# CSS - Clean Seas Seafood



## LifeisShort (1 February 2007)

Has anyone been following this stock or is interested? Market cap 29million in a sustainable, growth industry. Looks like it might be a good year for CSS....lot to like about the company......positive eps and growing revenue etc.


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## malachii (1 February 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have been following this company since it floated although I DONT own shares in it.  It is a great business in a really great industry - lets face it - we all know that there is less and less fish in the seas and it's only going to get worse.  Management has a lot of experience in the industry and seem to be delivering on what they promise.  However the share price is up 100% on it's float price in about a year and up over 150% on it's low for the year so is there still value in the stock????  I'd say so but I wouldn't expect to see it double again over the next 12 months.  Another option may be to look at the convertable prefs - they pay a fixed 10%??? (not sure that's correct so check it out first) on issue price and convert in about 2 years.

A similiar stock is AAQ - has Barramundi instead of Tuna and operates mainly in the USA but same industry, good managment and has a stake in a tuna company in Perth.

malachii


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## adobee (2 April 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The article below was published last week. As I understand it clean seas are set to be come first breeders of Southern bluefin tuna. As they successfully do this on other fish you would think it is only a matter of time until they do with the sbtuna. And from the looks of the article it will be very soon.
THE QUESTION IS WHAT EFFECT WILL SUCCESSFUL BREEDING OF SBTUNA HAVE ON THE SHARE PRICE? ANY FEELINGS WOULD BE APPRECIATED, I UNDERSTAND THE SHARE PRICE HAS INCREASED ABOUT 12% ON THE BASIS OF THE MALES SPAWNING?



> "Clean Seas set to breed bluefin tuna"
> Wednesday Mar 28 11:16 AEST
> South Australian fish exporter Clean Seas Tuna Ltd has successfully induced spawning among male southern bluefin tuna housed at its aquaculture breeding facility on the Eyre Peninsular.
> 
> ...


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## adobee (4 April 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS taking running today at a surge of 17%..
why does everything take of just prior to me making a purchase.


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## ormond (10 June 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am expecting the release of more breeding results very shortly.My broker suggests everything is still on track and i think there is still some major upside in the share price to come shortly!Have not seen many postings on this company but was wondering what other people think?:fish::fish:


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## FI$H (17 June 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, I think that they are giving the females a few more months before they cut them open... There are still some technical challenges ahead and I count on a few set-backs or delays firmly believing in Murphy's law. With investors support the life-cycle will be closed sooner or later (one way or the other). Investors know now that the company can master breeding of SBT and with huge profits in sight they will back CSS even in a worst case scenarios like breeding stock loss which could cause long delays till production.The question is not if but when big money is being made. Kingfish and Mulloway production (both very popular in Japan) is already in place and further rapid growth can be expected. I wouldn't be too worried about upcoming rival Western Kingfish Ltd. as they are still at least 2 years away from kingfish production and global demand is higher and growing faster than both companies could meet together.   
What I don't like about CSS is that the company is almost entirely (approx. 75%) owned by Hagen Stehr and I hope that he doesn't take the company private by integrating it back into the Stehr group now with most technical aspects solved. My gut feeling tells me that Hagen Stehr is a very visionary man who will soon after the life-cycle is closed raise further capital to scale-up production as quickly as possible. In the long run tuna and kingfish farming will probably have to answer some of the sustainability questions that salmon farming is currently facing. this is however a bigger concern for NBT production in the northern hemisphere (Mediterranean Sea)  and less problematic compared to salmon with Japan being the target market.
Trading volumes of CSS are very low with most stocks being hold by Hagen Stehr and institutional investors. Prices surge dramatically after good news. It's probably best to go with the old saying "buy on the rumor sell on the news"! Low volumes cause high volatility and a big spread. My sentiment is that it's a good time to get in and to stick with it long-term if you can handle its intrinsic risks. Compare the market-cap of CSS to the current annual value of the Australian tuna industry...
Have a look at AAQ and CAQ if health and sustainability is an issue for you. The two companies are more likely to grow extremely fast on European and north American markets with a truly green product(well, as green as it gets). All three stocks AAQ, CAQ, CSS offer a good way to make money without having too much blood on your hands. :shoot:


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## ormond (13 October 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Noticed a nice price rise this week from 1.35 to 1.65 on increasing volume over the last couple of days.
Has been very quiete on the news front recently in reguards to the SBT breeding program so i'm wondering if there is some upcoming news based on recent price,volume movements?


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## hongwong (10 November 2007)

*CSS -- Clean Sea Tuna*

Any make heads or tails of this trading halt ?

It seems this company has alot of small intrest parties, just wondering if ppl have heard about this company


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## rustyheela (10 November 2007)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A John West subsidiary - "simplot Aust." has taken a 5% stake in this company as part of a $33 million capital raising. Simplot will inject $2.7 m into company. there is also a insto placement @ 1 for 8 rights issue @ $ 1.35. will resume trading on monday. Last week they also successfully introduced new technology of introducing tuna to open sea pens with less stress n losses of fish as previously.
 company has been round for ions with Hagen Stehr as boss with 40 years experience in tuna fishing over Port Lincoln way in South Australia


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## Morgan (6 January 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, finally a good day yesterday for CSS with a 10%+ jump on no news. The jump was on low volume so hopefully this means sellers are drying up after the recent decline in the SP back towards the heavily discounted placement/rights issue price.
A sign of good things to come??

A similar jump in price for Australis Aquaculture AAQ, although this being on the news of a big increase in sales quarter-on-quarter.


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## ormond (6 January 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Ord Minnett only recently released a comprehensive report on CSS which is worth the read if you can get your hands on it.
Even allowing for some delays in the SBT life cycle the shares are worth hanging on to with plenty of income from the Kingfish farming.
Have held from 70c so am more than happy to hold as a long term play.


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## ormond (3 March 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

One step closer to completing the SBT life cycle.

Clean seas tuna has had a successful spawning event of their broodstock tuna and needs time to determine the degree of success[maturity of eggs,whether fertilised or not]

In a trading halt till wednesday

I believe a success will eventually lead to a reduction of their kingfish business as the margins in SBT are much higher.


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## michael_selway (3 March 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



ormond said:


> One step closer to completing the SBT life cycle.
> 
> Clean seas tuna has had a successful spawning event of their broodstock tuna and needs time to determine the degree of success[maturity of eggs,whether fertilised or not]
> 
> ...




Hm i cant understand these fish companies (TGR = Salmon), they seem to have been well in the past few years

*Earnings and Dividends Forecast (cents per share) 
2007 2008 2009 2010 
EPS 0.9 0.3 4.1 6.4 
DPS 0.0 0.3 1.2 2.7 *

Business Description 
Clean Seas Tuna Limited (CSS) is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Stehr Groups aquaculture holding company, Australian Tuna Fisheries Pty Ltd. Clean Seas run a licensed fingerling hatchery at Arno Bay, South Australia where they also will build a facility for broodstock production. The core business is the propagation of commercially bred Southern Bluefin Tuna, Mulloway and Kingfish for the domestic market and international consumption. 

thanks

MS


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## FI$H (11 March 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

We're down a bit on low-volume which doesn't say much. I was surprised about the high turn-over (2.5 million shares) for ~2$ in the days shortly after breeding success was announced. I expected more given the good news (female spawning, fertilization and hatching).  I wonder who sold that many stocks and why.


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## adobee (18 March 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Big storey on abc tonight about clean seas tuna about ten minutes to fifteen minutes.. I am not sure if it was news or insight etc.. gave a great speal about the first ever fertilised eggs and the boss and that the sky was now the limit..


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## truevalue (19 March 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The company is very excited about this breakthrough because the returns on Southern Bluefin Tuna (SBT) production will be huge.

The current Australian production of SBT is 5000 tonnes which is worth $200-$250 million in sales p.a. in the Japanese wholesale markets. By breeding SBT in captivity CSS can effectively produce at least 5000 tonnes themselves and even have aspirations to produce 10,000. Assuming they produce 5,000 tonnes initially (they have 5000 tonnes of kingfish in the water now after just 3 years) then those fish will be worth $200-$250 million in sales and $100-$150 million in pre-tax profit. Not bad for a company with a market cap of $300m and no debt. If production rose to 10,000 tonnes..... well you can do the numbers. 

The big advantage CSS have producing SBT is that SBT sells for $40-$50/kg in wholesale markets whereas salmon and kingfish sells for only $10-$12/kg. Premium sushi meat is well worth the effort.

When they say the skys the limit they are not joking!


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## truevalue (8 April 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There is an analyst/broker tour to Port Lincoln and Arno Bay this Friday so it should be interesting next week.

This interview with Bloomberg is worth watching:


http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/v9uQA9WTx7aU.asf


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## tge oracle (8 April 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, the broker presentations should be interesting. Somebody seems to be intent on selling out heavily since spawning / fertilization news was released a last month ......wonder why? Not many buyers on the screen!


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## tge oracle (8 May 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like nothing much has changed since my last post i.e. not much support for the stock. I am surprised by the negative response to the SBT fertilization news.


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## urgalzmine (8 May 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Looks like nothing much has changed since my last post i.e. not much support for the stock. I am surprised by the negative response to the SBT fertilization news.




have patience my friend, this is a good food stock  long time investment dont worry about this short term stuff.


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## FI$H (13 May 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The CSS managment has  so far been very cautious and conservative  with predictions and mostly surpassed them. In their recent investor presentation they suggest 5000t production with margins of 10$ per kg for SBT (FY 2011/2012). 7500t (very likely to be higher) of Kingfish with 3$ per kg margin (provided the farmgate price recedes to 8.5 $)  for FY 2011. This translates to more than 70 million dollar operating profit.  compare this to 250 million market capitalization and price-in the company's further future growth potential. 

Right now the stock trades at a price-level that is lower than what it was before announcing the breeding success with SBT which is paradox. The stock is simply following the markets on very low volumes. SBT rearing will cost the company a fortune initially requiring them to raise more capital and probably issue more discounted shares. Shareholders that like to expand their position could strike a good deal if the stock trades very low on average till the end of the year...


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## tge oracle (27 June 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Someone sold a large parcel of shares yesterday, off market. I wonder who it was? and why? 
I guess there will be an ASX change in substantial holding notice submitted soon.
Hopefully, this signals the bottom of the sell off since SBT fertilization news!


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## FI$H (27 June 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Someone sold a large parcel of shares yesterday, off market. I wonder who it was? and why?
> I guess there will be an ASX change in substantial holding notice submitted soon.
> Hopefully, this signals the bottom of the sell off since SBT fertilization news!




Hopefully... I don't expect much upside until SBT fingerling commercialization has been finalized. This can take a while. We'll have to wait for the next earnings reports and see what the kingfish story is. I wonder how exchange rates/production costs/ production volumes/ food prices/ environmental situations/ etc develop and affect earnings.


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## tge oracle (27 June 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Hopefully... I don't expect much upside until SBT fingerling commercialization has been finalized. This can take a while. We'll have to wait for the next earnings reports and see what the kingfish story is. I wonder how exchange rates/production costs/ production volumes/ food prices/ environmental situations/ etc develop and affect earnings.




Yes, there are a few unanswered questions. The sell off in the stock has me wondering why. I mean, the news was very postive, I hope we are not being given just the edited highlights....I would ilke to know the full picture.
One thing that has been bothering since the news was released is what happened to the larvae? why didn't they progress them to fingerlings?
It would add a lot more confidence to the stock if they at least grew a few fish to the juvenile stage and beyond. Perhaps the seller knows more than we do!


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## FI$H (28 July 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Somebody must have seen this coming: 

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00863646


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## tge oracle (29 July 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Somebody must have seen this coming:
> 
> http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00863646




Yes, FISH , I must confess that I had lost faith in this comapny over the past few months and having invested since the beginning I am now out of them.
I had concerns about the lack of information on the SBT breeding e.g. 

1. How many fertilsed eggs did they achieve? 
2. How many reached larvae stage?
3. What happened to the larvae?
4. Why didn't hey grow a few out to fingerling stage?

Since the investor update, I have even more questions:

1. The European NBT company achieved 10 Million larvae , how will this affect market demand if another company is able to breed so many fish?
2. They achieved the same result, possibly much better, by breeding in sea pens. No need for expensive shore tanks / facilities. Have CSS pursued the wrong plan?
3. Is the CSS breeding facility in the best location. I mean Port Lincoln is very cold most of the year. The fish only breed in warm water. Should it have been located in a warmer climate e.g. Darwin?

I think the only value in this company will be in the YTK production for quite some considerable time and that appears to be losing money!


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## truevalue (9 September 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This Stock is worth looking at again below 80c.

This year the company is on track to sell 4,000 tonnes of King Fish, which at current farmgate prices of $10/kilo, equates to $40m in revenue. 4,000 tonnes gives CSS scale to be profitable this year and EBIT should be around $12m ($3/kilo). Year end debt will be around $20m which gives an interest cost of $2m so NPAT should be 12-2-3(tax)=$7m or 4.5 cents/share.

Added to which, this summer CSS expects a "significant number" of fertilsed Southern Bluefin Tuna eggs which will give them enough to ensure a commercial production of fingerlings. The great thing about SBT is they grow faster than Kingfish and they sell for more than double/kilo at the farmgate. If CSS produce "just" 5,000 tonnes of SBT that will equal $100 million in revenue and at least $50m in EBIT. CSS expects to conservatively double that number.

This company will be significantly higher in 6 months time and you should consider doing some serious research into this industry because acquaculture is where most of our fish will come from in 10 years and CSS has a major first-mover advantage especially in SBT


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## tge oracle (16 September 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Here is an interesting article form the Australian which appears to validate my concerns about this company. They have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned. It is obvious some shareholders knew about this , which explains the relentless selling since the SBT news.
I can't understand why they had to wait for the annual results to tell us that there were only a modest number of larvae which did not progress beyond this stage. 

Disclosure - I no longer hold CSS shares

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24128600-5012436,00.html


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## truevalue (29 September 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes Oracle I can see why you would be disappointed with management, especially on the eggs to fingerlings announcements (or lack thereof). My understanding at the time of the announcement was that it was never going to be a commercial run of eggs (because there were not enough of them) and that the larvae were to be subjected to a number of experiments to determine the best process for getting fingerlings.

I think the Stuart Wilson article prbably misses a couple of points though. Firstly the profit warning came in July as a result of lower growth rates than expected in May and June. This is hardly a delayed announcement given they could not possibly know growth rates for May and June until July.

Second the lower farm-gate prices were the result of a new frozen product they are selling into international markets and are more susceptible to exchange rate fluctuations. Who would have predicted the rapid rise in the $A from January through to June.

I have been buying a few as the stock falls but I am cautious about getting too agressive. I think November to January will be a good time to build a position - just before the next spawning.


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## tge oracle (8 October 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Yes Oracle I can see why you would be disappointed with management, especially on the eggs to fingerlings announcements (or lack thereof). My understanding at the time of the announcement was that it was never going to be a commercial run of eggs (because there were not enough of them) and that the larvae were to be subjected to a number of experiments to determine the best process for getting fingerlings.
> 
> I think the Stuart Wilson article prbably misses a couple of points though. Firstly the profit warning came in July as a result of lower growth rates than expected in May and June. This is hardly a delayed announcement given they could not possibly know growth rates for May and June until July.
> 
> ...




Good luck Truevalue. I would be very cautious about on this stock and wouldn't be so sure about breeding success over summer. I believe there is still a lot they haven't told us and their new relationship with Kinki University suggests to me that they don't have the ability to succeed on their own. I may be wrong....but I no longer trust them. I will continue to keep an eye on developments.


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## tge oracle (31 October 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

As reported in my last post that I would keep an eye on developments at CSS.

Since my last thread there have been a number of changes:

1. The share price has continued it's dramatic fall ( now around 34c )
2. The Oz dollar has lost 35-40 %.
3. Rabobank have extended their overdraft to CSS.

Having had time to reflect on my dissapointment regarding the SBT breeding disclosures earlier this year, I have decided to re-invest in CSS.

I have re-invested for the following reasons:

1. The share price attributes little or no vlaue to the SBT program, it essentially reflects the YTK business. I base this vlautaion on the continuing expansion of the YTK business and demand for the product.
2. The fall in the Oz Dollar will make it easier to market and sell overseas and , hopefully, result in many new clients and increased orders.
3. The Rabobank extension takes away the need to tap the market               ( investors ) for more funds. Although it is not ideal to go further in to debt the increase in biomass and earlier production projection explains the need for more funds.

Other ( optimistic ) reasons for re-investing are:

1. The possibility of SBT breeding success on a commercial scale.
2. The liason with Kinki University, which I was originally sceptical about, does make sense. They have achieved breeding and growout success and their knowledge should benefit CSS.
3. Finally, If the Stehr Goup are serious about their loyal shareholders we all need to be in the same boat together. I believe the catch and grow business should be a part of CSS. It is somewhat a conflict of interest to have them involved in this, highly profitable , aspect of the business at the exclusion of their loyal share holders. I hope that they will recognise shareholder loyalty as they will need our suppoirt ( read funds ) to move forward and inlude them in the catch and grow aspect of the business.

Finally, I will have no hesitation to dump this stock, for good, if I am disappointed again and I am not talking about the fact that things may not go as planned, thats a risk we all take. I am talking about open and transparent reporting to all shareholdrers on all aspects of the business.

I hope I will be posting postive threads in the future.

Disclosure: I have re-invested in CSS shares, hopefully, for many years to come !


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## truevalue (4 November 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Oracle you are a stock mover and shaker. 34c to 45c in 3 days. Hopefully there are plenty of legs left in this one.


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## tge oracle (5 November 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Oracle you are a stock mover and shaker. 34c to 45c in 3 days. Hopefully there are plenty of legs left in this one.




I doubt the share price movements have anything to do with my threads, I suspect it is more likley attributed to investors thinking like me on issues discussed in my earlier post. In particular the recent annonuncement concerning additional funding from Rabobank. It is not easy, in the present financial climate, to get funds from any bank....they aren't even lending to each other! It is encouraging that they have provided additinal funds to CSS.
They are obviously comfortable with the longer term growth prospects of this company and it's ability to re-pay debt. I suspect ( read - hopeful ) that CSS may become cash flow positive again in the not too distant future and will not end up drawing down all of these funds.

In connection with my last post re - catch and grow business, it is esential that any proposal to sell the catch anf grow business to share holders also includes a share in the " wild catch tuna licence". It would be totally unacceptable, to me, to purchase only the catch and grow infrastructure and assets from the Stehr group, but not a share in the licence.
This would be like selling investors a radio station or TV station ,  i.e. all of the transmitter towers, studios, production/recording equipment, etc but not the licence to transmit or broadcast. These assets are worthless without the licecne to broacast, the same applies to the Stehr group catch and grow business. Investors should be very aware of this fact and voice their concerns to CSS. The Stehr group have not actually said they won't sell part of the licenece, but they have said there is no proposal to incoude the licenece at this stage. 

There will always be a niche market in the SBT business for wild catch tuna, even after breeding success and loyal CSS shareholders should be included in this business. I trust the Stehr group will realize that they will need the support of loyal shareholders to guarantee the future of CSS and include us in all aspects of the business.


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## tge oracle (25 November 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Although not directly related to CSS, the recent failure by Western Kingfish   ( WKL ) to succeed in the growout of its inaugural cohort of YTK demonstrates the difficulties competitors will have in trying to compete in this industry. I don't want to dwell on the dissapointment their share holders are suffering but I do see this as a significant positive for CSS as they have succesfully bred YTK for a number of years and have very stringent quality and scientifc potocols in place to ensure successful breeding of YTK.
There is obviously significant demand for YTK and the less competition the greater the benefit for CSS.


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## Basilica (11 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The relationship between CSS and the Stehr Group is even more complex than you describe. I recall reading in last years CSS annual report that CSS pays the Stern Group to grow out their fish on a per KG price. CSS does have potential to become a valuable company if they succeed in producing large quantites of SBT fingerlings. But there are big hurdles in the egg to fingerling stage to overcome. Early nutrition and disease can be a challenge and that may be where Japan comes into the picture. And last week WKL was placed in Voluntary Administration  so it is not an easy road.

PS. I do not own shares in WKL AAQ CAQ or CSS


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## Basilica (11 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I found the related party transaction i wrote of.
From the 2007 annual report. It may be avery fair price, i have no idea.

28 Related Party Transactions (Continued)
The growout fees are paid by Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (CST) to Clean Seas Aquaculture Growout Pty
Ltd (CSAG) under the terms and conditions of the Fish Husbandry Agreement disclosed as a major
contract in clause 12.11 .4 of the IPO prospectus issued in October 2005.
Under the contract CSAG is responsible for growing out Kingfish, Mulloway and Tuna on behalf
of CST. All costs of growout are born by CSAG for payment by CST per kg of growth achieved.
The initial price for growout was $5.50 per kilogram growth for Mulloway and $6.25 per kilogram
growth for Kingfish. The charge will be increased by the greater of the percentage change in the
CPI and 5%.
The company has entered into a feed supply agreement with a major feed supplier for the
provision of pellets for feeding Kingfish and Mulloway. Under the Fish Husbandry Agreement
feed costs are born by CSAG. The feed purchased by CST is on sold to CSAG at cost.


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## Basilica (12 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A closer read of the 2008 annual report shows the Purchase of CSAG by CSS that was loosing money. Would CSS have made a profit if purchase had not occured?

35 Business Combinations
(a) Summary of acquisition
On the 27th of November 2007 the company completed the purchase of 100% of the issued shares of
Clean Seas Aquaculture Growout Pty. Ltd. (CSAG) This acquisition provided key infrastructure and specialist
personnel to carry on the business of finfish growout.
The acquired business contributed revenues of $14,205,000 and net loss of $965,000 to the Group for the
period from 1 October 2007 to 30 June 2008. If the acquisition had occurred on 1 July 2007, consolidated
revenue and consolidated loss for the year ended 30 June 2008 would have been $19,205,000 and
$3,747,000 respectively.


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## tge oracle (15 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, the purchase of CSAG has contributed to their losses but in the long term the purchase of CSAG will benefit CSS as it increases fish production particulrly if they succeed with SBT.
I would be very wary of purchasing the wild catch business if they try to flog it at an inflated price and do not include as share of the wild catch licence. Without the licence they could walk away and leave investors with nothing if the business was to fail. They could then re-establih a new business on their own with the licenece. Investors could be left very vulnerable without a share of the licence. As I have said before investors need to be included in all aspects of the business. I will be keeping a close eye on what their proposal is concerning the wild cath business.


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## Basilica (15 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, the purchase of CSAG has contributed to their losses but in the long term the purchase of CSAG will benefit CSS as it increases fish production particulrly if they succeed with SBT.
> I would be very wary of purchasing the wild catch business if they try to flog it at an inflated price and do not include as share of the wild catch licence. Without the licence they could walk away and leave investors with nothing if the business was to fail. They could then re-establih a new business on their own with the licenece. Investors could be left very vulnerable without a share of the licence. As I have said before investors need to be included in all aspects of the business. I will be keeping a close eye on what their proposal is concerning the wild cath business.




Hi tge oracle, I agree investers need to be informed and it is even more important when the listed company does transactions with Pty Ltd companies that are also owed be the same players. It must be very difficult to calculate a fair price when you are buyer and seller. I checked the owner of the Sea cage leases and both CSS and CSAG own leases for sea cages, but as CSAG is a Pty Ltd company we have no way of checking what assets are included and their value. The 3.7 million loss by CSAG in one year is a concern. How did that happen? Stock loss, feed prices, slow growth? CSS should declare the full financials for the last few years of CSAG to satisfy the investors. Seems to be more than colder water temperature would cause. Have they proposed a buy out of the wild tuna catch or are you just guessing? The license for the tuna quota is worth heaps, and is the key asset for starting again.


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## tge oracle (15 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Perfect timing -

I posted my last reply 24 hours too early. I see our Chairman is extolling the success of the recent wild catch on the CSS website, can't understand why as this is of no benefit to CSS shareholders who hold no interest in the wild catch business!  What it does do though is pump up the interest in the wild catch business and price the Stehr group will hope to sell it for. 
It is commendable that they have achieved good succes in harvesting high biomass wild tuna in a short period of time but I am cautious on this report and it's underlying motive. 
I have re-invested in CSS but will not cop any of their BS as with the last SBT breeding announcments or lack there of. 

To cut to the chase - they have to deliver after nearly 3 years of no returns and a share price that is languishing below float price and report on business achievemnts that relate directly to CSS , not further aspects they wish to flog to CSS shareholders.

Anybody else have an opnion on this? FISH? Truevalue?


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## Basilica (15 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I see our Chairman is extolling the success of the recent wild catch on the CSS website, can't understand why as this is of no benefit to CSS shareholders who hold no interest in the wild catch business!




The CSS website also brags about the success of the Stehr Group ... No benifit to CSS shareholders either

"
In 2004/2005 The Stehr Group produced in excess of:

    * 650 tonnes of farmed Southern Bluefin Tuna.
    * 600 tonnes of aquaculture-bred Kingfish.
    * 200 tonnes of aquaculture-bred Mulloway.
"


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## tge oracle (16 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi tge oracle, I agree investers need to be informed and it is even more important when the listed company does transactions with Pty Ltd companies that are also owed be the same players. It must be very difficult to calculate a fair price when you are buyer and seller. I checked the owner of the Sea cage leases and both CSS and CSAG own leases for sea cages, but as CSAG is a Pty Ltd company we have no way of checking what assets are included and their value. The 3.7 million loss by CSAG in one year is a concern. How did that happen? Stock loss, feed prices, slow growth? CSS should declare the full financials for the last few years of CSAG to satisfy the investors. Seems to be more than colder water temperature would cause. Have they proposed a buy out of the wild tuna catch or are you just guessing? The license for the tuna quota is worth heaps, and is the key asset for starting again.




Hello Basilica . Yes they are planning to sell the wild catch business to shareholders but only the infrastructure and assets not the licence , refer to last annual report. There has also been media spectulation about their intenetion to sell the wild catch business. For this to be accetable for me 3 thgings have to happem-

1. A share of the licence must be included.
2. It must be at a fair price.
3. The ATF ( The Stehrs ) must maintain their overwhlming shareholding in the new business.

The reason for point 3 is simple. ATF must share the same risk exposure as its other CSS shareholders. I will accept a diliution in their holding if ,and when,  CSS achieves success with SBT breeding as the business will have passed the high risk.


----------



## Basilica (16 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Hello Basilica . Yes they are planning to sell the wild catch business to shareholders but only the infrastructure and assets not the licence , refer to last annual report. There has also been media spectulation about their intenetion to sell the wild catch business. For this to be accetable for me 3 thgings have to happem-
> 
> 1. A share of the licence must be included.
> 2. It must be at a fair price.
> ...




I still cant find any reference to purchasing the wild catch business in the 07/08 annual report??? The report is just 37 pages downloaded, can you please give me a page number or tell me which section to look in?

I agree points 1 and 2 are a must and I understand your reasons for point 3 above but think it would be impossible to enforce. I also think it is causing the conflict in the first place, If the Sterns only owned 20% the shareholders vote would have meaning. I just do not like related party transactions, why not buy the quota / business from a  different player? And even if they own most of the shares they could still profit with the total loss of their shares if a high enough price is paid for their ATF/related party businesses.


----------



## tge oracle (16 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I still cant find any reference to purchasing the wild catch business in the 07/08 annual report??? The report is just 37 pages downloaded, can you please give me a page number or tell me which section to look in?
> 
> I agree points 1 and 2 are a must and I understand your reasons for point 3 above but think it would be impossible to enforce. I also think it is causing the conflict in the first place, If the Sterns only owned 20% the shareholders vote would have meaning. I just do not like related party transactions, why not buy the quota / business from a  different player? And even if they own most of the shares they could still profit with the total loss of their shares if a high enough price is paid for their ATF/related party businesses.





Sorry it is in the business update dated 30.09.08 towards the end. There was also a news article a few weeks ago concerning this potential purchase.


----------



## Basilica (16 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Sorry it is in the business update dated 30.09.08 towards the end. There was also a news article a few weeks ago concerning this potential purchase.




Thanks tge oracle, Should they have include that info in the annual report a few weeks later, considering they said "Likely acquisition of ATF SBT catch and grow business early CY2009". ??


----------



## tge oracle (20 December 2008)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Thanks tge oracle, Should they have include that info in the annual report a few weeks later, considering they said "Likely acquisition of ATF SBT catch and grow business early CY2009". ??




I guess since there is no definate plan to sell the wild catch business at this stage it didn't warrant inclusion in the annual report.  It will be interesting to see how they structure this sale if it does go ahead. Shareholders will be expecting a fair deal from this purchase and should be rewarded for their loyalty over the past 3 years particularly if they are going to be asked to stump up more funds!

Despite by frank posts I am quietly optimistic for the future of CSS it is a very good business. They need to shake out a few disclosure and over enthusiastic mangement comment issues but being new to the public listiing arena I hope this will change.....i.e. they have learnt from past mistakes. 
They need to learn that business success will speak for itself and the market will price it accordingly. I would prefer to see a humble ,quiet achiever, approach from CSS management.

Another recent positive for CSS is the change in the workforce availibilty for CSS. They were concerned , last year, that workers were heading for the mining sector...that is reversing dramatically. CSS will have no problem attracting workers in the future.


----------



## tge oracle (3 January 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Being the start of a new year I thought I would comment on the outlook for 2009.

This year will be the watershed year for CSS. They must achieve an acceptable level of breeding success this year and successfully grow out to juvenile SBT. I am confident they will achieve this goal and that is partly why I re-invested.

The YTK business should continue to grow throughout the year with the assistance of a lower AUD and improved marketing. YTK is progressively gaining credibility as a prime table fish and it's health benbefit's ( omega 3 content ) add to it's desireability.

I will wait to see the details of any potential purchase of the catch anf grow business before commenting further. 

I won't comment specifically on the share price as I have aired my views in an earlier post. I have long held the view that once the sellers complete their transactions there will be little opportunity for investors to accumulate appreciable quantities of CSS at the current price. The sellers will evaporate as they idi back in 2006 / 2007 . Macquaire have identified themselves as a seller and I suspect this has been due to investors redeeming their funds from the Mac small cap fund ( CSS is included ) not as a result of investment choice by Mc bank analysts. They would have been selling down many other small cap stocks in the fund.
They have provided other investors with a wonderful opportunity to accumulate large volumes of CSS at a fair price......thank you for your generosity Macquaire Bank!

If eveything goes as planned CSS will be one of the great investments for 2009 and beyond. Let's all hope they can achieve success.


----------



## truevalue (6 January 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Oracle,

I sorry for the delayed reply I am not always checking this site.

I have a view that the wild catch business will be sold to CSS at the time CSS has announced a sucessful closure of the SBT life cycle and a capital raising to fund the growout of the SBT. The arguement would be that the wildcatch business would provide CSS with positive cashflow and profit during the 2 year growout period. Hagen Stehr has said he doesn't want to be diluted in CSS much below his current holding so swapping the wild catch business for more CSS stock would be one way to achieve this. The other way would be if he sold his quota to another of the Cappucino Club for cash and then re-invested that money into CSS. Either way I am confident that the Stehr family will have a very big interest in CSS and will not be using it as a vehicle into which to just dump assets.

Basilica, the reason the CSAG wasn't included in the company during the float was because investors wanted the Stehr group to guarantee the YTK cost/Kg for the first 3 years. If the stehr group did better that $7/kg they made a profit but if the costs were > $7 the the stehrs made a loss. The CSAG business was vendered into CSS at cost so the Stehrs made no money on the transaction and the cash they received for the business was pumped back into CSS shares. There are very few related party transaction in CSS now.

As to the performance of the company, management have hit virtually all their stretch targets so far and have only had one minor hiccup last year. The share price probably reflects the state of global financial markets and investors being wary of any company that may require capital in the future.

Here is hoping for a great 2009 for CSS.


----------



## tge oracle (7 January 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Gooday Truevalue, good to have you back in the discussion group. 

I understand the rationale for purchasing the catch and groew business , I just hope loyal share holders are well considered in any propsal and it is fairly priced.

I note today's announcment re-SBT courtship, hopefully this will lead to a commercial scale breeding event!
I am pleased that CSS are keeping investors well informed on this development, it would not be fair for only those close to the project to have knoweldge of htis event. Some investors may be skeptical about this release but I am more optimistic that they will indeed keep us all well informed in timely fashion on what is actullay happening. I trust they will continue with this transparent and up to date reporting.


----------



## truevalue (14 January 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have heard that there has been no damage to any CSS assets in the Port Lincoln fires. The Stehr family have had some damage to Anna's Vinyard (Hagen's wife) and some private net sheds and fabrication facilities. 

Company should make an announcement to this effect soon.


----------



## tge oracle (20 January 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thought this article might be of interest. 

Good to see the BFT market is still very strong despite these uncertain ecomonic times.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24900967-5018061,00.html


----------



## truevalue (22 January 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

You beat me to it! I just saw the article this morning. Now all we need is some tuna.

The market for kingfish must also be very strong and with the weak $A CSS should be making a solid margin, albeit with higher feed costs.


----------



## tge oracle (24 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Having digested the half year report the oulook for CSS does look to be very encouraging .

The YTK business is growing rapidly , as I had predicted late last year, with increasing sales volumes, revenue and most impotantly profit margins. I am optimistic that these will grow exponentially over the course of this year.  I note that YTK is gaining considerable interest in the US, this doesn't surprise me as YTK is very similar in texture and taste to Chilean Sea Bass ( also known as Patagonian Toothfish in Australia ) with a firm white flaky flesh which is highly regarded by American consumers. I am very confident of increasing demand in the US market. Western Kingfish Ltd were going to market their YTK in the US as they appreciated the opportunities in that market for YTK. Sadly, their business failed to succeed but it has left the door open for CSS.

Despite the financial gloom there is a growing demand for high quality seafoods around the globe. TGR is also performing well with their Salmon.

I note that SBT larvae grow system is ready for fertilised eggs and I remain hopeful of a commercial scale of fingerlings in the not too distant future.


----------



## truevalue (24 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I just hope those eggs come soon Oracle. It was the 4th of March last year that they had a spawning event, so it needs to happen soon if its going to happen this year.

I feel confident also that if they at least have a spawning now they will get fingerlings given what they have learned from their friends in Japan and Panama.

Very exciting times for the company but nerve wracking for us.


----------



## tge oracle (24 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I just hope those eggs come soon Oracle. It was the 4th of March last year that they had a spawning event, so it needs to happen soon if its going to happen this year.
> 
> I feel confident also that if they at least have a spawning now they will get fingerlings given what they have learned from their friends in Japan and Panama.
> 
> Very exciting times for the company but nerve wracking for us.




Yes, we are all eagerly awaiting breeding success which , I believe, will be achieved soon. 

SBT spend many months in the Java Sea over summer so I guess it takes quite some time, even in the wild! 
From my understanding , the longer it takes the better the clutch weight and quality of the eggs produced. This should lead to a greater probability of successful growout to SBT fingerlings in the long run.


----------



## Iron Man (25 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Unexpected good news about
a publicly-traded company... will
usually... cause the price of that
company's stock to jump up like
crazy!


----------



## truevalue (25 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I agree. Very puzzling response to some good news. I felt the announcement was slightly vague. If they have eggs, how many? Last time they had thousands. This year they need millions. Unfortuately they have made one of their usual uninformative announcements.


----------



## tge oracle (25 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I agree. Very puzzling response to some good news. I felt the announcement was slightly vague. If they have eggs, how many? Last time they had thousands. This year they need millions. Unfortuately they have made one of their usual uninformative announcements.




Yes , the announcement does lack many details, however, I am prepared to give them the benifit of doubt as they advised that the SBT have commenced spawning and until such time as they have recovered and quantified the number of eggs it may take some time to determine the level of success. 
Furthermore, I suspect that there will be more spawning events over the next month or so , not just the one reported today.
Having the Kinki University team on location significantly raises the likelyhood of success with growout.
At this stage, I believe investors have every reason to be quietly optimistic.


----------



## truevalue (25 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Given they have angered investors in the past with some fist pumping and sensationalist announcements, they may have learned the lesson not to promise anything too early. 

I know they have suffered investor ire in recent months with "you promised such and such and failed to deliver". Hagen is very quite these days, leaving Marcus to front the market. When Hagen talks about the business it is very hard not to get over enthusiastic. The man has an enviable passion for the company and a single minded work ethic to make sure the job gets done.


----------



## tge oracle (25 February 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Given they have angered investors in the past with some fist pumping and sensationalist announcements, they may have learned the lesson not to promise anything too early.
> 
> I know they have suffered investor ire in recent months with "you promised such and such and failed to deliver". Hagen is very quite these days, leaving Marcus to front the market. When Hagen talks about the business it is very hard not to get over enthusiastic. The man has an enviable passion for the company and a single minded work ethic to make sure the job gets done.




Yes, this was something I eluded too in an earlier post. I think most long term investors share Hagen's enthusiasm for CSS and it's potential but it really is up to the business to do the talking. 
I do prefer the "quite achiever" approach so long as any news material to the company is released to the market promptly, not like last year when a few learned investors got a heads up and we were all left in the dark as the share price spiralled to ,what I consider to be, an over sold position. 
I can't help thinking if they had been more open and transparent then the share price would not have been treated so harshly by investors. Most of us understand this is ground breaking technology that will face challenges. 
I am confident they will deliver in the end.


----------



## tge oracle (14 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I don't know if anybody has had a chance to view the new CSS website but I am very impressed. It has been very professionally constructed with detailed and extensive information about our company and it's products.
This is yet another example of my growing confidence in CSS and it's future. Websites provide a key window into the way a company operates. CSS, to their credit, have always manitained an up to date website that is regularly maintained. You would be surprised how many companies have very poor websites that are not up to date. It is one factor I watch for in the overall quality managemnet of a company. If they can't manage updating their website then what does this say aboiut their management of the company.
CSS are an example of a very high quality company , hence their ISO 14001 and ISO 9001 accreditation.


----------



## Basilica (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I don't know if anybody has had a chance to view the new CSS website but I am very impressed. It has been very professionally constructed with detailed and extensive information about our company and it's products.




Hi oracle, i checked the web site out, I agree it is very professional.
I would have like to see the cuts of Tuna and Mullaway displayed like the Kingfish was displayed. It has made me hungry, I think i will buy fish for lunch today. 
I recieved the latest issue of "Austasia Aquaculture" a few days ago. 2 articals of main interest.
1. Gavin Partridge of WA tafe recieved a fellowship to go to Panama to learn techniques for rearing Yellowfin Tuna Lavae.

2. 6 page artical on Australis and the Vietnam operation..... Written by Dos Osullivan, Non-Executive director of Australis.
It includes a late breaking news from the editor about the Volantary administration. MD, Josh says business as usual during restructure

My 2c on the SBT is this season will produce small number of fingerlings surviving and techniques can be used for next years spawning to produce small commercial qtys.

Interestingly spawning may not be limited to only one per year as enclosed broadstock facility can simulate any season. The current one per year may be  because their is only one large enough female and she needs a rest.

When they achieve multiple spawnings per year they gaps in knoledge willbe quickly filled.


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## truevalue (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A bit of action in the stock today. Selling has suddenly dried up. 300k shares gone thru this morning and the stock up 14% at 51.5. Hopefully a sign of some good news shortly.


----------



## Basilica (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Wow, up 26% since i said i was going to buy fish for lunch today.
I never realised the market power that i posess.


----------



## steamairship (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Maybe a leaky ship ???? Maybe a positive Ann is immanent ???? I think we have seen this before. Lots of volume.


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## nizora (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_It has gone up 40% ,as high as 63 cents. I surely smell something fishy here, could it be  a cap raising in the making?_


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## Basilica (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> _It has gone up 40% ,as high as 63 cents. I surely smell something fishy here, could it be  a cap raising in the making?_




Hi nizora, wouldnt a cap raising cause the price to fall?
Despite my promise to buy fish today. I opened a can of wild salmon from Alaska


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## truevalue (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Something fishy? Thats very funny!

Trading Halt!

Progress on its Southern Bluefin Tuna Program.

CSS is obviously saving on remuneration costs by giving employees a day to by stock ahead of good announcements.

I am joking but it looks bad all the same.


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## FI$H (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Something fishy? Thats very funny!
> 
> Trading Halt!
> 
> ...




i can't see any suspicious activity. how do you know that the announcement will be good? could be that they tell us that the breeding stock died.


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## truevalue (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Ever thought of applying for a job with ASIC Fi$h? They need people with open minds. Those suspicious types always make it unpleasant and embarassing during company interviews.


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## tge oracle (16 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Gentlemen, I didn't mention anything in my earlier post as I didn't want to appear to be pumping CSS, but the answer to your questions about the trading halt lies in the text of the new website. They had no choice but to either update the market, or, put the stock in a trading halt. Pls read the text on the SBT page two, and you will see what I mean and draw your own conclusions. This information was material to the company's future and should have been released to the market prior to dispalying the new website....an honest oversight IMO. Incidently, this should lead to positive news but I am unsure of the scale. 
I have sat through the ups and downs since 2005, apart from my brief respite last year.
I only hope CSS becomes yet another investment that I will never sell. 
I look forward to the announcement this week.


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## Basilica (17 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I only hope CSS becomes yet another investment that I will never sell.




An investment that you will never sell ???
Do you mean like WKL and AAQ?

Sorry oracle, i just could not resist that one.


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## tge oracle (17 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> An investment that you will never sell ???
> Do you mean like WKL and AAQ?
> 
> Sorry oracle, i just could not resist that one.




No worries Basilica, good for a laugh,I think you may have mis-understood me though. What I actually mean is that when I make an investment I look to hold indefinately provided the long term growth prospects are favorable, unfortunately, this does not occur with many companies for a multitude of reasons i.e. fail to deliver, too much debt ( AAQ ), catastrophic event ( WKL ) etc. so this necessitates a sell.
I only hope CSS becomes a world leading aquaculture company , that is the context in which I will continue to hold.


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## Basilica (17 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> No worries Basilica, good for a laugh,I think you may have mis-understood me though. What I actually mean is that when I make an investment I look to hold indefinately provided the long term growth prospects are favorable, unfortunately, this does not occur with many companies for a multitude of reasons i.e. fail to deliver, too much debt ( AAQ ), catastrophic event ( WKL ) etc. so this necessitates a sell.
> I only hope CSS becomes a world leading aquaculture company , that is the context in which I will continue to hold.




Hi oracle, I confess that i knew exacly what you meant.
but..
It also seemed like you ...
1: Purchased a hook and line
2: Placed your favourite food on the hook
3: Offered me the line
4: Proceded to eat the food
My response followed


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## Basilica (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The announcement is out, and tranding halt over. Shares  down about 10%.
It is unclear if they have proceded further than the lavae stage they achieved last year. I am glad they provided a date when they will confirm if viable fingerlings have been produced, and hopefully if a repeatable method has been formulated.



"
As a consequence of a 38% increase in the company’s share price on Monday 16 March 2009 Clean Seas Tuna Limited initiated a trading halt in its shares to ensure all shareholders are equally informed on the progress of the Tuna propagation program.
The company reports that its trials are consistently achieving high levels of quality fertilised eggs and larvae for propagation, and that forward planning for commercialisation of Southern Bluefin Tuna has now commenced.
Shareholders are again cautioned regarding the risks in this complex research and development phase. We are, however, optimistic that our team can replicate the production of large quantities of larvae for future commercialisation.
Trials are ongoing and a further update will be provided to the market on approximately 30 April 2009, when we hope to confirm the production of viable Southern Bluefin Tuna fingerlings.
"


----------



## truevalue (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Strange announcement by CSS this afternoon. Why put the stock into trading halt for a day and a half and then say nothing new?

Feels like they wanted to say something more but decided not to. Maybe they were waiting for something good to happen but it didn't occur.


----------



## Basilica (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Strange announcement by CSS this afternoon. Why put the stock into trading halt for a day and a half and then say nothing new?
> 
> Feels like they wanted to say something more but decided not to. Maybe they were waiting for something good to happen but it didn't occur.




It is strange and it is at least possible that the run was started from people aware of the progress.

My guess at where they are up to, is several batches of lavae are been trialed on different types zooplaynkton. the lavae that die are removed and counted.
I have worked in the process for Murray Cod, Trout Cod and Silver and Golden Perch. This was a risky time for the lavae and the nutritional requirments are quite well known for the fish i worked with. If even one batch of SBT produced a 5% survival rate I expect they will be thrilled. What i would love to hear in their 30/4/09 anouncement is they have even 100 healthy fingerlings a month old and know how to repeat it across all batches next time.


----------



## tge oracle (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Strange announcement by CSS this afternoon. Why put the stock into trading halt for a day and a half and then say nothing new?
> 
> Feels like they wanted to say something more but decided not to. Maybe they were waiting for something good to happen but it didn't occur.





Truevalue / Basilica,

I wouldn't be too concerned about the lack specifcs in today's announcement. I have attached a link to the growth stages of tuna larvae and fingerlings. You will note that even after 5 weeks the fingerlings are only 45mm long. I can understand CSS's caution at this stage of the process. The larvae and fingerlings are very delicate but by the end of April they should be mature and robust enough for CSS to provide more specific details.
I am very pleased that I decided to re-invest in CSS. I am very confident about the future CSS and it's successful propogation of SBT on a commercial scale. 


http://www.iattc.org/AchotinesLab/Yellowfin-spawning.htm


----------



## Basilica (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Truevalue / Basilica,
> 
> The larvae and fingerlings are very delicate but by the end of April they should be mature and robust enough for CSS to provide more specific details.




I totally agree oracle by 45mm the fish willbe very robust and most can be expected to live to a ripe/tasty old age. 
Thanks for the link. 
Do they still only have one female large enough to breed or have they obtained more? It is a good time to try to obtain more than one spawning per year.


----------



## Basilica (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It is also worth stating the obvious.
They sure are ugly little babies. 
Only a Mother and a fish farmer could love them.


----------



## tge oracle (18 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I totally agree oracle by 45mm the fish willbe very robust and most can be expected to live to a ripe/tasty old age.
> Thanks for the link.
> Do they still only have one female large enough to breed or have they obtained more? It is a good time to try to obtain more than one spawning per year.




Basilica,

As I understand it they have a number of female fish. The problem ,last year, was that most of the females were not ready to breed. Reading between the lines of today's announcement I would guess that more than one female is spawning. Bare in mnd that a mature female can produce many hundreds of thousands of eggs. 
As I speculated in an earlier post, I think they are achieving multiple spawning events over the past few weeks and may continue to do so.

In answer to your second. I would need more information before recommending more than one spawning a year as it is essential that they succeed with this current project and successfully close the life cycle on a commercial scale. But yes, ultimately this may well be a goal they will aim for in the longer term. It would address the time lag between batches and satisfy customer demand throughout the yaer. This gap could be covered by the wild catch SBT in the meantime.

On another note, I am much happier with their prompt updating of the market this year when there is a new development. Last year we were all left in the dark for a number of months. I trust they will continue with this up to date ,open and transparent reporting. Some investors may feel wary after last years disclosures, however, ironically, I suspect this is the real thing this time.
Time will soon tell if I am right.

Note: These are my personal opinions and should not be considered as a recommendation to invest in CSS. DYOR.
I am a holder of CSS shares.


----------



## steamairship (19 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> The announcement is out, and tranding halt over. Shares  down about 10%.
> It is unclear if they have proceded further than the lavae stage they achieved last year. I am glad they provided a date when they will confirm if viable fingerlings have been produced, and hopefully if a repeatable method has been formulated.
> 
> 
> ...




Here is a link to the Port Lincoln local newspaper with an article about the spawning and how the fish are still laying fertilised eggs. The issue seems to be that they dont have enogh feed for the larvae


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## nizora (19 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Tuna babies: First bred tuna larvae swimming at Arno Bay
CHRISTOPHER COOTE
19/03/2009 12:30:00 AM
AT 1pm yesterday Hagen Stehr was in tears, not tears of sorrow, but tears of relief and joy as he explained that swimming in his company's hatchery at Arno Bay were the first commercially bred swimming, eating southern bluefin tuna in the world.

Mr Stehr had just received a phone call from the hatchery that all but guarantees Clean Seas Tuna will have southern bluefin tuna ready for commercial production by the end of this year.

He said the larvae, which were about the size of a grain of sand, had again been produced, and the company knew how to replicate the process.

"You can see the heart pumping and the veins going through them, it's just amazing," he said.

If all of the larvae and fertilised eggs Clean Seas has in its hatchery now were to grow into saleable fish the company would have in its tanks 20 times the number of fish the whole of the Australian southern bluefin tuna industry produces in a year, potentially changing the face of the industry forever.

The company's broodstock started producing fertilised eggs last Tuesday and haven't stopped since according to Mr Stehr.

"Last week I was all but resigned to the fact that we would have to wait another seven months to get the larvae but then it started to happen and the fish have continued to produce eggs," he said.

Clean Seas has managed to get southern bluefin larvae to survive for a number of days just three years after being established, but the company is unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time because it was not geared up and, at this stage, does not have adequate feed.

"Because they eat so much and we weren't really ready for so many of them, we are madly working on getting enough feed."

Mr Stehr said the larvae were ferocious eaters, and if they were kept alive would grow to 10 kilograms within a year.

If Clean Seas' broodstock had produced larvae late last year, it is feasible they would be in sea cages off Arno Bay now, but as the water temperature has dropped it is likely the company will keep any surviving fish onshore through the winter.

"In theory we will have fish in the water by the end of this year."

To feed the larvae the company plans to use another of its success stories.

Mr Stehr explained that Clean Seas will use eggs from its yellowtail kingfish breeding program to feed the larvae before they start them on other types of feed as they grow.

He said while he did not want to trivialise the steps the company needed to take to achieve a commercial breeding regime, all of the big hurdles had been jumped.

"First people said we couldn't get the males to spermiate, then they said we couldn't get the females to spermiate, then they said we wouldn't get fertlilised eggs, but we have done more than that and have larvae that are growing.

"The commercialisation process is inevitable now, it can't be stopped," he said.

"Even if we lose all of these larvae, we know how to get the tuna to reproduce ... we have the triggers."

The biggest hurdles the company face now are the impending infrastructure costs associated with the growout of the tuna.

Mr Stehr said potentially his company would have to increase its operations at Arno Bay by about 10 times, which would mean the town and the workforce would also have to grow with it.

"The realities of life say this could take a little time and a lot of money so we will have to come to terms with that," he said.

Clean Seas shares were on a trading halt yesterday afternoon, which was expected to be lifted this morning, after they jumped 38 per cent on Monday.

The author has shares in Clean Seas.


----------



## tge oracle (19 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Tks for the article Nizora. 

Some of you may have already done the sums but just in case you haven't . Hagen's prediction of 20 times the current Australian quota , with no mortality, equates too:

105,300 Tonnes of SBT which would be valued at $ 2.317 Billion dollars worth of SBT ( calculated at $22/kg )

I think the maths are right , you might need to check.

Not bad for a company with a market cap of arond $ 80M.


----------



## truevalue (19 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Dont forget Oracle that it will cost $10/kg to produce those fish which would equate to $1.05 billion. Ok so $1.3 billion profit is still quite good.

I will just be happy to see 10,000 tonnes to begin with which will net me a tidy $120m gross profit, and only cost $100m capex. Good payback!

If you were wondering if this thing could be big wonder no longer.


----------



## tge oracle (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Dont forget Oracle that it will cost $10/kg to produce those fish which would equate to $1.05 billion. Ok so $1.3 billion profit is still quite good.
> 
> I will just be happy to see 10,000 tonnes to begin with which will net me a tidy $120m gross profit, and only cost $100m capex. Good payback!
> 
> If you were wondering if this thing could be big wonder no longer.




Yes, good point Truevalue. My calculation was revenue only, production costs would need to be deducted.

I think all of us long term investors have a very good understanding of CSS and it's potential. 
Investors were skeptical about TGR when it first floated, but it delivered in the end and has become a world leading Salmon producer.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basilica,
> 
> On another note, I am much happier with their prompt updating of the market this year when there is a new development. Last year we were all left in the dark for a number of months. I trust they will continue with this up to date ,open and transparent reporting.




Better than last year but still a 38% move in share price too late.
This is possibly outside the directors control.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steamairship said:


> Here is a link to the Port Lincoln local newspaper with an article about the spawning and how the fish are still laying fertilised eggs. The issue seems to be that they dont have enogh feed for the larvae




Hi SteamAirShip,
I coud not see the link you referenced I assume it is as nizora posted below but the Author is missing.

Totally off topic ...
I used to make steam airships when i was a kid.
I got the light plastic bags from the drycleaning and sealed up the hole the coathanger made and crimped tiny pieces of alfoil to the open lower rim for ballast. Tried candles, steam and hair dryer to create lighter than air craft. would float up to about 5 M before colling.


----------



## tge oracle (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Better than last year but still a 38% move in share price too late.
> This is possibly outside the directors control.




I think they reported as soon as practicably possible with this announcement. It would be impossible to stop news from leaking out when there are so many staff working on this project e.g. scientists, hatchery staff, technicians etc. who have just witnessed a major spawning event. All it takes is a phone call.
The complaint I had last year was that it took nearly 3 months for CSS to accurately update the market. I the meantime, certain investors who had market sensitive information were frantically unloading their holdings. It was a disgraceful episode that diminished confidence in CSS and it's management.
I regard market confidence as ,potentially , the most damaging force affecting a listed company. It can rapidly turn catastrophic ( MFS, BNB, ALLCO, ABC etc ) for a company.
On a positive note, I do believe CSS understand the huge mistake they made last year and will keep us all informed in a timely fashion.
Investor confidence will soon return to CSS , particularly, if they achieve success of a scale as recently suggested.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the text nizora, This is clearly an exciting time for CSS.
I have a few concerns that the text outside quotes is an improvement on reality.



> Mr Stehr had just received a phone call from the hatchery that all but guarantees Clean Seas Tuna will have southern bluefin tuna ready for commercial production by the end of this year.




This is a huge call and totally contridicted by a later statement by the author.

"all but guarantees"  vs  "unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time"  not a direct quote from Mr Stehr just the author and shareholder speaking.



> Clean Seas has managed to get southern bluefin larvae to survive for a number of days just three years after being established, but the company is unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time because it was not geared up and, at this stage, does not have adequate feed.






> If all of the larvae and fertilised eggs Clean Seas has in its hatchery now were to grow into saleable fish the company would have in its tanks 20 times the number of fish the whole of the Australian southern bluefin tuna industry produces in a year




No one involved in aquaculture could ever debate that this is even remotly possible and not a direct quote from Mr Stehr.



> The company's broodstock started producing fertilised eggs last Tuesday and haven't stopped since according to Mr Stehr.




It is strange Mr Stehr waited more than a week to cry for joy.



> Mr Stehr said the larvae were ferocious eaters, and if they were kept alive would grow to 10 kilograms within a year.




I think it is possible the author misunderstood Mr Stehr. It would be more belivable if the statement was ...
If the growth rate continued for the year at the same growth rate as the lavae ... 
The growth rate of lavae in % is massive sometimes doubling every few weeks. Obviously this is not the case as the fish age. (Please correct me anyone if you believe different)



> The biggest hurdles the company face now are the impending infrastructure costs associated with the growout of the tuna.




This is just one hurdle and possibly the reason for the artical is to prime investors for a capital raising. Time will tell if it is the biggest hurdle.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I think they reported as soon as practicably possible with this announcement. It would be impossible to stop news from leaking out when there are so many staff working on this project e.g. scientists, hatchery staff, technicians etc. who have just witnessed a major spawning event. All it takes is a phone call.
> The complaint I had last year was that it took nearly 3 months for CSS to accurately update the market. I the meantime, certain investors who had market sensitive information were frantically unloading their holdings. It was a disgraceful episode that diminished confidence in CSS and it's management.
> I regard market confidence as ,potentially , the most damaging force affecting a listed company. It can rapidly turn catastrophic ( MFS, BNB, ALLCO, ABC etc ) for a company.
> On a positive note, I do believe CSS understand the huge mistake they made last year and will keep us all informed in a timely fashion.
> Investor confidence will soon return to CSS , particularly, if they achieve success of a scale as recently suggested.




I think we agree with each other, you just defined it better. There is no real way to stop staff for noticing.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Oracle and truevalue, You had me in fits of laughter with your income predictions based on so little info. 100 million kg at $22 / kg based only on a couple of litres  of lavae and eggs with a years wait.
Do not race out and buy the island and the jet just yet.



> but the company is unsure how long it will be able to keep them alive this time because it was not geared up and, at this stage, does not have adequate feed.




This is a learning curve and things seem to be going very well.
They have repeated their achievements from last year creating viable fertilised eggs and lavae and can repeat it again when needed.
That is great and i am very impressed.

They now have the challenge of the nutritional needs of the lavae as i predicted was a hurdle in a earlier post. This is where they failed last year and where they are now. 

I repeat my summary from a previous post that if they have even a hundred fish in the bay this year they will be considered to be a successfull IMO.


----------



## truevalue (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Oracle and truevalue, You had me in fits of laughter with your income predictions based on so little info. 100 million kg at $22 / kg based only on a couple of litres  of lavae and eggs with a years wait.
> Do not race out and buy the island and the jet just yet.




Thanks Basilica always happy to keep you amused.

I was just jumping in on the back of Oracles joke.

I think CSS has stated that, if they can replicate the success they had in YTK they should be able to produce 10,000 tonnes within 5 years of closing the SBT lifecycle.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Thanks Basilica always happy to keep you amused.
> 
> I was just jumping in on the back of Oracles joke.
> 
> I think CSS has stated that, if they can replicate the success they had in YTK they should be able to produce 10,000 tonnes within 5 years of closing the SBT lifecycle.




I agree truevalue, 10 million kg 5 years afting closing the lifecycle is achievable (2 million kg/year)
Supply and demand will reduce the $22 / kg significantly of course, by then.
Technically closing the lifecycle is still a long way away.
Mearly solving the pre-fingerling stage still leaves the fingerling to Wild catch size, part of the lifecycle to be mastered. 
(but a big hurdle will be passed)

I would loveto know what your and oracle's experience in aquaculture is?
Seems to be some experience in the industry.


----------



## tge oracle (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I agree truevalue, 10 million kg 5 years afting closing the lifecycle is achievable (2 million kg/year)
> Supply and demand will reduce the $22 / kg significantly of course, by then.
> Technically closing the lifecycle is still a long way away.
> Mearly solving the pre-fingerling stage still leaves the fingerling to Wild catch size, part of the lifecycle to be mastered.
> ...




Basilca, I don't want to say too much but I would describe my knowledge of Tuna fishing as substantial. I realised the importance of Tuna as a valuable sashimi product way back in the late 1970's , early 1980's , when a couple of East coast fshermen ( the Rowley brothers ) pioneered long line fishing for tuna and then air freighted it to Japan within 24 hrs to sell at the Tsukji       ( Tokyo ) fish market.
This , of course , has now become commonplace. The Port Lincoln fishermen, including the Stehrs, hadn't even realsied the importnace of this market back then they were still selling Tuna at a fraction of the price to cannery''s but things soon changed when word of the Rowley;s success spread throughout the industry and we now have one of the largest tuna fisheries in the world for sashimi grade tuna.

I view the Stehrs as pioneers in a new phase of the Tuna industry with CSS and again, some 30 years later , I realize the potential as I did back then.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basilca, I don't want to say too much but I would describe my knowledge of Tuna fishing as substantial.




Cool oracle,
My opinion of your opinion has now been confirmed.
I guesed you knew more than a generic invester.
Sushi Tuna is an exellant market to supply and delicous to consume.
I think you will also agree that SBT is not the only Sushi Tuna supplier and northern competitors have an advantage of about 3 years 
(but have crap water quality).
The profit margin will need to receed but even at, cost + 30 to 40 % is OK by me.
Do you have any comments on posts 90 and 92?


----------



## truevalue (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Basilica,

I can't claim to have any Aquaculture background at all. I am an investor only. 

I have been through the CSS breeding facility at Arno Bay twice and seen their hatchery. I did have the opportunity to meet their hatchery and breeding stock staff, got an education from them in aquaculture and had an opportunity to ask questions for a number of hours.

We also saw the sea cages of YTK at Arno Bay and Port Lincoln and, most impressive of all, the SBT backup broodstock.

I developed an appreciation of the importance of this company and the potential scale of the business while I was there, but I have probably underestimated (due to ignorance) the scientific challenges that have stood in the company's path so far.


----------



## Basilica (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Basilica,
> 
> I can't claim to have any Aquaculture background at all. I am an investor only.
> 
> ...




First hand experience truevalue, I would have liked a tour of the facility myself. Do you have any comments on posts 90 and 92?


----------



## tge oracle (20 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Cool oracle,
> My opinion of your opinion has now been confirmed.
> I guesed you knew more than a generic invester.
> Sushi Tuna is an exellant market to supply and delicous to consume.
> ...




Basilica, 

I wouldn't get too focused on every minor detail of commentary on CSS. Try to edit out all of the froth and bubble and concentrate on the bigger picture.
Hagen is, naturally , very excited and proud of CSS's achievements so far. He is a true visionary who has not only talked the talk but walked the talk and invested a significant amount in CSS. It is people such as Hagen who define history by creating new industries that others hadn't considered , or, were to scared to take the risk. CSS is risky but, potentially, an industry changing development. Most shareholders in CSS share Hagens vision, I certainly do. As long as the ASX reporting is up tp date, open and transparent I am satiisfied. 
As for the capital raising, we all know this will be required for the next phase of the project.  I am hoping that existing shareholders will be given a pro-rata entitlement as was the case last time based on a percentage of their present holding.

Finally, it is good to see we have a cross section of experience amongst posters on this thread. We can all learn from each other.


----------



## enigmatic (21 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have a quick question for Tge oracle..

do you have any affiliations with the CSS?
your background seems quite extensive about the industry and the company and i have had this question ever since your post on the
14th march 09



> I don't know if anybody has had a chance to view the new CSS website but I am very impressed. It has been very professionally constructed with detailed and extensive information about *our company *and it's products.
> This is yet another example of my growing confidence in CSS and it's future. Websites provide a key window into the way a company operates. CSS, to their credit, have always manitained an up to date website that is regularly maintained. You would be surprised how many companies have very poor websites that are not up to date. It is one factor I watch for in the overall quality managemnet of a company. If they can't manage updating their website then what does this say aboiut their management of the company.
> CSS are an example of a very high quality company , hence their ISO 14001 and ISO 9001 accreditation.




I was just wondering if my query is unjustified.


----------



## tge oracle (21 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



enigmatic said:


> I have a quick question for Tge oracle..
> 
> do you have any affiliations with the CSS?
> your background seems quite extensive about the industry and the company and i have had this question ever since your post on the
> ...




Hello Enigmatic, No, I don't have any affilliation with CSS what so ever. I am merely an investor who does have substantial and in depth knowledge of aqauculture industry and commercial fisheries in general. This has been gained through my particular interest in aquaculture and fisheries over many years and rigorous research into the aqauculture companies I have invested in. It would be improper and un-ethical for me, or any other poster, to use share forums, without full disclosure, if they had an affiliation with a company.
My reference to " Our Company " was made to any person invested in CSS. As a shareholder you are an owner of the company and that is the context in which I used that phrase. If you own CSS shares then it is also your company. 

I regard this forum as an information exchange portal for fellow aquaculture investors and certainly don't recommend anybody purchase CSS or any other share for that matter.
I trust this explains my position.

Disclosure : I hold shares in CSS and TGR in the aquaculture sector.


----------



## enigmatic (21 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yeah cheers for that.

Have been reading up on CSS for a while now, been growing more and more interested as food is one thing that has ever increasing demand especially fish.

Still on my watchlist but I can't commit any capital in the current market to this one, keeping a keen eye on it though.

hopefully you didnt take any offense to my question was just interested.


----------



## tge oracle (21 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



enigmatic said:


> Yeah cheers for that.
> 
> Have been reading up on CSS for a while now, been growing more and more interested as food is one thing that has ever increasing demand especially fish.
> 
> ...




No not at all enigmatic. I hope you find the information and resarch of interst as you decide whether, or not , to invest.
CSS is still a risky investment. It has been substantially de-risked over the past 3 years through:

1. Successful transfer of broodstock to shore tanks.
2. Rapid growth of YTK sales , production and marketing.
3. Successful propogation of YTK and Mulloway on a commercial scale, regularly.
4. Confirmation that SBT broodstock can be held in captivity in shore tanks for propogation without mortaility events though desease etc, indefinately. This has been achieved for some 2.5 years now.
5. Succesful spermiation of male and female broodstock.
6. Significant fertilised egg production which has lead to viable larvae.

The final and most important de-rsiking is the succesfiul closing of the life cycle of SBT through achieving a commercial scale quantity of SBT fingerflings and proof that this can be replicated.

Once this has been achieved the profile of CSS will dramatically change from a high risk entity to one of a lower risk commercial aquaculture company e.g. Tassal Group.
If this is achieved I would anticipate CSS moving rapidly beyond the All Ords index and into the ASX 300 and beyond. This will attract the interest of major fund managers and more particularly index fund managers who only have a mandate to invest in indexed shares. There may well be a number of fund managers eagerly awaiting CSS's progression, should it succeed, in order for them to invest.

I have further comments to make on the potential for this company, not previously discussed or considered, if they do succeed with significant quantity of fingerlings of a scale suggested by Hagen, but I will leave those comments until such time as this is achieved, if at all.


----------



## truevalue (23 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They now have the challenge of the nutritional needs of the lavae as i predicted was a hurdle in a earlier post. This is where they failed last year and where they are now. 

I repeat my summary from a previous post that if they have even a hundred fish in the bay this year they will be considered to be a successfull IMO.[/QUOTE]

Basilica,

My info tells me last year they had around 30k fertilised eggs. This year they were getting 10s of thousands of eggs from Tuesday to Thursday last week when suddenly on Friday they got 100s of thousands of eggs and this continued all through the weekend. This is why Hagen waited until Friday to cry. They had a massive quantity of eggs of much higher quality than previously obtained and they had a much higher chance of finding the magic formula to ensure survival. The quantity of eggs suprised them which is why they were caught short of feed.

I agree with you that 100 fish in the water is a success because it proves they have closed the life cycle. I do however think that if they do close the life cycle they are more likely to have 20,000 fish that make it through assuming a 99% mortality rate.


----------



## kenny (24 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A question from a new reader to the CSS thread, guys.

Does CSS have the capital or infrastructure to cope with successful breeding at this stage? Or perhaps a cap raising may be necessary?

The information released so far certainly sounds promising and CSS's product ticks a lot of the boxes for what the world's food situation needs and wants.

Truevalue, I have little idea towards coming to a reasonable valuation. Is a 99% mortality rate consistent with industry standards?

Is the farmed product going to achieve similar prices at market to other farmed products in relation to their 'wild' counterparts?

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (24 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

HI Kenny,

Yes CSS will need a capital raising post the successful closure of the SBT lifecycle. They say $50m in equity and $50m in debt. May be more equity in this environment.

In a normal year 99% mortality would be high. They certainly do much better in Kingfish. This SBT process is new and nobody knows what they can do in this regard. Time will tell.

CSS will produce a product that will attract a similar price as the "wild" fish due to most SBT being produced today being largely farmed. Tuna ranching is the most common process used by tuna fishermen these days which involves surrounding a school of juveniles with a large sea net and towing them slowly back to Port Lincoln where they are fattened up in sea cages for about a year before they are harvested.

Valuation is very difficult and subjective given all the uncertainties around SBT and capital raisings. I personally think the Kingfish is worth 30-40c/share and the Tuna is an option. Tuna is a much better prospect than Kingfish because SBT sell for around $25/kg while Kingfish sells for around $9. the gross margin on SBT is $15 compared to $2-3 for kingfish. If CSS can produce 10,000 tonnes of SBT this could equate to $250m in revenue and $150m in gross profit. That would easily make CSS a 10 bagger from here. Plenty of water under the bridge before that happens though.


----------



## FI$H (25 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Suppose they announce a significant amount of fingerlings at the end of april. where do you see the stock (price and volume)?


----------



## truevalue (25 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Suppose they announce a significant amount of fingerlings at the end of april. where do you see the stock (price and volume)?




Well that brings the value of that option up alot. I am hopeful that the price will go well north of $1, but it is hard to say with a capital raising in the wings. I would prefer to see a capital raising at $1.50 than $0.60 but that depends upon who comes up with the money. 

I know there are strategic investors from Europe and Japan waiting for such an event as live fingerlings and the Stehr family have some strings they can pull to tip in more capital. So between the two groups the capital requirement may be pretty much covered. The small volumes in the stock generally are indicative of a loyal and educated shareholder base who will probably want to contribute to the business as well. Based on previous capital raisings exsiting holders will get first right to any share offering.


----------



## FI$H (25 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks, I'm confident that they'll make it happen and that we'll see temporarily prices far higher than the once you've suggested. I just like to get a sentiment on what to expect for the weeks and months once the price settles.


----------



## kenny (25 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks Truevalue,

My suspicions was that CSS would be prudent to push the flow of announcements and milestones along prior to any proposed cap raising. Certainly any raising closer to the $1.50 - $2 level would be far more appealing and reinforce the value of the proposition.

Would it be safe to assume that contracts for the sale of any increased volumes of product should not be hard to come by? SBT demand overseas outstrips supply?

Regards,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (25 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Thanks Truevalue,
> 
> My suspicions was that CSS would be prudent to push the flow of announcements and milestones along prior to any proposed cap raising. Certainly any raising closer to the $1.50 - $2 level would be far more appealing and reinforce the value of the proposition.
> 
> ...





One of the real bull points there Kenny is the demise of the Northern Bluefin Tuna which has suffered a rapid decline in harvest for the past 10 years. The 10,000 tonnes that CSS wants to produce is frankly a drop in the ocean relative to the NBT tonnage that has been lost out of the Mediterranean. 

On the other hand we are starting to see some recovery (albeit small) in wild SBT stocks thanks to the fishing quotas. As long as those quotas remain in place however the only new supply coming out of this region will be from CSS.


----------



## FI$H (26 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

To me the relationship between Kinki, CSS and Allotuna isn't transparent enough.
Does CSS need to worry about Kinki university or Allotuna as competitors in the long run? Do I need to feel uncomfortable about prof. chris bridges being involved with Allotuna and CSS at the same time or is Allotuna an entirely academic institution? What has CSS to offer right now that Kinki or Allotuna can't? Will the tuna seasons vary between companies in the northern and southern hemisphere? Did Allotuna manage to grow out their fertilized eggs to fingerlings? Who owns the intellectual property jointly developed by CSS and Allotuna or CSS and Kinki?

I would appreciate any comments that shed some light on this.


----------



## tge oracle (26 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> To me the relationship between Kinki, CSS and Allotuna isn't transparent enough.
> Does CSS need to worry about Kinki university or Allotuna as competitors in the long run? Do I need to feel uncomfortable about prof. chris bridges being involved with Allotuna and CSS at the same time or is Allotuna an entirely academic institution? What has CSS to offer right now that Kinki or Allotuna can't? Will the tuna seasons vary between companies in the northern and southern hemisphere? Did Allotuna manage to grow out their fertilized eggs to fingerlings? Who owns the intellectual property jointly developed by CSS and Allotuna or CSS and Kinki?
> 
> I would appreciate any comments that shed some light on this.




Hi Fish,

You raise some very interesting questions that are probably shared by a number of the more learned CSS investors. These are really questions that can only be answered by CSS Management. My response is only guess work , but I'll give it a try.

1. Competition - Yes, Kinki and Allotuna will provide a level of competition but remenber CSS will be breeding SBT, Allotuna and Kinki will breed NBT. Although very similar in appearance, many Japanese consumers do regard the SBT as the superior grade of fish. I, personally, am not concerned about the competition aspect to this project.

2. Chris Bridges - No, I don't see a need for concern, there appears to be a lot of information sharing amongst all three which should benefit them all.
As far as I am aware Allotuna is a commercial entity, Kinki is an academic institution which has a commercial mandate for NBT propogation.

3. What can CSS offer - SBT propogation. The only entity in the world to offer this product.

4. Seasons - Yes, the seasons are completely opposite but this won't be an issue because I believe CSS will eventually produce SBT throughout the year.

5. Allotuna - No, my research has failed to provide any evidence that Allotuna succeeded beyond larvae production. They appeared to hit the same road block as CSS last year i.e. 100% mortality rate to larvae.

6. Intellectual property - Probably all three. But I think Kinki and CSS have a much closer relationship. 



To give you all an indication of rhe level of success CSS may achieve, please refer to the following link which details the success rate achieved by Kinki.

http://www.21coe-kinkiuniv.jp/pdf/3rd_PBT_English.pdf


----------



## truevalue (27 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> To give you all an indication of rhe level of success CSS may achieve, please refer to the following link which details the success rate achieved by Kinki.
> 
> http://www.21coe-kinkiuniv.jp/pdf/3rd_PBT_English.pdf




I hadn't seen this link before Oracle. It is quite good. Makes my prediction of 20,000 fish in the water look achievable. Kinki achieved a 98% mortality.

20,000 fish would grow to around 800 tonnes in the water by 4/2011, baring any catastrophies.


----------



## tge oracle (28 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Here's a news article from last Wednesday ( 25th March ) . It provides some insight as to how things are progressing. It sounds like the fish are continuing to spawn and have done so for the past few weeks. On the basis that Hagen has advised that they have eating and swimming SBT I would estimate that some of the SBT larvae , from earlier spawings, have now progressed to fingerlings of about 20-25mm. If this is the case, they will have progressed beyond the sensitive dietry requirements for larvae and moved to a more stable diet which will make them a lot easier to feed and care 


for.http://eyrepeninsula.yourguide.com....eral/putting-arno-bay-on-the-map/1469659.aspx


----------



## tge oracle (28 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Here's another article of interest. Looks like news of CSS's potential SBT breeding success is spreading rapidly throughout the world with new players emerging, even from Scotland of all places.

It's interesting to note CSS has an agreement with IATTC as well.



http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?ContentId=13095


----------



## kenny (30 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the interesting article links, tge oracle.

It would be nice to see if any royalties stem from using the breeding protocols developed or are they "open source".

Northern hemisphere development of tuna stocks will help improve supply but will it affect demand for SBT?

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## tge oracle (30 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Thanks for the interesting article links, tge oracle.
> 
> It would be nice to see if any royalties stem from using the breeding protocols developed or are they "open source".
> 
> ...




I'm not sure how these protocols were agreed too. This could be just information sharing or a commercial agreement, but ASX disclosures make no reference to fee's etc. so I guess it is information sharing on the grounds of scientific advancement of the protection of Tuna species throughout the world. An admirable cause really. Aquaculture is the future for all forms of commercial fisheries in my view and that is, partly, why I regard it as an industry of the future.  It has been a bit " hit and miss " up to now so the investment community is still skeptical. That will change as the industry becomes more mature and reliable in it's ability to deliver.

On the issue of competition, as I have previously stated in an earlier post connoisseurs throughout the world regard SBT as the highest of quality breed Tuna. Although similar to the NBT it is a totally different fish with it's own unique texture and flavour. This unique species will only be bred by CSS so they will be the only supplier of SBT. 
Also CSS , I hope, will have first mover advantage on the commercial production of SBT on a significant scale. It will not be easy for any new comer to replicate CSS's success, indeed , it has not been easy for CSS.


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (31 March 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Just a quick note to say thanks to truvalue / oracle / fi$h & basilica for a great discussion and informed comments.  I too am a long standing CSS investor (from float) and your insights & thoughts on the stock are v.informative.  I think we're all singing from the same hymnbook, there is a great future in investing in food, and should the next couple of months go well, we could well be reaping the benefits when the market returns to some sense of stability.   Back above $2 would be nice!


----------



## Basilica (1 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



BlueHshoeLvs CSS said:


> Just a quick note to say thanks to truvalue / oracle / fi$h & basilica for a great discussion and informed comments.  I too am a long standing CSS investor (from float) and your insights & thoughts on the stock are v.informative.  I think we're all singing from the same hymnbook, there is a great future in investing in food, and should the next couple of months go well, we could well be reaping the benefits when the market returns to some sense of stability.   Back above $2 would be nice!




Hi BlueHorseShoe, Welcome to the forum. How did you choose a name like that?
What let you to be interested in Aquaculture?


----------



## truevalue (3 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Come on Basilica! Are you 15 years old or have you never watched Wall Street with Michael Douglas and Charlie Sheen? Talk about history repeating itself! How relevent is that movie now to some of the recent events in Corporate America and Australia?


----------



## Basilica (4 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Come on Basilica! Are you 15 years old or have you never watched Wall Street with Michael Douglas and Charlie Sheen? Talk about history repeating itself! How relevent is that movie now to some of the recent events in Corporate America and Australia?




Sorry about my slow and limited responses latley. I am in the process of harrassing a group of three insolvency professionals now  in charge of the company i previously worked for. I am owed 14K and they all failed to accuratly declare their independance. One even slept at a directors family's house on first visit.

15 yo ... i wish
47 yo ... i wish i were not!

Gorden Gecko = greed is good ???
I do not remember any horses in the movie.
And i am certain if there was, it was not wearing blue shoes. 

To pick up on the mortality rate of 98% you quoted from Oracles exellent link. 
Dont worry or bask about that too much. In time it will get to that and beyond. It is quite cheap to keep huge numbers of fish in small space and they dont each much. maybe 5% body weight per day. What i focused on is the Survival rate of 93% after fingerling size. Treat them as 2 processes and one step at a time. Egg to adult mortality % has little meaning. Huge infrastructure and feed costs to pass stage 2.

Is anyone interested in a general Aquaculture Threed on this forum?
I would lke to discuss the industry as a whole as well as the individual companies.


----------



## tge oracle (5 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Is anyone interested in a general Aquaculture Threed on this forum?
I would lke to discuss the industry as a whole as well as the individual companies.[/QUOTE]



This is becoming quite a busy and informative thread Basilica. Once CSS complete SBT lifecycle closure on a commercial scale it will become a lot busier. I think we already do cover aspects of aquaculture in our CSS and TGR comments. I would suggest we try to stick to information specifically on CSS for the time being as this is the most sigmifiant development in the aquaculture industry for many years. I have a lot more to say on the potential for CSS that goes way beyond sashimi production and a vision that has the potential to make CSS a true global seafood giant. I would prefer to wait for details on the specidifc results from lifecycle closure before commenting further. These comments will be very relevant to the aquaculture industry as an industry of the future, in fact , evetually I can see nearly all seafood production coming from the aquacultire in the future.


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (5 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi BlueHorseShoe, Welcome to the forum. How did you choose a name like that?
> What let you to be interested in Aquaculture?




Hey Basilica, 
Yep Blue Horse Shoe is from Wall St the movie.  B.H.S is code word for Gordon Gecko.  
More interested in CSS specifically than aquaculture as a whole....will be even more interested if they can economically commercialise the SBT. 

Keep up the good work guys. It's great reading....and something tells me we may be reading a lot more over the next couple of months.


----------



## steamairship (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



BlueHshoeLvs CSS said:


> Hey Basilica,
> Yep Blue Horse Shoe is from Wall St the movie.  B.H.S is code word for Gordon Gecko.
> More interested in CSS specifically than aquaculture as a whole....will be even more interested if they can economically commercialise the SBT.
> 
> Keep up the good work guys. It's great reading....and something tells me we may be reading a lot more over the next couple of months.




What do holders think of the latest Ann posted today? Especially the information provided about the Tuna spawning progress.

I hold CSS, CNM, CNX


----------



## tge oracle (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steamairship said:


> What do holders think of the latest Ann posted today? Especially the information provided about the Tuna spawning progress.
> 
> I hold CSS, CNM, CNX





There is, undoubtedly, disappointment that SBT production will not be achieved this year on a commercial scale, however, there still appears to be a possibility of significant fingerling production if breeding continues throughot April. They are hoping for " some " fingerlings by end of May.
This is an important milestone that must be achieved in my view.

Now for the good news. I regard the move to profitability of the YTK business as a significant positive. I had previously speculated that this would occur in Q1/09. The company is now cash flow positive so the Rabo bank debt can be reduced with these funds and it will cover any necessary business expenses over the coming months. Another positive is that there appears to be no immediate need to raise funds ( capital raising ) and if there were to be one it would be relatively small in scale. Any future raisings would be in line with SBT production scale, this will achieve strong support in my view.

The company is being very open and transparent in it's reporting which is another positive sign. I do get the feeling they are being very cautious and wouldn't rule out more positive news over the comings weeks / months.

I am a long term hoder and today's announcement doesn't alter my position.


----------



## FI$H (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Why is the investor presentation announcement not marked with an exclamation mark on ASX if the content is considered price-sensitive?


----------



## tge oracle (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Why is the investor presentation announcement not marked with an exclamation mark on ASX if the content is considered price-sensitive?




Yes, I had wondered about that myself Fi$h. Although the SBT propogation is still very uncertain the profit guidance from the YTK business is certainly material to the CSS's outlook. At least we have the information, not like last year!


----------



## kenny (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, I had wondered about that myself Fi$h. Although the SBT propogation is still very uncertain the profit guidance from the YTK business is certainly material to the CSS's outlook. At least we have the information, not like last year!




Price sensitive or not, I really appreciate the wealth of information that came out. It was interesting to hear about the use of the Kingfish project to push the SBT work.

Interesting too the lack of detail regarding the need for a cap raising and the dampening of expectations of a commercial haul from the current batch.

I could get used to transparency 

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I would have preferred they didn't release this presentation now but in a month or so's time when they will have more to say on the fingerling success (or otherwise). All this release does (in my view) is create more investor anxiety and uncertainty. It is still too early for management to know whether they will have a live tuna in a month's time and given this is the single biggest factor to affect the stock, why say anything now? 

I never (and I didn't think any other posters on this forum) saw this run as being commercial, although it would have been nice. With 50 million eggs, surely they have a good chance of hitting the right protocols?

I found the comments on Kingfish profitability disappointing once again. I think they are right to pull back production expectations on the Kingfish and keep their capacity for SBT. Clearly they have not met sales targets in YTK and production costs are still too high.

I am still a long term holder


----------



## tge oracle (6 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I would have preferred they didn't release this presentation now but in a month or so's time when they will have more to say on the fingerling success (or otherwise). All this release does (in my view) is create more investor anxiety and uncertainty. It is still too early for management to know whether they will have a live tuna in a month's time and given this is the single biggest factor to affect the stock, why say anything now?
> 
> I never (and I didn't think any other posters on this forum) saw this run as being commercial, although it would have been nice. With 50 million eggs, surely they have a good chance of hitting the right protocols?
> 
> ...




I suspect they were compelled, possibly by the ASX, to provide more information to shareholders on the status of progress, They were issued with a speediing ticket which didn't provide as much information as it could have.
I was wondering how they could wait until the end of April with so many developments occuring which will , potentially , materilally affect the company. Regular accurate and transparent disclosure is always the best policy in this situation.

re YTK . They do need to improve the margins over time. I do believe this will occur throughout the year through improved production protocols and marketing. Remember , YTK was losing money last year. At least it is cash flow positive and trending in that direction. This will take pressure off the all important capital requirements.

The SBT fingerling progression is the most important issue for CSS , by far. They must achieve success with fingerling porpogation this season. Failure to do so will leave a question mark over their ability to achieve success next season. In my opinion, they will succeed. We will know by May.


----------



## kenny (9 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm happy about CSS's adherence (now) to the concept of Continuous Disclosure and wondered like you did tge about how management would be able to withhold all information on developments before May.

Thanks for the reply Truevalue. Why did you find the YTK information disappointing? At least it's in the black now and assisting the SBT programme.

I still hold the view that the presentation was deliberately conservative in tone and helpful for newcomers to CSS like myself in highlighting the developmental risks still to be faced.

Have a great Easter.

Kenny


----------



## tge oracle (9 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> I'm happy about CSS's adherence (now) to the concept of Continuous Disclosure and wondered like you did tge about how management would be able to withhold all information on developments before May.
> 
> Thanks for the reply Truevalue. Why did you find the YTK information disappointing? At least it's in the black now and assisting the SBT programme.
> 
> ...





I am hopeful that CSS have adopted an under promise and over deliver approach on the progress of SBT propogation this season.
After carefully considering what they have said both officially in ASX announcements and through the media / CSS website I will eagerly await their progress report in late April / early May.
They have stated that they won't achieve a commercial quantity of SBT fingerflings this season. But what do they regard as a commercial quantity?
They have stated that they expect a pre-commercial quantity in Dec / Jan of 25000+ figerlings. It is entirely possible this may be achieved by May as this is not by definition a "commercial quantity".
25K of fingerlings, or any where near that, would be a major achievement and leave me in no doubt, what so ever, that they have cleared all the hurdles for future SBT production.

I also can't help thinking about their assertion , on the website, that they have closed the SBT life cycle. I can't be sure, but I suspect they do have SBT fry or even fingerlings already. It is just a question of how many?

All the above is only me thinking out loud and not based on any particular facts. Let's hope my suspicions come to fruition.

Happy Easter to all!


----------



## Green08 (9 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

tgeo - do you only have experience and knowledge of cold water aquaculture? Or are you verse with the other few aquaculture companies listed? I believe there is successful scope for those in this industry to have a future.  I wish the government would pledge assistance for R & D work, though we have a small but very informed group working in Australia


----------



## tge oracle (10 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> tgeo - do you only have experience and knowledge of cold water aquaculture? Or are you verse with the other few aquaculture companies listed? I believe there is successful scope for those in this industry to have a future.  I wish the government would pledge assistance for R & D work, though we have a small but very informed group working in Australia




Green08

I do have knowledge and experience with some tropical species such as prawns / basa etc but these are predominately bred in SE Asia where water quality is an issue.
We do have limited prawn farming in australia along with Barramundi but these are not listed companies. AAQ ( Barra ) was recently delisted.
WKL were to embark on Lobster and Bug propogation but they failed with their YTK cohort which was to help fund their development.
I understand Cell Aqua will look to invest in Barra in Malaysia but they are mainly producers of aquaculture equipment.

We have great potential in Australia for aquaculture production and I agree that there should be a lot more funding for aqauaculture via R&D, grants etc.
Being geographically remote and surrounded by pristine waters we should have a thriving aquaculture industry.
I think there is a growing realisation on the potential for this industry but it is a slow road.

If CSS succeed with SBT propogation it will really put this industry on everybody's radar.
The truth is, only learned investors understand the industry and it's potential.
As with the humble Merino, we may well be living off the aquaculture industry's back in the future.


----------



## Green08 (10 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I beg to differ.

I respect information you lodge here though you have admitted, you are a share holder in CSS and TGR for some time close to inception thus have a vested interest.

I have looked at Marine Produce Australia MPA - farming Barramundi in the north of Broome in the most pristine environment.  They have firm sales, infact their sales out strip production. Barramundi exist in more flexible environments than tuna or salmon. May not be your fish of choice for sushi but in a world where food is becoming a needed and more difficult to source commodity - especially quality protein. People who can are buying.

I am fully aware of AAQ and WLK. They were set up in haste and not the ideal conditions. AAQ in the wrong market and WLK using tanks used to house a different species of fish who knows what was left.


----------



## tge oracle (10 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> I beg to differ.
> 
> I respect information you lodge here though you have admitted, you are a share holder in CSS and TGR for some time close to inception thus have a vested interest.
> 
> ...




You won't get any arguement from me Green08, I also regard Barramundi as a premium porduct with great potential. I had invested in AAQ for that reason, however, I did start to have concerns when they had problems with quality and biomass issues a couple of years ago so decided to exit from my investment. 
I had omitted MPA from my previous list, not intentially, just forgot about them. I had kept a cursory glance on them , some time ago, but have been busy with other investments in my portfolio.
I will keep an eye on MPA, but won't comment further unless I have completed a lot more research , or, decided to invest.

I have disclosed my interest in TGR and CSS and ,of course, any investor who purchases an investment does so in the expectation that it will grow and has a vested interest in seeing that materilase. I do try to be objective with my commentary looking at the positive's and negative's. 

Good luck with MPA, if you are invested.


----------



## truevalue (14 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> I'm happy about CSS's adherence (now) to the concept of Continuous Disclosure and wondered like you did tge about how management would be able to withhold all information on developments before May.
> 
> Thanks for the reply Truevalue. Why did you find the YTK information disappointing? At least it's in the black now and assisting the SBT programme.
> 
> ...





Hi Kenny,

I was only disappointed because they had previously stated that the second half result would at least erase the first half losses, ie a break-even/full year profit. Now they are forecasting a small full year loss. This can only mean YTK is not on budget.

YTK should make a good profit next year provided prices don't deteriorate and provided they can get their cost base right.

This is all small beer in the scheme of the CSS story but I suppose I am keen to see them demonstate that they can make the YTK business successful and prove they have made the step from being fishermen to aquaculturalists.

I am still very confident in the long-term future of the company, having said all that, and just need to keep my focus on the big picture.


----------



## kenny (14 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Truevalue,

With the YTK being the main (only?) revenue generator of significance at this point, you are probably correct in your assumption. Rather than the YTK failing to live up to expectations, it may well be expense overruns in other activities like the SBT setup that may have skewed the result.

I'm still thinking there will be a cap raising in the near future.

REgards,

Kenny


----------



## FI$H (14 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> They have stated that they won't achieve a commercial quantity of SBT fingerflings this season. But what do they regard as a commercial quantity?
> They have stated that they expect a pre-commercial quantity in Dec / Jan of 25000+ figerlings. It is entirely possible this may be achieved by May as this is not by definition a "commercial quantity".




This was the most irritating and disappointing bit of the update to me. In earlier statements they had hoped for commencement of commercial scale production in 2010. This is clearly no longer the case or am I mistaken? Second, can they get the tuna to spawn soon enough to get fingerlings in December? 

Maybe it's for the better if commercialization of the SBT business is delayed by a year or two and coincides with strong YTK revenues. After the AAQ disaster I'd hate to see this one to go belly-up as well.


----------



## sashimi (19 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Good Day to Everyone
I am extremly interested in buying shares in CSS.
I have my own instinct on this tuna business and there is no real possiblity in my mind of this venture failing. It is only a question of time and money.


In fact i am intersted in completing the same task in New Guinea and or the Solomon Islands. but in relation to yellowfin tuna. My ship is currently on station in New Guinea waters while I increase my capital base for the next stage of development.

It seems this is a very knowledgeable forum and it definately has my attention and I would like to develop relationships with people who may or may not help


----------



## truevalue (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The game is on! SBT fingerlings have been announced. This is fantastic news and a huge breakthrough for the company. Well done Clean Seas!!!


----------



## FI$H (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

that's good news...



apparently they plan to accelerate commercialization now. we'lll have to wait and see what that exactly means.


----------



## tge oracle (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, excellent news. Congratulations to everybody involved. 
It is a significant achievement and now leaves no doubt, in my mind , that successful commercial propogation will be achieved next summer.
I am also awaiting more details on the actual quantity produced and whether there is more to come as the later spawning events will still be at the mature larvae stage.  
I suspect CSS are awaiting actual fingerling numbers in order to determine the scale of capital investment required for the next stage of the process. I would anticipate this being released sometime late May.


----------



## tge oracle (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> Good Day to Everyone
> I am extremly interested in buying shares in CSS.
> I have my own instinct on this tuna business and there is no real possiblity in my mind of this venture failing. It is only a question of time and money.
> 
> ...




Welcome to the forum Sashimi, it would appear you also have considerable knowledge of the Tuna industry.

As for your yellowfin project, it sounds interesting. I will keep an eye on your updates and any other relevant information you post. I have my hands full at the moment with the many listed entity opportunities the GFC has provided us with. I am not in a position to research unlisted entities that require venture capital for the time being.

I will say one thing, you are on the right track with aquaculture it is certainly an industry of the future and I wish you luck.


----------



## FI$H (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, excellent news. Congratulations to everybody involved.
> It is a significant achievement and now leaves no doubt, in my mind , that successful commercial propogation will be achieved next summer.
> I am also awaiting more details on the actual quantity produced and whether there is more to come as the later spawning events will still be at the mature larvae stage.
> I suspect CSS are awaiting actual fingerling numbers in order to determine the scale of capital investment required for the next stage of the process. I would anticipate this being released sometime late May.




I'm very optimistic about the achieved quantity. They can't drop a bomb like today's one just to tell people that they had only a dozen fingerlings in total. Also the release came a bit earlier than expected. They wouldn't have done this if all their hopes for decent fingerling numbers were based on the last batch of larvae. I wonder why the price retreated from its high at 80c today.  I expect significant upside for the days to come and people who sold today will kick themselves . How come that there wasn't any suspicious activity in the past days? Should that make me nervous ?


----------



## truevalue (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I'm very optimistic about the achieved quantity. They can't drop a bomb like today's one just to tell people that they had only a dozen fingerlings in total. Also the release came a bit earlier than expected. They wouldn't have done this if all their hopes for decent fingerling numbers were based on the last batch of larvae. I wonder why the price retreated from its high at 80c today.  I expect significant upside for the days to come and people who sold today will kick themselves . How come that there wasn't any suspicious activity in the past days? Should that make me nervous ?




Fish the stock fell on very small volume today. There was 390k shares traded and the stock was trading at 76c when suddenly someone decided to sell 50k shares late in the day and hit the bid down to 70c in one hit. The match volume was only 6k shares at 69.5. Both thoses trades were very strange as good volume was going through and I believe both sellers would have gotten 75c if they had just placed them on the offer.

This was a very significant milestone for CSS and as it gets more press(I am yet to see the Financial Review print anything on CSS) then I believe investors will understand just how important it is.


----------



## FI$H (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> This was a very significant milestone for CSS and as it gets more press(I am yet to see the Financial Review print anything on CSS) then I believe investors will understand just how important it is.




There is no doubt in my mind that we haven't seen the real big push yet. I think that we'll see a shortage of sellers tomorrow and the days after


----------



## tge oracle (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that we haven't seen the real big push yet. I think that we'll see a shortage of sellers tomorrow and the days after




Fish / Truevalue,

Don't worry about the day to day fluctuations in the share price, it really is immaterial in the long run. We have all been through the wild rides before, in fact, with much larger gyrations and you guy's  have stuck it out throughout........I think!.

Anyway, the present caution with CSS is entirely predictable. They dissapointed investors ,last year, with their lack of disclosure details. It will take some time for the bigger players to regain confidence, as it did with myself.

One of the many measures I use for investing is honesty, ethics and accuracy of information. CSS , not intentially in my view, were remiss in this area last year. They are new to the public arena but I do believe they have learned from their mistakes. Investor confidence is everything and I think Hagen knows this now.

Short term investors will inevitably sell on the news but the real gains come in the months and years that follow.

Disclosure - I am a long term holder and intend to fully participate in any future capital raising as the final hurdle for my risk profile of CSS has finally been overcome.


----------



## FI$H (20 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'll stay invested for a while, I guess. How long does it take to grow a fingerling to 25-40kg and how does the FCR compare to YTK?


----------



## FI$H (21 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm a little disappointed I have to say. I anticipated a price in excess of 1$.There's something fishy about the market reaction. I'm a long-term investor and don't care about day-to-day prices changes. But wow do you source 100 million from existing shareholders if market cap is only just over 100 million?


----------



## sashimi (21 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I'll stay invested for a while, I guess. How long does it take to grow a fingerling to 25-40kg and how does the FCR compare to YTK?



15kg per year would be a good starting point.  A lot will depend upon the daily feeding process because no matter which way you look at it, in the end it has to become cost effective.  The color of the flesh may well become an issue.

Even though these are exciting times in this adventure I do not think it is possible to restock the wild population from Port Lincoln.

I believe for an entirely successful breeding outcome for this kind venture should be nearby the natural spawing grounds. and that puts the Med. project at a significate advantage. 

There is no existing commercial market for fingerlings here in Australia but the restaurant trade around the Med. sea provides a significantly different market opportunity especially for fingerlings.


----------



## truevalue (21 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I'm a little disappointed I have to say. I anticipated a price in excess of 1$.There's something fishy about the market reaction. I'm a long-term investor and don't care about day-to-day prices changes. But wow do you source 100 million from existing shareholders if market cap is only just over 100 million?




Fish, they dont need $100m in equity just $50-$60m and they dont need that now but "by 2013". They are likely to raise a portion of that soon ($15-$20m). The rest of the funding ($40-50m) will come from bank debt.

There is an analyst running around saying they are raising $100m now but that is completely wrong and the guy should really speak to the company.


----------



## FI$H (21 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I researched a few older presentations where I found answers to some of my questions:

*"Company will invest up to 100 million progressively through to 2013"*

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=00945300

*"Market advised that a further 100 million in funding required over the next 2-3 years."
*
*"... a dry SBT pellet capable of producing a 2.5-3.5 FCR" *

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=00885142

*"... (SBT) spawn between September and March ..."
"... fingerling grow to 15kg over next 2 years ..."
"... grown out in sea cages for 6-8 months to 30-40kg.."*

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=00841106


----------



## FI$H (22 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This was in the news today:

*Mr Stehr said it was possible the larvae the company had in its tanks now could be the first fish grown out in sea cages. Either way he said the company would now press ahead with its plans for commercialisation of the fish, probably in November this year.*

http://portlincoln.yourguide.com.au...al/growout-success-at-clean-seas/1491993.aspx


----------



## Basilica (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I also think Hagen and the team are doing well.
I would love to know the number of fingerlings.
(Hagen, if you are reading this please PM me answer)
I still think even a hundred fingerling will be a success.
Does any one know what Pre-Commercial production means in this context?
I asume that is what was predicted to begin in November.
Is it just a fancy name for limited grow out trial?

Welcome to the Forum Sashimi


----------



## FI$H (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I also think Hagen and the team are doing well.
> I would love to know the number of fingerlings.
> (Hagen, if you are reading this please PM me answer)
> I still think even a hundred fingerling will be a success.
> ...




Did Hagen PM you already? 
To produce ~5000t you'd probably need ~250 000 fingerlings. I think they define 10% of that as pre-commercial.


----------



## Basilica (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> Good Day to Everyone
> I am extremly interested in buying shares in CSS.
> I have my own instinct on this tuna business and there is no real possiblity in my mind of this venture failing. It is only a question of time and money.
> 
> ...




What is your plan Sashimi, Grow out of wild catch in cages? Breeding?
I think it is a healthy attitude to assume any company can fail. Value is all about risk vs return. I think "No real possability" is a little too confident in these troubling times.


----------



## Basilica (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Did Hagen PM you already?
> To produce ~5000t you'd probably need ~250 000 fingerlings. I think they define 10% of that as pre-commercial.




Sorry Fi$h but i promised not to tell anyone. 

Even 10% of that is big time. Even 1000 could prove the concept and may not even need a capital raising until the market improves.


----------



## FI$H (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, please congratulate him on my behalf then.

Capital raising is indeed not ideal given the current share price. Maybe it's best to take on debt and pay the interest from YTK profits till SBT sales commence. I wish governments would pump a rather small amount of money in prospective and innovative small caps to get them on their feet instead of funding the funeral of blue chips.


----------



## nizora (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

First picture of bred tuna

http://portlincoln.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/first-picture-of-bred-tuna/1494387.aspx

CHRISTOPHER COOTE
22/04/2009 11:30:00 PM
CLEAN Seas Tuna has released a photograph of a 22-day-old juvenile southern bluefin tuna that was bred at its onshore facility at Arno Bay.

Clean Seas chairman Hagen Stehr said the fish is one of many the company has kept alive since the broodstock began spawning early last month.


The fish are about 2.5 centimetres long and Mr Stehr said they are growing faster and faster with each day. Southern bluefin tuna are expected to reach about 10kg within their first 12 months of life.


The company is expecting to "go commercial" with the fish later this year when the temperature of the sea rises so the juveniles can be put into sea cages.


"The only thing that can stop us from making this a commercially viable proposition is human error ... otherwise we can now say we will have fish in the water sooner, rather than later," he said


----------



## FI$H (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

ok, we're not going to win a beauty contest with this one...


I wonder what he means by saying that this is only one of the many they kept alive


----------



## marklar (23 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Cute little fella.  It's great to see something tangible from the years of hard work and $ invested.

m.


----------



## Basilica (24 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> ok, we're not going to win a beauty contest with this one...
> 
> 
> I wonder what he means by saying that this is only one of the many they kept alive




Like i said whel i saw the pics of the NBT 
Only a mother or a fishfarmer could love it.
Do you mean how many is many? 10, 100, 1000, 100000 could all be many.
I must confess fi$h ..... Hagan has not PM me yet with the numbers 
But i am still hopefull he will  
or is it still alive? It look like someone ate a fillit before the photo.


----------



## Basilica (24 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> ok, we're not going to win a beauty contest with this one...
> 
> 
> I wonder what he means by saying that this is only one of the many they kept alive




Like i said when i saw the pics of the NBT 
Only a mother or a fishfarmer could love it.
Do you mean how many is many? 10, 100, 1000, 100000 could all be many.
I must confess fi$h ..... Hagen has not PM me yet with the numbers 
But i am still hopefull he will  
or is it still alive? It look like someone ate a fillit before the photo.


----------



## tge oracle (24 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If you refer to the recent investor update you will note that CSS have reported that fingerling production up to 25,000 is considered pre-commercial.
So it is reasonable to assume that the number of fingerlings could be anywhere between 1 and 24999. 
I suspect CSS will surprise the market with a signifcant quantity , they are just waiting for more fingerlings to mature before updating the market. 

On the issue of finance, my preference woud be for a capital raising as I am convinced there are many significant institutional and sophisticated investors wanting to invest in CSS. This company is surely moving on to the radar of index and large fund managers. It will also get strong support from existing investors now it has achieved these significant milestones and essentially de-risked much of the SBT project.

Finally, I think CSS will provide positive ( surprise ) updates to the market in the future on all aspects of the business. I do believe they will adopt an       " under promise and over deliver "  ( quiet achiever ) approach to reporting in the future.


