# Is there an Airline Ombudsman? Jetstar does it again!



## The Mint Man (16 October 2008)

Hi guys,
Just wondering if there is an Airline Ombudsman or anyone else who fields complaints about this industry?

Long story short, Jetstar has really pissed me off  
Originally we had straight through flights from Sydney to the Whitsunday Coast (Proserpine) and visa versa on the way back.... Anyway today we get a call today saying that they are putting in stopovers at Brisbane there and back, with a 4 hour wait in between flights... OK thats an inconvenience but I suppose I could handle it... 
But then, get this, they say 'oh on the way back your flight is leaving from Hamilton Island now, not Proserpine'....
Of course the first thing that comes to mind is that Hamilton Island is off the mainland which means that not only is it further out of our way but we will also have to catch a boat across to Hamilton, which costs money, $106 in fact.

I asked the person from Jetstar if I could have their customer relations number only to be told that they don't have one, either that or they can't give it out. Where does this leave customers?

Surely they can't get away with this so easily? I sure as hell am not going to let them!!!

If I can cause them even half the trouble they are trying to cause me during my upcoming holidays then that would make me happy.

Thank you for your help in advance guys, much appreciated.

Cheers

*Don't Do it, Don't fly Jetstar*​Magda Szubanski eat your heart out.


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## Pommiegranite (16 October 2008)

The Mint Man said:


> Hi guys,
> Just wondering if there is an Airline Ombudsman or anyone else who fields complaints about this industry?
> 
> Long story short, Jetstar has really pissed me off
> ...




Only ever flown 3 times with Jetstar:

1st - Flight delayed by 2 hours
2nd - Flight delayed by 2 hours and bags lost
3rd - Flight delays by 4 hours and ugly stewardesses

Never again.


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## prawn_86 (16 October 2008)

Airlines are pricks in general.

I know of no ombudsman unfortunately.

Good luck


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## Smurf1976 (16 October 2008)

The attitude is why I won't fly with Jetstar. They seem to actually like seeing people miss flights through no fault of their own or otherwise be left stranded with nowhere to go. 

This sort of nonsense is alarmingly common with them - they seem to know no limits as far as messing people about is concerned. Intentionally delaying passengers for more than a day is their worst habit and it makes the whole trip pointless if you're going to watch sport, attend a family gathering etc.

The classic one would have to be that person (reported in the media at the time) who flew Hobart to Adelaide. Bottom line is that they couldn't get there in time to meet the 30 minute check in deadline for the flight back - and the two flights were booked a few days apart. And no, it wasn't due to weather etc.


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## dubiousinfo (16 October 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> The attitude is why I won't fly with Jetstar. .




Ditto here.  I absolutely refuse to fly Jetstar. I dont care what the offer is, or what the price is, I just wont fly with them. Their attitude to paying customers is simply atrocious.


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## moXJO (16 October 2008)

I have flown with them 3 times as well. All 3 times were very bad experiences. Even the final days of flying Anset were better by far. How on earth they stay in business is beyond me. Everyone I know has nothing good to say about them.


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## GreatPig (16 October 2008)

moXJO said:


> Everyone I know has nothing good to say about them



Well just so you'll know someone, I've flown with them 3 or 4 times and never had any problems at all. My wife's flown with them on a couple of other occasions as well, and she copped one return flight delayed till the next day, but they were put up in a good hotel with vouchers for food plus two $100 discount vouchers for future flights (which we've used).

Those were all international flights though.

GP


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## moXJO (16 October 2008)

GreatPig said:


> Well just so you'll know someone, I've flown with them 3 or 4 times and never had any problems at all. My wife's flown with them on a couple of other occasions as well, and she copped one return flight delayed till the next day, but they were put up in a good hotel with vouchers for food plus two $100 discount vouchers for future flights (which we've used).
> 
> Those were all international flights though.
> 
> GP




Na I'm talking domestic


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## The Mint Man (17 October 2008)

Thanks for the reply guys. 
Glad to know I'm not the only one, I was afraid of sounding like a whinger but then again, when the person representing Jetstar freely admits to you that they have completely screwed you then you know you have a reason to be mad!.... yes this did happen.

Cheers


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## Smurf1976 (17 October 2008)

The Mint Man said:


> Thanks for the reply guys.
> Glad to know I'm not the only one, I was afraid of sounding like a whinger but then again, when the person representing Jetstar freely admits to you that they have completely screwed you then you know you have a reason to be mad!.... yes this did happen.
> 
> Cheers



That they act this way is what's wrong. It's one thing to have flights delayed etc, that's the reality of the airline industry. But it's an entirely different situation when you leave groups of school children, sports teams or even grown adults literally stranded at the airport with nowhere to go and no idea how long the situation will last.


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## white_crane (18 October 2008)

I have flown twice with Jetstar domestically and had no problems.  Maybe I was lucky?


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## 2020hindsight (19 October 2008)

Pommiegranite said:


> 1st - Flight delayed by 2 hours
> 2nd - Flight delayed by 2 hours and bags lost
> 3rd - Flight delayed by 4 hours and ugly stewardesses




hiya pg - you forgot...

4th - Flight wasn't delayed - but ugly passengers  

PS Would it be fair to say that other airlines also have delayed flights? Maybe the thread should be more of a comparison between local airlines?   

Would it be fair to say that, in these days of stupid fuel prices, there are bound to be efforts to ensure flights are full - and especially with the cheaper airlines?


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## Smurf1976 (19 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> hiya pg - you forgot...
> PS Would it be fair to say that other airlines also have delayed flights? Maybe the thread should be more of a comparison between local airlines?
> 
> Would it be fair to say that, in these days of stupid fuel prices, there are bound to be efforts to ensure flights are full - and especially with the cheaper airlines?



Yes the others do delay flights. But I don't recall them ever simply deciding that someone who booked a flight on Friday would now fly the following Tuesday (for example) simply to maximise airline profits. 

