NBN Rollout Scrapped

[Calliope]

You will just have to get over it, on 25Mbps, princess leigh and the dark night will kick your butt.
However Australia may save $25B, tough break but we have to move on.

Myths will never get over it. How he ever championed a project that has never been subjected to a cost-benefit analysis shows he is away with the fairies, and certainly no business man. All he has is faith in Conroy.

 

[medicowallet]

Hey NBNMyths,

Has anyone done any analysis on the increased consumption vs increased exports driven by the NBN in cities where it has been rolled out.

I mean has Armidale seen a boom in economic development, or is it exporting it services to India?

The elephant in the room is the future billions of dollars going overseas with the increased consumption enabled by the NBN.

MW

 

[NBNMyths]

You will just have to get over it, on 25Mbps, princess leigh and the dark night will kick your butt.
However Australia may save $25B, tough break but we have to move on.

Myths will never get over it. How he ever championed a project that has never been subjected to a cost-benefit analysis shows he is away with the fairies, and certainly no business man. All he has is faith in Conroy.

I assume that's a reference to an online game? Sorry, I think I've only ever played one online game, and that was many years ago.

I'm more concerned that the image files that currently take 12-14 hours to upload to a client, will still take 6 hours on FTTN instead of 12 minutes on FTTP. But, I guess that's only 5-odd hours of lost productivity for them. Tough break.

And no, Australia won;t save $25bn. We may defer it for a few years, but sooner or later it will be spent, plus another $10 or $15bn thanks to inflation and scrapping of redundant equipment. Tough break.

Alas, even though my area has now been scheduled for the NBN, I think I'll be stuck on copper for another decade or so. C'est la vie.


I believe I've asked you before, Calliope, how one could do a valid CBA on an enabling tech like the NBN? How would it be possible to value uses for the network that have not yet been invented? Or do you think every possible use for broadband is already here? I guess that would be the case under So Cynical's frighteningly accurate description of the conservative rear view perspective.

Also interesting that the coalition have a policy for their NBN, also without a CBA. If the CBA hasn't been done, how can they have a policy? How do they know what the outcome will be?

Lucky you weren't around when the Australian Government were proposing to spend the same amount of money (per capita, inflation adjusted) rolling out the copper network. What a horrendous waste of money for a unnecessary new-fangled technology that could only ever be used for people to spread worthless gossip..... Maybe your grandpa was there for the occasion though...


The parallels with the NBN debate are astounding. Just replace "messengers" with "copper", and it could have been written today.

 

[NBNMyths]

Hey NBNMyths,

Has anyone done any analysis on the increased consumption vs increased exports driven by the NBN in cities where it has been rolled out.

I mean has Armidale seen a boom in economic development, or is it exporting it services to India?

The elephant in the room is the future billions of dollars going overseas with the increased consumption enabled by the NBN.

MW

I doubt anyone has done such a study.

But are you advocating then that we artificially stymie technological progress on that hypothesis?

That'll work.

 

[Calliope]

I believe I've asked you before, Calliope, how one could do a valid CBA on an enabling tech like the NBN? How would it be possible to value uses for the network that have not yet been invented? Or do you think every possible use for broadband is already here? I guess that would be the case under So Cynical's frighteningly accurate description of the conservative rear view perspective.

Also interesting that the coalition have a policy for their NBN, also without a CBA. If the CBA hasn't been done, how can they have a policy? How do they know what the outcome will be?

Lucky you weren't around when the Australian Government were proposing to spend the same amount of money (per capita, inflation adjusted) rolling out the copper network. What a horrendous waste of money for a unnecessary new-fangled technology that could only ever be used for people to spread worthless gossip..... Maybe your grandpa was there for the occasion though...The parallels with the NBN debate are astounding. Just replace "messengers" with "copper", and it could have been written today.

I note the hysteria setting in. Like that odious spin doctor David McTernan, your ten minutes of fame is coming to an end.

malus bonum ubi se simulat, tunc est pessimus

 

[NBNMyths]

I believe I've asked you before, Calliope, how one could do a valid CBA on an enabling tech like the NBN? How would it be possible to value uses for the network that have not yet been invented? Or do you think every possible use for broadband is already here? I guess that would be the case under So Cynical's frighteningly accurate description of the conservative rear view perspective.

Also interesting that the coalition have a policy for their NBN, also without a CBA. If the CBA hasn't been done, how can they have a policy? How do they know what the outcome will be?

I suspected you would have no answer for the above, and would resort to your standard response in such situations, an ad-hom....

I note the hysteria setting in. Like that odious spin doctor David McTernan, your ten minutes of fame is coming to an end.

malus bonum ubi se simulat, tunc est pessimus ("a bad man, when he pretends to be a good man, is the worst man of all")

Tick.

