Raise the legal drinking age to 21?

[beerwm]

just cause you change the legal drinking age, doesnt mean people wont drink.

the troublemakers would still drink[parties] or get fake ids.

most australias start at 15 or 16, im guessing.

 

[Calliope]

What would be the point. Children under 18 have no trouble getting all the grog they need now, and the law does very little about it. It is a waste of time making laws that can't (or won't) 'be policed.

The policing at Schoolies' Week is only to ensure that the teenagers don't make too much of a public nuisance while drunk.

 

[Smurf1976]

just cause you change the legal drinking age, doesnt mean people wont drink.

the troublemakers would still drink[parties] or get fake ids.

most australias start at 15 or 16, im guessing.

Not many Australians would reach the age of 16 without having tried alcohol and also smoking, both of which are illegal at that age. Prohibition in any form never has and never will work, that's the lesson of history and we see it clearly today as well.

Raising prices only works when there is no alternative. It's already near the point of being cheaper to take (illegal) pills than to drink alcohol. Let's face it, what would you prefer your children did when they reach their late teens? Get drunk, make a fool of themselves and call you at 3am wanting a lift home? Or would you prefer they end up on illegal drugs? I think most would prefer they stick to alcohol.

If it were me, I'd lower the age limit for consumption within licensed premises to 16 and leave it at 18 for bottleshop sales. It's not pubs and clubs that are the problem once you realise that 70% of alcohol is sold at bottle shops and that in 2009 pre drinks are the norm.

It's a reality that people are going to drink to excess, take drugs and so on. If it must happen, and it will, then sticking to alcohol and drinking it inside a pub / club with proper security is the best we can realistically do in terms of harm minimisation.

As for the culture, all I can really say is that we've had late night venues for several decades but only this century does there seem to be a real problem. So it's not nightclubs etc per se, it's the overall culture of society. A society in which there are usually no consequences for committing such crimes and where violence is glorified.

 

[Tink]

By cultural, its the attitude towards alcohol in this country.

Then when they travel out of the country, they are in all sorts of trouble overseas, and there they are on the news.

I am actually for the warnings on alcohol, as they did with cigarettes.

Time for the alcohol companies to get abit of heat.

 

[nunthewiser]

Another fine post smurf .... thankyou

where i am and what i do i also have noticed a heck of a rise in "pill " use and other "manufactured illegal substances" . to buy a premixed spirit stubby in a local club is $ 10.50 a stubbie , a beer 7/8 bucks ........ water free ....... pop a pill and boogie the night away cheaply seems the go these days.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Another fine post smurf .... thankyou

where i am and what i do i also have noticed a heck of a rise in "pill " use and other "manufactured illegal substances" . to buy a premixed spirit stubby in a local club is $ 10.50 a stubbie , a beer 7/8 bucks ........ water free ....... pop a pill and boogie the night away cheaply seems the go these days.

What is a carton of Swan or Emu then? Over $50.00

 

[prawn_86]

pop a pill and boogie the night away cheaply seems the go these days.

A lot of people my age do exactly this. $20 - $40 worth for the night, drink only free water = cheap night out.

The only problem is the fact that because these substances are made illegally you can never know exactly what is in them. As Aaronphetamine said, legalise it, tax it, have big pharma make it, everyone wins. But unfortunately 'the masses' have been so indoctrinated with anti drug propaganda that pollies would never get away with it.

Perhaps in a couple generations...

 

[nunthewiser]

What is a carton of Swan or Emu then? Over $50.00

yep, something around that number retail.wholesale for the clubs is a bit different . they making an absolute killing on markup but losing volumes because of the availability and cost factor of popping a pill instead .

 

[Wysiwyg]

I didn`t realise illegal substance use is blatantly widespread.

