# Bought my first shares: Am I doing OK?



## midou7172 (27 April 2013)

Hi everybody,

After some disappointments with different financial advisers, I am now on the way of “self-taught” investor.

At the beginning of March this year, I bought my first shares.
As I am a debutant, my starting fund was set to 5000$. I followed ASX share game and opened an online trading account with 15$ trading fee.

My strategy is mainly “buy & hold” until I really need that money or until my retirement (20 to 25 years to go).
I receive about 1000$ every 9 months from one of my savings. So I am planning to buy more shares with that money while I am still learning.

Below are my first shares. 
My choices were made from Top ASX 100. At lease I know what they are doing to make money. Also, I did some researches and these researches were combined with my gut feeling as well.
1.	Wesfarmers (wes) – total about 1200$
2.	Vangaurd High Yield EFT (vhy) – about 1600$
3.	Crown (cwn) – about 500$
4.	ANZ (anz) – about 1200$
5.	Santos (sto) –about 500$

Since, I even received 20$ dividend (Yeeeeeah~~) from VHY & CWN. 
On the paper, I recovered all the trading fees and unrealised profit is about 50$ (which will be consumed by trading fees if I sell them now).

As I am doing this all by myself, some feedback from experts will be appreciated. I’d like to know if I am doing ok, or doing something obviously stupid.

Also, I am not sure about Capital gain tax. I now have DRP in place for WES,STO and VHY but each dividend will be only a small amount. Does this mean nightmares for CGT later?  

Cheers,


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## merlinnn (27 April 2013)

I am the opposite to an expert, however I am curious as to your decision making process, particularly as you mentioned gut feeling. The only thing my gut feeling has done for me in the past was cause me to lose money. The only un-mentored success I've had in the market both in securities and FX has been support and resistance.


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## G Gekko (27 April 2013)

Hi,

I am a newbie as well. All seem ok in my personal opinion for a buy and long term hold strategy. I feel that especially with ANZ and CWN as they are both businesses almost with a license to print money, as long as our banks don't become exposed to any major credit risks like a mass default on mortgages.

I couldn't find STO so I can't comment on that, and I haven't got a lot of knowledge about VHY. Just wondering how you came across them and decided to pick them over another bank or something?

WES is a little overpriced for my liking but I'm almost certain that over the longer term when you go to cash out you'll have more money than what you put in regardless. It could be one of those stocks just remain overpriced while the market does well overall.


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## midou7172 (27 April 2013)

merlinnn said:


> I am the opposite to an expert, however I am curious as to your decision making process, particularly as you mentioned gut feeling. The only thing my gut feeling has done for me in the past was cause me to lose money.   only un-mentored success I've had in the market both in securities and FX has been support and resistance.




When you have different companies choose from and they have similar charactors and you know that you will never get confirmation about their future performaces, that's when my gut feeling kicks in.


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## midou7172 (27 April 2013)

G Gekko said:


> Hi,
> 
> I couldn't find STO so I can't comment on that, and I haven't got a lot of knowledge about VHY. Just wondering how you came across them and decided to pick them over another bank or something?




Thank you for your input.
As I didn’t have a lot of money to diversify my portfolio, I was looking into an index fund or EFT. Vangaurd seems to have a good track record in this area and I was willing to take a bit more risk by going with high yield fund. I thought for a long term, I will be able to recover that risk. 

For Santos, there is Santos building in Brisbane CBD (it helps to know that they are physically somewhere). But also, Santos is one of the big oil/gas company in Australia. If my memory serves me correct they are also expending in south-east Asia. My understanding about this business is, once the structure is built, you collect money from your customer. So they will make money until the day we don’t need gas/oil anymore. After few research, it seems to me that gas consumption will grow in Australia… That means more money for the people who built the structure. BHP is the big company in this kind but was too expensive for me. Hence I went for smaller guy. 
These were my 10cents worth of analysis… I hope this might help others.


