# 'Fat finger'? ... my ****!



## BradK (7 May 2010)

Anyone know how to put up a poll? I don't believe the fat finger thing for a second. 

Brad


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## Timmy (7 May 2010)

The exchange itself, NASDAQ, has cancelled a bunch of trades:



> NASDAQ has coordinated a process among U.S. Exchanges and therefore, pursuant to rule 11890(b), NASDAQ, on its own motion, will cancel all trades executed between 14:40:00 and 15:00:00 greater than or less than 60% away from the consolidated last print in that security at 14:40:00 or immediately prior.




 & does it really matter what anyone believes?



> This decision cannot be appealed.




http://www.nasdaq.com/newsroom/news...ONEUSPRX___191255.htm&year=05/06/2010 +8:27PM

Awaiting a similar announcement from the NYSE, haven't seen one yet.


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## vincent191 (7 May 2010)

I think you have a good point. If I was to sell one million BHP shares I will have to key in 1000000. How can I key in 1000000000 by mistake not not realise it. 

I don't know of any system where you key in 1m instead of 1b in the numeric quantity field. This is only my personal opinion, I have not worked in any of those ivory towers before.


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## Gar (7 May 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if all this is just a "distraction" but I suppose it could have been a verbal error between order placer / order executor


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## >Apocalypto< (7 May 2010)

vincent191 said:


> I think you have a good point. If I was to sell one million BHP shares I will have to key in 1000000. How can I key in 1000000000 by mistake not not realise it.
> 
> I don't know of any system where you key in 1m instead of 1b in the numeric quantity field. This is only my personal opinion, I have not worked in any of those ivory towers before.




ever heard of preset hot keys???


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## Krusty the Klown (7 May 2010)

How about Dyslexia?

Having worked with numbers at a keyboard all day I can see how it could happen. Particularly with keyboards where if you hold the key down characters are continually added to the field.

So Brad, you reckon some short trades were in play? It would be interesting to do some forensic accounting to see.......


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## nunthewiser (7 May 2010)

kinky thread title.


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## moXJO (7 May 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> kinky thread title.




I thought it was about an unfortunate prostate exam


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## nunthewiser (7 May 2010)

moXJO said:


> I thought it was about an unfortunate prostate exam





 I had to say 5 hail marys just to open the thread.


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## Solly (7 May 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> I had to say 5 hail marys just to open the thread.




nun I'm with you on that one as well. Wasn't sure where this  thread was heading either. Always gotta be aware of two hands on the shoulders !


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## doctorj (7 May 2010)

http://www.market-melange.com/2010/05/07/when-liquidity-evaporates/

Another theory about what caused last night's trading - liquidity drying up and electronic orders placed at market.  Very good read.


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## todster (7 May 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> kinky thread title.




LOL LOL


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## zzaaxxss3401 (7 May 2010)

doctorj said:


> http://www.market-melange.com/2010/05/07/when-liquidity-evaporates/
> 
> Another theory about what caused last night's trading - liquidity drying up and electronic orders placed at market.  Very good read.




The reason for this f**kup appears to be in the CNBC video:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1487130975&play=1

And the Lemmings in Australia continue to follow the US over the cliff! Computers in the US produce "erroneous trades" which then wipe millions/billions from our market. Great! Thank goodness I'm in cash.


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## Dowdy (7 May 2010)

Fat finger?! 

Was he trading Weight Watchers stock (NYSE:WTW)?


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## subasurf (7 May 2010)

vincent191 said:


> I think you have a good point. If I was to sell one million BHP shares I will have to key in 1000000. How can I key in 1000000000 by mistake not not realise it.
> 
> I don't know of any system where you key in 1m instead of 1b in the numeric quantity field. This is only my personal opinion, I have not worked in any of those ivory towers before.




You're assuming they use the same trading platforms as you.
What if they have preset keys for thousands, millions and billions. Certainly doesn't excuse the "mistake", but it may explain it.


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## Dowdy (7 May 2010)

UPDATE: It wasn't a mistake!

Found the audio from the trading pits. Multiple selling from several major players triggered all the small guys to panic.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/panic-and-loathing-sp-500-pits



> "Guys this is probably the craziest I have seen it down here ever." Here it is, memorialized for the generations and away from the now openly ridiculous disinformation propaganda of the mainstream media, just what a full market meltdown panic sounds like: straight from the epicenter, the S&P 500 pits. Luckily open ouctry still exists, if at least for shock value. Click here for a first hand account of the most shocking 15 minutes in recent market history. Fat finger my ass.
> 
> h/t Tim


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## kgee (7 May 2010)

on the poll when we get it going
can we have
1. mistake
2. swindle
3. mistake and govt prop up
4. computer meltdown
5. ...
6..
7.


