# Louise Bedford course



## mrnovice

Hi 
I am obviously as the name suggests a novice to this forum and probably general trading!

i have read about many trading gurus and mentoring program and one that has grabbed my attentio is the so called Mentor Program!

My questions to my fella traders are

1-Has anyone ever taken that course? if not 

2-What other trading courses do you recommend. 

Thanks


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## Gundini

Hi mrnovice. Here is a thread that may help with your questions.

http://forum.incrediblecharts.com/messages/12/504214.html


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## kavla1970

I did the Mentor course and I combined it with some of the trading strategies I found on this forum (tech/a in particular) as well as reading practically everything I could. Nick Radge(followed it after reading tech/a posts) forum is fantastic as well and he has subscriptions and videos. I also heard of a bootcamp course by Jim Berg but I don't know anything about it (although he is a Metastock wizz).

I do have to mention that Mentor program doesn't focus on Candlesticks but more the traders mind set, Indicators, expectancy,setting up your trading plan and the like. It was in two parts, Louise takes you through(if I remember correctly) 12 weeks of her take on the market and then Chris Tate(who is a Genius me thinks) gives you on a no bull**** view of the market(10-12 weeks).

It took me many years and lots of "I feel like quiting" to finally find a system that I know works for me(and has a postive expectancy when tested on TradeSim).

To be honest I find this forum to be the best source of information as well. I'm not a poster but love reading all the different view points. You can't go wrong going through all the threads here too. Esp posts from professional traders.


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## zac

kavla1970 said:


> To be honest I find this forum to be the best source of information as well. I'm not a poster but love reading all the different view points. You can't go wrong going through all the threads here too. Esp posts from professional traders.




How do you tell who the professional traders are?
A lot of the times I cant sift the good from the bad so figure most of it is BS.
I find lots of posts here off putting because of peoples negative slant on things.

90% of trading is the mindset and Im constantly reminded I think that many here lack that 90%.


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## kavla1970

zac said:


> How do you tell who the professional traders are?
> A lot of the times I cant sift the good from the bad so figure most of it is BS.
> I find lots of posts here off putting because of peoples negative slant on things.
> 
> 90% of trading is the mindset and Im constantly reminded I think that many here lack that 90%.




I like reading about people's trading systems and sometimes you come across an answer here to a problem you have experienced in Trading and you go with it. But most of my rules are fixed.

I just follow a set of simple rules I developed after doing LB & CT course. And I trade Oil and a few Indicies. I wanted to keep it simple for a few years as my system is short term(my definition, a few days to 2 weeks) and there is no point trading a hundred securities if I can't trade just a handful.

I wanted to rely on a moving average exit but wasn't sure which one to go with and I read Tech/a system and used one of the MA's there. So it was helpful for me.


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## joea

zac said:


> How do you tell who the professional traders are?
> A lot of the times I cant sift the good from the bad so figure most of it is BS.
> I find lots of posts here off putting because of peoples negative slant on things.
> 
> 90% of trading is the mindset and Im constantly reminded I think that many here lack that 90%.




Do you want to know who the traders are,  or who  the profitable traders are.?

Trading is about Mind, Method and Money Management with the emphasis on the last.
Any mug can put a trade on. The fool loses, and the one with money management has a chance to be profitable.

Tech/a is currently attempting to give a overview on the topic of Technical Analysis.

I would bet that 90% of traders spend 90% of the time looking at charts etc., and still do not have a trading  plan or a Trading Check list.
i.e.  Trading Checklist covers,Code, entry criteria, exit criteria, Risk Management, Position traded, Profit/ Loss on trade, Profit/Loss monthly and Comments.
If you do not have a monthly P/L you cannot tell when you have been confined to the sin bin. One A4 page is all that is needed. Add chart to it and file.

If you add slippage calculator to that, then that would be an aid to gain maximum profit from trade, but it can be done outside the checklist.

joea


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## alocineel

I too have been looking at doing a mentoring course - any opinions on T4T(B Gilbert) or G.Norden & the 1-2-1 mentoring they offer?

As with all these mentoring courses, there are reasonable sums of cash to outlay, and many dodgy 'guru traders' around.

Cheers


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## Vicki

I've a friend who's completed her & Chris Tate's course..cost 7k

Having read their material before, they appear to be knowledable people who have their morals in check...eg. they'll emphasize on position sizing & not risking more than 2% at any one time etc.

Which is a head & shoulders above most shyster shameless scam-artist out there...re-Bill Stacecy, Andrew Dimitri & Planet wealth [the newby meat grinder], who send families broke etc.

But, for all the good technical info, on having a strict plan...so much so, that even your Granny could follow it ..no emotions, just a thorough trading plan etc.

Well forgive me for yet again being a little sinical...But, ask for the grand masters to lead by example with just one such 'trading plan' based on this'n that [doesn't have to be perfect]...But..Alas..they just CAN'T do it!!!!

Chris Tate, bases his persona on a martial arts type discipline...No if's or buts, just stick to the rules/plan etc.

Well, imagine going to a martial arts school [kung-fu etc.] and the grand master, couldn't at least show you a display of how it's done..maybe sparring with another black-belt student?...But instead made up excuses...

I'm not being mean...but hey...you wouldn't have much faith in your instructor would you???

So my conclusion is, their strict trading plans etc.. are fallacy.

If it was possible..for 7K , you think they could at least lead by example?

So, by all means, read their books for info...but forget the folly of their expsensive trading training programs/courses....It's just whole-sale money making for them.

A hundred students a time..paying 7k...with non commital answers at the end?

Well at least they tell you to be careful..that's something.

regards,
              Vicki


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## tech/a

Nick Radge runs 5 live for his students at a little over a grand a year.
Google him

Even if they had a plan which you follow like a Kung Fu master if it's flawed and loses money then no amount of planning or discipline is going to make you profitable.


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## Vicki

Can't argue with that Tech.


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## tech/a

Vicki said:


> Can't argue with that Tech.




Actually you can follow one of Radges portfolio's for a year at under $400
The most popular I believe is his Growth Portfolio---which I also follow--- more for the methodology and the way he manages his trades,than the trades themselves--is around $680/year.

I certainly understand where your coming from---dont mis understand me.
There needs to be accountability on both sides---educator and student.


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## Buckfont

Vicki, $7000!!! I smelt a rat here myself soon after the emails started arriving for the mentor programme. Did it out of curiosity more than anything. It was all a bit too slick and pushy for my liking especially when the time limit for joining was about to expire and they kept on with the guilt trip. Put me right off.

Now see they only do it for one thing and it isn`t through the kindness of their heart.

Been around too long to fall for that one


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## pavilion103

tech/a said:


> Actually you can follow one of Radges portfolio's for a year at under $400
> The most popular I believe is his Growth Portfolio---which I also follow--- more for the methodology and the way he manages his trades,than the trades themselves--is around $680/year.
> 
> I certainly understand where your coming from---dont mis understand me.
> There needs to be accountability on both sides---educator and student.




I also follow Nick Radge, but on his short term ASX trades. Well worth it imo. $33 per month. 
He even had a sample of previous short term trades from 2008 which I spend a few hours pulling apart and learning from.


