Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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You are right Duped, my calculation was wrong.

Depends what amount you take the 20% off.
Say it comes off the current value ($253,321,000), then the calculation will be:-

$126,660,500 - $50,664,200 / 830,532,768 = 9 cents

Which seems to compare to the NSX value for most of this year.

Any news about the Class Action?
 
JohnH said:
.................... and of course, our illustrious bleeder will still have no knowledge why there is so much interest in our fund. How naive does she think we are?? .. JohnH
Click to expand...

Obviously just as naive as she thinks the NSX is.... The NSX believes her, but we know better!
 
IMLO all this NSX trading lately defies open market logic and common sense. Many of those big sales at highly elevated prices like 20c are 'flash trades'. I.e. neither the seller or the buyer puts in an offer or a bid for any perceptible period of time. There's no bid/offer activity for ages and then, BANG, one of these monster trades go through.

Is this what Wallace's Yuan Essentails would do if it wanted to influence the price while only buy from a specific seller. I wonder who it is?

Who's running the shadow market? If it's a broker firm then I wouldn't want to go anywhere near them. Because if they're running a shadow market aren't they the sort of firm that's more likely to trade against their clients?

I mean why bother going through the cost of transfering the units via the NSX? To influence the price? I mean PIF units can be transferred off market can't they? Just fill in an off market transfer form. No need to advertise what you pay. No need to pay broker fees, Assuming any such off market transactions aren't recorded on the NSX then these flash transactions defy common sense.

Day before yesterday we had 1million+ units trade at 20c. And now that seller of 9440 units can't even get 9c. That seller has been gradually dropping their offer price for over a day now. Shouldn't that have triggered another 'please explain' from the NSX? The price is bouncing all over the place. Over in the proper market, the ASX, But over here on the NSX the PIF price can bounce up and down by 100% and the NSX does .... nothing.

Why does WC expose our units to this illogical market mechanism? With an ex Director right there in the thick of it. Isn't WC simply exposing us Mum & Dad investors to the tricks of the sophisticated investors?
 
My second last para should read:


Day before yesterday we had 1million+ units trade at 20c. And now that seller of 9440 units can't even get 9c. That seller has been gradually dropping their offer price for over a day now. Shouldn't that have triggered another 'please explain' from the NSX? The price is bouncing all over the place. Over in the proper market, the ASX, BOW's price only jumped 60% on new of a takeover offer and it got reported on the evening news. But over here on the NSX the PIF price can bounce up and down by 100% and the NSX does .... nothing.
 
Hearing on the radio news how two countries were avoiding formal, public negotiations and choosing instead to "back-channel", I was reminded that back-channeling wasn't restricted to the field of diplomacy...
 
Some more on the Lottery of Justice in Australia:

Rough justice proof of two-speed system
September 3, 2011 Rough justice proof of two-speed system


It's an apocryphal tale, one where the anti-hero has assumed various well-known guises over the years.

A heavy-set, tattooed convict with broken teeth and flattened nose sits forlornly on a cell-room bunk, no neck and with shoulders the size of hams protruding from a blue singlet, menace exuding from every pore.

Crowded into the spartan room is a group of youngsters, first-time juvenile offenders who have been marshalled together in an effort to strike enough fear into their hearts and return them to the straight and narrow for good.
Advertisement: Story continues below

''Is this how you wanna end up?'' our hero begins. ''Think you're tough, that you can rob banks, use a gun and terrorise people? Well, if you do, this is your future, locked up for the best years of your life.

''You want my advice? Give up the extortion, the violence, get rid of the guns. If you really want to fleece people, get yourselves a degree and go into banking, or broking, any kind of business. You'll make a hell of a lot more and there's hardly any chance you'll get busted.''

A cute joke, perhaps, but one that bears a remarkable resemblance to reality, particularly after the extraordinary events in the Federal Court this week when Justice Middleton sentenced Centro Properties six guilty non-executive directors to … absolutely nothing. No fines, no banning orders, nothing.

A small fine was doled out to the chief executive, Andrew Scott, along with read something like a character reference.

