NBN Rollout Scrapped

[Knobby22]

NBN backflip!
Fibre to the home and its going to create jobs. Umm, suppose this thread is now redundant.

 

[sptrawler]

It all works out in the end, also we have NBN boxes for tapping points and 5G bases, win/win. Those who want fibre can now get it, just get a high speed plan apparently, which is what we talked about some 200 pages ago.?

 

[sptrawler]

NBN backflip!
Fibre to the home and its going to create jobs. Umm, suppose this thread is now redundant.

Knobby, this to me is my pet hate with politics, if you read through the posts from 4550, on the previous page all the examples are there.
The Government spending taxpayers money, to install upgraded equipment, so that the private enterprise can charge the taxpayer more to access the service they once owned.
It is unusual that the whole story is covered in one page of posts, but interesting reading in hindsight IMO.

 

[overhang]

Well well, what a backflip, almost like all the experts were correct. The Labor NBN was never about the now, it was about future proofing. And here we are 6-7 years later after the Libs ripped up the plan and now they realize the billions we have spent on FTTN is now effectively obsolete.
Whilst this is still a step in the right direction it's still has the same issues the Lib rollout was had from the start, the digital divide will still be there and given that 2 million of the 4.7 million FTTN homes has been foreshadowed to be upgraded then it will be NBN lotto all over again.

All though details aren't clear yet it can't work like how it sounds, Not everyone who orders a high speed plan will receive fibre to the home. I think how this will work is that they will upgrade select areas or streets from FTTN to FTTC, then those that order a high speed plan inside that area would receive the lead in to the home that gives FTTP. How they decide which area's would be upgraded is unknown, prob like the sports rorts it will be a spread sheet where the blue area's get it and the red area's miss out. Again though it's just costing us more when they should do the 4.7 million to FTTC so that we get that economics of scale cost reduction instead of coming back and do the other 2.7 million in another 6 years.


One issue with how shortsighted the Libs NBN has been is that all though they acknowledged in early days that FTTN would need to be upgraded down the track they never mandated that new developments required FTTP, so we have many new developments still using copper that will no doubt need to be upgraded with tax payer $$$ to FTTC.

 

[sptrawler]

Well well, what a backflip, almost like all the experts were correct. The Labor NBN was never about the now, it was about future proofing. And here we are 6-7 years later after the Libs ripped up the plan and now they realize the billions we have spent on FTTN is now effectively obsolete.
Whilst this is still a step in the right direction it's still has the same issues the Lib rollout was had from the start, the digital divide will still be there and given that 2 million of the 4.7 million FTTN homes has been foreshadowed to be upgraded then it will be NBN lotto all over again.

All though details aren't clear yet it can't work like how it sounds, Not everyone who orders a high speed plan will receive fibre to the home. I think how this will work is that they will upgrade select areas or streets from FTTN to FTTC, then those that order a high speed plan inside that area would receive the lead in to the home that gives FTTP. How they decide which area's would be upgraded is unknown, prob like the sports rorts it will be a spread sheet where the blue area's get it and the red area's miss out. Again though it's just costing us more when they should do the 4.7 million to FTTC so that we get that economics of scale cost reduction instead of coming back and do the other 2.7 million in another 6 years.


One issue with how shortsighted the Libs NBN has been is that all though they acknowledged in early days that FTTN would need to be upgraded down the track they never mandated that new developments required FTTP, so we have many new developments still using copper that will no doubt need to be upgraded with tax payer $$$ to FTTC.

What was short sighted, was to start the roll out in marginal residential areas, rather than business CBS's, but let's just omit that.
The other thing that was dumb was to run fibre to every house, when only a few actually need, or indeed want it.
How many renter's want to pay for a high speed internet plan, how many old people want an internet connection at all, how many would prefer wireless anyway?
The way it has been rolled out will prove to be the right way IMO. Those that want fibre and bling speed can get it, those that don't want or need it don't have to pay for it.
As the copper degrades in a property, the carrier will change it out anyway.
There are lots of places where I live that have fibre to the house, it was one of the first places in the original roll out and they still aren't connected 10 years later.
It won't be many years before it becomes just a cable t.v system anyway, everyone will want the flexibility of high speed wireless, 5g, 6g are not far away.
Anyway, it is what it is and time will tell if it was a great idea or a white elephant.

 

[overhang]

What was short sighted, was to start the roll out in marginal residential areas, rather than business CBS's, but let's just omit that.
Agreed

The other thing that was dumb was to run fibre to every house, when only a few actually need, or indeed want it.
How many renter's want to pay for a high speed internet plan, how many old people want an internet connection at all, how many would prefer wireless anyway?

