Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[communique]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Kennas i dont know how you can allow this childish retoric to go on, i havent been reading for a few days, and i cant believe that its gone to the levels of absolute rubbish, which has no bearing upon which the forum was opened for, in my view these people who have hijacked the forum for their own personel reasons are destroying the credibility of the site , its either a group of silly old men and women, or the other end of the scale, a few smart Ar-- young people, who are determined to shut this down, the lot of you if you have nothing to talk about (the PIF? )then find some other avenue for your rubbish, (probably play school) flatback

There is an answer to this. A new thread called
WC PIF ONLY USEFUL INFORMATION POSTS

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped if you believe the statement that you just made is true( the days of easy cash and minimal disclosure are over ) i tell you what, i have three geese in my yard that lay, gold silver and diamond eggs, which one do you want to buy. as long as there are corporate lawyers,( who will bend every law to suite their own whims) and an asic body that doesnt have the kahoonas to use the power that has been bestowed on them , and there are a group of people (us ) who believe that there are gov agencys to look after us, and unfortunately the white shoe brigade that runs the financial world on the gold coast is allowed to operate as they do ,IT WILL HAPPEN UNTIL I SUCK IN MY LAST BREATH, i liken this form of investment to investing my money into the poker machines,you may say, well you were caught too you know ,and you are right, but because of my age and my health i can guarantee, it will not be physicaly possible for me to ever get caught again, and unfortunately its my wife and her well being that concerns me more than anything.
i have put many threads on this forum trying to instill some sense and order to the retoric that has materialised but to no avail, constantly we hear from the same people cutting and pasteing exerps from papers etc etc, WHY when everything is out of our control. i wont say have a good day , have a bad day like i have to suffer.

Flatback, how are you, I hope this finds you well. I have been looking back at some of your posts, since I can't ever really remember much of what you have ever added here. I have noticed that you like to bag the likes of Seamisty, who has been an incredible wealth of knowledge and comfort to many, yet no real information worth noting, just posts like the one I have randomly selected.

Sir, the reason why there has been a bit of banter, granted not "directly" linked to new PIF info, as there hasn't been much of late, is that we are all on edge waiting and we were having a bit of FUN OMG dare to have a bit of fun in the sad times a lot of us are going through, here on the internet.

Anyway FB, since you love to use a certain word as this old post of yours suggests, I feel I must be informative (as that is what you like us to be). The word is spelt R-H-E-T-O-R-I-C. You're welcome

I hope you have all had a wonderful day and wish you all a peaceful night's sleep. My regards to you all.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Members

I am interested to know more about;

1. Legal Action on 14 November.

2. Status of the legal proceedings before the Supreme Court of Queensland.

Is there anything new to report and is somebody going to attend the court case in Sydney and report back to the forum etc.

Regards

Splitpin

 

[demodocus]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

An examination of the PIN component of the NSX site provides some interesting insights.

A couple of days ago there were 2 sellers at +/-$0.30 totalling 200,000 shares.

Today there are over 400,000 shares on offer at less than $0.30 through 4 sellers the lowest being 100,000 shares available at $0.20.

There have been no trades. However, these offers represent 4 individual investors who placed $400,000 into the care of MFS who subsequently reduced their value (under the examination of WC) to $0.45 or $180,000.

Today there have been no buyers at the still further reduced price of $0.20 or a TOTAL value of $80,000. So much for WC's expertise in valuation.

Our Great Leader's good friends (and debtor to the PIF) Mr Raptis's companies appear to be on the road to collapse. I presume we'll wait until they do collapse before our Great Leader thinks about doing something about investors funds.

There has been no word from our Great Leader regarding the magnetic 'vote for me' buy back at $0.45 or the now delayed disbursement of $0.03c/share by Christmas.

Somebody on the CIY Forum thought that Wellington Capital should be considered as an alternate RE for the foundering City Pacific FMF. The result, to say the least, was utter outrage on line. WC has managed to bring its (and our Great Leader's) credibility to almost zero by its performance with the Wellington PIF.

I hold over 100,000 shares in PIN and consider that if I can rescue more than $15,000 (including the nebulous distributions) I'll be doing well.

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The NSX is an extremely depressing sight. Offers to sell just going lower and lower with original investments of $100,000's being flushed away.

