Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A lot of write offs:

1. Asset Write Offs-
Financial Instrument Investments in Octaviar related entities $ 87,548,000
Asset backed Investments in Octaviar related entities 148,882,000
236,430,000
Financial Instrument Investments in other entities 22,811,000
Asset backed Investments in other entities 22,090,000
$281,331,000

Mortgage Loan Write Offs $ 85,698,000

Loss on Realisation of Financial Instruments $ 56,196,000

TOTAL WRITE OFFS (Octaviar = 64.4%) $367,029,000
REALISED LOSSES on sale of Assets $ 56,196,000

2. Balance of RBOS Loan of $9.4 mil. has been refinanced with a non-bank institution at an interest rate of 20%.
Maturity date of loan is 30th Nov.2008.

 

[akernst]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is the bottom of the Auditor's Report that finished last week.
Please WC tell us this incorrect!


Material Uncertainy - Going Concern and carrying value of assets

Without qualification to the above conclusion, we draw attention to note 2(b) in the
financial report which indicates that, there is material uncertainty as to the recoverability
of the assets recorded in the financial report. These uncertainties are further explained
in notes 9, 11 and 12. These conditions along with other matters as set forth in note 2(b) indicate
there is significant uncertainty whether the Fund will continue as a going concern and whether
it will realise its assets and extinguish its liabilities in teh normal course of business and at the
amounts stated in the financial report.

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

However, after taking into account all available information, the directors have concluded that there are
reasonable grounds to believe the Fund will be able to pay its debts as and when they become due and
payable and continue in operation without any intention, or necessity, to liquidate or otherwise wind up its
operations. As such, the basis of preparation of the financial report on an on going basis is appropriate.

These people always use phrases to cover their ar*es, there is a "degree of uncertainty" in anything in life!!!

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

How many have read this report?

Courtesy of two PIF AG members:


Wellington PIF
Annual Report
Premium Income Fund
ARSN 090 687 577
30 June 2008

Click on:

A question that begs an answer ,is why have WC re not posted this report on the PIF website. It would appear that there may be some with holding of , or trying to conceal information that may influence the vote.
A pity as I was starting to throw my weight behind them , believing Ms Hudson was being totally transparent. However there now appears to be some doubts as to their integrity. ( perhaps the tears shed by Hudson at the last meeting were crocodile tears)
This should be raised at the meeting to be held on the 15th with Ms Hudson.

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A question that begs an answer ,is why have WC re not posted this report on the PIF website. It would appear that there may be some with holding of , or trying to conceal information that may influence the vote.
A pity as I was starting to throw my weight behind them , believing Ms Hudson was being totally transparent. However there now appears to be some doubts as to their integrity. ( perhaps the tears shed by Hudson at the last meeting were crocodile tears)
This should be raised at the meeting to be held on the 15th with Ms Hudson.

Maybe it's in the mail to us Ernie. If it's not, then it should definately be raised at the meeting. I would have thought it an advantage rather than a disadvantage for Wellington to have this published.

In the current financial chaos, Wellington seem to have performed reasonably well!

...................JH

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is the bottom of the Auditor's Report that finished last week.
Please WC tell us this incorrect!

From my reading, the AR concurs with what WC had already forewarned us about. No significant new reasons to panic. But I'm not a finance person.

I don't like the look of Note 2(h) on page 14. "The fund has decided not to early adopt AASB 8." Do any of you finance people have a feel for what this means for PIF? Should we expect another smashing of asset 'values' when PIF does move to AASB 8?

$12.65M was wasted in servicing debt. That's 1.66c per unit. Ouch. Oh and PIF's paying 20% on the $9.4M we still owe. Those Gold Coast cowboys really flogged us.

I can't see Michael King's Super fund in Related party unitholdings on page 24. I suppose we won't ever see how many units are held by OCV related entities now that WC own the shares in the RE.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped - I agree with you. Wellington's use of the internet is very patchy. Their PIF web site doesn't often dispense information when you want it (eg: tax info schedule). At one stage, they said that only about 1000 PIF investors had access to the web. Really? The web can no longer be regarded as being an oddity. It is a recognised means of early 21st century communication. Hope that those who attend the meeting keep asking important questions.

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A question that begs an answer ,is why have WC re not posted this report on the PIF website. It would appear that there may be some with holding of , or trying to conceal information that may influence the vote.
A pity as I was starting to throw my weight behind them , believing Ms Hudson was being totally transparent. However there now appears to be some doubts as to their integrity. ( perhaps the tears shed by Hudson at the last meeting were crocodile tears)
This should be raised at the meeting to be held on the 15th with Ms Hudson.

