Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

[Value Collector]

Maybe you don't believe in religious freedom, and maybe many other here don't either. If so then people here don't believe in democracy but think another system would be better for everybody which allows religion to be controlled. Don't be ashamed to confess your views everyone, and we can't change the results anyway.

You know one of the amendments in the democratic US is about religious freedom – ie don't make any laws that interfere with a person's ability to practice their religion. But they're ignoring that (not trump, but Obama didn't believe in it). They too are drifting away from democracy.

What about the religions that are ok with gay marriage, they should be allowed to marry gays shouldn't they??? or do you only want to apply religious freedom to the things that your religion agrees with?

Religious freedom also means you can't force your religion on others, So you can't prevent me eating bacon just because you are muslim, and you can't prevent gay marriage just because you are christian.

No one is going to force Christians to have a gay marriage.

 

[PZ99]

Maybe you don't believe in religious freedom, and maybe many other here don't either. If so then people here don't believe in democracy but think another system would be better for everybody which allows religion to be controlled. Don't be ashamed to confess your views everyone.

You know one of the amendments in the democratic US is about religious freedom – ie don't make any laws that interfere with a person's ability to practice their religion. But they're ignoring that (not trump, but Obama didn't believe in it). They too are drifting away from democracy.

How is the US drifting away from democracy? Last year they used the democratic process to change their Government. Their worldwide propagation of democracy has made them a nuclear target for an irreligious communist state which demonstrates your erroneous connection between democracy and religion. They are two different unrelated things.

If SSM does happen will you accept it because it was voted for democratically?

I did ask that question to another religious member in this thread. No response so far

I don't have a problem with religious freedom, but religious domination is evil in my book.

 

[Value Collector]

U don't seem to have any empathy for religious people who would be faced with terrible problems..

Can you give me an example of a problem that religious people would have?

How would a lesbian couple on the other side of town obtaining a marriage licence affect any religious person?

 

[basilio]

How did people now in their 60's/70's/80's grow up as homosexuals in the Australia of the 50's/60's ? There was a seniors LGTI ball in Melbourne recently as part of Senior Citizens week and an article outlines the many stories of life as an outsider.

And the piccies are to die for...!

I've seen it all': LGBTI elders come back out at the ball
In the midst of Australia’s same-sex marriage survey, a glorious night in Melbourne celebrates those who came of age when being ‘in the closet’ was all but compulsory

by Gay Alcorn

They arrived in sequins and feathers, six-inch heels and pancake makeup. They arrived, too, in T-shirts and hiking boots, frocking up for no one. There were walking sticks and wheelchairs, a blind man with a guide dog, a woman with a shirt saying “This is what an old lesbian looks like”. This was their night, and they’d come as they please.

In the midst of a survey on same-sex marriage that feels to many like a judgment on the equality of gays and lesbians, here was a night to celebrate those who had come of age when “in the closet” was all but compulsory.

Here were people who remembered when homosexuality was illegal, when transgender people were shunned, who had come out when it was an act of courage, who had nursed the dying through the scourge of Aids.

They arrived in sequins and feathers, six-inch heels and pancake makeup. They arrived, too, in T-shirts and hiking boots, frocking up for no one. There were walking sticks and wheelchairs, a blind man with a guide dog, a woman with a shirt saying “This is what an old lesbian looks like”. This was their night, and they’d come as they please.

In the midst of a survey on same-sex marriage that feels to many like a judgment on the equality of gays and lesbians, here was a night to celebrate those who had come of age when “in the closet” was all but compulsory.

In the midst of a survey on same-sex marriage that feels to many like a judgment on the equality of gays and lesbians, here was a night to celebrate those who had come of age when “in the closet” was all but compulsory.

Here were people who remembered when homosexuality was illegal, when transgender people were shunned, who had come out when it was an act of courage, who had nursed the dying through the scourge of Aids.

Humour and outrageousness have always accompanied resistance. Comedian Gerry Connolly, resplendent as Queen Elizabeth, opened proceedings with “my fellow Queens, lesbians, faghags and enlightened hets”.

She noted that in November, she and Prince Philip will have been married for 70 years and if “Lizzie can marry, lezzies can marry”. Indeed, LGBTI truly stood for “Let God Bless the Queen, Intermittently”.

Cowboys in pink hats and tight shorts strutted their stuff. Carlotto, a “74-year-old boiler”, said she had fought for equality since opening the cabaret show Les Girls in 1963. “I’ve seen it all,” she sang, “and I’m still here.”

There was poignancy throughout, a tender acknowledgment that amid the diversity, all of them had had publicly “come out” at some point, painfully or otherwise. The shadow of the same-sex marriage survey was the thread, the latest skirmish in a long struggle for equality.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/10/ive-seen-it-all-lgbti-elders-come-back-out-at-the-ball

 

[Tisme]

And you'll find many, many stories of people growing up with gay parents who loved them and their upbringing.
And if you want to really get into it, there are a million, million people who have despised their straight parents for any number of reasons. But it would be pretty dumb to use those types of stories to abuse married people ?

how can you have SS gay parents? There's no such thing, at best only one can be a true parent.

