The Voice

[Dona Ferentes]

Uncle Ray, he's a proud Kamilaroi man, probably an elder.

In the early 1990s, he found out that his great-great-grandmother was an Indigenous Australian woman from the Kamilaroi nation

 

[TimeISmoney]

Keep digging Ray.

The flogs are really coming out of the woodwork these days, also good to finally see their true colours.
In a democratic country, people shouldn't be allowed to make their own minds up and then be insulted non relevant media personalities.

I didn't call them dickheads,
It's not political?


The left are trying to make this political is what made it fail even faster.

 

[Sean K]

The flogs are really coming out of the woodwork these days, also good to finally see their true colours.
In a democratic country, people shouldn't be allowed to make their own minds up and then be insulted non relevant media personalities.

I didn't call them dickheads,
It's not political?


The left are trying to make this political is what made it fail even faster.

He seemed to be justifying it because he was in Marrickville...

 

[farmerge]

Vote harvesting eh?

WHAT this surely takes the cake

 

[farmerge]

Keep digging Ray.

Yesteday's presenter with much to much to say.

 

[wayneL]

Uncle Ray, he's a proud Kamilaroi man, probably an elder.

Yep.

It's like me saying because I've got a hint of Pictish that I'm a proud Scotsman. It's BS of the highest order.

 

[sptrawler]

Standards need to be increased across the board. As ever if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. If you want good teachers, lecturers, researchers and tutors you need to pay them good salaries otherwise they will go somewhere else.

I'm also a bit disappointed that you can't see the link between the gutting of the budgets of universities and TAFE colleges and the skills shortages that we now have.

So Labor are in now and if they don't fix the situation they will be as bad as the other lot.

The skills shortage has nothing to do with Universities and or TAFE, it is due to the lack of kids doing apprenticeships and I have explained endlessly why we have a lack of apprentices.
Kids are staying at school as the masses were told to do and are following the narrative.
If your kid goes to Uni they will be successful, we are the clever country.
So if there is a lack of apprentices, why wouldn't you reduce the funding of Tafe?
As for teachers wages, over the last 10 years they have gone up a lot, but the standard has dropped and if you read the article I posted, the current Govt has finally admitted it is the standard of the teaching course that is the problem the Unis have been focusing on teaching the social sciences rather than how to teach basic fundamental mathmatics and english. Which just happens to be what you and I have been saying for years on the forum.

 

[SirRumpole]

The skills shortage has nothing to do with Universities and or TAFE, it is due to the lack of kids doing apprenticeships and I have explained endlessly why we have a lack of apprentices.

The skills shortage isn't only in the trades it's in the professions which is a university responsibility.

Agreed about over emphasis on Arts instead of STEM, it's a dumbing down that has been going on for many years. Why does cutting budgets help the situation ? As I said before if you want quality courses someone has to pay for it.

 

[sptrawler]

If you want quality courses, you have to have quality students to attend them.
50% of kids aren't brilliant.
Go back to getting the kids that aren't brilliant back into the trades, get them out of school at 15 or 16 and learn a trade.
Get the Govt to start and build the social housing, rather than paying building companies for overinflated prices and getting half the amount of houses than we would if they built them themselves.
Take the essential services back in house, and stop the rot in the supply of services, while also giving our kids jobs.
You know what I mean, get the politicians off their ar$e$ and doing the jobs they used to do, which was actually being directly responsible for the end product, rather than just taxing more to fund a poorer outcome.
Also it isnt about one side ot the other, they all waste heaps, then have to find who they can shaft to pay for their own incompetence.

 

[SirRumpole]

If you want quality courses, you have to have quality students to attend them.
50% of kids aren't brilliant.
Go back to getting the kids that aren't brilliant back into the trades, get them out of school at 15 or 16 and learn a trade.
Get the Govt to start and build the social housing, rather than paying building companies for overinflated prices and getting half the amount of houses than we would if they built them themselves.
Take the essential services back in house, and stop the rot in the supply of services, while also giving our kids jobs.
You know what I mean, get the politicians off their ar$e$ and doing the jobs they used to do, which was actually being directly responsible for the end product, rather than just taxing more to fund a poorer outcome.
Also it isnt about one side ot the other, they all waste heaps, then have to find who they can shaft to pay for their own incompetence.

All of the things you have just said (and I agree with them all) are classical Socialist policies which neither of the main parties will adopt because they are just too lazy.

Shall we vote for the Greens in that case?

 

[farmerge]

All of the things you have just said (and I agree with them all) are classical Socialist policies which neither of the main parties will adopt because they are just too lazy.

Shall we vote for the Greens in that case?

Maybe just one day we will get a Govt that actually serves the people instead of being self serving.
Couldn't vote for the Greens (the Loons) in a fit I'm afraid

 

[sptrawler]

All of the things you have just said (and I agree with them all) are classical Socialist policies which neither of the main parties will adopt because they are just too lazy.