It's shocking and depressing. These people are obviously either extremely desperate and in need of something, or else they are of the opinion that if they stick around too long they will get nothing.

Either way, it shows very little confidence in a 3c/unit payment next month.
It's truely stomach wrenching.

Have also just been informed by someone that had received an email from WC, that the hardship cases that were paid out, totalled $51,427.80 in all. That is 114,284 units at .45c.

What a pathetic effort that really goes to show just how unconcerned they were for the struggling unit holders. This amount of money would look insignificant in comparison to the huge PR bill that WC would have accumulated.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It's certainly not a pretty picture at the moment. Yesterday I spoke to somebody on the hotline - they're always pleasant enough. But I soon realised that I was being given no fresh information on anything. There was no news on the much-needed distribution, just an assurance that WC were leaving no stone unturned to get money (well, that's their number 1 task, I hope). We are continually facing a headwind. It really is time for JH to inform us frankly what is going on. I understand that there are legal limitations in this respect, but better communication from the top (yes, the Board too) is essential and urgent. By not doing so, WC's image also loses out in the end.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It's certainly not a pretty picture at the moment. . I understand that there are legal limitations in this respect, but better communication from the top (yes, the Board too) is essential and urgent. By not doing so, WC's image also loses out in the end.

Dear Selciper

I am a member who was due some redemptions last January.

One could assume that there was a massive payout due.

I assume that that if the upcoming court case in Sydney is against WC, that means all redemptions due in January become due for payment at 100% from PIF.

This means for the remaining members a further massive reduction in fund valuation per unit.

Maybe other members may comment on this assumption.

Regards

Splitpin

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

...
Have also just been informed by someone that had received an email from WC, that the hardship cases that were paid out, totalled $51,427.80 in all. That is 114,284 units at .45c.

What a pathetic effort that really goes to show just how unconcerned they were for the struggling unit holders. This amount of money would look insignificant in comparison to the huge PR bill that WC would have accumulated.

Those hardship figures are shocking. JH said on the 22 Aug 2008 that WC had a meeting on the 21 Aug to review the hardship cases and that there were just over 160 cases which represented about 15 mill units or 2% of the fund. I was wondering if the Sept vote would impact on the hardship cases being paid and in particular if the buy back going ahead would impact on the hardship cases. JH response was that the hardship cases would be paid before the vote. Now WC are saying they only paid 0.01 percent of the fund to hardship. WC are also saying that now that the constitution has been modified removing redemption clauses that no more hardship cases can be paid - they now advise unit holders sell on the NSX.

It's interesting how WC said the NSX would be a way of letting unit holders in hardship exit the fund but in fact unit holders who meet hardship grounds would have been better off if the fund was not listed so they could apply to ASIC under the new measure announced on 31 Oct 2008 - 08-214 ASIC facilitates withdrawals from frozen funds. This allows hardship cases approved by ASIC to withdraw at least 50% of their investment.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning all, For those of you needing to keep Centrelink informed for pension adjustments, a trade of 50,000 units just went through at 20cents per unit. Seamisty

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

50000 at 20c! Of course this is a very difficult time to trade shares, but the 20c price is hardly a vote of confidence in WC's strategies. The seller might simply be in desperate need of $10k, but the much-touted 45c price seems a long way from reality.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There is an answer to this. A new thread called
WC PIF ONLY USEFUL INFORMATION POSTS

Any threads to do with this topic will be merged into one. We have had this discussion before about too much moderation time being taken up, so if things continue to escalate the thread will simply be closed temporarily as it was last time.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Some background info for all sniffer dogs and conspiracy theorists to disect.::: Paul Manka and Michael Hiscock were both partners and directors of Avenue Capital management while at the same time were both directors of MFS at the same time the redemption request for $16.254 million was lodged. The following is part of a media article dated Tuesday, 1 April 2008

Adam Schwab writes::::::One financial planning dealer group with links to MFS/Octavier is Avenue Capital Management. Avenue director Michael Hiscock recently resigned from MFS/Octavier board, and MFS/Octavier deputy chairman, Paul Manka, is also a director of Avenue.

Avenue clients have about $51 million directly or indirectly invested in the MFS Premium Income fund – a small proportion of total $1.4 billion under advice.


Despite board connections, Avenue Director Simon Clifford told the Weekend AFR on Friday that "MFS has nothing to do with us ... there is no link between MFS and ACM."

