# What is the best property book to read?



## Realist (7 April 2007)

I want a book that is written by someone smart enough to acknowledge there are times when renting is wiser than buying. Someone who will admit there are times when properties go down in value especially when indexed against the CPI or current interest rates. And admit sometimes people lose money on property especially after all expenses like rates, taxes, agent fees, time, repairs, improvements, etc are taken into account. And often a single person is best sharing accomodation and investing inthe sharemarket as over the long term returns are higher and expenses are lower.

Someone smart enough to value a house taking into account factors like current interest rates, current rents, and tax implications as well as area, location, etc.


Not just a book written by some Simpleton who bought a few old properties, spent hours doing them up then made a bit of money from a surprise property boom.  I admire guys like Warren Buffet who are worth US$50 Biillion - I have no interest in learning from an Aussie battler who has a few properties in the outback and writes a book "How I bought 50 properties in 50 weeks" who really if they liquidated everything now could not even buy a good house in Perth.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Prospector (7 April 2007)

hey Realist
Try reading some of Jan Somers books, as well as their forum:  somersoft.com then click on the forums link.  You will find some familiar names there    (not mine though coz i use a different one! )


----------



## tech/a (7 April 2007)

Would be an interesting book.
What do you think it would reveal?

There are  people here in Adelaide who come to mind but neither have written a book.

Gordon Pickard---Director/Owner of Fairmont Homes,Hallet Concrete,Land SA,owner of the Adelaide Soccer Club,If he wrote a book would be an interesting read.

The second Brett Williams (who is a friend).Started as a Realestate salesman.
Bought Barrett and Barrett. Then sold half to Brock (Not Peter) and thus foundered Brock Barrett. Both holding Commercial and Domestic property.
Has now sold all to Brock after many years of partnership.

Both have been around since the 70s and both have amassed enormous fortunes in Real Estate and business over those years.
Neither had silver spoons.


----------



## Realist (7 April 2007)

Prospector said:


> hey Realist
> Try reading some of Jan Somers books, as well as their forum:  somersoft.com then click on the forums link.  You will find some familiar names there    (not mine though coz i use a different one! )




I had a look and to me most of what is posted is utter bollocks.

Then again the same could be said about here, and every other forum...   

Some idiot mortgage broker was predicting rises for the upcoming year as if it was already decided.


----------



## Mousie (7 April 2007)

Realist said:


> I had a look and to me most of what is posted is utter bollocks.
> 
> Then again the same could be said about here, and every other forum...
> 
> Some idiot mortgage broker was predicting rises for the upcoming year as if it was already decided.




Hey take it easy Realist, there're so many things out there I consider junk too...at least if you don't like the suggestions don't throw it back in their face will ya...

FYI I'm not getting into the property market anytime soon, way way overpriced, happy to rent


----------



## Realist (7 April 2007)

Fair enough Mousie. I did not want to offend anyone.  I did offset my comment by highlighting the fact there is alot of bollocks posted on every forum.

Even this great forum!!!  

You need to sift through the rubble to find the treasures as with most things.

Although if you click on the search button and find all posts by 'realist' - you'll do fine!


----------



## Kimosabi (7 April 2007)

I doubt your going to find it, yet...

After the inevitable bust in housing and probable financial crises that follows, the new fad will be living within ones means, getting some savings in the bank, and having a responsible level of debt.

This will last for about 3-5 years and then everyone will go stupid again.


----------



## Mousie (7 April 2007)

Realist said:


> You need to sift through the rubble to find the treasures as with most things.
> 
> Although if you click on the search button and find all posts by 'realist' - you'll do fine!




You're all right there...I noted you started some great threads, to be honest  And though I'm fairly new here as you might discover, I do have an idea now whose posts I'd read and whose I'd rather not.



Kimosabi said:


> This will last for about 3-5 years and then everyone will go stupid again.




Just had to chuckle at that last bit


----------



## Prospector (7 April 2007)

Well Realist, the 'bollocks' property investment accountants on that forum saved me $11,000 in tax this year from building depreciation provisions that even my accountant wasnt aware of.

From the post above, you obviously consider that your posts are above most others on this forum, but when your original post asks for help and you 'bollock' the helpers, well, I dont have the time for that kind of thing.

So, each to his own (mistakes) and dont expect any more info from me in future!


----------



## Realist (7 April 2007)

Haha, I was joking about my posts being so great. (I did wink...) I post alot of crap myself.

