# The PRE-PLANNED Financial/Economic 911 of 2008



## Kimosabi (9 October 2008)

OK Debt Slaves, it time for you all to work out what's REALLY going on.  I encourage everyone to watch all of the video's at the end of this article, and to go and do your own research...

*The PRE-PLANNED Financial/Economic 911 of 2008*

WHAT: A pre-planned collapse of the US (and global) financial and economic systems.

WHO: The same characters who perpetrated the original 911.

WHERE: New York City & DC, of course. Plus a sideshow in Washington state.

WHEN: The days surrounding September 11, naturally.

HOW: Instead of painted drones, missiles with wings & big fins, and fake airplanes, they used the much more stealth short seller.

WHY: To remake the economic/financial order of the world into a “PPP” (Permanent Planetary Plantation).

WHY Really: Think about it ! And then ask yourself, “Cui bono?”

The 911 blueprint worked so magically for the world controllers that they were
compelled to use virtually the same playbook. “If it ain’t broke, why fix it?
So, what’s the real deal here?

By analogy, let’s take a quick look at the 911 timeline and stack it up against the new 2008 Financial “911”, as it began to unfold earlier this year.

1. The Bear Stearns collapse that began in March 2008 is analogous to the 1st World Trade Center bombing in 1993. Just a warm up. This was preceded by a little failure back in January featuring Countrywide – the largest US mortgage lender.

2. The nationalization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac marks the beginning of the new 911. Both in the DC area, they were the first to come down this time. Just as they struck at the heart of the military complex, this time they went for the jugular of the national real estate market. Remember – this is a financial 911.

3. Next came this year’s version of the twin towers, building 7 and other assorted NYC landmarks in the form of Lehman Brothers, AIG, Merrill Lynch, as well as Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs in their “new & improved” form. It basically took out the whole of American investment brokerage.

4. And, of course, we still have Washington Mutual out there in the boonies just like the one that “crashed” in a PA farm field. Update: WAMU is now history.

5. Their MO! What else, but controlled demolition? Throughout 2008, and
especially this month of September, we have seen some of the world’s largest
banks, brokerage houses, mortgage lenders, insurance companies and investment brokers go bust, as each of them fell perfectly into their own footprint faster than you can say: 

*CONTROLLED   DEMOLITION!!!*

6. The 700 billion dollar Bailout Plan is just like the Patriot Act, isn’t it? Only this time it’s maybe a 1 or 2 page document that confers absolute authority on the Executive Branch to do just about anything they want with the taxpayer’s money.
And they want it rubber stamped now. Not tomorrow. NOW!!! Without
discussion, or unnecessary congressional debate. Talk about Shock & Awe being used against the American people, and their elected representatives!?!

7. Now we know we can expect further gyrations, panics and precipitous declines in the market and elsewhere, just as we had anthrax attacks in the Capital, beltway snipers in Maryland in October of ’02, the 3/11/04 train bombings in Madrid, and the 7/7/05 bombings in London. Not to mention the 50+ other synthetic terror events staged throughout the world to enforce compliance and create distraction.

8. The sudden and dramatic downfall of NY Gov Eliot Spitzer can also now be seen in its proper light. Having left the reservation one too many times, he simply could not be trusted to go with the flow. He had their numbers, their signatures (especially their MO’s), their addresses --- the whole ball of wax, as well as his own reputation to burnish. Eliot, to seal his fate, wrote a masterful expose on the subprime mortgage fiasco/fraud that was published in the WashPo just weeks before his public humiliation. He had recently testified before Congress as well.
The elimination of John O’Neil, Head of Security at the WTC, is quite similar,
except that John O. – a great patriot – died on 911, having just been given the job.

9. To date, the most obvious and glaring example of this manipulated takedown is the case of a NY Senator. His letter to the FDIC contained confidential information that triggered the IndyMac bank collapse in July. California AG Jerry Brown was called to review the entire affair after the OTS Director explicitly blamed the letter for causing a run on the bank (3rd largest bank failure in US history). This episode is eerily reminiscent of Larry Silverstein’s order to, “Pull it.” just prior to the expertly controlled demolition of Building # 7 on 911.

10. Just as 911 was perpetrated as a cover for: inaugurating the War on Terror, overtly advancing the NWO regime globally (in contrast to this previously covert operation), imposing a police state (Homeland Security) in the US (by gutting the US Constitution), UK and elsewhere, dominating and securing oil/gas reserves in the Middle East and Caucasus (to include running energy pipelines through Afghanistan and stealing Iraq’s oil wealth via military invasion), jump starting the Afghan opium trade, etc., the ECO/FIN 911 of ’08 is a cover for many of these same agenda items. However, there is one little item that is particularly high on the current agenda. And that concerns the derivatives market, which in its totality approximates somewhere between 750 trillion and 1 quadrillion dollars of instruments as of 2008. In fact, the sub prime mortgage defaults are just a tip of the tip of the iceberg when compared to the real megilla – DERIVATIVES. This is what they’re really worried about, and having to cover for. Except this is a quadrillion dollar megilla that can’t be covered without unraveling the entire capitalistic system, and its fascist corpocracy and kleptocratic oligarchy.

11. And then there is the teenie-weenie matter concerning the Federal Reserve, and its collection agency – the IRS. The man standing behind this curtain has a lot at stake, especially in the form of mountains of evidence that will indict, and convict, the entire system. Lots of evidence was destroyed during and after 911, as will happen after many of these Wall Street firms are taken over, nationalized, liquidated, merged and disappeared. The veil, however, has already been lifted.


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## Kimosabi (9 October 2008)

Does anyone see a pattern here?!

