Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Protecting Assets Without a Pre-Nup?

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SM Junkie said:
Personally I use a family trust and both my partner and I agreed from the start that we would provide a property for each other to live in and that all other assets will remain in trust for our children. It cost us under $500 to set up, but any legal arrangement will incur a fee.
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Very sensible.

For those that say "oh I trust my partner" ... thats great until they leave with your 2 kids, and squander or get conned out of the money leaving all of you AND your kids with nothing ... very naive and short sighted to go without, esp if one of the parties has significant $$$ and wants to ensure any kids are looked after.

If you have nothing or very little then yes why bother with a pre nup ... its a bit different if one partner has many millions.

At worst it manages expectation and protects the marriage.
 
slackjaw said:
Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you dont trust? You can agree on an outcome but i think making legally binding arrangements cheapens the marriage, like you expect its going to end. Bottom line IMO is just marry the right girl, and then don't spend a thought on whether she would try to screw ya financially. That kind of thinking probably would cause it to end. Going around hiding assets or sneakily limiting her access to them... sounds like a paper thin marriage to me, sorry
Click to expand...


I agree 100%
 
Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist:

What am I doing wrong?
Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25-year-old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least [a] half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a businessman who makes average around 200 - 250K. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000K won’t get me to Central Park West. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?
Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms.
- What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings.
- Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the Upper East Side so plain? I’ve seen really “plain Jane” boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the East Village. What’s the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows — lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY.
Please hold your insults — I’m putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them — in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.


The response she got was as follows:
Dear Pers-431649184:

I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament. Firstly, I’m not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said, here’s how I see it:
Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here’s why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party, and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here’s the rub — your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity … in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won’t be getting any more beautiful!
So, in economic terms, you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain: you’re 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35, stick a fork in you!
So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold … hence the rub … marriage. It doesn’t make good business sense to “buy you” (which is what you’re asking) so I’d rather lease. In case you think I’m being cruel, I would say the following: if my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It’s as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.
Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So, I wonder why a girl as “articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful” as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe, if you are as gorgeous as you say you are, that the $500K hasn’t found you, if not only for a tryout. By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn’t need to have this difficult conversation.
With all that said, I must say you’re going about it the right way. Classic “pump and dump.” I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.
 
lol a great response. This ones a leech, but fortunately one you can spot a mile away. If one did marry her, sure its a pretty crappy business deal, but a deals a deal, so hand over the green.
 
white_goodman said:
im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing
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rotflmao

No offence but in about 10 years or so you will look back on this comment and realise how silly this sounds to some of the older members on this site.

What I actually meant in regards to a long term relationship was a live in or marriage type relationship with assets that had been aquired before & during that relationship and how hard it becomes to split those assets during a messy break up as both parties tend to become rather stubborn, vindictive and petty about even the most simple of things.

Having a plan (pre-nup) on how you will both deal with the break up if it happens is a good idea imo.
 
Just coming back to the original question of possibly transferring assets to the mother, another reason not to do this is that you simply cannot know what medical conditions might occur in an older family member as the years pass.

Sure, you might have a great relationship with mum now, but what if she were to develop Alzheimers and begin to view you as some evil person out to get her. It happens more often than you'd imagine.

And as far as those who have suggested if you really love the girl then you wouldn't be considering any formal agreement, I'd say, just get real!

I've never known anyone who didn't get married or enter into a formal living together relationship without feeling sure it was the love of their life.
But once the flush of hormones and the general novelty has worn off, and maybe job pressures take one or both partners' attention off the romance, then a lot can change quite quickly. Why else would we have one in three marriages ending in divorce?

