QANTAS Grounds all Flights

[noco]

What a lot of hypocrites these Labor MP's are, they bag Alan Joyce and Qantas one day, but are quite happy to accept all the hand outs from Qantas the next day.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ted-qantas-gifts/story-e6freooo-1226189439728

 

[Ferret]

What a lot of hypocrites these Labor MP's are, they bag Alan Joyce and Qantas one day, but are quite happy to accept all the hand outs from Qantas the next day.

Actually, I'm more disappointed at Qantas for this (if its true). I don't think its right to be handing out largess to politicians on either side.

 

[sptrawler]

What a lot of hypocrites these Labor MP's are, they bag Alan Joyce and Qantas one day, but are quite happy to accept all the hand outs from Qantas the next day.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ted-qantas-gifts/story-e6freooo-1226189439728

Now we can understand why Craig Thomson didn't understand what he did wrong.
Lets be honest its the rest of us that is out of step, jeez we have principles and decency how stupid are we?

 

[nulla nulla]

......They wanted to pillory Joyce, yet Bolt reports this morning that Joyce is a life long lefty and a gay. Scarcely the cigar chomping industrialist of union imaginings.

If Joyce wants to be a lefty lesbian good on her, no sexual discrimination here.

 

[Eager]

I must say that I really don't understand the management thought process which seeks to punish workers whilst spending more money to do so. If it actually saved money maybe I could see the point, but this business of paying extra, putting in a middle man and shafting the workers doesn't really stack up any way I look at it unless the objective is non-financial in nature.

Yeah. It's funny that you should mention garbage collection as an example. A nearby local council had, until recently, employed a contractor to manage its waste facility, employing 6 men. A dispute between the employees and the contractor ensued when it came to light that the workers had been underpaid over a long period of time (little wonder they won the contract in the first place), and, yes, shock horror, they went on strike. So the contractor sacked the workers, but obviously could no longer fulfil its contract - so the council sacked the contractor!

The council is now once again managing the waste facility in-house, employing the sacked workers who are now getting paid properly.

 

[sptrawler]

From what I have heard, whiskers, the ruling gives a negotiation period. Then if no resolution is found a binding order will be made by FWA. I can't see how the union will not be creamed, unless the Government is prepared to fund the union demands.
I would guess with the FWA ruling to terminate all industrial action, it will give Joyce the breathing space required to fast track the changes adopted at the A.G.M.
The unions have probably just accelerated the speed with which Joyce will introduce the changes.
He has shown the Government he isn't going to be intimidated, therefore Gillard will have to put herself out on a limb to stop him from carrying out the proposals.
I for one think she will stop talking on the issue, there is no way she can stop Qantas from implimenting a business stratergy without raising the sovereign risk issue.

It looks as though the union is going to blink first, they don't want FWA to arbitrate. Also you can bet your last dollar that Gillard will be pressuring the union to cave in.
The last thing she wants is her FWA legislation tested in the High Court, if it is anything like her other attempts at constructing law, it will have more holes than Swiss cheese.
She has obviously worked out from experience there is a difference between making "Laws" and them actually being "Lawfull"
In my opinion Joyce will blow holes out of the union and FWA if it makes a ruling in favour of job security. Now that would mortaly wound Gillard and the government's credibility.
Can't wait to see the outcome off this it has the makings of another Labor government stuff up, possibly their biggest. IMO

 

[prawn_86]

Flew Qantas yesterday iand it was rubbish. Flight was delayed an hour, so we ended up getting in at 8pm, and yet they still only served a snack instead of a meal as the original flight time didnt fall in the dinner bracket. Also in an old plane with no tv's in the seats etc

Seems to me they just don't care at all about their customers thoughts and are relying on their national carrier status and lack of competition.

 

[Smurf1976]

Seems to me they just don't care at all about their customers thoughts and are relying on their national carrier status and lack of competition.

It's like a lot of "iconic" things. Was good at some point and it still sounds credible, but if you take a cold hard look at the facts then it's not really that great. That applies not just to Qantas, but to rather a lot of Australian "iconic" products and services - there are exceptions but sadly many have become little more than junk relative to competitors who have moved with the times whilst the "icons" stood still. Qantas is just another one.

 

[DB008]

prawn_86, can l ask which route you took?

Was the plane one of those ageing Boeing 767's? They are in fact terrible. l guess some of the blame should really be directed to Boeing (not QF) because of the much delayed 787 Dreamliner, which will eventually replace the 767's.

Also in an old plane with no tv's in the seats etc

Think that's bad? Try flying Lufthansa on a 747 from Asia to Europe with no in seat entertainment (AVOD).

Boeing 787 Dreamliner delayed again...

Just Google - "Dreamliner delayed" and you'll get a good idea.

 

[prawn_86]

prawn_86, can l ask which route you took?

ADL -> SYD (not sure what plane but it was pretty massive for a domestic route)

I guess the plane manufacturers also have a duopoly, but it does seem to be a bit short-sighted to be only trusting one manufacturer imo

 

[Boggo]

Think that's bad? Try flying Lufthansa on a 747 from Asia to Europe with no in seat entertainment (AVOD).

Think that's bad, try flying Zurich to Singapore with Swiss, Airbus A340 with no individual overhead air vents in cattle class

Actually I think it was Zurich to Bangkok.

 

[cutz]

ADL -> SYD (not sure what plane but it was pretty massive for a domestic route)

I guess the plane manufacturers also have a duopoly, but it does seem to be a bit short-sighted to be only trusting one manufacturer imo

The airline operates aircraft from both manufacturers,

FWIW, i've flown Qantas many times both domestically and internationally, delays have been extremely rare, the ones I do recall were caused by passengers late at the gate.

