# A death that chills the heart of every person



## Prospector (27 May 2009)

On Monday my 19 year old son told me that a lad who was in the year below him at school was in Hospital with Meningococcal.  I was a little concerned for him, but thought, well, he would receive the treatment he needed (after all, he had played football for the School A team(AFL) the day before so he couldnt be that sick, could he!   His parents were overseas, but they were returning home asap.  That was fine, good they were coming home so quickly.

He was a little unwell Sunday; nothing major.  His ankles a little swollen but he had just played football so of course he would be a little sore.  In the early hours of Monday morning, he was taken to hospital.  

Monday morning he was put on life support.

Yesterday morning at 6am (Tuesday)  he had died.  

Jack was 18, he was a school prefect; he played in the A team for football and cricket.  He was the son of Oren and Jill Klemich, who both gladly gave their time to assist charity auctions throughout Adelaide.  They had been married for a long time, and still both really happy in their marriage, never a hint of anything.  Oren was a very well known real estate Agent in SA; he and Jill, wonderful people.  Jack was their only son, they have two lovely girls.

How fragile life is.  RIP Jack.  Your death has rocked the Saints Community.  You will be so very missed.


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## pointr (27 May 2009)

Some may see this as a macabre topic, it's not, its a reality check amongst the commerce we all enjoy. From a long paramedic career I can only agree that life is precious and while we have amazing physiological capacity to recover, sometimes ,even in the prime of life people don't.  My sympathies to those close to this young person.


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## Tink (27 May 2009)

Thats so sad Prospector 
You just never know one day from the next

Death close to home always makes you stop and reflect on the little things..

Sympathies to all close to him and hope your son is ok


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## Sean K (27 May 2009)

Terrible news. 

Just goes to show how fragile and fleeting life can be.


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## Garpal Gumnut (27 May 2009)

Very sad.

gg


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## Julia (27 May 2009)

I'm so sorry, Prospector.
Julia


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## Knobby22 (27 May 2009)

Terrible, what a waste.
K


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## gfresh (27 May 2009)

I lost 2 people close to me in the space of 12 months a few years ago.. Makes you realise you really have to spend as much time with a person as possible, as you never know how short the wick may be. And never take for granted the fact they will "always be there" in your life. 

Thoughts with them.


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## MS+Tradesim (27 May 2009)

Very sorry to hear that Prospector. I've had four people around me die in the last month, so I can appreciate how you feel but can only imagine how the parents are feeling.


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## Judd (27 May 2009)

Very, very sad and also traumatic for his family.

Condolences.


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## MrBurns (27 May 2009)

Thats just terrible, what do we know about this bug ? how did he get it ? this shouldnt happen in this century, this could have been anyone in any city in Australia so what do we know about it, it acts so quickly there seems to be no time to fight it.
That is just shocking, how about a few $bill to try and solve this one.


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

I know the emotionally crippled will be disgusted by this post but anyway here goes; the title of this thread is "A death that chills the heart of every person" Actually this does not chill my heart, in fact, shock, horror I am indifferent to it. People die every day, why should this one chill my heart in particular?


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## MrBurns (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> I know the emotionally crippled will be disgusted by this post but anyway here goes; the title of this thread is "A death that chills the heart of every person" Actually this does not chill my heart, in fact, shock, horror I am indifferent to it. People die every day, why should this one chill my heart in particular?




Sorry you need this explained but  - it's because it's close to home, it was so quick, there was no warning, it was a disease, not an accident, unusual swift and final, chilling.


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## Datsun Disguise (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> I know the emotionally crippled will be disgusted by this post but anyway here goes; the title of this thread is "A death that chills the heart of every person" Actually this does not chill my heart, in fact, shock, horror I am indifferent to it. People die every day, why should this one chill my heart in particular?




Not disgusted dhukka, what you say is true people do die every day. take a amonent to personalise this though. Think about someone you know and love with life and opportunity just begiinning to unroll before them. Then cut it short. If you take the time to reflect on almost any death and apply that scenario to those who are a part of your own life I'm pretty sure most people would feel a chill. Hopefully you too.


