Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
........ Any idea what that 3605 represents in unit holdings?
........ Any idea what that 3605 represents in unit holdings?
Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
"Snap" - but I suspect for different reasons!
"Snap" - but I suspect for different reasons!
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Sorry wasn't told, but I will get an update in two days and will ask then!
Sorry wasn't told, but I will get an update in two days and will ask then!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi JohnH,WC just told me they would contact Computershare and if they can get the information would get back to me. Cheers, Seamisty
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
They probably wouldn't tell us I am thinking.
It really does indicate the trend though doesn't it. If anything those with holdings in the 7 figure range will vote for WC for the income and stability factor alone, and of course they have the most to lose under liquidation.
I wonder what the unit holding total is of the PIFI investors. On a very educated estimate I bet not one has a 7 figure unit holding. So why are they so adamant about destabilising the current RE? Hey RickH you may be onto something after all mate!!!
They probably wouldn't tell us I am thinking.
It really does indicate the trend though doesn't it. If anything those with holdings in the 7 figure range will vote for WC for the income and stability factor alone, and of course they have the most to lose under liquidation.
I wonder what the unit holding total is of the PIFI investors. On a very educated estimate I bet not one has a 7 figure unit holding. So why are they so adamant about destabilising the current RE? Hey RickH you may be onto something after all mate!!!
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Maybe some of the other 2700 but not me. Any extra units I could afford would not make any major play.
Maybe some of the other 2700 but not me. Any extra units I could afford would not make any major play.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Dora, it would also be good for us all to know the Unit value of the committed PIFI members (but I don't think we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting that info!>):
Dora, it would also be good for us all to know the Unit value of the committed PIFI members (but I don't think we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting that info!>):
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Good question. With a potential listing just 10 days away. They must have formed some view by now.
Good question. With a potential listing just 10 days away. They must have formed some view by now.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
It still seems to be happening. Lots more posts full of rubbishing comments and no constructive information. Again ! more unsubstantiated rumours and hearsay !!!
Let me respond again to those that persist in stating false information regarding RE walking away and the fund being placed into forced liquidation.
THE RE MUST REMAIN THE RE UNTIL ANOTHER RE IS REGISTERED WITH ASIC. BEFORE A NEW RE CAN BE REGISTERED WITH ASIC, THE UNIT HOLDERS HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT. Secondly, WC cannot afford to walk away. They are due to pay Octaviar in June 2009 the purchase price for taking over the RE company. This payment basically equals 4 years worth of management fees.
NO ONE IS PROMOTING LIQUIDATION AND LIQUIDATION CANNOT BE FORCED UPON THE FUND. UNIT HOLDERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS.
It still seems to be happening. Lots more posts full of rubbishing comments and no constructive information. Again ! more unsubstantiated rumours and hearsay !!!
Let me respond again to those that persist in stating false information regarding RE walking away and the fund being placed into forced liquidation.
THE RE MUST REMAIN THE RE UNTIL ANOTHER RE IS REGISTERED WITH ASIC. BEFORE A NEW RE CAN BE REGISTERED WITH ASIC, THE UNIT HOLDERS HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT. Secondly, WC cannot afford to walk away. They are due to pay Octaviar in June 2009 the purchase price for taking over the RE company. This payment basically equals 4 years worth of management fees.
NO ONE IS PROMOTING LIQUIDATION AND LIQUIDATION CANNOT BE FORCED UPON THE FUND. UNIT HOLDERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
There is no rumour, it is substantiated in black and white in the WC literature that the current RE is not interested in anything but the fund being managed as a going concern.
JH walks away once her legal obligation is fulfilled. No RE in place, ASIC places a liquidator to fulfil the current constitution regarding redemptions if the current constitution cannot be amended in time. Mate you're not the only one with the understanding of what the legalities here you know.
She pays nothing to OCV, she has made no profit so 4 x $0 = $0, that's the agreement mate! So yes she can easily walk away with no huge loss to her financially. She has spent a lot of her time though, I grant you that.
By adopting a wreckless approach by a minority group with no RE in place it really does equate to a promotion of liquidation. What REAL alteranative options???
There is no rumour, it is substantiated in black and white in the WC literature that the current RE is not interested in anything but the fund being managed as a going concern.
