Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thank you for all the updates and hard work that has taken place over a long period. We all hope that it comes to some sort of positive oiutcome. Geoffrey d 214,000
Thank you for all the updates and hard work that has taken place over a long period. We all hope that it comes to some sort of positive oiutcome. Geoffrey d 214,000
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Although I can't give you a legal opinion, I think that is a standard disclaimer to the effect, that if the email is received by another person, then the clause applies - it does not apply to you, because you are the 'intended addressee'.
Such a disclaimer is standard on ALL emails (and not letters) because of the likelihood of an email document being misdirected by the mechanisms of the net.
It is your document - you are able to do with it as you wish.
There is no need for you to be intimidated by such a clause - that's not the clause's intention.
Have a good one.
Although I can't give you a legal opinion, I think that is a standard disclaimer to the effect, that if the email is received by another person, then the clause applies - it does not apply to you, because you are the 'intended addressee'.
Such a disclaimer is standard on ALL emails (and not letters) because of the likelihood of an email document being misdirected by the mechanisms of the net.
It is your document - you are able to do with it as you wish.
There is no need for you to be intimidated by such a clause - that's not the clause's intention.
Have a good one.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thank you mellifuous,
They also included a copyright note!!!! Here is the disclaimer in full!!!
The content of this e-mail, including any attachments is a confidential communication between Wellington Capital Limited (or the sender if this email is a private communication) and the intended addressee and is for the sole use of that intended addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorized and prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please contact the sender immediately and then delete the message and any attachment(s). There is no warranty that this email is error, virus or defect free. This email is also subject to copyright. If this is a private communication it does not represent the views of Wellington Capital Limited. This document (including attachments) is only intended for its addressee/s and may contain privileged or confidential information. Unauthorised use, copying or distribution of this document or any part of its contents, is prohibited. If you receive this document in error please telephone us or by return email.
Thank you mellifuous,
They also included a copyright note!!!! Here is the disclaimer in full!!!
The content of this e-mail, including any attachments is a confidential communication between Wellington Capital Limited (or the sender if this email is a private communication) and the intended addressee and is for the sole use of that intended addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorized and prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please contact the sender immediately and then delete the message and any attachment(s). There is no warranty that this email is error, virus or defect free. This email is also subject to copyright. If this is a private communication it does not represent the views of Wellington Capital Limited. This document (including attachments) is only intended for its addressee/s and may contain privileged or confidential information. Unauthorised use, copying or distribution of this document or any part of its contents, is prohibited. If you receive this document in error please telephone us or by return email.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Good day mellifuos,
I hope this will not become a blown out issue. If "sharing" will be limited to a general outline of this and similar private communications, then we simply need to accept it. At least this shows there are communications. Would you agree?
Cheers, simgrund
Good day mellifuos,
I hope this will not become a blown out issue. If "sharing" will be limited to a general outline of this and similar private communications, then we simply need to accept it. At least this shows there are communications. Would you agree?
Cheers, simgrund
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Well, no, not really - if it was a letter addressed to me, then I would publish it.
Such warnings are meant to deter use by third parties, not the addressee.
Seek some proper advise - but, I can say this, if you're scared to post a letter from the manager to a member of your fund, then things just ain't looking good for you.
The Corporations Act mandates that the manager must treat all members equally, so a letter to one which would give information to be excluded from others would be in breach of the law. Think about it!
Of course, this would exclude the addressee's private information, however, if the addressee wished to release that information, that is fine.
If you're unsure, hide the letter in a dark corner of the attic of your house, or better still, bury it in a small safe somewhere deep within a state forest.
Funny? you bet.
Well, no, not really - if it was a letter addressed to me, then I would publish it.
Such warnings are meant to deter use by third parties, not the addressee.
Seek some proper advise - but, I can say this, if you're scared to post a letter from the manager to a member of your fund, then things just ain't looking good for you.
The Corporations Act mandates that the manager must treat all members equally, so a letter to one which would give information to be excluded from others would be in breach of the law. Think about it!
Of course, this would exclude the addressee's private information, however, if the addressee wished to release that information, that is fine.
