Trainee prop trading options, prep, credibility in Australia - Outsider Research

[OmegaTrader]

I don't know that it's him either....but I have a mate that knows him...I'll find a way to identify him.

If it a big shot or not

Nevertheless any insights into the prop world from the inside would be helpful.

For newbies and someone who has not taken the leap over the fence yet....


cheers

 

[skc]

2) How do you know that is Mark Zagora and not some kid in their parents metaphorical basement

I don't think the poster "hedgedhog" is Mark Zagora. He said his name is in the attachment you sent earlier... so he/she is one of the 12 linked in profiles you sent.

 

[OmegaTrader]

You asking who mark zagora is on a prop trading thread....sort of like asking who Sydney Crosby is on an ice hockey thread....

I don't think the poster "hedgedhog" is Mark Zagora. He said his name is in the attachment you sent earlier... so he/she is one of the 12 linked in profiles you sent.

I thought Canoz was implying that the respondent was Mark Zagora

My mistake sorry..

Any information from employees is useful especially for a fence sitter like me

ahha

 

[CanOz]

So hedgehog....where were you trading from last month?

Nah, my mistake. When I saw the bold I thought hedgehog was saying that he was zagora....my bad. Gotha quit browsing ASF on my phone.

 

[hedgedhog]

So hedgehog....where were you trading from last month?

In my little office in Sydney unfortunately

 

[CanOz]

In my little office in Sydney unfortunately

No worries. At least you're living the dream, although I've heard that making a quid trading stirs is tough now without automation, your thoughts?

 

[hedgedhog]

1) A realistic overview of the prospects, pay split, working conditions, What you are actually doing, What to watch out for etc etc

You get started off on firm strategies which are more forgiving, lower capital required to get started etc. First 1-2 months you're on the simulator alternating days between drills and trading the strategies you will be when you first go live. Each week you'll also be given back-testing work to do, you're basically given massive hints on what to look at for the strategy in order to gain edge.

Split at pretty much all the firms starts at 50/50, increasing as you hit tiers, progression required to hit tiers is definitely reasonable.

Work conditions all depends on you, but don't expect to trade the hours you want, strategies may only work during certain hours.

I trade bond and equity futures as do most of the firms, Propex has an AUS equities division and not sure about Aliom/Genesis (more on that later).

2) How to prepare for being a prop trader, skills to practice, resources, etc

Resources - your typical psychology books are probably most relevant definitely over all the strategy books. You now have a real-life mentor there who can guide you first-hand to what works and what doesn't. Discipline and emotional control is more on you. Have some decent back-testing skills, proficiency in excel is a must for progression and having some sort of coding (Python, C++, Java) that you can work on will be very useful.

3) Who are you and or how are you involved??

One of the more junior traders, I've been here for almost 2 years. Most of the others as you already know, were original traders from Propex who moved over.

4) Can you get me into a prop for 30 silver coins

Haha, but seriously I've seen your betting thread and it feels like we have many of the same interests. I personally went from trading sport cards to creating a few betting models to prop after I left university.

5) History of star beta, Propex, aliom how they are all related etc etc

Mark and Don moved from Propex to set up SB, a lot of the senior traders under their wing at Propex moved with them. Aliom and Epoch I believe, combined to set up Genesis. Speaking of Aliom and Epoch, I suggest you take them off any list if you are pursuing prop. They have outdated strategies for newbies and the turnover rate is very high, so my guess is that they make money off your brokerage credits etc. on b/e strategies and then see you on your way. I've also heard Epoch spread losses throughout the office when one of their more senior traders/teams get murdered. That's obviously of the original two firms, I haven't heard anything about this new partnership.

My personal experience with Aliom is being offered a junior trader position, only to be told 2 days before start that the program would not go ahead until 3 months later because of "technical difficulties". Safe so say I believe I dodged a massive bullet and don't know who to thank for it.

6) Alternatives to Prop

Market making firms (Optiver, ICM, Eclipse) are still trading firms just less freedom and more stability. I wouldn't advise against them at all. Though they are more systematic which I think you mentioned you wanted to avoid.

