# Multiculturalism Doesn't Work - Merkel



## wayneL (17 October 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451



> Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.
> 
> In a speech in Potsdam, she said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work.
> 
> Mrs Merkel's comments come amid recent outpourings of strong anti-immigrant feeling from mainstream politicians.




IMO It has it's problems, but I think there are positives. My opinion is that it should be limited, but don't ask me how.

Discuss


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## bellenuit (17 October 2010)

wayneL said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I concur. Multiculturalism has a lot to offer, but it shouldn't be an all or nothing proposition. There are aspects of everyone's culture that have no place in Australia or in any modern society and should be left behind. But there are aspects of other cultures that enrich us all and we will be the better for embracing them. 

However, we have core values that should not be compromised unless the alternatives can be shown to be better. And we shouldn't be castigated or maligned or tagged as racists for standing up for those values.


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## JTLP (17 October 2010)

wayneL said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm a big fan of Multiculturalism - see Melbourne and how vibrant, lovely and diverse the city is - teeming with different cultures and really bringing the city a soul.

But in Europe I can understand how the concept doesn' work. There are far too many poor Eastern European countries who will flee to wealthier EU nations to take advantage of the systems/governments there. 

Australia is so far removed from the rest of the world (geographically) that the only way to get here is via boat (limited numbers/extremely risky) or by air (you're not doing too bad to afford an airfare from Europe to Australia!). This positioning has really benefitted us as mentioned before; immigrants can easily set up and bring their culture to our society; and not appear to be leaching off our tax dollars or bringing down our society


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## Surly (17 October 2010)

We definitely do not need multiculturalism as in many cultures existing and compartmentalised in their own areas, speaking their own language and trying to recreate what they left behind.

We need uniculturalism being a blend of people from different countries spread throughout out cities and towns, speaking english as their first language and adding the good from and leaving the bad in the country they came from.

cheers
Surly


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## sails (17 October 2010)

Surly said:


> We definitely do not need multiculturalism as in many cultures existing and compartmentalised in their own areas, speaking their own language and trying to recreate what they left behind.
> 
> We need uniculturalism being a blend of people from different countries spread throughout out cities and towns, speaking english as their first language and adding the good from and leaving the bad in the country they came from.
> 
> ...




Agree Surly - you have worded that well...

But how that can be achieved, I don't know.  Seems that some come to this country with no intention of leaving the bad behind.  It's a shame as they supposedly come here for a better life.


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## Mofra (18 October 2010)

sails said:


> But how that can be achieved, I don't know.  Seems that some come to this country with no intention of leaving the bad behind.  It's a shame as they supposedly come here for a better life.



It's simply a matter of comfort for the existing population - I'm not sure if "multiculturalism" is the right word in many respects anyway, as after any group of people has been in Australia for 2-3 generations not all traditional aspects of the "old life' that are kept, and adaptations to the "Australian Way" are well entrenched amongst those who grew up here.

In the early 20th century, it was believed the Irish were just a violent bunch of drunks who couldn't assimilate into "normal" society. 

We had the post war boom in European immigration, and the associated stereotypes/stigmas.

The post Vietnam War immigration from Vietnam and other nearby Asian countries, we've now into generation 2 or 3 and assimilation is beginning.

We now have the stigma attached to African and Middle Eastern immigrants. It will simply take time.


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## Sdajii (18 October 2010)

Surly said:


> We definitely do not need multiculturalism as in many cultures existing and compartmentalised in their own areas, speaking their own language and trying to recreate what they left behind.
> 
> We need uniculturalism being a blend of people from different countries spread throughout out cities and towns, speaking english as their first language and adding the good from and leaving the bad in the country they came from.
> 
> ...




That was quite well said.

Unfortunately it doesn't usually happen that way. Australia is an interesting experiment on multiculturalism, I think we're getting answers... undoubtedly there is good and bad.


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## nukz (18 October 2010)

It sounds like everybody who has replied in this thread so far has taken the soft approach which is pretty standard in these topics because of fear of being labelled as racist. 

Melbourne has had a huge population boom in the past couple of years but it has created areas of Melbourne that are no-go zones because you almost have to speak another language to get around. 

eg. box hill (massive Chinese population) along with rest of the eastern suburbs
point cook (recently named point Mumbai in the news because of its massive Indian population)

That being said i believe it can work but there has to be effort made on both sides, if i goto live in India i cannot expect to be able to get a job and everything else without speaking a word of Hindi.


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## disarray (18 October 2010)

multiracial is not the same as multicultural.

a country must have one "culture", enshrined as one agreed upon set of standards, ethics and principles, or it is impossible to forge and maintain a social compact.

you can wear whatever clothes you want, eat whatever food you fancy and bang your head on the ground worshipping whatever spaghetti monster in the sky you like, but the core principles of society cannot be negotiable. if you don't like them, gtfo.

the main problem is that western society hasn't really enshrined any principles so we don't know what we really stand for. this also the reason idiots screaming "racist" for the last 10 years have effectively stifled any debate about how we want our society to be.

outside the united states constitution and bill of rights the west doesn't really know what its ideals and principles are, outside of some amorphous "do what feels good" hippy crap.

it's a shame it has come to this because we are seeing a strong resurgence in the extreme right in recent european elections, when if people were allowed to speak their minds (without totalitarian thought police "hate speech" legislation stomping on dissent) or if politicians actually listened to popular opinion (where the majority of populations have expressed opposition to multiculturalism for more than a decade) there wouldn't be a need to vote in extreme right wingers who have within their ranks people who want to fire up the ovens again.

tolerance is a two way street. that seems to have been forgotten.


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## DB008 (19 October 2010)

disarray said:


> multiracial is not the same as multicultural.
> 
> a country must have one "culture", enshrined as one agreed upon set of standards, ethics and principles, or it is impossible to forge and maintain a social compact.
> 
> ...




Great post!


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## Wysiwyg (24 October 2010)

disarray said:


> you can wear whatever clothes you want, eat whatever food you fancy and bang your head on the ground worshipping whatever spaghetti monster in the sky you like, but the core principles of society cannot be negotiable. if you don't like them, gtfo.



 Yes that is the general consensus among Aussies. (whoever Aussie is :walker


> the main problem is that western society hasn't really enshrined any principles so we don't know what we really stand for.



Well in Australia (a western society) there is plenty of principles we silently agree on. For example D.H.'s are generally segregated until their forehead protrusion has reduced and/or completely disappeared. If the protrusion gains in size they inevitably become Nevilles (Neville No Friends) which in turn leads them to question the contents of their own mind. Enlightenment brings forth a better human being and the former D.H. will be further encouraged as people begin relating to them again. Normality can then unfold as a common state of being.  


> outside the united states constitution and bill of rights the west doesn't really know what its ideals and principles are, outside of some amorphous "do what feels good" hippy crap.



Oh I think that era is well and truly buried. Mellow has been replaced by more potent mind alterations. Beer and joints are so last century.



> tolerance is a two way street. that seems to have been forgotten.



Well not really. Usually one entity is intolerant of another's words or actions.  

The answer is simple :- DO NOT infringe on other people's lives and treat other people with respect.

P.s. any above content should not be taken personally and is merely interest in topic.


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## robots (24 October 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> *For example D.H.'s are generally segregated until their forehead protrusion has reduced and/or completely disappeared. If the protrusion gains in size they inevitably become Nevilles (Neville No Friends) which in turn leads them to question the contents of their own mind. Enlightenment brings forth a better human being and the former D.H. will be further encouraged as people begin relating to them again. Normality can then unfold as a common state of being*.
> 
> 
> The answer is simple :- DO NOT infringe on other people's lives and treat other people with respect.




hello,

hehehehehehehehehehehehe

thankyou
professor robots


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## Julia (24 October 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Well in Australia (a western society) there is plenty of principles we silently agree on. For example D.H.'s are generally segregated until their forehead protrusion has reduced and/or completely disappeared. If the protrusion gains in size they inevitably become Nevilles (Neville No Friends) which in turn leads them to question the contents of their own mind. Enlightenment brings forth a better human being and the former D.H. will be further encouraged as people begin relating to them again. Normality can then unfold as a common state of being.



The fault may be entirely mine, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
Could you kindly offer a translation which is comprehensible by less evolved human beings?


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## Wysiwyg (24 October 2010)

Julia said:


> The fault may be entirely mine, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
> Could you kindly offer a translation which is comprehensible by less evolved human beings?



 Sorry Julia but there is no translation. I suggest if you don't get it then forget it.


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## Bat_Ears (28 October 2010)

Of course multiculturalism doesn't work. Different cultures can't even live in different countries without going to war. Putting different cultures together in one country just creates the same antagonistic feeling, except now everyone smiles and pretends its ok for fear of being labelled a racist (which is the modern heretic).

I suspect I am going to be severely attacked for stating this obvious truth, which all of you intuitively know, though none of you will admit (especially to yourselves).

EDIT: Of course, stating that multiculturalism doesn't work is not saying anything about other races, but most people can't seem to grasp the difference between the two.


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## roland (28 October 2010)

Multiculturalism will never work when the people that are relocating are doing so for reasons of using the host location for a safe and remote platform to continue airing their grievances against the situations they were in before.

Also people that are in financial hardships looking for enhanced welfare support in other countries will always be met with negative feelings.


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## Tink (29 October 2010)

Mofra said:


> It's simply a matter of comfort for the existing population - I'm not sure if "multiculturalism" is the right word in many respects anyway, as after any group of people has been in Australia for 2-3 generations not all traditional aspects of the "old life' that are kept, and adaptations to the "Australian Way" are well entrenched amongst those who grew up here.
> 
> In the early 20th century, it was believed the Irish were just a violent bunch of drunks who couldn't assimilate into "normal" society.
> 
> ...




Good post Mofra, I agree.

Our children grow up with the changes, just as we did as kids and didnt know any different 

Its the older ones that find it hard with any change


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## roland (29 October 2010)

I say, let's give Multiculturalism more of a go. Being a true multicultural society we will need to add the following public holidays:

JANUARY
    1
          Mary, Mother of God - Catholic Christian
          Feast of St Basil - Orthodox Christian
          Gantan-sai (New Years) - Shinto
    3
          Vasant Panchami - Hindu
    5
          Twelfth Night - Christian
          Guru Gobindh Singh birthday - Sikh
    6
          Epiphany - Christian
          Nativity of Christ - Armenian Christian
          Feast of the Theophany - Orthodox Christian
          Dia de los Reyes - Christian
    7
          Nativity of Christ - Orthodox Christian
          Ashura - Islam
    11
          Mahayana New Year (3 days)  - Buddhist
          Baptism of Lord Jesus - Christian
    13
          Maghi - Sikh
    17
          Blessing of the Animals - Hispanic Christian
    18
          World Religion Day - Baha'i
          Week of Prayer for Christian Unity begins - Christian
    19
          Timkat - Ethiopian Orthodox Christian
    25
          Conversion of St. Paul - Christian
    26
          Chinese New Year - Confucian/Daoist/Buddhist


FEBRUARY

    1
          Four Chaplains Sunday - Interfaith USA
    2
          Candlemas - Christian
          Presentation of Christ in the Temple - Anglican Christian
          Imbolc - Wicca Northern hemisphere
          Lughnassad - Wicca Southern hemisphere
    3
          Setsubun sai - Shinto
    8
          Triodion begins - Orthodox Christian
    9
          Tu B'shvat - Jewish
    14
          Saint Valentine's Day - Christian
    15
          Nirvana Day - Buddhism
    21
          Saturday of Souls - Orthodox Christian
    22
          Transfiguration Sunday - Christian
          Meatfare Sunday - Orthodox Christian
    23
          Maha Shivaratri - Hindu
    24
          Saint Matthew's Day - Christian
          Shrove Tuesday - Christian
    25
          Ash Wednesday - Lent begins - Christian
    26
          Intercalary Days begin - Baha'i

MARCH 

    1
          Intercalary Days conclude - Baha'i
          Cheesefare Sunday - Orthodox Christian
          Saint David of Wales - Christian
    2
          Lent begins - Clean Monday  - Orthodox Christian
    8
          Orthodox Sunday - Orthodox Christian
    9
          Mawlid an Nabi  - Islam
    10
          Purim - Jewish
    11
          Holi - Hindu
          Hola Mohala - Sikh
    13
          L. Ron Hubbard birthday - Scientology
    17
          St Patrick's Day - Christian
    21  Equinox 
          Ostara  - Wicca - Northern Hemisphere
          Mabon  - Wicca - Southern Hemisphere
          Norouz (New Year) - Persian/Zoroastrian
          Naw Ruz (New Year) - Baha'i 
    25
          Annunciation of Virgin Mary - Christian
    26
          Khordad Sal (Birth of Prophet Zaranhushtra) Zoroastrian
    27
          New Year - Hindu
    29
          Passion Sunday - Christian

APRIL

    3
          Ramanavami  - Hindu
    5
          Palm Sunday - Christian
    7
          Mahavir Jayanti  - Jain
    9-10   (9-16 in full) 
          Pesach (Passover) first two days   - Jewish
    9-12
          Theravadin New Year - Buddhist
    9
          Lord's Evening Meal - Jehovah's Witness Christian
          Maundy Thursday - Christian
          Hanuman Jayanti - Hindu
    10
          Good Friday - Christian
    11
          Black Saturday - Christian
    12
          Easter - Christian
          Palm Sunday - Orthodox Christian
    13
          Easter Monday Christian
    14
          Baisakhi - Sikh
    15-16
          Pesach (Passover) final two days  - Jewish
    11
          Lazarus Saturday - Orthodox Christian
    17
          Holy Friday - Orthodox Christian
    19
          Easter/Pascha - Orthodox Christian
    21
          Yom HaSho'ah - Jewish
          First Day of Ridvan - Baha'i
    23
          Saint George's Day - Christian
    29
          Yom Ha'Atzmaut - Jewish
          Ninth Day of Ridvan - Baha'i
    30
          St. James the Great Day - Orthodox Christian

MAY

    1
          Beltane - Wicca Northern hemisphere
          Samhain - Wicca Southern hemisphere
    2
          Twelfth Day of Ridvan - Baha'i
    7
          National Day of Prayer (USA) - Interfaith
    9
          Buddha Day - Visakha Puja - Vesak  - Buddhist
    12
          Lag B'Omer - Jewish
    21
          Ascension of Jesus - Christian
    23
          Declaration of the Bab  - Baha'i
    28
          Ascension of Jesus - Orthodox Christian
    29-30
          Shavuot - Jewish
    29
          Ascension of Baha'u'llah - Baha'i
    31
          Pentecost - Christian

JUNE

   7
          Trinity - Christian
          Pentecost - Orthodox Christian
   11
          Corpus Christi -  Catholic Christian
   9
          Saint Columba of Iona - Celtic Christian
   14
          All Saints - Orthodox Christian
   16
          Guru Arjan Dev Martyrdom - Sikh
   19
          Sacred Heart of Jesus - Catholic Christian
          New Church Day - Swedenborgian Christian
    21 Solstice
          Litha - Wicca Northern Hemisphere
          Yule - Wicca Southern Hemisphere
          First Nations Day - Canadian Native People
    24
          Saint John the Baptist Birth - Christian
    29
          Saints Peter and Paul - Christian

JULY

    7
          Asalha Puja Day  Buddhist
    9
          Martyrdom of the Bab - Baha'i
    11
          St Benedict Day - Catholic Christian
    13
          Ulambana (Obon)  Buddhist
    15
          Saint Vladimir's Day - Christian
    19
          Lailat al Miraj  - Islam
    23
          Haile Selassi I birthday - Rastafari
    24
          Pioneer Day- Mormon Christian
    25
          St. James the Great Day - Christian
    30
          Tisha B'Av  - Jewish


AUGUST

    1
          Lammas - Christian
          Fast Day in honor of Holy Mother of Jesus - Orthodox Christian
    2
          Lughnassad - Wicca Northern hemisphere
          Imbolc - Wicca Southern hemisphere
    5
          Raksha Bandhan - Hindu
          Lailat al Bara'ah - Islam
    6
          Transfiguration of the Lord - Orthodox Christian
    14
          Krishna Janmashtami - Hindu
    15
          Assumption of Blessed Virgin Mary - Catholic Christian
          Dormition of the Theotokos - Orthodox Christian
    17
          Paryushana - Jain
    22
          Ramadan begins  - Islam
    23
          Ganesha Chaturthi - Hindu

    29
          Beheading of John the Baptist - Christian


SEPTEMBER

    1
          Ecclesiastical Year begins - Orthodox Christian
    8
          Nativity of Mary - Christian
    14
          Elevation of the Life Giving Cross - Christian
    16
          Lailat al Kadr  - Islam
    19-20
          Rosh Hashanah - Jewish
    19-27
          Navaratri - Hindu
    20
          Eid al Fitr - Ramadan ends - Islam 
    22 Equinox
          Mabon - Wicca Northern Hemisphere
          Ostara - Wicca Southern Hemisphere
    27
          Meskel - Ethiopian/Eritrean Orthodox Christian
    28
          Yom Kippur - Jewish
          Dasera  - Hindu
    29
          Michael and All Angels - Christian


OCTOBER

     3-9 (3-4 Primary Obligation Days)
          Sukkot - Jewish
     4
          St Francis Day - Catholic Christian
    10
          Shemini Atzeret - Jewish
    11
          Simchat Torah - Jewish
    12
          Thanksgiving - Interfaith - Canada
    17
          Diwali (Deepavali) - Hindu, Jain
    20
          Installation of Scriptures as Guru Granth - Sikh
          Birth of the Bab - Baha'i
    25
          Reformation Day - Protestant Christian
    28
          Milvian Bridge Day - Christian
    31
          All Hallows Eve - Christian


NOVEMBER

    1
          All Saints' Day - Christian
          Samhain - Wicca Northern hemisphere
          Beltane - Wicca Southern hemisphere
    2
          All Souls' Day - Catholic Christian
          Guru Nanak Dev Sahib birthday Sikh
    12
          Birth of Baha'u'llah - Baha'i
    15
          Nativity Fast begins (through Dec 24) - Orthodox Christian
    22
          Christ the King - Christian
    24
          Guru Tegh Bahadur Martyrdom - Sikh
    25-28
          Hajj - Islam
    26
          Thanksgiving - Interfaith - USA
          Day of Covenant - Baha'i
          Waqf al Arafa - Hajj Day - Islam
    27
          Eid al Adha  - Islam
    28
          Ascension of 'Abdu'l-Baha  Baha'i
    29
          First Sunday of Advent - Christian
    30
          Saint Andrew's Day - Christian

DECEMBER

    6
          Saint Nicholas Day - Christian
    8
          Bodhi Day  (Rohatsu) - Buddhism
          Immaculate Conception - Catholic Christian
    12
          Feast day - Our Lady of Guadalupe - Catholic Christian
          Advent Fast begins - Orthodox Christian
    12-19
          Hanukkah - Jewish
    16-Dec 25
          Posadas Navidenas - Christian
    18
          Hijra - New Year - Islam
    21 Solstice
          Yule - Christian
          Yule - Wicca  northern hemisphere
          Litha - Wicca  southern hemisphere
     25
          Christmas - Christian
    26
          Zarathosht Diso (Death of Prophet Zarathushtra  - Zoroastrian
    27
          Feast of the Holy Family - Catholic Christian
          Ashura - Islam
    28
          Holy Innocents - Christian
    31
          Watch Night - Christian


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## sails (12 November 2010)

I attended a school function today and one of the classes were up on the stage.  I found it quite sad that a few of the students did not participate in the singing our national anthem.  I asked my grandaughter later if they just didn't know the words or were they not allowed to participate.  She said they are not allowed.

I mean, this is "Advance Australia Fair".  Not a religious song or ceremony.  There would be a good chance these same families would be receiving government handouts and yet do not seem to take any pride in their new country.

If any of us wanted to take up citizenship in their countries, we would be expected to fit in and take pride in our new country.

Personally, I found it rather disturbing to watch.  How do others feel about this sort of thing?


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## roland (12 November 2010)

sails said:


> I attended a school function today and one of the classes were up on the stage.  I found it quite sad that a few of the students did not participate in the singing our national anthem.  I asked my grandaughter later if they just didn't know the words or were they not allowed to participate.  She said they are not allowed.
> 
> I mean, this is "Advance Australia Fair".  Not a religious song or ceremony.  There would be a good chance these same families would be receiving government handouts and yet do not seem to take any pride in their new country.
> 
> ...




When I was a kid in school the National Anthem was God Save the Queen. We used to have to sing this in assembly every Wednesday, and at other occassions. I don't recall anyone ever not actually trying to make an attempt, even all the spiks, wogs, chinks and whatever names were used to call the "not quite Australian inhabitants of the school at the time.

I actually don't know the words to Advance Australia Fair, so I would have trouble singing the anthem as well. Maybe if we had of gone for Waltzing Matilda there would be more of an uptake.


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## Bill M (13 November 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Well not really. Usually one entity is intolerant of another's words or actions.
> 
> The answer is simple :- DO NOT infringe on other people's lives and treat other people with respect.




Well said, this is the one of the bigest failures of the human race. If we only respected each other then we probably wouldn't need to discuss this and the world would be a much better place.


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## alphaman (13 November 2010)

On ASF I don't get the impression that Labors and Liberals/Nationals work, but so what, do we change to a uni-party system? 

Even family members do not necessarily share the same set of so-called core principles.


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## sails (13 November 2010)

roland said:


> When I was a kid in school the National Anthem was God Save the Queen. We used to have to sing this in assembly every Wednesday, and at other occassions. I don't recall anyone ever not actually trying to make an attempt, even all the spiks, wogs, chinks and whatever names were used to call the "not quite Australian inhabitants of the school at the time.
> 
> I actually don't know the words to Advance Australia Fair, so I would have trouble singing the anthem as well. Maybe if we had of gone for Waltzing Matilda there would be more of an uptake.




Sorry - should have been more specific.  These are last term, Grade 5 students - not beginners. A couple of the kids who didn't participate appeared very bright and had no trouble speaking their lines with clarity and fluency.  And their classmates knew all the words of the anthem which they sang with pride and gusto. As these other few didn't even attempt the easy parts, it did appear that it was a decision not to sing the Anthem.  

I can understand the reluctance for some not to sing "God save the Queen" if they don't believe in God, but "Advance Australia Fair" is nothing but pride in Australia, IMO.  Here are the words of the official anthem - taken from http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/symbols/docs/anthem_words.pdf

AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil;
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in nature’s gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history’s page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We’ll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who’ve come across the seas
We’ve boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.

According to this site: http://www.imagesaustralia.com/australiannationalanthem.htm,  verses 2,4 and 5 were taken out to reflect Australia's present multi-cultural population.  So I do have a lot of trouble understanding why children would not be allowed to participate in a song of pride in the country where they have chosen to live.

Here is the official government page for info on the anthem:  http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/symbols/anthem.cfm

I am one of those people who feel compassion for those in genuine need, however, don't like to see people taking advantage of kindness and it does seem like some of those coming to Australia do not really appreciate it..


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## Julia (13 November 2010)

Sails, when you say the children were not allowed to participate in the song, who forbade them?   Their parents?
I'm sure it wouldn't have been the school?

At Grade 5 those children should be well on the way to being able to decide something like this for themselves.

I agree with you that such blatant refusal to participate is very disappointing.

I'm forced to recall, though, that when I became an Australian citizen, and amongst the ceremony we all sang "I Still Call Australia Home", which Peter Allen made famous, I found myself transposing mentally "I still call New Zealand home", as I sang the original words.  That didn't imply any lack of appreciation for becoming an dual citizen, but just reflected my lifelong connection with NZ.
It's a difficult concept to try to explain to anyone who has not migrated to another country, even one as close and with such connections as that of Australia/New Zealand.


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## sails (13 November 2010)

Julia said:


> Sails, when you say the children were not allowed to participate in the song, who forbade them?   Their parents?
> I'm sure it wouldn't have been the school?
> 
> At Grade 5 those children should be well on the way to being able to decide something like this for themselves.
> ...




Yes Julia, I hear what you are saying in that there will always be a connection to one's home country.   I know I would have dual loyalties if I decided to become a citizen in another country, however, there would be a willingness to accept the new country as well.  I find it difficult to understand why some parents would forbid their children to take on a little pride in their new country.  That doesn't have to detract from their pride in their originating country.

