Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

mellifuous

Aaaaah. I think I get it.

Back to July-Sep 08.

I think all agreed that the redemption rules in the constitution HAD to be amended. The 360 day limit for the deferment of redemptions was fast approaching.

WC's proposed Resolution 1 "extinguishes the Unitholders' right to redemption"

JH sold the NSX Listing during the Roadshow to me as:- providing liquidity. (Arguably also in the Explanatory Memorandum. (EM)) I.e. that this was something on the side, something extra that WC was doing to help out. Those that really needed to get out, could get out.

But we're now saying that what was really happening was that by extinguishing the right to redemption, the fund HAD to list (or provide an alternative exit route for investors). HAD TO list because of some legislation somewhere. Is that what you're saying?

And the extinguishing of redemption rights led unavoidably to changes in the way tax was treated in the fund?

Not according to WC. First line of page 56 of the EM "there will be no material change in Australian income tax legislation or other legislation that may affect the Fund"

I'm not having a go at you mellifuous. I'm just trying to know how much I don't know.

It was a complete surprise to me to learn that on top of paying income tax on the 'distributions', I also had to pay tax on my share of any Capital Gains Tax the fund chooses to pass on to investors. Something that my half baked financial adviser didn't tell me.

Section 9.1 of the EM is frightening. My understanding is that Unitholders are still 'presently entitled to the income of the fund'. Right? If so then 9.1 says that I have to pay the fund's income tax even if WC decide to keep those $ in the fund. I'm exposed to so much risk. WC could hold all income in the fund, increasing the fund value to increase WC's profit and pay lawyers and Perpetual, and I'd have to pay more money out of my pocket to the tax office for the priveledge. Is that correct? Anyone?

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

mellifuous

Aaaaah. I think I get it.

Back to July-Sep 08.

I think all agreed that the redemption rules in the constitution HAD to be amended. The 360 day limit for the deferment of redemptions was fast approaching.

WC's proposed Resolution 1 "extinguishes the Unitholders' right to redemption"

JH sold the NSX Listing during the Roadshow to me as:- providing liquidity. (Arguably also in the Explanatory Memorandum. (EM)) I.e. that this was something on the side, something extra that WC was doing to help out. Those that really needed to get out, could get out.

But we're now saying that what was really happening was that by extinguishing the right to redemption, the fund HAD to list (or provide an alternative exit route for investors). HAD TO list because of some legislation somewhere. Is that what you're saying?

And the extinguishing of redemption rights led unavoidably to changes in the way tax was treated in the fund?

Not according to WC. First line of page 56 of the EM "there will be no material change in Australian income tax legislation or other legislation that
may affect the Fund"

I'm not having a go at you mellifuous. I'm just trying to know how much I don't know.

It was a complete surprise to me to learn that on top of paying income tax on the 'distributions', I also had to pay tax on my share of any Capital Gains Tax the fund chooses to pass on to investors. Something that my half baked financial adviser didn't tell me.

Section 9.1 of the EM is frightening. My understanding is that Unitholders are still 'presently entitled to the income of the fund'. Right? If so then 9.1 says that I have to pay the fund's income tax even if WC decide to keep that $ in the fund. I'm exposed to so much risk. WC could hold all income in the fund, increasing the fund value to increase WC's profit and pay lawyers and Perpetual, and I'd have to pay more money out of my pocket to the tax office for the priveledge. Is that correct? Anyone?

Hi Duped,

No, the actions only HAD to be done if all the proposals were agreed to - all the actions were carried out simultanneously - the listing and the extinguishing of investors' rights to redemptions. The effect of this was that (except for the promises made by W.C.) members were no longer entitled to any return of capital from the fund. Members would have to sell their respective units on the NSX to recover their capital. It was all part of the one deal.

'no material change in Australian Income Tax Legislation or other legislation that may affect the fund' may very well be true, except that investors' tax obligations have been set out by the manager, and that prudent investors should have checked (as directed by W.C.) with their accountants and/or tax advisors. Investors tax postion has certainly changed, even if the fund's hasn't.

Blind Freddy could see that if 'distributions' were fund expenses (as set out in the memorandum), and that 'distributions' could include capital (again in the memorandum), so then everyone must immediately see a profound change from a unlisted fund which would not be permitted to make a distribution from capital, especially when the fund has such losses and impairments with no income. W.C. clearly set out that such 'distributions' were income as defined in ITAA.

With respect to 'income of the fund', there is NO INCOME, except to say that money will come into the fund from the sale of assets but these monies will a return of capital, and in any event there will be no profit to distribute. The fund is in deep loss which will never be overcome - so, forget about income INTO the fund, of profit in the fund, forget about the fund paying tax, but keep in mind what might happen when the fund pays investors - any entity, members or the fund, could end up paying tax on money paid from the fund to investors.

That's how I see it.

..

 

[Sister Act]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am new to this webite and these forums. I am interested in Rolf Koops relationship to Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF. He is mentioned in several posts in relation to his having his passport confiscated over business dealings with another thread LKM Capital Debenture Holders.

Thanks!

