# The Exceptional Happiness Ideas and Thinking Thread



## wayneL (30 June 2009)

Something a bit different - How to obtain optimum happiness.

Exceptional wealth is one thing, and it's a good thing, but to me it's a subordinate concept to happiness. If anyone is interested, I'd like to explore ideas on making oneself happy and how that ties in with wealth.

Let's face it, money does matter to happiness in our western society. You need a certain amount of money just to be able to socialize with your peer group. 

Going on from the exceptional wealth thread, I like to think more in terms of optimal wealth. How much wealth is enough? Does it profit your emotional being to press further than what is optimal.

Some of the great philosophers postulated about this topic.

Epicurus thought you do need money to a certain level to be happy, but past that it plateaued and could even reduce at greater levels of wealth.

Seneca observed that those with greater wealth were inclined to rage most easily.

Even Lao Tzu was cynical of *excess* wealth.

Through a few quirks of my sporting interests and marriage, I occasionally have socialized with some with truly exceptional wealth. A greater bunch of self absorbed, conceited, unprincipled and truly odious @ssholes I have never met (generally, there are a minority of very nice people).

The very best people I like to be around and seem to be happiest are those who are wealthy enough to socialize in reasonable standard restaurants, buy nice mid-range cars, have reasonable middle class house, travel a bit etc. These people enhance my own happiness, whereas those with not enough money and those with "too much" are a pain in the @ss.

I don't suggest to stop building wealth at x level, but that the clamour for exceptional wealth may be counter productive for the "soul" (with whatever religious or non-religious connotations one likes to hang off that word). 

Now I'm not suggesting that all really really rich people are jerks and are unhappy at all, or that poorer people cannot be happy, but that there is an optimum level of wealth. This could even be vastly different for different people.

Discuss?


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## tech/a (30 June 2009)

1.   Life isn't fair, but it's still good. 
2.   When in doubt, just take the next small step. 
3.   Life is too short to waste time hating anyone. 
4.   Your job won't take care of you when you are sick. Your friends and parents will. Stay in touch. 
5.   Pay off your credit cards every month. 
6.   You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree. 
7.   Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone. 
8.   It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it. 
9.   Save for retirement starting with your first pay check. 
10. When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile. 
11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present. 
12. It's OK to let your children see you cry. 
13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about. 
14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it. 
15. Everything can change in the blink of an eye. But don't worry; God never blinks. 
16. Take a deep breath. It calms the mind. 
17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful. 
18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger. 
19. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else. 
20. When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take no for an answer. 
21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, and wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion. Today is special. 
22. Over prepare, then go with the flow. 
23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple. 
24. The most important sex organ is the brain. 
25. No one is in charge of your happiness but you. 
26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?' 
27. Always choose life. 
28. Forgive everyone everything. 
29. What other people think of you is none of your business. 
30. Time heals almost everything. Give time. 
31. However good or bad a situation is, it will change. 
32. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does. 
33. Believe in miracles. 
34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do. 
35. Don't audit life. Show up and make the most of it now. 
36. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young. 
37. Your children get only one childhood. 
38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved. 
39. Get outside every day. Miracles are waiting everywhere. 
40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back. 
41. Envy is a waste of time. You already have all you need. 
42. The best is yet to come. 
43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up. 
44. Yield. 
45. Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift.


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## wayneL (30 June 2009)

tech/a said:


> 1.   Life isn't fair, but it's still good.
> 2.   When in doubt, just take the next small step.
> 3.   Life is too short to waste time hating anyone....




Good one Tech. Where is that from?


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## gooner (30 June 2009)

wealth is only important to happiness if you let it be. I know happy genuine people who live from pay cheque to pay cheque. I also know of people with lots of money who are a total pain, venal and corrupt.

If I win lotto tonight ($90m this week), I will be ecstatic for a day or two, maybe a week, but I suspect my happiness level will return to normal after about six months. The only truly valuable thing that the money would bring to me would be that I would not have to do paid work again. Given I am currently unemployed I would stop looking for work and do the language study that I never seem to have the time to do.

Key lesson is not to let money control your life - you control it


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## jono1887 (30 June 2009)

gooner said:


> wealth is only important to happiness if you let it be. I know happy genuine people who live from pay cheque to pay cheque. I also know of people with lots of money who are a total pain, venal and corrupt.
> 
> If I win lotto tonight ($90m this week), I will be ecstatic for a day or two, maybe a week, but I suspect my happiness level will return to normal after about six months. The only truly valuable thing that the money would bring to me would be that I would not have to do paid work again. Given I am currently unemployed I would stop looking for work and do the language study that I never seem to have the time to do.
> 
> Key lesson is not to let money control your life - you control it




just because your a total pain, venal and corrupt - doesnt mean your not happy. Those @ssholes that are ridiculusly rich could be incredibly happy : but i doubt it though...

That thing about happyness going back to normal is correct though, theres some scientific term for it that i learnt in psychology last semester... but with anything new that gives you happiness, it will only be temporary because it will become the norm and your 'happiness level' will return to what it was before.

I believe happiness is irrelevant to material possessions but is ultimately determined by out own outlook on life. If we take joy in each day of life that we have, we can be happy day after day... just because of the mere fact that we are still able to get out of bed each day.


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## tech/a (30 June 2009)

wayneL said:


> Good one Tech. Where is that from?




Got it from a friend via email.
I thought it that good Ive had it printed up so I can place it on a card to hand out.
Originally I was going to give it with friends Birthdays/Xmas--- you know---but have since thought about sending it out with Invoices/Quotes/letters.

You know lifes so damned short you just gotta grab all you can!
Anything over 50's a lottery!


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## tech/a (30 June 2009)

> If I win lotto tonight ($90m this week),




To give you a perspective of what chance you have.

Imagine your in the middle of AAMI Stadium in Adelaide.
54000 seats.
On each seat is 2 reams of paper 1000 sheets
Now all the sheets are WHITE except one which is BLUE.

Now tell me which seat and which numbered sheet of paper it is.

(Its Seat 23655 and sheet no 265)


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## gooner (30 June 2009)

tech/a said:


> To give you a perspective of what chance you have.
> 
> Imagine your in the middle of AAMI Stadium in Adelaide.
> 54000 seats.
> ...




tech/a

Sorry mate you are wrong - AAMI stadium - have to pick the seat, but only 100 sheets of paper of which one is blue. Because I bought 20 games........


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## Stan 101 (30 June 2009)

1. This is it!

2. There are no hidden meanings.

3. You can't get there from here, and besides there's no place else to go.

4. We are all already dying, and we will be dead for a long time.

5. Nothing lasts.

6. There is no way of getting all you want.

7. You can't have anything unless you let go of it.

8. You only get to keep what you give away.

9. There is no particular reason why you lost out on some things.

10. The world is not necessarily just. Being good often does not pay off and there is no compensation for misfortune.

11. You have a responsibility to do your best nonetheless.

12. It is a random universe to which we bring meaning.

13. You don't really control anything.

14. You can't make anyone love you.

15. No one is any stronger or any weaker than anyone else.

16. Everyone is, in his own way, vulnerable.

17. There are no great men.

18. If you have a hero, look again: you have diminished yourself in some way.

19. Everyone lies, cheats, pretends (yes, you too, and most certainly I myself).

20. All evil is potential vitality in need of transformation.

21. All of you is worth something, if you will only own it.

22. Progress is an illusion.

23. Evil can be displaced but never eradicated, as all solutions breed new problems.

24. Yet it is necessary to keep on struggling toward solution.

25. Childhood is a nightmare.

26. But it is so very hard to be an on-your-own, take-care-of -yourself -cause-there-is-no-one-else-to-do-it-for-you grown-up.

