Aboriginal?

rederob · 4 June 2007

JeSSica WaBBit said:
One other thing to consider....................
I would be asking the elders 'what their plan is for the survival of their people'?

Get rid of all the interlopers that arrived since the 1800s, stole their land, indroduced diseases and did a few other things that not many would be too proud aout.
How's that for a plan!

2020hindsight · 4 June 2007

rederob said:
Get rid of all the interlopers that arrived since the 1800s, stole their land, indroduced diseases and did a few other things that not many would be too proud aout.
How's that for a plan!

You suggesting we'd be the new boat people Rob?
That's ok for you, you probably know someone with a boat lol.

PS I'm sure the Aborigines would have preferred the Brits to the Spanish Conquistadors - http://www.worldtravels.com.au/footsteps_conquistadores.html
But would the French have been better? (La Perouse) http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/exhibitions/laperouse/
or maybe the Dutch (c/- Hartog and co)? http://www.dirkhartogisland.com/history.htm

JeSSica WaBBit · 4 June 2007

Come on Rob, seriously, you can't undo the past, that's exactly what i have been banging on about.

Whats done is done and more to the point, most of those who did it are long gone...................its history mate!

Time to devise a plan and some solutions.

Ok, here goes, try this for a mindset change. Just pretent you can not raise any issue from the past, NONE, so we are only looking forward, focused on the solutions.

Now what would you do?

What are the key things that need to be done to fix this mess up?

Once you identify them the next step is to put the plan into action. Those are solutions and what i expect leaders of a community to address.

Everyone working towards the same goal, which is a better future for Aboriginal people.

Thats how i reckon you have to tackle it.

rederob · 4 June 2007

JeSSica WaBBit said:
Come on Rob, seriously, you can't undo the past, that's exactly what i have been banging on about.

Whats done is done and more to the point, most of those who did it are long gone...................its history mate!

You obviously are not Jewish, nor Palestinian!

anne · 4 June 2007

I agree with jessica Wabbit.

Thirty years of zero improvement in the aboriginal wellbeing is disgraceful and we need to seriously come up with solutions that work.

I've thought about ways to help e.g.

offering better schooling and maybe even boarding school places for those interested,

keeping a tally of aborignials who are successful (however you define that) and trying to lift that number by 20% or whatever each year;

producing DVD documentaries of the stories of "sucessful" aboriginals to inspire young aboriginals,

promoting eco-tourism e.g. funding back-packer-standard accommodation run by aboriginals for tourists to stay in to experience aboriginal culture,etc.

Does anyone know of any successful tax-deductible aboriginal philanthropic projects that are achieving good results? Occassionally you read about good- sounding projects in the paper but then the information's gone.

The government's success to date is woeful. If you were a paranoid person, you might wonder if they were secretly trying to deliberately wipe out the aboriginals through their so-called help!

i do feel bad about how our ancestors treated the aboriginals, but I feel worse about our pathetic efforts to help them today. i cannot believe it is an insoluble problem; I do believe however that no-one in the government has been trying very hard.

Cheers Anne

rederob · 4 June 2007

I am sure John Howard would not agree that things are so bad today.
He's presided over some wonderful changes that have put our indigenous folk on track to become model citizens, owning homes and accepting money in exchange for sending kids to school, and other amazing things.

BIG BWACULL · 4 June 2007

Jessica wabbit this is not toon town, Yes we write our own scripts but their are others to consider in this story, we cant wipe the past because its part of the future, those from the stolen generation that were ripped from their families need to delve into their past to find out who they are and where they came from and make that connection in order to move forward, Just like with anyone going through counselling, do you honestly think these councilers will tell their patients build a bridge and get over it,tell them their crazy, NO, their are better ways of dealing with these issues. So wabbit you mean to tell me that tomorrow I could walk up to anyone bash the S#@T out of them, rob them blind and after the fact, its in the past so it means its ok, Yeah that would hold up in court.
When someone commits murder,adultery or such is it recognised that it was in the past therefore it doesnt count, The offenders are free to go,
"OH you killed that guy Yesterday, sorry my mistake".
Wake up Jessica wabbit, Sorry but sweeping it under the rug just doesnt cut the mustard
By accepting the past "History",
we pave paths to the future

Flying Fish · 5 June 2007

go up north and see what these people are really like. their custom is to beat their wives. they are no hopers and even if noone came to australia they would still be the same bunch of no hopers, i am sorry to say.