The others have delays that's for sure, but it's due to weather, mecahanical problems etc rather than because someone sitting in an office decided that a 3 day delay would be a good way to boost profits.

Checking in is another one. Let's say I get to the airport an hour before the flight. Then Jetstar has some computer problems and it takes me 35 minutes to get through the queue. I'll be greeted with a grinning person behind the counter reminding me that I've now missed the flight, which hasn't even boarded yet, and it's my fault. That sort of nonsense just doesn't happen with Virgin or Qantas, at least it hasn't in my experience.

Bottom line is I accept that Jetstar is a cheap airline and you get what you pay for. But Virgin fares are generally only a bit higher and their service and especially attitude is far better so I choose to fly with them. Likewise no problems with Qantas although their fares generally are higher than Virgin's and I don't see any reason to pay the extra. I've never flown with Tiger so can't comment on them.


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## 2020hindsight (19 October 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> 1. ... I don't recall them ever simply deciding that someone who booked a flight on Friday would now fly the following Tuesday (for example) ...
> 
> 2. ... some computer problems and it takes me 35 minutes ....missed the flight   ... That sort of nonsense just doesn't happen with Virgin or Qantas, at least it hasn't in my experience.
> 
> 3. ... no problems with Qantas although their fares generally are higher than Virgin's and I don't see any reason to pay the extra. I've never flown with Tiger so can't comment on them.



hi, smurf

1.  Bit like Mintman's original problem - i.e. "please get yourself to terminal B - btw, that's over on Hamilton Is " 

btw - you saying that happened, the 3 or 4 day delay thing? or hypothetical?  They would have to refund fares for a start (surely).  I concede that an urgent ticket purchased with another airline would come at a premium.  


2. Qantas also screws up occasionally.  I was in a massive queue one morning 6.00am flight from Sydney ... Tried to get an auto-dispensed ticket, but they asked me to go to the counter - for an exit row seat. 

Finally got to the counter with about 32 mins to takeoff -  I said "fairly urgent lady, I'm on that first flight to Perth" ... She turns round and says "too late!"  
I said " you sure!"  
"well for starters you need to be here 30 mins early for luggage" 
looked at my watch - it's now about 30 mins on the dot.  "sheesh lady, you a cricket umpire or what? - ok what options do I have - can I go now and the luggage follows?"
"nope, must accompany you!"
"Can I get the next flight - because I have a meeting today?"  - 
"Nope all full" 
"tomorrow?" 
"Nope" 
"When then" 
"day after I can fit you in"  - 
"that's way too late"
"sorry - next please" 

I start to walk away - then just for fun I tell her, "that's a seriously tough call lady....  I mean it's still 29 mins to go for that Perth flight. "
 she looks at her screen ...  funny look on her face ...
"Ahhh - For some reason I thought you were going to Brisbane on the earlier flight - no problems for the Perth flight.."  

3. Qantas are better for redeyes back from Perth - those flights that leave at 00.15am.  Qantas allow changes on the previous day.   Virgin need 24 hours notice.  I've had to just rip up tickets with Virgin because I had to extend a stay in Perth - but Qantas you can change up until 11.59pm - just before the flight.


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## sunny_dayze (24 April 2009)

I, too am looking for an airline ombudsman, Having attempted to make an online reservation with Jetstar, an 'unable to process' window opened, which said the reservation could not be made, four days later, two days after the flight in question had departed, we received confirmation of booking as well as having $428 debited to our credit card.  3 letters to Jetstar customer service dept. later they have offered us a $25 discount voucher on any future flight we might make.  No thanks Jetstar, you can stick it!


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## prawn_86 (24 April 2009)

sunny_dayze said:


> I, too am looking for an airline ombudsman, Having attempted to make an online reservation with Jetstar, an 'unable to process' window opened, which said the reservation could not be made, four days later, two days after the flight in question had departed, we received confirmation of booking as well as having $428 debited to our credit card.  3 letters to Jetstar customer service dept. later they have offered us a $25 discount voucher on any future flight we might make.  No thanks Jetstar, you can stick it!




Talk to your CC provider about the money. If you pay for a good/service and dont receive it sometimes the CC provider can issue a refund.

But yes i agree Jetstar is useless.

For travel info/threads also check out this forum


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## vincent191 (24 April 2009)

Absolutely no excuse for ugly stewardess. But again when you fly budget airlines don't expect first class service.

As for Qantas they have the worst looking cabin crews. Sorry to sound like a male chauvinist but I have to be honest. The last time I flew Qantas one of the stewardess was so overweight that she can hardly fit in the aisle. The other male steward was gay.


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## Prospector (24 April 2009)

sunny_dayze said:


> I, too am looking for an airline ombudsman, Having attempted to make an online reservation with Jetstar, an 'unable to process' window opened, which said the reservation could not be made, four days later, two days after the flight in question had departed, we received confirmation of booking as well as having $428 debited to our credit card.  3 letters to Jetstar customer service dept. later they have offered us a $25 discount voucher on any future flight we might make.  No thanks Jetstar, you can stick it!




Contact your credit card and dispute the transaction,  the email you received after the flights left will have the date on it.


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## GumbyLearner (24 April 2009)

I used Qantas a few years ago from Narita to Melbourne. The service was nowhere near as good as the Singapore :22_yikes:  , JAL , Malaysian :casanova: or Korean Air  :1luvu:services I have used since. Geoff Dixon should take a good look at his company's share price before he accepts the highest airline remuneration of any CEO in the world.  

As for Jetstar, I used them a couple of times domestically, the seats were small but the service was ok. Virgin seats seemed far more comfortable.

Just my 2 cents


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> I used Qantas a few years ago from Narita to Melbourne. The service was nowhere near as good as the Singapore :22_yikes:  , JAL , Malaysian :casanova: or Korean Air  :1luvu:services I have used since. Geoff Dixon should take a good look at his company's share price before he accepts the highest airline remuneration of any CEO in the world.
> 
> As for Jetstar, I used them a couple of times domestically, the seats were small but the service was ok. Virgin seats seemed far more comfortable.
> 
> Just my 2 cents




Some months ago I was booked into a Conference down South which involved 2 internal flights, all paid for a multinational corporation.