In late June the same judge found the entire board of Centro Properties guilty of breaching the Corporations Act and not fulfilling their duties as directors after major errors in the company's accounts mortally wounded the company, torching billions of dollars in investors' funds.

It was a strongly worded and well-argued decision that rocked the business world.

In his 186-page judgment, Justice Middleton systematically demolished all the arguments put forward as a defence to the lax behaviour of the errant directors, who clearly failed to read the company's accounts before signing them.

Almost $3 billion of short-term debt had been categorised as long term, an accounting error that disguised serious liquidity problems faced by Centro, particularly as the financial crisis gripped global markets, when lenders were demanding the return of their money rather than simply rolling loans over.

If the directors didn't know or didn't understand the accounts misrepresented its financial position, then it was their duty to know, the judge said.

In essence, his judgment made it clear that the buck stopped with the directors. Perhaps it was supposed to read: ''All the bucks stop with the directors.''

For his sentencing this week was far more conciliatory, and a departure from his June judgment. It now seems that in the unlikely event one will be found guilty, if indeed the corporate regulator even bothers to take action, you can walk out of court practically unscathed.

Much has been written lately about the emergence of a two-speed economy. In law, there has been a two-speed system for generations.

There's crime. And then there's ''white collar crime'', a more genteel form of criminal activity where the amounts of money are infinitely larger and the penalties commensurably smaller.

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission, jubilant at a rare win - having secured guilty verdicts against all the directors - sensibly called for the judge to impose hefty financial penalties along with banning orders, preventing each of the directors from holding public office for between three and 10 years.

Not surprisingly, barristers for the guilty directors argued long and hard that their clients should not be punished for their negligence, that they had suffered enough merely by being dragged through the courts.

It was a ''one-off'' failure, a ''substantial shock'' and a ''terrible experience'' for the six non-executive directors, claims that appeared ludicrous on any reading of the verdict.

That argument, however, appears to have struck a chord with the judge. While he went to great lengths to point out in his guilty verdict that he didn't believe the directors dishonest, his language suggested there might be harsh penalties to deter others.

That was not to be. Only Andrew Scott, the bombastic Zambian-born Centro chief executive, copped a fine, a mere $30,000 which will come, not from his pocket, but from the insurance policy Centro took to indemnify him. He's now become a living embodiment of the term Scott Free.

Amazingly, even Scott was spared a banning order. Instead, the judge lauded Scott's credentials.

''Mr Scott has abilities and skills as with the other directors, that the public should not be deprived of in the future,'' he said. One would have thought that after Centro, the public would best be protected from the said ''abilities and skills''.

And the non-executive directors? Banning them for even a short period would cause them ''reputational damage … that cannot be under-estimated'', the judge said. Er, isn't that the idea?

There was a collective sigh of relief in boardrooms across the land when the sentencing was made public. A sensible decision, was the consensus.

It should, however, be noted that the tolerance we Australians extend to corporate crime is unique in the western world.

In America, that bastion of free-market capitalism, regulators and courts adopt a ferocious attitude to high-end crime. Offenders regularly are arrested in their offices, hand-cuffed and paraded before staff (and usually television cameras) for the ritual ''perp walk''. In court, they often find themselves on the receiving end of jail sentences.

It is also worth pointing out that, in an amazing coincidence, other companies made the very same accounting error as Centro. Allco Finance, the brainchild of David Coe and the company that attempted to wrest control of Qantas in 2006, made a similar mistake.

It shifted $1.9 billion of short-term debt into the long-term column of its 2007 accounts, which again gave investors the false impression that it could withstand the financial head winds buffeting the debt-heavy group.

Coe and some of his cohorts will be examined this week in public once again. Not by the corporate regulator. Instead, it has been left to the collapsed group's liquidator to probe the reasons for the company's ignominious fall from grace.

Like Babcock & Brown, which torched close to $10 billion of investor funds, there has been no public sign of any action by the corporate regulator since its collapse three years ago.

Those who sent it broke are back in business and the only action, again, has been taken by the liquidator - a damages case the collapsed company's insurers will be forced to cover.

