Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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lawry1dog said:
Please note, that the new Fund's Registry (Armstrong Registry Services),
does not allow you to check your Unit Balance online, as you could with
the previous Registry. This is not good enough!!

Also it is a conflict of interest that Wellington Capital is using this new Fund Registry, which has some affiliation with it. As the former name of our fund was called Armstrong Capital Limited.
Click to expand...
I have posted this on here previously, it appears Jenny Hutson/WC is the major shareholder of Armstrong Registry Services (of which there is no named key personel)::


http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021722325.PDF

Lawry1dog, I would not be at all surprised if Wellington Capital Ltd does not fade into the background and be completely reinvented as Armstrong Capital Ltd once again (or something similar). Wellington Capital Ltd does not appear as succesfull as some would like and is getting smellier by the day.
Seamisty
 
If reports that the WC general manager has recently departed from the outfit are correct, I wonder if the empty position has since been filled. If not, WC must be running pretty thin on the ground organisationally when it comes to tackling the mounting PIF problems.Will WC tell us if they have appointed a new GM? It's none of our business of course.
 
Kostag: are you an Equititrust investor? If so, I can't and won't suggest what you should do. But I can tell you what I have learned. Take what you will from it.

I assumed ASIC could protect me. I was wrong.

I assumed my Financial Advisor was duty bound to put my financial interests ahead of his. I was wrong.

I was concerned when I read about Westpoint and contacted my FA. He responded that PIF was different because it didn't use mezzanine financing. I believed him, that PIF was different, and assumed that it couldn't happen to me. I was wrong.

My instincts suggested the extra risk wasn't worth the few extra after-tax $ above my ING savings account. I raised this with my FA. He did not agree. I didn't follow my instincts and family's wisdom. I was wrong.

I believed the politicians when they said they cared and took their responsibilities seriously. I was wrong. (Instead they seem to imply we were greedy. Contrast this with them constantly telling us we must all take responsibility for our superannuation funds. Go figure.) Wayne Swan said it himself at the London School of Economics on 13/3/09. Full text of the Q&A is below.

According to Wayne Swan we [emphasis added]: " [FONT=&quot]made an investment in a market linked investment proposal which didn't have the security that an investment in a APRA regulated institution would have BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR HIGHER RETURNS and sadly the worst has happened. … BUT THERE IS NOTHING THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT CAN DO FOR THOSE PEOPLE who unfortunately lost their money in those market linked schemes ...[/FONT]" (I'd like to see Swan back away from that without doing a 7.30 Report Abbott.)

Lastly have a read of this http://www.vov.co.nz/it-was-blindingly-obvious-to-some (Vestar was (partly?) owned by MFS and OPI Pacific is an Octaviar creditor)

I was duped. I was hustled.



Extract from LSE lecture (reported on the ABC) with emphasis added:
Question asked from the floor re Octaviar is at 36m33s. She is a unit trust investor, so probably a PIF investor. "... That sounds great for the toxic assets of banks. I'm glad that you - I'm an Australian citizen and an Australian tax payer - I'm glad that you said we're all in this together because I'm I've lost all of my money for the rest of my life in the failed Queensland unit trust MFS, that's your State, that was from January 08. And it was a result of the failure of the oversight authority ASIC and you take government, you take responsibility and I'd like to know what you're going to do about that. A forward looking Senate inquiry looking at future regulation is no good for people like me. I'm asking on behalf of ten thousand people, what are you going to do about it?"

Wayne Swan: "Well I think the people who invested in those schemes are right to be disillusioned and angry with what has happened to their money. They made an investment in a market linked investment proposal which didn't have the security that an investment in a APRA regulated institution would have because they were looking for higher returns and sadly the worst has happened. Naturally I think there will be implications that need to be studied for what this means in terms of organisations such as ASIC and the government is very accutely aware of that and we have recently as you have indicated, announced an inquiry principally into the events surrounding Storm but I think it goes to core of your question: How could the regulatory system allow or tolerate these sorts of activities by a number of people in market linked investment schemes? And I don't pretend to have the answer to that, that's what the inquiries will show us. But there is nothing the Australian Government can do for those people who unfortunately lost their money in those market linked schemes other than to try and learn the lessons of that experience and fix the regulatory system."
 
http://www.smh.com.au/business/critical-time-for-asic-under-siege-20100621-ysc9.html

".....The Australian Securities and Investments Commission has requested an adjournment of the application by Westpoint founder Norm Carey, but if the court decides to order the release of the documents that could lead to some interesting questions over the regulator's handling of the Westpoint collapse in 2006. The hearing is set for July 7....."

