Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

Jump to new
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Further refelecting on today's announcement I now believe they have just written their own epitaph and it describes a sad litany of deception, dishonesty and a total lack of coprporate integrity, all of which, are essential ingredients in running a viable and profitible entity.
It is of no comfort to the faithfull invetsors who have supported them over the years, however, it is poetic justice that they should fall victim to their own indiscretion.

Today's admission will result in even the most risk tolerant traders and speculators, who have been pumping the stock up for the past few days, deserting the stock as the volume trade and volitility will disappear.

Thankyou, Mr.Knight for being forced to report the truth and not being given the opportunity to lure more unsuspecting investors into the abyss that is CSS.
Your companies richly deserved award from TIME magazine has been truly overshadowed by this deplorable lack of coporate integrity.

CSS investors have every right to be angry and disappointed but it the CSS workers and families who stand to lose the most. It is they, I feel most sorry for.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

derty said:
As I said in the comp thread, what a difference a day makes.

I only wish my actual holdings were looking as healthy as my competition figure :(
Click to expand...

Sorry Derty

did not want to rub salt.

But fishing industry as far as sharemarket goes most of the times is fishy.

There was a float called Western King Fish or something released with much fun fare about two (?) years back. I think the company now got bank rupted or making huge loss.

Unfortunately for fun CSS could be okay but for serious money I will stay out .
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi Bascilica

Fish Eggs do get transported around the world, if they are not frozen then how? ( I am sorry but I don't know the answer this and i am very interested to know)

Intellectual Property Right.

Where in this business does the Intellectual Property Right reside.

It cannot be in induced spawning because that's not a secret.
If you are in the right location and have the correct attitude they spawn naturally.

Hagen has on many occasions on public record stated that if he didn't get his way he would pack up and move to Marutius.

Question is from a practical level how could you achieve this.

So lets take Maritius as an example.

An attempt to breed southern bluefin tuna requires at mininium two things
1) Brood stock, in this case readily available in Port Lincoln and at present no where else in the southern hemisphere.
2) A ready supply of eggs and sperm or fertilized eggs.

If I was to purchase the research centre in Marutius all i would need to begin is a ready supply of eggs and I could start again. Just contact Clean Seas ask them to supply eggs pay them some money and away i go.

The first point is Clean Seas Tuna have hid behind disclosure on the grounds of Intellectual Property Right.

The second point is, if as the company says, its protecting its property right for sale for the future. You must have something to sell.
In this case its either eggs or brood stock and as Kali tuna are finding they only have to be in the right location and the right attitude to get spawning tuna at little or no cost.

No breeding project is going to take place anywhere in the world without one or the other, or both.

My question is, can anybody shed any light on what this property right might be and where it might reside.


If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Hi sashimi my answers are in bold


Fish Eggs do get transported around the world, if they are not frozen then how? ( I am sorry but I don't know the answer this and i am very interested to know)

I am unaware of any FERTILISED eggs being frozen including human eggs, unfertilised eggs have no value except during the spawning and fertilisation. Not hard to transport fertilised eggs Just send some water and O2 as well

Intellectual Property Right.
Where in this business does the Intellectual Property Right reside.
It cannot be in induced spawning because that's not a secret.
If you are in the right location and have the correct attitude they spawn naturally.

You got it, basically just in generating spawning conditions in an unnatural location, but it sounds great to investors

Question is from a practical level how could you achieve this.

So lets take Maritius as an example.

An attempt to breed southern bluefin tuna requires at mininium two things
1) Brood stock, in this case readily available in Port Lincoln and at present no where else in the southern hemisphere.
2) A ready supply of eggs and sperm or fertilized eggs.

If I was to purchase the research centre in Marutius all i would need to begin is a ready supply of eggs and I could start again. Just contact Clean Seas ask them to supply eggs pay them some money and away i go.

This is a forum for discussing CSS, I am really unsure if discussing becomming a competitor has a place here. I need some feedback from others if it is too OT to discuss. I will PM you my email address as i do find it interesting

The first point is Clean Seas Tuna have hid behind disclosure on the grounds of Intellectual Property Right.

The second point is, if as the company says, its protecting its property right for sale for the future. You must have something to sell.
In this case its either eggs or brood stock and as Kali tuna are finding they only have to be in the right location and the right attitude to get spawning tuna at little or no cost.

