# Building a computer



## It's Snake Pliskin (15 January 2009)

Has anyone ever built their own computer? If so what is vital as far as knowledge goes? Do computer parts come with intructions that help in the process?


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## mayk (15 January 2009)

You want to build it from scratch? 

Main components are:

Motherboard (Intel, Gigabyte, etc) Intel preferable.

Processor (Intel or AMD) Again Intel preferable. (chose the motherboard which supports the processor-- different sockets)

Ram (4Gb is sufficient, but the speed 1066Mhz is important)

Chassis (power supply, etc)

Graphics and sound cards are usually built-in to the motherboard. But you can buy a good variant yourself.

I have build my own system a long time ago. I suppose it is better to buy a computer from dell (etc.), it is cheap and in the long run is more compact, and built carefully. 

Having said that you can learn a lot about computers by building it yourself.  You can buy the whole system (often as a package) from ebay at a reduced cost.

Regarding instructions you can find many videos on the youtube.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (15 January 2009)

mayk said:


> You want to build it from scratch?
> 
> Main components are:
> 
> ...



Thanks Mayk.

Yes I was thinking of building a laptop with specs I wanted as opposed to buying one with stuff not needed. 

regarding processors, why Intel over Amd?


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## doctorj (15 January 2009)

The act of physically putting a computer together is quite straightforward. The key things to remember are to not force anything (things should go in relatively easily) and to be aware of static. 

On the first point, components generally only fit where they were intended to go and the direction they're meant to be put in. On the second, the easiest way to prevent static build up is to have the case's power supply plugged in to the power (but switched off obviously) and be sure to touch the exposed metal on the inside of the case frequently.

Even Dell mark up their products a lot and as long as you have the time it can be a very educational and money-saving experience. Your local computer store can help you ensure that each component you buy works with each other. Be sure to shop around by getting quotes one the same components as there can be a lot of variance from store to store. If you're in WA, I highly recommend Austin Computers or PLE. 

I've built every PC I've ever bought and the only difficulty I've had is putting the heat sink on the CPUs. The old athlons in particular were a nightmare and nearly resulted in me putting a screwdriver through the motherboard. Fortunately things are a lot easier these days and heat sinks clip on much easier.

I'm happy to help with any specific questions you have.

Edit: I see you're interested in building a laptop rather than a desktop.  That really is a whole different kettle of fish and not something I can offer much help on.  You can pick up a cheap new laptop here suitable for word processing and web browsing for under £200 - I assume you can get similar in Australia and if you're interested in a laptop, I'd strongly encourage you to look at that option.


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## mayk (15 January 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Thanks Mayk.
> 
> Yes I was thinking of building a laptop with specs I wanted as opposed to buying one with stuff not needed.
> 
> regarding processors, why Intel over Amd?




I am sorry, those instructions were for desktops. Laptops are more complex, and I don't think you can build them, the heat is a big issue with the chassis and they are modeled by branded companies (dell, hp, lenovo) ..

Well it is the age old question of Toyota (intel) Vs Hyundai (AMD). If you look at the technology, Intel is at least one step ahead of AMD. There processors produce less heat (crucial factor in laptops). 

I have nothing against AMD, infact my desktop (given to me by a friend) is AMD based, and performs as well as intel (laptop). It is just a matter of technology for me. Mind you AMD is cheaper than Intel.


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## disarray (15 January 2009)

if you want a laptop, buy one. toshibas are solid but choose whatever suits your budget / requirements.

putting desktops together can be a pain in the ass, especially when it comes with putting the drivers all together for the operating system. it's pretty straightforward, but if you haven't done it before you could face drama. for a bit of extra cash you can outsource the pain and have someone to send it back to when it falls over.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (15 January 2009)

doctorj said:


> The act of physically putting a computer together is quite straightforward. The key things to remember are to not force anything (things should go in relatively easily) and to be aware of static.
> 
> On the first point, components generally only fit where they were intended to go and the direction they're meant to be put in. On the second, the easiest way to prevent static build up is to have the case's power supply plugged in to the power (but switched off obviously) and be sure to touch the exposed metal on the inside of the case frequently.
> 
> ...




Thanks Dr J, that was an enlightening post. I'll consider looking for cheaper laptops but I know some people who mentioned they built one but have no details of what they used. 

Cheers..


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## It's Snake Pliskin (15 January 2009)

mayk said:


> I am sorry, those instructions were for desktops. Laptops are more complex, and I don't think you can build them, the heat is a big issue with the chassis and they are modeled by branded companies (dell, hp, lenovo) ..
> 
> Well it is the age old question of Toyota (intel) Vs Hyundai (AMD). If you look at the technology, Intel is at least one step ahead of AMD. There processors produce less heat (crucial factor in laptops).
> 
> I have nothing against AMD, infact my desktop (given to me by a friend) is AMD based, and performs as well as intel (laptop). It is just a matter of technology for me. Mind you AMD is cheaper than Intel.



Thanks Mayk and Dissaray.


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## BentRod (15 January 2009)

Snake,
         I think you might be getting mixed up with desktops and laptops?

I can't see how it is possible to build your own laptop. For this to be even possible you would have to be able to buy 'empty' laptops with a functioning screen that you could connect the mobo and vid card to......


Ah I give up


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## lesm (15 January 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Has anyone ever built their own computer? If so what is vital as far as knowledge goes? Do computer parts come with intructions that help in the process?