There are two points that should be corrected. First, despite Avenue’s claims, there do appear to be several key links between Avenue and MFS Premium Income Fund. And it appears that those links may have led to clients of Avenue investing a greater proportion of their savings in MFS PIF than if they'd been with a non-conflicted financial planner.

Avenue director Michael Hiscock was, until last week, a director of MFS. Hiscock was also a director of MFS Living and Leisure and was chairman of MFS Diversified. MFS PIF invested unitholders’ funds in MFS Living and Leisure and MFS Diversified (MFS Living and Leisure owes MFS PIF $67 million, due in May, although Lonsec claims repayment of the sum is in "significant doubt"). Even though Hiscock wasn’t a director of PIF itself, he was a director of the responsible entity of PIF (MFS itself) and chairman of a fund which owes PIF $67 million.

Similarly, MFS chairman-designate, Paul Manka, showed that he can be as conflicted as his fellow board member, simultaneously serving as an Avenue financial planner while also being a director of MFS Diversified, MFS Living and Leisure and MFS itself.

Further, the claim that Avenue’s investment of $51 million (out of what is actually $1.7 billion funds-under-management) in MFS PIF is a "small proportion" of funds under advice seems somewhat hopeful. Avenue director, Simon Clifford, told Crikey that any advice provided to clients to invest in MFS PIF came after the fund was recommended by research house Lonsec and that "everything was done by the book".

However, the fact remains that of the $754 million raised by MFS Premium Income Fund, $51 million came from clients of Avenue Capital Management. Avenue itself confirmed that across both PIF Wholesale and Retail funds it was the third largest investor in the funds despite it being far smaller than the likes of AXA’s Hillross (with FUM of more than $5 billion) or Count Financial (FUM of $12 billion).

Clifford also noted that PIF wasn’t the major avenue for its clients, with Avenue investing greater amounts in Macquarie Cash Management Trust (more than $120 million) and Perpetual Premium Income Fund. However, Avenue only started funneling clients' funds into PIF in early 2005 after Lonsec started recommending the fund.

By contrast, Avenue would presumably have been recommending clients invest in Macquarie and Perpetual since 2000. While not confirmed by Avenue, based on the numbers, it would appear that in the last three years, PIF may have been the largest recipient of Avenue clients’ funds. :::::::::: It seems that there was a component of those clients that had a 24 hour redemption clause. I am not familiar with insider information laws or pecuinary interest between companies, but it does seem that there is something highly suspect going on with this claim. Also, why were only some wholesale clients offered the 24 hour clause and not all. Where is ASIC now? Or is this not a major concern to the majority that had them on speed dial previously? The legal action is before the Court today, I will be very interested in the outcome. Seamisty

 

[demodocus]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

OGL (Our Great Leader) has told the NSX conference today that the $9.5m debt to RBOS will be cleared by December and that "this will enable us to resume distributions to unit holders".

I look forward to this coming to pass.

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

OGL (Our Great Leader) has told the NSX conference today that the $9.5m debt to RBOS will be cleared by December and that "this will enable us to resume distributions to unit holders".

I look forward to this coming to pass.

Wasn't RBOS paid out and a remaining $20m was refinanced with another financier (not named) and we were being charged a 20% interest rate, of which we have brought it down to a $9.5m outstanding amount?

This was due to be paid by Oct, then Nov, but due to the current crisis borrowers had a problem in paying out / refinancing their existing PIF loans and that's why we weren't paid and the $9.5m loan still remains.

Let's hope December is the 'lucky' month!

Also hope WC has got some damning 'insider' trading activity evidence to enable the redemption case with HISSSSSSCOCK and WMANKA to be thrown out, or else that will no doubt mean we will be under a huge cloud to receive timely qtrly distributions for 2009.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

demodocus -
Your information is usually very good. so what's the source of your latest news about the $9.5m? Is it on a website somewhere?

 

[Wolfgang]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

demodocus -
Your information is usually very good. so what's the source of your latest news about the $9.5m? Is it on a website somewhere?

Hi selciper maybe the source is from
http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/Article/Octaviar-set-to-clear-debts/430766.aspx

you will find it interesting
Wolfgang

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Friday 14 November 2008
Octaviar set to clear debts
by John Wilkinson

Octaviar, the former MFS Premium Income Fund, could be paying distributions before Christmas this year, its fund manager believes.

