Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JADEL representative of the PIF Initiative:

Is Dennis Chapman the President of or hold any position in your PIFI group ?

If So, by whose authority in the PIF Action Group did he make these announcements on behalf of the entire membership of the PIF Action Group?

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

To All

Just a general note on law. Acts of Australian Parliaments are only law until some body successfully challenges them in the High Court of Australia where they can be overturned because of errors or incorrect opinions/assumptions made by Govt Solicitors in framing the Bill. Solicitors only have opinions. Nobody is perfect. Even the High Court judges can err! You can appeal against their verdict! As the saying goes: "the law is an ass". It's all about what you can get away with.

(for the pedantic, that last sentence should read:
It's all about with what you can get away.)

Rance

Rance

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIF Holder

Of course you are not less important than other investors mate

Believe me if we could have written to all 10300 unit holders we would have done so

We are certainly more than prepared to email you our voting forms to your good self or anybody else on this Forum that requests one

I will not go into the full story with you here but am prepared to do so privately with you

Certain people reliably informed us that Jenny Hutson was prepared to offer us a fair and eqitable Redemption plan after the fund had stabilised over a three to five year period ,thinking and that JH would surely listen to what was a very reasonable plan to at least give older investors some of their money back at Net Tangible Asset value we pulled out of a crucial meeting with our Solicitor at the last minute several weeks prior to this date

What we got was an insult to the intelligence 5% or the first 10000 units
that is miniscule JH does not intend to make any compromises to anybody

Had that meeting taken place we would not be in a last ditch effort to inform investors of their democratic rights and the one sided plan that will almost certainly give JH control of the fund in perpetuity regardless of wether or not you vote no for option 3

Please understand that hidden in the Constitution is an amendment that is cunningly contrived to make it almost imposible to remove WC if you vote for option 1

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIF Holder

Of course you are not less important than other investors mate

Believe me if we could have written to all 10300 unit holders we would have done so

We are certainly more than prepared to email you our voting forms to your good self or anybody else on this Forum that requests one

I will not go into the full story with you here but am prepared to do so privately with you

Certain people reliably informed us that Jenny Hutson was prepared to offer us a fair and eqitable Redemption plan after the fund had stabilised over a three to five year period ,thinking and that JH would surely listen to what was a very reasonable plan to at least give older investors some of their money back at Net Tangible Asset value we pulled out of a crucial meeting with our Solicitor at the last minute several weeks prior to this date

What we got was an insult to the intelligence 5% or the first 10000 units
that is miniscule JH does not intend to make any compromises to anybody

Had that meeting taken place we would not be in a last ditch effort to inform investors of their democratic rights and the one sided plan that will almost certainly give JH control of the fund in perpetuity regardless of wether or not you vote no for option 3

Please understand that hidden in the Constitution is an amendment that is cunningly contrived to make it almost imposible to remove WC if you vote for option 1

I am not interested in the above clap-trap.

Did your PIFI group misrepresent the entire PIF AG membership in saying they were behind your press release to the AFR YES OR NO ???

If so are you going to make a retraction and make an apology?

Further, Is Dennis Chapman the president of the PIFI or does he hold any responsible position in that PIFI ??

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Breaker

Dennis Jackson is our media spokesman and on the PIFI committee

he is terminally ill with Emphysemia and short of breath

If he stated PIFI over the telephone with some journalist who has a deadline to write a story it may have been hard to hear

Please give it away mate and let everybody decide on the issues.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Is your PIFI group responsible for atributing the AFR article recommending PIF investors:

"reject the plan (from WC)..."

and "The Action Group is instead pushing for the fund...to conduct an orderly sale of assets.."

and "that all 3000 investors contacted by the PIF Action Group reject Ms Hutsons proposals, it could be enough to liquidate the fund..."

to the PIF Action Group - Yes! OR NO! ???

I am of the understanding that The Original PIF AG had no knowledge what so ever of this article and its contents which appears to have been submitted by the break away group QLD PIFI. The article in todays AFR ( the post with the attatched article seems to have vanished )appears to have been submitted with the deliberate intention of misleading Action Group members and the Public that it was sanctioned by the AG and NOT the QLD PIFI !!! They must be extremely insecure and lacking in numbers to try and recruit votes and create more confusion to the mostly elderly investors in the PIF by taking this underhand action. I am extremely dissapointed with whoever was resposible (or irresposible) I believe the original Action Groups intention was to form a united support facility committed to helping unit holders. If some of these members feel they would prefer to take a different path, or have another agenda, that is fine, they have that right, but not under the guise of the AG banner. Very sneaky and underhand in my opinion. Seamisty

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Breaker

Dennis Jackson is our media spokesman and on the PIFI committee

he is terminally ill with Emphysemia and short of breath

If he stated PIFI over the telephone with some journalist who has a deadline to write a story it may have been hard to hear

Please give it away mate and let everybody decide on the issues.