The last leg was on Jetstar.

I have never travelled on this airline, as I feel it is for those who have either low income or low standards.

Imagine my surprise when I was positioned in 1A with plenty of leg room and staff not caught up in the Virgin psychotic experience.

I'd give Jetstar a go again I must admit. My fellow passengers also appeared normal taxpaying people and not the gormands I had expected.

gg


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## OK2 (24 April 2009)

Maybe you should try Tiger Airlines they are great, you do not even get a call advising of the changes so when you get to the airport the only place you get to go is back home. I must admit that the total of two check-in staff for two departures at the same time were great, they looked us up alternative domestic flights with Virgin and Qantas with a premium of around $500 per ticket one-way. We could of flown Emirates for less.

Many of my wifes network have had issues with Tiger Airlines and now refuse to fly with them.

And you are forgetting the cost of parking at the airport, it is almost as much as the flight itself.


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## MichaelD (24 April 2009)

Unfortunately, airlines are all much of a muchness lately, with some caveats. I travel on all domestic airlines apart from Tiger frequently.

They're all strictly enforcing times for arrival now, apart from some occasional regional flights where I've rung in advance that I'm running a bit late or the connection is delayed and they've held the plane for me. The smaller planes still are personal.

City-to-city is by-the-book. Of the domestics, Qantas is the best (= least worst) at re-accomodating you.

Had what I consider an outrageous experience with Qantas last week where we turned up at BNE in time, got our automatic boarding passes, joined the line (excessively long) and got told our bags missed the cut-off due to the time in line. Not happy at all (in the Qantas Club queue) and the business class passengers look right ticked off with their 30 minute wait, too, in their bag drop queue. Heaven help the economy pax who would have waited 60 mins in their queue - on a Sunday morning mind you, not on a weekday peak.

At least the situation was resolved by ticketing - wife/daughter boarded with hand luggage and I took all bags with me on a later flight with excess baggage charges waived (me now taking 3 bags instead of 1).

With the other domestics, it would have been tough luck, buy another ticket.

Unfortunately, flying is not the tolerable experience it used to be any more, no matter who you fly with, it's an odious chore.

Qantas: follow their rules or tough titties, but at least they'll try to accommodate you afterwards.

Virgin Blue: too busy with their comedy routines to bother with customer service.

Jetstar: Tolerable experiences so far, but you're on your own if you're even the slightest bit late and tough if they're late - like all low cost carriers.

Rex & QantasLink: Accommodating wherever possible but only fly regional routes.


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## gav (24 April 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Some months ago I was booked into a Conference down South which involved 2 internal flights, all paid for a multinational corporation.
> 
> The last leg was on Jetstar.
> 
> ...




Mixing with us common folk not as bad as you thought GG?

Wait until you end up in a seat next to me and I take up your arm room, eat my smelly chicken/tuna and rice every 2hrs and constantly climb over you to go take a wizz every 45 minutes


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## robandcoll (24 April 2009)

tax payers

I am agog, taxpayers are flying as well. What will they think of next


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## Kat777 (26 June 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Airlines are pricks in general.
> 
> I know of no ombudsman unfortunately.
> 
> Good luck





I found this thread when I was doing a search for "airline ombudsman" ...This is upsetting.

I have an issue with Skywest which has been ongoing since August 08! I tell you, their customer service is absolutely terrible. 

Ive sent them 2 emails and had no reply. I just sent the third one about 20 mins ago. And I've tried calling them too but they say "send us an email" GRRRRRRRRRR.

How am I meant to get anything resolved!


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## awg (26 June 2009)

Kat777 said:


> I found this thread when I was doing a search for "airline ombudsman" ...This is upsetting.
> 
> I have an issue with Skywest which has been ongoing since August 08! I tell you, their customer service is absolutely terrible.
> 
> ...




What you have done is a start.

Public whinging.

You should ensure that you have the correct email address and name (if possible) of the person to whom you should correspond.

All email should be receipted.

CC a copy of yr emails to Dept of Fair Trading, if you feel so inclined.

Another step, you can take..fully outline the hopeless way your case is being dealt with on this or other public forums, then attach a copy to the Company, so they can see they are being publicly criticised.

This generally elicits a response.

Be polite but assertive


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## Glen48 (26 June 2009)

Sounds like their staff are Ex Telstra or Migration.. Booked in to fly OS and bag as 3 Kg over wanted $105 extra  girl suggested I get a carry on bag for $4 I did put shoes and  Toiletries in and went ok ..got to Security and they threw out my toiletries worth over $100 but then I was allowed to buy any thing I like duty free and carry it on board????? Had i known I could have put clothes in the carry on bag and left the other in the suitcase..guess that's why they call it a _carry on_ bag because I did.


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## awg (26 June 2009)

Glen48 said:


> Had i known I could have put clothes in the carry on bag and left the other in the suitcase..guess that's why they call it a _carry on_ bag because I did.





Lucky security did not detain you in a side room, for being stroppy, causing you to miss yr flight.

They probably could arrange an internal cavity search as well


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## drsmith (26 June 2009)

Flying Jetstar in from Perth to Adelaide in March I found it more cattle class than Virgin.

Got from A to B was OK but the seats were closer together (less leg room). This is not an airline for the tall.  I also checked in online but still had to wait ~30min in a queue to check in luggage. There was no bag drop counter.


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## doctorj (26 June 2009)

drsmith said:


> Flying Jetstar in from Perth to Adelaide in March I found it more cattle class than Virgin.



You think they're bad... I've got economy class flights on Armavia Airlines an Azerbaijan Airlines this month to look forward to.

I'm already practicing flapping my arms


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## Medici (27 June 2009)

Why (if successful trader) you are travelling with Jets Star ?


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## beamstas (27 June 2009)

Virgin is best.


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## drsmith (28 June 2009)

beamstas said:


> Virgin is best.



