Why are we saying 'sorry' to the aboriginals?!

[bunyip]

I don't know what the path forward is but imo it doesn't change that the wrongs of the past should be acknowledged.

John Howard not only publicly acknowledged the wrongs of the past, he also expressed deep regret that they occurred.
However, he quite rightly believed that the present generation of white Australians are not responsible for those wrongs, and therefore should not say sorry for something in which they played no part.
Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

[cuttlefish]

If in 1955 the government had blasted private fred bloggins the third with nuclear radiation as part of experiments, and his offspring were now suffering the horror of living without eyeballs, I have no doubt that john howard wouldn't have hesitated to offer an apology for the governments actions and accept any compensation award that was handed down via the judicial system.

Or maybe he would have just expressed 'regret' that this occured and blamed his predecessors.

 

[bunyip]

If in 1955 the government had blasted private fred bloggins the third with nuclear radiation as part of experiments, and his offspring were now suffering the horror of living without eyeballs, I have no doubt that john howard wouldn't have hesitated to offer an apology for the governments actions and accept any compensation award that was handed down via the judicial system.

Or maybe he would have just expressed 'regret' that this occured and blamed his predecessors.

I won't waste my time in speculating about what he would have done in relation to the nuclear radiation issue.

You said that the wrongs of the past should be acknowledged. I'm telling you that John Howard did just that. He acknowledged them and he expressed regret that they occurred.

 

[Edwood]

just read the text of Mr Rudd's apology for today - a small step but an important step. Its great to see there are some decent Aussies around - top effort

 

[Edwood]

I've logged on this evening to this thread expecting to see heaps of comments on the actual content of the "Sorry Statement" as detailed on the 7.30 Report this evening and also included in ABC Radio News.

Nothing from anyone!!

After all the anticipation and anxiety?

Why?

Hasn't anyone heard it? Or is it just so great that it doesn't require comment?
Or so awful that those who don't want it can't bring themselves to contemplate it?

well that tells us all something eh Julia? perhaps the heat in Australia explains all the red necks

 

[cuttlefish]

I won't waste my time in speculating about what he would have done in relation to the nuclear radiation issue.

You said that the wrongs of the past should be acknowledged. I'm telling you that John Howard did just that. He acknowledged them and he expressed regret that they occurred.

Well regardless of his intent, which I can't speculate on, the practical reality is that by not saying sorry and adamantly refusing to do so, his expression of regret was perceived by the majority of the community including the aboriginal community as a 'claytons' expression of sorrow rather than a genuine one.

I suspect today's actions may also fall a little short due to the lack of unambiguous bi-partisan support which is a pity.

 

[agro]

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies. We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise. We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed. We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes. We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts. We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before. We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain. We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments . We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral. We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay. We apologise for giving you interest free loans. We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value. We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money. We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters’ wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter) We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child. We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year. We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the “uncle toms” in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the “outback”, whenever you are ready.

 

[BradK]

Agro,

You are a morally bankrupt myopic.

Brad

 

[surfingman]

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies. We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise. We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed. We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes. We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts. We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before. We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain. We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments . We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral. We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay. We apologise for giving you interest free loans. We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value. We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money. We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters’ wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter) We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child. We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year. We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the “uncle toms” in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the “outback”, whenever you are ready.

Please tell you wrote that, its a very good job

You have to give it to the writer it's a well researched piece...

 

[agro]

Please tell you wrote that, its a very good job

got it in the email today surfingman

can't say its not true brad

 

[Trembling Hand]

And I apologise to anyone who reads the above post.

 

[agro]

And I apologise to anyone who reads the above post.

its hard to face reality huh?

 

[Prospector]

I believe that the primary reason for removing those kids was to get them out of an environment which the government, rightly or wrongly, considered unsuitable for the upbringing of children. And to get them into an environment that the government considered, again rightly or wrongly, was more suitable for giving those kids the sort of upbringing and education and life skills that would best equip them to lead fulfilling and worthwhile lives in Australian society.

I think that maybe these principles did motivate them; unfortunately in doing so it was dismissive of the fundamental right of our species to parent their young. Aboriginal children had been raised in this manner for thousands of years; tribal penalties were inflicted on men/women who abused their children, or the values of their tribe. And this was working well until white settlement of Australia, and the introduction of alcohol. We didnt try to help the aboriginal society as a whole to come to terms with what our arrival meant; rather we decided to remove the aboriginal from the children.

One thing for sure is that all this arguing about the right or wrong or the benefit or lack of benefit of the governments actions in regard to the stolen generation, isn't going to do a damn thing towards helping aboriginal people.

Agreed, but a Vision will do more to empower people to want to follow through on action. By saying sorry, we at least have some kind of Vision.

