Protecting Assets Without a Pre-Nup?

[Spanning Tree]

Hi, suppose I feel bad asking a woman for a pre-nup. I have thought of a way of protecting my assets without worry about a pre-nup. Firstly, I transfer all my assets to a family member, e.g. my mom, and then then apply to be a Power of Attorney for her assets so that I control her assets (which are really my assets). If there is a divorce then because my assets are under my mom's name, then everything is safe.

Would this work or not?

 

[cuttlefish]

Don't assume you won't have a falling out with a family member at some stage down the track, no matter how airtight you think your relationship with your mother/father/sister/brother is - there is a long life ahead and many things can ebb and flow and even change dramatically along the way.

 

[disarray]

setup a trust that you control and name family members or something beneficiaries.

 

[wildkactus]

Look into setting up a foundation to own your assets. (you can have a foundation as a for profit organisation) They are becoming a popular vehicle for asset protection.

But you really need to run this by a good lawyer that specializes in this field.

 

[white_goodman]

she cant take your money if shes dead, just sayin...

i guess the trick is not marrying a money hungry gold digging *****, or the family trust option sounds good

 

[Paladin]

Personally I should think that a formal agreement is far and away the easiest option. It seems more honest than going to all these lengths, and honesty is important between lovers, no? My partner and I signed a BFA recently to protect our assets both ways should things go amiss, and we're still putting candles on the table at dinner. It was no big deal at all, to be honest.

The tax department and the law are both well and truly onto the idea of 'gifting' assets in order to shelter them. Plus it's fraught. What if Mum remarries? You might not be the only one getting lucky. How does she then protect your assets - transfer them up the line to Gran? And how do we know Gran isn't massaging chocolate body butter into the wrinkly folds of some septuagenarian latino love muffin right now? I know I'm being silly, but Cuttlefish, as usual, is bang on.

By contrast, a Binding Financial Agreement ('prenups' are pretty useless, but BFAs - which can be taken out at any time - are not) between you and your darling is pretty darn simple and watertight. You never know - she might need to protect her hidden trillions from YOU.

 

[Julia]

I agree with Cuttlefish and Paladin. However well you might get on with your mother, it is invariably unwise to make this sort of intra-family arrangement. You simply can't know what could happen in the future.

Good to know you are thinking about protecting your assets. It's simply sensible.

Gorgeous to be all in love and full of trust. But, sadly, it can go sour for any number of reasons. I wish I'd had a BFA before marrying!

 

[Sean K]

It might be sensible to be trying to protect your assets, and I guess this is driven because you and your partner are not on an equal asset footing.

However, my first thought was that if you think you need a pre-nup you're not really in love and you should move on....eeeek!

Maybe watch Intolerable Cruelty with George and Catherine for some ideas.

 

[dutchie]

G'day Spanning Tree

Best move you will ever make - protecting your assets.

Love is fantastic - but people change and therefore the high ratio of divorce.

Statistically more men would have a bad/sour relationship with their wives than their mothers.

So yes transfer it to your mother.

(PS To all men - do something before its too late!!)

Cheers

dutchie

 

[Tysonboss1]

It all comes down to how you sell the idea to her,... The best way to sell it is to explain that if the worst happens and you have to break up you want to have a plan that you both aggree to, to help you divide the assets. Explain to her that it's not about about stopping her getting anything but more about having a plan to work to through what can be one of the most emotionally draining parts of your life, and explain to her that you think it will stop unessary fighting and help them to leave the relationship on better terms, hopefully still friends.

With a pre nup you have to build a win win aggreement that fairly divides the assets.

 

[pepperoni]

Id be up front about it although I know many that hide assets.

You can sign a "cohabitation agreement" before you live together. Its easy for both sides to understand at that stage. If marriage ever comes up you can sign a pre nup with identical terms. If not you can just cohabit under the cohabitation agreement.

Plus if its a simple "what we came in with we take out but what we jointly make is 50/50" I dont see a big prob. If its "we will keep everything separate forever and you dont get a cent on divorce" its another issue. I also dont think it good to go into who gets what access to kids as the law is good in this area.

If you have kids you are going to have to pay maintenance like everyone else though. And when you die the family provision act makes sure any kids are provided for.

But if you have many millions and you partner has $10,000 (I see this alot) the law doesnt seem to be able to fairly distibute assets so how can you not sign one?

And its a good way to manage expectations too ... some people think they can be married for 2 years and take half ha ha ... but with no kids they wont get anything anyway.