Snake,

Have a look a this site for how-to's, comparisons, etc. The site has been around for years:

http://www.tomshardware.com/us/

Pretty straight forward to build a desktop, have built a few over the years.

Cheers.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (15 January 2009)

lesm said:


> Snake,
> 
> Have a look a this site for how-to's, comparisons, etc. The site has been around for years:
> 
> ...



Thanks Lesm, I'll check it out.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (15 January 2009)

BentRod said:


> Snake,
> I think you might be getting mixed up with desktops and laptops?
> 
> I can't see how it is possible to build your own laptop. For this to be even possible you would have to be able to buy 'empty' laptops with a functioning screen that you could connect the mobo and vid card to......
> ...




Bentrod,
From what I have been told one can build laptop. I need to investigate it further to see if it is worth it.
Cheers.


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## aleckara (15 January 2009)

If you can build a laptop a lot more people would be doing so.

The problem from what I understand is the heat. Since laptop components are cramped into a smaller space it is harder to standardise the chassis design as there is a lot less space to work with in there. More cramped components = less ventilation.

AMD - Intel tend to leapfrog each other. A few years ago IMO AMD was better (before the Core 2 Duo's came out). The prescott core's from Intel (P4's) were horrible. Intel did go past them with Core 2 Duo but I think AMD may be close now or has managed to catch up with their Phenom II 4 core's.


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## xyzedarteerf (15 January 2009)

Building a desktop yes anyone can do it. 
Building a laptop now thats a whole different ball game.

Just an example the price of a replacement LCD screen alone can sometimes cost more than buying a new one. so cost wise not worth the effort.

put this way every single part in a laptop has been custom built for a particular model not all parts are interchangeable that's why you cannot upgrade a laptop , well you can purchase more ram but that's about it.

but then again if you have $$$ to burn then sky's the limit.


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## johenmo (15 January 2009)

Desktop - simple to build.

Laptop - never tried and won't.  Worked in office next to laptop fix-it guy for our company and a coule of mates are in own businesses.  They all said buy the laptop but don't go to big store.  They do things like sell with Vista and 512 Meg Ram.  You wouldn't go near Vista without 2 Gb RAM if you want some power - 1 Gb Min.

Watch out for brands which "force" you to buy their parts due to unique parts etc.  We use Dell for work and they are OK.  Google and you'll find enough reviews.

AMD used to be the gamer's chip, and Intel for business.  Don't know now.  I prefer Intel.


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## Wysiwyg (15 January 2009)

I just so happen to have kept some useful information in a notepad so when I get a new computer it will be good.Is fast, is good.


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## mayk (15 January 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> I just so happen to have kept some useful information in a notepad so when I get a new computer it will be good.Is fast, is good.




It was a good read,  reminded me of my micro processor architecture class. But it is now approximately a decade old info 

Also include the dual, quad processor cores info.


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## Wysiwyg (15 January 2009)

mayk said:


> It was a good read,  reminded me of my micro processor architecture class. But it is now approximately a decade old info
> 
> Also include the dual, quad processor cores info.





Well I`ll slip the latest numbers in to replace the out dated ones.Thanks Mayk.


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## awg (15 January 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Has anyone ever built their own computer? If so what is vital as far as knowledge goes? Do computer parts come with intructions that help in the process?




Not worth the trouble, even with a desktop, unless you REALLY want to learn.
Too many possible gotchas, not enough money saved for the time spent.

With a laptop, you are just asking for trouble.

Unless you are experienced in the dismantling of complex miniaturised equipment, the inside of a laptop is no place for the faint-hearted


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## It's Snake Pliskin (16 January 2009)

Thanks for all of the replies. 

What would be a good quality laptop maker that is reliable and doesn't have batteries that catch on fire?


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## cashcow (17 January 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Thanks for all of the replies.
> 
> What would be a good quality laptop maker that is reliable and doesn't have batteries that catch on fire?




In general, I agree with the approach of buying a laptop with the specs you want/need upfront, and then using it but otherwise not messing with it.  Other posters here who've mentioned the custom designs inherent in laptops are right:  There are some general principles adopted by all the manufacturers but if different brands resemble each other under their skins it's probably more likely a consequence of using the same fab plant than any deliberate attempt to "standardise" things.

I've personally used both Dells and Toshiba laptops, with no complaints.  For the type of specs I usually seek Dells were, until recently, quite a bit less expensive, but the gap is negligible now.  I've had pretty good experiences with Dell after-sales support too, though Toshiba's might be as good if not better.  You might also consider one of the new mini/netbook styles available, if screen size and resolution isn't critical to your use - they're dirt cheap!  In fact, if I were in the market for a computer now, I'd probably get a netbook (there are many manufacturers doing these) for all my mobile/business use, and a desktop for more intensive stuff like gaming/image editing, etc.  With these two purchases combined you'd probably spend the same or perhaps even less than a more "powerful" laptop alone.

For desktops, I always build my own.  OEMs tend to put seals and other stuff which voids your warranty if you dare to peek inside (let alone upgrade any components).  Since I don't care about anything more than individual components' warranties, I don't really want after-sales support for a desktop.

Ahem.  In answer to your original question, you've no doubt seen the 'net littered with tutorials au-go-go.  There are several on YouTube if you like to watch.