Right now, I feel you are at a massive disadvantage if you start your journey trading without being at a reputable prop but there is a whole forum here with successful traders. However, the infrastructure here definitely accelerated my learning and growth in all aspects of trading.

7) anything else I have missed

Be prepared to work long hours, and not necessarily ones you want to work for at least a year. Be committed, in my brief time I've seen trainees quit/get fired because: 1. hours are too long 2. they didn't want to do backtesting homework on the weekend

The prospects are definitely there, you are surrounded by a whole office of people who have made it, a few who are still in the process of making it but the money they make daily/monthly/yearly consistently is very real.

8) All of your financial passwords and pins

markzagora
moneyisking666?!?!?!

Probably missed a lot of things, feel free to follow up.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

I thought Canoz was implying that the respondent was Mark Zagora

My mistake sorry..

Any information from employees is useful especially for a fence sitter like me

ahha

I'm just going to tell you what I thought of my trainee stint at Propex a few years ago. Guy was the "trainer", who I found personally to be fairly useless as a trainer, you get sat in front of a screen and told to basically figure it out, apart from the obvious "drills" you can find online(cut and reverse etc.) which are pretty standard. But no actual idea generation or work put into helping you get ideas etc. plus he only kinda half-arsed traded himself, which wasn't very encouraging.

Now, onto Mark, he was considered a God-like figure when I was there, he was by far the biggest trader and had his own special little office. He apparently used to do the training for the new guys before Guy, pretty much all of his trainees were still there killing it, and pretty much all of Guy's weren't. So I'll just let that sit there. Don't get me wrong, Guy was an awesome guy and super friendly, but we just didn't get much out of him as far as helping us develop as trader. Mark was the one you'd hear all the stories about, like making 130k in about 30 seconds one Christmas or NYE. But he only talked to us occasionally as he was trading most of the time. He was real big on spreading, especially the SPI/ES, that was his thing. The entire time I was there he was building a massive position on that spread that seemed to never go in his favour, so who knows if it never did and that's why he stopped and started his own prop shop.

As far as Don goes, he was an actual trader there when I was there, but stopped because he wasn't profitable any more and decided to become a trainer instead, which didn't turn me on too much, I really would rather learn from someone who is actually trading and killing it, not someone who can no longer do so they teach.

They were also very strong on making you trade what they want you to trade, maybe because of kick-backs from the commissions they get or some deal they've lined up behind the scenes, so they were very much trying to make us trade our local crap(SPI, Bonds) and encouraging the whole spreading thing. There was maybe 3 guys there that we knew of(may have been more, people weren't very talkative) that were actually doing any good, the rest were so-so, mostly talking about how much easier it was back in 05.

There was a guy who also worked at Propex, who ran the Singapore and also the newly formed(back then) Gold Coast office(I think), can't remember his name, who came to Sydney once when I was there, he was also strongly into spreading and he gave us an hour speech and it was incredible, but then he had to go back obviously and that was that. I decided to email him and ask him more questions but was told by Guy to "stop hassling" him and ask Guy instead. Tried that.

Matt was the boss back then, I think his name was Matt. He was great, quite open to ideas and fairly relaxed in letting us have more size and so on, good guy Dunno if he's still running the show there. I think Max was the older guy that actually owns it, he was like the old grumpy man but he was funny, he's right into horses and horse racing, you'd hear his phone going off in his office because it was this loud horse neighing, sounded hilarious.

Overall it was a pretty awesome experience, great environment and access to markets etc. but personally I felt the "training" could have been much better, and I kind of turn off when the "trainer" isn't an active trader who's killing it or can't do it anymore so he's training instead. I'm not a fan of that. You also have to be careful about where they get their kickbacks and what they want you to trade, I don't know what happened with Mark, if his massive spread failed and it all turned to **** so he started his own prop shop, which is a more stable income and the model works a treat, or if it all worked out and he made an even bigger killing and started it that way and is still killing it. But I like knowing about how whoever is training you, became to be the trainer, or why and if they're still trading and so on, but all this might not bother you at all. Again, this is just all my opinion of which I'm entitled to.

