Trainee prop trading options, prep, credibility in Australia - Outsider Research

[OmegaTrader]

I am starting this thread to put my outsider research on the prop firms in Australia.My main focus is on trainee options and credibility.

I found that when looking at this path that information is fragmented in all different places, there is different opinions, self interest and sometimes just bs hyperbole online.

Any insiders or past experiences would be good.

I will hopefully have some of my own experiences to reflect on in the future.

I will attach information soon and let it speak for its self. I will strive to be impartial and also post some links/access to preparation materials that others have suggested online.


watch this space

cheers

Omega

 

[mjim]

I am starting this thread to put my outsider research on the prop firms in Australia.My main focus is on trainee options and credibility.

I found that when looking at this path that information is fragmented in all different places, there is different opinions, self interest and sometimes just bs hyperbole online.

Any insiders or past experiences would be good.

I will hopefully have some of my own experiences to reflect on in the future.

I will attach information soon and let it speak for its self. I will strive to be impartial and also post some links/access to preparation materials that others have suggested online.


watch this space

cheers

Omega

Hi
I am also interested in same subject
I only heard of Genesis and Propex
and sure there are very high end one/ Bank owned where you need to be top in maths / be young etc and other
other scale some outfits pretending as prop but the real business model is 100 pays $300-500 TEST fee and hope 99 fail
Is there a middle ground? where mature people can have a chance with some capital of own
In US for pairs trading I heard about Bright Trading ( but they want series 7 exam + being Non US 100 K deposit as compared to 50 K for local)

 

[jmg86]

Your better off viewing the Prop shop programs as a trial with the promise of funding than training. Beyond some basic market fundamentals and lessons on how to use cqg and TT your not going to be taught anything earth shattering.

The real benefit comes from the consistent screen time your forced to go through and thus hopefully develop some view of how markets trade. If you show some promise, you will go beyond whats available for your average retail trader very quickly. If not, you at least have 200+ hours of considered screen time to frame your own trading around so you can try again down the track.

 

[OmegaTrader]

Hi
I am also interested in same subject
I only heard of Genesis and Propex
and sure there are very high end one/ Bank owned where you need to be top in maths / be young etc and other
other scale some outfits pretending as prop but the real business model is 100 pays $300-500 TEST fee and hope 99 fail
Is there a middle ground? where mature people can have a chance with some capital of own
In US for pairs trading I heard about Bright Trading ( but they want series 7 exam + being Non US 100 K deposit as compared to 50 K for local)

Your better off viewing the Prop shop programs as a trial with the promise of funding than training. Beyond some basic market fundamentals and lessons on how to use cqg and TT your not going to be taught anything earth shattering.

The real benefit comes from the consistent screen time your forced to go through and thus hopefully develop some view of how markets trade. If you show some promise, you will go beyond whats available for your average retail trader very quickly. If not, you at least have 200+ hours of considered screen time to frame your own trading around so you can try again down the track.

mjim thankyou for your interest.

jmg thank you for your opinion

Do you have any experience or information in prop trading that you could share in terms of options credible operators and preparation?

Have you applied for prop programs? etc

 

[mjim]

mjim thankyou for your interest.

jmg thank you for your opinion

Do you have any experience or information in prop trading that you could share in terms of options credible operators and preparation?

Have you applied for prop programs? etc

In AUS have heard of Genesis and Propex
Other "so called" prop firms ( the dodgy model) market themselves sin AUS but probably will be shut down by ASIC

 

[OmegaTrader]

In AUS have heard of Genesis and Propex
Other "so called" prop firms ( the dodgy model) market themselves sin AUS but probably will be shut down by ASIC

I will attach the information and let the chips fall where they may.

Make your own opinion.

Be warned I will attach a lot of information :bazooka:

 

[cynic]

In AUS have heard of Genesis and Propex
Other "so called" prop firms ( the dodgy model) market themselves sin AUS but probably will be shut down by ASIC

You are most certainly correct about dodgy offerings pretending to be prop shops, but I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for ASIC to do anything about it.

I had a lengthy email exchange with one such provider.

I was offered an opportunity to do their proprietary trading course provided, I pay a hefty (5 figure) tuition fee.

I politely asked if they would allow me to do their course and then reimburse themselves from the commissions I earn after commencing proprietary trading with their funds. My, oh my! The ensuing excuses were lamer than a legless millipede!

I then raised my concerns about having witnessed a misrepresentation, by one of their agents, of the risks associated with the trading of leveraged financial instruments. What ensued was an almost week long exchange of email correspondence ending with a reluctant acknowledgment of error accompanied with yet another lame (and also misleading) excuse offered as justification.

The disturbing thing about this firm, is that, years later, they're still operational and making a fortune selling educational material that is misleading to the point of being financially dangerous.

 

[OmegaTrader]

I will start with Propex:

below is initial research more to come:



Cursory information


This is what their current website says:

Propex Derivatives is a renowned and well-established proprietary trading firm with offices in Sydney, the Gold Coast and Singapore. At Propex, we specialise in providing capital for established traders as well as training and funding junior traders. With a supportive culture and successful track record of growth, today we focus on futures, foreign exchange, equities and commodities.

