Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
- Thread starter breaker1
- Start date
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Waleroo, you are absolutely correct ! (and well stated Newwtrader and Dexter).
Don't anyone be fooled by the scare tactics and threats issued by WC and reinforced by scaremongers here about "WC walking away" or "14c recovery on liquidation".
We as unit holders have rights and protections under the Corporations Act.
Sect.601FJ prevents an RE from just walking away from a fund. It is not possible.
Sect.601NC states that if the RE moves to liquidate the fund, members have the right to call a members meeting and vote on any extraordinary resolutions members propose about the winding up of the scheme.
Look at the facts.
Hi Waleroo, you are absolutely correct ! (and well stated Newwtrader and Dexter).
Don't anyone be fooled by the scare tactics and threats issued by WC and reinforced by scaremongers here about "WC walking away" or "14c recovery on liquidation".
We as unit holders have rights and protections under the Corporations Act.
Sect.601FJ prevents an RE from just walking away from a fund. It is not possible.
Sect.601NC states that if the RE moves to liquidate the fund, members have the right to call a members meeting and vote on any extraordinary resolutions members propose about the winding up of the scheme.
Look at the facts.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Under the Funds Constitution, unit holders have the ability to trade units between themselves. Quite a few unit holders indicated at the July forums (and on this thread) that they would be interested in purchasing other unit holders units and many others (who are desperate for their money back) indicated that they wanted to sell.
If JH was genuinely concerned about the plight of unit holders in desperate financial circumstances, and was genuinely committed to acting in their best interests, why have WC not provided unit holders with information to facilitate the process of transferring units between members.
She talks to the press about how the buy back scheme she proposes will give these desperate people 'a couple of grand' that they could really use. She didn't mention though that it would be paid sometime in the next 12 months.
If she did something about helping members transfer units between themselves, these people would have that couple of grand (and more) in their pockets NOW !!!!!
Under the Funds Constitution, unit holders have the ability to trade units between themselves. Quite a few unit holders indicated at the July forums (and on this thread) that they would be interested in purchasing other unit holders units and many others (who are desperate for their money back) indicated that they wanted to sell.
If JH was genuinely concerned about the plight of unit holders in desperate financial circumstances, and was genuinely committed to acting in their best interests, why have WC not provided unit holders with information to facilitate the process of transferring units between members.
She talks to the press about how the buy back scheme she proposes will give these desperate people 'a couple of grand' that they could really use. She didn't mention though that it would be paid sometime in the next 12 months.
If she did something about helping members transfer units between themselves, these people would have that couple of grand (and more) in their pockets NOW !!!!!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
WC will not be liquidating the fund, as such, they will be forced to sell existing assets to pay all redemptions by Mar2009 which is what will be forced on them by way of a n n n vote.They are not making any threats, simply complying by the rules if investors choose to take their estimated 14 cents per unit as opposed to the continuation of the PIF. Please state the alternative outcomes if there is in fact any.Undisclosed plans and opinions just won't convince me I am afraid. Surely with so much support out there from those willing to take unsubstanciated promises someone, anyone, must have something more than we can call a egm(at our own expense)to make some resolutions? Or maybe not.seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hmnnn, has the PIFI got a scheme organised to generate some up front cash to the unit holders in desperate financial circumstances. Or will they just have to wait 12 months or more to receive their estimated 14cents per unit full stop. They must have something up their sleeve to convince unit holders to forego the estimated distribution prior to xmas from WC. Perhaps their legal beagles have negotiated a really good deal with OCV which will deliver our long awaited support facility?Or not.Come on guys, anything, convince me, put up or shut up.Seamisty
- Joined
- 4 May 2008
- Posts
- 288
- Reactions
- 0
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Seamisty
I recon what they need is about 5,400 legal beagles who can vote for the current PIF resolutions, now that would the worth the $100.