The real lesson to be gleaned from this analysis is that events of such enormity and consequence are rarely spontaneous and unchoreographed. Especially when they happen just weeks from an era defining presidential election. They have obviously been planning this one for a long time, and it has been fastidiously engineered to have a very definite effect and desired outcome – a permanent planetary plantation (PPP).

The execution, thus far, has been flawless. Even for those of us who stood there on the 1st 911, and knew it was a fraud while the buildings were coming down, this one is exceedingly more difficult to penetrate. However, penetrate we will, until every last conspirator is sitting before the TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION spilling the beans. The ultimate and lasting effect of these inquiries will be a New World Order of our making, not theirs. The only remaining, $64,000 question will undoubtedly be, “What do we do with them after we head them off at the pass?”

For the uninitiated, it may take quite a lot to wrap your mind around this extremely complex and convoluted plot, but, please, just be patient. As this drama plays out, the true intentions of the primary perpetrators will become manifest as they unwittingly reveal themselves by their handiwork. As Eliot 

Spitzer, no - Eliot Ness, nee – Sherlock Holmes once alluded to – a fingerprint inadvertently left as evidence is impossible to erase.

You see, the short sellers, unlike the “airplanes”, are still with us. Each one had a target to take down which they did with amazing speed and dexterity. And the myriad transactions that converged to topple their prey are all preserved somewhere, in some huge database, with multiple backups to serve as confirmation of trades of staggering amounts. AHHH! Nothing like computers, especially when they’re not confiscated and shipped off to China for permanent disposal.

May all financial wizards and economic soothsayers, henceforth, be inspired to stare into their crystal ball and divine the upcoming financial and economic events of global proportions with the keenest of acumen and sleuthing. As we shine the LIGHT of our collective awareness on these rapidly unfolding schemes, we will serve as beacons of revelation, and hope to the world.
Remember – we now know the script. We know the major players involved. We know their MO: Controlled Demolition. We are able to watch the crimes being committed in real time. Each of us has now been thusly notified, and empowered, to serve as a vector of dissemination of this critical information. 

So ----> LET’S GET BUSY ! ! !

T. Anthony Michael
9/22/08
Permission is expressly granted to copy, email, scan, attach, or forward this article.

Special Message to the Market Oracles and Money Masters of the Universe
Our “PRE-PLANNED” scenario delineated above in no way ignores the true state of the national economy, international finance or global economic picture. In fact we are, and have been, fully cognizant of the fact that the true state of every market – real estate, equity, bond, commodities, currency, derivative, etc. has been in shambles for many years, just waiting for the Perfect Storm to come around and blow it all away.

It has been obvious to many of us that each of these markets have operated according to the whim of a very few individuals with extremely concentrated power to manipulate.

Therefore, all markets can be artificially inflated, as we have seen time and time again.

Likewise, they can be artificially deflated, sometimes rather quickly for effect, as we have seen. The “Hidden Hand” of the market is just that – a very carefully hidden hand that makes a complete and total mockery of every economic and financial theory ever advanced. Time for a lot of us to accept this fact of modern economic life.

Perhaps we should now take off our blinders and admit that while, yes, all of the indicators are, and have been, there for a catastrophic economic meltdown & financial cataclysm, these events are still completely controllable. All of us have seen bubble after bubble grow and balloon, and merge and overlap, and inextricably interpenetrate each other, until all we have is one massive bubble ready to pop. But, when will it pop?! It will pop when the confidence level is sufficiently undermined by the very same MEDIA that controls the flow of the relevant information. And who, pray tell, controls the media, if not the Hidden Hand? Clearly, the real Market Oracles are not a part of that MSM juggernaut. Therefore, it is incumbent upon each oracle to get it right, since they are the very best sources of pertinent financial and economic data/information.

The inevitability of self destructive capitalism does not preclude the process of controlled destruction. As the system eats itself, there are those who are eaten, and those who eat. We are witnessing this devolution in living color, as we both write and read these words. The “strong” at the top of the pyramid have always done the eating, as the “weak” at the bottom provide the bone for the stew. The only major difference at this particular, and final, feast is that the internet has allowed for an unprecedented explosion of accurate information in real time. Therefore, the playing field has been leveled like never before. The little guy or gal, for the first time ever, has the opportunity to take back a little, or a lot, of his/her power (WEALTH), should he/she so choose.

Even as the Wall Street gangs team up with the opportunistic political class, as well as the numerous corporate/legal jackals and lobby parasites, to effectuate the most massive redistribution of wealth (aka in your face THEFT) in recorded history, something has profoundly and fundamentally changed. There is a dynamic at work which can alter the game just enough to potentially turn the pyramid upside down. This, however, requires a no nonsense, “look in the mirror with raw honesty” approach. Then we (the oracles) will not deign to render a judgment that is not fully baked. And the recommendations we make are more likely to be issued in the best interest of ALL, especially for those who are in a position of class disadvantage, financial ignorance or structured powerlessness.

So, we have made it clear that all the forces have been put into place for the upcoming monetary apocalypse. But even these forces are controlled, each and every one of them, all the way up to the top. It’s probably a very good time to contemplate just who it is that resides at the peak of the global financial decision-making process. And, their agenda ?!?

http://www.projectcamelot.org/Financial_911_2008_MO.pdf

*Video's to Watch*

Money as Debt ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Zeitgeist Addendum ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

The Creature from Jekyll Island ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6507136891691870450

FIAT Empire ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531

Money Masters ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

Zeitgeist ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

Endgame ==> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261


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## 2BAD4U (9 October 2008)

Kimosabi said:


> Does anyone see a pattern here?!




NO.:dunno:


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## Kimosabi (9 October 2008)

2BAD4U said:


> NO.:dunno:




Watch some of the video's.  The first question that needs to be asked is where does all them money come from...