I have found that Propex has an online presence.

Their website: https://propex.com.au/

A seek advertisement https://www.seek.com.au/job/31719546




View attachment Trainee Proprietary Traders - Sydney Job in Sydney - SEEK.pdf


List of employees

Below is a list of employees available freely on linkedin - that work for Propex.

I have found 33

This will give readers an idea of the company, management and also some junior members mention the strategies that they use and the skills that are valued.

View attachment Propex_Linkedin_employees.zip


Interesting to see that some former trainee traders from Aliom (now is Genesis) have moved to Propex.

Note: some work in Singapore, some in NSW e.t.c

Post more tomorrow

....

 

[OmegaTrader]

You are most certainly correct about dodgy offerings pretending to be prop shops, but I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for ASIC to do anything about it.

I had a lengthy email exchange with one such provider.

I was offered an opportunity to do their proprietary trading course provided, I pay a hefty (5 figure) tuition fee.

I politely asked if they would allow me to do their course and then reimburse themselves from the commissions I earn after commencing proprietary trading with their funds. My, oh my! The ensuing excuses were lamer than a legless millipede!

I then raised my concerns about having witnessed a misrepresentation, by one of their agents, of the risks associated with the trading of leveraged financial instruments. What ensued was an almost week long exchange of email correspondence ending with a reluctant acknowledgment of error accompanied with yet another lame (and also misleading) excuse offered as justification.

The disturbing thing about this firm, is that, years later, they're still operational and making a fortune selling educational material that is misleading to the point of being financially dangerous.

Thanks Cynic for your honest opinion and experience.

This is why I started this thread, to give realistic advice and information in one thread. So whoever reads this thread will save googling on all different sites.

Can you please detail the company name and details for other members, otherwise if you are reluctant for fear of repercussions

I will research it online if you give me the company name.....

thanks

 

[cynic]

Thanks Cynic for your honest opinion and experience.

This is why I started this thread, to give realistic advice and information in one thread. So whoever reads this thread will save googling on all different sites.

Can you please detail the company name and details for other members, otherwise if you are reluctant for fear of repercussions

I will research it online if you give me the company name.....

thanks

My preference is not to explicitly disclose the name they currently operate under(they changed it in recent years) for fear of attracting another lawsuit to this forum. I have, of course, retained all of my email correspondence as a precautionary measure.

Suffice to say that they originated in the UK and their "educational" services are predominantly focussed on the forex market.

 

[OmegaTrader]

My preference is not to explicitly disclose the name they currently operate under(they changed it in recent years) for fear of attracting another lawsuit to this forum. I have, of course, retained all of my email correspondence as a precautionary measure.

Suffice to say that they originated in the UK and their "educational" services are predominantly focussed on the forex market.

I understand

I think I know who this is. Won't push it.

It's a shame we can't tell the truth in 2016, almost anonymously on a forum...

hmmm....


Anyway people can tell the $5000 schemes are mainly bs.

I will focus more on the trainee and general research side etc

Thanks anyway

 

[banco]

Tom Dante (former prop trader at Futex) has a series of webinars for sale (proceeds go to charity and there's a link to a third party website where you can actually see they've gone to charity). If you got all 30+ of them you'd probably be up for close to $1000 AUD but he has a swing trading module and a day trading module so you could just focus on what interests you.

 

[OmegaTrader]

Website of Propex

https://propex.com.au/

or pdf for offline a bit heavy on the download- sorry



View attachment Propex Website - Copy.zip
View attachment Propex Website - Copy - Copy.zip
View attachment Propex Website - Copy - Copy - Copy.zip


Interesting readiness quiz - multi choice questions.

Nice novelty

I purposely tried to fail it the answer was

You got 0 of 14 possible points.
Not bad. Why not try some exercise to stimulate that brain and try again?

hahaah

will try to download answer pool later

tried for real got 10/14

not that good ... better than nothing

You got 10 of 14 possible points.
Congratulations! You may have the brainpower needed to be a Propex trader. Why not apply now for our comprehensive traininng program in Sydney, Gold Coast or Singapore?

tomorrow will post some information about the background of head honchos and company info etc

 

[CanOz]

Website of Propex

https://propex.com.au/

or pdf for offline a bit heavy on the download- sorry



View attachment 67970
View attachment 67971
View attachment 67972


Interesting readiness quiz - multi choice questions.

Nice novelty

I purposely tried to fail it the answer was

You got 0 of 14 possible points.
Not bad. Why not try some exercise to stimulate that brain and try again?

hahaah

will try to download answer pool later

tried for real got 10/14

not that good ... better than nothing

You got 10 of 14 possible points.
Congratulations! You may have the brainpower needed to be a Propex trader. Why not apply now for our comprehensive traininng program in Sydney, Gold Coast or Singapore?

tomorrow will post some information about the background of head honchos and company info etc

Propex helped create one of Asia's most successful bond traders. This guy recently picked up a whopping 7 figures in one day trading the Aussies. He's pretty famous in real trader circles and quite often responsible for moving the market in the bonds.....that could be you one day Omega!

