NBN Rollout Scrapped

[DB008]

I don't believe that copper will be good for another 100 years.
It's only been here some 50 (or 60) or so years and it's already stuffed.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't believe that copper will be good for another 100 years.
It's only been here some 50 (or 60) or so years and it's already stuffed.

What!! your phone isn't working.lol

 

[DB008]

What!! your phone isn't working.lol

LOL!

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes, the copper can be made to keep working for another 100 years. No problems there.

But it's a bit like that 100 year old axe that's had 4 new heads and 5 new handles over its' lifetime.

 

[So_Cynical]

I get the Train to and from work, Sydney metro trains are a mix of the very old and the very new, the 35 year old trains (rattlers i call em) are cold/hot, have little ventilation, no heating A/C, crappy vinyl seats and make a lot of noise...the new Waratah trains are the complete opposite.

Do both trains get me where i need to go? Yes

Is the price to ride both trains the same? Yes

What train do i prefer (what's the better train)? The Waratah...imagine the out cry if the government decided to simply upgrade the old crappy trains with fixed up old crappy trains.

 

[sydboy007]

What train do i prefer (what's the better train)? The Waratah...imagine the out cry if the government decided to simply upgrade the old crappy trains with fixed up old crappy trains.

Exactly! There is no cost to end users with this upgrade.

NBN plans are the same or cheaper than currently ADSL offerings.

Add in the extra stability and knowing the speed you will get and it seems to be a no brainer to me.

Oh, and I love the fact that people can easily move to reliable VOIP and shaft Telstra out of its 90%+ profit margins on calls.

 

[drsmith]

With regards to the physical state of Telstra's copper network, has it been audited in any meaningful form, by anyone ?

On another note, I saw on the ABC a blue (fibre optic ?) cable being laid into a pit with a lot of water in it. This was during a news segment on the state of Telstra's copper network.

 

[NBNMyths]

With regards to the physical state of Telstra's copper network, has it been audited in any meaningful form, by anyone ?

On another note, I saw on the ABC a blue (fibre optic ?) cable being laid into a pit with a lot of water in it. This was during a news segment on the state of Telstra's copper network.

Not that I know of. There is a Telstra worker who documents some of it on his travels:
http://www.canofworms.org/coppermine/

No problem laying fibre in water. They do try to keep the joins dry though to prevent signal loss.

 

[sptrawler]

Not that I know of. There is a Telstra worker who documents some of it on his travels:
http://www.canofworms.org/coppermine/

No problem laying fibre in water. They do try to keep the joins dry though to prevent signal loss.

No problem laying insulated copper in water. They do try to keep the joints dry though to prevent signal loss.

 

[medicowallet]

What train do i prefer (what's the better train)? The Waratah...imagine the out cry if the government decided to simply upgrade the old crappy trains with fixed up old crappy trains.

And those trains were paid for by all people, including those who would never use them.

And then the $$ for those trains stopped spending on vital infrastructure elsewhere.

And all those trains ended at the Chinese Mardi Gras .... sure a sugar hit for a while, but the profits from the fabled mardi Gras goes overseas.

In this scenario, let the Capital city people use their trains (which is already better than the zero public transport we get here in my rural area) as I would prefer to keep local jobs here, and use that vital infrastructure.

MW

 

[So_Cynical]

And those trains were paid for by all people, including those who would never use them.

I think we can say with some confidence that the average 35 year old train has paid for its self about a dozen times over, i pay $150 a month to travel on those pieces of ****.

 

[Aussiejeff]

I think we can say with some confidence that the average 35 year old train has paid for its self about a dozen times over, i pay $150 a month to travel on those pieces of ****.

Or, you could go and live in Mumbai for 12 months and catch the daily rattlers there, to see whether the standard of living we enjoy here with regard to train travel is actually satisfactory in comparison?

 

[sydboy007]

With regards to the physical state of Telstra's copper network, has it been audited in any meaningful form, by anyone ?

On another note, I saw on the ABC a blue (fibre optic ?) cable being laid into a pit with a lot of water in it. This was during a news segment on the state of Telstra's copper network.

I am not aware of any audit being done. I would say Telstra isn't interested in doing one because it would then have to start fixing up any issues it found - a costly exercise.

But without an audit of the copper network, how can MT say that his FTTN is cheaper and going to be faster to install?

There is no estimated maximum cable length in the 2016 rollout to provide 25Mbs speeds - so you can't estimate how many nodes will be required.

The same goes for he 2019 rollout to a minimum of 50Mbs.

To be honest, if the Liberals are in later this year, I'd prefer them to be honest and say they don't see the point of ubiquitous fast broadband, and just can the whole rollout and leave it till the public pushes hard enough that this is a policy are they want action taken on.

About the only area I can see FTTN being worthwhile may be some of the larger towns getting fixed wireless that may be better served by using FTTN. I only say this because the Govt has committed to keeping the copper working for phone services so it might be cheaper to use FTTN over fixed wireless.