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

Kimosabi

I completely agree with you.

My brother was over on the weekend and we got around to talking about this.  He works in construction and knows a lot of guys in various associated fields.  His mates in demolition point blank said the towers were imploded with tons of dynamite.

He had me look at some of the videos and you can see when the slow down exactly where the dynamite is going off.  Call Sqi..

*911 Mysteries: Part.1 - Part 7 - 8
This is the first link and you can follow the others

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RrnL1z1wY*

There were facts in the documentary that I didn't know. To reinforce that is was a demolition job.

One of G Bush's family was the security guard in charge of World Trade Centre site 1 year before the collapse.  Another friend of the Bush's bought the Trade Centre site  a year or so before the accident and @ 4 months before had all the towers insured for Terrorist Attacks only.   

Watch the videos as Kimosabi and I suggest, you will get a shock.

They interview people that footage has not been seen on the ground as it happened and soon after.  Many people report well after the planes hit explosions going off in the car parks below.   The levels below.

My brother said that to keep steel red hot days after - remember all the fires still burning) there are only 2 ways and aviation fuel as nothing to do with it.  

I don't understand all the terminology he used so watch the videos.  You will eventually see a link as to why we are at the crisis now.

Do Your Own Research. Bush is not just an idiot he is truely dangerous.  Or my own idea is maybe the Idiot face he puts on is a front so no-one would think he was capable of associating and casuing mass destruction to gain more power.

Did you also know that the USA has Australia planned as the "Exit Strategy"?


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## prawn_86 (20 October 2008)

So we know about it (which i already did).

So what? What can be done? Nothing.

Best of trying to make as comfortable living for your family as possible imo. Awareness is important, but being delusional that things might change is not IMO.


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> So we know about it (which i already did).
> 
> So what? What can be done? Nothing.
> 
> Best of trying to make as comfortable living for your family as possible imo. Awareness is important, but being delusional that things might change is not IMO.




I don't believe that many people know about the details.   

What can be done. Your answer of nothing is one way or more vigilance to who owns what, when did they change hands etc.  The amount of resources may not be that big the government should have all that..  I take it then that you believe this will never happen again?  London had the underground, it may not always be planes I’m aware of that.

If they could openly do this to the Towers - in this case history is important to learn from as are past economic disasters.  This level of organisation would not have gone unnoticed security cameras etc, it was completely orchestrated from inside, Terrorist for sure but they must of had US high level help.

What do you think the USA keep the mantra of “We’re the Greatest Nation on Earth”?

You can flip me off Prawn I'm getting used to alot of you guys doing it.  Thinking you know everything.  I take it that you don't believe in global warming?  

I have a friend in the aquaculture industry in Australia as an advisor to several companies.  I asked him last week what he though, He point blank said the change of sea temperature was having an impact on the fish.  Should the sea temperature rise or low, dependant on where the converter belt is flowing at the time certain fish will die or struggle.  Some fish obviously have a better range of environmental equilibrium to survive.  

Some companies based in Australia have fisheries outside our waters.

You stay in your comfort zone like 90 % of the popluation or can do something.


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## sam76 (20 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Did you also know that the USA has Australia planned as the "Exit Strategy"?




Can you expand on this a bit, please, Green08?


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## prawn_86 (20 October 2008)

And what is it that you propose be done?

That is my question. I am aware of things happening, (and yes i believe in Global Warming), but the fact of the matter is, there is very little (if anything meaningful/tangible) that can be done by average people like you and me, as the majority of the population do not know about these things, therefore do not care...


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## Beej (20 October 2008)

I heard that if you wrap your head in aluminum foil that "they" can't use the NSA's ultra-low frequency behaviour manipulation system (ULFBMS) to compel you to sell your shares cheap to the Uber-9s (Ie the 9 guys that actually control all the world governments etc) hedge funds short covers.....damn can't keep typing! Gotta get my alpha wave blocker on and hide under the desk, as I think I can hear a black helicopter approaching!!!!

Beej


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

sam76 said:


> Can you expand on this a bit, please, Green08?




Here is a tongue in cheek answer 
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mt0aLeVdcmA Underestimating is humans biggest flaw.
Maher could at have planted little seeds in the minds of the ignorant US people.

This had me thinking and researching.  With the amount of bases and agreements in place. It's like world domination.  They admit to going into countries to secure resoruces and as a launch pad for war.  

US Military bases
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...se-in-australia/2007/02/14/1171405295243.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5564
http://www.seal.navy.mil/seal/introduction.aspx   Past but relevant


*Lily Pads" in Australia, Romania, Mali, Algeria . *. . 

In order to put our forces close to every hot spot or danger area in this newly discovered arc of instability, the Pentagon has been proposing -- this is usually called "repositioning" -- many new bases, including at least four and perhaps as many as six permanent ones in Iraq. A number of these are already under construction -- at Baghdad International Airport, Tallil air base near Nasariyah, in the western desert near the Syrian border, and at Bashur air field in the Kurdish region of the north. (This does not count the previously mentioned Anaconda, which is currently being called an "operating base," though it may very well become permanent over time.) In addition, we plan to keep under our control the whole northern quarter of Kuwait -- 1,600 square miles out of Kuwait's 6,900 square miles -- that we now use to resupply our Iraq legions and as a place for Green Zone bureaucrats to relax. 