27. Each of us is ultimately alone.

28. The most important things, each man must do for himself.

29. Love is not enough, but it sure helps.

30. We have only ourselves, and one another. That may not be much, but that's all there is.

31. How strange, that so often, it all seems worth it.

32. We must live within the ambiguity of partial freedom, partial power, and partial knowledge.

33. All important decisions must be made on the basis of insufficient data.

34. Yet we are responsible for everything we do.

35. No excuses will be accepted.

36. You can run, but you can't hide.

37. It is most important to run out of scapegoats.

38. We must learn the power of living with our helplessness.

39. The only victory lies in surrender to oneself.

40. All of the significant battles are waged within the self.

41. You are free to do whatever you like. You need only to face the consequences.

42. What do you know . . . for sure . . . anyway?

43. Learn to forgive yourself, again and again and again and again. . . .


Sheldon Kopp


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## CapnBirdseye (30 June 2009)

tech/a said:


> 1.   Life isn't fair, but it's still good.
> 2.   When in doubt, just take the next small step.
> 3.   Life is too short to waste time hating anyone.
> 4...........................................everywhere.
> ...




I agree with tech/a.  Smile, be nice to peple and surf every day.


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## MRC & Co (30 June 2009)

This is actually something I have pondered for many hours and something I have tried to achieve.  To me, happiness is the reason for life (another thing I have pondered for many hours).

How is it achieved (just my opinion):

First, one needs to acheive all of the below - with balance between each:

Health - maintaining good health, through both work on fitness and diet, but mainly I believe this is a big element of luck.  

Passion (finding what you love and doing it day in and day out).  This can include multiple passions, from work, to sport, to art or whatever you find passion in doing.

Wealth - having enough to live comfortably without worry of any financial situation and providing enough to socialise well ( as Wayne stated earlier) and persue your passions and other outside interests (such as travel, which in itself, could be a passion).

Family and friends - good relationships of loyalty and closeness with both family and friends, generally, you will also have a circle of friends who enjoy your same passions.  

That's about it for me.  These are key and there needs to be balance between all of them.  

Note:  Passions will also provide goals, another important element.

Maybe you older ducks can add more, if I missed something, for me to think about........


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## Ageo (30 June 2009)

Wayne i know people that are both poor and wealthy and i have learnt the ultimate rule:

*If you cant be genuinely happy when poor what makes you think you will be so much happier wealthy*

The reason i accept this as reality is because i see so many people chasing dreams/lifestyle/wealth and to see they are never happy. If they make $10,000 they spend $10,000 and want more, if they make $100k they spend $100k and still not happy etc...

Not all people are like this but majority are and thats because they havent learnt the golden rule of being happy no matter what level of wealth you are at, because life is just a journey so enjoy it while it lasts.

I admit its hard to be genuinely happy even when your in tough financial/emotional times but its all a challenge and the book "failing forward by John Maxwell" explains this very well.


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## tech/a (30 June 2009)

Anyone can be Poor and Unhappy.
Infact most of us have tried it.
Didnt like it much.


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## Garpal Gumnut (30 June 2009)

A great thread Wayne.

I cannot put into words what Happiness is so am happy to read others excellent thoughts and ideas.

gg


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## nunthewiser (30 June 2009)

love oneself 

with all flaws included


nice lists boys 

u planning on using them ?


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## wayneL (30 June 2009)

My old man's favourite saying:

Money only makes poverty bearable.


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## Julia (30 June 2009)

This is probably a purely personal view, but I differentiate between happiness and contentment.

To me happiness is a sort of blissful state which even at the time one realises won't last long.

Contentment, on the other hand, feels more like a considered acceptance of having come to a place in life where the striving is over, and a measure of gratitude exists for what has been achieved.  A sort of satisfaction or reward for all the effort expended to get there.



> *If you cant be genuinely happy when poor what makes you think you will be so much happier wealthy




I totally disagree with this.   I've been poor and it absolutely, utterly sucks.
Never, ever want to go there again.  It's not just the lack of money.  It's also the resulting diminution of one's self esteem.  When you're poor you're powerless.  Money buys choices and opportunities.  

At the same time, I don't understand that striving for ever more and more wealth.  I was today in a group of eight people and we were discussing the 90million Lotto prize.  Only two of us said we would be comfortable with that much money.  The others couldn't imagine what they would do with it and thought they'd keep five million and give the rest away immediately.


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## Garpal Gumnut (30 June 2009)

Keep it up folks, I'm letting these nice thoughts and ideas waft over me.

I'm happy.

gg


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## Timmy (30 June 2009)

Wear sunscreen.


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## nunthewiser (30 June 2009)

Timmy said:


> Wear sunscreen.





hahahahahah great song

great lyrics


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## Timmy (30 June 2009)

Got it in 1, nun.


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## trainspotter (30 June 2009)

And trust me on the Winnie Blues. Whatever happened to John Safran?

Now my Granpappy used to tell me "You aint nuffin without your health. Money, happy and allllllllllllllll that other stuff don't mean squat if ya don't got ya health."

Me, I prefer to laugh a lot. That makes me happy. It doesn't cost anything, you can do it anywhere, you can do it by yourself, there are no limits, laugh and the world laughs with you. Life is too short to be unhappy.

Oh yeah ... a reasonable amount of money makes you happy as well. Te he.


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## trillionaire#1 (30 June 2009)

i agree with Julia ,its hard to be be happy when your poor and resultingly
low in self esteem.
i think the basis of happiness is being financialy independent and able to control your life.


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## nunthewiser (1 July 2009)

Timmy said:


> Wear sunscreen.






nunthewiser said:


> hahahahahah great song
> 
> great lyrics






Timmy said:


> Got it in 1, nun.




suggests a few here have listen to this actually 

some wise words

pure poetry

enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfq_A8nXMsQ


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## Tink (1 July 2009)

MRC - good post

Also like Tech's email he posted..


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## wayneL (1 July 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> suggests a few here have listen to this actually
> 
> some wise words
> 
> ...




Thanks  Excellent!


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## Sean K (1 July 2009)

Expectations / Reality * 100

You either need to keep your expectations in check, or consistantly overachieve.


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## gooner (1 July 2009)

trillionaire#1 said:


> i agree with Julia ,its hard to be be happy when your poor and resultingly
> low in self esteem.
> i think the basis of happiness is being financialy independent and able to control your life.




Poverty is a state of mind, not of financial wealth. Being poor, in the context of not having much money is not inextricably linked with low esteem.  As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have friends with minimal money but they are happy. They do not have low self-esteem.

The point about being in control of your life is a good one, but you do not need to have lots of money to be in control of your life. You can still be poor and in control of your life.


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## Timmy (1 July 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> enjoy
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfq_A8nXMsQ




And one for trainspotter too...

Not The Sunscreen Song


The Sunscreen Song has spawned some myths, article about it at Wikip.


