# My AustSuper ASX300 'low cost averaging' trading adventure



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical’s - AustSuper ASX300 ‘low cost averaging’ trading adventure.

I have recently opened an AustSuper account because i felt i didn't have enough money in super to justify opening a SMSF, even a cheapo DIY type SMSF provider like ESUPERFUND at $849 a year (with no insurance), was just to much to pay when i only have 51K in super...I felt that Aust Super with their ASX300 investment option was like having a half SMSF but with only about 30% of the DIY SMSF cost.

I'm very confident of my ability to ‘beat the market’ and the woeful returns achieved by the vast majority of investment managers working in the super industry as i have had some success following my low cost averaging strategy using my own money and simply plan to continue with that strategy inside my AustSuper account, the way AustSuper allows me to trade will mean i have a lower margin for error due to having to place orders for execution on a weekly basis and accept the average (Monday) price rather than my price. 

The AustSuper site says “ Instructions to buy or sell stocks in the ASX 200 Shares option that are received by AustralianSuper by 1pm Friday, or by Sunday midnight if submitted via MemberOnline, will be implemented on the first trading day of the following week.” Hopefully what that means is that my order will get executed the next day, however AustSuper do seen to be a little slow when it comes to getting things done....time will tell.

http://www.australiansuper.com/inve...ents_how-to-invest-in-the-ASX-200-option.aspx

I plan to use this thread to document my progress and hopefully inspire others with low super balances to consider their options and take charge of their super rather than just accept the crappy choices on offer from the bulk of the super industry...at the moment only AustralianSuper, CareSuper and Legalsuper offer members the ability to pick their own stocks from the top 200 listed company's, with AustSuper expanding the option to the ASX300 later this year.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/mon...rs-heats-up-20110419-1dlzr.html#ixzz1KPtlLFO0

I can invest up to 50% of my account balance in the AustSuper ASX 200/300 Australian Shares option, with funds to cover switches into the ASX 200 Shares option being debited from my account in accordance with the standard switching protocols, debited pro-rata across my investment choice allocation, also no single stock can make up more than 20% of my total account balance.

All the rules can be found in this link.

https://www.australiansuper.com/res...CE99EB4FAB52A367/MIC_Guide_Industry_Nov10.pdf

-----------------------------------------

Starting investment choice allocation (ASX300 investment option funds get drawn from here pro-rata)


High Growth 12%
Balanced 12%
Conservative Balanced 10%
Australian Shares 10%
Property 20%
Australian Fixed Interest 8%
Diversified Fixed Interest 28%

With the $25500 available i plan to buy 3 stocks investing approximately $7333  in each, leaving $3500 of available funds to add to the recycled funds made available after the first profit take...for the next 12 to 24 months i would expect to maintain an entry size of about $7330 with plans to raise the average entry size to 8K when funds permit, growing over time to 9K and so on.

What i have to work with and the Plan - May 2011


Total account balance $51000
Total available for ASX300 share option $25500
Position size per trade $7333
Buy low sell higher
Profit take target 9% +  
Trade exits will be partial with profits left in with an equal amount of capital + 20%
Building a dividend/distribution stream via recycling capital

Stock selection will be based on fundamentals and my own twisted take on contrarian and value investing with a little chart action to make things interesting...my objective is firstly to beat the total return of the other half of my account, however i would only genuinely be happy if i was able to double it, over the moon if i was able to triple it, i expect to be somewhere in between happy and over the moon. 

All trades with average price paid will be posted as soon as i have confirmation of the trade going thru which is about as live as AustSuper will allow....what i post in this thread will be real trades with real money, same as i have posted in the many stock threads i have contributed to except this time the dollar amounts will be public.

I expect employer, personal and any Govt co-contributions will total somewhere between 5 and 6K annually (currently considering a small salary sacrifice that would boost this by 2.5K annually) ~ fees and charges (less insurance) including those triggered by my activity in the ASX300 investment option should total around $250 to $330 per year...i plan on retiring in 7 to 10 years and will need this fund to be worth at-least 180K by then for my plans to come to fruition...minimum 13% PA growth needed to retire in 10 years.


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## Neutral

I just joined consolidated my existing accounts into Aust Super. I understand that a brokerage commission is paid every time you buy/sell shares.

I'm not sure on when trades get executed, only that they need to be in before Sunday night sometime. I would assume this means they only adjust portfolio once per week on a Monday in which a lot can happen in the space of a week!


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## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> Starting investment choice allocation (ASX300 investment option funds get drawn from here pro-rata)
> 
> 
> High Growth 12%
> Balanced 12%
> Conservative Balanced 10%
> Australian Shares 10%
> Property 20%
> Australian Fixed Interest 8%
> Diversified Fixed Interest 28%



Hi So_Cynical, sounds like a great idea, I'll be following it with interest. I don't understand the above. With the 50% that you have to let them manage where will you invest it? Are you saying you will put it in each of the above percentage wise as you listed? If so why not just put the 50% in the balanced fund as they cover all the above. Can you clear that one up, I am a bit thick?:


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## late_start

Just to let you know, the balance online does not get updated or shown until 1-2 weeks later after you traded.  Mostly after 2 weeks, they will send you a letter of confirmation dating back to the Monday you traded.


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## So_Cynical

Neutral said:


> I just joined consolidated my existing accounts into Aust Super. I understand that a brokerage commission is paid every time you buy/sell shares.