Seamisty
I recon what they need is about 5,400 legal beagles who can vote for the current PIF resolutions, now that would the worth the $100.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Having the right to call an egm is a very important point, a point that a lot of people seem to be unaware of. This is the problem, people are believing you when you reinforce WC's position that our only choices are go with WC's NSX listing & other proposals, or take your 14c and that's it!
If the No vote succeeds, the only thing that WC will be "forced" to do is act upon the wishes of the unit holders, whether that be to change the constitution to extend the freeze on redemptions and keep the fund going; or whether it be to appoint an administrator to manage the fund; or whether it be to manage an orderly wind up of the fund. All these options (and more) are open to us. We are not restricted to WC's limited options.
It is not up to me or any other individual to decide what alternative option unit holders should support. It is up to ALL OF US to decide between ouselves what is best for all of us. The forums in July were suppose to give us the opportunity to express what we wanted, unfortunately WC ignored all concerns, suggestions and opposition to NSX listing expressed by unitholders.
There are some of us that will continue to fight to exercise our rights to explore, determine and enforce our alternative solutions for the fund.
In a famous quote my father & other elderly investors will relate to - "Now is not the End. It is not even the beginning of the end, but it is, perhaps, the end of the Beginning - Winston Churchill.
Having the right to call an egm is a very important point, a point that a lot of people seem to be unaware of. This is the problem, people are believing you when you reinforce WC's position that our only choices are go with WC's NSX listing & other proposals, or take your 14c and that's it!
If the No vote succeeds, the only thing that WC will be "forced" to do is act upon the wishes of the unit holders, whether that be to change the constitution to extend the freeze on redemptions and keep the fund going; or whether it be to appoint an administrator to manage the fund; or whether it be to manage an orderly wind up of the fund. All these options (and more) are open to us. We are not restricted to WC's limited options.
It is not up to me or any other individual to decide what alternative option unit holders should support. It is up to ALL OF US to decide between ouselves what is best for all of us. The forums in July were suppose to give us the opportunity to express what we wanted, unfortunately WC ignored all concerns, suggestions and opposition to NSX listing expressed by unitholders.
There are some of us that will continue to fight to exercise our rights to explore, determine and enforce our alternative solutions for the fund.
In a famous quote my father & other elderly investors will relate to - "Now is not the End. It is not even the beginning of the end, but it is, perhaps, the end of the Beginning - Winston Churchill.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Wish I could count the number of times you've quoted the famous "14c per unit" phrase. This is the one that really scares people isn't it.
Nothing has been said about foregoing distributions (another scare tactic).
PIFI wouldn't need a scheme to generate cash up front. As long as we keep our present constitution, unit holders are entitled to buy & sell units between themselvs.
Anyone wishing to either purchase or sell, I suggest they contact Perpetual Nominees on 1300 721 051, they should be able to help you with this. Obviously Wellington hasn't offered any help in this regard.
Wish I could count the number of times you've quoted the famous "14c per unit" phrase. This is the one that really scares people isn't it.
Nothing has been said about foregoing distributions (another scare tactic).
PIFI wouldn't need a scheme to generate cash up front. As long as we keep our present constitution, unit holders are entitled to buy & sell units between themselvs.
Anyone wishing to either purchase or sell, I suggest they contact Perpetual Nominees on 1300 721 051, they should be able to help you with this. Obviously Wellington hasn't offered any help in this regard.
- Joined
- 11 July 2008
- Posts
- 263
- Reactions
- 0
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
If he no vote gets up I will through a big party & you are all invited to come & that included you to Seamistey Cheers / Dane //
If he no vote gets up I will through a big party & you are all invited to come & that included you to Seamistey Cheers / Dane //
- Joined
- 11 July 2008
- Posts
- 263
- Reactions
- 0
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
If the Yes vote gets up WC can through the party But don't expert me there / Dane //
If the Yes vote gets up WC can through the party But don't expert me there / Dane //
- Joined
- 11 July 2008
- Posts
- 263
- Reactions
- 0
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi All There is a good read in the Gold Coast Bulletin today You can read it all on the web Enjoy your read Cheers / Dane //
Hi All There is a good read in the Gold Coast Bulletin today You can read it all on the web Enjoy your read Cheers / Dane //
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Seamisty,,, what impact do you think the GCB is going to make on the vote now?.....I did have a bit of hope of seeing some of my money back before this last weeks trouble.....@#$%!