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## Uncle Barry (1 July 2009)

Good morning.
",its hard to be be happy when your poor and resultingly
low in self esteem.
i think the basis of happiness is being financialy independent and able to control your life"

I read the above 
and

would suggest to some including those reading or who have read the above.

You have still a hell of a lot MORE to learn about life and what time you have left of it !

If you still think happiness has anything to do with the number of dollars in your Bank, your wrong.

Happiness as with wealth is only a state of the person's mind
AND NOT what he or she can spend or do. 

Kind regards,
UB


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## Tink (1 July 2009)

well said UB

Of course financials makes life easier, but I dont see that connected with self esteem and happiness..

Happiness for me starts with the basics - family being the top one and close friends - as said, I liked your post MRC

Balance is another good one.. in all things..

Achieving - chasing goals and getting them (passion)

I am sure I can add more later : )


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## wayneL (1 July 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Good morning.
> ",its hard to be be happy when your poor and resultingly
> low in self esteem.
> i think the basis of happiness is being financialy independent and able to control your life"
> ...



I'd suggest it's a bit stressful to have bailiffs kicking down your door and turfing you out in the street, or unable to buy food etc.


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

nothing beats the happiness I feel playing with my little dog......
she performs tricks which makes me laugh.....
or she plays the monster with her toys......
or racing around the house 100 mph exercising herself......
or pulling me down the stairs ....on her hind legs only.....to go for a walk
I dont recall laughing as much or as often since she came into my life....
money has nothing to do with it....


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## Uncle Barry (1 July 2009)

Hi,
"I'd suggest it's a bit stressful to have bailiffs kicking down your door and turfing you out in the street, or unable to buy food etc."

Lets look at these two claims one by one,
I'd suggest it's a bit stressful to have bailiffs kicking down your door and turfing you out in the street, 

Of course it would be, 
However the subject matter was happiness, AND NOTHING what so ever about stress.
But to add, 
it could be a happy moment, as at long last the problem has reached a climax and then its time to move on with one's life.

I know someone who was in that situation, once, and its not me.

unable to buy food etc
I love that claim !
How many times I've seen people drinking, smoking and pouring money into poker machines and claim they have very little money for food. b/s..sorry.

How many times have I looked around houses where they don't have a garden to grown wonderful fresh chemical free food, but are drinking, smoking and pouring money into poker machines.

Gardens cost nothing, except time and love of the Earth and the bountry it can produce before your very eyes, time and time again, therefore there are NO excuess for not having a garden, even in a couple of old plastic buckets.

These same people wouldn't go fishing, to feed their families but are drinking, smoking and pouring money into poker machines.

WL, 
NO ONE can help those that don't want to be helped and wish to change their ways and I honestly think its almost criminal that Government take my money and all the people who WILL work hard and give this money to those who WISH not to work or are drinking, smoking and pouring money into poker machines.

Kind regards,
UB


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## Tink (1 July 2009)

Aww Kincella, here too, my dog makes me smile : )

well thats family


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## Trembling Hand (1 July 2009)

I was thinking about this happiness thing recently and came to the conclusion that there are three types of happiness,

1. Denial
2. Luck
3. Achievement.


Personally would be satisfied chasing number 3 and never getting there than being in number 1 or 2. (ok 2 would be nice but out of my control )


And the whole happiness "thing" is BS. Happiness is not the default human condition. Life is a struggle, embrace it.


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## Ageo (1 July 2009)

Ok my post is directed to those who think you cannot be happy and poor.....


Answer me this, years ago my parents both were brought up in poor environments (as my grandparents were etc..) now they lived through wars and much worse **** we see today yet they said they all were genuinely happy hence it was a much simplified life. Today because people want to drive around in nice cars, live in nice homes etc...... they *think* wealth is what makes them happier.

Dont get me wrong having more money now is much much nicer than having less like before, but i cant say im not anymore (genuinely more happy in life). 

Call me old thinking but do tribal people not have a happy life? let me tell you i reckon more simplified poor people have a better life than most middle/rich class. 

To be honest i could piss the home/cars and every other toy i had off and move into the bush/ live like a hobbit and be as happy as larry for the rest of my life.

To me money is just a tool to provide you with something that satisfies your *wants*


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## Timmy (1 July 2009)

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs model can be helpful in working out how achieve happiness.  It might also be of use on this current debate about the importance of money to happiness.  (BTW, I am no expert on any of this, just that Maslow's model makes sense to me).

Maslow's hierarchy of needs


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## Trembling Hand (1 July 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> > I'd suggest it's a bit stressful to have bailiffs kicking down your door and turfing you out in the street,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 FFS

you have to be kidding!!!


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## Bushman (1 July 2009)

If you seek happiness, you will feel anxious when you cannot achieve it. Practice mindfulness and connect with the present moment. In that moment there is peace. 

LOL; hard to achieve amongst all those primal urges and requires infinite practice.


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## Tink (1 July 2009)

Trembling Hand - I think what UB is getting at is that sometimes some people have to hit that wall before they change their thinking..

I could be wrong..


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

I am generally a happy positive person....am rarely unhappy...so news that  Peter Costello returns to lead the Liberals would make me feel very happy.....
I don't know about the exceptional bit....


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## tech/a (1 July 2009)

Ideas

Help someone spontaneously.
Suprise your partner/friends/kids
Be selfish with yourself.
Come to terms with who you are.


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## wayneL (1 July 2009)

Uncle Barry,

You've introduced a bunch of extraneous conditions. 

I never mentioned gardens, cigarettes or booze.


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## nomore4s (1 July 2009)

Lots of idealistic views in this thread which in reality are a bit unrealistic imo. The fact is we live in a totally different world to the one pre 1960's/70's.

While being rich/wealthly isn't required to bring happiness a certain level of wealth is optimal to help bring happiness imo, even if it is only to aid in peace of mind and the ability to care for and look after the things in life that are really important to us - eg family & friends, pets etc.

Having a certain level of wealth can also ease the stresses of modern life, not having to worry about bills, providing for family, being able to take holidays, being able to pursue hobbies etc, etc.

In short the advantage of a certain level of wealth is that it can help provide a balance in your life which will in turn bring a level of happiness. This is also why alot of super rich people aren't happy or it takes them a long time to find it imo - they don't have the balance right due to the excessive wealth they have the the excesses this causes in parts of their life.

I'm not saying money is the only catalyst to happiness but imo it can help.


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## Trevor_S (1 July 2009)

Ageo said:


> To be honest i could piss the home/cars and every other toy i had off and move into the bush/ live like a hobbit and be as happy as larry for the rest of my life.




LOL.. I tried to buy 10 hectares with a small house on it up in the "remote" hills behind Ingham recently, the other wannabe hermits out there beat me to it   I had every intention of moving their permanently, only returning to town to visit the library to stock up on books and some perishables once a month... never mind 

I am at my happiest when engaged in activities I enjoy, in the outdoors and by myself.  I can't being to understand "people" and every time I do, I am more confused and disgusted then before  (some individuals I feel a deep kinship with though)

I was quite interested to see the number of people that stated in hear their happiness is tied up in their family and friends, seems quite alien to me.


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## Julia (1 July 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Hi,
> "I'd suggest it's a bit stressful to have bailiffs kicking down your door and turfing you out in the street, or unable to buy food etc."
> 
> Lets look at these two claims one by one,
> ...



