$5000 to $50000 in two years - let the odyssey begin

[proudwanderer]

Thanks for the reassurance damok.

Were there many people returning it when you were there?

On retrospect, how much value do you think the Smarter Starter Pack is for the beginner? Do you think the pack is very useful? (disregarding the whopping cost of it)

Let's say it was $200 maybe for the SSP as a home study unit - would you buy it? Do you think it is a good package for what it is?

 

[proudwanderer]

Well I returned the SITM trading tactics back today for a refund, and glad I made that decision as $4k is not worth it.

I didn't bother staying for the session. I just said I wanted to return the pack for a refund and filled in the form and left. Surprisingly they did not ask me to give a reason at all, and in fact the guy stated that it was a "no questions asked" refund so I do not need to give a reason.

Looking in the conference room, I saw around at least 100 people in there - imagine that - $400k worth of tuition fees from their "students"

Sure enough the presenter was starting off saying "how succesful" he was as a trader.

It seems to me that this mob seem to really enjoy telling us their great success stories and bragging about David Bowden's great ability for prediction.

Even in the starter pack manual, littered throughout every chapter, David Bowden likes to brag about his great predictions in the late 80s/early 90s. Whilst I can see that a prediction is possbile with the right application of mathematical analysis .... but the prediction can only be accurate in ideal circumstances and many assumptions must be made.

There can be thousands of things that can affect the stock market that cannot be worked into an analytical prediction - war, natural catastraphes, majore accidents to name a few that cannot be predicted.

David Bowden's claim to fame is apparently to have predicted the gulf war low of Jan 1991 6 months before it happened, and well before anyone was aware of Saddam Hessein's activities.

Logically, I cannot fathom how this can be possible. War affects the market - not the other way around.

The only explanation I can come up with is Bowden must've fluked it somehow.

 

[ROE]

was that site not called www.depression2006.com last year???

and the year before that www.depression2005.com?
maybe he will get it right this year if not there is
www.depression2008.com next year

 

[michael_selway]

and the year before that www.depression2005.com?
maybe he will get it right this year if not there is
www.depression2008.com next year

lol yeah can he be more exact please?

thx

MS

 

[crazyjimsmith]

David Bowden's claim to fame is apparently to have predicted the gulf war low of Jan 1991 6 months before it happened, and well before anyone was aware of Saddam Hessein's activities.

I actually knew what to do back then! One week before the war started the market started on its mother of all rallies!

Why did the market start to rally? Well that is the easy part.

War require resources. Commodities boom during wartime. Also when George Bush won his first election there was a lot of controversy and it actually took months of recounting votes to finally determine the actual winner. I remember that time well because I was long on the SPI and I lost a stack of money because the indecision caused the market to tank.

Once it was determined that Bush had won then the market started to go up!. By that time I had lost all my money!

So when the war on Iraq started it was a no brainer for me! Unfortunately I didn't have any money to trade it. It was actually 1 week before the war started that it became clear that the US was going to invade. That was when the market started to rally like hell and I was sitting there watching it all with no money!

There was a quick 3000 points to rip out of the SPI!

I don't know if this Bowden character picked up on the first war but look at the chart on the second war and you will see how the market ran. The second invasion was the one I picked up on.

There was a similar situation at the beginnning of this year when oil hit US50. That told me that the market would run and sure enough the All Ords went from 5600 to 5750 in less than a month! If you had bought some SPI contracts at 5600 you would have done very nicely up to now!

 

[Little1]

I'm new to this forum and just looking at getting back into the market after some time away. Overtraded back then and burned some cash. I'm really interested in the views expressed about the expensive seminars.

We are looking at Universal Wealth Creation's pack by Jamie McIntyre. $4000

Does anyone have any experience with this course or his money back guarantee. I did find some posts going back several years. Perhaps a leopard does not change its spots?

Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

(Chris)

Little1

 

[tech/a]

We are looking at Universal Wealth Creation's pack by Jamie McIntyre. $4000

Does anyone have any experience with this course or his money back guarantee.

When you start seeing unsolicited posts that look like this.

