Australian Federal Election - 2022

[SirRumpole]

There is a an article from Saul Griffiths outlining the way both major parties have ignored the nation building and cost saving opportunities around roof top solar and localised energy storage. Some very compelling figures. To cut to the chase an electrified house and car powered by solar/renewable energy would save consumers around $5000 a year. Obviously there is a lot more to the story than the punch line but it should be examined and debated in this election.

The second story backgrounds Saul Griffiths . He is no impractical energy nerd. Many successes and very hard headed.

Australia’s election debate on energy ignores the miracle of rooftop solar​

Saul Griffith


Power harvested from our roofs and stored locally could smash carbon emissions and obliterate household energy bills
View attachment 140614
‘Through the miracle of rooftop solar, Australian households are already accessing the cheapest energy in the history of humanity.’ Photograph: Dan Himbrechts/AAP
Wed 20 Apr 2022 05.30 BSTLast modified on Wed 20 Apr 2022 05.38 BS

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ignores-the-miracle-of-rooftop-solar#comments
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It is a political tragedy that in this election our energy discussion is still framed around loss and sacrifice when it should be about abundance and opportunity.

Take the current skirmish over Labor’s plan to fast-track new poles and wires with $20bn in federal support to accommodate new large-scale renewable projects. Labor’s modelling indicates the investment will wipe $378 a year from household bills by 2030. The government, on the other hand, asserts that the investment will result in significantly higher energy bills.

Both sides are modelling the wrong thing. They are forgetting half of the energy equation. They are modelling the supply side (where we get energy from) and forgetting the demand side (what we use it for).
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ck-on-labor-energy-policy-is-all-too-familiar

The future is not just swapping big coal for big solar. To get to zero emissions, we have to electrify the demand side and decarbonise supply. Critically this means tripling the amount of clean electricity generated to also power our cars and heat our homes. A smart energy policy would support electrification of our communities. At this stage, both parties could take the lead in this area and should be fighting for the opportunity, given the windfall it will be for their constituents.

Labor misses the point because it has not grasped the potential of electrifying our homes and vehicles, which will drive much greater household energy and cost savings – as much as $5,000 a year by 2030. The Coalition misses the point because it doesn’t model the coming electrification of the demand side where the majority of new electricity demand will be met by more community and rooftop solar, which will be cheaper than the electricity from those transmission lines.

Through the miracle of rooftop solar, Australian households are already accessing the cheapest energy in the history of humanity. Solar is already installed at approximately $1/W of capacity. After financing, that’s around 6c/kWh delivered to you from your rooftop. This is approximately 20% of the price of electricity from the grid. We now just need to let our rooftop and community solar do more. It should also be powering our cars and our heat.

Australia’s election debate on energy ignores the miracle of rooftop solar | Saul Griffith

Power harvested from our roofs and stored locally could smash carbon emissions and obliterate household energy bills

www.theguardian.com

Electric Monaros and hotted-up skateboards : the ‘genius’ who wants to electrify our world

After advising US president Joe Biden on energy, Saul Griffith is back in Australia to declare war on the climate crisis

www.theguardian.com

Nice topic for discussion, but I doubt whether the electorate is in to the details, they just want to know which way power prices will go.

 

[wayneL]

I guess most will know that I am in the process of moving into a new property.

We've always been pretty frugal with power our last bill was $110 and the highest for the last few years was 180.

Where in the process of getting a Tesla battery for the house.... And I actually also already have a lithium battery to run my machines in my truck.

For me is nothing to do with climate change but more to do with energy security, even if on my microscopic scale.

The thing is that this automatically reduces our carbon footprint, whether that is a good thing or not. As I have often implied over the years, we are in fact pretty Green and focus on minimising resource use.

Green libertarians I suppose.

A long time ago we thought that what is happening presently would happen at some stage so have been preparing for quite some time.

Anyway, that is my virtue signalling for the evening

 

[IFocus]

Anyway, that is my virtue signalling for the evening

You greenies are all the same

 

[moXJO]

Point of order, for those who have gone through the lengthy process of transitioning, bone and ligament alignment, particularly around the pelvic area, do in fact change. It is also common for the trans woman to be shorter than when she was pretending to be a man.

