Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Wolfgang

You are absolutely correct

Jenny Hutson has claimed repeatedly and unequivocally that she is prepared

to liquidate the Fund at an estimated value of 14cents by March 2009

That means she is prepared to destoy the lives of pensioners ,widows and people who have life threatening illness and desperately need income to gain control of the fund and make a lousy dollar.

Good luck to those who vote for her because you will need it down the years to come.

The problem is, we'd need more than luck if we voted NO! - without a better structure in place, we'd need our heads read!

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Wolfgang

You are absolutely correct

Jenny Hutson has claimed repeatedly and unequivocally that she is prepared

to liquidate the Fund at an estimated value of 14cents by March 2009

That means she is prepared to destoy the lives of pensioners ,widows and people who have life threatening illness and desperately need income to gain control of the fund and make a lousy dollar.

Good luck to those who vote for her because you will need it down the years to come.

She will only force a liquidation if the investors don't wish to allow her to manage it as a going concern. So don't twist the words around.

Sounds like you have already resigned to the fact that PIFI will have no chance in making the inroads you hoped it would ay Jadel?

With hard work from a very capable RE, making the right investment decisions and some investor input I think it will be a case of good management rather than luck that will see this fund prosper in future. I hope you will stay for the ride and share that prosperity with all of us and I thank you for your good wishes.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Attention All

This thread has now been locked, meaning no further posts can be made, pending a review by the forum owner and administrator.

ASF has accomodated this thread relatively happily until recently. We moderators are now receiving 3 or 4 complaints about this thread per day, which is more than we receice in an average week across the ENTIRE other sections of the forum. Any new thread on this topic will be removed.

We understand that people are annoyed at having lost their money, however it seems that this thread is consuming a lot of time and effort, and very few members contribute to this site outside of this thread.

If there are any questions please contact us via PM.

Thankyou for your understanding and hopefully it can be unlocked soon.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Further to PMs that have been received:

There was no reason for closing this thread, beyond the fact that it is consuming a huge amount of moderators time, due to the number of complaints we were receieving about it.

We are still in discussions and reviewing the thread and a decison will be made in due course.

Regards

Prawn

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This thread has now been re-opened on the basis of the following conditions:

1. Do not attack other posters in the thread. Any post with an attack made on another participant will result in the post being removed and the offender being permanently suspended.

2. Do not reveal or refer to personal information about another thread participant. Stick to discussing issues regarding the topic at hand.

If this thread becomes too problematic again it will be closed permanently.

Thankyou for your patience, and please understand that ASF has no obligation to host this thread.

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Ray

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning all.

I hope you have all been well.

Thank you very much Ray!

Has anyone been in contact with WC to see how the vote is going or any new news?

I received my eagerly anticipated PIFI corro, more on that later.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Octaviar Debtors Opt for Administration, Financial Review Says

By Gemma Daley

Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Creditors of Octaviar Ltd., owed A$1 billion ($802 million), agreed last night to appoint a voluntary administrator for the financial services company, the Australian Financial Review reported.

Creditors, including the Premium Income Fund, OPI Pacific Finance and Challenger Financial Services Group Ltd., had little choice given a group of noteholders owed A$348 million by 2011 argued in Queensland Supreme Court that the company needed to be wound up, the newspaper reported.

Under a winding-up, Octaviar's assets would be sold off piecemeal, the newspaper said. Under voluntary administration, directors can remain in their jobs and assets can be sold off more gradually, the Review said.

The court put in place a restraining order at the request of the Public Trustee of Queensland, acting on behalf of noteholders, barring the Octaviar directors from appointing an administrator until 5 p.m. today, the newspaper said. Octaviar was formerly called MFS Ltd

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Octaviar Debtors Opt for Administration, Financial Review Says

By Gemma Daley

Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Creditors of Octaviar Ltd., owed A$1 billion ($802 million), agreed last night to appoint a voluntary administrator for the financial services company, the Australian Financial Review reported.

Creditors, including the Premium Income Fund, OPI Pacific Finance and Challenger Financial Services Group Ltd., had little choice given a group of noteholders owed A$348 million by 2011 argued in Queensland Supreme Court that the company needed to be wound up, the newspaper reported.