No breeding project is going to take place anywhere in the world without one or the other, or both.

My question is, can anybody shed any light on what this property right might be and where it might reside.

IP is a secret owned by CSS and as tuna spawning has taken place for nearly 20 years in Panama where the conditions are right. In that time the oldest reached about 100 days before dying. I assume thier IP is concerning spawning SBT at thier location. But they do not have to and have not declared what area thier IP is concerning. Their advantage is they have a head start over others breeding SBT but are a long way behing others breeding other varieties of tuna

If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare

Not sure about your point here
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare

Not sure about your point here

The point here is to
a) further inform
b) demonstrate how different the approach to this problem is when looked at from the Japanese point of view.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

sashimi said:
If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare

Not sure about your point here

The point here is to
a) further inform
b) demonstrate how different the approach to this problem is when looked at from the Japanese point of view.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think Sashimi's information is very relevant Basilica as I believe the CSS facility is in the wrong location. I have always had concerns about it being located in a relatively cold climate for most of the year. It is interesting to note that this facility is located in a sub-tropical climate. I always thought it was much further North just South of Wakayama on the main Island ( Honshu ).
When you consider that SBT spawn in the tropical Java sea , I beleive , CSS should have built their facility in Darwin.
I believe they will have much more difficulty spawning and raising SBT fingerlings in this cold climate and this may be a contributing factor to the high mortality rate.
Hagen's admission that he may move to Mauritious ( tropical climate ) adds to my suspision that the Arno Bay facility is in the wrong location and may become a White Elephant.

Note - As with all my posts , this is my opinion only. I do not hold CSS and probably never will again.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:
Yes, I think Sashimi's information is very relevant Basilica as I believe the CSS facility is in the wrong location. I have always had concerns about it being located in a relatively cold climate for most of the year. It is interesting to note that this facility is located in a sub-tropical climate. I always thought it was much further North just South of Wakayama on the main Island ( Honshu ).
When you consider that SBT spawn in the tropical Java sea , I beleive , CSS should have built their facility in Darwin.
I believe they will have much more difficulty spawning and raising SBT fingerlings in this cold climate and this may be a contributing factor to the high mortality rate.
Hagen's admission that he may move to Mauritious ( tropical climate ) adds to my suspision that the Arno Bay facility is in the wrong location and may become a White Elephant.

Note - As with all my posts , this is my opinion only. I do not hold CSS and probably never will again.
Click to expand...

I discussed this with Frank Knight last year (in a much more civil manner than I am likely to discuss anything with him again if I happen to talk to him at all). The reason for the cooler location was that in warmer water there was believed to be a greater disease risk (though perhaps we lost the lot this year thanks to disease anyway, although we don't know yet), and fish quality. In cooler water the product is firmer and with better flavour. Tropical waters tend to be more prone to nasty weather too; a cyclone could easily destroy the entire offshore facility and all the live stock.

Any increase in risk would hardly seem to make this venture more appealing. Apparently the cooler climate was chosen because fish raised in warmer water are of poorer quality, in warmer areas there is a greater disease risk (although this might be a problem too difficult to deal with even in the cold), and in tropical areas there tends to be a greater risk of inclement weather (a cyclone or nasty tropical storm could easily destroy your offshore infrastructure and entire offshore live stock).

If they moved to a warmer area I'd hardly be inspired by the greater level of risk, and even if there was a nice story which seemed convincing I wouldn't ever trust these frauds.

Speaking of fraud, has there been any official response to the "100% mortality isn't of material significance and no, we had no idea that the other fish were dying off and growing slowly" lies?
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Sdajii said:
Speaking of fraud, has there been any official response to the "100% mortality isn't of material significance and no, we had no idea that the other fish were dying off and growing slowly" lies?
Click to expand...

I dont expect any further response from ASIC. They have no idea about any of the technical issues and may well of been bluffed. + Any exta faxes will put a big dent in their budget. :)

OK Oracal i just thought i would as the opinion of others, most of what he said was relevent.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:
I dont expect any further response from ASIC. They have no idea about any of the technical issues and may well of been bluffed. + Any exta faxes will put a big dent in their budget. :)

OK Oracal i just thought i would as the opinion of others, most of what he said was relevent.
Click to expand...

Well, if nothing happens in response to such blatant lies, ASIC is literally useless and without function. It seems there is no obstacle to insider trading and nothing to keep operators honest.