Shall we vote for the Greens in that case?

Unfortunately IMO it isn't about a party, it is more about a person, the problem is 90% of politicians IMO are in there for the ride.
Very few people in life are driven by the desire to make change, as it is usually a lot of hard work, personal sacrifice and stress.
We have had some good politicians in that mold, that put what they feel is best for the country first, if that coincides with their personal ends so be it, as long as it makes the desired positive outcome for the country.
On the World stage there has been many, obviously it is a bigger pool of people, but individuals like Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore changed it from a 3rd World dump, to an amazing first world country that has improved the life of most of the inhabitants.
Xi in China and look at what he has achieved in 20 years.
Hawke/Keating and Howard/ Costello, whether the outcomes in hind sight are positive or negative, they made changes and the country was on board with the gamble.
In hind sight there was good and bad outcomes from both, globalisation is proving to be a two edged sword, one way it drops the price of goods, the other side as is showing now we loose high level manufacturing jobs and eventually living standards.
Privatisation, the theory as with globalisation, is sound. You sell assetts to free up money, supply better and more social infrastructure and services, like hospitals, schools and public services.
The bad outcome is that a lot of public infrastructure like electricity, water, sewage etc has to be provided before it is required, in the expectation the demand will increase and it will be there to supply the service.
The private sector doesn't work like that, they have to get a return as soon as the equipment is installed, so the infrastructure is lagging the demand instead of being in front of the demand as is the case when it is Government owned.
The problem Australia has IMO, is we don't have a Statesman, someone who can say ok we have a stuff up we need to reverse some of this.
All we have is career politicians that want to rise as far as possible, without rocking the boat, so it all becomes a finger pointing, blame game excercise, where the craftiest and most covert operator gets to jump into the big chair.
Unless someone 'special' comes along in politics, the slide will continue and that is certain IMO and I don't see anyone on the current upper echelons of politics that fit the bill in any party.
Someone with a very strong committment and personality, needs to stand up and say, stop this crap we need to turn this $hit around, instead of coming up with another brain fart to add to the stench, to coin a phrase. Lol
Taking power as an example because I have a small understanding of it.
A lot of these coal generators would love to offload them and many have written them down to no holding value IMO the Governments with the help of the Feds should buy some of them back and take vontrol of the transition to renewables rather than demanding that the privates take responsibility for it and meanwhile the Govt had to pay them to provide the service. Just another example of wasting taxpayers money.
If they just look at it as how much did we get when we sold them the station vs how much we can buy it back for.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Unfortunately IMO it isn't about a party, it is more about a person, the problem is 90% of politicians IMO are in there for the ride.
Very few people in life are driven by the desire to make change, as it is usually a lot of hard work, personal sacrifice and stress.
We have had some good politicians in that mold, that put what they feel is best for the country first, if that coincides with their personal ends so be it, as long as it makes the desired positive outcome for the country.
On the World stage there has been many, obviously it is a bigger pool of people, but individuals like Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore changed it from a 3rd World dump, to an amazing first world country that has improved the life of most of the inhabitants.
Xi in China and look at what he has achieved in 20 years.
Hawke/Keating and Howard/ Costello, whether the outcomes in hind sight are positive or negative, they made changes and the country was on board with the gamble.
In hind sight there was good and bad outcomes from both, globalisation is proving to be a two edged sword, one way it drops the price of goods, the other side as is showing now we loose high level manufacturing jobs and eventually living standards.
Privatisation, the theory as with globalisation, is sound. You sell assetts to free up money, supply better and more social infrastructure and services, like hospitals, schools and public services.
The bad outcome is that a lot of public infrastructure like electricity, water, sewage etc has to be provided before it is required, in the expectation the demand will increase and it will be there to supply the service.
The private sector doesn't work like that, they have to get a return as soon as the equipment is installed, so the infrastructure is lagging the demand instead of being in front of the demand as is the case when it is Government owned.
The problem Australia has IMO, is we don't have a Statesman, someone who can say ok we have a stuff up we need to reverse some of this.
All we have is career politicians that want to rise as far as possible, without rocking the boat, so it all becomes a finger pointing, blame game excercise, where the craftiest and most covert operator gets to jump into the big chair.
Unless someone 'special' comes along in politics, the slide will continue and that is certain IMO and I don't see anyone on the current upper echelons of politics that fit the bill in any party.
Someone with a very strong committment and personality, needs to stand up and say, stop this crap we need to turn this $hit around, instead of coming up with another brain fart to add to the stench, to coin a phrase. Lol
Taking power as an example because I have a small understanding of it.
A lot of these coal generators would love to offload them and many have written them down to no holding value IMO the Governments with the help of the Feds should buy some of them back and take vontrol of the transition to renewables rather than demanding that the privates take responsibility for it and meanwhile the Govt had to pay them to provide the service. Just another example of wasting taxpayers money.
If they just look at it as how much did we get when we sold them the station vs how much we can buy it back for.