Don`t anyone think for a minute that these chemicals are all rose coloured glasses stuff. Wik says (and surely it`s all lies, right)

Side effects

The most common adverse side effects reported by users include:

* Psychological
o Paradoxical anxiety and/or paranoia
o Agitation or restlessness
o Impaired attention, focus, and concentration
o Mild cognitive and memory impairment (primarily short-term memory loss)

* Physiological
o Dizziness, lightheadedness, or vertigo
o Blurry vision and/or nystagmus or involuntary and rapid eye movements
o Mydriasis or pupil dilation
o Xerostomia or dry mouth
o Nausea and emesis or vomiting
o Gastrointestinal disturbances such as diarrhea or constipation
o Headache or migraine
o Trismus or jaw clenching and/or bruxism or teeth grinding
o Trembling or muscle tremors
o Urinary retention or ischuria, caused by hyponatremia
o Sexual dysfunction, consisting of erectile dysfunction and anorgasmia or inability to ejaculate
o Anorexia or decreased appetite
o Insomnia or inability to fall to asleep
o Tachycardia or increased heart rate
o Hypertension or increased blood pressure
o Hyperthermia or increased body temperature
o Hyperhidrosis or increased perspiration or sweating
o Hyponatremia or a water-electrolyte imbalance

 

[awg]

A society in which there are usually no consequences for committing such crimes and where violence is glorified.

Agree with what you said, but not sure about the above.

Getting pissed and into a blue was totally commoplace when I was a lad, more than 30 yrs ago.

Lowered inhibition and aggresive young men is SO predictable.

21 is impractical, has been 18 for too long to change now.

What i have found disturbing is the almost universal tendency to encourage persons as young as 14 to drink.

Having 3 teenage sons, I have lost count of the number of times I have asked for them not to be served alcohol.

I am not a wowser by any means, and they do drink anyway (I allow complete freedom at 17 fwiw)

The very same people who were pressing piss on them at 14, if I had said, well why not hand them a spliff as well, would have been horrified...both illegal though!

Or give them a snort of heroin perhaps, a drug, that whilst very addictive, is generally understood by the medical profession to not be harmful to the organs of the body, if administered in a controlled dosage, unlike tobacco or excess alcohol, or most other drugs in common recreational use.

 

[prawn_86]

I didn`t realise illegal substance use is blatantly widespread.

I can guarantee you that 90% of people in my age and social class (upper middle im guessing) have at least tried illegal substances, be it dope or chemicals.

To fire back at you, here are the negative effects of alcohol:

Excessive alcohol use increases the risk of a number of diseases: fatty degeneration of the liver
infection of the liver
liver cirrhosis
sleeping disorders
sexual problems
infection of the esophagus
infection of the stomach,
infection of the pancreas,
premature dementia, varying from a reduction of memory to the serious syndrome of Korsakoff;
cancer of the mouth, throat, larynx, intestines and breasts;
hypertension and heart problems.
Alcohol is also damaging during pregnancy.
Also alcohol takes its toll in traffic.

In the testing of MDMA (active substance in ecstacy) on rats it would take humans the equivilant of 50 - 60 pure pills to overdose (depending on weight) this would be about 5000 milligrams, when a 'dose' is considered to be 100 - 150 mg.

It is the other non active substances in illegally manufactured pills that cause deaths. More people dies riding horses each year than from overdosing on ecstacy, and its intersting to note that Switzerland, Israel and Canada have all moved to human trials of (pure) MDMA to treat depression and post traumatic stress disorder in veterans.

I just think what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. Why can a drug like smokes and grog be legal despite the huge known health risks, when there ARE other much safer drugs that remain illegal. Either ban it all, or legalise it all imo

 

[treeman]

The media is blowing it all out of proportion, alcohol and violence has been around for 100s of years, the more its blown out of proportion the more attractive it gets. Maybye we should all live in rubber houses, work 9 - 5 and have a curfew at 8 and increase taxes ofcourse lol

 

[Smurf1976]

yep, something around that number retail.wholesale for the clubs is a bit different . they making an absolute killing on markup but losing volumes because of the availability and cost factor of popping a pill instead .