I wonder if people here are confusing trans women with shemales?

Interesting, haven't really done a deep dive into the info.

 

[moXJO]

So as the religious right take over the NSW Liberal party (Morrison inspired pre selections) I see many here have taken the bait and switch tactic arguing about the perils of trans gender women.

You have been sucked in.

Note Morrison is happy to get rid of moderates and back religious right radicals making BS public statements then withdrawing them and apologising, dog whistle at its best.

After reading this discussion another term of Morrison Australia cannot afford but looks like its coming.

I'm not sure there is much to argue about on the trans issue. I don't see much mileage in it overall.
I've noticed overseas culture wars is targeting "groomers" on the left. Especially in schools.

Not sure if there would be enough to stir the pot here when half your staff is being bent over desks.

 

[basilio]

Election time rolls out again. Time for Angus Taylor to dust off another set of creative anonymous modelling and "prove"that Labours push for rapid renewable energy will bankrupt the nation and send energy costs skyrocketing.

Renew Energy has called this out in no uncertain terms.

“Another lie:” It is time to call out Coalition’s climate modelling con​

Michael Mazengarb & Giles Parkinson 19 April 2022 0
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Minister for Energy Angus Taylor and Prime Minister Scott Morrison speaks to the media during a press conference at Parliament House in Canberra (AAP Image/Mick Tsikas).

It’s back – the now predictable feature of Coalition election tactics – a scare campaign against Labor’s climate and energy policy.
Tuesday saw the latest example of the Coalition making astronomical claims about the costs of Labor climate policies courtesy of federal energy minister Angus Taylor and the Murdoch media, both citing unpublished modelling.

It is the latest in a long history of climate policy scare campaigns run by the Coalition, claiming that Labor’s policies will lead to a surge in electricity prices.

It is a tactic kick-started by Tony Abbott’s attacks on the Gillard government’s carbon price in the lead up to the 2013 campaign.
It helped Abbott win that campaign, and so every federal election since has seen concocted modelling used to produce fanciful claims about the costs of Labor policies and which are then provided to and run uncritically by favoured media outlets.

It is designed to scare voters and has been a major factor in Australia’s failure to take meaningful action on climate change for the last decade. It has been responsible for setting Australia back in the global transition to clean energy.

“Another lie:” It is time to call out Coalition’s climate modelling con

Taylor rehashes Coalition’s favoured campaign tactic: Producing unverified modelling to make fictional claims about Labor policy costs.

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[sptrawler]

@basilio I think once and for all the argument will be resolved, labor will win this election and they will implement their plan, so it will be an interesting exercise.
As @Smurf1976 has already said it can be done, so it should be very interesting watching the implementation, I for one am extremely keen to see it all unfold it will be great IMO.

 

[basilio]

@basilio I think once and for all the argument will be resolved, labor will win this election and they will implement their plan, so it will be an interesting exercise.
As @Smurf1976 has already said it can be done, so it should be very interesting watching the implementation, I for one am extremely keen to see it all unfold it will be great IMO.

Long way to go on both counts. Frankly I don't necessarily have unwavering confidence in unfolding a great renewable energy revolution. Certainly has to be done but our collective experience would recognise that setting up the best planning processes and ensuring best value/most appropriate/optimum reliability engineering solutions is not easy or should be taken for granted.

I sincerely hope that if a Labour Government is returned they have done the preparation for this task. Be interesting to see if that question is asked in the next few weeks.

 

[SirRumpole]

I sincerely hope that if a Labour Government is returned they have done the preparation for this task. Be interesting to see if that question is asked in the next few weeks.

In that case, better hope the Greens don't have balance of power. No more coal, no more hydro, just wind, solar and lights out at night.

 

[sptrawler]

In that case, better hope the Greens don't have balance of power. No more coal, no more hydro, just wind, solar and lights out at night.

