# Platinum



## ormond (6 July 2007)

Was wondering if their is a correlation between platinum prices and gold prices?
Also what is the outlook for platinum prices?(Platinum,Palladium,Rhodium)
Any information greatly appreciated.


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## Boyou (7 July 2007)

Hi ...you can keep an eye on the movement of all these metals on this website  
whttp://www.kitco.com/market/

It is one of my "First Sources" for news on Gold and Silver ...Hope it helps.

Cheers Ya'll


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## Joules MM1 (8 July 2007)

ormond said:


> Was wondering if their is a correlation between platinum prices and gold prices?
> Also what is the outlook for platinum prices?(Platinum,Palladium,Rhodium)
> Any information greatly appreciated.




http://www2.barchart.com/mktcom.asp?section=metals

http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/pt/pt.asp

www.advfn.com

http://www.marketcenter.co.uk/futures/metals.action

http://www.nymex.com/index.aspx

some useful sites for you

consider an ETF through a US desk if youre unsure and still need exposure to this metal

one thing you should consider is the industrial side of metals...........for example, silver is an industrial metal, whereas, gold is not so industry hedging, source and delivery requirements, arbitraging and carry-trade all have a weighting on price demand and supply of the underlying price........as such, you should consider price in isolation first and by that I mean, invoke your t/a on the metals price first before considering the (fundamental or otherwise) external movements of other metals and othrr (opinionated) pressures...........

you should consider that what correlations you do find are not supportive of each other and are more likely to be a conincidence versus a tracking of any kind.........by that I am implying that using a correlation is at best temporary and tenuous because no sooner a such an action proved than it falls out of existance.........so, again, measures of demand and supply of the price of the metal itself (not the producation) should be considered in isolation first until a mechanical regime is applied by the whole industry and bourses together (which is highly unlikely).


Joules


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## ormond (13 July 2007)

Thanks for the info Joules mm1.


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## Caliente (13 July 2007)

hi ormond if you're interested in Pt - take a look at GAU. Currently in trading halt. 

Should be proving up a very spiffy little JORC sometime soon in South Africa.

Cheers
-Cali


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## michael_selway (14 July 2007)

Caliente said:


> hi ormond if you're interested in Pt - take a look at GAU. Currently in trading halt.
> 
> Should be proving up a very spiffy little JORC sometime soon in South Africa.
> 
> ...




Dont forget AQP & PLA

thx

MS


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## Captain_Chaza (30 September 2007)

*PLATINUM - Hold on tight*

Has anybody got any good Platinum Shares?

Sometimes the Good Just Get Gooder!

Salute and Gods' speed


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## refined silver (7 February 2008)

Well Platinum goes over $1800, been hitting new records regularly just recently and the last post on this thread is last September - nearly 5 months ago. Talk about overlooked sectors and out of mind, out of sight!!


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## wayneL (7 February 2008)

Yeah it's a pretty thinly traded contract as far as futures go, so off my radar for that reason, but surely there are PL miners about?


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## refined silver (7 February 2008)

wayneL said:


> Yeah it's a pretty thinly traded contract as far as futures go, so off my radar for that reason, but surely there are PL miners about?




Yes there are a few. Here's a good list, but there's more, but pretty thin also considering its worldwide list! Doesn't mean you can't profit though!

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page67?oid=46211&sn=Detail

(Tried to past the whole article but doesn't the stocks table doesn't format properly)


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## ithatheekret (7 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> Well Platinum goes over $1800, been hitting new records regularly just recently and the last post on this thread is last September - nearly 5 months ago. Talk about overlooked sectors and out of mind, out of sight!!





Nah , it's been mentioned heaps cob , just not in this thread , I can trade platty with my GCI a/c ( CFD ) . Not holding any at present , except for a little block of it , which was bought for less than the current gold price . 

If RazPutin runs out I'll sell it to him .............

I reckon anyone with kids and a house/s should own all three precious metals in bullion form . Gold and platinum for trading and you gotta have some silver for luck , well so an old Jewish chap told me once ....... and no he didn't sell it to me

Do other CFDers trade platinum with their a/c's ?


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## refined silver (7 February 2008)

ithatheekret said:


> Nah , it's been mentioned heaps cob , just not in this thread , I can trade platty with my GCI a/c ( CFD ) . Not holding any at present , except for a little block of it , which was bought for less than the current gold price .
> 
> If RazPutin runs out I'll sell it to him .............
> 
> ...




