The ScoMo Government

[macca]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/thi...about-the-nsw-mega-fires-20191110-p5395e.html

So is this bloke credible?

I seem to recall that this bloke was part of the Koperberg empire, he has been indoctrinated with the current vogue rather than learn from the past.

When Mr Koperberg started the RFS he centralised all the power by removing authority from the local captains and brigades to conduct burns when the opportunity arises.

This resulted in dozens of senior firies resigning, decades of experience in local conditions walked out the door because they were regarded as has beens.

Local captains know their local flora, they know the hot spots, they know where the natural fire breaks are, they know which neighbours will help, who has bulldozers, which pub to ring to round up a crew etc

I have seen interviews with Shane Fitzsimmons he seems a very well intentioned person but he is part of the new era that rely heavily on big budget fire fighting.

They were very confident that with all their very expensive, new fangled equipment they could stop nature whenever they wanted, pure arrogance !

Unfortunately, nature demonstrated once again just who is boss and people, flora and fauna have paid a very dear price.

This quote from that article proves my point that they have it completely ass about

<<Warmer, drier conditions with higher fire danger are preventing agencies from conducting as much hazard reduction burning – it is often either too wet, or too dry and windy to burn safely. Blaming "greenies" for stopping these important measures is a familiar, populist, but basically untrue claim>>

So they are actually saying "Gee, the weather is getting hotter, this increases the fire risk so we better not reduce the fuel load, lets just let it build up and see what happens"

Now they know, what happened is Exactly what they were told would happen when they changed the rules, Now they want to rewrite history to cover their butts

Surely to heaven, if we are having warmer, drier weather then it becomes absolutely imperative that we burn off Every winter

If winter is warmer then surely summer will also be warmer too ?

Just crazy, if it was not so tragic it would be laughable

another link about how it should be done

https://www.australianwildlife.org/our-work/fire-management-program/

 

[Humid]

https://reneweconomy.com.au/were-ou...atically-quits-australian-solar-sector-33796/

Coal,gas and nuclear

 

[Logique]

And you reckon they were Labor voters
Spare me

On this share forum, we tend to like shares as a pathway to wealth. It's called free enterprise.

The Bowen-omics brand ALP (Albo has since woken up) saw a only binary system where you are either:
- in a Unionized job, with your superannuation going into a Union-controlled industry fund
OR
- on welfare

But some people exist in between, which is their right. Just as some blue collar workers make $250k, as Bill Shorten found out in WA, and they don't appreciate being labelled the "Top End of Town".

And self-funded retirees, doing their bit to ease the govt burden of aged pension payments.

I don't believe for a minute that Labor won't have another go at franking

 

[Logique]

I seem to recall that this bloke was part of the Koperberg empire, he has been indoctrinated with the current vogue rather than learn from the past.

When Mr Koperberg started the RFS he centralised all the power by removing authority from the local captains and brigades to conduct burns when the opportunity arises.

This resulted in dozens of senior firies resigning, decades of experience in local conditions walked out the door because they were regarded as has beens.

Local captains know their local flora, they know the hot spots, they know where the natural fire breaks are, they know which neighbours will help, who has bulldozers, which pub to ring to round up a crew etc

I have seen interviews with Shane Fitzsimmons he seems a very well intentioned person but he is part of the new era that rely heavily on big budget fire fighting.

They were very confident that with all their very expensive, new fangled equipment they could stop nature whenever they wanted, pure arrogance !

Unfortunately, nature demonstrated once again just who is boss and people, flora and fauna have paid a very dear price.

This quote from that article proves my point that they have it completely ass about

<<Warmer, drier conditions with higher fire danger are preventing agencies from conducting as much hazard reduction burning – it is often either too wet, or too dry and windy to burn safely. Blaming "greenies" for stopping these important measures is a familiar, populist, but basically untrue claim>>

So they are actually saying "Gee, the weather is getting hotter, this increases the fire risk so we better not reduce the fuel load, lets just let it build up and see what happens"

Now they know, what happened is Exactly what they were told would happen when they changed the rules, Now they want to rewrite history to cover their butts

Surely to heaven, if we are having warmer, drier weather then it becomes absolutely imperative that we burn off Every winter

If winter is warmer then surely summer will also be warmer too ?

