# Official ASF Policy on Ramping



## Joe Blow

As ASF has grown the amount of ramping in stock threads has increased noticably and it has become apparent to me very recently that in order to maintain standards here I needed to put together an official ASF policy on ramping. In this post I want to outline what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to post in stock threads.


If you state that a stock's share price is going to go up or down you *MUST* provide reasoning for your point of view. Posts that fail to provide any reasoning will be deleted without notice by myself or one of ASF's moderators. I understand that some will see this as 'heavy handed' moderation but the only alternative to this is to see standards of posting here drop to an unacceptable level and I am not willing to stand by and watch this happen.

Posts that refer to some unidentified individual (a friend, a colleague or an insider) who has told you that a stock is about to move in one direction or another will be treated the same way and removed ASAP.

Every statement you make must be able to be substantiated. For example it is not permissable to state that 'drilling results are about to be released and they will be positive' unless this statement is able to be substantiated. Posts that contain unsubstantiated statements will be removed without notice.

Stocks are not to be recommended to others as a definite "buy" or "sell". As most of you are aware only licensed financial advisors can provide financial advice and recommending stocks to others as a "buy" or "sell" is inappropriate in a forum such as this. There are many other more appropriate terms that can be used to describe your view of a company's worth in relation to its share price such as "undervalued" and "overvalued", just to name a couple.

All posts in a stock thread must contain some meaningful content. Bumping a stock thread by posting a smilie, a single word or an unrelated comment is not permitted and these posts will be removed without notice. 

Posting a series of posts that contain nothing more than a running commentary on a stock's intraday price action is discouraged as a single post is enough to alert others to a stock that seeing a significant move in one direction or another.  

The creation of threads asking others to recommend their 'hot stocks' or 'hot stock tips' is discouraged and these threads will be closed or deleted as they are primarily used for ramping.

It will only be possible to maintain high standards here at ASF with the co-operation of the entire community, that is why I am asking members to report any incidents of blatant ramping. In the top right of every post you will notice this symbol '
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 '. If you click on it you will be able to report that particular post and alert myself and the moderators to it. As we are unable to review every thread reporting unacceptable posts will help us a great deal in our efforts to stamp out ramping on ASF.

In summary, if you are not prepared to present a reasoned argument for your position/views on a stock then please consider not posting. I would much rather have fewer quality posts than a truckload of ramping posts. I suspect most ASF members feel the same way. For those who would prefer simply to ramp or downramp stocks, there are many other forums that will welcome you with open arms. Here at ASF we are determined to maintain a certain level of posting and continued ramping will ultimately result in the suspension of your ASF account.

Comments and feedback on this policy are welcomed.


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## Porper

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> As ASF has grown the amount of ramping in stock threads has increased noticably and it has become apparent to me very recently that in order to maintain standards here I needed to put together an official ASF policy on ramping. In this post I want to outline what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to post in stock threads.
> 
> 
> If you state that a stock's share price is going to go up or down you *MUST* provide reasoning for your point of view. Posts that fail to provide any reasoning will be deleted without notice by myself or one of ASF's moderators. I understand that some will see this as 'heavy handed' moderation but the only alternative to this is to see standards of posting here drop to an unacceptable level and I am not willing to stand by and watch this happen.
> 
> Posts that refer to some unidentified individual (a friend, a colleague or an insider) who has told you that a stock is about to move in one direction or another will be treated the same way and removed ASAP.
> 
> Every statement you make must be able to be substantiated. For example it is not permissable to state that 'drilling results are about to be released and they will be positive' unless this statement is able to be substantiated. Posts that contain unsubstantiated statements will be removed without notice.
> 
> Stocks are not to be recommended to others as a definite "buy" or "sell". As most of you are aware only licensed financial advisors can provide financial advice and recommending stocks to others as a "buy" or "sell" is inappropriate in a forum such as this. There are many other more appropriate terms that can be used to describe your view of a company's worth in relation to its share price such as "undervalued" and "overvalued", just to name a couple.
> 
> All posts in a stock thread must contain some meaningful content. Bumping a stock thread by posting a smilie, a single word or an unrelated comment is not permitted and these posts will be removed without notice.
> 
> Posting a series of posts that contain nothing more than a running commentary on a stock's intraday price action is discouraged as a single post is enough to alert others to a stock that seeing a significant move in one direction or another.
> 
> The creation of threads asking others to recommend their 'hot stocks' or 'hot stock tips' is discouraged and these threads will be closed or deleted as they are primarily used for ramping.
> 
> It will only be possible to maintain high standards here at ASF with the co-operation of the entire community, that is why I am asking members to report any incidents of blatant ramping. In the top right of every post you will notice this symbol '
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> '. If you click on it you will be able to report that particular post and alert myself and the moderators to it. As we are unable to review every thread reporting unacceptable posts will help us a great deal in our efforts to stamp out ramping on ASF.
> 
> In summary, if you are not prepared to present a reasoned argument for your position/views on a stock then please consider not posting. I would much rather have fewer quality posts than a truckload of ramping posts. I suspect most ASF members feel the same way. For those who would prefer simply to ramp or downramp stocks, there are many other forums that will welcome you with open arms. Here at ASF we are determined to maintain a certain level of posting and continued ramping will ultimately result in the suspension of your ASF account.
> 
> Comments and feedback on this policy are welcomed.




I for one am totally for these rules Joe, we have all noticed the ramping getting a bigger and bigger problem I am sure. JPR was a prime case where some ASF members got sucked in.

If people want to make money by ramping stocks to unsuspecting newbies while they get out, then try another very well known forum that is 95% rampers.You all know where to find it, if not PM me and I'll give you the link


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## rederob

It's a hard sell.
Can't see them buying it!


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## 2020hindsight

OK I'll stop ramping my LEG up. 

I guess if you had a premonition that something was going to go up, that wouldn't truck either.    Where does "Zen" sit in this policy?

Gee Yogi is going to be in trubel lol.

PS I guess we all get thousands of emails (usually USA origin) recommending stock that are "sure to go wild" tomorrow etc !  They're wasting their time sending them to me - I mean it's not as if I don't BELIEVE them , it's just that I cant afford USA brokerage !! lol.

PS Joe - question - How about " I read an article , source unstated , that claims XYZ will do well in the next 6 months - take it or leave it, do your own research!",   Not meaning to be difficult - (you da boss lol) - but you don't say what we CAN say - only what we can't.  mmm maybe you would disagree (must provide reasoning )... mmm  my mother in law couldnt reason her waay out of a paper bag .  (seemed such a GOOD idea at the time )


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## laurie

I may have enthusiasm for a certain stock which may be confused as ramping but as always *D Y O R *. I thought it's a must! if people are silly enough to follow the pipe piper then how far must one go to protect them  

cheers laurie


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## sails

Hi Joe,

I think this is a great move to introduce such clear guidelines covering all ASF posters and draws a clear line in the sand of what is acceptable and what is not at ASF.  Well done!

Cheers,
Margaret.


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## Julia

sails said:
			
		

> Hi Joe,
> 
> I think this is a great move to introduce such clear guidelines covering all ASF posters and draws a clear line in the sand of what is acceptable and what is not at ASF.  Well done!
> 
> Cheers,
> Margaret.




Ditto Margaret's comments from me, Joe.

Julia


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## Mumbank

Thanks Joe,
I'm with Julia and Sails. FWIW I have learnt lots from this forum, I don't always post unless I have something to say, but have enjoyed what I have learnt and the links for research etc.  I think that the  posts with 1 or 2 words, 6 times a day take lots away from what the majority find useful about this forum.

Keep up the good work.


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## nioka

laurie said:
			
		

> I may have enthusiasm for a certain stock which may be confused as ramping  but as always *D Y O R * I thought it's a must! if people are silly enough to follow the pipe piper then how far must one go to protect them
> 
> cheers laurie



I guess there has to be a balance. I have a lot of enthusiasm for a few stocks at the moment and I want to hear other opinions. I make an assesment on the spion doctoring by checking, usually in the announcements, and I have found a lot to be correct. I hope you won't be too hard Joe. Yesterday I started a thread on Lynas. I got some information from a close friend who works in the area where the mine is located. On his advice I researched the company and, in my opinion, it is a goer. I bought 10,000 shares and thought I'd share the info. I would expect anyone interested to do there own research. Is this acceptable?


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## Happy

I concentrated Joe’s post to -

If you state that a stock's share price is going to go up or down you MUST provide reasoning

Every statement you make must be able to be substantiated.

Stocks are not to be recommended to others as a definite "buy" or "sell".

All posts in a stock thread must contain some meaningful content.



If we comply with these, we have right to post.


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## rub92me

Joe, from what I've seen from your posts so far, I expect you will be reasonable in applying this policy. However, it does raise the question what is considered a 'sufficient' reason to be positive or negative about a stock.
Say my 'method' for picking a stock is tossing a coin or throwing a dart. Will you delete the post if I specifically state that that is how I came to my choice? Are stars, tea leafs, crystal balls allowed? Some people would consider these to have equal predictive power as a chart....


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## silence

Joe, good policy.


Also, don't be afraid to temporarily ban people who do it. This forum software has options to ban people for 24 hours, 48 hours, 1 week, etc as 
I'm sure you know. I am a member of another forum with 65000+ members and this happens often when members abuse others, make threats or talk about illegal software, etc, and keeps people in check very well. They tend to learn quickly.