JH walks away once her legal obligation is fulfilled. No RE in place, ASIC places a liquidator to fulfil the current constitution regarding redemptions if the current constitution cannot be amended in time. Mate you're not the only one with the understanding of what the legalities here you know.
She pays nothing to OCV, she has made no profit so 4 x $0 = $0, that's the agreement mate! So yes she can easily walk away with no huge loss to her financially. She has spent a lot of her time though, I grant you that.
By adopting a wreckless approach by a minority group with no RE in place it really does equate to a promotion of liquidation. What REAL alteranative options???
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Just had a return call from WC and was told as all the votes are immediately passed on to Computershare, they only know the number of proxies recieved, not the number of units represented and Computershare is not divulging that information. Regards, Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I believe that it has already been stated on this Forum that the figure to be paid for the RE business is based on actual profits earned. If they do not make profits they will not pay. From a financial point of view they may not be locked in and can walk. Then a currently unknown RE will take their place.
Regards, RickH:couch
Hi Burnt,
I believe that it has already been stated on this Forum that the figure to be paid for the RE business is based on actual profits earned. If they do not make profits they will not pay. From a financial point of view they may not be locked in and can walk. Then a currently unknown RE will take their place.
Regards, RickH:couch
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Burnt
This is not a rubbishing comment or more unsubstantiated rumours and hearsay.
I spoke to a Wellington Capital Limited last week and one question I asked was if Resolution 1 did not pass what will happen. The answer “we will liquidation of the Fund, the fund will not go into an orderly wind up, and the constitution will not be looked at again”
You are entitled to your opinions and I am passing on the information I got.
Wolfgang
Hi Burnt
This is not a rubbishing comment or more unsubstantiated rumours and hearsay.
I spoke to a Wellington Capital Limited last week and one question I asked was if Resolution 1 did not pass what will happen. The answer “we will liquidation of the Fund, the fund will not go into an orderly wind up, and the constitution will not be looked at again”
You are entitled to your opinions and I am passing on the information I got.
Wolfgang
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Excellent post Burnt. Goes somewhat towards possibly explaining why WC is risking losing PIF entirely (i.e. appearing to be cutting off its nose to spite its face) in proposing the changes to quorum clauses and the addition of the 2% termination fee. It suggests WC is not making the decision to include those changes flippantly. Fair enough but WC could have put a time limit on the 2% clause - although that would have further complicated the constitution.
All. I recall a decade or 2 ago that it was quite common for funds to apply exit fees in the order of 2% to investor withdrawals. And recall that ASX broker fees were up around the 1.5% too. Long before the $30 trade. I remember the $30 trade matching by Commsec ruffled a lot of feathers, namely flightless incumbents that had grown large on the easy pickings. Does my memory fail me? Can anyone confirm to the contrary? If not then the 1.5% NSX commission and the 2% WCL termination fee don't seem so extreme and outrageous but just - unattractive when compared to competitors current products.
Still confused.
Excellent post Burnt. Goes somewhat towards possibly explaining why WC is risking losing PIF entirely (i.e. appearing to be cutting off its nose to spite its face) in proposing the changes to quorum clauses and the addition of the 2% termination fee. It suggests WC is not making the decision to include those changes flippantly. Fair enough but WC could have put a time limit on the 2% clause - although that would have further complicated the constitution.
All. I recall a decade or 2 ago that it was quite common for funds to apply exit fees in the order of 2% to investor withdrawals. And recall that ASX broker fees were up around the 1.5% too. Long before the $30 trade. I remember the $30 trade matching by Commsec ruffled a lot of feathers, namely flightless incumbents that had grown large on the easy pickings. Does my memory fail me? Can anyone confirm to the contrary? If not then the 1.5% NSX commission and the 2% WCL termination fee don't seem so extreme and outrageous but just - unattractive when compared to competitors current products.
Still confused.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Very firm!
And 4 X nil = nil > then outta there!
Very firm!
And 4 X nil = nil > then outta there!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I've read the PIFI material posted to me. It would be terrific to have a real choice in this matter. but the PIFI documentation doesn't convince me to lend the group my support. Nor am I totally satisfied with WC's set-up, but it's the safer way to go.
I've read the PIFI material posted to me. It would be terrific to have a real choice in this matter. but the PIFI documentation doesn't convince me to lend the group my support. Nor am I totally satisfied with WC's set-up, but it's the safer way to go.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I have heard that same commentary from 2 other people today that have received their PIFI info pack and have emailed me. Where is that mailman, can't wait for mine to come!!
