Humans: Good or bad?

[noirua]

Know matter how good a person is, certain situations, can bring out the black side in everyone ?

 

[Sean K]

Yep, and I think the black side is actually there for a reason. Without those angry, violent, hateful, vengeful, jealous traits, perhaps we wouldn't have survived the dinosaurs...

 

[wayneL]

Know matter how good a person is, certain situations, can bring out the black side in everyone ?

...and diabolical spelling/grammar. :

 

[tech/a]

Yep, and I think the black side is actually there for a reason. Without those angry, violent, hateful, vengeful, jealous traits, perhaps we wouldn't have survived the dinosaurs...

Nah

Think it had more to do with an asteriod!
Without it you'd have been trading alongside TREX.

 

[Sean K]

Nah

Think it had more to do with an asteriod!
Without it you'd have been trading alongside TREX.

LOL, you might be right.

Wonder how we survived the asteroid?

 

[tech/a]

We didnt.
We came along after.

 

[Sean K]

We didnt.
We came along after.

Ah, roger. I thought cave men hunted wooley mammoths though? And, I'm sure that movie 10000BC had sabre toothes in it. That was a true story wasn't it?

Are we off topic yet?

 

[jonojpsg]

Ah, roger. I thought cave men hunted wooley mammoths though? And, I'm sure that movie 10000BC had sabre toothes in it. That was a true story wasn't it?

Are we off topic yet?

Getting there, but while we're still off, woolly mammoths and sabre tooths aren't dinosaurs kennas!

 

[Duckman#72]

There is certainly a lot of 'good' out there, but geeesh, sometimes I just think we're just a pack of wild animals fighting for our own survival.

You will have to offer a bit more than a murder on a bus before you convince me that we are "a pack of wild animals".

Have a look at your sample size and the example you have chosen. To make your point you have focused on one bizarre story of evil. On the same day as this poor bloke was being beheaded, there were possibly 200,000,000 acts of kindness (helping an elderly lady with a shopping bag, opening a door for someone, taking the neighbours washing in out of the rain, offering to drive someone to the Doctors). You just don't see them on the net.

As a matter of fact we see a much greater portion of the world's evil via the media, than we do the world's acts of kindness, thereby leading us to reflect and ponder about why the world is so evil.

Which brings a whole lot of other questions - does evil and goodness have to exist in equilibrium? For every act of evil is there an act of kindness? Can an "extremely nice" person be as effective at being "nice" as an "extremely evil" person is at being "evil"? Does 1 really evil person equate to 100 fairly nice people? To me evil/goodness cannot exist in the world at a rate of 50/50.

Getting back to your strange story I haven't heard of it, but who was on the bus? Was it a bus full of primarily elderly day shoppers, school kids, reserve army cadets, holiday makers, football team?// You are suggesting the 47 people are a reflection of society....do they accurately represent that? Anyway what is the exact protocol for handling that situation?

Duckman

 

[Wysiwyg]

Which brings a whole lot of other questions - does evil and goodness have to exist in equilibrium? For every act of evil is there an act of kindness? Can an "extremely nice" person be as effective at being "nice" as an "extremely evil" person is at being "evil"? Does 1 really evil person equate to 100 fairly nice people? To me evil/goodness cannot exist in the world at a rate of 50/50Duckman

That is easy to answer.If there were no bad, good could not be defined.So to know good we compare it to bad.Save a life versus take a life.There are laws to curb the natural desire to kill or hurt.

I would have prefered the mind to be hardwired to do only good but combining instinctive/survival mechanisms with thought/thinking/words does not allow this.
Population would grow at astronomical rates if everyone was good (questionable ??) and this is probably the reason why we have to kill each other, degrade each other and generally be nasty to one another to keep the balance of numbers.No balance = no nature.

 

[Duckman#72]

That is easy to answer.If there were no bad, good could not be defined.So to know good we compare it to bad.Save a life versus take a life.There are laws to curb the natural desire to kill or hurt.

I would have prefered the mind to be hardwired to do only good but combining instinctive/survival mechanisms with thought/thinking/words does not allow this.
Population would grow at astronomical rates if everyone was good (questionable ??) and this is probably the reason why we have to kill each other, degrade each other and generally be nasty to one another to keep the balance of numbers.No balance = no nature.

I don't think it is that easy Wysiwyg. I am not questioning the existence of good and evil - nor am I interested in defining how we see good or bad.

With regard to your comment..."There are laws to curb the natural desire to kill or hurt". Please don't tell me it is your NATURAL DESIRE to kill or hurt??!! Other than psychopaths who has that natural desire??

Also - if we are in equilibrium why are we headed for a food shortage? Why isn't global wealth spread to more people? Why are such a small population of the world reasonably comfortable at the expense of many others? What sort of balance do you think we have?

Duckman

 

[Wysiwyg]

With regard to your comment..."There are laws to curb the natural desire to kill or hurt". Please don't tell me it is your NATURAL DESIRE to kill or hurt??!! Other than psychopaths who has that natural desire??

When faced with an attacker or aggression my immediate reaction is to immobilise the threat or inflict hurt.At this point I stop and consider the ramifications and also, if necessary, the amount of pain i need to inflict to subdue the threat.I feel fear at this point too.
The deciding factors are, would i lose my job, would i be imprisoned, would my body become damaged by engaging, embarrassment from being involved in such incidents, would the situation become worse.I learned not to turn my back at an early age and am passive of personality.What would you do when faced with an attacker????