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## burglar (27 April 2013)

midou7172 said:


> ...
> 1.	Wesfarmers (wes) – total about 1200$
> 2.	Vangaurd High Yield EFT (vhy) – about 1600$
> 3.	Crown (cwn) – about 500$
> ...




Coles or Woolies.
Dividends aplenty.
Gambling.
One of the big four banks.
Energy!

Yeah! FWIW I think you are doing Ok.

Brokerage may kill you with parcels so small.
I assume you will buy more of these.


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## midou7172 (27 April 2013)

burglar said:


> Brokerage may kill you with parcels so small.
> I assume you will buy more of these.




Yeah... will buy more of these. I am just concerned about CGT. If I build a quantity of my holding little by little, how do I caculate CGT later? Anybody has an idea?


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## burglar (27 April 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Yeah... will buy more of these. I am just concerned about CGT. If I build a quantity of my holding little by little, how do I caculate CGT later? Anybody has an idea?




*Profit* is more important than CGT. 
You will pay CGT on profit at your marginal tax rate (less discount if you hold for longer than 1 year).
Plenty has been posted on ASF regarding CGT.
There is info in the Supplementary Tax Pack.
Also the Austalian Tax Office website, or you can phone them.


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## midou7172 (27 April 2013)

burglar said:


> *Profit* is more important than CGT.
> You will pay CGT on profit at your marginal tax rate (less discount if you hold for longer than 1 year).
> Plenty has been posted on ASF regarding CGT.
> There is info in the Supplementary Tax Pack.
> Also the Austalian Tax Office website, or you can phone them.




Thank you for your info. There are so many things in this forum! This is a great forum but I am still trying to get my head around.


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## McLovin (27 April 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Yeah... will buy more of these. I am just concerned about CGT. If I build a quantity of my holding little by little, how do I caculate CGT later? Anybody has an idea?




Just record the purchase prices in Excel or something. Not too hard. When you sell you just record the sale price against each parcel and sum the totals.


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## midou7172 (27 April 2013)

McLovin said:


> Just record the purchase prices in Excel or something. Not too hard. When you sell you just record the sale price against each parcel and sum the totals.




Thanks. You saved me a lot of time!!! I can definitly do that.


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## sydboy007 (28 April 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Thank you for your input.
> As I didn’t have a lot of money to diversify my portfolio, I was looking into an index fund or EFT. Vangaurd seems to have a good track record in this area and I was willing to take a bit more risk by going with high yield fund. I thought for a long term, I will be able to recover that risk.
> 
> For Santos, there is Santos building in Brisbane CBD (it helps to know that they are physically somewhere). But also, Santos is one of the big oil/gas company in Australia. If my memory serves me correct they are also expending in south-east Asia. My understanding about this business is, once the structure is built, you collect money from your customer. So they will make money until the day we don’t need gas/oil anymore. After few research, it seems to me that gas consumption will grow in Australia… That means more money for the people who built the structure. BHP is the big company in this kind but was too expensive for me. Hence I went for smaller guy.
> These were my 10cents worth of analysis… I hope this might help others.




An option to the vanguard ETF is the ishares IHD.

Similar goals but I do like they limit sector weighting to a max of 20% and a single share to 4% so they can't go quite so all in on the financial stocks as some of the high yield funds have.

Maybe cost you a bit in yield, but will provide better protection should something scare the punters away from the bank stocks.

I have it in my SMSF and happy with the performance and yield is pretty good - 10K parcel has provided $433 in grossed up dividends over the last 2 qtr ie 8.66% annualised.  Throw in the 15% capital gain on top and gotta love the run up in the market since lat elst year.


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## sydboy007 (28 April 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Yeah... will buy more of these. I am just concerned about CGT. If I build a quantity of my holding little by little, how do I caculate CGT later? Anybody has an idea?




Your broker should also give you an annual statement each year.  Hopefully they will keep a track of the CGT as well.