 

[Calliope]

Your guide and mentor Stephen Conroy, with whom you share an aversion to cost/benefit analyses, will be history if Rudd ousts Gillard. In any case he and Quigley and yourself will be irrelevant after the election.

COMMUNICATIONS Minister Stephen Conroy will refuse to serve on the front bench if Kevin Rudd is successful in wresting the prime ministership from Julia Gillard.

Senator Conroy acknowledged the government had failed to sell its message properly on a range of issues including the economy, education funding reform and the national broadband network.

I think you must share the blame Myths. In any case fecistis cultioribus

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...owdown-next-week/story-fn59niix-1226668264371

 

[NBNMyths]

Your guide and mentor Stephen Conroy, with whom you share an aversion to cost/benefit analyses, will be history if Rudd ousts Gillard.

As opposed to having an aversion to debating the facts/policy, rather than personally attacking the person you disagree with? It's the sign of a very weak argument. Amusing though.

 

[Calliope]

'Aversion to debating facts''??? How do you debate facts? It sounds oxymoronic to me.:shake: Anyway, you are not for turning, so I will be happy to let the electors decide the Conroy/Turnbull issue... may the best facts and policies win. OK?

 

[sptrawler]

Was it the unions that put a stop to the nbn rollout, with regard asbestos?

The unions are now saying the copper has to have plastic bags to stop water ingress.

Rings of another blow the feet off moment for the unions and Labor, we can't have either

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-...rk-in-a-state-of-disrepair-say-unions/4774342

 

[NBNMyths]

'Aversion to debating facts''??? How do you debate facts? It sounds oxymoronic to me.:shake: Anyway, you are not for turning, so I will be happy to let the electors decide the Conroy/Turnbull issue... may the best facts and policies win. OK?

Yes, because the result of the September election will be decided on a single policy, the NBN.

 

[NBNMyths]

Was it the unions that put a stop to the nbn rollout, with regard asbestos?

The unions are now saying the copper has to have plastic bags to stop water ingress.

Rings of another blow the feet off moment for the unions and Labor, we can't have either

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-...rk-in-a-state-of-disrepair-say-unions/4774342

NBN work hasn't stopped. Telstra asbestos remediation stopped for a time, but is underway again now I believe (I saw Theiss contractors replacing Telstra ducts in Richmond NSW yesterday).

All the unions asked for was for the Telstra workers to get proper asbestos handling training, which seems rather logical.

Telstra have long used plastic bags and other bits and pieces to try to keep water out. That's the big problem with copper. When water gets into the joints, it causes corrosion and signal degradation. That's why Telstra's fault rates go through the roof in wet weather.

 

[sptrawler]

I assume that's a reference to an online game? Sorry, I think I've only ever played one online game, and that was many years ago.

I'm more concerned that the image files that currently take 12-14 hours to upload to a client, will still take 6 hours on FTTN instead of 12 minutes on FTTP. But, I guess that's only 5-odd hours of lost productivity for them. Tough break.

And no, Australia won;t save $25bn. We may defer it for a few years, but sooner or later it will be spent, plus another $10 or $15bn thanks to inflation and scrapping of redundant equipment. Tough break.

.

I must appoligise, I thought the coalition has said business will get fibre, only residential will still utilise copper?
Therefore to upload your image to your client shouldn't be any slower, under Labor or the coalition.

Also I thought they said if a person wished to have fibre to the home, they could pay for it to be installed from the node.

The cost to run fibre to the home has just gone up exponentionally, with the asbestos issue.
Wouldn't you think?

 

[sptrawler]

NBN work hasn't stopped. Telstra asbestos remediation stopped for a time, but is underway again now I believe (I saw Theiss contractors replacing Telstra ducts in Richmond NSW yesterday).

All the unions asked for was for the Telstra workers to get proper asbestos handling training, which seems rather logical.

Telstra have long used plastic bags and other bits and pieces to try to keep water out. That's the big problem with copper. When water gets into the joints, it causes corrosion and signal degradation. That's why Telstra's fault rates go through the roof in wet weather.

Yes I saw a heap of NBN workers the other day, you can see they are on a time not lengh based contract.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, just have been around long enough to know, it ain't going to happen.
Well I should qualify that, not in my lifetime.

By the way, I know the issues with copper on low voltage systems, also know how usefull matchsticks are in pabx stepping relays.

 

[DB008]

Copper good for 100 years, says Thodey
http://delimiter.com.au/2013/06/21/copper-good-for-100-years-says-thodey/


Unions raise doubts over Telstra's copper network; workers using plastic bags to waterproof cables

Unions have told the ABC that Telstra's copper network is in a state of disrepair, with workers at the coalface of the infrastructure using plastic bags to protect cables from water.