---------------------------------------------------



 So_Cynical ]
Starting investment choice allocation (ASX300 investment option funds get drawn from here pro-rata)

[list]
[*]High Growth 12%
[*]Balanced 12%
[*]Conservative Balanced 10%
[*]Australian Shares 10%
[*]Property 20%
[*]Australian Fixed Interest 8%
[*]Diversified Fixed Interest 28%
[/list]
[/QUOTE]



[QUOTE=Bill M said:


> I don't understand the above. With the 50% that you have to let them manage where will you invest it? Are you saying you will put it in each of the above percentage wise as you listed?




Yes...all moneys coming into the account have to go 100% into the "other' investment options.



Bill M said:


> If so why not just put the 50% in the balanced fund as they cover all the above. Can you clear that one up, I am a bit thick?:




Good point Bill...i would reckon that the total return from the other half of my account may well end up very similar to the Balanced option however i wanted it slightly skewed to property and interest.

I suppose i could of gone


Balanced 60%
Property 20%
Australian Fixed Interest 15%
Diversified Fixed Interest 15%

and got a very similar result.




late_start said:


> Just to let you know, the balance online does not get updated or shown until 1-2 weeks later after you traded.  Mostly after 2 weeks, they will send you a letter of confirmation dating back to the Monday you traded.




I'm starting to get the feeling that ill be  a fair bit dealing with AustSuper  my rollover from Colonial was executed by Colonial on the 14th of April and is yet to show up in my AustSuper account, and yet i paid $100 into my AustSuper account via Bpay online and it showed up 3 days later...go figure.


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## Julia

It sounds well worth trying, So Cynical.  Do you pay brokerage on each trade, as well presumably as the annual management fees?   If so, how much? 
Good luck with it.


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## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> Yes...all moneys coming into the account have to go 100% into the "other' investment options.



OK so you have decided your managed investment options but if all new money coming in goes into it then it will be skewed in favour of the 50% managed option won't it? How will you know if you are beating the managed option or not? Example, 25k in managed options and 25k in So Cynicals picked shares, then you decide to BPay 5k into the fund will that be split as well or does the managed 50% get it?





> I'm starting to get the feeling that ill be  a fair bit dealing with AustSuper  my rollover from Colonial was executed by Colonial on the 14th of April and is yet to show up in my AustSuper account, and yet i paid $100 into my AustSuper account via Bpay online and it showed up 3 days later...go figure.



When I joined this fund they stuffed up my rollover. It took nearly a Month to come through and then I had to ring them to sort out a few things. If your rollover isn't in within the next 2 weeks I would call them. Generally I found Australian Super pretty good once all set up, no longer with them now for other reasons.


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## Intrinsic Value

Bill M said:


> OK so you have decided your managed investment options but if all new money coming in goes into it then it will be skewed in favour of the 50% managed option won't it? How will you know if you are beating the managed option or not? Example, 25k in managed options and 25k in So Cynicals picked shares, then you decide to BPay 5k into the fund will that be split as well or does the managed 50% get it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I joined this fund they stuffed up my rollover. It took nearly a Month to come through and then I had to ring them to sort out a few things. If your rollover isn't in within the next 2 weeks I would call them. Generally I found Australian Super pretty good once all set up, no longer with them now for other reasons.





I was in Aust Super before I rolled my funds over to my self managed fund.

I had a lot of trouble getting the money out of them.

They reckoned they lost my application and then the second one was stalled as they said that i didn't provide the correct letter from the taxation department even thou they have access to the ATO website that states that my smsf is a complying fund.
Then finally they said they werent going to release the funds until they got the next payment from my employer who only do quarterly payments WTF...I was boiling by this stage and told them to send the cheque out which they eventually posted a month later.

All up it took over four months!

Anyway I don't think that the option to invest with the ASX which Aust Super has is that good as there are too many restrictions and most of the action in the last 12 months has been in the mid caps and small caps. Further they have things like income protection insurance that i was paying for years that I didn't even know about...I could go on but the whole industry is  a scam.


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## thesnowyforest

Would just like to fill you in on my current approach with super. 

i work for Asgard. Asgard if you dont know is a super and investment platform. Its apart of BT Financial Group.

So i've almost rolled all my super in $26k. Im 29. 

As staff we pay no admin fees for life. even after leaving the business. sweet!

Ok, so if you open an Asgard Superannuation Account, with a Managed Profile setting you have the option of investing in ASX300 shares, listed funds like ARG, and also you can choose from over 300 managed funds.

So, lots to choose from.

You DO NOT need an adviser linked to the account. You can send EXECUTE ONLY share trade requests to the St George Financial planning call centre those guys will put through the trade for $20. 

So my first aim is to get my super up to $50k i the short term .. say 6 - 12 months. and $100k within the next 24 - 36 months.

IMO we are entering a volatile time of the year which will produce some excellent buying opportunities. This is when i plan to place my first share purchases within super.

I recently did my first managed fund buy and sell and locked in $800 profit within a month.. haha and that was off the default advance fund. 

Capital gains are taxed at 16.5 tax within super regardless of the time that share/managed fund is held. IMO a great trading environment.

So i plan on getting to 100k. putting perhaps 70% in the like of ARG for div reinvestment etc and using 30% for growing companies like AUT for example. And probably stocks with good leverage to gold/silver and whatever else looks good at the time.

This is by no means advice, just sharing my story in the hope of possibly helping people.

I've also submitted request to our product team to add ETF's like VAS etc so then riding the asx 200 will be that much easier to trade.


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## So_Cynical

thesnowyforest said:


> Ok, so if you open an Asgard Superannuation Account, with a Managed Profile setting you have the option of investing in ASX300 shares, listed funds like ARG, and also you can choose from over 300 managed funds.
> 
> 
> 
> I've also submitted request to our product team to add ETF's like VAS etc so then riding the asx 200 will be that much easier to trade.




