# Traders Circle - Options Trading Course



## cashnet

Hi,

I recently attended a free seminar for Traders Circle  and it sounds interesting. I already have a portfolio of shares and wish to trade options as well however I have very little knowledge in the area.

Has anyone completed this course and found it useful? Or was it a waste of money?

Honest feedback would be most appreciated because the course is approximately $5000.

Yours sincerely,

Chris


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## wayneL

cashnet said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently attended a free seminar for Traders Circle  and it sounds interesting. I already have a portfolio of shares and wish to trade options as well however I have very little knowledge in the area.
> 
> Has anyone completed this course and found it useful? Or was it a waste of money?
> 
> Honest feedback would be most appreciated because the course is approximately $5000.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> Chris




Option seminars are just fantastic, especially those expensive ones. They will most certainly make a big difference...




















.... to the lives of the bandits running them.

Go to ASF bookshop (link on the homepage) and buy for $100 or so, this book ==>> Options as a Strategic Investment by Lawrence McMillan.

It will keep you quiet for a while and you'll actually learn about options.


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## DennisTheTrader

cashnet said:


> Hi,
> Honest feedback would be most appreciated because the course is approximately $5000.
> Chris




Plenty of free resources on the net. I'd definitely go with that first. 

Since you mentioned you already own shares, do a search for "option covered calls" and read up on that strategy. Its relatively simple to learn and apply if it interests you.


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## kav

I also went on one of these free seminars. Has anyone done the course and been rewarded? They state an 80% success rate.

I currently buy shares but have an interest in options but no time to trade on my own. Can anyone suggest another strategy if this course isn't beneficial?


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## mazzatelli1000

kav said:


> I also went on one of these free seminars. Has anyone done the course and been rewarded? They state an 80% success rate.
> 
> I currently buy shares but have an interest in options but no time to trade on my own. Can anyone suggest another strategy if this course isn't beneficial?




Why do people always keep asking these questions without doing their own research on this forum? This question has been raised many many many times and answered.

No the seminar will not help you!!

For books and resources to look at before trading options, sift through this thread
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12649

After gaining a solid foundation of options, then paper trade, back test strategies and live test with very little money. 

Good luck


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## mazzatelli1000

Ah I have just run into some folk who participate in this
I have also concluded that there is an ASF member mentored by this group.

They all sound the same: know it all, very stubborn. Pity since these people have been swayed and only want to learn some genuine material.

Funny how the testimonials for these sorts of groups always have people who have hardly/never traded or have just begun the course sing the praises. Very similar to TI

Apparently they have ex fund managers in-charge of this operation. 

On their testimonials page, there are two gentleman who claim they can make $30k a month with an "ordinary" bank account. I know traders who can pull these sorts of returns - but they are absolute guns and operate in the HF industry, and their bank is not ordinary [I am assuming ordinary = $100k or less which is quite generous]

Beware and DYOR!!


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## wayneL

mazzatelli1000 said:


> Ah I have just run into some folk who participate in this
> *I have also concluded that there is an ASF member mentored by this group.
> *
> They all sound the same: know it all, very stubborn. Pity since these people have been swayed and only want to learn some genuine material.
> 
> Funny how the testimonials for these sorts of groups always have people who have hardly/never traded or have just begun the course sing the praises. Very similar to TI
> 
> Apparently they have ex fund managers in-charge of this operation.
> 
> On their testimonials page, there are two gentleman who claim they can make $30k a month with an "ordinary" bank account. I know traders who can pull these sorts of returns - but they are absolute guns and operate in the HF industry, and their bank is not ordinary [I am assuming ordinary = $100k or less which is quite generous]
> 
> Beware and DYOR!!




Mazza, said trader has admitted to being "mentored" by TC on his blog.

All I can say is "good luck", he'll need it.

(of course, we're just jealous, trying to steal the dream etc)


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## cutz

Geez, 

You guys have got me wondering who it is.


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## mazzatelli1000

wayneL said:


> Mazza, said trader has admitted to being "mentored" by TC on his blog.
> 
> All I can say is "good luck", he'll need it.
> 
> (of course, we're just jealous, trying to steal the dream etc)




Ahh was a good guess then. The folk I were speaking to described the exact same positions as that trader. I played dumb, lost the will to argue anymore.

Of course we are jealous, what would we know?


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## recession-proof

Choice has just published an article about these free options seminars - including Traders Circle - check it out on the Choice website (it's a free article and you can add comments)


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## Hannan

*Traders Circle*

Hi,

I am a beginner in trading and have started trading a little in stocks but am interested in finding out more about CFD's and Options. I have been to the free seminars with ASR and Traders Circle and am thinking of doing the 2 day workshop with Traders Circle which charged $997. 