----------



## prawn_86 (24 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Probably a bit off topic... but how the hell do aquaculture companies count the exact amount of fingerlings they have??? Its not like they will just stop swimming around while people conduct a count


----------



## Basilica (24 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



prawn_86 said:


> Probably a bit off topic... but how the hell do aquaculture companies count the exact amount of fingerlings they have??? Its not like they will just stop swimming around while people conduct a count




I can answer that prawn, At the DPI hatchery we had 2 methods, at the lavae stage a number of scoops were taken from the quite small tanks and counted by hand and averaged then multiplied by the number of scoops in the tank. When at the fingerling stage they were counted by forcing them to swim in to a submerged contanier and counted and removed. (only when an exact count is required) A third method that i use at home is to place them in a shallow white dish so they are swimming mostly 1 deep and photograph them so they as you correctly guessed "Stop Swimming". There are also optical counters that count them as they swim through a pipe going from 1 tank to another. A cashed up company like CSS would use the last method for fingerlings.


----------



## Basilica (24 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> On the issue of finance, my preference woud be for a capital raising as I am convinced there are many significant institutional and sophisticated investors wanting to invest in CSS. This company is surely moving on to the radar of index and large fund managers. It will also get strong support from existing investors now it has achieved these significant milestones and essentially de-risked much of the SBT project.




My two cents, would be to self fund the first batch for a year (to wild catch size)with their current infrastructure. Then do a capital raising with a proven formula into a stronger financial market. If they raise capital soon and there is even a small setback with stock mortality the investers will swim away in schools.


----------



## sashimi (25 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> What is your plan Sashimi, Grow out of wild catch in cages? Breeding?
> I think it is a healthy attitude to assume any company can fail. Value is all about risk vs return. I think "No real possability" is a little too confident in these troubling times.





Begins with yellowfin tuna  grow out rates are something like double.

sashimi market is limited.

Begins in the pacific with hunter gatherer with one tow cage type, operation with the local people and turns from there.

fattening with a  firm contract.

Breeding 

Restocking the wild.

Technically every tuna that is caught can be put in a cage.   
This mean the whole tuna resource. 

Once you pack tuna for a plane the whole world is your market

Hagan should have had some fingerlings last year.


----------



## Basilica (25 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> 1 Begins with yellowfin tuna  grow out rates are something like double.
> 
> 2 sashimi market is limited.
> 
> ...




Wow a lot of areas of interest.
In the order you wrote.

1 Can you double the size of the catch in cages cheaper than catching twice as many.

2 I totally agree, and i remember when Rainbow Trout and Barramundi were very expensive products consumed only in premium restraurants. Now they are farmed in large volumes, they sell for much less. Supply and demand will determin the price. Premium Tuna will also follow the same trend.

3 Do you mean the tow cage will be behind the Trawler and also be used for fattening?

4 Not enough info to comment on except (sounds great if it can be achieved profitably)

5 Very tricky but yes it has been proven possible.

6 Restocking is possible when breeding of fingerling is greater than demand for fingerlings. But for a traveling fish like Tuna, you will spend the money near the equator and they will swim down to Hagen's trawlers and he will catch them before they return to you. Would need to be a multi national effort for tuna.

7 Do you mean to put all tuna into cages?

8 Technically yes but transport is very expensive. Why not just tow the cage to Japan and feed them on the way?

9 I think Hagen and his team have done very well to achieve fingerlings in only their second season of fertalised eggs.  What could they have done to achieve fingerling last year? What is your plan?

Cheers,
Basilica


----------



## sashimi (27 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Wow a lot of areas of interest.
> In the order you wrote.
> 
> 1 Can you double the size of the catch in cages cheaper than catching twice as many.
> ...




1) It woul be cheaper to catch twice as many.

2)

3)  Tow cage and boat together working as a team drifting through especially identified area's with local crew poling fish into a cage,  Before harvesting one a week for the fresh sashimi market.  A tuna cage with fish in it is the best fish aggregating device on the planet bar none.

4) fattening by contract.  In other words when a particular client might come to  you because he requires 100 tonnes of fattened tuna for his or her clients at a given time.

5) Breeding very tricky now but in 10-15 years you will be asking yourself why it took so long?  What was  all the fuss about?

6) Breeding will bring millions if not billions of fertilized eggs.  Only way to utilize all that can be produced will be to release some.

7) It is technically possible to put the whole world tuna catch into a cage and after it can be harvested.  Not necessarily to be fattened.

8) My guess is they did achieve fingerlings last year probably only the 10-20-30-100 that is discussed on this forum . (They certainly should have done)

As far intellectual property right is concerned .
A brood stock some items off the shelf and some basic knowledge and money should be all that is required.  I do not know much about this issue of intellectual property rights and how it works but I believe that breeding tuna in the future will turn out to be a very simple exercise indeed.


----------



## Basilica (27 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> 1)
> 8) My guess is they did achieve fingerlings last year probably only the 10-20-30-100 that is discussed on this forum . (They certainly should have done)
> 
> As far intellectual property right is concerned .
> A brood stock some items off the shelf and some basic knowledge and money should be all that is required.  I do not know much about this issue of intellectual property rights and how it works but I believe that breeding tuna in the future will turn out to be a very simple exercise indeed.




Hi Sashimi,

I am very happy to discuss all aspects of the project you are contemplating. But i wonder if the CSS forum is the place to do it?

I again make the offer to all the "Plankton Eaters" on this Thread If there is room for a General Aquaculture thread in perhaps the "General Chat" Forum. There are a number of topics worthy of discussion that are not specific to CSS or any other companies thread, but are relevant to investers in the industry as a whole. Like overall views of the industry, fishmeal vs land based feed, Reducing fishmeal stocks, Feed supliers, Growth in aquaculture, etc, etc. Is anyone interested in these general topics?

Sashimi you have raised a couple of points that i am happy to address here.
8) Investers have only recently been told that a small number of lavae survived until 5 days old from last years spawning. That is about when the nutrients from the still attached egg were depleted. Can you give any idea why CSS would not disclose it to investor if they achieved fingerling like you suggest? Why do you think they "certainly should have done".

Regarding intelectual property i am not a legal guru but they currently have the secrets but yes it will eventually become common knoledge.

Cheers,
Basilica


----------



## FI$H (27 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi Sashimi,
> 
> I again make the offer to all the "Plankton Eaters" on this Thread If there is room for a General Aquaculture thread in perhaps the "General Chat" Forum. There are a number of topics worthy of discussion that are not specific to CSS or any other companies thread, but are relevant to investers in the industry as a whole. Like overall views of the industry, fishmeal vs land based feed, Reducing fishmeal stocks, Feed supliers, Growth in aquaculture, etc, etc. Is anyone interested in these general topics?
> 
> Regarding intelectual property i am not a legal guru but they currently have the secrets but yes it will eventually become common knoledge.




I think it would be worthwhile discussing all aquaculture related companies in one thread. i.e. the CAQ thread seems to be dead although they recently announced a possible expansion into South Africa. These companies are too small to deserve their own thread  and should be combined in one as long as people find their way to them. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the spread of tuna breeding technology. Aquaculture seems to be like the internet with few players dominating the market. It's very difficult to catch up with the ones that got there first. CSS will be the first company to mass produce bluefin tuna and remain the only one to produce SBT for a long time. The whole European aquaculture sector went up today because of swine flu concerns amongst consumers. Wonder why we're down again 
I guess we'll know where we're at 25-28days after the last day of spawning which was the 16th of April.


----------



## Tysonboss1 (27 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi All,

I love the thought of aquaculture I am thinking about buying some TGR or possibly CSS stock.

I was just wodering when it comes to transport what are the options for transporting into the asian market.

Does the stock have to be transported by air, or are there cheaper options.


----------



## FI$H (27 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Asian consumers demand fresh product and the fish has to be transported to Japan by air where a single fish can fetch ten thousands of dollars. the stehr group has been in the grow-out business for a long time. now their business won't be restricted by wild catch quotas anymore.


----------



## sashimi (28 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Tysonboss1 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I love the thought of aquaculture I am thinking about buying some TGR or possibly CSS stock.
> 
> ...





The point here is will CSS let you take fingerlings out of Australia.

An enterprising venture will only need a few hundred in order to develop a new brood stock. 

Because of the tuna quota system CSS is sitting on top of the pile with southern bluefin and I imagine there will come a day when they will choose a different location for their operation.


----------



## tge oracle (28 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

An positive news article from today's Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25395649-36418,00.html


----------



## sashimi (28 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi Sashimi,
> 
> I am very happy to discuss all aspects of the project you are contemplating. But i wonder if the CSS forum is the place to do it?
> 
> ...




Hi Basilica.

As you well know there are many issues in this business that must have answers that are sometimes not so clear.

I also am beginning to think that this is not the right place for the kind of discussion that is beginning to appear and I am open to suggestions.

As to fingerlings.  If it was my operation and given that I really was gambling on spawning i would know that it could come on suddenly and that we might encounter problems keeping fingerlings alive which are directly associated with the surprise.
But they should have been in a position to save some of them.

I find it difficult to believe that you would not anticipate this kind of potential problem and be prepared for it.  In my view it is the natural evolution of the endeavour.

As far as why it might not be disclosed CSS thinks what is going on is a big secret  and its their secret however I do not know the law related to disclosure   

Even though I have some knowledge I am learning a great deal here.  For me its like filling in the gaps.


----------



## Basilica (28 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I think it would be worthwhile discussing all aquaculture related companies in one thread. i.e. the CAQ thread seems to be dead although they recently announced a possible expansion into South Africa. These companies are too small to deserve their own thread  and should be combined in one as long as people find their way to them.




Finding the thread may be difficult if all aqua companies are together.
I think CSS and TGR are big enough and should keep their own Thread and put all the minnow companies in with a general thread. There have been a lot of OT general comments that will have a suitable place to be discussed.



> I wouldn't worry too much about the spread of tuna breeding technology. Aquaculture seems to be like the internet with few players dominating the market. It's very difficult to catch up with the ones that got there first. CSS will be the first company to mass produce bluefin tuna and remain the only one to produce SBT for a long time. The whole European aquaculture sector went up today because of swine flu concerns amongst consumers. Wonder why we're down again
> I guess we'll know where we're at 25-28days after the last day of spawning which was the 16th of April.




I also have almost no concerns about competitors to CSS breading. All of the Bio-Gurus onside must have at least 5 year secret clauses and that is enough to hold on to the lead position. And "Hagen's Huge indoor Tuna Spar" was bloody expensive. Any future competitors wont have the market to justify spending that money like CSS does.   



sashimi said:


> The point here is will CSS let you take fingerlings out of Australia.
> 
> Because of the tuna quota system CSS is sitting on top of the pile with southern bluefin and I imagine there will come a day when they will choose a different location for their operation.




If they are offered the right price CSS will sell the fingerlings. 





tge oracle said:


> An positive news article from today's Australian.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25395649-36418,00.html




Thanks again for the link Oracle, another one i would have missed. It is surprising they are not bigger than 2 weeks ago, Are they dying at that size and these are different fingerlings? Or old info?



sashimi said:


> Hi Basilica.
> 
> As to fingerlings.  If it was my operation and given that I really was gambling on spawning i would know that it could come on suddenly and that we might encounter problems keeping fingerlings alive which are directly associated with the surprise.
> But they should have been in a position to save some of them.
> ...




I have no hessitation in critising companies when there is even a valid possibility. But you have not provided any reason, technical or motive to back up your theory. Last year was the first spawning and it came partly as a surprise. They then had only "many hours' to grow phytoplankton, feed it to the zooplankton then feed the zooplankton to the tuna lavae. They had eggs as feed but that may not have been a balanced diet. And on top of that huge challange they have no motive at all. they got hammered in the share market, Why would they keep that news a secret. I think you need to back up your claims with at least a theory.


----------



## tge oracle (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks again for the link Oracle, another one i would have missed. It is surprising they are not bigger than 2 weeks ago, Are they dying at that size and these are different fingerlings? Or old info?



I think Hagen / CSS are being very conservative with their reporting this year and wouldn't be too concerned about the precise timelines of the SBT program achievements. The May investor update will reveal all of the facts.


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I think Hagen / CSS are being very conservative with their reporting this year and wouldn't be too concerned about the precise timelines of the SBT program achievements. The May investor update will reveal all of the facts.




Hi Oracle, I agree with you and i am not very concerned It was also less than the 2 weeks i stated only 9 days. Do you think they will still release the May invester update? I took the one 9 days ago to be it released early.


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> I have no hessitation in critising companies when there is even a valid possibility. But you have not provided any reason, technical or motive to back up your theory. Last year was the first spawning and it came partly as a surprise. They then had only "many hours' to grow phytoplankton, feed it to the zooplankton then feed the zooplankton to the tuna lavae. They had eggs as feed but that may not have been a balanced diet. And on top of that huge challange they have no motive at all. they got hammered in the share market, Why would they keep that news a secret. I think you need to back up your claims with at least a theory.




there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.    

I'm no expert but they seem to have a long way to go.  There are other companies how have a proven record of fingerlings hatching and developing into sizable stock and sold on the market. These maybe local but they have sales to keep the company going.

I always thought it rather odd that AAQ flew their finglerlings to the USA by plane. Fish would feel compression like any other living thing along with other effects of flying. Not saying they would do this but it is a an interesting consideration.

Tuna need alot of space to swim and maintain health much more than salmon or barramundi. The more space the healthier and bigger the fish in the wild or one could conclude aquaculture.  So how big are the cages? Not nearly big nor deep enough one would assume to cover the kilometers they swim. How expensive are the 'cages' in the ocean? What are they made of? Insured? Who makes them? If on land in recirculation tanks of any kind then they are not South Sea Tuna by definition.

If no cages how do they intend to monitor the fish, they have the same instincts as any wild animal to 'roam' free in their waters.


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

What will they be fed?
At what stages does the feed change? 
How much do they need each day? 
How much does it cost? What is in the feed? 
Any colours or other 'enhancers'? I understand a company uses a colour in their fed pellets to enhance various attributes of their fish. 
How long do they need to be on feed to grow to their desired size? 
What % of this feed in their life is the 'cost' of the fish when sold? 
What precautions are they taking to prevent against infections if raising the tuna in close proximity?


----------



## truevalue (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.
> 
> I'm no expert but they seem to have a long way to go.  There are other companies how have a proven record of fingerlings hatching and developing into sizable stock and sold on the market. These maybe local but they have sales to keep the company going.
> 
> ...




I think you will actually find that the stock has risen on positive announcements rather than anything that is being said on these forums. Most of the discussion here has simply been analysis of announcements rather than "ramping." I think opinions regarding capital raisings have often been expressed which is hardly what you would do if ramping a stock.

CSS do have a profitable business in Yellowtail Kingfish which provides sales and cash flow to the company.

The reason we are all so excited about the Tuna is because a KG of SBT sells for $25 at the farm gate while a kg of salmon or kingfish sell for $10. The margins are much higher and therefore the opportunity is significant.

Most SBT sold into wholesale markets is farmed tuna to some extent. Schools of young fish are surrounded by nets and towed into Port Lincoln where they are fattened for 6-12 months before harvesting. Hagen and his family have been doing this for years. That wild catch however is subject to annual quotas which means there is a limited number of licences and a limited amount of wild fish that can be taken out of the ocean - hence the high farmgate price.

Growout cages are very big. 60-70m in diameter and 10 meters deep. CSS have 150 broodstock who have lived in one of these cages for over 10 years now and they are in pristine health. The cages are moved on a regular basis and CSS have hundreds of acres of growout licence avaliable so there is no shortage of space. 

The step from here to producing adult tuna is not that far from where the industry is now. They are still 2-3 years away from SBT sales but, in resources terms, they have a proven resource and will be mining that resource soon.


----------



## truevalue (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> What will they be fed?
> At what stages does the feed change?
> How much do they need each day?
> How much does it cost? What is in the feed?
> ...




The total cost of producing a kg of SBT will be around $10. Of that feed is the largest component - say $8. the rset is labor, depreciation, fuel etc.

Tuna are initially feed sea monkeys then when fingerlings they move on to a sustainable fish meal based pellet and finally when older, squid and smaller fish.

They will be grown out for 2 years to 15-20kg.

the science of infection prevention is very important and one in which the company is spending significant amounts on.


----------



## kenny (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

When (I like to be optimistic ) commercial production occurs and the global sale volume of SBT increases, then the price per kg achieved will fall.

I think this has been shown when both Barramundi and Rainbow Trout farming became mainstream.

green08, I agree with Truevalue in saying there's no been much ramping here as much as trying to understand the risks and the prospects. I'm still learning something every time I log into the thread.

Healthy scepticism is always a good thing.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.




Green08, You have quoted me but did not not refer to a single thing i wrote, So i assume I am one of the few you are accusing of ramping. I insist you take the time and read all the posts i have written and the posts i replied to. I think any independant person will conclude that i have made all attempts to rationalise overly optimistic comments and highlighted the risks, critisise blatently favourable  reports in the media and on all ocasions provided my best opinion of the limited information available to investors . Yesterday was the first occasion that i thought i needed to rationalise an overly pesermistic post from a new user who had already declared he was contemplating being a competitor. When you have read all my posts i welcome you to reclarify your opinion.
Basilica


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thank you for your answers. They are valid questions.

Ramping is one thing to another.  There is alot of gusto.

As the fingerlings are @ 20 days old at around 1/4 - 1/2 gram each. The next time frame up to 40 - 50 days of age will be the most challenging to grow them with nutrients.  Mortality rates are generally high especially in a new venture of stock never replicated before.

Then the stage of growing these fingerlings from juvenile to grow out stage in @ 6 months.  

I do hope they have success due to the $26 million in debt and large loss in kingfish previous year.

At this stage the value of Tuna sales are hypothetical on current market prices.

Salmon are sold gutted at around $11 - $11.60 a kg. 

Marine Produce Australian Barramundi is $10 - $10.50 a kg they have a proven plan and strong sales record.  Their biggest hurdle is not being able to produce enough fish for their sales demands.  Which is why they will be continuing with their strong model in expansion.


----------



## tge oracle (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.
> 
> 
> Grren08,
> ...


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> You have quoted me but did not not refer to a single thing i wrote, So i assume I am one of the few you are accusing




I don't believe I singled individuals out - that is your assumption. But hey, if you look at the pages previously optimisium plus.  In fact I wasn't worried about you as you were asking your own questions



> I have no hessitation in critising companies when there is even a valid possibility. But you have not provided any reason, technical or motive to back up your theory. Last year was the first spawning and it came partly as a surprise. They then had only "many hours' to grow phytoplankton, feed it to the zooplankton then feed the zooplankton to the tuna lavae. They had eggs as feed but that may not have been a balanced diet. And on top of that huge challange they have no motive at all. they got hammered in the share market, Why would they keep that news a secret. I think you need to back up your claims with at least a theory.




Naturally people get excited about their particular interest.  I am entitled to make my own analysis


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> 5. Worldwide media exposure of this potential breakthrough.




That's the one.

Good luck to all holders, 

Agree this forum does not control share price.  It is however an open forum and questions can lead to greater clarity.  Fact. Thank you for your input.

Glad you are not an average invester - goodness knows how all the average people reading would consider your comments re: 'average'.

Jumping to conclusions, never asked for your daily full disclosure - that is your private information.

I find it interesting that I ask questions and all the arms go up together.


----------



## truevalue (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> That's the one.
> 
> Good luck to all holders,
> 
> ...





I think Oracle said he was not an average "poster" rather than "investor".

I am the same, having very little interest in adding to the noise of ASF, and I find CSS a far more interesting forum than any others.


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Glad you found a thread you're happy with.

As for the noise - personal opinion. Your relatively new.


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> I don't believe I singled individuals out - that is your assumption. But hey, if you look at the pages previously optimisium plus.  In fact I wasn't worried about you as you were asking your own questions




You quoted me when you made your accusations about Ramping, Why quote me if you were not accusing me? And i consider my comments were very valid. I still insist you read all my previous posts and reconsider your statment. 



Green08 said:


> Then the stage of growing these fingerlings from juvenile to grow out stage in @ 6 months.
> 
> At this stage the value of Tuna sales are hypothetical on current market prices.
> 
> Marine Produce Australian Barramundi is $10 - $10.50 a kg they have a proven plan and strong sales record. Their biggest hurdle is not being able to produce enough fish for their sales demands. Which is why they will be continuing with their strong model in expansion.




This is a valid point that i previously made. The life cycle has not been closed yet. I am not aware of any company that has any experience in the fingerling to wild catch size, part of the life cycle. And CSS has a more difficult task then in the wild as the fingerlings will experience about 10 deg cooler water than what they would have in the warmer waters up north where they would be at this time in their life cycle. They will experience threats that they have no immunity to.

The Farm gate price of MPA Barramundi may now be lower then the price you and they previously quoted. Woolworths is selling Barra fillits for $14 / KG retail. Somone is selling at the farm gate for about $5 / KG  whole fish (At a loss)

I declared my interests in the AAQ forum when i first joined ASF. I have no shares in any Aquaculture companies. That has not changed. But i am shopping around and will have shares in the future when the time is right for my needs.


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Take a chill pill.

Thank you for your opinion.  



> The Farm gate price of MPA Barramundi may now be lower then the price you and they previously quoted. Woolworths is selling Barra fillits for $14 / KG retail. Somone is selling at the farm gate for about $5 / KG  whole fish (At a loss)




MPA do not sell to Woolies - Fact.

Not all Barramundi are the same. - Fact

MPA  sell to the premium market - Fact

Most Barramundi sold through out Australia is from overseas - Fact


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> Take a chill pill.
> 
> Thank you for your opinion.
> 
> ...




Sorry but i am all out of "Chill Pills"

Please let me know why you quoted my response to Sashimi in your allegations of ramping. Do you consider my comments unreasonable?

My quoting of woolies price for fillits was to reflect that even when you can produce quality and quantity you will still tak part in Supply vs Demand


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Sorry but i am all out of "Chill Pills"
> 
> Please let me know why you quoted my response to Sashimi in your allegations of ramping. Do you consider my comments unreasonable?
> 
> My quoting of woolies price for fillits was to reflect that even when you can produce quality and quantity you will still tak part in Supply vs Demand





That's fine to quote Woolies price - I don't shop there.  However, you put these two companies in the same paragraph without clear delination when they have no association at this point at all.


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> That's fine to quote Woolies price - I don't shop there.  However, you put these two companies in the same paragraph without clear delination when they have no association at this point at all.




All Companies compete in supply and demand and i clearly said "Somone is selling at the farm gate for about $5 / KG whole fish (At a loss)" That affects MPA indirectly and my point was the price life cycle of fish will reduce as production increases.

You did not answer ...
"Please let me know why you quoted my response to Sashimi in your allegations of ramping. Do you consider my comments unreasonable"

You selected me to quote when i consider my response to be reasonable. There must be 20 other posts you could have quoted. that i took the effort to state why i thought the post was unreasonable. Please announce why you quoted me in your allegation of ramping, or at least say it was a mistake.


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I selected your quote to highlight someone asking pertaining questions as I do. I was supporting you. If that was unclear - my apologies.  You were being perfectly reasonable.


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> I selected your quote to highlight someone asking pertaining questions as I do. I was supporting you. If that was unclear - my apologies.  You were being perfectly reasonable.




Thank you Green08.

In answer to your other Qs

Beta Carradine is used in feed as a coloring agent for farmed Salmon.
Tuna does not require additional color as far as i know.
"Medicinal" feed containing anti-biotics and medicines for specific conditions are regularly used in the industry. Hormone injections are regularly used to stimulate breeding in male and female fish by hatcheries. But unfortunatly i have no specifics for Tuna. Check out the Skretting web site for more info and try the .au and the .com sites (A major feed supplier)

cheers,
Basilica


----------



## Green08 (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes Skretting 'custom make' pellets for their customers.  Their ingredients are fine quality.  



> Beta Carradine is used in feed as a coloring agent for farmed Salmon.



 Makes the sushi look better


----------



## Basilica (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> Yes Skretting 'custom make' pellets for their customers.  Their ingredients are fine quality.
> 
> Makes the sushi look better




Thats it, no improvement in taste or texture, but the salmon sells better.
I have no problem with beta carradine.


----------



## FI$H (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

How do you avoid ramping when a company is worth ~130 million and announces production goals that are worth 300 million in sales annually. Because this sounds to good to be true people come here to reassure themselves and discuss the risk/potential. Some of your points and criticism are well taken. I believe that fingerling production was probably the last major hurdle to be taken provided the fingerling numbers are high enough. Given enough fingerlings grow out conditions to wildcatch size can be optimized. Most investors realize that and wait for their next announcement to see how many fingerlings they have produced.
Fears that consumers won't like the farmed product are justified.  But given the rising demand in Asia, US and Europe and collapsing wild fisheries there should room for fresh and farmed fish. As mentioned earlier most sold tuna were farmed after being caught in the wild and are fattened for a year in captivity. The Stehr business has been doing this for years! Tuna production requires significant investment in research, facilities, grow-out and of course time. Competition should not be an issue in the mid-term and prices not at threat. They are more likely to climb should the NBT stocks collapse and demand continue to increase. 
Many risks remain and there will be setbacks but I have invested because I think that potential is worth the risk. My biggest fear is that the company goes bust similar to AAQ because of the relatively long lead-up and huge capital requirements till revenues start flowing in.


----------



## tge oracle (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Green08 said:


> That's the one.
> 
> 
> Glad you are not an average invester - goodness knows how all the average people reading would consider your comments re: 'average'.




Green08,

I think perhaps you mis-understood me here. 

What I mean, apart from one comment on the QBE thread ( I hold ) all of my posts are aquaculture related. 
If it wasn't for my particular interest in aquaculture I very much doubt I would post on this share forum and, in fact, it has only been the listing of TGR, CSS and WKL that prompted me to do so as I do like discussing aquaculture and commercial fisheries with other like minded investors.


----------



## tge oracle (29 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Back to the important issue of CSS! 

Here's another report from the aquaculture portal.

http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?ContentId=13290


----------



## tge oracle (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Back to the important issue of CSS!
> 
> Here's another report from the aquaculture portal.
> 
> http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?ContentId=13290




I forgot to mention, click on the youtube link and you will get to view the juvenile fingerlings SBT swimming around in their tank. 
There appears to be a reasonable number in this tank....question is how many?. There may also be more holding tanks with SBT fingerlings.
Judging by the maturity of these fingerlings I think we can safely say they will achieve success in closing out the SBT life cycle.
I would guess these fish are now feeding on a more flexible and readily available diet.


----------



## Basilica (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I forgot to mention, click on the youtube link and you will get to view the juvenile fingerlings SBT swimming around in their tank.
> There appears to be a reasonable number in this tank....question is how many?. There may also be more holding tanks with SBT fingerlings.
> Judging by the maturity of these fingerlings I think we can safely say they will achieve success in closing out the SBT life cycle.
> I would guess these fish are now feeding on a more flexible and readily available diet.




Fast swimmers, even at this age. then will have many tanks and at least 10 sets and maybe 100 sets of at least 4 Replicas being fed say 10 to 100 different diets. 
They still seem about the same size as before though. I wish they would announce the numbers.
They will be trying every thing as feed, that they can get there hands on. My 2 cents woul be to send a boat out to where they would be at this age up north and filter a few meg L of water to catch the plankton and fly them  back and feed it to 1 or 2 sets of replicas just to cover all bases. It may well cost more than safron per kg but so do baby tuna.


----------



## tge oracle (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> My 2 cents woul be to send a boat out to where they would be at this age up north and filter a few meg L of water to catch the plankton and fly them  back and feed it to 1 or 2 sets of replicas just to cover all bases. It may well cost more than safron per kg but so do baby tuna.




I suspect they already have this type of feed Basillica, although it seems they were caught short with the overwhelming quantity of larvae produced.
I would imagine they are trying all types of plankton, krill , fish eggs and other micro orgamisms for larvae feeding.
The fingerlings will have moved to a more staple diet of small fish, fish meal , small prawns etc. which would be much easier to come by and feed them with.


----------



## truevalue (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Fast swimmers, even at this age. then will have many tanks and at least 10 sets and maybe 100 sets of at least 4 Replicas being fed say 10 to 100 different diets.
> They still seem about the same size as before though. I wish they would announce the numbers.
> They will be trying every thing as feed, that they can get there hands on. My 2 cents woul be to send a boat out to where they would be at this age up north and filter a few meg L of water to catch the plankton and fly them  back and feed it to 1 or 2 sets of replicas just to cover all bases. It may well cost more than safron per kg but so do baby tuna.




I think they would be very wary about letting disease into the lab so I doubt they would do that. I understand they have induced a kingfish spawning and fed the tuna kingfish eggs.

Great link Oracle I had not seen that one.

Basilica in regards to your size issue, you are quite correct the growth of the fingerlings has been very low for the first 20 days but then suddenly in the next 10-15 days the growth has been extraordinary. I have been told they now have fingerlings of 5cm or so big enough to go into sea cages. They will not be put into cages because the water is too cold so they will be transferred into a larger tank for the next 6 months.


----------



## Basilica (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I think they would be very wary about letting disease into the lab so I doubt they would do that. I understand they have induced a kingfish spawning and fed the tuna kingfish eggs.
> 
> Great link Oracle I had not seen that one.
> 
> Basilica in regards to your size issue, you are quite correct the growth of the fingerlings has been very low for the first 20 days but then suddenly in the next 10-15 days the growth has been extraordinary. I have been told they now have fingerlings of 5cm or so big enough to go into sea cages. They will not be put into cages because the water is too cold so they will be transferred into a larger tank for the next 6 months.




Yor are right about the quarintine issue. they would much rather grow their own feed. In other species it is not only what type of plankton they eat but what the plankton ate that creates the right diet. I would be surprised if they are on to fish meal yet. high end hunters like tuna like to hunt and not gather.
Next update should be any time now.

OT but MPA had 2 asx releases after 5 yesterday


----------



## truevalue (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> high end hunters like tuna like to hunt and not gather.




You are correct there. Apparantley they lost alot of fish to canibalisation. Pretty tough life in the wild where you get eaten by your siblings.


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_
Basilica in regards to your size issue, you are quite correct the growth of the fingerlings has been very low for the first 20 days but then suddenly in the next 10-15 days the growth has been extraordinary. I have been told they now have fingerlings of 5cm or so big enough to go into sea cages. They will not be put into cages because the water is too cold so they will be transferred into a larger tank for the next 6 months._


Do you have ties to CSS?


----------



## truevalue (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Do you have ties to CSS?




No.

I am a shareholder and like to do my research.

I have been to port lincoln and met management and I talk to alot of people and so I pick up bits and pieces. Some of it is accurate and some nonsense, you dont know until much later which is which. I try to only post things here that I am reasonably confident are true.


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> No.
> 
> I am a shareholder and like to do my research.
> 
> I have been to port lincoln and met management and I talk to alot of people and so I pick up bits and pieces. Some of it is accurate and some nonsense, you dont know until much later which is which. I try to only post things here that I am reasonably confident are true.




Thank you for the clarification. What I like about small companies is that you can comprehend their business to a certain extent as a complete outsider which is very difficult with big corporate groups. unfortunately CSS isn't very transparent despite its small size because of this venture's nature and it's hard to obtain critical information at the right time. all i can hope for is that CSS tuna will be a multi-billion dollar business by 2020 with no catastrophic events till then.


----------



## sashimi (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> You are correct there. Apparantley they lost alot of fish to canibalisation. Pretty tough life in the wild where you get eaten by your siblings.




They are canibals thats how they survive in the wild.  It is what gets them through the very early stage of their life cycle.   

It is also one of the reasons why they spawn billions of eggs in order to survive.


----------



## Basilica (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> _Basilica in regards to your size issue, you are quite correct the growth of the fingerlings has been very low for the first 20 days but then suddenly in the next 10-15 days the growth has been extraordinary. I have been told they now have fingerlings of 5cm or so big enough to go into sea cages. They will not be put into cages because the water is too cold so they will be transferred into a larger tank for the next 6 months._
> 
> 
> Do you have ties to CSS?




They can get good growth in tanks as temp, o2 can be optimised.

I have no ties to CSS and no shares yet. I did make a phone call in response to a job add about 2 years ago, but they were only offering 50% of my bottom dollar so i did not apply.


----------



## Basilica (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I have no ties to CSS and no shares yet. I did make a phone call in response to a job add about 2 years ago, but they were only offering 50% of my bottom dollar so i did not apply.




This was about the time Hagen was telling the press he cant fill vacancies and the Gov should allow O/S workers in to the country to fill vacencies.


----------



## tge oracle (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Fellow aquaculture investors,

I don't know if you are aware of the Australia Aquaculture Portal but it is very informative and is updated with aquaculture news from throughout the world on a daily basis. The link is below:

http://www.australian-aquacultureportal.com/press/aquaculture_news.html


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> This was about the time Hagen was telling the press he cant fill vacancies and the Gov should allow O/S workers in to the country to fill vacencies.




Sorry, I meant truevalue because he seemed to know things that weren't released yet. you can't post less than 100 characters here. that's why i left the quotation tags out. 
they might offer you more pay once the revenues are flowing in. but hopefully you'll stay invested till then and won't need to work anymore


----------



## Basilica (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Sorry, I meant truevalue because he seemed to know things that weren't released yet. you can't post less than 100 characters here. that's why i left the quotation tags out.
> they might offer you more pay once the revenues are flowing in. but hopefully you'll stay invested till then and won't need to work anymore




Thats OK Fi$h i have nothing to hide. I acually started laughing when i heard the wage they were offering and no options included either (It was in the hatchery so the job would of been cool). i m past the idea of a job now, Hope to buy a yact over the nex year and sail the world. 

I was also curious where the 
"I have been told they now have fingerlings of 5cm" 
size came from.

Cheers


----------



## tge oracle (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The March quarterly cash flow report looks pretty impressive. What do you think Truevalue, Fi$h, Basiilica?

It looks like the YTK sales are really starting to ramp up , excuse the pun.
Hagen is providing a temporary line of credit whilst they determine the scope of the Cap raisiing, This is very prudent, in my opinion, but I don't think much of the Stehr group funds will be drawn down if YTK sales continue to grow at the present rate.
I was very anxious to see the SBT business succeed but it has always been as equally as important, for me , to see YTK business succeed. 
TGR are proof that you can succeed with aquaculture products once you achieve economy of scale. CSS have reached that milestone with YTK , it should only get better from now on as they increase biomass.


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If I'm not mistaken they've secured a 5 million $ credit to delay capital raising . The management is apparently very confident the stock will trade higher soon! I'd really hate to see a stock dilution at this point of time to be honest.


----------



## tge oracle (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> If I'm not mistaken they've secured a 5 million $ credit to delay capital raising . The management is apparently very confident the stock will trade higher soon! I'd really hate to see a stock dilution at this point of time to be honest.




Gee that was quick Fi$h! I'd only just stopped typing!

Yes, this will allow more time to determine the scale and timing of the Cap raising but I think that it is very appropriate for the time being. 
The market needs time to value CSS on the basis of the YTK news and the pending SBT update. 
It may take some time for this to " sink in" but the market will reflect these values accordinlgy. If the SBT update is very poistive I would expect to see a material re-evaluation of CSS.


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

the net operating cash flow has been reduced from -12.9 million to -12.1 million for the whole year. To break-even (or have a small loss as they announced) they have to sell ~4000t at a 3$ per kg margin in the coming quarter. is this realistic or am i missing something?


----------



## truevalue (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> the net operating cash flow has been reduced from -12.9 million to -12.1 million for the whole year. To break-even (or have a small loss as they announced) they have to sell ~4000t at a 3$ per kg margin in the coming quarter. is this realistic or am i missing something?




Yes you are mising something. Operating cashflow is not profit. Operating cashflow will significantly lag profit in a growing business because Cleanseas is having to invest in growing out its biomass today that it will sell tomorrow. So while sales today may be 3000t pa CSS is growing 5000t and this means that they make a profit on the 3000t but the extra 2000t in production is eating up cashflow that will not be recouped until that fish is eventually sold. this is called working capital drain.

I was very happy to see operating cash flow positive for the quarter after a few quarters of very negative numbers. This means that sales revenue is starting to catch up to cash outlays in production and some of the pressure is taken off the reliance on bank debt.

Obviously when the tuna is being grown out operating cashflow will be very negative for a number of years.


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

sorry, i'm a little bit tired. i noticed something was fishy when i compared it to the march quarterly 2008. revenues are up from 5.5 million (march 2008) to 8.8 million (march quarter 2009). the next quarter should be significantly stronger (june quarterly 2008 7.2 million).


----------



## truevalue (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> sorry, i'm a little bit tired. i noticed something was fishy when i compared it to the march quarterly 2008. revenues are up from 5.5 million (march 2008) to 8.8 million (march quarter 2009). the next quarter should be significantly stronger (july quarter 2008 7.2 million).




Yes european spring/summer is the biggest selling period for CSS so the final quarter should show some nice sales numbers (and profits).

I think the capital raising will probably be relatively small as the board is aware the shares are undervalued. I would imagine a 1 for 8 or 1 for 7 rights issue with maybe an institutional placement. Say $10-15m all up. I think that would do them for the next 12 months anyway.


----------



## FI$H (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

they say they need 100 million for three years of SBT grow-out. does the grow out require a third of that every year or will it increase gradually (i.e. 20 million 2010, 30 million 2011, 50 million 2012)?


----------



## nickmyszkowski77 (30 April 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

hey all...i only just joined ASF and considering to invest for the first time...obviously in CSS...in sayin that hopefully this isnt too stupid of a question...but i was just wonderin whilst lookin at the price history chart for CSS on the ASX website it shows that in the beginning of april the stock was valued in the high 70c range but then fell to the mid 50c range...

anyways i really wana start lol...start understanding what goes on with stock exchange and how to make smart investments etc....

my question is why did it make that fall? only to really return to the same price within,what looks like, less than 2 weeks...

thanks everyone


----------



## tge oracle (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nickmyszkowski77 said:


> hey all...i only just joined ASF and considering to invest for the first time...obviously in CSS...in sayin that hopefully this isnt too stupid of a question...but i was just wonderin whilst lookin at the price history chart for CSS on the ASX website it shows that in the beginning of april the stock was valued in the high 70c range but then fell to the mid 50c range...
> 
> anyways i really wana start lol...start understanding what goes on with stock exchange and how to make smart investments etc....
> 
> ...





Nic,

The answers to your questions are covered in earlier posts. I suggest you carefully read comments and information on this thread in addition to the ASX announcements. Furthermore, the CSS website provides abundant information on CSS's activities.
I also susggest you do you own research and understand what you are investing in, if you decide to buy , and don't rely on the opinions of myself or others on this forum.

Good luck!


----------



## tge oracle (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Fi$h / Truevalue,

The headline number for me was Revenue. This is increasing dramatically from previous quarters. If Revenue doesn't increase then everthing else is irrelevant, to a degree. They are obviously succeeding with their marketing drive and increased YTK biomass.

Here's how I see it:

Mar 08 Rev  - 5491
Mar 09 Rev  - 8768

Jun 08 Rev  - 7160
Predcited Rev Jun 09 - 11486


The predicted Rev has been calculated on a linear scale, I actually think it is increasing exponentially and wouldn't be surprised to see it well above this figure.
As Truevalue pointed out, profit numbers will lag initial increases in Revenue.
It's all heading in the right direction ,in my view, and is very similar to TGR a few years ago with Salmon sales and biomass increases.

I agree with Truevalue, Cap raising will be incremental , so around 10-15M this time.


----------



## truevalue (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> they say they need 100 million for three years of SBT grow-out. does the grow out require a third of that every year or will it increase gradually (i.e. 20 million 2010, 30 million 2011, 50 million 2012)?




I think i have said before that I think they will probably raise around $60m in equity over the next 3 years. $30m of the $100m will come from debt facilities and $10m from governmant grants.

They will not need much money until commercialisation so lets say $10-15m now for tanks and debt reduction, $25m next year for feed, boats and cages, and $20-$25m in 2012.


----------



## nickmyszkowski77 (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Nic,
> 
> The answers to your questions are covered in earlier posts. I suggest you carefully read comments and information on this thread in addition to the ASX announcements. Furthermore, the CSS website provides abundant information on CSS's activities.
> I also susggest you do you own research and understand what you are investing in, if you decide to buy , and don't rely on the opinions of myself or others on this forum.
> ...




Hey thanks for the reply oracle...ive looked backk at the posts and ASX announcements around when the fall happened...and all i culd find is the trading halt...so was the tradin halt the reason the stock price went down? wuldnt it just stay the same?
thx


----------



## FI$H (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Nick,

stock prices at low volume are meaningless. Volumes are usually up after news/rumors/insider knowledge. for you as an investors it can mean that you can buy the stock well below value when volumes are low but it also means that you have to sell it well below value if you desperately need cash. some institutional investors (UBS) ceased to be substantial holders last year because of the economy putting pressure on CSS for no fundamental reasons.


----------



## nickmyszkowski77 (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Nick,
> 
> stock prices at low volume are meaningless. Volumes are usually up after news/rumors/insider knowledge. for you as an investors it can mean that you can buy the stock well below value when volumes are low but it also means that you have to sell it well below value if you desperately need cash. some institutional investors (UBS) ceased to be substantial holders last year because of the economy putting pressure on CSS for no fundamental reasons.




okay i understnad that now  thanks...im just goin out ona  limb now but, is there like a general rule of thumb about the Volumes?ie rite now CSS Volumes are at 298,957...is that big?or is that small?....or does this change withe very company?

hopefully u get wat im askin 

thanks


----------



## Basilica (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> The headline number for me was Revenue. This is increasing dramatically from previous quarters. If Revenue doesn't increase then everthing else is irrelevant, to a degree. They are obviously succeeding with their marketing drive and increased YTK biomass.
> 
> Here's how I see it:
> 
> ...




Thats not how i see it Oarcal

The March 09 - 876K revenue. This quater was the period they stopped producing Mulloway. Although not overly profitable they would have sold all their mulloway stocks live / market that would increase revenue for the quater possibly buy a larger amount than Mullaway contributed to the previous quater. But anyway the no longer produce mullaway so it is a one off contributer. We have not been told the sales $ of this fish for this Q.

On cash flow topic the 500,000 grant is also a one off so if you remove the 500k and the unknown value of mulloway it may be no better than March 08 revenue and a loss or breakeven. And next Q may be no better using your projection method. Have i misunderstood the figures?


----------



## FI$H (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nickmyszkowski77 said:


> okay i understnad that now  thanks...im just goin out ona  limb now but, is there like a general rule of thumb about the Volumes?ie rite now CSS Volumes are at 298,957...is that big?or is that small?....or does this change withe very company?
> 
> hopefully u get wat im askin
> 
> thanks




70 000 change owners on a typical day.
200 - 300 000 are normal for periods shortly after or before big news.
500 000 - 1 million when there are breaking news


----------



## Basilica (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_Thats not how i see it Oarcal

The March 09 - 876K revenue. This quater was the period they stopped producing Mulloway. Although not overly profitable they would have sold all their mulloway stocks live / market that would increase revenue for the quater possibly buy a larger amount than Mullaway contributed to the previous quater. But anyway the no longer produce mullaway so it is a one off contributer. We have not been told the sales $ of this fish for this Q.

On cash flow topic the 500,000 grant is also a one off so if you remove the 500k and the unknown value of mulloway it may be no better than March 08 revenue and a loss or breakeven. And next Q may be no better using your projection method. Have i misunderstood the figures?_


I have 2 corrections to make to the above statement.

1 Sorry i misspelt you name Oracle, I am a lazy typist, and there is no spell check.

2 Revenue was $8768 K not the $876K i said

But the conclusion is the same, I think it is important to remove 1 off items in revenue when you project forward to estimate future earnings, But i welcome any opinions that differ from my theory.


----------



## truevalue (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> _
> 
> I have 2 corrections to make to the above statement.
> 
> ...



_

Firstly would only say that the $8768k does not include the grant you mention. The grant is reported seperately. So oracles numbers are correct as they stand.

Second the grant is not a one off. You will find that CSS will receive many millions in government grants over the next few years as they continue their R&D efforts.

Thirdly I think the sales of Mulloway would not have made up more than 5% of sales - so not that significant and the fact that they stop production of mulloway simply means more kingfish can be grown and sold with the capacity released so sales are unlikely to be affected by the mulloway discontinuing._


----------



## tge oracle (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Firstly would only say that the $8768k does not include the grant you mention. The grant is reported seperately. So oracles numbers are correct as they stand.
> 
> Second the grant is not a one off. You will find that CSS will receive many millions in government grants over the next few years as they continue their R&D efforts.
> 
> Thirdly I think the sales of Mulloway would not have made up more than 5% of sales - so not that significant and the fact that they stop production of mulloway simply means more kingfish can be grown and sold with the capacity released so sales are unlikely to be affected by the mulloway discontinuing.




Thanks Truevalue, I was just about to type my reply having been out for the day. You have made the points I was going to make.

The main point I was trying to make this morning is that receipts from customers ( sales ) have increased substantially. I regard this as a very positive sign as it indicates that their marketing / sales is improving and it would appear they are gaining more customers, or, their exsisting customers are ordering more YTK. Either way it looks good.


----------



## Basilica (1 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Firstly would only say that the $8768k does not include the grant you mention. The grant is reported seperately. So oracles numbers are correct as they stand.




In a normal Q it may be the 5% you stated. But if CSS has sold all stocks in cages of different sizes to other farmers and to market it is likley to be greater than a normal Q

I also reported the grant seperatly under cash flow not in the revenue paragraph. the grant and Mullaway are in the cash flow. But i should not have used the word revenue in the cash flow paragraph. 



tge oracle said:


> The main point I was trying to make this morning is that receipts from customers ( sales ) have increased substantially. I regard this as a very positive sign as it indicates that their marketing / sales is improving and it would appear they are gaining more customers, or, their exsisting customers are ordering more YTK. Either way it looks good.




Until we know the value of the Mulloway sold we do not have the info needed to project future revenue, as mulloway will not provide any further revenue. That is my point.


----------



## truevalue (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Another update from CSS.

Things progessing well. Oldest fingerlings are now 8cm in length. They have 3 batches of varying ages.

$6m in mulloway inventory that will be sold over the next 15 months will provide sales and cashflow.

Interesting that next spawning of SBT will be in October this year with fingerlings going into sea cages in December. The company is now saying they can "turn on" the broodstock and make them spawn when they want them to. That is a very positive sign.


----------



## kenny (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Good news regarding the continued survival of fingerlings and the reinforced statement of confidence in the Kingfish side of the business. 

Book value by CSS of Mulloway is $6M. What they get for the inventory when sold remains to be seen.

Does the fact that the fingerlings need to be shifted out of cold winter waters mean this will need to be done each batch in the future? That will limit the future production volumes to available holding tanks which are presumably more costly to buy/maintain than sea cages.

Regards,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Does the fact that the fingerlings need to be shifted out of cold winter waters mean this will need to be done each batch in the future? That will limit the future production volumes to available holding tanks which are presumably more costly to buy/maintain than sea cages.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kenny




No the fingerlings would normally go into sea cages now but the water is too cold. In future they will put them into sea cages when the water is warmer and then they will be bigger and better able to cope with the colder water when winter comes around again. They just will time the spawnings a little better.


----------



## FI$H (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Will we eventually get to know the fingerling numbers?

_We expect to release more detailed results in 3Q CY2009._

Isn't that now?

They forecast a break-even for the kingfish business. This could be a conservative estimate and we might even see some profit! 

_The company looks forward to transferring its next run of SBT
fingerlings to sea cages for growout on or about 31 December 2009._

They seem to be very confident that they'll have a significant quantity of fingerlings very soon.


----------



## truevalue (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Will we eventually get to know the fingerling numbers?
> 
> _We expect to release more detailed results in 3Q CY2009._
> 
> Isn't that now?




3rd quarter Cy 2009 is july to september

I think the reason the numbers are not being released is because the numbers are changing on a daily basis (some new some dying) so they want to wait until numbers stabilise before making an announcement. What is more important than numbers is still having fish alive now.


----------



## Basilica (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Will we eventually get to know the fingerling numbers?
> 
> _We expect to release more detailed results in 3Q CY2009._
> 
> Isn't that now?




No, that is 3Q Calander Year 



truevalue said:


> Another update from CSS.
> 
> Things progessing well. Oldest fingerlings are now 8cm in length. They have 3 batches of varying ages.
> 
> $6m in mulloway inventory that will be sold over the next 15 months will provide sales and cashflow.




8cm is a good size. How many would be good to know.
They are doing well achieving this so quickly. 

The $6M in Mulloway was at 31 st Dec 08 many would have sold last Q and remaining will sell over next 15 months.


----------



## tge oracle (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Another update from CSS.
> 
> Things progessing well. Oldest fingerlings are now 8cm in length. They have 3 batches of varying ages.
> 
> ...





Yes, this latest update indicates they are making very good progress on all fronts. 
The rapid growth rate of the SBT fingerlings is very encouraging and the positive outlook for YTK will help support cash flow requirements and will provide more " breathing space " until the first cap raising.


----------



## enigmatic (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Seems to be some strong resistance at 80cents if it breaks that not to sure how high it could run after that but after reading most of the comments on this thread it seems to have some solid fundies

If your wondering 55cents is about as low as i expect this to go in the short term


----------



## FI$H (6 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I don't get why the market doesn't react to all the good news. with an annual production of 5000 the YTK business will generate ~10-15 million of profit. they have about 4000t of fish in the water right now. IMHO the YTK business should be 40-50 cents worth by itself...


----------



## Basilica (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I don't get why the market doesn't react to all the good news. with an annual production of 5000 the YTK business will generate ~10-15 million of profit. they have about 4000t of fish in the water right now. IMHO the YTK business should be 40-50 cents worth by itself...




The market did react Fi$h. It was up 100% in a few months.
Do you mean Why did the market not react again?
The graph Enigmatic displayed does show resistance about 80c
It has been a rollercoaster journey so far, more longterm investors and less short term speculaters is a sign of stability i am looking for and maybe that is occuring. The level of debt is also something i would like to see reduce not increase.


----------



## truevalue (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I don't get why the market doesn't react to all the good news. with an annual production of 5000 the YTK business will generate ~10-15 million of profit. they have about 4000t of fish in the water right now. IMHO the YTK business should be 40-50 cents worth by itself...




Well the dreaded capital raising has finally been announced. You might actually argue that the stock has performed reasonably well given the common knowledge of a capital raising being imminent. I have seen plenty of stocks get sold down dramatically as soon as the market gets even a sniff of a potential raising.

No details yet but I suspect they will raise $15 million or so via a rights issue and placement at 55-60c.


----------



## FI$H (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> The market did react Fi$h. It was up 100% in a few months.
> Do you mean Why did the market not react again?
> The graph Enigmatic displayed does show resistance about 80c
> It has been a rollercoaster journey so far, more longterm investors and less short term speculaters is a sign of stability i am looking for and maybe that is occuring. The level of debt is also something i would like to see reduce not increase.




Sure, the development has been good given the economic climate.
But we're well short of the highs seen after past announcement. does it count for nothing that YTK division does better than expected?


----------



## FI$H (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Well the dreaded capital raising has finally been announced. You might actually argue that the stock has performed reasonably well given the common knowledge of a capital raising being imminent. I have seen plenty of stocks get sold down dramatically as soon as the market gets even a sniff of a potential raising.
> 
> No details yet but I suspect they will raise $15 million or so via a rights issue and placement at 55-60c.




That's a lot of new shares... I wish there was a better way to bridge the capital needs till SBT sales commence. Taking on more debt is probably not a good option either.


----------



## truevalue (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> That's a lot of new shares... I wish there was a better way to bridge the capital needs till SBT sales commence. Taking on more debt is probably not a good option either.




I think this is a good capital bridge. I would rather they raise only $15m now rather than $50m. $15m probably gives them the near term capital they need and they should be able to raise additional capital in 9-12 months time when they have a commercial run of SBT. That capital should be done at a much higher price.


----------



## FI$H (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I think this is a good capital bridge. I would rather they raise only $15m now rather than $50m. $15m probably gives them the near term capital they need and they should be able to raise additional capital in 9-12 months time when they have a commercial run of SBT. That capital should be done at a much higher price.




I agree, time is definitely on our side. It seems that landing a fish requires a lot of patience even if you're farming it.


----------



## dkam (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Apparently only 250 fingerlings.

"About 250 fingerlings have been kept from this year's trial breeding program. "
- http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25442760-5003680,00.html
(BTW: I'm a long term CSS investor)


----------



## truevalue (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



dkam said:


> Apparently only 250 fingerlings.
> 
> "About 250 fingerlings have been kept from this year's trial breeding program. "
> - http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25442760-5003680,00.html
> (BTW: I'm a long term CSS investor)




The dangers of youth and speed....... "The steering fin is not developed and because they can go 40 to 50km an hour, they are hitting their heads on the side of tanks'' 

I had heard they had 1000 fingerlings so I wonder if that 250 number is just the fingerlings at Arno Bay with the remainder being at the other two hatcheries.


----------



## nizora (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

May 06, 2009 11:30pm
THE Southern Bluefin Tuna at Clean Seas Tuna's Arno Bay hatchery could be worth thousands in three years.

Weigh up to 50kg each, it will be a reminder of one of the most visionary primary production breakthroughs in Australia's history. It follows Clean Seas' world-first production of southern bluefin tuna fingerlings this summer. 

About 250 fingerlings have been kept from this year's trial breeding program. Clean Seas Tuna chairman Hagen Stehr said the survivors were growing so quickly they were marching towards 10cm in length after just 42 days. 

Mr Stehr said the tuna were expected to reach 10kg in the first year, 20kg in the next year and up to 50kg in year three. 

By comparison, the kingfish bred by Clean Seas at Arno Bay reach 1.5kg to 2kg in the first year. 

Mr Stehr said it had kept three batches of fingerlings for research and development trials this year. 
They have been transferred to holding tanks at the hatchery because the sea water is too cold for them. 

Mr Stehr said some were dying from cannibalism and others from tank collisions. 

"The steering fin is not developed and because they can go 40 to 50km an hour, they are hitting their heads on the side of tanks,'' he said. 

"We know how to overcome it, which we've got to do before we start growing them commercially.'' 
Mr Stehr said it was planned to resume breeding next November-December and place the first fingerlings in the sea after 35 days. 

"We want to sell the first fish at maybe 2kg each, hopefully by Easter next year, from the batch we produce in November,'' he said. 

Mr Stehr expects enormous demand for the tuna because propagated northern bluefin tuna are selling for about $150/kg at Gordon Ramsay's London restaurant. 

Clean Seas said yesterday it expected to trade positively in the second half of 2008-09, with a break-even EBITDA for the full year. 

It also confirmed yesterday that it was shutting down its mulloway farming program


----------



## Basilica (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



dkam said:


> Apparently only 250 fingerlings.
> 
> "About 250 fingerlings have been kept from this year's trial breeding program. "
> - http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25442760-5003680,00.html
> (BTW: I'm a long term CSS investor)




This should have been released to all investers at the same time. On ASX and not to just some investers who read Adelaide newspapers and had the chance to sell before trading halt.
Just in case anyone forgot. I was the one who said "If they even get a hundred in the cage they will have done well. 
Death by Tank Collision .... that is a new one for me. Can the fingerlings swim that fast?


----------



## tge oracle (7 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> This should have been released to all investers at the same time. On ASX and not to just some investers who read Adelaide newspapers and had the chance to sell before trading halt.
> Just in case anyone forgot. I was the one who said "If they even get a hundred in the cage they will have done well.
> Death by Tank Collision .... that is a new one for me. Can the fingerlings swim that fast?




I suggest we wait for the announcement before jumping to our own conclusions . They should release all of the relevant information, presently being speculated about , with the Cap raising advice.

Notwithstanding the above, I do beleive a Cap rasining is the right decision at this time and I don't support increasing debt. They have credibility issues to resolve and there is no way the market is going to mark them any higher until they can deliver. They only have themselves to blame for this, their lax corporate disclosures have undermined confidence for the time being. The good news is that , I believe, market confidence will return as they deliver on their goals and CSS will be re-rated accordingly.

I wll comment further after the announcement.


----------



## Basilica (8 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I suggest we wait for the announcement before jumping to our own conclusions .




I do not think i am jumping to any conclusions. The Number of 250 survivors was printed in an Adelaide newspaper where Hagen gave an interview. Although the 250 is not a surprise to me, the people who read Hagens previous interviews or this forum may have been expecting millions of fingerlings to survive. The quantity of survivors is market sensitive, and some people knew the number before the trading halt.


----------



## tge oracle (8 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I do not think i am jumping to any conclusions. The Number of 250 survivors was printed in an Adelaide newspaper where Hagen gave an interview. Although the 250 is not a surprise to me, the people who read Hagens previous interviews or this forum may have been expecting millions of fingerlings to survive. The quantity of survivors is market sensitive, and some people knew the number before the trading halt.




Yes, you have a valid point Basilica. If this does ,indeed, prove to be correct it would be unacceptable to release this information to newspapers prior to informing investors. Let's wait and see how many fingerlings they did produce.

On another issue, one of the comments I was going to make after the Cap raising details was about Managemnt of CSS. I have been considering how CSS will be effectively and productively mangaed in to  the future and believe that a dedicated Manager, with experience, should be appointed. 
Hey presto! in this mornings aquaculture news....new CEO appointed.
Refer link : 

http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?ContentId=13342


----------



## kenny (8 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the link, tge oracle.

A quick Google to find some information on him led to these links if anyone is interested;

http://outernode.pir.sa.gov.au/foodSA/talking_food/food_talk_magazine/autumn_2005/face_of_food_-_capturing_the_corporate_life_in_rural_sa


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/14/2216778.htm

Can someone tell me if 50 million fertilised eggs to 30 million larvae to 250 fingerlings is an expected survival rate?

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (8 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Can someone tell me if 50 million fertilised eggs to 30 million larvae to 250 fingerlings is an expected survival rate?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kenny




No. 1% would be considered to be a failure. 5% would be good.

The reason for the high mortality rate was firstly because they could not house 50m eggs and unfortuately a large portion had to be discarded. Secondly they were unprepaired for such large numbers and did not have enough feed and so lost alot of fish to canibalism. Thirdly the tanks they had turned out to be too small and a large number if fish died bashing themselves to death on the sides. They are investing in new larger tanks that will ensure a far higher survival rate in the future.


----------



## Basilica (8 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> On another issue, one of the comments I was going to make after the Cap raising details was about Managemnt of CSS. I have been considering how CSS will be effectively and productively mangaed in to  the future and believe that a dedicated Manager, with experience, should be appointed.
> Hey presto! in this mornings aquaculture news....new CEO appointed.




Interesting Oracle, Do you think he will be working full time or mostly for board meetings?



kenny said:


> Can someone tell me if 50 million fertilised eggs to 30 million larvae to 250 fingerlings is an expected survival rate?




There is no expected survival rate for SBT as this is new territory.
Many species have a low survival rate of fertalised eggs. The percentage is not critical as tending for huge numbers is low cost. The important factor is can you produce enough for your needs. In this case 250 is not enough for CSS to profit on, but it is enough to gain experience in the next stage of the life cycle. 



truevalue said:


> No. 1% would be considered to be a failure. 5% would be good.
> 
> The reason for the high mortality rate was firstly because they could not house 50m eggs and unfortuately a large portion had to be discarded. Secondly they were unprepaired for such large numbers and did not have enough feed and so lost alot of fish to canibalism. Thirdly the tanks they had turned out to be too small and a large number if fish died bashing themselves to death on the sides. They are investing in new larger tanks that will ensure a far higher survival rate in the future.




I think 1% of 50M would be considered successfull as 500K is a commercial qty. I agree with most of your reasons why survival is low and they are not impassible, and in future i would expect many times more surviving.


----------



## tge oracle (9 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Interesting Oracle, Do you think he will be working full time or mostly for board meetings?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## truevalue (11 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The CSS announcement has been delayed until tomorrow. 

I doubt there is anything sinister in this, rather that there was probably more demand for the institutional placement then they expected. 

Hopefully they will limit the placement size somewhat to keep the institutions hungry for stock and also to prevent us poor, loyal, retail shareholders from being diluted too much.

I am thinking a $20-$25m raising now.


----------



## FI$H (11 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> The CSS announcement has been delayed until tomorrow.
> 
> I doubt there is anything sinister in this, rather that there was probably more demand for the institutional placement then they expected.
> 
> ...




I wish I had sold this one when it was over a dollar. 

it seems to me that small investors are the last to be informed about relevant developments and cap raising will go at our expense again...

does anyone know why bid prices of stocks change on ASX after trading hours? Right now it says bid 86c. what does that mean?


----------



## tge oracle (11 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I wish I had sold this one when it was over a dollar.
> 
> it seems to me that small investors are the last to be informed about relevant developments and cap raising will go at our expense again...
> 
> does anyone know why bid prices of stocks change on ASX after trading hours? Right now it says bid 86c. what does that mean?




Brokers and traders playing " silly buggers " Fi$h. Don't worry about it , it happens all the time. What really matters is does CSS have a viable long term growth profile. I believe it does and trust that this will be confirmed by tomorrow's announcement.
CSS has the capacity to be a very long term consistant growth stock and a lot will hinge on their plan for the furure.  

I will make futher comment after disgesting, metaphorically speaking , the finer details .


----------



## FI$H (11 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

but can growth keep pace with the dilution?

would any institution that is participating in the cap raising be able to obtain a similar stake in the company on the free market for a price that is even close to what they can get it for now?  how much is the new CEO going to make for sharing inside information with institutional investors and local newspapers? 
my advice for people that are interested in CSS is not to buy on good news if it is not coupled with suspiciously high activity the days and weeks before. Reading the AAQ thread helps the gauge management integrity in the aquaculture sector.


----------



## tge oracle (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> but can growth keep pace with the dilution?
> 
> would any institution that is participating in the cap raising be able to obtain a similar stake in the company on the free market for a price that is even close to what they can get it for now?  how much is the new CEO going to make for sharing inside information with institutional investors and local newspapers?
> my advice for people that are interested in CSS is not to buy on good news if it is not coupled with suspiciously high activity the days and weeks before. Reading the AAQ thread helps the gauge management integrity in the aquaculture sector.




I will breifly add my replies to your qusestions:

1. Dilution - Yes,provided growth is viable and exponential.
2. Insto's buying on market - Possibly, but this will depend on volume. CSS is a low volume stock and most would wait for a Cap raising or XT with another insto.
3. CEO - He is , hopefully, going to stamp out this activity. Somebody needs to bring disciplne to this company.
4. Disclosure ( AAQ etc ) - Totally agree. CSS are a victim of their own poor dsiclosure and corporate integrity. This has to stop. They have an opportunity to create one of Australia's leading companies here and need the right personnel to achieve this objective. 
5. Aquaculture integrity - Most small start ups suffer this problem, not just aquaculture. I would exclude TGR from this list however. Their managemnt profile is an example of what the rest should be doing. 

The disclosure today must include all the facts , be open, and transparent.

We'll soon see!


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I wish I had sold this one when it was over a dollar.
> 
> it seems to me that small investors are the last to be informed about relevant developments and cap raising will go at our expense again...
> 
> does anyone know why bid prices of stocks change on ASX after trading hours? Right now it says bid 86c. what does that mean?







FI$H said:


> but can growth keep pace with the dilution?
> 
> would any institution that is participating in the cap raising be able to obtain a similar stake in the company on the free market for a price that is even close to what they can get it for now?  how much is the new CEO going to make for sharing inside information with institutional investors and local newspapers?
> my advice for people that are interested in CSS is not to buy on good news if it is not coupled with suspiciously high activity the days and weeks before. Reading the AAQ thread helps the gauge management integrity in the aquaculture sector.




Hi Fish, 
You have summed up very well why i am still sitting on the side line and not yet an investor. (despite being very interested in the project)
An additional factor for me are the "Related Party Transactions".
I have not calculated it yet but it seem to me that more funds have flowed out of CSS to Hagen ,Then Hagen put into CSS to buy the 50% + ownership.
And Yes Oracle i do realise that goods and services were exchanged for that money, but i do not know the value of those goods and services, investors were not told the full details. Cages have a limited life span and how old they were was a secret.
And Fish i do agree with Oracle not to worry about silly bid and offer prices, That usually happens when stock can not trade and will be remove before opening.


----------



## truevalue (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I wish I had sold this one when it was over a dollar.
> 
> it seems to me that small investors are the last to be informed about relevant developments and cap raising will go at our expense again...
> 
> does anyone know why bid prices of stocks change on ASX after trading hours? Right now it says bid 86c. what does that mean?






FI$H said:


> but can growth keep pace with the dilution?
> 
> would any institution that is participating in the cap raising be able to obtain a similar stake in the company on the free market for a price that is even close to what they can get it for now?  how much is the new CEO going to make for sharing inside information with institutional investors and local newspapers?
> my advice for people that are interested in CSS is not to buy on good news if it is not coupled with suspiciously high activity the days and weeks before. Reading the AAQ thread helps the gauge management integrity in the aquaculture sector.




Fish. Sorry to send you into a spin. I think CSS will certainly not dilute out existing holders too much because that would be diluting Hagen as well. At the end of the day CSS needs capital, lots of it, and to get that capital institutional investors are required. So while you give away a small part of the upside you also get a greater degree of certainty that A - CSS will be well funded and not going into the hands of the banks (which happened to TGR twice) and B - the SBT project can start to go ahead. A project that has a massive payback and will add significantly to all shareholders.

In regard to institutional inside information, that is something that companies and institutions need to be very very careful about. You are wrong to think that institutions are getting and trading on all this inside information being fed to them by companies. It is true that institutions get better access to companies, see their operations, talk to management, competitors etc but really that just gives you a good understanding of the business it doesn't make you an insider. Institutions who do have inside information are not allowed to trade in a stock or they risk losing their licence - your whole business would be destroyed. That is not to say there are not institutions who are unethical - that is to be expected. But I can tell you from experience those guys don't last long.

In regard to the bid of 86c you will find at the start of the day and at the end of the day the market has a "match" process where all bids and offers are matched out at the same price. This was introduced a few years ago to prevent stocks being manipulated at the end of the month or quarter by institutions trying to make their performance look better. From 4pm til 4.10pm (and from 10am til 10.10) all buyers and sellers put their stock in the screen for the match. So while at 4.10 in the afternoon you may see the bid at 86c and the offer at 55c there will be a whole group of trades between them. The ASX matches up trades and determines the final price based upon volumes and prices bid and asked and then all buyers and all sellers get the same price - which may be 78c. So while there are bidders at 86c, they are not expecting to pay 86c but rather the match price. They are only bidding 86c to get to the front of the queue. Your broker can tell you what the match price is going to be.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Fish. Sorry to send you into a spin. I think CSS will certainly not dilute out existing holders too much because that would be diluting Hagen as well. At the end of the day CSS needs capital, lots of it, and to get that capital institutional investors are required. So while you give away a small part of the upside you also get a greater degree of certainty that A - CSS will be well funded and not going into the hands of the banks (which happened to TGR twice)




They are planning to raise 100 million 50% equity 50% debt in the future.
That will put their debt at 28 + 5 + 50 = $83 million interest alone could be between 8 and 12 million a year. Heaps more than they earn now.
Yes they can fail at the hands of the banks.
On the dilution of shareholders value topic the extra 50 M is a big chunck of the current market Cap and about 40% dilution (please check my calcs)
And if the worst happens The Family still owns the Wild Tuna catch licence and knows the secrets of SBT breeding.


----------



## nizora (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

12 May 2009
The Manager Companies
Australian Securities Exchange
89 King William Street
Adelaide SA 5000
CLEAN SEAS TO RAISE $24 MILLION
Clean Seas Tuna Limited (Clean Seas) is pleased to announce a $13.1 million Placement and an underwritten 1 for 8 Rights Issue to raise $10.9 million. Both equity raisings were at $0.55 per share.
The Placement was keenly sought by both professional and sophisticated investors both in Australia and overseas. Helmsec Global Capital Limited acted as Lead Manager for both the Placement and the Rights Issue. As the number of shares being issued is less than 15% of the shares already issued the company has not sought shareholder approval for the placement.
The 1 for 8 Rights Issue allows Clean Seas’ existing shareholders to further participate in the company’s growth plans. Clean Seas’ majority shareholder, Australian Tuna Fisheries Pty Ltd (ATF), has committed to take up $5 million of its entitlement under the Rights Issue. The remaining $5.9 million of entitlements under the Rights Issue have been fully underwritten by Lonsec Limited.
Overall the company will raise some $23.9 million from the equity issues. These funds will provide the company with the initial funding required for the commercialisation of aquaculture bred SBT from its onshore facility at Arno Bay in Spencer Gulf South Australia, commencing December 2009.
Commenting on the capital raising, Clean Seas’ Chairman Hagen Stehr AO stated
“The recent Southern Bluefin Tuna (“SBT”) spawning success over 35 days from 12 March 2009 and subsequent production SBT fingerlings has opened the door for commercial SBT aquaculture production from our next spawning scheduled for Oct/Nov 2009.
The capital raised from these equity raisings will be primarily directed to infrastructure and working capital related to the SBT business. This should allow the development of Australia’s first onshore SBT larval rearing facility at Arno Bay. We look forward to the commencement of sea cage grow out of SBT over the next summer.
The company is encouraged by the depth and extent of support from existing major shareholders, and recommends the Rights Issue to all shareholders”.
KEY DATES
Ex‐date for Rights Issue 13 May 2009
Record Date for Rights Issue 20 May 2009
Settlement of Placement 21 May 2009
Closing Date for Rights Issue 12 June 2009


----------



## kenny (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I for one appreciate the detail in the Memorandum in the breakdown of use of the funds being raised. Can someone shed some light on how the 55c per share might have been calculated?

Also any ideas on the the rate of cash burn of the working capital? I'm assuming the Mulloway sale goes ahead and the Kingfish start contributing.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> 12 May 2009
> CLEAN SEAS TO RAISE $24 MILLION
> Both equity raisings were at $0.55 per share.




55c is a big discount to the 79c at the start of the trading halt.
No mention of fingerling survival. 
or sales of mulloway for last Q. That i have found yet.
The readers of the local paper are very fortunate investers.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> I for one appreciate the detail in the Memorandum in the breakdown of use of the funds being raised. Can someone shed some light on how the 55c per share might have been calculated?
> 
> Also any ideas on the the rate of cash burn of the working capital? I'm assuming the Mulloway sale goes ahead and the Kingfish start contributing.
> 
> ...




Pure negiotiating Kenny 
between institutions and Hagen on one side and CSS on the other.
31% discount


----------



## truevalue (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> I for one appreciate the detail in the Memorandum in the breakdown of use of the funds being raised. Can someone shed some light on how the 55c per share might have been calculated?
> 
> Also any ideas on the the rate of cash burn of the working capital? I'm assuming the Mulloway sale goes ahead and the Kingfish start contributing.
> 
> ...




VWAP for the past 60 days has been 62c Kenny, so 11% discount to that figure, or something like that.

55c looks cheap but it is a very difficult market for raising capital and one of the reasons CSS is not raising more.

If you like the stock at 55c then you can apply for additional shares above your entitlement that become available due to existing shareholders not taking up their rights.


----------



## kenny (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks truevalue.

It's hard for me to value a stock like CSS in the same as one would say put an intrinisic value on say RIO. I agree the likely approach taken was a 20 day VWAP with an applied discount of 20-25% for the risk and small size of the company. It would nice to know the reasons for why an outfit like Lonsec agreed to underwrite the cap raising.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Also any ideas on the the rate of cash burn of the working capital? I'm assuming the Mulloway sale goes ahead and the Kingfish start contributing.




The rate of Cash Burn is not available to ordinary investors.
The previous Q sales included Mulloway sales but was not seperated from total sales for the Q. As they are selling off their Mulloway stocks as discontinued product, we do not know the normal cash burn as last cash flow figures include Mulloway selloff.
If you want to know the unknown .... consult the Oracle


----------



## kenny (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

What do people think of the breakdown of the use of funds?

Shares on issue will rise from 158.5 million to 225.86 million shares. That is adding a maximum of 67365281 shares.

Regards,

Kenny




> SECTION 2: Purpose of the Offer
> On completion, the Offer will raise approximately $10.9 million (before costs). The funds raised will be applied as follows:
> 
> • upgrade of water supply and $1.8 million SBT larval rearing system
> ...


----------



## kenny (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> The rate of Cash Burn is not available to ordinary investors.
> The previous Q sales included Mulloway sales but was not seperated from total sales for the Q. As they are selling off their Mulloway stocks as discontinued product, we do not know the normal cash burn as last cash flow figures include Mulloway selloff.
> If you want to know the unknown .... consult the Oracle




Hi Basilica,

Sadly, I'm all too aware of that. I'm hoping the funds will take CSS to the first commercial sale of SBT but that could be me dreamin'.

We'll find out who took up the placement in due course too I hope.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> It would nice to know the reasons for why an outfit like Lonsec agreed to underwrite the cap raising.




They have a lot of situations in the contract were they can get out of the deal. 
It only for 5 M
They make 5% commision
worst case is the sell at 55c and break even.
Seems low risk for them to me.


----------



## kenny (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

How naive of me. I was thinking they might have seen some merit in the operation. 

Also, wouldn't you include an escrow period for the underwriters to stop the dumping straight after the raising?

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Hi Basilica,
> 
> Sadly, I'm all too aware of that. I'm hoping the funds will take CSS to the first commercial sale of SBT but that could be me dreamin'.
> 
> ...




Kenny, I think the YTK is working capital neutral. Mulloway should release $6m in working capital and $10.6m from this raising should get CSS to 1000 tonnes of SBT in 2 years assuming $10/kg growout. Add in the Mulloway proceeds and to are getting to 1600 tonnes - commercial in my view.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> What do people think of the breakdown of the use of funds?
> 
> I'm hoping the funds will take CSS to the first commercial sale of SBT but that could be me dreamin'.




I am not sure Kenny.

1. I had no idea the water suply needed a 4M upgrade??????  It was only just built.

2. 2M in Nets and cages, Good i guess. It would be nice to know if they are extras or replacements for the used ones they just bought or both.

3. 4M in capitalised SBT propagation costs?????? no idea here Repaying debt to Rabobank maybe?????

4.  2M in additional automated feed systems. Sounds good, may lower labour and improve FCR

5. 10.6M in working capital???? Sounds a lot to me. Maybe an indication of expected Cash Burn?

6 1.2M in costs of Offer and Placement. A sign of the time for companies that NEED to raise funds 

Overall ...... I do not have the info to answer your question.

I doubt there is sufficient funds to see the company through to a positive cash flow (except possibly the brief period during the Mulloway selloff)


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Mulloway should release $6m in working capital.




That 6 M in Mulloway was the value more than a Q ago. Investors have no idea how much was sold last Q but the figure was well known to CSS and they chose  not to let us know at the end of last Q. No way is there still 6M left and any further fattening up will likley be at a loss as they have already proven it to be unprofitable.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> How naive of me. I was thinking they might have seen some merit in the operation.
> 
> Also, wouldn't you include an escrow period for the underwriters to stop the dumping straight after the raising?
> 
> ...




I did a search of the doc that contains the obligations of the underwritter and found no escrow period. They can dump whenever they like as far as i can see. I also thought an escrow period was typical for underwritters.


----------



## FI$H (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

more than 40 million new shares...

What's the plan for this summer? 

Are they aiming for 20 000 or 200 000 fingerlings? Can they generate positive cash-flow by selling all the 2kg fish by the end of summer? Will they sell the 2kg fish to restaurants or other grow-out businesses?


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> more than 40 million new shares...
> 
> What's the plan for this summer?
> 
> Are they aiming for 20 000 or 200 000 fingerlings? Can they generate positive cash-flow by selling all the 2kg fish by the end of summer? Will they sell the 2kg fish to restaurants or other grow-out businesses?




Hi Fi$h,

A plan for this Summer???
We still havent been told what happened last Quarter. 
Or how many fingerlings are still alive.
Will the SBT be 2Kilo by end of summer?
They are not even born yet.
The Japanese will not want 2 kilo tuna.
But other growout companies will, if they have the cage space available.
Restraunts? Maybe, Hagen said that Gorden Ramsey's place was selling Farmed NBT for $150 / Kg but i think Ramsey keeps most of that price.
I you want a positive cash flow think back just before CSS bought out Hagens  growout business with lots of CSS debt. Could have been profit that year. And business plan for SBT could have been to sell fingerlings to other growers this summer without 28M in debt or capal raising. I would own shares today if that had happened.

Cheers,
Basilica


----------



## FI$H (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I you want a positive cash flow think back just before CSS bought out Hagens  growout business with lots of CSS debt. Could have been profit that year. And business plan for SBT could have been to sell fingerlings to other growers this summer without 28M in debt or capal raising. I would own shares today if that had happened.
> 
> Cheers,
> Basilica




i didn't object the growout business purchase because it will eventually refinance itself and added transparence. Given the debt and an environment in which it is difficult to raise capital they have to put the brakes on sbt growout. a business model cannot entirely rely on a best case scenario.


----------



## truevalue (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Good grief! Mad panic on the CSS forum!

Basilica and Fi$h if todays announcement is a suprise to you then you have not been paying attention to what has been said on this thread.

I admit that there is a lack of update in regard to SBT fingerling numbers, they did say the end of May would be the time of the next update.

The way I see it is they are spending $4m on new bigger tanks that are more suited to SBT (one that allow the fingerlings not to bash themselves to death on the sides), $2m in nets, $1.4m on raising costs (ok that is annoying) and the rest, $16-17m, essentially pays down debt until it needs to be drawn for SBT growout from December onwards. 

If you want to grow 10,000 tonnes of SBT you have to invest some money. It doesn't happen for free.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Good grief! Mad panic on the CSS forum!
> 
> Basilica and Fi$h if todays announcement is a suprise to you then you have not been paying attention to what has been said on this thread.
> 
> ...




What mad panic Truevalue?
55c is the big surprise when the last price was 79c
That is a big discount and 40 million shares is a big dilution.
I thought theupdate was end of april


----------



## FI$H (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I thought theupdate was end of april




later they announced another one for late may. 

40 million new shares with no strings attached for their new owners will put the price under significant pressure and conditions for the next cap raising (~30 million $?) will be equally bad or worse.


----------



## truevalue (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> What mad panic Truevalue?
> 55c is the big surprise when the last price was 79c
> That is a big discount and 40 million shares is a big dilution.
> I thought theupdate was end of april




Yep I would have like to have seen a higher price, but even 70c is 35 million shares. Remember also that existing shareholders get to buy at 55c and even ask for extra so their dilution is not as great. I wish the rights issue was more and the placement was less but at the end of the day the company has to decide where they are most likely to successfully tap the market. 

Hopefully the next raising will be at $3.00 in 18 months time when we have 1 million SBT growing big and fat in sea cages. (no harm in hoping)

I think they will update at the end of this month re current SBT numbers and plans for commercialisation.


----------



## truevalue (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> later they announced another one for late may.
> 
> 40 million new shares with no strings attached for their new owners will put the price under significant pressure and conditions for the next cap raising (~30 million $?) will be equally bad or worse.




Fi$h you could say that about any company listed on the market. If there are more buyers than sellers the price will rise. If there are more sellers than buyers the price will fall. That is what happens in the short term. In the long term the price will reflect the underlying fundamentals of the business. If CSS delivers on what it should then the price will reflect that in the long run. Remember CSS has been publically talking about a capital raising since its AGM at which time the price was 30c.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> later they announced another one for late may.
> 40 million new shares with no strings attached for their new owners will put the price under significant pressure and conditions for the next cap raising (~30 million $?) will be equally bad or worse.




I think i missed that anouncement, thanks 
I should subscribe to the local papers to keep informed 
Yes the 40M shares at 55c may cause problems.
They could sell when they recieve them and take a quick profit.
Maybe 55c will be the new bottom?
The next Cap raising will add more presure.


----------



## Basilica (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Fi$h you could say that about any company listed on the market. If there are more buyers than sellers the price will rise. If there are more sellers than buyers the price will fall.




I think the point is that buyers at 55c can sell at 50% profit straight away. That is not normal supply and demand.


----------



## tge oracle (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Having had time to carefully consider today's announcement I thought I should offer my take on the Cap raising.

Firstly, my initial response ( the one I trust most ) was dissapointment. Not with the Cap raising itself , but more the complete lack of detail on progress and quantity of SBT fingerlings produced and future outlook / plans for CSS.
I am dumbfounded that they did not provide specific details on this vitally important aspect of the company. I am well aware that they intend to release this information at the end of May, but I honestly thought that the Cap raising would ( should ) coincide with this timeframe. 
Furthemore , there was no information on the new CEO, surely the ASX will require this to be released to the market officially, not just rely on the aqauculture portal for investor information.
This is vitally important information for investors to make an informed decision on whether, or not , to participate in the share offer. I trust they will release this information forthwith.

I am pleased they have garnered support from larger shareholders for the placement but I would like more details on who participated.
I was hoping that Simplot would significantly raise their stake or another major aquaculture investor like Webster would jump onboard. I think this would have been disclosed if it had been the case, as they did with the last share issue. 
In my view , it is very impotant to have this type of investor onboard as they will help support the future growth of CSS , have a good understanding of the aquaculture industry, and are more likely to invest for the long haul, indeed, I think CSS will need an investor such as this to succeed, as TGR did.
It will certainly add a lot more confidence to CSS investors.

I have no issues or concerns with the actual Cap raisining details and I am pleased they went for a larger raising ie. 24M.

More information please CSS.....and don't wait too long!


----------



## nathanblack (12 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

im not a holder of CSS but enjoy reading this thread. im a bit surprised with the timing. if an announcement is due end may, and that announcement COULD be positive to SP. Why not wait til then to do cap raising? i total agree that a discount is expected in cap raisings, but why not try for the highest possible price if that means waiting a couple of weeks?


----------



## kenny (13 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Welcome to us worriers here at CSS Nathan 

I can see your point tge about being disappointed with the announcement and the lack of detail regarding the current SBT batch. It seemed to me that the management have been careful not to direct the focus too much on the numbers of fingerlings etc in this first run as they probably expected the numbers to be less than impressive.

I think Hagen made a tactical error in the media interview by revealing the unimpressive number of fingerlings. The important factor for the researchers at CSS may well be the survival of a viable number of fingerlings at each stage to achieve beyond reasonable doubt proof of concept for future commercial SBT raising. Announcing X number of surviving fingerlings at regular intervals diminishes the memory of the fact that this is still a process breaking new ground and at risk of running into unforeseen obstacles. Like Tank Wall Collision Deaths 

I am also waiting to see who took up the placement and whether there is a new strategic investor in the mix. Webster is an interesting thought tge. I haven't followed them at all but vaguely recall management there were bemoaning the fact that their holding in Tassal Group was not being rewarded in the Webster share price and that they would consider selling the holding to release value. Hardly sounds like an outfit keen to invest further into aquaculture.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## tge oracle (13 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I wouldn't be so sure about that Kenny, Webster still own 20.6% of TGR. They would have no problem in finding a buyer for that stake, IMO, if they wanted out. I am not suggesting they will take a stake in CSS but I would certainly like to see them do so. Even better, Simplot increase their stake.
We'll soon see.


----------



## kenny (13 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about that Kenny, Webster still own 20.6% of TGR. They would have no problem in finding a buyer for that stake, IMO, if they wanted out. I am not suggesting they will take a stake in CSS but I would certainly like to see them do so. Even better, Simplot increase their stake.
> We'll soon see.




I agree Simplot increasing their holdings would be a vote of confidence from the US food giant. Wouldn't even cost them much.

Oh and Webster finding a buyer for TGR was never an issue. I think they would prefer to hold it and have the market reflect the value of the holding in the Webster share price.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## Basilica (13 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> I think Hagen made a tactical error in the media interview by revealing the unimpressive number of fingerlings.




I think he made legal and a tactical error.
and the timing of one day before a trading halt that was likley to reduce the share price makes it difficult to forgive.

Do we know when the institutions will officially own the newly created shares yet? So we can see who bought them on the ASX announcement.


----------



## Basilica (13 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The announcement of the CEO today.
2 interesting points.

1. Marcus made the announcement not Hagen, First time i can rember that happening.

2. quoted numbers for eggs and lavae but not fingerlings?
Maybe some dissappointments with the fingerling numbers?
As nathanblack said last night if it was good news they would have stated it with the Cap raising to boost share price. Again i am not disturbed by the small number, If hagen had not connected lavae number with adult tuna neither would the market. (The risks of counting your tuna before they hatch ... or is that chickens)  


13 May, 2009
Company Announcements
Australian Securities Exchange Limited
CLEAN SEAS TUNA APPOINTS CEO
Publicly-listed Australian aquaculture pioneer Clean Seas Tuna Limited has appointed Mr Clifford Ashby as Chief Executive Officer to support the company’s strong growth and accelerated penetration of global markets with the pending commercialisation of propagated Southern Bluefin Tuna.
Mr Ashby joins Clean Seas with a management background in listed horticultural companies in Australia and an international corporate finance career in South Africa and the UK.
Clean Seas Managing Director, Mr Marcus Stehr said the Stehr family welcomed Mr Ashby to the company, adding his experience in managing 
publicly-listed primary production companies, new market development and international finance would assist Clean Seas as it expanded production and international distribution of its sustainable fin fish species Yellowtail Kingfish and Southern Bluefin Tuna.
This month, Clean Seas reported the success of its ongoing Southern Bluefin Tuna larval rearing trials based on 35 days of continuous spawning by its SBT broodstock, the production of more than 50 million fertilised eggs and 30 million larvae; and production of SBT fingerlings.


----------



## dkam (13 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

From the CSS management point of view I can see why they don't want to wait for more results on the fingerlings before the cap raising.They know how to keep fingerlings alive, however, I assume they're more interested in the limits. How far they can drop the temperature vs survival rates, etc.

So, I'm guessing they don't want to get caught up on the number of fingerlings and the survival rates of each batch.


----------



## FI$H (14 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I expected that they'd get hammered today. Glad that they did not. Hagen's constant state of euphoria rather than viciousness are probably the reason for recent management inadequacies. The important thing is that they seem to be very confident that they can produce a commercial quantity of fingerlings and keep them alive. Last year they only had a small amount of larvae but knew they could produce millions the year after. Seeing how expensive it is to place the new shares it was probably a good idea to raise 25 million. They couldn't have asked for a higher price given that the stock was trading around 30c not too long ago. So, things could be worse and my fury has calmed down a bit. 

What do you make out of this statement?

“We believe the tuna have the potential to reach 10 kg in the first year, 20kg in the second year and up to 40kg in the third, although we may elect to sell the first of our fish as early as July next year.”

Were larger tanks always factored in as a necessity for commercialization or did they believe they could do it all in the old smaller ones? Will the new tanks be able to hold a commercial quantity of fingerlings or do they have to upscale?


----------



## truevalue (14 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I expected that they'd get hammered today. Glad that they did not. Hagen's constant state of euphoria rather than viciousness are probably the reason for recent management inadequacies. The important thing is that they seem to be very confident that they can produce a commercial quantity of fingerlings and keep them alive. Last year they only had a small amount of larvae but knew they could produce millions the year after. Seeing how expensive it is to place the new shares it was probably a good idea to raise 25 million. They couldn't have asked for a higher price given that the stock was trading around 30c not too long ago. So, things could be worse and my fury has calmed down a bit.
> 
> What do you make out of this statement?
> 
> ...





Hi Fi$h, They found out in the recent trials that the tanks they had were too small. They had thought they would be ok based upon what the Japanese had done, but they turned out to be too small for SBT. The new larger tanks will give them the capacity they need for a commercial run in December.

The growth rates they quote are based upon the growth rates achieved by the Japanese with NBT. It remains to be seen whether SBT grow as quickly (there have been subtle differences between the species) but management say the growth achieved so far has matched their expectations.


----------



## FI$H (14 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

So the 4 million for the new water system are unexpected... it might be an advantage in the long run because it will be easier to maintain good water quality for better growth in them. Can they sell the old system or use it for something else? What impact will the new CEO's sallary have?


----------



## truevalue (14 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> So the 4 million for the new water system are unexpected... it might be an advantage in the long run because it will be easier to maintain good water quality for better growth in them. Can they sell the old system or use it for something else? What impact will the new CEO's sallary have?




I suppose that is true. The old system could be used (or may have been used) for kingfish. I am not sure.

New CEO salary - hard to say but I suspect low(ish) base salary of say $200k and some attractive performance based incentives (options, bonuses) if he achieves certain hurdles.


----------



## tge oracle (14 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

With the first Cap raising out of the way I would like comment on an aspect of CSS's future not previously discussed or considered ( I think ! ).
This is not based on any factual information just purely speculation on my part.

In reference to my earlier posts on SBT fingerling numbers and desire to see Simplot ( John West ) increase their stake in CSS I would like you to consider this aspect of SBT propoagtaion that goes way beyond , IMO , the Sashimi market for farmed SBT. In fact I believe Simplot's investment in CSS has nothing to do with the Sashimi market.

Most investors are only focusing on the Sashimi potential for CSS' s SBT but I believe an equally profitable and considerably larger market lies in premium canned SBT, fresh SBT portions marketed to restaurants ( worldwide - as they do with YTK ) and other variations for fresh SBT which can be sold in fish markets, vacuum packed for long life etc.

Consider this, canned tuna is the most widely purchased and consumed seafood in the world, nearly every country consumes tinned tuna. The tuna used is mostly skipjack, longtail, alabacore etc. and is of an inferior quality when compared to SBT.
CSS will be able to grow SBT to 2-4kg in about 4-6months , which is ideal for tinned tuna. If they can propogate SBT on a scale achieved this season there wil be ample stock left over for Sashimi production , which will require 24-36mths.
They will be able to produce on scale and in a very short time frame which in real terms could make this more profitable than Sashimi. Tinned tuna is quite expensive when you consider the amount of tuna in a can, it is mostly water or oil etc.

I do believe there is an enormous market for premium tinned tuna products and that CSS has the potential to become a global giant in this sector.

Once again , I have a vested interest as I own CSS shares and will be participating in the Cap raising  so view my comments with an appropriate level of suspicion and caution.


----------



## kenny (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi tge,

Would the demographic that regularly buys canned tuna be interested in changing to SBT-in-a-can? Would it be worth the marketing to differentiate on a taste/quality/health angle and charge a premium? Canned tuna is popular as it is considered an inexpensive and convenient way to have seafood. Would most of the customers actually notice enough difference in taste to change buying habits?

Simplot would probably do better to hold off and await until commercialisation is more imminent before negotiating a supply contract or joint venture I think.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## tge oracle (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kenny said:


> Hi tge,
> 
> Would the demographic that regularly buys canned tuna be interested in changing to SBT-in-a-can? Would it be worth the marketing to differentiate on a taste/quality/health angle and charge a premium? Canned tuna is popular as it is considered an inexpensive and convenient way to have seafood. Would most of the customers actually notice enough difference in taste to change buying habits?
> 
> ...





I think there is a market for premium products in all food types. Just look in the local supermarket at the different prices for eggs, milk , meats, bread......the list goes on! They range from the basic product to premium with very significant price differentials. 

I believe Simplot would already have marketing ideas. My speculation goes way beyond just premium tinned tuna , I am also thinking about various packaged SBT portions which could be could be marketed in the frozen or fresh fish section of the supermarket / fish shops. Also, as a major supplier of SBT to restaurants.

I agree Simplot will wait until there is certainty with breeding before making a major move into CSS. But I suspect this may not be far off, particularly, if there is significant breeding succes in Nov/Dec.


----------



## truevalue (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I think there is a market for premium products in all food types. Just look in the local supermarket at the different prices for eggs, milk , meats, bread......the list goes on! They range from the basic product to premium with very significant price differentials.
> 
> I believe Simplot would already have marketing ideas. My speculation goes way beyond just premium tinned tuna , I am also thinking about various packaged SBT portions which could be could be marketed in the frozen or fresh fish section of the supermarket / fish shops. Also, as a major supplier of SBT to restaurants.
> 
> I agree Simplot will wait until there is certainty with breeding before making a major move into CSS. But I suspect this may not be far off, particularly, if there is significant breeding succes in Nov/Dec.




Interesting thoughts Oracle. That will be a different angle for the new CEO. I doubt the Stehr family would be thinking about putting their beloved tuna into cans. They would be thinking about them getting top grading at the Tokyo Fish Market.

I certainly think that when they get to a certain scale they will need new markets so as not to have too much impact on the farmgate prices they receive for their wholefish. I dont know if that level is 5000 tonnes? 10? 20?

They have to be a bit careful. This is Armani not Target and they are much better off selling 10,000 tonnes @ $10-$15/kg margin than 50,000 tonnes @ $2-3/kg


----------



## Basilica (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Consider this, canned tuna is the most widely purchased and consumed seafood in the world, nearly every country consumes tinned tuna.




Is that true or speculation Oracle?
Tin tuna is the morst boreing  seafood possible. it it really the most sold?



kenny said:


> Hi tge,
> 
> Would the demographic that regularly buys canned tuna be interested in changing to SBT-in-a-can? Would it be worth the marketing to differentiate on a taste/quality/health angle and charge a premium?




I do not think they will convert that market. Tap into the Red Salmon market is the only possibility, They already pay more than premuim fresh Salmon.



truevalue said:


> They have to be a bit careful. This is Armani not Target and they are much better off selling 10,000 tonnes @ $10-$15/kg margin than 50,000 tonnes @ $2-3/kg




If they did, they would do both. 10,000t to shashimi and rest to cans. But i would prefer the rest is dumped on woolworths, just so i can buy frest SBT for $10 / kg .


----------



## FI$H (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

even thinking about canned bluefin is blasphemy. if it is true that sbt can grow up to 10kg in 12 months than it should be possible to grow them to 6-8 kg over the summer months till june/july 2010. kingfish reach 5-6kg after 18 months and are sold with a 3$ per kg margin. with a 5-7$ margin 200 000 tuna of that size could create a profit of ~5 million $ in only one summer. by then the ytk division will contribute a healthy profit which should bring them in a far better position to raise the capital needed for 10 000t annual production. to me this looks like an attractive option.


----------



## kenny (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I would like to think that there would be surplus production to feed into any cannery venture. Possibly the ones the John West rejects so to speak 

The key market will always be the Japanese sashimi market for the premium margins. Fresh portions for the retail chains etc would be a good angle too but why are there not many similar products out there? Hopefully insufficient supply rather than logistic/cost concerns.

Have they considered the Omega-3 market from tuna oil I wonder too? Companies like Clover Corporation extract it for food boosting.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## FI$H (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I take from this article 

http://www.fnarena.com/index2.cfm?type=dsp_newsitem&n=4213142B-1871-E587-E13DAA02FD0A4316

that they're aiming for 25000 fingerlings in december which was previously defined as precommercial quantity.


----------



## truevalue (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I take from this article
> 
> http://www.fnarena.com/index2.cfm?type=dsp_newsitem&n=4213142B-1871-E587-E13DAA02FD0A4316
> 
> that they're aiming for 25000 fingerlings in december which was previously defined as precommercial quantity.




Yes that is RBS saying 25,000 not CSS. I dont think CSS are placing limits yet.

I have read the RBS report, I know the analyst covering the stock has changed recently and, quite frankly, the new guy has no clue.

Firstly he is basing his valuation (80c) upon CSS reaching a maximum target of SBT in 2015 of 5,000t. He is then assuming a "conservative" $5-7/kg margin rather than the company base case of $10. If he assumed 10,000t at $10/kg he would be getting a significantly higher valuation.

The problem with valuations is most analysts look at todays price and then work out what they need to assume to get to it. It is a little bit around the wrong way I think.

Also in todays market ask an analyst to value a company that needs a capital raising (for whatever reason) and he/she immediately puts a 30%+ discount on the base case valuation straight away. They will do exactly the opposite in a bull market. When CSS starts production and starts stringing some good results together these guys will be falling over themselves to upgrade thier asumptions and hence valuations.


----------



## FI$H (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm not all too worried about their arbitrary price targets. 

_This has resulted in an increase in the 12-month target price from 41c to 69c._

How can you narrow down a price target to single cents for stocks that happily fluctuate 5-10% on an average trading day?

truevalue, what's your opinion when they could become cash-flow positive in a best case scenario assuming 10 000t production and 10$ margin?


----------



## tge oracle (15 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sorry Fi$h, just back to my earlier post whilst Truevalue considers his response to your last.

At least we are getting some good discussion going whilst we wait for the next update from CSS.

I would like to briefly clarify my previous posts.

1.The Sashimi aspect of production should be the priority and any other marketing of SBT , as speculated by myself , would be in a scenario where CSS are producing overwhelming quantities of fingerlings.

2. John West is already , successfully, selling packaged CSS's YTK portions at supermarkets ( $ 39.99 / kg ).

3. Tinned tuna sounds a bit " out there " for SBT , but don't be surprised if there is a substantial market for ( packaged ) SBT, after all, prior to the Sashimi market that is precisely what the Stehrs and every other Tuna fisherman was doing with their SBT catch, presumably at a reasonable profit.

4. I'll do a quick comparison with YTK to illustrate my point. Truevalue will correct me if I am wrong.

YTK ( Packaged ) - Sells for $ 39.99 / kg ( retail ) wholesale price around $ 10/kg to CSS.  Takes 18-24months to reach marketable size ( 4-8kg ). Food , production and husbandry costs amount to approx. $ 7 / kg. Margin around $ 3 /kg.

SBT ( Packaged )  - Sells for $ 39.99 ( retail - at least ) wholesale price to CSS ( let's say same as YTK , realistically should be more ). Takes 4-6mths to reach a similar size as YTK. Food, production and husbandry costs amount to approx $ 2.50/kg. margin around $ 7-50/kg.

So what does this all mean , well to put it simply if they can sell SBT in the packaged form, like YTK, they can nearly triple the margin they are presently making with YTK. And that is where Simplot enters the scene. 
Only time will tell if I am correct.

Over to you Truevalue!


----------



## tge oracle (16 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The pre-planning for next seasons spawning is well under way with more broodstock transfers to be conducted on Monday. 

Refer attached link



http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?ContentId=13397


----------



## FI$H (16 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thank you for the link, oracle! Let's cross our fingers for another successful commando-like mission. Here's a link that you might find interesting:

http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?l=e&country=&monthyear=&day=&id=32288&ndb=1&df=0

It seem the UAE is interested in PBT production and have asked Kinki university for their help. I didn't know that Kinki's output is so small despite being a few years ahead in research:

_He also said the fish nursery he runs grows approximately 10,000 bluefin tuna, which they later sell, every three years.

“It takes three years for the eggs to grow to commercial size, which is between 13 to 60kg. Every year, we sell around 2,000 bluefin tuna,” the director said. 

Japan’s bluefin tuna consumption consists of 200,000 tonnes per year and costs about AED 110 (EUR 22) per kg. _


----------



## keskinu (16 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi all,

Not sure if everyone noticed the new vision of the fingerlings posted onto YouTube by the company a few days ago... looks like they're hungry little chaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwXGrJHGAX8

Happy investing all...


----------



## truevalue (18 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> truevalue, what's your opinion when they could become cash-flow positive in a best case scenario assuming 10 000t production and 10$ margin?




Hi Fish,

If you assume they get to 10,000 tonnes production by 2014 and 10,000 tonnes in sales by 2015 they will be cashflow positive in 2015. I am not assuming much growth beyond 2015 in that situation. If they decide to grow significantly beyond 10,000 tonnes then cashflows will lag profit until growth slows down and sales tonnages start to catch up to production tonnages. At that stage the business will generate massive amounts of cash. Given the margin the cashflows will turn positive much faster than we have seen in kingfish so far.

I am fairly relaxed about cashflows at this stage. We know the next 2 years will be a big negative number as they grow out their first and second vintages without any sales, but once sales start to kick in the business starts to support itself from a cash perspective relatively quickly. Effectively 5000 tonnes of sales can support 10,000 tonnes of production.

As Oracle says if you can reduce the time in the water and turn-over stock more quickly then your cashflow breakeven becomes much shorter. CSS needs to know their market and provide a product that is right.

I personally would hope that if packaged kingfish sells for $40/kg then SBT would at least sell for $50/kg with much of that extra margin going to CSS. Feed conversion ratios (FCR) for kingfish are quite a bit lower than SBT because kingfish waste very little (they are like piranhas). This means the feed cost/kg for SBT will be higher than kingfish. Of the $10/kg cost of producing a kg of SBT around $7 is feed cost. While of the $7/kg to produce a kg of kingfish the feed cost represents around $4.


----------



## truevalue (19 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A SBT article from the good living section of the SMH. Everyone interested in CSS should get down to Port Lincoln for a visit. Flights are regular and relatively inexpensive. You can dive with great whites as a side trip if you like as well. It is a great town.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertai...-makes-millions/2009/05/11/1241893894182.html


----------



## FI$H (19 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thank you for your sentiment truevalue. I wasn't sure if my expectations to become cash flow positive soon after production growth stops was justified. Improving the kingfish margin could significantly improve the cash-flow situation till then.

It seems the transfer of additional fish to the breeding stock was successful:

http://www.independentweekly.com.au...reed-endangered-tuna/1516593.aspx?storypage=1

Let's hope that they fall in love with their new flatmates and don't get tired of each other till October.


----------



## FI$H (19 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_He said the airlifted fish would, ``with a little bit of luck'', be spawning this year, and he hoped the spring spawning would produce a *minimum* of 25,000 fingerlings which could be taken back to the ocean and grown into saleable fish._

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25499994-5003680,00.html


----------



## truevalue (22 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Clean Seas also advised that its oldest Southern Bluefin Tuna (“SBT”) fingerlings were now over 55 days and greater than 15 cm in length. In addition, the SBT fingerlings were eating man made feeds
Hagen Stehr AO commented,
“Today’s equity raising allows us to step forward with confidence towards our goal of successfully producing commercial quantities of aquaculture bred SBT.
The support of our investors is not taken for granted. We will work hard to ensure it is wisely spent to create wealth for Clean Seas shareholders.
With the progress being made in growing out our first batch of SBT fingerlings at Arno Bay, I have no doubt that FY2010 promises to be a very exciting year.”