I think a lot of investors will be interested ...
 
Duped

If it is of any consolation ,I can tell you that part of my investment in the PIF was some of my wife super following her retirement

The day I made out the cheque at the bank to send to MFS PIF, Mrs Jadel asked me if the investment was in safe hands.

I stated that Andrew Peacock was the CEO, and would never be involved in anything dishonest. Can you imagine what happens now when we have a domestic spat .???

Of course the colt from Kooyong has bolted from the paddock
faster than Pharlap and has done a Houdini disappearing act

I have no doubt that he will never be seen or heard from again in connection with this swindle.
 
seamisty said:
Octaviar subsidiary wind-up stalls
Liquidators forced to wait for court ruling

By Kate Kachor
Wed 23 Jun 2010
Liquidators have been forced to seek court assistance in the winding up of a former subsidiary of the Octaviar Group.

'the creditors' wind-up orders were stalled after liquidators received a complaint from David Anderson'

Full article:http://www.investordaily.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/id/style/9455.htm?rdeCOQ=SID-0A3D9633-F5EECFB3
Click to expand...

"... The Federal Court is yet to hand down its verdict. ..."

Is this it: NSD699/2010?

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/NSD699/2010/actions

If so then Bentleys were granted leave to discontinue the proceedings. Which doesn't really tell us who backed down. But there'll be no verdict.
 
"How to be negatively rich
Nick Nichols, business editor | June 23rd, 2010

POLITE conversation never touches on certain subjects and money is probably close to the top of the taboo list.

Never ask how much someone earns and never ask them about their financial situation.

So, when MFS co-founder Phil Adams took the stand in Sydney last week during the public examination of the 2008 collapse of the former funds management company he built with Michael King, it was little wonder there were some uncomfortable moments for him.

After taking the liberty, as journalists do, to ask Mr Adams before his afternoon appearance how he was coping financially, the answer was to be expected.

"That's a private matter," he said."

For full article
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/06/23/231111_nick-nichols-opinion.html

I'm surprised to see an article by Nick as he's been missing in action on most of the proceedings of the MFS liquidation and anything negative to do with the PIF and WC. Perhaps it's because Phil Adams lives sooooo far away...or, perhaps I'm just being cynical....

Why no article about David Anderson's refusal to reveal his financial position?

Cookie1
 
Hi All, Just want to touch base and respond to all those that have contacted me re no PIF info recently. Sorry I have been away on other business and am disgusted at the continuing lack of support from ASIC and other regulatory bodies, not to mention our own Responsible Entity, Wellington Capital LTD.
Wayne Swan who to this day has not bothered to apologise for his negative comments at the London G8 summit last year regarding the plight of PIF investors who quote was stated as saying "made an investment in a market linked investment proposal which didn't have the security that an investment in a APRA regulated institution would have BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR HIGHER RETURNS and sadly the worst has happened. … BUT THERE IS NOTHING THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT CAN DO FOR THOSE PEOPLE who unfortunately lost their money in those market linked schemes "

Well Wayne, quote you again "But there is nothing the Australian Government can do for those people who unfortunately lost their money in those market linked schemes other than to try and learn the lessons of that experience and fix the regulatory system"

Thats not good enough Wayne, it wasn't the investors who failed, it was the well paid idiots who were supposedly in a tax payer funded position to represent those who were considerd to be not so clever as yourself who were meant to monitor and be represented by people such as yourself. Did you ever consider it your duty to further investigate our fund? Apparently not, along with many others.

Here is an old email for Swan ;;; Wayne.Swan.MP@aph.gov.au


and Gillard:: Julia.Gillard.MP@aph.gov.au


Like with my opinion of Asic, I won't hold my breathe waiting for any of you to intervene and do anything worthy of respect or even a vote. The least I can say for K Rudd (even though I did not support him but gave recognition where it was deserved )I believe it was as a direct result of his referral that we are where we are at with Carneys and IMF and the Class Action. Too many promising to little and lacking the guts to follow through on any action at all. Draw your wages at our expense you parasites, you are mostly too stupid stroking your own egos to recognise where the real support lies, which, ultimately is in a vote.
Seamisty
 
IMLO the widespread incompetance of the legislative protections put in place and policed by mediocre (or conceited?) public officials is akin to the "free selection before survey" of crown land under land legislation introduced in the 1860s.