The best $4000 Ive ever invested.
or
The Universal Wealth Creation Package was for me the fast lane to consistent profit.
or
The best value Ive ever seen.----blah blah

You'll have no need to ask.

Ask them for AUDITED trading records for the last 12 mths,the normal response is either a blank look or lots of mumbling.

Seriously if it was as easy as investing $2000-$20000 you'd see forums full of success stories.

You can't buy experience but you can find great trainers who can help you create your own.

 

[professor_frink]

I'm new to this forum and just looking at getting back into the market after some time away. Overtraded back then and burned some cash. I'm really interested in the views expressed about the expensive seminars.

We are looking at Universal Wealth Creation's pack by Jamie McIntyre. $4000

Does anyone have any experience with this course or his money back guarantee. I did find some posts going back several years. Perhaps a leopard does not change its spots?

Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

(Chris)

Little1

I had the misfortune of being given that guys book. 4 hours of my life I'll never be able to get back

<begin sarcasm>
his "share renting" strategy was simply brilliant
<end sarcasm>

Try reading the book and then decide if you think his seminar will be worth the money,but try not to pay for the book- unless you can get it from the $2 bin in a bookstore, it really is that bad.

 

[bunyip]

Every so often one of these self-styled 'wealth creation gurus' puts an ad in the local paper in my area, inviting all and sundry along to a free information evening, during which attendees will supposedly be shown sure-fire tactics for creating personal wealth. I always go along to these evenings, purely for entertainment value and to see who the latest con man is. Invariably these evenings divulge very little useful information......their purpose is simply to get people to come along so the company concerned can put the bite on them to sign up for a course costing thousands of dollars.

Jamie McIntyre of 'Universal Wealth Creation' is probably the same Jamie McIntyre who put on an information evening I attended three or four years ago. At that time he was calling his outfit "21st Century Academy". His spiel was that the current education system left people ill-equipped to invest money in a way that would make them wealthy....what was needed and coincidentally, what he was offering, was a new kind of education that would equip them for the 21st century by teaching them investment strategies aimed at creating personal wealth.
According to him, three years earlier he was so completely broke that he was forced to sleep on the couch in his mates lounge room. Then he learnt the secrets for creating personal wealth.....the very same secrets that he'd teach you himself if you handed over thousands of dollars for his course......and now, just three years later, in his late twenties, he was a multi-millionaire with houses around the world and an impressive share portfolio.

The main wealth creation strategies he talked about were negative gearing into real estate, and "renting out your shares" to create extra income. This 'renting out your shares' sounded to me like writing options on shares, although he didn't mention the word 'options'. After the show, however, I asked him in person if this was writing options, and he admitted it was.

After his presentation finished, the couple of hundred people in attendance were standing around having a cup of coffee, and I noticed quite a few people writing out cheques which were eagerly accepted by the two women at the registration desk.

I was approached by a bloke I knew very well, let's call him Bob, who is a real estate agent and knows all about negative gearing into real estate, but nothing about options. He asked me my opinion of what this Jamie McIntyre was offering. I replied that it was unnecessary to spend a few thousand dollars on this course, as Bob already knew all about real estate investment, and there were plenty of inexpensive books available for learning about options.
Bob seemed to agree with me, but a few minutes later he walked over and started talking to the two women at the registration desk. Next thing, to my total amazement, Bob hauls his cheque book out of his pocket and writes out a cheque!
When I quizzed him about it later he gave a bit of a grin and said "Yeh - they caught me at a weak moment....I wonder if I've wasted my money"!

I rang Bob a couple of months later to see what he thought of the course he bought. He said he'd been too busy to look at it. I rang him every few months over the next year and he always said the same thing - his real estate business had been keeping him so busy that he'd had no time to look at the course he'd bought. Finally he offered to hand the course over to me so I could check it out and tell him what I thought of it.
So I called into his office, picked up a cardboard box containing the course materials, and spent the next week or so going over it.
My opinion was that the course was worth maybe a few hundred dollars instead of the thousands that Bob paid for it. Not that the course content wasn't useful....it's just that there are many good books about real estate investment and options, and it won't cost you more than about a hundred dollars to buy them.