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## pavilion103

Buckfont said:


> Vicki, $7000!!! I smelt a rat here myself soon after the emails started arriving for the mentor programme. Did it out of curiosity more than anything. It was all a bit too slick and pushy for my liking especially when the time limit for joining was about to expire and they kept on with the guilt trip. Put me right off.
> 
> Now see they only do it for one thing and it isn`t through the kindness of their heart.
> 
> Been around too long to fall for that one




$7,000 seems absolutely insane for a course. I'm all for paying money to do my apprenticship, but for what you can gain from much cheaper sources, $7,000 is ridiculous. 
In fact, just from two e-books - Master the Markets and one of Wyckoff's courses (which I got for free) I have been able to build a profitable system and gain a good understanding of trading and the markets. 

Even if you bought a bunch of books for $30-40 each and read through them you'd probably get more than paying $7,000 for one course. Signing up to Nick Radge for $33 per month, on it's own has been a vlauable source of learning for me. 

I really don't see the need to pay for an expensive course. Pay the price in time instead, not huge dollars!!!


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## saham

Would love to join the course for next year, but the cost is $14000!

Perhaps, finding a course in USA is a better option.


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## CanOz

What do you think the course can teach you that is not available in the public domain?

CanOz


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## saham

*Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*

Just curious if anyone will be attending her course this year and actually paid $15K.


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## tech/a

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*

Why would anyone do that!


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## Garpal Gumnut

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*



tech/a said:


> Why would anyone do that!




+1

gg


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## sails

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*



tech/a said:


> Why would anyone do that!




Agree - does she trade or just write books?

$15,000 isn't going to guarantee success in the market, that's for sure.  I paid for courses with Safety in the Market and Optionetics and it didn't help me to actually make money.  One felt all good and fuzzy during the course but ultimately decided courses are a shocking waste of money.

Although the marketing of these courses can be hard to resist.  They have testimonials that suck one in.  I remember Safety in the Market had one guy who they flogged constantly who made a 6 figure profit around melbourne cup day.  Of course that sort of thing sucks people in - it did me at the time but then I didn't have ASF to ground me then!

That's my


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## tech/a

*Lets think about this a little more.*

We will make the assumption that "The Professional" is all of that and 
has put together a fantastic programme which will indeed teach you "how" 
to trade ---PROFITABLY. The course gives you notes and power point
presentations with a DVD you can re visit at you leisure. The Professional
speaks for say $300 when in town so they are in demand and travel a lot
write books etc.

So they can make $30-60K at a speaking engagement--why--demand.
I saw Guppy fill 3 rooms in a row (Separate nights) at $150 a night and 150/ room.
In Adelaide---where most are asleep by 7.30.

So lets say they see a demand for specific education. Mentor-ship.
Your not going to be able to do that with a full room of people so you need to drive
attendance by price. 5 x 14000 or say 10 x $7000

Really if your a pro are you going to deliver a quality "mentor-ship" for less?
There is a heap of work in these if done correctly---in the background before
presenting to during and after.

Ive attended a few ticklers in my time and been thrown out of one when my
questions hit raw nerves---mind you 15 mins later there were at least 20 people
lining up at 2 tables to sign up for the $15K course---they just didnt know what to ask
let alone what they NEEDED to know.

But back to my point.
Your not going to get quality education for peanuts. The educator needs to either do it with
volume and low price or high price less volume---If you know how to trade/run a business or
a household you'll be following me.

The problem lies in those who are attending.
Their expectations in particular. They expect instant profit---no loss or financial pain.
It must happen now.
Personally I think there should be seminars on* what you really need to be educated in* to
make a go of being profitable.
You have to understand that even a mentor-ship is just a step in the marathon *not beginning and end.*

If I include software costs,education which I've paid for,books,computers,data without my time
Thats around $35000.
Over 20 yrs and still going.---Oh and a $20K loss in year 1.5 which taught me I wasn't the genius I thought I was.
My return from the time and money invested has been worth it. X around 9X investment.

So expect a cost a substantial one--but best become an expert *FIRST* in what you really *NEED* to know.


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## tech/a

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*



sails said:


> Agree - does she trade or just write books?
> 
> $15,000 isn't going to guarantee success in the market, that's for sure.  I paid for courses with Safety in the Market and Optionetics and it didn't help me to actually make money.  One felt all good and fuzzy during the course but ultimately decided courses are a shocking waste of money.
> 
> Although the marketing of these courses can be hard to resist.  They have testimonials that suck one in.  I remember Safety in the Market had one guy who they flogged constantly who made a 6 figure profit around melbourne cup day.  Of course that sort of thing sucks people in - it did me at the time but then I didn't have ASF to ground me then!
> 
> That's my




Sails

I'II bet there was no* practical* application in the course.
Correct me if Im wrong but Ill bet it was filled with 
"Look this happened THEN and this Pressure point showed that that's EXACTLY where it was going to happen"
Or similar.

Nothing about how to put all this theory into a practical/profitable trading method---going forward next day/week/month etc.


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## sails

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*



tech/a said:


> Sails
> 
> I'II bet there was no* practical* application in the course.
> Correct me if Im wrong but Ill bet it was filled with
> "Look this happened THEN and this Pressure point showed that that's EXACTLY where it was going to happen"
> Or similar.
> 
> Nothing about how to put all this theory into a practical/profitable trading method---going forward next day/week/month etc.





Exactly!  Lots of historical charts.  No live trading or any such practical thing.  It seemed to be more about telling people how money could have been made in hindsight.

Sadly, playing on people being naive but willing to spend money to learn how to try and improve their lot in life.  What a rip-off!


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## tech/a

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*

It seemed to be more about telling people how money could have been made in hindsight.

And there my friend you have described 95% of Courses.
Now with all fairness I dont know what's in Louise's course.

For a bit of balance I posted this on the other thread.



> Lets think about this a little more.
> 
> We will make the assumption that "The Professional" is all of that and
> has put together a fantastic programme which will indeed teach you "how"
> to trade ---PROFITABLY. The course gives you notes and power point
> presentations with a DVD you can re visit at you leisure. The Professional
> speaks for say $300 when in town so they are in demand and travel a lot
> write books etc.
> 
> So they can make $30-60K at a speaking engagement--why--demand.
> I saw Guppy fill 3 rooms in a row (Separate nights) at $150 a night and 150/ room.
> In Adelaide---where most are asleep by 7.30.
> 
> So lets say they see a demand for specific education. Mentor-ship.
> Your not going to be able to do that with a full room of people so you need to drive
> attendance by price. 5 x 14000 or say 10 x $7000
> 
> Really if your a pro are you going to deliver a quality "mentor-ship" for less?
> There is a heap of work in these if done correctly---in the background before
> presenting to during and after.
> 
> Ive attended a few ticklers in my time and been thrown out of one when my
> questions hit raw nerves---mind you 15 mins later there were at least 20 people
> lining up at 2 tables to sign up for the $15K course---they just didnt know what to ask
> let alone what they NEEDED to know.
> 
> But back to my point.
> Your not going to get quality education for peanuts. The educator needs to either do it with
> volume and low price or high price less volume---If you know how to trade/run a business or
> a household you'll be following me.
> 
> The problem lies in those who are attending.
> Their expectations in particular. They expect instant profit---no loss or financial pain.
> It must happen now.
> Personally I think there should be seminars on what you really need to be educated in to
> make a go of being profitable.
> You have to understand that even a mentor-ship is just a step in the marathon not beginning and end.
> 
> If I include software costs,education which I've paid for,books,computers,data without my time
> Thats around $35000.
> Over 20 yrs and still going.---Oh and a $20K loss in year 1.5 which taught me I wasn't the genius I thought I was.
> My return from the time and money invested has been worth it. X around 9X investment.
> 
> So expect a cost a substantial one--but best become an expert FIRST in what you really NEED to know.


