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Malaysia Airlines taken down again!

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Smurf1976 said:
It's like any power imbalance. Personal relationships gone bad, dodgy bosses, drug dealers, energy suppliers, whatever. Whoever has the power knows full well that the other party can't afford the relationship to end, and in that situation you're completely at their mercy over pretty much everything. It's my way or the highway, and you can't afford the highway.:2twocents
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Sections of the US right have been pretty vocal in the idea of shipping cheap gas to Europe so that they are no longer beholden to Russia. It's breathtaking how much gas Russia has. Back in the days of the USSR they actually used to flare it as it was an unwanted by product of oil drilling.

explod said:
Maybe keeping the west out of the site is some emerging evidence that the Ukraine government may have downed this plane and would have had an interest in disturbing evidence. Early days still IMV.
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Except the Ukrainian government doesn't control the site or that part of the Ukraine. They've been trying to send in accident investigators too.
 
In this comment I thought it would be obvious that the Ukraine Govt' is part of the western alliance, who inturn it is inferred caused the missile hit.
 
noco said:
The Russians are trying to shift the blame on the Ukrainian Government.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...shot-down-russia/story-fniztvng-1226997531113
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This is still very much a MSM interpretation.

We really do not know and we should not jump to any conclusions.

Find it interesting that when neutral and authorised officers did arrive on the scene the so called terrorists promptly produced and handed over the black boxes.

This plane was blown to smitherines over a wide area so would have been a nightmare to contain, let alone in a war zone.

To me the press reports have been rubbish on the run.

As I say, it is very early days on this.
 
The MH17 disaster is absolutely horrific and I can only hope that when the missile struck, death came quickly to all those on board via sudden decompression etc. The thought of plummeting 10km fully conscious is sickening.

There's an interesting article on IBTimes... real tinfoil hat stuff!

http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-crash-c...e-coincidence-first-last-flight-dates-1631648
http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-28411.htm

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, a Boeing 777, made its first flight on 17-07-1997 and crashed 17 years later, on 17-07-2014
(2014 reduces to 7: 2+0+1+4=7).

Discussion on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ayzmj/mh17_discussion_thread/

17 is the 7th prime number.

It was shot down over Grabovo near Donetsk, Ukraine (7, 7, 7 letters).

While not related, the London bombings were on 07-07-2005 (reduces to 777)

Christine Lagarde, the head of the IMF, gave a speech about numerology and the "magic number seven".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

1:22 - "Now I'm going to test your numerology skills by asking you to think about the magic seven"
1:34 - "Most of you will know that seven is quite a number
2:24 - "2014, you drop the zero, fourteen, two times, seven"
4:08 - "It will mark the 70th anniversary, 70th anniversary, drop the zero, seven, of the Bretton Woods Conference that actually gave birth to the IMF" (7 + 0 = 7)
4:22 - "And it will be the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall, 25th.." (2 + 5 = 7)
4:38 - "It will also mark the 7th anniversary of the financial market jitters"
5:08 - "After those seven miserable years, weak and fragile"
5:14 - "We have seven strong years"
5:43 - "Now I don't know if the G7 will have anything to do with it" (G is also the 7th letter of the alphabet)
 
John Kerry: US detected the missile launch from Ukraine and observed it hitting Flight MH17


 
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explod said:
Find it interesting that when neutral and authorised officers did arrive on the scene the so called terrorists promptly produced and handed over the black boxes.
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It was handed over after Russia voted in favour of a UN resolution calling for an independent investigation. I'd say that's more than just a coincidence.

It hasn't been proven beyond doubt but really the evidence is very strong that it was the separatists.
 
McLovin said:
It was handed over after Russia voted in favour of a UN resolution calling for an independent investigation. I'd say that's more than just a coincidence.

It hasn't been proven beyond doubt but really the evidence is very strong that it was the separatists.
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Evidence! strong!

What is some of this evidence? And is it tangble or just some u tube or someone's say so.

Apart from US backed jawboning we know nought at this stage. Russia had never indicated that they would not go along with proper action. Again this was the press.

The whole thing is absolutely dreadful and unfortunately the press love it. On top of that it is prividing a MSM cover for shocking atrocities around the Gaza east bank.
 
explod said:
Evidence! strong!

What is some of this evidence? And is it tangble or just some u tube or someone's say so.

Apart from US backed jawboning we know nought at this stage. Russia had never indicated that they would not go along with proper action. Again this was the press.

The whole thing is absolutely dreadful and unfortunately the press love it. On top of that it is prividing a MSM cover for shocking atrocities around the Gaza east bank.
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Sometimes plod, you just have to man up and decide what is the most likely, rather than live in an attrition battle over facts for 10 years or more.

You need to man up.

You sound like an apologist for the Russkies of old. Boring , predictable, and wrong.

gg
 
explod said:
Evidence! strong!

What is some of this evidence? And is it tangble or just some u tube or someone's say so.
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They shot down a Ukrainian military aircraft at high altitude flying in the same area a week before.

There is the voice recording of them admitting to have shot the plane.

