Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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simgrund said:
We seem to have a really dedicated reporter who is consistent in driving ours and many like us plights to public attention.

"It's another glaring example of how the Australian Securities and Investments Commission cannot be relied upon to protect investors, despite complaints."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/once...me-asic-must-take-account-20100912-1573c.html

Thank you Adele,
Regards,
Click to expand...
I googled the name mentioned in Adele Ferguson's article. Someone doesn't seem to like Denise Brailey: http://www.consumer-warning.com/denise_brailey.htm Attack the attacker. No one putting their name to that website though. Maybe Denise is on to something to attract this sort of counter spin. Who to trust? What a mess. And our representatives in Canberra have allowed itself to be dragged into this all by allowing the finance sector to put the Commonwealth brand all over it. Gold anyone? ;)

ASIC knocked back Brailey's application for a job. I wonder if PIF was in her 'dirty dozen' list.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...istleblowers-bid/story-e6frg916-1111117482835
 
The funny thing about our 'friends' at the ABC and ASIC is they're public servants and hence very likely to have their superannuation in ComSuper's PSS/CSS or equivalent. These are substantially DEFINED BENEFIT superannuation schemes.

I.e. the superannuation interests of the public servants aren't exactly aligned with the interests of self funded retirees.

Maybe it's time to remove that sticky piece of moral hazard and toss Canberra's servants into the very system which they themselves design and police.

I wonder if Transparency International take this into account when it gives, and similar organisations give, Australia such glowing reports.
 
Duped said:
I googled the name mentioned in Adele Ferguson's article. Someone doesn't seem to like Denise Brailey: http://www.consumer-warning.com/denise_brailey.htm Attack the attacker. No one putting their name to that website though. Maybe Denise is on to something to attract this sort of counter spin. Who to trust? What a mess. And our representatives in Canberra have allowed itself to be dragged into this all by allowing the finance sector to put the Commonwealth brand all over it. Gold anyone? ;)

ASIC knocked back Brailey's application for a job. I wonder if PIF was in her 'dirty dozen' list.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...istleblowers-bid/story-e6frg916-1111117482835
Click to expand...

Duped; the knockback by ASIC is least surprising as they would need to provide personal security for the true public fighters.
But there is definitely a hugely increased scrutiny of ASIC that is bound to bear good results in the near future.
Regards,
 
"I googled the name mentioned in Adele Ferguson's article. Someone doesn't seem to like Denise Brailey: http://www.consumer-warning.com/denise_brailey.htm Attack the attacker. No one putting their name to that website though. Maybe Denise is on to something to attract this sort of counter spin. Who to trust? What a mess. And our representatives in Canberra have allowed itself to be dragged into this all by allowing the finance sector to put the Commonwealth brand all over it. Gold anyone?

ASIC knocked back Brailey's application for a job. I wonder if PIF was in her 'dirty dozen' list."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1111117482835

Thanks Simgrund & Duped for you contributions to ASF

Yours truly and another AG organiser met with Denise Brailey quite some time ago. It was an eye opening experience! She knows a lot about many people and is well connected. Intelligent, articulate and capable, she filled us in on some information relevant to the PIF, but mostly how the over-all financial system works. Her information has helped the AG for the better. Our meeting with her and an associate was in-depth.

The AG thanks Denise for her kind assistance - she is a genuine decent Australian
 
Unfortunately to get the full article you must be a paid subscriber to the AFR; if I have a chance to get in to the library, I'll try to get a copy. Have there been any other articles on this?

http://afr.com/p/business/property/octaviar_sunkids_centres_sold_fFsZ4coDssPRTMUd6fflVL

20 Octaviar Sunkids centres sold
PUBLISHED : 13 SEP 2010 12:09:53 | UPDATED: 13 SEP 2010 04:00:25

Liquidators Bentley Corporate Recovery has completed the sale of 20 Sunkids Children Centres in Queensland and Victoria for more than $32 million, signalling that the last asset left in the Octaviar Group is finally being whittled down.