But yeah as has been suggested excel is probably the easiest way to go


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## midou7172 (28 April 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> An option to the vanguard ETF is the ishares IHD.
> 
> Similar goals but I do like they limit sector weighting to a max of 20% and a single share to 4% so they can't go quite so all in on the financial stocks as some of the high yield funds have.
> 
> ...




It sounds certainly interesting. When I picked Vanguard, I realised that they had a big part in bank stocks which I am not that keen after all. Thanks for your tips. Something that I will definitly consider.


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## burglar (4 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> It sounds certainly interesting. When I picked Vanguard, I realised that they had a big part in bank stocks which I am not that keen after all. Thanks for your tips. Something that I will definitly consider.




WESFARMERS

How do you establish that it is a good company?

One good sign is that they have been around a while (have survived hard times).

The ten year graph shows they have been around for longer than 10 years!
It shows they survived the GFC in 2008.

WES did not always own Coles.
I can't remember when it was acquired.
The graph shows that they have rebuilt Coles.

Now the entire group is moving to new highs.






If you go to the Annual Report you will find the key statistics.
Alternatively, Key Statistics for WES.AX


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## midou7172 (4 May 2013)

burglar said:


> How do you establish that it is a good company?




Well, you can safely say that I was gambling. My choice was based on;

1. Wesfarmer is one of the ASX 100 company which I know of. 
2. Most of us go to their business on weekly basis. 
3. I like Coles, Target, Bunnings better than Woolies, Masters. 

All, about my personal choices rather than analysis.

Yes, the graph looks good! Good news for me but for how long... 



burglar said:


> Key Statistics for WES.AX




There is nothing I can see as significant on their Key Statistics. It looks like a ‘boring’, ‘safe’ company to bet for a long term which I was looking for.

I read that Coles goes into joint venture with ISPT. No idea whether that is good or bad idea.

What I really like to know is what do you see in Wesfarmers... please~~? *^.^*


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## burglar (4 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> ... What I really like to know is what do you see in Wesfarmers... please~~? *^.^*




Hi midou,

An interesting response!
Shall I be honest?
I hate the Coles, Woolies duopoly!
They are not good for Australia.
They make heaps from their customers 
but do not pass it back to their suppliers.
I could go on and on but no ....

I shop at Foodland. End of rant!


Back to WESFARMERS.

As a gambler, I see them as _safe_ and _boring_.
As an investor, I see them as a _good_ company.
They won't go broke!!
I don't think they are cheap, I have not checked the metrics.
But we have not yet discussed why they need to be cheap.
Long term investors don't sell except in extreme circumstances.
So does it matter?


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## waimate01 (4 May 2013)

Are you doing ok?  You're doing GREAT.

The reason lies is not so much which stocks you have chosen, but in the fact you have started investing and plan to continue doing so. It's a life-changing, prosperity-inducing step, and one which very few people actually make.

You'll make some mis-steps along the way, but the important thing is to read lots, think lots, and to make a start. The starting bit is the hardest and rarest, and you've already achieved it. You're doing great.


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## burglar (4 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> ... I read that Coles goes into joint venture with ISPT. No idea whether that is good or bad idea ...




$AUD532Million cash to play with?!


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## midou7172 (6 May 2013)

waimate01 said:


> Are you doing ok?  You're doing GREAT.
> 
> The reason lies is not so much which stocks you have chosen, but in the fact you have started investing and plan to continue doing so. It's a life-changing, prosperity-inducing step, and one which very few people actually make.
> 
> You'll make some mis-steps along the way, but the important thing is to read lots, think lots, and to make a start. The starting bit is the hardest and rarest, and you've already achieved it. You're doing great.




Thanks you waimate! 

Your "Encouragement" is like a pain relief to all these brick walls of jargon and stuffs which I am going thought!


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## midou7172 (6 May 2013)

burglar said:


> Shall I be honest?
> I hate the Coles, Woolies duopoly!
> They are not good for Australia.
> They make heaps from their customers
> but do not pass it back to their suppliers.