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## laurie

rub92me said:
			
		

> Joe, from what I've seen from your posts so far, I expect you will be reasonable in applying this policy. However, it does raise the question what is considered a 'sufficient' reason to be positive or negative about a stock.
> Say my 'method' for picking a stock is tossing a coin or throwing a dart. Will you delete the post if I specifically state that that is how I came to my choice? Are stars, tea leafs, crystal balls allowed? Some people would consider these to have equal predictive power as a chart....




very true like my "Gut Feeling" arh well looks like I will just be a passive viewer here now   

cheers laurie


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## son of baglimit

but porper, without my NMS ramp you'd never have got involved.

ok its been a loser for some, but surely things are looking brighter - this aint a ramp !!


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## krisbarry

The past couple of weeks has seen crazy amounts of ramping going on from within government ranks stemming from the Prime Minister down.

*The government has ramped the guts out of TLS*

*This week we have seen the media ramp the guts out of PBL*

*...and in the latest SmartInvestor magazine we see them ramping the guts out of BHP, RIO, Woodsie etc*

Of course they all give good reasons, scenarios, forcasts, etc...

But it is nothing more or less than simple rampings!


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## Joe Blow

Firstly thanks to all who have offered their support for this new policy. I think it will make ASF a much more useful, valuable resource and it is very pleasing to see that so many others want to maintain standards here. 



			
				2020hindsight said:
			
		

> PS Joe - question - How about " I read an article , source unstated , that claims XYZ will do well in the next 6 months - take it or leave it, do your own research!", Not meaning to be difficult - (you da boss lol) - but you don't say what we CAN say - only what we can't.




I would prefer it if you could say where the article was from (or quote some of it), but aside from that I can't see a problem with posting something like that. As far as I am concerned it is all about contributing something to the body of knowledge that each stock thread contains. Even if that contribution is as small as an interesting question. What I am trying to do is eliminate blatant, shameless ramping which I think most of us can agree is anything but useful.



			
				rub92me said:
			
		

> Joe, from what I've seen from your posts so far, I expect you will be reasonable in applying this policy. However, it does raise the question what is considered a 'sufficient' reason to be positive or negative about a stock.
> Say my 'method' for picking a stock is tossing a coin or throwing a dart. Will you delete the post if I specifically state that that is how I came to my choice? Are stars, tea leafs, crystal balls allowed? Some people would consider these to have equal predictive power as a chart....




I want to make it clear that I do not want ASF to turn some kind of a police state. All I am trying to do is:

a) Get rid of serial rampers who contribute no content at all, and;
b) Maintain a certain level of posting. I don't really think anyone here wants ASF to be over-run by rampers. The most valuable posts are always the ones with meaningful content and they are the sort of posts I wish to encourage.

I would have some difficulty with the coin tossing, dart throwing and tea leaves scenarios, unless of course they were tongue in cheek.  : 



			
				nioka said:
			
		

> I hope you won't be too hard Joe. Yesterday I started a thread on Lynas. I got some information from a close friend who works in the area where the mine is located. On his advice I researched the company and, in my opinion, it is a goer. I bought 10,000 shares and thought I'd share the info. I would expect anyone interested to do there own research. Is this acceptable?




The mods and I are going to be firm but not too tough. In the example you gave I would be more interested in your research than the information from your friend, although if you included both I can't see a problem with this. I would have a bigger problem if you posted, "My friend who works in the area the mine is located says the price of Lynas will triple by next week!". As you said, it's all about balance.


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## Joe Blow

Also, for those who missed it please take a look at this thread on posting price targets for stocks, as it is very much related to this new policy.


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## Sweet Synergy

Hi every one! .... I've just joined ASF and think it's a great forum. Would love to see it stay that way   .  
Like your ideas on the new rulz Joe!!! ... I think it's all about sharing and learning  >>>  so asking us to explain whats behind our post is a great idea.  Thanks for the guidance


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## chops_a_must

This ramping thread share price is going to go ballistic today. I am sure of it.


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## nelly

Hey Joe...how goes it...?
You know I don't post for or agains't a stock.... I do have a small investment and that I do read em all and am on a steep learning curve......but am not personally stooopid enuf to really listen to a ramp....hopefully no one else is either.....I hear you and love this forum because of the standards.that are set.....of course DYOR is paramount.......whether it be crystal gazing, meditating or hanging by the b#lls.....each to their own........luv ya!
Fully in accordance.....
Cheerful.....
ps   MERRY XMAS!


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## Joe Blow

A reminder that stock threads are not for telling us what stocks you bought, how much you bought or what price you bought it for.... unless you are illustrating your methodology or making some kind of bigger point. If the rest of your post is filled with some of the abovementioned analysis or information and you happen to make mention of it in passing then fair enough, but I am specifically referring to posts that only contain information about what stock you bought, how much your bought or at what price a stock was purchased or sold for.

These kind of posts will be removed as they serve absolutely no purpose and are completely unverifiable.

I know this is not technically ramping (although I can see how it could be used to ramp) but by putting it in this thread it will be sure to get some attention.


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## mmmmining

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*

*Admin note:* The following section of this thread was a discussion on ramping that was split off from another thread.



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> Gents,
> I would also like to point out that inflamatory language like 'loading up' is interpreted as ramping.
> Kennas



Just remind me of what communist China did, or something Mr Bush said "Either with us, or against us". Why everything is either black or white? Can we have some gray area?

Do we need this kind of over-policing? SIR??? Can we have some fun, colorful language, and have some personality? Or this forum will become boring politically correctness junk staff. It will really turn me off.


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## Sean K

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*



			
				mmmmining said:
			
		

> Just remind me of what communist China did, or something Mr Bush said "Either with us, or against us". Why everything is either black or white? Can we have some gray area?
> 
> Do we need this kind of over-policing? SIR??? Can we have some fun, colorful language, and have some personality? Or this forum will become boring politically correctness junk staff. It will really turn me off.



You're comparing ASF policy on ramping to Communist China? 

Let's have fun, but don't ramp. Simple.


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## Joe Blow

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*



			
				mmmmining said:
			
		

> Can we have some fun, colorful language, and have some personality?




Indeed you can. Have absolutely no problem with any of the above. 

The only thing the mods and I have a problem with is ramping and its not something we're going to ease up on. 

No ramping, no problem. It's that simple.


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## mmmmining

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> You're comparing ASF policy on ramping to Communist China?
> 
> Let's have fun, but don't ramp. Simple.



It looks like you have the gun, and read to shot anything that is moving by rolling a dice.

I respect ASF's policy. 

But I don't agree with someone's extended definition of "Ramping' or "Downramping". It will restrict free speech, and most importantly to this forum, the free thinking, and fresh idea.


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## Sean K

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*



			
				mmmmining said:
			
		

> It looks like you have the gun, and read to shot anything that is moving by rolling a dice.
> 
> I respect ASF's policy.
> 
> But I don't agree with someone's extended definition of "Ramping' or "Downramping". It will restrict free speech, and most importantly to this forum, the free thinking, and fresh idea.



There's always a fine line and it's hard to manage. I disagree that I shoot down anything, depending on if heads or tails come up. I actually think I have been very moderate in moderating, and I usually give people a chance to expand on their ramps in some way.   I usually leave the ramp there and just ask for some more analysis, as I have done in this thread. That's all. Golly, one simple request and kaboom!


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## mmmmining

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> There's always a fine line and it's hard to manage. I disagree that I shoot down anything, depending on if heads or tails come up. I actually think I have been very moderate in moderating, and I usually give people a chance to expand on their ramps in some way.   I usually leave the ramp there and just ask for some more analysis, as I have done in this thread. That's all. Golly, one simple request and kaboom!



Kennas,

Why don't you do the following if you consider it as ramping:

1. Remove it immediately from the thread;
2. Send a private message to whoever he/she is

I am annoyed by so many ramping warnings in public because it cuts off my thinking stream. I believe whoever branded as ramping or downramping will try to argue with you in public. It will sidetrack any useful thinking, make it so ugly.


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## Joe Blow

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*

I am moving the last seven posts (this one included) to the thread on ASF's ramping policy so we can keep the SRZ thread on topic.


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## Sean K

*Re: SRZ - Stellar Resources*



			
				mmmmining said:
			
		

> Kennas,
> 
> Why don't you do the following if you consider it as ramping:
> 
> 1. Remove it immediately from the thread;
> 2. Send a private message to whoever he/she is
> 
> I am annoyed by so many ramping warnings in public because it cuts off my thinking stream. I believe whoever branded as ramping or downramping will try to argue with you in public. It will sidetrack any useful thinking, make it so ugly.



Hi mmmming, 

Thanks for the advice. Yes, this has been occuring because I have been trying to educate people in the way we would like them to participate on the forum and at the same time allow other people to see what is acceptable and not. I can totally understand how it puts people off. It still requires some sence of judgement and therefore your understanding of what is acceptable or not, will be different to everybody elses... I'll try and stick to PMs from now on, and deleting - but there will be times when an open warning is appropriate. 

Hopefully, other members of ASF will assist all round by picking up the obvious ramps and questioning people on their unjustified 'recommendations'. There are a few around who have been doing this, and I have been thanking them for it. It really helps the mods to keep things real.

Cheers,
Kennas


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## insider

Hey Kennas, Nice blog!. If the Uranium Pretenders thread gets out of hand then remove it... I won't be offended...