2020hindsight · 5 June 2007

Flying Fish said:
go up north and see what these people are really like. their custom is to beat their wives. they are no hopers and even if noone came to australia they would still be the same bunch of no hopers, i am sorry to say.

ff, ever considered it might be paleface firewater that's part of the problem ?

btw, I wouldn't say that to Ernie Dingo if I were you, not that he'd become violent - just that you or I mightn't be able to compare ourselves favourably with him

Spaghetti · 5 June 2007

Flying Fish said:
go up north and see what these people are really like. their custom is to beat their wives. they are no hopers and even if noone came to australia they would still be the same bunch of no hopers, i am sorry to say.

I live up north much of the time. I see no real problem. Downtown Cairns you may see some drunks but easily outnumbered by drunk backpackers. Where my house is is about 15% aboriginal and fewer problems than in Sydney's south west or in Sydney housing commission areas.

I worked years in TNT towers in redfern. Again saw less problems than probably pictured by most.

No doubt problems but, big problems but the biggest problem is how much we overreact. You mention one aboriginal issue and the response is always over whelming. See just the number of responses to this thread. The sheer size of response to a people who represent such a small portion of our total population does suggest we are a very racist society.

In this country we pay wealthy people to have babies but there is no outrage. We give tax relief to those working in remote areas, no outrage. Why do we give this tax relief? because people in remote areas do not get the same level of government services than those in rural areas. It is perhaps cheaper to pay the dole than to build industry, build roads, decent schools, dams, reliable electrical supply. But supply these services we must.

To me forcing people away from their homes is an abuse of basic human rights. Yet this is what we are trying to achieve. If you go to Cape York the roads are dirt and dusty. You cannot find a woolworths or a target. Go to the Islands, say Thursday Island and see if you could afford a house there. I can't. Aborigines have looked after the land to the point their areas are often classified as national parks. So they cannot, even if they wished to develop the land and progress as we have. We don't allow it! The rest of their land we have fenced in. Millions of acres just for cows instead of people.

We are dictating them to keep their culture from 200 years ago or join in ours. No real opportunity for them to evolve their culture to a modernised version because we stop it one way or another. And when cultural identity is taken away we always end up with social problems that can last centuries and lead to wars.

I am going to the Laura festival later this month to join in their festival and celebrate the positives of their culture which most choose to ignore. I feel fortunate there is still this opportunity. I will miss my evening wine as it is a totally drug and alcohol free event, but if they can do it so can I.

startrader · 5 June 2007

I agree 100% with Jessica Wabbit. You have to move forward from where you are and delving into the past and regurgitating all the negative stuff doesn't help one wittle bit. Of course the bloody counsellors don't tell their patients/clients to build a bridge and get over it because they would be pretty redundant wouldn't they if they did that!

Getting back to the original comment on this thread about people looking completely white and anglo calling themselves aboriginal, that is an incorrect statement, and I really don't know how they can say it with a straight face. They are not aboriginal. They may have a very small percentage of aboriginal blood in them but it is just as stupid as me saying I am Irish because 5 generations ago I had a distant relative who was Irish. Anyway, it's probably only a few idiots who do it. If they are proud of their Aboriginal heritage, that's fine, say that and that they are part aboriginal, but to say anything different just sounds, looks and is stupid.

Flying Fish · 5 June 2007

Spaghetti said:
I live up north much of the time. I see no real problem. Downtown Cairns you may see some drunks but easily outnumbered by drunk backpackers. Where my house is is about 15% aboriginal and fewer problems than in Sydney's south west or in Sydney housing commission areas.

I worked years in TNT towers in redfern. Again saw less problems than probably pictured by most.

No doubt problems but, big problems but the biggest problem is how much we overreact. You mention one aboriginal issue and the response is always over whelming. See just the number of responses to this thread. The sheer size of response to a people who represent such a small portion of our total population does suggest we are a very racist society.

In this country we pay wealthy people to have babies but there is no outrage. We give tax relief to those working in remote areas, no outrage. Why do we give this taOk as an enlightment I will also go to the festival. What date is it?x relief? because people in remote areas do not get the same level of government services than those in rural areas. It is perhaps cheaper to pay the dole than to build industry, build roads, decent schools, dams, reliable electrical supply. But supply these services we must.