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## sting (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> I know the emotionally crippled will be disgusted by this post but anyway here goes; the title of this thread is "A death that chills the heart of every person" Actually this does not chill my heart, in fact, shock, horror I am indifferent to it. People die every day, why should this one chill my heart in particular?




Any death of a young person taken before the prime of his life by a disease that is known to man and should be researched and treatment made possible to combat this more readily. Whe can throw money around to causes and to overseas aid but we dont spend enough working to save lives of those whose illness we can diagnose but have trouble curing.

This is not the same as a motor vechile accident where we as fellow humans may spend a few seconds in thought for the family's involved this is a young bloke in a hospital and unable to get treatment because we have not done the research to get a cure.

So yes it does rock our world esp those of us with children knowing that their are illnesses out there that we cant do a thing about except pray that our kids dont get it.

UBIQUE


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## Prospector (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> I know the emotionally crippled will be disgusted by this post but anyway here goes; the title of this thread is "A death that chills the heart of every person" Actually this does not chill my heart, in fact, shock, horror I am indifferent to it. People die every day, why should this one chill my heart in particular?




Actually, if you dont understand why this situation is chilling then I think you are the emotional cripple.

Perhaps I could have used the title ' A sudden death that will chill people who have compassion' - that would have left you off the hook nicely.


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## Tink (27 May 2009)

I am pretty sure my kids had needles for Meningococcal when they were in primary school 
Does anyone remember them being given 10yrs ago roughly?


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Sorry you need this explained but  - it's because it's close to home, it was so quick, there was no warning, it was a disease, not an accident, unusual swift and final, chilling.




Exactly, it's close to home for those affected, not all, the presumption is that I should be chilled by this story, I'm not. If I do a google search I'll probably turn up a number untimely deaths in the last 24 hours or so, shouldn't we all be chilled by those as well?


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## Prospector (27 May 2009)

Tink said:


> I am pretty sure my kids had needles for Meningococcal when they were in primary school
> Does anyone remember them being given 10yrs ago roughly?




Unfortunately those jabs do not prevent the type of meningococcal that is the most frequent, and also most deadly form of this disease.  There are no immunisations for it.


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## Prospector (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> Exactly, it's close to home for those affected, not all, the presumption is that I should be chilled by this story, I'm not. If I do a google search I'll probably turn up a number untimely deaths in the last 24 hours or so, shouldn't we all be chilled by those as well?




If you dont find it chilling that an 18 year old can be perfectly healthy on one day, going about a normal life, not be in any accident, then within 24 hours be on life support in a coma the next and then passed away the next well, dunno really!

Please dont bother replying again; if you are not interested then find another thread to be in.  I really dont want to have a discussion about semantics and what does or does not affect you.


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## CAB SAV (27 May 2009)

My eldest son (fit, plays footy, cricket, indoor soccer)contracted meningitis out of the blue early Feb. Felt crook Sat. night, thought he was coming down with a flu, got worse, by Sun. night called a locum GP who said it was probably the flu, gave him an injection to stop vomiting & told him to take panadol.
Mon. morning I rushed him to hospital, within hours his condition deteriorated . Spent next 11 days in intensive care (with myself & or my wife) at his bedside before he started to pull through.  
Didn't seem fair that the world continued on. 

Always get a second opinion.


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## Tink (27 May 2009)

Thanks Prospector - had me thinking for a minute there..


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## Prospector (27 May 2009)

CAB SAV said:


> My eldest son (fit, plays footy, cricket, indoor soccer)contracted meningitis out of the blue early Feb. Felt crook Sat. night, thought he was coming down with a flu, got worse, by Sun. night called a locum GP who said it was probably the flu, gave him an injection to stop vomiting & told him to take panadol.  Mon. morning I rushed him to hospital, within hours his condition deteriorated . Spent next 11 days in intensive care (with myself & or my wife) at his bedside before he started to pull through.
> Didn't seem fair that the world continued on.
> Always get a second opinion.