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## Joe Blow

Just on the topic of ramping, here is a post from another forum renowned for its ramping. The stock being referred to is currently trading at 28c and has ranged between 25c and 30c for months. 



			
				ramper on another forum said:
			
		

> $5 target for sure... i am loading up every available ferrari and Bugatti i can find hehehehe.... will easily gap up to 40c any day now... then smooth sailing towards $5... once again the drones have failed with there deramps... NFI nappy traders................................




Just wondering if this is the kind of posting that people would like to see on ASF? It's certainly not the direction I'd like to see this forum take.


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## laurie

So one's to assume from the above example saying *"blue sky ahead"* is ramping
also *"get on the train"* and *"train leaving station"* *"heading north"* is ramping! just for my own benefit Joe as I do use those terms but to me not as a ramp   

cheers laurie


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## Joe Blow

laurie said:
			
		

> So one's to assume from the above example saying *"blue sky ahead"* is ramping
> also *"get on the train"* and *"train leaving station"* *"heading north"* is ramping! just for my own benefit Joe as I do use those terms but to me not as a ramp
> 
> cheers laurie




Laurie, using expressions like "blue sky ahead" and "heading north" is not necessarily ramping (although I think the other two are kind of unneccessary). It is ramping if you fail to present any sort of analysis or reasoning as to why you believe this is the case. All we are asking people to do is back up their views using information and analysis so we can all evaluate it.


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## Moneybags

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Just on the topic of ramping, here is a post from another forum renowned for its ramping. The stock being referred to is currently trading at 28c and has ranged between 25c and 30c for months.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering if this is the kind of posting that people would like to see on ASF? It's certainly not the direction I'd like to see this forum take.




Joe,

That sounds like a poster called Money Machine.........he is a complete moron and has also claimed BHP to hit $400. I personally think his posts are generally $hit stirring and most other posters treat him with disdain.

I think people here are wise enough to spot a ramp and many will be accused of ramping when in fact they are merely trying to alert members to a stock. 

It's a toughy..........and hard to moderate fairly I'm sure..........but please lets not take this thing too far and make posting on ASF unattractive for those whose views we aspire to.

Cheers

MB


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## constable

chops_a_must said:
			
		

> This ramping thread share price is going to go ballistic today. I am sure of it.



yeah i picked up a 10000000 @ 2cents man you got to get on this, i see the smart money's all over it, im gonna buy more if its starts to fall top up now while they're still cheap,you know they're capping it,plus a heard on the grape vine their a definite takeover target (and this blokes a really good source).
hope your still holding chops should be a big day today dont worry about the cappers! he he he


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## constable

Seriously it doesnt take much to present your opinion with a little bit of fact while leaving out the hype.
Good luck moderators on ramping, it would be tough spending more time watching the forum than the market. This we all benefit from though.
At the end of the day though we (each member) are responsible for the stocks we purchase nobody else. People can blame ramping (when it all goes pear shaped)but you'd be a fool. Tight stops are your responsibility!


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## lesm

The views of people on this thread are quite interesting.

Having read comments, such as 'Communist China' , 'right of opinion', etc.

Ramping is considered to be manipulation of the market and unlawful. The ramper is only interested in their own financial gain and has no real concern whether you make or lose money.

It's not really about restricting people's ability to discuss, argue or have an opinion on stocks or other instruments, but to do it in a manner that is not construed as being unlawful.

Some of the ways information are presented may not be meant as ramping, but just naive excitement and/or exuberation. So, what is so hard about providing some analysis or substantiation to back up people's claims.

It would not hurt for the more senior members and experienced traders to help Joe and the moderators to maintain ASF as a good quality site. Sometimes asking a question related to the poster providing more information may be a more productive and positive approach.

As a site operator Joe has a number of obligations, as well as protecting his own interests.

In 1999 the Australian Securities & Investments Commission (ASIC) established a unit to monitor activities on the Internet. Media Release inlcuded below. Sites, such as ASF and chat rooms, are being constantly monitored anyway



> ASIC APPOINTS CYBERCOP
> Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) Acting Deputy Chairman Jillian Segal today announced the appointment of Tim Phillipps to lead its new national electronic enforcement unit based in Sydney.
> 
> Mr Phillipps was previously ASIC’s NSW Director of Enforcement. His leadership of this new unit demonstrates ASIC’s high level commitment to electronic enforcement.
> 
> The new unit aims to increase ASIC’s ability to take swift and effective action against unlawful behaviour on the Internet and focus on building expertise in the electronic world.
> 
> Mr Phillipps has already been extensively involved in working on ASIC internet surveillance and enforcement.
> 
> Ms Segal said electronic enforcement was a new area for regulators and it presented a raft of technological opportunities and challenges.
> 
> “The new unit will be staffed by legal, investigation and technical experts who have extensive backgrounds in dealing with electronic commerce and the regulatory issues which are associated with it,” Ms Segal said.
> 
> “This commitment by ASIC is part of the Commission’s overall strategy on electronic commerce which is well advanced and will be announced progressively over the next 12 months.
> 
> Ms Segal said enforcement of the internet played a vital role in maintaining consumer confidence in the electronic markets.
> She said ASIC had received increasing numbers of complaints about suspect websites and chat rooms, frequently associated with possible attempts to ramp share prices or otherwise manipulate the market.
> 
> “A number of investigations are already in progress, and we recently took action in the Federal court to restrain the operations of one site operator whom we felt had overstepped the mark,” she said.
> 
> For further information contact:
> Irene O’Brien
> ASIC Media Unit
> Tel: (02) 9911 2097
> ASIC 99/112
> A S I C
> Australian Securities &
> Investments Commission


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## REA

I am interested in LESM'S views on electronic manipulation.  Ramping is undesirable but at least you respect it for what it is, on persons pushing  a particular share.  I suppose the problem arises if there are many people intent on driving up a share for their own reasons.  I think we have to be given more credit for our decisions.  We have all bought a used car and it is buyer beware at all times.  

I am more disheartened by professionals manipulation of the market.


Stockbrokers putting in sale and buy bids that they have no intention of  completing and also manipulating the market to their own ends.

Directors alloting shares and options to themselves, we all know that  all existing uranium hopefuls will not go into production but I bet that there will be a lot of very rich directors at the end of the day.

The likes of well known institutions writing to shareholders in December offering  68c for Marathon shares, they should tell their Chinese clients to get real.  There was a story on TV about a similar occurances tonight.

What about options and shares being alloted at reduced prices to favoured people and organisations.

I am only a small investor and have only been trading for 8 months but I think it is the devil you never hear from in share trading that will send you broke.

I await being corrected.

Robyn


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## lesm

REA said:
			
		

> Ramping is undesirable but at least you respect it for what it is, on persons pushing  a particular share.  I suppose the problem arises if there are many people intent on driving up a share for their own reasons.  I think we have to be given more credit for our decisions.  We have all bought a used car and it is buyer beware at all times.
> Robyn




My intent was to actually highlight that the issue related to ramping is potentially a bit more serious than just Joe or the moderators appearing to impose their own view.

Are you actually aware of who and what ASIC is, or that you are effectiveley a participant operating/transacting within a regulated environment, where ASIC is the regulator and responsible for administering the relevant legislation.

Would suggest that you might like to read the Financial Services Reform Act 2001 - Schedule 1.



> Part 7.10 ”” Market misconduct and other prohibited conduct relating to financial products and financial services
> 
> Division 1 ”” Preliminary
> 
> 1040A   Content of Part
> 
> This Part deals in Division 2 with various kinds of prohibited conduct, other than insider trading. The insider trading prohibitions are contained in Division 3.
> 
> Division 2 ”” The prohibited conduct (other than insider trading prohibitions)
> 
> 1041A   Market manipulation




There are also offence provisions either civil or criminal depending on the nature of the offence.

With respect to your buyer beware comment.

Are you also aware of the Trade Practices Act (C'th) or the relevant Consumer Protection Act or equivalent legislation within the jurisdiction where you reside.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, you may attempt to argue it but you cannot plead it.


----------



## Happy

With all respect to legislators and CYBERCOP



> ASIC APPOINTS CYBERCOP
> Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) Acting Deputy Chairman Jillian Segal today announced the appointment of Tim Phillipps to lead its new national electronic enforcement unit based in Sydney.




From posts above we know that they are there, but if offending sites still remain open and offending posters still post crap to their heart content it is understandable to be sceptical if not sarcastic.

Hope that making comment like Nike (DO IT !) to our watchful enforcers will not offend them.


----------



## Snakey

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*

*Admin note:* The following 10 posts were split off from the 'WMT - Western Metals' thread and moved into this thread:



			
				jemma said:
			
		

> It called accumulation before moving significantly higher, which is what will happen next week.



This is Big Brother
Housemates....This forum has no place for foresight, optimisium, judgement, opinions or predictions. Please if any one has a opinion ....keep it to yourself as it will be seen as either ramping for a nice exit or down ramping for accumulation. Thank You :ald:


----------



## x2rider

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*

Sorry snakey, but I would have to side with Joe. I would rather see the "prediction"  backed up by even some sort of analysis, or even a chart. While it might be fine to write DYOR at the bottom of the posts if you get told something long enough after a while you might start to believe it. I would rather learn the method in arriving at the  future price than the straight statement.

I do hold WMT and would love it to go higher. But I would rather be on for a nice steady climb than a huge ramp and then the **** fall out of the SP.