Did I just say that? Sorry, next post I'll try to include something someone didn't already know :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

In cooler water the product is firmer and with better flavour. Tropical waters tend to be more prone to nasty weather too; a cyclone could easily destroy the entire offshore facility and all the live stock.

There is some merit to this however to use it justify a $100milion investment of someone else's money in the wrong place is in my opinion is nonsense and fraudulent at the least

In My opinion the way I see this is, the public money has been used wasted nothing more nothing less.

The question is what knowledge did we gain from all this.

Its the wrong location to even begin this.

When it comes to ASIC they would have no idea if they are being lied to or not.

That's the beauty of something like this. There is no-one to stand up and tell it how it is.

Where does ASIC go to find someone they can believe

$ 100 million or there about's and what did any one get for it.

Clean Seas Tuna have got to be laughing at everyone

stupid people they gave me $100 million to play with .

No repercussions nothing

This is not the first time the Australian public has been conned by the fishing industry.

The only right location is Timor the centre of the spawning grounds
no cyclones, good calm weather a dream come true.

note this is my opinion only .
Wether its qualified or not is up to others to judge
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Sadjii/Sashimi and other CSS Investors,

I can understand your anger and frustration at being profoundly mislead.
Irrespective of ASX/ASIC investigation, I am certain CSS is finished and if you are no longer invested then they can't disappoint you anymore.
In the many years I have been investing it is not often that I am 100% sure about an investment but I am about this. I am a value investor and have never shorted a stock in my life but I wish I could with CSS as I would definately invest in shorting this stock. Is any body aware if this is possible for CSS, I have never used a broker throughout the 20+ years I have been investing ( very satisfied with my own rate of returns ).

Note- My own opinion only , not based on any specific factual information ( just my gut - which I trust the most ). Please DYOR and don't regard this as financial / investing advice or recommendation.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:
Sadjii/Sashimi and other CSS Investors,

I can understand your anger and frustration at being profoundly mislead.
Irrespective of ASX/ASIC investigation, I am certain CSS is finished and if you are no longer invested then they can't disappoint you anymore.
In the many years I have been investing it is not often that I am 100% sure about an investment but I am about this. I am a value investor and have never shorted a stock in my life but I wish I could with CSS as I would definately invest in shorting this stock. Is any body aware if this is possible for CSS, I have never used a broker throughout the 20+ years I have been investing ( very satisfied with my own rate of returns ).

Note- My own opinion only , not based on any specific factual information ( just my gut - which I trust the most ). Please DYOR and don't regard this as financial / investing advice or recommendation.
Click to expand...

Good point, this one has only one way to go from here unless they can get half their book value in liquidation (which I'm guessing is unlikely). The book value is only going to go down as the cash continues to burn, so in liquidation they are going to be worth less and less over time. I can't understand why anyone would be holding now when the option of selling out at around 11-12c. The bottom line is that they are going to run out of cash before they have a hope of raising funds to continue operations, and it's difficult to imagine anyone wanting to get involved with these people after they have shown their very ugly true colours.

Few things seem more certain than CSS having a lower share price in the near future than it has now.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

CSS Investors,

Pls read report for The Austrlian today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s-as-shares-dive/story-e6frg8zx-1225837508565


As I predicted, Cap raising on the way and very soon IMO.
Still think the company will struggle and investors will be just throwing more money into the abyss. The more you participate the more you will lose......don't be fooled by the hollow promises....commercial propogation on the scale predicted by CSS is many years, possibly, decades away.
Furthermore, they intend to sell the YTK, a big mistake, they will need the revenue from YTK to support the SBT prject for the next 5-10years otherwise it will be Cap Raisings every 6-12mths to keep things going.


Note - My own opinion only , pls DYOR.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Another article from today's Australian. It would appear that the regulators do have CSS in their sights, rightly so too. CSS have made the undignified list of campanies that are accused of ignoring disclosure rules. I hope the regulators conduct a full investigation of CSS since it's inception in 2005/6. The most recent announcement is just the latest of many questionable disclosures over the past 5 years, in my view.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...lian-regulations/story-e6frg8zx-1225837519620


Note - My opinion only. DYOR.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:
CSS Investors,

Pls read report for The Austrlian today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s-as-shares-dive/story-e6frg8zx-1225837508565