If you've read the book 'The Lucky Country', you'll know that the idiom means something totally different from what many think it does. Australia has wasted golden opportunities from way back, we haven't thrived like we should have at all, and political systems have been guided by a bunch of idiots. The book was written in the 60s and still holds truth to this day.

"Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise."

 

[SirRumpole]

A lot of these coal generators would love to offload them and many have written them down to no holding value IMO the Governments with the help of the Feds should buy some of them back and take vontrol of the transition to renewables rather than demanding that the privates take responsibility for it and meanwhile the Govt had to pay them to provide the service. Just another example of wasting taxpayers money.
If they just look at it as how much did we get when we sold them the station vs how much we can buy it back for.

Absolutely. I'm sure some in the Left of the ALP would like to do this, Andrews made noises about doing that before he jumped ship, where that will go now is anyone's guess, it certainly hasn't been a subject for public discussion by anyone.

Certainly the Greens don't want to buy coal stations, so it looks like that is pie in the sky.

 

[moXJO]

Apprenticeships are not working. Tafe teachers are majority terrible. Like really really bad. Lesson structure is terrible.
Very hard to learn beyond this 5hitty apprenticeship based structure in their chosen trade. Learning on the job isn't the same anymore as you have to rush to make a profit. A lot of experience is gone.

 

[sptrawler]

Apprenticeships are not working. Tafe teachers are majority terrible. Like really really bad. Lesson structure is terrible.
Very hard to learn beyond this 5hitty apprenticeship based structure in their chosen trade. Learning on the job isn't the same anymore as you have to rush to make a profit. A lot of experience is gone.

All brought about by adopting a U.S style competence standards based system, rather than staying with the old system, that turned out the most versatile tradespeople in the world.
Also selling of Government corporations that employed thousands of apprentices every year didn't help, as the drop in apprentice numbers happened so did the drop in teachers, now we are suffering because the poorly trained tradies are becoming the teachers.

 

[SirRumpole]

All brought about by adopting a U.S style competence standards based system, rather than staying with the old system, that turned out the most versatile tradespeople in the world.
Also selling of Government corporations that employed thousands of apprentices every year didn't help, as the drop in apprentice numbers happened so did the drop in teachers, now we are suffering because the poorly trained tradies are becoming the teachers.

Don't know much about the competency standards system. Could you explain that please ?

Its a bit off topic for this thread so If you want to put it somewhere else please do.

 

[sptrawler]

Don't know much about the competency standards system. Could you explain that please ?

Its a bit off topic for this thread so If you want to put it somewhere else please do.

I will start a thread competency and maintaining standards, that should make it more general, otherwise it wont have any legs.
I'm having lunch with the boss, so it might be a little later. Lol

 

[TimeISmoney]

All brought about by adopting a U.S style competence standards based system, rather than staying with the old system, that turned out the most versatile tradespeople in the world.
Also selling of Government corporations that employed thousands of apprentices every year didn't help, as the drop in apprentice numbers happened so did the drop in teachers, now we are suffering because the poorly trained tradies are becoming the teachers.

Do you know why the government went to the RTO system? I'll tell you why because it's cheaper for everyone involved and they pump out useless tradies in no time. I worked as a trade teacher in one of these establishments and quit within 3 months. I was working 14hr + days on a paid salary for a 38hr week. The govt pays for the first two lessons 1hr each per individual module, if the kid doesn't get it within the first 2x 1hr lessons, it then comes out of the RTO expenses to get them through or you fail the student. These are modules that normally take a week and sometimes a week and a half of full time days to teach in Tafes. You usually end up with less than half an hour with each student. You have to see management to get on site, and then you have to find the student which could be anywhere, sometimes it takes you 20 minutes just to park the car because there's a small number of parks in city CBDs. The employer doesn't want to pull the student away from work, sometimes you have to wait for them to finish a job.

I had students who were illiterate and others with psychological disabilities and then had workplaces that signed kids up just to get govt grants. Most workplaces treated the training as secondary to work, not many in the workplace wanted to teach them anything because in many cases of car dealerships they're used as cheap labour, once they finish their trade they're shown the door, and they only retain something like 5% of the apprentices. These kids are virtually no good to anyone because all they've done is pump up tyres and change oil for 4 years of their apprenticeship, the lucky ones may get to do a gearbox replacement or two. The sad thing is apart from the few ratbags, most of these kids are really keen to learn something.

Even when I went to TAFE in Qld for fulltime 4-week release blocks, everything they taught bar basic engineering principles was outdated junk, I was working on electronic fuel injected cars in the workplace and TAFE was teaching carburetors. The students were literally teaching the teachers because they had been out of workshops for so long and barely knew anything about new tech in cars.

That's my rant over for today.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

i thought the winner of The Voice tonight was the deserving winner.