Gold Coast.com.au release says: " This comes despite rumblings from the PIF Initiative, an action group headed by Dennis Chapman, that investors are being 'bullied' into backing the proposals."

Is Dennis Chapman the "head" of the PIFI or not? If not, does he hold any position in the PIFI or not. If not is he a member of the PIFI?


Please confirm if Dennis Jackson is the one responsible for the article in the AFR or Dennis Chapman ?

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel,

The group is certainly organised - I'm not questioning that.
But I've heard that it costs money to join? Isn't that isolating the little people who can barely afford to buy their groceries, let alone pay out more money? Does PIFI just represent the top 3000 unitholders?
What I want to know is if I follow the Initiative's instructions and vote no - what is the alternative? Will I get a distribution before Christmas?

I just need to understand -
If I vote yes - I get Wellington, with all of its bumps and lumps
If I vote no - PIFI says PIF won't lqiuidate. If PIFI is right, then what do I get as the PIFI atlernative, and what if PIFI legal advise is wrong?

PIFHolder

PIFholder, I can assure that the QLD PIFI do not have the support or represent anything like 3000 unitholders, top or bottom of the list!!!!! They are in desperate need to swell their numbers to pay for any future legal representation and give them the numbers needed to force the Fund into liquidation. That is the ultimate aim of the QLD PIFI, to WIND UP THE PIF. I guess now it will be left up to a few AG members to bring out the bucket and mop and clean up this mess, or I could be entirely wrong and if the use of the AG banner was unintentional, then the QLD PIFI can get a retraction published. Either way, the media will have to be contacted to be made aware of this complete mis -representation of the AG. Seamisty

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Is your PIFI group responsible for atributing the AFR article recommending PIF investors:

"reject the plan (from WC)..."

and "The Action Group is instead pushing for the fund...to conduct an orderly sale of assets.."

and "that all 3000 investors contacted by the PIF Action Group reject Ms Hutsons proposals, it could be enough to liquidate the fund..."

to the PIF Action Group - Yes! OR NO! ???

Breaker i am speaking for my self not the PIFI Group realy i dont know what all the fuss is about What your saying its ok for WC to to write to the top investers but not OK for the PIFI that sounds a bit unfair to me You say it could Liquidate the fund I rather call it a controlled wind down over 2 to 3 years And yes you will still get your 3 cents B4 Xmas Relax its no big deal / Dane //

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Breaker i am speaking for my self not the PIFI Group realy i dont know what all the fuss is about What your saying its ok for WC to to write to the top investers but not OK for the PIFI that sounds a bit unfair to me You say it could Liquidate the fund I rather call it a controlled wind down over 2 to 3 years And yes you will still get your 3 cents B4 Xmas Relax its no big deal / Dane //

Who said WC contacted the top investors Dame.Where did you get your information? I was never contacted. Seamisty

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIFI 3000 members? Any contributor to this forum knows that this a ridiculously high figure! As a regular reader here, I knew very little about PIFI until yesterday. Pity about the legal document - it might have been useful to share it openly and to have commissioned it (earlier) in May.
In any case, PIFI had better get the AFR to fix the mentioned error immediately.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Breaker i am speaking for my self not the PIFI Group realy i dont know what all the fuss is about What your saying its ok for WC to to write to the top investers but not OK for the PIFI that sounds a bit unfair to me You say it could Liquidate the fund I rather call it a controlled wind down over 2 to 3 years And yes you will still get your 3 cents B4 Xmas Relax its no big deal / Dane //

??????

I have said nothing about the PIFI's right to contact anyone - I have said, they have NOT got the right as the PIFI to approach the MEDIA and represent themselves as the PIF Action Group without the consensus of the Action Group organisers or its' members.

I now seriously question your comprehensive ability of straight-forward posts on this site.

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIFI 3000 members? Any contributor to this forum knows that this a ridiculously high figure!
....

The article doesn't say PIFI has 3000 members.

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Breaker i am speaking for my self not the PIFI Group realy i dont know what all the fuss is about What your saying its ok for WC to to write to the top investers but not OK for the PIFI that sounds a bit unfair to me You say it could Liquidate the fund I rather call it a controlled wind down over 2 to 3 years And yes you will still get your 3 cents B4 Xmas Relax its no big deal / Dane //

How much money did you have to invest to be a (top investor)?...WC didn't contact me...!!!

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Gold Coast.com.au release says: " This comes despite rumblings from the PIF Initiative, an action group headed by Dennis Chapman, that investors are being 'bullied' into backing the proposals."