Well no, as it turns out it wasn't a stupid plan, evidenced by the coalition now wanting to go back to the same pits that techs worked in over the last 6 years where in some cases they ran new copper and replace it with fibre, that my friend is the definition of stupid. As to who wants high speed plans the stats show the large increase in uptake of high speed plans, and it would be higher just so many can't access greater than 50mb speeds anyway. Old people probably don't want or require high speeds but many renters do, as they are young and live in the digital age with Netflix subscriptions etc.


Wireless will never become the main service median, I can't even get 2 bars of 4g in the local bunnings, the packet loss on 5g is huge, but they certainly can co-exist together.

Anyway, it is what it is and time will tell if it was a great idea or a white elephant.

The time is now for FTTN. In the perfect world I think the rollout should have been FTTC with users to pay for the lead in if they require higher speeds.

 

[sptrawler]

Well no, as it turns out it wasn't a stupid plan, evidenced by the coalition now wanting to go back to the same pits that techs worked in over the last 6 years where in some cases they ran new copper and replace it with fibre, that my friend is the definition of stupid. As to who wants high speed plans the stats show the large increase in uptake of high speed plans, and it would be higher just so many can't access greater than 50mb speeds anyway. Old people probably don't want or require high speeds but many renters do, as they are young and live in the digital age with Netflix subscriptions etc.


Wireless will never become the main service median, I can't even get 2 bars of 4g in the local bunnings, the packet loss on 5g is huge, but they certainly can co-exist together.



The time is now for FTTN. In the perfect world I think the rollout should have been FTTC with users to pay for the lead in if they require higher speeds.

I agree fibre to the kerb makes the most sense of all, that then leaves it up to those that actually want or need it, with the opportunity to upgrade later and would save the taxpayer from footing the last and worst bit of the connection.
Talking to a techy who was installing the node, he was saying there is a possibility they will house 5g transmitters at a later date, which I thought was interesting.

 

[PZ99]

In my case it wasn't whether I want or need it - it was the unreliable ADSL being switched off and replaced with 50mb NBN for a slightly lower monthly fee that made it a no-brainer. No installation cost and the land line phone still works during a blackout. Scored a free wifi / voip adapter in the deal. So all up, I think it was worth it. The infrastructure problably could've been sold off by now had the original rollout happened.

In my view - NBN is to the Libs what boat people was to Labor.

 

[bellenuit]

and the land line phone still works during a blackout.

How does that work? Does the NBN box or whatever it is called have battery back up? Wouldn't the VOIP adapter need its own power source? Not saying you're wrong, but trying to figure out how it hangs together.

 

[PZ99]

Battery backup

 

[sptrawler]

It won't be free to air in a few years it will all come through the internet via the governments filter.:1zhelp:
Then not only will the government know what you are watching, you will be paying to watch "free to air"

Well that post was in 2012 and now the time is closing in, enjoy 'live and free' while we still can.

‘Win-win reform’: Telcos back government plans for spectrum split

Australia’s telcos and TV networks are on a collision course over a government proposal to make the radio-frequency spectrum used for TV services available for 5G.

www.smh.com.au

Australia’s three largest telcos are urging the federal government to push ahead with a proposal that would allow them to use some of the radiofrequency spectrum occupied by television networks to deliver 5G services to their customers.

Telstra, Optus and TPG Telecom have backed a proposal outlined in a government green paper that would allow them to receive some of the 600MHZ spectrum used by television broadcasters. The views are at odds with the industry group for commercial television broadcasters, Free TV, which said it did not believe the current proposal would help the networks in the long-term.

Free TV chief executive Bridget Fair has previously said the proposal would affect the number and quality of services that television broadcasters can provide to the public. One of the main issues with the current proposal is the type of compression technology being suggested by the government that the TV networks could use to reduce their spectrum use. The commercial TV industry believes the use of MPEG-4 compression technology would reduce the number of multi-channels available to the public and coverage quality.

Free TV chairman Greg Hywood said on Monday there were alternatives to the government’s current proposal to hive spectrum away from broadcasters and sell it to the telcos.

“There is a better option with better technologies, which will enable broadcasters to be able to deliver by the quantity of programming through existing channels, plus move to higher quality transmission, but it’s going to take a bit of time,” he said.
However, Mr Sheridan said services will not be reduced if the government’s proposal was successful, adding that there were a number of alternatives already available for tradition broadcasting services.
“Optus can confirm that alternatives to traditional terrestrial broadcasting already exist and there will be even more multi-cast...options in the very near future,” he said.

