# Bill Stacy?



## darrenmilburn

Has anyone heard or know of Bill Stacy and his training methods?


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## BradK

Nope... but if it SOUNDS too good to be TRUE... It probably is! 

Brad


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## Ageo

He originally learnt off Jamie Mcntyre (sp?) and then worked hand in hand with Andrew Dimitry promoting credit spreads. He hasnt been trading for long but apparently he has alot of success. The only thing that doesnt sit right with me is he is charging alot of money for coaching (which he doesnt have much experience).

Thats all i know


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## Glen48

Any updates on this bloke he is making some big claims still???


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## stargazer

Hi

I liken these individuals to those that were selling low carb pastas and cereals at $30 a box and justifying it.  Believe it or not people were buying the stuff.  And they are still over weight....

Cheers
SG


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## mss1963

well thats the response I'd expect from the ill informed just like the rest of the so called wealth and trading experts that are out there. The majority of people utilising what Bill Stacy teaches and that  stick to the rules are making money(management of your money taught also stop loss etc). And of all the so called experts out there Bill was the only person ever to put his money where his mouth was and get paid out of the profits you made where are the experts when it comes to an offer like this you dont see any other person ever to offer something like that.  Also to Bill its personal you are not a number and you do pay a hell of lot more to earn a hell of a lot  less from many other so called experts. If all these brokers were so good they'd also be traders instead of "BROKE"Rs. But they just take your money Win, Lose or draw. But in typical Aussie fashion we love to bash the successful and genuine people.


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## OneDayWealth

Hi guys. 

Good to see that Darren ended up making his decision to join OneDayWealth. 

Look, I totally understand your skepticism guys and often things that appear too good are too good and I always encourage healthy debate. My returns are totally real and verifiable and I've been day trading for nearly 5 years now. I have spent a lot of time developing my method for myself but was eventually convinced by people close to me to create an education product and share it with others and that's ended being a great business decision - no doubt. 

Basically I will show anyone who wants to join how to Day Trade Options. I have developed some simple tools that are making all the difference and use a really simple method of analysis. Entries are somewhat discretionary but exits are mechanical, simple and explicit. 

My method aims to show people how to create a $2,000 - $5,000 per week profit/income/whatever you want to call it using a relatively small $20,000 bank. Every single claim I make about my income and actual trades is real, true and can be verified. I work under an AFSL, I have PS146 certification and if I made any unsubstantiated claims I would be in real trouble. I take this very seriously.

As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I seem to be the only one in Australia teaching people how to day trade Australian options. I use simple line charts, very simple entry rules and have been having great success. It wasn't always like that of course but now I've settled down into a regular and reliable method. 

My website is www.onedaywealth.com and I welcome any of you to call me up and quiz me as much as you like until you are satisfied that I'm just an Aussie bloke trying to grow my business by helping people to create a real and large income. 

My phone numbers are all over the website and I can be contacted most of the time. I do charge a lot for personal 1-on-1 coaching but that's only because I stop trading while I devote all my time to you but it's an unnecessary luxury as my online movies and DVDs will show you everything you will need to know to get going. 

I also have a you tube Chanel where I give many examples of the power of day trading options. Just go to your tube and search for OneDayWealth (all one word). 

I'd be glad to answer any questions anyone has. I have no desire to rip anyone off and I can assure you my methods work and day trading options in Australia is possible once you have the right tools and a simple method. 

Many people ask "_Well Bill, if you're making so much money why are you selling DVDs_". The answer is that selling education is a great business. Day Trading Options will not make me a millionaire (but it will save me from the humiliation of a job) but growing a large educational business just might.

Cheers,

*Bill Stacy*
http://www.onedaywealth.com
1800 441 413 (free call)
041 505 2020 (vodafone)
(08) 8379 7321 (Adelaide)


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## ColB

> Originally posted by MSS1963
> 
> "well thats the response I'd expect from the ill informed just like the rest of the so called wealth and trading experts that are out there. The majority of people utilising what Bill Stacy teaches and that stick to the rules are making money(management of your money taught also stop loss etc). And of all the so called experts out there Bill was the only person ever to put his money where his mouth was and get paid out of the profits you made where are the experts when it comes to an offer like this you dont see any other person ever to offer something like that. Also to Bill its personal you are not a number and you do pay a hell of lot more to earn a hell of a lot less from many other so called experts. If all these brokers were so good they'd also be traders instead of "BROKE"Rs. But they just take your money Win, Lose or draw. But in typical Aussie fashion we love to bash the successful and genuine people."




Well you have to laugh at these sort of posts.  First we have Darren Milburn with his one and only post back on 14th December 2008 trying to spread the gospel of 'Bill Stacey' without actually saying 'hey, have a look at how much money Bill Stacy can help you make b Joining PLANET WEALTH!! ie:

"I made $18,662 Last week"
"How I retired after 30 days!!"

Now we have first time poster MSS1963 (obviously a Bill Stacy subscriber) criticising ASF posters for negative comment directed at Stacy.

If Stacy wants to advertise on ASF I think he needs to pay for it and not do it via phantom posters.

Please note that this post was being compiled whilst Bill Stacy posted his article above.  Basically, I rest my case as I could see the advertisement coming.  I must be psychic like traderpaul!!


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## mizonax

Hi,

I’m a proud to say that I’m a OneDayWealth student. 

I became associated with Bill Stacy through Planet Wealth back in 2005. I can honestly say that his passion, honesty and integrity made Planet Wealth what it is today. His departure from Planet Wealth in my view also saw the passion leave the entire site.

Earlier this year when my trading had taken a turn for the worst, I was fortunate to cross paths with Bill Stacy again.  I filled out the opt in form on his web site and within half an hour he rang me. Who does this?  

We talked for about two and a half hours about life, no sales pitch or pressure from a closer to buy a product, just a chat between two mates about life.  I was overwhelmed as I hold Bill in very high regard and purchased his product.:bier:

He immediately gave me a personal tour of his forum and took me through his day trading strategy step by step. I can honestly say that I have purchased several trading products and brought many books on the subject and have never in my life received service like this, ever.

Bill gave me his suggested guide lines for learning his material and the correct path to follow. His online tutorials and his impeccable behind the scenes service is unbeatable. I have contacted him several times since purchasing his product which has either been on a weekend or late at night and I have always been able to access him. 

I must admit that I jumped into Day Trading a little soon and did make some donations at first. Not following Bills plan did cost me several thousand dollars . After quickly pulling my head in and doing what I had been told by Bill things turned dramatically for me. In the last three weeks not only have made back all my donations but have managed to replace half of my initial trading bank. That’s over $14000 for those who need to see the dollar signs.

This stuff works guys and is the best thing I have done - *EVER*. Needless to say I now do this full time. :dance:

I must admit that I’m a little biased when it comes to Bill as I believe that the  shines from his .... , but if you are willing to give him and his unique system a go, I’m sure you will be of the same opinion to. I’m proud to have Bill as a mentor and a friend. 

Cheers Rob
:alcohol:


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## OneDayWealth

Jeez Col, is it just me that you have a problem with or all successful traders?

Firstly, I never put Darren up to anything. He posted here in December but didn't join OneDayWealth until the 6th of January 2009. So you clearly have no idea at all what you are talking about there. 

Secondly, I have nothing to do with Planet Wealth anymore having sold all my shares in 2006.

Third, Yes, I believe I know who MSS is but he is free to speak his mind and being a member of my website would make him qualified to offer his opinion I would think. 

Fourth, I am more than willing to advertise anywhere but if there is a rule against posting URLs I'll remove mine gladly - until then I believe I am well within my rights to post a link to my home page. I'll stand to be corrected on this though so please tell me if I'm breaking any rules. 

Fifth, I don't hire, utilise or misrepresent myself as a "phantom" poster and I resent the insinuation that I do. 

Sixth, I was responding to aspersions cast upon my character and have every right to do so. *This thread is about ME *so if I'm not going to step in and defend my name then what do you think I should do? Just let people write any rubbish they like about me unaddressed? I don't think so. 

Do you have any room in your mind for the truth or do you just presume that everyone in business is a crook? That's a very leftist view of life and if you lean that way then it's strange that you are lurking in a forum like this. 

I said everything I write on my website is true and if you have a problem with that then say so and challenge me on it. I will stand to any scrutiny because all I'm doing is showing people my method of trading and charging them less than many will make in a single week of using my method. Do you have a problem with that? 

Do you have anything else constructive to add?


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## doctorponi

I am also a member of OneDayWealth since 2008.* The claims that are being made in this forum about his character and his business is absolutely rubbish.  I have not come across a down to earth character as Bill.  His website and forums are probably the most educational of all sites I have come across including this one.  That is why I join him as a member.  When you join you will be amazed at the constant support he personally gives his students.  Nobody does this anymore these days.  Almost everybody just takes you money and you do not hear from them anymore.  Not the Bill I know.  If you do not believe me then join the forum go and watch his educational videos on how to day trade Options on ASX and join the live chat line to hear and see Bill trade live.  The claims that he makes are all true and you can actually watch him do it.  His students (me included) are encouraged to observe and learn how it is done.  And if that is not enough he offers free contacts to him for help and just for a chat.  No question is too stupid for this fine young Australian.  I am saying this because I am not even an Australian and I do not live in Australia.  What is wrong with you guys down south?  You seem to enjoy hacking each other out.


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## jackson8

keep pumping it up guys

strange how all the first time posters have come out of the woods or maybe not so strange

this thread should have been included in the  handshaking post
go.go gadget


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## OneDayWealth

Do you have a problem Jackson? 

This thread was linked to on my forum and people are logging on to have their say. Isn't that what a forum is for?

Bill Stacy


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## jackson8

OneDayWealth said:


> Do you have a problem Jackson?
> 
> This thread was linked to on my forum and people are logging on to have their say. Isn't that what a forum is for?
> 
> Bill Stacy




as stated by onedaywealth in previous posts

Look, I totally understand your skepticism guys and often things that appear too good are too good and I always encourage healthy debate. My returns are totally real and verifiable and I've been day trading for nearly 5 years now

My method aims to show people how to create a $2,000 - $5,000 per week profit/income/whatever you want to call it using a relatively small $20,000 bank

Day Trading Options will not make me a millionaire

.......if you had been trading for the last 5 years making $2000-$5000 per week you would now be a millionare....

yes bill stacey i do have a problem with people making blatant unrealistic claims to line their own pockets and fleecing the lambs at the same time..

as far as i know this is a forum for exchanging information not blatant advertising.


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## OneDayWealth

This thread started with a question...



> Has anyone heard or know of Bill Stacy and his training methods?




I responded with information and a link to my website and some information about what I do to answer the critics who responded. If placing my link offends you so much then I think you have a real problem. How will my placing a link harm you or lower the quality of this thread? It's directly relevant. 

If the moderators tell me to remove my links I will. Until then I see no reason to. If I had just placed a link to my website without adding anything relevant to this discussion then I might understand your "comment".

*EDIT:* I went back to remove my links so as not to "offend" anyone but the post can not be edited anymore (some sort of time limit for editing?). Moderators may remove my unsightly links so as not to offend the little dears.


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## jason502

Have any of you guys that are throwing these lack luster comments around even had a look into Bills website and his training program? Even though we are first time posters we are here to defend the reputation of a guy who we have brought a product off, and has well exceeded my expectation of customers service and will help you in any way possible. His programme is the most informative ive come across and helps you right the way through from first time understanding of the stockmarket to setup of trading accounts. His chatlines help and encourage you through your first and ongoing trades. I have only the highest respect and appreciation for him and his programme to help people who want to get ahead in the financial world.


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## ISLU13

Hi everyone

As a One Day Wealth member I would also like to tell you about my experience.

Bill Stacy is a man of exceptionally high standards and integrity. 
He delivers much more than what is expected of him, every single time!

The purpose of this post is not to attack anybody, but rather to stand up for what is right 
Bill does not deserve to be bad-mouthed like this, on the contrary everyone out there who has not made his acquaintance should seriously consider giving him a call. He is one of the most trustworthy people I have ever met and is completely transparent in his dealings – a true friend!

I can honestly vouch for his trading strategies – I have an Actuarial & Financial Mathematics degree and everything he teaches has been covered at University.

How would you feel if someone said something about you that’s not true? I believe everyone deserves to be treated with respect 

Thank you,

A


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## jackson8

jason502 said:


> Have any of you guys that are throwing these lack luster comments around even had a look into Bills website and his training program? Even though we are first time posters we are here to defend the reputation of a guy who we have brought a product off, and has well exceeded my expectation of customers service and will help you in any way possible. His programme is the most informative ive come across and helps you right the way through from first time understanding of the stockmarket to setup of trading accounts. His chatlines help and encourage you through your first and ongoing trades. I have only the highest respect and appreciation for him and his programme to help people who want to get ahead in the financial world.





these wealth creation sites are just one of dozens available to those who are eager to make it in the financial world and would lead the uninitiated to believe that it is a free ride from here on out to fantastic riches.

the reality is that its just not true

and its just a basic protective instinct that some of us may have to educate those who may be looking at some of these extravagantly priced courses.


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## cutz

Geez, Gary,

There is some serious cringe material posted here, best to ignore this type of rubbish and hope this thread slips away into the night.


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## OneDayWealth

I understand your motives but I am not like "the others". I spell out the risks and insist on heavy practice before placing one cent. In fact I exist because I have experienced pretty much all that you have described. I started my business as a solution to all of that and have geared my movies towards explaining how not to lose your money and exactly how to make money. I'm not sure what else people could want from me. 

Cutz, what's your problem? Do you have a problem with someone defending themselves too? 

Sounds like this forum has a lot of members who are really against successful trading. Bizarre.


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## Buster

G'Day Bill,



OneDayWealth said:


> Cutz, what's your problem? Do you have a problem with someone defending themselves too?
> 
> Sounds like this forum has a lot of members who are really against successful trading. Bizarre.




To be honest mate, I think you're flogging a dead horse.. personally I'd give it up as it only seems to be adding fuel to the fire..

I have absolutely no idea who you are, nor you me, however I expect that you are all that you claim to be, it's just that the way it has panned out in this thread, what with all the first time posters and all, it looks like a ramp for your business.  Unfortunately these forums get hit with this sort of stuff quite regularly and I think some of the old hands like to protect the newbies (as they should) from ramping/advertising/spam.

I don't think anybody has gone so far as to call you a crook or scammer Bill, and nor would I expect them to, this forum is probably the best (that I am a member of anyway) there is in this regard.  Also there are many, many successful traders that are members of the forum, and their posts are generally revered by stock market newbies like myself, so little evidence of 'tall poppy' syndrome here either. 

Absolutely, as you point out, you have the right of response and without doubt should clarify any misconceptions that may be raised.  I'd tip that nobody has any drama's with that either.. It's just that it probably could have been handled a little better.

Anyway over to you blue leader,  and good luck.

Regards,

Buster


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## Glen48

Learning how to place trades is one problem knowing which one to go long or short is the secret to trading...I don't know if Bill shows what to look out for or not..he has contacted myself and I can only say he has given me good info so far...


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## OneDayWealth

Thanks Buster. 

Refreshing to hear the voice of reason cutting through. 

I really do try to help new traders and Glen, yep, I do use a very simple of break out to the new high and the new low with confirmation with a higher trough or lower peak (respectively) as a signal. Very simple stuff. 

I really want to help people make money. It's a matter of pride with me. That's why I'm so available to all my peeps. I want to smash the myth that the stock market is a place to lose your money.

I'm happy for someone who considers themselves the voice of this forum to contact me directly at the phone numbers listed previously for a private chat and explanation of my methods and a tour of my strategy and the site. I've always got time for curious new investors and inquisitive experienced traders alike. 

If you think I have gained free publicity I am willing to make a chunky donation to your favourite charity to compensate. Let's see if some good can come from this warm debate.


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## mazzatelli1000

OneDayWealth said:


> My method aims to show people how to create a $2,000 - $5,000 per week profit/income/whatever you want to call it using a relatively small $20,000 bank. Every single claim I make about my income and actual trades is real, true and can be verified. I work under an AFSL, I have PS146 certification and if I made any unsubstantiated claims I would be in real trouble. I take this very seriously.




Lol, you are indeed a gun trader if you can do this.
Let me get this right:

You can make $8k minimum in a month using $20k (using regular T margin, as $20k would not qualify you for other margin accounts esp. Oz options) - that is a 40% return per month

This means your students can achieve returns akin to Professional Prop firm traders utilising risk based margin accounts!! 

Where do I sign?? :


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## kam75

OneDayWealth said:


> selling education is a great business.




Glad you're being honest with us.  But I have yet to find an honest wealth creation spruiker.   Therefore, anyone, before you pay thousands of dollars to a salesman for his 'education', your question to them should be 

''how much will I make back in a year, 5 years, 10 years by following your course''. - If they can't answer, walk away. 

Then ask them to give you an underwritten, legal guarantee.  - If they won't, walk away.

That's how I've dealt with spruikers before and it worked.
regards


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## TraderPaul

Hi folks,

..... something smells like spam,  in this thread ..... too many first-time
posters coming out of the woodwork to support this spruiker ... !~!

Happy Easter.  

  paul



=====


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## OneDayWealth

> Lol, you are indeed a gun trader if you can do this.
> Let me get this right:
> 
> You can make $8k minimum in a month using $20k (using regular T margin, as $20k would not qualify you for other margin accounts esp. Oz options) - that is a 40% return per month
> 
> This means your students can achieve returns akin to Professional Prop firm traders utilising risk based margin accounts!!
> 
> 
> Where do I sign??




I know, sounds insane but it's true. Not only that but my recent results (this year) indicate that much higher returns are possible. I consider myself a pretty agricultural trader at best. 

I've said this often...

I get on too late
I get off too early
I pay too much and
I sell too cheap. 

If you can do better than me (e.g. you're a really good chartist) you will do MUCH better than me. The power of options still astounds me. I actually believe that a good technical trader can return 40%+ per week - not per month but I'm forced to be sensible in my marketing due to my AFSL licensee so all I claim is that you should be bale to make $2,000-$4,000 per $20k and believe me from what I have seen over the last five years that is very conservative. 



> Glad you're being honest with us. But I have yet to find an honest wealth creation spruiker. Therefore, anyone, before you pay thousands of dollars to a salesman for his 'education', your question to them should be
> 
> ''how much will I make back in a year, 5 years, 10 years by following your course''. - If they can't answer, walk away.
> 
> Then ask them to give you an underwritten, legal guarantee. - If they won't, walk away.
> 
> That's how I've dealt with spruikers before and it worked.
> regards




I'm glad you can appreciate my honesty Cam. I'm not a salesman. I'm a trader sharing what I do. For that I charge a fee equal to a conservative 1 month of returns based on a **** month (to be frank). A true "salesman could sell something they didn't believe in - I never could. 

As to how much you will make back in 5 years or 10 years...lol...I have absolutely no idea. I can't control you actions or what risks you will take any more than a driving instructor can guarantee that you will never have a crash after he has taught you to drive. 

If you want a guarantee I suggest you buy a toaster. I make no guarantees other than I guarantee to share everything I know with you. Here's how guarantees work with trading educators (and I've been behind the scenes of some pretty big names in the industry). What they do is they pack so much crap and useless information into their courses so that no reasonable human would ever be able to master it all. They do this for two main reasons.

1) So that you feel dumb because you don't know it all - so dumb that you will never ask for a refund because you'll feel that within yourself you have not mastered all the dozens of different strategies that have piled onto you so you won't feel "right" in asking for a refund.

2) Their Lawyers have insisted that they put enough information into their courses so that no one will ever sue them due to lack of content causing actual loss. 

I am the exact opposite. I don't offer any refunds at all so I don't have that fear. My job is not to protect myself but to deliver a result to you. I am of the opinion that the best and biggest result will come from keeping things as simple as possible so that you can get the best results as fast as possible. I explain that trading is risky at the best of times due to the two main types of risks. 

General market risk and Specific Market Risk.

General market risk is when you have done everything right and have done all your research and made a good trading decision and everything is lined up for a profit...and someone flies a plan into a building and the market tanks (presuming you weren't in Puts at the time) and you lose money. 

Specific Market Risk is when you make the wrong specific choice of trade and lose money. 

There are other types of risk as well. Namely, educational risk which is when you are trying to trade without knowing what you are doing or being aware of all the reasonable risks. Attitude risk where you don't really care what happens and you treat trading like gambling on black or red. There is fear risk where you are so scared of the market have such little faith in your trading method that you cut your profits short and let your losses run and so soon blow up your account. There is sizing risk where you get the trade right but you under-power your trade sapping it of the ability to produce for you or forcing you to wait far too long (much longer than is reasonable to expect) for your trade to return unrealistic and uncommon profits. For example you place a tiny amount on a trade and need it to profit 200% before you make enough money to make the exercise worth while as opposed to sizing it according to the average return. 

What I mean by this is that while I was creating and researching what an average option was moving on the average day I found there where very few 100% returns on options daily (about 2 or 3 per year from my experience). Not many 50% returns (maybe 1 or 2 per month - if you're lucky enough to catch them). A few more 20-25% trades (maybe 1 a week or fortnight) but what I saw almost every day was a 5-10% move in most at or in the money options (I prefer to trade in the money). 

Once I had established that I then needed to decide how much power I was going to give each trade. Obviously 1 or 2k wasn't enough. I tried placing trades all the way from 5k to 10, 20, 50 even 100k and found that the best "stealthiest" size to make use of the average rise in value was around 20k. 

This was both affordable and useful. How many times have you seen an option move from $1.00 to $1.10? or 50c-55c, or 80c-88c, or $2.00-$2.20 or $3.00-$3.30? All the time right? Well with $20k on a trade you can easily buy and sell and make $1,000 - $2,000 per successful trade. If you can grab 3 or 4 of those that's $6,000-$7,000 a week. Minus a few losses and you have the makings of a simple strategy that can deliver $2,000-$5,000 a week (easily!). 

I then compound those returns and soon I'm trading with a $30,000-$40,000 bank. As soon as you reach $40,000 you can bank $20,000 and start trading with profit only in what I call the "Risk Free Zone". 

Now this might sound like a lot of money to you but how many people do you know who pay $20,000 for a ****ty Commodore, or even worse a Subaru! How much money does that make them? Will that car return them a wage? Obviously not. So you see that even though $20,000 might seem like a lot of money to some people it's not really and it's a hell cheap cost for your freedom. 

I keep things simple by trading less than half a dozen stocks and I only chose one at a time and use really simple (basically new high and new low with confirmation) breakout patterns for entry and simple exit candles (on the wrong side of a tried and tested simple moving average) for an exit signal and I have a surprisingly simple and yet really effective trading "method" that not only works well but works astonishingly well. No more overnight trades, all the money in the bank every night and really simple to learn. 

I don't need to offer guarantees because my method works and can be understood by even the most simpleton of brand new traders. Coupled with a simple spreadsheet that I developed to tell you exactly how much profit (or loss) you have made at every half cent increment in option value and a simple layout regime for my charts and presto...mucho free-o Australianas. 

You see, I don't mind if you want to label me as a Spruiker. The fact is that all I am doing is sharing what I know with anyone who wants to know it. I don;t care if you buy my stuff or not because I have plenty of people who do and all those ordinary people want is freedom from their job and the **** feeling they have when they have to keep going back there morning after morning for a miserable wage. I am offering them hope and they are snatching it up in droves and every single person who has bought in and seen the way I present my method and show exactly step by step how to do it has had nothing but praise which means I must be doing something right. Right? 

Listen, I'm just a ex welder **** kicker high school drop out with some IT skills and I'm using them to share my knowledge with others. I've been in the wealth game long enough to know that the people you describe exist and I wish they didn't. Some charge access to the seminar supermarkets where all they do is present the hint of a strategy and then ask you to keep buying and buying and buying the more and more and more advanced courses until you just get sick of them and quit. 

I on the other hand decided to be different and offer everything you will ever need to know straight off the bat and I can tell you I am copping my fair share of grief from the industry for doing so. I have been shunned by nearly ever corner of the "wealth industry" for showing way too much up front. I don't care. All I care is that you succeed using my method and are happy enough to come and hang out with me at the after party. I don't want enemies or people complaining or any of that bad ****. I just want to finally give us what we've always wanted. A strategy that is easy to follow, works and actually makes heaps of profit and I'm confident that's exactly what I deliver. 

Like I said, I know what you mean but I'm different. Way different! In fact I'm going to go as far as to presume that I am still one of us. A real trader ( I trade almost every day using the exact same technique that I share with all my clients) teaching traders to trade in a way that actually (surprise surprise) works!


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## OneDayWealth

Paul, grow a brain.


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## OneDayWealth

P.S. Sorry Mazz, I don't even know what  T Margin is. I just use real cash to make more real cash.


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## mazzatelli1000

OneDayWealth said:


> P.S. Sorry Mazz, I don't even know what  T Margin is. I just use real cash to make more real cash.




LOL
Then you education is lacking if you don't know what margin is
Ironic since it can help to enhance returns, the same reason you advocate the use of options

Since you to share, how do you deal with slippage which can be fckn ridiculous for Oz options???


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## OneDayWealth

lol right back @ ya.

Margin isn't relevant when you buy and sell options. I don't concern myself with things that are totally irrelevant to what I do.


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## mazzatelli1000

OneDayWealth said:


> lol right back @ ya.
> 
> Margin isn't relevant when you buy and sell options. I don't concern myself with things that are totally irrelevant to what I do.




LOL 
Risk based margin possibly allows less margin required for long options!!!
So instead of putting the full amount up for a LONG (yes long option) you can put up less depending on the risk factors

It is very relevant
Well you have learnt something new

Remember to give me a cut of profits when you introduce it in your course


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## tech/a

At $5000 a pop why wouldn't you.
I'll bet he gets more than 10/mth!
Brilliant/Readers Digest should take notes!
Rudd should make it part of the Stimulus package
and First home buyers should invest $5k 
---First after all in 10 mths you'll own the place!

Finally this maybe of interest.
See ASIC notice on all replies.

(4) It is not permitted for any member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor.


----------



## jackson8

cutz said:


> Geez, Gary,
> 
> There is some serious cringe material posted here, best to ignore this type of rubbish and hope this thread slips away into the night.




after the write up above i have to agree with you .
you know what they say even bad attention is still attention. 
the more we reply gives them more opportunity to spruik


----------



## OneDayWealth

You know what?

I'm done with you guys. What a bunch of losers.  I'm trying to help people here and all you can do is critisize and complain like a bunch of bitter old women. You wouldn't know a genuine opportunity if it came and smashed you in the face!


----------



## doctorponi

Jackson8,

If you are so critical of Bill and his products then show us what you have got.  

We are all searching for financial freedom and I am sure this includes you.

Let us be the critics of your website, your forum, your educational and your financial products.  If you have nothing then I suggest you bow your head low, put your tail between your legs and say no more. 

I admire those who have courage to work and act - not those who just make noises.

By the way if you go and visit OneDayWealth forums, you will not see this mud slinging nonsense.  I suspect all the people there got there because they have the right mindsets and attitudes - something the founder insist on with his students.

Poni


----------



## Timmy

Well, I seem to have missed all of this today … the thread seems to have run its course.

Couple of things.

This is a thread that gives the ASF policy on forum spam.  If asking questions about a product/service or providing a response to a question/questions, please read this thread.

Bill, please note the policy on promoting your product/service on ASF – generally speaking a link to your website in your signature is all that is OK.  Your listing of your website link and phone numbers is not OK, but I will leave them there (unless Joe decides otherwise).

Also, Bill, please note what tech/a has said:



tech/a said:


> (4) It is not permitted for any member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor.




This is an ASIC policy, and what they rule on must be adhered too - more on this can be found on this thread.

Bill, you would not believe the amount of queries we get here on ASF from one-time posters seemingly innocently enquiring about a product or service - queries which are then answered by a barrage of other first-time posters saying what a great product/service it is.  I, for one, have little patience with such crap and am happy to delete first and ask questions later.  Now, I am not saying that this is necessarily what has happened here, and like I said, the thread seems to have run its course.  But our members are generally a pretty good indication on what is acceptable to them and what is not.

As a piece of free advice, and FWIW to you, your reception on ASF will be warmer if you contribute to the forum with some posts/threads discussing some trades (winners and losers - no one is perfect), what triggered the entry, the exit etc.  There is the occasional person providing a good/service on ASF who does contribute positively in such a manner, and of course such contributions are valued more highly than simply those setting forth the case for some good/service.


----------



## jackson8

doctorponi said:


> Jackson8,
> 
> 
> 
> By the way if you go and visit OneDayWealth forums, you will not see this mud slinging nonsense.  I suspect all the people there got there because they have the right mindsets and attitudes - something the founder insist on with his students.
> 
> Poni




hi pony
yes i have visited the website and i can see why you need to charge so much just too cover the expenses of running it . i have seen far better informative  sites with more integrity and much more education just doing free web searches.

the links at the bottom for trade examples are no proof of success my six year old could create such proof with my trading platform and microsoft paint application

as for the testimonials well lets face it , anyone could write those and their is no confirmation that those people even exist.

the link to earnings disclaimer well what happened to that one , just links to more spruiking for a traders paradise add.

have you read the affiliation page explains why you are all spruiking along , but i would be asking for more than ten % to pay for the loss of your own integrity

should i go on?


----------



## cutz

Yeah,

I checked the site for a laugh, first example 6-2-09  buy 30 CBA FEB calls @ $1.10, sell @ $1.22, same day, so what the point of trading the options, why don’t you trade the friggin shares, $409 in commish and fees what a joke, you need to have crystal balls to carry out that sort of trade.

BTW, people criticizing are not trying to prove anything, just ringing the warning bells for a sucker that may be tempted.

EDIT>>Who even knows if they are real trades, if you're going to give results how about some real proof.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Mod you can delete all links and can delete all my posts or even this whole stupid thread. 

Jaxon, cutz and all your other gutless lurkers you are defaming me and calling me a liar and I take offence at your accusations. Every single word on my website is true. All trades are real and can be proven. You are small and useless people who will never amount to anything.


----------



## doctorponi

*So you do not have anything to offer me or to anybody else who is a member of this forum.*

It appears that you only have cyncisms and personal character assination of another person that you do not agree with.* So much for freedom of speech! well I will say you can remain where you are.* OneDayWealth will succeed because the man behind it has character.* So what if the man goes on to become wealthy and successful.* I will say good luck on him.
Finally, I did not asked to be given "warning bells" or parental advice.* I am mature enough to make my own decisions.  You guys who have posted here hundreds of time in the past - I will say this to you: that is not a qualification for anything.  May be some of you should take a closer look at your past posts and see how much of them were negatives and how many actual helped other members and traders.

Goodluck on your journey.


----------



## LM

OneDayWealth said:


> Mod you can delete all links and can delete all my posts or even this whole stupid thread.
> 
> Jaxon, cutz and all your other gutless lurkers you are defaming me and calling me a liar and I take offence at your accusations. Every single word on my website is true. All trades are real and can be proven. You are small and useless people who will never amount to anything.





Prove it then!


----------



## JNR007

Hi guys, I started my road in wealth creation 4 years with 21st century academy who use to be good but are now just a marketing machine. 

I then did Nik Haliks Technical Analysis course which taught me alot about charting also read many books by Louise Bedford and Chris Tate which i found to be very good but it hasn't been until i met Bill Stacy that I actually found a system of how to put all of that together and actually place a trade. 

After many years of being jaded about how to trade options i stumbled across Bill Stacy site OneDayWealth and remember hearing about him through 21st century(which he now has no association with since they sold out and became a marketing superhighway) and planet wealth. Late one night about 11.30 i decided to send Bill of an email to ask if i could arrange a time to have a chat with him, straight away i got an email back with his home phone number saying give him a call now. So I called him and we talked for nearly two hours about his course and life in general, I found him to be a very down to earth and sincere person.

Over the next few days i talked with my family and decided to do his course, I looked through his training options and decided if i was going to do this i wanted the best training possible to give me the best chance at succeeding, so i decided to do his 3 days personal training at 10k where he basically stays at the closest hotel to you for 3-5 days and trains you in his method. I called Bill up and after a discussing my options and my background he told me i had enough background in T.A. analysis that to buy his Put Spread dvd's and wait for his Day Trading dvd's to come out which he would include for free. At the time the Put Spread dvd's were only $1,700. Now he's taking a $8,300 loss to save me money to add to my trading bank, Now can any of you tell me of any other course around that talks you out of buying their most expensive course.... it's alright i think i know the answer..

I have now learn't Bill's method of Day Trading Options and am currently live paper trading his method Mon-Fri from 9am-4pm over the last 2 weeks of using his very simple method of trading breakouts off new highs or lows i have turned an 18k trading bank into 34k, not all trades have been winners but i get out of trades at my predetermined stoploss point or when i have either hit my 10% profit point or the rules show no need to exit and let my profit run untill my clear exit signal shows up. The private traders chatline that he runs is a godsend, being able to chat to other people who have done the course and be talking and watching the same stocks and not trading alone is worth the cost of the course in itself.

I will continue to paper trade untill i am confident enough that his system works, but it is so simple that it will not be far off. 

Over the last 5 months of being a member of OneDayWealth member i have found Bill Stacy to be a very down to earth and sincere person. He has a real passion for helping people achieve financial freedom and for the first time in a very long time i can actually see my future looking positive. Bill is a person of integrity and someone i am proud to be associated with.

Julian


----------



## doctorj

OneDayWealth said:


> You know what?
> 
> I'm done with you guys. What a bunch of losers. Jackson you are a moron. I'm trying to help people here and all you can do is critisize and complain like a bunch of bitter old women. You wouldn't know a genuine opportunity if it came and smashed you in the face!






OneDayWealth said:


> Paul, grow a brain.



I think this thread has run its course.  Thread closed.


----------



## Vicki

OneDayWealth said:


> You know what?
> 
> I'm done with you guys. What a bunch of losers. Jackson you are a moron. I'm trying to help people here and all you can do is critisize and complain like a bunch of bitter old women. You wouldn't know a genuine opportunity if it came and smashed you in the face!




This's the attitude we recieved years ago!
& you guys saw it for yourselves!

Hi Guys,
My Husband and I being  former 'victims' of planet wealth & Andrew Dimitri & Bill Stacey's "spruiking"  "Retire tommorrow using our one size fits all strategy" , & we'll even help you mortgage your house/s to help facilitate this ,etc.. type of hype...Well, I just have throw my 'hat' in the ring.

I have been looking for a place to be heard unbiastly, & possibly reach-out to fellow victims or prospective 'newbies' at risk of losing their shirts also.

Fianally, I came across a google search revealing Bill Stacy's attempt at spreading his "false utopia" on your forum.
Although I'm approx. a year late in adding my two bob's worth [better late than never],  I have to note I was a little bemused & found It refreshing to see your forum members slice right through his B.S. spin, probably saving some unsuspecting souls [newbs] from financial ruin.

My story?
Well I was one of many 'suckers' effectively stolen away from 21st century academy, to be conjoled into Andrew & Bill's first experiment at trying their hand at running their own wealth education site in 2004, [PLANET WEALTH]

  where they spruiked the "Dimitri stategy"  Which was really just the 'bull put credit spread'....Thats right, he put his own name on it, something he later flatly denied, when a few of us were seeking legal action.

He also denied writing an e-book describing what a viable 'retire now' strategy it was!
where they stated that the so called proffessionals were just PLAIN WRONG when they argued the big risks involved. [page 15]

When I offered to sit-down with respective reprsentatives & openly display & disscuss this material to refresh their memmories, the resounding answer was quote: "that's not going to happen!".....HMMMMM.?

Coming from people, fellow AUSSIES that said they didn't need to hide behind disclaimers & legal teams etc..Like some other shysters do!...Again HMMM.

It's like de-javu, when looking back in the early days of planet wealth, when the forum was FREE & almost anybody could give their unbiased opinion....

I look back & remember people not unlike yourselves, trying invane to warn the un-initiated, about the pitfalls of such a strategy!
People who were quickly chased-off, before the site became "paid-up" members only!

An environment which soon became one of vurtual idol-worship! [god sindrome] "I'm right, because I am" attitude!

we were "Harvested" suckers, who seemed to lose their right to objective debate, & soon the ability to privately communicate via e-mail or personal messages on the forum. [disabled]

A seemingly cultish environment, whereby any fair-minded objective discussion about risk was met with a hostile interjection by Andrew, which was almost always followed up with a commical & subject changing, long-winded, post by Bill! [the clown!]  'adjective'

How do I know this?..
Becuase I was one of the few who dared defy their spin routine, & start threads, one of which was centered on our true risks & planet wealths' "money pie" money managment philosophy!...Risking half of your bank on various put spreads at any one time!...

How much you risk all-up is up to you they said???...But at the same time encouraging & assisting people to mortgage their homes, where 50 to 100k was the usual, & appeared to set the pace! [something bill has openly addmitted after he left].

Well, the above mentioned thread, which quickly skated out of their control, went approx. 60 posts & was viewed around 3500 times in 6 weeks!!!
Not bad, considering the next 'most viewed' thread had 900 views over 1 year!

It wasn't long before people owned-up & faced-up to the public humiliation of their true losses [me included, two houses & approx. & 150,000 in cash!]
One by one, they would 'take a bow' & sign-off for good!

A month later, planet wealth shut down [december 2007] then re-invented itself,[early 2008] susposedly taking on-board the 'constructive' critisism, before spruiking more conservative strategies, also outlining the risk profiles of the more speculative strategies.
 Something my solictor & myself politeley suggested!
Something Andrew & Bill would admonish me for saying, but went ahead & did it anyway!!!  

I don't know a great deal about the "new" planet wealth, but one last heated debate between myself & Andrew Dimitri [64 minutes according to him] revealed all but one person had not been with him for more than a year, at that time [early 2008].

  A seemingly typical M.O. for these so-called wealth educators, who appear to have no end of newbies being drawn into their spin advertising , never to be heard from again!

This one on one debate finally came about after Andrew & I think, Bill had me barred from the site..
All because I went about informing a complete newb' about the potential perils of their "volitility advantage" strategy, by showing him a recent post by a poor soul who had just blown 80k in one month!..
Using I believe, Andrew's American affiliate/trader who is also involved with OPTIONETICS.
Boy, Did Andrew get stuck into me for that!

So much for objectivety! & open unbiast disscussion?

My main point, [apart from getting some issues of my chest] is to EMPHASIZE the importance, of an open forum, where, any BULL@#$T will be exposed for what it is!
And hopefully save the inexperienced from repeating my/our mistakes!

Kind regards,
             Vicki 

p.s. why haven't I spoken-out ealier?...my solicitor advised against going to the media [today tonight etc.]
For risk of being mis-quoted & pos. facing a liable defamation suit...JEEZ.


p.p.s.If there are any former planet wealth subscribers out there [2004-2007] please feel free to contact me & disscuss our experiences.


----------



## wayneL

Vicki said:


> Although I'm approx. a year late...




Your thread necromance is gladly pardoned for honestly sharing your experiences.

Thanks Vicki.


----------



## J&M

with OPTIONETICS.


I went to one of those talks in Bris a few years back with a mate who had limited share trading 
Very very slick Presentation about hedge funds and how you could not possibly loose with There help with phone calls and training 
I do recall they were from the USA with lots of white boards charts and markers very very impressive till it came to the HIT !!!
you had to buy a computer program for about $10,000 but tonight for you its only $7,500 But as we have a very good crowd is only $5000 
if you buy now and tonight. People were lined up to buy this fail safe program 
Me I had a coffee and walked out

as the man said :castles made of sand"


----------



## OneDayWealth

Wow, you certainly do have a vivid imagination but I'm afraid a shocking memory Vicki. 

99% of people who have ever had anything to do with me will tell you that I only ever try/tried to help and educate people who asked me to and my support is impecable. I am always there for all my clients and members unlike anyone else in the financial education industry. 

In fact you yourself were one of those people and I helped you many many times. You asked and I gave and gave and gave but how many do you think listened? It doesn't look like my message got through to you at all which is a shame and the results were predictable.

If you remember clearly, I was the one who was encouraging you all to do your own trades and learn and practise as much as possible before risking money. I even paid out $4,000 of my own money as a reward to anyone who could complete a simple paper trading exercise because I could see that people were taking the easy way out and giving ALL their money to someone else to trade on their behalf. That was never the intention and anyone with a brain will only ever place money on a high risk strategy that they could afford to lose anyway. If you are complaining that you lost too much and it's all my (or someone else's) fault then why oh why did you risk so much money if you could NOT afford to lose it? That's irresponsible and 100% your fault whether you like it or not. 

I'm sorry that you lost money but I'm glad you made some as well which I know you did. The fact that you let your losses keep running and running without doing anything at all about it to the extreme (and quite horrifying) extent where you would lose two houses and $150,000 is stunning and I'm not really sure what to say apart "how could you let that happen?". *Who was responsible for making your financial decisions? Who gave the measured authority to risk all that money?* Whoever it was made some very big mistakes. 

I am confident that true history will show that I did my _best _to try to educate all my members but the fact is that many wanted the easy way out. No study, no personal education or experience even attempted, and this acidic attitude that you are displaying right now is what got you into trouble - not a put spread. 

Why did you not do your own trading? I was there almost every day answering and begging people to paper trade more and more (was I not?) but no, members wanted to do it less and less. If "being there" to support your people is what makes a forum seem "cultish" to you then I feel very sad for your inability to understand what real support looked like. That's what I was SUPPOSED to be doing! I can't speak for Andrew's responses but I always found them to be fair and very accurate. 

*I stand by every word I say and challenge you to provide one word of proof that I ever did anything wrong to you or anyone.* I was (and still am) someone who is excited about offering possible paths to a better life through financial enrichment. I'm a capitalist not a communist and damn proud of it. I will always fight to present people with choices to help them make more money if that's what they are looking for...and let's face it...blaming someone else for trading losses that you had full control off is pretty childish. 

If you are going to come onto a public forum and slander me in front of the world at least have the decency to tell the truth and take responsibility for your actions because obviously it was you who approached us for our information so I'm not sure how we or anyone could "harvest" you. We offer a product and you either buy it or your don't. If you do buy it you either follow the advice offered or your don't but in all cases you must accept responsibility for your own actions and grow up enough to realise that you made all your own mistakes. No one made them for you. If you are not suited to trading then how could we know that? If you were not capable of doing homework or following simple instructions, how are we supposed to know that? 

We presume that we are dealing with grown adults who are capable of making their own decisions and accepting responsibility for them as well. No one forced you to do anything and for you to suggest that anyone did really says a little more about you than I think you realise. I'm always sorry when someone loses money but every good trader will have wins and losses all the time (especially when you chose to include attitudinal risk factors) if you don't know when to stop losing or don't care to learn the skill or craft to your maximum capacity then you really only have yourself to blame. 

*Also, I should add that a LOT of your seething anger should not even be directed at me as I was only (proudly) involved with Planet Wealth and Andrew Dimitri until December 2006*. I then sold my shares and did my own thing. But really, no one put a gun to your head Vicki, No one forced you to risk even one cent. You asked us "_how do you guys do what you do_?" and we told you! The rest was up to you. 

Why you are now choosing to blame all your investing decisions and losses on me is confusing, stunning, rude, inaccurate and untrue and therefore slanderous. You are clearly doing it so you can pass the blame for your losses onto someone else (in this case me). I hope people can see the real story here which is...

*Educate yourself, by all means pay for it if you have to but as a grown adult you MUST take responsibility for all your risks. *


----------



## prawn_86

I suggest all parties in this thread take a look at the 'Commercial Securities' thread also in order to see what possible outcomes there are for this thread...

Post wisely as we will not remove posts that do not break the site rules/T&C


----------



## wayneL

Bill,

Perhaps you can enlighten the forum as to what your "opportunity" entails. You don't have to get too specific, just what its all about and how someone like Vicki would have done better if she "listened".


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill,
> 
> Perhaps you can enlighten the forum as to what your "opportunity" entails. You don't have to get too specific, just what its all about and how someone like Vicki would have done better if she "listened".




At the time (2005-2006), I was involved in sharing with people who asked how Andrew Dimitri managed his Put Spread strategy. The main issue I saw was that no one did the paper trading exercises I laid out and prepared for all members. Andrew then started a "follow our trades" service (fully ASIC approved) and people just put all their money into that. The problem with that was that not everyone was at Andrew's risk tolerance. However the service was offered with many cautions to make sure you had the right amount of available capital. 

My job (as I saw it) was to encourage people to learn the skill for themselves. I made software (a fancy spreadsheet) to help people monitor their trades and exit when the losses grew too large or uncomfortable. In fact I was the only guy strongly advising that people close their trades early and not leave them open for weeks on end. Most people ignored that and fell either in the "we'll let Andrew trade like himself for us" or the "she'll come back" camps. 

That's why I offered thousands of my own money to get people to stop and think about what they were doing and to sit and run through my paper trading exercises. 4 people responded to the competition. 4. 

I bet I could analyse every single trade that hurt Vicki and compare it against what I told her and many others to do (learn to manage her losses and trading herself) and I'm sure that if she had taken my suggestions and done her own homework and trading she would not be in this position now. 

The only moral of this story is "If you pay for education - use it!" 

If you are asking what I am doing now I will also answer that but I'm sure this is not the time and place for me to promote myself. I only want to answer these ludicrous and baseless allegations.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> The only moral of this story is "If you pay for education - use it!"




What if the original education is sub-par?


----------



## wayneL

Thanks Bill.

_________________

At this point I ask that affiliates and trolls etc refrain from posting so we can keep this on track.... also pay heed to Prawn's wise council. Touchy legal territory here so all claims need to be able to substantiated if necessary.

Serve returned, ball in your court Vicki.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> What if the original education is sub-par?




Good question. I suppose no education is ever totally complete. I tried to handle gaps in the education on a one by one basis because different people get confused on different things. That was my thing - to be there and available and responsive to questions. 

The strategic premise was simple. Sell put spreads on rising stock. That requires interpretation from the trader so it would never be perfect (however it was always manageable). But this whole "educators are evil" vibe is silly and childish. I've known many educators in the last 6 years and I honestly believe that they all believe they are doing their best to provide all the information people need to get the results desired. I myself have bought dozens of thousands of dollars worth of courses and they have all helped but none ever had the answer to all trading questions so you build an education by applying your knowledge and exiting when you get it wrong.

I've never met one financial educator that intentionally set out to mislead or harm anyone. That's why threads like this irritate me. They do so much unnecessary harm to good people trying to help good people make good money. People are told to expect losses when they begin (doesn't every ebook or course start off by reminding people to be very careful?).


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> ...but I've known many educators in the last 6 years and I honestly believe that they all believe they are doing their best to provide all the information people need to get the results desired.




Oh Bill, I can't believe you believe that.

Let's cut through the cr@p here. The prime motivation of any educator is to make a profit from selling courses/mentorship. Otherwise why not do it for free via a blog etc. Plenty do that and it is my observation that the quality of education via free resources such as Adam Warner's and Bill Luby's is generally a quantum leap higher than heavily marketed courses costing $000s.

There are some expensive courses that  contain quality education, but IME these are a small minority, e.g. Cottle.

We all know the vast majority of vendors are pedalling rubbish and enriching themselves at the expense of naive punters.




> I've never met one that intentionally set out to mislead or harm anyone.




I can think of several straight off the top of my head eg one pedalling a particularly irritating misnomer for covered calls.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Oh Bill, I can't believe you believe that.
> 
> Let's cut through the cr@p here. The prime motivation of any educator is to make a profit from selling courses/mentorship. Otherwise why not do it for free via a blog etc. Plenty do that and it is my observation that the quality of education via free resources such as Adam Warner's and Bill Luby's is generally a quantum leap higher than heavily marketed courses costing $000s.
> 
> There are some expensive courses that  contain quality education, but IME these are a small minority, e.g. Cottle.
> 
> We all know the vast majority of vendors are pedalling rubbish and enriching themselves at the expense of naive punters.
> 
> I can think of several straight off the top of my head eg one pedalling a particularly irritating misnomer for covered calls.




Ok, fair call. There are probably a few out there who don't care as much as they should. I'll accept that. Not met any personally but you're probably right. The bad old days of the 80s and inflated Gold Coast apartment prices springs to mind. But stock market educators generally provide information and it's up to the individual to place that education in context. As for the misnomer, I know who you are talking about and he uses that term to help people get their heads around a previosuly difficult concept. I have no problem with analogies - I use them a lot.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> As for the misnomer, I know who you are talking about and he uses that term to help people get their heads around a previosuly difficult concept. I have no problem with analogies - I use them a lot.




Analogies are Ok so long as there is a reasonable parallel. The misnomer, and the claimed returns, are nowhere near accurate.

As far as getting people to get their head around difficult concepts, and we are talking options here, there is no substitute for a through grounding in the basics, namely understanding pricing via the Greeks.

Said educator (and others), as far as I know actively discourages this, or at best does not do anywhere near an adequate job.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Analogies are Ok so long as there is a reasonable parallel. The misnomer, and the claimed returns, are nowhere near accurate.
> 
> As far as getting people to get their head around difficult concepts, and we are talking options here, there is no substitute for a through grounding in the basics, namely understanding pricing via the Greeks.
> 
> Said educator (and others), as far as I know actively discourages this, or at best does not do anywhere near an adequate job.




I agree. There is a danger in over simplifying things financial (though it's a great way to start). While the benefits clearly need to be marketed the risks and warnings must be sincere and clear.


----------



## prawn_86

Personally i dont see how anyone can charge for education unless they can provide broker statements showing a track record better than a given index


----------



## mazzatelli

prawn_86 said:


> Personally i dont see how anyone can charge for education unless they can provide broker statements showing a track record better than a given index




Why would they even bother educating? It requires a lot of work to trade profitably.

Teaching a supposed profitable system to the masses, only reduces its likelihood of success in the future.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Personally i dont see how anyone can charge for education unless they can provide broker statements showing a track record better than a given index





But if we use that logic no sports coach would ever be able to coach an athlete without a gold Olympic medal. I personally know several people who are much better traders than me even though I taught them. Usually because they have great discipline. Today I lost a grand, yesterday I made 2.8k. No one's perfect - least of all me but I still think I can save a new trader a lot of money by warning them of many pitfalls and guiding them away from dangerous practices. I've seen many self educated traders suffer unnecessary losses much greater than the cost of my courses which would have saved them from making that mistake - guaranteed. 

Education costs money one way or another.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Why would they even bother educating? It requires a lot of work to trade profitably.




Why educate? It's a good business and highly requested. 



mazzatelli said:


> Teaching a supposed profitable system to the masses, only reduces its likelihood of success in the future.




No it doesn't. How? I don't understand.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> No it doesn't. How? I don't understand.




Do you see banks, HF's etc releasing details of their proprietary models to the public?


----------



## Vicki

Hi guys,
Well alrighty then.

Lets call upon anybody else involved with that forum around the time-frame specified.
Or perhaps, we could request some-how to get the original posts transfered here, for all to see?
We could even try to track-down the original planet wealth e-book, & disseminate it here also, again for all too see and pass opinion on?
I'm pretty shore I lost mine [soon after I lost my shirt I think], but It's possible Arnold Thomas & Becker still have a copy of mine on file?

If so, would it be o.k. to post it here?..or maybe just some excerps, 1 or 2 pages?
I'll look into it.

How was it possible to sustain such losses?

I think it was something to do with being advised it was ok to risk up to half of your bank at any one time.

Spreading trades across diff. sectors would almost ensure a constant safety net, as at least some trades would succeed. blah blah.
The rest? well they could just be 'rolled-out' etc...
I think usually doubling the initial trade size to recover any losses etc.[actually I think we needed closer to triple in reallity!]

Well we all found out the hard way, that all trades can go south in any given month, for at least a few months in a row...It all seems so simple now!

Forget about the hype of an 80% success ratio.
I now would prefer to look at risk/reward ratio.
Which I think at the time was 3-4 to 1...[i.e risk $3-4 to make $1]
Again, a little different to their e-book examples!

Who cares about success ratio, when on the the occaisions you do get it wrong, you go backwards much faster!
I wish they could have 'spruiked that'..But I geuss 80% success ratio sounds so much sexier!

So, yes given the above details, one can easily see that your bank could be devastated very quickly.

Which gave rise to some of us asking just what sort of bank Andrew was trading with, given the size of his trades.

I geuss, wanting to be somehow re-assured we were all doing it right?
I remember on one such occaission, you briskly chimed-in & told us that was a "matter for his own capitol preservation"...[none of our business?]
A lame 'Practice what I say, not what I preach' sorta comment.
Not very inspiring I can tell you!

Okey-dokey, we've all been actively encouraged & sometimes assisted in taking out a second mortgage, to participate, & we start getting those sort of run-around  flakey, don't ask the hard questions type attitude.
Pox. 

Perhaps Aaron, [I think that was his name] could come forward, & tell us about his 80k in a month loss due to the "volitility advantage" strategy?
More of a "disadvantage" in his book I would think!

Anyway I'll see if I can dig up a couple of pages from the above mentioned e-book...That's of course if it doesn't embarrass anybody into pos. legal action?

Good night all, speak soon,
                                   Vicki
p.s. planet wealth rocks


----------



## builder2818

Let me understand something here.......you spread out your entire bank (and some) on different stocks trading a bull put spread? If the market falls which it did in late 07, it wouldn't matter what stocks you were trading the spread over - they would all be losing trades.

Regardless if someone told you about their 80% success ratio, why would you put all that money on the line in the first place? If you are a student or customer to these "education" providers you are blind like everyone else - yes, the whiteboard examples never lose and no one ever thinks about their losses. It's only what they think they can get. Were you thinking you could put $150k into these trades and pick up $50k?

After taking such a heavy loss, the last thing you should be doing is chasing the market and doubling/tripling your next positions to try and recoup your losses.


----------



## the phantom

This reminds me of 18-25 y/os presenting small business marketing success presentations to over 40-70 y/os ... ready for retirement or mid-life crisis, starting a business.

The person in this thread, I don't care to mention his name, said he has trading records to prove his stuff, get an independent, whether a mod or someone this forum can trust to validate it with extreme caution and prejudice (I say the latter in a good way). 

Otherwise, it is just smooth talk or double-talk, boring ... and potentially misleading (aka how do you sleep at night ... if you don't off yourself, or you will be the loneliest person at the old people's home).

Again, I believe you said, you can show your trading success, so put up or shut up. Don't bother quoting me except for the last bit ... put up or shut up.


----------



## Vicki

Hi Builder2818,
The short answer is yes, you're a 100% correct.
We took the bait, hook line & sinker, like the gullable fools we were.

Which is why I would suggest that anybody feeling tempted into such situations, should perform a "reallity check" by bouncing the idea's off unbiased & more experienced people on forums like this.

So people like you can, as some tried before [before being silenced on p/w],
can explane in plain detail what a steaming pile of crap we were being fed.

Thanks,
          Vicki

p.s.Maybe some of his current students could share 'blow by blow' their trades &/or experiences day-trading options, updated on a regular basis.
For the benefit & discussion of all?


----------



## prawn_86

On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.

This has been done before and settled many arguements.


----------



## nunthewiser

prawn_86 said:


> On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.
> 
> This has been done before and settled many arguements.




It has also been shown in the past by various members how easy it is to knock up a dodgy one in a matter of minutes if one is creativly inclined.

cheers.

sorry to butt in to this intresting thread, just thought i,d point out this fact.


----------



## nulla nulla

prawn_86 said:


> Personally i dont see how anyone can charge for education unless they can provide broker statements showing a track record better than a given index






mazzatelli said:


> Why would they even bother educating? It requires a lot of work to trade profitably.
> 
> Teaching a supposed profitable system to the masses, only reduces its likelihood of success in the future.






Vicki said:


> p.s.Maybe some of his current students could share 'blow by blow' their trades &/or experiences day-trading options, updated on a regular basis.
> For the benefit & discussion of all?






prawn_86 said:


> On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.
> 
> This has been done before and settled many arguements.






nunthewiser said:


> It has also been shown in the past by various members how easy it is to knock up a dodgy one in a matter of minutes if one is creativly inclined.
> 
> cheers.
> 
> sorry to butt in to this intresting thread, just thought i,d point out this fact.




Mazatelli is right. Traders are competing against other traders. The moment a trader shares their secrets, then the number of people applying that successful strategy increases, reducing the returns of the strategy and diminishing its worth.


----------



## OneDayWealth

the phantom said:


> Again, I believe you said, you can show your trading success, so put up or shut up. Don't bother quoting me except for the last bit ... put up or shut up.




*I did, *I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed from this thread and I was banned from this forum so I was given no way to defend myself or my record. I have posted heaps of periods on my forum and it's still up there now if you would care to do some research.

To Vicky, Did you *EVER *take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not. 

Did you *ever *do any technical analysis for yourself? Did you *ever *place any of your own trades? Did you *EVER *consider yourself responsible for your own trades or did you just "follow" Andrew's trades without thinking? And if you decided to just follow someone else's trades without thinking did you stop to think that maybe Andrew had a large bank and he was trading in a certain style? Did you *ever *take responsibility for your own trading and future? 

Was I not *ALWAYS *telling people to make their OWN decisions? Was I not *always *telling you to close your trades when a reasonable amount of profit was available? I bet you just left all your trades to expire in order to extract every last cent like most greedy new traders. Did you *ever *study the strategy yourself? Did you *ever *do *any *paper trading (I'd like to see evidence of that if you did)? Did you even download my spread software and fill out your positions every day so *you *could know that you were in profit or loss and *make a decision?* 

If you had put in even a *little *effort you would have learnt how to trade yourself and made your own decisions and not have just sat there and watch all your money disappear. You have yourself to blame and no one else I'm afraid and the more you rant on and on in here the more evidence you are providing to us all. 

I *never *once suggested that people just sit and watch all their money disappear without lifting a finger to stop the losses. I *never *suggested that you read an ebook and never practice for yourself the skill. I *never *said to take *no *interest in your portfolio's performance and I certainly *never *said to leave your trades open without taking an interest in their progress. I also issued *many *warnings to people to not just roll over continuously. That would be insane and it seems like what you did. 

Vicki, I deny responsibility for one cent of your losses and I am calling you a lazy loser who is now crying and trying to find someone to blame (hey! YOU started it!). If you weren't so lazy you would taken all my advice and done your own trades and learnt how to monitor and close and your *greed *would not have run away with you. I say greed because *the only way you could EVER get yourself into this bitter mess was by refusing to take responsibility for your own investing and actions. Had you done what I told you to do you would still be trading today. * 

The FACTS are that you did not take it seriously and you lost your money just like everyone else who does not take the risks of stock market trading seriously and decided to take the "easy road" and just let someone else make all the decisions for you. I have always been the guy who was suggesting that all traders should learn how to trade by themselves so they can be responsible for their own profits and losses.

You could not possibly have any gripe with me because I was the only one out there (and here) who is trying to teach you something. If you choose to ignore all my warnings and lessons then you really have no right to complain and you certainly have no right to come on here and defame and slander me in front of the whole world. 

*Stop your little tantrum and take a long hard look at why you sat back and just watched and let all your money disappear.* You're obviously in a lot of trouble and I would not want that for anyone but it's making you say crazy things because you think I'm not going to catch you out but I did now that people have heard what I tried to do to protect you they might not be so taken by your infernal and unjustified attack on someone who has only ever tried to help and educate people. 

*You are attacking the wrong person!* Look in the mirror.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nulla nulla said:


> Mazatelli is right. Traders are competing against other traders. The moment a trader shares their secrets, then the number of people applying that successful strategy increases, reducing the returns of the strategy and diminishing its worth.




That's bunkum. No facts could ever support this view.


----------



## nulla nulla

OneDayWealth said:


> That's bunkum. No facts could ever support this view.




Maybe I should qualify this, limiting my perspective to "trading shares on the ASX", so as not to get into a debate with xperts that trade other markets and instuments.


----------



## nulla nulla

OneDayWealth said:


> *I did, *I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed from this thread and I was banned from this forum so I was given no way to defend myself or my record. I have posted heaps of periods on my forum and it's still up there now if you would care to do some research.
> 
> To Vicky, Did you *EVER *take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not.
> 
> Did you *ever *do any technical analysis for yourself? Did you *ever *place any of your own trades? Did you *EVER *consider yourself responsible for your own trades or did you just "follow" Andrew's trades without thinking? And if you decided to just follow someone else's trades without thinking did you stop to think that maybe Andrew had a large bank and he was trading in a certain style? Did you *ever *take responsibility for your own trading and future?
> 
> Was I not *ALWAYS *telling people to make their OWN decisions? Was I not *always *telling you to close your trades when a reasonable amount of profit was available? I bet you just left all your trades to expire in order to extract every last cent like most greedy new traders. Did you *ever *study the strategy yourself? Did you *ever *do *any *paper trading (I'd like to see evidence of that if you did)? Did you even download my spread software and fill out your positions every day so *you *could know that you were in profit or loss and *make a decision?*
> 
> If you had put in even a *little *effort you would have learnt how to trade yourself and made your own decisions and not have just sat there and watch all your money disappear. You have yourself to blame and no one else I'm afraid and the more you rant on and on in here the more evidence you are providing to us all.
> 
> I *never *once suggested that people just sit and watch all their money disappear without lifting a finger to stop the losses. I *never *suggested that you read an ebook and never practice for yourself the skill. I *never *said to take *no *interest in your portfolio's performance and I certainly *never *said to leave your trades open without taking an interest in their progress. I also issued *many *warnings to people to not just roll over continuously. That would be insane and it seems like what you did.
> 
> Vicki, I deny responsibility for one cent of your losses and I am calling you a lazy loser who is now crying and trying to find someone to blame (hey! YOU started it!). If you weren't so lazy you would taken all my advice and done your own trades and learnt how to monitor and close and your *greed *would not have run away with you. I say greed because *the only way you could EVER get yourself into this bitter mess was by refusing to take responsibility for your own investing and actions. Had you done what I told you to do you would still be trading today. *
> 
> The FACTS are that you did not take it seriously and you lost your money just like everyone else who does not take the risks of stock market trading seriously and decided to take the "easy road" and just let someone else make all the decisions for you. I have always been the guy who was suggesting that all traders should learn how to trade by themselves so they can be responsible for their own profits and losses.
> 
> You could not possibly have any gripe with me because I was the only one out there (and here) who is trying to teach you something. If you choose to ignore all my warnings and lessons then you really have no right to complain and you certainly have no right to come on here and defame and slander me in front of the whole world.
> 
> *Stop your little tantrum and take a long hard look at why you sat back and just watched and let all your money disappear.* You're obviously in a lot of trouble and I would not want that for anyone but it's making you say crazy things because you think I'm not going to catch you out but I did now that people have heard what I tried to do to protect you they might not be so taken by your infernal and unjustified attack on someone who has only ever tried to help and educate people.
> 
> *You are attacking the wrong person!* Look in the mirror.



After reading this outburst (and your earlier posts) I find it hilarious that you had the temerity to label my earlier post as bunkum.


----------



## Vicki

> I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed from this thread and I was banned from this forum so I was given no way to defend myself or my record. I have posted heaps of periods on my forum and it's still up there now if you would care to do some research.




You were banned? When, We are talking now aren't we?





> To Vicky, Did you *EVER *take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not.




A:Yes I did close some early, but as you well know some premiums were so lean [20% of the spread] that after 'buying back' your spread & allowing brokerage etc. it sometimes became a pointless exercise.
Unless I was a couple of days from expiry with an ATM spread, I didn't bother.
Also, as usual you leave out stuff like, a lot of the time the spreads were deep ITM early in the piece.





> Did you stop to think that maybe Andrew had a large bank and he was trading in a certain style?




A:Yes, a certain style,It was called the "DIMITRI STRATEGY" Using the "MONEY PIE" money managment 'STYLE'
Whereby, it was considered acceptable to risk initially up too 50% of your bank.
Whether you have $1000,000 or $100,000, percentage risks are the same, so if his or our bank balance hits ZERO, guess what? it's still ZERO!!
No amount of spin will change that...Unless you work for the Federal Reserve?

You were once a 'share holder' in Planet Wealth & an avid advocate for their/your original e-book.
Do you still have a copy?..If so, could you share it with us?..Just the 'selling insurance' part will do.





> If you choose to ignore all my warnings and lessons then you really have no right to complain and you certainly have no right to come on here and defame and slander me in front of the whole world.




Yeah, I think you posted earlier, something like "Only a person with half a brain would be stupid enough to ever risk their money on such a "RISKY stategy"

Wish you & him could've just saved us all the trouble, and stated that at the beginning....Jeez.
But then I geuss we would've just stayed with Jamie Mac.




> Did you *ever *place any of your own trades? Did you *EVER *consider yourself responsible for your own trades




A:Yes, originally I was with 21st century academy doing covered calls, & plodding away o.k. Before a couple of spin-doctors came on our forum & spruiked the "DIMITRI STRATEGY"
There's a sucker born every minute I geuss? [only myself to blame yeh]




> I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed




Well bill, your moment to shine has finally arrived.
As I don't know much about your current training with regard to day-trading options.
Perhaps this's an invaluable opportunity to show the world the effectiveness of your current stategy, & maybe share with us your thoughts on some of your potential trades?

Maybe, just as an exercise, we could all paper-trade along with you, using a hypothetical bank of 20K.
Then when we're seeing 2-5K a week average, you'll certainly have the ear of a much greater audiance!


How 'bout it guys?..I'm in!



Kind regards,
                 Vicki

p.s. Thankfully my brother & myself  inherited 105 acres in byron bay last year.
We both still trade, infrequently, [modest amounts] but only do'n covered calls...what I was originally doing.


----------



## builder2818

If you're going to keep doing covered calls, maybe you should have a read of this on Wayne's blog: 

http://sigmaoptions.blogspot.com/2006/12/reasons-to-not-chase-big-cc-premium.html 

There a few other posts on there also. You might end up losing that 105 acres, then who are you going to blame?


----------



## nunthewiser

Vicki said:


> Well bill, your moment to shine has finally arrived.
> As I don't know much about your current training with regard to day-trading options.
> Perhaps this's an invaluable opportunity to show the world the effectiveness of your current stategy, & maybe share with us your thoughts on some of your potential trades?
> 
> Maybe, just as an exercise, we could all paper-trade along with you, using a hypothetical bank of 20K.
> Then when we're seeing 2-5K a week average, you'll certainly have the ear of a much greater audiance!
> 
> 
> How 'bout it guys?..I'm in!
> 
> 
> 
> .




Sounds fair to me actually.

But we all know there will be a reason it cant happen


----------



## Sean K

nunthewiser said:


> Sounds fair to me actually.
> 
> But we all know there will be a reason it cant happen



A short term sample is probably not appropriate. 