You mite want to tell them to redesign their site too cos i cant see anything about personal super...i see business super but no personal super, retail super...am i missing something?


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## skc

So_Cynical said:


> I'm very confident of my ability to ‘beat the market’ and the woeful returns achieved by the vast majority of investment managers working in the super industry as i have had some success following my low cost averaging strategy using my own money and simply plan to continue with that strategy inside my AustSuper account, the way AustSuper allows me to trade will mean i have a lower margin for error due to having to place orders for execution on a weekly basis and accept the average (Monday) price rather than my price.




Are you kidding? That's about as unworkable as they come.

If you are targeting 9% change in price, a few ticks here and there will eat quite a chunk of that away. Your advantage in super is only the difference between your marginal tax rate and the super tax rate of 15%...

Say your marginal tax rate is 39% (or may be 30%) you made 9% on your $7K position = $630 profit, the difference in tax implication is only $151 ($95 if 30% marginal tax rate). That is 2% (1.3%) on your position size. The disadvantage in execution is too great for such a small potential gain... plus I bet you their broker commission is not as competitive as someone outside like Bell (or IB).

I think for long term buy-and-hold type transactions this arrangement is probably OK. For short term targeting small moves it feels like the wrong tool.


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## robz7777

So_Cynical said:


> You mite want to tell them to redesign their site too cos i cant see anything about personal super...i see business super but no personal super, retail super...am i missing something?




http://asgard.com.au/Products_&_Services/

If you go to eWRAP - this is the one you are after.. 

Also note you can only have up to 30% of your whole portfolio in one stock..


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## So_Cynical

skc said:


> Are you kidding? That's about as unworkable as they come.




Time will tell of course...its certainly not an ideal set of rules that AustSuper have given me but that's the best option there is inside a retail/non SMSF.



skc said:


> If you are targeting 9% change in price, a few ticks here and there will eat quite a chunk of that away. Your advantage in super is only the difference between your marginal tax rate and the super tax rate of 15%...
> 
> Say your marginal tax rate is 39% (or may be 30%) you made 9% on your $7K position = $630 profit, the difference in tax implication is only $151 ($95 if 30% marginal tax rate). That is 2% (1.3%) on your position size. The disadvantage in execution is too great for such a small potential gain... plus I bet you their broker commission is not as competitive as someone outside like Bell (or IB).




You mite of missed the little + after the 9%, i know that at some point in time ill get frustrated and will simply take a 9% profit just to move on, however i will always be wanting a % profit much higher than that...i understand the numbers as ive traded this system for over 3 years now and i am acutely aware that if i average only 9% per exit and each trade takes 10 or 14 months to complete im going to get nowhere in a hurry.

As for tax...its whatever it is...my alternative is to not trade in my super and accept a low risk 8 or 9% PA or have a go and try and better it...ive chosen to have a go and document it in this thread.



skc said:


> I think for long term buy-and-hold type transactions this arrangement is probably OK. For short term targeting small moves it feels like the wrong tool.




Its the only tool i have in a retail or non SMSF...as i said its working for me with my money outside super so will work inside super too...just not as quick and easy and with the level of control that i would like.


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## skc

So_Cynical said:


> Time will tell of course...its certainly not an ideal set of rules that AustSuper have given me but that's the best option there is inside a retail/non SMSF.




Forget what I said.. I was comparing your trading inside vs outside super.

But you are comparing the return of your own trading vs lazy funds option in super.

So fair enough.


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## So_Cynical

Superfund Trade #1 was entered this week, GFF @ 1.03  smiley because that's the price i wanted, unfortunately due to 1 of my roll-overs going missing (the super industry still uses checks ) and AustSuper mistakenly charging me 14% tax on the roll-over that actually made it into the fund  (since reversed) i could only buy a limited amount of the shares i wanted and will top up the GFF holding (if its still cheap) when funds permit, hopefully the week after next all will be sorted..

Best to leave individual stock discussion in the relevant stock thread

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13089&p=632951&viewfull=1#post632951
~


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## poverty

When you buy shares within super can you join dividend reinvestment plan to build your holding, participate in any SPP's etc?


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## So_Cynical

poverty said:


> When you buy shares within super can you join dividend reinvestment plan to build your holding, participate in any SPP's etc?




No...under the current rule set AustSuper uses, DRP's and SPP's etc etc cannot be participated in...with a SMSF im reasonably sure you can participate.

----------------------

As of Friday my other roll over has finally showed up so i will be placing 2 new buy orders tonight, SGP and BBG or PTM or APN still undecided which.


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## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> Superfund Trade #1 was entered this week, GFF @ 1.03  smiley because that's the price i wanted




Got my paper statement during the week and it turns out i paid 1.06 per share, from memory the opening price and that days high...so safe to assume my order was filled at the open and at market and that really pisses me off even though i was expecting it....i personally never buy at market, i set my price and wait and that's not how AustSuper instructs Macquarie to execute their orders.

Seriously how hard would it be for AustSuper to instruct Macquarie to simply allow a buy or sell order to just sit there for a week or 2...i cant figure how and or why they don't allow this?

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So_Cynical said:


> As of Friday my other roll over has finally showed up so i will be placing 2 new buy orders tonight, SGP and BBG or PTM or APN still undecided which.




I ended up buying SGP and ABC ~ mostly cos ive really got the hots for ABC : anyway
on Monday SGP traded between $3.45 and $3.51 so i should be slightly in front on that entry and ABC traded between $3.04 and $3.08 so should also be slightly in front on that one too. 