It's basic compared to Qantas but I have always found their service to be good. 

One I have not tried is Tiger. They seem to have the cheapest flights (out of Perth) but I'm way too old for getting on a plane at midnight or similar.


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## Smurf1976 (28 June 2009)

Very good service from Virgin a week ago. 

In short, I turned up late and missed the flight. So they just put me on the next flight with a spare seat and didn't charge anything extra for this. They even gave me the choice of any seat I wanted - and I was the one who was late.

So I can't complain about that and they even appologised for there being a queue at the airport (if there wasn't then I might have made it in time... just).

That sure beats the Jetstar grin and total ignorance of anyone who misses a flight even through no fault of their own.


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## natcom (26 October 2009)

Everyone,
For all your airline complaints and more go to nationalcomplaints.com.au
We want to know all about your complaints.
We store all these complaints in our database for everyone to search on and are on display publicly.
We also negotiate complaint resolution, so hit these guys where it hurts.


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## cutz (26 October 2009)

natcom said:


> so hit these guys where it hurts.




Who do you wanna hit and why, what's your problem.


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## moXJO (26 October 2009)

cutz said:


> Who do you wanna hit and why, what's your problem.




For all your forum complaints and more go to nationalcomplaints.com.au


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## DB008 (26 October 2009)

They are all a little bit hit and miss IMO. But Qantas still comes out ontop for me. But, they are starting to get a bit expensive for the average joe...
I've had good experiences on Death* (aka, Jetstar, as it's known in the Frequent Flyer Community) and Virgin, but l'm so over their comedy crap. Grow up please...
LCC (Low Cost Carriers) are exactly that and as the saying goes "You get what you pay for". You want cheap, try Ryan Air. They now going to start charging pax to use the toilet on board.


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## cutz (26 October 2009)

moXJO said:


> For all your forum complaints and more go to nationalcomplaints.com.au




Yeah i've got a complaint against the post #35 clown, fancy wanting to hit someone where it hurts.


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## Boggo (26 October 2009)

natcom said:


> Everyone,
> 
> We also negotiate complaint resolution, so hit these guys where it hurts.




Why "hit them where it hurts", they are providing the service that you are paying for.

If you think that you are going to get the same service etc on no frills LCC's (Low Cost Carriers) that you had when the Ansett/Qantas duopoly existed over ten years ago, and at less than half what you would have paid then you are kidding yourself.

Friends of ours sent their kids to the football in Melbourne a while ago with some of their school mates on a LCC because the fares that are available were affordable, they couldn't have done that ten years ago.
LCC's have made air travel available to many more people than it was available to many years ago, unfortunately they are the group that bitch and whine the most because they are still grappling with the concept of complying with a time deadline.

Basically, you now have a broad choice in Australia, you choose how much service etc you want and then you pay for it, simple.


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## GumbyLearner (26 October 2009)

Boggo said:


> Why "hit them where it hurts", they are providing the service that you are paying for.
> 
> If you think that you are going to get the same service etc on no frills LCC's (Low Cost Carriers) that you had when the Ansett/Qantas duopoly existed over ten years ago, and at less than half what you would have paid then you are kidding yourself.
> 
> ...




I can only agree Boggo.

Remember Compass. They were annihilated by the major players. Australia is a big country and getting around back then was a price-prohibitive exercise.

You should see regulation in Canada. Any non-Canadian based carrier is not allowed to pick up Canadian passengers from domestic airport to domestic airport. So it's ok to fly to St.Johns, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg or Vancouver from another country but it is illegal for an international carrier to take passengers from the city they land and carry passengers onto another domestic route. Australians are lucky to not have this kind of anti-competitive protectionist garbage to inflate airfares.


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## CanOz (27 October 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> You should see regulation in Canada. Any non-Canadian based carrier is not allowed to pick up Canadian passengers from domestic airport to domestic airport. So it's ok to fly to St.Johns, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg or Vancouver from another country but it is illegal for an international carrier to take passengers from the city they land and carry passengers onto another domestic route. Australians are lucky to not have this kind of anti-competitive protectionist garbage to inflate airfares.




The reason they protect the air from competitors is that the main carrier is a crown corporation. If they opened it up to competition the carrier would fail, costing tax payers millions and millions. Canada's airspace is not valuable enough for more than one large and a few small player's, at least not on the east coast. 

You know it costs more to fly from Fredericton NB to Toronto than it does from Harbin to Hainan!

But at least the carrier, and all those jobs are still in business.

Agree its not perfect, but who is going to take the chance on that business.

CanOz


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## GumbyLearner (27 October 2009)

CanOz said:


> The reason they protect the air from competitors is that the main carrier is a crown corporation. If they opened it up to competition the carrier would fail, costing tax payers millions and millions. Canada's airspace is not valuable enough for more than one large and a few small player's, at least not on the east coast.
> 
> You know it costs more to fly from Fredericton NB to Toronto than it does from Harbin to Hainan!
> 
> ...




Fair point Can.

But are either of the two routes you mentioned longer than say KL to Sydney or even Brisbane for that matter. Are they price comparative to Jetstar or Virgin?

Canada has a larger population than OZ too, as I'm sure you are aware. Crown corporations??? Give me a break that's like saying Aussie GOC's deserve a better deal. Aren't people taxed enough already???


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## Boggo (27 October 2009)

Most recent LCC adventure, three days is probably stretching the friendship a bit far though.

Like a tiger !


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## CanOz (27 October 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Fair point Can.
> 
> But are either of the two routes you mentioned longer than say KL to Sydney or even Brisbane for that matter. Are they price comparative to Jetstar or Virgin?
> 
> Canada has a larger population than OZ too, as I'm sure you are aware. Crown corporations??? Give me a break that's like saying Aussie GOC's deserve a better deal. Aren't people taxed enough already???




Fred to TO is like, 1000 kms

Harbin to Hainan is 4000 kms

My point is that the East cost routes are expensive because of the monopoly by the state carrier, so they make money from those routes so they can take less margin on the routes with Westjet.