Uncle Barry, if you use the QUOTE tags your posts will be much easier to understand.
I don't want to speak for Wayne, but presumably he was suggesting it would be a less than happy situation if you were being turfed out of your house.


> But to add,
> it could be a happy moment, as at long last the problem has reached a climax and then its time to move on with one's life.



No.  To be forced to do anything is not the source of happiness.
If it's time to make a decision and move out, better to do it voluntarily.







> unable to buy food etc
> I love that claim !
> How many times I've seen people drinking, smoking and pouring money into poker machines and claim they have very little money for food. b/s..sorry.
> 
> ...



This is a gross over-simplification and generalisation.  It's actually an insult to the thousands of decent people who have lost their jobs and are struggling on the unemployment benefit.  e.g. if you get around $200 ish a week and rent on a very basic 1brm flat is $250, how are you going to manage?

And to suggest that everyone who hasn't enough to buy food is wasting what funds they do have on drinking, smoking and poker machines is again insulting and ridiculous.
I've known many situations where people are poor for no such reason.
When I was poor myself I didn't do any of those things

Of course some people do this, but by no means the majority.









Trembling Hand said:


> And the whole happiness "thing" is BS. Happiness is not the default human condition. Life is a struggle, embrace it.



Your thinking is in line with that of Henry Thoreau who said:
"Most Men lead lives of quiet desperation".  
I'd say that's more true than most of us would think.



Timmy said:


> Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs model can be helpful in working out how achieve happiness.  It might also be of use on this current debate about the importance of money to happiness.  (BTW, I am no expert on any of this, just that Maslow's model makes sense to me).
> 
> Maslow's hierarchy of needs



Agree.  And let's note that Maslow makes security of employment, property etc as second on the list of needs, after breathing, food et al.





Trembling Hand said:


> FFS
> 
> you have to be kidding!!!



Pretty much what I thought.


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## Mr J (1 July 2009)

Peace and laughter for me. I'm always laughing at something - usually myself - and I can't imagine a world without laughter. Peace? Peaceful surroundings, but I'm referring more to inner peace. For me it means accepting both the good and the bad, shrugging off the bad, trying to look at things objectively and enjoying the moment.

Wealth doesn't factor in so much, at least not in a financial sense, and as long as I'm doing something I enjoy. Trading I enjoy, as it gives me what I value most - time. Time to think, time to laugh, time to enjoy, time to learn. I believe it's my time that allows me maintain a positive frame of mind. I'm time-wealthy, and that keeps me happy.


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

nomore4s...I agree with you....
there were times in my life when the money was a bit short....but it never stopped me from being happy...
in fact I tend to stay away from unhappy people if I can...or reduce the amount of time I spend with them....

I have no wish to be extremely wealthy, however I worked hard to achieve a certain level, in order to look after my extended family......

I think some people choose to be unhappy.....whereas I choose to be happy...

I have a brother, a pessimist...he seems to prefer to be unhappy....no matter what good...happy news he has, or hears, or happens to him....he almost always counters it with an unhappy thought, or response...as if to remind himself he should be unhappy

oh and I was reminding my daughter this morning...about how the dog drags me down the stairs....she pulls so hard against the harness, that she stands up and walks on her hindlegs.......that made my daughter laugh...was that funny or feeling happy......
oh and I am happy that I was born in this country...and not in some war torn dictator regime....


----------



## bowman (1 July 2009)

Humans are about as disconnected from nature (and each other?) as they have ever been. Ultimately I don't think that's a road that leads to happiness.

I am emotionally most contented when I am gardening (ornamental and vegies) and preparing food - that's my primary nature connection.

On the other hand trading is my mental stimulation and financial source (my bloody sprouted grain bread costs $7 a loaf ), but that activity brings in the conflict of being a part of the whole unsustainable growth thing, that capitalism and consumerism seem to be built on.

Happiness is fleeting, sometimes I am contented, but mostly I am conflicted.


----------



## Tink (1 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> Peace and laughter for me. I'm always laughing at something - usually myself - and I can't imagine a world without laughter. Peace? Peaceful surroundings, but I'm referring more to inner peace. For me it means accepting both the good and the bad, trying to look at things objectively and enjoying the moment




Here too Mr J - good post : )


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## Uncle Barry (1 July 2009)

Dear Julia, 
I seem to have upset you, 

"unemployment benefit. e.g. if you get around $200 ish a week and rent on a very basic 1brm flat is $250, how are you going to manage?"

EASY my dear, you move to a cheaper place to live !
AND you grow food in buckets !
AND go fishing to feed your family !

How did I know.
Because I have been there done that.
(And thats the end of the subject, for me )

"And to suggest that everyone who hasn't enough to buy food is wasting what funds they do have on drinking, smoking and poker machines is again insulting and ridiculous".

My Dear read what you want to read and not what I wrote.
I did NOT WRITE "EVERYONE."

"insulting and ridiculous"
My Dear that is only in YOUR mind.

Myself to try and help others less well off by suggesting that start to grow their own chemical free food is a wonderful thing
To stop spending on useless items like Smokes, Drinks and Poker Machines would save that person money.
This money could buy food, rent and a better life style.

And to suggest people less well off STOP spending on Drinks, Smokes and Poker Machines just might help someone, which would allow these same people to have basic food of a better standard or level of freshness, and turn their energy into a garden which could produce fresh food which inturn could allow these same people to have a body just a bit more healthy, is a wonderful thing, to me, BUT YOU called me "insulting and ridiculous".

EVEN if it helps one person, then to me, what I write and tell others in my life, is a wonderful thing.

I find is extremely sad, almost sick, when someone would suggest or imply that stopping smoking, drinking and or playing poker machines is, in your words "insulting and ridiculous" as this could, or maybe would produce a better life for another human, if they stopped the above AND changed their ways.

Enough of me, as its time to work, as we walk different lifes and have different ideas about helping others on this place called Earth I will leave the thread to you Julia and wish you well in the future.
Thank you for your clear very thoughts and ideas.
Kind regards,
UB


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## tech/a (1 July 2009)

> I'm always laughing at something - usually myself




Yeh me too! (my sence of humor).

*Julia.*
You go girl!

*Trevor.*
On the level of most humans are a waste of space and resources I agree with you.
If you have good friends and family they will bring you much happiness.--and some grief along the way!


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## johenmo (1 July 2009)

Some of the most content people I have met haven't been wealthy - financially comfortable, yes - wealthy (in my mind), no.  

These seem to want what they have, not want to have what they want.  And family does figure large.

Being healthy, financially OK and having good family/friend networks are the primary "bases" of contentment IMO.

And if you aren't there, then *most* people have to make the effort to get there.  Not sit & fell sorry.

And if you can't laugh at yourself, you're missing the best joke of all.....


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## Mr J (1 July 2009)

> These seem to want what they have




That has been true in my experience as well, as materialistic people always seem to worry about getting the latest thing, about who has it and whether their's is better than people they know. Personally, I'm satisfied with what I have, don't need what I don't have (or can't afford!), and if I do get it then it is a bonus.



> Yeh me too! (my sence of humor).




I actually laugh when people agree with me (as if I don't expect them to).