No mention of numbers again. Hopefully we get a full update in the next week or so.

Looks like Fi$h's scenario of investors taking the profit on entitlements is coming true. I'm sure the underwriters will be keen to see a decent buffer between the entitlement price and the share price as June 12 draws near.


----------



## FI$H (22 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

What's the point of realizing 2.5c of profit per share on your small entitlement if it decreases the value of your total holding by 30%?


----------



## keskinu (29 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Can I ask what people's thoughts are on the stock trading below the price being offered on the rights issue? Obviously there is little to no motivation for holders of the stock to participate in the offer if the stock is trading around 0.55. 

I have held CSS for a little under a year, and it's disappointing to see there is nothing much that can be done to avoid the dilution caused by the recent institutional placement. I'm no expert, but could not the rights issue have been offered at 0.55 *or* a price based on a discount to the VWAP over a trading week? I think they would have attracted many more existing holders this way. 

I do believe in the long term prospects of this company, and will continue to hold. I guess I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on the short/mid term stock price action caused by the placement.


----------



## truevalue (29 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



keskinu said:


> Can I ask what people's thoughts are on the stock trading below the price being offered on the rights issue? Obviously there is little to no motivation for holders of the stock to participate in the offer if the stock is trading around 0.55.
> 
> I have held CSS for a little under a year, and it's disappointing to see there is nothing much that can be done to avoid the dilution caused by the recent institutional placement. I'm no expert, but could not the rights issue have been offered at 0.55 *or* a price based on a discount to the VWAP over a trading week? I think they would have attracted many more existing holders this way.
> 
> I do believe in the long term prospects of this company, and will continue to hold. I guess I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on the short/mid term stock price action caused by the placement.




Good question Keskinu. The trouble with the second option is that shareholders have an incentive to push the price down to as low level as possible to get the lowest price in the issue. Under those circumstances the institutional offer would not have been possible.

My concern is that the sub-underwriters (Lonsec have off loaded their underwriting exposure to sub-underwriters) of the offer are holding the price down to make the rights issue unattractive to shareholders thereby ensuring they get more stock at 55c. If this is the case then the sub-underwriters get all the shares at 55c and the stock jumps back up to 70 or 80c after the deadline on June 12, taking the existing shareholders profit with it.


----------



## FI$H (29 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hopefully, it will be more difficult to pull off these games the closer we get to production and sales. 
Why haven't we received an update today?


----------



## tge oracle (30 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The problem CSS has had for the past 12-18months is " uncertainty" .
Investors are unsure about the scope of success with SBT propogation and progress with YTK sales.
This uncertainty will prevail until they update the market with a detailed comprehensive report on the entire business, including the outlook.
CSS have advised the market that they will report by the end of May. They must deliver on this promise. I have not been satisfied with various snippets of information, some material in my view, being released to the media but not the market.
It was a mistake, in my view, not to include a detailed update in accompaniment with the Cap raising notice.

As for the share valuation shennanigans, the present action is typified by many other raisings over the past year or so, it's not perculiar to CSS.
If you are a long term holder it really doesn't matter what traders, brokers, underwriters or anybody else for that matter, are doing. 
It's where CSS will be next year and in the years ahead that concern me i.e. " the big picture".

Presently, I am planning is to participate in the Cap raising and shortfall facility in full. This is subject to a satisfactory update from CSS prior to the closing date. There are many other Cap raisings on the calendar at the moment and I will divert more funds to those if I am not satisfied with CSS's update.


----------



## Basilica (30 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> My concern is that the sub-underwriters (Lonsec have off loaded their underwriting exposure to sub-underwriters) of the offer are holding the price down to make the rights issue unattractive to shareholders thereby ensuring they get more stock at 55c. If this is the case then the sub-underwriters get all the shares at 55c and the stock jumps back up to 70 or 80c after the deadline on June 12, taking the existing shareholders profit with it.




How would the Sub-Underwritters influence the share price Truvalue?
Do they have enough shares to sell already?
Were the underwriters only underwritting the instution part of the cap?
And was it fully subcribed so do they still buy the shares?




tge oracle said:


> The problem CSS has had for the past 12-18months is " uncertainty" . Investors are unsure about the scope of success with SBT propogation and progress with YTK sales.
> 
> Presently, I am planning is to participate in the Cap raising and shortfall facility in full. This is subject to a satisfactory update from CSS prior to the closing date.




The uncertainty is an issue Oracle but should reduce in time.

How relevant is price in your decision to participate fully in the Cap raising?
On Friday you could have bought shares for 54c (no idea how many though) Why wait for the Cap if Price then is 1c cheaper? 

Can or will CSS lower the offer price?


----------



## Basilica (30 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

one more Q is have the institutions got thier shares yet?
Can they be the recent sellers to make a quick profit?
If they are selling existing holding at a higher price they paid for the new holding they may end up with same amount of shares at a lower purchase price.


----------



## tge oracle (30 May 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Basilica,

The issue price is relevant and has to be " fair value ".  By my own research and methodology I am comfortable with a valuation around the current levels for CSS. Any decision to purchase more securities will be based on the current status of CSS in addition to their outlook. If I believe the value of CSS should be re-rated , then I will participate fully in the offer and shortfall facility. I must stress, however, that any intention to purchase additional securities will be very dependant on my impression of the market update. 

In answer to your second question, I won't be purchasing any additional securities without the informatiom previously discussed, no matter what the price. CSS have to update their current status and detail their plan for the furure for me to invest further. 
I am a long term investor and, generally, won't quibble over a few cents off an offer price. Brokerage fees need to be taken into account and the applicable volume of securities on offer in the share entitlement before purchasing on market.

It is unlikely they will lower the offer price as the placement has been fully subscribed @ 55c and the retail offer is fully underwritten by Lonsec.

CSS investors - don't construe my intentions as a recommnedation to invest or subscrbe ( if you already hold ) for additional securities. 
Do your own research or consult a financial adviser.


----------



## FI$H (3 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Did you notice that more than 400K stocks were traded today? This was the highest volume we've seen since record date. There seems to be an unlimited supply of stocks.


----------



## Ruincity (3 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Fish - I noticed...

That is approximately 226k worth of shares around the .55c mark. 
At that rate we will need to see at a bare minimum 13mil (Placement value) / 226k equals another ~56 trading days before we turn over the amount of shares that have been sold due to the placement. 

Clearly many that received the capital at 55c won't be keen to sell at break even. 
Some may be getting scared and want to lighten their load though...

The volume today is interesting..


----------



## sashimi (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Does anybody know the current price of Port Lincoln Tuna on the wholesale market in Japan.
and the wholesale price of Med. bluefin tuna and Mexican bluefin tuna


----------



## tge oracle (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, we are nearly at the end of the week and the silence is deafening from CSS. With a hoilday shortened week, next week, the closing date is fast approaching.

I am very disappoinetd that CSS haven't updated the market , as they had promised , by the end of May. It is very unusual for a company to initiate a Cap Raising without a detailed update on the current status of the business and outllook. It makes sense to do so if you want to encourage investors to participate, unless of course, there is bad news ahead. I am not suggesting this is the case, but if there is no update prior to closing I will not be participating. They have been leaking selected news to the media but no official ASX update, don't know how this sits with the ASX 
( re - listing rule 3.1 ). 
There are too many other opportunities in the market at present and I am not prepared to gamble on CSS without information on what has been achieved so far and how things look ahead. I am, however,  satisfied with the current value of CSS without this information. If the value falls I am less exposed, if it rises , I still have my existing investment.
My decision is all about the risk profiling of CSS. I am very happy with the product and potential but I am worried about the uncertainty and failure to report as promised and CSS are adding to this uncertainty.


The update may come prior to cloisng, in which case, I will review my present position. 

Any other views on this ?


----------



## truevalue (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have Heard Hagen is in Oslo at a conference and they are waiting for him to return before making an announcement. 

Early next week I expect an announcement. The company is doing an institutional roadshow next week so it makes sense to release a presentation then.

Fingerlings are >70days old and 20 cm. I have no idea on #s though.


----------



## tge oracle (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I have Heard Hagen is in Oslo at a conference and they are waiting for him to return before making an announcement.
> 
> Early next week I expect an announcement. The company is doing an institutional roadshow next week so it makes sense to release a presentation then.
> 
> Fingerlings are >70days old and 20 cm. I have no idea on #s though.






OK, Tks Truevalue, I will reserve judgement until next week. 

It's a pity they couldn't have planned things a little better to allow investors to digest the update. Better late than never, I guess.


----------



## truevalue (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They really should have hit this on the head by now. Just look at the negative coments appearing in this thread, I imagine they are representative of the feelings of many of the shareholders that they hope are going to write them a cheque in the next 7 days.

I am very suspicious of some serious price manipulation going on. I know it makes no difference to the company longer term, but if the stock goes to 80c the week after the deadline how are you going to feel then Oracle that you didn't take up your rights?


----------



## truevalue (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Investor update is now up.

I don't see much new information. All seems to be on track as previously advised. No bad news which may have been expected by some given recent price movements.

Fingerlings are now Juveniles. They obviously don't think the numbers are as important as the fact that they have some still alive and feeding on pellets. They are still confident of having commercial volumes in December.


----------



## tge oracle (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Investor update is now up.
> 
> I don't see much new information. All seems to be on track as previously advised. No bad news which may have been expected by some given recent price movements.
> 
> Fingerlings are now Juveniles. They obviously don't think the numbers are as important as the fact that they have some still alive and feeding on pellets. They are still confident of having commercial volumes in December.




Yes, I am satisfied that all appears to be on track with no adverse commentary in the update.
I would have liked more detail on fingerlings produced but I guess we will have to settle for their earlier advice of a " modest" number ( probably a few hundred?). 

The important aspects in this update , for me , are:

1. SBT fingerling growth rate appears to be impressive.
2. SBT fingerlings are feeding on man made dietry mixes.
3. No adverse news on the recently transferred broodstock. I guess they are settling in well in preparation for next summers spawning.
4. The YTK business is still projected to be cash flow positive in FY 2010.
5. They are in confidential discussions with potential partners. I would hope that Simplot may be one of them.
6. The Cap Raising will substantially reduce their debt / equity ratio.

The announcement has addressed the uncertainty issues I had and I will  now commit to the entitlement and over subscription offer as I am satisfied with the growth potential for CSS.


----------



## FI$H (5 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> 2. SBT fingerlings are feeding on man made dietry mixes.




I was very excited to hear this because I expected them to be very picky eaters who insist on live-feed. 80g after two months. Can they put on the remaining 9920 in ten?


----------



## tge oracle (6 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> I was very excited to hear this because I expected them to be very picky eaters who insist on live-feed. 80g after two months. Can they put on the remaining 9920 in ten?




I believe they will Fi$h, the growth rate of Tuna is exponential. In fact, CSS may be able to discover a diet mix that exceeds the growth rate of wild Tuna, I guess this is why they are trialling different feed types.


----------



## FI$H (10 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thank you for your sentiment, Oracle. I thought the 10kg after one year target was based on Kinki university's experience. 
Who are the Norwegian industry leaders Hagen met up in Oslo? Are they salmon producers or Mediterranean tuna ranchers? 
Is this meeting the reason for the recent upwards trend? I share the feeling others have expressed that some price manipulation is going on intending to keep us out and decided to participate in the cap raising.

The movie "End of the line" has brought attention to global overfishing. I haven't seen the movie but bluefin is showcased as an endangered species that should be avoided by consumers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX4v8wyOcns). Also, fish farming is criticized because of its fish meal requirements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B77bs2aploI). 
In my opinion CSS business is environmentally sound and hope that more awareness for the precarious situation of bluefin will help CSS to find more investors who believe in sustainable aquaculture. On the other end I fear that bluefin could be stigmatized as a bad product per se even if doesn't make sense. What are your thoughts?


----------



## truevalue (10 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Thank you for your sentiment, Oracle. I thought the 10kg after one year target was based on Kinki university's experience.
> Who are the Norwegian industry leaders Hagen met up in Oslo? Are they salmon producers or Mediterranean tuna ranchers?
> Is this meeting the reason for the recent upwards trend? I share the feeling others have expressed that some price manipulation is going on intending to keep us out and decided to participate in the cap raising.
> 
> ...




My view is the Japanese are less concerned about endangered species and tend to demand the product that they want regardless.

I know CSS are marketing themselves as a saviour to the SBT, with environmental and sustainability credentials.


----------



## Gillie (10 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Been to Port Lincoln to see the operation, the cultivation of the young tuna is very impressive to say the least.

This company has raised alot of intense interest through the Japanese (fish) markets over the last six to twelve months as the Japanese believe it may be a way of supporting greater demand for the tuna without compromising quality.


----------



## tge oracle (10 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> Thank you for your sentiment, Oracle. I thought the 10kg after one year target was based on Kinki university's experience.
> Who are the Norwegian industry leaders Hagen met up in Oslo? Are they salmon producers or Mediterranean tuna ranchers?
> Is this meeting the reason for the recent upwards trend? I share the feeling others have expressed that some price manipulation is going on intending to keep us out and decided to participate in the cap raising.
> 
> ...




Fi$h,

I am not sure who Hagen met, but I do know that the Norwegians are world leaders in the aquaculture industry and any partnership with them would be a positive for CSS.

I suspect investors are seeing value in CSS , that is why it is appreciating in price levels.

I wouldn't be too worried about the negative impacts of fish meal etc, these are substantially outweighed by the environmental and sustainability aspect of aquaculture, particularly in the case of SBT which is an endangered species.
Far from being stigmatized, I believe aquaculture bred SBT will continue to gain support from all quarters i.e. environmentalists, goverments, marine biologists, industry participants etc. I do see a sustainable and productive future for SBTwhich is presently in the very first stages of infancy.


----------



## tge oracle (13 June 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Here's a new article from the aquaculture website. All seems to be well on track for commercial propogation towards the end of this year.

http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?ContentId=13551


----------



## truevalue (8 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

From Bloomberg this morning. Good global coverage for CSS.

Part 1

Breeding Breakthrough Helps Sushi Baron Create Sustainable Tuna
2009-07-06 21:00:00.0 GMT


By Stuart Biggs and Madelene Pearson
     July 7 (Bloomberg) -- Hagen Stehr was at home in Adelaide, Australia, on March 12 when his company’s chief scientist called with news that their bet of about $48 million on the breeding of southern bluefin tuna in captivity -- a feat never accomplished before -- might finally pay off.
     “Big fella, you better come back,” scientist Morten Deichmann said to the 6-foot-1-inch Stehr.
     Stehr, chairman of Port Lincoln, Australia-based Clean Seas Tuna Ltd., rushed more than 500 kilometers (311 miles) to his company’s fish hatchery outside Arno Bay in southern Australia.
With tears in his eyes, he pushed his Toyota Land Cruiser to its top speed of 180 kilometers an hour as he raced to see the fertilized eggs for himself. As the owner of a fishing fleet during the past four decades, Stehr had helped empty the seas of the bluefin tuna used in sushi restaurants from New York to Tokyo. Now, at age 67, he believed he was on the verge of saving the tuna -- and the industry that made him rich -- from the threat of extinction.
     “Everyone thought I was a bloody lunatic,” says the suntanned Stehr, in jeans and a checked shirt from the iconic line of boots and outdoor clothing named for R.M. Williams, an Australian bushman. “Nobody in the world had ever done this.
We’ve created a sustainable fishing industry for years ahead.”
     The majestic bluefin, a metallic-blue-and-silver fish, is prized by sushi lovers in Japan, the U.S. and Europe for the rich taste and creamy texture of its meat. In their zeal to feed those palates, fishermen have almost wiped out the two species of bluefin -- northern and southern -- while also threatening the yellowfin and bigeye tuna.

                      Nothing Left to Fish

     The eastern Atlantic bluefin, a northern variety found in the Mediterranean Sea, will probably vanish within 10 years, says a study by marine scientist Brian MacKenzie at the National Institute of Aquatic Resources in Charlottenlund, Denmark.
     “In a few years, there’ll be nothing left for us to fish,”
says Atsushi Sasaki, a Japanese fisherman who’s caught bluefin for 20 years. “The collapse of bluefin is just around the corner.”
     The Japanese -- the biggest consumers of bluefin -- devour 80 percent of the world’s catch. The fish has been served at restaurants such as Nobu, a chain of at least 18 high-end Japanese eateries. The menu at Nobu London, however, warns that bluefin is a threatened species and asks patrons to order an alternative dish.

                          Failed Quotas

     This is more than another fish story. The saga of the bluefin, a creature that can swim 45,000 miles in 17 months to spawn and feed, shows the difficulties in managing resources across borders -- a sign of the challenges ahead as countries confront the more intractable problems of environmental degradation and global warming. At the same time, Stehr’s indoor-breeding breakthrough points to the role technology may play in addressing these broader resource issues.
     Since the early 1980s, countries working through the United Nations have tried -- and failed -- to set catch quotas tough enough to protect bluefin and other tuna from overfishing.
     “Where you have politicians arguing for a share of a quota, that quota will inevitably be inflated,” says Callum Roberts, a marine conservation biologist at the University of York in England. “That kind of decision making guarantees the collapse of a population.”
     Stehr and his scientists now must find a way to grow fertilized hatchery eggs into adult tuna. One challenge: The bluefin, a predator, eats its young.

                          $20,000 Tuna

     “If Hagen Stehr can solve the issues surrounding breeding predacious fish, he’ll have a sustainable product that will last forever,” says Barbara Block, a professor of marine science at Stanford University in California. “The future lies somewhere in what they’re doing.”
     Clean Seas, which has raised about $58 million since its initial public offering in December 2005, plans to build more indoor tanks to protect and grow young fingerlings before they’re put into the ocean. Stehr aims to produce at least 250,000 bluefin by 2015 -- a number that would almost equal the total bluefin catch of Australia’s fishermen in a single year.
     As prices soar for bluefin, which sell for as much as $20,000 a fish at Tsukiji, the world’s largest fish market in Tokyo, Stehr stands to add to his fortune. He’s worth about $135 million, according to the 2009 annual Australian rich list by BRW magazine, a business publication owned by Sydney-based Fairfax Media Ltd.  “It’s about more than making money,” Stehr says. “I would like to leave a legacy to the world with bluefin.”

                            Sky Diver

     Stehr, who’s invested millions of his own money in the breeding of southern bluefin, has always been a risk taker. The former owner of a sky-diving school, he once jumped out of an airplane attached to a parachute packed into a shoe box that he held tucked under his arm.
     “It’s more gung-ho-like,” says Stehr, who has a dragon figure tattooed on his forearm. “You make an exit out of the airplane door; you throw the shoe box in the air and pray to God that the chute comes out.”
     Since the 1970s, Stehr has helped build a tuna industry that was worth about $7.2 billion globally in 2006. The fishermen have thrived on the high seas, particularly in the Mediterranean, where they have exceeded quotas established by regulators.

                        Greenpeace Protest

     The International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas, the UN body that controls the Mediterranean region, set the limit for eastern Atlantic bluefin between 32,000 metric tons and 29,500 metric tons from 1999 to 2007.
During that period, even as ICCAT’s own scientists pushed unsuccessfully for lower quotas, fishermen blew past the limits.
They netted twice as much bluefin tuna as permitted, or up to 60,000 tons a year, according to ICCAT data.
     In November 2008, ICCAT, composed of agricultural officials from 46 nations, including France, Spain, Italy and Japan, held a meeting in Morocco to set stricter quotas. As the meeting began, activists from the environmental group Greenpeace International dumped 5 tons of bluefin tuna heads in front of France’s Agriculture Ministry building in Paris under a banner reading “Bluefin Tuna Massacre.” The pile of gray-blue heads, each about the size of a basketball, spilled off the sidewalk into the street.

     Greenpeace activists and several scientists were calling for ICCAT to temporarily ban bluefin fishing.
     “If the situation doesn’t improve, ICCAT will take the blame for managing the collapse of one of the most important and profitable fisheries of our time,” says Sebastian Losada, oceans campaigner for Greenpeace in Spain.

                         Merchant Marine

     Regulators did lower annual quotas to 18,500 tons of bluefin by 2010 and for the first time required that an ICCAT observer be onboard the larger vessels that use purse seines -- crane-operated nets that can capture as much as 100 tons of fish in a day.
     “If people play by the rules, we’ll still have a fishing season next year,” says Nathalie Charbonneau, a spokeswoman for the European Commission, whose ICCAT members account for 66 percent of the bluefin quota.
     Stehr began fishing for tuna in 1961 after he arrived in Australia with little money and no work. A native of Germany, he left home at the age of 12 to become a cadet with the merchant marines and later served as a seaman on cargo ships, bouncing from job to job. When his freighter docked at Port Lincoln, Stehr got off the vessel and never returned.

                            Crazy Days

     After a decade of catching tuna for other operators, he used money he earned diving for abalone to start his own fishing outfit. By the 1980s, the entrepreneur owned several companies that he brought together under the Stehr Group. Today, it boasts a fleet of 21 vessels that range from 30 feet to 100 feet long.
     Stehr compares the heyday of bluefin fishing in the Great Australian Bight off the country’s southern coast to the Battle of Britain during World War II, when waves of German Luftwaffe bombers attacked England. Rival fishing companies flew as many as 12 planes at a time from Port Lincoln to spot schools of fish.
     “Those days were crazy,” says Stehr. “It was catch as much as you can, kill as many fish in the shortest possible period of time, make a lot of money, then have the rest of the year off.
We raped the industry quite badly.”
     While Stehr was on his way to catching tens of thousands of tons of southern bluefin in his fishing career, Australia, Japan and New Zealand moved to slow the destruction. The governments began lowering their quotas for the fish in 1984, dropping them to a total of about 14,000 tons per year a decade later.


----------



## truevalue (8 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Part 2

                          Fish Farming

     The Australian government stood out for cracking down on quota violators, and in 2006 it accused Japan of exceeding its bluefin limit by a total of about 178,000 tons from 1985 to 2005. Japan acknowledged that some overfishing took place.
     “You can’t even catch three too many or you end up a criminal,” Stehr says. “We all had our backs against the wall.
Most of us were virtually bankrupt.”
     To keep his business afloat in the early 1990s, Stehr helped start ocean-based fish farming -- now a booming industry that has exacerbated the reduction of bluefin. Before quotas, fishermen chased the largest tuna because those earned the most profit at market. As restrictions cut into Stehr’s catch, he kept more of the younger tuna, which weighed less, and transferred them to cages at sea.
     “We towed large cages in from 300, 400 miles out in the Great Australian Bight all the way to Port Lincoln,” Stehr says.
     After feeding tuna in 20 cages for up to 8 months -- enlarging them to weights that surpass his annual 400-ton catch limit -- Stehr sells them to Japan, Europe and the U.S.

                        Mediterranean Boom

     About 70 such farms dot the coasts of Spain, Italy, Croatia and Turkey -- turning the Mediterranean region into a tuna pantry for Japan. The farms have a total capacity of 57,582 tons, or about three times the total ICCAT quota for the area this year.
     They hold fish caught in the spring, which is the prime fishing season in the Mediterranean, until the winter, when demand peaks in Japan.
     “In the beginning, ranching was a sustainable business that made sense; it really controlled the trade flux in bluefin,”
says Roberto Mielgo Bregazzi, a Spaniard who developed the first farms in the Mediterranean. “Then the business matured and resulted in a mushrooming of tuna ranches. In 15 years, we have almost wiped out the entire stock, and I’m very pessimistic we can save it.”

                          Breeding Tuna

     He quit the industry in 2003 and started ATRT Tuna-Ranching Intelligence Unit to expose abuses in the trade.
     As wild tuna became scarcer, Stehr started Clean Seas in 2000 with the idea of breeding the fish. The hatchery is set on 700 hectares (1,730 acres) surrounded by sheep ranches and grain farms just outside Arno Bay. The concrete breeding tank -- about

25 meters in diameter and 7 meters deep -- is housed in a plain, white shed that’s monitored with security cameras.
     “We are quite strict who we let into our hatchery,” Stehr says.
     To get the bluefin to breed, scientists at Clean Seas designed the tank to simulate conditions in the ocean. Using overhead lights to suggest the sun and moon, saltwater piped in from the ocean, artificial currents and temperature controls, the scientists have tried to re-create the experience of a spawning journey for the fish.

                        Helicopter Airlift

     Stehr hired a former Vietnam War helicopter pilot to airlift 400-pound (180-kilogram) adult tuna one by one from the sea to the tank. The fish were pacified, suspended beneath the helicopter, flown over the top of the shed, which has a removable roof, and lowered into the tank. Scientists were concerned that the effects of stress on the tuna from what Stehr called a “military-style operation” might prevent them from spawning.
     “It’s like playing cricket with hand grenades,” Stehr says.
“If something goes wrong, it costs you mega ¬dollars.”
     Miles Wise, one of about 20 scientists who live at the hatchery for months at a time, watches over the feeding and health of the tuna via a flat-screen monitor. Once a week, he dons a wet suit and enters the tank to get a closer look at the tuna, a fish that will die if it stops swimming.
     “They are a difficult species to work with, so it’s been very trying over the last couple of years,” Wise says.
     The fish entered the tank in 2006, and for three years the females didn’t produce eggs although the males were making sperm. Stehr’s scientists changed almost every variable, including water temperature and the age of the males.

                        Hormone Injections

     Hormone injections, given to females using spearguns, were a key in finally getting the tuna to spawn, says Abigail Elizur, a professor at the University of Sunshine Coast in Queensland, Australia, who works with Clean Seas. In March, the females began to lay eggs, setting off a mating ritual that lasted for more than one month. On some days, the tuna generated as many as
2 million fertilized eggs.
     “Every time you crack a new species, it’s always very exciting,” says Deichmann, the chief scientist who also helped Stehr breed kingfish, a type of amberjack popular for making sushi in Japan. “To everybody that is working in marine hatchery, tuna is the crown. It is probably the most significant thing I have done.”
     In 2002, Kinki University’s fisheries laboratory in southern Japan first bred northern bluefin in the ocean under the stewardship of marine scientist Yoshifumi Sawada. The problem with ocean breeding is that the tuna don’t consistently produce fertilized eggs, and only 2 percent of them survive to become juveniles due to cannibalism and dietary issues. Sawada says his project is a long way from achieving large-scale commercial production.

                      Preventing Cannibalism

     The university sold 5,000 fingerlings last year to commercial farms, equal to only 2.5 percent of the 200,000 young tuna caught by Japanese fishing companies for farming annually.
     “It’s not enough,” Sawada says.
     Stehr may have more success in mass-producing tuna. At Clean Seas, the use of hormones may spur females to spawn more consistently, says Elizur. And scientists can prevent cannibalism by removing the eggs, which float to the surface of the water, from the tanks.
     “We have over 50 million fertilized eggs and larvae,” Stehr says. “We have so many we can hold the equivalent of 28 years of quotas for wild southern bluefin in the palm of one hand.”
     Stehr still must overcome other obstacles to growing tuna into adults. The fish used to feed captive tuna -- primarily mackerel and sardines -- are also in short supply in many parts of the world. In attempting to save tuna, breeders have to find a way to avoid wiping out the feeder fish. Clean Seas is developing wheat-based pellets to feed its tuna.

                          General Patton

     “Within five years, they’ll be breeding thousands of young tuna,” says Stanford’s Block, who’s served as an unpaid adviser to Clean Seas. “We still have to solve the feed issue, and that’s the huge worry out there.”
     In looking for inspiration during the tough years when he couldn’t get his tuna to spawn, Stehr would open a history book about his hero, George Patton, the four-star U.S. general who helped repel the German offensive at the Battle of the Bulge during World War II.
     “When I feel kind of low, I read General Patton,” says Stehr, who has the warrior’s picture on his office wall.
     If Stehr’s breeding experiment bears fruit, it will change his place in history -- from one of the fishermen who endangered the bluefin to the entrepreneur who helped save it.


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (9 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In addition to above bloomberg story which was run in "the age" in Melbourne on Tuesday, there was another follow-up story in todays age celebrating 100 days of life for the propogated tuna, story carried a photo of our little friends which are now looking like mini Tuna & not creatures from the black lagoon.  Story quoted previous best result of keeping the tuna alive at approx 25 days, so 100 days is quite an achievment.  Now the final big hurdle...turning this into a commercial reality.  You would think this should only be a matter of time. 
(wont let me post the link so just go to "the age" website & you'll find it.)


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## nizora (15 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



BlueHshoeLvs CSS said:


> In addition to above bloomberg story which was run in "the age" in Melbourne on Tuesday, there was another follow-up story in todays age celebrating 100 days of life for the propogated tuna, story carried a photo of our little friends which are now looking like mini Tuna & not creatures from the black lagoon.  Story quoted previous best result of keeping the tuna alive at approx 25 days, so 100 days is quite an achievment.  Now the final big hurdle...turning this into a commercial reality.  You would think this should only be a matter of time.
> (wont let me post the link so just go to "the age" website & you'll find it.)




Tuna breeding shows 'billion-dollar' promiseBridie Smith
July 9, 2009 
 Breeding the southern bluefin tuna in captivity has long been considered the holy grail for the Australian tuna industry.

The tuna has almost been wiped out by overfishing, and a sustainable fishery seemed little more than an ambitious dream. But this week at a South Australian hatchery, a young fish of 25 centimetres reached a milestone birthday: 100 days, more than five times what captive breeders have been able to achieve previously.

Clean Seas chairman Hagen Stehr said: "Young tuna has never been held that long before onshore."

The project, involving the Australian Seafood Co-operative Research Centre, the Fisheries Research Development Corporation and the South Australian Research and Development Institute, aims to produce 250,000 bluefin at the hatchery outside Arno Bay on the Eyre Peninsula by 2015. "There's a commercial industry in the making of immense proportion," Mr Stehr said. "In years to come, it will be a billion-dollar industry."

Worldwide demand for the southern bluefin tuna is rising. Japan takes about 80 per cent of the catch. The young fish were spawned in April after adult females were given hormone injections. They will be kept in a temperature-controlled hatchery over winter.


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## truevalue (16 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> "There's a commercial industry in the making of immense proportion," Mr Stehr said. "In years to come, it will be a billion-dollar industry."
> 
> .




A billion dollar industry? Even I am not that bullish. Will be interested to hear where this came from. 

$1 billion over 4 years perhaps? Ill still take it!


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## FI$H (16 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> A billion dollar industry? Even I am not that bullish. Will be interested to hear where this came from.
> 
> $1 billion over 4 years perhaps? Ill still take it!




He said similar things in the past. billion dollar industry means annual production of ~50 000t per year given a wholesale price of 20$. I'm not sure if we'll get there quick but should 10 000t annual production stabilize and translate to 100 million $ profit p.a. then the market cap should be >1 billion. 

When will they announce the quarterly results?


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## tge oracle (17 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> He said similar things in the past. billion dollar industry means annual production of ~50 000t per year given a wholesale price of 20$. I'm not sure if we'll get there quick but should 10 000t annual production stabilize and translate to 100 million $ profit p.a. then the market cap should be >1 billion.
> 
> When will they announce the quarterly results?




Truevalue /Fish,

Yes, I think Hagen is getting a little ahead of himself, although I must agree, I do see the potential for CSS in becoming a billion dollar industry, in fact, it may well exceed this value if the product is well managed, diverse in range and production scale is commensurate with global demand, which I beleive will be significant.
The one factor I see preventing this scenario is competition. CSS have substantial first mover advantage, others will see the potential and ramp up their efforts to achieve breeding success to compete for market share.


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## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (17 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Truevalue /Fish,
> 
> Yes, I think Hagen is getting a little ahead of himself, although I must agree, I do see the potential for CSS in becoming a billion dollar industry, in fact, it may well exceed this value if the product is well managed, diverse in range and production scale is commensurate with global demand, which I beleive will be significant.
> The one factor I see preventing this scenario is competition. CSS have substantial first mover advantage, others will see the potential and ramp up their efforts to achieve breeding success to compete for market share.





Oracle, 

I think the jump they have on others is substantial and will give CSS at least a 5 year head-start on any competition.  A new entrant will encounter similar growing pains of CSS (although no doubt the trailblazer saves those following a lot of headaches through Inadvertently revealing short-cuts, even if they don't disclose all of their important secrets) The mere fact that there is 18month - 2 year grow out period before getting product to market and that is AFTER jumping the huge hurdle of finding the magic formula of closing the life-cycle should give CSS a massive head-start. 

I think now that CSS have achieved what appears to be a good formula that commercialising it is an achievable reality.  Of course there maybe hiccups along the way, i.e. 1st attempt at commercial quantities later this year is not successful / issues with feed etc are more likely to be inconveniences and not show-stoppers!

My biggest concern is actually how the fish would be recieved in the all important Japanese market.  In all the calculations i have seen the ultimate price achievable at market has been based on the wild-catch price.  The Japanes are notoriously fickle about food and am fearful that there may be some type of back-lash to a "farmed tuna".  Would the taste be different? especially if wheat based pallets are used as opposed to pilchards.  Would the CSS bred Tuna need to be labelled as "farmed tuna" to the Japanese consumers? and therfore would the "farmed tuna" return a discount in price to wild catch tuna?

My thoughts to the above is that the introduction of the product will need to be managed very very carefully and marketed exactly right.  You would not want a GM type scare compaign to gain traction.  I realise that there would be other farmed species going into Japan with good level of acceptance, but we are talking about a high-end sashimi product here.  Of course it is effectively a commodity and will be subject to supply and demand, if supply is short buyers/consumers will be less likely to be picky but if supply of "wild catch" tuna is plentiful then the differentiations in the product may start to occur.      

I would be interested to hear the thoughts of oracle, turevalue, f$sh etc on this as it appears you guys have a good knowledge of seafood farming and it's general acceptance.


----------



## truevalue (17 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

BHLCSS i agree that the farmed v wild catch is a risk and in this species there are no true farmed products in the market. Hagen is getting the $20/kg price on his "ranched" tuna which has been sitting in a sea cage being fed pellets for 6 months however and it has been well recieved. I understand the Kinki bred tuna commands premium prices despite its farmed status.

On the competition front, the real head start CSS has is in the brood stock. It took 8-10 years in captivity for those fish to become sexually mature. There just arent any mature fish around that can be used as broodstock for a competitor. All the tuna caught in the wild nowdays are juvenile fish that are 7-10 years from sexual maturity. This is an example of how far sighted and patient Hagen has been since he put those tuna aside a decade ago, fed them, nutured them and then finally flew them into the onshore tank to breed.


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## tge oracle (17 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

BHLCSS,

I agree with Truevalue's sentiment, acceptance of farmed SBT will not be an issue. I am a regular traveller to Japan and from my experience Japanese consumers are very accepting of farmed product , provided quality is maintained. 
You only need to look at the success of Hiramasa ( sashimi ) kingfish to understand the acceptance and potential of farmed product.
The whole issue of farmed vs wild really comes down to husbandry. The farmed stock must be well kept, nourished/fed and handled. Provided these important processes are complied with the end result is a high quality farmed product.

Truelvalue has a point re-broodstock, however, there is plentiful wild broodstock available if you know where to look and have the authority to catch them ( quota's / permits etc. ). As for the logistics of transporting wild catch broodstock to your SBT/NBT facility, well, that's where the real problem lies!  
Fortunately, they can only be caught in very remote locations.

I think future competition may come from inducing younger broodstck to breed. There would appear to be significant advances in artificial insemination / spermiation of SBT / NBT.

Either way, CSS is in the box seat. They will have established SBT production on a commercial scale and secured important customers / markets before competitors can get off the ground.


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## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (20 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> BHLCSS,
> 
> I agree with Truevalue's sentiment, acceptance of farmed SBT will not be an issue. I am a regular traveller to Japan and from my experience Japanese consumers are very accepting of farmed product , provided quality is maintained.
> You only need to look at the success of Hiramasa ( sashimi ) kingfish to understand the acceptance and potential of farmed product.
> ...




T'Value / Oracle,

Thanks for your insights, no doubt with your different views on brood-stock that competition will find a way to succeed, fingers crossed that is long way off.  Your feed-back on Japanese acceptance of farmed product is very reassuring.

So now it's just a matter of time right......?!


----------



## FI$H (20 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



BlueHshoeLvs CSS said:


> T'Value / Oracle,
> 
> 
> So now it's just a matter of time right......?!




time, money, know-how and luck is probably all it takes...



A lot will depend on the next pre-commercial run, I guess. But keep in mind that the YTK business will provide significant amount of capital in future years so I do not regard delays at this stage as a worst case scenario.


----------



## truevalue (20 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> time, money, know-how and luck is probably all it takes...
> 
> 
> 
> A lot will depend on the next pre-commercial run, I guess. But keep in mind that the YTK business will provide significant amount of capital in future years so I do not regard delays at this stage as a worst case scenario.




Pre-commercial? As far as I am aware the next run in December is an all out, shoot for the stars, ball tearing, rip snorting, 50 million eggs in, see what we can get out run.

We have done the time, raised the money, established the know-how and had the luck. Lets get this baby off the ground!


----------



## FI$H (22 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Pre-commercial? As far as I am aware the next run in December is an all out, shoot for the stars, ball tearing, rip snorting, 50 million eggs in, see what we can get out run.
> 
> We have done the time, raised the money, established the know-how and had the luck. Lets get this baby off the ground!




Newspapers reported 25000 fingerlings as a benchmark for the next run but that could be a minimum target. Is everything in place to grow-out 200-300 000? If yes, full steam ahead!


----------



## tge oracle (29 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Regarding today's announcement, I am pleased that they have cleared the balance sheet for FY10 but I am dissapointed that they made no mention of the YTK business achieving positive cash flow in H2/09. They had forecast that the YTK business would be accretive during this period.
The " clearing of the decks" has provided somewhat of a smokescreen for the YTK business progress during H2/09.
I would like more detail on how YTK is performing financially as, IMO, it must be able to contribute to cash flow in a positive fashion to help cover expenses for SBT production in the initial stages. 
There will also be the need for Capraising but the more YTK contributes the less Cap required from investors.

Any other views on this ?


----------



## truevalue (29 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Oracle,

The reduction in kingfish numbers next year is positive for cashflow in two ways; 1) Sales volumes will be greater than production volumes for the first time ever meaning YTK will contribute to rather than consume cash, especially if they can deliver on the $8m pa in savings in feed costs and labour efficiency; and 2) the less # of YTK will allow for more space for SBT without additional capex needing to be spent.

This whole announcement highlights the stupidity of current accounting standards that forces companies with regenerating assets such as wine companies (vineyards) and agricultural companies (cattle, fish etc) to revalue their inventories every year to "market value". This has the effect of massively distorting reported profit every year as inventories are revalued up and down as market prices change. All other manufacturers report profits based on historic cost of goods sold and if Cleanseas were able to report on this basis their profit would be quite good in the second half.

All up the announcement is typical of that which occurs when a new CEO is appointed. The result will be lower reported profits today but higher reported profits in the future.


----------



## tge oracle (29 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks Truevalue, I was just hoping for a little more detail on YTK sales and profitability. I agree , the outlook for YTK does look good based on today's announcement and accept that accounting protocols do make it difficult to be more specific with financial predictions etc.
Perhaps the new CEO will provide more details once he has settled in.


----------



## FI$H (30 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_The forecasts come as the first tuna fingerlings from Clean Seas' 2009 trials reach 30cm at 125 days of age. It has retained about 40 fingerlings to continue its research at the Arno Bay Hatchery._

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25854315-462,00.html

Do you interpret downsizing of the YTK business really as a shift of focus to SBT or a failure of that business model? Are the larger tanks with curtains the new hatchery they refer to?

I'm also confused by:
_Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (ASX:CSS) today warned it would incur a net loss of about $6m for the second half of the 2009 year, compared with the first-half net loss of $6.6m._
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/133500081

_CLEAN Seas expects to post a loss of $6 million for the financial year after writing down the value of a number of sectors within its business._
http://www.portlincolntimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/clean-seas-6m-loss/1582244.aspx

Didn't they suggest a strong profit in H2/2009 and a near break-even for 2009? How did they go from ~6M profit to 6M of loss in H2?  The write downs don't sum up to 12M.


----------



## truevalue (30 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



FI$H said:


> _
> Didn't they suggest a strong profit in H2/2009 and a near break-even for 2009? How did they go from ~6M profit to 6M of loss in H2?  The write downs don't sum up to 12M.
> 
> _



_

Mulloway WD - 2.2
YTK WD        - 4.9
ME Costs      - 1.2
SBT Dev Costs 3.7

Total             $12m

We have to wait for the result to come out but it does look like on the "operating" side of the business they made a $6m profit in the second half._


----------



## tge oracle (30 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Mulloway WD - 2.2
> YTK WD        - 4.9
> ME Costs      - 1.2
> SBT Dev Costs 3.7
> ...




Yes, agreed Truevalue, but why not elude to this in the annoumcement, they don't have to be specifc just an indication that YTK is generating postive revenue would suffice until the results come out. It will add a lot of confidence to current investors and, more importantlly, those wishing to invest in CSS.

In regards to FI$H's concerns about YTK fingerling production, I am not concerned by this move as all businesses have had to reduce inventory levels in the current market conditions, no matter what they are producing. It makes perfect sense to produce a product that is commensurate with demand. If demand increases , then so can production. 

We all look forward to the successful commercial production of SBT, but I would still like to see YTK accompany that success as YTK does satisfy demand accross a broader product range, albeit at lower margins. When times get tough it is important to have a product that can sell when premium products are off most consumers shopping lists i.e. SBT.

Let's wait for the numbers and accompanying commentary before we all jump to conclusions.


----------



## truevalue (31 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Positive article on CSS and Kinki collaboration

http://www.worldfishing.net/news/news_story.ehtml?o=3132

Quarterly Cashflow out. Cash inflow looks ok. Big increase in working capital - $14m - hopefully that includes the new SBT hatchery tanks.


----------



## FI$H (31 July 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thank you oracle and true value! Today's release seems to be better received than yesterday's and we're back to where we were. Let's hope they'll finish the new hatchery in time.


----------



## truevalue (3 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A good article on the state of the world Blue fin Tuna population as well as a discussion on the scientific hurdles facing CSS and other wouldbe producers of Bluefin.

Interesting that CSS is getting more and more support from the greenies which is a big turnaround from the Green stance just 2 years ago when they were hailing this project as completely environmentally unsustainable. Now they are "The Saviour" of bluefin.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/07/tunafarms/


----------



## tge oracle (5 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Earlier on in this thread there was reference made to MPA by Green08. I advised that I was not invested in this company and, although I believe they have a great product I had a number of concerns about MPA that precluded any intention to invest. I won't go in to detail now but the recent announcement concerning cash flow etc raised by the ASX in regards to MPA should be of concern to investors.

Disclosure - I don't own and never have, MPA shares, but this has a similar ring to AAQ. I am not a financial adviser and this is only my humble opinion , but , Invesors beware!


----------



## Ruincity (14 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have been a part of this stock for a reaonably time frame now (especially for my trading style).
Is there any reasoning that I am unaware of that would explain the relentless selling/dumping that has been evident over the past 3 days??

Has been some decent volumes going through (For CSS) and the sell queue is simply being eaten away by on market sells with very little buying support (other than queued orders)..

Starts to make one wonder - is there something we/I don't know? 
or 
Is this just a normal ebb and flow....


----------



## tge oracle (14 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Ruincity said:


> I have been a part of this stock for a reaonably time frame now (especially for my trading style).
> Is there any reasoning that I am unaware of that would explain the relentless selling/dumping that has been evident over the past 3 days??
> 
> Has been some decent volumes going through (For CSS) and the sell queue is simply being eaten away by on market sells with very little buying support (other than queued orders)..
> ...




Ruincity,

I don't think there is anything sinister going on with CSS. There are large volumes changing hands but that does mean there is buying support, unlike 2007 when there were only sellers. My guess it is larger investors re-balancing their portfolios. Additionally, the rapidly rising AUD is not helping. Most of CSS's YTK is exported so this must be impacting margins. 
There won't be any significant change in the value of CSS until SBT is produced in commercial quantities.


----------



## truevalue (17 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There is a keen seller in the market who has been around for a couple of weeks now. Buyers know he is there and so are hanging back forcing him to sell at lower prices. In thinly traded stocks this sort of trading is just a fact of life that in no way affects the fundamentals of the business.

Why is the seller selling? Who knows but it could be something as simple as a new portfolio manager who doesn't know the stock just getting it out of the portfolio.


----------



## keskinu (23 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Informative story on the Port Lincoln SBT industry featured on Landline today. Video available on the ABC website... 
(sorry - it won't let me post a link as i have less than 5 posts)...


----------



## nizora (25 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



keskinu said:


> Informative story on the Port Lincoln SBT industry featured on Landline today. Video available on the ABC website...
> (sorry - it won't let me post a link as i have less than 5 posts)...





Catch 22 Landline -ABC 23 AUG 2009

"The tuna season in South Australia is winding down after the most tumultuous year in more than two decades. Prices have plummeted, as Japanese consumers tighten their purse strings and Tuna producers are also under pressure from conservationists as campaigns against tuna fishing gather pace."

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2008/s2663962.htm


----------



## keskinu (26 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for posting the link Nizora.

Looks like interesting times lay ahead for the SBT industry in the mid-term. I still happily hold CSS with a 5 year outlook. 

In my opinion, I think if CSS are successful with a 'sustainable' SBT product (this importantly includes the use of alternate pellet feeds), and if CSS is able to 'market' it's product with this sustainability as a differentiator - then I would like to hope that there is enough demand in that niche market to make up for a more general price drop in wild catch SBT... not sure that this is a great analogy (it's getting late and I might be rambling a little); but if you look at something like "cage farmed eggs" versus "free range eggs", I think that armed with the right information, consumers can choose to make a difference and spend more for a product based on ethical grounds. The fact that CSS could provide a 'sustainable' alternative to wild catch SBT is one of the main reasons I personally hold this stock... 

definitely still a way to go on this journey though....

... looking forward to seeing how the first batch of juveniles handle the transition to 'at sea growout' later this year...

As always - do your own research, and invest based on your own reasoning...


----------



## copashark (26 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In terms of the spawning of SBT later this year, im anticipating numbers of fingerlings to be significantly higher than the last spawn. CSS were not ready for the numbers of fertilised eggs at the last spawn. 

The SP has rallied in advance of the last spawning, i expect this again and better outcomes  

DYOR, i hold and Im accumilating.


----------



## truevalue (26 August 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Catch 22 Landline -ABC 23 AUG 2009
> 
> "The tuna season in South Australia is winding down after the most tumultuous year in more than two decades. Prices have plummeted, as Japanese consumers tighten their purse strings and Tuna producers are also under pressure from conservationists as campaigns against tuna fishing gather pace."
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2008/s2663962.htm




Prices have plummeted from crazy unsustainable levels where we saw many stories of record prices being paid for single fish. There were stories of farmgate wholesale prices of over $50/kg

When CSS talks about $10 gross margin/kg my information says they are not assuming the prices that have been achieved in the last few years but rather a more realistic price of around $20/kg at the farmgate.

A moratorium on NBT and SBT wildcatch would be shocking for Port Lincoln tuna industry (but great for CSS) something that noone wants (and CSS doesn't need).

Asking the head of the Tuna Fishing Association his view on the future of CSS is akin to asking Kevin Rudd if Malcolm Turnbull will be the next Prime Minister. Having CSS succeed is almost the last thing he and his members would like to see.


----------



## Ruincity (4 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Ruincity said:


> I have been a part of this stock for a reaonably time frame now (especially for my trading style).
> Is there any reasoning that I am unaware of that would explain the relentless selling/dumping that has been evident over the past 3 days??
> 
> Has been some decent volumes going through (For CSS) and the sell queue is simply being eaten away by on market sells with very little buying support (other than queued orders)..
> ...




Well the relentless selling has not eased in weeks.  
Makes you wonder what has fundamentally changed and why the rush for the exits?
35cm fish are now swimming around?
Should have followed my gut instinct and sold out when early signs indicated that things were heading south... 

We need some really good news to restore some faith..


----------



## tge oracle (4 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Ruincity said:


> Well the relentless selling has not eased in weeks.
> Makes you wonder what has fundamentally changed and why the rush for the exits?
> 35cm fish are now swimming around?
> Should have followed my gut instinct and sold out when early signs indicated that things were heading south...
> ...




Ruincity,

As explained in my earlier post I think that some of the early selling was re-balancing portfolios around the cap-raising where there is traditionally higher volume trading.

Since the cap-raising the AUD has appreciated approx 20%.
CSS is essentailly being valued on the YTK business at present.
In addition to the rapidly rising AUD they have cut production of YTK from 1.25M from 1M. So they have the double whammy of reduced product sales and decreasing margins which will lead to lower revenue / profits.


----------



## truevalue (4 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Ruincity said:


> Well the relentless selling has not eased in weeks.
> Makes you wonder what has fundamentally changed and why the rush for the exits?
> 35cm fish are now swimming around?
> Should have followed my gut instinct and sold out when early signs indicated that things were heading south...
> ...




I thought the results announcement was very poor. You had to read it in conjuction with the prior announcement re the write-offs and downgrades to try and work out what one-off's had been included. There was no decent commentry that went with the result which made it very difficult to interpret.

Important details such as king fish sales volumes were excluded, the farmgate price they are getting is impossible to establish as is the margin they are achieving in YTK. I at least would like to see some evidence they are improving YTK production efficiency.

Hopefully there will be some decent disclosure in the annual report and at the AGM.


----------



## Ruincity (4 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yeh well I'm not exactly a fundamentalist in my trading and this stock is one that I own based on some basic fundamentals and the fact that I really like and believe in the business concept moving forward. 

I understand that Lonsec had re-rated their advice on this stock to "under review".  So maybe this is where all the recent wholesale dumping has come from... 545355 shares traded so far today another whopping volume number in CSS terms.. 

Yes, some of the details were sketchy on the recent report but this has long been the case with CSS reporting anyway..  I think it is time for me to make a call to the company and see "whats up"..  Ask a couple of questions and see if all is still well on the SBT front.  I'm just surprised because as long as the current R+D SBT are still alive and growing I would assume that long term prospects for this would support the SP in the short term.. 
This why I wonder....

TGE they are some valid points you raise regarding the YTK business and it's ties with the $AUD.  This alone could surely support the re-rating of price that is currently occuring.


----------



## truevalue (4 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Ruincity said:


> Yeh well I'm not exactly a fundamentalist in my trading and this stock is one that I own based on some basic fundamentals and the fact that I really like and believe in the business concept moving forward.
> 
> I understand that Lonsec had re-rated their advice on this stock to "under review".  So maybe this is where all the recent wholesale dumping has come from... 545355 shares traded so far today another whopping volume number in CSS terms..
> 
> ...




I think you just have to keep your eyes on the big picture mate. The SBT program is on track and the original SBT are still alive (and are likely to remain so). 

590,000 shares is a big number for CSS but in $ terms for your average company as a % of market cap it is not exceptional or even unusual. If an institutional investor lost a mandate and had to liquidate 5,000,000 shares it would take 3 months assuming normal trading. if he wanted to do it in a hurry then in a thinly traded stock like this he is going to have a big impact on the price. While this makes you and I feel like crap, it also makes us question our research and reiterates why we hold the stock in the first place. 

Remember in the short run the stock market is a voting machine but in the long run it is a weighing machine. When CSS delivers so will the share price.


----------



## Ruincity (12 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,26055351-20142,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,27574,26055109-2682,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26054032-643,00.html

There is reference to this in a recent release here: http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20090910/pdf/31kn6qd8tn5p7n.pdf  but as the articles above will show the media has gotten all over this.. 

The CSS article was not even listed as "Market Sensitive". 

Anyway back to .525 and momentum has shifted, largest volume spike since the 12th June yesterday and the 12th signalled the start of a bearish trend.
I hope and believe the volume spike signals the start of a much more bullish bias this time. 

And this article was also posted on the 9th http://www.portlincolntimes.com.au/...al/tuna-getting-bigger-every-day/1619909.aspx which talks about the current size and prospects of the existing R&D SBT.  Starting to look like real fish now and nearing 1kg is quite impressive. 

Anyway a heap of news and a much better week for all CSS holders. 
Wish I had known about this news a little earlier too as I might have more agressively sought another little parcel - my buy price didn't get hit..


----------



## kenny (13 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the links Ruincity. Goos weekend reading.

Hopefully, the SBT project will be considered less a "blue sky" deal in the sp in the coming months.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## truevalue (22 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Investor presentation to the BBY conference today. Not much new news but looks like things are still well on track. There is a nice chart breaking down the FY09 result which would have been helpful when they released the result.
Heavy selling seems to have abated.
Looking forward to the annual report and AGM


----------



## Ruincity (22 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There has been a whole load of institutional level selling and still no release regarding which entity has left the register or is partially leaving the register. 

Nevertheless shortly after the release this morning I notice a change in the "vibe" no more dumping into buying strength anymore.  We are even on target for a blue/buy candle by the days end - it has been 16 trading days since we last saw one of these! Fingers crossed.....

I note this in the key risks section of the presentation:

"Water temperatures too cool for transfer of SBT fingerlings to sea cages"

Would someone care to elaborate a little further regarding this?
I understand that they haven't taken the existing R&D SBT stock into sea cages because it is too cold.  Is there only a small window of suitable water temperatures for SBT to survive in S.A waters?  I would have thought that the local fisheries currently keep wild SBT fished stock in offshore cages all year round?


----------



## tge oracle (23 September 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

What they are saying is that the juvenile SBT have to be mature enough to withstand cooler water temperatures.
For the best possible outcome they will need to produce SBT eggs/larvae by Nov/Dec. This will allow the fish to grow to juvenile stage prior to transfer to sea pens. 
As they grow, space in the incubation tanks becomes a premium so they will be looking to transfer them at the earliest opportunity. 
A late summer spawning may create problems as the fingerlings will have to be kept in incubation tanks throughout winter. This could be a challenging if they produce a significant quantity eggs/larvae like last year.


----------



## tge oracle (1 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This unexpected Cap Raising has me concerned. There was no mention of the need for further funds so soon in the annual report released a few days ago.
The raising is to cover the costs of commercial scale production of SBT fingerlings. That's all very well but they haven't spawned yet!
I think my earlier prediction of a dramatic loss of revenue from the YTK business is the major culprit here.
We'll have to wait for more details but I am very wary of un-planned Cap Raisings.

What's your take on this Truevalue?


----------



## truevalue (1 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> This unexpected Cap Raising has me concerned. There was no mention of the need for further funds so soon in the annual report released a few days ago.
> The raising is to cover the costs of commercial scale production of SBT fingerlings. That's all very well but they haven't spawned yet!
> I think my earlier prediction of a dramatic loss of revenue from the YTK business is the major culprit here.
> We'll have to wait for more details but I am very wary of un-planned Cap Raisings.
> ...




I had heard a few weeks ago that they were about to announce a strategic investor, which had me worried because the share price is too low to be giving value away to strategic investors regardless of their pedigree.

After reading the auditors report and checking the expiry of the Rabobank facility, I suspect the raising is being done to pay out Rabobank who have been asking for their money back from many of their Australian customers recently (blaming the GFC), and now I suspect CSS.

I have no problem with CSS raising capital to pay back Rabobank so long as existing shareholders get to participate equally in the raising and don't get diluted. We all knew as shareholders that CSS would be raising capital in the future, this has just come along much sooner that previously expected (I would say 12 months early). Whether CSS raises at 0.40 or $1.00 should not make any difference to us as shareholders as long as we get to participate equally - if you dont believe me just do a simple calculation assuming both scenarios, your total investment return is the same. Unfortunately the maths doesn't work if you dont have the cash to follow your rights.

The time has come for shareholders to make a choice - thumbs up and the company lives, thumbs down and it dies. The problem is, we are being asked to make a leap of faith that CSS will have a commercial quantity of SBT in the water in early 2010, whereas before this announcement we would have been dipping into our pockets in 12 months time knowing fully that there were 25,000+ 9 month old fish swimming happily in a sea cage. 

This has the potential to be a great company, I have no doubt, but the anti may have gone up too high too early. We shall see.........


----------



## tge oracle (3 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Tks for the insight Truevalue.

I have a few comments to make.

I would be very concerned if Rabobank want their money back after supporting CSS for the past 4 years or so. Rabobank is one of the worlds safest banks ( No.6 to be precise ) and I am sure they would prefer to keep lending to businesses they are confident will grow in the future. I would regard a decision to withdraw support from CSS as an acknowledgement that CSS is a very high risk entity.
If this is the case and banks won't lend money to CSS, then I agree, CSS is very much in the hands of it's shareholders.

I would like to know more about the YTK business and it's profitibility. I was expecting revenue support from YTK to help cover expenses over the next 6-12mths. It would appear that YTK is losing money , perhaps significantly, and this may have forced Rabobanks hand.
The underlying concern I have is if they can't make YTK profitibe after 4 years , what does this say about their ability to do so with SBT.

Without bank support, CSS's future will be totally dependant on a commercial breeding success this summer and when I say commercial I mean hundreds of thousands of fish, not just 25000 as previously projected.

We will have to wait for details on the Cap Raising but I am very cautious about this unexpected event.


----------



## Rainmaker2000 (3 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

My personal preference is to never own a stock at a stage like Clean Seas, as the risk just does not make sense.....

Basically, one general rule for a stock you want to get a 20% return compounded each year...............that means the stock will double each 3.2 years........

How can Clean Seas be justified as an investment if profitability is a distant dream?

Meanwhile, my baby TGR keeps growing around 30% yearly..........I can't wait for TGR to pick up Cleans Seas just as it becomes profitable, if its worth it, using TGR's future richness and Clean Seas heavily diluted capital base.......all the hard work will have been done and TGR will reap the dividends as Ausses largest acqaculture company


----------



## tge oracle (5 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I hold TGR as well Rainmaker and agree that it has been a good long term investment. For a while CSS was following a similar growth path and tragectory, sadly for shareholders, it has gone the opposite way over the past year or so and has been a very poor investment. You would have been much better off putting your money under a matress for the past 4 years than investing in CSS.

I will scrutinise every word of the Cap Raising offer , including looking for information that is omitted.
Some key " red flag" indicators I will watch for are:

1. Rabobank selling out.
2. Failure to find another institutional investor or Bank support.
3. The Sterhrs reducing their holding by selling to a new investor.
I would be happy for them to do so after commercial breeding success but not before.
4. The offer price. If it is dramatically reduced then the risk profile and willingness for new investors to participate will have been weak.
5. How much they intend to raise and how it is going to be used. I want to know if they are going to tap shareholders for more funds again soon.
6. Will the future viability of the company now depend on commercial breeding success this summer , not just pre-commercial.

I hope other investors will join in this discussion as I fell we are very much at the crossroads with CSS and need to consider every possibility.


----------



## keskinu (5 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hagen Stehr stepping down as chairman to bring in the "next phase" of CSS 
abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/05/2704995.htm


----------



## nizora (6 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I will scrutinise every word of the Cap Raising offer , including looking for information that is omitted.
> Some key " red flag" indicators I will watch for are:
> 
> 1. Rabobank selling out.
> 2. Failure to find another institutional investor or Bank support.




Read this report a few days ago:

Debt financier’s position - The Company has a $27m facility with
Rabobank. It was fully drawn at 30 June 2009, and appears as a current
liability in the 2009 accounts implying it is repayable in full this fiscal year.
We understand Rabobank has requested the repayment of $7m this month
and the balance by the end of FY10. We believe discussions are under way
regarding an extension to the term. Those discussions may extend beyond
the timeframe for the equity raising. Regardless, there is merit in the
Company moving to a debt free position until it proves up its SBT project in
order to remove the associated repayment burden and settlement risk
 Why rapid deterioration in conditions? - A succession of unforeseen
events: failing to meet its 2009 sales targets, an increase in growout costs,
an adverse change in feedstock settlement terms, inventory write downs and
a requirement to repay $7m of its debt facility at relatively short notice


----------



## nizora (6 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



keskinu said:


> Hagen Stehr stepping down as chairman to bring in the "next phase" of CSS
> abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/05/2704995.htm




The founder of the Port Lincoln Tuna company, Clean Seas, will be stepping down as chairman to make way for someone with international experience.

Hagen Stehr says the move is part of a new commercialisation phase for the company but he will still have an active involvement.

Share trading in the company has been suspended because of the move that Mr Stehr says is exciting for the company.

"We need to go from an R and D company into commercialisation and that means that we will restructure the board somewhat," he said.

"I've done all the hard yards and now we take the next step up for corporate governance and everything else - we are going to get some very, very good chairman and directors together."


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (7 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I hold TGR as well Rainmaker and agree that it has been a good long term investment. For a while CSS was following a similar growth path and tragectory, sadly for shareholders, it has gone the opposite way over the past year or so and has been a very poor investment. You would have been much better off putting your money under a matress for the past 4 years than investing in CSS.
> 
> I will scrutinise every word of the Cap Raising offer , including looking for information that is omitted.
> Some key " red flag" indicators I will watch for are:
> ...




I think we have all been a bit broadsided by this recent announcement and suspension and have lost some faith in the stock as a result.  However it might be a good time to take a step back and look at the facts.  It would appear that Rabobank want to reduce their exposure to CSS - this is more of a reflection of the banking industry than CSS.  If you think about it they were willing to lend money to CSS when they had a pie in the sky idea (that had never been done before), but now that they've proved they can do it R'bank are going to pull they're funding.... this would seem to be be more a case of R'bank reducing they're exposure across the board than a commentary on CSS.  They are not Robinson Carusoe there, banks are pulling funding everywhere.  Now CSS have to raise funds to repay the debt, they are not currently profitable so the money has to come from somewhere....new strategic investors or the current shareholders.  They are not currently profitable despite previous projections b/c we have experienced (and are experiencing) a global recession which impacts directly on returns on sales and therefore write-downs on inventories...it is happening to all food/commodity producers.  i work in industry associated with selling food commodities and strong robust companies that haven't made a loss in decades have reported huge losses for the last 12 months.  Again CSS are not Robinson Carusoe.  
CSS have proved they can produce fingerlings on land and now have 4-5 month old SBT to prove it.  They have a competitive advantage over others by approx 4-5 years. They now move onto try to commercialise the process.  It looks to me like there is unlimited upside and a much reduced downside.  The only real difference has been to take a debt facility from a liability and put it over on the equity side. 
I will be keeping the faith.


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (7 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Rainmaker2000 said:


> My personal preference is to never own a stock at a stage like Clean Seas, as the risk just does not make sense.....
> 
> Basically, one general rule for a stock you want to get a 20% return compounded each year...............that means the stock will double each 3.2 years........
> 
> ...




TGR stock price at beginning 2006 = $1.30
TGR stock price today = $1.745
Total dividends during this period = 0.22 p.s.
Total return for nearly 4 years = 0.66 p.s. (51% over 3.8years)
Compounding return of 10% which is a nice return but hardly 30%!

Upside from producing salmon for supermarkets - moderate
Upside from being the only company in the world to produce aquaculture bred southern blue fin tuna - unlimited


----------



## Rainmaker2000 (7 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Mate, that's the whole point.......in all your metrics........you missed the vital one.......

Earnings per share and more importantly earnings per share growth....which I believe is averaging at round 40% for last 3 or 4 years

CSS is not intending to earn money for a while, while TGR is exponentially compounding..........that's my point......cash flows upon cash flows V dilution of sharehoder capital on top of more dilution

Why would I care about the current stock price?????????  It has just allowed me to pick up more bargains........my preference is for them to pay no dividends either!!!!!!

If you leave out earnings........yes, you can compare CSS to TGR........and you can compare all these to Enron which still trades in some form on New York exchange......So what.........

Just cause Myer is priced at 15X earnings and Tassal at 7X earnings says something about how subjective stock valuation is.........but compounding earnings is a little more objective.....and tells the story in the end


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (7 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Rainmaker2000 said:


> Mate, that's the whole point.......in all your metrics........you missed the vital one.......
> 
> Earnings per share and more importantly earnings per share growth....which I believe is averaging at round 40% for last 3 or 4 years
> 
> ...




Why would you care about the stock price????? Because in your first post you mentioned that you are only interested in stocks that double in price every 3.2 years....


----------



## tge oracle (8 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, I certainly fell "broadsided ' by this announcement BHLCSS. I think it is fair to say most shareholders are.

I can't quite follow your reasoning for Rabobank wanting to withdraw their funding for CSS, if this is actually the case.
The risk profile of CSS, as you quite rightly point out, was higher when it first started business but surely banks would feel more comfortable with their lending as the risk reduced, after all, banks are in the lending business and that's where they make most of their profits.
I do acknowledge that paying down debt is a good move for CSS but why not include some of this in the last " planned " Cap Raising held a couple of months ago. If this had been gazetted and initiated by CSS I would feel a lot more comfortable. 

I won't go into debate over TGR, but I think that any investor would be much more satisfied with an investment in TGR over CSS at this stage, I know I certainly am!


----------



## truevalue (8 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have it on good authority that CSS is not the only SBT player broadsided by Rabobank. Half the SBT fishermen in Port Lincoln have been cut off. This is a fairly niche market and not many other lenders have the expertise to provide this "crop" lending. I am still trying to find out why Rabobank has taken this step.


----------



## keskinu (8 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi all, 
Just to add another question to the mix- Does anyone believe the recent approval given to Centrex to ship Iron Ore from Port Lincoln has any part to play in the (alleged) pullout by Rabobank? Or in a broader sense, whether the Centrex operations will impact the business of CSS in the medium term?? I recall the chairman stating he would consider re-locating if approval went ahead... could possibly have been a bluff? I haven't read the environmental impact assesment (or equivalent) from Centrex, but they either did a good job at convincing the govt. there wasn't a risk to the Port Lincoln ecosystem, or there really is a minimal risk (or the govt weighed up the risk against the $ they would get from Centrex in taxes?)

I personally was quite disappointed as I intend to hold CSS long term, and the approval granted to Centrex has added some uncertainty in my mind...


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (9 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, I certainly fell "broadsided ' by this announcement BHLCSS. I think it is fair to say most shareholders are.
> 
> I can't quite follow your reasoning for Rabobank wanting to withdraw their funding for CSS, if this is actually the case.
> The risk profile of CSS, as you quite rightly point out, was higher when it first started business but surely banks would feel more comfortable with their lending as the risk reduced, after all, banks are in the lending business and that's where they make most of their profits.
> ...




TGE, there is a reason Rabobank rank about 6th in the world, thats b/c they are very conservative and have built their business on that one underlying principle.  When CSS were 1st looking for funding the world was a different place and whilst still conservative compared to other banks, R'bank were willing to take on more risk.  The GFC has sent an enormous shudder through the banking world and without exception led to a lot of scrutiny of loan portfolios.  R'bank are dutch therefore the EU is their home.  I don't think we realise down here with our increasing interest rates / falling unemployment etc just what a mess the EU is in, many of their member countries are f__ked, excuse my french.  So R'bank have some serious problems at home and as a result want to concentrate on these issues and recoup funds where possible from what have been re-rated as risky exposures.   As previously stated I think this is more of a reflection on Rabobanks plight than CSS. 

So why haven't CSS aimed to pay down debt from previous cap raisings?? I would guess b/c they were comfortable with their debt levels and have been broadsided by this decision as much as we have been.  Also i think they will struggle to find another lender who would have the knowledge and experience to understand the biz like R'bank did.    

Of course this is all conjecture, i don't really know whether this is the case, just guessing. 

At the end of the day CSS are ready to commercialise their wonderful experiment, obviously the timing of this announcement is terrible in what should be a very positive time for the co. reflected by a firming share price as risk is reduced.  But it is what it is, and from what i can see a good opportunity. 

As far as TGR goes i couldn't agree with you more, it's a good stock and has been good to those that have held it for a long period, i just dont see why someone would join a discussion about a stock they have no intention of holding (by their own admission) and really bring nothing to the discussion.  Whats the point in making a comment at all?  There has been some really good discussions here by people who know what they're talking about and have made positive and negative comments about the company but all have been well thought out, not just comment for comment sake. 

Anyway i guess we just have to wait till next week to see how it all shapes up.


----------



## Rainmaker2000 (9 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I must say I'm a fan of farming fish.........and that's why have followed CSS since float.........they didn't fit my risk matrix then and don't know........my point, as at the top, when the issue of risk came up...........I made it clear why this stock has never fit my risk profile.......

That may interest some conservative investors looking at the latest capital raising or it may not......that's why its an internet forum I guess.......

As for CSS, I wish all holders all the best.......the actual work done by this company is pretty ground breaking and a great example of what Aussies can do.....unfortunately, exciting stories like this don't seem to often make good investments on an eps basis........but I hope it really makes it big


----------



## drlog (13 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am confused. The ASX announcement said they would resume trading on *Wednesday the 13th of October 2009*. Well, its the 13th today but it isn't Wednesday 

Do you think we will have a rights issue or a SPP? 

I think there is a lot of potential for CSS so I will throw them some more money.


----------



## truevalue (13 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> I am confused. The ASX announcement said they would resume trading on *Wednesday the 13th of October 2009*. Well, its the 13th today but it isn't Wednesday
> 
> Do you think we will have a rights issue or a SPP?
> 
> I think there is a lot of potential for CSS so I will throw them some more money.




I don't think it will come on again before Friday drlog. 

I understand there is a SPP for retail investors to purchase up to $15,000 worth of new shares and a placement of shares, which makes up the majority of the raising. I am hearing the capital raising is going very well with strong demand from institutional and retail investors. The price is 25 cents and will raise $50m.

If you want to bid in the placement I think Bell Securities and Lonsec are the ones to call.


----------



## tge oracle (14 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Gee, that's quite a discount Truevalue! I was thinking mid 30's.

I will be watching very closely for the status of YTK , if they provide them, because we are going to need revenue support for SBT growout over the next couple of years otherwise it will be back to shareholders for more funds. 

What are your views on this?


----------



## truevalue (16 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Gee, that's quite a discount Truevalue! I was thinking mid 30's.
> 
> I will be watching very closely for the status of YTK , if they provide them, because we are going to need revenue support for SBT growout over the next couple of years otherwise it will be back to shareholders for more funds.
> 
> What are your views on this?




YTK is ahead of budget this year. Expected to be cashflow positive. They have a cashflow forcast in the presentation that cover cash requirements for a couple of years. I am hopeful they are have raised enough to get to 5,000 t of SBT.


----------



## steveba5 (16 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The length of the trading halt with CSS is starting to worry me.  And talk about a discount for the latest share offer, they're almost giving them away!


----------



## tge oracle (16 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That sounds encouraging Truevalue. 

I hope the Cap Raising details are thorough and leave no question marks for investors.
The 25c price is lower than most would have expected but provided it covers costs and extinguishes debt it could be very attractive. Many of my other investments that have made significant Cap Raisings are well above issue price. Despite the initial pain it does reduce risk and uncertainty.

Steve5, CSS have advised the market they need more time to complete the raising. I don't have any concerns about this at this stage.


----------



## steveba5 (16 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I spoke with Lonsec this morning and they informed me the latest raising had been completed and the trading halt finishes Monday.


----------



## smallfry (16 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

ABC News item:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/16/2716201.htm

posted about 3 pm....

_Bluefin tuna stocks close to collapse.

The prized southern bluefin tuna industry, worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Australia, could be heading for a major collapse unless a moratorium on fishing the species is adopted. 

That is the view of TRAFFIC, a program of the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF), and several scientists who are becoming increasingly concerned at the low level of spawning stock.

The southern bluefin tuna is at an all-time low, below 10 per cent of its original population size, and what that means is at any time it could collapse._

Sad as this news may be for the world, if CSS have truly mastered the technique of captive breeding the returns could be astonishing?  Views?

Interesting to watch on Monday.....


----------



## BlueHshoeLvs CSS (17 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smallfry said:


> ABC News item:
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/16/2716201.htm
> 
> ...




Smallfry this is sad news but as you rightly point out good for CSS, combined with concerns re: overfishing of Northern Blue Fin in Mediterranean might bring the spotlight onto the stock.  We all hold our breath for Monday.  I am personally dissapointed the cap raising was at such a large discount 
(especially when not offered to current holders of the stock), but with some big fish (excuse the pun) becoming aware of the stock it might not be such a bad thing in the long run. Time will tell.


----------



## nathanblack (17 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Gee, that's quite a discount Truevalue! I was thinking mid 30's.
> 
> I will be watching very closely for the status of YTK , if they provide them, because we are going to need revenue support for SBT growout over the next couple of years otherwise *it will be back to shareholders for more funds*.
> 
> What are your views on this?




A few months ago i was considering buying into this stock, partly from the high quality posts on this forum. i have no experience in this industry/sector but the forum has helped me see the huge potential. and i may one day invest, especially if cap raising at such a discount brings the sp sharply lower.

the one thing that has stopped me at this point is the company seems to prefer cap raisings at a heavy discount AND to outside investors. i'd feel more comfortable(less dilution) if they tapped existing holders first and only topped up externally if their was a shortfall.

cheers and goodluck on monday.


----------



## explod (17 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

From a trend perspective the stock is an absolute dud, if I held even at a huge loss I would put the money into something that is going up then back in when CSS gets back into uptrend which would be towards the 85 cent mark.

A lot got into this from about April with high hopes, since dashed so expect a lot of resistance/selling between 60 and 70 cents, will take a great deal for this to recover beyond that.

cheers explod


----------



## tge oracle (18 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I think it's fair to say every CSS investor wishes they had sat on the sidelines for the past 4 years. The stock listed @ 50c and now, nearly 4 years later, new investors are getting onboard at half that price.

Despite their recent SBT success and the low offer price it is still an extremely risky investment, possibly more so than at any other time.
This cap raising is about 12 mths early and should have been made on the pretext of commercial propogation of SBT fingerlings. This hasn't occurred yet! but investors are being tapped for 50Mill as if it had.

It is a very simple proposition now, they have to succeed with a commercial scale breeding of SBT fingelings this summer. Failure to do so will defalte the confidence of even the most stoic supporters ( investors ).

If I were not invested I would sit on the sidelines until they succeed as I don't believe the stock will appreciate as it did a couple of years ago. Investors will be far more cautious and only reward the company when thay actually achieve goals not just make promises.
There will plenty of time for investors to get onboard then.

I think most of us long termers "share the dream" and realize the potential but it is make or break time now.

We will know the answer by April 2010!


----------



## nathanblack (18 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Am i correct in saying this $50mil cap raising is only to payout a loan facility, and CSS will still probably tap the market again in 12months for working capital to go commercial?

is their more dilution ahead?


----------



## truevalue (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nathanblack said:


> Am i correct in saying this $50mil cap raising is only to payout a loan facility, and CSS will still probably tap the market again in 12months for working capital to go commercial?
> 
> is their more dilution ahead?




No the loan facility is $20m and they had $13m cash on balance sheet. After paying back the $20m they will have $40 odd mill for working capital. They should be right for a few years at least. Any futher capital raisings will only happen if the market for SBT justifies a scale upgrade in production.


----------



## steveba5 (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well CSS have been slaughtered on opening today.  They've dropped around 40%.  I'm very annoyed that the company discounted shares so much in the capital raising and effectively drastically reduced the value of already existing shares.  I've lost a lot of money today!


----------



## nizora (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smallfry said:


> ABC News item:
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/16/2716201.htm
> 
> ...






The prized southern bluefin tuna industry, worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Australia, could be heading for a major collapse unless a moratorium on fishing the species is adopted. 

That is the view of TRAFFIC, a program of the conservation organisation WWF, and several scientists who are becoming increasingly concerned at the low level of spawning stock and the low levels of annual recruitment of young fish to that of breeding stock.

The issue will come to a head at the annual Commission for the Conservation of the Southern Bluefin Tuna (CCSBT), which meets in South Korea next week.

Lateline understands the scientific report to be presented at the meeting is expected to show a dramatic fall in stocks.

The delegates to the commission have all signed confidentiality agreements and the true state of the stock will only be revealed once the meeting finishes on Friday, October 23.

One of the delegates to the CCSBT, CSIRO scientist Campbell Davies, cannot reveal the latest scientific data but says the information from the 2008 reports shows the stock is not recovering, despite significant cuts to quotas over the past 10 years. 

He says "this level is below the level of many nationally and internationally recognised limit points for fisheries management". In other words, below this point is crisis time.

The global marine program leader for TRAFFIC, Glenn Slant, puts the situation more bluntly: "The southern bluefin tuna is at an all-time low, below 10 per cent of its original population size, and what that means is at any time it could collapse." 

"Just this week the Australian Government released its status report ... and I can tell you there is a lot of red ink in it which represents continued overfishing and overfished levels."

The report Mr Sant is referring to is the Fishery Status Reports 2008, put out by the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics. 

But Lateline believes the evidence to be presented to the CCSBT next week may show the southern bluefin tuna is now in a worse state than its northern cousin - the northern bluefin tuna, which has just been submitted by the Prince of Monaco for what is known as a CITIES listing. 

The CITIES parties will now consider whether the tuna should be listed as an "endangered species". If accepted it would ban the trade in the species for commercial purposes, placing much more pressure on the southern bluefin tuna. 

Scientists are improving their methods of stock assessment. Since the 1990s, electronic tags have revealed information about how the southern bluefin tuna migrates over large distances and how it hunts for food. 

This information is helping scientists to more accurately determine the size of the spawning stock. Also, there is some hope that the use of genetic tags - a type of DNA fingerprinting technology - will allow scientists to estimate the size of the spawning stock independent of fishery reports. 


Data questioned

The Australian Tuna Association, which represents the Port Lincoln community, disputes the scientific claims. Chief executive Brian Jefferies says the current data is not "transparent".

"The stock is recovering, there is no question about that. What everyone agrees on is that the stock is not at risk. Where people disagree is how quickly will it take to recover."

Australian tuna fishermen are angry the benefits that should have flowed from large cuts to the quota in 1990, and then by 50 per cent in 2006, were cancelled out by years of illegal overfishing by Japan. 

Several years ago, the Japanese Government admitted it had illegally taken more than 120,000 tonnes of tuna above their total allowable catch (TAC). The figure is believed to be closer to 200,000 tonnes.

Mr Jefferies says the Japanese Government is "pulling their fishermen into line" and should be given credit for that. 

However, Mr Jefferies say there should be a debate about whether Japan needs to pay back the thousands of tonnes of tuna it was illegally catching and selling.

"They should pay back 200,000 tonnes, when they only have a quota of 6,000 tonnes - this is a political issue for the two countries. Let's see if the Government takes into account other issues such as the health of the Australian tuna industry."

But Mr Jefferies does not believe next week's CCSBT meeting in South Korea will decide to significantly cut the total allowable catch for south bluefin tuna.

"The season is about to start, the boats and pontoons are in the water already. That is not realistic. That is not going to happen," he said. 

"The real debate will be 2011, but it will be informed by the data available in 2010. We shouldn't panic and be driven by short-term decisions."

The Australian Tuna Association says it could cope with a cut to quotas if it was given enough time to adapt and the market conditions were right.

"If we were given plenty of notice, and the prices in the market were right, we will do what's best for the long-term of the resource," Mr Jefferies said.

"Australia is the only country that relies on this resource. Other countries have other fish and remember Port Lincoln has 5,000 working families relying on this resource. 

"The data is not transparent enough. By 2011 we will have a better idea of where the stock actually is instead of just speculating."


Crunch time

But Mr Sant says there is enough evidence on the public record to show the stock is in severe decline.

"Unfortunately, when we talk about fisheries we are talking about communities and people," he said. 

"Here we are in a fishing port, this port 20 years ago was dependent on eastern gem fish catches. The management of that stock was too little and too late, so the stock collapsed. At some stage we have to make hard decisions if we want a long-term future for the industry and the communities."

Mr Sant says he has been attending CCSBT meetings for 16 years but now it is "crunch time". 

"What we would like to see in Korea is for the commissioners at this meeting to substantially reduce the catch of tuna and consider a zero catch for the next couple of years. We need to get the southern bluefin tuna on a firm footing if we are going to see a recovery of the stock and the industry."


----------



## kenny (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well it seems that long suffering shareholders will get a $15000 look-in on the 25c placement by way of a SPP. Record date 24/11/2009 from the announcement.

Can't say I'm thrilled with the way this has been handled.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## enigmatic (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Has turned a 50% discount into a 16% discount if it closes in any closer on 25cents far less likely to make the capital raising, would of been far better to offer it at 40cents then 25cents would of still been arround 20% discount and far less likely to cause a massive decline in price.
lucky i had little invested, was just a gamble one that obviously didn't pay off. 

This one could be interesting long term but will be looking for a base and then upward trend before considering this again.


----------



## drlog (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm a bit confused. Why are people so angry over this?

Sure, this dropped the price right now but isn't it a reasonable thing to do in order to raise capital? It will put CSS in a better position to do what they set out to do. Also, as I understand it, all current shareholders have access to the SPP, right?

I purchased CSS with the knowledge that there are risks. If you wanted to buy in to a lower return, lower risk company that is actually making profits now, there are plenty of other shares listed on ASX.


----------



## steveba5 (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> I'm a bit confused. Why are people so angry over this?
> 
> Sure, this dropped the price right now but isn't it a reasonable thing to do in order to raise capital? It will put CSS in a better position to do what they set out to do. Also, as I understand it, all current shareholders have access to the SPP, right?
> 
> I purchased CSS with the knowledge that there are risks. If you wanted to buy in to a lower return, lower risk company that is actually making profits now, there are plenty of other shares listed on ASX.




I think the initial shock of seeing your investment drop by 40% in a matter of minutes gives you a fright.  Since learning that existing shareholders have access to the 25cent shares I feel a bit better however it does worry me that CSS had to offer such a discount on the shares to make them attractive to investors.  Todays price has recoverd quite a bit of ground so the feeling is a bit more optimistic now!  At this point in time, I will participate in the SPP.


----------



## Ruincity (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well I'm certainly not that impressed about the turn of events either.
The SPP record date is the 24th of November.  
Theoretically any Tom, Dick or Harry can now get involved in this. 
They will be forced to buy / invest some sort of cash for this to be applicable. 

I will be very interested to see what the full details of this SPP entail.. 

Personally I found the investor presentation a pretty lacklustre affair with a whole heap of re-hashed information.  I was also disappointed with the way it portrayed this capital raising as being somewhat planned rather than the unexpected event that we all know it is!!

More to discuss tonight when I get some free time. 

Cheers.


----------



## Basilica (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I wish we all knew what Rabo / Ridley / and the latest investors know.
Has CSS stated how long this round of funding will last into the commercial production stageyet?


----------



## drlog (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

From what I understand, this capital raising should get them up and running in commercial quantities in the next few years and pay off their debt. I could be wrong 

Yeah, anyone could jump in, buy $500 worth as long as they have the shares before the SPP cut off date (some time in Nov) and then participate in the SPP at the discounted price.

Its "unfair" because these new shareholders didn't have the losses we just had but it's good because it means that CSS gets more capital than they otherwise would  although, I guess there could be a scale back?

Anyway, it's all good fun!


----------



## Basilica (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> From what I understand, this capital raising should get them up and running in commercial quantities in the next few years and pay off their debt.
> Anyway, it's all good fun!




Maybe, i have not seen a prediction from CSS on it.
I assume there will be cost overruns from the upgrades to the hatchery.
I am very unclear if they now have all the infrastructure needed to produce a profitable 2012 crop and the current cash is just for future expenses (and past debt) or is more infrastructure needed for the 2012 harvest.
Yes it is all good fun but i am still on the side line waiting. 
Many readers here have not had fun at all.


----------



## truevalue (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> From what I understand, this capital raising should get them up and running in commercial quantities in the next few years and pay off their debt. I could be wrong
> 
> Yeah, anyone could jump in, buy $500 worth as long as they have the shares before the SPP cut off date (some time in Nov) and then participate in the SPP at the discounted price.
> 
> ...




I think you will find you will be able to buy as many shares as you already own (if you own 10,000 you can apply for 10,000 @ 25c) in the SPP up to a maximum of 60,000 shares. If your holding is more than 60,000 then you are being diluted but you hopefully topped up in the placement.

I think there is a good chance Ridley and Rabo come back to the party once the capital raising is approved.


----------



## tge oracle (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> I think you will find you will be able to buy as many shares as you already own (if you own 10,000 you can apply for 10,000 @ 25c) in the SPP up to a maximum of 60,000 shares. If your holding is more than 60,000 then you are being diluted but you hopefully topped up in the placement.
> 
> I think there is a good chance Ridley and Rabo come back to the party once the capital raising is approved.




Tks for that clarification Truevalue, otherwise traders will purchase small parcels under different accounts and flip them for a stag profit on listing.
Your description is the best way to handle this cap raising for small shareholders.....much fairer!

I will make a more detailed comment on this cap raising soon. I am still gathering my thoughts. I do see some negatives but also some potential key positives which I will discuss in my post.


----------



## skyQuake (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Tks for that clarification Truevalue, otherwise traders will purchase small parcels under different accounts and flip them for a stag profit on listing.
> Your description is the best way to handle this cap raising for small shareholders.....much fairer!
> 
> I will make a more detailed comment on this cap raising soon. I am still gathering my thoughts. I do see some negatives but also some potential key positives which I will discuss in my post.




No, actually, you were right first time. Anyone can just jump in before Nov and get some, then participate. This probably wasn't intentional as the company is doing this in line with the conditional placement which must be voted in (or out).

Best case scenario is that the scale back policy takes into account how many shares you hold, and allocated less to smaller holders (so the $500 buyers will get only a bit)
Worst case is pro-rata where everyone gets scaled back evenly.

Cheers and gl


----------



## tge oracle (19 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The Cap raising is very dissapointing for existing shareholders particularly if skyquake is right and new investors need only stump up $500 to be entitled to $15000 worth of stock @ 25c. If this is the case Helmsec and Lazard have let CSS down as traders will flip the stock and depress the share price significantly, this is why it got hammered today and will stay low.
Some of these traders have multiple accounts and will apply for large amounts of stock if there is sufficient margin. 
This cap raising should have been pro-rata with oversubscription like the last one. This way existing shareholders will get a fair entitlement and the possibilty of applying for more shares. Existing sharholders are more likely to subscribe and hold. H and L have left the door open to traders and speculators and this is the last thing CSS needs at the moment.

On to the details. There are a few of questions I would like answered:

1. Who is/are the new investors.
2. What is the status of the juvenile SBT produced last summer i.e. how many, what are growth rates, mortaility etc.
3. Are the Sterhrs diluting their holding and are they partcipating in the raising.

Despite the negative response and commentary I do see a few positives if this Cap raising succeeds as planned.

1. CSS will become debt free.
2. YTK is cash flow positive.
3. They are very confident of achieveing SBT propogation of 25000+ SBT this summer.
4. Potential spawning success is only a month or two away.
5. It is very hard to establish a value for CSS at present as I am not sure how to value the intellectual property rights for SBT propogation but I had been working on a valuation of mid 30's last year. This was YTK alone( profitable ) with Rabobank debt so it's anybody's guess. Either way the YTK business, SBT intellectual property rights and infrastructure assets do have a reasonable value in my opinion and would be attractive to potential purchasers.
6. The strengthening of the board and mangement is a good move and should be progressed as a matter of priority.

In summation, I have stuck it out for nearly 4 years so I'll stay onboard until the end of this summer when the outlook for CSS will be become much clearer.


----------



## tge oracle (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I forgot to include point 4 in my list of questions:

Are the Placements and Retail Cap raising underwritten , either partially or fully?


----------



## truevalue (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

TGE I feel quite confident that if you buy 500 shares on the market today you will only be entitled to 500 shares at 25c in the SPP. It is very similar to a rights issue in that regard.


----------



## tge oracle (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> TGE I feel quite confident that if you buy 500 shares on the market today you will only be entitled to 500 shares at 25c in the SPP. It is very similar to a rights issue in that regard.




I certainly hope you are correct Truevalue. It would certainly help existing investor confidence and support a reasonable share value if this were to be made known to the market and investors.


----------



## skyQuake (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> TGE I feel quite confident that if you buy 500 shares on the market today you will only be entitled to 500 shares at 25c in the SPP. It is very similar to a rights issue in that regard.




Then that would be a Rights Issue/Entitlement rather than a SPP. Most SPPs are capped at 15k and allow anyone regardless of holding to subscribe to that amount. Havent really seen any SPPs that limit people to _applying less_, but their allocation policy may be to that effect (more generous to bigger holders)


----------



## drlog (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

As far as I understand it, skyQuake is correct.

With CBA earlier this year, I sold all of my shares and bought them back at $26 for a nice stag profit (that was an SPP). Whereas with my RIO shares, I couldn't sell them because it was a rights issue at a ratio.

My personal option is that rights issues, as opposed to SPPs, are much fairer to all shareholders. However, I'll take an SPP as well 

I guess the problem with the rights issue is that if you have a huge holding and not much money, you wont go in to the rights issue all the way. I guess there would be more administration costs, perhaps?


----------



## suhm (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm just wondering does this fund their expansion plans with regards to their targetted tonnage for SBT? I'm not so sure it does, their presentation wasn't very clear in that regard, seemed more like a rehash and a very confusing slide with regards to capex and ongoing cashflow.


----------



## tge oracle (20 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



suhm said:


> I'm just wondering does this fund their expansion plans with regards to their targetted tonnage for SBT? I'm not so sure it does, their presentation wasn't very clear in that regard, seemed more like a rehash and a very confusing slide with regards to capex and ongoing cashflow.




As far as I can ascertain this funding is to pay out Rabo bank debt and fund pre-commercial production 25000+ fingerlings.
The presentation is very light on detail and it is what it doesn't say that concerns me. Basically, Rabo bank are transferring risk to shareholders with this raising as they obviously consider it to be to high.
I am sure they will be back for more funds next year to fund commercial scale production.


----------



## Basilica (21 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> As far as I can ascertain this funding is to pay out Rabo bank debt and fund  25000+ fingerlings.
> The presentation is very light on detail and it is what it doesn't say that concerns me. Basically, Rabo bank are transferring risk to shareholders with this raising as they obviously consider it to be to high.
> I am sure they will be back for more funds next year to fund commercial scale production.




I agree wiping out the Rabo bank debt is a good thing for CSS as i stated months ago. Concerning the other half of the cap raising it would be nice to know wha it is for. I had thought the previous cap raising several months ago was stated to fund the pre-commercial production stage. I do not recall any announcements of CSS being over budget on the pre-commercial production spending.  It would have been usefull if investors were not left to guess what the cash will be used for.


----------



## truevalue (22 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Another article in The Herald today

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/heres-the-catch-we-love-seafood-to-death-20091021-h929.html

Good to see the environmentalists getting more behind Aquaculture.

On the cashflow issue, firstly CSS is about to sign a new 3 year deal with Ridley that will give them much better credit terms, so that will give CSS more cash in the bank. Ridley basically got annoyed when CSS announced they would put the feed contract out to tender and reduced CSS credit terms from 180 days to 30 days leading to a $20m call on cash. That should be reversed in this new contract. Secondly I think Rabo will make a loan facility avaliable that will help CSS fund its SBT growout once the capital raising has been approved and the SBT are in the water (it is typical of bankers to offer you money when you no longer need it). If CSS does come back to raise more equity it will only be because 1) SBT has been sucessfully commercialised and 2) there is very positive economics for expanding production.
 Disclaimer:
This is all conjecture on my behalf based upon numerous discussion I have had in recent weeks with people familiar with the company (and I dont mean stockbrokers).


----------



## tge oracle (22 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Tks for the insight Truevalue.

I think the greatest concern I have now is that the Cap raising may not get up at least not the 50M hoped for.
The shares are very low in value and only marginally above issue price.
Investors will be hesitant to participate, particularly if it falls below issue price.


----------



## truevalue (22 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Tks for the insight Truevalue.
> 
> I think the greatest concern I have now is that the Cap raising may not get up at least not the 50M hoped for.
> The shares are very low in value and only marginally above issue price.
> Investors will be hesitant to participate, particularly if it falls below issue price.




$42million is done and was very well supported. They are irrevocable agreements if the raising gets the vote. $8m may be at risk for now. There may be some good news before the AGM on the 30 November with the spawn coming up and an agreement with Ridley.


----------



## smallfry (22 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Further to my last post...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/22/2721697.htm

makes for interesting thinking?


----------



## steveba5 (22 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

So what do you think will happen?  CSS shares go through the roof because they can farm SBT?

Or does the other side of the business collapse?


----------



## truevalue (23 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steveba5 said:


> So what do you think will happen?  CSS shares go through the roof because they can farm SBT?
> 
> Or does the other side of the business collapse?




What "other side of the business" do you mean?


----------



## tge oracle (27 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Today's announcement has me very concerned.

The mortality rate of YTK is above estimates. This will impact cash flow and, I suspect, will result in another loss this financial year.
They are now seeking $12M, previously $8M, from investors. IMO this is to cover the loss of revenue/profit from YTK sales.
I don't believe the quota for broodstock SBT is sufficient to cover mortality rates or commercial production targets in future years.

CSS will become totally reliant on Cap raisings for the foreseable future as YTK is unlikely to support expenditure.

Disclosure; I have substantilly reduced my exposure to CSS.
The above comments are my opinion only. I am not a financial adviser please DYOR.


----------



## steveba5 (27 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

And I thought it couldn't get any worse.....
I know CSS have made us current shareholders feel a bit better by offering us the same deal as they offered to the big players (25c shares) but it isn't looking too attractive now shares are trading around 26c today.

Its not really the same deal when you put it into perspective.  The discount on offer through the capital raising made shares around half the price of their trading value which at the time was about 54c.  For us to get the same deal(around half the current market value) then they will need to be offering them at around the 13cent mark.  

There's probably only a 10% chance I'll be participating now.  Down from 100% last week!


----------



## tge oracle (27 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

My chances of participating have reduced to zero Steveb5 as I made the decision to exit CSS entirely this afternoon.
It has been a very disappointing outcome after years of supporting and investing in CSS but I simply can not see where this is going from here. In the end I had to follow my instinct which has served me well over the many years I have been investing.
I believe there will be an opportunity for me to re-invest in CSS in the future if it can deliver on its goals but I do think this may be a long way off.

Good luck to all holders.
tge


Disclosure; I am no longer invested in CSS.


----------



## martinw@bigpond. (27 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have been following this stock for the pass few years. Sometimes having kicked myself for not investing when viewing the share price. Now of course I cannot see any reason for not entering with the minimum outlay. This will ensure I keep a firm eye on it and take advantage if and when the time comes. My advise to all bailers is to hold the minimum and wait - otherwise you will end up not tracking it and loose the poss of a come back sometime...maybe


----------



## drlog (29 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

At the moment, it's trading at 24c (yes, that is below 25c ).

With SPPs, they generally say something like "25c OR the weighted average price with an x% discount" so there is a chance that the SPP price will be lower than 25c depending on how it trades in the weeks prior to the SPP.

I still have a positive outlook for this company. I guess I see it as "high return, high risk" since they aren't making a profit at the moment.

If they pull off this SBT, there should be some good money to be made. I am still in.


----------



## clowboy (29 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yea, except in this case they didnt have a "or x days average", well at least as far as I know.
Which makes for a very interesting outcome.....no ones going to buy stock off market for more than they can on market


----------



## drlog (29 October 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, the announcement hasn't been made yet! I think it needs to be voted in at the AGM before the SPP can even go ahead.

I think there are rules regarding SPPs and I would expect that to be one of the rules set out by ASIC. Otherwise, like you say, you would have to be stupid to go into the SPP.


----------



## drlog (11 November 2009)

*Thoughts on expected return*

I was thinking about CSS this morning. Being a mathematician, I like the idea of expected return. I initially bought in to CSS about 6 months ago at about $0.50 with the view of it being a high risk and high return company.

To calculate expected return, we need the probability of them "making it" and the share price if they do "make it". This also assumes that if they fail, the company goes bankrupt and you lose everything 

These are the questions I propose to this forum:

What is the probability (0-100%) that they pull it off and start selling SBT in 2011/2012, making huge profits?
Also, if that happens, what will be the return?

Then we just multiply those two values and viola! Expected return 

So my guess would be around a 400% return over 2 years ($2.50 from my buy price of 50c) if they are successful. Also, considering they have come so far in SBT production, there is a 60% chance they will succeed (yes, I am a pessimist!). So, over 2 years, the expected return is 240% or (1+2.4)^(1/2)-1 = 84% return annually. That is why I think the benefit outweighs the risk.

Of course, I made those numbers up which is why I am asking you, what do you think?


----------



## skyQuake (11 November 2009)

*Re: Thoughts on expected return*



drlog said:


> I was thinking about CSS this morning. Being a mathematician, I like the idea of expected return. I initially bought in to CSS about 6 months ago at about $0.50 with the view of it being a high risk and high return company.
> 
> To calculate expected return, we need the probability of them "making it" and the share price if they do "make it". This also assumes that if they fail, the company goes bankrupt and you lose everything
> 
> ...




How did you arrive at this $2.50 figure? Are you basing that on expected earnings upon successful SBT? Also keep in mind equity has been diluted by the capital raising. EPS would have fallen too


----------



## drlog (11 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That's right, it is pure speculation!  I based it on a 400% gain.

There is no way we could possibly know for sure what the future holds. This is just a bit of fun.

What do you think a realistic value would be?


----------



## skyQuake (11 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Successful commercialisation is key, though it has many hurdles to go through.
Next SBT Spawing is Dec. If good spawning and survival rates are achieved, that would be a positive boost. If that fails then CSS is fairly screwed.

Would estimate around $0.60 if everything works out? Margins are low as they try to establish market sharel; It's burning though cash pretty fast maybe another cap raising in 2011.


----------



## derty (17 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A news piece in the Australian about Time magazine ranking the CSS tank bred tuna as the 2nd most important  invention of 2009 may bring a bit of attention to the stock. There was slightly elevated volume today. Will be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-breakthrough/story-fn3dxiwe-1225798777485

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933946,00.html


----------



## truevalue (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



skyQuake said:


> Successful commercialisation is key, though it has many hurdles to go through.
> Next SBT Spawing is Dec. If good spawning and survival rates are achieved, that would be a positive boost. If that fails then CSS is fairly screwed.
> 
> Would estimate around $0.60 if everything works out? Margins are low as they try to establish market sharel; It's burning though cash pretty fast maybe another cap raising in 2011.




CSS has been burning cash pretty fast as it has been growing its YTK business. In 2010 YTK will not grow and actually contribute a positive amount of cash to the business. If the SBT spawning is unsucessful CSS is hardly screwed with $25-30m in the bank and a profitable YTK with sales of $40m and positive margins.

Margins in SBT will be very high as CSS will be one of the few producers of SBT left in the world - actually of any bluefin tuna. Have you seen the latest Japanese GDP figures?

On conservative management estimates of $10/kg margin - which equates to a $20 selling price and $10 in costs, if by 2015 CSS are selling 10,000t of SBT and 4000t of kingfish then they will be making $85m in NPAT - 20cps on 15x gives $3.00 - a compound return of 60%pa over 5 years. 

The upside to these numbers is if CSS goes well beyond 10,000t and if the price is significantly above $20/kg (which it has been historically). Any price above $20 is pure profit.


----------



## drlog (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yeah, thats pretty much the way I see it, truevalue. You need to put a risk factor in there as they may fail with the SBT.

Like I said: High risk and very high return.

Should be fun to see what happens! 

Say they successfully spawn a commercial quantity in December this year (as the plan is at the moment). Does anyone know how long before they can start selling them at a fish market?


----------



## truevalue (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Yeah, thats pretty much the way I see it, truevalue. You need to put a risk factor in there as they may fail with the SBT.
> 
> Like I said: High risk and very high return.
> 
> ...




Absolutely drlog there is no doubt still a risk of failure. My own assessment of that risk has fallen dramatically since the events of May.

It will take 2 years to grow the initial batch to 30kg - sales in 2012


----------



## McCoy Pauley (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



derty said:


> A news piece in the Australian about Time magazine ranking the CSS tank bred tuna as the 2nd most important  invention of 2009 may bring a bit of attention to the stock. There was slightly elevated volume today. Will be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow.




Ended up being Time's second best invention for 2009 behind the Ares 1 rocket.

I don't have the credentials to post a link at this stage, but refer to today's online Australian.


----------



## skyQuake (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> Ended up being Time's second best invention for 2009 behind the Ares 1 rocket.
> 
> I don't have the credentials to post a link at this stage, but refer to today's online Australian.




http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26363515-29277,00.html

Can't seem to find the actual link to the Time article itself, can you post the link without the www. if you have it thanks.


----------



## steveba5 (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Does anyone know what the status is with the new SPP?  There was talk about a month ago of current shareholders getting the chance to purchase shares for 25cents capped at a $15,000 worth.
As a current shareholder, I've received nothing in the post and wouldn't know if I've missed the deadline or whether it has even begun?
With the share price back over 30cents I'm more than considerring buying more if I can get them for 25cents.


----------



## drlog (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That will be decided on the 30th of November at the AGM.

It will probably go ahead so you should get something in the post in early December.


----------



## skyQuake (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> That will be decided on the 30th of November at the AGM.
> 
> It will probably go ahead so you should get something in the post in early December.




Yeh, in fact the SPP ex-date is 20th Nov, so you can still get into the SPP. SPP closing date is 18th Dec.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



skyQuake said:


> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26363515-29277,00.html
> 
> Can't seem to find the actual link to the Time article itself, can you post the link without the www. if you have it thanks.




Try here, skyQuake:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1934027,00.html


----------



## truevalue (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

stock is up 21% today at 34.5c on some decent volume, 4.1m shares.

TGE Oracle will be buying back in before long.


----------



## steveba5 (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> stock is up 21% today at 34.5c on some decent volume, 4.1m shares.
> 
> TGE Oracle will be buying back in before long.