I don't like the crown corps, but its politics, lots of jobs at stake, lots of Unions.

CanOz


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## GumbyLearner (27 October 2009)

CanOz said:


> Fred to TO is like, 1000 kms
> 
> Harbin to Hainan is 4000 kms
> 
> ...




So what?

Subsidize unions?

I was a member of many Australian Unions working my ass off to pay my way through Uni. No ticket, no start!! At $10.72 an hour with a 50 kilo bag on my back all day. It certainly didn't create any symbiotic loyalty within my pysche. Maybe I'm missing something? Nah!!!! 

Now I'm a solid believer in not paying more!


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## Da Cat (27 October 2009)

sorry to jump in ... but is the service better on the state run Canadian Airlines than jetstar, qantas etc? if so, and in the context of this thread, perhaps deregulation and competition aren't the best model for air travel?


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## GumbyLearner (27 October 2009)

Da Cat said:


> sorry to jump in ... but is the service better on the state run Canadian Airlines than jetstar, qantas etc? if so, and in the context of this thread, perhaps deregulation and competition aren't the best model for air travel?




No worries! But I still don't believe in inflated prices for transport. When there are willing competitors ready to step into the void that is not currently available that can provide people with a choice that is not price-prohibitive.


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## Da Cat (27 October 2009)

seems like the model in aust is lacking though, certainly by the response of this thread. bad customer service, no one to complain to, lack of accountability, fugly hostess. theoretically a business like that shouldn't survive, but in the absence of an alternative...?
or ... perhaps people still have the expectations of good service as a hangover from the days of high cost air travel on gov't run airlines. especially the average citizen taking his/her annual leave after saving for months. maybe people just need to view air travel like everything else. you get what you pay for. cheap fares = cheap service, (high fares = better service)? 
or ... is the option the return of some government standards, complaints board?


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## GumbyLearner (27 October 2009)

Da Cat said:


> seems like the model in aust is lacking though, certainly by the response of this thread. bad customer service, no one to complain to, lack of accountability, fugly hostess. theoretically a business like that shouldn't survive, but in the absence of an alternative...?
> or ... perhaps people still have the expectations of good service as a hangover from the days of high cost air travel on gov't run airlines. especially the average citizen taking his/her annual leave after saving for months. maybe people just need to view air travel like everything else. you get what you pay for. cheap fares = cheap service, (high fares = better service)?
> or ... is the option the return of some government standards, complaints board?




High fares is the key!


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## doctorj (27 October 2009)

When you factor in that Australia is twice the size of the Eu, but has less population than the total of the greater metropolitan areas of Paris and London and only 5% of the total GDP, its clear that something has to give.  In this case, it's a higher fare.  In reality Qantas domestic is pretty similar to BA/LH/LO/OS...


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## jono1887 (28 October 2009)

I really don't see what the problem is. You pay 1/3 of the airfare than you would if you took Qantas and you expect equal service.. obviously somethings gotta give. But lol at the fugly air crew!


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## Gerkin (28 October 2009)

I consider Jetstar and Tiger good airlines in comparison to their peers worldwide. I remember an internal flight in India where I had to check to see if I was booked on the plane, no one could tell me so I went to the head office. (The only place with a computer) anyway this was inside a shipping container with armed guards with rifles out front.Needless to say I was scepitical but me being as aussie they were pleasant because they wanted to talk cricket.

I fly about 3-4 times per year for holidays around Australia and the reason I am able to do this is because I use these budget airlines. If you can budget correctly you can actually get 2 holidays for the price of one using budget airlines. I would much rather 3-4 holidays per year than say 1 or 2 using Qantas.


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## Smurf1976 (28 October 2009)

Tiger would surely have the record for flight delays on domestic routes. A few hours fair enough, but their 3 DAY delay out of Hobart this week is ridiculous and has convinced me never to fly with them. 

I never thought I'd see the day when crossing Bass Strait by ferry was quicker than flying but that's exactly the situation Tiger has managed to create. At this rate, a sail boat might even be quicker.

Surely they could manage to find a plane and crew and fly out in the middle of the night when planes are otherwise sitting on the ground? Not ideal but it would have to beat a 3 day delay. 

I won't be considering Tiger for my upcoming trips to Adelaide and then Sydney no matter how cheap the fares are. I do want to actually get there at least on the right day, if not precisely on time. Not much point in saving a few $ only to end up sitting in an airport for 3 whole DAYS and missing out on the reasons for going in the first place.


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## chode84 (28 October 2009)

What a lot of people probably don't understand is that the unlike other carriers, these LCC's only carry the legal minimum amount of cabin crew required for the flight. If the same scenario had unfolded with Qantas (hostie goes sick) then they could still have done the flight as they carry more then the legal min. amount of flight attendants required for the flight. 

I agree that three days is excessive but don't really feel sorry for anyone who is screwed over by a LCC. You can't expect to fly for the price of a train ticket and not expect it to show somewhere.


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## Boggo (28 October 2009)

Unfortunately sometimes even the good ones get greedy...



CALLIE WATSON AND AAP

October 28, 2009 05:30pm

A FOOD processor that can't even shred cheese, a sky-high surcharge at Qantas and mumbo jumbo from cosmetics giant L'Oreal have scooped this year's Shonky Awards.

Consumer advocate Choice is urging shoppers to to be more demanding before accepting tricky labelling and bogus fees and charges.

Choice today announced the most dubious, doubtful and dodgy products and services of the past 12 months.

*Qantas was included for for charging a fee of $7.70 for every domestic traveller who pays for their ticket with a credit card.*

It was judged as unfairly inflating prices, a claim the airline has rejected.

Uncle Tobys honey oat cereal received the unwanted publicity for keeping the price of the product the same despite reducing the size.

Choice spokesman Christopher Zinn said many consumers were too complacent and were reluctant to speak up if they were getting a dodgy deal.

"We should expect more, expect better, if people treat us like idiots and try to rip us up, regardless if they're a bank or business, then people need to stand up," he said.