I'd suggest that it's a measure of the maturity of a couple that they can face up to the reality of each of them protecting their assets. It's a bit like a Will or an Advance Health Directive: not much fun to think about, but once it's done then you can forget about it and get on with enjoying life, but if it's not done it will be an endless niggle at the back of your mind, possibly even preventing full participation in the relationship to he detriment of both.
 
haha

make sure you watch the film

Intolerable Cruelty - with Catherine Zeta Jones & George Clooney

Good luck with everything, Who knows maybe she has some secret inheritance and is actually richer than you! No pre-nup could be a good idea :)

Cheers

Banjo


We want Pre-nup
We want Pre-nup
Yeah
 
white_goodman said:
Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist:

What am I doing wrong?
Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25-year-old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least [a] half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a businessman who makes average around 200 - 250K. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000K won’t get me to Central Park West. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?
Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms.
- What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings.
- Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the Upper East Side so plain? I’ve seen really “plain Jane” boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the East Village. What’s the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows ”” lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY.
Please hold your insults ”” I’m putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them ”” in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.


The response she got was as follows:
Dear Pers-431649184:

I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament. Firstly, I’m not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said, here’s how I see it:
Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here’s why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party, and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here’s the rub ”” your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity … in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won’t be getting any more beautiful!
So, in economic terms, you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain: you’re 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35, stick a fork in you!
So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold … hence the rub … marriage. It doesn’t make good business sense to “buy you” (which is what you’re asking) so I’d rather lease. In case you think I’m being cruel, I would say the following: if my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It’s as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.
Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So, I wonder why a girl as “articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful” as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe, if you are as gorgeous as you say you are, that the $500K hasn’t found you, if not only for a tryout. By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn’t need to have this difficult conversation.
With all that said, I must say you’re going about it the right way. Classic “pump and dump.” I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.
Click to expand...


WOW. I know. This chick must have fallen out of the shallow bitch tree and hit every branch on the way down. I started to write a post talking about how shallow some women are. (And yes I know that there are shallow guys too.) But before I could bust out a Kansas-Nebraska-esque ass whuppin I noticed that someone else had beat me to it. Not only did this guy lay the smack down on this chick, but he did it using a Greg Mankiw microeconomics book: :eek:
 
Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist:

What am I doing wrong?
Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25-year-old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least [a] half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a businessman who makes average around 200 - 250K. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000K won’t get me to Central Park West. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?
Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms.
- What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings.
- Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the Upper East Side so plain? I’ve seen really “plain Jane” boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the East Village. What’s the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows — lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY.
Please hold your insults — I’m putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them — in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.
Click to expand...
Interesting story. It's easy to say, "Stay away from these women." However, this women is obviously not going to go up to a man and say, "I am a gold-digger. Give me your money." She is going to be more deceptive than that. How can you be certain that the woman you love is not really deceiving you? This is clearly an adverse selection problem. Someone needs to come up with gold-digger insurance. You pay a premium to the insurance provider and if you do happen to get a divorce, get the insurance firm to fund it.

Update: There is such thing as divorce insurance.
 
If a Doctor told you there was a 60% chance the Op would fail and a 80% you would get an infection what would you say.. they are the odds of a marriage working. I was married for 19 yr built a new home on the beach and 3 mths later she met a bloke who beat her up so she took of with him I could have done that but i didn't know she liked it. we lost about 2 M between us now both on the bones of our ass hence selling my house to get funds to try trading.
Marriages can fail in their 80's
Me I would open an account TELL NO ONE TELL NO ONE you have it.. pump as much as you can in to it and hope for thew best. if the marriage works when you retire you have a nest egg. don't have kids as CSA will take 18% plus of your income.
Its called pussy power the one with the pussy has the power. look at how many women get out of court cases over murder. Pre nups don't stand up in th Family court.
 
Thats excellent whitey.g

Always remember, if it f****, floats or flies its cheaper to rent it.

:D:D
 
All this talk about keeping money safe from gold-digging females makes me depressed. I would like to believe that there are females out there who value men for who they are rather than how fat their wallets are.

Is it naive for me to still cling to this romantic notion or should I just resign myself to the cynical idea that marriage is just another form of prostitution?