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## pavilion103

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*



tech/a said:


> Why would anyone do that!





hahaha


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## notting

People come to the market expecting to just explode into wealth, to outsmart, out psych out courage all.
It's obvious watching TV, that the market will come back, it always does.
It just can't be that hard.
That's logical and true and is the trap for a wanna be *trader*.

A brilliant *trader* who can really do well, will not give away their secret.
They probably can't because it can be a massively complex moving beast of intelligence that incorporates perception, behaviour, knowing how *traders* trade, rare moments of intuitive clarity, flipping etc  that are unexplainable and on and on.

I have to say that I did find it curious that Nick Radge called his last book *Unholy Grails*.
I thought, "Hmmm, gee Nick, that's really not much of a title. Your really not spinning anything with that.  Cool."
I mean Something Like, 'Lose Weight by Making Millions Trading' would jump off the shelf much faster.
Then I thought, 'Well, I guess it could appeal to all those who have tried and tried and inevitably failed.'
That's most people who *trade* without being fully geared up with what it's all about.
Good for current environment especially, when it was released!

Smart.

Nothing wrong with that.  It's a book.

You either need a robust system that is developed by a very experienced smart person or people who are more experienced and better at devoloping such a system than you can hope to be or could do in a relativly profitable amount of time!!!  But even then the art is *you need to be able to stick to it through thick and thin!!*

In short you need to know yourself and play to your weeknesses and strengths in a counter entuitive environment that makes a mokery of your natural good business instincts. 

Almost, no one can *trade* profitably in a *human* untested unsystematic way.  
Which is something you need to know and use to your advantage.

Starting with: I can't trade, I am the worst trader that ever lived.
OK, so when I think I should aboslutly buy, I will short.
When I think that price is rediculous it has just gone and gone and gone, I should short it - buy.

You can be taught to bat but there aint many Bradmans, Buffets or Jobs.

Investing on the other hand is different it has little to do with the market or trading day to day.

So they say - risk reward for short to medium term trading - *90% chance of losing* 10% chance of winning.  

Gonna take that trade?


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## Garpal Gumnut

Some folk put too much thought in to trading, read too many books like Bedford's and go to too many courses.

They are chasing the holy grail.

The retrospectoscope is a flawed instrument and tied in with the self help industry, as tech/a alluded to, is a recipe for disaster.

The industry tells you when you should have entered, and could have and would have profited.

Then they suggest you set unrealistic goals.

It is called goalodicy.

You are so caught up in attaining the goal that you lose sight of the present, the time, when you need to enter or leave a trade or investment.

Ask the Storm Financial folk about it.

gg


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## tech/a

> I have to say that I did find it curious that Nick Radge called his last book Unholy Grails.




My take is that examples of Long term profitable methods along with interviews with long term profitable traders 
presented the "Holy Grail"
But when you actually look at what makes the profit its not all that Holy.
Hence "Unholy Grails" I've never asked him but will.



> You either need a robust system that is developed by a very experienced smart person or people who are more experienced and better at developing such a system than you can hope to be or could do in a relatively profitable amount of time!!! But even then the art is you need to be able to stick to it through thick and thin!!




I dont know why people see this as so hard.
You have a blue print of results through back testing/Out of Sample testing and eventually Forward testing.
If its trading outside of the blue print then you stop trading it!!



> Almost, no one can trade profitably in a human untested unsystematic way.
> Which is something you need to know and use to your advantage.




Think Ill change my name to almost!



> You can be taught to bat but there aint many Bradmans, Buffets or Jobs.




You dont have to be.



> So they say - risk reward for short to medium term trading - 90% chance of losing 10% chance of winning.
> 
> Gonna take that trade?




You dont have to be in the 90% take care of your own R/R and everything else will fall into place.


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## Bill M

*Re: Anyone attending Louise Bedford mentor program 2013 & paid $15,000?*



saham said:


> Just curious if anyone will be attending her course this year and actually paid $15K.




Never heard of her, I think I put my 15K to better use.


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## notting

tech/a said:


> My take is that examples of Long term profitable methods along with interviews with long term profitable traders
> presented the "Holy Grail"
> But when you actually look at what makes the profit its not all that Holy.




My take on it from the cover was whatch out for the Big sharks and BS loss promises and methods, they are everywhere.  If you bother to read the back of the book there you may get a different take - the promise of a  simple methology. Then the perception of the book changes I guess. Just not sure if you'd get that far.
My questioning of the book from the cover *picture along with the title* kind of makes me think if you didn't know Nick's approach, you'd think it was a book on disasters and so on in the market.  'Roads to Hell' would be my alternative name.  
Not what the pumped up wanna be trader would be attracted to.  'I'm no goose,' thinks he.




tech/a said:


> I dont know why people see this as so hard.



Yes you do.  
People second guess the robust system and make the same mistakes as they do when trading normally. 
They can't stick to the system they think maybe they can beat it or can't stick to it when getting chopped up in a losing period, or press the button when a trade seems crazy, .

People don't suddenly become a machine to operate the machine, they have to push the buttons, (in Australia any way).  Or you can pay a lot more to have one of Nicks team press the buttons for you whilst you hit a little white ball around to stop yourself meddling.



tech/a said:


> You don't have to be in the 90%




So true. 
Pay Nick, dance when your told to and save a fortune in time and money trying to work it all out yourself.
But why would you trust a robust system like Nicks Growth Protfolio to begin with, without knowing it's hard for a begginner to beat let alone a seasoned servivor, unless you've been down the road to the Unholy grails and don't want to go down again! 

'Maybe that book will make me feel better about what's happened to me!' especially during slaughterhouse period like the GFC.
Hence the title, me thinks.

Those that can R/R their own way using higher probability entry points or stick to the system, or have a bradman like talent - *part* of the 10%


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## tech/a

*Well Nicks answer below.
*
Classic Radge!

Click to expand.







> Yes you do.
> People second guess the robust system and make the same mistakes as they do when trading normally.
> They can't stick to the system they think maybe they can beat it or can't stick to it when getting chopped up in a losing period, or press the button when a trade seems crazy, .
> 
> People don't suddenly become a machine to operate the machine, they have to push the buttons, (in Australia any way). Or you can pay a lot more to have one of Nicks team press the buttons for you whilst you hit a little white ball around to stop yourself meddling.




Nah still dont get it.
I find it really easy--hence I dont get it.
I must be a truly special DUCK.


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## notting

tech/a said:


> I must be a truly special DUCK.