"That's our long term strategy to make people more savvy."

A Tiffany food processor that retails for $39.99 and broke into pieces when it tried to shred tasty cheese in three separate tests was also singled out.

Elvive conditioner, shampoo and serum sold by cosmetics was giant L'Oreal was also because Choice believed it used dubious statistics and chemical "mumbo jumbo" to entice buyers.

L'Oreal Paris declined to comment.

The Choice 2009 Shonky Award winners were:

*Aldi's Chefs' Cupboard and Massell liquid stocks*

Reconstructed from plain old stock cubes

*Credit protection insurance*

Not worth the paper it is written on

*L'Oreal Elvive shampoo, condition and serum*

For promoting the products using dubious statistics

*Qantas*

High credit card surcharge of $7.70 per domestic passenger

*Reegan Micro Plug*

Claims to reduce your power bills by 30 per cent when it does not

*Tel Pacific prepaid phone cards*

For ridiculous hidden fees and charges

*Tiffany FP 807 food processor*

Failed to shred cheese on three occasions

*Uncle Tobys Honey Oat Crisps*

For shrinking the product but not the price


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## Smurf1976 (22 November 2009)

Looks like I might have to give Jetstar another go after all. 

Can't even book with Virgin - just keep getting silly "time expired" messages from their website. Tried several times and still no luck, and I wouldn't consider entering all relevant details in under a minute to be taking too long.

And airlines wonder why they end up losing money! It's fairly hard to be profitable when your attempted customers are turned away by your primary point of sale two weeks in a row.


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## Solly (22 November 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> Looks like I might have to give Jetstar another go after all.
> 
> Can't even book with Virgin - just keep getting silly "time expired" messages from their website. Tried several times and still no luck, and I wouldn't consider entering all relevant details in under a minute to be taking too long.
> 
> And airlines wonder why they end up losing money! It's fairly hard to be profitable when your attempted customers are turned away by your primary point of sale two weeks in a row.




Mate even ASF gets DNS issues, if you have probs again give them a call on 13 67 89 or 07 3295 2296 off shore, 24 hr I'm sure they'll help. We need a strong Bluey, it keeps The Rat in line .
"I love things that seem impossible".....


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 November 2009)

Anyone having problems with the Velocity Gold Card sent out by Virgin recently should contact.

Carol Beer 
Velocity Gold Card Manager

131875

or if calling from outside Australia

+612 8667 5924

She was extremely helpful to me and I got to keep my Gold Card.

I find with problems with Airlines that it is just a matter of speaking to the right person, one who is capable, has a good phone manner and above all else, a person who cares.

gg


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## Kelly2011 (23 February 2010)

There is no Airline Ombudsman in Australia.  If you have a complaint about an airline you should contact Consumer Affairs in your State, and it is EASY to do this online and fill out a complaint form & send.  Wouldn't it be good if everyone who had a bad experience did this?  Then the government might set up an Airline Ombudsman! At least it would give them a true indication of the level of bad service.
My experience too was one that has made me NEVER buy a ticket from Jetstar again.  Our outward flights were cancelled but we were never informed of this.  Jetstar rang me on my mobile and when I returned the call 4 minutes later I was told they were confirming my hire car booking.  I asked 3 TIMES if my flights were all the same & ok and was told yes 3 times by the call centre staff member. When I rang Jetstar the next day (2 days before departure) to confirm the hire car details I was told the flight had been cancelled.  What it really came down to was - their staff member had lied to me on the phone. Really really bad service!


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## Mofra (24 February 2010)

Jetstar still beats most South American airlines hands down for service 

Of course, in terms of "scenery", the standard of stewardesses in Australia is no comparison with SA employees


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## cuttlefish (24 February 2010)

Never flown Jetstar and don't ever intend to. Given the abundance of evidence about their quality of service (or lack thereof) its a bit naive to fly with them and then act all surprised and annoyed when it goes pear shaped imo.

If I flew with them I would set my expectations pretty low and rate not getting arrested and removed from the plane (as happened to the woman from Byron bay) as a reasonable outcome, and reaching the destination  sometime within a year of the departure date, with or without luggage as a screaming success.

I'm no fan of Qantas either.  Plenty of much better asian airlines for international travel.


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## matty77 (24 February 2010)

lol @ above post! 

I want peoples opinion, am I being petty or not?

I fly with Virgin on a weekly basis, am about to get my Gold Velocity (yay!). Anyway I was flying in from Kalgoorlie to Perth then Perth back to Adelaide a month or so ago. I went to go into the Virgin Blue Room but was told that the credit card payment facility was down - so they would only accept cash. Fine except I had no cash on me only my work credit card. I explained to the lady I needed to get in even just to charge my laptop so I can work on the plane back to Adelaide. She wouldnt allow me to enter unless I paid cash therefore I was turned around and had to go sit in the crap waiting area in Perth Airport for 2 hours.

I was tired, it was a long day, I am a Silver Velocity member and thought I would have got better service then this, they could of at least let me in to charge my laptop or written down my details and charged my credit card later.

Anyway so I sent an email complaint off to Virgin and waited the 21 days for a reply - NO RESPONSE. So I have since sent another email complaint off, still no response 2 weeks later.

Do Virgin even check their email complaints?
Am I being petty? Should I just move on?
I really like Virgin but the complete lack of customer service here has really dissapointed me.

comments?


