CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

To quote ....Rowdy15 .........yesterday

Of course this is my own opinion and I have a fresh outlook on CSS as I have only stumbled upon it in the last week or two.

Strange comment, given that you joined this web site on June 30th 2009.

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

1) Intellectual Property Right

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=WO2006078061&DISPLAY=DESC

2) Tuna larvae development

http://www.fishlarvae.com/e/BigBang/Kawamura.pdf


Interesting I must say any thoughts on this info.




I do not endorse or take responsibilty for this info
Do your own research

 

[rowdy15]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hey Sashimi,

Membership join up date, has no connection to investigating a stock.

So I'd say yours is the strange comment.

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Rowdy15: I also have science qualifications (degree with honours in biological science) and have worked in biology laboratories carrying out research. What you say is quite true, science experiments tend to take more attempts than is initially anticipated before they are successful. However, working in a research lab at a government-funded institution is hardly a model for a successful business. Look at the cash burn of CSS and think about what will happen if they don't close the life cycle in the next season (which seems an almost guarantee given their track record, and even you say that more failures are almost certain). They are going to run out of money before the next, so they are going to need money from somewhere before making another attempt (which is what you are expecting). That 26c or so book value is going to be substantially lower than 26c when the time comes for a capital raising, and considering what their assets are, trying to liquidate now probably wouldn't bring in anywhere at all near 26c, let alone when the cash runs out before next spawning season.

Given the level of confidence the investors have, and given that the banks have already run away, and that many/most of the current holders are probably doing so simply hoping for a good deal when they liquidate, further capital raising seems extremely unlikely. Liars are often believed, but they have already alienated and disillusioned enough investors, and the new ones won't have to look hard to be discouraged from participating in further capital raising, so it's very difficult to see it being successful.

Given that even if a magical solution was found for the mortality issue, the food conversion rates are very difficult to deal with, and how profitable the venture might be in the very unlikely event that the science side of things was successful is very uncertain. Feeding many kg of wild caught fish to the tuna for every kg of tuna produced, along with the costs of running a business is a very precarious situation to be in. How you can pluck figures like $2-$10 out of the air at this point is beyond me, especially given that any currently held shares are going to be severely diluted if CSS actually does continue as a going concern. Aren't we supposed to give some sort of reasoning if we make bold price predictions?

Finally, it seems extremely suspicious that someone would jump in with fervent support of a company on their very first post after being a member for several months.

 

[nizora]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

"In a change of tune, management has shied away from committing to any
timeframe and/or SBT fingerling production target by stating “It is not possible to predict the rate of progress that will be achieved with the commercialisation by the company of the closure of the SBT lifecycle.” This indicates that the company’s previously stated target of producing 100,000 fingerlings in FY11 and 10,000t p.a of SBT by FY15, is very unlikely - at least not in the stated timeframe and/or in the stated quantity."

Read the above, but the share price has been going north lately.

 

[rowdy15]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hey Sdajii,

You make some good arguments, but I'd say the 23 million of "cash or cash equivalents" on hand as of dec 30 2009, if spent on fish food...........is a lot of fish food.

I would be assuming the company is conducting their blue fin tuna experiments on a much smaller scale compared with when they go commercial. So please enlighten me with some "real" figures if you have some.

The announcement of dead fish is quite dissapointing, however if the cost of the failed experiment is say 0.5 milliion dollars, which is a lot of money for just a single "feeler" experiment, then there should be enough money for a further 45 experiments.

Please, I am just taking a calculated stab in the dark, so give me some real figures, if you want to set me straight.

In summary, I still think the company has got a while before they run out of cash.

I'd be guessing here, but I also think the export of kingfish and mulloway will also pick up, assuming this year is post-GFC.

Finally, fervent is a strong word......I simply stated my opinion, and I made it very clear that I had only analysed the stock for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Nothing suspicious about that.

I did join this site in June 2009 but haven't posted on here at all because I usually go the hot copper website. I have just started looking on this forum and also on the topstock.com.au forum in the last month or so. That probably explains my "suspicious" behaviour.

I can see there's been a few people who have been stung by the results of the last few months. Hopefully they realise that this stock has still got potential, and that right now could be last time when investor confidence is down, and thus the last time to get in before the stock goes back up to a more anticipatory price.

Just my opinion DYOR

rowdy15

 

[McCoy Pauley]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Looks like somebody believes this company has a viable future. Share price has been steadily rising since the company released its report.

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

rowdy15: If there was any suspicion in me about you having only just stumbled across CSS your last post has removed any last traces of it.

