$5000 to $50000 in two years - let the odyssey begin

[nioka]

maybe a bit of proof provided via trading statements etc would maybe shut these buggers up once for all .....
.

I may just do that. Personally I couldn't give a proverbial if I am believed or not. The plan is there for others to follow if they see fit. It works. It has no risk apart from possible failure of the initial investment but that is no more than any other purchase.

The program is;

1. Find two or more stocks with similar interests.
2. Examine the relative SP.
3. Set relative values.
4. Keep swap trading for better value.
5. Only trade when you can stay invested.
6. Hope for a GFC to create volatility.
7. Allow for brokerage.
8. For tax reasons have two completely different accounts once a reasonable level of value is established. A trading account for the swaps and an invesment account for holding the gains made.
9. Don't put all the eggs in one basket. Stay invested in all or both.
10. Choose fundamentally sound stocks or take more risk with specs.
As I see it the ADI, EKA and AUT situation is still valid with reasonable variations between the relative values. But DYOR I'm often wrong.

 

[nunthewiser]

Yes i have no idea why this bunch of cynical buggers are having a hard time believing this amazing story .... no proof needed .

We should believe everything posted on these pages as we are all obviously great people and why would anyone in there right mind use these forums to try and impress others with tales of grandeur.

well done on hitting every swing with perfection over the last few years , its a skill im yet to master even after 15 years of this game. ... Perhaps you should start a blog for the next set.

Dunno why you other guys are thinking this story is a crock of hogwash ..its the internet for petes sake . why would anyone tell a tall story ?

 

[nioka]

Yep that's how i see it...every trade would have to be an almost instant winner, a 4 year mistake free run...i call shenanigans.

Every trade IS an instant winner. A trade is only made when the alternative stock is there readily available to swap one for the other with advantage. Not mistake completely free as sometimes a buy or sell order can be taken out while you are placing your order. But a 90%+ mistake free deal and mistakes were never costly.

 

[nunthewiser]

Sorry Nioka but after reading some of these cynical buggers comments its obvious that they think your story is maybe full of holes and outrageous claims ........ I think they may definately need proof to shut them up .......... might be a good idea mate .let them really have egg on the face ......

tut tut i dont know cynicism and the internet just got no place in the modern world in my impressed opinion.

 

[So_Cynical]

nioka if we look at the comparison chart i cant for the life of me see anything other than a string of near perfect trades to achieve the 9450>% return you claim...every time ADI rose above the others you would have to magically be on it - or switch to ADI, and every down leg go to cash and stay there...like magic.

And then im struggling to see more than 8 or 10 clear in and outs, and that don't = 9450>%
at 10% return per trade that would require what 189 winning trades? my mind is going numb with the maths.

no my brains gone.
~

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

If you don't like people not believing you, just post proof. Simple really. If you do and its legit, you are proven correct and they shut their traps, if you don't, they have every reason in the world to think you are full of BS. So it'll sort it out either way, I really don't know why this happens every time.

 

[brty]

Nioka,

For tax reasons have two completely different accounts once a reasonable level of value is established. A trading account for the swaps and an invesment account for holding the gains made.

Putting things in 2 separate accounts does not avoid ones tax liabilities. Are you claiming that you have not declared the profits from the various sales as you have gone along your journey?? Tax evasion is just plain dumb, they will get you eventually, with penalties.

brty

 

[nioka]

Nioka,



Putting things in 2 separate accounts does not avoid ones tax liabilities. Are you claiming that you have not declared the profits from the various sales as you have gone along your journey?? Tax evasion is just plain dumb, they will get you eventually, with penalties.

brty

I don't avoid tax at all but by having separate trading and investment accounts the tax is different. Trading profits are straight profits and not capital gains, capital gains are made on investment accounts. Ring the tax office and talk to them about it. I did and my trading and investing is ok with them. I pay my due tax. I'm happy to pay tax, it means I made a profit.

I'm finished with this thread. Some are too dumb to understand what the program does and how it does it. Others are too critical to and disbelieving to fully research the possibilities. These forums are to provide information. I've done that. Maybe one day one person will say thanks for helping them do the same as I have done. Believe it or not believe that is your option I couldnt give a ^#*%.

I should add it is money made trading after tax that is transferred to the investment account that is used to purchase script that is held as an investment. eg. I could sell ADI and with some of the proceeds buy EKA, transfer the balance of the proceeds to the investment account and purchase more EKA.

I really do try and think outside the square.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

I don't avoid tax at all but by having separate trading and investment accounts the tax is different. Trading profits are straight profits and not capital gains, capital gains are made on investment accounts. Ring the tax office and talk to them about it. I did and my trading and investing is ok with them. I pay my due tax. I'm happy to pay tax, it means I made a profit.

I'm finished with this thread. Some are too dumb to understand what the program does and how it does it. Others are too critical to and disbelieving to fully research the possibilities. These forums are to provide information. I've done that. Maybe one day one person will say thanks for helping them do the same as I have done. Believe it or not believe that is your option I couldnt give a ^#*%.

I really do try and think outside the square.

Why get your knickers in a knot!?

Just SHOW PROOF and it all goes away, its really not that hard. But you would rather sit here and have a cry because people don't believe you. One way to shut them up isn't there. FFS

 

[nioka]

Why get your knickers in a knot!?

Just SHOW PROOF and it all goes away, its really not that hard. But you would rather sit here and have a cry because people don't believe you. One way to shut them up isn't there. FFS

To show proof would identify myself. The numbers of ADI name me in the "top 20". I dont cry. I just dont give a #^*%. (Others who post here that are in the top 20 know the story.)