It’s obvious WC are concealing information by the fact the majority of unit holders only received the corrective information today leaving only 3 postal days before the proxy forms are due. Overseas unit holders and others will not get this information before the vote is due.

No redemptions, no target rate of return, no enforced buyback, diminshed unit holder rights, guaranteed RE fees paid in advance before expenses and distributions, 2% severance fee, no tax statements, answering machine coldline between 9:30 - 16:00, a novice fund manager, misleading documentation...

From the fund's constitution
"19.7 An amount referred to in clause 19.6 which is incurred or payable as a direct result of neglect, fraud or breach of this constitution on the part of the Responsible entity, shall not be paid out of the Scheme.”

-----
"I can be your best friend or your worst enemy. You seem to prefer the latter."

 

[akernst]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is the bottom of the Auditor's Report that finished last week.
Please WC tell us this is incorrect! Please give us evidence that the Fund
is a going concern.

Material Uncertainy - Going Concern and carrying value of assets

Without qualification to the above conclusion, we draw attention to note 2(b) in the
financial report which indicates that, there is material uncertainty as to the recoverability
of the assets recorded in the financial report. These uncertainties are further explained
in notes 9, 11 and 12. These conditions along with other matters as set forth in note 2(b) indicate
there is significant uncertainty whether the Fund will continue as a going concern and whether
it will realise its assets and extinguish its liabilities in the normal course of business and at the
amounts stated in the financial report.

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is the bottom of the Auditor's Report that finished last week.
Please WC tell us this is incorrect! Please give us evidence that the Fund
is a going concern.

Andree, Please see Maverick's entry above (2865). In these difficult financial times it would be unwise for anybody to give guarantees.

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Why would JH put in $15-$20m of her own money to purchase the fund management rights, to then not be a going concern and lose it? Does JH seem like an idiot to you?

Cable Guy is still trying to flog the PIFI dead horse, that must by now be maggott infested. Matey, do you not get that even if the stupid PIFI / ASIC imposed 'clarification' letter was not received by anyone it would not make a lick of difference to the vote. Please tell me that you get that?? :horse:

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Cable Guy is not flogging the PIFI /He is telling the truth thats all .Something we are not getting from WC /Anybody with with half a brain can see that ///////////

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Judgment

The judge and ASIC seem to be under the impression that Wellington are providing an orderly realisation of assets over a period of 3 to 5 years which will return 45 cents to unit holders. There was no mention during the 5 hour proceeding of Wellington returning $1 in 5 years! And interesting to note an orderly realisation of assets is over 3 to 5 years is assumed to be occurring despite Wellington stating to numerous unit holders the law does not permit this option and it’s not something they are interested in.

Page 3
“In broad terms what is proposed by this meeting is that the constitution of the fund would be changed in several respects with the objective of the fund continuing to trade as a going concern for a period in the vicinity of three to five years. The purpose of that is to return to unit holders far more than they would be likely to receive on effectively a winding up of the fund by the redemption of units in march next year. In broad terms the comparison is between an estimated 14 cents per unit in the event of a redemption in March of next year and about 45 cents in the event that the fund continues to trade, is able to conduct an orderly realisation of assets and otherwise is able to conduct it’s affairs over the next three to five years.”

Page 13
“I have had regard also to the financial material within this explanatory memorandum and to what is said about the likely proceeds from the orderly realisation of assets over a period of three to five years, …”

Page 17
“Of course that is not the only thing which is proposed and there are other financial considerations involved in a choice between effectively terminating the fund early next year and allowing it to trade on for three to five years….”

It looks like ASIC decided to abandon the issue of resolution 3 being an ordinary resolution instead of an extraordinary resolution. I find this disappointing as it should have been easy to prove an extraordinary resolution was appropriate for our fund due to it not being listed and I think it's also important as it's likely resolution 3 will meet the requirements of an ordinary but not an extraordinary resolution. Meaning we will have to pay the 2% RE fee if WC are removed.

Page 16
“The notice here refers to that an ordinary resolution. Originally complaint was made in that respect that that point was abandoned by ASIC.”

The judge agrees that unit holders will not have entitlement to receive any cash payments, the buy back or the advisory committee.