Cookie1
 
Article on Sunkids sale http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/br...ator-sells-sunkids-assets-20100913-1592v.html

Octaviar liquidator sells Sunkids assets
September 13, 2010 - 6:19PM
AAP

The liquidator of the failed Octaviar Ltd says it has sold 20 childcare centres in Queensland and Victoria for $32 million.

The 14 Sunkids Children Centres in south-east Queensland were sold to a private consortium based in the state and the six centres in Melbourne were bought by a Canberra-based private investor, liquidator Bentleys Corporate Recovery said on Monday.

"Both purchasers are retaining the Sunkids brand and staff," Bentleys said in a statement on Monday, adding that the centres had continued to operate profitably since it was appointed liquidator in September 2009.

Other assets in the portfolio being sold included 24 freehold leased childcare centres and 12 development sites.

A Bentleys spokesman said the Sunkids sale, along with the remainder of the portfolio, "would result in a significant return to creditors".

Prior to Monday's announcement, Bentley's had recovered about $145 million.

Octaviar is the Gold Coast-based property group previously known as MFS that collapsed in 2008, owing about $2 billion to creditors.

It is facing a liquidators examination in the NSW Supreme Court, with liquidator Kate Barnet from Bentleys trying to determine when the company became insolvent.

The examination continues on Tuesday, when Mark Korda from corporate recovery and restructuring firm KordaMentha is due to appear.
 
Article from Business Day

Investors tried to redeem funds
Kate Lahey
September 14, 2010

THOUSANDS of investors in the Premium Income Fund have been unable to redeem their cash since MFS, the failed group that once managed it, suspended redemptions in January 2008.

But the clients of the advisory firm Avenue Capital, where an MFS director worked, tried to get out of it days before the fund was frozen, the NSW Supreme Court heard yesterday.

Full story: http://www.businessday.com.au/business/investors-tried-to-redeem-funds-20100913-159bp.html
 
Thanks breaker1. Much appreciated.

Got my PIF tax statement yesterday.

What's the AG's take on WC? It makes me very nervous to have WC in charge of our fund. After all, PIF is not like a limited liability company. We're not shareholders. We're unitholders. And each and every one of us is personally liable for the actions of WC. This was another fact hidden from me by my AFS licensed financial advisor (if he had a clue) and WC haven't been particularly forthcoming in revealing these details about PIF.
 
Cookie1 said:
Article from Business Day

Investors tried to redeem funds
Kate Lahey
September 14, 2010

THOUSANDS of investors in the Premium Income Fund have been unable to redeem their cash since MFS, the failed group that once managed it, suspended redemptions in January 2008.

But the clients of the advisory firm Avenue Capital, where an MFS director worked, tried to get out of it days before the fund was frozen, the NSW Supreme Court heard yesterday.

Full story: http://www.businessday.com.au/business/investors-tried-to-redeem-funds-20100913-159bp.html
Click to expand...

What Lahey's article didn't mention is that Avenue Capital clients had the priviledged position that their funds were at call. Correct me if I'm wrong. Whereas the rest of us were locked in for 6, 9, 12 and 24 months.

"Mr Manka told the court he had nothing to do with Avenue's decision to advise clients to redeem their funds then" Lahey's words but does he mean 'nothing to do with the formal process of making the decision'? What about other lines of communication between MFSIM and Avenue that didn't involve Manka?

""I was overseas at the time ..."" So what. That's been totally irrelevant for the last 100 years. Every heard of a telephone, the internet, email, sms, Skype, or video conferencing. A red herring comment.

"" ... I think it was a decision made by the Avenue Capital board, as a result of the collapse of the MFS share price,'' Mr Manka said." The phrase 'I think' says it all really. Oh and 'as a result' is not an exclusive statement. So ...what other reasons were there?

"He said he did not participate in the board decision ..." Lahey's words but again, what is he really saying? That 'he did not particpate in any way' or 'he did not particpate in the formal process'?

