National Broadband Network

[trainspotter]

And a very fine speech it is too from the co CEO of the company charged with building the NBN. What did you expect? "Don't build it as it is a costly dud" ?

I laughed when he said the fibre optic cable is cheap and very robust these days. We have a land development here that uses fibre optic cable already. It is so robust that the long talied rodents from the genus Rattus love the stuff so much they chewed through it in several places. Took about 2 months to repair.

A monopoly creates competition? More like "competition creates innovation - Against Monopoly"

Look don't get me wrong. I am all for the technology. Great that they can diagnose medical conditions from 3000kms away etc. BUT where are the trained nurses coming from? We can't staff our hospitals NOW. This is sheer lunacy on a magnitude of Ben Hur proportions.

671,278 people live in 95% of Australias land mass OK. SO let them have the old fashioned wireless/satellite/copper wire technology and put the damn stuff in the ground to service the other 22,176,354 that live on the other 5%. Now would that not be more cost effective and actually deliver to the majority? The savings could go into training more Doctors, Nurses, Policeman .... it's not that hard really.

Oooooh ....... sorry that is not the Labor way now is it? All for one and one for all kinda thingy. My mistake.

I have written previously that I do not want the Libs Frankenstein, hodge podge, "me too" alternative. It's a joke.

 

[derty]

My parry is this "What happens in 10 years time when the programmers figure out a way to make aplications run faster and using less megabytes?" Intel already have i7 chips that process information faster. New encrytpions and codeware is being invented to release memory hungry programmes.

While computers are advancing in line with Mores Law the operating systems and software are becoming more complex. Things seem to take just as long to load up and run as they did 20 years ago, it's just that they do much more and look a lot better. They are continually making faster hardware and more efficient code but everything seems to stand still.

The net is similar. I remember being amazed when I got my first 14.4kb/s dialup modem it was such a step up from the old vax terminal we used to have at work. But 14.4k quickly got slow as did 28.8k and 33.3k and 56k. It got to the point where just browsing the web using dialup was an excercise in frustration as everything was designed for broadband speeds. We have seen the same advancement in ADSL to ADSL2. Streaming a decent video feed on an ADSL1 connection is a stop-start exercise in buffering. In the next 5 - 10 years using ADSL tech will be like trying to use a 56k modem these days.

As optic fibres become common, applications and uses will be developed that will take full use of the bandwidth available. This will develop regardless of if we have the technology or not. Though if we do not have the technology we will effectively be locked out of it until we take the plunge.

My only fear with the NBN is that it will be poorly administered. And I guess chances are it will be, regardless of who runs it, as most large infrastructure projects always seem to be. That shouldn't be a reason not to start. If it will cost $6B to hobble an adhoc solution together that will barely enable us to stand still vs $37B to take us to the next level, show me the money.

 

[Calliope]

Malcolm Turnbull's views on the NBN debate

I posted Turnbull's views yesterday, Post #243. It supports my view that a lot of posters don't read other peoples posts.

 

[sails]

I posted Turnbull's views yesterday, Post #243. It supports my view that a lot of posters don't read other peoples posts.

You are right, I didn't see it - my apologies.

Sometimes I find it's possible to miss the occasional post in a thread of interest due to using the "new post" link. If a new post is posted a few seconds before logging off, it doesn't show up in the "new posts" next time.

Other than that, I'm not sure how I missed it!

 

[trainspotter]

While computers are advancing in line with Mores Law the operating systems and software are becoming more complex. Things seem to take just as long to load up and run as they did 20 years ago, it's just that they do much more and look a lot better. They are continually making faster hardware and more efficient code but everything seems to stand still.

I remember my 386 olivetti computer running windows 3.1 and MS-DOS 6.22 and it was the fastest and latest thing on the market place when I bought it. To fire it up would take at least (what felt like) 5 minutes while it counted RAM and went through the whole DOS procedure. Then it was 37 double clicks just to open a spreadsheet. Another 5 minutes later. Typing was OK with MS Works (oxymoron if there ever was one) then asking it to print whilst it spooled was another 5 minutes.

Yes the chips have kept pace with Mores Law but it will not be far away when they cannot proceed any further. Intel is already squawking that they are nearing capacity with the technology they have now. I am guessing programmers of code will be the next thing to try and speed the experience up.

