# Trading Tigers



## ice_28

Hello,

Has anyone heard of 'Trading Tigers'?  Jodie Ellis of Trading Tigers claims that their SPI trading strategy returns 1000%/year (or even more)?  
Their course costs $5000.

Has anyone done any of their courses?  

I'd like to hear from the current Trading Tigers members.

Thanks


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## cutz

1000 percent a year, sounds like a load of bollocks.


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## Gerkin

If its sounds too good to be true then it probably is?


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## nunthewiser

cutz said:


> 1000 percent a year, sounds like a load of bullocks.





Also known as "Bollocks" in these parts


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## cutz

nunthewiser said:


> Also known as "Bollocks" in these parts




lol,

Yeah, load of bollocks in these parts as well.


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## Wysiwyg

Looks like they claim to have caught the bounce from February. Introducing (luring?) more traders into the SPI is a good thing I suppose. Something to be learned every day whether you pay someone to learn or not.

Besides, all the testimonials made a packet. :


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## MichaelD

Let's see now.

Trade with $10,000

Year 1 - 1000% return

$10,000 -> $110,000

Year 2 - 1000% return

$110,000 -> $1,210,000

Year 3 - 1000% return

$1,210,000 -> $13,310,000


And all that for ONLY $5000.
Would YOU sell a strategy that could turn $10,000 into 13 million dollars in 3 years for $5000?

I didn't think so.


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## MRC & Co

I know 10,000% was possible in a year a year ago on the SPI, but that was the best day trading environment in history.

Of course though, I would like to see the trading tigers return that.  Only the best SPI traders in the country could return 1000% pa.

But you cannot compound it as MichaelD stated, as the liquidity is not there.  Once you step into doing double digit lots (10+), your strategy has to be altered.  If your trying to trade 60-100 lots, you have to build a position, very different to scalping as most day traders do, and so the same % returns are then not possible.


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## skc

I came across them at the Trading Expo stand.

The Tigers were actually much longer term trading strategy. They supposedly have win rates around 80%. Everything was compounded between trades.

Their trading was supposedly able to capture a lot of the movement in the SPI in 2008.. in fact a lot more than the bottom to peak range. They do have some risk management via position sizing in place, can't remember the details but it I remember thinking it doesn't take much of a negative move to wipe out the starting capital, especially compared to the profit (in terms of points) they were able to capture per trade. 

I didn't have a spare $5K in my pocket to find out the details however.


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## cornnfedd

this topic is full of win. 

pretty obvious if they SAY they can get 1000% then it MUST be true! Whats not to believe, the train in leaving, im ON BOARD.

TOOT TOOT this one is BIG BIG BIG.


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## Ardyne

Started by a single poster who joined the same day and we havent heard from them since. I cant beleive this is still around.


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## skc

Ardyne said:


> Started by a single poster who joined the same day and we havent heard from them since. I cant beleive this is still around.




How can you tell that poster was single? He might be married with a few kids. Are you a psychic?


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## sails

skc said:


> How can you tell that poster was single? He might be married with a few kids. Are you a psychic?




lol skc...  the original thread starter has only ever contributed one (single) post at ASF to date and never returned...  

IMHO - more likely to be spam than not.


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## beachlife

I did it and also did the day trading course.  Lost around $15,000 so including course fees around $25,000 down the drain.

This sounded like a great opportunity but turned out to be just another seminar trap selling course after course.  There are multiple courses and the methods he uses to get the results he gets are not fully disclosed in the first course.  I was a member for more than 1 year and I have no idea how he turns $8000 into $84,000+.  He doesnt disclose every trade he does so it's hard to learn exactly how he does it.

On top of the course fee there is an ongoing annual fee.  If you stop paying they uninstall the tigers part of your software and you cant even see your old data/trades.

I have no doubt he is a great trader but he wasnt able to teach me how to do it.


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## reef750

Hi Beach, 
Sorry to hear you went for the full package, but after being burnt it will hopefully teach you to be a better trader.... alll the best


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## rocknroll

With the SPI you're attempting to trade the future value of 200 stocks that make up the XJO index. That's during the day market. If that's not difficult enough ... how about the night market ... when XJO is not even trading?

Jody highlights at the start of his courses that SPI/index trading is difficult and is a risky business. Fair enough. It's not for everybody. FEAR factor. However, he implies...  independent reviewers put him as one of the top 10 "gun" traders in the country and his portfolio is returning a truck load of money YTD. In other words ... do what I say and there's a high probablity you'll make lots of money too. GREED factor.

Who/where are these independent reviewers? 

Do the maths ... course costs $4,000 (deduct $400 GST). 

10 people in a year that's 40 grand. Train 100 people and that's 400 grand etc. Plus there's annual subs to keep your membership current ... that's another 2 grand per annum per member.  Nice earner in a rising/falling/sideways market ... for a few days work and 20 or so group e-mails. 

After 12 months, I found the methodolgy/results to be dissappointing. Consequently I didn't bother to renew my membership for a 2nd year.


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## >Apocalypto<

ice_28 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Has anyone heard of 'Trading Tigers'?  Jodie Ellis of Trading Tigers claims that their SPI trading strategy returns 1000%/year (or even more)?
> Their course costs $5000.
> 
> Has anyone done any of their courses?
> 
> I'd like to hear from the current Trading Tigers members.
> 
> Thanks




I can tell you now if it made a consistent 1000% per year they would not be selling it.

It would be just way to valuable!!!!!!

tell them to f#%k off and stop selling snake oil.


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## ABCD

>Apocalypto< said:


> I can tell you now if it made a consistent 1000% per year they would not be selling it.
> 
> It would be just way to valuable!!!!!!
> 
> tell them to f#%k off and stop selling snake oil.




The Trading Tigers Methods do work made 25% Jusst last week on my account. Futures are high risk and high reward. Unfortuneatly a lot of people dont follow the rules and get greedy then lose a lot of money. I say go for it if you are level headed with a high amount of disipline


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## Spark

ABCD said:


> The Trading Tigers Methods do work made 25% Jusst last week on my account. Futures are high risk and high reward. Unfortuneatly a lot of people dont follow the rules and get greedy then lose a lot of money. I say go for it if you are level headed with a high amount of disipline




 I am attending one of the Trading Tigers 3 hour SPI Futures workshops. Are you still trading with their methodology, and is it working out for you?


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## matty77

Spark said:


> I am attending one of the Trading Tigers 3 hour SPI Futures workshops. Are you still trading with their methodology, and is it working out for you?




yes yes of course you are.

please let us all know how it goes.


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## waimate01

I saw Jody present at the AIA conference last week. A very entertaining presentation, and very seductive. He showed how you can make 40% by exploiting a pattern that occurs every Melbourne Cup day. Pretty much guaranteed. You find yourself thinking, "well, yes, maybe this could really work". 

It's all too seductive, which is why I didn't go along to the free 3hr session. 

If the system really worked, sharing it would reduce its effectiveness. And if it really worked, Jody wouldn't be selling training for a living.


