# Let us spare a thought for our Victorian ASF Members



## Garpal Gumnut (24 July 2020)

Let us spare a thought for our Victorian ASF members this weekend. 

gg


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## Dona Ferentes (24 July 2020)

and for all the hearing impaired, those for whom lip reading has become much more problematic.


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## SirRumpole (24 July 2020)

Indeed. All the best guys and gals, it's going to be tough, but it will all be over one day.

At least the new cases don't seem to be exponentially increasing at the moment, and lets hope the mask rules reduce the spread.

As for the people who break the rules (ASF members or not), you are a bunch of idiots.


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## macca (24 July 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> and for all the hearing impaired, those for whom lip reading has become much more problematic.




All sorts of unexpected problems will crop up, patience and cooperation is all we need to offer.

Easy to do if the will is there but sadly, so many people are very self centred


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## wayneL (24 July 2020)

At least martial law has been instituted for the dissenters.


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## cynic (24 July 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> and for all the hearing impaired, those for whom lip reading has become much more problematic.



Doubtless the genii behind this will grant the hearing impaired an exemption!

Edit: And it will be celebrated as the best thing since the invention of motorbike ashtrays!


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## jbocker (25 July 2020)

A mate I know who lives in Melb sent me a photo, he has a set of masks on the hat rack in the hallway for parents and kids.
To help him I sent him check list. He is avid Collingwood.
Hat.               Check.
Sunscreen.     Check.
Mask.             Check.
Teeth.            Check. 
Eagles Scarf.   Check.


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## cynic (25 July 2020)

jbocker said:


> A mate I know who lives in Melb sent me a photo, he has a set of masks on the hat rack in the hallway for parents and kids.
> To help him I sent him check list. He is avid Collingwood.
> Hat.               Check.
> Sunscreen.     Check.
> ...



Go the pies!!!


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## Knobby22 (26 July 2020)

459 cases 10 deaths, one in his forties. Getting scary.


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## Smurf1976 (26 July 2020)

Whilst this is happening in Victoria, it needs to be seen as a national problem and approached accordingly in my view.

Much as we've done with every other disaster for at least half a century be that fire, flood, bridges collapsing or whatever. Don't argue about the detail of state borders and who's paying, just do whatever can be done.


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## jbocker (27 July 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Whilst this is happening in Victoria, it needs to be seen as a national problem and approached accordingly in my view.
> 
> Much as we've done with every other disaster for at least half a century be that fire, flood, bridges collapsing or whatever. Don't argue about the detail of state borders and who's paying, just do whatever can be done.



Absolutely Agree!! It would be the most un-Australian thing to do to not help our Victorian mates.


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## qldfrog (27 July 2020)

And be ready in advance to open our icu in qld wa for southern Australia patients in the coming months.
We had terrible examples in France of patients airlifted or driven to free hospital beds outside cluster zones and being sent back as they lacked paperwork..make sure it does not happen here.
we are seing our first  and probably only wave on its way


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## IFocus (27 July 2020)

Thoughts also for the health working risking it all on the front line with out them...........


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## jbocker (27 July 2020)

qldfrog said:


> And be ready in advance to open our icu in qld wa for southern Australia patients in the coming months.
> We had terrible examples in France of patients airlifted or driven to free hospital beds outside cluster zones and being sent back as they lacked paperwork..make sure it does not happen here.
> we are seing our first  and probably only wave on its way



We have managed KNOWN cases exceptionally well in Australia. I dont think importing the sick into dedicated hospital wards should be an issue, if the Victorian facilities cannot keep up. I pray that they don't get to that level, but my fear is, it is not looking good. I trust the other states are working on the logistics NOW in unison.


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## Dona Ferentes (27 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Thoughts also for the health working risking it all on the front line with out them...........



Mr Andrews said around 400 health workers currently have a coronavirus infection. (Today's press conference)


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## IFocus (27 July 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> Mr Andrews said around 400 health workers currently have a coronavirus infection. (Today's press conference)




Tragically a number of them will died and many will have on going problems preventing their return to work / normal life.

Not many occupations where that is acceptable these days.

Riles me that the cause is failure to just do the basics and follow the rules like the inconvenience of wearing a mask for the sake of others.


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## Purple XS2 (27 July 2020)

I am by any definition, both from and now in, Victoria (northern 'burbs of Melb), although I self-identify as Tasmanian, having in a past time time also self identified as a Territorian. I've never actualy used the adjective "Victorian".

I get really depressed every morning when I look up the daily disaster stats.

Oh well, as Her Majesty who reigns over us said: "We'll meet again ..."

Dunno how the rest of ASF sees things, but seems to me the only thing that's stopped a vigorous demonstration of the public ill-will to the Andrews / ALP government, is the fact we're all locked down. 
Otherwise the rotten fruit would be flying thick and fast.

Stay well,
P


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## moXJO (28 July 2020)

It seems weird that it went so out of control in Victoria. Andrews didn't exactly go in soft at the beginning. He probably had harsher measures then nsw.


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## qldfrog (28 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> It seems weird that it went so out of control in Victoria. Andrews didn't exactly go in soft at the beginning. He probably had harsher measures then nsw.



Weather and temperature


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## IFocus (28 July 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Weather and temperature




Those may have a bearing however not really proven as the northern hemisphere is having major issues with infection rates, still maybe they will increase with the onset of winter.

The major issue is people and their behaviour its the only way the virus will spread.


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## satanoperca (28 July 2020)

I am from Vic, Andrews simply fu--kd up and we all have to pay. 
He has passed the buck onto all Victorians, but it would seem he could not organise a root in a brothel.
Somehow he thought people would comply, how dumb is this guy, if that was the case we wouldn't need the police, goals or courts, really, wake up!
The buck stops with him.


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## Knobby22 (28 July 2020)

He passed all the right laws but that's not enough. Where it all want wrong was managing it.


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## IFocus (28 July 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> He passed all the right laws but that's not enough. Where it all want wrong was managing it.




WA did the same and everyone complied hence no virus.......yet,  fault is with the people themselves IMHO.


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## Dona Ferentes (2 August 2020)

*Stage 4*. A disastrous state... In metro Melbourne. Country areas still at 3.


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## qldfrog (2 August 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> *Stage 4*. A disastrous state... In metro Melbourne. Country areas still at 3.



Welcome to the first wave Australia.
Let's hope the icu  here learnt from the European experience and do treat people correctly even if it means agreeing with the orange man


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## basilio (2 August 2020)

This is a truly courageous decision by  Dan Andrews..

*Imposing an 8pm to 5am curfew across Melbourne.* Just thinking of the  hundreds of thousands of households with teenagers effectively grounded for the next 6 weeks.  This is going to be such a test.

The conversations across the city will be very interesting..


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## cynic (2 August 2020)




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## SirRumpole (2 August 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Welcome to the first wave Australia.
> Let's hope the icu  here learnt from the European experience and do treat people correctly even if it means agreeing with the orange man




What does that mean ?


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## qldfrog (3 August 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> What does that mean ?



https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1
That because Trump props a cheap drug which does not bring a fortune to big pharmas does not mean it is not effective in early treatment
Then

Right now in France,it is taken as a given the virus propagation is affected as the flu by temp moisture level.
 proven scientifically as well but here it is a taboo
A whole article on the ABC about meat processing factories clusters did not even mention the moist and cold environment.
No one seems to understand it is a wet and cold time in Victoria.dohhh
I just hope our medical teams are not reading the Guardian,Who's recommandations or the ABC as their sources of info and are liaising with their European colleagues for down to Earth working processes.
The fatality rate has fallen substantially there.
Learn from others mistakes and benefit from their learnings
To be honest, that is the part i am scared of.


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## qldfrog (3 August 2020)

And for our southern members,what is the risk of taking a vit D supplement ?


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## basilio (3 August 2020)

qldfrog said:


> And for our southern members,what is the risk of taking a vit D supplement ?




Totally agree. Vit D does offer some value in terms of bolstering immune systems.

But unfortunately it won't stop the spread of the virus and its questionable how well it can ease the consequences .  Not a magic bullet by any means but worth taking.


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## macca (3 August 2020)

basilio said:


> Totally agree. Vit D does offer some value in terms of bolstering immune systems.
> 
> But unfortunately it won't stop the spread of the virus and its questionable how well it can ease the consequences .  Not a magic bullet by any means but worth taking.




I have posted it before in one of the many Covid threads but a brief summary is

Normal VitD is about 50, 40 is borderline, below 30 increases your chance of dying by 7 Times, below 20 increases your chance of dying by 12 Times

These are figures from hospitals on their Covid Patients

Ideal levels are around 80 so supplements are recommended OS, winter sun really is not going to help in Vic though it will in Qld


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## Smurf1976 (3 August 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Right now in France,it is taken as a given the virus propagation is affected as the flu by temp moisture level.
> proven scientifically as well but here it is a taboo



I recall speculation about that being discussed on this forum right at the start of the whole thing (February or thereabouts).

I'm no doctor but life experience certainly tells me that colds and flu are things you get in winter primarily. Getting one in summer isn't unheard of but it's far less common at least in the southern parts of the country where winter is not only the colder season but also the time when there's more water around.


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## Smurf1976 (3 August 2020)

basilio said:


> Vit D does offer some value in terms of bolstering immune systems.
> 
> But unfortunately it won't stop the spread of the virus and its questionable how well it can ease the consequences . Not a magic bullet by any means but worth taking.




How much should one take if it's to have any benefit?


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## satanoperca (3 August 2020)

macca said:


> I have posted it before in one of the many Covid threads but a brief summary is
> 
> Normal VitD is about 50, 40 is borderline, below 30 increases your chance of dying by 7 Times, below 20 increases your chance of dying by 12 Times
> 
> ...




Vitamin D = Sunlight, do you know how long I need sunlight exposure in Victoria for my body to generate an acceptable level of Vit D.


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## macca (3 August 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> How much should one take if it's to have any benefit?




The most common product is Vitamin D3 1000iu, I buy a bottle of 200 from Blackmores when on special, it is relatively cheap. 

The caps are small and slippery so everyone can take them.

All the discount chemists and Coles or WW have it, you can buy 400iu but better to take the 1000.

It has been tested in the USA and it gives better protection from most Upper Respiratory Tract Infections if taken each day through the season which means starting asap has benefits.

Tests show that it also works against colds, flu and bronchitis and unlike the flu vaccine it works against all strains of the flu, not just the four that they picked this year for the vaccine.

Somewhere I have posted the links to the UK studies, they are so impressive that the Covid  frontline medical workers are now given free Vitamin D to take each day


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## macca (3 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Vitamin D = Sunlight, do you know how long I need sunlight exposure in Victoria for my body to generate an acceptable level of Vit D.




No, I have read that in summer in NSW that we need about 20 mins per day (not between 10-2, too hot) but in winter in Victoria I would be spending $20 to be sure I am getting something.

You get 200 in the bottle so they last a fair while, it took me a year to go from 40 to 80 so it is a slow process.

They did test for effect by just taking them over the USA winter flu season and they work very well if taken daily even if the body is low.

It is not bulletproof, you can still get Covid but research shows it should ease the severity


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## satanoperca (3 August 2020)

Macca, 
I don't want to be rude, and hardly know the exact science, but I suspect getting 20min of sunlight exposure will always bet a pill in a bottle.

I subscribe to the idea that sunlight is necessary for our immune system to be robust, that is how we evolved of 10,000's of years.


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## qldfrog (3 August 2020)

And about the weather effect, causes are actually compounded
If cold and rainy, no sun, so no vitamin D;
Then less outside activities so people stay indoors where they gather in close proximities and so increased transmission
Added to that, the moisture and lower temperature extends the life of the virus outside the body so
the basic explanation of flu hitting toward the end of winter;
Lower vitamin D reserves,weaker bodies and culmination of peak propagation.
Hope it helps, not a doctor but i like figures and real science


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 August 2020)

qldfrog said:


> And about the weather effect, causes are actually compounded
> If cold and rainy, no sun, so no vitamin D;
> Then less outside activities so people stay indoors where they gather in close proximities and so increased transmission
> Added to that, the moisture and lower temperature extends the life of the virus outside the body so
> ...




Although, being aware that one must never be afraid to change one's mind @qldfrog , should new information or data cast a shadow on your cognitive presumptions, is very important. There are many peer reviewed articles out there which are not valid. 

It's called novel coronavirus because it is new. My estimation is that it has a few tricks for us yet, and as you say one should be open to the scientific method. 

_From Wikipedia. 

The *scientific method* is an empirical method of acquiring knowledge that has characterized the development of science since at least the 17th century. It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental and measurement-based testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. These are principles of the scientific method, as distinguished from a definitive series of steps applicable to all scientific enterprises.

Though diverse models for the scientific method are available, there is in general a continuous process that includes observations about the natural world. People are naturally inquisitive, so they often come up with questions about things they see or hear, and they often develop ideas or hypotheses about why things are the way they are. The best hypotheses lead to predictions that can be tested in various ways. The most conclusive testing of hypotheses comes from reasoning based on carefully controlled experimental data. Depending on how well additional tests match the predictions, the original hypothesis may require refinement, alteration, expansion or even rejection. If a particular hypothesis becomes very well supported, a general theory may be developed._

gg


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## macca (3 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Macca,
> I don't want to be rude, and hardly know the exact science, but I suspect getting 20min of sunlight exposure will always bet a pill in a bottle.
> 
> I subscribe to the idea that sunlight is necessary for our immune system to be robust, that is how we evolved of 10,000's of years.




Not rude at all, we are here to discuss things not to lecture (well most of us)

I agree about sunshine, in days gone by most of the well respected hospitals had areas where people were wheeled out each day to sit in the sun.

Sanitariums for the chronically ill always had lawns and gardens, there are many photos showing convalescing servicemen and women after the wars all sitting out in the sun.

The problems started when we all moved indoors and the Slip Slop Slap campaign became the norm, there are many children today that are actually Vit D deficient which is not surprising.

When I was a kid we left home after breakfast with the instruction to be home before dark, we were always in the sun. 

I am paying for that now, ATM I have 10 stitches in me where I have had two sun spots cut out. Two months ago exactly the same thing, so my kids see me getting these things frozen and cut every year and cover my grandkids up to prevent it.

It is a balancing act, Doctors are actually saying that the SSS campaign is too effective and needs to be wound back a bit.

I think that Vitamin D should be tested when people get their annual blood tests, if it is below 50 then buy a bottle of D3. 

Consider the damage to the economy every winter with colds and flu, if everyone was aware of the importance of Vit D they could be sure to get some sun exposure in Autumn to build it up or simply get into the Vit D pills.

I used to get a cold in April/May and sniffle my way through the winter until the hot days started, a bit of sunshine and I would get better.

I stopped going in the sun because of my many skin problems so now I have to supplement my Vit D and I have not had a cold for the 10 years that I have been taking it


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## qldfrog (3 August 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Although, being aware that one must never be afraid to change one's mind @qldfrog , should new information or data cast a shadow on your cognitive presumptions, is very important. There are many peer reviewed articles out there which are not valid.
> 
> It's called novel coronavirus because it is new. My estimation is that it has a few tricks for us yet, and as you say one should be open to the scientific method.
> 
> ...



fully agree GG, and what you do usually is experimental science so you look at a problem, tweak parameters and check if this prove an hypothesis, obviously like with quantic mecanics (english?) previous truth might change so you find experiments to confirm these;
in term of weather influence on covid , the experiments were played in real life all across China then europe; a very basic understanding of local weather will quickly explain why my homeplace was especially hardly hit: cold..but not too cold and extremely wet condition aka caricature of UK weather, no snow, just miserable, the western side was less affected...wet but not so cold and the southern part was warmer;
Then move to Italy and Spain and you will find the same scenario, which also matches in vitro experiments for virus longevity outside the body;
->Which is why the top scientists in France and Europe do not dispute that , it is a given and the bad part is that winter is coming so they are openly worried about that;
_Obviously, our virus must be different_; ROL
This, the story about a so called vaccine against a corona virus are so far away from basic scientific knowledge that I can not trust anything anymore blindly.
Talk about a treatment, a miracle one and i will be all ears, a vaccine: yeah sure, if brought via a time travel machine.. and so on
May the plebe follow the fake science if they want but please , I spent my whole life following scientific processes, that has build both my wealth and position , but my ethic has also caused me trouble more than once: i can not swallow garbage because I am supposed to.
Have we all forgotten how mask were supposed to be useless? People looking at me as if I was an alien in March when I was shopping with protection...
Our government, even WHO was saying: no need for masks..seriously? and I have to put my life in the hands of these jokers?

I wish i was ignorant, but I am not completely so try to understand everything: the vitamin D and Zinc is not just a hippy belief, there are chemical reasons on how it works etc;
Yesterday, I gave figures, I try to post a few facts on FB for example,pure number for perspective, hash hard data->  I had to delete: just figures that no one can or was contesting , but it was too inconvenient a truth..ultimately, i deleted this this morning; so what?  Let them die ?
So for my family and friends, i give them some opinion, when to be scared or not, the actual risks..stats and numbers, not emotions;

My position
*if you are in the at risk group, please take vit D, get some fresh air and sun, use masks when useful..aka inside, in public transports, etc
 definitively follow distancing and hand washing, increase zinc if deficient and maybe even maybe aspirin, which is not a bad idea even outside covid *
Not clear on this one vs covid, I have not looked deep enough there but if I was at risk, I would.just personal opinion
@macca , @Knobby22 any personal feeling about aspirin?
And i believe we can all agree that the above are not recommendations..I am not qualified, but these supplements are likely to be without much risk
Anyway, you can not find anyone more prone to follow proper experimental process.