I understand they have been forbidden by their parents.  As there were parents present at this function, it wouldn't be a time these kids would break the rules from home.  Possibly these kids have been so well trained to believe this is the right thing to do.

The school is actually very big on pride in the school and country, so it certainly would not have come from the school.  They wouldn't single out a handful of kids from a class or 30+ to look silly by not participating on stage.

Christmas is the same.  When doing cards for class mates, some friends have to be left out because they are not allowed to receive them.   That is a bit more understandable due to religious differences.

But "Advance Australia Fair" is so benign and doesn't renounce other countries or religion whatsoever - it is simply celebrating Austalia, IMO.


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## bellenuit (13 November 2010)

sails said:


> But "Advance Australia Fair" is so benign and doesn't renounce other countries or religion whatsoever - it is simply celebrating Austalia, IMO.




I may be devil's advocate here, but a (likeable) characteristic of Australians is their irreverence and disrespect for authority. Perhaps these students were being a bit more Australian than the others by refusing to sing such pathetic drivel. 

IMO only the French have a national anthem that arouses pride and makes one want to stand to attention. But that is just the tune. Perhaps if I understood the words, I might think otherwise.


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## Julia (13 November 2010)

bellenuit said:


> IMO only the French have a national anthem that arouses pride and makes one want to stand to attention. But that is just the tune. Perhaps if I understood the words, I might think otherwise.



I feel similarly about "The Star Spangled Banner".  No idea of the words, but the music is for me very affecting.


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## Wysiwyg (14 November 2010)

sails said:


> Personally, I found it rather disturbing to watch.  How do others feel about this sort of thing?




There is also a possibility the Australians don't make them feel welcome. Same species, different breeds? Happens naturally.


p.s. I myself care not for type of breed. Have friends black, white and brindle.


----------



## sails (14 November 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> There is also a possibility the Australians don't make them feel welcome. Same species, different breeds? Happens naturally.
> 
> 
> p.s. I myself care not for type of breed. Have friends black, white and brindle.




Wysiwyg, from what I have seen, these kids are treated normally. But then I'm only at the school for brief consults with the teacher from time to time.  The students looked quite relaxed on stage and no-one was making fun of them.  Also, the school is a strong multi-cultural school where tolerance is expected.

Skin colour is of no issue to me.  Although attitude is quite another thing and has nothing to do with nationality, IMO.


----------



## DB008 (5 January 2016)

1) I don't think that Merkel will survive the next election....

2) If the ALP comes into power next election, please don't have an open door policy like Germany...



*Cologne police chief condemns sex assaults on New Year’s Eve​*


> GERMAN police has described a series of sexual assaults against women in Cologne on New Year’s Eve as “a completely new dimension of crime”.
> 
> Officers received numerous complaints from women who said they had been assaulted around Cologne’s main train station next to the western German city’s famous cathedral on the night from Thursday to Friday.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-on-new-years-eve/news-story/8bcb3bd23a3658503c849971af9f0c1d​


----------



## Ijustnewit (6 January 2016)

More to hand on the above story from sky news ,

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-..._4_germany-shaken-by-mass-sex-assaults_060116

However , most of the stories I have seen have asked that refugees not be put under a blanket of suspicion.


----------



## dutchie (6 January 2016)

Merkel - this is what we can do for you..

"Before the New Year, some German towns reportedly cancelled fireworks displays so as not to upset migrants who might associate the loud noises with the sounds of a war zone."

Merkel - this is what you can do for us..

"Germany shaken after group of 1,000 men accused of assaulting 90 women during New Year celebration".


(multiculturalism at its best)


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2016)

dutchie said:


> Merkel - this is what we can do for you..
> 
> "Before the New Year, some German towns reportedly cancelled fireworks displays so as not to upset migrants who might associate the loud noises with the sounds of a war zone."




I'm guessing the Germans didn't have fireworks following on from the WW1 and WW2


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2016)

dutchie said:


> "Germany shaken after group of 1,000 men accused of assaulting 90 women during New Year celebration".
> 
> 
> (multiculturalism at its best)




Well that is what multiculturalism is : tolerating other cultural norms. These blokes were obviously celebrating in their own way.


----------



## pixel (6 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Well that is what multiculturalism is : tolerating other cultural norms. These blokes were obviously celebrating in their own way.




oh sure - it is part of THEIR culture.
German women have to respect that and embrace cultural differences with open arms. 
... and hearts, and ... :1zhelp:


----------



## Ijustnewit (6 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Well that is what multiculturalism is : tolerating other cultural norms. These blokes were obviously celebrating in their own way.



I see that we have a nomination for the most inappropriate comment 2016.:bad:


----------



## luutzu (6 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Well that is what multiculturalism is : tolerating other cultural norms. These blokes were obviously celebrating in their own way.




causing problems with that Irish sense of humour again O'Hara?


----------



## sptrawler (6 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Well that is what multiculturalism is : tolerating other cultural norms. These blokes were obviously celebrating in their own way.




When in Rome do as the Romans do, when in other places, do as you like.

Jeez, it shows how much gratitude there is, for soft Government.IMO


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> causing problems with that Irish sense of humour again O'Hara?




Don't listen to them luutzu, they are just angry I thought of it first.  Not my fault the Germans encouraged these people to bring there culture to their lands.


----------



## dutchie (6 January 2016)

Germany is sick sick sick

Mayor of Cologne urges code of conduct for young women to prevent future assaults


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...r-young-women-to-prevent-future-assaults.html

Those women should not have pressed their crotches and breasts into those mens hands.


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2016)

dutchie said:


> Germany is sick sick sick
> 
> Mayor of Cologne urges code of conduct for young women to prevent future assaults
> 
> ...




I rest my case


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> I rest my case




We have dash cams for cars, should we now have bra cams and knicker cams for women ?

If anyone wants to start up a business based on this, I'll give you my address so you can send royalties.


----------



## Tisme (7 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> We have dash cams for cars, should we now have bra cams and knicker cams for women ?
> 
> If anyone wants to start up a business based on this, I'll give you my address so you can send royalties.




Bosch are probably onto it as we pontificate.

We have to remember who the real victims are here. The authorities obviously have the pulse of the nation by making sure the nation modifies its behaviours to accommodate the torment their new peace loving guests are feeling. 

It must be intolerable to a Syrian to see women walking about the streets freely at all times of the day...how could the host be so callous to sensitive, warm hearted Muslim males.


----------



## DB008 (7 January 2016)

*New Year sex attacks in Frankfurt, police say​*



> Groups of men sexually assaulted women in Frankfurt on New Year, police report - as the number of complaints of sexual assault in Hamburg has risen to nearly forty.
> 
> In scenes similar to those in Cologne, several women have reported New Year sexual assaults to police in Frankfurt.
> 
> ...




http://www.thelocal.de/20160106/cologne-police-cant-work-this-way-minister​


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2016)

Luutzu, Luutzu where are u??? Should I list links to some of my previous posts? Who but the dummeror to be nice naive could even be surprised by this?
The good thing is that these ladies can at least go to the police to complain and record their claims, no such things possible once they will be settled/taken control but hey, how could i know....


----------



## luutzu (7 January 2016)

qldfrog said:


> Luutzu, Luutzu where are u??? Should I list links to some of my previous posts? Who but the dummeror to be nice naive could even be surprised by this?
> The good thing is that these ladies can at least go to the police to complain and record their claims, no such things possible once they will be settled/taken control but hey, how could i know....




I read that they haven't caught the suspects and criminal yet. Maybe wait til then shall we? Presumed innocent and all that legal stuff.

But to the point... no one, not even me I can assure you, would condone or excuse violence and rape. So I hope they're caught and if found guilty let the law deal with it.

I really don't understand all these finger pointing. There are always criminals and saints and just normal people... we have that in any group of people and any ethnicity. So to paint with the same brush the crimes of those bastards who speak or sound or look like them is a bit much.


And happy new year.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> I read that they haven't caught the suspects and criminal yet. Maybe wait til then shall we? Presumed innocent and all that legal stuff.
> 
> But to the point... no one, not even me I can assure you, would condone or excuse violence and rape. So I hope they're caught and if found guilty let the law deal with it.
> 
> ...




Did similar incidents occur before the influx of refugees ?

Is it all a beatup ?

If it's a genuine event then I see trouble brewing for Germany that will be hard to deal with. 

Maybe the only answer is give refugees temporary protection visas and ship them out at the earliest opportunity.


----------



## luutzu (7 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Did similar incidents occur before the influx of refugees ?
> 
> Is it all a beatup ?
> 
> ...




Germany took in 900,000 refugees last year? The article reports 100 hooligans and rapists, and let's assume they're among those refugees... that's around 1/10th of 1%. And in case some may take this to mean that a "small" percentage of rapist is acceptable, I'm not saying that. 

I mean, we all wish people are nice and good, but some are just frickin a holes, and so let the authority deal with them.

---

Temporary protection visa won't work in this case. These proxy wars has been going on for at least 3 years and it seem they're just getting started. Would last another decade by the look of it.

Examine their claim as asylum, let them know their fate so they can settle and start to rebuild their lives. People whose mind and status are settled will work harder, have incentives to assimilate and further themselves and their kids future - that is a positive for them and the adopted country. And when the Masters of War are done with their work in the ME, these former refugees would at least be able to send money back to their relatives and maybe the entire region won't starve to death.


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2016)

Welcome back Lutzu, I needed rosy glasses, the truth was too much as per my gloomy predictions: 

"Germany took in 900,000 refugees last year? "
no, 900 000 illegal immegrants/invasion force but except for the term, the number is conservatively right


"The article reports 100 hooligans and rapists, "
Read again more 1000 in Kohln alone, 
Google, read papers and reports
and let's assume they're among those refugees... 
Unless these hords were all good bayern ledder hosen people I am sure
"that's around 1/10th of 1%. "
1% just in Kohln, if you add the other cities, a conservative 2%
in one night...yeahhh 
Fresh blood for the German people?

"And in case some may take this to mean that a "small" percentage of rapist is acceptable, I'm not saying that.

I mean, we all wish people are nice and good, but some are just frickin a holes, and so let the authority deal with them.
"
Dreamland again
How? 1Millions no name no control no ID and on the move???
Easy for the cops trying to use civilised rules in a chaos barbarian situation

---

"Temporary protection visa won't work in this case."
Indeed

Bullets are the usual option against invading ennemies, until you win or loose

"These proxy wars has been going on for at least 3 years"
Islam vs the world has been going on for much longer,
ask the buddists from afghanistan to indonesia, the Serbs and Greeks  up to WWI
Remember gallipoli? The ottoman empire?
France and Spain had to fight back to free more than half of their own territories, not to mention middle east africa who were not that successfull.
And this well before the 17th century...

Like in global warming talks, it seems that debate needs a 50% for/against in our PC world, who care about facts or figures?
In that scheme, you have a heavy role to play (downplay sorry) as I do not know many others who are ready for the role of hero in the face of "adversity, racism, xenophobia".
Must help you probably have never lived in Germany, I am biaised here.
RIP europe..What governments can do to us....


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2016)

qldfrog said:


> Welcome back Lutzu, I needed rosy glasses, the truth was too much as per my gloomy predictions:
> 
> "Germany took in 900,000 refugees last year? "
> no, 900 000 illegal immegrants/invasion force but except for the term, the number is conservatively right
> ...




Come on sqlfrog, a bit much there.

If I were to blame all French people for what Imperial France did to Vietnam/IndoChina, and of course everywhere else, I wouldn't be talking to you. If we keep blaming an entire people for the crimes and criminal behaviour of people "like" them, the world is going to be a very mean place.


You think it's fair for you take responsibility for crimes committed by French speaking people? If you don't think you should be blamed or imprisoned or otherwise mistreated for the behaviours of others who look and sound like you, why should the same not apply to others?


So the illegal "immigrants", not refugees at all, they are invading Europe... on foot, empty handed, begging for help. That's invading.

So what has NATO, the US, France and other coalition doing in Syria and the ME and Libya and Africa all these years with jets and soldiers and peacekeepers? 

I'm no lawyer but pretty sure it's an invasion when you send armed boots and bomb other people's country and replacing their tyrants and leaders you don't like. 

The UN define civilians fleeing war zones as refugees; people fleeing for fear of danger and death and persecution... they're refugees, not invaders.

-----

Europe versus Islam has been going long before there was Islam - The Romans weren't native to Egypt or the ME right? Hannibal took on Rome and Rome eventually raze his country to the ground right?

 Europe vs Europe long before they were Christians; and at it whenever they can after they've all gone to Christianity. Heck, any country and people you care to name have been fighting each other in "civil wars" at least a few times in their long or not so long history.

So with the exception of our immediate family, maybe cousins... I really don't see the difference between people and ethnicity. People join together and are united because they have a common interest - so they will break away once the interests are no longer aligned.

To group people together as a united entity because they look the same or worship the same religion... that's irrelevant.

Anyway, just had a cup of left over Lambrusco so going off somewhere. Imported from Italy and cost a whole $5 - how do they make money?


----------



## pixel (8 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> Anyway, just had a cup of left over Lambrusco so going off somewhere. Imported from Italy and cost a whole $5 - how do they make money?




Top rant, Luutzu;
and in essence spoken from my heart too.

"_*how do they (Italy etc) make money?*_" Well, by selling weapons and ammunition, of course. Turkey is a NATO member and as such can obtain a virtually unlimited arsenal of weapons and ammo. Guess where much of that ends up: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323539-nato-turkey-kurds-russia/

As a consequence of Europe and America providing hardware to the warring parties, a large number of those 900,000 you spoke about are indeed desperate refugees that had no other choice but to flee their country for fear of being slaughtered by militiamen with different views to their own, with weapons sold to them by the very nations that caused the power vacuum in the first place.

The only criticism I have in reply to your earlier calculation: It's not just 1000 criminals and rapists out of 900,000 refugees, but up to a 1000 in each major German center: Cologne, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Munich, Hanover, Berlin, ... the list goes on.
I know because I have friends and family in many of those places; one of my granddaughters has just moved to Hamburg, and I'm scared stiff that she could be attacked by one of those pseudo-refugees. If they're so full of testosterone and machismo, they should really be given a gun and trained to fight whoever caused them and their families to flee their homeland in the first place. But they're cowards, more interested in getting paid welfare for making babies in a country that knows all too well what it means to be a refugee.

In reply to the mealy-mouthed apologists that try to tell German girls and women to avoid crowds in order to avoid being accosted, groped, raped: You are utter idiots! It's okay to show tolerance and offer help to those that need your help. But the least you have to expect from any newcomer is respect for your own people, your own way of life, and your country's laws. Anybody who refuses to accept that is forfeiting the right of welcome. Disrespecting your hosts disqualifies you prima facie as a genuine refugee.

It's about time somebody made that clear not only to the bulk of asylum seekers, especially to the minority of troublemakers, but to Dr Merkel and softies like her.


----------



## dutchie (8 January 2016)

Germany is a joke.

'Angela Merkel invited us': How baying asylum seeker sex mob taunted Cologne police after robbing and raping women

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...olice-robbing-raping-women.html#ixzz3wauZK7s1
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## Tisme (8 January 2016)

If we are using percentages, how does the 1000 out of the the local Syrian guests compare to the number of French counterparts?

I wonder how those blokes would feel if they returned home after the hoot of the night to find their wives and GFs has been molested by the local indigenous lads....probably laugh it off?

Remember Bilal Skaf ?


----------



## DB008 (8 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> Germany took in 900,000 refugees last year? The article reports 100 hooligans and rapists, and let's assume they're among those refugees... that's around 1/10th of 1%. And in case some may take this to mean that a "small" percentage of rapist is acceptable, I'm not saying that.




Wait until they really start arriving...3 million predicted this year.

So, does that mean a 3000 rape scene at a train station is ok?



*Another 3 million refugees and migrants will arrive in Europe in 2016, EU says​*



> More than three million more refugees and migrants are expected to arrive in the European Union by the end of 2016, the European Commission has said.
> 
> In 2015 around 700,000 people have come to Europe seeking sanctuary or jobs so far this year, overwhelming reception centres and border authorities.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-expecting-another-3-million-refugees-migrants-before-end-of-2016-a6722096.html​


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2016)

DB008 said:


> Wait until they really start arriving...3 million predicted this year.
> 
> So, does that mean a 3000 rape scene at a train station is ok?
> 
> ...




I did say that no single case is acceptable. Re-read it again buddy.

I've said it before, maybe worth repeating... That I personally know refugees who take their fellow refugees who are criminals and gangs and drug dealers and just misbehaving kids very personally. They are more outraged by it then they or anyone ought to be.

I've seen many older refugees getting physically upset way back then whenever they hear or read on the news about crimes and gangs among "their people". 

But ey, if it makes you feel better thinking that they're all rapists or terrorists or otherwise screwing up the place.. well just feel better with that thought and don't do anything would be my advice. Win win.

But if you want to do something, maybe go meet some of them in real life and have a kebab first.


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2016)

pixel said:


> Top rant, Luutzu;
> and in essence spoken from my heart too.
> 
> "_*how do they (Italy etc) make money?*_" Well, by selling weapons and ammunition, of course. Turkey is a NATO member and as such can obtain a virtually unlimited arsenal of weapons and ammo. Guess where much of that ends up: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323539-nato-turkey-kurds-russia/
> ...




Yea, there's never an excuse stuff like that. And how or who would blame the victim; that's stupid.

Seems everyone is fighting ISIS at the moment. Why not I guess... war is the only industry that's booming at the moment. For most countries it's the only manufacturing that's not outsourced. 

hard to imagine how wars could end when it's so "profitable".


----------



## qldfrog (9 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> I did say that no single case is acceptable. Re-read it again buddy.
> 
> I've said it before, maybe worth repeating... That I personally know refugees who take their fellow refugees who are criminals and gangs and drug dealers and just misbehaving kids very personally. They are more outraged by it then they or anyone ought to be.
> 
> ...



would not disagree on all what you say in the above but you are still living in the lunacy that these are refugees, These guys are not and would still have come to Europe if allowed without a single war for as long as European welfare system and wealth differential remain in place.With population explosion and archaic attitude due to extreme islamism in the countries of orgin [all deeply linked to the religious invasion mantra in place], who needs a war to cause poverty.
" they're all rapists or terrorists or otherwise screwing up the place.. " yeap and proven again and again but as long as you are blinded by your personal Vietnamese refugees background or your lebanese neighbours (who may even have been maronite Christians but came in Oz too early to have ever been salafist muslims) you will never see the light.You compare oranges with apples or more appropriately gems with rotting gangrene.


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> And how or who would blame the victim; that's stupid.
> 
> .




If you were a woman raped in a Muslim country, guess what happens.


----------



## dutchie (9 January 2016)

How to stop all the groping and raping:

1. Politicians - keep singing kumbaya.
2. Police - deny and ignore it.
3. MSM - don't report it.
4. Women - stay in your homes - all the time.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> If you were a woman raped in a Muslim country, guess what happens.




In a Muslim country you get stoned after to get raped, in a WASP country it's the other way around.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2016)

Absolutely awful what happened in Germany.  Certainly has had an overwhelming  effect of  whipping up blind anger against all asylum seekers, immigrants  and refugees.

I understand that there is evidence the attacks were in fact organised and orchestrated.  It will be very interesting to see who is at the bottom of these events.



> * Cologne police chief fired as witness says NYE violence was coordinated*
> 
> German government says 18 of 31 people identified by police as having played role in events were asylum seekers, but none suspected of sexual assault
> 
> ...




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/cologne-violence-suspects-include-asylum-seekers


----------



## SirRumpole (9 January 2016)

I wonder what the procedures are when refugees enter.

They should be photographed, fingerprinted and DNA sampled and it should be made clear to them that misbehaviour could result in no access to welfare, and gaol or deportation.


Hopefully this country continues to maintain standards in who we accept.


----------



## qldfrog (9 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> I wonder what the procedures are when refugees enter.
> 
> They should be photographed, fingerprinted and DNA sampled and it should be made clear to them that misbehaviour could result in no access to welfare, and gaol or deportation.
> 
> ...



you assume a control which is not present, this is chaos


----------



## luutzu (9 January 2016)

qldfrog said:


> would not disagree on all what you say in the above but you are still living in the lunacy that these are refugees, These guys are not and would still have come to Europe if allowed without a single war for as long as European welfare system and wealth differential remain in place.With population explosion and archaic attitude due to extreme islamism in the countries of orgin [all deeply linked to the religious invasion mantra in place], who needs a war to cause poverty.
> " they're all rapists or terrorists or otherwise screwing up the place.. " yeap and proven again and again but as long as you are blinded by your personal Vietnamese refugees background or your lebanese neighbours (who may even have been maronite Christians but came in Oz too early to have ever been salafist muslims) you will never see the light.You compare oranges with apples or more appropriately gems with rotting gangrene.




Some of the Viets I know... man, they aren't saints. I actually don't know any Vietnamese whom I would consider a saintly person. Maybe my father. Anyway, a few I have the misfortune of knowing knowing... you know how there are events that open your eyes and the age of innocence kinda die with it? There's way too many of those events and most of them are with Vietnamese people. 

Maybe I don't blame the entire race for those behaviour because that would also be blaming people I know and blaming myself. That or once we step back a bit, it's just people. Some are nasty and some are nice. Race, religion and all other differences or similarities - to me the only thing that bad people have in common is that they're bad.

Sure it's easy if the good, the bad and the ugly could identify themselves - by wearing headcovers or practising a certain religion or skin colour. Reality don't work that way but you know, if we want to believe it to make life easier on ourselves... sure, easy but some innocent people might get hurt and we may now and then get an unexpected surprise from people we trust.

----

*Starvation in Syria: People in Town Under Siege Eating Leaves and Grass*

http://aleteia.org/2016/01/08/starvation-in-syria-people-in-town-under-siege-eating-pets-and-grass/


----------



## luutzu (9 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> If you were a woman raped in a Muslim country, guess what happens.




Blaming the victim is wrong, wherever it is. So what's your point?

Don't we in Australia now and then get some idiot on radio blaming rape victims for dressing in short skirts and flirting with men... I'm pretty sure I heard it.


I thought it's pretty obvious that with over 1 billion people, the Muslims are not as united or sharing the one mindset as they're made out to be.


----------



## dutchie (10 January 2016)

Police reaction to attacks on women - not much.

Police reaction to people protesting about attacks on women - bring out the riot squad!!


----------



## noco (10 January 2016)

I don't think the German people are very happy with Angela Merkel ATM

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/3...-pegida-rally-in-wake-of-cologne-sex-attacks/

*Cologne (Germany) (AFP) - Chanting "Merkel out" and waving placards with slogans like "Rapefugees not welcome", xenophobic German PEGIDA protesters vented their fury Saturday against migrants after mass sexual assaults on New Year's Eve.

Amid clashes with police, the far-right protesters took aim at Chancellor Angela Merkel, accusing her of allowing migrants to run amok through her liberal stance towards those fleeing war

Tensions escalated when followers of the movement -- about half of them violence-prone hooligans, according to police -- marched and hurled beer bottles and fire crackers at police, screaming "where were you on New Year's Eve?"

Riot police beat back the agitated protesters with batons, teargas and water cannon in clashes that left three police and one journalist injured and in which police detained multiple demonstrators.

"Merkel has become a danger to our country. Merkel must go," one speaker earlier told the 1,700-strong crowd, which loudly echoed the call, expressing their anger at Germany's 1.1-million-strong migrant influx last year.

"Tolerance is the final virtue of a dying society," read another banner in the protest, organised by the local chapter of PEGIDA, the self-styled "Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the Occident".*

This can well happen here in Australia if Labor Party get back into power.


----------



## Tisme (10 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> Blaming the victim is wrong, wherever it is. So what's your point?
> 
> Don't we in Australia now and then get some idiot on radio blaming rape victims for dressing in short skirts and flirting with men... I'm pretty sure I heard it.
> 
> ...




When it's state sanctioned and draws an approving crowd, it ceases to be just one idiot.

