Charlton Heston Dead at 84

[vida]

Gun laws don't stop career criminals who kill people, but enable the courts to punish them if they get caught breaking the laws. Like most other laws, they don't always work as a deterrent but enable people to be charged etc when and if caught doing wrong according to the law. However, our gun laws do prevent a lot of criminal deaths occuring I am certain, as there is a level of every day violence out there and fatalities would be higher if everyone carried a gun. Mr Heston was definitely wrong and I don't understand his condoning guns for everyone. Not all criminals Metric, are noncaring and out to kill anyone but it happens and a handy gun can turn an unusually angry man who never did anything wrong into a murdering criminal instantly. Strict gun laws can prevent a lot of deaths and terrible injuries in ordinary people's lives especially where alcohol is concerned a gun nearby can turn an argument in a family or between friends into a terrible permanent tragedy for many

criminals dont care about your civil rights.....or gun laws..! how do gun laws stop crimminals?

 

[Pronto]

One of the little known facts on the possibility of a Japanese invasion of Australia in WWII was that the Japanese General Staff noted in their military appreciation that they would be facing an armed civilian population. This was thought to be one of the reasons why the invasion never took place.

Most country Australians and many city dwellers in those days were experienced and comfortable with firearms. As a mere School Cadet in the 1950's we could occasionally take our .303 rifles home with us (on the school bus!) and practice shooting under adult supervision on one of the many rifle ranges that were then available.

How things have changed. I occasionally wonder, in this allegedly more enlightened age, how the average householder might protect their property and person in the event of a breakdown in the civil order.

Chuck Heston may have been over the top on this subject but surely there is a happy medium somewhere in gun ownership.

 

[metric]

Gun laws don't stop career criminals who kill people, but enable the courts to punish them if they get caught breaking the laws. Like most other laws, they don't always work as a deterrent but enable people to be charged etc when and if caught doing wrong according to the law. However, our gun laws do prevent a lot of criminal deaths occuring I am certain, as there is a level of every day violence out there and fatalities would be higher if everyone carried a gun. Mr Heston was definitely wrong and I don't understand his condoning guns for everyone. Not all criminals Metric, are noncaring and out to kill anyone but it happens and a handy gun can turn an unusually angry man who never did anything wrong into a murdering criminal instantly. Strict gun laws can prevent a lot of deaths and terrible injuries in ordinary people's lives especially where alcohol is concerned a gun nearby can turn an argument in a family or between friends into a terrible permanent tragedy for many

when was the last time you saw an armed bank robber, murderer etc, charged with gun offences? they rarely do. why? dont ask me.

and alcohol is (still) a bigger social problem and killer than guns ever were. and alcohol trading times are extending, companies are targeting kids with "soft drink/milk" alcoholic drinks, etc, etc.

the government is scared of the public, not guns.

 

[Prospector]

criminals dont care about your civil rights.....or gun laws..! how do gun laws stop crimminals?

That wasnt my point. TB said that Heston upheld civil rights. Other than the right to hold guns, I would like to know what these are.

Gun laws dont stop criminals, but the extinguishing the mental mindset about guns that people such as Heston promoted, may stop teenagers using guns as a means of acting out their frustrations on society, and the accidental discharge of guns found in around 40% of homes in the US resulting in death. Over half of all suicides in the US are by guns, as well as the majority of murders.

There are an average of 9 deaths a day in the US for CHILDREN as the result of guns! 2,500 kids aged under 14 were injured by guns in 1 year. A staggering 30,000 people under 24 were injured by guns in 1 year. In Australia we would be looking at, well, 1 would make headlines for a day!

Chuck Heston may have been over the top on this subject but surely there is a happy medium somewhere in gun ownership.

When you make something socially acceptable, then that is a problem.

Guns are not the only problem, but mix guns and the US society and that is a fatal mix. Germany, Canada and most European countries have a similarly high rate of gun ownership, but they are not culturally angry and culturally aggressive.
There is just something messed up with US society that creates the combustion.

 

[metric]

also, just a thought on citizens owning guns.

if 911 was either committed, or allowed to be committed, by the us gov (or a group within), how does that reflect on the right those now in power have to be there? if it is true, and 911 was staged officially, for the purpose of taking away civil liberties, changing laws, invading countries, etc, is it a good thing us citizens own guns?

 

[Prospector]

also, just a thought on citizens owning guns.

if 911 was either committed, or allowed to be committed, by the us gov (or a group within), how does that reflect on the right those now in power have to be there? if it is true, and 911 was staged officially, for the purpose of taking away civil liberties, changing laws, invading countries, etc, is it a good thing us citizens own guns?