Think you might be. Quack.


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## wayneL

Isn't Radge a spruiker too?


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## wayneL

But... top title for a trading book, despite my opinion of him.


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## tech/a

wayneL said:


> But... top title for a trading book, despite my opinion of him.




This opinion

Developed from personal contact with the man

Or

??????


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## wayneL

tech/a said:


> This opinion
> 
> Developed from personal contact with the man
> 
> Or
> 
> ??????




I'm sure everyone, including you, has opinions on people they've never met, but I have actually met him....

...then of course there is interaction via various fora over the years.


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## tech/a

wayneL said:


> I'm sure everyone, including you, has opinions on people they've never met, but I have actually met him....
> 
> ...then of course there is interaction via various fora over the years.




Tall poppy syndrome is alive and very well.


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## notting

I've met him and his partner. She's absolutely lovely and he carries no airs about himself and is offering a valuable service at a reasonable price. The reasonable price is what I am greateful for.  Unlike the cow in the title of this thread.


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## wayneL

tech/a said:


> Tall poppy syndrome is alive and very well.




That's a Non Sequitur Tech/a and you have zero basis for saying that. 

I am sorry if you are offended that I have reservations about your mentor's character, but it is based in my experience. 

But FYI, I have no challenge with Radge's education program. I think it is good and I have not criticized the information. It is about his behaviour on this site, and elsewhere. 

Why are you happy for people to criticize other spruikers here (and participate mightily yourself), yet get all huffy when your own spruiker cops a minor sleight?

Hypocrisy??


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## nulla nulla

A cage fight, so early on a Sunday morning. Pulls up deck chair, prepares munchies and drinks, rolls a number. Bring it on, i'm ready to be entertained.


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## notting

Advertising covertly or otherwise can always be questionable. But if u do have something to offer at a reasonable price I just wouldn't slight it. U have to let people know somehow and people like me are quick to be cynical it's not an easy balance , it is business.
Sorry to be conciliatory.


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## tech/a

wayneL said:


> That's a Non Sequitur Tech/a and you have zero basis for saying that.



Well let's see.


> I am sorry if you are offended that I have reservations about your mentor's character, but it is based in my experience.



So clearly a personal sleight which is out if context here


> But FYI, I have no challenge with Radge's education program. I think it is good and I have not criticized the information. It is about his behaviour on this site, and elsewhere.



Which has no place here---in my opinion. Why did you bring it up? 
TThere have been no " personal " criticism directed toward anyone here that I can see!


> Why are you happy for people to criticize other spruikers here (and participate mightily yourself), yet get all huffy when your own spruiker cops a minor sleight?



Within context no problem
Other than that it's a personal sleight
" Tall poppy syndrome "


> Hypocrisy??



Nah.


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## wayneL

tech/a said:


> Well let's see.
> 
> So clearly a personal sleight which is out if context here
> 
> Which has no place here---in my opinion. Why did you bring it up?
> TThere have been no " personal " criticism directed toward anyone here that I can see!
> 
> Within context no problem
> Other than that it's a personal sleight
> " Tall poppy syndrome "
> 
> Nah.




Sorry Tech, as it was you who started spruiking him once his name was mentioned, it was very much in context.

YOU, in effect, brought it up.

As there is a long and noble tradition of slamming spruikers and spammers, which you are one of the main proponents of, St Nick is fair game.

But I repeat, no issue with the quality of his offerings, just the spamming and subsequent dummy spit on this board.

FFS, I even complimented the title of the book. 

If it is tall poppy syndrome as you claim, then you are massively guilty of the same as you have slagged off heaps of "educators" here.

Do you have a man-crush on him or something?


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## burglar

wayneL said:


> Sorry Tech, as it was you who started spruiking him once his name was mentioned, it was very much in context.
> 
> YOU, in effect, brought it up.
> 
> As there is a long and noble tradition of slamming spruikers and spammers, which you are one of the main proponents of, St Nick is fair game.
> 
> But I repeat, no issue with the quality of his offerings, just the spamming and subsequent dummy spit on this board.
> 
> FFS, I even complimented the title of the book.
> 
> If it is tall poppy syndrome as you claim, then you are massively guilty of the same as you have slagged off heaps of "educators" here.
> 
> Do you have a man-crush on him or something?




Whoa!


----------



## nulla nulla

Breathes out...wow this is good stuff. Haven't seen a good stoush like this for a long time. Though that swipe about a "man crush" was a little below the belt (get it  ).

Bring on round two, I just got some fresh munchies.


----------



## tech/a

In Context yes.

Your personal issues are yours.

I'll continue to bag spammers and those that present limited or no content.
Without reservation those who show no practical application.

Personal sleights directed by me you'll find follow personal sleights directed squarely at the duck.( go have a look )
Enjoy a discussion but despise personal attack.

Celia and I count Nick and Trish as friends----- as you do----- after a 20 yr personal and business relationship.
You've also been around long enough to know that Nick and I have gone head to head on many occasions.
But the man is as you see. Doesn't suffer fools at all. Certainly doesn't mince words---and a man of few.
Above all though I've found him to be honest and totally professional. Pretty rare in this game.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

This is an extremely good paper on suckers and seers.



> Published in Technology Review, June/July, 1980, 16-24
> The Seer-Sucker Theory: The Value of Experts in Forecasting
> J. Scott Armstrong




http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=648763

It can be downloaded for free.




Another good reference is Dire Straits.



gg


----------



## CanOz

This is no place for that discussion to evolve into a slinging match, it should be taken off the thread to PM in my view.

In regards to comparing TheChartist to Louise Bedford's service i can say only that from my experience Nick is very conservative in advertising his service and he tends to rely on his good reputation, performance and service with his clients. His service is one of the most conservatively priced that i have encountered. His Profitable Trader seminar is very good value.

I would have no doubt that for 7000 AUD Louise would provide lots of good value, personal coaching etc. If you can afford that then go for it. She is well known and fairly well respected in the industry. Certainly doesn't deserve the title 'cow'...

I agree that if you want an education in the market's you'll need to pay...either pay a mentor, or pay the market. Either way you'll get an education and it will cost you...what one does with the education from either option is what is more important.

CanOz


----------



## aarbee

Just one thing to point out; from what I know of the captioned mentorship program, Chris Tate is the co-mentor. In fact, Louise restricts herself more to the psychological side of training. The trading side is handled predominantly by Chris Tate. 
Louise is the marketiing force behind the mentorship course. 
I used to look forward to their newsletter but in the past year or so, Chris seems to have dropped out of the newsletter and Louise's contribution is nearly all in marketing the next mentorship course. I have now un-subscribed myself from the newsletter.  

Cheers


----------



## tech/a

> Trust no one.




Dont know that that is necessary.
Trust is earnt as is respect.


----------



## burglar

tech/a said:


> Dont know that that is necessary.
> Trust is earnt as is respect.




Meanwhile, there is due diligence.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

Should anyone be looking for a mentor on how to simultaneously ride a bicycle without a bicycle helmet, smoke a cohiba and eat a battered fish on a bicycle path full of coppers and lycra clad peletonics, and not get stopped out by market forces, I have a course starting on April 1, 2013.

