# Living abroad and then moving back



## Akaaka (19 January 2017)

Hello ASF,

I am new to investing and am having trouble trying to find information about the complications of an Australian living abroad (Japan) and investing.  

I'm leaning towards opening a brokerage account in Japan and investing (more internationally than locally) just to avoid international income taxes BUT I am curious about the logistics of when I move back to Australia.  

Do I have to transfer the investments to Australia, to an Australian brokerage (again to avoid the hassle of international income taxes) and if so is that a difficult process?  If not, what would be suggested for when I move back to Australia?

Thanks


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## So_Cynical (19 January 2017)

Its somewhat complex with a lot depending on your tax residency, when you change tax residency you kind of have to finish up tax wise in that location.


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## joekim87 (3 March 2017)

Hello everyone! I am also in the same situation but in South Korea. I would definitely like to know more~


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## Akaaka (4 March 2017)

Thank you So_Cynical for your quick reply.  I thought I had replied until joekim87's notification came up.

I'm a little hazy on the "nuts and bolts" of it all.

What would the process be for transferring the account?  Do I even need to transfer it?

Does anyone know of a good site that can go into the details or of a professional I can get in contact with?


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## rb250660 (4 March 2017)

Are you "an Australian resident for tax purposes"?


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## Akaaka (7 March 2017)

As of now, I only pay taxes in Japan. I am not an Australian resident for tax purposes.


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## jenisa (8 March 2017)

This interesting to follow because my husband and i will be moving back in 2 years exactly.


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## ReXXar (5 July 2017)

Interesting post, let us know if you find out anything. I also live overseas but I trade Australian stocks using my Australian brokers account.


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## dyna (15 May 2021)

This from Tuesday's Budget. Not L...A...W.. Law, just yet, but who knows how much of it will be?
The ATO wants a "4 factor test" to determine tax residency and then limit an expat to just 45 days in the country, before getting hit up for income tax.
You will have to be O.S. for 3 years to escape the ATO which could still claim you're a tax resident for any 2 of the 4 "factors" :      1. Australian citizenship (with right to reside here, permanently).
                                  2.Australian accommodation.
                                  3.Spouse or dependent children, still here.
                                  4. Economic interests here, including any property.

Economic interests?   Today's Weekend AFR article's not clear about that. Could it include Super? Probably.


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## Dona Ferentes (15 May 2021)

There was something in the Budget about Superannuation (but only around the edges) _.... _*Basically, get professional advice. It costs, but failure to get it right is worse..  *

The government will scrap the so-called active member test for self-managed super funds, meaning trustees based temporarily overseas can top up their Australian retirement savings.

Measures in the 2021 federal budget detail a relaxation of the “residency requirements” for SMSFs and small, prudentially regulated super funds. SMSF trustees living overseas will be able to maintain control of their funds for five years, up from two years previously, and the active member test will be removed for both fund types.



> “_This measure will allow SMSF and SAF [small APRA-regulated fund] members to continue to contribute to their superannuation fund whilst temporarily overseas, ensuring parity with members of large APRA-regulated funds_,” the budget documents explained.





> “_This will provide SMSF and SAF members the flexibility to keep and continue to contribute to their preferred fund while undertaking overseas work and education opportunities._”



... temporary relief issued by the Tax Office to SMSF trustees stranded overseas due to COVID-19 provided a successful litmus test for the “introduction of a more practical application of SMSF residency rules that has not resulted in negative outcomes”.


> “_This measure is estimated to have a small but unquantifiable impact on the underlying cash balance over the forward estimates period_,” the budget documents stated.


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## qldfrog (15 May 2021)

dyna said:


> This from Tuesday's Budget. Not L...A...W.. Law, just yet, but who knows how much of it will be?
> The ATO wants a "4 factor test" to determine tax residency and then limit an expat to just 45 days in the country, before getting hit up for income tax.
> You will have to be O.S. for 3 years to escape the ATO which could still claim you're a tax resident for any 2 of the 4 "factors" :      1. Australian citizenship (with right to reside here, permanently).
> 2.Australian accommodation.
> ...



Bastards


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## Gunnerguy (15 May 2021)

dyna said:


> This from Tuesday's Budget. Not L...A...W.. Law, just yet, but who knows how much of it will be?
> The ATO wants a "4 factor test" to determine tax residency and then limit an expat to just 45 days in the country, before getting hit up for income tax.
> You will have to be O.S. for 3 years to escape the ATO which could still claim you're a tax resident for any 2 of the 4 "factors" :      1. Australian citizenship (with right to reside here, permanently).
> 2.Australian accommodation.
> ...



Not much of a change except for the 45 day bit. These 4  ‘residence’ factors plus another 3 or 4 have be the ‘consideration’ if you are a resident for  many years. It been a grey are for a long time that accountants always advise on.
Alas, assets earning income in OZ, are already taxed here eg an IP.
In addition, you are unable to be a Trustee of a SMSF, if you are a non resident, you have to elect someone to ‘manager’ you SMSF.
Not too keen on the 45 day business.
I’m interested to look in to this just fir personal interest.
GG


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## qldfrog (17 May 2021)

Gunnerguy said:


> Not much of a change except for the 45 day bit. These 4  ‘residence’ factors plus another 3 or 4 have be the ‘consideration’ if you are a resident for  many years. It been a grey are for a long time that accountants always advise on.
> Alas, assets earning income in OZ, are already taxed here eg an IP.
> In addition, you are unable to be a Trustee of a SMSF, if you are a non resident, you have to elect someone to ‘manager’ you SMSF.
> Not too keen on the 45 day business.
> ...



the tax grab of countries is incredible; why would a country be entitled to tax income earn O/S by a person living O/S, yet they all do it, inc the US..but at least, this is for US rates, not Australian..or french rates


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