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## Smurf1976 (3 August 2020)

qldfrog said:


> if you are in the at risk group, please take vit D, get some fresh air and sun, use masks when useful..aka inside, *in public transports*, etc
> definitively follow distancing and hand washing, increase zinc if deficient and maybe even maybe aspirin, which is not a bad idea even outside covid




Emphasis mine.

Off all situations, public transport is one to avoid if possible in my view. If you're able to travel by car, walking or simply avoid traveling at all then doing so would be preferable.

The benefits are not only that you avoid exposing yourself to others who may be infected in a confined space but that you also avoid exposing others in the scenario where you're an asymptomatic carrier. Public transport is particularly problematic given that by its very nature it places substantial numbers of people in very close proximity, indeed in cities it's not unknown that involuntary direct contact with others on trains in particular is unavoidable. Fewer people using it also means those still needing to use it can spread further apart whilst on board.

Buses, trains etc should be left for those with no alternative in my view. If you've got a legitimate need to travel, and have some other means of doing so, then use that other means.


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## qldfrog (3 August 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Emphasis mine.
> 
> Off all situations, public transport is one to avoid if possible in my view. If you're able to travel by car, walking or simply avoid traveling at all then doing so would be preferable.
> 
> ...



a week ago, a carriage for myself to the city and i was wearing a mask so everyone wo mask avoided me...the logic....


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## macca (3 August 2020)

qldfrog said:


> fully agree GG, and what you do usually is experimental science so you look at a problem, tweak parameters and check if this prove an hypothesis, obviously like with quantic mecanics (english?) previous truth might change so you find experiments to confirm these;
> in term of weather influence on covid , the experiments were played in real life all across China then europe; a very basic understanding of local weather will quickly explain why my homeplace was especially hardly hit: cold..but not too cold and extremely wet condition aka caricature of UK weather, no snow, just miserable, the western side was less affected...wet but not so cold and the southern part was warmer;
> Then move to Italy and Spain and you will find the same scenario, which also matches in vitro experiments for virus longevity outside the body;
> ->Which is why the top scientists in France and Europe do not dispute that , it is a given and the bad part is that winter is coming so they are openly worried about that;
> ...




If anyone cares to read my very early posts on Covid you will find that I have been yapping on about all of these things since then.

Taiwan is the expert at surviving nasty bugs from China, they have had a Total of Seven deaths, they started issuing 10 free masks a week back in December.

Vitamin D is a no brainer, supplement or get lots of winter sun, at least 30 mins a day to do any good, still may not be enough. If you have a darker complexion you will need at least double that. 

Aspirin is a proven remedy to stop blood clots so now that we know that Covid can cause blood clots then it makes sense to me to utilise something so well known and cheap.

Zinc is what the Doc in New York used to stall the development of Covid so eat your oysters

Avoid crowds and social distance even with a mask

If the medical profession would start doing positive things instead of running away we may get out of this mess one day.

The bug ain't going away, we Cannot keep shutting down our economy, this latest shutdown is the second of many to come, we simply cannot afford it.


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## basilio (4 August 2020)

If you have friends, family or even just acquaintances in  Melbourne they will certainly appreciate a friendly call.

From my observations/conversations morale in Melbourne is low. The full pressure of Stage 4 ISO with curfew, minimal shops, financial pressures  and concern about the spread of Covid 19 is taking its toll.
Particularly difficult for families with teenagers as well.

Cheers


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## cynic (4 August 2020)




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## IFocus (4 August 2020)

25% failure rate for home quarantine compliance in Victoria, that's nuts no hope of containment if they cannot get to the bottom of it.


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## Smurf1976 (4 August 2020)

basilio said:


> Particularly difficult for families with teenagers as well.




I've heard some dramatically differing reports, from friends and so on, about how people are coping with the whole thing.

At one extreme, grown adults really struggling with the whole thing and just not coping. To be blunt they've pretty much lost the plot it seems in terms of their ability to cope with the whole thing. I've heard a few credible reports of that sort of thing now although I haven't seen it first hand.

At the other extreme, not in Melbourne but I'm assured by the parents that their daughter, who is only in grade 4 at school, primary school that is, is more than capable of holding her own in a serious adult discussion regarding the issue. They're a tad shocked but not drastically - she always seemed clever and focused but any doubt there has now been very clearly removed.

So it seems to be applying the pressure and pushing people in both directions. Those with ability that might otherwise have gone unnoticed for quite some time have come to the fore. Where cracks exist they're turning into gaping holes. Etc.


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## sptrawler (4 August 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I've heard some dramatically differing reports, from friends and so on, about how people are coping with the whole thing.
> 
> At one extreme, grown adults really struggling with the whole thing and just not coping. To be blunt they've pretty much lost the plot it seems in terms of their ability to cope with the whole thing. I've heard a few credible reports of that sort of thing now although I haven't seen it first hand.
> 
> ...



It certainly will be testing peoples coping mechanisms, also a lot will depend on how they have structured their finances, those who live hand to mouth while supporting a expensive lifestyle will be having a massive reality check.
Testing times for all, but the lucky ones, who have an ongoing job through this.
Hopefully the infection numbers drop quickly.


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## basilio (7 August 2020)

Next big crisis in Victoria.
*Coronavirus outbreaks grow in Victorian group homes for people living with disabilities*
More than 70 cases of coronavirus have been recorded in disability care in Victoria, and advocates fear the sector could be headed for a similar crisis to aged care without greater support.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...-disability-group-home-care-victoria/12535692


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## Knobby22 (13 August 2020)

278 cases .... it's working!


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## satanoperca (13 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> 278 cases .... it's working!




It is only one day, bit early to call it.

And if you call working, destroying peoples business, jobs & homes, yes it is doing a great job at that.

Also note : we are not allowed to move, leave of homes unless it is an emergency, for food, oh  - 1hour outside for exercise and travel no further than 5kms, one person per household can go to the supermarket, kids at home, not at school, workers at home, not in the office or cafe or factories, everything is shutdown.

So for it to work, we will just have to remain shut down forever, because once our freedoms are returned and people start mingling again, the process starts all over again.


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## basilio (13 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> It is only one day, bit early to call it.
> 
> And if you call working, destroying peoples business, jobs & homes, yes it is doing a great job at that.
> 
> ...




That can't happen can it ? We can't live under perpetual emergency measures like this for an extended period of time.

The premise of  a quarantine or in this case a  lockdown is stopping the spread of the virus. From everything we know to date almost all active cases will not be infectious after 2-3 weeks.  With that in mind we can hope that with a strict quarantine period of up to 6 weeks there should be minimal risks.

We could then return to a more open and integrated society - but...

However  I'm not sure health officials would feel confident about reopening mass community activities until a decent vaccine was proven or there was a way of very quickly identifying infected people and ensuring their  isolation while they were infectious.

Or of course some really effective means of strengthening peoples immune systems and also dealing with the illness. There have been many comments about the value of Vitamin D in strengthening the immune system. Practically speaking I don't believe there is a single measure  to deal with this issue.

------------------------------------
One of the huge factors in keeping people safe will be their emotional health. There is no doubt that isolation, worry and poor health habits will exacerbate both the illness as well as other health problems.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-04/coronavirus-how-long-does-it-last/12419770


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## basilio (13 August 2020)

*“Daniel Andrews is a dictator and also he didn’t use the army enough” – read today’s News Corp editorial *



*Other News*





EDITORIAL: We’ve said it in our editorials before. We are living under the iron rule of what can only be described as a despotic regime. Citizens confined to their homes, cafes and restaurants shuttered, police patrolling the streets, with fines for anyone who doesn’t comply. And don’t even dare go out after 8pm. If this isn’t a police state we don’t know what is. The North Koreans have it easier than this.

And now we hear that Daniel Andrews had the opportunity to bring in the army to control Victoria’s citizens, and he refused. What an utter disgrace. When it is so clear that what the streets of Melbourne need more than ever is a bigger military presence, more boots on the ground, Daniel Andrews failed us. Too weak to take control of his own state. Too soft on law and order to get people into line. When Victoria was crying out for the army to take over, Dictator Dan said no. This is what anarchy looks like.

And one more thing. When will Dan Andrews take responsibility for the New Zealand COVID outbreak? Four cases yesterday; four more cases today, yet still no word from the Victorian premier.

People will die because of this. But Daniel Andrews refuses to apologise. Once again he selfishly focuses purely on Victoria. He hasn’t apologised for the new Nickelback album yet either. But that’s a story for tomorrow’s editorial.

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...day_s_news_corp_editorial&utm_term=2020-08-13


----------



## satanoperca (13 August 2020)

basilio said:


> That can't happen can it ? We can't live under perpetual emergency measures like this for an extended period of time.
> 
> The premise of  a quarantine or in this case a  lockdown is stopping the spread of the virus. From everything we know to date almost all active cases will not be infectious after 2-3 weeks.  With that in mind we can hope that with a strict quarantine period of up to 6 weeks there should be minimal risks.
> 
> ...




I will try and break down some of your very valid comments :

Can we live with lockdowns forever - No
2-3weeks infectious period - maybe, but there will always be a situation where this is greater, can the virus survive longer than that say in your refrigerator or cold environments.
Vaccine - don't want to look like a doomsayer, but read the history of the development of vaccines, no holding my breath that we will ever see one that is even 60% effective and then the issue is will people be forced to take the vaccine or take it up voluntary.
Identify infected people, I wish it was as easy as adding something in the drinking water, that if you were infected, your face turned purple, but it is not. One element of this virus that all the experts are struggling with is the fact that you can be infected and thus infected others and not even know. I know for myself that I only know when some part of my body has been cut/intruded is when I see blood. Strange analogy.
Vitamin D, agreed, get it from sunlight and various other sources, but leads to an interesting discussion about the health and wellbeing of our community. Ie our bodies require fuel and some of that fuel must contain trace elements like zinc, magnesium etc Our food sources don't necessary contain those trace elements like they did in the past, so we rely on pharma's providing us supplements. So if people were more consciously aware of what their body requires to remain healthy and thus have a great chance of surviving a virus then we would not be in this situation, but alias we don't as a society. Ie the selling of soft drinks, they should be taxed as they provide no benefit to society and society has to pick up the bill for the damage they cause. Not saying they should be banned, but tax more heavily, like tobacco and alcohol.
Single measure, agreed, read the above, no single measure or thought, it is like marriage, it is a combination of elements that make it successful.
........
Left 7, never liked the number 7, so 8 it is a lucky number, mental health.


----------



## basilio (13 August 2020)

This may be one of the ways we can quickly/easily identify people who are infected.

https://theconversation.com/these-d...ronavirus-most-have-a-100-success-rate-143756

I think the Government and medical authorities  should turn attention to strengthening peoples capacity to resist COVID 19 (as well as other infections )

I think it represents a more positive approach and given that when restrictions are loosened there will still need to be care about minimising/reducing the impact of the virus.

And frankly it would improve overall health.


----------



## Knobby22 (13 August 2020)

We need a test, perfect. I didn't vote for this guy by the way..


----------



## IFocus (13 August 2020)

macca said:


> Taiwan is the expert at surviving nasty bugs from China, they have had a Total of Seven deaths, they started issuing 10 free masks a week back in December.




There are really big lessens from Taiwan strange no one is talking about them.


----------



## IFocus (13 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> We need a test, perfect. I didn't vote for this guy by the way..
> 
> 
> 
> ...




An outsiders perspective.

Victoria is the jewel to be won in the Liberal Party crown and they have been frothing with rage after Andrews got in and to make it worse in some ways Andrews in the unlikely / accidental Premier.

I have wondered if the aggressive enforcement of restrictions in Victoria 1st time around was because authorities thought people would not behave or if the behaviour failings 2nd time around were in part because of the strict restrictions 1st time around. Maybe they were right 1st time and the current breakout confirms that.

Also interesting the Libs screaming about opening up and that Andrews was a dictator 1st time around seem to have gone to ground but the label has stuck such is politics.

Maybe Andrews can use the Federal governments tactics at dodging the age care home deaths (biggest % in Victoria) and just don't turn up each day?

It will be interesting how much damage will stick to Andrews when the virus is under control again.


----------



## moXJO (13 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> We need a test, perfect. I didn't vote for this guy by the way..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought he was doing a fairly sensible job. Some of his ministers suck (eg: health minister). But other wise he is doing ok in a difficult situation.


----------



## IFocus (15 August 2020)

After the Herald Suns attacks on Andrews 

"Recent headlines include “Dan’s defence shot down” on the front page, Campbell’s “The mad decisions Dan Andrews’ team keep making must stop” and Bolt’s “Victorians shouldn’t have to put up with Andrews’ nonsense”."

Then this poll a real kick in the groin


----------



## satanoperca (15 August 2020)

IFocus said:


> After the Herald Suns attacks on Andrews
> 
> "Recent headlines include “Dan’s defence shot down” on the front page, Campbell’s “The mad decisions Dan Andrews’ team keep making must stop” and Bolt’s “Victorians shouldn’t have to put up with Andrews’ nonsense”."
> 
> Then this poll a real kick in the groin




Can we please stop trying to spread FAKE news.


----------



## IFocus (17 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Can we please stop trying to spread FAKE news.
> 
> View attachment 107649




Do you have a link cannot find it?

Found below on another site.

So...on the frontline.
As of last night, in the hospital where I work, there is a palpable sense of anxiety the moment you walk in the door. We have 3 locked down Wards, ED on bypass (only taking Cat 1 or Mental Health patients) and staff testing positive (>30). This **** is real!!
For any of you sceptics /doubters/deniers/wilfully ignorant out there - research 'long COVID' or 'long-tail COVID'. These are the cohort who have been positive but without requiring hospital admission, generally 30-50 year olds. Despite the initially presenting with fairly benign respiratory/viral symptoms, 2-6 months later are still having on going issues. In 10% of cases these individuals are having cardiac problems (for example, myocarditis-inflammation of the muscles of the heart) despite being negative for months after their initial positive test. For a balanced and not overly medicalised description of long COVID, try Radio National "The Naked Scientist" broadcast Friday 14 August. There are a myriad of other post viral symptoms such as cramps, migraines, rigors, and fatigue on going, for a large number of people who are now negative for the virus. It appears that this virus 'tricks' the bodys' immune response system into reacting despite the individual being negative.


----------



## basilio (17 August 2020)

IFocus said:


> Do you have a link cannot find it?
> 
> Found below on another site.
> 
> ...




So I wonder what Sdajii et al would make of your experiences ?


----------



## satanoperca (17 August 2020)

IFocus said:


> Do you have a link cannot find it?
> 
> Found below on another site.
> 
> ...




 It was a joke, I was trying to show how easily an image/news can be manipulated, if you look at the number 9, it is not perfect in representation to the image, I am a hack when it come to graphic design.


----------



## moXJO (18 August 2020)

Worries the lockdown isn't working fast enough.


----------



## satanoperca (20 August 2020)

Crap, it is 7.51pm, I am in Balaclava, Vic, need to get home before the 8.00pm curfew, all 2.8kms away.

What happens if I am still walking home at 8.01pm, am I a criminal? 

Am I threatening the lives of others, could I be accused of manslaughter?

Maybe not, I left the guns at home, the machete is blunt and I am walking.


----------



## bellenuit (20 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Crap, it is 7.51pm, I am in Balaclava, Vic, need to get home before the 8.00pm curfew, all 2.8kms away.




Well if I was in such a hurry I would wait until I got home before posting on Aussie Stock Forums


----------



## satanoperca (20 August 2020)

But my office is the world. Employees in the philipines, vietnam, Bangladesh, and Ukraine. Have to deal with time zones.
I assume you understand?


----------



## basilio (24 August 2020)

Perhaps the sun is shining in Vic.
Excellent drop in COVID cases today. Hopefully the trend continues.

*Victorian coronavirus cases rise by 116 as state records 15 more COVID-19 deaths*
Victoria has recorded 116 new coronavirus cases and 15 deaths, the Department of Health and Human Services has announced. 
The latest fatalities bring the state's COVID-19 death toll to 430.
It follows 208 new cases on Sunday and 182 on Saturday.
It is the lowest daily increase in cases since July 5, when 74 new cases were reported.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...-new-coronavirus-cases-and-15-deaths/12588284


----------



## satanoperca (24 August 2020)

basilio said:


> Perhaps the sun is shining in Vic.
> Excellent drop in COVID cases today. Hopefully the trend continues.
> 
> *Victorian coronavirus cases rise by 116 as state records 15 more COVID-19 deaths*
> ...




No sunshine and lollipops, the damage has been done.

So many businesses just closing the doors and walking away, it is surreal.

People are starting to resent the govnuts more and more each day.

Rumours growing of massive marches and protests if Stage 4 is not lifted when scheduled to be.

The numbers are falling as we are being treated like prisoners.

The scare campaign worked, but only for so long.


----------



## satanoperca (24 August 2020)

CCP Dan @ it again.
"
Premier Daniel Andrews has announced the restrictions associated with Victoria's state of emergency will be extended and could be in place for the next 12 months.

Victoria’s state of emergency is due to end of September 13 but Mr Andrews said the state cannot afford to have the restrictions that go along with the state emergency end.

“That is the legal instrument that allows rules about face masks, about COVID safe work plans in workplaces large and small, that is the legal instrument that sits behind density limits in pubs and cafes and restaurants. Things like a positive person, someone who has got this virus, and required to isolate at home,” he said.

“Before September 13 (we) will extend the state of emergency provisions within the public health and well-being act for a maximum of a 12 months. So that means it will be a total of 18 months. The six months we have already been through plus a further 12 months.”
"


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

My prediction is that Victoria will see violence over this.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (25 August 2020)

wayneL said:


> My prediction is that Victoria will see violence over this.



