Has Kevin Rudd misled parliament?

[Quincy]

Grievance Debate - Queensland and New South Wales Floods

Two weeks ago I brought to the attention of the House the injustice of the Rudd government’s decision to deny Coffs Coast and Clarence Valley residents affected by the March 31 floods one-off Centrelink cash payments. On 31 March more than 400 millimetres of rain fell in 24 hours. In some areas 600 millimetres fell. In one three-hour period 250 millimetres fell in many areas. The Coffs Coast region and the Clarence Valley were declared a national disaster area. Since then the Rudd government has on numerous occasions rejected requests for one-off cash payments of $1,000 per adult and $400 per child, as were provided to flood victims in North Queensland in February and as were later provided to those affected by the flood event on the North Coast in May of this year. Since 31 March the Prime Minister’s office and the Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs have continued to invent new excuses on why Coffs Coast flood victims do not deserve to be treated the same as flood victims of the New South Wales Northern Rivers and Queensland. Firstly, it was because they believed the damage was primarily to public infrastructure. When such advice was shown to be misinformed, a new excuse—that there were only four local government areas affected on 31 March, as compared with 24 council areas affected in May—was put forward. This is simply hollow rhetoric to the thousands of people who were impacted by the March event.

I believe the Prime Minister has also misled the parliament on this matter. On 25 May he told the parliament that those affected by the May floods would receive assistance which included one-off cash payments. The Prime Minister then told the House that he ‘authorised this assistance for people affected by the earlier floods in New South Wales in late March’. Less than 24 hours later the Prime Minister’s office told me that the same one-off cash assistance would not be provided to Coffs Coast residents impacted by the March 31 event.

As stated by Luke Hartsuyker (Cowper, National Party, Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the House) - House debates on 15 Jun 2009

http://www.openaustralia.org/debates/?id=2009-06-15.159.1

 

[Stan 101]

Hiya Stan ... Yep that is exactly what I am saying. I believe the boys in the blue singlets have tapped the credit card a little too hard in my opinion. Ys, something had to be done to keep the country afloat.

If we need to put it into context, when was liberal last in power during a reccession?

Giving $900 x 3 to the populace was probably not the greatest of fiscal policy I have seen. Not one job was created BUT it more than likely helped save a few.

As a layman, I agree. Yes it did save jobs. Let's imagine how many small businesses would be gone now if there had not been a spending spree.

How can I theorise if Liberal got in we would be better off ... I cannot.

It's nice we agree on that.

When he was voted out (and rightly so) the country had NIL debt. Hmmmmmm ?
Libs lowered debt? They paid the credit card off ...NIL/ZERO/ZOT/NUFFIN.

After an amazing run of world prosperity during their tenior. The Libs were willing to take credit for the good times, but simply blamed the Labs after the economic excrement hit the airconditioning just months after Rudd took office.

So, the road from Noosa to Cairns is in a state of disrepair? Who is in political power in QLD ?

It is a national road and the federal Libs should have been proactive in starting national infastructure, not the State. Instead they did nothing. Nothing great was acheived in this regard in Howard's reign. Nothing!

As for State politics, that is a completely different story They deal with state issues. Federal governments deal with national issues. I have no persuasion to either party. It is just clear that 10 years of prospertity were squandered in many regards in the Howard era. Sure they did some good, such as lowering debt, but they did that at cost as I mentioned in the previous post. They look great on paper, but in reality they were caught napping.

Oh, by the way come over to Western Australia where you pay $1.85 for fuel in the backlots (read Broome, similar to Cairns but not as pretentious) that do not have a bitumen road wider than a goat track.

If it's part of the national highway as opposed to state roads, you should be ashamed of your previous government. They have let you down badly.

As for cairns, I've never heard of it as pretentious until your post and certainly had never thought of it as such. I wasn't aware Broome was mountainous and lush green. I've never been been to Broome but assumed it to be flat and dry.


cheers,

 

[Gamblor]

Felicitations to you Rederob and your army of card carrying socialists. You and your ilk have managed to slay the media dragon and keep those unrepresented swill on the other side of the senate self flagellating and navel gazing that will last for several weeks whilst the factions sort themselves out.