For any older, experienced men, give some advice to a young person like me.

Glen48 said:
If a Doctor told you there was a 60% chance the Op would fail and a 80% you would get an infection what would you say.. they are the odds of a marriage working. I was married for 19 yr built a new home on the beach and 3 mths later she met a bloke who beat her up so she took of with him I could have done that but i didn't know she liked it. we lost about 2 M between us now both on the bones of our ass hence selling my house to get funds to try trading.
Marriages can fail in their 80's
Me I would open an account TELL NO ONE TELL NO ONE you have it.. pump as much as you can in to it and hope for thew best. if the marriage works when you retire you have a nest egg. don't have kids as CSA will take 18% plus of your income.
Its called pussy power the one with the pussy has the power. look at how many women get out of court cases over murder. Pre nups don't stand up in th Family court.
Click to expand...
Did I read that right? She wanted to be beaten up?
 
Yer she loved the man so much he would lock her in cupboard and go hunting on a Saturday night in case the relationship fell over he was insanely jealous.
My ex like her Father was so mean with money she would tear up rags to save money on Tampons... so mean we lost about 2 M sold the beach house for 290 and it sold a few months ago for $800K.
Check out their parents and look for any signs even the things you think are funny could be a OCD her Father was mean he put in new carpet and would wait for the son to bring his Vacuum clean around sad part is my kids have got it as well just like some medical condition.
E mail and I will send you a test from Kings college which may help... but it won't show mood swings this is the biggest decision of you life bar none and it could cost you your life.
Hard as it is any sign walk away qnd keep looking its a real lucky dip and when they go they cost you 20-30 + years of savings and work.
Out of 5 kids (last one she decide to have a kid and not tell me ) only 1 talks to me the rest have NO emotions at all.
If they havent got a sense of Humour is a bad sign
 
Glen48 said:
Yer she loved the man so much he would lock her in cupboard and go hunting on a Saturday night in case the relationship fell over he was insanely jealous.
My ex like her Father was so mean with money she would tear up rags to save money on Tampons... so mean we lost about 2 M sold the beach house for 290 and it sold a few months ago for $800K.
Check out their parents and look for any signs even the things you think are funny could be a OCD her Father was mean he put in new carpet and would wait for the son to bring his Vacuum clean around sad part is my kids have got it as well just like some medical condition.
E mail and I will send you a test from Kings college which may help... but it won't show mood swings this is the biggest decision of you life bar none and it could cost you your life.
Hard as it is any sign walk away qnd keep looking its a real lucky dip and when they go they cost you 20-30 + years of savings and work.
Out of 5 kids (last one she decide to have a kid and not tell me ) only 1 talks to me the rest have NO emotions at all.
If they havent got a sense of Humour is a bad sign
Click to expand...

Gee so I'm not the only one to suffer at the hands of an OCD sufferer, I wont go into detail but it was hell right up to the point she cheated on me, I'm out of it now but it has effected my whole life. Kids are ok thank goodness.

Yes think with your head not your c**k, it is the biggest decision you'll ever make I wish you well, put your assets in a Trust, see a lawyer.
 
MrBurns said:
Gee so I'm not the only one to suffer at the hands of an OCD sufferer, I wont go into detail but it was hell right up to the point she cheated on me, I'm out of it now but it has effected my whole life. Kids are ok thank goodness.

Yes think with your head not your c**k, it is the biggest decision you'll ever make I wish you well, put your assets in a Trust, see a lawyer.
Click to expand...

Trusts dont work and have tax implications (eg PPOR in trust pays CGT).

Get a pre nup like I said. Start early with a cohabitation agreement if you decide to move in together.

$200 each for solicitors certificates and thats it.

AND ITS NOT ABOUT GOLD DIGGERS ... she will take her generous legal entitlement as she should if she leaves. But the law really is an ass in this area ... With a prenup you can make sure what you each take is fair.
 

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