Other countries mentioned as sites for what Colin Powell calls our new "family of bases" include: In the impoverished areas of the "new" Europe -- Romania, Poland, and Bulgaria; in Asia -- Pakistan (where we already have four bases), India, *Australia*, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, and even, unbelievably, Vietnam; in North Africa -- Morocco, Tunisia, and especially Algeria (scene of the slaughter of some 100,00 civilians since 1992, when, to quash an election, the military took over, backed by our country and France); and in West Africa -- Senegal, Ghana, Mali, and Sierra Leone (even though it has been torn by civil war since 1991). The models for all these new installations, according to Pentagon sources, are the string of bases we have built around the Persian Gulf in the last two decades in such anti-democratic autocracies as Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.

......The military prefers bases that resemble small fundamentalist towns in the Bible Belt rather than the big population centers of the United States. For example, even though more than 100,000 women live on our overseas bases -- including women in the services, spouses, and relatives of military personnel -- obtaining an abortion at a local military hospital is prohibited. Since there are some 14,000 sexual assaults or attempted sexual assaults each year in the military, women who become pregnant overseas and want an abortion have no choice but to try the local economy, which cannot be either easy or pleasant in Baghdad or other parts of our empire these days.

How comfortable would you be with them on our soil?  
After researching and realising the the Towers implosion was happening for months right under them I would assume anything from the USA.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm


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## sam76 (20 October 2008)

Thanks.

Lucky I live in Austria.


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

> =prawn_86;351765]And what is it that you propose be done?




What is an obvious threat to the world population at the moment?  Food

What are you doing about securing food for your children's future with economic crisis, a recession that will loom for years and climatic severe weather changes?   I know and I've been doing a few things.
The first thing is to educate your children in a responsible and factual way without scaring the living daylights out of them.  i.e. be conservative in what you use, composting, look at what you have can it be used for something else? It is really good as kids can be so creative with concepts.

I mentioned on the Wall St riot thread - Sustainability is what you make of it.

Perhaps has I grew up on a farm, I have a fair understanding of basic permaculture and am under going a course in Keyline agriculture.  Whilst we have resources you should make the most of them.  If you think I'm nuts, fine.  But things can happen very quickly.   Who controls the food, do you understand what Monsanto actually do?  
http://www.newfrontier.com/asheville/bad_seed.htm     DYOR

That was another hugh Bush stuff up letting them get a patent to seed.  He's probably getting handouts like they do.

If you think after reading factual articles and known lawsuits they file on farmers of control seed, thus food think about what would happen if they decided to only give it to the USA.  Here is a list of countries they are in
http://www.monsanto.com/who_we_are/locations.asp

Doing deals with  governments?  Do the governments actually care about the people?


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## mayk (20 October 2008)

How many people will seriously believe that?  Most of this is even predicted in the imminent thread on ASF. Even some of the economist were predicting that it would happen. Where is the surprise element of 9/11?

It is not convincing enough to be a consipracy on a grand scale. It is easy to say that money masters are controlling the currency, but can you give a viable alternative? Don't tell me gold is the way to go as it cannot support growth. I don't like the fiat currency either but what are the real practical alternatives?

Almost all videos posted I have watched, yes interesting take on things but they are also propaganda machines. Don't believe everything they say or portray either.


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## Knobby22 (20 October 2008)

I agree Mayk.
If it is the choice between a giant conspiracy and just stupidity of the legislators, I would go with stupidity every time, especially with the present incumbent.

Amazes me how dumb the Americans are getting, most of them don't even believe they landed on the moon. Must be something in the water.


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## Ageo (20 October 2008)

mayk said:


> How many people will seriously believe that?  Most of this is even predicted in the imminent thread on ASF. Even some of the economist were predicting that it would happen. Where is the surprise element of 9/11?
> 
> It is not convincing enough to be a consipracy on a grand scale. It is easy to say that money masters are controlling the currency, but can you give a viable alternative? Don't tell me gold is the way to go as it cannot support growth. I don't like the fiat currency either but what are the real practical alternatives?
> 
> Almost all videos posted I have watched, yes interesting take on things but they are also propaganda machines. Don't believe everything they say or portray either.





You must agree thow that these video's are pretty accurate when it comes to explaining the central bank's are the main cause of this......


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

Watch this

9/11 Coincidences - NORAD

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=em_XyTeNA1g&feature=related

Think out side the square.

The end of the video with Bush being asked important questions he just can't answer!  Sound familiar?


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## johenmo (20 October 2008)

Consider the saying... "All good things must come to an end."

Like others, I recall a number of individuals predicting the stock market crash - I remember it being mentioned in detail a book I read 3 years ago, and that book was a couple of years old.  Forget what book it was.

These corrections/crashes/occur every now and then.

This may be the worst yet but I think it's greed more than anything.  But using short selling as a terrorism tool?  Hmmmm.  May be a good idea.


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## spooly74 (20 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Think out side the square.




Define the square please.

A real investigation moves towards a conclusion, or set of conclusions. The evidence leads you to one or a small set of probabilities.

Conspiracy theories get on their bike and take off blabbing away from the official story which is assumed bollox. Their theories (which are not even that) are built around a useless method of investigation.

Most if not all conspiracy "theories" I`ve heard don't even rise to the level of a "hypothesis". A "hypothesis" requires that there be at least some reasonable grounds for further testing. Many of the ideas we call conspiract theories are no more than wild speculation or paranoia, or both.


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

mayk said:


> Almost all videos posted I have watched, yes interesting take on things but they are also propaganda machines. Don't believe everything they say or portray either.




I know they can change things visually  yes, Adobe products Maya software etc.  Somethings you have to question or do you take everything on face value and use no critical anaylsis of your own?  The videos were a way to convey my concern.   Are you saying that you knew the Towers would fall.  There is substanial evidence in them to support the theory.  Do you understand demoltion or know anyone directly in the business who does it right?

Do you know how many of Bush's family are in power positions, the industries they lead and were that money goes - back to the family.