Cost is $15,000 if you register before March 1.

$7,000 if you register after that date.

gg


----------



## sval62

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Should anyone be looking for a mentor on how to simultaneously ride a bicycle without a bicycle helmet, smoke a cohiba and eat a battered fish on a bicycle path full of coppers and lycra clad peletonics, and not get stopped out by market forces, I have a course starting on April 1, 2013.
> 
> Cost is $15,000 if you register before March 1.
> 
> $7,000 if you register after that date.
> 
> gg




I'm in, please send me your bank a/c details and I will deposit the 15 grand asap.
Do you you include a nice drop of vino in the price?


----------



## tech/a

Spent a half hr going over her site " The Trading Game"

Professionally put together.
Appears they are going the same way as many
In the field of design and testing a trading methodology.

There is no doubt her persona is an advantage in their marketing.
Tata also looks like a non nonsense type of gangster.

I'd say they didn't get a single bite at $15k and even if they did
A simple refund once the $7k offer was announced would have
Had praise not condemnation.

What sort of value do posters put on mentorship
And how do they derive that figure


----------



## IFocus

wayneL said:


> Isn't Radge a spruiker too?




I'll weigh in here

Spruiker

 =gives impression they are really, really good trader.
           = sells over priced course on secret to trade to make promised fortune. 
           = claims to trade said method personally and making a killing.
           = never and I mean never gives results real time or other of personal account
           = never and I mean never declares own holdings or trades ongoing.

I could go but I am sure everyone gets the point

I know there was a massive falling out on this site (don't know the details) with a number of people and his name became he who must not be mentioned.

If I remember EW was at the centre of the dispute (who would have thought)

Have known of and or known Radge like Tech for must be going on 15 or more years.

I have only ever known Radge to act with complete transparency and integrity whether talking about trading or personal stuff. 

He has only ever charged prices he would have been prepared to pay himself and given away massive amounts of time and information for free simply because he thought he wouldn't pay for it so he couldn't charge for it.

Radge is certainly a significant part (not all) of my own marathon to become profitable.

I support and would recommend him 100%. There is only one other person in the game I would say the same and she no longer runs education (it messed up her trading). 

Is Radge a spruiker =   no


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

IFocus said:


> I'll weigh in here
> 
> Spruiker
> 
> =gives impression they are really, really good trader.
> = sells over priced course on secret to trade to make promised fortune.
> = claims to trade said method personally and making a killing.
> = never and I mean never gives results real time or other of personal account
> = never and I mean never declares own holdings or trades ongoing.
> 
> I could go but I am sure everyone gets the point
> 
> I know there was a massive falling out on this site (don't know the details) with a number of people and his name became he who must not be mentioned.
> 
> If I remember EW was at the centre of the dispute (who would have thought)
> 
> Have known of and or known Radge like Tech for must be going on 15 or more years.
> 
> I have only ever known Radge to act with complete transparency and integrity whether talking about trading or personal stuff.
> 
> He has only ever charged prices he would have been prepared to pay himself and given away massive amounts of time and information for free simply because he thought he wouldn't pay for it so he couldn't charge for it.
> 
> Radge is certainly a significant part (not all) of my own marathon to become profitable.
> 
> I support and would recommend him 100%. There is only one other person in the game I would say the same and she no longer runs education (it messed up her trading).
> 
> Is Radge a spruiker =   no




+1

gg


----------



## nulla nulla

Too much personal information coming out here as respective posters try to defend their friendships with a respected trader/publisher/business person. Totally off topic and unnecessary. 

Perhaps time a responsible moderator stepped in and flushed out the off topic posts? Joe.. Prawn...System..??


----------



## tech/a

nulla nulla said:


> Too much personal information coming out here as respective posters try to defend their friendships with a respected trader/publisher/business person. Totally off topic and unnecessary.
> 
> Perhaps time a responsible moderator stepped in and flushed out the off topic posts? Joe.. Prawn...System..??




Positive response and affirmations ----- delete them.
Derogatory comments and views ----- keep them.

Amazing!


----------



## nulla nulla

On topic comments in regard the pro's and con's of the Louise Bedford course, including objective comparisons with other trader/authors/programs such as Nick Radge, Alan Hull, Guppy etc etc ...keep them. 

Personal exchanges loaded with personal information, flush them out as irrelevent and off topic. No offence. Nothing personal. Nothing to be gained and totally irrelevent.


----------



## tech/a

nulla nulla said:


> On topic comments in regard the pro's and con's of the Louise Bedford course, including objective comparisons with other trader/authors/programs such as Nick Radge, Alan Hull, Guppy etc etc ...keep them.
> 
> Personal exchanges loaded with personal information, flush them out as irrelevent and off topic. No offence. Nothing personal. Nothing to be gained and totally irrelevent.




Loaded with personal information---your kidding me---- delete away!


----------



## burglar

nulla nulla said:


> On topic comments in regard the pro's and con's of the Louise Bedford course, including objective comparisons with other trader/authors/programs such as Nick Radge, Alan Hull, Guppy etc etc ...keep them.
> 
> Personal exchanges loaded with personal information, flush them out as irrelevent and off topic. No offence. Nothing personal. Nothing to be gained and totally irrelevent.






The Queensbury Rules


1. To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a twenty-four foot ring or as near that size as practicable. 

2. No wrestling or hugging allowed. 

3. The rounds to be of three minutes duration and one minute time between rounds. 

4. If either man fall through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, ten seconds be allowed to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner; and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the ten seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his awart in favour of the other man. 

5. A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down. 

6. No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds. 

7. Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee (is) to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest, to that the match can be won and lost, unless the backers of the men agree to draw the stakes. 

8. The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new. 

9. Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction. 

10. A man on one knee is considered down, and if struck is entitled to the stakes. 

11. No shoes or boots with springs allowed. 

12. The contest in all other respects to be governed by the revised rules of the London Prize Ring.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/spring03/bueneventura/rules.htm


----------



## wayneL

burglar said:


> The Queensbury Rules
> 
> 
> 1. To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a twenty-four foot ring or as near that size as practicable.
> 
> 2. No wrestling or hugging allowed.
> 
> 3. The rounds to be of three minutes duration and one minute time between rounds.
> 
> 4. If either man fall through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, ten seconds be allowed to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner; and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the ten seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his awart in favour of the other man.
> 
> 5. A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down.
> 
> 6. No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds.
> 
> 7. Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee (is) to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest, to that the match can be won and lost, unless the backers of the men agree to draw the stakes.
> 
> 8. The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new.
> 
> 9. Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction.
> 
> 10. A man on one knee is considered down, and if struck is entitled to the stakes.
> 
> 11. No shoes or boots with springs allowed.
> 
> 12. The contest in all other respects to be governed by the revised rules of the London Prize Ring.
> 
> http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/spring03/bueneventura/rules.htm




It should be one on one too.


----------



## tech/a

Worse in my view.

$7000 carrot.
Followed by the must have $7000 master class 
Which if you don't take it ---- well that's why you'll surely 
Fail.

Why can't it be done in a free orientation?
At which you'd be able to put together an FAQ

Can someone point me to their live trading which will
Show me their current and past return?