Wellington Capital managing director Jenny Hutson said the mortgage fund’s debts should be finally cleared by December.

“Today, the fund has debts of $9.5 million and we hope to repay this shortly,” she told the National Stock Exchange (NSX) conference in Melbourne.

“This will enable us to resume distributions to unit holders.”

Octaviar ran into trouble earlier this year and redemptions were frozen.

It had $755 million of capital in mortgages, but was laden with $100 million of debt.

Hutson said the fund’s bankers, The Royal Bank of Scotland, wanted the debt repaid immediately.

When Wellington was invited to become the responsible entity of Octaviar there were two options, a listing or liquidation.

“What we had to do was reduce debt through asset sales,” she said.

“But redemptions had to remain frozen if the fund was to continue, otherwise we wouldn’t realise the true value of the assets.”

The proposal was to list the fund on the NSX, with unit holders becoming shareholders.

“We had to change the fund to create liquidity and if we had wound the fund up, investors would only have got a third of their investments back,” she said.

“So we asked then to forego the right of redemption and in three to five years we will liquidate the assets at a better price.”

There are 32 assets in the fund and Hutson said her company has ruled out foreclosures on the mortgagees if they get into trouble.

“If a mortgagee gets into trouble, we will try and work with them as a joint venture partner to trade out of the problem,” she said.

“Our aim is to get the asset backing of the fund back to $1 a share.”

Hutson said the listing has given the fund transparency while protecting the privacy of the mortgagees.

“The listing has also created a platform for the future to protect the investor’s interests.”

------------------------------------
Source: http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/Article/Octaviar-set-to-clear-debts/430766.aspx

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi, Wolfgang - Thanks for the Money Managementt link. At least it shows a glimmer of hope!

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Friday 14 November 2008
Octaviar set to clear debts
by John Wilkinson

Wellington Capital managing director Jenny Hutson said the mortgage fund’s debts should be finally cleared by December.
“Today, the fund has debts of $9.5 million and we hope to repay this shortly,” she told the National Stock Exchange (NSX) conference in Melbourne.
“This will enable us to resume distributions to unit holders.”

Hang on, WC told us that we couldn't be paid the October distribution because settlement on 3 outstanding loans had not occurred.
Who is this refinancing loan with. As Unit Holders we are entitled to know as it is our money that is being used to repay it. What are the terms and conditions of the loan - could it be that WC has breached a condition of the loan enabling the lender to prevent WC from distributing any funds until they are repaid ? (sound familiar !). We are entitled to know the facts about this loan - what are the terms and who is it with (at 20% interest maybe Cash Converters)

When Wellington was invited to become the responsible entity of Octaviar there were two options, a listing or liquidation.
Who invited Wellington to become RE and why didn't unit holders get any information about it.

“But redemptions had to remain frozen if the fund was to continue, otherwise we wouldn’t realise the true value of the assets.”
This is not true, redemptions had to remain frozen until the RBOS loan was repaid - condition of loan empowering RBOS to appoint a receiver if they chose to. (wish they had of).

“We had to change the fund to create liquidity and if we had wound the fund up, investors would only have got a third of their investments back,” she said.
Hang on, where's the liquidity ? And weren't we told that if the unit holders did not vote to list the Fund then WC would liquidate it and we would only get 14c / $1 unit ?

“So we asked then to forego the right of redemption and in three to five years we will liquidate the assets at a better price.”
HANG ON, unit holders weren't told anything about liquidating assets, we were told that the full $1 value would be restored ! If liquidating the assets over 3 to 5 years was the plan, why did we have to list the fund ?
“Our aim is to get the asset backing of the fund back to $1 a share.”
Ohhhh,.....

Hutson said the listing has given the fund transparency while protecting the privacy of the mortgagees.
"transparency" - does that means unit holders have to hunt around the internet to try and get any kind information on what's happening with their investments.

“The listing has also created a platform for the future to protect the investor’s interests.”
How are we protected when market value has now dropped to 20c / unit ?------------------------------------
Source: http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/Article/Octaviar-set-to-clear-debts/430766.aspx

Does this article represent hope ? Represents proof of misleading information if you ask me.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Does this article represent hope ? Represents proof of misleading information if you ask me.

Burnt would you please clarify who edited the article posted by Juan Mortyme? Seamisty