"He ... did not own any units in the fund" Again, another decoy. (Lahey's words). A bid for credibility from the uninformed. If he did try and pull out his own units then, then Bell's line of questioning would have been very different. Anyway, he didn't say that his friends or family didn't own units in the fund. And he didn't say that he didn't have any rights over units owned by others.

Lahey's article didn't report any line of questioning by Bell to discover if Avenue took steps to exclude Manka from this particular decision making process.

Ironically the page for Lahey's article has a link to an SMH article "Management Line: How to spot a liar". How many boxes does Manka tick? http://www.smh.com.au/executive-sty...t-line/how-to-spot-a-liar/20100905-14vot.html
 
So you get some shonky valuer on the payroll to continually revalue the assets in order to make an entirely fictitious profit

Then you borrow billions from Banks to pay off debts and make dividends even though the company is fundamentally operating at a loss.

It is quite obvious that that this whole rotten setup was essentially a Ponzi scheme at its core.

Madoff got 150 years, these guys are still walking around unscathed.

It will be interesting to here how Korda Mentha and his team of gun forensic accountants could come to the conclusion that this company was solvent .

Tens of millions of dollars in fees “He who pays the piper “
Now that little matter would not have affected their professinal opinion, would it ?

Of course there also the small matter that Mr. Kordas ,son or brother just happened to work for OCV .
 
GC Bully's Nick Nichols puts his usual tone to the Sunkids Sale. Anyone reading his articles could be excused for thinking we're a bunch of whingers. A la 'stashed more cash in the kitty'. http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/09/14/255271_gold-coast-business.html

The Australian reports with a little bit more of a a healthy cynicism http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus.../story-e6frg8zx-1225921456637?from=public_rss

Jadel said:
... Madoff got 150 years, these guys are still walking around unscathed. ...
Click to expand...

I hear ya Jadel. But T.I.A. ... This is Australia.

Hmmm, land of the Rogue Hero eh?
 
Jadel wrote: "It will be interesting to here how Korda Mentha and his team of gun forensic accountants could come to the conclusion that this company was solvent." The time must be approaching when the spotlight falls on auditors. Well, let's hope so.
 
Failure to release yearly financials.

Trading in Premium Income Fund suspended!!

........What the hell is happening to Wellington?????:eek:
 
http://www.smh.com.au/business/korda-defends-mfs-solvency-call-20100914-15avt.html
''....The Supreme Court heard that the $50 million tax bill for the 2007 financial year was due on December 1, 2007. It was never paid.

Mr Korda could not recall when he thought the payment was due, but said: ''As with many tax debts you can enter into arrangements on when the tax is due and payable.''

MFS had not entered discussions with the Tax Office at that point but Mr Korda said there were ''reasonable prospects'' that it would agree to reschedule the debt.....'':confused:
 
k.smith said:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/korda-defends-mfs-solvency-call-20100914-15avt.html
''....The Supreme Court heard that the $50 million tax bill for the 2007 financial year was due on December 1, 2007. It was never paid.

Mr Korda could not recall when he thought the payment was due, but said: ''As with many tax debts you can enter into arrangements on when the tax is due and payable.''

MFS had not entered discussions with the Tax Office at that point but Mr Korda said there were ''reasonable prospects'' that it would agree to reschedule the debt.....'':confused:
Click to expand...

Mein Gott

Now I have heard it all !

Under that interpretation every single company in dire financial difficulties operating at a loss and fiddling the books ,could be deemed to be solvent

Of course it only takes the long suffering creditors of that company to put up their hands

and say, don’t worry we will forget about our losses and all the other misleading and dishonest behaviour.

If that is the case ,why would you even bother ro call in an insolvency specialist .

This whole saga becomes more farcical every day
 
There's a lot happening on the NSX announcements at the moment


............... 4 more entries including "CASH PAYMENT"!!!!

Unfortunately can't access them at the moment - probably crashed with so many PIF investors not believing their eyes!!!
 

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