Or is this purely hypothetical theories on which people are mentored?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

When I started out I bought Louise and Chris Tate's, Elders you name it , I was a self help trading junkie as I'd been screwed by a financial adviser.

I agree with tech.

The game going forward is the most important determinant of a financial educator's credibility.

Nick Radge does that.

Louise Bedford, Chris Tate and all the others are looking at historical. 

It's like trying to resuscitate a Turtle.

It will win you friends and admiration but you will be up for your dry cleaning costs, and most likely the turtle will have carked it by the time you notice it's not bobbing it's head up.

For those under the age of 40, google Turtles.

gg


----------



## notting

tech/a said:


> Worse in my view.
> $7000 carrot.
> Followed by the must have $7000 master class
> Which if you don't take it ---- well that's why you'll surely
> Fail.




My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Karmen

I am one of Louise Bedford’s disabled mentorees. This is a very personal account of my experience and I make no apologies for that. There have been some unimaginative personal attacks against Louise and that has made me feel very sad and that is why I am writing this. My gratitude goes to the moderators who stepped in and flushed out what should have never shown up at the first place on a well-respected public forum.

In this country, unlike where I come from, we take the privilege of free speech for granted. But this privilege comes with responsibility and it relies on our maturity as individuals. I would like to see that we do respect and value each other as human beings no matter how different our opinions might be. Judging someone we don’t even know seems to be something we all do without much consideration. Because they happen to be in the public eye does not give us the right to insult them publicly.

I have read every thing on this thread and I do realise that some of you do have genuine concerns and questions. I also noticed that there is considerable amount of misinformation so it makes it very difficult to discern the truth. I won’t able to answer your questions individually due to my physical limitations but I am sure Louise would be very generous with her time if you ask her nicely. Their web site http://tradinggame.com.au/ will have her contact details. You will also have access to useful information on their web site such as Chris Tate’s blog and Trading Games Newsletter. There is also a section about the Generic Mentor Program System Results, audited by a Registered Company Auditor that you might find useful.

Well, my story started at the ‘Educated Investor’ bookshop. It is a very good place to visit if you don’t know where to start. I did spend a lot of hours there and picked out a lot of books and to my credit I did actually read them all. In the end I came up with one major decision that changed my life.  I wanted to become a trend following professional trader. By the time I decided to do the Mentor Program, I had already read three of Louise’s books and two of Chris’s among a lot of other books by different authors. I contacted Louise via email and I asked her opinion whether she thinks I will able to cope with the workload given my physical condition. She phoned me on the same day and we had a long chat. I felt understood and inspired. Later, I met Louise and Chris in person. I did not talk to Chris much but I trusted them both all the same. Women tend to be more intuitive with these things and it surely shortcuts the process of elimination.

I completed Louise Bedford and Chris Tate’s Mentor Program in 2012. I had tried to enroll in the previous year and unfortunately it got sold out within two hours and I had to wait for another year. I just could not believe that exactly one hundred people had beaten me to it! They do give priority to the referrals from past mentorees so it is mainly marketed by word of mouth. I have personally recommended it to a lot of friends.

You may not know that Louise’s main passion is working with disabled people. She gives them a new hope and eventually a new life. It makes a big difference to us that she has been there herself and she knows exactly what we have to go through day after day. Her resilience and strong spirit what brings her where she is today; a brilliant trader, best selling author of many books and a successful entrepreneur. She is an inspiration for us all.

Over the years I have come to appreciate her empathic wisdom, care and love. You may not find her courses suitable for your needs, which I respect, but I will not have her integrity questioned.

In all honesty, The Mentor Program won’t be suitable for a lot of people. If you want to be told exactly what to buy and sell then you will be better off with some of the other providers.  

During the course we do develop a generic MP trading system, which serves as a framework. You will be given all the guidance and encouragement but only you can develop a trading system that will suit your individual needs. Parameters such as your risk profile, your goals, your choice of markets, your choice of instruments, the size of your trading capital, your time frame etc. would need to be taken into account. A trading system is an individual thing and it needs to fit your personality like a glove.

If Louise or Chris happens to give me an exact copy of their personal trading plans, I would hand it right back to them. It is useless to me, I can’t and I won’t trade exactly like them, I want to trade like me. What impresses me about this course is it is ability to empower individuals to become self-reliant and independent traders. You have to learn to think for yourself.

And I won’t lie to you; it is hard work. I would treat it as if I am enrolling in a degree course and I would expect the similar amount of blood, sweat and tears to follow. That is if you are really serious about trading. Traders are not made overnight just like any other professional occupation.

We are not used to paying for quality education. We immediately get suspicious. A friend of mine is doing an online Nutrition course and the cost is around $40,000 and she thinks it is good value and I absolutely agree with her. You usually get what you pay for. Now I know that how the MP course is run, I think it is worth a lot more than what they are asking for. I have spent a lot of money on education throughout my life and this one stands out in its quality and integrity.

 I personally got a lot more than what I expected from the course. The content of their books only hints at what the course will cover. The best thing is that you can repeat the course as many times as you like for free. Every time I check the forum I come back with some new pearls of wisdom. It is bit like a treasure hunt.

And I also like their humility and readiness to take on board new approaches.

Happy Trading!


----------



## AverageJoe

Karmen said:


> I am one of Louise Bedford’s disabled mentorees. This is a very personal account of my experience and I make no apologies for that. There have been some unimaginative personal attacks against Louise and that has made me feel very sad and that is why I am writing this. My gratitude goes to the moderators who stepped in and flushed out what should have never shown up at the first place on a well-respected public forum.
> 
> In this country, unlike where I come from, we take the privilege of free speech for granted. But this privilege comes with responsibility and it relies on our maturity as individuals. I would like to see that we do respect and value each other as human beings no matter how different our opinions might be. Judging someone we don’t even know seems to be something we all do without much consideration. Because they happen to be in the public eye does not give us the right to insult them publicly.
> 
> I have read every thing on this thread and I do realise that some of you do have genuine concerns and questions. I also noticed that there is considerable amount of misinformation so it makes it very difficult to discern the truth. I won’t able to answer your questions individually due to my physical limitations but I am sure Louise would be very generous with her time if you ask her nicely. Their web site http://tradinggame.com.au/ will have her contact details. You will also have access to useful information on their web site such as Chris Tate’s blog and Trading Games Newsletter. There is also a section about the Generic Mentor Program System Results, audited by a Registered Company Auditor that you might find useful.
> 
> Well, my story started at the ‘Educated Investor’ bookshop. It is a very good place to visit if you don’t know where to start. I did spend a lot of hours there and picked out a lot of books and to my credit I did actually read them all. In the end I came up with one major decision that changed my life.  I wanted to become a trend following professional trader. By the time I decided to do the Mentor Program, I had already read three of Louise’s books and two of Chris’s among a lot of other books by different authors. I contacted Louise via email and I asked her opinion whether she thinks I will able to cope with the workload given my physical condition. She phoned me on the same day and we had a long chat. I felt understood and inspired. Later, I met Louise and Chris in person. I did not talk to Chris much but I trusted them both all the same. Women tend to be more intuitive with these things and it surely shortcuts the process of elimination.
> 
> I completed Louise Bedford and Chris Tate’s Mentor Program in 2012. I had tried to enroll in the previous year and unfortunately it got sold out within two hours and I had to wait for another year. I just could not believe that exactly one hundred people had beaten me to it! They do give priority to the referrals from past mentorees so it is mainly marketed by word of mouth. I have personally recommended it to a lot of friends.
> 
> You may not know that Louise’s main passion is working with disabled people. She gives them a new hope and eventually a new life. It makes a big difference to us that she has been there herself and she knows exactly what we have to go through day after day. Her resilience and strong spirit what brings her where she is today; a brilliant trader, best selling author of many books and a successful entrepreneur. She is an inspiration for us all.
> 
> Over the years I have come to appreciate her empathic wisdom, care and love. You may not find her courses suitable for your needs, which I respect, but I will not have her integrity questioned.
> 
> In all honesty, The Mentor Program won’t be suitable for a lot of people. If you want to be told exactly what to buy and sell then you will be better off with some of the other providers.
> 
> During the course we do develop a generic MP trading system, which serves as a framework. You will be given all the guidance and encouragement but only you can develop a trading system that will suit your individual needs. Parameters such as your risk profile, your goals, your choice of markets, your choice of instruments, the size of your trading capital, your time frame etc. would need to be taken into account. A trading system is an individual thing and it needs to fit your personality like a glove.
> 
> If Louise or Chris happens to give me an exact copy of their personal trading plans, I would hand it right back to them. It is useless to me, I can’t and I won’t trade exactly like them, I want to trade like me. What impresses me about this course is it is ability to empower individuals to become self-reliant and independent traders. You have to learn to think for yourself.
> 
> And I won’t lie to you; it is hard work. I would treat it as if I am enrolling in a degree course and I would expect the similar amount of blood, sweat and tears to follow. That is if you are really serious about trading. Traders are not made overnight just like any other professional occupation.
> 
> We are not used to paying for quality education. We immediately get suspicious. A friend of mine is doing an online Nutrition course and the cost is around $40,000 and she thinks it is good value and I absolutely agree with her. You usually get what you pay for. Now I know that how the MP course is run, I think it is worth a lot more than what they are asking for. I have spent a lot of money on education throughout my life and this one stands out in its quality and integrity.
> 
> I personally got a lot more than what I expected from the course. The content of their books only hints at what the course will cover. The best thing is that you can repeat the course as many times as you like for free. Every time I check the forum I come back with some new pearls of wisdom. It is bit like a treasure hunt.
> 
> And I also like their humility and readiness to take on board new approaches.
> 
> Happy Trading!





Apart from Louise being a very nice lady ; 

1. Have you started trading using what you have gained from her?
2. Are you making money?
3. Can you provide a recent trade that you took based on her principles/methods that we can have a look with the reasons of entry/exits?

Hmm online nutritional course for $40K, I hope it cures cancer! I am into nutritional as well but I am a consumer that takes the supplements. Didn't cost me a dime to join but then I did not come away with a diploma/degree and it did make me feel good taking these products!


----------



## cynic

After seeing a recent post, I thought this might be a timely occasion to bump this thread.


----------



## stevo2

AverageJoe said:


> Apart from Louise being a very nice lady ;
> 
> 1. Have you started trading using what you have gained from her?
> 2. Are you making money?
> 3. Can you provide a recent trade that you took based on her principles/methods that we can have a look with the reasons of entry/exits?
> 
> Hmm online nutritional course for $40K, I hope it cures cancer! I am into nutritional as well but I am a consumer that takes the supplements. Didn't cost me a dime to join but then I did not come away with a diploma/degree and it did make me feel good taking these products!




Hello Average Joe

I did the Mentor course a couple of years ago and endorse Karmen’s comments.

Your comment "_Apart from Louise being a very nice lady"_ suggests that you need to read the post again.

Undoubtedly Karmen ended the course with a different trading plan to me, but as you requested a recent trade example I’ve been in ALL for a couple of years based on my plan. As for reason of entry/exits you’ll have to do the course.

Cheers Ian


----------



## MrHoy

I think what Average Joe was asking is Karmen and yourself making a worthwhile profit as a result of doing the course.


----------



## Johny5

I have read a few of her books, I thought that those books revealed all the Secrets, "Trading Secrets", "Charting Secrets", "The Secret of Candlestick Charting", " The Secret of Writing Options". I found the books to be well written but a little trading 101 for me. But alas it appears that I need to attend one of her courses to learn how to apply all those Secrets. I have been tempted to attend a course or join the mentor program, after all only $7K and a little bit of my time to get a return of possibly many many millions, the course will pay for itself in a week. Before I enroll I should check the credentials of Louise Bedford, but I cant seem to find out much independent concrete financial or trading performance information, some TV appearances, testimonials on her website, some reviews on other websites, but are those sources really independent. Hey what about her net worth, surely someone who has been a killer trader for more than a decade should rate on the rich lists, nope cant find her, maybe Im just not a good researcher. So if someone on this forum can independently validate her earnings from trading (not training and publishing) and I do mean factual provable figures backed up with actual trades i.e. CHESS contract statements and the figures show consistently good profits, I will enroll in her mentor program, otherwise I will give it a miss.


----------



## Country Lad

Johny5 said:


> .....can independently validate her earnings from trading (not training and publishing) and I do mean factual provable figures backed up with actual trades




Ha ha, good luck with that


----------



## zac

Ive done the rounds with courses, research since around 2011. You'll see my newb questions from back then. Im still passionate about trading however learnt so much since 2011 and traded so many methods.

I have no idea what Louise teaches exactly, one thing ive learnt however is these education companies largely make their money through education and turn over of clients. Then theres ones that are affiliated with brokers and get commissions for all the clients and trades they refer.

Im not knocking Louise Bedfords course, im providing a general statement about overall courses.
There are good ones out there however understand most clients dont succeed and while some of the courses are worth while they are foundation at best.

I got to know a few educators for different companies and earnt their trust so its amazing whats touted publicly versus their true mission.


----------



## Johny5

zac said:


> I got to know a few educators for different companies and earnt their trust so its amazing whats touted publicly versus their true mission.




I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations


----------



## zac

Johny5 said:


> I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations



Essentially what the client thinks they need to hear. Marketing and sales.

I want to design a course run through WEA or similar to give people insight into these seminars that are designed to make you money (them money). Essentially arm people with knowledge so they are making an informed choice and not falling for a sales pitch.


----------



## Trader X

zac said:


> Ive done the rounds with courses, research since around 2011. You'll see my newb questions from back then. Im still passionate about trading however learnt so much since 2011 and traded so many methods.
> 
> I have no idea what Louise teaches exactly, one thing ive learnt however is these education companies largely make their money through education and turn over of clients. Then theres ones that are affiliated with brokers and get commissions for all the clients and trades they refer.
> 
> Im not knocking Louise Bedfords course, im providing a general statement about overall courses.
> There are good ones out there however understand most clients dont succeed and while some of the courses are worth while they are foundation at best.
> 
> I got to know a few educators for different companies and earnt their trust so its amazing whats touted publicly versus their true mission.