Page 7 “These are things WC are saying they will do but they are not legal obliged to do . In my view unit holders should not understand the material to represent that the passing of the resolutions would have the result of giving a legal entitlement to those interim payments, a buy-back of unit or the establishment of the investor advisory commit.”

Looks like the judge will hold WC to their statement of not taking the management fee before unit holders receive a 3 cent per unit distribution as the new constitution allows management fees regardless is the fund can afford to pay them (unlike the existing constitution). i.e. before expenses and distributions.

Page 8
The material, and particular the chairperson’s letter, represents that this management fee would not be paid to the entity until after “the 3 per cent cash payment has been made to unit holders”. That is a reference to payments totalling 3 cents per unit to be made by 24 December 2008. However, if the constitution is amended as proposed, there would be no limitation by the constitution which postponed the entity’s entitlement to the management fee paid monthly until after payment of that 3 cents per unit. Recognising this, the respondent offers an undertaking, the effect of which is that it would not claim the management fee until after those cash payments totally 3 cents per unit were paid, as is proposed, by 24 December next.”

Judge agrees the quarterly thereafter statement is misleading.

Page 12
“Ultimately, as I read this material as a whole, the various references to the quarterly payments could be reasonably understood by unit holders as references to quarterly payments in each quarter of 3 cents per unit.”

Page 13\14
“…(this) does not appear to have emerged until this morning when further affidavits came from the respondent’s side. In particular, it was only within an affidavit sworn today that the relevant resolutions of the board of the respondent were disclosed.

The result of the conclusion I have reached as to what might be reasonably understood about the size of these quarterly payments is that what is said about them is, in my view, misleading or deceptive or likely to mislead or deceive.”

If you have not yet realised from the audit or the figures\spreadsheets your fellow unit holders have generated that WCs statements of 1.5 cents per quarter and returning $1 in 3 to 5 years is not going to happen perhaps the above judgment will open your eyes. All spreadsheets and figures that have been produced to date have shown even the buy back will cripple the fund.

No redmeptions, no return of capital, no distrubtions. How about saying No to the resolutions and putting forward a decent resolution.

-----
"Wake up lil snoozy! Smell the smelling salts!"

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Judgment

The judge and ASIC seem to be under the impression that Wellington are providing an orderly realisation of assets ............. etc etc.
If you have not yet realised from the audit or the figures\spreadsheets your fellow unit holders have generated that WCs statements of 1.5 cents per quarter and returning $1 in 3 to 5 years is not going to happen perhaps the above judgment will open your eyes. All spreadsheets and figures that have been produced to date have shown even the buy back will cripple the fund.

No redmeptions, no return of capital, no distrubtions. How about saying No to the resolutions and putting forward a decent resolution.

-----
"Wake up lil snoozy! Smell the smelling salts!"

........More destructive criticism!!!

Oh for Goodness sake, stop repeating what sane thinking people already know and have accepted.

You have yet to come up with any positive suggestion other than to liquidate and realise 14 cents a share!

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

........More destructive criticism!!!

Oh for Goodness sake, stop repeating what sane thinking people already know and have accepted.

You have yet to come up with any positive suggestion other than to liquidate and realise 14 cents a share!

The ‘positive suggestion’ which has been mentioned many times on this forum is what the judge and ASIC are under the impression is actually happening with the fund – an orderly realisation of assets over 3 to 5 years. The return of capital, not the locking away of our money on the NSX.

----
"You were never there for me were you mother? You expected Mike and Carol Brady to raise me! I'm the bastard son of Claire Huxtable! I am a Lost Cunningham! I learned the facts of life from watching The Facts of Life! Oh God!"

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all,
Been away for a while but now I'm back. Been catching up - lots of reading. Gee, Wellington was dragged into Supreme Court and LOST. Then I see in the press JH has tried to blame a group of investors opposed to them for it all. They were taken to court over their own mistakes. Hope their not going to make the Fund pay for the costs of their mistakes !!!! I received their additional information today, doesn't really say much. Same old spin.

Read through the Annual Report -disasterous. Why aren't they going after Octaviar for the full amount that had to be written off - $236.4mil ???
Obvious that no distributions are going to be paid in 2009. Also looks like the buy-back is unlikely to happen also. There's not going to be any profits next year either after Wellington takes their cut.

Also read through the Supreme Court Judgement - judge confirms my views - Wellington has no legal obligation to pay distributions or go ahead with the buy back. Promotional hoo haa. Why does he think that Wellington is proposing an orderly wind down over 3-5 years. Wellington has stated to investors that that is definately not their intention at all. If this was given as an option I know I'd be voting for it !!!!