I would love some feedback on whether anyone knows if it's useful or has attended or if I could find the same information in books.

Any replies would be appreciated.


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## cutz

*Re: Traders Circle*



Hannan said:


> I would love some feedback on whether anyone knows if it's useful or has attended or if I could find the same information in books.




Hi,

I've never attended a seminar so I can't offer any comments but suggest following the advice made by poster no 12.

Go to the choice website, then from within the website search for the seminar/product in question, 

Some interesting reading indeed.


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## builder2818

Don't waste your money going to any of these shonky seminars and joining their courses. You can get so much information for free online including all these courses you pay thousands for. I don't know if I am allowed to post on here, but I can tell you where to get heaps of stuff for free - more videos and books then you could ever handle. It's not going to make you any better of a trader. As someone said earlier...learn what you need to know then start practising.

Most stuff you see for sale for these outrageous prices is just rehashed garbage surrounded by clever marketing and false promises.


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## brty

> They state an 80% success rate.
> 
> Can anyone suggest another strategy if this course isn't beneficial?




How often does this come up?? People don't want to do the work for themselves.

OK, here is a "system" that has an 80% success rate (defined as wins as a percentage of total trades), I will have to charge several thousand dollars or you wont believe me.

Sell call and put options that are 2 standard deviations away from the current price that are 4-6 weeks until expiry. Simple, that will be thousands thanks...














Risk???













Don't worry about it, it has a high win rate!!!


brty


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## brty

I forgot to add this bit.....



brty


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## wayneL

brty said:


> How often does this come up?? People don't want to do the work for themselves.
> 
> OK, here is a "system" that has an 80% success rate (defined as wins as a percentage of total trades), I will have to charge several thousand dollars or you wont believe me.
> 
> Sell call and put options that are 2 standard deviations away from the current price that are 4-6 weeks until expiry. Simple, that will be thousands thanks...
> 
> Risk???
> 
> Don't worry about it, it has a high win rate!!!
> brty




Exactly.

They'll be pushing put spreads no doubt.

Nooooobs fall for the high win rate without realizing it is irrelevant.


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## mazzatelli

brty said:


> Don't worry about it, it has a high win rate!!!
> brty




But wait...
Don't listen to this loser - because there are special adjustment strategies and managing losses, which is shown on a step by step basis by the mentor.

Furthermore, there are simple chart setups that will enhance the likelihood of the strikes not being touched.

All this, by joining the one-on-one mentoring, where your trading plan will be developed and you have access to the mentor all the time.

Why not spend a few grand, when the possibilities are limitless?
:


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## zipzap

Agree, the 80% success rate they quote is the number of people they convert from the free seminar to the paid seminar. There are lots of good options sources. I don't know many successful options traders through, it's pretty hard on the Aussie market for the following reasons:

High spreads favour market makers who are VERY sophisticated traders and have spent a LOT of time, money and effort to setup their operation. These guys are guns, very experienced and take the opposite side to your orders. You are a price taker. It's a zero sum game and I reckon 90% of the profits go to brokers and market makers.

Often market makers pull the spread in very volatile markets meaning you cannot enter or close a position.

options will only profit is your view is correct.

High commissions, except with IB.

High complexity

Timing is all important

No matter what the strategy there is always a trade off.


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## Ardyne

Q.How many single digit posters does it take to keep a thread going ? .

A. Depends on how many are being paid to do so.

Cant we just delete this long winded add?


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## Grinder

I second that.


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## Garpal Gumnut

*Re: Traders Circle*



cashnet said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently attended a free seminar for Traders Circle  and it sounds interesting. I already have a portfolio of shares and wish to trade options as well however I have very little knowledge in the area.
> 
> Has anyone completed this course and found it useful? Or was it a waste of money?
> 
> Honest feedback would be most appreciated because the course is approximately $5000.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> Chris






kav said:


> I also went on one of these free seminars. Has anyone done the course and been rewarded? They state an 80% success rate.
> 
> I currently buy shares but have an interest in options but no time to trade on my own. Can anyone suggest another strategy if this course isn't beneficial?






recession-proof said:


> Choice has just published an article about these free options seminars - including Traders Circle - check it out on the Choice website (it's a free article and you can add comments)






Hannan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a beginner in trading and have started trading a little in stocks but am interested in finding out more about CFD's and Options. I have been to the free seminars with ASR and Traders Circle and am thinking of doing the 2 day workshop with Traders Circle which charged $997.
> 
> I would love some feedback on whether anyone knows if it's useful or has attended or if I could find the same information in books.
> 
> Any replies would be appreciated.




I know nothing about options and little about traders circle, but the above four posts have a commonality.