Also - if we are in equilibrium why are we headed for a food shortage? Why isn't global wealth spread to more people? Why are such a small population of the world reasonably comfortable at the expense of many others? What sort of balance do you think we have?
Duckman

Money and what is done with it i suppose.On the close up humans aren`t real balanced in my understanding of nature but in the bigger picture, as a species we will come and go.

 

[MRC & Co]

What is equilibrium? Species have been going extinct since the beginning of 'time'. We have just sped up that process I believe

Wooly Mammoths dinosaurs? LOL. I think our biggest foe was the saber tooth tiger when humans discovered the Americas, but even that didn't last long with our newly developed spears and their flight rather than fight nature.

Back to the topic, I am still getting shivers from that post Kennas. Boggles my mind how somebody could do such a thing. Anger, jealousy etc must help us survive in some way right? If not, wouldn't that be a contradiction of evolution

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Humans are a paradox.

One person does good, another person does bad.

Confusing.

no confusion. this bloke was on ice or he was mad.

gg

 

[wayneL]

no confusion. this bloke was on ice or he was mad.

gg

I was speaking in generalities.

Drug abuse or metal instabilities aside:

One father abuses his children, the other doesn't.
One person steals, another person gives.
One person stops to help, another laughs at your plight.
One person shoots endangered species, another person tries to save it.
One person admires my garden, another chucks rubbish in it.
etc etc.

Why? Dunno. It's a paradox.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I was speaking in generalities.

Drug abuse or metal instabilities aside:

One father abuses his children, the other doesn't.
One person steals, another person gives.
One person stops to help, another laughs at your plight.
One person shoots endangered species, another person tries to save it.
One person admires my garden, another chucks rubbish in it.
etc etc.

Why? Dunno. It's a paradox.

its the old ponderoso

genes, experience, chemicals and blunt trauma to the brain maketh a difference.
"A dda s uitable qu ote Lev.123.xxx

I'd put my money on ice.

gg

 

[Wysiwyg]

Bad has extremes as the incident shows.From stealing someones shoes to doing this there is a sliding scale of acceptance.Both are crimes yet one involves taking a life and that is the unacceptable bit, according to the social structure in present time.

Jack the Ripper was an equally unacceptable being and as we look for reason or motive behind the killings it probably had something to do with hating prostitutes for a reason.

Jack the Ripper

The victims were women allegedly earning income as prostitutes. The murders were perpetrated in public or semi-public places at night or towards the early morning. The victim's throat was cut, after which the body was mutilated. Theories suggest the victims were first strangled in order to silence them, which also explained the reported lack of blood at the crime scenes. The removal of internal organs from three of the victims led some officials at the time of the murders to propose that the killer possessed anatomical or surgical knowledge.

So motives or reasoning is how we come to understand why other people are bad.GG i think these abilities are in everyone but the readiness or desperation to do real bad is curbed by the laws.Hence introducing the laws changes desires to do these things.If they didn`t then there would be no law needed.These barriers can be overcome in the heat of a moment too.

 

[Sean K]

You will have to offer a bit more than a murder on a bus before you convince me that we are "a pack of wild animals".

Have a look at your sample size and the example you have chosen. To make your point you have focused on one bizarre story of evil. On the same day as this poor bloke was being beheaded, there were possibly 200,000,000 acts of kindness (helping an elderly lady with a shopping bag, opening a door for someone, taking the neighbours washing in out of the rain, offering to drive someone to the Doctors). You just don't see them on the net.

You're right Duckman, I wonder what the 'good' equivalent is to hacking someone's head off and then dinning on them?

Helping a granny across the road?

Hmmm, perhaps not.

Maybe all those volunteer NGOs giving their lives to save others could be up there? Although, I actually think they're all in it for themselves.

OK, other examples that need a 'good' equivalent to set the balance:

The Holocaust (9-11m killed)
Rwandan Genocide (800K killed)
Indonesian Communist purge of 1965 (500K killed)
Hiroshima and Nagasaki (200K civilians killed - yes, could have prevented more)
The Spanish Inquisition (lots killed, but torture was the main game)
The Crusades (heaps - both ways)
Leigh Matthews hit on Nevil Bruns
Darfur - could be up to anything by the time the Paper Tiger gets off it's @rse!

I'm sure I could go on.

Any 'good' deeds to set the balance?


Maybe these events in history don't mean we are a pack of wild animals, but something else.

Maybe we're just human. eeek!

 

[Julia]

i think these abilities are in everyone but the readiness or desperation to do real bad is curbed by the laws.

I can't agree with this. It doesn't take a law against murder for most of us to have no urge to kill - or even hurt - another human being.
Ditto any other antisocial behaviour.

 

[Knobby22]

I agree, Julia. The media makes murder appear more common and reasonable an alternative and people can sometimes justify their actions in this light.

I believe that most people inside their heads, think they are good and when they do something bad they justify with a reason like ... I have to look after myself or he has had the silver spoon from birth and I deserve some of his stuff, or insurance will cover it or society's bad behaviour justifies my behaviour etc.