He is behaving in the style of a true megalomaniac.

A meek leftie commentator:
"Andrews’s push for a 12-month extension to Victoria’s state of emergency makes no sense … unless the purpose is to hand the Premier absolute power during, and perhaps even beyond, this pandemic."


----------



## basilio (25 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> "
> Premier Daniel Andrews has announced the restrictions associated with Victoria's state of emergency will be extended and could be in place for the next 12 months.
> 
> Victoria’s state of emergency is due to end of September 13 but Mr Andrews said the state cannot afford to have the restrictions that go along with the state emergency end.
> ...




I'm not sure what the fuss is. We clearly need to continue with COVID health restrictions for  the foreseeable future  so at least 6 months and 12 month is not a stretch.
Are we suggesting that the Government either lift all COVID health restrictions or find some other legal instrument to legislate to protect public health ?

I can't see why the mask/isolation/density limits will not be reviewed  earlierif circumstances improve.


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

basilio said:


> I'm not sure what the fuss is. We clearly need to continue with COVID health restrictions for  the foreseeable future  so at least 6 months and 12 month is not a stretch.
> Are we suggesting that the Government either lift all COVID health restrictions or find some other legal instrument to legislate to protect public health ?
> 
> I can't see why the mask/isolation/density limits will not be reviewed  earlierif circumstances improve.



S
W
E
D
E
N


----------



## satanoperca (25 August 2020)

basilio said:


> I'm not sure what the fuss is. We clearly need to continue with COVID health restrictions for  the foreseeable future  so at least 6 months and 12 month is not a stretch.
> Are we suggesting that the Government either lift all COVID health restrictions or find some other legal instrument to legislate to protect public health ?
> 
> I can't see why the mask/isolation/density limits will not be reviewed  earlierif circumstances improve.




bull****, getting tired of this crap, as a previous poster mentioned, it will result in voilence. 

Lets address the facts
Worst case scenario, 0.1% of people die, so for the other 99.9% of the popluation they are meant to suffer.

F---k you and the govnuts.


----------



## Purple XS2 (25 August 2020)

The Andrews ALP government can be blamed for the current impositions on the Victorian population, arising from their manifest incompetance in the Hotel quarantine program.

They cannot however be solely blamed for the basic strategy, which is to lock down as hard and as prolonged as necessary, until public contagion is reduced to near zero: that's a national strategy with all the states and territories on board, and interestingly enough is being more or less followed by most of the worlds' governments - even those undeveloped countries which cannot possibly endure such a policy.

So here we all are on planet Earth, waiting for a vaccine.
If the first bunch of trialled candidates perform poorly, or fail outright, then surely the strategy must be rethought. In other words: S W E D E N

Meanwhile, in Victoria: once the borders open enough, my scratched and blury crystal ball foresees a mass emmigration out of Victoria the likes of which this country has never seen.
Melbourne will never - and I mean never - recover.
Maybe.

P


----------



## qldfrog (25 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> bull****, getting tired of this crap, as a previous poster mentioned, it will result in voilence.
> 
> Lets address the facts
> Worst case scenario, 0.1% of people die, so for the other 99.9% of the popluation they are meant to suffer.
> ...



Isn't it funny that the very same ideology who has been banging hard against the 1pc for decades is now ready to sacrifice the 99.9 for the 0.1pc
Think about it. ROL


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 August 2020)

I generally try to avoid outright politics but on the subject of Victoria I'll say this.

No offense to Victorians but there's a certain culture about the place which I've never really liked once I noticed it. A culture of subtle threats and over the top policing that pervades everything from car washing to music festivals.

In the music thread I posted quite a lot of videos (taken by others) of live shows where I was in the audience. Just thought that idea, live music, might cheer someone up given the current restrictions and lack of it. Anyway, there's a good reason why the overwhelming majority aren't from Melbourne. Yep, it irritates me enough that when I was living in Tas and wanted to go to something that wasn't coming to the island state I'd quite happily fly Hobart - Melbourne - Adelaide or Hobart - Sydney so as to avoid Melbourne and it's fun police culture. Just as well - Ms Smurf would probably have gotten arrested once if we'd gone to Vic....... 

Anyway, no offense to anyone and I don't hate the place but I noticed that culture long ago and have avoided it ever since. Same reason why I didn't consider moving to the state and wouldn't do so. It's not a political thing - my own observation of it goes back many years prior to the present government and no doubt it's been there far longer than that.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 August 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I generally try to avoid outright politics but on the subject of Victoria I'll say this.
> 
> No offense to Victorians but there's a certain culture about the place which I've never really liked once I noticed it. A culture of subtle threats and over the top policing that pervades everything from car washing to music festivals.
> 
> ...




Just watching the news broadcasts, it seems the same in most States.

All the States at one time or another have had police forces that were notoriously corrupt and basically political enforcers for whoever was in government.

Askin in NSW, Joh in Qld basically ran the police force for their own purposes. Even SA there were cases of police bashing, even murdering those they didn't like. One has to ask if people like that are still in the forces today, I think the answer is probably yes, the culture doesn't seem to have changed all that much.

I remember in NSW when a foreign Commissioner was bought in to clean up the force, the "boys" made sure he didn't get very far.

Of course there are a lot of good cops, but it's an uphill battle fighting the entrenched culture.


----------



## macca (25 August 2020)

I have a a thing about the colour black 

The reason most Police forces wear any colour BUT black is that black does have a psychological effect on a lot of people.

On the wearer it gives a feeling of power, to the other person it is a threatening colour.

AFAIK the colour of the Vic Police uniforms is only a recent change by the current Govt, it does fit in with the current mentality IMO


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

Murdoch press is reporting on the rich fleeing Victoria via superyachts and private jets, leaving the working and middle class to rise up against the tyrant.

Viva la revolución, guerreros.


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 August 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Just watching the news broadcasts, it seems the same in most States.
> 
> All the States at one time or another have had police forces that were notoriously corrupt and basically political enforcers for whoever was in government.




No doubt there's imperfections everywhere but there's a cultural thing in Vic very widely at least in my perception.

Drive from Adelaide to Melbourne and you'll know you've crossed the border when the speed limit drops 10 km/h for no apparent reason and there's a plethora of signs warning of all the things you can be fined for. And it's no secret that there's stuff all tolerance in Vic when it comes to issuing such fines.

Another one is many years ago myself and a few others between us went to the same music festival in three different states - NSW, Vic and SA. It seems anyone wanting to drink alcohol in Vic needed to stand in some cage-like thing meanwhile no such concept in SA and pretty laid back in NSW too.

Just a lot of little things like that I've noticed over the years where it tends to be a no tolerance heavy handed approach in Vic compared to elsewhere. NSW does seem to have drifted in that same direction in recent years though as an observation.


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 August 2020)

macca said:


> The reason most Police forces wear any colour BUT black is that black does have a psychological effect on a lot of people.
> 
> On the wearer it gives a feeling of power, to the other person it is a threatening colour.



Never even thought about that one.

I'm wearing black right now......


----------



## IFocus (25 August 2020)

I note WA nurses flying into Vic to help (courageous souls) as the front line health professionals fall over with infections.

Given the system being over whelmed in Victoria and the level and number of *breaches* that have been the cause of the outbreak can the genius here recommend any other path that the Vic Government could take other than a lock down?

Mean while here in WA we are just dandy thanks to our draconian government.


----------



## cynic (25 August 2020)

IFocus said:


> I note WA nurses flying into Vic to help (courageous souls) as the front line health professionals fall over with infections.
> 
> Given the system being over whelmed in Victoria and the level and number of *breaches* that have been the cause of the outbreak can the genius here recommend any other path that the Vic Government could take other than a lock down?
> 
> Mean while here in WA we are just dandy thanks to our draconian government.



As has been repeatedly stated:


wayneL said:


> S
> W
> E
> D
> ...


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 August 2020)

IFocus said:


> Given the system being over whelmed in Victoria and the level and number of *breaches* that have been the cause of the outbreak can the genius here recommend any other path that the Vic Government could take other than a lock down?




I'll say the same thing I said to various people months ago during the first lockdown.

Silly non-medically based restrictions, such as stopping someone learning to drive with their own mother or father with whom they live as supervisor, was completely unnecessary and sure to burn up public goodwill.

Public goodwill - THE most precious of all resources in any situation where you need the general public to go along with something they normally wouldn't do. More precious than gold and no amount of money buys more. Once it's gone, it's gone and then it becomes impossible to sustain compliance with what's being asked.

Once it did occur then, if it were up to me, the apology would have been front page news of that I would have made sure. The whole front page - I'd have personally twisted the arm of newspaper editors to make damn sure this occurred. It's bad enough to tarnish reputation, even worse to not apologise for it.

Keeping the public on side is far more sustainable than a "tough on crime" approach and the situation is at least partly responsible for the many breaches of restrictions in my view.

I also wouldn't ever contract out something like security. I mean seriously - private security guards aren't what you put in charge of something serious like quarantine given that they aren't even permitted to actually enforce any law.

That said, to be fair hindsight is always perfect although I do think those two examples were entirely foreseeable.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 August 2020)

Just  like to post some good news.

Down to 73 cases.

(41 deaths).

Hopefully on track for lockdown to finish in two weeks.

Just remember fellow Victorians, if you have the symptoms, get tested so we can trace it and end it. The longer this goes the harder it is for all of us.


----------



## satanoperca (31 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Just  like to post some good news.
> 
> Down to 73 cases.
> 
> ...




Why, not everyone has the position that they can afford to be tested, and show positive and loose their income.

The reason why test cases are down, as people aren't being tested.

Everytime I have had a sniffle, or a sore throat in the last decade, I did not run to the doctors, more so why would I do that know, so I can be traced and documented.

If I was hard on breathing maybe I would get tested, asymptomatic cases are huge, that is why this virus will never be eliminated.

Stop locking down Victoria to save face CCP Andrews, you sacrificing many to save a few.

And before some smart arse makes comment, read my previous posts, I am one of the vulnerable ones due to previous illnesses and I say this is madness.

The lockdown will not end, people are getting upset and will rise up and rebel.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Why, not everyone has the position that they can afford to be tested, and show positive and loose their income.
> 
> The reason why test cases are down, as people aren't being tested.
> 
> ...




Lets hope for the sake of everyone then that you don't catch it and spread it willy-nilly making the lock down last longer (by two weeks if you spread it to your workplace).  You can claim $1500 so maybe think of self interest if you are not willing to do your bit?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ictorian-government-hardship-payment/12478650


----------



## satanoperca (31 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Lets hope for the sake of everyone then that you don't catch it and spread it willy-nilly making the lock down last longer (by two weeks if you spread it to your workplace).  You can claim $1500 so maybe think of self interest if you are not willing to do your bit?
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ictorian-government-hardship-payment/12478650




Really, covid sounds like a dream to me, compared to the viruses that have taken, or tried to take my life, harden up, life is not easy.


----------



## satanoperca (31 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Lets hope for the sake of everyone then that you don't catch it and spread it willy-nilly making the lock down last longer (by two weeks if you spread it to your workplace).  You can claim $1500 so maybe think of self interest if you are not willing to do your bit?
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ictorian-government-hardship-payment/12478650




Sorry just reread your post, lol.


----------



## moXJO (31 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Just  like to post some good news.
> 
> Down to 73 cases.
> 
> ...



41 deaths isn't good news. Isn't that one of the highest they have had?

Is it a rogue stat?


----------



## SirRumpole (31 August 2020)

moXJO said:


> 41 deaths isn't good news. Isn't that one of the highest they have had?
> 
> Is it a rogue stat?




8 deaths overnight 33 who have died in nursing homes in the last couple of months but weren't previously reported.


----------



## moXJO (31 August 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> 8 deaths overnight 33 who have died in nursing homes in the last couple of months but weren't previously reported.




No wonder.

Cheers for the clarification.


----------



## satanoperca (31 August 2020)

moXJO said:


> 41 deaths isn't good news. Isn't that one of the highest they have had?
> 
> Is it a rogue stat?



Really, do what 41 deaths, there are 25 Million people in Australia, do the figures, so no one dies at anytime, we all live foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Try every 3.15minutes, there is a death in Australia, did you care or even try and understand the figures before this.

Really.


----------



## spooly74 (31 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> If I was hard on breathing maybe I would get tested, *asymptomatic* cases are huge, that is why this virus will never be eliminated.



Looking more & more like we can define asymptomatic as immune, hence the apparent burnout rate at approx 20% of population infected.


----------



## satanoperca (31 August 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Looking more & more like we can define asymptomatic as immune, hence the apparent burnout rate at approx 20% of population infected.




And of those 20% of the population, how many die from the DIRECT result of being infected from Covid.

Numbers start to get smaller and smaller.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 August 2020)

Wilful ignorance.


----------



## wayneL (31 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Wilful ignorance.



Of what?


----------



## Knobby22 (31 August 2020)

Don't worry about it.


----------



## moXJO (31 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Really, do what 41 deaths, there are 25 Million people in Australia, do the figures, so no one dies at anytime, we all live foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
> 
> Try every 3.15minutes, there is a death in Australia, did you care or even try and understand the figures before this.
> 
> Really.



I understand all that. And agree to a point. From a purely economic view you would let covid run through and wipe out the oldies. No more strain on pensions, jobs, or healthcare. But the mental health of the public would suffer to much imo. That's a lot of loss on top of an already depressed population.

If the lockdown was still producing that amount of deaths then it would have been failing. But it was a rogue stat. And yes, the economic cost was greater then what was probably achieved in lives.

However there are so many layers that I don't like throwing my opinion in.

We have outside agitators that would capitalise on an severe outbreak. 

We have a general public disconnecting from the realities of work.

We have extremism on the rise.

And the list goes on.

Imo you can only lockdown so many times before the masses start to riot. There is already the start of some civil unrest against the state. 

Business is at a point where many will lose everything.
I would not want the governments job right now.

I think NSW has the right model for now. Contact tracing works well when the numbers are low.

I do think we need to keep numbers low for now though. If we are playing a global game, then knowing we are relatively virus free may be to our benefit later on. 

Its very hard to pick a way through.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 August 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Really, do what 41 deaths, there are 25 Million people in Australia, do the figures, so no one dies at anytime, we all live foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
> 
> Try every 3.15minutes, there is a death in Australia, did you care or even try and understand the figures before this.




That is the number of deaths in spite of the lockdown.

Obviously the number of deaths would be higher without it.

The argument seems akin to saying that because you own a portfolio of ASX200 stocks which has gone up over time that is proof that speculative small caps aren't in any way risky.

Or because you caught the train to work every day for 20 years, that shows that the risk of cyclists being run over is really very low.

Avoiding something and not getting hurt by it doesn't prove that it's safe. All it shows is that avoiding it means you don't get hurt by it.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 August 2020)

moXJO said:


> If we are playing a global game, then knowing we are relatively virus free may be to our benefit later on.




As a case in point just compare the Australian states.

Look on property forums or other places where real estate, where to live, cities, towns etc are being discussed and the situation in Victoria does seem to be tipping the balance somewhat.

It'll only be at the margin of course, there won't be a mass exodus, but look back some years from now and I'm pretty sure that the inflection point will be there. 2020 will be the year when population growth dropped down a notch in Victoria, Melbourne in particular, and went up a notch in SA and Tas.

No mass exodus but there'll be some at the margin, those with no strong attachment to any particular place to live, who are motivated to move by the whole thing. Where that matters is that mostly these people are the ones who either have money and don't need to work or who can call the shots.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 August 2020)

moXJO said:


> From a purely economic view you would let covid run through and wipe out the oldies. No more strain on pensions, jobs, or healthcare. But the mental health of the public would suffer to much imo. That's a lot of loss on top of an already depressed population.




As a general observation, with a few exceptions once someone has money they become far more concerned about non-financial things.

Or in other words a society that focuses only on money is a society which will over time drive out much capital and talent. 

Money's important but it's not the whole game.


----------



## satanoperca (1 September 2020)

Really what can I say:
"Senior doctors across Melbourne are urging politicians not to support a state of emergency extension, saying the move threatens to “destroy” the health and wellbeing of fed-up Victorians.

In a letter to Premier Daniel Andrews, seen by NCA NewsWire, 13 medical practitioners outlined their concerns about the State Government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic."

Dan the man is not a leader

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...l/news-story/477352005ec852b6dd4b0e8f31f97441


----------



## spooly74 (2 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> And of those 20% of the population, how many die from the DIRECT result of being infected from Covid.
> 
> Numbers start to get smaller and smaller.



CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.


----------



## satanoperca (2 September 2020)

spooly74 said:


> CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.




Hi Spooly74, do you have a link?

I am reading it correctly, of all the deaths associated with Covid, only 6% were healthy of body.

If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.


----------



## spooly74 (2 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Hi Spooly74, do you have a link?
> 
> I am reading it correctly, of all the deaths associated with Covid, only 6% were healthy of body.
> 
> If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.



Here's a few

https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-...&utm_content=2020-08-31&utm_campaign=memelink

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/ron-paul-cdc-bombshell-only-6-covid-deaths-only-covid


----------



## spooly74 (2 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.



The Chinese put on the Greatest Show on Earth.
Mass street disinfection, convulsing people on the street, Killing Dogs etc etc etc
Spain blinked and the rest of the world followed .....bar one.

Thank God Sweden did what they did or we'd have this shoved down our throats for several years.
Likely witnessing the evolution of the newest common cold.


----------



## Klogg (2 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Hi Spooly74, do you have a link?
> 
> I am reading it correctly, of all the deaths associated with Covid, only 6% were healthy of body.
> 
> If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.