If you're unsure, hide the letter in a dark corner of the attic of your house, or better still, bury it in a small safe somewhere deep within a state forest.
Funny? you bet.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I should add that members of managed funds have a lot of legal rights yet do not seem to know even the slightest extent of the limits of those rights.
I think you do yourselves a great disservice to limit your expression on this site and elsewhere due only to a lack of proper advice.
Why don't you put a few pennies each into a common fund to gain legal advice from time to time as you need it, or perhaps you could have such advice given to you by your leadership (you have the CA - I'm sure the lawyers there would be helpful to you all).
Each of you should feel free to express yourselves to the fullest extent of the law.
Don't be intimidated by the unknown - it is not necessary.
The notices/warning included at the bottom of emails is a normal commercial practice and it not in any way intended to be interpreted as a limitation of the rights of the addressee. Your manager is not doing anything different to most legal firms and businesses.
I should add that members of managed funds have a lot of legal rights yet do not seem to know even the slightest extent of the limits of those rights.
I think you do yourselves a great disservice to limit your expression on this site and elsewhere due only to a lack of proper advice.
Why don't you put a few pennies each into a common fund to gain legal advice from time to time as you need it, or perhaps you could have such advice given to you by your leadership (you have the CA - I'm sure the lawyers there would be helpful to you all).
Each of you should feel free to express yourselves to the fullest extent of the law.
Don't be intimidated by the unknown - it is not necessary.
The notices/warning included at the bottom of emails is a normal commercial practice and it not in any way intended to be interpreted as a limitation of the rights of the addressee. Your manager is not doing anything different to most legal firms and businesses.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Can anyone please advise me as to where the details of the charter for the investor committee can be found ?
Can anyone please advise me as to where the details of the charter for the investor committee can be found ?
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Committee members must be unitholders in the Fund.
Can spouses of unitholders nominate?
No. Nomination is available to current unitholders of the Fund only. Where a unitholder is a company or trust, one
nominated representative from the unitholder may nominate themselves.
How will the vote be conducted?
All unitholders will be provided with a booklet containing information on each nominee, together with a voting
form.
Each unitholder will be able to vote for the three unitholders they wish to nominate for the committee. The three
unitholders with the highest number of votes will be invited to be appointed to the committee.
The vote will be conducted in the same way as the proxy count was conducted in 2008. Each unitholder vote will
depend on the number of units held by the particular unitholder. For example, a unitholder who holds 10,000 units
will have 10,000 votes.
How long is the appointment for?
Appointment to the committee is for a period of 2 years. In the event a member of the committee:
no longer wishes to participate or is no longer able to participate;
sells their entire unitholding and therefore becomes ineligible to remain on the committee,
the unitholder who received the next highest number of votes in the initial voting process will be invited to join the
committee for the remainder of the outgoing committee member’s 2 year term.
Members of the committee are not representatives of the board of Wellington Capital Limited as responsible entity
of the Premium Income Fund, nor part of the management of the Fund, but are independent representatives which
form a consultation group.
How often will the meetings be held and where?
Committee meetings will be held quarterly by teleconference. There will be no cost to unitholders who will be able
to dial in to a private 1300 teleconference facility from within Australia.
What is the role of the Investor Advisory Committee?
The purpose of the Investor Advisory Committee is to ensure investor input into the decision making process of the
Fund into the future.
Members of the committee will have an opportunity to discuss current issues with the board and management team
and the outcome of each committee meeting will be provided to all unitholders in the following Investor Update.
Each committee member will have the discretion to decide whether or not to provide an email address for contact
by other unitholders in the Fund.
What is the role of the Investor Advisory Committee?
The purpose of the Investor Advisory Committee is to ensure
investor input into the decision making process of the Fund.
Members of the committee will have an opportunity to discuss
current issues with the Board and management team and the
outcome of each committee meeting will be provided to all
Unitholders in the following Investor Update
What more can I add, we have 3 extremely popular PIF investors who are our elected IAG reps which remain anonymous to the only popular public contact point for PIF investors where concerns and issues are openly discussed. Who will be bothered to contact and trust WC to pass on complaints and current issues to a third party without censoring the original question? Not me, my time is limited and I know when not to waste it. ( Besides, we will probablly get billed for the effort!!) Seamisty
Hi k.smith, this is about as good as you will get regarding the role and responsibility of our duly elected IAG reps:::
Committee members must be unitholders in the Fund.