Hi Seamisty,,, what impact do you think the GCB is going to make on the vote now?.....I did have a bit of hope of seeing some of my money back before this last weeks trouble.....@#$%!
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Mr Chapman said he believed 45c a unit could be achieved through an orderly sell-off of assets, giving investors the chance to retrieve more of their funds over a quicker timeframe, and he would like to see an independent responsible entity take over the task of doing so.:::: Unbelievable!!! Well I hardly think there is going to be a rush of unitholders willing to vote for LESS THAN HALF of their original investment do you? And the 45cent valuation was as a going concern. I would be wanting a refund on my $100 joining fee if thats the strategic plan. Seamisty
Good morning sugar3157, Well I think todays article just confirms what I have been saying, the PIFI are only concerned with winding up the Fund in the hope of possibly achieving a maximum return of 45 cents per unit!!!!Quote from the article:The fund is said to be valued at 45c a unit as a going concern.
Mr Chapman said he believed 45c a unit could be achieved through an orderly sell-off of assets, giving investors the chance to retrieve more of their funds over a quicker timeframe, and he would like to see an independent responsible entity take over the task of doing so.:::: Unbelievable!!! Well I hardly think there is going to be a rush of unitholders willing to vote for LESS THAN HALF of their original investment do you? And the 45cent valuation was as a going concern. I would be wanting a refund on my $100 joining fee if thats the strategic plan. Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
September 6th, 2008
ANGRY Premium Income Fund investors are confident they have the numbers to roll Wellington Capital's 'rescue' proposal which goes to a vote in less than two weeks.
Despite Wellington's founder Jenny Hutson revealing this week she had received 97 per cent support from more than 3000 votes counted, PIF Init-iative spokesman Dennis Chapman said large investors still had the numbers to crush the proposal.
The PIF Initiative, a group of investors lobbying against Wellington's plans through an internet campaign, is angry at Wellington's bid to abolish the original responsible entity of the fund -- set up by the defunct MFS (now Octaviar) -- and secure a hefty exit fee in the process.
It also opposes plans to list the fund on the National Stock Exchange.
Mr Chapman said Wellington does not appear to be acting in the best interests of the Premium Income Fund's (PIF) 10,300 investors, many of whom are elderly and have kissed goodbye to the $770 million they invested.
PIF Initiative has approached corporate watchdog, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, to investigate, although the nature of the investigation has not been disclosed.
ASIC yesterday declined to comment on specific cases.
PIF Initiative also has sought legal opinion as to whether Wellington Capital is acting in the best interests of investors.
Wellington Capital has called a meeting on the Gold Coast for September 18 to vote on three resolutions that are designed to keep the fund a going concern.
"A lot of people don't really understand the full ramifications of what (Ms Hutson) is trying to push through," said Mr Chapman.
"All we're after is a fair go."
Although 3000 votes have already been lodged, Mr Chapman yesterday described PIF Initiative's chances of getting remaining investors vote down the proposals as 'pretty good'.
"The top 3000 people will more than cover it," he said.
Wellington needs the backing of 75 per cent of units by value to proceed.
PIF Initiative is concerned on a number of fronts, including the 14c per unit valuation put forward by Wellington for a liquidation of the fund.
The fund is said to be valued at 45c a unit as a going concern.
Mr Chapman said he believed 45c a unit could be achieved through an orderly sell-off of assets, giving investors the chance to retrieve more of their funds over a quicker timeframe, and he would like to see an independent responsible entity take over the task of doing so.