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## SIFIIK

ice_28 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Has anyone heard of 'Trading Tigers'?  Jodie Ellis of Trading Tigers claims that their SPI trading strategy returns 1000%/year (or even more)?
> Their course costs $5000.
> 
> Has anyone done any of their courses?
> 
> I'd like to hear from the current Trading Tigers members.
> 
> Thanks




Just saw this and as a paid up Trading Tiger I would like to offer the following. Each year is different in the market. 2009 was an especially good (and difficult one for the TTs)

Jody's coure involves introducing members to a particular type of analysis of the market -- quite different to Fundamental and technical.

The trading tigers make the same trades on the same day each year regardless of market conditions and the only thing that prevents some people from enjoying spectacular results is their succumbing to greed, fear and the inclination to not follow a very clear set of rules. 

Al trades are advised in advance a day or two ahead of the entry time by Jody with a number of targets and the various probabilities of those targets being reached. There are other strategies that he teaches to protect one's positions and limit losses to a pre-determined amount, without an overnight position being subjected to wild and volatile movements that otherwise would not be seen during the trading day.

If the rules are followed to precision then historical probability says that a Trading tiger can generate very good returns. 

He makes all the trades himself and this trading account is audited by a large internationally known firm of accountants at the end of each year.

Last year (2012) was a difficult year by usual standards and this account generated somewhere in the vicinity of 200-250% return.

I didn't achieve this because I broke a few rules and succumbed to my fears, greed and my higher and better knowledge of the moment - which of course failed to be the case.

One thing I can say about Jody (p.s. I do not work for or with and never have anything to do with TT or Investor Centre), is that he is genuinely & passionately interested in each individual Trading Tiger doing well. I from observation - see him frustrated by those that venture from the rules and suffering accordingly.

It is money well invested to do his course - it may seem simple but the real challenge is to follow the rules.

Hope this helps.

He also runs a Platinum Tigers course which ventures into discretionary trading in the Aust SPI future and the S&P500.


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## SIFIIK

waimate01 said:


> I saw Jody present at the AIA conference last week. A very entertaining presentation, and very seductive. He showed how you can make 40% by exploiting a pattern that occurs every Melbourne Cup day. Pretty much guaranteed. You find yourself thinking, "well, yes, maybe this could really work".
> 
> It's all too seductive, which is why I didn't go along to the free 3hr session.
> 
> If the system really worked, sharing it would reduce its effectiveness. And if it really worked, Jody wouldn't be selling training for a living.




Actually sharing it strengthens it - see my reply post to Ice_28  - the trades are done same time every year regardless of market direction at the time. The trading tigers members number about 400 at any one time and with a broker arrangement in place, everyone's entry trades can be implemented simultaneously. Exit trades trades will depend on the targets selected by individual members from a list provided prior to the entry of targets along with a probability % of that target being achieved. He states what target he will aim for and places that trade in a special TT trading account which is audited for authenticity at the end of the trading year by a reputable (international & located in Australia) accountancy firm. Trading year runs from mid-January to mid-January

The Melbourne cup trades (there are two actually) have been successful every year for the last 30 years except one - I can't remember whether it was 2011 or 2012. Not a bad return in anyone's books.


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## SIFIIK

waimate01 said:


> It's all too seductive, which is why I didn't go along to the free 3hr session.




On a personal note and absolutely nothing to with being a Trading Tiger myself, the above comment is tantamount to someone not seeing a film or reading a book because someone else said it was crap. Ridiculous! and usually made by the type of person that is vulnerable to their own emotions of Greed & Fear. 

Better you (and the other naysayers) stay out of the market altogether me thinks - or better still consult an Australian bank employed financial adviser; they're great


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## tech/a

> Last year (2012) was a difficult year by usual standards and this account generated somewhere in the vicinity of 200-250% return



.

is there a privately audited varification of the account returning these figures
OR
are they simulated figures.

Is the method traded live Like a few others are 
(obviously only available to members who join and recieve the info).

I often see figures bandied about which are only here say with no way of varification.


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## prawn_86

If this system is so good we would love to see the trades posted live and give members here a chance to follow it.

Or as Tech says, audited broker statments to prove the return claims

Why anyone would pay 5k for any form of financial course is well beyond me


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## SIFIIK

tech/a said:


> .
> 
> is there a privately audited varification of the account returning these figures
> OR
> are they simulated figures.
> 
> Is the method traded live Like a few others are
> (obviously only available to members who join and recieve the info).
> 
> I often see figures bandied about which are only here say with no way of varification.




Try reading my post and you will see that he opens an account each mid January with $10,000 and places every trade exactly as he advises the members to do so, These are real trades not simulated and they are verified at the end of the 12 months (mid January) by an auditor along with the broker's records of the trades having been placed.

So to answer your question succinctly: They are live trades and after each trade is completed and finalised, a progressive report is provided and then the International (located in Australia) Auditors verify them to be true and accurate.

Hope this helps


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> If this system is so good we would love to see the trades posted live and give members here a chance to follow it.
> 
> Or as Tech says, audited broker statements to prove the return claims
> 
> Why anyone would pay 5k for any form of financial course is well beyond me




Contact Jody Elliss at Investor Centre Brisbane - you can speak to Trish if he is unavailable; 07 3390 5130.

There will always be naysayers but if you are serious - follow up on this or stick to chewing your cud


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> If this system is so good we would love to see the trades posted live and give members here a chance to follow it.
> 
> Or as Tech says, audited broker statments to prove the return claims
> 
> Why anyone would pay 5k for any form of financial course is well beyond me




There is one currently in play starting at Close of Trade today (Thursday 14th Feb) - ending Tuesday 19th. Short Mar 200 SPI - no stops in the night market (you will need to be a member to know the protection strategies available to those that wish to employ them), looking for targets ranging between 28 points and 42, although historically this particular trade has shown movements of in the vicinity of 70 points and greater. 5040 is a significant number in the March SPI as is 4900

There is a stop for the day market (members know it) and this trade is related to the Presidents Day Holiday in the US that falls next Monday.

Check it out and see what you think.


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## prawn_86

ASF is a trading community so feel free to post the trades live in this thread as many others here do when they buy or sell somehting and then we will see how great it is.

A quick search reveals 3 links saying that this is just another money making machine for the owners, leaving those purchasing high and dry. If it really was so easy they wouldnt be selling it:

http://tremblinghandtrader.typepad.com/trembling_hand_trader/2008/01/black-box-full.html

http://trishjenkins.com.au/wp-conte...ous-Wealth-as-eBook-by-Trish-Jenkins-2011.pdf

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8252 (already a previous thread here on ASF)


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> ASF is a trading community so feel free to post the trades live in this thread as many others here do when they buy or sell somehting and then we will see how great it is.
> 
> A quick search reveals 3 links saying that this is just another money making machine for the owners, leaving those purchasing high and dry. If it really was so easy they wouldnt be selling it:
> 
> http://tremblinghandtrader.typepad.com/trembling_hand_trader/2008/01/black-box-full.html
> 
> http://trishjenkins.com.au/wp-conte...ous-Wealth-as-eBook-by-Trish-Jenkins-2011.pdf
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8252 (already a previous thread here on ASF)




I've provided you with the current trade details and it seems I have wasted my time on a skeptic. Why bother - go dig a hole and hibernate. Give it till Tuesday Close to decide - you asked for details of a trade - you've got it live

Last night took 28 points and looking for re-entry - this continues throughout the weekend to EOD Tuesday


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## rnr

prawn_86 said:


> ASF is a trading community so feel free to post the trades live in this thread as many others here do when they buy or sell somehting and then we will see how great it is.
> 
> A quick search reveals 3 links saying that this is just another money making machine for the owners, leaving those purchasing high and dry. If it really was so easy they wouldnt be selling it:
> 
> http://tremblinghandtrader.typepad.com/trembling_hand_trader/2008/01/black-box-full.html
> 
> http://trishjenkins.com.au/wp-conte...ous-Wealth-as-eBook-by-Trish-Jenkins-2011.pdf
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8252 (already a previous thread here on ASF)




The above post would seem to be somewhat misleading.