Can spouses of unitholders nominate?
No. Nomination is available to current unitholders of the Fund only. Where a unitholder is a company or trust, one
nominated representative from the unitholder may nominate themselves.
How will the vote be conducted?
All unitholders will be provided with a booklet containing information on each nominee, together with a voting
form.
Each unitholder will be able to vote for the three unitholders they wish to nominate for the committee. The three
unitholders with the highest number of votes will be invited to be appointed to the committee.
The vote will be conducted in the same way as the proxy count was conducted in 2008. Each unitholder vote will
depend on the number of units held by the particular unitholder. For example, a unitholder who holds 10,000 units
will have 10,000 votes.
How long is the appointment for?
Appointment to the committee is for a period of 2 years. In the event a member of the committee:
no longer wishes to participate or is no longer able to participate;
sells their entire unitholding and therefore becomes ineligible to remain on the committee,
the unitholder who received the next highest number of votes in the initial voting process will be invited to join the
committee for the remainder of the outgoing committee member’s 2 year term.
Members of the committee are not representatives of the board of Wellington Capital Limited as responsible entity
of the Premium Income Fund, nor part of the management of the Fund, but are independent representatives which
form a consultation group.
How often will the meetings be held and where?
Committee meetings will be held quarterly by teleconference. There will be no cost to unitholders who will be able
to dial in to a private 1300 teleconference facility from within Australia.
What is the role of the Investor Advisory Committee?
The purpose of the Investor Advisory Committee is to ensure investor input into the decision making process of the
Fund into the future.
Members of the committee will have an opportunity to discuss current issues with the board and management team
and the outcome of each committee meeting will be provided to all unitholders in the following Investor Update.
Each committee member will have the discretion to decide whether or not to provide an email address for contact
by other unitholders in the Fund.
What is the role of the Investor Advisory Committee?
The purpose of the Investor Advisory Committee is to ensure
investor input into the decision making process of the Fund.
Members of the committee will have an opportunity to discuss
current issues with the Board and management team and the
outcome of each committee meeting will be provided to all
Unitholders in the following Investor Update
What more can I add, we have 3 extremely popular PIF investors who are our elected IAG reps which remain anonymous to the only popular public contact point for PIF investors where concerns and issues are openly discussed. Who will be bothered to contact and trust WC to pass on complaints and current issues to a third party without censoring the original question? Not me, my time is limited and I know when not to waste it. ( Besides, we will probablly get billed for the effort!!) Seamisty
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks for the information Seamisty - I'm hoping we'll be able to replace the committee B/T is putting together for the FMF with a 'Suggestions Box' (email address)
http://www.moneymagik.com/new_proposal.php
Perhaps your experiences will allow us to avoid the false hope that such committees give to members.
Thank you.
Thanks for the information Seamisty - I'm hoping we'll be able to replace the committee B/T is putting together for the FMF with a 'Suggestions Box' (email address)
http://www.moneymagik.com/new_proposal.php
Perhaps your experiences will allow us to avoid the false hope that such committees give to members.
Thank you.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
'FALSE HOPE' is right Mellifuous, PIF investors were given plenty of that from Wellington Capital and Jenny Hutson. IAC, suggestion box, hotline, personal business cards with contact details etc, all services are as much use as t1ts on a boar pig if not answered with correct information!!! The installation of such services is to appease restless investors but at the end of the day are only window dressing and another excuse to clock up more 'operating expenses' and increase the number of staff to make the business look successfull IMO. I will be surprised if FMF is any different from PIF. Cheers, Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I am interested to see what the outcome from Wednesdays and Fridays court appearances will be. Seamisty
Simgrund I doubt we would ever have access to all that information. My guess is the real figures will be kept from investors, just like the correct details of the Wollongong hotel sale which had to be ferreted out from several sources. It is my understanding not even N Nichols from the Gold Coast Bulletin was provided with the correct information from JH regarding the sale! We can only hope that with the involvement of ASIC the truth and accountability of all those involved in the management of the PIF, past and present, that the facts will be closely monitored and documented. It is up to us investors to ensure we keep up the effort of being heard until we are satisfied all that is humanly possible has been done to retrieve every last cent in compensation from those responsible and somewhere along the way the way and the few remaining PIF assets are actually managed profitably.