There's obviously big money in signing up hundreds or thousands of people for a course costing thousands of dollars.....no wonder the characters running these courses can claim to be multi-millionaires. No wonder they run around the countryside trying to sign up more and more people.
Don't be duped by these people.....they're invariably attempting to charge you thousands of dollars for information that's readily available just by reading a couple of decent books. In some cases they're attempting to sell you information that's virtually useless and will cause you to lose money.

Bunyip

 

[mswiggs]

Reading Little1's post i thought i might share an experience, which might be beneficial.

Little1, in short the Jamie McIntyre “Universal Wealth Creation's pack” is not worth the $4000 price tag. My brother and father recently purchased this pack, which I expressed my reluctance at; after I went through the content of the pack my suspicions were assured, confirming that the content of the pack was inadequate and that the $4000 cost was unlikely to be recovered by implementing strategies outlined throughout the pack.

However, I have had several debates with my father regarding, what is the best avenue for people to learn how to become financially free. I make it clear to him that these seminars are grossly over-priced, that the content of these packages generally uses strategies which are presented in a misleading fashion and does not reflect the true “real-time” performance (e.g. covered calls, another topic which provides hours of “discussion” in the home), they do not show how to implement the strategy fully (from identifying the trade/opportunity, implementing, following it up), usually designed as the opener to more expensive packages(which also fail to properly educate the student) and probably strongest reason is that people come away emotionally imbalanced meaning that their expectations are raised beyond reality and thinking that they have the magic formula to become rich (there are exceptions, some seminars advocate the opposite, i.e. low expectations, allow a long period of time for this work, etc which is the mentality I encourage, as the content required to be learn't takes a long time and you need a mentality, that allows you to “endure” the ups and downs throughout the journey).

Now my father’s (and brothers) response was that where do we start? I would say get on the net look at these forums, their response would be along the lines “Ahh its too hard” “too messy” “too confusing” etc etc etc etc etc etc (sigh) and I knew then that it wasn’t their lack of knowledge that is preventing them from achieving what they want but their attitudes. We are all human and everyone has certain behaviours and beliefs (another one is that my brother reckons he needs to listen rather than read things to be effective, but amazingly he can read technical books on cars for hours! Which demonstrates this has more to do with beliefs and behaviours rather than his genetic predisposition) which hinder our ability to achieve what we want.

So after discussing for hours which is the best route to learn I reluctantly said that I guess it is ok to purchase this package. My decision is based on them making a start, basically hoping by them going to these seminars that they will develop an interest strong enough that will overcome their resistance to exploring the web and quality books. Now some would say your going to pay $4000 for that? Well I guess, the answer is yes. If they don’t go their interest will dwindle or they will keep reading over and over the inadequate library of books at home, over-analysing the content while trying to see if there were any “hidden formulas” that were missed and wont get any closer to the end goal. So now they have gone and I have condemned the price tag set on the package, but now I just give them a gentle reminder of what is on the web and how much they don’t know.

Although this post is long to answer a simple question about Jamie’s package, the idea of this post is to highlight that what is hindering people the most isn’t their lack of knowledge or access to it, especially with the dawn of the internet and the magnitude of information it provides, but the necessary emotional development and emotional support to facilitate them through the journey. The underlying concepts required to mechanically trade for example are relatively simple, but this simplicity is often over-looked, or the importance of these concepts isn’t fully appreciated or only become appreciated once a large sum of their account is missing.

Anyway good luck with your journey to financial freedom (mayb your already there)

 

[tech/a]

Ah

The power of the Testimonial!

 

[Little1]

Thanks Tech/a and Professor Fink,

I've read heaps of posts today and I thank you for taking the time to post so much on the web, Tech/a. I now have some good tips on where to improve my education and learn about the psychology as opposed to the methodology, without wasting lots of $$$. I plan to start with Adaptive Analysis by Nick Radge.

 

[sails]

.... I plan to start with Adaptive Analysis by Nick Radge. ...

