Guns

[rumpole]

Jefferson is a dead American, Burnsy is a cool dude Aussie and well respected on ASF....... I go for Burnsy!

Burnsy for PM !!!

 

[MrBurns]

Burnsy for PM !!!

I humbly accept the nomination and would all donations please be passed by backhander in a brown paper bag in the time honored tradition.

Rumpy your planning permit has just been approved and Bill M of course you can put a
3rd story on your block of flats don't give the parking requirements a second thought.

 

[bandicoot76]

So with all these "immigrant friends" that would make you 80 years old, is that about right?:

i'm not 80 but my german friends are and have shared their experiences with me since i was a boy

i also have a dutch mate in his 80s who survived as an orphan on the docks of potsdam under nazi occupation who has shared his experiences with me on many occasions and even shown me the scars left on him from his ordeals in his quest just to survive

i have both serbian & croation friends in their 60s who have told me of their ordeals

a ukranian mate in his 70s who told me of his hardships under communism

so dont get all high and mighty trying to discredit my position in a sarcastic ad hominem attack....... the points you made in rest of your post i have covered before and couldnt be bothered repeating my position to an obviously uninterested audience.

lets just hope that the current good times (post WWII) last because you people would obviously be totally unprepared to face any hardship and would be the first ones to squeal 'help me, help me' should the sh*t ever hit the fan.

 

[Bill M]

i'm not 80 but my german friends are and have shared their experiences with me since i was a boy

i also have a dutch mate in his 80s who survived as an orphan on the docks of potsdam under nazi occupation who has shared his experiences with me on many occasions and even shown me the scars left on him from his ordeals in his quest just to survive

i have both serbian & croation friends in their 60s who have told me of their ordeals

a ukranian mate in his 70s who told me of his hardships under communism

so dont get all high and mighty trying to discredit my position in a sarcastic ad hominem attack...

Ok, so you have friends who have experienced the horrors of war, persecution and communism, I feel for them too but we do live in Australia and we do not have these threats. Whether you like it or not this question must be answered. Do you not have faith in our Police forces or the Defence Forces to sort these problems should they arise?

.... the points you made in rest of your post i have covered before and couldnt be bothered repeating my position to an obviously uninterested audience.

You haven't covered them here.

lets just hope that the current good times (post WWII) last because you people would obviously be totally unprepared to face any hardship and would be the first ones to squeal 'help me, help me' should the sh*t ever hit the fan.

Where will the hardship come from and why do you think a fully complimented armed forces won't be able to deal with it?

 

[bandicoot76]

you are obviously not really interested in my posts other than to rip the p*ss out of them and im not a masochist so i couldnt be bothered wasting my time on a pointless exercise... all the answers can be found by taking your own advice and really understsanding the quote that you have pasted at the bottom of your posts:

"There's one thing we have learnt from history, it's that we don't learn from history."

do some research and i might be tempted to have a proper discussion with you... but probly not, as from my experience it takes a major shock for people to actually consider that their own personal perspective may be biased or limited in scope

 

[bandicoot76]

my last post on this thread:

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
― Thomas Jefferson

 

[CanOz]

my last post on this thread:

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Good on ya coot! I may not agree with your views but I would defend to the death, your right to express them!

CanOz

 

[Julia]

The answer is totally restricting them to those who really need them, Police, Defence Force Members, Farmers - Collectors - sporting shooters all with licenses and DEFINITELY no one with a criminal record of any sort.

Bill, do you seriously think people with a criminal record would be unable to lay their hands on firearms just because they cannot access them legally? Surely you're not so naive?

Jefferson is a dead American, Burnsy is a cool dude Aussie and well respected on ASF....... I go for Burnsy!

With no disrespect to Mr Burns, if you dismiss the wisdom of anyone who is no longer living you're making a huge mistake. Much of Jefferson's advice is entirely applicable today imo.

i'm not 80 but my german friends are and have shared their experiences with me since i was a boy

i also have a dutch mate in his 80s who survived as an orphan on the docks of potsdam under nazi occupation who has shared his experiences with me on many occasions and even shown me the scars left on him from his ordeals in his quest just to survive

i have both serbian & croation friends in their 60s who have told me of their ordeals

a ukranian mate in his 70s who told me of his hardships under communism

Yes, let's remember that e.g. the Baltic states, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, were only liberated from Soviet oppression in 1991 when the Soviet Union fell apart.

Unless you have known people who lived under this sort of regime, I don't think it's possible for you to understand what they went through.

Imo Bandicoot is expressing a legitimate view, though perhaps a bit removed from the topic of carrying guns, and I find it a bit hard to see why his genuinely held and expressed remarks should be treated with such derision, sarcasm and scorn.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Much of Jefferson's advice is entirely applicable today imo.

You know, I couldn't agree more. Here are my favourites;

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies...

 

[Glen48]

The main drawback with owning a gun is unless you are like Jesse James and have it in a holster so you have it with you there s not much point in owning the thing, if some one turns up at your door with a gun and you have to go get the key to unlock the safe/gun cabinet it could be all over for you and you could be all over walls and ceiling.
Maybe that's why Yanks need to have one in every room and car.