 Litmus test for your mind: if it was your daughter/wife who was raped in Arabland would you risk her being stoned to death and/or jailed for a decade by laying a complaint or plead her to take the get out of free card to leave the country?


----------



## Tisme (10 January 2016)

noco said:


> I don't think the German people are very happy with Angela Merkel ATM
> 
> [
> .





Should tattoo a crescent moon and serial number on the arrival's foreheads, plus remote activated explosive beads into the left ventricle.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (10 January 2016)

Hard to watch what's happening in Germany.  One thing I do like is the non-interventionist stance Merkel is taking.  She's trusting the population (locals and immigrants) will have the sense to sort things out without relying on a controlling 'parent figure' government.  Generally, if you trust people they will repay you handsomely.  So despite the chaos on NYE, order may emerge.  Controlling, manipulative governments are the domain of third world countries.


----------



## luutzu (10 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> When it's state sanctioned and draws an approving crowd, it ceases to be just one idiot.
> 
> Litmus test for your mind: if it was your daughter/wife who was raped in Arabland would you risk her being stoned to death and/or jailed for a decade by laying a complaint or plead her to take the get out of free card to leave the country?




That's another reason why they'd want to leave the place. Just happen some of the idiots came along too.

But in time, criminals and hooligans will be in prison or deported.


----------



## qldfrog (10 January 2016)

And for the ones who do care about real world:
o7/01 a "refugee" who had been through a german refugee center attacked a police station in Barbes (paris 18th);
He was killed first..Not much heard about that, or the previous weeks another attack by a muslim fanatic ramming his car against 4 army personnel garding a southern site, he killed no one.
On both occasion, as French police and army have now live ammos and the right to shoot, this ended up ok; but not much told about that in the media her or in leftist media in europe.
Sleep well sleep well
Maybe I should start a thread called"Muslim fundamentalists attacks in europe: a tally"? Wonder if i can do that without putting myself orJoe in trouble;
This is legally impossible in Europe now; replacing muslim by white suppremacists or nazi would still be ok
Sleep well Sleep well


----------



## luutzu (11 January 2016)

qldfrog said:


> And for the ones who do care about real world:
> o7/01 a "refugee" who had been through a german refugee center attacked a police station in Barbes (paris 18th);
> He was killed first..Not much heard about that, or the previous weeks another attack by a muslim fanatic ramming his car against 4 army personnel garding a southern site, he killed no one.
> On both occasion, as French police and army have now live ammos and the right to shoot, this ended up ok; but not much told about that in the media her or in leftist media in europe.
> ...




I think there's a dude on this forum that's already tallying up all crimes and general mayhem caused by Muslims. His canvas is the entire world, not just Europe though.

Come on qldfrog... no sane person condone violence or crimes by any person or group of people. When we see it, we speak out against it. But to take the actions of criminals and paint it to all those who are "like" them.

I saw a picture of a Syrian father holding his toddler after they landed in Canada. The man was in tears. You seriously think he would raise his children up to be terrorists or rapists or otherwise anti-social?

Most of these kids will see how hard their parents work, how they'd save all they can and send back to help the relatives back in what's left of Syria or Iraq or Afghanistan - might turn out well seeing generosity like that... That and hear from the parents how if no foreign invaders with bullets and bombs and jets were flying all over the place, how if they didn't waste all their school years being taught how great and kind the tyrants were... alright so some might drop out but you get the idea.

Have faith brother. If France could survive Julius Caesar, the Napoleonic Wars and Hitler's Reich, what chance would these little idiots have? Look to the current and former dominions of France... your countryman are more than capable of self defense.


----------



## DB008 (12 January 2016)

Can't do quotes or highlights as I'm using my mobile, but this article came out in the New York Times.

Looks like cover-up's and blaming women is more important to the police than naming and shaming the refugees/immigrants.

Sweden is PC overboard.



 Swedish Police, Accused of Cover-Up, Look Into Reports of Sexual Assault at Festival


LONDON ”” The police in Sweden, responding to accusations of a cover-up, said on Monday that they were investigating why the public had not been informed about sexual assault by men reported to be migrants at a festival in Stockholm last summer.

In echoes of the scandal in Cologne, Germany, where the police are investigating scores of assaults, often involving asylum seekers, on New Year’s Eve, the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter reported over the weekend that a gang of migrant youths had groped young girls at a festival in August.

The attacks in Cologne have intensified the scrutiny of the assaults in Sweden, and even as Chancellor Angela Merkel’s spokesman, Steffen Seibert, said there was no excuse for revenge attacks against immigrants, a group of Pakistanis and a Syrian were targeted in Cologne on Sunday, The Associated Press reported.

The Swedish newspaper said that the police had not mentioned the attacks until it published details about them, and it accused the authorities of failing to warn the public before the festival that similar attacks had occurred in 2014, prompting speculation that the authorities were trying to avoid an anti-immigrant backlash.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/1...h-police-coverup-sexual-assault.html?referer=


----------



## dutchie (29 January 2016)

Psychiatrist confirms what everyone already knows......

"German psychiatrist Hans-Joachim Maaz said in an analysis that Mrs Merkel is so determined not to admit that she was wrong about her migration policy that she has 'lost touch with reality'."


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2016)

dutchie said:


> Psychiatrist confirms what everyone already knows......
> 
> "German psychiatrist Hans-Joachim Maaz said in an analysis that Mrs Merkel is so determined not to admit that she was wrong about her migration policy that she has 'lost touch with reality'."




But it looks good if she is going to run for the UN.


----------



## basilio (29 January 2016)

dutchie said:


> Psychiatrist confirms what everyone already knows......
> 
> "German psychiatrist Hans-Joachim Maaz said in an analysis that Mrs Merkel is so determined not to admit that she was wrong about her migration policy that she has 'lost touch with reality'."




I think this is just good old fashioned gas lighting Dutchie. If you saw the clip which showed her response to the interjector Merkel was reacting as effectively as she could to an unwanted challenge while giving a speech. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWNQxiUjBtY

There is no doubt that solving the problem of millions of refugees is huge. But reframing into a hate/fear Muslim takes us into  very dark places/


----------



## wayneL (29 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> Have faith brother. If France could survive Julius Caesar, the Napoleonic Wars and Hitler's Reich, what chance would these little idiots have? Look to the current and former dominions of France... your countryman are more than capable of self defense.




This is different, there is an ideological malady in all western countries, the insidious attack on our own culture from within by poisonous leftist ideologues.

Those other threats were a intrusion by a foreign body, this current problem is a cancer. The problem of Islam and rampant immigration simply a symptom of the same.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2016)

wayneL said:


> This is different, there is an ideological malady in all western countries, the insidious attack on our own culture from within by poisonous leftist ideologues.




Such as ?


----------



## luutzu (29 January 2016)

wayneL said:


> This is different, there is an ideological malady in all western countries, the insidious attack on our own culture from within by poisonous leftist ideologues.
> 
> Those other threats were a intrusion by a foreign body, this current problem is a cancer. The problem of Islam and rampant immigration simply a symptom of the same.




Yea I know. Dam commies and their weather, clean air, safe water to drink, fair work fair pay, workers' rights, welfare payment for the sick and less well heeled.

Why can't they just leave the capitalists alone to do their good work and not at all exploits children and sweat shops and slavery.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> Yea I know. Dam commies and their weather, clean air, safe water to drink, fair work fair pay, workers' rights, welfare payment for the sick and less well heeled.
> 
> Why can't they just leave the capitalists alone to do their good work and not at all exploits children and sweat shops and slavery.






Nice one !


----------



## luutzu (29 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Nice one !




yup. Hit the nail sometime. It's all about volumes


----------



## wayneL (29 January 2016)

luutzu said:


> Yea I know. Dam commies and their weather, clean air, safe water to drink, fair work fair pay, workers' rights, welfare payment for the sick and less well heeled.
> 
> Why can't they just leave the capitalists alone to do their good work and not at all exploits children and sweat shops and slavery.




I said culture, not economy.


----------



## wayneL (29 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Such as ?




I see you have also (intentionally?) missed the point. 

My examples are 90% of the Machiavellian destroyers and apologists for anything non Anglo-Celtic, (especially if hostile to us) in the Labor and Green Parties.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2016)

wayneL said:


> I see you have also (intentionally?) missed the point.
> 
> My examples are 90% of the Machiavellian destroyers and apologists for anything non Anglo-Celtic, (especially if hostile to us) in the Labor and Green Parties.




Some specifics would be nice.


----------



## luutzu (29 January 2016)

wayneL said:


> I said culture, not economy.




Money also work in their culture too Sifu. I know because I got a few of them to do some work and I only need to pay them, no need to join the Faith


----------



## dutchie (30 January 2016)

This is 14 year old Mohammed who is seeking asylum in Sweden.

At his interview Mohammed stated that he hoped that when he was no longer eligible for the youth allowance that he would be able to get straight onto the old age pension.


----------



## wayneL (30 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Some specifics would be nice.




Start from the top and work down, you'll get a long way before you find defenders of our culture on the left.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 January 2016)

wayneL said:


> Start from the top and work down, you'll get a long way before you find defenders of our culture on the left.




I think there are a lot of "defenders of our culture" on the "Left" as you put it, but please give some examples of those you regard as Left who have attacked or not defended our culture ?

You also need to define "our culture" , are you talking religion or what ?


----------



## dutchie (31 January 2016)

The EU must be kidding......

EU leaders insist there is 'NO LINK' between the migrant crisis and New Year sex attacks in Cologne

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...men-Cologne-say-EU-leaders.html#ixzz3ylcHnLjZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


EU = UN = joke  ( very costly joke)


----------



## wayneL (31 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> I think there are a lot of "defenders of our culture" on the "Left" as you put it, but please give some examples of those you regard as Left who have attacked or not defended our culture ?
> 
> You also need to define "our culture" , are you talking religion or what ?




Agree there are a few, but come on Horace!


----------



## dutchie (2 February 2016)

Nothing to do with Islam, just good old multiculturalism at its best.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ners-stood-woman-harassing-Munich-subway.html


----------



## Ijustnewit (2 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> Nothing to do with Islam, just good old multiculturalism at its best.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ners-stood-woman-harassing-Munich-subway.html




You won't see this story on the ABC that's for sure. But what I did see yesterday on the ABC was another tugging at the heart strings story about a boatload of refugees being rescued when their 30 odd foot luxury speedboat ran out of fuel close to the coast of Greece. Luckily for them they where all wearing warm fur lined designer winter clothing.
If I was to buy that boat here in Australia it would be a luxury item and cost probably close to $70 grand plus.
How thankful they all were to be saved from such a nightmare and head their way to a new life in Germany.


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## wayneL (2 February 2016)

Ijustnewit said:


> You won't see this story on the ABC that's for sure. But what I did see yesterday on the ABC was another tugging at the heart strings story about a boatload of refugees being rescued when their 30 odd foot luxury speedboat ran out of fuel close to the coast of Greece. Luckily for them they where all wearing warm fur lined designer winter clothing.
> If I was to buy that boat here in Australia it would be a luxury item and cost probably close to $70 grand plus.
> How thankful they all were to be saved from such a nightmare and head their way to a new life in Germany.




Hence why the neo-nazis are gaining momentum.... Fast.


----------



## luutzu (2 February 2016)

Ijustnewit said:


> You won't see this story on the ABC that's for sure. But what I did see yesterday on the ABC was another tugging at the heart strings story about a boatload of refugees being rescued when their 30 odd foot luxury speedboat ran out of fuel close to the coast of Greece. Luckily for them they where all wearing warm fur lined designer winter clothing.
> If I was to buy that boat here in Australia it would be a luxury item and cost probably close to $70 grand plus.
> How thankful they all were to be saved from such a nightmare and head their way to a new life in Germany.




Watch this slideshow.




Or this one from Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/syria-in-ruins?articleId=USRTX24MYS


But of course all those are just lefty propaganda... The rapists and thugs among them, now those are the real Muslims and obviously they should all be sent home.


----------



## luutzu (2 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> Hence why the neo-nazis are gaining momentum.... Fast.




No, the Neo-Nazis are rising because the economy is pretty much bankrupted, the people are sent to poverty through bad economic policies and rigged political elections... and it's all blamed on the poor and refugees. Just like the good old days.


----------



## wayneL (3 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> No, the Neo-Nazis are rising because the economy is pretty much bankrupted, the people are sent to poverty through bad economic policies and rigged political elections... and it's all blamed on the poor and refugees. Just like the good old days.




That's not even logical. Any number of movements can arise because of economic vandalism, but this movemt is a direct result of the impact on their culture. Not saying anything in favour or against it, it just is and a direct consequence and reaction to the actions of certain immigrants.

Sorry of you don't want to face that, but its true.


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## luutzu (3 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> That's not even logical. Any number of movements can arise because of economic vandalism, but this movemt is a direct result of the impact on their culture. Not saying anything in favour or against it, it just is and a direct consequence and reaction to the actions of certain immigrants.
> 
> Sorry of you don't want to face that, but its true.




"In time of abundance, even strangers are invited into the home and offered a feast. In time of hardship and famine, even siblings and family are neglected" observed Han Fei Tzu.

Neo-con austerity policies have pushed European economies into Great Depression era decay - high unemployment, job insecurity, job losses. Education, health, social services are cut to the bone; jobs are hard to come by, low interest rates but privatised essentials mean the cost of living keeps rising but the little extras from savings or pensions are deroding etc. etc.

Add to it expanding foreign wars abroad, terrorist attack on some days and anti-terrorism measures on all days at all fronts in all places mean economic and security situation just get worst and worst. 

Add to the sensational news reporting and focus on what makes people tick (ungrateful refugees, hairy Muslims molesting and raping our women) while ignoring their sponsors whose tax cheats and rigged economic policies mean they're walking away with literally hundreds of billions a year... 

If you're an average European and have grown up in a rich country that has now deteriorated... you read the papers about Muslims, terrorists, refugees and a few rotten bankers here and there. Who will you blame for the national crisis? Not the policies of your bought-off and sold-out politicians and their "poor people are stupid" ideologies.

We've seen it time and again throughout history... when these kind of situation occur, it will first start with the funny looking people and minority being blamed and beaten up; then some right wing nut job with a great love for country and weapons will emerge and something will be done about the minority and parasites, then onto the worlddddd.

That's what led to Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. The US got lucky having FDR as its president who were more learned and told his fellow plutocrats to either give up some of their wealth to the people or be forced by the masses to give it all up and be hanged in the streets for their trouble.

The way things are going, today's plutocrats don't seem to see anything wrong at all - they also bought into this migrant and parasitic refugee story they're selling to the masses.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2016)

An analysis of Angela Merkel's refugee problem.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/angela-merkels-refugee-dilemma/7130574


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## dutchie (6 February 2016)

It's getting more and more depraved.........

Iraqi migrant raped a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool in Vienna and told police it was a 'sexual emergency' because he hadn't had sex in months

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mergency-hadn-t-sex-months.html#ixzz3zODPSVKA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sick

Obviously the boy had not read the pamphlets showing how he should have just pushed the man away.


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## luutzu (7 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> It's getting more and more depraved.........
> 
> Iraqi migrant raped a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool in Vienna and told police it was a 'sexual emergency' because he hadn't had sex in months
> 
> ...




It is depraved, sick and the bastard should be locked up and have his teeth kicked in for raping a kid. But it is also not right to then use the kid's suffering to further your interests.

It is sickening that any one is raped like that, but where is the outrage when some 10,000 refugee children are missing and presumed kidnapped and forced into sex slavery across Europe?

Where is the pain when refugees drowned, suffer frostbites, have their clothes stuck onto their skin as they walk on foot in the snow, raped, beaten up... as they try to seek safety but are being treated like dogs?

Your moral outrage might be taken more seriously once you stop with these "worthy" and "unworthy" victims biases. Some might take that to be simple racism.


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## Tisme (7 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> It's getting more and more depraved.........
> 
> Iraqi migrant raped a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool in Vienna and told police it was a 'sexual emergency' because he hadn't had sex in months
> 
> ...




Sick indeed. I was just wondering if the boy would get stoned for his actions, if he were in the homelands of Islam?


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## SirRumpole (7 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> It is sickening that any one is raped like that, but where is the outrage when some 10,000 refugee children are missing and presumed kidnapped and forced into sex slavery across Europe?





True according to this report.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-sex-work-slavery-trade-arriving-Europe.html

But I'm afraid it's another symptom of a crisis that is too big for Western countries to handle. Too many people, large borders that can't be monitored and police forces and social security systems that are not set up to handle this sort of situation.

ISIL, Assad and Russia are creating the need for these people to flee and the West is expected to clean up their mess.


----------



## Tisme (7 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> Start from the top and work down, you'll get a long way before you find defenders of our culture on the left.




I must say the most vocal pro Oz culturalists that I have observed have tended to be the "left" as you coin it. But then again the left seems to have been redefined as anything not right, with the right being Kipling's:

_"*Take up the White Man’s burden””*

Send forth the best ye breed””

Go send your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need

To wait in heavy harness

On fluttered folk and wild””

Your new-caught, sullen peoples,

Half devil and half child

Take up the White Man’s burden

In patience to abide

To veil the threat of terror

And check the show of pride;

By open speech and simple

An hundred times made plain

To seek another’s profit

And work another’s gain

Take up the White Man’s burden””

And reap his old reward:

The blame of those ye better

The hate of those ye guard””

The cry of hosts ye humour

(Ah slowly) to the light:

"Why brought ye us from bondage,

“Our loved Egyptian night?”

Take up the White Man’s burden-

Have done with childish days-

The lightly proffered laurel,

The easy, ungrudged praise.

Comes now, to search your manhood

Through all the thankless years,

Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,

The judgment of your peers!


_


----------



## dutchie (7 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> Some might take that to be simple racism.




Ah, the old racist card.


----------



## luutzu (7 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> Ah, the old racist card.




How does a Muslim refugee raping a child mean multiculturalism does not work?

I would have thought, on hearing a child has been raped, that that child should be cared for and helped; that the rapist should be punished and if he have his head banged against the wall a few time I wouldn't mind it. Any objective person would think along such line, no matter what race or what colour or what religion or what job... the rapist is.

If one of your relative, or one whose skin tone is the same as yours, commit a crime... should we ask the judge to lock you up with that person too? Or call you depraved and send you back to where your ancestors came from or something?

The stuff we say and believe about Muslims and refugees at this point in time have serious consequences to them and their well being.

If what I say and do have some effect on policies that determine people's fate... I'd probably want to be more mindful or at least informed before saying it.


----------



## luutzu (7 February 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> True according to this report.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-sex-work-slavery-trade-arriving-Europe.html
> 
> ...




Any problem is too big if we don't want to deal with it.

Why should the West deal with it? For one, signatories to the UN refugee convention; Two, it's the right thing to do; Three, we kind of started the whole mess.

Remember how NATO and Obama thought Libya's Qaddafi is a bad tyrant (as opposed to a good one all those years before) and bombed the heck out of him so forces on the ground go at it and overthrow him? Wel right after that they thought it's a good idea to do the same with Assad and Syria. 

Problem was Assad does have most of his people's support, or at least his military's support. That and Russia's backing. 

we can blame Assad and Russia all we want, but it's natural that when a foreign power, or a foreign-back group tries to overthrow a gov't, the gov't kind of not want to just go quietly.

Russia will of course step in.. .as Tisme said a while back, they have a lot of investment in Syria. That and I heard Mearsheimer or other saying Syria, like the Crimea, holds great strategic and security interests for Russia - if Syria goes West or goes to heck, Russia will only have one other naval base it could use to protect or invade other countries.

Anyway, no matter who started it or who's right or wrong... millions of people are homeless and dying.


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2016)

Luutzu, Grasshopper, dude.... I realize why you might feel some affinity with these people, but your people and these people are worlds apart in terms of congruency of attitude. Think about that.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> Russia will of course step in.. .as Tisme said a while back, they have a lot of investment in Syria. That and I heard Mearsheimer or other saying Syria, like the Crimea, holds great strategic and security interests for Russia - if Syria goes West or goes to heck, Russia will only have one other naval base it could use to protect or invade other countries.




That's Russia's problem.



> Anyway, no matter who started it or who's right or wrong... millions of people are homeless and dying.




Yes, but the blame should be put at the appropriate place and those most at fault should pay their fair share of cleaning it up.


----------



## Tisme (8 February 2016)

Interesting how the author rightly (imo) points out the "homosexual pederast" as a culture that, in Pakistan, feeds off Christian children's lives.

Hard to admire their cricket team, when things like this are implicitly state sanctioned:


http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/rape-and-murder-pakistan’s-christian-children


----------



## Tisme (8 February 2016)

Those Jews are wily critters:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...zi-perfect-Aryan-poster-child-was-Jewish.html


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> Luutzu, Grasshopper, dude.... I realize why you might feel some affinity with these people, but your people and these people are worlds apart in terms of congruency of attitude. Think about that.




Sifu, it was observed that all children of all the states of the world cry the same cry at birth. As they grow and adapt to the language and the customs of their country that they become "different". Hence, all appearances are just that, appearances - deep down we are all the same: Selfish, greedy, sometimes nice little monkey who thought God has a special place in His heart for them because they can shape a deadlier spear and is not afraid to use it.

Yes I know, we Asians are a bit lucky in that we seem so small and nice and timid. Not threatening at all. You probably haven't hang around too many Asians.

I grew up with Asians and also know and deal with Muslims and Arabs too. I actually prefer to deal with Arabs.


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> That's Russia's problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but the blame should be put at the appropriate place and those most at fault should pay their fair share of cleaning it up.




It's Russia's and our problem since "we" want Syria's Assad to fall and the Russians doesn't think like we do.

Yea, they shouldn't skirt their humanitarian obligations, or avoid cleaning up the mess... should be just like the US taking in all 10,000 Syrian refugees.


----------



## Tisme (8 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> I grew up with Asians and also know and deal with Muslims and Arabs too. I actually prefer to deal with Arabs.




Noooooo! Say it isn't so!!!!  Make sure you check to see if they have sharpened their horns before you play any games with them.


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

Tisme said:


> Noooooo! Say it isn't so!!!!  Make sure you check to see if they have sharpened their horns before you play any games with them.




They're all the same, especially their tradies - always try to shift you and deny it with a laugh when you caught them... alright I'll do you a favour boss. haha

You should be friend with Muslims. That way you can make fun of their names. It's almost as funny as the Asian names. Omar-ther, where are you; Where's your neck Mustafa? spit, spit spray as you talk to them. Too bad they all turn IS and I have to be afraid of them now.


----------



## Tisme (8 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> They're all the same, especially their tradies - always try to shift you and deny it with a laugh when you caught them... alright I'll do you a favour boss. haha
> 
> .





We talking about Pakehas and Coconuts or Arabs?


----------



## wayneL (8 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> Sifu, it was observed that all children of all the states of the world cry the same cry at birth. As they grow and adapt to the language and the customs of their country that they become "different". Hence, all appearances are just that, appearances - deep down we are all the same: Selfish, greedy, sometimes nice little monkey who thought God has a special place in His heart for them because they can shape a deadlier spear and is not afraid to use it.
> 
> Yes I know, we Asians are a bit lucky in that we seem so small and nice and timid. Not threatening at all. You probably haven't hang around too many Asians.
> 
> I grew up with Asians and also know and deal with Muslims and Arabs too. I actually prefer to deal with Arabs.




I'm small and timid grasshopper, so asians don't seem small and timid ro me. Its not about appearance at all, or even religion, I have friends  from most races and religions as do most of us here in Australia.

As you rightly point out its about custom, taught behaviours and how those might interact with our taught behaviours.I stand by my comment.


----------



## dutchie (8 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> How does a Muslim refugee raping a child mean multiculturalism does not work?




How does a Muslim refugee raping a child not show that multiculturalism does not work?


----------



## SirRumpole (8 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> How does a Muslim refugee raping a child not show that multiculturalism does not work?




Rather small sample size wouldn't you say ?


----------



## wayneL (8 February 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Rather small sample size wouldn't you say ?



Cologne new years eve was larger ;-)


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> I'm small and timid grasshopper, so asians don't seem small and timid ro me. Its not about appearance at all, or even religion, I have friends  from most races and religions as do most of us here in Australia.
> 
> As you rightly point out its about custom, taught behaviours and how those might interact with our taught behaviours.I stand by my comment.




