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Alcohol fueled violence

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This following story will shock you, the victim could have died. The Judge in this case handed down the right sentence, there is a first for everything. I heard on the news that his defense are lodging an appeal on the severity of the sentence. Nearly kills a bloke and the scum turd wants to get off. Take a good look at this thug. You don't get my sympathy and just because you are a football star you don't deserve any favours, unbelievable. I will bet you that when his appeal is heard he will get a reduced sentence and may not end up in prison at all.

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Newcastle Knight rugby league player Russell Packer has been jailed for two years for assault.

Earlier Packer, 24, pleaded guilty to assault occasioning actual bodily harm after he bashed a man during a booze-fuelled night last year, with the court hearing he had stomped on his victim's face as the man lay motionless in Martin Place in Sydney's CBD.

"The person fell to the ground and luckily it would appear did not suffer those injuries seen in media reports as of late," Mr Grogan said.

"There was potential for that, Mr Packer.

"You added fuel to the fire by attacking a man lying motionless on the ground, punching him and then standing up and stomping on his head."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-years-jail-20140106-30crw.html#ixzz2peYBujEY

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What kind of animal would do this?
 
Tink said:
Since when have we seen people knocking out the elderly, there is something wrong in society and there needs to be a strong message put out there somehow.
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It's a totally unacceptable situation to say the least and one that we need to do something about.

Question is - what to do?
 
I don't quite get why stomping is not viewed as attempted murder.
These things need to be named for what they are and penalties given accordingly.
 
Smurf1976 said:
It's a totally unacceptable situation to say the least and one that we need to do something about.

Question is - what to do?
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I don't know, Smurf. Harsher sentences seems to be the only answer now, that I can see.

Responsibility for some reason has gone out the window in this country, its all about me, but has nothing to do with me, seems to be the motto.

There are so many factors that have contributed to all this in my view. We talk about education but it has to be coming from home including the TV, society and school.

Some of the discipline isn't happening at home, the public schools are having trouble controlling some of these children, some of these parents are all over the place with broken homes worrying about themselves and who cares about the children.

Drunken behaviour was viewed as a negative, it wasn't cool to go around drunk, now its all about being drunk. Violence has escalated with alcohol and drugs becoming out of control. We have a free health system that picks them up when they fall, who needs to care. Everything is catered for them.

When we were growing up, if a teenager was doing something wrong, neighbours would say something and those children would stop. Now, some people have become too aggressive, and the ones that do say something, get bashed.
Some of the Samaritans that have come forward have been bashed helping them out.

Then there is the legal system and people worried they will get sued if they do anything, also helping the criminal over the victim. The victim isn't being heard anymore.

Then we have a society saying that we aren't allowed to smack children if they are naughty. We have TV with violence and God knows where its heading with the shows, maybe more educational shows would be good rather than the garbage that is on there.

Then we have thugs like above that these children idolise.

The list goes on, all in my view.
 
There have been plenty of enquiries. Yet another one isn't going to turn up anything new.
A good start would be to follow the initiative taken in Newcastle and reduce opening hours.

For liquor outlets, bars and nightclubs to be open until almost dawn is just asking to exacerbate the problem.

Apart from the simple reality of making alcohol more easily available, the policy also offers offenders tacit approval for their drinking into such hours.

Governments need to act in the public interest rather than the interests of the funds they receive from the alcohol industry.
 
I havent read through the whole thread but I'll offer a perspective of 'alcohol fuelled violence' from the point of view of a 19 year old, who is sick of hearing about assualts and king hits. It scares me knowing theres people out there who do this

Firstly, there is no such thing as alcohol fuelled violence IMO. Its called a poor attitude. The kind of blokes who are doing these terrible acts have a poor mentality - go to the gym to look big, take drugs, get tattoos and try to intimidate. This has nothing to do with violence. Not to mention they have done other offences but been given weak punishments like good behaviour bonds

As you all know, alcohol is a depressant and impairs the body. How can someone who is 'fuelled' by alcohol have the physical ability to king hit someone? how could they hit them hard enough to knock them over? how could they hit them on the jaw to knock them back and fall on the ground? all of this doesnt make sense. maybe if they were on some other drug?

What needs to be done is stop blaming alcohol and coming up with radical ideas like 'no shots after 12am'. This does NOTHING. people just drink beer instead or compromise. A better plan would be to introduce harsh laws to punish those who do wrong. Why should those who do the right thing be punished?

