
SUBJUNCTIVE: If I were smart, I'd call for help.
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"be that as it may" ("that be as it may" ; "that being as it may" etc)
is / are also subjunctive apparently...

The subjunctive mood is used to extress a doubt or a wish or a supposition - something not put forward as a fact. Words like "if, unless may, might" usually indicate the presence of this doubt.

In the subjunctive mood the form of the verb changes in many cases.

1. 'am' or 'is' becomes 'be' (If I be chosen ??)
2. 'has' becomes 'have' (If it have any merit ??)
3. 'was' changes to 'were' (If the decision were mine)

The subjunctive mood is now falling into disuse, and is rarely used when the indicative sounds satisfactory. Almost every person now says

If I am chosen
If it has any merit

The few cases where the subjunctive sounds satisfactory and is therefore retained include

1a. Be that as it may.
3a. If I were you.
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and you wonder why people say that English difficult to learn :eek:

I wonder if Espiranza has an "optional subjunctive mood" for instance. :2twocents

I guess it's if it is correct to say "be that as it may be"
and I wonder which is correct
"If you were I"
or
"If you were me" - ahh what the heck
(were it not for the fact that I have to do earn some crust, I'd search it out - it can stay a mystery for now). ;)

"should I be found innocent..." subjunctive ? looks like it on first glance
 
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