1.    They were all, over the last three years, written by folk who have had between one and three posts in total on ASF.

2.    The English expression and syntax used is what a Prof of English Literature mate of mine calls jock strap jinglish, usually written by a Y11 dropout or a Financial adviser or Spruiker whose parents could afford $40-50000 for confinement at a boarding school through Y11 and 12. A read through real estate English in the newspaper ads of a Saturday will give you an idea of what I mean.

3.     All appear clueless, or perhaps have some secondary gain from their posts.

4.     All would benefit from clicking on wayneL 's posts on options in ASF, , downloading the lot , and spending some time with a translator reading and learning the pearls within.   


gg


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## paulchow2k

*Re: Traders Circle*

Not sure about Options but at this years melbourne traders and investors expo, the flavor of the year seems to be FX. There is even a guy who wrote a book on $1000 to $1 Mil in 80 days. Happy to give him $1 and get him to turn it into $1000 though...

I can't wait to see what they have for next year. CFDs/Commodities/ES? Just goes around doesn't it?

Paul


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## Paulo30

*Re: Traders Circle*

I know this was posted a while back.. but thought it my duty to inform you that the group Traders Circle is a waste of money. It was in my case anyhow. Fortunately it did force me to learn for myself, which has paid off several years later.

The group preys mainly on newbies with no experience in shares, options or trading. 

They then charge around 1k initially (basic trading with some Tony Robbins type motivation thrown in), and further courses (around 3k) for "advanced methods".. at the end of the course the newbie is virtually forced to use Traders Circle's own broker (due to the complicated margin + options requirements), and also subscribe to Carlo's lousy signals service (for a modest $200? per month).. all of which a kindergarten student could probably predict better.

Traders Circle do great marketing and sales.. they just have no more of an idea about trading and mentoring than anyone else at your local pub. ( Esp. without a 10k price tag to support 30 staff and Carlo there).

The mentoring consists of technical analysis (basics from any Trading 101 book), some very rudimentary fundamentals (comparing PE of companies), and then picking an options strategy to go with it (again found in any Options 101 book).
You then join their paid monthly subscription to use their online tools (PE data, charts) and get the amazing trade alerts.

There is nothing Traders Circle offer that can't be found for under $100 in a bookstore, and by setting up your own broker.. or starting a demo account first, and sourcing your own charting and data tools. You might even be 30K better off if you give them a miss.

My advice instead, from someone who has paid a lot previously in courses, and now trades easily & successfully part-time from their own efforts, would be to take a year or two to study, learn the ropes with a demo account, and come up with your own system that suits YOU. There is no group or other person that can impart experience onto you.




Hannan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a beginner in trading and have started trading a little in stocks but am interested in finding out more about CFD's and Options. I have been to the free seminars with ASR and Traders Circle and am thinking of doing the 2 day workshop with Traders Circle which charged $997.
> 
> I would love some feedback on whether anyone knows if it's useful or has attended or if I could find the same information in books.
> 
> Any replies would be appreciated.


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## danbradster

recession-proof said:


> Choice has just published an article about these free options seminars - including Traders Circle - check it out on the Choice website (it's a free article and you can add comments)




"They clarified that profits are before costs described in the company's financial services guide [...] and before losses from unsuccessful trades."

Profit is before losses from unsuccessful trades?  Wow...sounds like revenue to me, not profit.


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## 1337trader

Stay away from this company (and most others). I know someone that went through the course, paid for their "recommandations by market expert" of credit spread that keeps getting rolled every month so it looks nice on paper (until you take into account all the previous losses) which racks up massive brokerage (I was told it was $100+ PER LEG - I think commsec only charges $29).

I beleive their office is on the Ernst and Young building, same as Hometrader. Posing as 'proffessionals' to suck money off suckers.


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## operandi

If you building a house would u get a marketeer to be ur bricklayer? Then why would get a marketeer to be ur trader? ahh thats right, 3 years i was shoveling sh*t  and then i attended a shiny course on how to buy and sell those market things and now i make consistent and my wife has sex with me and my dog loves me.ahhhh markets you will never fail me, thank you oh scribe of the markets for ur shiny circly folder


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## Gnarli

What can I say. I went through the courses eyes wide open. I needed real world know how and application to explain and demystify trading, although I did know full well I needed to pay for the experience. Am I better off for it compared to the "self made traders"? To be honest I don't know, however do I care - no...


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## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Traders Circle*



paulchow2k said:


> Not sure about Options but at this years melbourne traders and investors expo, the flavor of the year seems to be FX. There is even a guy who wrote a book on $1000 to $1 Mil in 80 days. Happy to give him $1 and get him to turn it into $1000 though...
> 
> I can't wait to see what they have for next year. CFDs/Commodities/ES? Just goes around doesn't it?
> 
> Paul




I hate to see this, after 5 years trading in FX all I can say is it freakin hard! not the place for any new starter to dump 20k+ and see what trading is all about.... fast way to get taken to the cleaners... these idiots out there with wonder books are all BullS%$t artists.