Under a winding-up, Octaviar's assets would be sold off piecemeal, the newspaper said. Under voluntary administration, directors can remain in their jobs and assets can be sold off more gradually, the Review said.

The court put in place a restraining order at the request of the Public Trustee of Queensland, acting on behalf of noteholders, barring the Octaviar directors from appointing an administrator until 5 p.m. today, the newspaper said. Octaviar was formerly called MFS Ltd.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This in yesterday's Australian

----------------------

When fund managers turn predators



SHAREHOLDER: Stuart Wilson | September 09, 2008

HAPLESS investors in the Octaviar Premium Income Fund have a gun pointed squarely at their heads by the funds manager, Jenny Hutson's Wellington Capital.

This sick property fund is a remnant of the MFS implosion earlier this year, and has more than 10,000 small, income-seeking investors. It is circling the drain, with investors locked in limbo and distributions no longer flowing. Yet Wellington is using every tricky tactic in the book to wring out its fees.

Investors have few options. The proposal put forward by Wellington is to list the fund on the National Stock Exchange. This means that instead of redeeming their units for cash, investors will have to sell them on-market.

But as the number of sellers will likely heavily outweigh buyers, and with unitholders' dwindling trust in Wellington, the price at which PIF units trade is virtually guaranteed to be below the $0.45 value quoted in the documentation sent to investors.

If buyers have been scared off after experiencing Wellington's bullying tactics designed to lock itself in as manager, the market price could easily wallow under the somewhat rubbery $0.14 per unit investors are told they could receive on liquidation.

Wellington has some legitimate reasons for seeking changes to the funds constitution to effect the fund's listing on the NSX. To emerge as a listed vehicle, the whole structure of the fund would need to be overhauled to work properly.

In particular, the fund would need to become close ended, which means units would no longer be issued or redeemed. Rather, units would be purchased or sold on-market, and the price struck would be based on supply and demand rather the net asset value of the unit.

Unfortunately for the proposed new model, demand seems to be in short supply.

In addition, the existing constitution proclaims that the manager is entitled to any surplus income after unitholders have been paid. This clearly does not sit well with Wellington Capital, which has proposed a more traditional asset-based fee. The fee is steep and would provide greater certainty for Wellington. The benefit of this proposed change to investors is not entirely clear.

The most abominable, oppressive element of the Wellington proposal is that in addition to proposing changes necessary to ensure the NSX listing works, they have attempted to slip in a few clauses for their own benefit. In particular, in the event that Wellington was removed as manager -- even for poor performance -- it would be entitled to a massive termination payment, currently about $8 million.

It would be difficult to turf out Wellington anyway, as a separate proposed change to the way the fund's meetings are structured will effectively entrench Wellington as manager until there is nothing left to gouge.

One hopes that investors finally declare they will not be treated as fee-generating fodder any more. Although an orderly sell-off of assets and winding up of the fund is the simplest and most certain of available options, some investors may wish to take the risk of monetising additional value through an NSX listing.

If that is the case, they should propose alternative changes to the constitution (without the clauses that only benefit the Wellington mob), either before or after voting down the current scheme.

Stuart Wilson is CEO of the Australian Shareholders Association

-----------end of article-------------

direct link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24314985-30538,00.html

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It has all become rather confusing for me ,what with the new PIF Inc. and wellington capital.
I invested my money in the original PIF to earn a monthly income and have capital preservation.
Some are now talking about an orderly wind up of the fund and the figure we should recieve is in the region 45 cents per unit.
W C are saying that given time ( +_ 5 years) they should be able to restore the units back to a dollar with a distribution of 6 cents next year and 3 cents this year.
It would appear to me that WC are closer to what my original objectives were of investing in the fund.
I therefore will be voting for WC to become the new RE for the PIF.

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

10 September 2008
Headline: Octaviar creditors opt for administration
Australian Financial Review, pg 13. Alexander Symonds. 10 September 2008.