Probably buy a few more GFF on Monday to take the position up to near the 7.3K mark....then its just a waiting game to see how long it takes one of the stocks to get to the 9% profit point.
~


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## So_Cynical

Almost 4 months since my last post in this thread so time for an update....as we all know the market has tanked in the last 4 months and so ive taken the limited opportunity's i have to average down into my stocks that have fallen the most (at the time)

My super portfolio consists of only 3 shares so its simply been a matter of buying into the stock that's fallen the most, when ive had the funds to do so....2 buys.


ABC 2.73 on the 18/07
SGP 2.70 on the 15/08

Smallish averages down but still worth doing in the overall scheme of things...its clear now that its going to take a little while to exit these positions and establish free carry but ...it is what it is, and i shall soldier on, collecting dividends along the way.

SGP - Stockland Activity chart below.
~


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## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> My super portfolio consists of only 3 shares so its simply been a matter of buying into the stock that's fallen the most, when ive had the funds to do so....2 buys.




Just did a quick check on your 3 stocks. It appears as though GFF has in fact dropped the most in 12 Months and the dividends have been chopped by half, did you top up or exit on this one? What is your plan with it? 

By the way, how is the new trading platform on OZ Super? I really like the way they are going forward with that as I don't really want to start my own SMSF. Seems like a great way to do it yourself with no accounting hassles. Is it up and running and have they fixed their service up yet? Cheers.


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## Julia

Hi Bill

What bothers you about starting your own SMSF?


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## Bill M

Hi Julia, mostly the compliance, accounting, auditing and the expense. I did read the esuperfund thread (all of it) and in the end thought it was a bit all too much. Also I hated the thought of using their brokers and there recommended 2 bank accounts and term deposits.(which were lousy in yield) That would mean I would have to do my own set up. I am ok with the investing part but not with the ever changing laws. It's not out of the question it's just that I don't think it's worth it sometimes.

Australian Super might just fill that gap where I don't need to know all that legislation and stuff but I can still pick my own stocks and term deposits, could just work.

I have one super fund in cash and bonds only. For a 100k balance the fee is $552 p/a all in, statements and all. I have to weigh up the pros and cons between the 3 ways I could handle my super. I am still a bit undecided on this.


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## Julia

Thanks for the explanation Bill.  I quite get what you're saying, but I'd suggest that in reality the compliance factor has been inflated to be way more scary than it actually is.  If you have a simple, sole purpose SMSF and don't attempt any fancy variations of the basic tenet of the reason for the Fund's existence being to provide retirement benefit for the members, you wouldn't have any difficulty.

The ATO has a SMSF section to which you can subscribe and receive emails which clearly outline any changes in the rules.

I wonder if you're allowing your look at Esuperfund and the restrictions it imposes to colour your view about the whole SMSF idea.  All a SMSF represents, is the opportunity to hold assets in a tax advantaged environment.

There are individual accounting firms who will do the setup and then the annual tax return and audit for a very reasonable fee, and you would have complete autonomy to invest as you wish.  None of the nonsense So Cynical has been describing such as waiting weeks for confirmation of a trade.  (apologies, SC, if I've misunderstood what you're saying  here, but it's obviously a less than satisfactory situation.)

I don't mean to be trying to persuade you toward a SMSF, Bill, but am just trying to suggest you may be somewhat exaggerating the difficulties of running your own fund.  I've been doing it for many years now and, as long as clear records are kept, it's no more onerous than investing in a less tax-advantaged environment.


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## So_Cynical

Bill M said:


> Just did a quick check on your 3 stocks. It appears as though GFF has in fact dropped the most in 12 Months and the dividends have been chopped by half, did you top up or exit on this one? What is your plan with it?




I didn't average again into GFF because i already had 2 parcels and only had enough funds for the 2 averaged downs ive taken into ABC and SGP....GFF will be my next buy as soon as enough funds are available.

At the moment i have 2 parcels of each stock and will limit myself to 3.




Bill M said:


> By the way, how is the new trading platform on OZ Super? I really like the way they are going forward with that as I don't really want to start my own SMSF. Seems like a great way to do it yourself with no accounting hassles. Is it up and running and have they fixed their service up yet? Cheers.




OZ Super still haven't switched over to their new trading platform but they do have a new - better web site...documenting execution and updating account activity is still woefully slow, so can only get better.


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## Bill M

Julia said:


> I don't mean to be trying to persuade you toward a SMSF, Bill, but am just trying to suggest you may be somewhat exaggerating the difficulties of running your own fund.  I've been doing it for many years now and, as long as clear records are kept, it's no more onerous than investing in a less tax-advantaged environment.




I do have a couple more important questions. I believe 2 persons must be listed as the funds trustees. In my case it would have to be myself and my wife and it can't be anyone else. She is absolutely clueless when it comes to any financial matters and she relies totally on me. Does she as a trustee actually have to do anything other than sign where I ask her too? What if something was to happen to me, how could she run the fund and what could she do about that? This part worries me a bit.


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## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> OZ Super still haven't switched over to their new trading platform but they do have a new - better web site...documenting execution and updating account activity is still woefully slow, so can only get better.




Let us know when it is all working properly and if you are happy with it. By the way (not a recommendation) have you taken a close look at the high dividend yield ETF code "SYI". Might be an easier way to add to your holdings and seeing you are investing long term it might be worth a look, cheers.


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## jorgon

Bill M said:


> I do have a couple more important questions. I believe 2 persons must be listed as the funds trustees. In my case it would have to be myself and my wife and it can't be anyone else. She is absolutely clueless when it comes to any financial matters and she relies totally on me. Does she as a trustee actually have to do anything other than sign where I ask her too? What if something was to happen to me, how could she run the fund and what could she do about that? This part worries me a bit.