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## Julia (7 May 2010)

Wouldn't it be pretty simple to make that recording after the event?


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## bellenuit (7 May 2010)

It beggars belief that a brokers trading computer system that can place trades on the market doesn't have some sort of simple validation on orders placed. Such as - if an order value or quantity is more than double the average for that stock it prompts "are you sure" before placing it on the market. I'm picking double as an example and that may not be the right choice, but there should be no way that an order could be placed that could trigger the greatest points plunge in the Dow history without some sort of check mechanism. Pressing B instead of M is pure *$^%4$.


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## kgee (8 May 2010)

Does anyone know?
To me its out of the ordinary?
I spose we talk about the half glass

1. its sinister and a manipulation
2. its innoccent and  a blunder

why does option 2 seem so incredible

how can any one singular person be responsible for a trillion dollar sell down?
I say name and shame , give us a paper trail
how many billion dollar companies are their that you can put a sell order in for?
look I;m as ignorant as your local garbo ;
but ...1000 billion ??? 1. person??
either way I give this story merit
enjoy all the feeds and links coming in, again how can channel 9 carry that as their 4 th story?


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## Timmy (8 May 2010)

Solly said:


> Always gotta be aware of two hands on the shoulders !




And/or ankles.


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## kgee (8 May 2010)

No.*8
Sado 
Masochists


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## >Apocalypto< (8 May 2010)

I belive it was a mistake or Interactive Brokers would not put up this Bulletin


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## nulla nulla (8 May 2010)

moXJO said:


> I thought it was about an unfortunate prostate exam




Ouch


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## BradK (8 May 2010)

Hi guys, 

Just got back to this thread... it was about a prostate test gone all wrong!!! What the hell are you all talking about? What is this talk about a market meltdown? There was a global meltdown?? 

Anyway, I am going back to bed to lay down... cant sit. 

Brad


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## pixel (8 May 2010)

Well, there has been rumour that the slump was caused by a broker selling $3 Billion instead of $3 Million worth of Procter & Gamble.
Can't verify that on the chart though - unless some of those trades have been cancelled immediately.
The pattern of trades in the 1-minute grid looks more like a deliberate stop raid than a one-off glitch. Had it been the latter, the drop would have happened within seconds, rather than take 4 minutes.
The red arrow preceding the plunge came in at 14:47; 10 minutes later, 100 shares were still being sold at $61.63, whereas the Low was reached at 15:03 and lasted 2 minutes before the next 100 shares were bought at 15:05 for $59.00 

btw, I checked a few other contenders with similar results.

On examining the Procter & Gamble chart more closely, I then noticed the height of the bulk of volume bars. They're all sitting on 100 shares. Now, if it were an orderly, human-controlled market, what would be the odds of every trader wanting exactly 100 shares?
But 100 shares a minute - that really screams*'bot!'* - aka 'ro*bot*ic program trades'.

And remember: Every computer program is only as good and reliable as the programmer who wrote it.







PS: The funny thing, regarding the planned reversals of trades between 14:40 and 15:00, is this: *The Low of the raid occurred at around 15:05*, so if the authorities were serious about reversing the unjustified gains, they'd reverse the entire last hour and a half. But that might well defeat the manipulators' purpose.


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## Timmy (11 June 2010)

Some new 'circuit breakers' being introduced in response to the flash crash.  

If one accepts the legitimacy of circuit breakers then the fact that they only applied to certain exchanges 
and not to others (and therefore orders that could not be executed on an exchange which had suspended 
trading were rerouted to exchanges where the order could be executed) seems to nullify the whole point 
of a circuit breaker.  To my meagre understanding anyway. 
These new regulations address this issue (amongst other things, of course).

If one doesn't accept the legitimacy of circuit breakers then thats a whole different discussion.



> SEC puts in new 'circuit breaker' rules
> 
> ... SEC Chairman Mary Schapiro said in a statement. "By establishing a set of circuit breakers
> that uniformly pauses trading in a given security *across all venues*, ....




My bolding.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9G8IS9O0.htm


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## Timmy (11 June 2010)

Julia said:


> Wouldn't it be pretty simple to make that recording after the event?




I suppose it would be pretty simple, but I don't think he would get away with it.

The service is Traders Audio and its been around for a while.  Each day the pits are open they broadcast the action, either a straight-out broadcast without commentary, or a commentated broadcast, like the example mp3 file.  So they do have their credibility to preserve, and making a recording after the event would open them up to all sorts of accusations and probably a severe loss of business.  It wouldn't take long for someone to call them on a bogus recording, I would imagine.


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