Smart move, Little1

We have been sucked into a few expensive trading courses over the years, however have learned far more from experienced traders freely sharing their knowledge in forums such as this one, including lots of time spent in research. Also lots of testing of ideas to find out what strategies, time frames, etc to suit one's personality the best.

In my experience, there is usually nothing wrong with what these types of courses teach (albeit usually very basic info) - it's the huge price tags for such basic info that is unacceptable IMO.

 

[tech/a]

There is so much out there that often you find people getting
Analysis Paralysis

I guess being involved in Technical analysis for 12 yrs gives one an idea of whats padding and whats really beneficial to you as a trader.

A vast majority of what could be called Mainstream analysis both Fundamantal and Technical --- in my view --- has little value.

Those that stand apart are experts in a particular field which gives them an edge.
You can be an expert and still not return consistent profit as you dont know how to run the business of trading.

Combine the 2 and you'll enjoy success.

 

[proudwanderer]

I now have some good tips on where to improve my education and learn about the psychology as opposed to the methodology, without wasting lots of $$$. I plan to start with Adaptive Analysis by Nick Radge.

I was initially unsure about whether or not to take the SITM course (also costing $4000) but now am glad I made the decision to return it for a refund.

I also plan to start with Adaptive Analysis by Nick Radge as well as Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas

it's just that there are many good books about real estate investment and options, and it won't cost you more than about a hundred dollars to buy them.

Bunyip

Bunyip,

What books would you recommend?

 

[tayser]

heh, funnily enough, I came across this forum in the aftermath of researching whether or not to outlay $8k for a hometrader 'membership'.

Guess what I'm not doing

 

[rozella]

I have read the 8 pages of this thread & have been reluctant to post as it does not seem that anyone wants to actually post their experiences to reach $50000 from $5000

I have been asked many times about trading the dividend strategy with CFDs & my answer was always I could not make it work sufficiently to persevere with them, anyway my experience with them was about 3 years ago with a market maker provider. However, since the popularity of CFDs since, I started again in August last year with DMA provider.

I am not one to spend a great deal of time testing & paper trading so decided to use real cash in real time & open a CFD account with the minimum $5000 to ha-ha turn it into $50000

I decided to keep 40% as a buffer & bought 4 x $15000 stocks in the S&P/ASX 20 i.e. utilising $3000 & $2000 as a buffer

After some trial & plenty of errors, I managed to reduce the pot to about $3700

CFDs are quick & not for the inexperienced, so after some thought, I set up a spreadsheet livened it up with a DDE link showing profit after interest & commission as it happens, with a column showing TRUE/FALSE when a stoploss is breached.

I only trade with the S&P/ASX 20 for the 3% & 5% margins & use a stoploss on each stock of 1.4% (reasonably tight)

As of close yesterday the account has risen to $22,418 which is very pleasing in 198 calendar days

Initial capital= 5000.00
trading profits = 20994.45 (realised & unrealised)
plus dividends = 2928.15
less interest = (4871.00)
less commission = (1633.81
portfolio value = 22417.79 as at close 23rd Feb 07

purchases = 55
wins = 33 after interest & comm
losses = 11 after interest & comm
open = 11

average win = 610.85
average loss = 474.87
(there is 1 large loss of 1231.28 that lifted the average loss when I was trying buy & hold without activating stoploss....don't do this anymore)

average days open = 27.59
return on capital = 348.36% in 198 days
free equity = 13887.51
encumbered equity = 8530.27

Stocks held atm ANZ, NAB, WBC, SUN, CBA, AMP, FGL, WOW, WDC, BXB & WES

WES was purchased yesterday & took profits on QBE, BHP & CGJ.

The initial purchase was 4 stocks x $15000 approx
now 1x $15000 & 10 x $18000 approx

I only trade stocks from S&P/ASX 20 & when all 20 stocks are being traded, I will lift the purchase price. There is enough cash atm to buy at least 4 more $18000 stocks staying clear of my 40% of portfolio buffer.

The market has been very good since I started this portfolio, however, I want to see how far I can take it before it starts to slow up.

I don't think it is impossible to reach the $50000 target & also think it is easier with bluechip stocks than the el cheapo stocks.