Major creditors for Gold Coast financial services company Octaviar, formerly MFS, argued in the Supreme Court of Queensland, represented by the Public Trustee of Queensland, that the company be wound up. The creditors, believed to be Challenger, the Premium Income Fund and OPI Pacific Finance, were left with little choice but to agree to a wind up of the company as a group of noteholders owed $348 million by 2011. The decision left Octaviar on the brink of collapse last night.

The Court heard that over 68 percent of the creditors wish to see the company wound up, leaving the remaining four creditors with little option other than to bring in voluntary administrators. Wellington Investment Management founder Jenny Hutson, is opposed to a winding up and said she will proceed with her $147.5 million legal claim if Octaviar is wound up.


Geeze that puts a spanner in the works!

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It has all become rather confusing for me ,what with the new PIF Inc. and wellington capital.
I invested my money in the original PIF to earn a monthly income and have capital preservation.
Some are now talking about an orderly wind up of the fund and the figure we should recieve is in the region 45 cents per unit.
W C are saying that given time ( +_ 5 years) they should be able to restore the units back to a dollar with a distribution of 6 cents next year and 3 cents this year.
It would appear to me that WC are closer to what my original objectives were of investing in the fund.
I therefore will be voting for WC to become the new RE for the PIF.

Fortunately I think most people agree with your common sense Ernie

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning all.

I hope you have all been well.

Thank you very much Ray!

Has anyone been in contact with WC to see how the vote is going or any new news?

I received my eagerly anticipated PIFI corro, more on that later.

I just spoke with WC, no exact figures, but feedback is still looking very much in favour for JH at this point in time. Perhaps also is now the time to realise we still have a long road ahead with the PIF regardless of the outcome and it would be to all unitholders advantage to consolidate and work as a united body rather than lose credibility by becoming fragmented. Seamisty

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I just spoke with WC, no exact figures, but feedback is still looking very much in favour for JH at this point in time. Perhaps also is now the time to realise we still have a long road ahead with the PIF regardless of the outcome and it would be to all unitholders advantage to consolidate and work as a united body rather than lose credibility by becoming fragmented. Seamisty

I agree Seamisty, in countering one another we absorb energy & talents that would be better used to serve ASF readers and PIF investors as a whole.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This in yesterday's Australian

----------------------

When fund managers turn predators



SHAREHOLDER: Stuart Wilson | September 09, 2008

HAPLESS investors in the Octaviar Premium Income Fund have a gun pointed squarely at their heads by the funds manager, Jenny Hutson's Wellington Capital.

This sick property fund is a remnant of the MFS implosion earlier this year, and has more than 10,000 small, income-seeking investors. It is circling the drain, with investors locked in limbo and distributions no longer flowing. Yet Wellington is using every tricky tactic in the book to wring out its fees.

Investors have few options. The proposal put forward by Wellington is to list the fund on the National Stock Exchange. This means that instead of redeeming their units for cash, investors will have to sell them on-market.

But as the number of sellers will likely heavily outweigh buyers, and with unitholders' dwindling trust in Wellington, the price at which PIF units trade is virtually guaranteed to be below the $0.45 value quoted in the documentation sent to investors.

If buyers have been scared off after experiencing Wellington's bullying tactics designed to lock itself in as manager, the market price could easily wallow under the somewhat rubbery $0.14 per unit investors are told they could receive on liquidation.

Wellington has some legitimate reasons for seeking changes to the funds constitution to effect the fund's listing on the NSX. To emerge as a listed vehicle, the whole structure of the fund would need to be overhauled to work properly.

In particular, the fund would need to become close ended, which means units would no longer be issued or redeemed. Rather, units would be purchased or sold on-market, and the price struck would be based on supply and demand rather the net asset value of the unit.

Unfortunately for the proposed new model, demand seems to be in short supply.

In addition, the existing constitution proclaims that the manager is entitled to any surplus income after unitholders have been paid. This clearly does not sit well with Wellington Capital, which has proposed a more traditional asset-based fee. The fee is steep and would provide greater certainty for Wellington. The benefit of this proposed change to investors is not entirely clear.