> Being healthy, financially OK and having good family/friend networks are the primary "bases" of contentment IMO.




I had an accident a couple of years back, and that kind of experience really does make one appreciate health. I think a lot of happiness can be found in appreciating the little things that we all take for granted - the sunrise and sunset, a nice gentle breeze, family and friends, a pretty young thing walking down the street . If I go for a walk, I'll have a smile on my face as it's all completely amazing and interesting to me. I don't know when the world became like this for me, but I like it.


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## nunthewiser (1 July 2009)

too many bloody hippies in these forums these days


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

some good jokes or just laughing should make you feel happier.....
last christmas I hired some very old Abbott and Costello movies for the grand kids staying with me....and Jack Nicholsons...One flew over the cuckoos nest,
I was looking for Red Skelton..but did not find his...Benny Hill was a bit too risque....Steptoe and sons......

we all laughed and laughed until our sides hurt...tears streaming.....

heres a bit of Red's best..... 

*Red Skelton’s recipe for the perfect marriage*
A well-known routine of Red Skelton’s. 

Two times a week, we go to a nice restaurant, have a little beverage, good food and companionship. She goes on Tuesdays, I go on Fridays. 
We also sleep in separate beds.  Hers is in California and mine is in Texas. 
I take my wife everywhere..... but she keeps finding her way back. 
I asked my wife where she wanted to go for our anniversary. “Somewhere I haven’t been in a long time!” she said.  So I suggested the kitchen. 
We always hold hands.  If I let go, she shops. 
She has an electric blender, electric toaster and electric bread maker. She said “There are too many gadgets and no place to sit down!” So I bought her an electric chair. 
My wife told me the car wasn’t running well because there was water in the carburetor.  I asked where the car was; she told me “In the lake.” 
She got a mud pack and looked great for two days.  Then the mud fell off. 
She ran after the garbage truck, yelling “Am I too late for the garbage?” .... The driver said “No, jump in!” 
Remember: Marriage is the number one cause of divorce. 
I married Miss Right. I just didn’t know her first name was Always. 
I haven’t spoken to my wife in 18 months.  I don’t like to interrupt her. 
The last fight was my fault though! My wife asked “What’s on the TV?” I said “Dust!” 

http://www.clown-ministry.com/index...ipe_for_the_perfect_marriage/#ixzz0JyIQXteE&D


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

*your annual dementia test *

it's that time of year to take our annual senior citizen test. Fail this test and you are not only a senior citizens, you are well into geezerhood, hehehe! 

Exercise of the brain is as important as exercise of the muscles. As we grow older, it's important to keep mentally alert. If you don't use it, you lose it! The test below is a very private way to gauge your loss or non-loss of intelligence.
Take the test presented here to determine if you're losing it or not. Do not peek at the answer until you've already answered the question. OK, relax, clear your mind and begin.
Q1. What do you put in a toaster?







A1. Bread. If you said "toast", give up now and do something else ... like knit or whittle. Try not to hurt yourself. If you said "bread", go to Question 2.


Q2. Say "silk" five times. Now spell "silk". What do cows drink?
A2. Cows drink water. If you said "milk", don't attempt
the next question. Your brain is over-stressed and may even overheat. Content yourself with reading a more appropriate literature, such as Auto World. However, if you said "water", proceed to Question 3. 


Q3. If a red house is made from red bricks and a blue house is made from blue bricks and a pink house is made from pink bricks, what is a greenhouse made from?
A3. Greenhouses are made from glass. If you said "green bricks", why the hell are still reading these?!! If you said "glass", go on to Question 4. 


Q. 4. It's twenty years ago, and a plane is flying at 20,000 feet over Germany (If you will recall, Germany at the time was politically divided into West Germany and East Germany). Anyway, during the flight two engines fail. The pilot, realizing that the last remaining is also failing, decides on a crash landing procedure. Unfortunately, he fails before he can do so and the plane fatally crashes smack in the middle of "no man's land" between East Germany and West Germany. Where would you bury the survivors? East Germany, West Germany? Or no man's land?



A4. You don't bury survivors. If you said ANYTHING else, you're a dunce and you must stop. If you said, "You don't bury survivors", proceed to the next questions.




Q5. Without using a calculator - You are driving a bus from London to MilfordHaven in Wales. In London, 17 people get on the bus. In reading, six people get off the bus and nine people get on. In Swindon, two people get off and four get on. In Cardiff, 11 people get off and five people get on. In Carmathen, six people get off and three get on. You then arrive at Milford Haven. What was the name of the bus driver?




A5. Oh, for crying out loud! Don't you remember your own name? It was YOU!!
Now pass this on to your friends and pray they do better than you. 




P.S. 95% of people fail most of the questions! Hey, at least you're in the majority, hehehe!


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## bowman (1 July 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> too many bloody hippies in these forums these days




When in  Rome....... that's my excuse anyway. That, plus the growing realisation that I am only x number of sleeps away from worm food.


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## awg (1 July 2009)

Here is what sits at the apex of Maslows hierarchy

Self-transcendence

Near the end of his life Maslow revealed that there was a level on the hierarchy that was above self-actualization: self-transcendence[7]. "[Transcenders] may be said to be much more often aware of the realm of Being (B-realm and B-cognition), to be living at the level of Being… to have unitive consciousness and “plateau experience” (serene and contemplative B-cognitions rather than climactic ones) … and to have or to have had peak experience (mystic, sacral, ecstatic) with illuminations or insights. Analysis of reality or cognitions which changed their view of the world and of themselves, perhaps occasionally, perhaps as a usual thing."[8] Maslow later did a study on 12 people he believed possessed the qualities of Self-transcendence. Many of the qualities were guilt for the misfortune of someone close, creativity, humility, intelligence, and divergent thinking. They were mainly loners, had deep relationships, and were very normal on the outside. Maslow estimated that only 2% of the population will ever achieve this level of the hierarchy in their lifetime, and that it was absolutely impossible for a child to possess these traits.


Sorry about the long wiki excerpt, its an area of interest for me.

If you have ever wondered about the tradition in many world religions, especially Hinduism & Buddhism, but also Islam and Christianity for people to forgo material comfort for some other quest, this gives some clues.

fwiw, most all the very wealthy persons I have met, are very driven, which is not overly compatible with contentment.

Some of the seemingly most contented had little money. ( also lacked drive)

for instance, many people I know could not give a stuff about the GFC, cause they have not lost any money,( they had none), most wealthy people are "unhappy" about drawdown.

There is a plethora of material about increasing your happiness quotient, some of it is quite useful, as IMO, genetic predisposition towards various characteristics is strong, one needs to become self-aware and train oneself to more productive methods of thinking if this is the case, or a difficult upbringing has been experienced ( the two are often linked).

I agree with Julia's comments re contentment vs happiness.

Disclaimer, I enjoy money and comfort, too much maybe.