Hey burglar, 
I always want you to be honest with me! Otherwise, these conversations are pointless!
I totally agree with your moral principle about these business. Unfortunately, it is like banks, gambling business, etc... 
Our sad reality is there is always someone making money from someone else.



burglar said:


> I have not checked the metrics.




Metrics??? What metrics? That sounds very PRO! I like it!!! but I have no idea what are you talking about



burglar said:


> But we have not yet discussed why they need to be cheap.




No, we didn't. so... shall we discuss about that? 

I start:
1. Very simple. When you buy, it is always better if you pay less for a same product.
2. As you mentioned, dose it matter much when you invest in long term?


I hope you guys are all making good money today. Market seems to doing find today, so far so good.

Cheers,


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## burglar (6 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Hey burglar,
> I always want you to be honest with me! Otherwise, these conversations are pointless!
> 
> 1. Very simple. When you buy, it is always better if you pay less for a same product.
> 2. As you mentioned, dose it matter much when you invest in long term? ...




Hard for burglars to be honest, but I'm doin' the best that I can.

1.)
Yes, you pay less per share.
Most likely, you buy more shares!
The dividend is based on shares.

So ... more dividend!!

2.)
Yes, to some it matters!
Sometimes you will be holding as the shareprice falls below your purchase price. 
Can be scary for the feint hearted; especially if unexpected.
So you need to ask yourself questions about your psychology of trading/investing.
Will you hold in faith (noobies big and easy mistake, in my opinion)?
Will you panic sell (noobies biggest and easiest mistake, in my opinion)?
Will you have a pre-planned exit?

Much of this depends on how you feel about your money.

I write my money off as soon as I do a buy order.
That's the gambler in me!



midou7172 said:


> ... Metrics??? What metrics? That sounds very PRO! I like it!!! ...




I meant "financial measures" not knowing how broad this term is!? :




> Definition of 'Metrics'
> Parameters or measures of quantitative assessment used for measurement, comparison or to track performance or production. Analysts use metrics to compare the performance of different companies, despite the many variations between firms.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Julia (6 May 2013)

burglar said:


> I write my money off as soon as I do a buy order.


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## burglar (6 May 2013)

Julia said:


>




It allows me to sleep!


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## burglar (7 May 2013)

burglar said:


> It allows me to sleep!



Hi Julia,

I feel the need to explain. 
I put upto $3k on a pennydread.
I hope it will go up, but know it can go down.

It can make me extremely anxious!
I have two coping mechanisms.

One is to walk on the beach.  
Observing waves, I am overcome by an indescribable feeling of serenity!

The other alternative is to downgrade the importance of that money!
That saves me a trip to the beach.

Now I wish that I had said nought about it! :


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## dtraeger (7 May 2013)

Cool strategy burgler if your 2c share goes to 20c. But arent they also very illiquid or is there plenty of action down there?


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## burglar (7 May 2013)

dtraeger said:


> Cool strategy burgler if your 2c share goes to 20c. But arent they also very illiquid or is there plenty of action down there?




Did you mean something like this?


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## dtraeger (7 May 2013)

burglar said:


> Did you mean something like this?
> 
> View attachment 52058




Sure if you can pick it. 
Whats the liquidity like trying to sell at 20 though?


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## Longjaw (7 May 2013)

burglar said:


> It allows me to sleep!




..


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## midou7172 (8 May 2013)

Oh, there was a little conversation going on while I was doing my course on ASX website.

Talking about the Graph, I have this "Santos" shares in my tinny portfolio. It is the only holding going backwoods at the moment which I don't worry too much as I am holding for a long term. 

I am trying to figure out the trend by watching their historical share price(it seems very inconsistent). 

Anybody has a story to share about this company?

Cheers,


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## midou7172 (8 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Talking about the Graph, I have this "Santos" shares in my tinny portfolio. It is the only holding going backwoods
> 
> Cheers,




Sorry "backwards", not 'backwoods"... but maybe, it might went to a backwoods after all.


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## burglar (8 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Sorry "backwards", not 'backwoods"... but maybe, it might went to a backwoods after all.