Also the trial in newcastle, whilst it seemed to have worked, just meant everyone went to other places than newcastle while the trial was in place. useless

It drives me crazy when the media and other people say its the alcohol. Its like blaming the gun for shooting someone. Its the person who is in control and responsible.
 
db94 said:
I havent read through the whole thread but I'll offer a perspective of 'alcohol fuelled violence' from the point of view of a 19 year old, who is sick of hearing about assualts and king hits. It scares me knowing theres people out there who do this

Firstly, there is no such thing as alcohol fuelled violence IMO. Its called a poor attitude. The kind of blokes who are doing these terrible acts have a poor mentality - go to the gym to look big, take drugs, get tattoos and try to intimidate. This has nothing to do with violence. Not to mention they have done other offences but been given weak punishments like good behaviour bonds

As you all know, alcohol is a depressant and impairs the body. How can someone who is 'fuelled' by alcohol have the physical ability to king hit someone? how could they hit them hard enough to knock them over? how could they hit them on the jaw to knock them back and fall on the ground? all of this doesnt make sense. maybe if they were on some other drug?

What needs to be done is stop blaming alcohol and coming up with radical ideas like 'no shots after 12am'. This does NOTHING. people just drink beer instead or compromise. A better plan would be to introduce harsh laws to punish those who do wrong. Why should those who do the right thing be punished?

Also the trial in newcastle, whilst it seemed to have worked, just meant everyone went to other places than newcastle while the trial was in place. useless

It drives me crazy when the media and other people say its the alcohol. Its like blaming the gun for shooting someone. Its the person who is in control and responsible.
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You are absolutely right, Danny Boy.

The latest research in neuro-ethics (the interaction of the brain and personal responsibility) suggests that the concepts of personal responsibility and free will still have significant socio-cultural relevance. Thus the slap-on-the-wrist punishment favoured by some can provoke thugs to commit random acts of violence because it becomes a badge of honour to break the rules. Violence is seen as cool and trendy as part of the wannabe-gangsta culture. When we see the frightening phenomenon of the "knockout game" where people try to knock out complete strangers with one punch (known as polar-bear hunting when it is racially motivated), what sort of naive dupe really thinks that it is all because beer is advertised during the cricket?

We desperately need a Rudy Giuliani and not a Neville Chamberlain-like public health response. We should be taking on the perpetrators of violence in our streets, not cowering away from them and blaming ourselves for allowing them access to alcohol.
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(my bolds)

See more;
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...nce-thats-needed/story-e6frgd0x-1226796813410
 
db94 said:
As you all know, alcohol is a depressant and impairs the body. How can someone who is 'fuelled' by alcohol have the physical ability to king hit someone? how could they hit them hard enough to knock them over? how could they hit them on the jaw to knock them back and fall on the ground? all of this doesnt make sense. maybe if they were on some other drug?
Click to expand...

part of the issue is people don't realise how easy it is for a punch to kill. I blame the fight seens in action movies where the hero and villian slug it out with punch after punch, getting up and showing their strength.

I heard on a radio doco years ago at the punches in most movie fight scenes would kill a Rhino, so people dying from similar punches is understandable. Definitely don't have to be on any other drugs apart from alcohol to cause death.

I'd also say forcing the political parties to stop accepting donations from the Alcohol and Pubs industries is a godo step forward to allow action to take place. The current Liberal Govt in NSW has very close ties with the AHA, which probably explains why nothing has happened since the last election:

For starters, the chief executive of the NSW branch of the Australian Hotels Association, Paul Nicolaou, is a former Liberal candidate who for many years ran the state party's fund-raising arm, the Millennium Forum.

He also happens to be close to the minister responsible for liquor licensing matters in NSW, George Souris.

Then there is the party powerbroker Michael Photios, who runs the dominant left faction of the NSW Liberals.
To capitalise on the election of a Coalition government he established a political lobbying firm, Premier State. The AHA is a key client.

Now factor in the hundreds of thousands of dollars the AHA donated to the NSW Liberal Party shortly before the 2011 election, and a damning picture begins to emerge.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/ofarr...ed-violence-20140107-30fh9.html#ixzz2ptR2N02V
 
sydboy007 said:
part of the issue is people don't realise how easy it is for a punch to kill. I blame the fight seens in action movies where the hero and villian slug it out with punch after punch, getting up and showing their strength.

I heard on a radio doco years ago at the punches in most movie fight scenes would kill a Rhino, so people dying from similar punches is understandable. Definitely don't have to be on any other drugs apart from alcohol to cause death.

I'd also say forcing the political parties to stop accepting donations from the Alcohol and Pubs industries is a godo step forward to allow action to take place. The current Liberal Govt in NSW has very close ties with the AHA, which probably explains why nothing has happened since the last election:

For starters, the chief executive of the NSW branch of the Australian Hotels Association, Paul Nicolaou, is a former Liberal candidate who for many years ran the state party's fund-raising arm, the Millennium Forum.

He also happens to be close to the minister responsible for liquor licensing matters in NSW, George Souris.

Then there is the party powerbroker Michael Photios, who runs the dominant left faction of the NSW Liberals.
To capitalise on the election of a Coalition government he established a political lobbying firm, Premier State. The AHA is a key client.