All the best!
CC


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## CoffeeKing (17 January 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Thanks for all of the replies.
> 
> What would be a good quality laptop maker that is reliable and doesn't have batteries that catch on fire?




Cannot recommend NEC P9110, has all the bells and whistles but runs vista
and is starting to have problems ( CD wont play ) programs drop out, 
and it seems the case nowadays that the OS is intergrated 
so you don't get a disc anymore ( I didn't get one )  so I have no idea how to do a clean install again.
It's going back on Monday, still under warranty so they can fix the damn thing

On the other hand, Toshiba "Tecra A2" which has been going for 5 years now
hasn't missed a beat ( except for the LAN adapter ) only 1.4 mhz so it's a bit slower compared to todays laptops, 
does me fine, runs everything I need and has XP pro OS


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## It's Snake Pliskin (18 January 2009)

cashcow said:


> In general, I agree with the approach of buying a laptop with the specs you want/need upfront, and then using it but otherwise not messing with it.  Other posters here who've mentioned the custom designs inherent in laptops are right:  There are some general principles adopted by all the manufacturers but if different brands resemble each other under their skins it's probably more likely a consequence of using the same fab plant than any deliberate attempt to "standardise" things.
> 
> I've personally used both Dells and Toshiba laptops, with no complaints.  For the type of specs I usually seek Dells were, until recently, quite a bit less expensive, but the gap is negligible now.  I've had pretty good experiences with Dell after-sales support too, though Toshiba's might be as good if not better.  You might also consider one of the new mini/netbook styles available, if screen size and resolution isn't critical to your use - they're dirt cheap!  In fact, if I were in the market for a computer now, I'd probably get a netbook (there are many manufacturers doing these) for all my mobile/business use, and a desktop for more intensive stuff like gaming/image editing, etc.  With these two purchases combined you'd probably spend the same or perhaps even less than a more "powerful" laptop alone.
> 
> ...



Thanks CC.


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## nulla nulla (18 January 2009)

In respect of laptops, I have had good experiences with IBM Thinkpads, originaly Thinkpad A21m, upgraded after 5 years to Thinkpad G41 and a recent purchase (18 months ago) Thinkpad R61. I choose the option packages carefully to avoid the need to change specifications later and I take the extended warranty. At such times there have been issues IBM have fixed them without any problems.


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## happytown (22 December 2009)

for those interested,

Upgrading and repairing PC's, 19th Ed, Scott Mueller (2010)
ISBN 9780789739542
1,177pp
includes instructional dvd

recommend it

Build the ultimate custom PC, A & K Kingsley-Hughes (2006)
ISBN 9780471760993
410pp

Build your own PC for dummies, Mark Chambers (2009)
ISBN 9780470196113
340pp

Building the perfect PC, BF & R Thompson, (2006)
ISBN 9780596526863
720pp


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## OzWaveGuy (22 December 2009)

You may also want to try looking at some of the online computer Auction sites. I've purchase all my PCs from DOLA in Canberra, strip them back, added/HDD/Video Cards/RAM/Sound Cards where needed. 

You can pick them up at a very cheap price and they are tested before sold.

They also sell a wide range of notebook computers as well - again, they are tested. Some will have missing power supplies or dead batteries - which you will need replace at a cost$$

http://www.allbids.com.au/Category/?ID=1

There's probably a bunch of these online auction houses around Australia.


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

Just wondering if anyone is confident enough to give me advice on my selection of parts to build my first computer from scratch? I've got a list if anyone has the time...

Cheers.


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

post it up ..........I make my own computers and do so for other people


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> post it up ..........I make my own computers and do so for other people




sweet, thanks waza!

Ill just put the whole code up, as I don't know how you distinguish parts, or what you need to know:

motherboard - asus s1155 micro atx p8h77 M Pro
Ram - DDR3 Corsair 1600 MHZ veng cl9 2x 4 gig
CPU - Intel S1155 i7 3770k 3.5 GHZ quad core
21.5"LG LCD LED monitor
Blu ray pioneer BDC 207 DBK 8xSATA dvd player
2TB Western digital 3.5" Sata 6GB cavier red hard drive
Case - thermaltake ATX V4 with 500w power supply.

The CPU has a built in graphics card I believe, and I'm not going to be going crazy on gaming.

What do ya think Waz? any feedback would be much appreciated...Given its my first time I'm not entirely sure it's all compatible, or that I have all bases covered.

Cheers.


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> post it up ..........I make my own computers and do so for other people




PS I have tried to keep it to a budget of $900, and that's basically what dictated my selection of parts.


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## IFocus (6 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> PS I have tried to keep it to a budget of $900, and that's basically what dictated my selection of parts.




Did you try looking at http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/ I have built a couple now and had good results from looking through their stuff not sure if its been kept up to date


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## So_Cynical (6 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> The CPU has a built in graphics card I believe, and I'm not going to be going crazy on gaming.
> 
> What do ya think Waz? any feedback would be much appreciated...Given its my first time I'm not entirely sure it's all compatible, or that I have all bases covered.
> 
> Cheers.




A low end PCIx Graphics card for under $100 will free up system ram and CPU time...the video card will have its own processor and ram.


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## Ferret (6 December 2012)

Young-gun,

Have you considered getting a solid state harddrive (SSD)?  They are all the rage following recent price drops.  

