# Did you have a mentor?



## theperfo (31 May 2014)

I just wanted to ask, before you invested in stocks... did you get a mentor first or not? Just pure self study? Thanks for all your response.


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## pavilion103 (31 May 2014)

theperfo said:


> I just wanted to ask, before you invested in stocks... did you get a mentor first or not? Just pure self study? Thanks for all your response.




Started with study. It CAN be done on your own with determination (and time).

One if the experienced forum members Tech/a became my mentor. We spoke on the phone, I've caught up with him a few times. But mainly email access. Sharing charts, thoughts etc.

It fast-tracked my development MASSIVELY.

What helped is that he traded in a similar way to the approach I endeavored to pursue to it worked out very well.


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## DeepState (31 May 2014)

theperfo said:


> I just wanted to ask, before you invested in stocks... did you get a mentor first or not? Just pure self study? Thanks for all your response.




I had a great CEO who acted as a sounding board without really ever stepping in to overrule whatever notion or initiative I was pursuing.  Without telling me what to do, he would help me see more clearly and help refine the thoughts and ideas I had.  We used to chat for an hour each week without an agenda. All great players have coaches.  I was fortunate to have a great coach who gave me a shot at becoming better than I was.

I suggest you find someone who you can sit with that offers you an objective opinion on what you have been doing and what you have been thinking.  Anyone who can serve as an objective mirror will be better than sitting by yourself.

I read elsewhere that MichaelD has a meeting with his wife once a week to discuss risk.  He seems to find it useful, I guess...or maybe it's out of respect to his life partner too.

Then you put in piles of effort to learn from your own experience too in whatever way suits you.  Book learning, trial and error on small amounts, talking to people...whatever works for you.


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## burglar (31 May 2014)

theperfo said:


> I just wanted to ask, before you invested in stocks... did you get a mentor first or not? Just pure self study? Thanks for all your response.




Yes! I did you get a mentor first.

He was self taught. 
We made mistakes aplenty.
Later, I had to unlearn a lot.

But there was an anecdote I would like to relay.


He gave me the confidence to put the money down.

One day I was in a panic, the market still open.
A perfect opportunity to commit a classic newbie error.
Selling in panic.

He started to talk about things he knew to be interesting!
I listened, 
he talked some more, ....

I listened, 
he talked some more, ....

Before I knew it, the market was closed.


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## Faramir (31 May 2014)

burglar said:


> One day I was in a panic, the market still open.
> A perfect opportunity to commit a classic newbie error.
> Selling in panic.



He prevented you selling in panic. My first share I brought has already tanked 50%-60%. I didn't panic sell because I do not want to crystallise my loss. I still believe I hold a good stock.

I only brought three shares already over a two month period.

Do I need a mentor? Will it mean I can take short cuts with my decision making process? Would it be better that I try to be independent? I am not willing to spend on a Full Service Stock Broker.

What do mentors look for if they are willing to spend time with someone new? What makes an experience person think "Right, I want to help someone, I want help someone do what I do". It is one thing for a beginner to say: "Who wants to mentor me? - I promise that I will be great." It is another thing for someone with experience to say: "OK, I will mentor you because you look promising." What do mentors gain from this process?

(I can only go by my personal experience when I help my Surf Club Trainer train new Bronze Medallion trainees. It helps me re-learn what I have may forgotten, it keeps me fit being a practice patient, swimming out and letting them practice rescuing me, I enjoy seeing people improving and watching them gain fulfilment as they gain their Bronze Medallion. I know the club will gain more Lifesavers and thus reducing the workload for the rest of lifesavers in our club - we all volunteer to help our club.)

I hope many beginners can find mentors.


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## burglar (31 May 2014)

Faramir said:


> He prevented you selling in panic. My first share I brought has already tanked 50%-60%. I didn't panic sell because I do not want to crystallise my loss. I still believe I hold a good stock ...




Not quite sure if you understood or misunderstood.

There is huge gulf between sensible stoploss and panic selling.
Panic selling is emotional ... 


> Oh shyte ... I made a big mistake. I'll sell now before it gets worse.
> ...
> ...
> Ohh double shyte, now I compounded my big mistake because they bounced back.




Sensible stoploss involves analysis, preferably before the tanking or even before the buying.

Holding is another option.
You also have to decide is it emotional to hold or is it based on analysis, ...


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## burglar (31 May 2014)

Faramir said:


> ... Do I need a mentor? Will it mean I can take short cuts with my decision making process? Would it be better that I try to be independent? I am not willing to spend on a Full Service Stock Broker ...




The Broker is not your friend!!



Faramir said:


> ... What do mentors gain from this process ...




A relationship ... a warm feeling (like pissing in a wet suit)!


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## Faramir (31 May 2014)

burglar said:


> Not quite sure if you understood or misunderstood.
> 
> There is huge gulf between sensible stoploss and panic selling.
> Panic selling is emotional ...
> ...




Hi Burglar

Thank you for replying. I am holding cos this company has two patents, did have a good balance sheet and have recently opened up in Germany and Brazil. The original reason for the first tank was due to a misleading report that has been discredited. The second tanking (2 months later) occurred due to a profit downgrade due to the first report. I read many reports stating that it has been oversold. I made the mistake of buying one month after the first tanking thinking that I had a bargain. Wished I brought after the second big drop. I even kept newspaper clippings from AFR and Smart Investor saying good things about this stock (published after the first big drop.)
I am holding because my gut feeling tells me that this company will recover. I think it is worth more. I even worked out the selling price I want after its recovery due to the speculative nature of this stock.