If I had my time again there, I'd probably force myself to "pester" the other guys who were doing something right and try and get one of them to mentor me somehow so I wouldn't waste as much time going down dead-end streets etc.

Overall I did like it and unfortunate that it didn't work out, and part of that was also my fault no doubt, but I did feel it could have been much better in the training side of things, seeing as we are "trainees". Like classes once or twice a week about generating ideas, a weekly review one on one on how your trading is going, where you need work, what it's all about and stop doing that because you're wasting your time etc. etc. stuff like that would have been awesome.

But obviously all the personnel has changed now so it could all be very different. I'm just sharing my experience in the little group I was in. Hope it all works out for you and good luck!

 

[hedgedhog]

No worries. At least you're living the dream, although I've heard that making a quid trading stirs is tough now without automation, your thoughts?

The market this year was definitely the toughest in a long time but I feel like it was a product of this low-yield expectant environment that the Fed had created. Post-Trump markets have opened up a lot as the tight market-making scalpers on all the bid-offers got flushed out. I don't trade any of the STIRs per-se so this is more just a comment on the bond market in general.

 

[minwa]

I'm just going to tell you what I thought of my trainee stint at Propex a few years ago. Guy was the "trainer", who I found personally to be fairly useless as a trainer, you get sat in front of a screen and told to basically figure it out, apart from the obvious "drills" you can find online(cut and reverse etc.) which are pretty standard. But no actual idea generation or work put into helping you get ideas etc. plus he only kinda half-arsed traded himself, which wasn't very encouraging.

Dosn't sound like the right person to be a head trainer.

 

[skc]

Guy was the "trainer", who I found personally to be fairly useless as a trainer, you get sat in front of a screen and told to basically figure it out, apart from the obvious "drills" you can find online(cut and reverse etc.) which are pretty standard. But no actual idea generation or work put into helping you get ideas etc. plus he only kinda half-arsed traded himself, which wasn't very encouraging.

I have never had much interaction with Guy so my comments are general in nature... but I think the skills involved in training and trading are very different. So someone who doesn't trade, or didn't "make it" big time trading doesn't automatically make him/her a poor trainer. I can't tell you (without googling) who's the coach for Tiger Woods, Pete Sampras or Mike Tyson... but I bet you none of them were as successful in their respective sports as their students. Yet, there's little doubt that these coaches / trainers played a positive role in these elite athletes' careers.

I do think that "idea generation" is not something you can easily teach and is probably one of the key factor that differentiate successful traders from developing traders.

He was real big on spreading, especially the SPI/ES, that was his thing. The entire time I was there he was building a massive position on that spread that seemed to never go in his favour, so who knows if it never did and that's why he stopped and started his own prop shop.

I heard the same story from an unverified source... but I guess for him to be able to start his own shop he must have done alright for some time.

As far as Don goes, he was an actual trader there when I was there, but stopped because he wasn't profitable any more and decided to become a trainer instead, which didn't turn me on too much, I really would rather learn from someone who is actually trading and killing it, not someone who can no longer do so they teach.

See above... Trading takes a lot of focus and training also demands a lot of time and effort. In Propex equities there's a great trainer now who's also a serious and successful trader. I don't know how he does it... he could be holding 20 positions while looking over half a dozen trainees and at the same time chatting in 3 windows. It's rare to get someone like that.

In a few years (when my family life gets less busy) I would consider possibly getting into some trainer role. Although I am not 100% sure whether I would be any good or not... and I know that if training gets in the way of my trading, I would most certainly prioritise my own trades.

Matt was the boss back then, I think his name was Matt. He was great, quite open to ideas and fairly relaxed in letting us have more size and so on, good guy Dunno if he's still running the show there. I think Max was the older guy that actually owns it, he was like the old grumpy man but he was funny, he's right into horses and horse racing, you'd hear his phone going off in his office because it was this loud horse neighing, sounded hilarious.