 

[Julia]

It's like a lot of "iconic" things. Was good at some point and it still sounds credible, but if you take a cold hard look at the facts then it's not really that great. That applies not just to Qantas, but to rather a lot of Australian "iconic" products and services - there are exceptions but sadly many have become little more than junk relative to competitors who have moved with the times whilst the "icons" stood still. Qantas is just another one.

I haven't been on Qantas for some time but a friend flew to Canada and the USA and back recently with them and found it terrific - hugely superior to any of the internal flights they had over there.

 

[McLovin]

I haven't been on Qantas for some time but a friend flew to Canada and the USA and back recently with them and found it terrific - hugely superior to any of the internal flights they had over there.

Domestic flights in the US are disgraceful. Dirty cabins, shabby tired looking staff and food that I actually can't eat (and I've eaten plenty of weird and wonderful things) even in business/first. If you use US airlines as a basis for comparison then almost any airline will be terrific. The only exception to that rule are a few of the transcon flights NYC/BOS/MIA-SFO/LAX etc. They actually offer a far superior hard product on some of those routes, comparable to international business/first.

Oh and you're expected to tip in the club lounge when you get a drink!

 

[DB008]

Domestic flights in the US are disgraceful. Dirty cabins, shabby tired looking staff and food that I actually can't eat (and I've eaten plenty of weird and wonderful things) even in business/first. If you use US airlines as a basis for comparison then almost any airline will be terrific. The only exception to that rule are a few of the transcon flights NYC/BOS/MIA-SFO/LAX etc. They actually offer a far superior hard product on some of those routes, comparable to international business/first.

Oh and you're expected to tip in the club lounge when you get a drink!

Yes McLovin, l think that people should really have a look at what is offered in relation to QF Domestic. We have it pretty good over here. Almost all US legacy carriers are 3 star, and the only 4 star Airline in USA is JetBlue (a LCC), work that out

I recently flew Intra Europe (2 hours) in Y and you know what they served, tea/coffee + biscuit. "Business Class" intra Europe is more like VA/DJ's 'old' PE (LOL!).

It will be interesting to see what happens in regards to the FWA decision.

Boggo - I also similar experience on a BA 747 a few years ago.

 

[DB008]

ADL -> SYD (not sure what plane but it was pretty massive for a domestic route)

I guess the plane manufacturers also have a duopoly, but it does seem to be a bit short-sighted to be only trusting one manufacturer imo

QF (and almost every other Airline), usually have planes from both Airbus and Boeing. I think Southwest the exception with only 737's in their fleet.

Guess it's like only being able to choose from Ford or Holden and delays happen (from the manufacture), what can you do, as the customer?

 

[McLovin]

Yes McLovin, l think that people should really have a look at what is offered in relation to QF Domestic. We have it pretty good over here. Almost all US legacy carriers are 3 star, and the only 4 star Airline in USA is JetBlue (a LCC), work that out

I recently flew Intra Europe (2 hours) in Y and you know what they served, tea/coffee + biscuit. "Business Class" intra Europe is more like VA/DJ's 'old' PE (LOL!).

It will be interesting to see what happens in regards to the FWA decision.

Boggo - I also similar experience on a BA 747 a few years ago.

I have a J RTW (DONE4 if you're familiar with the abbreviations ) trip coming up with plenty of domestic US legs and intra-Europe flights. intra-Europe business is really just turning 3 Y seats into 2 J seats, and a hot breakfast. You are correct, we have it very good here for domestic.

I haven't flown Jetblue, but they do seem to have a pretty good reputation amongst US carriers. Continental was pretty good for a while too, not sure what they're like post merger.

 

[DB008]

McLovin - check your PM inbox.

PS, yes l am familiar with all those expressions.


Back on topic.
Talks have collapsed between Unions an QF

 

[Smurf1976]

I haven't been on Qantas for some time but a friend flew to Canada and the USA and back recently with them and found it terrific - hugely superior to any of the internal flights they had over there.

I was referring to domestic only in my post. Qantas are something of an Australian icon but it's the old planes and association with Jetstar that put me off and devalues the product in my opinion.

Qantas isn't a bad airline per se, actually it's quite good compared to many overseas, but it just so happens that the main domestic rival (Virgin) has newer planes, cheaper or the same fares, and fewer hassles. Qantas needs to match, or preferably beat, the competition otherwise in due course the masses will realise that the Qantas offering isn't as good in relative terms as it used to be.

The real thing I just don't grasp is why they put all the new planes into Jetstar where low price is the only thing customers care about whilst keeping the old bangers in Qantas which is supposedly a premium product. Surely it would have made more sense to put new planes into Qantas and give the cast offs to Jetstar? Maybe I've missed something here?

 

[Eager]

From the article that DB008 provided a link to:

Qantas 'did not terminate talks'

Qantas’s chief executive, Alan Joyce, said his preferred option had been to resolve the dispute with the pilots’ union and the TWU through negotiations but it was ‘‘now time to let Fair Work Australia bring the matter to a close’’.

Mr Joyce said Qantas did not terminate the negotiations but both sides had concluded that an agreement could not be reached.

Qantas had made a ‘‘generous offer’’ to the TWU, which included reasonable increases in pay and conditions, and protecting the jobs of existing employees, he said.

He also said that the federal government had indicated it would vigorously defend the decision by Fair Work to terminate the industrial action three weeks ago, in the event that the pilots’ union and the TWU purused legal action.

‘‘We are right behind the government on this,’’ he said.


So, according to Joyce, Qantas and the gov't are in alignment.

Where does that leave the opinions of the majority of ASF members then?