It costs many $ to support a family and they dont want to hear **** about being happy with less


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

all this talk about the wealthy not being nice, or happy people...makes me wonder....
I know several mega wealthy people.....they are all very nice...they are all from the 'old school' types....no margin loans or fancy stuff....

as for the driven types...not compatable with contentment......?
depends on what drives you ....could you believe some people are at their happiest, and contented, when they are motivated and driven......it works for me....

my father was still breaking in the young and wild horses at age 83, before his untimely death from an unrelated  accident.....and he was transporting cattle for 2 days a week....he enjoyed his work....had no intention of retiring
he was a happy man...he loved the responsibility of getting up to go to work each day to look after and train his babies....
he had the S model Jaguar...drove it at 100 miles per hour out on the road, took his lady friends to lunch and the races....acted as if he was 40...
you might have called him driven...he was just enjoying life...doing what he always did...no more no less...
his mates were retiring at 65 and dying not long after...probably half of it from boredom...


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## Mr J (1 July 2009)

> depends on what drives you




I'd agree with this. In regard to the driven not being satisfied, it may be common among people who are driven by materialistic and superficial desires.


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## Julia (1 July 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Dear Julia,
> I seem to have upset you,
> 
> "unemployment benefit. e.g. if you get around $200 ish a week and rent on a very basic 1brm flat is $250, how are you going to manage?"
> ...



Had a look at rental property recently?   You'd be lucky to get anything for $200 in most areas.



> AND you grow food in buckets !
> AND go fishing to feed your family !



Yeah, right.  Easily fixed.  Especially if you live in the city in an apartment block with no balcony.

No, you haven't 'upset' me.   I just hate rabid generalisations such as suggesting that  people who are poor are so because they don't know how to prioritise their money, and spend it all on poker machines, booze and cigarettes.

I've worked with hundreds of people whose lives for various reasons have been immensely difficult, who don't do any of these things, and who continue to struggle.

I acknowledge that some people do waste money on such pursuits, but you're simply being unfair in suggesting all anyone has to do to be just hunky dory and happy as all hell, is go fishing and plant some tomato seeds in a bucket.



Some of you have said that money is irrelevant to happiness.
Let's break it down a bit.

Kincella, you love your dog.  If you didn't have money you couldn't afford to buy a dog.  Maybe you get a free dog from a shelter.  What happens if the dog gets sick/hurt and the vet says it will cost $500 or dog will die?
How do you get on then?

Or perhaps you have young children.  Child gets sick.  Needs a drug not on the PBS.  Cost $200.  No money.  What happens then?

Ageing person needs new glasses.  Where does the money come from?

The old car (all you can afford) needs repairs.  $1500.   Where does this come from?

You have foot problems.  Need custom orthotics.   Ooops, another $600 or more.

The rent goes up $20.  Electricity goes up $60 per quarter.

Etc etc.

If someone simply doesn't have the income to meet such expenses, you're telling me they're going to be rolling around in a state of bliss?
Give me a break!

There's a huge difference between being mega-wealthy (absolutely unnecessary, sometimes counterproductive) and simply having enough to provide shelter and basic necessities.


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## Ageo (1 July 2009)

I think the answer here is different people have different levels at which they are happy at.

* Some are happy with nothing
* Some need financial stability to have happiness 
* Some need massive amounts of wealth to be happy (but i find this option hard to believe).


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## Mr J (1 July 2009)

I think it's hard to argue that money doesn't matter - it matters to most people to an extent. Some living outside the system may not need any, but for most I think money improves happiness to the point where we are comfortable. Comfort is of course subjective. 

I think much of happiness lies in realising what we do and do not need. If we think we need more than we have, we're less likely to be happy than if we're satisfied with what we have.


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

not materialistic or superficial...neither was my father...
I know people who hate their jobs..others who sit around watching telly or movies all day...
and mostly the people I mix with are driven for a reason other than as you say....
I have a big family to look after.....tried to save my brothers life last year...I paid all the medicals to get him into better health care....but the hospital and its bugs killed him a long slow painful death over 2 months...
I have another brother, hurt his back years ago, cannot work, now has diabetes 2, he will need assistance in the future...

my friends and associates are more into doing what they enjoy...careers they love...helping others, charity , donating time for a good effort...

I think some of the unhappiness comes from too much alcohol or drugs or both and the hang overs that follow...
I have a daughter who is mostly unhappy...she keeps making the wrong decisions, thinks the world owes her in some way....but she will not do anything to change or fix it...
oh and I think studies have shown some people enjoy being unhappy...


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## awg (1 July 2009)

You do make a good and true point Kincella.

In theory, perhaps he fits the description of the 2nd highest stage of Maslow, although note the wording

Self-actualization and Maslow's Hierarchy

"The term was later used by Abraham Maslow in his article, A Theory of Human Motivation. Maslow explicitly defines self-actualization to be "the desire for self-fulfillment, namely the tendency for him [the individual] to become actualized in what he is potentially. This tendency might be phrased as the desire to become more and more what one is, to become everything that one is capable of becoming."[2] Maslow used the term self-actualization to describe a desire, not a driving force, that could lead to realizing one's capabilities. Maslow did not feel that self-actualization determined one's life; rather, he felt that it gave the individual a desire, or motivation to achieve budding ambitions."



You have reminded me that the the most satisfied people I meet, seem to have the right balance, but strive and work hard and dilligently towards this, and reward most often follows.


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## Boyou (1 July 2009)

Absolutely agree with all your points ,Julia...but to take the discussion further into the philisophical..

Perhaps happiness is more related to your "horizons"...and those can be influenced by many factors. Age. Career prospects. Bank balance.Spiritual state or relationship with others.

Maybe  Happiness is all relativistic nonsense..cant be measured or defined systematically ,only emperically.

Wonder what Plato and Socrates would have to say if they were posting today?

Cheers Ya'll


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## Mr J (1 July 2009)

kincella said:


> not materialistic or superficial...neither was my father...




I wasn't referring to you or your father, just that materialistic and superficial people are probably less likely to be happy than those who are happy with what they have, and have no desire to compare themselves with everyone else.


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

I know I 'got it'...just a statement about my position  ...attitude...
look some days as you get older...just waking up in the morning and realising you are still alive is a bonus to start with....then the rest of the day is all cream....
I was supposed to be dead years ago.........


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## nunthewiser (1 July 2009)

yep great thread 

anyone define happiness tho ?

is it a puff on a joint and having the giggles , doing the moonwalk and having a fat ole time ?

is it seeing your first child born ?

is it missing catastrophy by the skin of your nose ?

mmmmmmm this thread too deep for me , im going back to the stock threads where i can ramp everything i own like a mindless dweeb instead


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## Boyou (1 July 2009)

"I was supposed to be dead years ago........."

Exactly! Health..isn't that a major part of you horizon?


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## awg (1 July 2009)

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Be-Happy---Why-Happiness-And-Sadness&id=833729

lots of practical small articles on this site, towards the bottom, nothing too deep.

hippies may read 

Martin Seligman is the doyen of Positive Psychology, I am am not a huge fan of his work though

also link to definitions and measurement of happiness

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/happiness_formula/4783836.stm


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## bowman (1 July 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> yep great thread
> 
> anyone define happiness tho ?
> 
> ...




Happiness is having a joint, then narrowly avoiding being hit by a bus while you moonwalk your way to the hospital to witness the birth of your first child.

Everything else is just contentment.


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## Julia (1 July 2009)

Boyou said:


> Absolutely agree with all your points ,Julia...but to take the discussion further into the philisophical..
> 
> Perhaps happiness is more related to your "horizons"...and those can be influenced by many factors. Age. Career prospects. Bank balance.Spiritual state or relationship with others.