 

[DB008]

Parliament Arguing About Copper Wires In 1910 Makes For Some Amazing Reading

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/06/parliament-arguing-about-copper-wires-in-1910-makes-for-some-amazing-reading/

 

[So_Cynical]

Or, you could go and live in Mumbai for 12 months and catch the daily rattlers there, to see whether the standard of living we enjoy here with regard to train travel is actually satisfactory in comparison?

Tell you what, i was in Manila (The Philippines) 3 weeks ago and travelled on all 3 of the Metro lines there (3 different operators) and will make the following points.

ALL the trains i travelled in were less then 15 years old, ALL were air conditioned and ALL ran on time, ok there was a little over crowding in the afternoon peak but it was air conditioned over crowding and my ticket only cost me 40c


So on a like for like basis the Sydney Metro train service is expensive and second rate to a third world country.

-----------------

Oh and on Topic, in certain parts of Manila (Philippines third world country) i can get a fibre connection to my home, 200Mbps

 

[NBNMyths]

Parliament Arguing About Copper Wires In 1910 Makes For Some Amazing Reading

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/06/parliament-arguing-about-copper-wires-in-1910-makes-for-some-amazing-reading/

Isn't the similarity to the debate today absolutely amazing?

James Mathews MP:
Some time ago I met a gentleman who came here from the Old Country, who ridiculed the expensive practice of using copper wire where iron wire would do...

Thomas Brown MP
Copper is used for greater efficiency.

James Mathews MP:
The practical men in the Department, not the theorists, think that nothing is gained by using copper wire for short lines. Some of the iron wire lines have been in use for thirty years, and give as good results now as copper wire lines. Last year an iron wire line, put up when I was a boy, to connect the Age office with Mr. David Syme’s house on the Yarra, at Hawthorn, was still giving satisfactory results, although for a good part of its length it ran parallel with the railway line, and was exposed to the smoke of locomotives, which was prejudicial to its life.

Does this look more familiar?

Malcolm Turnbull MP:
Some time ago I met a gentleman who came here from the Old Country, who ridiculed the expensive practice of using optical fibre where copper wire would do...

Sen Stephen Conroy
optical fibre is used for greater efficiency.

Malcolm Turnbull MP:
The practical men in the Department, not the theorists, think that nothing is gained by using optical fibre for short lines. Some of the copper wire lines have been in use for thirty years, and give as good results now as optical fibre lines. Last year an copper wire line, put up when I was a boy, to connect the Age office with Mr. David Syme’s house on the Yarra, at Hawthorn, was still giving satisfactory results, although for a good part of its length it ran parallel with the railway line, and was exposed to the smoke of locomotives, which was prejudicial to its life.

At least back in 1910, common sense ruled over backward thinking. I suspect that when my great-grand children look back on the hansards and newspapers of 2013, the Abbott brigade will look rather stupid.

 

[Aussiejeff]

I suspect that when my great-grand children look back on the hansards and newspapers of 2013, the Abbott brigade will look rather stupid.

Gee. I wonder how the Gillard rabble will look in comparison?

So, how's that NBN rollout going Myths? On time, on target?

 

[NBNMyths]

Gee. I wonder how the Gillard rabble will look in comparison?

So, how's that NBN rollout going Myths? On time, on target?

Pretty well, I would think. History probably won't remember all the petty squabbling, because it usually doesn't.

However, it will remember the 23,000 new school buildings, the renewable energy generation, the Optical Fibre NBN (even if incomplete), the 12% superannuation and DisabilityCare.


The NBN's not going too badly. It's on budget and in most areas is now running on target (admittedly, the revised-down targets of earlier this year rather than the originals). Takeup is way ahead of forecasts, and ARPU is also ahead of forecasts. They've just activated the 25Mbps option on the wireless service, which is double the promised speed and was activated ahead of schedule.

Of course, no-one would be happier than myself if the fibre rollout were going faster, but such is the way with essentially every major infrastructure project, be it public or private. If the Coalition can achieve a faster rollout of the real NBN, then all the better. But they won't.

 

[drsmith]

However, it will remember the 23,000 new school buildings, the renewable energy generation, the Optical Fibre NBN (even if incomplete), the 12% superannuation and DisabilityCare.

Don't forget the pink batts and a profitable illegal people smuggling business model through SE Asia.

It's fine to have vision, but not at any cost.

With regard to the physical state of Telstra's copper network, it's clear from the above posts that no one knows it's actual state. That could mean that a Liberal government could end up laying more fibre than it's current plan suggests, but at the same time it's not confirmation that the copper should be discarded as a whole based on it's physical state.

 

[NBNMyths]

With regard to the physical state of Telstra's copper network, it's clear from the above posts that no one knows it's actual state. That could mean that a Liberal government could end up laying more fibre than it's current plan suggests, but at the same time it's not confirmation that the copper should be discarded as a whole based on it's physical state.

Its physical state is but one parameter. Even in a good state, the capability of copper pairs is limited. Last time I saw data, 44% of NBN fibre connections so far had chosen the 100/40Mbps speed and a further 23% had chosen 50/20Mbps. That's 67% of users that have chosen a speed tier that's essentially not possible over copper pairs. Even brand-new copper. And it's only 2013! What will the demand curve look like in a decade?