Now factor in the hundreds of thousands of dollars the AHA donated to the NSW Liberal Party shortly before the 2011 election, and a damning picture begins to emerge.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/ofarr...ed-violence-20140107-30fh9.html#ixzz2ptR2N02V
Click to expand...


completely agree that people dont realise how easy it is to knock someone out. And most people my age dont realise that its not the hit which kills them but the fall. This should be taught at schools

I just cant see a solution to this problem that the public would like, unfortunately. I feel something drastic has to change, and not the laws regarding alcohol more the offenders.
 
Chris45 said:
Maybe we should try the Malaysian approach.

[video]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ebe_1181569371[/video]
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honestly think that could work but this would never happen in Australia. some people do just need a good caning
 
sydboy007 said:
part of the issue is people don't realise how easy it is for a punch to kill. I blame the fight seens in action movies where the hero and villian slug it out with punch after punch, getting up and showing their strength.

I heard on a radio doco years ago at the punches in most movie fight scenes would kill a Rhino, so people dying from similar punches is understandable. Definitely don't have to be on any other drugs apart from alcohol to cause death.

I'd also say forcing the political parties to stop accepting donations from the Alcohol and Pubs industries is a godo step forward to allow action to take place. The current Liberal Govt in NSW has very close ties with the AHA, which probably explains why nothing has happened since the last election:

For starters, the chief executive of the NSW branch of the Australian Hotels Association, Paul Nicolaou, is a former Liberal candidate who for many years ran the state party's fund-raising arm, the Millennium Forum.

He also happens to be close to the minister responsible for liquor licensing matters in NSW, George Souris.

Then there is the party powerbroker Michael Photios, who runs the dominant left faction of the NSW Liberals.
To capitalise on the election of a Coalition government he established a political lobbying firm, Premier State. The AHA is a key client.

Now factor in the hundreds of thousands of dollars the AHA donated to the NSW Liberal Party shortly before the 2011 election, and a damning picture begins to emerge.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/ofarr...ed-violence-20140107-30fh9.html#ixzz2ptR2N02V
Click to expand...

Syd, you do need to stop over using the Liberal/ coalition bashing onus.
It detracts from your otherwise well thought out posts.
I'm sure we could find many Labor/union, hotel or alchohol based posts. You are starting to come across as a Labor Party media rep.:xyxthumbs
 
db94 said:
What needs to be done is stop blaming alcohol and coming up with radical ideas like 'no shots after 12am'. This does NOTHING. people just drink beer instead or compromise. A better plan would be to introduce harsh laws to punish those who do wrong. Why should those who do the right thing be punished?

Also the trial in newcastle, whilst it seemed to have worked, just meant everyone went to other places than newcastle while the trial was in place. useless
Click to expand...
Agreed there and here's another similar example.

Hobart, December 2005. The largest nightclub (indeed the only truly large nightclub in the Hobart) was permanently closed amidst a blaze of controversy and after prolonged conflict with surrounding residents.

What happened? Two things really. Huge queues outside the second largest venue (which is only 40% the size of the one that closed) and a boom in "house parties".

That other club soon earned the unfortunate nickname of "Fight Club" for all the wrong reasons. Trouble inside, trouble outside as well on a constant basis. And the house parties simply moved a modest problem (which wasn't violence - just random acts of drunk behaviour such as minor vandalism, mess in the street, noise and so on) from one large venue and it's immediate surrounds to something that was spread across the suburbs and impossible to control.

Then came the troubles on the Waterfront (main nightlife area in Hobart) which erupted after that large venue nearby (but not on the Watefront itself - a few minutes walk away) was closed. Violence and so on then became the problem.

The other big problem was that other operators tended to adopt a "get in quick" attitude fearing that they too would be shut down (indeed one of them was for a brief period) and that brought even more trouble. If you're going to be closed anyway, then you may as well do everything as cheaply as possible and sell as much booze as you can. And that's exactly what some of them did for a few years (seems to have improved more recently).

In short, shutting down the largest venue in town (and so far as actual nightclubs as such are concerned it represented about 45% of the total capacity of all clubs in Hobart) turned a problem into a bigger one and spread it all over the place. Not what I'd call a success. A few people having sex, throwing up and otherwise making a mess in the back streets of Battery Point was easier to deal with than actual fights at other clubs and problems spread all over the place.

I should point out that Club Surreal was never forced to close as such. It just had conditions imposed (2am closure on Saturday nights, closing at midnight on other nights) which made it unprofitable to continue. And so the owner simply walked away from the business there and then. 8 years later the bottle shop is still trading under different ownership, having been extended into the lower level of the former nightclub, but the rest of it remains an empty building on an inner suburban site (expensive real estate).