Mayk I wasn't posting for you, there are others out there who are not aware of this, or the most obvious one Monsanto you can predict what ever, you may be the new Nostradmus who knows?  Question is what are you going to do about it?  I said on another thread "Is what you see real even right in front of you, was is orchestrated for you to come to a  conclusion...."


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

johenmo said:


> These corrections/crashes/occur every now and then.
> 
> This may be the worst yet but I think it's greed more than anything.  But using short selling as a terrorism tool?  Hmmmm.  May be a good idea.




Soro's has predicted the market crash since 2001


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

spooly74 said:


> Conspiracy theories get on their bike and take off blabbing away from the official story which is assumed bollox. Their theories (which are not even that) are built around a useless method of investigation.
> 
> Most if not all conspiracy "theories" I`ve heard don't even rise to the level of a "hypothesis". A "hypothesis" requires that there be at least some reasonable grounds for further testing. Many of the ideas we call conspiract theories are no more than wild speculation or paranoia, or both.




So you think that these are theories
Water Shortage problems?
Food Shortage Problems?
Global Warming?
Bush is a good President and has fundamentally strengthen hs ecomony?

I will have my thoughts and you with yours.  That's what makes the world an interesting place, debate, ideas, theories, factual follow up and sometmes, years late the truth to the theory to support it.

So you discount anyone with a thought that differs from yours, assuming they are wrong and maybe even idiots?


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## spooly74 (20 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> So you think that these are theories
> Water Shortage problems?
> Food Shortage Problems?
> Global Warming?
> Bush is a good President and has fundamentally strengthen hs ecomony?



Speculation.



Green08 said:


> I will have my thoughts and you with yours.  That's what makes the world an interesting place, debate, ideas, theories, factual follow up and sometmes, years late the truth to the theory to support it.
> 
> *So you discount anyone with a thought that differs from yours, assuming they are wrong and maybe even idiots*?



Wild speculation or paranoia, or both.


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

> Speculation.
> 
> Wild speculation or paranoia, or both.



So despite scientific evidence from many sources 

How do you come to your conclusions?  Beliefs?  Truths?

Are you saying the forensic science and scientist of many backgrounds have no position in our society.  

I'm an Atheist.  Do you believe in the Bible or some other group.


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## spooly74 (20 October 2008)

Perhaps I should have been clearer.
I was responding to _your_ assumptions about what _I _believe.


Green08 said:


> So you think that these are theories.
> .....
> So you discount anyone with a thought that differs from yours ....




Water Shortage problems? Real
Food Shortage Problems? Real
Global Warming? Still in doubt about the level of CO2 forcing.
Bush is a good President and has fundamentally strengthen hs ecomony? Yeah right!


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

spooly74 said:


> Perhaps I should have been clearer.
> I was responding to _your_ assumptions about what _I _believe.
> Water Shortage problems? Real
> Food Shortage Problems? Real
> ...




No they were not my assumptions I was asking if you believed these theories

I believe in:
Water shortage
Food Shortage 
Global Warming
No- Bush is the most dangerous, incoherent, incompetent President probably in global history


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## DJZ (20 October 2008)

I agree with you Kimosabi and Green08, except about global warming (There is no such thing, Climate Change occurs and it is independent of us. We need to adapt and nothing more, we cannot control the Global Climate. It has more to do with further controlling the markets with the issuance of Carbon Credits, who gets the credits owns the markets, who doesn't perishes, just the same as central banking, more centralized control, plus the increase in industry to produce all these "Green Products".  I'm all for less pollution and living self-sufficiently, which is why I am sad that the Green movements have been hijacked by this scam)

Anyway, where were we? Thats right, people controlling our lives. Although I've been interested, well forever, in money and how economics work, I only began studying finances and economics as a hobby early last year. About 3 weeks before August, I came to the conclusion that our system was not free, its was controlled to the nth degree, through debt based fractional reserve central banking, and it was doomed for failure, then August came around, and sub-prime began, and since then nearly everything I thought would happen has. 

We elect representatives that are supposed to do as WE wish but in order for them to keep their jobs, they need to bow to the money. There is a huge history of people trying to control the financial systems of a country and it has nothing to do with government, government is there to keep the people under control these days, and its the moneymakers/moneychangers who control what happens. 

The US Government is not in control, The US Government is Controlled. 

It principally began when we first settled down and created agriculture thousands of years ago. Those with the keys(Bankers) to the Grain Silo's(Printing Press/Central Banking), had control of the Food(Money), Therefor the people. 

The current banking system started a few hundred years ago, before the Napoleonic wars, in Germany with a Man called Mayer Amschel Bauer, who change his name to Mayer Amschel ROTHSCHILD, the man who became the worlds First International banker. He was the only person allowed to trade between England and France, indeed he financed both sides of the war (Sounds Familiar?). His family married into royalty and with his system, he made them and his family very rich indeed. He established banking headquarters around the modern world, with his sons in control. Since that time they have continued to increase their power and control, they have been the main proponents behind central banking. America was a giant thorn in their side, as a fair and free economy was developing and the Bankers where not getting their share, The American Civil wars and War of Independence were as just as much about Financial control than anything else, which is why central banking was so fiercely fought by the People in General and those such as Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson, Jackson actually has "I killed the Bank" on his headstone as it was he who defeated, I think? the first Central Bank of America, and one of Jeffersons famous quotes were "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

They have continued to gain greater control, and a few families around the world now have controlling powers. These people today own big oil, control monetary policy and influence the media.