The meek may inherit the Earth, but not its kebabs then Sifu.

btw, you should try a proper kebab, ones from a restaurant with proper sauce and grilled meat - lamb is nice. The fish, chips and kebab place are like the McDonalds - only good if you like bottled water 

Customs and etiquette are very superficial in the grand scheme of a person's character. There are differences, of course, but nothing a fine or threat of a big stick won't change in a hurry.

Should stand by your comment until it's proven false. Won't be proven to you until you meet a few Muslims.


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

Tisme said:


> We talking about Pakehas and Coconuts or Arabs?




No brother. Fully sick. 100 percent Allah Akbar Muslims.

But given the schools I went to was the finest NSW's public education can offer, that and their non Christian names, they were probably not that White on the inside. Though such disease can be quite sudden and insidious - the dude may go watch a Michael Bay movie or two, pay attention in school and History class, watch the news and read the papers and next minute he's on a plane with the ADF to Iraq liberating it - for real. 

But who knows, they might just go into business and raise a dozen kids by now - just like the Catholics. Wait a minute...

I could really get into trouble with these. Dam Irish... first it's the IRA, then it's the tax shelters for multinationals, now it's the yellow/brown guy.


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> How does a Muslim refugee raping a child not show that multiculturalism does not work?




I thought rapists, predators and other criminals do not care about their victim's race - it's more of an opportunity thing for those sick bastards.

Are child rapists and molestors only of Arab origin? If there's a handful of "White" criminals go around, should we say that Australia is just not working? If schools have a few failed or violent kids among their classes, should we say the school does not work at all?


----------



## luutzu (8 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> Luutzu, Grasshopper...




For you Sifu 

Couldn't find a good picture of David Carradine so thought I'd go for the man who was meant to play that role.

How funny that Hollywood rejected Bruce Lee for the role because he was "too Asian". Can't make that stuff up.


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> Should stand by your comment until it's proven false. Won't be proven to you until you meet a few Muslims.




And what makes you think I haven't? One of my best friends is Muslim, when we were both in London at the same time, we used to go over to Southall to meals at the Muslim restaurants all the time. Dammit I could bore you sh1tless with the number of friends and acquaintances


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> For you Sifu
> 
> Couldn't find a good picture of David Carradine so thought I'd go for the man who was meant to play that role.
> 
> How funny that Hollywood rejected Bruce Lee for the role because he was "too Asian". Can't make that stuff up.




Nice, Bruce was the Ducks Nuts.

There are may things in Hollywood that make us all shake our head, but it must be remembered that the show's character, Kwai Chang Caine, is the orphaned son of an American man, Thomas Henry Caine, and a Chinese woman, Kwai Lin.


----------



## dutchie (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> How does a Muslim refugee raping a child mean multiculturalism does not work?




Western culture abhors paedophiles.


----------



## dutchie (9 February 2016)

'It takes two to tango': As 12 Asian men are jailed for 140 years for gang-raping a 13-year-old white girl, Muslim councillor admits some in community still think SHE was partly to blame 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ess-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html#ixzz3zc0S1SNH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> Are child rapists and molestors only of Arab origin?




If you visited the middle east I think you would soon realise there is definitely a cultural difference between what we consider child molestation and child rape and what the locals consider disturbing. I would go so far as to suggest that sexual encounters for men include any gender and a wide spectrum of ages....... odd really because that supposes a vast percentage of men there possess the congenital fag/kiddy fiddler gene.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> 'It takes two to tango': As 12 Asian men are jailed for 140 years for gang-raping a 13-year-old white girl, Muslim councillor admits some in community still think SHE was partly to blame
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ess-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html#ixzz3zc0S1SNH
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




I think I would vote for a return of public flogging for these sort of offences.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2016)

Tisme said:


> If you visited the middle east I think you would soon realise there is definitely a cultural difference between what we consider child molestation and child rape and what the locals consider disturbing. I would go so far as to suggest that sexual encounters for men include any gender and a wide spectrum of ages....... odd really because that supposes a vast percentage of men there possess the congenital fag/kiddy fiddler gene.




Child abuse Royal Commission into the Islamic church ?


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Child abuse Royal Commission into the Islamic church ?




They wouldn't do that ... it might offend billions of potential suicide bombers and cut throats. Better ro give them ghettos where they can set up Sharia Law enclaves


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> Nice, Bruce was the Ducks Nuts.
> 
> There are may things in Hollywood that make us all shake our head, but it must be remembered that the show's character, Kwai Chang Caine, is the orphaned son of an American man, Thomas Henry Caine, and a Chinese woman, Kwai Lin.
> 
> View attachment 65811




So they reject Bruce Lee because they want to stay true to character now?

Bruce was mixed race Sifu. His father was Chinese but his mother was half Chinese and half Spanish or some other European race. So he would fit more to the character. That and maybe he actually know Kung Fu, and he actually was the guy that came up with the idea for that series.

But ey, it's better in Hollywood now. Now we get Asian characters like the Dragon Ballz or the Air Bender and the main character is all White or White and Indian for some reason.

So will be sticking with the Dragon Sifu.


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

wayneL said:


> And what makes you think I haven't? One of my best friends is Muslim, when we were both in London at the same time, we used to go over to Southall to meals at the Muslim restaurants all the time. Dammit I could bore you sh1tless with the number of friends and acquaintances




I take it your Muslim friend isn't really a Muslim? Or he/she is a good Muslim, not like them other billion who are the typical Muslim.

Was at Lake Illawara last weekend and overheard a small group of young mothers saying something like that too Sifu. They just talk about other unwed, young mothers who got pregnant at 16 or 17 "just for the paycheck". One of their friends said, oi... I was pregnant at 17 but the other said... no no, I don't mean you, we know you didn't do it for that... it's just girls nowadays.

Might sound a bit ridiculous when you heard other people saying the same stuff you're saying sometimes, right Sifu?


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

dutchie said:


> Western culture abhors paedophiles.




If you abhor it, and they all do it like you say... wouldn't it make sense to bring them to a place where it is abhorred and a prison full of molested inmates will beat the bejesus out of any paedophiles. Save the kids, lock up the crims.

I've only glance at ME history and already could see that in all the countries there, Mother Britiania and Uncle Sam kinda give guns and directions to rebels (terrorists?) to overthrow secular, democratic regimes. When the progressive gov't goes down, dictators and medicine man comes up, harsh religious laws become customary and we in the West point to our finger at their barbaric religion and culture and people.

Don't know, if I have enough muscle and guns and force a tyrant on a people at literally gun point; then that tyrant do what tyrants do... I'd probably have a lot to be blamed for. No? Clean hands as always?


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

Tisme said:


> If you visited the middle east I think you would soon realise there is definitely a cultural difference between what we consider child molestation and child rape and what the locals consider disturbing. I would go so far as to suggest that sexual encounters for men include any gender and a wide spectrum of ages....... odd really because that supposes a vast percentage of men there possess the congenital fag/kiddy fiddler gene.




Takes a brave, or suicidal, person to visit the ME now doesn't it? I might be deported and exiled the moment I check in at those airport.

I know they do get married early there; in remote villages for sure, earlier. Child molestation and rape... who knows. Maybe it's so evident to you because you being White and their sex traffickers thought all White people like that stuff so brought it to your attention. Not possible? They just rape kids and stuff everywhere you look?

I guess that's why we must all take up the White Man's burden and civilised these savages then right?


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> I guess that's why we must all take up the White Man's burden and civilised these savages then right?




What they do in other country is one thing, what they do in this country is another.

But sure, if you got into the homes of a lot of Muslims you may find things you don't want to hear. Of course incest, child exploitation and such goes on in most communities, but the degree of it in each is pretty well hidden.


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> I guess that's why we must all take up the White Man's burden and civilised these savages then right?




Yep it's a hard row to hoe, but must needs and all that. Nobody could possibly understand the load on a true white man's shoulders .... you've never seen a Nordic muslim with gelignite strapped to his chest right?


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> What they do in other country is one thing, what they do in this country is another.
> 
> But sure, if you got into the homes of a lot of Muslims you may find things you don't want to hear. Of course incest, child exploitation and such goes on in most communities, but the degree of it in each is pretty well hidden.




It was so bad back in the sixties that the Brits had to build compounds to keep the local men away from the UK airmen's children and women in places like Libya. 



> Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).




Larry Pickering is always good for a stir:

http://pickeringpost.com/story/the-islamic-age-of-consent/2746


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> What they do in other country is one thing, what they do in this country is another.
> 
> But sure, if you got into the homes of a lot of Muslims you may find things you don't want to hear. Of course incest, child exploitation and such goes on in most communities, but the degree of it in each is pretty well hidden.




Of course. If you live in people's house, it's their rules. So things that may be acceptable in their culture but completely clashes with Western law then it ought to be banned for them too.

Pretty sure all ethnic kids appreciate Western ways of sending kids to their room as opposed to giving them a good whooping. The older folks appreciate things like being able to laugh at politicians and not get dragged away.


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

Tisme said:


> Yep it's a hard row to hoe, but must needs and all that. Nobody could possibly understand the load on a true white man's shoulders .... you've never seen a Nordic muslim with gelignite strapped to his chest right?




At one time or other, all other races and cultures have taken on similar burdens McTisme.

The Greeks conquer their neighbours and coined the term "barbarians" for those non-Greek speaking Persians didn't they? The Persian did have a fair run civilising the region and show those nomads how to live (or die); the Carthaginians and most of the Mediterraneans and N/Africa; then of course the Romans taking on that Burden...

On the far side of the world, the Chinese did similar things for a couple thousands years before they met their match with the White man who's at it and take the burden more seriously with cannons and opiums and the good book. 

Keep civilising this way and there might not be much of a world left to civilise.


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2016)

luutzu said:


> At one time or other, all other races and cultures have taken on similar burdens McTisme.
> 
> The Greeks conquer their neighbours and coined the term "barbarians" for those non-Greek speaking Persians didn't they? The Persian did have a fair run civilising the region and show those nomads how to live (or die); the Carthaginians and most of the Mediterraneans and N/Africa; then of course the Romans taking on that Burden...
> 
> ...




Yeah but the gulf between 21st Century Australia and 7th Century Middle East is getting ever larger, with no convergence in sight. 

You know yourself that the Vietnamese have been exposed to Western culture ever since Nguyen Anh asked the French in the late 1700s to pitch into the unification of Vietnam. Acculturation was relatively smooth, unlike the fricken Poms and the latest wannabes.

The other mob resist assimilation and cultural uptake because they are stuck back in the good old days when the Oirish missionaries were looking for fertile minds in England and prophets were everywhere in empty cradles of civilisation badlands.


----------



## luutzu (9 February 2016)

Tisme said:


> Yeah but the gulf between 21st Century Australia and 7th Century Middle East is getting ever larger, with no convergence in sight.
> 
> You know yourself that the Vietnamese have been exposed to Western culture ever since Nguyen Anh asked the French in the late 1700s to pitch into the unification of Vietnam. Acculturation was relatively smooth, unlike the fricken Poms and the latest wannabes.
> 
> The other mob resist assimilation and cultural uptake because they are stuck back in the good old days when the Oirish missionaries were looking for fertile minds in England and prophets were everywhere in empty cradles of civilisation badlands.




Didn't a few members posted pictures of a few ME countries in the 50s where Arab women were wearing skirts, going to universities and working... all before ahem... Western influence kinda thought it'd be easier to deal with one dictator than a free press with elected officials and all them educated people.

Not that big a gulf between Australia and the ME. We're just more officially a colony of the two great empires(one "Great" and one was once great but now a lieutenant) whereas the ME are more troublesome colonies with jihadists and all them brown people who don't like their stuff taken from them.

See, it's better to just surrender officially. Then propaganda and other illusions will do the work so we think we're all free. Just like the Japanese, S.Korean, Saudi Arabian and Australian thinking they actually run and own their place. It's not at all a coupe when one of their leaders thought to remove American bases got removed; or the PM wanting to tax the big resources companies also got remove... 

---
Yes, the Vietnamese quickly assimilate didn't they? At first they all thought they're just one people but the French kinda thought no, you're three different people, just as different as the Laos and the Cambodians - that you're all Indo-Chinese, a halfbred between Indians and Chinese? But to be fair, the Southern Viets did liberate the Cambodians off of their land so they're all the same and different?


----------



## nickg198 (9 February 2016)

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----------



## Tisme (10 February 2016)

Not hard to consider some Arabs might not want to include Americans in any multiculturalism


http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/01/abu-ghraib/#


----------



## DB008 (24 February 2016)

*Germany: Migrant Crime Skyrockets​*



> Migrants committed 208,344 crimes in 2015, according to a confidential police report that was leaked to the German newspaper, Bild. This figure represents an 80% increase over 2014 and works out to around 570 crimes committed by migrants every day, or 23 crimes each hour, between January and December 2015.
> 
> The actual number of migrant crimes is far higher, however, because the report, produced by the Federal Criminal Police Office (Bundeskriminalamt, BKA), includes only crimes that have been solved (aufgeklÃ¤rten Straftaten). According to Statista, the German statistics agency, on average only around half of all crimes committed in Germany in any given year are solved (AufklÃ¤rungsquote). This implies that the actual number of crimes committed by migrants in 2015 may exceed 400,000.
> 
> ...




http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime​
208,344 crimes in 2015  - that figure sounds a bit high?

208,344 / 365 = 570 crimes per day. Seems like a lot.


----------



## DB008 (25 February 2016)

*Hungary to hold referendum on EU's refugee quotas​*


> Hungary has called an anti-immigration referendum aimed at stopping Brussels and Berlin forcing it to take in refugees under any EU quota schemes.
> 
> The hardline prime minister, Viktor OrbÃ¡n, called the plebiscite – and is certain to win it – in a preemptive strike against the European commission and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, who are pushing for a permanent EU refugee quota system. The proposals will be fought over at two EU summits within three weeks.
> 
> ...




More on link below...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/24/hungary-viktor-orban-will-call-referendum-on-eu-refugee-quotas​


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2016)

DB008 said:


> *Germany: Migrant Crime Skyrockets​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not at all I have lived in migration suburbs and even excluding drug dealing, this is actually quite low for the german population.It will get much much worse but as it did in France, But the crime rate will decline by making sure it does not get reported.


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## dutchie (5 March 2016)

Multiculturalism means, becoming a Muslim country, for the hosts.

German swimming pool where two migrant sex attacks have been carried out says it has been forced to segregate men and women 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...forced-segregate-men-women.html#ixzz420gi7Ug0


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## luutzu (7 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> Multiculturalism means, becoming a Muslim country, for the hosts.
> 
> German swimming pool where two migrant sex attacks have been carried out says it has been forced to segregate men and women
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...forced-segregate-men-women.html#ixzz420gi7Ug0




dam. And I was somewhat adjusting to the idea of having to learn Mandarin.


----------



## dutchie (9 March 2016)

Five migrants arrested for 'groping 12-year-old girl in German swimming pool after blocking a water slide and sexually assaulting her while she was stuck on it'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-waterslide-pools-Cologne.html#ixzz42LRW8ZoM



Leaked police report reveals a spike in migrant crime in Germany... and warns that sex attacks, violence and radicalisation will rise even further 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...adicalisation-rise-further.html#ixzz42LRgq2wJ



Women are warned not to go out alone at night in Swedish town after multiple sex attacks by ‘foreigners’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ple-sex-attacks-foreigners.html#ixzz42LT4GBXx



Some types of "Multiculturalism" just don't work - lock up your daughters.


----------



## luutzu (9 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> Five migrants arrested for 'groping 12-year-old girl in German swimming pool after blocking a water slide and sexually assaulting her while she was stuck on it'
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-waterslide-pools-Cologne.html#ixzz42LRW8ZoM
> 
> ...




Nasty culture and religion and people aren't these Muslims? 

I mean, no other culture or religion or race had ever ever commit such heinous crimes... and if crimes were committed, their leader and religious guru will definitely not cover them up at all.

Bloody Muslims and their crazy religion worshipping the same Allah, the same God as the noble White race of people. In Western civilized societies, when the rape and abuse of children are known, all those who hear it would get upset... except in Islam when they all must agree and condone the rape or murder of people [??].


... I tried to think things through for you Dutch. Couldn't carry it through because it doesn't make sense mate.


----------



## dutchie (9 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> ... I tried to think things through for you Dutch. Couldn't carry it through because it doesn't make sense mate.




Don't worry luutzu, you will join the dots one day.


----------



## wayneL (9 March 2016)

Grasshopper Grasshopper! You seem to be defending Islamic immigrants on the basis of generic non white cultures and religions v white culture and religion. This is naively erroneous.

If we look at the interplay between European culture and religion and Far Eastern culture and religion, it is largely congruous... basically we get on pretty good really. However there is a section of Middle Eastern religion and culture which is incongruous with the goal and values of Western (and Far Eastern) culture.

This is the crux of the matter, it is not about "immigrants", is is about fundamental Islamism. 

You're a smart cookie you should be able to make that discernment


----------



## luutzu (9 March 2016)

wayneL said:


> Grasshopper Grasshopper! You seem to be defending Islamic immigrants on the basis of generic non white cultures and religions v white culture and religion. This is naively erroneous.
> 
> If we look at the interplay between European culture and religion and Far Eastern culture and religion, it is largely congruous... basically we get on pretty good really. However there is a section of Middle Eastern religion and culture which is incongruous with the goal and values of Western (and Far Eastern) culture.
> 
> ...




Sifu, how's the weather up North? Hot as heck down here... almost like climate change or some weather phenomenon raising the Earth's average temperature by two degrees above its average all over the place.

I'm not defending Islamic anything or anyone. Some of them don't need defending, others can't be defended... kinda like all group of people really.

I would say that Islam have a lot more in common with Christianity and Judaism than with any other culture/religion. For one, came from the same tribe all within a few kilometres square. Two, all worship the exact same God, just different frills and miracles and prophets and leading men and dress code.

So I think the clash of civilisation between Christians and Muslims and Jews are mainly because they're so similar they want to be different. For the masses, it's about race and who's God's favourite. For the politicians, well you can't exactly take over people's country and say you do it because they got oil and no arms. So say you do it to liberate and free and civilise and all those stuff all empires tend to say. 

I mean, if these followers read their Bible and Koran and the Old Testament... they're literally from the one dude God/Allah/God [?] created. 

That and Europe, ME, Africa being so close together, being run by one or two or three Imperial power at one time or another as all colonies... you guys, except for the White blue eyes blond ones that was late to the party, all look exactly the same. 

------

I know it's hard to believe, but religion and culture and skin colour are all very superficial differences. Scratch a bit below these different holidays and time of prayer, all people are the same: selfish, self-interested monkies just smart enough to advance scientific discoveries and its peaceful appliations from trying to figure out deadlier ways to destroy each other and the environment that made their lives possible.

But of course too dumb to realise it does them and the world no good when some have too much they're going on diets or have a tenth holiday mansions while others are lucky if they have enough water and some bread for the day.


----------



## luutzu (9 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> Don't worry luutzu, you will join the dots one day.




I doubt that. And if I were join the dots like you have, you wouldn't like all the conclusions that comes from it. Neither will I.

For example, a blue eyed, blond-haired true blue Aussie Bishop rape a few kids and the upper rank covers it up. I would then have to conclude, as you would once you join these dots, that all blued eyed, blond haired Christians are rapist and pedophile.

If some Asian somewhere commit some crime, I would then have to go on the run or hand myself in because I obviously am also guilty and condone such crime.

Maybe that's why I never want to connect those dots right?

----

I don't want to be smart and stuff but maybe try to imagine a few a holes in the world looking and having the same name you yourself. Just because they're a holes and they look like you, goes to the same Church or live on the same street as you, are you guys buddies and brothers and believe and do the same things?


----------



## wayneL (10 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> Sifu, how's the weather up North? Hot as heck down here... almost like climate change or some weather phenomenon raising the Earth's average temperature by two degrees above its average all over the place.
> 
> I'm not defending Islamic anything or anyone. Some of them don't need defending, others can't be defended... kinda like all group of people really.
> 
> ...




Grasshopper, you have so many issues. Stopping segueing in 10,000 tangents and not addressing the actual point.

Yes there are tensions between groups, but generally most don't come here and expressly desire to destroy the system and establish Sharia (or their own law). Most come here and think it's pretty darn good and embrace the new culture (while not necessarily forsaking their own). Nobody is planning terrorist attacks or changing the hard fought for equality and liberty our women have achieved...

...except for one group.

Wake up Grasshopper!


----------



## Tisme (10 March 2016)

Luutzu = 







> I mean, if these followers read their Bible and Koran and the Old Testament... they're literally from the one dude God/Allah/God [?] created.




So where do atheists fit in who don't like savages and their baby making cows working against civilised communities?


----------



## luutzu (10 March 2016)

Tisme said:


> Luutzu =
> 
> So where do atheists fit in who don't like savages and their baby making cows working against civilised communities?




When it come to the Irish, maybe the God-less hippies ought to go talk to some. Then come to know that the reason them Irish Catholics "cows" have many offspring because they their religion forbid contraception and their husband can get drunk sometimes... that them having a big family is not some grand plan all housewives and drunken hooligans somehow got together to strategise for world domination.

They will also tell you that the reason their ancestors leave Ireland was the Potato Famine made it unlivable. Countless of their countrymen have died and their corpses be eaten by dogs and wild animals; that the famine happened had very little to do with the men's love for a Guinness and John Wallker weren't even around then.

The attack on civilised communities... well it was a bit more complicated since the Red Coats and British Imperialism weren't that nice and a few lad did join the IRA and other freedom fighter/terrorist groups. But now that they're in a peaceful land where only a few racist and "natives" discriminate, life is pretty good and booze are to drink, not for molotove cocktails anymore.

Oh, and if it's the Arabs... similar story. Without the booze.


----------



## luutzu (10 March 2016)

wayneL said:


> Grasshopper, you have so many issues. Stopping segueing in 10,000 tangents and not addressing the actual point.
> 
> Yes there are tensions between groups, but generally most don't come here and expressly desire to destroy the system and establish Sharia (or their own law). Most come here and think it's pretty darn good and embrace the new culture (while not necessarily forsaking their own). Nobody is planning terrorist attacks or changing the hard fought for equality and liberty our women have achieved...
> 
> ...




I thought there was also an earlier group, fresh of a couple Fleet.

Aren't there always some extreme "my way or the high way" in every community? Has Sharia Law passed? Are there Arabic writings on them Arab/Muslim ghettos? Even their shops have two languages, one of them being English to attract infidels like myself and part my money for their goods.

Of course there are tensions. And I'm pretty sure no Muslims/Arabs like their country or country of their ancestors being bombed and them here being treated like terrorist or would be terrorists or foreigners in the country of their birth. But most of them will go on and see that that's part of life... can't convert everyone to Allah's way right?


----------



## Tisme (10 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> When it come to the Irish, maybe the God-less hippies ought to go talk to some. Then come to know that the reason them Irish Catholics "cows" have many offspring because they their religion forbid contraception and their husband can get drunk sometimes... that them having a big family is not some grand plan all housewives and drunken hooligans somehow got together to strategise for world domination.
> 
> They will also tell you that the reason their ancestors leave Ireland was the Potato Famine made it unlivable. Countless of their countrymen have died and their corpses be eaten by dogs and wild animals; that the famine happened had very little to do with the men's love for a Guinness and John Wallker weren't even around then.
> 
> ...




Wot???? 

Mate I'm hardly culturally Irish .... my family history is old skool Oz on all four sides. Having dumbarse blood coursing through my veins is something I hope has diluted over the generations (as he carefully, but gracefully meanders to the safe exit door). But if you want to go there; if it takes one to know one, then don't discount the pearls of wisdom provided.


----------



## wayneL (10 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> I thought there was also an earlier group, fresh of a couple Fleet.





....and you do not find that instructional ?


----------



## luutzu (10 March 2016)

Tisme said:


> Wot????
> 
> Mate I'm hardly culturally Irish .... my family history is old skool Oz on all four sides. Having dumbarse blood coursing through my veins is something I hope has diluted over the generations (as he carefully, but gracefully meanders to the safe exit door). But if you want to go there; if it takes one to know one, then don't discount the pearls of wisdom provided.