As I predicted, Cap raising on the way and very soon IMO.
Still think the company will struggle and investors will be just throwing more money into the abyss. The more you participate the more you will lose......don't be fooled by the hollow promises....commercial propogation on the scale predicted by CSS is many years, possibly, decades away.
Furthermore, they intend to sell the YTK, a big mistake, they will need the revenue from YTK to support the SBT prject for the next 5-10years otherwise it will be Cap Raisings every 6-12mths to keep things going.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Oracle.
You’re right!
Actually looking back though your posts before the SP crash you were so very right...and I take my hat off to you and your “gut feelings”.
I really don’t understand why CSS are going this way about it. Selling the one thing that’s bringing in income seems insane, even for the saviour of one big capital injection. The selling of the YTK operation after the big talk up on the half yearly report stating they will rebuild it from the ground up so it can be profitable long term operation again, shows that desperate times calls for desperate measures and that invested money with them now is better off on the roulette table at the casino.
CSS days are numbered. And although I do think it’s sad because people will lose jobs and i do really feel for those people, the sadness is overcome by anger due to a whopping 50% loss from investing in this fairy tale scam.
I feel a little sorry for people still holding out hope for Clean Seas Tuna. Good luck to you I say. I shall continue to watch them and read peoples comments on ASF.:run:
IMO...
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

It looks like Asic found the funds to send another fax to ask a please explain your explination. New announcement just released explaining their explanation. Took them 5 days to respond Asic fax was 5-3 After a brief read their explination was that it does not consider the mortalities to be material. It is such a brain dead response. If the "Spawning Update" is marked price sensitive surly the "All Dead" update would be price sensitive. They had less than the target 25000 on the 18-2 on the 16-2 they had 150,000.
 
Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:
It looks like Asic found the funds to send another fax to ask a please explain your explination. New announcement just released explaining their explanation. Took them 5 days to respond Asic fax was 5-3 After a brief read their explination was that it does not consider the mortalities to be material. It is such a brain dead response. If the "Spawning Update" is marked price sensitive surly the "All Dead" update would be price sensitive. They had less than the target 25000 on the 18-2 on the 16-2 they had 150,000.
Click to expand...

Yes Basilica, carefully contrived spin in my view. I have a number of observations to make on this reply:

1. Despite projecting 25000 fingerings as pre-commercial they are now saying a number significantly less than this would be pre-commercial. Absolute nonsense , their ability to propogate in sufficent numbers is material to commercial production. If they are now saying a couple of hundred fish or even a couple of thousand is pre-commercial means they have an astronomical mortality rate and have no hope of ever being anything more than just a scientific laboratory for SBT propogation, much the same as Kinki was for 20 years.

2. They make mention of producing more fingerlings than 2009, however, we still don't know how many they produced in 2009. I could only count approx. a couple of dozen fingerlings in the youtube footage they posted last year. So I guess this years production was maybe 50-100 fingerlings?.

3. They say they had approx. 150000 fingerlings and larvae just prior to interim report date. The important word here is LARVAE. There is a big difference between larvae that last for a few days and fingerlings that have survived the larvae stage. This is very misleading in my view.....the ASX should push them to provide actual fingerling numbers. I suspect this is extremely low and most of this number was larvae.

4. They keep hiding behind the IP excuse, absolute BS. Bluefin Tuna propogation is now widely being conducted throughout the world in Asia and Europe by many of the scientists that assited CSS. I see this as nothing more than a convenient excuse to keep the market ill-informed.

5. I wish ASX would also question them about irregular trading in their securities over the past few years, particularly prior to a material announcement being made.

6. This industry is not well understood by the ASX, ASIC or many institutional/retail investors. It is easy to hoodwink those who have little knowledge of this industry or technology.
Having said that, I do believe there are some well informed and knowledgeable contributors to this forum.

Note - As always, my personal observations and opinions only. Pls conduct your own research and don't construe my comments as investing advice or recommendations.
 

Similar threads

ducati916
February 2025
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
ducati916
ducati916
R
Great Companies
Replies
3
Views
2K
divs4ever
divs4ever
R
AMZN - Amazon Relative Valuations (NASDAQ)
Replies
4
Views
2K
mullokintyre
mullokintyre
divs4ever
ZYAU - S&P/ASX 300 High Yield Plus ETF
Replies
0
Views
1K
divs4ever
divs4ever
ducati916
August 2024 DDD
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
19K
ducati916
ducati916
Top