 Cheers martin


----------



## Snakey

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				x2rider said:
			
		

> Sorry snakey, but I would have to side with Joe. I would rather see the "prediction" backed up by even some sort of analysis, or even a chart. While it might be fine to write DYOR at the bottom of the posts if you get told something long enough after a while you might start to believe it. I would rather learn the method in arriving at the future price than the straight statement.
> 
> I do hold WMT and would love it to go higher. But I would rather be on for a nice steady climb than a huge ramp and then the **** fall out of the SP.
> 
> Cheers martin




Agree x2rider but i think jemma genuinely believes that this will go up again soon and think shes entitled to an opinion. Sometimes its very hard to give reasons. Especially when you not using analysis or fundermentals to predict movements. We all predict movements in different ways and some of those ways are not describable with charts and fundermentals. If this forum is only for charties and fundermentalists then I have no place here.


----------



## jemma

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Snakey said:
			
		

> Agree x2rider but i think jemma genuinely believes that this will go up again soon and think shes entitled to an opinion. Sometimes its very hard to give reasons. Especially when you not using analysis or fundermentals to predict movements. We all predict movements in different ways and some of those ways are not describable with charts and fundermentals. If this forum is only for charties and fundermentalists then I have no place here.




Thanks snakey, what Joe does not understand is that if you watch a stock every day for 3 hours, you get a feel for the individual way it moves, every stock moves in its own way. Joe Blow does not allow for this.


----------



## Joe Blow

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*

Snakey, if you are not using any type of analysis to predict price movement, then what are you using? A hunch? Tea leaves? That crystal ball of yours?

It's easy enough for anyone to post in one of the stock threads here that a stock is going to go up next week. If its based on nothing but a guess or self-interest, then what does that offer to others who are reading the thread? Absolutely nothing. There is much to be learnt here at ASF. Almost 5000 threads now, some of which are absolute gold. I have learnt a great deal in the two and a half years this forum has been around. I have learnt much from those who offer up their knowledge for no cost to explain different methodologies, forms of analysis, trading systems and so on. I have never learnt anything from a ramper. I suspect nobody else has either.

Ramping is like a disease on stock forums. Wherever you seem to go, stock market forums the world over - by and large (there are exceptions) - seem to be polluted with rampers and ramping. One of the reasons I started this forum is because I wanted to create a stock forum that was friendly (as possible   ), had a sense of fun, and most importantly, as little ramping as possible. I never realised how difficult it would be. Ramping is an absolute plague. The mods and I fight it every day and the battle just gets harder and harder. I understand that holders want their stocks to go up. I currently hold stocks and I would like them to go up. But ramping is a cop out. Why are the only people ramping stocks those who hold them? Because they are motivated by self-interest and nothing more. Yes, it is harder to learn how do a fundamental analysis on a company or to learn different ways of analysing price action but at least when people present some facts and analysis in a post they are giving others something to chew on and work off. Rampers offer up nothing. 

All I ask is that if people are going to post in the stock threads (other threads  in the other forums I only ask that people keep on topic) then every post should offer *something* to the reader. Every post (with the odd exception of course) should be useful in some way even if the poster is just asking an interesting question.

It's funny, the harder I get on ramping, the more the traffic to ASF increases. It gives me confidence that my policy is the right thing for this forum. The feedback I have gotten is that people like that there is more signal and less noise here than on many other forums. I plan on doing my best to try and keep it that way.

For those that just want to chat during trading hours, I suggest trying the ASF chatroom which you can reach by click on 'Chat' in the navigation bar above. In the stock threads I would really prefer simply to see information and analysis.  And the odd joke of course.    

So I will continue to crack down on ramping and will be instructing the mods to do the same. For those who wish to ramp there are plenty of other forums that will welcome you with open arms. Unfortunately ASF is not one of them.

This post was not aimed specifcally at you Snakey but is just a general comment on my views on ramping on why I run this forum the way I do.

*Edit:* I will probably move this post and any responding to it to the offical ramping policy thread later tonight so feel free to respond to this post in this thread, even though it is *ahem* off topic.


----------



## dubiousinfo

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Joe Blow said:
			
		

> It's easy enough for anyone to post in one of the stock threads here that a stock is going to go up next week. If its based on nothing but a guess or self-interest, then what does that offer to others who are reading the thread? Absolutely nothing.
> 
> Ramping is like a disease on stock forums. Wherever you seem to go, stock market forums the world over - by and large (there are exceptions) - seem to be polluted with rampers and ramping.




 :iagree: 

Keep up the great work Joe. Hot copper is only a few clicks away for anyone that doesn't like the policy.


----------



## Snakey

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Snakey, if you are not using any type of analysis to predict price movement, then what are you using? A hunch? Tea leaves? That crystal ball of yours?
> 
> It's easy enough for anyone to post in one of the stock threads here that a stock is going to go up next week. If its based on nothing but a guess or self-interest, then what does that offer to others who are reading the thread? Absolutely nothing. There is much to be learnt here at ASF. Almost 5000 threads now, some of which are absolute gold. I have learnt a great deal in the two and a half years this forum has been around. I have learnt much from those who offer up their knowledge for no cost to explain different methodologies, forms of analysis, trading systems and so on. I have never learnt anything from a ramper. I suspect nobody else has either.
> 
> Ramping is like a disease on stock forums. Wherever you seem to go, stock market forums the world over - by and large (there are exceptions) - seem to be polluted with rampers and ramping. One of the reasons I started this forum is because I wanted to create a stock forum that was friendly (as possible   ), had a sense of fun, and most importantly, as little ramping as possible. I never realised how difficult it would be. Ramping is an absolute plague. The mods and I fight it every day and the battle just gets harder and harder. I understand that holders want their stocks to go up. I currently hold stocks and I would like them to go up. But ramping is a cop out. Why are the only people ramping stocks those who hold them? Because they are motivated by self-interest and nothing more. Yes, it is harder to learn how do a fundamental analysis on a company or to learn different ways of analysing price action but at least when people present some facts and analysis in a post they are giving others something to chew on and work off. Rampers offer up nothing.
> 
> All I ask is that if people are going to post in the stock threads (other threads  in the other forums I only ask that people keep on topic) then every post should offer *something* to the reader. Every post (with the odd exception of course) should be useful in some way even if the poster is just asking an interesting question.
> 
> It's funny, the harder I get on ramping, the more the traffic to ASF increases. It gives me confidence that my policy is the right thing for this forum. The feedback I have gotten is that people like that there is more signal and less noise here than on many other forums. I plan on doing my best to try and keep it that way.
> 
> For those that just want to chat during trading hours, I suggest trying the ASF chatroom which you can reach by click on 'Chat' in the navigation bar above. In the stock threads I would really prefer simply to see information and analysis.  And the odd joke of course.
> 
> So I will continue to crack down on ramping and will be instructing the mods to do the same. For those who wish to ramp there are plenty of other forums that will welcome you with open arms. Unfortunately ASF is not one of them.
> 
> This post was not aimed specifcally at you Snakey but is just a general comment on my views on ramping on why I run this forum the way I do.
> 
> *Edit:* I will probably move this post and any responding to it to the offical ramping policy thread later tonight so feel free to respond to this post in this thread, even though it is *ahem* off topic.




Well joe im not a ramper (calling movements on stocks for self benifit) I call movements on stocks for other peoples benifit ( that is if they decide to listen) its their choice, their money, their descision. I understand your position on ramping and I want to use a reputable forum as with most people.
I dont have a crystal ball ...I predict movements by behavior of the stocks... same as jemma...how do you describe that in a post ?I have no idea. I used the crystal ball as an excuse because I must give a reason for my claims.
I do use fundermentals and charting to back my predition. Sometimes though I feel you can be a bit harsh see my top 20 thread. I cant see how posting a stock code by itself can be called a ramp. I posted WMT because I like this stock and also wanted to bump the thread to increase its awareness. This was a great thread and it was a great shame to close it. I posted one stock individually at a time to maximise my opportunity to bump the thread for awareness only. I also bumped it with my favourite stocks. Still working on rule change to reopen thread.
I dont know if we have achieved anything today with this discussion ...maybe just more awareness.
Snakey


----------



## Joe Blow

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Snakey said:
			
		

> Well joe im not a ramper (calling movements on stocks for self benifit) I call movements on stocks for other peoples benifit ( that is if they decide to listen) its their choice, their money, their descision. I understand your position on ramping and I want to use a reputable forum as with most people.
> I dont have a crystal ball ...I predict movements by behavior of the stocks... same as jemma...how do you describe that in a post ?I have no idea. I used the crystal ball as an excuse because I must give a reason for my claims.
> I do use fundermentals and charting to back my predition. Sometimes though I feel you can be a bit harsh see my top 20 thread. I cant see how posting a stock code by itself can be called a ramp. I posted WMT because I like this stock and also wanted to bump the thread to increase its awareness. This was a great thread and it was a great shame to close it. I posted one stock individually at a time to maximise my opportunity to bump the thread for awareness only. I also bumped it with my favourite stocks. Still working on rule change to reopen thread.
> I dont know if we have achieved any today with this discussion ...maybe just more awareness.
> Snakey




Snakey, I'm not trying to pick on anyone I'm just trying to maintain some standards. There is no corporate money behind this forum. I'm an ordinary bloke living in an ordinary house on Brisbane's southside. I drive a $4000 Commodore and tonight I am drinking a cleanskin $4 Merlot I ordered by the dozen off the internet. The fact that this forum is even as big as it is (I believe its the third or fourth busiest in the country) is a miracle. I'm not a businessman, I'm just an interested amateur like many others. What I'm trying to do with ASF is to create a different type of stock forum, because I know there are a lot of people who tired of all the ramping on other forums. Incidentally I'm not calling you a ramper (even though you have  ) as I know you are capable of better.