" A quick search reveals 3 links *saying that this* (*implied Trading Tigers*) is just another money making machine for the owners, *leaving those purchasing high and dry*. If it really was so easy they wouldnt be selling it:"

The first link only refers to "Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader software" and hopefully are you inferring that there is some link between them.

A quick skim of the ebook in the second link reveals a quote by the author, Trish Jenkins, (refer page 18) which hardly meets the search criteria. 

"According to Mr. Jody Elliss, best-selling author, futures trader and *one of my most respected finance mentors*, the number one rule of trading is:"

Whilst the third link, to a previous ASF thread which ended up off topic, involves one disgruntled poster who had attended the Trading Tigers course and wouldn't recommend it to others.
My take on this post is that they failed because they didn't follow the trades as specified.


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## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> Last night took 28 points and looking for re-entry - this continues throughout the weekend to EOD Tuesday




So you have already closed the trade? Or is it still open? Will you advise us if these 'secret' stops are hit?


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> So you have already closed the trade? Or is it still open? Will you advise us if these 'secret' stops are hit?




The trade is currently waiting for a re-entry (that more than likely will be hit any moment - only 6 points away approx) - as mentioned this trade allows targets to be hit and then re-entry made right through to Tuesday. So hang on to your britches Mr Cynic - I know you are looking for a "told you so" outcome but there is no point seeking cracks until they appear - I promise to keep you up-dated - HONESTLY. Who knows it could fall over. No-one claims to be right 100% of the time. Jody's historical data shows these annual trades have success rates ranging from 66% to 100%.

even 66% is pretty damn good


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## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> The trade is currently waiting for a re-entry (that more than likely will be hit any moment - only 6 points away approx) - as mentioned this trade allows targets to be hit and then re-entry made right through to Tuesday. So hang on to your britches Mr Cynic - I know you are looking for a "told you so" outcome but there is no point seeking cracks until they appear - I promise to keep you up-dated - HONESTLY. Who knows it could fall over. No-one claims to be right 100% of the time. Jody's historical data shows these annual trades have success rates ranging from 66% to 100%.
> 
> even 66% is pretty damn good




So what rate are you targeting for re-entry? It would be nice if you could set out the entire entry/exit/re-entry rates when you take the trade so then members can monitor it themselves also, otherwise it looks as though you are just hindisght trading (which i am not saying you are but it may create that impression)

Alternatively feel free to send through the broker statements to one of the Mods and they will verify that all these trades were taken and are 100% correct


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## SIFIIK

rnr said:


> The above post would seem to be somewhat misleading.
> 
> " A quick search reveals 3 links *saying that this* (*implied Trading Tigers*) is just another money making machine for the owners, *leaving those purchasing high and dry*. If it really was so easy they wouldnt be selling it:"
> 
> The first link only refers to "Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader software" and hopefully are you inferring that there is some link between them.
> 
> A quick skim of the ebook in the second link reveals a quote by the author, Trish Jenkins, (refer page 18) which hardly meets the search criteria.
> 
> "According to Mr. Jody Elliss, best-selling author, futures trader and *one of my most respected finance mentors*, the number one rule of trading is:"
> 
> Whilst the third link, to a previous ASF thread which ended up off topic, involves one disgruntled poster who had attended the Trading Tigers course and wouldn't recommend it to others.
> My take on this post is that they failed because they didn't follow the trades as specified.




Spot on! - Fear & greed leads to panic and breaking the rules. I've done it and lost. I've observed and made good returns


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> So what rate are you targeting for re-entry? It would be nice if you could set out the entire entry/exit/re-entry rates when you take the trade so then members can monitor it themselves also, otherwise it looks as though you are just hindisght trading (which i am not saying you are but it may create that impression)
> 
> Alternatively feel free to send through the broker statements to one of the Mods and they will verify that all these trades were taken and are 100% correct




Targeting the same as my original entry point - I think you can appreciate you are just fishing for specific details in advance i.e. the easy way - just track what I am telling you and you will see the honest outcome come Tuesday pm - as far as the "hindsight" cynics - history shows that unless an individual overtly attempts to change their repeating patterns they will continue to make the same decisions/judgements

We sign confidentiality agreements, I am an honest person and have no invested interest in you subscribing to anything to do with TTs. But I also respect that we have are registered group receiving privileged information. just a few of points away from re-entry now


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## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> We sign confidentiality agreements, I am an honest person and have no invested interest in you subscribing to anything to do with TTs. But I also respect that we have are registered group receiving privileged information. just a few of points away from re-entry now




So its a few points away but you cant tell me what you are targeting? 

Are you an employee of Trading Tigers or any other company associated with Jody Elliss? Or do you gain any form or financial incentive from promoting his products?


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> So its a few points away but you cant tell me what you are targeting?
> 
> Are you an employee of Trading Tigers or any other company associated with Jody Elliss? Or do you gain any form or financial incentive from promoting his products?




Goodness gracious! - perhaps you could read my posts in their entirety _ i have already stated that I have no vested interest in TT whatsoever (and no related companies) except that I am a continuing paying member. I receive no recompense, financial or any other form from "promoting" as you put it. Just look at your use of that word. Yet denigraters are authentic by implication, but not bitter losers

I saw these posts and saw that a lot of cynics (Read can't follow the rules) had posted negative comments. I thought that in the interest of a balanced view and coming from someone that has made all the mistakes, you might be interested to hear another side. To date all your posts to me have implied "ulterior motive", financial benefit, cynical comments (that by the way paint an interesting picture of you).

I repeat I am an honest being with no ties to Trading Tigers or Investor Centre other than being a persistent member despite MY mistakes, that sees that if an individual can put away their emotions and follow these simple rules - then you should be able to generate significant returns. The greatest difficulty is enjoying a successful trade and then having the patience to wait for the next one to come along.

Phew! 

p.s. still waiting for re-entry - market hovering at the moment. Only a few point away as previously mentioned


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## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> Goodness gracious! - perhaps you could read my posts in their entirety _ i have already stated that I have no vested interest in TT whatsoever (and no related companies) except that I am a continuing paying member. I receive no recompense, financial or any other form from "promoting" as you put it. Just look at your use of that word. Yet denigraters are authentic by implication, but not bitter losers




Thanks for your answer, i just need to check as it is ASF policy for company workers to disclose their connections.

Are there audited results? If so who audits them? Are they available to the public? If not, why not? Can I obtain a copy in order to verify them?