The good thing is, once a party takes office, it becomes responsible for outcomes. When they are in opposition they just have to criticise and talk down the party that's in office.
So when Labor get in they will be given a briefing on all facets of the electrical system, its constraints and projects that are on the drawing board.
IMO they wont do much different to what the Libs have done, as politicians they have no technical expertise in what is a very complex area of engineering, so they will make big statements and do a bit of chest thumping but they will defer to the experts for guidance.
At the moment there is a huge amount being spent on HV transmission and the Snowy 2.0 project, they will probably just announce they are bringing forward some of the projects, that then gets the media off their backs.
It will be hard to accelerate the transition as the build process just takes a certain amount of time, also it sounds like Victoria could be in strife with this alternator burning out again, so keeping the lights on will be a big enough problem on its own. Everyone will be screaming blue murder for renewables, so Labor will have their hands full, just explaining why they can't do it quickly.
I don't think the first term will be a lot of fun for labor.

 

[PZ99]

^ especially if they lose the election before that

 

[wayneL]

In that case, better hope the Greens don't have balance of power. No more coal, no more hydro, just wind, solar and lights out at night.

FWIW, I am spending up on both emergency ICE generators and the latest lithium battery technology.

Additionally the property I just bought has several years supply of biomass for heating (ie firewood).

So when the Greens completely the screw up energy supply, there will still be parties at my place.

Even rederob will be welcome for entertainment value

 

[basilio]

It will be hard to accelerate the transition as the build process just takes a certain amount of time,

Not sure about that.
Each build takes a certain amount of time. But if one has multiple builds occurring across many areas then remarkable progress could be made.
So essentially

• multiple solar/wind /small solar installations.
• Many big and smaller battery projects
• Upgraded interconnectors to transfer power
• Fast tracking electric cars/trucks and then integrating their batteries into the power system.

These can be achieved with largely private investment if government policies give the appropriate signals. The stumbling points will be technical capacity to implement, planning legislation and push back from current fossil fuel interests.

IMV a new government could make quite remarkable progress in 30 months if it set its mind to it. Lets remember that all the State Government regardless of political persuasion and many industry groups are on board and would welcome such a drive.

I think a Labour government could make this a priority to promote employment, local industry, energy security and a strong co-operative approach to a common issue. Makes good sense on many levels.

 

[sptrawler]

Not sure about that.
Each build takes a certain amount of time. But if one has multiple builds occurring across many areas then remarkable progress could be made.
So essentially

• multiple solar/wind /small solar installations.
• Many big and smaller battery projects
• Upgraded interconnectors to transfer power
• Fast tracking electric cars/trucks and then integrating their batteries into the power system.

These can be achieved with largely private investment if government policies give the appropriate signals. The stumbling points will be technical capacity to implement, planning legislation and push back from current fossil fuel interests.

IMV a new government could make quite remarkable progress in 30 months if it set its mind to it. Lets remember that all the State Government regardless of political persuasion and many industry groups are on board and would welcome such a drive.

Building the solar/wind farm is the easy bit, having the grid configured so they can gain access has been the issue, there are several transmission interconnectors being built.
Apart from S.A, most of the other States have talked up a storm, but done very little.
That's the problem today, talks cheap and as long as they say the right things the media leaves them alone.
Victoria, NSW and QLD are the major coal burners, how many solar/wind farms have those State Governments built? But they certainly talk up a storm.

This article from your Guardian, in 2020. So in a year and a half how much has Matt Kean's department built? It's a shame the Guardian don't ask him how many sites he has up and running, not the private sector, his State Government, he is the one promising outcomes.
Why didn't they put in to build some gas plant and shut down coal? Didn't he bag Kurri Kurri? Like I said talks cheap.
But he certainly is great at pointing out other peoples flaws, he is just typical of today's duds in politics, full of brown matter IMO.

NSW promises to build more renewable energy than Victoria and Queensland combined

Gladys Berejiklian’s government says it will support 12 gigawatts of wind and solar and 2 gigawatts of energy storage

www.theguardian.com

Matt Kean said a 20-year NSW electricity infrastructure roadmap released on Monday would lower the cost of electricity, create jobs in regional areas and avoid the state having to rush to build new generation as ageing coal plants closed in the years ahead.