Yes, that is it.  Almost identical - including calling the locum who in this situation thought viral infection.  Hope your son is ok - you no doubt are well aware of how 'lucky' he and you all are.


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> If you dont find it chilling that an 18 year old can be perfectly healthy on one day, going about a normal life, not be in any accident, then within 24 hours be on life support in a coma the next and then passed away the next well, dunno really!




Once again I don't find it the least bit chilling, it sounds like life to me, **** happens. 



Prospector said:


> Please dont bother replying again; if you are not interested then find another thread to be in.  I really dont want to have a discussion about semantics and what does or does not affect you.




But you want to have a discussion about what affects you because you think (wrongfully it turns out) it should affect everybody else in the same way.


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## Surfer35 (27 May 2009)

I think you are right Dhukka, but there's two paradigms operating here.

One is that for those personally involved, a loss such as this is comparable to their world falling in.

The other, less palatable, point is that anything which reduces our numbers on this planet is a necessary evil. 

We sit in daily witness to great swathes of our species being wiped out by disease, war, natural disaster; sometimes give a bit of coin and then erase it from our minds.

Truth is, most of these control measures will always be around in some form or another and while it is a tragedy for those affected, they are vital for our planet. But at present nature is fighting an uphill battle.

Depends whether you subscribe to the belief that the right of our species to propogate at the sake of all else is paramount.

I don't.


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## Judd (27 May 2009)

> any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.
> 
> Meditation XVII - Jon Donne (1572 - 1631)



Dwell on it for a few years.


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## moXJO (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> Once again I don't find it the least bit chilling, it sounds like life to me, **** happens.
> 
> 
> 
> But you want to have a discussion about what affects you because you think (wrongfully it turns out) it should affect everybody else in the same way.




Really? It is for me 

Was at a friend’s birthday party for his two year old son a few years back. Later that night the young fellow was in hospital with meningococcal and died early the next morning. Terrible experience to see a two year old enjoying himself one day and then not being here the next. 

So I can identify. 
But there is probably a greater message in that you should not let things slide on the thought of 'she'll be right'. Fast action can sometimes make a difference. 
Your right people do die all the time. But I feel empathy for those I meet that have lost a loved one.
I don't see what your argument is achieving. Apart from the fact you could care less about someone dying, but make an effort to throw a thread off track with indifference. I understand your point, maybe not the best thread for it though.


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## Surfer35 (27 May 2009)

Judd, seen plenty of death and not diminished in any way.

But, let's just say John was right, I am happy to allow myself to be diminished if it means this planet can survive.

Unleash the swine.


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## prawn_86 (27 May 2009)

Surfer35 said:


> But, let's just say John was right, I am happy to allow myself to be diminished if it means this planet can survive.




Really?? 

Why should you care if the planet survives? You would be dead. Personally i dont care what happens after im dead, i wont be around to see it.


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## Surfer35 (27 May 2009)

I think you'll find that Donne used the word "diminished" to mean negatively altered, not deceased.


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## prawn_86 (27 May 2009)

Surfer35 said:


> I think you'll find that Donne used the word "diminished" to mean negatively altered, not deceased.




Ok fair enough. Makes sense i guess


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## Timmy (27 May 2009)

Prospector, very sorry to read your opening posts, terrible news, awful.

----

Without wishing to take the thread off topic:  Dhukka - your post is the most insensitive I have ever seen.  We all have opinions, fair enough, but some of us know when it is appropriate to express them.


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## MrBurns (27 May 2009)

Timmy said:


> Prospector, very sorry to read your opening posts, terrible news, awful.
> 
> ----
> 
> Without wishing to take the thread off topic:  Dhukka - your post is the most insensitive I have ever seen.  We all have opinions, fair enough, but some of us know when it is appropriate to express them.




Agreed


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## Bushman (27 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> Once again I don't find it the least bit chilling, it sounds like life to me, **** happens.
> 
> 
> 
> But you want to have a discussion about what affects you because you think (wrongfully it turns out) it should affect everybody else in the same way.