I must admit i am still struggling to get my head around why someone would pay so much for a course, and if the course is so succesful then why those selling the course dont just trade for themselves or start their own hedge fund and take on investors. And then why those who do pay have to sign non disclose agreements and cant say what levels they are targeting or where their stops are set


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> Thanks for your answer, i just need to check as it is ASF policy for company workers to disclose their connections.
> 
> Are there audited results? If so who audits them? Are they available to the public? If not, why not? Can I obtain a copy in order to verify them?
> 
> I must admit i am still struggling to get my head around why someone would pay so much for a course, and if the course is so succesful then why those selling the course dont just trade for themselves or start their own hedge fund and take on investors. And then why those who do pay have to sign non disclose agreements and cant say what levels they are targeting or where their stops are set




RE: audited results? - read my Posts - they are audited at the end of the trading year (mid January) by an international and located in Australia Accountancy firm and verified by them. Contact investor Centre for this information 07 3390 5130.

Re: dont just trade for themselves. He does and is a multi multi - he is a car fanatic and in addition to his something like 18 luxury cars he has a boat etc etc. I repeat - he does this and more and is keenly interested in sharing the knowledge to ensure that those interested will be recognised by ASIC when the bans come into force (They already are in force in a number of countries such as France).

It is a fact whether you are seeking wealth, personal development, peace of mind or whatever - people are less likely to persist if they do not need to make a financial investment.

Re: why those who do pay have to sign non disclose agreements. Go figure fool

I choose not to disclose my targets, because I am honourable and as you seem, as I said previously - to be fishing for a freebie.

P.s. Trade is now active again - re-entered just a few moments ago. 

if you do your sums - you might be able to figure out what that entry price is


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## prawn_86

Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens... 

What exit level are you targeting?

Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...
> 
> What exit level are you targeting?
> 
> Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?




Firstly apologies for calling you a fool; I don't mean that. 

Off the top of my head I cannot recall the auditor but I think it is KPMG but I have seen them in the past - Jody publishes the KPMG findings to the tigers each year - I just don't keep them. I've given you the phone number and you can call them - why do you persist in sounding so cynical. I am not trying to convert you; just trying to provide you answers to your queries.

re levels - as I have stated in the past there are a number of targets provided with probabilities of them being achieved. Members choose the targets they feel most comfortable with. They range from 28 points to 70 points in this particular trade, but as also mentioned this particular trade has shown results of 140 points also.

I chose to take the 28 point target last night as the US market appeared to be strengthening (as it did). This has allowed me to now re-enter at the same price as yesterday with 28 points in my pocket. So I could hang out for a large target or I can accumulate by bunny hunting - see below for explanation

I naturally am targeting a larger win currently, say approx 50 points but may do the same again (its called bunny hunting - in, out & in again on the rebounds) with smaller targets. (Tigers usually hunt gazelles but occasionally will hunt a smaller prey). I will assess it progressively (I expect there will be a sizeable a fall in the US market tonight) and if the market goes into steep fall then I will increase my target but if it hovers I might hunt a bunny again. 

Does this help?


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...
> 
> What exit level are you targeting?
> 
> Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?




I'm just not sure why you call it hindsight trading when I have given you information that can be validated if you look at the charts. Try starting at yesterday's 4pm & closing price on the March SPI. I have told you that I am back in now and was holding out for a level which was achieved after 2.00pm - I'm being pretty transparent without breaching my confidentiality clause, Please don't call it hindsight when I have given you starting date, finishing date and a couple of strategies available to us throughout that period. All measurable - none hindsight


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## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...
> 
> What exit level are you targeting?
> 
> Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?




We also have an alternative strategy that allows us to "ambush" for an entry at a higher level than the nominated entry point - this allows for shifts in the night market and sometimes day market to "add weight" or simply enter 50% strength at the nominated level and then 50% at an ambush level (% ratios can be varied also).

So whilst I have re-entered at full strength after 2pm, and as I am up for the year on my capital, I also have placed an order for an additional 50% at ambush at a level in the low 5000s but not teens. Looks like I could be lucky and be set in that as well. Nevertheless I am now back in at full strength as mentioned. The stop for this if it is set remains the same as for the original entry i.e. it is tighter, limiting my loss on the additional entry if it occurs.

As mentioned previously we do not have stops in the night market and whilst this sounds dangerous as the night market can be subject to volatile swings we have strategies for placing covering insurance in the night market. Generally these insurance strategies apply to a long position due to the possibility of a "crash down" as a result of very bad news or what is called a "fat finger trade". Short positions are less in need of these insurance strategies as "crash ups" rarely occur.

Tell me if you are enjoying these explanations or at least appreciate them.


----------



## tech/a

Personally no not enjoying the condescending confrontational exchanges.
Directed toward the Prawn

Tigers/Gazzells ----- and plenty of succulent Bunnies.

Now I'm a duck and I can spot a rabbit miles away!


----------



## SIFIIK

tech/a said:


> Personally no not enjoying the condescending confrontational exchanges.
> Directed toward the Prawn
> 
> Tigers/Gazzells ----- and plenty of succulent Bunnies.
> 
> Now I'm a duck and I can spot a rabbit miles away!




Sigh, Sorry to confuse you - was trying to use an analogy that normally a tiger would seek a substantial meal (target) but occasionally when that is not on offer a smaller morsel has to do.

Glad you can recognise a rabbit. Responses may sound condescending but frustration at posts with detailed info not being read and then questions along same lines being asked. I think the prawn is appreciative (slowly) at the picture I am painting.

We'll see. Meanwhile keep on keeping on


----------



## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> Still seems like hindsight trading to me, but we'll let it play out and see what happens...
> 
> What exit level are you targeting?
> 
> Why cant you tell us which accounting firm is the auditor?




Hi Prawn,

just thought I'd let you know the trade was stopped out this morning. Official result - losing trade.

Oh well better next time


----------



## prawn_86

What level were you stopped at?

Feel free to keep posting live trades to show how this system works


----------



## ftw129

SIFIIK said:


> Hi Prawn,
> 
> just thought I'd let you know the trade was stopped out this morning. Official result - losing trade.
> 
> Oh well better next time




Hi SIFIIK,

What sort of position sizing does Jody advocate per trade in relation to your overall total trading bank?


----------



## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> What level were you stopped at?
> 
> Feel free to keep posting live trades to show how this system works




Interestingly at the maximum 5033. Sometimes we wonder if our broker is not playing against us sometimes - but hey there is plenty to wonder about in this market. Not to worry - no-one has ever claimed all of our trades are successful. Over the course of the year I expect to make a sound profit.

As per posting live trades - i certainly don't feel obligated but I may contact you personally as the only other comments made to date have been cynical without any apparent interest

Thanks for your patience.

As mentioned I promised to be honest


----------



## SIFIIK

ftw129 said:


> Hi SIFIIK,
> 
> What sort of position sizing does Jody advocate per trade in relation to your overall total trading bank?




He is very strong on both Risk Management and Money Management.