The scheme involves the government awarding long-term contracts for three different types of technology – wind and solar farms to be built in three regional renewable energy zones, long-duration storage that can provide back-up power for eight hours or more, likely to come from pumped hydro or batteries, and fast-start “firming” generation that ensures grid stability in a grid that increasingly runs on variable renewables, likely to come from batteries or gas.

 

[sptrawler]

FWIW, I am spending up on both emergency ICE generators and the latest lithium battery technology.

Additionally the property I just bought has several years supply of biomass for heating (ie firewood).

So when the Greens completely the screw up energy supply, there will still be parties at my place.

Even rederob will be welcome for entertainment value

You have a Land Rover, they will run on anything, when they're running. ?

You just need to take a trailer with you, collect all the horse $hit and bull $hit when you're out there working, then make a methane producer to run the Land Rover Wallah problem solvered.
If this dude could do it with chicken poo, just imagine how much easier it is with horse manure, I mean the number needed is far less when you compare stool size. ?
We are drifting off topic, but I did add the BS word to keep it about politics.

Chicken Manure Fuel Can Power Your Car – Mother Earth News

Chicken farmer Harold Bate discovered an eco-friendly way to power his car using decomposing chicken and pig manure as low-cost methane gas car fuel. Originally published as "The Marvelous Chicken-Powered Motorcar!" July/August 1971 MOTHER EARTH NEWS.

www.motherearthnews.com

 

[Eager]

I thought this thread was about the election and what the various candidates have been saying through the campaign.

To that end, Morrison deserves a pile-on for his disgraceful comments about being blessed to not have disabled children. Sure, he didn't mean offence, but what a goof he is for even thinking that what he said was acceptable.

 

[Knobby22]

I thought this thread was about the election and what the various candidates have been saying through the campaign.

To that end, Morrison deserves a pile-on for his disgraceful comments about being blessed to not have disabled children. Sure, he didn't mean offence, but what a goof he is for even thinking that what he said was acceptable.

I thought it was a deliberate distraction and the words were meant to try to shore up the Sydney West population.

Let's not think of the huge failure in foreign policy caused by incompetence and slackness.The USA is said to be furious with us.

A China base at Solomon Islands cuts us off from Japan and South Korea and allows China to cut our main undersea communication links whenever they want.

Look over there!

 

[Eager]

A China base at Solomon Islands cuts us off from Japan and South Korea and allows China to cut our main undersea communication links whenever they want.

Not to mention, an impediment to the shipment of our reserve fuel supplies which are located in the U.S.

I can see a scenario where a new 'Free' Trade Agreement agreement will have to be made under duress with China - we will get our fuel if they get our crops for free.

Morrison doesn't care because hypothetical consequences such as that won't happen under his watch.

 

[IFocus]

I thought it was a deliberate distraction and the words were meant to try to shore up the Sydney West population.

Let's not think of the huge failure in foreign policy caused by incompetence and slackness.The USA is said to be furious with us.

A China base at Solomon Islands cuts us off from Japan and South Korea and allows China to cut our main undersea communication links whenever they want.

Look over there!

I know the headlines are saying its the biggest security blunder ever but its actually bigger.

China will own the Pacific in no time as a result, there has been a some pointed commentary about how badly Australia has dealt with the pacific islands and its continues to this day. A minister or understudy fly's out for a day or two and then that's it.


What it means for Australia at the very least is that it will tie up large amounts of military / intelligence assets that we don't have its a major cluster.

 

[Eager]

I know the headlines are saying its the biggest security blunder ever but its actually bigger.

China will own the Pacific in no time as a result, there has been a some pointed commentary about how badly Australia has dealt with the pacific islands and its continues to this day. A minister or understudy fly's out for a day or two and then that's it.


What it means for Australia at the very least is that it will tie up large amounts of military / intelligence assets that we don't have its a major cluster.

Isn't this just a confirmation of conservative mantra?

Always take the cheapest short term option, regardless of the consequences?