This IS the end of the matter.

 

[nunthewiser]

Hans Christian Anderson has left the building

 

[Bushman]

To show proof would identify myself. The numbers of ADI name me in the "top 20". I dont cry. I just dont give a #^*%. (Others who post here that are in the top 20 know the story.)

This IS the end of the matter.

Here is the Top 20 as at 1 April 2010:

Rank Shareholder Total Units
1 ARC Energy Limited 47,864,000
2 Mr Alexander Forcke 3,000,000
3 ANZ Nominees Limited <Cash Income A/C> 1,912,055
4 Mr Dallas John William Allman + Mrs Judith Dawn Allman <D J W & J D Allman S/F A/C> 1,750,000
5 Riley Group 1,742,779
6 Streitberg Family 1,705,000
7 Mrs Sharon Teresa Lydeamore 1,480,000
8 Mr Leigh David Kalazich 1,470,563
9 Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 1,375,276
10 Paleryder Pty Ltd <Palethorpe Super Fund A/C> 1,300,000
11 J J N A Super Pty Ltd <Chatterton Family Super A/C> 1,252,446
12 Taperslee Pty Ltd <Major Family A/C> 1,114,219
13 Lorilaw Pty Ltd <Windsor Hotel A/C> 1,000,000
14 Mr Ashok Verma 1,000,000
15 Mr Thomas Brian Cannon 980,000
16 Madeiros Pty Ltd <Visser Super Fund A/C> 940,000
17 Ms Allison Wilkinson 900,000
18 J J N A Pty Ltd 847,612
19 Mrs Peta Major + Mr Andrew Major <Major Family S/F A/C> 836,400
20 Mr Paul Nagle + Mrs Jacqueline Terri Nagle <PJ Nagle S/F A/C> 824,000
TOTAL 73,294,350

So ruling out the directors, institutional investors and SMSF, you must be one of:
8 Mr Leigh David Kalazich 1,470,563
14 Mr Ashok Verma 1,000,000
15 Mr Thomas Brian Cannon 980,000

Lol. Given your trading system is unlikely to produce a rounded holding of 1m or 980k, I am guessing you are Mr Leigh David Kalazich.

This game is good fun.

Well done on your trading success by the way. I would have thought there would be plenty of oil JVs that would throw up similar trading patterns.

 

[nulla nulla]

bugger! They've spelt my name wrong again.

 

[brty]

nioka,

I do understand the difference between trading profits and holding for investment to get the CGT exemption. However to get the CGT exemption you need to have held the investment for more than 12 months. By constantly changing in and out of a stock over a period of 3 years, the tax you will be liable for would be trading profits. Only shares you have kept for more than 12 months would qualify for the CGT exemption.

Just because someone from the tax office told you something different does not make it so. Only a private ruling from said office is iron clad. I suggest you go and chat with a good tax accountant.

On a different matter, can I apologise for others rudeness in this thread. You probably should have never put up the figure of your gains as there is this thing called the tall poppy syndrome that will always be used to drag successful people down, especially on something called Aussie.......

brty

 

[vincent191]

I didn't know that if you held on to the shares for >12 months you get CGT exemption???

 

[vincent191]

You guys can fight over whoever you want to be. I just want to be "Deputy Commissioner of Taxation." I am not greedy, just a Deputy will do, you guys can be the Commissioner.

 

[nioka]

nioka,

I do understand the difference between trading profits and holding for investment to get the CGT exemption. However to get the CGT exemption you need to have held the investment for more than 12 months. By constantly changing in and out of a stock over a period of 3 years, the tax you will be liable for would be trading profits. Only shares you have kept for more than 12 months would qualify for the CGT exemption.

Just because someone from the tax office told you something different does not make it so. Only a private ruling from said office is iron clad. I suggest you go and chat with a good tax accountant.
brty

I'll break my determination to retire from this discussion to clear up this point. I have a ruling from the tax office and you will note I have advised others to do the same.

The shares are accumulated in a seperate INVESTMENT account that is not traded. The TRADING account holds sufficient shares to trade the imbalances. The trading account deposits/transfers money for the investment account to purchase shares for the accumulation. No sales have been made from the investment account portfolio which operates as a retirement fund. It is a completely separate broker and bank account. The investment account will be entitled to Capital gains tax concessions.

I hope I have explained this OK.

 

[trainspotter]

Thanks for clearing that up nioka. Will send the info to my accountant for an explanation as well, keep up the good work on the % RoR !!

 

[nioka]

Remember this thread. Worth going back in time and seeing how it played out.

The thread was an inspiration for me and i decided to see if I could make it work. My results have astounded even myself.

I chose ADI, at the time a spec stock and bought 10,000 shares for under $4,000. Over time and without adding any additional outside capital into the project I have turned that investment into one worth $378,726.23 as at yesterday. This has been done by trading swaps between ADI,EKA and AUT who are three partners in the same project. Their SP relative to their interest changes almost on a daily basis and with each trade I ended up with a bigger interest in the overall project.

So I thank Damok for promoting the idea and AgentM for his informative posts on ADI which I have used as research on the project. Also the GFC made it all possible.

The critics of this post may be interested to know that recent events have added another $200,000 plus to the tally.

Now I'll try and repeat the result. I have invested $5,000 in BUL at 16c. I'll keep you informed along the way. I may leave it as a single investment with no trading. I may trade in and out. I may find a comparable share and do swap trades. I will post any trades.

 

[sleepy]

Can someone please explain what a swap trade is?
And how it works ... Im confused!