Same crew still there.

Overall I did like it and unfortunate that it didn't work out, and part of that was also my fault no doubt, but I did feel it could have been much better in the training side of things, seeing as we are "trainees". Like classes once or twice a week about generating ideas, a weekly review one on one on how your trading is going, where you need work, what it's all about and stop doing that because you're wasting your time etc. etc. stuff like that would have been awesome.

These are solid suggestions.

 

[minwa]

So someone who doesn't trade, or didn't "make it" big time trading doesn't automatically make him/her a poor trainer. I can't tell you (without googling) who's the coach for Tiger Woods, Pete Sampras or Mike Tyson... but I bet you none of them were as successful in their respective sports as their students. Yet, there's little doubt that these coaches / trainers played a positive role in these elite athletes' careers.

But the difference there is those people are at the top level in terms of technical skill who are looking more for the psychological training. I'm sure their first coach who taught them how to swing was someone who has "done it".

Trainees are expected to know nothing going in..I could see him being a second coach who adds extra dimensions but main coach ? Sorry, don't like those odds..

 

[CanOz]

But the difference there is those people are at the top level in terms of technical skill who are looking more for the psychological training. I'm sure their first coach who taught them how to swing was someone who has "done it".

Trainees are expected to know nothing going in..I could see him being a second coach who adds extra dimensions but main coach ? Sorry, don't like those odds..

Bottom line here too is that the Australian firms, IMO, don't have a great reputation of being firms that grow traders...

Grow bottom lines...maybe

That might be changing but that's the word I've got.

 

[minwa]

Bottom line here too is that the Australian firms, IMO, don't have a great reputation of being firms that grow traders...

Grow bottom lines...maybe

That might be changing but that's the word I've got.

True, leads back to Sam's point of being forced to trade a small allowance of "local crap" because of rebates.

 

[OmegaTrader]

I'm just going to tell you what I thought of my trainee stint at Propex a few years ago. Guy was the "trainer", who I found personally to be fairly useless as a trainer, you get sat in front of a screen and told to basically figure it out, apart from the obvious "drills" you can find online(cut and reverse etc.) which are pretty standard. But no actual idea generation or work put into helping you get ideas etc. plus he only kinda half-arsed traded himself, which wasn't very encouraging.

View attachment 69138

Dosn't sound like the right person to be a head trainer.

But the difference there is those people are at the top level in terms of technical skill who are looking more for the psychological training. I'm sure their first coach who taught them how to swing was someone who has "done it".

Trainees are expected to know nothing going in..I could see him being a second coach who adds extra dimensions but main coach ? Sorry, don't like those odds..

To start off:

Wow the brutality of it ...

Although I don't expect anything less.

Better to take the red pill then to live in blissful ignorance.. I think... I Hope....

You get started off on firm strategies which are more forgiving, lower capital required to get started etc. First 1-2 months you're on the simulator alternating days between drills and trading the strategies you will be when you first go live. Each week you'll also be given back-testing work to do, you're basically given massive hints on what to look at for the strategy in order to gain edge.

Split at pretty much all the firms starts at 50/50, increasing as you hit tiers, progression required to hit tiers is definitely reasonable.

Work conditions all depends on you, but don't expect to trade the hours you want, strategies may only work during certain hours.

I trade bond and equity futures as do most of the firms, Propex has an AUS equities division and not sure about Aliom/Genesis (more on that later).



Resources - your typical psychology books are probably most relevant definitely over all the strategy books. You now have a real-life mentor there who can guide you first-hand to what works and what doesn't. Discipline and emotional control is more on you. Have some decent back-testing skills, proficiency in excel is a must for progression and having some sort of coding (Python, C++, Java) that you can work on will be very useful.



One of the more junior traders, I've been here for almost 2 years. Most of the others as you already know, were original traders from Propex who moved over.



Haha, but seriously I've seen your betting thread and it feels like we have many of the same interests. I personally went from trading sport cards to creating a few betting models to prop after I left university.