Even short term systems can have a bad short term period probably. 

Are there some disclaimers like 'over 12 months' or the like to allow for this?

Or, is it a guaranteed $X over any month type thing?

If so, what an amazing opportunity to gain further business by proving it live here?


----------



## Vicki

> If you're going to keep doing covered calls, maybe you should have a read of this on Wayne's blog:
> 
> http://sigmaoptions.blogspot.com/200...c-premium.html




Thanks builder2818,
I had a quick look at his site, some very important issues.
Especially with the 'looming' financial meltdown in the American & European markets.
It's why I'm prety much sitting on the side-lines for now.



> A short term sample is probably not appropriate.
> 
> Even short term systems can have a bad short term period probably.
> 
> Are there some disclaimers like 'over 12 months' or the like to allow for this?
> 
> Or, is it a guaranteed $X over any month type thing?
> 
> If so, what an amazing opportunity to gain further business by proving it live here?




Well said kennas, It indeed would be an amazing opportunity.
I look forward to some encouraging results/examples.

Regards,
           Vicki


----------



## wayneL

If anyone wants to look at my bull put spread vids, they're free.... OK OK I'll accept donations of beer. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMZjeS9LKb8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2BBy2Xl8z8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjyKnJy-Lk4


----------



## tech/a

I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defense.
Its simply credibility killing.

Once you/I/us/everyone understands "How" to Fish fishing is easy with 1000s of "Fish" models you can develop yourself.
You'll also know how to evaluate your fishing and keep your self in the ocean.

There is massive $$s to be made by Great educators and Slick educators.

I remember going to a Guppy Seminar 15 yrs ago at $150/ head and it was booked out 3 nights running 200 at each sitting + his books + Newsletter.
With say $10K costs and $80K profit is a good earn even 15 yrs ago!
Could have bought a House for that then! Guppy is a proven professional educator.

Its a great gig and if you can get a paying audience why wouldn't you.

The biggest question people need to answer isn't "how do I make money trading"

*Its How do I determine "Slick" and "Professional"*

Personally I haven't read a great deal of Professional from "The Professional" in this thread.


----------



## Vicki

> I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defense.
> Its simply credibility killing.




He's going to redeem his street cred' by sharing with us some recent &/or potential option day-trades, that would be indicative of his estimated weekly return of around 2-5K per/week I think?

I think prawn mentioned earlier that he was o.k. with Bill showing his broker statements etc. see below.



> On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.




I'm honestly looking forward to learning a bit about retiring & day-trading options, within the safety of this forum.

Cheers,
          Vicki


----------



## Julia

tech/a said:


> I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defense.
> Its simply credibility killing.



Exactly.  Says it all, really.
Can you for one millisecond imagine, e.g. Nick Radge or Alan Hull getting into this sort of slanging match?  Of course not.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Ok, so if I reply with a decent response I'm long winded? 

Non professional? What do you want from me? I offer education. What you do with it is up to you and please please please don't forget...*YOU ASKED US TO SHOW YOU! EVERY STEP YOU TOOK WAS YOUR OWN.*

I stand by every thing I did and said and wrote over the last 6 years. I sleep very well and I regularly publish my results on my forum for people to see. 

I was banned from replying until I saw your response so I asked for permission to defend myself against your outrageous lies and they granted me that opportunity. 

You lost money because you made mistakes, not because of anything I "did" to you or Andrew "did" to you or the world "did" to you and now I see that you expecting me to give you my course for free? Lol...that says it all for me.

I'm just an educator. I show you what I do. You can do with that what you want but please don't blame me for something you were 100% in control of and could have 100% avoided. The fact is you were too lazy to do your own analysis and even in the end your own trading. You gave all your money to someone else to trade for you based on their risk profile and their bank and you lost money and now you are attacking me and calling it my fault.

That's just sad and some of the other comments made above are so silly that they aren't even worth responding to. Like I said, I did offer all my statements, uploaded them and linked them to this thread but it was removed by the moderators so it looks like I didn't offer any results which I did. 

It looks like no matter what I say though you are still angry enough with yourself to twist it around so it's always my fault and never your fault. Are you going to accept responsibility for any of your trades? Trading is trading. It can go either way for everyone. YOU have to decide when to get in. YOU have to decide when to get out. How are ANY of the decisions you made my fault? Did I put a gun to your head? 

And again I have to point out I was the advocate for learning. I was the one telling you all to do paper trading and back testing over the last few years at least so you can get a feel for how fast a stock can go up or down. Did you do any of my paper trading exercises? Did you monitor your positions every day like I was telling everyone and like every sensible intelligent trader would do? Did you apply any analysis to your entries or exits? 

No. You gave all your money to Andrew and told him "do what you like". When you did that Andrew presumed that 100% of your bank was risk money. Where you not trading with money you could afford to lose? Even as educators we can only say what we know to be true. Making us out to be the "bad educators" only makes you look more foolish. 

And as far as me being "professional" is concerned, I don't give a toss what you or anyone thinks to be quite frank. What I do care about is lies being told about me and believed, blame being pushed onto me when I had NOTHING to do with your losses. Where any of your losses my fault? Did you lose even 1c from anything I told you to do? Did you do any paper trading? Did you do my exercises? Did you heed my advice? Did you use my monitoring software? NO. The fault still lies squarely on your shoulders Vicki. I'm sad that you just sat and let all those hundreds of thousands of dollars march out the door without doing anything to stop it. 

You should be embarrassed (as you clearly are) but DON'T take it out on me or your neighbour or you Priest or your friends. It was your fault that you lost more money than you can afford to lose. It was your fault that you didn't study or head my advice and now I'm paying for your mistakes with an erosion of my reputation which has always been one of wanting to help and offering up my time to help others. 

That's who Bill Stacy is and I challenge anyone to PROVE otherwise. History shows the support I gave to everyone. My forums are FULL or proof of this. I made money from selling books and support. How your losses are my fault is beyond me. *Stop blaming others for your stupidity and laziness.*


----------



## mazzatelli

You're explanation of options makes me cringe.

Judging from your free previews, you're comparing risk:reward between limited and unlimited risk positions. Of course the unlimited risk position will always sound worse in this context.

As for quoting returns on margin ...


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> You're explanation of options makes me cringe.
> 
> Judging from your free previews, you're comparing risk:reward between limited and unlimited risk positions. Of course the unlimited risk position will always sound worse in this context.
> 
> As for quoting returns on margin ...




I never quote returns on margin because I have never used margin.  

My explanation of options? lol What explanation are you referring to and what part exactly makes you cringe? I explain options as fully and correctly as I know (or need to know) and I've been trading them for 6 years...so does the asx in their booklet which I advise everyone to read. 

I'm not sure what your middle paragraph is trying to say. I trade straight options (these days) and sold Put Spreads (those days). None of that (as you no doubt already know) requires margin.


----------



## OneDayWealth

> I'm honestly looking forward to learning a bit about retiring & day-trading options, within the safety of this forum.




Good luck with that. The risks with day trading options are much higher so *I suggest you don't.* If you can't handle a simple Put Spread, *day trading options will eat you alive*, especially if you don't paper trade or do what your instructors tell you to. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has taken the time to detail and outline exactly my layouts and procedures for day trading options. No one else (that I have been able to find) has even bothered to attempt it. If you are going to try to figure it out yourself get ready for some major pain.


----------



## mazzatelli

Bull put spreads don't require margin? Are you sure?
In your video you quote a hypothetical stock with -19.50/+18.50 bull put spread.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Bull put spreads don't require margin? Are you sure?
> In your video you quote a hypothetical stock with -19.50/+18.50 bull put spread.




I have two margin loans, one personal and one for my MQG account. Never used one - ever. I have never borrowed against any stock (I presume that's what you mean by margin?) because I would never buy stock/shares. 

Put spreads are easy. You sell a put and receive a cash premium, you take some of that cash premium and buy some insurance at a lower strike and keep the change. As the puts reduce in value (by time deterioration or a rise in the share/stock price) you can give back some of your kept premium to close your position keeping what's left. No margin is required. Not with this form of Put Spreads anyway. Unless there is another form of Put Spreads that I am unaware of it can all be done with straight cash.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> No margin is required. Not with this form of Put Spreads anyway. Unless there is another form of Put Spreads that I am unaware of it can all be done with straight cash.




I am not referring to a margin loan. 
It's standard practice for brokers to take the value of the difference between strike prices of the short vertical - in the above example $1,000 in collateral/margin.

What special broker are you using?


----------



## OneDayWealth

tech/a said:


> I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defence.
> Its simply credibility killing.
> 
> ...
> 
> Personally I haven't read a great deal of Professional from "The Professional" in this thread.




That's because I'm not a professional. I wasn't aware that defence had to be a certain length. If I addressed all the lies in this thread it would be ten times longer. 

I've never made myself out to be anything other than I am. I'm just a **** kicker labourer with no real skills (apart from welding and IT). I had over 60 jobs in my life until I found trading. Trading made me much more money than a job ever did or could so I just did that. 

At one of the seminars I networked and talked with Andrew. We ended up partnering because he had the trading method and I had the IT skills. I also was pretty good at using his method so I stepped in occasionally to help the newbies get their head around it. I had so much material that I decided to run a few seminars which were recorded and are a basic guide to understanding put spreads. 

From there I started day trading options with great success but never wanted to teach it to anyone because I thought I was just a freak with a high tolerance for risk. It ends up that others wanted to know how I did it so I made some videos and method notes and started sharing it with others the best I could given that I'm a high school drop out with no oratory or professional education skills. 

I've never made myself out to be anything other than a guy showing people (who ask!) what I do and how I do it. I'm just a guy telling people what I do and charging what it's worth. Paying thousands for a course that's going to make you thousands a week is a no brainer - people do it all the time when they buy a business (pay according to expected results). The only question that needs answering is "do you have the money to risk?", "are you willing to put in the effort to learn?" and "is this really for me?" and of course "will the course deliver on it's promise (inferred or otherwise)?".

I'm confident that my courses are good value and I offer the best support in the business but these days (to be honest) I'm looking more toward getting income from the internet because the returns are the same but the risk and (cash) investment is almost zero. I'm on here defending old news.


----------



## Vicki

> That's just sad and some of the other comments made above are so silly that they aren't even worth responding to. Like I said, I did offer all my statements, uploaded them and linked them to this thread but it was removed by the moderators so it looks like I didn't offer any results which I did.




I think you've been given the o.k. to share your trades on this forum.
A golden oppertunity to show us how you make 2-5k p/w from 20k.

Maybe some recent trades, perhaps from last week, & also maybe some possible trades your looking at, for maybe this week?




> I said everything I write on my website is true and if you have a problem with that then say so and challenge me on it. I will stand to any scrutiny because all I'm doing is showing people my method of trading and charging them less than many will make in a single week of using my method. Do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Do you have anything else constructive to add?




As I said above, now's the time to show us an example of how it's done.



> I'm happy for someone who considers themselves the voice of this forum to contact me directly at the phone numbers listed previously for a private chat and explanation of my methods and a tour of my strategy and the site. I've always got time for curious new investors and inquisitive experienced traders alike.
> 
> If you think I have gained free publicity I am willing to make a chunky donation to your favourite charity to compensate. Let's see if some good can come from this warm debate.




Sounds constructive, maybe you could put aside 20k into a seperate trading acc. for the Moderator or us to observe, & when you've doubled that amount,
you could donate half to the Royal childrens Hospital or similar?

That would be some great P.R. for you & your web-site. 


Kind regards,
                 Vicki


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> I am not referring to a margin loan.
> It's standard practice for brokers to take the value of the difference between strike prices of the short vertical - in the above example $1,000 in collateral/margin.
> 
> What special broker are you using?




No special broker. I used to use etrade until they started asking for twice the risk. 

Yes, in your example the cash you will need is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. But I use my own cash. Never borrowed. 

So, yes, you do need something to risk (or else why would you get paid?) but I always use pure cash.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> I think you've been given the o.k. to share your trades on this forum.
> A golden oppertunity to show us how you make 2-5k p/w from 20k.
> 
> Maybe some recent trades, perhaps from last week, & also maybe some possible trades your looking at, for maybe this week?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said above, now's the time to show us an example of how it's done.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds constructive, maybe you could put aside 20k into a separate trading acc. for the Moderator or us to observe, & when you've doubled that amount,
> you could donate half to the Royal childrens Hospital or similar?
> 
> That would be some great P.R. for you & your web-site.
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Vicki





Good to see you have calmed down a bit. 

I give to charity all the time. I have proof in a thread on my forum specifically for it. It's in the free section. Also on my forum you will find heaps of real  trading examples for you to look at including several warts and all reports of longer trading periods but I must warn you. I make more than most people so please don't expect to achieve my results. 2-5k is very easy with 20k. Most traders on here if they applied what they know about technical analysis to my day trading method they would make much more than 2-5k and will never hold anything over night (one of the best parts of day trading). 

Over the years I've noticed that most people lose money from holding an option position overnight. Nearly all the option trader corpses can be found in a heap in the morning after they wake to find they have lost much more than they wanted to. That's why I developed the day trading method. I saw too many people dying on overnight trades. 

Regarding my trades. I rarely trade on a regular basis. I only trade when I need money. I never look forward (on a daily basis) and pay no attention to any news or do any fundamental analysis. I trade what's happening at the time using purely technical signals. I did trade last week but only twice (Wednesday and Friday). All up I lost $1,000 and made $2,800 so I only made $1,800 but then again I was only using $12,000. Still, that's 15% so if I was using a full $20,000 bank that would have been $3,000. 

If a reasonable person from here (perhaps one of the moderators) would like to call me and see how I cope with heavy cross examination I would gladly speak for hours explaining in full the pros and cons of day trading as well as the pros and cons of going to work as a depressed slave. My only goal has ever been to help people escape their jobs. I've never been a "millionaireism" kind of guy. I just want to help people make enough to leave their jobs and follow their hobbies and passions. I even wrote an essay on it called "Urban Wealth". 

All we (all of us) really need is enough money so we can live our lives in peace without having to go to a job we hate. If you love your job and are happy that's cool but I'm here to help those who are not and now this is turning into a commercial which is not my intention.


----------



## builder2818

OneDayWealth said:


> Yes, in your example the cash you will need is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. But I use my own cash. Never borrowed.
> 
> So, yes, you do need something to risk (or else why would you get paid?) but I always use pure cash.




That is what is known as *margin* - the difference between the strikes less the premium received.


----------



## OneDayWealth

builder2818 said:


> That is what is known as *margin* - the difference between the strikes less the premium received.




Yep, I know that. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I never borrow money in the normal "margin" sense.


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> No special broker. I used to use etrade until they started asking for twice the risk.
> 
> Yes, in your example the cash you will need is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. But I use my own cash. Never borrowed.
> 
> So, yes, you do need something to risk (or else why would you get paid?) but I always use pure cash.




Oh dear, Bill...

You don't seem to know the difference in terminology between a "margin loan" and "margin" required by the exchange which is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received.  Surely, as an options educator you really should at least understand the basic terminology. A bit strange after supposedly six years of trading.

And yet you deride Vicky for not being good at handling a "simple bull put spread"?  I think this statement alone shows a lot of ignorance on your part.

I'm not a pro either, but guessing I have a somewhat better understanding of options than you do.  Mazzatelli is a pro so your arguments with him are not only showing a fair whack of ignorance but are also quite entertaining...lol


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> Oh dear, Bill...
> 
> You don't seem to know the difference in terminology between a "margin loan" and "margin" required by the exchange which is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received.  Surely, as an options educator you really should at least understand the basic terminology. A bit strange after supposedly six years of trading.
> 
> And yet you deride Vicky for not being good at handling a "simple bull put spread"?  I think this statement alone shows a lot of ignorance on your part.
> 
> I'm not a pro either, but guessing I have a somewhat better understanding of options than you do.  Mazzatelli is a pro so your arguments with him are not only showing a fair whack of ignorance but are also quite entertaining...lol





Lol...read my comment above! Of course I know what margin is. I just thought the comment was about borrowing money which I have clarified so go and be amused somewhere else.


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> Yep, I know that. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I never borrow money in the normal "margin" sense.




Oh dear again... you didn't have to make it clear. It's all in the context.   "Margins" in the context of options has nothing to do with borrowing money in a "Margin Loan"... 

Context is required in many instances of the english langauge.  If you say I have just tied a bow, you don't then have to clarify that you are not talking about the bow of a boat or that you have just taken a bow to your audience...lol

Same with options.  Margin means options margin and you don't have to qualify that you don't mean margin loan...


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> Lol...read my comment above! Of course I know what margin is. I just thought the comment was about borrowing money which I have clarified so go and be amused somewhere else.




Why - the entertainment here is just fine...


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> Oh dear again... you didn't have to make it clear. It's all in the context.   "Margins" in the context of options has nothing to do with borrowing money in a "Margin Loan"...
> 
> Context is required in many instances of the english langauge.  If you say I have just tied a bow, you don't then have to clarify that you are not talking about the bow of a boat or that you have just taken a bow to your audience...lol
> 
> Same with options.  Margin means options margin and you don't have to qualify that you don't mean margin loan...




That depends who the audience is I guess.


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> That depends who the audience is I guess.




Yeah right.  I guess total newbies are easier to fool.  But why are you not teaching your trusting students the proper terminology?

And then you say handling a bull put is simple?  I don't usually swear, but this is bull something else...lol.  There is a level of complexity with any options position with multiple dynamics at work.  

Some time ago I heard of the doubling down strategy (when the bull put gets into trouble) and apparently came from some so called "teaching" guru.   This actually massively increases the original risk and  will only get the position out of trouble IF the market turns back up.  But if it keeps going down, then those significantly increased risks can be realised and do serious damage to the account (or "bank" as you call it).

Why not train people how to fly aeroplanes too?  A weekend should teach what the buttons do...lol


----------



## Vicki

> Regarding my trades. I rarely trade on a regular basis. I only trade when I need money. I never look forward (on a daily basis) and pay no attention to any news or do any fundamental analysis. I trade what's happening at the time using purely technical signals. I did trade last week but only twice (Wednesday and Friday). All up I lost $1,000 and made $2,800 so I only made $1,800 but then again I was only using $12,000. Still, that's 15% so if I was using a full $20,000 bank that would have been $3,000.




So you don't trade on a regular basis?

What are newbs supposed to do, to maintain an average of $2000-$5000 p/w,
using only their 20k?

Also, could you share with us the details of your two trades last week?


Vicki


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> Yeah right.  I guess total newbies are easier to fool.  But why are you not teaching your trusting students the proper terminology?
> 
> And then you say handling a bull put is simple?  I don't usually swear, but this is bull something else...lol.  There is a level of complexity with any options position with multiple dynamics at work.
> 
> Some time ago I heard of the doubling down strategy (when the bull put gets into trouble) and apparently came from some so called "teaching" guru.   This actually massively increases the original risk and  will only get the position out of trouble IF the market turns back up.  But if it keeps going down, then those significantly increased risks can be realised and do serious damage to the account (or "bank" as you call it).
> 
> Why not train people how to fly aeroplanes too?  A weekend should teach what the buttons do...lol




lol...I've never tried to fool anyone. I love newbies. I am their friend because I am the ONLY one who took the time to explain something fully. All the other courses I did and went to always had an "advanced" course to get the "full story. I was known as the one guy who gave the full story up front in full. That's what I wanted to to be because that's what I wanted from my educators. 

I was referring to making sure that people (reading this) understood that there is never any "lending" with anything I do. I accept that the powers that be could have maybe used a different word instead of using the same word to mean two different things. 

Regarding "rolling out" I was never a huge fan either and always told people to take a loss and move on so I agree with you there unless I am fully confident of a recovery within the time frame but that would only be as a new trade and not to get "all" my money back. It was just another trade as far as I was concerned.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> So you don't trade on a regular basis?
> 
> What are newbs supposed to do, to maintain an average of $2000-$5000 p/w,
> using only their 20k?
> 
> Also, could you share with us the details of your two trades last week?
> 
> 
> Vicki




I trade when I'm bored or I need to top up the spending account. 

Please clarify what you mean by "_What are newbs supposed to do, to maintain an average of $2000-$5000 p/w, using only their 20k?"_

Sure, here are the trades I did last week to make 15%. It was not two trades but two days. I did several trades. The green dots are profit. The red dot is a loss. Please don;t take this an average though. You might do worse or better just like me. I've had trades that doubled in one day as well as lost me several thousand. It's a topsy turvy world in options as I'm sure you are all very well aware but I believe it can be controlled enough to make enough to live very well on without having to trade every day. Most trades are good enough to supply a whole week's worth of wages but now this is turning into a commercial and I don't want that. 

Here's my results from last week. Plus a few more from earlier in the week where I made a small $400 profit from a failed trade.


----------



## Vicki

> I trade when I'm bored or I need to top up the spending account.




That's a pretty casual approach, you almost seem to make it look easy?



> Please clarify what you mean by "What are newbs supposed to do, to maintain an average of $2000-$5000 p/w, using only their 20k?"




Well I'm geussing that to maintain your claims that somebody trading on a 20k
bank, to consistantly make 2-5k a week, would have to trade more frequently?

And expose themselves to risk more often than you do.
As you said before, good money & less risk selling how-to courses!

Vicki



> Some time ago I heard of the doubling down strategy (when the bull put gets into trouble) and apparently came from some so called "teaching" guru. This actually massively increases the original risk and will only get the position out of trouble IF the market turns back up. But if it keeps going down, then those significantly increased risks can be realised and do serious damage to the account (or "bank" as you call it).




p.s. maybe I could try & sell your old e-book lol.
But then my conscience wouldn't let me sleep at night.


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> I trade when I'm bored or I need to top up the spending account...




I guess there would be little need to trade when lucrative course fees provide a no risk source of income.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> I never quote returns on margin because I have never used margin.




lol, so when you quote 31c on $1 for a 31% return over 30 days [video 3] this is quoting a return on margin :

There is Jan GOOG fly, 2 strikes wide - 570 atm, risk $2.65, reward $17.35.
Using your methodology [video 2] the return is 17.35/2.65 = 654% over ~ 40 days.
The percent per day made is 654%/40 = 16.37% per day. Therefore ~ 6000% p.a.

Just wow!!!
Or have I got something wrong here?
I know you don't trade butterflies, but I am assuming the wealth of experience implies you know about them.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> That's a pretty casual approach, you almost seem to make it look easy?
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm geussing that to maintain your claims that somebody trading on a 20k
> bank, to consistantly make 2-5k a week, would have to trade more frequently?
> 
> And expose themselves to risk more often than you do.
> As you said before, good money & less risk selling how-to courses!
> 
> Vicki
> 
> 
> 
> p.s. maybe I could try & sell your old e-book lol.
> But then my conscience wouldn't let me sleep at night.




I've been doing it a long time now so yes for me it's a matter of "need money? Go and get it" 

Actually all you need is one good trade and you are usually set for a wage. The rest is to build buffer or to make more for something specific (e.g. a hot rod I bought recently). 

My claim is that a "disciplined and practiced" options day trader (using my methods and layouts) should be able to make 5-10% at least 2 or 3 times a week if the level of risk is acceptable to them (this is definitely not for everyone). 10% of 20k is 2k so that should be enough for most people but if you want more you can keep trading but I surggest that when you make a few grand you take a few days or the rest of the week off and enjoy life. I've never had a week where I traded every single day though. You have to be patient and basically trade breakouts. There is really no "trick" to it. No one's thought to do day trading options in Australia before though and many think it's impossible - it's not. I and many of my members have proven it many times now. A few weeks ago one member rang me all excited saying they had made 62% twice in one week. Others don't get the hang of it at all and end up losing enough money to stop (which I think should be no more than 25% of your initial risk capital) so if you started with 20k and are down to 15k - stop, reconsider what you might be doing wrong and re-start carefully. 

Paper trading is essential and I have several very heavy requirements (basically, if you can not double your money within a month on paper - it's not for you or...keep practicing. My point is that I have many warnings and ideas for preparation so that newbies don't get stung week one. 

The more skill you have the less money you need or (obviously) the more you will make. I've had lots of doubling weeks as well as some shockers but I still actually believe a replacement wage (by replacement I mean at least double what you are earning now at your job) can be made with 10k - especially if you are decent at technical analysis. 

I give my ebook away these days on the site to anyone who wants it. Not sure what they are doing at the old place these days.


----------



## Vicki

> I guess there would be little need to trade when lucrative course fees provide a no risk source of income.




Your not wrong!
I wonder If there's a course for making a course like Bill's?

That's where the safe money is!
20 cents per c.d. & flog'm for 5k a piece!

Hey Bill, roughly how many members/clients do you have?


Vicki

back in a few hours, I'm going sailing with some friends.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> I guess there would be little need to trade when lucrative course fees provide a no risk source of income.




lol (sigh, roll eyes, throw pen in the air)... I do what I do for money just like you do what you do for money. You absolute cynicism says a lot more about you than it does about me. Anyone who gives their course away for free is declaring that it clearly has no value or they are making money from brokerage or some other way (I do not). Is there something wrong with selling information? I'm not a communist so I have no problem with selling a valuable service to anyone who wants it. If you want to give your information away for free I will not stand in your way or make childish insinuations. 

So what if I made ALL my money from selling courses? Is there anything wrong with that? Instead of giving me some credit for practicing what I preach you decide to take the low road. Good for you.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> Your not wrong!
> I wonder If there's a course for making a course like Bill's?
> 
> That's where the safe money is!
> 20 cents per c.d. & flog'm for 5k a piece!
> 
> Hey Bill, roughly how many members/clients do you have?
> 
> 
> Vicki
> 
> back in a few hours, I'm going sailing with some friends.




Actually they cost me far less than that because it's an instant download these days. What's your point? Do you really think that everyone reading this is impressed with you complete ignorance? It's the INFORMATION that's valuable...not the plastic. Fool. Actually, I'm the fool for thinking you were starting to be reasonable. Am I living in China? If you keep taking low blows Vicki no one is going to take you seriously. I am WASTING my day defending your stupid false lies and comments so people can hear the truth instead of just your sore loser drivel. Sailing eh? Be careful you don't fall in.


----------



## prawn_86

Its amazing the damage people can do to their own brand in just a matter of a few days.

I wonder how this page now ranks in Google after this much activity...


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Its amazing the damage people can do to their own brand in just a matter of a few days.
> 
> I wonder how this page now ranks in Google after this much activity...




My brand is me and this is who I am. A normal bloke with something to share. I'm not doing any damage at all in the eye of any intelligent people reading this. I am defending myself against slander. This thread has been near the top for a search on my name for ages and I'm glad that the moderators finally saw sense in letting me back in to defend myself against the rubbish and lies being printed in this thread. 

I'm glad and proud of all my responses - even the aggressive ones...especially the aggressive ones. People sit and cop it without defending themselves - that's not my style and never has been - ask anyone who knows me. 

I wonder what you would want to do if people were viciously attacking you publicly? Would you just sit back and take it up the ****? I refuse to let lies go unanswered and my reputation (as a fair an honest educator) is extremely important to me. I will sit here and answer every single attack, grievance, slur and defamatory comment because that's what someone who's done nothing wrong does. I know I have never done anything (on purpose or with malice) to hurt anyone and the TRUTH shall stand all scrutiny. 

My trades are on public record and have been for years. I win and I lose (sometimes I win a lot and sometimes I lose a lot - nothing new in that and usually when I'm not following my own rules.) and I share so others can lose less and if I am going to show people how to make thousands of dollars a week then you can be damn sure I will be charging for that information and I will be proud to do so. I am a proud capitalist and I have never ripped anyone off so bring it on.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> It's the INFORMATION that's valuable...not the plastic




Perhaps people are questioning the value of the information... in a roundabout way.

For instance, the likes of Lawrence McMillan & Sheldon Natenburg sell their information in book form for ~$100; and these tomes are considered as essential reading for options professionals. These two men command the highest respect in the options game.

Even McMillan's most expensive DVD set is only $600

Just a thought.


----------



## wayneL

The burning question in my mind for your current endeavour is - Why options?

The same can be achieved with CFDs with much smaller contest risk.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Perhaps people are questioning the value of the information... in a roundabout way.
> 
> ...
> 
> Just a thought.




Then they should say that. I can only reply to what is said. It was a low comment that added nothing.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> The burning question in my mind for your current endeavour is - Why options?
> 
> The same can be achieved with CFDs with much smaller contest risk.




True, it can but there is massive borrowing with CFDs (many newbies do not realise this until it's too late) and the stops don't always hold. With options I can use my own cash and I will never lose more than I'm willing to risk. I have heard some horror stories with CFDs that sadden me greatly. 

Again, I think borrowing money for a high risk/high return strategy is not wise - in my honest opinion and if my strategy provides me with what I need as far as income goes I'm happy to just use my own cash. There are lots of ways to make enough money to live on off the stock market. I'm into options and that's what I know intimately so that's what I share.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> I'm into options and that's what I know intimately so that's what I share.




So can you address post #108?
It would seem the strategy I've outlined, trumps your put spread methodology by far.:
Any weaknesses I am not seeing with the strategy?

btw the GOOG prices are as at Friday close [US]


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> True, it can but there is massive borrowing with CFDs (many newbies do not realise this until it's too late) and the stops don't always hold. With options I can use my own cash and I will never lose more than I'm willing to risk. I have heard some horror stories with CFDs that sadden me greatly.
> 
> Again, I think borrowing money for a high risk/high return strategy is not wise - in my honest opinion and if my strategy provides me with what I need as far as income goes I'm happy to just use my own cash. There are lots of ways to make enough money to live on off the stock market. I'm into options and that's what I know intimately so that's what I share.




1/ But we are talking now of day trading. While I have some sympathy with some of the points above, they are negated by removing overnight risk.

2/ Once again you've shown you don't really understand "margin". Trading CFDs or any other derivative you are trading on margin, but you are not borrowing money as in a "margin loan". It is your own money you are trading with.

3/ Options contain other non-linear risks (AKA the Greeks), yes even on an intraday basis. These are not huge on the face of it, but amplified by the number of contracts you suggest, they can have an uncomfortable impact.

4/ I would argue that you don't know options "intimately" at all if you don't understand margin.


----------



## builder2818

I understand how options work and I have traded them many times, but do not know them at the level some of those on this forum do. I have so many courses, books that I haven't had the time to go through that I got for free online (you can get everything for free if you look in the right places).

Looking at Bill's strategy, he buys options and later sells them when they change in price. Buying $20,000 worth of options over one stock and have it's price change by about 5c or more will have an impact on the price you paid for the options whether it goes in your favour or not. Delta is the important thing here for him. I know the rest of the Greeks but don't know if he uses any of the others when deciding on his entry and exits.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> So can you address post #108?
> It would seem the strategy I've outlined, trumps your put spread methodology by far.:
> Any weaknesses I am not seeing with the strategy?
> 
> btw the GOOG prices are as at Friday close [US]






mazzatelli said:


> lol, so when you quote 31c on $1 for a 31% return over 30 days [video 3] this is quoting a return on margin :
> 
> There is Jan GOOG fly, 2 strikes wide - 570 atm, risk $2.65, reward $17.35.
> Using your methodology [video 2] the return is 17.35/2.65 = 654% over ~ 40 days.
> The percent per day made is 654%/40 = 16.37% per day. Therefore ~ 6000% p.a.
> 
> Just wow!!!
> Or have I got something wrong here?
> I know you don't trade butterflies, but I am assuming the wealth of experience implies you know about them.




Not sure exactly what method/strategy you're talking about here and I'd have to use the charts and my excel sheet to lay it all out but if I was making that much from a spread (as I have done) these days I would close it the next day or as soon as it gave me a reasonable profit. I don't do the US market so I can't really comment. 




wayneL said:


> 1/ But we are talking now of day trading. While I have some sympathy with some of the points above, they are negated by removing overnight risk.
> 
> 2/ Once again you've shown you don't really understand "margin". Trading CFDs or any other derivative you are trading on margin, but you are not borrowing money as in a "margin loan". It is your own money you are trading with.
> 
> 3/ Options contain other non-linear risks (AKA the Greeks), yes even on an intraday basis. These are not huge on the face of it, but amplified by the number of contracts you suggest, they can have an uncomfortable impact.
> 
> 4/ I would argue that you don't know options "intimately" at all if you don't understand margin.




Yes I do. But on the other hand I only understand what I need to understand. I do not know or understand all the greeks and I don't have to. Anyone who thinks they are not borrowing to trade CFDs needs to look at it more carefully but I am not an expert in CFDs and don't have to be because I don't trade or suggest anyone else trade them. 

Again, I'm not here to prove I know everything - just my stuff. I (like most normal people) have better things to do with my day than fuss and stress over some little detail that does not affect me. Greeks and an intimate knowledge of option pricing models is not relevant when you are day trading except possibly for delta so you can try to figure out how much an option will rise in value if it went to a certain price - FYI I usually trade .5 delta and above. The yanks prefer to trade .8 or .9 delta which are very difficult to find in Australia unless you are trading in the last week of an option's life which is of course crazy. 

When you use a bulk strategy like I do all I have to do is dump 20k on my best direction, wait a few minutes or hours and exit with thousands so I can go out and drive my hot rods. I'm not interested in becoming a "death" trader (someone who holds an option overnight) again though occasionally I must admit the signals are too good so I'll put a smaller amount on an overnight trade but I hate the feeling of waiting and being out of control so I really do try to avoid holding any options overnight. 

Especially lately as the normal patterns are not producing profits like they did back when the trends where strong. Day trading options avoids all that by trading only the current daily obvious trend. The downside is that you have to use an abnormal amount of cash (if 10-20k is abnormal for you) to leverage the move and by leverage I mean use the power of the move not borrowing any money. 

I mean, how often do you see an option go from 80c-85 or 88c in one day or one hour? All the time right? You guys know that. I just kept working at it until I figured out a way to make use of those trades and I tried every amount from $1,000 to $100,000 on a day trade. I found that $20k was the right amount (50k is the max) but 10k would be ok to start. Seems like a lot until you hear of people dumping $150,000 and 2 houses on an unmonitored put spread trade.

I'm sorry to commercialise this thread again (explaining what I do and what I sell) but you guys have to know where I'm coming from.


----------



## OneDayWealth

builder2818 said:


> I understand how options work and I have traded them many times, but do not know them at the level some of those on this forum do. I have so many courses, books that I haven't had the time to go through that I got for free online (you can get everything for free if you look in the right places).
> 
> Looking at Bill's strategy, he buys options and later sells them when they change in price. Buying $20,000 worth of options over one stock and have it's price change by about 5c or more will have an impact on the price you paid for the options whether it goes in your favour or not. Delta is the important thing here for him. I know the rest of the Greeks but don't know if he uses any of the others when deciding on his entry and exits.




I use delta only. The rest relate only to long term positions which I am not a fan of. If I am trading a $1.00 option and there is a .5 delta and I'm expecting the stock to move 20c or more then I know I'll get at least 5% maybe 10% which will be more than enough for me to make double the average Australian wage in one sitting and the most important thing is that all my money will be safe in the bank overnight so I can relax (a luxury few option traders ever experience), have an early night and look forward to a whole new universe the next day.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> FYI I usually trade .5 delta and above. The yanks prefer to trade .8 or .9 delta which are very difficult to find in Australia unless you are trading in the last week of an option's life which is of course crazy.




Let me confirm...your taking the pi$$, right?


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Let me confirm...your taking the pi$$, right?




No, why? Which part don't you understand? And please, if you're going to ask a question, ask a question.


----------



## mazzatelli

Why can't we get an option 30 days out with 0.8 delta? 

And please when you answer a query, read the full question


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Why can't we get an option 30 days out with 0.8 delta?




Oh I see, yes there are (of course) options with .8, .9 and even 1:1 pricing but they don't have what I call an acceptable "crowd" in the depth. They are there and you can buy and sell them but you would be dealing with the market makers and they are not so generous (as I'm sure you all know). I like to trade where I can see other traders so I can judge the current market price without needing a quote from the MMs. Generally the best trading is (predictably) around the money.


----------



## cutz

All due respect Bill but the fact of the matter is day trading options without a market makers edge is a losing strategy, occasionally you may happen to fluke the right side a move, most of the time you may scratch the trade minus costs, occasionally you may be on the wrong side of a big move unable to get out. 

Unfortunately (for you) many won’t even bat an eyelid over 5 days worth of trades, doesn’t mean much to me, my concern is a newbie may take it the wrong way.


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> Oh I see, yes there are (of course) options with .8, .9 and even 1:1 pricing but they don't have what I call an acceptable "crowd" in the depth. They are there and you can buy and sell them but you would be dealing with the market makers and they are not so generous (as I'm sure you all know). I like to trade where I can see other traders so I can judge the current market price without needing a quote from the MMs. Generally the best trading is (predictably) around the money.




If say for auguments sake you could see huge so called "crowd" at delta 1 would you trade there instead, (using options)

In other words if there is plenty of liquidity at all strikes, what's the best delta ?


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> All due respect Bill but the fact of the matter is day trading options without a market makers edge is a losing strategy, occasionally you may happen to fluke the right side a move, most of the time you may scratch the trade minus costs, occasionally you may be on the wrong side of a big move unable to get out.
> 
> Unfortunately many won’t even bat an eyelid over 5 days worth of trades, doesn’t mean much to me, my concern is a newbie may take it the wrong way.





No it's not. I and many of my members have proven (perhaps for the first time) otherwise. What is interesting about what you just said is that many brokers say the same thing. 

The fact is that there are HEAPS of easy to trade moves every week...if you know where to look. I also fear a new trader jumping in too early which is why my paper trading exercises (which are conducted live - not posthumously) are *brutal* and will prepare everyone for what to expect. In fact, I have taken great pains to protect the newbie because that's what I was and no one took the time to protect me. That's where I get my drive...to help new traders like I used to be.


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> If say for auguments sake you could see huge so called "crowd" at delta 1 would you trade there instead, (using options)




Yes. Every single time. I wish!

There is no one (apart from me) teaching day trading options in Australia (probably because no one can find the usual .8+ deltas) so I had to get all my tips and suggestions from the US option day traders (there are heaps of those) and adapted them for Australia. If we could trade 1 deltas (like they do in the US) I could do it with about $5,000 (not 20k). 

I wish I was trading the US day market but 1am to 6am doesn't suit me plus they have some funny laws about day trading and getting your money out of those US brokers is hell on a plate.


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> The fact is that there are HEAPS of easy to trade moves every week...if you know where to look. I also fear a new trader jumping in too early which is why my paper trading exercises (which are conducted live - not posthumously) are *brutal* and will prepare everyone for what to expect.




Why not post your paper trades here then? If you are correct:

1. You will silence any critics
2. You will attract new business

All i'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric and not a lot of examples. You have been given the perfect platform to prove everyone wrong


----------



## nunthewiser

prawn_86 said:


> Why not post your paper trades here then? If you are correct:
> 
> 1. You will silence any critics
> 2. You will attract new business
> 
> All i'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric and not a lot of examples. You have been given the perfect platform to prove everyone wrong





+1.


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> Yes. Every single time. I wish!




Which leads me to my next question, delta one is equivalent to its underlying (for all intent and purpose), CBA and BHP move the ASX200, why not just trade the futures ??


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Why not post your paper trades here then? If you are correct:
> 
> 1. You will silence any critics
> 2. You will attract new business
> 
> All i'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric and not a lot of examples. You have been given the perfect platform to prove everyone wrong




I appreciate that and have mentioned several times that I have many examples already posted on my forum. I haven't paper traded for many years though. I can offer a few (mostly) video examples of what "could" have been taken on several days but most of my examples are real live hand-on-heart trades. 

I have also posted at least a month's worth of trades on here before but like I said earlier my statements were removed and I was banned as soon as I offered proof to prove my claims that I am really trading what I teach. I could post a link to the forum (I'm sure Google will tell you) but not sure if the moderators would appreciate it. 

My aim here is not to gain business (not that I would mind) but to answer slurs with facts and corrections. I'm grateful that this thread has (so far) morphed into a reasonable discussion again. I would love to promote and be held up to scrutiny from all you guys because to be frank I think a lot of you guys (especially the technical analysts) could make a killing using my methods. I wish I had some of the skills that you guys have I'd be doubling weekly (before you mathematical geniuses start adding up weekly doubling I don't usually compound - I spend!) but you guys could EASILY make thousands a week. You could even start with a small amount and compound it into a decent bank so you are risking mostly the market's money. In fact I teach that people should get into several zones asap. 

Buffer zone (where you have more profit than you would normally lose on a bad trade).

Risk Free zone (where you have doubled your money and put your original money aside or back in the bank and are now trading with 100% profit and therefore - in a way - you have zero real risk to money you saved or borrowed). 

I had/have big ideas about how people can reduce or eliminate the risks of option trading because it saddens me greatly when new traders throw money away for an avoidable reason such as ignorance of best practice.


----------



## cutz

prawn_86 said:


> Why not post your paper trades here then? If you are correct:




Paper trades on ASX options will not cut it, the price taken may not necessarily  be last price, stops will not get executed like they do on stocks/futures.

If someone is selling a service, at least 12 months worth of proven actual results should be required.


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Which leads me to my next question, delta one is equivalent to its underlying, CBA and BHP move the ASX200, why not just trade the futures ??




Not sure. Just never have. I know options. They supply me with what I need (a few k per week) so I'm happy.


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Paper trades on ASX options will not cut it, stops will not get executed like they do on stocks/futures.
> 
> If someone is selling a service, at least 12 months worth of proven results should be required.




That would be handy if I traded every day for 12 months but I do not (I trade when I feel like it or when I need to boost my bank account) and what I do is not a gauge for what you can do. You might be a better trader than I could ever be...or you could be much worse, undisciplined and un-practiced.  I let the real market show you the truth. I'll show you where to look and you can go and see for yourself.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> I had/have big ideas about how people can reduce or eliminate the risks of option trading because it saddens me greatly when new traders throw money away for an avoidable reason s*uch as ignorance of best practice.*




might as well jump in too !!

You have to be kidding? You are quoting retun on margin!! For god sake!! You haven't even got on the same page as best practise let alone being capable of teaching it.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Yes. Every single time. I wish!
> 
> There is no one (apart from me) teaching day trading options in Australia (probably because no one can find the usual .8+ deltas) so I had to get all my tips and suggestions from the US option day traders (there are heaps of those) and adapted them for Australia. If we could trade 1 deltas (like they do in the US) I could do it with about $5,000 (not 20k).
> 
> I wish I was trading the US day market but 1am to 6am doesn't suit me plus they have some funny laws about day trading and getting your money out of those US brokers is hell on a plate.




CFDs have a delta of 1 and tighter spreads.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> might as well jump in too !!
> 
> You have to be kidding? You are quoting retun on margin!! For god sake!! You haven't even got on the same page as best practise let alone being capable of teaching it.




You are 100% wrong. 

*I am NOT quoting returns on margin* as I have explained several times. I use CASH! I buy things (Calls or Puts - depending on what I see) and sell them for a profit the same day. 
Which part of that don't YOU understand?

I've been teaching it for years with very few honest complaints. Sometimes people kick up when they lose money but no one can question my material without coming away feeling like I've done my best to get the method across. People are trading happily and enjoying their lives without stress of the dreaded overnight positions. I'm happy with what I do and what I teach and personally I can't understand why I'm the only one teaching it.


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> If say for auguments sake you could see huge so called "crowd" at delta 1 would you trade there instead, (using options)
> 
> In other words if there is plenty of liquidity at all strikes, what's the best delta ?




Obviously 1:1. If you can buy an option for $4.00 that moves as much as the underlying stock that's a good thing. 



nunthewiser said:


> +1.




I've answered that. I have *plenty *of real examples posted (including losses) on my forum. 



wayneL said:


> CFDs have a delta of 1 and tighter spreads.




...and they are fine if you like massive borrowing. I don't. I prefer to use real cash.


----------



## nunthewiser

and repeats how easy it has been shown in the past to supply dummy previous results EVEN  on an electronic broker statement/results sheet/log.

Naked shorts .. do ya thing bud 

live trades posted on entry and exit in real time will always show the truth/bullsheet 

anyhoo this thread looks more like sales pitch for a product that can be found for free right here on ASF (thanks Wayne)

rather funny reading posts and sentences that contradict themselves on a constant basis tho....

back to the popcorn


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> Obviously 1:1. If you can buy an option for $4.00 that moves as much as the underlying stock that's a good thing.




See that's the thing, a pure day trader knows that futures/cfd's are the instrument of choice, day trading options without a market makers edge is not viable in the long run.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> and repeats how easy it has been shown in the past to supply dummy previous results EVEN  on an electronic broker statement.




Mine are real and I can prove it. I resent the implication that I have doctored any statements. 




nunthewiser said:


> Naked shorts .. do ya thing bud




What?



nunthewiser said:


> live trades posted on entry and exit in real time will always show the truth/bullsheet




Thank you! That's exactly what I've done. 



nunthewiser said:


> anyhoo this thread looks more like sales pitch for a product that can be found for free right here on ASF (thanks Wayne)




Not my fault. I'm here defending my name against slurs amd untruths. 



nunthewiser said:


> rather funny reading posts and sentences that contradict themselves on a constant basis tho....




Show me ONE contradiction. Instead of spewing impulsive vomit get specific or stay out of it.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> ...and they are fine if you like massive borrowing. I don't. I prefer to use real cash.




ROTFLMAO

Haven't I addressed this already?

CFDs are traded on margin, not one iota of borrowings, just like futures. 

Hey I like day trading, but options are LEAST efficient means of achieving that.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> You are 100% wrong.
> 
> *I am NOT quoting returns on margin*  as I have explained several times. I use CASH! I buy things (Calls or  Puts - depending on what I see) and sell them for a profit the same day.
> Which part of that don't YOU understand?






OneDayWealth said:


> I never quote returns on margin because I have never used margin.






builder2818 said:


> That is what is known as *margin* - the difference between the strikes less the premium received.






OneDayWealth said:


> Yep, I know that. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I never borrow money in the normal "margin" sense.






mazzatelli said:


> lol, so when you quote 31c on $1 for a 31% return over 30 days [video 3] this is quoting a return on margin :




What is so difficult for you to understand? We are clearly not referring to margin loans.

Just to spell it out, in video 3, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjdvAMq018, your hypothetical example is -19.50/18.50 bull put spread.
The sold put is for 40c while the bought put (insurance as you call it) is for 9c - netting a 31c credit.

The risk as you state is the difference between the strikes of $1 - or $1,000 per option contract. This is the *margin* (I haven't deducted the credit yet) that you agreed on in an earlier quote.

You then run a calculation: 31c/$1 for a 31% return on *margins *over 30 day*.

*Is the context now clear?


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> See that's the thing, a pure day trader knows that futures/cfd's are the instrument of choice, day trading options without a market makers edge is not viable in the long run.




A "pure" trader? rofl...what's a "pure" trader?

Not viable eh? You are also clearly and obviously 100% wrong again. So what have I and heaps of my members been doing for the last few years? ...lol 

Are you saying that options don't move during the day? You might want to have a look at a real option price one day (any day will do). If you don't know where to look to find an option price let me know and I'll show you.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> What is so difficult for you to understand? We are clearly not referring to margin loans.
> 
> Just to spell it out, in video 3, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjdvAMq018, your hypothetical example is -19.50/18.50 bull put spread.
> The sold put is for 40c while the bought put (insurance as you call it) is for 9c - netting a 31c credit.
> 
> The risk as you state is the difference between the strikes of $1 - or $1,000 per option contract. This is the *margin* (I haven't deducted the credit yet) that you agreed on in an earlier quote.
> 
> You then run a calculation: 31c/$1 for a 31% return on *margin.
> 
> *Is the context now clear?




Yes and I am correct but thanks for pointing out that the return is actually larger than 31c for $1.00 risked. It's actually 31c for 69c risked (maximum possible loss) about 49% if you let it expire naturally (something I never do).


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> ROTFLMAO
> 
> Haven't I addressed this already?
> 
> CFDs are traded on margin, not one iota of borrowings, just like futures.
> 
> Hey I like day trading, but options are LEAST efficient means of achieving that.




Yeah right...tell that to someone who suddenly has to find $100,000 because their "stop loss" didn't hold and then find out how much you really DID borrow. If you put in $1,000 and the broker lends you $99,000 to trade a $100,000 position what do you call that? Gifting? lol

Anyone who thinks they are NOT borrowing massive amounts of money that they are 100% responsible for (if the stops don't hold - as I have personally witnessed) is delusional and needs to have a frank and honest discussion with their broker. 

In any case, I don't trade CFDs (for the above reason) so I'm really not qualified to respond too much apart from I will not borrow money to trade no matter how you want to flavour it. It's borrowing money!


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> I trade when I'm bored or I need to top up the spending account.
> 
> Please clarify what you mean by "_What are newbs supposed to do, to maintain an average of $2000-$5000 p/w, using only their 20k?"_
> 
> Sure, here are the trades I did last week to make 15%. It was not two trades but two days. I did several trades. The green dots are profit. The red dot is a loss. Please don;t take this an average though. You might do worse or better just like me. I've had trades that doubled in one day as well as lost me several thousand. It's a topsy turvy world in options as I'm sure you are all very well aware but I believe it can be controlled enough to make enough to live very well on without having to trade every day. Most trades are good enough to supply a whole week's worth of wages but now this is turning into a commercial and I don't want that.
> 
> Here's my results from last week. Plus a few more from earlier in the week where I made a small $400 profit from a failed trade.




So newbies could be tempted to think all is good when they see that you have had some winning trades here.  However, what they might not realise is that you are only taking a few cents profit and yet potentially risking far more on each move.  

It wouldn't take much of a move to wipe out the profits of a few small gain trades.

Also, trying to get out when wrong can be quite difficult and more cents lost on slippage.  An example (for newbies), if one is trying to exit a long call and the underlying market falls away quite quickly, bids can be quickly removed or dropped much lower.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> So newbies could be tempted to think all is good when they see that you have had some winning trades here.  However, what they might not realise is that you are only taking a few cents profit and yet potentially risking far more on each move.
> 
> It wouldn't take much of a move to wipe out the profits of a few small gain trades.
> 
> Also, trying to get out when wrong can be quite difficult and more cents lost on slippage.  An example (for newbies), if one is trying to exit a long call and the underlying market falls away quite quickly, bids can be quickly removed or dropped much lower.




True, which is why I insist that they observe the market and it's moves personally through massive paper trading. I took only a few cents because I discovered the move was over. I exit regardless of if I make $5.00 or $5,000. The run ends when it ends and you must exit. True again, those example trades are small but I have many examples of larger trades that make it very worthwhile and easy to exit for massive profit. I have exit rules including an "EXIT NOW! rule for those who have a hard time taking a loss. 

Please don't take my example above in solitary and do me the respect of examining all my disclosed public trades including the losses. Remember that's me trading my style. You might have a different style - I'm cool with that.  

I take new traders VERY seriously and warn them heavily before they go anywhere near the market with real money. Something nearly every other course I've done (and I think I've probably done more than most) fails to teach.


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> A "pure" trader? rofl...what's a "pure" trader?
> 
> Not viable eh? You are also clearly and obviously 100% wrong again. So what have I and heaps of my members been doing for the last few years? ...lol
> 
> Are you saying that options don't move during the day? You might want to have a look at a real option price one day (any day will do). If you don't know where to look to find an option price let me know and I'll show you.




I actually wrote pure daytrader, this is someone that doesn't hold overnight positions.

Unfortunately you are debating options with people that understand them intimately; at least one is an options professional.

I do know how to find option prices and I wouldn’t bother trying to day trade them, I prefer to stick to spreads spanning several months across a couple of markets making daily adjustments keeping the Greeks in check.


----------



## nunthewiser

> Had a pretty good day yesterday. Made (after costs) a little over 5k on two trades. Last Friday I started with around 21k and made $3,500 in 4 trades (1 overnight, 1 break even and two winners). I followed that with a loss yesterday of around -$2,000 (it's not all beer and biscuits) but yesterday made a little over $5,000 on two winning (easy) trades that blind Freddy would have picked (and many did).




thats taken from your "come in sucker " page

live trades my a$$

just hindsight bragging with a baited hook for some wide eyed newbie too swallow 

dime a dozen on the internet 

Found NO live calls/entry/exits  on your site.

as posted earlier broker statements/result pages/logs easy to doctor with the help of a lil creativity and software.

my previous post still stands ...

why did i waste my time on this post ?


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> I actually wrote pure daytrader, this is someone that doesn't hold overnight positions.




Sorry about that. I understand what you mean now - sort of.



cutz said:


> Unfortunately you are debating options with people that understand them intimately; at least one is an options professional.




So am I. If a "professional" is someone who makes money trading options.



cutz said:


> I do know how to find option prices and I wouldn’t bother trying to day trade them, I prefer to stick to spreads spanning several months across a couple of markets daily adjustments keeping the Greeks in check.




Sounds like a fair enough strategy. 



cutz said:


> The fact that you a mocking guys like, Mazza, WayneL, Sails, is laughable, these people have gone out of their way offering free no bull options advice to who ever has asked for it.




I know nothing about any of the names you mentioned above. I also offer "no-bull" advice. If they want to do it for free (like I did for YEARS!) that's up to them. If they had something of value to share I'm sure they would sell it to unless they have an issue with selling information that will help people. In any case, There's always a pay off for every thing. I'm sure they are happy with the "value" they get for their information. I'm just answering questions and defending against unfair attacks and slander. Some of these people have mocked me too so...?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> thats taken from your "come in sucker " page
> 
> live trades my a$$
> 
> just hindsight bragging with a baited hook for some wide eyed newbie too swallow
> 
> dime a dozen on the internet
> 
> Found NO live calls/entry/exits  on your site.
> 
> as posted earlier broker statements/result pages/logs easy to doctor with the help of a lil creativity and software.
> 
> my previous post still stands ...
> 
> why did i waste my time on this post ?




I told you before...all my trades are true. *I have never doctored anything*. You are calling me a liar. You are very lucky you are not saying it my face! Gutless prick.

Some trades look back - yes and there's nothing wrong with that. But every single time I have claimed a trade was real it *has *been real. How DARE you call me a liar! You don't even know me. Real easy to call someone a liar from behind your keyboard.

You previous post and this one are RUBBISH! Stay out of it!


----------



## nunthewiser

lol

oh dear.

with that outburst of emotion darl i think you should stick to trying to fleece the minions rather than convince me that your fair dinkum

lol 

unreal


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> lol
> 
> oh dear.
> 
> with that outburst of emotion darl i think you should stick to trying to fleece the minions rather than convince me that your fair dinkum
> 
> lol
> 
> unreal




I'm NOT your "dear". You are gutless and if your "thing" is calling people liars in public then you deserve what you get. I resent your statement that I "fleece" anyone. I don't put guns to people's heads to buy my stuff. I offer and people enquire, I warn them and they buy then I help them and they profit. Your twisted bitterness does not alter that one bit.

You have a big mouth and nothing of any value to say. STAY OUT OF IT! 

I wonder how you would react if I called you a liar in front of everyone. Pull your head in.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> I told you before...all my trades are true. *I have never doctored anything*. You are calling me a liar. You are very lucky you are not saying it my face! *Gutless prick*.
> 
> mmmmm
> 
> Some trades look back - yes and there's nothing wrong with that. *But every single time I have claimed a trade was real it has been real*.
> You previous post and this one are RUBBISH! Stay out of it!




Sorry.

I tried using blind faith and believing you .

but no wouldnt happen.

I must be a cynic.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> Sorry.
> 
> I tried using blind faith and believing you .
> 
> but no wouldnt happen.
> 
> I must be a cynic.




Well then you should make equiries (who the hell is asking for "blind" anything? only a stupid irresponsible person would use "blind faith" to buy an options trading course - of all things!) instead of making stupid baseless allegations.


----------



## nunthewiser

Well there ya have it folks.

A bit of pointing out that maybe sometimes results posted  MAY be doctored and my emotional lil friend here got all in a tither.

Great ad for your sales pitch bud

as you were .

oh any chance someone can knock me up a statement i can show at the next rotary dinner i go to?

wouldnt mind impressing the ladies


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> You are 100% wrong.
> 
> *I am NOT quoting returns on margin* as I have explained several times. I use CASH! I buy things (Calls or Puts - depending on what I see) and sell them for a profit the same day.
> Which part of that don't YOU understand?




LOL. Mate do yourself a huge favour. And realise you are very WRONG. You are using the return on margin figures. Classic tool of snake oilers. 

Traders don't quote those figures because they know its risk adjusted return that shows not only profit but how much risk you are taking. The fact that you cannot even grasp the basics of what your doing makes you dangerous to newbie's.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> Well there ya have it folks.
> 
> A bit of pointing out that maybe sometimes results posted  MAY be doctored and my emotional lil friend here got all in a tither.
> 
> Great ad for your sales pitch bud
> 
> as you were .
> 
> oh any chance someone can knock me up a statement i can show at the next rotary dinner i go to?
> 
> wouldnt mind impressing the ladies




You are an idiot. You called me a liar. What do you want me to do? Sit here and take it? You might enjoy that feeling in the rear but I can assure you I do not.



Trembling Hand said:


> LOL. Mate do yourself a huge favour. And realise you are very WRONG. You are using the return on margin figures. Classic tool of snake oilers.
> 
> Traders don't quote those figures because they know its risk adjusted return that shows not only profit but how much risk you are taking. The fact that you cannot even grasp the basics of what your doing makes you dangerous to newbie's.





What are you talking about? When I risk 69c and make 31c there is no other way to say it. I *AM* only risking 69c and I *AM* making 31c. How is that wrong or misleading in *ANY* way? Do yourself a favour and look up how to sell Put Spreads. You are dead wrong - again...lol I have sold millions of dollars worth of Put Spreads...how many have you sold? If any, you will know I'm right. If none then...? 

I grasped the basics LONG ago mate. Seems you still have a ways to go. Go and push your doubts elsewhere. I'm clear in my conscience that I am not only doing the right thing but I'm providing a necessary clarification of the facts in my courses.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> You are an idiot. You called me a liar. What do you want me to do? Sit here and take it? You might enjoy that feeling but I can assure you I do not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




no actually you pointed out that you were lying, i have not called you a liar as yet (search my posts)

i asked for live trades in real time.. you said that you had them on your forum.......i looked at your forum and could not find any LIVE entrys/exits only hindsight statements ( which the vailidty is unproven.)

now please stop lying and stick to the facts at hand

P.s why all the namecalling champ....... leads me to believe maybe i hit a nerve with my quest for the truth in this matter?


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> What are you talking about? When I risk 69c and make 31c there is no other way to say it. I *AM* only risking 69c and I *AM* making 31c. How is that wrong or misleading in *ANY* way? Do yourself a favour and look up how to sell Put Spreads. You are dead wrong - again...lol *I have sold millions of dollars worth of Put Spreads*...how many have you sold? If any, you will know I'm right. If none then...?
> 
> I grasped the basics LONG ago mate. Seems you still have a ways to go. Go and push your doubts elsewhere. I'm clear in my conscience that I am not only doing the right thing but I'm providing a necessary clarification of the facts in my courses.




Mate here is a classic example of why you are wrong. See the bit of yours underlined. The value of your trades is as you say in the millions yet you quote profit based on the minimum margin your broker requires. Anyone who trades knows minimum margin is for newbies and snake oilers.

Then of course there is the glaring topic of why in the hell would you trade ASX option on a intraday basis at all?? ridiculous spreads, brokerage & movements.

Anyway. It seems you cannot answer questions but wanna start throwing around agro replies. Funny respose for someone who knows what they are doing?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> no actually you pointed out that you were lying, i have not called you a liar as yet (search my posts)
> 
> i asked for live trades in real time.. you said that you had them on your forum.......i looked at your forum and could not find any LIVE entrys/exits only hindsight statements ( which the vailidty is unproven.)
> 
> now please stop lying and stick to the facts at hand




For god's sake!

I never admitted to lying because I never lied. I told you flat out that some of the trades are backward looking to provide an example of what "might" have been possible in order to illustrate how much options move during the day - nothing at all wrong with that unless I am passing them off as real trades which I *never* have done and never will do - I don't need to. I clearly state that in all such examples. I was being *honest *not lying. You might want to try reading the entire posts before flying off on crazy accusations that hurt real reputations. 

Not sure where you are looking but I have posted plenty of real trades. In the course I do two live trades right in front of the members. 

Now please stop saying I'm lying and stick to the facts at hand!


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> That's because I'm not a professional....






OneDayWealth said:


> ...So am I. If a "professional" is someone who makes money trading options...




The above are quotes from your recent posts.  Just click on the arrow in the blue square to take you to your own posts with these two contradictory statements.

My understanding of professional is trained by a financial instution.  MMs are an example of highly trained professionals.  I simply don't see that same depth of knowledge coming through in your posts.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Mate here is a classic example of why you are wrong. See the bit of yours underlined. The value of your trades is as you say in the millions yet you quote profit based on the minimum margin your broker requires. Anyone who trades knows minimum margin is for newbies and snake oilers.
> 
> Then of course there is the glaring topic of why in the hell would you trade ASX option on a intraday basis at all?? ridiculous spreads, brokerage & movements.
> 
> Anyway. It seems you cannot answer questions but wanna start throwing around agro replies. Funny respose for someone who knows what they are doing?




The two comments do not exclude each other. When I sell a spread I promise to buy lots of stock. That's a fact. When I buy protection I am protecting a lot of stock. That's also a fact. I have sold millions of dollars worth of spreads but I only "risked" the difference between the spread and the net premium. 

I stand by my explanation. 

And you try sitting here wasting a Sunday while people line up to punch you in the face for no good reason and see how you end up. I'm a real bloke and yes, I get upset when people call me a liar in a public forum as would you!


----------



## wayneL

Oh brother! Your disingenuity knows no bounds - you are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds here. You are equating overnight risk in  overly leveraged CFDs to daytrading risk with options. Cute tactic when sucking in nooooooobs, but doesn't really wash with us here.



OneDayWealth said:


> Yeah right...tell that to someone who suddenly has to find $100,000 because their "stop loss" didn't hold and then find out how much you really DID borrow. If you put in $1,000 and the broker lends you $99,000 to trade a $100,000 position what do you call that? Gifting? lol
> 
> Anyone who thinks they are NOT borrowing massive amounts of money that they are 100% responsible for (if the stops don't hold - as I have personally witnessed) is delusional and needs to have a frank and honest discussion with their broker.
> 
> In any case, I don't trade CFDs (for the above reason) so I'm really not qualified to respond too much apart from I will not borrow money to trade no matter how you want to flavour it. It's borrowing money!




So must I really go into the mechanics of derivatives here? CFD means Contract For Difference. You are entering a contract with a facilitator to settle the difference between the entering price and the exit price of an underlying security.

It's just a contract; there is no transfer of ownership in any way, shape, or form. Ergo, there is nothing to borrow money for. However the facilitator/broker requires the trader to deposit a performance bond to cover possible losses.

This operates in the same way as futures and short options and spreads.

So you see, there is no loan. 

Risk - YES

Loan - NO


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> The above are quotes from your recent posts.  Just click on the arrow in the blue square to take you to your own posts with these two contradictory statements.
> 
> My understanding of professional is trained by a financial institution.  MMs are an example of highly trained professionals.  I simply don't see that same depth of knowledge coming through in your posts.




I am a "professional" if a professional is one who makes money from what they do. A plumber is a "professional" plumber if they are charging for their services. 

I am not a professional if the only way (in your view) is to be trained by official institutions (though I do hold a PS146 certificate in general investment advice). I don;t need to know everything the market maker does because I don't have to deal with a million people all trading different strategies. I trade one style, I know that style, it works for me, it works for others.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Oh brother! Your disingenuity knows no bounds - you are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds here. You are equating overnight risk in  overly leveraged CFDs to daytrading risk with options. Cute tactic when sucking in nooooooobs, but doesn't really wash with us here.
> 
> 
> 
> So must I really go into the mechanics of derivatives here? CFD means Contract For Difference. You are entering a contract with a facilitator to settle the difference between the entering price and the exit price of an underlying security.
> 
> It's just a contract; there is no transfer of ownership in any way, shape, or form. Ergo, there is nothing to borrow money for. However the facilitator/broker requires the trader to deposit a performance bond to cover possible losses.
> 
> This operates in the same way as futures and short options and spreads.
> 
> So you see, there is no loan.
> 
> Risk - YES
> 
> Loan - NO




Whatever. Sounds like you are a CFD expert and like I said - I am not. I do know that you are borrowing though - no matter how you want to spin it. I checked this simple fact with my brokers and they assure me that they are indeed lending me the money to buy and sell the stock with a CFD and if it drops and the stops don't hold then I am responsible for the whole drop - just as if I'd bought it myself but maybe yes, I am refering to overnight CFDs or whatever. Like I said. I'm an exspert in what I do but not in everything. Ask me about day trading options and I'll share but please...enough with the accusations. Faaark. *I have NEVER sucked in anyone!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Now please stop saying I'm lying and stick to the facts at hand!




The facts provided are : you stated that there were live trade examples on your forum...... there is none ONLY hindsight statements( which could or could not be doctored) .NO real time entrys/exits.

This fine forum has provided you a platform on which to provide LIVE entrys/exits........you provided the answer that you already had done so on your forum (there is none ONLY hindsight statements( which could or could not be doctored) .NO real time entrys/exits)

maybe post up some LIVE entrys/exits here for a period of time in the future instead of creating an abusive smokescreen might help.

but hey i have a feeling that perhaps that wont happen.

You have a great day darl.. and maybe someone out there reading this might believe hindsight questionable result statements ..... but i certainly dont.

back to the popcorn


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Whatever. Sounds like you are a CFD expert and like I said - I am not. I do know that you are borrowing though - no matter how you want to spin it. I checked this simple fact with my brokers* and they assure me that they are indeed lending me the money to buy and sell the stock *with a CFD and if it drops and the stops don't hold then I am responsible for the whole drop - just as if I'd bought it myself but maybe yes, I am refering to overnight CFDs or whatever. Like I said. I'm an exspert in what I do but not in everything. Ask me about day trading options and I'll share but please...enough with the accusations. Faaark. *I have NEVER sucked in anyone!!!!!!!!!*




You are not buying and selling stock. I just explained that. 