They're doing extremely well today.  Those that bought in at 25c would be rubbing their hands together for sure.  I bought in at 48c so it will be a little bit longer before I pop the champagne!
Lets hope Rabobank pulling the pin on CSS will be remembered as one of the biggest commercial blunders ever!


----------



## Fatcat (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Nice to see it finally doing something. Any idea the dates and details of the SPP? Any thoughts if it is worthwhile?

Cheers


----------



## nizora (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



skyQuake said:


> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26363515-29277,00.html
> 
> Can't seem to find the actual link to the Time article itself, can you post the link without the www. if you have it thanks.





Time hails tuna breeding breakthrough



_
A BREAKTHROUGH in breeding southern bluefin tuna in captivity has been named the world's second best invention of 2009 by Time magazine._

Clean Seas Tuna, the company that successfully spawned a tankful of southern bluefin tuna in Port Lincoln in March, said it was beaten only by NASA's Ares 1 rocket.

Time described the breeding breakthrough as possibly securing the future of an aquaculture industry for the endangered species.

"Others have gotten Pacific bluefin to spawn and grow in ocean cages, but by coaxing the notoriously fussy southern bluefin to breed in landlocked tanks, Clean Seas may finally have given the future of bluefin aquaculture legs (or at least a tail),'' Time wrote.

Clean Seas founder Hagen Stehr said his team and its collaborators were delighted by the international recognition and remained excited by the commercial potential for their breakthrough.

"Our achievement is a world first and a major stepping stone to presenting the world with a sustainable food resource for the future," Mr Stehr said in a statement today.
add news.com.au to iGoogle

Only last month international authorities agreed to cut the worldwide catch for southern bluefin tuna by 20 per cent to try to protect the species.


----------



## tge oracle (18 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> stock is up 21% today at 34.5c on some decent volume, 4.1m shares.
> 
> TGE Oracle will be buying back in before long.




Hi Truevalue, I've been a bit pre-occupied with other investements lately. Yes , CSS has had a good day for holders. As for myself, my position is unchanged despite the recent uptick I still intend to wait to see how things go over summer with SBT breeding/YTK sales etc. I am at the stage where I want to see runs on the board not just swings and misses!
You can rest assured,you will be the first to know if I re-invest. In the meantime good luck , I will continue to monitor CSS and check the thread from time to time.
Cheers
TGE


----------



## truevalue (25 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like CSS have locked up the $12m it was hoping to raise in the SPP by having the amount underwritten by stockbroker Pattersons. This means they will more than likely raise the full $54m and pay back their bank debt of $20m.

Pattersons have recently initiated on the stock with a $1.30 odd price target. I for one would be very happy to see that achieved.

A very action packed couple of months is expected with the AGM and the December spawning. Lets hope it is all hits and no misses!


----------



## drlog (25 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The way I understood it (please correct me if I am wrong) the SPP wont be decided until the AGM on the 30th. I would guess that there is a very high chance it will be voted in but it's not 100% certain yet.

I think the SPP will close on the 18th of Dec.

Anyway, yes, December looks like it is going to be a very exciting time for CSS. I hope all goes well with the spawning! :brille:


----------



## Ruincity (26 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The next two months are some of the biggest since CSS first closed the life cycle of SBT IMO.  

1. Tranche 2 approval. 
2. SPP approval. 
3. Appointment of Ex Santos John Ellice-Flint as chairman. 
4. SBT spawning. 

I read that point three is subject to Tranche 2 approval. 

It will be very interesting to see where the share price ends up after all this... EVEN if all is successful..  There are going to be a whole load of shares issued at 25c for both Tranche 2 and SPP and as much as a successful spawning will be party time I can't help but wonder - will it be enough!?!  

Insto's will get their hands on their holdings before any SPP shares get issued and they are currently sitting on 30% profit i'm tipping many will turn these over in the short term.  I'm very interested to see the final SPP offering, as exact details of this are all over the shop I feel. 

SPP will not be official until it is approved at the AGM. 
With reference to the company's official ASX announcement this is the timeline:

Monday, 19 October 2009 - Trading suspension lifted
Tuesday, 27 October 2009 - Settlement of Unconditional Placement
Wednesday, 28 October 2009 - Allotment of Unconditional Placement
Tuesday, 24 November 2009 - Record date – SPP offer
Monday, 30 November 2009 - Annual General Meeting, including vote on Conditional Placement and SPP
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 - SPP offer opens
Tuesday, 8 December 2009 - Settlement of Conditional Placement
Wednesday, 9 December 2009 - Allotment of Conditional Placement
5pm AEDT Friday, 18 December 2009 - SPP offer closes

Note that I also gleamed that.with respect to the SPP.

A) preference will be given to shareholders who were on the books before the shares went into a trading halt..  
B) The SPP shares will be issued no longer than 3 months!! after SPP completion. 

Anyway chart looks good for once and things are heading in the right direction - fingers crossed for all CSS holders.

Cheers,


----------



## steveba5 (26 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Excellent post Ruincity.

Do you think we'll find out if the results of spawning before we have to sign the dotted line for the SPP?

And can someone out there clarify the rules with SPP's in respect to closing dates because the same thing has happened to me with another company (ACL).  They announced an SPP yesterday and shares dropped instantly although theirs is only a 2shares for every 11 you have so they didn't drop as much as CSS.
Anyway, I'm wonderring why non shareholders can buy in quickly before  closing dates and still get access to these offers.  Whereas existing shareholders see their shares more than half in value (in the case of CSS) and still get the same privelidges as the non shareholders that buy in after the announcement.


----------



## Ruincity (26 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Steve,

Without going over all the fine details the majority of this is off the top of my head. 

"Do you think we'll find out if the results of spawning before we have to sign the dotted line for the SPP?"  
This is the no doubt the big question for us lowly retailers..  December has been earmarked as the month for SBT spawning.  You will note in my post that 18th of December would be when the SPP is forecast to close. 

I note that last year CSS announced to market on the 25th February that their broodstock had spawned.  I would have assumed that they would attempt this at the same time however my understanding is that CSS has chosen December as the Ocean water is warmer in SA at this time of year and more suitable for at sea growout.  In summary I think it is 50/50 whether we will hear during before or after the SPP close.  The SPP has been fully underwritten now so if the SPP is approved at the AGM CSS get the SPP $$ regardless. 

I can't help but think that IF there is positive news regarding spawning (which all must remember that this is by no means guaranteed) a timely release before shares are distributed to both SPP and Insto's could be a favourable scenario - but this is merely my opinion.  I am sure that they will release the news when it is available....

In response to your enquiries regarding SPP specifics, if approved at the AGM a proper offer will be sent in the mail to all CSS holders.  This will entail in full detail the answers to the bulk of your concerns/questions. 

As I said in my post earlier and this is from the CSS official market release: 
"The record date for the share purchase plan is Tuesday 24 November 2009 and, in the event of excess demand, preference will be given to shareholders who were registered as at Monday 19 October 2009."

So if that is in fact an element of the SPP AND the share price remains high holders before the capital raising carnage will benefit a little (and if things go really well with spawning etc) may do alright indeed.  

Who knows!!  My fingers are crossed I hold.


----------



## truevalue (30 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well all went as expected at the AGM. All resolutions past. Capital raising is done and the company can move on.

New Chairman, New CEO, new breeding tanks for SBT, cash on hand, broodstock ready to spawn. I am cautiously optimistic (lets hope we dont have to hear anyone else say that again)

Re the SPP I would not participate unless you understood and believed the story and wanted to hold the stock for a good while. Hoping to make a quick trade could just end in frustration and dare I say, anger. As well all know, when it come to the share price anything could happen. Whatever happens it is guaranteed to be exciting!


----------



## kenny (30 November 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the update on the AGM, truevalue.

Any insightful questions from the floor? Any further comments on the December spawning plans?

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## drlog (2 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am reading the SPP details now.

Looks like, if there is a scaleback and you have sold your current holding, you will be scaled back. It says: 







> Preference will be given to those Eligible shareholders who were shareholders immediately prior to the announcement of the SPP to ASX on 19 October 2009, those who have not disposed of any of their shareholding in the period between the announcement of the SPP and the allotment of the New Shares under the SPP and such other criteria as determined to be appropriate by the Directors in their absolute discretion.




So its probably not a good idea to sell your shares with the intention of buying them back at a guaranteed price of 25c.

Looks like the shares are issued on the 24th and fully underwritten.

Interestingly, there are very specific values that you can put in. With other SPPs recently, it has been $1,000 + $500 increments. With this SPP, its $2,000, $5,000, $7,000, $10,000 or $15,000.

Anyway, looks good to me


----------



## Airfireman (3 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Gday guys,

As a newbie could someone explain to me about the Share purchase Plan.

I received an application form today with the .25c issue price, a good offer and nice little earner if the current share price holds or increases by the issue date... so with this letter going out to share holders is it expected that the current SP will slide down to the issue price prior to the close date??

Thanks

Tim


----------



## drlog (4 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Generally the price wont go down but it might. My personal projection (and I am probably wrong ) is that the price will stay where it is until they announce the result of the SBT breeding that is going on this month.

Success = increase.
Failure = decrease.

If you want to increase your holding, the SPP is the best way to do it right now.

I'm looking forward to it


----------



## Bigukraine (4 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Airfireman said:


> Gday guys,
> 
> As a newbie could someone explain to me about the Share purchase Plan.
> 
> ...




Hello All,

Well if today is anything to go by then imo the ssp at .25c is not all that  great . the current sp is around the .27c-.28c at time of writing and what's to say that once the cheap share's hit the market dilution of sp will not continue?
  the timing of the spawn result's and release of share's will be critical and great if the news if good , if not ?????
p.s. If over sub. and you didn't have share's prior to 19th october you may not get a look in!
All the best to holders of css (I too hold) but imo will watch before jumping in!


----------



## Bigukraine (10 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Bigukraine said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Well if today is anything to go by then imo the ssp at .25c is not all that  great . the current sp is around the .27c-.28c at time of writing and what's to say that once the cheap share's hit the market dilution of sp will not continue?
> the timing of the spawn result's and release of share's will be critical and great if the news if good , if not ?????
> ...




Well,
This is one time i wish i was not right.I know the mkt is flat at the moment but when a company start's to dictate in the maner that css did with their cap rasing this is what happens.
As we all know you can get css at .25c now (if patient) so now all we have to look forward to is the spawn results. 
P.S. to all who took up the ssp hope it helped to dilute the price of your current holding and fingers crossed for all of us !


----------



## drlog (11 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That's funny, there have been some trades at 24.5 cents. So for the individual, it is better to buy on market rather than go through the SPP! 

The SPPs I have seen before had a mechanism which stopped that from happening by using a weighted average price. That would have made a lot of sense right now!

I was thinking about getting $5000 worth in the SPP but I can save myself $80 if I buy on market... 

It isn't that bad for the company because the SPP is underwritten.


----------



## steveba5 (14 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Phew!  Lucky I didn't send send off my acceptance for 15,000 shares at 25c.
I can't see the SPP being oversubscribed now!!  Last trade was 24.5.

Compared to November, there hasn't been much news at all regarding CSS.  Lets hope no news is good news.

I thought the 25c prices was way undervalued and its beyond me that the world seems to think these shares are only worth 25c???  Giving CSS the benefit of the doubt is starting to wear a little thin I have to say!!  

But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for bit longer!


----------



## drlog (14 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steveba5 said:


> Phew!  Lucky I didn't send send off my acceptance for 15,000 shares at 25c.
> I can't see the SPP being oversubscribed now!!  Last trade was 24.5.
> 
> Compared to November, there hasn't been much news at all regarding CSS.  Lets hope no news is good news.
> ...




Well, the last trade was at 25c according to Commsec. Anyway, you may be able to pick them up for 24.5c if you are lucky 

Considering that there has been no "bad news", you are right! The price of 25c is undervalued. There is some risk though, it all depends on their SBT spawn results.

Look at it this way: They were trading around 50c or so and they have doubled the number of shares. Effectively, the shares are worth "half as much". There is a problem with the logic though. Because of the cap raising, the book value of the company has increased greatly so they should be worth more than 25c. We shall see what happens! My 24.5c order is still in market and if that fails, I will go in on the SPP.

Let's hope the spawn goes well


----------



## Sdajii (14 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It is very difficult to judge what a company like this is worth, since you are investing in probable future profits rather than current profits/assets. Absolute best case scenario would be the company making incredible profits within a few months. Best reasonable scenario would be making extreme profits in 15 months. Very likely is profit in 15 months and brilliant profit in 29 months or so and if nothing bad happens, it is almost certain they will make brilliant profits in the next 3-4 years. Of course, like with any company, if things go badly it might all crash down. With all that being the case it is obviously extremely difficult to work out exactly what they are worth at the moment, but what is certain is that if you invest now and things go well you will make spectacular profits at some point in the next five years, the current price is an absolute bargain. That's a long way off for most people, without precise profit predictions or the possibility of a guaranteed time frame, which is putting people off. If I had more available capital I would be buying more of this one right now while the price is so low. The share price has come down because of the dilution, but more than it 'should' have (as said, they now have a lot more funds). With the share price being so low, the SPP will almost certainly be undersubscribed so the dilution will be less than expected, meaning the current share price represents excellent value in my humble opinion. A brilliant time to jump on board if you don't mind a bit of a risk and are keen to stick it out for more than the short term. The potential is there for incredible profits once production in commercial quantities begins, probably in 1-3 years.

Once this thing gets to the stage where they have the infrastructure built to handle commercial quantities, it will be such a 'media sexy' story; everyone is talking about sustainable food production, the ocean running out of fish, etc etc, and Southern Bluefin Tuna is one of the world's most high profile, highly sought after and top quality fish. It is also now found only in small numbers in the wild. This one has everything required to get massive attention once things kick off IMO, and once it makes a real blip on the radar it will become very hot. Considering the recent SP of around 50c and no bad news, the dilution should only have brought the price down to around 35-40c and even that represented excellent value (in my humble opinion).

Yes, I hold (I'd be hypocritical if I didn't after saying the above!), do your own research, etc.


----------



## jscanman (14 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Ive been watching this one fall for quite some time now.
I also think this stock is well undervalued at the moment which represents a good opportunity to buy. I'm looking forward to seeing how this one plays out ...


----------



## tge oracle (15 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I thought I would provide a brief summary since my last posting

Firtsly, it is very hard to value CSS by any methodology at present. I had worked on valuations when I understood where they were with YTK sales and SBT propogation but I am no longer sure of what has been actually achieved in recent months.
The cap raising report highlights the growth rate of a "modest" number of SBT juveniles of 2kg over 200days. By my reckoning this translates to an optimum marketable size SBT( Sashimi ) taking 3 years to reach 20-30kg which is longer than I had been expecting.
Another question I have is what was the mortality rate of the juvenile SBT. They make no mention of this in any reports. I suspect it may be quite high which brings me to some other considerations.

1. They need to achieve spawning soon to have any chance of achieving their goal of 25K SBT as it will be essential for the fish to have reached sufficient size to transfer to sea pens before winter.

2. A recent article in the Port incoln times suggests they are struggling to have sufficent tanks ready in time for spawning and may have to rely on temporary tanks. This could lead to a higher mortality rate.

3. They will need a large number of YTK eggs to feed the SBT larvae. This could impact the YTK program and ,hence, sales.


I will continue to monitor the progress but I do believe the blue sky potentail for CSS has been lost. They needed to perform in accordance with their prospectus dated 2005. Had that been achieved they would be in SBT commercial production now. They are 5 years and many cap raisings( additional shares ) behind projection and in reality are looking at another 3-4years for the revenue to start rolling in, if they can breed SBTin sufficient quantities.

I am waiting on the sidelines for now as there is still a very long road to travel.


----------



## Sdajii (17 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They didn't have a commercial number of babies, they only had a very small number, so did not try to raise them in the sea cages, they kept them in fish tanks so they could take photographs etc.

They grow amazingly quickly and the main plan is to sell them within a few months of hatching. Hatch them, get them into the onshore tanks briefly (1-2 weeks if I remember correctly?) then into the offshore enclosures for another 3-4 months (if I remember correctly?) then off to Japan. I might be slightly out with the timeframe, but not hugely. It only takes them two months to get to over 2kg, which is the size the European market prefers. It isn't much longer than that to get up to 5-10kg, which is not the ideal 20-30kg as preferred by Japanese sushi restaurants, but is still excellent and will fetch a great price.

I share your concern about the timeframe of getting the raising tanks (onshore tanks for babies) ready in time for this season, but they will be ready for next season. To me it looks like this was a bit of a planning blunder, and may affect this year's numbers, but this year is still only planned to be subcomercial, it is still a R&D 'getting it right' year. If a profit is made this year it is just a bonus. What is really wanted this season is to get a few thousand fish to saleable size to completely nail the methods and say "Yes! We can do it, there is your proof, now we just need to set things up to do it large scale". It doesn't really matter whether they manage 5,000 or 25,000 this season, it's mostly a matter of demonstrating that they are able to do it. Then next year it is just a matter of going through the motions and doing what they know they can do on a commercial scale.

What I see from CSS is a brilliant business plan run by highly capable aquaculturists with shocking publicity ability. They make the stupid mistake of promising best case scenario. So, when things progressed quite well rather than off the scale brilliantly, investors were disappointed. If they had been more realistic with their promises people would be very impressed with the progress so far. Unfortunately (or fortunately if you haven't already jumped on board) that hasn't been the only PR mistake they have made. Fortunately they seem to have made a change or two on the senior board which should improve that situation, so *hopefully* they won't make any more stupid mistakes in terms of what they report to whom and when.

You are right, they have not progressed as quickly as they implied they would. About three years ago they implied that they were at the stage they were now at (which they would have been if they had had the incredible luck of hitting no obstacles). The main obstacles are now overcome. A few thousand animals to fingerling/juvenile stage and it will be demonstrated that the future is very bright. I don't think the blue sky potential has been missed, not at all, I think it is just coming in a realistic (ie, very good) timeframe rather than best case scenario timeframe.

Spawning this season is the next step, though I think success there is almost a sure thing. From there I am guessing we will see a less than impressive larvae survival rate, but only because of the lack of infrastructure, which will be built slightly too late (ready for next year). This is not really critical though, it just means we might be seeing a trial batch of 5-10 thousand fish rather than 25 thousand. Then they go to the offshore tank, and the real test will be carried out - seeing how quickly and cost effectively they get up to salable ( greater than 2kg) size. That will tell us the potential. If the potential is good, we know it is blue skies (unless an unlikely disaster strikes), it is just a matter of waiting. I can't see it being later than the end of January before we know for sure whether this one is a winner or not (or later if they decide not to bother announcing it sooner!  )


----------



## steveba5 (18 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hey guys,

Of my portfolio, CSS is by far the largest parcel.  My average about 40c so I'm down quite a bit.  Not too worried, but as a longterm shareholder I would have liked to have been a little more protected in terms of the SP caused by the SPP.  But $hit happens and luckily I don't need to sell quickly.

For months now we've been talking about spawning in December.  Well we're almost 2/3 through december.  Any idea of an announcement date or when CSS are planning to imitate "ideal" conditions for spawning?

I haven't yet taken up the offer of 25c shares.  That will be a last second decision!  I don't like to say it but I think there may be a chance of SP dropping to below 25c again.

SteveB


----------



## sashimi (18 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

FINAL REPORT
FP 5: Quality of Life and Management of Living Resources
Shared-cost RTD Project
Project full title:
Reproduction of the Bluefin Tuna in Captivity -
feasibility study for the domestication of Thunnus
thynnus
Project Acronym: REPRO-DOTT



http://mazarron.mu.ieo.es/publicaciones/REPRODOTT Final Report.pdf

T


----------



## oldblue (18 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

No doubt all you CSS fans have seen this article by Robert Gottliebsen.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-sinker-pd20091216-YRQU2?OpenDocument&src=kgb

I don't hold, yet.


----------



## nizora (20 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



oldblue said:


> No doubt all you CSS fans have seen this article by Robert Gottliebsen.
> 
> http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-sinker-pd20091216-YRQU2?OpenDocument&src=kgb
> 
> I don't hold, yet.




Ellice-Flint's new breed


When Nicole Kidman joined other film stars in pressing for a ban on catching wild northern blue fin tuna, she probably didn't realise that she was helping to foster an amazing Australian technological breakthrough which will have global significance. 

Over-fishing has caused the northern blue fin tuna to become close to an endangered species but the southern ocean tuna fishing quotas have been increased. 

Both Europe and Japan have enormous fishing industries and both governments have each spent more than $100 million trying to develop ways to breed tuna in captivity. But in Australia the tiny listed South Australian based Clean Seas Tuna appears to have succeeded where the huge research projects in the northern hemisphere have failed. 

Clean Seas Tuna came into prominence when it was awarded a Time Magazine technology award. But what caught my attention was when John Ellice-Flint, the man who devised the Santos exploration strategies which transformed the company, chose Clean Seas Tuna as his first public company directorship after resigning as Santos CEO last year. And Clean Seas Tuna certainly needs the skills of John Ellice-Flint. 

Founder Hagen Stehr did a wonderful job working out how to breed tuna in captivity, but the company became plagued with misfortune. Clean Seas Tuna developed its Kingfish breeding first but this produced much higher tonnages than expected and the company could not market its stocks. 

The Rabo Bank threatened to pull the plug. With Ellice-Flint as chairman, Clean Seas Tuna is raising in excess of $50 million with a share issue that will pay off the bank and leave the group with about $15 million in cash. In 2010, Clean Seas Tuna is looking to breed about 25,000 small tuna fish. Some will be sold onto the market but others may be fed for up to three years in the tuna pots lying idle in Spencer Gulf off South Australia. 

The larger fish will yield much higher sums. The company is being approached by fishing enterprises from both Europe and Japan who want to use the Clean Seas techniques under licence. It's a long shot, but Clean Seas may have the technology that saves the world tuna industry and enables wild tuna to recover. 

That’s exactly what Nicole Kidman wants to happen. However, the market is nervous and Clean Seas Tuna has fallen back to 24 cents – below the 25 cent issue price. John Ellice-Flint remembers when no one believed him at Santos – now it's happening again.


----------



## steveba5 (21 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Morning all,

Its monday at 9:20 am, the first day after the SPP closed.  SP is hovering around 24.5 to 25.  There is only one seller currently selling at 25 and from memory earlier this morning they were trying to offload over 350,000 at 25.
Slowly they're going at 25 and it wouldn't surprise me if they if they keep going until the SP goes to 25c.  
I didn't participate in the SPP but I have a big order in at 24.5c  I think we're in for an exciting day.  What is everyone else doing with this one?


----------



## Sdajii (21 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I can't see any particular change this morning relative to last week. If I had to bet (and I suppose that's what I am doing come to think of it!) I would say they will go up over the next month or two, but I don't expect any massive outbreaks in the next few days. Spawning results might cause some excitement, and potentially media attention, which I suppose could potentially throw this thing skyward in the short term.

If you want to buy a whole heap of them at 24.5c, why didn't you buy into the SPP? The difference in price is tiny and you would be helping to fund the infrastructure? Or weren't you holding before the record date? I decided against buying into the SPP. As much as I would like to have helped out, I didn't have the funds easily available to increase my holding by $15k and didn't want to bother with a smaller amount. It seems a bit sad that they didn't release spawning results earlier, which would have pushed the price up a bit and made the SPP more attractive. I would have put in a bid for $15k worth at the last minute if they had done so.

To be honest, the fact that they didn't release spawning updates before the SPP closing date makes me concerned that spawning hasn't gone so well... I might actually call one or two of my contacts and see if I can dig up any news.


----------



## steveba5 (21 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sdajii,

I share your thoughts and I was close to going with 60,000 through the SPP but my gut feeling was to hold off and monitor things a little longer.  I've held CSS for about 8 months now and am treading carefully as I'm currently down 51%

I'm a bit concerned with the spawning results too.  Had they had positive news the SPP would have been much more popular and I'm interested to see how successful it was.  
We're now more than 2/3 of the way through december and we haven't heard a thing in regards to spawning.  Lets hope no news is good news.


----------



## Sdajii (21 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

One thing this company seems particularly bad at is keeping the shareholders informed. In my opinion this has severely undervalued them. Sometimes they just don't bother releasing information and leave everyone in the dark, or arguably worse still, they release price sensitive information to the media before telling anyone else!

With a situation like this, where we are currently investing in future profits, it is extremely difficult to estimate the current value of the company, which leaves the share price very subjective and thus vulnerable to vague opinion, which is very adversely affected by poor communication with investors. This probably makes them brilliant value before the fish are going to market, but it is poor form on their part. This does seem to have changed...

Earlier today I tried to contact my usual sources for information, generally they are extremely productive and I can find out just about everything I want, but today I have drawn a complete and total blank! Everyone I have spoken to tells me that they either can not tell me because it is price sensitive, or they can not find out themselves because those who know are refusing to give anything away. Quite clearly an announcement is not too far away, I will sit and hold until then. If I had the free funds I would be buying more right now. I'm fairly sure that no news in the form of "There's news but our lips are zipped" is good news.

They do seem to have learned their lesson about not releasing information inappropriately, but you would have thought they would have been a bit more tactful with the timing of the SPP and spawning announcement. Perhaps they figured that because the SPP was underwritten anyway, they had as much money as they needed, and once they showed their cards the share price would go high enough for their next fund raising to be done significantly higher than 25c, so, better to discourage people from buying new shares at 25c now when they can get significantly more money later.

Considering that, perhaps the owners consider the shares to currently be undervalued. Either that or the spawning was a failure! Assuming spawning went well, things are looking good and I am cautiously optimistic.


----------



## drlog (21 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I suspect that they wanted to be fair to all shareholders - that is, not release any information before all of the capital raising had finished. The share price will hover around the 25c mark until they release information about the spawn.

Hopefully it all went well


----------



## truevalue (22 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> One thing this company seems particularly bad at is keeping the shareholders informed. In my opinion this has severely undervalued them. Sometimes they just don't bother releasing information and leave everyone in the dark, or arguably worse still, they release price sensitive information to the media before telling anyone else!
> 
> With a situation like this, where we are currently investing in future profits, it is extremely difficult to estimate the current value of the company, which leaves the share price very subjective and thus vulnerable to vague opinion, which is very adversely affected by poor communication with investors. This probably makes them brilliant value before the fish are going to market, but it is poor form on their part. This does seem to have changed...
> 
> ...




I dont think you need to worry. When these things spawn they will not muck around telling the market. I think like all babies these SBT will come in their own time.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (23 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Share purchase plan undersubscribed to the tune of 6,558,000 shares.  Paterson Securities fully underwrote the SPP so they pick up the lot, I imagine.  Interestingly, they have a very favourable long-term price of $1.33/share.


----------



## Sdajii (23 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> Share purchase plan undersubscribed to the tune of 6,558,000 shares.  Paterson Securities fully underwrote the SPP so they pick up the lot, I imagine.  Interestingly, they have a very favourable long-term price of $1.33/share.




Given the current share price, I was very surprised to see the SPP mostly subscribed. I would have guessed much less than half of the new shares on offer would have been taken, but there you go, more people wanted them than I expected.

I'd be happy with $1.33 right now! I think Christmas will come before we get a spawn announcement  All the same, I think anyone buying in at around 25c right now is going to be very happy during the first quarter of 2010.


----------



## steveba5 (23 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Very interesting.  With the massive drop in the SP upon announcement of the SPP I'm surprised so many people took up the SPP.  But then again it also shows how many of us believe in this venture.  I would have expected the SP to have risen above the current level since the SPP closed.

Lets hope santa delivers us some great spawning results and the SP starts moving towards Patterson's estimate.  For the last few months we've been waiting for the announcement in december and we're more than 3 quaters december so any day now I hope!  
Shareholders such as myself feel a bit hard done by as we purchased when the SP was over 50c.  Its really making my portfolio look poor!  
I've been checking every forum I know for information but nothing is coming up.  They're doing well to even hide the news...even if there is no news they're not even telling us that either!!


----------



## sashimi (24 December 2009)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 11 P.M. EDT, October 6th, 2009

CROATIAN TUNA FARM TAKES A MAJOR STEP TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE FARMING OF ATLANTIC BLUEFIN TUNA
ZADAR, CROATIA, OCTOBER 6TH, 2009:

A vital step towards closed life cycle farming of the commercially valuable Atlantic Blue Fin Tuna (NBT) was achieved in the Adriatic farming sites of Kali Tuna, a Croatian tuna farming company and the laboratories of Aquaculture at Institute of Oceanography and Fisheries (IOF) in Split. Marine scientists at IOF have confirmed that gametogenesis was completed and a number of tuna eggs were spawned in cages off the coast of Croatia.


http://www.kali-tuna.com/contact/news/atlantic-blue-fin-tuna-breeding-in-croatia/


----------



## nizora (4 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 11 P.M. EDT, October 6th, 2009
> 
> CROATIAN TUNA FARM TAKES A MAJOR STEP TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE FARMING OF ATLANTIC BLUEFIN TUNA
> ZADAR, CROATIA, OCTOBER 6TH, 2009:
> ...



Croatian Tuna Farm Takes A Major Step Towards Sustainable Farming ...Kali Tuna grows its fish for a longer period than most other farms. ..... America's farm animals produce 10 times the waste ... http://lnk.ms/1QtsG ...
blog.taragana.com/.../croatian-tuna-farm-takes-a-major-step-towards-sustainable-farming-of-atlantic-blue-fin-tuna-7039/ 

Tried to open the webpages, unfortuntely they have probably been taken out.


----------



## nizora (4 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Croatian Tuna Farm Takes A Major Step Towards Sustainable Farming ...Kali Tuna grows its fish for a longer period than most other farms. ..... America's farm animals produce 10 times the waste ... http://lnk.ms/1QtsG ...
> blog.taragana.com/.../croatian-tuna-farm-takes-a-major-step-towards-sustainable-farming-of-atlantic-blue-fin-tuna-7039/
> 
> Tried to open the webpages, unfortuntely they have probably been taken out.




Finally ,managed to open,and here it is:

Press Release
KALI TUNA DOO, KALI CROATIA

Contact: Karl Petur Jonsson Phone: +354 664 0000 Email: karl@atlantis-ltd.com
KALI TUNA D.O.O. Put Vele Luke bb 23 272 Kali CROATIA

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 11 P.M. EDT, October 6th, 2009

CROATIAN TUNA FARM TAKES A MAJOR STEP TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE FARMING OF ATLANTIC BLUEFIN TUNA

ZADAR, CROATIA, OCTOBER 6TH, 2009:

A vital step towards closed life cycle farming of the commercially valuable Atlantic Blue Fin Tuna (NBT) was achieved in the Adriatic farming sites of Kali Tuna, a Croatian tuna farming company and the laboratories of Aquaculture at Institute of Oceanography and Fisheries (IOF) in Split. Marine scientists at IOF have confirmed that gametogenesis was completed and a number of tuna eggs were spawned in cages off the coast of Croatia. 

In the experiment over 800 pieces of brood stock were kept in a special cage since the spring of 2006. The fish spawned successfully in the cage during the early summer of 2009. Most of the eggs were released naturally into the water, whilst a number of eggs were collected and later successfully hatched in a Split- based laboratory. 

ATLANTIC BLUE FIN TUNA BREEDS IN CAPTIVITY 

During the past few years the future of the NBT has become bleak, with excessive catch of the coveted fish which claims up to $25(US) a pound on the Tsukiji fish market in Tokyo. 

The key to sustainability in the farming of tuna is to domesticate the NBT by creating a ‘closed life cycle’ farming process, as previously has been done with salmon and other species. This process involves breeding the fish in captivity and growing it on underutilized, small pelagic fish. Scientists and tuna farmers in Europe, Japan and Australia have for years tried to achieve hatching in captivity, a task made especially difficult by the lack of knowledge of the mating habits of the tuna. Some success has been recorded to date, by Kinki University in Japan and Clean Seas Tuna in Australia, in each case in artificial, controlled environments. 

“The fact that the captive tuna has spawned without hormones or human assistance makes this a unique event.” says Dr. Ivan Katavic, former assistant minister of fisheries in Croatia, currently the Head of Laboratory at the Institute of Oceanography and Fisheries. “Our project was designed to break the code of the NBT’s reproduction habits. We aimed to create a closed life cycle for the farming of the species and relieve the pressure on the existing fish in the world’s oceans. This result is a significant step in that direction. The combination of the farming techniques of Kali Tuna and the location of their cages are the key to our 

ATLANTIC BLUE FIN TUNA BREEDS IN CAPTIVITY achievement. Kali Tuna grows its fish for a longer period than most other farms. The combination of good husbandry and unique site conditions allows Kali Tuna to meet physiological requirements of brood stock to complete reproductive cycle in captivity.” 

Oli Valur Steindorsson, is the Executive Chairman of Kali Tuna. Born in the fishing village of Akranes in Iceland, Steindorsson spent a year in Tokyo as an exchange student, studying the Japanese language and culture. He entered the Japanese seafood business as an intern at the age of 17 and established his own seafood trading company a decade later. Steindorsson stated, “We maintain a clear focus on creating a sustainable, closed lifecycle farming process, producing top of the line, healthy seafood with the least environmental impact possible. The natural circumstance of the event furthermore creates a hope of an extremely cost effective way to farm the fish.”

Further reading, including pictures and biographies of Dr. Katavic and Mr. Steindorsson: www.kali-tuna.com


----------



## nizora (4 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 11 P.M. EDT, October 6th, 2009
> 
> CROATIAN TUNA FARM TAKES A MAJOR STEP TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE FARMING OF ATLANTIC BLUEFIN TUNA
> ZADAR, CROATIA, OCTOBER 6TH, 2009:
> ...




Some interesting info about the company:

Kali Tuna

_*In 1996 Kali tuna was established by two men returning back to Croatia from Australia, with their Australian and Japanese associates*_. The techniques, knowledge and skills required for this type of operation were passed on from the Australian experience, and overtime expanded and greatly improved. 

Location 

Kali, a small town on the Croatian island of Ugljan, just opposite to Zadar, is one of the most successful fishing communities in the Mediterranean. The Zadar archipelago, situated along Croatia’s Central Adriatic coast, contains one-third of all populated Croatian islands. Of these, the island of Ugljan is among the most populated. On the island of Ugljan is the community of Kali, linked to the principle mainland town of Zadar by regular ferry service. 

About 80% of the working population is involved in fishing or related activities. The exceptionally high percentage of the local population involved in the fishing industry is owed to the area’s geography and history. Originally, the people had little choice but to fish for their own food requirements. Naturally enough, this initial activities were limited to their familiar local waters. Today, however, boats captained and crewed by proud men from Kali fish not only all over the Adriatic Sea, but also as far as the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. There are, in fact, more professional fishermen from Kali than from any other place along Croatian coast and this activity has spawned numerous essential support activities””such as boat, net maintenence and repair, and also fish processing””that occupy island people from the other villages that dot these islands. 

Major achievements 

Kali has become also a pioneer in Croatian aquaculture. In the 1970s, CENMAR, the largest company for aquaculture in Croatia today, established a farm in Lamjana. This was a key event; it showed that Kali people not only have the knowledge and passion to hunt fish, but to farm them, as well. And it was in 1996 that the first tuna rearing company””Kali Tuna, d.o.o.””began its tuna-fattening operations in the vicinity of their home island. 

The Kali Tuna story is one with a fascinating history when you consider it as the pioneer of tuna farming within the Mediterranean sea, the company has accomplished a great deal since beginning its operations, the fact that it has increased its initial annual export of bluefin tuna from 30 T per year to 1400 T in past few years is an overwhelming achievement. 

The Team 

As for the number of employees, that figure has increased several times, starting with as little as six employees we have grown into a company which now employs some 120 individuals.
The company has also spawned a wide range of up and downstream employment, which is reflected through the supplying of small fresh pelagic fish to the tuna farms (used for wet feed), the required transport of essential materials to the farms, and of course, the supplying of the live tuna on which fattening operations currently depend.


----------



## Sdajii (4 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Interesting, nizora. Do you think they've obtained a few secrets from Cleanseas?

It has been good to see a bit more positive movement in CSS lately. Missing the SPP now seems a bit of a shame... oh well, I suppose lack of an easily available $15k was my main reason for not buying more anyway. Well done to those who did take part.

It seems strange that we still don't have any December spawn announcement, and CSS still seems to have zipped lips. I still can't get a word out of them or anyone close.


----------



## sashimi (5 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This Is an extremely good general knowledge article that gives detailed insight into tuna ranching all around the world


assets.panda.org/.../thetunaranchingintelligenceunitnovember2005specialupdatededition.


----------



## sashimi (5 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Some thing went astray with the first post and could not connect with the article So I have tried again


assets.panda.org/.../thetunaranchingintelligenceunitnovember2005specialupdatededition.pdf

If you are unable to open or access this let me know and i will see what i can do.


----------



## omac (5 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

not working for me, I just get a 404 

I googled the link and managed to find a 2004 report from WWF but not the 2005 one


----------



## sashimi (8 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I hope this is better.

I now count 8 different bluefin breeding projects.
One in Australia 
Two in Japan 
One in Korea
One in Cadiz Spain
One in Croatia
At least one in Cartegena Spain
At least one in Malta

My opinion is with the success of spawning i expect the number of start ups to maybe double in the next 12 months  

http://www.futunablue.com



http://assets.panda.org/downloads/t...enceunitnovember2005specialupdatededition.pdf


----------



## sashimi (8 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

News From Japan

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news...g_news&cate_img=35.jpg&cate_rss=news_Business

News from korea

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/Features/2009/09/15/20/0801000000AEN20090915004000320F.HTML


----------



## McCoy Pauley (12 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

*Still* waiting for an announcement on the results of the spawn.  Something seems to be very fishy about this (no pun intended).

Disc - no stock owned, but is on watchlist and a couple of friends have stakes in the company.


----------



## Sdajii (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> *Still* waiting for an announcement on the results of the spawn.  Something seems to be very fishy about this (no pun intended).
> 
> Disc - no stock owned, but is on watchlist and a couple of friends have stakes in the company.




Tell me about it. I have been waiting for a spawn announcement for over a month, as many people have. It is difficult to imagine them not having spawned unless the brood stock died, and presumably if something severe happened they would have no choice but to talk about it immediately (well, the other choice being roasted).

It is difficult to understand why as of mid January there has been no December spawning announcement - by now we should have updates on how the larvae are going. The last time I had the chance to talk to someone from the senior board of Cleanseas I told them of investor frustration at their lack of keeping them informed, and was told that they thought they were very prompt with putting out news. He also thanked me for my feedback and said he would take it on board. I can't say that I am happy with their silence. Oh, actually, that was the second last time. The last time I spoke to someone I couldn't get a word out of them. Previously that person had answered every question I had in more detail than I even wanted.

If their track record is anything to go on, things are probably going well and they have either just not bothered to say anything or they have decided in their incredible wisdom to treat their investors (the people they are going to be asking money from) like mushrooms. Probably a brilliant investment, but they aren't doing anything for their popularity. 

Perhaps they are even playing silly buggers. Stalling the announcement may get people nervous, the price can drop, they can say "Oh, the spawning was brilliant and we have lots of juveniles in the sea cages now, things are looking good for a big harvest" and they can then say "Check out just how awesome we are, our share price galloped to the moon". Worse, there could be insider trading... "Let's make the share price drop, buy up big, then announce not just the spawn, but the progress of the juveniles, all at once!".

Hopefully it's nothing like the above, but when they stay quiet for so long you can't help wondering why.


----------



## oldblue (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They have an obligation to release market sensitive news so we are entitled to assume that there's nothing bad lurking out there, particularly given the recent addition of highly regarded, experienced directors to the board.

Disc: Not holding.


----------



## Bigukraine (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi, Sdaji and other CCS followers,
The volumes seem to be constant on a day by day basis so if they are trying to muck around with the market they are hidding it well. definatly worrying times for all holders but thats the nature of the game. I must admit that my finger nails are chewed down waiting for the ann. and this is the first share that i have placed a stop loss on . Oh well waiting with all of you !:cuckoo:


----------



## Sdajii (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



oldblue said:


> *They have an obligation to release market sensitive news* so we are entitled to assume that there's nothing bad lurking out there, particularly given the recent addition of highly regarded, experienced directors to the board.
> 
> Disc: Not holding.




Someone tell them that! It applies to good and bad news, does it not? It is annoying when there is a situation where one way or another, news exists but we are not being told anything. It is mid January. How did the spawning go? Tell us for Pete's sake!

Big: I doubt they would actually be playing insider trading games, and as you point out, if they are, it is on a fairly small scale. I honestly doubt that is their reason, and it is quite normal for them to delay news for some stupid reason, and this along with promising/predicting best case scenario rather than realistic outcomes (which is what has happened, which is still excellent) has dropped their share price to an undervalued level in my opinion. I hoped the changes to the board might make announcements more timely and communication in general more appropriate, but apparently I was wrong. This is the first stock in my own portfolio I have ever put a stop loss on too, just in case the news is bad (though it most likely isn't). One thing is for sure, they can't afford to keep pissing investors off, and if they are withholding bad news they are going to see a massive drop in share price, making future fund raising very difficult and expensive. I think I have said this before, but the board is apparently dominated by people who know a lot about aquaculture but pitifully little about investor relations. People won't care (as much) about that if tuna are being sold to Japan and Europe at massive profits, but fundraising won't be easy in the meantime if they muck around like this.

The above makes this an underrated and undervalued stock in my opinion, but for the reasons which make it so, you have to put up with poor communication if you hold. We won't be so fussed about that when the fish are being sold and the profits are coming in, but in the mean time


----------



## omac (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It's quite possible that spawning is still going or only recently finished. I believe the spawning last year went for 35 days? So even if spawning started early December they would have only finished days ago.  I remember reading an announcement for spawning earlier (november?), but with the artificial system they are using they may have flexibility in when they induce spawning, to time it with facility development etc.

Possibly they are waiting for more definite numbers etc, rather than a rushing announcement and not getting the data accurate, which I dare say people would be more annoyed with.

Who knows, surely can't be too much longer to wait. 

I hold.


----------



## truevalue (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

No spawn yet I'm afraid. Management are waiting with bated breath, as are the rest of us.

When (if) they spawn you can be certain they will announce it. Last time they spawned on a full moon. Unfortunately the next full moon isn't until 30 January.


----------



## Sdajii (13 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

truevalue: How do you know there has been no spawn yet? If this is the case, surely it would be newsworthy. The last full moon was new year's eve (incidentally, a 'blue moon', ie, second full moon within a calendar month) and if they want to spawn on a full moon and didn't spawn in either of the December full moons, that's a pretty serious worry, and by now they should be frantically using hormone inducement. Late January is an unfortunate time to be spawning, even in a particularly hot summer.

omac: I was thinking the same thing, but by mid January it's getting pretty late. The most optimistic I can be is that since they were rushing to get the larvae rearing facilities constructed in time, and we are having a particularly hot summer, perhaps they wanted a late spawn (so that they can utilise the new infrastructure and have the luxury of warm water lasting further into the year than usual) and have managed to induce the later spawning somehow. I must admit, I am getting nervous. In the long term I still think CSS is a winner, but I might be out very soon.


----------



## truevalue (14 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I share your frustration.

I know there has been no spawn because 1) they have not announced one; and 2) persons familiar with the matter have confirmed no spawn yet.

They have made no announcements because there is nothing to announce. A spawning event is very significant and will be announced when it happens.


----------



## Sdajii (14 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If that's true, truevalue, one of your contacts knows something none of mine do (other than two who refuse to talk at the moment!). I would have thought no 'December spawn' by mid January would count as news. If an oil company drills on newly acquired land and gets nothing, they don't just say "Oh, we won't announce that, there was no news".

Do you hold?


----------



## truevalue (14 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This is not oil drilling it is spawning. Noone can flick a switch and force the tuna to spawn. The tuna will spawn in their own time. Management can only provide the best possible environment to encourage a spawn they dont work to a timetable. 

Management are still fully expecting a spawn. The oil field is not dry.

Yes I hold plenty


----------



## sashimi (17 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Persevering Researchers Make a
Splash With Farm-Bred Tuna
A 30-year effort has paid off in raising bluefin tuna in captivity, but the benefit for
wild stocks of the embattled predator may be years more away


http://www.seaaroundus.org/magazine...ingResearchersMakeASplashWithFarmBredTuna.pdf


----------



## Sdajii (17 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> This is not oil drilling it is spawning. Noone can flick a switch and force the tuna to spawn. The tuna will spawn in their own time. Management can only provide the best possible environment to encourage a spawn they dont work to a timetable.
> 
> Management are still fully expecting a spawn. The oil field is not dry.
> 
> Yes I hold plenty




It's not quite an oil drill, but I was under the impression that hormone treatments were effectively a switch which could be flicked to force the tuna to spawn.

I suppose it's not unusual to get a bit low in confidence when news is coming but has not yet arrived, or when an imminent event is still imminent and not realised. Once they spawn I'm sure those like me will feel a lot more comfortable.


----------



## omac (18 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

YTK is now in the shops. 
Sold under the john west brand in the meat fridge, not frozen. I picked some up yesterday after seeing it, tastes good. There is a good range of seafood (some australian) all under the john west name (simplot).


----------



## Airfireman (18 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Waiting Waiting Waiting for the full moon and the spawning to commence...come on 30 Jan  and hopefully alot of happy faces


----------



## truevalue (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Trading halt!

The spawn began late last week! Wow CSS kept that a secret - big improvement for them!

Breathe a sigh of relief, another milestone hit and another step closer to the dream.


----------



## drlog (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Trading Halt? Commsec isnt saying there is a halt?

Anyway, todays announcement is good news  Let's see what happens!


----------



## Sdajii (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Trading Halt? Commsec isnt saying there is a halt?
> 
> Anyway, todays announcement is good news  Let's see what happens!




Comsec has been showing CSS up as preopen since the spawn announcement about seven minutes ago, although it still doesn't show the announcement - there seems to be a delay. It's visible on ASX though.

Exciting!


----------



## Speculator (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hey guys

Sitting here this morning with my finger on the trigger in my IG account and CSS goes into a trading halt!?  

Only been a trader/investor for 5months so not entirley sure what this means.

Could a more market seasoned person please fill me on the posibilities of why they did this and what it means for the share holders.  

Appreciate it.


----------



## drlog (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The trading status is "normal" and the high is 30c at the moment.

My portfolio went up a bit in value in the last 19 mins


----------



## drlog (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Speculator, if you hold CSS then you dont have anything to worry about in the short term. They didnt make an announcement on the ASX site saying that they should go into a trading halt so I am not sure why your trading account says that they are on a halt (hmm, strange).

Anyway, if you do hold now, you should be able to sell very soon (if that is what you want to do). If you wanted to buy before the announcement of the successful spawn this morning...well, sorry 

Having said that, 30c is still "cheap" although it is difficult to value a company like this.


----------



## Sdajii (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Speculator: It wasn't a big trading halt, just the standard few minutes of halt for a price sensitive announcement, they are trading again now. When big news goes up they give people a bit of breathing time to think about what they're doing, quickly remove or alter their existing orders to reflect the new situation, and put new bids in. I would prefer an hour or so as standard for price sensitive announcements, but I am clearly not in the majority!


----------



## Purple XS2 (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Trading Halt? Commsec isnt saying there is a halt?
> 
> Anyway, todays announcement is good news  Let's see what happens!




Not quite a trading halt, rather a 'price sensitive announcement' which, when made during trading hours, suspends trading briefly - I think it's only for about 10-15 minutes, not exactly sure.

Enough to pull, place or adjust your bids, if you happened to be actively monitoring the system.

Worth noting that the recent ADO feeding frenzy was set off by a 'price sensitive announcement'.

This one by CSS looks like stimulating some interest.

Disclosure - do not hold, watching ...


----------



## derty (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

From Ann:







> Owing to the new technology involved in this complex Southern Bluefin Tuna project, and the intellectual property associated therewith, the company needs to maintain an appropriate level of commercial confidentiality. Additional information regarding the Southern Bluefin Tuna business and the kingfish business’s financial performance will be released with the 2010 interim results.




Great news. The announcement seemed a bit thin on information, though the above paragraph of the announcement explains why. If there is limited progress update due to IP concerns, CSS may move a bit slower than expected. 

Anyone know when the 2010 interim results might be due?


----------



## truevalue (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



derty said:


> From Ann:
> 
> Great news. The announcement seemed a bit thin on information, though the above paragraph of the announcement explains why. If there is limited progress update due to IP concerns, CSS may move a bit slower than expected.
> 
> Anyone know when the 2010 interim results might be due?




The results came out in the 23rd of February last year derty.

IP concerns will be all about reducing mortality rates. CSS are ironing out all the problems they had with the last spawn to ensure commercial quantities can be produced. 

Once a good quantity of fingerlings are in sea cages we can tick off another big milestone.


----------



## Liar's Poker (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Spawning announcement at 10:07am today.

From the announcement (I can't link due to post count, or lack thereof):

_"Clean Seas Tuna Ltd is pleased to advise its Southern Bluefin Tuna broodstock commenced spawning late last week and larval rearing has commenced. It is anticipated that resultant fingerlings will be transferred to sea cages at Arno Bay for commercialisation growout trials in March."_

Good news.

Note: Currently holding CSS.


----------



## Speculator (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the prompt responces guys

Got a little paniced hehe.

Every day is a lesson.

GL + HP


----------



## Basilica (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Some good news on the spawning, their 3rd time now so definatly repeatable. MASSIVE volume traded at 16 million shares. Is that a record for CSS? I wonder if a big investor is using the announcement to sell out? Maybe the underwritter.

Did CSS state what happened to the remainder of the tuna from last years spawning? Did any spend time in the cage?
Does "commercialisation growout trials" have a specific meaning or quantity in CSS context?

Does this following part of the announcement mean no more announcements?
Why would updating the status of the tuna place their IP at risk?

"Owing to the new technology involved in this complex Southern Bluefin Tuna project, and the intellectual property associated therewith, the company needs to maintain an appropriate level of commercial confidentiality. Additional information regarding the Southern Bluefin Tuna business and the kingfish business’s financial performance will be released with the 2010 interim results"

So many questions, thanks in advance.


----------



## Bigukraine (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Great ann. today and good share volume and price responce on info given.
Only have one prob with ann. and that is approx. HOW MANY were their so that we the shareholder can get an idea on the mortality rate. Bit sensative??????? I wonder
ps would like to add i know they are only larva at the min but an approx amount eg 5-10-1000 kg would be nice and a comparison to last year would of been good !


----------



## Sdajii (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> The results came out in the 23rd of February last year derty.
> 
> IP concerns will be all about reducing mortality rates. CSS are ironing out all the problems they had with the last spawn to ensure commercial quantities can be produced.
> 
> Once a good quantity of fingerlings are in sea cages we can tick off another big milestone.




Didn't they say today that more information would be coming in the report you're saying came out last February? Maybe I'm missing something, forgive me if I'm being highly ignorant.

It's an exciting time! The hush hush due to IP is frustrating for us, but if they can get a trial batch out to the offshore cages and to market this year, we know the whole process is possible, it will have been done, and next year they can run full swing into commercial quantities. They've already done the most difficult things now, and it's just a matter of making sure the offshore stage works, which is the easiest bit.

Watching the movements today it was clear that a lot of people were using this positive to get out with a bit more money than they would have had a few weeks ago, probably due to frustration at how long it has taken to get to where we are now. The underwriters of the recent fund raising possibly sold a fair bit too. This would have held the price down, but the sellers will probably dry up, and hopefully now that the announcement has been made, Cleanseas will get some media attention which will attract more investors. Fingers crossed!

It's a big relief to finally have the spawn!


----------



## Basilica (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Didn't they say today that more information would be coming in the report you're saying came out last February? Maybe I'm missing something, forgive me if I'm being highly ignorant.




I think Truevalue was stating when the report was released last year as an indication of when this years report will be released. 
If you ask questions, you will not be ignorant for long.


----------



## Basilica (19 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> It's an exciting time! The hush hush due to IP is frustrating for us, but if they can get a trial batch out to the offshore cages and to market this year, we know the whole process is possible, it will have been done, and next year they can run full swing into commercial quantities. They've already done the most difficult things now, and it's just a matter of making sure the offshore stage works, which is the easiest bit.
> 
> Watching the movements today it was clear that a lot of people were using this positive to get out with a bit more money than they would have had a few weeks ago, probably due to frustration at how long it has taken to get to where we are now. The underwriters of the recent fund raising possibly sold a fair bit too. This would have held the price down, but the sellers will probably dry up, and hopefully now that the announcement has been made, Cleanseas will get some media attention which will attract more investors. Fingers crossed!
> 
> It's a big relief to finally have the spawn!




I doubt they will get to market this year, just not enough time. Possibly 11 or 12 depending on the size the market wants.

I think you summerised the days trading well.

The big relief will be when the fingerlings have aclimatised in the cool water of the cages, they seem to have solved the spawning and early mortalitiy problems.

Keep the questions comming


----------



## Bigukraine (20 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

IN the Adelaide paper this am "QUOTE"   HS the spawning has been far better than last year and it all looks very promising. Looks like we had to wait until the print media to get the info we needed !


----------



## truevalue (20 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

First time I have seen CSS in the Financial Review today. Sadly it is in Rear Window and completely wrong on just about all its facts. Apparantly a sucessful spawning is: "not normally the sort of news that has excited interest in Clean Seas". What idiots. The column then goes on with a whole bunch of other incorrect rubbish.


----------



## Bigukraine (20 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> First time I have seen CSS in the Financial Review today. Sadly it is in Rear Window and completely wrong on just about all its facts. Apparantly a sucessful spawning is: "not normally the sort of news that has excited interest in Clean Seas". What idiots. The column then goes on with a whole bunch of other incorrect rubbish.




Hi TRue,
I thought this new mgr they got was a gun ! you would of thought he would of overseen the press releases. Mr J E-F and CA should of come up with somthing better than what they have. The media ring you up for info so you must put your best foot forward but i have a feeling that certain people that started this bus. find it hard to let the reins go ! IMO


----------



## truevalue (20 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Bigukraine said:


> Hi TRue,
> I thought this new mgr they got was a gun ! you would of thought he would of overseen the press releases. Mr J E-F and CA should of come up with somthing better than what they have. The media ring you up for info so you must put your best foot forward but i have a feeling that certain people that started this bus. find it hard to let the reins go ! IMO




It is pretty clear Rear Window haven't called CSS to talk about the story. They have obviously relied on scuttlebutt from a poorly informed broker or fund manager.


----------



## tge oracle (20 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Truevalue,

I admire your patience and faith in CSS. 

I am still keeping a close eye on CSS but my head still tells me to hold off for now. I have allocated a portion of my CSS funds to TGR in the aquaculture space but will monitor CSS very carefully over the next couple of months, particularly the interim results in Feb.
The SBT spawning is commenable but , non the less, somewhat expected.
I will be looking very closely at the YTK part of the business to see if cash flow and sales will support the long ( 2-3 year ) period that will be needed to  grow and develop the SBT side of the business.
I am still of the view that further Cap raisings are in the wings and there is ample time to invest in CSS for the long haul. 
As I have stated earlier the easy money opportunity has been lost for CSS, it will be at the mercy of daytraders and speculators for the foreseable future.
Despite their success in breeding, last year, I am still non the wiser on the magnitude of success they achieved , particularly mortality and growth rates.
Anyway, good luck to yourself and holders. If the conditions are right, I hope to rejoin you again someday.


----------



## Sdajii (20 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Hi Truevalue,
> 
> I admire your patience and faith in CSS.
> 
> ...




Last year they had an extremely small number of larvae succesfully raised, but the number isn't important at all. They weren't attempting to make a trial commercial run, they just needed to try different things to work out how to do it. It doesn't matter whether it was 20 or 20,000 (well, at 20,000 it would start to become lucrative, but you know what I mean). The fact is, they tried different things and got it to work with a small few. Now they just have to do what worked on those few this year, on the whole lot (other than a few which they will experiment with a little to see if they can get slightly better results with a few small tweaks). If you try to bake a million cakes with 10,000 different recipes, and one recipe works, you'll only have 100 cakes, which is a dismal result, but the next year you can use that recipe on all million trials, and you should have almost a million cakes. Last year they were just getting the recipe right.

This year they'll have a go at commercial production on a small scale (not to try to make a profit, just to test the difficult part of the recipe and test/perfect the rest/easy part of the recipe). If it works, there is no secret that there will be another fund raiser, I've discussed that directly with someone on the CSS board, and it's pretty obvious - the new infrastructure isn't going to build itself for free. However, if that is the case, it will be happening because they know they have the complete commercial recipe worked out and tested, and are very close to commercial production and realised profits, the fund raising will be to construct the necessary infrastructure to use the recipe on a commercial scale. In that scenario (which is entirely likely), the share price will reflect how close the company is to realised profits, so the SPP will be substantially higher than the January 2010 share price. Right now we're testing the larvae rearing recipe - getting them to fingerlings. At that stage they're tough little monsters which will eat and grow like mad. It has already been done, they just have to confirm it on a large (ish) scale.


----------



## truevalue (21 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

After all my panning of the AFR yesterday there are actually two big articles today on the state of the SBT industry (pages 3 and 45 if you are looking) and even a small mention of CSS' place in the future of the industry.

Oracle, I am still very opptimistic but you can imagine my patience has been sorely tested.

Apart from Rabobank pulling out the rug last year, CSS has performed more or less to my expections operationally. I was always a little concerned they were growing YTK too quickly but I am confident that is now under control. SBT milestones have been hit and they will significantly improve their mortality results this year vs last year. Being able to put fingerlings into sea cages will be a major factor in regards to mortality. They are 2-3 years away from commercial sales but so are many mining companies and CSS is sitting on a huge resource that the market will be looking to value at some time in the future. Given the cuts in fishing quotas recently I can imagine Sarin and all the other Port Lincoln tuna barons coming on bended knee wanting to buy CSS fingerlings in a couple of months.

All the arrows are pointing in the right direction and this company has too many credible people endorsing their future that I cannot see it coming to nothing.


----------



## JackC (25 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

An article from the Business Spectator on the 23rd Jan

James Thomson
RICH PICKINGS: Fishing for a fortune

It’s been a big week at South Australian aquaculture outfit Clean Seas Tuna. 

The company, which is trying to establish an artificial breeding and commercial farming operation for Southern Bluefin Tuna, announced on January 19 that its broodstock had started successfully spawning, with the resultant fingerlings (very young fish) expected to be transferred to sea cages in March. 

The news – another milestone in Clean Seas' journey towards commercial fish farming – sent the company’s stock up 12.5 per cent on the day, with 17 million shares (about 56 times the average daily turnover over the past 12 months) changing hands. 

That slice of good news will no doubt have thrilled Clean Seas executive chairman, Hagen Stehr, an old-school tuna fisherman from Port Lincoln who has become obsessed with his artificial breeding dream. 

While Clean Seas is essentially a technology company, Stehr is hardly your typical boffin. A few years ago I was lucky enough to travel to Port Lincoln for a story and spent the best part of two days getting a guided tour of his operations. 

He is without doubt the most interesting rich entrepreneur I have ever met. A former member of the German merchant navy and the French Foreign Legion, Stehr jumped ship in Port Lincoln in 1960, fell in love with a local girl (his wife Anna) and joined the local fishing industry. 

He’s loud, brash, generous and never stops talking – one minute he would be telling us about the wild west-like antics that used to occur on the tuna boats, the next minute he’d be explaining the process by which fish is delivered from Port Lincoln to the fish markets of Tokyo. 

But Stehr’s passion for the Clean Seas breeding dream, and his willingness to spend millions backing the company, is impressive. 

His basic argument is that with fish stocks declining and food security an ever-growing problem, artificially breeding SBT is the only way to ensure supply can meet demand. And he’s hoping his theory will help make him very, very rich. 

Stehr is one of two Port Lincoln fishermen on BRW’s Rich 200, with fellow tuna baron Sam Sarin. The pair, along with fisherman-turned-thoroughbred-breeder Tony Santic, helped make Port Lincoln the richest town in Australia on a per capita basis. 

But aside from Clean Seas success, it’s been a tough period for the town and the tuna barons. 

Tuna prices have remained sluggish for the past 12 months, thanks in part to diminished demand from the key market of Japan, where consumers appear to have pulled back because of the global financial crisis. 

In November, the annual fishing quota for SBT was slashed by 24 per cent for 2010 and 2011. Then, in a bad start to the new year, bushfires in the Port Lincoln region last week cost the Stehr Group more than $1 million in damages, destroying a highly prized vineyard, a net shed – which held about 10 large nets worth $30,000 to $40,000 each – and a workshop. 

But the cut to the fishing quota, ordered by the global Commission for the Conservation of Southern Bluefin Tuna, was by far the biggest blow, according to Brian Jeffries, chief executive of the Australian Southern Bluefin Tuna Industry Association. 

Fishing operations – including Sarin’s Australian Fishing Enterprises and Stehr’s company Stehr Group – had readied boats, aircraft, staff and other infrastructure in the expectation that the quota would not be cut. Then, just one month before the fishing season was to start, came the news that the sector dreaded. 

“The timing was the biggest problem,” Jeffries says. “There was an initial period of retrenchments and there will be more in 2010, although the main retrenchments will occur in supporting industries.” 

All told, it is estimated the sector supports 4500 jobs in South Australia. 

The quota cuts are also likely to have sliced a touch more off the fortunes of Sarin (whose was revised down by BRW last year from $565 million to $258 million) and Stehr (who dropped from $271 million to $168 million). 

According to official government data, Sarin holds around 40 per cent of Australia’s SBT quota, or about 2170 tonnes. Stehr Group holds just over 700 tonnes, while Tony Santic’s company Tony’s Tuna holds just over 1200 tonnes. 

About two years ago, tuna prices were so strong that a tonne of tuna was valued at about $180,000. Today, the level of uncertainty in the industry means it’s extremely difficult to get a valuation. 

A professional valuer, who regularly values quotas for banks and other finance companies, says he’s all but given up trying to put a price on the quotas. 

“No-one is selling, and certainly no-one is interested in buying,” he says. 

When pushed, he gives a rough estimate of $110,000 a tonne, which values Sarin’s quota at over $230 million, Santic’s at $132 million and Stehr’s quota at a bit over $77 million (his stake in Clean Seas is worth around $50 million). 

While these estimates are clearly rough, they do indicate a sharp fall from less than three years ago. 

But there is some hope on the horizon. Jeffries expects tuna prices could double later in 2010, as a stockpile of tuna sitting in Japanese freezer rooms runs out and as cuts to the quotas of Northern Bluefin Tuna fisherman in the Mediterranean Sea start to push up demand for SBT. The strong Australian dollar is also helping to reduce feed prices. 

The restructuring done by the Port Lincoln fisherman when the SBT quota cut was announced should ensure better profits as the year progresses. 

“They’ve tailored their business to their operations to that lower costs base which will leave them well placed when prices do recover,” says Jeffries. 

If Northern Bluefin Tuna supply remains constrained and the SBT quota is restored for the 2012 season, the barons of Port Lincoln should be in for a few good years. 

But after that, their greatest threat could come from within – specifically, from Hagen Stehr’s Clean Seas group. 

Clean Seas' goals is to produce 10,000 tonnes of commercially farmed SBT – that’s double Australia’s existing quota – by 2015. 

If he’s successful – and there is still much water to go under the bridge – then Clean Seas is likely to be worth much more than its current market capitalisation of $117 million. 

But while Stehr might get rich, how this sudden surge in supply might affect his fellow tuna barons – and their fortunes – is unclear. It’s likely prices would come under pressure, although the sushi purists of Japan may still favour fresh fish over farmed. 

Whatever happens, it appears the stormy seas faced by Port Lincoln’s tuna barons in the last 12 months are unlikely to abate for some time yet


----------



## Sdajii (25 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A positive future and a scarey present equals an undervalued stock. Great if you want to buy now and hang on for the medium to long term  If we get even a small subcommercial batch of those babies into the sea cages by March and into Japanese sushi restaurants later in the year, things are going to be looking very rosey 

A current situation of low prices (although, I don't see how anything over $100 per kg is a low price!) due to a temporary financial crisis which should be over by the time full production is steaming ahead has things further undervalued. The wild supply is only going to drop, tuna prices are only going to climb, and Cleanseas is only going to get better at producing the SBT in higher and higher quality as they learn more and more. This has "WIN" written all over it.


----------



## drlog (29 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like they submitted the quarterly report today. Looks like they burnt through some cash pretty quickly - net operating cash outflow was 7mil.

I think it is very clear that this year will be another loss.

However, there is a tid-bit of good news information. They are saying that the spawn continues and that larvae are in onshore tanks, feeding on rotifers.

Hmm, the share price has fallen a lot since their announcement, back to the same level it was BEFORE the announcement of successful spawning. Any ideas?

Oh well, I shall wait and hold.


----------



## Nero64 (29 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It is unfortunate that no good news about the spawning wasn't released in Dec before the spp offer closed. I was waiting for this before I took the risk of buying in at 25c

Then some news came out last week but there was no follow through on the share price the day after even though the market was up. On the day it only went up 4c or so from the previous day. 

I'm thinking that the small gain may have been a chance for many investors to exit for a quick couple of grand, which could mean that there will be no support around 25c. If the market goes lower who knows where the share price will end up. I hope it doesn't come to this. 

I don't think the company's lethargic and little information as possible approach is helping any holders. 

The spp issue at a 50% discount to the pre trading halt price was not the smartest thing to do considering many have held this stock for a long time. 

Some huge orders went in around 25c. Some up to 400 000 units just so a few cents appreciation  could get them out even so they could get out of this high risk low return company.


----------



## bennywizard (29 January 2010)

*CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The whole market is down, so its not surprising that CSS is also.The fact that they have young feeding is a very positive sign, the next important announcement will be how successful they are were at raising the young. If they got the formula right then they will have completed the hardest part and the rest is simply multiplying the process to economies of scale and the company will be very profitable.


----------



## tge oracle (30 January 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The most important aspects of the quarterly report , for me, are the receipts from customers ( product sales ) and working capital ( growout / husbandry ) expenses. The sales were marginally higher but were exceeded by working capital expenses. Working Capital expenses will increase exponentially over the next few years due to the high cost of SBT growout/husbandry and are unlikely to be matched by product sales.
The report doesn't indicate if this is increased YTK sales alone , or, includes the rundown of Mulloway inventory.
I have always believed it is essential for CSS to create an viable and profitible YTK / Mulloway business to help support the immense expense in propogation and growout of SBT. Sadly, for investors, CSS will need to rely on Cap Raisings to support their financial requirements. I think this is why Rabo Bank withdrew support.
As for early sales of SBT by year end ( 2-3kg fish ), they will only get skipjack( canned tuna ) tuna prices which would be commercially unviable. I think they will need around 3 years to reach 30-40kg fish to achieve premium sashimi prices.
It will be intersting to see the details in the interim report in Feb.


----------



## Basilica (2 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> As for early sales of SBT by year end ( 2-3kg fish ), they will only get skipjack( canned tuna ) tuna prices which would be commercially unviable.




I agree if the small fish are sold into the food market the price will be way too low.
However a far better price could be achieved in just one year from now if they included live sale of  SBT to the many growers in the area that are limited by the quota. It would assist thier cash flow and per KG may return more than even the sushi market. (and they could swim to the buyer instead of flying)


----------



## tge oracle (3 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I agree if the small fish are sold into the food market the price will be way too low.
> However a far better price could be achieved in just one year from now if they included live sale of  SBT to the many growers in the area that are limited by the quota. It would assist thier cash flow and per KG may return more than even the sushi market. (and they could swim to the buyer instead of flying)




Hi Basilica,

I have never seen any business plan from CSS that includes sales of juvenile SBT to Port Lincoln fishermen. I am very cautious of businesses that change there business model without explanation. The problem I have with this plan, if it is indeed the case, is that they will reduce, perhaps dramatically, their stock for growout to supply the Japanses sashimi market. This has always been their main goal since inception. I am not convinced the Port Lincoln fishermen will pay that much for the juvenile SBT as they will need to growout the SBT for a further couple of years and shoulder the cost of doing so.


----------



## drlog (3 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

All of this is just speculation on what CSS could/might do. No one from CSS has said "we are going to sell young fish to other fisheries".


----------



## Basilica (4 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Hi Basilica,
> 
> I have never seen any business plan from CSS that includes sales of juvenile SBT to Port Lincoln fishermen. I am very cautious of businesses that change there business model without explanation. The problem I have with this plan, if it is indeed the case, is that they will reduce, perhaps dramatically, their stock for growout to supply the Japanses sashimi market. This has always been their main goal since inception. I am not convinced the Port Lincoln fishermen will pay that much for the juvenile SBT as they will need to growout the SBT for a further couple of years and shoulder the cost of doing so.




Hi tge oracle,
I have no info that CSS is planning what i suggested. To me it seemed like a logical solution to the future cash flow problems. I thought the local growers would be happy to pay a very fair price to expand beyond thier quota limitations



drlog said:


> All of this is just speculation on what CSS could/might do. No one from CSS has said "we are going to sell young fish to other fisheries".




Pure speculation drlog, and perhaps discussing it here has little merit. It was brought up in response to selling small  food fish that i consider a lesser idea.


----------



## tge oracle (4 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Basilica,

Yes, I think it would be a mistake to deviate from their business plan.
The problems I see with selling juvenile SBT to other fisheries are twofold:

1. I don't think they will get much for the juvenile SBT.
2. A greater concern would be over supplying the market. The very reason CSS embarked on this project was to supply aquaculture bred SBT themselves.
They have undertaken all of the commercial risk over the past 5 years, why sell to competitors and potentially depress the market price for aquaculture bred SBT. 
I would hope they don't sell to anybody and growout the SBT as planned.


----------



## Basilica (4 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basilica,
> 
> Yes, I think it would be a mistake to deviate from their business plan.
> The problems I see with selling juvenile SBT to other fisheries are twofold:
> ...




You may be right oracle, And since it was never part of thier business plan it is hardly worth considering.


----------



## Qjumpa (11 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

.24c 

CSS have got to be more open about direction

seriously, how low will it go!

:behead:


----------



## Speculator (11 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Qjumpa said:


> .24c
> 
> CSS have got to be more open about direction
> 
> ...




haha Qjumpa

This one got alot of media coverage and getting that award in time magazine definatley put it in the lime light, also saw it in a list of stocks 'that have the power to make a man a millionare'. 

So my take is a lot of impatient people moving out to capitalise on other plays, throw in the market sentiment over the last 3 weeks and a statement from the directors that we will no longer be getting regular updates (the short term guys like dates) and you have a depressed SP.

BTW from looking at the shart the only way it will go lower is if the co goes bust... imo.

I'm in for the long haul  

...with a small parcel relative to portfolio of course.


----------



## medelm (12 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Im with Speculator, I dont think they will head any lower, 0.24 seems to be a strong resistance and the old 52 week low of 0.235 hasnt been hit in the last week where it had many opportunities throughout the days. 

DISC: Holding.


----------



## Liar's Poker (16 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Speculator said:


> haha Qjumpa
> 
> This one got alot of media coverage and getting that award in time magazine definatley put it in the lime light, also saw it in a list of stocks 'that have the power to make a man a millionare'.
> 
> ...




Good summary - I agree. Without announcements, the sellers are always going to be more dominant. 

Note: Currently holding CSS.


----------



## drlog (16 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yeah, I dont expect it to go much further south. 24c seems to be the support (I never thought I would say something technical like that). Anyway, I guess the next announcement that we are waiting for would be the half year report but I don't expect much information about the SBT in it.

Let's see if they announce something in March when they are supposedly moving the fish to the grow out stage. Heh, it would be funny if they just never said anything at all about it and in 2012, the financial statements suddenly showed enormous profits with a 24c dividend  Ok, I'll stop daydreaming now.

All of this talk about fish is making me hungry 

Yes, I hold.


----------



## Basilica (17 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Did anyone else watch the SBS program on Fish and Japan last night? They had an interesting segment on KIKI university and NBT breeding. One point that stuck into my mind is that it takes 10kg of Macrel to grow 1kg of tuna. Lower FCR than i thought.


----------



## tge oracle (18 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Did anyone else watch the SBS program on Fish and Japan last night? They had an interesting segment on KIKI university and NBT breeding. One point that stuck into my mind is that it takes 10kg of Macrel to grow 1kg of tuna. Lower FCR than i thought.




Yes, I watched this program Basilica. 
The growth rates ( timeframe ) and FCR is the main concern I have with SBT.
To give you some examples of FCR :

1. Tassal Salmon - 1.5 / 1.0
2. Chicken - 2.5 / 1.0  ( Note : Chicken feed is low cost )
3. YTK ( Cleanseas ) - 4.0 / 1.0
4. SBT - 10 / 1.0 ( wild mackeral )

You can see from this table that Cleanseas has been unable to improve the FCR for YTK and this is, partly, why they are struggling with profitibilty.
I have concerns that they will not be able to acheive an acceptable FCR for SBT which will need around 3 years growout time.
The 10 / 1.0 is for wild caught mackeral and would be commercially unviable for CSS if this was to be their FCR for SBT, however, they will be relying on Ridley SBT feedmix to lower this FCR. It will need to be a substantial improvement on the Kinki FCR highlighted in the program.


----------



## drlog (18 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I thought CSS had developed (with the help of some other Aussie company) a new type of feed that is cheap to manufacture? This means that the cost of food for the SBT is significantly lower than mackeral making this a moot proposition.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Basilica (18 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, I watched this program Basilica.
> The growth rates ( timeframe ) and FCR is the main concern I have with SBT.
> To give you some examples of FCR :
> 
> ...




Hi Oracle, One factor i should have stated is the difference between dry and wet feed when comparing FCR. The Mackeral is wet and contains a lot of water  weight that does not contribute to SBT weight.  In your list 
1 Tassal 1.5:1 is dry weight
2 Chicken 2.5:1 ??? not sure
3 YTK 4:1  ??? dry weiight i think
4 SBT (mackeral) 10:1 Wet weight
Do you know if 2 and 3 are wet or dry?

A credit to CSS and ridley is the work in developing products to lower final feed cost.


----------



## Basilica (18 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> I thought CSS had developed (with the help of some other Aussie company) a new type of feed that is cheap to manufacture? This means that the cost of food for the SBT is significantly lower than mackeral making this a moot proposition.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.




You are correct drlog. I think it is Ridley and are blending land based protien (chicken etc) with fish meal. Some market resistance to land based feed is anticipated from fussy customers, but little facts are known if SBT quality will suffer or perhaps even improve.


----------



## tge oracle (18 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi Oracle, One factor i should have stated is the difference between dry and wet feed when comparing FCR. The Mackeral is wet and contains a lot of water  weight that does not contribute to SBT weight.  In your list
> 1 Tassal 1.5:1 is dry weight
> 2 Chicken 2.5:1 ??? not sure
> 3 YTK 4:1  ??? dry weiight i think
> ...




Basilica,

Chicken feed is small dry pellets. CSS's YTK feed is dry feed distributed by their recently launched feeding barge " Ulysses " .
I think they will need to get their FCR down to at least 2.5 : 1 for both YTK and SBT in order to maintain cost control during the growout period.


----------



## Basilica (18 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basilica,
> 
> Chicken feed is small dry pellets. CSS's YTK feed is dry feed distributed by their recently launched feeding barge " Ulysses " .
> I think they will need to get their FCR down to at least 2.5 : 1 for both YTK and SBT in order to maintain cost control during the growout period.




Ahh, i misunderstood you before. You mean pellets for chickens and not pellets from chicken? I read they were going to try alternative protien from land animals. May be wrong though.


----------



## Qjumpa (23 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

*EU proposes ban on commercial bluefin tuna fishing*


Feb 22, 2010 06:26 EST

The European Commission said Monday it is proposing that a ban on commercial bluefin tuna fishing, to protect the fish much prized by Japanese sushi lovers, come into force next year.
"We have no other choice but to act now and propose a ban on commercial fishing," EU Environment Commissioner Janez Potocnik told a Brussels press conference.
National governments across the European Union must now approve the commission's proposal, ahead of a meeting in March in Qatar of the United Nations body that decides whether species are listed as endangered.
Source: AFP Global Edition


----------



## drlog (23 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like this could get very interesting even for people who have never heard of CSS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/20/business/energy-environment/20tuna.html

All CSS needs to do is grow the current SBT fish and get them to Japan


----------



## Basilica (23 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Volume is much higher today compared to recent days. Perhaps some details of the expected announcement is leaking a little. The move seems to be down.


----------



## drlog (23 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> Volume is much higher today compared to recent days. Perhaps some details of the expected announcement is leaking a little. The move seems to be down.




Interesting. Their half year report should be coming out very soon, perhaps that is it?

Heh, or perhaps it is the fact that they said the report would be out in mid Feb but it isnt out yet and people are getting skittish


----------



## Qjumpa (23 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Interesting. Their half year report should be coming out very soon, perhaps that is it?
> 
> Heh, or perhaps it is the fact that they said the report would be out in mid Feb but it isnt out yet and people are getting skittish




Hey drlog,
The guys in TS say the interim report and update will be released on 26 Feb 2010. 
I think the market is spooked by the news headlines “SA tuna industry coming to an end” which is really only the Port Lincoln tuna cannery operation finishing up as expected for some time now...Bad reporting!
But, i reckon they’ve delayed releasing this interim report and update until this news went to press...

The crossroads for CSS may just be around the corner IMO...

I may pick up some more cheap cheap


----------



## Nero64 (23 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Judging by last announcements their Interim should be between the 23rd-26th Feb, but I can't see any definite time listed. Not sure what positive results it could bring except to say they are debt free and progressing favourably with the spawning. 

They have another spawning update in March, so they say. 

If they could spend as much time in promoting themselves through the print and media instead of hiding behind a flashy website the stock price might acutally go up. 

It's like they don't have confidence in their own ability and it is showing through.

Support has been broken and it slowly sliding away. Something needs to be done.


----------



## drlog (24 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> udging by last announcements their Interim should be between the 23rd-26th Feb, but I can't see any definite time listed. Not sure what positive results it could bring except to say they are debt free and progressing favourably with the spawning.
> 
> They have another spawning update in March, so they say.
> 
> ...




In March, it wont be a "spawning update", it will be a "we have SBT in cages at sea" update. At the moment, the fish are spawning and eating rotifers.

Anyway, they said that they are keeping quiet because they have industry secrets to lose. Its a bit strange at the moment - this phase is going to make or break the company but they cant tell us about it...grrr!

Heh, at 23c they are super cheap considering they were above 30c and no new news has come out since!


----------



## Sdajii (24 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> In March, it wont be a "spawning update", it will be a "we have SBT in cages at sea" update. At the moment, the fish are spawning and eating rotifers.
> 
> Anyway, they said that they are keeping quiet because they have industry secrets to lose. Its a bit strange at the moment - this phase is going to make or break the company but they cant tell us about it...grrr!
> 
> Heh, at 23c they are super cheap considering they were above 30c and no new news has come out since!




I am biting my nails while waiting for the "they're in offshore cages" announcement. I think they are currently undervalued, but investor confidence is obviously very low (hardly surprising since we are being deliberately kept in the dark at times, while being poorly updated at others, in my opinion). If the survival rate is good and the fish get into offshore cages I think we'll have reason to be excited, and if the price reflects that we'll have a fairly increase in share price, and if growth in the offshore cages is good (very likely) you would have to expect some very nice gains. So, if the numbers which go into the offshore cages is good, my prediction is that it will be a great time to buy. Of course, if survival of the larvae is poor and the next announcement is that few or none will be going to sea, I'm going to be kissing most of what's left of my money goodbye, because with confidence already so low another year of delay is going to prevent anyone from coming on board.


----------



## Basilica (24 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Interesting. Their half year report should be coming out very soon, perhaps that is it?
> 
> Heh, or perhaps it is the fact that they said the report would be out in mid Feb but it isnt out yet and people are getting skittish




The punters do hate delays in announcements. 



drlog said:


> In March, it wont be a "spawning update", it will be a "we have SBT in cages at sea" update. At the moment, the fish are spawning and eating rotifers.
> 
> Anyway, they said that they are keeping quiet because they have industry secrets to lose. Its a bit strange at the moment - this phase is going to make or break the company but they cant tell us about it...grrr!
> 
> Heh, at 23c they are super cheap considering they were above 30c and no new news has come out since!




23c does seem cheap but it may still get cheaper



Sdajii said:


> I am biting my nails while waiting for the "they're in offshore cages" announcement.




That part of the announcement will happen sometime. I am also hanging out for the Cash burn rate. When i buy in there will be enough cash to last until the company produces cash. Cap raising has been brutal to current holders of this stock.


----------



## steveba5 (24 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am concerned, make that deeply concerned.  I've bought in on several occasions. The highest price I paid was 58c and not long after that I think the SP was almost 80c.  My break even point is much lower and the longer this goes the higher the gains that are required just to break even.
I'll hold for the simple reason that I now have much less to lose!  Even if they hit 10c I won't be buiyng more.  
CSS need to get some good results and they need them quick.  The economy is becoming shakier by the day and if they're planning on another capital raising in the futre then they won't get any interest if this current trend continues.  Banks won't go near CSS.  I thought the last SPP price of 25c was way too low but in hindsight, it was high and everyone that took part has now lost narly 10%


----------



## Basilica (24 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steveba5 said:


> I am concerned, make that deeply concerned.  I've bought in on several occasions. The highest price I paid was 58c and not long after that I think the SP was almost 80c.  My break even point is much lower and the longer this goes the higher the gains that are required just to break even.
> I'll hold for the simple reason that I now have much less to lose!  Even if they hit 10c I won't be buiyng more.
> CSS need to get some good results and they need them quick.  The economy is becoming shakier by the day and if they're planning on another capital raising in the futre then they won't get any interest if this current trend continues.  Banks won't go near CSS.  I thought the last SPP price of 25c was way too low but in hindsight, it was high and everyone that took part has now lost narly 10%




The economy is still shakey. Fresh Tuna is a luxury product but good times will happen again. I am unaware of anyone predicting that a further Cap raising will not be needed before the prized tuna arrive at a Japanese fishmonger.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (24 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I understand from a mate who holds CSS (disclosure - I do not) that CSS is due to report tomorrow.

DYOR.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

11am AEDT on 26/2/10 and still no report from CSS.

Instead, we get a fluff interview in the Oz between Switzer and Hagen Stehr here.

No wonder the more impatient traders are divesting themselves of CSS at 21-22c per share this morning.


----------



## truevalue (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have found from watching this stock that South Australians (particularly those from Port Lincoln) are on a different time zone and don't care too much about us in the eastern states. Should be out after lunch I am guessing.


----------



## drlog (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am from SA and tend to disagree but I am from Adelaide and tend to agree with the whole country slowness hypothesis you have put forward.

Just be glad this isn't based in Darwin


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> 11am AEDT on 26/2/10 and still no report from CSS.
> 
> Instead, we get a fluff interview in the Oz between Switzer and Hagen Stehr here.
> 
> No wonder the more impatient traders are divesting themselves of CSS at 21-22c per share this morning.




Thanks for the link Pauley, I did not find the artical at all encouraging. Hagen is not preaching imminent success as usual but deep pocket and the heading never say die is suss. did we get informed of the status of previous spawnings. Did the  handfull of fish that survived grow to a year + old or did they all die.


----------



## Sdajii (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Thanks for the link Pauley, I did not find the artical at all encouraging. Hagen is not preaching imminent success as usual but deep pocket and the heading never say die is suss. did we get informed of the status of previous spawnings. Did the  handfull of fish that survived grow to a year + old or did they all die.




The article was mostly fluff, but it wasn't particularly discouraging. The fact is, they say they have worked out how to do it now, and if that is true they will be demonstrating it this year. If that happens we will have everything required to successfully farm these things and it's just a matter of scaling the infrastructure up and getting it done (which would obviously require capital raising). The potential for profit here is huge, with SBT being so scarce now and the demand being so strong. There is talk of cutting quotas of wild harvest to zero, and the Japanese ignoring that (which won't take long to result in next to zero harvest regardless of quotas, so either way there aren't going to be many SBT coming out of the ocean for long), so anyone able to supply them is going to be in a very nice position.

Of course, if they are lying or wrong due to overconfidence and they don't successfully raise at least 5-10 thousand tuna to the stage where they can be put in the offshore tanks... ouch. Once they're large enough to get into offshore tanks it's just a matter of raising them. That part isn't rocket science, they're just animals needing food, water and time. It's only the larvae which are sensitive.

They didn't even try to raise the small number of fish from last season using proposed methods, they were just kept in fish tanks as display animals so photographs could be taken and visitors could actually watch them swimming around. There seems little point in putting a dozen fish into a giant offshore cage designed to hold thousands. If you're familiar with fish breeding you'll know that the most critical time is over the first few days after hatching, and for the first few weeks they look and behave like a different species of fish from the adults. After a few weeks they are looking and behaving like small versions of the adults, and it isn't a question of whether or not they will survive but a question of how fast they will grow, how efficient they will be at converting feed to meat, and what the quality will be like.

Fingers crossed for an announcement any minute.


----------



## steveba5 (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Report is available on ASX.
  The market doesn't seem to like it.  Down almost 55%.

The first few pages didn't seem that bad.  I'll keep reading or maybe I missed something?


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steveba5 said:


> Report is available on ASX.
> The market doesn't seem to like it.  Down almost 55%.
> 
> The first few pages didn't seem that bad.  I'll keep reading or maybe I missed something?




Whel i certainly have not read it fully yet but it seems the cash will run out this year leading to either debt or capitol raising. Not much info on SBT status except they are not in the sea cages yet so they may wait until the water warmes up after winter. last trade 17c bid only 15c. worse than i expected.

10c now


----------



## gohawks (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steveba5 said:


> Report is available on ASX.
> The market doesn't seem to like it.  Down almost 55%.
> 
> The first few pages didn't seem that bad.  I'll keep reading or maybe I missed something?




Seems a little crazy report did not seem that great but not that bad either. Massive massive drop, I grabbed a parcel at .110 but not overly confident at all any more.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The spawned fish died.  The "larval rearing system" also has not been finished and won't be finished at least before 2011.  Results did not meet the overblown promises previously made (in hindsight).

That's why the market has savaged CSS.


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> The spawned fish died.  The "larval rearing system" also has not been finished and won't be finished at least before 2011.  Results did not meet the overblown promises previously made (in hindsight).
> 
> That's why the market has savaged CSS.




They died???? Where did you see that Pauley. I read the oldest is 38 days but not that they are not still alive.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> They died???? Where did you see that Pauley. I read the oldest is 38 days but not that they are not still alive.




The key sentence is this one:



			
				CSS said:
			
		

> The program to date has raised new challenges and the oldest fingerlings *survived* to 38 days old and *were* activing feeding on live feed.




Note the past tense.

Further on in the paragraph it says that CSS is conducting a detailed review of the season to date (ie., to find out what they did wrong to kill the fingerlings).

Proof is in the pudding.  Market reckons the fish died so they're selling CSS because, currently, they're full of hot air.

IMO, given they've done three capital raisings in the last 12 months and severely disappointed the market, they'll struggle to raise more funds from the market.  They might have to find a venture capitalist ready to risk a few mill on the chance the technology will pay off.


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> The key sentence is this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think you are right. you are a master of launguage. Yes it is past tense. The lucky insiders may have sold early in the week and that was the unexplained turnover. They have always spoke overly optimistically but they should have come out and said DEAD. The next Cap raising will be a few cents each based on previous integrity.


----------



## WiseMum (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have been watching and waiting for the announcement prior to buying in (thank goodness).  Surely the fish didn't just die this morning?!  Are wonder if there are some ruling implications for not advising the market of this monumental news when it actually occured?


----------



## Nero64 (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

ASX RELEASE



> Going concern Basis of Accounting to half-year financial report. These conditions indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may case significant doubt about the company and consolidated entity's abiltity to continue as a going concern. The company and consoldiated entity will require additional funds for the continued development of their existing projects and working capital.
> 
> The company and consolidated entity to contiue as a going concern is contingent upon ongoing support of financiers, future captial raising / or increased profits generted from the business




There it is. The company still post and act like all is going well. 

I think the writing was on the wall when they didn't get the full take up offer at 25c. 

If you got out at above 30c then you were the lucky ones!


----------



## squidlyadams (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Is anyone still HOLDING? I can't sell at 10 cents.  Ling Term anything can still happen.  I agree those that did wait or got out at above 30 cents are the lucky ones. Its not worth selling my 5k package I bought now for 1.7k. Give them 5 years and I think they will have all the R & D downpacked.  But the only problem is now someone else winning the race internationally and successfully breeding SBT or NBT in that case.

Right now all im doing is


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



WiseMum said:


> I have been watching and waiting for the announcement prior to buying in (thank goodness).  Surely the fish didn't just die this morning?!  Are wonder if there are some ruling implications for not advising the market of this monumental news when it actually occured?




I totally agree WiseMum, they should have suspended trading and informed the market. the fish did not die all at once or this morning. There will be no implications as ASIC is a lame toothless underfunded regulator the worst that will happen is ASIC askes a "Please Explain" and CSS will say sorry. I am still waiting for the right time to invest but dont think it iwill be soon.

The Auditor only signed today??


----------



## McCoy Pauley (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



WiseMum said:


> I have been watching and waiting for the announcement prior to buying in (thank goodness).  Surely the fish didn't just die this morning?!  Are wonder if there are some ruling implications for not advising the market of this monumental news when it actually occured?




Wouldn't be surprised if the ASX issues a "please explain" for (a) not advising the market when the last fingerling died and (b) why a trading halt was not requested given that CSS knew or ought reasonably to have suspected what would happen to the SP once the report was released.


----------



## keitsuke (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

ASX


> Spawning commenced on 14 January 2010 and intermittent spawning events occurred over the next month. At present, the broodstock are showing positive courting behaviour and may recommence spawning in March as in previous years.




The way I read it, even though the current batch of fingerlings are dead, the next spawning batch is not far away, isn't this good news???


----------



## drlog (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> Is anyone still HOLDING? I can't sell at 10 cents.  Ling Term anything can still happen.  I agree those that did wait or got out at above 30 cents are the lucky ones. Its not worth selling my 5k package I bought now for 1.7k. Give them 5 years and I think they will have all the R & D downpacked.  But the only problem is now someone else winning the race internationally and successfully breeding SBT or NBT in that case.
> 
> Right now all im doing is




Heh, I am in the same boat as you. There is no point in selling now unless you made profit somewhere else to offset and want to get out of CSS altogether.

I don't see it as ALL bad news though. There could be some more spawning still but they are burning cash very fast.


----------



## squidlyadams (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Heh, I am in the same boat as you. There is no point in selling now unless you made profit somewhere else to offset and want to get out of CSS altogether.
> 
> I don't see it as ALL bad news though. There could be some more spawning still but they are burning cash very fast.




I am not a huge expert about the sharemarket and bought these as already was a small holder after a mate recommended them a while back. So at the time of the SPP I had just inherited some money and its looks to have been very wisely. Luckily I only invested around 5 % of my total inheritance. Looks like property for me now. Nice and safe.

I believe long term clean seas will succeed. But I am worried about the cash situation.  But the worry has is not as bad as it could have been.  I believe ellice flint will do great things for CSS.  There is no point me selling for a 3k loss. So looks like its a 3 year project for me now.  As long as they dont go bankrupt.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



			
				CSS said:
			
		

> Spawning commenced on 14 January 2010 and intermittent spawning events occurred over the next month. At present, the broodstock are showing positive courting behaviour and may recommence spawning in March as in previous years.




If you add 38 days from 14 January 2010, then you get to Sunday, 21 February 2010.  An announcement about the dying fingerlings could conceivably have been made in mid-February or earlier this week at the very latest.

IMHO, CSS has been treating its shareholders like mushrooms ever since the SPP was completed.

Which reminds me, Paterson Securities underwrote the last SPP and I remember seeing a research note which put a target of $1.33/share from Paterson Securities.  I'm sure there will be a few analysts at that firm a little hot under the collar at the moment.


----------



## AngusSmart (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Ouch, this is something i was looking at getting into the other day to broaden my portfolio..

time to keep watching hopefully they will learn from not letting the investors know whats going on and come good again soon. i then might jump on in


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> If you add 38 days from 14 January 2010, then you get to Sunday, 21 February 2010.  An announcement about the dying fingerlings could conceivably have been made in mid-February or earlier this week at the very latest.
> 
> IMHO, CSS has been treating its shareholders like mushrooms ever since the SPP was completed.
> 
> Which reminds me, Paterson Securities underwrote the last SPP and I remember seeing a research note which put a target of $1.33/share from Paterson Securities.  I'm sure there will be a few analysts at that firm a little hot under the collar at the moment.




Thats a good point with the dates. The trading halt should have been before Monday morning, that would have prevented some of the insiders getting out before the bad news. 

Concerning the other comments that the next possible spawning is good news, Investors know they can spawn SBT, kepping them alive till market size is the current clallenge.


----------



## All a load of .. (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> If you add 38 days from 14 January 2010, then you get to Sunday, 21 February 2010.  An announcement about the dying fingerlings could conceivably have been made in mid-February or earlier this week at the very latest.
> 
> IMHO, CSS has been treating its shareholders like mushrooms ever since the SPP was completed.
> 
> Which reminds me, Paterson Securities underwrote the last SPP and I remember seeing a research note which put a target of $1.33/share from Paterson Securities.  I'm sure there will be a few analysts at that firm a little hot under the collar at the moment.




Well what else do you expect from Paterson’s Securities? They are paid a truck load of cash, or maybe in this case, a truck load of rotting dead fish to say what the client wants.

Maybe it’s about time, that with some obvious skills lacking in due-diligence stockholders and others take the blow-torch to PS? How about asking them to buy the, what now seems to be, worthless stock off you for what you paid? I am sure they were part of the 97m share exodus today.

As for their valuation, if I recall it was only a month or so ago they gave them the BIG thumbs up and a valuation so far above their current (at the time) SP that either the janitor was allowed to put out a report or PS was complacent in concealing what can only amount to fraudulent accounts – given that it has only been a few months since they pumped the market with good figures, numbers and stock levels (fish), or their level of incompetence knows no bounds and they should be held liable for not, well simply, doing a proper job.



McCoy Pauley said:


> The key sentence is this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As someone said, you appear to have some good linguistic skills. However, putting them to one side I think I will wait to join the bandwagon on this one about them all being dead.

Maybe, just maybe I am being a little optimistic – that’s a first for me, I just don’t think that anyone could possible be so naive as to think that if they had died that they could get away without informing the market. Yep, ASIC is a joke, yet they wouldn’t let this little beauty get away if it’s true – pardon the pun.

So, yes, past tense, yet it doesn’t say they are, or have. Which, also makes your assumption for the 'detailed review' just a little putting the cart before the horse.

Unless, of course you know something???

However, at 9 cents and with a $1+ valuation, Christ, sign me up I’ll take a few thousand $’s, cant lose on that one can I? ha!


----------



## tge oracle (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS Investors,

A very disappointing day for everybody Hagen, CSS Workforce, Investors and anybody else associated with the company. 
There are a multitude of reasons why CSS has come to this and it is a bitter irony that someone, someday, will turn the progation of Bluefin Tuna into a viable and very profitile business, unfortnately, I don't believe it will be CSS.
I guess, in hindsight, I should have considered the fact that it has taken Kinki 20 years to propogate and produce aquaculture bred NBT. They have only achieved 1407 fish being moved in to sea pens after starting with 860,000 fertilzed eggs. There are still many years of scientific testing before anybody can dream of commercial quantities of BFT, but CSS have been a pioneer in starting the ball rolling.

Where to from here for remaining investors, well, there is possibly some intrinsic value in infrastructure/stock and possibly IP but this is rapidly being depleted as the company continues to bleed funds. Major investors will sell out ( many did today I suspect ) and leave the remaining stock to speculators ( hedge fund types ) hoping for a distressed asset sale and potential stag profit.
The risk for those still holding is that you stand to lose everthing. CSS will most likely cease trading without warning. 

A very sad outcome for a company I once had great faith and belief in through my interest in aquaculture and , in particular, the sashimi tuna industry.


----------



## tge oracle (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> CSS Investors,
> 
> A very disappointing day for everybody Hagen, CSS Workforce, Investors and anybody else associated with the company.
> There are a multitude of reasons why CSS has come to this and it is a bitter irony that someone, someday, will turn the progation of Bluefin Tuna into a viable and very profitile business, unfortnately, I don't believe it will be CSS.
> ...




I forgot to add that this is my opinion only and that I am not a financial advisor. My comments are not based on any particular factual information just my own prediction after many years of investing experience . DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> CSS Investors,
> 
> A very disappointing day for everybody Hagen, CSS Workforce, Investors and anybody else associated with the company.
> There are a multitude of reasons why CSS has come to this and it is a bitter irony that someone, someday, will turn the progation of Bluefin Tuna into a viable and very profitile business, unfortnately, I don't believe it will be CSS.
> ...




Hi Oracle, Truly a sad outcome, but i am slightly unsure, do you know if all the fingerlings did die? the wording is pretty vauge in the announcement. Do you really think it is the end of CSS? Would selling of the KF and Mulaway stocks generate enough cash to keep the SBT division going. It seems most of their losses since the beginning have been in conventional aquaculture and not the SBT breeding. Unfortunatly i doubt an asset sale will produce much cash as most assets are in the Hatchery and can not be moved and would have very few buyers as a whole. I hope they can survive and pull off closing the SBT life cycle. If the close what will happen to the confidentiality agreements with the staff. (unenfforcable?)


----------



## Nero64 (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If they are using 7 Million a quarter and they had 17Mill at the end of January, that means they will run out of cash in the 4 quarter 2010. 

What do they have to generate money - Anyone care to answer?

Just looking at their financials. 

They have 100 Mill in assets with a book value of .24c which makes them heavily undervalued. 

If they can make some progress with the SBT spawning and rearing and can borrow more money and not tap the market then who knows long term. Can you put up with the paper loss?

I read this and think yeah they died but they are moving forward



> Fertilised SBT eggs were also transferred to SARDI’s facility at West Beach
> for continuing larval rearing trials and the preliminary assessment of the
> SARDI trials is that they have been successful and achieved their objectives.
> The program to date has raised new challenges and the oldest fingerlings
> ...




I think we got screwed when the they made the announcement of the 25c share offer. It should have been 40c and then it would of given us more time. 
I think that was the biggest mistake they made. I don't know what they were thinking but then again the sp would of fallen from there after the Rabo bank support fell through. 

If they are liquidated how much goes to the shareholders? - 10 - 15c ? so is it really worth holding? - Here comes Nick Bolton. God help us!

The all important question is what will the share price do. Now more speculators and scalpers are onto it I see major resistance at 10c. This is no Karoon gas story, this is an AED/CNP/ABS type story. People have lost money and they are hurting. 

I for one take full responsbility. I invested because I like Tuna and saw the potential in this company and saw peoples faith in this thread. I can't blame the company. They are trying to survive. They can't just say yeah we stuffed up and we are incompetent otherwise they will be sued and then they will become bankrupt. 

I saw the warnings signs and had a chance to get out with a profit after the 25c support held and then the January announcement. I did an all or nothing trade and it became nothing. No stop loss even though it was so risky. I predicted support will break and still held it. There is no hope just reality and that is a risky company and a large loss. 

Congratulations to TGE Oracle for posting with honesty and an what turned out to be a stance of wisdom. 

We should all learn from this one. Take your opporutunites when you can don't live with pain and unrealistic expectations because your health will suffer. Mine already has. 

Lets hope the tax man can give a little back this year.


----------



## squidlyadams (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> CSS Investors,
> 
> A very disappointing day for everybody Hagen, CSS Workforce, Investors and anybody else associated with the company.
> There are a multitude of reasons why CSS has come to this and it is a bitter irony that someone, someday, will turn the progation of Bluefin Tuna into a viable and very profitile business, unfortnately, I don't believe it will be CSS.
> ...




My opinion is its not entirely over yet.  Its a very optimistic view but I think a major bonus is Ellice-Flint joining CSS.  There is probably noone better to have currently with the financial problems they are soon to face.  Im willing to lose the leftover $1.5k from my purchase of the $5k package.  It was always an investment where I was going to see out whether they are successful or not.  Hopefully in next 4 quarters something huge develops and plans succeed.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (26 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



All a load of .. said:


> As someone said, you appear to have some good linguistic skills. However, putting them to one side I think I will wait to join the bandwagon on this one about them all being dead.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe I am being a little optimistic – that’s a first for me, I just don’t think that anyone could possible be so naive as to think that if they had died that they could get away without informing the market. Yep, ASIC is a joke, yet they wouldn’t let this little beauty get away if it’s true – pardon the pun.
> 
> ...




The market has assumed from the language used in the report that the fish have died.  I imagine that if some of the fish had survived, then they would have been a lot clearer about that in the report released today.  But they didn't confirm for sure either way but the language used will lead most investors/traders to speculate that the fish died.


----------



## WiseMum (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The fact that there is some uncertainty around whether or not the fish survived is inexcusable.  Bad enough that this news was delayed and advised in the accounts rather than a separate notice to the market when it happened, but then to word it in such a way that it creates speculation is worse still.  

Perhaps some of you saw the article below on Business Spectator last night .....  At least they haven't given up and will give it another go.  If I was holding this stock, I wouldn't sell now.  There might be better opportunities to exit in the next couple of weeks.  Of course, DYOR.  I will continue to watch them and see if Hagen Stehr's middle name might be Lazarus.

From Business Spectator:

"Clean Seas Tuna Ltd loss worsened to $14.2 million for the half-year ended December 31, 2009 compared to $6.7 million previously, on revenue up 48% to $19.3 million.

NTA backing per share is down 24% to 24c.

The company said the worse than expected result has largely arisen as a consequence of the difficulties of the yellowtail kingfish business. The board has made the decision to devote much greater resources to the company's core business, tuna.