Mark and Don moved from Propex to set up SB, a lot of the senior traders under their wing at Propex moved with them. Aliom and Epoch I believe, combined to set up Genesis. Speaking of Aliom and Epoch, I suggest you take them off any list if you are pursuing prop. They have outdated strategies for newbies and the turnover rate is very high, so my guess is that they make money off your brokerage credits etc. on b/e strategies and then see you on your way. I've also heard Epoch spread losses throughout the office when one of their more senior traders/teams get murdered. That's obviously of the original two firms, I haven't heard anything about this new partnership.

My personal experience with Aliom is being offered a junior trader position, only to be told 2 days before start that the program would not go ahead until 3 months later because of "technical difficulties". Safe so say I believe I dodged a massive bullet and don't know who to thank for it.



Market making firms (Optiver, ICM, Eclipse) are still trading firms just less freedom and more stability. I wouldn't advise against them at all. Though they are more systematic which I think you mentioned you wanted to avoid.

Right now, I feel you are at a massive disadvantage if you start your journey trading without being at a reputable prop but there is a whole forum here with successful traders. However, the infrastructure here definitely accelerated my learning and growth in all aspects of trading.



Be prepared to work long hours, and not necessarily ones you want to work for at least a year. Be committed, in my brief time I've seen trainees quit/get fired because: 1. hours are too long 2. they didn't want to do backtesting homework on the weekend

The prospects are definitely there, you are surrounded by a whole office of people who have made it, a few who are still in the process of making it but the money they make daily/monthly/yearly consistently is very real.



markzagora
moneyisking666?!?!?!

Probably missed a lot of things, feel free to follow up.

I feel like a person who has been eating only bread and water and has been been given a meal and remembers what chicken tastes like.

very nice!

Thanks everyone and (especially mark zagora alias trainee haha)for your honest opinions and being so open to help.


1) What is the application process for applying at StarBeta, What are they looking for, How far ahead to they expect a trainee to be etc ...

Knowledge of financial markets, experience, what are the xfactors etc

2) More information on the firms strategies and strategies that you use
If you can.

Are you trading mainly spreads as well ... directional.... your own ideas etc

And if you want to trading capital

3) Drilling down into preparation and applying for Star Beta or any prop..

Any more information on this is always welcome :bowdown:

A) Have some decent back testing skills
B)Proficiency in excel
C)Coding is useful
D) Proof of Discipline and emotional control


I don't how you prepare for this..

E) Work hard, odd hours and weekend homework

Haha, but seriously I've seen your betting thread and it feels like we have many of the same interests. I personally went from trading sport cards to creating a few betting models to prop after I left university.

Haha

I lost 5/7 bets on NFL today and they were almost all favourites

Plus I have lost 4/5 of the last NBA picks

Please just be variance, oh man it hurts my pride

The irony if I lost the challenge

Anyway that is the brakes...

Thanks again

Omega

 

[hedgedhog]

True, leads back to Sam's point of being forced to trade a small allowance of "local crap" because of rebates.

Probably a biased view but the strategies which use this so-called "local crap" are very much profitable if you do the back-testing so while they may also be introductory strategies with rebates in mind, this is definitely not the crux.

 

[hedgedhog]

1) What is the application process for applying at StarBeta, What are they looking for, How far ahead to they expect a trainee to be etc ...

Knowledge of financial markets, experience, what are the xfactors etc

Application --> interview --> simulation --> live

Until now, there is no expectation on trainees to have any experience trading but an entrepreneurial mind is appreciated. Obviously I have no idea if this selection process will change in the future.

2) More information on the firms strategies and strategies that you use
If you can.

Are you trading mainly spreads as well ... directional.... your own ideas etc

And if you want to trading capital

Traditionally a firm built on spreading strategies but I have seen quants come in recently and get capital for their own strategies - this is obviously contingent on them already being experienced/profitable at other prop firms or in their own trading.