The Federal Govt and commissions like ASIC and ACCC and the overselling of their capabilities does more damage than good. All they seem to achieve is to legitimise misleading and deceptive conduct. A super naiive (conceited?) attempt at drawing a line in the sand between acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour. (Public officials who KNOW how inaccessible the legal system is. Always has been always will.) And in the process subverting some of our common law rights as well as our ability to engage in a free market.

Regulators conceding ground all over the place to interest groups (http://www.investordaily.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/id/style/9509.htm?rdeCOQ=SID-0A3D9632-4E2575C9) and an army of lawyers to effectively LOWER the general standard. (And damaging competition) Disarming us punters with poor legislation and their reckless confidence and then throwing us to their pet AFS licenced sharks or worse .... When things go wrong it's all our fault for being greedy. (I would never ever ever ever have come into contact with PIF if it wasn't for my ASIC promoted and branded (i.e. AFS licenced) financial advisor.)

The $1trillion plus of super (compulsorily taken from us at a minimum of 9%) is vulnerable to this ramshackle system. Private interest sharks will always out smart the itinerant legislators/regulators. Isn't that why we're supposed to let the market decide?

The land laws were supposed to transfer squatter land to competant selectors. It backfired severly. Poor implementation and policing just promoted corruption, bribery and blackmail which spread, according to my historian, to other aspects of life in the colony and endured into the 20th century. According to wikipedia (confirmed by one historian I'm reading), in NSW alone, "By 1890, 37,000,000 acres (150,000 km²) had been transferred by selection, but over half of it was owned by 677 people. Although a major purpose of the legislation was to encourage cropping, only 330,000 acres (1,300 km²) was being used for wheat-growing in 1890". EPIC FAIL.

Sound familiar doesn't it? That lesson has been forgotten. Legislation that was supposed to protect those of us who wish to self fund our retirement is doing the opposite. I.e. helping those already there (in the finance sector) increase their wealth and the legitimancy of their wealth. Encouraging and rewarding the sharks and hustlers financially.

Seems to me we're at the same point in history. Here we go again.

One trillion $ + of super funds and Swan and his predecessors put us in the tank and then sell the bait and tackle. All the time actually believing they're shifting responsibility to us. Wrong.

Read this: http://www.contractworld.com.au/campaigns/ica-smsf-worries-over-superannuation-disclosure.php. Or read the extract appended below.

CTRL+ALT+DEL.
CTRL+ALT+DEL.
CTRL+ALT+DEL.
How do I exit this system???????

Appendix:

"Industry funds were looked at more closely. This is because they receive privileged financial advantage through the industrial relations system where they dominate (84%) the 'default' arrangements under the modern award system. That is, if a worker does not nominate a super fund to which their money goes, the award requires the money to go to an industry fund in 84% of cases.

The report investigated the structure and controlling systems in the industry fund sector and found a complex web of intertwined corporate and trust structures. They discovered a 'round-robin' of control where one outsourced fund company exercises control over huge amounts of industry super funds. Some industry funds have purchased shares in these outsourced fund management companies, but many of these assets pay no dividends and their return potential is difficult to assess (because of poor disclosure).

This has previously not been fully mapped or understood. Further, the report identifies the twelve most powerful people in superannuation today, who between them have effective control of $188 billion of industry (workers') retirement money.

This is a massive concentration of financial power in the hands of a small number of people and businesses, making them some of the most powerful people and corporates in Australia. "
 
I agree Duped, but who regulates the regulators? Do ASIC know/think they are a law unto themselves? Is this why I consider that the treatment I personally have received in my dealings with ASIC since around May 2008 has been nothing short of negligent? Because they:: a. don't give a ****
b. lack the capabilities/experience needed
c. think they are superior beings simply biding their time until a better offer comes up

Some of the employees I have dealt with at ASIC concerning the PIF have given me incorrect advice, fobbed me off, don't return calls and have even been quite rude.