Spawning for southern bluefish tuna commenced on January 14 and intermittent spawning events occurred over February. At present the broodstock are showing positive courting behaviour and may recommence spawning in March. However the program has raised new challenges with the oldest fingerlings surviving only to 38 days, when they were actively feeding on live feed. The company purchased tuna quota and is growing out some 70 tonnes of premium quality SBT in pelletised feeding trials.

The company continues its relationship with Kinki University and its research partners. The company has reduced costs in its kingfish business, with price increases implemented in Europe, the US and Australia, bringing to an end loss making sales. On the SBT business, directors are confident lessons learnt from the current spawning will lead to substantial progress in the second half 2010."


----------



## Qjumpa (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

DEAD DEAD DEAD.....ALL DEAD!


*Clean Seas Tuna share price dives over breeding problems Nigel Austin From: *

AdelaideNow February 26, 2010 5:56PM

THE share price of South Australia's Clean Seas Tuna has plummeted by 58 per cent as investors react to a major setback in its tuna breeding program, heavy losses in its kingfish division and a worse-than-expected half-year result. 
Clean Seas reported a $14.16 million net loss for the half-year ended December 31, down 112 per cent on the $6.7 million loss booked in the previous corresponding period.

The result sent its share price down to 9.1c, with 97.8 million shares almost a quarter of those on issue, traded by investors.

The result included a 48 per cent lift in revenue to $19.26 million for the half year, while the net tangible asset backing fell by 24 per cent to 24c a share.

Managing director Clifford Ashby said the half-year loss had arisen largely due to difficulties in its yellowtail kingfish business.

"The company is taking positive steps to scale back those operations to become a profitable and long-term sustainable business," he said.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
A restructure of the kingfish business was pending and the board had made a decision to devote much greater resources to the company's core business, tuna.

Mr Ashby said the 24 per cent cutback in Australia's southern bluefin tuna quota was a timely reminder of the role that Clean Seas would play in helping to protect the natural resource by providing consumers with a sustainable alternative.

Mr Ashby said the tuna breeding program had achieved new breakthroughs including the early start of spawning on January 14 and the successful feeding of live feed to the fingerlings for the first time.

Scientists and vets were continuing investigations into the mortality of fingerlings, which did not survive past 38 days, and they were confident that if the broodstock spawn in March, as they are indicating, the resulting fingerlings will survive.

If they spawn in the first half of March, it would be in time to put fingerlings into the sea before colder weather arrives, but if they spawn in late March or April, the company has the option of putting them into on-land fish tanks at its Arno Bay hatchery before transferring them to the sea next summer.

Clean Seas has also bought 70 tonnes of tuna quota and is growing out the fish in a trial program to test weaning and juvenile pelletised feeds before selling them next year.

"The start of tuna spawning was brought forward by two months which is considered a major advancement by the science community around the world," Mr Ashby said.

"But it was a more intermittent spawning compared to last year and we didn't get the numbers we'd hoped for research and development with the fingerlings surviving for up to 38 days."

Mr Ashby said the kingfish operation suffered a $14.79 million loss in the past six months and the company was looking at every opportunity to reduce costs.


----------



## All a load of .. (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Qjumpa said:


> DEAD DEAD DEAD.....ALL DEAD!




You may be right! Yet this article says nothing (proof) about them being dead, it is simply assuming they are.

As it stands, and maybe something has changed between going to sleep last night and waking this morning, yet the company - in whatever silly way it has, has not confirmed or denied they are "ALL" dead.

I suspect they are, however just because you read it in the paper doesnt make it so.



> Scientists and vets were continuing investigations into the mortality of fingerlings, which did not survive past 38 days, and they were confident that if the broodstock spawn in March, as they are indicating, the resulting fingerlings will survive.




I have to admit that this one is news to me: what scientists and vets? From where? Who are they? Think there is a little creative writing in this article. 

As the CSS document states:



> The larval rearing staff are currently conducting a detailed review of the season to date and are working to further refine procedures and programmes before the next spawning



.

And if we are to play the linguistics game, this only says they are "investigating" the mortality of those that did not survive past 38 days. To me, this doesn’t say they all died.

Once again, I think there might be a lot of truth, to what is being inferred at this stage that they are all dead. However, I would like the company to come clean and tell the stockholders if they are dead, or that some died - and to me I don’t mean 1 or 2, I mean if 40% are dead then we should know about it.

As for me, I brought in at 22cents, so I might as well keep them and see if I get it back, or a little more than the 9cents on offer, or just lose the lot. So, I think these will go into the 10 year stock rebound pile, ha!

If all of this is true - they are dead, and based on some rather dodgy math of mine they have been dead for a few weeks, so we as shareholders as well as others should ensure that ASIC receives as much indignant mail as possible to ensure that this does not go unchecked, that is not keeping the market informed.

I would also suggest that maybe Paterson’s Securities doesn’t get away with, well who knows what to call it, yet I have a few words in mind, for example: incompetence; bewildering ineptitude; dodgy accounting; fictitious research; and the list goes on.


----------



## Qjumpa (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



All a load of .. said:


> .
> 
> As for me, I brought in at 22cents, so I might as well keep them and see if I get it back, or a little more than the 9cents on offer, or just lose the lot. So, I think these will go into the 10 year stock rebound pile, ha!
> 
> ...




I too brought in at .22, i am down over 20K and i'm not rich enough to take a hit like this... turns out i'm just an old fool.

Anyway, this is what a friend of mine said - she said 

*I'm undecided on their long term prospects apart from a bounce trade but I had a chat with Clifford Ashby CEO this evening (he doesn't know me from Adam but was just returning a shareholder query/sledging). Most interesting, apart from the strong cash position evident from the report, is that the company is undertaking forensic testing on the fingerlings which I am told died suddenly and recently. 

As it was explained to me, the current tanks are flushed with fresh sea water every day (opposed to the new tanks which circulate conditioned sea water), so the likely cause of death was disease or contaminant which entered with daily sea water (thus the sudden death) - the company's breeding facilities have since been sterilised. This is a double edged sword. On one hand it could be easy to fix a contamination problem in the breeding stage, especially in their new (circulated, can't remember the term he used) facilities. But A) surely this was a risk for which they were prepared? possibly not well enough? and B)ultimately the little buggers need to man up for the sea cages or there's little point to the spawning in the first place. 

CEO said forensic testing will confirm the cause and this may or may not be announced to the market depending on it's "material affect on the business".

There was lots more discussion about cash burn (well controlled now that business model has/is being refined), future capital raising (none foreseen, hmmm), the lack of clarity in the announcement (ie. we were promised sea cages but these weren't even mentioned - yes they're sorry about that), the excellent state of brood stock both offshore and inland tanks, progress of farmed offshore fish (excellent) and lots about the scope and speed of the tuna market opening up - but too much to put down now in any detail. Actually, much of what was discussed appears in the following article which makes a good start in deciphering today's debacle*



Opinions please??


----------



## tge oracle (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi Oracle, Truly a sad outcome, but i am slightly unsure, do you know if all the fingerlings did die? the wording is pretty vauge in the announcement. Do you really think it is the end of CSS? Would selling of the KF and Mulaway stocks generate enough cash to keep the SBT division going. It seems most of their losses since the beginning have been in conventional aquaculture and not the SBT breeding. Unfortunatly i doubt an asset sale will produce much cash as most assets are in the Hatchery and can not be moved and would have very few buyers as a whole. I hope they can survive and pull off closing the SBT life cycle. If the close what will happen to the confidentiality agreements with the staff. (unenfforcable?)




Hi Basilica,

As far as I am aware all of the fingerlings suffered a mortality event.

I am afraid that, in all likelyhood, CSS will cease trading. I can't invisage any scenario that may prevent this outcome. Even spawning success in March won't prevent their demise in my view. 
The reasons I think they will fail are the following ( not necessrily in order ):

1. SBT - They are able to propogate SBT fingerlings but only very small quantities and the mortality rate is extremely high. They are many years away from commercial  production, I would guess 5-10years at best.

2. YTK - After 5 years they have been unable to develop a profitible YTK business. The growth rates and FCR's are appalling and they will never achieve profitility at this rate. 

3. Bank Support - No bank, in my view , will loan them any money. It is far too high risk for even the most adventurous banks.

4. Institutional and Foundation Support - Without banks the next line defence is the Insto's. With this latest outcome I believe they will sell out of CSS and will not support any further cap raisings. Even foundation investors like Simplot will desert CSS.

5. Retail Investors - Badly burnt by lack of progress and a plummeting share price even the most stoic investors will be reluctant to provide more funds.


I am sorry I can't paint a more optimistic view for remaining holders but I can only tell it as I see it. 
I am no longer invested in CSS so my views are not that of a holder but I can say that I will definately not be buying any CSS shares no matter what the price.

History tells us that very few companies in this position survive. Even the last hope of a White Knight is unlikely because I can't see how they would benefit from purchasing CSS.


Please DYOR and carefully consider all the facts.


----------



## Basilica (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Qjumpa said:


> I too brought in at .22, i am down over 20K and i'm not rich enough to take a hit like this... turns out i'm just an old fool.
> 
> Anyway, this is what a friend of mine said - she said
> 
> ...




Hi Qjumpa, You bought in at 22c so you are a lot better off than investors who bought at $1.70. Not such an old fool 

I am surprised they are using tanks that are flushed daily from the sea for such important stock. They newer system is called Recirculating (your friend was close) Basically a two stage filter, mechanical first to remove solid particals then biological to convert harmfull substances into safer ones. Nitrite into Nitrate is one conversion and sterilising like UV or ozone. The surprising thing is at less than 32 days old the tanks are quite small and not that dear. 

But mass mortalities do happen in Aquaculture and when it happens it is much better to happen to fingerlings rather then market sise fish.


The annoying thing to me is the cash burn on the YTK side. They seemed to have slowed in their growth rate and had higher mortalities than expected. The remaining cash would go a long way if used in the hatchery. The 160 staff is a big overhead and presumable mostly for the YTK side of things. If YTK division can break even quickly it would be a big relief.

I think the end is far from certain but Aquaculture is a tough business and even Tassal was reborn from the hands of the reciever


----------



## Basilica (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Hi Basilica,
> 
> As far as I am aware all of the fingerlings suffered a mortality event.
> 
> ...




I am not so certain that CSS will cease trading.
In your order.

1. Yes it will take a long time to commercial SBT. Most scientists in the industry knew this. Hagens Hype was not helpfull and created unrelistic investor expectations. 

2. Totally agree about the YTK. a disaster from the beginning. 

3. Bank support will be difficult but Hagen is cashed up especcially after selling lots of assets to CSS and should chip in if only to save face in his community.

4. I agree they will sell if they have not sold already and will not buy back in.

5. retail investors will be reluctant and the ones that are already burnt and left will not try again, But others will for the right price. 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 or 1/10 asset value.

"History tells us that very few companies in this position survive"

History tells us that public companies that have cash in the bank and do not have debt do survive. You may need to clarify your line.

I have made no secret that i may be a shareholder some time but are waiting for the right time to buy in. That time is closer now than it was at $1.70. But now is just a little to risky for me.


----------



## Basilica (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A couple questions i need to be answered by others.

1  Has the 6.5 million $ recirculating system been paid for yet or does that need to come out of the cash in bank? I cant find the specifics.


2. What was the value of Hagens initial investment in CSS?


----------



## tge oracle (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> "History tells us that very few companies in this position survive"
> 
> History tells us that public companies that have cash in the bank and do not have debt do survive. You may need to clarify your line.





Basilica,

What needs to be considered is that CSS will soon deplete this cash balance. They have a rapidly diminishing source of revenue from YTK , reading between the lines, this is dramatically falling. They have 160+ staff and broodstock SBT which require immense funds to keep operational. Judging by the cash burn rate in the results I suspect this cash burn rate is increasing exponentially and the CSS board won't let the company become insolvent.
Cash in the bank is meaningless if you have very little revenue and a substantial cost burden. The only way they will avert suspension from trading would be to conduct a significant Cap raising, this won't be supported by investors I don't believe, or Hagen. As the saying goes " you can't flog a dead horse"

There will be no pre-warning, ringing of bells, last call etc. you will just wake up one morning to see a notice on the ASX - CSS suspended from trading. That will be it , then it's over to the administrators to determine what's left for investors, if anything!
There will probably be some wild fluctuations , by day traders , in the next week / weeks but it will be a case of pass the parcel and don't get caught holding when it happens. 


DYOR everybody.


----------



## Basilica (27 February 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basilica,
> 
> What needs to be considered is that CSS will soon deplete this cash balance. They have a rapidly diminishing source of revenue from YTK , reading between the lines, this is dramatically falling. They have 160+ staff and broodstock SBT which require immense funds to keep operational. Judging by the cash burn rate in the results I suspect this cash burn rate is increasing exponentially and the CSS board won't let the company become insolvent.
> Cash in the bank is meaningless if you have very little revenue and a substantial cost burden. The only way they will avert suspension from trading would be to conduct a significant Cap raising, this won't be supported by investors I don't believe, or Hagen. As the saying goes " you can't flog a dead horse"
> ...




What you say is true, Stopping the rate of cash burn is critical and difficult but possible. If CSS does not take on debt they will have time to complete the SBT life cycle. Share holder value will continue to decline with further Cap raising but that on its own will not close it down. Hagens cash position in CSS is possibly positive when all related party transaction are taken into account. He may offer support. so long as it is not in the form of a loan secured by assets is ok by me. Sell down the YTK stocks and flog of the cages hagen sold to CSS and the new feed barge and you could buy 5 years with only minor cap raising. Enough time to close the cycle and have a SBT hatchery selling fingerlings to others. This is just one of many possible downsizing plots.


----------



## oldblue (1 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Here's The Australian's report on the situation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ter-profit-slump/story-e6frg8zx-1225835355505


----------



## steveba5 (1 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I think the public and especially the shareholders deserve a to hear what the company has to say.  We all thought this company was a sure thing when John Ellice-Flint came on board but maybe he got lucky at Santos as any resources company could have done well during the resources boom when he was at the helm.  Maybe the board members should all show how confident they are and buy a million shares each.
2 big problems now.  CSS's risk assessment clearly hasn't worked.  The fingerlings dying problem should have been fixed anticipated and fixed before it happened.  Need to be proactive.  
And the other is that they appear to be set up to do big things in terms of infrastructure and staff but they have nothing to do with it all now that the little ones are dead.  They're going to keep burning through cash like there is no tomorrow.  All their eggs (not many left may I add) are in the one basket now with little time to get it right.  
Still holding.....just.   DYOR-look what happens when you trust the "experts".
Any opinions on what the SP will do today?


----------



## Basilica (1 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



steveba5 said:


> 1.  We all thought this company was a sure thing when John Ellice-Flint came on board but maybe he got lucky at Santos as any resources company could have done well during the resources boom when he was at the helm.
> 
> 2 big problems now.  CSS's risk assessment clearly hasn't worked.  The fingerlings dying problem should have been fixed anticipated and fixed before it happened.  Need to be proactive.
> 
> ...




Hi Steveba5, i numbered some the points in your post i can answer.

1. The stockmarket has no sure things. And small caps trying ground breaking research that have never made a profit are very high risk with high potential returns. This thread has been full of unrelistic claims and i have tried to level out the fluffy comments for well over a year. And coped lots of flack for my effort. 

2. Fingerlings dying was anticipated and has happened twice before but this is the first time it was announced to investors. The other times we just had the lack of "Hatchery bred Tuna now 2kg" announcement to go on. Mortalities are normal although i am stunned they were using a flow through system with little to no disease control.

3. So true and this is what i  am concerned about. The grow out side of the business started as a disaster and has been going downhill since. CSS bought the grow out from Hagen when it was losing money. The low FCR and yet to be disclosed qty of YTK mortalities is the real issue for CSS survival.
If they concentrated only on the SBT hatchery I think they will succeed.

4. I dont know. But the Mums and Dads only heard the news on the weekend had had no chance to sell on friday.


----------



## Sdajii (1 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, I sold out today, for an appalling 66% loss, by far the worst trade I have been unfortunate enough to make so far, although I realise many people bought in much higher than I did.

I feel a bit naive for having as much faith in CSS as I did. They had a track record of poor updates, but I thought the business plan was promising regardless. Unfortunately, their (in my opinion) criminal lack of updates with their delay in informing the market of the deaths, quite likely to allow their insiders to sell out before the news was out is inexcusable. IP was an excuse used for lack of updates, but to stay quiet about the deaths was completely deplorable, and to top it off, it was done without a trading halt. Anyone feeling angry about the situation has good reason.

Presumably the deaths were caused by disease. By 38 days the fish should be very easy to raise. If they are are seriously susceptible to disease like that I have concerns about what they are going to catch when put into the offshore cages. More care should have been taken to keep the incoming water safe, perhaps their massive cash burn caused them to try to cut corners. They probably don't have many corners left to cut, and they certainly aren't in a happy cash position. I can't see fund raising being successful now, so my guess is that they'll either go bankrupt, get bought out, or bring in a partner. Bankruptcy looks like my current guess.

If things had gone well we might have seen spectacular results, but this setback is severe and perhaps terminal. It's possible that had they simply been more careful with disease prevention they might have ended up with their 25,000 SBT off to Japan in the near future, but now it looks like they will only get the chance to have a go at that next year if they get a large amount of extra money... and I can't see where that might come from. If they ever turn a profit it isn't likely to be soon, and isn't going to be a smooth ride.

I wish I had sat back and watched until CSS had closed the life cycle in good numbers and had enough cash on hand to get them through to a profitable stage, which now seems likely never to happen.

Good luck to those still holding, although with this final display of incompetence and insult to the investors, I can't say I would want to be sticking around even if I thought things were looking promising if it meant financially backing these people.


----------



## sashimi (1 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

So what went wrong.

This business is like any other business and its called location location location.

If you care to compare other breeding projects around the world with this one there is one glaring difference,
All the others are on, or nearby natural spawning grounds.

This location was chosen because of its proximity to home ie Port Lincoln and the close relationship with politicians and the strong emotional content of Australians wishing to save the species.
My guess is most people purchased because of the emotional content

The whole Australian fishing industry was wiped out in 30 years because politicians who didn’t then and don’t now have any idea. It’s easy to sell a politician especially when there is brownie points for them and when he/she doesn’t have a clue.

In the end breeding tuna will be quiet simple but it requires instinct not science.

We have all become beholden to scientists but do they really know what they are doing. (Take climate Change for example)

In Australia most of them are employed by government agencies and as such are never going to speak out.   

As far as hiding behind intellectual property rights!  How can they possibly have an intellectual property right that has any value when Kali Tuna ( which belongs to Tony Santic) has spawned tuna naturally.

The adhoc GNRHA implant that is used is far from a secret.  A chemical compound that is attached to the outside flesh of the fish by an experienced diver using a spear is far from a secret.

Further no one seems to have got to the point of the requirement that is necessary to adapt fish to local conditions.

You cannot just take them from hot water to cold water, that alone will kill them immediately. They first must be acclimatized and slowly. 

If you care to have a close look at tuna spawning grounds around the world, they are all in areas of warm water, they all have calm weather, and above all they all congregate in area’s where the water is very deep.

The Achotines Laboratory in Panama has been spawning captive yellowfin tuna for years but there are still no adult tuna spawned and grown into captivity  
The question is why? 

http://www.iattc.org/AchotinesLab/AchotinesLaboratoryHistoryENG.htm

How you expect to pull it off in a tank defies logic.
This is a pelagic fish that is used to and has adapted to wide open spaces and has a  schooling behavior that has to be addressed. 
Schooling behavior is a mechanism that protects the fish from predators especially when young.

You should also note that tuna have a approx 5% negative buoyancy this allows them to rest by aqua planning over long distances in deep water. They have the most perfect shape to aqua plane when you add negative buoyancy.

Every time I see the young fish swimming around they only remind me of spooked fish, frightened to the death.

My guess is the company will be hand in hand with the Government for a bail out,
This government has a policy of money for nothing.  So do not despair    yet .!!!!!!

As far as 25,000 tonnes of fish are concerned  with the attitude of CSS they are in dream time.

Not a share holder YET!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Sean K (1 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

 is it correct that the fingerlings died after 38 days ish but this was not reported? 

Oh dear. That's not market sensitive at all. eeeek


----------



## oldblue (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Comment from the company.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ds-breeding-plan/story-e6frg8zx-1225835815457

Discl: Not holding.


----------



## tge oracle (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS Investors,

Having read today's Australian report I now think they will go for a Cap Raising.....and probably sooner rather than later as I can't help thinking Mr Ashby's remarks about delaying spawning until next year as a "slip of the tongue". I am sure Hagen and Patersons would have preferred that investors believe a March spawn was a possibility and, hence, an appreciation in the SP throughout March. Mr Ashby has poured cold water on that possibility in a momentary lapse of honesty....quite unlike CSS really!

Anyway, if I were a holder ( I am not ) I would look for one very critical sign if a CapRaising was on offer and that is that the Stehrs take up their full entitlement and do not dilute any further. If they don't it is a clear signal that they don't have confidence in success next year and they would be gradually transferring risk to shareholders.
I can see no benefit in participating in a Cap Raising. You will get to purchase  shares on market later in the year and will have the benefit of sitting on the sidelines when the annual report comes out which I think will be very ugly.

Patersons stand to make a lot of money from yet another Cap Raising , view their price target with an appropriate degree of sceptisism.

Once again - my opinion only, DYOR.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Somehow, I'm not surprised that the ASX has not bothered to issue a "please explain" to CSS regarding the timing of CSS' announcements to the market concerning the survival rates of the fingerlings.

Tge oracle - I'm led to believe by a mate who is a holder of CSS shares (I am not) that the Stehrs did not participate in the most recent cap raising. He (and therefore I) may very well be mistaken, but the fact of the matter is that the most recent cap raising was undersubscribed and Patersons has just worn a considerable loss on the share price.  I wouldn't trust their valuation whatsoever.


----------



## oldblue (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Bear in mind though that major shareholders don't always have the means to take up entitlements in share issues, whatever their level of confidence in the company concerned.

This can be particularly so where a disproportionate amount of their wealth is already invested in the company and where that investment isn't returning an income.

I don't hold shares in CSS, nor am I familiar with the financial affairs of the parties involved.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Share price up 2c today so far to add to a useful gain yesterday.  Still trading at a fair discount to what it traded at prior to Friday's announcement.


----------



## Basilica (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> Share price up 2c today so far to add to a useful gain yesterday.  Still trading at a fair discount to what it traded at prior to Friday's announcement.




In the Australian they refered to it as a "Dead Fish Bounce" 
Thanks for the link oldblue.
but still good to see it has support, maybe speculators.
The volume is curious
Fri = 100m
Mon = 50m
tue = 25m   (not over yet)
Half the previous days volume.

When will the big investors announce a change in holding if they sold on friday?
Macquarie and AMP


----------



## Nero64 (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Read the article. 

The company is saying that the fingerlings dying is just a cliche and it can be overcome. 

Patterson's still believe in the fundamentals of the tuna business cycle are in place and see a buying opportunity. Target reduce to $1. Maybe one day it will get there  if it doesn't go broke first. 

As I type the share price hits 14c and it could potentially go higher in the next few days probably before falling after the scalpers move on. It would be ironic to see it get over 25c again in this mad rush. 

I sold out today the last of my positon. I may regret it but my mistake was made long before the fall so I deserve to lose on this one. I sold out primarily not on the fingerlings dying or the loss in profit; I sold out because of the alarming statements made by the auditors. The inflow and outflow of cash in any business is critical and without it there is just too much risk. 

I bet some of the old timers and botton feeders (who bought in under 8c) will stick it through. Sometimes it's the best way to trade - Buying off those in the red who want out at all cost.


----------



## Basilica (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Nero64 said:


> Read the article.
> 
> The company is saying that the fingerlings dying is just a cliche and it can be overcome.
> 
> ...




What price did you buy in at Nero64?
The fingerling deaths were not a mojor concern to me either. Kinki and Pananma have lost hundreds of tuna spawns between them. The market should not have been greased up to expect a break through so soon. Hiding the deaths deep in the report did not help either.
Cash flow is the issue, as you stated.


----------



## Nero64 (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> What price did you buy in at Nero64?
> The fingerling deaths were not a mojor concern to me either. Kinki and Pananma have lost hundreds of tuna spawns between them. The market should not have been greased up to expect a break through so soon. Hiding the deaths deep in the report did not help either.
> Cash flow is the issue, as you stated.




53c initially
Then traded for a week around that price then went into a trading halt then to my horror fell to 25c.   
I didn't buy in at 25c because I wanted to hear about the spawning results and didn't want to risk. All I need was a 2c move to get my money back if I took up 15K worth. 

When the results came out in Jan I didn't act until later in the day despite seeing it rise through 29c. I bought a heap at 31c to average my buy in at 32c. 

That same day I put in a limit order to sell at 31.5c (becuase I didn't feel good about the lack of forward movement) just below the day high of 32.5c. It hit 31.5 several times but my order was too far back in the queue. I made the mistake of making it a day only order so when it traded at 31.5 the next day I wasn't filled again. 

I then watched it slowly fall the next few weeks. I stubbonly hung on then the interim came out and next thing I know it was at 7.5c. 

Errors compounded by errors. It has changed my thinking totally. It's a shame becuse I have become a better trader by using stop losses but I tried to treat this one as an investment not a trade and I got burnt. Lost 60% of capital invested. 

I closed out all my losing trades yesterday except one. It's time to think and reasess.


----------



## tge oracle (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



oldblue said:


> Bear in mind though that major shareholders don't always have the means to take up entitlements in share issues, whatever their level of confidence in the company concerned.
> 
> This can be particularly so where a disproportionate amount of their wealth is already invested in the company and where that investment isn't returning an income.
> 
> I don't hold shares in CSS, nor am I familiar with the financial affairs of the parties involved.




I understand what you are saying Oldblue, but CSS is at a crtical stage of its very existence. It is CSS's lack of disclosure and integrity in reporting that is of great concern to investors. The Sterhrs know exactly what the true state of CSS's financial affairs are and if they truly believe CSS has a viable future they could easily structure a deal through a broker or institutional investor whereby the shares could be sold back once the company had achieved a viable / profitible future. I just don't buy the excuse about lack of funds or holding too much stock. I now completely understand why they didn't participate to their full entitlement in the last Cap Raising .......it should be a flashing red warning light to investors if they fail to do so at the next Cap Raising.


----------



## Rainmaker2000 (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I feel for all holders........I can reassure you that I've been in the trenches with you.......

While I would never buy a stock like this.........I chow down on raw kingfish at my local sushi bar every second day.......you guys got to try that raw kingfish.......it's kind of sweet.......next to the tuna sesemi.......it's definitely my favourite...

Regarding this stock........realise your losses.......get a prompt divi from the tax man......and plough it in to some stocks with cash flows piling up.....

You can even move into Tassal Salmon.......at a ridiculously low price at moment.........While I own a large chunk of them........I will be happy to welcome you all as shareholding brothers and sisters

Sure Tassal had a flat profit result......domestic Salmon sales up 20%......that would have gone to bottom line but they want to keep growing their own fish........that's what you got to like......management that favours long term over short.

Mgment of this company obviously has a good laugh about their small shareholding family.....the door closes on the meeting......the directors compare paychecks......pour a bit of whiskey out........and have a good laugh .....they issue press releases when the fish spawn........and let you undertake applied linguistic classes when the fish expire.......

You should send these guys a message.......and give away this casino game operated by people who act like they are running a going concern........


----------



## Basilica (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Nero64 said:


> 53c initially
> Then traded for a week around that price then went into a trading halt then to my horror fell to 25c.
> .




You and others are a victim of Hagen's Hype You should send him a bill for your losses along with some of his quotes



tge oracle said:


> The Sterhrs know exactly what the true state of CSS's financial affairs are and if they truly believe CSS has a viable future they could easily structure a deal through a broker or institutional investor whereby the shares could be sold back once the company had achieved a viable / profitible future. I just don't buy the excuse about lack of funds or holding too much stock. I now completely understand why they didn't participate to their full entitlement in the last Cap Raising .......it should be a flashing red warning light to investors if they fail to do so at the next Cap Raising.




Do investors know before hand if they particate in cap raising before they have to commit?
Do you know what happened to the Growfish.com.au web site? they are offline and a  google search found no reports later than  december last year?


----------



## Nero64 (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Interesting reading at this forum:

http://www.topstocks.com.au/stock_discussion_forum.php?action=searchgo&searchtype=fid&fid=1917

They seem to think it will get to high teens and possibly 20c by the end of the week. 

Traders don't care about the lack of money they just see it going up!

I would hold out if you still own. You have nothing to lose. It's not going to go broke tomorrow. 

I wonder if the DOW tanking one night will stop the upward run.


----------



## Basilica (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Nero64 said:


> Interesting reading at this forum:
> 
> http://www.topstocks.com.au/stock_discussion_forum.php?action=searchgo&searchtype=fid&fid=1917
> 
> ...




There certainly is lots of interest from the traders there. they will all sell quickly though.  They are not investors for the long run


----------



## Nero64 (2 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> You and others are a victim of Hagen's Hype You should send him a bill for your losses along with some of his quotes




Hagen's not to blame. We are. Nothing is certain. Any share is risky. 

If you want low risk there are banks to park your money in. 

Only the weak and feeble minded make excuses and blame others - No offence. Only the parasitic lawyers and politicians profit from such behaviour.


----------



## WiseMum (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Take a look at their ASX response.  Particularly curious is their belief that "... the company did not believe that these deaths were material in the context that this seasons's spawning program was still in progress ..."
Amazing!  They must have known that this was a critical success factor in the eyes of investors.


----------



## Sdajii (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



WiseMum said:


> Take a look at their ASX response.  Particularly curious is their belief that "... the company did not believe that these deaths were material in the context that this seasons's spawning program was still in progress ..."
> Amazing!  They must have known that this was a critical success factor in the eyes of investors.




Don't be silly; it doesn't matter whether or not the babies die. What does that have to do with their ability to grow them up?

Apparently the loss of the Kingfish and Mulloway was not materially important either. Go figure! Maybe I'll next be seeing oil companies saying that a lack of oil coming from a well is not really materially important. Just having the well is the important bit, right?

I'm surprised they have the nerve to say they believe that the death of all this season's fish was not material.

Perhaps even more surprising is that they claim that until the day before the release, they had no idea that this years profitability was going to be more than 10% lower than last year's! If that was actually true I'd expect them to be denied the right to run a business due to a severe lack of competence.

We'll see if the regulators have any teeth. I suspect not. More likely we'll be seeing a report on the news about a mob in South Australia carrying pitch forks and torches.

If they were as good at breeding tuna as they are at coming up with progressively more transparent and ridiculous lies, we would all be enjoying sashimi right now.


----------



## dkam (3 March 2010)

*Response to ASX Appendix 4D Query 03/03/2010*

Re. Response to ASX Appendix 4D Query 03/03/2010

If the last fish died on the 24 Feb and it 'may' be "too late to have the finigerlings put to sea in cages", then I assume the directors would have known several days earlier that an event material to the Company had occurred.


----------



## Basilica (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



WiseMum said:


> Take a look at their ASX response.  Particularly curious is their belief that "... the company did not believe that these deaths were material in the context that this seasons's spawning program was still in progress ..."
> Amazing!  They must have known that this was a critical success factor in the eyes of investors.




A pretty dodgy response in my opinion WiseMum. 
The YTK and Mulloway deaths are known almost imediatly. Fish either float or sink. If the float they are collected from the surface if the sink they are collected from "Mortality Boxes" from under the cages. They know before the whole cage is graded. The slow growth is also know by regular sampling a number of fish and weighing them. Not as accurate but a dam good indication.

Regarding the death of the SBT fingerlings not affecting the buisness because they might spawn more eggs and the new eggs might live.
What a joke. Of course it was a critical success factor. If the announcement of the spawn sends the price up surley thier deaths would have an affect.


----------



## Basilica (3 March 2010)

*Re: Response to ASX Appendix 4D Query 03/03/2010*



dkam said:


> Re. Response to ASX Appendix 4D Query 03/03/2010
> 
> If the last fish died on the 24 Feb and it 'may' be "too late to have the finigerlings put to sea in cages", then I assume the directors would have known several days earlier that an event material to the Company had occurred.




The announcement should have been made when above normal mortalities occured and not after the last one died. Pre-commercial trials can not take place with one fish. This may have been days or weeks earlier before the last one died.


----------



## Sdajii (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Regarding the death of the SBT fingerlings not affecting the buisness because they might spawn more eggs and the new eggs might live.
> What a joke. Of course it was a critical success factor. If the announcement of the spawn sends the price up surley thier deaths would have an affect.




Don't be ridiculous! The mortality rate was only 100%. I'm no professor of mathematics, but 100 is a tiny number compared to 25,000, so it's hardly materially important.[/sarcasm]

Even if they do get more babies now (but don't count your eggs before they're even spawned, especially when CSS is in charge), they will be too young to go to the sea cages before winter, so even in best case scenario (extremely unlikely, let's face it) it will be another year before they can test the SBT growth in sea cages, they're going to run out of money well before the next spawning, and finding someone to trust CSS with more money is going to be tough. At this rate the geneticists will engineer a tree to produce tuna before CSS closes the life cycle.

On the off chance that they do succeed now, capital raising is likely to dilute the price to much lower than it is sitting currently (though it's dropping as I type), so the only reason I can see to pay current prices is the hope that in liquidation you'll get more than you paid.

I think Stehr was probably being honest when he said you need to be "sick in the head" to be working on this project.


----------



## Basilica (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Don't be ridiculous! The mortality rate was only 100%. I'm no professor of mathematics, but 100 is a tiny number compared to 25,000, so it's hardly materially important.[/sarcasm]
> 
> At this rate the geneticists will engineer a tree to produce tuna before CSS closes the life cycle.
> 
> ...




 Great line about fish on trees. 

The cap raising has previously halved the share price and diluted current holders could next time be worse?

Was he refering to investors or workers being "Sick in the head"


----------



## Sdajii (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Great line about fish on trees.




Glad I hooked you with that one.

(sorry)




> Was he refering to investors or workers being "Sick in the head"




I think he was referring exclusively to himself actually.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I can understand why CSS is saying that they don't think the deaths of the fingerlings is a material event - it's a calculated bluff that the ASX lacks the motivation to go any harder.  The share price has fallen 11% today after the announcement was released to the market but I suspect that it would have fallen further and harder if CSS admitted they made a mistake in not disclosing to the market earlier that the fingerlings had died.


----------



## Basilica (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> At this rate the geneticists will engineer a tree to produce tuna before CSS closes the life cycle.




This could be the start of a new company.
Think of the potential.
When you harvest you also get the wood to cook or smoke them.
Profit will be high as you dont need expensive feed.
Even the vegans will love it.
I can sell the land in a related party transaction (indipendantly valued of course)
Patent still open and does not require proof it will work.
The investors will love it
What could possibly go wrong!


----------



## tge oracle (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

All of you guy's/girl's have pretty much summed it up with your comments, if nothing else, I am pleased to see that investors can now understand the concerns I had with CSS last year and have an opportunity to act accordingly.

One burning question that has not been answered by anybody, most notably CSS, is how many fingerlings did they produce from the 25mill larvae last year. All we ever saw was a couple of dozen fingerlings on a youtube footage and then , about 6-8mths later, someone holding a fish of about 1-2kg. I can't understand why the ASX didn't ask for more information on last years spawning, in my view, this was just as material as this years mortalities.
We had no information on mortality rates what so ever leading into this seasons spawning.

If I were an investor, I would be making a detailed submission/complaint to the ASX and ASIC requesting that they investigate this company further. Failure to do so will undermine my confidence in our financial regulators and administrators. If they failed to act, I would send my submission to the financial services ombudsman.


----------



## Basilica (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hey TGE oracle Do you know what happened to the Growfish.com.au web site? they are offline and a google search found no reports later than december last year?


----------



## tge oracle (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hey TGE oracle Do you know what happened to the Growfish.com.au web site? they are offline and a google search found no reports later than december last year?




Basilica,

No, I don't, but I have been wondering what is going on. I was assuming they were undertaking a website upgrade and would re-launch soon....alas, we are still waiting. I too, use this site for aquaculture information, news reports and reference material.


----------



## Bigukraine (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Rainmaker2000 said:


> I feel for all holders........I can reassure you that I've been in the trenches with you.......
> 
> While I would never buy a stock like this.........I chow down on raw kingfish at my local sushi bar every second day.......you guys got to try that raw kingfish.......it's kind of sweet.......next to the tuna sesemi.......it's definitely my favourite...
> 
> ...




good tip Tassal salmon not many growth hormones in this product at all is there??????? used to love smoked salmon from tassie but not anymore ps might have the hormone thing wrong ANTIBIOTICS was what i should of said


----------



## Sdajii (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



McCoy Pauley said:


> I can understand why CSS is saying that they don't think the deaths of the fingerlings is a material event - it's a calculated bluff that the ASX lacks the motivation to go any harder.  The share price has fallen 11% today after the announcement was released to the market but I suspect that it would have fallen further and harder if CSS admitted they made a mistake in not disclosing to the market earlier that the fingerlings had died.




I think you're spot on. There is a good chance they will get away with the blatant lie, and if they don't, they'll be in no more (probably less actually) trouble than if they admitted they had knowingly done the wrong thing. 

Everyone talks about the regulators being useless. This will be a good demonstration of whether or not action will be taken in a blatantly obvious case of wrongdoing. If they get away with it in this case we might as well start that tuna tree company up.


----------



## sashimi (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Can anybody shed any light on what might happen if Clean Seas Tuna has any frozen eggs put to one side.

Who might own these eggs if they show up somewhere else on the planet


----------



## Miner (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

My Good ness in one day so far 3.05 Pm WST there have been 17 posts (18 including mine now) on this Tuna Fish thread

Looks like all of the contributors are intested in catching tuna and some how the company forgot about the dead tuna eggs until they started to stink and smelly 

Do not hold or excepting eating salmon, tuna, and others, I have no interest in fishy shares. Just accidentally saw this thread and price jump in tipping competetion thread  by BERTY got me interested. the price down on Friday certainly helped Berty to gain the top position and there is nothing fishy about it 

enjoy fishing and LOL


----------



## derty (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Miner said:


> Just accidentally saw this thread and price jump in tipping competetion thread  by BERTY got me interested. the price down on Friday certainly helped Berty to gain the top position and there is nothing fishy about it



As I said in the comp thread, what a difference a day makes.

I only wish my actual holdings were looking as healthy as my competition figure


----------



## Basilica (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> Can anybody shed any light on what might happen if Clean Seas Tuna has any frozen eggs put to one side.
> 
> Who might own these eggs if they show up somewhere else on the planet




Hi sashimi,
Never heard of any freezing of fish eggs of any species.
You would still have the same or worse problem turning them into fish when thawed.
They would still be the property of Clean Seas.
You can get a supply of fertilised YFT eggs from Panama for free or a donation depending on your use. Thier tuna are constantly spawning but have not progressed to commercial size.
http://www.iattc.org/HomeENG.htm

Do you know of frozen eggs in the fridge?


----------



## tge oracle (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Further refelecting on today's announcement I now believe they have just written their own epitaph and it describes a sad litany of deception, dishonesty and a total lack of coprporate integrity, all of which, are essential ingredients in running a viable and profitible entity. 
It is of no comfort to the faithfull invetsors who have supported them over the years, however, it is poetic justice that they should fall victim to their own indiscretion.

Today's admission will result in even the most risk tolerant traders and speculators, who have been pumping the stock up for the past few days, deserting the stock as the volume trade and volitility will disappear.

Thankyou, Mr.Knight for being forced to report the truth and not being given the opportunity to lure more unsuspecting investors into the abyss that is CSS.
Your companies richly deserved award from TIME magazine has been truly overshadowed by this deplorable lack of coporate integrity.

CSS investors have every right to be angry and disappointed but it the CSS workers and families who stand to lose the most. It is they, I feel most sorry for.


----------



## marklar (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hey TGE oracle Do you know what happened to the Growfish.com.au web site? they are offline and a google search found no reports later than december last year?




The Wayback machine has the last update as 18 July 2008, see http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.growfish.com.au

m.


----------



## Miner (3 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



derty said:


> As I said in the comp thread, what a difference a day makes.
> 
> I only wish my actual holdings were looking as healthy as my competition figure




Sorry Derty

did not want to rub salt.

But fishing industry as far as sharemarket goes most of the times is fishy.

There was a float called Western King Fish or something released with much fun fare about two (?) years back. I think the company now got bank rupted or making huge loss.

Unfortunately for fun CSS could be okay but for serious money I will stay out .


----------



## Basilica (4 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



marklar said:


> The Wayback machine has the last update as 18 July 2008, see http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.growfish.com.au
> 
> m.




Thanks marklar, I emailed then and recieved a response last night. They will be online again in a couple of weeks. Growfish.com.au is an exellent daily archive of all fishy news arround the world. Recomended reading.


----------



## sashimi (4 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Bascilica

Fish Eggs do get transported around the world,  if they are not frozen then how? ( I am sorry but I don't know the answer this and i am very interested to know)

Intellectual Property Right.

Where in this business does the Intellectual Property Right reside.

It cannot be in induced spawning because that's not a secret.
If you are in the right location and have the correct attitude they spawn naturally.

Hagen has on many occasions on public record stated that if he didn't get his way he would pack up and move to Marutius.

Question is from a practical level how could you achieve this.

So lets take Maritius as an example.

An attempt to breed southern bluefin tuna requires at mininium two things 
1)  Brood stock, in this case readily available in Port Lincoln and at present no where else in the southern hemisphere.
2) A ready supply of eggs and sperm or fertilized eggs.

If I was to purchase the research centre in Marutius all i would need to begin is a ready supply of eggs and I could start again.  Just contact Clean Seas ask them to supply eggs pay them some money and away i go.

The first point is  Clean Seas Tuna have hid behind disclosure on the grounds of Intellectual Property Right. 

The second point is, if as the company says, its protecting its property right for sale for the future.  You must have something to sell.
In this case its either eggs or brood stock and as Kali tuna are finding they only have to be in the right location and the right attitude to get spawning tuna at little or no cost.

No breeding project is going to take place anywhere in the world without one or the other,  or both.

 My question is, can anybody shed any light on what this property right might be and where it might reside.


If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East  you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare.


----------



## Basilica (4 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

*Hi sashimi my answers are in bold*


Fish Eggs do get transported around the world,  if they are not frozen then how? ( I am sorry but I don't know the answer this and i am very interested to know)

*I am unaware of any FERTILISED eggs being frozen including human eggs, unfertilised eggs have no value except during the spawning and fertilisation. Not hard to transport fertilised eggs Just send some water and O2 as well *

Intellectual Property Right.
Where in this business does the Intellectual Property Right reside.
It cannot be in induced spawning because that's not a secret.
If you are in the right location and have the correct attitude they spawn naturally.

*You got it, basically just in generating spawning conditions in an unnatural location, but it sounds great to investors*

Question is from a practical level how could you achieve this.

So lets take Maritius as an example.

An attempt to breed southern bluefin tuna requires at mininium two things 
1)  Brood stock, in this case readily available in Port Lincoln and at present no where else in the southern hemisphere.
2) A ready supply of eggs and sperm or fertilized eggs.

If I was to purchase the research centre in Marutius all i would need to begin is a ready supply of eggs and I could start again.  Just contact Clean Seas ask them to supply eggs pay them some money and away i go.

*This is a forum for discussing CSS, I am really unsure if discussing becomming a competitor has a place here. I need some feedback from others if it is too OT to discuss. I will PM you my email address as i do find it interesting*

The first point is  Clean Seas Tuna have hid behind disclosure on the grounds of Intellectual Property Right. 

The second point is, if as the company says, its protecting its property right for sale for the future.  You must have something to sell.
In this case its either eggs or brood stock and as Kali tuna are finding they only have to be in the right location and the right attitude to get spawning tuna at little or no cost.

No breeding project is going to take place anywhere in the world without one or the other,  or both.

 My question is, can anybody shed any light on what this property right might be and where it might reside.

*IP is a secret owned by CSS and as tuna spawning has taken place for nearly 20 years in Panama where the conditions are right. In that time the oldest reached about 100 days before dying. I assume thier IP is concerning spawning SBT at thier location. But they do not have to and have not declared what area thier IP is concerning. Their advantage is they have a head start over others breeding SBT but are a long way behing others breeding other varieties of tuna*

If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East  you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare

*Not sure about your point here*


----------



## sashimi (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
I think Kinki Uni. and then compare

Not sure about your point here

The point here is to 
a) further inform
b) demonstrate how different the approach to this problem is when looked at from the Japanese point of view.


----------



## tge oracle (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> If you utilize Google Earth and go to 28 13' .10 North and 129.17'.21 East you will get an idea of the magnitude of one of the Japanese projects
> I think Kinki Uni. and then compare
> 
> Not sure about your point here
> ...




Yes, I think Sashimi's information is very relevant Basilica as I believe the CSS facility is in the wrong location. I have always had concerns about it being located in a relatively cold climate for most of the year. It is interesting to note that this facility is located in a sub-tropical climate. I always thought it was much further North just South of Wakayama on the main Island ( Honshu ).
When you consider that SBT spawn in the tropical Java sea , I beleive , CSS should have built their facility in Darwin.
I believe they will have much more difficulty spawning and raising SBT fingerlings in this cold climate and this may be a contributing factor to the high mortality rate.
Hagen's admission that he may move to Mauritious ( tropical climate ) adds to my suspision that the Arno Bay facility is in the wrong location and may become a White Elephant.   

Note - As with all my posts , this is my opinion only. I do not hold CSS and probably never will again.


----------



## Sdajii (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, I think Sashimi's information is very relevant Basilica as I believe the CSS facility is in the wrong location. I have always had concerns about it being located in a relatively cold climate for most of the year. It is interesting to note that this facility is located in a sub-tropical climate. I always thought it was much further North just South of Wakayama on the main Island ( Honshu ).
> When you consider that SBT spawn in the tropical Java sea , I beleive , CSS should have built their facility in Darwin.
> I believe they will have much more difficulty spawning and raising SBT fingerlings in this cold climate and this may be a contributing factor to the high mortality rate.
> Hagen's admission that he may move to Mauritious ( tropical climate ) adds to my suspision that the Arno Bay facility is in the wrong location and may become a White Elephant.
> ...




I discussed this with Frank Knight last year (in a much more civil manner than I am likely to discuss anything with him again if I happen to talk to him at all). The reason for the cooler location was that in warmer water there was believed to be a greater disease risk (though perhaps we lost the lot this year thanks to disease anyway, although we don't know yet), and fish quality. In cooler water the product is firmer and with better flavour. Tropical waters tend to be more prone to nasty weather too; a cyclone could easily destroy the entire offshore facility and all the live stock.

Any increase in risk would hardly seem to make this venture more appealing. Apparently the cooler climate was chosen because fish raised in warmer water are of poorer quality, in warmer areas there is a greater disease risk (although this might be a problem too difficult to deal with even in the cold), and in tropical areas there tends to be a greater risk of inclement weather (a cyclone or nasty tropical storm could easily destroy your offshore infrastructure and entire offshore live stock).

If they moved to a warmer area I'd hardly be inspired by the greater level of risk, and even if there was a nice story which seemed convincing I wouldn't ever trust these frauds.

Speaking of fraud, has there been any official response to the "100% mortality isn't of material significance and no, we had no idea that the other fish were dying off and growing slowly" lies?


----------



## Basilica (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Speaking of fraud, has there been any official response to the "100% mortality isn't of material significance and no, we had no idea that the other fish were dying off and growing slowly" lies?




I dont expect any further response from ASIC. They have no idea about any of the technical issues and may well of been bluffed. + Any exta faxes will put a big dent in their budget. 

OK Oracal i just thought i would as the opinion of others, most of what he said was relevent.


----------



## Sdajii (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I dont expect any further response from ASIC. They have no idea about any of the technical issues and may well of been bluffed. + Any exta faxes will put a big dent in their budget.
> 
> OK Oracal i just thought i would as the opinion of others, most of what he said was relevent.




Well, if nothing happens in response to such blatant lies, ASIC is literally useless and without function. It seems there is no obstacle to insider trading and nothing to keep operators honest.

Did I just say that? Sorry, next post I'll try to include something someone didn't already know


----------



## sashimi (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In cooler water the product is firmer and with better flavour. Tropical waters tend to be more prone to nasty weather too; a cyclone could easily destroy the entire offshore facility and all the live stock.

There is some merit to this however to use it justify a $100milion investment of someone else's money in the wrong place is in my opinion is nonsense and fraudulent at the least

In My opinion the way I see this is,  the public money has been used wasted nothing more nothing less.  

The question is what knowledge did we gain from all this.

Its the wrong location to even begin this.

When it comes to ASIC they would have no idea if they are being lied to or not.

That's the beauty of something like this.  There is no-one to stand up and tell it how it is.

Where does ASIC go to find someone they can believe

$ 100 million or there about's and what did any one get for it.

Clean Seas Tuna have got to be laughing at everyone

stupid people they gave me $100 million to play with .

No repercussions nothing 

This is not the first time the Australian public has been conned by the fishing industry.

The only right location is Timor the centre of the spawning grounds
no cyclones, good calm weather a dream come true.  

note this is my opinion only . 
Wether its qualified or not is up to others to judge


----------



## tge oracle (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sadjii/Sashimi and other CSS Investors,

I can understand your anger and frustration at being profoundly mislead.
Irrespective of ASX/ASIC investigation, I am certain CSS is finished and if you are no longer invested then they can't disappoint you anymore.
In the many years I have been investing it is not often that I am 100% sure about an investment but I am about this. I am a value investor and have never shorted a stock in my life but I wish I could with CSS as I would definately invest in shorting this stock. Is any body aware if this is possible for CSS, I have never used a broker throughout the 20+ years I have been investing ( very satisfied with my own rate of returns ).

Note- My own opinion only , not based on any specific factual information ( just my gut - which I trust the most ). Please DYOR and don't regard this as financial / investing advice or recommendation.


----------



## Sdajii (5 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Sadjii/Sashimi and other CSS Investors,
> 
> I can understand your anger and frustration at being profoundly mislead.
> Irrespective of ASX/ASIC investigation, I am certain CSS is finished and if you are no longer invested then they can't disappoint you anymore.
> ...




Good point, this one has only one way to go from here unless they can get half their book value in liquidation (which I'm guessing is unlikely). The book value is only going to go down as the cash continues to burn, so in liquidation they are going to be worth less and less over time. I can't understand why anyone would be holding now when the option of selling out at around 11-12c. The bottom line is that they are going to run out of cash before they have a hope of raising funds to continue operations, and it's difficult to imagine anyone wanting to get involved with these people after they have shown their very ugly true colours.

Few things seem more certain than CSS having a lower share price in the near future than it has now.


----------



## tge oracle (6 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS Investors,

Pls read report for The Austrlian today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s-as-shares-dive/story-e6frg8zx-1225837508565


As I predicted, Cap raising on the way and very soon IMO.
Still think the company will struggle and investors will be just throwing more money into the abyss. The more you participate the more you will lose......don't be fooled by the hollow promises....commercial propogation on the scale predicted by CSS is many years, possibly, decades away.
Furthermore, they intend to sell the YTK, a big mistake, they will need the revenue from YTK to support the SBT prject for the next 5-10years otherwise it will be Cap Raisings every 6-12mths to keep things going.


Note - My own opinion only , pls DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (6 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Another article from today's Australian. It would appear that the regulators do have CSS in their sights, rightly so too. CSS have made the undignified list of campanies that are accused of ignoring disclosure rules. I hope the regulators conduct a full investigation of CSS since it's inception in 2005/6. The most recent announcement is just the latest of many questionable disclosures over the past 5 years, in my view.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...lian-regulations/story-e6frg8zx-1225837519620


Note - My opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## Qjumpa (6 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> CSS Investors,
> 
> Pls read report for The Austrlian today.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the link Oracle.
You’re right!
Actually looking back though your posts before the SP crash you were so very right...and I take my hat off to you and your “gut feelings”.
I really don’t understand why CSS are going this way about it. Selling the one thing that’s bringing in income seems insane, even for the saviour of one big capital injection. The selling of the YTK operation after the big talk up on the half yearly report stating they will rebuild it from the ground up so it can be profitable long term operation again, shows that desperate times calls for desperate measures and that invested money with them now is better off on the roulette table at the casino.
CSS days are numbered. And although I do think it’s sad because people will lose jobs and i do really feel for those people, the sadness is overcome by anger due to a whopping 50% loss from investing in this fairy tale scam. 
I feel a little sorry for people still holding out hope for Clean Seas Tuna. Good luck to you I say. I shall continue to watch them and read peoples comments on ASF.:run:
 IMO...


----------



## sashimi (10 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi 
This is a link to a recent article on CNN about northern Bluefin tuna Kinki Uni and Japan.

You will find that there are two video links also attached to this web page.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/01/20/eco.bluefin.tuna/index.html


----------



## Basilica (10 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It looks like Asic found the funds to send another fax to ask a please explain your explination.  New announcement just released explaining their explanation. Took them 5 days to respond Asic fax was 5-3 After a brief read their explination was that it does not consider the mortalities to be material.  It is such a brain dead response. If the "Spawning Update" is marked price sensitive surly the "All Dead" update would be price sensitive. They had less than the target 25000 on the 18-2 on the 16-2 they had 150,000.


----------



## tge oracle (10 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> It looks like Asic found the funds to send another fax to ask a please explain your explination.  New announcement just released explaining their explanation. Took them 5 days to respond Asic fax was 5-3 After a brief read their explination was that it does not consider the mortalities to be material.  It is such a brain dead response. If the "Spawning Update" is marked price sensitive surly the "All Dead" update would be price sensitive. They had less than the target 25000 on the 18-2 on the 16-2 they had 150,000.




Yes Basilica, carefully contrived spin in my view. I have a number of observations to make on this reply: 

1. Despite projecting 25000 fingerings as pre-commercial they are now saying a number significantly less than this would be pre-commercial. Absolute nonsense , their ability to propogate in sufficent numbers is material to commercial production. If they are now saying a couple of hundred fish or even a couple of thousand is pre-commercial means they have an astronomical mortality rate and have no hope of ever being anything more than just a scientific laboratory for SBT propogation, much the same as Kinki was for 20 years.

2. They make mention of producing more fingerlings than 2009, however, we still don't know how many they produced in 2009. I could only count approx. a couple of dozen fingerlings in the youtube footage they posted last year. So I guess this years production was maybe 50-100 fingerlings?.

3. They say they had approx. 150000 fingerlings and larvae just prior to interim report date. The important word here is LARVAE. There is a big difference between larvae that last for a few days and fingerlings that have survived the larvae stage. This is very misleading in my view.....the ASX should push them to provide actual fingerling numbers. I suspect this is extremely low and most of this number was larvae.

4. They keep hiding behind the IP excuse, absolute BS. Bluefin Tuna propogation is now widely being conducted throughout the world in Asia and Europe by many of the scientists that assited CSS. I see this as nothing more than a convenient excuse to keep the market ill-informed.

5. I wish ASX would also question them about irregular trading in their securities over the past few years, particularly prior to a material announcement being made.

6. This industry is not well understood by the ASX, ASIC or many institutional/retail investors. It is easy to hoodwink those who have little knowledge of this industry or technology.
Having said that, I do believe there are some well informed and knowledgeable contributors to this forum.

Note - As always, my personal observations and opinions only. Pls conduct your own research and don't construe my comments as investing advice or recommendations.


----------



## sashimi (11 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am torn between whether I should try to contribute to this business by opening up a discussion of what in my view is where the industry is going wrong.

For me it all seems quiet simple.

We all know that Clean Seas Tuna watch and read this forum and someone reports back and we all know that critisizm is easy but positive contribution is not so readily forth coming.

The point is::
Is there anyone else who would be interested to participate in this discussion


----------



## sashimi (11 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have now read today's Australian article about Clean Seas Tuna and as a result I retract my previous offer to discuss this further.

I understand that the, what I call at the very least an ambiguous statement, 
that all the fingerlings died, 
their continuous defense of this statement and the fact that in today's Australian the statement that in April they expect to have fish in an ocean sea cage has left me wondering.

Technically I believe and again it is my own personal opinion, 
that to go from zero fish a couple of weeks ago to young tuna swimming in a sea cage in April is almost technically impossible at this point in time.

Again and it's my opinion, 
that it's entirely possible that they have set about manipulating the stock market price to allow another major player or two, to buy in at rock bottom prices knowing that they are going to make this move in April. 

Keeping in mind they do not need many fish to complete this task and get away with.

If I recall correctly, nearly 25% of the company shares changed hands at the time, a significant investment that must have been prepared,  
and at a time when many people are calling this company a failure.

It's clear that someone does not agree with this, to the tuna of 25% of the company. 

Now again this my opinion, but it's a reasonable statement to make,
that many people do not consider that true and full disclosure has been made in the past in respect to their activities.

As I believe that at this point, 
it's technically impossible for them to go from nowhere today, to somewhere tomorrow makes today's statement in the Australian either, 
untrue, false or at the very best mis-leading or they know something no-one else knows.

Its seems to me, that they cannot have it both ways.

So either way you want to look at it, 
something is very fishy about this whole project 
and the way i see it today, only time will tell.

Do your own research make your own conclusions as this is opinion only.


----------



## WiseMum (11 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

All my reading, and understanding of CSS (albeit significantly less learned than many contributors on this site) has not turned off the alarm bells.
I really want to believe, but the truth just doesn't seem to be out there.
The only thing I feel sure of is that unless you're on the inside, it's a casino bet at best.  There are so many other opportunities out there that can be understood, with real facts and timely disclosure that I just can't justify any investment in this company.  It really does seem little more than a spin on the chocolate wheel.


----------



## sashimi (15 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am now getting to the point where I think I understand the process.

1) 15-20 adult mature adult tuna are required as brood stock,  if possible half female and the other half male.
2) GnrHa hormone is administered by spear intramuscularly on or nearby the top of the shoulder.
3) within two days spawning takes place, eggs and sperm float to the surface.
4) fertilization takes place.
5) After which the eggs begin to sink.
6) During the 10 days it takes for the embryo to form into a baby tuna it sinks to the depth of between 200 and 300 meters where it hatches.
7) as their is little else to feed on it develops cannibalistic features in order to survive.
8) It then begins its journey back towards the surface
9) Refuge for the babies is created by darkness and then schooling behavior. 

The cycle has begun.


----------



## Bolle (15 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

wow i was eating when i read that... just lost my appetite.

no seriously, i hold this stock so i'm interested, just unsure of the point you're making?

are you still discussing timeframe?


----------



## Sdajii (15 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> I am now getting to the point where I think I understand the process.
> 
> 1) 15-20 adult mature adult tuna are required as brood stock,  if possible half female and the other half male.
> 2) GnrHa hormone is administered by spear intramuscularly on or nearby the top of the shoulder.
> ...




10) The larvae are fed rotifers
11) The larvae grow large enough to eat fish eggs and YTK larvae
12) The larvae grow to fingerling stage
13) The fingerlings drop dead

14) Repeat for several consecutive years until funding expires, broodstock dies or the lynch mob finally gets you

14) (alternate) After failing to get to stage 12 once, then getting to stage 13 twice, lie to ASX convincingly enough to buy enough time to run off with remaining money.


----------



## tge oracle (16 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Does anybody know how many fingerlings were produced last year and what happened to the juvenile fish? The last information we had was the picture of someone holding a fish of about 1-2kg towards the end of last year , around Sept-Oct, but there has been no information from CSS what so ever on last years spawning, other than it happened.....I guess!

Basilica / Truevalue any ideas or info on this ?


----------



## Sdajii (16 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Does anybody know how many fingerlings were produced last year and what happened to the juvenile fish? The last information we had was the picture of someone holding a fish of about 1-2kg towards the end of last year , around Sept-Oct, but there has been no information from CSS what so ever on last years spawning, other than it happened.....I guess!
> 
> Basilica / Truevalue any ideas or info on this ?




They got about a dozen past fingerling. If my memory serves me, around November last year they were down to about three or four.


----------



## Basilica (16 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> I am now getting to the point where I think I understand the process.
> 
> 1) 15-20 adult mature adult tuna are required as brood stock,  if possible half female and the other half male.
> 2) GnrHa hormone is administered by spear intramuscularly on or nearby the top of the shoulder.
> ...




The cycle usually begins with conditioning that is like courting where the eggs develope in the female before the hormone. The ratio is often 2 x females to 1 x male.


----------



## Basilica (16 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Does anybody know how many fingerlings were produced last year and what happened to the juvenile fish? The last information we had was the picture of someone holding a fish of about 1-2kg towards the end of last year , around Sept-Oct, but there has been no information from CSS what so ever on last years spawning, other than it happened.....I guess!
> 
> Basilica / Truevalue any ideas or info on this ?




Ultimatly they all died or their would have been an anouncement if the news was good.
I never saw the photo of the 1 -2 kg fish but heard about it here. I very much doubt it was raised by CSS it may have been media fluff and part of the wild catch for growout. If it was raised at CSS there would be no out of water photo shoots. And the world would have to guess if it was raised or captured. Do you have a link to the photo Oracle?  

CSS bought the growout from Hagen for $X and now it is likley to be sold we may find out if a fair price was paid. How much will they sell it for?
$X / 2
$X /10
$X
?


----------



## tge oracle (16 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Ultimatly they all died or their would have been an anouncement if the news was good.
> I never saw the photo of the 1 -2 kg fish but heard about it here. I very much doubt it was raised by CSS it may have been media fluff and part of the wild catch for growout. If it was raised at CSS there would be no out of water photo shoots. And the world would have to guess if it was raised or captured. Do you have a link to the photo Oracle?
> 
> CSS bought the growout from Hagen for $X and now it is likley to be sold we may find out if a fair price was paid. How much will they sell it for?
> ...





Basilica,

The picture is on page 13 of the September 2009 Investor Update. The ASX announcement release date for this presentation is 22/09/09.

I assumed that this was one of the juvenile SBT they produced, but in hindsight, I think this is just another misleading representation as there was no reference to this fish being one of their aquaculture bred fish. As you suggest, it is probably a wild caught fish......a very misleading photograph for investors in my view.


----------



## Basilica (16 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basilica,
> 
> The picture is on page 13 of the September 2009 Investor Update. The ASX announcement release date for this presentation is 22/09/09.
> 
> I assumed that this was one of the juvenile SBT they produced, but in hindsight, I think this is just another misleading representation as there was no reference to this fish being one of their aquaculture bred fish. As you suggest, it is probably a wild caught fish......a very misleading photograph for investors in my view.




Yes it is misleading Oracle, 
The image name is "500g sbt.jpg" (when you hover the mouse over it)
So probobly younger than 1-2 years. The use of a surgical glove adds to the implication that it is bred by CSS. It is on the page "Kingfish" so has no business being there anway. I have never heard what their max age for SBT has been but if they top the 100 days that Panama has achieved they will tell the world so i assume less than that.


----------



## tge oracle (17 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Yes it is misleading Oracle,
> The image name is "500g sbt.jpg" (when you hover the mouse over it)
> So probobly younger than 1-2 years. The use of a surgical glove adds to the implication that it is bred by CSS. It is on the page "Kingfish" so has no business being there anway. I have never heard what their max age for SBT has been but if they top the 100 days that Panama has achieved they will tell the world so i assume less than that.




Yes, they will do anything to mislead investors. I think this photograph is probably from the Kinki University propogation of NBT and may well be a marine biologist holding an aquaculture bred NBT, but not CSS's.


----------



## truevalue (17 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have been a little shy about posting on this forum in recent weeks simply because it appears to have degenerated into a Cleanseas hate club.

I have been devastated by the events that have rocked the stock over the last 18 months-2 years. 3 years ago this was my biggest portfolio position and now, sadly, it is my smallest. I have not only had to wear the financial losses associated with the share price decline but I have had to cop a lot of flack from friends and family who have also suffered financially and blame me for their losses, rightly or wrongly. 

Having said that, I blame no-one but myself for my losses, I am not angry about disclosure, or lack thereof, at the end of the day the best disclosure in the world would have still seen CSS in the position it is in today. I don’t see management as crooks or even dishonest, I see them as people who have taken on an extraordinarily difficult task and are doing their best to succeed. Clearly I underestimated the risks of the CSS business and for that I have paid. I underestimated the challenges of closing the lifecycle of SBT. I underestimated the market for Kingfish, thinking CSS would easily sell all they could produce. I underestimated the challenge of getting feed conversion ratios right. I underestimated the effect of the strong $A. I underestimated the bank’s risk of withdrawing funding. I underestimated investor impatience and the long time delays associated with the R&D.

I have no doubt that greed blinded me to these risks, but I was also blinded by the passion I felt for the business and the importance of its success and, for that, I loved being part of it. I have quoted a poem below by Teddy Roosevelt which I think epitomises Hagen Stehr.

 "It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

I don’t know if CSS is going to make it. I doubt it can remain a public company and achieve its aims of producing 10,000t of SBT. If it does close the lifecycle of the SBT then I believe there is enormous value in its IP and that will be recognised in some manner. In that case I believe CSS will be privatised by a third party who will also fund its growth.

If it goes broke or if it is bought out, either way I will feel like a guys who has lost his true love.


----------



## Basilica (17 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, they will do anything to mislead investors. I think this photograph is probably from the Kinki University propogation of NBT and may well be a marine biologist holding an aquaculture bred NBT, but not CSS's.




I do not think it is a NBT from Kinki as the photo is labled SBT.
It would make sense for CSS to keep a sample all sizes of fish from their SBT wild catch to learn from their experiences of this size fish. 

Truevalue, I agree that it was not the act of crooks, however Hagen did allow for all outcomes when setting up CSS with the huge related party transactions (now larger value than current CSS market cap i think) and i doubt he will be the big looser in any outcome. I am still unclear what his initial investment was in CSS and if his position is cash flow positive or negitive.

PS. I am not as negitive on the possible outcomes as some of the recent commentors, If the growout is sold the hatchery is not that expensive to run and may still achieve success in the long term. So long as they dont borrow money.


----------



## sashimi (17 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The more I learn about breeding tuna the more amazed I am at how everyone goes about it.

1) You would think that people engaged in this business would try to re-create the natural circumstances that tuna experience in wild. 

2) Prevention of Cannibalism .

Why on earth does everyone try to eliminate this from the equation. Its nonsense its part of their life cycle. It's what keeps them going. Its the same for all pelagic fish.
At this point in time it should be encouraged not defeated.

3) Light  
Switch the bloody lights off. Trying to recreate what goes on on the surface is also nonsense.  At 200-300metres there is no light to speak of just some far off glow something that represents hope for the babies light at the end of the tunnel that's where i should go.

4) Prevention of the eggs from sinking.  
Tuna have a negative buoyancy that's a fact. 
All the effort is to keep them from sinking more nonsense.
It does not compute

You should provide the opportunity for them to sink.
I am sorry we can't do that.  Its impossible because then we have to admit we are wrong and low and behold that's the last thing we can do.

I apologize if I have to be brutally honest with everyone but i cannot see any sense in what's happening.

This is my opinion only and I'm nothing but a street walker but it seems to me I've always had more sense of this anyone else.  I am not a scientist nothing more than a dumb assed fisherman who can,t get a job. 
Because there in no fish left in Australia. 

I am sorry we cannot adapt to suit the tuna in the wild.  we have to adapt the life cycle to suit us in the laboratory but don't worry there will be another bucket of money tomorrow after we are scientists.

If Clean Seas have problems it's because they listening to wrong people who are giving them the wrong information for the wrong reason.

Around the world it's a big secret race.  No-one is really sharing anything that's not already known Everyone is competing against each other to be biggest hero.

If you want success here open up your minds think outside the square.
and again get out of the laboratory and get to sea.

Until then I very sincerely doubt that any one has a chance of getting this industry to a point where it is commercially via-able.


----------



## tge oracle (17 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Truevalue/Basilica/Sashimi and other investors,

Firstly, I don't think this has turned into a hate forum Truevalue but investors are undoubtedly disappointed, angry and searching for answers. I guess we will have to agree to disagree over the disclosure issue but I don't necessarily blame Hagen or Management for this. Lazard, Lonsec ,Patersons and others have a lot to answer for in advising CSS on the corporate protocols of being a publicly listed entity.

I , like yourself, was a true believer in CSS and , I too, invested a substantial sum in CSS on two separate occaisions. As I advised , in earlier posts, I sold out as I could " read between the line's " on much of their reporting. Call it good luck, intuition or whatever but the reason I felt this way was that I wasn't convinced that I was being told the full story, just edited highlights.
I hope you are able to regain your profits in CSS or through another investment.....we have all been there at sometime in our investing careers, if nothing else it makes us wiser investors.

It disappoints me that CSS didn't , at least, turn the YTK business into a profitible business. SBT was always going to be a long and painful road. 

Perhaps Sashimi was right , let's try to see where CSS can go from here.
I think de-listing and going private is probably their only hope , but this is frought with danger as private companies don't have the same regulatory and financial reporting protocols and investors may well be left even more in the dark. They would need to find a foundation investor with deep pockets for this to suceed in anycase.


----------



## nizora (19 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Does anybody know how many fingerlings were produced last year and what happened to the juvenile fish? The last information we had was the picture of someone holding a fish of about 1-2kg towards the end of last year , around Sept-Oct, but there has been no information from CSS what so ever on last years spawning, other than it happened.....I guess!




I have heard that they were all dead. 
I wish the company would do the right thing ,  keep their shareholders informed! Not to let them guess in the dark.


----------



## Sdajii (19 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> I have heard that they were all dead.
> I wish the company would do the right thing ,  keep their shareholders informed! Not to let them guess in the dark.




I think their attitude is along the lines of: Better to leave investors in the dark, guessing things are bleak than to turn on the light and confirm their suspicions.


----------



## rowdy15 (19 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Guys,

I just bought in a small holding at 0.13c.

I have read all the recent comments on this forum and also some older ones.

I am a scientist. I do scientific research for my day job.

Let me tell you one thing, that almost invariably happens all the time in research.

Firstly, 99.99% of the time, a successful experiment will take more than one attempt (one attempt however is what is anticipated by the scientist, or more likely the scientist's boss) before you can have confidence in the data.

Secondly, 99.99% of the time, a project is composed of many experiments.  

Therefore:
If working out how to close the reproductive cycle of SBT is composed of 10 experiments and each experiment takes 3 attempts to be succesful, then this means 30 experiments might need to be conducted in reality for the completion of the project.

This is despite the scientist's boss expecting the project to be completed in 10 experiments. 

I tell you all this because I believe the shareprice has bottomed out. According to my calculations, the truevalue of CSS at the moment is approximately about 26 cents per share. 108 million (total equity) divided by shares on offer.

As long as the scientist gains information on why the fingerlings died then the project will move forward.

The only problem is if the project can be completed before the money runs out.

If the project can be completed before the money runs out, then the shares will be worth quite a lot due to intellectual property gained.

If the company actually demonstrates they can go commercial and do a deal with Japan. the share price will go well above $2 bucks. Possibly up to $10.00.

Of course this is my own opinion and I have a fresh outlook on CSS as I have only stumbled upon it in the last week or two.

DYOR

Rowdy15


----------



## sashimi (20 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

To quote ....Rowdy15 .........yesterday

Of course this is my own opinion and I have a fresh outlook on CSS as I have only stumbled upon it in the last week or two.

Strange comment, given that you joined this web site on June 30th 2009.


----------



## sashimi (21 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

1)  Intellectual Property Right 

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=WO2006078061&DISPLAY=DESC

2)  Tuna larvae development

http://www.fishlarvae.com/e/BigBang/Kawamura.pdf


Interesting  I must say any thoughts on this info. 




I do not endorse or take responsibilty for this info
Do your own research


----------



## rowdy15 (21 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hey Sashimi,

Membership join up date, has no connection to investigating a stock.

So I'd say yours is the strange comment.


----------



## Sdajii (22 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Rowdy15: I also have science qualifications (degree with honours in biological science) and have worked in biology laboratories carrying out research. What you say is quite true, science experiments tend to take more attempts than is initially anticipated before they are successful. However, working in a research lab at a government-funded institution is hardly a model for a successful business. Look at the cash burn of CSS and think about what will happen if they don't close the life cycle in the next season (which seems an almost guarantee given their track record, and even you say that more failures are almost certain). They are going to run out of money before the next, so they are going to need money from somewhere before making another attempt (which is what you are expecting). That 26c or so book value is going to be substantially lower than 26c when the time comes for a capital raising, and considering what their assets are, trying to liquidate now probably wouldn't bring in anywhere at all near 26c, let alone when the cash runs out before next spawning season.

Given the level of confidence the investors have, and given that the banks have already run away, and that many/most of the current holders are probably doing so simply hoping for a good deal when they liquidate, further capital raising seems extremely unlikely. Liars are often believed, but they have already alienated and disillusioned enough investors, and the new ones won't have to look hard to be discouraged from participating in further capital raising, so it's very difficult to see it being successful.

Given that even if a magical solution was found for the mortality issue, the food conversion rates are very difficult to deal with, and how profitable the venture might be in the very unlikely event that the science side of things was successful is very uncertain. Feeding many kg of wild caught fish to the tuna for every kg of tuna produced, along with the costs of running a business is a very precarious situation to be in. How you can pluck figures like $2-$10 out of the air at this point is beyond me, especially given that any currently held shares are going to be severely diluted if CSS actually does continue as a going concern. Aren't we supposed to give some sort of reasoning if we make bold price predictions?

Finally, it seems extremely suspicious that someone would jump in with fervent support of a company on their very first post after being a member for several months.


----------



## nizora (22 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

"In a change of tune, management has shied away from committing to any
timeframe and/or SBT fingerling production target by stating “It is not possible to predict the rate of progress that will be achieved with the commercialisation by the company of the closure of the SBT lifecycle.” This indicates that the company’s previously stated target of producing 100,000 fingerlings in FY11 and 10,000t p.a of SBT by FY15, is very unlikely - at least not in the stated timeframe and/or in the stated quantity."

Read the above, but the share price has been going north lately.


----------



## rowdy15 (22 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hey Sdajii,

You make some good arguments, but I'd say the 23 million of "cash or cash equivalents" on hand as of dec 30 2009, if spent on fish food...........is a lot of fish food.

I would be assuming the company is conducting their blue fin tuna experiments on a much smaller scale compared with when they go commercial. So please enlighten me with some "real" figures if you have some.

The announcement of dead fish is quite dissapointing, however if the cost of the failed experiment is say 0.5 milliion dollars, which is a lot of money for just a single "feeler" experiment, then there should be enough money for a further 45 experiments.

Please, I am just taking a calculated stab in the dark, so give me some real figures, if you want to set me straight.

In summary, I still think the company has got a while before they run out of cash.

I'd be guessing here, but I also think the export of kingfish and mulloway will also pick up, assuming this year is post-GFC.

Finally, fervent is a strong word......I simply stated my opinion, and I made it very clear that I had only analysed the stock for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Nothing suspicious about that.

I did join this site in June 2009 but haven't posted on here at all because I usually go the hot copper website.  I have just started looking on this forum and also on the topstock.com.au forum in the last month or so.  That probably explains my "suspicious" behaviour.

I can see there's been a few people who have been stung by the results of the last few months.  Hopefully they realise that this stock has still got potential, and that right now could be last time when investor confidence is down, and thus the last time to get in before the stock goes back up to a more anticipatory price.

Just my opinion DYOR

rowdy15


----------



## McCoy Pauley (22 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like somebody believes this company has a viable future.  Share price has been steadily rising since the company released its report.


----------



## Sdajii (23 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

rowdy15: If there was any suspicion in me about you having only just stumbled across CSS your last post has removed any last traces of it.

If you want estimates of how quickly they're (you're?) going to burn the cash on hand, look at the company's own reports and see. It's not going to last long enough to go through another 45 experiments, and given that each experiment takes a year, I hardly think it is a good idea to be investing now with a view to seeing the methods finally sorted out in 2055 with a view to going commercial some time after that!

Let's just have a reality check while we're at it and think about how likely it is that CSS can operate on 500k per year. That might be a fair bit of fish food, but since you seem oblivious to the fact I'll point out that CSS has overheads additional to food such as, oh, maintaining massive onshore and offshore cages, running massive filtration systems, wages, rates... honestly, your words are as far-fetched as what comes directly from CSS...coincidence?


----------



## sashimi (23 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

As far as I can see at the moment,  Clean Seas have to decide
1)	Whether to utilize the Kinki University intellectual property right  
2)	Or to develop another method that does impinge on the existing right.
3)	If and when successful the next issue may well be acclimatization of the young tuna to local water temperature.

4)	 Feed. 
 I would suggest that Kinki Uni. are well down the road of developing a vegetarian diet for tuna as this is the next most important issue.

5)	 Pollution.  
Approx 5000t of wild tuna utilize approx 400-500 ….40metre cages in and around Port Lincoln.
25,000 tonnes of tuna growing out will utilize something like another 2000 cages.  The pollution in relation to this is enormous and could utilize more than 300,000 tonnes of feed per year at the present fattening rate of 10%-12% of body weight per day.

The government sooner or later must also consider legislation that requires aquaculture ventures to clean up their mess after each year.

Opinion only DYOR.


----------



## potchip (23 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Nothing has changed for CSS yet the share price has somehow rallied. Is this some form of manipulation and a capital raising is on the horizon?

The lesson learnt in the latest crash was simply a reality check for me, and I'm happy to have dumped all CSS shares even if at a price 80% below the current 'recovery'. The business is anything but certain, there are huge gaps that the management is not keeping the investors informed about, under the cover of 'intellectual property'. There's no guarantee that the share price will not crash again, and it will be sudden for the general public just like what happened multiple times previously.

What I failed to do as a rational investor previously was to ask the fundamental questions:
1. What can go wrong - which can be anything and everything given the track record.
2. What needs to go right for CSS to become viable, this includes all the technical obstacles of 1 being overcome plus accquire enough capital for the experiment to run its due course.

For the kind of venture this is, the focus IMO should no longer be on the ideal outcome. The bottomline for myself is simply, the risks is not for me and I'd rather wait until CSS hit $1.50+, with some of the questions answered before ever consider setting foot again.


----------



## Basilica (23 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



potchip said:


> Nothing has changed for CSS yet the share price has somehow rallied. Is this some form of manipulation and a capital raising is on the horizon?
> 
> The lesson learnt in the latest crash was simply a reality check for me, and I'm happy to have dumped all CSS shares even if at a price 80% below the current 'recovery'. The business is anything but certain, there are huge gaps that the management is not keeping the investors informed about, under the cover of 'intellectual property'. There's no guarantee that the share price will not crash again, and it will be sudden for the general public just like what happened multiple times previously.
> 
> ...




Hi Potchip,

The share price movement is very surprising but it is backed with big volume so i don't know about the manipulation theory. Could it be speculators?
what price did you sell at? I did not note it reaching 80% below todays price.
I like you would prefer the unknown is clearer before i invest.

Sdajii, I think the Board alone costs a million a year so i agree it is impossible for CSS to operate on 500K per year.


----------



## tge oracle (23 March 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Many of CSS' s wild fluctuations in value can be attributed to pre-knowledge by informed investors in my view. In many cases these moves have predicated the release of material information.
I wouldn't hazard to guess the reason for the present increase in value , quite honestly, it could be any number of reasons, some of which have been canvased in the last few posts, however, it does warrant an explanation from the ASX as nothing has changed since the interim report..........or.......has it?

This is just another example of why investors have lost faith in this company and why, despite this uptick, I am 100% sure they will not survive as a listed entity.

Note - As always, my opinion only, DYOR.


----------



## nizora (4 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Company news 31 march 2010

_"Fingerlings that are not transferred to sea cages in April or May will be transferred to large, on‐shore, temperature and light controlled, broodstock tanks in the new tuna hatchery. For added security of the company’s tuna breeding programme these facilities are designed to assist fingerling growout until the ocean temperatures return to a level that will support their at sea survival."_

There are some survival after all,  apparently not all dead???


----------



## Sdajii (4 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Company news 31 march 2010
> 
> _"Fingerlings that are not transferred to sea cages in April or May will be transferred to large, on‐shore, temperature and light controlled, broodstock tanks in the new tuna hatchery. For added security of the company’s tuna breeding programme these facilities are designed to assist fingerling growout until the ocean temperatures return to a level that will support their at sea survival."_
> 
> There are some survival after all,  apparently not all dead???




These will be from recent spawnings. Looks like they'll have another dozen or so to put in fish tanks and take pictures of this year, or knowing CSS, maybe they just said some more spawning happened and they'll release pictures of last year's handful and say they were taken this year  Ask them how many they have


----------



## pween (4 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS tuna was nothing more than a vehicle for Hagen STEHR to become famous using your money.  And he has achieved that so good on him.  But its not a money making thing, you can lease tuna for $6 a kilo.  How much do u think it is going to does cost to raise a tuna to 1kg.  More than 6 bucks I would suggest.  
So do your sums and work it out.


----------



## nizora (9 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

"Is Stehr’s dream in  tatters?  Probably  not. It has  hard to write   off  someone tenacious  enough  to jump ship in  1961 and then  build an empire  in a tough  industry. But Stehr will probably lose his position  on the Rich 200 this year and could be  some  time  before  Clean Seas becomes the  “Microsoft of of the  fisheries business” as he once predicted."

http://www.brw.com.au/Page/Uuid/2cbc3c82-4113-11df-b2c1-3dfe5fc42b61


----------



## Basilica (12 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pween said:


> CSS tuna was nothing more than a vehicle for Hagen STEHR to become famous using your money.  And he has achieved that so good on him.  But its not a money making thing, you can lease tuna for $6 a kilo.  How much do u think it is going to does cost to raise a tuna to 1kg.  More than 6 bucks I would suggest.
> So do your sums and work it out.




Hi pween, Tell us more about leasing tuna for 6$ kg, Is that some kind of share farming?



nizora said:


> "Is Stehr’s dream in  tatters?  Probably  not. It has  hard to write   off  someone tenacious  enough  to jump ship in  1961 and then  build an empire  in a tough  industry. But Stehr will probably lose his position  on the Rich 200 this year and could be  some  time  before  Clean Seas becomes the  “Microsoft of of the  fisheries business” as he once predicted."
> 
> http://www.brw.com.au/Page/Uuid/2cbc3c82-4113-11df-b2c1-3dfe5fc42b61




Great article nizora, thanks i like the photo.
Does anyone think Hagen was setup in the photo sitting by the pool in a "beached whale" pose.


----------



## bluewater (12 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> As far as I can see at the moment,  Clean Seas have to decide
> 1)	Whether to utilize the Kinki University intellectual property right
> 2)	Or to develop another method that does impinge on the existing right.
> 3)	If and when successful the next issue may well be acclimatization of the young tuna to local water temperature.
> ...




Sashimi, your posting confuses me a tad, you state;
5,000Mt will require 400-500 X 40mtr cages 
In fact 5,000 Metric tonnes @ 4Kg/M ³ at 20Kg / per fish will require ~ 71 cages, not the 400-500 as stated.  Also I have no idea where the 25,000 tonnes comes from?


----------



## Sdajii (13 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



bluewater said:


> Sashimi, your posting confuses me a tad, you state;
> 5,000Mt will require 400-500 X 40mtr cages
> In fact 5,000 Metric tonnes @ 4Kg/M ³ at 20Kg / per fish will require ~ 71 cages, not the 400-500 as stated.  Also I have no idea where the 25,000 tonnes comes from?




Amazing, another recently-joined ASF member pops straight into the CSS thread to defend CSS... I wonder who "bluewater" works for... 

Look at that for a first post. Could "bluewater" be any more blatant if he tried? Is anyone being fooled?

You're probably going to get a better response if you just do it openly, "bluewater".


----------



## Bigukraine (13 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Amazing, another recently-joined ASF member pops straight into the CSS thread to defend CSS... I wonder who "bluewater" works for...
> 
> Look at that for a first post. Could "bluewater" be any more blatant if he tried? Is anyone being fooled?
> 
> You're probably going to get a better response if you just do it openly, "bluewater".




In the local paper in sa today stated hagen got an honorary doctorate for his life work in developing world-significant sustainable fishing industries from the Sunshine coast uni................. and i hear bernie madoff is getting one for financial planning !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bluewater (14 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Amazing, another recently-joined ASF member pops straight into the CSS thread to defend CSS... I wonder who "bluewater" works for...
> 
> Look at that for a first post. Could "bluewater" be any more blatant if he tried? Is anyone being fooled?
> 
> You're probably going to get a better response if you just do it openly, "bluewater".




G'day Sdajii,
First off, thanks for the sledging, you certainly got my attention.
When I first opened this I thought – can’t this dude read -  then much to my embarrassment I found I had NOT sent my comments (posted below) as I thought I had. Please be gentle with me, this is the first time I have made a mistake in my 62 years! -  Thank god I was quick enough to delete my hasty response in reference to you washing your mouth out with soap for even suggesting I was “onside” or “a member of” this mob of bushwhackers. 

Updates - 
In regards to Sashimi, regardless of who is who or who works for who, my motto is honesty in all things.... It does none of us any good to believe in false info…. I am not sledging Sashimi either, just getting the facts right.

Sdajii – following are my missed comments I thought I had posted yesterday, sorry for the confusion but I trust that if you read it you may / may not forgive my first attempt to join an online forum.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
G’day all, (12 April 2010)
“OK”, that’s enough…..Juicy Lucy, just how much can a man take!
I may be a bit long winded in my initial contact with y’all but without “fish” there is no CSS, let alone returns to investors.
All my references to issues on day one with the release of the prospectus are still relevant today.

I have a passion for aquaculture - particularly the propagation with the possibility of re-seeding the wild.
As the global boffins are stating the world will be out of fish by 2040, (as a life long fisherman and after seeing the decline in so many fisheries first hand I agree with them) and the present controversy of the Northern Blue Fin tuna (NBT), and many other species I have naturally gravitated to CLEAN SEAS TUNA LIMITED (CSS) as an exercise in learning the ropes of “Investing” & try to sort the truth from the BS.

As I have waded through the “DYOR” phase I am mortified to find I know diddly squat on the facts of investing, compared to what I thought I knew!
Believe me, when stepping from “fishing” to “investing” I have just about worn out the web acronyms page. 

Silly me, I must be an absolute whacker because I thought a publicly listed company was required to be transparent and honest with its investors. 
I understand that; “ASX is obliged to monitor conduct in relation to the markets and facilities it operates, to supervise the market and ensure compliance with its rules, and to refer to ASIC any suspected breaches of the law.”
Therefore; if any breaches are noticed, ASX is to then notify ASIC
It seems I totally misunderstood the obligations/authority of ASX/ASIC as stated above, because when I follow (for example) the CSS path I find ASX/ASIC appear to be in hiding and/or in denial. I just do not understand when ASX asked when all the fish died if the matter was “material” and CSS just gave the blunt answer ”NO”…..sssooo!?!?!?!?!? What does ASX/ASIC do with this type of fob off? Just lie down and cringe!?!?!

Starting at the beginning with the “Clean Seas Tuna Limited Prospectus October 2005”…….there is the letter from the chairman which states in part “believe that over the next three years this should lead to the establishment of an exciting and long term commercially viable SBT business”….. 
The importance here is the wording - ”the next three years” & “commercially viable SBT business”…..which starts the bells ringing – probably more to the point would be “for whom the bell tolls” I read this on the day it was released and knew is was a bit of a furphy, knowing the history of Kinki Uni (Japan) and the history Achotines Laboratory in ref to the YFT...... yet here was a local bloke boasting he would get it up and have a “commercially viable SBT business” within 3 years!.go figure!?!?!?!?! 


So the commercially viable SBT business” should have been viable in 2008…......we all know that water temperature is critical to tuna, so why try to grow tuna from an egg in waters unsuited to the fish, the prospectus clearly states the natural breeding (spawning) grounds for SBT are the warm tropical waters and the only known spawning grounds for SBT are located in the Indian Ocean, between the north west coast of Australia and Indonesia.

Today (1500hrs - 12 April 2010) the Sea Surface Temperature is falling at a steady rate, as it does in any normal year, with today’s temperature being 21.7 ºC in the area of Arno Bay …….. 
“(Page 32 CSS Prospectus) 5.10 Production Of SBT Fingerlings _ Observation of spawning SBT in their natural habitat in the Indian Ocean off Western Australia indicates a need for an ambient spawning temperature in excess of 25C. However, the average maximum summer water temperature is less than 25c at Arno Bay”
I understand the difference between “spawning” and “fingerlings” and I also know what happens when (particularly) fingerlings are subject to temperature differences, in this case the fingerlings will in all probability go into thermal shock and croak it. 

So, CSS already knew the temperature required for the survival of tuna fingerlings is in excess of 25 ºC yet have the impudence to produce the latest (CLEAN SEAS TUNA LIMITED announcements 31/03/2010  -  Tuna spawning update March 2010) that states the “company remains confidant it will be able to put fingerlings into sea cages before the ocean temperatures become too cold”!?!?!?!!?
Who’s plucking this duck!  
If you click on West Point (Tip of Eyre Peninsular) the temperature is 16.6 ºC……trust me, this water (temperature) goes north during winter….making a beeline for Arno Bay.

So, CSS has not yet kept a fish alive to date…… will need to spawn more tuna…….grow the tuna to a size that make it possible to transfer to the open water cages (CSS prospectus states “By day 50, SBT fingerlings of approximately 7-10 grams should be ready for transfer to sea cages for growout”) so that’s 50 days from the announcement on 31/03/2010 which takes the transfer to ~ 20th May 2010, whereby I just know the water is going to be a great deal colder than the minimum of the 25 ºC needed for the fingerlings to survive.

One would think CSS would have competent helmsmen at the wheel and be intelligent enough to make the very serious decisions required to safe guard, not only the big, but also the mum & dad investors. So who is driving this particular rubber ducky?
Why try to mislead the investors by stating they (CSS) remain confidant they would be able to put fingerlings into sea cages at this time of the year. Still, in all fairness CSS did not say the fingerlings would survive the transfer; just that CSS would put the fingerlings in a cage!….. well that takes care of the fish.

Sponsorship. Or better known as “creative accounting”.  Hard to call this one an investment opportunity.  
I obviously have a very poor Excel program (probably has a fishy virus) because no matter what I do I just cannot make it show a profit with values supplied by CSS. And why on earth in the beginning would CSS pay a fixed price for a product to the grower when it leaves CSS at the mercy of the fish market, which is / has / and always will be fickle.

Can any one tell me that as an investor in any listed company am I allowed access to the company books to check on where/how/who/why my investment is spent. I do not mean the bulk end of year report – the “creative accounting”.  I am referring to the real hard cash figures, AKA “the truth”
And is there any avenue that reveals the identity of those making decisions on behalf of CSS.

Can anyone tell me if there has ever been a dividend payed back to investors?

CSS has/had thousands of metric tonnes of Mulloway and King Fish………..so why is this company going broke?

Where can I go to find the exact $/ ¢ paid to CSS by government.

Who, in Govt, is responsible to keep check of the money on behalf of the taxpayers ………fact is we (taxpayers) are the donors / sponsors for this mob.

There is nothing worse that when a venture of this type fails, because which bank and what investors are going to support future projects when bungling dodgy brothers make these ventures seem so risky.
The Port Lincoln Times and ABC radio have both given the news that CSS has closed down one of it’s processing establishments with the loss of ~23 jobs………….if this is not “material” type information I would like to know what the definition of material s because there is no announcement on the ASX www page for this CSS event.

I really am getting the feeling ASX/ASIC should perhaps upgrade their rules and use Breaker Morants’ “Rule 303”.

Anyway, I hope to have comms with any/all of you re this investing bit.

 All opinions are mine. DYOR


----------



## bluewater (14 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi pween, Tell us more about leasing tuna for 6$ kg, Is that some kind of share farming?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




G'day Basilica,
I think you will find the $6/Kg pween is refering to is the lease price paid to the commercial fisherman.
"web page - aus food news, "the Commission for the Conservation of Southern Bluefin Tuna agreed to a net 20% cut in worldwide wild catch quota for SBT over 2010 and 2011. Australia’s share of the worldwide quota will be reduced from 5,265 tonnes to 4,015 tonnes (a decrease of 23.4%)."

So the total quota overseen by AFMA is now 4,015MT any part of this can be leased by the bigger players in the industry from the smaller quota holders that do not have enough tonnage to warrent farming, or who do not wish to farm their quota.
The usual going rate is $6-8/Kg -----then the fisherman leasing the quota goes fishing and catches & farms the SBT.


----------



## Sdajii (14 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi bluewater, thanks for your post. It certainly does change the context of your first post, and of course, if it had gone through earlier as you had expected, I wouldn't have posted what I did, so, of course, I'll take it back.

Good post (would have been much better as a first post, as you intended  ), I share your dismay with ASX/ASIC. The CSS board has given the most blatant example of breaching the rules one could imagine, and yet nothing has been done. If CSS has achieved nothing else, they have exposed the full extent of how useless ASIC is and how little protection we have as investors. I feel ashamed of how little I looked into the finer details of CSS before putting my money on the line, but I have trouble understanding how anyone could make that mistake now. Could it be any more clear that CSS is going nowhere but down in the medium term, and almost certainly dead in the medium to long term? There was some excuse for getting involved before, but after recent events you deserve to lose your money (as you will) if you buy in now.

I think you're also right about this sort of idiocy keeping investors away from other aquaculture or agricultural investments. It hurts the whole industry.


----------



## sashimi (14 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Bluewater.

I have recently read your approach to this business and as a result gone back over the issue of stocking density and you are right and i am wrong. I apoligise for this error. there is no excuse for me making this mistake.  I will try not to let it happen again.

I, like you have seen the Australian fishing industry wiped out in 30 years pretty good accomplishment you might say and something Australia should be proud of  .....ha!  ha!  

I entered this debate in the hope that I would be able to stimulate knowledgeable people like yourself to openly discuss the issues and to assist in giving people wishing to invest in this industry some kind of knowledge base for the decision making process which would in turn, help the development of this new industry.

I for one have learned a great deal, however i can only speak for myself.

Clean Seas biggest problem is they propagate the belief that they will own the future of this industry which is of course nonsense and always was nonsense.
 If they had the courage to speak the truth and open up the conversation to the whole world things might turn out for the better. 

Don't be surprised if you see Clean Seas move some of their operation to Port Stevens in the near future.  Port Stephen boasts water temperature from 16 to 25 degrees and there is one site for-sale in area. 
In my opinion it is still only a borderline location but it might get them through the gate.

I have searched the whole world looking for suitable site for breeding tuna and there are not many.  The Kinki Uni. site is almost perfect and the Med. Sea has merit also but there are almost no places within Australian Territorial waters that stack up.

I know that it is easy to critisize people like Hagen and I agree with the sentiment of speaking the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but in principle, it doesn't work.

I know the Australian fishing backwards and as far as I can tell, no-one got where they are, by being honest.
For me personally after spending a lifetime in the industry starting with my first boat at six years getting to the point when I should be at the top my career its not even possible to get a job as a ********.

Another of the issues is politics, how does a politician make a decision in relation to the fishing industry.  
Bull**** baffels brains every time.

Scientists, nearly all the scientists in Australia are employed by Government so they are never going to speak out, They will be out of a job so fast they won't know what happened.

So in the end, 
greed and ego have played their role, 
many people are much more knowledgeable on the issue of breeding tuna than in the past. 
Clean Seas have burn't a couple of hundred million of someone else's money,

and in the end who cares

My opinion only  Do your own research


----------



## tge oracle (19 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The flight shutdowns accross Europe will be starting to have a an impact on CSS as much of their YTK business relies on European customers which will further erode revenue / earnings from YTK.


Note - I don't hold CSS and the above is my opinion only, DYOR.


----------



## squidlyadams (20 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

found out a nice piece of info. The fish all died as someone was spraying pesticides around the tank and this led to a contamination and inevitably the death of the fingerlings. Will this change peoples opinions considering the amount of progress they did make in the previous attempt. Financially they are in a pickle, so I think they have one attempt left and we will wake up and CSS will not longer be trading on the asx


----------



## malachii (20 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> found out a nice piece of info. The fish all died as someone was spraying pesticides around the tank and this led to a contamination and inevitably the death of the fingerlings.




Surely if this was the case then they would have released this too the market.  It sure would come across better than hiding it as that just appears to be either incompetance or their process doesn't work.  Both cases worse in my opinion than an "accidental poisoning".

malachii

PS I hold NO shares or financial interest in CSS or any affiliates.


----------



## Sdajii (20 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

How reliable is that information? Presumably only CSS would know that, and why would it take until now for them to speak up, and why wouldn't they have been keen to get the word out? Sure, they have no fear of the "authorities" and will lie or illegally withhold information as they desire, but presumably they would want this to be known. Doesn't sound right to me.

*Disclosure - I do not hold and am a disgruntled investor who got burned by CSS and their evil ways!


----------



## bluewater (20 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



malachii said:


> Surely if this was the case then they would have released this too the market.  It sure would come across better than hiding it as that just appears to be either incompetance or their process doesn't work.  Both cases worse in my opinion than an "accidental poisoning".
> 
> malachii
> 
> PS I hold NO shares or financial interest in CSS or any affiliates.




G'day malachii......maybe they were spraying insecticides for cockroaches, well there goes half the board.....pls excuse my ignorance, but I have noticed there has been no trading on CSS today……..is there a  reason for this?


----------



## squidlyadams (21 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> How reliable is that information? Presumably only CSS would know that, and why would it take until now for them to speak up, and why wouldn't they have been keen to get the word out? Sure, they have no fear of the "authorities" and will lie or illegally withhold information as they desire, but presumably they would want this to be known. Doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> *Disclosure - I do not hold and am a disgruntled investor who got burned by CSS and their evil ways!




Hagen himself said that it was "due to human error" and I will not disclose how I came about this information but it was internally.  The specifics of how the fish died do not need to be released to shareholders, but Hagen did say it was human error and the information I later obtained from a clipsal 500 function also was beneficial.

I do hold shares in CSS but DYOR


----------



## GumbyLearner (21 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> Hagen himself said that it was "due to human error" and I will not disclose how I came about this information but it was internally.  The specifics of how the fish died do not need to be released to shareholders, but Hagen did say it was human error and the information I later obtained from a clipsal 500 function also was beneficial.
> 
> I do hold shares in CSS but DYOR




I don't DYOR..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


----------



## malachii (21 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> Hagen himself said that it was "due to human error" and I will not disclose how I came about this information but it was internally.  The specifics of how the fish died do not need to be released to shareholders, but Hagen did say it was human error and the information I later obtained from a clipsal 500 function also was beneficial.




I'm sorry but you cant be serious - whispered conversations at a racetrack?????  Information gathered on the quiet internally that you are sharing on a chat site????  Give me a break!!

How can anyone actually take anything like this seriously when it comes from an anonymous person making vague claims that can't be substantiated? 

*IF* this information was true then yes - how the fish died absolutely needs to be released to the shareholders (especially if they are holding "secret briefings" to a select few and releasing information that is not out in the market).  When I am an owner of a business, I want to know the ins and outs of all major problems.  Whether this was caused by accidental poisoning or anything else, the major points must be released to the owners.  The employees (I'm assuming you are one if you are finding out things internally otherwise I would suggest you forward your claims to the local police and ASIC for investigation) need to remember that they are FULLY answerable to the owners of the business (ie shareholders).

If I was a shareholder (which I am not and haven't been for several years) then I have to say that I would be pretty peeved that one of my employees was releasing "secret" company information that managment for some reason didn't want released - onto a publically available chat forum.  If the company was not willing to investigate and prosecute then I would have to consider my options (hyperthetically of course!).


malachii


----------



## bluewater (21 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> Hagen himself said that it was "due to human error" and I will not disclose how I came about this information but it was internally.  The specifics of how the fish died do not need to be released to shareholders, but Hagen did say it was human error and the information I later obtained from a clipsal 500 function also was beneficial.
> 
> I do hold shares in CSS but DYOR




G’day squidlyadams,
I do not hold shares and/or any interest in any ventures, but I am interested in investing in the future of aquaculture that shows promise in propagation and / or reseeding the wild.

I am on a very steep learning curve and have chosen CSS as an example venture to gain knowledge of the workings of the stock exchange / investing before I throw money in the ring.

So far all I am seeing is the blatant condescension shown by CSS towards its’ investors and the apparent toothless snarling by ASX/ASIC towards the cover-ups’ demonstrated by CSS to date. 

Your post only reinforces my uneasiness to be engaged in any investing whatsoever, when the regulators (ASX/ASIC) are so conspicuous by their absence.

1.	To get to your posting whereby you state that “Hagen himself said that it was "due to human error" (I assume you are referring to all the dead fish) leaves me somewhat baffled!
Where was the management of the day……..if the numbers are crunched each fingerling is worth probably $million each (paid for by the investors) but CSS management appears to deem it unnecessary to have “fail safe” protocols in place to ensure not one of the fingerlings is ever sprayed with insecticide!?!?!?!?
A.	If this is in fact how the fish were killed at least the “cause of death” can be fixed….. This would indicate to me (if I were an investor) that there is still hope for the project.
B.	But if the cause of death is a complete failure of the whole exercise of establishing a “commercially viable SBT business” then this would leave me, as a potential investor with no choice…. I would not put a cent into CSS.


2.	Your next statement of “The specifics of how the fish died do not need to be released to shareholders,” ……baffled is not the word I would use here….absolute amazement would be more like it!
A.	Contrary to your thoughts, I, as a potential investor do need to know what’s happening to allow me to make a decision on whether to throw money at something that works, or not.
B.	The statement also appears to be showing the worthless worth of ASX/ASIC. I had assumed all investors were to have the same information (transparency) to any / all goings on (dodgy or otherwise) to ensure fair trading to all parties. Yet you (a share holder - for one, how many others) have this “cause of death” information yet there is no notification on the ASX www page “CLEAN SEAS TUNA LIMITED announcements” Is there a special understanding between the “insiders” and the “outsiders” that I am missing
C.	So if there are entities within CSS that have inside information at least those entities would have the information to make a decision on whether to buy/sell subject to knowing if the fish were killed via accident or via failure of the propagation exercise. Where is ASX/ASIC in all this?  