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## >Apocalypto<

Gnarli said:


> What can I say. I went through the courses eyes wide open. I needed real world know how and application to explain and demystify trading, although I did know full well I needed to pay for the experience. Am I better off for it compared to the "self made traders"? To be honest I don't know, however do I care - no...




and the meaning of this post is?


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## susie19

>Apocalypto< said:


> and the meaning of this post is?




well, 2.5 years later and nothing really changes. Traders Circle still in existence (I sat in on their free "webinar" but gave a resounding "No" to anything beyond that...funny how the voice of the follow-up TC rep for "totally honest appraisal from me" got more strident and high-pitched, the longer I "no'ed"..but anyway. They have to live too, i guess). But in answer to the question posed re GNARLI's post - it means nothing - except maybe that he/she possibly has more money than sense..?


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## tomryan161090

*Traders Circle Scam?*

Hi All, 
I don't remember how they got my details but I keep getting calls from a Melbourne based company Traders Circle, I am interested in learning about the markets and markets analysis, so I may have signed up for some free eBook or something but now I'm getting lots of hard sell style phone calls offering me all sort of education packages and seminars from them for large $$$. 

Does anyone have any experience with them? to me using these cold call tactics and and the whole seminar kind of thing seems to scream scam, but if other people have done business with them in the past and liked it. I would be willing to do the same.

Again I'm new to this world of trading so I have no idea if this is a normal kind of marketing technique for these kind of companies or not!


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## skyQuake

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



tomryan161090 said:


> Hi All,
> I don't remember how they got my details but I keep getting calls from a Melbourne based company Traders Circle, I am interested in learning about the markets and markets analysis, so I may have signed up for some free eBook or something but now I'm getting lots of hard sell style phone calls offering me all sort of education packages and seminars from them for large $$$.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with them? to me using these cold call tactics and and the whole seminar kind of thing seems to scream scam, but if other people have done business with them in the past and liked it. I would be willing to do the same.
> 
> Again I'm new to this world of trading so I have no idea if this is a normal kind of marketing technique for these kind of companies or not!




Gee these professional traders are nice. Instead of making $$$ or sipping cocktails on tropical beaches they employ cold callers do desperately find random folks to impart their money making wisdom.

I hope one day I too will subscribe to such lofty ideals


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## tomryan161090

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



skyQuake said:


> Gee these professional traders are nice. Instead of making $$$ or sipping cocktails on tropical beaches they employ cold callers do desperately find random folks to impart their money making wisdom.
> 
> I hope one day I too will subscribe to such lofty ideals




Sorry i'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not? Are you saying you have dealt with them before?


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## sinner

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



tomryan161090 said:


> Sorry i'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not? Are you saying you have dealt with them before?




He's being sarcastic, 

Scroll up, look at previous posts in the thread.


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## tomryan161090

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



sinner said:


> He's being sarcastic,
> 
> Scroll up, look at previous posts in the thread.




Thanks for the verification, I have just gone through the thread and noticed the negative feedback. Shame, I am very keen to start learning how to read market movements. Not sure what methods of trading I want to use yet, Im thinking binary options, short term contracts maybe an hour at a time. All I know is I want to learn how to read a market trend first then play with a little bit of money and put my learning into practice. Suddenly I get a call from them and it looked like a good opportunity to learn. But I will be avoiding them like the plague now!


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## sinner

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



tomryan161090 said:


> Thanks for the verification, I have just gone through the thread and noticed the negative feedback. Shame, I am very keen to start learning how to read market movements. Not sure what methods of trading I want to use yet, Im thinking binary options, short term contracts maybe an hour at a time. All I know is I want to learn how to read a market trend first then play with a little bit of money and put my learning into practice. Suddenly I get a call from them and it looked like a good opportunity to learn. But I will be avoiding them like the plague now!




This forum is a great platform to discover resources and so on. There's a subforum dedicated to trading strategies  My advice would be to read a lot and worry about the actual execution much much later.


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## TomBlazTrader

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



tomryan161090 said:


> Thanks for the verification, I have just gone through the thread and noticed the negative feedback. Shame, I am very keen to start learning how to read market movements. Not sure what methods of trading I want to use yet, Im thinking binary options, short term contracts maybe an hour at a time. All I know is I want to learn how to read a market trend first then play with a little bit of money and put my learning into practice. Suddenly I get a call from them and it looked like a good opportunity to learn. But I will be avoiding them like the plague now!