The most abominable, oppressive element of the Wellington proposal is that in addition to proposing changes necessary to ensure the NSX listing works, they have attempted to slip in a few clauses for their own benefit. In particular, in the event that Wellington was removed as manager -- even for poor performance -- it would be entitled to a massive termination payment, currently about $8 million.

It would be difficult to turf out Wellington anyway, as a separate proposed change to the way the fund's meetings are structured will effectively entrench Wellington as manager until there is nothing left to gouge.

One hopes that investors finally declare they will not be treated as fee-generating fodder any more. Although an orderly sell-off of assets and winding up of the fund is the simplest and most certain of available options, some investors may wish to take the risk of monetising additional value through an NSX listing.

If that is the case, they should propose alternative changes to the constitution (without the clauses that only benefit the Wellington mob), either before or after voting down the current scheme.

Stuart Wilson is CEO of the Australian Shareholders Association

-----------end of article-------------

direct link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24314985-30538,00.html

I wont all you good folk out there to read the above by Stuart Wilson in the Australia again & again He is right on the money what he says / Dane //

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Stuart Wilson is CEO of the Australian Shareholders Association

This is the second scathing article by this one eyed reporter.

His 'writing' style is nothing short of sensationalist propaganda towards shareholders. Sounds like either himself or someone very close to him has lost a PACKET on OCV and is causing his writing to be obsecenely clouded.

The fact he is suggesting this fund with retirees and mum & dad investors be liquidated is nothing short of irresponsible and a misappropriation of journalistic power.

People should really just dismiss reports by this fellow and move on to the cartoon section which has more credibility.

 

[Sean K]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Stuart Wilson is CEO of the Australian Shareholders Association


People should really just dismiss reports by this fellow and move on to the cartoon section which has more credibility.

What's his agenda?

To look after shareholders?

 

[BABIHUTAN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This in yesterday's Australian

----------------------

A/. When fund managers turn predators

SHAREHOLDER: Stuart Wilson | September 09, 2008
HAPLESS ................................

{Google Alerts picked up the above 'Austalian' article and fwdd in an email}

B/. Breaker1's Email messages [2] to Investors on his list

{I have not yet mastered how to extract & quote bits of multiple posts into a reply so have resorted to CTRL+C & CTRL+V}

C/. Erniel's bit "QTE"
It has all become rather confusing for me ,what with the new PIF Inc. and wellington capital.
I invested my money in the original PIF to earn a monthly income and have capital preservation........................................................

ME TOO tho' in my case I rolled over for years - a case where the power of compounding certainly has not worked!!

D/. Seamisty's bit "QTE"
I just spoke with WC, no exact figures, but feedback is still looking very much in favour for JH at this point in time. Perhaps also is now the time to realise we still have a long road ahead with the PIF regardless of the outcome and it would be to all unitholders advantage to consolidate and work as a united body rather than lose credibility by becoming fragmented. Seamisty

E/. My bit
Little wonder many of us are confused with two diametrically opposed views { A & B } at a time when the Forum was suspended and the voting deadline is imminent.
Going back there have been posts that essentially said we are all in this together and should stick together to achieve the best outcome for the - majority - Hopefully the results of the vote will ensure this happens but unfortunately there will be some losers.

I share the sentiments of the last three contibuters - B,C,& D and look forward to moving forward progressively after the voting dust has settled. Babihutan.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Stuart Wilson is CEO of the Australian Shareholders Association

This is the second scathing article by this one eyed reporter.

His 'writing' style is nothing short of sensationalist propaganda towards shareholders. Sounds like either himself or someone very close to him has lost a PACKET on OCV and is causing his writing to be obsecenely clouded.

The fact he is suggesting this fund with retirees and mum & dad investors be liquidated is nothing short of irresponsible and a misappropriation of journalistic power.

People should really just dismiss reports by this fellow and move on to the cartoon section which has more credibility.

Intriguing isn't it. Love to see a counter from WC.

Maybe it's a call for us to contact them because they have a solution?

Question to ponder: is ASA's interests opposed to the interests of unlisted private equity like PIF.