By the way, why aren't distributions being paid now ??? No reason why they can't be. Why is this payment being witheld from us ????

Cable Guy your posts nail it on the head. Why is it that the truth when presented in facts and evidence is so hard for some people to deal with ??

Maverick - who are you ??? What's with the "us" and "we" - are you representing some kind of group ?

Everyone should analyse the facts presented in the Annual Report. What a majority of unit holders believe is going to happen is just impossible.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Sell your units on the NSX ??? Your forgetting you need a buyer to sell them And there will be no buyers what so ever Did some one once said YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME ALL THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME BUT NOT ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME one WOULD HAVE TO REALLY BE A FOOL TO THINK YOU WILL EVER GET YOUR MONEY BACK IN THE FUTURE we are heading for the biggest property slump in 78 years interest raters will be down to 2% in 2010 Its all over so just kiss all your money good by And just let WC enjoy our fees //

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all,
Been away for a while but now I'm back. Been catching up - lots of reading. Gee, Wellington was dragged into Supreme Court and LOST. Then I see in the press JH has tried to blame a group of investors opposed to them for it all. They were taken to court over their own mistakes. Hope their not going to make the Fund pay for the costs of their mistakes !!!! I received their additional information today, doesn't really say much. Same old spin.

Read through the Annual Report -disasterous. Why aren't they going after Octaviar for the full amount that had to be written off - $236.4mil ???
Obvious that no distributions are going to be paid in 2009. Also looks like the buy-back is unlikely to happen also. There's not going to be any profits next year either after Wellington takes their cut.

Also read through the Supreme Court Judgement - judge confirms my views - Wellington has no legal obligation to pay distributions or go ahead with the buy back. Promotional hoo haa. Why does he think that Wellington is proposing an orderly wind down over 3-5 years. Wellington has stated to investors that that is definately not their intention at all. If this was given as an option I know I'd be voting for it !!!!

By the way, why aren't distributions being paid now ??? No reason why they can't be. Why is this payment being witheld from us ????

Cable Guy your posts nail it on the head. Why is it that the truth when presented in facts and evidence is so hard for some people to deal with ??

Maverick - who are you ??? What's with the "us" and "we" - are you representing some kind of group ?

Everyone should analyse the facts presented in the Annual Report. What a majority of unit holders believe is going to happen is just impossible.

BURNT it is called the miss informed True believers group ???//

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all,
Been away for a while but now I'm back. Been catching up - lots of reading. Gee, Wellington was dragged into Supreme Court and LOST. Then I see in the press JH has tried to blame a group of investors opposed to them for it all. They were taken to court over their own mistakes. Hope their not going to make the Fund pay for the costs of their mistakes !!!! I received their additional information today, doesn't really say much. Same old spin.

Read through the Annual Report -disasterous. Why aren't they going after Octaviar for the full amount that had to be written off - $236.4mil ???
Obvious that no distributions are going to be paid in 2009. Also looks like the buy-back is unlikely to happen also. There's not going to be any profits next year either after Wellington takes their cut.

Also read through the Supreme Court Judgement - judge confirms my views - Wellington has no legal obligation to pay distributions or go ahead with the buy back. Promotional hoo haa. Why does he think that Wellington is proposing an orderly wind down over 3-5 years. Wellington has stated to investors that that is definately not their intention at all. If this was given as an option I know I'd be voting for it !!!!

By the way, why aren't distributions being paid now ??? No reason why they can't be. Why is this payment being witheld from us ????

Cable Guy your posts nail it on the head. Why is it that the truth when presented in facts and evidence is so hard for some people to deal with ??

Maverick - who are you ??? What's with the "us" and "we" - are you representing some kind of group ?

Everyone should analyse the facts presented in the Annual Report. What a majority of unit holders believe is going to happen is just impossible.

Burnt i think you could it the miss informed informed true believerd group ???

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Moderator,

Thanks for removing the post by Maverick2802 and to whoever reported it.

Can you please advise if the account for Maverick2802 has been suspended as per the quote below. This person has had numerous inappropriate posts removed from this thread and maybe others will start posting on this thread again if they know they won’t be personally attached.

Regards,
Dora.

Please ladies and gents, no more personal attacks.

If I see even the slightest personal insult or taunt, accounts will be suspended.

Cheers,
kennas