 

[RowanC]

In terms of the training both of these firms provide they are based around the work of Guy Bower.

Guy was the head of training at Propex for a number of years and now I believe works with what is now Genesis on their training program.

He's very legit a good guy, and has his own website/training program also.

I haven't used his trading courses site as such but in terms of content it would be very similar to what you would get at a prop for obvious reasons.

http://guybower.com

But just to add to this, I think the value of being at a prop shop is the pure screen time that you get and also the ability to casually chat to other traders. It's about being in a successful environment.

 

[CanOz]

In terms of the training both of these firms provide they are based around the work of Guy Bower.

Guy was the head of training at Propex for a number of years and now I believe works with what is now Genesis on their training program.

He's very legit a good guy, and has his own website/training program also.

I haven't used his trading courses site as such but in terms of content it would be very similar to what you would get at a prop for obvious reasons.

http://guybower.com

But just to add to this, I think the value of being at a prop shop is the pure screen time that you get and also the ability to casually chat to other traders. It's about being in a successful environment.

I agree totally about Guy. He's a solid dude and he's been good to me, he helped me get an interview with Genesis. I did a few of his courses as well, the site is good value I reckon.

 

[OmegaTrader]

Propex helped create one of Asia's most successful bond traders. This guy recently picked up a whopping 7 figures in one day trading the Aussies. He's pretty famous in real trader circles and quite often responsible for moving the market in the bonds.....that could be you one day Omega!

Canoz you gotta stop this ahaha

In terms of the training both of these firms provide they are based around the work of Guy Bower.

Guy was the head of training at Propex for a number of years and now I believe works with what is now Genesis on their training program.

He's very legit a good guy, and has his own website/training program also.

I haven't used his trading courses site as such but in terms of content it would be very similar to what you would get at a prop for obvious reasons.

http://guybower.com

But just to add to this, I think the value of being at a prop shop is the pure screen time that you get and also the ability to casually chat to other traders. It's about being in a successful environment.

I agree totally about Guy. He's a solid dude and he's been good to me, he helped me get an interview with Genesis. I did a few of his courses as well, the site is good value I reckon.

Yeah Rowan that is why I try to apply eventually+ guy bowers resources will come up later in the resources/prep I will attach

 

[OmegaTrader]

History/headhonchos/ Company info

Max Whitby is the founding owner and managing director according to Propex website


Attached in as article with a bit about him.

View attachment Max_Whitby.pdf

by nswroa (NSW racehorse owners)..... 2 Dec 09 14:56

Interesting a bit.

Do trainees get to ride his horse lol... that sounds really wrong haha

He set up LQUAY - a futures broker---- in 1991 and sold it in 2005 according to the article.


Lets see what Asic says

A cursory search for Lquay and also for Propex


View attachment LQuay Company Search.zip
View attachment Propex Company Search.zip




Asic says they exist, that helps


PROPEX DERIVATIVES PTY LTD

is the company name listed on the website


Curious ownership structure and how many times the name has changed

Now is PROPEX 24 PTY LTD

was:

PROPEX HOLDINGS PTY LTD, PROPEX SECURITIES PTY LTD, A.C.N. 009 199 553 PTY LIMITED, L QUAY FUTURES BROKERS PTY. LIMITED, BRINCKLEY PTY. LTD.

PROPEX SINGAPORE PTY LTD is there too.

Why incorporate in Australia???

I wonder if Propex mortgages or finance are related?? Maybe not.


Tomorrow some aspects of the trainee program, forums opinions and resources to try and prepare.

Then look at Aliom...

 

[OmegaTrader]

Aspects of trainee program

Basically the website outline the program

https://propex.com.au/trainee-traders


First you apply online

https://propex.com.au/trainee-traders/apply-now

If you get trough then a week of learning followed by
two more weeks of online training

Then two weeks of sim trading.

Then interview

Then

In-house training continues for another six to eight weeks before you move into a live trading account.

Then you die haha

Here is a good summary I found online although it is a bit older but still similar I think

View attachment Trainee Trader FAQ.pdf




Forum opinions

These are always mixed



Obviously look on aussiestock forums

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11946
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11988


Other forums I won't post here just google that.

Glassdoor not enough info some ok reviews






Resources and preparation

is longer than I thought so another post....

 

[OmegaTrader]

Preparation

I have asked some questions on the forums

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31363

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11988&page=25

Basically the advice is

Practice mental maths

Have a demo/ micro account CQG and TT trader are mentioned

Practice spread trading mainly on interest rate securities

General job advice, how to interview, interests, interest in trading, experience/s etc etc

The other advice is on the Propex website.

Read the guide

Demo again

and look at CME, ASX and SGX resources.

Resources This is quite limited sorry


Guy Bower Website and youtube



spread training

taken from the mentioned forums

http://rajenkapadia.wix.com/tradingthespread

A book by Stephen Aikin called Trading STIR Futures:....

NO BS day trading and Jigsaw trading seem to be loosely related to Guy Bower

google haha

that is all I have for the moment.