To me forcing people away from their homes is an abuse of basic human rights. Yet this is what we are trying to achieve. If you go to Cape York the roads are dirt and dusty. You cannot find a woolworths or a target. Go to the Islands, say Thursday Island and see if you could afford a house there. I can't. Aborigines have looked after the land to the point their areas are often classified as national parks. So they cannot, even if they wished to develop the land and progress as we have. We don't allow it! The rest of their land we have fenced in. Millions of acres just for cows instead of people.

We are dictating them to keep their culture from 200 years ago or join in ours. No real opportunity for them to evolve their culture to a modernised version because we stop it one way or another. And when cultural identity is taken away we always end up with social problems that can last centuries and lead to wars.

I am going to the Laura festival later this month to join in their festival and celebrate the positives of their culture which most choose to ignore. I feel fortunate there is still this opportunity. I will miss my evening wine as it is a totally drug and alcohol free event, but if they can do it so can I.

As an enlightenment I will also go to this festival. What date is it? Thanks

Julia · 5 June 2007

rederob said:
I am sure John Howard would not agree that things are so bad today.
He's presided over some wonderful changes that have put our indigenous folk on track to become model citizens, owning homes and accepting money in exchange for sending kids to school, and other amazing things.

Rederob

You are always very sarcastic and critical about any government initiatives.
Let's pretend you are Minister for Aboriginal Affairs.
All your decisions will have the unquestioning support of your Party and that of the Opposition.
You may have an unlimited budget.

What would you do to ameliorate the plight of Aboriginal people?

2020hindsight · 5 June 2007

Here's one of those cartoons in the "Australian" website by Peter Nicholson

There are heaps of other cartoons (Bill Leak's in particular) - but some are a bit more gruesome than this one, with respect to domestic violence etc .
I add one as an example plus another Nicholson

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/index/0,29221,20581,00.html Peter Nicholson makes a new animated political cartoon exclusively for The Australian every few days. The Australian is the first newspaper in the world to have an animated cartoon this close to the news. The animations do for the web what his famous Rubbery Figures puppets did for television, and feature the voices of Paul Jennings. See his latest on the Home Page or on the Peter Nicholson page. You can get a free email alert as soon as each new one comes out. Nicholson's pocket cartoons appear on page one most days, and his large-scale cartoons are in Media and Inquirer. He has won four Walkley Awards, six Quill Awards, and the National Museum cartoon prize twice. He made several bronze portrait busts for the famous Prime Ministers' Avenue in Ballarat. His cartoons and sculptures are in the National Portrait Gallery, the National Museum and the National Gallery of Victoria. For more information, or to find a particular cartoon, visit his website

Btw, in USA, any businesses set up on Indian Reservations pay no tax (or reduced tax?) for a number of years. Just a thought
I used to work with some Aussie Aborigines, and I concede some were inclined to go walkabout for a few days (without notice), but good workers nonetheless - and that was a long time ago.

JeSSica WaBBit · 5 June 2007

'The government's success to date is woeful. If you were a paranoid person, you might wonder if they were secretly trying to deliberately wipe out the aboriginals through their so-called help!'

Hey Anne i reckon you could be onto something with that statement.

Now this is a wittle bit of a conspiracy theory but it goes like this..........

I have been thinking about the land rights issue for a while now and wondering if this was part of a cunning plan by those that didnt have the Aboriginals best interests at heart, in fact i am sure of it.

Think about it, why the hell would you focus your attention for say the last 20 years on Landrights when there are bigger things to worry about?

It doesn't make sense.

Just imagine if that was you, wouldnt you be sorting out education, social problems and so on before you worried about who owned the land?

Like i said earlier, who owns the land is completely irrelevant, the planet belongs to us all. No one ever really owns the land, it BS, something we have made up to make money, its just in your head. To focus your resources and attention on that is just crazy, while your peolpe slip further towards extinction.

Why would you do it, put yourself in that position, it would be the last thing on your mind. Bigger picture issues to sort out first before you get to that one!!