Taking it like a gentleman there Tisme. Maybe them green and orange has diluted


----------



## luutzu (10 March 2016)

wayneL said:


> ....and you do not find that instructional ?




haha... you got a sense of humour Sifu?

All jokes aside, I think we all agree our beliefs on Muslims and Islamic terrorism, clash of civlisation and all that... they do have grave consequences for literally hundreds of millions of people. And that is just the first strike. The blowback will come and us plebs without security details are the ones to bear it.

As some slave owning American once said, a free people must keep eternal vigilance not only against foreign foes but also against the encroachment of its gov't. 

Getting us to look upon people whose cities are destroyed, whose people are literally starving to death... as some sort of animal and potential murderers... the next step to anything can e directed to without any effort at all.


----------



## dutchie (12 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> Nasty culture and religion and people aren't these Muslims?




I think you might be right there luutzu.

‘Cologne is every day’: Europe’s rape epidemic

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...c/news-story/e2e618e17ad4400b5ed65045e65e141d


----------



## luutzu (13 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> I think you might be right there luutzu.
> 
> ‘Cologne is every day’: Europe’s rape epidemic
> 
> ...




The article did say alleged right? 

Anyway, have said it before... find the rapist and criminals and deport them. Even find non-genuine refugees and dismiss their status. No one ever defend rape or excuse violence and criminal behaviour. So why are we making it out like I or anyone would condone these because it's done by Muslims?

It's written in the UN charter and I've heard it is international law that when people claim they are persecuted etc., when they put forward a claim for asylum... they are legally entitled to a fair hearing. That is, they do not break any law by "illegally" entering a country seeking asylum.

If we can't justify sending them back to where they came from on moral grounds, well can't do it on legal ground either. ANd using economic justification is a bit uncool when you don't use economic as a reason for wanting to leave.

btw...




don't know what reason they have to want to leave a perfectly liveable place like Syria is past five years.

--------


As an aside... what does a person have to do or not do to have their actions recorded as representative of their "people"?

The good deeds only? The Bad and terrible ones? If they're big and rich enough?

Don't know about you, but things I do I kind of take credit for them. Even when I don't want to take the blame, people tend to just blame me for my actions. So what the heil?


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> The article did say alleged right?
> 
> Anyway, have said it before... find the rapist and criminals and deport them. Even find non-genuine refugees and dismiss their status. No one ever defend rape or excuse violence and criminal behaviour. So why are we making it out like I or anyone would condone these because it's done by Muslims?
> 
> ...





I find it a bit strange why the Muslim refugees don't go to Muslim countries, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, but travel further distances to get to the West. 

Surely that's a sign of economic entrepreneurship  and it doesn't reflect well on the charity of the Muslim brotherhood.


----------



## luutzu (13 March 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> I find it a bit strange why the Muslim refugees don't go to Muslim countries, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, but travel further distances to get to the West.
> 
> Surely that's a sign of economic entrepreneurship  and it doesn't reflect well on the charity of the Muslim brotherhood.




From what I've read and interviews watched, they have, most are still there.

The crisis we're seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg. The other part we don't see, and so don't care for, are tens of millions of refugees flooding to the nearest (Arab) neighbours. It is only when those countries and their camps and resources are exhausted and they no longer accept refugees that the recent ones make their way to Europe.

There are, from memory, some 1 million Syrian refugees in Iraq. They flee to Iraq because, I'm guessing, it's the closest safer haven compare to Syria of recent years.

Then Lebanon have some 3 to 4 million [?]; Similar figures in Jordan... and Turkey have a fair number of refugees from Syria too. I think Iran have some 2 million Iraqi refugees.

It's the same with other African countries... they all flee to the nearest countries in Africa hoping the war would end soon. It's when the wars dragged on and on that more refugees were created and the camps nearby can no longer accommodate that they flood to Europe. 

But yes, I have not seen these kind of reports on the public/mainstream news channel. Maybe I don't watch much of it but the image we get are these are economic migrants (and rapist) wanting an easy life in Europe.

----

In the ME, there's war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Libya... the dust may just settled a couple years ago in Egypt; Turkey is in some sort of war on terror; All other ME kingdoms are involved one way or another in all these wars; Uncle Sam and Brittania and other coalition "partners"; then there's Russia in the ME and Russia and NATO in Eastern Europe.

In Africa there's Boko Harem and other groups... we haven't heard but it's busy enough that the US (in that drone report last year) are involved in an average of two "operations" per year across the entire continent there.

By a definition I was told way back in uni, this is what you'd call a World War... but I guess it's not proper to call it that.


One war is enough to be a crisis... but with all these wars going on for 5 to 15 years we're told that there really is no crisis, just "migrants" wanting a good life.

---
From a few experts, I've heard that Afghanistan is completely destroyed. The Taliban did a pretty good job ruining the place and killing people before the revenge on them took place. Since then, people now have to worry about both the Taliban and the Western allies and finding food and water and maybe not get kill trying to find work to earn something.

Iraq is all screwed. There's only certain "Green Zones" set up and guarded by and for US interests... so it's the main city areas and all the oil assets. The rest of the country can, and are, going to hell.

Yemen is practically starving to death. No water, no food and little aid. All imports to it are blocked by Saudis.

---

So in midst of all these wars and suffering, there's nothing to really see here except ungrateful economic migrants taking European jobs and raping their women and children.


----------



## dutchie (14 March 2016)

Multiculturalism does not work in Australia either.

Violent Sudanese-based 'Apex Gang' blamed for vicious riot which left the streets of Melbourne completely trashed

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...med-violent-Melbourne-riot.html#ixzz42pE1sH3R


----------



## Tisme (14 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> Multiculturalism does not work in Australia either.
> 
> Violent Sudanese-based 'Apex Gang' blamed for vicious riot which left the streets of Melbourne completely trashed
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...med-violent-Melbourne-riot.html#ixzz42pE1sH3R




It's all you fault dutchie and mine too, because we haven't made them feel welcomed. Free money, free welfare and free housing was never going to cut it, it's like trying to buy friendship...... these are a proud peoples from a far more advanced society than ours ... they are the Houyhnhnms and we are the Yahoos (we must be given our demonstrated collective stupidity).


----------



## dutchie (14 March 2016)

Tisme said:


> It's all you fault dutchie and mine too, because we haven't made them feel welcomed. Free money, free welfare and free housing was never going to cut it, it's like trying to buy friendship...... these are a proud peoples from a far more advanced society than ours ... they are the Houyhnhnms and we are the Yahoos (we must be given our demonstrated collective stupidity).




It's not* my* fault. I've seen the writing on the wall for quite a while.

There are lots of other countries who have also demonstrated collective stupidity.  Except Japan.


----------



## luutzu (14 March 2016)

Tisme said:


> It's all you fault dutchie and mine too, because we haven't made them feel welcomed. Free money, free welfare and free housing was never going to cut it, it's like trying to buy friendship...... these are a proud peoples from a far more advanced society than ours ... they are the Houyhnhnms and we are the Yahoos (we must be given our demonstrated collective stupidity).




You know what they say, if you want an empire you got to put up with a few of them last standing barbarians among paradise.

Can't, like, kill all of them. So will have to wait until they grow up and start mocking their own culture and hating all migrants and stuff.

----

Seriously though, if multiculturalism doesn't work, why are most of the people of various shades all get along just fine pretty much 365 days of the year.


----------



## DB008 (16 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> Multiculturalism does not work in Australia either.
> 
> Violent Sudanese-based 'Apex Gang' blamed for vicious riot which left the streets of Melbourne completely trashed
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...med-violent-Melbourne-riot.html#ixzz42pE1sH3R




Strip benefits
Deport

The left-wing ABC also managed to dodge this story for 2 days.


----------



## dutchie (22 March 2016)

*Seven*-year-old girl is gang-raped at an asylum centre in Germany as ‘five Arabic men’ are investigated 

(my bold)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ve-Arabic-men-investigated.html#ixzz43aVEXp9c

and yet there will still be people singing Kumbaya


----------



## Tisme (22 March 2016)

dutchie said:


> *Seven*-year-old girl is gang-raped at an asylum centre in Germany as ‘five Arabic men’ are investigated
> 
> (my bold)
> 
> ...




Where's Virginia and Michael when you need a good diversion away from the five confused Arabs and refocus on the govt in charge?    Obviously the girl ignored Crater Smith's advice and didn't read the Safe Schools program, which I assume includes advice on paedophiles and predators, et al?

Rebalance the perps' minds with an ounce or two of lead?


----------



## dutchie (23 March 2016)

Delingpole - "Angela Merkel is easily the most dangerous Chancellor Germany has had since 1945"

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...e-up-to-the-war-being-waged-against-the-west/


----------



## DB008 (24 March 2016)

*Poland refuses to accept refugees after Brussels attack​*


> Prime Minister Szydlo says it's "not possible" to honour refugee deal with EU after deadly ISIL attacks in Belgium.
> Poland's prime minister says his country is no longer prepared to take the 7,000 refugees it agreed to accept in negotiations with the European Union because of the deadly Brussels attacks.
> 
> Beata Szydlo said on Wednesday that she does "not see any possibility for the refugees to come to Poland" after explosions rocked the Belgian capital a day earlier, according to Polish broadcaster Superstacja.
> ...





http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/poland-refuses-accept-refugees-brussels-attack-160323132500564.html​


----------



## DB008 (24 March 2016)

Treason - *In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more extreme acts against one's nation or sovereign. *Historically, treason also covered the murder of specific social superiors, such as the murder of a husband by his wife or that of a master by his servant.

Angela Merkel - she should be charged with treason.




​


----------



## Wysiwyg (24 March 2016)

DB008 said:


> *Poland refuses to accept refugees after Brussels attack​*




Foremost concern would be the infiltration of extremists or the perpetuation of radical ideologies or revenge plotters against dorky al Assad. Sure there may not be any but it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the batch.


----------



## DB008 (29 March 2016)

The irony is completely lost on Sweden

*Sweden banning North American lobsters because they are acting as an invasive species, destroying and replacing European lobsters.​*
​


----------



## wayneL (29 March 2016)

Missus was in Europe in January.

Folks she spoke to said they were frightened by two things:

1/ The impact of Islam on their culture, vis a vis worry about the safety of their women.

2/ The rise of the far right in politics. Not the center right the leftists hete are so fond of calling far right, the REAL neo-Naziesque far right.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/14/11223852/german-state-election-2016

The poo is going to hit the propeller folks, mark my words.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (29 March 2016)

DB008 said:


> The irony is completely lost on Sweden




lol.  Not sure whether to laugh or cry about that.


----------



## luutzu (29 March 2016)

DB008 said:


> The irony is completely lost on Sweden
> 
> *Sweden banning North American lobsters because they are acting as an invasive species, destroying and replacing European lobsters.​*
> ​





Dude, those North American lobsters have big claws/clamps so of course they'll take over.

The refugees and illegals and jihadist got the clothes on their back and a few pick ups back home and some AK-47 somewhere... that and it was estimated that of all the refugees that "invaded" Europe last year, if all were resettled as refugees in Europe it'd be something like 0.001% of population of Europe.

So good luck to them trying to invade and take over. 

Just look at the ME, their home turf... They couldn't even invade them areas. Another group of peoples did a pretty good job though.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (29 March 2016)

It's still possible that the law abiding refugees amongst them will abandon their old ways and give up religion altogther.  That would be the optimal outcome.  A period of agnosis and no harm.


----------



## luutzu (29 March 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> It's still possible that the law abiding refugees amongst them will abandon their old ways and give up religion altogther.  That would be the optimal outcome.  A period of agnosis and no harm.




Religion don't tell people to go to war, it's the warmongers and warrior kings who uses religion, or democracy, or values, or blood purity... who send people to war. And they will only succeed if the circumstances make give people no option but to wage war or else die.

That is not to say that among the refugees are all nice or good people; or there are no terrorist or sympathisers among them. But that's why it will take some two years of vetting before any single one of them are permitted in as refugees or on humanitarian visas. And even then, if they break any law they'll be deported too.

We are being put in positions, being told things that leave very little room for other conclusions than they're all or mostly all bad, so let's be safe rather than sorry so screw all of them. Life's too short to think like that.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> Religion don't tell people to go to war,




Well you should read the Koran sometime:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx


----------



## luutzu (29 March 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Well you should read the Koran sometime:
> 
> http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx




I've read verses and posted them on this forum. Islam is just like Christianity and Judaism with slightly different flavour. But we've been through this religion stuff so let's not repeat.

On the religion and war... just an extension of politic by other means, as Clausewitz said. So if there's a need or a wish for war, war will go ahead and whatever is most convenient and most plausible at hand to explain it in more glorious terms then that's the proclaimed reason for war and all its murders.

American Civil War was fought to free the slave; War of Independence against Britain was for freedom of all men from tyranny; Iraq II was to free the Iraqis and also to rid the world of evil and WMD (the order of the rationale depends on what works best at the time too).

It'd be hard to get most people riled up enough to want to risk life and death trying to kill other people. So the masters of war can't do it through such reasons as 'cause I said so; 'cause you ought to make sacrifices so some of us can control more land and get more tax revenue and be remembered in history pages...

Anyway...


----------



## qldfrog (30 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> it was estimated that of all the refugees that "invaded" Europe last year, if all were resettled as refugees in Europe it'd be something like 0.001% of population of Europe.



basic arithmetic EU population:508 millions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_population
very conservative number of invaders last year:1 millon
1/508=0.2% so 2000 times higher than the figure you quote; 


add the fact that I doubt many of the invading hordes will go to Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia or Latvia
you end up with 4 or 5 countries with welfare  as destination /target for settlement;
so conservatively and left wing minded we have 250M of hosts ; then get real figures on migrants more like 1.5m  overall (remember the ships from Libia to Italy, etc?Guess what, they did not stop when merker did our treason
so a minimum of 1.5/250=0.6% last year some of these legal;


In a continent with unemployement at 10% already under attack from social and civil fracture

This has been going on for years , since the 1980's, and with second generation included, not sure who is the majority in headcount below 40y of age  (every single one of the bombers in Bruxelle/Paris were born in Europe from the first wave of the 80's)
40 years+ of uncontrolled migration + on going islamist sectarism  actually worsening and you end up at what Europe is now.
A bit like the Great Barrier Reef  
A little bit of attack here and there, a % here,  and with enough time and non action, a relatively swift death.
In any case, percentages are not that small.I have the feeling last year was the last drop


----------



## Tisme (30 March 2016)

luutzu said:


> I've read verses and posted them on this forum. Islam is just like Christianity and Judaism with slightly different flavour. But we've been through this religion stuff so let's not repeat.
> 
> On the religion and war... just an extension of politic by other means, as Clausewitz said. So if there's a need or a wish for war, war will go ahead and whatever is most convenient and most plausible at hand to explain it in more glorious terms then that's the proclaimed reason for war and all its murders.
> 
> ...




There's 500k muslim in OZ who each could take out 30+ good citizens, given the laws of diminishing returns. 

And unlike the new bible, their book demands and receives slavish obedience to the political, spiritual, cultural and barbarity demanded in its song and verse, one for fear of all too real retribution from a vast hoard of willinging assassins and brutalisers and two for wanting to.

Its not a whimsical threat Luutzu and it does not have parallels to regional conflicts, we are talking about a culture that has been brow beaten, tortured, bullied and cajoled for more than 90 generations.which is probably more than enough opportunity for evolutionary change in the brain to make obsequious obedience to fairytales and indecent customs a kernal of primal urges .


----------



## luutzu (30 March 2016)

Tisme said:


> There's 500k muslim in OZ who each could take out 30+ good citizens, given the laws of diminishing returns.
> 
> And unlike the new bible, their book demands and receives slavish obedience to the political, spiritual, cultural and barbarity demanded in its song and verse, one for fear of all too real retribution from a vast hoard of willinging assassins and brutalisers and two for wanting to.
> 
> Its not a whimsical threat Luutzu and it does not have parallels to regional conflicts, we are talking about a culture that has been brow beaten, tortured, bullied and cajoled for more than 90 generations.which is probably more than enough opportunity for evolutionary change in the brain to make obsequious obedience to fairytales and indecent customs a kernal of primal urges .




Five generations per hundred years. Multiply by 2 for 200 years since Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo and Britain was freed to rule the world and the ME... that makes it 10 generations of... hmmm... civilizing with a vengence. 

So where did your 90 generations came from?

ha ha

Look, I understand this ethno-centric worldview and biases... we all have them, and it's good to be proud of your ancestors, admire some of their great accomplishments, love your culture and religion and think it's just the bestest in the entire world. And like I have admitted before, there is a great deal to be proud of for Westerners.

But you know, there are things man... can't just ignore your bad stuff, look only at your good stuff as the "real you", explain away the not so bad stuff... can't do that and at the same time just focus on the other guy's bad people and bad bits as their entire people and civilisation.

I think Jesus Christ have a term for people like that.

That and I wouldn't be so quick to judge other people's moral principles when I'd rather their refugees, their women and children and old folks (we never care for the young men anyway right?)... can't tell the poor and needy to scram and in the same breath claim ourselves to be civilised and moral and all that good Christian value thing.

That and I wouldn't be blaming other people for crimes of war when my leadership kinda mock the UN and International Laws whenever it suits them; or starting war and invading other people's country on false pretenses and just shrugged...

---

Anyway... why don' we try this for a chance.

We, the West... we withdraw our liberation forces currently deployed all over the ME; We start to not prop up or replace their dictators or democratically elected leaders at our whim... 

Take back our arms, bring the troops home, spend a few hundred billions of them cash on our own citizens... 

Do that and see if the Arabs won't hate us so much.

Sure, maybe the Russians or the Chinese, or even the Indians will have to take up the burden... but at least the Arabs will not them other people so much right?


----------



## dutchie (5 April 2016)

I wonder how Merkel would feel if it was her son...

Two Afghanistan migrant men force 14-year-old boy to perform sex acts on them at a swimming pool in Germany

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acts-swimming-pool-Germany.html#ixzz44waDb9F6


----------



## Tisme (6 April 2016)

dutchie said:


> I wonder how Merkel would feel if it was her son...
> 
> Two Afghanistan migrant men force 14-year-old boy to perform sex acts on them at a swimming pool in Germany
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acts-swimming-pool-Germany.html#ixzz44waDb9F6




Seeing as this behaviour is an involuntary one (according to LGBT community and its slaves) perhaps we moral majority shouldn't be disgusted, but integrate these types (i.e. normalise their acts of depravity) into our society?

Personally I think eugenics has some merit, but that could be my personal shame at not accepting primitives as equal manifesting itself as abhorrence.  I must make more effort to accept the fact we live in the 21st century now and everything before was bad before the Y2K enlightenment.


----------



## DB008 (6 April 2016)

This was taken yesterday on the Macedonia border.



​

Why would you let these people into your country. Crazy if you ask me


----------



## sptrawler (6 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> Seeing as this behaviour is an involuntary one (according to LGBT community and its slaves) perhaps we moral majority shouldn't be disgusted, but integrate these types (i.e. normalise their acts of depravity) into our society?
> 
> Personally I think eugenics has some merit, but that could be my personal shame at not accepting primitives as equal manifesting itself as abhorrence.  I must make more effort to accept the fact we live in the 21st century now and everything before was bad before the Y2K enlightenment.




What about when the refugees you take in, outnumber the local population, as is happening in some smaller European countries?
All is well, as long as they want to adopt your beliefs and principals, what if they don't?
If it isn't a requirement to integrate, one can't complain when they decide to enforce their beliefs, when they are the majority.


----------



## luutzu (6 April 2016)

DB008 said:


> This was taken yesterday on the Macedonia border.
> 
> 
> View attachment 66212​
> ...




mmm... could be "Open or (we) Die"?

They're holding the peace sign with their fingers there dude.

I saw in other news smaller sign reading something like: if you send us back we die.

So, maybe bad English?


----------



## sptrawler (6 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> mmm... could be "Open or (we) Die"?
> 
> They're holding the peace sign with their fingers there dude.
> 
> ...




As usual, a good call Iuutzu.


----------



## qldfrog (7 April 2016)

sptrawler said:


> As usual, a good call Iuutzu.



hum not "as usual",Luutzu has a pink tinted set of glasses and a view affected by a personnal experience(with post vietnam migration) which is irrelevant.
My view is the blacked eye one resulting of living with and within muslim migration and paintful realisation of what it means...
But in that case, I indeed also believe the intended message is "or we will die/or we will kill ourselves..."

The photographer could not managed to insert a little girl and 2 grandmothers crying in from of the soldier, what is going on?
Ok, I am pressing triggers here....


----------



## Tisme (7 April 2016)

sptrawler said:


> What about when the refugees you take in, outnumber the local population, as is happening in some smaller European countries?
> All is well, as long as they want to adopt your beliefs and principals, what if they don't?
> If it isn't a requirement to integrate, one can't complain when they decide to enforce their beliefs, when they are the majority.




Yep all that. 

I don't get how there was no problem redefining the boundaries of the middle east post WWII and also setting up an island state where the Jews were herded into back then, but doing it now is not feasible.... unless you are Islamic and cut people's heads off for viral videos.

Imagine the global productivity expansion if the first world built a whole new country!!


----------



## luutzu (8 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> hum not "as usual",Luutzu has a pink tinted set of glasses and a view affected by a personnal experience(with post vietnam migration) which is irrelevant.
> My view is the blacked eye one resulting of living with and within muslim migration and paintful realisation of what it means...
> But in that case, I indeed also believe the intended message is "or we will die/or we will kill ourselves..."
> 
> ...




I know a fair number of Vietnamese, some are good, some are just normal, and there's a handful that's just messed up - and that's just law-abiding citizens and doesn't include your gangsters, small time and big time drug dealers and one dude who ordered Australia's first political assassination 

So no, I don't go by my experience that all refugees or migrants or people of certain religion or colour are good or bad, I go by facts and history.

Don't tell me you fell in love with a nice Muslim girl and she broke your heart qldfrog... I can't imagine someone feeling so much pain from experiences with a few a holes.


Here's are some missing photo... should really make good use of Google.com and images.google.com


----------



## qldfrog (9 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> So no, I don't go by my experience that all refugees or migrants or people of certain religion or colour are good or bad, I go by facts and history.



I go by both Luutzu


luutzu said:


> Don't tell me you fell in love with a nice Muslim girl and she broke your heart qldfrog... I can't imagine someone feeling so much pain from experiences with a few a holes.



You'd be surprised but I had to leave my country as the result of the invasion and its consequences..not a small thing, ask your parents if they'd like the comunist vietcong arriving by the millions in Australia?



luutzu said:


> Here's are some missing photo... should really make good use of Google.com and images.google.com
> 
> View attachment 66223
> View attachment 66224
> View attachment 66225



Ahh that is better


----------



## luutzu (10 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> I go by both Luutzu
> 
> You'd be surprised but I had to leave my country as the result of the invasion and its consequences..not a small thing, ask your parents if they'd like the comunist vietcong arriving by the millions in Australia?
> 
> ...




With all due respect, I don't think you realise the lessons of the Vietnam War regarding the conduct of war, propaganda and the casualties and other collateral damages.

Your beliefs, believe it or not, are the results of lessons our "masters" learnt from Vietnam. Have said it before but might be worth repeating and you tell me if it make sense... and of course these aren't my original thought, it's from bunch of stuff I watch and learn over the years....

1. The VN War was the first televised war Yes?. Almost live broadcast, daily reporting... images and visions of peasants being blown the bits, entire hamlets and villages being razed; carpet bombing; napalm lighting up the jungle; a crying little girl running down the road naked with all her clothes burnt off and skin charred from napalm; the My Lai massacre; monk lighting themself on fire protesting; 

-- When's the last time you see any similar images or news reporting similar event like that in any of the wars in the ME? Almost zero times right?

Why?

Maybe if we the people see the damages our weapons and drones brought; we'd be freaking upset and sick by it that we'd march down Parliament and demand those masters of war to stop this crap. 

So you can either believe that with "smart" bombs and high tech, we only kill the bad guys and everyone else just go on living as normal; Or you can believe that the birth defects in Iraq and cases of cancer from the weapons being use there... that's just the heat or Arab blood there causing the sickness; Or that we're doing all these for the greater good of the Arabs and liberating them.