Just crazy, if it was not so tragic it would be laughable

another link about how it should be done

https://www.australianwildlife.org/our-work/fire-management-program/

Spot on Macca. He is a Koperberg protege. Seems to gets his lines on fuel reduction from NPWS.

Winter time is for going up to the snow mate. Summer time is the glory moment, big airplanes and media appearances with the Premier.

Too bad about all the houses and lives, and dead possums.

 

[Logique]

https://reneweconomy.com.au/were-ou...atically-quits-australian-solar-sector-33796/
Coal,gas and nuclear

Yes, yes and yes from me. Electricity is fast becoming a luxury item.
Hard to install solar panels in an apartment block (before it cracks up, for those in Sydney)

 

[Humid]

Yes, yes and yes from me. Electricity is fast becoming a luxury item.
Hard to install solar panels in an apartment block (before it cracks up, for those in Sydney)

Good for jobs not sure about the environment

Luxury?
$5 for a flat white
WA power bills are 60 days
Spot the luxury

 

[sptrawler]

https://reneweconomy.com.au/were-ou...atically-quits-australian-solar-sector-33796/

Coal,gas and nuclear

Saturation of solar is a good thing, now storage and grid infrastructure will be increased, then the solar will take off again.
It is a natural process, when replacing an established system, with a new system that works in a completely opposite manner.
IMO it is going really well.

 

[Smurf1976]

Coal,gas and nuclear

As has been said many times, it can be made to work and done so in an economical manner but we need to get the clowns out of the way in order to do so.

The way it is right now, Australia, Victoria in particular, is heading toward an outright train wreck with energy supply as existing infrastructure reaches the end of its life and nowhere near enough is being done to replace it in a technically robust manner.

 

[Smurf1976]

Saturation of solar is a good thing, now storage and grid infrastructure will be increased, then the solar will take off again.

It's an extremely chaotic means of going about it but it could just work in the end.......

I'm not convinced but it could.

It could be done more cheaply in a more organised manner though that I'm sure of.

 

[sptrawler]

It's an extremely chaotic means of going about it but it could just work in the end.......

I'm not convinced but it could.

It could be done more cheaply in a more organised manner though that I'm sure of.

The grid would still need upgrading and as the articles say, the problems that are surfacing are unexpected, if it was Government organised all the solar farms would probably be on a take or pay contract.
So now while we wait for the grid to be re configured, the taxpayer would be paying for the output, even though it can't be used.
As it is the private sector want to invest in solar, because in reality it is a cheap one of capital cost, that pays out for years.
So there will always be investors available especially while there is coal on the system, the solar/wind beats the coal and will push the coal off the bars, this will be more pronounced when storage is introduced into the system.
So I think the Government shouldn't get involved untill they are required, too often Government policy is formulated before the issues are identified, then we end up paying double for something because we headed down the wrong track in the first place.

 

[Humid]

Saturation of solar is a good thing, now storage and grid infrastructure will be increased, then the solar will take off again.
It is a natural process, when replacing an established system, with a new system that works in a completely opposite manner.
IMO it is going really well.

My roof top solar was approved by Synergy and Western power the day it was lodged
3days later they updated the meter

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes, we are generaly talking about the Eastern States grid, they have the problem.

I'll refine that to saying that the problem is primarily one affecting NSW (incl ACT), Vic and SA.

Qld and Tas are part of the same grid but in much better shape with the latter in particular having not much tolerance for nonsense.

 

[sptrawler]

My roof top solar was approved by Synergy and Western power the day it was lodged
3days later they updated the meter

My reply seems to have been lost so this is a re post, what I said was, we generally are talking about Eastern States issues.
W.A is an islanded grid with plenty of options, I would think W.A will be coal free within 15 years.

 

[sptrawler]

With regard coal generally, I would guess we will be exporting coal to third World Countries for power production, for a long time.
It is easy to transport, has high calorific value and is safe and easy to handle, therefore the third World Countries will use it, until they are in a position to integrate and update to new more expensive technology and fuel.