Those that lose and become disillusioned often break these rules as a result of their succumbing to the age old killers in the market - greed and fear

We never take a position greater than a conservative, set % of our total trading capital. naturally after this trade my next position will be smaller. As gains are accumulated the % remains the same but positions become larger. There is only one trade in the year that traditionally has been so successful that we might increase that % and that is one of the last trades in the year, so it cannot decimate your capital. 2011 was the first time in history that trade lost

by taking a set % it is not possible to lose all your capital - but of course it can diminish towards zero if all trades were to be losing trades


----------



## ftw129

Thanks SIFIIK,

I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience here and I'm sure many others do too. Including the ones that are skeptical.

Hopefully you can understand why they are. If not, why not ask the question?

Personally, I will read this thread with interest should it continue.

So far, from reading many threads similar to this, there is one common theme to ALL of them. That is, there is a lack of ongoing documentation of the success of these, what I will call, "packaged strategies". 

Some boast to have been going for over 10 years and having "educated" and sold to many thousands of people, yet I am yet to come across one that has been able to demonstrate that it has been successful in not only packaging and selling their product BUT have a long list of success stories that are willing to come forward and say something along the lines of "YES, I have traded this product for 5 years now and it works! I have achieved all of the claims that have been made and my returns have averaged XXXX per annum. I and thousands of others have been doing this for years now and it works!"

Maybe I've missed it but if any other members of this forum can point me to a thread that shows something along these lines I'd be very grateful as I may have missed it.

SIFIIK, I am not at all doubting the ability of Jody to make consistent returns using his own methods. I just want to witness someone be able to successfully emulate one of these "packaged strategies" for an extended period of time.

I totally understand your apprehension in providing so much value to a forum that is ready to challenge such things with great vigor but hopefully you can understand that this looks like a carbon copy of so many similar threads that eventually fade off and the defenders disappear having pretty much proved nothing and in many instances have just damage the reputation of the "products".

People just want proof. However, "audited results" of the owner of the product just won't cut it. What matters is  the students/members results over a prolonged period of time.


----------



## SIFIIK

ftw129 said:


> Thanks SIFIIK,
> 
> I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience here and I'm sure many others do too. Including the ones that are skeptical.
> 
> Hopefully you can understand why they are. If not, why not ask the question?
> 
> Personally, I will read this thread with interest should it continue.
> 
> So far, from reading many threads similar to this, there is one common theme to ALL of them. That is, there is a lack of ongoing documentation of the success of these, what I will call, "packaged strategies".
> 
> Some boast to have been going for over 10 years and having "educated" and sold to many thousands of people, yet I am yet to come across one that has been able to demonstrate that it has been successful in not only packaging and selling their product BUT have a long list of success stories that are willing to come forward and say something along the lines of "YES, I have traded this product for 5 years now and it works! I have achieved all of the claims that have been made and my returns have averaged XXXX per annum. I and thousands of others have been doing this for years now and it works!"
> 
> Maybe I've missed it but if any other members of this forum can point me to a thread that shows something along these lines I'd be very grateful as I may have missed it.
> 
> SIFIIK, I am not at all doubting the ability of Jody to make consistent returns using his own methods. I just want to witness someone be able to successfully emulate one of these "packaged strategies" for an extended period of time.
> 
> I totally understand your apprehension in providing so much value to a forum that is ready to challenge such things with great vigor but hopefully you can understand that this looks like a carbon copy of so many similar threads that eventually fade off and the defenders disappear having pretty much proved nothing and in many instances have just damage the reputation of the "products".
> 
> People just want proof. However, "audited results" of the owner of the product just won't cut it. What matters is  the students/members results over a prolonged period of time.




Appreciate your thoughts FTW. when I saw this thread it was not a call to defend (the Trading Tigers program) that drew me in but to perhaps provide some insight into the mechanism as best i could to the naysayers. Faceless negativity really is a weak form of offense. Bit like someone you're dating txting you to tell you it is over rather than telling you face to face or at least voice to voice.

Incidentally this trade that you have been following also failed last year and that is unusual. It is true - bad news travels fast and good news travels last, but perhaps I might continue to post when other trades are on.

A loss early in the year inevitably affects the final outcome at the year end as we do work on a stringent Money Management policy. i.e. I will be entering with a smaller position in the next trade due to a reduced capital base compared to prior to my entry into this trade just passed.

Given that, in order to provide some forewarning to the naysayers - the next trade will be somewhere around 13th-15th March. it will be a long trade in the March SPI. I guess I can give the following statistical info without breaching confidentiality. Historically it has been successful 83% of the time with the best result being approximately 60pts and the worst loss approx 25 points.

Unlike the trade just past this next trade will be a one time entry only - i.e. no strategy to re-enter if and when profits have been taken. 

Again I will post info after I have entered the trade, as I will not be suckered into giving anyone a free ride and also to preserve my agreement to confidentiality. I will give the same type of info as I have on this occasion. One thing I can say is that the outcome of this trade can be affected if Easter is close to it (which it isn't in 2013) as oil tends to rise prior to Easter and this of course has an impact on the mining influenced Australian market. So I will have a clearer idea of the probable strength of this trade in the week of its entry.

I am presuming the trade following that will be somewhere around the expiry of the Mar SPI followed by the following trade being around Easter although both occur fairly close to each other this year and therefore might run into one trade rather two.

Hope this provides enough info well prior to the event so that the naysayers do not allege I am just making them up.

Cheers, All

Last year not one TT reported a loss on this next trade even though it was a little tricky.


----------



## prawn_86

If you are only trading once a month or so, then what aco**** size do you need? If you take 60 points at best the account is not going to grow very fast utilising proper money management (2% rule), and that is assuming a 100% win rate


----------



## ftw129

SIFIIK said:


> Incidentally this trade that you have been following also failed last year and that is unusual. It is true - bad news travels fast and good news travels last, but perhaps I might continue to post when other trades are on.
> 
> A loss early in the year inevitably affects the final outcome at the year end as we do work on a stringent Money Management policy. i.e. I will be entering with a smaller position in the next trade due to a reduced capital base compared to prior to my entry into this trade just passed.




Thanks SIFIIK for the reply,

I was happy to leave it at that but I do feel the need to let you know (in case you don't) that most experienced traders understand that EVERY trading plan will suffer losses and that even if there is a string of them that deviates from the statistics of the strategies "norm", over time, probability and risk management "should" prevail.

So please don't be discouraged to post, even if there is a string of losses. There may be noise and "I told you so's" but eventually it should work out... right?

The truth will come out in the end


----------



## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> If you are only trading once a month or so, then what aco**** size do you need? If you take 60 points at best the account is not going to grow very fast utilising proper money management (2% rule), and that is assuming a 100% win rate




Many assumptions there Prawn.

1. I didn't say that trades are once a month

2. I didn't say all trades return 60%

3. I didn't mention anything about 2%.

As you would know if you know anything about Money Management - you can start with any amount of money as long you are able to afford the margin of 1 contract and meet the money management guidelines. Of course if your first trade turned out to be a loss then you would not be able to continue.

I think most people advocating trading in highly leaveraged indices suggest a starting bank of say $10,000, but it is not imperative


----------



## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> Many assumptions there Prawn.
> 
> 1. I didn't say that trades are once a month
> 
> 2. I didn't say all trades return 60%
> 
> 3. I didn't mention anything about 2%.