There are four matters I am researching via the DYOR phase.
1.	Fishing – This involves catching fish with a scoop net, hook, pursein net, propagation ……..regardless of the method, fish have to be in the system to have a business. (cost of fishing)
2.	Farming – This involves the husbandary of live fish from the commencement of farming through to the harvesting. (cost of production)
3.	Marketing – This involves the processing through to the end user, not just the market. (cost of marketing)
4.	Then it’s just a small matter of “knowing” the abilities of the chiefs making all decisions in relation to the fish – for example, if an entity has a history of baking cup cakes and then makes decisions on fish health then a minus factor of ~99.999999% is added to the Excel - then adding the 3 production costs and subtracting the market value (the real cash in hand back to CSS) and – well I’ll be, there is zilch left? 

In all areas I find many missing links with CSS that just do not add up, but I will keep looking to satisfy myself on what the factual reality is. 

My opinions only DYOR


----------



## nizora (22 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> found out a nice piece of info. The fish all died as someone was spraying pesticides around the tank and this led to a contamination and inevitably the death of the fingerlings. Will this change peoples opinions considering the amount of progress they did make in the previous attempt. Financially they are in a pickle, so I think they have one attempt left and we will wake up and CSS will not longer be trading on the asx




News just came out:

22 April 2010
Company Announcements

ASX RELEASE – SOUTHERN BLUEFIN TUNA (SBT) LIFECYCLE CLOSURE UPDATE
Clean Seas Tuna Ltd advises that it has completed the 2009/10 summer SBT broodstock spawning trials. The SBT broodstock will now be wintered and conditioned for the 2010/11 summer production run.
The company successfully advanced the spawning of its SBT to January which was two months earlier than in the past with broodstock spawning for a three month period which was twice as long as in the previous year. The company is pleased that controlled spawning events have now been achieved for the third successive year at their Arno Bay SBT broodstock facility.
SBT larval rearing trials are continuing. SBT larvae and fingerlings (currently up to day 40) are being successfully trialled at the DPI hatchery facility at Port Stephens in NSW. Larval rearing trials at the company’s purpose designed SBT facility at Arno Bay are expected to conclude in the near future with larvae of up to 38 days being produced to date. Fertilised eggs were also transferred to the South Australian Government’s SARDI facility at West Beach and the Northern Territories DPI facility at Darwin. At all facilities good hatch rates were achieved and the Darwin hatchery raised larvae through to day eight in their first season.


----------



## sashimi (22 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

WELL DONE,
THIS IS THE REAL McKOY CONTRATULATIONS WELL DONE KEEP IT UP

Congratulation well done 
.......................................................


----------



## Basilica (22 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



squidlyadams said:


> found out a nice piece of info. The fish all died as someone was spraying pesticides around the tank and this led to a contamination and inevitably the death of the fingerlings. Will this change peoples opinions considering the amount of progress they did make in the previous attempt. Financially they are in a pickle, so I think they have one attempt left and we will wake up and CSS will not longer be trading on the asx




Hi Squidlyadams, I find it hard to believe that what you heard at the races is true. Air borne pesticides designed to kill insects may not have the concentration to kill fish when diluted by many trillion times with the tank water. (I have killed yabbies like that but they are much closer related to insects than fish)

Hi Bluewater, thanks for clearing up the leased fish question for me.

Hi Sashimi, I am totally unsure who you are congradulating and why. Can you expand on your praise.


----------



## sashimi (23 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Basicalla.

For the first time it's the truth.
Its stabilizing

Now we would like to know where CSS is going from here  and how is it going to get there?

I mentioned ego and greed in a recent post and I neglected to mention Ambition.

As many of us know, there is a huge ambition driving this business.

If they keep this up, develop it,................. I think they have got chance

DYOR


----------



## Basilica (23 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



sashimi said:


> Hi Basicalla.
> 
> For the first time it's the truth.
> Its stabilizing
> ...




Now i understand your response, I even read the announcement again lokking for the hidden good news but there was none.


----------



## tge oracle (30 April 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

For those of you still invested the 4C doesn't look pretty. Rapidly declining revenue from YTK sales and escalating expediture ( Staff costs / Working Capital ).
They have, prematurely, decided to reduce YTK production 1.25 to 1.0Mill in anticipation of successful SBT propogation. This failed to materialize so now they are now left with reduced YTK revenue and fingers crossed for next years SBT trials.....only problem is.... they will run out of funds by Q3.
In anycase the AUD must be impacting them significantly as they rely heavily on European sales for YTK so next quater could be much worse.

The Annual Report, July/Aug will be ugly for investors and another Cap Raising will be their only hope.


Note - Opinion only. Not invested.........just watching the inevitible!


----------



## Bigukraine (1 May 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The moons are turning red, i see a bad one riseing, i see trouble on the way, look's like we are in for heavy weather , the crystal ball is telling me bankruptcy by november (sorry it rhymed) really by feb 2011 but what would i know i was a former share holder, hey that rhyme's good luck to all holders dyor


----------



## squidlyadams (12 May 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna pg 50 thurs Advertiser*

Page 50 Thurs Advertiser. Nice article to boost investors confidence. I over read Kingfish sales in quarterly report as too busy pre-occupied with Tuna. It suggests Kingfish sales are going very well indeed.


----------



## tge oracle (24 May 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The forum has, quite understandably, become very quiet. 

I have only revisited it myself as a result of a very intersting article on tonights ABC TV news. Basically, and I might not quite have the specifics completely accurate, but Japanese scientists are pioneering the impregnating of Mackeral with BFT stem cells/DNA. This alows the mackeral to become surrogate broodstock for BFT eggs. So basically the Mackeral concieves, incubates and lays the BFT egg as a broodstock BFT would. The resultant larvae grows as it would as if layed by the broodstock BFT.
The scientists are expecting Mackeral bred BFT within 2 years , according to the report.
This has enormous ramifications for CSS and others who are labouring , at immense expense, to support BFT broodstock in large tanks and with the resultant high feed costs and husbandry expenses.
If this new technology proves successful, CSS and others are finished. 
Think about it, you can achieve the same spawning success from a humble and readily available mackeral of 2-3kg as you can from a 100-200kg broodstock tuna. 
Did anybody else see this report?


----------



## Sdajii (25 May 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> The forum has, quite understandably, become very quiet.
> 
> I have only revisited it myself as a result of a very intersting article on tonights ABC TV news. Basically, and I might not quite have the specifics completely accurate, but Japanese scientists are pioneering the impregnating of Mackeral with BFT stem cells/DNA. This alows the mackeral to become surrogate broodstock for BFT eggs. So basically the Mackeral concieves, incubates and lays the BFT egg as a broodstock BFT would. The resultant larvae grows as it would as if layed by the broodstock BFT.
> The scientists are expecting Mackeral bred BFT within 2 years , according to the report.
> ...




Sounds like very interesting technology which will dramatically change aquaculture. As for the implications for CSS, it is a possible nail in the coffin, but that coffin is now all but buried anyway, and won't be above ground for long enough to receive this nail if/when the nail is complete. I am astounded that CSS is still trading at more than about 5-6c. If I still held I'd be selling out if I could get more than about 4-5c, and I'd consider selling out for anything above 3c. It's literally dead in the water.


----------



## nizora (31 May 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna pg 50 thurs Advertiser*



squidlyadams said:


> Page 50 Thurs Advertiser. Nice article to boost investors confidence. I over read Kingfish sales in quarterly report as too busy pre-occupied with Tuna. It suggests Kingfish sales are going very well indeed.





PRESS RELEASE – SEAFOOD CRC INNOVATION AWARD
The Australian Seafood CRC was yesterday awarded the prize for “Excellence in Innovation” at the Cooperative Research Centre Association Conference held in Alice Springs. The Seafood CRC, one of Australia’s 48 Cooperative Research Centres, won the prize in recognition of the outstanding commercial application of its research.
The prize acknowledges a series of research breakthroughs which have enabled the breeding and rearing of the prized Southern Bluefin Tuna in land-based hatcheries.
This award recognises the huge, collaborative scientific effort that stands behind the commercial development of bluefin tuna aquaculture by the South Australian company Clean Seas Tuna Ltd.
Dr Graham Mair, Program Manager at the Seafood CRC said “This project epitomises the CRC mantra of End-User Driven Research Partnerships. Over the past three years scientists from more than 15 institutes around the world and across Australia have worked together to deliver this outcome for the seafood industry”.
Through the vision of its founder, Dr Hagan Stehr (AO) Clean Seas Tuna has learned how to effectively engage with teams of scientists to undertake discovery research and to take this on to commercial delivery, in partnership with the Seafood CRC.
According to Dr Mair, as a result of this prize winning collaboration “consumers will soon be able to buy fresh bluefin tuna in the knowledge that the supply is sustainable through the combination of aquaculture and ocean fishing.”
This research based in South Australia and recognized


----------



## sashimi (9 June 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Be prepared for a government bailout

The stage is set.

Port Stephens Southern Bluefin Tuna breakthrough
AUSTRALIA - The future of the critically endangered species Southern Bluefin Tuna is looking brighter with the Port Stephens Fisheries Institute announcing it successfully reared the iconic species to juvenile stage.

Minister for Primary Industries, Steve Whan said: “There’s no doubt this is a magnificent breakthrough and it’s great it has been made here in NSW.

“Industry & Investment NSW researchers at Port Stephens are proud to be part of a collaborative research program with the company Clean Seas Tuna and other partners in the Australian Seafood Cooperative Research Centre.

“Last night the Seafood CRC tuna breeding program was a winner in the Cooperative Research Centres of Australia awards 2010 in the category of ‘Innovation arising from the application and use of research’.

“This follows international recognition with Time Magazine listing “tank bred tuna” as the second-best invention in 2009 which indicates the global significance of the achievement.

“While only small numbers of fish were produced, this success and other achievements from Clean Seas Tuna and collaborators, has confirmed hatchery production of Southern Bluefin Tuna is possible.

“It also confirms the potential for increased aquaculture production and raises the prospect for future stock enhancement of this highly valued species.

“The next critical milestone is achieving reliable, large-scale production of juveniles.”

I&I NSW Aquaculture Research Leader, Dr Geoff Allan said the national progress with Southern Bluefin Tuna has been outstanding with maturation of broodstock, controlled spawning, larval rearing and juvenile production successfully achieved.

“This success is a triumph for Clean Seas Tuna and founding Director Mr Hagen Stehr. They have turned their vision to breed Southern Bluefin Tuna into a reality,” Dr Allan said.

“The I&I NSW team, led by Research Scientist, Dr Stewart Fielder, has been successful in rearing juveniles because of innovative thinking, strict adherence to defined protocols for live food production and tank hygiene and extremely hard work.

“The research demonstrates what can be achieved by genuine collaboration and I&I NSW is proud to remain involved in solving key remaining challenges to large-scale hatchery production of Southern Bluefin Tuna.

“Hatchery production and aquaculture is the only way to meet increasing demand for tuna and seafood in general.”

The state-of-the-art marine fish hatchery at Port Stephens is one of four hatcheries involved with the program with Clean Seas Tuna hatchery at Arno Bay, the South Australian Research & Development Institute hatchery and the Northern Territory Department of Regional Development, Primary Industries, and Fisheries and Resources hatchery. Other contributors to this exciting program are the Fisheries Research & Development Corporation, the University of the Sunshine Coast, Flinders University, and the University of Tasmania.

DYOR


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## sashimi (16 June 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Bluefin tuna farm gets green light 


By Chris Dove, SeafoodSource contributing editor, reporting from Malaga, Spain 
14 June, 2010 - CÃ¡diz, Spain-based Futuna Blue EspaÃ±a has been given the green light to begin constructing the world’s largest bluefin tuna farm on the River Guadalete at the end of the month. 
Established in 2007, the company aims to develop the species’ reproduction from the early stages of larval growth with an investment of approximately EUR 11 million (USD 13.5 million).
As Europe’s first center for the captive breeding of Atlantic bluefin tuna (Thunnus thynnus), located in the port of CÃ¡diz, the 30,000-square-meter plant plans to breed 500,000 tuna per year.
El Puerto Mayor Enrique Moresco just recently granted permission for the farm following a protracted planning process.
“Unfortunately for El Puerto, the Special Ports Plans were buried in a drawer until mayor Moresco gave them a new impetus,” said Patricia Ybarra, the port’s urban councilor. “Now we only need to complete the environmental procedures to give final municipal approval, and then we can count on a complete tool for the development of this type of facility.”
Miguel Llere, Futuna Blue EspaÃ±a’s sales and marketing director, on Monday confirmed that after completing the administrative phase, the company plan to begin clearing land this week. Construction will last for one year.
Last week, Futuna Blue shareholders highlighted the possibility of finding another location due to the long planning permission process, warning that if work did not begin immediately the company would miss its May 2011 production target.
All Aquaculture stories > 


Do your own research


----------



## sashimi (30 June 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Obtaining Bluefin Eggs Without Hormonal Induction
SPAIN - Scientists at the Spanish Institute of Oceanography (IEO) have obtained viable bluefin tuna eggs at its facilities in Murcia,without hormonal induction. This is something that had never previously happened far from their natural spawning area and this demonstrates the advanced domestication level of the individuals used in this project.

Since June 18th, at the facilities of the Oceanographic Centre of Murcia of the Spanish Institute of Oceanography (IEO), viable bluefin tuna eggs are being spawned daily within the framework of the SELFDOTT project (From capture based to SELF-sustained aquaculture and Domestication Of bluefin tuna, Thunnus Thynnus), coordinated by Dr Fernando de la GÃ¡ndara.

This is the second consecutive year that the IEO has been able to obtain viable bluefin tuna eggs. Unlike the first occasion, this time it has not been necessary to induce the spawning with hormonal implants it has occurred spontaneously, something that has never previously happened in aquaculture facilities far from the Blue Fin Tuna ´s natural spawning areas and this therefore shows that the breeding tunas have reached an important degree of domestication as a result of their stay at the experimental farm for more than three years.

The eggs which exceeded ten million viable ones in a single day, are being collected in two experimental nursery facilities that SELFDOTT project has in El Gorguel (Cartagena), managed by the Caladeros del MediterrÃ¡neo Company, a project participant.

The eggs will be processed in a facility of the IEO in Murcia. One part will be sent to various project partners ´ laboratories: IFREMER Palavas in France, the Hellenic Centre for Marine Research (HCMR) on the island of Crete (Greece) and the National Center for Mariculture (NCM) in Eilat (Israel) and the rest will be used to start experiments on larval rearing, that SELFDOTT foresee in the Technical Annex, and which will be carried out at the Murcia Oceanographic Centre of the IEO under the supervision of Aurelio Ortega.

During the last larval rearing season IEO researchers completed several experiments to increase our understanding on the conditions of temperature, photoperiod, hydrodynamics and food most suitable to achieve higher survival and growth indexes. The last surviving tuna juvenile was 73 days old, reaching a height of 14 cm and weighing 30 g. After this experience, the scientists expect to improve on the success achieved last season.

The production of viable bluefin tuna eggs from captive individuals is the first step in the independent production of this species, without expending the endangered natural stocks, so that aquaculture can supply the market in the future in a sustainable manner.

DYOR


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## sashimi (14 July 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

12 July, 2010 - Japan’s Kinki University Fisheries Culture and Nursery Center ”” the first to successfully breed Pacific bluefin tuna in 2002 ”” is now harvesting the tuna and exporting some of it to the United States. 

The tuna are born in the university’s labs, not taken from the oceans as with other tuna aquaculture operations. Low density stocking allows the fish to be raised without antibiotics.

The university branded the finished product “Kindai Maguro” and formed a marketing company called A-marine Kindai Co. Ltd. Main outlets are Japanese department stores, though some of it is exported. The meat has the fattiness of toro (belly meat) throughout the body.

The university’s full-cycle breeding program is in Wakayama Prefecture, with ocean pens in both Wakayama and Kagoshima Prefectures. In addition to its own production, Kinki supplies fry, known as yokowa, about two and a half months after hatching to Burimi Corp.

Burimi picks up the fry by boat from the university’s Wakayama breeding facility and releases them into their own net pens in Amakusa City, Kumamoto Prefecture. The company stocked 200 to 300 fry as a test in December 2007, then ramped it up to 3,000 in 2008 and 5,000 last year.

Burimi test marketed the product in the United States in November 2009, including sampling in Boston, New York and Los Angeles. The company ran a promotional campaign from January to March, including bloggers, to play up the sustainability of their product.

Reviews have been positive on taste, but mixed regarding sustainability. Though the product does not deplete wild fish stocks, some environmental activists worry that consumers will be confused by a sustainable bluefin tuna after so much effort has been spent on educating the public not to eat it. They also note that tuna is still a carnivorous fish, with a large volume of feed fish consumed to produce a small amount of tuna.

Supply is still well short of demand, and Burimi exports only 10 to 15 fish per week, with an equal number going to the domestic market, said President Tadaomi Hama.

Kinki University is also providing technical cooperation to Australia’s Clean Seas Tuna Ltd., a commercial operation in Port Lincoln, Australia, to produce southern bluefin tuna.

Interest is growing among Japanese tuna farms that currently depend on wild caught fry. Tokyo-based seafood company Kyokuyo is constructing two round net enclosures 50 meters across in Ainan City, Ehime Prefecture, where it will stock wild-caught yokawa. With an existing facility in Sukumo City, Kochi Prefecture, Kyokuyo expects to produce 500 to 600 metric tons of fish annually. The company aims to produce 1,000 metric tons per year by 2015 by adding two more locations.

Kyokuyo President Kiyokazu Fukui said in a recent Suisan Times interview, “We need to consider a way to obtain artificially-incubated yokowa through complete-cycle aquaculture in the future, not just limiting ourselves to wild yokow.”

DYOR


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## nizora (30 July 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

JUNE QUARTER 2010 

CASH FLOW COMMENTARY 

Net operating cash outflow was $1.9 million in the June quarter 2010 compared to an outflow of $10.1 million for the June quarter 2009. Outflows for the June 2010 quarter include the costs of the southern bluefin tuna (SBT) pellet feed trials which amounted to 0.4 million (total to June 2010 $1.3 million net) and it is anticipated that these costs will be recouped from SBT sales in 1Q 2011. 

Management continues to be focussed on making operational changes to the Kingfish growout business in order to turn it into a positive cash flow business for the group.

The company has now achieved a balance between production and sales of kingfish. Targeted marketing strategies will lead to improved farmgate returns, which coupled with cost reductions, will give rise to further improvements in operating cash flows over the next twelve months.

Additional information about financial and operating performance will be provided in the 2010 full year results due in August 2010.


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## nizora (10 August 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CLEAN SEAS TUNA LIMITED (CSS): MARKET RELEASE
INVESTOR UPDATE 10/8/2010
................................
Overall, the Company believes it is now on track for the Yellowtail Kingfish division to become cash flow positive for FY2011 and then moving to profitability in the near term. Whilst this progress is slower than originally anticipated, the Company is now operating with a focused and higher level of rigour and discipline which will result in steady progress in this division.
4.
Other Matters
The Company recently lodged (30 July 2010) its Appendix 4C cash flow report for the three months ended 30 June 2010. In addition to information contained in that report, the Company confirms that its forecasts and current operations indicate that it has sufficient cash reserves for all planned operations in Page 3
FY2011. Further, the Company confirms it is presently debt free and is trading on a maximum of 30 day credit terms with all suppliers.
Whilst FY2010 has been a difficult and disappointing year from a financial perspective, the Company believes that it is well placed to significantly advance its progress with the commercialisation of SBT aquaculture and the establishment of Yellowtail Kingfish as a viable long term premium species. In the absence of unforeseeable environmental impacts, the Company anticipates a major reduction in operating losses for FY2011 as it advances towards profitable operations.


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## Sdajii (10 August 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Cool; after a history of lying and making ridiculously unrealistic predictions which time and again fall through, they are telling investors that although they are currently losing money they hope to be cashflow positive in the future.

Gee, let me get my buy order in right away.


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## sashimi (4 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

FROM SPAIN AND MALTA FARMING BLUEFIN TUNA 26.08.2010

LINK:http://www.euronews.net/2010/07/23/farming-bluefin-tuna/


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## nizora (7 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - What a lot of dead fish ???*

Market Update – Kingfish Bathing Mortalities 

The Company advises that up to 80 tonnes of Kingfish from four cages died due to human error following a bathing round which was carried out on Thursday 2 September 2010. Fish are bathed in the normal course of marine operations. An investigation and a review of bathing policies and procedures is in progress.

After monitoring over the weekend and Monday there have been no further abnormal mortalities from these cages. 

The Company considers this event to be a one off loss which will have a financial impact of
up to $0.7 million pre tax on the current half year’s results to 31 December 2010. 

Whilst these abnormally high mortalities will impact future cash flow, the Company remains of the view that it has adequate cash reserves to meet all anticipated financial commitments for FY2011.


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## Sdajii (7 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

80 tonnes of fish die (80 tonnes of fish!) on a Thursday, and they get around to letting the market know the following Tuesday! I suppose it probably took them four or five days to prepare that document, which was the length of two or three average SMS texts (nizora has the entire thing quoted).

You'd think with 80 tonnes of fish on the line you'd want to carefully manage your potential for 'human error' (I'd like to know what the error was). What will CSS surprise us with next?


----------



## Bigukraine (7 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> 80 tonnes of fish die (80 tonnes of fish!) on a Thursday, and they get around to letting the market know the following Tuesday! I suppose it probably took them four or five days to prepare that document, which was the length of two or three average SMS texts (nizora has the entire thing quoted).
> 
> You'd think with 80 tonnes of fish on the line you'd want to carefully manage your potential for 'human error' (I'd like to know what the error was). What will CSS surprise us with next?




all i know is that quite a large school of kingfish appeared near my place of residance here on the EP (won,t say exactly where for obvious reasons) and i took great delight in catching a few for the dinner table.....this happened 2 weekends ago......instead of dying maybe escaped....got to love this mob just when you get 1 step forward... you know the rest


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## trainspotter (7 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Not sure if this is right? Claiming only 8 tonnes of fish mortality to effect only $700,000 cashflow. No biggy IMO. But the numbers do not add up? Unless kingfish is $87.50 per kilogram? WHich I doubt. So therefore if it was 80 tonne the per kg price would be $8.75 (which sounds about right) then it is a BIG DEAL to lose 80 tonnes in one mortality hit.

http://www.news.com.au/business/fish-mortality-kills-clean-seas-shares/story-e6frfm1i-1225915271820


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## moXJO (7 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - What a lot of dead fish ???*



nizora said:


> Market Update – Kingfish Bathing Mortalities
> 
> The Company advises that up to 80 tonnes of Kingfish from four cages died due to human error following a bathing round which was carried out on Thursday 2 September 2010. Fish are bathed in the normal course of marine operations. An investigation and a review of bathing policies and procedures is in progress.
> 
> ...




How dodgy does that sound. Any way of checking to see if the fish really did die and they are not just selling em off the back of a truck.


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## trainspotter (7 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sumfin really not right here ?? 80 million kingfish dead here?

80,000,000 fish divided by 80,000 kilograms = 1000kg per fish ?? Not possible.

CSS claim 80 tonnes = 80,000 kgs for $700,000 loss ($8.75 per kg possible)
News article 1 claims 8 tonnes = 8000 kgs for $700,000 loss ($87.50 per kg unlikely)
News article 2 claims 80,000,000 fish divided by $700,000 loss = .00875 cent per fish??

I am really confused now. Has the media got it wrong? What is the REAL mortality rate and what is the REAL loss projected?

http://www.thebull.com.au/articles/a/14112-flukey-bath-bungle-kills-80m-kingfish.html


----------



## brendoz (8 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

news articles are probably not the most credible source of info. obviously got their numbers jumbled. 
disappointing and frustrating are a couple of words that come to mind. investor or not, its one company i would love to see become successful in their goals. the fact that 80 tonnes of fish here lost due to human error is inexcusable- get it right!


----------



## Sdajii (9 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The newspapers have incorrect information, probably due to a typo somewhere along the way. The ASX announcement makes sense (although it's severely dodgy).

I had the same suspicion about them selling them off the back of a truck. We know that this company is not honest or ethical, so it wouldn't be out of character.


----------



## exgeo (11 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Toyota Tsusho to enter tuna farming business
Saturday 11th September, 05:08 AM JST

TOKYO ”” 
Toyota Tsusho Corp said Friday it will jointly start business with Kinki University to farm fully cultured juveniles of bluefin tuna to up to 30 centimeters in length from 6 centimeters to provide them to farmers.

Toyota Tsusho, the trading arm of Toyota Motor Corp, will use know-how of the university which succeeded in fully culturing juveniles of the tuna in 2002 for the first time in the world and supply the grown juveniles to tuna farmers. The company will raise juveniles provided by the university at a subsidiary in the city of Goto, Nagasaki Prefecture.


----------



## Bigukraine (13 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> The newspapers have incorrect information, probably due to a typo somewhere along the way. The ASX announcement makes sense (although it's severely dodgy).
> 
> I had the same suspicion about them selling them off the back of a truck. We know that this company is not honest or ethical, so it wouldn't be out of character.




And thats how a lot of "the good old boys" of fishing back in the day made their initial fortunes...... it went a bit like this:

1) have quota/lic for say 30 ton... catch 30t 

2)sell to waiting entity in  ocean for agreed discount.

3) see step 1

4)see step2

5)see step 1

6) now don't want to get to greedy this season better go back to port and sell this 30t and meet the quota/lic


----------



## sashimi (15 September 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Oh !!!!


If only everyone knew the truth.................................................................
but not likely to happen


----------



## James Douglas (5 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If you look at page number 56 of the financial report for the 12 months Ended 30 June 2010 it states "The CRC will make $11.1 million available for the first three years. In July 2010 the Company exercised the option to participate for further four years. The CRC agrrement will make a further $14.8 available for the next four years" 

Does anyone know how this works? Later down it says "The company will provide an in-kind contribution in the form of staff and infrastrusture for the research work. The agrreement expects this to be $5.475 million over the first three years and $7.3 million for the subsequent four years" So the company's R&D is being paid for by the government? 

The company also estimates that its biological assets at 6/30/10 are worth $24,400,731, and total liabilities are $10,995,000. Seems to me that the company should be able to last at least two more seasons. Even with cash of  only $5,803,000 at 6/30/10. 

Obviously the company has not been forthcoming/dishonest with their shareholders, but the predictions of its demise might be a little premature.


----------



## ben.lane (26 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I agree with James it's premeture to predict their demise.
Look at it this way how much tuna if eaten around the world a year?
If Futuna blue are predicting that they will be able to produce 500,000 tuna a year. You have kyokuyo president predicting that they will produce 1000 metric Tons of tuna a year by 2015. How much is consumed? Tin tuna, cat food, sushi Ect. I think theres alot of room in the market for clean seas. if it takes pressure of the wild stock as well it a bit of a win. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Sdajii (26 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



ben.lane said:


> I agree with James it's premeture to predict their demise.
> Look at it this way how much tuna if eaten around the world a year?
> If Futuna blue are predicting that they will be able to produce 500,000 tuna a year. You have kyokuyo president predicting that they will produce 1000 metric Tons of tuna a year by 2015. How much is consumed? Tin tuna, cat food, sushi Ect. I think theres alot of room in the market for clean seas. if it takes pressure of the wild stock as well it a bit of a win. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.




Tinned tuna, cat food, etc, is produced at a tiny fraction of the cost that CSS could ever dream of.


----------



## ben.lane (26 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Tinned tuna, cat food, etc, is produced at a tiny fraction of the cost that CSS could ever dream of.




So what your saying sdajii that nobody should bother. The examples I have given my be poor but there is a profitable market for CSS in tuna sales to Asia. The wild fish stock are stuffed from over fishing. japan are the biggest consumer of tuna. so what will happen to the price of tuna when there is no wild fish left?


----------



## Sdajii (26 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



ben.lane said:


> So what your saying sdajii that nobody should bother. The examples I have given my be poor but there is a profitable market for CSS in tuna sales to Asia. The wild fish stock are stuffed from over fishing. japan are the biggest consumer of tuna. so what will happen to the price of tuna when there is no wild fish left?




Hehe 

One of the things required to produce one kilogram of farmed tuna is many kilograms of wild fish. You take the cheap fish and feed it to the tuna. If there are no wild fish left I think the last of our concerns will be feeding meat to an animal to produce less meat than we started with.

The success of tuna fishing relies on a very strong demand for a premium product. If we truly face a global food crisis and lack of fish, then yes, nobody should bother farming tuna. Economically there just might be a chance for a tuna farm... maybe... but not if it is run by the likes of those running CSS. All they will do is make money at the expense of naive people attempting to make in investment. I am growing very doubtful that tuna farming has any real future, but I lost the doubt about CSS some time ago.


----------



## James Douglas (27 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I don't think the issue is whether or not there will be demand. The Japanese have already de facto said they are willing to kill every wild tuna for their voracious appettite. They are also willing to pay exhorbinant amounts of money to continue with this habit. The issue is will CSS have enough resources/cash in order for the complete process to turn profitable. If CSS doesn't, some other company will continue to work on the process until it is commercially feasible. My previous post was to point out that CSS should be abe to have at least one more season trying to raise a commercially viable product. If not the company needs additional capital in order to survive. Or another company may want to purchase their facitilites. I think the predictions of their demise are not quite as black and white as some of the other posts have suggested. That being said, management does have a credibility issue they need to deal with.


----------



## Sdajii (27 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That's absolutely true, the demand will be there, but it is only going to get more expensive to produce these things, and CSS hasn't even been able to do it, at any cost, let alone economically.

To say they have a credibility issue is a tremendous understatement. How anyone could want to invest in a project which is probably impossible, run by people who are clearly dishonest and will stab you in the back to make a dollar for themselves... it's beyond me.


----------



## James Douglas (28 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

With the current information that is available it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the project is currently uneconomical. But that also assumes that no progress will be made in food sources and processes that could lead to profitability. Once again, I think eventually Tuna farming will be a very profitable business, primarily because the consumer appears to not be price sensitive. Whether or not Clean Seas will be the one who comercializes this process is the question. Certainly they have had failures and don't have excess capital, so next season is critical. But to write them off before one more attempt might turn out to be ignorant.


----------



## Sdajii (28 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



James Douglas said:


> ...to write them off before one more attempt might turn out to be ignorant.




How many attempts do we wait through before we stop being ignorant?

The only way I can see it being economical is by getting them on to land-based feed, but even that isn't going to be the cheapest thing in the world. It is possibly impossible, or at best it will post new challenges and require a lot of problem solving which will take time. I don't need to remind you what CSS's track record with problem solving is like.

In best case scenario (extremely unlikely to put it lightly) they'll eventually get there, but only after several more years of sucking many millions of dollars out of naive investors along the way. If profits are ever made it will only be after several years of losses, so the time to invest in CSS is probably never, but at best is not for several years, other than perhaps quick in and out trading, but since CSS seem to like insider trading you'll be competing against them, making it a tricky game to play.


----------



## sashimi (31 October 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In order to starve of failure,..................
It seems to me that both Australian and European efforts have fallen in behind the intellectual property right owned by the Japanese Kinki University effort and broadened their effort to include northern bluefin tuna.

As most of you know,    The Kinki group already have tuna on the supermarket shelves.


----------



## kingkev (10 November 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

SP heading in the wrong direction again today..............are we about to get some unwanted announcements again or is this just "Situation normal" with this crowd?

Hopefully brooding stock should be giving us something to think about shortly and hopefully the news is not in the negative...............it;s about time some good news on this stock came around and send the sp in the right direction


----------



## WiseMum (10 November 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

i haven't checked back here since around May.  i figured it would sort itself out one way or another in the next 6 months.... and here we are, 6 months later and i'm discovering that everything old is new again.  you all must be exhausted.


----------



## James Douglas (27 November 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Did anyone read the company presentation? Very little cash burn for the period covered! I still think they have one more year to spawn Tuna and get them in the pens for growout. I would not be suprised that if the growout is successful, they sell more stock anyways and dilute existing shareholders again. But it does seem like they have strengthened their R&D with tighter relations with their partners and better focus.


----------



## kingkev (29 November 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I agree............the coming season is going to be a make or break season.  The R&D team is hopefully going to bring in some half decent news and the grow-out is going to achieve better than expected results this time.

This is probably going to be their last chance before all investors jump ship and I believe they know that.  Albeit the share dillutions will continue the long-time holders will hopefully be rewarded.  Too much money to lose to not be a success.

Here's to hoping


----------



## ben.lane (30 November 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Did you guys read the other presentations hagan family have taken the stock holding from I think 41 percent to 26 precent. that doesn't make thing look good for the future business if the directors are slowly bailing out. Hope this isn't the case for the future of the southern bluefin tuna. their are only 8% left in the wild stock left compared to when they started fishing for them.

Cheers ben


----------



## James Douglas (7 December 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Their ownership percentage went down when they did the secondary share sale. They did not sell any shares, just more shares were issued so their percentage of ownership went down. Means very little in the larger context of the story.


----------



## brendoz (21 December 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

does anyone have any fresh news? 

nothing regarding this seasons spawning has been listed in the announcements- and unfortunately i have the belief in CSS that no news is NOT good news!

i choose to hold. my holding is not enough to want to sell anyway, and, while i am starting to sway more towards the ever increasing posts regarding a lack of future within the industry, i would love to see tuna farming become a profitable solution!


----------



## kingkev (21 December 2010)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



brendoz said:


> does anyone have any fresh news?
> 
> nothing regarding this seasons spawning has been listed in the announcements- and unfortunately i have the belief in CSS that no news is NOT good news!
> 
> i choose to hold. my holding is not enough to want to sell anyway, and, while i am starting to sway more towards the ever increasing posts regarding a lack of future within the industry, i would love to see tuna farming become a profitable solution!




I was beginning to think the same.  I was hoping for an announce,emt stating that the male tuna are showing signs of a spawning season like no other but..................I will hold as well and everynow and again I buy more and top up because I believe that this will eventually succeed albeit a long time.  I have been holding for 3 years now and would like to give them another year before deciding on what to do


----------



## brendoz (4 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There's no way im topping up after the last year!

19th of January was when CSS announced spawning had begun for 2010, so an announcement still could be a little while off, i just had in my mind tuna were spawning earlier last year.


----------



## kingkev (4 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Getting a bit jumpy now............

How will the heat wave in SA affect some of their operations.

Hopefully the Tuna boys are not too buggered to play with the Tuna girls

If no announcement by end January I have to think of a continginsy


----------



## James Douglas (6 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Did anyone see the article from Tokyo where a 342 kg tuna was just sold for AUD 494,277? That makes it worth AUD 1,152.85 per kg before he marks it up and sells to restaurants.  Hard to believe that at those prices tuna farming can't become a viable business someday. We hopefully will hear some good news any day now.


----------



## prawn_86 (6 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



James Douglas said:


> Did anyone see the article from Tokyo where a 342 kg tuna was just sold for AUD 494,277? That makes it worth AUD 1,152.85 per kg before he marks it up and sells to restaurants.  Hard to believe that at those prices tuna farming can't become a viable business someday. We hopefully will hear some good news any day now.




Different species of Tuna for one.

I agree that aquaculture is the way forward, but wether profits are acheived by this company or a different one is the question you should ask. Its like betting on one player in a team to be the best player, when you really want to bet on the team


----------



## kingkev (6 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Northern Blue fin tuna from Hokkaido is a bit different to SBT form SA.

At half of those prices, this still makes farming lucrative but I agree with the last poster..................Is CSS the best player in the team


----------



## Sdajii (6 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I greatly doubt farmed tuna is ever going to fetch over $1,000.00 per kg. That's just wishful thinking. I see little point comparing the price an eccentric group may pay for a very unusual 'one-of-a-kind' specimen of something to the price of something which can be farmed in large numbers. It's not even apples and oranges, it's apples and cardboard.

The way I see it, tuna farming probably has a very bleak future. Fish prices will go up, sure. But what does tuna eat? Fish! If fish prices go up because there are no more fish in the sea, people will be desperate for fish, so even the fish like mackerel which aren't all that nice and currently aren't all that popular will be too highly prized to be used as stock feed. For every kg of tuna you need to feed off many kg of other fish. In a world severely starved of fish it seems to make little sense using up many kg of one type of fish to produce 1kg of another type.

Even if they do manage to work out using cheaper land-based feeds (which maybe will be possible at some point in the future, but don't hold your breath; CSS haven't even managed to raise a single tuna from fry to adult, regardless of what feed they use!), in a world starved of wild fish, all food is going to be very valuable, especially meat, so land-based feed costs for farmed tuna would likely become uneconomical anyway.

...this is assuming CSS actually manages to do it one day at all. Even ignoring the economics, CSS seems to have a talent for failing to raise fish, or accidentally killing fish (and by their own claims in one case they didn't realise they'd had a 100% mortality rate until several days after the fish had died! Naturally that was a deliberate lie rather than incompetence, but that doesn't particularly make them seem like a good investment either), or 'accidentally losing' fish! Goodness, could this smell any worse?

I find it strange that CSS still has not announced anything at all in regard to this year's spawning plans. They are brilliant at two things: Stuffing things up and failing to keep the investors informed. I suppose the lack of news could be due to either or both.

This is a definite example of a company I wouldn't invest someone else's money in... unless it was my worst enemy I suppose.


----------



## Liar's Poker (9 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

All,

Thought I'd just post up the latest media item from CSS (22nd December).

http://www.switzer.com.au/small-business/success-stories/entrepreneurs-101-day-three-gone-fishin-your-role-as-entrepreneur/#


*Nothing special, it doesn't mention anything new. *

I just wanted to try and find if they were still active or not. So I went searching to find any news articles since the last ASX announcement.

-Liar-


----------



## kingkev (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Read this one somewhere as well.

I agree with the cant bit as far as buying in all the time.

I am hoping for some sort of announcement to come soon and hopefully something that can take us off the 10c mark


----------



## zzaaxxss3401 (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> For every kg of tuna you need to feed off many kg of other fish. In a world severely starved of fish it seems to make little sense using up many kg of one type of fish to produce 1kg of another type.



Do they like carp? There are plenty of them in the Murray River or Lake Burley Griffin in Canberra. :


----------



## prawn_86 (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



zzaaxxss3401 said:


> Do they like carp? There are plenty of them in the Murray River or Lake Burley Griffin in Canberra. :




As far as i'm aware this is at least one of the feeds CSS use. There is a fishing co on the murray that harvests the carp and sells it as aquatic food and farm fertilizer


----------



## kingkev (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A good tuna for sushi is going to eat a lot nicer fish than carp and talapia.

If they can feed them with pellets alone we might be in for a good ride but I doubt that


----------



## Sdajii (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Obviously they are much nicer than carp, Tilapia or mullet, but those fish still retail for around $10/kg (even carp is considered a table fish in most of the world, and is sold in many Australian markets - Asians and whatever the politically-correct term for wogs is these days in Australia often love carp, and it's often not all that bad). If you need to put many kg of that in to produce one kg of tuna, plus all your farming costs, extra distribution costs, etc, you're going to need very high prices paid for your product. Plus you're facing the prospect of a dwindling fish supply which will make people desperate for ANY fish, which will increase the price of your basic carp, mullet, etc. This looks like a very precarious venture to say the least, not to mention the fact that they are finding it almost impossible to even do, regardless of the cost.

There is also an ethical issue involved with feeding many kg of fish to produce 1kg of fish in a world full of starving people. If it does come to that, and in the case of an empty ocean it might, even if it works economically, which I doubt, it may be socially or even legally unacceptable.

I just see it as madness not to be abandoning the whole venture, from an ethical, ecological and financial point of view.


----------



## kingkev (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Somewhere along the line there has to be financial viability. A lot of money has been spent to date and this venture is not about to throw in the towel.

Ethically it probably has some questions to be anwered as far as emptying out the sea so that their tuna can have a meal or 2 but they are good spinners and will no doubt harp on the fact that they will be reducing native kills to support a species under threat


----------



## Sdajii (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, a lot of money has been spent on this venture, and the people behind it are very wealthy... unlike the people who have tried to invest in the company.

A lot of money having gone into it along with pride and the owners being by their own description stubborn explains why the towel isn't being thrown in, even though it is now obvious that it should be... unless they want to exploit investors, and hey, who among us is too naive to think that goes on?

The ethical issue may be an afterthought to people only interested in making money, and that's fine and understandable within their motives, but the economics just doesn't work, and perhaps the science doesn't either.

I do think your hope of getting off the 10c mark will be answered before long, but it won't be the side of 10c you're hoping for.


----------



## kingkev (10 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A venture of this magnitude is going to take more time and a LOT more money.  The science behind this is trying to keep up with company aspirations.  Whilst still very much in R&D mode the company's dissapointing announcements are still going to be around but that stubborness might just be the X FACTOR to make this a successful venture.  The idea and thematics is all good
I think it is more of a waiting game but we will eventually see the SP move away from the 10c mark as they get closer to achieving more sustainable outcomes and yes move more towards the 20c mark.  It takes a few bad announcemts to send everyone scurrying but a goo/dpositive announcement sees lots of interest as well as money changing hands


----------



## kingkev (19 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Still no news from this crew

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


----------



## drlog (19 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They will probably announce something amazing soon but then announce that all the fish are dead 2 weeks after :

Ok, being serious now: I wouldn't be surprised if they are holding back any announcements until the fish have been alive for a while. That way, they wont need to announce that the once alive fish are now dead. The only problem with this is that the investors are left in the dark.

The alternative is to make announcements like this:

19/1/11 - Fish are born! Hooray!
20/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
21/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
24/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
25/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
26/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
27/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
28/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
31/1/11 - Fish are still alive!
...you get the idea.


----------



## kingkev (19 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I figured the announcement would be coming soon

dead or alive is the question

Here's to hoping


----------



## nizora (24 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> I figured the announcement would be coming soon
> 
> dead or alive is the question
> 
> Here's to hoping





24 January 2011
Company Announcement
TUNA SPAWNING AND HALFYEAR RESULTS UPDATE
Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (ASX: “CSS”) is pleased to advise that its Southern Bluefin Tuna (SBT) broodstock commenced spawning late last week and consequently this season’s SBT larval rearing trials are also under way at the Company’s Arno Bay operations in South Australia.
The various initiatives undertaken during the past year have the Company well placed to progress its knowledge and achievements in the production of juvenile aquaculture bred SBT.
These include the new recirculation SBT hatchery which has now been fully commissioned via a successful trial of yellowtail kingfish fingerling production. Further, the Company has completed its recruitment of a skilled SBT research and development team which is now in place at Arno Bay providing ongoing support to the commercial hatchery team.
Company policy is to provide Investor Updates on the SBT spawning and larval rearing season at critical times in the annual lifecycle development program as follows:
1.
Commencement and cessation of SBT broodstock spawning.
2.
Transfer of fingerlings for controlled grow‐out trials to either sea cages or holding tanks.
3.
Significant progress and/or failures with grow‐out trials, e.g. number of SBT juveniles living post 180 days hatch.


----------



## kingkev (24 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The news is out and some selling going on.  Nothing to get excited about as they are holding their cards close to their chests.  There is a hint of financial losses once again albeit not as big as earlier losses.

Waiting..............waiting.............waiting

Thats all I can do with this stock


----------



## truevalue (28 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> The news is out and some selling going on.  Nothing to get excited about as they are holding their cards close to their chests.  There is a hint of financial losses once again albeit not as big as earlier losses.
> 
> Waiting..............waiting.............waiting
> 
> Thats all I can do with this stock




A fair bit of buying yesterday. 

CSS are still 2-3 months away from getting fish in the sea and, until then, there will be nothing to get too excited about.

Contrary to some other opinions on this thread, if they manage to get a quantity of SBT in the sea cages, then this well be a very valuable company indeed. Don't be fooled by the poor performance of Kingfish, the SBT market is completely different, much higher per kg prices and very strong demand.


----------



## kingkev (28 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That is the big question,

Will they get them out to the cages and how will the grow out go??

How many times are they going to try before they eventually give up


----------



## Sdajii (28 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> That is the big question,
> 
> Will they get them out to the cages and how will the grow out go??
> 
> How many times are they going to try before they eventually give up





They'll keep trying as long as people are silly enough to throw money at them.


----------



## kingkev (28 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A lot of money was thrown around yesterday and a bit more today.  Is this all in desperation or was there something in their announcement that I missed.  I do not see throwing more money at them just because their losses are predicted to be a lot less than previous losses.

Whats'happening here................


----------



## brendoz (28 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

i pulled out a while back now for 10.5.

whatever, i took a loss, but considering the potential losses from the kingies, and weigh it up with the likelyhood of a successful growout of the bluefin, even if it is a good story this season, i recon my money is better off elsewhere at the moment. my opinion.


----------



## skc (28 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> A lot of money was thrown around yesterday and a bit more today.  Is this all in desperation or was there something in their announcement that I missed.  I do not see throwing more money at them just because their losses are predicted to be a lot less than previous losses.
> 
> Whats'happening here................




The other fish company TGR got a second takeover offers so people are probably getting a little bit exited about the sector.


----------



## sashimi (30 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Most of the value related to this business is tied up in the technology and the potential value of the intellectual property right.

Mark my words there is going to come a day that anybody will be able engage in breeding tuna with a low cost entry if you choose the right location.

Check this link out .


http://www.prlog.org/10842983-breeding-tuna-outside-the-square.html


----------



## robusta (30 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> A lot of money was thrown around yesterday and a bit more today.  Is this all in desperation or was there something in their announcement that I missed.  I do not see throwing more money at them just because their losses are predicted to be a lot less than previous losses.
> 
> Whats'happening here................




Have to agree with you there, call me fussy but I will look at CSS when/if they actually make a profit.


----------



## kingkev (31 January 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Granted the value of this company is more in its technology and less about its successes.

The only thing constant with this bunch is change and lets hope that there is change for the good around the corner


----------



## pixel (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> Granted the value of this company is more in its technology and less about its successes.
> 
> The only thing constant with this bunch is change and lets hope that there is change for the good around the corner



 Looks as if your wish is coming true 
... and an ASX "Please explain..." could be imminent


----------



## truevalue (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sdajii is unwinding his short position:


----------



## Sdajii (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Sdajii is unwinding his short position:




Hahaha! Nice one!

I'm guessing the price rise is due to people figuring the spawn will cause excitement. They're looking for a quick profit. If I didn't have such an aversion to touching anything that crappy, I'd have considered doing the same myself at 10-11c and selling shortly after the spawn announcement (before the failure announcement which won't be much further down the track  ).

The whole of CSS has smelled very fishy (pun intended) for a long time. The genuine believers will probably be excited about now, just before the spawn, and hey, maybe they'll even manage to keep a few fish alive this time, but even if they do I can't see things being economically viable, and even if it was, which I just can't see, the guys running the show have clearly and repeatedly shown that they're dodgy.

It's interesting to watch anyway


----------



## nizora (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Looks as if your wish is coming true
> ... and an ASX "Please explain..." could be imminent
> 
> Many may have forgotten:
> Trailing one year: the value of $1,000 invested one year ago is $481 [vs $1,089 for the All Ordinaries index], for a capital loss of $519. The total return to shareholders for 1 year is -51.9%. Trailing five years: the value of $1,000 invested five years ago is $278, for a capital loss of $722.


----------



## kingkev (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

come fishy fishy !!!!

I am from North Qld so was quite surprised to see a small jump in SP today once electricity was reconnected again

Is there an annoucement coming

something like little fish survived 30 days................

happy days


----------



## pixel (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

well - whatever the reason: The volume spike on 24th Jan gave it away early.
Those of us, who bought on that signal (speccie, sure - no sheep stations!) are now up 40%. Tomorrow will probably be the day to take profit.


----------



## kingkev (3 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

so that means topping up again............

40% profit is always nice but 80% is better

the next few months could see a lot of fluctuation in the sp


----------



## pixel (4 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> so that means topping up again............
> 
> 40% profit is always nice but 80% is better
> 
> the next few months could see a lot of fluctuation in the sp



 I'll probably take as many off the  table as necessary to make the rest "free carried".
That's not because I wouldn't like those 80% profit for the full position, but only because I'll take a couple of weeks off, during which I don't want to risk any more of my capital than I consider safe or feel I can afford to lose.


----------



## kingkev (4 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well looks like the profit taking has started

Might be a good time like you say to take a few weeks off and play the watching game.  I have been holding and topping up since 2007.............I still have some way to go to get some back


----------



## nizora (8 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> so that means topping up again............
> 
> 40% profit is always nice but 80% is better
> 
> the next few months could see a lot of fluctuation in the sp




If you sold already, 40% would be a regret!  NOW 80% is imminent ,100% and  more is a  real possibility! I am holding!


----------



## kingkev (8 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Come fishy fishy

Some decent buying this morning

Watching.......................watching.............


----------



## tge oracle (9 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, I may have to concede that my prediction that CSS would not survive as a viable entity could prove to be wrong. They appear to have turned the YTK business into cash flow positive, reduced costs/overheads and successfully raised capital despite an extremely sombre outlook last year.
The market is certainly telling me I am wrong since the spawning announcement in Jan. I did state that there was ample time to invest in CSS again should they survive until this years spawning, this has been achieved.
This market response has forced me to reconsider my position on CSS as investors appear confident of success with growout this year.
I was planning to wait until an announcement about transfer to sea pens or successful progression to juvenile SBT but as they say in the industry “ the market waits for nobody  “. 
The value of CSS is rising rapidly on high volume and waiting may prove costly.

The main factors that have altered my outlook include:

1.	New Chairman JEF should ensure ethical disclosure and corporate governance.
2.	YTK is cash flow positive with market expected to grow.
3.	Successfully raised capital despite sombre outlook.
4.	Reduced costs/overheads.
5.	Adjusted value of YTK inventory.
6.	Installed necessary infrastructure to ensure best possible chance of SBT propogation.
7.	NTA of around 25c +.
8.	Strong investor response to this years spawning. 
9.	Possibility that after years of failures they may actually exceed their goal of research/ pre-commercial quantity of SBT.

The main risk is the same as always……SBT mortality and failue to progress beyond last years achievements.

There is still substantial risk involved in investing in CSS but my interest in aquaculture and, in particular, the Sashimi Tuna Industry has overrode these concerns.

Disclosure – I have re-built my stake in CSS and the above should not be considered as a recommendation to invest in CSS.


----------



## kingkev (9 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The strong interest is interesting considering that they have not even come near surpassing last years successes.  It appears to be pure speculation and if they do better than last year at the growout stage there could be considerable movement in the sp

come fishy fishy.............


----------



## boltonator (11 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> The strong interest is interesting considering that they have not even come near surpassing last years successes.  It appears to be pure speculation and if they do better than last year at the growout stage there could be considerable movement in the sp
> 
> come fishy fishy.............




I have been watching these guys and learning about them for months, but yet to pull the trigger. I have read every post on this forum. While I understand nothing is assured, I am buying in because 1) I do not think they will give up on tuna-farming (stubborn company, probably backed by groups we don't even know about) 2) Kingfish, Mullaway are looking favorable in the coming quarters 3) It is logical that they have learned from mistakes, and the science is catching the ambition 4) heavy investment in facilities. tell me more, good or bad. I can expect a 10-20 percent pullback before more news?


----------



## kingkev (11 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

well the sp has certainly pulled back a bit over the past few days,...............Is it now that the trigger should be pulled.  I am considering topping up again at 14c as there seems to be a bit of resistance at the 15c mark.

It has to be time for this bunch to show some successes and show as all that they have learrned from their indiscretions and past failures.  That is one way to gain back everyones conmfidence and see some upward movement in the sp.  Anticipating the timing of the next announcement and getting a buy in before the announcemment is the key.


----------



## sashimi (13 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

As you all know the different Governments around Australia have invested tens of millions $$$$ of public money in this company.

In cash grants wages and travel expenses and capital investment.

and

I WANT ACCESS TO THE KNOWLEDGE

Anyone care to stand beside me.


----------



## kingkev (14 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I think we all stand with you as far as information access is concerned


----------



## sashimi (14 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> I think we all stand with you as far as information access is concerned





information is irrelevant.

it's access to knowledge and understanding that we want.

you never know we might even be able to help.


----------



## kingkev (15 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Access to knowledge is a whole different story.  Copywrite is an issue and if only we could that would be god sent and yes who knows, we could even help.  At this point in time the only help we can provide is by buying more and more shares and thats a bit daunting with this group.


----------



## Fishy Business (15 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

For Example  

What If..................The knowledge has already been shared with someone else , or another company


----------



## kingkev (16 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That could be interesting

If they have shared their knowledge and expertise with another company then hopefully that company can come along and takeover CSS and who knows they may be able to get the Tuna out to the market then

If only......................


----------



## tge oracle (20 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

As we wait for news on the SBT breeding program for this season I thought I should draw your attention to the YTK business and aquaculture demand in general.

It shouldn’t be too long before Tassal Group ( disclosure- I am invested in TGR ) release details of their takeover/buyout offers. It would appear that there is worldwide interest in acquiring TGR from a diverse range of interested parties such as private equity buy out firms PEP and Paine & Partners along with global seafood giants Marine Harvest and Cooke Aquaculture.  Additionally, there may be other undisclosed interested parties. 

As the world demand for seafood grows the attraction to invest in aquaculture entities becomes more competitive, particularly companies that have a quality product, are well managed and most importantly, profitable.

The overriding reason for my re-investment in CSS is that they have finally made the YTK business cash flow positive. This is significant as it positions CSS as a viable buyout or takeover opportunity even if the SBT program should fail.
Southern Star have been running a successful and profitable YTK business for more than a decade now and I am convinced that YTK is a product that has immense potential for growth if it is effectively marketed throughout the world.

The demand for food resources will continue to grow exponentially which will, in turn, lead to a commensurate demand for food producing companies as seen by the interest in TGR.

Disclosure- My opinion only. i am invested in CSS and TGR.


----------



## kingkev (21 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I believe that the upward shift in the sp after the announcement was more about the progress of the YTK division and certainly not that the company made a smaller loss than last year.  Whilst the YTK are profitable the tuna rearing will no doubt be absorbing most of the profits thus keeping the company in the black for a while yet.  The SBT breeding program this year will dertermine a lot...................takeovers could be possible pending the outcome and how investors react


----------



## nizora (24 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> tge oracle said:
> 
> 
> > As we wait for news on the SBT breeding program for this season I thought I should draw your attention to the YTK business and aquaculture demand in general.
> ...


----------



## kingkev (24 February 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Not a lot of movement in SP after the announcement.  Investors are cautious and will wait until gthe growout actually takes place.  At sea growout is great but even if they have to raise them in tanks will also do wonders for sp

Come fishy fishy!


----------



## Liar's Poker (1 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

All,

News release on Adelaide Now re: CSS.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/cleanseas-fingerlings-in-the-tank/story-e6frede3-1226011563058

-Liar-


----------



## AngusSmart (1 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

And an even newer one

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...ion-dollar-catch/story-e6fredel-1226013575594


----------



## kingkev (2 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Nice reading but nothing to entice buying as yet.  Hopefully by the end of the month some positive announcement can be made regarding the tranfer to cages.  Its a waiting game with this lot


----------



## nizora (7 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

“Vote of confidence”

7TH March 2011 

GLOBAL AQUACULTURE INVESTOR’S NEW 

BACKING FOR CLEAN SEAS TUNA 

One of the world’s largest private investors in the global aquaculture industry has moved to a 17% shareholding in Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: "CSS") following a $6.9 million share placement announced today by the Australian company. 

Clean Seas Tuna advised that it had raised $6.9 million with the placement of 62.7 million shares at 11 cents per share with leading international aquaculture industry investor, Mr Frode Teigen of Norway. 

The new shares – representing 15% of Clean Seas Tuna’s current issued shares - take Mr Teigen’s total shareholding in the Company to 17%.


----------



## drlog (7 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> “Vote of confidence”
> 
> 7TH March 2011
> 
> ...




On one hand this is bad since it dilutes other shareholders but like you say, it could be a vote of confidence - after all, I imagine Mr Teigen would have looked at what CSS has before handing over $7mil.

Oh well, the fish aren't dead yet...that we know of


----------



## kingkev (7 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes anotherr share dillution about to happen but an overall half decent feeling that some big investment into this group is happening and that gives me a little comfort.


----------



## nizora (7 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

*You have been warned !!!*
7TH March 2011

“While the level of capital available to the Company through such share placements is vital to fund our ongoing Southern Bluefin Tuna program, the Clean Seas Tuna Board will ensure that the Company’s current shareholders are provided with *the opportunity to participate in future capital raisings.*


"Along with existing cash reserves, funds raised from the share placement and any *further capital raisings *will provide working capital for the Company’s expanding operations, and particularly for the ongoing pioneering research into spawning and larval rearing of Southern Bluefin Tuna." 


"Importantly, our investment is also made on the basis of our understanding that *additional funds will be needed *to achieve success with such world-first initiatives, especially to support the growing biomass when commercial quantities of Southern Bluefin Tuna fingerlings are transferred to sea."


----------



## truevalue (7 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> *You have been warned !!!*
> 7TH March 2011
> 
> “While the level of capital available to the Company through such share placements is vital to fund our ongoing Southern Bluefin Tuna program, the Clean Seas Tuna Board will ensure that the Company’s current shareholders are provided with *the opportunity to participate in future capital raisings.*
> ...




That was always assumed Mate. They have always said it will cost $100m to grow out 10,000t of SBT. When you have $5m in the bank capital raisings are to be expected. The only question will be: At what price will they do it? 

If they get 1000's of live fingerlings into sea cages then I would (like to) think it would be well north of 11c.

Anyway the announcement finally gives us the true identity of tge oracle


----------



## Sdajii (7 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I still say it's as bad a long-term investment as ever, but it looks like there might be some juicy trading opportunities ahead for anyone who doesn't mind temporarily holding shares in a dodgy company. I won't be able to bring myself to do it, but I'll be watching with interest.

Good luck to all holders (said very much tongue-in-cheek  )


----------



## kingkev (8 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I believe that this bunch will get their fingelings into sea cages this year, however, immediatly after that announcement we will see some capital raising going on and yes hopefully north of 11c.  This bunch will strike when the iron is hot and that will only be with successfull transfer to sea cages

HOLD TIGHT


----------



## drlog (8 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> I still say it's as bad a long-term investment as ever, but it looks like there might be some juicy trading opportunities ahead for anyone who doesn't mind temporarily holding shares in a dodgy company. I won't be able to bring myself to do it, but I'll be watching with interest.
> 
> Good luck to all holders (said very much tongue-in-cheek  )




Hehe, I bought $500 worth for ****s and giggles. The thing is, I know I am just gambling


----------



## kingkev (8 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Many changes in this company have occured over time and there is an awful lot for this company to lose if it does not succedd in the near future.  Let's hope it is this year

I have held for a long time now and yesterdays announcement helps a lot with my confidence

Yes you are a gambler and yes sometimes you CAN win


----------



## tge oracle (9 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



truevalue said:


> Anyway the announcement finally gives us the true identity of tge oracle





Hello again Truevalue,

I would be very happy to identify myself as our friend Mr Teigen but I am not quite up to his level of investment in the aquaculture industry....I'm working on it though.
Although I have rebuilt my original investment in CSS I intend to add to this when details of the SBT propogation trials and progress with YTK marketing / sales become clearer.
I hope they handle the Cap Raising better this time and not allow minimal holders to 
oversubscribe at the offer price. It should be conducted on a pro-rata entitlement based on share holding value.


Although I have ended up trading this share over the past 5 years, not intentionally, I would much prefer to buy and hold for the long term like Mr Teigen. Let's all hope that Management can deliver this year. I will have no hesitation in moving out again if they resort to past practices as described in many previous posts and as highlighted by Sdajii.


----------



## boltonator (10 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> I still say it's as bad a long-term investment as ever, but it looks like there might be some juicy trading opportunities ahead for anyone who doesn't mind temporarily holding shares in a dodgy company. I won't be able to bring myself to do it, but I'll be watching with interest.
> 
> Good luck to all holders (said very much tongue-in-cheek  )




Am I correct in assuming that the economic feasability of sbt relates to feeding them? I understand that regardless it will be neccesary to grow-out and sell a certain number to break-even and better yet generate profit, but does not the Kingfish and/or Mullaway fishery support the sbt as a food source? Could this be the reason that they have over-produced in previous years, anticipating a need for feed for the tuna, and being stuck with excess, unmarketable product when the sbt did not grow-out? We all know they are using Kingfish as food; I have ran some numbers, and I see profitability. I mean, these are gold bars with fins.


----------



## drlog (10 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



boltonator said:


> Am I correct in assuming that the economic feasability of sbt relates to feeding them? I understand that regardless it will be neccesary to grow-out and sell a certain number to break-even and better yet generate profit, but does not the Kingfish and/or Mullaway fishery support the sbt as a food source? Could this be the reason that they have over-produced in previous years, anticipating a need for feed for the tuna, and being stuck with excess, unmarketable product when the sbt did not grow-out? We all know they are using Kingfish as food; I have ran some numbers, and I see profitability. I mean, these are gold bars with fins.




Sdajii is referring to the high probability (from past experiences) that the SBT will be dead before we know it. Actually, they are probably dead now  Sure, if the SBT survive a while and they can grow them out then its all dollar signs. Seriously though, what are the chances of actually growing out the SBT without something going wrong?

As for food, I thought (and I could be wrong) they were developing a food saussage from cheaper food sources like grains. Whether it works or not, I don't know.

Heh, I like your gold bar with fins metaphor


----------



## kingkev (10 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

no doubt feeding these little torpedo's is very expensive.  Not sure if their over production in kingfish was deliberate but it does make sense if they planned to use them as feed. I suspect greed was a factor in over production.  Landbased feed would surely be more economical but I think that has still to be tried and tested.

Yes I also think they are gold bars with fins..............its all in the processing of these bars


----------



## boltonator (12 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Day of quake- 17% pullback response in U.S OTC, reflection of significance of Japanese tuna market (unless I missed something). But...this could adversely effect Japanese sbt attempts. May facilitate 1st to market. 

I am glad to hear the U.S. is on its way to help them, the Japanese are an admirable culture.


----------



## kingkev (12 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Most of the tuna frams and research stations are located in central and southern Japan, Wakayama, Ehime, Kochi, Nagasaki, Amami (Kagoshima) and Okinawa Pref.

With this mind and not a whole lot of news to go on..........the Tuna could be safe but not sure

Either way CSS will need to gets s&^%$ together to make any headway into the japanese market


----------



## kingkev (13 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

considering that no fingerlings survived beyond 38 days last year and we have been told that the 33 day mark has passed...................we could be in for an announcement soon....................probably closer to the end of the month and lets hope its a good one


----------



## nizora (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> kingkev said:
> 
> 
> > considering that no fingerlings survived beyond 38 days last year and we have been told that the 33 day mark has passed...................we could be in for an announcement soon....................probably closer to the end of the month and lets hope its a good one




Hoping the good news will not end by April!

14 March, 2011

The Company today announced that the latest stage in the lifecycle research and development program was reached late last week when the first batch of Southern Bluefin Tuna fingerlings was transferred from the onshore Arno Bay nursery tanks to an at-sea cage for controlled grow-out trials. 

Some 90 fingerlings – now ranging in length from eight centimetres to ten centimetres and weighing up to 15 grams – have been transferred to a 25-metre cage offshore. The transfer to sea follows successful weaning of the fingerlings onto a manufactured diet. 

http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110314/pdf/01161109.pdf


----------



## drlog (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Hoping the good news will not end by April!
> 
> 14 March, 2011
> 
> ...




So they are basically saying that 180 of the SBT are alive and half of those are out at sea? Even though they are gold bars with fins, I expect that selling 180 "gold bars" wont bring in that much money once they finally grow out in a few years time. Thoughts anyone?

Heh, at least my $500 gamble is now $680.... :dance:


----------



## prawn_86 (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> Thoughts anyone?




It's about the process. No one has been able to breed them in captivity before, so if they can grow them out to full size, even with a small amount, then in theory it should be fairly scalable.

As far as i understand they didnt make it to manufactured food or sea cages last year, so if they survive it shows another step in the direction they are pursuing


----------



## AngusSmart (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



drlog said:


> So they are basically saying that 180 of the SBT are alive and half of those are out at sea? Even though they are gold bars with fins, I expect that selling 180 "gold bars" wont bring in that much money once they finally grow out in a few years time. Thoughts anyone?
> 
> Heh, at least my $500 gamble is now $680.... :dance:





I'm pissed.. i sold my position last week for a $0 profit.. however i did make a little this morning on a quick trade..

Good news as its one step from lastyear! lets see how they continue to go. looks like your gamble might get better


----------



## drlog (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



AngusSmart said:


> I'm pissed.. i sold my position last week for a $0 profit.. however i did make a little this morning on a quick trade..
> 
> Good news as its one step from lastyear! lets see how they continue to go. looks like your gamble might get better




Every time CSS seems to have "good news", the SP goes up quickly but then goes back to exactly where it was before. I wouldn't be surprised if the SP goes down to 13c by the end of the week.


----------



## kingkev (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There will no doubt be fluctuations in the sp as this for many is still only a trading stock and not one to hold on to for a long time.  I am more of a holderer  oner.........

Heres to hoping


----------



## Sdajii (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

DrLog: 180 fish is barely enough for dinner, let alone something commercially relevant, but to some extent it's about the process rather than the scale at this stage. Still, it is a concern that they only have 180 fish. That means there has been a massive mortality rate so far with just a handful of survivors.

This company has a habit (I won't say talent, 'cause it's usually pretty transparent) of making bad news sound good. Rather than saying "Oh, $#!t, almost all of them are dead" they're saying "Hooray! We have fish to try our techniques on!"

Remember a couple of years ago when they were excited about raising fish to larger than this size? They didn't mention numbers, but it was less than a dozen (I spoke to one of the directors personally) and they just had them in fish tanks, and of course, they died. So, this isn't the first time they've had fish survive to this stage (go back and check the company's history, it's all there), it's just the first time since they did it a couple of years ago, and once again, they are working with very small numbers.

If the methods were working with an acceptable level of mortality they'd have a lot more than this tiny handful of fish to play with, and juvenile mortality is still a massive issue they haven't solved. They had enough eggs for a commercial quantity this year, and if all went well they'd have tens of thousands going offshore rather than a few dozen, less than 100.

It is good that they've weaned them on to a manufactured diet though, and even a few dozen fish will let them trial their methods.

I doubt they'll drop back to 13c this week without bad news, but I doubt they'll be above 13c mid year unless the market believes the spin and hype, which I suppose is likely.


----------



## kingkev (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Its about scale and baby steps.  There is no direct link between fish mortality as yet but I have to agree with Sdajii.........this bunch can be rather sneeky when it come to disclosure.  Accountability is one thing but transparency is another


----------



## boltonator (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am going to be optomistic (yea, I have only been really "following" these guys for less than a year, and have not been bitten like some have). If the sea tanks raise 10-20 to marketable size (which is certainly possible) from the current brood, and the next 2011 brood gets, say, 200-300 in the cages, we are on to something. If they can get ANY fish to marketable size from this years brood...hey, I can dream, can't I?

You guys need some fresh, idealistic opinions, don't cha?


----------



## kingkev (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

For the reasons you noted above ......that is why I am holding.


----------



## nizora (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_



*180 fish* is barely enough for dinner, let alone something commercially relevant, but to some extent it's about the process rather than the scale at this stage. Still, it is a concern that they only have *180 fish*. That means there *has been a massive mortality rate* so far with just a handful of survivors.
		
Click to expand...


_
I am inclined to agree with Sdajii that  this company has not been telling the whole story.  180 fish survive out of millions egg ? Mathematically speaking this does not add up? I wish I had more information ????


----------



## boltonator (14 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> I am inclined to agree with Sdajii that  this company has not been telling the whole story.  180 fish survive out of millions egg ? Mathematically speaking this does not add up? I wish I had more information ????




I think the story is told, though the story naturally accentuates the upside.


----------



## kingkev (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Could it be that many more survived and that they will come through in batches?

They are still in the R&D phase so it makes sense to tranfer little bits at a time.  They never actually stated that thats all they got from a million eggs but then one can never be toooooo sure about this bunch.

90 fish at a time is way below our expectations but then again there could be a method to their madness


----------



## boltonator (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> Could it be that many more survived and that they will come through in batches?
> 
> They are still in the R&D phase so it makes sense to tranfer little bits at a time.  They never actually stated that thats all they got from a million eggs but then one can never be toooooo sure about this bunch.
> 
> 90 fish at a time is way below our expectations but then again there could be a method to their madness




Yea, I thought about that, and it is a definite possibility. The way it is worded, it sounds methodical. But u think they might have included that tid-bit.


----------



## pixel (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> Could it be that many more survived and that they will come through in batches?
> 
> They are still in the R&D phase so it makes sense to tranfer little bits at a time.  They never actually stated that thats all they got from a million eggs but then one can never be toooooo sure about this bunch.
> 
> 90 fish at a time is way below our expectations but then again there could be a method to their madness



 They say "a similar number" are kept back in tanks; if more survived, where would they be?


----------



## kingkev (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes , that is the million dollar question.  Are the rest still alive and coming through later or have they perished?  We certainly would like more info than titbits............and if we are going to get titbits then at least give us titbits with substance and meaning


----------



## tge oracle (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There is still a long way to go with SBT commercialisation, realistically, a few more years. Just look at Kinki University's progress and time lines.
The transfer of fingerlings is in early stages, the fish are only a couple of months old and mortality rates in sea pens will also be critical.
The spawning mortality rate is to be expected in the early stages but, none the less, they have progressed beyond last years program. This will be enough to support the company moving forward. 
They will need to maintain a strong focus on YTK profitability and sales for the value of the entity to rise throughout the year.
The immediate concern will be the impending capital raising, which will be substantial in my view.
It is important that they focus on long term share holders now and not pander to traders and speculators by allowing investors to buy a small $500 parcel of stock then oversubscribe at the offer price which, last time , was not cut back.
If they don't they will not build a base of larger long term private investors, which they need, and the stock will get flipped on re-opening with continued excessive volatility.
I am hoping they will conduct a pro-rata, maybe one for one, issue this time as it will support the entity pre and post Cap Raising.


----------



## boltonator (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> There is still a long way to go with SBT commercialisation, realistically, a few more years. Just look at Kinki University's progress and time lines.
> The transfer of fingerlings is in early stages, the fish are only a couple of months old and mortality rates in sea pens will also be critical.
> The spawning mortality rate is to be expected in the early stages but, none the less, they have progressed beyond last years program. This will be enough to support the company moving forward.
> They will need to maintain a strong focus on YTK profitability and sales for the value of the entity to rise throughout the year.
> ...




Yes, and transparency will promote long term investment...as long as there is the belief in progress, and maintaining operations. But with liquidity being an issue, as every investor can see in financials, they are in the position where they need to entertain both the investor as well as the less fundamentally-judgmental trader. When the fish...any fish...are at marketable size, the investor will step in and comprise a larger share of ownership. US OTC volume was O today, even after the news, but we are watching and waiting. I try to see this company through two lenses; tuna, and other operations. The firm looks to be moving positively through both. As long as the small steps continue to be taken, this firm will continue to keep moving forward and continue to have the backing of "anonymous" benefactors. And I look for another big investor to step up in the next 60 days. And I am going to guess that Japanese efforts will be less vigorous then they might otherwise be, even on the southern part of the island.


----------



## pixel (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The expression "moving forward" makes me puke. since it's been hijacked into Pollie-speak 
But apart from that, CSS does look reasonably supported by now. Having taken part profit yesterday, I'd like to see the gap closed and my 13c bid filled though; afterwards I'm happy for it to rocket on.


----------



## kingkev (15 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

There has no doubt been some profit taking but the hype will settle down shortly and then the anxious wait for the next announcement. It looks like there is support coming through so hopefully all reads well from here on in


----------



## truevalue (16 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> The immediate concern will be the impending capital raising, which will be substantial in my view.
> It is important that they focus on long term share holders now and not pander to traders and speculators by allowing investors to buy a small $500 parcel of stock then oversubscribe at the offer price which, last time , was not cut back.
> If they don't they will not build a base of larger long term private investors, which they need, and the stock will get flipped on re-opening with continued excessive volatility.
> I am hoping they will conduct a pro-rata, maybe one for one, issue this time as it will support the entity pre and post Cap Raising.




I am of the view that a capital raising will not be required until there are a commercial quantity of SBT in the water (several thousand), so at least 1 year away. For 180 fish it wont cost more than $400k to growth them to 20kg. Growth rates will be very interesting from here.


----------



## kingkev (16 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am of the view that capital raising will be evident prior to there being a commercial quantity in the water.  They will need the capital to get a few thousand tuna of commercial quality in the water.  I think that after the second batch goes into cages for growout and the mortality rate is not too large they will strike as us not-so-well-informed investors will assume the best.


----------



## tge oracle (16 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Truevalue,

Kingkev stole my thunder. 
I am assuming that the present infrastructure is pre-commercial, at least, that has been my understanding from CSS press releases.
If this is the case, surely, they will need the infrastructure in place prior to spawning next season, after all, it is not built overnight.
In anycase, they will really need to improve the cash flow and profitability from YTK over the winter months to support a reasonable entity valuation. If they start bleeding funds again they will miss the current investor interest and support in the company.
I would be very surprised if they don't go before cessation of this seasons spawning and growout trials.


----------



## Sdajii (17 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> Clean Seas Tuna Ltd director Sir Tipene O'Regan, who retired on March 15, 2011, held no shares at the time of his retirement.




Heh heh heh


----------



## kingkev (17 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

NOTHING,ZIP,..........................that is difficult to digest

Are twe getting the whole story?...................this is almost unheard of where a director retires with sweet fa

can anybody comment on this?


----------



## tge oracle (17 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> NOTHING,ZIP,..........................that is difficult to digest
> 
> Are twe getting the whole story?...................this is almost unheard of where a director retires with sweet fa
> 
> can anybody comment on this?




Kingkev,

Normally, I would share Sdajii's skepticism, however, he only had options exercisable at $ 1 plus. Not taking them up at 14c is a no-brainer.


----------



## kingkev (17 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

thanks for the clarification


----------



## kingkev (30 March 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Apperaed to be some buying yesterday.  Could that be in anticipation of an announcement coming soon.  Assuming that the trials for their fingerling growout is proceeding as planned when can we expect an update on proceedings?  Is it going to be better than in the past where mortality rates were very high or can we expect an improved performance thus a half-decent announcement?

Waiting...........waiting..............

Who can really tell but this could be the prelude to a capital raising announcement?


----------



## kingkev (6 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Finally an announcement

Not a catastrophic one but one that underlines the fact that commercuialisation is a fair way off yet.  The reasearch and development continues and eventually they will be seeking money but this looks likely to happen at a much later date after a more detailed announcement on their progress to date.

Any thoughts


----------



## truevalue (6 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I thought it was as good as we could have expected given the information that had been released so far. They have completed the lifecycle of the SBT. All they need now is to show they can do it in commecial quantities.

I agree that a capital raising is still a way off. They have plenty of cash to do what they need to do for the next year at least.


----------



## pixel (6 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> Finally an announcement
> 
> Not a catastrophic one but one that underlines the fact that commercuialisation is a fair way off yet.  The reasearch and development continues and eventually they will be seeking money but this looks likely to happen at a much later date after a more detailed announcement on their progress to date.
> 
> Any thoughts



 My first thought was, they can't do Maths.

The first batch of 90 fish transferred to sea was joined by 65 more; so now they have 85 survivors - yet they claim a mortality rate of only 2%? Is that 2% per day or week??? 

Seems Ms Marquette is just as confused: early buying gave way to selling, albeit on high volume. And we finished at the end of day on the same 15c as was traded for weeks.


----------



## kingkev (6 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

interesting summation.  I was wondering if they meant 20% and not 2 %

The dicerning buyer is still sitting on the fence.  The sp only reached a height of 16c and with a lot of volume.  No spikes today


----------



## tge oracle (6 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In my opinion, the spawning and transfer to sea pens would be disappointing to CSS. They, like myself , would have been hoping for a more significant quantity of fingerlings from this years trials. I would describe this years achievement as            " underwhelming".
The successful transfer to sea pens is an achievement but I think this has been more due to improved infrastructure and quality control ( incubation tanks, filtering systems, feeding protocols etc. ) rather than a better understanding of what is required to achieve a commercial quantity of fingerlings.
I have reduced my holding on today's news as there is still a very long way to go before commercial quantities of SBT will be realised. I am not confident this will be achieved next season.

As for a Cap raising, they will try to hold out to next years spawn but YTK sales and profitability will have to be supportive.

I will maintain a minority holding for the time being and review my position as the year unfolds.


Note- I have reduced my holding in CSS. The above is my opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## kingkev (7 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I personally think that they have made very good in-roads.  We would all have liked to see quantities increased.  baby steps first.  This is far better than upping the quantities only to see massive quantities die due to transfer. CSS cannot afford to make many mistakes as they will be severely punished by share holders.  I think thye key word is "TRIALS"

Now that they have achieved a small success their skills and expertise will now be tested when the quantities increase.

Interesting times ahead and hopefully the YTK sales can support this venture.


----------



## Sdajii (7 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I don't know why this is being called a first time completion of the life cycle. They got further than this two years ago, it's just the first time they've done it since 2009. Close to 100% mortality in 2009 at this stage (and a full 100% at a slightly later stage), full 100% mortality in 2010 before they got this far), and again we're seeing close to 100% mortality this year, perhaps they'll get a few dozen fish to saleable size (which would be a first, even if it was only one fish), but they're still dying and a few dozen is all that's left.

The only first this year is the transfer to sea cages (which yes, is somewhat cool). In typical CSS style, the report is vague. Is it a 2% mortality rate or is it a cleverly hidden mortality rate which is much higher? They had 90, added 65 and now have 85. Even if we assume that the 65 were included in the original 90 (which meant they were exaggerating earlier), they only have 85, and five deaths out of 90 fish is around triple 2% If we read it as they said it, they've lost 70 fish out of the 155 they got to fingerling stage, which is closer to a 50% mortality rate since then.

Their numbers don't add up.

This is typical of CSS. If they had nothing to hide and things actually were going well they'd just say "We started with x, y happened and now we have z" rather than several years of smoke and mirrors. This company and the fact that some give them any credibility just boggles me, and the greatest value it serves me is as a benchmark for how bad a company's behaviour can be and still get away with it, giving me an idea of how much skepticism to view other companies with.


----------



## boltonator (7 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> I don't know why this is being called a first time completion of the life cycle. They got further than this two years ago, it's just the first time they've done it since 2009. Close to 100% mortality in 2009 at this stage (and a full 100% at a slightly later stage), full 100% mortality in 2010 before they got this far), and again we're seeing close to 100% mortality this year, perhaps they'll get a few dozen fish to saleable size (which would be a first, even if it was only one fish), but they're still dying and a few dozen is all that's left.
> 
> The only first this year is the transfer to sea cages (which yes, is somewhat cool). In typical CSS style, the report is vague. Is it a 2% mortality rate or is it a cleverly hidden mortality rate which is much higher? They had 90, added 65 and now have 85. Even if we assume that the 65 were included in the original 90 (which meant they were exaggerating earlier), they only have 85, and five deaths out of 90 fish is around triple 2% If we read it as they said it, they've lost 70 fish out of the 155 they got to fingerling stage, which is closer to a 50% mortality rate since then.
> 
> ...




Tell me, are you as opinionated about companies you do like? I would think even more so...


----------



## Sdajii (7 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



boltonator said:


> Tell me, are you as opinionated about companies you do like? I would think even more so...




Tell me, does any of my previous post not make sense?

In any case which is as blatantly obvious as CSS is, one way or the other, it's easy to have a firm opinion. If there were companies as good as CSS is bad, yes, I'd be equally opinionated about them, though probably not quite so outspoken (because hey, I'd be wanting to buy as much as I could as cheaply as possible  ). Of course, a company that good would quickly become heavily bought and thus not so great an investment anyway.

Unfortunately it's easier to find a crap company to lose your money on than it is to find a brilliant company to make heaps of money on. Case in point


----------



## kingkev (7 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A lot of changes have happened with CSS in recent years.  Give them credit where credit is due and yes knock them when they deceive us.

I was not very happy with their last announcement because of what might have been left out.  This will surface in due time but who knows what the sp will do in the meantime.  I hold these stocks but............................


----------



## kingkev (11 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like the market has responded negatively to their last announcement.  I presume a lot of people have done their maths and nobody came up with a result like they did..........2% mortality.  The mind boggles on how a company can put up a result like that and all the info we are given just does not make sense.

Is there more info to come that could clarify this?


----------



## Liar's Poker (14 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Check the latest media article on the AdelaideNow site - http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/south-australian-company-fined-over-bizarre-dive/story-fn6bqphm-1226039304554

Strating to think they might be more successful breading Clown Fish...

-Liar-


----------



## pixel (15 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Liar's Poker said:


> Check the latest media article on the AdelaideNow site - http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/...ver-bizarre-dive/story-fn6bqphm-1226039304554
> 
> Strating to think they might be more successful breading Clown Fish...
> 
> -Liar-



 How relevant is an incident today that happened in 2007 ?
And no matter what the current crop of nanny-state ambulance chasers say: This guy was drunk as a skunk when he dived into the cage to "rescue" some dead fish. The mind boggles!

Anyway, even the judge commented along those lines - but he had to fine the company $27,000 under a law that rewards stupidity.
As a positive result, CSS now have a zero tolerance drug and alcohol policy.


----------



## kingkev (15 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CLOWN FISH................had a great laugh at that

Pack of idiots but hoped they have learned something since then


----------



## boltonator (22 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

2% mortality rate is probably from the time they began transport to cages to when they hit the water. 2% in-transit loss. Not a particularly telling ratio, and insignificant compared to larval loss and other issue-specific mortality rates, but I am sure it is the best ratio they could prove and put to print. Grow tuna, grow! 

While I hear demand for Kingfish at css is up, has there been any recent pen-to-paper action which would mean pending sales increases? Anything in the can, or speculation only?


----------



## tge oracle (29 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The key comment in today's announcement is the quantity of remaining fingerlings which are now down to 55. This implies a mortality rate of approx 35% which is way beyond what I was expecting at this stage of development, this, in addition to the mortality rate of larvae is a major concern in my view. I simply can't see them progressing beyond research propogation for many years. They will need hundreds of broodstock to even consider commercial production at these mortality rates.


----------



## kingkev (29 April 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The brrodstock is small indeed and if they put this all down to research and development then yes there is a hell of a long way to go and it's going to cost heaps.

Not happy with mortality rates and the sp will reflect that after they have absorbed the dissapointing announcement


----------



## tge oracle (10 May 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have decided to exit CSS entirely as the poor SBT propagation, rampaging australia dollar and precarious financial position is taking it's toll on CSS.
Additionally, i have been watching AAC for some time with a view to invest. The recent Capital Raising has provided an opportunity to purchase at fair value, in my view.
I have committed additional funds from the sale of CSS to AAC.
TGR remains my only exposure to the aquaculture space for the time being.  

Disclosure - No longer invested in CSS. Invested in AAC today. LT Hold TGR.

Note - I will continue to watch CSS.


----------



## kingkev (12 May 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Not a lot of people are happy with the way things are tracelling with CSS.  The rising dollar will certainly have a negative impact as will the high oil prices.  I see the Aussie dollar retracting to around the 95c mark by year end and the oil price also coming off its highs.  These are positive for CSS but as for their poor SBT propagation..........this could be the determining factor in keeping their SP at all time lows.

They will need copious amounts of money in order to succeed and a capital raising exercise could be sooner than later.

Only just holding on..............could this be the fish that got away???


----------



## nizora (13 May 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

13 May 2011
In light of the pleasing results outlined to the market on 29 April 2011 in regards to the progress of the Clean Seas Tuna (CSS) Southern Bluefin Tuna breeding programme, the Directors of CSS are pleased to provide shareholders with a collage of photographs taken over the past three spawning years.
Shareholders can also find a short video of the current living juvenile tuna in their sea cage by visiting the company's website www.cleanseas.com.au under the News and Media section - YouTube Channel, or at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XNsqUi445E


----------



## kingkev (13 May 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Photos are always nice to look at but the fact remains that this bunch has a long way to go to get to commercialisation.  Only a few fish have made it thus far.  I am a holder and will continue becuase of the thematics behind it all


----------



## tge oracle (16 May 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The key information in today's presentation is the commentary regarding a 2nd broodstock tank. I agree that they will need more broodstock but at current fingerling mortality rates they will need dozens of tanks, not just one. 
The other factor for those of you still invested is that these tanks are very expensive to build, operate and maintain. This investment will require substantial funds in my view and will result in a significant Capital Raising further diluting existing shareholders, if it succeeds.
I am no longer invested but will watch with interest from the sidelines. There will be ample time to reinvest in the future as this 2nd tank won't be ready until the end of 2012 so next summers spawning will,once again, only be at research quantities.

Disclosure - Not invested, My opinion only and not based on any factual information.


----------



## Liar's Poker (17 May 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I have decided to exit CSS entirely as the poor SBT propagation, rampaging australia dollar and precarious financial position is taking it's toll on CSS.
> Additionally, i have been watching AAC for some time with a view to invest. The recent Capital Raising has provided an opportunity to purchase at fair value, in my view.
> I have committed additional funds from the sale of CSS to AAC.
> TGR remains my only exposure to the aquaculture space for the time being.
> ...






tge oracle said:


> The key information in today's presentation is the commentary regarding a 2nd broodstock tank. I agree that they will need more broodstock but at current fingerling mortality rates they will need dozens of tanks, not just one.
> The other factor for those of you still invested is that these tanks are very expensive to build, operate and maintain. This investment will require substantial funds in my view and will result in a significant Capital Raising further diluting existing shareholders, if it succeeds.
> I am no longer invested but will watch with interest from the sidelines. There will be ample time to reinvest in the future as this 2nd tank won't be ready until the end of 2012 so next summers spawning will,once again, only be at research quantities.
> 
> Disclosure - Not invested, My opinion only and not based on any factual information.




Similar to tge oracle above, I'm not longer a holder of CSS, but will continue to watch them closely over the coming months, to years, to decades.

Although I believe they will one day become commercially successful, I also believe my capital can be better invested in other opportunities. In other words, plenty of fish in the sea (sorry, had to do it).

My opinion only (DYOR) - good luck to all holders and watchers. 

-Liar-


----------



## kingkev (10 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Some late buying going on

anybody have any thoughts


----------



## tge oracle (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Today's announcement confirms what I have always suspected and eluded too in an earlier post, Arno Bay is in the wrong location to successfully growout BFT. Quite simply, the water is too cold. SBT juveniles spend much of their early life in warm tropical waters , not the cold Southern Ocean.
As for their plans to continue research, be prepared to be disappointed. Any moves to expand tanks/infrastructure at Arno Bay would be futile in my opinion and would leave investors deeper out of pocket.

Not invested. Opinion only.


----------



## kingkev (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Still in R&D stage and attempting to right the wrongs.  They plan to grow out the juveniles quicker and hopefully this can make a difference.  Water temps only need to change 2 or 3 degrees to make a difference

holding and continue to accumulate


----------



## Sdajii (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Haha! I just read the announcement! They're claiming success because they have SBT still alive at 150 days in sea cages. No numbers given, of course, and you could probably count them on your fingers.

Exaggerating is what this company always does (when it's not lying), but what I loved was that they said the fish were not expected to survive winter, so it's so wonderful that they did! Haha, if they weren't expected to survive winter why the heck did they run the project in this way? If we are to believe this announcement, it is an admission by the company that they actually planned/expected to fail!

As oracle says, the location is a problem. Even if the fish survive, the growth rates will be poor. The probably really need to be kept warm when young so that they can grow quickly, then kept cool for a while to improve texture and flavour.


----------



## Bigukraine (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Just incase you may have missed it,the mining side of things is gearing up around the eyre pen.
near cowell iron road want to start loading iron ore via a floating jetty system and centrex are going forward with the port project at sheep hill near tumby bay/port neil with the addition of a desal plant in the mix and a pipeline ,slurry system to load their ore.
Yes these projects may be 2-5years from starting (if all being well) but the insistance to stay at arno bay even if they overcome the "wrong spot to do it" inpost,could be the worst decision they make inlight of the potential for the habitat to change.....typical short sighted approch by this mob and good luck to holders.... your gunna need it IMO.


----------



## kingkev (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They would know the ramifications of this mining approaching their surrounds.........

I keep harping on the fact that these guys are still in the R&D phase and they will only be successfull if they take all things into consisderation.  They might already have plans to close off Arno bay functions and look for somewhere unspoit.  We just do not have all the info and they know this.  That is why sometimes we are influenced into making UNINFORMED decisions because we are largely left out in th cold.


----------



## Bigukraine (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> They would know the ramifications of this mining approaching their surrounds.........
> 
> I keep harping on the fact that these guys are still in the R&D phase and they will only be successfull if they take all things into consisderation.  They might already have plans to close off Arno bay functions and look for somewhere unspoit.  We just do not have all the info and they know this.  That is why sometimes we are influenced into making UNINFORMED decisions because we are largely left out in th cold.




And the big problem is with "who's" money are they going to effect  the possible needed change? Too many "grant",s have been "steered" in this direction and it is looking more like they "can't" "steer" their way out to get the needed capital....


----------



## kingkev (28 June 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes that is the big question...........if this stock gets to 15c they will probably pounce on another capital raising session.  Too big to not succeed...........too much debt and holding value in assets.  Just keep buying in when I can because lots to gain if successful. When is a long way away. Slowly slowly here...........until2015 and if things have not improved dramatically, all other things equal, then I will take my losses.

no big sp hikes.........too many people have been burnt in the past and are trading water here


----------



## Boggo (17 July 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looks like Hagen may be feeling the pinch...

tuna-millionaire-sued-in-bill-battle


----------



## tge oracle (18 August 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The resignation of the CEO adds another layer of uncertainty to CSS. It doesn't look good when a CEO, supposedly in for the long haul, jumps ship when a company is about to embark on a new phase in it's development. I wonder if Mr Ashby has finally realised that SBT propagation and growout is years, probably decades away. He can obviously see greener pastures elsewhere!


----------



## kingkev (18 August 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That is certainly a possibility.  Maybe he will be long gone by the time they get it right.


----------



## robusta (3 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Another capital raising for CSS, I wonder when/if these guys will start to generate a positive return?


----------



## notting (3 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

They do.  They get it from share holders.


----------



## pixel (3 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



notting said:


> They do.  They get it from share holders.



 Not from me, they aren't getting any.
I sold first thing Wednesday morning while I could get 9 and 8.9c.
If they hold the price above 8c, I'll give it some consideration, otherwise I'll let my entitlement go to the 'keeper.


----------



## tge oracle (4 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Not from me, they aren't getting any.
> I sold first thing Wednesday morning while I could get 9 and 8.9c.
> If they hold the price above 8c, I'll give it some consideration, otherwise I'll let my entitlement go to the 'keeper.
> 
> View attachment 45065





There is no keeper Pixel, by that I mean there is no underwriter to this opportunistic raising. I note this is being pitched to retail investors with no mention of participation by institutional shareholders or the Stehr's and that's because , I believe , they wouldn't participate.
This sudden Cap raising also brings in to question the profitability of the YTK business.
They say they only need $5M, I bet they wish they could ask for more, problem is, that would spook the market.

Disc - Not invested, opinion only


----------



## tge oracle (8 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> There is no keeper Pixel, by that I mean there is no underwriter to this opportunistic raising. I note this is being pitched to retail investors with no mention of participation by institutional shareholders or the Stehr's and that's because , I believe , they wouldn't participate.
> This sudden Cap raising also brings in to question the profitability of the YTK business.
> They say they only need $5M, I bet they wish they could ask for more, problem is, that would spook the market.
> 
> Disc - Not invested, opinion only




In connection with my earlier post, I note that the share purchase documentation has been issued.
I am surprised that this offer is not underwritten considering their optimistic predictions for the CSS , in particular, the YTK business. I also note that the SP is languishing at the offer price which doesn't bode well for full participation. 
My main question would be if things are so great why are the major investors left out with only mum's and dad's being asked to stump up?
Another observation is the numerous errors made in the initial SPP advice announcement , which had to be subsequently corrected on the ASX. I can't help thinking that this SPP was put together in such a hurry, without warning, that they couldn't even get the grammar right.

Disc - not invested, opinion only.


----------



## Sdajii (9 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> My main question would be if things are so great why are the major investors left out with only mum's and dad's being asked to stump up?




The major investors are smart and well-informed enough not to bother.

Even if only a tiny proportion of the shareholders take this up they'll raise all the capital they're trying to get. The main reason for this might just be to make it look like investor sentiment is strong, because "Hey look, the SPP was oversubscribed!"

It's not a big capital raising they're doing, it just seems like they're doing what CSS always does: playing silly games.

If CSS dumped its pie in the sky tuna game it might even do okay, but it seems they've already pumped too much into it to be willing to turn back now. Some have said this is too big to fair... I think failure is inevitable, but it's too big to put an end to it before it fails.

Goes without saying, but... Disclosure: Not holding CSS.


----------



## tge oracle (15 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

My fascination and interest in aquaculture, particularly Tuna propagation, and CSS's current valuation has prompted me to commence accumulating. 
I was considering waiting until next year but didn't expect the valuation to drop to these levels.
It is very hard to ascertain the true value of CSS, however, I do see value in the YTK business and infrastructure assets. Brokers appear to apply a book value of around 15c. I am not applying any value to the SBT business but there could be intrinsic value in the scientific knowledge recorded/documented over the past few years.  
JEF gave an optimistic outlook for 2012 and beyond which is encouraging as he has a respected reputation in the business community and is unlikely to make statements he doesn't believe are factual.


Disc - commenced accumulating CSS.


----------



## nizora (16 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> _*JEF* gave an optimistic outlook for 2012 and beyond which is encouraging as he has a respected reputation in the business community and is unlikely to make statements he doesn't believe are factual._




Who is JEF ?


----------



## tge oracle (16 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Who is JEF ?




Nizora, 

Sorry, I thought most would realise I was referring to John Ellis-Flint ,CSS Chairman of Board Of Directors, that's the problem when using acronyms.
The AGM ( Annual General Meeting ) was held yesterday. The text of his address is on ASX announcements. 
His history and background is on the CSS website.
I only hope they can secure the services of a CEO of his calibre. There is no reason why the YTK business can't be run profitably and efficiently under good stewardship.
A good CEO will not surprise the market with unplanned Cap Raising's such as the latest. They knew the SBT project will require substantial funds. I was concerned that YTK was falling behind again, however, JEF reported that sales are growing and ahead of budget so this is why I decided to start accumulating yesterday.

Make no mistake, CSS is still a very risky proposition but I do believe they are starting to slowly head in the right direction.

disc - Invested in CSS ( accumulating ). Opinion only, not based on any factual information, just my intuition.


----------



## nizora (21 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Nizora,
> 
> _Sorry, I thought most would realise I was referring to John Ellis-Flint ,CSS Chairman of Board Of Directors, that's the problem when using acronyms.
> The AGM ( Annual General Meeting ) was held yesterday. The text of his address is on ASX announcements.
> His history and background is on the CSS website._




Thank you tge!


----------



## tge oracle (24 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In reference to my earlier post re-CSS valuation , I have applied the following estimates. ( Pls Note - My valuations are not based on any factual information. The CSS valuations are itemised in the annual report )

1. Property / Infrastructure - $ 15M ( CSS - $ 30M )
2. Biological Assets ( SBT / YTK stock ) - $ 10M ( CSS $ 16.6M )
3. Non current assets ( leases/licences etc.) - $ 5M ( CSS - 13.1M )
4. intangible assets ( research/goodwill etc ) - $ 0 ( CSS - 15.3M )
5. Cash on hand - $ 7.3M ( CSS- $ 7.3M)

My valuations apply virtually no value to the SBT side of the business in all of the above areas. These valuations will amplify considerably with SBT commercialisation or a significant improvement in YTK production and sales.

Note - Invested in CSS  ( accumulating ) . My opinion only,  DYOR.


----------



## nizora (25 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> _The major investors are smart and well-informed enough not to bother.
> 
> Even if only a tiny proportion of the shareholders take this up they'll raise all the capital they're trying to get. The main reason for this might just be to make it look like investor sentiment is strong, because "Hey look, the SPP was oversubscribed!"
> 
> ...




Why would anyone bother to subscribe when you can get it cheaper from the market??


----------



## Sdajii (25 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Why would anyone bother to subscribe when you can get it cheaper from the market??




That's a good question now. They only reason would be if they pulled a carrot out before the deadline. I imagine that's what they'll do, and buying now is probably a good trading opportunity. Enough people will go for the plastic carrot for you to sell at a profit before they bite the carrot and say yuck. It's a little tempting, but I haven't followed them closely enough to be sure enough that it will all go that way. CSS has always been prone to putting out stupid announcements which are nothing but hot air, but there are always enough stupid people around to fall for it, at least briefly. It looks like a very likely time for it to happen. I can't see it pumping up much above where it is now though, and I'd say it'll be the usual yearly sequence - they'll hype things up around spawning time, get people excited, price goes up, they exaggerate things - last season was "Oh wow, we put fish in the ocean and they froze to death! AMAZING PROGRESS!" the season before was "We did the same thing we did last year! We can't prove that if we hadn't killed them all stupidly they might have lived and been salable (oh, and no, it's not that we lied about all the fish being dead, we just are too stupid to notice thousands of dead fish rotting for a week or so, yeah, just shut up and believe it, everyone!) AMAZING PROGRESS!" and the year before it was similarly stupid. No real progress has been made for about four years, but they always claim amazing leaps and bounds. There are probably fewer people left to fool this year, and people are very risk averse at the moment. It'll be an interesting one to watch anyway.


----------



## tge oracle (25 November 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Nizora / Sdajii,

You are quite right in your observations. Firstly, I don't believe the Cap Raising will be well received with very low participation by retail investors. It will be interesting to see if they have a plan B i.e. institutional/major investor underwriting the shortfall.
Everything you say is correct Sdajii, they have cried wolf too many times over the years for investors to be sucked in again. CSS has been very poorly run and managed on all levels, in particular, corporate governance. If they don't appoint a quality CEO who is not influenced by other's within and around CSS the future will be bleak.  To restore any sort of credibility they will have start with the new CEO.

The stakes are high, hence the low current valuation. They have to succeed this season with either SBT propagation with an outcome that will lead to commercialisation or YTK profitability for the whole entity ( not just the YTK business itself ).

Part of the reason I have decided to accumulate is that their business and assets would be attractive to a potential suitor at these levels. There is money to be made from YTK if the business is well run and managed. TGR have been doing it for years with Salmon and Southern Star with Kingfish. 

Disc - as per previous post.


----------



## nizora (8 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Nizora / Sdajii,
> _
> You are quite right in your observations. Firstly, I don't believe the Cap Raising will be well received with very low participation by retail investors. It will be interesting to see if they have a plan B i.e. institutional/major investor underwriting the shortfall._
> 
> Disc - as per previous post.




Sadly  : Clean Seas Tuna Limited advises shareholders that the Share Purchase Plan announced 2 November 2011 and which closed on 2 December 2012 raised $1,621,500 (20,268,750 shares in total) before costs at a subscription price of $0.08 per share.
The Company is encouraged by the extent of shareholder support considering the challenging market conditions and the fact that the company’s shares traded at or slightly below the offer price of $0.08 for the majority of the offer period. Directors thank shareholders for their continuing support.


----------



## kingkev (8 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Sadly  : Clean Seas Tuna Limited advises shareholders that the Share Purchase Plan announced 2 November 2011 and which closed on 2 December 2012 raised $1,621,500 (20,268,750 shares in total) before costs at a subscription price of $0.08 per share.
> The Company is encouraged by the extent of shareholder support considering the challenging market conditions and the fact that the company’s shares traded at or slightly below the offer price of $0.08 for the majority of the offer period. Directors thank shareholders for their continuing support.




Well that was to be expected.....why buy at 8c when you could get them cheaper.  I got another parcel under 8c and just happy to accumulate at this time. Expecting a result soon on their progression of fingerlings and earlier spawning.


----------



## tge oracle (8 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If only CSS were as good at running a viable aquaculture company as they are at putting out BS and spin.

They have totally mis-read the reason for the Cap Raising shortfall. Investors are no longer prepared to commit more funds without results.
The reason the share price fell below issue price had nothing to do with market sentiment this was specifically CSS sentiment driven, investors have had enough.

This season will be crucial and the poor response sends a very strong signal to them that the game is up. They have to turn this company around this season one way or another.

Note - Invested. Ceased accumulating. Awaiting further information on CEO, BFT spawning and YTK sales ( profitability ). Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## kingkev (8 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> If only CSS were as good at running a viable aquaculture company as they are at putting out BS and spin.
> 
> They have totally mis-read the reason for the Cap Raising shortfall. Investors are no longer prepared to commit more funds without results.
> The reason the share price fell below issue price had nothing to do with market sentiment this was specifically CSS sentiment driven, investors have had enough.
> ...




Must agree TGE,

If they bring out ann like unexpected mortality rates because of xyz.........and any other hint of negativity, the sp could easlily be 5c.  This spawning and growout season is going to be crucial to their survival.  Holding tight for now


----------



## Sdajii (8 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm sure they have misread nothing. Their grasp of the facts is presumably fine, but as always their public story and spin is a little different from the fairly obvious reality. Their spin really is wearing thin. They can hardly say "Gee, everyone has lost hope and we're really in a pickle now!" can they?