That and the NBN on a workable budget and at some time in the future AFTER they clean up the mess we have now with our utilities.

 

[overhang]

It's not just the cost factor but also whether they can actually get it right.
Considering the utter chaos of something as simple as the pink batts scheme, why would anyone have any confidence in their management of something much more complicated?

Maybe because the Tasmanian test phase was completed under budget and on time and maybe because they have many experts in the IT field in charge of the program, not some former rock band singer.

 

[bellenuit]

Maybe because the Tasmanian test phase was completed under budget and on time and maybe because they have many experts in the IT field in charge of the program, not some former rock band singer.

Yes, but who set the budget and the schedule for the Tasmanian test phase? Were they ever likely to come back and say that they exceeded budget and schedule, just prior to the election?

 

[Julia]

Look don't get me wrong. I am all for the technology. Great that they can diagnose medical conditions from 3000kms away etc.

I have considerable doubts about this. A proper diagnosis should include a physical examination. How can a specialist looking at a screen feel the texture and size of an internal organ e.g.?

You are right, I didn't see it - my apologies.

Sometimes I find it's possible to miss the occasional post in a thread of interest due to using the "new post" link. If a new post is posted a few seconds before logging off, it doesn't show up in the "new posts" next time.

Other than that, I'm not sure how I missed it!

Sails, I've found using the "Quick Links" heading, then "Today's Posts", means you see all the posts during the previous 24 hours. I've also missed posts when using the "New Posts" link. (With thanks to Professor Frink for this advice.)

 

[moXJO]

How can a specialist looking at a screen feel the texture and size of an internal organ e.g.?

True, millions of internet nerds have been trying to do it for years to no avail

 

[boofhead]

NBN Co has been working with the hardware companies and also the deploment and wholesaling companies like Opticomm. Companies that have experience deploying fibre in new estates etc. in Australia already.

As for governments not running companies well - some experience suggests government run integrated electricity companies are more consumer friendly, reliable and responsive that privatised companies. Everything has a cost.

 

[overhang]

Yes, but who set the budget and the schedule for the Tasmanian test phase? Were they ever likely to come back and say that they exceeded budget and schedule, just prior to the election?

Yes good point and I would assume if it was over budget it would be swept under the carpet. I don't trust the government but I have no reason to question Mike Quigley CEO of NBN Co, he is even donating his 2 million dollar salary to charity so clearly he doesn't need this job. He is renowned in the IT sector and I don't believe he would jeopardize his reputation for political influence. The Tasmanian roll out occurred prior to the agreement with Telstra which possibly will decrease the costs even further, it was supposedly 10% under budget.

 

[Calliope]

I don't trust the government but I have no reason to question Mike Quigley CEO of NBN Co, he is even donating his 2 million dollar salary to charity so clearly he doesn't need this job. He is renowned in the IT sector and I don't believe he would jeopardize his reputation for political influence.

OH yeah? Who said so...Gillard or Conroy? Read the link for more on the unbiased Quigley

The chief executive of the NBN just happens to make an announcement that favours the government Delimiter.com.au reports yesterday:

NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley has delivered a stinging attack on the Coalition's broadband policy, publicly backing Labor's rival National Broadband Network project just days before the federal election due on Saturday.

Moi? Political? ABC News reports Quigley on August 12:

THE head of the NBN has rejected suggestions he timed a major announcement about faster download speeds to have maximum impact on the federal election.

"We made this decision to go to 1 gigabits . . . after some considerable study we decided, 'What do we do? We sit on it because there's an election on?' . . . I decided the right thing to do was to announce it."

ChannelNews.com.au reports on August 12:
IN what has to be a federal election stunt, NBN Co boss Mike Quigley suddenly announced yesterday that the new NBN network will be capable of operating at speeds of 1Gbps, a service which Telstra CEO David Thodey said was fast but will have little appeal with consumers due primarily to the cost of such speeds.

Thodey said: "We already have a 1Gbps service for business, however I see little demand for it in the home".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...gh-into-election/story-e6frg6zo-1225907032340

 

[derty]

From the US, though it puts need of Fibre To The Home in perspective.

And with 8 years to roll out the NBN it's is really something that needs to be implemented before it becomes a necessity.

