Afghanistan: Another Vietnam

Perhaps it is time that Australian troops were pulled back from Afghanistan.

I don't feel the Americans have got the guts for a fight to win there, and our diggers will suffer as a consequence..

The Islamists are so fractured and their ideology so foreign to ours, I reckon we should just let them beat the crap out of each other and then see whats left at the end, and make a decision on whether to re-engage then.

gg

Agree. Endure the humiliation and get out. The invasion should never have occurred in the first place. Just an appalling waste of life, military and civilian.

Garpal Gumnut said:

We have hardened up mate, and the very fact that I can post a thread like this without the basket weavers banning it is justification for the fact that the wheel is turning.

The Atrocity of 9/11 will be paid for by the perpetrators.

We have hardened up.

gg

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I'd be inclined to think that the perpetrators paid in advance for 9/11 after the cold war saga and Russia pulled out of there. The Afghanis were used up and spat out after the US had no need to fight Russia any more.
The US think they can decimate countries on a whim and continue on merrily, then whine when pent up rage is released in the way of retaliation years later.

When you live in sand and filth in barren lands, I'd reckon one has a lot of time to think about and plot revenge.

So 3000 odd people died in 9/11. So what? Sure it's 3000 needless dead but it's a drop in the ocean of the blood spilled by the US.


So the US has spent 1 trillion dollars on these two conflicts. I'm no scientist and certainly no economic guru but it seems to me that money could have been spent on alternative fuel source research. It could also have offered transition from economic dependency of big oil to these new technologies.

The power of the middle east suddenly doesn't seem so clear with alternate technologies. Major embargoes and restraints on those "terrorist" countries could be imposed. No Afghani leaves their country for god fearing western countries and they are left to their own devices.



Cheers,

nunthewiser said:

while i also do not condone the use of these terrorist tactics , i also understand why they use them ................ how else are they going to win ?

its called WAR and when it comes to the crunch , both sides want/need to win it .

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Well said, Nun. War is war. Win at all costs. I know if some country had been bombing my homeland for the best part of my lifetime I'd seriously contemplate revenge with any means possible.

It's not right but it is human nature.


cheers,



cheers,

This is the stupidity of the US. They could have gone into Iraq or Afganistan and spent 10% of what they have spent - on things for the people like food, hospitals, education etc and nearly everyone would have been on there side. And very few casualties. Instead they came in like the SS and are now despised by the locals who will live a catastrophic life for generations to come.

Rest in peace to these two young Diggers killed today by an IED. This on a day when 10 NATO soldiers died at the hands of the Taleban.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kills-2-diggers/story-e6frg6nf-1225876897022

No end in site for this guerilla war. The parallel with Vietnam is appropriate.

Bushman said:

Rest in peace to these two young Diggers killed today by an IED. This on a day when 10 NATO soldiers died at the hands of the Taleban.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kills-2-diggers/story-e6frg6nf-1225876897022

No end in site for this guerilla war. The parallel with Vietnam is appropriate.

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Not good

I'd like to know what they think might be their exit strategy? I can see nothing in between either some sort of massive blitzkrieg with enormous casualties, or an inglorious withdrawal at some indeterminate point in the future.

Yep, Viet Nam MkII indeed.

One side has to follow Geneva Convention plus never ending laws of engagement and the other side is free to do whatever they can think of.

Reminds me of local criminals in Australia and the Government here does't win either.

Pitty it has to be that way.

If you pull the media out, then things would get done a lot quicker.

Ah, if it was as simple as you thought you thought wrong.

U.S. discovers $1 trillion Afghan mineral deposits: report

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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65D0OH20100614?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

Cheers

Further deaths and injuries of Australian soldiers in Afghanistan raises the question of what the hell we are doing there. It is quite obvious that it will never be politically acceptable to provide enough troops to actually do the job of containing the Taliban.

The numbers of young Afghan men fleeing to Australia far exceeds the number of troops we send to Afghanistan. Presumably these men are fleeing from the same people that our troops are fighting. Part of our job in Afghanistan is to train an Afghan army.

If these men don't want to stay and fight the Taliban, why should we?

IMO this is not our war. It's not our problem so we should not be there, losing men and women fighting for a cause which has nothing to do with Australia.

If the politicians want to be there and show face, then let them go to war and go and fight. These guys will be the first ones home to run home with their tails between their legs. Talk is cheap and easy if it doesn't affect you personally. In the meantime, we continue to lose good soldiers and this not not good for anybody.

MACD said:

IMO this is not our war. It's not our problem so we should not be there, losing men and women fighting for a cause which has nothing to do with Australia.

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I'd like to see all our troops withdrawn from Afghanistan.
However, to say it's 'not our war' is not completely fair.