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## freestyler (17 June 2010)

Yeah well.... I found this thread and forum because I am looking for an ombudsman too. After years of domestic travel, and about 40 - 50 flights so far this year, I have tried all but Tiger (can't bring myself to take the risk). I went away from Qantas a while ago because the price difference was ridiculous. I found Virgin were the friendliest and most pleasant to fly with, but as Qantas got more into the ball park with pricing I went back to them.
What a releif! How much better and more enjoyable and worthwhile the booking is with Qantas!!! Worth the extra dollars big time - service for one thing. And you get plenty of perks if you travel often. They really do reward loyalty.
Unfortunatley sometimes I still go for the Jetstar super low prices, against my better judgement. I paid for a flight the other day (direct credit, paid instantly), turned up at the airport for my flight, and was told that my booking had failed and I had to purchase another (more expensive flight). I pulled out my laptop and showed them the booking and the money transferred from my account to them. The gate keeper rang head office to tell them that I had proved I had paid, and there was room on the flight. They said too bad! Pay again and the previous payment will "drop out of the system and be returned to me" Pigs may fly! They did not let me on the flight.
Anyway, they refused to talk to me, I cannot conatct them, I have emailed the (not) service department they told me too, I have had no reply and they have kept my money.

Ombudsman anybody??
How the hell do we get our money back off these guys, or are they insolvent?

Freestyler


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## prawn_86 (6 October 2010)

Had a nightmare experience with Tiger on the weekend. Will be makking a compliant to several departments, shame there is no centralised one


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## JTLP (6 October 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Had a nightmare experience with Tiger on the weekend. Will be makking a compliant to several departments, shame there is no centralised one




Sorry about your problem. When I first moved I flew them because they were relatively cheap. Problems were numerous and in the end I found spending an extra $30 went a lot toward happiness.

Problems encountered include:
- Delays by a minimum of 30 mins to up to 3 hours
- Plane 'unexpectedly' dropping about 3000ft in the air with no explanation during the flight or after
- Seats that didn't recline/cramped room
- Similar problem with cancelled flight/next day service

The problem with Tiger is that they run their routes using about 2 planes between cities. One turnaround behind schedule and they are history.

I've only had one laughable experience - the hostess gave me her number when exiting!


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## Smurf1976 (6 October 2010)

Beware of flying in anything that bites...

Based on comments I've heard from many others, if you're bitten by Tiger then there's basically nothing you'll be able to do about it. It's unlikely that you'll even be able to speak to anyone.


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## JTLP (6 October 2010)

JTLP said:


> Sorry about your problem. When I first moved I flew them because they were relatively cheap. Problems were numerous and in the end I found spending an extra $30 went a lot toward happiness.
> 
> Problems encountered include:
> - Delays by a minimum of 30 mins to up to 3 hours
> ...




Ooops! I mean once the plane ROSE to 3000ft it dropped - not dropped 3000ft...that would be a lot worse!


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## malachii (6 October 2010)

JTLP said:


> Ooops! I mean once the plane ROSE to 3000ft it dropped - not dropped 3000ft...that would be a lot worse!




You may just find this was a sudden level off.  With noise abatement departures the aircraft are required to climb pretty quickly to reduce the impact of noise on the "locals".  If you get a fairly low level off after takeoff from ATC (eg coming out of Sydney going over the water) you have to go from a steep climb at a pretty high power setting to a level cruise at a slow speed (you cant overspeed the flaps).  This can feel like the aircraft suddenly starts descending particluarly if you are also in the process of retracting flaps.  It's a pretty normal thing and the pilots probably didn't think it was worth mentioning.  Pilots tend to forget that the people behind the door dont experience these things everyday and are a bit nervous about how this metal tube stays in the air!  A good and timely PA can save passengers a lot of sweat and bad publicity.

malachii


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## Boggo (7 October 2010)

malachii said:


> You may just find this was a sudden level off.  With noise abatement departures the aircraft are required to climb pretty quickly to reduce the impact of noise on the "locals".  If you get a fairly low level off after takeoff from ATC (eg coming out of Sydney going over the water) you have to go from a steep climb at a pretty high power setting to a level cruise at a slow speed (you cant overspeed the flaps).  This can feel like the aircraft suddenly starts descending particluarly if you are also in the process of retracting flaps.  It's a pretty normal thing and the pilots probably didn't think it was worth mentioning.  Pilots tend to forget that the people behind the door dont experience these things everyday and are a bit nervous about how this metal tube stays in the air!  A good and timely PA can save passengers a lot of sweat and bad publicity.
> 
> malachii




An example of a simple departure from Sydney that places a passenger PA quite a few step down from being a priority.


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## malachii (7 October 2010)

Been a while since I've done the Deena 4 but you can see that the inital climb out is at a minimum of 4.7% for the first 1000 feet and then you are allowed to drop to 3.3%.  From memory on a busy afternoon ATC will usually give you a level out at 5000' until established on the radial (someone more current can correct me on this).  This just means that you are working like a one armed paper hanger and if your a little slow on engaging the auto pilot you may have to do the level out yourself which can cause some "interesting G" feelings!

I wouldn't particularly call this one simple.

malachii


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## choice1 (7 October 2010)

My folks were trying to fly up to Cairns from Brisbane on a Sunday. They left the house at 6, plane at 8 and then get above Cairns by 10. 

Long story short after several attempts to land they fly them back to Townsville. Since it is a military base they cannot leave the plane and they have no food/drink on board as it is not a full service flight. They eventually managed to find some muffins and fly back to Cairns for another attempt. 

They cannot land again so they fly them back to another airport and unload. My dad finds a few people to share a car rental and drive up to cairns to collect his car then another 2 hours back to the house. My mum decides to fly home without lining up for the refund as the line would have been over an hour long (whole plane trying to organise how to get up there as work on Monday etc).

She did finally get a ticket transfer after going through 3 people on the phone.

It took me 13 hours to fly to LA last year while it took my mum, from leaving the house until returning, 12 hours to fly to cairns and never actually arrive : ).

Never again jetstar


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## malachii (7 October 2010)

You cant really blame Jetstar for not landing at Cairns (assuming it was due weather).  The alternative is to risk life and limb just to land - I dont think anyone would want that.  As for catering - we all know the cheapy airlines dont carry full service.  They cant carry an extra tonne of food "just in case".  Even full service airlines dont do this.