Wellington Capital has estimated it will take three to five years to restore full value to investors.
"But a lot of these (investors) are elderly people," said Mr Chapman.
"Half of them won't be around in five years. That's the sad part."
Mr Chapman said a promised 3c distribution to investors by December was a major incentive being used by Wellington Capital.
But he said this would be a repayment of capital, rather than payment from profits.
It also would be a trigger for Wellington Capital to be paid ongoing management fees for the fund.
PIF Initiative is opposed to an NSX listing for the fund.
A rush of sellers is expected to push the price of units down to about 10c each, it said.
Mr Chapman said this would be the worst outcome for elderly investors who needed to sell immediately.
Mr Chapman, once a comfortable self-funded retiree, invested about $1.25 million in the failed MFS empire, with about $200,000 in PIF.
"I'm doing it tough like you wouldn't believe, but there are lot more people who are far worse off than me," he said.
The aritcle appears to have done a vanishing act! I will re post it:::::Wellington faces its WaterlooNick Nichols
September 6th, 2008
ANGRY Premium Income Fund investors are confident they have the numbers to roll Wellington Capital's 'rescue' proposal which goes to a vote in less than two weeks.
Despite Wellington's founder Jenny Hutson revealing this week she had received 97 per cent support from more than 3000 votes counted, PIF Init-iative spokesman Dennis Chapman said large investors still had the numbers to crush the proposal.
The PIF Initiative, a group of investors lobbying against Wellington's plans through an internet campaign, is angry at Wellington's bid to abolish the original responsible entity of the fund -- set up by the defunct MFS (now Octaviar) -- and secure a hefty exit fee in the process.
It also opposes plans to list the fund on the National Stock Exchange.
Mr Chapman said Wellington does not appear to be acting in the best interests of the Premium Income Fund's (PIF) 10,300 investors, many of whom are elderly and have kissed goodbye to the $770 million they invested.
PIF Initiative has approached corporate watchdog, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, to investigate, although the nature of the investigation has not been disclosed.
ASIC yesterday declined to comment on specific cases.
PIF Initiative also has sought legal opinion as to whether Wellington Capital is acting in the best interests of investors.
Wellington Capital has called a meeting on the Gold Coast for September 18 to vote on three resolutions that are designed to keep the fund a going concern.
"A lot of people don't really understand the full ramifications of what (Ms Hutson) is trying to push through," said Mr Chapman.
"All we're after is a fair go."
Although 3000 votes have already been lodged, Mr Chapman yesterday described PIF Initiative's chances of getting remaining investors vote down the proposals as 'pretty good'.
"The top 3000 people will more than cover it," he said.
Wellington needs the backing of 75 per cent of units by value to proceed.
PIF Initiative is concerned on a number of fronts, including the 14c per unit valuation put forward by Wellington for a liquidation of the fund.
The fund is said to be valued at 45c a unit as a going concern.
Mr Chapman said he believed 45c a unit could be achieved through an orderly sell-off of assets, giving investors the chance to retrieve more of their funds over a quicker timeframe, and he would like to see an independent responsible entity take over the task of doing so.
Wellington Capital has estimated it will take three to five years to restore full value to investors.
"But a lot of these (investors) are elderly people," said Mr Chapman.
"Half of them won't be around in five years. That's the sad part."
Mr Chapman said a promised 3c distribution to investors by December was a major incentive being used by Wellington Capital.
But he said this would be a repayment of capital, rather than payment from profits.
It also would be a trigger for Wellington Capital to be paid ongoing management fees for the fund.
PIF Initiative is opposed to an NSX listing for the fund.
A rush of sellers is expected to push the price of units down to about 10c each, it said.
Mr Chapman said this would be the worst outcome for elderly investors who needed to sell immediately.
Mr Chapman, once a comfortable self-funded retiree, invested about $1.25 million in the failed MFS empire, with about $200,000 in PIF.