That's justice for you.

Ian Verrender
Click to expand...

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/roug...peed-system-20110902-1jpsb.html#ixzz1WpxDody1
 
Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive
the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
 
selciper said:
What the WC team are probably about to do.

http://www.effectivemeetings.com/presenting/preparation/ps.asp.
Click to expand...

Instructive Selciper.
And perhaps digesting latest escapes by fellow clubbers!?!@??

Off the hook, with barely a slap
September 3, 2011

Michael West

Nighty-night non-executive directors of Australia! Sweet dreams, all you who are so fraught and put upon! The arms of Morpheus beckon once again. Sleep, nature's nurse. O gentle sleep.

Though so rudely wakened by the ghoulish spectre of accountability, directors of Australia need vex and gnash their teeth no more.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen. It is official, made precedent by the courts this very week.

The penalty for blowing up $5 billion and being found guilty of breaking the law in Australia is … drum roll … embarrassment.

The sentencing of Centro directors by the Federal Court's Justice John Middleton will be talked about for some time for its spectacular leniency.

The architect off the whole house of cards which culminated in the Centro collapse, its chief executive Andrew Scott, suffers a $30,000 fine.

That's it, a penalty equivalent to little more than 1 per cent of his cash pay for 2007, or 2 ½ days' work.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/off-the-hook-with-barely-a-slap-20110902-1jpwr.html#ixzz1WyF4XGKz
Click to expand...

Justice Middleton; Justice Dowsett; etc, etc,
 
selciper said:
Simgrund - the name of the newest art form nowadays is escapology. Here's a guide to handling a Q and A session for CEOs etc. An audience member should always watch the roving microphone and to whom it is offered..

http://www.effectivemeetings.com/presenting/preparation/qa.asp
Click to expand...

HA - HA; looks like you've garnered the entire shipping container of this resource and will be feeding us mercilessly these juicy tid-bits mirth by mirth till these briefing meetings are over.
Looking forward to mine this coming 8th as will combine the outing with a little R&R in Nerang.
Cheers selciper,
 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...um-in-payout-bid/story-e6frg9jf-1226129264123

''............ASIC, meanwhile, has been taking obvious interest in the adventures of the Premium Income Fund since 2008, when it staged a legal challenge to Wellington's bid to be installed as responsible entity on the basis that unitholders were not adequately informed about the fund in August 2008, when the first date for the unitholder vote was set. The meeting, at which Wellington was voted in, did end up occurring in late September 2008....''
 
Just as John Cleese famously blamed everything that went wrong on "the war", expect JH to blame everything on "the GFC". It's unlikely that today's timely spread in the Australian brought smiles to the WC board members' faces.
 
selciper said:
Just as John Cleese famously blamed everything that went wrong on "the war", expect JH to blame everything on "the GFC". It's unlikely that today's timely spread in the Australian brought smiles to the WC board members' faces.
Click to expand...

Steven Keen's warnings unfortunately appear to be playing out. Prperty prices are dropping around the country according to the press. Yes Keen took the walk to Kosciusko. But was he forced to concede by our Federal institutions stepping into prop up the market. Who dare disagree we had a massive stimulus to shield the Australian economy.

So why didn't WC take the opportunity to exit the market back then? The current "sideways" moving property market is no surprise to many. What does PIF pay WC for? Has WC's decisions resulted in PIF failing to sell when the selling was good?
 
selciper said:
Somehow, it's not exactly WC's day. May there be more like this one to come.
Click to expand...

Towbar I await to hear Jenny Hutsons answer to the NSX latest "Please explain !!
I will be making time to go to the Gold Coast Briefing,are there any other PIFAG
Members from North NSW & Sothern Queensland attending"?:):)
 
Towbar said:
Towbar I await to hear Jenny Hutsons answer to the NSX latest "Please explain !!
I will be making time to go to the Gold Coast Briefing,are there any other PIFAG
Members from North NSW & Sothern Queensland attending"?:):)
Click to expand...

Yes we will be attending the meeting on the Gold Coast!!!!!
 

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