That's a good point, Boyou.   When we're young and needing to make our way in a career, relationships etc, I guess we're going to be more 'driven' than when we feel we've more or less achieved what we need.

Or sometimes it's simply realising what is enough, or that we don't have to be the best at everything we do.   Sometimes it might be accepting what can't be changed, e.g. a health problem.

Kincella has mentioned getting older and just being happy for being alive.
The following is something I took out of a novel, the comment being about a woman in her 80's.



> It seemed to her that all of life was simply diminution and loss, the paring away by degrees of what had seemed necessary, the learning to do without.




That sounds sad, almost defeated, but I think it could equally be someone who is accepting what can't be changed.


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

I have not contributed to the 'exceptional' happiness, just plain old happy...

Norman vincent Peale 's, Power of Positive Thinking was like a bible to me , many years ago, when I changed my life....

I think it is very important that you enjoy your working life...that its what you look forward to doing 5 days a week...
I planned my career, with the intention of starting my own business...which I did over 20 years ago.....
I love my work, and being self employed allows more freedom and flexibility ...I like the challenge and the rewards.....
I have no intention of full retirement from the workforce....am semi retired now...and its boring.....


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## kincella (1 July 2009)

I have an aunt in her 80's, she has finally stopped riding the horses, although her son uses all sorts of excuses to try to get her back on one......she was up at his farm fighting the bushfires and saved his house last year....she is as active and motivated to do all things she has always done....had a bypass a couple of years ago...she said she felt 10 years younger,,,and has been acting 20 years younger....alive and loving her full and active life....
oh and she is a happy person


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## Boyou (1 July 2009)

"It seemed to her that all of life was simply diminution and loss, the paring away by degrees of what had seemed necessary, the learning to do without."


Julia,this quote echoes my recollection of the Serenity Prayer.

"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

the courage to change the things I can,

and the wisdom to know the difference." 

Not so much the key to happiness,but a clue to the sate of mind we might need to realise it.. (?)


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## trillionaire#1 (1 July 2009)

i think some people writing on this thread have experienced the resulting 
emotions of poverty ,low self asteem and an inability to call the shots based on financial freedom (not huge wealth)
on their day to day activities for a period of time ,one or two  just like
making overconfident claims of maturity and understanding..


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## Mr J (1 July 2009)

trillionaire#1 said:


> i think some people writing on this thread have experienced the resulting
> emotions of poverty ,low self asteem and an inability to call the shots based on financial freedom (not huge wealth)
> on their day to day activities for a period of time ,one or two  just like
> making overconfident claims of maturity and understanding..




A little negative for this thread. You have hurt my happy.


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## disarray (1 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> You have hurt my happy.




yeah but you just added to mine with that comment. i do need to wipe the coffee of my monitor though. it all balances out


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## wayneL (1 July 2009)

Boyou said:


> Absolutely agree with all your points ,Julia...but to take the discussion further into the philisophical..
> 
> Perhaps happiness is more related to your "horizons"...and those can be influenced by many factors. Age. Career prospects. Bank balance.Spiritual state or relationship with others.
> 
> ...



I like some of Epicurus' views on this, in a nutshell:

You need enough money, but more than enough won't make you any happier.
You need friends
You should eat well (as in fresh and healthy, not gluttony)
You should eat with friends




nunthewiser said:


> yep great thread
> 
> anyone define happiness tho ?
> 
> ...




That's a really great point Nun, I was just reflecting on how each person in this thread has a different idea about what happiness means. I guess that issomething for each person to figure out.



bowman said:


> Happiness is having a joint, then narrowly avoiding being hit by a bus while you moonwalk your way to the hospital to witness the birth of your first child.
> 
> Everything else is just contentment.



 Gold!


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## IFocus (1 July 2009)

Happiness = combination of different chemical reactions occurring in the brain.

Understand / control your brain = feel what ever you want 

Any thing else...........your a victim of some ones values


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## Garpal Gumnut (1 July 2009)

Great thread, gals and guys, keep it up.

It should be required reading for all the unhappy people out there.

gg


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## disarray (1 July 2009)

health (psychological and physical), love (interpersonal relationships and partner), and money (job, career, financial security etc.)

at any one time you should be happy if you've got 2 of the 3. this is the happiest you should expect to be.

if you're fit and stable, content with your woman / whatever, enjoy a regular sex life, have a stable career with future prospects and reliable cash flow then you've got the trifecta. take a picture, life is good.

if not, address the imbalance.


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## nunthewiser (1 July 2009)

Hi everybody 

today i made 3 days wages trading NEU ..... did it make me happy ? nah was just another day at the office 

on the way home i got pulled over for driving 15 km,s over the speed limit , then i was let off with a stern word and no penaltys

was i happy ..........hell yeah

today i texted a poster that has dissapeared from the chatroom to find out if she was ok .... she replied with a logical reason for not being there lately .....

it made me happy to hear all was well

man this happiness is sure confusing stuff and personally think its got squat to do with money


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## nunthewiser (1 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Great thread, gals and guys, keep it up.
> 
> It should be required reading for all the unhappy people out there.
> 
> gg





 it makes me happy that your happy GG


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## Julia (1 July 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> Hi everybody
> 
> today i made 3 days wages trading NEU ..... did it make me happy ? nah was just another day at the office
> 
> ...



Absolutely agree when you have enough.  Whole different story if you haven't.


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## Tink (1 July 2009)

LOL @ Nun -- good one


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## Ageo (1 July 2009)

Ok quick question

* you have $100 billion but you only live 1 yr

* you are poor financially but live 150yrs

Now if you lived both lives list the happiness from each lifestyle and perhaps we can get some sort of answer going from both perspectives.....


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## nunthewiser (1 July 2009)

Ageo said:


> Ok quick question
> 
> * you have $100 billion but you only live 1 yr
> 
> ...




i wouldnt remeber a thing on scenario 1 and would give the change to the bloke in scenario 2 

edit .....actually bugga the bloke in scenario 2 , id get frozen until they found a cure


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## Boyou (1 July 2009)

Some very thought provoking posts on this thread! Wayne L you have started something positive here. 
After all,the question is so fundamental..but also,I am finding it is impossible to come to objective conclusions..our perception of happiness must be,by nature,subjective.

I have one suggestion.Perhaps you can only know if you are happy if you have experienced misery or extreme unhappiness...Does a gazelle know it is travelling fast?..not unless it knows what it is to be a tortoise! 

Maybe a better analogy could be found ,but thats al I can come up with right now.

Cheers Ya'll


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## Timmy (1 July 2009)

Why hasn't Happy posted to this thread?


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## bluelabel (2 July 2009)

tech/a said:


> To give you a perspective of what chance you have.
> 
> Imagine your in the middle of AAMI Stadium in Adelaide.
> 54000 seats.
> ...




Bout time the seats at AAMI were filled with something, cause there sure arent many footy fans heading there.

:bier:

blue


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## prawn_86 (2 July 2009)

bluelabel said:


> Bout time the seats at AAMI were filled with something, cause there sure arent many footy fans heading there.




>38000 on the weekend to watch the Crows. They always pack it out, its just the Port supporters that dont have much money left for a ticket after their ciggies and slab of VB for the weekend


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## Sean K (2 July 2009)

I think we've concluded that happiness will be found in very individual ways.