Having once again faced the onslaught of the marketing campaign launched by Louise for the Mentor Program I will make the following observations for those contemplating this repeat for free course...

1) It's very expensive (was $15k, will find out tomorrow) and additionally requires the purchase of Beyond Charts along with other materials
2) Testimonials from attendees who spend this kind of money tend to exhibit extreme bias with little detail beyond "just do it"
3) Louise is quite engaging in person, her marketing and trading psychology skills are excellent, her books and material are introductory in nature. She lays the groundwork for the first 3 months of the course.
4) Chris Tate, very knowledgeable but his personality can be intimidating, his ego and eccentricities may put some offside and he could care less how you feel about that.
5) It seems the ultimate goal is to instruct on how to construct an individual trading plan coupled with some trading strategies that are not revealed to the public.

While I am quite happy to consume their published materials, I personally can't justify spending $15k+ on such a course.  However, it will no doubt be quite useful for those who want to learn how to trade the markets in a structured program format.  While I don't know what the cap is on numbers, let's assume 50 attendees, that's quite a nice payoff for 3 months effort.  No need to trade when you can bank that kind of money every year teaching others how to.  No doubt that's one reason why Chris Tate can afford to fly first class on overseas trips as he boasts about doing in one of his videos.  They are both in the education business, trading would just be icing on the cake now.


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## zac

Trader X said:


> Having once again faced the onslaught of the marketing campaign launched by Louise for the Mentor Program I will make the following observations for those contemplating this repeat for free course...



Hi Trader X,

Ive been trading for over 10 years and still learning. 10 years ago I would have been pro course to anyone. Having done paid courses and done countless preview seminar-type courses (ie the sales pitch).
Id now tell someone to reconsider doing a paid course.
The landscape in those 10 years has changed significantly. 
You can get so much for free now online or at negligible cost.
In my opinion, where the courses are great is where it consolidates learnings and provide some specialist/advanced teachings.
Learning online can be overwhelming too as where do you start.

The other thing is trading courses are secretive to an extent with what they teach and what you'll be required to do to be successful. End of the day if what they teach you doesn't gel with you, it's never going to work for you.

PM me am happy to discuss and help you make an informed decision based on what I've seen in my time.


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## tech/a

Its pretty clear why people run seminars.
A few book sales help---a lot. The MO is always similar.
*Introductory* for a pittance (Screening Prospects) who
pay to be screened
*Intermediary* for a modest sum in the $1000s (More Filtering)
who pay to be screened further.
*Professional* For $10s of '000s The final target market. 

I remember booking to hear Darryl Guppy. Back 20 years ago,
The room took 150 people and was booked for 3 consecutive
nights and it was $150 a head. $22500 a night or $67500 for
the Three nights intro to trading talks. (450 People)

Not bad for a week.

There is only ONE motivation for seminars and that is *MONEY.*

You want to make it and they KNOW HOW to make money and its not through trading.

Its really easy to impress people who know NOTHING ,particularly with analysis and 
really impressive when you can show chart after chart in hind-site clearly demonstrating 
how IT WORKS!

If they are that good why dont they trade their own accounts and keep their "Secrets" to
themselves.
(1) *There are no secrets*
(2) They make more from seminars than trading.

Looking at some Back of Drink Coaster numbers.
Lets say an average of $40K a week. Forget tax
for 48 weeks $1.92 Million a year.

If you could return 20% you'll need a Bank Roll of around $10 million.
Running sold out seminars and courses are ZERO risk. Return on investment
is massive. Its just good business.

How often do you see people raving about a seminar or something they learnt?
From someone they paid to learn from?-----Never---Why do you think that is?


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## zac

tech/a said:


> If they are that good why dont they trade their own accounts and keep their "Secrets" to
> themselves.



One trading education company (about 5 years ago) began a fund where its clients dived into it and it was going to trade the fund with the same strategies taught to students.
I thought that shows some balls, if the fund doesn't do well it will ruin the whole company.

Anyway, a couple of years later the fund wasn't heard of anymore, neither the education company.


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## wayneL

tech/a said:


> Its pretty clear why people run seminars.
> A few book sales help---a lot. The MO is always similar.
> *Introductory* for a pittance (Screening Prospects) who
> pay to be screened
> *Intermediary* for a modest sum in the $1000s (More Filtering)
> who pay to be screened further.
> *Professional* For $10s of '000s The final target market.
> 
> I remember booking to hear Darryl Guppy. Back 20 years ago,
> The room took 150 people and was booked for 3 consecutive
> nights and it was $150 a head. $22500 a night or $67500 for
> the Three nights intro to trading talks. (450 People)
> 
> Not bad for a week.
> 
> There is only ONE motivation for seminars and that is *MONEY.*
> 
> You want to make it and they KNOW HOW to make money and its not through trading.
> 
> Its really easy to impress people who know NOTHING ,particularly with analysis and
> really impressive when you can show chart after chart in hind-site clearly demonstrating
> how IT WORKS!
> 
> If they are that good why dont they trade their own accounts and keep their "Secrets" to
> themselves.
> (1) *There are no secrets*
> (2) They make more from seminars than trading.
> 
> Looking at some Back of Drink Coaster numbers.
> Lets say an average of $40K a week. Forget tax
> for 48 weeks $1.92 Million a year.
> 
> If you could return 20% you'll need a Bank Roll of around $10 million.
> Running sold out seminars and courses are ZERO risk. Return on investment
> is massive. Its just good business.
> 
> How often do you see people raving about a seminar or something they learnt?
> From someone they paid to learn from?-----Never---Why do you think that is?



And it ain't as easy returning 20% with ten million as less than one million.


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## Trader X

tech/a said:


> There is only ONE motivation for seminars and that is *MONEY.*
> 
> You want to make it and they KNOW HOW to make money and its not through trading.
> 
> Its really easy to impress people who know NOTHING ,particularly with analysis and
> really impressive when you can show chart after chart in hind-site clearly demonstrating
> how IT WORKS!
> 
> If they are that good why dont they trade their own accounts and keep their "Secrets" to
> themselves.
> (1) *There are no secrets*
> (2) They make more from seminars than trading.




Money may not be the only motivation but certainly the primary one.  I attended an introductory 1 day "Retire Early" seminar a few years ago just to gain some insight into what Bedford and Tate were offering.  It was booked out.  I took away a few learnings but it became clear that the primary purpose was to market their Mentor Program.  At one point they passed around trading plans created by previous participants in their program, allowed attendees to view them for 5 minutes, then collected them.  At that moment it became crystal clear I was participating in a marketing event rather than an purely education event. The Facebook page created for attendees was just more confirmation they were pitching for new business.

Their angle is a bit different, more like they give you the basics, cover off various trading strategies and instruments, review your trading plan and send you on your way.  Access to their private members forum revealed very poor participation and little information sharing.  ASF is a far better resource.

I think mentoring is useful if you can find someone you can trust with a proven track record, not easy.  No doubt they trade their own accounts but their primary source of income is their "repeat for free" seminar course.  Begs the questions, why would you need to repeat, how long will free repeats be available and what value would you put on this.  I suspect they would not welcome to many requests to repeat a once a year event for free.


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