Hi Bill M

Whether or not you need two persons to be trustees, depends on whether you have human trustees or a corporate trustee.  

If you have human trustees, then it is true there must be at least two trustees.  In that case if you are the only member of the fund, the other trustee can be anybody you like and does not have to be a member of the fund (but must not be your employer unless you are related to that person).  If your wife is a member of the fund, then it should be your wife.

If you have a corporate trustee and you are the only member of the fund, then you can run it on your own (you could be the sole director).  Alternatively if you prefer you could have a second director who does not have to be a member of the fund (but this must not be your employer unless you are related to that person).  If your wife is a member of the fund, then she should be the second director.

If your wife is a trustee of the fund or a director of the corporate trustee, she *would* have legal duties to ensure that the fund continued to comply with the superannuation laws, and she would have to act honestly and diligently.  These duties cannot be delegated.  If you think these duties would be too much for her, your option would be not to have her as a member of the fund. 

As for management of the fund if anything happened to you, the easiest way to deal with this in advance of this event is to grant an Enduring Power of Attorney to someone you trust.  This would appoint someone to act as trustee in your place if you became unable to continue this role.  This could not be on a paid basis but the attorney (to whom you grant the power) would be able to put the day to day control of the fund into the hands of a professional if you had not already done this.

And if you are the sole member of the fund and you have a second trustee or director as mentioned above, the attorney would act with that that person after you are unable to do so.  Hence you would have two trustees looking after your fund during your period of incapacity.

There are also a number of available alternatives to ensure that the fund is dealt with in the way you wish in the event of your death.

I have written a series of articles on my web site (below) which attempt to clarify some of these matters.


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## Julia

Bill M said:


> I do have a couple more important questions. I believe 2 persons must be listed as the funds trustees. In my case it would have to be myself and my wife and it can't be anyone else. She is absolutely clueless when it comes to any financial matters and she relies totally on me. Does she as a trustee actually have to do anything other than sign where I ask her too? What if something was to happen to me, how could she run the fund and what could she do about that? This part worries me a bit.



 Jorgon has essentially answered your question, Bill.
I started my fund with the two individual trustees.  The second person played no active part in any of the investment decisions and effectively read through the Investment Strategy before signing off on the tax return.  I had a Power of Attorney from her to sign day to day stuff but the POA is not acceptable for the annual tax return.

For reasons I won't go into here, I lost confidence in that second trustee and therefore have recently completed the switch to corporate trustee where I'm the sole director.  I'd strongly advise anyone setting up a new SMSF to go for the corporate trustee structure.

I completely understand your concern about what would happen if you lose capacity, temporarily or permanently.  As Jorgon has suggested, I have an Enduring POA which resides with three people, acting together.   They have various strengths and this EPOA includes responsibility for not just financial matters but healthcare etc.
Only one of the three has any financial know how, so the EPOA instructs that they must make their decisions in conjunction with advice from my accountant.

This is not a perfect solution but it's about the best I can do.  

Do you have a financially savvy friend who is absolutely trustworthy who would be prepared to take on the role of attorney in the unlikely event you were to lose capacity?


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## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> I didn't average again into GFF because i already had 2 parcels and only had enough funds for the 2 averaged downs ive taken into ABC and SGP....GFF will be my next buy as soon as enough funds are available.
> 
> .




I think your luck is in, check this out.
---
GOODMAN Fielder plans to raise $259 million through an equity raising at 45 cents a share, roughly 24 per cent below its last traded price.

Full Story Here
---

If I were you I would definitely take this on even if you flogged them shortly after allocation. 

It will be interesting to see how AustSuper handles the paperwork for this, let us know how it goes. Good Luck.


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## skc

Bill M said:


> I think your luck is in, check this out.
> ---
> GOODMAN Fielder plans to raise $259 million through an equity raising at 45 cents a share, roughly 24 per cent below its last traded price.
> 
> Full Story Here
> ---
> 
> If I were you I would definitely take this on even if you flogged them shortly after allocation.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how OZ super handles the paperwork for this, let us know how it goes. Good Luck.




It is NOT a good thing when company need to offer such large discount to issue shares.

Loss making companies issuing shares at deep discount rarely produce long term positive outcomes. GFF isn't going through a liquidity issue... it is going through structural issues.

And the offer is renounceable which means there probably won't be any over-subscription available. At least one could sell the rights straight away.


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## Bill M

skc said:


> It is NOT a good thing when company need to offer such large discount to issue shares.
> 
> Loss making companies issuing shares at deep discount rarely produce long term positive outcomes. GFF isn't going through a liquidity issue... it is going through structural issues.
> 
> And the offer is renounceable which means there probably won't be any over-subscription available. At least one could sell the rights straight away.



Yes totally agree however he can make a simple quick buck out of this by selling soon after, I've done it many times myself.


----------



## skc

Bill M said:


> Yes totally agree however he can make a simple quick buck out of this by selling soon after, I've done it many times myself.




I am willing to bet you two loafs of bread that GFF will trade below the rights price by the time new shares are issued.

Whatever profit So_C can get from selling the rights will be negated by the loss in his core holding (imho).

Worst of all, GFF missed out on today's run!


----------



## So_Cynical

Bill M said:


> I think your luck is in, check this out.
> ---
> GOODMAN Fielder plans to raise $259 million through an equity raising at 45 cents a share, roughly 24 per cent below its last traded price.
> 
> Full Story Here
> ---
> 
> If I were you I would definitely take this on even if you flogged them shortly after allocation.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how AustSuper handles the paperwork for this, let us know how it goes. Good Luck.






skc said:


> I am willing to bet you two loafs of bread that GFF will trade below the rights price by the time new shares are issued.
> 
> Whatever profit So_C can get from selling the rights will be negated by the loss in his core holding (imho).
> 
> Worst of all, GFF missed out on today's run!