You can get a quality Samsung 830 128GB SSD for less than $100.  That’s big enough to load the operating system and all programs for most people, then use a conventional harddrive for all your data.

I'm about to put one in my 4 year old pc as an upgrade.  They are meant to drastically reduce time for boot up and loading programs.


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

motherboard - asus s1155 micro atx p8h77 M Pro
 I personally prefer Gigtabyte boards (better quatlity IMO)
 Ram - DDR3 Corsair 1600 MHZ veng cl9 2x 4 gig
  RAM looks ok (Kingston is my preference though)
 CPU - Intel S1155 i7 3770k 3.5 GHZ quad core
 I usually go with AMD chips as they are generally better value for money
 21.5"LG LCD LED monitor  ok
 Blu ray pioneer BDC 207 DBK 8xSATA dvd player
 2TB Western digital 3.5" Sata 6GB cavier red hard drive
Think very seriously about getting a SSD drive (it makes a massive difference to speed)just a small one for the operating system as they are expensive and get the one above as well.
 Case - thermaltake ATX V4 with 500w power supply.
 Power supply maybe a little small but ok if your sure you won't add too much to your system 600w/650w would be better.
 I get all my parts of umart or ebay ,austpcmarkets has a good website which helps you with compatability.


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

> A low end PCIx Graphics card for under $100 will free up system ram and CPU time...the video card will have its own processor and ram.




 IMO in a budget system its not worth it onboard graphics are quite good.And RAM & CPU should be able to handle on board graphics easily + inefficient powerwise .


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## captain black (6 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> motherboard - asus s1155 micro atx p8h77 M Pro
> Ram - DDR3 Corsair 1600 MHZ veng cl9 2x 4 gig
> CPU - Intel S1155 i7 3770k 3.5 GHZ quad core
> 21.5"LG LCD LED monitor
> ...




If you're going to be using Windows then don't forget to factor in the cost of the OS, Windows 7 or 8.


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

Ferret said:


> Young-gun,
> 
> Have you considered getting a solid state harddrive (SSD)?  They are all the rage following recent price drops.
> 
> ...




Ferret, yes I was originally told that a SSD would be far superior, but given it is my first build my boss(the one who got me into doing it myself) thought it may not be necessary. Also given my budget, I thought it would blow out substantially getting an SSD. I didn't realise I could get a small cheapy to get the job done and have the Western digital for storage. How do you ensure that one does one thing and the other does the data?



So_Cynical said:


> A low end PCIx Graphics card for under $100 will free up system ram and CPU time...the video card will have its own processor and ram.




I looked into this but was told unless I was gaming that the one in the CPU should suffice, I'll look into it a bit more.



waza1960 said:


> motherboard - asus s1155 micro atx p8h77 M Pro
> I personally prefer Gigtabyte boards (better quatlity IMO)




I was actually tossing up between the two, would a gigabyte board of a similar price(around 140) be jsut as good if not better?




> Ram - DDR3 Corsair 1600 MHZ veng cl9 2x 4 gig
> RAM looks ok (Kingston is my preference though)



I was of the impression that ram is ram, didn't give it much thought.




> CPU- Intel S1155 i7 3770k 3.5 GHZ quad core
> I usually go with AMD chips as they are generally better value for money




I'll check them out, again my boss steered me in the direction of the i7 quad



> 21.5"LG LCD LED monitor  ok




Monitors seem to all be similar, I think the above will be fine also.

Blu ray pioneer BDC 207 DBK 8xSATA dvd player



> 2TB Western digital 3.5" Sata 6GB cavier red hard drive
> Think very seriously about getting a SSD drive (it makes a massive difference to speed)just a small one for the operating system as they are expensive and get the one above as well.




Do you agree with ferret, and believe a small samsung SSD would be ok? if it's under 100 it won't blow my budget too much...



> Case - thermaltake ATX V4 with 500w power supply.
> Power supply maybe a little small but ok if your sure you won't add too much to your system 600w/650w would be better.
> I get all my parts of umart or ebay ,austpcmarkets has a good website which helps you with compatability.




I won't be adding much for now, maybe a graphics card down the track...power supplies seem quite expensive, but thought 500 will do for now, and it comes with the case.



waza1960 said:


> IMO in a budget system its not worth it onboard graphics are quite good.And RAM & CPU should be able to handle on board graphics easily + inefficient powerwise .




Thanks for all the feedback! seems as though although on the right track I have a bit more research to do.


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

captain black said:


> If you're going to be using Windows then don't forget to factor in the cost of the OS, Windows 7 or 8.




I think it was only 40-50 from officeworks at the moment


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## captain black (6 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> I think it was only 40-50 from officeworks at the moment




I think that may be to upgrade from Windows 7. An OEM version is around $95-$100. (I'm a Linux user so someone more familiar with Windows might be able offer better advice  )


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

> Do you agree with ferret, and believe a small samsung SSD would be ok? if it's under 100 it won't blow my budget too much...



 YES and you should be able to save money if you go with a AMD chip



> I was actually tossing up between the two, would a gigabyte board of a similar price(around 140) be jsut as good if not better?



 Definitely IMO

. 







> How do you ensure that one does one thing and the other does the data?



 There are a few ways the easiest for a newbie is to install the SSD first and install the operating System and then hook up the other one after that.
  True RAM is RAM I just had a slight preference thats all.



> If you're going to be using Windows then don't forget to factor in the cost of the OS, Windows 7 or 8.