Personally got started off in bond spreads, have a few outright strategies but they are in no way my bread-and-butter. In the past few months I have gone live on a couple of equity futures spreads and have a couple more that I want to start running by the end of January. I would say that unless you have existing outright strategies, Star Beta won't be the best firm for you if you are hell-bent on only trading outrights.

With mentoring you will get to talk a lot more with Mark Zagora than it seems like you were able to in the past and the majority of your mentoring will be with him by the end of your first year.

3) Drilling down into preparation and applying for Star Beta or any prop..

Any more information on this is always welcome :bowdown:

A) Have some decent back testing skills
B)Proficiency in excel
C)Coding is useful
D) Proof of Discipline and emotional control


I don't how you prepare for this..

E) Work hard, odd hours and weekend homework

I believe these skills will get you past the screening stage and most importantly help you drastically once you do get started. Back-testing is key as most of the guys here can probably agree on. What is the point of being given ideas if you cannot test and confirm them yourself - you could give anyone the best strategy in the world but as soon as he goes through a period of drawdown he will start second-guessing it.

Excel - for general backtesting; with spreads it is all about how far something moves, is it directional or mean reverting, what can you expect on average, where are the problem days, are there problem times in a normal day you should avoid taking a position. All this can be done in excel with the data that you get. Similar concepts apply to outright strategies. What you don't want, is to need to test something, work out all your ideas and then having to learn how to test it before you can test it. Every day you spend in the market live with less than 100% conviction in your strategy is a day wasted.

Being about to use something like Python is the next step when you want to analyse something like tick-data that is more intensive and complex. But it can also make everything else just so much faster than if you were using Excel and being more flexible with your parameters. Personally though I feel the finance industry is in general more wanting of these skills and if I could do uni all over again I'd do something like Commerce/Computer Science.

D is hard if you're not already involved with the market in some way. I'd say if you are consistently recording your sport bets, not over-betting after a drawdown, you're somewhat on your way there. It's more just something you need to be aware of before you begin and then put into practice after you start. I've walked into Mark's office before and he's told me to wait up as he jots something down in his trade journal. Emotional control is something you just have to work on, you can't REALLY prepare but I guess a book like Trading in the Zone will help somewhat.

E is more just about commitment. You can't really teach or learn commitment, trading is either what you really want to do or you're just here because you're thinking about the lifestyle that being successful can offer you but you haven't really thought about all the long hours people put in before they get to that successful stage. If you're not there to put in the hours, you will lag behind others on the simulator, you will start going live a bit later, you won't know your market as well as others leading to poorer performance ---> slower size progression ---> ultimately not making enough that you can justify being there or the firm can justify having you around or you are just envious of others who you started with but they are now at least a few months ahead of where you are.

Again, just typed this up, feel free to want clarification on points.

 

[OmegaTrader]

Application --> interview --> simulation --> live

Until now, there is no expectation on trainees to have any experience trading but an entrepreneurial mind is appreciated. Obviously I have no idea if this selection process will change in the future.



Traditionally a firm built on spreading strategies but I have seen quants come in recently and get capital for their own strategies - this is obviously contingent on them already being experienced/profitable at other prop firms or in their own trading.

Personally got started off in bond spreads, have a few outright strategies but they are in no way my bread-and-butter. In the past few months I have gone live on a couple of equity futures spreads and have a couple more that I want to start running by the end of January. I would say that unless you have existing outright strategies, Star Beta won't be the best firm for you if you are hell-bent on only trading outrights.

With mentoring you will get to talk a lot more with Mark Zagora than it seems like you were able to in the past and the majority of your mentoring will be with him by the end of your first year.



I believe these skills will get you past the screening stage and most importantly help you drastically once you do get started. Back-testing is key as most of the guys here can probably agree on. What is the point of being given ideas if you cannot test and confirm them yourself - you could give anyone the best strategy in the world but as soon as he goes through a period of drawdown he will start second-guessing it.