Lets all try and maintain the higher standards here just because I'm sure we all want to be able to go to a stock forum where we don't have to put up with posts like this:



> This stok will be $12 by next week!!!! Someone in the know gave me the good oil!!! The train is leaving the station!!! Get on now or miss out!! Toot Toot!!!!!!"




This forum was orginally a exercise in community building. If I'd been more interested in gardening than the stockmarket someone would now be browsing www.aussiegardeningforums.com. That's why it has the friendly feel of a stockmarket club, not a kindergarten playground like many other forums. I never thought it would be a business. Now it is, so I want to create a stock forum with a difference. It's not easy but the mods and I do our best. There is very little problem with personal attacks here (it does happen but its managable). The biggest problem is with ramping and it's the problem that the mods and I need the most help in combatting! I am confident that most ASF members want to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem!


----------



## Snakey

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Snakey, I'm not trying to pick on anyone I'm just trying to maintain some standards. There is no corporate money behind this forum. I'm an ordinary bloke living in an ordinary house on Brisbane's southside. I drive a $4000 Commodore and tonight I am drinking a cleanskin $4 Merlot I ordered by the dozen off the internet. The fact that this forum is even as big as it is (I believe its the third or fourth busiest in the country) is a miracle. I'm not a businessman, I'm just an interested amateur like many others. What I'm trying to do with ASF is to create a different type of stock forum, because I know there are a lot of people who tired of all the ramping on other forums. Incidentally I'm not calling you a ramper (even though you have  ) as I know you are capable of better.
> 
> Lets all try and maintain the higher standards here just because I'm sure we all want to be able to go to a stock forum where we don't have to put up with posts like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This forum was orginally a exercise in community building. If I'd been more interested in gardening than the stockmarket someone would now be browsing www.aussiegardeningforums.com. That's why it has the friendly feel of a stockmarket club, not a kindergarten playground like many other forums. I never thought it would be a business. Now it is, so I want to create a stock forum with a difference. It's not easy but the mods and I do our best. There is very little problem with personal attacks here (it does happen but its managable). The biggest problem is with ramping and it's the problem that the mods and I need the most help in combatting! I am confident that most ASF members want to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem!




Ive looked at hot copper and all that forum does is confuse me (Baffle me with bullsh*t) This forum is quality and I want that to continue. I would just like to see a bit of flexability towards opinions. I think the ramping example you gave was ramping in its true form... this is the type of thing we dont need but I think a post of a stock code alone can not be concidered a ramp.
freedom of speech is a good thing but there is a time and a place for everything. Just looking for a little understanding. ASF is a great site joe
and I congratulate you on it.

Keep up the good work and maybe we can have a beer one day


----------



## Joe Blow

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Snakey said:
			
		

> Keep up the good work and maybe we can have a beer one day




As long as its not a XXXX I'm down.


----------



## doctorj

XXXX was invented by an english fella - it never really had a chance.  Try just about any brew from the good folks at Matilda Bay for a good drop.

I'll buy you one next time you're in Perth.  You can find me at the Lucky Shag


----------



## Porper

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Snakey said:
			
		

> I think a post of a stock code alone can not be concidered a ramp.




I am sure most members on ASF would consider a post of a stock code only is l00% ramping.Also, if ASF allows people to just post "feelings" that a stock can move up, we will be inundated with rampers.

Let's face it some members are just trying to find a way to ramp and pacify Joe.

Stick to your guns Joe you and the mods are doing a good job.


----------



## drmb

I really support "The feedback I have gotten is that people like that there is more signal and less noise here than on many other forums. I plan on doing my best to try and keep it that way."  I found HC before ASF but it is increasingly getting b. hard to find anything in the HC threads (and there are 100s posted daily) that is of value as most of them are out and out ramping (eg gunna explode Monday, bet the house, etc) or worse. The down rampers there are also extreme - eheheheh. Rather have quality than quantity!


----------



## Little1

I'm new to this site, but I had to be suspicious of someone with 2 mil shares predicting the price to double. The market yesterday bears out my suspicion. It's a pity the thread did not get pulled earlier, before I and others wasted their time.


----------



## sam76

doctorj said:
			
		

> You can find me at the Lucky Shag




That is the BEST name for a pub!

if only I could get one!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

Agree, Joe, ramping should be expunged, but its so obvious when its done, although it does clog up the system .  Garpal


----------



## Bobby

We need consistence to apply, sure there are grey areas,  some are jumped on, yet others seem to be impervious?

Blatant ramps are obvious to all, but some are worded in a clever manner to create a manifestation of reason.
Many comments are innocent regarding the above.

The challenge is to get it right.

Bob.

P.S. I applaud this site.


----------



## Snakey

*Re: WMT - Western Metals*



			
				Porper said:
			
		

> I am sure most members on ASF would consider a post of a stock code only is l00% ramping.Also, if ASF allows people to just post "feelings" that a stock can move up, we will be inundated with rampers.
> 
> Let's face it some members are just trying to find a way to ramp and pacify Joe.
> 
> Stick to your guns Joe you and the mods are doing a good job.




How???
A stock code is a stock code ....Maybe a down ramp?
If all I want to do is ramp I would not bother with this forum. Did you read the thread we were discussing porper???


----------



## Snakey

Little1 said:
			
		

> I'm new to this site, but I had to be suspicious of someone with 2 mil shares predicting the price to double. The market yesterday bears out my suspicion. It's a pity the thread did not get pulled earlier, before I and others wasted their time.



Which thread are you talking about little1????


----------



## Wysiwyg

Bobby said:
			
		

> We need consistence to apply, sure there are grey areas,  some are jumped on, yet others seem to be impervious?
> 
> Blatant ramps are obvious to all, but some are worded in a clever manner to create a manifestation of reason.
> Many comments are innocent regarding the above.
> 
> The challenge is to get it right.
> 
> Bob.
> 
> P.S. I applaud this site.




What you are saying is to ramp with justification. That is what makes the reader contemplate the post and think...Hmmmm maybe there is a bit of truth in their comment.  We all do it... creating interest in the stock we hold or are going to. Definately make your ramps more interesting and informative please folks.


----------



## Bobby

Wysiwyg said:
			
		

> What you are saying is to ramp with justification. That is what makes the reader contemplate the post and think...Hmmmm maybe there is a bit of truth in their comment.  We all do it... creating interest in the stock we hold or are going to. Definately make your ramps more interesting and informative please folks.




Wysiwyg,

What I,m saying is tell the truth about your thoughts !   

Bob.


----------



## Snakey

Bobby said:
			
		

> Wysiwyg,
> 
> What I,m saying is tell the truth about your thoughts !
> 
> Bob.



Not allowed
People are not allowed to say this stock will go up next week even if they are 100% sure and they have put their life savings on it.
Understandable I guess


----------



## Bobby

Snakey said:
			
		

> Not allowed
> People are not allowed to say this stock will go up next week even if they are 100% sure and they have put their life savings on it.
> Understandable I guess




Yes Snakey, thats how it is. 

liked your NZ jokes


----------



## Joe Blow

Snakey said:
			
		

> People are not allowed to say this stock will go up next week even if they are 100% sure and they have put their life savings on it.




Snakey, how can anyone be 100% sure that a stock will go up next week?


----------



## Snakey

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Snakey, how can anyone be 100% sure that a stock will go up next week?



Good question Joe
But I was 100% sure that wmt was going to break 10 Cents So I did put my life savings on it $100K And I was right... How did I know ...Well I just did.
My gut knew...My head knew And I listened to both And put my money where my thoughts were...As you know it paid off.


----------



## Bobby

Snakey said:
			
		

> Good question Joe
> But I was 100% sure that wmt was going to break 10 Cents So I did put my life savings on it $100K And I was right... How did I know ...Well I just did.
> My gut knew...My head knew And I listened to both And put my money where my thoughts were...As you know it paid off.



 SHezze Snakey ~ well done mate, But you missed Joes point !

Bob.


----------



## Snakey

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yes Snakey, thats how it is.
> 
> liked your NZ jokes




Thanks bobby good luck with you trading. Baaahhh Shut ep rosie and tick ut loike a ewe


----------



## Snakey

Bobby said:
			
		

> SHezze Snakey ~ well done mate, But you missed Joes point !
> 
> Bob.



Well I guess the only thing you can be 100% sure off on the stock market is that you cant be 100% sure of anything. But I knew it was going to happen  
see wmt posts prior to break of 10cents


----------



## Joe Blow

Snakey said:
			
		

> Good question Joe
> But I was 100% sure that wmt was going to break 10 Cents So I did put my life savings on it $100K And I was right... How did I know ...Well I just did.
> My gut knew...My head knew And I listened to both And put my money where my thoughts were...As you know it paid off.




Snakey, I don't think anyone can really be 100% sure that a stock will go up next week. I think people are capable of convincing themselves of anything, especially if they have their life savings invested in a stock.    I suspect much of it is simply wishful thinking. Nothing wrong with that. I want my stocks to go up too but a hunch, tea leaves, or a crystal ball are not enough. 