Prospector, you said you're sorry. Could you elaborate? Are you sorry in as much as you regret what happened to aboriginals? Or are you actually apologising for what somebody else did before your time?

I really am saying sorry to both of those points. I am sorry that children were taken from their families, and I cannot imagine the grief of their parents. The thing is, this was happening in my time! The boy I spoke of came from Pitjanjara in South Australia, he was in my class at school, and I am sorry that I thought it was OK and better for him to be at school with me, but be very very distressed about that, rather than be with his family. There was a middle ground to be had, we chose not to take it.

Another thing I'd like to ask you, if you care to answer, is what you thought of the sorry message that my friend sent to me, and which I passed on for the interest and discussion of this forum. I'm talking about the one which apologised for all the help we give aboriginals.

OK, fair enough, I had ignored it because it simply harked back to those 'you should be greatful for all that I have done for you but look how you are repaying me ' kind of thing. Helping people is not about giving them handouts. It is about giving back their sense of self esteem, so that they can help themselves. Dont give a man a bag of rice ready to cook - give him the knowledge to grow and harvest the rice himself.

I respect your opinions more than I respect most other views on this forum....even though I don't always agree with you..

We have had our barney's, haven't we! How do we learn though? By listening, taking on board, accepting others thoughts, discussing, maybe convincing : - I am sure we have both learnt a lot!

I am typing this watching Canberra unfold; I didn't like Nelson's speech - too much rationalising, but thought the finale was very moving.

 

[Edwood]

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies. We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise. We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed. We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes. We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts. We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before. We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain. We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments . We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral. We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay. We apologise for giving you interest free loans. We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value. We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money. We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters’ wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter) We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child. We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year. We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the “uncle toms” in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the “outback”, whenever you are ready.

you missed the bit at the bottom agro that read "we apologise for treating you like a piece of **** on our shoes, then giving you handouts so that we could feel better about it & blame you for your current situation"

 

[Prospector]

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies..

Do you even know the infant mortality rate of Aboriginals?

We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise...

Aboriginal society had its own language and society that had survived thousands of years longer than European culture. Also, English was inflicted on most European cultures too; most of the Continent prefers to speak either French, German, Spanish or whatever!

We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed...

Prior to white arrival, aboriginals led a nomadic existence and didnt need houses. They followed the law of the land rather than impose the law of man on the land.

We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes. ...

Aboriginal culture had a very sophisticated system of law and order. We just didn't understand it and destoyed it.

OK, I can refute each one of these benefits but I am getting too tired.......

 

[Agentm]

agro, well done, that was probably one of the most offensive posts i have seen on this forum. i wont quote it as it offends me so much i think it should never be repeated..

I am of the belief you that you would never have the courage to drive into an aboriginal comminity and read that statement to the people of that community.. imho your delivering a message that you yourself know to be offensive.

 

[2BAD4U]

OK so the government has said sorry for the decisions of past governments. Therefore it stands to reason that all the Vietnam conscripts will get their apology next week!!! Yeah right!

Nothing more than a political (vote winning) stunt. I agree that what was done was wrong, but there have been many groups of people who have suffered because of past governments.

 

[cuttlefish]

We apologise for giving you ... etc

agro maybe you could explain why you have so much resentment towards the aboriginal community that you can't accept that something wrong was done to them? Or are you just so detached from the issue that its all just a bit of a laugh and you don't really care either way anyway?

Instead of parroting every bit of rubbish that comes your way via email why don't you sit down and think about what it would be like to have had someone come into your house when you were 8 years old and whisked you off to live in China never to see or hear from your family again? Forced to ignore your own native language and learn Chinese, told all the time that you are a second class Australian citizen but they will do their best to help you fit into the Chinese culture. (I use China purely as an example it could be any non-Australian culture). How do you think your parents would feel in that situation? Is it possible they would become despondent and lose their drive and will to continue on?

 

[Whiskers]

you missed the bit at the bottom agro that read "we apologise for treating you like a piece of **** on our shoes, then giving you handouts so that we could feel better about it & blame you for your current situation"

Quite the point.

agro, well done, that was probably one of the most offensive posts i have seen on this forum. i wont quote it as it offends me so much i think it should never be repeated..

I am of the belief you that you would never have the courage to drive into an aboriginal comminity and read that statement to the people of that community.. imho your delivering a message that you yourself know to be offensive.

Offensive is an understatement.

This mentality isn't human(e).

Argo goes way below reasonable, rational arguement, probably below racism even to just plain idiotic suggesting the possibility of psycholigical or psychiatric disorder.

 

[Prospector]

Therefore it stands to reason that all the Vietnam conscripts will get their apology next week!!! Yeah right!

We can always hope, can't we!

Conscription was very wrong, but it wasn't based on a person's ethnicity. Just their birthdate. And taking a child from a mother without consent is a basic denial of human rights. If not THE most basic denial.