If my memory serves me correctly a very similar thing happened with your mob around 2001 with Kim Beazly who lost the election only to be replaced by Simon Crean who steered the good ship "Credit Card" straight onto the rocks. Roll on late 2003 when a media hatchet job landed the ever popular Mark Latham to the prize seat of Union Leader. After a particulary nasty and spectacular meltdown in the heat of battle he was replaced by Kim Beazley Mk 2 on 28 January 2005. The media savvy Kevin Michael Rudd performed the best Brutus act in Caucus and managed to backstab his way to victory on the 4th December 2006. To Mr. Rudd's credit he has managed to deflect any mudslinging thus far and retains the mantle of "Supreme Ruler" to this day.

This is the nature of politics. Cyclic and national mood swings are par for the course. It won't be long before the good citizens of Banana Republic Land will awake form their sleepy little coma and once again toddle off to the polling booths only to find themselves 200 billion dollars in debt. OUCH !

Hope I got the names correct and with just the right amount of bias Macquack !

I have one question for you - if the Liberals were in office would we have a deficit now?

 

[Calliope]

Naturally we all worry about the state of the roads Stanley, but what does it have to do with Rudd and Swan misleading parliament? :dunno:

 

[Stan 101]

Naturally we all worry about the state of the roads Stanley, but what does it have to do with Rudd and Swan misleading parliament? :dunno:

I have no idea who stanley is, but I'll field this anyway.

It has little to do with Turnbull's frivolous accusations about Rudd's dishonesty in this affair. Much like the childish diatribes about our PM's apparent sexual preference that has been going on unabated for the last few pages of this thread. I'm sure you were about to post something about the irrelevance of those posts straight after the above post, though.


cheers,

 

[trainspotter]

Gamblor .. read my response to Stan 101 on this deficit account. I do not have a crystal ball nor will I theorise what might have happened to the National Debt if Libs remained in power.

And now for Stan 101:

1) Did I mention recession? Nup. 200 billion in debt is what I said. Liberal governments have weathered economic downturns previously but nothing that is of the voracity we are experiencing now. How would they react? Dunno ... not a policy adviser on this subject.

2) Spending spree? What spending spree? I vaguely remember that an economic model showed the majority of it was saved by the recipients.

3) Agreed.

4) Going from memory here as no Google Rummage allowed. Didn't Kevin Rudd blame the Liberal government for this? Due to their lack of policy on the subject matter? When Howard and Co received the reins of power the World economy was not exactly booming. I reckon they "managed" to pay off the debt left from Labor as well as coping with the upturn in world fiscal policy.

5) Would it not be the State Government that is required to go cap in hand and plead for Federal money? Most of the infrastructure spending went into major cities. Hmmmm more people more votes I guess.

6a) Refer to quote above for this answer. nPerth received massive road building programmes. Tunnels, highways, flyovers, train tracks, ad infinitum.

6b) Wow ... you need to get out more. Broome has a very similar climate and topography. What I meant by pretentious is that it is not full of it's own importance. Nothing to do with climate. Part of the charm is it does not have a 4 lane highway leading to its outer limits.

 

[trainspotter]

I agree with you Stan 101 ... we should not cast aspersions on Kevin Michael Rudd's sexuality. It is a very low form of wit and puerile at best. But like a good trainsmash you just can't look away when it has happened.

 

[rederob]

Naturally we all worry about the state of the roads Stanley, but what does it have to do with Rudd and Swan misleading parliament? :dunno:

I do agree.
There is no evidence that Rudd or Swan misled Parliament.
There is evidence that Turnbull is not being honest with the public, and accordingly they have marked him down. Actually, his popularity fell by a record amount between polls, showing the dissatisfaction he enjoys.
I hear there is a good doctor now available to help take away his pain.

 

[Calliope]

It has little to do with Turnbull's frivolous accusations about Rudd's dishonesty in this affair. Much like the childish diatribes about our PM's apparent sexual preference that has been going on unabated for the last few pages of this thread. I'm sure you were about to post something about the irrelevance of those posts straight.

I already have, if you care to look back. You said apparent sexual preferences. You probably notice things that I don't.

But you are right. His apparent preferences have more to do with his popularity in the polls rather than hoodwinking Parliament.

 

[Mr J]

Giving $900 x 3 to the populace was probably not the greatest of fiscal policy I have seen.