Is Dennis Chapman the "head" of the PIFI or not? If not, does he hold any position in the PIFI or not. If not is he a member of the PIFI?


Please confirm if Dennis Jackson is the one responsible for the article in the AFR or Dennis Chapman ?

JADEL

You haven't answered my questions above yet?

Further, is your PIFI group going to make a retraction with a profuse apology in the AFR and also on this ASF thread ???

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is directed to the PIFI

Let me make sure that I have got this right!

The PIFI want unit holder to vote No- No –No on the 18th for the following reasons:
Item 1 “to amend the constitution.” Vote “No” as there is a chance that the PIF will not have to be liquidated in a fire sale.
Question 1. On what do you base this “chance”?
Question 2. Ms. Hudson has a proven track record and a personal affinity with the PIF. Who do you have ready to step in, prepare a new constitution and call a meeting before the March deadline?
Question 3. I would like elaboration on the statement “Please understand that hidden in the Constitution is an amendment that is cunningly contrived to make it almost imposible(sic) to remove WC if you vote for option 1”
Item 2 “effect a buy-back of units”. Vote “No” because the buy-back proposal does not (a.) operate equally with regard to unit holders investment ratios, and (b.) appears designed to remove a considerable number of unit holders with small investments.
Question. Is this such a bad idea? The smaller investors are probably the ones who need their cash most urgently. If the buyback does result in a significantly less number of unit holders, there are then economies of scale from Wellington’s point of view, and fewer members to lobby from any Action Groups perspective.
Item 3 “replace the current responsible entity with Wellington Capital Limited.” I agree with a “no” vote. I can understand that Wellington would like to see some guarantee that their efforts are protected, but in effect this is similar to giving them 3 years redundancy pay.
I also note from my invitation to join the PIFI that I would have to agree that I would “comply fully with the requirements of the Association’s Rules”. However there is no mention of what those rules are!
Finally I would re-iterate, If it is a “No” vote, and the fund is liquidated, what do you intend to do with any dividends received? Spend it? Invest it at what? - 6 cents on 45 cents! Better that!!!!!
John H.

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

May I ask how responsible you yourselves as investors feel for the dismal results that Octaviar MFS has delivered for you.

ASF is a forum for people to learn from their successes as well as their failures.

Is there anything that you hapless folk could have done to avoid this catastrophe.

Please illuminate us.

gg

look at where we have got to! Hapless folk indeed! 1. Our investments in this fund were based on a PDS, MFS newletters and our naive trust in corporation laws....NEVER AGAIN! Until companies like MFS, City Pacific, Fincorp.....etc categorically promote first mortgages, stable LVRs, crystal clear related party transactions, with NO IFs, BUTs ( or a thousand overriding clauses in the back pages of the PDS )and comprehensive director profiles,we can NEVER invest in them again, we have LEARNT that companies can dissipate our investments (the honeypot) into their own agenda. 2.Jadel has got a real point....there are a lot of people in this fund who need liquidity, and the scenario for them is CRUEL, and it is IMMORAL that we, the victims of this disaster,now have to make what I am LEARNING is a very difficult choice! 3.There are so many facts that we do not know...e.g..what % really do need to get their $ out in a hurry? Why, all these months later, are we still divided about the value of the assets, and where should we look for the answers ? 4.We have LEARNT that ASICs role in these affairs is limited. We have still to LEARN when ASIC moves on these dilemmas.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I have heard there are many investors extremely upset with whoever released their personal details from the PIFI group. I know that it is a democratic right as an investor to request a copy of the unitholder register, but the PIFI has lost a lot of credibility by releasing those details without consent. I think this whole exercise is going to backfire on the QLD PIFI, some substantial holders have offered support to WC in the event of future media releases. Nothing short of a media retraction from the QLD PIFI is going to restore any kind of trust or credibility to their group. I also think they owe the unitholders an apology in regard to using their personal details from the register.Seamisty

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There is no benefit for PIFI to be incorrectly reported as an 'action group' as it makes the PIFI more difficult for like minded investors to locate and register with. It appears to be a reporting issue. As you will note 'action group' is in lower case which means it is not being quoted as the name of anything. Besides, 'PIF AG' is not owned or registered by anyone. If you have an issue with their reporting you should contact AFR in person.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There is no benefit for PIFI to be incorrectly reported as an 'action group' as it makes the PIFI more difficult for like minded investors to locate and register with. It appears to be a reporting issue. As you will note 'action group' is in lower case which means it is not being quoted as the name of anything. Besides, 'PIF AG' is not owned or registered by anyone. If you have an issue with their reporting you should contact AFR in person.

You have to assume responsibility for YOUR media releases!

What kind of buck passing spineless group are the PIFI?

A retraction with a profuse apology in AFR and on here!