I have been a Traders Circle member for almost a year now and really appreciate the service they offer.  I am a bit puzzled after reading this thread because what is written here does not come close to what my experiences with Traders Circle have been.

Like you I am also a beginner to trading but have been investing for a few years and was interested in learning technical principles and analysis.  I am the type of person who gets more from a classroom based environment so just reading trading based materiel via books or the internet was not best for me so I did the course.

I have used what they have taught to shape my own personal trading method so I don't rely on the recommendations they put out.  I agree these can become costly and are better for those with large trading banks.  However, the more basic trading strategies they teach in the first two weekends work for me as stated most of the time and I would agree and testify to a plus 50% success rate and I can see how 70% success could be achieved with experience.  They have continued support, are continually adding new tools to help make trading simpler and are very service focused which makes them great to deal with and be part of.

Some of the other people I met through the course I know who have had a few losses and have stopped trading.  This I think as a beginner and as an inexperienced trader is part of the learning process it just depends if you are able to handle those initial losses.  Sorry if I sound like I'm making excuses here but I think you just can not learn as much as you could loosing with real money compared to paper trading for example.

The only other advice I would give is that again if you are a novice, the first two weekends is all you initially need.  They do offer an advanced course which I did and the strategies are interesting but I found that there is more than enough covered in the first two weekends to keep you busy and you would want to have a pretty good understanding of those methods before you introduce more detailed and complex strategies, so for me the advance weekend was a bit of a waist but I will probably do it again in the near future.

I think they have a great team and the ongoing support which includes no less than three weekly online trade groups is excellent to get an experienced perspective of what is going on in the market as well as advice on existing and potential trades.  They are also not shy to tell you if you are making errors and to give you a bit of a pasting if you don't follow the trading rules.  This I find very refreshing.

Personally, I highly recommenced these guys especially if you feel a course to teach you technical and option trading principles is what you need.  I would be flabbergasted if Traders Circle turned out to just be a scam and that all who did the course are just doomed to lose all their hard earned.


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## cynic

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



TomBlazTrader said:


> ...  However, the more basic trading strategies they teach in the first two weekends work for me as stated most of the time and I would agree and testify to a plus 50% success rate and I can see how 70% success could be achieved with experience...




You seem to be oblivious to the fact that >90% strike rates are easily achievable, with or without the assistance of educators.

With the exception of the two extremes, 0% and 100%, strike rate, when viewed in isolation to the more pertinent factors, says precious little about a trader's profit generation capability.

Are you looking to become financially profitable from your trading? 

If so, then I fear that either the trading education, undertaken by yourself, has failed you, or you have failed the education.


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## minwa

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



cynic said:


> You seem to be oblivious to the fact that >90% strike rates are easily achievable, with or without the assistance of educators.




I am very worried that they are hitting 50%-60%, 70% on rare occasions success rate. I know for a fact most of their trades are 1:5 trades. 20c credit/debit on 1 dollar wide strike spreads. Let's use "middle ground" 60%




This can be achieved with their method..trendline + stochastic + RSI  ! And yes 20% position size is what they teach lol..after all the trade can be "repaired" (extra brokerage for them of course..oh wait did you know if you do their course they pressure you to use their overpriced full service brokerage because they trick newbies into thinking their strategies can only be executed by their own broker?  , and of course pay 300+ per month for their recommandation to you to rack up brokerage for them) My god I drank from this tainted well thinking it was holy grail in the past.


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## hamli

I can see how this goes...

They will spend the first couple of hours telling you how special you are, stroke your ego and tell you to ignore all the skeptics out there.

Following this, they will explain to you what support and resistance is. Then they will provide you with some dictionary meaning of a covered call and naked put.

They will stroke your ego a bit more, try upsell some more products such as managed funds, real estate etc eating up the hours you've paid to learn.

By the time you have finished the course, you will eagerly await the trades they put on, and not be able to trade on your own.

You would not have learnt how to manage volatility risk, delta risk and gamma risk. You would not have learnt how to optimise your trades .... 

And guess what? You are now down a few hundred- few thousand dollars. Motto: There is no miracle classes that will get you to where you think you want to go. Free resources online, and if you can't figure it out, I can guarantee you that a class wont change that.

I'm sick of these gammon financial education classes. In fact I came across the thread "The Covered Call Panacea Redux" and tried to add to it, but my post was taken to be a real add and taken down.

Rage rage rage... that's what spam mail does to me.


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## TomBlazTrader

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



cynic said:


> You seem to be oblivious to the fact that >90% strike rates are easily achievable, with or without the assistance of educators.
> 
> With the exception of the two extremes, 0% and 100%, strike rate, when viewed in isolation to the more pertinent factors, says precious little about a trader's profit generation capability.
> 
> Are you looking to become financially profitable from your trading?
> 
> If so, then I fear that either the trading education, undertaken by yourself, has failed you, or you have failed the education.