Let's remember that the Coalition of the Willing (stupid name) invaded Afghanistan following the 9/11 attack. The rationale for this was supposed to be that Bin Laden was being sheltered there.
How that was allowed to become a reason for bombing the **** out of civilian occupied cities etc is beyond me.
But western forces have created a hell of a mess and probably have some moral obligation to do some rebuilding.

The notion that the Taliban will be beaten, though, seems entirely fanciful.

Julia said:

I'd like to see all our troops withdrawn from Afghanistan.
However, to say it's 'not our war' is not completely fair.

Let's remember that the Coalition of the Willing (stupid name) invaded Afghanistan following the 9/11 attack. The rationale for this was supposed to be that Bin Laden was being sheltered there.
How that was allowed to become a reason for bombing the **** out of civilian occupied cities etc is beyond me.
But western forces have created a hell of a mess and probably have some moral obligation to do some rebuilding.

The notion that the Taliban will be beaten, though, seems entirely fanciful.

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Whether one feels or not that the Taliban can be beaten is immaterial at the moment. It is essential that we get our Diggers out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible.

This iteration of the war against medievalism is over. There is no longer a need to stay there.

Despite having suffered a number of baton licks from overzealous coppers during one or twenty anti-Vietnam marches, I am of a mind to take to the streets again, to get our troops home.

Karzai is a double dealing onanist more suited to being the coat boy in a Kings Cross brothel,than President of a state. Whatever result can be anticipated in two years, will be no different next week should we pull out immediately rather than then.

The Afghans should be left to attempt grow their opium and their labours twarted by high level drone destruction of their crops.

Some folk cannot be saved from themselves.

gg

Can’t say I disagree with you, GG. There is no doubt we’re not welcome there and our efforts to build a peace are not appreciated. I fear no matter how long we stay, within a few years of the west pulling out, the government will fall.

As you say, it will then go back to being a training ground for militants planning attacks against the west and supported by the export of drugs. Drone attacks might hamper this, although I don’t know where they’d be launched from, and they will fuel further resentment around the world.

There is no answer that I can see.

I think the biggest mistake was made 30 years ago when the US funded the Afghans resistance to the Russians. If the US had left things alone then, just maybe a more stable Afghanistan would exist now.

The Taliban is the best fighting army the world has ever seen and can't be stopped.
They sent thousands of Russian troop back home as drug addicts and now Russia is still fighting the war as the Taliban sit back and employ kids to do their dirty work.

Aussie troop have this to look forward to:


On the 18th of August 1966 at Long Tan, Vietnam,

D Company of the 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment,

mainly made up of Australian National Servicemen,

and at that time located to support the American Army,

fought a battle against the Viet Cong.

In this action D Company lost 18 men killed, and 24 injured.

The Viet Cong dead numbered in excess of 245.

The Australian lines were never crossed.

The Viet Cong withdrew.







American President Johnson and US Army Staff recognised the achievement

by awarding the Unit Citation of Gallantry on 30th May 1968.

The Award was formally accepted by Queen Elizabeth in 13th June 1968.

Prime Minister John Gorton made the formal presentation of this

American Citation to the Battalion at Lavarack Barracks,

Townsville on 18th August 1968.






On the 31st of March 2010,

D Company of the 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment

were belatedly awarded the Australian version of

"Unit Citation for Gallantry" (UCG),

honouring their extraordinary deeds at Long Tan.



The Government however refused to approve travel payment

for the surviving Unit Members or their families,

including the families of deceased Unit Members,

in order that they be present at the

UCG Presentation Ceremony

presided over by the Governor General of Australia.




In February 2011 the same Government of Australia

footed the Funeral Bill to bury the illegal boat people,

who tragically perished on Christmas Island.

This included flying surviving family illegals and survivors

to and from Sydney and Xmas Island,

accommodating them, etc etc.,

plus a Coach tour of Sydney thrown in.







The Canberra Politburo had waited 45 years

to publicly acknowledge the bravery and sacrifice

of these Sons of Australia,

and then immediately s*#&t on their memory by wetting themselves,

to appease the feelings of boat illegals forcing entry into our country.






Now we witness what can only be described as attempted political face saving,

by this same Government, sponsoring a TV Documentary,

to celebrate our Armed Forces accomplishments at Kapyong, Korea in 1951.

This will see our Prime Minister, and the entire Priministerial Entourage,

fly in a RAAF plane to Korea to mark this 60th Anniversary.



What Bloody Hypocrisy!!!

What a Blatant Affront to the feelings

of our Nation's serving Armed Forces,

Past and Present.

Shame, Shame, Shame,