3 PMs?? Better make that 4 with Palladium which used to be 3 times the price of Platinum only a few years ago. 

I don't trade it but do hold a couple of very highly leveraged juniors to the price of PGMs.


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## Temjin (7 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> Well Platinum goes over $1800, been hitting new records regularly just recently and the last post on this thread is last September - nearly 5 months ago. Talk about overlooked sectors and out of mind, out of sight!!




Nah, who would expect the energy crisis in South Africa to emerge so quickly? Doubt anyone predicted such news.  

Regardless, I might buy some platty ETCs from etfsecurities.


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## ithatheekret (7 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> 3 PMs?? Better make that 4 with Palladium which used to be 3 times the price of Platinum only a few years ago.
> 
> I don't trade it but do hold a couple of very highly leveraged juniors to the price of PGMs.




Too right I remember that , those were the days of so what fuel consumption , but they use both in catalytic converters production  , if I remember rightly .

There was another use for palladium in the auto industry , forgotten what it was ...........


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## refined silver (7 February 2008)

ithatheekret said:


> Too right I remember that , those were the days of so what fuel consumption , but they use both in catalytic converters production  , if I remember rightly .
> 
> There was another use for palladium in the auto industry , forgotten what it was ...........




Yes, the major use is catalytic converters, and Pt and Pd are substitutable. Just as Pt got substituted for Pd when Plat was $300/oz and Pd $1000/oz, so its likely to reverse now Pt is $1800/oz and Pd $400/oz. 

Although with the increasing need for green tech, and increasing motor vehicle use in the developing world - India and China, plus power probs in SA who produce most of worlds PGMs (along with Russia) I don't see Plat crashing any time soon. 

I started a Palladium thread with a couple of articles on this. Will add info soon.


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## refined silver (11 February 2008)

Goodbye $1800s, hello $1900s. Another milestone. This electricity problem in SA is much more long term and serious than many people have recognised.

Currently @ $1920


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## Temjin (12 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> Goodbye $1800s, hello $1900s. Another milestone. This electricity problem in SA is much more long term and serious than many people have recognised.
> 
> Currently @ $1920




Yeah, it's crazy if you look at the charts. While the fundamentals are there, I found it hard to buy in such a manic short term phase. It's not according to my rules and I am going to wait when the corrective phase comes in.

I should have added Platinum in my precious metals at the same time when I got my gold/silver.  Grrrr! Patience!


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## refined silver (12 February 2008)

Temjin said:


> Yeah, it's crazy if you look at the charts. While the fundamentals are there, I found it hard to buy in such a manic short term phase. It's not according to my rules and I am going to wait when the corrective phase comes in.
> 
> I should have added Platinum in my precious metals at the same time when I got my gold/silver.  Grrrr! Patience!




Or you could do it my way, own a couple of tiny highly leveraged juniors with large in ground resources. Like a call option which doesn't expire...which is lucky...because they haven't moved at all with this latest surge in the Pt/Pd price .......Yet!


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## refined silver (14 February 2008)

$1,970!!! 

$2,000 anyone? anyone? anyone?


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## refined silver (14 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> Well Platinum goes over $1800, been hitting new records regularly just recently and the last post on this thread is last September - nearly 5 months ago. Talk about overlooked sectors and out of mind, out of sight!!




This was only 7 days ago.


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## Temjin (14 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> $1,970!!!
> 
> $2,000 anyone? anyone? anyone?




Saw that! Crazy!

$2000 is definitely going to be a pyschological resistance. Fundamentally, I have no idea how much premium would the disruption at South Africa would affect the prices. Technically, it's in a manic uptrend and well, I never believed things go up in straight lines. 

Lessons learnt, should have acted as soon as the news were received. Another lesson learnt, opportunity will come around again. hehe


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## refined silver (14 February 2008)

Temjin said:


> Saw that! Crazy!
> 
> $2000 is definitely going to be a pyschological resistance. Fundamentally, I have no idea how much premium would the disruption at South Africa would affect the prices. Technically, it's in a manic uptrend and well, I never believed things go up in straight lines.
> 
> Lessons learnt, should have acted as soon as the news were received. Another lesson learnt, opportunity will come around again. hehe




Well there goes $2,000. Now at $2005 bid/$2015 ask.

I agree, pretty risky now to play it with futures. Usually what goes straight up, comes straight down again, unless there has been a fundamental change to its situation, then it can go up and stay up. I think the SA electricity is a fundamental change, BUT, a big risk is its substitutability with Palladium which is much cheaper at present. I see volatility ahead!


