Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well my 'inside info' was hot of the hotline this morning!! :grinskingSeamisty

Dear Seamisty,
or after seeing the shining crown on your head, should I say your highness, would you please share with us humble meagre poor investors, the phone number to this Preferred Unit Holder Hotline. Many meagre poor investors do not get their calls or emails answered. Does JH only have time for you ?

I know she has made comment to other Preferred Unit Holders that she is annoyed at the pestering questions from unit holders and the amount of her time it takes up. After all, who do these people think they are ? Her time is valuable (about $1200 / hour).

Besides JH is a very busy person, she's got to find the time to write a speech to make at the upcoming NSX conference, it's very important. Wonder what the title will be ?.................I know "How to Gain Control of a Managed Fund and Have Your Way With It". Yeah.....that's sexy. She'll also have to find the time to give the old red leathers a spit & polish............yeah sexy (in a dominatrix kind of way).

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt, I was being facesious!!!!! The only time I have ever spoken to JH was when I made an appointment to see her(and found her very humble and down to earth) The rest of the time, I get in the queue the same as any other investor. I post information I receive on here as I consider it may be of use to others and may help to eliminate the need for others to 'get in the queue'. I know that there are many who appreciate the few of us that do this. We have lost a lot of valuable contributors on this thread due to the constant negativity and WC downramping. How do I know? Because I have contact with a lot of these unit holders outside of the forum. Regards, Seamisty

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt, I was being facesious!!!!! The only time I have ever spoken to JH was when I made an appointment to see her(and found her very humble and down to earth) The rest of the time, I get in the queue the same as any other investor. I post information I receive on here as I consider it may be of use to others and may help to eliminate the need for others to 'get in the queue'. I know that there are many who appreciate the few of us that do this. We have lost a lot of valuable contributors on this thread due to the constant negativity and WC downramping. How do I know? Because I have contact with a lot of these unit holders outside of the forum. Regards, Seamisty

Dear Seamisty

With 326 posts I think we all have had enough of the waffle.

Please go fishing for a month and give genuine forum contributors a go without a waffle response.

Regards

Splitpin

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty

How could any of us be astute with our investments dropping from $1-00 to $-10 on offer.

I trust big brother Kev 747 acts to put stability back into all of this.

Regards


Splitpin

Well after the bloodbath anticipated on the Dow tonight, I might have to prune my offer to 12cents!!! I hope Krudd has had his 'brown undies' drycleaned because there is going to be more than one type of 'fallout' as a consequence to his actions!!!! Seamisty

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Seamisty

With 326 posts I think we all have had enough of the waffle.

Please go fishing for a month and give genuine forum contributors a go without a waffle response.

Regards

Splitpin

Ok, so I take it that if you are not are PIFI POSTER you are a WAFFLER? Man are you up yourself LOL!!!

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Ok, so I take it that if you are not are PIFI POSTER you are a WAFFLER? Man are you up yourself LOL!!!

Seamistry

You and many others know my indentity.

All my forum contributions are my own personal opinions and have never been any official PIFI statements, unless requested to present to the forum.

Please go fishing and relax.

Regards


Splitpin

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Seamisty

With 326 posts I think we all have had enough of the waffle.

Please go fishing for a month and give genuine forum contributors a go without a waffle response.

Regards

Splitpin

Ok, so I take it that if you are not are PIFI POSTER you are a WAFFLER? Man are you up yourself LOL!!!

Eh guys! Cool it! Personal insults will not get us anywhere.
Let's keep our heads and try to argue facts not opinions; nor make outlandish statements. So far, there is little to get excited about. JH won the day and WC is the confirmed RE with a mandate to deliver value over the longterm. Sniping at unit prices on the NSX is futile and arguments about whether we will get 1.5 cents this Friday or nothing, are useless. It's early days. Give JH a chance. Holy moly, she's got a lot on her plate!

Rance

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Sorry to intrude. I know you guys are stressed.

Aussie Stock Forums is the premier site for the Aussie Investor.

Lets not let the bastards get us down


Please vote for Aussie Stock Forums at Compareshares
Don't forget to vote everyone... it only takes a few seconds and ASF deserves our support!

Here's the link again: http://www.thebull.com.au/the_stockies/forums.html

gg

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Seamisty

With 326 posts I think we all have had enough of the waffle.

Please go fishing for a month and give genuine forum contributors a go without a waffle response.

Regards

Splitpin

A bit more waffle for you Splitpin (and only to pacify some of my loyal supporters, oops, just let me re arrange my crown)it is deemed that I am way behind you with my posts but I am in front re postage costs as 3,500 letter post outs are a tad more expensive than posts on here. I have been fishing, but, I get more bites on here!! Seamisty

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A bit more waffle for you Splitpin (and only to pacify some of my loyal supporters, oops, just let me re arrange my crown)it is deemed that I am way behind you with my posts but I am in front re postage costs as 3,500 letter post outs are a tad more expensive than posts on here. I have been fishing, but, I get more bites on here!! Seamisty

Seamisty

There are little fish left in the sea as we all know.

