The Gillard Government

[Ves]

Ves - if that is so, then please explain to me why Gillard AND Swan stated NO CARBON TAX repeatedly days before the election if they intended to price carbon by any mechanism and did not mean a word they said? Gillard's no carbon tax ads gave the impression they were shelving their carbon pricing policies - at least for this term.

Many people don't read the fine print on political sites. They take the publicised ads to represent each party's major policies. I wonder if Gillard would have even got 72 seats if she had been honest about her plans to price carbon before the election instead of broadcasting something she clearly didn't mean at all?

Surely, it's not that hard to see what you are missing? The majority of voters can see it very clearly...

I found this article (day before the election) titled "Julia Gillard's Carbon Price Promise"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...on-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

She alludes to the fact in this interview that she will be using a fixed price mechanism (as distinct from a tax). I think both parties in the year's leading up to this have alluding to the fact that they would have similar ideas (but different implementation). I find it hard to see how this came as such a big surprise for anyone who follows politics and could be considered an "informed voter."

The biggest misnomer here in that interview is the issue of timing of its implementation (which is clearly ahead of schedule).

I guess the question is (eternally) - should people take more responsibility for their choices (also should the media's presentation do the same)? I think in this case the answers were there for astute voters. It also proves that democracy falls down in the fact that people do not think for themselves and are easily mislead.

 

[drsmith]

I found this article (day before the election) titled "Julia Gillard's Carbon Price Promise"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...on-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

While any carbon price would not be triggered until after the 2013 election, Ms Gillard would have two potential legislative partners next term - the Coalition or the Greens. She would legislate the carbon price next term if sufficient consensus existed.

A problem for serial liars is the more they twist and turn, the deeper is the hole they dig for themselves.

The electorate will slaughter Labor at the next election on this point alone.

 

[drsmith]

I am having a very hard time looking at Abbott as a credible leader.

I have trouble seeing the Coalition as a credible alternative at the present time, but, as always, it's a choice between the alternatives on the table.

Hopefully there will be some visible improve as we move closer to the election.

 

[moXJO]

I have trouble seeing the Coalition as a credible alternative at the present time, but, as always, it's a choice between the alternatives on the table.

Hopefully there will be some visible improve as we move closer to the election.

I am hoping the team behind them will be able to make the inroads to change. I don't want Abbott being some kind of factional dictator style PM as Rudd or Gillard have been. Abbott still leaves a very bitter taste.
Libs policy on small business has my vote though. That and the lack of union interference in policy.

 

[Ves]

A problem for serial liars is the more they twist and turn, the deeper is the hole they dig for themselves.

The electorate will slaughter Labor at the next election on this point alone.

Why is timing so important, though? The policy (of some sort) was inevitable under both parties IMO, it is just that Labour were the one to put it into action. I believe the Liberal party would have done the same, and if this happened, it would be Labour slamming it. Unfortunately this is the nature of oppositional political systems, it isn't so much about developing policy, but more about developing policy that has the least likelihood of being slammed by the opposition's word games.

 

[drsmith]

The Coalition would not have introduced a carbon tax in this term had it won the 2010 election.

To suggest otherwise is fantasy, or hysterical nonsense, to use Wayne Swan's words.

 

[Ves]

The Coalition would not have introduced a carbon tax in this term had it won the 2010 election.

To suggest otherwise is fantasy.

Probably correct - I should preface my previous comment with that. Certainly becomes more probable in a hypothetical post-2013 term though. But we will never know now.

 

[Calliope]

I am hoping the team behind them will be able to make the inroads to change. I don't want Abbott being some kind of factional dictator style PM as Rudd or Gillard have been. Abbott still leaves a very bitter taste.
Libs policy on small business has my vote though. That and the lack of union interference in policy.

Abbott's biggest problem is how to handle Fair Work Australia which is controlled by the unions. Less than 20% of the workforce belong to unions. In the private sector, union density barely reaches double figures, and yet they control the Labor government, and can make or break a PM. The future doesn't look good for the private sector or small business

The union movement poured millions of dollars into removing Howard and abolishing Work Choices and even with their limited membership they run Industrial Relations policies. As is being demonstrated in Queensland the don't take kindly to governments who support business enterprise, or efficiency in the Public Service.

IR policy will be the litmus test for Abbott, and on this issue he is running scared - with no answers.

 

[drsmith]

Probably correct - I should preface my previous comment with that. Certainly becomes more probable in a hypothetical post-2013 term though. But we will never know now.

What happens post-2013 depends on a number of factors, but at this stage I would be backing an Abbott led coalition trying to repeal it. Regardless of whether or not a carbon price floats long term, the electorate is left with the bitter taste of Labor's words during the 2010 election campaign and its subsequent actions. That's a taste the electorate will be very keen to remove when it gets a chance at the polls.

In comparing how Howard intorduced the GST to how Gillard introduced the carbon tax, the bottom line is the GST was a risk for Howard while the carbon tax will be suicide for Gillard.

One difference is that Howard took the GST to an election.

 

[drsmith]

IR policy will be the litmus test for Abbott, and on this issue he is running scared - with no answers.