I am interested to see what the outcome from Wednesdays and Fridays court appearances will be. Seamisty
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Documents filed with Federal Court that will be considered at the hearings 16 & 18 December: (Note the various documents filed by WC)
11-Dec-2009 Affidavit Wellington Investment Management Ltd
10-Dec-2009 Notice of Appearance Michael King
09-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Guy Hutchings
03-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Michael Hiscock
03-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Andrea Waters
02-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Dec-2009 Amended Document Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Dec-2009 Affidavit Max Investments (Aust) Pty Ltd
02-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions John Whateley
02-Dec-2009 Affidavit Max Investments (Aust) Pty Ltd
16-Nov-2009 Notice of Change in Address for Service or Contact Details Ian Zelinski
04-Nov-2009 Affidavit Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Nov-2009 Affidavit Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Nov-2009 Notice of Motion Wellington Investment Management Ltd
23-Oct-2009 Affidavit Max Investments (Aust) Pty Ltd
23-Oct-2009 Notice of Motion Mansted Enterprises Pty Ltd
Documents filed with Federal Court that will be considered at the hearings 16 & 18 December: (Note the various documents filed by WC)
11-Dec-2009 Affidavit Wellington Investment Management Ltd
10-Dec-2009 Notice of Appearance Michael King
09-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Guy Hutchings
03-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Michael Hiscock
03-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Andrea Waters
02-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Dec-2009 Amended Document Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Dec-2009 Affidavit Max Investments (Aust) Pty Ltd
02-Dec-2009 Outline of Submissions John Whateley
02-Dec-2009 Affidavit Max Investments (Aust) Pty Ltd
16-Nov-2009 Notice of Change in Address for Service or Contact Details Ian Zelinski
04-Nov-2009 Affidavit Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Nov-2009 Affidavit Wellington Investment Management Ltd
02-Nov-2009 Notice of Motion Wellington Investment Management Ltd
23-Oct-2009 Affidavit Max Investments (Aust) Pty Ltd
23-Oct-2009 Notice of Motion Mansted Enterprises Pty Ltd
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks Seamisty. I'm not going mad after all. I thought that I had dreamt this released WC info about the IAC: "Committee meetings will be held quarterly by teleconference. There will be no cost to unitholders who will be able
to dial in to a private 1300 teleconference facility from within Australia."
OK, Ms Hutson, please give us a date and time - and a 1300 number for the teleconference.
Thanks Seamisty. I'm not going mad after all. I thought that I had dreamt this released WC info about the IAC: "Committee meetings will be held quarterly by teleconference. There will be no cost to unitholders who will be able
to dial in to a private 1300 teleconference facility from within Australia."
OK, Ms Hutson, please give us a date and time - and a 1300 number for the teleconference.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
'Lawyer versus lawyer' Marcom, Iv'e read the correspondence between Wellington Capitals Jenny Hutson and Carney lawyers in relation to the cooperation of the current RE on behalf of PIF investors and have also discussed the lack of cooperation with one of the CA lawyers and even though I'm not a judge, I am intrigued as to the outcome and what evidence JH (Wellington Investment management Ltd) will offer to be removed from the CA. If WIML is not removed, in my opinion it will be further evidence of JH not working in the best interests of unit holders. Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Just had a relook at the "September Update". Wellington have given an email address for our representatives - iac@newpif.com.au! They say it will be checked daily, and forwarded on to the relevant member.
Has anyone invited them to contribute to this forum???
Just had a relook at the "September Update". Wellington have given an email address for our representatives - iac@newpif.com.au! They say it will be checked daily, and forwarded on to the relevant member.
Has anyone invited them to contribute to this forum???