Chasers would be proud of that segue!

 

[dutchie]

"There is just something messed up with US society that creates the combustion"

Yes, spot on there Prospector - too much money!

 

[Pronto]

Prospector said:

Guns are not the only problem, but mix guns and the US society and that is a fatal mix. Germany, Canada and most European countries have a similarly high rate of gun ownership, but they are not culturally angry and culturally aggressive.

I think that is an excellent point. The status quo here was also satisfactory until Martin Bryant went amok. It was ironic that all States restricted the sale and ownership of automatic and semi-automatic military-style weapons, with the sole exception of Tasmania. The Tasmanian government had been warned only a short time earlier that a disaster was possible.

In the event, Bryant, who - if not mad - was at least wired-up incorrectly had access to money and an M16 to go on his killing spree. John Howard, in his early days as PM, over-reacted on knee jerk advice.

 

[wayneL]

Prospector said:


I think that is an excellent point. The status quo here was also satisfactory until Martin Bryant went amok. It was ironic that all States restricted the sale and ownership of automatic and semi-automatic military-style weapons, with the sole exception of Tasmania. The Tasmanian government had been warned only a short time earlier that a disaster was possible.

In the event, Bryant, who - if not mad - was at least wired-up incorrectly had access to money and an M16 to go on his killing spree. John Howard, in his early days as PM, over-reacted on knee jerk advice.

Anybody like a good conspiracy theory?

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/conspiracy/parthur1.html

NB Submitted without comment or opinion, just FYI.

 

[chops_a_must]

I didnt go much on his gun lobby career,but i dont think its the time to start bagging the guy out as he was a strong civil rights activist as well...

Why should death change your opinion towards someone?

It made me laugh when Reagan died, and people who hated him with a passion began singing his praises.

He seemed to reneg on a lot of civil rights movements he had been a part of, to become a far right winger, so I don't buy that.

Just more reason why people over the age of seventy should not be allowed to hold positions of power and influence, if not lethally injected and done with it.

 

[Julia]

Just more reason why people over the age of seventy should not be allowed to hold positions of power and influence, if not lethally injected and done with it.

How charming! You, of course, Chops, will never become old.
May the years preserve your arrogance.

 

[chops_a_must]

How charming! You, of course, Chops, will never become old.
May the years preserve your arrogance.

Me? No!!!!

And of course, I never say things like this to get people to bite, do I? Never...

 

[2020hindsight]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlton_Heston

"take the rifle?
from these cold dead hands"?

I guess now you can do what he suggested. Hopefully America moves on from this attitude

According to his autobiography In the Arena, Heston recognized the right of freedom of speech exercised by others. In a 1997 speech, he rhetorically deplored a culture war he said was being conducted by a generation of media, educators, entertainers, and politicians against:

"...the God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle- class Protestant-or even worse, evangelical Christian, Midwestern or Southern- or even worse, rural, apparently straight-or even worse, admitted heterosexuals, gun-owning-or even worse, NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff-or even worse, male working stiff-because, not only don’t you count, you are a down-right obstacle to social progress. Your voice deserves a lower decibel level, your opinion is less enlightened, your media access is insignificant, and frankly, mister, you need to wake up, wise up, and learn a little something from your new-America and until you do, would you mind shutting up?"[20]

In an address to students at Harvard Law School entitled Winning the Cultural War, Heston said, "If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys - subjects bound to the British crown."[21] He went on to say that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride. He later stated, "Political correctness is tyranny with manners."[22]

Heston was the president and spokesman of the NRA from 1998 until he resigned in 2003. At the 2000 NRA convention, he raised a rifle over his head and declared that the Bill Clinton administration would take away his Second Amendment rights "from my cold, dead hands."[23] In announcing his resignation in 2003, he again raised a rifle over his head, repeating the five famous words of his 2000 speech.[23] He was an honorary life member.[24][25]

In the 2002 documentary film Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore interviewed Heston in his home, asking him about an April, 1999 NRA meeting shortly after the Columbine high school massacre, held in Denver, Colorado. Moore criticized Heston for the perceived thoughtlessness in the timing and location of the meeting. Heston, on-camera, excused himself and walked out. Moore was later criticized for his perceived ambush of the actor.[26][27][28]

Actor George Clooney joked about Heston having Alzheimer's Disease. When questioned, Clooney said Heston deserved whatever was said about him for his involvement with the NRA.[29] Heston responded by saying Clooney lacked "class," and said he felt sorry for Clooney, as Clooney had as much of a chance of developing Alzheimer's as anyone else.[30]

 

[vida]

Girl, three, shoots herself in the head
Monday Apr 7 17:00 AEST
By ninemsn staff

A three-year-old US girl has shot herself in the head after finding a gun in her parent's bedroom.