The problem is that airlines get through the vast majority of the time.  When they miss one - everyone complains but if an airliner continued and there was an incident - then everyone complains.  What do you do???

malachii


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## Boggo (7 October 2010)

malachii said:


> You cant really blame Jetstar for not landing at Cairns (assuming it was due weather).  The alternative is to risk life and limb just to land
> malachii




Agree entirely.
The Russian and Indonesian incidents are two relatively recent examples of that doomed practice.

Remember that if a crew fly an aircraft to a destination then they actually want to land, all airport approaches however have a predetermined stoploss point and the crew's only decision is where to go to once that point is reached.


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## JTLP (7 October 2010)

malachii said:


> You may just find this was a sudden level off.  With noise abatement departures the aircraft are required to climb pretty quickly to reduce the impact of noise on the "locals".  If you get a fairly low level off after takeoff from ATC (eg coming out of Sydney going over the water) you have to go from a steep climb at a pretty high power setting to a level cruise at a slow speed (you cant overspeed the flaps).  This can feel like the aircraft suddenly starts descending particluarly if you are also in the process of retracting flaps.  It's a pretty normal thing and the pilots probably didn't think it was worth mentioning.  Pilots tend to forget that the people behind the door dont experience these things everyday and are a bit nervous about how this metal tube stays in the air!  A good and timely PA can save passengers a lot of sweat and bad publicity.
> 
> malachii




Malachii I like the cut of your jib and you seem pretty on the ball with your assessment...it's just the Crew's faces, the pretty bumpy drop and the plane not really feeling like it was on trajectory made for some funny stomach feelings!

I guess i'll cut Tiger a break for that one - the rest of the Airline is hopeless...


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## Julia (7 October 2010)

Boggo said:


> Agree entirely.
> The Russian and Indonesian incidents are two relatively recent examples of that doomed practice.
> 
> Remember that if a crew fly an aircraft to a destination then they actually want to land, all airport approaches however have a predetermined stoploss point and the crew's only decision is where to go to once that point is reached.



Exactly.   As someone who (for a career break) spent 18 months as air crew, I can assure you the crew absolutely want to stick to the schedule.  If they are substantially delayed, they will run out of flying hours, and will be forced into an unscheduled overnight.  They'd much rather get home.  It's not just passengers whose arrangements are upset.

I understand the frustration and inconvenience re lack of landing in the Jetstar incident, but think it's unfair to criticise the airline for this.
Would you rather the landing had been attempted, quite possibly risking the lives of all on board?


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## Boggo (11 October 2010)

Next time you fly Jetstar it may be worth thinking about who is at the pointy end if this is accurate.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...away-but-not-in-australia-20101008-16bc1.html


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## Boggo (19 October 2010)

Not just Jetstar, V Australia have decided that they too can join the race to the bottom...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-reports/1137613-vaustralia-lax-bne-cancellation.html


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## glenn_r (19 October 2010)

Should have flown Qantas.....

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip...angaroo-route-qf-a380-first-class-w-pics.html


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## drsmith (31 March 2011)

Qantas can't take a trick.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...star-pilots-told/story-e6frg95x-1226031265408

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011/03/31/1226031/270701-jetstar-email.pdf

Regardless of right or wrong, he can't really distance himself from his supervisory relationship with his staff to justify a dummy spit.


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## johnaust (9 December 2011)

As you guy's are all concerned about Jetstar please consider two related issues when you fly off on your next trip.  Firstly with economic fears spreading from overseas.  I recently noticed that airlines are no longer offering discounted return flights.  Long term booking risks can be reduced by only booking TWO single fares to avoid loosing your return flight if your airline goes into a nose dive.  
The second warning and issue affected me when I booked a ferry fare through the UK agency, Direct Ferries in the UK.  I cancelled 6 months in advance and the agency refused to refund the fare.  The actual Ferry company in Ireland was happy to refund but Direct Ferries held on to the money which was in their account and not in the ferry companies account.  BEWARE - In the EEC, you will receive no consumer protection from the law as protection is only offered to EEC residents, unlike visiters who come to Australia as ther are protected by Australian consumer laws.  Clearly having no consumer protection in the EEC leaves the door open to any operator to make up the rules and take the money.


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## JTLP (1 February 2012)

Help please!

2 different scenario's (within 3 days of each other!)

- Jetstar flight - they ask 30 people to hop off the plane as a crew member was sick on the inbound flight and they need a smaller jet. No problem there. Until they announce they don't have a smaller jet ready and the flight is delayed by 1hr 45mins. Standard apology upon boarding.

- Virgin Flight - Weds just past - weather was raining in Sydney all day (nothing out of the ordinary though). Was duly informed my flight would be delayed by 1hr 45min. Not too happy about this. Another delay to 2hr 30min. Original flight time was 7pm - did not depart until 9:45pm. No food vouchers/standard apology.

Can I get any compensation out of this RUBBISH? Would love that bullet train right about now...


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## prawn_86 (1 February 2012)

JTLP,

Airlines have passengers over a barrel until there is an ombudsman. You agree to let them get away with virtually anything in their T&C's and due to the oligopilistic nature you pretty much have to fly with them again.

I have a thread on it on the travel forum, add your support there if you want.


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## Lisaw (30 October 2012)

The Mint Man said:


> Hi guys,
> Just wondering if there is an Airline Ombudsman or anyone else who fields complaints about this industry?
> 
> Long story short, Jetstar has really pissed me off
> ...




Yes there is phone number 1800 813 129


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## Lisaw (30 October 2012)

cuttlefish said:


> Never flown Jetstar and don't ever intend to. Given the abundance of evidence about their quality of service (or lack thereof) its a bit naive to fly with them and then act all surprised and annoyed when it goes pear shaped imo.
> 
> If I flew with them I would set my expectations pretty low and rate not getting arrested and removed from the plane (as happened to the woman from Byron bay) as a reasonable outcome, and reaching the destination  sometime within a year of the departure date, with or without luggage as a screaming success.
> 
> I'm no fan of Qantas either.  Plenty of much better asian airlines for international travel.




Yes  

http://www.airlinecustomeradvocate.com.au/General/Default.aspx


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