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sptrawler said:
Have you seen the size of the intruder? :eek:
Click to expand...

Wasn't real big. The MMA thing though is strange. The Homeowner isn't "built" and a Roid using MMA fighter is very dangerous. Says they struggled. I assumed grappled/wrestled, intruder lost concisousness. I assume Homeowner was trained (martial Arts etc) in some way - no mention of weapons.
 
Darc Knight said:
Wasn't real big. The MMA thing though is strange. The Homeowner isn't "built" and a Roid using MMA fighter is very dangerous. Says they struggled. I assumed grappled/wrestled, intruder lost concisousness. I assume Homeowner was trained (martial Arts etc) in some way - no mention of weapons.
Click to expand...
My guess would be some medical episode, heart attack, embolism etc, no doubt we will soon know.
 
Most likely a choke hold thats cranked too long. Imo no need for a trial.
The homeowner had a family upstairs.

His fear of anything happening to his wife or kid were justified. The intruder was massive, you ain't letting go once you get him in a hold. If the father yielded at all, then his family is at risk. He quickly performed cpr with the neighbors once the guy was out.

You have seconds to make a decision. The majority of people are not trained for these situations. Add on top the adrenaline and fear- it gets messy. The intruder being drug affected doesn’t help.

I feel sorry for the intruder that it ended the way it did. But he has now caused a fricken mess. That father and family are now going through the wringer because this idiot broke in. The father did not go out of his way to kill someone outside his home. He defended his family inside his house.

If (by some lunacy) it went to trial, he just has to prove he had genuine fear. But there is no way it would make trial in the first place.
 
We probably should let this topic die, but I woke up last night and couldn't understand a few things:
B & E happened at 7.30am. Most B & Es happen during the day when everyone's at Work or in the Evening when lights aren't on indicating no one Home.
Second, intruder was an Athlete not a Speed or Herion addict.

moXJO said:
Most likely a choke hold thats cranked too long. Imo no need for a trial.
The homeowner had a family upstairs.

His fear of anything happening to his wife or kid were justified. The intruder was massive, you ain't letting go once you get him in a hold. If the father yielded at all, then his family is at risk. He quickly performed cpr with the neighbors once the guy was out.

You have seconds to make a decision. The majority of people are not trained for these situations. Add on top the adrenaline and fear- it gets messy. The intruder being drug affected doesn’t help.

I feel sorry for the intruder that it ended the way it did. But he has now caused a fricken mess. That father and family are now going through the wringer because this idiot broke in. The father did not go out of his way to kill someone outside his home. He defended his family inside his house.

If (by some lunacy) it went to trial, he just has to prove he had genuine fear. But there is no way it would make trial in the first place.
Click to expand...

A choke was what I suspected. But even Pro Fighters have trouble applying it effectively. Then there's the fact they "struggled", indicating a probable Clinch or Wrestle. A Roided MMA Fighter is so dangerous in a Clinch. Homeowner looks somewhat small and weak.

Lotta things very strange, not just the time of entry. But, Police woulda checked everything including background (eg known to each other) you have to assume. Strange though.
 
qldfrog said:
And I read a friend of the dead mentioned he recently had addiction issues..for what it is worth
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Cocaine. Cocaine has only a few hours of high though dosent it.
Maybe on a binge and not thinking straight and saw an opportunity???

Probably should stop speculating.
 
Darc Knight said:
We probably should let this topic die, but I woke up last night and couldn't understand a few things:
B & E happened at 7.30am. Most B & Es happen during the day when everyone's at Work or in the Evening when lights aren't on indicating no one Home.
Second, intruder was an Athlete not a Speed or Herion addict.



A choke was what I suspected. But even Pro Fighters have trouble applying it effectively. Then there's the fact they "struggled", indicating a probable Clinch or Wrestle. A Roided MMA Fighter is so dangerous in a Clinch. Homeowner looks somewhat small and weak.

Lotta things very strange, not just the time of entry. But, Police woulda checked everything including background (eg known to each other) you have to assume. Strange though.
Click to expand...
Chokehold across the artery is hard, not across the windpipe. Ones to shutoff blood to the brain, the other oxygen to lungs. If you crank the neck long enough you stop oxygen- then blood to the brain even if at first you don't get the hold on properly at first. They slap it on the arteries in the ring and it takes a couple of seconds to knock out. Do it long enough and you go brain dead.

The intruder was drugged out/ or having some kind of episode. He was seen doing weird stuff before. If he was on ice and really out of it, the father would be dead imo.

The thing is you don't know any facts if a person is suddenly standing in front of you. You don't know what they are there to do. The fear of being knocked out, stabbed, or incapacitated also drives a person to the more extreme ends of force. But its a justified fear imo, as you don't want your family to suffer over your failure to protect.
 
moXJO said:
Chokehold across the artery is hard, not across the windpipe. Ones to shutoff blood to the brain, the other oxygen to lungs. If you crank the neck long enough you stop oxygen- then blood to the brain even if at first you don't get the hold on properly at first. They slap it on the arteries in the ring and it takes a couple of seconds to knock out. Do it long enough and you go brain dead.