The telecommunications pits have been nicknamed 'bag-dad' by contractors because of the plastic bags, that are in theory supposed to keep the water out.

The copper network is a crucial element of the Opposition's alternative broadband plan.

But Shane Murphy, the assistant secretary of CEPU's New South Wales branch, says as far as he is concerned, there is no other option than to replace the ageing copper wires.

"Unless we do it, customers around western Sydney and across Australia will have poor internet and phone services for many many years ahead," he said.

 

[sptrawler]

Copper good for 100 years, says Thodey
http://delimiter.com.au/2013/06/21/copper-good-for-100-years-says-thodey/


Unions raise doubts over Telstra's copper network; workers using plastic bags to waterproof cables

Yes Danny IMO, the union is trying to backfill the hole they dug with the asbestos scare, putting the fibre roll out in doubt.

 

[NBNMyths]

I must appoligise, I thought the coalition has said business will get fibre, only residential will still utilise copper?
Therefore to upload your image to your client shouldn't be any slower, under Labor or the coalition.

Also I thought they said if a person wished to have fibre to the home, they could pay for it to be installed from the node.

The cost to run fibre to the home has just gone up exponentionally, with the asbestos issue.
Wouldn't you think?

They are saying business centres will still get fibre, not businesses per se. Although they haven't defined a centre.

My business runs out of a residential property, and therefore won't get FTTP under the coalition. My only possible saviour will be if NBN Co renew the NSW FTTP rollout contract for 3+ years, since my suburb is scheduled to begin rollout in June 2015. I'm not holding my breath.

Turnbull has said that they would offer user-pays FTTP, but no details have been provided ie:
Is it a flat rate, or based on individual circumstances;
Does the 'first' user have to cover the cost of the GPON module and related hardware?;
Does Telstra still pay to remediate their pit&pipe? (or, if not);
Does the first user have to cover the cost of pit&pipe remediation?;
Can users install their own FTTP upgrade?;
Will the usage costs be the same as existing NBN FTTP areas?;

Then Abbott said in parliament during the asbestos blowup that under their policy "the last 500m would not be disturbed". So how can they offer FTTP upgrades at all?

There's no reason why the asbestos issue should add to costs. Telstra are paying for it. They already knew it was there and budgeted for it in their remediation costings, which they have estimated at $2bn. They've already been remediating it for 20 years as required, and for 3 years of the NBN rollout. The only issue that came to bite them was a few untrained contractors, which they have now addressed (or claim to have).

 

[sptrawler]

They are saying business centres will still get fibre, not businesses per se. Although they haven't defined a centre.

My business runs out of a residential property, and therefore won't get FTTP under the coalition. My only possible saviour will be if NBN Co renew the NSW FTTP rollout contract for 3+ years, since my suburb is scheduled to begin rollout in June 2015. I'm not holding my breath.

Turnbull has said that they would offer user-pays FTTP, but no details have been provided ie:
Is it a flat rate, or based on individual circumstances;
Does the 'first' user have to cover the cost of the GPON module and related hardware?;
Does Telstra still pay to remediate their pit&pipe? (or, if not);
Does the first user have to cover the cost of pit&pipe remediation?;
Can users install their own FTTP upgrade?;
Will the usage costs be the same as existing NBN FTTP areas?;

Then Abbott said in parliament during the asbestos blowup that under their policy "the last 500m would not be disturbed". So how can they offer FTTP upgrades at all?

There's no reason why the asbestos issue should add to costs. Telstra are paying for it. They already knew it was there and budgeted for it in their remediation costings, which they have estimated at $2bn. They've already been remediating it for 20 years as required, and for 3 years of the NBN rollout. The only issue that came to bite them was a few untrained contractors, which they have now addressed (or claim to have).

As to who covers the cost of the GPON, who knows?
I do know I built a house on a rural block 30 years ago and had to contribute a deposit to the rural supply scheme.
Funny enough, it was only about 6 months ago I recieved a cheque in the mail, which was my refund.lol

I will stick my neck out and say you will have a better chance of fibre to the home, with the fibre to the node model.
The fibre to the home model will blow out beyond belief, IMO, and will end up with the whole scheme abandoned.
Like I say, only my opinion, but fibre to the node is a chewable sized project.

 

[Julia]

Yes, because the result of the September election will be decided on a single policy, the NBN.

I disagree. It's but one of several fronts on which the government will almost certainly lose. Control of our borders is a main issue with much of the population, plus undue influence of unions, the carbon tax and probably even Gonski.

 

[NBNMyths]

I disagree. It's but one of several fronts on which the government will almost certainly lose. Control of our borders is a main issue with much of the population, plus undue influence of unions, the carbon tax and probably even Gonski.

Perhaps my sarcasm was too subtle. Of course the result will be based on numerous factors.