I don't really see this season as crucial for the SBT project, I think that was really two years ago (they needed much better progress than they got) which might (but still probably wouldn't) have allowed for some successful growouts in the season just gone. With the project developments, currency rates, global food prices and the overall global economic situation, the SBT project is really dead in the water, and now is high time to accept that and focus on the possibility of running a successful YTK business. There is just so much working against the SBT project, and no real progress has been made for years (even if they claim 'amazing progress' when they manage to keep four fish alive in a fish tank for a few months or throw a few fish out into an ocean pen to freeze to death... wow, fantastic job, guys, you're just about there, I'm just so inspired).

If they do get it to work it will be fantastic, but the chances of green 0 coming up on the roulette wheel are higher, and the rewards are much greater (though admittedly, so is the negative result, but not by as much as the positive). You also don't have to wait so long for the result and there is probably less spin in roulette than CSS. At what stage do you accept defeat and change strategy? The SBT project is one stubborn man's dream (in his own words), which is fine, but why anyone else would want to invest in that at this stage is beyond me. I'd literally much rather stick my money on the roulette wheel.

The spawning will probably go well again, and they'll put positive spin on any results (heck, a couple of years ago they put positive spin on an early 100% mortality rate!), a couple of years ago that would have caused a spike in the share price and a good trading opportunity, but I think anyone who was likely to be fooled by them crying wolf has already heard the cry and been fooled now, so nothing much will happen without solid results, and I really can't see them coming.

Having said that, if against incredible odds they get a good commercial harvest of SBT in the coming season and it turns out to be economically viable, as unethical as the company is, it will be pretty exciting to see.


----------



## tge oracle (9 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sdajii,

I think it will be crucial in the sense that unless they can move toward commercialisation this season they will have to abandon or dramatically reduce the scale of the SBT project. It is unlikely investors will continue to fund this project on the present scale of operations.
If they don't succeed with progress toward commercialisation they will need to focus on the YTK business.
There was an interesting program on Huon Salmon recently. This business is family owned and is 2nd in size to TGR. This company was started by a Sheep/Cattle farmer and his wife a few years ago. They knew nothing about aquaculture, however, they learned and persevered and now have a multi million dollar business.
It is a sad indictment on CSS with their wealth of aquaculture knowledge and experience that they can't even run a profitable YTK business.
I only hope they can secure the services of a competent CEO who will put a broom through the place and turn this business around.

Disc - As per previous post.


----------



## Bigukraine (15 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

just a short note from me living on the EP, the fingerlings going out to the sea pens

may already be doomed before they start.....it looks like on long range weather forecast's we (like last year) will be in for a cool summer and an indicator from mother nature is a type of water fowl (run around the ground like a chicken) has been spotted by me for the first time and upon asking a neighbour of twenty odd years this is only the fourth time he has seen them and a wet summer has always followed...
have to wait and see what happens but won't hold my breath ....


----------



## Tysonboss1 (15 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> This business is family owned and is 2nd in size to TGR. This company was started by a Sheep/Cattle farmer and his wife a few years ago. They knew nothing about aquaculture, however, they learned and persevered and now have a multi million dollar business.
> Disc - As per previous post.




Is this the show you talked about



Salmoning farming is a tried and prooven profitable enterprise, What css is involved in is much different.

To be honest I can't see why people who want exposure to this sector would choose css over a company like Tassal,

At Tassal's Current price it is trading below book value of it's current assets, with an OK (but growing) return on equity, and it's pe is below 8.

Why invest in unprooven, hype and hope when other things are available so cheaply.


----------



## tge oracle (15 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

BigU / Tboss1

Firstly, i wouldn't be too concerned about the air temp in SA over summer, the most important factor will be the temp of the Leeuwin current which flows across the Bight to SA/VIC during the summer months. By all accounts the Indian Ocean/ North WA temps are at normal levels. This will be the main influence on SA water temps over summer.

As for the program, this is not the one I was referring too. It was screened a few weeks ago on one of the current affair/morning shows and  featured Ray Martin as the presenter. It focused more on the husband and wife who started Huon Aquaculture from nothing ( they were sheep/cattle farmers ) having no knowledge or experience with aquaculture and building it up to a multimillion dollar business.


disc - CSS ( as before ) . TGR - Invested.
Agree with TGR sentiment, I am invested, but YTK is a viable business also if properly run and managed. Southern Star have been successfully farming and marketing YTK for many years. It is privately owned so no actual figures are available, however, it's longevity suggests it is very profitable.


----------



## kingkev (20 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Are we going to get an ann before Xmas??????????  Not sure.....By bringing forward the sbt spawning by 6 weeks maens that something should be happening around this time.

Waiting for a Xmas present..............hopefully not smelly fish that died in the spawning or growout process.


----------



## tge oracle (20 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> Are we going to get an ann before Xmas??????????  Not sure.....By bringing forward the sbt spawning by 6 weeks maens that something should be happening around this time.
> 
> Waiting for a Xmas present..............hopefully not smelly fish that died in the spawning or growout process.




The spawning will need to happen soon BK otherwise they will run out of summertime water temps like last year. 

Of greater concern for me , however, is the total lack of confidence in CSS shown by the Directors of the company. Ellis-Flint ( Chairman ), M.Sterhr ( Ops Manager ), Ashby ( former CEO ) and Steere ( acting CEO ) did not put one penny towards the recent Cap Raising. They couldn't even bring themselves to stump up for the minimal $ 1k .
This speaks volumes in my view and raises serious questions about the comments made by E-F at the AGM regarding growing confidence of the Directors. Hagen to his credit, participated, he had no choice really, but it would be only small change for him. 

Disc - Reduced since directors holding announcements published. Maintain hold on remainder awaiting CEO, spawning announcements.
Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (22 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It would appear that CSS are incapable of bringing the SBT spawning forward enough to ensure a summer water temp growout for the SBT fingerlings. We are reaching the end of Dec and still no spawn. By my calcs. previous early spawns occurred around the 2nd/3rd weeks of Jan. They will not achieve their stated goal of 6 weeks early , it will be more like 2-3 weeks provided it happens now. The clock is well and truly ticking as the outcome  may be no different to last year, at best.

The failure of the Directors to participate in the Cap Raising had me scrutinising E-F's comments in his presentation at the AGM. One thing stuck in my mind and now has me wondering what he meant when he said quote " the company is working toward profitability in the YTK business in the short term". 
I am wondering what he meant here i.e does he mean it will be profitable soon, or, will it be profitable in the short term whilst they clear excess inventory. I now suspect the latter as this will mean medium to longer term YTK will be , possibly, unprofitable. 
What does this mean for CSS well, quite simply, they will be spending more than they earn, hence, the Cap Raising. The weakness in the value of CSS is being attributed to this burning of cash in my view. I will need to reassess my valuation of a couple of weeks ago as I worked on the assumption of very low cash burn and a profitable YTK business in the long term.

Anybody else have a view on this or have you all bailed out of CSS long ago?

Disc -invested - Holding reduced to minimal since Director disclosures. My opinion only,not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## kingkev (23 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> It would appear that CSS are incapable of bringing the SBT spawning forward enough to ensure a summer water temp growout for the SBT fingerlings. We are reaching the end of Dec and still no spawn. By my calcs. previous early spawns occurred around the 2nd/3rd weeks of Jan. They will not achieve their stated goal of 6 weeks early , it will be more like 2-3 weeks provided it happens now. The clock is well and truly ticking as the outcome  may be no different to last year, at best.
> 
> The failure of the Directors to participate in the Cap Raising had me scrutinising E-F's comments in his presentation at the AGM. One thing stuck in my mind and now has me wondering what he meant when he said quote " the company is working toward profitability in the YTK business in the short term".
> I am wondering what he meant here i.e does he mean it will be profitable soon, or, will it be profitable in the short term whilst they clear excess inventory. I now suspect the latter as this will mean medium to longer term YTK will be , possibly, unprofitable.
> ...




One of the reasons I have stayed in........is because I think that the YTK business will eventually bring in the dollars..........I think most of the shareholders see past the YTK and focus a lot more on SBT which is another story all together.  I sopke with them 3 days ago about spawning earlier but :NO COMMENT"  they will let the public know when they are ready......I got the feeling things have started but a bit like you and think that they might only be able to bring spawning forward by 1 or 2 weeks MAX.  This will not suffice and we will see mortality rates up there again and the sp....well how low will it go.......maybe 5c

I will hold for all my silly reasons and probably even accum,ulate if it gets to 5c or 6c


----------



## tge oracle (24 December 2011)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

You may be right Kingkev but they have had 6 years to get the YTK business right and still can't make it profitable. SBT is another story, but spawning may already be too late for this season.
I will continue to hold my remaining investment but the lack of confidence shown by the directors has be concerned. CSS are very poor at disclosure so inveStors have to watch for signals and this is one of them for me.

Disc- invested. DYOR.


----------



## kingkev (5 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Happy to see that they finally have found a CEO.  Good to hear he has aquaculture experience as well.  Hopefully he has good customer relations experience as we are tired of being kept in the dark with minimal and obscured communication.

Hopefully he can give us some communication on spawning progress


----------



## tge oracle (5 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

He does seem to possess the necessary aquaculture experience, I am not so sure about his Management credentials though. CSS need a CEO who can effectively manage on a leadership and financial level, they already have an abundance of scientific and aquaculture experience within the company to advise the CEO.

In any case, the failure to spawn SBT early is the real issue for investors now. I am not an expert but I do believe it is too late for this years juveniles, if they achieve any. 
We are almost at last years spawn date which proved unsuccessful last year. 

Disc - invested ( minor holding ) . Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (6 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In the news today, record price for BFT $ 736K ( 269kg fish ). 



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-16421231


----------



## kingkev (6 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Would be Great to see our SBT get to 10% of the size of that one.  Cannot find much on the new CEO's business acumen.......although a lot on research.

We need an ann NOW on the spawning

Can someone put a cracker under their backsides and see if we can get some info out of them?


----------



## tge oracle (6 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> Would be Great to see our SBT get to 10% of the size of that one.  Cannot find much on the new CEO's business acumen.......although a lot on research.
> 
> We need an ann NOW on the spawning
> 
> Can someone put a cracker under their backsides and see if we can get some info out of them?




I guess the reason they are so quiet is because there is nothing to report. Under ASX listing guidelines they are duty bound to inform the market when an event material to the value/share becomes apparent.


----------



## moXJO (8 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> In the news today, record price for BFT $ 736K ( 269kg fish ).
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-16421231




Thats a one off charity price isnt it? Well once a year price


----------



## nizora (9 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> _
> Hopefully he can give us some communication on spawning progress_




Early Commencement of 2012 Southern Bluefin Tuna Spawning Season
Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: “CSS”) is pleased to report early progress with its previously announced strategy of bringing forward spawning from the Company’s Southern Bluefin Tuna (SBT) broodstock.
The company is encouraged that the first element of the strategy has been achieved with spawning commencing significantly earlier than last year’s spawn start at Clean Seas’ specialised hatchery at Arno Bay on the Spencer Gulf, South Australia.
The earlier start is with a regular number of small but viable spawns in the past month, allowing the instigation of the all-important new season’s larval rearing trials at the hatchery.
Our aim is to continue spawning the tuna for as long as possible to enable our team of experts to further progress the Company’s understanding of tuna juvenile production.
As previously advised, the ultimate target strategy for the new spawn is to advance timing and provide older, more resilient fingerlings for marine grow-out by the time ocean water temperatures begin to drop in the Autumn.
In summary, the Clean Seas team is encouraged by the earlier spawning activity and awaits expectantly the crucial next stages towards achieving further progress overall with its SBT breeding program.
The Company will provide investor updates on the current SBT spawning and larval rearing season with the next key stages being the spawning build for production volume and then transfer of fingerlings for controlled grow-out trials to either sea cages or holding tanks.
As previously reported, Clean Seas achieved a world “first” in March 2011 with the successful transfer of 149 juvenile SBT into a sea cage from the Arno Bay breeding facility.
The SBT juveniles eventually succumbed to the cold winter ocean temperatures, which in turn led to the Company’s strategy of bringing forward the current spawning season and targeting the ocean transfer of the SBT fingerlings during warmer water temperatures.


----------



## kingkev (9 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Not exactly what we were looking for.............where are the details?

Dissapointed


----------



## tge oracle (11 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The announcement confirms my suspicions that this years breeding season is unlikely to to show any improvement from last year and that is why the Directors did not participate in the Cap Raising.
Even if spawning improves it is too late, the water temps will be too cold and result in mortality of the SBT juveniles.

I have written off this seasons SBT project and will wait for news on YTK sales, inventory and profitability. 

Disc- Reduced to absolute minimum holding in order to participate in next Cap Raising which, in my view, will be needed this year. Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## kingkev (11 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Agree with you there.

They might decide to grow out most fingerlings in tanks under controlled conditions.  

I believe the plan to bring forward the spawning and grow out is a GREAT plan but they have not done enough and the rsulting mortality rates will show this later on.


----------



## tge oracle (13 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Bringing the spawning forward is the right concept Kev but I am not convinced they will be able to achieve this in reality. The main problem ,as I see it, is that the water temp in the broodstock tank is too low. SBT spawn in the warm tropical waters of the Java Sea. They need to replicate these conditions to encourage spawning.
One way of achieving this would be to install solar heating to the main broodstock tank to alter the water temp cycle. This would be expensive to install and operate but I am of a view that significant( read-commercial ) spawning will only occur if water temps are a lot warmer.
Another option would be to install solar heated growout tanks for the juveniles. This would require a lot more funds as the tanks would need to be of sufficient size and scale to accommodate the fingerlings.
I am afraid SBT will remain in research mode if they continue down their current path.

They required $ 5M to cover SBT costs this summer and only received $1.6M. I can only assume they will be drawing down on their cash reserves, unless YTK is profitable and contributing.
Either way, they will require substantial funds to move forward this year and another significant Cap Raising will be required in my view. The lack of participation by investors last time suggests that it would need to be massively discounted and, even then, may not be successful.
I will , once again, sit on the sidelines for now.

Disc - Min hold invest. Opinion only, not based on any factual information.DYOR.


----------



## kingkev (13 January 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well I have stopped accumulating for now.  Going from research to commercialisation is no doubt going to cost a lot.  I think there will be some sort of positive ann come out fairly soon and if the share price spikes they will be quick to follow up with another capital raising.  Astute buyers like the 2 of us, I suspect, will just sit and watch as we have been burnt before.  Water temp is certainly an issue and that issue will not go away and trust that their research into this is thorough.  Tuna feed in another issue that could stall things.  Seals are also having a ball getting into the cages and enjoying some free sushi.  The more I look into this the more problems become apparent.  

The YTK business is what keeps this one afloat however the market see's CSS as a Tuna business and nothing else.  Holding on the basis that they their research team will eventually cross their t's and dot all their i's and get it right.


----------



## tge oracle (1 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yesterday's 4C show's a disturbing decline in revenue from sales ( YTK ). 

June 11 - $8.8M
Nov 11 - $ 7.6M 
Jan 12 -  $ 7M

Despite their claims of increasing prices, IMO ,the rundown of inventory has been the main contributor to revenue over the past 12 months. This excess inventory must be nearing completion so we will get a true picture of sales over the course of this year.

disc- As before.


----------



## tge oracle (3 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Another worrying sign for CSS today, Frode Teigen is selling down. I thought Citi or JP Morgan were doing the selling. It is far more concerning that FT is reducing as he has a very good understanding of the aquaculture industry and, in particular , the outlook for CSS. I regard this as a massive vote of no confidence for CSS. First the Directors, now FT, it doesn't bode well for the future. 

Disc- hold bare minimum for now. Opinion only. DYOR


----------



## nizora (7 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Another worrying sign for CSS today, Frode Teigen is selling down.




Not sure where you got the information from. Did Frode Teigen  dump the shares privately?


----------



## oldblue (8 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Not sure where you got the information from. Did Frode Teigen  dump the shares privately?




Change of Substantial Shareholder notice, dated 3 February 2012.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120203/pdf/4244vvdpjcbkyv.pdf


----------



## nizora (8 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


oldblue said:



			Change of Substantial Shareholder notice, dated 3 February 2012.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120203/pdf/4244vvdpjcbkyv.pdf

Click to expand...


_ 
Thanks oldblue. Missed that  report completely.

Interestingly, one parcel  of this off market transfer was 11.5 cents  , well above the market price of 8 cents: 12,228,108 shares $1,408,992.

I would assume ,whoever bought the parcel ( paying 30% premium) must have confidence in the company.


----------



## tge oracle (8 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Thanks oldblue. Missed that  report completely.
> 
> Interestingly, one parcel  of this off market transfer was 11.5 cents  , well above the market price of 8 cents: 12,228,108 shares $1,408,992.
> 
> I would assume ,whoever bought the parcel ( paying 30% premium) must have confidence in the company.




I wouldn't be too hasty in reaching that conclusion Nizora. He actually sold heavily during last seasons spawning bounce from March through to May while there was sufficient volume. The sp reached 18c at that time and traded around 12-14 for quite some time. What is important is that he has continued selling up to Jan 2012 and, I believe, will continue to do so when there is enough volume. His average price is around 11c over the course of the year but he is presently selling under 8c.

I had considered him a long term foundation investor when he purchased in 2010. I now believe he has lost confidence in CSS and wants out.
Time will tell if I am correct.

Disc - min invest. Opinion only . DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (9 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have decided to exit my remaining minor holding. Now that FT is selling down it is unlikely another white knight will appear. I was going to hold for the inevitable Cap Raising this year but I am not convinced it will succeed. In any case, there will be an opportunity to purchase on market, probably at a lower price than the CR, if they succeed.

disc- Not invested. Opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (13 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Look's like me and KingKev are the last men standing on this thread.

This may well be the last you hear from me as I go into hibernation until next season, although, I don't believe there will be a next season.
My previous prediction of CSS's fate, in 2010,  was unexpectedly saved by the emergence of white knight Frode Teigen. I don't believe that will happen again.

Reading between the lines on today's announcement I can see the following:

1. SBT - This seasons spawning has been very disappointing with around double the number of fingerlings but that will depend on mortality rates over the next couple of months. They are  appear to be reluctant to transfer them to sea cages, why, because they won't survive. IMO, there has been no improvement on last year.

2. Cash burn - A loss of around $6-7M this year. This has been reduced mainly by cost savings not improved revenue/profits. Reducing cost overheads in a profitable well run company is appealing but for CSS, however, it is a sign of desperation.

3. YTK - An abysmal failure, blaming seasonal growth variation is a smoke screen. They are no longer selling down excess inventory and that's why things don't look so good for YTK.

Good luck to those of you still holding!

Disc - not invested, opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## nizora (14 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


tge oracle said:



			Look's like me and KingKev are the last men standing on this thread.

This may well be the last you hear from me as I go into hibernation until next season, although, I don't believe there will be a next season.
		
Click to expand...


_ 
Tge,

I have always enjoyed  reading your comments, they are very  much appreciated.

It would be sad if you disappear from this forum !  You  shall  be  missed by many. 
Hope you still drop in occasionally,and share your valuable insight. 

This fish is not dead yet, only the hope  that is diminishing  at the moment. Let's hope the hope has new breath of life someday!


----------



## kingkev (14 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Tge,
> 
> I have always enjoyed  reading your comments, they are very  much appreciated.
> 
> ...




This story has not finished yet.  Intellectual property worth about 20 mill conservativleyspeaking

assets worth 30 mill

Still in R&D mode .........

Tuna stocks seriously threatened...........

Great Thematics

Time to accumulate and then hibernate for another year


----------



## Liar's Poker (15 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



kingkev said:


> This story has not finished yet.  Intellectual property worth about 20 mill conservativleyspeaking
> 
> assets worth 30 mill
> 
> ...




Fair point.

Will keep my eye on them, with the intention of buying if I see it worthwhile when they become destressed.

-Liar-


----------



## Sdajii (15 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

IP worth $20M? Who is going to pay $20 million to find out how to kill tuna?

No progress for several years. None. 100% mortality every year. Never more than a handful of tuna growing to juveniles, and they aren't living longer than years ago. The latest claim of success came when they put them in offshore cages. Well, they all died, but somehow it was a success because it hadn't been done before. I'd say it looks more like "Oh, that sucks, this doesn't work, the water is too cold" than "Yay! We put them in offshore cages!". If they gained anything at all it's the knowledge that this is going to be harder than expecting. That's not a positive thing. Maybe this year they can put some in fresh water and say it's a success because that had never been tried either  100% mortality, but hey, no one has ever tried farming them in fresh water! Yay.

Killer cash burn, little cash on hand, their income source (YTK) is full of disease and apparently they're considering abandoning it entirely (!!!). Looking at cash burn, capital will be required shortly, and it will be impossible to get.

Company in death throes.


----------



## Liar's Poker (16 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> IP worth $20M? Who is going to pay $20 million to find out how to kill tuna?
> 
> No progress for several years. None. 100% mortality every year. Never more than a handful of tuna growing to juveniles, and they aren't living longer than years ago. The latest claim of success came when they put them in offshore cages. Well, they all died, but somehow it was a success because it hadn't been done before. I'd say it looks more like "Oh, that sucks, this doesn't work, the water is too cold" than "Yay! We put them in offshore cages!". If they gained anything at all it's the knowledge that this is going to be harder than expecting. That's not a positive thing. Maybe this year they can put some in fresh water and say it's a success because that had never been tried either  100% mortality, but hey, no one has ever tried farming them in fresh water! Yay.
> 
> ...




Sdajii,

Completely agree. I'm only interested in the 'plant and equipment assets' - cages, nets, new rearing facility, buildings, land, etc and maybe some of the licences they have (tuna quota). I do not care for their IP or biological assets.

I'm working on a value of around 6 cents a share before fire sale for the above.

I'd consider buying in if it drops a couple of cents below that.

Opinion only, DYOR - check their annual report for a start.

-Liar-


----------



## Sdajii (16 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Liar's Poker said:


> Sdajii,
> 
> Completely agree. I'm only interested in the 'plant and equipment assets' - cages, nets, new rearing facility, buildings, land, etc and maybe some of the licences they have (tuna quota). I do not care for their IP or biological assets.
> 
> ...




Yeah, if you think you have a pretty good idea of what they're worth in liquidation you'd be pretty tempted. I don't know what they'd end up getting for their assets in a fire sale, but if it's 6c you might be able to pick up a bargain. Alternatively they could get taken over, but the new group would only do that with a fresh plan, and that would boost the price anyway. The crunch is coming either way.


----------



## tge oracle (17 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have put my hibernation plans on hold due to recent developments which deserve comment.

The admission that the YTK stock has developed intestinal disease is a major concern.
They are advising that only around 30% of stock is affected. I believe this will increase dramatically.
The CEO's admission that they may abandon YTK is a disaster for the company. The only income/revenue they derive , apart from investors funds, is from the YTK business.
Investors will be left with an SBT project that requires substantial capital input with no income.

As for the valuation of CSS, it is virtually worthless apart from 2nd hand nets, equipment breeding tanks etc. The actual Arno Bay facility is far in excess of what is needed to propagate YTK fingerlings and would be commercially unviable.
I wouldn't hazard a guess at CSS's valuation but without YTK it would be a fraction of my previous estimates and the current market value.

I am of the opinion that CSS will suffer the same fate as WKL and AAQ.
Watch closely for directors jumping ship now.....I predict Ellis-Flint will be the first !


Disc - Not invested. Opinion only, not based on any factual information.DYOR.


----------



## nizora (17 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


tge oracle said:



			I have put my hibernation plans on hold due to recent developments which deserve comment.

The admission that the YTK stock has developed intestinal disease is a major concern.
They are advising that only around 30% of stock is affected. I believe this will increase dramatically.
The CEO's admission that they may abandon YTK is a disaster for the company. The only income/revenue they derive , apart from investors funds, is from the YTK business.
Investors will be left with an SBT project that requires substantial capital input with no income.

As for the valuation of CSS, it is virtually worthless apart from 2nd hand nets, equipment breeding tanks etc. The actual Arno Bay facility is far in excess of what is needed to propagate YTK fingerlings and would be commercially unviable.
I wouldn't hazard a guess at CSS's valuation but without YTK it would be a fraction of my previous estimates and the current market value.

I am of the opinion that CSS will suffer the same fate as WKL and AAQ.
Watch closely for directors jumping ship now.....I predict Ellis-Flint will be the first !
		
Click to expand...


_


Welcome back tge!

Thank you again for your valuable info!

You obviously got more detailed information than  what the company  announced to the market .

It is frightening to contemplate that the company is heading  the direction  you mentioned. 

Ending like AAQ ? Would really be sad for many if that happens. 

I am watching this one closely!


----------



## Liar's Poker (17 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> _
> _
> 
> 
> ...




All that information tge has written about can be obtained from their announcements - you just have to be diligent Nizora.

-Liar-


----------



## tge oracle (17 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> _
> _
> 
> 
> ...






Hi Nizora,


No, I don't have any more information than is publicly available but I am shocked that they are contemplating shutting down the YTK business as it is their only source of potential income for the foreseeable future. They have been reporting their intention to grow this business to profitability and now, all of a sudden ,it could be shut down. Drastic unplanned business decisions such as this spell major trouble and desperation.
I only make the comparison to WKL and AAQ is because they went through similar troubles i.e. WKL ( Fish Mortalities) and AAQ ( Lack of funds to continue as a going concern ). I hope for the sake of all of you still invested CSS doesn't end up suffering the same fate but I am not confident. 
Normally, IMO, a clear sign the end is nigh is when directors start resigning, particularly, the Chairman.

Disc - As before -not invested, purely opinion only not factual information. DYOR


----------



## tge oracle (21 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

For the consideration of those of you still invested in CSS I thought I would provide an update to my valuation calculation. Pls note that this is purely my own assessment and has been calculated using publicly available information and a number of assumptions, due to limited information from CSS, but I don’t believe I am too far off the mark. 

I will provide a basic valuation as I did on post #947. 
The figures in brackets were my, and CSS’s , previous valuations.

1.	Property / Infrastructure - $ 5M  ( previous $ 15M / CSS $ 30M )
2.	Biological assets ( SBT/YTK stock ) - $ 5m ( Previous $ 10M /CSS $16.6M)
3.	Non current ( leases/licences ) - $ 2M ( previous $ 5M/CSS $ 15.3M  )
4.	Intangible assets ( research ) - $ 0 ( Previous $ 0 / CSS $ 15.3M)
5.	Cash on Hand - $ 6M ( Previous $ 7.3M / CSS $ 7.3 M )


A brief explanation of how I derived the above figures is explained below:

1. Property / Infrastructure – CSS’s Arno Bay facility can only be used for one purpose , SBT propagation and breeding. It is in the middle of nowhere ( check on google earth ). The facility has been specifically designed for holding broodstock and raising SBT fingerlings.  The property is of very low value in my view.
Some of the infrastructure could be sold 2nd hand.

2. Biological assets – I have applied a 16.7% mortality to YTK and adjusted the value of remaining stock to allow for poorer quality diseased fish.  Japanese customers are very reluctant to pay for poor quality, in fact, I am not convinced they will purchase these fish.

3. Non current – I have reduced the value of the leases as there are no SBT juveniles and YTK is dramatically reduced in scale. This could become $ 0 if they abandon  the YTK business.

4. Intangible – Worthless in my view. If it can’t achieve commercial scale it has no economic value.

5. Cash – I have added the $ 1.6M to the previous cash on hand and deducted the declining revenue ( post # 977 ) and allowed for the $ 3.4M shortfall required for SBT trials this season. The remaining $ 6M is being rapidly depleted , in my opinion, due to reduced revenue from YTK and high cost of maintaining the sbt project.

All of the above is calculated on reported YTK mortality of 16.7% . I actually believe this figure will be amended to a much higher quantity of mortalities which will, in turn, reduce the values above.


----------



## tge oracle (21 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I forgot to add my usual disclosure for the previous post:

Not invested, opinion only and my own assumptions. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (22 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Watch closely for directors jumping ship now.....I predict Ellis-Flint will be the first !




"The Company also announces that Mr John Ellice‐Flint has advised the Board of his decision to step down as Chairman and as a Director of Clean Seas Tuna, effective 31st May 2012."



I only wish I could predict next weeks lotto numbers with such certainty!


----------



## kingkev (22 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> "The Company also announces that Mr John Ellice‐Flint has advised the Board of his decision to step down as Chairman and as a Director of Clean Seas Tuna, effective 31st May 2012."
> 
> 
> 
> I only wish I could predict next weeks lotto numbers with such certainty!




Well you were right AGAIN.............

No reaction to todays ann........reaction occured last week.  It's all about hope now.
Reduced my holding by 50% because of sick YTK...........
Still hold a large parcel but.................


----------



## tge oracle (22 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Good luck Kev,


Another thing you should be aware of from today's announcement is that the juveniles are only 30-50mm. This suggests, to me , that the juveniles spawned in Dec are dead as the size/growth rate doesn't add up. 
By my calculation, 30-50mm juveniles are only 3-5 weeks old which suggests they were spawned mid to late January. If this is the case, there has definitely been no improvement on last years grow out trials.

Disc - Not invested. Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## Liar's Poker (23 February 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> "The Company also announces that Mr John Ellice‐Flint has advised the Board of his decision to step down as Chairman and as a Director of Clean Seas Tuna, effective 31st May 2012."
> 
> 
> 
> I only wish I could predict next weeks lotto numbers with such certainty!




Great call tge 

-Liar-


----------



## tge oracle (24 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well, yet another very disappointing spawning season for CSS. 

Yesterday’s announcement confirms my suspicions that there has been no improvement on last years spawning, despite CSS claiming the contrary.  

The facts speak for themselves, 160 @ 30gms.  They were very careful not to mention length, why, because these fingerlings are only about 50mm-60mm in length and investors can relate to this. Up to now they have always used juvenile length as their guidelines for growth. 
If this is the case, these fish were only spawned a 3-5 weeks ago which suggests that all of the fish spawned earlier are now dead. 
It would appear that they are having great difficulty moving beyond this 50-60mm juvenile stage.  It could be a number of reasons e.g. diet, tank size, disease, injury due to collision with tank walls etc.
The SBT project has come to a standstill from which it will not recover, in my view.

Another very important omission from the announcement was the status of the YTK business. Investors were informed in Feb that there was a 16% mortality of YTK in the sea pens and that they may abandon the YTK business all together and now, nothing , not a word. As this is material to the future of the business I would be asking the ASX to demand an update on the YTK operation ,if I were invested, as this is an unacceptable and glaring omission IMO.
This uncertainty is further compounded by the resignation of M.Sterhr as he was growout manager for the YTK operation. His removal suggests the outlook for YTK is not good.
Furthermore, his departure is further evidence of “rats deserting the sinking ship”. 
I acknowledge that he will stick around as a non-executive director and provide consultancy services to CSS but this has more to do with picking at the carcas of CSS , when in folds , as some of the assets will fit very nicely into the Sterhr Group business and at a bargain price. 
Consultants typically charge many thousands of dollars a day for their services. I would be watching very closely at the next financial report for additional charges and fees etc. 

For those of you who still believe the CSS story be prepared to lose everything as I don’t believe it will survive to next season. 




Disclosure – Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information, DYOR.


----------



## Sdajii (24 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

In my opinion, CSS came to the point of inevitable death around two years ago (and I wasn't shy about saying so at the time). Now it's really coming apart at the seams. It's a shame it's not as easy to predict company success  as decline! Good call on the resignations. The YTK must be in serious trouble, if they weren't we would have been told. With CSS you know that if something goes well you'll hear all about it, if it goes bad they'll spin the story into success, and if there is silence it is so bad they can't spin a positive story.

The silence on the YTK issue is not legal, and blatantly so. Sooner or later they'll have to talk, but in the mean time their silence surely just advertises their desperation. It is a strategy which can only help in the very short term and then hurt when they tell the story (unless they're being tricky and making everyone think it's disaster then surprising everyone with better than expected news so their mates can sell... seems unlikely and unlike them).

Amazing to see some people still talking CSS up. I can't tell if they're love struck or if it's management with aliases, but it's not sane or rational.

Amazing to see 11 extra 30g fish being called a success! A third of a kg of fish. Hooray! Seriously, one guy with a fishing rod can catch 11 fish in an afternoon


----------



## tge oracle (26 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

For those investors who would like a better understanding of the growth rates for BFT here is a link.
If you scroll down to figure 6 you will see the weight-length relationship of juvenile BFT.
The chart is hard to read in the very early stages but approx. 150m= 50gms and 200mm=100gms.

CSS are advising that their fish are 30gms so the fingerlings are about 80mm- 90mm by my calculation , not the 50-60mm reported in my earlier post.

I always try to keep my posts as accurate/honest as possible.


http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0021903


Disc - Not invested, opinion only.DYOR.


----------



## nizora (26 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


Sdajii said:



			In my opinion, CSS came to the point of inevitable death around two years ago (and I wasn't shy about saying so at the time). Now it's really coming apart at the seams. It's a shame it's not as easy to predict company success  as decline!  

Click to expand...


_
Ah, what a sad story ! Another AAQ in the making!!! Should be a massive blow for Hagen  Stehr ,who at one time claimed one day would make sharehoders a lot of money.  And undoubtedly a massive disappoiment for many CSS shareholders who have been holding their faith in him.


----------



## tge oracle (29 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am dumbfounded that there has been no update on the ASX. If I were invested I would be knocking down the doors of CSS and the ASX for an update on the following:

1. BFT Mortality Rate - They have 160 juveniles as of last report. They had 1500 in the previous report. It may well be that they have had more mortalities over the past few days...who knows! it is outrageous that the ASX allows them to report so irregularly. Oil / resource explorers have to report on at very regular intervals when drilling for oil/minerals as this is material to their business. The mortality rate of juvenile SBT is material to CSS's future, and yet, they only report when they choose allowing those close to the company to move first on any material changes.

2. YTK - I simply do not believe that the mortality of YTK stayed at 16% as reported in the previous announcement. It is inconceivable that , suddenly, they all stopped dying and recovered overnight.

3. Cash Burn - How much cash are they currently using to conduct operations.

4. Cash Balance - How much is left and how long do they expect this to last.

5. Frode Teigen - As a significant investor( > 5% ) his update to the market on the sale of his holdings was very late in being submitted to the ASX. I suspect he, and the institutions, are bailing out to un-informed retail investors who simply have no idea about the risk they are taking on.

As far as I am concerned CSS is trading on an un-informed basis at present which is a blatant disregard for the ASX rules and regulations. Having said that the ASX itself is equally to blame. 

When this company folds there will be ample legal ammunition for disaffected investors in my opinion.

Notwithstanding the above, the recent price plummet on large volume should prompt an ASX please explain!


Disc - Not invested, Opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Sdajii (29 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I entirely agree with a lot of that.

CSS has already been hit with a 'please explain' as to why they didn't report a *100%* mortality in that season's juvenile tuna. They simply responded by saying it wasn't price sensitive information! In this case I'd actually say it's fair enough that they don't report on tuna mortality as long as no more than a dozen or two had died and there hadn't been any particular thing which killed them and was going to be a continuing issue (disease, toxicity, an unknown issue).

No update on the YTK is beyond a joke at this stage. They should be getting their arses kicked to next week and back over that one. I very greatly doubt the situation is good. For years CSS has demonstrated how it deals with bad news - it stays quiet as long as possible and when it does talk it says as little as possible. If the situation was good they'd be shouting about it.

I very strongly suspect that they're being reluctant to put out any news because any update would have to include news about the YTK situation, which is not good, so they want to stay quiet.

Management jumping ship is a very, very bad sign at this time and further makes me think the YTK are in big trouble.

This has all the alarm bells and sirens and red warning lights flashing more vividly than I've seen in any company I've been watching.

As you say, investors would legally have a lot of reason to complain about things, but realistically, what are they going to do? Rely on the toothless regulators to say "Hey! You're naughty!" and CSS can respond with "Oh, we didn't do anything wrong and we're bankrupt anyway, sorry" and the regulators can say "Okay, fair enough"

I do feel sorry for those invested, but if you're still holding now you deserve what you get. Blind Freddy can see what's happening from here. I am finding the whole thing very interesting to watch.


----------



## tge oracle (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, at least we have our eyes wide open Sdajii. 
It would appear we are about the only posters left on this forum, not sure if our opinions are being noticed by many CSS investors.

I noted a rise in volume/price yesterday. ASX may have to look back at this when they fold, there are a lot of XT and NXXT transfers between open trades......very suspicious in my view!

Where are the ASX in all of this?.........hopefully Chi-X will provide better regulatory governance as they compete against the ASX.....goodness knows....investors desperately need a competitor to the ASX who can represent shareholder interests!


----------



## tge oracle (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Forgot to include the usual in previous post:


Disc - Not invested, opinion only not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Sdajii (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

That's a good point about investor protection, or lack thereof.

One of the reasons I find it interesting to watch an obvious train wreck of a company like this is to see how the regulators deal with the situation. When a company blatantly lies and illegally withholds information repeatedly over a period of years, you can see an extreme example of what we are supposed to be protected against. When nothing at all is done you see just how useless they are and how little protection we have.

In my first few months of investing/trading I was very naive and bought into companies, one in particular (STI), which made some huge claims which seemed unrealistic, but I foolishly put some weight on their claims because I figured it would be so incredibly illegal to say those things if they weren't true. Amusingly, I realised my mistake within a day or two, put in a desperate sell order, and a few hours later they put in another ridiculous announcement saying they expected to be able to cure swine flu, which caused a few minutes of frantic buying before a big crash! My order went through at a much higher price than I asked, and I made a big profit. I kept watching STI. The company ended up folding with at least one of the directors skipping the country and vanishing from the authorities 

I don't think CSS is acting *quite* that illegally, but it's another fascinating case to watch. Just like STI, I'm boggled by some people still willing to buy in and defend the management which lies and deceives them while the company is clearly crumbling into the ground.


----------



## tge oracle (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Too right Sdajii, I also wonder if this price spike relieves the pressure of a "please explain" from the ASX.....I certainly hope not!

I am sure they will do anything to avoid updating the market on the issues raised in my earlier post. I reckon they are working feverishly to find another "white knight" like Frode Teigen to prevent the inevitable......they've got no chance this time....I am amazed he jumped onboard last time!

Disc - Not invested, Opinion only not based of factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Maybe salmon is the way to go?

I have noticed the TGR shop in Melbourne doing amazing business.  Surely a good indicator.  TGR chart has made its first higher low in a long long time.


----------



## tge oracle (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Gringotts Bank said:


> Maybe salmon is the way to go?
> 
> I have noticed the TGR shop in Melbourne doing amazing business.  Surely a good indicator.  TGR chart has made its first higher low in a long long time.




Yes, I have been a long term holder of TGR. They are at the mercy of the high Australian dollar at present as they plan to export more of their product. They have a major presence in the domestic market but margins are being squeezed by woolies and coles.

As for CSS, salmon is a great product but I am not sure that CSS would be able to compete with the likes of TGR , Huon Salmon etc. who are very efficient producers and marketers.

CSS have been unable to grow their YTK business into a profitable entity, unlike Southern Star, so I doubt they would succeed with other products.

They needed success with SBT, I don't see any other options for them and a  takeover is totally out of the question. 
I am afraid it is all too late.......administration is the only possible scenario in my view.

Disc - Invested in TGR. Not invested in CSS. Opinion only not based on factual information.DYOR.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (30 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yeh the tinned Tassal stuff you buy at the supermarket has no taste or nutritional value.

But TGR _definitely _know how to run a shop/cafe.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see new ones popping up around major cities quite soon.  A hungry domestic market might offset those AU$ concerns?  Let the supermarket chains sell other brand's rubbishy tinned junk, I say.


----------



## nizora (31 March 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> _No update on the YTK is beyond a joke at this stage. They should be getting their arses kicked to next week and back over that one. I very greatly doubt the situation is good. For years CSS has demonstrated how it deals with bad news - it stays quiet as long as possible and when it does talk it says as little as possible. If the situation was good they'd be shouting about it.
> 
> I very strongly suspect that they're being reluctant to put out any news because any update would have to include news about the YTK situation, which is not good, so they want to stay quiet._
> lot of that.
> .




Undoubtedly they have to stay quiet as long as possible, what else could they do? As the  news they have currently is all  bad news !!! The coming report could be the one they have to report : Administration appointed???


----------



## Sdajii (2 April 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Undoubtedly they have to stay quiet as long as possible, what else could they do? As the  news they have currently is all  bad news !!! The coming report could be the one they have to report : Administration appointed???




Yep, very likely. If they put out an announcement now telling us what is going on it will likely throw the price down to very little and bring about a collapse sooner. No point going into administration sooner than they have to. They have a bit of money left and probably just want to keep paying staff (including themselves) for as long as possible.

We're now at the point where no update on the YTK problems is totally stupid and most likely the next announcement will be "Goodbye from CSS". If there's no announcement by first thing after the Easter break I'd just about bet money that the next announcement is either that they're in administration or it'll be something disastrous enough to kill them shortly after it's announced.


----------



## tge oracle (4 April 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have no doubt the they will go into administration Sdajii, but I don’t think it will be after Easter and this is mainly because Ellis-flint is not stepping down until May 31st. He is too smart ( read – cunning ) to get caught as Chairman of a company that has collapsed. If he were to vacate earlier than this date, then all bets are off, it’s going under imminently and I would bail out at any price…..better to get something rather than zip!
Either way, post May 31st is my guess for administration. The cash will probably run out by Q4 but I don't think they will make it to Q4.

My guess is they are screwing down on expenditure big time to allow a bit more breathing space before the inevitable. As eluded too earlier, I would imagine they are working feverishly to find a new investor like FT as even the most star struck faithful retail investors will steer clear of the next Cap Raising unless there is a credible investor onboard. I am sure they will try to keep bleeding funds from investors right to the very end, just like WKL and AAQ did.

I don’t understand why investors , with their hard earned at stake , are not bombarding CSS and the ASX for an update on YTK. I can only surmise that the ASX haven’t acted because it hasn’t been brought to their attention by investors……incredible!


Disc – Not invested, Opinion only and not based on factual information. DYOR.


----------



## nizora (18 April 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

18 April 2012
Outlook
Clean Seas expects FY2012 trading results to be consistent with previous forecasts, the
final findings of this Strategic Review may require the Company to consider writing down
the carrying value of specific Kingfish assets.
The Board confirms that it has sufficient cash reserves through to the end of the current
calendar year 2012.Importantly, the Strategic Review will allow the Board to adopt the optimal strategies for the future Tuna propagation and Kingfish grow out businesses. Accordingly, a further update will be provided to shareholders following the Company May 22nd Board meeting

Former Tassal CFO joins Clean Seas Board
Directors are pleased to announce the appointment of Mr Nick Burrows as an independent non executive Director of the Company effective immediately.


----------



## tge oracle (19 April 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It is unacceptable that they have taken this long to update the market on both SBT and YTK mortalities. The market has traded on an uninformed basis for the past month or so in my view.

As to the announcement, don't be fooled by the cash reserves lasting to year end. They are selling down all of their remaining YTK stock before it dies. This has a false impression of cash flow and financial reserves. The fact remains, once these fish have been sold they will have nothing left of any value to sell. Additionally, they will be drawing down on remaining cash reserves.

The strategic review is nothing more than a delaying tactic, I am convinced it will end in tears for investors. Arno Bay is the wrong location to propagate SBT and they don't possess the necessary management skills or quality controls to grow a profitable YTK business.
I believe they will delist and enter receivership after the review.

4c a share may not seem like much to long suffering holders but zero will feel a lot worse.


Disc - not invested, opinion only not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## nizora (19 April 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_"tge oracle;698100] I am convinced it will end in tears for investors "_


An interesting comparison : http://www.umamiseafood.com/news/umami-reports-second-quarter-results-fiscal-year-2012


----------



## tge oracle (1 May 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have to comment on the latest 4C as I note they sneaked it in after trade yesterday, a move typically made by a company in financial trouble. If you care to look back through their 4C releases in the past, they have always been made during ASX trading hours.

As to the 4C, it paints a damning picture, cash is running out fast. They are now trying to hold out hope by saying they are reviewing YTK to make it more profitable. They have had 7 long years to get YTK right and now expect investors to believe they can make it profitable, desperate measures to encourage investors to hang in there , in my view.
Interestingly, no mention of the SBT business......my guess is things are not going well their either. I wonder how many fingerlings are left.....if any!

Disc - not invested, opinion only , not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (25 May 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Today’s announcement comes as no surprise what so ever. Much of this should have been reported weeks ago. The sellers have had an opportunity to offload to uninformed investors in my view.

As to the report,  CSS is no longer a viable entity in an economic sense. The YTK inventory is being sold off and business written down. SBT has gone nowhere for the past couple of years and attempts to bring spawning forward will fail, in my view. Apart from the SBT broodstock suffering health issues , I don’t believe the fingerlings will survive in the SA climate. These fingerlings need the tropical warmth of Northern Waters to grow in to robust juvenile SBT.
CSS won’t admit that SA and Arno Bay is not suitable.

Their commentary on the value of CSS typical value ramping. They are expecting investors to believe that there is significant value in thin air, because this is what intangible and intellectual property is…..….just goodwill. It has no measurable physical value.
As they are unable to complete the life cycle of SBT it has no meaningful value in my view. In any case, this knowledge is held by the scientists / biologists etc. not CSS and they, perhaps, may be able to offer their services / knowledge to other aquaculture companies but it will be of no value to CSS investors.

Holding out to year end is just giving FT and Institutional investors time to sell out to retail investors.


Disc – Not invested. Opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (27 May 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

After further reflection on the recent announcement there is one burning question I have for CSS – If the fingerlings are succumbing to cold water temps then why not artificially heat the holding tank water ?
This should be relatively easy to accomplish as these tanks are not particularly large, no more than the average swimming pool.
By doing so, and completing the life cycle, it would add a lot more confidence to  investor’s and the market.
I actually believe that there may be some other reason, in addition to cold water temps, contributing to these mortalities. If this is the case it is a very worrying sign as CSS, up to now, they have never acknowledged or identified any other reason.

The way I see it at the moment they are going nowhere with the SBT project and trying to induce spawning is an act of desperation which may have serious implications for the health of the broodstock. They only spawned 2-3 months ago and are now being expected to spawn in another 4 months or so. 

Disc – Not invested. Opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (7 June 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

http://www.smh.com.au/business/insider-trading-charges-issued-in-clean-seas-case-20120607-1zxug.html



This comes as absolutely no surprise to me what so ever. If I were invested in CSS, and I am not, I would be requesting ASIC dig a lot deeper into the past trading activity in this company since 2007/8 after the first spawn. 
I would also request that they look in to the companies reporting timelines which, in my view, have been manifestly deficient in keeping investors up to date with information that is material to the business.

Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information.DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (11 July 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The appointment of BBY should be viewed as nothing more than calling in the administrators before the company officially collapses and closes it's doors.

I can't envisage any scenario where by a suitor may be interested in CSS' YTK or SBT businesses. YTK has run at a loss for 7 years and they can't close the lifecycle for SBT.
My guess is that the SBT part of the business may become a scientific project for the FRDC / CRC and remain there for many years until they can achieve some sort of commercial scale. I don't believe these bodies will pay much, if anything, for these intellectual assets.
The YTK business has been decimated by a disease, for which, they have no cure or knowledge of the cause. It is worthless in my view. 

Any residual value is CSS is in their remaining cash reserves, which are dwindling by the day, and some of their infrastructure assets which will probably be purchased by the Sterhr Group or other Fishing companies. 
The Arno Bay facility is a white elephant which is remote, costly to run and of little or no value. 


Disc = Not invested. Opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Sdajii (12 July 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yep, that sums it up pretty well. I'd probably be slightly less bleak, but only very slightly, and only about a few specifics, which doesn't change the bigger picture.

I'd be dropping this one like an ugly angry infectious spider. It was amazing to see the positive market response, although it was brief. It's difficult to work out some peoples' strategies. Blind Deady can see where this one is headed.

It's an interesting one to watch, all the same. Just don't touch.

DYOR, I'm not worth listening to, I will probably be telling you nefarious and harmful lies, etc.


----------



## nizora (15 August 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

15th Aug,2012

"The Board and Executive are in no doubt as to the serious challenges facing the Company and its future,
nor the patience and concern of our loyal investors.
In summary, and with the absence of further deterioration in Kingfish health, we are confident that we
will reposition the Company to better achieve the initial goal of commercially farming Southern Bluefin
Tuna from propagated fingerlings.   
We are cognisant of the fact that we cannot go on indefinitely to achieve this goal and that our rate of
progress must improve to warrant continued investment.   We are also aware that we must turn our
Kingfish business into one that provides an acceptable profit contribution or we must minimise the cash
flow demand on the business."


----------



## Crows (12 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

"Clean Seas Tuna confirmed that it is making significant progress in improving the operations of its Yellowtail Kingfish and SBT propagation divisions. The health of the kingfish is now improving. The company remains on target to achieve early tuna spawning with its tuna broodstock already showing encouraging courting behaviour. Cash reserves are as forecast and the company has managed to sell significant surplus assets in line with the company's planned sell-down program. A number of employees have been made redundant as part of the restructuring initiatives, with workforce levels trimmed to almost half the early 2012 level."

Latest news for CSS looks better than it did last time I looked. Over 1.3 million shares have been traded today. I wonder of this is the turning point for better things to come, or simply another step up followed by two steps back.. Any thoughts?


----------



## tge oracle (12 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Crows, I note you are new to the forum, I have been here pretty much since the beginning. I suggest you read back through the thread if you are considering investing in CSS as there is a wealth of information to help you make your decision.

Not withstanding the above, I will make commentary on the most recent announcement.

Firstly, it is extremely disappointing that the CSS story has reached this stage with people loosing their jobs and a potentially huge industry on the brink of collapse. 
I would like to be positive about the future and re-invest but this is how I see it 

My valuation of CSS is currently around $ 5-6M and this may be optimistic as CSS valuation is now totally reliant on the successful propagation of SBT and breeding/growout of YTK, neither of which is being achieved at present. The Arno bay facility has no real commercial value without success in either of the above, in which case, the business is valued on cash on hand and fire sale prices for what’s left.

     1. Property / Infrastructure - $ 2 M 
      2. Biological Assets ( SBT / YTK stock ) - $ 1 M     
      3. Non current assets ( leases/licences etc.) - $ 0.2 M             
      4. intangible assets ( research/goodwill etc ) - $ 0  
        5. Cash on hand - $ 3 M 

They are now “throwing the last dice” in the CSS story …. It will have to take a miracle of significant successful spawning and growout of juvenile SBT to save it from collapse, the risk is immense.
I can’t see a new investor jumping onboard, in fact, Frode Teigen is still selling out and he is a very experienced and knowledgeable aquaculture investor. He still has 58 M shares to go and I do believe he will try to exit before administration.
If it does miraculously survive, through success with SBT, it will lead to a massive Cap raising with a commensurate discount and dilution.

Disc – Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Crows (12 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Today's post was a mere quick observation made while I was on my break at work. I have read a lot of the discussion previously when I was looking into aquaculture stocks. After re-reading the announcement, it seems more vague than I first thought. They basically haven't lied, but they sure as heck haven't given any solid information to suggest that they're really improving, if at all. I mean you can make bad news sound good if you put the right spin on it, which is something CSS are good for (going on past announcements and the following results of those announcements).

Even if they were to be making major improvements, I'd say it is a little too late now. I don't even trust the news they put out now, I have to re-read it several times to see what it could really mean, which to me is something most people feel the same way about. So even with the announcement of good news, I am sure the investors would be too worried to put their money into such a company. I guess I'm just wish-full thinking that this company could make a turn around.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion and not based on any factual information.


----------



## nizora (18 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Interestingly I read this BUY recommendation yesterday :

Clean Seas Tuna (CSS) A hair’s breadth (or a fish scale’s breadth) away from being a true ‘penny’ stock, Clean Seas has been a rough ride for investors. But there’s hope yet for the South Australian tuna farmers.

After a decline of almost 80% in its share price this year, the company was looking as appetising as dead fish, which is precisely its problem. Clean Seas breeds and grows kingfish and the valuable Southern Bluefin tuna, attempting to meet the growing demand for seafood in a farmed sustainable way. However, its kingfish had been dying from disease, and the delicacy and difficulty of growing SBT to full size in captivity has eluded the company to date.

A corner may have been turned, though, after the company released an upbeat operational update last week outlining healthier kingfish and encouraging breeding behaviour from the tuna as the company prepares for another crack at raising them in sea pens over the summer.

Clean Seas shares doubled on the news, from a close of 1.6c last Tuesday to 2.3c on Thursday. CEO Craig Foster said the tuna broodstock is “already showing encouraging courting behaviour”, and that “cash reserves are as forecast and we have managed to sell significant surplus assets”. The company has trimmed staff numbers significantly in 2012, roughly halving the number of employees, and could boost its financial position through flagged interest from several companies to take on a ‘core investor’ role.

The newsletters generally see this as a much-needed collection of good news. Having long seen the potential in the lucrative Asian market for valuable SBT, the successful farming of this fish would be hugely positive for Clean Seas. While this goals seems to have been ‘almost there’ for several years, the latest updates have the newsletters once again willing to take a punt.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (18 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Clean Seas shares doubled on the news, from a close of 1.6c last Tuesday to 2.3c on Thursday.




When I went to school, going from 1.6 to 2.3 was not doubling.


----------



## tge oracle (19 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Which broker issued the buy recommendation Nizora. 
I would be interested to know if they closely affiliated with BBY or Lonsec both of which have had vested interests in the past through Capital Raising's and most recently with BBY trying to flog the company off or attract another foundation investor.
The previous history of broker reports for this company suggest they should be viewed with an appropriate level of scepticism.
The announcement was totally bereft of detail and, in my view, does not provide enough facts in order for brokers to make informed decisions.
There does seem to be a concerted effort to pump the price of CSS, in the short term at least , through recent media articles and now broker reports........sounds familiar.........reminds me of 2007/08!

Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## nizora (19 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Which broker issued the buy recommendation Nizora.




tge,  Unsure which broker it is from , but here is the link:

http://www.eurekareport.com.au/artic...lected-wisdom?


----------



## nizora (19 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This should work :

http://www.eurekareport.com.au/article/2012/9/17/share-market-reports/collected-wisdom


----------



## Sdajii (20 September 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I wouldn't touch CSS with a 20' pole and would much rather stick my money on the roulette wheel or lottery tickets, but I still watch fairly closely. The recent 'good news' announcement actually literally gave me a huge laugh. There was almost literally nothing at all specific in the whole announcement. "Plans are underway to improve the breeding process" can mean "Joe suggested to Fred that it might help if they changed some trivial detail". Even "The rate of mortalities in the kingfish has dropped" could be 100% true if they had all died because the mortality rate would have dropped to zero (and it wouldn't even be the first time they'd tried to present a 100% mortality as good news).

There was literally not a single thing in the whole announcement which actually confirmed anything positive. Given their history of lying and putting positive spin on negative news, an announcement like this should do nothing but sound the warning sirens.

What I find fascinating is that there is so much positive response. I read the announcement and thought "Do they really think people are that stupid?" and watching the market response I have to answer myself with "Yep, and they're dead right!"

I think I've learned more from watching CSS than most of the companies I've made money from. It's very interesting to see what the market does in these situations.


----------



## tge oracle (1 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have a few comments on yesterdays 4C.

Firstly, CSS are effectively in receivership mode. They are selling down remaining YTK stock along with it's supporting infrastructure and assets, thereby, reducing the value of the business as a going concern. Investors need to realise that along with devaluing the business this is making CSS less attractive to a potential suitor, should one exist.

Secondly, I note they have booked 10K for consultancy during the past 3 months. My guess this was paid to Marcus Stehr as eluded too in one of my earlier posts. The last thing investors need is an additional burden on the company for these very expensive services.
I would be complaining to CSS about this if i were invested, why do they need consultancy now when the business is about to collapse.....after all they supposedly have people with the knowledge and experience to turn this business around.

Finally, no mention of interested parties in the 4C only reference to BBY looking at options for restructure. I don't believe there was ever any serious interest in CSS from 3rd parties.


Disc - Not invested. Opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (13 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Fellow Fishers, it has been a while since i threw some burly into the pond 
what surprised me in the 4C is they still spent over a million on r&d and over 2 million on wages. (100 people on 80k average) and  1.9e of 454k . (other non current assets in r&d) i wonder what that was for?


----------



## tge oracle (14 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Basiica, I thought you along with most of the other posters had disappeared into cyber space. Anyway, I think we will all be gone soon as CSS is nearing the inevitable. It would appear that the SBT spawn hasn't occurred yet and it is now too late for the summer season growout in my view.

Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information.DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (14 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Basiica, I thought you along with most of the other posters had disappeared into cyber space. Anyway, I think we will all be gone soon as CSS is nearing the inevitable. It would appear that the SBT spawn hasn't occurred yet and it is now too late for the summer season growout in my view.
> 
> Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information.DYOR.





Amazing, just as I submitted my post I note they have announced spawning in late Oct. on the ASX so pls disregard the latter part of my previous post.


----------



## Joules MM1 (14 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

good release pdf today, not enough to force a technical break-out, not enough volume, might require a few days of o/seas digestion before h/highs come (yes, pun intended!)


----------



## Joules MM1 (15 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

technical break-out? sorta kinda.....even tho we need to finish green above 3's to call a b/o, what we really need to see is bid pressure minus the news no matter how good, i want to see pure demand kick in without the excuse, because once the pdf's and releases are done the energy needs to self combust

i'm long yesterday as per tweet


----------



## tge oracle (15 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The announcement and subsequent media barrage is all about enticing retail investors into CSS. Major aquaculture investors and institutions will steer well clear of CSS. 
BBY's comments in Fairfax media about CSS were blatant stock pumping - quote "CSS will get back to being a money-making business … [and] potentially a takeover target". Fairfax should have made BBY disclose their commercial relationship with CSS as they are currently trying to find a foundation investor/buyer for the business and will also be involved in any future cap. raising. 
The issue of legal action and compensation for the taurine deficiency is nothing more than providing false hope to investors. Even Foster admits that it is "their opinion only" , he made no mention of this potential legal action in an interview with Ross Greenwood tonight.
The only hope for CSS is if they are able to convince enough retail investors to back another cap raising. The risk is immense, that's why Frode Tiegen is selling out.
For those of you tempted to invest....be prepared to lose it all!

disc - not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information .DYOR.


----------



## Joules MM1 (26 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

a double break-out ? Again, sorta kinda.....technically we are at the real point of decision as todays move reaches 100% of the Sept 10th to 18th low to high.....such relationships are often signs of a larger interruption to trend, which has been down weekly basis......using a different technical approach we are also right at the strongest point of price structure where any move above todays high of 035's will bring conviction from players who are sitting and watching for either a confirmation with a double break-out or they may act when they see more buy-side volume, a genuine sense of conviction.....todays depth appears to favour the buy-side

chart courtesy Twiggs


----------



## tge oracle (27 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

At the end of the day it will all come down to the fundamental’s Joules.

Many of the large trades in CSS are NXXT trades. This means that the buyer and seller are the same person/trading account. 

Anyway, being a fundamental investor I can’t understand why even the most star struck retail investor would purchase more than $ 500 worth of shares ( ASX minimum holding balance ) as a Cap raising is a “lay down misere” which will be massively discounted  and ,probably, with a $ 15,000 entitlement.
At least if it goes belly up you have only dropped $ 500.
Having said that, you could save risking the $ 500 to wait post Cap raising and pick up a parcel on market, the shares will be significantly discounted and there would likely be more information on how things are going by then.
Either way, they are going to require significant funds to re-build the YTK business as many of the assets have, or, are being sold off. I am not convinced that they can turn this in to a profitable entity as they have had 7 long years to make YTK profitable and haven’t been able to do so.

Disc – Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Joules MM1 (27 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> At the end of the day it will all come down to the fundamental’s Joules.
> 
> Many of the large trades in CSS are NXXT trades. This means that the buyer and seller are the same person/trading account.
> 
> ...




the word "it" in a post always makes me scratch my head when the word "it" is at best an abstract summation that can mean a truck load of things, none of which, in this instance, are clear......

a cupla things about this: 







> the buyer and seller are the same person/trading account.



are you guessing that or do you have clear proof? even if that's true how do you know the trades arent for clients and what difference do you think it makes to traders who arent trading the way you trade?

price is doing what price is doing.....seems simple enough to me.....buy low sell high.....so, from my pov, there is no "it" comes down to unless you ask appropriate questions applicable to the method being used to trade.......

Disc - i am long the stock, imho, based on method of trade

thanks for the convo


----------



## Joules MM1 (27 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Joules MM1 said:


> Disc - i am long the stock, imho, based on method of trade
> 
> thanks for the convo




nadgers.....forgot to add this link

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25754&p=738382#post738382


----------



## pavilion103 (27 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This is what I posted in the hypothetical trade thread a few days ago. 

I'm in at 3.2c. My stop is moved up to 2.9c. 

I originally had a buy at 2.6c but unfortunately it gapped up and I cancelled it.


----------



## tge oracle (27 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Joules, 

When I say " it " it is in the context of CSS' fate ( i.e. their destiny ).

Check the ASX website for various cross trade definitions. 
If I were a betting man I would put my money on Frode Tiegen being on both sides of the trade. This is perfectly legal it just lets other investors know that a buyer may also be a seller, and vice versa. The ASX is trying to make the market as transparent as possible. In the case of CSS, I believe, there has been an inordinate amount of XT and NXXT trades over the past year or so. A previous post, of mine, eluded to this fact a year ago.

Bye the way, I am not trader by choice although I have inadvertently done so with CSS.  I would much rather buy and hold, preferably, indefinitely.




Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Joules MM1 (28 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

a break of the 035's level looks likely now and should bring a lift in buy-side volume.....
opcorn:


----------



## pavilion103 (28 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Reached 0.04 today only to fall off in the last minutes of trading. 

Pushed through the 0.035. 

I wonder how this will behave tomorrow.


----------



## pavilion103 (29 November 2012)

Interesting start to the day. Gap up and high of 4.2c. Now at 4.0c. Big volume


----------



## kid hustlr (29 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

GL guys, will be watching this one purely out of interest!


----------



## Joules MM1 (29 November 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

i still see reasons to think we're leaning north......mostly that today saw selling into the opening strength but the sales were by few accounts even tho they were sizeable relative to the buys.....so while the price is not being pushed upwards, we have a U shaped day that tends to fit the bullish side......


----------



## Joules MM1 (3 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

closed out today.....price still looks healthy.....


----------



## pavilion103 (3 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I'm still holding. I've moved my stop to break even at 0.032. I'm hoping the consolidation at around 0.040 on decreasing volume will lead to another push up. If not I've got my risk management in place. Interested to see.


----------



## pavilion103 (4 December 2012)

I'm out


----------



## Joules MM1 (13 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

discretionary bids still stepping across the great divide to buy CSS....it's not huge volume, not yet and no one is rushing into the trend......the bid side is def the pressure side....buyers are also hesitant because of that spread and sell volume is required or price stagnates so buys taken now maybe a good sign of people who are willing to wait for their capital to gain

there is no law that says a trend can't climb on thin volume, the only question is risk....

i think we would see much more active sell-side activity if older holders were trying to exit at the best-price they think they could get  (in their opinion)  before price descends again

a lot of belief for this stock by those holders....


----------



## Sdajii (14 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This is obviously a very tightly held stock. For years the company was hideously mismanaged, lied to shareholders, failed in just about every way imaginable, and crashed in share price. Anyone but the most die hard true believers or stubborn holders who just won't exit on a loss were shaken out years ago, so it's no surprise if there is a lack of sellers.

My guess is that the buyers are mostly long term holders who are taking the opportunity to put a fraction more money in to give themselves multiples of their holdings, even if they have to jump the buy/sell price gap. It's difficult to imagine too many new people coming along and thinking this is a good company to buy into.


----------



## nizora (21 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

*21/12/12 Not the end of the world  as predicted ,but surely the end of Southern Bluefin Tuna Propagation. 
What a painful disappointment for the many faithful investors !!!!!*

"Although this season’s trials saw early SBT spawnings commence in October 2012 as scheduled, the volume and quantity of fertilised eggs produced to date has been disappointing compared to prior seasons. Consequently, the Company does not expect to be able to transfer fingerlings to sea cages for experimental grow out early enough in the season, to achieve the Company’s second goal of SBT juvenile winter survival. 

To this background, and given the Company’s limited financial resources and need to preserve liquidity, the Company anticipates suspending its Tuna Propagation Program for at least the 2013/14 summer, and to direct its limited financial resources to its Yellowtail Kingfish operations. 

Whilst the Company continues to believe in the commercialisation potential of the successful closure of the SBT lifecycle, investment beyond the Company’s current financial resources will be required for this goal to be achieved. To this background, the directors believe it prudent to write down the significant investment in this project as at 31 December 2012 to an estimated net realisable value, in case the funding is not available in the future to re‐activate this program. The net impact on 1H 2013 results is likely to be in the order of $30 million, a non‐cash outgoing. "


----------



## Basilica (21 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Well said nizora


----------



## tge oracle (22 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yesterdays announcement confirms my valuation of 12th Sept ( post # 1028 ) of around $ 5-6M. I actually think it would be the lower end of this scale and mainly for cash on hand. Personally, I wouldn't invest at this price, approx 1c per share, as I don't believe enough retail investors will support a Capital Raising and there is a risk you will not get a refund if the company goes into administration. They are going to need substantial funds, even with a reduced YTK operation , to make CSS a viable entity.

The problems I have with CSS are many :

1. They have been unable to make YTK profitable after 7 long years.
2. Institutional, Foundation and 3rd Party investors are not interested in CSS. This risk profile of CSS is for distressed company Hedge Funds now and even they risk getting burned.
3. Despite their ISO accreditation I have concerns about their Quality control measures. There have been a number of instances were this has been brought into question.
4. I am not totally convinced they have solved the YTK health issues. They have re-located to nearer Port Lincoln with totally new stock and all seems OK for now but I would prefer to wait a while to see how these fish grow and develop before considering investing.
5. I have always held concerns about their corporate and ethical behaviour. I have long held concerns about the trading in this company and about the time lines for announcement through the ASX.

My guess is that they will try for a Cap Raising from retail investors in the new year. If it gets up ( highly unlikely ) I intend to sit and wait to see if they can build a profitable business out of YTK, like Tassal have with Salmon.

Disc - Not invested in CSS , invested in TGR. Opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (22 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It is a pity about all The job losses in the tuna project.
It will also be difficult to control IP with ex CSS people.
After 7 years and millions of dollars, did CSS achieve any better than Japan or Peru had achieved 7 years ago?.
I like your valuations TGE but it should be noted that assets diminish quickly with negative cash flows.


----------



## smart (29 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Could not of said it beter thank.


----------



## smart (29 December 2012)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

1.8 cents now what do we all think?  How low can this go this has to be the end now.


----------



## tge oracle (26 January 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I can't help thinking that the past year or so is all about letting Frode Tiegen get out with something rather than zip!
He has been able to sell out to starry eyed retail investors and, perhaps, distressed company hedge funds but with around 30M to go I think time will run out and, unfortunately for him, he will be still holding when the "pass the parcel" explodes.

I am surprised they have held out to 2013, I did predict administration by year end 2012.......I don't think there is long to go now though!

Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (4 February 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Going by the 4C lodged last week i do not expect the end will be anytime soon.
They still have cash in the bank.
They still have assets to sell.
The board of Directors are still getting paid.
The related party transactions are still being paid (228 k last 1/4)

Did any one notice that Cell Aqua CAQ entered Administration late last year?
Are Tassal and Clean Seas the last 2 Aquaculture stocks left?


----------



## tge oracle (6 February 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Basilica,

I wouldn't get too swayed by the  " creative accountancy ", all they are doing is shifting the remaining asset value into the cash reserves and, by doing so, they are giving the false impression of positive cash flow and growing cash reserves. IMO they should be valued on cash alone at present but, as you quite rightly point out, there are still sunstantial outgoings for 3rd party costs, directors fee's and employee wages so even this cash balance is tenuous in my view.

Yes, did note CAQ demise. TGR and CSS are the only ones left standing now.

Disc - Not invested in CSS, invested in TGR. Opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## smart (16 February 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes yes dont get swayed i agree.


----------



## Basilica (19 February 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smart said:


> Yes yes dont get swayed i agree.




I also agree, and have not been swayed.
The point i was making is, if and when, only the board of directors remain, they can still afford to pay themselves for a few years by selling off the assets.
There is no incentive to end it earlier.


----------



## smart (21 February 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I sure we all dont have to worrie any more i am sure the end is much closer for css than we think.


----------



## nizora (8 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


smart said:



			I sure we all dont have to worrie any more i am sure the end is much closer for css than we think.
		
Click to expand...


_
Looks like CSS is finding supports. Share price is up 18.75% today, and the volume is also encouraging.


----------



## smart (8 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes i see that but after 8 long years of losses do we really think today is a day to put all our cards on the table?


----------



## tge oracle (11 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have thoroughly examined the recent investor update and may have concede that my prediction of the demise of CSS may be premature.

If the commentary and text of the announcement are to be believed then it outlines realistic and achievable goals in my view.
I can’t ever recall CSS being so modest with their vision and plans for the future, perhaps, they have finally realized that it is better to under promise and over deliver than vice versa.

I have always held the view that they must achieve a viable and profitable YTK business before embarking on an attempt at SBT production. They are reporting strong demand and record prices for YTK. I am inclined to agree, YTK is very hard to get at my local fish shops and when it is, it is very expensive.

There appears to be strong investor support, albeit at a low valuation, so any attempt at a cap raising may get up, particularly, considering the expected low capital requirements over the next year or so.

Disc - Not invested, however, watching closely. Opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## smart (11 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

If you go by ccs past history they have not delivered any sort of profits and with the price of feed going up every year you can see why they are downgradeing. Lets hope after years of losses they will come thu!!


----------



## nizora (12 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


smart said:



			If you go by ccs past history they have not delivered any sort of profits
		
Click to expand...


_

You might want to check this out: http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20070831/pdf/3149ps50h64xzz.pdf


----------



## tge oracle (12 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> You might want to check this out: http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20070831/pdf/3149ps50h64xzz.pdf




Yes, tks Nizora, most of us long term followers of CSS will remember those day's. Sadly, this was not replicated in fllowing years. 
Anyway, it is imperative that they don't make the same mistakes again, of utmost importance is to instill investor confidence and deliver on their plan. If they can this, CSS will survive and grow into a profitible entity. Tassal have shown the potential for a well managed and marketed aquaculture company, YTK has the potential to deliver the same outcome for CSS. 
Additionally, they must distance themselves from opportunistic advisery groups who are motivated by a " quick buck". Their succesful future lies with the investors who, I now believe, may support them to re-build the company.

I hope they don't squander this opportunity.

disc - As before. invested in TGR.


----------



## nizora (12 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


tge oracle said:



			YTK has the potential to deliver the same outcome for CSS. 
.
		
Click to expand...


_
Supports are coming back. SP has gone up another 35% today! It is a long way from their high, but this  small confidence is a giant leap from a grave for CSS.


----------



## smart (14 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes i agree but it looks like the small confidence is on the way down again.


----------



## Basilica (14 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> You might want to check this out: http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20070831/pdf/3149ps50h64xzz.pdf





Hi nizora, its good to see you are still swimming around.
did you intend to link to a 2007 report?
I tend to agree with smart apart from the timing, i do not think it will be soon.


----------



## Sdajii (15 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

For a long time before it happened it was obvious that CSS' only hope was to drop the tuna. Why they didn't do it years earlier is beyond me. As soon as they did it I wondered if they may be able to avoid bankruptcy and become profitable. I'm not sure either way, but it should be an interesting and bumpy ride.

Good luck to all. I'll be watching from the side.


----------



## tge oracle (15 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, you and I have been asking that question for a number of years. I guess the answer lies in Hagen’s stubborn refusal to accept reality. Kinki University took 20 yrs to successfully complete the lifecycle of NBT and for many of those years it was on a small scientific scale, not the commercial scale CSS were hoping for. 
It is reasonable to assume that CSS would take many years and they should have structured the business accordingly. This now, finally, appears to be their objective by focusing on a profitable YTK business.

I am watching closely as there are a few fundamental dynamics that are becoming appealing to me:

1.	FT selling pressure most likely finished.
2.	YTK demand and prices on the rise.
3.	Realistic objective for future growth of YTK business.
4.	Capital requirements significantly reduced. If they do raise capital, it will most likely be a modest sum. 
5.	YTK health issues appear to be resolved.
6.	The sale of YTK fingerlings to 3rd parties. This has significant potential in my view.

I would prefer to see some progress with their plan before investing again. But will have no hesitation in doing so if they can deliver on their promises.


Disc – As before.


----------



## nizora (19 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Seen this before, jump-started the SP price, and  this quickly follows :

Clean*Seas*Tuna*Ltd*(ACN*094*380*435)*(the*Company)*(ASX*code:*CSS)*hereby*requests*a*
trading*halt*in*its*ordinary*shares,*effective*immediately*on*19*March 2013.
In*accordance*with*ASX*Listing*Rule*17.1,*the*Company*advises*that:*
•  _the*Company*expects*to*make*an*announcement*in*relation*to*a*proposed*capital*
raising;_*
•  the*Company*wishes*the*trading*halt*to*remain*in*place*until*the*earlier*of*such*time*
as*it*makes*an*announcement*to*the*market*in*relation*to*the*capital*raising*and*the*
commencement*of*trading*on*21*March*2013;


----------



## tge oracle (19 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, not unexpected Nizora.

I will consider investing after this Cap Raising but there are a few essential requirements for me to do so:

1. The raising must be commensurate with their growth plans as outlined in the recent investor update i.e. I would expect that to be a modest sum, possibly around $ 3-4 Mill.
2. They must detail how the money will be used to achieve profitability.
3. The Directors must participate, unlike last time. Their involvemnt is sign of confidence that they will deliver on their promises. They must have some " skin in the game "!

I will await the announcement with interest.

Disc - Not invested. Will consider doing so, dependent on Cap Raising details. Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## pixel (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

3 for 5 renounceable rights issue to buy at 1.2c.
Record day will be April 3rd.

Will be interesting to see how the Market reacts.
If we disregard the trades since March 6th as "artificial intensification", the price could drop to 1.5c or lower. But then again, the Market could see it as a positive and support the rescue.


----------



## Basilica (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> 3 for 5 renounceable rights issue to buy at 1.2c.
> Record day will be April 3rd.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how the Market reacts.
> If we disregard the trades since March 6th as "artificial intensification", the price could drop to 1.5c or lower. But then again, the Market could see it as a positive and support the rescue.




The market was down a third the bounced back to down a quarter a little while ago.
My prediction is about 1.2c share price when the 3:5 buyers try to sell.

The tuna broad stock would be a significant cost to maintain.
Will they now change their name to Clean Seas Kings.


----------



## pixel (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> The market was down a third the bounced back to down a quarter a little while ago.
> My prediction is about 1.2c share price when the 3:5 buyers try to sell.
> 
> The tuna broad stock would be a significant cost to maintain.
> Will they now change their name to Clean Seas Kings.




Give the second "S" some meaning. Sharks? Sinkers? Subs maybe?

Seriously though: Trading of those rights will reveal what the market thinks of the prospects.
I've taken a punt at 1.8c, but may trade it if the price is right.


----------



## smart (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Give the second "S" some meaning. Sharks? Sinkers? Subs maybe?
> 
> Seriously though: Trading of those rights will reveal what the market thinks of the prospects.
> I've taken a punt at 1.8c, but may trade it if the price is right.




Very good prediction can ccs buy feed from australian feed suppliers or are they feeding there fish chinese feed i wonder!!! Could this  be a major risk like there share price today?


----------



## Basilica (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Give the second "S" some meaning. Sharks? Sinkers? Subs maybe?
> 
> Seriously though: Trading of those rights will reveal what the market thinks of the prospects.
> I've taken a punt at 1.8c, but may trade it if the price is right.




Good point pixel 
I like Sub because the Kings are a sub plan.
So Clean Sub Kings
Lets give the first "C" some meaning too, Club?


----------



## Basilica (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smart said:


> Very good prediction can ccs buy feed from australian feed suppliers or are they feeding there fish chinese feed i wonder!!! Could this  be a major risk like there share price today?




Buying feed should not be a problem as there are multiple suppliers and CSS has paid all of its bills. There are also Several custom feed extruders, and CSS is likely have its own feed "recipes".


----------



## tge oracle (21 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Today's announcement still has me adopting a very cautious view on CSS. There is no mention of any participation by the Sterhrs or Directors in this rights issue which has me concerned. If the investment was compelling they would be exercising their rights. It is very hard to get an accurate assessment of CSS and Management/Director purchasing is one thing I look for in these circumstances. Another concern is the underwriting of only half of the raising, Patersons are obviously not very optimistic either!

Disc - Not invested.Opinion only.DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Having read the Prospectus over the weekend it does appear the directors are making a tacit attempt to participate in the rights issue. I can’t help thinking this is as a result of the poor take up of the last Cap Raising when only Hagen participated.
Hagen will only take up 7% of his rights whilst MS and PSR will participate with the princely sum of $ 2.5 K each.  
As for the Chairman, CEO and NJB , all of whom own no CSS shares, they have agreed to very generously sub underwrite $ 10K, $ 50K and $ 10K respectively.  
It speaks volumes that they will not purchase any shares, on market, in order to participate but will have the opportunity to buy at 1.2c if the offer is not fully subscribed.
Not surprisingly, the directors are recommending investors take up their entitlements. 

I won’t be purchasing in order to participate and will stay on the sidelines for the foreseeable future to see how things progress.

Disc – Not invested, opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Hagen will only take up 7% of his rights




I am quite green on the renouncable rights topic.
If Hagan has 96m shares he will have 57m renouncable rights at 3:5.
If he takes up 7% then 53m of his rights will hit the market on day 1
Have i understood correctly?


----------



## tge oracle (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I am quite green on the renouncable rights topic.
> If Hagan has 96m shares he will have 57m renouncable rights at 3:5.
> If he takes up 7% then 53m of his rights will hit the market on day 1
> Have i understood correctly?




Not necessarily Basilica. 
He does have the option of trading his excess renounceable rights during the rights trading period, however, I don't believe he will as this would " spook the market " but more importantly, it would be a massive vote of no confidence if he did so. I think he will let his excess rights flow through to the keeper i.e the underwriter.
Of more concern to me is that he has not excerised his full entitlement. If they represent good value and the growth potential for CSS is compelling, he would have done so. This has me very cautious on CSS.

Disc - Not invested. Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Not necessarily Basilica.
> He does have the option of trading his excess renounceable rights during the rights trading period, however, I don't believe he will as this would " spook the market " but more importantly, it would be a massive vote of no confidence if he did so. I think he will let his excess rights flow through to the keeper i.e the underwriter.
> Of more concern to me is that he has not excerised his full entitlement. If they represent good value and the growth potential for CSS is compelling, he would have done so. This has me very cautious on CSS.
> 
> Disc - Not invested. Opinion only. DYOR.




Thanks that helps clear it up.
Why would anyone not sell the rights they will not use?
even if a right sells at 0.1c it is still worth 50k to him.


----------



## tge oracle (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Thanks that helps clear it up.
> Why would anyone not sell the rights they will not use?
> even if a right sells at 0.1c it is still worth 50k to him.




The simple answer is that it will flood the market. I don't think there will be enough buyers.

i can't recall ever seeing a publicly listed company where both the CEO and Chairman don't hold shares. There may be a few " penny dreadfuls " but it does give an insight on their opinion of CSS.


disc - Not invested. Opinion only.DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> The simple answer is that it will flood the market. I don't think there will be enough buyers.
> 
> i can't recall ever seeing a publicly listed company where both the CEO and Chairman don't hold shares. There may be a few " penny dreadfuls " but it does give an insight on their opinion of CSS.
> 
> ...




A 3:5 issue is a 60% increase in shares by my calculations, it will be hard not to flood market.
I don't mind the CEO and Chairman not owning shares, CSS did need some more independent Directors.


----------



## Sdajii (25 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This is massive dilution and the market will certainly be flooded. I have trouble seeing the price not drop below 1.2c in the near future and am surprised to see the price holding so far above 1.2c at the moment!

So many warning sirens and red lights. As said, if things really had finally turned the corner, the guys at the top would be buying with enthusiasm, not just doing a token amount to try (but fail) to keep up appearances. It would take a lot to convince me to trust the situation, and not only do they fail to convince me, they demonstrate that they don't even believe it themselves. It seems to me that CSS hasn't changed. Same old story of overpromise, underdeliver and fleece the naive to keep themselves in a job.

DYOR, but I'll be keeping my money far away.


----------



## Basilica (26 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I noticed in yesterdays release that the 3:5 offer is only open to shareholders with a Aust or New Zealand address, all others are ineligible.
I wonder if Frode Teigen is pissed as they have a Norway address and almost 5% of the shares in CSS.
I can not see the rights trading on the ASX and thought it would be listed today? Can someone post the price if you can see it. Thanks.
Wow offer is 1.2c and sell is 1.7c for full shares,  no trades


----------



## nizora (26 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I can not see the rights trading on the ASX and thought it would be listed today? Can someone post the price if you can see it. Thanks.
> Wow offer is 1.2c and sell is 1.7c for full shares,  no trades




CSSR  currently 1 buyer for 500,000 units bid price 0.001; 1 seller 96000 offer 0.01


----------



## Sdajii (26 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I noticed in yesterdays release that the 3:5 offer is only open to shareholders with a Aust or New Zealand address, all others are ineligible.
> I wonder if Frode Teigen is pissed as they have a Norway address and almost 5% of the shares in CSS.
> I can not see the rights trading on the ASX and thought it would be listed today? Can someone post the price if you can see it. Thanks.
> Wow offer is 1.2c and sell is 1.7c for full shares,  no trades




I'm not sure Teigen would be all that interested in participating anyway.


----------



## Basilica (27 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> CSSR  currently 1 buyer for 500,000 units bid price 0.001; 1 seller 96000 offer 0.01




Thanks nizora, i found it eventually with your help "cssr"



Sdajii said:


> I'm not sure Teigen would be all that interested in participating anyway.



I agree but they would be happy to sell their RIGHTS to the highest bidder. As a just offset to the dilution.


----------



## Sdajii (28 March 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> I agree but they would be happy to sell their RIGHTS to the highest bidder. As a just offset to the dilution.




Good point.


----------



## nizora (19 April 2013)

*Re: CSS - ENCOURAGING  NEWS ?*

"Strong Yellowtail Kingfish Performance 
Clean Seas is pleased to update shareholders on the Company’s strong ongoing Yellowtail 
Kingfish performance. The new season fingerlings introduced in November 2012 continue to 
perform above expectations, and now exceed 1.0kg after 5 months of their 15‐18 month 
growth cycle.    We have updated the graph included in our prospectus to include the recent 
growth performance.
The fish performance is amongst the best we have ever achieved, and we are excited with  T
the quality of the yellowtail fish, including their heath and general appearance."


_http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130419/pdf/42fbzcp6h72fxq.pdf_


----------



## Sdajii (19 April 2013)

*Re: CSS - ENCOURAGING  NEWS ?*



nizora said:


> The fish performance is amongst the best we have ever achieved,




I found that statement peculiar when it was right next to a figure showing that other than last year it was the worst performance for a few years, and only trivially different from the several years before that. It's good that they have returned almost to normal/about normal, but that wasn't news so I'm surprised by the market's reaction today.


----------



## tge oracle (20 April 2013)

*Re: CSS - ENCOURAGING  NEWS ?*



Sdajii said:


> I found that statement peculiar when it was right next to a figure showing that other than last year it was the worst performance for a few years, and only trivially different from the several years before that. It's good that they have returned almost to normal/about normal, but that wasn't news so I'm surprised by the market's reaction today.




Yes, that's very true Sdajii but I think this announcement has been timed to encourage more retail investors to participate in the rights issue. I suspect, too date, there has been a very poor uptake and they need to do something to increase participation. I bet the CEO and Chairman are hoping they won't have to pick up their shortfall rights!

Disc - as before


----------



## Sdajii (21 April 2013)

*Re: CSS - ENCOURAGING  NEWS ?*



tge oracle said:


> Yes, that's very true Sdajii but I think this announcement has been timed to encourage more retail investors to participate in the rights issue. I suspect, too date, there has been a very poor uptake and they need to do something to increase participation. I bet the CEO and Chairman are hoping they won't have to pick up their shortfall rights!
> 
> Disc - as before




Naturally. The only surprise is how readily the market is gobbling it up.


----------



## nizora (29 April 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_"The Company received applications to subscribe for 250,471,153 Shares from eligible 
shareholders and investors under the Rights Issue to raise approximately 
$3,005,653.85.  This represents approximately 83.3% of all Shares offered under the 
Rights Issue. "_


http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130429/pdf/42fjk64zmk9szr.pdf


----------



## Sdajii (1 May 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have to say, that amazed me! I didn't think they'd get much more than half that. I suppose with the share price holding where it is, the temptation to buy and sell for a quick profit is there. I'd probably have done the same thing.


----------



## tge oracle (1 May 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Now that the cap raising is out of the way the latest 4c reveals the true state of affairs.
They are burning through cash supporting the SBT project. Although it has been put on hold the main cost of the SBT project has been the husbandry, feed and upkeep of the SBT broodstock which is still ongoing.
This will be a significant drain on cash reserves in my view.
I would be interested to know who was paid $ 36K in consultancy fee's over the past 3 months and would be asking CSS if I were invested.

Disc - Not invested, opinion only DYOR.


----------



## smart (6 May 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> Now that the cap raising is out of the way the latest 4c reveals the true state of affairs.
> They are burning through cash supporting the SBT project. Although it has been put on hold the main cost of the SBT project has been the husbandry, feed and upkeep of the SBT broodstock which is still ongoing.
> This will be a significant drain on cash reserves in my view.
> I would be interested to know who was paid $ 36K in consultancy fee's over the past 3 months and would be asking CSS if I were invested.
> ...




Have you seen the latest update? Improved hatchery would you like to give us more info please cleanseas these guys are clutching at straws for sure.


----------



## tge oracle (6 May 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smart said:


> Have you seen the latest update? Improved hatchery would you like to give us more info please cleanseas these guys are clutching at straws for sure.




As is always the case with CSS, Smart, it is what they don't say that is most relevant. The YTK update, although welcome, is over a very short time frame....the fish won't be harvested for another 12-18mths.... a lot can happen between now and then. 
If I were invested, I would be asking what the cost of maintaining the SBT project in caretaker mode is ( refer previous post ). Additionally, I would be asking why they need to pay a consultant  $12,000 per month when they supposedly have an experienced management to perform this duty.
I will keep watching from the sidelines.


Disc - Not invested. Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (10 May 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smart said:


> Have you seen the latest update? Improved hatchery would you like to give us more info please cleanseas these guys are clutching at straws for sure.




The hatchery probably is improving but i don't think the hatchery is a weak link for YTK as they can produce all the fingerlings they need now in the vacated tuna tanks. 
The market loves words like "Improvement".



tge oracle said:


> As is always the case with CSS, Smart, it is what they don't say that is most relevant. The YTK update, although welcome, is over a very short time frame....the fish won't be harvested for another 12-18mths.... a lot can happen between now and then.
> If I were invested, I would be asking what the cost of maintaining the SBT project in caretaker mode is ( refer previous post ). Additionally, I would be asking why they need to pay a consultant  $12,000 per month when they supposedly have an experienced management to perform this duty.
> I will keep watching from the sidelines.
> Disc - Not invested. Opinion only. DYOR.




I would like to know the cost of the SBT too but its mixed in with other amounts in the accounts.
the 12K a month may be external veterinary costs.
The market hates words like "Vet Bills"
it was hinted at in recent CSS announcement.


----------



## nizora (16 May 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

"ANTICIPATED FY2013 RESULTS 

The Directors of Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (ASX “CSS”) are pleased to provide shareholders with updated 
guidance on the Company’s expected FY2013 results based on recent operational performance. 

Key performance measures are ahead of the Company’s targets that aim at profitable production by 
2015.  Overall performance is consistent with the Company’s strategy to re‐focus and re‐build a profitable 
business based on sustainable Kingfish production.   

Results Guidance 

Strong Kingfish performance year to date has continued during April 2013 with strong growth rates and 
low mortality.  The positive operational results were coupled with a 12% increase in farmgate pricing, 
which is anticipated to return an improved result for the six months to 30 June 2013. 

Assuming the anticipated growth rates continue up to the more dormant winter period, the result from 
operations for the six months to 30 June 2013 is expected to be a loss in the range of $1 million to $3 
million. This result will be in line with our strategy and compares with an operational loss of $8.2 million 
for the corresponding half year period to 30 June 2012. 

The Board anticipates the underlying operational loss for the financial year ending 30 June 2013 to be in 
the range of $4 million to $6 million. This compares with an underlying operational loss of $15.3 million 
for the same period to 30 June 2012, and reflects around 60% improvement year on year. 

The operational performances noted above are before restructuring related asset impairment charges of 
$29.7 million for the current financial year and $15.5 million the previous year.  The asset impairment 
charges were isolated to the first half of the current financial year.  There were no asset writedowns 
taken in the second half year period to 30 June 2013 and the Directors do not anticipate any material 
writedowns will be required in FY2014.  "


----------



## nizora (17 July 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

*FY2014 Kingfish Operations*

Given the strong Kingfish performance, the Board has confirmed the next step in the Company’s 
growth strategy which includes the planned 167% increase in production from 225,000 
fingerlings in YC2013 to 600,000 fingerlings in YC2014.
The increase in fingerling production commenced in June and is a key step towards our interim 
target of 1,100 to 1,500 tonnes per annum in FY2015, at which point the Company expects to be 
profitable. Clean Seas’ five year production target continues to be 3,000 tonnes per annum.
Other significant changes for the FY2014 Kingfish operations include:
● Fingerlings will be transferred to sea cages at a higher average weight, which should result in 
more robust juveniles leading to a further reduction in early mortality rates and a shorter atsea grow out cycle;
● New protocols trialled in FY2013 that significantly reduced injuries to fingerlings will be 
applied throughout the hatchery and are expected to materially increase hatchery
productivity;
● Consolidation of all at-sea grow out operations at Port Lincoln, with attendant efficiency 
improvements from a one site operation; and
● Further benefits from the improved dietary regime should result as we progressively sell 
down of YC2012 dietary impacted fish and from the introduction of YC2014 fingerlings.
The Company will continue R&D trials to assess the viability of onshore production of juvenile 
Kingfish utilising the extensive onshore recirculation facilities at Arno Bay. Whereas the at-sea 
production cycle is 18-30 months with an average of 24 months, a shorter onshore production 
cycle of 12 months is being assessed and may well be achievable. 
In connection with these trials, the Company this year has made three successful shipments of one 
gram fingerlings to Europe, where they have been purchased and are being grown out in an 
onshore recirculation system. Clean Seas is the only producer of Hiaramasa Kingfish fingerlings 
globally with the ability to produce fingerlings reliably at any time of the year. This technology 
has the potential to enhance productivity and profitability in the future.
SBT Propagation Program Update
As advised to the market on 21 December 2012, Clean Seas suspended its Tuna Propagation 
Program, at least for the FY2013/14 summer. The Southern Bluefin Tuna (SBT) broodstock held 
in onshore facilities and in sea cages at Arno Bay remain in good health. Further, the Company 
has recently secured funding from Seafood CRC and Fisheries Research Development Corporation
to assist with the holding costs associated with maintaining this valuable broodstock.
Summary
The Company’s primary focus and commercial objective for FY2014 remains the increased
production of Yellowtail Kingfish towards levels that will underpin Clean Seas’ future profitability. 
The survival and growth rates continue to improve with this season’s Yellowtail Kingfish. The 
results have met or exceeded all of the Company’s internal targets, underpinning the Board’s 
confidence in the Company’s growth plans


----------



## pixel (17 July 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thanks for the update, nizora
The weekly chart looks very promising.





as does the daily - good enough for to dip a toe back in.
Pity I didn't follow up on my earlier signals - at the time, the low volume kept me out.




DYOR - after all, it's still a speccie.


----------



## nizora (4 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

4 SEPT 2013

Overview :
On behalf of the Board and Management, we are pleased to present the eighth Annual Report of 
Clean Seas Tuna Limited (Clean Seas).
Twelve months ago we reported on a challenging year for Clean Seas the response to which has seen 
the recruitment of experienced aquaculture leadership and the adoption of clear, focused strategies.
We are now pleased to report encouraging progress in the past financial year underlining the merit 
of our strategies. We have been pleased by the significantly positive shareholder and market 
response in support of our business direction. 
We have kept shareholders informed of our progress, particularly the strong biological growth in our 
Yellowtail Kingfish marine production, which has recorded its best performance for many years, if 
not ever. 
The recent progress of the Company has increased our certainty that the fundamentals are present 
in the company to build a significant farming and fresh fish sales business based on Yellowtail 
Kingfish production for Australian and international markets.
Despite encouraging positive progress, there were still challenges for the Board and shareholders as 
we made hard decisions to defer the Tuna propagation research, revalue the assets of the company 
and refocus the business as a premium producer of Yellowtail Kingfish for world markets. 
Strategic change
The original vision of producing Tuna juveniles has proven to be slower and more difficult than 
anticipated. The Yellowtail Kingfish business was introduced to prepare the company for the 
production of Tuna juveniles, and it has achieved an excellent market for high quality Yellowtail 
Kingfish in the seafood industry – both domestically and globally. 
Importantly, Clean Seas has positioned this product at the top end of desirable fish in sashimi 
restaurants and quality seafood restaurants with strong demand worldwide, particularly in Australia, 
Europe and Asia. Prices and demand have strengthened as the product is recognised for its quality 
and reliability.
The company has now resolved an imbalance in the Yellowtail Kingfish feed composition which 
impacted negatively on fish health, mortality and growth rates. The consequent supplementation of 
our fish feed with the small taurine protein from mid-2012 has spectacularly turned around the 
health and performance of the Yellowtail Kingfish. This return to good health and performance has 
highlighted the potential of this species and supports our strategic change to focus on Yellowtail 
Kingfish in the medium term.


----------



## pixel (4 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*




Nice rally. Nice profit. But 3.3 looks like solid resistance for now. Support at 2.8?
MACD must break through the Bearish Divergence; then I'm back in.


----------



## pixel (5 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Turned my attention Sea-ward just in time, it seems  (Thanks again, nizora  )
I picked them up in the Open and have added since.




If the current zone (3.9-4c) becomes the new holding support, I see Fibonacci targets at 5.5 and 6.4c.


----------



## nizora (24 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Progress ‐ FY 2012/13
 Clean Seas' strategy to focus on Yellowtail Kingfish and improvements in fish husbandry is
delivering outstanding results
 Kingfish survival, health and growth rates are the best in many years, if not ever
 There has been no return of any feed or disease issues in the Autumn, Winter or Spring of 2013
 We have begun transferring 600,000 new season fingerlings to sea (200,000 in 2012)
 The first batch of 200,000 is one month earlier and twice the weight at transfer to sea
 Nursery upgrade to produce larger fingerlings is underway to further improve quality and size of
Fingerlings in 2014
 Current season fingerlings going to sea will be ready for harvest in February 2015
 Financial performance of Clean Seas is on track to deliver profitability in FY2015

Strategy on track to deliver growth
6
 Clean Seas’ strategy is to drive profitability by expanding its successful Yellowtail
Kingfish production
– Production to be increased from500 tonnes p.a.to 3,000 tonnes per annum
over 5 years
– Clean Seas expects to be profitable fromFY2015
– 2013 Yellowtail Kingfish health and growth is strong, and production growth is
on track
 Major restructure almost complete
– Significant costs eliminated and surplus as sets realised
– Feed related fish health issues resolved with Taurine supplements
 The Yellowtail Kingfish market is strong with positive price trends
– Clean Seas’ Yellowtail Kingfish is internationally recognised as a premium
sashimi and table fish
– Clean Seas is the only reliable producer of Kingfish fingerlings globally
 Existing infrastructure supports growth in Yellowtail Kingfish production
 Tuna program is on hold with brood stock and IP retained to be leveraged when
Clean Seas regains sufficient financial strength

Existing Infrastructure Supports Growth
 Clean Seas has significant infrastructure capacity from prior years capex investment
 Existing infrastructure supports planned growth in Yellowtail Kingfish production
– Excellent on land hatchery facilities at our Arno Bay site in the Spencer Gulf
– Hatchery has expansion capacity, and with potential for further productivity improvements
– Sea water lease areas sufficient for production of up to 6,000 tonnes p.a.
 All grow out fish are now secured in tensioned nets minimising any losses to seal predation.


----------



## pixel (26 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Looking good on paper, but so far, 4.5c seems to be a powerful resistance.




I'm off for now, but shall watch for the next support level.


----------



## Shaker (26 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi Pixel

Nice commentary so far. Hope it continues upward for you

Shaker


----------



## pixel (27 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Shaker said:


> Hi Pixel
> 
> Nice commentary so far. Hope it continues upward for you
> 
> Shaker




Thanks, Shaker;

well, it did  But sadly, without me. I wasn't at home this morning when the breakout started. And by the time I got back from the Doctor's, it was all over.


----------



## nizora (30 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> View attachment 54551




Hi Pixel,

Your chart  is interesting, unfortunately I have no " magic knowledge"  to unlock the message.
Could you please elaborate  a wee bit more when you are posting a new one next time. I am following this stock with keen interest. I believe the company has learnt a hard lesson. If they are sticking to what they do best, good news will just keep coming.


----------



## pixel (30 September 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Hi Pixel,
> 
> Your chart  is interesting, unfortunately I have no " magic knowledge"  to unlock the message.
> Could you please elaborate  a wee bit more when you are posting a new one next time. I am following this stock with keen interest. I believe the company has learnt a hard lesson. If they are sticking to what they do best, good news will just keep coming.




Hi nizora
no magic required. The chart plots each day's price range and traded volume. A green "candle" tells us that trading started at the bottom of the green rectangle, closed at the top of the rectangle; intra-day price dips and rises are shown by thin lines below and above the rectangle, which is called the "body".
(Red candles start trading at the top of the body, then close at the bottom, with red "wicks" acting just as the green ones do.)

I have written some additional indicators that visually enhance my charts. In essence, you only need to check the green (buy) and red (sell) arrows to see whether the direction is up or down.

At the bottom, I plot the "speed" at which the price is traveling: The higher the red line rises, the greater the upward speed and consequently also the momentum. If the speed drops off and falls below the blue signal line - or, Heaven forbid, below zero - I get set to sell a Long position; the yellow arrow is the final death knell.

Lastly, in the chart below, I have also added some auxiliary levels that subdivide the trading range according to the main "Fibonacci" ratios, which follow the classic "Golden Rule". Apart from the "odd" ones containing 61.8, 32.6 etc, I watch sequences like 0-50-100-200 because quite often, a pullback from the top of an initial rally to the mid-point (50%) will hit a target of twice the original range, i.e. 50-100-50 will break back up and hit 200. In the chart below, 200 was hit on the nose and, more of the same, price retraced then back to half of that (i.e. 100%) before racing up again beyond the 200% level, which makes me hopeful that the next target could be 400% or 7.8c. 




That's about "it" in a nutshell.


----------



## nizora (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Hi nizora
> no magic required. The chart plots each day's price range and traded volume. A green "candle" tells us that trading started at the bottom of the green rectangle, closed at the top of the rectangle; intra-day price dips and rises are shown by thin lines below and above the rectangle, which is called the "body".
> (Red candles start trading at the top of the body, then close at the bottom, with red "wicks" acting just as the green ones do.)
> 
> ...





Pixel,

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. Also the regular posting of the chart. I shall follow this closely.
The 7.8 c target is so very close, currently the SP is 7.2 already. Would there be another cap raising soon?


----------



## pixel (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Pixel,
> 
> Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. Also the regular posting of the chart. I shall follow this closely.
> The 7.8 c target is so very close, currently the SP is 7.2 already. Would there be another cap raising soon?




You're welcome, nizora 

Updating the chart, I'm afraid my guesstimate was 0.1c off and we may be seeing the High at 7.7c 




Trading by 1-minute ticks, I'm off.


----------



## pixel (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

"Notice Received", shares in pre-Open

Wouldn't bet against a "Please Explain" ASX speeding ticket 

Edit: It's a Trading Halt


----------



## pixel (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> "Notice Received", shares in pre-Open
> 
> Wouldn't bet against a "Please Explain" ASX speeding ticket
> 
> Edit: It's a Trading Halt




... and a capital raising coming up ...


----------



## skc (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> ... and a capital raising coming up ...




Didn't they just raise money in March? What's the excuse this time.. a high share price?


----------



## pixel (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



skc said:


> Didn't they just raise money in March? What's the excuse this time.. a high share price?




LOL - as in "strong buying interest proves our shareholders want to take a greater stake, so we issue more shares to accommodate those who missed out last time"


----------



## nizora (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


pixel said:



			LOL - as in "strong buying interest proves our shareholders want to take a greater stake, so we issue more shares to accommodate those who missed out last time" 

Click to expand...


_
Seen this old trick  so often: jump-started the SP , and quickly follow by capital raising,The fish must be very hungry this time . cry:


----------



## nizora (1 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


skc said:



			Didn't they just raise money in March? What's the excuse this time.. a high share price?
		
Click to expand...


_

Probably  this Cap raising  is solely for  sophisticated investors only


----------



## tge oracle (2 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> _
> _
> 
> Probably  this Cap raising  is solely for  sophisticated investors only






I doubt that Nizora, I think it will be pitched at retail investors. This is a highly opportunistic raising at a time when the price and volume surged on the back of what, I consider, to be only mildly positive news on YTK growth rates. 
Long term investors should be very cautious on CSS as, IMO, it is a value trap.
Day traders have been able to make a motza........but buyers beware.
I think the market has forgotten the main event here i.e. the Albatross around CSS's neck that is the SBT project. This is still drawing significant funds from CSS, hence the jump at a Cap Raising.
I would also question the share price movement and announcement timelines as they warrant investigation by ASIC and the ASX in my view.

Disc - Not invested, Opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.