2020 will be the largest over-reaction the world's seen in some time.

A shame really, even if the asset price inflation about to occur does suit me.


----------



## IFocus (2 September 2020)

Mean while Gulag Australia

*Australia's outbound travel ban is one of the strictest coronavirus public health responses in the world*


*https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...nd-international-travel-ban-morrison/12605404*


----------



## basilio (2 September 2020)

*Would be well worth reading past the distorted headlines of this reference to the CDC report. *

COVID 19 causes a range of other illnesses that effectively contribute/cause the final demise.

The respiratory failures, pneumonia etc were triggered by COVID.

_The report showed that in 18,116 of 42,587 deaths in the 75-84 age group, the individual who died also had the flu or pneumonia, while in 15,100 cases the underlying condition was respiratory failure.


Overall, of the 161,392 deaths covered by the report, 42 percent (68,004) of those who died also had the flu or pneumonia while 34 percent (54,803) had an underlying condition of respiratory failure.

https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-...&utm_content=2020-08-31&utm_campaign=memelink_


----------



## bellenuit (2 September 2020)

spooly74 said:


> CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.




I don't think that figure on its own points to an overreaction. What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.


----------



## qldfrog (2 September 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I don't think that figure on its own points to an overreaction. What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.



Which is why it will be easy to see the real covid death number by looking at annual death numbers from 2018 to 2021(lets say)
Sadly it will also include the deaths such as suicides undetected untreated  illness etc which are linked to the response, not covid itself.
But overall, give it a year and you will have a very accurate image
I doubt it will be much publicized


----------



## spooly74 (2 September 2020)

bellenuit said:


> What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.




Impossible to know that. The conditions are mentioned in Table 3
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
Hard to think Covid played a part for these people :*Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events: 5133*, but it's a small number relative to previous respiratory illnesses.


----------



## satanoperca (2 September 2020)

"
Victoria's Chief Health Officer says less than 50 per cent of people with mild symptoms are getting tested.

Some 13,000 Victorians were tested yesterday, an increase of 3000 on the previous day.

Professor Brett Sutton is urging people to get tested even if they have mild symptoms.

He said this will mean health authorities will have a full understanding of how much infection is in the community before reopening."

Really, I can explain to a child how to build a robust system, based on data, that is dynamic and changes.

No **** Brett, people aren't getting tested, just imagine if we played the same b---llshit over the last decade, Sir you have a sniffle go to the doctors, medical system overwhelmed.

Tired of people living in ivory towers/bubbles.


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 September 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Which is why it will be easy to see the real covid death number by looking at annual death numbers from 2018 to 2021(lets say)



Trouble is, that shows the Sweden model to be a failure with the highest death rate in many years (on an annualised basis obviously given the year isn't over yet).


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 September 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.




A particular issue there is that the situation in Victoria making it considerably harder for these people to exercise will in practice knock at least some off their perch.

It won't affect everyone obviously, the rules will be just fine for some, but for some others it will stop them exercising in practice.


----------



## satanoperca (2 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trouble is, that shows the Sweden model to be a failure with the highest death rate in many years (on an annualised basis obviously given the year isn't over yet).




Can you explain? With some numbers that will provide evidence to your conclusion.


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Can you explain? With some numbers that will provide evidence to your conclusion.



I don't have it handy but someone else linked them on this forum a couple of weeks ago. Data was total deaths in Sweden.

In short it was a nice low number for 2020 but when annualised for the full 12 months it was the highest of the lot going back many years.

If I come across it then I'll highlight it - there's a few threads on the subject but it was in one of them. 

Edit: Here's the same data not the original post: https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

Clearly shows that 2020 is, on an annualised basis, the worst and that's going back to 2010 not just a year or two. 62,890 deaths through to 14 August, an annualised rate of 101,570 versus around 89 - 92k for the whole year in each of the previous 10 years. Even if the rate after 14 August was the same as previous years, 2020 would still be the worst.


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2020)

Watch what is going on in Vic


----------



## moXJO (2 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Watch what is going on in Vic



Government is treading on dangerous ground. I worry this kind of action will lead to organised push back. Groups will use this to fan the flames.

 Once you let civil disobedience out of the bottle its very hard to contain it again.


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Government is treading on dangerous ground. I worry this kind of action will lead to organised push back. Groups will use this to fan the flames.
> 
> Once you let civil disobedience out of the bottle its very hard to contain it again.



I fear the genie may be out of the bottle... the start of an irreversible chain reaction.

Even up here in Queensland I am sensing a growing seething anger happening in a substantive and growing minority.


----------



## moXJO (2 September 2020)

It will need a trigger event for people to get off their fat arses. At the moment it's still controllable. Lot of outside agitators may take advantage though.


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Government is treading on dangerous ground. I worry this kind of action will lead to organised push back. Groups will use this to fan the flames.




I'm definitely seeing some evidence that capital and talent wants out.


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> It will need a trigger event for people to get off their fat arses. At the moment it's still controllable. Lot of outside agitators may take advantage though.



I was pretty triggered by that vid.


----------



## moXJO (2 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> I was pretty triggered by that vid.



Anger yeah.
But it takes a lot of fanning and groups exploiting the event toget anyone to do anything. 

Be interesting to see all the info of what was going on for the cops to come in and do that. 
Just viewing the video, it seemed like a disgusting authoritarian overstep.

 Needs more info as to what it was all in relation to.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 September 2020)

Lucky she wasn't in Minneapolis.


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Anger yeah.
> But it takes a lot of fanning and groups exploiting the event toget anyone to do anything.
> 
> Be interesting to see all the info of what was going on for the cops to come in and do that.
> ...



 I've got a screenshot of the actual post in question but I can't post it here from my phone.

it was pretty innocuous just basically come on out to the freedom march in Ballarat on the 6th


----------



## satanoperca (2 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trouble is, that shows the Sweden model to be a failure with the highest death rate in many years (on an annualised basis obviously given the year isn't over yet).




How so?


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2020)

Apart from cucking up with old folks homes, Sweden has been a spectacular success. they are essentially back to normal and could not give a crap about the rest of the world now.


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2020)

@moXJO here is the post that got her arrested


----------



## satanoperca (2 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Apart from cucking up with old folks homes, Sweden has been a spectacular success. they are essentially back to normal and could not give a crap about the rest of the world now.




Wayne, I have an issue with you and your statements and ideologies. 

Please Wayne, stop it, telling the truth does not help at all. 

You need to seek help, being real and understanding the current events, addressing them, looking for a solution, just does not HELP!

Can you change, follow the agenda, inseminate fear.


----------



## moXJO (2 September 2020)

There's  a few coming out now.


----------



## cynic (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> There's  a few coming out now.




Unfortunately, Melbournians are no longer permitted to visit their fellow inmates (unless visiting for the purposes of sexual intimacy or essential caregiving). So, draconian as it may seem, that guy has actually transgressed the law.


----------



## qldfrog (2 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trouble is, that shows the Sweden model to be a failure with the highest death rate in many years (on an annualised basis obviously given the year isn't over yet).



I quoted:
_it will be easy to see the real covid death number by looking at annual death numbers from 2018 to 2021(lets say)_
If 10000 people die today but none ever in the following years, is that a failure?
I repeat:
_it will be easy to see the real covid death number by looking at annual death numbers from 2018 to 2021(lets say)_
Over n years and that is obviously not stopping today or next month, how many extra deaths do you have?
And in percentage obviously, not the usual BS about Brazil or US being the highest in term of deaths, wait till you get India's figures...or compare with Monaco
And is Sweden better or worse than the other countries, even with their older native population?
we will all have the figures in a couple of years, but we have none and can not yet


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> There's a few coming out now.



I thought there's always a requirement to state name and address if asked by police?

You don't need to carry proof of that, you don't need to be carrying "ID" in the way it is commonly taken to mean a driver's licence or similar, but you do need to answer the question.


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 September 2020)

qldfrog said:


> we will all have the figures in a couple of years, but we have none and can not yet



Agreed.

I just wish though that false claims of Sweden having done well would stop being made.

Thus far, Sweden has seen a result that's considerably worse than Australia with substantially more deaths and a greater decline in GDP during the second quarter with -7.0% for Australia versus -8.6% for Sweden.

We probably could do better than we've done but of all places we could copy, Sweden is hardly a role model at least in terms of performance to date.


----------



## sptrawler (2 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> It will need a trigger event for people to get off their fat arses. At the moment it's still controllable. Lot of outside agitators may take advantage though.



The fat arses will quiver when the money dries up, everyone on the teat will go balistic.
I go to my local to catch up with mates on Friday, I have noticed an absolute dero(not being funny, he is a nice guy) has started betting on the TAB, it has happened since the increased payments.
There will be a lot off withdrawl symptoms when it stops IMO.
Unless Victoria can get a handle on the spread and Australia can open up, this will become a real multi generational mess IMO.
Forget about inter generational wealth transfer, start and think about inter generational debt transfer, if this goes on for a few years.
There are a lot of baby boomers coming to retirement with debt, if this continues they wont be able to pay it, let alone have a comfortable retirement.
So that means reverse mortgage, or selling, or passing debt on.


----------



## moXJO (3 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I thought there's always a requirement to state name and address if asked by police?
> 
> You don't need to carry proof of that, you don't need to be carrying "ID" in the way it is commonly taken to mean a driver's licence or similar, but you do need to answer the question.



I was unaware they could come onto your property and arrest you in such a manner. Are these old or new laws just for COVID-19?


----------



## moXJO (3 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I just wish though that false claims of Sweden having done well would stop being made.
> 
> ...



Not many positives out of Sweden except for the freedom. I wonder what the debt due to coronavirus looked like compared to other countries?


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> I was unaware they could come onto your property and arrest you in such a manner. Are these old or new laws just for COVID-19?



I'm no cop or lawyer but my understanding has always been that you are required to identify yourself if asked by police. I could be wrong, that's just always been my understanding.

Identify as in tell them your name and address. That's a verbal answer to the question - you are not required to carry any form of written proof except under specific circumstances (eg some states require carrying a drivers licence whilst driving and you need a passport to travel overseas). 

If police turn up on my doorstep then I've no reason to not tell them who I am so long as I've first satisfied myself that they're legit police.


----------



## moXJO (3 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'm no cop or lawyer but my understanding has always been that you are required to identify yourself if asked by police. I could be wrong, that's just always been my understanding.
> 
> Identify as in tell them your name and address. That's a verbal answer to the question - you are not required to carry any form of written proof except under specific circumstances (eg some states require carrying a drivers licence whilst driving and you need a passport to travel overseas).
> 
> If police turn up on my doorstep then I've no reason to not tell them who I am so long as I've first satisfied myself that they're legit police.



Unless they have a reason to be on your property (reasonable suspicion, warrant, etc) then they shouldn't be there, well that's what I thought.

Obviously, suspicion of visiting your neighbour is the current law as mentioned above by cyn. Draconian it is indeed. This is not something they will be able to use for long.


----------



## moXJO (3 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Watch what is going on in Vic




This video went worldwide pretty quick and is now being used as a warning against rising authoritarianism.
Definitely trending with the conspiracy crowd.
Good one Victoria.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Unless they have a reason to be on your property (reasonable suspicion, warrant, etc) then they shouldn't be there, well that's what I thought.



Only time I've had police turn up they claimed that a truly bizarre crime had been reported and they were here to investigate. This was around 3am by the way. 

I always assumed that was an excuse and that whatever had been reported wasn't what they said it was and they just needed a reason to come in and have a look. Someone must've reported something far more serious I assume. They don't normally bang on doors at 3am after all and there were 6 of them standing on the doorstep.

There's another street nearby with a very similar name - my guess was they got the wrong address.


----------



## qldfrog (3 September 2020)

We are witnessing a very fast descent into totalitarianism.be
always wary of people locking you or bashing you for your own good.go back 12 months:
Which country on this planet was preventing people from leaving their home place when the destination was ready to accept them?
And obviously when not under a crime arrest notice etc
Now Australia is the first to do it for our own good...
Is this country too afraid of its citizens looking at the outside world?
Next we will block internet...


----------



## IFocus (3 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I just wish though that false claims of Sweden having done well would stop being made.
> 
> ...




I honestly don't get the Sweden thing at all other than the so called freedom part which still requires following government guide lines that restrict movement and gatherings.

Its seems to be the conservatives that have this enthralment which further baffles me as its the socialist aspects of the society that has the support measures allowing for people to follow the rules and trust government departments.

Unlike here where government department messages are usually in front of hidden agendas driven by ideological politics Robo debt being a lovely example.


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)




----------



## Knobby22 (3 September 2020)

wayneL said:


>



The Swedes went and got tested as soon as they had any symptoms and didn't try to hold rallies. The first wave wedidwell too.
But now we have a second wave due to gov incompetence.

This time have too many brainwashed selfish nuftys here not getting tested and trying to cause rallies. Slowing the process down. Sweden doesn't have as many.


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The Swedes went and got tested as soon as they had any symptoms and didn't try to hold rallies. The first wave wedidwell too.
> But now we have a second wave due to gov incompetence.
> 
> This time have too many brainwashed selfish nuftys here not getting tested and trying to cause rallies. Slowing the process down. Sweden doesn't have as many.



If you look all over the world, those with unreasonable lockdowns have had similar protests, most not, or under, reported.

People are noticing the overreach and inconsistencies and getting very p1ssed. 

I personally won't be attending rallies, but understand their frustration.


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

*Police response to arrest of Ballarat woman*

The video of the Ballarat woman arrested because she was attempting to organise an illegal demonstration (against the lockdown) has created its own sturm and drang.

So what was the reasoning and why weren't BLM organisers treated similarly ?

*Given the numbers at the Black Lives Matter protest, can Luke Cornelius (Police Chief) say they obeyed the social restrictions?*
_
Here’s the thing - the organisers of the Black Lives Matter protest were on record saying we’re telling people who are coming to protest to comply with the directions. 

We’re saying to people, observe social distance, we’re saying to people, wear masks, we’re saying to people, gathering in groups of no more than 10 and keep 100m apart. 

Now that’s what they were saying. 

OK? In this case, stage four, where protest is unlawful, leaving home to protest is unlawful, you have got no basis upon which you can say to people, leave home to protest.
_
*Back to Luke Cornelius and the planned Victorian protests*.
*He is asked what the difference is between the Black Lives Matter protest and whatever this is.*
_
*There’s a huge difference. So, during the Black Lives Matter protest, we were operating under a very different set of rules. Under the Black Lives Matter protest, when that was on, leaving home to protest was a permitted activity. *

*There were restrictions on it, so the restriction was you can leave home to protest with a group up to 10 people, and in multiple groups, so long as there’s a 100m distance between each of those groups. *

Now, in stage four, and also in stage three, which applies to regional Victoria, when those restrictions came in, public protest was removed as a permitted reason.

*So, at the moment, across the state, in any context, in any location, you cannot leave home to protest. *

Now, that’s the rule that applies now. That’s the rule that applied to the individual that we arrested yesterday. That’s the rule that applied when I stood here last week and warned everyone about what the rules were. *Those rules did not apply during the Black Lives Matter protest.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-5f5053cb8f08277a6c07dc07#liveblog-navigation
*_


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

More from Luke Cornelius re arrest of the Ballarat women for inciting an illegal march.

*You'd have to be on Mars' not to know about anti-protest directive*
Then we get this from *Luke Cornelius:*

I’d also make this observation, we take offenders and suspects as we find them. You know, we do to a certain extent have access to information about people, but in the end, we have to take people as we find them.

*And that doesn’t detract of course from our obligation to hold people to account. I mean, if we started to say, we can’t possibly hold this person to account because of a particular attribute, where do we draw the line? The key piece here is we’re focusing on behaviour. *

In this case, we are alleging this individual engaged in serious criminal behaviour, inciting a public protest at a time when public protest is unlawful.

And we have been very clear about that. I mean, I don’t think I could have been clearer last week.

We said we would be coming out and we would be holding people to account and that’s exactly what we’ve done.

You have to have been on Mars not to know that.

*I have to say if someone looked me in the eye and I was out dealing with an individual and they said, “I didn’t know I couldn’t protest.” I have to say, “Come on, don’t take me for a fool. You have to be on Mars not to know that.”*


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

*'Be the keyboard warrior'*
Victoria police’s *Luke Cornelius *says people can bitch and protest online, ‘as normal’.

By all means, protest online. Be the keyboard warrior.

*Say all sorts of unpleasant and uncharitable things about people urging you to behave sensibly, but do it online. *

Don’t leave home to do it. Don’t compromise the safety, health and wellbeing of other Victorians. 
----------------------------------

You can read the full transcript of  Assistant Commissioner Luke Cornelius Press Statement on line.

Goes into detail about police efforts to identify, warn and stop organisers of illegal public gatherings as well as people who want to chance their arm at becoming COVID heroes.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-5f504b8a8f086d7ec333412c#liveblog-navigation


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)

What a surprise.


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

Daniel Andrews saw a group of doctors who believe Victoria should open up .
The Premiers response was IMV reasoned and respectful.

Asked about the doctors who have called on the government not to extend stage four restrictions,* Daniel Andrews* says:

_We take into account all the impacts of fundamentally changing the way Victorians live their lives. 


Whether that be in employment, in accessing services, and we’ve stood here many times, I think, talking about many of those issues. The issue of cancer screening has been raised at national cabinet. 


Every effort is being made to drive those rates back up to closer to normal levels. I don’t want to be seen to be commenting on those doctors. They’re free to have a view. 


They put their view yesterday. They essentially tried to make the case that the death numbers are quite low, therefore we should open up. I just have to respectfully find fault with that logic. 