I have been live trading since August 2015 and am in an profitable position with the help of Traders Circle but do you seriously expect a new trader to achieve 90% plus success rate??

Like I said in my original post, I can see how with experience 70% success is achievable.  90% would be awesome... maybe one day.  In saying that I take your point that a successful trade rate is not what makes you a profitable trader, in my experience it is what returns are achieved in the successful trades compared to the losing ones and how a losing trade is managed and that does not mean an expensive repair strategy but starts with tight stops where possible. 

Also as I stated, I wanted to be educated by a course based platform and from me it was a positive experience with Traders Circle. 

(Just to clarify,  I am talking about the Melbourne based Traders Circle a part of OzFinancial.)


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## TomBlazTrader

hamli said:


> I can see how this goes...
> 
> They will spend the first couple of hours telling you how special you are, stroke your ego and tell you to ignore all the skeptics out there.
> 
> Following this, they will explain to you what support and resistance is. Then they will provide you with some dictionary meaning of a covered call and naked put.
> 
> They will stroke your ego a bit more, try upsell some more products such as managed funds, real estate etc eating up the hours you've paid to learn.
> 
> By the time you have finished the course, you will eagerly await the trades they put on, and not be able to trade on your own.
> 
> You would not have learnt how to manage volatility risk, delta risk and gamma risk. You would not have learnt how to optimise your trades ....
> 
> And guess what? You are now down a few hundred- few thousand dollars. Motto: There is no miracle classes that will get you to where you think you want to go. Free resources online, and if you can't figure it out, I can guarantee you that a class wont change that.
> 
> I'm sick of these gammon financial education classes. In fact I came across the thread "The Covered Call Panacea Redux" and tried to add to it, but my post was taken to be a real add and taken down.
> 
> Rage rage rage... that's what spam mail does to me.





Hi Hamli,

Sorry to disappoint you but my experience with Traders Circle is nothing like you described here.  

For me Traders Circle really do want to help those who choose to give trading a go to be successful.  They focus a lot on education and also continuing that educational support.  It is not just recommendations but about finding and managing the trades yourself with the assistance of an experienced adviser.  I would say the recommendations make up maybe 10% of the core product they offer.  Also, no one forces you to do the recommendations, personally I have not done any but focus on finding my own trades.  When needed the advisers are there to help and in my opinion are great at doing so.


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## cynic

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



TomBlazTrader said:


> I have been live trading since August 2015 and am in an profitable position with the help of Traders Circle but do you seriously expect a new trader to achieve 90% plus success rate??
> 
> Like I said in my original post, I can see how with experience 70% success is achievable.  90% would be awesome... maybe one day.  In saying that I take your point that a successful trade rate is not what makes you a profitable trader, in my experience it is what returns are achieved in the successful trades compared to the losing ones and how a losing trade is managed and that does not mean an expensive repair strategy but starts with tight stops where possible.
> 
> Also as I stated, I wanted to be educated by a course based platform and from me it was a positive experience with Traders Circle.
> 
> (Just to clarify,  I am talking about the Melbourne based Traders Circle a part of OzFinancial.)




Live trading since Aug 2015! Wow!  That's approximately 9 or 10 months ! Not even an entire year!

And yet somehow you manage to perpetuate the, all too common, newbie mistake, of confusing increased success rate with increased profitability!


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## TomBlazTrader

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



minwa said:


> I am very worried that they are hitting 50%-60%, 70% on rare occasions success rate. I know for a fact most of their trades are 1:5 trades. 20c credit/debit on 1 dollar wide strike spreads. Let's use "middle ground" 60%
> 
> View attachment 66794
> 
> 
> This can be achieved with their method..trendline + stochastic + RSI  ! And yes 20% position size is what they teach lol..after all the trade can be "repaired" (extra brokerage for them of course..oh wait did you know if you do their course they pressure you to use their overpriced full service brokerage because they trick newbies into thinking their strategies can only be executed by their own broker?  , and of course pay 300+ per month for their recommandation to you to rack up brokerage for them) My god I drank from this tainted well thinking it was holy grail in the past.




Again, this does not resemble my experience with Traders Circle / Oz Financial.  Maybe there are better trading methods and platforms out there that you are fortunate enough to know but for me Traders Circle has been very beneficial and I appreciate the continued support and effort they put into educating us 'newbies'.

I have never experienced the pressure you described and like I mentioned before the recommendations are not mandatory.  I for example have never traded one of the recommendations.