If you want estimates of how quickly they're (you're?) going to burn the cash on hand, look at the company's own reports and see. It's not going to last long enough to go through another 45 experiments, and given that each experiment takes a year, I hardly think it is a good idea to be investing now with a view to seeing the methods finally sorted out in 2055 with a view to going commercial some time after that!

Let's just have a reality check while we're at it and think about how likely it is that CSS can operate on 500k per year. That might be a fair bit of fish food, but since you seem oblivious to the fact I'll point out that CSS has overheads additional to food such as, oh, maintaining massive onshore and offshore cages, running massive filtration systems, wages, rates... honestly, your words are as far-fetched as what comes directly from CSS...coincidence?

 

[sashimi]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

As far as I can see at the moment, Clean Seas have to decide
1) Whether to utilize the Kinki University intellectual property right
2) Or to develop another method that does impinge on the existing right.
3) If and when successful the next issue may well be acclimatization of the young tuna to local water temperature.

4) Feed.
I would suggest that Kinki Uni. are well down the road of developing a vegetarian diet for tuna as this is the next most important issue.

5) Pollution.
Approx 5000t of wild tuna utilize approx 400-500 ….40metre cages in and around Port Lincoln.
25,000 tonnes of tuna growing out will utilize something like another 2000 cages. The pollution in relation to this is enormous and could utilize more than 300,000 tonnes of feed per year at the present fattening rate of 10%-12% of body weight per day.

The government sooner or later must also consider legislation that requires aquaculture ventures to clean up their mess after each year.

Opinion only DYOR.

 

[potchip]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Nothing has changed for CSS yet the share price has somehow rallied. Is this some form of manipulation and a capital raising is on the horizon?

The lesson learnt in the latest crash was simply a reality check for me, and I'm happy to have dumped all CSS shares even if at a price 80% below the current 'recovery'. The business is anything but certain, there are huge gaps that the management is not keeping the investors informed about, under the cover of 'intellectual property'. There's no guarantee that the share price will not crash again, and it will be sudden for the general public just like what happened multiple times previously.

What I failed to do as a rational investor previously was to ask the fundamental questions:
1. What can go wrong - which can be anything and everything given the track record.
2. What needs to go right for CSS to become viable, this includes all the technical obstacles of 1 being overcome plus accquire enough capital for the experiment to run its due course.

For the kind of venture this is, the focus IMO should no longer be on the ideal outcome. The bottomline for myself is simply, the risks is not for me and I'd rather wait until CSS hit $1.50+, with some of the questions answered before ever consider setting foot again.

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Nothing has changed for CSS yet the share price has somehow rallied. Is this some form of manipulation and a capital raising is on the horizon?

The lesson learnt in the latest crash was simply a reality check for me, and I'm happy to have dumped all CSS shares even if at a price 80% below the current 'recovery'. The business is anything but certain, there are huge gaps that the management is not keeping the investors informed about, under the cover of 'intellectual property'. There's no guarantee that the share price will not crash again, and it will be sudden for the general public just like what happened multiple times previously.

What I failed to do as a rational investor previously was to ask the fundamental questions:
1. What can go wrong - which can be anything and everything given the track record.
2. What needs to go right for CSS to become viable, this includes all the technical obstacles of 1 being overcome plus accquire enough capital for the experiment to run its due course.

For the kind of venture this is, the focus IMO should no longer be on the ideal outcome. The bottomline for myself is simply, the risks is not for me and I'd rather wait until CSS hit $1.50+, with some of the questions answered before ever consider setting foot again.

Hi Potchip,

The share price movement is very surprising but it is backed with big volume so i don't know about the manipulation theory. Could it be speculators?
what price did you sell at? I did not note it reaching 80% below todays price.
I like you would prefer the unknown is clearer before i invest.

Sdajii, I think the Board alone costs a million a year so i agree it is impossible for CSS to operate on 500K per year.

 

[tge oracle]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Many of CSS' s wild fluctuations in value can be attributed to pre-knowledge by informed investors in my view. In many cases these moves have predicated the release of material information.
I wouldn't hazard to guess the reason for the present increase in value , quite honestly, it could be any number of reasons, some of which have been canvased in the last few posts, however, it does warrant an explanation from the ASX as nothing has changed since the interim report..........or.......has it?

This is just another example of why investors have lost faith in this company and why, despite this uptick, I am 100% sure they will not survive as a listed entity.

Note - As always, my opinion only, DYOR.

 

[nizora]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Company news 31 march 2010

"Fingerlings that are not transferred to sea cages in April or May will be transferred to large, on‐shore, temperature and light controlled, broodstock tanks in the new tuna hatchery. For added security of the company’s tuna breeding programme these facilities are designed to assist fingerling growout until the ocean temperatures return to a level that will support their at sea survival."

There are some survival after all, apparently not all dead???