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## refined silver (18 February 2008)

Temjin said:


> Saw that! Crazy!
> 
> $2000 is definitely going to be a pyschological resistance.




$2,100 cracked, now back at $2085! Just keeps going!!!!


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## Temjin (19 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> $2,100 cracked, now back at $2085! Just keeps going!!!!




I given up analysising this already, it's beyond my current skill / knowledge level. 

Let it run through and applaud those who managed to get the bulk of this trend. I will continue to resist the evil greed part of me trying to buy this. Now that's good psychology practice. hehe


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## michael_selway (19 February 2008)

Temjin said:


> I given up analysising this already, it's beyond my current skill / knowledge level.
> 
> Let it run through and applaud those who managed to get the bulk of this trend. I will continue to resist the evil greed part of me trying to buy this. Now that's good psychology practice. hehe




Hi besides AQP & PLA, and other specialist platinum producers?

thx

MS


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## Temjin (19 February 2008)

michael_selway said:


> Hi besides AQP & PLA, and other specialist platinum producers?
> 
> thx
> 
> MS




Can you repeat your question again? I don't get it. Are you asking if there are any other specialist platinum producers?

Here is one neat database that I found on the net. 

http://miningpedia.com/

I'm not sure if the data is completed or valid though.

Edit: oops, only one company listed on pure platinum though. Stillwater Mining Company


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## refined silver (20 February 2008)

refined silver said:


> Yes there are a few. Here's a good list, but there's more, but pretty thin also considering its worldwide list! Doesn't mean you can't profit though!
> 
> http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page67?oid=46211&sn=Detail
> 
> (Tried to past the whole article but doesn't the stocks table doesn't format properly)




Stillwater are Palladium too. The above has a pretty good list. Includes a few non-producers. There are a few other juniors sat on compliant resouces but not mining yet.


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## Temjin (20 February 2008)

Another link.

http://www.miningnerds.com/platinum-group-metal-mining-report-all-countries


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## refined silver (20 February 2008)

Temjin said:


> Another link.
> 
> http://www.miningnerds.com/platinum-group-metal-mining-report-all-countries




Thats a good list, yet has many juniors (a couple I own) which have zero PGMs but on one exploration property once found one rock chip with a trace PGE. And then it also misses out one of my favourite PGM juniors - Platina Resources -(with the appropriate code PGM!). At $1.10 it has a MC of $50m and has 30m oz Pd, 10m oz Au, 4 moz Pt in a JORC resource in Greenland plus 4-5 PGM props in Aus, including one with 2.7moz Pt @2.1g/t in WA.

Not sure how they stick many juniors with zero PGMs in, just a name somewhere in a report that its one of 20 metals they are searching for, and miss out resources like that???


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## michael_selway (20 February 2008)

Temjin said:


> Can you repeat your question again? I don't get it. Are you asking if there are any other specialist platinum producers?
> 
> Here is one neat database that I found on the net.
> 
> ...




Hi yep that is what i mean sorry for the typo's etc

Btw what is the ASX code for "StillWater"

thx

MS


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## refined silver (21 February 2008)

Stillwater Mining is not an ASX stock. Its is North America's biggest (and virtually only) Platinum/Palladium miner. 

The lists posted have the exchanges the stocks are listed on, and the stock codes.

Cheers


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## refined silver (4 March 2008)

There goes $2,200. Now at $2215.

Have only been posting at $100 intervals.

Wonder how many more posts to go???

Read that in a few places (not Oz?) well trained theives can remove a catalytic converter from a car in about 1 minute. It contains 5g of Pt which is now worth over $300!


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## Whiskers (4 March 2008)

refined silver said:


> There goes $2,200. Now at $2215.
> 
> Have only been posting at $100 intervals.
> 
> Wonder how many more posts to go???




Yeah, good question. So long as it holds these levels for a sustained period I know some juniour specs with PGE as a sideshow to Au and Cu that will probably reasses their projects.



> Read that in a few places (not Oz?) well trained theives can remove a catalytic converter from a car in about 1 minute. It contains 5g of Pt which is now worth over $300!




Probably come. Saw on news tonight where theives were caught with a container of copper including cable from rail switch gear etc for export to China.


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## Chief Wigam (4 March 2008)

For those interested, PGM is a future platinum producer. It has just released it's scoping.