"I'm doing it tough like you wouldn't believe, but there are lot more people who are far worse off than me," he said.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
We live in interesting times!
Rance
G'day Great Doom!
We live in interesting times!
Rance
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Listen all...she is in this to MAKE MONEY...of course...
what you all have to realise is...IF SHE MAKES MONEY...SO DO WE !!!!
I hope she makes a bundle...then so do WE...!!!
Wake up all you people and smell the roses...
Stuff reading all the small print...it just gives you a headache...
Talk about... the small poppy syndrome...ughhh
Listen all...she is in this to MAKE MONEY...of course...
what you all have to realise is...IF SHE MAKES MONEY...SO DO WE !!!!
I hope she makes a bundle...then so do WE...!!!
Wake up all you people and smell the roses...
Stuff reading all the small print...it just gives you a headache...
Talk about... the small poppy syndrome...ughhh
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
As has already been posted by Burned in great detail a range of options is available to investors by democratic choice once we have the right to determine our own future.
Continue the fund with another RE wind up the fund over a three or five year period or indeed any other sensible alternative that would benefit investors
A quick wind up over 6months would indeed probably achieve 45cents in comparison to what JH has been telling us the assets are worth 14 cents.
In any event the price range on the NSX that will almost certainly be in a range in my estimation of between 15 and 25 cents as long as we are forced to remain on that index
Then as has already been confirmed by Wellington Capital their will probably be a Capital raising and it will not make the slightest difference whether or not investors have the funds to participate.
The money will come from so called Sophisticated Investors or Institutions at a bargain basement price to what the assets are currently TRADING AT not the Net Tangible Asset value.This will further dilute the value of the Fund for existing shareholders.
I can assure investors that I personally am absolutely opposed to the sale of our assets at anything under fair value under any circumstances
Everybody with any common sense knows that good assets are like wine as they age and mature they gain value GPM, living and leisure and other assets in the PIF are trading at huge discounts to their NTA because of the Sub prime disaster in my opinion it would be foolhardy to even think of selling these assets until the property sector recovers.
Therefore I favor an orderly wind up this would be undertaken with another RE or manager over a flexible period with an advisory committee comprised of investors in the fund who have the most to lose and would intimately involved in any decision to sell
However as previously stated any decisions will be made transparently and openly by democratic choice
Not the misleading, deceptive and heavy handed tactics of fear and intimidation and that Jenny Hutson has employed to gain control of our Fund
As has already been posted by Burned in great detail a range of options is available to investors by democratic choice once we have the right to determine our own future.
Continue the fund with another RE wind up the fund over a three or five year period or indeed any other sensible alternative that would benefit investors
A quick wind up over 6months would indeed probably achieve 45cents in comparison to what JH has been telling us the assets are worth 14 cents.
In any event the price range on the NSX that will almost certainly be in a range in my estimation of between 15 and 25 cents as long as we are forced to remain on that index
Then as has already been confirmed by Wellington Capital their will probably be a Capital raising and it will not make the slightest difference whether or not investors have the funds to participate.
The money will come from so called Sophisticated Investors or Institutions at a bargain basement price to what the assets are currently TRADING AT not the Net Tangible Asset value.This will further dilute the value of the Fund for existing shareholders.
I can assure investors that I personally am absolutely opposed to the sale of our assets at anything under fair value under any circumstances
Everybody with any common sense knows that good assets are like wine as they age and mature they gain value GPM, living and leisure and other assets in the PIF are trading at huge discounts to their NTA because of the Sub prime disaster in my opinion it would be foolhardy to even think of selling these assets until the property sector recovers.
Therefore I favor an orderly wind up this would be undertaken with another RE or manager over a flexible period with an advisory committee comprised of investors in the fund who have the most to lose and would intimately involved in any decision to sell
However as previously stated any decisions will be made transparently and openly by democratic choice
Not the misleading, deceptive and heavy handed tactics of fear and intimidation and that Jenny Hutson has employed to gain control of our Fund