No doubt we will be hearing plenty of identical comments like this from selciper me thinks.
I have heard that same commentary from 2 other people today that have received their PIFI info pack and have emailed me. Where is that mailman, can't wait for mine to come!!
No doubt we will be hearing plenty of identical comments like this from selciper me thinks.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Burnt,
I am confused also. You are changing your statements to the benefit of your point of view as follows:
Originally Posted by Burnt
Even though this question was directed to someone else, I'd like to offer an answer.
Wellington bought up all the shares in Octaviar Investment Management Limited (PIF RE) from a wholly owned Octaviar subsidiary and they are due to pay that subsidiary company the purchase price in June 2009. This price is 4 x the net profit of WIM (WIM took on four other funds when purchasing OIM) for the 12 months following the acquisition, + Net Tangible Asset Value of WIM at the end of that 12 mths.
In other words, Wellington will be handing back 4 years worth of management fees to Octaviar. This is why they want to lock themselves in for an indefinite period and be paid a huge exit fee if removed. Considering that all costs are reimbursed to them (even taxes), WIM's net profit would have to equal their management fee.
Originally Posted by Burnt
THE RE MUST REMAIN THE RE UNTIL ANOTHER RE IS REGISTERED WITH ASIC. BEFORE A NEW RE CAN BE REGISTERED WITH ASIC, THE UNIT HOLDERS HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT. Secondly, WC cannot afford to walk away. They are due to pay Octaviar in June 2009 the purchase price for taking over the RE company. This payment basically equals 4 years worth of management fees.
Hi Burnt,
You are a professional accountant and you are trying to take the high ground and yet you are changing the meaning of your statements as you proceed.
Your previous post “This price is 4 x the net profit of WIM” THEN you said “WC cannot afford to walk away”.
You changed the statement completely to your benefit. JH can financially walk away.
Regards, RickH:couch
Hi Burnt,
I am confused also. You are changing your statements to the benefit of your point of view as follows:
Originally Posted by Burnt
Even though this question was directed to someone else, I'd like to offer an answer.
Wellington bought up all the shares in Octaviar Investment Management Limited (PIF RE) from a wholly owned Octaviar subsidiary and they are due to pay that subsidiary company the purchase price in June 2009. This price is 4 x the net profit of WIM (WIM took on four other funds when purchasing OIM) for the 12 months following the acquisition, + Net Tangible Asset Value of WIM at the end of that 12 mths.
In other words, Wellington will be handing back 4 years worth of management fees to Octaviar. This is why they want to lock themselves in for an indefinite period and be paid a huge exit fee if removed. Considering that all costs are reimbursed to them (even taxes), WIM's net profit would have to equal their management fee.
Originally Posted by Burnt
THE RE MUST REMAIN THE RE UNTIL ANOTHER RE IS REGISTERED WITH ASIC. BEFORE A NEW RE CAN BE REGISTERED WITH ASIC, THE UNIT HOLDERS HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT. Secondly, WC cannot afford to walk away. They are due to pay Octaviar in June 2009 the purchase price for taking over the RE company. This payment basically equals 4 years worth of management fees.
Hi Burnt,
You are a professional accountant and you are trying to take the high ground and yet you are changing the meaning of your statements as you proceed.
Your previous post “This price is 4 x the net profit of WIM” THEN you said “WC cannot afford to walk away”.
You changed the statement completely to your benefit. JH can financially walk away.
Regards, RickH:couch
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Wolfgang
You are absolutely correct
Jenny Hutson has claimed repeatedly and unequivocally that she is prepared
to liquidate the Fund at an estimated value of 14cents by March 2009
That means she is prepared to destoy the lives of pensioners ,widows and people who have life threatening illness and desperately need income to gain control of the fund and make a lousy dollar.
Good luck to those who vote for her because you will need it down the years to come.
Wolfgang
You are absolutely correct
Jenny Hutson has claimed repeatedly and unequivocally that she is prepared
to liquidate the Fund at an estimated value of 14cents by March 2009
That means she is prepared to destoy the lives of pensioners ,widows and people who have life threatening illness and desperately need income to gain control of the fund and make a lousy dollar.
Good luck to those who vote for her because you will need it down the years to come.