BTW I don't trade CFDs, this is just basic knowledge.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> The facts provided are : you stated that there were live trade examples on your forum...... there is none ONLY hindsight statements( which could or could not be doctored) .NO real time entrys/exits.
> 
> This fine forum has provided you a platform on which to provide LIVE entrys/exits........you provided the answer that you already had on your forum (there is none ONLY hindsight statements( which could or could not be doctored) .NO real time entrys/exits)
> 
> maybe post up some LIVE entrys/exits here for a period of time in the future instead of creating an abusive smokescreen might help.
> 
> but hey i have a feeling that perhaps that wont happen.
> 
> You have a great day darl.. and maybe someone out there reading this might believe hindsight questionable result statements ..... but i certainly dont.
> 
> back to the popcorn




What can I say...put your glasses on. I just counted at least a dozen real live trades that were NOT doctored that are on there. Stop saying that I doctor. It's really starting to piss me off!  

and smart ****, I'm not allowed to post links to my website. I did once and I got blasted so I told the moderators to remove it - they didn't.


----------



## builder2818

Trembling Hand said:


> Mate here is a classic example of why you are wrong. See the bit of yours underlined. The value of your trades is as you say in the millions yet you quote profit based on the minimum margin your broker requires. Anyone who trades knows minimum margin is for newbies and snake oilers.




I am confused on this part......isn't quoting minimum margins what you would be looking at from a risk management point of view? If I had a 50c spread and picked up 18c premium, I am risking 32c. Over 10 contracts I am risking $3200 of my $5000 to make $1800. 

I traded a NCM bear call spread when it was around $35.90 a few months ago and it shot up to nearly $40 during that months trade. I sold the $36 calls and bought the $36.50 for 10 contracts. I lost my $3200 knowing that's all I was risking. Am I missing something here?


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> You are not buying and selling stock. I just explained that.
> 
> BTW I don't trade CFDs, this is just basic knowledge.




Like I said, try telling that to the poor trader who has to sell their house because the stop losses didn't hold.


----------



## OneDayWealth

builder2818 said:


> I am confused on this part......isn't quoting minimum margins what you would be looking at from a risk management point of view? If I had a 50c spread and picked up 18c premium, I am risking 32c. Over 10 contracts I am risking $3200 of my $5000 to make $1800.
> 
> I traded a NCM bear call spread when it was around $35.90 a few months ago and it shot up to nearly $40 during that months trade. I sold the $36 calls and bought the $36.50 for 10 contracts. I lost my $3200 knowing that's all I was risking. Am I missing something here?




Nope. You got it in one.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Stop saying that I doctor. It's really starting to piss me off!
> 
> and smart ****, I'm not allowed to post links to my website. I did once and I got blasted so I told the moderators to remove it - they didn't.




please point out where i said YOU doctor the statements.

Please see someone in regards to your anger and reality management it is obviously affecting your enjoyment of this fine site.

nothing smart **** about my comments , the forums here no need for links to a *questionable* website , just post the trades here in real time.

anything else?


----------



## OneDayWealth

Just let me also add that this whole thread is practically moot. I'm not even a big fan of risking money anymore. I will sell it if someone really forces me to but these days I will try to stear them to the internet and to build up a steady income that compares to what we are discussing here without risking anything (much). Many times lately, I had someone try to buy the course off me and I talked them out of giving me thousands for personal instruction in options day trading and into a $25 internet product instead of which I make only one single dollar profit. All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate. I've never ripped anyone off or had any intentions of anything other than to share my knowledge. I've sold hundreds and honoured 6 refunds (only had 8 requests). If it was a waste of money and valueless I would have heard by now. Fact is nearly everyone who buys my stuff is (more than) happy with it. That speaks for itself. 

I am going to stand fast though and defend slanderous allegations to the end I will respond if you guys attack me but I think I'm proven my case and made all my points. Any futher posts will only be re-shashing older posts. Shall we drop it?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> please point out where i said YOU doctor the statements.
> 
> Please see someone in regards to your anger and reality management it is obviously affecting your enjoyment of this fine site.
> 
> nothing smart **** about my comments , the forums here no need for links to a *questionable* website , just post the trades here in real time.
> 
> anything else?




lol  read your posts.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Like I said, try telling that to the poor trader who has to sell their house because the stop losses didn't hold.




Ahhhh the overnight risk ruse. Why do you continue to use this fallacious logic?

Aren't be talking day trading FFS?


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate.  ?




so i take it you will be providing live entrys/exits/analysis/trade ideas on this fine forum now then in the future?

would you like me to create your own personal thread?

did vicki or others here get a refund? as she/they sounded somewhat annoyed/ripped off by your course.

it great that your here for humanity instead of personal gain and look forward to you helping here so the newbies can benefit instead of getting ripped off on outrageous fees and questionable practises by ppl in the future.

amen


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Ahhhh the overnight risk ruse. Why do you continue to use this fallacious logic?
> 
> Aren't be talking day trading FFS?




Because it's true as explained to me by several brokers. There was a time when I was considering using CFDs to trade the same signals I use for day trading so I looked into it and asked for the real risks. They were explained to me (about how I was definitely responsible for the entire trade) but when people say to me "_what about CFDs?_" (just like you just did) I always say "_I'm not able to advise you on CFDs - ask your broker and make your own comparisons_".  

My brokers have all said the same thing and that is what I believe. If it's wrong, fine but then several different brokers have all been wrong in the exact same way. I'm not sure but I know enough to stay well away and to trade with my own money which is what I prefer. If CFDs work better for you that's fine. There are lots of ways to make money on the stock market. Mine is just one of them. 

Not sure what your last sentence means - sorry.


----------



## sails

builder2818 said:


> I am confused on this part......isn't quoting minimum margins what you would be looking at from a risk management point of view? If I had a 50c spread and picked up 18c premium, I am risking 32c. Over 10 contracts I am risking $3200 of my $5000 to make $1800.
> 
> I traded a NCM bear call spread when it was around $35.90 a few months ago and it shot up to nearly $40 during that months trade. I sold the $36 calls and bought the $36.50 for 10 contracts. I lost my $3200 knowing that's all I was risking. Am I missing something here?




Builder, I think it is far more realistic to work on return on capital because it is the account size that determines how much one is willing to risk in the first place.  For example, lets say you have a $100,000 account and you were willing to risk 3.2% ($3,200) with your NCM bear call spread.  

You lose 3.2% of your capital if you lose the max risk.
You have a return on capital of 1.8% if you win the max amount.

When spruikers brag about these impressive high percentage winners based on risk, most people immediately think of return on capital and is the reason many of them part with their hard earned cash to "learn" how to get these high percentages for their account.  However, no one in their right mind will risk their entire account on one trade - so it makes these returns based on risk alone well removed from reality.


----------



## SmellyTerror

Maybe I can translate.

Mr Stacy – assume that I assume that you’re totally honest and up front.

You must nevertheless understand that the world contains a large number of shonks.

These shonks can suck in investors by posting fake results.

The only way we can tell the difference between shonks and legitimate folk (like you) is for trades to be posted LIVE – that is, post your entry pretty much the moment it happens and – crucially – before you exit. Post your exit the moment it happens too.

Obviously difficult for very short-term trading, but do-able – particularly if you can post a stop order before it’s hit, or a brief summary of what you’re going to do immediately before it happens. Failing that, you can always offer to talk someone here through some trades as they happen over Skype or something else that’s live.

Surely you can see it’s reasonable that people here are wary of shocks. Even if you’re NOT one, they exist, and we have one and only one way to tell the difference: live trades.

So… can you give us some live trades?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> so i take it you will be providing live entrys/exits/analysis/trade ideas on this fine forum now then in the future?




No, why would I? 



nunthewiser said:


> did vicki or others here get a refund? as she/they sounded somewhat annoyed/ripped off by your course.




She was not ripped off at all. I was not an owner when all that happened anyway. I think (without knowing the exact dates) I was doing my own thing  by then. But I'm pretty sure no course in the world will guarantee that you will not lose money if you ignore all the advice...lol



nunthewiser said:


> it great that your here for humanity instead of personal gain and look forward to you helping here so the newbies can benefit instead of getting ripped off on outrageous fees and questionable practises by ppl in the future.
> 
> amen




I'll help if people are civil to me. Sure.


----------



## prawn_86

LMAO.

This thread has greatly brightened up my Sunday arvo. Thanks to all the participants. 

I guess it will keep going until someone either 'Puts up, or shuts up' to use an old phrase.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Because it's true as explained to me by several brokers. There was a time when I was considering using CFDs to trade the same signals I use for day trading so I looked into it and asked for the real risks. They were explained to me (about how I was definitely responsible for the entire trade) but when people say to me "_what about CFDs?_" (just like you just did) I always say "_I'm not able to advise you on CFDs - ask your broker and make your own comparisons_".
> 
> My brokers have all said the same thing and that is what I believe. If it's wrong, fine but then several different brokers have all been wrong in the exact same way. I'm not sure but I know enough to stay well away and to trade with my own money which is what I prefer. If CFDs work better for you that's fine. There are lots of ways to make money on the stock market. Mine is just one of them.
> 
> Not sure what your last sentence means - sorry.




If you don't understand that you are selling a *daytrading *system, then I don't quite know where to go next with you.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Nope. You got it in one.



 Yep you got it. Now you can sell to the masses. 



builder2818 said:


> I am confused on this part......isn't quoting minimum margins what you would be looking at from a risk management point of view? If I had a 50c spread and picked up 18c premium, I am risking 32c. Over 10 contracts I am risking $3200 of my $5000 to make $1800.




Its a hideous sneaking grubby little game that snake oilers play thou isn't it?
They quote, to use your example, a return of 56% ($1800 profit from $3200 traded). What that does is suck in all the newbies with low capital base dreaming of telling the boss to stick it because they are off to trade full time on $20,000 capital.

When the real truth is a full time trader would need somewhere around the $150,000 capital(bog standard money management 2% max loss stuff . And as I have argued many times a day trader should be around 1.0% to 0.5% loss per trade max). 

If I have $100,000 in my account as a full time futures day trader and make one trade where I profit $1000 yet the broker only requires $5000 margin whats my return on that single trade? 20%?(return on margin) or 1%? (return on capital).

Snake oilers always quote the 20%. Full time traders who have been in the biz always quote the 1% because they know its impossible to live the dream on minimum margin. Scamers sell the dream on minimum margin.

EDIT<> LOL Or see Sails reply.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Many times lately, I had someone try to buy the course off me and I talked them out of giving me thousands for personal instruction in options day trading and into a $25 internet product instead of which I make only one single dollar profit. All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate. I've never ripped anyone off or had any intentions of anything other than to share my knowledge.




This is what YOU wrote



nunthewiser said:


> so i take it you will be providing live entrys/exits/analysis/trade ideas on this fine forum now then in the future?
> 
> would you like me to create your own personal thread?
> 
> .
> 
> it great that your here for humanity instead of personal gain and look forward to you helping here so the newbies can benefit instead of getting ripped off on outrageous fees and questionable practises by ppl in the future.
> 
> amen






OneDayWealth said:


> No, why would I?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Because of this 



> All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate. I've never ripped anyone off or had any intentions of anything other than to share my knowledge




This brings me back to my original post where you called me vomit ( or along them lines) where i stated i noticed how many contradictions appeared everytime you posted ....

you really are good at this smokescreen game dude.

now im totally confused , are you here to help or not? 

or have you changed you mind again?


----------



## builder2818

Trembling Hand said:


> Yep you got it. quote
> 
> 
> 
> Its a hideous sneaking grubby little game that snake oilers play thou isn't it?
> They quote, to use your example, a return of 56% ($1800 profit from $3200 traded). What that does is suck in all the newbies with low capital base dreaming of telling the boss to stick it because they are off to trade full time on $20,000 capital.
> 
> When the real truth is a full time trader would need somewhere around the $150,000 capital(bog standard money management 2% max loss stuff . And as I have argued many times a day trader should be around 1.0% to 0.5% loss per trade max).
> 
> If I have $100,000 in my account as a full time futures day trader and make one trade where I profit $1000 yet the broker only requires $5000 margin whats my return on that single trade? 20%?(return on margin) or 1%? (return on capital).
> 
> Snake oilers always quote the 20%. Full time traders who have been in the biz always quote the 1% because they know its impossible to live the dream on minimum margin. Scamers sell the dream on minimum margin.
> 
> EDIT<> LOL Or see Sails reply.




Thanks TH, I know now what you mean. The snake oil salesman wouldn't be quoting my loss on that trade then - a whopping 64% loss on my trade if you qoute it the same way they do for their "winning" trades.


----------



## OneDayWealth

SmellyTerror said:


> Maybe I can translate.
> 
> Mr Stacy – assume that I assume that you’re totally honest and up front.
> 
> You must nevertheless understand that the world contains a large number of shonks.
> 
> These shonks can suck in investors by posting fake results.
> 
> The only way we can tell the difference between shonks and legitimate folk (like you) is for trades to be posted LIVE – that is, post your entry pretty much the moment it happens and – crucially – before you exit. Post your exit the moment it happens too.
> 
> Obviously difficult for very short-term trading, but do-able – particularly if you can post a stop order before it’s hit, or a brief summary of what you’re going to do immediately before it happens. Failing that, you can always offer to talk someone here through some trades as they happen over Skype or something else that’s live.
> 
> Surely you can see it’s reasonable that people here are wary of shocks. Even if you’re NOT one, they exist, and we have one and only one way to tell the difference: live trades.
> 
> So… can you give us some live trades?




Sorry but no and for reasons you have outlined. There is no time to stop and post and I don't use "stops" I just trade what I see and sometimes that requires crack reflexes. I will not even answer the phone while trading (big mistake from new traders is getting distracted while trading) and besides I'm not trying to sell my course to you guys. I'm just here defending my honour. 

But it's true, there are shonks out there which is kind of the reason why I exist as an educator. I suffered as well by (not shonky but) mostly incomplete courses but I get something from them all and they all added up to create my "feelings" which I use to trade. I started to teach and sell my information so that new people would not suffer insane losses for no good reason. A stock suddenly going against me is sometimes unavoidable but making a silly or stupid avoidable mistake is something all together different and that's my buzz. Making sure people know what they are doing and how to do it. 

But I have nothing to prove here. Options move daily - anyone can tell you that. Buying is simple, selling is simple. The whole method/strategy is simple. All that's left is to time it correctly and that is pretty hard to teach though I do offer as many insights into what patterns I like as I can to my members. My exact layouts and procedures are also very helpful so I go through those in amazing detail that has been commended many times. Comments like "At last! Someone who tells us exactly how to do something" are very common - I'm sorry to say. 

The trades I post are real trades documented with real facts, if people don't believe facts (that can be verified) then there's not much I can do and I'd prefer to sit back and watch foxtel or work on my cars to be frank. I had to prove myself when I started but my record stands strong and has done for many years which is why I get so offended when people call me a crook. I'm not a crook, I'm just trying to help people by providing real help that will be useful to make real money. 

If there's a way we can make thousands of dollars a week without risking any money or going to a job I would love to hear it.


----------



## sails

builder2818 said:


> Thanks TH, I know now what you mean. The snake oil salesman wouldn't be quoting my loss on that trade then - a whopping 64% loss on my trade if you qoute it the same way they do for their "winning" trades.




Yep, now you've really got it...


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> ...
> When the real truth is a full time trader would need somewhere around the $150,000 capital...




Bull. That's the sort of rubbish that keeps people believing the crap that you need so much money to day trade and kills people's dreams for no good reason. Maybe if you are buying shares which I would never do. 

I have proven dozens and dozens of times over many years that you can make heaps day trading options and you don't need anywhere NEAR 100k. I know that upsets a few people but there's not much I can do about it. The truth is the truth.

And please stop lumping me in with snake oil salesmen! I teach a real skill that works and I'm damn proud of it. If you have a hard time believing that then fine you have your own problems to deal with but that's not me.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Bull. That's the sort of rubbish that keeps people believing the crap that you need so much money to day trade. Maybe if you are buying shares which I would never do.
> 
> I have proven dozens and dozens of times over many years that you can make heaps day trading options and you don't need anywhere NEAR 100k. I know that upsets a few people but there's not much I can do about it. The truth is the truth.
> 
> And please stop lumping me in with snake oil salesmen! I teach a real skill that works and I'm damn proud of it. If you have a hard time believing that then fine you have your own problems to deal with but that's not me.




Whats the average loss per trade in dollar terms your clients would take on a $20,000 account. And whats a reasonable win rate buddy?


----------



## prawn_86

Ok then Bill, if you wont post your live trades how about this:

Give one member here your course for free and see if they can emulate your 'results'

This thread is not going to go away until you either prove you can do what you say (which you have not done, all talk no action so far), or you simply stop responding.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> I have proven dozens and dozens of times over many years that you can make heaps day trading options and you don't need anywhere NEAR 100k.  .




Actually you have not proven anything yet as the hindsight "statements"provided can easily be doctored as pointed out by some sensible fellow earlier in this thread.

now why not prove it as requested by posting trades here on a live basis because until such time that happens my belief is that there maybe a SCAM happening and we all should be aware of these internet snake oil scam artists.

its the simplest and easiest way to show the world you got the goods


----------



## nunthewiser

Could you please answer post 190 as i am still confused on the actual sincerity of your prescense here

Thanks in advance


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> ...If there's a way we can make thousands of dollars a week without risking any money or going to a job I would love to hear it.




I think you've found it - charge a few grand per student...

Most of us here would have trouble sleeping at night though.

You accused me of being cynical earlier today.  If being cynical helps a newbie with limited capital look more closely at what they are getting into instead of being baited with impressive returns based only on risk, they any "cynicism" has done it's job.

While generally self taught in the business of options, I have been caught with the snake oil salesmen and parted with a few $K for a supposed options education some years ago - which actually amounted to no more than option kindergarten, IMO.  I have found that baiting people with "secrets" and high percentage returns based on risk is common in this line of business.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Whats the average loss in dollar terms your clients would take on a $20,000 account. And whats a reasonable win rate buddy?




Not sure. Never measured the average loss. I don't collect and analyse everyone's trades. I have better things to do with my time. 

Win/loss rates only apply and are relevant when the losses and wins are all the exact same amount. By that I mean that every win is the same size and every loss is the same size. Profits and losses vary wildly depending on the discipline of the trade (as I'm sure you know). 

I can tell you though that I expect a disciplined and practiced options day trader to make 5-10% 2 or 3 times a week. Much more if they are already an expert technical analyst. 

I prefer that people take no more than 10% loss ever and to pull out no matter what you think a trade is going to do if you have lost 15% or more. I know that's much shorter than most option strategies but there is no way a 30% loss (what FFI and many others teach) could be used with this method. 

I even go so far as to suggest that unless a trade takes off immediately (or within 10 minutes) you should exit. I also suggest that you let all profits run (as usual) to help build as much of a buffer as possible. The best way to trade is not with saved or borrowed money but with profits so I suggest no profits be taken (spent) until you have a buffer of at least the max preferred loss and preferably a full doubled bank and then only trade the ASX money and put your own away back in the bank.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Ok then Bill, if you wont post your live trades how about this:
> 
> Give one member here your course for free and see if they can emulate your 'results'
> 
> This thread is not going to go away until you either prove you can do what you say (which you have not done, all talk no action so far), or you simply stop responding.




Why don't you give _your _course away for free? I have proven myself dozens if not hundreds of times already. You are choosing not to see it and AGAIN with the doctoring accusations! You are sailing really close - STOP IT!!!

All talk and no action? What the hell are you talking about? If you can not see the truth right in front of you then I feel sorry for you. I am ONLY here to defend myself against lies and false allegations and slanderous comments and insinuations. If someopne wants to ask me a sensible (respectful) question I will respond.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> Could you please answer post 190 as i am still confused on the actual sincerity of your prescense here
> 
> Thanks in advance





I've answered that about 6 times already. Read the posts.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth;595584 To Vicky said:
			
		

> EVER [/B]*take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not. *
> 
> 
> Was I not *always *telling you to close your trades when a reasonable amount of profit was available?
> 
> 
> 
> .




That is what you said



OneDayWealth said:


> I even go so far as to suggest that unless a trade takes off immediately (or within 10 minutes) you should exit. I also suggest that you let all profits run (as usual) to help build as much of a buffer as possible.  .




Maaaaate .... that vomit is sure Contradictory.

I am getting more confused by the minute.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Not sure. Never measured the average loss. I don't collect and analyse everyone's trades. I have better things to do with my time.
> 
> Win/loss rates only apply and are relevant when the losses and wins are all the exact same amount. By that I mean that every win is the same size and every loss is the same size. Profits and losses vary wildly depending on the discipline of the trade (as I'm sure you know).



OMG! Are you kidding me? You don't know what margin is and now you come up with this rubbish.



OneDayWealth said:


> I prefer that people take no more than 10% loss ever and to pull out no matter what you think a trade is going to do if you have lost 15% or more. I know that's much shorter than most option strategies but there is no way a 30% loss (what FFI and many others teach) could be used with this method.



What 15% of capital or 15% of margin. Whats the position sizing model you are teaching?



OneDayWealth said:


> I even go so far as to suggest that unless a trade takes off immediately (or within 10 minutes) you should exit.



 and with ASX option your going to be churning the hell out of your account paying expensive brokerage and getting stung BIG TIME on the spread. You're really not serious are you?



OneDayWealth said:


> I also suggest that you let all profits run (as usual) to help build as much of a buffer as possible. The best way to trade is not with saved or borrowed money but with profits so I suggest no profits be taken (spent) until you have a buffer of at least the max preferred loss and preferably a full doubled bank and then only trade the ASX money and put your own away back in the bank.



 Oh god I can hardly be bothered..... anyone else


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> That is what you said
> 
> 
> 
> Maaaaate .... that vomit is sure Contradictory.
> 
> I am getting more confused by the minute.




In the first quote I'm talking about Put Spreads and the last one I'm talking about Day Trading Options. Two completely different strategies. 

Context.  Don't try to trip me up. There is nothing to trip up on. My truth shall stand all your scrutiny because it's the truth.


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> ...  My truth shall stand all your scrutiny because it's the truth.




Bill, without posting live trades to back up your claims, you are asking people just to trust you which is not going to happen with so many shonks around.

And hindsight trades won't cut the mustard as it is too easy to pick which ones to leave out.

What have you got to lose by posting live trades?


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Context.  Don't try to trip me up. There is nothing to trip up on. My truth shall stand all your scrutiny because it's the truth.




According to you ONLY.

not that you have any financial incentive in bleating that your above board and merely the victim here 

Still no Proof been shown other than *questionable*hindsight statements so far.

anyhoo bollocks to it .bored now and frankly bored with arguing with yet another dime a dozen salesman that maybe selling nothing but a story to the uninformed

have a great day


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> OMG! Are you kidding me? You don't know what margin is and now you come up with this rubbish.




OMG are YOU kidding ME?! 

How can you compare apples to oranges? If one loss is $10 and the next loss is $500 and one win is $1,000 and the next win is $2,000 how can you possibly compare one loss with another. The ratio is 50:50 (two wins and two losses) but the results could not possibly ever be compared. 



Trembling Hand said:


> What 15% of capital or 15% of margin. Whats the position sizing model you are teaching?




There is no margin when you buy a straight option. I'll get you a link to the ASX booklet. It might help explain it to you in a way that you understand. I buy with cash. I own the entire option.   



Trembling Hand said:


> and with ASX option your going to be churning the hell out of your account paying expensive brokerage and getting stung BIG TIME on the spread. You're really not serious are you?




I don't give a rat's how much brokerage I pay. The only thing I'm interested in is making money. As soon as I make $2,000 (after brokerage) I could care if the brokerage is $1.00 or $1,000. I just made $2,000 and that's all I care about. 



Trembling Hand said:


> Oh god I can hardly be bothered..... anyone else




What now?! You don't advise letting profits run? Or is it that you don't believe options change in value during the day? Which fact don't you believe?


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> Bill, without posting live trades to back up your claims, you are asking people just to trust you which is not going to happen with so many shonks around.
> 
> And hindsight trades won't cut the mustard as it is too easy to pick which ones to leave out.
> 
> What have you got to lose by posting live trades?




That's cool. Again, I'm not interested in selling a course here just defending myself against stupid defaming and slanderous comments and besides, I've posted heaps of real trades.  

Again, there are REAL trades (NOT just a few hindsight trades which are used to illustrate the power and movement of daily option prices). I have posted real live trades heaps of times and they have been up on my forum for all to see for years (I did them for real, really, truthfully, I swear on my dead fathers grave!) that prove all my points. 

I already answered why I can not post real trades while I'm doing them and even if I did I'm SURE one of you guys would find something stupid to say about it or it won't be enough "_anyone can pull one flukey trade off - let's see you do another one_". Then when I do another one it would be called a "lucky streak" and then when I post a whole weeks worth it'll be claimed as a lucky run and then when I post all year I'll get "_you're a freak - no one else can trade like you_" or my favourite lame saying "anytone can make a profit in this market"...and it goes on...and on...and on. Been there done that. 

There is a very simple way to prove that day trading options works...take a look at them moving during the day and take out your calculator. It's like you are asking me to prove that trading shares/stocks works. Of course it does! What's to prove?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Bill you are the least knowledgeable "trader" in this whole thread. 

You are clueless about basic expectancy, margin, position sizing, cost of instruments to trade, risk, money management & trading metrics. 

Do you mind if I join your program and  document it all live on my blog?


----------



## GumbyLearner

nunthewiser said:


> anyhoo bollocks to it .bored now and frankly bored with arguing with yet another dime a dozen salesman




I agree nun. 

Plenty of shonks out there. I like the response of a highly successful millionaire in the book - *The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secret's of Americas Weathy by Dr.Stanley & Dr. Danko* 

You know the guy who got so sick and tired of being cold-canvassed by Financial Planners, Brokers & Hedge Funds et al. That he would request evidence of their returns for the last 5 financial years, and if they made better returns than he was able he was more than happy to do business with them. 

Not one was willing to "put-up" the bonafides of their returns.   

Although a little outdated a fascinating read and certainly contains many facts about how people can succeed. Also, details a lot of myths about wealth accumulation and who the real rich are. Frugal hard workers generally. 

Here's an excerpt

http://www.powells.com/biblio?show=TRADE PAPER:USED:9780671015206:4.95&page=excerpt


----------



## builder2818

GumbyLearner said:


> I agree nun.
> 
> Plenty of shonks out there. I like the response of a highly successful millionaire in the book - *The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secret's of Americas Weathy by Dr.Stanley & Dr. Danko*
> 
> You know the guy who got so sick and tired of being cold-canvassed by Financial Planners, Brokers & Hedge Funds et al. That he would request evidence of their returns for the last 5 financial years, and if they made better returns than he was able he was more than happy to do business with them.
> 
> Not one was willing to "put-up" the bonafides of their returns.
> 
> Although a little outdated a fascinating read and certainly contains many facts about how people can succeed. Also, details a lot of myths about wealth accumulation and who the real rich are. Frugal hard workers generally.
> 
> Here's an excerpt
> 
> http://www.powells.com/biblio?show=TRADE PAPER:USED:9780671015206:4.95&page=excerpt




Just downloaded it, thanks for posting about it....sounds like a good book to read.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Bill you are the least knowledgeable "trader" in this whole thread.
> 
> You are clueless about basic expectancy, margin, position sizing, cost of instruments to trade, risk, money management & trading metrics.
> 
> Do you mind if I join your program and  document it all live on my blog?





Yeah well, you're looking real good right now too. Ho cares about all the stuff I don't know? I'm the one making money so you study and make sure you know all the terms that are useless to me as an options day trader and I'll just keep doing what I do. I can guarantee you there are millions of others things I don't know either. We could sit here and list millions of things I don't know but there is one thing I do know and that's exactly how to day trade options and I've been doing it for years. 

Hang on, let me see if I got this right. You abuse me and then you want my course for free? Stylish. lol. 

If you buy the course I will sell it to you and you can post anything you like. It's a free country - as long as it's true - but something tells me you would not pay me anything just to spend a year proving me wrong (which you never will - options move in price - done, proven).


----------



## prawn_86

Trembling Hand said:


> Do you mind if I join your program and  document it all live on my blog?





Now that i would like to see!

You might just cut off his main income source by exposing him however TH


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Yeah well, you're looking real good right now too. Ho cares about all the stuff I don't know? I'm the one making money so you study and make sure you know all the terms that are useless to me as an options day trader and I'll just keep doing what I do. I can guarantee you there are millions of others things I don't know either. We could sit here and list millions of things I don't know but there is one thing I do know and that's exactly how to day trade options and I've been doing it for years.
> 
> Hang on, let me see if I got this right. You abuse me and then you want my course for free? Stylish. lol.
> 
> If you buy the course I will sell it to you and you can post anything you like. It's a free country - as long as it's true - but something tells me you would not pay me anything just to spend a year proving me wrong (which you never will - options move in price - done, proven).




You are a dangerous fool. FFS!! You cannot even tell me how much of the $20,000 capital I should lose on a bad trade to survive to live the dream that your selling? Why cannot you even post the MOST basic of money management guide lines?


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Now that i would like to see!
> 
> You might just cut off his main income source by exposing him however TH





Seriously dude. You have no idea what you are talking about. 

Expose? Expose what?! Don't you believe that options exist? Don't you believe that option prices move? Which part of reality is escaping you? Give it a break man! You have nothing, you say nothing you add nothing. You destroy and cut down and you are the worst type of poster I can imagine. One who adds nothing yet tears down everyone. I've dealt with heaps of people like you. You aren't worth dealing with.

Edited to remove (deserved) personal abuse.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> You are a dangerous fool. FFS!! You cannot even tell me how much of the $20,000 capital I should lose on a bad trade to survive to live the dream that your selling? Why cannot you even post the MOST basic of money management guide lines?




No, I'm not a fool. Not in this context anyway. 

I answered your question several posts ago.


----------



## Trembling Hand

I asked this







Trembling Hand said:


> What 15% of capital or 15% of margin. Whats the position sizing model you are teaching?



You gave me this rubbish, Just LOL clueless rubbish!!





OneDayWealth said:


> There is no margin when you buy a straight option. I'll get you a link to the ASX booklet. It might help explain it to you in a way that you understand. I buy with cash. I own the entire option.



http://www.asx.com.au/opc/OpcStart


But one bad point at a time,


HOW MUCH MAX DO YOU TELL YOUR CLIENTS IS A MAX LOSS ON THEIR $20,000 to live the dream per trade???????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> I asked thisYou gave me this rubbish, Just LOL clueless rubbish!!
> 
> http://www.asx.com.au/opc/OpcStart
> 
> 
> But one bad point at a time,
> 
> HOW MUCH MAX DO YOU TELL YOUR CLIENTS IS A MAX LOSS ON THEIR $20,000 to live the dream per trade???????????????????????????????????????????????????




Don't call me clueless, idiot! You guys are sooo brave behind your keyboards. I bet not one of you would ever speak to me like this to my face. 

If you're not going to read my responses then what's the point? Or should I add a million question marks as well...lol

That picture you spent so much time preparing means nothing. Ther is NO marging when you buy an option outright. How else can I explain it so you will understand. Yes there is a margin calculator for when you need to calculate margins. NONE of which is revelant to day trading options.


----------



## IFocus

OneDayWealth said:


> Yeah well, you're looking real good right now too. Ho cares about all the stuff I don't know? I'm the one making money so you study and make sure you know all the terms that are useless to me as an options day trader and I'll just keep doing what I do. I can guarantee you there are millions of others things I don't know either. We could sit here and list millions of things I don't know but there is one thing I do know and that's exactly how to day trade options and I've been doing it for years.
> 
> Hang on, let me see if I got this right. You abuse me and then you want my course for free? Stylish. lol.
> 
> If you buy the course I will sell it to you and you can post anything you like. It's a free country - as long as it's true - but something tells me you would not pay me anything just to spend a year proving me wrong (which you never will - options move in price - done, proven).




Interesting, you have been trading 6 years and you are charging people thousands of $ for courses and don't understand or know the basics that TH mentioned fascinating. 

Suggest you could Google up "risk of ruin" as a starting point.


----------



## sails

OneDayWealth said:


> ...There is a very simple way to prove that day trading options works...take a look at them moving during the day and take out your calculator. It's like you are asking me to prove that trading shares/stocks works. Of course it does! What's to prove?




Exactly what I have done.  

Over a reasonable period of time, I have closely watched option chains to see how they move through the day to establish if there was any decent opportunity.  However, I found that slippage, IV loss and brokerage usually didn't make them a good risk to reward strategy. 

I do buy options for potential directional moves, but not with the intent of day trading.  They usually last a few days to get exposure to overnight moves and the risk to reward is significantly improved than the few cents you are taking out of daytrades.


----------



## OneDayWealth

IFocus said:


> Interesting, you have been trading 6 years and you are charging people thousands of $ for courses and don't understand or know the basics that TH mentioned fascinating.
> 
> Suggest you could Google up "risk of ruin" as a starting point.




I understand what I need to understand. Any dunderhead can know stuff but it takes guts to actually do something. I did something and I'm helping heaps of other people as well. I'm happy and I can't believe that for a stock market forum you guys don't believe that an option gains and drops in value and that someone figure out how to make money from buying and selling them. 

What on earth is the big mystery. I am in hysterics here and so are a lot of others who are watching this incredible baseless attack. Every one is laughing out loud at you guys. Seriously...buy a calculator and get lives! 

Options move daily. I trade that movement. What the **** is so hard to understand about that? I'm gob-smacked at the ignorance of you guys. You are supposed to be knowledgeable traders and yet you find something that happens every single trading day impossible right in front of your eyes to believe. Aren't you all embarrassed? You can't all be that thick - surely.


----------



## nunthewiser

You have not provided any proof that you even trade Billy.(except hindsight MAYBE doctored statements that any clown can produce given 10 mins)

The forum has offered you the opportunity to show your self proclaimed skills in the form of space to post up some live trading entrys/exits.

You refused.

Looks pretty dodgy from here.

Hopefully these silly outbursts of yours may warn anymore prospective newbies to stay away and go find a more reputable source for help.

The only thing you have proven in this thread is that you are an emotional , bad tempered, smoke and mirrors kind of operator.

Hopefully others will see it also.

Oh and yeah. i AM the sort of fella that would say this to your face also..... A few here have met me personally and i am far from a shrinkin violet hiding behind a keyboard darl.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> Exactly what I have done.
> 
> Over a reasonable period of time, I have closely watched option chains to see how they move through the day to establish if there was any decent opportunity.  However, I found that slippage, IV loss and brokerage usually didn't make them a good risk to reward strategy.
> 
> I do buy options for potential directional moves, but not with the intent of day trading.  They usually last a few days to get exposure to overnight moves and the risk to reward is significantly improved than the few cents you are taking out of daytrades.




Have you ever bought an option during the day that you COULD have sold for a profit that day? Of course. That's what I trade. Maybe I'm being too harsh on you all. Maybe it's news to you all that options can actually be day traded. Let me give you all the benefit of the doubt one last time. Take my word for it. There IS a way to day trade options. It requires a few special layouts and to know where to look but take it from me. This is not only possible but I and many others have been doing it for years. 

In fact if you guys are all so knowledgeable the title of my course should be enough to switch on your lights. 

It IS possible. Trust me. It is. Forget buying my course. Tomorrow pick the top ten stocks, throw up some options and charts and check out the in the money options for the current and next month and you will see something amazing. Not only do they move but they can move a LOT! If I had you guys all in a room I would amaze you with what's going on out there...if you know where to look. 

Stop bashing the new drop in guy and take a look before you miss it. This is an opportunity for you all to crank up your returns and I can tell you that you technical chartists will clean up! 

Stop, think, suspend your disbelief and you will find something amazing. You don't even need my course you have been given enough information just in this thread to do it and probably better than me.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> You have not provided any proof that you even trade Billy.(except hindsight MAYBE doctored statements that any clown can produce given 10 mins)
> 
> The forum has offered you the opportunity to show your self proclaimed skills.
> 
> You refused.
> 
> Looks pretty dodgy from here.
> 
> Hopefully these silly outbursts of yours may warn anymore prospective newbies to stay away and go find a more reputable source for help.
> 
> The only thing you have proven in this thread is that you are an emotional , bad tempered, smoke and mirrors kind of operator.
> 
> Hopefully others will see it also.




AGAIN with the acusations!!! I'm REALLY getting sick of you. Really really really sick of you and your gutless accusations. You are dead in the head. STOP TALKING!!! 

I have offered you plenty of real proof. Yes, I'm bad tempered when people are accusing me of being a crook. Are you dead? Wouldn't you be upset if you were falsley accused and for your information I have offered proof to this forum before (read the posts!!). You are just too stupid and cynical to accept it. 

You are offering nothing to this thread and I presume to this world. You know nothing, you do nothing, you say nothing and you are worth nothing.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> Oh and yeah. i AM the sort of fella that would say this to your face also..... A few here have met me personally and i am far from a shrinkin violet hiding behind a keyboard darl.




Really, I'd LOVE to see that!


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> AGAIN with the acusations!!! I'm REALLY getting sick of you. Really really really sick of you and your gutless accusations. You are dead in the head. STOP TALKING!!!
> 
> I have offered you plenty of real proof. Yes, I'm bad tempered when people are accusing me of being a crook. Are you dead? Wouldn't you be upset if you were falsley accused and for your information I have offered proof to this forum before (read the posts!!). You are just too stupid and cynical to accept it.
> 
> You are offering nothing to this thread and I presume to this world. You know nothing, you do nothing, you say nothing and you are worth nothing.




No proof given other than MAYBE doctored hindsight statements Billy .

No better go get a bex and lay down champ .you seem a lil upset that no one here believing your self proclaimed dribble without any ACTUAL live proof....

what i would give to be a fly on ya wall watching you going purple and stomping around in ya hissy fit 

Do you even trade Billy? or just sell Stories of bullsheet to people for an exhorbitant fee?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> No proof given other than MAYBE doctored hindsight statements Billy .
> 
> No better go get a bex and lay down champ .you seem a lil upset that no one here believing your self proclaimed dribble without any ACTUAL live proof....
> 
> what i would give to be a fly on ya wall watching you going purple and stomping around in ya hissy fit
> 
> Do you even trade Billy? or just sell Stories of bullsheet to people for an exhorbitant fee?




I live in Adelaide. Let's meet. We'll have a nice coffee and I'll provide you with all the "proof" you need.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> I live in Adelaide. Let's meet. We'll have a nice coffee and I'll provide you with all the "proof" you need.




I live in WA 

Bring it with ya.

I,ll supply the coffee

my previous posts stand until PROVEN otherwise


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> I live in WA
> 
> Bring it with ya.
> 
> I,ll supply the coffee
> 
> my previous posts stand until PROVEN otherwise




Gladly! I have offered you plenty of proof. You are just too blind to see it and will just resort to some rubbish low comment that you think makes you look smart. It makes you look dumb and stupid. There's proof on my forum moron. I've told you that a million farking times!!! Are you really that thick? Is it possible for someone to be that thick?


----------



## prawn_86

Bill, Who or What is Ashmax?

As far as i can tell your site is simply an affiliate/reseller for 'AshMax' meaning you would get a % of every $ you refer that way. In fact the more i look into it the more it seems to be a pyramid scheme.

So not only are you promoting an options course in which you seem to have very limited knowledge or proof, you are also reselling a pyramid scheme? 

Could be wrong though...


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Bill, Who or What is Ashmax?
> 
> As far as i can tell your site is simply an affiliate/reseller for 'AshMax' meaning you would get a % of every $ you refer that way. In fact the more i look into it the more it seems to be a pyramid scheme.
> 
> So not only are you promoting an options course in which you seem to have very limited knowledge or proof, you are also reselling a pyramid scheme?
> 
> Could be wrong though...




Nope. Not a pyramid (aren't they illegal?). It's just commission sales. They sell domain names and website services. Let's not bring that into this thread. 

And please stop saying I have little proof when I have offered plenty of it already. That's getting really old. Would I still be here playing with you kids if I was a crook? Seriously. 

Options move. I trade the movement. What's the big problem? I'm stunned at the ignorance of some of you guys.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Gladly! I have offered you plenty of proof. You are just too blind to see it and will just resort to some rubbish low comment that you think makes you look smart. It makes you look dumb and stupid. There's proof on my forum moron. I've told you that a million farking times!!! Are you really that thick? Is it possible for someone to be that thick?




No Billy you have only offered maybe fabricated hindsight statements as proof dear.

I think you have issues darl.

Do you even trade?

I saw a show on tv once about this guy that was running a scam on the internet, sucking in hardworking people with promises of riches by buying his course...... apparantly it was a scam as the fella wasnt even a trader merely a smooth talking salesman.

do you even trade billy ? 

how about some live trades here billy ?

is that too hard billy? or would it perhaps expose something that you dont want exposed?

lol @ maybe fabricated hindsight statements as proof . geez ........what is the world coming to .....

oh. do you even trade billy?


----------



## lindsayf

_What on earth is the big mystery. I am in hysterics here and so are a lot of others who are watching this incredible baseless attack. Every one is laughing out loud at you guys. Seriously...buy a calculator and get lives! _

Is it possible that Billy has been able to recruit a few sycophants by his wily means who are now witnessing this exchange in full support of him?  If so then I serioulsy doubt any of them have seriously studied or practiced trading over an extended period of time...they have sworn ( temporary) allegiance  based on the degree to which they have been persuaded by his snake oil words, the idea of his (almost) promised returns and the 'power' of his personality and mystical abilities as a trader.  Its a shame for them but will be a lesson in the big picture.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> No Billy you have only offered maybe fabricated hindsight statements as proof dear.
> 
> I think you have issues darl.
> 
> Do you even trade?
> 
> I saw a show on tv once about this guy that was running a scam on the internet, sucking in hardworking people with promises of riches by buying his course...... apparantly it was a scam as the fella wasnt even a trader merely a smooth talking salesman.
> 
> do you even trade billy ?
> 
> how about some live trades here billy ?
> 
> is that too hard billy? or would it perhaps expose something that you dont want exposed?
> 
> lol @ maybe fabricated hindsight statements as proof . geez ........what is the world coming to .....
> 
> oh. do you even trade billy?




Billy, Billy, Billy. you are hilarious. 

*YES I TRADE EXACTLY WHAT I TEACH. My statements are NOT doctored!! *



lindsayf said:


> _What on earth is the big mystery. I am in hysterics here and so are a lot of others who are watching this incredible baseless attack. Every one is laughing out loud at you guys. Seriously...buy a calculator and get lives! _
> 
> Is it possible that Billy has been able to recruit a few sycophants by his wily means who are now witnessing this exchange in full support of him?  If so then I serioulsy doubt any of them have seriously studied or practiced trading over an extended period of time...they have sworn ( temporary) allegiance  based on the degree to which they have been persuaded by his snake oil words, the idea of his (almost) promised returns and the 'power' of his personality and mystical abilities as a trader.  Its a shame for them but will be a lesson in the big picture.




Billy? Who the hell is "Billy"? 

If you have nothing serious to add then just stay out of it. 

I've been day trading options since 2006 and teaching my method since 2007. I have hundreds of satisfied customers and your cheap shot tells us all about you.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Billy, Billy, Billy. you are hilarious.
> 
> *YES I TRADE EXACTLY WHAT I TEACH. My statements are NOT doctored!! *
> 
> 
> 
> .




How about proving it then billy.

as stated for the 14th time today 

i mean via live trades posted not MAYBE fabricated hindsight statements.

now Billy ... no need to get in a tither . its a simple request darl 

How about it ?


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> I've been day trading options since 2006 and teaching my method since 2007. I have hundreds of satisfied customers  .






LOL almost sounds like a danoz direct advert champ......

keep em coming ... you might convince someone soon

after all it IS the internet


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> How about proving it then billy.
> 
> as stated for the 14th time today
> 
> i mean via live trades posted not MAYBE fabricated hindsight statements.
> 
> now Billy ... no need to get in a tither . its a simple request darl
> 
> How about it ?




I already have.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> LOL almost sounds like a danoz direct advert champ......
> 
> keep em coming ... you might convince someone soon
> 
> after all it IS the internet




shut up


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> I already have.




A *Maybe* Fabricated hindsight statement is your idea of proof?

oh dear it must be llike takin candy from a baby if your prospective clients believe that sort of crap as proof ...


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> shut up




Why Billy?

hit a nerve?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> A *Maybe* Fabricated hindsight statement is your idea of proof?
> 
> oh dear it must be llike takin candy from a baby if your prospective clients believe that sort of crap as proof ...





Whatever. Open your eyes and look at the market for your proof.


----------



## nunthewiser

*PERSONALLY* i dont even think you trade billy.

but kudo,s for being able to spin an awesome fairytale


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> *PERSONALLY* i dont even think you trade billy.
> 
> but kudo,s for being able to spin an awesome fairytale




You're wrong. I've spoken nothing but the truth.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> You're wrong. I've spoken nothing but the truth.




about living in adelaide?

yeah i spose no one gunna lie about that.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> about living in adelaide?
> 
> yeah i spose no one gunna lie about that.




You are hilarious.


----------



## nunthewiser

But Billy ... its not all bad bro ....

In fact i must thank you actually...... you have given me inspiration

now i just gotta knock up a website, put out some flyers, and tell a fairytale .

Then i too can be rollin with da bigshots!

i,ll even throw in a tim tam with coffee


----------



## OneDayWealth

You are so sad. Then again, can't expect too much more from someone who hides behind a misnomer. Why don't you sign your posts with you full real name? I've got nothing to hide...what are you hiding I wonder?


----------



## nunthewiser

I wonder if all the poor hardworking folk out there that placed there trust in some of the scams and dodgy practises out there ever get any justice?

what ya reckon  billy?..they just take the cash and run? or drag it out a bit and maybe score some more?

seems like a good lil number actually.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Just stunning.

Mods, are we ready to close this thread yet?


----------



## nunthewiser

BRB billy ...... just gotta come up with a fancy name for this project......

"Wealthy One Day"

oh mate im a bloody natural!


----------



## OneDayWealth

Stupid stupid little man.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

One way to shut him up Bill. 

Post _more_ proof. 

I have looked through the thread, post #105 seems to be the only post with err....proof, although it didn't show any actual P&L numbers, just dots from a weeks worth of trades.  

It really amazes me why people like you, whether you're genuine or not, always chuck a wobbly when asked to provide proof/live trades. If your system works wonders, then do it. They shut up. Problem solved, you may win over some new customers(thought that would be a good thing). If not......then you grow a beard and move to Switzerland to open a book store. 

It's not that hard. If it really works, then show us. Maybe post what stocks you are about to take a trade in at least. Ideally show more than a months worth of trading statements, then all your tantrums and hissy fits can stop, because people won't pester you and question you about your methods. Simple.

Its no point saying to go to your site for proof, because this thread has been going on for 13 pages now and thats just not going to happen, and its no point raving on about how thick you think people are or how one can day trade options. Just. Post. More. Proof.....problem solvered.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ThingyMajiggy said:


> One way to shut him up Bill.
> 
> Post _more_ proof.
> 
> I have looked through the thread, post #105 seems to be the only post with err....proof, although it didn't show any actual P&L numbers, just dots from a weeks worth of trades.
> 
> It really amazes me why people like you, whether you're genuine or not, always chuck a wobbly when asked to provide proof/live trades. If your system works wonders, then do it. They shut up. Problem solved, you may win over some new customers(thought that would be a good thing). If not......then you grow a beard and move to Switzerland to open a book store.
> 
> It's not that hard. If it really works, then show us. Maybe post what stocks you are about to take a trade in at least. Ideally show more than a months worth of trading statements, then all your tantrums and hissy fits can stop, because people won't pester you and question you about your methods. Simple.




I have.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> I use delta only. The rest relate only to long term positions which I am not a fan of. If I am trading a $1.00 option and there is a .5 delta and I'm expecting the stock to move 20c or more then I know I'll get at least 5% maybe 10% which will be more than enough for me to make double the average Australian wage in one sitting and the most important thing is that all my money will be safe in the bank overnight so I can relax (a luxury few option traders ever experience), have an early night and look forward to a whole new universe the next day.




Isn't slippage alone in ASX ETO's at least 0.05-0.20 depending on the contract [assuming MM's are generous]?


----------



## builder2818

I am amazed how long this thread has run for, especially today alone. I was wondering the same myself if statements were going to be produced. Will keep refreshing the page though.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Isn't slippage in ASX ETO's at least 0.05-0.20 depending on the contract [being generous]?




Not sure but it doesn't matter when day trading options. 

Let's say I buy something for $1.00 and I'm happy to sell it for $1.10 and the stock moves a long way and now my option is worth $1.30 that's way more than I need so I don't mind selling it even to the market makers for a "rip off" price of $1.20 (it would be more like $1.27). I still made 27% which will be enough for me to have the rest of the week off. 

The big thing is to get a stock move. If it moves a normal amount you will make money. Usually more than enough.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

OneDayWealth said:


> I have.




Mate, be realistic. 

Can you please post a link or a post number to where this proof may be? As I said, I have only found post #105 to post what some might call "proof". But most people wouldn't. As I said, it can only be _beneficial_ to you if you do and your system works so wonderfully as you say, earning you "a few K/week". Why not prove it to people?? Doesn't make sense, you would rather babble and throw yourself on the ground for 13 pages arguing about it rather than just getting it done. Bizarre.


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> Not sure but it doesn't matter when day trading options.




Keep digging bro.

Slippage is one the most important considerations in terms of profitabililty.


----------



## OneDayWealth

builder2818 said:


> I am amazed how long this thread has run for, especially today alone. I was wondering the same myself if statements were going to be produced. Will keep refreshing the page though.




I tried to post a month's worth of statements when I was first attacked on this forum but (like I've said a few times now) they were removed and the thread was closed. 

I post real results on my forum but even if I provided a real live movie showing a real live actual trade I'm sure that the aboves will accuse me of doctoring that as well. Any statements I produce and I can produce years and years worth will also be accused of being doctored. I know how these types of guys work. The feed of the mysery of others and the reason is that others taking action and getting results makes them all uncomfortable because they clearly think they are better than me and if that's the case then why aren't they day trading options successfully. I show proof and it blows their minds so they have no comeback so they call me a crook and destroy my reputation because that makes them feel better about themselves. 

It's very sad and innocent people get harmed at no cost to them. A truely gutless act that should be frowned upon by all good people.


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Keep digging bro.
> 
> Slippage is one the most important consideration in terms of profitabililty.




Yeah well, it hasn't been for me and I've been doing this for years so...?


----------



## nulla nulla

OneDayWealth said:


> I've been day trading options since 2006 and teaching my method since 2007. I have hundreds of satisfied customers and your cheap shot tells us all about you.




So, secret to success, trade for one year then sell courses on "How to make $5000.00 per week trading options".  
Brilliant. Set up a web site, host seminars, sign up the willing, take their $5,000 (plus GST?) and make more each year through sprooking a course on Options trading than you probably could ever make actually trading. 
Brilliant, particularly when you have failed to demonstrate knowledge of the two most important basics, "Risk Management & Cash Maanagement".
Go live, take the challenge, starting tomorrow post live trades as you  buy and sell so the proof of the pudding is there to be seen. Do it for one week. Prove us disbelievers wrong.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Just stunning.
> 
> Mods, are we ready to close this thread yet?




Although a myriad of "code of conduct" rules have been broken in this thread (mostly by you), the entertainment value is just too high.

Never before has one shot them self in the foot more often in a single day on a single thread. 

Popcorn all round.


----------



## nunthewiser

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Mate, be realistic.
> 
> Can you please post a link or a post number to where this proof may be? As I said, I have only found post #105 to post what some might call "proof". But most people wouldn't. As I said, it can only be _beneficial_ to you if you do and your system works so wonderfully as you say, earning you "a few K/week". Why not prove it to people?? Doesn't make sense, you would rather babble and throw yourself on the ground for 13 pages arguing about it rather than just getting it done. Bizarre.




Its because i asked for LIVE trades in real time NOT maybe manufactured hindsight statements . geez that statement produced b4 i could doctor to whatever i want within 5 minutes.

Live entrys/exits in real time CANNOT be doctored. The trades can be verified, the results can be seen as it happens... no smoke and mirrors to it. good or bad

Billy wants no part of showing us his genius , ONLY wants to tell us . 

gotta love the internet.

now i will stop as my point has been made and my little friend is getting stroppy with me.

oooo  "wealthy one day" sure does have a ring to it tho....


----------



## builder2818

Would the critics here settle for any trading videos he has has done in the past? I'd like to see one if you have.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Mate, be realistic.
> 
> Can you please post a link or a post number to where this proof may be? As I said, I have only found post #105 to post what some might call "proof". But most people wouldn't. As I said, it can only be _beneficial_ to you if you do and your system works so wonderfully as you say, earning you "a few K/week". Why not prove it to people?? Doesn't make sense, you would rather babble and throw yourself on the ground for 13 pages arguing about it rather than just getting it done. Bizarre.




As I said a million posts ago. I have posted heaps of real live trades on my forum (I'm not allowed to post links here). But the jokers are just sticking to their line that I'm a crook and I will doctor everything. Look me up, go to my forum and look for a section called "Trade Examples".

If a moderator allows me I will link and post statements, movies, examples and even a real live movie showing me do a real live option day trade directly from my course but that won't prove anything will it. Even seeing me perform a live trade on video (camtasia) won't convince these types of people. They will always want more and more and more until we all finally figure out that all they wanted to do was waste our time. 

If I show a live video will they apologise? I doubt it. So what's the point? I don;t care if anyone believes me really. I know the truth, I've proved it and I can continue proving it but these people don't want proof. They want to believe that what I do is impossible so they can feel better about wasting their years doing nothing.


----------



## sasch

Oh i Love reading threads like these on a lazy Sunday afternoon.  

Hi Bill,

It is hard to take you seriously when you are promoting the Ash Max power system or whatever it is called on the front page of your site. $25 outlay to earn 25k per month, wow! The risk reward ratio is out of this world. Why would i  do your course and risk my $20000 capital, i mean margin, er bank? Still a bit confused on that point as you have not got back to TH yet in regards to money management. 

On a more serious note though Bill you should have stopped at hello.
   My educator provides audited returns for the last seven years up to and including the GFC. Why can you not provide some simple proof? TH has managed to find time to provide results, with broker statements,why can't you?

You say you trade when you need the money?  Yet you also say you have been very successfully trading for five years. With the type of returns you are talking about shouldn't your capital base be big enough to just sit in the bank earning more than enough interest to live off? Because you also said you do not like risking your money anymore? What could be more safe than cash in the bank.

I have to say you have great stamina though. You have certainly gone more rounds than most...


----------



## OneDayWealth

nulla nulla said:


> So, secret to success, trade for one year then sell courses on "How to make $5000.00 per week trading options".
> Brilliant. Set up a web site, host seminars, sign up the willing, take their $5,000 (plus GST?) and make more each year through sprooking a course on Options trading than you probably could ever make actually trading.
> Brilliant, particularly when you have failed to demonstrate knowledge of the two most important basics, "Risk Management & Cash Maanagement".
> Go live, take the challenge, starting tomorrow post live trades as you  buy and sell so the proof of the pudding is there to be seen. Do it for one week. Prove us disbeleiver wrong.




God, spare us. Read back and you'll see why I'll never interupt my trades to provide "proof" to people who have spent all day trying to destroy me. It doesn;t work like that. I don't even answer the phone when I day trade. Make of that what you will. You guys will never be happy.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> Let's say I buy something for $1.00 and I'm happy to sell it for $1.10 and the stock moves a long way and now my option is worth $1.30 that's way more than I need so I don't mind selling it even to the market makers for a "rip off" price of $1.20 (it would be more like $1.27). I still made 27% which will be enough for me to have the rest of the week off.




So you are saying slippage of only 3c on an ITM call/put occurs in the ASX bourse?
Typical slippage for something as liquid as SPY options is 0.02-0.05


----------



## builder2818

sasch said:


> Oh i Love reading threads like these on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> It is hard to take you seriously when you are promoting the Ash Max power system or whatever it is called on the front page of your site. $25 outlay to earn 25k per month, wow! The risk reward ratio is out of this world. Why would i  do your course and ris to post some resultsk my $20000 capital, i mean margin, er bank? Still a bit confused on that point as you have not got back to TH yet in regards to money management.
> 
> On a more serious note though Bill you should have stopped at hello.
> My educator provides audited returns for the last seven years up to and including the GFC. Why can you not provide some simple proof? TH has managed to find time to provide results, with broker statements,why can't you?
> 
> You say you trade when you need the money?  Yet you also say you have been very successfully trading for five years. With the type of returns you are talking about shouldn't your capital base be big enough to just sit in the bank earning more than enough interest to live off? Because you also said you do not like risking your money anymore? What could be more safe than cash in the bank.
> 
> I have to say you have great stamina though. You have certainly gone more rounds than most...




Who is your educator?....does he wanna go 14 pages in a thread?


----------



## IFocus

mazzatelli said:


> Isn't slippage alone in ASX ETO's at least 0.05-0.20 depending on the contract [assuming MM's are generous]?




MM's are never generous, I foolishly directional trading options late 90's into 2003ish you get hammered by the spread / brokerage  and containing your stop losses normally leaves around 1/3 of the original position.

There are 1000% ers return wise but yet to see anyone have the psychology to handle it. Its really only the retail with no market knowledge that get drawn into the game or very old hands who sit watching for the  correct volatility setup play which funnily enough hasn't been mentioned yet.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sasch said:


> Oh i Love reading threads like these on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> It is hard to take you seriously when you are promoting the Ash Max power system or whatever it is called on the front page of your site. $25 outlay to earn 25k per month, wow! The risk reward ratio is out of this world. Why would i  do your course and ris to post some resultsk my $20000 capital, i mean margin, er bank? Still a bit confused on that point as you have not got back to TH yet in regards to money management.
> 
> On a more serious note though Bill you should have stopped at hello.
> My educator provides audited returns for the last seven years up to and including the GFC. Why can you not provide some simple proof? TH has managed to find time to provide results, with broker statements,why can't you?
> 
> You say you trade when you need the money?  Yet you also say you have been very successfully trading for five years. With the type of returns you are talking about shouldn't your capital base be big enough to just sit in the bank earning more than enough interest to live off? Because you also said you do not like risking your money anymore? What could be more safe than cash in the bank.
> 
> I have to say you have great stamina though. You have certainly gone more rounds than most...




Thanks. Do you still have all the money you've earned? I don't. 2-5k a week does not make anyone rich enough to fully retire. It's just a better form of income that being a sad slave. 

It would be a large bank indeed if I spent none of it but I live a life and I spend money. I spend way too much on hot rods and old flathead collectibles to get rich off just a couple of grand a week. 

Cash in the bank rocks. 

AshMax is just a new name fo a affiliate marketing system. Nothing weird going on there. 22k is the MOST you can earn. Most people earn less than that but still, passive income (no matter how small) is still cool and it's worth building. Hopefully no one here has a problem with passive income but I'm sure someone will.


----------



## Trembling Hand

I thought going down to the Richmond local chatting with p!$$ punters was were the entertain was tonight but nah! :drink:

Bill its only been some 70 post since I asked so you may not of had a chance to get to answer the question yet.

BUT

How much capital per trade do you advise me to lose before I stop out of the trade?? Of my $20,000 I need to live the dream?


----------



## OneDayWealth

IFocus said:


> MM's are never generous, I foolishly directional trading options late 90's into 2003ish you get hammered by the spread / brokerage  and containing your stop losses normally leaves around 1/3 of the original position.
> 
> There are 1000% ers return wise but yet to see anyone have the psychology to handle it. Its really only the retail with no market knowledge that get drawn into the game or very old hands who sit watching for the  correct volatility setup play which funnily enough hasn't been mentioned yet.




At last! Some decent conversation!

Certainly I agree. Managing your losses is crucial to this (and every) method. Options sometimes move fast but 99% of the time they move slow enough to get out when you see a doji candlestick or a fast rush (exhaustion) candle. I still suffer from "she'll come back" but my "last exit!" signal tells me when it's time to get out of Dodge.

With the way I do it, losses can usually be kept to less than 10%. I get very nervous when my losses go past 10%. I Usually get out before my losses reach 4 figures and if you can do that you will be fine.


----------



## nulla nulla

*Re: Bill Stacy? "Risk Management & Cash Management"*



OneDayWealth said:


> God, spare us. Read back and you'll see why I'll never interupt my trades to provide "proof" to people who have spent all day trying to destroy me. It doesn;t work like that. I don't even answer the phone when I day trade. Make of that what you will. You guys will never be happy.




Bill send me $1,500 and I'll teach you the basics in Risk Management and Cash Management. Then you can bump the price of your course up to $6,000 (plus GST). You will recoup 66.66% of your outlay in the first signup at the new improved price and be in profit by 66.66% on your second signup. Hows that for a rate of return?


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> I thought going down to the Richmond local chatting with p!$$ punters was were the entertain was tonight but nah! :drink:
> 
> Bill its only been some 70 post since I asked so you may not of had a chance to get to answer the question yet.
> 
> BUT
> 
> How much capital per trade do you advise me to lose before I stop out of the trade?? Of my $20,000 I need to live the dream?




Answere above again as you posted.


----------



## OneDayWealth

*Re: Bill Stacy? "Risk Management & Cash Management"*



nulla nulla said:


> Bill send me $1,500 and I'll teach you the basics in Risk Management and Cash Management. Then you can bump the price of your course up to $6,000 (plus GST). You will recoup 66.66% of your outlay in the first signup at the new improved price and be in profit by 66.66% on your second sign up. Hows that for a rate of return?




My course hasn't been 5k for a long time but I do all my money management before I arrive at the stock market. I only ever trade with money I can afford to lose. I'm not saying this is not a high risk strategy at all and it's not for ninnies that's for sure but it does work and I do work it and so do others. They have all been screaming at me to join up here and post in my defence but I'm advising against it because of the "1st post" attacks they will get. 

I'm well capable of defending myself anyway. Especially when talking the truth - it's easy.


----------



## nulla nulla

*Re: Bill Stacy? "Risk Management & Cash Management"*



OneDayWealth said:


> My course hasn't been 5k for a long time.




Bother, how much more do I need to save up before I sign up?


----------



## newbie trader

Didn't he say 10% or 15% max earlier somewhere? Or maybe that was in relation to something else. 

One of the more entertaining threads I've come across in a while. I'm only 19 and am embarrassed for Mr Stacy (who i'm assuming is a fully grown man) after reading many of his comments. They are akin to the arguments that take place on a popular gaming forum of which I am a member (arguments between 15yr olds). Hopefully Mr Stacy can present some proper proof so as to quell all of this bickering.


----------



## OneDayWealth

*Re: Bill Stacy? "Risk Management & Cash Management"*



nulla nulla said:


> Bother, how much more do I need to save up before I sign up?





Less than you'll make in a month (once I've finished training and debriefing you).


----------



## mazzatelli

Oh I see: brokerage, margin, slippage - all not important when developing  trading systems/models.

As long as the spot moves...
Thanks.


----------



## OneDayWealth

newbie trader said:


> Didn't he say 10% or 15% max earlier somewhere? Or maybe that was in relation to something else.
> 
> One of the more entertaining threads I've come across in a while. I'm only 19 and am embarrassed for Mr Stacy (who i'm assuming is a fully grown man) after reading many of his comments. They are akin to the arguments that take place on a popular gaming forum of which I am a member (arguments between 15yr olds). Hopefully Mr Stacy can present some proper proof so as to quell all of the bickering.




Thank you. At last, someone who reads the posts. 

As for how upset I get when someone attacks me it depends on how severe and unfair they are. How upset would you get if someone slapped your mother right in front of you and knocked her to the ground? Pretty upset I bet and I also bet no one would accuse you of being "childish" for flattening the guy on the spot. 

I take my reputation VERY seriously. I have worked very hard to build it up and I'll be damned if I'm going to let a couple of loose old bitter cannons destroy all the good I've done over the last 5 years with a couple of fast unthinking comments.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Oh I see: brokerage, margin, slippage - all not important when developing  trading systems/models.
> 
> As long as the spot moves...
> Thanks.




Correct. I'm not in this to make money buying something for 95c and selling it for 96c. I need a decent move. Not massive. Just decent enough so all those things have little effect on the bottom line. A "decent" move will happen several times a day but in my experience most people will rarely catch more than 3 or 4 of them a week. Any one of which could supply more than enough profit to live on.


----------



## nulla nulla

*Re: Bill Stacy? "A man of vague answers?"*



OneDayWealth said:


> Less than you'll make in a month (once I've finished training and debriefing you).




Thats a bit vague Bill, sounds like the sort of answer a salesman would give before launching into a spiel.


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> I take my reputation VERY seriously. I have worked very hard to build it up and I'll be damned if I'm going to let a couple of loose old bitter cannons destroy all the good I've done over the last 5 years with a couple of fast unthinking comments.




If you dont want to (further) damage your reputation, do as i suggested on Page 2 of this thread and see what damage the Commercial Securities thread did to that brand/reputation.

The best you can do to salvage what sliver of respect you have left (if any) is to walk away and not continually be baited into posting, and then just putting up hyperbole when you do post


----------



## Vicki

> Do you mind if I join your program and document it all live on my blog?




written by shaking hand I think.

Why can't we just let you prove your systems worth, & just give an experienced trader a test drive of your course/method.

It could arranged that it be under strict formal agreement, that he doesn't distribute it to anyone else etc.

Then when an experienced person gives it the thumbs-up, well you'll have more clients than you could dream of...Big Bucks!

Beats go'n round after round, with people that wont be bullsh!ted easily.

Again, now's your time to shine!

So how 'bout it Bill, provem' all wrong!


Vicki


----------



## lindsayf

*Re: Bill Stacy? "Risk Management & Cash Management"*

"_they have all been screaming at me to join up here and post in my defence but I'm advising against it because of the "1st post" attacks they will get. 

I'm well capable of defending myself anyway. Especially when talking the truth - it's easy"_

....I can hear them coming.....


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> Correct. I'm not in this to make money buying something for 95c and selling it for 96c. I need a decent move. Not massive. Just decent enough so all those things have little effect on the bottom line. A "decent" move will happen several times a day but in my experience most people will rarely catch more than 3 or 4 of them a week. Any one of which could supply more than enough profit to live on.




Bill,

This is why there are many sceptics here.

How often are you on the wrong side of a decent move in percentage terms?

What happens to the bid ask spread during a decent move, get my drift ?

Even if your win loss ratio is running at 60%, slippage will eat you alive.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Prices are on the website. It's not important here. 

These guys are not arguing value they are flat out calling me a liar and a crook. 

They would never see the value of paying for any information. No information is ever worth paying for...lol poor sods


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Bill,
> 
> This is why there are many sceptics here.
> 
> How often are you on the wrong side of a decent move in percentage terms?
> 
> What happens to the bid ask spread during a decent move, get my drift.