 

[Tisme]

Yes, "if" they "make a nuisance of themselves".

That if was more a when back in the day.

seeing as you like to mix USA with Oz, did you know blacks in USA are ~12.5% but they commit over 80% of detected crime? That's a lot of licence based on "oh woe is me".

 

[Tisme]

. It is simply that they don't have the god given right to demand that the rest of the community agree with them. .

but you do?

 

[Tisme]

Can you give me an example of a problem that religious people would have?

How would a lesbian couple on the other side of town obtaining a marriage licence affect any religious person?

You know that revulsion feeling when your stomach goes all involuntarily bilious...well that's how real heterosexuals feel when they are ambushed by confronting images of, especially males sucking face. It is to do with the meagre proportion of the population who carry the survival of the species gene I'm fairly sure.... perhaps the 80/20 rule?

 

[wayneL]

but you do?

I just love the unintentionally ironies presented by our bas.

 

[basilio]

That if was more a when back in the day.

seeing as you like to mix USA with Oz, did you know blacks in USA are ~12.5% but they commit over 80% of detected crime? That's a lot of licence based on "oh woe is me".

Your a real campaigner arn't you Tisme ? If there is something created by some xuckwit to beat up blacks, gays, browns, Muslims or anyone who isn't a fossilised old white xart you into it like flies on xshit.

I have no idea where you found that quote on blacks committing 80% of detected crime in US. I could spend a ridiculous amout of time showing the convictions for "walking while black", or "driving while black", or being killed while black.

But for the sake of reality lets stick to facts that prove how righteously ignorant you are.

Do Blacks Really Commit the Most Crimes?

“What demographic commits the most crime?” asked my professor.

White people, I thought. I knew the answer, but I was hesitant to speak. I usually am in my political theory classes, choosing instead to absorb the discussion. I also assumed it was such a simple question that I wouldn’t need to answer it aloud because someone else would.

And soon after, a hand to my right rose.

“Blacks,” he said. And he sounded so sure.

I was almost sad for the kid, but you probably wouldn’t know it from how hard I was laughing at him. I didn’t mean to; it was how sure he was that tickled me.

Poor kid, I remember thinking because I understood that his answer was not from left field. It was a truth that he’d been taught, whether from the media, his upbringing, or any number of sources where minorities are painted as violent people.

He would be shocked to know that white people commit the most crimes. And to be perfectly honest it’s a trick question that I wouldn’t ask anyone. There are so many small factors that play a role in the correct answer.

But here’s the rundown:

White people commit the most crimes when you look at sheer numbers.
https://talkback4teens.com/2013/08/29/do-blacks-really-commit-the-most-crimes/

 

[Value Collector]

You know that revulsion feeling when your stomach goes all involuntarily bilious...well that's how real heterosexuals feel when they are ambushed by confronting images of, especially males sucking face. It is to do with the meagre proportion of the population who carry the survival of the species gene I'm fairly sure.... perhaps the 80/20 rule?

How would allowing ssm marriage affect that, you know gays are going to kiss regardless.

 

[luutzu]

That if was more a when back in the day.

seeing as you like to mix USA with Oz, did you know blacks in USA are ~12.5% but they commit over 80% of detected crime? That's a lot of licence based on "oh woe is me".

They can't make laws penalising "crimes" blacks (and other undesirables) "are known for"?

They don't focus their policing on certain ghettos but avoid proper communities?

Despite what you might have been taught, Justice ain't blind.

One guy went to prison for all the frauds, theft and general White-collar crimes from the GFC.

Hmmm... I wonder why. Hmmm... Wall St guys are not known for unethical conducts, and they never sniff any drugs and powder either. This is shown in the crime stats, in black and white.

 

[Wysiwyg]

There are no messed-up children from straight parents? No broken homes or abusive parenting by straight and God-fearing men's man/mousy women?

You don't believe a child having a father and mother natural upbringing?

 

[grah33]

How is the US drifting away from democracy? Last year they used the democratic process to change their Government. Their worldwide propagation of democracy has made them a nuclear target for an irreligious communist state which demonstrates your erroneous connection between democracy and religion. They are two different unrelated things.

If SSM does happen will you accept it because it was voted for democratically?

I did ask that question to another religious member in this thread. No response so far

I don't have a problem with religious freedom, but religious domination is evil in my book.