 There are cheaper alternatives


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> YES and you should be able to save money if you go with a AMD chip
> 
> Definitely IMO
> 
> ...




Waz, do you know what the equivalent AMD chip would be to rival the i7?


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> YES and you should be able to save money if you go with a AMD chip
> 
> Definitely IMO
> 
> ...




To be more specific, how would I go about finding a suitable AMD processor for this Motherboard http://www.computeralliance.com.au/gigabyte-am3-atx-ga-990fxa-d3-motherboard, that is just as good as the i7 quad?


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

Waz, do you know what the equivalent AMD chip would be to rival the i7? 

Most answers are 1 google away..........
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/259122-28-phenom-intel-take-price-performance-account

I7 is a little over the top for a budget system anyway IMO but umart have them for around $250-$300 .The high end AMD chip which I have in my computer is AMD FX 8 Core 4ghz and is $219.



> To be more specific, how would I go about finding a suitable AMD card for this Motherboard http://www.computeralliance.com.au/g...d3-motherboard, that is just as good as the i7 quad?




  Just use the chip mentioned above with the mother board above and your right to go if you wanted to save money you could go for a slightly lower end amd chip and still have comparable performance to the I7.
  BTW I'm not interested in getting into a debate on which is the best chip intel or AMD there are different performance characteristics for both which makes it hard to comare.If money was no object I would go the I7 but value for money the AMD chips are always ahead IMO.


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## medicowallet (6 December 2012)

Ok for a $900 budget, with assumed no overclocking... 

(AMD performance chips are just pathetic at the moment, steer clear of these poorly performing, power guzzling chips)

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 $295
Mobo: Asrock B75 Pro3-M $70
RAM: G.Skill Ares 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 $45
SSD: Samsung 830 128gb drive   $95
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB (ST2000DM001) $99
GPU: (Intel HD 4000)
Case Silverstone TJ08E  $99
PSU : Neo Eco 450W  $59
ODD: DVD burner $19

$781    (modified whirlpool PC)

But unless you are video editing, you could EASILY get away with changing the motherboard and cpu to:

A6 5400k   $75
ASRock FM2A55M-DGS $65

$556


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> Waz, do you know what the equivalent AMD chip would be to rival the i7?
> 
> Most answers are 1 google away..........
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/259122-28-phenom-intel-take-price-performance-account
> ...





Thanks for all the help. Saving money is the main thing for me at the moment, and given it's my first build I don't need the dam thing to hover, I just want something fast, reasonably priced, so i can start getting into computing a bit more.

I think I am pretty well right to go after all this advice, if anyone can suggest a cheap but good SSD like the samsung(just different brands) could you let me know, if there is an equivalent in a different brand for the same price I'll go that, as samsungs don't seem as readily available.


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## medicowallet (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> BTW I'm not interested in getting into a debate on which is the best chip intel or AMD there are different performance characteristics for both which makes it hard to comare.If money was no object I would go the I7 but value for money the AMD chips are always ahead IMO.




Without wanting to start a holy war, this is plain incorrect.

AMD performance chips are just awful, and the FX8 chips are the worst of the bunch.   Get an i7 for performance, or if you truly want AMD, then the lower end chips like the A6 and A8 are ok (although an argument for the i3 or Pentium G chips is compelling)


ALSO note the "1 google away" performance comparison is for intel chips 2 generations older than the current chips, and the AMD is for 1-2 generations older, so the Intel has far better performance in comparison to these results as well.

And note that the per clock performance of the FX is actually LESS than the Phenom 2


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## YMI (6 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> ...equivalent AMD chip would be to rival the i7?



Sorry to enter the conversation but I just saw you're thinking about AMD to save money. I would actually need to look up the paper work but about a year or two ago I bought my computer. Usually I don't built it myself, I rather choose the parts and pay like $15 extra for someone putting them together. I think that's worth it for the guarantee that it actually works afterwards

As for AMD or i7, I didn't think there could be a big difference in energy saving but I had an AMD 3.0GHz dual core before and now an i5-2500k @3.3GHz max.3.7GHz quad. The machine is used 8 to 10 hours a day and I noticed a drop in used electricity (have to lie but I think round $30 in two months). As they keep enhancing these things I can't tell about today's AMD but I am happy I've chosen the i5.

And do you actually need the i7 if you can squeeze 3.7GHz out of the i5 too?


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

medicowallet said:


> Ok for a $900 budget, with assumed no overclocking...
> 
> (AMD performance chips are just pathetic at the moment, steer clear of these poorly performing, power guzzling chips)
> 
> ...




Where are you quoting prices from MW?


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

> Without wanting to start a holy war, this is plain incorrect.
> 
> AMD performance chips are just awful, and the FX8 chips are the worst of the bunch. Get an i7 for performance, or if you truly want AMD, then the lower end chips like the A6 and A8 are ok (although an argument for the i3 or Pentium G chips is compelling)
> 
> ...




I knew there would be one such comment but thats ok I stand by my comments...
 So Again


> *BTW I'm not interested in getting into a debate *on which is the best chip intel or AMD there are different performance characteristics for both which makes it hard to comare.If money was no object I would go the I7 but value for money the AMD chips are always ahead IMO.


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## medicowallet (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> I knew there would be one such comment but thats ok I stand by my comments...
> So Again




Yeah, but recommending the poorest chip to people who have little understanding about computers is almost doing just that.