They plastered all over social media that they had hit an aircraft, which they clearly believed was a Ukrainian military aircraft. Once they realised it was a civilian airliner, they quickly removed any references.

The US has said it has satellite imagery of the missile being launched. It was the reason that they were able to conclude within hours of the crash that it had been caused by a missile and where that missile was fired from. I'm sure the Russians have their own systems that show the same.

explod said:
Apart from US backed jawboning we know nought at this stage. Russia had never indicated that they would not go along with proper action. Again this was the press.
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Rotting corpses and people stealing from the dead in a field controlled by a group that owes its existence to the support of Moscow doesn't seem like "proper action". And if they don't have them on a short leash, then they wouldn't be sending them a BUK.
 
You may well be right McLovin, only time will tell.

But we are a long way from knowing.

The cooling down of our Prime Minister the last day or so is interesting though.
 
It looks as if the US has come to the same initial conclusion regarding the shooting down of MH17. The separatists shot it down by mistake using Russian missiles.

I think Tony Abbott is going to get some good recognition for the way he has initially led world outrage on the issue and then worked the UN to make effective security council resolutions on investigating the disaster.

I think the war talk rhetoric has subsided and been replaced with the personal horror of the loss of life and determination to have some sort of justice.

Good work..:)
 
basilio said:
It looks as if the US has come to the same initial conclusion regarding the shooting down of MH17. The separatists shot it down by mistake using Russian missiles.

I think Tony Abbott is going to get some good recognition for the way he has initially led world outrage on the issue and then worked the UN to make effective security council resolutions on investigating the disaster.

I think the war talk rhetoric has subsided and been replaced with the personal horror of the loss of life and determination to have some sort of justice.

Good work..:)
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Agree, basilio. Julie Bishop also deserves credit for her role which has been considerable.
 
And two more shot down yesterday.

TOREZ, Ukraine ”” Separatists fighting the Kiev government claimed credit for shooting down two warplanes Wednesday over eastern Ukraine near where a passenger airliner crashed last week after being struck by a missile.

The attack on the warplanes came just six days after the Malaysia Airlines disaster, which has drawn international outrage and showcased the advanced firepower that apparently is available on the ground in the region. The Ukrainian military said Wednesday that the two planes were flying at nearly 17,000 feet ”” an altitude that is out of the reach of the shoulder-fired missiles that the rebels said they had used to down the jets. Neither the government’s nor the rebels’ claims could be verified.
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I'm not usually disposed toward conspiracy theories, but there are also two more passenger aircraft crashed or missing today:
Air Algerie Airbus 320
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-24/air-algerie-passenger-jet-missing/5622514

and

Trans Asia Airways, at least 40 dead, crashed during emergency landing
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...mergency-landing/story-fnizu68q-1226999360321

Perhaps such misadventure is not unusual with these airlines, but I've not heard of disasters with them in the past.
 
MH17 memorial service to be held in Melbourne on August 7

A NATIONAL day of mourning has been declared next Thursday for the victims of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 tragedy, with a multi-faith memorial service planned for St Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne.

The Prime Minister, speaking on Melbourne radio, said the Victorian capital was selected for the 10.30am service because 16 of the 38 Australian victims were from the state.

Flags on all Government buildings, here and overseas, will be flown at half-mast and the service will be broadcast live.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...008252078?nk=6d87697979a48aaf60f36eeba7c42fa3
 
Interesting perspective from Niall Ferguson in the FT today about Ukraine and the use of MH17 to escalate tensions. He goes on to say that all out war is unlikely because the West has no appetite for it and the parallels to the start of WWI are limited to the extent that a pile of misjudgements were made to come to that position.

2014-08-01 22_58_46- Ferguson.png
 
I don't think you can blame the lack of Russian integration solely at Russia's feet. The eastern expansion of NATO set the tone that the West still believed that Russia was a threat. The expansion into countries like Georgia served no purpose other than to antagonise Russia by bringing a defence pact that was created to counter Soviet (Read: Russian) aggression right up to her border.
 
I always thought that when the USSR collapsed that Gorbachev made an agreement with NATO that they would not use that as a pretext to encroach on Russia.
Georgia and the threat to place missiles on Russian borders showed Russia that NATO did not take that agreement seriously.
And by their involvement in the Ukraine Russia is going to try to keep NATO at a safe distance.
One way to solve a dangerous situation may be to offer Russia a buffer zone or demilitarised zone on their Ukraine borders.Russia does not trust the intentions of NATO(that is the US)
 
McLovin said:
I don't think you can blame the lack of Russian integration solely at Russia's feet. The eastern expansion of NATO set the tone that the West still believed that Russia was a threat. The expansion into countries like Georgia served no purpose other than to antagonise Russia by bringing a defence pact that was created to counter Soviet (Read: Russian) aggression right up to her border.
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Going off topic but imagine if NATO didn't expand, where would that leave Poland, Romania and Latvia etc? neutral country's left as some kind of East/West buffer, or if left with no choice joining with Russia in a new pact?

Given their geographic position and history NATO had to offer membership and they had to accept. :2twocents
 

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