 

[CanOz]

I have read the 8 pages of this thread & have been reluctant to post as it does not seem that anyone wants to actually post their experiences to reach $50000 from $5000

I have been asked many times about trading the dividend strategy with CFDs & my answer was always I could not make it work sufficiently to persevere with them, anyway my experience with them was about 3 years ago with a market maker provider. However, since the popularity of CFDs since, I started again in August last year with DMA provider.

I am not one to spend a great deal of time testing & paper trading so decided to use real cash in real time & open a CFD account with the minimum $5000 to ha-ha turn it into $50000

I decided to keep 40% as a buffer & bought 4 x $15000 stocks in the S&P/ASX 20 i.e. utilising $3000 & $2000 as a buffer

After some trial & plenty of errors, I managed to reduce the pot to about $3700

CFDs are quick & not for the inexperienced, so after some thought, I set up a spreadsheet livened it up with a DDE link showing profit after interest & commission as it happens, with a column showing TRUE/FALSE when a stoploss is breached.

I only trade with the S&P/ASX 20 for the 3% & 5% margins & use a stoploss on each stock of 1.4% (reasonably tight)

As of close yesterday the account has risen to $22,418 which is very pleasing in 198 calendar days

Initial capital= 5000.00
trading profits = 20994.45 (realised & unrealised)
plus dividends = 2928.15
less interest = (4871.00)
less commission = (1633.81
portfolio value = 22417.79 as at close 23rd Feb 07

purchases = 55
wins = 33 after interest & comm
losses = 11 after interest & comm
open = 11

average win = 610.85
average loss = 474.87
(there is 1 large loss of 1231.28 that lifted the average loss when I was trying buy & hold without activating stoploss....don't do this anymore)

average days open = 27.59
return on capital = 348.36% in 198 days
free equity = 13887.51
encumbered equity = 8530.27

Stocks held atm ANZ, NAB, WBC, SUN, CBA, AMP, FGL, WOW, WDC, BXB & WES

WES was purchased yesterday & took profits on QBE, BHP & CGJ.

The initial purchase was 4 stocks x $15000 approx
now 1x $15000 & 10 x $18000 approx

I only trade stocks from S&P/ASX 20 & when all 20 stocks are being traded, I will lift the purchase price. There is enough cash atm to buy at least 4 more $18000 stocks staying clear of my 40% of portfolio buffer.

The market has been very good since I started this portfolio, however, I want to see how far I can take it before it starts to slow up.

I don't think it is impossible to reach the $50000 target & also think it is easier with bluechip stocks than the el cheapo stocks.

Well done mate! I enjoy reading your posts in the dividend thread. I had no idea you started with only 5k.

I started with 5k too, but added capital every month as i got paid to the total of 25k. My trading account is worth 37k now. I've paid out 4.5k in brokerage , yup...i know....and i took a 5k loss when i first started. I'm still working on my scorecard...i know slack! I could not have done this in a bear market, no doubt.

Good luck mate.

Cheers,

 

[bunyip]

I was initially unsure about whether or not to take the SITM course (also costing $4000) but now am glad I made the decision to return it for a refund.

I also plan to start with Adaptive Analysis by Nick Radge as well as Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas




Bunyip,

What books would you recommend?

Do a Google search for Margaret Lomas.....I found her real estate books to be worthwhile.

As for options books...one of my US contacts tells me that 'The Options Strategist' by Larry McMillan, is the bible of options trading.
However, there's so much options info freely available on the net that you might want to avail yourself of it, rather than buy any books.

Bunyip

 

[damok]

Great post there rozella, excellent to see someone with some positive news!!!

I'm also a avid fan of spreadsheets to do a lot of work for me. I'm just wondering how the 'DDE' links work. Would love to implement something like that.

I haven't started my trading yet as I moved overseas soon after my initial posts and have had very limited internet access. Now I have my internet account, commsec account and a half decent spreadsheet to start my trading. I have managed to memorize the SITM system (don't dob on me) and will be basically applying it. I plan to trade in normal ASX200 stocks for about two years until I feel nice and confident, then apply the same system to CFD's.

Will let you know how I get on.

Cheers,
damok.