Whilst other cities don't generally have such dominance of a single venue, closing all of them early wouldn't work in my opinion. It just moves the problem from a relatively small number of venues that are centralised and sort of controllable to being spread all over the place and impossible to control. It doesn't really work, and of course alcohol sales through bottle shops are already vastly greater than sales at nightclubs so it's only addressing a very minor part of the problem (albeit a highly visible part). If people are going to party until the sun comes up then they're safer in a club than on the streets, in a park etc.

Even if we permanently closed every pub and nightclub in the whole country, that only diverts alcohol sales to the much cheaper alcohol available from bottle shops which already dominate the market. And to the extent that there's trouble, it just moves it from the city or town center to the suburbs or back streets. Less visible perhaps, but not fixed as such.

All that said, I can see earlier closing (say, 1am) might work if the entire alcohol industry was restructured drastically. I'm thinking along the lines of a tax on bottle shop sales, a fairly hefty tax, and using that money to subsidise venues that provide entertainment (live music, DJ's, quiz nights, whatever) to keep them viable. I see a few benefits there. The cheapest booze gets more expensive and it facilitates earlier closing of entertainment type venues without them becoming financially unviable. It would help restore the live music scene too which wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion. Use the rest of the money to fund extra police resources to deal with the problems to the extent that they still occur.

Whilst no doubt some would object to a surge in prices at bottle shops, to be honest they're a big part of the problem anyway. People get drunk on cheap booze, then turn up in the cities and cause trouble. And whilst I'm not going to defend smoking (I don't smoke), tobacco is a very highly taxed product on health grounds but I've never seen someone decide to bash someone innocent after having a cigarette. People seem reluctant to admit it, but alcohol is doing an awful lot of damage in Australian society these days (and for the record I do drink sometimes, but I don't go and bash someone afterward - getting drunk just makes me sing and dance rather badly :)).

Alcohol is, of course, also directly linked to all sorts of health problems other than violence. Depression is one, cancer is another. I'm not suggesting prohibition or ridiculous rates of tax, but I do think that prices at bottle shops (ie the cheap source of booze) could be raised and the money put to worthwhile purposes, maintaining the viability of entertainment without such a high reliance on alcohol sales after midnight being one of them. :2twocents
 
sptrawler said:
Syd, you do need to stop over using the Liberal/ coalition bashing onus.
It detracts from your otherwise well thought out posts.
I'm sure we could find many Labor/union, hotel or alchohol based posts. You are starting to come across as a Labor Party media rep.:xyxthumbs
Click to expand...

You might be right about Labor and the hotel / alcohol industry, but my previous post makes a very valid point at this time because at the end of the day NSW has a Liberal State Government that appears to be very close to the AHA and Alcohol industry. Too close IMHO.

In the 12 months since poor Thomas Kelly was King hit in the Cross and killed, the current Government has done practically NOTHING, and this with intense media coverage, police asking for change, most of the inner city hospitals asking for change. You have to ask why???

To me this is a classic example of what Michael Sandel highlighted in his talk about the Moral limits of markets, and how we're becoming a market society, where money talks. Increasingly it seems the lobbyists are winning.

If it was a Labor Govt doing the same as what I'm currently seeing in NSW I'd be just a critical of them. It's a factually based criticism. Should we remain silent on these issues?
 
Smurf1976 said:
Whilst no doubt some would object to a surge in prices at bottle shops, to be honest they're a big part of the problem anyway. People get drunk on cheap booze, then turn up in the cities and cause trouble. And whilst I'm not going to defend smoking (I don't smoke), tobacco is a very highly taxed product on health grounds but I've never seen someone decide to bash someone innocent after having a cigarette. People seem reluctant to admit it, but alcohol is doing an awful lot of damage in Australian society these days (and for the record I do drink sometimes, but I don't go and bash someone afterward - getting drunk just makes me sing and dance rather badly :)).
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I'd prefer to see a minnimum price for alcohol to stop the cheapp stuff being so cheap.

I'm sick of being penalised by the high cost of most alcohol in this country because 1-2% abuse it. Most of us wont go out and drink more if alcohol is cheaper, but i would happily trade up.

I was in Taiwan a couple of months ago. 750Ml bottle of Absolut was $15, 12 year old Famous Grouse $26 750Ml, Black Label $29 750Ml

I'd have been a very happy scotch drinker, but sad that wine is 4 times the price of Australia.

maybe we use some of the tricks from the fight against smoking - ban advertising and sports sponsorship, limit discounts to small quantities ie no more 2 case for X deals and make some videos showing how stupid people are when they're drunk and what some of the bad things that can happen to you and show them to year 10 students. I'm still shocked that along the George Street strip in Sydney where a lot of violence occurs there's 10 bus / phone advertising posters for alcohol over a 1.5 km stretch. It's near saturation advertising.
 

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