I'm not in the industry but I do know that one of the big problems the nightclubs especially have (in terms of running the business) is that:

1. Most customers have pre drinks before going out, thus lowering their consumption whilst on the premises compared to what it would otherwise be. 70% of alcohol is sold at bottleshops.

2. The rest are taking pills and not drinking at all (unless you count water).

It's not like 20 years ago when massive sales across the bar were assured as long as you could get people in the door. Now you get them inside only to find they spend little if anything because they are using pills instead. It's a bit hard running a business when your "customers" are spending their money on something the law prohibits you from selling.

 

[Smurf1976]

Agree with what you said, but not sure about the above.

I was thinking in terms of legal consequences, not physical. Bash someone senseless and at worst the law might give you a slap on the wrist. That's not much of a deterrent...

 

[gav]

In the testing of MDMA (active substance in ecstacy) on rats it would take humans the equivilant of 50 - 60 pure pills to overdose (depending on weight) this would be about 5000 milligrams, when a 'dose' is considered to be 100 - 150 mg.

It is the other non active substances in illegally manufactured pills that cause deaths. More people dies riding horses each year than from overdosing on ecstacy, and its intersting to note that Switzerland, Israel and Canada have all moved to human trials of (pure) MDMA to treat depression and post traumatic stress disorder in veterans.

I just think what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. Why can a drug like smokes and grog be legal despite the huge known health risks, when there ARE other much safer drugs that remain illegal. Either ban it all, or legalise it all imo

Then lets legalise steroids too...

 

[prawn_86]

Then lets legalise steroids too...

Why not. If they are no more harmful than the currently legalised drugs im all for it.

 

[moXJO]

I was thinking in terms of legal consequences, not physical. Bash someone senseless and at worst the law might give you a slap on the wrist. That's not much of a deterrent...

IMO this needs to be addressed. You can bash someone half to death and get off with a slap on the wrist. Increase penalties, and if over .05 double the penalty. Everyone seems to think it's their right to bash people they don't like- or that look at them the wrong way.

 

[beerwm]

If it were me, I'd lower the age limit for consumption within licensed premises to 16 and leave it at 18 for bottleshop sales. It's not pubs and clubs that are the problem once you realise that 70% of alcohol is sold at bottle shops and that in 2009 pre drinks are the norm.

so 16 year-old school kids getting drunk with 40+ adults....

maybe you didnt think that through.

 

[Wysiwyg]

It is the other non active substances in illegally manufactured pills that cause deaths. More people dies riding horses each year than from overdosing on ecstacy, and its intersting to note that Switzerland, Israel and Canada have all moved to human trials of (pure) MDMA to treat depression and post traumatic stress disorder in veterans.

I just think what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. Why can a drug like smokes and grog be legal despite the huge known health risks, when there ARE other much safer drugs that remain illegal. Either ban it all, or legalise it all imo

Sounds similar to the pot debate that went on years ago about legalising it. I don`t see any problem whatsoever with people consuming whatever they want. The problem arises when the lives of others are affected by the user (including alcohol) such as smacking into a power pole. If I`m dealing with someone "coming down" from an ecka trip then I certainly won`t be putting my life in their hands or allowing them to handle my finances.

 

[prawn_86]

I agree with the fact that as long as it doesn't hurt others then people should be able to do what they want.

If I`m dealing with someone "coming down" from an ecka trip then I certainly won`t be putting my life in their hands or allowing them to handle my finances.

Same goes for people with a hangover? Anyway if you have a super fund your probably allowing them to handle your finances already :

EDIT - just a side note with pot, i think one problem is the fact it is hard to measure the active content when it comes from a plant, as each is different. And i bet half those hippies that wanted weed legalised 20 - 30 years ago are now the ones pushing the anti drug propaganda.