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## MRC & Co (4 March 2008)

Whiskers said:


> Probably come. Saw on news tonight where theives were caught with a container of copper including cable from rail switch gear etc for export to China.




ha ha ha, this example and the catalytic converter containing pt example are hilarious!  

Who said crime doesnt pay!


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## aleckara (3 October 2008)

With all the attention to gold recently I have to wonder if platinum has done a lot more interesting things lately.

It peaked at over $2000/oz in the boom, and then fell majorily now trading at below $1000/oz. I know there isn't as many car sales, but it is almost on par with gold now. Considering gold is usually more for jewellery than platinum is I have to wonder whether platinum has been oversold or will the trend continue.

Does anyone on the forum have any opinions on this?


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## refined silver (3 October 2008)

A long time ago a few analysts speculated on if ever Au would get close in price to Pt, and if so it was time to buy Pt.

Pt has fallen over 50% mainly cos of fears for big recession and US auto demand falling. As usual momentum players have taken things way toofar. On the Demand side, auto demand from China, India etc is growing so fast, will more than make up for falls in US, even with a depression. On a supply side, South African power problems have dropped supply seriously, and no remedy in sight til 2012/3.


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## aleckara (3 October 2008)

refined silver said:


> A long time ago a few analysts speculated on if ever Au would get close in price to Pt, and if so it was time to buy Pt.
> 
> Pt has fallen over 50% mainly cos of fears for big recession and US auto demand falling. As usual momentum players have taken things way toofar. On the Demand side, auto demand from China, India etc is growing so fast, will more than make up for falls in US, even with a depression. On a supply side, South African power problems have dropped supply seriously, and no remedy in sight til 2012/3.




That's what I thought as well. I don't see how gold can be more than platinum in price in the long term anyway. Platinum seems to have many uses for its catalytic properties, and while gold is used in a few things as well I know for a fact it is mainly used as an investment and jewellery source only. Since this is the case, and platinum is rarer I would say that it would be a better store of value in the future. i.e I would probably want a platinum ring over a gold one if I knew the price would be the same as platinum is rarer.

http://www.research.gold.org/supply_demand/ - shows the gold uses currently


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## CanOz (3 February 2013)

Here is the 360 minute of platinum. I went to a longer time frame to show how important these levels are, where we are at now....

We are in a consolidation area that could easily see us at the more recent highs back in October and really very close to the 2012 highs.

Big value area now between 1665 and 1700. Volume has dropped off which is typical of a consolidation and it could pick up with a volume spike being recorded last session....i think this one's looking bullish right now. The ETF that tracks the futures contract the best is PPLT.

If the futures contract rejects lowers priced at 1680 or 1665.30 then i would look for a push higher and break of 1692.5. 169.22 on PPLT. Really for a decent R:R, you' need to get in the rejection of lower prices. An entry on the break wouldn't be much more than 1:1 using the initial target. It is however quite bullish on the weekly as well, and the flag target would be worth the risk.

This one looks ready to pop. The first target for PL is 1734.5.

Of course, a downside risk could play out if we break below 1650.

Cheers,

CanOz


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## CanOz (4 February 2013)

Platinum...breaking higher


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## Joules MM1 (8 June 2020)

platinum
appears to have another upleg underway, we maybe in a larger bounce from an over-extended bear trend or we maybe seeing the new gold, whatever, good transactional structure at play for mine
..i say presently while long am still looking for context to give (structurally) to the anecdotal view


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## Joules MM1 (10 June 2020)

taking out the 868 level in front month connie would bring BTO liquidity, the current price structure favours a follow-thru upside, risk defined 856's


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## NatWhote (17 June 2020)

Joules MM1 said:


> taking out the 868 level in front month connie would bring BTO liquidity, the current price structure favours a follow-thru upside, risk defined 856's
> View attachment 104560




Is this ETPMPT that you are looking at?


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## Joules MM1 (18 June 2020)

NatWhote said:


> Is this ETPMPT that you are looking at?




front month cfd, Nat
both TVC and CMC front month contracts
variations in levels not that relevant to price structure
....anyways my play was wrong in the lower time frames but still holds well in the daily weekly structures


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## Joules MM1 (1 July 2020)

bids are keen to get a continuation of the upswing


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## Joules MM1 (1 July 2020)

looking for the context


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## peter2 (7 July 2020)

Wow, platinum is a very volatile market at the moment. Makes oil and gold look very tame.