The notion that a death rate, whilst you’re locked down, can be assumed to continue with some stability once you open up, I just don’t think that makes a lot of sense. But I honour the work that they do. I completely support their right to have a different view to me and a different view to other doctors who are working with us. I would also make the point that, as committed and as passionate – and I have more than some personal experience with those who provide cancer care - and I’ve got nothing but the highest regard for them. And I, indeed, know many of the doctors that have signed that letter. 


There will be no room for any of their patients if our hospital system is completely overrun. And that’s what will happen if this thing gets away for us again, and the third wave is potentially worse in terms of numbers than what the second wave has been._

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-5f5047b78f086d7ec333410f#liveblog-navigation


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

*'Sorry for my bimbo moment': Woman apologises after being arrested live on Facebook over coronavirus lockdown post*

A Victorian woman whose live-streamed arrest for allegedly organising an anti-lockdown protest went viral has apologised for her "bimbo moment".

*Key points:*

Zoe Buhler says she thought she was being kidnapped and was "fully freaking out"
Police concede the arrest of a pregnant woman did not look good, but say officers behaved appropriately
Eighty people have been spoken to by officers in the past week about planned protests, police say
Zoe Buhler said she did not realise she was doing anything wrong by starting a Facebook event asking people to meet in Ballarat, west of Melbourne, to protest against lockdown restrictions.

"Sorry about my bimbo moment," she said this morning.

"I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to."

Police arrived at the 28-year-old's home in Ballarat yesterday afternoon.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-03/coronavirus-lockdown-protest-facebook-arrest/12624318


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)

Your brownshirt is in the mail, bas.


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Your brownshirt is in the mail, bas.




Do you have anything to say about what the Premier has said or do you just want to abuse fellow posters on ASF?

Would you like me to return in kind and make this is proper flame war ?  

I'm sure we can break out the pop corn and streamers.

_________________________________________________________
What I do notice Wayne is that your quick to highlight media grabs that suit your jack boots message but are totally incapable of  reading or addressing a conversation beyond two lines.

I realise the Premiers statements and the Assistant Police Commissioners interview went longer than one paragraph. They needed to becasue they were addressing complex issues that needed
1) Dissection
2) Discussion
3) Final decision making.

Why not actually read and discuss the content of the Press statement instead of being a xick ?


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)

You get a bonus armband, bas.

Jackboots are half price if you order before midnight.


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> You get a bonus armband, bas.
> 
> Jackboots are half price if you order before midnight.




Clearly you don't have the capacity to be any more than a xick.
Perhaps this  analysis  can explain where you are coming from.

*Hiding in plain sight: how the 'alt-right' is weaponizing irony to spread fascism*
Experts say the ‘alt-right’ have stormed mainstream consciousness by using ‘humor’ and ambiguity as tactics to wrong-foot their opponents







https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/23/alt-right-online-humor-as-a-weapon-facism


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)

Oh, so I'm alt right?


----------



## basilio (3 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Oh, so I'm alt right?




Nailed it.


----------



## wayneL (3 September 2020)

You are far more foolish and stupid than I imagined, bas.

For the record, define alt right for the audience.


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## basilio (3 September 2020)

Your the audience Wayne. Wear the label. Glorify it in.
Keep talking like a xick.
Keep trashing other people with totally lying tropes.
Meanwhile check out the company your keeping and the language you use.

* Today’s right-wing talking points resurrect yesterday’s fascist tropes *
_Last weekend, The Independent published a piece by myself on how the contemporary hard right are reusing fascist tropes from the 1930s. Below is a longer version of that piece with links added.
https://hatfulofhistory.wordpress.c...g-points-resurrect-yesterdays-fascist-tropes/_

Skip to content

Home
About
Media/Contact
Publications
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*About*

This is the blog/website of Dr Evan Smith. I am currently a Research Fellow in History in the College of Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences at Flinders University, South Australia. Between 2013 and 2015, I was a Vice-Chancellor’s Postdoctoral Research Fellow in the School of International Studies at Flinders University. I have previously held positions at the Australian Institute of Criminology, the South Australian Office of Crime Statistics and Research and the Australian Taxation Office.

I have a PhD in History on the Communist Party of Great Britain and anti-racist politics in the post-war period from the Department of History at Flinders University. A revised version of my thesis was recently published as _British Communism and the Politics of_ _Race _by Brill/Haymarket as part of its Historical Materialism series.  I have published widely on the history of the left, anti-racism/anti-colonialism and national/border security in the Anglophone world.


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## wayneL (3 September 2020)

I would be proud to wear any label I actually believed in bas, but lets examine this.

According to Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, the alt right has the following beliefs ( My response in red)

White Nationalism Nope

White Supremicism Nope

White Separitism Nope

Right Wing Populism Lets define that first, but generally, Nope

Tight Immigration Restrictions I think immigration should have an economic and societal benefit

Racism Nope

Anticommunism Ah **** yeah!

Anti Zionism Neutral... probably more toward no

Holocaust Denial Absolutelu NOT!

Xenophobia Nope

Antisemitism Nope, not a Corbinista

Antifeminism Nope to initial waves, Yes to fourth wave

Homophobia Nope

Islamophobia Nuanced

So, as any rational, well balanced forum member already knows, I am nowhere even close to alt right.

Once again, you have nothing except a straw man argument, the last refuge of the nonintellectual moron incapable of having reasonable debate.

@Joe Blow more fake news from this propagandist.


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## Joe Blow (3 September 2020)

I think all labelling should cease. There is no utility in trying to pigeonhole others as alt-right or Marxists or [INSERT LABEL OF CHOICE HERE]. It adds absolutely nothing to any discussion or debate as the last dozen or so posts are testament to. All it has done is sidetracked and derailed this thread.

Labelling is not a form of argument, it is a substitute for an argument. It is something someone employs as a distraction (or as a personal attack) when they cannot support their own views with anything of substance.

So let's drop the labelling and get back to some constructive debate please.


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## wayneL (3 September 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> I think all labelling should cease. There is no utility in trying to pigeonhole others as alt-right or Marxists or [INSERT LABEL OF CHOICE HERE]. It adds absolutely nothing to any discussion or debate as the last dozen or so posts are testament to. All it has done is sidetracked and derailed this thread.
> 
> Labelling is not a form of argument, it is a substitute for an argument. It is something someone employs as a distraction (or as a personal attack) when they cannot support their own views with anything of substance.
> 
> So let's drop the labelling and get back to some constructive debate please.



Well I'll label myself, Joe, and proud to wear the label of Classical Liberal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

If the shoe fits


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## basilio (3 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Well I'll label myself, Joe, and proud to wear the label of Classical Liberal.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
> 
> If the shoe fits



It's a free world  Wayne.

You can believe whatever you want


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## bellenuit (4 September 2020)

spooly74 said:


> CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.






bellenuit said:


> I don't think that figure on its own points to an overreaction. What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.


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## Dona Ferentes (4 September 2020)

My argument directed to those that challenge my beliefs is:
I believe in _SOMETHING...._
I don't believe in_ ANYTHING,_
I don't believe in _NOTHING,_
I don't believe in _EVERYTHING._


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## SirRumpole (4 September 2020)

wayneL said:


> Well I'll label myself, Joe, and proud to wear the label of Classical Liberal.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
> 
> If the shoe fits




Trouble is, it's all a matter of degree.

Some regulation is necessary. How much is too much ?

Really the only people in power that fits in your description (imo) were Hawke, Keating and Turnbull. Most of whom you villified at some point.

Classical Liberalism really doesn't exist anymore. Would you call Thatcher or Abbott classical Liberals ? Trump ? Reagan ? Tony Blair ?

I totally agree with Joe's post. Trying to pigeonhole people is pointless. There are people with Left leanings economically, but socially Right, what does that make them ?


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## Knobby22 (5 September 2020)

As we Victorians are aware, most cases are in the nursing homes and with doctors and nurses in hospitals. 

Yesterday the Government decided to test for asymptomatic cases among the medical staff in hospitals because they not winning.
Yesterday????? Is dumb and dumber running our healthcare response???

Sorry Australia and I feel the pain fellow Melburnians.


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## cutz (5 September 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> As we Victorians are aware, most cases are in the nursing homes and with doctors and nurses in hospitals.
> 
> Yesterday the Government decided to test for asymptomatic cases among the medical staff in hospitals because they not winning.
> Yesterday????? Is dumb and dumber running our healthcare response???
> ...




Really !!

So we are going to see a spike in asymptomatic cases next week ?????

So disheartening !!!!!

Stark contrast to Europe now, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...ed-down-despite-covid-19-second-wave/12623804


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## SirRumpole (5 September 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Yesterday the Government decided to test for asymptomatic cases among the medical staff in hospitals because they not winning.




Seems a sensible thing to do to me.

What's your problem ?


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## Knobby22 (5 September 2020)

cutz said:


> Really !!
> 
> So we are going to see a spike in asymptomatic cases next week ??
> 
> ...



I think it could get nasty in Europe but people are being careful so its not like the original wave when people were caught by surprise.

Also heard today that realistically the vaccines won't be ready till mid next year because proper testing is required.


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## Knobby22 (5 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Seems a sensible thing to do to me.
> 
> What's your problem ?



I would have done it months ago. You have a big outbreak in the hospital system - test everyone! Especially since we know asymptomatic people can spread it. 

I am very frustrated with the continuing incompetence of our response.


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## cutz (5 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Seems a sensible thing to do to me.
> 
> What's your problem ?




I actually assumed hospital staff would have all been tested already, ages ago, guess I was wrong, this is the sort of stuff that is contributing to the slow burn that we're seeing !!!!

The authorities have decided to go down the eradication path, I would have thought hospital staff to be regarded as close contacts therefore testing should have happened when all this started and ongoing !!!!


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## SirRumpole (5 September 2020)

Yes, you are both right. It should have been done much earlier.


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## Knobby22 (5 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, you are both right. It should have been done much earlier.



I know James Hacker is not up to the job but it appears the modern Sir Humphrey is also lacking.


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## basilio (5 September 2020)

cutz said:


> I actually assumed hospital staff would have all been tested already, ages ago, guess I was wrong, this is the sort of stuff that is contributing to the slow burn that we're seeing !!!!
> 
> The authorities have decided to go down the eradication path, I would have thought hospital staff to be regarded as close contacts therefore testing should have happened when all this started and ongoing !!!!



I'm surprised and a bit dismayed too at first . However...

Having said that I wonder how many staff there are in hospitals and how much of a stretch this would have been with testing capabilities

At the same time there would be pressure to test anyone with a pulse in aged care homes, quarantine hotels, food processing centres, other outbreaks.

Hindsight is always good.  *It is also worth realising that under testing guidelines anyone who is tested has to stay in isolation until the results come back.  *

In that context testing all the staff in a centre would be totally impossible without closing it down for 2-3 days.


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## cutz (5 September 2020)

@basilio

Yep totally agree with you regarding hindsight, I do understand we have guidelines but what makes me sick is the level of incompetence shown here, there's no reason why hospital staff should not have been undergoing continued testing as soon as test kits come on line, bare minimum those treating covid, and without having to isolate while waiting for results.

Anyway there no point, it's become apparent that eradication is an impossible goal,  seems like we are just going to flounder around with states going at it alone till a vaccine is found, we may even see a collapse in the only thing that's underpinning our economy.


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## SirRumpole (5 September 2020)

basilio said:


> Hindsight is always good. *It is also worth realising that under testing guidelines anyone who is tested has to stay in isolation until the results come back. *




Surely this could be a matter of hours if hospitals are given priority ?

Do your test when you arrive at work and get the results before you leave.

The actual test takes about 3 hours, the delay is due to the backlog.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...-where-how-and-how-long-does-it-take/12074746


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## cynic (5 September 2020)

When viewed through the eyes of one believing the fairytale about eradication, one might be forgiven for opining an abundance of incompetence. 

However, for those willing to view events, whilst maintaining an openness to entertainment of the presence of tacit agendas, the implemented measures seem to have been profoundly effective.


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## Smurf1976 (5 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Seems a sensible thing to do to me.
> 
> What's your problem ?



I think the issue is why did it take so long?

Testing people in these environments would seem to be something that ought to have been occurring from the start.


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## Smurf1976 (5 September 2020)

basilio said:


> In that context testing all the staff in a centre would be totally impossible without closing it down for 2-3 days.



If there’s a problem with doing enough tests then scale it up.

1. The old 12/7 roster for relevant staff. It ain’t much fun, I’ve been there and done that in a different industry when the need arose, but in an emergency situation you do what needs to be done. 

2. Train more people to conduct the tests. 

Surely it can be done in a manner such that people who aren’t doctors or nurses could be trained up to carry out this one specific test at least in “normal” people with no unusual circumstances? Perhaps not ideal but this really is an emergency.


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## cutz (5 September 2020)

Hi cynic

Government's not that cunning, unfortunate events has turned Vic into what it now has become.

For instance we tend to bang on about how great the property bubble is, all it's done is create a nation of insecure wage slaves and industrial relations bliss, union membership is almost non existent, it sort of has the appearance of master planning but nah, it's just the way the cookie has crumbled.


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## satanoperca (5 September 2020)

While the majority believe this unnecessary lockdown in Victoria is justified, I just prefer to work with facts.






Interesting, the majority of people infected are with in the 20-60 year age group.

But how many of them died.


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## satanoperca (5 September 2020)

Suspense


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## satanoperca (5 September 2020)

So what is the average life span of an Australian.
"In Australia, a boy born in 2016–2018 can expect to live to the age of 80.7 years and a girl would be expected to live to 84.9 years compared to 47.2 and 50.8 years, respectively, in 1881–1890."

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy

*So we have closed down an economy, destroyed peoples lives to achieve what exactly? To save to lives of people who going to die anyway?  *


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## moXJO (5 September 2020)

basilio said:


> I'm surprised and a bit dismayed too at first . However...
> 
> Having said that I wonder how many staff there are in hospitals and how much of a stretch this would have been with testing capabilities
> 
> ...




If this was trump you would crucify him.

Didn't I say something similar in a trump thread after you banged on about testing reduction 

Victoria didn't even bother.


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## basilio (6 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> If this was trump you would crucify him.
> 
> Didn't I say something similar in a trump thread after you banged on about testing reduction
> 
> Victoria didn't even bother.




Dan Andrews  is doing everything he humanly can to tackle COVID in Victoria and reduce the spread of infection
Trump is doing everything he can to undermine efforts to tackle COVID in the US


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## moXJO (6 September 2020)

basilio said:


> Dan Andrews  is doing everything he humanly can to tackle COVID in Victoria and reduce the spread of infection



I suppose. He did have that pregnant girl arrested after all.


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## SirRumpole (6 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> I suppose. He did have that pregnant girl arrested after all.




Do you think the cops ask the Premier's permission before they arrest anyone ?


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## moXJO (6 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Do you think the cops ask the Premier's permission before they arrest anyone ?



No they ask a skyfairy that dishes out fascist rules.
Pretty sure Dan laid down the law on restrictions.


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## cynic (6 September 2020)

Wonderful news, Victorians!

Just eight more sleeps to go!!

Then, so long as you're very, very good, you'll all be allowed to play on the swings again!!

https://www.broadsheet.com.au/melbo...r-lockdown-extended-two-weeks-with-conditions


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## spooly74 (6 September 2020)

cynic said:


> Wonderful news, Victorians!
> 
> Just eight more sleeps to go!!
> 
> ...




Madness.

Stop getting tested.


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## cynic (6 September 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Madness.
> 
> Stop getting tested.



Sadly that opportunity may have already passed. 

They're now testing the wastewater. 

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-viral-fragments-detected-apollo-bay-wastewater


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## spooly74 (6 September 2020)

cynic said:


> Sadly that opportunity may have already passed.
> 
> They're now testing the wastewater.
> 
> https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-viral-fragments-detected-apollo-bay-wastewater



But, they’ll have a harder time enforcing Lockdowns based on waste water testing.

Doing the same thing here in SA.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-05/sa-new-coronavirus-cases-in-wastewater-and-hotel-quarantine/


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## Miner (6 September 2020)

Dear Victorian ASF members, your families and friends.
Whoever are in good condition, please stay safe and diligently follow all precautions to stay out of Corona.
For those who are suffering, please be courageous considering we are much better off than many of other countries. So be stronger my friends.
Not lecturing but whosoever can , please try to gargle with warm water mixed up with salt at least twice daily. It is not a medical advise and would not harm any one.
Just make sure the warm water is not hot and tolerable. It is a good hygiene.
Oh yes, use disposable gloves and for few months, stop hugging and handshaking. If there is life then there would be millions of opportunities to hugging, kissing (strangers) and handshaking.
My prayers are for all of you as well as my own family.


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## satanoperca (7 September 2020)

We are f---kd, another mates business closed today, after 20 years of operation.

Getting tired of the crap, this is becoming a joke, but the joke is on hardworking victorians.

I will asked again, what are we trying to save, and please don't tell the lives of 80 year olds.


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## cutz (7 September 2020)

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your mate satanoperca, way too much has been lost.

Things will look up one day...


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## cutz (7 September 2020)

Are the police allowed to use a bit of discretion in standard procedures ?

Imagining myself in their shoes I may have this one slide, but then again I haven't got the full picture !

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/br...h/news-story/c06a48699bf035b62408708a1f98dcb1


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## satanoperca (7 September 2020)

cutz said:


> Are the police allowed to use a bit of discretion in standard procedures ?
> 
> Imagining myself in their shoes I may have this one slide, but then again I haven't got the full picture !
> 
> https://www.theaustralian.com.au/br...h/news-story/c06a48699bf035b62408708a1f98dcb1




Welcome to the police state, no longer Beijing, now called Victoria.