We're generous and kind that way.

That or maybe the entire mainstream media and "intellectuals" are bought off and towing the line.



2. in the 60s and 70s... the American people march on to Washington right? Demanding civil rights; demanding peace; burning the draft cards and tell the generals and warrior kings where to go.

-- People all over the world did march against the Iraq war and that, according to Chomsky, spared the Iraqis from deadlier weapons in the arsenal... but in general, and particularly since they start hitting back.. there isn't much protest against wars there or much protest against the lost of privacy here at home, is there?

WHY?

Well, we're fighting evil terrorists; it's them evil cult or us civilised (Christian/Jewish) people etc. etc.

Who's going to argue against war on evil right?

There's no draft, so only the poor and the idealistic would go to war.. and if they die or harm, well I guess that's their problem for being poor and being too young and too naive they believe their politicians, right?

So no complaint, no protest, and "our" leaders are free to wage war abroad and cut back on their obligations at home... safety and security and priorities must be made... we guess.

----

Last I check, France is still being run by the French, not the Arabs or the Muslims. In fact, Muslims might not be doing too well there seeing how the burqa are outlawed or something right?

So maybe comparing them to the VC is a bit much. The VC actually run VN since the war ended.

Further, it might surprise you that maybe the refugees are fleeing the terrorists, fleeing ISIS and warlords. Even the economic refugees... definitely the economic refugees becuase if they're terrorists they'd still be back there because terrorism pays pretty well there, but not in France or the West.


Anyway, after all these 16 years... are we safer? Have we made any progress against war or terrorism?

Seems like we're just getting started. Good thing our economies and finances are strong and no emerging power dare stake claims all over the place or would go to war against us if we dare stop them reclaiming their glory days of empire.


----------



## qldfrog (10 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> With all due respect, I don't think you realise the lessons of the Vietnam War regarding the conduct of war, propaganda and the casualties and other collateral damages.
> 
> Your beliefs, believe it or not, are the results of lessons our "masters" learnt from Vietnam. Have said it before but might be worth repeating and you tell me if it make sense... and of course these aren't my original thought, it's from bunch of stuff I watch and learn over the years....
> 
> ...



as I have already said :a couple of billions of "Syrian" refugees to go and we will reach nirvana: a fully egalitarian society where people will starve, women will be raped and mutilated, christians and non believers crussified (sp?)  and free thinkers shot everywhere, what an achievement.
So close the borders, put economic barriers where it make sense, get out of ME, stop foreign aid and let people handle their own affairs be in in Irak, Europe, or here.
you will at least agree on one point!
in France multiculturalism did not work with the muslim culture and ended up destroying a country.I do not want this to happen here


----------



## luutzu (10 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> as I have already said :a couple of billions of "Syrian" refugees to go and we will reach nirvana: a fully egalitarian society where people will starve, women will be raped and mutilated, christians and non believers crussified (sp?)  and free thinkers shot everywhere, what an achievement.
> So close the borders, put economic barriers where it make sense, get out of ME, stop foreign aid and let people handle their own affairs be in in Irak, Europe, or here.
> you will at least agree on one point!
> in France multiculturalism did not work with the muslim culture and ended up destroying a country.I do not want this to happen here




If a person look at refugees and doesn't give a hoot about them, what make you think they'll look at any other group of people and feel that maybe something ought to be done to help those people?

If they look at people whose country and home are destroyed; whose family and relatives are either dead or scattered to the winds; whose livelihood is so non-existence that they'd sell everything they have and buy a ticket on a leaky boat or a floaty... If people can look at that and say, well they're illegals and economic migrants wanting welfare and freebies... what would make them look at fellow Australians, living in a peaceful and prosperous country with "all the opportunities" in the world... and thought maybe something "more" ought to be done to help them out of poverty?

A good society with good people doesn't start with kicking Muslims and illegal "immigrants" around. You start with that and all else will go down the tube.

---


Don't know about France but multiculturalism seem to work pretty well here in Australia. Even with Muslims and Arabs - they've been around here for at least a century right?

If Muslims or any group of people want to cause terror and other act of violence, if they do it because of their culture or their religion, you seriously think the authority can stop them?

If multiculturalism doesn't work in Australia, there'd be daily or weekly outbreak of violence; and there'll be more than a few concentration camps where the inmates have more in common than just coming over illegally.


To have peace and security... one way is to discriminate and get "tough" and deadly against one group of people; The other is to welcome them as part of the community and peacefully co-exist. 

Then just let that invisible hand of commerce, economics, trade, getting a job and law enforcement deal with those who does not get in line with the (legal) social norm.

Nothing new there... Australia is a multicultural society and it's working pretty well... so I don't get this "it's working since at least 1972, but it won't work because of the Muslims" stuff.


----------



## Tisme (10 April 2016)

Back in the day when it just wasn't cricket to resort to vulgar repertoire, authors used satire and parody to convey the god awful truth of the human stain.

e.g. we Eloi are currently being prepared as the first course for the burgeoning Morlocks.


----------



## qldfrog (10 April 2016)

to agreed with Luutzu from time to time, I found the following appalling:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/bitter-reward-for-father-who-alerted-fbi-to-his-sons-radicalisation-20160410-go2qyw.html


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## qldfrog (10 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> Back in the day when it just wasn't cricket to resort to vulgar repertoire, authors used satire and parody to convey the god awful truth of the human stain.
> 
> e.g. we Eloi are currently being prepared as the first course for the burgeoning Morlocks.




Definitively one where my multiculturalismdoes not work 
Let's google Morlocks..


----------



## SirRumpole (10 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> Definitively one where my multiculturalismdoes not work
> Let's google Morlocks..




H.G. Wells, The Time Machine. Morlocks were the primitive troglodytes inhabiting caves while the Eloi were the Enlightened Ones on the surface.

Very apt.


----------



## luutzu (10 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> Back in the day when it just wasn't cricket to resort to vulgar repertoire, authors used satire and parody to convey the god awful truth of the human stain.
> 
> e.g. we Eloi are currently being prepared as the first course for the burgeoning Morlocks.




Need talent for that work Tisme. I'm lucky I could write a complete sentence, sometime.


----------



## qldfrog (11 April 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> H.G. Wells, The Time Machine. Morlocks were the primitive troglodytes inhabiting caves while the Eloi were the Enlightened Ones on the surface.
> 
> Very apt.



Yes I actually searched after posting.  thanks. 
So should the Elois let the Morlocks move in  so that their enlighted view of the world can be praised when archeologists find their mass graves a few 1000's years later.
Very apt indeed.But eh what would I know?
Enjoy your week


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## luutzu (11 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> Yes I actually searched after posting.  thanks.
> So should the Elois let the Morlocks move in  so that their enlighted view of the world can be praised when archeologists find their mass graves a few 1000's years later.
> Very apt indeed.But eh what would I know?
> Enjoy your week




Know how you said it's better if our gov't and allies were to leave the ME alone to its natives? 

One of the reasons, if not the only reason, that most of us plebs don't mind so much seeing our tax dollars, our young blood and treasure are being spent there is, as we're told, because if we do not sacrifice our young and have them fight there, then all of us will have to fight them here.

In other words, we are told that these people are dangerous savages with nothing better to do all day than sitting around plotting to take over the mightiest, deadliest, most militarised, most nuclearised, most everything armies [plural] in the entire history of Man... all because the West is too cool and too rich and, well, haters gonna hate.

So it's beliefs that if we're not kind and brave enough to take on the burden to civilise and liberate the Muslims and Arabs in the ME, we'll be buried alive by them soon enough... it's that kind of beliefs that the wars there are still going strong - and will go for another 84 years at least by some idiot's estimate.

So it's kinda important that, one, if we don't like refugees or terrorists or wasting our blood and treasure destroying stuff... maybe starts with thinking that ey, why do they hate us so much and not hate the Japanese or the Chinese or the Indians.


Anyway...


----------



## sptrawler (11 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> , why do they hate us so much and not hate the Japanese or the Chinese or the Indians.
> 
> 
> Anyway...




Well that does beg the question, why don't they go to Japan , China or India for asylum?

Might be a dumb question.


----------



## qldfrog (12 April 2016)

sptrawler said:


> Well that does beg the question, why don't they go to Japan , China or India for asylum?
> 
> Might be a dumb question.



as if they liked Japan, China or India; Let's get real;
Pakistan is basically at war with India, China having his own terrorism and see what happens to Japaneses taken hostage there: no better to be Asian than European,
Not too many  bombs there as they do not let them in in the first place
Do not be fooled in thinking you would be safe Luutzu
Anyway,  how would i know as opposed to someone here in Australia who has never lived in Europe and seen the results of migration/so called multiculturalism when dealing with Muslim fundamentalists.


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## SirRumpole (12 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> as if they liked Japan, China or India; Let's get real;
> Pakistan is basically at war with India, China having his own terrorism and see what happens to Japaneses taken hostage there: no better to be Asian than European,
> Not too many  bombs there as they do not let them in in the first place
> Do not be fooled in thinking you would be safe Luutzu
> Anyway,  how would i know as opposed to someone here in Australia who has never lived in Europe and seen the results of migration/so called multiculturalism when dealing with Muslim fundamentalists.




Refugees don't go to Japan because Japan just doesn't want them.

In 2014 Japan accepted eleven (11) refugees, out of 5,000 applying for asylumso people have obviously given up trying to go there.

A model for others ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...could-restrict-system-even-more-10493130.html


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## Tisme (12 April 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Refugees don't go to Japan because Japan just doesn't want them.
> 
> In 2014 Japan accepted eleven (11) refugees, out of 5,000 applying for asylumso people have obviously given up trying to go there.
> 
> ...





The Japanese invented racism didn't they?

I think most of the Vietnamese refugees were escaping persecution for being Catholics?

The Vietnamese war we know (the 2nd Indo China war) was a post WWII revolt against French colonialism ( no doubt bolstered by observing how easily they were beaten by the Germans). "He Who Enlightens" (Ho Chi Minh) was one of those fellas who tramped around the globe and eventually spent six or so years in France, as a labourer, to set up resistance cells to fight against the French, he used the shield of western democracy in various parts of the world to protect himself while he plotted the takeover of of Vietnam in the name of communism. I think it was teh French who also gave sanctuary to the muslim cut throats that took Iranian women and children back to the repressive dark ages recently?


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## qldfrog (12 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> I think it was theFrench who also gave sanctuary to the muslim cut throats that took Iranian women and children back to the repressive dark ages recently?



A bit of history:
Indeed ayatollah Khomeini was flown by the french government in an Air France chartered jet and landed in Teheran as a hero: you know the "do good story", bad persian dictator(Shah), power to the people and masses leading to enlightment, bad CIA supported government etc etc the whole lot;

While in France, this medieval fanatic was hosted in a chateau..
Why not, but they will see the light...well as per:
Irak, Libya, Egypt, etc etc 
and if the west had been let free, Syria (the world may thank for Putin and his self interest)...
the end result is clear after nearly 40y;we have a paradox where the shiite fanatics nearly look moderate now...

Iran was a very civilised, cultural place, a birthplace of civilisation, powerful with university students male and female educated..
see the result now;a muslim fundamentalist test case: 
corrupt, thirsty,overpopulated(part of the grand scheme: no birth control, nop abortion) with millions idle young men with no job nor hope
All these crazy mollahs were initially granted asylum: France land of liberty and human rights...ah well teach you well
The Elois did good and :within 10 years, Iran agents were bombing Paris and assassinating the opposition on French soil;
But someone will tell me that this is just because France or the US were meddling with ME...
or that France was interested in Iranian oil???
I have learnt the lesson
 many have not here (but that does not matter that much as long as the boat policy is still on) 
or especially in the US foreign affairs, but what can you expect from the US in term of knowledge of the world....
US world cup is restricted to including hawai and alaska to the continental US states...Maybe this is were the US influence should stop for a better world.
Rant / history of the day


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## DB008 (12 April 2016)

Welcome them with open arms they said...

*Muslim Immigrant Stabs to Death the 7-Year-old Daughter of His Host Family in Sweden​*


> “A seven year old girl was stabbed to death in an apartment in Upplands-Bro in northern Stockholm on 25 July this year by a 36 year old man, Daniel Gebru. Ten months earlier Gebru arrived as a welfare of migrant from Eritrea to Sweden. …
> 
> Gebru has not been able to give any concrete reasons for why he cut the throat of the seven-year girl in the bathroom of her home. He had previously been living in the apartment. What he did there on that day is unclear because according to some data he was not living there anymore. As the Court notes, however, he did live in the apartment when the murder was committed but Gebru had failed to pay rent.
> 
> Gebru has stated that he had intended to take his own life but for unknown reasons instead stabbed the girl to death.”





https://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2016/01/07/muslim-immigrant-stabs-to-death-the-7-year-old-daughter-of-his-host-family-in-sweden/​


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## luutzu (12 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> The Japanese invented racism didn't they?
> 
> I think most of the Vietnamese refugees were escaping persecution for being Catholics?
> 
> The Vietnamese war we know (the 2nd Indo China war) was a post WWII revolt against French colonialism ( no doubt bolstered by observing how easily they were beaten by the Germans). "He Who Enlightens" (Ho Chi Minh) was one of those fellas who tramped around the globe and eventually spent six or so years in France, as a labourer, to set up resistance cells to fight against the French, he used the shield of western democracy in various parts of the world to protect himself while he plotted the takeover of of Vietnam in the name of communism. I think it was teh French who also gave sanctuary to the muslim cut throats that took Iranian women and children back to the repressive dark ages recently?




Definitely sure all countries are racist, not just Japan. Just that their racism cause more damage when their culture and arms industry tend to do most damage that the world take note of their racism.

---
Ho Chi Minh does not mean "he who englightens"... Literally it mean "Lake of wisdom"... referring more to himself having found wisdom rather than teaching it.

Ho started out, as a labourer in Paris, but he did not "fight" the French then. He wanted national liberation and end to colonialism... didn't get very far writing to Woodrow Wilson [Hoover?] when the president was at Versailles leading the victors in sticking it to the Germans...

He was known by French security of course, hence the few alias... because all Asian looks the same and as long as you change the name, you're fine.

Something something then WW2 broke out and Ho and his comrades, working with Uncle Sam's OSS [later renamed CIA] fighting the Japanese.

After WW2, the French came back to continue civilising Indo-China... Ho did write to, I think Eisenhower, asking the US to recognise his little country as an independent democratic state but it seem they feel sorry for France and it's impolite to ask the French to repay their debt to the US at the same time as telling them to not exploit their colonies to both rebuild and repay. So civilising it goes on.

Ho didn't really like that so they fought for another 9 years until Dien Bien Phu in 1954. At French's surrender  the US thought to intervene - for democracy of course, and so partition the 3 Vnese colonies into two [North and South] with the agreement that in two years there will be an election to reunite etc.

That didn't happen, can't let democracy go ahead if the result don't favour you right?... so the Vietnam War with US "advisors" kinda start there and ended in 1975.

---

So Ho didn't fight for Communism or Mother Russia or Chairman Mao. He was fighting for national independence and since the West does not support him, the dark side turn to he must.

I also think Ho really wanted VN to be democratic, but a Socialist Democracy... because seriously, who in their right mind would look at capitalism and thought it's a great thing for society. btw, don't mix Capitalism with Democracy...

But after 1975 when the comrades took the South, and Ho being long dead back in 1968... well power corrupts and absolute power in the hands of ill-educated idiots will really do the country in - especially one that's been exposed to French enlightenment for a century, almost a decade of Japanese curing the sick of Asia, and a couple decades of carpet bombing, agent Orange and Napalm... for something I can't remember the slogan... 

----

Can't blame France for the current Iranian regime... if the US and Britain didn't overthrow what's his democratically-elected president of Iran back in the 50s because he wanted more oil revenue for his country... if they didn't then prop up the Shah... the Iranians might not rise up and thought maybe Western democracy isn't for us (look what it does all over the place) and go for the crazy guys (at least they're  our crazies right?).


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## Tisme (12 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> ---
> Ho Chi Minh does not mean "he who englightens"... Literally it mean "Lake of wisdom"... referring more to himself having found wisdom rather than teaching it.




You sure of that?


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## luutzu (12 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> You sure of that?




Yah. I can read VNese. Can't write though, but read I can. I can read when I was 3 years old and years of Saturday schools so could read at grade 1 level 

Ho = Lake
Chi Minh: Intelligence; Wisdom; Brilliance.


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## Tisme (13 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> Yah. I can read VNese. Can't write though, but read I can. I can read when I was 3 years old and years of Saturday schools so could read at grade 1 level
> 
> Ho = Lake
> Chi Minh: Intelligence; Wisdom; Brilliance.





That's interesting. I'll see what my Viet friends say about it too, then maybe send an email to my social studies teacher and the various encyclopedias who got it wrong too.


----------



## qldfrog (13 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> Ho started out, as a labourer in Paris, but he did not "fight" the French then. He wanted national liberation and end to colonialism... didn't get very far writing to Woodrow Wilson [Hoover?] when the president was at Versailles leading the victors in sticking it to the Germans...
> 
> He was known by French security of course, hence the few alias... because all Asian looks the same and as long as you change the name, you're fine.



A small rectification then, when in France he was "educated" to another white colonialist idea: communism,
French left was communist up until the 1980's and the people he mixed with on the left banks , mostly intellectuals, and at work with the CGT(Union) where convinced of a communist nirvana 
so I do not think the US pushed him toward Russia/China;
He was a patriot maybe (and I would actually doubt this as it is in opposition with the marxist ideal )but first and definitively a communist/marxist by idealogy when he left France.
Let's not rewrite history .
PS: I have nothing against communism except it is unrealistic to apply due to human nature, so do not take this as a rabid anti-red attack;

And as Khomeyni (choose the right spelling), another great achievement of hosting "refugees" by the west Elois Elois....
For info, Uncle Ho restaurant is being renamed after pressure from the local Vietnamese community.


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## luutzu (13 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> That's interesting. I'll see what my Viet friends say about it too, then maybe send an email to my social studies teacher and the various encyclopedias who got it wrong too.




Aren't I your Viet friend? ha ha

If you use "enlightened", then it would be "Ho the Enlightened"... Ho is also a surname, but it also mean "Lake". 

"He who enlightens" mean he who teaches, he who give enlightenment, give wisdom.

To interpret "Ho the enlightened" as "Ho who enlightens" is like interpreting "He is Rich" to be "He will give you money". He may, may not give money... but he is rich though.

Sure send it and check have them correct their mistake. 

Didn't the Colonial schools teach you to not trust everything you read? Especially when it's White people writing about non-White?


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## Tisme (13 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> Aren't I your Viet friend? ha ha
> 
> If you use "enlightened", then it would be "Ho the Enlightened"... Ho is also a surname, but it also mean "Lake".
> 
> ...




Jesus luutzu you didn't have to get all agro. yes i count you as a friend


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## luutzu (13 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> A small rectification then, when in France he was "educated" to another white colonialist idea: communism,
> French left was communist up until the 1980's and the people he mixed with on the left banks , mostly intellectuals, and at work with the CGT(Union) where convinced of a communist nirvana
> so I do not think the US pushed him toward Russia/China;
> He was a patriot maybe (and I would actually doubt this as it is in opposition with the marxist ideal )but first and definitively a communist/marxist by idealogy when he left France.
> ...




Communism isn't Socialism. Communism, from memory, is pretty much Lenin's interpretation of Marx's Socialism. That is, Marx have this great idea but it need to be put into practice... Lenin read it and kapow came the end of Czarist Russia.

Lenin's idea, from the very little that I know from attending a lecture or two, is that the Party must have absolute power so that they can overthrow the capitalist pigs and landlords and nobility and other anti-revolutionary forces... then once the country got rid of those parasites, the Party will dissolve and power abolish and we all live happily ever after.

That, as it turn out, was full of dung.... and there are plenty of banners in VN (guessing in China and former Soviets) that proclaim the Party is great and glorious and will last forever and ever. So I guess power ain't going to be given back.

So yes, Communism will not work.

Socialism on the other hand... Socialist ideas with democratic institutions... that will work. It has work in the West since WW2. It is what made the West rich and strong and equitable from post WW2 to the late 1970s (when unionism and socialist programmes like welfare, workers' rights, fair pay for fair work, safe clean environment etc. etc. begin to be dismantled). Well that and war booty but let's not go there, haha

----

I don't know why people buy into this "high wages make us poor" nonsense. 

Think about it, if everybody have a good paying job with "high" wages... well everybody is "rich" and can buy stuff and live a decent life. If everybody can buy and live comfortably, the nation is rich - more taxes, more money to reinvest back (or splurge on politicians retirement pension increases, dam they still do that anyway right?)... With a richer population, businesses can demand higher price, or sell more at reasonable price.

BUt somehow we're told that we'll all be richer if we (or some other sukers) get lower pay. 

Guess if we make less money and the bosses make more money, they'll trickle it down and we all run outside chasing it with buckets - good exercise too.

----

Back to Ho Chi Minh and his communism... He does not put Communism first. You can conclude it from reading his letters and essays ( I read a couple volumns way back then)... that and the fact that he and his comrades works with the Americans to fight the Japanese; then when he declared independence for his North VN (after the French left in 1954? Could be after Japan surrender, anyway)...

when he declare independence he quoted Thomas Jefferson, not Mao or Marx or Lenin. He also name his country "Democratic Republic of North Vietnam".

So he only turn Red after the US rejected him. And you can't blame the guy for doing that when he's about to take on a still somewhat awesome imperial power like France, then the big kid on the block. You need arms supplies and moral support taking on foes like that.

How would VN have turned out if he were alive and rule it after 1975? Who knows, maybe he will turn it Red and go the crazy Mao path. His surviving lieutenants did and as Kolko concluded, they (the people) won the war but lose the peace - and millions of Vnese then pay the immediate price, tens of millions have been paying it since.

----

Uncle Ho restaurants... yea there's a lot of well connected VC-Viets coming over to Australia past decade or so. They flew here, got lots of cash and buy a lot of established Refugee-Viets businesses or set up new ones. Most RV can't compete against that kind of cash.

I'm surprise there isn't that much public anger about it. Maybe we're all brothers, or maybe the high property price they help drove up in the area kinda ease the outrage.

BUt yes, can't call your restaurant Uncle Ho dude... gotta put that three stripe flag on it. Like this other smarter airport/transport operator who's rumoured to be funded with VC monies - big yellow/red stripes flag wrapping his vehicles and an Aussie flag together with the Viet one at the front. 

Patriotism does sell.


----------



## luutzu (13 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> Jesus luutzu you didn't have to get all agro. yes i count you as a friend




You sure? 'cause I might not stand being hurt twice.


----------



## DB008 (14 April 2016)

Germany has lost. Europe as a whole is next.


Crazy...


*Justice Minister: Ban Sexy Adverts to End Migrant Rape Epidemic​*



> Germany’s Social Democratic-left justice minister is using the migrant crisis as a pretext to ban the display of the human form in public, blaming sexual images in advertising for the Cologne New Year’s Eve rape attacks.
> 
> Federal Justice Minister Heiko Maas has unveiled an amendment to the national competition laws ”” which also govern advertising ”” for force a “modern gender image” on the nation.
> 
> ...





http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/13/justice-minister-ban-sexy-adverts-end-migrant-rape/​


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## dutchie (15 April 2016)

DB008 said:


> Germany has lost. Europe as a whole is next.
> 
> 
> Crazy...
> ...





The Justice Minister has also banned beer from German society as Muslims are not allowed to drink alcohol.


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## DB008 (16 April 2016)

dutchie said:


> The Justice Minister has also banned beer from German society as Muslims are not allowed to drink alcohol.




So let me get this straight...

You try to help people, invite them to your house (country), then 'you' have to pander to their culture/religion which is part of the reason why they left their house (country) in the first place?

Makes no sense

Looks like Sweden is in the right **** anyways. 




> *Fight at Swedish refugee center leaves 2 injured, police puzzled due to language barrier​*
> A row at an arrival center for asylum seekers in Sweden has left two men injured and another being held by police on suspicion of attempted manslaughter. However, officers are not entirely sure what caused the fight because of the language barrier.
> The two men were attacked with a knife-like object following an argument that took place at the Arena Hotel in Halmstad, southern Sweden.
> 
> ...