“High-speed broadband infrastructure, such as the NBN, high-speed mobile networks, and satellite delivery platforms provide viable commercial options across metropolitan, regional, rural and remote areas.”

 

[sptrawler]

Now add to the previous post and the discussion of 5G small cells, autonomous driving cars.

https://www.techradar.com/news/why-self-driving-vehicles-could-be-the-biggest-winner-in-a-5g-world

If this is all correct, fibre to the node, with a 5G cell in the node, may well have been a master stroke.

If heavy coverage of 5G is the pre requisite for autonomous cars, and it can deliver high speed to the home, Malcolm has pulled off a blinder, each node becomes a 5G cell tower.
It also ensures that the NBN, isn't made redundant, as 5G is rolled out.
As I always say time will tell ,and just because the media say something is crap, doesn't always make it so. lol

A post from a few years ago and early signs are starting to show.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

 

[Belli]

A good a thread as any.

Such an interesting time with the internet yesterday which spilled over to this morning.

Yesterday the NBN went down at home around 10 am. Not really a matter of concern for me as I am not wedded to looking at news sites, the share market or much else. A check indicated there was an NBN issue and it was expected to be resolved in a couple of days. Issue was partially fixed by 5 pm.

However, and this is where the fun began, not one peripheral worked. No connection with the solar inverters, my sound system. Zilch with the smartphone, not that I use it much apart from the app for the sound system.

Checked the modem. Broadband working normally. OK, so something, whatever it is, will be fixed overnight or so I think. This morning, the same situation. Nothing. Again checked the modem. Yep, broadband working normally but then I noticed none of the Wi-Fi peripherals are listed and also noticed a small advisory 2.4G and 5G Wi-Fi is off.

Did some digging in the services area and neither were enabled and had to turn the Wi-Fi on manually within the modem. Now all are working as intended.

What a bummer for some who may not know how to do it but it really is poor service when the NBN service is restored by the provider if the broadband is down for an extended period it does not apparently automatically enable Wi-Fi at the same time. I don't know if this is standard practice but if it is just not good enough in my view.

 

[Belli]

Such an interesting time with the internet yesterday which spilled over to this morning.

To add to this, while the internet provider sent me a text on Wednesday saying the problem with the internet had been fixed (I did report it to them) on Friday an NBN technician called me about the problem. After a brief discussion about what had occurred, he said he would check anyway. He then turned up and told me there was an issue with one connection being loose. A speed test sow the downland speed has now doubled.

A down vote to the internet provider saying the problem was fixed but at the same time an half up vote for arranging for an NBN technician to check it out. The half because they didn't tell me.

 

[sptrawler]

Priceless, the taxpayer puts in the NBN for the telco's, so that the telco's can charge more for content and now everyone is on the drip the cost just keeps cranking up. I hope the ACCC cans the price rises.

NBN prices to ‘double over the next decade’​

A redacted submission to the competition regulator shows prices for entry level plans will climb as high as $104 per month, which retailers have called ‘a slap in the face’ for consumers.

 

[mullokintyre]

That is an assumption, being a sparky what the Libs did was cut the most time consuming part from the job, getting the cable from the street into the house.
That part of the job would have added a huge amount to the labor content, the fact is the whole system will be obsolete within 20 years, people want the ability to take their internet on the go, so 5G and wireless will take over the bulk of private usage.
The NBN will be used for big business data streaming, because it is secure point to point and their connection will be fibre all the way.
With regard private residential, the NBN will end up just being cable T.V and fibre to the house isn't really required. If someone does want it they will be able to get their provider to upgrade their cable to the node. Got to go (kids)

A very prescient comment from @sptrawler .
From The Evil Murdoch empire

The NBN faces a slide in demand as retailers ramp up the sales pitch on cheaper, faster 5G offerings – as the competition watchdog considers a proposal from the broadband network that could see internet bills double in a decade.
More than a quarter of Australians consider their phone and internet costs to be unaffordable, a recent study from the Australian Communications Consumer Action Network (ACCAN) found, and retailers are now increasingly pushing wireless 5G plans which in many cases are superior – and less expensive – than those offered by NBN.

In May TPG’s subsidiary brands launched a new $60 per month 5G home internet service that the telco said offers superior value compared to NBN’s 50 megabit per second plans and is particularly customers keeping a close eye on their budget. Home 5G typically offers speeds of between 100 and 600 megabits per second, which in many cases is as much as 12-times the speed of NBN’s 50 megabits per second plans.
TPG executives say the migration of every 100,000 NBN customers back onto its own infrastructure represents around $50m in annual savings for the telco.

Since launching its 4G and 5G home broadband services last year, it has signed up more than 110,000 customers nationally.