OK, maybe I am being emotional - my ranting is obviously trying to justify my newbie decision. Maybe I do need a mentor (if I can only find one?) My mentor would have told me that I was making a speculating decision and not an investing decision. The only positive is that if The stock suddenly equal $0, I put very little in it that it hurt my ego and not ruin me financially.

Does anyone else have a positive story about how their mentor change their decisions?
Does anyone have a negative story about how their mentor made them buy wrong stocks or sell incorrect stocks?


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## burglar (1 June 2014)

Faramir said:


> Hi Burglar
> 
> Thank you for replying. I am holding cos this company has ... ...




Hi Faramir,

Welcome to ASF!!

You were lucky enough to find ASF, where you find many mentors.
(sure we are in cyberspace and you seem to be searching for the comfort of face-to-face mentoring)

Ask away, but be sure to sort the straw from the chaff.
Take baby steps. Dovetail what you learn with what you knew.

I do not admonish your choice of company or your hold-in-faith strategy.
How can I, I am probably doin' worse than you.
You are the only person on the planet who is responsible for your choices and strategies.
Clearly you are feeling the weight.

A mentor would help you by saying such things as:
"don't panic!"
"it will be alright on the night!"
"what have you learnt"

If he tells you to buy XYZ rather than ABC, clearly he is not helpful to you in the long term.




Make interesting mistakes, you learn a better lesson.


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## luutzu (1 June 2014)

Faramir said:


> He prevented you selling in panic. My first share I brought has already tanked 50%-60%. I didn't panic sell because I do not want to crystallise my loss. I still believe I hold a good stock.
> 
> I only brought three shares already over a two month period.
> 
> ...




While it's good to have a mentor, be careful who you choose to do the mentoring. 

Often, as a newbie, you probably have no choice and would be grateful to get any advice you could... and if you're lucky enough to have a person mentoring you, it might be very hard to later question some, if not all, of the advice you've been given.

So unless you're one of the lucky few who know people who are intelligent and generous with their time and who know what they're doing and won't mind your questioning etc... the best thing to do is to read a few very good books on investing and let those authors be your mentors.

Then simply put to practice what you've learnt, maybe make a few friends and learn from them and they from you.

---
Books, unlike a real life mentor,  you can question and ignore if you don't agree.
It's very hard to disagree with people who have been good friends and mentored you.

Books are written by people, at least in my case, who are much more experienced and probably smarter than anyone you or I could hope to find as a mentor anyway.

I mean, you probably couldn't find a more experienced and generous mentor than Peter Lynch or Phillip Fisher, definitely not a more successful mentor than Warren Buffett.

That's not to say that you could learn all they know from a book or a speech or an essay, or could learn it correctly... but at least when they sit down and prepare and write something, they probably put more thought into it than a real life mentor usually would over a beer.

And from the few things I do read, most fund managers learnt from Graham and Buffett and Lynch anyway. 
I mean, Roger Montgomery of Skaffold and Montgomery fund management... if he were to reference every key points he made in his lectures/seminars/interviews, they will all be dotted with Buffett, Graham... and what's more, he's wrong about how to value a stock - at least that's not what I've heard and have thought would be done from their writings and interviews anyway.

And he's managing $500 million (from a session he gave couple years ago), written a book, one of his funds require minimum $1 million and you could only invest if invited or referred to him.

It would be near impossible to get Roger to mentor you, and impossible to question his thinking if he were your mentor. And in the end, his apprentice will have good stories to tell, real life experience about Australand fund management, a good resume'... wait, i think that's all you'd need to make money professionally


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## Faramir (1 June 2014)

Thank you Burglar and Luutzu. Your advice not only benefits me but others who are also browsing through this site.


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## burglar (1 June 2014)

Faramir said:


> Thank you Burglar and Luutzu. Your advice not only benefits me but others who are also browsing through this site.




Read a book ... sure! 
It may even answer your questions!?
But only if the author knew which questions you would ask.

THAT is why I like this forum!!

As I said earlier ... ask away.


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## luutzu (1 June 2014)

burglar said:


> Read a book ... sure!
> It may even answer your questions!?
> But only if the author knew which questions you would ask.
> 
> ...




I think the question to readers of investment books will always be: how do i make money 

I think Buffett once wrote that there's four business books he kept in his library - Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations and Graham/Dodd's Intelligent Investor/Security Analysis. 

These books, Buffett said, provided all the framework an investor need.

I think Buffett, earlier in his career, mimic Graham's practise too closely and so did not do as well as he could have - that Buffett prefer a bargain to a great growth business. This was not, i think, because Graham is all about value and assets because I've seen Graham talk about future earnings and growth companies and how those are the real source to greater wealth... it's probably in his own conservative practise to look for assets there and now...

I think it took Buffett over a decade to slowly realise this... after a miserable experience with Berkshire Hathaway and such.

So even a smart guy like Buffett could find it hard to question his mentor's practice. 

Anyway, if you don't have anyone to mentor... it might end up being an advantage: it force you to read more widely, learn from all sources and your own experiences... it then helps to not do things the same way or think the same way your competitors does.


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