Statistically, 'sh*t' does not just happen to fit 18 year-olds who are not involved in risk-taking activity. So it is not like commenting on someone's grandfather dying of a stroke. So I would say it is 'thread worthy'.  Also many investors are parents too and this is a human-interest story that deeply affects parents.  

You, too, have your right to express your 'casual indifference' to the topic. Then again, why you need to express your indifference, I'm not sure? If you are so unaffected, then you would not comment?


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

Timmy said:


> Without wishing to take the thread off topic:  Dhukka - your post is the most insensitive I have ever seen.  We all have opinions, fair enough, but some of us know when it is appropriate to express them.




Ahhh yes, the favourite trick of the emotionally challenged, offer consoling platitudes and act offended.


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

Bushman said:


> Statistically, 'sh*t' does not just happen to fit 18 year-olds who are not involved in risk-taking activity. So it is not like commenting on someone's grandfather dying of a stroke. So I would say it is 'thread worthy'.  Also many investors are parents too and this is a human-interest story that deeply affects parents.




What have statistics got to do with it? Life happens, unexpected or not, death is just another part of life. People die unexpectedly all the time, look Mike Tyson's daughter died from an accident yesterday. I'd say that was unexpected, why aren't we chilled to the bone over that?  



> You, too, have your right to express your 'casual indifference' to the topic. Then again, why you need to express your indifference, I'm not sure? If you are so unaffected, then you would not comment?




I am expressing indifference to a random death, I am very much interested in the topic.


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## Duckman#72 (27 May 2009)

Some of us know what you are saying Prospector. Very sorry to hear of the sad story that is so close to you.

It goes to show how quickly things can change. I spoke to somebody today that had been down visiting her brother in ICU. I didn't know what happened so offered her the comment that "I hope everything turns out well", she explained that "we are waiting on tests to see if he is going to be a quadraplegic - we know he is likely to be a paraplegic". Car accident.

How short life is!!! 

Yes dhukka - there are people dying all across the country, all the time, some under terrible circumstances. However we always expect it to happen to "others" not those people we know and love.

Duckman


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes dhukka - there are people dying all across the country, all the time, some under terrible circumstances. However we always expect it to happen to "others" not those people we know and love.
> 
> Duckman




Well that's a bit of naive attitude wouldn't you say? Kind of like expecting home prices to go up every year.


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## Garpal Gumnut (27 May 2009)

dhukka you seem to have missed the point of Prospector's thread, and it is his thread, expressing grief for a schoolmate of his son, whose parents he knew. 

The thread is not about whether this death chills or does not chill the heart of every person, any person or all deaths, or one, or none..

It is about the death of one young man, suddenly, without warning, or very little warning as is usually the case with meningococcal. 

Your arguments are logically and semantically correct but are quite inappropriate in a thread which is really about grieving for this young man's life, rather as one would if it happened to one of your own family.

Prospector is grieving. 

You have missed the point of the thread and I fear you will cause more distress for Prospector.

A few verses from Philip Larkin , Dublinesque, the last stanza about a Dublin funeral he witnessed.

And of great sadness also.
As they wend away
A voice is heard singing
Of Kitty, or Katy,
As if the name meant once
All love, all beauty. 

Now dhukka mate would you kindly **** off.

gg


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## Prospector (27 May 2009)

I have dhukka on ignore as I dont think such a sad event is worthy of argument about semantics of the heading.   So please dont feel you need to debate his argument, that seems to be encouraging his ongoing response. I can see his name so am presuming his posts are continuing with more of the same old same old.  Perhaps it is a boring time for him at the moment.  In any event I dont see what he is saying so please feel free to ignore him too.

The media here feel his death is worthy of acknowledgement; every change of shift in the particular radio station I listen to prefaces their session by paying their respects to the family.  

To those of you who 'get' my reasons in posting this, it is a reminder to appreciate every day with loved ones and friends.