The intruder was drugged out/ or having some kind of episode. He was seen doing weird stuff before. If he was on ice and really out of it, the father would be dead imo.

The thing is you don't know any facts if a person is suddenly standing in front of you. You don't know what they are there to do. The fear of being knocked out, stabbed, or incapacitated also drives a person to the more extreme ends of force. But its a justified fear imo, as you don't want your family to suffer over your failure to protect.
Click to expand...

Understand what your saying but Fighters know to keep the Chin tucked, not just so it won't be knocked, but to stop a Choke. Then there's those few seconds to break the locking hold then Pummell in to realise the Choke.
Intruder musta been off his face or Homeowner is a Gracie.
 
Darc Knight said:
Understand what your saying but Fighters know to keep the Chin tucked, not just so it won't be knocked, but to stop a Choke. Then there's those few seconds to break the locking hold then Pummell in to realise the Choke.
Intruder musta been off his face or Homeowner is a Gracie.
Click to expand...
Street fights are different. I've seen technical guys devolve to swinging "big right hands". Add drugs/alcohol and it turns into a dangerous mess. I'm not a fan of the gracies (basically dumbed down Japanese) but it does work.
I was wondering the same thing though. Intruder was insanely strong, how did a 40+ yo dad put him down.
 
Interesting Krav Maga is my sport. Google it.

Rear naked choke holds on a trained Fighter by a civilian is next to impossible unless he is
asleep. Even if you got it on Properly he'd be able to get out in a split second.
Reports are this guy was staggering around other houses before
he got to this house.

The only thing I can think of is a strike to the head from say a baseball bat that old
mate didn't see coming.
The guy built like a brick Shiet house would have seen over exuberance from the owner in protecting
his family.

If this guy was not under the influence of anything the only thing that would stop him is blindside
or a bullet.

I don't know one Trained technical guy over a blue belt that melts into a wildly swinging moron. They will size you up--get close---and then your theirs.
 
tech/a said:
Interesting Krav Maga is my sport. Google it.

Rear naked choke holds on a trained Fighter by a civilian is next to impossible unless he is
asleep. Even if you got it on Properly he'd be able to get out in a split second.
Reports are this guy was staggering around other houses before
he got to this house.

The only thing I can think of is a strike to the head from say a baseball bat that old
mate didn't see coming.
The guy built like a brick Shiet house would have seen over exuberance from the owner in protecting
his family.

If this guy was not under the influence of anything the only thing that would stop him is blindside
or a bullet.

I don't know one Trained technical guy over a blue belt that melts into a wildly swinging moron. They will size you up--get close---and then your theirs.
Click to expand...
I've seen dozens of headlocks applied to trained guys. Ive seen countless technical guys start swinging like morons. I've even witnessed world champions get knocked out on the street.
I ran with the fighters back in the day. And have been training since I was a kid. Been involved in and exposed to the realities of fighting. And it ain't just skill that gets you through.

Sometimes you are just caught wrong on the street and end up on your ass. Sparring in the ring doesn't really compare to how you act on the street. Due to numerous factors.
 
moXJO said:
Most likely a choke hold thats cranked too long. Imo no need for a trial.
The homeowner had a family upstairs.

His fear of anything happening to his wife or kid were justified. The intruder was massive, you ain't letting go once you get him in a hold. If the father yielded at all, then his family is at risk. He quickly performed cpr with the neighbors once the guy was out.
Click to expand...

This is what l have been saying all along. Homeowner was defending himself. Wife and kid upstairs, l would have done exactly the same. Self defence.

MMA guy was also a cocaine user - that weakens the heart and the struggle might have been the tipping point for a heart attack? Who knows.
 
moXJO said:
I've seen dozens of headlocks applied to trained guys. Ive seen countless technical guys start swinging like morons. I've even witnessed world champions get knocked out on the street.
I ran with the fighters back in the day. And have been training since I was a kid. Been involved in and exposed to the realities of fighting. And it ain't just skill that gets you through.

Sometimes you are just caught wrong on the street and end up on your ass. Sparring in the ring doesn't really compare to how you act on the street. Due to numerous factors.
Click to expand...

I agree
But in THIS case one on one
Drugged up and blindsided with neighbours applying CPR this guy was king hit with something.

Personally I’d rather be well trained on the street if a situation arose than not.
If I wasn’t trained at all I wouldn’t want to be attempting to hold my own with someone who was.

But sure there will always be lucky punches
Blind sides
Overwhelming odds
Stupid mistakes
Overconfidence

Bit like trading without your 10000 hrs
 
tech/a said:
I agree
But in THIS case one on one
Drugged up and blindsided with neighbours applying CPR this guy was king hit with something.

Personally I’d rather be well trained on the street if a situation arose than not.
If I wasn’t trained at all I wouldn’t want to be attempting to hold my own with someone who was.

But sure there will always be lucky punches
Blind sides
Overwhelming odds
Stupid mistakes
Overconfidence

Bit like trading without your 10000 hrs
Click to expand...
Choke out happens a lot on home invasions. The last guy chased the intruder out of his house and killed him from a choke out. He was done for murder/manslaughter because the intruder had left and was no longer a threat.

Be interesting to see what exactly happened.
 

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