It's great for me, as I get to spend it where I deem appropriate, instead of half of it being lost in bureaucratic inefficiency. Of course, at some point that $900 will be pinched from my pocket.

 

[Calliope]

I do agree.
There is no evidence that Rudd or Swan misled Parliament.
There is evidence that Turnbull is not being honest with the public, and accordingly they have marked him down. Actually, his popularity fell by a record amount between polls, showing the dissatisfaction he enjoys.
I hear there is a good doctor now available to help take away his pain.

Popularity in the polls has nothing to do with character. Mahmoud Ahmadinejab has a popularity rating as high as Rudd's (it you believe the polls). This gives him the authority to destroy the opposition with more direct methods than Rudd is using.

Australian's seem to prefer the Machiavellian Rudd to the nerdy Rudd.

 

[Timmy]

Sacha's girlfriend is gorgeous.

V. hot Aussie chick.

 

[trainspotter]

You betcha they have. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be a .... ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8

Guilty of trying to help one if his constituents. I think the allegation goes along the lines of:- John Grant Motors were funded by GE Finance who pulled the rug on his floorplan. He approached his local MP Mr Bernie Ripoll, who then approached Wayne Swan. Mr Swan receives a phone call from Mr Grant and refers him to a DLO. Mr Grant's case was then handled personally by staffers in Mr Swan's office and by senior Treasury officials; Mr Swan was kept informed of the progress of the case, including via his home fax; and Treasury head Dr Ken Henry was also kept in the email loop as to how Mr Grant's application was being treated. Senior Treasury official Godwin Grech said he recalled an email from Mr Rudd's office saying Mr Grant's case should receive his attention. Mr Grech heads OzCar, the Government's financing arm to which Mr Grant applied for help. Ford Credit applies for help from OzCar. Ford Credit allegedly advised by Treasury Official Andrew Thomas their application would receive favour if they considered taking on John Grant Motor's floorplan. GE continues to fund Mr Grant. No harm no foul.

Email and allegations leaked to Liberal camp via News Limited journalist Steve Lewis. Malcolm Turnbull raises questions of impropriety in the Senate. All hell breaks loose. Labor vehemently denies any knowledge of goings on at first. Under intense scrutiny from Senate Committe Inquiry admittance of emails and faxes. Vehicle being purchased by Wayne Swan from John Grant Motors thrown in the mix.

Kevin Rudd attacks Malcolm Turnbull and questions email "origins". Malcolm Turnbull said he had no copy of the email and had been relying Mr Lewis's reports. He denied anyone in the Opposition had a role in writing the email. AFP called in. Parliament goes into winter recess for 7 weeks and the whole bunfight dies with a pathetic whimper. Except for in here.

Latest poll stipulates that the Libs have lost ground and Mr Turnbull is on thin ice with factional support waning. Labor loses ground in same poll but not as newsworthy. Nationals come out and declare now is not the time to go weak at the knees.

Joe Hockey can be heard sharpening his knives in the corridors of power.

 

[kincella]

another forum says there is a group GROMRP...stands for.... get rid of malcom recall peter....working fast and furious in the background atm
so its not hockey or abbott...its peter they want....that will turn everything around...

 

[MrBurns]

Felicitations to you Rederob and your army of card carrying socialists. You and your ilk have managed to slay the media dragon and keep those unrepresented swill on the other side of the senate self flagellating and navel gazing that will last for several weeks whilst the factions sort themselves out.

If my memory serves me correctly a very similar thing happened with your mob around 2001 with Kim Beazly who lost the election only to be replaced by Simon Crean who steered the good ship "Credit Card" straight onto the rocks. Roll on late 2003 when a media hatchet job landed the ever popular Mark Latham to the prize seat of Union Leader. After a particulary nasty and spectacular meltdown in the heat of battle he was replaced by Kim Beazley Mk 2 on 28 January 2005. The media savvy Kevin Michael Rudd performed the best Brutus act in Caucus and managed to backstab his way to victory on the 4th December 2006. To Mr. Rudd's credit he has managed to deflect any mudslinging thus far and retains the mantle of "Supreme Ruler" to this day.

This is the nature of politics. Cyclic and national mood swings are par for the course. It won't be long before the good citizens of Banana Republic Land will awake form their sleepy little coma and once again toddle off to the polling booths only to find themselves 200 billion dollars in debt. OUCH !

