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Malaysia Airlines taken down again!

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bellenuit said:
What rank hypocrisy. Every comment you, Sir Rumpole, have made on this thread has been politically related.
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Any comment I made was related to the politics of the area in which this incident occurred. It has nothing whatever to do with Australian politics. My comments were relevant to the thread, yours was not.
 
The Greens have come out in support of the position adopted by our major parties though perhaps with a little less than their usual passion.

Following Shorten, Greens deputy leader Adam Bandt declared: “As the member for Melbourne and on behalf of the Greens, I want to associate myself with the remarks of the prime minister and the leader of the Opposition.”
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http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/19/aust-j19.html

Greens leader Christine Milne said Australia should take a stand through the G20.

"I would certainly back a move to say no, he (Putin) shouldn't be coming to the G20," she told Sky News.
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https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/24504178/pm-urges-russian-change-of-heart-on-mh17/

Their official media release on this incident is as follows,

http://greensmps.org.au/content/med...h17-tragedy-has-global-ramifications-hiv-aids
 
There will probably never be proof but it is obvious to me that the responsibility of this barbaric act lies with one man - Putin.

My sympathy and condolences go to the Australian, Dutch, Malaysian and other nationalities families who have lost loved ones.

Rest in peace all those aboard MH17.
 
Official passenger and crew Manifest released yesterday by MAS

Nationality: Total
Netherlands: 193 (including 1 dual Netherlands/USA citizen)
Malaysia: 43 (including 15 crew & 2 infants)
Australia: 27
Indonesia: 12 (including 1 infant)
United Kingdom: 10 (including 1 dual UK/S. Africa citizen)
Germany: 4
Belgium: 4
Philippines: 3
Canada: 1
New Zealand: 1
Total: 298

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/con...s/mas/PDF/MH17/MH17 PAX AND CREW MANIFEST.pdf

RIP.
 
So_Cynical said:
Official passenger and crew Manifest released yesterday by MAS

Nationality: Total
Netherlands: 193 (including 1 dual Netherlands/USA citizen)
Malaysia: 43 (including 15 crew & 2 infants)
Australia: 27
Indonesia: 12 (including 1 infant)
United Kingdom: 10 (including 1 dual UK/S. Africa citizen)
Germany: 4
Belgium: 4
Philippines: 3
Canada: 1
New Zealand: 1
Total: 298

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/con...s/mas/PDF/MH17/MH17 PAX AND CREW MANIFEST.pdf

RIP.
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On Insiders this morning they quoted 36 Australians on board.
 
Spoke to a ex-Navy Radar specialist today.

Short answer - whoever fired that SAM, knew it was a commercial plane. No questions.

I'd bet that they are also trying to tamper with the black boxes which they have located.

Russia has blood on their hands.
 
DB008 said:
Spoke to a ex-Navy Radar specialist today.

Short answer - whoever fired that SAM, knew it was a commercial plane. No questions.

I'd bet that they are also trying to tamper with the black boxes which they have located.

Russia has blood on their hands.
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If they knew it was a commercial flight then shooting it down was a very stupid thing to do.

The eyes of the world are now on them. Russia and the rebels are marked. The result for them can only be destructive.
 
When would we like the next world war to start ?

The shooting down of the Malaysian airline is a disaster and a tragedy. But for the life of me I just cannot see how the Russians or even the separatists really wanted to shoot down a civilian airliner and kill 300 people. It just seems too stupid and politically wrong for anyone.

So where do we all go from here ? Do we go for blood and push political pressure to the stage that some sot of larger armed conflict emerges ? It's worth remembering that many conflicts have arisen as rhetoric spins out of control and local commanders end up with firefights that escalate into larger conflicts.

I won't presume to say what should happen next but for everyones sake I think the rhetoric should be cooled down.

By the way does anyone believe this is the first time such an incident has occurred ? There is plenty of history to think about. It includes an Iranian airliner shot down by the US as well as other incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17

http://www.theguardian.com/world/dag-hammarskjold

In no way do I understate the tragedy of the loss of life. I just don't think that going on a path that could risk even more bloodshed, particularly if it could spiral out of control, is a sensible response.:2twocents

___________________________________________________________________

PS I appreciate the reasonably civil and constructive tone of the discussion on this thread. Makes it more interesting/worthwhile to participate !!

Cheers
 
basilio said:
When would we like the next world war to start ?

The shooting down of the Malaysian airline is a disaster and a tragedy. But for the life of me I just cannot see how the Russians or even the separatists really wanted to shoot down a civilian airliner and kill 300 people. It just seems too stupid and politically wrong for anyone.

So where do we all go from here ? Do we go for blood and push political pressure to the stage that some sot of larger armed conflict emerges ? It's worth remembering that many conflicts have arisen as rhetoric spins out of control and local commanders end up with firefights that escalate into larger conflicts.

I won't presume to say what should happen next but for everyones sake I think the rhetoric should be cooled down.