Sceptics I can handle and appreciate. Cynics have no place in my life. How often do I get it wrong? Probably at least once a week. Maybe more. Can't remember a profitable week that didn't include at least one loss. Just the same as everywhere else I guess. If you want less losses do all my paper trading exercises and practice hard and have good discipline and your losses will (as long as you're not stupid about it) be over balanced by your wins. 

The Bid/Ask spread is in a constant state of flux. It's always moving and that's why I always trade with the crowd. To make sure that we are dealing with real traders and not rip off Market Makers.


----------



## ColB

I think this thread should be merged with the Michelle Corby thread. 

Zack, I mean Bill, is very entertaining.


----------



## nulla nulla

ColB said:


> I think this thread should be merged with the Michelle Corby thread.
> 
> Zack, I mean Bill, is very entertaining.




Does Michelle trade options? I guess she has plenty of time on her hands.


----------



## cutz

Bill,

So what's your win loss ratio ?

In other words for every ten trades how many are winners averaged over say a year, not a 4 day streak.


----------



## builder2818

its Schapelle Corby


----------



## OneDayWealth

Here you go. I better get an apology! 

Here is a video directly off my course showing me live making $1,000 in 4 minutes buying an ANZ Put. Normally the only people who see this are those who buy my course. 

It shows me performing a real live right before your very eyes option day trade. It reveals my full layouts and shows the "non-existant" software I made to help epopel make super fast decisions. 

Mods. you have to leave this link. It's the "proof" everyone has been asking for. But it's only one trade so I know that won't keep them happy. $50 says they will find some smart comment to try to discredit this proof. 

I'll wait for the apologies.


----------



## nulla nulla

builder2818 said:


> its Schapelle Corby




Okay, does Schapelle trade options? I guess she has plenty of time on her hands? Did she do Bills course?


----------



## nunthewiser

It seems our Billy has also been affiliated with "planet Wealth, 21st century academy, universal wealth creation along with some people that have had the spotlights for  ALLEGED underhand dealings in the past.
jamie mcintrye
andrew dimitri
etc 

just a bit of food for thought

amazing what a bit of digging can bring up .

nice hotrod by the way champ


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Here you go. I better get an apology!
> 
> .




what for?

me asking for live trades in real time so we can evaluate it ourselves?

you have the opportunity to do it here in the future and i for one will respect that if you do so.

other than that bud i will keep on having a read up on all the various buiseness names and "market associated" numbers you have been named/involved in.

interesting reading so far


----------



## Vicki

> My course hasn't been 5k for a long time but I do all my money management before I arrive at the stock market. I only ever trade with money I can afford to lose. I'm not saying this is not a high risk strategy at all and it's not for ninnies that's for sure but it does work and I do work it and so do others. They have all been screaming at me to join up here and post in my defence but I'm advising against it because of the "1st post" attacks they will get.
> 
> I'm well capable of defending myself anyway. Especially when talking the truth - it's easy.




Actually, I think I've seen adds/spam on the net, saying buy your course before it goes up...& up etc.
Could be wrong, but I think I saw 10k as an asking price for your course?

Bill, can all your members even see this thread? [wonder what they really think?]

If they want to post in your defense, let'm.
But I think we'll have to start another thread, to  accomadate them all, & not get confused with who's who?..[how many are there?]

Call it "the save Bill's cred" thread.

Anyway, as I mentioned recently, why don't you just let 'shaking hand' test drive your material?
What's to lose?...Your reputation?
Just do it, show'm how it's done!


Vicki


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> It seems our Billy has also been affiliated with "planet Wealth, 21st century academy along with some people that have hot the spotlights for underhand dealings in the past.
> 
> Jamie McIntrye
> Andrew Dimitri
> etc
> 
> just a bit of food for thought
> 
> amazing what a bit of digging can bring up .
> 
> nice hotrod by the way champ




Thanks man, don't tell me you're into rods. 

Jamie...was a top bloke, not so sure now. He did some funky things I'm not really impressed with but I'll defend most of the first part of his seminars but I have issues with the last two days which is a whole other thread.

Andrew Dimitri - top bloke.

There is no "...etc". That's it.


----------



## Wysiwyg

I watched four of your (baiting) hindsight trading videos. Hindsight entries on new highs and MA crosses are very amateur and surely only newbies are the target customer for these baiting videos? Not to mention what profits could have been made. Hard to take it serious in my opinion.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> Actually, I think I've seen adds/spam on the net, saying buy your course before it goes up...& up etc.
> Could be wrong, but I think I saw 10k as an asking price for your course?
> 
> Bill, can all your members even see this thread? [wonder what they really think?]
> 
> If they want to post in your defense, let'm.
> But I think we'll have to start another thread, to  accomadate them all, & not get confused with who's who?..[how many are there?]
> 
> Call it "the save Bill's cred" thread.
> 
> Anyway, as I mentioned recently, why don't you just let 'shaking hand' test drive your material?
> What's to lose?...Your reputation?
> Just do it, show'm how it's done!
> 
> 
> Vicki




Vicki, I don't know any of these people. I only know you. I don't know who to trust and if I give someone a free course how do you think all the people who paid for it will feel? Would it be fair to them? I am willing to take a phone call though to give a full rundown to anyone who wants to ask serious probing questions. Like I said, I can handle scpetical but cynical people need not apply.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Wysiwyg said:


> I watched four of your (baiting) hindsight trading videos. Hindsight entries on new highs and MA crosses are very amateur and surely only newbies are the target customer for these baiting videos? Not to mention what profits could have been made. Hard to take it serious in my opinion.




I'm fine being an amateur if that's your definition. They work just fine is all I know. Have done for years, probably will for years to come. 

"Baiting"? 

Grow up. It's called marketing and information. I suppose you hate all adverts and all products or are there some ads or products you don't mind? You're just coming it from the angle that I am a crook and of course with that attitude everything will seem bad to you. But if you allow for the FACT that I am telling the truth it's just an ad to get some interest. They would then download my ebook for free, get a fuller story and then decide to buy. Then they would have to study for a few months and paper trade and THEN they will trade ONE contract. Then and only then will they increase the size of the trade as they are comfortable. 

So your insinuation that I rope ignorant people and turn them into all following zombies with no capacoty to make an intelligent decision is frankly offensive to me and my members. All of whom are intelligent people capable of making an intelligent decision and hundreds of them have done exactly that. I know it's tough for some people to believe in electricity but guess what folks...it's real and it exists. Better get used to it. If this is the first time you are hearing of anyone day trading options, open your eyes and minds and you will see that I have discovered a way to tame them and make a decent profit along the way and it's no where near as risky as many of you obviously are guessing it is. 

Like I said earlier. Some of you super technical analysts would CLEAN UP!


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Thanks man, don't tell me you're into rods.
> 
> 
> There is no "...etc". That's it.





I own numerous harleys and pre 80,s v8,s i like things that rumble

nik halik

material wealth.com
money masters global

etc etc

and thats just in 1 hour of skimming of where your name is mentioned.( i havent even mentioned your facebook comments/links/associates)

ALL of the mentioned so far by me in last couple of posts have had major clouds of integrity plus other spotlights placed on them over the years and it seems the deeper i look the more new nametags for the same product i find.

interesting


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> I own numerous harleys and pre 80,s v8,s i like things that rumble
> 
> nik halik
> 
> material wealth.com
> money masters global
> 
> etc etc
> 
> and thats just in 1 hour of skimming of where your name is mentioned.( i havent even mentioned your facebook comments/links/associates
> 
> ALL of the mentioned so far by me in last couple of posts have had major clouds of integrity plus other spotlights placed on them over the years and it seems the deeper i look the more new nametags for the same product i find.
> 
> interesting




Nope, never had anything to do with Nik Halik or FFI (I have a real problem with one particular staff member over there who actually worked for me as a day trader - useless). Anyone who says new things has an instant cloud over them in Australia. We destroy successfull people in this country - it's what we do.

Not much I can do about who "friends" me on Facebook.


----------



## the phantom

This forum is certainly not against successful trading.


----------



## the phantom

As most people have found with their trading education there is more fluff or feather than fowl out there.


----------



## the phantom

Interesting pricing structure for a 'non professional' that abusers their students for not thinking for themselves as opposed to strictly following a system, what the heck are you teaching ... guidelines like hand drawn trend-lines ? I assume paying this much (actually ... that much ... is extreme ...  they are hoping perhaps for a mechanical system  ... which in a lot of places could be purchased at 1/40 of the cost ... even then if purely mechanical, most, I mean most, traders would have difficultly following it, even with 3 - 6 month hand holding period).


----------



## OneDayWealth

I know. I've spent well over $30,000 on courses. 

It's kind of why I exist as an educator. No one would ever tell us the full story so I stepped up.


----------



## Wysiwyg

OneDayWealth said:


> I'm fine being an amateur if that's your definition. They work just fine is all I know. Have done for years, probably will for years to come.



Oh that is okay. I' m sure there are people out there who try it.

One thing that is not mentioned is the liquidity for exits to be made when wanted. Especially stop losses I think would be critical when price swings against. Is there sufficient liquidity?


----------



## OneDayWealth

the phantom said:


> Interesting pricing structure for a 'non professional' that abusers their students for not thinking for themselves as opposed to strictly following a system,




Who did I abuse? Vicki? Hey, I didn't start that one. I needed to set the record straight and I will ALWAYS abuse anyone who abuses me first - don't you? The truth needed to be said and I defend myself. Some people like to cop it up the kyber - I don't.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Wysiwyg said:


> Oh that is okay. I' m sure there are people out there who try it.
> 
> One thing that is not mentioned is the liquidity for exits to be made when wanted. Especially stop losses I think would be critical when price swings against. Is there sufficient liquidity?




There is plenty of liquidity if you stick to the top ten stocks and hang around the money. Besides the market makers will always pick it up if you lower the price enough. You can always get the bid or better. Plus I/we only trade a few options at a time because I like to keep the price high. It's always possible to sell a few options. Never had any real trouble and I've been doing this for over 5 years now.


----------



## nunthewiser

gnight all.
I,ll just leave you with these


----------



## OneDayWealth

the phantom said:


> Interesting pricing structure for a 'non professional' that abusers their students for not thinking for themselves as opposed to strictly following a system, what the heck are you teaching ... guidelines like hand drawn trend-lines ? I assume paying this much (actually ... that much ... is extreme ...  they are hoping perhaps for a mechanical system  ... which in a lot of places could be purchased at 1/40 of the cost ... even then if purely mechanical, most, I mean most, traders would have difficultly following it, even with 3 - 6 month hand holding period).




Every single one of my personal clients has been very happy with the coaching they received and they (almost without exception) went straight into trading and made it all back before long.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> gnight all.
> I,ll just leave you with these




How is that relevant? 

Most of the points made are totally possible and ASIC and the court are wrong. They obviously don't know how to trade and have made him stop saying perfectly reasonable and true statements but being the left most department in the government I wouldn't expect anything less from them.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Just watched your "real" video where you naturally profited from a trade and it appears no different to trading other instruments on a short time frame. 10 currency pair contracts times 10 pips would net a grand too in a short space of time.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Wysiwyg said:


> Just watched your "real" video where you naturally profited from a trade and it appears no different to trading other instruments on a short time frame. 10 currency pair contracts times 10 pips would net a grand too in a short space of time.




Excellent. All done without any lending. Just the way I like it.


----------



## the phantom

What nunthewiser, posted above (lol of course the court is wrong ... the case would not have been heard without sufficient complaint or evidence .. worst denial ever). 

Btw, life is tough, and owes you nothing.

Continue to work for a living, instead of praying on honest folk, until you realise how to actually add value to other people's lives or your own, instead of taking.

Yes, and yes, there are evil people out there (perhaps you may wish to think about it as good people just doing bad things), if you are doing something which you may think could be dodgy, perhaps you might be one of them. Otherwise you need to be 'told' about it later. If having to be 'told' by an outsider, it does not usually forebode well.


----------



## Wysiwyg

OneDayWealth said:


> Excellent. All done without any lending. Just the way I like it.



Yeah I know what you mean. Fairly easy really.


----------



## OneDayWealth

the phantom said:


> What nunthewiser, posted above (lol of course the court is wrong ... the case would not have been heard without sufficient complaint or evidence .. worst denial ever).
> 
> Btw, life is tough, and owes you nothing.
> 
> Continue to work for a living, instead of praying on honest folk, until you realise how to actually add value to other people's lives or your own, instead of taking.




What the hell? Who's preying on people? Not me. I sell a product that I'm extremely proud of. I help people. What do you do to "add value"? 

Would you rather that people did not sell education on how to make money? How would that help anyone? How about we all just give everything to everyone for free. Oh, hang on. They already tried that. It's called communism and yes, the court is wrong - that's never happened before?


----------



## Vicki

JEEPERS CREEPERS!!!

Phantom, that's just blown me away!

Bill, is this web-page doc. that Phantom just posted, is this for real!!!!

Stone the crows, you'd want to have happy clients if they're paying this rediculous price!
Otherwise they'd be chas'n ya 'round with pitch-forks!

I think you really should consider having one of our nominated traders, the Mod. maybe, test drive this!
'Cause it'll iether make or break you if you dont!

If I was one of those people who just dropped that sorta $$$$, I WOULD GLADLY RECOMMEND someone verify it's viability independantly!

So draw up a once off agreement with shaking hand etc. to launch this to a new level!
I'm shore your members wouldn't object, once off!

Take a vote from them, on here!

Otherwise they might begin to think "uh oh, is this just another scam like the early planet wealth?"


Vicki

p.s.  







> Every single one of my personal clients has been very happy with the coaching they received and they (almost without exception) went straight into trading and made it all back before long.




Bill, just give an estimate, how many members have gone through this training program mentioned?
10   20   50 100 200? at up to 30k a peice!


----------



## nunthewiser

Bill.
Do you hold a ASFL?

if so can i have the number

just curious


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> JEEPERS CREEPERS!!!
> 
> Phantom, that's just blown me away!
> 
> Bill, is this web-page doc. that Phantom just posted, is this for real!!!!
> 
> Stone the crows, you'd want to have happy clients if they're paying this rediculous price!
> Otherwise they'd be chas'n ya 'round with pitch-forks!
> 
> I think you really should consider having one of our nominated traders, the Mod. maybe, test drive this!
> 'Cause it'll iether make or break you if you dont!
> 
> If I was one of those people who just dropped that sorta $$$$, I WOULD GLADLY RECOMMEND someone verify it's viability independantly!
> 
> So draw up a once off agreement with shaking hand etc. to launch this to a new level!
> I'm shore your members wouldn't object, once off!
> 
> Take a vote from them, on here!
> 
> Otherwise they might begin to think "uh oh, is this just another scam like the early planet wealth?"
> 
> 
> Vicki




It sure is! And worth every penny according to the people who bought it. How much would you pay to know how to make thousands a week from anywhere in the world? Nothing? $100? $2.00? Try buying a business (that will usually fail) that can produce that amount of income and you'll be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars.

People can think what they like. Planet Wealth wasn't/isn't a scam and neither am I or any of my products of which I am very proud. Did you watch the video proof? 

Why should I give this to anyone to "prove" what I already know? Pointless. There are heaps of examples everywhere of people who are mre than happy with their purchase. Many made it back in the first few weeks of trading.  



nunthewiser said:


> Bill.
> Do you hold a ASFL?
> 
> if so can i have the number
> 
> just curious




Not AFSL but an AR of an AFSL, PS 146 and I get licensed when I speak. Not licensed at the moment because I don't speak.


----------



## the phantom

OneDayWealth said:


> What the hell? Who's preying on people? Not me. I sell a product that I'm extremely proud of. I help people. What do you do to "add value"?
> 
> Would you rather that people did not sell education on how to make money? How would that help anyone? How about we all just give everything to everyone for free. Oh, hang on. They already tried that. It's called communism and yes, the court is wrong - that's never happened before?




No, I am not a communist. Believe in both our Labor and Liberal form of government, which is also based on protection to the individual to enjoy a free market, while 'protecting' our society, and also looking after the less fortunate.

Leased ,

"Australian Financial Services License (AFSL) Information
Blingco Investments Pty Ltd ACN 112 993 389 As Trustee For The OneDayWealth Trust ABN 70 748 653 062 is an Authorised Representative (AR number 325505 ) of
THE INTERNATIONAL SECURITIES AND DERIVATIVES GROUP PTY LTD (ASIC Australian Financial Services License AFSL # 227544). Click here to view my PS146 Certification in Financial Services #2096"

Easiest way to get one I believe.


----------



## lindsayf

> Did you watch the video proof?




terrific 'proof' of a single trade..bravo

ffs


----------



## OneDayWealth

lindsayf said:


> terrific 'proof' of a single trade..bravo
> 
> ffs




lol, rofl lmao...I knew it! I just new it! 

Classic and hilarious. Got anything else "clever" to say?


----------



## Farang

40 grand! 40% a month! thats like 5500% compounded per annum. Does ASIC know you're charging $40,000 for these guaranteed returns day trading ASX options.  

This is a joke right? No ones stupid enough to fall for that scam. Its not even remotely realistic. Who the hell would day trade ASX options with a directional strategy anyway? Its nonsense, stock index or fixed income futures are far superior for day trading. Higher leverage, way higher liquidity and lower commissions. 

Mabey you should look into these products as the basis for your next scam.


----------



## OneDayWealth

the phantom said:


> No, I am not a communist. Believe in both our Labor and Liberal form of government, which is also based on protection to the individual to enjoy a free market, while 'protecting' our society, and also looking after the less fortunate.
> 
> Leased ,
> 
> "Australian Financial Services License (AFSL) Information
> Blingco Investments Pty Ltd ACN 112 993 389 As Trustee For The OneDayWealth Trust ABN 70 748 653 062 is an Authorised Representative (AR number 325505 ) of
> THE INTERNATIONAL SECURITIES AND DERIVATIVES GROUP PTY LTD (ASIC Australian Financial Services License AFSL # 227544). Click here to view my PS146 Certification in Financial Services #2096"
> 
> Easiest way to get one I believe.




That's my number. Not sure if I'll get the same number next time though.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Farang said:


> 40 grand! 40% a month! thats like 5500% compounded per annum. Does ASIC know you're charging $40,000 for these guaranteed returns day trading ASX options.
> 
> This is a joke right? No ones stupid enough to fall for that scam. Its not even remotely realistic. Who the hell would day trade ASX options with a directional strategy anyway? Its nonsense, stock index or fixed income futures are far superior for day trading. Higher leverage, way higher liquidity and lower commissions.
> 
> Mabey you should look into these products as the basis for your next scam.




I am amzed at the new levels of idiocy constantly being achieved on this forum. I never guarantee returns I guarantee satisfaction and to stay as personal hot line coach until they are satisfied. I also fly to their city and stay with them for a week (at a motel nearby) and then on the phone all day until they are ready to let me go. Usually months and every single one of them is very happy. Have you tried hiring a personal trading coach? 50k minimum! Try it.

ASIC doesn't approve prices...lol 

You don't know as much as you think you do. Just because you are not capable of calculating value doesn't mean that everyone else is that thick. 

High leverage futures...lol, no thanks! I'm not that silly. 

Who would day trade options? Anyone who wants to. I do, hundreds of my members do. What's it to you anyway? Offensive jerk.

I'm also noticing that the most offensive posters are not using any names. How gutless is that?...lol What are you guys all so afraid of? Being associated with your offensive slanderous comments? I'd be ashamed as well. Next time someone wants to take their insecurities out on me at least sign your name.


----------



## Farang

LOL you don't seem to understand that Options ARE leveraged instruments, just like Futures and CFD's.

LMAO @ $20,000 for guaranteed "satisfaction".

Mate you've been discredited on every page by the posters on this 17 page thread so far. You seem to get dumber with each post and you sound like a 15 year old with an IQ of 65. Face it, You know **** all about trading and you know **** all about options. No one here sees through your charade.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Farang said:


> LOL you don't seem to understand that Options ARE leveraged instruments, just like Futures and CFD's.
> 
> LMAO @ $20,000 for guaranteed "satisfaction".
> 
> Mate you've been discredited on every page by the posters on this 17 page thread so far. You seem to get dumber with each post and you sound like a 15 year old with an IQ of 65. Face it, You know **** all about trading and you know **** all about options. No one here sees through your charade.





What's your name rude guy? Your ignorant opinion and point of view mean nothing to me.


----------



## the phantom

OneDayWealth said:


> Next time someone wants to take their insecurities out on me at least sign your name.




If you can't take the 'public' heat then perhaps get out of the kitchen.

Only your reputation is being question ...


----------



## OneDayWealth

the phantom said:


> If you can't take the 'public' heat then perhaps get out of the kitchen.
> 
> Only your reputation is being question ...




What's your name. This is not heat...lol This is a bunch of stupid baseless allegations from people who are too scared to sign their names. Weak as. 

I'm the only one using my full name so from where I sit mine is the only reputation in tact and shining. My record stands as proof of my integrity. Where's yours? What's your name?


----------



## Vicki

Why should you have someone try it out, to tell you what YOU already know !

Oh Golly Goodness, to prove it to others you might also want or like as clients!
sillybilly.




> Who would day trade options? Anyone who wants to. I do, hundreds of my members do. What's it to you anyway? Offensive jerk.




HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS!!!
PAYING UP TO 40K EACH!
So you're already a multi millionaire then?

Offensive jerk?
Think you might want to be careful with those insults Bill.
 [It sounds unproffessional]
And there's a lot more of us than you.
Australia wide, & you might just bump into somebody that remembers you & your mouth, especially if they've lost money at hands of wealth 'spruikers'

Vicki


----------



## Wysiwyg

I' m sure the law will step in if anyone gets stung or any laws are broken. Preferably before anyone gets stung.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> Why should you have someone try it out, to tell you what YOU already know !
> 
> Oh Golly Goodness, to prove it to others you might also want or like as clients!
> sillybilly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS!!!
> PAYING UP TO 40K EACH!
> So you're already a multi millionaire then?
> 
> Offensive jerk?
> Think you might want to be careful with those insults Bill.
> [It sounds unproffessional]
> And there's a lot more of us than you.
> Australia wide, & you might just bump into somebody that remembers you & your mouth, especially if they've lost money at hands of wealth 'spruikers'
> 
> Vicki




I don't care and would LOVE to meet any of you who abused and spread lies and inuendo. LOVE love love it! Can't wait!!

Don't be silly yourself Vicki. My course costs $5,000 (check). The extra personal coaching is a product that I was asked to make so someone could buy it with a proper invoice. Not sure how it made it onto the "featured" items on my shopping cart. It's been removed now. 

Most of my courses were sold for $1,800, about 1/4 at $5k and I've sold about half a dozen personal coaching gigs. 

"I" need to be careful of the insults? I'm being massacred here by fools and babies and *I* have to be careful? I don't think so. If anything it's you guys who need to be careful. Destroying a person's reputation and causing real business harm is illegal and a low act which many of you seem to be reveling in so that really does say more about you guys than it does about me. 

I'm an honest guy with honest and real results selling a real product to real people who really appreciate it. My conscience is crystal clear.

For the record I don't actually want any more clients. Is that what you guys think? I want more clients? I wouldn't even have most of you as members...I'm just here to defend myself not to get more clients. 

That's the last thing I want. Too many other things going on to "need" to do anything. I don't and have never "needed" to sell any courses to anyone. I was forced (by constant suggestion) to get what I do on tape and made into a product that people have loved incidentally. But I'm guessing that you guys would never believe a real testimonial without wanting to see proof of their trading as well...lol


----------



## OneDayWealth

Wysiwyg said:


> I' m sure the law will step in if anyone gets stung or any laws are broken. Preferably before anyone gets stung.




No laws are being broken unless it's illegal to make money trading options and show others how I do it. Last time I checked that was not only legal but encouraged. 

What's your name?


----------



## Vicki

> Mate you've been discredited on every page by the posters on this 17 page thread so far. You seem to get dumber with each post and you sound like a 15 year old with an IQ of 65. Face it, You know **** all about trading and you know **** all about options. everyone here sees through your charade.




Bill, if you don't follow through with a 'test drive' for such an expensive course,
Well you're rightfully going to be labeled as above!

What will the investment community, your clients & prospective clients think of you now?

Vicki

I'm going nighty nights, like Bills career! lol


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> Bill, if you don't follow through with a 'test drive' for such an expensive course,
> Well you're rightfully going to be labeled as above!
> 
> What will the investment community, your clients & prospective clients think of you now?
> 
> Vicki
> 
> I'm going nighty nights, like Bills career! lol




Oh you are the most hilarious person in the world. What career? I stopped working at a job in 2004.

Extortion? That'll stylish. So let me see if I get this right. Unless I give my course (for free! no less) to a stranger who has abused and defamed me publicly while attempting to destroy my reputation I'm going to be "rightfully" labelled a crook and have my reputation destroyed? Rightfully?!!! WTF?!!

My lawyer will love that last one.

What will people think? Intelligent people will read this and see how I was attacked from all sides by nameless gutless people and I stood here for 12 hours never flinching and defended and answered every single charge and my reputation will be bolstered. 

*No one* here has said anything of any substance to discredit me and the reason for that I've done nothing wrong and in fact I have provided a fair and valuable service to hundreds of appreciative clients. I even offered many forms of proof that I am a real trader with real results that have been published for a very long time but you guys still attacked and destroyed. 

I have been treated like a common thief by nameless people with nothing better to do than tear down anyone more successful than themselves. None of you have signed your name (gutless...lol). That's how much you think of yourselves you are too scared to reveal your real name in case it appears in a legal action. I dare any of you to sign your names to your comments and stand by them in a court of law. I will stand in any court and defend every claim and result if necessary - will you?


----------



## Vicki

> "I" need to be careful of the insults? I'm being massacred here by fools and babies and *I* have to be careful? I don't think so. If anything it's you guys who need to be careful. Destroying a person's reputation and causing real business harm is illegal and a low act which many of you seem to be reveling in so that really does say more about you guys than it does about me.




How could fools & babies massacre you, you're a grown man aren't you?

Destroying a persons reputation?
I think you've done a good job of that yourself!

Anyways, what does it matter what us insignificant fools think anyhow?
You're the one mak'n the big bucks 10-25% per/wk?

Oh come on, just show one us your course, it can't be that bad can it?

Yawn. Vicki


----------



## Wysiwyg

> Risk usually also runs between 2.5% and 20% which means you can potentially lose between $500 - $3,000 per trade if you get it wrong.




This is the type of quote that exposes the huge risk of trading this method. Potentially 20% may not be the worst. Poor management of risk but not your risk ... right.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> How could fools & babies massacre you, you're a grown man aren't you?
> 
> Destroying a persons reputation?
> I think you've done a good job of that yourself!
> 
> Anyways, what does it matter what us insignificant fools think anyhow?
> You're the one mak'n the big bucks 10-25% per/wk?
> 
> Oh come on, just show one us your course, it can't be that bad can it?
> 
> Yawn. Vicki




It's easy to massacre someone with lies and innuendo. 

Anyone can make 10-25% a week. Nothing really special about that. 

I'm not giving my course to anyone for free. Especially (after today!) not you guys - crickeys. 

Abuse, defame, insult, tear strips off and then ask for thousands of dollars of products for free? lol...that's so rich I can't even begin to describe how ludicrous that sounds.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Wysiwyg said:


> This is the type of quote that exposes the huge risk of trading this method. Potentially 20% may not be the worst. Poor management of risk but not your risk ... right.




I never claimed there was no risk and it's not huge. But the real risk of trading options is a 100% loss. Obviously. 

If you want to let it sit there and just degrade to more than a 15% loss that's your problem and not the fault of any strategy. If you are losing, exit your trade. It's not hard. 

Your third sentance makes no sense. 

What's your name?


----------



## Vicki

> I'm happy for someone who considers themselves the voice of this forum to contact me directly at the phone numbers listed previously for a private chat and explanation of my methods and a tour of my strategy and the site. I've always got time for curious new investors and inquisitive experienced traders alike.
> 
> If you think I have gained free publicity I am willing to make a chunky donation to your favourite charity to compensate. Let's see if some good can come from this warm debate.




Well again, double that 20k bank, verify it, then hand the Mod. a bank cheque for 20k made out to the Royal Childrens Hospital!

people may hold you in a higher regard then, & if they dont, so what, you've publically donated to worthy cause.


Go'n 2 bed


----------



## wayneL

Wysiwyg]Just watched your "real" video where you naturally profited from a trade and it appears no different to trading other instruments on a short time frame. 10 currency pair contracts times 10 pips would net a grand too in a short space of time.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=OneDayWealth said:


> Excellent. All done without any lending. Just the way I like it.




LOL priceless!

So trading $1,000,000 of currency on margin isn't borrowing but trading $1,000,000 of CFD on margin is?

Bill, you're a laugh a minute.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> *No one* here has said anything of any substance to discredit me and the reason for that I've done nothing wrong and in fact I have provided a fair and valuable service to hundreds of appreciative clients. I even offered many forms of proof that I am a real trader with real results that have been published for a very long time but you guys still attacked and destroyed.




Now this is incontrovertible evidence that you are deluding yourself.

So far we have established:

You promote the least efficient instrument for daytrading.
You do not fully understand the instrument you trade.
Have zero understanding of alternative instruments.
Are not prepared to offer real time proof of success.
Have great difficulty understanding simple concepts.
Use logical fallacy to attempt to defend yourself.
Do not understand money/cash management.
That you believe this is doing your reputation any good.

And that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure I could find more going back trough this thread.

Your choice dude, but I'm reminded of the old adage - When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.


----------



## nulla nulla

OneDayWealth said:


> I am amzed at the new levels of idiocy constantly being achieved on this forum. I never guarantee returns I guarantee satisfaction and to stay as personal hot line coach until they are satisfied. I also fly to their city and stay with them for a week (at a motel nearby) and then on the phone all day until they are ready to let me go. Usually months and every single one of them is very happy. Have you tried hiring a personal trading coach? 50k minimum! Try it.




This contradicts an earlier posts where you advised that you don't answer the phone when you are trading.


----------



## nulla nulla

the phantom said:


> Interesting pricing structure for a 'non professional' that abusers their students for not thinking for themselves as opposed to strictly following a system, what the heck are you teaching ... guidelines like hand drawn trend-lines ? I assume paying this much (actually ... that much ... is extreme ...  they are hoping perhaps for a mechanical system  ... which in a lot of places could be purchased at 1/40 of the cost ... even then if purely mechanical, most, I mean most, traders would have difficultly following it, even with 3 - 6 month hand holding period).






Vicki said:


> Why should you have someone try it out, to tell you what YOU already know !
> 
> Oh Golly Goodness, to prove it to others you might also want or like as clients!
> sillybilly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS!!!
> PAYING UP TO 40K EACH!
> So you're already a multi millionaire then?
> 
> Offensive jerk?
> Think you might want to be careful with those insults Bill.
> [It sounds unproffessional]
> And there's a lot more of us than you.
> Australia wide, & you might just bump into somebody that remembers you & your mouth, especially if they've lost money at hands of wealth 'spruikers'
> 
> Vicki






OneDayWealth said:


> I don't care and would LOVE to meet any of you who abused and spread lies and inuendo. LOVE love love it! Can't wait!!
> 
> Don't be silly yourself Vicki. My course costs $5,000 (check). The extra personal coaching is a product that I was asked to make so someone could buy it with a proper invoice. Not sure how it made it onto the "featured" items on my shopping cart. It's been removed now.
> 
> Most of my courses were sold for $1,800, about 1/4 at $5k and I've sold about half a dozen personal coaching gigs.
> 
> "I" need to be careful of the insults? I'm being massacred here by fools and babies and *I* have to be careful? I don't think so. If anything it's you guys who need to be careful. Destroying a person's reputation and causing real business harm is illegal and a low act which many of you seem to be reveling in so that really does say more about you guys than it does about me.
> 
> I'm an honest guy with honest and real results selling a real product to real people who really appreciate it. My conscience is crystal clear.
> 
> For the record I don't actually want any more clients. Is that what you guys think? I want more clients? I wouldn't even have most of you as members...I'm just here to defend myself not to get more clients.
> 
> That's the last thing I want. Too many other things going on to "need" to do anything. I don't and have never "needed" to sell any courses to anyone. I was forced (by constant suggestion) to get what I do on tape and made into a product that people have loved incidentally. But I'm guessing that you guys would never believe a real testimonial without wanting to see proof of their trading as well...lol



Hundreds paying $5k each plus six paying $40k each generates $740k a year. 

Not bad for a person that learnt all about trading options in one year of trading them started teaching others the secrets of his success.
The reality would be that you (and anyone else reading this thread) would have learnt more about how to trade and manage your trading from reading the posts to this thread over the last 24 hours.


----------



## tech/a

This is the most amazing example of* "Self Assassination" *I have ever seen.

I guarantee you that if you Google Bill Stacy this thread will keep rearing its ugly head for years to come.

From a business point of view ---sheer Lunacy.
Look back on others who have screamed innocence.

Shappell Corby
Lindy Chamberlain
Bill Clinton

*Vicki*
I congratulate you--Job Done.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> Correct. I'm not in this to make money buying something for 95c and selling it for 96c. I need a decent move. Not massive. Just decent enough so all those things have little effect on the bottom line. A "decent" move will happen several times a day but in my experience most people will rarely catch more than 3 or 4 of them a week. Any one of which could supply more than enough profit to live on.




I don't agree that you are profiting from a decent sized move. You're overcoming slippage and brokerage by investing the entire "bank".

If analyzed on a per contract basis, the spot moved ~10-15c, with the option +5.5c
That is only $55 gain per contract. The brokerage fee by itself is $155.75 [assuming bulk charge]. You'd need to trade at least 3 contracts just to cover brokerage. Risk $2.7k to make $0 [90c/contract] before incremental gains.

If the option were to go only 5c against you [and assuming one can offset at that level] thats a total loss of:
([$50 x 22] + 155.75) = ~$1,255

That's ~6.3% loss on a 20k "bank".
No thanks.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> Well again, double that 20k bank, verify it, then hand the Mod. a bank cheque for 20k made out to the Royal Childrens Hospital!
> 
> people may hold you in a higher regard then, & if they dont, so what, you've publically donated to worthy cause.
> 
> 
> Go'n 2 bed




If I can be assured that I will be treated with respect I might be open to something like that. Who'll put up the cash though?


----------



## wayneL

tech/a said:


> This is the most amazing example of* "Self Assassination" *I have ever seen.
> 
> I guarantee you that if you Google Bill Stacy this thread will keep rearing its ugly head for years to come.
> 
> From a business point of view ---sheer Lunacy.




I wonder if Bill will wake up this morning and realise what he's done? 

<edit> Nope


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Now this is incontrovertible evidence that you are deluding yourself.
> 
> So far we have established:
> 
> You promote the least efficient instrument for daytrading.
> You do not fully understand the instrument you trade.
> Have zero understanding of alternative instruments.
> Are not prepared to offer real time proof of success.
> Have great difficulty understanding simple concepts.
> Use logical fallacy to attempt to defend yourself.
> Do not understand money/cash management.
> That you believe this is doing your reputation any good.
> 
> And that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure I could find more going back trough this thread.
> 
> Your choice dude, but I'm reminded of the old adage - When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.




I'm not in a hole. If anything they will come and see how I defended myself against nameless stone throwers. You are worng on your points above by the way. I stand tall. 



nulla nulla said:


> This contradicts an earlier posts where you advised that you don't answer the phone when you are trading.




No it doesn't. If I'm coaching someone I'm not trading myself. 



nulla nulla said:


> Hundreds paying $5k each plus six paying $40k each generates $740k a year.
> 
> Not bad for a person that learnt all about trading options in one year of trading them started teaching others the secrets of his success.
> The reality would be that you (and anyone else reading this thread) would have learnt more about how to trade and manage your trading from reading the posts to this thread over the last 24 hours.




You're so smart. That's over a 3 year period and what's your problem with that? Don't like people selling products? Don't like people making money? There are countries that you can go and live in that will cater to your politics. 



tech/a said:


> This is the most amazing example of* "Self Assassination" *I have ever seen.
> 
> I guarantee you that if you Google Bill Stacy this thread will keep rearing its ugly head for years to come.
> 
> From a business point of view ---sheer Lunacy.
> Look back on others who have screamed innocence.
> 
> Shappell Corby
> Lindy Chamberlain
> Bill Clinton
> 
> *Vicki*
> I congratulate you--Job Done.




I think it's an excellent thread and I hope it stays up high! It shows how I was attacked by mjorons and I stood and defended myself. It will also show how you are all nameless gutless babies with nothing better to do than tear down people who dare to go out and do something different. Typically Australian. Good onya. 



mazzatelli said:


> I don't agree that you are profiting from a decent sized move. You're overcoming slippage and brokerage by investing the entire "bank".
> 
> If analyzed on a per contract basis, the spot moved ~10-15c, with the option +5.5c
> That is only $55 gain per contract. The brokerage fee by itself is $155.75 [assuming bulk charge]. You'd need to trade at least 3 contracts just to cover brokerage. Risk $2.7k to make $0 [90c/contract] before incremental gains.
> 
> If the option were to go only 5c against you [and assuming one can offset at that level] thats a total loss of:
> ([$50 x 22] + 155.75) = ~$1,255
> 
> That's ~6.3% loss on a 20k "bank".
> No thanks.




You don't understand. 

Why don't you all sign your names? Too scared?


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> I wonder if Bill will wake up this morning and realise what he's done?
> 
> <edit> Nope




I'm proud of this thread. You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves!


----------



## wayneL

I rest my case.


----------



## prawn_86

wow, Bill musn't have got much sleep last night.

Amusing start to a monday morning for me however


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> I rest my case.




I wish you would but somehow I doubt it...lol.

What's your full name Wayne?


----------



## Wysiwyg

tech/a said:


> This is the most amazing example of* "Self Assassination" *I have ever seen.
> 
> I guarantee you that if you Google Bill Stacy this thread will keep rearing its ugly head for years to come.
> 
> From a business point of view ---sheer Lunacy.



Could be aiming for the sympathetic types as (hopefully) all the gullible types are now enlightened.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> wow, Bill musn't have got much sleep last night.
> 
> Amusing start to a monday morning for me however




I slept like very well actually. As I do every night. 

By the way, what's your full name?


----------



## satanoperca

Hi Bill,

Think of the wonderful business opportunity that lays in front of you on this forum. All you have to do is provide some live trades, something that will keep the wolves at bay and prove that you system/trading plan works and is profitable. If you were able to do this then I'm sure you would have hundreds of ASF members lining up at your door to get into your courses.

By trying to defend yourself and then get caught up in spit for spat communication has not done your professional identity well. So get on with it and show everyone the money, some live trades. 

It really is that simple or just continue playing with the wolves (some of them have well and truly proved their credentials) as they will eventually eat you no matter how good you are.

Cheers

Have a great day trading


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> By the way, what's your full name?




That doesnt matter. As a mod we obviously dont give these details out.



satanoperca said:


> By trying to defend yourself and then get caught up in spit for spat communication has not done your professional identity well. So get on with it and show everyone the money, some live trades.




People have been saying this for 18 pages now yet he still doesnt get it.

I'll keep laughing as i check in throughout the day


----------



## builder2818

Morning all....is Monday another day and another 17 pages on this thread? I liked the video you put up Bill, I wouldn't trade options like you do but if it works for you, good stuff.

At least you get to stay at home and do what ever you want because as you say you haven't worked since 2004. The other 99% of us on this forum are going to their normal jobs, except me because I got laid off just before xmas hooray! The governments BER program really pulled the Australian economy out of the GFC - only to make hundreds unemployed at this holiday time.

With the way Vicki posts, I get the feeling that she isn't satisfied with how Jamie McIntyre taught her to rent her shares (had to put that word in for you Wayne) and she wants something a little more - hoping to maybe pick it up for free or pestering one of the mods to let her get her hands on it if Bill passes it on to them.


----------



## OneDayWealth

satanoperca said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Think of the wonderful business opportunity that lays in front of you on this forum. All you have to do is provide some live trades, something that will keep the wolves at bay and prove that you system/trading plan works and is profitable. If you were able to do this then I'm sure you would have hundreds of ASF members lining up at your door to get into your courses.
> 
> By trying to defend yourself and then get caught up in spit for spat communication has not done your professional identity well. So get on with it and show everyone the money, some live trades.
> 
> It really is that simple or just continue playing with the wolves (some of them have well and truly proved their credentials) as they will eventually eat you no matter how good you are.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Have a great day trading




Thank you Satan. But as I explained before, I can not provide live trades as I'm trading and besides, these types of people are never happy. I can only tell people what I have just done and I've been doing that for years. The proof is already out there. I've been doing this for many years and like I said before many times I don't actually want any more business. I'm just on here defending myself against nameless thugs who I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want as members anyway to be honest. 

The way I've been treated on this forum is disgusting, unfair and totally unwarranted. What we have here is sad people who will pick on and destroy everything that comes within their sites. No one here wants the real truth - which has been offered many times - they just want to destroy me because I represent something different. A different point of view and a more profitable way of trading. 

I am providing a real solution for those who want a better life but the nameless thugs and babies on here just want to keep attacking and the funny part is they (as you can see from the comments) think they are winning. They are of course not winning anything but just shining the light on themselves, their own inadequacies and insecurities. 

I'm doing nothing wrong, I've been helping people for years and I plan to continue doing so for as long as people want a better life and are looking for an alternative trading style that is powerful to actually make a few decent bucks. I'm proud of what I do, I'm proud of what I am and I'm proud to be here fighting thugs who are so scared of being identified for the ignorant pigs that they are that they don't even sign their names.


----------



## awg

Hi Bill Stacy

I think it is good and proper that you be allowed to defend yourself against all
allegations. That way people can make up their own minds

However, by questioning the bonafides of WayneL and Mazza, amongst others,
you really are making a fool of yourself, as it is very obvious to long-term viewers, they DO know what they are talking about, 

but you dont address their specifics ?

Also, challenging them to put their real names on a public forum is absurd.

What next...mobile phones nos, street addy and punch on mate ?


----------



## nunthewiser

mornin billy

any live trades this mornin ?


----------



## OneDayWealth

awg said:


> Hi Bill Stacy
> 
> I think it is good and proper that you be allowed to defend yourself against all
> allegations. That way people can make up their own minds
> 
> However, by questioning the bonafides of WayneL and Mazza, amongst others,
> you really are making a fool of yourself, as it is very obvious to long-term viewers, they DO know what they are talking about,
> 
> but you dont address their specifics ?
> 
> Also, challenging them to put their real names on a public forum is absurd.
> 
> What next...mobile phones nos, street addy and punch on mate ?




I have answered every single one of their specifics!

I don't know one anonymous attacker from another AWG. I'm not a regular here so to me they are all hiding behind boxes throwing acid at me then running and hiding. Gutless and disgusting behaviour from people that you all say are "upstanding". All I can do is answer each claim, insult and slanderous statement as they are printed. 

I have addressed every single criticism but they are not happy and I suspect because they are so embarrassed at getting so many things wrong never will be. I've offered proof - they rejected it as fraudulent. I was accused of not even trading myself - I do, often and profitably - an insult. I ask their names not so much so I can punch on but just as a common courtesy. I have always used my full real name on all forums. I never hide behind a false name. I think that if they are going to set about to try to destroy a man's business and reputation they would at least have the guts to use their real names.

That says it all for me. If they are warrior enough to destroy a man then they should be warrior enough to stand up and take it but no...they strike and hide like the terrorists that they are.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> mornin billy
> 
> any live trades this mornin ?




Market doesn't open for a few minutes (it opens at 10am AEST) and I try not to trade before 11am for obvious reasons but yes, today I'm on the hunt.


----------



## Wysiwyg

There might be a buck or two to be made on the motivational speaking circuit! 

Smooth with the words, pump up the crowd to "connect" with their inner strength, open their eyes to the massive amounts of money just waiting to be   made by anyone willing to "learn" the way. Throw in a hot coals walk to really get the crowd amped up and while the crowd is in such a euphoric state, break out the contracts for an educational program (name your price here).  

There you go. A starter pack for free.


----------



## prawn_86

Its amazing how some people can actually beleive their own marketing talk if they continue to repeat it over and over


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Market doesn't open for a few minutes (it opens at 10am AEST) and I try not to trade before 11am for obvious reasons but yes, today I'm on the hunt.






cool , how about posting up some entrys and exits in real time today then bill?


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> cool , how about posting up some entrys and exits in real time today then bill?




We've been over the real time factor and I've said quite a few times now that when I'm trading I'm focusing on the trade. Besides, if I post real time trades there is a danger that some traders might follow me. My licensee has warned me never to do that to avoid influencing others so really I can not offer a real time trades. 

Depending on how much faceless abuse I get today I may post my trades but some of the thugs will always find something to gripe or whinge about because they really want to destroy anyone more successful than they are or with new ideas so I'm really not sure what the point would be. If you want proof that options move enough to make money just look at the market. It's not hard.


----------



## explod

Why is this rubbish on the front page of ASF.

It should be in the discusion area with some of my rubbish.


----------



## OneDayWealth

explod said:


> Why is this rubbish on the front page of ASF.
> 
> It should be in the discusion area with some of my rubbish.




Thanks for your valuable input.


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> We've been over the real time factor and I've said quite a few times now that when I'm trading I'm focusing on the trade. Besides, if I post real time trades there is a danger that some traders might follow me. My licensee has warned me never to do that to avoid influencing others so really I can not offer a real time trades.
> 
> Depending on how much faceless abuse I get today I may post my trades but some of the thugs will always find something to gripe or whinge about because they really want to destroy anyone more successful than they are or with new ideas so I'm really not sure what the point would be. If you want proof that options move enough to make money just look at the market. It's not hard.




From a legal perspective a live call from a vendor selling his wares could be a can of worms for both you and the site.

Surely you could mention which company you are looking at today though

Anyone that's looked at your vids will have a fair idea of you trade anyway, calling out the underlying your going to trade in advance would remove a lot of the skepticism about any potential cherrypicking of trades at the end of the day.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Depending on how much faceless abuse I get today I may post my trades but some of the thugs will always find something to gripe or whinge about because they really want to destroy anyone more successful than they are or with new ideas so I'm really not sure what the point would be. If you want proof that options move enough to make money just look at the market. It's not hard.




There is no denying options move and there is money to be made.

we just want real time proof that you actually trade and that you are as succesful as you claim to be.

not hard really.


----------



## OneDayWealth

professor_frink said:


> From a legal perspective a live call from a vendor selling his wares could be a can of worms for both you and the site.
> 
> Surely you could mention which company you are looking at today though
> 
> Anyone that's looked at your vids will have a fair idea of you trade anyway, calling out the underlying your going to trade in advance would remove a lot of the skepticism about any potential cherrypicking of trades at the end of the day.




Thank you Professor. I don't know what I'm going to trade until I trade it. I do no pre-judging as there is very little fundamental analysis used. I use mostly the top ten stocks on the ASX and I trade what I see.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> There is no denying options move and there is money to be made.
> 
> we just want real time proof that you actually trade and that you are as succesful as you claim to be.
> 
> not hard really.




I have never provided real time trades and as stated maybe a dozen times already in this thread I don't do anything while I trade but trade. After the true fact is about as much as you're likely to get. But you know what's going to happen. Theye will always be someone to attack some aspect of it because that's the nature of the beast within many of you (from what I have seen displayed on this forum). 

I could take a thousand camtasia live recordings and I'll still be attacked by the reds on here. Success intimidates hateful weak people and no matter I say or do they will never be happy. 

Fact: This works
Fact: I've been trading like this for years
Fact: I have trained hudreds of others to do the same
Fact: I have nothing to prove that has not already been proven hundreds of times.


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> Thank you Professor. I don't know what I'm going to trade until I trade it. I do no pre-judging as there is very little fundamental analysis used. I use mostly the top ten stocks on the ASX and I trade what I see.




Sweet as Bill. That indirectly answers a couple of questions I had, so thanks for that.

Will be keeping an eye on the range breakouts with some interest if we get any today


----------



## OneDayWealth

professor_frink said:


> Sweet as Bill. That indirectly answers a couple of questions I had, so thanks for that.
> 
> Will be keeping an eye on the range breakouts with some interest if we get any today




It has to be long enough for the option to move so at least 1% move on the underlying. If you have done Steven Jennings course on Day Trading you will now about "Z" days. Z days make great and very profitable trading days but they need to be at least an average size. If you get on a real zinger it's possible to make 50% or more. 

Here's a breakdown of what to expect...

100% trades - about 1 or 2 a year
50%+ trades - about 3 or 4 a year
25%+ trades - 1 or 2 a month
15%+ trades - 1 or 2 a month
5-10% trades - 2 or 3 per week

Many great trades appear almost every day but catching them is a different matter. Just because a trade is there and happening doesn't mean you will be on it. Those figures above are what I expect a decent disciplined and practiced trader to actually get.


----------



## professor_frink

Never heard Of Steve Jennings, or the concept of a z day. 

Google doesn't really help either, care to expand a little?


----------



## awg

I do admire that you are on the front foot here.

However, my opinion is that you are trying to sell a service, as much as defend your reputation.

I dont trade options, but you must surely be aware that some participants on this forum are experienced option traders. 

I never said they were "upstanding" :, merely that I dont believe you have responded to their specific criticisms as *****ougly as you have to more personal attacks.


Did you not state in an earlier post that you previously had posts deleted from this thread?..does that not imply that you had "bumped heads" with moderators before??...and did those mods have a knowledge of options?

Of course, I could be wrong..

Finally, I agree that many posters on this forum are cynical, and can be ruthless hiding behind a keyboard.


----------



## OneDayWealth

A "Z" day is a day that simply starts on it's high and ends on it's low or vica versa. They are usually quite large and easy to trade. Usually follow a narrow range day too.


----------



## nunthewiser

OneDayWealth said:


> Fact: This works
> Fact: I've been trading like this for years
> Fact: I have trained hudreds of others to do the same
> Fact: I have nothing to prove that has not already been proven hundreds of times.




Looks like we back to the "blind faith" subject again bud.

You say the above and people expected to believe it without any proof.

I personally am still trying to work out if your course is just another scam or if you are a genuine expert succesful trader with worthy knowledge to sell on to benefit people at a very high cost.

"all that glitters isnt gold" springs to mind when reading these tales of easy wealth and riches but hey i could be wrong.

anyhoo , it does not look like any proof of trading/proof of success/or even that you trade will be coming forthwith, so i wish you well and have a good day.


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> A "Z" day is a day that simply starts on it's high and ends on it's low or vica versa. They are usually quite large and easy to trade. Usually follow a narrow range day too.




ok then, so there is some kind of end of day analysis performed then. Thanks for that.


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> I could take a thousand camtasia live recordings and I'll still be attacked by the reds on here. Success intimidates hateful weak people and no matter I say or do they will never be happy.




Actually while I'm here I might as well wade into the debate a little further!

Just on this point:

If you think that people here are intimidated by success then you are sorely mistaken

There are quite a few decent traders on this forum, and some that swing a fairly decent line when they trade. There have been quite a few vendors who have shown up here to try and promote their businesses(either directly like yourself, or indirectly by trying to deceive posters by posing as satisfied customers).

When a vendor shows up to post on the forum and brushes over what most experienced traders consider to be fairly basic ideas like proper position sizing, then you have to expect some kind of questioning and a bit of grief.

Looking at the videos on your site, and all people can see is you hypothetically trading intraday breakouts which almost never fails, using time and sales of illiquid option series to estimate entries and exits, and then spending a lot of time talking about how many thousands of dollars "could have" been made.

Is it really surprising that you are copping a bit of grief when that's all that people have to run with? Especially so, considering that there are quite a few people on the forum here who have been making a living from trading for longer than you've actually been trading.

If you had independently audited results from a reputable, well known source then you'd find that people would stop giving you grief.

Pretty simple really.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nunthewiser said:


> Looks like we back to the "blind faith" subject again bud.
> 
> You say the above and people expected to believe it without any proof.
> 
> I personally am still trying to work out if your course is just another scam or if you are a genuine expert succesful trader with worthy knowledge to sell on to benefit people at a very high cost.
> 
> "all that glitters isnt gold" springs to mind when reading these tales of easy wealth and riches but hey i could be wrong.
> 
> anyhoo , it does not look like any proof of trading/proof of success/or even that you trade will be coming forthwith, so i wish you well and have a good day.




I've offered lots of proof and it's all been on display on my forum for years. I appreciate that you are leaving a little window open in case I'm not all the things people have accused me off in this thread. To be honest I'm a bit surprised to hear you say that but I'm glad you did. 

Pick your leader and have him call me and we'll discuss how I can get you guys to believe that I am everything I say I am and that your skills CAN be put to use as an options day trader. It's just not as easy as it in the US so you have to know a few techniques tips and tricks to finding the right layout and knowing where to look and what to expect. 

I know what you are saying about people who are not genuine and offer no real skill but I'm not like that. You'd have to know me to know that. I used to be a **** kicker welder. Hated my life as a worker and was always looking for another way to make money. I eventually went to one of these wealth course and the options trading peaked my interest. I investigated, gave it a go and found it quite simple. I got "pretty good" at it and was invited to share what I know. That lead to a partnership and eventually to my own course. 

I'm just a dude that discovered options, saw them move during the day enough to make a profit. Did some further investigating, a few day trading courses from the US (Harvey Walsh is excellent) and started to work out how to day trade options which no one teaches for the Australian market. 

I never had any intention of being an educator until one day I made 7k in front of my friend while he watched and he was so excited about what he saw that he insisted that I teach him which I did then he insisted that I record it and that lead to the home study course that we're talking about here. 

There is nothing strange going on here. I day trade options. It might seem crazy and weird to a lot of you who never considered options as tradeable during the day but they are. Trust me. Take one look for yourselves and you will see for yourself. It may not be the MOST efficient way to make money but it works for me and it works for people I show how to do it and it sure beats the crap out of going to a stinking job - even if I only make a few grand a week it's still worthwhile so as not to feel trapped in a dead end job. Not everyone loves their job.  

I can not (and am advised not to) offer any real time trades so if that's the ONLY way you will be happy as proof then I guess you're out of luck but to attack me so vociously just because something is not understood was un called for and did a lot of damage to me for no reason. 

*



			"Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean we have to reject it."
		
Click to expand...


*
I day trade options, I teach others how to do it and that's all there really is to it. No malice, no wish to sell a course and run (I'm still here on the same phone number and address I've been at since I started. I don't hide and I answer all my critics as evidenced in this thread.


----------



## OneDayWealth

professor_frink said:


> Actually while I'm here I might as well wade into the debate a little further!
> 
> Just on this point:
> 
> If you think that people here are intimidated by success then you are sorely mistaken
> 
> There are quite a few decent traders on this forum, and some that swing a fairly decent line when they trade. There have been quite a few vendors who have shown up here to try and promote their businesses(either directly like yourself, or indirectly by trying to deceive posters by posing as satisfied customers).
> 
> When a vendor shows up to post on the forum and brushes over what most experienced traders consider to be fairly basic ideas like proper position sizing, then you have to expect some kind of questioning and a bit of grief.
> 
> Looking at the videos on your site, and all people can see is you hypothetically trading intraday breakouts which almost never fails, using time and sales of illiquid option series to estimate entries and exits, and then spending a lot of time talking about how many thousands of dollars "could have" been made.
> 
> Is it really surprising that you are copping a bit of grief when that's all that people have to run with? Especially so, considering that there are quite a few people on the forum here who have been making a living from trading for longer than you've actually been trading.
> 
> If you had independently audited results from a reputable, well known source then you'd find that people would stop giving you grief.
> 
> Pretty simple really.




I don't need to though. I live the life of a day trader and it's very real to me and it would like me proving that air exists. It exists and it's real no matter what Martians believe. 

Look at the trades I have posted on my website and you'll see there is a mix of hypotheticals (a great way to learn is back testing...are you guys against back testing? - surely not) but there is ALSO lots of real trades that I actually did then reported on. The fact that you guys don't believe it does  not make it any less real. They are real. 

And for the record and did not start this thread and I have never tried to sell anything directly on here. I am here defending lies and false accusations as any normal person would.



> ok then, so there is some kind of end of day analysis performed then. Thanks for that.




A little and of course every bit helps. I've found however that predicting a move during the day is not going to make it happen so you still have to trade what is right in front of you.


----------



## prawn_86

Some long responses here for someone that is supposedly 100% focused on trading...


----------



## sails

professor_frink said:


> ...Looking at the videos on your site, and all people can see is you hypothetically trading intraday breakouts which almost never fails, using time and sales of illiquid option series to estimate entries and exits, and then spending a lot of time talking about how many thousands of dollars "could have" been made....




I have also watched the videos and came to the same conclusion, Professor.  It appears that Bill checks to see what the traded prices from the WebIress options "course of sales" screen for the day to choose an entry price. 

I thought he might have recorded these trades live showing the development of the trade together with live bid/ask quotes and with execution of the trade - all being recorded.  But it seems that these recordings are made after the event.

Bill, I look forward to your response to these observations and happy to be shown if my assumptions are wrong.  But, please be honest and don't try to talk your way out of anything.  I have been trading Australian trading options longer than you and know WebIress like the back of my hand.


----------



## builder2818

OneDayWealth said:


> Here you go. I better get an apology!
> 
> Here is a video directly off my course showing me live making $1,000 in 4 minutes buying an ANZ Put. Normally the only people who see this are those who buy my course.
> 
> It shows me performing a real live right before your very eyes option day trade. It reveals my full layouts and shows the "non-existant" software I made to help epopel make super fast decisions.
> 
> Mods. you have to leave this link. It's the "proof" everyone has been asking for. But it's only one trade so I know that won't keep them happy. $50 says they will find some smart comment to try to discredit this proof.
> 
> I'll wait for the apologies.




Wasn't this a live trading video he put up yesterday?


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> I don't need to though. I live the life of a day trader and it's very real to me and it would like me proving that air exists. It exists and it's real no matter what Martians believe.
> 
> Look at the trades I have posted on my website and you'll see there is a mix of hypotheticals (a great way to learn is back testing...are you guys against back testing? - surely not) but there is ALSO lots of real trades that I actually did then reported on. The fact that you guys don't believe it does  not make it any less real. They are real.
> 
> And for the record and did not start this thread and I have never tried to sell anything directly on here. I am here defending lies and false accusations as any normal person would.
> 
> 
> 
> A little and of course every bit helps. I've found however that predicting a move during the day is not going to make it happen so you still have to trade what is right in front of you.




No probs Bill.

Not really fussed about seeing proof personally, I have no interest in signing up for a service I'd not heard of until yesterday, or one where I couldn't properly evaluate what's on offer first. I'll leave you to it.

Enjoy your day


----------



## professor_frink

builder2818 said:


> Wasn't this a live trading video he put up yesterday?




Did anyone watch that? I clicked on it, but chose not to go through opening it up when I saw it was a zip file.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Some long responses here for someone that is supposedly 100% focused on trading...




True, I wouldn't post if I was trading. There was an early run on MQG but I missed it. 



sails said:


> I have also watched the videos and came to the same conclusion, Professor.  It appears that Bill checks to see what the traded prices from the WebIress options "course of sales" screen for the day to choose an entry price.
> 
> I thought he might have recorded these trades live showing the development of the trade together with live bid/ask quotes and with execution of the trade - all being recorded.  But it seems that these recordings are made after the event.
> 
> Bill, I look forward to your response to these observations and happy to be shown if my assumptions are wrong.  But, please be honest and don't try to talk your way out of anything.  I have been trading Australian trading options longer than you and know WebIress like the back of my hand.






builder2818 said:


> Wasn't this a live trading video he put up yesterday?




Thanks.



professor_frink said:


> No probs Bill.
> 
> Not really fussed about seeing proof personally, I have no interest in signing up for a service I'd not heard of until yesterday, or one where I couldn't properly evaluate what's on offer first. I'll leave you to it.
> 
> Enjoy your day




Thanks, will do. 



professor_frink said:


> Did anyone watch that? I clicked on it, but chose not to go through opening it up when I saw it was a zip file.




It's safe to download. It's just a camtasia clip I use in my course to illustrate how I do a real live trade.


----------



## sails

professor_frink said:


> Did anyone watch that? I clicked on it, but chose not to go through opening it up when I saw it was a zip file.




Got it downloaded, but doesn't look like I have the necessary software on my PC to view it.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sails said:


> Got it downloaded, but doesn't look like I have the necessary software on my PC to view it.




You need to play the .html file and it will put it all together. Any browser will work.


----------



## cutz

Made any trades today Bill ?


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Made any trades today Bill ?




I almost got in on MQG (and it would have been a cracker!) but I didn't get my favourite little "squiggle" so I left it. There might be some afternoon action but I generally only like trading new highs and new lows because they're easy to spot. I'm not a very sophisticated analyst. I use big bold signals.


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> I almost got in on MQG (and it would have been a cracker!) but I didn't get my favourite little "squiggle" so I left it. There might be some afternoon action but I generally only like trading new highs and new lows because they're easy to spot. I'm not a very sophisticated analyst. I use big bold signals.




Not much OI in those, the front month ATM put and call hasn't traded yet, would you feel like a sitting duck day swinging MQG oppies ?


----------



## tech/a

> I use big bold signals




Yeh so do I.


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Not much OI in those, the front month ATM put and call hasn't traded yet, would you feel like a sitting duck day swinging MQG oppies ?




OI is irrelevant with day trading. 



tech/a said:


> Yeh so do I.




You're hilarious.


----------



## cutz

OneDayWealth said:


> OI is irrelevant with day trading.




Why ?


----------



## OneDayWealth

cutz said:


> Why ?




As long as there are buyers and sellers (bid/ask) you can judge an exit price and even if there are no buyers you can always sell to the market makers.


----------



## Vicki

> There might be a buck or two to be made on the motivational speaking circuit!
> 
> Smooth with the words, pump up the crowd to "connect" with their inner strength, open their eyes to the massive amounts of money just waiting to be made by anyone willing to "learn" the way. Throw in a hot coals walk to really get the crowd amped up and while the crowd is in such a euphoric state, break out the contracts for an educational program (name your price here).
> 
> There you go. A starter pack for free.




An all to familiar gaff!

As I think pfoffessor said & others have recently said, 
"silence the critics with proof"

And what a great platform to do just that, right here!

Ask for us to agree upon/nominate a trader who's opinion we respect, after which, GIVE HIM A SCHOLARSHIP!!!

a ONCE-OFF, thing where this person could join your program, &/or even get the top-end service you provide, such as when you fly in to their home city, & offer your undivided attention for as long is needed to impart your knowledge!

Then when this 'elected' well known person [on this forum] has completed the training, he can then be 'qualified'  to report back to asf, for all to read about!

What a FANTASTIC opportunity Bill!!!!!

Silence critics & promote good business, all in one!

How 'bout it?


Vicki


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> you can always sell to the market makers.




I dont know much about options but i swear you have said before you try to avoid selling to MM's...


----------



## professor_frink

Vicki said:


> An all to familiar gaff!
> 
> As I think pfoffessor said & others have recently said,
> "silence the critics with proof"
> 
> And what a great platform to do just that, right here!
> 
> Ask for us to agree upon/nominate a trader who's opinion we respect, after which, GIVE HIM A SCHOLARSHIP!!!
> 
> a ONCE-OFF, thing where this person could join your program, &/or even get the top-end service you provide, such as when you fly in to their home city, & offer your undivided attention for as long is needed to impart your knowledge!
> 
> Then when this 'elected' well known person [on this forum] has completed the training, he can then be 'qualified'  to report back to asf, for all to read about!
> 
> What a FANTASTIC opportunity Bill!!!!!
> 
> Silence critics & promote good business, all in one!
> 
> How 'bout it?
> 
> 
> Vicki




Vicki,

I think if Bill was going to provide any kind of concrete proof then it would have arrived by now, there's really no point continually asking IMO.

Perhaps it's time to treat this is as a lesson learned. The unfortunate reality is that most beginners have no place trying to participate in the derivatives markets without extensive knowledge, preparation and training. A lot of people shouldn't even be trying to trade the market at all, in any timeframe.

Perhaps next time you hear someone telling you that anyone can make <<insert outlandish claim here>> by simply doing a short course and then having a computer, internet connection and broker(with the obvious implication that you can just click a couple of buttons from your soon to be purchased yacht and watch the cash roll in), then you'll react with a slightly healthier level of skepticism, and do a bit more due dilligence before forking over your hard earned.

Sorry to sound harsh here, but pretty well everything to do with learning how to trade and invest(in anything, not just shares and derivatives) is going to have you swimming with sharks whilst you figure things out for yourself. Get educated, do your due diligence and you'll have more success in the future!


----------



## Vicki

> Sorry to sound harsh here, but pretty well everything to do with learning how to trade and invest(in anything, not just shares and derivatives) is going to have you swimming with sharks whilst you figure things out for yourself. Get educated, do your due diligence and you'll have more success in the future!




That's a very good insight Professor!
Thats precisely why we should at least keep the sharks out of the "kiddies" pool!

Regards,
           Vicki


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> I have answered every single one of their specifics!




You have not answered my questions. How much is the max loss per capital you recommend to live the dream Bill in percentage terms of capital, or in your words "bank".

Whats your win rate long term. You have been asked many times but give nothing of note in reply.



OneDayWealth said:


> I don't know one anonymous attacker from another AWG. I'm not a regular here so to me they are all hiding behind boxes throwing acid at me then running and hiding. Gutless and disgusting behaviour from people that you all say are "upstanding". All I can do is answer each claim, insult and slanderous statement as they are printed.
> 
> I have addressed every single criticism but they are not happy and I suspect because they are so embarrassed at getting so many things wrong never will be. I've offered proof - they rejected it as fraudulent. I was accused of not even trading myself - I do, often and profitably - an insult. I ask their names not so much so I can punch on but just as a common courtesy. I have always used my full real name on all forums. I never hide behind a false name. I think that if they are going to set about to try to destroy a man's business and reputation they would at least have the guts to use their real names.
> 
> That says it all for me. If they are warrior enough to destroy a man then they should be warrior enough to stand up and take it but no...they strike and hide like the terrorists that they are.



I will meet you.
Bill you are in Adelaide? I'm unfortunately there often.
I will happily pick the **** out of your lies in person if you allow me to record the conversation.




OneDayWealth said:


> a great way to learn is back testing...are you guys against back testing? - surely not



You know nothing of back testing Bill *nothing!!!!!! *have a look at this little collection and either admit you know nothing of system design/backtesting and haven't back tested the concept let alone kept metrics on an ongoing basis or address the points repeatedly raised showing that you have a grasp of your system and its expected performance or even some answers that show basic trading knowlage.



mazzatelli said:


> Oh I see: brokerage, margin, slippage - all not important when developing  trading systems/models.



 your answer, amazingly,


OneDayWealth said:


> Correct.