Hope I got the names correct and with just the right amount of bias Macquack !

Brilliant

 

[rederob]

Latest poll stipulates that the Libs have lost ground and Mr Turnbull is on thin ice with factional support waning. Labor loses ground in same poll but not as newsworthy. Nationals come out and declare now is not the time to go weak at the knees.

I guess Coorey has more brains than a trainspotter:

Turnbull hammered by voters
Phillip Coorey Chief Political Correspondent
June 29, 2009

MALCOLM TURNBULL'S darkest hour as Opposition Leader is upon him with a new poll showing his standing has been dealt a hammer blow by the OzCar affair.

The latest Herald/Nielsen poll also shows that despite Peter Costello announcing he is quitting politics, the former treasurer remains by far the most preferred Liberal leader, well ahead of Mr Turnbull and Joe Hockey, who are in a statistical dead heat for second place.

The nationwide poll of 1400 voters was taken from Thursday night to Saturday. This was in the wake of the OzCar affair, in which Opposition attempts to accuse Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan of doing favours for a car dealer friend backfired when an email linking Mr Rudd to the affair proved to be a fake.

The monthly poll shows Mr Turnbull's personal approval rating slumped 11 percentage points to 32 per cent, while his disapproval rating soared 13 points to 60 per cent.

"Mr Turnbull now has an approval rating similar to that of Brendan Nelson on his way out and a disapproval rating similar to that of Simon Crean on the way out," said the Nielsen pollster John Stirton.

Support for the Coalition also nosedived. Labor led on a two-party preferred basis by 58 per cent to 42 per cent, up 5 points in a month.
The Coalition's primary vote slumped six points, to 37 per cent, while Labor's edged up 2 points, to 46 per cent.
More than half the voters surveyed - 53 per cent - had a less favourable opinion of Mr Turnbull after the OzCar episode.

 

[trainspotter]

another forum says there is a group GROMRP...stands for.... get rid of malcom recall peter....working fast and furious in the background atm
so its not hockey or abbott...its peter they want....that will turn everything around...

ROFL at the suggestion of Costello being the Messiah for the Libs. Many Australians do not regard Costello as a serious person much less a serious leader. Leaders do not smirk. Costello's smirk rouses popular antagonism and is widely recognised as a public display of narcissism. A white elephant at best. Tony Abbott is not ready to lead but makes for a fantastic straight man. But then again Abbott and Costello does have a nice ring to it?

 

[awg]

have'nt read this thread

If anyone was wondering how come the Federal Police knew the email was a "fake" so fast?

Labor knows Treasury has been leaking badly, so they would have used the resources of the Public Service and Fed Pols to track this down, as it is almost always either illegal or against public service regulations to "leak" any material.

Given the amount of time Godwin Grech was backgrounding the Libs, he would have been under suspicion for sure from his collegues, as the PS is a hotbed of intrigue.

The way they bust moles is to set them up, too easy, send a juicy email to to the target and see if it emerges.

I reckon Godwin was caught right out.

I would suspect they have other evidence of his activities

He will be dismissed

 

[Calliope]

have'nt read this thread

If anyone was wondering how come the Federal Police knew the email was a "fake" so fast?

Labor knows Treasury has been leaking badly, so they would have used the resources of the Public Service and Fed Pols to track this down, as it is almost always either illegal or against public service regulations to "leak" any material.

Given the amount of time Godwin Grech was backgrounding the Libs, he would have been under suspicion for sure from his collegues, as the PS is a hotbed of intrigue.

The way they bust moles is to set them up, too easy, send a juicy email to to the target and see if it emerges.

I reckon Godwin was caught right out.

I would suspect they have other evidence of his activities

He will be dismissed

You got that right. It was a well crafted sting. The young men Rudd surrounds himself with have plenty of talent.

 

[trainspotter]

I guess Coorey has more brains than a trainspotter:

Goodness me rederob you are in fine form today !! Phillip Coorey is merely reporting on the Herald/Nielsen poll. Does this take brains? What about the Morgan/Galaxy/Newspoll polls? I am sure they will all say that Malcolm Turnbull has lost traction and credibility. That is a gimme. Brains ... what brains comrade?