It is going to get worse, but Dan is the man, his has it undercontrol, as long as you follow his rules.


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## IFocus (7 September 2020)

Certainly starting to see some politics being played now as business's pain increases in Vic.


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## Smurf1976 (8 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> We are f---kd, another mates business closed today, after 20 years of operation.



Closed as in gone bust? Or just pulled the pin as couldn't see any future in it?

Understood you may not wish to answer in which case just ignore.


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## Smurf1976 (8 September 2020)

IFocus said:


> Certainly starting to see some politics being played now as business's pain increases in Vic.




I do think it's most unfortunate that pretty much everything in society has come to be seen in political terms.

Everything from engineering to popular culture seems to have become politicised.


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## satanoperca (8 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Closed as in gone bust? Or just pulled the pin as couldn't see any future in it?
> 
> Understood you may not wish to answer in which case just ignore.




Just closed the doors after removing anything of value and walked away. Reason, cannot see being able to operate until best, March next year and believed that the Vic Govnuts could and will turn restrictions back on over the next 2 years, making it impossible to operate.

So so far:
Major Events Company with a very established reputation employing 30 people directly and many more indirect, doors closed
Cafe - established and running well, but cannot survive on coffee alone, landlord gave no reprieve, closed the doors.
Beauticians - only running 2 years, went bust as had borrowed heavily to invest in and setup.


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## Craton (9 September 2020)

Sure I spare a thought for our Victorian cousins but I spare a bigger thought for all those already infected especially health workers as some might never be able to contribute to the work force again.
Thankfully our infection rate per capita is one of the lowest but, those recovering from CV19 will have long if not life long term of adverse side affects and that will impact on our already strained health/social system.

Yes, Victorians are adversely affected by this deadly and highly contagious killer. Sure, the restrictions are draconian but in my view, necessary.
I'd shudder to think what the outcome would be if our leaders act in a more lethargic and lackadaisical manner. It's not just about saving lives but saving the workforce for when we come out the other side too.
Until there's a proven cure/vaccine there will be no going back to normal and even then, "normal" will have a whole different meaning. For now though, we must do all we can to stop the spread and connect and share in ways never imagined at the start of the year.


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## cutz (9 September 2020)

Craton said:


> Sure I spare a thought for our Victorian cousins




Thanks' for your thoughts to our Victorian members from afar as out west mate,

Not much I agree with in your post but I too shudder after discovering today that most of our population is overweight /obese which is a major contributor to complications..

Huge wake up call, especially with no cure / vaccine in sight..


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## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

cutz said:


> I too shudder after discovering today that most of our population is overweight /obese which is a major contributor to complications..



I think a point that has been missed in this whole debate is that when people refer to "other medical issues" that's the majority of the population.

So yes, it only seems to affect those with other issues. That's most people and there's the big problem with it. The population as a whole is terribly unfit.


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## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Just closed the doors after removing anything of value and walked away. Reason, cannot see being able to operate until best, March next year and believed that the Vic Govnuts could and will turn restrictions back on over the next 2 years, making it impossible to operate.



I hear you.

Looking around the nearest (fairly small) shopping center there's one shop gone since it all started and I see another one has a sign up saying they're closing and inviting offers from anyone who wants to purchase the shop fit out etc not just the stock.

Further away but a larger shopping center. I can't remember all the shops that were in it but there's quite a few gone. A restaurant, a cafe sort of place selling cakes and pastries etc, there was a fruit and veg place - all gone. There's another one too but can't remember what that sold but there was some sort of shop in that space before all this started.

Those are in SA not Vic and I can only imagine it's a fair bit worse there.

A friend in Sydney very recently bought a (presently closed) business at what can only be described as a "fire sale" price.


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## SirRumpole (9 September 2020)

cutz said:


> Thanks' for your thoughts to our Victorian members from afar as out west mate,
> 
> Not much I agree with in your post but I too shudder after discovering today that most of our population is overweight /obese which is a major contributor to complications..
> 
> Huge wake up call, especially with no cure / vaccine in sight..




Governments have had the chance to put on a tax on salt, sugar and fat, but as usual they don't want to upset their donors.


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## SirRumpole (9 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I hear you.
> 
> Looking around the nearest (fairly small) shopping center there's one shop gone since it all started and I see another one has a sign up saying they're closing and inviting offers from anyone who wants to purchase the shop fit out etc not just the stock.
> 
> ...




High turnover of businesses in shopping malls is not unusual.

Shopping centre managers screw the tenants for as much rent as they can knowing that if they can't pay then some other hopeful will give it a go.

Of course the virus hasn't helped but it masks the underlying problem.


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## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> High turnover of businesses in shopping malls is not unusual.



Agreed but it's not usual to see so many unrelated businesses go all at once with no replacement.


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## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Governments have had the chance to put on a tax on salt, sugar and fat, but as usual they don't want to upset their donors.



Also amazing how many won't walk even a short distance.


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## Craton (9 September 2020)

cutz said:


> Thanks' for your thoughts to our Victorian members from afar as out west mate,
> 
> Not much I agree with in your post



 Thanks for the feedback.



> but I too shudder after discovering today that most of our population is overweight /obese which is a major contributor to complications..
> 
> Huge wake up call, especially with no cure / vaccine in sight..




Seriously? 
Come on, it's been well documented that obesity in our western/first world cultures has been trending up and up and up and yes, there is a cure/vaccine. It's called a healthy lifestyle.
You know and no disrespect to those with weight control genetic or mental disorders, taking a good look at what one ingests and realising the consequences, the amount (or lack of) exercise and generally balancing the amount of (read with tongue in check) "sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll" one indulges in is the best antidote.

CV19 is nothing to be sneezed at (no pun intended) and a very real threat to the whole population on this planet not just to a few of our mates in VIC.


----------



## cutz (9 September 2020)

Craton said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Seriously?
> Come on, it's been well documented that obesity in our western/first world cultures has been trending up and up and up




Yes mate, Seriously ! , I am very well aware of the uptrend..

Admittedly, not totally aware of the true extent until @basilio posted an article today regarding the US link to obesity and covid complications, this prompted me to look at government data in relation to how we stack up against the US, the results left me shocked, 67% of adults in Australia are overweight !

I guess the numbers are not evenly distributed throughout society as social economics factors play a huge part.


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## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

Craton said:


> no disrespect to those with weight control genetic or mental disorders, taking a good look at what one ingests and realising the consequences, the amount (or lack of) exercise and generally balancing the amount of (read with tongue in check) "sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll" one indulges in is the best antidote.



Education is a factor there.

As someone who does have a genetic tendency to being overweight, it runs in the family, the best thing I ever did was realising that the "experts" are mostly just quoting theory and nothing more.

It's dead easy to tell someone to eat less food. Doing so without feeling truly miserable is the difficult bit.

My tip - delay eating as long as possible each day. Best thing I ever did was realising that. It's a firm slap in the face to conventional wisdom but somewhat of a life changing discovery yes.


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## macca (9 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Education is a factor there.
> 
> As someone who does have a genetic tendency to being overweight, it runs in the family, the best thing I ever did was realising that the "experts" are mostly just quoting theory and nothing more.
> 
> ...




For those with good self control your theory would work but those with poor self control would struggle.

It is possible that a certain food category is the main culprit, usually sugar/carbs and one solution is to fill up on "other" foods.

Low carb or "slow" carb where necessary but mainly fruit, veg, meat, nuts, eggs and dairy can stop the hungry feeling.

One of my self sayings when I am craving food is "am I hungry in my head or my stomach"

I crave refined fructose, it is Sooooo addictive that stuff, if I eat something with that in it I will keep going back for more


----------



## satanoperca (9 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Education is a factor there.
> 
> As someone who does have a genetic tendency to being overweight, it runs in the family, the best thing I ever did was realising that the "experts" are mostly just quoting theory and nothing more.
> 
> ...




Sorry Smurf with no disrespect. Eating less is as simple as training yourself to drink less, so far, I have the first part correct, the second part I fail at.


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## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Eating less is as simple as training yourself to drink less, so far, I have the first part correct, the second part I fail at.



If you mean drink as in alcohol well I've got that one sorted.

Haven't touched the stuff for a few years now. That wasn't intentional, just happened really. Not saying I'll never do it again but not at the moment. Probably won't help the Victorians in lockdown though.....


----------



## Craton (11 September 2020)

cutz said:


> Yes mate, Seriously ! , I am very well aware of the uptrend..
> 
> Admittedly, not totally aware of the true extent until @basilio posted an article today regarding the US link to obesity and covid complications, this prompted me to look at government data in relation to how we stack up against the US, the results left me shocked, 67% of adults in Australia are overweight !
> 
> I guess the numbers are not evenly distributed throughout society as social economics factors play a huge part.



Agree, the numbers are not very good.


----------



## Craton (11 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Education is a factor there.
> 
> As someone who does have a genetic tendency to being overweight, it runs in the family, the best thing I ever did was realising that the "experts" are mostly just quoting theory and nothing more.
> 
> ...



Willpower can at times be the very best of medicines. Well done you.


----------



## Craton (11 September 2020)

So have we spare enough thoughts for our Victorian cousins yet?
No, not funny but I feel for everyone impacted, none more so than those on the news last night. Family members not being able to attend funerals.


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## Smurf1976 (11 September 2020)

Craton said:


> Family members not being able to attend funerals



That sort of thing, or not being able to say goodbye to someone who's on their death bed, would be incredibly stressful I imagine.


----------



## macca (11 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> That sort of thing, or not being able to say goodbye to someone who's on their death bed, would be incredibly stressful I imagine.




And in Qld we have the situation where children cannot travel to the funeral of their father.

Consider their mental anguish, bad enough to lose their Dad but now politics won't let them attend, an awful thing that is likely to effect them for a very long time


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## Smurf1976 (11 September 2020)

macca said:


> in Qld we have the situation where children cannot travel to the funeral of their father



I assume that's a specific case?

Or is it a blanket thing that applies to all?


----------



## macca (11 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I assume that's a specific case?
> 
> Or is it a blanket thing that applies to all?




It is a NSW/Qld thing, the north coast of NSW and Qld SE area interchange on many things.

There are thousands of people who live in NSW and work in QLD and vice versa, they have had delays for hours of people trying to get to work and eventually they sorted it out.

The other thing that is shared is the major hospitals and medical specialists, if you live in Coffs Harbour or north of there and your specialist says you need serious medical attention, virtually everyone goes to a Qld hospital.

If you live on the NSW north coast and get cancer you will be treated at a Qld hospital, if you get some weird ailment that needs a city hospital you go to Brisbane not Sydney.

It has always been that way, I assume there is some sort of cost sharing arrangement because it would be silly for someone who is ill to travel 8 hours to Sydney when it is 1.5 hours to Brisbane.

A pregnant NSW woman was denied access to a QLD hospital one hour from her home, she spent 8 hours getting to a Sydney hospital, one of the twins died............

The funeral was of a bloke who died of cancer, 39 years old, he had four kids but the QLD govt will only let one attend from Nth coast of NSW. 

Surely they can put masks and gloves on people, put them in a mini bus and shuttle them there


----------



## Smurf1976 (11 September 2020)

macca said:


> Surely they can put masks and gloves on people, put them in a mini bus and shuttle them there



That would seem entirely reasonable for circumstances like that yes.

Also things like the pregnant woman going to Sydney when a hospital in Qld was far closer - that situation just shouldn't be allowed to happen. Not much point in measures to save lives which cause death to a child about to be born.


----------



## sptrawler (11 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Education is a factor there.
> 
> As someone who does have a genetic tendency to being overweight, it runs in the family, the best thing I ever did was realising that the "experts" are mostly just quoting theory and nothing more.
> 
> ...



I have recently started the same regime, my wife made porridge for breakfast, sandwich for lunch and then an evening meal.
But with the virus limits, it has resulted in less exercise, so now it is no breakfast, porridge for lunch.lol


----------



## Smurf1976 (11 September 2020)

As a serious thought, perhaps it should be broadcast nationally?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-11/christmas-pageant-to-go-ahead-at-adelaide-oval/12654642

Might cheer some kids up or something. Can't see any parades happening in Vic for quite a while so may as well watch one in Adelaide (and it's supposedly the second largest such parade in the world. Don't know how accurate that is but it's pretty big and worth watching).


----------



## Smurf1976 (11 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> But with the virus limits, it has resulted in less exercise, so now it is no breakfast, porridge for lunch.lol



You off the Froot Loops and Coco Pops?


----------



## sptrawler (11 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> You off the Froot Loops and Coco Pops?



My other half would never ever have that in the house.
She is a complete health nut, I have to walk in to bunnings with her, then do two lefts and three rights, then double back to the sausage sizzle.


----------



## satanoperca (12 September 2020)

Just jumped on the bike to go to one of my fav coffee shops in St Kilda, we are a police state, counted over 60 police throughout St Kilda on the streets and many patrol cars. Welcome to China.


----------



## Knobby22 (12 September 2020)

Down to 37 cases today. Its working.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 September 2020)

Don't worry Victoria. Not long to go now.


----------



## macca (12 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Don't worry Victoria. Not long to go now.




Until the next time........


----------



## macca (12 September 2020)

another one.........

<<She pleaded with Queensland Health officials to enter the state to bury her 49- year-old son, Wayne. She received a short reply acknowledging her distress, but saying, "However, I draw your attention to the Queensland border restrictions, which will prevent your entry into Queensland.">>


----------



## moXJO (12 September 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Down to 37 cases today. Its working.



Of course its working. Locking the state up in hard isolation was always going to work. Whether its the best strategy is the issue.

 I honestly don't think the public would take many lockdowns.


----------



## Knobby22 (12 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Of course its working. Locking the state up in hard isolation was always going to work. Whether its the best strategy is the issue.
> 
> I honestly don't think the public would take many lockdowns.



Not much choice unfortunately. 

If we didn't stop the spread,  every other state will continue with locking the borders and it would get out anyway and stuff the whole countries economy (not just Victoria's.)

And I agree, this will have to be the last lock down.


----------



## Smurf1976 (12 September 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> If we didn't stop the spread, every other state will continue with locking the borders and it would get out anyway and stuff the whole countries economy (not just Victoria's.)
> 
> And I agree, this will have to be the last lock down.



Where the problem arises is if Victoria doesn't manage to stamp it out but the other states do.

I can't see anyone else opening borders if there's a pandemic going in in Vic but not their own state. That could get nasty indeed.


----------



## qldfrog (13 September 2020)

Craton said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Knobby22 said:


> Down to 37 cases today. Its working.



Sure, we are eliminating covid world wide...what no?
So it is not working just waiting for the next entry
By that time, we may suddendly be told it has mutated and is not dangerous anymore: just look at the numbers......
Incredible..


----------



## satanoperca (30 September 2020)

Still being controlled by Dictator Dan, or should I say career pollie with no understanding how the real world works including local and state economies.


----------



## Smurf1976 (30 September 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Still being controlled by Dictator Dan, or should I say career pollie with no understanding how the real world works including local and state economies.



Same in the USA with Dictator Donald.

Disney just cut 28,000 jobs. Yes 28 thousand and the bad news just keeps coming.

So that's one country which clearly isn't a model we can follow in Australia. Strike that one off the list.

Anyone know of anywhere apart from China that it's actually going well?

Perhaps being cynical but there's so many structural economic problems anyway and this does provide the perfect cover story to finally sort them out. There's a few decades worth of stuff to fix so realistically it was always going to take a war, pandemic, major earthquake or something of that scale to bring it about. Pandemic it is......


----------



## satanoperca (1 October 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Anyone know of anywhere apart from China that it's actually going well?




Seems strange doesn't it. China doing well, western societies not.


----------



## basilio (1 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Seems strange doesn't it. China doing well, western societies not.




Why ?

Far more ruthless about controlling the outbreak ?
Stronger centralised economy that can direct resources and support industries more directly ?
Long term change in direction to rebuild a renewable energy China.  This will reduce energy costs, reduce health costs and expand their manufacturing centre for local and OS renewable energy products
Better smokescreen of what is happening in the country.  Few journalists, state controlled economic figures.


----------



## Knobby22 (2 October 2020)

You tend to forget.


----------



## cynic (3 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> View attachment 112558
> 
> You tend to forget.



Forget what exactly!? The fact that coronaviruses tend to be more prevalent during the cooler weather perhaps. 
A significant decline in case numbers was due to happen when the season changed, irrespective of any half baked lockdown efforts.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 October 2020)

cynic said:


> Forget what exactly!? The fact that coronaviruses tend to be more prevalent during the cooler weather perhaps.
> A significant decline in case numbers was due to happen when the season changed, irrespective of any half baked lockdown efforts.



How bad it was. If we hadn't done anything we would be having a very high death rate. Soon the rest of the country might not treat us like lepers.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> How bad it was. If we hadn't done anything we would be having a very high death rate.  It has been very cold in Melbourne yet the numbers have dropped.
> 
> Soon our borders will reopen.


----------



## cynic (3 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> How bad it was. If we hadn't done anything we would be having a very high death rate. Soon the rest of the country might not treat us like lepers.



We did have a high death rate!! From the FTSEing lockdown!!!


----------



## Knobby22 (3 October 2020)

cynic said:


> We did have a high death rate!! From the FTSEing lockdown!!!



We would have had a higher death rate then.
I don't know where you are coming from.


----------



## moXJO (3 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> We would have had a higher death rate then.
> I don't know where you are coming from.



The measures went over the top. But maybe Victorians need that strict regime?

NSW seems to have gotten back to a normalise lifestyle without pulling on the boots and stomping over people.


----------



## cynic (3 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> We would have had a higher death rate then.
> I don't know where you are coming from.