 

[qldfrog]

until they are in a position to integrate and update to new more expensive technology and fuel.

Why the hell would they..or any sensible person?
Only government spending someone else money would do that
There is a ROI on anything except socislism/state governed decisions
Rephrase it
We will still be exporting coal in 50-100y until our government forbids it

 

[Logique]

Bjorn Lomborg was run out of the country by the universities, and he is a warmist! What hope do we have for an electricity supply not requiring a second mortgage..

Premier Berejiklian for starters can turn off the electricity inter-connector to the Peoples Republic of Victoria. Let them have wind turbines along St Kilda beach. One day the Vic -tariat will wake up to Chairman Dan.

Our high energy prices are a national embarrassment..Matt Canavan - I would shout at the PM too given the chance. Someone has to..

 

[Smurf1976]

The reason Australia is “out of line” on energy costs has a lot more to do with market structure and governance than with the method of generation.

A point that sends politicians on both sides ducking for cover is simply to mention that AGL offered lower gas prices, in real terms so taking inflation into account, back when it was a monopoly than it does today in a competitive market.

AGL has always been investor owned, indeed it’s one of the oldest companies in Australia dating back to 1837, but on the government side well Tasmania went in the opposite direction. The Hydro (100% government owned) bought out the only significant competitor and promptly cut electricity prices.

Both of those are entirely rational outcomes and not at all surprising in view of the underlying economics of the gas and electricity industries.

Trouble is, we’ve got people in government making decisions who genuinely don’t understand why that’s the case and they’re stuffing it up on a grand scale much to the dismay of everyone from engineers and manufacturers through to environmentalists and social welfare groups.

The best thing the politicians could do is completely remove themselves and their ideas from the equation.

 

[SirRumpole]

The best thing the politicians could do is completely remove themselves and their ideas from the equation.

In the current climate of political ratbaggery I would have to agree.

There doesn't appear to be a Chifley/Menzies bipartisanship these days that was needed to build the Snowy Mountains scheme.

Maybe Snowy Hydro 2.0 goes part of the way, but the rest is just political point scoring about the "unsightliness" of wind turbines or other quibbles that stand in the way of politicians vested interests.

 

[Humid]

My reply seems to have been lost so this is a re post, what I said was, we generally are talking about Eastern States issues.
W.A is an islanded grid with plenty of options, I would think W.A will be coal free within 15 years.

Not lost at all
Just highlighting what a circus the east coast is
Sometimes isolation is a good thing

 

[basilio]

This quote from that article proves my point that they have it completely ass about

<<Warmer, drier conditions with higher fire danger are preventing agencies from conducting as much hazard reduction burning – it is often either too wet, or too dry and windy to burn safely. Blaming "greenies" for stopping these important measures is a familiar, populist, but basically untrue claim>>

So they are actually saying "Gee, the weather is getting hotter, this increases the fire risk so we better not reduce the fuel load, lets just let it build up and see what happens"

Black equals white award.
First prize with Distinction.

Macca the first statement is totally on the ball. Surely you can only do fuel reduction burns safely when weather and environment conditions allow to you start a cool burn fire with the realistic belief you can contain it. There is always a risk of these fires getting away and the CFA just use their judgement and pray like hell the situation doesn't change.

What happens when it goes wrong ?

Back-burning devastates Wilson's Promontory
PRINT FRIENDLY EMAIL STORY
The World Today - Monday, 4 April , 2005 12:42:00

Reporter: Rachel Carbonell

TANYA NOLAN: Now to the bizarre story of an official burn-off that has devastated one of Victoria's prime tourist attractions.

7,000 hectares of one of the Garden State's most spectacular and iconic national parks has been burnt out in a massive bushfire lit by a State Government department. The blaze is still burning out of control at Wilson's Promontory on Victoria's far east coastline, and 500 campers have been evacuated.

https://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1337684.htm

The whole story is worth reading because it illustrates the challenge and reality of what the experienced fire fighters are saying.
Does that make sense ?