I reckon it was a deliberate destraction, these poor sods just spent probably the most important 20 years or so since the English landed in Oz worring about landrights. Meanwhile, your average Aboriginal has seen almost NO, NONE, ZIPPO, ZILTCH improvement to his/her health, living conditions and general outlook.
I don't know the exact figures but i do have an understanding that not much has changed for a while now.

Its a theory anyway.............................

Spaghetti · 5 June 2007

Flying Fish said:
As an enlightenment I will also go to this festival. What date is it? Thanks

Tickets can be purchased from Quinkan Cultural Centre. $50 a head. This is for 3 days, even you only go one day it is still $50. If you camp or not camp, still $50.

Tickets can be pre-purchased by phone on 07 4060-3457. You can also buy online or at the gates on the day. The online system has had some problem but should be fixed by now.

The festival is from June 22nd to June 24th, 2007.

You can also become acquainted with Quinkan stories and it's related art sites.(boogy man) I believe most sigificant art sites are closed to the general public but some areas are accessible.

Also any excuse to visit Cape York and Cooktown is worth a effort. Maybe do a trip to Elim Beach as well. Hope you enjoy

Spaghetti · 5 June 2007

Sorry, website address for Laura Dance Festival

http://www.quinkancc.com.au/

and select menu option - news and events.

Dukey · 5 June 2007

Flying Fish said:
go up north and see what these people are really like. their custom is to beat their wives. they are no hopers and even if noone came to australia they would still be the same bunch of no hopers, i am sorry to say.

Fish ...

Definition from answers.com...
Vil·i·fi·ca·tion
n.The act of vilifying or defaming; abuse.

Your statement constitutes racial vilification as far as I'm concerned.
...& if you can't think a bit deeper beyond what your eyes see, or what you read in the newspaper - then... ??????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????? well - just don't bother spraying your thoughtless negativity around.

Please heed spaghetti's words - when any group of people has it's culture, family, and pride destroyed - there is a mighty big hole to fill.

I'm currently living in Okinawa - the lowest socio-economic area in Japan. - completely destroyed in WWII (>20% of the population killed) and culturally oppressed by mainland Japan for hundreds of years. Not surprisingly it has the highest rates of poverty, domestic violence and ... you guessed it - ALCOHOLISM in all of Japan.

My belief is that our aboriginal brothers and sisters - coming from an even more 'distant' culture (ie cultural gap between their original culture and ours) - have been even less well equipped to cope with the disasters we have brought upon them. AND this will continue unless we can provide the 'tools' & opportunities for them to help themselves.
'Sit-down' money is a big problem now. For whites and blacks.

Years ago I lived in Mareeba NQ - on the WRONG side of the railway track among many aboriginal families and plenty of dodgy whites too! & yes there were issues with domestic violence there - but I can tell you for 10 days every fortnight there were no ambulance sirens. But on pension day (free grog day) the trouble would start. At the same time - I always treated my neighbors with respect and courtesy and they did the same for me.

On a positive note - the Laura festival sounds great.

Spaghetti · 5 June 2007

I think we should celebrate more what is great about aboriginal culture and possibly acknowledge what we have learned from them in land management rather than continually focus on the negatives.

Anyone, including me, gets a little mentally unhinged when exposed to constant criticism. It is human.

rederob · 5 June 2007

Hi Julia
We have had 11 years of a coalition government with what benefit to Aboriginal Australians?
Before that we had even longer under Labor.
There have been many inquiries and reports, with hundreds of recommendations and ideas that would benefit individuals and communities.
They have been prepared largely in consultation, and by people working closely with the communities concerned.
Very, very few of the ideas and recommendations ever see the light of day.
The solutions needed are complex, yet what is continually offered up are piecemeal tid bits that have appeal to voters and simply band aid the odd fix here and there - nothing too lasting.
Indeed, that's the problem. Some good ideas get to see the light of day and then run out of money, or impetus.
I wouldn't need unlimited funds to put in place what might work better than exists now, but I would need a lot of time.

Aboriginal?

rederob

2020hindsight

JeSSica WaBBit

rederob

anne

rederob

BIG BWACULL

Flying Fish

2020hindsight

Spaghetti

startrader

Flying Fish

Julia

In Memoriam

2020hindsight

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JeSSica WaBBit

Spaghetti

Spaghetti

Dukey

Spaghetti

rederob

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