By the way does anyone believe this is the first time such an incident has occurred ? There is plenty of history to think about. It includes an Iranian airliner shot down by the US as well as other incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17

http://www.theguardian.com/world/dag-hammarskjold

In no way do I understate the tragedy of the loss of life. I just don't think that going on a path that could risk even more bloodshed, particularly if it could spiral out of control, is a sensible response.:2twocents

___________________________________________________________________

PS I appreciate the reasonably civil and constructive tone of the discussion on this thread. Makes it more interesting/worthwhile to participate !!

Cheers
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I hear you, this needs to be a wake up call for all the leaders involved, not a call to arms
 
basilio said:
In no way do I understate the tragedy of the loss of life. I just don't think that going on a path that could risk even more bloodshed, particularly if it could spiral out of control, is a sensible response.:2twocents
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+1

This whole thing also has me wondering if this could be what happened to the other Malaysian Airlines plane that went missing a few months ago? It's a long shot to assume that I know, but nobody's found it yet or even come up with any real proof as to what happened to it so it would seem at least a possibility.:2twocents
 
Outcome = Nothing will happen.

Diplomacy. Shaking of heads. Strong words. UN Sanctions. Blah Blah Blah.

In 2007, 38.7% of the European Union's natural gas total imports and 24.3% of consumed natural gas originated from Russia.[1][3] As of 2009, Russian natural gas was delivered to Europe through 12 pipelines, of which three were direct pipelines (to Finland, Estonia and Latvia), four through Belarus (to Lithuania and Poland) and five through Ukraine (to Slovakia, Romania, Hungary and Poland).[3] In 2011, an additional pipeline, Nord Stream (directly to Germany through the Baltic Sea), opened.[4]

The largest importers of Russian gas in the European Union are Germany and Italy, accounting together for almost half of the EU gas imports from Russia. Other larger Russian gas importers (over 5 billion cubic meter per year) in the European Union are France, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Austria and Slovakia.[5][6] The largest non-EU importers of Russian natural gas are Ukraine, Turkey and Belarus.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_in_the_European_energy_sector
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SSU, radio interception of conversations between terrorists, "Boeing-777" plane crash





Tweetbot Catches Russian Government Editing Flight MH17 Wikipedia Info

ktjm6orufp7dx2vt0yio.png


Remember @CongressEdits, the tweetbot that alerts whenever a Wikipedia article is edited from a government IP address? There’s a Russian version now, and it just uncovered some pretty drastic edits to a Wikipedia article that mentions Flight MH17, originating from a Russian government IP address.

As The Telegraph reports, @RuGovEdits tweeted that a computer user from within the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VHTRK) edited the Russian-language version of the Wikipedia entry about the Malaysian Airlines passenger jet shot down over Ukraine yesterday.

The original version of the Wikipedia article listing civil aviation accidents stated that MH17 had been shot down “by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation.” Emphasis added.

The edits originating from the government-owned computer changed the article to read “the plane [flight MH17] was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers“. Again, emphasis added.

@RuGovEdits alerted the public with a tweet that says (translated): “Wikipedia article List of aircraft accidents in civil aviation has been edited by RTR [another name for VGTRK]“.
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Good comments, basilio. Completely agree.

What do others think of Mr Abbott's comments so far? Has he struck the right note? A little too aggressive when we still don't completely understand what happened?
 
basilio said:
When would we like the next world war to start ?
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I think the allies could probably do a bit of targeted bombing without causing WW3. I'm sure the Ukrainians would allow NATO to use its airbases. It would be a pretty high risk strategy to be operating that close to the Russian border. However, they won't for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the US is only really tangentially involved in this, there was one US citizen on board a Malaysian aircraft travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, and there's enough disdain in the US at the moment about being the world's policeman. Secondly, the Europeans have cornered themselves into being dependent on Russian gas. It's not politically palatable to have 80 million Germans freezing this winter when Russia shuts off the gas. That's why they've been so pathetic in tightening sanctions. Hopefully, this crime gives them a kick up the backside.

Longer term, Europe needs to consider how wise it is to hitch your energy requirements to a country run by thugs that seems to be edging closer and closer to being an outright rogue state.
 
Julia said:
Good comments, basilio. Completely agree.

What do others think of Mr Abbott's comments so far? Has he struck the right note? A little too aggressive when we still don't completely understand what happened?
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He's just stating the obvious, no more no less. I would expect any other PM to do the same in those circumstances.

Strange that he has put all the blame on Russia without mentioning that Malaysian airlines was flying over a known trouble spot.
 
McLovin said:
Longer term, Europe needs to consider how wise it is to hitch your energy requirements to a country run by thugs that seems to be edging closer and closer to being an outright rogue state.
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It's like any power imbalance. Personal relationships gone bad, dodgy bosses, drug dealers, energy suppliers, whatever. Whoever has the power knows full well that the other party can't afford the relationship to end, and in that situation you're completely at their mercy over pretty much everything. It's my way or the highway, and you can't afford the highway.:2twocents
 
Maybe keeping the west out of the site is some emerging evidence that the Ukraine government may have downed this plane and would have had an interest in disturbing evidence. Early days still IMV.

This mornings Zero Hedge.
 

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