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

While waiting for the release of the 'imminent' update today I was thinking about the response I got from WC yesterday assuring me PIF investors would be receiving said update in Jan (cutting it a bit fine Jenny!) and thought the wording was a bit odd.

'Investor updates are published every four months - April, August and December, and are published during the following month. The December update is due to be released in January, and will be released via the NSX'

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/published
pub·lish (pblsh)

v. pub·lished, pub·lish·ing, pub·lish·es
v.tr.
1. To prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.
2. To bring to the public attention; announce. See Synonyms at announce.
v.intr.
1. To issue a publication.
2. To be the writer or author of published works or a work.

If the Dec update had already been 'published', what was the hold up?

A bit obscure in my opinion or just more BS for another stalling tactic.

I beleive the Australian Shareholders Association is monitoring the progress of (or more specifically, lack of progress) the Dec release we were told in our last PIF update(released Sept 1 2009) was 'due to be released at the end of Dec 2009'!!! I know I am :horse: but failure to make continuous disclosure to investors can have serious consequences if any information which is considered 'price sensitive' has not been released to the NSX when it became available. I am not saying this is the case. Also, I know the NSX has had to contact WC previously to correct certain information regarding the Class Action.

I tried to call the WC hotline not long ago and got the message 'all our operators are currently busy', yeah right!! (licking stamps?)

Yes I know, I keep dragging this issue up but it is simply not GOOD ENOUGH and I will continue to make noise whether it achieves results or not!!! Five months without an investor update for those that are not computer savvy would be extremely stressfull to many. Gross incompetence is totally unacceptable from so called professionals!! Seamisty

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

. Gross incompetence is totally unacceptable from so called professionals!! Seamisty[/QUOTE]

Hear bloody hear!!!!!

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

. Gross incompetence is totally unacceptable from so called professionals!! Seamisty

Hear bloody hear!!!!![/QUOTE]It's very rare PIF investors have anything to laugh about regarding this fund JohnH, but I found your reason for having to edit your last post a total crack up!!!!!!! I wonder how many others feel as disgusted and let down as we do with the current apparent mismanagement? Seamisty

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hear bloody hear!!!!!

It's very rare PIF investors have anything to laugh about regarding this fund JohnH, but I found your reason for having to edit your last post a total crack up!!!!!!! I wonder how many others feel as disgusted and let down as we do with the current apparent mismanagement? Seamisty[/QUOTE]

....I must learn to spell as well!!!

 

[charles36]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SISTER ACT As far as I am aware Rolf Koops and LKM have no connection to MFS etc. However, a post went on the ASF drawing attention to LKM debenture holder's plight and ASIC'S action. If you are a debenture holder in LKM and desire any further information perhaps we can arrange to contact. I am the Action Group leader.

 

[charles36]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SEAMISTY AND OTHERS. Perhaps the reason there is no update because there is no update//Nothing to tell us, the fund is doing nothing but bleeding and the manager of the RE is seeking other income from new ventures. With a bit of luck the update maybe a "swansong.'

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SEAMISTY AND OTHERS. Perhaps the reason there is no update because there is no update//Nothing to tell us, the fund is doing nothing but bleeding and the manager of the RE is seeking other income from new ventures. With a bit of luck the update maybe a "swansong.'

You could well be right Charles, but anyone with an ounce of business acumen would not employ staff that would deliberately mislead investors and media alike with providing false statements regarding pending announcements and leave themselves open for further criticism by not honouring those statements would they? No Jenny Hutson of 'Wellington Capital merchant bank with four core areas of expertise all with a property focus' would surely value her previous reputation too much to do that, maybe the NSX had a glitch and will post the evasive little sucker today!!!! Seamisty



Business Acumen

Business acumen is one of the 5 Executive Core Qualifications (ECQs).

Business acumen is the ability to acquire and administer human, financial, material, and information resources in a manner that instills public trust and accomplishes the organization's mission, and the ability to use new technology to enhance decision making.

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

In todays AFR: Property

ASIC under spotlight over trusts

Activist investors in the $60 billion unlisted property trust sector want the corporate regulator to impose greater transparency on the lending arrangements underpinning their investments....

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You could well be right Charles, but anyone with an ounce of business acumen would not employ staff that would deliberately mislead investors and media alike with providing false statements regarding pending announcements and leave themselves open for further criticism by not honouring those statements would they? No Jenny Hutson of 'Wellington Capital merchant bank with four core areas of expertise all with a property focus' would surely value her previous reputation too much to do that, maybe the NSX had a glitch and will post the evasive little sucker today!!!! Seamisty



Business Acumen

Business acumen is one of the 5 Executive Core Qualifications (ECQs).

Business acumen is the ability to acquire and administer human, financial, material, and information resources in a manner that instills public trust and accomplishes the organization's mission, and the ability to use new technology to enhance decision making.

Also I forgot to add, if there is nothing to report to or update members on after five months it certainly accounts for the reason potential investors are staying away in droves from our severely impaired units wallowing on the NSX at 9 cents.