Lakemac on another thread has some great writings on how it all works and further details relating to the history of the world through the eyes of a Banker. Is much more interesting than normal History too.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7108

We do not run a free market, our voting system means nothing, and we are all truly slaves to the system, there is no escape at the moment, anything that goes against this system is treated as heresy.




prawn_86 said:


> And what is it that you propose be done?
> 
> That is my question. I am aware of things happening, (and yes i believe in Global Warming), but the fact of the matter is, there is very little (if anything meaningful/tangible) that can be done by average people like you and me, as the majority of the population do not know about these things, therefore do not care...




What needs to be done was answered in your question. The people do not know what is happening because we are conditioned into believing that what we have now is the best there has ever been. They believe in the system because they do not know otherwise.

EDUCATION is the key, if the majority of the world knew, truly knew, how things worked, what has happened, and how everything humanity has strived for, is being destroyed, there would a revolution overnight.

If only Ron Paul could have been elected Pres of the USA, then things would have truly changed and the word would have got out. Teaching Austrian economics would be a good start to.

Plus, we, the ones who know have the responsibility to educate others around us.

Remember Prawn "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."   --  Edmund Burke 

And

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
-Margaret Mead

Whatever you do, do something, if we all sit back and say, well nothing can be done about it, then we have given up and are doomed to a fate of whatever the rulers want. I believe in Freedom and would honestly rather die fighting than do something that goes against my beliefs.


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

> What needs to be done was answered in your question. The people do not know what is happening because we are conditioned into believing that what we have now is the best there has ever been. They believe in the system because they do not know otherwise.
> 
> EDUCATION is the key, if the majority of the world knew, truly knew, how things worked, what has happened, and how everything humanity has strived for, is being destroyed, there would a revolution overnight.




DJZ - Precisely what I am trying to do. I am continually amazed at the amount of information available to the public either openly or by request that people do not access. 

I am also amazed at the apathy of people who do know and do nothing!  That's right TV, Ipod's, video games, soapie mags fill people lives! Sad!

You can't convert someone with a closed mind that is why children are so important, they are the ones that have to live here.

All I can say is just like the crashing markets when the water and food shortages start to hit home to those in denial now it is every man / woman for themselves.


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## mayk (20 October 2008)

I only focus on things that are real and will have real  consequences. E.g. Peak oil is a reality, higher food prices (shortages) is a reality.

What if US FED is a neutral body, still they have to create money out of thin air, right? The money creation as a function of GDP is a nice theocratic concept, one that works and can enable growth and withstand recession/depression.I still believe that governments should look into interest free systems. Japan is almost an interest free system (.05% is not that much). Of course it has to cancel out the effect of inflation. 

On the subject of global warming, I am not sold out completely. Different species come and go, (dinosaurs anyone?), cycle of nature or life. Yes sustainable living should be encouraged, but for God's sake don't enslave the masses to carbon reduction as the only tool to combat this nonsense. I greatly agree with WayneL comments on global warming thread on this topic.


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## prawn_86 (20 October 2008)

DJZ said:


> Remember Prawn "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."   --  Edmund Burke
> 
> And
> 
> ...




Well call me selfish but i would rather have a comfortable and relatively happy life, than one dedicated to "fighting the man". I will make sure my kids know about this etc etc but i am more of the belief, "if you cant beat them join them" or at least play by their rules as best you can.

There are still plenty of opportunities in this world and i intend to make the most of them for myself.


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## Green08 (20 October 2008)

> There are still plenty of opportunities in this world and i intend to make the most of them for myself.




Yes there are many fantastic opportunities like stem cell research but we have to get over the government.  The best of innovation is yet to come but the money needed of R  & D is a part of the problem.

Climate change has been beneficial.  Some companies have come up with new efficient ideas. Others. solar power have gained favour and improved.

As for if you can't beat them join them.  It comes down to your ethics and personality, I've been a rebel most of my life, I haven't broke the law but do what I want and don't follow the crowd.  You learn more that way as you look at both sides.  I have no debt never believed in Credit Cards from the time I has legally offered one.  Always believed if you couldn't buy it with cash and negotiate a deal it wasn't worth it or I'd wait.


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## DJZ (20 October 2008)

mayk said:


> What if US FED is a neutral body, still they have to create money out of thin air, right? The money creation as a function of GDP is a nice theocratic concept, one that works and can enable growth and withstand recession/depression.I still believe that governments should look into interest free systems. Japan is almost an interest free system (.05% is not that much). Of course it has to cancel out the effect of inflation.




Firstly, Every Fiat money system in the history of the world has collapsed!

The Creation of Money out of thin Air is the Problem! Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely, the Central Bank has Absolute power over the issuance of Our money. They have a monopoly over the production of something that every single person needs. 

The bare minimum we can strive for if we are to put up with a Fiat system, is to introduce competing currencies, so that the issuers of credit, have some sort of competition to put pressure on them to maintain the value of the currency they are selling, which would prevent an over abundance of credit. 

If one currency is overinflated then people will move to another currency. Of course this causes runs on banks and can lead to people losing their money, but that is exactly what is needed, people need to understand risk instead of thinking they can go and spend as much as they want without a worry. 

It would make people risk adverse and they would actually think about the true value of things as opposed to the numerical value, and would prevent wild speculation as the price of everything will not "Always Go Up".

Fractional Reserve banking is the other evil of our system. Why should someone be allowed to create something from nothing and then charge interest on it? Its perfectly fine to charge interest or get something in return for lending of your hard earned cash, but when you have neither worked hard nor own anything to begin with, why should you be given the power to charge on something you don't have?

When is comes down to it, Money is a Tool of Trade, a Store of value, for it to work fairly that value must remain true, otherwise people are being defrauded of their hard earned efforts, because it is their labour and energy that they trade for this Unit of Value. When a entity has the power to devalue that Unit(by way of printing more money), they are stealing from every single person who has worked hard to save and get ahead. Inflation is a Tax upon people, with whoever receives the pre-inflated dollars first benefiting, and the people who receive this money first? The Financial institutions, The Central bank is a banking cartel, they defraud everyone for the benefit of there own.