I get dozens of spam emails a day telling me some stock in the US is going up. Does that mean I should put my life savings on it? Of course not. If you are 100% convinced that a stock is going to go up next week then tell everyone the reasons why. If you are 100% convinced then there must be reasons why. That is all I have ever asked anyone to do. If you are bullish (or bearish) on a stock, tell us why. I don't care if it's fundamental or technical analysis, I just want to see some kind of analysis. Give everyone else something to research and respond to, something to generate some kind of useful discussion. That is all I have ever asked for and I don't think its too much to ask.

There are plenty of forums for rampers. I don't want this one to become one of them and I suspect most ASF members don't want this forum to go that way as well.


----------



## chops_a_must

I think you are going to have to allow ramps here Joe, otherwise you'll get all those disabled people suing.


----------



## Bobby

Snakey said:
			
		

> Well I guess the only thing you can be 100% sure off on the stock market is that you cant be 100% sure of anything. But I knew it was going to happen
> see wmt posts prior to break of 10cents



Snakey,

I like your posts, but Joe can Kill us anytime we piss him off enough!
Take this onboard.

Bob.


----------



## Joe Blow

chops_a_must said:
			
		

> I think you are going to have to allow ramps here Joe, otherwise you'll get all those disabled people suing.




ASF is a wheelchair friendly website.


----------



## laurie

Snakey said:
			
		

> Well I guess the only thing you can be 100% sure off on the stock market is that you cant be 100% sure of anything. But I knew it was going to happen
> see wmt posts prior to break of 10cents




Snakey
I took your attitude a while back and Joe knows that, it was hard for me to change my style while biting my tongue at times everything I said about XYZ turned out to be correct and made heaps of $$$$$ for me using as you said my gut feeling then I said its Joe's site and he is entitled to set conditions to use this site as I am when people enter my house e.g. no smoking ect there will be times I may slip up   but I'm sure Joe will get to know most posters and give a friendly nudge   

cheers laurie


----------



## Joe Blow

Bobby said:
			
		

> Snakey,
> 
> I like your posts, but Joe can Kill us anytime we piss him off enough!
> Take this onboard.
> 
> Bob.




Hi Bob,

Although it is tempting sometimes I resist the temptation to ban arbitrarily. If anything I think I am a bit too soft. I always try to put myself in someone else's position and see things from their point of view. Sometimes it takes me far too long time to hit the ban button. It is always a last resort for me.


----------



## Puter Geek now

ramping can be blatant or disguised as information, unfortunatley newcomers will be affected as they do not know how to do their own research, but it is good that thsi site is attempting to address the issue.


----------



## RichKid

Puter Geek now said:


> ramping can be blatant or disguised as information, unfortunatley newcomers will be affected as they do not know how to do their own research, but it is good that thsi site is attempting to address the issue.




It's important that newcomers familiarize themselves with ASF's code of conduct and posting guidelines. Having this Admin and anncts forum at the top of the page does help. It's often the deliberate miscreants whom we target and have trouble with. Innocents are often given adequate leeway.

Eitherway, thank you for your input Puter we always try not to affect genuine posters adversely.


----------



## prawn_86

Hi All,

Just thought i would bump this thread again for all to read, especially the new members.

Its quite funny, for a mods perspective, when things are going well the ramps start. When the market is poor, all the low content posters go back into their caves.

But anyway, a lot of low content posts have been coming up lately, especially with the recent CSG stocks boom/bubble. And from my perspective, it seems to be members with less than 50 posts (ie new members)


*IF YOUR POSTS DO NOT ADD VALUE TO THE THREAD THEY WILL BE REMOVED*


Please understand that these rules are in place to make sure ASF is an intellectual and educated community, rather than just meaningless one line posts.

Plus sticking to these rules makes it easier for all us mods who volunteer our time.

Any questions on the policy can be directed here provided they are of a general nature. User specific details can be answered via PM.

Regards

Prawn


----------



## Joe Blow

prawn_86 said:


> *IF YOUR POSTS DO NOT ADD VALUE TO THE THREAD THEY WILL BE REMOVED*




I am bumping this back to the top just to reiterate what Prawn has said.

Threads on particular stocks are intended for relevant information, news and analysis on a particular stock. It is expected that any new post in a stock thread will add some value to it. So please, think before you post.

Posts in stock threads that are assessed as containing no or very low content, or are simply ramps, will be removed without notice.


----------



## acouch

good morning,
i seem to be having trouble uploading spi chart this morning..
this is what comes up when loaded..

spiml429.png:
Upload of file failed.

not being computer savvy..a bit lost  
ac


----------



## professor_frink

acouch said:


> good morning,
> i seem to be having trouble uploading spi chart this morning..
> this is what comes up when loaded..
> 
> spiml429.png:
> Upload of file failed.
> 
> not being computer savvy..a bit lost
> ac




not quite sure what the problem is at this stage ac, but it's happening to me too

We'll let you know when everything is working again


----------



## acouch

thanks prof frink 
glad i am not alone..
will post the chart after 6..if it is working
but i have posted the nos.
have a great day
ac


----------



## Timmy

acouch .... uploading files should be fine now


----------



## prawn_86

prawn_86 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just thought i would bump this thread again for all to read, especially the new members.
> 
> Its quite funny, for a mods perspective, when things are going well the ramps start. When the market is poor, all the low content posters go back into their caves.
> 
> But anyway, a lot of low content posts have been coming up lately, especially with the recent CSG stocks boom/bubble. And from my perspective, it seems to be members with less than 50 posts (ie new members)
> 
> 
> *IF YOUR POSTS DO NOT ADD VALUE TO THE THREAD THEY WILL BE REMOVED*
> 
> 
> Please understand that these rules are in place to make sure ASF is an intellectual and educated community, rather than just meaningless one line posts.
> 
> Plus sticking to these rules makes it easier for all us mods who volunteer our time.
> 
> Any questions on the policy can be directed here provided they are of a general nature. User specific details can be answered via PM.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Prawn





I'll say it again:

*IF YOUR POSTS DO NOT ADD VALUE TO THE THREAD THEY WILL BE REMOVED*


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## shaunQ

prawn_86 said:


> I'll say it again:
> 
> *IF YOUR POSTS DO NOT ADD VALUE TO THE THREAD THEY WILL BE REMOVED*




A couple of days a go I posted a comment on MQG, something like, Looks like its constantly up today............ You removed my post. Interestingly, no one had posted on that thread that day. After my post, someone replied, then a flutter of posts afterwards.

So you either removed my post because of the dots and my outrageous attempt to circumvent the length limitation, or because of it not "adding value". Which was clearly not the case due to it re-igniting a thread.

If you had a problem with it, why not PM me and explain what the problem was?


----------



## drsmith

shaunQ said:


> So you either removed my post because of the dots and my outrageous attempt to circumvent the length limitation.....



I've once had a post removed an received a warning message for doing the above.

As a suggestion a lower number of characters (perhaps 50?) may be better for the length limitation. 100 characters are not always required to make a valid point.


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## bigdog

shaunQ said:


> A couple of days a go I posted a comment on MQG, something like, Looks like its constantly up today............ You removed my post. Interestingly, no one had posted on that thread that day. After my post, someone replied, then a flutter of posts afterwards.
> 
> So you either removed my post because of the dots and my outrageous attempt to circumvent the length limitation, or because of it not "adding value". Which was clearly not the case due to it re-igniting a thread.
> 
> If you had a problem with it, why not PM me and explain what the problem was?




I agree fully with your statement that you made today as the best way to handle potential issues!!!

*"If you had a problem with it, why not PM me and explain what the problem was?"*

The level of postings is dropping off at ASF by the day with little to read at times; I am getting concerned!!

I have seen postings of less than 100; I've pasted into MS word to count the characters; hey whats going on here!!! Rules for most!!


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## shaunQ

drsmith said:


> I've once had a post removed an received a warning message for doing the above.
> 
> As a suggestion a lower number of characters (perhaps 50?) may be better for the length limitation. 100 characters are not always required to make a valid point.




yeah I thought It was probably that, so I guess that means I need to come up with some corny signature to post each time.

Whats the limit.... 4 there........ 8 there. I might be pushing the boundaries.


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## shaunQ

bigdog said:


> The level of postings is dropping off at ASF by the day with little to read at times; I am getting concerned!!




I had sort of noticed it has seemed a bit quiet, but I've been a bit busy so haven't been on much myself. Perhaps everyone has finally run out of money.



bigdog said:


> I have seen postings of less than 100; I've pasted into MS word to count the characters; hey whats going on here!!! Rules for most!!




It does seem like its only on sometimes, or for some people. Its not like they need to actually encourage people to write their long-winded opinions, myself included.


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## spooly74

100 characters is only required for stock threads. It's not a lot.


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## shaunQ

spooly74 said:


> 100 characters is only required for stock threads. It's not a lot.




Ah - ok. Didn't know that. That would explain it. No its not a lot, but sometimes you might want to say something like you just said which is 60 odd characters.

Well thats fine if thats the rules but IMO deleting posts is aggressive when people are genuinely unaware of the rules and otherwise trying to contribute and unproductive if they are never informed of what they did wrong.


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## prawn_86

shaunQ said:


> Ah - ok. Didn't know that. That would explain it. No its not a lot, but sometimes you might want to say something like you just said which is 60 odd characters.
> 
> Well thats fine if thats the rules but IMO deleting posts is aggressive when people are genuinely unaware of the rules and otherwise trying to contribute and unproductive if they are never informed of what they did wrong.