Another point of interest, try accessing the media archive section on our newpif website http://www.newpif.com.au/mediareleases.html
INVESTOR AND
MEDIA UPDATES

> 2008 News Archive

All that you can access is NSX PIF announcements from Feb 2009. Another glitch or have all the glowing media accolades full of hope and promises gone? (Said missing articles are still posted on the Wellcap site up to Sept 19th 2009 minus any mention of court appearances!! ) Too much of an embarrassment to be posted along side nothing but past and pending court appearances maybe or am I just having difficulty accessing all the original media articles section? Seamisty

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty - The PIF website is really uninviting to use.
.
Is it any wonder that the PIF Helpline(?) is overloaded with anxious callers seeking information? Investors not linked to this forum are, sadly, left absolutely in the dark. If there is no update issued on Monday next, surely the authorities must step in.

 

[Sister Act]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SISTER ACT As far as I am aware Rolf Koops and LKM have no connection to MFS etc. However, a post went on the ASF drawing attention to LKM debenture holder's plight and ASIC'S action. If you are a debenture holder in LKM and desire any further information perhaps we can arrange to contact. I am the Action Group leader.

Thanks Charles.

 

[Cookie1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Marcom,

I've scanned and attached the article entitled "ASIC under spotlight over trusts" from the Weekend AFR today.

Cheers, Cookie1

 

[Cookie1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There's another article of interest in the Weekend Australian Financial Review today in the Perspective section entitled "Where the Property Men Went" by Lisa Allen. As it was a 2-page spread I've had to cut and paste on 3 pages. Included are Michael King, Phil Adams, Craig White, Jim Raptis, and Craig Gore (included for Mellifluous and those involved with City Pacific and Balmain Trilogy). I have not included the write-ups on Henry Kaye nor Robert Bassili but will do so if anyone wants them posted.

Thanks to Lisa Allen of the AFR for her article.

Cheers, Cookie1

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There's another article of interest in the Weekend Australian Financial Review today in the Perspective section entitled "Where the Property Men Went" by Lisa Allen. As it was a 2-page spread I've had to cut and paste on 3 pages. Included are Michael King, Phil Adams, Craig White, Jim Raptis, and Craig Gore (included for Mellifluous and those involved with City Pacific and Balmain Trilogy). I have not included the write-ups on Henry Kaye nor Robert Bassili but will do so if anyone wants them posted.

Thanks to Lisa Allen of the AFR for her article.

Cheers, Cookie1

Thanks Cookie for posting that and thanks to the intrepid reporters that have provided PIF investors with a further 'update' as to the whereabouts and activities of those associated and possibly responsible to our current predicament. Wellington Capital Premium Income Fund Investors are basically left on their own when it comes to disclosing/revealing information relating to pIF activities. Thank goodness Wellington Capital do not have access to management fees or until the 3 cent repayment of capital to investors happens, which I imagine is higher on the agenda than a four monthly investor update which is looking more likely to be a five monthly plus . I would sincerely like nothing more than to be proved wrong regarding Wellington Capitals 'and Jenny Hutsons' proven/promised performance in relation to investor expectations. I will be the first to deliver an apology if it is ever warranted re information in relation to the current status of our fund. Seamisty

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If any PIF investors are becoming tired of my continuous 'negative Wellington Capital' posts and think it is becoming a detriment to this thread, please do not hesitate to voice your opinion on here. I would hate to think my efforts are viewed as detrimental in our ongoing commitment to return PIF related information to unitholders because I even get tired of my same old ' negative rhetoric' and am strong enough( I think )to fight on off forum Thanks, Seamisty

 

[communique]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If any PIF investors are becoming tired of my continuous 'negative Wellington Capital' posts and think it is becoming a detriment to this thread, please do not hesitate to voice your opinion on here. I would hate to think my efforts are viewed as detrimental in our ongoing commitment to return PIF related information to unitholders because I even get tired of my same old ' negative rhetoric' and am strong enough( I think )to fight on off forum Thanks, Seamisty

The number of your posts is in proportion with how much you invested. You deserve to get it off your chest. However, others prefer to work behind the scenes to see justice be done but don’t like to post too much. It doesn’t mean we don’t follow your posts religiously.

Don’t despair Seamisty! Eventually justice will be done.

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There's another article of interest in the Weekend Australian Financial Review today in the Perspective section entitled "Where the Property Men Went" by Lisa Allen. As it was a 2-page spread I've had to cut and paste on 3 pages. Included are Michael King, Phil Adams, Craig White, Jim Raptis, and Craig Gore (included for Mellifluous and those involved with City Pacific and Balmain Trilogy). I have not included the write-ups on Henry Kaye nor Robert Bassili but will do so if anyone wants them posted.

Thanks to Lisa Allen of the AFR for her article.

Cheers, Cookie1

Thanks Cookie1 - I've posted your posts on the Coffee Club forum at Yahoo groups.

"some of them were working on their new scheme before their old one scheme had collapsed"

Now, there's confidence for you.

The need for transparency has been paramount for at least two years now, but as investors, we have been denied the right to make informed decisions about our respective fund's futures.

I think the movement for legislative change is gathering momentum.

Again, thanks.

..