And not much future for fisher people.

Regards

Splitpin

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty

There are little fish left in the sea as we all know.

And not much future for fisher people.

Regards

Splitpin

Do some more research before you make unqualified statements Splitpin. Our fishery is actually in better shape now than previously due to good management and industry regulation!!! You are out of your depth here. We, along with advice from industry, had self imposed cutbacks via net reduction and mesh size along with day fishing restrictions. Introducing this debate on the forum does nothing for your integrity. Also being diversified and not having all of ones 'nets' in the same ocean lessens the risk. I will refresh you with an old saying, (a bit more 'waffle') ' there is more than one fish in the sea', but I might have already caught the biggest herring on here!!! Goodnight, Seamisty

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Do some more research before you make unqualified statements Splitpin. Our fishery is actually in better shape now than previously due to good management and industry regulation!!! You are out of your depth here. We, along with advice from industry, had self imposed cutbacks via net reduction and mesh size along with day fishing restrictions. Introducing this debate on the forum does nothing for your integrity. Also being diversified and not having all of ones 'nets' in the same ocean lessens the risk. I will refresh you with an old saying, (a bit more 'waffle') ' there is more than one fish in the sea', but I might have already caught the biggest herring on here!!! Goodnight, Seamisty

Seamisty

Please apply all these management applications as noted above to your fund manager and maybe we can see some great results.

Anyhow I don't accept your fishing response - that is a separete debate please nominate a suitable forum.

Regards


Splitpin

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Article in today's Australian

---------------------------------------
Marketed mortgage funds carry unseen risk


by Anthony Klan and Sara Rich | October 25, 2008

ABOUT 180,000 Australians now hold a combined $22 billion of funds frozen in the mortgage trust sector.

And in the current turmoil many investors are likely to begin heavily scrutinising where they parked their money during the good times.

What most don't know -- and what mortgage funds are not eager to advertise -- is that many of those funds now hitting the wall have their roots in the solicitors mortgage scandal of the late 1990s.

Many of the smaller mortgage funds -- those holding tens or hundreds of millions of funds rather than billions -- were created by small law firms seeking to make a buck by borrowing funds from clients and on-lending them at a higher rate.

Most of the funds were on-lent to property developers seeking cheap debt.

The practice ballooned during the 1990s but in the second half of the decade poor lending decisions -- and under-regulation -- meant many collapsed, with investors owed close to $1 billion.

Reacting to the failures, and media scrutiny, corporate watchdog the Australian Securities and Investments Commission required the solicitors -- largely unregulated -- in 1999 to become managed investment schemes if they were investing clients' money.

The result is that many of those former small law firms are now the major fund managers steering billions of dollars of investors' funds in the stormy market.

The Government's guarantee on certain bank and building society deposits has dramatically increased the pressure on the sector, with spooked investors bolting for the exit doors.

Yesterday the $1.5 billion MacarthurCook Mortgage Fund, managed by listed property group MacarthurCook, and the $70 million St George-managed Advance Mortgage Fund became the latest funds to freeze redemptions.

But the problems facing the sector are not new.

Several mortgages collapsed or were frozen many months before the Government's October 12 decision to guarantee deposits.

Poor lending by some funds, exacerbated by the downturn in property construction, has meant many funds have come under pressure.

In January the MFS Premium Income Fund froze the funds of 10,000 investors, worth a combined $770 million.

Two months later fellow Queensland-based borrower City Pacific suspended withdrawals from its $1 billion First Mortgage Fund.

Then, in July, property giant Mirvac -- which had boasted returns of up to 9.5 per cent per annum -- was forced to freeze more than $240 million of funds belonging to hundreds of ordinary investors.

The failed multi-billion MFS investment empire was one of those mortgage funds born in the fallout of the solicitors mortgage scandal.

MFS founders Michael King and Phil Adams were partners in minor Gold Coast law firm McLaughlins solicitors until 2000, when they formed MFS.

The pair went to the market raising billions of dollars from investors and buying up assets as diverse as ski fields and aquariums, often paying premium prices.

When the company collapsed many investors claimed they had no idea of the high risks involved with investing in the company.

One such investor is Christopher Cole, who sold his New Zealand home last year and invested the entire $600,000 proceeds in MFS PIF at the suggestion of a Gold Coast financial planner.

He had placed that money in the fund while searching for a new home. "I was going to buy a house with it but now I can't afford to and I'm living in a caravan," Mr Cole said.

"I did exactly what you're not supposed to do and invested it all in the one place, but the planner said it was a good idea.

"It's pretty devastating but you've just got to get on with your life."

The gap between consumer expectation and the products marketed is widespread, according to experts.

Mortgage funds attract investors by either advertising to the public directly or paying financial planners to sell their product.

Unlike many financial planners, Neil Kendall, of financial planning firm Tupicoffs, said he refused to steer clients into mortgage trusts, which he said were "fundamentally flawed".