 Then 


cutz said:


> Bill,
> So what's your win loss ratio ?
> In other words for every ten trades how many are winners averaged over say a year, not a 4 day streak.



We get nothing,

so I ask,


Trembling Hand said:


> Whats the average loss per trade in dollar terms your clients would take on a $20,000 account. And whats a reasonable win rate buddy?



 You give something about 15%-10% but will not say if thats of capital or option price.

Then you give this absolute rolled gold confused rubbish.



OneDayWealth said:


> Not sure. Never measured the average loss. I don't collect and analyse everyone's trades. I have better things to do with my time.
> 
> *Win/loss rates only apply and are relevant when the losses and wins are all the exact same amount.* By that I mean that every win is the same size and every loss is the same size. Profits and losses vary wildly depending on the discipline of the trade (as I'm sure you know).




Massive warning to anyone buying this "system". Clearly he hasn't tested it in fact would seem he doesn't even know how to test a system.


----------



## professor_frink

Vicki said:


> That's a very good insight Professor!
> Thats precisely why we should at least keep the sharks out of the "kiddies" pool!
> 
> Regards,
> Vicki




Vicki, unfortunately when it comes to making money, there is no kiddies  pool. When it comes to trading any kind of financial instrument, the closest thing to a kiddies pool is simulation/paper trading and back testing. Even then there are no guarantees, and there are still costs - as you are well aware of now, a lot of courses aren't cheap, and come with no guarantees that you are getting a good education. The cost of things like books can add up quite quickly, and a lot of those are pretty well rubbish as well.

There are really only a couple of points I'd make to help you on your way:

Read through as much of the forum as you can. You'll find that most major topics are covered here in one way or another, take notes whilst you do so. If you find posts that you like, and the person that made them is still active on the forum, then send them a message if you have questions. Most people here are here not just to game others for information and ideas, they are generally going to be happy to help beginners if you ask nicely.

The only other thing I'd add is that if something can be tested, then it should be. Test and question everything and you'll be well on your way to developing some kind of skill.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Great point and good to see more normal posts creeping in to this thread.

I myself have spent at least 30k on courses and books and seminars...etc. I don't use most of what I learnt (I reckon) but use bits of what I learnt from every course to get a "feeling" that is hard to put into words about a stock. Does that make all the people who sold me courses I didn't use or didn't find I could relate to sharks? No, of course not. That would be childish as we all know. I have no ill feelings toward any of the people who sold me courses and I NEVER blame anyone else for my trading losses - that's loser talk. I take what I learn and apply it to what I know and do the best I can. Just like everyone else.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> I will meet you. Bill you are in Adelaide? I'm unfortunately there often. I will happily pick the **** out of your lies in person if you allow me to record the conversation.




I'm not even going to attempt to answer your other drivel but bring it! I have never lied once about anything on here and I would LOVE to confront anyone who wants to call me names.


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> Great point and good to see more normal posts creeping in to this thread.
> 
> I myself have spent at least 30k on courses and books and seminars...etc. I don't use most of what I learnt (I reckon) but use bits of what I learnt from every course to get a "feeling" that is hard to put into words about a stock. Does that make all the people who sold me courses I didn't use or didn't find I could relate to sharks? No, of course not. That would be childish as we all know. I have no ill feelings toward any of the people who sold me courses and I NEVER blame anyone else for my trading losses - that's loser talk. I take what I learn and apply it to what I know and do the best I can. Just like everyone else.




The tone of some of the posts in here may have changed Bill, but the message is still the same.

If someone rang me tomorrow and asked me what I thought of your course, I'd tell them to stay away.

But don't be upset, I'd say that about almost any course aimed at beginners that costs thousands of dollars - if it costs a lot of money, and a person isn't in a position to be able to tell if there is value in it, then it's not going to be worth doing IMO.


----------



## OneDayWealth

professor_frink said:


> The tone of some of the posts in here may have changed Bill, but the message is still the same.
> 
> If someone rang me tomorrow and asked me what I thought of your course, I'd tell them to stay away.
> 
> But don't be upset, I'd say that about almost any course aimed at beginners that costs thousands of dollars - if it costs a lot of money, and a person isn't in a position to be able to tell if there is value in it, then it's not going to be worth doing IMO.




I agree. I wouldn't do a course either unless I had a very good idea what I was going to get. I would expect you to put people off buying a course you yourself knew nothing about. That's just sensible advice.


----------



## Vicki

> The only other thing I'd add is that if something can be tested, then it should be. Test and question everything and you'll be well on your way to developing some kind of skill.




Point taken.


Vicki


----------



## trainspotter

OneDayWealth said:


> I'm not even going to attempt to answer your other drivel but bring it! I have never lied once about anything on here and I would LOVE to confront anyone who wants to call me names.




So you gonna meet Trembling Hand in Adelaide or WHAT ?


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> I'm not even going to attempt to answer your other drivel but bring it! I have never lied once about anything on here and I would LOVE to confront anyone who wants to call me names.




I will let you know when I'm in Adelaide next. Looking forward to it.

And of course you will not address the points. Because they will just dig a huge hole for you. 

As in have you back tested this "system"? No answer.
If so whats the win rate and how does that compare to you trading of the system on a live basis? No answer.
Whats the max loss to stop out at as a % of account? No answer.
Why have you not replied to one question about money management? No answer.
Why would you day trade something that has a large spread? No answer.
Why would you day trade something that hasn't a delta of 1? No answer.
How is it at all possible to live off a $20,000 account considering the smallest drawdown & a month or so living expenses would put you in a drawdown that would half your account? No answer.
Why don't you understand the simplest concept of Derivatives margins, LOL?  No answer.

As it stands you will follow the normal internet for snake oilers 101 rules. Thats is point out as much stuff as you can without addressing specific questions. Thats a common tactic.


----------



## professor_frink

OneDayWealth said:


> I agree. I wouldn't do a course either unless I had a very good idea what I was going to get. I would expect you to put people off buying a course you yourself knew nothing about. That's just sensible advice.




I'm glad you saw my post in the way it was intended Bill, and not as an out and out personal attack.

Having said that, you've been posting here constantly for the better part of 2 days, and haven't managed to actually win anyone over(not that I think that was ever your intention).

There has been many, many chances for you to directly and indirectly demonstrate that you have a sound knowledge of the options market and trading in general, and you've pretty well failed miserably in my opinion.

My comment that I would tell someone not to do your course isn't just based on the fact that I don't know much about your course, but mainly on the fact that after seeing all of your posts here over the past couple of days, I have serious doubts as to the level of knowledge you possess, and don't think that you could possibly provide anything that would be valuable enough to charge thousands of dollars for.

I think I've had my rant now. I'll head off into the sunset and leave this thread alone, it's beginning to go around in circles a bit.

Cheers


----------



## Vicki

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by OneDayWealth View Post
> I'm not even going to attempt to answer your other drivel but bring it! I have never lied once about anything on here and I would LOVE to confront anyone who wants to call me names.
> So you gonna meet Trembling Hand in Adelaide or WHAT ?




So we finally have a "sit-down"!

Trembling hand is the man Bill, our nomanee by proxy, if you will.
The guy who volanteered to find out if you're the next "shane warne" 
i.e. "SPIN KING" or, a bloody genius, worthy of our attention!

Vicki

p.s.I can hardly wait!


----------



## nulla nulla

Vicki said:


> That's a very good insight Professor!
> Thats precisely why we should at least keep the sharks out of the "kiddies" pool!
> 
> Regards,
> Vicki




And the kiddies out of the sharks pool.


----------



## nunthewiser

WTF?

I already splashed out on Tim Tams!


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> I will let you know when I'm in Adelaide next. Looking forward to it.
> 
> And of course you will not address the points. Because they will just dig a huge hole for you.
> 
> As in have you back tested this "system"? No answer.
> If so whats the win rate and how does that compare to you trading of the system on a live basis? Answered.
> Whats the max loss to stop out at as a % of account?  Answered.
> Why have you not replied to one question about money management? Answered
> Why would you day trade something that has a large spread? Answered.
> Why would you day trade something that hasn't a delta of 1? Answered.
> How is it at all possible to live off a $20,000 account considering the smallest drawdown & a month or so living expenses would put you in a drawdown that would half your account? lol - pay attention.
> Why don't you understand the simplest concept of Derivatives margins, LOL?  Answered.
> 
> As it stands you will follow the normal internet for snake oilers 101 rules. Thats is point out as much stuff as you can without addressinfg specific questions. Thats a common tactic.




Listen smart mouth I have stood and faired your abuse for 24 hours and hundreds of replies and if you think I "fear" your questions I laugh in your face bercause I've been drilled on this by people much better than you and I used to take calls on this daily. Go and search the posts for all your answers above. I will answer any questions you put to me but I was going to invite you into my house and have you sit with me while I give you the full personal explanation but if you're going to be aggressive and confrontational then forget it. I've got better things to do than entertain fools. If you want to act civil and ask your questions (most of which I've already answered SEVERAL TIMES) like a curious person then you are welcome but I'm not in the habit of inviting idiots into my house. 

But first...let's start with some common courtesies...what's your real full name? Yes, out here in the forum where everyone can see who you are. 

I've been recorded heaps of times but I'll have my video cameras for my own verification and even to use as an excellent marketing tool should I ever decide to continue selling my course.


----------



## prawn_86

Ahh its the old meeting backfilp with a twist hey?

Trying everything in his power to make it look like TH is the one skipping out on the meeting.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> But first...let's start with some common courtesies...what's your real full name? Yes, out here in the forum where everyone can see who you are.




Here we go 

The back peddling begins.

There is no reason for my name to be in the public. Many here know it and have meet me. You too can be one if you want but there no reason to post my name on a forum. What would that prove?


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Ahh its the old meeting backfilp with a twist hey?
> 
> Trying everything in his power to make it look like TH is the one skipping out on the meeting.




Oh I see, you would gladly invite an aggressive abusive man into your house? I don;t think so and I'm not skipping anything. I love talking about day trading options. I just want the man to identify himself in public so we all know who's coming and to show that he's not afraid of putting his name to his accusations. 



Trembling Hand said:


> Here we go
> 
> The back peddling begins.
> 
> There is no reason for my name to be in the public. Many here know it and have meet me. You too can be one if you want but there no reason to post my name on a forum. What would that prove?




See above. EVERYONE who has attacked me here has refused to give their real names. That is so gutless that I find it almost impossible to fathom how you have the gall to attack someone behind a cloke of secrecy and still expect to be taken seriously. That's a low and gutless act and if you are not willing to state your name then I will meet with someone who is. What are you so afraid of?


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> See above. EVERYONE who has attacked me here has refused to give their real names. That is so gutless that I find it almost impossible to fathom how you have the gall to attack someone behind a cloke of secrecy and still expect to be taken seriously. That's a low and gutless act and if you are not willing to state your name then I will meet with someone who is. What are you so afraid of?




Nothing. you will get my name. As has everyone else who I have meet from this place. And a fair few that I haven't meet. You will get it no probs but not here.


----------



## OneDayWealth

professor_frink said:


> I'm glad you saw my post in the way it was intended Bill, and not as an out and out personal attack.
> 
> Having said that, you've been posting here constantly for the better part of 2 days, and haven't managed to actually win anyone over(not that I think that was ever your intention).
> 
> There has been many, many chances for you to directly and indirectly demonstrate that you have a sound knowledge of the options market and trading in general, and you've pretty well failed miserably in my opinion.
> 
> My comment that I would tell someone not to do your course isn't just based on the fact that I don't know much about your course, but mainly on the fact that after seeing all of your posts here over the past couple of days, I have serious doubts as to the level of knowledge you possess, and don't think that you could possibly provide anything that would be valuable enough to charge thousands of dollars for.
> 
> I think I've had my rant now. I'll head off into the sunset and leave this thread alone, it's beginning to go around in circles a bit.
> 
> Cheers




My role here is not to "win anyone over" as I have stated several times. I was attacked and I am defending myself against those attacks. Then the lunacy started and I had to sit and explain to all the trolls the basics of something they would never be able to understand (from the looks of it). 

It is no victory to win over nameless attackers who hide behind their keyboards. I would be embarrassed to be associated with 99% of you.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

OneDayWealth said:


> Oh I see, you would gladly invite an aggressive abusive man into your house?




With all due respect, I believe it was you who was the one who insisted on actually meeting up. I'm also guessing he is being an "aggressive abusive man" because we are up to 20 pages and he still hasn't got the answers he is looking for. Most normal people would be frustrated with that. Be fair. 

Also seems to me that a lot of this attacking and name calling you keep having a cry about seems to be coming from you most of the time, others are asking questions, yet you revert back to them calling you names and that you day-trade options. 

Now this isn't an attack, so don't jump on that bandwagon, and I'm not saying anything about your trading, I've well and truly made my mind up about your trading. But maybe just answer the questions, again if you think you've already answered them. He has listed them all there so it should be real easy. Don't say "I have." because clearly everyone but you thinks you haven't. 

I really don't understand why it has to go on this long. Clearly your method of self-defense isn't working otherwise it wouldn't be going on for 20+ pages. If you aren't here to gain customers, then just leave. There is no point being here, unless you want to answer the questions the way people want them answered. Its just pointless continuing on with the same repetitive dribble for 20+ pages, OBVIOUSLY its not working. 

Might want to hold back on the insults too, or do some investigating on the people you're actually attacking in return. They're fantastic traders, who have openly shown the mods their statements to prove their P&L.....and whattaya know, they're highly respected and don't get hassled or questioned. Just listened to, fancy that. 

All the best mate.


----------



## trainspotter

Hmmmmmmmm ...... Why not meet on neutral ground to discuss the subject matter at hand?? Like Canberra for instance.  I could jump on a plane and meet you there as the referee if you like.

P.S. Google rummage "Zeewyk Pearl" for me ..... that's who I am !!


----------



## tech/a

Hasn't this thread run its Course---or his Course---or Discourse.

Seriously there is nothing here for the budding trader.
Lock it up mods!!!!

T/H look me up when in Adelaide.
I'm down South.


----------



## Vicki

doctorponi said:


> I am also a member of OneDayWealth since 2008.* The claims that are being made in this forum about his character and his business is absolutely rubbish.  I have not come across a down to earth character as Bill.  His website and forums are probably the most educational of all sites I have come across including this one.  That is why I join him as a member.  When you join you will be amazed at the constant support he personally gives his students.  Nobody does this anymore these days.  Almost everybody just takes you money and you do not hear from them anymore.  Not the Bill I know.  If you do not believe me then join the forum go and watch his educational videos on how to day trade Options on ASX and join the live chat line to hear and see Bill trade live.  The claims that he makes are all true and you can actually watch him do it.  His students (me included) are encouraged to observe and learn how it is done.  And if that is not enough he offers free contacts to him for help and just for a chat.  No question is too stupid for this fine young Australian.  I am saying this because I am not even an Australian and I do not live in Australia.  What is wrong with you guys down south?  You seem to enjoy hacking each other out.




No Poni, we or at least I have a very small tolerance for bullsh!t.
Especially when money is involved!

How's Poni traveling these days?
Is he successful?
Is he dead & buried financially?
Did he even exist?

Well lets hear it from poni-boy lol.

Vicki


----------



## builder2818

Vicki said:


> No Poni, we or *at least I *have a very small tolerance for bullsh!t.
> Especially when money is involved!




Is small, two houses and $150,000 lost to trading?


----------



## nulla nulla

OneDayWealth said:


> My role here is not to "win anyone over" as I have stated several times. I was attacked and I am defending myself against those attacks. Then the lunacy started *and I had to sit and explain to all the trolls the basics of something they would never be able to understand (from the looks of it)*.
> 
> It is no victory to win over nameless attackers who hide behind their keyboards. I would be embarrassed to be associated with 99% of you.





This is so funny.  Someone who has demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of some of the essentials and basics of trading, wants everyone to believe his only purpose in dodging and weaving and evading direct questions for over 20 pages of posts is actually explaining something to us that we would never be able to understand.


----------



## Vicki

trainspotter said:


> Hmmmmmmmm ...... Why not meet on neutral ground to discuss the subject matter at hand?? Like Canberra for instance.  I could jump on a plane and meet you there as the referee if you like.
> 
> P.S. Google rummage "Zeewyk Pearl" for me ..... that's who I am !!




That's the spirit.
Something could be arranged that is mutually acceptable to both parties!

Bill, what are you worried about?
T/H said you'll know his identity when you meet...
Cameras rolling too [remember].

So identity isn't an issue in this case, as other people will recognise both of you!

If you feel intimidated, you could always arrange for security to be present, if that's an issue? [not being sarcastic]

Afterwards, whatever the the outcome, you'll know who he is, & pos. even have it on tape, to add to your collection!

So are you still willing to meet a critic in person?

Vicki


----------



## burglar

Wow!


----------



## skc

I can't believe I just spent 2 hrs reading this thread... would have been a more interesting Sunday afternoon reading this than xmas shopping!

I like to ask a question to anyone... I think the following 2 posts are accurate summaries of the assertions by Bill vs the rest. Can it be possible that they are in fact not contradictory? Forget for a moment how small that probability is, whether it will remain valid in the future or if it is suitable for teaching to beginners.



OneDayWealth said:


> Fact: This works
> Fact: I've been trading like this for years
> Fact: I have trained hudreds of others to do the same
> Fact: I have nothing to prove that has not already been proven hundreds of times.






wayneL said:


> So far we have established:
> 
> You promote the least efficient instrument for daytrading.
> You do not fully understand the instrument you trade.
> Have zero understanding of alternative instruments.
> Are not prepared to offer real time proof of success.
> Have great difficulty understanding simple concepts.
> Use logical fallacy to attempt to defend yourself.
> Do not understand money/cash management.
> That you believe this is doing your reputation any good.




Many people have made crazy claims here in the past, but some have been able to prove their seemingly outrageous claims later on.

The "Nothing to something scalping" thread is obviously one.
This guy called ivant (anyone remember him?) was a less expected example. https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14967

BTW, Bill. See this thread here https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14508 and note how Pairs Trader was able to maintain professionalism, gain creditability and win new customers over the course of the thread, despite initial doubt and critism.


----------



## IFocus

Just want to thank Bill for his contribution to ASF.

Pretty much the only thread I can think off where we all agree


----------



## explod

IFocus said:


> Just want to thank Bill for his contribution to ASF.
> 
> Pretty much the only thread I can think off where we all agree




Yes it is good to be kept up to date and alert on all new devopments and I think the input of our Moderator the Professor was excellent.


----------



## Vicki

> tech/a
> Re: Bill Stacy?
> Hasn't this thread run its Course---or his Course---or Discourse.
> 
> Seriously there is nothing here for the budding trader.
> Lock it up mods!!!!
> 
> T/H look me up when in Adelaide.
> I'm down South.




Hi Tech/a,
I think there still could be some more compelling reading for newbies, that might otherwise part with $$$$ to the vampires/spruikers that lurk in the shadows, waiting to "try it on" or fleece another uninitiated 'lamb'

A good example to them to read & learn what to watch-out for!

Not Implying just yet that Bill's new business fits the above description!

He's going to prove to all, his expertise, by meeting with a forum member.


Where's Bill gone?

has he confirmed a meeting yet?

Vicki


----------



## Buckfont

I sometimes wonder about the egos that post here. 

As an example has Bill Stacy met robots and vikkyverka. 

What a waste of personal time to prove a point that as I see it will never be proven. Neither can verify their huge acclaims that they see are supremely correct. 

All fluff and bluster.

Both persons mentioned above lack any credibility until they can show their ability to educate those that don`t know the deal.

Openness and honesty, cards on the table is the only way. 

I find both threads boring as batsheet that educate little until the blokes put the the truth and the statistics open for everyone to see. Otherwise its all a waste of time


----------



## nunthewiser

Buckfont said:


> .
> 
> I find both threads boring as batsheet that educate little until the blokes put the the truth and the statistics open for everyone to see. Otherwise its all a waste of time




But you took the time to post all that.......

Right on sista!

personally dont think Robots is full of bluster as if you went through all the previous property threads you would notice his calls , ramble from a LONG time back.5+years.

Bill on the other hand has given us squat except self perceived greatness with no effort to call it in real time (as robots has)

anyhoo i love hypocrisy so i thought i,d comment on your post.


----------



## nunthewiser

oh yeah ......

Robots isnt trying to sell us anything either .

No courses ... nuffin ..nadda,         just telling us how he goes

anyways.thats a different fanclub thread subject


----------



## GumbyLearner

nunthewiser said:


> oh yeah ......
> 
> Robots isnt trying to sell us anything either .
> 
> No courses ... nuffin ..nadda,         just telling us how he goes
> 
> anyways.thats a different fanclub thread subject




Kudos to the ol Robots. He has stood by his claims. There is no doubt about that. But I refuse to stand by the over-leveraged club myself. Not that they would ever accept me as a member as ol Groucho Marx would put it 

Food for thought.


----------



## Vicki

> This is so funny. Someone who has demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of some of the essentials and basics of trading, wants everyone to believe his only purpose in dodging and weaving and evading direct questions for over 20 pages of posts is actually explaining something to us that we would never be able to understand.




Com'n Bill, Don't flake-out again, just when I thought we were all mak'n some progress.

O.K. fair enough, maybe you're pre-occupied explaining yourself or consoling your clients?....["what. I can get all this stuff free on asf, wtf!"]

Bring some of your students on this forum then.
If they do indeed exist?
Maybe they can explain your strategy more convincingly than you?
You did say some of your students were potentially brighter & pos. better than you!..[your words]

Ask him to do what he encouraged, which was to face a critic & stand proud, reputation intact....????

Well, it appears all's quiete on the western front?

Vicki


----------



## OneDayWealth

Vicki said:


> Where's Bill gone?
> 
> Vicki





Relax Vicki, I have a life. 

The dude who wants to see my stuff can contact me and I'll send him a link to become a full member. 

The rest of you poor sad little people who feel the need to add your drivel need to read the posts before opening your big mouths.


----------



## GumbyLearner

OneDayWealth said:


> The rest of you need to read the posts before opening your big mouths.




You sound like a self-conceited dolt. I certainly won't be doing business with you!


----------



## Vicki

OneDayWealth said:


> Relax Vicki, I have a life.
> 
> The dude who wants to see my stuff can contact me and I'll send him a link to become a full member.
> 
> The rest of you poor sad little people who feel the need to add your drivel need to read the posts before opening your big mouths.




Good on you Bill.
We've now got a fair game of cricket!
Trembling hand, have you contaced Bill yet?

Vicki


----------



## GumbyLearner

OneDayWealth said:


> The rest of you poor sad little people who feel the need to add your drivel need to read




Yep belittling investors. You should adopt that as a slogan!

Good luck dolt


----------



## mazzatelli

prawn_86 said:


> Bill, Who or What is Ashmax?
> 
> As far as i can tell your site is simply an affiliate/reseller for  'AshMax' meaning you would get a % of every $ you refer that way. In  fact the more i look into it the more it seems to be a pyramid scheme.
> 
> So not only are you promoting an options course in which you seem to  have very limited knowledge or proof, you are also reselling a pyramid  scheme?
> 
> Could be wrong though...




Forever belittling others: e.g. stupid, fools, find a cliff etc, or we simply just don't get it.







​ 
      That will be my last contribution to this thread.
Cheers


----------



## GumbyLearner

That's funny.

Like this

twitpic.com/3d7s7u


----------



## Vicki

> Bill, Who or What is Ashmax?
> 
> As far as i can tell your site is simply an affiliate/reseller for 'AshMax' meaning you would get a % of every $ you refer that way. In fact the more i look into it the more it seems to be a pyramid scheme.
> 
> So not only are you promoting an options course in which you seem to have very limited knowledge or proof, you are also reselling a pyramid scheme?




Thanks Mazzatelli,
Just looked that those web pages.

OH MY GOD!!!
Selling yourself as a gun trader is one thing!

But pyramid, telemarketing, avon, amway stuff is just utter tripe, best left to the yanks.
This absolute bullsh!t is all over the web, & honestly I thought you to be a higher class of spin-doctor bullsh!t artist than this!!!!


O.K. Lets be fair & all try it & retire on 25k p/m!

It's like the original planet wealth crap all over again!

Go'n 2 bed......jeez


----------



## GumbyLearner

Vicki said:


> Thanks Mazzatelli,
> Just looked that those web pages.
> 
> OH MY GOD!!!
> Selling yourself as a gun trader is one thing!
> 
> But pyramid, telemarketing, avon, amway stuff is just utter tripe, best left to the yanks.
> This absolute bullsh!t is all over the web, & honestly I thought you to be a higher class of spin-doctor bullsh!t artist than this!!!!
> 
> 
> O.K. Lets be fair & all try it & retire on 25k p/m!
> 
> It's like the original planet wealth crap all over again!
> 
> Go'n 2 bed......jeez




You forgot to add multi-level marketing.....


----------



## the phantom

mazzatelli said:


> Forever belittling others: e.g. stupid, fools, find a cliff etc, or we simply just don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> That will be my last contribution to this thread.
> Cheers





lol, this has opened up a whole new can of worms ... it just gets better and better.

Btw dislike of pyramiding , multi-level marketing and ripping off old grannies and the like, does not equal dislike of entrepreneurship, freedom of markets and not being a communist.

How about honesty, integrity and providing good old fashion value for money. 

Instead of finding someone more stupid or naive than you.


----------



## the phantom

Bill, there are professional option traders on this site (professional to me does not mean formally educated or working for a company doing that, it means, they are experienced and know what the f they are doing, I know Wayne L is in this camp, as well as one or a few others), which have pulled you to pieces, or for some questions you have not answered all their questions because you don't know the answer.

One thing is clear to me based on your web site and answers on this forum, is that you have bought into the same multi-level marketing scheme you are promoting, and are someone's pawn on the multi-level scheme, and you are trying to add a pawn structure below you of your own, which trickles up in revenue.

Your website is not original (based on the ridiculous amount of polished US voice overs), you are obviously at a lower tier to something else, for which you do their bidding, and you are looking for more suckers such as yourself.


----------



## Wysiwyg

the phantom said:


> How about honesty, integrity and providing good old fashion value for money.
> 
> Instead of finding someone more stupid or naive than you.




See this one walks the fine line of the law with the "if we enter and exit here" hindsight videos. The videos surely contravene fair trading practices by way of baiting clients with hypothetical profits.


----------



## Vicki

Wysiwyg said:


> See this one walks the fine line of the law with the "if we enter and exit here" hindsight videos. The videos surely contravene fair trading practices by way of baiting clients with hypothetical profits.




Oh, thankyou for pointing that out.
Sounds very similar to the original planet wealth e-book "dimitri strategy" crap!



Vicki


----------



## trainspotter

OneDayWealth said:


> Relax Vicki, I have a life.
> 
> The dude who wants to see my stuff can contact me and I'll send him a link to become a full member.
> 
> The rest of you poor sad little people who feel the need to add your drivel need to read the posts before opening your big mouths.




I am a poor sald little people? WOW Bill ...... I really wanna join your club now. LOL


----------



## Wysiwyg

trainspotter said:


> I am a poor sald little people? WOW Bill ...... I really wanna join your club now. LOL




Pssst! Trainspotter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Where are the ladies, mate?


----------



## skc

Wysiwyg said:


> Pssst! Trainspotter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the ladies, mate?




By the look of it the ladies were in front of him.


----------



## OneDayWealth

trainspotter said:


> I am a poor sald little people? WOW Bill ...... I really wanna join your club now. LOL




That's not me. lol I have no idea who that is.


----------



## newbie trader

That's trainspotter. Still laughing from SKC's comment!


----------



## Vicki

Bill, your back!
Have you had a chat with trembling hand yet?

Set a date to meet etc.


Vicki


----------



## trainspotter

skc said:


> By the look of it the ladies were in front of him.




HAhaha ah ah ah hah a aaa ...... you got me !


----------



## Vicki

skc said:


> By the look of it the ladies were in front of him.




Looks like one of Bill's break-out trading strategies, [from six to midnight] he could name it?

Where's Bill gone again?

Maybe he's do'n a trade? [give us the goss'].

Com'n Bill, tell us what's happening with you & T/H.

Vicki


----------



## Rob73

Vicki,

What is your story, apart from losing two houses and a heap of cash and seeming to blame someone else for your setbacks and not taking  any responsibility for it is bizarre,

You are not adding any constructive substance to this whole thread, all you are doing is throwing a lot of negative energy out there and doing your best to stir up other members, does that make your day.


----------



## tech/a

Rob73 said:


> Vicki,
> 
> What is your story, apart from losing two houses and a heap of cash and seeming to blame someone else for your setbacks and not taking  any responsibility for it is bizarre,
> 
> You are not adding any constructive substance to this whole thread, all you are doing is throwing a lot of negative energy out there and doing your best to stir up other members, does that make your day.




Number of posts 1
To the Rescue of the local shark.
Pathetic.


----------



## Rob73

Mate I am new to this site,

I have been trying to read everything on this whole forum for the last few days, I was actually a member back in 2008,

There is a lot of great stuff on here,

Don’t tell me that you measure the number of your posts by your man hood.


----------



## tech/a

Rob73 said:


> Mate I am new to this site,
> 
> I have been trying to read everything on this whole forum for the last few days, I was actually a member back in 2008,
> 
> There is a lot of great stuff on here,
> 
> Don’t tell me that you measure the number of your posts by your man hood.




I have never seen business conducted so poorly in the time I have been on this planet.
I have further comment to make after edits.
Out of interest could you point me to the "Great Stuff" ( your opinion of course).Would be interesting to see the quality of great stuff you point to---will tell a lot.

As for Manhood and Number of posts Id never thought of Wayne that way!



> What is your story, apart from losing two houses and a heap of cash and seeming to blame someone else for your setbacks and not taking any responsibility for it is bizarre




The minute claims which have been used to entice $$$ s from clients are made and someone buys a product with an expectation that they will be placed in a position by the educator to emulate those returns then the responsibility becomes a shared one.(In my view) 



> You are not adding any constructive substance to this whole thread, all you are doing is throwing a lot of negative energy out there and doing your best to stir up other members, does that make your day.




For someone who is evidently an idiot and "Doesnt get it" I reckon she is pretty smart.
If she gets enough people who are in a similar position together and takes on a Class Action as well as makes a documented submittion to ASIC I think you'll find that it will be 
BILL STACY who "Didnt get it".
His Dealer Principal must be having kittens!!!

Id be looking for Paul Makin any minute.Would make great viewing.


----------



## Rob73

I have been reading over the threads in the XAO analysis and on the commodities, I have been enjoying reading Gumby learners posts,

Tech/a I don’t understand why you would comment on my one post, I was just saying something to Vicki that I think here posts are negative,

To start calling me names is that really necessary.


----------



## tech/a

> I was just saying something to Vicki that I think here posts are negative,




I dint understand.
You expect someone in her position to be glowingly positive and up beat?



> really necessary



Pathetic is a personal opinion of your first post.
Rude/arrogant/self opinionated and ignorant are labels I wear well if you were a Duck you'd understand.


----------



## Rob73

Ok cool tech/a,

I have not traded for the last 8 or so months due to family tragedies,

Back in late 07/08, I to lost or donated a lot of  money to the market all up over 250,000 and a house and at the time it was with a trading platform were someone else was trading on my behalf, so I guess you could say that I know what Vicki went through and is still going through,

However I am 100% responsible for everything that happened I could of pulled the plug  and got out for a lot less, but it was my last calls that kept my money in the market, it seems to easy to blame someone else or the system, when in hindsight I should of shut it all down for a lot less

Anyway that’s why I have posted here, I think every decision we make in trading has to come back on the individual 100% , no one had a gun to my head at the time and as we know there is never any guarantees to anything, especially trading.


----------



## builder2818

Rob73 said:


> Ok cool tech/a,
> 
> I have not traded for the last 8 or so months due to family tragedies,
> 
> Back in late 07/08, I to lost or donated a lot of  money to the market all up over 250,000 and a house and at the time it was with a trading platform were someone else was trading on my behalf, so I guess you could say that I know what Vicki went through and is still going through,
> 
> However I am 100% responsible for everything that happened I could of pulled the plug  and got out for a lot less, but it was my last calls that kept my money in the market, it seems to easy to blame someone else or the system, when in hindsight I should of shut it all down for a lot less
> 
> Anyway that’s why I have posted here, I think every decision we make in trading has to come back on the individual 100% , no one had a gun to my head at the time and as we know there is never any guarantees to anything, especially trading.




$250,000? Makes me feel a lot better that I have only lost $40,000 over the last 18 months because of my bearish bias to the market.


----------



## nunthewiser

builder2818 said:


> $250,000? Makes me feel a lot better that I have only lost $40,000 over the last 18 months because of my bearish bias to the market.




Perhaps you should do an options course so you can make it back in the next 34 seconds


----------



## builder2818

nunthewiser said:


> Perhaps you should do an options course so you can make it back in the next 34 seconds




Lol! Now where would I find something like that?


----------



## nulla nulla

Rob73 said:


> Vicki,
> 
> What is your story, apart from losing two houses and a heap of cash and seeming to blame someone else for your setbacks and not taking  any responsibility for it is bizarre,
> 
> You are not adding any constructive substance to this whole thread, all you are doing is throwing a lot of negative energy out there and doing your best to stir up other members, does that make your day.




Attack dog unleashed.



Rob73 said:


> Mate I am new to this site,
> 
> I have been trying to read everything on this whole forum for the last few days, I was actually a member back in 2008,
> 
> There is a lot of great stuff on here,
> 
> Don’t tell me that you measure the number of your posts by your man hood.




Attack dog confronted and not so sure of itself.



Rob73 said:


> I have been reading over the threads in the XAO analysis and on the commodities, I have been enjoying reading Gumby learners posts,
> 
> Tech/a I don’t understand why you would comment on my one post, I was just saying something to Vicki that I think here posts are negative,
> 
> To start calling me names is that really necessary.




Attack dog displaying contrition and tucking tail between it's legs.



Rob73 said:


> Ok cool tech/a,
> 
> I have not traded for the last 8 or so months due to family tragedies,
> 
> Back in late 07/08, I to lost or donated a lot of  money to the market all up over 250,000 and a house and at the time it was with a trading platform were someone else was trading on my behalf, so I guess you could say that I know what Vicki went through and is still going through,
> 
> However I am 100% responsible for everything that happened I could of pulled the plug  and got out for a lot less, but it was my last calls that kept my money in the market, it seems to easy to blame someone else or the system, when in hindsight I should of shut it all down for a lot less
> 
> Anyway that’s why I have posted here, I think every decision we make in trading has to come back on the individual 100% , no one had a gun to my head at the time and as we know there is never any guarantees to anything, especially trading.




Attack dog rolling over and grovelling, realizing the opposition is not in the least impressed or intimidated.


----------



## lindsayf

nice work Nulla squared


----------



## nulla nulla

builder2818 said:


> $250,000? Makes me feel a lot better that I have only lost $40,000 over the last 18 months because of my bearish bias to the market.




$40,000.00 what a coincidence. Just think of it as an investment such as investing in a pyramid option course for the same amount. Only you have the benefit of real experience.


----------



## Vicki

> You are not adding any constructive substance to this whole thread, all you are doing is throwing a lot of negative energy out there and doing your best to stir up other members, does that make your day.




I wouldn't have thought so.
Bill came onto this site over a year ago, & I added my two bobs' worth.

Now we're all embroiled in active discussion about what he does & what he really has to offer, something we might get some conclusive answers on if/when T/H & Bill meet, or if T/H joins Bills training program?


Vicki


----------



## J&M

Vicki said:


> I wouldn't have thought so.
> Bill came onto this site over a year ago, & I added my two bobs' worth.
> 
> Now we're all embroiled in active discussion about what he does & what he really has to offer, something we might get some conclusive answers on if/when T/H & Bill meet, or if T/H joins Bills training program?
> 
> 
> Vicki




I think Rob is Bill................................................


----------



## Trembling Hand

Vicki said:


> Now we're all embroiled in active discussion about what he does & what he really has to offer, something we might get some conclusive answers on if/when T/H & Bill meet, or if T/H joins Bills training program?




I'll happily meet Bill. As he challenged me directly to face him and make the same claims that I've said all along. 



OneDayWealth said:


> Don't call me clueless, idiot! You guys are sooo brave behind your keyboards. I bet not one of you would ever speak to me like this to my face.




The claims being that his acknowledge base in his chosen instrument is sub standard for even a retail trader let alone to be selling education on it. That he doesn't know how his system should perform (this is just unforgivable for someone selling a product/service. Just astounding!). That the BS about living the dream on $20,000 is absolute and utter cr@p. Etc etc etc.

So Bill I'm ready.


----------



## tech/a

nunthewiser said:


> Perhaps you should do an options course so you can make it back in the next 34 seconds




*You crack me up!!!!*


----------



## Trembling Hand

Has bill got an ASF Lic?


----------



## Rob73

Vicki,

 maybe I should off just sent you a private message first with how I felt about what you were saying personally as it seems we were in similar financial positions a few years ago, there was a lot of money lost, however do you seriously not blame yourselves 100% first, seems like we possibly even lost our money on the same trades that were been placed then, but in the end it was our decision to go ahead with it and even stay in the trades while they were tanking.

For a while there it was going to plan and who would off predicted the GFC, unless you were privy to that information.

Cheers Rob.


----------



## Vicki

J&M said:


> I think Rob is Bill................................................




I thought so to!
Even uses some similar words & phrases [cool & gun to your head etc.] lol.

Anyway, when the real 'Bill' is back in the room, can you confirm a time to show T/H your system?


Vicki


----------



## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> Has bill got an ASF Lic?




Rents one has a dealer principal (so he says)
Who would be doing cart wheels if he was directed to this site.
OK looked up his name and his business.
Zippo.

If you wish to go shark fishing go here.
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/fsr/flb.html
Dont need a boat either.


----------



## tech/a

> For a while there it was going to plan and who would off predicted the GFC, unless you were privy to that information.



Many futures and Options traders made a killing in the GFC.
*Short IS* a position.


----------



## Vicki

> Rents one has a dealer principal (so he says)
> Who would be doing cart wheels if he was directed to this site.
> OK looked up his name and his business.
> Zippo.
> 
> If you wish to go shark fishing go here.
> http://www.search.asic.gov.au/fsr/flb.html
> Dont need a boat either.




Tech/a,
This's very interesting, does this mean he effectively borrows someone elses licence on a limited basis?
Then lets it look as if he's got some big credentials next to his name?

Vicki


----------



## tech/a

Back to this incredible *business assassination.*

Number one key business building rule is to develop relationships.
There have been 12000 views of this thread and we have witnesses degradation of ANY form of relationship this guy could have with any member of this board.

With the *enthusiasm of a pitbull he has ripped the throat of a client* out in full view of his intended audience.

Not only that he has taken great pride in being a pitbull----- infact the most intelligent pitbull ever to grace the human race---who are either Idiots or Just Dont get it. 

Youll find most people judge businesses by how they treat you after the purchase---its called after sales service---the very best opportunity to absolutely turn a client into an *advocate.*

With some of the rhetoric he has posted up here he has opened himself up to 
(1) Class action possibilities
(2) ASIC investigation of claims.
(3) If he has made Millions then I hope he has a good accountant as the TAX department would be interested in all aspects of his business.

For someone who "Gets it" he certainly presents* to me* like an idiot.
Particularly if that is a genuine shot of him on that boat.

Successful companies and business men treat their clients with respect even if their clients are blatantly wrong because they---------------- DO ACTUALLY GET IT!!!!

And it shows.


----------



## nunthewiser

Trembling Hand said:


> Has bill got an ASF Lic?




scroll back a bit under"phantom"s posts .

a leased one 

i asked also

blessim


----------



## tech/a

Vicki said:


> Tech/a,
> This's very interesting, does this mean he effectively borrows someone elses licence on a limited basis?
> Then lets it look as if he's got some big credentials next to his name?
> 
> Vicki




It means he doesn't have a licence to practice as a financial advisor in his own right.
Further he cannot give advice on what to buy when and what to sell when---thats why everything is in hind site and why you wont get him to trade live.
His licence would be instantly pulled by his dealer principal and the dealer would be in big trouble.


----------



## Rob73

It’s obvious tech/a, that you or I did not make a killing throughout it, if we did would, you be here tonight.

I don’t understand your comments Vicki, totally by chance I have come across this whole topic, you asked for someone earlier on who might have had dealings through planet wealth, well I certainly did and  it’s not a happy memory either.

Cheers Rob.


----------



## tech/a

> It’s obvious tech/a, that you or I did not make a killing throughout it, if we did would, you be here tonight.




Nothing is obvious thats already been proven in this thread many times.
Depends on what you call a killing 25% + nett worth thats a killing
But my return in that period maybe seen by many as 25% of "THEIR" nett worth or more!!----2% of mine----smoke and mirrors we are all capable exponents.

Would I be here tonight---yep!

You maybe very surprised who hides behind the Anonymity of an Avatar.
I think someone is about to get one should he take up an offer---the pitbull just cant refuse!


----------



## nunthewiser

Rob73 said:


> I don’t understand your comments Vicki, totally by chance I have come across this whole topic, you asked for someone earlier on who might have had dealings through planet wealth, well I certainly did and  it’s not a happy memory either.
> 
> Cheers Rob.





Dont let Vicki,s , tech/a,s comments towards you bother ya .

Tech/a,s posts are valid and intresting but maybe unwarranted at you personally.

Vicki,s posts, i see them for what they are actuallly for

I actually think she has a hidden agenda here also as all her posts since starting are in THIS thread...and theres a lot of standing there egging ppl on .rallying the troops.. instigating others to do the dirty work.......... rings bells to me

I  have been reading Vicki,s posts and noticed she likes to stir the pot withhout providing any actual quality input.

had its desired effect,

 which maybe a good thing in my view but vicki,s poking and stirring brought out the worst in bill and  he annaialated his business with his smoke and mirrors and abusive ways..lol google gunna be his pain from here.

Personally i couldnt care less how much vicki, wants to donate to the market as personally happy to take it , but i am of the thinking that there is enough sharks ffeeding already without a MAYBE dodgy pr!ck feeding on the uninformed via the trust and riches approach while picking there pockets.

welcome to asf Rob....


----------



## Vicki

> you asked for someone earlier on who might have had dealings through planet wealth, well I certainly did and it’s not a happy memory either.
> 
> Cheers Rob.




Great.
Maybe you could start a thread titled "planet wealth" or similar, and start sharing your experiences.

Also, If you know of anybody else like you, could you ask them to share as well?

Meanwhile, we're still waiting on this thread, for Bill to get back to us, on when he's going to meet T/H.

Vicki


----------



## Rob73

Thanks dude,

I agree with what you are saying,

 I have only popped by head back In this forum after about a two year absence and it is still out of control,

I only wanted to respond to what Vicki was going on about, as I lost money around the same time as her.

And as much as it sucked and I went on a rampage then, I tool 100% responsibility off what went down.

Welcome back to asf your not wrong there are a few ferrules out there.


----------



## Rob73

Vicki,

What will a new thread do,

 its old money mate,

 we lost a heap,

 haven’t you made fresh money since then, seriously what’s the point in wasting energy talking about old money that we lost.

We were in the same boat back then, can we not make new money and learn from our experiences.

Vicki, I will talk all day with you about what we went through back then, but this is now, there is new money to be made with our bad experience.

Cheers Rob.


----------



## nulla nulla

Rob73 said:


> Mate I am new to this site,
> 
> I have been trying to read everything on this whole forum for the last few days, I was actually a member back in 2008,




"Mate I am new to this site...I was actually a member back in 2008". I find that slightly contradictory. 2008 was only 2 years ago but here you are with a new moniker, popping up on page 24 after more than 400 posts and singling out Vicki. 
First you attack her, then when that doesn't impress any one you move to  "Lets put the past in the past, let bygones be bygones and move on".



> There is a lot of great stuff on here,
> 
> Don’t tell me that you measure the number of your posts by your man hood.




What has manhood got to do with the number of a persons post? Its' not a p!ssing competition confronting someone that is promoting a product/service that they are selling which they have demonstrated they know little or nothing about.



Rob73 said:


> Thanks dude,
> 
> I agree with what you are saying,
> 
> I have only popped by head back In this forum after about a two year absence and it is still out of control,
> 
> I only wanted to respond to what Vicki was going on about, as I lost money around the same time as her.
> 
> And as much as it sucked and I went on a rampage then, I tool 100% responsibility off what went down.
> 
> Welcome back to asf your not wrong there are a few ferrules out there.




The forum isn't out of control. If you really had read back through the posts you would see that the moderators have not only monitored the input to the thread, they have been actively involved in giving Bill Stacy every opportunity to put up credible proof. Every opportunity which he has evaded. 
I think you mean "took" where you say "tool" but then perhaps *tool* is more appropriate anyway.


----------



## Vicki

> Vicki, I will talk all day with you about what we went through back then, but this is now, there is new money to be made with our bad experience.
> 
> Cheers Rob.




That's the reason to start the new thread & get to work sharing your experiences, & you can talk all day long about your experiences with planet wealth...e.g. your dealings with Bill & Andrew around that time?
Get your copy of the original e-book & share it with us etc. 

Eventually, former members can chime in [me included] and add to the content.



> but this is now, there is new money to be made with our bad experience.




Yep, I hear you there Rob/Bill  [sorry , still not convinced] don't be offended.
Just start sharing your experiences on the planet wealth "thread"

Meanwhile, about the new money to be made?
We're all still focussing on it, with regard to bill's impressive strategy, & getting it varified.

Aren't you interested with a new way of trading?

Anyway, unless you're also interested with an amazing new strategy, that is the current subject matter, I won't reply to you any further here.
Why? because I'm not sure if you're genuine [ Bill's phantom] again no offence.

Vicki
p.s. back in a few hours.


----------



## Rob73

That’s the reason why I didn’t bother with your last post, Nulla Nulla

 OH, have you just got home from work and hate the world, lol lol,  its so predictable,

go Nulla Nulla, it must be some artifact ,or some lost city or surf spot somewhere, you go Nulla Nulla is that what you are called.

Nulla Nulla, I will give you the respect of having capital letters on your name, lol lol, 

seriously Nulla stop miss quoting what I say,

How much do you trade off your own money, Nulla  lol lol 

Cheers Rob


----------



## nunthewiser

mmmmmm 

intresting.

hidden agendas flyin thick and fast.

so many similarities and fun and games.......

im intrigued at this new turn to the thread and i think any psychology students out there will benefit a great deal on this study into human behaviour and smoke and mirrors parlez.


----------



## Rob73

How interesting, comments off great benefit get removed quicker than you can read it, mmm something to think about there.

and there is no blank in the numbers, lol lol

So you can give it but can’t take it, is that right, sorry tech/ a , what you are properly tucked into bed by now.


----------



## Rob73

Vicki,

I am not Bill,

 To me, what are you going to get out off going back to the pain that we experienced, you seriously can’t say you’re looking out for newbie’s, they are armed with more info then we started off with after the GFC, or you think everyone is stupid like you and I and didn’t  shut down the trades when  we should off on our own.

Vicki, its almost 2011,

 a long time since we were involved in that strategy, free your mind off it , there is new money to be had every single day.

The system or product was never the problem, it was us believing that any trade we had on a stock would purely just come back.


Aim happy to catch up with for a coffee, or a beer to talk about what we went through.

Cheers Rob.


----------



## nunthewiser

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Awesome!

Hiya Billy ..... missed ya bud..

cant disguise that bedside manner champ.

I did give the benefit of the doubt on my earlier post but i think an ISP check maybe in order now 

this is pure Gold this thread.

Thanks for the freakshow!


----------



## nunthewiser

bloody crooksters and scamsters all over the internet...

love ya work 



TH why would ya waste your time on these turkeys m8 .....

personally would be worried about meeting any of these clowns with these personality traits.....


----------



## trainspotter

Rob73 said:


> Vicki,
> 
> I am not Bill,
> 
> To me, what are you going to get out off going back to the pain that we experienced, you seriously can’t say you’re looking out for newbie’s, they are armed with more info then we started off with after the GFC, *or you think everyone is stupid like you* and I and didn’t  shut down the trades when  we should off on our own.
> 
> Vicki, its almost 2011,
> 
> a long time since we were involved in that strategy, free your mind off it , there is new money to be had every single day.
> 
> The system or product was never the problem, it was us believing that any trade we had on a stock would purely just come back.
> 
> 
> Aim happy to catch up with for a coffee, or a beer to talk about what we went through.
> 
> Cheers Rob.




Sounds like Bill to me. Reads like Bill. Smells like Bill. It is Bill.


----------



## nunthewiser

Joe/mods.

how would i save this thread as a file to be held independently by me with no attachment to ASF?

it may come in handy.

I have no attachment to ASF in any means other than being a regular poster.
I am not a moderator.
I am an independant witness with no ties to ASF .....financially or otherwise.


----------



## Rob73

Sorry nunthewiser,

That’s a kind of cool name, lol lol 

 um nunthewiser, can I just call you nuno, lol lol thing

How much did you make in the last GFC , with your experience.

how much did you make trainspotter in the last GFC, with your experience, jeez under 3,000 posts, why are you still here, lol lol you poor soul, you’re not 

what’s his name,  tech/a lol lol brother are you, keep plugging away boys. Lol lol .

I think Vicki will meet me, or at least talk to me as we have something strong in common,

 losing money and a lot of in short time, can be turned into a positive,

 if you are prepared to accepted that and still want to trade.

But my guess is that there is only half a dozen true traders here, proberly less really,  that could handle such a loss and get back into trading for their reasons alone.

Vicki, if you want to trade again, lose the are you with me mentalities, with a forum, they should not be pushing your buttons.

Cheers Rob.


----------



## Vicki

nunthewiser said:


> Joe/mods.
> 
> how would i save this thread as a file to be held independently by me with no attachment to ASF?
> 
> it may come in handy.
> 
> I have no attachment to ASF in any means other than being a regular poster.
> I am not a moderator.
> I am an independant witness with no ties to ASF .....financially or otherwise.




That's a good point, can that be done?
Because some of these unscrupulous characters seem to be masters of spin & flat-out denyal!

i.e. If you asked the 'subject' of this thread to accurately recall what sort of manner he conducted himself in, well I'm sure the answer would be "what thread, don't recall etc."

Or "nobody ever tried independantly to verify my system, that's rubbish etc."

I've experienced that once before, & very frustrating!

Anyway, where is Bill?
I think it's only fair, that if someone claims big things, that reasonable proof be provided.

Not just for me, but for all that are interested.


Vicki
p.s. they also like to play hypocryte, by doing something that they themselves just critisised in earlier posts.


----------



## nunthewiser

nunthewiser said:


> Vicki,s posts, i see them for what they are actuallly for
> 
> I actually think she has a hidden agenda here also as all her posts since starting are in THIS thread...and theres a lot of standing there egging ppl on .rallying the troops.. instigating others to do the dirty work.......... rings bells to me
> 
> ...






nunthewiser said:


> mmmmmm
> 
> intresting.
> 
> hidden agendas flyin thick and fast.
> 
> so many similarities and fun and games.......
> 
> im intrigued at this new turn to the thread and i think any psychology students out there will benefit a great deal on this study into human behaviour and smoke and mirrors parlez.






nunthewiser said:


> Joe/mods.
> 
> how would i save this thread as a file to be held independently by me with no attachment to ASF?
> 
> it may come in handy.
> 
> I have no attachment to ASF in any means other than being a regular poster.
> I am not a moderator.
> I am an independant witness with no ties to ASF .....financially or otherwise.






Vicki said:


> Because some of these unscrupulous characters seem to be masters of spin & flat-out denyal!
> 
> 
> 
> Vicki




Great Idea Vicki .

rather intrested in your input here from the start also actually.

mind boggling

ISP checks all round i say!


----------



## Rob73

Vicki,

Do you want to trade again on your own with the experience that you have already gained.

Or are you just  going to continue to be a bitter old person about past experiences,

Sorry I just want to know with what you went through,

 are you able to place a trade on your own without any influences, apart from market makers


----------



## Vicki

Yes, further to the point of unscrupulous characters.

They appear to have an uncanny habit of disappearing when the 'light of day' is shone upon them, not unlike vampires cringing from the first rays of the morning sun, before they spontaniously conbust, & thus return to the shadows from whenst they came!

Where's he gone?

Vicki
gotta go 2 bed, 'night all.


----------



## nulla nulla

Rob73 said:


> That’s the reason why I didn’t bother with your last post, Nulla Nulla
> 
> OH, have you just got home from work and hate the world, lol lol,  its so predictable,
> 
> go Nulla Nulla, it must be some artifact ,or some lost city or surf spot somewhere, you go Nulla Nulla is that what you are called.
> 
> Nulla Nulla, I will give you the respect of having capital letters on your name, lol lol,
> 
> seriously Nulla stop miss quoting what I say,
> 
> How much do you trade off your own money, Nulla  lol lol
> 
> Cheers Rob




I trade my own capital, the amount is of no consequence to you. And I am not here to make wild boasts about how much I made over the last 18 months so I can sell a system that doesn't stand up to objective scrutiny.



Rob73 said:


> How interesting, comments off great benefit get removed quicker than you can read it, mmm something to think about there.
> 
> and there is no blank in the numbers, lol lol
> 
> So you can give it but can’t take it, is that right, sorry tech/ a , what you are properly tucked into bed by now.




Perhaps in your excitement, with your new moniker, you forgot to click "save post".



Rob73 said:


> Vicki,
> 
> I am not Bill,
> 
> To me, what are you going to get out off going back to the pain that we experienced, you seriously can’t say you’re looking out for newbie’s, they are armed with more info then we started off with after the GFC, or you think everyone is stupid like you and I and didn’t  shut down the trades when  we should off on our own.
> 
> Vicki, its almost 2011,
> 
> a long time since we were involved in that strategy, free your mind off it , there is new money to be had every single day.
> 
> The system or product was never the problem, it was us believing that any trade we had on a stock would purely just come back.
> 
> 
> Aim happy to catch up with for a coffee, or a beer to talk about what we went through.
> 
> Cheers Rob.




Calls Vicki "stupid" then offers to "catch up"...An amazing display of interpersonal skills. Bet it works wonders.



Rob73 said:


> Sorry nunthewiser,
> 
> That’s a kind of cool name, lol lol
> 
> um nunthewiser, can I just call you nuno, lol lol thing
> 
> How much did you make in the last GFC , with your experience.
> 
> how much did you make trainspotter in the last GFC, with your experience, jeez under 3,000 posts, why are you still here, lol lol you poor soul, you’re not
> 
> what’s his name,  tech/a lol lol brother are you, keep plugging away boys. Lol lol .
> 
> I think Vicki will meet me, or at least talk to me as we have something strong in common,
> 
> losing money and a lot of in short time, can be turned into a positive,
> 
> if you are prepared to accepted that and still want to trade.
> 
> But my guess is that there is only half a dozen true traders here, proberly less really,  that could handle such a loss and get back into trading for their reasons alone.
> 
> Vicki, if you want to trade again, lose the are you with me mentalities, with a forum, they should not be pushing your buttons.
> 
> Cheers Rob.




Now trying to discredit everyone, many of whom have been investing/trading for years and have demonstrated their market knowledge time and time again.



Rob73 said:


> Vicki,
> 
> Do you want to trade again on your own with the experience that you have already gained.
> 
> Or are you just  going to continue to be a bitter old person about past experiences,
> 
> Sorry I just want to know with what you went through,
> 
> are you able to place a trade on your own without any influences, apart from market makers




And back to baiting Vicki. Strange how Bill dissapeared and Rob pops up to divert the discussion. Agree with Nunthewiser in that the moderators might like to check IP addresses for some of the posters.


----------



## Joe Blow

nulla nulla said:


> Agree with Nunthewiser in that the moderators might like to check IP addresses for some of the posters.




IP addresses have been checked. No match.


----------



## nulla nulla

Joe Blow said:


> IP addresses have been checked. No match.




Thanks Joe.


----------



## Vicki

Joe Blow said:


> IP addresses have been checked. No match.




I swear I saw a link to ashmax on bill's new identity.
Must have been removed.

*Link Removed*

Looks very similar to Bill's!!

Here's their forum showing a sub-forum for Bill and one for Rob's website.

http://www.ashmaxforum.com/Home/tabi...9/Default.aspx

A bit of digging around on google could probably show up more links between the two.?

But I could be wrong, I'm not the most internet savvy person.

Vicki
Gotta run, tak'n the kids 2 shcool.


----------



## prawn_86

Vicki,

I have to agree with what a few others have said. Instead of continually stirring the pot, why not focus more energies on trying to learn new skills etc as there is heaps of free valuable info on this site.

If you dont have anything new to add then i think your job here is done.


----------



## awg

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Confidence_trick


----------



## Vicki

prawn_86 said:


> Vicki,
> 
> I have to agree with what a few others have said. Instead of continually stirring the pot, why not focus more energies on trying to learn new skills etc as there is heaps of free valuable info on this site.
> 
> If you dont have anything new to add then i think your job here is done.




Hi Prawn,
O.K.  I'll heed your advice...I'll wrap it up.

It just stirs up old memmories of having slick shysters run rings around 'soft' targets.

Yes, I do share responsibility for my losses, [I curse myself almost everyday for being so gullable].

Then I also think of certain people, that know exactly what you're in for,
But gladly seek-out & accomodate your ignorance!

I genuinely was interested in the validility of Bill's 'system', but I geuss your right, he won't or can't back-up his 'success'. [Bill hid from T/H].
Let this be an example to other newbies!

I do Intend to read more subject matter on this site, as I've already seen some trading Q's asked on other threads that I've often asked myself.

I wish I had've discovered this forum years ago.
Just reading through the archives, I found material directly relevant to the "DIMITRI" strategy, which would've made me think twice!

Anyway, I'll sign-off on this thread, & join in with other parts of this forum.


Cheers,
          Vicki
p.s. It appears yet again, another less than upstanding character, slips quietly away, back into the shadows.


----------



## J&M

I don't know you at all Vicki 
by your posts you seem a smart intelligent person 
which you need to be to have 2 houses and $150,000 in the bank 
You need to ask yourself the following questions 

When you lost your first house why every did you keep investing with Bill 
Then you lost the second house and you still kept investing 
Then with 2 houses gone you spent another $150,000 

The sequence may not be correct but I think you can see what I am saying 

Why ever did you keep investing with this Bill.
Did you seek alternative advice ? 
From a solicitor or investment planner or A.S.I.C 
Didn'T the alarm bells start ringing loud and clear

Some people get caught once but you got caught 3 times


castles made of sand as jimi said


----------



## nunthewiser

J&M said:


> castles made of sand as jimi said




blessim.


----------



## Vicki

o.k. my last post on this thread!
It wasn't as straight forward as that at the time, as it appears now.

Someone else described it perfectly, when he joked about people being "amped up" & "you can do it".

Cultish 'herd' mentality can be a very seductive, powerful & potentially dangerous state of mind, especially when their services include helping people to mortgage their homes, [a full service opperation]

Before you know it, your throwing good money after bad, & also trying to keep-up on interest payments at the same time [all the while, you have this ' I want/need to believe mentality]

Of course, eventually the whole 'house of cards comes tumbling down'.
Ironically, just as you start to actively question your educators.

My lesson, question everything, & so would advise any newbies to have the confidence to ask 'silly' questions from more experienced people, such as members of this forum.

Anyway, as  promised, I'm signing-off this thread!

Vicki
p.s. speak soon on another thread.


----------



## TeleSonic

tech/a said:


> Rents one has a dealer principal (so he says)
> Who would be doing cart wheels if he was directed to this site.
> OK looked up his name and his business.
> Zippo.
> 
> If you wish to go shark fishing go here.
> 
> Dont need a boat either.




Would seem Bill has been an authorised representative of at least 2 AFSL's, but does not (has not) ever had his own. He is not currently an AR of an AFSL, and therefore should not be talking, selling, mentoring, or otherwise doing anything in the public arena regarding trading / investing.

I read a comment regarding him being licensed when he speaks. No AFSL holder is going to appoint an individual as an authorised representative for a speaking engagement, and then take him off their books when he walks off stage. 

NEVER take advice from, invest with, or otherwise have financial dealings with anyone who does not either hold an AFSL, or is an authorised representative of an AFSL. You can search the ASIC registers and this is so easy to do, it is the most basic due dillegence.

The other point I will make, is that if an individual or company checks out with ASIC, and you decide to go ahead with their product / education / fund / whatever, NEVER hand over your hard earned directly to the authorised representative. ALWAYS make payment directly to the AFSL holder, and ensure any invoice or receipt you get has the AFSL company name, ABN, and AFSL number on it.

Also, being RG146 certified in itself means nothing. It's the most basic educational requirement, and only one of several requirements, to be allowed to operate as an authorised representative of an AFSL.


----------



## sails

Hi Vicki,

I can understand your frustration as I have also been caught into a couple of expensive seminars myself due to slick and persuasive marketing.  Thankfully, I decided not to go any further as I found internet forums and discovered these seminars are generally more hype than substance.

If you have a look at the storm financial thread here at ASF, you will see how people were sucked into some very risky deals while being led to believe everything was OK and, from reading their stories, made to feel somewhat stupid if they didn't go along with it. It might help you feel you are not so alone.

It is difficult when you are down with losses and you are told that, if you continue, you make your losses back and some. I can understand how it is possible for persuasive sales people to make it look completely reasonable to continue with them even though it is not the most prudent way to do things.  I know NLP type marketing can be quite controlling and there are probably versions of it that are used to make people feel "safe" when the alarm bells would normally be ringing loud and clear.

I feel it has made me more aware of the marketing methods used out there and, as soon as I suspect any sort of manipulation, I am out of there fast.  In fact, these massively long web pages (also found on Bill's site) put me right off.  Whenever I find one, I'm outta there fast...lol

And agree that it's good to move on as best you can and look for ways to recover your money more safely.  You have the benefit of experience where it is unlikely you will make the same mistakes again.  

I am sure your posts here as ASF will help others see a different side of the picture to weigh up if this sort of thing is really for them.  It is also quite possible that others who have been (or still to be) burned may make contact with you in the future where you can then work together as a group.

All the best...


----------



## builder2818

TeleSonic said:


> Also, being RG146 certified in itself means nothing. It's the most basic educational requirement, and only one of several requirements, to be allowed to operate as an authorised representative of an AFSL.




Care to list the other requirements champ?

There are no other requirements.


----------



## TeleSonic

builder2818 said:


> Care to list the other requirements champ?
> 
> There are no other requirements.




Builder2818, why would you make such a bold statement without doing your homework? Check out the regulatory guides and licensing kit on the ASIC website. 

There are many university subjects that satisfy ASIC's educational requirements. RG146 short courses are usually only completed by thoses that don't have a relevant tertiary degree. 

AFSL holders have significant obligations in ensuring that AR's they appoint are of good character. Background checks will include insolvency, police, and credit. 

Once appointed AR's must complete minimum ongong training requirements (Continued Professional Development), ususally around 20 - 30 hours per year. 

AR's must also either hold their own RG126 compliant PI Policy, or be listed as an insured under the AFSL's own policy. 

As you can see, there are many requirements for an AR to be appointed and remain as a representative of an AFSL.


----------



## builder2818

TeleSonic said:


> Builder2818, why would you make such a bold statement without doing your homework? Check out the regulatory guides and licensing kit on the ASIC website.
> 
> There are many university subjects that satisfy ASIC's educational requirements. RG146 short courses are usually only completed by thoses that don't have a relevant tertiary degree.
> 
> AFSL holders have significant obligations in ensuring that AR's they appoint are of good character. Background checks will include insolvency, police, and credit.
> 
> Once appointed AR's must complete minimum ongong training requirements (Continued Professional Development), ususally around 20 - 30 hours per year.
> 
> AR's must also either hold their own RG126 compliant PI Policy, or be listed as an insured under the AFSL's own policy.
> 
> As you can see, there are many requirements for an AR to be appointed and remain as a representative of an AFSL.




That is all ongoing if you wish to maintain your AR. I could go and do a 3 day course and get my RG146 compliance. If an AFSL holder is willing to take me on, I am good to go. With so many conmen out there, it's not that hard to get authorised representation.

Remember we are talking about authorised representatives here, as your previous post mentioned. Not a license holder.


----------



## TeleSonic

builder2818 said:


> I could go and do a 3 day course and get my RG146 compliance. If an AFSL holder is willing to take me on, I am good to go.




If you walk into an AFS Licensee's office waving your RG146 certificate and they appoint you without doing the necessary checks to ensure you meet all the other requirements, they have breached their license conditions. 

Ensuring you aren't a bankrupt is an up front requirement. Ensuring you have a clean police record is an upfront requirment. Ensuring you have RG126 Insurance in place is an upfront requirement. 

It has nothing to do with whether the AR hold's their own license or not. If Bill had his own license (be it personal or company), as an Individual he would have to meet the exact same criteria to act as an AR as if he was acting on behalf of another licensee. 

I agree there are bad reps out there, and yes it is probably too easy to get an AR status with a licensee. Which is why I suggest always transacting directly with the Licensee, and ensuring all invoices / receipts are from the licensee. A rep can dissapear very quickly, but a licensee has a far greater vested interest.


----------



## Vicki

Hi guys,

just touching base.

Another quick question for Bill Stacey & Andrew Dimitri.

How are things traveling these days..are you guys still trading/teaching?

If so, could you give us a run down on what stategies you're now using in todays economic climate.

regards,
              Vicki


----------



## tech/a

Vicki said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just touching base.
> 
> Another quick question for Bill Stacey & Andrew Dimitri.
> 
> How are things traveling these days..are you guys still trading/teaching?
> 
> If so, could you give us a run down on what stategies you're now using in todays economic climate.
> 
> regards,
> Vicki




Have you got a vendetta against all " educators ".
Your on Louise Bedfords case as well I notice.


----------



## wayneL

tech/a said:


> Have you got a vendetta against all " educators ".
> Your on Louise Bedfords case as well I notice.




You approve of Stacy's offering then?


----------



## tech/a

wayneL said:


> You approve of Stacy's offering then?




Where do you get that idea from?
I thought my two lines were pretty 
Succinct. 
Simple question from a simple observation.


----------



## wayneL

Just a little non-sequitur to follow on from your's tech/a.


----------



## tech/a

Both ( questions ) then are totally logical.
Agreement.


----------



## Vicki

Hi Guys,

No I certainly don't have a 'vendetta' against all educators.

Louise Bedford & her associate Chris Tate appear very experienced in this field.