 

[bandicoot76]

Imo Bandicoot is expressing a legitimate view, though perhaps a bit removed from the topic of carrying guns, and I find it a bit hard to see why his genuinely held and expressed remarks should be treated with such derision, sarcasm and scorn.

ok one last post since julia has posted a positive response....just to clarify my position:

from my perspective burns, bill & co have an irrational fear of an inanimate object.. the gun...
whereas my position is that i feel i am rationally fearful of any person, or group of people, who are capable of using that said gun, or any other weapon, to carry out acts of violence against another person or group of people. be it an individual, group or even government who is responsible.

in a simpler way it boils down to the fact that i am unconcerned about a civilian having a rifle to shoot a rabbit for the pot, but i am concerned about a criminal with a machine-pistol, an over zealous cop with a taser or even a government who decides to enact martial law against its own citizens as a response to internal political protest or peaceful dissent!

bill & co's view is that a gun makes a criminal lethal, my view is that the criminal makes the gun lethal... not only the criminal but anyone psychotic enough to use it against a fellow human being without just cause. that includes govt employees!

you see the difference? bill, burns and co are labelling 90% of the community as being so unstable that they have the potential to become a criminal/psycho/safety threat should they ever even be allowed access to guns, .... i'm saying that i dont care if 90% of the community have guns as long as the 10% of the community who are prepared to use them to harm others, such as criminals or people with psychiatric problems, are excluded from access to not only guns but ANY form of weaponry. thats where jails and asylums come into play.


the end!

 

[AbrasiveCamel]

Australian gun laws are disgusting. Heavily restrict people with a legitimate interest in gun ownership and do not a single thing to curb illegal firearms.

Although still restrictive New Zealand has a far superior model of gun control.

 

[Bill M]

Bill, do you seriously think people with a criminal record would be unable to lay their hands on firearms just because they cannot access them legally? Surely you're not so naive?

Of course not, criminals can obtain anything with complete disregard to the law. However making guns available legally to them just doesn't make sense.

With no disrespect to Mr Burns, if you dismiss the wisdom of anyone who is no longer living you're making a huge mistake. Much of Jefferson's advice is entirely applicable today imo.

Fair enough but I have no interest in anything he had to say.

Yes, let's remember that e.g. the Baltic states, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, were only liberated from Soviet oppression in 1991 when the Soviet Union fell apart.

Unless you have known people who lived under this sort of regime, I don't think it's possible for you to understand what they went through.

Yes I do people like this but we are talking about guns here and I know very well what they went through.

 

[Bill M]

you see the difference? bill, burns and co are labelling 90% of the community as being so unstable that they have the potential to become a criminal/psycho/safety threat should they ever even be allowed access to guns, .... i'm saying that i dont care if 90% of the community have guns as long as the 10% of the community who are prepared to use them to harm others, such as criminals or people with psychiatric problems, are excluded from access to not only guns but ANY form of weaponry. thats where jails and asylums come into play.

You are entitled to your view and I am entitled to mine. Letting the general public own guns is unnecessary and stupid. Just ask any Police Officer if they think it is a good idea to have the whole community armed. They would be totally against it and so am I. I can just imagine it, armed neighbourhood watch guys going around taking the law into there own hands just like the 17 year old boy that was shot coming home from the shops, no thank you. Post 8, click here.

 

[MrBurns]

not worth a comment

But you did

If you think having guns will keep the peace you're crazy, why, if I had one I would have shot a dozen people by now myself

 

[Glen48]

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/17136115/two-charged-in-connection-with-attempted-murder
and then you get all the grey areas liike this which ties up court,. poliice, and other officials..

 

[MrBurns]

AND another thing, we aren't allowed to have fireworks these days and you think guns are ok ?

 

[AbrasiveCamel]

You are entitled to your view and I am entitled to mine. Letting the general public own guns is unnecessary and stupid.

Why should people be disallowed from owning and using guns responsibly?

Just ask any Police Officer if they think it is a good idea to have the whole community armed. They would be totally against it and so am I.

Who cares what police think? They're job is to enforce law not make law or critically analyse it. I'm sure if paramedics had their way motorbikes would be outlawed.

I can just imagine it, armed neighbourhood watch guys going around taking the law into there own hands just like the 17 year old boy that was shot coming home from the shops, no thank you. Post 8, click here.

So in other words you are imagining the US and not any number of other nations that have responsible gun ownership and low rates of gun and violent crime?

 

[MrBurns]

Why should people be disallowed from owning and using guns responsibly?

You cant have dangerous dogs or fireworks, you cant even have the odd bomb lying around the house, so you cant have guns either, get over it.

Who cares what police think? They're job is to enforce law not make law or critically analyse it. I'm sure if paramedics had their way motorbikes would be outlawed.

The police know plenty that you don't.

So in other words you are imagining the US and not any number of other nations that have responsible gun ownership and low rates of gun and violent crime?

This is Australia we have a generation of angry drunks on our hands, they wont be allowed to have guns. Go buy a Play Station.

 

[rumpole]

If you think having guns will keep the peace you're crazy, why, if I had one I would have shot a dozen people by now myself

There are more than that in the Labor Cabinet Burnsy, you would need 2 at least