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## dhukka (27 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> dhukka you seem to have missed the point of Prospector's thread, and it is his thread, expressing grief for a schoolmate of his son, whose parents he knew.
> 
> The thread is not about whether this death chills or does not chill the heart of every person, any person or all deaths, or one, or none..
> 
> ...




Garbled Wingnut, the points are not lost on me, I probably would be grieving if my brother was struck down dead suddenly. But I probably wouldn't be self indulgent enough to start a thread about my grieving over the random death of a son's acquaintance and expect everyone to empathize with me.


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## Mr J (28 May 2009)

I agree that this wasn't the place for discussion, but it should realised that this will affect people differently. While Dhukka's post was insensitive, there is value is what he is saying. Unfortunately, it's a topic that will stir up emotions and the value of different perspectives will be lost.


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## Sean K (28 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> Garbled Wingnut, the points are not lost on me, I probably would be grieving if my brother was struck down dead suddenly. But I probably wouldn't be self indulgent enough to start a thread about my grieving over the random death of a son's acquaintance and expect everyone to empathize with me.



dhukka, please do not alter members usernames around in an attempt to insult them. I am surprised you need to lower yourself to those means. Cheers, kennas


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## MrBurns (28 May 2009)

kennas said:


> dhukka, please do not alter members undernames around in an attempt to insult them. I am surprised you need to lower yourself to those means. Cheers, kennas




It seems you're gentler with him than he deserves, I'm not the least bit suprised at anything he does, he's shown his true colours.



> Originally Posted by dhukka
> Garbled Wingnut, the points are not lost on me, *I probably would be grieving* if my brother was struck down dead suddenly. But I probably wouldn't be self indulgent enough to start a thread about my grieving over the random death of a son's acquaintance and expect everyone to empathize with me.




Probably ??? what a great human being you are.


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## Prospector (28 May 2009)

*Re: A death that chills the heart of most people with half a brain*

Dhukka, (and I can see the crap you have written because it has been quoted) his death is chilling because it happened to a healthy young adult who 24 hours earlier was playing football.  

I didnt expect anyone to empathise with me about his death, why would I expect that people would be chilled by that!  Why would I expect people who dont know me to care?  I dont, although a few kind people did anyway.  

But no, you had to take the premise that this was a 'poor me' self indulgent thread.  You dont even know me fella!  

It was the fact that life can be taken away in an instant, even when you are not being reckless, foolish, taking risks, nada.  Not while driving a car, taking drugs, not even from a prolonged illness. That is chilling.  Well, for 99.9% of the population anyway.

And yeah, you would *probably* be grieving for your brothers death?  Kind of sums you up really.


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## Mr J (28 May 2009)

I don't really want to continue this, but I feel compelled to address the statements about Dhukka saying he would "probably" be grieving over the loss of his brother. Everyone has their own feelings about death, so just because someone doesn't conform to your own behaviour or beliefs does not mean that the death does not affect them. If he doesn't grieve, it doesn't mean he loves his brother any less than any of you love a loved one.


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## MrBurns (28 May 2009)

Mr J said:


> I don't really want to continue this, but I feel compelled to address the statements about Dhukka saying he would "probably" be grieving over the loss of his brother. Everyone has their own feelings about death, so just because someone doesn't conform to your own behaviour or beliefs does not mean that the death does not affect them. If he doesn't grieve, it doesn't mean he loves his brother any less than any of you love a loved one.






> I don't really want to continue this,



 Yes you do, or you wouldnt come back with such a load of rubbish.



> If he doesn't grieve, it doesn't mean he loves his brother any less than any of you love a loved one




Are you serious ? 

I give up there's no use arguing with people who are just "lacking'

They should however stear clear of threads that involve concepts that they dont feel or understand such as compassion and grief.


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## Mr J (28 May 2009)

> Yes you do, or you wouldnt come back with such a load of rubbish.




No I don't, because I realise how pointless discussion is here. Some people here are great, but others here just have their fingers in their ears and are completely convinced that their way is the only way.