I was just musing over a friends personal experience, after paying 7k for a course that drills into you a trading program/strategy & how to do it.

But, ask for an example of how such a stategy might work..and they just couldn't give viable examples, of how any of it works efficiently.

Like if a Kung-fu master couldn't show you a few moves...hmmm. [Chris]

I like their books though..And the course had lots of good info in general.

Just think people should stop short of saying hey, this's how it's done..and can't deliver.

But they're main saving grace...Is when I heard that they at least warned people over & over, to be careful...risk management..which's probably the best part of their teachings.

Kudos to them..

As I said...Morally, they're way above Bill Stacey & Andrew Dimitri.

Rgs.
       Vicki


----------



## Vicki

> As I said...Morally, they're way above Bill Stacey & Andrew Dimitri.
> 
> Rgs.
> Vicki





I think I should suggest to pest control firms, the service of removing financial termites lol.

Eroding away at peoples finances.

They could be doing it for a month of Sundays!...Never be out of work! Always Checking for these pests.haha.

Allcheck pest control..For all your financial pest control needs...sounds good?

By proxy, asf is already performing these services...thank goodness.

So Bill, on a more serious note, how are you going these days??
An update would be good.As there's still a chance of redeeming yourself..up to you?

Vicki


----------



## ftw129

Well I must say that this was certainly one entertaining hell of a read!

ASF just scored themselves another member lol.


----------



## aarbee

Bill Stacy's website doesn't seem to exist anymore. Even the old youtube videos are not available anymore.
Anyone know what he is upto nowadays. 

Cheers


----------



## wayneL

Dole Queue?

Digging ditches?

Bankruptcy court?

In hospital with a broken face?

Or perhaps in the Bahamas with all of your moneys?

Just guessing folks. :


----------



## ftw129

Maybe one of Bills members from the first page can come forward and give us an update?

MSS1963?
MIZONAX?
DOCTORPONI?
JASON502?
ISLU13?
Etc...

We'd love to hear how you're going and where Bill's disappeared to?


----------



## OneDayWealth

Sad little maggots. Wayne, you want to have a go? Shut your mouth xxxhole!

Vicki, you disobeyed ALL the rules, lost your money and you're STILL crying about it? Get a life! You're only embarrassing yourself and proving how much of a fool you were and obviously still are.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Sad little maggots. Wayne, you want to have a go? Shut your mouth xxxhole!
> 
> Vicki, you disobeyed ALL the rules, lost your money and you're STILL crying about it? Get a life! You're only embarrassing yourself and proving how much of a fool you were and obviously still are.




Classic.


----------



## skc

OneDayWealth said:


> Get a life! You're only embarrassing yourself and proving how much of a fool you were and obviously still are.




I can think of one other person on this thread that should heed to the above.


----------



## OneDayWealth

I can think of several.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Sad little maggots. Wayne, you want to have a go? Shut your mouth xxxhole!
> 
> Vicki, you disobeyed ALL the rules, lost your money and you're STILL crying about it? Get a life! You're only embarrassing yourself and proving how much of a fool you were and obviously still are.




Bill,

You are suggesting we have a fight?


----------



## mazzatelli

wayneL said:


> Dole Queue?
> 
> Digging ditches?
> 
> Bankruptcy court?
> 
> In hospital with a broken face?
> 
> Or perhaps in the Bahamas with all of your moneys?
> 
> Just guessing folks. :




He's doing another gurus option course!?!?!


----------



## wayneL

mazzatelli said:


> He's doing another gurus option course!?!?!




I don't know any gurus with no emotional control and prone to petulant outbursts.


----------



## McLovin

Wow, that was more entertaining than watching a story about rogue Gypsies doing shonky asphalting jobs and stealing pensioners' money on ACA or TT.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill,
> 
> You are suggesting we have a fight?




I'm guessing it's a desire of yours to see me bashed. I found that an _extremely _offensive comment so if you want - bring it, you're all so quick to spit in my face from behind the safety of your keyboards without any thought to the consequence of your posts. I'm just wondering if you'd have the guts to behave like disgusting grubs to my face. 

I did _nothing _but try to help people learn a skill and share one with those who asked and for that you suggest people would want to smash my face in and put me in hopital? It must be something that you would think of doing. It's your retarded fantasy. I respond like any self respecting person would when someone spits in their face. Deal with it or stop making retarded comments. 



mazzatelli said:


> He's doing another gurus option course!?!?!




Oh what a clever and useful comment. You must be very proud of your contribution.


----------



## prawn_86

I think a lot of posters in this thread need to take a step back and think before they post. PLease note we will not remove a post just because later down the track you decide you shouldn't of said it.


----------



## wayneL

LOL

From where I sit you offered an extremely inefficient modem (in terms of massive unnecessary contest risk) of day trading and tried to charge big bucks for it. It seems to me there is only one person you were trying to help.

Nothing wrong with that, we all have to scrounge a buck from somewhere; I just think there are more noble ways of doing it within this field. Like perhaps a complete options education, or examining more efficient means of day trading etc.

But that's just how I'd do it.

Why not just say what you're up to? Google is going to lead people here and instead of appearing stable, you've shown people that you don't seem to be stable at all.

Nice work champ.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> Sad little maggots...you want to have a go? Shut your mouth xxxhole!






OneDayWealth said:


> Oh what a clever and useful comment. You must be very proud of your contribution.




Unfortunately, I can't top yours


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> LOL
> 
> From where I sit you offered an extremely inefficient modem (in terms of massive unnecessary contest risk) of day trading and tried to charge big bucks for it. It seems to me there is only one person you were trying to help.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, we all have to scrounge a buck from somewhere; I just think there are more noble ways of doing it within this field. Like perhaps a complete options education, or examining more efficient means of day trading etc.
> 
> But that's just how I'd do it.
> 
> Why not just say what you're up to? Google is going to lead people here and instead of appearing stable, you've shown people that you don't seem to be stable at all.
> 
> Nice work champ.




You have no intimate knowledge of what I was and wasn't teaching and are clearly guessing. I have _repeatedly_ said what I was up to and believe me, people have paid MUCH more than I was charging for courses that did far less with no support. Unlike almost every other options trading course i did (and I think I did them all) I was there to help at all times and often spent hours and hours on the phone supporting my customers and making SURE they were aware of all the risks. l'm damn proud of what I did and will be no matter what you or anyone says. That's why I'm here defending myself and my actions when almost every other course seller would shy away. I've sold courses _because_ of this thread to people who gained confidence by knowing the person who was teaching them had the courage to stand up for his convictions. 

There are people who teach stunt driving and race car driving courses, there's a fair bit of risk in that too but they all take great pains to point out where the risks are and how to avoid them. I took my responsibility very seriously and I get furious when people take it upon themselves to destroy one person's good work for selfish reasons like wanting to push the blame for their losses onto someone else or making themselves and their own agendas look good. Bashing someone else to make yourself look good is lame/ There are all levels of trading style, some higher risk than others. That doesn't give anyone the right to PUBLICLY spit in someone else's face and wish them bashed, broke or in gaol just because they don't like the level of risk being taught by their competitors.  

This thread is tall poppy cutting in it's ugliest form. Disgusting and shameful but sadly typical.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> Unlike almost every other options trading course i did (and I think I did them all)



 Ah see, my guess wasn't too bad considering the history....:


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Ah see, my guess wasn't too bad considering the history....:




I was educating myself and will continue for my whole life. It's telling that you think that educating myself was wrong...lol classic. Have you decided that there is nothing else for you to learn? Do you think making silly comments about people furthering their education is smart? Do you know everything there is to know already? I know I don't.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> I was educating myself and will continue for my whole life. It's telling that you think that educating myself was wrong...lol classic. Have you decided that there is nothing else for you to learn? Do you think making silly comments about people furthering their education is smart? Do you know everything there is to know already? I know I don't.




lol your logical inference skills are terrible

The original Q was what is Bill up to these days...
I suggested you're educating yourself with another course, don't recall saying it was wrong to do so.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> lol your logical inference skills are terrible
> 
> The original Q was what is Bill up to these days...
> I suggested you're educating yourself with another course, don't recall saying it was wrong to do so.




Too late to back away from _your _inference now. Was your comment suppose to be complimentary? I don't think so.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> Too late to back away from _your _inference now. Was your comment suppose to be complimentary? I don't think so.




What has that got to do with me allegedly suggesting further learning is bad?


----------



## McLovin

Question: If you were making oodles of money day in day out, would you be wasting your time arguing with people on an IBB? I imagine you wouldn't care what people thought.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> What has that got to do with me allegedly suggesting further learning is bad?




P..a...lease.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> This thread is tall poppy cutting in it's ugliest form. Disgusting and shameful but sadly typical.



 P..a...lease


----------



## OneDayWealth

McLovin said:


> Question: If you were making oodles of money day in day out, would you be wasting your time arguing with people on an IBB? I imagine you wouldn't care what people thought.




I would have thought that was fairly obvious. _Defending myself!_ Who said anything about making oodles? Do you know how much money I made or have? There are plenty of people out there trading options that make heaps more than me. I made what I needed and kept what fell in my lap - you wouldn't? Just because I had a hundred bucks in my pocket doesn't mean I don't care when people go out of their way to publicly _spit _in my face, spread _malicious _lies and attempt to _destroy _my reputation in a vain attempt to shift the blame away from themselves. You've never heard of anyone wanting to defend themselves against these types of gutless online attacks?


----------



## McLovin

OneDayWealth said:


> I would have thought that was fairly obvious. _Defending myself!_




Why not just get a defamation lawyer to fix it? Of course you'll need to back up your claims...

I noticed on your Twitter account you have a link to Youtube that promises to show people "BillzWay $2,000 a week for life - guaranteed"

Good luck substantiating that one.


----------



## OneDayWealth

McLovin said:


> Why not just get a defamation lawyer to fix it? Of course you'll need to back up your claims...




Why should I waste all that money when I can speak for myself? What are you talking about "back up my claims"? The public attacks are pretty stark and here for everyone to see.


----------



## TeleSonic

Did anyone else get the banner ad to "invest in Brazilian forestry"? I assumed those to be mutually exclusive... But if we can sort that little issue I'm all for throwing a few dollars at it! 

...... Just my small contribution (oh dear) to the circus!


----------



## McLovin

TeleSonic said:


> Did anyone else get the banner ad to "invest in Brazilian forestry"? I assumed those to be mutually exclusive... But if we can sort that little issue I'm all for throwing a few dollars at it!
> 
> ...... Just my small contribution (oh dear) to the circus!




Firefox and AdBlock Plus, I haven't seen a banner ad in years.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> ....and wish them bashed, broke or in gaol just because they don't like the level of risk being taught by their competitors.
> 
> This thread is tall poppy cutting in it's ugliest form. Disgusting and shameful but sadly typical.






mazzatelli said:


> lol your logical inference skills are terrible




Mazza is sooo right.

Bill, my guesses as to your fate, doesn't mean I with them upon you. They were just guesses.

My only wish with regards to you is that I wish you'd stop cluttering up my inbox with abusive PMs.




OneDayWealth said:


> There are plenty of people out there trading options that make heaps more than me.




This is the first thing you've said that I have no problem believing.


----------



## wayneL

McLovin said:


> I noticed on your Twitter account you have a link to Youtube that promises to show people "BillzWay $*2,000 a week for life - guaranteed*"
> 
> Good luck substantiating that one.






OneDayWealth said:


> What are you talking about "back up my claims"? The public attacks are pretty stark and here for everyone to see.




Bill, what McLovin is talking about is as plain as the nose on your face.

YOU said $2000 a week guaranteed. You wrote the words. WE all know that is pie in the sky and you think we are gratuitously attacking you for calling you out on this type of marketing.

**Methinks he doth protest too much.


----------



## wayneL

> I bought Bill Stacy’s one day wealth course about 2 years ago and due to severe family illness was unable to do spend any time on it. Now I am ready to roll and guess what? His site is no longer! He’s dissapeared. Phone disconnected etc, even though we could “call him anytime”. When I bought the course I was suppossed to receive dvd’s when they were completed but until that time all of the info was posted on the site. So now there is no site and still no dvd’s. A couple of grand in his pocket for NOTHING!
> He always swore by his integrity and I gave him the benifit of the doubt. I feel pretty foolish now.
> Bill Stacy, where are you???




From http://jamiemcintyreexposed.com/?p=1


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> I've sold courses _because_ of this thread to people who gained confidence by knowing the person who was teaching them had the courage to stand up for his convictions.





​


----------



## prawn_86

McLovin said:


> Firefox and AdBlock Plus, I haven't seen a banner ad in years.




Off topic but please note that sites like ASF are kept free by providing advertising. If people dont support advertisers, free sites will slowly cease to exist.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill, what McLovin is talking about is as plain as the nose on your face.
> 
> YOU said $2000 a week guaranteed. You wrote the words. WE all know that is pie in the sky and you think we are gratuitously attacking you for calling you out on this type of marketing.
> 
> **Methinks he doth protest too much.




Well, I better go back and re-read every thread that you guys posted if you're going to go back and edit your comments after I've replied. That (fairly important?) detail was _not _posted when I replied but seeing as though you just want to keep stabbing me I'll reply to it. That referred to a money back guarantee if $2,000 a week wasn't maintained. As it is that idea failed logistically (and is totally unrelated to the stock market or this "discussion") and _*everyone got every cent of their money back*_. I made _nothing _and no one lost anything. Class act "McHater". I'll have to keep a close eye on anything you post in future in case you go back and change your words after my reply.  

Wayne, you might want to grab your little dic tionary and look up the difference between protesting and defending and replying and answering. 



wayneL said:


> From http://jamiemcintyreexposed.com/?p=1




Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good witch hunt. I stopped producing DVDs a long time ago as that person well knows. I made all my movies down-loadable so they could get access the videos immediately instead of waiting and to avoid plastic waste (my little act for the planet). 2 years ago!? For christ's sake. Why didn't they wait another 57 years and make a complaint then? _No_ complaint to me at the time that they were unable to download them or anything. I don't even know who this guy is but let's post it on a vicious attack site so they can get a good feeling for throwing rocks and to feed their "me too" addiction. 

The videos are still hosted on my account (even though I've sold the websites  and business to someone late last year who is rebuilding the websites as we speak) at amazon and anyone who has given me money for them is _certainly _ still welcome to them. They can burn them onto their own DVDs. I changed my phone numbers because I moved house (and sold the business) but my personal email address is still the same.  That person knows this and chose to ignore the facts in order to (I suspect) compensate for their own inadequacies and failures. Having a family illness is sad and I feel for them but to come back two years later without a complaint to that point and attack me on a hate site is poor form and I don't deserve it. I stand by every sale I have ever made and care about delivering what I promise. It's an unfair, unjustified and immoral attack. They need to check their emails for my new contact details. 

Anyone else wanna have a stab?


----------



## mazzatelli

Say there is an XYZ call option (at the money). Assume for one day only,  the underlying (XYZ) does not move at all, what generally happens to the value of  the call option and what are the factors to support your explanation?


----------



## McLovin

OneDayWealth said:


> Well, I better go back and re-read every thread that you guys posted if you're going to go back and edit your comments after I've replied. That (fairly important?) detail was _not _posted when I replied but seeing as though you just want to keep stabbing me I'll reply to it. That referred to a money back guarantee if $2,000 a week wasn't maintained. As it is that idea failed logistically (and is totally unrelated to the stock market or this "discussion") and _*everyone got every cent of their money back*_. I made _nothing _and no one lost anything. Class act "McHater". I'll have to keep a close eye on anything you post in future in case you go back and change your words after my reply.




Do you not see the stupidity in calling something guaranteed? Anyone who uses the word "guaranteed" in relation to anything to do with the stock market is up to no good.  I think you misspelt logically, and spelt it logisticly for some reason. 



			
				prawn86 said:
			
		

> Off topic but please note that sites like ASF are kept free by providing advertising. If people dont support advertisers, free sites will slowly cease to exist.




Fair call.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Say there is an XYZ call option (at the money). Assume for one day only,  the underlying (XYZ) does not move at all, what generally happens to the value of  the call option and what are the factors to support your explanation?




In all my years trading the top 20 I have never seen a stock that didn't move at all. Have you? If so, please point to it so I can have a look at the day when a top 20 stock flatlined all day. Sometimes they finish on their open but depending on what happened during the day the option will (obviously) lose value due to time decay. On rare occasions the option may increase slightly in value (if the volatility was high and the outlook is positive or due to over zealous buying). 

Is this going to turn into an exercise in trying to trip me up for gloating rights? Let me save you the trouble. I don't know everything about everything in the whole world. The way I trade uses simple techniques and obvious patterns. I don't trade thin moves and I don't teach others to. I use wide MAs so the move is clear and obvious and I operate on (and teach) hair triggers for exit. Please don't try to trip me up to prove a point. I've never claimed to be the world's top expert on options or options valuation models. 

I trade the obvious moves and that's what I teach others to do. I also don't teach analysis, only mechanics. I make this very clear that people will need to be on top of their TA skills and recommend several good resources. I also teach extensive paper trading which I must point out people generally fail to do due to their impatience. The very first question I ask when someone complains they had a losing trade (which I guarantee they will have) is "how much paper trading did you do before you started?". The answer will tell me if they prepared themselves well enough before risking money they _could_ afford to lose. 

The other obvious thing people usually ignore is to only trade with money they don't mind losing. I scream this to them several times and anyone who knows me (if they are being honest) will tell you that I am almost sickeningly insistent on making this very clear before they even buy my videos. In the end I explain exactly how I do what I do and advise them to take further learning from TA experts. I don't teach TA - others are better than me at teaching TA so I leave it up to them.


----------



## OneDayWealth

McLovin said:


> Do you not see the stupidity in calling something guaranteed? Anyone who uses the word "guaranteed" in relation to anything to do with the stock market is up to no good.  I think you misspelled logically, and spelled it logisticly for some reason. .




Again, what you plucked out of obscurity was NOTHING to do with stock markets, please read my entire response because I make that very clear. Besides, it's easy to guarantee if the guarantee is that that thing (which is guaranteed by a money back guarantee) will occur *or they will get their money back*. The guarantee is that _they will get their money back if that thing does not occur_. 

Again, let me reiterate, I was good to my word and _refunded 100% of their money_ back and took a hit because I invested heavily in affiliate software, time and advertising. I had a "brilliant" (and new) idea which was not so brilliant (after all) due to unforseen or unimagined factors and again...had NOTHING to do with the stock market at all. It was an IM product so let's not get too carried away hunting for new axes with which to split my head open. Please contain your blood lust, it's staining your character and credibility. 

No, I didn't spell it wrong (haha - you truly are hilarious little man). It failed due to _logistics_. Things that needed to happen by other people that were out of my control and did not happen. But again, let's be clear, this had nothing to do with the stock market. Nothing.


----------



## McLovin

OneDayWealth said:


> Besides, it's easy to guarantee if the guarantee is that that thing (which is guaranteed by a money back guarantee) will occur *or they will get their money back*. The guarantee is that _they will get their money back if that thing does not occur_.





Do you get money every time you use the word guarantee?


----------



## mazzatelli

lol, paranoid much.

It's a basic hypothetical question (hence I used the word assume), options 101, and if you don't know it, you have no business imo educating other people. 

You got time decay right. Anything else that would affect the call option value if hypothetically XYZ barely/does not move for the day? Assuming XYZ is an index, how/does the implied smile in vol affect the value as it moves away from atm reference vols?

This stuff, a first year finance undergrad student can answer.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> lol, paranoid much.
> 
> It's a basic hypothetical question (hence I used the word assume), options 101, and if you don't know it, you have no business imo educating other people.
> 
> You got time decay right. Anything else that would affect the call option value if hypothetically XYZ barely moves for the day? Assuming XYZ is an index, how/does the implied smile in vol affect the value as it moves away from atm reference vols?
> 
> This stuff, a first year finance undergrad student can answer.




Not paranoid at all. I'm not a finance undergraduate and have never made myself out to be and have found no need to waste my time delving into matters that do not concern me or the way I trade and besides I encourage further learning. I do not call my course a basic course or promise to teach people everything they might need to know one day.  

You can come up with a heap of nonsensical hypothetical questions to try to trip me up and it won't mean squat. I day trade so therefore I have no need to know stuff that does not affect me. I also don't have any skills as a vet...because I don't need them. 

Also, I'd like to point out that you have no business telling me what I can and can't do because you are clearly not aware of all the facts. I have little regard for your opinion on that. I've told you many times, I *day* trade options which does not call for an intimate knowledge of all the factors that might affect a long term options trade. Do you need a truck or pilot's license to drive a car? You drive a car so you learn the skills required to drive a car. You don't race, you don't drive trucks or fly planes so therefore you do not need to know about those things even though you might consider them "Transportation 101". More to the point, you do not need a degree in meteorology to know to slow down when it's raining. I drive to the conditions. I trade to the conditions and I trade what I see. 

When you enter a department store and you see an escalator going up and you want to go up do you need to fully understand the mechanics and engineering principles behind why the escalator is going up in order to ride it? No, you get on, it goes up. I show people how "I" determine if an escalator (or stock in this case) is going up and I let them make their own decisions. I don't hold hands, or make recommendations. I sell procedures and information and my experience and it's helped hundreds make money doing the same thing and I'm not the first or the last person to do it. 

I'm amused by your inability to accept the fact that I sell a procedural videos showing people how I trade and exactly how I set up my screens and charts. People want that (detailed step by step) information so they can ADD to their knowledge of trading and consider trading my "style" themselves. I have dozens of warnings about the risk and encourage further learning before they trade. I make no apologies for that nor do I need to. You have no basis on which to continuously attack me apart from your own voyeuristic pleasure. You may need to see a therapist for that because I can't make sense of that to be honest.


----------



## tech/a

> This stuff, a first year finance undergrad student can answer.




Hypothetical-------------
Could you point an to an index that hasnt moved in 24 hrs??

Mate I dont know the guy---dont want to know the guy---and from what I see your getting bugger all for your investment.The public are like Labradors---theyll eat anything that faintly resembles food---even sh**.

But I will say this.
If he persists in being involved in an on site vilification he will be the biggest loser.
Best thing to do in threads like this is SHUT THE **** UP.
Regardless of what benifit he thinks he will gain.---Wont happen.


----------



## mazzatelli

I removed market movement to make the question as simplistic as possible  since derivatives have many moving parts. The answer is simple,  no tricks. 

If we were to start asking what happens when XYZ trends, then other data  like how much did it move, time to expiry, relation to spot etc. are required which I  cbf thinking up right now.

Bill its called the basics. By your logic a boxer wouldn't need speedball drills, because they would never punch like that in a match. I'm certain though, no matter what boxing gym you walk in to, competence in its usage is required.

Anyway, I'm finished here


----------



## tech/a

*WHY TRADE


*


----------



## Joe Blow

Hi tech, I am not sure why those ads are showing on ASF. They have certainly not been approved by me. I will talk to the advertising agency that deals with ASF and get them removed.


----------



## tech/a

Joe Blow said:


> Hi tech, I am not sure why those ads are showing on ASF. They have certainly not been approved by me. I will talk to the advertising agency that deals with ASF and get them removed.




Bugga.
And there I was booking my flights to Barbados!


----------



## wayneL

Joe Blow said:


> Hi tech, I am not sure why those ads are showing on ASF. They have certainly not been approved by me. I will talk to the advertising agency that deals with ASF and get them removed.




Probably because of our friend and pillar of society (as he would have us believe), Bill Stacy and hi association with the likes of Jamie McIntyre et al. The servers might be picking up on this context?


----------



## wayneL

Bill,

So as we all knew anyway, you stress that you're a "daytrader", despite the odd overnight misadventure:



> https://twitter.com/#!/OneDayWealth/status/3554395011
> Oops...dropped $6.5k on an overnight trade today. Can't win them all. Overnighte sucks! Commies'll be upset that I'm reporting a loss...lol




Why on earth would you use the least efficient vehicle for daytrading? Furthermore, why on earth would you teach others to use the least efficient vehicle for daytrading?


----------



## Trembling Hand

wayneL said:


> Why on earth would you use the least efficient vehicle for daytrading? Furthermore, why on earth would you teach others to use the least efficient vehicle for daytrading?




I bet we don't get an answer backed by fact. Just a "it works for me"


----------



## nulla nulla

Joe Blow said:


> Hi tech, I am not sure why those ads are showing on ASF. They have certainly not been approved by me. I will talk to the advertising agency that deals with ASF and get them removed.




You'd think they would be smart enough to link to some pr0n adds. Totally wrong demographic for this lot.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Probably because of our friend and pillar of society (as he would have us believe), Bill Stacy and hi association with the likes of Jamie McIntyre et al. The servers might be picking up on this context?




I have never held myself up to be a pillar of society. Just a normal bloke. 



wayneL said:


> Bill,
> 
> So as we all knew anyway, you stress that you're a "daytrader", despite the odd overnight misadventure:
> 
> Why on earth would you use the least efficient vehicle for daytrading? Furthermore, why on earth would you teach others to use the least efficient vehicle for daytrading?




That's just your opinion. It works for me and it's what I use. It's the best I knew. That 6.5k loss you pointed to was a very large trade and should be taken in context. You can't just take that and say "see how much he loses?" that is wrong and misleading and self serving. I wish I knew a better way to give people a way to make a couple of grand a week or more from home. If I did I'd use it! In fact I tried (with IM) but so far nothing I have seen has the power of this but when I find it I'll be suggesting it in a snap.    



Trembling Hand said:


> I bet we don't get an answer backed by fact. Just a "it works for me"




That's not a smart or clever comment, that's obvious. Of COURSE I'm going to say that. It's the truth. What else would I say? You're prefer that I lie? How ordinary. The fact is that it does work for me, has done for years and yes sometimes the market does crazy things (that's the risk part!). It's what I figured out to do, did it for years and then started teaching it to others who despite my high risk alerts and warnings wanted to learn it. These are grown people with brains and the capacity to make their own decisions. 

I think you need to give people a bit of credit and not be so patronising and if there's a more efficient way to make a few grand a week (even just a couple of grand a week would be fine) then I'm all ears. Risking just a few hundred dollars to make a few dollars just for laughs is not doing the job. If you can show me a way to make a good $2,000 a week or more doing something with less risk I would love to hear it and I will teach that. 

Listen, I can't understand why you all want to make me out to be such a demon. Is it your hobby? is it that it's something that no one else teaches? Is it that you can't understand how I do it? Why do you want to "kill" me so badly? 

I saw people "hoping" to make a couple of grand a week and risking hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it willingly (selling covered calls...etc) and they lost dozens and dozens of thousands of dollars and more in come cases. I say "put 90% of it in the bank and use just a tiny fraction to try this". I don't force it down people's throats or claim to know better then everyone in the world (like some). It is what it is. yes, it works for me and works for others and stops them losing hundreds of thousands of dollars like I've sadly seen too many times. My method was a vast improvement on that and I'm proud. No amount of twisting the facts or my words or trying to predict what I'm going to say will change that. 

I tell you what I _was _lacking though and that was I could probably have been a bit better at TA so I could be in the market less or avoid some of those hits or trade with less money and I was always trying to learn more about that. What I was using 20k to do could probably be done just as well with 10k and with really good TA could probably be done with only 5k. In fact some days I did only use 5k and still made 5-10% two or three times a week which is more than enough to make $1,000+. 

If you guys are all so smart and really actually cared about the general public you should be saying "_Bill, you may be onto something here but your TA needs a polish, Let us show you how you can improve your method_". I know there is more than enough action and movement in the market to make a decent (multi thousand dollar) weekly wage from just risking $5,000 (which are MORE than happy to do). That is my only real regret is that I could not (as you say) make it more efficient. I hate leverage (eminins and CFDs) and would prefer to just risk hard cash without any lending. If anyone wants to be serious here show me how to make this better. 

I have the killer spreadsheets that tell you how much you're making at any given option price so use your vast amounts of knowledge and help us instead of trying to just kill me, my business and the hopes and dreams of thousands. I would be more than happy to share the profits with anyone who can sharpen my aim. Somehow I don't think anyone will stand forward and say "I'll help - let's do this!"  I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## wayneL

Dear Lord! Where do I start?

Perhaps I'll just cut to the chase:



> If you guys are all so smart and really actually cared about the general public you should be saying "Bill, you may be onto something here but your TA needs a polish, Let us show you how you can improve your method". I know there is more than enough action and movement in the market to make a decent (multi thousand dollar) weekly wage from just risking $5,000 (which are MORE than happy to do).




This is the whole point, you are not onto anything apart from sucking noobs into an expensive, but essentially worthless course. By your own admission, you don't have anything to offer in terms of a method or analysis.



> That is my only real regret is that I could not (as you say) make it more efficient. I hate leverage (eminins and CFDs) and would prefer to just risk hard cash without any lending. If anyone wants to be serious here show me how to make this better.




LMAO.... ROTFLMAO.... AHAHHAHA!

You hate leverage but use a leveraged product... and using that leverage massively? A leveraged product that delta for delta has the greatest contest risk by freaking miles?

Good God man, give yourself a slap in the ear and wake the &^%& up. 

You may have a defined absolute risk with long options, but in the context of day trading, this is irrelevant and you are paying up for it.

Well that's me for a few days. I'm off to Auckland to look at a property and catch up with some colleagues.

Thanks for the amusement.


----------



## McLovin

OneDayWealth said:


> "_Bill, you may be onto something here but your TA needs a polish, Let us show you how you can improve your method_".




Something's sure gettin' polished but it ain't your TA.


----------



## OneDayWealth

By leverage I meant "borrowing money". The rest of your response was pretty much what I expected. I didn't say I have NO method or analytics to offer. I offer a lot but at least I'm man enough to admit where things can be improved. Not like you the almighty perfect trader who's fine tearing people down but all you can do is make up facts to suit your own empty arguments. What a pityful display. You have nothing to offer but your own twisted way of mutilating anything you don't understand (I bet you enjoy killing small animals too) and twisting words around to suit your own agenda which is clearly to appear like a big man who knows it all when by reading your own posts you know very little about the realities of day trading options which you've obviously never even looked into. So best you stop embarrasing yourself because you are looking weaker and weaker by the post. I feel sorry for small tiny insignificant people like you who like to pick and chose words to suit yourself. Go and play with your property nightmare because you clearly have _nothing _of value to offer here.

McHater, you'd know all about that wouldn't you? You're clearly a pro.


----------



## McLovin

OneDayWealth said:


> McHater, you'd know all about that wouldn't you? You're clearly a pro.




90% of men admit to it, 10% lie...

It wouldn't surprise me you're in the 10%.


----------



## OneDayWealth

McLovin said:


> 90% of men admit to it, 10% lie...
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me you're in the 10%.




Sad little boy. Is the only contribution you can make here an "expert's" discussion on masturbation? **** off or grow up and contribute you sad little fool.


----------



## McLovin

OneDayWealth said:


> Sad little boy. Is the only contribution you can make here an "expert's" discussion on masturbation? **** off or grow up and contribute you sad little fool.




Winding you up is like shelling peas. And from what I can see, you're flat out counting past ten, so I figure at least masturbation jokes won't fly over your head...

But anyway, I'll leave you to it Mr 10%.


----------



## OneDayWealth

McLovin said:


> Winding you up is like shelling peas. And from what I can see, you're flat out counting past ten, so I figure at least masturbation jokes won't fly over your head...
> 
> But anyway, I'll leave you to it Mr 10%.




You really do have a bizarre fascination with the subject but I thank you for your "valuable" contribution to this discussion. Wouldn't expect anything less from gutless weeds, warts and boils who hide behind nameless avatars.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> By leverage I meant "borrowing money".



Err mate. You are "borrowing" when trading options. You buy/sell 1 option and borrow the outcome of 1000 shares from a counter party.

You are borrowing something, in this case equities which have a monetary value, from someone else. 



OneDayWealth said:


> twisting words around to suit your own agenda which is clearly to appear like a big man who knows it all when by reading your own posts you know very little about the realities of day trading options which you've obviously never even looked into.




Ok Ok. Then can me please just get to the actual machanics of what you do?

Can you give us a detailed example of an options day trade? PLEASE??

I don't care if its hindsight, one you took or one you wished you did or whatever but something like this.

BHP opened yesterday @ 36.27 and quickly fell to $36.10 then it started to bounce and my system gave/would of gave a buy signal at $36.22. I bought/would of bought option Call XYZ @ and sold @ when BHP got to $36.42.

FFS please!! Do an example and show us why daytrading options is the way.


----------



## lindsayf

Beauty!  Season 2 at last.
Thanks Vicki.


----------



## OneDayWealth

lindsayf said:


> Beauty!  Season 2 at last.
> Thanks Vicki.



 



Trembling Hand said:


> Err mate. You are "borrowing" when trading options. You buy/sell 1 option and borrow the outcome of 1000 shares from a counter party.
> 
> You are borrowing something, in this case equities which have a monetary value, from someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok Ok. Then can me please just get to the actual machanics of what you do?
> 
> Can you give us a detailed example of an options day trade? PLEASE??
> 
> I don't care if its hindsight, one you took or one you wished you did or whatever but something like this.
> 
> BHP opened yesterday @ 36.27 and quickly fell to $36.10 then it started to bounce and my system gave/would of gave a buy signal at $36.22. I bought/would of bought option Call XYZ @ and sold @ when BHP got to $36.42.
> 
> FFS please!! Do an example and show us why daytrading options is the way.




Sure, I thought I already had earlier on in this epic thread but I have attached some images for you to look at. 

As far as borrowing is concerned, no, you're not borrowing when you buy an option. You're simply buying an option which is just a thing that has value (for whatever reason - I don't care). I take my real cash which I have saved up and instead of buying a rusty Commodore or Falcon or Mazda, a holiday or try to start a small business (all of which can lead to massive almost guaranteed losses anyway), I buy something that has value (in this case an option) and then sell it that day. Simple, straightforward transaction. There is no "borrowing" (in the normal sense of the word) and my cash is in the bank every night. Most big losses I have suffered have been from leaving options in the market overnight so I hate doing that now - though I might do it with my profits on occasion though mostly I regret it. 

I have hundreds of examples, some live actual trades on video (Only $1,000 profit but it was in 4 minutes and could have been more if I'd moved earlier which is why I'm asking for more TA help!) and heaps of (real) screen shots I've used over the years to show and teach others and of course years of experience (since 2004) doing it. I'm 100% sure that even if I post screen shots the trolls will claim I've doctored them or they'll have some other stupid comment (I've heard them all before) but if you are serious about wanting to know I don't mind posting them up. Not sure what the rules are around here but I'm sure I'll be accused of self promotion or be attacked in some other way (from experience). I would have to estimate I've done this hundreds of times a year. 

Most days I'll trade once, take a grand or two and then relax and get on with my life. Other days I've done multiple trades. Some days I'll take a small loss and quit and others I'll take the maximum loss I allow myself and feel **** for days - I'm human and prone to mistakes just like everyone else. I have never claimed to be a guru or expert, I just do what I do and show others if they insist. In a usual week I will make some and lose some but usually come out in front (if I stick to my own rules and don't experiment). I've studied American day traders and adapted some of their moving averages and candle sizes to suit our market. It took me a while to settle in but I haven't changed my MAs or candle sizes for years now.  

The process is as simple as buying anything. All I have to do is look at a stock (I use top20), notice a pattern (all the usual patterns you guys know will apply), if I see it's "on the move" I'll look at the at the money (or there abouts) option for the current or next month, buy it and sell it a few cents later usually for a 5-10% profit on my original cash investment. I do this 2, 3 up to 6 or 10 times a week. Usually 2 or 3. How much I'm willing to risk is up to me. The big argument I get from guys like you all is that I'm risking too much money and I could lose it all at once. 

I've never lost it all at once and usually have a 10% stop loss with a 15% maximum loss. Very rarely will an option move faster than I can get out but it can happen and that is the general market risk I suppose. If I take any more of a loss than that I'm slacking off. I have made bigger losses (usually in the early days) but my spreadsheet (with macros) tells me my exact profit and loss (after fees and taxes) for every cent of option move so unless I let the trade run without monitoring it (which is not advised) I can sell out for a reasonable profit or loss. 

One look at the price of options on any day on the top 10 (or 20) and you will see options moving from 80c to 90c or 110c or even more. All I need is 5-10% (to compete with going to work in a factory) and I'm very happy. 60-66, 70-77, 80-88, 200-220, these moves happen all day and every day. Any day I make a few hundred dollars is a great day and if I make over a grand I'm stunned, always have been and expect always will be. 

I use a moving average which I've tuned to suit what most stocks move and a short multi minute candle and a special chart that only WebIRESS has to watch the stock and you will be surprised how predictable and how much they move almost every day. 

Obviously there are unpredictable turn arounds but all I need is one bad candle and I'm out. I've doubled money, I've halved money but for the most part I just take a lazy 5-10%. At first, I couldn't believe it could be so easy and that I must be missing something. But then I just saw the options moving as regular as clockwork day in and day out and I calculated how many I'd have to to buy to make use of the average reasonably predictable move and slowly I started to see patterns and worked out how to trade them. 

What do you want to see? I have real trades I did, screen shots of potentials, movies of real trades and losses. I have exits comparing my MA against fibs, anything you want. But I can predict the response. There will be the usual dunderheads who think they can do better and to that I say "great! - do better" this works for me, it's teachable and regular and keeps me out of work. It may not be perfect but it is what it is. Interesting that when I asked for TA experts to lend a hand everyone ran away but the offer still stands. 

I have attached a perfect example of how to make money and how my entry "could have been" earlier but even with my late entry (I don't like trading before 11am) this is still a $3,000 day trade. I have shots of perfect days and crappy (untradeable) days and small profits and massive profits. I have attached a perfect dead-easy ANZ day trading opportunity on Christmas eve which is a day that nearly everyone believes is useless for trading. Almost every Christmas eve I've traded has presented excellent and simple trading opportunities. 

You might say (and I've heard it dozens of times) that I'm risking 100% of my bank which is a no-no but that's not always true. This method is for people who don't mind risking $5,000, $10,000 or even $20,000 because they can compare it to "just spending it" or risking it in a normal (bound to fail) small business but in actual fact this was originally aimed at people who had 100k or more to trade with and were happy to take a good "wage" of a grand or two a week. 

I would ask them to consider leaving 90% of it in safe in the bank and only risking 10k on day trading and only be willing to lose 15% of that (maximum - prefer 10% loss). 10% loss on 10k is only 1k lost from the 100k they were really going to risk (selling spreads or buying stocks to gain a measly 10% a year (if lucky!)) so in fact they only lose 1% (of their initial 100k) which is bearable. The cost is that they would have to "attend" the day trade and sit there watching while the trade goes ahead which doesn't suit everyone. 

Obviously borrowing $10k on a credit card and putting it all on a day trade is not advisable or smart but who am I to tell people to just stay in their disgusting factory jobs and never have any hope of a better life? If it's between buying a crappy second hand car for $10k or placing it on the market and making a possible gain by active trading, one is a certain loss and the other is a possible gain. In my world that's a no brainer.


----------



## Trembling Hand

So bill here is the point. from that first pic it looks like you entered a trade when ANZ was @ $12.95ish and went to $13.25 where you exited? gaining a profit of 12.5 cents in the option (95-82.5 = $0.125)? 

Is that right? Your method correctly picked a  30 cents move in ANZ and you gained 12.5 cents?


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## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> So bill here is the point. from that first pic it looks like you entered a trade when ANZ was @ $12.95ish and went to $13.25 where you exited? gaining a profit of 12.5 cents in the option (95-82.5 = $0.125)?
> 
> Is that right? Your method correctly picked a  30 cents move in ANZ and you gained 12.5 cents?




Yep. x 1000 (shares per contract) = ($125 per contract) x number of contracts (around 24 or 20k) = around $3,000 profit. 

These days option contracts are obviously 100 but it still works out the same. That trade was back in '09.


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## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Yep. x 1000 (shares per contract) = ($125 per contract) x number of contracts (around 24 or 20k) = around $3,000 profit. .




yep you truly have no friggin idea what you are doing.

Ignoring the BS about MA trading signals. Especially on WebIress because their charts are ony 1 day snap shot. I don't want to get in a fight about the expectancy of a MA cross system. There is too much in the above example to laugh at first.

So your position was. 27 X 1000 (options X shares per option) = 27,000 ANZ shares.

Your profit, (we will get back to brokerage + spread lata)

$0.125 X 27,000 = $3375

What you would do if you had 1/2 a brain would of been to by 27000 ANZ shares.

$0.30 X 27,000 = $8100 profit.

You nutbag!! That is why options are sh!te for daytrading and why what your are teaching is dangerous .* Same amount of exposure*, 27,000 shares, *Less than half the profit!!* Plus increased amount of cost (brokerage + spread)


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## Trembling Hand

To add further. Have you thought about the dude who was on the other side of your trade?????????????????????? The market maker?

She sells you a call of 27000 ANZ shares. So she is now short via an option. So to hedge he goes long 27000 ANZ. She is now neutral and you carry all the risk of the trade. 

ANZ raises $0.30 so you sell back to her the oppy. She then closes her long.

You made 12.5 cents from the oppy trade and took all the risk.
She made 30 cents from the ANZ trade lost 12.5 cents from the oppy trade. She made 17.5 cents and took no risk.

LOL see my signature below :sheep:


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## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> yep you truly have no friggin idea what you are doing.
> 
> Ignoring the BS about MA trading signals. Especially on WebIress because their charts are ony 1 day snap shot. I don't want to get in a fight about the expectancy of a MA cross system. There is too much in the above example to laugh at first.
> 
> So your position was. 27 X 1000 (options X shares per option) = 27,000 ANZ shares.
> 
> Your profit, (we will get back to brokerage + spread lata)
> 
> $0.125 X 27,000 = $3375
> 
> What you would do if you had 1/2 a brain would of been to by 27000 ANZ shares.
> 
> $0.30 X 27,000 = $8100 profit.
> 
> You nutbag!! That is why options are sh!te for daytrading and why what your are teaching is dangerous .* Same amount of exposure*, 27,000 shares, *Less than half the profit!!* Plus increased amount of cost (brokerage + spread)




Lol, are you serious?! YOU truly have no idea what *you're* doing. let's prove it shall we? There is _so_ much wrong in your reply I'm surprised you even posted it. Next time you should think a bit longer before you post or even better yet, make sure you know what you're talking about before posting. You MUST have known you were guessing because it's clear that you have very little real experience in options. I'd also suggest learning how to use a calculator. It will save you from making any more *$328,000*  mistakes...lol

1) WebIress is not a daily snapshot (have you ever used it?). It's a live platform with instant live updates that is used by most brokers and many traders. What possible use would a daily snapshot be to anyone? Check your facts.

2) 27,000 options cost me $20,000. 27,000 shares would have cost me *$348,300!!!* - calculator - use a calculator.

3) If I had used my $20,000 to buy shares (as you suggest) I could only have afforded 1,544 of them (at $12.95) and could have sold them for $13.25 creating a profit of $458 minus a couple of hundred dollars in brokerage (most firms charge a minimum of $100 per trade on shares - Options cost a minimum of $26.50 but I usually pay about $120 in and out combined). That would have given me the daily average share price move of 1% which is still pretty good (annualised if you can make 1% every day). With the same money risked I made 15 times more (15%)!

You nutbag!! That is why options are fantastic for daytrading and why what your are saying is dangerous and wrong.* Vastly reduced exposure and more than 15 times the profit!!* Plus decreased amount of cost (brokerage). 

Wow, _*how does it feel to make a $328,000 mistake in front of the whole forum*_? lol...please, if you're going to call me a nutbag it might pay to check your facts first. You got almost _everything_ in that post _catostrophically_ wrong! Oh my god, I'm so embarrassed for you...lol You fire the arrow forward at the target not backwards at your own head. 

Lol, that was classic. At least now I know who I'm dealing with. If you can something this basic so wrong you have no right to be calling anyone a nutbag. Apology presumed and accepted. Classic.


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## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> To add further. Have you thought about the dude who was on the other side of your trade?????????????????????? The market maker?
> 
> She sells you a call of 27000 ANZ shares. So she is now short via an option. So to hedge he goes long 27000 ANZ. She is now neutral and you carry all the risk of the trade.
> 
> ANZ raises $0.30 so you sell back to her the oppy. She then closes her long.
> 
> You made 12.5 cents from the oppy trade and took all the risk.
> She made 30 cents from the ANZ trade lost 12.5 cents from the oppy trade. She made 17.5 cents and took no risk.
> 
> LOL see my signature below :sheep:




lol, you classic. Why would I care what someone else makes? I just made $3,000 in 3 hours. Good luck to the maker! I thank him for making the opportunity available to me. I'd send him a case of beer if I knew who he was. 

You should look at your own signature. You have made no point in this reply and if I were you I would worry more about your previous reply before calling anyone a sheep. You clearly have no idea what you're saying as proven by your previous reply where *you made a three hundred THOUSAND dollar error in your calculations!!!*. lol. 

This is a clear case why practical experience beats theoretical posturing. You really are struggling to prove me wrong when I have hundreds of real live trades and years of experience backing me up. The difference is I KNOW I'm right but you only THINK you're right. *Huge* difference in the real world buddy.


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## Trembling Hand

OMG. I fully understand the size of 27000 ANZ shares @ 12.95. That was your exposure. Whether you bought it in direct shares or options you had exposure to 27000 anz shares. If your account is too small to handle that then you are way effin over leveraged.

And yes I know WebIress well, stopped using in 2005. The intraday charts are ONLY for that day. How the hell you can use indicators on that I have no idea. You have to wait for 20 bars before your indicators will work. You are using the absolutely wrong tool with a statistical proven losing method while way way over-leverage trading a low delta product with high spread and crappy brokerage.. And charging people on top of it.

AND then..............


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## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> OMG. I fully understand the size of 27000 ANZ shares @ 12.95. That was your exposure. Whether you bought it in direct shares or options you had exposure to 27000 anz shares. If your account is too small to handle that then you are way effin over leveraged.
> 
> And yes I know WebIress well, stopped using in 2005. The intraday charts are ONLY for that day. How the hell you can use indicators on that I have no idea. You have to wait for 20 bars before your indicators will work. You are using the absolutely wrong tool with a statistical proven losing method while way way over-leverage trading a low delta product with high spread and crappy brokerage.. And charging people on top of it.
> 
> AND then..............




FFS give it a rest dude. My exposure was NOT 27,000 x $12.95! lol are you SERIOUS?! Can you read English? Do you understand numbers at all? I bought options that were worth 82 and a half cents! It is 100% irrelevant what the underlying share they derive their value from is worth. ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT!!! I did not buy it nor did I have the money to buy it nor would I ever buy it when I can make SO much more buy buying a simple option at less than 12 times it's value and making over 15 times more than if I'd bought the share? Can you even read English? 

I never said WebIRESS is the ONLY tool I use - did I? Once again this proves that you don't read. I also use Bourse and WebIress combined which gives me all the analysis I need and besides WebIress carries two days data these days (you didn't know that did you?) but yesterday's price has little bearing on today's candles because I PREFER to ignore the first 1 hour anyway which works perfectly with what you think is wrong with WebIress. *It actually works in my favour* so you really don't know everything do you? You clearly don't know squat about day trading options so please, do us all a favour... 

How can it be a "proven losing method" when I have years of experience in not only using it myself but in helping others use it successfully as well? It's clearly a _proven winning method_ by all definitions - providing you call real use over years proof. 

Your leverage example is totally irrelevant. I buy "things" which I sell later that day for more. Plain and simple. Just like any other business that buys and sells things. Cars, milk, chips...they all sell things which they bought for less. Your love of theory is leaving you behind in the real world in a cloud of righteousness that doesn't allow you to see clearly something that is right in front of your face. 

Yes I charge people and have NO problem in doing so. If I'm going to show them how to make thousands of dollars a day whether you or anyone else likes it or not that's worth something. Your jealousy is getting in the way of your thinking. If you can help people make money and they are using it and really making money then you should and could and should feel good about selling it also. Or maybe your politics doesn't allow you to make money or you believe that making money is evil - whatever, your problem is not my problem. 

I've PROVEN this works _thousands_ of times! What else is there to prove? Nothing. I'd love to constantly improve it of course but what works, works and there's no denying it. Stop hating, start listening. Your blind rage and hate of something someone else is doing that you can not do is clouding your judgment and you are scraping the barrel trying to find things to disprove a reality. 

You don't know everything especially after making such massive mistakes in your calculations and argument. Get a battery for your calculator take your head out of your **** and maybe you will see there are other things in the world going on that you just might not be aware of. While you are making love to your irrelevant theory I'm out there practicing and making money and helping others. Jealousy is a curse - get over it dude. FFS. lol


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## builder2818

I enjoy reading this thread........it gets a little too much after a while reading the same types of replies from both sides.

Bill seems to be making money (as he states) and all the best to him if he is - I would like to be earning the money he claims and i'd probably sell ice to eskimo's if I had the gift of the gab....my family has to eat, I could care less about the person next to me.

I have no doubt there are people on this forum who know the ins and outs of everything to do with options and would like to know if they use this extensive knowledge to actually trade and make money for a living? Not some "first year finance undergraduate" who got a distinction in learning the Black-Scholes Method - that I could less about.

Bills trading style seems like it's just taking a punt on which direction a stock will be moving and believing in a few signals and indicators to increase the probability of the trade going his way. Obviously if he's paying $20,000 for some calls and puts, a small increase in the value of the options is going to result in a tidy profit (and also a large loss if not sold back to the market quick enough when the trade has gone wrong).


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## OneDayWealth

builder2818 said:


> I enjoy reading this thread........it gets a little too much after a while reading the same types of replies from both sides.
> 
> Bill seems to be making money (as he states) and all the best to him if he is - I would like to be earning the money he claims and i'd probably sell ice to eskimo's if I had the gift of the gab....my family has to eat, I could care less about the person next to me.
> 
> I have no doubt there are people on this forum who know the ins and outs of everything to do with options and would like to know if they use this extensive knowledge to actually trade and make money for a living? Not some "first year finance undergraduate" who got a distinction in learning the Black-Scholes Method - that I could less about.
> 
> Bills trading style seems like it's just taking a punt on which direction a stock will be moving and believing in a few signals and indicators to increase the probability of the trade going his way. Obviously if he's paying $20,000 for some calls and puts, a small increase in the value of the options is going to result in a tidy profit (and also a large loss if not sold back to the market quick enough when the trade has gone wrong).




True, but everyone in business takes a "punt" every day and TA and candle analysis has been around for a long time. Sometimes the trades are so easy it's like stepping onto an escalator that says "up" and yes you can't just leave your trade you have to monitor it but for me it's better to be monitoring a trade from the comfort of wherever I am than to be slaving away as a welder in a stinking hot boiler shop. I see people throwing away tens of thousands of dollars on small business ideas all the time and you know the stats on the success for small business - most fail. yes there are risks but if you know them and what they look like they are more than manageable. 

Sorry if this thread has been a bit hard on the eyes and believe me I'd be far happier explaining than arguing with haters but they exist everywhere and I can't stand idly by and have my name dragged through the mud for no good reason. I deal with adults (not children) - they know the risks (I explain them very well) and we do business. Some people have a real problem with that because they are imagining something that's not there but with cool heads good decisions will prevail and everyone (has at least a decent chance) of winning which is far preferred than just sitting back, complaining and throwing rocks at strangers. 

I wish you well builder, you seem like you have a cool head.


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## ftw129

I'm a little surprised that a few posters on here cannot see that buying an option only to sell it again (whether it's puts or calls) does not carry any more exposure than what you paid for the option.

I buy options with the intention of selling them days or weeks later. I never wish to exercise them so my ultimate risk is what I paid for that option full stop. It's irrelevant to me how much "exposure" the underlying options have as I (being the buyer) have no intention of ever exercising them.

And yes I have seen option prices move 20,30,40...100%+ in a single day.

Don't know if that helps.


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## ColB

McLovin said:


> *Winding you up is like shelling peas*. And from what I can see, you're flat out counting past ten, so I figure at least masturbation jokes won't fly over your head...
> 
> But anyway, I'll leave you to it Mr 10%.




*Posted by Bill Stacey 11 April 2009*

1.	You know what?

I'm done with you guys. What a bunch of losers. I'm trying to help people here and all you can do is critisize and complain like a bunch of bitter old women. You wouldn't know a genuine opportunity if it came and smashed you in the face! 
Timmy 11 April 2009

*Posted by Timmy 11 April 2009*

1.	As a piece of free advice, and FWIW to you, your reception on ASF will be warmer if you contribute to the forum with some posts/threads discussing some trades (winners and losers - no one is perfect), what triggered the entry, the exit etc. There is the occasional person providing a good/service on ASF who does contribute positively in such a manner, and of course such contributions are valued more highly than simply those setting forth the case for some good/service. 


*Posted by Bill Stacey 12 April 2009*

Mod you can delete all links and can delete all my posts or even this whole stupid thread. 

Jaxon, cutz and all your other gutless lurkers you are defaming me and calling me a liar and I take offence at your accusations. Every single word on my website is true. All trades are real and can be proven. You are small and useless people who will never amount to anything.........

*25 February 2012* - For over two years you have threatened to leave ASF and we continue to put up with your psychotic episodes however entertaining they may be at times.  

Only yesterday Trembling Hand asked you to put up some factual trades and you pull out data as far back as 2009????  You're not really putting up much about anything that would cause you to gain some credibility and one would really wonder why you persist with such longwinded posts.

I'm not much of an expert at anything and I dont profess to be, but with a large number of years of lifes experience I would contend that a Phsychologist should be able to help you with your problems


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## OneDayWealth

ftw129 said:


> I'm a little surprised that a few posters on here cannot see that buying an option only to sell it again (whether it's puts or calls) does not carry any more exposure than what you paid for the option.
> 
> I buy options with the intention of selling them days or weeks later. I never wish to exercise them so my ultimate risk is what I paid for that option full stop. It's irrelevant to me how much "exposure" the underlying options have as I (being the buyer) have no intention of ever exercising them.
> 
> And yes I have seen option prices move 20,30,40...100%+ in a single day.
> 
> Don't know if that helps.




Exactly! I too have seen the larger moves but don't like to focus on them, if they happen they happen but I expect 5-10% two or three times a week and that's enough. If you are really good at TA you can use far less than 20k to make a couple of grand a week. With as little as $5k at risk you can replace your wage if you're good with charts. I see missed opportunities all the time. 

Thanks for your post you hit the nail directly on the head!


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## Trembling Hand

ftw129 said:


> I'm a little surprised that a few posters on here cannot see that buying an option only to sell it again (whether it's puts or calls) does not carry any more exposure than what you paid for the option.




Dude what we are arguing is that its a very poor way to gain exposure to your trade idea. Just look at the ANZ example.

You have to buy huge positions and gain a fraction of the move. While exposing yourself to outsized cost. Its a dumb way to day trade.



> And yes I have seen option prices move 20,30,40...100%+ in a single day.



 Yeah? So what?* thats moves on minimum margin*. What are the risk adjusted moves? whats going to stop you getting - 10% -30% for a few days each week and copping your account in half?


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## skyQuake

lol@ webiress being used by "most brokers and traders"

Crossing the spread on oppies all the time while waiting for lagging indicators is definitely a statically losing strat.
Why do you think Optiver/Timberhill/Tibra/Susq/IMC have stayed in business that long?


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## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Exactly! I too have seen the larger moves but don't like to focus on them, if they happen they happen but I expect 5-10% two or three times a week and that's enough. If you are really good at TA you can use far less than 20k to make a couple of grand a week. With as little as $5k at risk you can replace your wage if you're good with charts. I see missed opportunities all the time.




I bet you cannot.

How about you post 20 live trades as they happen over the next two weeks in whatever instrument you think is best for day trading and I'll do the same if you like. I have no idea where I'll end up but at a guess 60% win rate 1:2 R:R. for me.

For you?? I reckon you won't even be able to do it cause you work at a car wash blacking tyres.

U



Me


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## ColB

Trembling Hand said:


> I bet you cannot.
> 
> How about you post 20 live trades as they happen over the next two weeks in whatever instrument you think is best for day trading and I'll do the same if you like. I have no idea where I'll end up but at a guess 60% win rate 1:2 R:R. for me.
> 
> For you?? I reckon you won't even be able to do it cause you work at a car wash blacking tyres.
> 
> U
> View attachment 46201
> 
> 
> Me
> View attachment 46200




Time to put up or shut up Bill!  Quite simple really.  

I'm tipping we'll need a mod to verify the authenticity of your trades though......OR is it going to be the usual deflection of 'I don't need to prove anything' or tell us to all 'crawl under our rocks again'

What's it gunna be Bill?


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## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> I bet you cannot.
> 
> How about you post 20 live trades as they happen over the next two weeks in whatever instrument you think is best for day trading and I'll do the same if you like. I have no idea where I'll end up but at a guess 60% win rate 1:2 R:R. for me.
> 
> For you?? I reckon you won't even be able to do it cause you work at a car wash blacking tyres.
> 
> U
> View attachment 46201
> 
> 
> Me
> View attachment 46200




Not only is $5,000 plenty to make enough money to replace the average wage I've done it a few times and seen others do it as well. It's less stressful to use more money and stay in the market for less time thereby minimising the risk. The fact that you don't know that really does prove your inexperience in the method yet again. You've already proven you don't have any experience in day trading options so your comments aren't really relevant to this discussion. You've already proven you make massive mistakes in your calculations and don't have the most basic grasp of the topic. *It's hard to have a reasonable debate with someone who makes hundred thousand dollar mistakes*.

I have nothing I need to prove to the likes of you. I'm far beyond and well over stupid forced trading competitions. Real trading is never forced so it will prove nothing. If I don't find a good trade one day and you do what will that prove? Nothing. If anything it will prove that I don't force trades like you want me to do. In fact that proves you will lose because if you force trades just to prove a point you are a loser trader right there. It shows weak mental skills and will lose you money very fast. *I suggest you re-evaluate your trading methods if you think forcing trades is proof of skill. It's proof of stupidity. *

Again, if you don't know that options can move enough in a day to make money or how to take advantage of these moves then I think that says everything that needs to be said and you are the one that has some homework to do. Others do and they also know how to take advantage of these moves. Just because you have no idea how to take advantage of market moves in this way doesn't prove anything other than you don't have the skills to do it or at best don't want to do it because you have found something you are comfortable with - Fine, you do what you want to do and I'll do what I want to do. The two are _not _mutually exclusive. Stop trying to position yourself as the only one with a trading method. You're not and your inability to accept another method just proves how immature you are (as does your stupid picture posting below - really?).

I've proven my case over and over and over again to you and everyone and have been proving it day after day for years and years since I discovered it was possible. Options have been moving more than enough to make more than enough money since they were invented. If you don't know that then you should stay out of debates you are not experienced enough in to be in. Besides, *it's really hard to take anyone serious who is hundreds of thousands of dollars wrong in their argument*. Bought a battery for your calculator yet?...lol

As it happens I have other things I can and will be doing over the next few weeks. However (and more to the point), I don't trade every day or every week and I'm certainly not going to stop what I'm doing to "prove" a fact that already exists just to keep you happy (least of all you!). I can post pics like the one you just posted all day long (in fact I have a _real _one I took years ago with more monitors than you posted - what does that prove? Nothing. I use two monitors max and can trade with just one if need be (e.g. a laptop), proves nothing (anyone of us can copy pics from google images) and you're wrong, I don't work at a car wash so stop trying to be a smart **** - you're not even any good at that.  

Sky... thanks you for your intelligent and considered post but there's clearly nothing wrong with using indicators (lagging or otherwise) - if it works - or else trend lines would have been abandoned by every trader in the world. What you are saying flies in the face of every TA trader on the planet. I suppose you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong? Welcome to this bizarre debate - you'll fit right in.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ColB said:


> Time to put up or shut up Bill!  Quite simple really.
> 
> I'm tipping we'll need a mod to verify the authenticity of your trades though......OR is it going to be the usual deflection of 'I don't need to prove anything' or tell us to all 'crawl under our rocks again'
> 
> What's it gunna be Bill?




Very clever - not. Any fool can put up a useless/pointless challenge that proves they are a careless trader. Forced trading comps have been proven to be useless pointless and even dangerous. You challenge means nothing to anyone with a clue. It's not that I don't have to prove (though I clearly don't), It's that I've already proven it hundreds (and probably thousands) of times already. If I win all it means is that my style of trading worked during those days and if you win all it means is that your style of trading worked during those days. In both cases it proves that forced trading is dangerous and any comp that aims to prove that is dangerous as well. 

Excellent suggestion about your rocks though. I'm glad you raised it.


----------



## ColB

OneDayWealth said:


> "...I have nothing I need to prove to the likes of you...."
> 
> "...I've proven my case over and over and over again to you and everyone and have been proving it day after day for years and years since I discovered it was possible...."
> 
> "...As it happens I have other things I can and will be doing over the next few weeks. ..."




Well well well, how predictable, couldn't haven written the script better. Just knew you would say you have nothing to prove and not prepared to take on TH because simply you know you couldn't win. 

I am sure the vast majority here are sick of your ramblings, in fact it would make for a good ASF Poll [What about it mods]

I take it you're tidying your sock drawer over the next few weeks.


----------



## lindsayf

this is just like season 1

but still very good indeed.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> You've already proven you make massive mistakes in your calculations and don't have the most basic grasp of the topic. *It's hard to have a reasonable debate with someone who makes hundred thousand dollar mistakes*.



There was no mistake you silly bugger. The mistake is you think controlling 27000 anz shares with $20,000 is wise. You have no idea what position sizing is or risk adjusted returns looks like. As with all snake oilers you quote return on minimum margin. as the old saying goes,

_Minimum margin = minimum brains._




OneDayWealth said:


> (anyone of us can copy pics from google images)



 Yeah I just found another one,


----------



## OneDayWealth

ColB said:


> Well well well, how predictable, couldn't haven written the script better. Just knew you would say you have nothing to prove and not prepared to take on TH because simply you know you couldn't win.
> 
> I am sure the vast majority here are sick of your ramblings, in fact it would make for a good ASF Poll [What about it mods]
> 
> I take it you're tidying your sock drawer over the next few weeks.




Your response and challenge is the most predictable of all. It's so easy for you to sit there and pick your nose and flick bogies at the screen - how ordinary. It's got nothing to do with winning (I've already won). It's got to do with stupid challenges that prove only one thing - how dangerously you can trade by forcing the market to do what you want it to do. What will that prove? Nothing.


----------



## tech/a

OneDayWealth said:


> Your response and challenge is the most predictable of all. It's so easy for you to sit there and pick your nose and flick bogies at the screen - how ordinary. It's got nothing to do with winning (I've already won). It's got to do with stupid challenges that prove only one thing - how dangerously you can trade by forcing the market to do what you want it to do. What will that prove? Nothing.




A trades a trade.
It wins or it loses.
Posted up 100 s
Can't see the problem?


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> There was no mistake you silly bugger. The mistake is you think controlling 27000 anz shares with $20,000 is wise. You have no idea what position sizing is or risk adjusted returns looks like. As with all snake oilers you quote return on minimum margin. as the old saying goes,




Denying it won't make it go away. I know it must be hard to swallow (especially when you're clearly so good at it) when you make such a _massive _mistake in front of all your misguided "fans". I'd be embarrassed as hell as well. Oh well, at least when you **** up you **** up big. And I know that the only way for you to get any respect back is to challenge me to an arm wrestle...lol. Just accept it, you have no clue when it comes to day trading options. There's no shame in that. So you made a three hundred thousand dollar mistake in your calculations in front of everyone you're trying to impress. It happens. The lesson you should learn is not to butt in where you don't belong and not to open your mouth unless you're sure of what you're saying.* In this case you got it massively wrong*. Maybe next time you'll be luckier with your guesses.


----------



## tech/a

OneDayWealth said:


> Denying it won't make it go away. I know it must be hard to swallow (especially when you're clearly so good at it) when you make such a _massive _mistake in front of all your misguided "fans". I'd be embarrassed as hell as well. Oh well, at least when you **** up you **** up big. And I know that the only way for you to get any respect back is to challenge me to an arm wrestle...lol. Just accept it, you have no clue when it comes to day trading options. There's no shame in that. So you made a three hundred thousand dollar mistake in your calculations in front of everyone you're trying to impress. It happens. The lesson you should learn is not to butt in where you don't belong and not to open your mouth unless you're sure of what you're saying.* In this case you got it massively wrong*. Maybe next time you'll be luckier with your guesses.




Ahh got it.
It's personal.

Self assassination always a good look.


----------



## OneDayWealth

tech/a said:


> Ahh got it.
> It's personal.
> 
> Self assassination always a good look.




Lol, where've you been? This whole thread is about a personal attack...on me! You should go back and read some of the insane and extremely personal and vicious attacks made on me before you pull me up.


----------



## tech/a

OneDayWealth said:


> Lol, where've you been? This whole thread is about a personal attack...on me! You should go back and read some of the insane and extremely personal and vicious attacks made on me before you pull me up.




Your supposed to be a professional with a business.
The "rest" are potential clients so to are the invisible who
Watch.
You have everything to loose particularly with social media as it is.

Just google Bill Stacy and you'll get this thread.

Pretty dumb behavior but hey knock yourself out!


----------



## Gringotts Bank

lindsayf said:


> this is just like season 1
> 
> but still very good indeed.




lol, excellent


----------



## OneDayWealth

tech/a said:


> Your supposed to be a professional with a business.
> The "rest" are potential clients so to are the invisible who
> Watch.
> You have everything to loose particularly with social media as it is.
> 
> Just google Bill Stacy and you'll get this thread.
> 
> Pretty dumb behavior but hey knock yourself out!




On the contrary. 

I've never made myself out to be anything other than a bloke with information. I hate the word guru and have always pushed it away when labeled as one. This thread is actually doing me a _huge_ favour - I love it! The more you post the better I look (according to much recent feedback and the last few sales). The worst thing that could happen is for mods to delete this thread so the more you abuse me the better I look and the better it is for me. I have stood firm and answered to every query, attack and silly comment. Keep them coming - please.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> On the contrary.
> 
> I've never made myself out to be anything other than a bloke with information. I hate the word guru and have always pushed it away when labeled as one. This thread is actually doing me a _huge_ favour - I love it! The more you post the better I look (according to much recent feedback and the last few sales). The worst thing that could happen is for mods to delete this thread so the more you abuse me the better I look and the better it is for me. I have stood firm and answered to every query, attack and silly comment. Keep them coming - please.



 LMAO!