Hi Shaun,

When posts are removed a PM is usually sent explaining why, however in your case it may have been overlooked. 

As Spooly said, the 100 char rule applies only to stock threads, and although it may be annoying it saves a lot of time from the mods perspective, especially in a bull market when people would post one liners etc. Essentially it just cuts back the ramping and low content posts.

100 char is not much, if you notice a stock moving and want to say it, then just jot down a couple of reasons as to why you think it moved etc.

Hope that helps, and apologies if you did not receive a PM for a deleted post.

Prawn


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## sails

prawn_86 said:


> ...
> As Spooly said, the 100 char rule applies only to stock threads, and although it may be annoying it saves a lot of time from the mods perspective, especially in a bull market when people would post one liners etc. Essentially it just cuts back the ramping and low content posts.
> 
> 100 char is not much, if you notice a stock moving and want to say it, then just jot down a couple of reasons as to why you think it moved etc....Prawn




I can understand the rule if one is suggesting a stock is going to move somewhere.  But it is frustrating when someone asks a question that only requires a short answer.  Eg. a few weeks ago someone asked when a stock report was due and I noticed it had just shown up on Iress.  I answered in a few words that it was out, got frustrated as I couldn't submit it, so did a row of full stops which I thought was acceptable since I wasn't ramping or posting a view on the stock.

Could there be any leniency when the post requires no more than a simple reply to a question?


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## shaunQ

prawn_86 said:


> Hi Shaun,
> 
> When posts are removed a PM is usually sent explaining why, however in your case it may have been overlooked.
> 
> As Spooly said, the 100 char rule applies only to stock threads, and although it may be annoying it saves a lot of time from the mods perspective, especially in a bull market when people would post one liners etc. Essentially it just cuts back the ramping and low content posts.
> 
> 100 char is not much, if you notice a stock moving and want to say it, then just jot down a couple of reasons as to why you think it moved etc.
> 
> Hope that helps, and apologies if you did not receive a PM for a deleted post.
> 
> Prawn




Thanks for the explanation Prawn, no problem.


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## Sean K

sails said:


> Could there be any leniency when the post requires no more than a simple reply to a question?



Hi Sails, There normally is from my perspective. Sometimes however, Mods might not even look at the content because we're in a rush, or drunk (in my case), or whatever, and just delete them, which isn't good darts. I've sometimes even edited a post to add some extra characters so it meets the rule.


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## Joe Blow

sails said:


> I can understand the rule if one is suggesting a stock is going to move somewhere.  But it is frustrating when someone asks a question that only requires a short answer.  Eg. a few weeks ago someone asked when a stock report was due and I noticed it had just shown up on Iress.  I answered in a few words that it was out, got frustrated as I couldn't submit it, so did a row of full stops which I thought was acceptable since I wasn't ramping or posting a view on the stock.
> 
> Could there be any leniency when the post requires no more than a simple reply to a question?




Hi Margaret,

The 100 characer minimum post length in stock threads was introduced as a response to short, low content, ramping (or downramping) posts. It was introduced after a lot of discussion about ways to combat this, given that we only had so many moderators and could only review so many posts. It became obvious that an automated process would probably be the most effective and 100 characters (approximately one line of text) was judged to be an appropriate minimum.

I understand that sometimes you only have one question to ask and that may not take up 100 characters. What I would ask people to do is just elaborate a little further to take it past 100 characters. Why is the question important? Why are you asking it? Is there another related question you can ask? How about a brief comment about the trading in the company that day? One line of text isn't much and it gets filled up pretty quickly. I think it is much more valuable to fill it with some more content rather than a series of full stops. 

I hope everyone understands why this rule is in place and that it's not an attempt to punish anyone or to make life difficult. We're just trying to maintain a minimum level of content in stock threads and have found this method to be remarkably successful. We would really appreciate the support of ASF's members by doing everything they can to contribute at least 100 characters in stock threads and help maintain this minimum level of content. I think we can all agree that the more content in these threads the better... however, having said that, if you've made it to 97 characters feel free to add a few full stops.


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## Beenjammin

How about a thread specifically for ramping, so we can keep all the BS tucked away - does anyone seriously follow these anymore? I thought everyone realised by now hot stock tips on bulletin boards fall into the same category as those Nigerian Bank spam mails - "Help me sir my dead husband has $30M US in a bank account in Abuja I cannot get to and will give you half if you help me...."

If anyone throws their hard earned at a "hot tip" they don't deserve to hold onto it in the first place. Ive heard that many anecdotes in support of the idea that the best thing you can do with a hot tip if you really can't control your gambling demon is take a small position in the opposite direction to which it is being pumped. (Thats my hot tip for ya, DYOR).


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## nomore4s

Beenjammin said:


> How about a thread specifically for ramping, so we can keep all the BS tucked away




Why would ASF do that?

What would the purpose of that thread be and what value would it add to this site? None whatsoever. If you want ramping go to another forum.

Why keep the BS tucked away? Easier to ban it and/or delete it imo.


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## sails

Joe Blow said:


> Hi Margaret,
> 
> The 100 characer minimum post length in stock threads was introduced as a response to short, low content, ramping (or downramping) posts. It was introduced after a lot of discussion about ways to combat this, given that we only had so many moderators and could only review so many posts. It became obvious that an automated process would probably be the most effective and 100 characters (approximately one line of text) was judged to be an appropriate minimum.
> 
> I understand that sometimes you only have one question to ask and that may not take up 100 characters. What I would ask people to do is just elaborate a little further to take it past 100 characters. Why is the question important? Why are you asking it? Is there another related question you can ask? How about a brief comment about the trading in the company that day? One line of text isn't much and it gets filled up pretty quickly. I think it is much more valuable to fill it with some more content rather than a series of full stops.
> 
> I hope everyone understands why this rule is in place and that it's not an attempt to punish anyone or to make life difficult. We're just trying to maintain a minimum level of content in stock threads and have found this method to be remarkably successful. We would really appreciate the support of ASF's members by doing everything they can to contribute at least 100 characters in stock threads and help maintain this minimum level of content. I think we can all agree that the more content in these threads the better... however, having said that, if you've made it to 97 characters feel free to add a few full stops.




Thanks for the reply, Joe.  I really do understand why the rule is there and that it would require extra work load for the mods to vet every short post in the stock threads.  I don't like ramping either and appreciate the efforts to control it at ASF.

I rarely post in the stock threads so I am a bit prone to being caught out on the spur of the moment. As I felt I had nothing else meaningful to say about the stock at short notice, I decided to be honest about it and tried to fill up the space in other ways. 

Anyway, thought it was worth asking the question as I'm sure there could be many others who might feel the same way, especially when one is simply replying to someone else's question and not just posting a previously thought out entry.   However, accept that the policy stands and will be more careful in future. 



kennas said:


> Hi Sails, There normally is from my perspective. Sometimes however, Mods might not even look at the content because we're in a rush, or drunk (in my case), or whatever, and just delete them, which isn't good darts. I've sometimes even edited a post to add some extra characters so it meets the rule.




Yes, I did appreciate your leniency when I got into strife the first time on the BHP thread. 

 I thought it was OK the way I did it the next time, but Wayne kindly fixed up my post and sent me a PM to let me know it was at risk of being deleted with the way I had handled the 100 character rule.


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## Beenjammin

nomore4s said:


> Why would ASF do that?
> 
> What would the purpose of that thread be and what value would it add to this site? None whatsoever. If you want ramping go to another forum.
> 
> Why keep the BS tucked away? Easier to ban it and/or delete it imo.




Erm.....sorry for any confusion, it was tounge-in-cheek, if you read my post in full youll see Im no fan of the practice either.


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## Shrewd Crude

tough rules don't always come across as a friendly, community based forums...
when I first came here I thought ise being picked on...
quietly being told to move along...
It got quite silly in the end I felt that I didnt want to post here...
An oil company had a well coming up called 'catapult'...
I mentioned the word catapult, and got taken to the cleaners...
its not good, and not welcoming...

I mean...
Im only interested in stocks that are going up...
stocks either go up or down... they never stay the same...
so you have to be bullish or bearish on a stock...
are we being told to be fence sitters?

It not so bad online here in New Zealand.... 
dont really get the ramping and all that,
but surely there must be another solution...

I agree with one of the other posters...
I made a post on an old thread which got the thread going again with some interest...
maybe im being told not to bother...

Mods here seem very firm, but fair under the guidelines...
this is the most strictest on line share forum...

.^sc


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## shaunQ

Shrewd Crude said:


> It got quite silly in the end I felt that I didnt want to post here...




I felt the same, there are a few really nice people that have kept me in it so far and the sad thing is I've actually found myself acting in the same arrogant way to try and compete. I think at the end of the day the attitude comes with the investment demographic.


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## Shrewd Crude

shaun, 
its a tough predicament to be in...
I want to post here so I can bounce ideas off other posters,
to get feedback,
to get healthy debate..
for others to tell me where im wrong...
to find information... I want to hear facts, want to hear rumors that people have heard, this is what makes up the Sharemarket....
I want to win the ASF yearly picking comp...
I want to stand by the best stock pick ive ever seen in any market...
I want to feel like I can post without being taunted with infraction notices...
I dont want to be limited by how long my post is...

it is these pointers as to why im here...
we are consumers of this forum...

