# Pattern day trading rules in US



## mjim (14 September 2016)

Do pattern day trading rules apply for 
Futures only trading ( Index / Commodity and Currency)
Options on Futures ( Index / Commodity and Currency)

IB say following but does not expressly say if it applies to Futures or not?
I mean futures traders scalp all the time with small a/c!

Pattern Day trading rules apply to the following products:

US Stocks, US Stock and Index Options, US Warrants, US T-Bills, US Bonds, or US Single Stock Futures


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## tech/a (14 September 2016)

mjim said:


> Do pattern day trading rules apply for
> Futures only trading ( Index / Commodity and Currency)
> Options on Futures ( Index / Commodity and Currency)
> 
> ...




My understanding is that this applies to Stock Traders.

I've been trading futures for years and so have many others with IB with no issues.
Way over 6% of my capital


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## minwa (14 September 2016)

tech/a said:


> My understanding is that this applies to Stock Traders.




Yeah, equities only.


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## mjim (15 September 2016)

minwa said:


> Yeah, equities only.




This is what I got when I called IB
Futures only no PDT applies no matter if it is cash or margin a/c
Stock: The PDT only applies to Margin a/c and does not come in to picture with Cash a/c
logic being the stock trades are settled in T+3 so 
Option : PDT applies to margin a/c only not to cash A/c
However Options settled in T+1
SO for example: if you have $10000 in account day trade a Option buy for $1000 and Sell for $1200 say in first half of the day or in fist hrs whatever the $1200 is not available for T+1 
Not sure I understand the logic ... key differential seems to be CASH or Martign T a/c
My main interets in Futures and Options on Futures  and ability to day trade without the $25K restriction
Futures no problems but OPtions on Futures and PDT rules? I am confused

If you have min 25K all this does not come in to picture


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## minwa (15 September 2016)

mjim said:


> My main interets in Futures and Options on Futures  and ability to day trade without the $25K restriction
> Futures no problems but OPtions on Futures and PDT rules? I am confused
> 
> If you have min 25K all this does not come in to picture




You are fine. Options on futures is part of futures market while options on equities is part of equities market.  Stay in futures and you are excluded.


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