"They are often promoted as a safe liquid investment (but) in essence they are tied to the property market and they are not liquid," Mr Kendall said.

"If a lot of people want their money back, the mortgage fund doesn't have the ability to pay it back quickly."

He said mortgage funds were "fundamentally flawed" because they typically borrowed funds for periods much shorter than the loans they wrote. "Mortgage trusts and unlisted property trusts both have this issue that if any number of people want their money, they are clearly not going to be able to generate it quickly."

But mortgage funds were not all bad news, according to Property Investment Research associate director Dugald Higgins.

He said that although many more conservative mortgage funds were offering annual returns at 6 to 7 per cent -- similar to or less than risk-free bank deposits -- banks were not always the best option. Conservative mortgage funds typically made loans to a range of borrowers, rather than focus on lending predominantly to property developers, as many of the higher-risk funds did, he said.

He said mortgage fund loans were typically made at fixed rates over several years, which meant some mortgage trusts would become more attractive to investors, depending on their risk profile.

"Quite often superannuation funds like to invest in conservative mortgage funds because they have a very predictable income stream, even if it is a bit lower than other investments," Mr Higgins said.

In April, ASIC announced it would have a second crack at reining in the mortgage fund sector as part of its broader crackdown on borrowing institutions in the wake of the fall of the Fincorp and Westpoint property empires.

Over coming months mortgage funds will be required to report against a set of eight benchmarks -- such as the liquidity of the funds and withdrawal arrangements -- or explain to investors why they are unable to do so.

The plan is expected to go some way to improving transparency in the often cloudy sector, but for many investors it will be, like many ASIC initiatives before it, too little too late.

-----------------------------------
direct link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24547993-5017996,00.html

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Link to revealing 20 minute audio from BBC explaining financial fraud.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/

 

[roast]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Roast

The numbers add up on original white version.

The numbers don't add up on the new blue version.

There are differances in the coding and value allocations between the two versions.

The total dividend amount remains the same in both versions.

I will send both to my accountant just to confuse him.

Splitpin.

I don’t have an accountant … it’s me & taxpack (disclaimer: I’m no tax agent) … which also means Oct 31 is my final deadline for the correct figures! I tried to get answers from WellCap but, as I read in this forum, I’m not the only one who doesn’t get a reply, so thanks to those who are also following this up as it effects all statements.

For DoraNBoots, who asked, & others, the problems are these:
The first (white) statement included foreign income in the total at label 13U & the supplementary section of taxpack says that 13U is to include “Distribution from trusts, less net capital gains and foreign income” so it should show only the total amount of non-primary Production income shown in Part D.
Also, the statement showed an amount at label 20E (assessable foreign source income) & 0.00 at 20M (other net foreign source income). Most statements show the same amount at both these labels.

In the new (blue) statement the amounts at label 20E & 20M are now the same… sounding good so far and, as SPLITPIN says, the total dividend amount (net cash distribution) remains the same on both statements … yes, the amounts we have received remain the same & are, I believe, correct.

The problem now is that this blue statement has a hotchpotch of calculations in Part D. It should be: Total amounts under “Cash distribution” + “tax paid/offsets” = “Taxable amount” – this should apply both for Aust. Income as well as Foreign income. (If you look at the original statement they are). If you look at most (all) fund statements they are.

So, I’m looking forward to breaker1’s response from WellCap next week.

This is the great value of this forum – help from others who are in the same boat - & yes, I’d rather be sailing, fishing, gardening or even cleaning rather than doing the tax-mambo!!

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Can some one out there tell me when was X DIV day for our 3 cents we are getting on Friday PLEASE There has to be a day but i cant find it Thanks Dane ////

 

[2CentsWorth]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Can some one out there tell me when was X DIV day for our 3 cents we are getting on Friday PLEASE There has to be a day but i cant find it Thanks Dane ////

Hi Dane,
so far, no Record-Date has been received from WC, and hence, there can be no Ex-Date. (Normally 4 business days prior.) The only dates we have to work with are, 31st October 2008, which is the nominated payment date for the first installment, being 1.5 cents, and the 24th December 2008, being the payment date for the second installment of 1.5 cents. (Total of 3 cents)

If you have transferred your units over to your son, as you previously said you were going to do, you will have to ring WC and get details of when they settled on a Record date, to find out which one of you will receive the first Dividend, and who will receive the bigger Christmas present.

Best wishes,
2CentsWorth.

 

[Dowdy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Now this is listed on the NSX at .45c, do you think this will ever get back to 1.00

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Now this is listed on the NSX at .45c, do you think this will ever get back to 1.00

Hi Dowdy,
I’m assuming you are not currently a unit holder in the PIF and I’m interested to know an outsiders point of view. Can you tell us what price you would pay for units in the PIF right now and how long you would expect it to take for PIF units to be selling for $1 on the NSX?

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Now this is listed on the NSX at .45c, do you think this will ever get back to 1.00

Dowdy really it is listed at 10 cents bid which is really what the market thinks it is only worth if you want to sell at market ?An asset is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it Which is bloody sad Dane //