 

[bellenuit]

Maybe because the Tasmanian test phase was completed under budget and on time and maybe because they have many experts in the IT field in charge of the program, not some former rock band singer.

Just another point on the Tasmanian rollout being on time and on budget.

According to an article in today's The Australian, the NBN has been rolled out to just 70 homes in Tasmania.

I believe the roll out rate to meet their targets over the next few years is about 4,000 installations a day.

That figure seems plausible. 4,000 by 250 working days is 1M homes per year. That means 8 years to reach 8M households. I don't know what the actual targets are, but I would assume they are in the 8 to 10 year ballpark for rollout to 90%+ of homes.

IMO, there is a vast difference between installing to 70 households in a test phase over how many weeks (?) when you have the skilled personnel available and rolling out 4,000 per day.

 

[Happy]

Few prices were bumped around on 2GB talk back radio today:
50 MBps $50
100MBps $80
200MBps $120 or was it $130

Biggest problem is that no house is built to accommodate fibre yet and to fit new one built tomorrow would cost $2,000 to $3,5000 depending on what future owner wants.

To retro-fit existing house might be anything from cost comparable to what fitting new dwelling would be to expensive nightmare.

One last bit which has to be priced in is connection between box in a street and the house.

As they mentioned it might be too expensive to fit, might be too expensive to run and might not be needed by some too.
After all not everybody alive today and in few years time sees the need for Internet.

 

[bellenuit]

Few prices were bumped around on 2GB talk back radio today:
50 MBps $50
100MBps $80
200MBps $120 or was it $130

Biggest problem is that no house is built to accommodate fibre yet and to fit new one built tomorrow would cost $2,000 to $3,5000 depending on what future owner wants.

To retro-fit existing house might be anything from cost comparable to what fitting new dwelling would be to expensive nightmare.

One last bit which has to be priced in is connection between box in a street and the house.

As they mentioned it might be too expensive to fit, might be too expensive to run and might not be needed by some too.
After all not everybody alive today and in few years time sees the need for Internet.

And if you also want access via wireless for internet on the move, do you also have to pay for a wireless plan on top of the NBN plan?

 

[Happy]

...
do you also have to pay for a wireless plan on top of the NBN plan?

Anybody's guess, might be bundled together, might be not.

 

[Calliope]

Gillard never opens her mouth about her NBN without throwing in the benefits for health and education. But for whom? Those who can afford to pay the price.

Now we're told a structurally separated, pro-competitive NBN will deliver the health and education services needed by all Australians.

This puts equity at risk, undermining a core ALP value. As a recent Australian Bureau of Statistics report shows, one million low-income households don't have any form of internet access; not even a $10 a month dial-up connection, let alone broadband. Thirty per cent of these households don't have a computer, yet their access to government services will demand high-speed broadband and a computer. If they can't pay for internet access now, how will they pay for a gold-plated NBN service?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...g-true-believers/story-e6frgd0x-1225907038763

 

[drsmith]

Few prices were bumped around on 2GB talk back radio today:
50 MBps $50
100MBps $80
200MBps $120 or was it $130

Biggest problem is that no house is built to accommodate fibre yet and to fit new one built tomorrow would cost $2,000 to $3,5000 depending on what future owner wants.

To retro-fit existing house might be anything from cost comparable to what fitting new dwelling would be to expensive nightmare.

One last bit which has to be priced in is connection between box in a street and the house.

As they mentioned it might be too expensive to fit, might be too expensive to run and might not be needed by some too.
After all not everybody alive today and in few years time sees the need for Internet.

From post #179

Iinet's NBN5 (down/up speed: 50/4 Mbps), (peak + offpeak quota: 50GB + 50GB) is $100pm. To use the line for voice calls, iiTalkpack is also required ($10pm). Total cost $110pm.

The equivilent naked ADSL2+ plan in terms of quota (Naked Home 3) is $70pm and includes iiTalk.

Their top speed NBN plans (down/up speed: 100/8 Mbps) start at $130pm.

 

[IFocus]

A bit left field here but would anyone here have supported building the Sydney opera House in 1957.

Building started in 1959 finished 1973

Original estimate $7mil final cost $102 mil

Was it worth it?