 

[nomore4s]

Hi, suppose I feel bad asking a woman for a pre-nup. I have thought of a way of protecting my assets without worry about a pre-nup. Firstly, I transfer all my assets to a family member, e.g. my mom, and then then apply to be a Power of Attorney for her assets so that I control her assets (which are really my assets). If there is a divorce then because my assets are under my mom's name, then everything is safe.

Would this work or not?

Wouldn't it just be easier to get her to sign a pre-nup?

Alot of work and expense(?) setting up a trust or whatever, and by doing so is probably not a good way to establish trust in the relationship especially if she ever finds out that you've done this behind her back.

Also a pre-nup can help put in place an agreement to split assets that are built up during the relationship, solving alot of other hassles.

If you have trouble talking to her about something like a pre-nup, my personal opinion is that you will run into trouble with the relationship sooner or later. Being upfront and honest is the best bet, if she has trouble with a pre-nup it will tell you alot.

i guess the trick is not marrying a money hungry gold digging *****, or the family trust option sounds good

lol, you obviously haven't been through a break up of a long term relationship where there is assets & emotion involved. People react strangely during an emotional break up and no matter what they are like before the break up can get very vindictive and petty.

 

[Paladin]

However, my first thought was that if you think you need a pre-nup you're not really in love and you should move on....eeeek!

Kennas - whoda thunk you were such a romantic? It must be the air in Lima

Actually, I really disagree with this. I'm 100% sure that my partner is 'the one' and she feels the same. That said, it's only sensible to come to an arrangement that protects each other's assets brought in to the relationship (even if in your heart of hearts you consider them shared) should something untoward happen. Much better to do so when you *are* in love and wanting to be fair and generous rather then, gods forbid, after the goodwill has gone.

Oh and Tree - this isn't a judgement at all, just a reflection, but personally I'd feel more morally conflicted about hiding assets than just being honest.

With the range of options available obviously formal legal advice is called for.

 

[slackjaw]

Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you dont trust? You can agree on an outcome but i think making legally binding arrangements cheapens the marriage, like you expect its going to end. Bottom line IMO is just marry the right girl, and then don't spend a thought on whether she would try to screw ya financially. That kind of thinking probably would cause it to end. Going around hiding assets or sneakily limiting her access to them... sounds like a paper thin marriage to me, sorry

 

[Sean K]

Kennas - whoda thunk you were such a romantic? It must be the air in Lima

Actually, I really disagree with this. I'm 100% sure that my partner is 'the one' and she feels the same. That said, it's only sensible to come to an arrangement that protects each other's assets brought in to the relationship (even if in your heart of hearts you consider them shared) should something untoward happen. Much better to do so when you *are* in love and wanting to be fair and generous rather then, gods forbid, after the goodwill has gone.

My logic agrees with your disagreement.

More than you know.

Perhaps the reason why it has worked for me and the much much better half is that we are were on a level playing ground when we met. It took the $$'s out of the equation.

 

[SM Junkie]

just marry the right girl

Don't we all hope we get it right when we do marry, unfortunately we do live in a disposable society and marriages can also become disposable when it all gets to hard.

Times have changed and where previous generations probably started marriage with little or no assets, this is not the case today, so therefore it is important to protect what you own and bring into the relationship.

I don't think it cheapens the marriage at all to have arrangements in place should separation occur. Most of us know our legal rights and will exercise these if we divorce, so why not both outline your expectations from the start. If she strongly opposes it then I guess it is a predecessor to what may happens should the relationship not work.

Personally I use a family trust and both my partner and I agreed from the start that we would provide a property for each other to live in and that all other assets will remain in trust for our children. It cost us under $500 to set up, but any legal arrangement will incur a fee.

It's great to see you thinking ahead because separation is never nice on either party and the more assets you have the nastier things seem to get.

 

[slackjaw]

marriages can also become disposable when it all gets to hard.

True they can, marriage isn't respected enough these days. I suppose it depends if you want a disposable Hollywood style marriage or if you really intend to give it all you've got.

 

[white_goodman]

lol, you obviously haven't been through a break up of a long term relationship where there is assets & emotion involved. People react strangely during an emotional break up and no matter what they are like before the break up can get very vindictive and petty.

im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing but im about as faithful as an aethiest during lent....

seen and heard too many bad stories to get married for atleast another 12 years

 

[Sean K]

im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing

Call me Grandpa....

eeeek!!

 

[white_goodman]

Call me Grandpa....

eeeek!!

hey pop