Excel - for general backtesting; with spreads it is all about how far something moves, is it directional or mean reverting, what can you expect on average, where are the problem days, are there problem times in a normal day you should avoid taking a position. All this can be done in excel with the data that you get. Similar concepts apply to outright strategies. What you don't want, is to need to test something, work out all your ideas and then having to learn how to test it before you can test it. Every day you spend in the market live with less than 100% conviction in your strategy is a day wasted.

Being about to use something like Python is the next step when you want to analyse something like tick-data that is more intensive and complex. But it can also make everything else just so much faster than if you were using Excel and being more flexible with your parameters. Personally though I feel the finance industry is in general more wanting of these skills and if I could do uni all over again I'd do something like Commerce/Computer Science.

D is hard if you're not already involved with the market in some way. I'd say if you are consistently recording your sport bets, not over-betting after a drawdown, you're somewhat on your way there. It's more just something you need to be aware of before you begin and then put into practice after you start. I've walked into Mark's office before and he's told me to wait up as he jots something down in his trade journal. Emotional control is something you just have to work on, you can't REALLY prepare but I guess a book like Trading in the Zone will help somewhat.

E is more just about commitment. You can't really teach or learn commitment, trading is either what you really want to do or you're just here because you're thinking about the lifestyle that being successful can offer you but you haven't really thought about all the long hours people put in before they get to that successful stage. If you're not there to put in the hours, you will lag behind others on the simulator, you will start going live a bit later, you won't know your market as well as others leading to poorer performance ---> slower size progression ---> ultimately not making enough that you can justify being there or the firm can justify having you around or you are just envious of others who you started with but they are now at least a few months ahead of where you are.

Again, just typed this up, feel free to want clarification on points.

I don't know what to say now the chicken tastes like veal haha

Thanks

...having to learn how to test it before you can test it.

well worded haha

Obviously this is a great skill to have...

Of course there is a plethora of resources online about this.

Being about to use something like Python is the next step...

I am not a natural Quant and in the beginning tried to avoid this alot.
My usage of excel is best described as messy...
But getting there.

My attempts at coding

It is a learning process...

Ah

This is the inexplicable truth like trying to avoid taxes,

It will get you in the end

It is just the reality of the modern financial paradigm..

I've walked into Mark's office before and he's told me to wait up as he jots something down in his trade journal

+1 need to start an actual trade journal

I would say that unless you have existing outright strategies, Star Beta won't be the best firm for you if you are hell-bent on only trading outrights.

I think in the mainstream spreading is not that common and so takes some adjustment.

You hardly ever hear anyone raving about spreading...

Suggestions on brokers, acess etc to get retail exposure to spread trade..

Again, just typed this up, feel free to want clarification on points.

At the end of the day I want to have some things in place before trying at prop.


Practice back testing
Improve in Excel and Learn coding
Actual trading journal
Learn/ practice about spreading
Practice idea generation
Learn/improve knowledge of derivatives esp Quant side



Failing this well.....
Retail route

then death




I could go on asking more specifics but I think part of being entrepreneurial is to go out and just do it.

That is something I am working on as well.

I won't push my luck with too much pestering...

You can add any other points/issues/tips if you like.


Thanks again

Omega

 

[minwa]

Probably a biased view but the strategies which use this so-called "local crap" are very much profitable if you do the back-testing so while they may also be introductory strategies with rebates in mind, this is definitely not the crux.

I got the impression that it was when I talked to Aliom (back when it was standalone). They liked my results at first, until I told them I traded on the CME and they lost all interest . Anyway glad now considering the problems you have said about them

Thanks for your posts, they're great.

 

[hedgedhog]

I got the impression that it was when I talked to Aliom (back when it was standalone). They liked my results at first, until I told them I traded on the CME and they lost all interest . Anyway glad now considering the problems you have said about them

Thanks for your posts, they're great.

I didn't want to be explicit, in case someone here worked there, but there is a clear difference between Aliom/Epoch/Genesis and Star Beta/Propex. As you have figured out the first group are very much focused on these rebates, they have a very high churn rate and low-edge strategies. Aliom even had a brokerage office on their trade floor