 I'm not 100% sure but i don't think im allowed to participate in rights issues etc so i think im screwed...i have to say that i didn't give rights issues and other corporate actions that i cant participate in the attention i should have.

---------------

I'm with SKC on the down side...in this market GFF could hit 25 or 30 CPS as the market will consider this capital raising to be the equivalent of hitting the panic button.

I mean what company board/management in its right mind would dare do a cap raising now...its crazy!..and to make matters worse i did an average down last Monday at 62 or 63 CPS. 

I got this wrong, terribly wrong....my worst stock selection since APN.  2 doozys there.


----------



## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> :
> I got this wrong, terribly wrong....my worst stock selection since APN.  2 doozys there.




Don't beat yourself up too much over it, we have all had duds, we have to move on. The real question is what are you going to do with GFF now?


----------



## skc

So_Cynical said:


> I'm not 100% sure but i don't think im allowed to participate in rights issues etc so i think im screwed...i have to say that i didn't give rights issues and other corporate actions that i cant participate in the attention i should have.




I actually thought about this the other day before the GFF halt. It's a renounceable issue so you 'should' see GFFR as a tradable instrument but your account seems to have some unusual limitations.

There are talks that GFF should be broken up and that might give some short term boost to the share price... who knows.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...-up-on-the-cards/story-fn7rgef9-1226148490943

I will buy a loaf of their bread tonight just to help you out.


----------



## So_Cynical

Bill M said:


> I think your luck is in, check this out.
> ---
> GOODMAN Fielder plans to raise $259 million through an equity raising at 45 cents a share, roughly 24 per cent below its last traded price.
> 
> Full Story Here
> ---
> 
> If I were you I would definitely take this on even if you flogged them shortly after allocation.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how AustSuper handles the paperwork for this, let us know how it goes. Good Luck.




Good news...of sorts.

Turns out i do get to participate in the GFF Rights issue, i got a letter today from AustSuper's share registry & corporate actions team dated 30 Sept, so only a couple of days after the announcement....good to see the share registry & corporate actions team are on the ball. 

I just have to fill in a basic form stating how many shares i want and as long as im withing the ASX200 option rules i can participate...so looks like ill be taking my third and absolutely last average down into GFF, as i plan to participate fully in the rights issue.


----------



## So_Cynical

AustSuper will launch its new Member Direct investment option on the 28th of November, i put together a little montage of some of the features etc and there's links to the PDF and site below.

AustSuper are wisely marketing this as a low cost, no paperwork, no hassle alternative to SMSF's and at $15 a month, with low brokerage and real time trading and term deposits...i reckon this will be very popular.

The PDF below has screen shots and a good guide to how the trading platform will work...looks quite good. 

http://www.australiansuper.com/memberdirect

http://www.australiansuper.com/memberdirectguide

http://www.australiansuper.com/~/media/files/Guides/MemberDirect_Oct11_WEB_final.ashx
~


----------



## Boggo

So_Cynical said:


> AustSuper are wisely marketing this as a low cost, no paperwork, no hassle alternative to SMSF's and at $15 a month, with low brokerage and real time trading and term deposits...i reckon this will be very popular.




Correct me if I am wrong, it would cost $44 to buy $20000.00 of stock, your stop loss would not work on the day you buy and you can only trade the top 300 of the approx 1960 stocks on the ASX.

I wouldn't think that it is either cheap or potentially popular unless I am missing something.


----------



## So_Cynical

Boggo said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, it would cost $44 to buy $20000.00 of stock, your stop loss would not work on the day you buy and you can only trade the top 300 of the approx 1960 stocks on the ASX.
> 
> I wouldn't think that it is either cheap or potentially popular unless I am missing something.




A $20000 trade thru commsec would cost $29.95 so $44 in comparison isn't outrageous...how many people are actually using stop loss orders to trade inside their SMSF's i would think that its not very common :dunno: certainly not the norm for Esuper and other cheap DIY type account holders i would think.

For people wanting to aggressively trade via a SMSF, AustSuper is not really going to suit, however it will suit people wanting a greater level of control and flexibility with a limited budget...personally i would prefer at least the 500 stocks of the all Ords to be available and in time they probably will move down that road.

$180 per year in fees and $220 in brokerage for 100K worth of buys/sells is not alot to pay when compared to the 2 or 3K some people annually pay for their SMSF's


----------



## Bill M

skc said:


> I am willing to bet you two loafs of bread that GFF will trade below the rights price by the time new shares are issued.




Just did a check on these, it briefly went down to 42c then closed on that same day at 46.5c. This Friday however, they closed at 54c, not a bad gain for such a short period.


----------



## Bill M

So_Cynical said:


> Good news...of sorts.
> 
> Turns out i do get to participate in the GFF Rights issue, i got a letter today from AustSuper's share registry & corporate actions team dated 30 Sept, so only a couple of days after the announcement....good to see the share registry & corporate actions team are on the ball.
> 
> I just have to fill in a basic form stating how many shares i want and as long as im withing the ASX200 option rules i can participate...so looks like ill be taking my third and absolutely last average down into GFF, as *i plan to participate fully in the rights issue*.




Well done, nice tidy profit on the issue so far. Took a look at AustSuper's website. It definitely is a big improvement, although their term deposits aren't really much chop. Limited to NAB and ME Bank only. NAB's best rate was 5.5% for 90 days ME Bank was 5.9% for 6 Months. Why they don't let you take longer terms than 12 Months is a mystery. The ETF and Share purchases sound great but with limitations as well. I invest in high yielding hybrids and they won't make the top 300 ASX listed stocks. It's a bit restrictive but it's better than nothing and there are no hassles like running a SMSF. Good Luck with it all.