A centralised debt based fiat money system is a system open to severe corruption, and that is exactly what has occurred, indeed It was designed to be this way so why would we think anything else would happen.


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## DJZ (20 October 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Well call me selfish but i would rather have a comfortable and relatively happy life, than one dedicated to "fighting the man". I will make sure my kids know about this etc etc but i am more of the belief, "if you cant beat them join them" or at least play by their rules as best you can.
> 
> There are still plenty of opportunities in this world and i intend to make the most of them for myself.




Well your educating your kids about how the world works, and the very fact that you have educated yourself about this issue is at least doing something.

Would you join the Taliban or other extremist organizations or any group that goes against your morals? If you couldn't beat them? How far to you bend your morals to exist?

This system attacks freedom, this system promotes wars and there are millions that have died at the hands of this system.

I believe freedom goes hand in hand with life, If you do not have the freedom to make decisions over you own life, then what life do you really have? If you give up your freedom, you give up your life.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

This isn't about fighting the man, this is about fighting for true freedom from an oppressive and destructive system. Its about what the entire human race has fought for in every page of time. It might sound a bit melodramatic but its true.

Also, Working within the system doesn't mean you agree with it, indeed you need to work within this system in order to survive, there is no alternative, It is that fact that I will fight against. We all don't have to believe and live within a certain religious system so why should we all be forced to live and believe in a certain financial system? Its the exact same thing, throughout history people have been oppressed by Religion, now they are oppressed by a financial system. Its all about Control, and I will never be controlled by anyone but me, I'd rather die like everyone else before me who has died fighting for freedom.


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## prawn_86 (20 October 2008)

DJZ said:


> How far to you bend your morals to exist?




What morals... :


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## Ageo (20 October 2008)

Very well said DJZ, although i think what prawn is saying is that he understands the severity of the situation but instead of spending his life trying to change it (and die poor as he might think) he's thinking on the other hand, how can i capitalize from all this information im receiving.

For me as an example i know this wont change overnight or possibly in my lifetime but i will do things to support change (like spreading the word, video etc.. starts by helping others realise themselves) but again my main view on this is if i understand how the central banks and monopoly men capitalize on other peoples losses then how can i use that education to avoid the tsunami and if possible profit from it.


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## Temjin (20 October 2008)

I agree with Prawn_86 here and also have "fairly" similar believes, but not necessary about joining "them". 

I'm more realistic about what I can do and what I should be worrying about. One of the most effective habit I have learnt (yes, from the 7 habits book) is to only worry about stuff that I have control in and ignore those that I do not. 

Worrying about how to save the world from these corrupted, evil, power hungry individuals/corporations is pointless because there is nothing I can do  right now to make any slight differences right now. (due to lack of resources) All I can do is to protect myself from the system and accumulate as much resource (and power) as possible by taking advantage of it, and hope that one day, I could make more significant differences through other, "stealthy" means.

It's like trying to fight the "war" from behind the scene. Being so openly about hating the system and want to fight it would only lead yourself to misery, both physically and mentally. 

So let's be realistic here and be mindful of your family's well being.


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## Julia (20 October 2008)

DJZ, thank you for insightful comments.   We are, I think, ignorant victims of global manipulations, largely by the US, to an extent we find difficult to appreciate.

Talking around this general topic today with my accountant, he mentioned some background from a couple of years ago which seems relevant.

Rather a lengthy read, but the relevance becomes clear if you persist.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/12125


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## DJZ (21 October 2008)

Ageo Temjin I Totally agree, I take a holistic approach to everything, and will be using what I know to my advantage us much as I can, I will also live my life in a different way to what I would have, had I not worked out why everything is the way it is, ie I wont be a lemming anymore who doesn't understand why the world works the way it does. Most world events never really made sense and alot of history always seemed watered down, and now I understand why that is. But I wouldn't go as far as saying I'd Join them, I will always stand on the side of the people not matter what when it comes to the crunch.

Julia thanks for the link, will read that tomorrow! I have read alot about US hegemony, when it comes down to it, its the only thing keeping the dollars value up. If the US dollar was not to be traded for oil, the use of US dollars would become minimal across the world and its value would tank, which is one of the reasons why they attacked Iraq, and why they want to go into Iran.


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## Hanuman (15 November 2008)

Epochal Transformation Accelerates 
   As Global Financial Matrix Disintegrates 

Read entire article @   http://truthseeker2.wordpress.com/

   Now that the genie is out of the bottle, worldwide economic, political and social events will proceed with the inexorable force of destiny.  The forthcoming changes, shifts and breaks with the past that are delineated below do concern the unsavory business of WHAT, positively, will not be brought into the future.  This is of critical importance.  Why?  Because those who do not know, and understand, and heed history, are always, always forced to repeat it.                                 