I am not just talking about statistics. I am talking about actual people who are no longer with us consequent to the lockdowns. 

Sadly these people get swept under the statistical rug, and there's no way on earth that heinous egomaniac is ever going to admit to how much blood is now on his hands, and on the hands of those supporting his power trip.


----------



## satanoperca (3 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> The measures went over the top. But maybe Victorians need that strict regime?
> 
> NSW seems to have gotten back to a normalise lifestyle without pulling on the boots and stomping over people.



No, we just need better or at least competent pollies and bureaucrats and we wouldn't be in this mess.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> The measures went over the top. But maybe Victorians need that strict regime?
> 
> NSW seems to have gotten back to a normalise lifestyle without pulling on the boots and stomping over people.




NSW had severe restrictions untill they got the numbers down.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> The measures went over the top. But maybe Victorians need that strict regime?
> 
> NSW seems to have gotten back to a normalise lifestyle without pulling on the boots and stomping over people.



Only Victoria had rampant uncontrolled community transmission due to the incompetence the State Government.
They had to go hard to control it.
They should have gone harder earlier, the AMA critiscised them at one stage when they had the lesser lockdown. They took too long to realize how serious it had got and let it get away from them for an extra couple of weeks.

We would have had it under control even quicker except for the nuftys like the person who calls now calls herself Karen from Bunnings and has her own web page. A very need person. And the deliberate provacation from Sky trying to egg on the small number of nuftys who watch them.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 October 2020)

cynic said:


> I am not just talking about statistics. I am talking about actual people who are no longer with us consequent to the lockdowns.
> 
> Sadly these people get swept under the statistical rug, and there's no way on earth that heinous egomaniac is ever going to admit to how much blood is now on his hands, and on the hands of those supporting his power trip.



It's not about a power trip and dictator Dan and all that nonsense . It's just incompetence. Remember our laws were stricter to start with.

The commission into what happened showed again and again how the ministers were not in top of their portfolios, especially the health minister. Honestly, I wouldn't get some of them to run a chook raffle.

If the Libs concentrated on that they would be winning the polls, instead they are parroting Sky and saying Dictator Dan and a lot of other crap and generally acting like idiots and even backstabbing their own leader Michael O'Brien, especially Dim Tim as he is now known.  All ambition, no brains.
If they want to get elected they need to get their act together. The truth is their best people lost their seats last election and we are left with a pretty average rump.


----------



## cynic (3 October 2020)

For Dan it has always been about the power! Just note the extreme reluctance to commit to any possibility of parole, and also the repeated shifting of goal posts throughout the past 6 months.

People have a right to know what their detention is truly about!

However, those continually squeezing their eyes shut to the blindingly obvious deserve what's  coming.


----------



## IFocus (3 October 2020)

Re the death rate, note over all as a total deaths are actually lower during the lockdowns not to say some causes are individually higher.


----------



## satanoperca (3 October 2020)

He lives in fantasy land, where if he commands, everyone is to follow.

If that was true, no need for police, judges, courts, prisons.

One must when building system allow for tolerances and understand how they might effect the outcome.


----------



## moXJO (3 October 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> NSW had severe restrictions untill they got the numbers down.



They were no where near Vic. 

Vic seemed to slide into infection very quickly as well. Anyway their numbers are down now lets hope it stays that way. 

Looking at everyone getting around in NSW and ignoring the rules. It wouldn't surprise me at another wave coming through.


----------



## moXJO (4 October 2020)

One thing I don't get,  why does this only seem to happen in Vic. Surely the cops know its bad optics.


----------



## Knobby22 (4 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> One thing I don't get,  why does this only seem to happen in Vic. Surely the cops know its bad optics.




They didnt show what she did.
Pretty horrible lot. Its a tiny percentage and believe it or not, since nearly everyone is doing the right thing, these arrests are popular in the news.


----------



## moXJO (4 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> They didnt show what she did.
> Pretty horrible lot. Its a tiny percentage and believe it or not, since nearly everyone is doing the right thing, these arrests are popular in the news.



I think its the "anti-dans" pushing it. But still the amount of police on a pregnant woman seems ridiculous. And the overzealous actions don't come across well. One cop was about to mace the whole family.


----------



## satanoperca (4 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> I think its the "anti-dans" pushing it. But still the amount of police on a pregnant woman seems ridiculous. And the overzealous actions don't come across well. One cop was about to mace the whole family.



Go and watch the video.

For someone who likes facts, you are very reactionary.

A family at the beach in a large group, not wearing masks.

I was done at St Kilda on Friday and last night, dickheads everywhere, destroying it for us locals, who just want to enjoy our beach.

Mind you, my small group, had no issues, please where polite, given we where breaking the rules, but consuming a nice bottle of wine. But we social distanced, only 2 family groups and had face masks.

I wish people would stop hanging sh---t on the police, they are only foot soldiers. Focus your energy on the incompetent pollies and their hench men.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> I wish people would stop hanging sh---t on the police, they are only foot soldiers. Focus your energy on the incompetent pollies and their hench men.




Yeah true, but the police have discretion about how heavy handed they are in what circumstances so you can't lay it all on the pollies.


----------



## satanoperca (4 October 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yeah true, but the police have discretion about how heavy handed they are in what circumstances so you can't lay it all on the pollies.



Agreed and Disagree.
The police follow orders, mind you they are no more perfect than the rest of us. So in the case presented in St Kilda, why would you struggle if you were pregnant. Just shows how dumb people are. I have been in trouble with the law many times, each time I have being able to dissolve the situation not with aggression, but rather an acceptance. Okay, it might have been inconvenient at the time, it was only time I lost. For 95% of the situations I was wrong, so I dealt with it with the police.

The pollies command the police action, the buck stops with them.


----------



## moXJO (4 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Go and watch the video.
> 
> For someone who likes facts, you are very reactionary.
> 
> ...



I fully back police. But I don't support jackboot policy. There's too many intrusive laws (temporary or not). In this case police looked bad. And its the ridiculous laws. 
Outside, at the beach. Unless you are licking one another I don't see the problem. Dan has already shown many of his rules were not backed by science. Some of his and scomos actually may have breached UN human rights.

It looks bad globally. Brings more hatred toward police. And is not the first instance of it happening.


----------



## satanoperca (5 October 2020)

This Vic Govnuts are out of control, Year 9 and 10 students not to go back to school until the end of the month. Seriously. My son is starting to suffer, well it seems that way.

When would you ever hear a 15 year old tell you, "Dad I just want to go back to school, my education is being stifled by this online learning, I need to be in class, the teachers have given up and my friends and I are also giving up learning, this is not right"

Andrews must go.


----------



## Smurf1976 (5 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Dan has already shown many of his rules were not backed by science.



I'll leave Dan out of it specifically and simply say that this has been a more widespread phenomenon.

Not letting someone travel between WA and Tasmania for example is ridiculous from a scientific perspective. 

The issue of not allowing SA residents to return home from Victoria is equally ridiculous. One would assume quarantine would be applied but not an outright refusal to allow entry to the state, at all, for someone who lives there.

And so on. Plenty of nonsense has gone on amidst all this which isn't in accordance with what makes sense scientifically even if elimination is the actual goal.

As for police, the problem there is perceived bias and inconsistency. Stopping pre-settlement real estate inspections, exposing the purchaser to huge financial risk, meanwhile building sites are still operating and all manner of other costs are being socialised is one example. Arresting people engaged in small illegal gatherings whilst ignoring much larger ones is another case in point. Etc. Every one of those stains the credibility of law enforcement and raises doubts not about the individual Police Officers but about whoever's at the top making those decisions.


----------



## satanoperca (5 October 2020)

Dan the man is falling fast. Victorians have had enough of this guy, his lies and dishonesty, inability to run a team.

The curfews and other bull**** rulings are going to unravel fast.


----------



## cutz (5 October 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Not letting someone travel between WA and Tasmania for example is ridiculous from a scientific perspective.
> 
> The issue of not allowing SA residents to return home from Victoria is equally ridiculous. One would assume quarantine would be applied but not an outright refusal to allow entry to the state, at all, for someone who lives there.
> 
> And so on. Plenty of nonsense has gone on amidst all this which isn't in accordance with what makes sense scientifically even if elimination is the actual goal.




Yep,

The ongoing border issues have been a cause for extreme frustration, not sure about open slather but a sensible approach would have been nice, anyways that's just about all in the past now, the horrible hand of zero compassion that has been dealt to many cannot be undone, sad Ununited States of affairs,...


----------



## Smurf1976 (5 October 2020)

cutz said:


> The ongoing border issues have been a cause for extreme frustration, not sure about open slather but a sensible approach would have been nice



Yep, a sensible approach is all I'm urging.

WA - Tas for example. Not a huge number of people traveling between the two but so long as it's a direct flight there's been no rational reason to preclude it for a long time now.

Then there's things like border communities with people on both sides. Surely someone could use commonsense and for the purpose of quarantine move the border to one side or the other. It won't be the end of the world to say that for this purpose a small part of NSW is temporarily in Qld etc. With the obvious exception of Tasmania, there's no real logic in quarantine boundaries aligning with state borders.


----------



## Knobby22 (6 October 2020)

15 today.
Its the people complaining that are keeping it going. Damn South Eastern suburbs, they have been whinging from the start and now nearly all the cases are in their area.


----------



## moXJO (6 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> 15 today.
> Its the people complaining that are keeping it going. Damn South Eastern suburbs, they have been whinging from the start and now nearly all the cases are in their area.



Its weird that it spreads so easily down there. Honestly, the way people are carrying on in nsw- we should be knee deep in infections.

Our contact tracing team deserves a medal.


----------



## Belli (6 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Its weird that it spreads so easily down there.




Possibility is distribution factors.  Best way I can describe is a random walk where a multitude of issues arise as you stroll along the footpath.  Sometimes you meet a lot of people, sometimes a few or maybe none.  All the while you may be infected but don't know it. No surety those you come across will then be infected by you or not.  So you can get clusters of infection of various severity.

Really need someone who is well versed in statistical methods to clarify it better than me.

Got it.  I had read about it and this is the link:









						Is the K number the new R number? What you need to know
					

K is all about the super-spreaders.




					theconversation.com


----------



## macca (6 October 2020)

It is the miserable weather in Vic, here in NSW we are all out and about in the sunshine. 

Most people are keeping well apart where possible, even seems to be a bit more courtesy where I am.

Fresh air and Vitamin D, seems to be working so far


----------



## sptrawler (6 October 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> WA - Tas for example. Not a huge number of people traveling between the two but so long as it's a direct flight there's been no rational reason to preclude it for a long time now.



As I said a while back tourism is a net loss to W.A, more people leave the state and spend, than come here, so the W.A government is playing the advantage.








						Cash not coronavirus keeping WA border closed, Liberal Senator claims
					

Federal Finance Minister Mathias Cormann accuses the West Australian Premier of keeping the state's border closed for economic reasons, claiming the decision is in breach of the constitution.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:

_Mr McGowan also said on Thursday there was "no benefit" to opening to other low-risk states, such as the Northern Territory and South Australia.

"Far more West Australians will go there on holidays than people from South Australia and the NT come here on holidays, all we'll do is lose jobs were we to open to those states," he said.

"The other states want us to open the border so that West Australian tourists will flood east, not so that people from the east will come here. They're only saying that all this is for very self-interested reasons._"

Also in another article today, the tourism minister said there is no room for any interstate tourists everywhere is booked out. 
So McGowan in reality, is just looking after the State finances, which I suppose everyone else is doing by asking him to let people out.
Actually some of the W.A tourist hot spots, aren't that pleased to have the normal Aussie bogan holidaying at home also.








						Squander out yonder: Paradise lost as boozy bogans trash the best of the west
					

You can take the bogan out of Bali, but their demands for discounts, abusive behaviour and disrespect for pristine environments have tourism operators upset.




					www.watoday.com.au
				



From the article:

_Local holidaymakers are treating West Australian tourism operators like trash, spending their JobSeeker and JobKeeper payments at resorts and caravan parks while expecting an experience more akin to a booze-filled Bali getaway.

Operators complain about being abused by tourists who leave rubbish, are loud and rude at night, refuse to abide by resort rules and treat staff like "dirt". And some believe it is the people enjoying their holidays courtesy of the taxpayer who are the worst-behaved.


Ningaloo Caravan and Holiday Resort manager Ray Beven said he was seeing feral behaviour he had never experienced in his 11 years managing the park. He said the year had already been hectic due to the pandemic, and he’d had enough of dealing with horrible visitors at the usually peaceful resort.

"They treat people like a bit of dirt," he said.


They just seem to think they can treat people like the Indonesians, which is a shame and you can’t discuss it with them.

"They just want to party all night; when people ask them to quieten down in the caravans they give them the finger up and are abusive."

He said people who said they didn’t have jobs and were travelling on government payments refused to work when he told them he had jobs available. They were mostly aged between 18 and 30, and families had to leave the resort due to their abusive acts.

"It’s a shame because we have got old people coming here for 25 years and they’re getting upset with people, particularly the way they leave the ablutions," he said.

"There is verbal abuse all the time_."

I guess now the locals can get a feel for what it is like to be a tourism operator in Bali. 👍


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 October 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Operators complain about being abused by tourists who leave rubbish, are loud and rude at night, refuse to abide by resort rules and treat staff like "dirt".



Looking at the other side of that, if someone's traveled from interstate to a regional part of WA well that's a lot of travel and expense which acts as a natural deterrent to bogans. 

I don't know for sure but I'm thinking that if someone's come to whatever town in WA from the other side of the country well they're probably not in that "Bali" mindset. It's not a quick, cheap and easy trip.


----------



## sptrawler (6 October 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Looking at the other side of that, if someone's traveled from interstate to a regional part of WA well that's a lot of travel and expense which acts as a natural deterrent to bogans.
> 
> I don't know for sure but I'm thinking that if someone's come to whatever town in WA from the other side of the country well they're probably not in that "Bali" mindset. It's not a quick, cheap and easy trip.



In the article they are talking about W.A bogan's, who normally fly over to Bali in winter, but with the borders closed are traveling in the state.
I don't think they are talking about people who have come from over East.


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 October 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I don't think they are talking about people who have come from over East.



There aren't any - not allowed in.


----------



## satanoperca (11 October 2020)

Professor Sutton has conceded the government doesn't know if it will ever meet the target it had set to ease lockdown further.

"Who knows. No-one's been to this point with a second wave anywhere in the world. We are treading new ground," he said.

"So I won't say in absolute terms what – what the possibilities are. We can't – we can't discount that it might be extraordinarily difficult to drive down to zero."

REALLY, who would have thought that? Govnuts run by geniuses. So we just stay in lockdown forever.

Think Dan the man has ever lived in the real world and is imposing his ideologies and utopian beliefs on 5million Victorians. He will never be proven right, you cannot eliminate this virus.

Victorians have had enough.


----------



## IFocus (11 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Professor Sutton has conceded the government doesn't know if it will ever meet the target it had set to ease lockdown further.
> 
> "Who knows. No-one's been to this point with a second wave anywhere in the world. We are treading new ground," he said.
> 
> ...






Hmmmm WA?


----------



## Knobby22 (16 October 2020)

Only 2 cases today.
Victoria now has a tracing system equivalent to NSW.
I think we are in a good space to open up to the next stage and if I was the Vic Government/Dan I would show a little bravery.

If all goes well over the next 2 weeks then we should go to NSW version of coronavirus standard except with face masks.


----------



## satanoperca (16 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Only 2 cases today.
> Victoria now has a tracing system equivalent to NSW.
> I think we are in a good space to open up to the next stage and if I was the Vic Government/Dan I would show a little bravery.
> 
> If all goes well over the next 2 weeks then we should go to NSW version of coronavirus standard except with face masks.




Wishing thinking, CCP Dan is still in control.

Dan the Man - Victoria It is Your Fault - Great video

Never seen some many comments on a youtube video, over 4500. 

Time he goes


----------



## Knobby22 (16 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Wishing thinking, CCP Dan is still in control.
> 
> Dan the Man - Victoria It is Your Fault - Great video
> 
> ...



In the end though we can't open up too early or we will end up going back into lockdown.
I think we are really close.


----------



## moXJO (16 October 2020)

I wonder how long they will use these laws to quell the masses. Assuming we don't get a vaccine that is. 
Will we be at the mercy of these tinpot Xi wannabes for years.


----------



## satanoperca (16 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> In the end though we can't open up too early or we will end up going back into lockdown.
> I think we are really close.



On the assumption that this virus can be controlled and eliminated.

The masses have had enough, my law-abiding friends and family as suffering, become guilting of doing anything normal as it might deem them a criminal.

Come Sunday, CCP Dan can say whatever he wants, people are not going to be so complacent after Sunday.

I have been questioned twice in Melbourne by the police going for late night runs, might as well live in China.

First time I was compliant, the second, no so, when I was questioned why I was out at night, going for a run. Simply replied, none of you business. That lead to a heated exchange, with them implying I could be fined and arrested. It was at that point, I needed to take a stand, as requested their names, identification, and proof they were police, which obviously inflamed the situation further. This carried on for 15minutes, in which I was instructed to go home immediately, which in turn inflamed my response. See you in an hour, will still be jogging in the area.

They did find me again. This time I felt it was harassment, pulled out my phone and started recording, they just drove off. 

This is the situation Dan the man has created. We are not China, we are not a communist state, time Dan stood down.


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## satanoperca (16 October 2020)

And to further add to the crap situation Dan the Man has put average people in, I have been unable to go and see my eldely, law-abiding, always worked and contributed to society, compliant to the rules, parents for months, the same people (demographics CCP Dan is trying to save), they are now suffering, emotionally feeling rejected by the society that they supported. Mum being 75 and Dad 78. 