The girl fired the gun to the right side of her head and is in a critical condition, The Associated Press reports.

The gun belonged to one of the girl's parents and police have questioned the pair.

Detroit Police Deputy Chief James Tate said the girl found the gun about 2:30 pm and one of her parents was home during the shooting.

*********************************************
I wonder what Mr Heston would say about that, probably: "the girl had a right to own a firearm and if her parents had allowed her to have her own and trained her to use it she would not have been hurt in this way".

 

[wayneL]

Girl, three, shoots herself in the head
Monday Apr 7 17:00 AEST
By ninemsn staff

A three-year-old US girl has shot herself in the head after finding a gun in her parent's bedroom.

The girl fired the gun to the right side of her head and is in a critical condition, The Associated Press reports.

The gun belonged to one of the girl's parents and police have questioned the pair.

Detroit Police Deputy Chief James Tate said the girl found the gun about 2:30 pm and one of her parents was home during the shooting.

*********************************************
I wonder what Mr Heston would say about that, probably: "the girl had a right to own a firearm and if her parents had allowed her to have her own and trained her to use it she would not have been hurt in this way".

Discussion around guns, like drugs, tends to be very emotive.

Would this be news if the little girl had hurt herself with a kitchen knife, an electric saw, or a bottle of rat poison?

I'm not pro guns, nor anti, but this would seem to an issue of security of a potentially dangerous item and parental responsibilty, rather than gun ownership/kitchen knife ownership/electric saw/ rat poison/whatever per se.

Just looking from a different angle.

 

[vida]

Yes it probably could still be news if she took poison lying around. The fact is that guns around the house can cause more serious injuries and fatalities than most other things. The girl would probably not plunge a knife into her own body but playing with a gun anything can happen.

Discussion around guns, like drugs, tends to be very emotive.

Would this be news if the little girl had hurt herself with a kitchen knife, an electric saw, or a bottle of rat poison?

I'm not pro guns, nor anti, but this would seem to an issue of security of a potentially dangerous item and parental responsibilty, rather than gun ownership/kitchen knife ownership/electric saw/ rat poison/whatever per se.

Just looking from a different angle.

 

[Prospector]

The fact is that guns around the house can cause more serious injuries and fatalities than most other things. .

And that guns can take out more people, at a greater distance, faster, than any other hand weapon can. Unless taken by surprise, you stand a far greater chance of surviving a knife attack than a gun anytime!

 

[dalek]

Chuck Heston's career represented a significant part of cinematic history but unfortunately his later choice to represent the NRA was poorly conceived, and perhaps his judgement was clouded by a need for another audience or the possibility of a political career in his twilight years, who knows.
The NRA, as we know, has extraordinary power in USA and it would be easy to see them filling CH head with all matter of rubbish to get his endorsement.

Remember guns have only one purpose and function, to kill/maim unlike many other household things that can become dangerous if used incorrectly.

There is not much doubt in my mind that the subsequent gun controls and buyback precipitated by the Tasmanian tragedy was overdue.
NOBODY needs an assault rifle,automatic weapon or .44 magnum in their home and prior to the regulatory changes, with minimal fuss and effort, I could buy any one of those.

 

[metric]

Chuck Heston's career represented a significant part of cinematic history but unfortunately his later choice to represent the NRA was poorly conceived, and perhaps his judgement was clouded by a need for another audience or the possibility of a political career in his twilight years, who knows.
The NRA, as we know, has extraordinary power in USA and it would be easy to see them filling CH head with all matter of rubbish to get his endorsement.

Remember guns have only one purpose and function, to kill/maim unlike many other household things that can become dangerous if used incorrectly.

There is not much doubt in my mind that the subsequent gun controls and buyback precipitated by the Tasmanian tragedy was overdue.
NOBODY needs an assault rifle,automatic weapon or .44 magnum in their home and prior to the regulatory changes, with minimal fuss and effort, I could buy any one of those.

with minnimal fuss i could buy them now. and they would never be licenced, or under any sembleance of control. thats what wrong with the laws. THEY DONT STOP CRIMMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just the law abiding.

 

[Prospector]

with minnimal fuss i could buy them now. and they would never be licenced, or under any sembleance of control. thats what wrong with the laws. THEY DONT STOP CRIMMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just the law abiding.

Heston's mind set makes having guns a right not something a farmer might need as necessity. As said before, it is the mix that is prevalent in US culture that is the problem. And if law abiding people have guns, then we have the issue (refer earlier post) of accidental shootings.