1. Next trade is in March, roughly a month away so i extrapolated from that could be wrong.

2. I said 60 points, not %

3. 2% is a very standard risk management rule that every short term trader knows about. Do you risk more than this per trade? 

Im sure someone out there could work out what 60 points off 10k account size equates to if employing correct money management, but it wouldn't grow the account very fast imo (which isnt a bad thing but seems well below the TT claims)


----------



## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> Appreciate your thoughts FTW. when I saw this thread it was not a call to defend (the Trading Tigers program) that drew me in but to perhaps provide some insight into the mechanism as best i could to the naysayers.




So if you have an interest in finance, stocks, trading and economics why is this the only thread you have posted in?


----------



## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> 1. Next trade is in March, roughly a month away so i extrapolated from that could be wrong.
> 
> 2. I said 60 points, not %
> 
> 3. 2% is a very standard risk management rule that every short term trader knows about. Do you risk more than this per trade?
> 
> Im sure someone out there could work out what 60 points off 10k account size equates to if employing correct money management, but it wouldn't grow the account very fast imo (which isnt a bad thing but seems well below the TT claims)




1. previously I said approx 20 TT trades per year. 52/20=2.6 weeks
2. typo error on my part. Some trades are smaller profit results and other are significantly higher but as I said members can choose the % probability of the various targets offered and also those various trades that offer re-entries can result in accumulated profit results in the one trade. Once the stop has been hit however, the trade is over

If you remember, I took 28 points profit Thursday night so my loss was 28 points less than the stop level above my entry - not too costly in this case in fact minimal. Other TTs may not have taken that profit and would have borne the full loss of being stopped out. As I said there is a degree of flexibility/choice available to the members but the stop loss is fixed (unless of course they succumb to greed or fear).

To be very clear - not all TT members necessarily experience the same number of points profits in their trades. Some are more accomplished than others and when there is choice sometimes luck can play a part (either way).

3. I said 60 points win (in that particular case) not loss. Money management combined with risk management means most emphatically that one can limit their loss against the suggested stop level to ensure they do not lose any more than their calculated amount they are prepared to. i.e. nominated stop loss equated to a $ amount means you can choose the number of contracts (no greater than the Money Management rule) to enter such that you know your total loss. There was never mention of 60 points loss


----------



## SIFIIK

prawn_86 said:


> So if you have an interest in finance, stocks, trading and economics why is this the only thread you have posted in?




Duh!


----------



## prawn_86

SIFIIK said:


> Duh!




Clever answer...

Every post by you (except one) has been in this thread. It is very rare for that to be the case in any other thread, especially where a member is expressing a contrary opinion/trying to change current opinions.

My spam sense is still tingling


----------



## brty

Prawn,

What I have gathered so far from this thread is that the trading parameters are seasonal trades, based on some calendar type event based on historical performance. This is no new revelation, people have been doing this for years, it is usually a little bit successful in ag commodities, for some...

Several comments are at odds with each other. The trading vehicle appears to be the SPI, yet there is a comment that it can be traded with a $10,000 account. There are also comments about changing size up or down according to whether the trades are winning or losing, yet the current initial margin for the SPI appears to be $6,000 from here..

http://www.asx.com.au/data/clearing/marginrates.pdf

This would make changing position size impossible on a $10,000 account. You have either 1 or 0 contracts. 

At $25/point for the SPI, and knowing how it can move 100 points fairly quickly, that puts 25% of account at risk, irrespective of where you put your stop, especially in after hours market or keeping a position open overnight.

The only way to get around this problem would be to trade a CFD, and we have heard from various posters about what happens when you are successful there.

Another inconsistency that I see is the statement about 400 traders all putting on the same trade at the same time with the same broker, at the close of the day. Assuming all traders were minimum account size holders, then there would be 400 new positions that could go into negative territory overnight. My understanding is the overnight is just too thin to deal with that volume, though I have not bothered to look it up.

Your spam sense may be tingling, I'm just laughing at the entire concept.

My opinion is that you would need at least $50k account size to trade the SPI intraday (up to 2-3 contracts if screen watching), and at least $100k for keeping overnight positions, for 1 CONTRACT.


----------



## cynic

SIFIIK said:


> Interestingly at the maximum 5033. Sometimes we wonder if our broker is not playing against us sometimes - but hey there is plenty to wonder about in this market. Not to worry - no-one has ever claimed all of our trades are successful. Over the course of the year I expect to make a sound profit.
> 
> As per posting live trades - i certainly don't feel obligated but I may contact you personally as the only other comments made to date have been cynical without any apparent interest
> 
> Thanks for your patience.
> 
> As mentioned I promised to be honest




When I first met Jodi in 2011, he was recommending use of the OTC CFDs on offer by a specific financial sevices provider (a market maker-not a broker!) within the industry. He claimed that the provider was the only one in Australia (of the OTC market presumably) that accurately reflected the SPI pricing. Has this situation changed or are you still using the same provider and experiencing the same integrity of pricing?

P.S. Thanks very much for continuing to post despite the skepticism expressed to date. There's just a little more that I could say regarding my perception of Jodi's approach, but will withhold my comments for the moment.


----------



## brty

I just had a quick look at their web page. You get these pearls of wisdom...



> Some of the trades disclosed in this course have NEVER FAILED in the last eight years! They are not technical trades, they are tactical trades, where you will trade for a specific target, on a specific day, at a specific time! You will know the dates of these trades months in advance!




Well here is a freebie trade from the brty school of never fail trading that has never failed in the last 14 years, sorry must remember to highlight NEVER FAILED. You could make a fortune by following this one trade...

Buy CBA shares on the first trading day of April (hopefully 1st April) and sell when there has been a $1.60 rise in the share price. I was going to choose $2, except 2011 only went up $1.60. In most years the trade works within the first month, sometimes up to 3 months, and once or twice 7-8 months. Sometimes stops need to be 'wide' to accommodate stockmarket vagaries.

I'm sure I could find 4 other trades that have 8 years of history if I could be bothered trying, the April fool's day trade was too hard to ignore, such is my real opinion of this type of gambling.


----------



## SIFIIK

cynic said:


> When I first met Jodi in 2011, he was recommending use of the OTC CFDs on offer by a specific financial sevices provider (a market maker-not a broker!) within the industry. He claimed that the provider was the only one in Australia (of the OTC market presumably) that accurately reflected the SPI pricing. Has this situation changed or are you still using the same provider and experiencing the same integrity of pricing?
> 
> P.S. Thanks very much for continuing to post despite the skepticism expressed to date. There's just a little more that I could say regarding my perception of Jodi's approach, but will withhold my comments for the moment.




Hi Cynic, thanks for your post and encouragement. I need to continue to remind myself that I have no obligation to continue to feed the skeptics, but I will continue to post to advise of future trades.

Yes you are right it is a market maker that TTs use. Regarding others posts re speculation of account size and and volume in night markets etc, you probably know about more about that which I am mentioning. e.g. Trade strategies, protection strategies in the night market, stringent money management and risk management. I don't need feel any obligation to explain specifically. 

Regarding the market maker - in the past TTs were so numerous in their successful trades that it caused the company to incur considerable losses (in the low millions) in one particular year. Since then they have had a complete change of personnel and there have been occasions where it is suspected that have targeted TTs but negotiations have been ongoing and TTs have employed a bit of a diversion strategy to offset the possibility of them targeting our trades. 