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## Joules MM1 (8 July 2020)

peter2 said:


> Wow, platinum is a very volatile market at the moment. Makes oil and gold look very tame.



price is establishing another zone, pricing still suggests to me we're  headed higher about to confirm weekly>monthly rotation ^


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## peter2 (8 July 2020)

All good so far. Although provider has restricted trading hours and the spread to close position out of hours is equal to initial stop size (=1R). Has to be a swing trade not a day trade. 
_Note_: Sell stop not itm with provider (  ).


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## peter2 (8 July 2020)

Daily chart - showing swing trade targets. 
(Another provider with more accessible market - sprd = 2pt)


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## peter2 (9 July 2020)

Very timely analysis on platinum @Joules MM1 . Thanks. 

I can follow this position on the tradingview platform instead of the broker platform. The volume bars show the open pit sessions and there was some follow up buying today taking price up to my 161.8% extension (855). This level was higher than the equal move off the pull-back low.  Gold also going higher no doubt helps.

This chart shows my entry at the 50% fib level. The limit buy order was placed well before the classic abc correction back down to my order. I might have been lucky to have been filled but there was a method for putting the buy order there (*). Open trade is +3.5R at 855. I'm very tempted to sell at this level but have decided to "let it ride" (as long as I don't open my broker platform).  




(*) I've been using this entry tactic (at the 50 - 62% PB level) more often lately. As a former exclusive BO trader it's been hard to recondition myself to start bullish trades when price is going down. However the W% I'm having using this entry tactic in these volatile markets has been very impressive. Plus I'm earning more with the winners as the ave win is >2.5R. I'm almost a convert.

I've also found a platinum ETF (PPLT) with sufficient volume (spread is 0.30 though) to swing trade as well.


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## Joules MM1 (18 July 2020)

after compact area we have another bite at the bid .....shorts are most in danger here, bids still have to prove the case albeit looking the well constructed .......been a case of best patience best reward for bids


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## peter2 (18 July 2020)

Aha, I see that gold is going up now also. Missed it as I was posting about the oil sector.

I think palladium is looking much stronger than platinum. It's moving higher now also.


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## Joules MM1 (18 July 2020)

peter2 said:


> Aha, I see that gold is going up now also. Missed it as I was posting about the oil sector.
> 
> I think palladium is looking much stronger than platinum. It's moving higher now also.




Platinum's challenge  wont dissipate until above the 1020 area as the last vpoc vestige and we should see strong momo thru there otherwise we'll probably see a very wide trading range over the next couple/five years, which is fine if the construct can be nailed down as it prints
putting aside the obvious games and thin trade (which allows thin trades to get whipped)
i think this simple view makes the whole game look different:
https://www.tradingview.com/x/BLlQbAPr/

both xauusd (GC) and palladium (PL) are in small upward channels
palladium looks on track for 2200-2290's 
palladium channel https://www.tradingview.com/x/ptvPr4wI/
xauusd channel https://www.tradingview.com/x/j1EFi7EV/

the difference for mine between xauusd/palladium channels is: impulsive gold, corrective palladium,
from a trend point of view, gold is not in a distribution climb but the mess that is PL is clearly not impulsive, sure it can take off but more likely trudge uphill and be convincing enough the bull is still raging and COT report suggests commercials are keen to keep the price level slopping around where it is

the major challenge with PA/PL  is the thin trade exagerates* moves, makes for more alerts!
also distorts the sentiment read with platinum regularly at 98% long both retail and top clients (much like silver at regular 96/98% longs)

*instant American dictionary(exagerate has one G not two, if it had two G's it would sound like the word egg, you muppets)


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## Joules MM1 (20 July 2020)

micro overnight channels PL, PA and GC all same signals 

not a lot to do guvna


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## peter2 (22 July 2020)

Looking good with all precious metals. Tues's push to higher values has been reflected in all of them. Silver shining the brightest.


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## Joules MM1 (22 July 2020)

peter2 said:


> Looking good with all precious metals. Tues's push to higher values has been reflected in all of them. Silver shining the brightest.




Pete
PA has two targets for mine in the front month 2265 and 2254 that swing up looks prime strength to be sold into, above that zone i wont be selling the next risk level is too far and this is still cannon fodder


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## Joules MM1 (22 July 2020)

for the sake of continuity, palladium
https://www.tradingview.com/x/UXKMwz45/
did it hit a  wall at the 1:1 high ?


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