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Denying it won't make it go away. I know it must be hard to swallow (especially when you're clearly so good at it) when you make such a _massive _mistake in front of all your misguided "fans". I'd be embarrassed as hell as well. Oh well, at least when you **** up you **** up big. And I know that the only way for you to get any respect back is to challenge me to an arm wrestle...lol. Just accept it, you have no clue when it comes to day trading options. There's no shame in that. So you made a three hundred thousand dollar mistake in your calculations in front of everyone you're trying to impress. It happens. The lesson you should learn is not to butt in where you don't belong and not to open your mouth unless you're sure of what you're saying.* In this case you got it massively wrong*. Maybe next time you'll be luckier with your guesses.



 You joker. Where is the mistake???????????

Minimum margin for 27 options was about 20 g. For the same underling shares it was just over 300g.

Where is the mistake scammer? 

One of your many many mistakes is you thing Minimum margin is all that matters. In that case why not trade the same size with CFDs you will only have to put up 15g. Makes your return look even better.


----------



## ftw129

Trembling Hand said:


> Dude what we are arguing is that its a very poor way to gain exposure to your trade idea. Just look at the ANZ example.
> 
> You have to buy huge positions and gain a fraction of the move. While exposing yourself to outsized cost. Its a dumb way to day trade.
> 
> Yeah? So what?* thats moves on minimum margin*. What are the risk adjusted moves? whats going to stop you getting - 10% -30% for a few days each week and copping your account in half?




Apologies for bringing this up again....

You may be correct and excuse my ignorance....

What do you mean when you say "You have to buy huge positions and gain a fraction of the move. While exposing yourself to outsized cost."

and

"Yeah? So what?* thats moves on minimum margin*. What are the risk adjusted moves? whats going to stop you getting - 10% -30% for a few days each week and copping your account in half?"

I'm not trying to prove myself right or wrong I just genuinely want to know what you mean as it's not making sense to me.

Here is how I trade...

I've learned basic TA skills and like to keep them as simple as possible. I'll buy a stock outright for most of my trades to benefit from an upward move but this will usually take up a fair bit of my capital so I may only own 2-3 stocks at any given time and usually not hold them longer than a few weeks (i'm trading with a 60k bank)..

However, if it's a big blue chip stock and I'm really confident of my trade (and it has options) then I'll trade the options just because I need a much smaller move in the stock to make the same return.

For example.... (and I'm going out on a limb here because I'm in this trade now and the pressure of knowing that others know what trade I'm in may cause me to trade erratically) WPL has had a nice break to the upside on good volume and looks like a double bottom both on the weekly and the day... First point of resistance $40 with a medium term target of $48.

On Thursday 23rd of Feb I bought 22 contracts of the WPL April $37.71 calls @ $1.38 (WPL was trading at around $38). This is the equivalent of owning almost $83,000 worth of stock... Now I'm expecting the stock to reach the $40 mark within the next few trading days... 

I don't want to tie up $83K in one trade so tying up 3k to make the same amount of profit on the move to $40 as I would with $83k is a lot more appealing as I have the rest of that money tied up in other stocks/trades.

When I look at this trade now (in hindsight) it's not one I'm actually comfortable risking 3k on (even though I planned to exit if the option dropped to 1.5K) as the resistance coming up at $40 is only $2.14 away but by my estimates that's enough to make the value of the option rise by about 50%????

In any case, the profit to be made for a rise to $40 is about the same on 3K as it is with 83K is it not?

I'm not a professional, I'm not saying I'm right and I'm open to criticism. This is what I've gathered and I'm risking profit here maybe to learn the hard way? 

9/10 of my trades are long stock trades (not options). I only use the options after a good run and I have some money to lose because I know that as the stock turns in the other direction the option loses value just as fast. I also use options when I'm bearish on a stock as Commsec do not allow short trades so in this case I'll buy puts. I made a 30% return on NCM in 2 days (on the downside) and the stock only dropped like 90 cents.

I like Options but they aren't for the faint hearted and you have to have the guts to trust your analysis but by the sounds of it there's a better way to trade these little moves with less risk and more return?

(I feel as though I just took a step out into a firing range! LOL)


----------



## IFocus

lindsayf said:


> this is just like season 1
> 
> but still very good indeed.






Gringotts Bank said:


> lol, excellent




Must admit missed season 1 but have seen the story line before LOL


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Where is the mistake???????????




https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13721&p=686749&viewfull=1#post686749 

LMAO $300grand - pretty embarrassing eh? Especially when you were running so hard trying to "catch me out" you stumbled and fell splat right into your own steaming pile of... it was classic. I even got emails and one sms on it! People were laughing sooo hard. Sorry, I shouldn't rub it in _quite_ so hard but it did blow a fairly large hole in your credibility.  

That's ok man, you can't win them all. I guess the rage of your own jealousy got the better of you. I can imagine having your bubble burst in public when you had your chest all puffed up like that would have been a pretty big blow to your ego. 300 grand is a pretty big "whoops". 

That's cool, I forgive you. It can be hard to think clearly and simply sometimes when you're so full of rage. Just go back to basics (maybe a cup of tea and a good lie down will help?) and you'll get it eventually I'm sure.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ftw129 said:


> ...I don't want to tie up $83K in one trade so tying up 3k to make the same amount of profit on the move to $40 as I would with $83k is a lot more appealing...




You got it. 3k risk instead of $83k risk is a smarter and more obvious trade though I never advise holding options overnight which is another issue all together.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> ...why not trade the same size with CFDs...




Why? Because CFDs involve massive borrowing and (as I've said many times) I _hate_ borrowing to trade. I like to use straight cash, buy and sell. Easy to understand, easy to do, great profit and crazy cheap (compared to buying the stock).


----------



## ftw129

OneDayWealth said:


> though I never advise holding options overnight which is another issue all together.




Bill,

I hate holding Options for as long as I do but I work full time and cannot screen watch all day... In saying that, I'm not taking anybody's side here but I do see how what you are saying that you do is pretty simple (and can easily be achieved) it's just that the people on here are looking for some cold, hard evidence that you can do it on a consistent basis and even if you can, whether or not your students have been doing so as well?

REALLY, what I see that is in question here is not what you do (as it's pretty basic to see that what you do is clearly plausible) BUT whether or not it's possible to "package" that and sell it on so that anyone can do it if they follow your model/s?

I'm not sure how that can be proven here?


----------



## TeleSonic

Buying options is utilizing leverage, margin doesn't come into it. It's a valid and common strategy used by short term speculators. Sure, an option position has different profit and loss characteristics to the physical underlying; that's how they were designed as a hedging vehicle. It's also why they are attractive to short term traders willing to accept the added risk that comes with the potential for leveraged profits. Saying its a dumb way to trade is just ignorant. My most profitable trades have been with bought options, risking a know maximum dollar amount for over 500% return on many occasions. Sure beats a 1:2 R/R....

What worries me about Bill's approach is the ability to contain loses to predefined % levels. My experience is with index and currency options, but id imagine ASX equity options have wider spreads and gap more. Maybe ATM it isn't an issue? What I can say though is that you need to have reflex's like a cat and it can be bloody stressful when things don't go to plan.  You better love screen time and you better be able to execute without second guessing. Certainly  not something I'd want to teach anyone but the most risk tolerant of experienced traders.


----------



## TeleSonic

OneDayWealth said:


> You got it. 3k risk instead of $83k risk is a smarter and more obvious trade though I never advise holding options overnight which is another issue all together.




Be fair though Bill. That $3k option position has a real possibility of being worth $500 or nothing very quickly if things turn south. It would be worth $0 a long time before the $83k stock position traded at $80k. Very different risk characteristics and that's the flip side to getting exposure to movements in the underlying cheaply.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ftw129 said:


> Bill,
> 
> I hate holding Options for as long as I do but I work full time and cannot screen watch all day... In saying that, I'm not taking anybody's side here but I do see how what you are saying that you do is pretty simple (and can easily be achieved) it's just that the people on here are looking for some cold, hard evidence that you can do it on a consistent basis and even if you can, whether or not your students have been doing so as well?
> 
> REALLY, what I see that is in question here is not what you do (as it's pretty basic to see that what you do is clearly plausible) BUT whether or not it's possible to "package" that and sell it on so that anyone can do it if they follow your model/s?
> 
> I'm not sure how that can be proven here?




Fair enough but after doing it for years it's a bit rich for me to _have _to explain it to anyone. Especially to these guys who are so rude and disrespectful and even more when they refuse to see the facts even after I've explained them many times. Not sure what to say, I explain what I do and more importantly exactly how I do it, what I look out for and the risks and signals...etc. Some do very well, some don't find they have the ticker for it and others I never hear from again. 

Having said that i do call some from time to time and ask how they are going and they say "fine" we do a trade every now and then and yet others keep it in their tool bag and use it when they feel like it. I've done heaps of courses and I certainly don;t use them all exactly as I was taught. I also explain that my course is mostly about "how" to do it because how I do it is what makes it possible as many people have no idea how to day trade options. You have to lay things out in a specific way and look out for certain things and of course have a fast sheet to tell you where you are, not necessarily "when" to do it for which I refer them to other TA courses but help as much as I can with a couple of safe rules for newbies and regular (top 10) patterns for experienced traders. 

The traders who are most successful at day trading options (my way) are those who are really good at TA. They make MUCH more than 5-10% use FAR less than 20k and trade easier and more confidently. Newbies are advised to go and study candlesticks, breakout patterns...etc all of which apply nicely to this style of high speed trading. I don't claim to be all things to all people. I am just "most" pieces of the puzzle and I make that very clear before I take a cent off anyone. 



TeleSonic said:


> ...What worries me about Bill's approach is the ability to contain loses to predefined % levels. ...What I can say though is that you need to have reflex's like a cat and it can be bloody stressful when things don't go to plan. You better love screen time and you better be able to execute without second guessing. Certainly  not something I'd want to teach anyone but the most risk tolerant of experienced traders.




I understand but that's a common misconception (that you're staring at a screen all day). I rarely sit there "all day" and "staring at a screen" is no different to doing IM or any other computer based job. The only time you really have to sit up is when you're on a trade and as long as the stock stays above my MA I stay in. As soon as I get three candles against or it drops (or pops) a candle below (or above) my simple MA I hop out. People are often surprised at how easy (and simple) it is. Of course there's a lot of TA and experience that got me here but it can be taught to another option trader in just a few hours actually - done it heaps of times. 

It's only stressful when you don't have the correct layouts and calculators (I made my own and haven't changed them for years). The screen time is minimal, some trades only last a few minutes. Sometimes I just sit down, see something "going off" hop on, hop off when I make enough or things looks shaky then get on with the rest of my day. I compare it to working in a factory and prefer to sit calmly and casually in my office at my convenience (never before 11am) instead of grinding my way to a low paid crappy dead end job. 

As for whether it's teachable, I guess you'll have to ask the people who bought my course. I've had only a few refund requests from the hundreds I've sold (most of those didn't even try and just changed their minds) but from the feedback I've received over the years I'm guessing I'm a pretty good teacher and have had comments saying as much. It's actually quite easy to teach and get, the problem is if you have the nerve for it. Most of my members have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the market anyway and see this as a way to "play with the fast side". Not so strangely, many make more doing this than they make with their massive portfolios - many of which are smaller than when they started.


----------



## OneDayWealth

TeleSonic said:


> Be fair though Bill. That $3k option position has a real possibility of being worth $500 or nothing very quickly if things turn south. It would be worth $0 a long time before the $83k stock position traded at $80k. Very different risk characteristics and that's the flip side to getting exposure to movements in the underlying cheaply.




True, but I hold for very short moves/times only and besides, how many people have $80 grand to throw around? I'm all about escaping the rat race as soon as possible with as little risk as possile plus I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.


----------



## ftw129

OneDayWealth said:


> True, but I hold for very short moves/times only. I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.




LOL yeah well I don't know about tears and despair... Like I said I usually play options only with profits and out of the 40 or more bought options trades that I've ever made I've never actually lost 100%...


----------



## OneDayWealth

ftw129 said:


> LOL yeah well I don't know about tears and despair... Like I said I usually play options only with profits and out of the 40 or more bought options trades that I've ever made I've never actually lost 100%...




Good to hear. I wish I'd heard it more often.


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> True, but I hold for very short moves/times only and besides, how many people have $80 grand to throw around? I'm all about escaping the rat race as soon as possible with as little risk as possile plus I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.




Are you then agreeing that that playing with $3k of options has very similar risk characteristics with trading with $80k of stock? (ie a 4% move in the underlying will roughly have the same effect on stock and option position?)


----------



## nulla nulla

OneDayWealth said:


> True, but I hold for very short moves/times only and besides, how many people have $80 grand to throw around? I'm all about escaping the rat race as soon as possible with as little risk as possile plus I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.




If your customers are making their guaranteed $2,000 per week trading off a base of $20,000 they would very soon have a capital base in excess of $80,000 particularly if they were turning their profits back into subsequent "successful" trades.

In my opinion, the problems with trading theories promoted/spammed on forums are basically as follows:
1. If it sounds too good to be true, it generally is;
2. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach; and
3. The market is full of "successful" traders making more out of "$5,000 courses" and news letters than they ever did trading.

If your clients, having googled your name and read the posts on this thread, think your posts on this thread enhance your credibility and then still want to sign on for your courses, then they deserve everything they get. Or more likely what they don't get.


----------



## Trembling Hand

TeleSonic said:


> Buying options is utilizing leverage, margin doesn't come into it. It's a valid and common strategy used by short term speculators. Sure, an option position has different profit and loss characteristics to the physical underlying; that's how they were designed as a hedging vehicle. It's also why they are attractive to short term traders willing to accept the added risk that comes with the potential for leveraged profits. Saying its a dumb way to trade is just ignorant. My most profitable trades have been with bought options, risking a know maximum dollar amount for over 500% return on many occasions. Sure beats a 1:2 R/R....
> 
> What worries me about Bill's approach is the ability to contain loses to predefined % levels. My experience is with index and currency options, but id imagine ASX equity options have wider spreads and gap more. Maybe ATM it isn't an issue? What I can say though is that you need to have reflex's like a cat and it can be bloody stressful when things don't go to plan.  You better love screen time and you better be able to execute without second guessing. Certainly  not something I'd want to teach anyone but the most risk tolerant of experienced traders.



It is a dumb way to *daytrade* ASX stocks, with small daily ranges, high brokerage, large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.

Not to mention the utter utter BS of having a $5,000 account and taking position sizes that risk 10-20 % or more of capital on each trade.


----------



## wayneL

Trembling Hand said:


> It is a dumb way to *daytrade* ASX stocks, with small daily ranges, high brokerage, large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.
> 
> Not to mention the utter utter BS of having a $5,000 account and taking position sizes that risk 10-20 % or more of capital on each trade.




Bang on TH. 


Folks this man is the real deal in daytrader land.

I will be adding to this when i  get back to my cave.


----------



## prawn_86

wayneL said:


> Bang on TH.
> 
> Folks this man is the real deal in daytrader land.
> 
> I will be adding to this when i  get back to my cave.




Yes to add to this check out one of TH's old threads *where he documented every trade*, on an instrument that he doesnt use full time.

Probably the best thread a potential newbie trader could read to show what is possible, but more importantly the approach, strategising, and discipline you need to have:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12683

I (and other mods) have verified this statistics as a moderator and have seen the account logs etc for anyone who wants to question that


----------



## tech/a

Yeh he is.

But as you'll see in the thread those who don't get it want to be lead by the trembling hand.

If you take the time to look at what's going on in his scatter charts and the comment " wax on wax off"
Youll find the answer.


----------



## OneDayWealth

nulla nulla said:


> If your customers are making their guaranteed $2,000 per week trading off a base of $20,000 they would very soon have a capital base in excess of $80,000 particularly if they were turning their profits back into subsequent "successful" trades.
> 
> In my opinion, the problems with trading theories promoted/spammed on forums are basically as follows:
> 1. If it sounds too good to be true, it generally is;
> 2. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach; and
> 3. The market is full of "successful" traders making more out of "$5,000 courses" and news letters than they ever did trading.
> 
> If your clients, having googled your name and read the posts on this thread, think your posts on this thread enhance your credibility and then still want to sign on for your courses, then they deserve everything they get. Or more likely what they don't get.




Fool, is that the best post you can make? Lol

Perhaps you might want to actually read the responses properly before commenting and looking sillier than you are. Read back about the guarantee. If you're English is at a grade 3 level you will see that I made no $2,000 a week guarantee. That was an entirely different website and idea - nothing to do with the stock market or day trading options AT ALL...lol

Who the **** are you calling a spammer? I didn't start this thread. I was attacked by lies and am here defending myself from defamation.  I expect you would just run away and hide?...lol 

But let's take your regurgitated clichÃ©s one by one because they are each good for a sorry laugh. 

*1)* It's not too good if it IS true? Just because you've never heard of it and want to follow the stone throwing crowd does that make something untrue? You clearly (also) have no idea what you;re talking about. Go and google more old clichÃ©s and let's see what other rubbish you can bring back and "contribute with. 

*2)* There are those who CAN and DO. There are millions and millions of examples of this. Anyone with even two brain cells will tell you this. Why did you even say such a stupid thing? It only made you look dumber than you appear to be. 

*3)* I make money trading, I make money helping people understand (step by step - not like most other courses). Are you a communist as well? Do you have something against business or do you just hate people being educated and learning something new? 

Actually, many people have sent me emails and sms of support. If I were to repeat what they all thought of you no hopers my posts would be full of stars. What you don't seem to be capable of realising is that when someone is defamed unfairly and they stand up and fight, round after round after round and still stand their ground and fight it looks good. If you can't understand that then you are even more misinformed, uneducated and dumber than it appears (from your posts) that you are. 

The more you attack me with your clichÃ©s and $300,000 mistakes the better I (or anyone for that matter) look. You are doing more for me in advertising than I could have ever wished for.  Please keep it up but for your own sake, let me give you this little piece of advice, know what you;re talking about before you post. Especially if you are planting yourself in the weed patch as an expert. Make sure (for example) that you know how to use a calculator...lol



Trembling Hand said:


> It is a dumb way to *daytrade* ASX stocks, with small daily ranges, high brokerage, large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.
> 
> Not to mention the utter utter BS of having a $5,000 account and taking position sizes that risk 10-20 % or more of capital on each trade.




Again you are not listening. I have never traded ASX stocks. This is a discussion about OPTIONS!...lol Can't even get the instrument right...lol And you should read back on my reply to position sizing. I don't advise anyone to trade their entire portfolio or cash reserves on this method and no matter how many times you want to try to make people think I do (to make your arguments appear valid I expect - weak as...) the worse you look. You can try to twist my words any way you like. From the emails I'm receiving about your posts (in particular) you have a lot to learn - perhaps more about listening than day trading options. You're the stock market equivalent to a Luddite. If it's new you want to destroy it. How weak is that. 



wayneL said:


> Bang on TH.
> 
> 
> Folks this man is the real deal in daytrader land.
> 
> I will be adding to this when i  get back to my cave.




Mr Ker, I have never once attacked what trembling hand has done or does - not once. If he makes money day trading stocks then great! More power to him, I wish him luck and great fortune. But just because he does his thing and doesn't understand my thing and wants to cross his arms, puff his chest and look away doesn't make him the real thing at all. It makes him a stroppy child that people are getting more and more sick of listening to. 

The fact is I have been doing this for over 7 years and teaching it for over 4 years. I have thousands of hours of experience. I have developed my own layouts and my own tools for making the right decisions at the right time at the right speed and there is NOTHING you can do or say to erase that FACT. Your hysterical arguments are bolstering my position and adding to my google strength. *Stick to what you know and stop attacking new things just because they are new to you and you don't understand them.*


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> Yes to add to this check out one of TH's old threads *where he documented every trade*, on an instrument that he doesnt use full time.
> 
> I (and other mods) have verified this statistics as a moderator and have seen the account logs etc for anyone who wants to question that




Great! But irrelevant. Not once in any post I have made have I EVER said he doesn't know how to do what *he* does. But to come on here and attack me for what I do (not just theorise about - but actually DO - and have done for many many years) only shows how massively threatened by me (or probably more accurately something new) he feels. Good luck to him! That however does NOT give him the right to throw stones and rocks at me in an obvious attempt to bolster his own method and credibility just because he doesn't understand how it's possible for anyone to do something other than what HE does. God forbid anything new comes along. 

Wow...threatened much!...lol


----------



## prawn_86

LOL at people who think when trading a derivative you have no exposure to the underlying.

*If you are trading stock options, you have exposure to the underlying stock*. End of story.


----------



## ftw129

prawn_86 said:


> LOL at people who think when trading a derivative you have no exposure to the underlying.
> 
> *If you are trading stock options, you have exposure to the underlying stock*. End of story.




Hi Prawn,

I'm probably one of the people that you're referring to so correct me if I'm wrong just in case there's something I don't understand.

When I buy an Option I get that it _derives_ it's price from the underlying stock (that's obvious so I'm sure you're not trying to argue that point across here). Ultimately though what happens to that option by the expiry date is up to me, whether the underlying stock goes to $0 or $1000. If I choose to not do anything with that Option, then it expires worthless and I lose what I paid for it. I never intend to exercise my Options.

As far as I'm aware, I have no further exposure.

Am I missing something?


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> LOL at people who think when trading a derivative you have no exposure to the underlying.
> 
> *If you are trading stock options, you have exposure to the underlying stock*. End of story.




lol. When I buy a derivative I buy a derivative. I don't buy the underlying stock. Sure (as anyone who has even flicked through the ASX options booklet knows) the option will get it's move from what the underlying stock does but how is that even remotely relevant to my purchase? Are you saying that if I buy a call for $5,000 I am suddenly exposed to hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock? lol, you might want to go back and read the intro to options book dude. 

If I buy something for 80c and it moves to 100c in one day and I sell it for a 20c I have made a profit of 20c on an 80c investment. That is ALL I care about. 

lol to anyone who doesn't understand *that*. I have NO exposure to anything other than the option I bought. My maximum loss is the investment I made in the option. Nothing at all to do with how much the stock is worth - AT ALL!! The only interest I have in the stock is to what it move and make my plays according to that move but I always trade JUST THE OPTION. I'm not making any promises to the market when I _*BUY*_ an option. Wow, is that really _so_ difficult to understand? Maybe a basic course in options is what some of you need to do before replying here again. That and get new batteries for your calculator...lol  

To give you a little benefit of the doubt; I think maybe you're getting all confused. Slow down, take a deep breath and read a little more on how options work and you might understand what _buying_ an option exposes you to. It's...umm, the option. Nothing else.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ftw129 said:


> Hi Prawn,
> 
> I'm probably one of the people that you're referring to so correct me if I'm wrong just in case there's something I don't understand.
> 
> When I buy an Option I get that it _derives_ it's price from the underlying stock (that's obvious so I'm sure you're not trying to argue that point across here). Ultimately though what happens to that option by the expiry date is up to me, whether the underlying stock goes to $0 or $1000. If I choose to not do anything with that Option, then it expires worthless and I lose what I paid for it. I never intend to exercise my Options.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, I have no further exposure.
> 
> Am I missing something?




Nope.


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> lol. When I buy a derivative I buy a derivative. I don't buy the underlying stock. Sure (as anyone who has even flicked through the ASX options booklet knows) the option will get it's move from what the underlying stock does but how is that even remotely relevant to my purchase? Are you saying that if I buy a call for $5,000 I am suddenly exposed to hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock? lol, you might want to go back and read the intro to options book dude.
> 
> If I buy something for 80c and it moves to 100c in one day and I sell it for a 20c I have made a profit of 20c on an 80c investment. That is ALL I care about.
> 
> lol to anyone who doesn't understand *that*. I have NO exposure to anything other than the option I bought. My maximum loss is the investment I made in the option. Nothing at all to do with how much the stock is worth - AT ALL!! The only interest I have in the stock is to what it move and make my plays according to that move but I always trade JUST THE OPTION. I'm not making any promises to the market when I _*BUY*_ an option. Wow, is that really _so_ difficult to understand? Maybe a basic course in options is what some of you need to do before replying here again. That and get new batteries for your calculator...lol
> 
> To give you a little benefit of the doubt; I think maybe you're getting all confused. Slow down, take a deep breath and read a little more on how options work and you might understand what _buying_ an option exposes you to. It's...umm, the option. Nothing else.




Gee, being so condescending won't do you any favours, though the irony is most delicious. Care to answer my point on the top of this page?


----------



## OneDayWealth

skyQuake said:


> Are you then agreeing that that playing with $3k of options has very similar risk characteristics with trading with $80k of stock? (ie a 4% move in the underlying will roughly have the same effect on stock and option position?)




Nope, a 4% move in the underlying would obviously have a _far_ greater effect on the option price. If I bought an option and the stock moved 4% it would have a massive effect on the value of the option. If it went my way I would be having an exceptional day! If it went against me I would have exited long ago. 

By the way anyone "playing" with options should not. Trading options is a very serious and fast business - there is no "playing" in what I do. Anyone who just wants to "play" will soon lose all their money. It's the very first thing I say to people. This is not a method for ninnies or scaredy cats.


----------



## OneDayWealth

skyQuake said:


> Gee, being so condescending won't do you any favours, though the irony is most delicious. Care to answer my point on the top of this page?




Oh, my dear, the gloves came off well before I entered this assassination thread. 

See my answer above regarding your top of the page question.


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> Nope, a 4% move in the underlying would obviously have a _far_ greater effect on the option price. If I bought an option and the stock moved 4% it would have a massive effect on the value of the option. If it went my way I would be having an exceptional day! If it went against me I would have exited long ago.




%wise obviously large difference, but in terms of absolute P/L both positions would make/lose the same amount. Roughly $3k. Agree?

How can you exit _long ago_ when 2~3% gaps are common enough even on the large cap stuff, and you can't get out in the first hr due to marketmaker shenanigans.


----------



## OneDayWealth

skyQuake said:


> %wise obviously large difference, but in terms of absolute P/L both positions would make/lose the same amount. Roughly $3k. Agree?
> 
> How can you exit _long ago_ when 2~3% gaps are common enough even on the large cap stuff, and you can't get out in the first hr due to marketmaker shenanigans.




True, which is why I day trade, not overnight trade. Most of the people who lose too much on options leave them overnight. I use 10 minute candles which give me plenty of warning (as long as I obey them).


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> True, which is why I day trade, not overnight trade. Most of the people who lose too much on options leave them overnight. I use 10 minute candles which give me plenty of warning (as long as I obey them).




Those two positions would then be same as a CFD position at 5% margin = $4k (which is leveraged btw)
If you decided to throw in a guarantee stop loss (costing 0.5% more) the cfd position is pretty much identical to the oppies position. And it is very leveraged.

The point that everyone is trying to make is that the oppies trade may not look leveraged but it _is_ leveraged by virtue of  being a derivative. Sure you may have only $3k exposure but that is essentially the same as having an $80k exposure with a 4% stop.

And if you have only $5k to swing around, its probably best not to take on an $80k notional position. Risk of Ruin just around the corner.


----------



## TeleSonic

Trembling Hand said:


> ....large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.




This is what worries me most about this strategy. Options are in my opinion the most difficult instrument to achieve modelled outcomes with (hedging aside). For all the theory and calculations that one can perform prior to a trade, once you're live it means little. Trying to keep loses at 10% to make maybe 20 - 30% on your outlay is too tight IMO. 

With ASIC tightening the guidelines regarding complex financial products and how they can be advertised to retail investors, what suitability requirements has your licensee put in place for those buying your course?


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Mr Ker



Bill

Although there is already abundant evidence of your petulant immaturity and a total lack of professionalism through you consistent name calling, thank you once again for highlighting the same.



> The fact is I have been doing this for over 7 years and teaching it for over 4 years. I have thousands of hours of experience. I have developed my own layouts and my own tools for making the right decisions at the right time at the right speed and there is NOTHING you can do or say to erase that FACT. Your hysterical arguments are bolstering my position and adding to my google strength. *Stick to what you know and stop attacking new things just because they are new to you and you don't understand them.*




Oh my! ROTFLMAO!

Thanks for the laugh. Anytime you want to compare options knowledge and experience, I'm up for it... and I'd back myself London to a brick. 

Anytime mate!


----------



## wayneL

OK let's get down to brass tacks and the basis of my criticism.

We can define our risks by a set of pricing nuances known as the Greeks.

Lets assume for a moment that Bill's system has a positive expectancy (even though he has offered no evidence that this is in fact so).

The first and most important Greek in the daytrading context is Delta. No matter what instrument is being employed, the first decision one must come to is the the number of deltas appropriate for the account size. This will depend on how much room is allowed for the trade to develop... AKA the stop loss and its relationship to maximum accepted risk.

Too many deltas for the account size and/or method (IOW too high a maximum risk) and there is a high risk of ruin, even with a positive expectancy system.

Let's suppose we have decided on 1000 deltas of exposure, to pick a nice round random number.

We can achieve that 1000 deltas by trading 1000 of the underlying, or 1000 CFDs.

If we want to use options, we need to multiply the total delta exposure desired, by the individual delta f the option. For instance if we are using ATM calls with a delta of 0.5, we would need 20 contracts.  ie 0.5 delta x 100 contract size x 20 contracts = 1000 deltas.

This brings me right to contest risk (bid/ask spread + commish). I don't know the commission on ASX stocks and options these days, because I trade US options, but I'm guessing the commish on 20 contracts is higher than 1000 stock/CFDs (let's leave futs out of it for the moment). 

The spread component of contest risk of the stock/CFD is one or two cents x 1000 = 1000c - 2000c... $10 or $20.

The functional spread component of contest risk of the option is going to be five or eight cents X 100 x 20 = 10,000 - 16,000 cents... $100 to $160.

Next Greek is Theta. This may or not be a factor in a day trade, but depending on days to expiry and time of day, it could be a few cents. Every cent theta in this example costs you $0.01 x 100 x 20 = $20.

The +ve Gamma will generally theoretically work in the options favour, but probably will not be a factor with the small intraday moves being traded.

Vega, if a factor, could go either way, but not likely a big factor.

These factors add up to the "cost" of using options being in the order of many magnitudes higher than the underlying or CFDs.

Bill likes to highlight the juicy wins, which none of us have any doubt occur from time to time. But all experienced daytraders know that the size of wins is totally irrelevant. What matters is what filters down to the bottom line. The sum of wins. minus the sum of losses.

AKA EXPECTANCY... all that contest risk works directly against expectancy and will change a notionally positive expectancy system into a negative and loss making expectancy.

More later


----------



## mazzatelli

You actually make money knowing all that Black Scholes etc., Greek sh*t?? :


----------



## Des P

Hi all very interesting thread,It has kept me amused all weekend
i finally had some time to relax
i personally have only started trading in the past 12 months and i am enjoying doing the fundamentals and trying to learn Tech annalist, it all takes time.
But my story is i was working constructing a mine in Tanzania and a work mate of mine had just got back from Aus  telling me about investing in options and at the time  (2002) he had told me he he had done this course on option's and it was the way to go 
He explained that you can make more money than trading normal shares with  using all your cash for higher rewards(please give me some space here i dont understand option,s) i was skeptical at first and read all his Paraphernalia he was given.It looked interesting then i asked have you tried this, he said yes he has money invested now I then told him that do you realize that you must be in front of a computer or in contact with a broker 24/7.He said no. As it was his So called instructors,(i wont say the name it might upset Some Posters)Had not told him that he must have access at all times.We were in East Africa accesses was  a $1 per minute sat phone call (year2002) needless to say the course he took was a couple of thousand dollars down the drain and what he lost i don't know. But hard it was hard to see a grown man cry he was single worked hard all his life and ended up broke all because of options and the people who said it was a good thing. Thankfully i did not fall for it


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> lol. When I buy a derivative I buy a derivative. I don't buy the underlying stock. Sure (as anyone who has even flicked through the ASX options booklet knows) the option will get it's move from what the underlying stock does but how is that even remotely relevant to my purchase? Are you saying that if I buy a call for $5,000 I am suddenly exposed to hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock? lol, you might want to go back and read the intro to options book dude.
> 
> If I buy something for 80c and it moves to 100c in one day and I sell it for a 20c I have made a profit of 20c on an 80c investment. That is ALL I care about.
> 
> lol to anyone who doesn't understand *that*. I have NO exposure to anything other than the option I bought. My maximum loss is the investment I made in the option. Nothing at all to do with how much the stock is worth - AT ALL!! The only interest I have in the stock is to what it move and make my plays according to that move but I always trade JUST THE OPTION. I'm not making any promises to the market when I _*BUY*_ an option. Wow, is that really _so_ difficult to understand? Maybe a basic course in options is what some of you need to do before replying here again. That and get new batteries for your calculator...lol
> 
> To give you a little benefit of the doubt; I think maybe you're getting all confused. Slow down, take a deep breath and read a little more on how options work and you might understand what _buying_ an option exposes you to. It's...umm, the option. Nothing else.




Why do you watch the chart of the underlying then?

Though your maximum exposure is the cost of the option, the way you trade, your exposure is a massive (perhaps 100%) proportion of your capital. 

As you point out, if it moves against you to some defined point, you exit. Likewise with CFDs or stocks. So talk of $3000 risk opposed to 80 odd thousand or whatever it was is a nonsense in the the daytrading context.

Risk is defined by total delta position plus contest risk.

That additional contest risk means that your option position has to move several points, much more than a stock/cfd position, just to break even.


----------



## ftw129

Just booked a nice profit this morning on NCM April Puts which I bought near close on Friday... (Copy and pasted Commsec trade notification) 

"Notification that we have BOUGHT for you 25 contracts in NEWCREST MINING AP12P3450 on Account 867040 .

Transaction Details:
Date                          : 24 Feb 2012
Total Contracts               : 25
Price                         : 1.320
Order Value                   : AUD 3300.00
Brokerage and Costs incl GST  : 38.53
Net Proceeds                  : 3338.53
Total GST                     : 3.51
Settlement date               : 27 Feb 2012"

...........................................................................................................

Notification that we have SOLD for you 25 contracts in NEWCREST MINING AP12P3450 on Account 867040 .

Transaction Details:
Date                          : 27 Feb 2012
Total Contracts               : 25
Price                         : 1.790
Order Value                   : AUD 4475.00
Brokerage and Costs incl GST  : 38.53
Net Proceeds                  : 4436.47
Total GST                     : 3.51
Settlement date               : 28 Feb 2012


$1100 profit after $75 brokerage.

I would have had to have 87K to achieve the same profit had I short the actual stock.

Not bad for just a 90c drop in the stock price. I was in this trade for less then half an hour of market time but yes I held the Options over the weekend.


----------



## Trembling Hand

ftw129 said:


> $1100 profit after $75 brokerage.
> 
> I would have had to have 87K to achieve the same profit had I short the actual stock.




But how much do you have in your account? What percentage did you risk on this trade.

And if a 90C drop was your target what the hell was your stop?? 45 cents? 1.1% against you? Looking at this trade if that was your target 2.5% overnight move in the stock there wouldn't be a long term trader on this site that thinks that trade was anything other than a sh!te trade. 

Sorry


----------



## OneDayWealth

ftw129 said:


> Just booked a nice profit this morning on NCM April Puts...




Nice. Congratulations. All trades are risky. Some people just want to wait around until a 100% for sure trade comes along (they'll be waiting - and talking) for a long time. 

Personally (no reflection on you of course) I'm not a huge fan of overnight trades but in this case you pulled it off (despite what they say). Good work.


----------



## ftw129

Trembling Hand said:


> But how much do you have in your account? What percentage did you risk on this trade.
> 
> And if a 90C drop was your target what the hell was your stop?? 45 cents? 1.1% against you? Looking at this trade if that was your target 2.5% overnight move in the stock there wouldn't be a long term trader on this site that thinks that trade was anything other than a sh!te trade.
> 
> Sorry




Trembling Hand I don't disagree after reading the way you trade in another thread.

I'm trading with 90k. 30 is sitting in cash (atm) 30k I hold stocks and 30 is sitting there doing nothing waiting for opportunities.

I took a punt on this trade with profits and my stop would've been no more that 50% of my option price. I KNOW this is a risky way to trade but I actually only use Options occasionally with found money when I see a compelling technical entry and I want to take a punt.

I own a few profitable stocks atm so I'm just feeling cocky. 

I'd love to be able to do what you do though (I work full time)


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill
> 
> Although there is already abundant evidence of your petulant immaturity and a total lack of professionalism through you consistent name calling, thank you once again for highlighting the same...




I think if you go back and count all the times you've abused and defamed me you'll see that you shouldn't be telling others how to behave. YOU took the gloves off and delivered quite a few gutless sucker punches from your nameless avatar. So who's the pot (head) calling the kettle black. You worry about your own behaviour and stop pretending to be Mr White when we all know that's far from the real you.

*By the way, what is your real name?* Why is is that all these assasins never want to sign their name to any of their posts? I suppose it's easy to throw mud and rocks at strangers from behind a wall of anonimity. How about from now on your put up your real name so we all know who you are? *You want to stand there are attack me with weak arguments because I don't do exactly what you only theorise about but you won't sign your real name* you're no better than a sucker punch bar room brawler who runs away after slamming a bar stool into the back of someone's head.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Lets assume for a moment that Bill's system has a positive expectancy (even though he has offered no evidence that this is in fact so).




Whoa, whoa, whoa! Let's deal with some facts...I've posted dozens if not hundreds of trades and have proven with real statements in front of hundreds of people LIVE including losses (which are a normal part of trading for every REAL trader) so that's bull right there...but let's see what else you can chunder out to try to save your diminishing reputation...


----------



## skyQuake

ftw129 said:


> $1100 profit after $75 brokerage.
> 
> I would have had to have 87K to achieve the same profit had I short the actual stock.
> 
> Not bad for just a 90c drop in the stock price. I was in this trade for less then half an hour of market time but yes I held the Options over the weekend.




Actually you would only have needed to short only $42k of stock to make $1100
with any cfd provider @10% margin is only 4.2k capital and you'll have DMA access and better spreads.
Plus the fact that you'll actually earn interest on the short position over the wkend.


----------



## Trembling Hand

ftw129 said:


> I took a punt on this trade with profits and my stop would've been no more that 50% of my option price. I KNOW this is a risky way to trade but I actually only use Options occasionally with found money when I see a compelling technical entry and I want to take a punt.




By the way if you did short the stock you only need 50% margin and would of made just over double the profit with less cost. But then again had you shorted directly 1/2 the position size and therefore reduced your risk you would of risked less, needed only 20 odd g's in margin and made the same profit.

All that ignores that it had a poor R:R

[EDIT] Oh or see SkyQuakes example of CFDs


----------



## OneDayWealth

Mr Wayne, posting slabs of theory proves nothing against me. You can't erase history just because it doesn't suit your theory. I've been doing this for years and years. You know some theory - big deal. I know some theory as well. Do you know everything? No. Do I know everything? No. What you just posted proves nothing. *You don't need to be a bio-chemist to buy and sell apples.* You (and people like you) like to impress (mostly yourselves) with all the theory in the world - sometimes down a molecular level. Who cares?

Sky - sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on CFDs being better than holding a cash option, CFDs involve MASSIVE amounts of borrowing. It's scandelous how many providors forget to mention that to new traders (seen it happen too many times). If things go wrong (like the stop doesn't hold - which I've seen happen) you are left with a MASSIVE debtr to your broker who wants it immediately. You (and all who suggest CFD are "better" than options) are comparing apples to acid and advocating massive debt and borrowing. Not real smart. Some of us don't want to borrow massive amounts of money. Some prefer trading just with the cash they have and can afford to lose. Smarter - in many ways.


----------



## ftw129

skyQuake said:


> Actually you would only have needed to short only $42k of stock to make $1100
> with any cfd provider @10% margin is only 4.2k capital and you'll have DMA access and better spreads.
> Plus the fact that you'll actually earn interest on the short position over the wkend.





Thanks SkyQuake...

I must admit I only know the basics about CFD's and have been meaning to look into them but I've heard some pretty scary stories that made me feel uncomfortable.

I don't use Options as my main strategy but If I could use CFD's to short (and earn interest) than that would be a bonus!

Thanks for the tip.


----------



## wayneL

Bill

all Ive done is point out the flaws in using options for daytrading and voice my disapproval that you teach others a suboptimal method. these things you can not deny so you bluster and name call.

BTW my name is wayne lawrence and i live in hawkes bay nz.

any other questions?


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Mr Wayne, posting slabs of theory proves nothing against me. You can't erase history just because it doesn't suit your theory. I've been doing this for years and years. You know some theory - big deal. I know some theory as well. Do you know everything? No. Do I know everything? No. What you just posted proves nothing. *You don't need to be a bio-chemist to buy and sell apples.* You (and people like you) like to impress (mostly yourselves) with all the theory in the world - sometimes down a molecular level. Who cares?
> 
> Sky - sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on CFDs being better than holding a cash option, CFDs involve MASSIVE amounts of borrowing. It's scandelous how many providors forget to mention that to new traders (seen it happen too many times). If things go wrong (like the stop doesn't hold - which I've seen happen) you are left with a MASSIVE debtr to your broker who wants it immediately. You (and all who suggest CFD are "better" than options) are comparing apples to acid and advocating massive debt and borrowing. Not real smart. Some of us don't want to borrow massive amounts of money. Some prefer trading just with the cash they have and can afford to lose. Smarter - in many ways.




Bill

its not theory, its just mathmatics. you cant fight the raw truth of numbers.

cfds have nothing to do with borrowing. they are margined like futures.


----------



## wayneL

BTW sending these posts from my mobile folks hence  crap punctuation and typos


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Sky - sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on CFDs being better than holding a cash option, CFDs involve MASSIVE amounts of borrowing. It's scandelous how many providors forget to mention that to new traders (seen it happen too many times). If things go wrong (like the stop doesn't hold - which I've seen happen) you are left with a MASSIVE debtr to your broker who wants it immediately. You (and all who suggest CFD are "better" than options) are comparing apples to acid and advocating massive debt and borrowing. Not real smart. Some of us don't want to borrow massive amounts of money. Some prefer trading just with the cash they have and can afford to lose. Smarter - in many ways.




Bill I would really like to see how you position size your trades?


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill
> 
> all Ive done is point out the flaws in using options for daytrading and voice my disapproval that you teach others a suboptimal method. these things you can not deny so you bluster and name call.
> 
> BTW my name is wayne lawrence and i live in hawkes bay nz.
> 
> any other questions?




Cool, and you haven't called me any names at all have you? Scroll back and take another look. I never initiate name calling - never have, never will. But when people attack me and call me all sorts of names then yes, I'll dish it back - it's natural to want to defend one's self. 

There are flaws in everything if you want to spend your whole entire life looking for them - including what you prefer to do with your money. I teach what I know and what works (and has worked for years) for me. I teach with my real life experience. Just because you don't like it or think you know better doesn't take away from the realities of what I actually do. Fact is, I've made day trading options work - thousands of times. I've developed a method, layouts, and tools to make what others think is impossible - very possible. Not theory, not "I reckon this might work", _real live actual trades_. No amount of your theory can take that away. It's fact. Why does that threaten you SO much?

You don't like that I've been able to make it work? Fine, I have no problem with that but when you say that I can't make it work nor can anyone else is just nonsense. Why can't you just accept that someone else can do something you can't? Why is that SUCH a threat to you? It really beggars the question - "what's in it for you" to attack me so viciously and openly in public in ever increasing manic attempts to rubbish me? Do you sell your own course? Fine, if you do, we can both exist. If not? Why not? Maybe you just don't want to - fine but just because you don't want to do something that I can do doesn't give you the right to try to destroy me or my business.


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> Sky - sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on CFDs being better than holding a cash option, CFDs involve MASSIVE amounts of borrowing.




Most derivatives do. With CFDs its cash borrowings. With options, the cost of money is priced in. (btw its margin not borrowings)



> It's scandelous how many providors forget to mention that to new traders (seen it happen too many times). If things go wrong (like the stop doesn't hold - which I've seen happen) you are left with a MASSIVE debtr to your broker who wants it immediately.



 If things go wrong chances are you'll lose your margin. If things go MASSIVELY wrong you'll be in debt sure. If you're so concerned just put on a guarantee stop loss: Now you've got the same protection as an option without any greeks to worry about.



> You (and all who suggest CFD are "better" than options) are comparing apples to acid and advocating massive debt and borrowing. Not real smart. Some of us don't want to borrow massive amounts of money. Some prefer trading just with the cash they have and can afford to lose. Smarter - in many ways.



Oppies have no _*visible*_ borrow cause its priced in. Risk management intraday on all but the most liquid lines is a joke with liquidity and spread issues.
I don't advocate CFDs per se but compared to oppies for short term trading they are superior in many many ways.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill
> 
> its not theory, its just mathwmatics. you cant fight the raw truth of numbers.
> 
> cfds have nothing to do with borrowing. they are margined like futures.




CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...



> https://www.moneysmart*.gov.au*/investing/complex-investments/contracts-for-difference
> *How contracts for difference work*
> 
> Under a CFD, *you are borrowing money* to bet on the short-term movement of share prices. If you’re right, you make money. If you’re wrong, you lose.
> Imagine that there is a buyer and a seller of a CFD. If the share price increases, the buyer wins. If the share price decreases, the seller wins.
> You are not buying the underlying asset, just betting on the price movement.
> *The risks*
> 
> CFDs are generally *highly geared products*. This means the money you invest will generally only be a fraction of the market value of the shares (or other market asset) you’re ‘contracting’ for.
> For example, you may only have to put up $5000 for a $100,000 contract. You are effectively borrowing the other 95%. In that case, a 1% change in the share price can turn into a $20,000 loss.
> The contract is a legally binding agreement, no matter what the market value of the asset is. *If the market turns against you, the issuer of the contract:*
> 
> *Will require you to pay extra money*
> May close out your contract, for whatever it’s worth at the time, to recover some money.* If there’s not enough money, you will still be legally obliged to make up the difference*
> 
> *...*



ROTFLMAO! 

Ok, that's two down, is there anyone left?


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...




Bill whats your position sizing?


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!
> 
> Ok, that's two down, is there anyone left?




Nice you picked out the idiots guide to finance out of all the sources on the web.

Here's a bit about margin.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference#Trading



> CFDs are traded on margin, and the trader must maintain the minimum margin level at all times. A typical feature of CFD trading is that profit and loss and margin requirement is calculated constantly in real time and shown to the trader on screen. If the amount of money deposited with CFD broker drops below minimum margin level, margin calls can be made. Traders may need to cover these margins quickly otherwise the CFD provider may liquidate their positions.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Bill I would really like to see how you position size your trades?




It depends on how much money I have to go shopping with on the day. Usually 5-20k *of my "high risk" funds account.*


----------



## OneDayWealth

skyQuake said:


> Nice you picked out the idiots guide to finance out of all the sources on the web.
> 
> Here's a bit about margin.
> 
> Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference#Trading




I'll quote the government you can quote Wiki. It's still the same story. By the way, liquidating your position is fine if the market has a price at that point but when your CFD position open in the morning and the stock is way below (if you're long) and the sell price means there's a shortfall. You better find some cash real fast or you're in BIG strife. That's why I don't like CFDs or Eminis or any other type of trading where you have to borrow massive amounts of money from someone. I prefer to trade with the cash I have at my disposal. Far safer and if you lose you only lose your own money.  

I did consider CFD when I first heard about them but after grilling the broker on how they actually work (it took me a while to get him to admit the massive risk I face in a 911 or GFC type event) and was horrified - no thanks.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> It depends on how much money I have to go shopping with on the day. Usually 5-20k *of my "high risk" funds account.*




Thats just dumb avoidance. What do you teach your paying students about position size and risk of ruin?


----------



## skyQuake

OneDayWealth said:


> I'll quote the government you can quote Wiki. It's still the same story. By the way, liquidating your position is fine if the market has a price at that point but when your CFD position open in the morning and the stock is way below (if you're long) and the sell price means there's a shortfall. You better find some cash real fast or you're in BIG strife. That's why I don't like CFDs or Eminis or any other type of trading where you have to borrow massive amounts of money from someone. I prefer to trade with the cash I have at my disposal. Far safer and if you lose you only lose your own money.
> 
> I did consider CFD when I first heard about them but after grilling the broker on how they actually work (it took me a while to get him to admit the massive risk I face in a 911 or GFC type event) and was horrified - no thanks.




Fear of overnight gaps - understandable.

1. But were we not discussing intraday trades?
2. Find me a large cap that has gapped more than 5% in the last year. Then see if you can find some 7% plus. Chances are at worst you'll lose your 5% margin.
3. Guarantee stop loss orders if your're trading countrend and worried about gaps.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Thats just dumb avoidance. What do you teach your paying students about position size and risk of ruin?




That's just a dumb response. _I just told you_. What's your point aggravator?! If you're just going to come back with more and more insults because you just HATE the fact I'm doing something you can't, don't or won't do then just go and play with yourself and stay out of this thread. You are so angry that it's affecting your ability to have a reasonable discussion. In the end I don't have to keep repeating myself over and over and over and over again just because you refuse to listen or can't let go of your bone. I will tell you once more...

I tell them what I do and what my real life experience is and leave it up to them to decide how much they can risk. I deal with adults not children. I don't patronise them like you seem to want me to do. These people are all (in my real experience) capable of making their own decisions about what to risk and how much they can stand to lose. I tell them to paper trade so freaking much that by the time they even put one cent into the real market they all know exactly what to expect, what's normal and what could and is most likely to happen. I then give them all my own experience and we discuss what's happened to me over the years and years I've been doing this. NO other stock market educator I've ever come across spend more time with their members than me. That's why I decided to share what I do.

I tell them the chance of loss is high (from the outset - I make no bones about that) higher still if they don't monitor their trades. I also tell them how many times I've seen an option trade drop so suddenly that they were unable to take a decent acceptable loss. From my direct experience that can happen about once every 4 or 5 hundred trades. All the rest can be exited for a MAXIMUM loss of around 10% with a 15% (no excuses exit). Many, many times I have exited with far less than that. If things look shaky I sometimes exit with very little loss. 

Sometimes it goes up and comes down so only a tiny profit is made. Sometimes it goes down straight away and they take the 10% but that's not all the time and that's NOT taking previous profit into account which is real world. If I made $2,000 yesterday and today I take $1,000, that might be more than 10% but I don't care because I'm still up $1,000 but like I said, that rarely happens. If your mind is right and you obey the rules created from my real world experience you'll see what I see and take acceptable losses. 

Stop hating so much and you'll see that I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I treat people like adults and of course want them to succeed. What purpose would it serve if all I did was show people how to hurt themselves? You are so full of vile hate that no matter what my reasonable response is you want to kill me and patronise my members. You have some real issues dude. Work them out or you'll have a freaking heart attack! Jeeeez.


----------



## OneDayWealth

skyQuake said:


> Fear of overnight gaps - understandable.
> 
> 1. But were we not discussing intraday trades?
> 2. Find me a large cap that has gapped more than 5% in the last year. Then see if you can find some 7% plus. Chances are at worst you'll lose your 5% margin.
> 3. Guarantee stop loss orders if you're trading countrend and worried about gaps.




In my experience the only gaps I've seen during the day have been after a trading halt. This is part of market risk we all face but in the end I just don't like borrowing massive amounts of money off anyone if I can at all avoid it. If you're comfortable with that - fine. I'm not and so I choose options because they are cheap, move in predictable amounts and can be traded effectively if you know what you're doing and have the right tools. Horses for courses. I'm just not a fan of CFDs and my experience lies mostly in day trading options, that's what I'm comfortable with and it works for me on a regular basis so I stick with it. Even if CFDs were equally as risky and profitable, I do what I do and will stick to it for now.


----------



## Trembling Hand

LOL so you have no idea about the subject at all.

If you could of answered the question the discussion could of moved forward but you cannot and as such will still be treated as a cowboy.

Dangerous.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> LOL so you have no idea about the subject at all.
> 
> If you could of answered the question the discussion could of moved forward but you cannot and as such will still be treated as a cowboy.
> 
> Dangerous.




Well, I expect you're an expert in being a dangerous cowboy. I feel so bad to see you walk away so sad and defeated when you could have learned something new. *I answered every one of your stupid inane boring and predictable questions in great and fantastic detail trying (in vain) to help you understand*. I feel soooo bad that you could not understand my answers or that they were not to your (oh so important) satisfaction. Maybe once you read up some more we will be able to enjoy the luxury of your excellent company once again. I will miss you oh so very much. Goodbye and thank you for your excellent (though pointless) I-hate-all-things-new "hate posts". I hope one day you will get over your hatred of new things so that you can move on. I wish you all the best. 

Good riddance.


----------



## prawn_86

haha this thread is absolute gold.

Bill in one sentence per question can you answer the following please:

1. What is your R:R on an 'average' trade that you take?
2. What % of your account do you risk per trade?
3. What%  do you tell your students they should risk per trade?
4. Can you provide some broker statements to a mod such as myself in order to verify some of your claims?


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> *I answered every one of your stupid inane boring and predictable questions in great and fantastic detail trying (in vain) to help you understand*.




No you have not. Not at all. Position size is a simple 1 or 2 line question and you haven't more probably cannot answer it. See Prawns questions.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> haha this thread is absolute gold.
> 
> Bill in one sentence per question can you answer the following please:
> 
> 1. What is your R:R on an 'average' trade that you take?
> 2. What % of your account do you risk per trade?
> 3. What% do you tell your students they should risk per trade?
> 4. Can you provide some broker statements to a mod such as myself in order to verify some of your claims?




Sigh...we've been through all this a million times already. Back in round 1 I posted 4 weeks worth of real live trades and it was not posted for all to see - rejected for obvious reasons - it proved I was real and would have embarrassed regular posters. You had your chance and thew it back in my face because it proved I was not a fraud - just a normal guy with winners and losers just like other traders. It had winners, losers, the works. I've been down this road and I will be accused of photoshoping, if I don't post I'll be accused of lying and making this all up (though why I would want to is beyond me). Neither will be true but I will always lose in here so I wonder how many others would take a 100% losing bet and then we'll go several rounds with that conversation again and again and again. Now you come here, mock me and expect me to go through it all over again? 

I'll be accused of posting old stats (no matter how real they are) or you'll find something else to hound me about and I really couldn't be bothered. I've already wasted far too much time here already, offered tonnes of proof and answered every stupid inane question designed to trip me up and they have all failed. Why? because I'm real, what I do is real and what I teach is based on real experience to real people...and I've been trading this method for years, at first with Macquarie, then with eTrade then and more recently with Trader dealer. 

I've posted heaps and heaps of trades over the years to my members and traded with them for months and months on end - live (after the fact of course so as not to lead the market). I don't have to enter arm wrestle comps or provide more statements than I already have. Look up my deleted-by-mods post history and you'll see that I've already offered up real proof to your mods. Heaps of it in fact. Ask them why they refused to post it forcing me to go round after round answering the same old questions time and time again. I made links available to real statements and everything for everyone to see and my post was deleted. I think they said something about "the details were too personal" or something. I can't really remember to be honest, it was back in 09 I think. But I offered proof and it was rejected and deleted. I wonder why. Actually, I know why.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> No you have not. Not at all. Position size is a simple 1 or 2 line question and you haven't more probably cannot answer it. See Prawns questions.




Couldn't stay away for more than 25 minutes!! lol classic.


----------



## tech/a

OneDayWealth said:


> Well, I expect you're an expert in being a dangerous cowboy. I feel so bad to see you walk away so sad and defeated when you could have learned something new. *I answered every one of your stupid inane boring and predictable questions in great and fantastic detail trying (in vain) to help you understand*. I feel soooo bad that you could not understand my answers or that they were not to your (oh so important) satisfaction. Maybe once you read up some more we will be able to enjoy the luxury of your excellent company once again. I will miss you oh so very much. Goodbye and thank you for your excellent (though pointless) I-hate-all-things-new "hate posts". I hope one day you will get over your hatred of new things so that you can move on. I wish you all the best.
> 
> Good riddance.




Imagine being a client with questions like T/H's or Waynes or Prawns
Persistence in gaining answers would have you held in contempt.
Bludgeoned to death with verbal rhetoric.

From what Ive seen there is no way Id be looking into this guy as a paid educator.
Still I suppose your not targetting the sophisticated end of the market.
The average biker understands your commentary clearly.

Poster number 3 for my ignore button.


----------



## sinner

Trembling Hand said:


> No you have not. Not at all. Position size is a simple 1 or 2 line question and you haven't more probably cannot answer it. See Prawns questions.




If you look at the first page of the thread our friend Bill claims $2,000-5,000 profit per week from a $20,000 starting balance.

Assuming one trade per day, we are talking $400-1,000 profit per trade if you don't count losers. If you count losers then we would be expecting at least $800-2000 profit per trade.

If we also assume Bill Stacy is a gun trader, earning on average $3 for every $1 he risks (a metric exceeding my own performance last year) then you could assume he is on average risking $130-330 per trade at a 100% track record, or more like $260-660 accounting for some losses.

To me, at this point reality must intervene however, since Bill reckons he trades the ASX options, which really limits him to XJO and ASX20 equities at a size that far exceeds any sane risk management (since we also assume Bill is always long/never short options due to his distaste for posting collateral). Especially in consideration of the fact that Bill has been trading options while they were quoted as *1000 size. A $1 priced *1000 option (which all ASX options were until recently) already exceeds all of the above risk assumptions.


----------



## Trembling Hand

sinner said:


> If you look at the first page of the thread our friend Bill claims $2,000-5,000 profit per week from a $20,000 starting balance.
> 
> Assuming one trade per day, we are talking $400-1,000 profit per trade if you don't count losers. If you count losers then we would be expecting at least $800-2000 profit per trade.
> 
> If we also assume Bill Stacy is a gun trader, earning on average $3 for every $1 he risks (a metric exceeding my own performance last year) then you could assume he is on average risking $130-330 per trade at a 100% track record, or more like $260-660 accounting for some losses.
> 
> *To me, at this point reality must intervene however,* since Bill reckons he trades the ASX options, which really limits him to XJO and ASX20 equities at a size that far exceeds any sane risk management (since we also assume Bill is always long/never short options due to his distaste for posting collateral). Especially in consideration of the fact that Bill has been trading options while they were quoted as *1000 size. *A $1 priced *1000 option (which all ASX options were until recently) already exceeds all of the above risk assumptions.*




Exactly where I was going. His position size is far far away from reality.


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> Sigh...we've been through all this a million times already. Back in round 1 I posted 4 weeks worth of real live trades and it was not posted for all to see - rejected for obvious reasons - it proved I was real and would have embarrassed regular posters. You had your chance and thew it back in my face because it proved I was not a fraud - just a normal guy with winners and losers just like other traders. It had winners, losers, the works. I've been down this road and I will be accused of photoshoping, if I don't post I'll be accused of lying and making this all up (though why I would want to is beyond me). Neither will be true but I will always lose in here so I wonder how many others would take a 100% losing bet and then we'll go several rounds with that conversation again and again and again. Now you come here, mock me and expect me to go through it all over again?
> 
> I'll be accused of posting old stats (no matter how real they are) or you'll find something else to hound me about and I really couldn't be bothered. I've already wasted far too much time here already, offered tonnes of proof and answered every stupid inane question designed to trip me up and they have all failed. Why? because I'm real, what I do is real and what I teach is based on real experience to real people...and I've been trading this method for years, at first with Macquarie, then with eTrade then and more recently with Trader dealer.
> 
> I've posted heaps and heaps of trades over the years to my members and traded with them for months and months on end - live (after the fact of course so as not to lead the market). I don't have to enter arm wrestle comps or provide more statements than I already have. Look up my deleted-by-mods post history and you'll see that I've already offered up real proof to your mods. Heaps of it in fact. Ask them why they refused to post it forcing me to go round after round answering the same old questions time and time again. I made links available to real statements and everything for everyone to see and my post was deleted. I think they said something about "the details were too personal" or something. I can't really remember to be honest, it was back in 09 I think. But I offered proof and it was rejected and deleted. I wonder why. Actually, I know why.




I haven't bothered reading all that as i dont see any one line answers to any of the questions i asked. Simple questions should be able to have succinct answers imo. I'll keep waiting.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sinner said:


> ...(since we also assume Bill is always long/never short options due to his distaste for posting collateral)...




You surprise me with your assumptions. I go short all the time. In fact I don't care if I go long or short. It's all the same to me. Asumptions...tsk tsk. 



Trembling Hand said:


> Exactly where I was going. His position size is far far away from reality.




I thought you were leaving...lol



prawn_86 said:


> I haven't bothered reading all that as i dont see any one line answers to any of the questions i asked. Simple questions should be able to have succinct answers imo. I'll keep waiting.




A mod who couldn't be bothered reading a response. Interesting. Quality move.


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> A mod who couldn't be bothered reading a response. Interesting. Quality move.




Think of those questions as from a prospective student. I have 4 simple questions i want to ask to see if i should go ahead with your course. I just want some simple answers so i can compare against various educators.

It's fine if you cant provide it, it just means that if i were a prospective student i would take my business elesewhere.


----------



## sinner

OneDayWealth said:


> You surprise me with your assumptions. I go short all the time. In fact I don't care if I go long or short. It's all the same to me. Asumptions...tsk tsk.




Bill in this thread you have repeatedly shown any curious onlookers that you possess little or *no* understanding of terminology which any trader worth  should speak as their first language.

You don't understand margin, you don't understand leverage, you don't understand risk/reward, you don't understand options greeks, you don't understand how to quote returns in a non misleading manner or even why someone might do that...and now...to top it all off...you show that final little piece of ignorance by mixing up the difference between being long an option, and being long the underlying.

Bill Stacy, you are not a trader.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> haha this thread is absolute gold.
> 
> Bill in one sentence per question can you answer the following please:
> 
> 1. What is your R:R on an 'average' trade that you take?
> 2. What % of your account do you risk per trade?
> 3. What% do you tell your students they should risk per trade?
> 4. Can you provide some broker statements to a mod such as myself in order to verify some of your claims?




*1)* It varies (as I have explained many times). There is no set R:R - sorry I can't fit into your little box. You take as much as it gives and risk as much as you want. I'm not your boss. all I do is explain how I trade and give you the layouts and tools to do as I do.
*2)* As much as I'm comfortable with (as I have explained many times). 
*3)* It is illegal for me to personally advise anyone - you should know that...tsk, tsk.
*4)* Yes, and I have done so (as I have explained but you were too busy to read it)

Happy? Of course not. Why? Because I don't fit into your little boxes. I'm an educator with something new and that must scare the bejeesus out of you. Why? I have no idea. Actually, that's not true, I have a pretty good idea. 

Sorry if my first answer was too long for you to read. Sometimes the facts take more time to explain that you have time for - I can't really help that.


----------



## sinner

OneDayWealth said:


> I'm an educator with something new




I admit it Bill, I have never seen any of the options spruik--err educators come up with such convoluted methods to get stomped on by the options market. Often they just run a spiel about covered calls and how you can trade them for income. Usually, claims of 20% in one week are left to the forex spruik--err educators.


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> *1)* It varies (as I have explained many times). There is no set R:R - sorry I can't fit into your little box. You take as much as it gives and risk as much as you want. I'm not your boss. all I do is explain how I trade and give you the layouts and tools to do as I do.
> *2)* As much as I'm comfortable with (as I have explained many times).
> *3)* It is illegal for me to personally advise anyone - you should know that...tsk, tsk.
> *4)* Yes, and I have done so (as I have explained but you were too busy to read it)




OK that's a start, thankyou. Further to those points can you please succinctly answer the following?

1. What is your total R:R over your entire trading history then?
2. What % is the most you have risked per trade? And what is the least?
3. If you are an educator I assume you would be RG146 compliant/qualified which means it isn't illegal for you to give personal advice, providing you are appropriately qualified and operating under an AFSL.
4. If you provide authentic broker staments to myself i am happy to assess them

and one new question
5. What is your AFSL license number?


----------



## OneDayWealth

sinner said:


> Bill in this thread you have repeatedly shown any curious onlookers that you possess little or *no* understanding of terminology which any trader worth  should speak as their first language.
> 
> You don't understand margin, you don't understand leverage, you don't understand risk/reward, you don't understand options greeks, you don't understand how to quote returns in a non misleading manner or even why someone might do that...and now...to top it all off...you show that final little piece of ignorance by mixing up the difference between being long an option, and being long the underlying.
> 
> Bill Stacy, you are not a trader.




Lol, that is funny so are you. Not a trader? OMG! What should I do with all this profit? Should I return it back to the ASX? I'm not a trader eh? So when I buy something and then sell it back to the market thousands of times over many years what does that make me? A truck driver? Chef? Welder? Dole bludger? Of course I'm a freaking trader moron! What a stupid thing to say. 

You see what you did to yourself there? With that one _stupid_ statement you proved how angry and threatened you must feel. With arms flailing in the air you panic at the mere mention of something new and just want to kill it because that will make everything better. Aaaah, now we can go back to living in our own little boxes where only what WE do is right and new things are wrong, bad...must...be...destroyed.  

You pathetic losers, *I spit on your worthless judgments* of something you clearly have no intention of ever understanding. And you know the funniest thing? It's SOOOOOO simple! You are what is wrong with most "educators" and "gurus". You stand there and throw stones and find new ways to trick newbies into being so scared that no one should ever trade anything unless you are guiding them down your "super complicated" roadway filled with all your spooky dangerous mathematical warnings designed to make you look like all knowing gods of everything.  Grow a freaking spine! Open your tiny minds and inquire instead of destroying every new thing you come across. You are stock market vandals. No better than anyone.  

Pathetic, just pathetic. Seriously sad individuals.


----------



## McLovin

Stand back folks, it's about to blow!


----------



## mazzatelli

Have you backtested your Moving average system/indicators which you are using?

If so can you provide some stats e.g. win%, loss%, peak to trough drawdown etc?


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> OK that's a start, thankyou. Further to those points can you please succinctly answer the following?
> 
> 1. What is your total R:R over your entire trading history then?
> 2. What % is the most you have risked per trade? And what is the least?
> 3. If you are an educator I assume you would be RG146 compliant/qualified which means it isn't illegal for you to give personal advice, providing you are appropriately qualified and operating under an AFSL.
> 4. If you provide authentic broker staments to myself i am happy to assess them
> 
> and one new question
> 5. What is your AFSL license number?




OMFG! You will never be pleased no matter what I say. 

1) Never added it up. Why on earth would I bother? Besides, I do all sorts of trading. To be worth anything to you I'd have to add up all the day trades that I did that followed my method exactly. Hope that answer wasn't too long for you. 
2) Not sure, probably about 50k max, 2k min
3) Yes and no I'm not qualified to give personal advice (without a questionnaire). I (when I'm teaching) am licensed for general advice only and have no intention of getting involved personally in anyone's trades. 
4) Fine, I have a whole month's worth waiting. Will any period from 2004 to now be ok?
5) I don't own an AFSL. Very few advisers do. I haven't actually taught for a few months but when I did I was under an AR under an AFSL. I presume that's what you meant to ask. But...

