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and direct thru nab app ..........per the discount ...... odds are the non-user customers will also help subsidise the users ....
"reverse search" is happening. Users are beginning to search for products only via afterpay sellers. Sites are being designed for this outcome.
young peeps do not like credit. they like debit. and like to have their money in their debit account longer.
On the positive side, I would imagine that there is a lot of value to be captured and monetized from their customer data as a market intelligence and promotional asset alone.
On the plus side, I can imagine this business not needing to generate any return on the funds deployed as credit as I expect there to be potentially more value in using customer data as market intelligence and opportunities of working with merchants on sophisticated direct marketing through the platform.
Despite my concern over the long term viability of the business model, I do agree that with you that this could fly in the short to medium term. I notice there is a gap in the chart between $14.45 and $15.10. I'll add this one to the watch list.
There is a good I'm depth article that really illustrates the big picture of afterpay's business model and it is about building a platform / market place using big data to connect retailers and merchants to consumers.
There is a good I'm depth article that really illustrates the big picture of afterpay's business model and it is about building a platform / market place using big data to connect retailers and merchants to consumers.
Think of Amazon, eBay, air bnb, uber and Facebook.
Think of the marketing and advertising opportunities in the future for retailers.
The biggest difference is that it won't be in direct competition with the retailers but more of a another distribution channel with ample marketing opportunities.
It will be critical for afterpay to be able to shift and pivot to this sustainable model.
I think there is real potential here long term.
https://www.afr.com/business/bankin...ng-retailers-with-millennials-20190125-h1agzt
Cheers
Leyy
Everything is possible. But all possibilities there need new cash.
Saw recommendation of $20 a share? So that's around $5.5B for the entire company?
I mean, if you're offered $5.5 billion for a loss making company that's still losing hand over fist and expanding that model into bigger, newer, foreign markets. Would you buy it?
As to using customer info, ads... How would that work and would it be enough to earn shareholders their $5.5B back?
Google and FB dominate the online ad space. General businesses won't go on AfterPay to advertise. If retailers and businesses were to place ads, how much would they be charged... and wouldn't that just mean AfterPay will have to lend cash to spend on them items? That's just more risk right?
It's nice to speculate. Just be aware that we're speculating. Collectively, billions are at risk. For a business where if successful to the investor will mean debt trap for people who could ill afford it.
It's just the wrong kind of business to get involve in, on so many level.
But its share price should sky rocket come the presentation about new growthand market gains though.
It all depend's on what the market values the business and what people are prepared to pay for it. It is very normal for companies to be loss making during hyper-growth phase and to be valued so highly.
It took Amazon 14 years to turn a profit.
It took Uber 9 years to turn a profit.
It took Airbnb 8 years to turn a profit.
It took Tesla 15 years to turn a profit.
It took Facebook 5 years to turn a profit.
The story goes on.... All these companies had crazy high valuations and some of these companies were losing billions of dollars annually.
How do you know business and retailers won't go on to AfterPay to advertise? Businesses and retailers probably thought the same thing with Facebook in mid 2000's. Why advertise on a social media platform?
Businesses and retailers thought the same thing when AfterPay when it was initially founded and now it has become a standard to have as a payment method.
The founders of AfterPay have a real long term strategy here and are creating a business model that will a) disrupt the banks/merchants/credit card companies with new payment methods b) create a new platform/marketplace where they are able to better connect merchants with consumers and brands and have more of a personalized approach with marketing and advertising based on your spending habits.
Wrong business to get involved in? Rubbish, we can all name hundreds of ASX 200 listed and Fortune 500 companies that do much more harm to the environment and communities we all live in.
Speculative? No, this is a real business with a business model that is disrupting the retail and payment services industries with a real life use case... Speculative stocks are more like early stage miners digging for resources.... There is no guarantee or real business model or like investing in cryptocurrency... Yes there are risks involved with any investment and business and you have to DYOR and manage your risks.