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Company news 31 march 2010

"Fingerlings that are not transferred to sea cages in April or May will be transferred to large, on‐shore, temperature and light controlled, broodstock tanks in the new tuna hatchery. For added security of the company’s tuna breeding programme these facilities are designed to assist fingerling growout until the ocean temperatures return to a level that will support their at sea survival."

There are some survival after all, apparently not all dead???

These will be from recent spawnings. Looks like they'll have another dozen or so to put in fish tanks and take pictures of this year, or knowing CSS, maybe they just said some more spawning happened and they'll release pictures of last year's handful and say they were taken this year Ask them how many they have

 

[pween]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

CSS tuna was nothing more than a vehicle for Hagen STEHR to become famous using your money. And he has achieved that so good on him. But its not a money making thing, you can lease tuna for $6 a kilo. How much do u think it is going to does cost to raise a tuna to 1kg. More than 6 bucks I would suggest.
So do your sums and work it out.

 

[nizora]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

"Is Stehr’s dream in tatters? Probably not. It has hard to write off someone tenacious enough to jump ship in 1961 and then build an empire in a tough industry. But Stehr will probably lose his position on the Rich 200 this year and could be some time before Clean Seas becomes the “Microsoft of of the fisheries business” as he once predicted."

http://www.brw.com.au/Page/Uuid/2cbc3c82-4113-11df-b2c1-3dfe5fc42b61

 

[Basilica]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

CSS tuna was nothing more than a vehicle for Hagen STEHR to become famous using your money. And he has achieved that so good on him. But its not a money making thing, you can lease tuna for $6 a kilo. How much do u think it is going to does cost to raise a tuna to 1kg. More than 6 bucks I would suggest.
So do your sums and work it out.

Hi pween, Tell us more about leasing tuna for 6$ kg, Is that some kind of share farming?

"Is Stehr’s dream in tatters? Probably not. It has hard to write off someone tenacious enough to jump ship in 1961 and then build an empire in a tough industry. But Stehr will probably lose his position on the Rich 200 this year and could be some time before Clean Seas becomes the “Microsoft of of the fisheries business” as he once predicted."

http://www.brw.com.au/Page/Uuid/2cbc3c82-4113-11df-b2c1-3dfe5fc42b61

Great article nizora, thanks i like the photo.
Does anyone think Hagen was setup in the photo sitting by the pool in a "beached whale" pose.

 

[bluewater]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

As far as I can see at the moment, Clean Seas have to decide
1) Whether to utilize the Kinki University intellectual property right
2) Or to develop another method that does impinge on the existing right.
3) If and when successful the next issue may well be acclimatization of the young tuna to local water temperature.

4) Feed.
I would suggest that Kinki Uni. are well down the road of developing a vegetarian diet for tuna as this is the next most important issue.

5) Pollution.
Approx 5000t of wild tuna utilize approx 400-500 ….40metre cages in and around Port Lincoln.
25,000 tonnes of tuna growing out will utilize something like another 2000 cages. The pollution in relation to this is enormous and could utilize more than 300,000 tonnes of feed per year at the present fattening rate of 10%-12% of body weight per day.

The government sooner or later must also consider legislation that requires aquaculture ventures to clean up their mess after each year.

Opinion only DYOR.

Sashimi, your posting confuses me a tad, you state;
5,000Mt will require 400-500 X 40mtr cages
In fact 5,000 Metric tonnes @ 4Kg/M ³ at 20Kg / per fish will require ~ 71 cages, not the 400-500 as stated. Also I have no idea where the 25,000 tonnes comes from?

 

[Sdajii]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Sashimi, your posting confuses me a tad, you state;
5,000Mt will require 400-500 X 40mtr cages
In fact 5,000 Metric tonnes @ 4Kg/M ³ at 20Kg / per fish will require ~ 71 cages, not the 400-500 as stated. Also I have no idea where the 25,000 tonnes comes from?

Amazing, another recently-joined ASF member pops straight into the CSS thread to defend CSS... I wonder who "bluewater" works for...

Look at that for a first post. Could "bluewater" be any more blatant if he tried? Is anyone being fooled?

You're probably going to get a better response if you just do it openly, "bluewater".

 

[Bigukraine]

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Amazing, another recently-joined ASF member pops straight into the CSS thread to defend CSS... I wonder who "bluewater" works for...

Look at that for a first post. Could "bluewater" be any more blatant if he tried? Is anyone being fooled?

You're probably going to get a better response if you just do it openly, "bluewater".

In the local paper in sa today stated hagen got an honorary doctorate for his life work in developing world-significant sustainable fishing industries from the Sunshine coast uni................. and i hear bernie madoff is getting one for financial planning !!!!!!!!!!!!