They are continually being shifted around and no one appears fully informed of our circumstances. At times I have received a written communication from ASIC (if I am very lucky and often six months later after having to call and make a complaint) and the contact person one week later is no longer available and I am redirected to someone else who has NFI what I am talking about!!!

I have also been told not to bother sending in any more complaints or information as ASIC are already dealing with it!!! Excuse me, thats your job and you could hardly blame someone for thinking very little has actually been achieved to date!!

On another note, the Bentley's Public examinations will be resuming on the 19th of July with David Anderson being the first questioned.

Seamisty
 
Thanks Seamisty. I'm happy to add negligent to the list: mediocre, incompetent, naiive and conceited. Can't believe I hadn't included self serving. Funny how the publicly minded, who campaign so openly against self serving interests can oft be so ... self serving.
 
k.smith said:
In the news today...

http://www.smh.com.au/business/photon-boss-saw-the-light-and-departed-20100628-zf66.html

"....Meanwhile, Hutson's Wellington Capital is locked in battle to fend off a takeover bid for the former MFS Premium Income Fund, which she now manages, from a shell of a former lingerie company that is being advised by the banned company director Jim Byrnes.....":2twocents:2twocents:2twocents
Click to expand...
'Locked in battle' what a joke!!! Our illustrious leader is off overseas somewhere, on one of her PR jaunts maybe???? Seamisty
 
seamisty said:
'Locked in battle' what a joke!!! Our illustrious leader is off overseas somewhere, on one of her PR jaunts maybe???? Seamisty
Click to expand...
I am very interested at the outcome of tomorrows Maximum Yield Fund meeting and if JH will be present!

The MYF meeting is scheduled for 10.00am of which Ms Jennifer Hutson/Wellington Capital is also the Responsible Entity for. There is only 9? I think original members who originally invested between them just under $2million dollars. The rest of the $85million allegedly bogus units inherited from MFS/OCV are held by JH who has previously used the voting power of these non existant units to prolong the life of the Fund as she is drawing management fees on behalf of Wellington Capital. She is proposing to vote in favour of amending the constitution to extend the end date of the MYF for a further 2 years due to current litigation of which I understand will have no financial impact on the fund if it is wound up.


The original unitholders have already had problems with distributions being withheld, one investor even being arrested and handcuffed as a result of JH's intervention when confronted with the non payment of distribution!! ( I have also heard that JH can swear better than me!!) Is it legal to continue using this voting power now that it is recognised that these units are non existant?? An interesting scenario, especially since ASIC has been well informed of the situation for at least 2 years.

All will be revealed!!

I see our Class Action has a hearing scheduled for 01-Jul-2010 9:30 Directions Justice Perram Court Room 21A

Cheers, Seamisty
 
I don't know about any one else but being the cynic I am I find the likes of this article insulting after having complained to ASIC on so many issues previously, including the 25% rate of interest negotiated by Wellington Capital on our behalf in relation to borrowing money with not even a response from ASIC. It was bad enough having to repay a loan to RBOS that was not to our benefit, thus sacrificing nearly everything of value in our portfolio.
Seamisty


http://www.smh.com.au/business/lend...-for-national-registration-20100629-zjb5.html
'ASIC is taking over regulation of all consumer lending, including credit cards, store cards and mortgages tomorrow, replacing a former state-based system.

''We regret these loans were made and had we received or been aware of the true position of the borrowers then each loan would not have been approved,'' he said.

He said the business had stopped dealing with the brokers and it had reviewed lending processes
 
Hopefully not just another look-at-what-I-can-do-Mum play by ASIC. ASIC also recently took over supervision of financial markets from the ASX. ASX may have been conflicted but perhaps that's the price we had to pay for a practical system.

Like with the PIF PDS - Does ASIC understand what its signing itself up for? I suppose if you just stick your fingers in your ears and say La La La La La, it doesn't seem all so bad. Then again, they can always just blame us punters for being greedy. Or just use the stock standard response - there are always exceptional circumstances.

God help us.

They can all link arms together at Canberraland Sky Fire and sing It's A Small World After All.
 
I sincerely hope that Print Mail Logistics of which Wellington Capital has an interest in was not paid by the PIF to print a hard copy of this document to be sent to every PIF unit holder. I have only read the 1st few pages of which appears to be extremely repetitive and probablly didn't need all the pictures and large print!!
http://www.nsxa.com.au/ftp/news/021722931.PDF

Seamisty
 

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