During the day this market maker does guarantee to provide TTs a finer spread than their individual clients (as is the case for most of their substantial sized clients - similar to bank lending - finer rates for larger accounts) but of course the night market is still dependent on demand & supply and therefore there are significantly greater spreads offered. (only one of several reasons why we have no stops in the night market but deploy protection strategies if warranted)

There have been other market makers that have pitched for the business but they have fallen by the way or been purchased by other organisations. It is an intricate process involving negotiation that I do not fully understand that dictates whether other market makers are considered. Don't know enough about it to go into it.

FYI there is "speculation" that an unaccountable $1.5 billion has poured into the AUS market recently and it is not local money (read international) and I think the odd person can guess where it might have come from. I personally do not know but have my thoughts also.

Consequently Tigers are completely out of this market at the moment despite an optional trade for the Platinum Tigers (not TTs - they are not aware of it) being on the horizon i.e. we will not opt in.

As for others speculating on account size, position size, improbabilities etc, you possibly know enough of how it works to know that these speculations are right off the mark.

Cheers


----------



## SIFIIK

cynic said:


> When I first met Jodi in 2011, he was recommending use of the OTC CFDs on offer by a specific financial sevices provider (a market maker-not a broker!) within the industry. He claimed that the provider was the only one in Australia (of the OTC market presumably) that accurately reflected the SPI pricing. Has this situation changed or are you still using the same provider and experiencing the same integrity of pricing?
> 
> P.S. Thanks very much for continuing to post despite the skepticism expressed to date. There's just a little more that I could say regarding my perception of Jodi's approach, but will withhold my comments for the moment.




Hi All, 

As mentioned I said I would post again after I returned to my desk and I have done so last evening. I indicated back in Feb that there would be a TT long trade on the Mar SPI contract about now.

Whilst I was unavailable and out of any contact with the world there was TT trade advised to execute (there is always a day or two warning incidentally). This trade was activated last Friday afternoon on the March 200 SPI contract. It is a long position and as you will all have seen this morning the market has opened significantly lower (Seemingly because of the Euro Zone mandate that all Cyprus bank depositors must contribute 10% of the their deposits toward a bank bail out in return for shares in the bank - huge ramifications for the Euro zone and other bank depositors in peripheral Euro Zone countries). 

I fortunately have entered this am on the open for a much more attractive position. This trade will run for a few days (Obviously, as the March contract expires this week) and the target although optional for all TTs is advised to have been dependent on where the opening position was in relation to the 5100-5115 mark - i.e. above or below. So I expect many Tigers will target a smaller target (you can figure it out yourselves where the opening price is in relation to this 5100-5115 marker). Incidentally those that entered normally on Friday have not reached their stop loss (calculated on the highs and lows of certain day markets) but their insurance strategy would have been triggered if they opted for that. This would have resulted in them closing the insurance option this morning for an equivalent loss of about 12 SPI points (inevitably they must add this to their opening position)

Because of my entry price today, I am in the fortunate position to seek a very large target in excess of 50 and less than 100 points but I will option only 50% of my position for this target. I will option for the other 50% to exit for a specific target of more than 25 and less than 50 points. As usual I will not disclose specific numbers for reasons of confidentiality, but TTs that read this will know exactly the numbers I am talking.

So the only other aspect of this trade that I should specify up front is that if the targets are not met then I will let the position run to expiry and be closed out by the exchange, which of course may be profitable and may not.

I will keep you updated as best I can in this usual format. Its an interesting one this one


----------



## SIFIIK

SIFIIK said:


> Incidentally those that entered normally on Friday have not reached their stop loss (calculated on the highs and lows of certain day markets) but their insurance strategy would have been triggered if they opted for that. This would have resulted in them closing the insurance option this morning for an equivalent loss of about 12 SPI points (inevitably they must add this to their opening position)




Sorry everyone that cares - I'm obviously jet lagged. 

The insurance strategy I mentioned this morning; if closed at 10.00am would have netted a PROFIT equivalent to approx 12 SPI points so that would be deducted from their Friday entry value, i.e. entry price less 12 points.

Those with a little more experience might choose to play their insurance position out for a while and currently it would be showing them a marginally better profit - this is not something that is generally recommended unless there has been a significant world event affecting world markets.

Sorry for the erroneous post earlier


----------



## Trembling Hand

SIFIIK said:


> Sorry everyone that cares - I'm obviously jet lagged.
> 
> The insurance strategy I mentioned this morning; if closed at 10.00am would have netted a PROFIT equivalent to approx 12 SPI points so that would be deducted from their Friday entry value, i.e. entry price less 12 points.
> 
> Those with a little more experience might choose to play their insurance position out for a while and currently it would be showing them a marginally better profit - this is not something that is generally recommended unless there has been a significant world event affecting world markets.
> 
> Sorry for the erroneous post earlier




What "insurance position"? What is that?


----------



## waza1960

SIFIIK 
  Could you possibly shed some light on a comment Jody made at a recent ATAA meeting which I  attended.
   He stated that short CFD postitions as a hedging instrument were desirable due to the interest paid on those
   positions.(which I agree with).

   However he stated that long CFD positions cost up to 80%/yr in costs 
  Can you confirm this ?
   Did I misinterpret?

  I sent an email but have received no reply as yet:1zhelp:


----------



## Trembling Hand

waza1960 said:


> However he stated that long CFD positions cost up to 80%/yr in costs




As these dudes always talk minimum margin on margin that would sound about right.


----------



## waza1960

> minimum margin on margin




  Can you explain/expand on this TH


----------



## Trembling Hand

waza1960 said:


> Can you explain/expand on this TH




If you have a position that has the value of $100,000 dollars and margin of 2% then these dudes always quote the position "cost" them $2000 but the interest is payable on $100,000.

$100,000 worth of interest on $2000 capital. Would easily be 80% per yr.


----------



## waza1960

> If you have a position that has the value of $100,000 dollars and margin of 2% then these dudes always quote the position "cost" them $2000 but the interest is payable on $100,000.
> 
> $100,000 worth of interest on $2000 capital. Would easily be 80% per yr




  Well that seems to be a disingenuous way of looking at it.
  Surely the "position" is $100k and thats it.
  IMO its dangerous to look at a position like that especially for the novice trader who can confuse 
    real position re risk/leverage etc.

  What's the advantage of listing a position like this?
   If you use this description of a position then a short position would also pay a large amount of interest?


----------



## Trembling Hand

waza1960 said:


> What's the advantage of listing a position like this?




Ha! so when you make $1500 in the example you can quote return on minimum margin. Look this trade just made me 75% with 10 minutes work!!!


----------



## SIFIIK

waza1960 said:


> SIFIIK
> Could you possibly shed some light on a comment Jody made at a recent ATAA meeting which I  attended.
> He stated that short CFD postitions as a hedging instrument were desirable due to the interest paid on those
> positions.(which I agree with).
> 
> However he stated that long CFD positions cost up to 80%/yr in costs
> Can you confirm this ?
> Did I misinterpret?
> 
> I sent an email but have received no reply as yet:1zhelp:




Sorry Waza, I can't help you. I haven't a clue what it means.