Religious freedom is the hallmark of a true democracy... Recently trump overturned some laws from obama , his reason that he still believes in the first amendment – religious freedom (the amendments are like the 10 commandments for democracy). Obama doesn't anymore and shocked many people when he made some changes a while ago forcing things from religious people etc.. It's okay PZ if you also don't believe in true democracy (if you think the cake baker should be compelled to bake that cake than you don't agree with the first amendment), so long as you know that. That is why i'm saying many people here are unknowingly looking for another kind of political system. People have changed , they want something different that they believe will be better for them.

If ssm goes through of course i'd accept it – we'd have to. But there will be many pious people who just won't take pics of e.g. gay weddings. They're likely quit their jobs. And so they should, because everyone should do the right thing, which is a function of what that person believes, even if they believe something that is made up such as a munchkin god. This is the dark side to the gay marriage thing – the side that will cause suffering to other peoples lives. I think many gay people wouldn't want that if they knew. The whole point of the first amendment is to have no laws that cause such problems. You don't have to subscribe to that (to believe in the first amendment or religious freedom), I don't think VC does either. But you guys gotta know that you don't believe in true democracy but something else. True democracy has religious freedom. Dictators control the practice of religion.

VC: regards the bacon example. I agree. But we also have laws that exempt jews/muslim from doing that which makes them feel guilty. e.g. a muslim isn't required to cook/serve bacon if it makes them feel guilty. So to they shouldn't be forced to bake a cake with pork on it, or gay figurines on top of the cake.

 

[SirRumpole]

If ssm goes through of course i'd accept it – we'd have to. But there will be many pious people who just won't take pics of e.g. gay weddings. They're likely quit their jobs.

They could just say "sorry, I already have a booking on that day, try Jim down the road...".

 

[Tisme]

Your a real campaigner arn't you Tisme ? If there is something created by some xuckwit to beat up blacks, gays, browns, Muslims or anyone who isn't a fossilised old white xart you into it like flies on xshit.

I have no idea where you found that quote on blacks committing 80% of detected crime in US. I could spend a ridiculous amout of time showing the convictions for "walking while black", or "driving while black", or being killed while black.

But for the sake of reality lets stick to facts that prove how righteously ignorant you are.

Do Blacks Really Commit the Most Crimes?

“What demographic commits the most crime?” asked my professor.

White people, I thought. I knew the answer, but I was hesitant to speak. I usually am in my political theory classes, choosing instead to absorb the discussion. I also assumed it was such a simple question that I wouldn’t need to answer it aloud because someone else would.

And soon after, a hand to my right rose.

“Blacks,” he said. And he sounded so sure.

I was almost sad for the kid, but you probably wouldn’t know it from how hard I was laughing at him. I didn’t mean to; it was how sure he was that tickled me.

Poor kid, I remember thinking because I understood that his answer was not from left field. It was a truth that he’d been taught, whether from the media, his upbringing, or any number of sources where minorities are painted as violent people.

He would be shocked to know that white people commit the most crimes. And to be perfectly honest it’s a trick question that I wouldn’t ask anyone. There are so many small factors that play a role in the correct answer.

But here’s the rundown:

White people commit the most crimes when you look at sheer numbers.
https://talkback4teens.com/2013/08/29/do-blacks-really-commit-the-most-crimes/

I just state facts as the basis of my arguments Bas. You know that, so it's pointless using anecdotal and subjective opinions to counter them

 

[Tisme]

How would allowing ssm marriage affect that, you know gays are going to kiss regardless.

Because we are going to have a barrage of ABC sponsored marriages complete with the sickening sight of grown men performing unnatural, revolting perversion of heterosexual mating practices. That you find joy in it speaks of your level of acceptance being extraordinarily less than mine, but it doesn't make you right.

I'm sure there's something in that corrupted morality kernal of yours that makes you squeal like stuck pig, so you know the feeling.

 

[Tisme]

They could just say "sorry, I already have a booking on that day, try Jim down the road...".

Yes "I just contracted a case of noro virus" should work the trick. No homo wants a case on his wedding night

 

[Tisme]

They can't make laws penalising "crimes" blacks (and other undesirables) "are known for"?

They don't focus their policing on certain ghettos but avoid proper communities?

Despite what you might have been taught, Justice ain't blind.

One guy went to prison for all the frauds, theft and general White-collar crimes from the GFC.

Hmmm... I wonder why. Hmmm... Wall St guys are not known for unethical conducts, and they never sniff any drugs and powder either. This is shown in the crime stats, in black and white.

Hang on. I use the same fractured logic you guys use and you turn around and question its validity. Let's be consistent, people. If we are going to use fables wrapped up as fact let's use them ubiquitously.

 

[Value Collector]

Because we are going to have a barrage of ABC sponsored marriages complete with the sickening sight of grown men performing unnatural, revolting perversion of heterosexual mating practices. That you find joy in it speaks of your level of acceptance being extraordinarily less than mine, but it doesn't make you right.

I'm sure there's something in that corrupted morality kernal of yours that makes you squeal like stuck pig, so you know the feeling.

Don't watch then, simple.