> I give up there's no use arguing with people who are just "lacking'




I'm not the one who is lacking here. I accept that people act and feel differently, and don't judge them simply because they don't act like me. 



> They should however stear clear of threads that involve concepts that they dont feel or understand such as compassion and grief.




Some cultures celebrate death rather than mourn it. The statements of some here would suggest that they're wrong for doing so.


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## MrBurns (28 May 2009)

Mr J said:


> I'm not the one who is lacking here. I accept that people act and feel differently, and don't judge them simply because they don't act like me.
> Some cultures celebrate death rather than mourn it. The statements of some here would suggest that they're wrong for doing so.




You're lacking, among other things, any semblance of reason or compassion.



> Some cultures celebrate death




Well this is a culture that doesn't so go away and get a grown up to explain it to you.

_I think there's a dual login thing going here, there cant be 2 people as far off center as these 2 they must be one and the same._


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## dhukka (28 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Yes you do, or you wouldnt come back with such a load of rubbish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is typical of those that can't discuss topics such as death or grief in a rational manner but rather operate purely on emotion. 

I honestly don't know how I'd react to the death of brother because it hasn't happened.  It doesn't mean I don't care about the guy, people grieve in different ways, some cultures don't grieve at all, they celebrate death. I think westerners in general have a real problem with the way they deal with death.


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## MrBurns (28 May 2009)

This wasnt the place or the time for you to barge in with your personal ideaology, I'm not going any further with this you can talk to yourself, which is probably why you got to be who you are in the first place.


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## dhukka (28 May 2009)

*Re: A death that chills the heart of most people with half a brain*



Prospector said:


> Dhukka, (and I can see the crap you have written because it has been quoted) his death is chilling because it happened to a healthy young adult who 24 hours earlier was playing football.
> 
> I didnt expect anyone to empathise with me about his death, why would I expect that people would be chilled by that!  Why would I expect people who dont know me to care?  I dont, although a few kind people did anyway.
> 
> ...




So it takes the death of someone who you vaguely know for you to realize that life is fragile and can be taken away at any moment. Fascinating. Where do you get your 99.9% statistic from, did you conduct a poll? 

btw the media thinks a celebrity taking a dump is newsworthy.


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## Mr J (28 May 2009)

So judgmental, Mr Burns.


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## Timmy (28 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> This wasnt the place or the time for you to barge in with your personal ideology,




Agree.


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## Bushman (28 May 2009)

dhukka said:


> This is typical of those that can't discuss topics such as death or grief in a rational manner but rather operate purely on emotion.
> 
> I honestly don't know how I'd react to the death of brother because it hasn't happened.  It doesn't mean I don't care about the guy, people grieve in different ways, some cultures don't grieve at all, they celebrate death. I think westerners in general have a real problem with the way they deal with death.




I'm not sure I understand the premise of your argument though? Are you concerned about the media's portrayal of death and grief? Do you find it confronting that individuals use the medium of an internet discussion forum to express grief and remorse? Are you interested in death and grieving from a cultural perspective? 

Your responses seem angry and you seek to belittle rather than engage in a discussion? So is there an emotional angle to discussion that you are unwilling to reveal?  

It definitely is a topic of great interest from an anthropological point of view and death in the West is either sensationalised or is a taboo (i.e an 18 year-old dying of an infectious disease or in a car crash versus an older individual dying of cancer or suicide). But to have that discussion on a thread where an individual in our virtual community has expressed distress at their grief over the death of someone they know is at best bizarre, at worst callous and lacking in compassion. If you are seriously interested in an intellectual discussion on the topic then a new thread would be in order. 

That is my personal view on this. Sorry Prospector if my further engagement has caused you further distress.


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## Timmy (28 May 2009)

Bushman said:


> to have that discussion on a thread where an individual in our virtual community has expressed distress at their grief over the death of someone they know is at best bizarre, at worst callous and lacking in compassion. If you are seriously interested in an intellectual discussion on the topic then a new thread would be in order.




Well said, agree.  I think it was some sort of weird attention-seeking behaviour.


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