Unfortunately for us out here in regional Australia, we are unlikely to see much of the vaunted 5G services.
The short range of the 5G network mean that a lot of Antenna have to be mounted to provide coverage, so it will be uneconomic in less populated areas.
So we will be saddled with higher prices for a slower service.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

Well it wasn't as though blind Freddy, couldn't see this was going to happen.

Except for rusted on fan club members. ?

NBN sliced and diced by wireless 5G

NBN Co’s pricing proposal lodged with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) claimed that “accelerating” competition from mobile broadband is threatening the market share and viability of the National Broadband Network (NBN). It is easy to see why. A typical 50mbps download...

www.macrobusiness.com.au

The growing competition from 5G is making the NBN increasingly uneconomic.

NBN Co’s huge fixed costs (estimated to be $57 billion by 2024) requires the lion’s share of Australian households to be signed up in order to deliver a commercial return.

But with significant numbers of households abandoning the NBN for wireless alternatives, these fixed costs are being spread over a smaller user base – a situation that will only worsen if NBN continues to lose market share.

With this background in mind, it is easy to understand why NBN Co will cut 500 jobs (out of 4650) in order to lower its cost base and make it more competitive.

Chief executive Stephen Rue broke the news to employees at an all-staff meeting on Tuesday afternoon, stating the NBN’s “environment is changing”.

“The competition NBN faces to win and retain customers is intensifying”, Rue said via email. “Continuing to deliver on our purpose of lifting the digital capability of Australia means navigating these changes”.

Rue said the changes would “simplify” the company and cut duplication, making NBN “more commercially and operationally efficient”.

“They will make NBN leaner. Our employee base across the company will reduce by around 500 people, or about 10%”.

It is understood that the cuts will mostly impact managerial roles, with NBN Co “seeking to preserve and grow field-based roles associated with its national fibre upgrade program, and the ongoing upgrades to its fixed wireless and satellite network”.

However, they do not change the underlying poor economics of the NBN, which will become even more challenging as mobile technologies evolve and continue to steal market share.

 

[sptrawler]

A very prescient comment from @sptrawler .
From The Evil Murdoch empire

Unfortunately for us out here in regional Australia, we are unlikely to see much of the vaunted 5G services.
The short range of the 5G network mean that a lot of Antenna have to be mounted to provide coverage, so it will be uneconomic in less populated areas.
So we will be saddled with higher prices for a slower service.
Mick

The eldest son is on a 100acre block down South, way out of town, they have three teenagers and use satellite internet.

There is also the option now of Tesla starlink satellite, but the son said it is still a bit expensive.

Starlink

High-speed internet. Available almost anywhere on Earth.

www.starlink.com

Starlink Australia: Satellite internet plans, prices, speeds

See how Elon Musk's Starlink satellite internet compares to Australian Sky Muster NBN, 4G and 5G plans.

www.whistleout.com.au

Elon Musk's space internet solution Starlink is now available to order Australia-wide. Satellite internet has long been accepted as a solution for regional and rural Australians, but it's typically been much slower and less reliable than what is available in metro areas. Starlink, however, promises speeds similar to NBN 100, which could be a major boon for those after faster rural connectivity. Interested? Here's everything you need to know about Starlink.

Then in a few years, we have 6G.
6G internet is expected to launch commercially in 2030. The technology makes greater use of the distributed radio access network (RAN) and the terahertz (THz) spectrum to increase capacity, lower latency and improve spectrum sharing.

As I said in the early days of the NBN, it will end up being great for secure data transfer for business, but in the end the main use the household will use it for will be cable T.V, which will end up closing down free to air so that the frequencies can be used for wireless internet.
Taxpayer funded brainfart, that upgraded the infrastructure so that the companies like Telstra, Vodaphone, Optus etc could sell you the same internet product for twice the price.
Myself and the next door neighbour in Mandurah still use wireless and there is an optical fibre box on the wall of both our places. They were the first places to get optical connections at the beginning of the roll out, about 12 years ago. ?

 

[sptrawler]

Well even the NBN agrees with me now lol, just saw the latest advert from NBN.
More speed means more streaming, more working from home and more gaming.
Yep $80 billion so that the unemployed aren't bored at home, meanwhile the minimum cost to the user has doubled.

 

[sptrawler]

Netflix sharing under the spotlight, not that I have netflix.

Netflix is cracking down on password sharing. Is the golden age of streaming services over?

Netflix is making account holders pay to share their passwords with people they don't live with, heralding a new phase in the evolution of streaming services. Let's unpack what this means for the future of entertainment.

www.abc.net.au