All I said was there was alot of bollocks there on that forum....    And I said although that is the case with most forums.

Jees - you are sensitive today...


----------



## robots (7 April 2007)

hello,

frank lowy

his returns cream buffett, and guess what he is into property, but he cant be he is on the ASX

what are they holding property for if its so ordinary

thankyou

robots


----------



## investforwealth (7 April 2007)

I think your best bet would be to go to your local library and check out a few different books to find one that suits your needs.  You can compare the views of a number of authors without spending a cent.

I really like Alan Kohler's, _"Making money: Alan Kohler's guide for the independent investor"_ which covers a wide range of topics including shares and property, and may well answer most of your questions.

Another book that may be useful to you is Jimmy Thomson's, _"The ultimate guide to buying & renting houses & apartments"_.  It's a little simplistic, but does cover a lot of stuff that the majority of property books ignore.

Don't forget, if you're looking to buy books on property or shares, or any other investment topics, you can buy them through the Aussie Stock Forums bookstore.  I've compared prices on books from a lot of sources, and I can honestly say that these are the cheapest books you'll find.  The service is second to none and they offer even greater discounts if you order 3 or more books at once.  I'm not affiliated with ASF or Moneybags in any way other than as a very satisifed customer.


----------



## Realist (7 April 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> frank lowy
> 
> ...




Property is not ordinary, and is usually a great investment.

However there are times when it is unwise to buy property.

I like Frank Lowy - I have alot of Westfield shares.

Buffet could buy Lowy 20 times over though.


----------



## value investor (7 April 2007)

Realist said:


> I want a book that is written by someone smart enough to acknowledge there are times when renting is wiser than buying. Someone who will admit there are times when properties go down in value especially when indexed against the CPI or current interest rates. And admit sometimes people lose money on property especially after all expenses like rates, taxes, agent fees, time, repairs, improvements, etc are taken into account. And often a single person is best sharing accomodation and investing inthe sharemarket as over the long term returns are higher and expenses are lower.




If you ask me it sounds like you understand enough that you do not need a book to tell you what you already know. You just need patience and both the stockmarket and realestate market will start to make sense again. It is hard however I think at the moment the best investment is the one you don't make. This is only my opinion and who knows, maybe the stockmarket will finally touch the sky and housing prices will go up to 20 times what the average person earns per annum, in the next 5 years.


----------



## robots (7 April 2007)

hello,

I said lowy's performance exceeds berkshire, not who has the most money

we have these guys in our own backyard

how many shares in berkshire do you own? if so great wouldnt you be loaded

there are many pro property mum's & dad's who have missed out on millions (literally) from being ignorant of the share market

I just think property and in particular your residence can be a very good passive investment anytime

how many people picked the share boom and loaded up in 2000 and 2001 with stocks? would that be considered an unwise time to buy

thankyou

robots


----------



## Realist (7 April 2007)

robots said:


> I said lowy's performance exceeds berkshire, not who has the most money




You are correct.

But turning $1 into $2 is alot easier than turning $100 Billion into $200 Billion.

Buffett is the greatest investor of all time. Others will have quicker returns over certain periods though.


Lowy is tremedous though, I totally agree. And he did it in Australia.



> how many people picked the share boom and loaded up in 2000 and 2001 with stocks? would that be considered an unwise time to buy




Of course not.

But 2003 was obvious (to me anyway) a very poor time to buy property in Sydney.

Was good to buy in Perth then though.

We're edging back to the point where it is wise to buy in Sydney again I think. The main reason is rents have skyrocketed and houses have come down a little evening it up.


----------



## Realist (7 April 2007)

value investor said:


> If you ask me it sounds like you understand enough that you do not need a book to tell you what you already know. You just need patience and both the stockmarket and realestate market will start to make sense again. It is hard however I think at the moment the best investment is the one you don't make. This is only my opinion and who knows, maybe the stockmarket will finally touch the sky and housing prices will go up to 20 times what the average person earns per annum, in the next 5 years.




I agree.

Houses can't go up much more compared to what people earn though.  You can only borrow so much afterall.

Although saying that, we may see the introduction of the 50 year mortgage.

Or the 30 year interest only mortgage.

Or god forbid the 100 year mortgage where you grandkids will pay the remainder off.


----------



## GreatPig (7 April 2007)

Prospector said:
			
		

> You will find some familiar names there (not mine though coz i use a different one!)



Hmm... so we have to guess?