> *22 Year Old Swedish Asylum Centre Worker Stabbed To Death By Migrant​*
> A young Swedish woman employed at an asylum centre has died following an attack by a migrant at the centre, the Swedish news agency TT has reported.
> 
> The victim, 22 year-old Alexandra Mezher, was rushed to a nearby hospital after being stabbed repeatedly, but later died.
> ...








> *Swedish police launch murder investigation after man stabbed to death during 'fight' at refugee centre​*
> A man has been stabbed to death and three more injured during a fight at a refugee centre in Sweden.
> 
> Police charged one man for murder and attempted murder on Sunday, and said three other man they had released earlier remained suspects. The victim's identity was not revealed.
> ...





Now, for bringing this up l am labeled a racist, a bigot and a new term invented by the left - an Islamaphobe.


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## wayneL (16 April 2016)

The biggest threat to western culture is the left.

All this other stuff is merely symptomatic.


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## wayneL (16 April 2016)

Eg Brian Adams happily plays in Islamic countries such as Egypt where women have few rights, yet cancels Mississippi concert because male crossdressers aren't allowed to use the ladys loo. 

We have seen the enemy and it is us.


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## luutzu (16 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> The biggest threat to western culture is the left.
> 
> All this other stuff is merely symptomatic.




That's funny Sifu.

Name us some good Right wing ideas please.

Free market; trickle down economic; greed is good; "patriotism"?


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## wayneL (16 April 2016)

Better stop short than fill to the brim.
Oversharpen the blade, and the edge will soon blunt.
Amass a store of gold and jade, and no one can protect it.
Claim wealth and titles, and disaster will follow.
Retire when the work is done.


Let's have balance Grasshopper. What we have is good, let no side destroy it.


----------



## luutzu (16 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Better stop short than fill to the brim.
> Oversharpen the blade, and the edge will soon blunt.
> Amass a store of gold and jade, and no one can protect it.
> Claim wealth and titles, and disaster will follow.
> ...




the doctrine of the Mean there Sifu?

True, balance is good. But left and right has been shifting way way right for at least a few decades now right?

What is now considered the extreme Left is really either centrist or slightly right some half century ago - the hey day of free education, social welfare, tax equality, workers' rights... 

In the end, it's not Left or Right, it's doing what is verifiably beneficial to the people and the state. The world has tried (and still trying hard in some part of hte world right now) having all the wealth at the top; had tried being ruled by a wise King; ruled by a few wise Senators and elite... all tend to screwed up the place and the people... trying the same thing hoping for different results is not smart.

Also, the West have tried these Socialist nutjob ideas of social security, free education to train eager young minds, gov't investment and job building projects like roads, bridges, trains and other infrastructure projects... and it tend to have done a heck of a lot of good... But somehow it didn't.

In two generations, the entire country and its people are brought out of poverty and into unheard of wealth and security after a near-death world wars... but lets now abandon that and go towards something that have been tried and failed before all over the place.


What we have is good, true. But it is being remove, slowly.. but surely it is being removed. And it's not the Muslims or the refugees that's removing it - they haven't pass their laws yet, right?


----------



## wayneL (16 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> the doctrine of the Mean there Sifu?
> 
> True, balance is good. But left and right has been shifting way way right for at least a few decades now right?
> 
> What is now considered the extreme Left is really either centrist or slightly right some half century ago - the hey day of free education, social welfare, tax equality, workers' rights...




Economically it's true, we have move away from the socialist dystopia. But it was necessary as no state could survive socialism long term.

Socially we have gone way way way to the left. I would also argue that in some respects we needed to come some way. Equal rights for women, same sex couples, halting racism and other forms of discrimination have been a positive.

However there is a bewildering agenda of the left to actually destroy the fabric of our culture. If Muslims and other religions want to come to Australia, fine, come, be productive, make wealth, pay taxes. Many have indeed done just that, including Muslims, but the left wants us to subjugate ourselves to the radical elements of the forighn cultures, rather than assimilate into ours. They want to usurp the rights of our mothers, wives, daughters and granddaughtrs to have the privacy of gender exclusivity in their public toilets, in favour of transvestites. They want us to be tolerant of their cultural events, while we dismantle our own so as not to offend. They want selection of officers of our bureaucracy on the basis of gender, rather than merit. They want to dismantle and subjugate our predominant religion, while elevating theirs to untouchable status, even with its misogyny (do you see the contradictions there?).

I could go on....



> In the end, it's not Left or Right, it's doing what is verifiably beneficial to the people and the state. The world has tried (and still trying hard in some part of hte world right now) having all the wealth at the top; had tried being ruled by a wise King; ruled by a few wise Senators and elite... all tend to screwed up the place and the people... trying the same thing hoping for different results is not smart.
> 
> Also, the West have tried these Socialist nutjob ideas of social security, free education to train eager young minds, gov't investment and job building projects like roads, bridges, trains and other infrastructure projects... and it tend to have done a heck of a lot of good... But somehow it didn't.
> 
> ...





Your problem Grasshopper, is a totally freaking screwed up perspective, what is being removed is the work of leftist activists, not the center or center right (and we have no true extreme right wing) and by the time you lot realise it, we will have a huuuuuge problem.


----------



## luutzu (16 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Economically it's true, we have move away from the socialist dystopia. But it was necessary as no state could survive socialism long term.
> 
> Socially we have gone way way way to the left. I would also argue that in some respects we needed to come some way. Equal rights for women, same sex couples, halting racism and other forms of discrimination have been a positive.
> 
> ...





Not true. No state could long survive capitalism/oligarchy. History has shown it.

Don't mistake Socialism for Communism either. Or that Democracy is Capitalism. Heck, they have elections in VN and China - just you get to pick the ones they/the party nominate and the elected candidate will do as dictated to by the masters at top. 

If you look at all the history of the world, the common theme is revolutions, wars and conquest. When you have the King and his nobilities running and owning everything... the moment a stronger power storm the castle and take the flag, quickly establish a new order - the masses just shrugged and carried on as before. There might be some resistance by small number of loyalists, but pretty much the entire population just carry on, pay their bills, pay their taxes to someone who take to somewhere.

In other words, if the people are disenfranchised, you can run elections and get people to vote - if in the end it's all hollow and just bs, if it just waste a couple hours more of their time and nothing gets done for them... a gov't could be pretty quickly replaced and new order from foreign power installed without too much hassle. 

This is why the Romans didn't really care that Caesar took over and made himself eternal Dictator; and not mind when the Senators assassinate him "for the Republic"; then Augustus took it back and establish his dynasty. Or the Ming Chinese rise up against the Ming but also shrugged, get a new haircut and fashion the moment the Manchurian marches into Beijing and establish order. Or how the Yanks rebel against their King George and establish their own empire. etc. etc.

So history have shown again and again that no matter what form of gov't the country take - be it foreign or domestic, as long as it benefits the multitude, the people, it will survive; if it harm the people, it eventually will fall. When it fall, the cause being talked about won't be about economics, but about nationalism, freedom and liberty and all that. BUt it all boil down to the gov't not doing enough for the people.

---

Sure, there are cases of despots and dictators having absolute control even though the masses are poor and hungry and the country is ruled fine. But when the people are poor, the nation is poor. Being poor you are weak. Being weak as a nation you are asking to be liberated by richer and more powerful neighbours with arms directed outwards instead of inwards to protect the ruling elite.

As some smart guy summarised Marx's conclusion about Capitalism: being human they will always try to make the most profit. Making profit mean making things cheap and selling things dear. Highest costs are human labour; other costs are what we come to call "externalities" - bs cost like caring for clean air, clean water, no poising the wildlife other customers.

How to cut down these costs? Use your few bucks to influence politicians. Push through laws, and propaganda, that being well-paid is bad for the economy - you plebs should be poorer so you'd work harder and the masters be richer and then give you some.

Selling dear can be done through monopoly; duopoly... or making a better mouse trap... but that costs money; so you make a better mouse trap and make laws to protect it forever and ever etc. etc.

The results?

More plebs work longer hours for less; Less regulation and less enforcement of laws protecting the environment; Less incentives and programmes from the gov't to help finance new research and development to change the status quo.... and less funding of public welfare so teach the plebs that it's no good to take for others, that it's everyman for himself and that's how the world works.

How to unite the people then?

As Confucius said, those who give to the people gain the people; those who gain the people gain the world.

How to gain people and unite them? You give them education; you fund programmes that create jobs; that challenge them; that give them opportunities to advance; you want the people to be smart and worldly so they can question and challenge orthodoxies and move the country forward; you want them to be able to think deep and hard into issues so that they will contribute their mental and physical capacities to the nation.

How? Free (or affordable) education; free (or tax payer funded, most cost-effective) healthcare; investment in projects that actually built and innovate rather than playing with paper/electronic numbers... and all these are funded through fair and equitable collection and distribution of taxes.

Maybe that's what Socialism is; maybe it's some Utopian nonsense... but it had proven itself to work since after WW2 til the 1980s when it work too well to the Masters' liking.

So now, nothing is affordable by the gov't... healthcare? Bloody joking; Education? Let the Market deal with it - if you can afford it, pay for it; why should taxpayer pay for it? Forgetting that the kids parents, and the kids themselves are taxpayers... they're paying the tax yet they're told they shouldn't have it because it's "other people's" money?? Welfare for when you hit hardtimes or illness? Tough... misfortunes make you strong and hungry; so will literal hunger and starvation but let's not split hair...

With these we're heading back to the good old days of civilisation until recently... and some of us poor, and literally poor, plebs actually likes it. I guess the plans to dumb down the population does work.

----------

So Socialism as practised by Australia so far is what will enrich and continue to enrich it. Capitalism, especially the crony-capitalism and bail-outs and protectionist rackets that privatise public riches but socialise their losses... the kind of neo-con bs Reagan and Thatcher and pretty much every leader in the West since... these will ruin the country. And we're seeing it every five six years - market crashes, recessions, income and wealth inequality widening day by day; job and general insecurity almost everywhere but at the very top...

For countries so far ahead of other civilisations that there are no serious contender in both military, economic infrastructure, technological advances and development that's lightyears ahead of peer competitors... for such countries to have periodic collapses or near collapses, for it to have its people at increasing financial and personal insecurity... you just wait until the peer competitors start to wake up and realise that copying this failed approach does them no good and they'd start to rethink a bit. Money has no loyalty or permanent master.

----------
With regards the Muslims and other cultures taking over the Christian values and traditions... seriously, when's the last time non-Muslims or Non-Asian take times off to recognise Ramadan or the Lunar New Year?

But we all take time off to celebrate Christmas and other Holy Days.

Maybe there are less public approval of Christian holidays and Christian celebration because there are less Westerner "Christian" wanting to be Christians; maybe separation of Church and State... and it has nothing to do with other cultures wanting to ban it or fighting Christian celebration or practices.


----------



## Tink (17 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> However there is a bewildering agenda of the left to actually destroy the fabric of our culture. If Muslims and other religions want to come to Australia, fine, come, be productive, make wealth, pay taxes. Many have indeed done just that, including Muslims, but the left wants us to subjugate ourselves to the radical elements of the forighn cultures, rather than assimilate into ours. They want to usurp the rights of our mothers, wives, daughters and granddaughtrs to have the privacy of gender exclusivity in their public toilets, in favour of transvestites. They want us to be tolerant of their cultural events, while we dismantle our own so as not to offend. They want selection of officers of our bureaucracy on the basis of gender, rather than merit. They want to dismantle and subjugate our predominant religion, while elevating theirs to untouchable status, even with its misogyny (do you see the contradictions there?).
> 
> I could go on....




Agree with this, Wayne.

_Political Correctness has been the insidious poison that has let evil flourish._


----------



## dutchie (17 April 2016)

Tink said:


> _Political Correctness has been the insidious poison that has let evil flourish._




Spot on Tink.

Definition of Political Correctness --> You can't offend the minority but you can offend the majority as much as you like!


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## dutchie (17 April 2016)

The Pope flew 12 refugees, in his private jet, into the Vatican. The other 99,988 will just have to walk there.


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## wayneL (21 April 2016)

Here's your socialism, Grasshopper.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Here's your socialism, Grasshopper.
> 
> View attachment 66355




What has that got to do with multiculturalism ?

:topic


----------



## wayneL (21 April 2016)

Ask  luutzu


----------



## luutzu (21 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Ask  luutzu




Nice try Sifu.


----------



## luutzu (21 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Here's your socialism, Grasshopper.
> 
> View attachment 66355




oh. is that why half their marriages ended in divorce? For socialism and stuff?

Maybe what is described there isn't socialism. Maybe it's just a weirdo having a really complicated relationship with the love of his life and thought what better way to show how much he loves her than to stick it to the taxman through that elaborate scheme.

Maybe he's wasting his talent. A guy could make a lot more money, and get the girl, applying less thought and less effort: Just vote Hillary who's "fighting for us", or Trump who will "make America Great again". 

Sifu, I'd even think twice and ten times quoting today's "journalist". To quote some reader's opinions.. that's way way too trusting.


----------



## Tisme (21 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> oh. is that why half their marriages ended in divorce? For socialism and stuff?
> 
> Maybe what is described there isn't socialism. Maybe it's just a weirdo having a really complicated relationship with the love of his life and thought what better way to show how much he loves her than to stick it to the taxman through that elaborate scheme.
> 
> ...




There's that grammar again, which luutzu is posting today?


----------



## luutzu (21 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> There's that grammar again, which luutzu is posting today?




Dude, I went to public schools. Also missed out on kindy and most of primary where they taught the ABCs and grandma. 

It's the thought that count, right?  It should.


----------



## wayneL (22 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> oh. is that why half their marriages ended in divorce? For socialism and stuff?
> 
> Maybe what is described there isn't socialism. Maybe it's just a weirdo having a really complicated relationship with the love of his life and thought what better way to show how much he loves her than to stick it to the taxman through that elaborate scheme.
> 
> ...




Ahhh Grasshopper, you are so hard to teach.

Notwithstanding that I believe society should take care of those who cannot take care of themselves, and that is a very fuzzy line, the attempted implementation of socialist relies on capitalism to survive, it is the transfer of wealth from those willing to produce, to those unwilling to do so.

Without the profit motive (and let's face it Grasshopper, even professed socialist such as yourself have a profit motive, or you wouldn't be here on ASF) there would not be enough production to run the economy, unless by force, vis a vis Leninist/Stalinist Communism.

Therefore socialism cannot exist in it's own right, it must leech from the capitalists in a mixed economy, or be conducted at the point of a gun in a totalitarian command economy.


----------



## Tisme (22 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> Dude, I went to public schools. Also missed out on kindy and most of primary where they taught the ABCs and grandma.
> 
> It's the thought that count, right?  It should.




No

I'm pointing out that sometimes your posts (grammar) are like a new australian trying to learn the language, then other times you are quite lucid .... is you grandma proxy writing for you?


----------



## Tisme (22 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Therefore socialism cannot exist in it's own right, it must leech from the capitalists in a mixed economy, or be conducted at the point of a gun in a totalitarian command economy.




Socialism is a great money maker too. Even JD Rockefeller paid Diego Rivera for the completed mural in the Rockefeller Center that had Vladimir Lenin featured. 

Socialism is like a giant EBA, where the capital elite can pick from a pool of organised and ordered labour, without having to barter with grubby individuals.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> Socialism is a great money maker too. Even JD Rockefeller paid Diego Rivera for the completed mural in the Rockefeller Center that had Vladimir Lenin featured.
> 
> Socialism is like a giant EBA, where the capital elite can pick from a pool of organised and ordered labour, without having to barter with grubby individuals.




Imo there is nothing wrong with governments owning underlying assets, eg power stations, and contracting out to private enterprise to compete on running these assets.

99 year leases are rubbish, 10 years should be the max so that ongoing performance evaluation can be done, and if the current contractor isn't doing the job then someone else can.


----------



## luutzu (22 April 2016)

Tisme said:


> No
> 
> I'm pointing out that sometimes your posts (grammar) are like a new australian trying to learn the language, then other times you are quite lucid .... is you grandma proxy writing for you?




I learn English from the books I read so have no clue how to structure a sentence beside remembering how some author does it. And memories does fade and habit does form hanging around migrants and dealing with Muslims and Arabs and Asians (yes, it's their fault). 

That or maybe I'm practising in preparation for political office. Though have got to wait for a complete moral decay before applying  

No, grandma couldn't read or write, even in her own native language. What with the French still around when she was growing up. She's around 88 years old and still working the farm, raising pigs and chickens - so she won't have time for this stuff.


----------



## luutzu (22 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Ahhh Grasshopper, you are so hard to teach.
> 
> Notwithstanding that I believe society should take care of those who cannot take care of themselves, and that is a very fuzzy line, the attempted implementation of socialist relies on capitalism to survive, it is the transfer of wealth from those willing to produce, to those unwilling to do so.
> 
> ...





No Sifu. It is socialism that will save capitalism. Capitalism will, if left unchecked, eat itself out. In a way, Capitalists are like fishes who will just eat and eat and eat until their belly burst and they die.

Capitalist think they're smarter than the fishes, of course. They're smart by cost cutting and be "efficient". Only idiots does it by innovation... Capitalists are practical people and will cut cost by pushing down wages, by not wanting to spend money on useless things like proper waste management, safe work, clean air... or even paying taxes that made possible the road and infrastructure, the education to, I guess educate, its workforce; or wanting cheap and affordable healthcare so that their workforce are healthy.

So they use all the influence money can buy and push for all these "competitive" measures. It will, at first, make them profitable... what with a less-educated workforce with high unemployment and little to no representation being too scared to ask to boss for a raise or a face mask protecting from asbestos or dust... It will bring in the dole. 

As the years goes by and infrastructure are crumbling, workers become sicker and sicker, the air and water more polluted, less and less pay mean less and less spending mean less and less demand... and the cycle goes round and round til we have a revolution where more than a handful of capitalists heads rolled and the luckier ones managed to flee with a few bagful of cash.

Maybe some capitalists see opportunities in helping people flee; in policing the masses and crack down on rebellions. 

Smarter people try to create value, pay their people fairly, deal in ways that benefit both sides... and results in all parties benefiting - the kind of model we're taught at capitalist schools but are rarely implemented.

---

Socialism is not about taking money from rich people (that just tend to happen in revolution, and it never goes to the people, only goes to the leaders of the rebellion who will in turn become the new elite). 

Socialism is about looking after your people - not just because it's the "right" thing to do when you can... but because in having the people looked after, you benefit from having healthy and educated workers; you don't get mugged walking down clean and well stocked streets with people having money to take their kids out, feed their family and turn up to work wanting to do useful and rewarding things.

Put just the profit motive in, without thinking long term or thinking enough, and you get what all societies throughout history get: unmotivated, ill-educated working poor with a handful of "intellectuals" whipping them around for crumbs that goes to the masters at the very top. That and eventual bloody revolutions with a few heads on a few spikes.

---
btw, how does me being on ASF or getting into stock be due to a profit motive? I'd probably make more money opening up a Pho restaurant or a real estate agency. No one goes to an Asian for stock tips, and no Asian go to anyone for stock


----------



## wayneL (22 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> No Sifu. It is socialism that will save capitalism. Capitalism will, if left unchecked, eat itself out.




Actually, I agree with this, even if I don't agree with your tenuous justification.

I'm actually a Classical Liberal with some concessions to Social Liberalism (Not pure socialism) Look them up


----------



## luutzu (22 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Actually, I agree with this, even if I don't agree with your tenuous justification.
> 
> I'm actually a Classical Liberal with some concessions to Social Liberalism (Not pure socialism) Look them up




"Social liberalism is a political ideology that seeks to find a balance between individual liberty and social justice." (Wikipedia)

Aren't we all? Even the Liberal Party and Reagan's Republicans would call themselves that.

But yea, it's a bad idea to label ourselves because what we might mean by it could be very different to what the original or the popular understanding of it is. I mean, the comrades and the capitalist pigs would call themselves Socialist/Capitalist and they're neither - they're probably the one and the same, just better dress code to suit the environment.

---

Don't think my points are tenuous Sifu. Look around the world where social welfare and the kind of New Deal socialism has been implemented and been removed. The result speak for itself.


----------



## wayneL (22 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> Don't think my points are tenuous Sifu. Look around the world where social welfare and the kind of New Deal socialism has been implemented and been removed. The result speak for itself.




The results do speak for themselves and they are neither universally good or bad.

Australia in many respect is a far superior place to what it was in the 70s when my family lobbed here. Also in many respects is sucks way worse than in those days.

Balance, yin and yang is the way, this is Tao, as elusive as that is.


----------



## luutzu (22 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> The results do speak for themselves and they are neither universally good or bad.
> 
> Australia in many respect is a far superior place to what it was in the 70s when my family lobbed here. Also in many respects is sucks way worse than in those days.
> 
> Balance, yin and yang is the way, this is Tao, as elusive as that is.




The balance may no longer be with us Sifu. We're picking up speed towards the Right and following American neo-con ideologies of "free market" and "competitiveness". I guess it looks bad but somehow it work wonders for the Americans.

So debt reduction (i.e. every spending is a cost, not an investment; and costs will have to be cut of course). The plebs keep paying higher and higher taxes but the gov't can't afford anything so their tax dollars goes to the ATO but better schools for the kids or healthcare or welfare... what is this? Who's going to pay for that? Where's the money coming from?

That's not to complain or whinge about Australia. Just saying we could do better, and we should.


----------



## explod (22 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> The results do speak for themselves and they are neither universally good or bad.
> 
> Australia in many respect is a far superior place to what it was in the 70s when my family lobbed here. Also in many respects is sucks way worse than in those days.
> 
> Balance, yin and yang is the way, this is Tao, as elusive as that is.




You know Whyne,  I very much respect a lot of what I can understand in what you express but for some reason you try to shield yourself by the use of riddles. 

Give us your heart in plain language and you may find more of us with you.


----------



## qldfrog (23 April 2016)

And to bring back to the subject, I am not a neo con, want egality of chances, public infrastructure etc  but i know that socialism applied (aka welfare) in countries with open borders is an experiment that western Europe has been toying with [even before merkel].
It managed to destroy  not only whole economies, but also a civilisation in the space of 3 generations( a lifetime) and lead to a reddition in a war which has been going one for more than a 1000y without a single shot (yet) fired in self protection.
While socialism in itself could not be blamed, its idealism and its manipulation by the ruling classes (supposely left wing) are the direct causes and this is where the thread debate becomes relevant.


----------



## DB008 (24 April 2016)

Referring to my post #228 earlier in this thread



*Swedish council bans memorial for young social worker stabbed to death by migrant because it 'might offend refugees'​*


> A Swedish asylum center has been told they can't hold a memorial for 22 year-old Alexandra Mezher, who was stabbed to death by a refugee.
> According to The Daily Mail, while the stabbing took place in Molndal, Gothenburg, a refugee center in Ã–rnskÃ¶ldsvik wanted to hold a memorial. However, the Ã–rnskÃ¶ldsvik council told them they were banned from doing so.
> 
> “What happened in Molndal could have happened here. That's how bad it is,” Carl Lindahl told Sweden's SVT Vasternorrland.
> ...




http://www.therebel.media/swedish_council_bans_memorial_for_young_social_worker_stabbed_to_death_by_migrant_because_it_might_offend_refugees​


----------



## luutzu (24 April 2016)

qldfrog said:


> And to bring back to the subject, I am not a neo con, want egality of chances, public infrastructure etc  but i know that socialism applied (aka welfare) in countries with open borders is an experiment that western Europe has been toying with [even before merkel].
> It managed to destroy  not only whole economies, but also a civilisation in the space of 3 generations( a lifetime) and lead to a reddition in a war which has been going one for more than a 1000y without a single shot (yet) fired in self protection.
> While socialism in itself could not be blamed, its idealism and its manipulation by the ruling classes (supposely left wing) are the direct causes and this is where the thread debate becomes relevant.




Whatever you'd been taking, or reading, stop taking it. 

Just say "No" qldfrog.