Sometimes I hear information where I cant post my source, but im generally well informed to be able to help others....
making money, or not losing money for others is quite possibly the most exciting thing I can do...

its such a shame that some ruin this for the rest of us...
I dont want others to feel put out from what Ive said....
the mods need us and we need the mods...
as only half of the equation is meet, I really have no need to continue posting on this forumn....
I will check my PM box every now and then, I will make a post every so often on my favourite stock thread...
I will keep up my end of the bargain through these hard times, and stand by my pick...
as far as that, that is as far as my ASF membership will take me until my stock sees fruition...
if sharemarket communication is so restricted that posting cant be done, or received properly then I have no need to post...
thank you....

.^sc


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## Garpal Gumnut

ASF has considerably less ramping than other forums and generally apart from the occasional battle of egos is devoid of bs.

Ramping will always occur.

The unwell, foolish or over optimistic and ignorant will take the bait.

Overall ASF would have less ramping by far.

By the way, did you hear that a well known identity in Rose Bay has formed a partnership with a former media tycoon to develop a significant guano deposit on The Strand in Townsville, as our seagulls are better fed than anywhere else on the Eastern seaboard.

You heard it here first.

gg


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## dhukka

shaunQ said:


> A couple of days a go I posted a comment on MQG, something like, *Looks like its constantly up today*............ You removed my post. Interestingly, no one had posted on that thread that day. After my post, someone replied, then a flutter of posts afterwards.
> 
> So you either removed my post because of the dots and my outrageous attempt to circumvent the length limitation, or because of it not "adding value". Which was clearly not the case due to it re-igniting a thread.
> 
> If you had a problem with it, why not PM me and explain what the problem was?




If you cannot work out what the problem is with a comment like that highlighted above, then I'm not sure a pm is going to help. A stock went up all day, what a fascinating insight, even if there were not a 100 character limit this should be removed anyway because it is a complete waste of space. 

I feel sorry for the moderator that had to read this and then remove it, that is about 10 seconds of their life they can never get back.


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## Shrewd Crude

> By the way, did you hear that a well known identity in Rose Bay has formed a partnership with a former media tycoon to develop a significant guano deposit on The Strand in Townsville, as our seagulls are better fed than anywhere else on the Eastern seaboard.




and your source is?

.^sc


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## Garpal Gumnut

Shrewd Crude said:


> and your source is?
> 
> .^sc




A neighbour who keeps cats channelled Rene.

gg


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## shaunQ

dhukka said:


> If you cannot work out what the problem is with a comment like that highlighted above, then I'm not sure a pm is going to help. A stock went up all day, what a fascinating insight, even if there were not a 100 character limit this should be removed anyway because it is a complete waste of space.
> 
> I feel sorry for the moderator that had to read this and then remove it, that is about 10 seconds of their life they can never get back.




LOL - thanks for your lastest post and insight that can be added to your 1214 other gems. I think you proved my latter attitude point though.

I'm sure when someone comes up to you and says, gee - hot day today, just to maybe start a conversation - you get right up them about their fascinating insight into the weather.


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## nomore4s

shaunQ said:


> LOL - thanks for your lastest post and insight that can be added to your 1214 other gems. I think you proved my latter attitude point though.
> 
> I'm sure when someone comes up to you and says, gee - hot day today, just to maybe start a conversation - you get right up them about their fascinating insight into the weather.




It seems to me both yourself & SC want the best of both worlds.

Quality info on stocks but you want to be able to post worthless posts yourself.
If it's too difficult for you to get 100 characters to meet the requirement don't post - simple. It's not that hard to get the required characters.

I have to agree with Dhukka, totally worthless post that adds no value to the thread whatsoever.

The reason I like this forum so much is because there is such a strong stance on ramping and quality in the threads. Filling the threads up with posts like "moving up today" or "getting smashed today" without any other sort of analysis or reasoning wastes everyones time imo.


----------



## Shrewd Crude

nomore4's,
Im a little offended by what your saying, grouping particular posters into one category...... one size fits all...
...
I suggest you go back and read my posts.....
later

.^sc


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## Mad Mel

As a new investor and forum reader, I have to say that your policy works really well, Joe.  I don't want to read unsubstantiated, wide-eyed crazed lunacy, nor do I expect anyone to do my research for me.  But it sure is nice to find a place where you can get some good ideas about things to research or factors you should consider from experienced people who are helpful.  

There's a ton of great insight to be found when you read through old posts, and I really appreciate that you don't have to wade through tons of _"OMG!!! It's gonna go through the roof!!!111"_ to get at it.


----------



## nomore4s

Shrewd Crude said:


> nomore4's,
> Im a little offended by what your saying, grouping particular posters into one category...... one size fits all...
> ...
> I suggest you go back and read my posts.....
> later
> 
> .^sc




I didn't mean to offend SC.


----------



## shaunQ

Mad Mel said:


> There's a ton of great insight to be found when you read through old posts, and I really appreciate that you don't have to wade through tons of _"OMG!!! It's gonna go through the roof!!!111"_ to get at it.





Well done MM - The point was about attitude, but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your posts. Out of 14 posts, heres two with brilliant insight.



> I picked up some shares over the last few days, averaging out at 5.2 cents after the largest chunk today at 4.3 cents. I dunno, I've got a really good feeling that these guys may be a great thing yet. I don't mind waiting a few years for it.






> _In trading halt now... I'm a complete noob, but have been playing with CSG stocks for the last month or so. The wrong ones, apparently... On further reading, it's for a proposed capital raising. _




What a waste of time. And you go around buying stocks because of posts?? Real smart.


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## prawn_86

*Puts mod hat on*

This thread is seeming to get away from its aim, which is to discuss the overall ASF ramping policy. Please keep on topic and avooid from implicating others.

Thanks

Prawn


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## Mad Mel

shaunQ said:


> Well done MM - The point was about attitude, but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your posts. Out of 14 posts, heres two with brilliant insight.
> 
> What a waste of time. And you go around buying stocks because of posts?? Real smart.




I agree, those two examples that I posted were a waste of space, and I won't be making posts of that type any more. 

With respect to your second point, no, I invest based on research.  This forum is an excellent resource for helping to direct that research.  The way it is run helps keep it that way.

My post wasn't in response to your post (or anything directly related to it), just a general observation about how the ramping policy here does seem to maintain a forum that is generally very useful.


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## insider

Is it ok to ramp about my car's performance on a qtr mile?


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## Garpal Gumnut

insider said:


> Is it ok to ramp about my car's performance on a qtr mile?




not if its a ford.

gg


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## noirua

The opposite to ramping mostly though they switch horses on the turn.  This letter of apology I noticed does show how far it can go on some websites that fail to moderate posts:  http://genesavinrevealsall.squarespace.com/?ssscrollposition=0


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## Joe Blow

Joe Blow said:


> If you state that a stock's share price is going to go up or down you *MUST* provide reasoning for your point of view. Posts that fail to provide any reasoning will be deleted without notice by myself or one of ASF's moderators. I understand that some will see this as 'heavy handed' moderation but the only alternative to this is to see standards of posting here drop to an unacceptable level and I am not willing to stand by and watch this happen.
> 
> Posts that refer to some unidentified individual (a friend, a colleague or an insider) who has told you that a stock is about to move in one direction or another will be treated the same way and removed ASAP.
> 
> Every statement you make must be able to be substantiated. For example it is not permissable to state that 'drilling results are about to be released and they will be positive' unless this statement is able to be substantiated. Posts that contain unsubstantiated statements will be removed without notice.
> 
> Stocks are not to be recommended to others as a definite "buy" or "sell". As most of you are aware only licensed financial advisors can provide financial advice and recommending stocks to others as a "buy" or "sell" is inappropriate in a forum such as this. There are many other more appropriate terms that can be used to describe your view of a company's worth in relation to its share price such as "undervalued" and "overvalued", just to name a couple.
> 
> All posts in a stock thread must contain some meaningful content. Bumping a stock thread by posting a smilie, a single word or an unrelated comment is not permitted and these posts will be removed without notice.
> 
> Posting a series of posts that contain nothing more than a running commentary on a stock's intraday price action is discouraged as a single post is enough to alert others to a stock that seeing a significant move in one direction or another.
> 
> The creation of threads asking others to recommend their 'hot stocks' or 'hot stock tips' is discouraged and these threads will be closed or deleted as they are primarily used for ramping.




I thought it might be useful to remind everyone about what is expected of those posting in stock specific threads. ASF gets new users registering every day, some of whom arrive from other forums where standards of posting are different which can create some confusion about what is and what isn't acceptable. Many others arrive from search engines or other web links and may have no experience at all of posting on a stock market forum such as ASF.

The quoted post above outlines fairly clearly what can and what cannot be posted in stock threads and I urge everyone to review it carefully. These rules are intended to keep the standard of posting and the quality of discussion high. Please take them on board and keep them in mind when posting in stock threads.

If anyone has any questions regarding the above rules, please ask them in this thread.


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## nysefloortrader

shaunQ said:


> I felt the same, there are a few really nice people that have kept me in it so far and the sad thing is I've actually found myself acting in the same arrogant way to try and compete. I think at the end of the day the attitude comes with the investment demographic.




I actually think this forum and community is pretty awesome no doubt. But I guess to conform to the rules in here is even better and proves you are not an arrogant turd and do really want to help people. That I think is cool, and I think everyone deserves a second chance.


----------