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
b) if the duly elected IAC reps are dedicated enough to consider making contact other with PIF unit holders so they can represent us without WC intervention.
Surely if they are genuinely concerned about the future direction of the PIF, their concerns would be similar to ours voiced on this thread. It may also put to rest our concerns as to how effective the whole IAC issue will be. Seamisty
Go for it JohnH!!! Will be a good test to see a) if investors input is passed on.
b) if the duly elected IAC reps are dedicated enough to consider making contact other with PIF unit holders so they can represent us without WC intervention.
Surely if they are genuinely concerned about the future direction of the PIF, their concerns would be similar to ours voiced on this thread. It may also put to rest our concerns as to how effective the whole IAC issue will be. Seamisty
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
All these legal battles must be enthralling for the battle ready lawyer JH ...... but that's not her job. Where's the business plan to grow PIF?
C'mon. Anything. Or is this thing going to be run like a Madoff fund - all secret secret and 'just trust me'.
C'mon WC, lets get that share price up. ASIC gave our share price a free kick with the proceeds of its action going back into the fund. Non taxability of cash payments, a good business plan, good brand (i.e. delivering on promises), low costs, growing value, etc. They all help the share price up.
All these legal battles must be enthralling for the battle ready lawyer JH ...... but that's not her job. Where's the business plan to grow PIF?
C'mon. Anything. Or is this thing going to be run like a Madoff fund - all secret secret and 'just trust me'.
C'mon WC, lets get that share price up. ASIC gave our share price a free kick with the proceeds of its action going back into the fund. Non taxability of cash payments, a good business plan, good brand (i.e. delivering on promises), low costs, growing value, etc. They all help the share price up.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
seamisty, I think you have identified the central problem - If WIML is not removed, in my opinion it will be further evidence of JH not working in the best interests of unit holders.
Therefore WC would be (and indeed already is) placed in a position of conflict between the Corporations Act requirement for a RE to act in the best interests of investors and WC's desire not to be sued in the CA. The Act calls on a RE to subjugate its corporate interests and promote investors interests. The mere fact that investors are suing the RE (albeit in its past guise) in a CA environment immediatly places that RE in conflict with its basic responsibility to investors.
The appropriate course of action in the knowledge that the CA will take some time to conclude, is for WC to stand aside and place PIF in the experienced hands of the Trustee Perpetual until a satisfactory resolution.
seamisty, I think you have identified the central problem - If WIML is not removed, in my opinion it will be further evidence of JH not working in the best interests of unit holders.
Therefore WC would be (and indeed already is) placed in a position of conflict between the Corporations Act requirement for a RE to act in the best interests of investors and WC's desire not to be sued in the CA. The Act calls on a RE to subjugate its corporate interests and promote investors interests. The mere fact that investors are suing the RE (albeit in its past guise) in a CA environment immediatly places that RE in conflict with its basic responsibility to investors.
The appropriate course of action in the knowledge that the CA will take some time to conclude, is for WC to stand aside and place PIF in the experienced hands of the Trustee Perpetual until a satisfactory resolution.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thank you seamisty. As with other progresses, this will be a slow one. But signs are there that information will be forthcoming more readily once the IAC channels are firmly established.
And to JOHN H re """"Just had a relook at the "September Update". Wellington have given an email address for our representatives - iac@newpif.com.au! They say it will be checked daily, and forwarded on to the relevant member.
Has anyone invited them to contribute to this forum???"""" ............
We can rightly claim that recent pushes to open the communication channels have hit their marks. A modest pat to our collective back is apropriate.
With best wishes to all, simgrund
Thank you seamisty. As with other progresses, this will be a slow one. But signs are there that information will be forthcoming more readily once the IAC channels are firmly established.
And to JOHN H re """"Just had a relook at the "September Update". Wellington have given an email address for our representatives - iac@newpif.com.au! They say it will be checked daily, and forwarded on to the relevant member.
Has anyone invited them to contribute to this forum???"""" ............
We can rightly claim that recent pushes to open the communication channels have hit their marks. A modest pat to our collective back is apropriate.
With best wishes to all, simgrund