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## Garpal Gumnut (2 July 2009)

I am happy therefore I am.

gg


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## Gundini (2 July 2009)

I am happy that I have no debt, and a **** load of Gold....


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## RamonR (3 July 2009)

People interested in Happiness should investigate "Flow"

This occurs when you are doing something very interesting to you.
You become completely caught up in the moment.

I have experienced it a few times when doing a long distance bike ride.
Pushing myself a little bit to keep speed up with just a bit of pain.

A few minutes later I have had no thoughts and great feeling of euphoria.


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## Trevor_S (3 July 2009)

kincella said:


> I have no intention of full retirement from the workforce....am semi retired now...and its boring.....




This I DO NO GET  This is the best time of my life, being semi retired.

My entire working life has been towards perusing enough (which is subjective) material wealth to allow myself to enjoy doing things that have no fiscal reward.   I can't think of anything I do that has a fiscal reward that makes me happy, it's a means to an ends... I am happiest reading a book, or hiking in the bush to a wonderful waterhole, or exploring to find that waterfall or ... but I would rather "shoot myself" then have to write a review of that book to get paid, or take an escorted tour (after setting up my own wilderness guide company for example) to that enchanted spot to get paid, or having to take photos to get paid etc etc

My new sea kayak arrives in the next day or so, I am excited by the wonders I will find when out on it, the places I will explore 

On another tact, I thought this book interesting:

http://www.amazon.com/Against-Happiness-Melancholy-Eric-Wilson/dp/0374240663


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## wayneL (3 July 2009)

RamonR said:


> People interested in Happiness should investigate "Flow"
> 
> This occurs when you are doing something very interesting to you.
> You become completely caught up in the moment.
> ...




That's endorphin.



> Endorphins are endogenous opioid polypeptide compounds. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in vertebrates during strenuous exercise,[1] excitement, pain, death, and orgasm,[2][3] and they resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. Endorphins work as "natural pain relievers", whose effects may be enhanced by other medications.


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## Sean K (3 July 2009)

wayneL said:


> That's endorphin.



And known as 'runner's high'.


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## tech/a (3 July 2009)

RamonR said:


> People interested in Happiness should investigate "Flow"
> 
> This occurs when you are doing something very interesting to you.
> You become completely caught up in the moment.
> ...





I hear you!


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## Trevor_S (3 July 2009)

*Positive thinking can make things worse*

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25726759-23109,00.html



> Although positive thinking does appear to be effective when it's part of a broader program of therapy, on its own it tends to have the reverse effect of what it is supposed to do, said Dr Wood, urging self-help books, magazines and TV shows to stop sending a message that just chanting a positive mantra will raise self-esteem.


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## RamonR (3 July 2009)

It is not about the endorphins, but I couldn't rule out they play some part.

It is more about your whole concentration being directed towards something you find important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology).


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 July 2009)

I do like this thread gals and guys,

Keep it up.

gg


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## wayneL (3 July 2009)

RamonR said:


> It is not about the endorphins, but I couldn't rule out they play some part.
> 
> It is more about your whole concentration being directed towards something you find important.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology).




OK gotcha. Endorphin definitely a part of what you describe, but understand what you are saying.


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 July 2009)

wayneL said:


> OK gotcha. Endorphin definitely a part of what you describe, but understand what you are saying.




I must disagree.

As a sallow youth I spent 18 months living in Haight Asbury in San Fran.

I lived for the moment.

Sex drugs n rock n roll made me exquisitely happy.

As did being young.

Je ne regrete rien

I reckon now that I'm older that being young is the best basis for happiness.

As we age the sdnrnr becomes less of a palliative.

So happiness is for youth.

Contentment is for the rest of us.

gg


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## wayneL (3 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I must disagree.
> 
> As a sallow youth I spent 18 months living in Haight Asbury in San Fran.
> 
> ...



I hear what your saying.

Again it depends on what we call "happy".

But I observe that those in middle age seem to be the most unhappy. Je ne regrete rien turns into status anxiety. If those in middle age can tame that particular beast, then there is a chance of being "happy" (as I understand happy, which may be akin to contentment).

I think there may be a chemical reason too. Serotonin (the happy hormone) seems to decline as we get older. In my own case I find that I certainly have to manage my mind more diligently than when young.

I can attain happiness (again my definition) when I have my favourite philiosophies to the fore. When I forget and allow everyday life to crowd those thoughts out, it's easy to slip into self pity and misery.


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 July 2009)

wayneL said:


> I hear what your saying.
> 
> Again it depends on what we call "happy".
> 
> ...




I can hear what you are saying and agree.

As our knee cartilages degenrate, so do our brains.

I'm unsure as to the evidence for lower serotonin levels in mid life, but I see no reason to doubt it.

I guess it comes back to what a poster above said about reality versus expectation.

I find that looking at my peers , the most happy folk are those whose reality exceeds their expectation and vice versa.

When you are young its all unmeasured expectation and happiness follows if reality concurs.

As one ages, with experience, the happy reverse the algorithm, adjusting their measured expectation downwards  to reality, imperceptably.

Excuse the wordy response, but I've avoided comment on this topic as I'm a student of happiness.

gg


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## wayneL (3 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I guess it comes back to what a poster above said about reality versus expectation.
> 
> I find that looking at my peers , the most happy folk are those whose reality exceeds their expectation and vice versa.




I think that's about the crux of it, in the main. Hence the difficulty for those of us who want to improve our reality.

It's difficult to work for a better reality while managing expectations. It's a bit of a dichotomy.


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## Solly (3 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I must disagree.
> 
> As a sallow youth I spent 18 months living in Haight Asbury in San Fran.
> 
> gg




All the leaves are brown........??


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 July 2009)

wayneL said:


> I think that's about the crux of it, in the main. Hence the difficulty for those of us who want to improve our reality.
> 
> It's difficult to work for a better reality while managing expectations. It's a bit of a dichotomy.




Interesting.

I'll have to think and talk to garpaldog about it.

gg


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 July 2009)

Solly said:


> All the leaves are brown........??




Solly mate,

You are evil.

Everyone on ASF thinks you are such a nice altruistic person.

lol

Yes my leaves are brown, la di da.

Aint life good, and wouldn't it be nice to do it all again.

gg


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## Boyou (3 July 2009)

Aint life good, and wouldn't it be nice to do it all again.

Hey GG ..this might ring your bell..don't know how to embed you tubes..so heres the link...our old buddies from the Angles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6L0k-qZfw


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 July 2009)

Boyou said:


> Aint life good, and wouldn't it be nice to do it all again.
> 
> Hey GG ..this might ring your bell..don't know how to embed you tubes..so heres the link...our old buddies from the Angles.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6L0k-qZfw




Thanks mate

I used believe in insurrection, now I believe in resurection.

gg


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## Trevor_S (6 July 2009)

I though this timely.

*The New Economics Foundation, which compiled the Happy Planet Index*

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/australia-not-home-to-the-good-life-20090706-da7b.html



> If you want to live a good life, don't live in Australia




...



> A British think-tank has ranked countries based on the environmental impact, happiness and life span of their people.
> 
> Australia has fared badly at number 102.
> 
> A very large ecological footprint - one of the worst of the 143 countries surveyed - is to blame for the poor result.


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