Give me one reason to have faith in you after all your personal attacks? What will it achieve if I give you my statements? Do you actually think it will keep these animals happy? I would need to be convinced that I'm dealing with a fair minded individual and I have seen no evidence of that on this forum yet. Only barking dogs, snakes in the grass and disgusting vermin. I have defended myself to the best of my ability and answered all questions put to me - some many times over. 

I have wasted days and days and weeks and months and years arguing with these mindless fools who refuse to accept any proof if it flies in the face of what they think they already know. All minds in here are shut firm so even when I do provide proof of trading they will attack it and find something to poke at. In the end it matters diddly squat what any of you think. This thread is not for you guys anyway. I'm just having fun laughing at your weak attacks. I know what I know, I know what I do and I know how to do what I do very well. That's all I need to know. If you guys can't accept new things then you have your own severe mental issues to deal with. You've made it very clear that there is nothing I can say that will convince you that I am not a ghost. 

The only real question remaining is "why are you all so scared of me?" lol, it's hilarious to see you all scrambling to find something new to attack me with. The emails of support I am getting all point to you being pathetic little losers with nothing better to do than protect your own little turf. I came on here to defend the lies and crap that was being said about me and I've done exactly that to the best of my ability. I'm proud of what I do and who I am and nothing you little grubs will say or do will change that. 

Get over yourselves!


----------



## OneDayWealth

McLovin said:


> Stand back folks, it's about to blow!




Keep tugging Mclovin', Don't forget the kleenex. Yuk, you really a disgusting little troll. Aren't you on the wrong site?


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> Have you backtested your Moving average system/indicators which you are using?
> 
> If so can you provide some stats e.g. win%, loss%, peak to trough drawdown etc?




No, it's virtually impossible to back test live options day trading. Experience is gained via real live paper trading. I haven't changed my MAs for over 4 years. They have stood the test of time. I've never bothered calculating win%, loss% or peak to trough drawdown. never needed to. I only do what works and has worked for me over the years. Some play with stats while others just get down to trading. I'm the latter. I've got a life.


----------



## ColB

McLovin said:


> Stand back folks, it's about to blow!




As a fellow ASF member we generally all try to help each other out.  You may find the following link of use Bill.

Regards ColB

"...Schizophrenia is classified as a “psychotic disorder” in the DSM-IV, which is the diagnostic manual used by mental health professionals. When a person is “psychotic,” it means he is unable to distinguish between what is real and what is imagined.

In more clinical terms, his “reality testing” is severely impaired. An individual with schizophrenia is not necessarily always psychotic, but may have periods of psychosis which are often referred to as “psychotic episodes.” These episodes make it impossible to function normally while they are occurring.

Psychotic symptoms primarily involve hallucinations or *delusions*,...."

http://www.schizophrenic.com/content/schizophrenia/symptoms/schizophrenia-symptoms


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> 1) Never added it up. Why on earth would I bother? Besides, I do all sorts of trading. To be worth anything to you I'd have to add up all the day trades that I did that followed my method exactly. Hope that answer wasn't too long for you.
> 2) Not sure, probably about 50k max, 2k min
> 3) Yes and *no I'm not qualified to give personal advice* (without a questionnaire). I (when I'm teaching) am licensed for general advice only and *have no intention of getting involved personally in anyone's trades.*
> 4) Fine, I have a whole month's worth waiting. Will any period from 2004 to now be ok?
> 5) I don't own an AFSL. Very few advisers do. I haven't actually taught for a few months but when I did I was under an AR under an AFSL. I presume that's what you meant to ask.




1. OK thanks. Personally i wouldnt go with an 'educator' who doesnt know their own statistics. Others may be different

2. Maybe i wasn't clear. I was meaning to ask risk as a % of account size, not dollar value. Can you please provide this?

3. The bits i have bolded in the quotes are quite concerning imo. *If you are charging people a large amount of money to teach them, and you can only give general advice, how can you help them with any specific questions they might have?*

4. Provided they are audited broker statements any month is fine, but preferably more recent.

5. As per point 3 i dont see why anyone would choose an educator who isnt qualified to give personal advice and who doesnt have an AFSL.


----------



## OneDayWealth

ColB said:


> As a fellow ASF member we generally all try to help each other out. You may find the following link of use Bill.
> 
> Regards ColB
> 
> "...Schizophrenia is classified as a “psychotic disorder” in the DSM-IV, which is the diagnostic manual used by mental health professionals. When a person is “psychotic,” it means he is unable to distinguish between what is real and what is imagined.
> 
> In more clinical terms, his “reality testing” is severely impaired. An individual with schizophrenia is not necessarily always psychotic, but may have periods of psychosis which are often referred to as “psychotic episodes.” These episodes make it impossible to function normally while they are occurring.
> 
> Psychotic symptoms primarily involve hallucinations or *delusions*,...."
> 
> http://www.schizophrenic.com/content/schizophrenia/symptoms/schizophrenia-symptoms




Thanks for helping me understand you. Why would you admit to such health issues on a public forum though? Is that part of your illness?


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> No, it's virtually impossible to back test live options day trading. Experience is gained via real live paper trading. I haven't changed my MAs for over 4 years. They have stood the test of time. I've never bothered calculating win%, loss% or peak to trough drawdown. never needed to. I only do what works and has worked for me over the years. Some play with stats while others just get down to trading. I'm the latter. I've got a life.




I didn't ask for back-testing ops, just the indicator system, which sounds like from your posts a MA crossover.


----------



## investorpaul

Wait.... so let me get this straight.... This poster is trying to highlight his success/drum up busines by attacking pretty much every top poster on ASF.

If I was a potential client and I saw this thread I would run a mile.


----------



## investorpaul

OneDayWealth said:


> 2) Not sure, probably about 50k max, 2k min




The original question actually asked what % you risk on a trade. $50k or $2k is NOT a percentage.

You could have been trading a $100,000 position on the first example, meaning you risked 50% or you could have been trading a $500,000 position meaning you only risked 10%.

So I will put the same question to you. What is the minimum and maximum % of your account balance that you would risk on any one trade?

Edit: Sorry I just saw prawn has put this Q to you again already.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> 1. OK thanks. Personally i wouldnt go with an 'educator' who doesnt know their own statistics. Others may be different
> 
> 2. Maybe i wasn't clear. I was meaning to ask risk as a % of account size, not dollar value. Can you please provide this?
> 
> 3. The bits i have bolded in the quotes are quite concerning imo. *If you are charging people a large amount of money to teach them, and you can only give general advice, how can you help them with any specific questions they might have?*
> 
> 4. Provided they are audited broker statements any month is fine, but preferably more recent.
> 
> 5. As per point 3 i dont see why anyone would choose an educator who isnt qualified to give personal advice and who doesnt have an AFSL.




Generally I've never asked anyone I bought a home study course from for their personal financial papers. I'd assume it was none of my business and I can't imagine anyone giving them out nor anyone really caring. No one has ever asked me. Besides, how I do or have done has very little bearing on how they will do in the future. As you well know, past performance is no guarantee of future performance. I guarantee only to show them exactly how I lay out my charts, all my indicators, to give them all my tools and help them get started with paper trading exercises. This is usually much more than any other educators offer - I've been told. This is also my own personal experience. 

2. "If" people ask, I say that on average they should trade no more than about 20% of their total investment portfolio on this style of high risk trading and take no more than a 10% loss. This equates down to a overall risk of about 2% on their entire portfolio. Most of my clients have portfolios of over 200k so to risk 10% of a 20k trade is nothing to them. If they use more than that on a trade it's on their heads not mine. 

3. Because my course deals with "how I do what I do" not "when they should do what I do". If I get a question I answer it in a non targeted manner and it's usually about how "I" trade, not how they should trade. I've been advised this is appropriate for an AR. 

5. Most educators are not qualified to give personal advice and none I have ever seen take a personal interest in their member's trades. Brokers are the obvious exception but the last time I listened to a broker was about 2005. Generally I just trade online. 

One last point. Very few people who sell financial advice (general or personal) have their own AFSL - I would have thought you'd know that. Unless you're a bit confused and mean AR under AFSL. I presume you do and I ALWAYS operate under one when I'm teaching. They are expensive though (usually about $1,300 - $2,500 a month) so I only get one when I need it. I presume all you guys are the same with all the advice you hand out you would also have to be an AR under an AFSL or you are all talking and posting illegally when you give advice - even general advice.


----------



## OneDayWealth

investorpaul said:


> Wait.... so let me get this straight.... This poster is trying to highlight his success/drum up busines by attacking pretty much every top poster on ASF.
> 
> If I was a potential client and I saw this thread I would run a mile.




I have NEVER claimed to be trying to drum up business. I don't even sell this course any more. I'm just here defending myself against the dogs of fear and war. 



investorpaul said:


> The original question actually asked what % you risk on a trade. $50k or $2k is NOT a percentage.
> 
> You could have been trading a $100,000 position on the first example, meaning you risked 50% or you could have been trading a $500,000 position meaning you only risked 10%.
> 
> So I will put the same question to you. What is the minimum and maximum % of your account balance that you would risk on any one trade?
> 
> Edit: Sorry I just saw prawn has put this Q to you again already.




Very well.


----------



## luke256

investorpaul said:


> If I was a potential client and I saw this thread I would run a mile.




+1, I was thinking the same thing.




> Prawn_86
> 2. What % is the most you have risked per trade? And what is the least?






> OneDayWealth
> 2) Not sure, probably about 50k max, 2k min




If i was a client asking a simple question like the % risked on a trade and got a dodgy reply like the one given here.....i be a little frustrated.


----------



## OneDayWealth

mazzatelli said:


> I didn't ask for back-testing ops, just the indicator system, which sounds like from your posts a MA crossover.




You want to know what specific MA I use? mmm. 

I'll tell you this, it's not a crossover. It's just a simple solo MA that my candles must float over (or under as the case may be).


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...
> 
> 
> ROTFLMAO!
> 
> Ok, that's two down, is there anyone left?




Bill

Not withstanding the gu'mint spiel, which is not technically correct, can you please tell me what you are borrowing to purchase. 

IOW If you pay off "the loan", what do you end up with?

With margin lending shares, (which IS borrowing) once you pay off the loan you have full unencumbered title to the shares. 

CFDs do not work this way, as it is only a contract between two parties to settle the difference between the entry price and the exit price. You cannot "pay off" such a contract.

There is a finance charge which reflects the cost of carry for the market maker to hedge his position, but this is not borrowing any more than covered calls are "renting shares".

Highlight of this fact is that you only pay a finance charge if you are long; you receive interest if you are short. So how can you be "borrowing if you are receiving interest? 

The cost of carry operates the same way as options in that the person assumed to be carrying the shares, receives interest.

Once again, options have cost of carry priced in, but you pay/are paid up front. CFDs you pay/are paid as you go along.

Any more questions?


----------



## TeleSonic

OneDayWealth said:


> 3) Yes and no I'm not qualified to give personal advice (without a questionnaire). I (when I'm teaching) am licensed for general advice only and have no intention of getting involved personally in anyone's trades.




You either satisfy RG146 requirements to provide personal advice or you don't. I've been provided personal advice many times and never been provided with a questionnaire. We're talking about trading advice, not financial planning. 



OneDayWealth said:


> 5) I don't own an AFSL. Very few advisers do. I haven't actually taught for a few months but when I did I was under an AR under an AFSL. I presume that's what you meant to ask. But...




What about supporting your clients? Surely you're not supporting a client base without being licensed?


----------



## wayneL

Folks I think this Bill Stacy character is answering our questions, just not succinctly. I believe we are in fact getting answers to our satisfaction... a little interpretation is all that is required.

And as I mentioned before:

The lady doth protest too much.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Bill
> 
> Not withstanding the gu'mint spiel, which is not technically correct, can you please tell me what you are borrowing to purchase.
> 
> If you pay off "the loan", what do you end up with?
> 
> With margin lending shares, (which IS borrowing) once you pay off the loan you have full unencumbered title to the shares.
> 
> CFDs do not work this way, as it is only a contract between two parties to settle the difference between the entry price and the exit price.
> 
> There is a finance charge which reflects the cost of carry for the market maker to hedge his position, but this is not borrowing any more than covered calls are "renting shares".
> 
> Highlight of this fact is that you only pay a finance charge if you are long; you receive interest if you are short. So how can you be "borrowing if you are receiving interest?
> 
> The cost of carry operates the same way as options in that the person assumed to be carrying the shares, receives interest.
> 
> Once again, options have cost of carry priced in, but you pay/are paid up front. CFDs you pay/are paid as you go along.
> 
> Any more questions?




Ask me about day trading options and I'll ask you about CFDs (should I ever need to). 



TeleSonic said:


> You either satisfy RG146 requirements to provide personal advice or you don't. I've been provided personal advice many times and never been provided with a questionnaire. We're talking about trading advice, not financial planning.
> 
> What about supporting your clients? Surely you're not supporting a client base without being licensed?




Correct, I'm not. None have needed support for ages. My videos were/are extremely detailed and left very little to be asked anyway. 

Your first statement is incorrect though. There is a very specific difference between being certified to provide personal financial advice and general advice. I'm clearly listed as "General Advice". It was made very clear to me that without a specific questionaire I am NOT to provide any specific advice to anyone and never have. I take specific advice to mean (and have checked this with the AFSL holder) that specific advice means asnwering "should I enter/exit?" which is a question I have never answered nor wished to.


----------



## luke256

Its frustating to see the same questions asked mutiple times. Only to get vague replies.

i.e amount risked per trade. Is it that hard to just say "2% of enitre portfolio balance on any one trade"


I can only imagine how frustrated a paying student would feel if they have to ask the same question 4 or 5 times.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Ask me about day trading options




I've asked, but you sidestep the answers. 

This does not go unnoticed.


----------



## mazzatelli

OneDayWealth said:


> You want to know what specific MA I use? mmm.
> 
> I'll tell you this, it's not a crossover. It's just a simple solo MA that my candles must float over (or under as the case may be).




No, I don't need to know what your MA settings are (EMA, SMA, 20 , 30 day etc). I was after some indication of the performance of the system but you've already said you don't test systems beyond paper trading.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Folks I think this Bill Stacy character is answering our questions, just not succinctly. I believe we are in fact getting answers to our satisfaction... a little interpretation is all that is required.
> 
> And as I mentioned before:
> 
> The lady doth protest to much.




Despite getting that classic quote wrong, I am defending myself against slander and defamation as is my right. If you're ok with people saying bad things about you in public fine. I'm not. You're not cute, stop trying to be. Ask me about day trading options and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability, attack me like a dog and I'll rip your ****ing head off in defense - just like any other self respecting person would and should. I stand up for my convictions, have never knowingly ripped anyone off and despise people who do. I take exception to being called a crook, a charlatan, a scammer, spammer or cowboy. 

I am none of those things and will answer to any fair question but some of the rubbish you guys are trotting out here is just unbelievable. It is you who protests too much I think but your protest is about "how can anything new exist"? "How can anyone come up with anything we don't already know about?" That is a very narrow view of this world and to maintain it does not serve you or anyone. Keep an open mind and you will find me very accommodating. Attack like vicious dogs and you'll get the response you deserve.


----------



## sinner

OneDayWealth said:


> Despite getting that classic quote wrong, I am defending myself against slander and defamation as is my right.




Bill if you can highlight a single case of slander or defamation which you have been subject to since your arrival at ASF I will eat my freaking hat.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> 2. "If" people ask, I say that on average they should trade no more than about 20% of their total investment portfolio on this style of high risk trading and take no more than a 10% loss. This equates down to a overall risk of about 2% on their entire portfolio. Most of my clients have portfolios of over 200k so to risk 10% of a 20k trade is nothing to them. If they use more than that on a trade it's on their heads not mine.




So the above would make the quote below BS?



OneDayWealth said:


> *Not only is $5,000 plenty to make enough money to replace the average wage I've done it a few times and seen others do it as well.* It's less stressful to use more money and stay in the market for less time thereby minimising the risk.




Just part of the spiel?


----------



## luke256

OneDayWealth said:


> Despite getting that classic quote wrong, I am defending myself against slander and *defamation* as is my right. If you're ok with people saying bad things about you in public fine. I'm not.




For you to have a defamation case you would need to have a reputation in the first place....which is questionable by the low class comments you have subjected ASF posters to (i.e I'll rip your ****ing head off). 

LAW:
"If the published material lowers the person's reputation in the eyes of members of the community".....i would argue you had no reputation to begin with.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Despite getting that classic quote wrong, I am defending myself against slander and defamation as is my right. If you're ok with people saying bad things about you in public fine. I'm not. You're not cute, stop trying to be. Ask me about day trading options and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability, attack me like a dog and I'll rip your ****ing head off in defense - just like any other self respecting person would and should. I stand up for my convictions, have never knowingly ripped anyone off and despise people who do. I take exception to being called a crook, a charlatan, a scammer, spammer or cowboy.
> 
> I am none of those things and will answer to any fair question but some of the rubbish you guys are trotting out here is just unbelievable. It is you who protests too much I think but your protest is about "how can anything new exist"? "How can anyone come up with anything we don't already know about?" That is a very narrow view of this world and to maintain it does not serve you or anyone. Keep an open mind and you will find me very accommodating. Attack like vicious dogs and you'll get the response you deserve.




As sinner has pointed out, not one person has defamed you, just exposed a few truths, truth being the ultimate arbiter in such claims.

As far as "I'll rip your ****ing head off in defense", I note that you have been singularly unsuccessful in achieving anything of the sort.

You see, all the people here are doing is asking legitimate questions and expressing concern at what you are teaching inexperienced people to do with regards to massive delta exposure and massive unnecessary contest risk.

That is simply the truth of the matter, which is what you cannot escape from.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sinner said:


> Bill if you can highlight a single case of slander or defamation which you have been subject to since your arrival at ASF I will eat my freaking hat.




You better get the salt and pepper out. 

I have been called everything under the sun including all those things I just mentioned. Are you freaking kidding me? Calling someone a crook, a scammer, a spammer, a cowboy and all compliments I suppose? Give me a break. Why would you even post that unless you haven't read this thread at all. Even in the last few pages there are several instances of all. 

Thanks for your useful post.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> As sinner has pointed out, not one person has defamed you, just exposed a few truths, truth being the ultimate arbiter in such claims.
> 
> As far as "I'll rip your ****ing head off in defense", I note that you have been singularly unsuccessful in achieving anything of the sort.
> 
> You see, all the people here are doing is asking legitimate questions and expressing concern at what you are teaching inexperienced people to do with regards to massive delta exposure and massive unnecessary contest risk.
> 
> That is simply the truth of the matter, which is what you cannot escape from.




I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. Your superman complex is getting the better of you Wayne. I've never said my course is aimed at inexperienced people - they are your words. People pay me to show them how I do what I do and I do that. You seem to have a real problem and I think it stems from your patronising view of traders. You think they are all hopeless and need coddling. In my experience nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I have often referred to my stuff as being suitable for the experienced option trader so I really don't know where you got that from. 

You can carry on about your own mumbo jumbo the fact remains. I do well at this, I am very successful at showing people what I do. My movies are extremely well made and highly detailed and leave very little to chance. Most people who bought my vids were experienced option traders with TA experience they were able to apply immediately and many are very successfully duplicating my results. 

As much as you hate to hear that it's a fact and I'm sorry you can't accept it but that's really not my problem. It's yours and it's only yours because you are making it yours. How appointed you policeman of everyone? You underestimate people and your condescending and patronising tone is loud and clear for all to hear. I've even had emails to that affect singling you out specifically. You're not all you think you are and your posts are proving to all how sour an individual you really are.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> 2. "If" people ask, I say that on average they should trade no more than about 20% of their total investment portfolio on this style of high risk trading and take no more than a 10% loss. This equates down to a overall risk of about 2% on their entire portfolio. Most of my clients have portfolios of over 200k so to risk 10% of a 20k trade is nothing to them. If they use more than that on a trade it's on their heads not mine.




Now again working with your recommended 2% risk per trade and taking your ANZ example from 2009!!

Your size was 27 contracts. Purchased at $0.825 total value being $22,275.

Assuming from the above statement you will be stopped out after the oppie moves 10% against you, in the ANZ option example that would be $0.085 or,

27 contracts X 1000 X $0.085 = $2295 loss. Making your recommended (by you) account size to take such a trade would be $115,000 ish? Correct?

You made $3375 less brokerage.

______________________________________________________________


Would that be correct. Hows my calculator going today Bill?


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> So the above would make the quote below BS?
> 
> 
> 
> Just part of the spiel?




lol, you silly man. Not at all. There is no conflict. They are free to use as much as they wish. Those with less than 50k in their accounts often just dabble with just 4 or 5k. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Keep trying. 



luke256 said:


> For you to have a defamation case you would need to have a reputation in the first place....which is questionable by the low class comments you have subjected ASF posters to (i.e I'll rip your ****ing head off).
> 
> LAW:
> "If the published material lowers the person's reputation in the eyes of members of the community".....i would argue you had no reputation to begin with.




Thank you for you informed comment. 



mazzatelli said:


> No, I don't need to know what your MA settings are (EMA, SMA, 20 , 30 day etc). I was after some indication of the performance of the system but you've already said you don't test systems beyond paper trading.




lol, now you're scraping and twisting my words. That's not what I said at all. Read before you speak. You're embarrassing yourself.


----------



## sinner

OneDayWealth said:


> You better get the salt and pepper out.
> 
> I have been called everything under the sun including all those things I just mentioned. Are you freaking kidding me? Calling someone a crook, a scammer, a spammer, a cowboy and all compliments I suppose? Give me a break. Why would you even post that unless you haven't read this thread at all. Even in the last few pages there are several instances of all.
> 
> Thanks for your useful post.




Guys check out this thread I just found on the net

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Onedaywealth-t238080.html

Aside from the sheer scammy nature of the website, check out Bills trading record for the start of 2009 (post #7). 

From examining the linked thread, I would put Bills R:R at 1:1 or *less*. I am starting to wonder how it's possible all of his students were trading sane risk levels of *1000 options with a $20,000 starting balance.

At first I was wondering how Bill had continued to trade like this without blowing up, but at $5,000 a pop to "train" in his "course", I no longer have any questions.


----------



## OneDayWealth

Trembling Hand said:


> Now again working with your recommended 2% risk per trade and taking your ANZ example from 2009!!
> 
> Your size was 27 contracts. Purchased at $0.825 total value being $22,275.
> 
> Assuming from the above statement you will be stopped out after the oppie moves 10% against you, in the ANZ option example that would be $0.085 or,
> 
> 27 contracts X 1000 X $0.085 = $2295 loss. Making your recommended (by you) account size to take such a trade would be $115,000 ish? Correct?
> 
> You made $3375 less brokerage.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Would that be correct. Hows my calculator going today Bill?




Way more actually.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. Your superman complex is getting the better of you Wayne. I've never said my course is aimed at inexperienced people - they are your words. People pay me to show them how I do what I do and I do that. You seem to have a real problem and I think it stems from your patronising view of traders. You think they are all hopeless and need coddling. In my experience nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I have often referred to my stuff as being suitable for the experienced option trader so I really don't know where you got that from.
> 
> You can carry on about your own mumbo jumbo the fact remains. I do well at this, I am very successful at showing people what I do. My movies are extremely well made and highly detailed and leave very little to chance. Most people who bought my vids were experienced option traders with TA experience they were able to apply immediately and many are very successfully duplicating my results.
> 
> As much as you hate to hear that it's a fact and I'm sorry you can't accept it but that's really not my problem. It's yours and it's only yours because you are making it yours. How appointed you policeman of everyone? You underestimate people and your condescending and patronising tone is loud and clear for all to hear. I've even had emails to that affect singling you out specifically. You're not all you think you are and your posts are proving to all how sour an individual you really are.




Pfft. You're trying to throw up a smokescreen Bill.

Apart from being nonsense, it doesn't take anything away from what I said, that your system has massive inappropriate delta risk and massive unnecessary contest risk.

Them's the inescapable facts.


----------



## OneDayWealth

sinner said:


> Guys check out this thread I just found on the net
> 
> http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Onedaywealth-t238080.html
> 
> Aside from the sheer scammy nature of the website, check out Bills trading record for the start of 2009 (post #7).
> 
> From examining the linked thread, I would put Bills R:R at 1:1 or *less*. I am starting to wonder how it's possible all of his students were trading sane risk levels of *1000 options with a $20,000 starting balance.
> 
> At first I was wondering how Bill had continued to trade like this without blowing up, but at $5,000 a pop to "train" in his "course", I no longer have any questions.




You (also) have no idea what you're talking about. You are making wild and incorrect  assumptions with only a small fraction of the story to go on. 

How do you feel about people who offer NOTHING BUT VIDEOS for 7k, 11k or more? I expect you are horrified! Now, take away any personal support and no talking at all with the instructor and you have the real value of what's out there. At least I care about my members and speak to them often for hours on end and help them all day long if they need it. 

You need to get out more buddy. If someone could show me how to make up to and over $2,000 a week (and in many case a day!) I'd pay them a HELL of a lot more than $5,000. Just because you're a cheap **** who wants everything for free doesn't mean the general population is the same. Some people can make value judgments, others can't. You clearly fall in the latter group. That's ok. Fine for you. Fortunately people value real information (not just theory) a little higher than you and this world can keep going around. God forbid you made the value judgments for us all...lol We'd all be working in factories cutting off fish heads for $5 an hour.


----------



## Trembling Hand

OneDayWealth said:


> Way more actually.




What like $300,000 for example?


----------



## prawn_86

OneDayWealth said:


> At least I care about my members and speak to them often for hours on end and help them all day long if they need it.
> .




I thought you said you couldnt offer personal advice. So how much time can you actually spend with them if they have a question?


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Pfft. You're trying to throw up a smokescreen Bill.
> 
> Apart from being nonsense, it doesn't take anything away from what I said, that your system has massive inappropriate delta risk and massive unnecessary contest risk.
> 
> Them's the inescapable facts.




I don't really care what you think Wayne, you are wrong, you don't know it all and you keep proving that to everyone. My record stands and you just can't stomach that someone out there knows how to put something together that you can't understand. You've made that clear. lol go away dude, you're getting boring.


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> I don't really care what you think Wayne, you are wrong, you don't know it all and you keep proving that to everyone. My record stands and you just can't stomach that someone out there knows how to put something together that you can't understand. You've made that clear. lol go away dude, you're getting boring.




Can't understand? 

Let's deal in mathematics Bill.

Prove to me mathematically that options, delta for delta, are not the least efficient means of daytrading.


----------



## OneDayWealth

prawn_86 said:


> I thought you said you couldnt offer personal advice. So how much time can you actually spend with them if they have a question?




Oh FOR ****S SAKE dude! Really? I told you I have never once told anyone when to get into or out of a trade. Does that mean I can't help them get the mechanics right? Or talking to them about how to set up their computer or pointing them to TA tubes or courses or a myriad of other ways I can help them. 

One minute I'm not helping, the next I'm helping to much...El Oh ****ing El!

Seriously? Get a grip. You're starting to look as stupid as the rest now. Have some self respect.


----------



## OneDayWealth

wayneL said:


> Can't understand?
> 
> Let's deal in mathematics Bill.
> 
> Prove to me mathematically that options, delta for delta, are not the least efficient means of daytrading.




Lol, you really are desperate now. How the **** could anyone answer that? if you're going to ask stupid questions like that then really dude, just go watch TV and do us all a favour.


----------



## nulla nulla

luke256 said:


> For you to have a defamation case you would need to have a reputation in the first place....which is questionable by the low class comments you have subjected ASF posters to (i.e I'll rip your ****ing head off).
> 
> LAW:
> "If the published material lowers the person's reputation in the eyes of members of the community".....i would argue you had no reputation to begin with.




Don't you also have to demonstrate the you have also suffered damages as a result of the alleged defamation? This would be hard to prove in respect of the ASF posts as Mr Stacy has already posted to the effect that people reading this thread have been only to happy to sign on for his course.....


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> Lol, you really are desperate now. How the **** could anyone answer that? if you're going to ask stupid questions like that then really dude, just go watch TV and do us all a favour.




I've already shown the inefficiencies mathematically. 

You say I'm wrong, but refuse to prove... actually, you tacitly say you can't prove it.

Which is true, you can't, because options are the least efficient means to daytrade.

Case closed unless you can prove otherwise.


----------



## sinner

OneDayWealth said:


> You (also) have no idea what you're talking about. You are making wild and incorrect  assumptions with only a small fraction of the story to go on.




Well gee Bill, we'd sure love to see audited broker statements that give the "full story to go on" (sic), but since onedaywealth.com no longer exists, I wonder where exactly I'd get the full story? Happy to eat my hat.



> How do you feel about people who offer NOTHING BUT VIDEOS for 7k, 11k or more? I expect you are horrified! Now, take away any personal support and no talking at all with the instructor and you have the real value of what's out there. At least I care about my members and speak to them often for hours on end and help them all day long if they need it.




Is this some sort of Stalin was better than Hitler argument? That's...actually...that's predictable from you Bill.



> You need to get out more buddy. If someone could show me how to make up to and over $2,000 a week (and in many case a day!) I'd pay them a HELL of a lot more than $5,000.




Ah yes, the crux of the issue. I must be a fool to not participate in the deal of a lifetime.




> Just because you're a cheap **** who wants everything for free doesn't mean the general population is the same.




Dear wayne and prawn, is this not a clear example of slander?



> Some people can make value judgments, others can't. You clearly fall in the latter group. That's ok. Fine for you. Fortunately people value real information (not just theory) a little higher than you and this world can keep going around. God forbid you made the value judgments for us all...lol We'd all be working in factories cutting off fish heads for $5 an hour.




Hilarious irony. You realise I'm responsible for maintaining the *real world* internet infrastructure you use every day, an actual service which allows "this world to keep going around" (sic)...a service I provide to the the Australian Government/Taxpayer after paying for my own *real information* education. 

Meanwhile, if you vanished tomorrow, who would notice Bill? A options bunch of MMs on the ASX might wonder where their cash cow has gone, but I doubt it. There is always another sucker, right?


----------



## OneDayWealth

This has got to stop now. You are just poking me with a stick now to wank yourselves for pleasure. I've said just about everything I could say. I day trade options. I've created a layout, some tools and a method that works. They are the facts. Get over it. 

I have a life to live - so have you. I've answered all your stupid (and some not so stupid) questions time and time again. I have other things to do. This is now beyond a joke.   

Believe me or not, I don't really care and nor does anyone else. My methods have stood the test of time and from the looks of it you can't... just can't believe that someone can come up with something new (not that 7 years of trading is new) so there's really no point in me just saying the same things over and over and over again. I have nothing more to prove here. 

It's been real...


----------



## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> This has got to stop now. You are just poking me with a stick now to wank yourselves for pleasure. I've said just about everything I could say. I day trade options. I've created a layout, some tools and a method that works. They are the facts. Get over it.
> 
> I have a life to live - so have you. I've answered all your stupid (and some not so stupid) questions time and time again. I have other things to do. This is now beyond a joke.
> 
> Believe me or not, I don't really care and nor does anyone else. My methods have stood the test of time and from the looks of it you can't... just can't believe that someone can come up with something new (not that 7 years of trading is new) so there's really no point in me just saying the same things over and over and over again. I have nothing more to prove here.
> 
> It's been real...




More sidestepping and unsubstantiated claims.

Is this a tacit admission that my contention is correct?


----------



## sinner

Bill Stacy Financial Innovation:

* Moving average signals
* Long options
* Trade with leverage
* Trade intraday
* Trade the least liquid market available

It's all so new! I can't keep up!


----------



## barney

This thread has been both interesting and at times amusing, but is now to the point of  becoming a bit sad  ....

I am neither pro-Bill nor anti-Bill ...... He has made claims ... his claims have been questioned by many traders .... some of those traders I have "unlimited' respect for

In all fairness to Bill (regardless of whether his methods seem good/sensible/rational etc etc)  ......

Can I offer the suggestion, that Bill, over the next few weeks, place some live trades (paper trading is fine with me, as long as the calls are made "at the time" ... the essence of the method will be shown regardless) ... 

.... so that a better understanding of his method can be assertained .....  

If the trades (lets say a minimum sample of 20 trades) stack up, and Bill makes money ... perhaps we should walk away and leave Bill to his business, and accept that Bill may have found an edge .....   

.... If the opposite happens and the trades are "noticeably" negative, maybe there is cause for further interogation ..... Whether that interrogation will prove anything useful is questionable from where I sit. 

Anyway, just a thought ... personally I don't really mind one way or the other ..... I personally don't trade options cause they write the rules in *Swahili*


----------



## basilio

Well Barney that was very creative !! Put up or shut !

It would be very interesting to see someone like Bill Stacy  demonstrate over a period of 3 months how effectively his system worked.  But frankly I just can't see it happening. If he was that good I do think he would be making money hand over fist himself.

But lets see if Bill is willing to offer some sort of objective practical proof of his system.


----------



## wayneL

Barney 

To me it's not about whether Bill is profitable or not. He very well could be, don't know, don't care really (but would be interesting to see some live trades).

My concern is twofold,

1/the massive position size 

2/massive contest risk

Lets look at the example several pages earlier where he purportedly trade 27 x 1000 share contracts = 27,000 shares of underlying, with a delta of approx 0.5 giving a total number of 13,500 deltas.

The bid ask spread is typically about 5 - 8 cents... lets say 5 cents to be generous. 

That is 27,000 x $0.05 = $1,350

This means that if the share did not move and he exited, it would have resulted in a $1,350 loss PLUS commission.

It also means that the underlying has to move > 10 cents just to break even (remember our 0.5 delta)

That's a massive impost to overcome in a daytrading system.

Now compare that to Shares or CFDs where to gain the same 13500 deltas, we only need 13500 shares with a spread of typically 1 cent.

That's $135 plus commission contest risk.

The options are 10 TIMES more expensive to trade in terms of contest risk.

Daytrading sytems, if positively expectant :, are not greatly so, because you never get huge outliers. 

They rely on trade frequency to make money.

Maybe Bill is a good enough trader to overcome 10x contest risk, maybe not, but are the people he teaches?

I would bet London to a brick and Mombasa to a melon that very very few can overcome this.

S you see it's not about Bill being profitable, it's about Bill teaching about the most inefficient day trading modality currently available... and charging money for it.


----------



## Trembling Hand

:iagree:


And that is the whole tread in a nutshell.


----------



## ColB

barney said:


> This thread has been both interesting and at times amusing, but is now to the point of  becoming a bit sad  ....
> 
> I am neither pro-Bill nor anti-Bill ...... He has made claims ... his claims have been questioned by many traders .... some of those traders I have "unlimited' respect for
> 
> In all fairness to Bill (regardless of whether his methods seem good/sensible/rational etc etc)  ......
> 
> *Can I offer the suggestion, that Bill, over the next few weeks, place some live trades (paper trading is fine with me, as long as the calls are made "at the time" ... the essence of the method will be shown regardless) ...
> 
> .... so that a better understanding of his method can be assertained .....*
> 
> If the trades (lets say a minimum sample of 20 trades) stack up, and Bill makes money ... perhaps we should walk away and leave Bill to his business, and accept that Bill may have found an edge .....
> 
> .... If the opposite happens and the trades are "noticeably" negative, maybe there is cause for further interogation ..... Whether that interrogation will prove anything useful is questionable from where I sit.
> 
> Anyway, just a thought ... personally I don't really mind one way or the other ..... I personally don't trade options cause they write the rules in *Swahili*




Barney, you have made your request in the most polite fashion and the silence is deafening.  The irony being that in various different ways Bill has been asked the same question fror the last 2 years and has only posted up one trade which occured in 2009.  He will tell you he has nothing to prove and more than likely insult you to for asking!!!


----------



## mazzatelli

mazzatelli said:


> ... I was after some indication of the  performance of the system (MA) but you've already said you don't test systems  beyond paper trading.






OneDayWealth said:


> No, it's virtually impossible to back test live options day trading. *Experience is gained via real live paper trading*. I haven't changed my MAs for over 4 years. They have stood the test of time. *I've never bothered calculating win%, loss% or peak to trough drawdown.* never needed to. I only do what works and has worked for me over the years.* Some play with stats while others just get down to trading.* I'm the latter. I've got a life.






OneDayWealth said:


> lol, now you're scraping and twisting my words. That's not what I said  at all. Read before you speak. You're embarrassing yourself.




More sidestepping bs. You've no idea how your system performs and p..a..lease; a moving avg system??



			
				sinner said:
			
		

> If you look at the first page of the thread our friend Bill claims $2,000-5,000 profit per week from a $20,000 starting balance.




Who cares when he has windfall days from a trading operation yielding $85,000! pg 10 of following article
http://thegiveawaycenter.com/gifts/2xmethod/2X_Method_by_Bill_Stacy_GA.pdf


----------



## wayneL

mazzatelli said:


> Who cares when he has windfall days from a trading operation yielding $85,000! pg 10 of following article
> http://thegiveawaycenter.com/gifts/2xmethod/2X_Method_by_Bill_Stacy_GA.pdf






> Visit the official website:
> http://www.2XMethod.com




Services for this domain have been discontinued.


----------



## nulla nulla

wayneL said:


> Barney
> 
> To me it's not about whether Bill is profitable or not. He very well could be, don't know, don't care really (but would be interesting to see some live trades).
> 
> My concern is twofold,
> 
> 1/the massive position size
> 
> 2/massive contest risk
> 
> Lets look at the example several pages earlier where he purportedly trade 27 x 1000 share contracts = 27,000 shares of underlying, with a delta of approx 0.5 giving a total number of 13,500 deltas.
> 
> The bid ask spread is typically about 5 - 8 cents... lets say 5 cents to be generous.
> 
> That is 27,000 x $0.05 = $1,350
> 
> This means that if the share did not move and he exited, it would have resulted in a $1,350 loss PLUS commission.
> 
> It also means that the underlying has to move > 10 cents just to break even (remember our 0.5 delta)
> 
> That's a massive impost to overcome in a daytrading system.
> 
> Now compare that to Shares or CFDs where to gain the same 13500 deltas, we only need 13500 shares with a spread of typically 1 cent.
> 
> That's $135 plus commission contest risk.
> 
> The options are 10 TIMES more expensive to trade in terms of contest risk.
> 
> Daytrading sytems, if positively expectant :, are not greatly so, because you never get huge outliers.
> 
> They rely on trade frequency to make money.
> 
> Maybe Bill is a good enough trader to overcome 10x contest risk, maybe not, but are the people he teaches?
> 
> I would bet London to a brick and Mombasa to a melon that very very few can overcome this.
> 
> S you see it's not about Bill being profitable, it's about Bill teaching about the most inefficient day trading modality currently available... and charging money for it.






Thank you wayneL.

This has to be one of your best posts ever. Clearly setting out the structure, associated costs and risks of day trading options. 

IMO not an arena for the beginner or those with a preference for low risk. One of the reasons I am happy to stick to trading shares.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Maybe an interesting precedent,






> ASIC found that statements made by Mr Wilson, who is from Hervey Bay, and the two companies in marketing the software were misleading and deceptive. These statements included:
> “Writing covered calls is the same as ‘Share Rental’ or renting out real estate”;
> *“Options trading is easy”; and*
> “Returns of 5-10 per cent per month and 60-120 per cent per year can consistently be achieved through use of Lifestyle Options – Share Rental”




http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/11-161AD+ASIC+accepts+‘Aussie+Rob’+EU?openDocument


----------



## TeleSonic

That scenario will play out over the next 12 months I imagine. Lots more to be written about Lifestyle Trader, the people who ran it, and ICS / Alpha who have taken it on. The misleading advertising will be the least of their concerns I'm tipping.....

Bill isn't licensed and hadn't been for months according to him. He shouldn't be selling DVD's, teaching, mentoring, or assisting with "mechanics". The definition of financial product advice is so broad that even his posts here could be construed as unlicensed advice. Has he influenced someone to take a position in a financial instrument? You can argue about the success of his intentions, but the intention is there non the less. 

He's also been a bit mischievious in answering questions about his AR status. If he was to be straight down the line he would have said he isn't licensed at all. Some of his statements have been quiet ambiguous, almost as if to leave the door open to supporting his existing clients, or making the odd DVD sale. 
_
"I'm listed as general"

"I can't give personal advice without a questionnaire"

"I am licensed when I speak"_

Bill isn't licensed that's the bottom line. As a consumer you don't have any of the protection or mechanisms in place to assist you should you have a complaint. You'll be stuck with the Office of Fair Trading or worse still having to take your own civil action.


----------



## TeleSonic

From another "licensed" entity selling a covered call strategy...

_Also referred to as 'Share Renting', the Covered Call strategy has become one of the most popular strategies for share investors.

Managed effectively, the smart investor can 'enhance' their returns no matter what direction the markets are trading. In fact, if you own shares and are not adopting the Covered Call strategy, then you are effectively missing out on 'rent' you could be receiving for shares that you own._

ASIC obviously can't even police entities they license, let alone those they don't...


----------



## wayneL

I like Daryl Guppy's approach:

E.G.


> Guppytraders.com (ACN 089 941 560) Pty Ltd is not a licensed investment advisor. Tutorials in Applied Technical Analysis, which is generally available to the public, falls under the ASIC Media Advice provisions. The analysis notes are based on our experience of applying technical analysis to the market and are designed to be used as a tutorial showing how technical analysis can be applied to a chart example based on recent trading data. The newsletter is a tool to assist you in your personal judgment. It is not designed to replace your Licensed Financial Consultant or your Stockbroker. It is been prepared without regard to any particular person's investment objectives, financial situation and particular needs because readers come from diverse backgrounds, with diverse objectives and financial situations. This information is of a general nature only so readers should seek advice from their broker or other investment advisors as appropriate before taking any action. The decision to trade and the method of trading is for the reader alone to decide. The author and publisher expressly disclaim all and any liability to any person, whether the purchase of this publication or not, in respect of anything and of the consequences of any thing done or omitted to be done by any such person in reliance, whether whole or partial, upon the whole or any part of the contents of this publication. Neither Guppytraders.com Pty Limited nor its officers, employees and agents, will be liable for any loss or damage incurred by any person directly or indirectly as a result of reliance on the information contained in this publication. This is not a newsletter of stock tips. Case study trades are notional but analysed in real time on a weekly basis.




Doesn't claim to be licensed and structures his business accordingly.

<ETA> Although looks as though he is now, or uses licensed guys.


----------



## TeleSonic

wayneL said:


> I like Daryl Guppy's approach:
> 
> E.G.
> 
> 
> Doesn't claim to be licensed and structures his business accordingly.
> 
> <ETA> Although looks as though he is now, or uses licensed guys.




Never looked at his site until today. I am surprised that he isn't licensed however when you consider the definition of financial product advice;

_(1)  For the purposes of this Chapter, financial product advice means a recommendation or a statement of opinion, or a report of either of those things, that:

                     (a)  is intended to influence a person or persons in making a decision in relation to a particular financial product or class of financial products, or an interest in a particular financial product or class of financial products; or

                     (b)  could reasonably be regarded as being intended to have such an influence._

And then this from his product page;

_The regular TRADING section introduces the essentials you need to know about trading. It includes the ABC of the ASX which shows how trading opportunities are identified and evaluated. This section explores trading styles, prediction and probability._

I think it's drawing a long bow to state that they are exempt based on the media exemption. That's usually reserved for print / radio / TV where the provision of financial services is not their main business activity, and it is available freely to the public. I.E financial commentators on TV, or even advertising on this website. This is a situation where they are teaching people how to identify trading opportunities on the ASX, and charging for it as their main business activity. 

I'm not making a judgement on the quality of his service or products, just commenting on their licensing situation.


----------



## wayneL

I have no idea to what extent the ASIC rules cover "education" and what you've written seems pretty clear.

But as I heard it explained, so long as none of the examples were current ie at least a week old it was OK. IOW a person could not construe the example as a recommendation  to buy or sell.

What is the situation if a person writes a book on Tech analysis or whatever?


----------



## TeleSonic

I think the corporations act is very clear. The definitions are very broad and deliberately written so. It becomes grey in its interpretation, enabling ASIC to use its discretion.

I've made a complaint to ASIC before regarding an unlicensed software vendor. The software gave buy and sell signals on FX, and was being sold for $3,000. The response I got from asic is below;

_Dear Mr Hamilton Thank you for your email.
Share trading software is not classed as a financial product. I have attached some website links which have some more information for you to have a look at. The website addresses are: http://www.fido.gov.au/fido/fido.ns...+currency+and+financial+products?openDocument and also http://www.fido.gov.au/fido/fido.nsf/byheadline/The+six+rules+of+day+trading+systems

Due to the unique nature of each enquiry ASIC is not able to provide interpretations or recommendations specific to some enquiries or circumstances. If you require further information please seek independent advice through an ASIC registered agent, your accountant or solicitor.

Yours sincerely

Susan Morgan
Customer Service Consultant, Enquiries
Stakeholder Services
1300 300 630_

There you go, software is fine!! Blew me away.... My response was;

_Thanks Susan

I'm really quite confused as to what constitutes financial product advice. You say that share trading software is not a financial product (and therefore doesn't require the distributor to hold an AFSL), however in my due dillegence I have found reference to a company ASIC prosecuted in 2008 (Oxford Investments Pty Ltd) for providing unlicensed financial product advice via an Excel Spreadsheet. 

If the software (or training / instruction / signals) influences the recepient to trade is that not a statement or opinion or recommendation under the defenition of financial product advice contained in ASIC guidelines? I am looking at another FX signal provider and they do have an AFSL number, and have told me that I should only work with someone who has an AFSL number.

Obviously I put more weight in your comments and if the ASIC rules have changed since you prosecuted Oxford Investments Pty Ltd then it opens the possibility of working with an unlicensed FX educator / signal provider. 

I've included the article I found online for your reference. Can you point me to the parts of the ASIC legislation that outlines who does and who doesn't require a license?

Thanks

Brett_

Now the truth of the matter is I wasn't interested in either service, but I was interested to see them chase up an unlicensed vendor. I received another reply to this email but it was identical to the first one. Disappointing...


----------



## TeleSonic

wayneL said:


> What is the situation if a person writes a book on Tech analysis or whatever?




Yeah good point. Someone writes a book explaining how CFD's work, the benefits of using them over physical equities, and some basic trading strategies including entries and exits. I would certainly regard that as having the potential to influence someone to trade. 

But I imagine this is where ASIC exercise their discretion. There may even be a specific section of the corporations act that deals with books & authors, however I haven't been able to find it. What about if I wrote an e-book once a week? What about one a day? At what point is a communication a "book", as opposed to a "statement of opinion"? Is there even a difference?


----------



## McLovin

I had a quick look at the Oxford judgement. There is nothing in there to indicate the prosecution was for providing software.

It was to do with the courses, and several misleading statements about how much money Steven Moore claimed to be making by trading.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s...0&synonyms=0&query=title(oxford investments )

ETA: I would love to know the theory behind being able to code in C++ making you exempt from requiring an AFSL.


----------



## wayneL

TeleSonic said:


> Yeah good point. Someone writes a book explaining how CFD's work, the benefits of using them over physical equities, and some basic trading strategies including entries and exits. I would certainly regard that as having the potential to influence someone to trade.
> 
> But I imagine this is where ASIC exercise their discretion. There may even be a specific section of the corporations act that deals with books & authors, however I haven't been able to find it. What about if I wrote an e-book once a week? What about one a day? At what point is a communication a "book", as opposed to a "statement of opinion"? Is there even a difference?




Then we'd have the problem of jurisdiction.

What if the author lived in NZ or Canada or USA or..... Nigeria? ::

What if the website shuckster lived and hosted in some other jurisdiction and marketed it to Aussies?


----------



## TeleSonic

McLovin said:


> I had a quick look at the Oxford judgement. There is nothing in there to indicate the prosecution was for providing software.
> 
> It was to do with the courses, and several misleading statements about how much money Steven Moore claimed to be making by trading.
> 
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s...0&synonyms=0&query=title(oxford investments )




I haven't seen that before, I only had the ASIC media release. It didn't go into as much detail as this judgement. I'm pretty sure that there would have been no course or misleading statements without the software. Are you suggesting that if he'd only provided the software without instruction he would have escaped prosecution for carrying on a financial services business without an AFSL? It's an interesting point to consider. Perhaps software on it's own is fine, it's only when teaching others how to use it that you satisfy the definition of financial product advice? 



McLovin said:


> ETA: I would love to know the theory behind being able to code in C++ making you exempt from requiring an AFSL.




There's a 1300 number for Susan Morgan if you want to have a chat with her!


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## TeleSonic

wayneL said:


> Then we'd have the problem of jurisdiction.
> 
> What if the author lived in NZ or Canada or USA or..... Nigeria? ::
> 
> What if the website shuckster lived and hosted in some other jurisdiction and marketed it to Aussies?




I think there are many Aussies who have or are running offshore to avoid ASIC regulation in many areas, including financial services. I imagine it is up to the authorities in the applicable jurisdiction to apply the law of the land, and in most cases that is much less onerous than what we face here. If it was serious enough you'd hope ASIC would alert the appropriate foreign entity, and there would be some co-operation.

At the end of the day, it is impossible to protect people from themselves. There is always someone naive or greedy enough to fall for anything that comes across their desktop or lands in their inbox.


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## TeleSonic

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/99-268.pdf/$file/99-268.pdf

ASIC accepts EU from Paritech not to distribute OmniTrader until it obtains AFSL. 

Now it's an old judgement (1999), but it mentions Policy Statement 118 regarding investment advice and dealing through computer software and the internet. No corresponding regulatory guide exists now however... 

Hey I love screen time, so I'll just keep searching for an answer!


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## McLovin

TeleSonic said:


> Are you suggesting that if he'd only provided the software without instruction he would have escaped prosecution for carrying on a financial services business without an AFSL?




I'm only going on what I see. 



			
				Telesonic said:
			
		

> Now it's an old judgement (1999), but it mentions Policy Statement 118 regarding investment advice and dealing through computer software and the internet. No corresponding regulatory guide exists now however...




It's very old. The Corporations Act came into existence in 2001.


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## TeleSonic

I believe the answer was in the Oxford judgement you provided all along McLovin. 

_It is not to the point that the defendants did not advise a client as to particular transactions, as for example whether to buy, sell or hold a particular security. It is sufficient that their system would "influence" such a decision, in the sense of making available information, and a system of analysing that information, which would be seen by a recipient as relevant to the making of a decision._

This is Judge Herrey's interpretation of the act. This judgement was handed down in 2008, so it is recent and relevant.


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## TeleSonic

I believe the answer was in the Oxford judgement you provided all along McLovin. 

_It is not to the point that the defendants did not advise a client as to particular transactions, as for example whether to buy, sell or hold a particular security. It is sufficient that their system would "influence" such a decision, in the sense of making available information, and a system of analysing that information, which would be seen by a recipient as relevant to the making of a decision._


And from the ASIC media release;

_Electronic delivery of financial products is a rapidly growing and convenient method of providing consumers with information on, and access to, goods and services. 

The Federal Court’s decision demonstrates however, the breadth of the definition of financial advice, and the broad range of activities which this definition will cover, including the development and application of software designed to help an investor make an investment decision. _

This is Judge Herrey's interpretation of the act. This judgement was handed down in 2008, so it is recent and relevant.


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## McLovin

I've only skimmed through the judgement but this paragraph may indicate that simply providing a software package is not in itself financial advice...



> _22 In the present case there has been, first, an expression of opinion that, in specified circumstances arising from a particular kind of market analysis, trading in a particular way is likely to be profitable. Secondly, there is the provision of technical aids that assist in identifying those circumstances from day to day. *The combined effect is the provision of financial product advice* within the meaning of the statute._




Bolding mine.

It still is difficult to see how ASIC arrived at the answer they gave you. Surely any marketing material used by the software vendor would satisfy the first requirement, with the actual software satisfying the second.


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## TeleSonic

I don't think the left hand knows that the right hand is doing at ASIC McLovin. They suffered some big budget cuts a couple of years ago, and they are very fragmented with different offices, teams, depts, etc. 

At that first level my complaint went to i'm guessing they just acknowledge the complaint, provide some very generic commentary, and point you to some resources. I think it would need to be very serious, or be one of many like complaints, before the desk jocky escalates it to someone who knows what they're doing.


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## wayneL

So our friend Bill has logged in since nailing down the mathematics of the diabolical contest risk he teaches people to take on, but has nothing to say.  Not even to call us all names. :

Chalk up another one for ASF in exposing poor financial education.

Bill played hard, but still got the wooden spoon... mathematics wins every time.


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## Sir Osisofliver

Just Finished reading the thread. That was freakin hilarious.

Just so everyone is is clear about a few things....

Most know I am rg146 compliant. I'm an LR (licensee representative) not an AR. So you won't find me on ASIC registry, merely the company that holds the AFSL. 

Part of my many duties is as a professional educator. I travel nationallly and internationally delivering financial education under an RTO. (registered training organisation). This carries an additional compliance burden. I am TAE qualified in addition to my LR status. I must maintain my teaching qual as well as my cpd's. The education I deliver is both award (qualification outcome) and non award but aligned to aqtf guidelines and corresponds to ISO reporting standards.

I've lectured for the ASX, SDIA and Kaplan

Some of the stuff I teach has a relatively hefty price tag $15,000 for example but this results in a qualification and is covered by vet fee help.

I'd merely like to point out that anyone serious about financial education should probably try and do so within the existing educational framework. For anyone considering spending several thousand dollars on a course, some of the questions you should ask that have not yet been mentioned should include:

Is this course delivered under an RTO? If not,
Does it align to aqtf non award principles?
Will I receive a certificate of attendance?

Professional education use the nationally recognized training symbol.

If it has that symbol as a student you have rights under federal legislation.

Cheers

Sir O


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## Vicki

Hi Bill,

So I assume you're still making a consistent profit day-trading options?

I also assume, that although you may have other business interests, the above is still a major source of income for you?

Would it be to much to ask what your last couple of tax returns looked like [whole financial year], perhaps a couple of past years also.

I'm not so much asking what you make in other ventures, but rather, what you can declare as total profit, from trading options, and of course, what total amount of money you had available to back up your trades?

So...May we have a peek with your consent?

I don't think anyone is looking for zillions, just a healthy consistent flow of profit, derived from a particular sized trading bank.

You still trade don't you?

I'd got the Impression you were leaning more toward multi level marketing ventures these days?....Something I think I read from you, that was a better/safer risk than options.

Anyway, If options really do work for you, then perhaps just show us what you've declared to the ATO.

Kind Regards,
                  Vicki


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## Vicki

P.s. Also excluding any money earnt working at Olympic Dam [mines].


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## tech/a

Vicki
The world is full of self serving sleaze buckets.

This has and does really effect you---we can all see it.

It seems to me your really mad at yourself for letting this guy past your guard.
Stop paying the price you seem to think he needs to pay.
Every sleaze bucket has to lead their own miserable life.

Get on with yours and move past it.


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## Vicki

Thanks Tech,

Yes I am moving on best I can with 3 kids.

You're right about being annoyed at letting someone like the above mentioned, get the better of you, and once more they're good at it [Bill's a nonce compared to the slicker types, such as Andrew Dimitri & friends, who'd never be stupid enough to tango on here!]...Hence It's taken you all to bring Bill to heal....And predictably, he came off second best.

Just think I we owe it to the minions, who read this, to make a clear example of what to watch out for.
And after revizing the posts from ASF members, think you all have done a good job of that.

From trade Mathematics that were over my head, to legal points with regard to Financial Educators.

Even if this thread saves just one Family from wrack & ruin It'll be worth it.
But somehow, I think you guys can take the credit for saving many more than that.

I think this thread will go on to serve as a beacon of truth, for those in doubt.

Kind Regards,
                  Vicki


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## OneDayWealth

Vicki you really are a very sad little girl. You can spew, vomit and chunder about it all day long but I know the facts and the facts are that you ignored all our warnings, all our guides and all our methods and in reality what you did had very little (if at all) to do with what we were teaching, showing and advising. You seem to have forgotton that in order to look good among you (even sadder) fans on here; but that's cool. You got what you deserved for ignoring everything that we told you to do and let's be honest... for putting your family and it's financial future in harm's way. You did all this to yourself and no amount of spin or lying is going to help you forget how much damage you did to yourself by being so casual and gun ho with your trading. It's very clear to me and everyone who knows the facts of what _really_ happened that you are the only one responsible for your actions and your losses. Grow up, no one cares for your lies anymore.

And just to prove that you have no idea what you are talking about and just trying to be a little smart **** I have never worked at Olympic Dam. Get a life.


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## wayneL

OneDayWealth said:


> ....you forget how much damage you did to yourself...




Oh the irony!

I never thought you'd show up here again after the humiliation dished out to you.

Come on Bill, not withstanding whether Vicki did or didn't follow your "rules", we have already proven with simple mathematics that:


Your method is the worst way to daytrade
Promotes the most appalling contest risk imaginable
Ergo, is not worth a pinch of camel dung

Give it a rest mate, the jury has delivered their verdict a long time ago now.


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## prawn_86

Bill is keeping this thread updated to keep it up the top of Google. I like it


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## Vicki

prawn_86 said:


> Bill is keeping this thread updated to keep it up the top of Google. I like it




He sure is.
                Yawn..
Bill, you and Andrew actively encouraged people to play with derivatives like it was childs play, and even a good idea for a living lol.

When some people started to ask basic risk control Q's, such as, how much in ratio should your trades be in relation to your bank etc, I remember someone doing a little math on risk & viability of the whole thing.

And after feilding [dodging] several direct questions, you squirmed and gave a silly answer, and flip-flopped around.

I know a person who has spoken Mr Dimitri directly on the phone, and was a little annoyed that he didn't want to re-submit earlier material on the subject, refering to risk, also with this.. QUOTE "The proffessionals are just plain wrong. and here's why!" etc. etc.

Jeez, you were party to a group, that openly encouraged people to..MORTGAGE THEIR HOMES!!!!!.

And even had a finance guy who helped facilitate this....someone I spoke too.

haha, with what I've learnt about trading options, whether it be spreads or otherwise, there's no way I could ever live with myself, encouraging people to mortgage their homes to gamble..sorry.. trade!

Now....You're iether silly or sad, or just plain corrupt!   choose one lol.

You want to start throwing insults around, well there's just a couple of facts for you..you can take it as being smug?
I don't care.

Again.....May I ask with your consent, some sort of proof, of your "consistant" profits trading options?

A Document from your tax files might suffice.

But...Of course.... you can't?

If I was the 'real deal' you purport to being, and was squeaky clean in every respect.
I would proudly display to all, my financial records for a couple of years.

As I would be proud to practice what I preach, and be showing others etc.

But..Alas, for whatever excuse you put up...You just plain can't do it..hmmmm.

Bill...I believe you are a fraud, and the general public should be warned about having any dealings with you.

Again..Put up..Or shut up!...simple.

Kind regards,
                    Vicki
p.s. A little word of advice, there's a chance you've ticked-off the wrong group of people, so in future, please keep you're posts factual, and leave out the insults.As every word is being kept on file.


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## minwa

Bill's new forum: http://www.the2xclub.com/forum/

I was given his daytrading course for free a few Christmas back. Most of the videos was spent on setting up charts. No risk management strategies were taught, not even stop losses. The method is pure price action and was simple. But trading ASX options is pure foolishness with the slippage involved.


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## FIGJAM

Read a few of the pages here and a few comments, but I just want to through a thought out in the wind. I'll also state by saying I am not affiliated with this Bill bloke in any way shape or form, rather in the past I purchased the Sharelord course, but that another story.

But for some people couldn't using equity from your house your house or any other technique be a smart move, if you have a firm understanding of the strategies that you employ, understand the risk that you are taking to the reward that you may receive and finally if you are half good and successful at trading?

I am just thinking it might be a good way to increase your bank and allow you to trade more and generate more income from your trades.

Just a thought.


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## Julia

Figjam, have a read of this thread.  You will see some of the disaster that can occur as a result of using the equity in the family home.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13176&highlight=Storm+Financial


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## cynic

Julia said:


> Figjam, have a read of this thread.  You will see some of the disaster that can occur as a result of using the equity in the family home.
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13176&highlight=Storm+Financial




+1

To advise inexperienced newcomers to engage the market with borrowed money is tantamount to the reckless endangerment of the welfare (financial and emotional) of their subjects. Given that many such promoters also quote an AFSL number, this maverick behaviour also damages the reputation of the financial services industry in general. I am not a great fan of laws that inhibit people's freedom of choice, but do believe that more could be done to protect newcomers from the unscrupulous behaviour of these dream merchants.


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## wayneL

+1,000,000,000,000,000


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## FIGJAM

^^ all that has been said I certainly don't doubt. My only point is in theory it's not a bad idea. Theory and practicality is two different things though.

I'm a beginner and I stay away from CFDs and couldn't image taking out cash against the house (which I am yet to buy) to trade with.


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## jimbowan

I finished reading this thread the other day and didn't feel I needed to add anything. However I am reading "Come into my trading room" by Dr Elder and this passage made me almost immediately think of Bill so thought I should share!

_Language is a reflection of thought, and if a guy cannot write clearly, his thinking probably isn't too clear either. _


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## Kittykat

jimbowan said:


> I finished reading this thread the other day and didn't feel I needed to add anything. However I am reading "Come into my trading room" by Dr Elder and this passage made me almost immediately think of Bill so thought I should share!
> 
> _Language is a reflection of thought, and if a guy cannot write clearly, his thinking probably isn't too clear either. _




Just an update on one of Bills friends.  Andrew Dimitri is back after his Planet Wealth shut down last year, amazing how such a"successful strategy website, blogs and ebook empire can just disappear! Like the money of some subscribers

So where is he ? Look for theintelligenttrader.com   The latest website has no dimitri strategy, flash dimitri selfies or boasts about the incredible "andrew dimitri" but you will find fake testimonials from his wife under her maiden name  - its not joanna dimitri but Joanna cowley who extolls the virtues of the intelligent trader!  Well if ya wife doesn't think you are great who will ? 
Beware this guy is slick and ready to take the money of the people he sees as plebs, thats us people! we are all plebs and lesser to the e scam master that is Andrew Dimitri ( thats how he sees it anyway )


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## alex23

Wow,

I remember reading this thread back in the day when it first started on a rainy afternoon popcorn in hand laughing my ass off. Couldn't post at the time cos account had to be approved or something? Anyways.. I've been on the options learning quest on and off since then and with a stock trading background its easy to see straight through bs lol. What is interesting is if you look at his linkedin profile he calls himself a "financial entertainer" LOL (think he finally got it right).. just google his name and its the first result and then its this thread.

But seriously, speaking as a novice isn't day trading options for a miniscule 20cent spread or whatever the most idiotic thing ever? I mean day trading STOCK is hard enough as it is but those brutal bid/ask spreads would make this down right impossible even if good 'ol bill could accurately predict and time stocks like he claims he can with this method.

The only option trading I bother with these days is buying deep in the money calls/puts with at least 6-12 months till exp on stocks I don't wanna buy outright and selling puts on stocks I'm looking to possibly buy anyway.

As for tax statements? Let's face it, when was the last time a newsletter writer, subscription service or educator ever agreed to provide UNQUESTIONABLE PROOF of thier claims with trades done in real money over a set period of time. If Bill could provide this he would be one of the most talented traders in Australia.. who else earns $28,000 an hour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLi9eiNK-L0  and still bothers designing LOGO's for $100 on the side (still overpriced lol): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOFHU2-AK-k


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## alex23

For those that haven't had the pleasure, here's Mr Bill in action teaching his huge audience of 2 people (maybe 3) how to trade put spreads.. serious lulz in part 3.. I'm no expert but 5k a month from a 20k bank?? Sounds right? 

http://vimeo.com/1895018 (part 1)
http://vimeo.com/1895058 (part 2)
http://vimeo.com/1895079 (part 3)

Enjoy!


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## dead trader

Just thought I'd share my experience with Bill Stacy and his joke of a "trading course"...

I was probably around 19 or so when I came across Bill Stacy though Planet Wealth. I came cross PW through Jamie McIntyre. JM, AD, and BS are all wolves in sheeps clothing.

Promise the world and don't deliver. Of course, no one who has reasonable intelligence should expect the world to be delivered to them on a silver platter.

Anyway, I was a naive and stupid person back then, still am to a certain extent, but having done the One Day Wealth thing, I can honestly say it's not worth it. You can buy some good books instead.

I would stay away from options or any kind of derivatives investing, especially if you are going to trade options using Bill's method. He says to use a $20,000 amount for EACH trade. CRAZY, if you ask me. Brokerage and slippage...

He has no concerns about risk. (!)

His character is questionable, and it's his slick marketing webpage (you can search for it on Google - it's been archived or something) that reels all the newbies in...

I would stay away from this man. Don't touch him with a 10,000 foot pole.

Just my 2 cents.


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## richkid11

I have had a great experience with Bill Stacy through his course: http://www.ultimatemoneymindset.com/

He is a great man and I literally am a rich kid now thanks to Bill.

Please don't listen to anything these people. They are wrong about him. Very wrong!


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## cynic

richkid11 said:


> I have had a great experience with Bill Stacy through his course: http://www.ultimatemoneymindset.com/
> 
> He is a great man and I literally am a rich kid now thanks to Bill.
> 
> Please don't listen to anything these people. They are wrong about him. Very wrong!




That's great to know. 

However, when assessing the merits of any particular educational offering, differentiation between conflicting testimonies can be problematic, particularly when so many other educators have tarnished the image of this industry by overpromising and underdelivering.

Perhaps some audited broker statements and tax returns could help to resolve the question of whom to believe.


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## wayneL

richkid11 said:


> I have had a great experience with Bill Stacy through his course: http://www.ultimatemoneymindset.com/
> 
> He is a great man and I literally am a rich kid now thanks to Bill.
> 
> Please don't listen to anything these people. They are wrong about him. Very wrong!




Yet another laughable 1 post testimony.

Get real Bill this is tiresome.


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## Porper

richkid11 said:


> I have had a great experience with Bill Stacy through his course: http://www.ultimatemoneymindset.com/
> 
> He is a great man and I literally am a rich kid now thanks to Bill.
> 
> Please don't listen to anything these people. They are wrong about him. Very wrong!




If you want to pump up your course you need to do better than that. Those four sentences are like something out of the Benny Hill show. Gave some of us a laugh anyway.


----------