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## TomBlazTrader

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



cynic said:


> Live trading since Aug 2015! Wow!  That's approximately 9 or 10 months ! Not even an entire year!
> 
> And yet somehow you manage to perpetuate the, all too common, newbie mistake, of confusing increased success rate with increased profitability!




Well maybe one i'll find out.


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## cynic

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



TomBlazTrader said:


> Again, this does not resemble my experience with Traders Circle / Oz Financial.
> ....
> I have never experienced the pressure you described and like I mentioned before the recommendations are not mandatory.  I for example have never traded one of the recommendations.




Would that be because your business relationship with them is somewhat different to that of their typical clients?


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## Porper

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



cynic said:


> Would that be because your business relationship with them is somewhat different to that of their typical clients?




Nail and head come to mind. Loads of negatives and only 1 new member that constantly tries to convince people they are great...odd that.


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## cynic

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



Porper said:


> Nail and head come to mind. Loads of negatives and only 1 new member that constantly tries to convince people they are great...odd that.




Ofttimes that does indeed turn out to be the case, and scepticism is certainly well advised in such cases.

Having said that, another possibility does spring to mind. 

People do at times become enamoured with their dreams, making them more susceptible to the marketing of dreams by those unscrupulously merchandising such products.

As the dream is usually more attractive than the reality, some will, in a vain effort to hold the dream in place, continue, for a time, to defend the virtues of the "merchandise" and the "merchants" rather than confront the less palatable reality.


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## minwa

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



TomBlazTrader said:


> I have been live trading since August 2015 and am in an profitable position with the help of Traders Circle but do you seriously expect a new trader to achieve 90% plus success rate??
> 
> Like I said in my original post, I can see how with experience 70% success is achievable.  90% would be awesome... maybe one day.  In saying that I take your point that a successful trade rate is not what makes you a profitable trader, in my experience it is what returns are achieved in the successful trades compared to the losing ones and how a losing trade is managed and that does not mean an expensive repair strategy but starts with tight stops where possible.




So you paid 5k+ and you came out measuring trades by success rate until you told in a free forum that return, and not success rate, is important ? 

You also do not need any experience to construct a 90% plus success rate strategy. Simply sell a far out of the money call/put or spread. Your options knowledge is even worse than TastyTraders, and that's saying a lot, considering you paid $5k+ for it and those are free.

Also are you still using stochastic and RSI ? Did you need to pay $5k for them to teach you that touching lower boundary is oversold ?


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## TomBlazTrader

*Re: Traders Circle Scam?*



cynic said:


> Would that be because your business relationship with them is somewhat different to that of their typical clients?




No it is not, I am just a happy Traders Circle client / customer.

Now I take the point that there is plenty of info available online and in books but I wanted a classroom based environment where I was taught by experienced traders.  Maybe you don't agree with the methods they teach or you believe there are more successful ways to trade but for what they have taught me and the continued effort and support they offer has been great in my opinion and as a result I have been trading with continued success so I don't agree with what some have written here that they are a scam.  For me this is just not a fair description of the company is and the service they offer.

I am sorry if this is hard for some of you to read and I am delighted the some of you have taken so much interest in how I spend my cash but really some of you have to get off your high horses and realise there are people like me who have had little experience in using technical analyse and appreciate a course with continued coaching support while learning which is what Traders Circle do and they do it well.


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## hamli

I wish all those people that went broke off these courses would post too lol.


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## TomBlazTrader

hamli said:


> I wish all those people that went broke off these courses would post too lol.




I am not saying that there are not questionable courses out there, I am just saying that from my experience Traders Circle is not one of them.

Also, I am not trying to sell what Traders Circle have to offer and I would be the first to say that doing the course does not mean you would automatically be successful or ever successful at trading but they definitely do a good job educating and supporting new traders and have a good team in place so I am happy to recommend them to whoever is looking at doing an options trading based course.  Are there better options out there....?  I don't know, there could be.  I personally am happy for what I have learnt and continue to learn and so for me it has been good value.


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## cynic

TomBlazTrader said:


> I am not saying that there are not questionable courses out there, I am just saying that from my experience Traders Circle is not one of them.
> 
> Also, I am not trying to sell what Traders Circle have to offer and I would be the first to say that doing the course does not mean you would automatically be successful or ever successful at trading but they definitely do a good job educating and supporting new traders and have a good team in place so I am happy to recommend them to whoever is looking at doing an options trading based course.  Are there better options out there....?  I don't know, there could be.  I personally am happy for what I have learnt and continue to learn and so for me it has been good value.



When I saw a first time post praising this course, my first thought was "here we go again!". Certain comments, subsequent to your first post, have alerted me to the possibility that you are indeed a real customer, and not a shameless promoter as I initially suspected.