----------



## wayneL (24 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> The balance may no longer be with us Sifu. We're picking up speed towards the Right and following American neo-con ideologies of "free market" and "competitiveness". I guess it looks bad but somehow it work wonders for the Americans.
> 
> So debt reduction (i.e. every spending is a cost, not an investment; and costs will have to be cut of course). The plebs keep paying higher and higher taxes but the gov't can't afford anything so their tax dollars goes to the ATO but better schools for the kids or healthcare or welfare... what is this? Who's going to pay for that? Where's the money coming from?
> 
> That's not to complain or whinge about Australia. Just saying we could do better, and we should.




Boy could we do better. Agree there.

But the left- center-right continuum has at least two facets, social and economic. Yes we have moved to the right economically, but we have recklessly surged to the left socially.

Once again I repeat, the results are mixed, but it is observable that, the more extreme of either, the more it sucks.


----------



## wayneL (24 April 2016)

explod said:


> You know Whyne,  I very much respect a lot of what I can understand in what you express but for some reason you try to shield yourself by the use of riddles.
> 
> Give us your heart in plain language and you may find more of us with you.




My heart is open and there for all to see, even if one must look past a little sesquipedalianism and whimsy.

My riddles are not to shield but to test... And for my own self amusement.

I care not who is with me,  in fact, I would worry if too many agreed...unless I am trying to make money.


----------



## explod (25 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> sesquipedalianism




There you go again,  how does one interpret this,  plain language Champ is all we need.


----------



## luutzu (25 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> Boy could we do better. Agree there.
> 
> But the left- center-right continuum has at least two facets, social and economic. Yes we have moved to the right economically, but we have recklessly surged to the left socially.
> 
> Once again I repeat, the results are mixed, but it is observable that, the more extreme of either, the more it sucks.




Everything is economic Sifu. Marx said that.

So welfare for grannies with only one house is so that their kid/s could be freed up to get a job or two and only visit once every few weekends. Without adequate healthcare for the elderly, say, at least one of the kids will have to either work at some low-paid job parttime - be divorced, have their kids raised by someone else, less tax from that person etc. Well, there's always the iceberg or the Australian bush to take granny to.

Same with immunisation. Sick kids mean days/nights off for the parent... mean less productivity at work... mean possible spread of germs and viruses at school to other kids.

So progress in economics and profit to the "productive" and the "entreprenuer" so they and the gov't can then have money to pay for social parasites... well that's not true and it does not happen as the rich tend to find good accountants and/or spend it somewhere else etc.

A country is never wealthy because the few at the top are wealthy. You can see that in all third world countries where the comrades or the dictators and friends are fat as heck... have to go to the gym to cut down their blubber. While the rest you can count their ribs.


----------



## wayneL (25 April 2016)

explod said:


> There you go again,  how does one interpret this,  plain language Champ is all we need.




It's all the English language my friend; I make no apologies for having a fair grasp of the same, or even having a play with the same for my own amusement.

The dictionary is your friend.


----------



## wayneL (25 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> Everything is economic Sifu. Marx said that.
> 
> So welfare for grannies with only one house is so that their kid/s could be freed up to get a job or two and only visit once every few weekends. Without adequate healthcare for the elderly, say, at least one of the kids will have to either work at some low-paid job parttime - be divorced, have their kids raised by someone else, less tax from that person etc. Well, there's always the iceberg or the Australian bush to take granny to.
> 
> ...




I some parts of 'Murica, there is some upset with regards to the accessibility of gender specific public toilets by so called "trans-gender" folks.

While Komrade Karl could be forgiven for failing to foresee this social conundrum, you might also forgive me for failing to see the economics of the same... Apart from very narrow vested interests.


----------



## luutzu (25 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> I some parts of 'Murica, there is some upset with regards to the accessibility of gender specific public toilets by so called "trans-gender" folks.
> 
> While Komrade Karl could be forgiven for failing to foresee this social conundrum, you might also forgive me for failing to see the economics of the same... Apart from very narrow vested interests.




The economics in that nonsense, mountain out of molehill bs is what they'd call diversion.

Them politicians get voted in, got paid by the public but does the biddings of the rich and mighty overlords. What with endless wars, endless insecurity then security spending to secure this and that; What with tax and its "loopholes", public bailout of private corporations when they go broke... all ending up with the top 20 families in America having the same wealth as the bottom 50% (or some 150 million people)...

You cannot let the public hear and see and think about stuff like that. So you create some bs issue... put God, guns and Muslims, gays and family value... and voila... some "so-called" transgender people will have to put up with more crap from rednecks while money are swindled from public treasuries with the public too busy hating or defending rights that are just so evident in both nature and law.


----------



## wayneL (25 April 2016)

luutzu said:


> The economics in that nonsense, mountain out of molehill bs is what they'd call diversion.
> 
> Them politicians get voted in, got paid by the public but does the biddings of the rich and mighty overlords. What with endless wars, endless insecurity then security spending to secure this and that; What with tax and its "loopholes", public bailout of private corporations when they go broke... all ending up with the top 20 families in America having the same wealth as the bottom 50% (or some 150 million people)...
> 
> You cannot let the public hear and see and think about stuff like that. So you create some bs issue... put God, guns and Muslims, gays and family value... and voila... some "so-called" transgender people will have to put up with more crap from rednecks while money are swindled from public treasuries with the public too busy hating or defending rights that are just so evident in both nature and law.




I dont think even you believe that lol


----------



## luutzu (25 April 2016)

wayneL said:


> I dont think even you believe that lol




You know I'm quite cynical right?

Sure there are idiotic politicians drinking their religious cool-aid and so really have it in for "The gays". But most are your run of the mill politicians and Masters of Man, as Chomsky put it, who's only there to whet their own beaks and cushion their own nests, even if the country and its people are to be sold off to pay for it.


----------



## Tink (26 April 2016)

Just giving my view.

Since they can't work out which bathroom to go in....


----------



## luutzu (26 April 2016)

Tink said:


> Just giving my view.
> 
> Since they can't work out which bathroom to go in....
> 
> View attachment 66424




Pretty they're not the one confused.

They know what gender they are, just their sexual organ does not suit their gender identity. There are, will be, surgery but maybe they couldn't afford it yet.

Anyway, it's a non-issue. If there are rapist dressing up as women or whatever it is that's been touting... yea, putting up a law about restroom would stop potential rapist from breaking that law.


----------



## SirRumpole (26 April 2016)

The outcome of the election for London mayor will be interesting...

Sadiq Khan leading in London election polls, expected to be city's first Muslim mayor

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-26/sadiq-khan-expected-to-be-londons-first-muslim-mayor/7356864


----------



## luutzu (26 April 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> The outcome of the election for London mayor will be interesting...
> 
> Sadiq Khan leading in London election polls, expected to be city's first Muslim mayor
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-26/sadiq-khan-expected-to-be-londons-first-muslim-mayor/7356864




Today London, tomorrow the worlllddddd... Allah willing.
Maybe not that funny.


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## explod (26 April 2016)

Tink said:


> Just giving my view.
> 
> Since they can't work out which bathroom to go in....
> 
> ]




I do not believe views are helpfull in what is a difficult if not very sensitive issue. 

Gays etc do not choose to be so and because they are they are usually very sensitive and intelligent people and more so because of the way society in the past treated them. 

The issue is a biological one and is caused at CONCEPTION (emphasis intended)  by a mix up in the ballance of cromozones. 

The caption,  which I deleted from my post,  is in very poor taste in my view.


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## wayneL (27 April 2016)

explod said:


> I do not believe views are helpfull in what is a difficult if not very sensitive issue.
> 
> Gays etc do not choose to be so and because they are they are usually very sensitive and intelligent people and more so because of the way society in the past treated them.
> 
> ...




What a surprise! A lefty takes offense.

You might want to check your science there Plod, like with CC, you have it all wrong. There are plausible theories regarding the biology of transsexualism, none have anything to do with chromosomes.

It's a tough issue with valid points on either side of the argument and it may be that toilets are reconfigured.

At Southbank in Brisbane the loos are non gender specific cubicles, problem solved before it even started.

Humourless offense taking is really wedge politics in disguise and you leftists ought to stop it, because it's going to really blow up in your faces sooner or later.


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## DB008 (2 May 2016)

Reverse the tide...l couldn't ever see this happening


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## noco (2 May 2016)

What has already happened in Sweden is about to happen on the rest of Europe and the UK.....The United States of America are starting to wake up to what is happening in the Islamic movement and a change in presidents to Trump may just take that initiative to stop their advance.

I hope you you absorb this U-Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/a-hPCnel0qc


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## dutchie (20 December 2016)

I'm sure Angela will have a FrÃ¶hliche Weihnachten, the families of (nine) twelve killed in Berlin not so much.


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## dutchie (21 December 2016)

"I don't want to live in a world where we have to be endlessly tolerant of those who display no tolerance at all."

Katie Hopkins


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## dutchie (2 January 2017)

This is funny..

From Tim Blair's 2017 predictions:

"Embarrassment for Angela Merkel, who mistakes a refugee in a burqa for a ballot box while trying to cast her vote in the German election."


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## luutzu (2 January 2017)

dutchie said:


> "I don't want to live in a world where we have to be endlessly tolerant of those who display no tolerance at all."
> 
> Katie Hopkins




Now that's funny.


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## joeno (2 January 2017)

Another ignorant discussion on multiculturalism. So being German in the UK doesn't work? Being spanish in Portugal doesn't work? They're all different cultures.

Just admit it that certain RELIGIONS (starts with a I and ends with an M) and GROUPS of people don't work in a melting pot due to their aggressive and violent temperament.


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## luutzu (2 January 2017)

joeno said:


> Another ignorant discussion on multiculturalism. So being German in the UK doesn't work? Being spanish in Portugal doesn't work? They're all different cultures.
> 
> Just admit it that certain RELIGIONS (starts with a I and ends with an M) and GROUPS of people don't work in a melting pot due to their aggressive and violent temperament.





I know right? Certain groups and religion are just too violent and aggressive. Unlike peaceful Christianity... starting in Bethlehem, Judea 2016 years ago, it still remains there to this day. Oh wait.

OK, OK... It's not the Christians fault that the new Rome adopted it as a state religion after a few centuries of feeding them to lions. It's not like the Church use its state power to suppress and persecute other cults. Oh wait.

Well, it's not like Christianity was spread with the swords all over Europe. Oh... wait. Well, Christians never colonise anybody. Oh... well the China was never completely colonised alright. We just fed them shiploads of opium.

Well, it's not like Christians ever fought each other to the death. Oh...

Well... There's Western Democracies... Treating every one as equal (except for women, the gays, the coloured folks, the poor White trash, bogans, the working poor).

Well at least the civilised Western democracies never go overseas and bomb anybody... 

I could go on all day 

This is a lot like China claiming it's a peace loving country with no dream of empire and conquest at all (as long as you ignore the past and all those hundreds of countries and culture it annexed and "absorbed").


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## DB008 (4 January 2017)

Viva La France.....wait, hold on a second

​


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## pixel (4 January 2017)

DB008 said:


> Viva La France.....wait, hold on a second
> 
> ​




We're told to be wary and delete emails pretending they're from Banks or Government agencies - especially if they contain typos and spelling errors. 

"woman" and "they're" is an obvious clash, as is "longer no allowed"

I apply that rule not only to dodgy emails, but by extension to everything else I "find" on the Interwebz, especially items supposed to carry emotion-laden messages.

... just sayin'


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## Tisme (6 January 2017)

I'm guessing those on facebook are already aware of the Chicago Torture, where 4 black people tortured a man for 2 days and broadcast it on facebook ... they even scalped him. And we are supposed to believe multiculturalism here won't become this for our descendants? :

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/05/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html


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## dutchie (9 May 2017)

Another example showing that multiculturalism doesn't work with Muslims.

Sydney woman charged for refusing to stand, take off veil in court
THE first person in NSW to be charged with “disrespectful behaviour” in court is a Muslim woman who allegedly refused to stand for a Sydney judge in court. 
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...t/news-story/2c008157b0310fd227bb6451647f721c


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## Tisme (9 May 2017)

dutchie said:


> Another example showing that multiculturalism doesn't work with Muslims.
> 
> Sydney woman charged for refusing to stand, take off veil in court
> THE first person in NSW to be charged with “disrespectful behaviour” in court is a Muslim woman who allegedly refused to stand for a Sydney judge in court.
> http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...t/news-story/2c008157b0310fd227bb6451647f721c




 Criminal family who should be expelled from Australia to a war zone where they can rely on their god to help them with the dole.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/05/08/18/22/muslim-woman-charged-with-disrespect


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## Tisme (9 May 2017)

Multiculturism isn't something Indonesia is going to see soon as it descends into the dark hole of Islamic radicalism.

Not sure how anyone could blaspheme against a Skyfairy , but I'd like HIM to press charges with his invisible lips and invisible fingers, rather than some self appointed sheriffs who don't have HIS phone number, HIS address and none have ever made contact to verify a code violation.



> *Verdict expected in blasphemy case against Jakarta's Christian governor*




http://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-politics-idUSKBN1842GE?il=0


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## SirRumpole (9 May 2017)

Tisme said:


> Multiculturism isn't something Indonesia is going to see soon as it descends into the dark hole of Islamic radicalism.
> 
> Not sure how anyone could blaspheme against a Skyfairy , but I'd like HIM to press charges with his invisible lips and invisible fingers, rather than some self appointed sheriffs who don't have HIS phone number, HIS address and none have ever made contact to verify a code violation.
> 
> ...




Very disturbing in a country so close to us and of  considerable value to our economy.


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## Tisme (9 May 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Very disturbing in a country so close to us and of  considerable value to our economy.




If it continues to allow superstition to interfere with governance it won't have any value to anyone and descend into the trash of the third world where losers use religion to justify there own lack of moral right and benevolent courage.


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## Tisme (9 May 2017)

Here's one for the phobes:

http://www.ladbible.com/more/viral-woman-harasses-muslim-who-let-her-cut-the-queue-20170508


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## luutzu (9 May 2017)

Tisme said:


> If it continues to allow superstition to interfere with governance it won't have any value to anyone and descend into the trash of the third world where losers use religion to justify there own lack of moral right and benevolent courage.




I thought that that's when a foreign country is most valuable to certain group of imperialist?

Saudi Arabia is ruled by, hmm... "our kind of bastards", and it got on very well with some of the greatest democracies in the world.

Israel is basically the Moses version of Saudi Arabia with a tinge of turning the plebs out to vote now and then. They serve US fine.

Then there's the Taliban, Saddam kind of crazies. They serve US well when they're with us; and serve US equally well when they're no longer with us, or of use to us and we'll have to do liberation freedom stuff on their crimes (which we may or may not have been behind nodding and supplying tools and know how).

It's great to know what our great protector know how to make the most out of any situation.


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## orr (10 May 2017)

Merkel.... Germany... Refugee influx... How are things going?
A good friend of mine has been there just recently(wife's German goes back regularly). I'll update on he's on the ground observations.

Other reports are that Refugee's have added an estimated 1% to GDP... DYOR or reinforce your prejudice. Your choice...


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## bellenuit (10 May 2017)

orr said:


> Merkel.... Germany... Refugee influx... How are things going?
> A good friend of mine has been there just recently(wife's German goes back regularly). I'll update on he's on the ground observations.
> 
> Other reports are that Refugee's have added an estimated 1% to GDP... DYOR or reinforce your prejudice. Your choice...




An increase in crime requiring additional police resourcing will add to GDP. Replacing or repairing damaged property also increases GDP.

GDP measures all domestic product and services and as such is not a measure of a countries wellbeing. It can be a proxy measure if one assumes the mix of good "product and services" and bad "product and services" is relatively constant as that would indicate a normal expansion of the economy which in general is seen as good. However, attributing an increase in GDP to a particular group within the community requires deeper research as to whether it is a result of factors that are good (demand for products by that group, new businesses created by that group etc.) or bad (increased bureaucracy to deal with increased welfare demand, increased policing due to increased crime, increased building, repairs and maintenance due to damage etc.).

Does your report give reasons for the increased GDP?


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## luutzu (10 May 2017)

bellenuit said:


> An increase in crime requiring additional police resourcing will add to GDP. Replacing or repairing damaged property also increases GDP.
> 
> GDP measures all domestic product and services and as such is not a measure of a countries wellbeing. It can be a proxy measure if one assumes the mix of good "product and services" and bad "product and services" is relatively constant as that would indicate a normal expansion of the economy which in general is seen as good. However, attributing an increase in GDP to a particular group within the community requires deeper research as to whether it is a result of factors that are good (demand for products by that group, new businesses created by that group etc.) or bad (increased bureaucracy to deal with increased welfare demand, increased policing due to increased crime, increased building, repairs and maintenance due to damage etc.).
> 
> Does your report give reasons for the increased GDP?




That's one way to see it 

Let me try to imagine myself a refugee... So my homeland is being liberated, forcing my liberated self into either a refugee camp that's packed to the tent pole or sold everything I have, trek on land, by sea, by rail and whatever mean I can into a peaceful, prosperous country who's giving me a new beginning.

Should I now keep my head down, try to learn a new language, find work where I can at any pay rate so that I can send some money back home to my parents, siblings left behind... Or should I go commit crime and damage property so that I might be send home if caught.

Most people, even though Islam have infected their judgement and sense of right and wrong, tend to work hard and be good neighbours. If for no other reason than for one day in the future ISIS will call upon them to commit terrorism and die for Allah.


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## qldfrog (10 May 2017)

pixel said:


> We're told to be wary and delete emails pretending they're from Banks or Government agencies - especially if they contain typos and spelling errors.
> 
> "woman" and "they're" is an obvious clash, as is "longer no allowed"
> 
> ...



Pixel, english mistakes because the writer is probably non english, translation are correct, situation is as dire as described and for info France24 is the equivalent of ABC news. leftist liberal; suddenly, liberals start to realise that the more they support islam "religion opf peace and craps" the worse the women are, so the feminists start to wonder..will take them another generation to wake up..and you can note that the reports does not give a damn about males..do not be a white guys there believe me.
Anyway, a sad state but 49% of french voters did not want to change and voted for the Fraud socialist in disguise that is Macron.no hope.Same attitude in front of the current green pest now than in front of the Nazis brown one in 1940.But no US DDay landing ahead now.Putin?


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## dutchie (29 May 2017)

Merkel is right.

Angela Merkel: EU cannot completely rely on US and Britain any more.

Europe is dying anyway.


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## dutchie (17 June 2017)

Australians should show 'sensitivity' to migrants whose cultures 'don't value women's and child's rights' claims new domestic violence study

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4611618/Migrants-shown-cultural-sensitivity-says-study.html

A *taxpayer funded* study has made the audacious claim that Australians need to *show 'cultural sensitivity'* towards migrant men who physically abuse their wife and children.

WTF !


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## DB008 (17 June 2017)

That's it. I'm converting to Islam and moving to Germany


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## luutzu (17 June 2017)

DB008 said:


> View attachment 71565
> 
> 
> That's it. I'm converting to Islam and moving to Germany




But then you'd be a self-hating Muslim man. How will Muslim women find you attractive if you're that and plan to live off of welfare once they marry you?


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## luutzu (17 June 2017)

dutchie said:


> Merkel is right.
> 
> Angela Merkel: EU cannot completely rely on US and Britain any more.
> 
> Europe is dying anyway.




Trump's an idiot. He doesn't realise that practically all of Europe and Britain are vassal states of that indispensable nation on the hill. You don't go to your vassal and complaint about them screwing you over... you go to them, kick them in the face, then wait for the electronic transfer of funds. 

Trump is starting to crack that NATO alliance. It's not all his doing of course, he's not smart enough for that kind of thinking... it's the US way of pivoting that overstretched legions away from Europe and into Asia to confront the rising dragon. 

But then it's kinda stupid to want to lessen your presence so publicly *and* upsetting that other nuclear power. Got to learn from Hitler's mistake... fight one war at a time, don't attack your West and your East, and your Middle East, your Africa, and your South. 

Merkel is a bit upset and threatening to not go along with 'merka if its proposed new sanctions on Russia hurt German industries. How the heck do you expect Germany to pay more for NATO when you gut their corporations market?


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## dutchie (5 February 2018)




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## Tisme (12 June 2018)

http://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-mum...ng-murdered-teen-son-20180609?c=1528557267841


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## DB008 (19 June 2018)

*Salvini to LOCKDOWN Italy's coasts in latest bid*
*to stop illegal immigration*​
ITALY’s new eurosceptic government is bringing forward its anti-immigration policy with plans to lock down the country's coasts in a bid to slash the number of illegal immigrants reaching the country, Matteo Salvini announced.

Italian interior minister Matteo Salvini is setting out Italy’s new strategy to clamp down on illegal immigration.

The leader of rightwing party Lega warned the “good times are over” over the weekend as he vowed to stop two more migrant rescue charities from docking in Italian ports.

Salvini announced he is working with other Cabinet ministers on a strategy which will not only restrict the number of arrivals but will also diminish the presence of Italy’s ships in the Mediterranean.

He said: “We will have to take more care of our territory, therefore I will ask my colleagues of keeping our men and ships closer to our coasts.” 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/975931/italy-news-immigration-latest-matteo-salvini-aquarius​


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## macca (3 July 2018)

It would seem that the welcome mat is being withdrawn

https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/07/03/05/46/merkel-under-fire-in-germany-migrants-row


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## DB008 (3 July 2018)

*Protests in South Korea against Muslim refugees:*
*We don’t want to become like Europe*​
“It has become really bad in recent weeks and it is all because Jeju introduced a program that enabled people from 186 countries to come here without a tourist visa,” says Hank Kim, owner of the Core Travel Agency.

Kim continues: “Local people here are worried, we have all read about the problems that immigrants have caused in Europe — in Germany and France in particular — and we do not want that to happen here.”

There was also a protest in Seoul’s City Hall against the visa-waiver program in which hundreds of people participated. “We urge the government to put Korean citizens before refugees,” a rally organiser says.

“We are not against all refugees. But we should not accept foreigners who try to exploit the policy as a means of seeking economic interests and dodging the draft in their countries,” he adds.

Hank Kim, the travel agency owner says:

“We are also worried because of their religion. We have had no contact with Muslim people before, but we know that they all have big families and they bring their own culture instead of trying to adapt to the place where they live..”

The unrest was caused by 1,000 Yemeni refugees using the visa programme to enter South Korea’s Jeju resort island.


https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/07/p...-refugees-we-dont-want-to-become-like-europe/​


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## luutzu (3 July 2018)

DB008 said:


> *Protests in South Korea against Muslim refugees:*
> *We don’t want to become like Europe*​
> “It has become really bad in recent weeks and it is all because Jeju introduced a program that enabled people from 186 countries to come here without a tourist visa,” says Hank Kim, owner of the Core Travel Agency.
> 
> ...





See how much alike people are across culture and religion?


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## luutzu (3 July 2018)

macca said:


> It would seem that the welcome mat is being withdrawn
> 
> https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/07/03/05/46/merkel-under-fire-in-germany-migrants-row




The UN estimate there's about 65M refugees around the world right now. Letting in some 100,000 isn't exactly flunging the door wide open. Not saying it's not generous, it incredibly is, more so given the current hatred against poor starving people.

But did you know that Germany is more generous than most with their refugee intake because Germany have a still functioning manufacturing sector that need new labour to replace existing ones? It's not an entirely one-way street... but of course two-way like that is very kind and will benefit both the good Samaritan as well as those seeking refuge.


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## dutchie (20 August 2018)

multiculturalism - where one country exports their sh#thole to another country so that that country can become a sh#thole.


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## Tisme (20 August 2018)

dutchie said:


> multiculturalism - where one country exports their sh#thole to another country so that that country can become a sh#thole.




Don't hold back


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## DB008 (2 September 2018)

​


A group of refugees brutally attacked three men in a german city, killing one.

The refugees had been harassing some girls and the well respected german men came to their defense.

The man who died was so well liked that there was spontaneous marches. These marches swelled in size with other germans sick of refugee crime.

When the media caught wind of it, they were all denounced as Nazis. Meanwhile, the refugees were found to have forged asylum documents.


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## dutchie (30 December 2019)

Either does nationalism apparently...



How would you feel if Morrison or Albanese did this?


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