I greatly respect your views on many companies but in this case I think that your assumptions are incorrect on two counts luutza.
1. The assumption that the company will struggle to make a profit; even though it has just started and there are massive startup costs they are still making a profit if you exclude depreciation and amortizations expenses (as shown by the figures you published earlier). Getting 4% of each sale is massive and becomes more efficient the longer it goes and the larger the base as software does not cost more because you use it more. This company will spin off massive amounts of cash within two years. To me any other advertising etc. is just a side issue.
2. The assumption that people will successfully pay off a few items and that get so far into debt with Afterpay as they build credit that they can't pay or will deliberately defraud Afterpay. Firstly, with the defraud issue, most people don't think that long term. I am more worried about the initial customers, short termers after any cash.
Secondly, there is a certain pride to be given more credit and favoured status. People love that and hate to lose it, particularly as their friends use Afterpay also. I would not be surprised to see a reward scheme occur once they have finished the rollout in the UK. That is not to say there is not the risk of fraud from professional shysters and it is important that Afterpay ensure they are dealing with real people at all times.
Thirdly, not paying will result in their credit rating being damaged, this is becoming more and more importsant in the modern world. Most people are smart enough to avoid it. Millennials are smart.
I think we will just have to disagree and see how it pans out. The more people pay on time the more they make. Chasing money is not profitable.The next set of results will be interesting. My expectation is that the Australian bu siness should be very close to profitable while the US business will make a loss due to the starting costs.
The reason for the raising was primarily cash flow and buying the UK business.
Negative cash flow normally occurs in startups till the expansion slows.
No worries. One other thing. The 1.5% is how many don't pay, not revenue. So no class action there.
I deleted my comment previously because I thought I misinterpreted your comment and you were referring to something else.They got that 1.5% by taking a 1.5% provision [estimate? shouldn't it be the actual?]... anyway, they took that provision of some $32M for default, divide it over the $2.2B in "underlying sales" to give the 1.5% "default rate".
When I first read that, I thought that's not too bad. Default at 1.5% is alright.
But on closer look at the actual revenue APT receive from all that "underlying sales"... its revenue is about $142M for FY18.
Using the same $32M provision for default, it's about 22.5% default.
Using the actual reported default/written down bad debt of $22.7M on the same $142 revenue... that's 16% default.
Maybe it's just me, but I find it misleading to say default is only 1.5%, the lowest among those other credit provider etc.... when it fact, when compared to the actual revenue the company is expected to receive, default is from 16 to 22%.
So maybe their 1.5% default is technically correct once you read the fine print... it's quite deceptive.
I mean, if you run a business and 16 to 22% of your your expected revenue is highly unlikely to ever hit your bank account... that's not 1.5% default, no worries kinda talk.
I deleted my comment previously because I thought I misinterpreted your comment and you were referring to something else.
They are pretty clear about this. 1.5% default rate, they are aiming long term for 0.5% default rate. As they limit the initial purchase to a low figure and also get initial payment of 1/4, the losses are limited but obviously it takes a lot of sales at 4% to make up for one 75% loss.
Banks are the same. A few bad loans greatly effect profits however they are lending far larger amounts at less margin.
A rate is not a revenue. The revenue loss is far greater than 1.5% as explained. As the default rate drops (as is happening) profits increase.
It took Amazon 14 years to turn a profit.
It took Uber 9 years to turn a profit.
It took Airbnb 8 years to turn a profit.
It took Tesla 15 years to turn a profit.
It took Facebook 5 years to turn a profit.
It all depend's on what the market values the business and what people are prepared to pay for it. It is very normal for companies to be loss making during hyper-growth phase and to be valued so highly.
It took Amazon 14 years to turn a profit.
It took Uber 9 years to turn a profit.
It took Airbnb 8 years to turn a profit.
It took Tesla 15 years to turn a profit.
It took Facebook 5 years to turn a profit.
The story goes on.... All these companies had crazy high valuations and some of these companies were losing billions of dollars annually.
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