----------



## lindsayf

So_Cynical said:


> So_Cynical’s - AustSuper ASX300 ‘low cost averaging’ trading adventure.
> 
> I have recently opened an AustSuper account because i felt i didn't have enough money in super to justify opening a SMSF, even a cheapo DIY type SMSF provider like ESUPERFUND at $849 a year (with no insurance), was just to much to pay when i only have 51K in super...I felt that Aust Super with their ASX300 investment option was like having a half SMSF but with only about 30% of the DIY SMSF cost......




I'll be interested in your experience with the new investment options at AustralianSuper. I also joined a year or so back because of the extra investment flexibility over my other super provider ( HealthSuper).  I also dont have an amount that warrants a SMSF so am looking fwd to seeing the new platform and making the most of what I have.

On a side note - I was surprised that I was not able to roll all of my HealthSuper balance to AustSuper because the hospital where I work will only make contributions to HealthSuper.  And there I was thinking employees had choice these days.  But I was able to roll out most of it and keep the HS account going.


----------



## So_Cynical

lindsayf said:


> I'll be interested in your experience with the new investment options at AustralianSuper. I also joined a year or so back because of the extra investment flexibility over my other super provider ( HealthSuper).




Hey lindsay

So far so good with the new platform...i brought some IMF shares today (5000 @ $1.35) and the process was pretty much exactly as you would experience with an online broker.

The order screen is simple (as an order screen should be) my Limit trade was executed today at my price, and my settlement account debited...the only things missing were a confirmation email and an appropriate order progress type screen.

IMF with a market cap of only 167 million is a good example of the extra freedom to choose investments that the ASX300 offers...with my ABC & SGP positions now in profit (small) hopefully it wont be to long until i can report how my first AustSuper selling experience goes.  

Shame GFF spoilt the party. 
~


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> IMF with a market cap of only 167 million is a good example of the extra freedom to choose investments that the ASX300 offers...with my ABC & SGP positions now in profit (small) hopefully it wont be to long until i can report how my first AustSuper selling experience goes.
> 
> Shame GFF spoilt the party.
> ~



If those figures are as of today, won't it take only the expected retrace, when the world wakes up to the fact that the announcement yesterday is yet another very temporary band aid, to kill your tiny profit?


----------



## So_Cynical

Julia said:


> If those figures are as of today, won't it take only the expected retrace, when the world wakes up to the fact that the announcement yesterday is yet another very temporary band aid, to kill your tiny profit?




The figures are as of 4 hours ago.

Of course my tiny profit and capital is at risk, im comfortable with that...the rally may continue and get me out of my ABC, SGP and or IMF trades with 10 or 15% profit, hell even a break even get out of GFF is possible.  or we mite go back to where we were 1, 2, 3 and 4 months ago. :dunno:

What the market does at any One, Twenty, Fifty or Five hundred points in time is of little interest to me...i watch individual stocks that do interest me and seek to enter them at the most advantageous times, then hold until its advantageous for me to sell part or all of that particular holding....its a simple plan.


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> I expect employer, personal and any Govt co-contributions will total somewhere between 5 and 6K annually (*currently considering a small salary sacrifice that would boost this by 2.5K annually*) ~ fees and charges (less insurance) including those triggered by my activity in the ASX300 investment option should total around $250 to $330 per year...*i plan on retiring in 7 to 10 years and will need this fund to be worth at-least 180K* by then for my plans to come to fruition...minimum 13% PA growth needed *to retire in 10 years.*




I ended up deciding on a salary sacrifice of 4K annually...now 8 months down the track and with AustSuper's new platform up and running its become clear that i need to increase my sacrifice (%) significantly  to reduce my personal tax liability's and increase my super balance, also becoming clearer is the fact that 180K wont be enough to fund the required annuity ill need...so the new 10yr target is 250K of which at least 110K will be SS.

Last FY and this FY i have/will receive tax bills due to the success of my personal portfolio, all things being equal this trend should continue so i feel the smart thing to do would be to up my sacrifice...so from the new year ill be doubling my SS to just under 8K resulting in a significant lowering of my annual tax bill and allowing me to be more aggressive with my super trading.


----------



## namrog

Interesting thread So cyn, and thanks for sharing a live account.

If you believe those who are supposed to know, then there is a massive dose of inflation on the way, that's if Angels Merkel gives way and we get all this Euro bailout money flooding the market, then there can only be one result.

Have you considered a hedging strategy to defend your portfolio against the ravages of hyperinflation....?


----------



## So_Cynical

namrog said:


> Interesting thread So cyn, and thanks for sharing a live account.
> 
> Have you considered a hedging strategy to defend your portfolio against the ravages of hyperinflation....?




The gold stocks are over priced at the moment...perhaps an ASX mining ETF? also hyper inflation will help the real estate stocks id imagine as asset prices will run up with inflation. :dunno:

I've been of the opinion for 4 years that the US and EU needs to inflate away the debt...but it just hasn't happened. :dunno:


----------



## Julia

SC, are you saying you believe you can fund your retirement with a base of $250,000?
Will you have any other income from anything?


----------



## So_Cynical

Julia said:


> SC, are you saying you believe you can fund your retirement with a base of $250,000?
> Will you have any other income from anything?




$250K will be rolled into a 20yr annuity that should give me maybe $1600 AUD per month that will be used as pocket money and basic living expenses etc...hopefully ill have 500 to 600K worth of stocks at that time paying me roughly 6% in dividend yield, so another 30 to 35K annually..then add to that trading profits of 10 to 30K annually.