Your joke ... I like it ... I like it a lot!


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## Cutty (8 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Thanks. You saved me a lot of time!!! I can definitly do that.




Hey Midou, Congrats on the start!
So I am currently educating myself on all things shares and come across a spreadsheet on the asx site. If you follow this link - http://www.asx.com.au/courses/shares/course_07/index.html?shares_course_07 and click on - Topic one - keeping records...... Within topic one click on page 3 in the bottom right on the screen and  It will give you an option to download the spreadsheet they offer.

Hope that helps.


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## burglar (8 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> ... I have this "Santos" shares in my tiny portfolio. ...
> 
> Anybody has a story to share about this company? ...




Let's start with a ten year graph.
Remember this is my opinion.

They have been around for more than ten years!
They have survived the GFC.
Since then they have not been over $16 and rarely under $12.

So they are "ranging".
What will it take to breakout of this range.
They are in Oil & Gas, a good drill result will probably do it.

They pay a dividend, 15 cents twice a year.
It is "better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick"
Note: "(humorous) better than nothing."


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## burglar (8 May 2013)

Some of the Santos Story:

This report from 21 Feb 2013:
Australia's Santos underlying profit up by a third!

Some metrics: Interesting PEG
STO.AX

Cooper Basin:
Cooper_Basin

Gladstone LNG:
Gladstone_LNG

ASX STO Annual Report 2012 (nice photos)
Annual Report:


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## midou7172 (9 May 2013)

Cutty said:


> Hey Midou, Congrats on the start!
> So I am currently educating myself on all things shares and come across a spreadsheet on the asx site. If you follow this link - http://www.asx.com.au/courses/shares/course_07/index.html?shares_course_07 and click on - Topic one - keeping records...... Within topic one click on page 3 in the bottom right on the screen and  It will give you an option to download the spreadsheet they offer.
> 
> Hope that helps.




Thanks Cutty, 
Funny you mention that, I found the same spreadsheet yesterday while I was doing my course on ASX site. 
Thank you for your tip anyway and good luck to you too!


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## midou7172 (9 May 2013)

burglar said:


> Let's start with a ten year graph.
> Remember this is my opinion.
> View attachment 52075




You know that your opinions are always welcome!


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## midou7172 (9 May 2013)

burglar said:


> Some of the Santos Story:
> 
> This report from 21 Feb 2013:
> Australia's Santos underlying profit up by a third!
> ...




Burglar, Thanks to sharing these stories with me. Yes, nice photos. The company seems to doing ok... just their shares are champing at "backwoods" at the moment


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## burglar (9 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Burglar, Thanks to sharing these stories with me. Yes, nice photos. The company seems to doing ok... just their shares are champing at "backwoods" at the moment




Comes back to "floating shares".
No matter how good a company is, if it has floating shares, then traders will _play_ with the share price.
Value Investors claim that over long time frames, the share price oscillates towards true value.

So you, and you alone, should judge. 
Is this a good company?
Is it cheap?
Where does its true value lay? 

If traders move the Share Price above true value, 
will you join the traders by selling and paying CGT?

Oh, so many questions.


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## burglar (13 May 2013)

midou7172 said:


> Burglar, Thanks to sharing these stories with me. Yes, nice photos. The company seems to doing ok... just their shares are champing at "backwoods" at the moment




Closed up on 5 consecutive days

10 May 2013
12.890

09 May 2013
12.830

08 May 2013
12.650

07 May 2013
12.530

06 May 2013
12.270


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## burglar (20 May 2013)

burglar said:


> ... What will it take to breakout of this range.
> They are in Oil & Gas, a good drill result will probably do it.




Here ya go!! 
First oil from Fletcher Finucane ahead of schedule:


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## midou7172 (22 May 2013)

burglar said:


> Here ya go!!
> First oil from Fletcher Finucane ahead of schedule:
> 
> View attachment 52298




Hi burglar,

Yes, I read the article. 
However my portfolio did move much... I am still holding onto it!


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