The Coalition is setting itself up to have to provide answers in a lot of policy areas as we move closer to the election.

Hopefully, those answers will be a significant improvement on being no Bill Gates.

 

[sails]

...The difference is that Howard took the GST to an election.

And he didn't promise no GST and then bring it in against the will of the people (as Gillard defied opinion polls at the time). Clearly, Gillard and Swan saw the need to lie to the electorate about their real intentions to price carbon just prior to the election as they were scared of not getting enough votes. Surely, that is a slap in the face to democracy which ever way one looks at it?

Newspoll - 21-23 Oct 2011 (two weeks prior to Gillard legislating her unwanted tax in early November 2011) - 59% of voters were AGAINST. Only 32% in favour and the rest undecided.

http://www.newspoll.com.au/image_uploads/111006 Carbon Price.pdf

 

[Julia]

Libs policy on small business has my vote though. That and the lack of union interference in policy.

+1. Offset, sadly, by his ridiculous maternity leave scheme.

Why is timing so important, though? The policy (of some sort) was inevitable under both parties IMO, it is just that Labour were the one to put it into action. I believe the Liberal party would have done the same, and if this happened, it would be Labour slamming it.

You are ignoring a fundamental point which is that when the Libs floated the notion of any sort of carbon abatement scheme it was at the time when the world focus on so called anthropogenic climate change was at its zenith. Then came Copenhagen and it all fell in a heap. The interest by governments and people since then has continued to slide, so that - as I'm quite sure you know - Australia has introduced a carbon tax at a ridiculously high level in an global atmosphere of complete rejection of any sort of global scheme. Australia is thus, as you will also well know, thus considerably disadvantaged in competitive terms.

If you can't see why this makes people angry, Ves, there's little point in any of us trying to further explain it to you.

If the Libs take office and are able to repeal the carbon tax, I'll be unsurprised if they at the same time drop their 'direct action' policy on AGW. I hope they do.

 

[moXJO]

+1. Offset, sadly, by his ridiculous maternity leave scheme.


.

Agree he also goes out of the way to rabidly stand behind schemes leaving him no wriggle room.
You are left wondering what effect he will have over the economy. It's a horrible choice come election time

 

[DB008]

You do realise that that clip of Gillard is cut off mid-sentence right?

Absolutely hilarious that people are still posting something that has been taken completely out of context.

Vespuria - you should also know that when it comes to politics, it doesn't matter if it's cut off mid-sentence, 1/4 sentence, 3/4 sentence - it's what she said on National TV, at that particular moment in time, that will stick in the minds of the general public come election time.
Average Joe doesn't care about this or that policy. They watch Channel 7/9 news, Desperate Housewives/The Block, Home & Away and see Gillard tell a lie.

*Edit*
A good example of this was the GST 'Cake Question'

 

[sptrawler]

Unfortunately for Ms Gillard, I think the problem has gone past the carbon tax issue. I think the public is genuinely fed up with her school maam manner and the supercillious attitude. This also supports their belief that the labor party in general are guttless and hiding behind her.
Australians in general don't like bullies and their cronies telling everyone what to do.
The one thing this government has done is unite the country to fight the common enemy, problem is it is them.

 

[Ves]

Vespuria - you should also know that when it comes to politics, it doesn't matter if it's cut off mid-sentence, 1/4 sentence, 3/4 sentence - it's what she said on National TV, at that particular moment in time, that will stick in the minds of the general public come election time.
Average Joe doesn't care about this or that policy. They watch Channel 7/9 news, Desperate Housewives/The Block, Home & Away and see Gillard tell a lie.

*Edit*
A good example of this was the GST 'Cake Question'

Some of the psychological studies of this kind of thing are pretty fascinating. That's probably where my interest in politics lies... the core of perception and how different people read different things into it all. The shadows on Plato's cave live on.

 

[noco]

Where is Julia Gillard this week

They say she has taken a well earned break.

Is it not a bit unusual for a Prime Minister to have a holiday mid year?

Maybe it is too hot in the kitchen.

 

[MrBurns]

Where is Julia Gillard this week

They say she has taken a well earned break.

Is it not a bit unusual for a Prime Minister to have a holiday mid year?

Maybe it is too hot in the kitchen.

The Olympics have taken centre stage but she will be back in the firing line soon, especially with all the info about her past starting to surface.
Labor have real problems, they need to replace her without looking like complete fools, good luck with that.

 

[Surly]

Any policy the Libs put forward at this point in time is going to be tempered with the same sentences as the when the Hawke/Keating government ended.

"We really won't how or if this can be costed until we have a chance to see the real state of things after we are eleceted."

Given the grasp the ALP do not appear to have on any manner of accounting or accountability this will be completely believable.

cheers
Surly

 

[joea]

Where is Julia Gillard this week

They say she has taken a well earned break.

Is it not a bit unusual for a Prime Minister to have a holiday mid year?

Maybe it is too hot in the kitchen.

I think she is up in Port Douglas. I am 12 klms away, so it might my chance to knobble her.
She is trying to get known in Qld. lol.
joea