Just because you prefer AMD and made the mistake of purchasing a poor CPU, doesn't mean you should sell this mistake to people with limited experience.

The ONLY mainstream AMD cpus that should even be considered are the A range, the FX range are just terrible.

There is no value for money argument either..


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## waza1960 (6 December 2012)

> Yeah, but recommending the poorest chip to people who have little understanding about computers is almost doing just that.
> 
> Just because you prefer AMD and made the mistake of purchasing a poor CPU, doesn't mean you should sell this mistake to people with limited experience.
> 
> ...



Since I'm not debating it any further all I can say is that your full of sh*t


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## medicowallet (6 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> Since I'm not debating it any further all I can say is that your full of sh*t




Something for the intelligent people to read before they make decisions based on your fanboi tripe.

The top one is a must see!  (and note the 3770 is pretty much the 3770k but can't really be overclocked)

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=287

A quick youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7wFKewAbgs

Some other computer geek's opinions:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1791955#

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1780353#

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1992337#


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## young-gun (6 December 2012)

medicowallet said:


> Something for the intelligent people to read before they make decisions based on your fanboi tripe.
> 
> The top one is a must see!  (and note the 3770 is pretty much the 3770k but can't really be overclocked)
> 
> ...




Don't wanna get involved in this, but MW what is over-clocking? and why is it bad, and how would I do it? also, those prices you rattled off, were they guestimates or did you pull them from somewhere?


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## medicowallet (6 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> Don't wanna get involved in this, but MW what is over-clocking? and why is it bad, and how would I do it? also, those prices you rattled off, where they guestimates or did you pull them from somewhere?




Overclocking is running the chip above its stock speed..  eg an i5 2500k (old chip) was 3.3 GHz at stock and easily overclocked with a $30 aftermarket air cooler to 4.5GHz +

If you are new, don't worry about overclocking, as the motherboard needs to be more expensive/different chipset of the motherboard and for some cpus, a different version.

The prices on whirlpool are usually MSY or PCCG..

PCCG also does pre-made systems, but in reality building them is really easy and quite fun.  

I have purchased a lot from PCCG (after I exited my computer business)  http://pccasegear.com/

If you are just using a system for minor gaming and the usual stuff, an A6 AMD cpu will be fine for most people (I currently use one at home, but also have a Xeon 1230, and i7 3770k which are overkill for some of my uses)


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## medicowallet (6 December 2012)

To answer your questions

1. Overclocking is not bad, my 3770k is overclocked.

2. For intel you need a "k" cpu, a z77 motherboard and an aftermarket CPU cooler (eg Hyper212 evo which is good bang for buck, up to custom water cooling kits!) to get a viable overclock (an arguable point for some  )

All you do for a basic overclock is go into the bios (or software program on desktop) and change the "multiplier".  If stable, and temperature of the cpu under load is fine, you are ok.

If unstable then you either run a lower overclock, or change voltages.... it is this change of voltages where damage can occur, and where if you are inexperienced, some advice can come in handy.

So in all

1. the right equipment
2. The right testing program - gives you info on temps and stability
3. The right voltage for stability if required.

Some would argue that for the real world performance, you are better off just getting a better CPU if you are not buying a top end one.. I sort of agree with this, so if the i7 3770 (or i5 (which is a better CPU for everyday tasks)) is at the upper end of your budget go for it, whereas if you had more, an argument could be made for a 3770k setup with an overclock.

What uses?  If not any hardcore transcoding etc, I honestly believe that the i7 / fx might be overkill anyway.


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## Ferret (7 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> I didn't realise I could get a small cheapy to get the job done and have the Western digital for storage. How do you ensure that one does one thing and the other does the data?




Like waza said, build the pc with just the SSD and load your operating system.  You could also load programs at this point if you want.  
Then add the disc hard drive.  Any programs you load from here on should still go to the SSD by default.

To get your data going to the disc hard drive:
In windows explorer you would right click on documents to see the properties, click location and change to a directory on the disc hard drive.  You would have to create the directory on the disc hard drive first.  Repeat for pictures, music etc. - easy!

I'd stay away from overclocking if this is your first build.  Its really only for geeks trying to squeeze evey drop of performance from their pc.  If you go too far the pc will get unstable and you might be pulling your hair out wondering whats wrong.

Also agree with others that an I7 is probably overkill.  The I5 is a great chip for most purposes.


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## young-gun (7 December 2012)

Ferret said:


> I'd stay away from overclocking if this is your first build.  Its really only for geeks trying to squeeze evey drop of performance from their pc.  If you go too far the pc will get unstable and you might be pulling your hair out wondering whats wrong.
> 
> Also agree with others that an I7 is probably overkill.  The I5 is a great chip for most purposes.




Sounds like I don't need to concern myself with overclocking then!

Regarding the chip, how long until these sorts of things become out-dated and I need to upgrade? Is it worth getting an i7 now for the sake of $100 or whatever it may be, to save having to upgrade in 12 months time, or is it simply not needed.


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## medicowallet (7 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> Sounds like I don't need to concern myself with overclocking then!
> 
> Regarding the chip, how long until these sorts of things become out-dated and I need to upgrade? Is it worth getting an i7 now for the sake of $100 or whatever it may be, to save having to upgrade in 12 months time, or is it simply not needed.




http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_346_1184&products_id=20894

This should last many years

The main difference between an i5 and an i7 is hyperthreading, which you can notice with transcoding, and very heavy processing tasks for design etc, but a vast majority of people will never utilise this, and are better off spending the $100 later, say in 5 years time.