----------



## pixel (2 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS are holding their AGM today.
In case anyone is interested: the Presentation slides have just been released: 
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01449684


----------



## nizora (2 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


tge oracle said:



			I doubt that Nizora, I think it will be pitched at retail investors. This is a highly opportunistic raising at a time when the price and volume surged on the back of what, I consider, to be only mildly positive news on YTK growth rates. 
Long term investors should be very cautious on CSS as, IMO, it is a value trap.
Day traders have been able to make a motza........but buyers beware.
I think the market has forgotten the main event here i.e. the Albatross around CSS's neck that is the SBT project. This is still drawing significant funds from CSS, hence the jump at a Cap Raising.
I would also question the share price movement and announcement timelines as they warrant investigation by ASIC and the ASX in my view.

Disc - Not invested, Opinion only, not based on any factual information. DYOR.
		
Click to expand...


_
You are right tge, the retail investors are targeted again this time. The " trick" ,Jump start the SP,before the jump at cap raising , is always the same. Is this an acceptable practice ? I doubt ASIC and the ASX  would do anything about this. I smelt rat before the trading halt.This company is always hungry for money.



_TradingHalt
Clean Seas announced a trading halt yesterday for the purpose of putting in place a capital
raising.
The purpose of the capital raising is to complete the funding of our core Kingfish business to a
production level of 1,500 tonnes per annum (tpa).
We have retained Patersons Securities in relation to the proposed capital raising, and we expect
to be able to announce details within the next two days.
Our intention is that the capital raising will include a share purchase plan to allow all
shareholders to participate, and in particular to allow smaller shareholders to increase their
holdings to a marketable parcel.
Your Directors are very conscious that ourshare holders contributed funds to the Company
earlier this year and we are very grateful for your continued support.
*It is your Board’s aim that this is the last capital raising required* for the Company to achieve
profitable trading at its interim target production level of 1,500 tpa. Our intention is to use
cashflows and debt as the primary means of funding the progressive increase in our Kingfish
production to 3,000 tpa."_


----------



## nizora (4 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The Directors of Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (ASX “CSS”) are pleased to announce the opportunity for existing
shareholders of the Company to participate in an underwritten Share Purchase Plan (SPP or Offer) to
raise up to $6 million to fund increased production of Yellowtail Kingfish.
Key Features of the SPP:
• Shares will be offered at a 20% discount to the volume weighted average price (VWAP) for the 5
trading days prior to and including the Closing Date ofthe Offer,subject to a maximum price of
3.2 cents per Share.
*• Patersons  Securities is acting as Lead Manager to the Offer and has underwritten the SPP to an
amount of $6.0 million.*
• There are no transaction costs to participants.
*The maximum Offer price under the SPP of 3.2 cents* represents a 13.1% discount to the 60 day VWAP of
3.68 cents and a 24.8% discount to the 30 day VWAP of 4.26 cents. The pricing structure for the SPP has
been determined having regard both to recent volatility in the Company’s share price and longer term
share price levels, and offers attractive pricing for shareholders to invest additional equity in the
Company.
*The SPP is subject to shareholder approval at a General Meeting expected to be held on 25 November*
2013. The directors reserve the right to accept additional applications subject to shareholder demand.
The Offer is being made at a time when the Company is achieving outstanding results from its Yellowtail
Kingfish strategy and is recording the best Kingfish survival, health and growth rates in many years

The funds raised under the SPP will be used to support the growth of our core Kingfish business to a
production level of 1,500 tonnes per annum (tpa). Clean Seas is on track to achieve this production
objective and be profitable by 2015 with the aim of increasing production to 3,000 tpa over 5 years


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

More capital raising ? 
They were doing that before I sold out years ago.


----------



## nizora (4 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


MrBurns said:



			More capital raising ? 
They were doing that before I sold out years ago.
		
Click to expand...


_
"The Directors of Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (ASX “CSS”) are pleased to announce the opportunity for existing
shareholders of the Company to participate in an underwritten Share Purchase Plan (SPP or Offer) to
raise up to *$6 million *

*• Patersons Securities is acting as Lead Manager to the Offer and has underwritten the SPP to an
amount of $6.0 million. "*

This time is fully underwritten. 
Looks like  Patersons Securities is happy to take the lots @ 3.2cents.


----------



## chief71 (4 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

WHat to make of the $15k share limit per shareholder rather than a pro-rata of current shareholding? was there a lack of support expressed by the largest shareholders that forced this decision? also why was announcement of the details timed to avoid scrutiny at AGM? unfortunately i'm a shareholder &didn't bail in time.  Chief71


----------



## smart (4 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

When will it stop ahh maybe when they have a billion dollars
 to spend it wont be mine


----------



## tge oracle (8 October 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



smart said:


> When will it stop ahh maybe when they have a billion dollars
> to spend it wont be mine




The short answer is that it won't stop anytime soon Smart. 

They have been very ambiguous in their explanation for the recent Capital Raisings and if you read the accompanying documentation and the Annual Report you you will note that the last Cap Raising was to be used to fund YTK production to 1500tpa. Now they state that this new Cap Raising will fund YTK production to 1500tpa by 2015 with the aim to increase production to 3,000tpa over 5 years.....that's makes it 2020. What is important is that that don't specifically state that these funds will be used to increase to 3,000tpa...what does this mean? well, two things, firstly ,they will definitely suck more funds from investors through Cap Raisings to fund this expansion and secondly, where are these funds going as they have sucked around $ 9.6m from investors over the past 6 months just to achieve 1500tpa.......the answer is the SBT project. 
This may be mothballed, but make no mistake, it requires significant expense just to keep it in this state. The Arno Bay facility is a White Elephant that needs to be completely abandoned and shut down for CSS to become truly profitable for investors. They may make a profit from YTK in the future, but I wouldn't hold out for any dividends as I believe any profits will be used to restart the SBT......just like 2005 all over again!
This reminds me of the property trust days from Babcock and Allco etc, where investors were paying for their own dividends whilst the value of the entity ( shares ) eroded to nothing.
CSS is a plaything for savvy fleet footed day traders. Long term investors, I am sad to say, will be disappointed again in my view.....a bit like ground hog day!

Disc - Not invested, opinion only and not based on any factual information. DYOR


----------



## Basilica (8 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> This may be mothballed, but make no mistake, it requires significant expense just to keep it in this state. The Arno Bay facility is a White Elephant that needs to be completely abandoned and shut down for CSS to become truly profitable for investors.




Hi Fishers.

Even White Elephants can be sold, there is no need to cull it oracle 
If the facility and Tuna brood stock and IP were to be advertised and promoted in a timely way it would return a good price.
If in the alternative it is sold by private treaty to a related party at the last desperate moment the price would not be so good.

I will start the bidding off

$1000 if they throw in some elephant and fish food


----------



## Joules MM1 (13 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

the price got mined into the news release and now the stock is weighed by the market being held to size with the vwap nonsense

twiggs money flow is aggressively negative daily and weekly ....look for that to swing up


----------



## chief71 (16 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Css is building momentum after a month of sideways movement. Buyers out number sellers 3:1 now & subject to any adverse news with current stock i expect share price to reach 5c by year end with price rising faster once 4.2c is reached.


----------



## Joules MM1 (16 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



chief71 said:


> ... Buyers out number sellers 3:1 ....




hi, chief......

i maybe viewing the transactions and depth incorrectly......have you got current data that backs up that 3:1 call?


----------



## chief71 (16 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

comsec have buyers for 20m shares vs sellers for 7m.

go back about 3 weeks & it was 10 m  buyers vs 9m sellers. i look particularly at +-10% of current price. This curently is 8.7m buyers vs 2.7m sellers. 

Just saying price came back to 4.1c from 3.8c a week or so ago & seems to be gaining momentum - i think if the stock can close at 4.2c it will then move quickly to 5c.


----------



## Joules MM1 (16 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



chief71 said:


> comsec have buyers for 20m shares vs sellers for 7m.
> 
> go back about 3 weeks & it was 10 m  buyers vs 9m sellers. i look particularly at +-10% of current price. This curently is 8.7m buyers vs 2.7m sellers.
> 
> Just saying price came back to 4.1c from 3.8c a week or so ago & seems to be gaining momentum - i think if the stock can close at 4.2c it will then move quickly to 5c.




right, i get where youre coming from with that data.....imho and ime, the first price levels are the key prices, they give you sentiment of the players who await price .......this is vastly different to the active price which is discretionary and you have to watch the trades as they move thru the day or have indicia that can break that down for you at the eod ......given the recent trade activity and the money flows (see Incredible Charts et al) you might see the current phase as being weighted by the mechanism of vwap pricing play for the raise.....i think this period needs to be finished before the css price can ascend.....the vwap capraise mechanism is forcing trade size, meaning, that ball game dominates the price zone simply because it dominates the volume.....if the range is down to 3.2 then that's the vwap balance and range.....

on the upside that 6 mill gimme handed back to css is a genuine boost when put with the proceeds of the cap raise.....so, price is treading water until all the cap stuff is gone....but i think the company needs to keep plans for the tuna side as it's where the real money maker is.....it's what will re-ignite overseas bids, genuine industry bids not hopeful smsf money.....

on balance the company looks good as long as we can see the burn rate for current proceeds.....


----------



## Joules MM1 (19 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

very robust volume


----------



## pixel (19 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Joules MM1 said:


> very robust volume




So I noticed as well - and got a few just in time.
Puzzled though: Why the delay??? The trading update had been issued on the 11th. What has changed?


----------



## Joules MM1 (19 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> So I noticed as well - and got a few just in time.
> Puzzled though: Why the delay??? The trading update had been issued on the 11th. What has changed?
> 
> View attachment 55406




part repeat ramp and part genuine buyers with smoking pockets....Twiggs money flow saw an upturn yesterday....subtle pressure then.....

got a few jit, too


----------



## Joules MM1 (19 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Joules MM1 said:


> part repeat ramp and part genuine buyers with smoking pockets....Twiggs money flow saw an upturn yesterday....subtle pressure then.....
> 
> got a few jit, too




not quite a pull-over-driver day...40mil+ vol should have the dt's humming too


----------



## chief71 (19 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Got the 4.2c yesterday but wasn't expecting the climb through 5c to happen so quick. Subject to any disaster with the fish stock we won't see < 4.0c again & I think the new minimum base price is  now 4.5c. 

ratio of buyers to sellers is now 12:1.


----------



## pixel (19 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

High gap closed on the dot. I hadn't expected that one this quickly either.
Now: Will it continue upwards? Or can we expect some retracement?


----------



## Joules MM1 (20 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> High gap closed on the dot. I hadn't expected that one this quickly either.
> Now: Will it continue upwards? Or can we expect some retracement?




fairly constructive close....maybe we'll rotate up here a bit  ......still looks like push will be higher


----------



## pixel (20 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Joules MM1 said:


> fairly constructive close....maybe we'll rotate up here a bit  ......still looks like push will be higher




Early m/depth suggests another 1-pip gap-up.
and that in spite of the speeding ticket http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01467427

Profit takers unite:


----------



## Joules MM1 (20 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Early m/depth suggests another 1-pip gap-up.
> and that in spite of the speeding ticket http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01467427
> 
> Profit takers unite:




they'll do that....holding while i have sells on the xjo


----------



## Basilica (20 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yesterdays volume and 1/3 price movement is very impressive for no apparent reason.
Well picked Pixel.

Could it have something to do with the share purchase plan that closes soon?
At today's price it is more likely to be fully subscribe than it was a few days ago.


----------



## Joules MM1 (25 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

seems a reasonable enough trendy kinda day...the rushing jockeys didnt push too hard and cream off the top....reasonable bid activity...


----------



## nizora (28 November 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

"Strong Support for Clean Seas SPP 
Share Purchase Plan and Private Placement Raises $9.7 Million 

Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: CSS) is pleased to advise that its Share Purchase Plan (“SPP”), 
which closed on Tuesday 26 November 2013, has been supported strongly by shareholders. 
The SPP was heavily oversubscribed, with Company receiving applications for $14.658 
million. 

In accordance with the terms of the SPP Booklet dispatched on 23 October 2013, the 
Directors have resolved to accept the maximum amount that can be accepted under the SPP. 
Under the terms of the SPP, the Directors reserved the right to accept up to the limit 
available under an SPP of 30% of Clean Seas’ shares on issue, being 240,527,119 shares 
raising $7,696,868 at the SPP issue price. 

As a result of the oversubscription, applications will be scaled back on a pro-rata basis by 
approximately 47.5%. Excess application monies will be returned to shareholders early 
December 2013. The issue of shares to all Directors participating in the offer will be scaled 
back on the same basis."


----------



## nizora (3 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


chief71 said:



			comsec have buyers for 20m shares vs sellers for 7m.

go back about 3 weeks & it was 10 m  buyers vs 9m sellers. i look particularly at +-10% of current price. This curently is 8.7m buyers vs 2.7m sellers.
		
Click to expand...


_

Sadly currently 116 sellers for 14,586,736 units and 77 buyers for 12,426,333 units.
The price just kept dropping from the manipulative pre SPP high 7.7 cents to currently 3.8 cents.


----------



## nizora (4 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


nizora said:






Sadly currently 116 sellers for 14,586,736 units and 77 buyers for 12,426,333 units.
The price just kept dropping from the manipulative pre SPP high 7.7 cents to currently 3.8 cents.

Click to expand...


_

With new SPP shares  allocated today, the S/P tumbled to 0.033. Would it hit the SPP price of $0.032? 
Currently : 81 buyers for 22,360,746 units, 142 sellers for 24,862,761 units.


----------



## nizora (5 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


nizora said:






With new SPP shares  allocated today, the S/P tumbled to 0.033. Would it hit the SPP price of $0.032? 
Currently : 81 buyers for 22,360,746 units, 142 sellers for 24,862,761 units.
		
Click to expand...


_

Second day after the SPP new shares allocation : currently  *bid $0.036, offer $ 0.037*; *149 sellers for 32,272,799 units *, only *104 buyers for 22,399,614 units*


----------



## nizora (12 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Dodger said:


> _As mentioned in my post a few months ago, I visited the Eyre Peninsula last week, and CSS CEO was kind enough to give me and my wife 10 minutes of his time.
> 
> My take on their plan is that CSS has 660,000 kingfish fingerlings in sea pens now. Expected mortality is 15%, thus they expect to harvest 560,000 fish in 2015 at an average weight of 2 - 4 kg, say 3 kg.  Thus a little over 1500 tonnes of fish.
> 
> ...



_

Again many thanks for this valuable information. I hope you do not mind me posting your reply here._


----------



## pixel (12 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



> Divide that future value by the number of shares on issue, and you can calculate the future value of CSS shares in 1 - 2 years.



At a Billion shares, call it 15cps by 2015. That would bring us back to price levels seen 2 years ago.
Quite achievable IMHO.





Whilst I'm not on just yet, I have it on my watchlist with an alert set at 4c, based on the Daily chart.
But at the moment, I don't see much volume, so I'll wait for the Market to wake up.


----------



## nizora (13 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This article was published many years ago. Thought some might be interested in reading it again.


_http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arc...life-hagen-stehr/story-e6frg9hf-1225834008771_


_HAGEN Stehr, founder of aquaculture business Clean Seas Tuna, is sometimes called a fishing magnate, an entrepreneur, an inventor, but he describes himself as just a fisherman. 	
This just doesn't square up with the fact that Time magazine named his invention as the second best of the year in 2009, behind NASA's Ares 1 rocket.

The Hagen Stehr story out of Port Lincoln in South Australia is the stuff that legends are made of: a tale of passion, self-belief and intimate knowledge of his industry.

"Some people call me an entrepreneur, that's just nonsense; I'm just a fisherman," he insists.

"I've been in this business for 49 years and I like to think that I know a little bit.

"I'm from one of the major tuna families out of Port Lincoln and I think we knew our business certainly a lot more than scientists do and many people said to us it can't be done, but I've got a stubborn German background."

Stehr's adventures included a stint in the French Foreign Legion as well as marine experience with the German merchant navy, before he jumped ship in Port Lincoln and married Anna, now his wife of 49 years. And that's how he wound up in tuna fishing.

Port Lincoln is the home of the southern bluefin tuna and has spawned many legendary figures.

There was Dean Lukin, the fishing trawler gold medallist weightlifter from the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Then there was Tony Santic, who owned Makybe Diva, the horse that won three Melbourne Cups on the trot. It had never been done before.

A scientific first

What Stehr and his Clean Seas Tuna are doing, in propagating the bluefin tuna in a land-based tank, has also never been done before.

And it's working for the company, which listed in late 2005 and now has 160 employees, a turnover of about $30 million. Although the company made a loss of $12.56 million for 2009, Stehr says this enabled the timely clearance of inventory and helped Clean Seas' entry into new markets.

In a world where quotas are threatening the tuna fishing business, this home-grown invention could effectively put tuna on tap.

"We've kept tuna over the last 11 years now in our sea pen off Port Lincoln and the science community around the world thought it was an impossibility," he explains.

"They said you could not keep tuna longer than maybe six months or eight months, but we proved you could.

"We've had a number of firsts in our organisation over the last few years: we proved that you can keep tuna for 10 years and we fought against white pointers, shark attacks, seals, disease problems, bad weather conditions and we kept all the fish through."

The aquaculture business complements the wild fishing business but represents a passionate entrepreneurial response to the threats of quotas and low stocks of a product whose potential is only now being realised.

Holding the line

So how did a fisherman -- or let's ignore Stehr's self-deprecation and call him an entrepreneur -- confound the scientists?

"We just kept on going and I was in the water every day and it took a lot of money because to protect tuna is very, very hard," he says.

"We had shark attacks and tuna disappearing, but we learnt fish husbandry practices over a period of time and we became better and better at it.

"I got a team of people together, working for two years, who sort of helped us out."

When it comes to entrepreneurs, they often see opportunity where others can see only threats, and this is a part of the Stehr story.

"Port Lincoln was virtually broke in the early 1990s and right now it's fairly hard going, but between the 60s and the 90s we caught that much tuna that thestocks were becoming run down," he explains.

"That's when I came up with ideas from my frequent travels overseas and I said, `Hey, maybe tuna farming, maybe tuna propagation is the way to go'."

The first successful tuna farm in the world was established at Stehr's facility in Port Lincoln.

The leading fishing families of the town came together and, with their shared cash, worked out what could be done.

"I thought it would never work: tuna farming, catching fish from 12kg to 15kg to 20kg and then growing them for six to eight, and then selling them to the Japanese or whoever," he recalls.

Stehr's ultimate goal was to close the life cycle of tuna in captivity, speeding up the growth process.

It has culminated in a land-based facility that has the technology to replicate the conditions of the tuna schools as they travel around the coastline of South Australia and then up the West Australian coast.

"We found [the farming] worked well and the next step was to close the life cycle of tuna."

Closing the cycle

The invention process involved trial and error and Stehr says they nearly went broke with some big losses -- as well as wins -- along the way. However, like many entrepreneurs hell-bent on success, he looked for partners with expertise to give him a competitive advantage.

"We developed our technology with our Japanese partners, the Kinki University, which has been doing it now for 35 years but [hadn't done it] offshore," he says.

There was also local government help. "The first 4 1/2 years we got $4.5m from government bodies," Stehr points out.

"We worked closely together with the CSI Fisheries Research and Development Corporation in Canberra, [which tried] to help us in regards to science and everything else like that.

"We've got together a group of the best scientists in the world and the government helps us a little bit."

Assistance also came from South Australia's Department of Trade and Economic Development.

Stehr says the Americans tried to breed tuna but failed, while the Japanese wouldn't try at all. The Europeans spent about E70m and couldn't do it.

"I went from one factory to another factory from around the world and we brought a team of people together who built a complex in Port Lincoln right on the water," he explains.

"Then [we] thought, how are we going to get big tuna from this ocean into our onshore facility?"

Eventually he called on some of his ex-Vietnam chopper pilot buddies to help. One of them is so good in his chopper that one of his jobs in the US is to place heads on statues.

"I said, `Listen guys, we've got to bring live creatures on shore and we have to lift the tuna out from two, three miles out at sea and bring them ashore'," he recalls.

"Of course, we've done something to the tuna, it's intellectual property which I can't tell you; but we lifted them out like an army-style operation."

The brilliance of Stehr's technology was that it confounded the scientists. They said you would have to keep them for at least three years to make them sufficiently relaxed to spawn, but it was achieved in three months.

The fish are taken out to sea, about 320km south of Port Lincoln, and then are taken west outside the continental shelf into streams that run west and east. They round the coast at the bottom end of Australia and then turn the fish north and go slowly from latitude to latitude north past Fremantle, Geraldton and Broome, up to the spawning area.

After that they bring the fish back down the West Australian coast. They then turn the fish east and bring them all the way back to Port Lincoln. The biggest shock, however, is the fish never leave the tank the whole time. They replicate the journey of the fish onshore, mimicking different temperatures and seas all in their facility.

The scientific puzzle was finally solved last year and this is the first year of the breeding program. Clean Seas plans to produce 25,000 fish this year and 10,000 tonnes by 2015.

Like most founders, Stehr managed everything until the company was listed and is now a director.

He is still very hands-on with the technology development.

Never say die

The company started 10 years ago and the operation went public after funding requirements became crucial. Stehr says it is a necessary evil but he gets frustrated by the paperwork and corporate governance that goes with being a public company.

Asked what made it all happen, he points to his disdain for the word "can't".

"A lot of people called me an arrogant bastard but I always thought that it was a full-blown conclusion and that it was only a matter of time," he says. "The rest of the world said it can't be done, but we just kept on going.

"You've got to have deep pockets, you've got to be little bit sick in the head, strong in the back and you have to have an absolute belief in yourself and really, you can't say can't; the word can't should be eradicated [from] the English dictionary."_


----------



## chief71 (13 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Again many thanks for this valuable information. I hope you do not mind me posting your reply here.




I Don't think your calcs are correct - NP more like $3 per kg


----------



## piggybank (13 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*


----------



## nizora (14 December 2013)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


chief71 said:



			I Don't think your calcs are correct - NP more like $3 per kg
		
Click to expand...


_

_Their NP is just under $15 per kg on current Sydney sushimi fish market prices of around $40 per kg.

You are right ! The above information does not add up. 

How could the NP be $15 when the  "Improved net farm gate prices  -now $14.00 per kg compared to FY2013 average of $12.67 per kg"_


----------



## pixel (2 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Whilst I'm not on just yet, I have it on my watchlist with an alert set at 4c, based on the Daily chart.
> But at the moment, I don't see much volume, so I'll wait for the Market to wake up.




Alert triggered on Monday. I'm back on board.


----------



## nizora (3 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


pixel said:



			Alert triggered on Monday. I'm back on board.

View attachment 56091

Click to expand...


_
Pixel, Is it a buy alert ?


----------



## pixel (3 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Pixel, Is it a buy alert ?




I thought so. Still do. Check what happened after those earlier blue arrows.


----------



## piggybank (3 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Up 26% this week.


----------



## Basilica (3 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



piggybank said:


> Up 26% this week.




Very impressive yet again with no publicly known reason.

I came across this kingfish farm for sale near CSS hatchery

"Southern Star Aquaculture Pty Ltd (SSA Pty Ltd) is an aquaculture company that has
been raising yellowtail kingfish (YTK) in the clean waters of Fitzgerald Bay, near
Whyalla, South Australia and has been doing this for the last 10 years. It is a family
owned business embracing many years of marine scale fishing and agricultural farming.
The company was formed in February, 2001 with 20 hectares and a quota of 300
tonnes per annum. In 2004, SSA applied for and was granted an additional 30 hectares
with a tonnage of 450 tonnes per annum. That then gave SSA a total of 750 tonnes in
Western Fitzgerald Bay. In the last harvest Southern Star Aquaculture put in during
November 2010 and January 2011, 86,000 fingerlings. This compared to 2001 of
18,000 fingerlings giving and increase in production of in excess of 200% for Southern
Star Aquaculture Pty Ltd over 11 years."

All for just $250K
or just 33c per kg of potential kingfish
Seems quite cheap

Here is the full add


----------



## nizora (4 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


Basilica said:



			I came across this kingfish farm for sale near CSS hatchery

"Southern Star Aquaculture Pty Ltd (SSA Pty Ltd) is an aquaculture company that has
been raising yellowtail kingfish (YTK) in the clean waters of Fitzgerald Bay, near
Whyalla, South Australia and has been doing this for the last 10 years. It is a family
owned business embracing many years of marine scale fishing and agricultural farming.
The company was formed in February, 2001 with 20 hectares and a quota of 300
tonnes per annum. In 2004, SSA applied for and was granted an additional 30 hectares
with a tonnage of 450 tonnes per annum. That then gave SSA a total of 750 tonnes in
Western Fitzgerald Bay. In the last harvest Southern Star Aquaculture put in during
November 2010 and January 2011, 86,000 fingerlings. This compared to 2001 of
18,000 fingerlings giving and increase in production of in excess of 200% for Southern
Star Aquaculture Pty Ltd over 11 years."

All for just $250K
or just 33c per kg of potential kingfish
Seems quite cheap
		
Click to expand...


_


*SSA Pty Ltd's story is a chilly reminder for CSS investors. Let's hope that CSS is not ending up in a same fate as SSA Pty Ltd.*

http://www.panoramaacuicola.com/noticias/2008/01/14/aquaculture_companies_create_success_.html

https://insolvencynotices.asic.gov....27849325/b949d34b-8e42-47e7-908b-6e7012f7d500

http://www.eldersrealestate.com.au/commercial/buy/property-agricultural-services-sa-whyalla-527737


----------



## Basilica (4 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi nizora,

It is a worry. 
What happened to the King fish market? Over supply? Price crash?

I got this from your link (about SSA)
“The company is expanding phenomenally and we need the infrastructure to continue developing,”
A scary quote

Perhaps it is just a slim profit margin.
You touched on it earlier this page
Business is easy at a sale price of $40 / KG with costs of $10 / kg
It rarely stays that good
.


----------



## nizora (9 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


Basilica said:



			Hi nizora,

It is a worry. 
What happened to the King fish market? Over supply? Price crash

Perhaps it is just a slim profit margin.
You touched on it earlier this page
Business is easy at a sale price of $40 / KG with costs of $10 / kg
It rarely stays that good
.
		
Click to expand...


_

Found this :

"FishFingers:
SSA was a poorly run company, a bit like Cleanseas of yesteryear. Infastructure was poor and fish husbandry knowledge of YTK was limited. SSA infact got there Yellowtail Kingfish fingerlings from Cleanseas at around 10 grams. The BHP steelworks and EPA around Whyalla is also questionable to the quality of the waters around the area, obviously raised eyebrows at Cleanseas when they moved all of their fish out of the area and down south to Pt Lincoln 3 years ago."


----------



## nizora (10 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


pixel said:



			I thought so. Still do. Check what happened after those earlier blue arrows.

View attachment 56123

Click to expand...


_
The SP is moving north steadily. It is $0.052 this morning.


----------



## pixel (10 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> The SP is moving north steadily. It is $0.052 this morning.




Should've bought more, shouldn't we


----------



## Basilica (10 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Should've bought more, shouldn't we
> 
> View attachment 56234




Hi pixel,

I am a newbee on technical analysis.
the blue arrows do predict an upward trend in volume and price.
When did the arrow first appear for you.
on the date of the arrow or did the software need a few more days of data and then placed the arrow in hindsight a few days earlier?
I hope i have asked the question correctly. cheers




nizora said:


> _
> _
> 
> Found this :
> ...




Hi nizora,

good quote, can you post a link?
i am aware of the potential problem of iron in the water.
The area has a very low algae growth because the water lacks iron. this is good for fin fish.
i thought it is just a risk and there have been no spill of iron while loading onto ship?

10 grams is big for fingerlings. They would be juvenile king fish and top dollar.
the 86,000 bought may have cost close to the asking price for the whole farm


----------



## pixel (10 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Basilica said:


> Hi pixel,
> 
> I am a newbee on technical analysis.
> the blue arrows do predict an upward trend in volume and price.
> ...




Hi Basilica,

the arrows appear on the day/ at the instant when the price closes above the latest Low (for green "Buy") or below the latest High (for red "Stop") of the respective Volatility Envelope. These envelopes can be parameter-controlled, depending on how much risk I'm prepared to accept. In the example, I use my standard acceptance of 1 1/2 days, which means I accept the risk that a price move of 1.5 average daily trading ranges goes "against me".  Once a strong trend is established, I increase the tolerance to 2 or 3 days; or I may even switch to a weekly chart and stay calm for a week or two.

A more in-depth description is found here: http://rettmer.com.au/TrinityHome/Helps/cTrinityDuo.htm


----------



## Basilica (10 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Hi Basilica,
> 
> the arrows appear on the day/ at the instant when the price closes above the latest Low (for green "Buy") or below the latest High (for red "Stop") of the respective Volatility Envelope. These envelopes can be parameter-controlled, depending on how much risk I'm prepared to accept. In the example, I use my standard acceptance of 1 1/2 days, which means I accept the risk that a price move of 1.5 average daily trading ranges goes "against me".  Once a strong trend is established, I increase the tolerance to 2 or 3 days; or I may even switch to a weekly chart and stay calm for a week or two.
> 
> A more in-depth description is found here: http://rettmer.com.au/TrinityHome/Helps/cTrinityDuo.htm




Thanks pixel, The 4 blue arrows are sweet times to buy. I checked out the link but was confronted with unknown lingo. I think the arrows are preconfigered trigger points based on your risk/reward/quality sleep time factors.  Thanks for the info, i have much learning to do


----------



## nizora (23 January 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

23 January 2014 

Company Announcement 

CLEAN SEAS TUNA LIMITED (ASX: CSS) OPERATIONS AND PROFIT UPDATE 

"Production Expansion on Track 
The Company is pleased to advise that the strategy to expand Yellowtail Kingfish production 
to 1,500 tonnes per annum is proceeding to plan, with biological growth and survival 
positively exceeding plan. Based on current performance, the Company is clearly on track to 
deliver on its previously advised production targets to achieve our improved sales and 
profitability by 2015. "

"Anticipated 1st Half FY2014 Results 
In November 2013, the Company advised the market that, including the $6.157million R&D 
tax rebate, after tax profit was expected to be in the range $1.5million to $3.0million for the 
1st Half FY2014. 

Based upon the combined impacts of solid fish performance, strong survival, productivity 
 improvements and sales growth outlined above, the Company now expects that, including 
 the $6.157million R&D tax rebate, after tax profit will be in the range $3.6million to 
 $4.1million for the 1st Half FY2014. 

*We expect to release our results for the first six months once finalised in the week ending 
 21st February 2014*."


----------



## nizora (21 February 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


nizora said:



			23 January 2014 

Company Announcement 

*We expect to release our results for the first six months once finalised in the week ending 
 21st February 2014*."
		
Click to expand...


_

​21 February 2014 

Company Announcement 

Australian Securities Exchange Limited 



CLEAN SEAS TUNA LIMITED (ASX: CSS): HALF YEAR FINANCIAL RESULTS 
Results Overview 

Clean Seas Tuna Ltd (“Clean Seas”) is pleased to announce an after tax profit of $4.004 million for 
the 6 months ended 31st December 2013, which includes a $6.157 R&D tax rebate previously 
advised to the market. 

Yellowtail Kingfish grow more rapidly in the warm waters of the summer season, during the second 
half of the financial year, and have a naturally lower growth rate in the cooler first six months of the 
financial year. As a result, the Company’s financial performance is seasonal, with second half 
performance traditionally exceeding profitability in the first half of the financial year. Accordingly 
the substantial 56% improvement from underlying operations achieved in this first half (Loss: $1.933 
million) compared to the previous corresponding period (Loss: $4.373 million) reflects an 
exceptional improvement in sustainable biological performance. 

Expansion Confidence 

We expect current biological gains to continue to underpin the Company’s future performance as we 
profitably and sustainably expand production to meet growing global demand. This, together with 
our improved current period results, provide the Company’s Directors and Management with a 
heightened degree of confidence that we are ahead of our expectations to deliver underlying 
operational profitability. 

This confidence in our progress towards rebuilding a profitable Yellowtail Kingfish business is 
strengthened by improved feed and risk management practices leading to: 

• A reduction in mortalities to historically low levels; 
• An improvement in growth rates, returning to normal levels and a consequential 
improvement in feed conversion ratios; 
• A return to robust health and appearance reflected in excellent farmgate prices exceeding 
$14.00/kg; 
• Encouraging performance of this season’s juveniles bred from selected broodstock raised in 
the Company’s Yellowtail Kingfish selective breeding program; and 
• An earlier stocking of our fingerlings leading to an accelerated growth, supporting our return 
to 1500 tonne production per annum


Solid Cash Position 

Following a successful Share Purchase Plan (closing in December 2013), the Company’s cash position 
as at December 31, 2013 ($16.1 million) lays an important and pivotal foundation to support the 
successful execution of the Company’s planned Yellowtail Kingfish expansion to harvest 1,500 
tonnes. 

Continued Fish Performance Improvement 
Kingfish biomass growth and fish survival are exceeding our budgets, forecasts and previous 
historical fish performance. 

Over the next six months we will work diligently to continue to deliver fish performance well above 
our budget. We have begun increasing our monthly sales tonnages and will continue to do so up to 
February 2015, when we will reach our initial monthly sale target, achieving the equivalent of 1500 
tonnes of sales per annum. 

The figures set out below illustrate how our fish performance is well ahead of our budget. Figure 1 
shows the monthly performance with higher seasonal growth rates shown in the Summer months. 
Actual performance year to date is significantly ahead of our budget at the start of the year. Our 
revised forecast for the remainder of the year sees this trend continuing. Figure 2 below shows 
cumulative performance year to date against budget. 
 Solid Cash Position 

Following a successful Share Purchase Plan (closing in December 2013), the Company’s cash position 
as at December 31, 2013 ($16.1 million) lays an important and pivotal foundation to support the 
successful execution of the Company’s planned Yellowtail Kingfish expansion to harvest 1,500 
tonnes. 

Continued Fish Performance Improvement 
Kingfish biomass growth and fish survival are exceeding our budgets, forecasts and previous 
historical fish performance. 

Over the next six months we will work diligently to continue to deliver fish performance well above 
our budget. We have begun increasing our monthly sales tonnages and will continue to do so up to 
February 2015, when we will reach our initial monthly sale target, achieving the equivalent of 1500 
tonnes of sales per annum. 

The figures set out below illustrate how our fish performance is well ahead of our budget. Figure 1 
shows the monthly performance with higher seasonal growth rates shown in the Summer months. 
Actual performance year to date is significantly ahead of our budget at the start of the year. Our 
revised forecast for the remainder of the year sees this trend continuing. 

Anticipated FY2014 Results 

As earlier outlined, the Company’s earnings are seasonal. Higher earnings are generally recorded in 
the second half of each financial year, due to higher Summer and Autumn fish growth rates, when 
warmer seawater temperatures deliver improved growing conditions. 
_
Having regard to progress to date, the Board continues to be optimistic that with a continuation of 
the solid first half fish performance for the balance of this financial year, the Company could achieve 
full year underlying profitability some 12 months ahead of our previous FY2015 expectations._ That 
said, the Board reiterates and acknowledges that the inherent operational risks in aquaculture can 
very clearly impact upon this outcome. 

The Board will continue to keep the market informed of fish performance outcomes over the key 
summer growing months ahead of us. 

As previously advised, the full year FY2014 statutory results will include the $6.157million R&D 
rebate received in October 2013, and an allowance for an additional smaller R&D rebate claim for 
2014. The anticipated R&D rebate for 2014 will be included in the current year results now that the 
Company has formalised its R&D accounting and with turnover continuing below $20 million. 

The FY2014 results are also expected to include an abnormal non-cash income item arising from a 
$3.9million credit for deferred income. This deferred income is expected to arise on completion of 
reporting and other obligations in relation to an AusIndustry grant received in respect of the 
establishment of its Southern Bluefin Tuna program, the costs of which were written off in 1st Half 
FY2013. 

The Company is pleased to continue to deliver performance above expectations and is focussed on 
its ongoing Yellowtail Kingfish performance, maintaining premium market returns as well as key 
underlying development strategies. The Board remains confident of its continuing progress against 
those objectives. 

Planning has also begun for continued expansion of our Yelllowtail Kingfish business beyond 1500 
tonnes per annum, towards our next target of 3,000 tonnes per annum. The Company is mindful of 
the need to be market driven to ensure we continue to achieve premium pricing for our premium 
product. The Company is beginning the process to step up our marketing efforts to support 
expansion of consumer and market demand for premium Yellowtail Kingfish.


----------



## pixel (4 July 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Either some buyers "know something" about the next Financial report, or the Market is speculating it'll be good.





I'll go into the weekend with a nice profit: in part "real", and some of it "paper", i.e. yet to be realised.


----------



## pixel (15 August 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

A  month of sideways movement, including some more "realised" profit, the break alert I had maintained for CSS finally fired two days ago. Today, they released the long-awaited Financials; and the Market liked the results. http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01542863

Why shouldn't it: A solid profit after a big loss the previous year; and an NTA that has improved by more than 33%. Those are "good" results in anyone's language.
So I bought on the way up, waited for signs of an Intraday resistance, and took part profit at 6.7c. Still holding some over the weekend in expectation (hope?) of more upside.


----------



## tge oracle (17 August 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I didn’t think I would find myself writing any more comments on CSS as I thought they would not garner enough support for a capital raising, to my amazement, they were successful in raising enough funds to re-start the YTK business. I could never understand why they abandoned YTK in the early years, I have long contended, that they should build this valuable product into a profitable business before committing large sums of funds to the SBT project.
Friday’s full year accounts were enough for me to accept that they are fully committed to establishing a viable YTK business. As such, I have re-invested in CSS ( something I never thought I would do again ). There is a huge potential market for YTK, particularly, the farmed product which is considered to be superior in taste and quality to the wild caught fish. CSS is the only major YTK aquaculture producer outside of Japan and have a very niche market and product. There is a lot of focus on the Chinese market for their YTK but, the truth is , YTK is popular throughout the world, particularly, in Sashimi and Sushi restaurants.
In regards to SBT, they should only re-start this project after the YTK business has been grown to capacity and, only then, on a small research scale. They should investigate the water temperature issues affecting SBT and look to other husbandry and growout options. Additionally, the involvement of a partner like Kinki University should be sought to assist with this project. As with farmed YTK, Kinki’s farmed BFT are highly regarded in Japan.

I can see many positives in the CSS story and believe they are now on the right track, namely:

1.	The entity is profitable.
2.	No debt.
3.	Niche product.
4.	Little or no competition.
5.	Huge potential market.
6.	Health benefits of YTK ( high Omega3 content )
7.	Success in achieving high growth rates.
8.	Low mortality rates.
9.	CSS have a vision and plan for future growth.
10.	Good Management.
11.	Strong and supportive investor base.
12.	Market Cap ( $72M ) makes for a compelling investment. TGR is currently $560M. I can see no reason why CSS can’t build their business into a substantially larger entity than it’s current scale.
13.	Potential for a future partner, hopefully Kinki ,to assist with SBT project.


Disc- Reinvested in CSS ( substantial ) for long term. Invested in TGR. Opinion only,  DYOR.


----------



## nizora (25 August 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


tge oracle said:



			I can see many positives in the CSS story and believe they are now on the right track, namely:

1.	The entity is profitable.
2.	No debt.
3.	Niche product.
4.	Little or no competition.
5.	Huge potential market.
6.	Health benefits of YTK ( high Omega3 content )
7.	Success in achieving high growth rates.
8.	Low mortality rates.
9.	CSS have a vision and plan for future growth.
10.	Good Management.
11.	Strong and supportive investor base.
12.	Market Cap ( $72M ) makes for a compelling investment. TGR is currently $560M. I can see no reason why CSS can’t build their business into a substantially larger entity than it’s current scale.
13.	Potential for a future partner, hopefully Kinki ,to assist with SBT project.


Disc- Reinvested in CSS ( substantial ) for long term. Invested in TGR. Opinion only,  DYOR.
		
Click to expand...


_
Some encouraging news, albeit a wee bit late  :
_*
http://www.smh.com.au/business/clea...al-partner-20140817-1050j7.html#ixzz3AhJV3ypX*_


----------



## pixel (3 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

it may have taken a while longer than expected, and after trading some swings, I nearly missed today's breakout.
Some one seems very keen to buy a large stake.




but no announcement yet.


----------



## nizora (3 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> _Some one seems very keen to buy a large stake._
> .




Institutional buying ? Support is desperately needed !!!
Unfortunately ,I had seen in the past SP spiked, cap raising quickly followed.


----------



## pixel (3 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Institutional buying ? Support is desperately needed !!!
> Unfortunately ,I had seen in the past SP spiked, cap raising quickly followed.




Something like that had been at the back of my mind, causing me to hesitate ...
Also a reversal like in mid-August ...


----------



## pixel (8 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Something like that had been at the back of my mind, causing me to hesitate ...
> Also a reversal like in mid-August ...




I had forgotten that Pulse has a Broker Report, which tells me who has been predominantly buying and who has been a net seller over a selected period. Interesting result: Since the beginning of August, the bulk of the buying has been for Biggies like Deutsche, Patersons, MorganS, UBS, ... whereas Commsec and ETrade clients have supplied the net selling. Makes me think that my holding is in good company. ...


----------



## nizora (8 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


pixel said:



			Interesting result: Since the beginning of August, the bulk of the buying has been for Biggies like Deutsche, Patersons, MorganS, UBS, 

Click to expand...


_

Some additional encouraging news:

_ "also considering inviting Chinese investors to take part in the business for the first time in its history. Marcus wants to have a partner, ideally a family business with similar values and succession planning."_

_http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/9/4/family-business/fishing-success-sea-challenges_


----------



## nizora (15 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


nizora said:





Some additional encouraging news
		
Click to expand...


_


A quick glance to CSS in operation (19 minute mark)

http://www.jump-in.com.au/show/financialreviewsunday/episodes/2014/episode-32/episdoe-32/#autoplay


----------



## nizora (15 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> A quick glance to CSS in operation (19 minute mark)
> 
> http://www.jump-in.com.au/show/financialreviewsunday/episodes/2014/episode-32/episdoe-32/#autoplay[/url]




Better link here : http://www.afr.com/sunday 

_*Economies of scales  *_  ( 3 minute mark )
It's an industry already worth an estimated $4 billion a year, but Australian aquaculture could double in value by the end of the decade.


----------



## pixel (15 September 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

While I like their business model and feel rather confident about Aquaculture in general, I had my finger on the sell button quite a few times today. IMHO, holding the rising support line was essential, and a break below now 6.95c would make it very hard for me to stay with confidence.


----------



## pixel (3 October 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> While I like their business model and feel rather confident about Aquaculture in general, I had my finger on the sell button quite a few times today. IMHO, holding the rising support line was essential, and a break below now 6.95c would make it very hard for me to stay with confidence.




There you go: The support didn't hold; so I didn't hold on either.




And then, a new support level materialised; when it broke the Volatility Envelope yesterday, I got back on. 
Traded a few swingers today and will only stay Long when the 7.5c resistance becomes new support.


----------



## tge oracle (6 October 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I am impressed with the content of the Chairman’s AGM address. There has been a distinct change in the tone of communications coming from CSS over the past year or so and it is one that inspires confidence that they are on the right track to future development and growth.
Much of what is occurring now reminds me of the early days of TGR but the big difference is that CSS have a captive market with YTK and virtually no competition. TGR had to compete with producers from all over the world (Norway, Chile, Canada etc ) for their Atlantic Salmon. I am of a view that CSS have the potential to develop a much faster rate of growth.
It is encouraging to see that they are looking at further marketing opportunities, in particular, for 1 KG fish.
Having an investor like Simplot ( John West ) onboard they should also consider packaged options for YTK. TGR have had considerable success in marketing and distributing their packaged product throughout Australia via the large supermarket chains.
I applaud their decision to consider moving the SBT to sea pens to assist lowering husbandry costs whilst they wait to restart this project.
They continue to communicate their desire for a large investor to assist with this project but I believe they would be better served in closing out the life cycle of SBT first. I continue to believe they should look to seeking a partner to achieve this objective prior to seeking a financial partner.
Potential investors will be “ knocking the door down” to be involved if they can complete the life cycle , additionally, CSS will be in a much stronger position to dictate the terms of any partnership.
Their decision to take on limited debt for the next stage of development, rather than tap shareholders, is prudent in the current record low interest rate environment and is a further sign of Managements confidence in CSS as they, like us, have “ skin in the game “.

I am feeling much of what I felt in 2006/2007 with CSS. Full of Hope, Expectation, Enthusiasm and Confidence.

Disc – Opinion only. Invested in CSS and TGR. DYOR.


----------



## pixel (9 October 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> There you go: The support didn't hold; so I didn't hold on either.
> 
> And then, a new support level materialised; when it broke the Volatility Envelope yesterday, I got back on.
> Traded a few swingers today and will only stay Long when the 7.5c resistance becomes new support.




7.5 is definitely shaping up as the new support. That becomes even clearer when we step back and take a wider-angle look at the chart. I admit, I got the jitters yesterday and took profit at 8.7c. Will probably return for some day-trades in preparation for a blow-off, although that may never come.




Going by rules and experience, I do expect a pullback to either of the two rising trendlines drawn in. If the steeper one should be broken - at about 8c - even 7.5 could come back into play.


----------



## nizora (22 October 2014)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Today's news :
*Clean Seas - Competitive Advantages*

 Successfully pioneered the propagation, husbandry, harvesting and marketing of the 
 Yellowtail Kingfish species outside of Japan since 2000
 Excellent job of positioning its Hiramasa brand at the high end of the Sashimi market
 The Hiramasa Kingfish brand is recognised internationally as a 
 premium sashimi and white table fish
*Australia’s only commercial producer of Yellowtail Kingfish
Ability to produce Yellowtail Kingfish fingerlings at any time of the year
There is no other reliable producer of fingerlings in the world*
 Established pool of genetically selected broodstock
 Existing extensive hatchery resources and infrastructure to support growth
 Existing water lease area to produce greater than 6000 tonnes
 IP facilitates expansion into other suitable growing waters
 Active R&D program for ongoing business improvement


----------



## pixel (2 January 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

CSS is back on my short list, with a buy level at 6.8c




Its momentum has definitely turned up, but the low volume held me back so far; while that may be due in part to the time of year, I want to see confirmation that the Market maintains the momentum and commits more credible amounts to CSS.


----------



## tge oracle (30 January 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It is very pleasing to see that CSS are well on track with their production/cash flow objectives. Additionally, it good to see they are achieving good growth rates and spawning quantities.
I am satisfied with my re-investment in CSS and expect to see a continuation of this progress.
I am very confident on the seafood/agriculture sector and have raised holdings in a number of investments over the past 6 months for TGR, HUO and AAC.
Apart from strong demand and new trade deals the plummeting AUD $ is an added bonus for this sector. I am expecting to see some acquisition activity, this year, as the crashing AUD is making many businesses attractive to foreign entities looking to acquire agricultural assets.

Disc – Opinion only, invested in CSS, TGR ,HUO and AAC, DYOR


----------



## tge oracle (28 February 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The recent food poisoning cases throughout Australia with Berries and Seafood helps shine a light on the high quality, environmentally responsible and sustainable nature of aquaculture in Australia. It is my view that this is just the “ tip of the iceberg” in a realization by the Australian consumer that cheap overseas products come with a risk to health and wellbeing. I firmly believe that the consumer dynamics are gradually shifting to quality, healthy and environmentally responsible products in Australia. TGR and HUO have grown their market share considerably over the past 5-10years as a result of this behavioural shift. CSS is in a very unique and desirable position of farming a great product that has the potential to become a household name in Australia. I really do hope they look to expand their product range to include Australian supermarkets. This will need careful product and packaging options, as was the case for TGR and HUO in the early years. I can see many synergies between these companies having watched and invested in TGR for many years and HUO more recently. I am of a view that the current management can see the potential and will hopefully capitalize on this opportunity.

Disc – Invested in TGR, HUO and CSS. Opinion only, DYOR.


----------



## Evolve (4 March 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*





I've been trying to learn VSA to assist with my investments and would appreciate your thoughts Tech on this chart.

My current thoughts/trade review

I decided to enter CSS based upon my fundamental analysis with the idea that the upcoming quarterly report/ half year report would prove a catalyst. 

On the 22nd of January at 72c  i entered as Technically CSS was trading near 70c support which had held at the bottom of a trading range. Low volume had started to pick up slightly and price started trending up off the lows which i took as a signal of demand building.

On the 30th of January upon the release of the quarterly the price spiked and volume was very high showing that the smart money sold into the news. A clear sell indicator. I ignored this waiting for the HY which I thought would catalyse a break from the trading range. 

Price action the day before the HY was interesting with a spike and large volume. Which could be seen as possible insider trading in the expectation of a good result

The following day the HY was released which was average by my expectations leading to a large range, high volume and closing near the lows. The Following day also had a high range and high volume closing in the middle. With the previous high volume on the quarterly I expect that the smart money is selling into the news using it as an opportunity to distribute.

The day before the HY was released the smart money may have bid the shares up to try and increase demand. The smart money quite often distribute into good news and accumulate into bad news. They care nothing for the news as they already have a position, or are looking to create one. The problem with this trade is that it is stuck in a trading range between 70c-80c that I see no near term end to. 

I would have sold on the HY release but i wasn't present, nor the day following. Caught me by surprise 
Im a beginner trying to get better and these are just my thoughts would appreciate any comments.

Cheers


----------



## tech/a (4 March 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

My view.

*ACCUMULATION*

*Weekly charts*


----------



## nizora (14 April 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Where to from here CSS:


_
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-08/bluefin-tuna-farming-japan/6373310_


----------



## pixel (15 April 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> Where to from here CSS:
> 
> 
> _
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-08/bluefin-tuna-farming-japan/6373310_




so far, the answer seems to be "Up" 
I stocked up at 7c.


----------



## tge oracle (1 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The recent 4C, in my view, is a disappointment. CSS have, once again, under delivered particularly with production targets 1350t to 1150t. When will they ever learn the dynamics of being a publicly listed company?
If you are going to make bold and confident statements about goals and expectations you must, without doubt, ensure that they are achievable and reached. I have now nagging doubts about the new management and board  of CSS and ,yes ,I have reduced my holding, fortunately, to invest in professional well managed aquaculture companies Tasal and Huon.
I will remain invested with CSS for the time being but any whiff of BS and I will exit irrespective of price.

Disc – Invested in CSS ( holding reduced ). Invested in TGR and HUO ( holdings increased ). Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## pixel (2 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> The recent 4C, in my view, is a disappointment. CSS have, once again, under delivered particularly with production targets 1350t to 1150t. When will they ever learn the dynamics of being a publicly listed company?
> If you are going to make bold and confident statements about goals and expectations you must, without doubt, ensure that they are achievable and reached. I have now nagging doubts about the new management and board  of CSS and ,yes ,I have reduced my holding, fortunately, to invest in professional well managed aquaculture companies Tasal and Huon.
> I will remain invested with CSS for the time being but any whiff of BS and I will exit irrespective of price.
> 
> Disc – Invested in CSS ( holding reduced ). Invested in TGR and HUO ( holdings increased ). Opinion only. DYOR.




Technicals agree with Fundamentals. Following the Bearish Engulfing candle on Friday, April 17th, I stopped out on April 20th and have not found a good-enough reason to buy back.




Agree also that TGR and HUO look better at this stage. However, at the current stage of market cycle, I am not keen on any new long position.


----------



## tge oracle (3 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



pixel said:


> Technicals agree with Fundamentals. Following the Bearish Engulfing candle on Friday, April 17th, I stopped out on April 20th and have not found a good-enough reason to buy back.
> 
> View attachment 62443
> 
> ...






I am afraid your trading vernacular is all foreign to me Pixel. As a lifetime value investor, I have never really understood or felt the need to adopt a trading approach to investing. I guess there are times when the stars align for both methods……it appears this may be the case now. We seem to be in agreement with CSS, however, I differ in my opinion on TGR and HUO. I am very confident that these two companies represent good value and will appreciate considerably over the next few years and beyond.  As for CSS …. it is now  race against the clock. They will really need to become cash flow positive , and soon ,otherwise they will suffer the same fate as before but, this time, investors and the market won’t be so forgiving and spare them the sword.
They have a great product and market, its up to them to show they can exploit this rare and unique opportunity. I believe they can but will be watching very closely for any hint that they are flinching. 

Disc – Invested in CSS ( holding ) , TGR  ( accumulating )and HUO ( accumulating). Opinion only.DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (8 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have recently returned from a business/investment trip to Japan and have made some interesting observations most notably in relation to an advertisement that is regularly screening on Japanese television. The add promotes the high quality, sustainable and delicious characteristics of farmed Blue Fin Tuna (Northern Blue Fin). I did some investigating and made enquiries and was able to derive significant information on the progress and current dynamics of farmed Tuna in Japan. What I found astounded me, One of Japans largest companies (Toyota Corporation) was aggressively pursuing investments in Tuna farms throughout Japan through its investment and trading subsidiary Toyota Tsusho. They have established a business relationship with Kinki University, which predicts a dramatic ramp up of this industry over the next few years. I have attached a link, hereunder, to business details and a timeline sheet for your information. 
CSS can forget any hope of establishing a relationship with Kinki, which is very unfortunate. I don’t believe there was ever any real agreement with Kinki in the past and that this was just more CSS Bull S&1t. In any case, the race has already started on Tuna Farming and CSS are stuck at the gate with a lame horse (Arno Bay facility).
I don’t view this as a major problem as I don’t believe they have the intellectual knowledge or management ability to farm tuna productively and profitably in any case.
The future of CSS lies solely in YTK and they must ramp up the marketing and public information benefits of this great product.

I have been poring over the 4C again. As is always the case with CSS they are very good at highlighting the positives and glossing over the negatives. My intuition suggests that they may not succeed with the bank financing as outlined in the recent 4C. Remember,the worlds leading agricultural investment bank (Rabo Bank ) wouldn’t touch them with a 40 ft barge pole. I can’t see Australian retail banks jumping in. CSS have an abominable business history. I wouldn’t rule out yet another Cap Raising as they need funds ,this quarter, to remain solvent.
I am re-evaluating my risk profile for CSS and projected entity valuation as I am of a view that a Cap Raising will have to be deeply discounted to attract investors….probably around 2-3c. 

http://www.toyota-tsusho.com/english/press/detail/140716_002662.html

Disc – Invested in CSS ( reduced holding ) Invested in TGR and HUO (where I am continuing to accumulate). Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## Basilica (22 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Thats an interesting point about Toyota oracle.
A footnote to add is just after WW2 Toyota's main income was making Fish Paste!
Perhaps they are moving away from the car market. 

On the CSS front the 4C notes about 3M cash left and cash burn about 3M per Q
Another Cap raising this year maybe


----------



## nizora (26 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150526/pdf/42yssdd68qpgqs.pdf_

Highlights
 Strong sales growth – Q3FY15 YTD sales (806 tonnes) up 112% from same period in prior
year (380 tonnes)
 Consistent sizing of product all year round 4-5 kgs whole weight for Hiramasa Kingfish
 Unique product and recognised for unique sashimi quality
 Biomass has been built to 2350 tonnes per annum for further sales expansion
 Returning to key export markets, USA agents appointed
3
 Strengthened management of
Marketing and Sales with Miles
Toomey
 Extended sales force in the
domestic market to develop the
market
 In the process of returning to the
Asia market.


----------



## nizora (26 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcements.do?by=asxCode&asxCode=CSS&timeframe=Y&year=2015_

Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: CSS) is pleased to provide an update in relation to our new bank
working capital facility and a significant new Federal Government research and development grant.
Bank Working Capital Facility
We are pleased to announce that we have finalised an agreement with Commonwealth Bank of
Australia for provision of a secured $7.0m Trade Finance Facility which will provide general and
transactional funding. This is an ongoing facility subject to annual review. We look forward to
working closely with Commonwealth Bank as our banking partner.
The facility will be utilised in supporting the next steps in our development strategy for our Hiramasa
Kingfish, in combination with the cash generation from our Hiramasa sales growth.
Rural R&D for Profit Grant
The Federal Government recently announced the first round of approved grants under the Rural
Research and Development for Profit Programme. This comprises up to $26.7m for 12 projects of
which one is titled “Growing a profitable, innovative, col


----------



## nizora (26 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_


tge oracle said:



			CSS can forget any hope of establishing a relationship with Kinki, which is very unfortunate. I don’t believe there was ever any real agreement with Kinki in the past and that this was just more CSS Bull S&1t. In any case, the race has already started on Tuna Farming and CSS are stuck at the gate with a lame horse (Arno Bay facility).
http://www.toyota-tsusho.com/english/press/detail/140716_002662.html
Disc – Invested in CSS ( reduced holding ) Invested in TGR and HUO (where I am continuing to accumulate). Opinion only. DYOR.
		
Click to expand...


_

_*
The scientists at Kinki University are now selling their unique technology and business model to the rest of the world with America and Malaysia taking up the franchise.
*_

_*http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-08/bluefin-tuna-farming-japan/6373310*_


----------



## tge oracle (29 May 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



nizora said:


> _http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcements.do?by=asxCode&asxCode=CSS&timeframe=Y&year=2015_
> 
> Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: CSS) is pleased to provide an update in relation to our new bank
> working capital facility and a significant new Federal Government research and development grant.
> ...





Well, despite my concerns they have managed to pull off the bank facility. Although there is no mention of terms, and most importantly, interest rate payable, it is encouraging that CommBank have provided funds. They must have a degree of faith in CSS's business plan and future. Let's hope this is well found.
I have reverted to a less stressful position of hold for CSS in anticipation of positive outcomes ahead.

Disc- Invested in CSS. Opinion only.DYOR.


----------



## pixel (17 June 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01633824

What took them so long to discover the poor quality? - if true 
If taurine is so important for their YTK stocks, surely they have the facility to analyse the mix?
Of course, it's easier to blame others. Keeps the Lawyers happy too.


----------



## Sdajii (17 June 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

It will be interesting to see how this goes. I have been involved in commercial animal/meat production, and sometimes feed quality can be a big issue, but in all of my personal experience, if a supplier produces a poor product, we simply go to a different supplier and I have never heard of feed suppliers being held responsible for problems. Don't like the product, stop using it. But, I don't know what sort of contract, if any, CSS had with the feed supplier.

It is not particularly surprising that it took them a long time to determine that a lack of taurine was the problem. Many different things can cause any animal colony to experience problems, and it may not even be immediately apparent that diet is the issue. Even after determining that the feed is the problem, determining exactly which nutrient is the issue is very difficult, generally it wouldn't even happen. As much as I dislike CSS' management, I think it's impressive they identified the taurine deficiency. I'll be watching to see what happens.


----------



## tge oracle (26 July 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have been recently communicating with an associate in Japan and have some interesting news to report. Apparently there is a news article being broadcast on Japanese television about the high demand for farmed seafood, particularly BFT and Unagi ( Freshwater Eel ).  There are reports that Kinki are unable to meet demand and are running out of mature BFT. It is interesting that Japanese consumers prefer the farmed product over wild caught and the main reason for this is the fat content which improves flavour , texture and health benefits ( omega 3 etc ). Australian consumers may not realize but the same principle applies in this country. Most of our top sushi restaurants purchase farmed product in preference over wild caught product for the same reasons stated above. I believe this dynamic is an increasing global phenomenon, which is gradually gaining traction in the consumer world and more importantly, for investor’s, the financial world. 
HUO and CSS have realized this potential and will benefit significantly from this changing consumption dynamic. TGR have decided to focus more on the domestic market but still have limited exports that will still benefit from this demand.
I am of a view that the conundrum facing Kinki will become a reality for HUO and CSS in the future as this raindrop becomes a flood. This is particularly relevant when noting the comment by Mr Kamiya, in my last HUO post, where he states that Salmon is the most popular sushi / sashimi choice by Japanese consumers. 
It is important to note that, in the case of Salmon, Japan is only a minor producer and essentially imports most of it’s Salmon. 

I will keep investors updated with any other relevant information / reports by my contacts in Japan.

Disc – Opinion only. Invested in HUO ( accumulating ) , CSS ( accumulating ) and TGR. DYOR.


----------



## Sdajii (26 July 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I have been recently communicating with an associate in Japan and have some interesting news to report. Apparently there is a news article being broadcast on Japanese television about the high demand for farmed seafood, particularly BFT and Unagi ( Freshwater Eel ).  There are reports that Kinki are unable to meet demand and are running out of mature BFT. It is interesting that Japanese consumers prefer the farmed product over wild caught and the main reason for this is the fat content which improves flavour , texture and health benefits ( omega 3 etc ). Australian consumers may not realize but the same principle applies in this country. Most of our top sushi restaurants purchase farmed product in preference over wild caught product for the same reasons stated above. I believe this dynamic is an increasing global phenomenon, which is gradually gaining traction in the consumer world and more importantly, for investor’s, the financial world.
> HUO and CSS have realized this potential and will benefit significantly from this changing consumption dynamic. TGR have decided to focus more on the domestic market but still have limited exports that will still benefit from this demand.
> I am of a view that the conundrum facing Kinki will become a reality for HUO and CSS in the future as this raindrop becomes a flood. This is particularly relevant when noting the comment by Mr Kamiya, in my last HUO post, where he states that Salmon is the most popular sushi / sashimi choice by Japanese consumers.
> It is important to note that, in the case of Salmon, Japan is only a minor producer and essentially imports most of it’s Salmon.
> ...




Same story as the last however many years. Shortage of tuna, high market demand. This would be great for CSS, if only they could actually produce tuna. Their inability to produce tuna is what has made their story so dismal, and that doesn't look like changing. The kingfish side of CSS is what will make or break them. It's one thing to have a goal, but if you're unable to achieve that goal, the potential is irrelevant.


----------



## tge oracle (27 July 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



Sdajii said:


> Same story as the last however many years. Shortage of tuna, high market demand. This would be great for CSS, if only they could actually produce tuna. Their inability to produce tuna is what has made their story so dismal, and that doesn't look like changing. The kingfish side of CSS is what will make or break them. It's one thing to have a goal, but if you're unable to achieve that goal, the potential is irrelevant.




Hi Sdajii, Yes, you are quite right and I have made this point many times about SBT. CSS will probably never produce SBT. My contacts inform me that Kinki , after 25years, can only produce a small number of viable fingerlings but they are gradually increasing the survival rate. Anyway, back to the main context of my post , which was not actually about CSS's tuna program, but more about the insatiable demand for farmed seafood as opposed to wild caught. Kinki only sells it's farmed BFT through their own restaurants in Japan and there are always long queues waiting to eat there, such is the demand for the farmed product. I am of a view that the same level of demand is applying to YTK and Salmon and this is the point I am trying to get across to the investing community. It is not often that the dynamics of an industry completely change to offer new opportunities, although an example may be the internet and streaming TV altering the media landscape for FTA TV and newspapers.
I can sense an underlying desire and acceptance, by consumers, for quality and environmentally responsible farmed seafood. HUO , CSS and TGR are amongst the best in the world.
I have been a long term investor in seafood for many years and feel more confident than ever that investors will embrace this industry in the years ahead.
I am, of course, heavily invested so do have an ax to grind but I will keep posting information as it comes to hand for the benefit of investors reading our posts.

Disc - Opinion only. Invested in CSS ( accumulating ) , HUO ( accumulating ) and TGR. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (1 August 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



BlueHshoeLvs CSS said:


> Just a quick note to say thanks to truvalue / oracle / fi$h & basilica for a great discussion and informed comments.  I too am a long standing CSS investor (from float) and your insights & thoughts on the stock are v.informative.  I think we're all singing from the same hymnbook, there is a great future in investing in food, and should the next couple of months go well, we could well be reaping the benefits when the market returns to some sense of stability.   Back above $2 would be nice!




No worries, BlueH. Looking at yesterdays 4C my opinion is one of disappointment. The main reason for this is my enduring lack of trust in CSS's woeful management. Once again, they have failed to deliver on promises by not achieving the 1350tonnes sales goal for YTK. It is simply unacceptable for this company to effectively pump up the tyres with their market updates, only to let them down when they are obligated to honest and accurate reporting by the ASX / ASIC. 
Looking past this disappointment, fortunately, they have a great product that will sell and, most likely, at ever increasing prices. Additionally, fish growth and sales are increasing but it appears marketing is still a major weak point for CSS. I only wish they would be taken over or merge with a quality well run and managed company like HUO or TGR. With a quality management it would be blue skies for CSS. I hope all investors take this in to account at AGM,s and push for a complete change of management and ownership of CSS.....including the Sterhrs by voting against supporting the management and board.




Disc - Opinion only. Invested in CSS ( hold ), TGR ( hold ) and HUO ( accumulating ).DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (1 August 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> No worries, BlueH. Looking at yesterdays 4C my opinion is one of disappointment. The main reason for this is my enduring lack of trust in CSS's woeful management. Once again, they have failed to deliver on promises by not achieving the 1350tonnes sales goal for YTK. It is simply unacceptable for this company to effectively pump up the tyres with their market updates, only to let them down when they are obligated to honest and accurate reporting by the ASX / ASIC.
> Looking past this disappointment, fortunately, they have a great product that will sell and, most likely, at ever increasing prices. Additionally, fish growth and sales are increasing but it appears marketing is still a major weak point for CSS. I only wish they would be taken over or merge with a quality well run and managed company like HUO or TGR. With a quality management it would be blue skies for CSS. I hope all investors take this in to account at AGM,s and push for a complete change of management and ownership of CSS.....including the Sterhrs by voting against supporting the management and board.
> 
> 
> ...





Just as I finish typing the last post I find this in today's paper.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...g-in-costa-stake/story-fn91v9q3-1227465448026


----------



## Sdajii (1 August 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I definitely agree about the potential of CSS and the shocking management. If it did have a complete change of management, with the new team being as good as TGR's (just as an example), it could be brilliant. I wouldn't be keen to jump on board with anything run by the current team though.


----------



## tge oracle (29 August 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

The Annual report is quite hard to decipher it seems to be a myriad of smoke and mirrors. I don’t know if anybody else can see through the mist at what is actually going on but any input would be appreciated. They have managed to turn a profit for a change but have failed to meet production targets and, now, seem to have abandoned any projections for the future, which is probably a good thing as they are serial failures at meeting targets. They do mention the desire to achieve 3000tpa sales but I am unsure as to how or when this will be achieved they advise over “ subsequent years” which could mean anything 1,2, 3…5…10 yrs ?
My impression of CSS has always been one of a “rudderless ship”.....nothing seems to have changed and I am not at all surprised that the CEO is leaving ( shown the door ? ). They are waxing lyrical about his contribution but I am not convinced he is the wunderkind they seem to think he is. In any case, it is not a good look when the CEO who apparently has a great vision and plan for the company, decides to leave on the cusp of transformation.
Despite what I consider to be a disappointing report, the underlying dynamics remain solid i.e. increasing demand , low mortality, increased growth rates , diversifying product range, exploring new markets, low AUD, unique product with little or no competition.
With a little luck CSS will find a CEO who can grow the company to it’s full potential…..my greatest hope though, is a takeover by a well managed and credentialed aquaculture company/investor.

Disc - I will maintain a hold on CSS and await further developments. Opinion only.DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (25 September 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Reading through yesterday’s analyst presentation there is cause for optimism, if the commentary can be believed. They are achieving record low mortality rates whilst achieving increased biomass. This is a compelling dynamic for any company involved in the propagation and farming of live animals and, indeed, is an essential ingredient for sustained profitability.
Another significant positive is news of the first shipment to China during September. The potential for this to materially affect the value of CSS should not be overlooked. I travel to Japan regularly, China occasionally, and there are two themes that keep ringing in my ears. The Japanese complain about China’s insatiable appetite for sushi and how it is affecting their supplies of quality product at a reasonable price, whilst Chinese vendors complain about the lack of reliable supply of quality product. Either way, the demand potential for Hiramasa kingfish could redefine CSS as a truly global scale producer of YTK. 


Disc – Invested in CSS ( will consider accumulating more if recent price weakness is sustained ), Opinion only. DYOR.


----------



## tge oracle (5 October 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have attached a quote from legendary investor Carl Icahn from an article on the front page of today’s SMH. He is very bearish on the world economy and, in particular, Australia. He does, however, single out agriculture ( presumably also aquaculture ) as a bright spot in Australia’s future. I have not posted the full article but it is worth a read.

Quote: 

“For Australia, the end of the China-led commodities boom does not spell an end to China-led export growth. Agriculture represents a huge opportunity, as do services and education, while China's need for commodities will never be modest.”


For full article follow link:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/a-glo...h-us-down-the-wrong-path-20151002-gjzuu8.html



Disc – Invested in MGC, AAC, CGC, WBA, TGR, HUO and CSS


----------



## nizora (30 October 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

_

30 October 2015

SEPTEMBER QUARTER CASH FLOW REPORT AND BUSINESS UPDATE

Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: CSS) has today released the September quarter Appendix 4C. The
Board also wish to take the opportunity to provide a business update.
Sales
Sales in Q1FY16 were 322 tonnes which is 47% higher than Q1FY15 and 10% higher than Q4FY15.
These sales were mostly to the Australian and European market while sales to the USA and Asian
markets comprised 4% of the total. The Company remains focussed on substantially increasing sales
to the latter markets in FY16 while also continuing to increase sales in the Australian and European
market. Sales in October are approximately 10% higher than the Q1FY16 monthly average and our
full year FY16 sales expectation remains at 2,000 tonnes.
Production
Our Yellowtail Kingfish continue to perform very well, maintaining excellent health and historically
very high survival rates. In October we have entered the period of the year where seawater
temperatures have increased above 17 degrees Celsius and therefore the Kingfish resume strong
growth.
The first run of 2016 Year Class fingerlings were transferred to sea cages in September 2015 and the
second run will be transferred in early November. Further runs are scheduled for December and
February. The 2016 Year Class are performing very well to date and our Hatchery facility continues
to reliably produce high quality fingerlings.
R&D Tax Incentive Cash Refund
The FY15 statutory accounts included $4.6 million as the estimated cash refund to be received in
FY16 attributable to FY15 R&D activities. As noted in our AGM Presentation, following completion of
the required documentation this cash refund is now expected to be $6.0 million, which is expected
to be received during Q2FY16.
Outlook
We refer to our 14 October 2015 AGM Presentation which provided details of our plans, priorities
and expectations in FY16 and beyond. We remain particularly focussed on our sales expansion
strategy via market development and product development and the challenges associated with reentering
the USA and Asian markets. We look forward to providing further updates on these
initiatives as the year progresses._


----------



## tge oracle (31 October 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Yes, tks for that Nizora. It is encouraging that sales are increasing and that the US / Asia market is only a minor contributor, at this stage. The real explosion of growth will occur when these markets start to ramp up. Either way, I am comfortable with the dynamics of CSS, except their weak Management and Marketing credentials. I expect this to change over the next 12 months with a new CEO and increasing demand profile for it's YTK.

Disc - Opinion only. invested in CSS ( holding increased since Sept 25th post ). DYOR.


----------



## nizora (7 December 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Sales Update and Earnings Guidance 7 December 2015
Sales volume for FY15 was 1,098 tonnes, up 92% from FY14, with market guidance for FY16 being for
a further material increase to approximately 2,000 tonnes. Sales to 30 November of 594 tonnes have
increased by 45% over sales for the corresponding period to 30 November 2014 and month on
month increased market penetration is encouraging. Full year guidance of approximately 2,000
tonnes remains our expectation.
Average farmgate sales prices have held well in the year to date. Sales growth has continued in the
Australian and European markets and Clean Seas is developing new fresh and frozen products
targeted at food service and retail markets to take advantage of the company’s continuing strong
production performance.
The cost of re-entry to the US and Asian markets for prime grade sashimi product, together with the
development costs and introductory pricing incentives for new products in our domestic and export
markets, has however been more significant than anticipated.
Overall, the Strategic Sales & Marketing Plan requires up to $4 million in additional costs and the
Board has resolved that it would be prudent to provide for these costs in the fish valuation as at 31
December 2015. _*Clean Seas advises that it anticipates reporting a pre-tax loss for H1FY16 in the
order of $7 million compared to a loss of $0.7 million in H1FY15*_, with the increased loss mainly
attributable to the $4 million valuation adjustment. Profitable trading for H2FY16 is anticipated, due
to the seasonality of Clean Seas’ earnings, with the majority of annual fish growth occurring in H2
due to higher average seawater temperatures.
Company Liquidity
Clean Seas confirms that it has adequate cash reserves and banking facilities in place to meet its
operating requirements for the FY16 year. The company’s cash position has improved materially
since the release of Appendix 4C Cash Flow Report to 30 September 2015. The company confirms
that it has received $6.031 million from its FY15 R&D Tax Incentive refund. The refund is $1.418
million more than was anticipated as at 30 June 2015 and the cash generated from this R&D
incentive will materially assist the funding of the company’s Strategic Sales & Marketing Plan
described above.


----------



## alonso (7 December 2015)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

This is one for the expert swing traders because it does oscillate round that 5c but basically goes nowhere.
I managed to grab a small profit out of it once but wouldn't try my luck again.


----------



## tge oracle (23 January 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

I have just returned from another trip to Japan and have some exiting news on a new development in tuna farming in Japan. After enjoying some Kindai Marguro ( Japanese farmed Bluefin Tuna ) at Tsukji fish market I was made aware of another high quality " o toro" farmed tuna which is derived from Suma ( Mackeral Tuna ). The taste and quality of this new form of farmed tuna is taking Japan by storm. For those who don't know Mac Tuna is far more prolific and much smaller than BFT at around 5-15kg. They are much easier and cheaper to farm than BFT. Additionally, they are far more robust and hardy than BFT. This is a sensational development when you consider that Kinki have been able to replicate the finest quality Tuna , usually found in a BFT of at least 250kg, from an abundant species of Tuna that is only 10kg. 
I am not sure if CSS is still "asleep at the wheel" struggling with 200kg plus BFT but they should be looking at this new development with Mac tuna as I am of a view that this will make BFT obsolete. I have not been able to determine if Suma are easier to breed but wouldn't be surprised if it is.
I will keep you updated with any new information on this exiting new development in the farming of Tuna.

Disc - Opinion only, Invested in CSS, HUO, TGR, MGC, CGC, AAC and WBA. DYOR


----------



## galumay (24 January 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*



tge oracle said:


> I have just returned from another trip to Japan and have some exiting news on a new development in tuna farming in Japan. After enjoying some Kindai Marguro ( Japanese farmed Bluefin Tuna ) at Tsukji fish market I was made aware of another high quality " o toro" farmed tuna which is derived from Suma ( Mackeral Tuna ). The taste and quality of this new form of farmed tuna is taking Japan by storm. For those who don't know Mac Tuna is far more prolific and much smaller than BFT at around 5-15kg. They are much easier and cheaper to farm than BFT. Additionally, they are far more robust and hardy than BFT. This is a sensational development when you consider that Kinki have been able to replicate the finest quality Tuna , usually found in a BFT of at least 250kg, from an abundant species of Tuna that is only 10kg.
> I am not sure if CSS is still "asleep at the wheel" struggling with 200kg plus BFT but they should be looking at this new development with Mac tuna as I am of a view that this will make BFT obsolete. I have not been able to determine if Suma are easier to breed but wouldn't be surprised if it is.
> I will keep you updated with any new information on this exiting new development in the farming of Tuna.
> 
> Disc - Opinion only, Invested in CSS, HUO, TGR, MGC, CGC, AAC and WBA. DYOR




Interesting, we sometimes catch the Mack Tuna up here when fishing for the Northern Long Tail Blue Fin Tuna and they are a rubbish fish in comparison! The long tails only grow to about 10kg, unlike the BFT, and the Mack Tuna I have only seen to about 5kg.

I wonder if its the same fish or not? I have some Japanese friends so maybe they can shed some light on it.


----------



## nizora (29 January 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

29 January 2016
DECEMBER QUARTER CASH FLOW REPORT AND COMMENTARY
Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: CSS) has today released the December quarter Appendix 4C.
Sales
Sales in H1FY16 were 748 tonnes which is 46% higher than the 511 tonnes in H1FY15. These sales
were mostly to the Australian and European market while sales to the USA and Asian markets
comprised 4% of the total. The Company remains focussed on substantially increasing sales to the
latter markets in H2FY16 and beyond while also continuing to increase sales in the Australian and
European market, which have demonstrated pleasing growth to date in FY16.
Production
Our Yellowtail Kingfish continue to perform very well, maintaining excellent health and historically
high survival rates. Growth has been in line with expectation during the seasonal increase in
seawater temperatures. The seasonal fluctuation in seawater temperatures causes the majority of
annual fish growth to occur in the second half of the financial year. Total biomass at 31 December
2015 was 2,160 tonnes which is 37% higher than the 1,578 tonnes at 31 December 2014.
The first three runs of 2016 Year Class (YC16) fingerlings have now been transferred to sea cages and
the fourth and final run had commenced in the Hatchery at 31 December and are scheduled for
transfer to sea cages in February 2016.
R&D Tax Incentive Cash Refund and Cash Position
The FY15 R&D Tax Incentive Refund of $6.0 million was received in November 2015 and is reflected
in the Q2FY16 Cash Flow Report. At 31 December the cash balance was $0.4 million with the $7.0
million Working Capital Facility completely undrawn.
David Head – Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
As announced on 7 December 2015, David Head commenced as Managing Director and CEO on 28
January 2016. The Board again records its thanks to Craig Foster for the significant improvements
achieved in the business during his period as CEO and looks forward to the next stage of strategic
development with David Head.
Half-Year Results
The company is on schedule to release its half-year results in the last week of February.


----------



## tge oracle (26 February 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Once again, serial offenders when it comes to spin and disappointment. They can try to gloss over the results as much as they like but they have not delivered on long held and regularly amended production and profit targets.
This profit season is making it very easy for me to rebalance my food sector portfolio with HUO and CSS maintaining a consistency of underperformance. I should have known better having followed this company for a number of years but I intend exiting for good this time as I would end writing the same commentary about CSS in 10 years time. This company is, and always has been, a value trap for investors.

Disc - Invested in CSS ( have a strong sell bias and will exit forthwith ) and TGR , MGC , CGC, WBA and AAC in the food sector.


----------



## pixel (8 July 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Cautiously optimistic sale reports suggest Kingfish is the new success story.
Going by recent market action, which is highlighted by reduced supply, the worm may be just about to turn. On the Weekly chart, this week's candle suggests indeed a breakout from several months of consolidation:





I have started to buy the dips; Speccie Rules and tight stops.


----------



## pixel (15 July 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

another step-up


----------



## nizora (1 August 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

29 July 2016
CLEAN SEAS REPORTS POSITIVE OPERATING CASH FLOW IN Q4FY16
Clean Seas Tuna Limited (ASX: CSS) has today released its cash flow report for Q4FY16 and is pleased
to advise that it recorded positive Net Operating Cash Flow and positive Total Operating and
Investing Cash Flow for the quarter.
The Board notes that significant updates have been released on 4 and 5 July 2016 in relation to;
• Achieving just over 2,000 tonnes of sales in FY16
• Entering a distribution arrangement for China, Hong Kong and South Korea
• Receipt of the Independent Expert Forensic Accountant’s Report in relation to the litigation
with feed supplier Gibson’s Limited (trading as Skretting Australia). Gibson’s Limited is
defending the proceedings and has denied all liability to the Group.
Further commentary will be provided in late August with the release of the FY16 results.


----------



## nizora (24 October 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Wow, this fish must be very hungry, another capital raising:

24 October 2016
Request For Trading Halt and Voluntary Suspension –
Reason For Request: The Company intends to make an announcement in relation to a proposed
capital raising


----------



## nizora (14 November 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Meet the CEO - Clean Seas

http://www.switzer.com.au/video/meet-the-ceo/


----------



## Basilica (5 December 2016)

*Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna*

Hi nizora. Yes another CR has come and gone. One issue i do not understand based on the available docs is.
Hagen and David obtained SH approval so they can purchase more shares than the $15k that others were allowed to (at the fixed 33.5c). But reading Friday's 3Y it says Hagen and David bought only the $15k.


----------



## System (7 December 2016)

On December 7th, 2016, Clean Seas Tuna Limited changed its name to Clean Seas Seafood Limited.


----------



## pixel (20 July 2017)

Presentations, FY18 Guidance out this morning
... and the early enthusiasts lap it up by the Millions.






I see a possibility for a drop to 4.4 before eod.


----------



## tge oracle (31 July 2017)

I can't believe that I am back posting on CSS. I was convinced they would fail and end up de-listing, however, their progress with YTK can not be denied any longer. I could never understand why they didn't pursue the course of a profitable YTK business before embarking on the SBT project. The new management and dilution of the Stehr's and their subsequent influence is, I guess, the reason for success in building this business. 
As a long term investor through many market cycles I have to accept that my previous posts were wrong and that CSS now presents as a compelling investment, not without risk, but none the less, appears to be very much on the right track.
I have swallowed my pride and re-invested in CSS today. 
l look forward to posting, positively, in the months/years ahead.....just like the early days.

Disc- Re-invested in CSS.


----------



## skc (31 July 2017)

tge oracle said:


> I can't believe that I am back posting on CSS. I was convinced they would fail and end up de-listing, however, their progress with YTK can not be denied any longer. I could never understand why they didn't pursue the course of a profitable YTK business before embarking on the SBT project. The new management and dilution of the Stehr's and their subsequent influence is, I guess, the reason for success in building this business.
> As a long term investor through many market cycles I have to accept that my previous posts were wrong and that CSS now presents as a compelling investment, not without risk, but none the less, appears to be very much on the right track.
> I have swallowed my pride and re-invested in CSS today.
> l look forward to posting, positively, in the months/years ahead.....just like the early days.
> ...




Yes a string of good announcements has pipped my interest. It seems the company is now almost approaching competence. The projected profits are nice but would like to see some cashflow to match the accounting profits. This won't come for another period or two and no doubt the share price would run well in anticipation of that. It is worth noting though that they have really had 1 year of good fish growth so still lacking a bit of track record. I am tempted to put up a speculative-sized position...


----------



## McLovin (3 August 2017)

Anyone know the status of the lawsuit against their feed supplier? They're claiming ~$40m. Given their MC is only $65m even if they only get half what they are claiming that's a pretty big free kick.


----------



## skc (3 August 2017)

McLovin said:


> Anyone know the status of the lawsuit against their feed supplier? They're claiming ~$40m. Given their MC is only $65m even if they only get half what they are claiming that's a pretty big free kick.




The claim is that the feed supplied was lacking in certain nutrient. It "should" be something that can be proven scientifically? Did Skretting design of custom blend for CSS' fish? If not then there might be other customers impacted as well? 

I guess what I am trying to say is that, if it's easily proven then Skretting would be seeking settlement out of court...

No idea about the status, but I don't really expect much. A free option I guess.


----------



## McLovin (4 August 2017)

skc said:


> The claim is that the feed supplied was lacking in certain nutrient. It "should" be something that can be proven scientifically? Did Skretting design of custom blend for CSS' fish? If not then there might be other customers impacted as well?
> 
> I guess what I am trying to say is that, if it's easily proven then Skretting would be seeking settlement out of court...
> 
> No idea about the status, but I don't really expect much. A free option I guess.




I don't expect a whole lot from it. You do have to wonder why it took them 3.5 years to work out the feed was deficient. If your fish are dying wouldn't the first thing you'd do be to analyse their diet?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 August 2017)

skc said:


> The claim is that the feed supplied was lacking in certain nutrient. It "should" be something that can be proven scientifically? Did Skretting design of custom blend for CSS' fish? If not then there might be other customers impacted as well?
> 
> I guess what I am trying to say is that, if it's easily proven then Skretting would be seeking settlement out of court...
> 
> No idea about the status, but I don't really expect much. A free option I guess.




It's not as easy as that I'm afraid. 

If Skretting are smaller than CSS and push came to shove they could liquidate and start off again tomorrow with new directors and a new name. 

If they are bigger than CSS they will win the case through either a valid case or legal attrition. 

Let it run, but don't get involved in the race.

gg


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## tge oracle (31 August 2017)

It, finally, looks like CSS have realised that building a profitable company takes time 
and an appreciating share price takes more than spin and hollow promises. I am feeling significantly more positive that this company, with it's new management is on the right track. YTK was always a quality product that, if managed and marketed well, would become a popular product within the aquaculture markets. They appear to have learnt from the hard lessons of the past and are progressing toward a responsible , profitable company such as TGR and HUO.
The future is looking bright, as such, I am continuing to accumulate CSS.

Disc- Invested in CSS, and accumulating more. DYOR


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## john5 (12 September 2017)

any opinions on the rally this past week?


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## tge oracle (13 September 2017)

john5 said:


> any opinions on the rally this past week?



Yes, as per my previous thread I was a major buyer, post announcement. CSS is a major portion of my portfolio now and I am a long term investor, not a trader. I have sat through the ups and downs in CSS since it listed when I invested in the float. I actually, feel more confident now about CSS than anytime in the past. Deep value investors, particularly small cap fund managers , are starting to realise the potential for CSS with it's high quality YTK so could be buyers. I also wouldn't rule out a potential suitor, but have no specific information or indication that this could be happening, only that HUO have invested heavily in YTK in Port Stephens, they are smart operators and see value/potential in YTK.
I intend holding tight as I believe CSS will deliver substantial long term returns to investors.

Disc - Invested ( heavily ) in CSS again. Ceased accumulation due to overweight holding.


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## pixel (15 September 2017)

I see a flag pattern developing. Break below 6.5c would raise concern; but if it breaks above 7.2c, I take that as a continuation signal.





Curently, I don't hold - ctta


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## tge oracle (17 October 2017)

It will be interesting to see the details of the Cap Raising on friday but I am of an opinion that this is to further expand grow out capacity to meet increased demand. The new processing facility will drive demand through better handling, processing and stock inventory. I am far more optimistic about the future of CSS than at any other time and see this measure as necessary to propel CSS in to a significant player in the aquaculture space. My intention is to take up full rights and oversubscribe, if available. This will be dependant on the information provided in the documentation.

Disc - Invested in CSS. DYOR.


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## tge oracle (18 October 2017)

Preliminary details hereunder, being conducted by Pattersons.

Aquaculture company Clean Seas Seafood is seeking to raise up to $14.2 million in fresh funds via an institutional placement and rights issue with Patersons Securities.
Clean Seas Seafood shares went into a trading halt on Tuesday morning as its broker pitched the story to potential investors.
The company was seeking to rase up to $14.2 million including a $6 million placement and one-for-10 rights issue to raise up to another $8.2 million.
The offer was priced at 6¢ a share which was a 22.3 per cent discount to the five day volume weighted average price.
Funds raised were to continue the company's turnaround strategy including growth in its Kingfish biomass business and invest in farming and processing facilities according to terms sent to potential investors.


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## fiftyeight (20 April 2018)

I have been undergoing significant style drift recently as I try and find a style which suits my life style. This has led me to investing and having a look at CSS. More of a working example to find what I don’t know.

I chose CSS for some very simple reasons, I like fish, I keep reading about the growing middle class, I like that they are environmentally friendly and I am a contrarian by nature so I like they have had recent large drawdowns. Any and all of these assumptions my prove to be wrong but that is what I hope to find out

It is taking much longer than I would like to get across CSS but this is an ongoing drama with working long hours. Lots of work still to go but below are some of my thoughts when I listened to the CSS Investor update

http://www.cleanseas.com.au/investors/media/

Not sure if it is confirmation bias (I just kinda like the idea of this business) but I like the Michael J Head (CEO). With infinitely more knowledge of business, aquaculture, Kingfish and CSS his thoughts match very well with my gut feel.

I really don’t think growing fish is the main issue for CSS, it is creating markets for their premium brand. After many setbacks CSS seem to have the farming sorted and are now good at it. CSS have a licence of around 9000T and are currently producing 3000T so there is plenty of room for expansion. 

CSS also have the new processing facility with new technology, CSS are currently utilising 25% of the footprint with enough room to expand to process the current 9000T licence. The new transport boxes look great and support the premium look and apparently reduce shipping costs.

CSS are also working on the scale of each individual farm and have lodged an application to increase the size of farms. This could be dangerous when looking at the issues in Tasmania. If environmentalist are against this and start protesting it could be a disaster for the Hiramasa brand. CSS are well aware of this and are engaging the local communities before they go ahead with any expansion. Protestors of this kind are not always local and benefiting from then economic activity though? I am sure CSS are all over this but they need to tread carefully to avoid a Tasmania salmon drama. 

The problem, well not problem lets call it challenge I think is the size of their premium market and how large and how quickly can they grow it.

There are several new entrants to the KingFish market who are selling at a discount however the Hiramasa brand is branded as the premium product with blind taste tests to support this.

No doubt the market is large, but I feel the success hangs on the marketing campaign of the Hiramasa brand and the expansion in to China and to some degree Japan.

Japan for the prestige of selling into premium sushi restaurants and China for size of a new market. Much work is being done in China though David J Head (CEO) mentions there is a lot of work still to do as it is introducing a new fish to the China market. 

At around the 10 min mark Head explains that the marketing role out is about 3 months behind due to a change of the head of sales. Also that it was "bigger job than we thought it would be" with a marketing team is 1 person (poor audio quality). With new Aussie entrants to the market surely there will be a first mover advantage here and the Sales and Marketing team need to smashing down doors to take advantage of this. Not sure why they have a team of 1?

Head also comments that he does not see significant growth opportunities in to Coles and Woolies as Hiramasa is the most expensive fish in Australia. I wonder if the marketing team chase down opportunities to feature on shows like Master Chef and My Kitchen rules? There are some premium frozen fish sold in Europe supermarkets so there is a market though very limited.

So to me it seems CSS have the supply side taken care of and are setup well for expansion IF they can create enough demand.

My understanding of financials is pretty limited so next on the list is to read is, Financial Statement Analysis A Practitioner’s Guide. This will take some time.

So assuming the market is mostly correct given current information, I have made the assumption that current prices are roughly correct and I do like the potential growth story. So using this possibly false assumption I have purchased 50,000 CSS with an average of 0.0634. Depending on how things play out and how my understanding of the company develops I could see this number increasing.


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## galumay (20 April 2018)

My only observation would be that you have bought the narrative before the numbers! A mistake that has cost me dearly in the past!! I own TGR so I have followed CSS as far as basic news goes.

Edit - had a quick look at the numbers, still loss making on pretty skinny margins, at least the losses are reducing at a similar rate to revenues rising, also no debt to speak of which is a plus. If CSS can scale up efficiently then profitibility should come in the next few years and then you can start to work up a valuation for the business.


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## fiftyeight (26 April 2018)

galumay said:


> My only observation would be that you have bought the narrative before the numbers! A mistake that has cost me dearly in the past!! I own TGR so I have followed CSS as far as basic news goes.
> 
> Edit - had a quick look at the numbers, still loss making on pretty skinny margins, at least the losses are reducing at a similar rate to revenues rising, also no debt to speak of which is a plus. If CSS can scale up efficiently then profitibility should come in the next few years and then you can start to work up a valuation for the business.




Thanks for the response galumay, I missed it at first. I will put an alert on this thread.



> So assuming the market is mostly correct given current information, I have made the assumption that current prices are roughly correct



 I have definitely bought the narrative assuming that current financials are baked in to the share price. Very basic and fraught with danger, something I do intend on getting my head around.

I have read the previous few reports and the numbers didnt look to bad to me. Plenty of cash, little debt, H2 should be much stronger and a recent $2.5million grant.

https://wcsecure.weblink.com.au/pdf/CSS/01969769.pdf

They also have the ongoing court case, which may drag out for years but could also add significant $$$.

I used the trial version on this site to have real basic look as well

https://simplywall.st/stocks/au/food-beverage-tobacco/asx-css/clean-seas-seafood-shares



> If CSS can scale up efficiently




I am not sure this is issue, I think they have shown they can grow good fish and process efficiently. I think it is can they scale up while maintaining margins? They can only cut so many costs, then it comes down to increasing the size of the market which will be difficult with a marketing team of 1


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## galumay (26 April 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> .... I think it is can they scale up while maintaining margins? They can only cut so many costs, then it comes down to increasing the size of the market which will be difficult with a marketing team of 1




Thats exactly what I meant by scaling up efficiently!


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## fiftyeight (26 April 2018)

galumay said:


> Thats exactly what I meant by scaling up efficiently!




Ah, I thought you were referring just to the efficiency of their farming


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## McLovin (27 April 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> I have definitely bought the narrative assuming that current financials are baked in to the share price.




I was in and out of this when it went on its sp run. Looks pretty attractive again given where the price has fallen back to. The cap raise was done to grow the fish stock which takes feed, that's expensed not capitalised, so I'd expect it drag on cashflow. The main growing period is over summer so expect cashflow to tick up in q4.


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## fiftyeight (27 April 2018)

McLovin said:


> I was in and out of this when it went on its sp run. Looks pretty attractive again given where the price has fallen back to. The cap raise was done to grow the fish stock which takes feed, that's expensed not capitalised, so I'd expect it drag on cashflow. The main growing period is over summer so expect cashflow to tick up in q4.




You must of got on to this one nice early then. 

I will have a re-read I assumed incorrectly the capital raising for the new facility. Cheers for pointing at that out. I am home next week so will have another read.


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## fiftyeight (8 May 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> I will have a re-read I assumed incorrectly the capital raising for the new facility. Cheers for pointing at that out. I am home next week so will have another read.




Selective memory playing up again. Had this slide saved, must get better at taking notes and reading said notes


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## fiftyeight (8 June 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> At around the 10 min mark Head explains that the marketing role out is about 3 months behind due to a change of the head of sales. Also that it was "bigger job than we thought it would be" with a marketing team is 1 person (poor audio quality). With new Aussie entrants to the market surely there will be a first mover advantage here and the Sales and Marketing team need to smashing down doors to take advantage of this. Not sure why they have a team of 1?




Wow, this one dude must be flat out!!!!


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## greggles (8 June 2018)

Let's see. 1,600 chefs over 16 weeks is 100 chefs per week, which means 20 chefs per day. If he does a normal 8 hour day and has 45 minutes for lunch and 15 minutes for morning tea that leaves 7 hours (420 minutes) for meetings. 20 chefs in 420 minutes is 21 minutes per chef. If you allow 1 minute of change over time (30 seconds walking out the door and 30 seconds walking in) that gives him 20 minutes of quality "one on one" time with each chef.

Busy, but doable.


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## fiftyeight (22 June 2018)

So first time looking at this stuff, CSS has been trending down since Oct 2017. Lately there has been a lot (I think) of insider buying. 

On first pass this seems like a good thing. Or is there so much selling pressure coming in driving price down and the insiders are trying to absorb in an attempt to hold up the price?

Interested to know more experienced members thoughts? Possible cap raising coming and need to protect the SP, it is actually a good buy or it means nothing?


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## galumay (22 June 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> it is actually a good buy or it means nothing?




I believe there are better businesses in the sector, but CSS probably offers more upside (and downside) due to the stage of its development. I am not usually keen on commodity businesses, and live food commodity businesses are a bit like airlines for investors I suspect!

Its been a rough few years for CSS, whether they can transform the business into a profitable and sustainable business is the main question you have to ask yourself.


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## fiftyeight (23 June 2018)

galumay said:


> Its been a rough few years for CSS, whether they can transform the business into a profitable and sustainable business is the main question you have to ask yourself.




So don't try and second guess what others motivations may be just come to my own conclusion.


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## galumay (23 June 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> So don't try and second guess what others motivations may be just come to my own conclusion.




If there has been strong insider buying then that can inform your analysis, I would want a bit more substance than that to make me a buyer of the business!


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## fiftyeight (23 June 2018)

galumay said:


> If there has been strong insider buying then that can inform your analysis, I would want a bit more substance than that to make me a buyer of the business!




Yeah definitely, just another part of the puzzle


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## john5 (2 July 2018)

i agree, there are better businesses than css, but, in general, aquaculture is a good long term play imo, as costs and difficulties rise for sourcing seafood from the wild, the market will increasingly turn to farming for this commodity, seafood is on the healthier range of meat options as world diet trends will eventually drive demand


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## luutzu (4 January 2019)

Who's interested in CSS? You shouldn't 

@ducati916 this is what I reckon a purely speculative ag play is.


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## luutzu (7 January 2019)

Maybe it's just me, it's probably is just me... but I find the way CSS recognise its revenue to be quite... erm... fishy.

For one, can you really recognise as revenue the weight gained your fishes have gained? They're not sold yet, they're stillin their cages so why are they booked as revenue? Or put in a column where when you sum them up they're practically seen as revenue.

And assuming they're all sold and spoken for so it's totally legit to book them as revenue... WHY then are the gain also booked as your current asset?

I mean, if they're sold to someone else, they're no longer yours right?

If you hold this stock, you should really investigate. Its historical performance have been pretty bad for investors. Unless there's some miracle coming up... without continued support from shareholders i.e. continued capital injection... it's a gonner soon.

btw, I don't hold any shorts or have any interest in its competitors etc. 

Community service


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## Ann (7 January 2019)

luutzu said:


> Maybe it's just me, it's probably is just me... but I find the way CSS recognise its revenue to be quite... erm... fishy.
> 
> For one, can you really recognise as revenue the weight gained your fishes have gained? They're not sold yet, they're stillin their cages so why are they booked as revenue? Or put in a column where when you sum them up they're practically seen as revenue.
> 
> ...





Luu, loving those charts! 

I reckon the thing is a gonner now, they just did a 1 for 20 share Consolidation announced 3/12/2018 on the ASX.

*WEALTH WARNING: This stock has been subject to a share Consolidation in the past and may at some time in the future cause you to lose all your invested capital. Better value elsewhere.*


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## luutzu (7 January 2019)

Ann said:


> Luu, loving those charts!
> 
> I reckon the thing is a gonner now, they just did a 1 for 20 share Consolidation announced 3/12/2018 on the ASX.
> 
> *WEALTH WARNING: This stock has been subject to a share Consolidation in the past and may at some time in the future cause you to lose all your invested capital. Better value elsewhere.*




Yea, it's going to be pretty tough. Winter is coming. 

The banks haven't really lent them any money since, from memory, around 2012?  Beside a couple million pegged against their assets for leases... the bankers used to lent tens, twentys million for them to take over the world. Practically none past few years.

So it'll be up to the shareholders and gov't grants and subsidies. Failing that, game over.


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## Ann (7 January 2019)

luutzu said:


> Yea, it's going to be pretty tough. Winter is coming.
> 
> The banks haven't really lent them any money since, from memory, around 2012?  Beside a couple million pegged against their assets for leases... the bankers used to lent tens, twentys million for them to take over the world. Practically none past few years.
> 
> So it'll be up to the shareholders and gov't grants and subsidies. Failing that, game over.




I am guessing they may have some major investor who will hop in now they have done the share Consolidation. Problem is they have vanquished their whole supporting stockholder base, so there will be no-one to hold this stock up into the future. I will be astounded if it doesn't end up flat lining eventually, or just pack up their fishing rods and go away. Interesting to see.


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## luutzu (7 January 2019)

Ann said:


> I am guessing they may have some major investor who will hop in now they have done the share Consolidation. Problem is they have vanquished their whole supporting stockholder base, so there will be no-one to hold this stock up into the future. I will be astounded if it doesn't end up flat lining eventually, or just pack up their fishing rods and go away. Interesting to see.




Yea, that's one very real possibility actually.

The current (and previous) shareholders have invested some $182m into the business. Zero dividends.

At one point CSS was valued at $500m [? I could be wrong as that's just my estimate seeing there's the split at some stage and the consolidation recently]. 

With some 15 years and $180m, not to mention the gov't subsidies... it ought to have some value for some raider who can pick up for next to nothing. Then either sell the parts or start losing their own money if they kept at it as a going concern. 

But yea, lots of people's cash are at risk on this one.


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## fiftyeight (9 January 2019)

There is no doubt that CSS have burnt through a lot of cash.

But what the company is doing now is vastly different to what they were doing previously.

They are not researching/testing/experimenting with Blue Fin Tuna or learning how to grow King Fish.

After an issue with feed which is currently working its way through the courts and may result in a substantial payout,  it looks likes CSS have FINALLY figured out how to grow and process fish efficiently.

So while the numbers are terrible, I am not so sure it is a true reflection of where CSS is now.

CSS are a specy company who have a product they can produce and a plan on how to sell it. I am not convinced on marketing to only high end chefs, but what do I know about trying to get a new fish into Asia.


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## luutzu (9 January 2019)

fiftyeight said:


> There is no doubt that CSS have burnt through a lot of cash.
> 
> But what the company is doing now is vastly different to what they were doing previously.
> 
> ...




Yea, financial statements only show the past and history may not always dictate future performances. 

Need to really know the business and industry etc. to make informed decisions about that future. With years of experience and loads of cash behind them, maybe they will finally get things right. 

Saw a few of their ads. Very pretty. Quality stuff.

But like you, I'm not too sure about marketing directly to what look like high end chefs either. 

I mean, in fancy restaurants... wouldn't the clientele prefer fresh [as opposed to frozen] and wild catch, as opposed to caged.. fish?

And assuming those 40% who express interest in taking orders. Wouldn't be cheap to ship a box or two per restaurant. 

Do they also have some sort of middle man? Or are they selling direct to the restaurants and fish market?


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## Dona Ferentes (5 January 2021)

back of the napkin estimates : that things could have got a lot worse. China boycott and Covid lockdowns/ trade disruptions?


_ Sales volumes rebound significantly as restaurants reopen and new channels are developed_
_ COVID lockdowns continue to intermittently impact sales in specific markets _
_ Production issue at Boston Bay farm location _
_ Renewal of bank facility confirms funding for working capital and infrastructure investments _
_Despite ongoing disruption in the food service channel, Clean Seas achieved sales of 1,413t in H1 FY21, versus 1,016t in H2 FY20, and 1,406t in H1 FY20. This is a good outcome in a highly disrupted global market_. ... has picked up a US partnership for retail distribution.


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