In relation to your confidence in the integrity of the course and its offerings, does the name Carlo Castellano ring any bells?

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2004-releases/04-176-asic-acts-against-option-trading-seminars/

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/carlo-castellano-melbourne-victoria-c422855.html


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## Porper

cynic said:


> When I saw a first time post praising this course, my first thought was "here we go again!". Certain comments, subsequent to your first post, have alerted me to the possibility that you are indeed a real customer, and not a shameless promoter as I initially suspected.
> 
> In relation to your confidence in the integrity of the course and its offerings, does the name Carlo Castellano ring any bells?
> 
> http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2004-releases/04-176-asic-acts-against-option-trading-seminars/
> 
> http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/carlo-castellano-melbourne-victoria-c422855.html




You are much more trusting than me Cynic.

Look how many times he uses "Traders Circle" in his answers. I.M.O he is just trawling. It's ok though as he is highlighting all the negativity surrounding this company which is great for potential clients. Hopefully they will look at the many negative posts, 1 positive and draw their own conclusions.


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## TomBlazTrader

Porper said:


> You are much more trusting than me Cynic.
> 
> Look how many times he uses "Traders Circle" in his answers. I.M.O he is just trawling. It's ok though as he is highlighting all the negativity surrounding this company which is great for potential clients. Hopefully they will look at the many negative posts, 1 positive and draw their own conclusions.




The original post was about Traders Circle.  I responded to a recent question where someone who seemed to be in a similar position to me asked if it was worth considering doing the course.  The responses they received seemed general to me in nature and did not reflect my experiences with the course so I just gave my opinion which was true and balanced based again on my experiences with them.


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## TomBlazTrader

cynic said:


> When I saw a first time post praising this course, my first thought was "here we go again!". Certain comments, subsequent to your first post, have alerted me to the possibility that you are indeed a real customer, and not a shameless promoter as I initially suspected.
> 
> In relation to your confidence in the integrity of the course and its offerings, does the name Carlo Castellano ring any bells?
> 
> http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2004-releases/04-176-asic-acts-against-option-trading-seminars/
> 
> http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/carlo-castellano-melbourne-victoria-c422855.html





Thank you for the links and all I can say is that I never heard the get rich quick line from Carlo or Traders Circle.     I don't want to say too much here because again I don't want to sound like I am making excuses and like I am trying to sell their product but I would say that they teach a very Conservative approach to trading and the recommendations they put out reflects this.  The reason why I don't do the recommendations is because I like to be less conservative with my trades and Trades Circle are fine with this and the adviser's help and give guidance and advice when needed.

I would just like to also add that for me they are not known for the recommendations.  It is not like they are putting out recommendations everyday, sometimes it could be once a week or every second week.  Really depends on what they find in the market and if they decide its worth trading.

I am just of the opinion that if you are looking for an options based trading course than they are worth considering as for me they where really and still are really helpful.


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## cynic

TomBlazTrader said:


> Thank you for the links and all I can say is that I never heard the get rich quick line from Carlo or Traders Circle.




Perhaps not those exact words, but do you really believe ASIC's concerns regarding Carlo's conduct were entirely baseless and without foundation?


> I don't want to say too much here because again I don't want to sound like I am making excuses and like I am trying to sell their product but ....




Really?!!

The last time I checked, all of your posts within this forum were made to a solitary thread, namely this one!

To me that says one heck of a lot!


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## minwa

TomBlazTrader said:


> they teach a very Conservative approach to trading and the recommendations they put out reflects this.







What a load of crap. Very conservative but risk up to 20% of your account in a single trade ? 5 bad trades and your out of the game. 

"Take profits regularly", of course, them being the broker the more you trade the more they make since they do not charge by per contract, but per order. Taking partial profits for the low reward to risk spreads they mostly do is absolutely stupid. 

Rule no. 2 says you need bank to buy back positions. You do not need margin to close out positions. What they are saying is have powder for "repairing" trades, ie taking the loss and opening a new one. More brokerage for them of course, again you are charged per order not per contract.

So Blaz how are you doing with stochastic & RSI ?


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## hamli

Rule 1:
Disaster. Way too high.

Rule 2:
Disaster. 4 trades is way too less. Should be aiming for way more if account permits and across different asset classes. You are playing for theta decay, so you want to reduce directional risk.

Rule 4:
How is this actionable? And the reasoning sucks. But I don't disagree with closing out contracts before expiry, but with reference to risk taken, days to expiration and premium collected. But as I said the reasoning provided sucks, and they should at least provide guidelines and provide thorough backtests to support their answer.

But based on their suggestion, a lot of their members would have been wiped out or suffered severely last August and January.

Run away from this course and don't look back.


----------