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## young-gun (7 December 2012)

medicowallet said:


> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_346_1184&products_id=20894
> 
> This should last many years
> 
> The main difference between an i5 and an i7 is hyperthreading, which you can notice with transcoding, and very heavy processing tasks for design etc, but a vast majority of people will never utilise this, and are better off spending the $100 later, say in 5 years time.




No worries, the main reason I was going the i7 was because of the built in graphics card... Can anyone recommend a cheap but good graphics card?? I thought it would be cheaper just using the i7 that's all.


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## medicowallet (7 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> No worries, the main reason I was going the i7 was because of the built in graphics card... Can anyone recommend a cheap but good graphics card?? I thought it would be cheaper just using the i7 that's all.




The i5 and A6 cpus have built in graphics.  (as do most mainstream, although not the pathetic FX)


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## CanOz (7 December 2012)

medicowallet said:


> The i5 and A6 cpus have built in graphics.  (as do most mainstream, although not the pathetic FX)




MCW, you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject so I'm curious as to your opinion of the Falcon Trading PCs...

I know they're not cheap, but its just impossible to get something decent built here.

CanOz


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## CanOz (7 December 2012)

This is the ideal setup....IMO


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## medicowallet (7 December 2012)

CanOz said:


> MCW, you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject so I'm curious as to your opinion of the Falcon Trading PCs...
> 
> I know they're not cheap, but its just impossible to get something decent built here.
> 
> CanOz




1. correct me if I am wrong, but that is a US site?

2. From what I can tell it is a serious system, but most likely massive overkill.

Save some coin and get something like : http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1411_1445&products_id=22210

That uses quality parts (however I am unsure why you would need a 610 video card... but it wouldn't add much to the cost anyway)

Some people cheap out on the case and the power supply, which are critical components, and the above build is more expensive than http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1411_1445&products_id=22203

but the quality of product is quite different.

The original I posted with the i7 (or even the i5 I linked substituted) would be a nice build, and get someone (eg pccg) to make it for you.


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## So_Cynical (7 December 2012)

CanOz said:


> MCW, you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject so I'm curious as to your opinion of the Falcon Trading PCs...
> 
> I know they're not cheap, but its just impossible to get something decent built here.
> 
> CanOz




Falcon trading PC is just a made up name...the specs are very very high end and over the top considering that the main point of difference for a trading PC would be the ability to run multiple displays and that is pretty much the job of the video card.


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## CanOz (8 December 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> Falcon trading PC is just a made up name...the specs are very very high end and over the top considering that the main point of difference for a trading PC would be the ability to run multiple displays and that is pretty much the job of the video card.



.

Lol...these guys actually supply prop shops, banks, funds, etc.

I currently have two cards for four screens, but turning on my PC chews up memory.

Some guys actually need more power SC...they all require it for different purposes.

CanOz


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## So_Cynical (8 December 2012)

CanOz said:


> .
> 
> Lol...these guys actually supply prop shops, banks, funds, etc.
> 
> ...




Ok so you learn something everyday...still a basic 4 monitor card is about 700 bucks and the card isn't required to run 4 screens at 70 frames per second in HD, that's just not necessary for trading, so having 16 gig of system ram just isn't going to make a difference...the i7 probably would help though.


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## CanOz (8 December 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> Ok so you learn something everyday...still a basic 4 monitor card is about 700 bucks and the card isn't required to run 4 screens at 70 frames per second in HD, that's just not necessary for trading, so having 16 gig of system ram just isn't going to make a difference...the i7 probably would help though.




The power is for backtesting strategies, running generic algos, all kinds of stuff. 

Actually NinjaTrader takes a ton of power and running IBs TWS adds to the strain. I just want something at the cutting edge. Thanks to MCW i might buy Aussie made.

CanOz


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## young-gun (9 December 2012)

Alright, so i went shopping today and rounded up all the bits and pieces.

I've installed everything, all plugged in, looking good and ready to go. I was satisfied that everything was where it should be so i went to power up. I was happy at first, LEDS seemed to come on, fans started turning, then about 3 seconds later it turned off. I tried again, 2 seconds later it turned off.

Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? is it a shrot on my motherboard? I've unplugged everything except the power supply to the motherboard, and it's doing the same thing. I thought it may be because I hadn't grounded the motherboard, but I am fairly sure it's grounded through the brass board supports? and there is nothing in the installation manual regarding grounding, and nothing in the pack that allows for it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, i'm tearing my hair out and hoping I haven't shorted something.


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## builder2818 (9 December 2012)

May seem strange, but check that all your connections are plugged in fully, especially the lead that goes into the PSU. I built my PC a few months ago and it would power up for a bit then all of a sudden it would just turn off. Sometimes it wouldn't even start - just power on and off continuously. 

I was having a hardware issue with my GPU that was causing blue screen crashes but after reinstalling drivers for that and ensuring everything was plugged in properly, it hasn't turned off on me since July now.

Good luck.