Is this acceptable, is the action causing more damage than the cause? YES

It goes further, my 15 year old son, who is very robust, outgoing, energetic and loved school, just told me he thinks he has depression. So I talk with him, tried to understand the root of the cause that could lead to this statement.

1. He wants to go back to school feels his education is being effected
2. He has been stopped and questioned by d---kheads for playing basketball with his mates and told he is breaking the law
3. He has been told to not gather in groups by the police, in this case some of his mates had gone down to Port Melbourne pier to have a swim
This all made him feel that he was breaking the law.

This is b----lshit.

This is the impact we have created to save how many lives.


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## SirRumpole (16 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> He has been stopped and questioned by d---kheads for playing basketball with his mates and told he is breaking the law




Probably because he is.


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## satanoperca (16 October 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Probably because he is.



Please explain, because a dictator says that is illegal, does not mean it is correct

Or lets get this real, a child playing basketball in a park can cause your death. Get real


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## SirRumpole (16 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Please explain, because a dictator says that is illegal, does not mean it is correct.




I never said it was correct, a lot of laws aren't "correct" but they are still the law.

There is an appeal going on in the High Court as to whether the laws are reasonable, we''ll see what comes out of that.


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## satanoperca (16 October 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I never said it was correct, a lot of laws aren't "correct" but they are still the law.




So we agree, the govnuts are incorrect.

I will not have a healthy child, trying to do his best, trying to get the best grades, feeling depressed because of govnuts poor decision making.


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## satanoperca (16 October 2020)

get better, sick of people not taking a stance









						Hotel quarantine inquiry calls extraordinary sitting
					

The inquiry probing Victoria’s botched hotel quarantine program has reopened, almost three weeks after it received closing submissions.




					www.news.com.au


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## Smurf1976 (16 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> On the assumption that this virus can be controlled and eliminated.



If it can't be, and I suspect you may be right on that, then economically we're in for more change than many are willing to acknowledge right now.


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## wayneL (18 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Down to 37 cases today. Its working.



Yes, it's destroying the economy very successfully


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## satanoperca (18 October 2020)

wayneL said:


> Yes, it's destroying the economy very successfully



You okay Wayne, this statement is not what you would normally say, please PM.

It is not destroying the economy, it HAS DESTROYED the economy in VIC.

You are somewhat correct, it is and continues to destroy the will, confidence and harmony of the Melbourne.

Time will show, Dan the man must GO.


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## basilio (19 October 2020)

Maybe Victoria is ahead of the curve in terms of protecting the community and the economy..

*Millions in Europe enter tough new coronavirus restrictions amid a 'very concerning' spike in cases*








						Millions in Europe enter tough new coronavirus restrictions amid a 'very concerning' spike in cases
					

Cases of COVID-19 in Europe have been soaring beyond levels seen in the first wave earlier this year.




					www.sbs.com.au


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## satanoperca (19 October 2020)

basilio said:


> Maybe Victoria is ahead of the curve in terms of protecting the community and the economy..



Need to correct your statement
"Maybe Vic is ahead of the curve in terms of protecting the lives of people, while destroying the economy"

Even that is not correct after last week.
1. Friend committed suicide, after losing his business, devoted family man who was always positive and a go getter
2. Another friend who closed down his business after 28 years of successful operating, his friends are making sure that everyday, one of us goes on a walk or a ride with him as we are concerned about his mental health also. Again, a normally extremely positive person, with piles of energy that is in a state of depression.

So yes, we saved some oldies and sacrificed many others lives.


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## basilio (19 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Need to correct your statement
> "Maybe Vic is ahead of the curve in terms of protecting the lives of people, while destroying the economy"
> 
> Even that is not correct after last week.
> ...




This is a wicked problem SP. The stresses on closed businesses and people struggling with the consequences of the lockdowns are profound.

However the situation in Europe as country after country is dealing with exploding COVID infections, illnesses , deaths *and collapsing economic consequences *isn't a viable direction either.

If one wanted to highlight China or some other countries that have successfully controlled the virus and have effective systems to keep it in check while still operating at a new COVID normal well and good.


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## moXJO (19 October 2020)

basilio said:


> This is a wicked problem SP. The stresses on closed businesses and people struggling with the consequences of the lockdowns are profound.
> 
> However the situation in Europe as country after country is dealing with exploding COVID infections, illnesses , deaths *and collapsing economic consequences *isn't a viable direction either.
> 
> If one wanted to highlight China or some other countries that have successfully controlled the virus and have effective systems to keep it in check while still operating at a new COVID normal well and good.



I'm not sure lockdowns over an extended period would even be legal. Labor is walking a dangerous line imo.


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## sptrawler (20 October 2020)

The big problem for Victoria will be when the welfare handouts stop, in the States that are relaxing shutdown restrictions employers are taking on board any workers who want to work, so when the restrictions are fully lifted the transition from government funded to employed should be fairly smooth.
With Victoria, the longer the businesses are closed, the slower it will be for the businesses to gear back up, one would think.
If Victoria is going for complete eradication, I would have thought at this late stage they would just test everyone, otherwise it will be a chase the tail situation for a long time.
As other States have proven, you can have 0 infections for a while then 1 pops up, it is hard to fathom Victoria's reasoning ATM.
Anyway hope it all works out well, it must be terrible going through what they have been through.

W.A seems to have a different problem, Mandurah has the highest unemployment rate in Australia( about 20%), but trying to get people to take a job is proving difficult, maybe when the extra welfare payments reduce it may improve.








						'Only got 15 applications': Staffing woes for venues continue
					

A staffing crisis has left one of Mandurah's most iconic venues stuck in limbo.




					www.mandurahmail.com.au


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## Knobby22 (20 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> I'm not sure lockdowns over an extended period would even be legal. Labor is walking a dangerous line imo.




I think they can only hold 2 weeks max.  They may go at one (after the Grand Final). They will lose support from the populace after that. Still winning in the polls though, hence the Feds getting involved to try to score political points.

There is an excellent article by an epidemiologist based in Sydney in the Age today arguing it is too early to end lockdown if Victoria ever wants to be connected to the other states again. Still a bit too much virus travelling undetected in the community. If we break the virus back we won't have a third wave, if we go too early, we will. A week or two extra will hopefully do it.

It is not logical to say we should have been a pariah state and hard shut the borders and  gone the UK route.  The UK had the same number of infections per day at the start of Melbourne shutdown (700), but now are getting 18,000 a day, 43,000 deaths and are going into shutdown again from a much worse position.

Also I am sure the Vic border wouldn't have held and you can be sure every other state would be in trouble.

Andrews deserves to be kicked out for mucking up quarantine but I think the route to remove it as was the only way to go for the sake of the rest of Australia and was supported by the Feds until recently.

If we can now get to stage 2 and then stage 1 (NSW rules) by Christmas, be open to interstate travel and reduced restrictions at hotels etc. a lot of businesses can make really good money and we can avoid any further lockdowns.


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## moXJO (20 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I think they can only hold 2 weeks max.  They may go at one (after the Grand Final). They will lose support from the populace after that. Still winning in the polls though, hence the Feds getting involved to try to score political points.
> 
> There is an excellent article by an epidemiologist based in Sydney in the Age today arguing it is too early to end lockdown if Victoria ever wants to be connected to the other states again. Still a bit too much virus travelling undetected in the community. If we break the virus back we won't have a third wave, if we go too early, we will. A week or two extra will hopefully do it.
> 
> ...



There are a few clusters forming in nsw. 
I think they could get away with another lockdown as people know that NSW gov races to reopen. Still be plenty of whingers though.

 Vic on the other hand just has one big never-ending lockdown.
That's where people start to have Jack of it. You can't just lock people up with no access to family. And that be your main preventative ongoing measure. Its a lazy approach.


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## Knobby22 (20 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> There are a few clusters forming in nsw.
> I think they could get away with another lockdown as people know that NSW gov races to reopen. Still be plenty of whingers though.
> 
> Vic on the other hand just has one big never-ending lockdown.
> That's where people start to have Jack of it. You can't just lock people up with no access to family. And that be your main preventative ongoing measure. Its a lazy approach.



It definitely can't go much longer.


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## Knobby22 (26 October 2020)

Lockdown over. 
0 cases today. Relief.

If we  do well over the next two weeks maybe interstate borders will reopen.


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## Knobby22 (27 October 2020)

Double donut day! No cases again two days in a row!

Australia owes the people of Victoria a debt as now all of Australia can open up and we will see a nationwide recovery.
Unless you lived through it, you can't understand how difficult it was but I am proud that 98% of Victorians did the hard yards and we are now in an enviable position.

Whilst other countries are in deep trouble, we as a nation now has the opportunity to be in a position of strength.
With such low numbers of the virus businesses will have a highly profitable Christmas shopping period and we will have a headstart on the rest of the world.

It has been a lesson to us about what matters and though there will be psychological scarring but mainly in a good way. We are better people for it. Those few people who acted against the common good, the very few who would not wear masks, would not get tested and generally put us all at risk have been noticed and will not be easily forgiven.

I just hope we don't relax and though everything will be open that most people do get tested if they feel sick and people are careful.


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## macca (27 October 2020)

I wonder what Dan will do when it comes back


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## wayneL (27 October 2020)

macca said:


> I wonder what Dan will do when it comes back



This is exactly what I was thinking macca, as it inevitably will.

Actually it has me questioning what Mao Tse Dan will do if there is an outbreak of the common cold, or zits, or something on that level?


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## sptrawler (27 October 2020)

Jeez @Knobby22 , we owe Victorians a debt, I thought of sending Dan a bribe to keep you all locked up.
Victorians are further up themselves, than Trump.


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## cynic (28 October 2020)

macca said:


> I wonder what Dan will do when it comes back



I expect Victorians will be discovering the answer to that question by winter 2021, if not beforehand.

'Tis exceedingly curious how, a man repeatedly claiming to be guided by science, continually neglects to acknowledge the role that seasonal changes play in the prevalence of certain viruses.


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## Smurf1976 (28 October 2020)

cynic said:


> 'Tis exceedingly curious how, a man repeatedly claiming to be guided by science, continually neglects to acknowledge the role that seasonal changes play in the prevalence of certain viruses.



That applies far more broadly indeed it applies to pretty much everything.

Eg I doubt you'll see too many of those on the pro-lockdown side advocating that those returning to work should drive their cars to get there and that public transport is best avoided for the foreseeable future, perhaps indefinitely, to keep the virus in check.

That's the harsh reality, cars beat public transport if you're dealing with a pandemic, but that won't go down at all well with one side of politics which isn't real keen on cars and prefers trains.

Such is the problem - politics gets in the way of science at every opportunity and to be clear, the political "Right" is just as bad and my example from the other side is just that, an example.


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## Junior (29 October 2020)

macca said:


> I wonder what Dan will do when it comes back




They have finally got their contact tracing in order.  The team is massive, and processes are now in place to deal with outbreaks.  Test results all come back same day or next day now.  I suspect we'll keep in under control without resorting again to lockdowns.


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## macca (29 October 2020)

Junior said:


> They have finally got their contact tracing in order.  The team is massive, and processes are now in place to deal with outbreaks.  Test results all come back same day or next day now.  I suspect we'll keep in under control without resorting again to lockdowns.




I hope so, I have family who live in Melbourne, one of them is looking for work and obviously that situation won't improve until Victoria does


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## Knobby22 (1 November 2020)

Does Newscorp know what a country is?
	

		
			
		

		
	







Thinking about it though, if a State Premier is a Dictator then logically Victoria is a country.


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## Garpal Gumnut (28 May 2021)

Stay safe and well all ASF members in Victoria over the next few weeks. 

Follow Public Health advice and get vaccinated. 

gg


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## tech/a (28 May 2021)

Bloody hell booked into Sorrento in 2 weeks 
o


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## Knobby22 (31 May 2021)

tech/a said:


> Bloody hell booked into Sorrento in 2 weeks
> o



11 today, stay right away.
I don't know if we can beat the Indian varient. They are saying some people appear to infect others within 2 days of catching it.


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## tech/a (31 May 2021)

Yes good idea! looks like QLD


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## bellenuit (31 May 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> I don't know if we can beat the Indian varient.




And apparently there is now a Vietnamese variant that exhibits strains of both the UK variant and Indian variant that is worse again. Only a matter of time.

Anyone not taking the opportunity to get vaccinated now while relatively easy to get it is playing a high risk game IMO.


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## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2021)

Commiserations to all Victorians on not being able to host the AFL Grand Final in late September at the MCG.

I spent some years ( two in Toorak ) in Melbourne and enjoyed Grand Final week. 

Hopefully next year.









						Perth to hold 2021 AFL grand final as locked-down Victoria loses event
					

Perth's Optus Stadium will hold the AFL grand final for the first time after an MCG decider in potentially locked-down Melbourne was officially ruled out.




					thenewdaily.com.au
				




gg


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## sptrawler (31 August 2021)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Commiserations to all Victorians on not being able to host the AFL Grand Final in late September at the MCG.
> 
> I spent some years ( two in Toorak ) in Melbourne and enjoyed Grand Final week.
> 
> ...



The problem with it being in Perth, the freeway will be a parking lot before and after the game.

Guess if you can't beat them you should join them, I must check out the price of tickets, that is if @Humid and I aren't tiling my bathroom.🤣


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## SirRumpole (31 August 2021)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Commiserations to all Victorians on not being able to host the AFL Grand Final in late September at the MCG.
> 
> I spent some years ( two in Toorak ) in Melbourne and enjoyed Grand Final week.
> 
> ...




Even more so since there are no WA teams involved.

Will anyone bother turning up ?


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## sptrawler (31 August 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Even more so since there are no WA teams involved.
> 
> Will anyone bother turning up ?



My guess is it will be a sell out, there isn't anything else to do. 🤣


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## SirRumpole (31 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> My guess is it will be a sell out, there isn't anything else to do. 🤣




Good point.


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## Knobby22 (1 September 2021)

No footy, will there be cricket?
Deaths have started, one a woman in her 40s who died at home.
We are all pretty miserable. Dan is promising some relaxations today.

I just hope we stsrt to get looked after with the vaccine like NSW. We need it and are falling behind getting it. Large cities should get it first.


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## IFocus (1 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> No footy, will there be cricket?
> Deaths have started, one a woman in her 40s who died at home.
> We are all pretty miserable. Dan is promising some relaxations today.
> 
> I just hope we stsrt to get looked after with the vaccine like NSW. We need it and are falling behind getting it. Large cities should get it first.





WA is pretty happy getting the GF but its a strange world normally getting one up on the Vics would be cause for celebrations but no one is gloating and in fact there is a lot of sympathy.

Hang in there.


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## basilio (1 September 2021)

IFocus said:


> WA is pretty happy getting the GF but its a strange world normally getting one up on the Vics would be cause for celebrations but no one is gloating and in fact there is a lot of sympathy.
> 
> Hang in there.




I really, really hope the  AFL Final series keeps going and there is a Grand Final with a real public in WA.

But I feel that everything is on tenterhooks all over the country. NSW and Vic are in serious trouble. Meanwhile COVID positive truck drivers are being noted in SA and Queensland. Just how realistic is it expect the rest of Australia not to be infected by the growing and spread of  cases in the two most populous States ?

The need to vaccinate everyone with a pulse ASAP has never been more urgent. If Bhutan could do it in a week why couldn't we do it in, say, a month ?









						Bhutan vaccinates 90 percent of adults against COVID in a week
					

UNICEF hails mass drive as ‘arguably the fastest vaccination campaign to be executed during a pandemic’.




					www.aljazeera.com
				












						More interstate truck drivers test positive in SA, COVID-19 traces in Adelaide's wastewater
					

South Australian health authorities have revealed that five COVID-positive truck drivers have travelled through the state in the past six days, while new wastewater testing results have revealed traces of the virus in Adelaide's north and south.




					www.abc.net.au


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## IFocus (1 September 2021)

basilio said:


> I really, really hope the  AFL Final series keeps going and there is a Grand Final with a real public in WA.
> 
> But I feel that everything is on tenterhooks all over the country. NSW and Vic are in serious trouble. Meanwhile COVID positive truck drivers are being noted in SA and Queensland. Just how realistic is it expect the rest of Australia not to be infected by the growing and spread of  cases in the two most populous States ?
> 
> ...





Yes nothing to say we cannot have another outbreak here in WA if so it will be a serve lockdown don't know where that would leave the GF


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## sptrawler (17 September 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Even more so since there are no WA teams involved.
> 
> Will anyone bother turning up ?



The Perth Grand Final tickets sold out in 9 minutes.


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## SirRumpole (17 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The Perth Grand Final tickets sold out in 9 minutes.




More fool me !   

Anyway, should be a great match. I'll be watching and I hope the Dees win.


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## Knobby22 (23 September 2021)

Not sure if this is the right thread but I don't think its worth starting another.

In the Age today, some now ex-construction workers are begging for their job back. They have been sacked for attending the rally.
It seems the Government, the employers, the Unions are united so its game over.
John Sitka, the Union boss,  said they can go to Mildura and do fruit picking.
Having injured quite a few police of which some are in hospital, wrecking the Union offices, desecrating the Shrine, blocking traffic etc. for some reason hasn't gone down well.

 The rioters are now just a rump now and are basically a disparate mixture of three groups who haven't really got that much in common,

Far right nationalists  characterised by waving of Australian flags.
Conspiracy nuts characterised by their attacks on the reporters and crazy signs.
Anarchists who think of themselves as freedom fighters. They don't recognise the right of the government to pass lockdown laws.


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