I.   As we all sat back and waited for this year’s October Surprise, please know that it came a little bit early this year on September 15th which will forever be known as PITCH BLACK MONDAY.  Actually, the entire month of October was set up to be a series of Black Monday’s, as well as every other day of the week shaped up to be.  It’s really a good time to brace your self since this year’s election cycle, and beyond, will bring with it a whole new season of surprises.  Things like the beginning of the end of FIAT money – the real root cause of all our financial problems and economic ills.  This foundational flaw, together with all of the multi-layered financial/economic/accounting mechanisms and schemes that have insidiously crept into the system, are the ‘not talked about’ institutionalized culprits and structural deformities that really need to go.  Without them, the perps wouldn’t be so tempted to stack the deck against us all the time.  
   The only legitimate currency is that which is backed by GOLD, or some other precious commodity that is universally valued, and issued directly by the US Government, not a privately owned, organized crime syndicate like the FED.  Debt driven, fractional-reserve banking – the real bane of global finance – will then be banished from the planet forever, along with the overlords of disaster capitalism, institutionalized usury & loan-sharking (e.g. World Bank & International Monetary Fund), as well as their economic hitmen.  Finally, the central organizing principle of modern society, and especially Western Civilization, will no longer be: maximizing shareholders’ wealth.
   The writing is on the wall: THE FED IS DEAD.  And so is the Fed’s collection agency – the IRS.  The FED has obviously been on extreme life support since September ’08, and the only compassionate response is to let it go peacefully into the sunset.  Perhaps we should organize a simple taxpayers’ revolt, not too unlike those that occurred prior to the American Revolution, to bury this beast forever.  When the people do wake up, and realize that the Federal Reserve Note that they carry in their pocket is exactly that – a note (i.e. debt, obligation, debit, commitment, instrument of indebtedness), things will start to get REEEEAL interesting !


V.   Stock market will become extinct.  There is no greater tool at the disposal of those who can, and do, manipulate the various markets than the charade of “setting up” a formal system of trading, buying and selling of anything, as exemplified by the NYSE.  This is where it all happens.  From devastating whole national (and regional) economies, to toppling uncooperative corporate execs, to bringing 150 year old multi-billion $$$ companies to their knees within a week’s time.  From triggering stockholder revolts, to propping up corporate raiders, to extorting billions from national and/or corporate treasuries.  They can, and do, do it all right there on the floor.
   Really, the very best example of what occurs in these speculative market exchanges is the gambling casino.  In Vegas, everyone knows that the house ALWAYS wins.  It never loses. Even when there is the appearance of losing, it still wins.  Go figure, but it’s true. Your stockbroker is not too unlike the blackjack dealer.  And your financial planner is often a croupier in disguise.  So, the question remains, do you honestly know what your hard earned retirement money is invested in?  If not, this is a very good time to find out!!!
   For those of us who have been there, we know that whether you call it an oil bourse, a commodity exchange, or a bond market, you’re still playing in a game that can go against you at any time.  Wipe out your earnings in a heartbeat; devour your principal in a flash.  It’s often been said that when he comes, “he comes like a thief in the night”.  Do you still feel you know where your entire life savings is currently residing?
   The derivatives market represents the single greatest threat to worldwide economic stability and financial security.  It poses such great potential for financial abuse and economic devastation that the current institutional arrangements of this commercial realm have become completely unacceptable.  The alarming proliferation of hedge funds, as well as the growing number and variety of derivative instruments, has reached a critical mass that is incompatible with living a financially sound life on planet Earth.  Simply put, some of these instruments are so far from the street – economic reality – that they put into jeopardy all the hard work, which appears in the form of real goods and services, that is produced by any economy at any given time.  This predicament signifies a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER to us all.  
   Remember – DERIVATIVES are the real megilla.  Derivatives, by their very nature, can be highly radioactive, and can go nuclear any time circumstances conspire in just the right, or wrong, way.  Those who control their destiny can, likewise, utilize their inherent threat as a means of conducting financial and economic terrorism anytime, anywhere completely under the radar screen.  It’s time for them to go.  And we trust it’s just a matter of execution at this point.    


VIII.   There is a very profound and significant connection between the US Government sponsored and staged terrorist attacks of 9/11/01 and the PRE-PLANNED Financial & Economic 9/11 of 2008 that may be difficult for many to fully embrace.  But here it goes:   
   The OMEN that 911 truly was, looks a little bit like THE LORD OF THE RINGS.
Remember the Twin Towers?  When they came down in NYC, it was a message to humankind that the reign of the Almighty Dollar was coming to an end.  As a nation’s currency goes, so goes its destiny.  Her financial strength and economic prowess were on the wane, and soon to be greatly diminished.  Just as the WTC (financial capital of the world) was pulverized into dust, the US Dollar would be swept into the ash heap of history.  Just as we see it collapsing all around us, exactly 7 years after the original 911 apocalyptic events.
   When the Ring of Power was finally destroyed, like the Pentagon (ring-shaped command center of the military-industrial complex) was mortally wounded and damaged, the message was equally clear.  Her military might and superior force would be reduced to rubble in the twinkling of an eye.  She would, likewise, soon see the demise of Her all-pervasive state sponsored terrorism.  This, because She had lost all moral ascendancy.  Besides, the empire could no longer be sustained politically, financially, practically or ethically, as the seeds of its own destruction had fully sprouted.  The most fatal seed grew into that extremely corrupt and predatory form of corporate, crony capitalism which was so socially unconscious, and so environmentally unaware, it was quite doomed from the very beginning. 
    The GOOD NEWS is that this nation – its people – will now be compelled to beat their “swords into plowshares” and their “spears into pruning hooks”.
   Just as the Phoenix rose from its ashes, so too will America ascend to even greater heights.  As long as She ascends with the guidance of the highest of ideals, loftiest of   principles and noblest of intentions.  And She reforms, and transforms Herself, in good faith, in earnest and with haste.  
   As a modern day prophet said in the days immediately following September 11, 2001:
“America, Wake up ! ! !  Seize this God-given opportunity.  There is no more time to dally in fear and ignorance and greed.  For yours is a destiny that must serve as a beacon of Light and Hope and Peace to the world.  Make haste, the time i drawing nigh!”

T. Anthony Michael         
11/14/08
Publication, posting and printing of this article is expressly authorized.


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