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## young-gun (9 December 2012)

builder2818 said:


> May seem strange, but check that all your connections are plugged in fully, especially the lead that goes into the PSU. I built my PC a few months ago and it would power up for a bit then all of a sudden it would just turn off. Sometimes it wouldn't even start - just power on and off continuously.
> 
> I was having a hardware issue with my GPU that was causing blue screen crashes but after reinstalling drivers for that and ensuring everything was plugged in properly, it hasn't turned off on me since July now.
> 
> Good luck.




Ill have to pull it apart and take a look. funny you should say that, whoever crimped the cables into the power supply plugs for the hard drives over crimped one of the terminals and the wires just fell out the back(broke clean off!). I just put a BP connector on it and bypassed that plug, but may be similar issues throughout.


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## medicowallet (9 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> Alright, so i went shopping today and rounded up all the bits and pieces.
> 
> I've installed everything, all plugged in, looking good and ready to go. I was satisfied that everything was where it should be so i went to power up. I was happy at first, LEDS seemed to come on, fans started turning, then about 3 seconds later it turned off. I tried again, 2 seconds later it turned off.
> 
> ...




Was this an Antec PSU?? Because it could well be a PSU issue... be careful with electrical stuff!

Do you have both the 24 pin and 4 pin connectors to the motherboard?

Are your case connectors to the motherboard the correct orientation?  (although iirc the more modern boards are not as unforgiving)

Try one stick of ram only.. with computers, in my experience in building them the ram is the most flaky bit with a new build (memtest is a program u can use to test the second stick if it works with one stick)

NOTE: it can be difficult and dangerous to troubleshoot without knowing what board you have, because there may be slight requirement differences eg most boards require 20/24 pin power connector plus 4 pin connector for extra power.


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## young-gun (10 December 2012)

medicowallet said:


> Was this an Antec PSU?? Because it could well be a PSU issue... be careful with electrical stuff!
> 
> Do you have both the 24 pin and 4 pin connectors to the motherboard?
> 
> ...




PSU is a thermaltake(came with the case) 500w. Definitely correct connections to the motherboard(unless they were wired incorrectly from the start, may have to check that...) It's 2 separate plugs, one 20 pin and one 4 pin, but they join into one 24 plug in the one position on the mobo. 

There is another 12v ATX 4 pin plug on the mobo, however it doesn't appear to have a feed for this coming from the PSU. I'll try removing and swapping ram when i get home this arvo and give it a once over again. Failing that it's back to the store for me.

Cheers.


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## medicowallet (10 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> PSU is a thermaltake(came with the case) 500w. Definitely correct connections to the motherboard(unless they were wired incorrectly from the start, may have to check that...) It's 2 separate plugs, one 20 pin and one 4 pin, but they join into one 24 plug in the one position on the mobo.
> 
> There is another 12v ATX 4 pin plug on the mobo, however it doesn't appear to have a feed for this coming from the PSU. I'll try removing and swapping ram when i get home this arvo and give it a once over again. Failing that it's back to the store for me.
> 
> Cheers.




I'd say it is underpowered due to the lack of the 4 pin.


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## young-gun (10 December 2012)

medicowallet said:


> I'd say it is underpowered due to the lack of the 4 pin.




Bang on. The cable that was meant to feed the secondary ATX 4 pin was fitted with a 6 pin. being my first time I just assumed it was meant to be without the second ATX plug. I fixed it up and it's now in the correct 4 pin plug and started first time

Thanks for the help, going to go load windows etc and get it set up now.

Cheers


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## CanOz (10 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> Bang on. The cable that was meant to feed the secondary ATX 4 pin was fitted with a 6 pin. being my first time I just assumed it was meant to be without the second ATX plug. I fixed it up and it's now in the correct 4 pin plug and started first time
> 
> Thanks for the help, going to go load windows etc and get it set up now.
> 
> Cheers




Ya got a love it when ya get past stuff like this...

CanOz


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## young-gun (11 December 2012)

CanOz said:


> Ya got a love it when ya get past stuff like this...
> 
> CanOz





haha you're telling me...Now I've been sitting here for an hour trying to work out why windows won't find my wireless network, until i finally realise my mother board didn't come standard with a network card...idiot


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## CanOz (11 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> haha you're telling me...Now I've been sitting here for an hour trying to work out why windows won't find my wireless network, until i finally realise my mother board didn't come standard with a network card...idiot




LOL, that sucks!

I think i will just spend the money and get the best...Can't be arsed with this muckin around. 

CanOz


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## young-gun (11 December 2012)

CanOz said:


> LOL, that sucks!
> 
> I think i will just spend the money and get the best...Can't be arsed with this muckin around.
> 
> CanOz



From here on I will always build my own. I quite enjoy learning new things, and it was quite fun. My next one will go much smoother...I hope.


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## CanOz (11 December 2012)

young-gun said:


> From here on I will always build my own. I quite enjoy learning new things, and it was quite fun. My next one will go much smoother...I hope.




You want to build one for me?


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## waza1960 (11 December 2012)

> haha you're telling me...Now I've been sitting here for an hour trying to work out why windows won't find my wireless network, until i finally realise my mother board didn't come standard with a network card...idiot




 Whats the model number of your motherboard ?


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## young-gun (13 December 2012)

waza1960 said:


> Whats the model number of your motherboard ?




http://www.computeralliance.com.au/gigabyte-s1155-atx-ga-z77-d3h-motherboard

I ended up getting a 300mb/s asus card for $40, just arrived and installed, good to go


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