GP


----------



## Kimosabi (7 April 2007)

Realist said:


> I agree.
> 
> Houses can't go up much more compared to what people earn though. You can only borrow so much afterall.
> 
> ...




You forgot the multi-generational Mortgages like they have in Japan


----------



## wayneL (7 April 2007)

Someone should point out the difference between Lowy and the individual investor in residential property.

Quantum difference. To use the Lowy argument to justify buying and overpriced sh!thole in some grim suburb is drawing the longest bow I've ever seen.

On another point, I don't think anyone is saying property is a poor investment. It's a great investment.

But like any investment, it should be at value and this is the crux of the bear argument; property is very poor value at this time. It's a bit like buying NAB right now for $100 a share. Wait long enough and it will be worth $100, but it's not worth it now.

Like realist, I'd love to see a book that recognizes this. But the truth is that books only sell in booms when people want to buy at any cost. In busts, no-one is interested.

Marketing reality.


----------



## numbercruncher (7 April 2007)

Kimosabi said:


> You forgot the multi-generational Mortgages like they have in Japan




Yes and once they can longer borrow from the next Generation, they'll borrow from the next Centuary's generation, enslave em for eternity! Just print more and lend more, Fiat currency aint no scam, it controls the masses!


----------



## Temjin (8 April 2007)

Have to add that like Realist, I am looking for a similar, no-bull**** book on real estate. But also agree with wayneL that it is not realistic to expect a "realistic" book on investing in real estate during booming times. 

However, having read quite a number of trading and other investment books already, my experiences tell me it is absolutely important to keep an open mind on all info and still remain skeptical at them until they can be proven otherwise. Just keep your knowledge up to date on the big picture and learn the bits and pieces from investing real estate. 

For example, where to find the best growth spot, highest yield, taxation, managing a property, etc. Then use your own judgement to see if it is worth it to pursue such investment opportunity over investing in the share market. 

Personally, I'd rather spend more time and effort in the share/future market than real estate RIGHT NOW for reasons I'm sure alot of ppls here are aware of already. Though I would keep an open mind on real estate in the future when it becomes more attractive again. So yep, can't wait for the next crash though.


----------



## nizar (9 April 2007)

Temjin said:


> Though I would keep an open mind on real estate in the future when it becomes more attractive again. So yep, can't wait for the next crash though.




When was real estate last attractive?


----------



## insider (9 April 2007)

Temjin said:


> Have to add that like Realist, I am looking for a similar, no-bull**** book on real estate. But also agree with wayneL that it is not realistic to expect a "realistic" book on investing in real estate during booming times.
> 
> However, having read quite a number of trading and other investment books already, my experiences tell me it is absolutely important to keep an open mind on all info and still remain skeptical at them until they can be proven otherwise. Just keep your knowledge up to date on the big picture and learn the bits and pieces from investing real estate.
> 
> ...




If interest rates climb more and more... we will see that crash... It will happen


----------



## insider (9 April 2007)

Check the Aussie Stock Forums online book Store


----------



## Kimosabi (9 April 2007)

insider said:


> If interest rates climb more and more... we will see that crash... It will happen




Interest Rates aren't going to crash Australian Property, institutions not wanting to buy the CDO's (Collateralised Debt Obligations - Mortgage Debt Investments/Securities) after seeing what is happening in the US is going to kill property.

If the Mortgage companies can't get the Money they need to lend out for Mortgages, nobody is going to get a loan, no matter how good their credit is, this is caused a Credit Crunch.


----------



## trading_rookie (10 April 2007)

I'd keep away from Margaret Lomas then...having read one of her books, you can say she bags out share investing a fair bit 



> Lowy is tremedous though, I totally agree. And he did it in Australia.




Maybe...but even Westfields Group has come to the fruition that to make more money they need to expand overseas. 

Did they buy or lease the ground floors in the twin towers, NY?. They're also/or already have opened up a new shopping complex in London.


----------



## robots (10 April 2007)

Kimosabi said:


> If the Mortgage companies can't get the Money they need to lend out for Mortgages, *nobody is going to get a loan, no matter how good their credit is, **this is caused a Credit Crunch.*




hello,

you wonder why I address what is written, come on you serious?

thankyou

robots


----------



## Temjin (10 April 2007)

nizar said:


> When was real estate last attractive?




The last boom perhaps?  The Risk/Return was greater than the share market back then, at least from a normal investment point of view. It's not now, or just tougher, so I'm staying away.


----------