----------



## SIFIIK

SIFIIK said:


> Hi All,
> 
> As mentioned I said I would post again after I returned to my desk and I have done so last evening. I indicated back in Feb that there would be a TT long trade on the Mar SPI contract about now.
> 
> I will keep you updated as best I can in this usual format. Its an interesting one this one




Ok two losing trades in a row. Not seen since 2010. the entry position on Friday was not great and therefore a larger stop loss than usual - with insurance strategies reaping me about 42 SPI equivalent point my net loss comes in at about 38 points.

Not a good start to the year; as we look to compound our trading account, losses early do affect final year outcome. 

Oh well persistence and belief.

Until the next trade, which will be next weekish (maybe earlier) and prior to Easter. It will be a SHORT trade and run for potentially a number of days - possibly more than a week

Till then - honesty as promised


----------



## Trembling Hand

SIFIIK said:


> with insurance strategies reaping me about 42 SPI equivalent point my net loss comes in at about 38 points.




What are the " insurance strategies" you are talking about?


----------



## SIFIIK

Trembling Hand said:


> What are the " insurance strategies" you are talking about?




Sorry Trembling Hand, if you read back over these posts since February - I am not prepared to divulge specifics for two reasons. Primarily I have signed a confidentiality agreement to not disclose this information.

I am posting only because naysayers love to denigrate others without really knowing what it is about they denigrate. Given I cannot and will not divulge specifics, I have offered to be honest and advise in advance where I can of TT trades. The point of this is not to divulge a method specifically but to go on the record to provide an opportunity for the naysayers (and others who might be interested) to count the beads and see how it pans out at the end of the year.

To date this year of 4 trades - 1 was cancelled and thus really only 3 trades, the first a win but the last have been two losses and rather heavier than we would prefer at this time of the year. So trading account is down and therefore next trades will be smaller in size

SIFIIK


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## Trembling Hand

SIFIIK said:


> Sorry Trembling Hand, if you read back over these posts since February - I am not prepared to divulge specifics for two reasons. Primarily I have signed a confidentiality agreement to not disclose this information.
> 
> I am posting only because naysayers love to denigrate others without really knowing what it is about they denigrate. Given I cannot and will not divulge specifics, I have offered to be honest and advise in advance where I can of TT trades. The point of this is not to divulge a method specifically but to go on the record to provide an opportunity for the naysayers (and others who might be interested) to count the beads and see how it pans out at the end of the year.
> 
> To date this year of 4 trades - 1 was cancelled and thus really only 3 trades, the first a win but the last have been two losses and rather heavier than we would prefer at this time of the year. So trading account is down and therefore next trades will be smaller in size
> 
> SIFIIK




What a absolute load of utter BULL sh&%.


This is clearly spam.


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## SIFIIK

Trembling Hand said:


> What a absolute load of utter BULL sh&%.
> 
> 
> This is clearly spam.




Believe what you want, how you want - everything is only perception anyway,

Sorry you feel so angry - I have no obligation to provide this info nor do I benefit from doing so. I can stop it now if that is what the forum wants


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## Trembling Hand

SIFIIK said:


> Believe what you want, how you want - everything is only perception anyway,
> 
> Sorry you feel so angry - I have no obligation to provide this info nor do I benefit from doing so. I can stop it now if that is what the forum wants




You cannot post half the story and expect anyone to take you seriously. Either you have something to show or you have nothing but BS. So far yours is the latter.


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## Boggo

I always find it amusing seeing the online appearance of these spruikers. They obviously do the rounds of all the forae with the same talking down to people with the "free seminar" approach.
They would obviously like to convince all that they are the only ones in the room who know how to trade profitably.

Funny thing is that most of them seem to rapidly come undone on here on ASF, a combination of a somewhat smarter group with very sensitive bullsh!t detection abilities around here I think 

This thread is worth reading again from this post onwards (if you feel the urge to be amused)...
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17871&p=512686&viewfull=1#post512686


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## Alvin Purple

Thanks for that Boggo. I was certainly amused.


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## SIFIIK

Alvin Purple said:


> Thanks for that Boggo. I was certainly amused.




Hi Guys, 

As mentioned previously (in Feb), I have no affiliation with this or any other organisation. I do not contribute to any other forum nor have I in the past, nor do I benefit in anyway whatsoever from doing so. I believe that if Jody was aware I was doing this he might be a bit pissed off as I am not the best trader in the TTs and arguably not really knowledgeable enough to even post here at all - which is why I do not give any explanations for fear of being wrong and misrepresenting (also because I have signed a confidentiality agreement), and in any case why would I give free info to the cynics anyway?

I happened to stumble upon this forum and saw that the majority of posters seemed to be naysayers and thus I simply started to offer to provide a little info on the TT trades. Not to spruik, not to entice nor promote TTs either in its own right or by way of comparison to other parties' offerings.

It was simply an opportunity to show progressively throughout the year how this particular methodology's results pan out (win or lose) rather than people being told about past performance; which as we all know, retrospection is 20/20 clear. 

I thought that that might be of interest to some to hear it progressively, but it seems it is just fodder for the cynics, naysayers, know-better-than-you(s) and generally people who seem to enjoy abusing third parties and in the course of doing so abusing and insulting third party individuals

For that reason I shall desist posting anymore and leave you with the results you want to hear - 1 win - 2 losses at this stage of the year and capital slightly reduced from its starting point. As for the remaining 18 trades that are performed in the same periods throughout the year I hope for my sake that they are more successful as this is the year I could go under or keep my head above water.

Thanks to those that have been supportive and interested to hear my meagre postings 

SIFIIK


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## AverageJoe

SFIIK, I am just curious if the Easter system was profitable this year?


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## SIFIIK

AverageJoe said:


> SFIIK, I am just curious if the Easter system was profitable this year?




Please see my post above - no more food for the vultures - sorry


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## AverageJoe

SIFIIK said:


> Please see my post above - no more food for the vultures - sorry





Genuine Q. I was not convinced after attending his seminar that placing such a large stop ie, no stop overnight, is such a good idea and we all know that after Oz business hours the XJO can be much more volatile following the DOW/SP500. Form your sensitivity to my Q, I take it the Easter system was not profitable this year. We move on to the FY end system.


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## brty

Just to show that anyone can work out some seasonals, you don't need to subscribe to anything, I posted the following back in February in this thread....



> Well here is a freebie trade from the brty school of never fail trading that has never failed in the last 14 years, sorry must remember to highlight NEVER FAILED. You could make a fortune by following this one trade...
> 
> Buy CBA shares on the first trading day of April (hopefully 1st April) and sell when there has been a $1.60 rise in the share price. I was going to choose $2, except 2011 only went up $1.60. In most years the trade works within the first month, sometimes up to 3 months, and once or twice 7-8 months. Sometimes stops need to be 'wide' to accommodate stockmarket vagaries.




The record is now 15 years in a row, with the opening price on 2 April (no trading on April fools day this year) of $68.25. 

I have no doubt that Trading Tigers will now include this in their super duper $5000 "exclusive mentoring" gold membership class, if they have such a thing.


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