Living in a low cost country...the above should be enough.


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> $250K will be rolled into a 20yr annuity that should give me maybe $1600 AUD per month that will be used as pocket money



That's assuming your annuity will pay you just under 8%.  I'd love to know where you're going to access such an annuity?

Please let me know.  I'll be right into it.


----------



## So_Cynical

Julia said:


> That's assuming your annuity will pay you just under 8%.  I'd love to know where you're going to access such an annuity?
> 
> Please let me know.  I'll be right into it.




5% ... or is there something im not getting? i must admit that i haven't gone into the nitty gritty just yet and am dealing in ball park figures....as far as i know an annuity works on both principle and interest...in ratios pretty much the same as a principle and interest loan.

http://www.annuity.net.au/calculator
~


----------



## Ves

Assuming the top end of your income spectrum in 20 years time, you'll have 85k per annum (assuming that you obtain the annuity, gain 30k trading income per year etc).

Inflation adjusted this is just under 50k if we assume inflation of 3% over the twenty years. Seems possible to retire on this, but the question remains whether you can consistently achieve trading income and / or obtain the annuity. 

I commend you on having goals and knowing what you want. You are certainly not being unrealistic. This is really important. Well done.


----------



## nulla nulla

So_Cynical said:


> $250K will be rolled into a 20yr annuity that should give me maybe $1600 AUD per month that will be used as pocket money and basic living expenses etc...hopefully ill have 500 to 600K worth of stocks at that time paying me roughly 6% in dividend yield, so another 30 to 35K annually..then add to that trading profits of 10 to 30K annually.
> 
> Living in a low cost country...the above should be enough.




$10k to $30k trading profit on a portfolio value of $500k to $600k sounds a bit conservative, (5% would represent $25k-$30k, 10% = $50k-$60k etc). Particularly given your demonstrated practise of combining dividend stripping with capital gains and your target of outperforming the market. 

Then again there is nothing wrong with erring on the side of being conservative in your projections. Good luck.


----------



## lindsayf

So_Cynical said:


> Hey lindsay
> 
> So far so good with the new platform...i brought some IMF shares today (5000 @ $1.35) and the process was pretty much exactly as you would experience with an online broker.
> 
> The order screen is simple (as an order screen should be) my Limit trade was executed today at my price, and my settlement account debited...the only things missing were a confirmation email and an appropriate order progress type screen.
> 
> IMF with a market cap of only 167 million is a good example of the extra freedom to choose investments that the ASX300 offers...with my ABC & SGP positions now in profit (small) hopefully it wont be to long until i can report how my first AustSuper selling experience goes.
> 
> Shame GFF spoilt the party.
> ~




Good stuff SC.

I have just registered and having a look at the platform.  I can see no provision for stop losses or for buy stop orders - entry appears to be by limit or market orders only.  Is this your understanding?

thx


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> 5% ... or is there something im not getting? i must admit that i haven't gone into the nitty gritty just yet and am dealing in ball park figures....as far as i know an annuity works on both principle and interest...in ratios pretty much the same as a principle and interest loan.
> 
> http://www.annuity.net.au/calculator
> ~



SC, I was thinking of just the % return on your principal, not the return of your capital in the calculation as happens in a term annuity.

I don't know much about them either, but wonder why you'd sink so much into such a product when you could alternatively just continue investing using that $250K as part of your capital base, almost certainly derive better than 5% as a result, and still have your capital at the end of 20 years?

If you were at age pension age, and had your assets in an allocated pension you wouldn't be paying tax.

I know at one stage complying annuities meant the value of same were not taken into account when being assessed for a government pension but I thought that had changed.  Not sure.

I'd be interested to know what attracts you to the term annuity?  Maybe the 'set and forget' aspect?


----------



## village idiot

I'm lost, where do the 500k-600k of stocks on top of the 250k  come from ?


----------



## Wysiwyg

So_Cynical said:


> hopefully ill have 500 to 600K worth of stocks at that time paying me roughly 6% in dividend yield, so another 30 to 35K annually..then add to that trading profits of 10 to 30K annually.



I am surprised you would risk the share market for a hopeful 6% dividend as opposed to guaranteed bank interest of 6% for term deposits.


----------



## nulla nulla

village idiot said:


> I'm lost, where do the 500k-600k of stocks on top of the 250k  come from ?




Hard work, saving and investing in the share market outside of his super fund.


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> $250K will be rolled into a 20yr annuity that should give me maybe $1600 AUD per month that will be used as pocket money and basic living expenses etc...hopefully ill have 500 to 600K worth of stocks at that time paying me roughly 6% in dividend yield, so another 30 to 35K annually..then add to that trading profits of 10 to 30K annually.
> 
> Living in a low cost country...the above should be enough.






village idiot said:


> I'm lost, where do the 500k-600k of stocks on top of the 250k  come from ?



 I'm also a bit confused here.

SC, if you have approaching $500K-$600K of stocks outside of Super, isn't any gain here going to attract tax at your marginal rate?

Given that your main focus seems to be on providing for your retirement (and good on you for this), I'm a bit puzzled about why you wouldn't have the lot in Super, with tax at just 15% in the accumulation phase.

If you have $250,000 plus around $600,000, it would be extremely tax effective to put it all into a SMSF, the running of which would also be cost effective at around $850K.

Even if the $500K - $600K and/or the $250K is aspirational at this stage, I'm finding it hard to understand why you wouldn't have any assets inside Super.


----------



## So_Cynical

lindsayf said:


> I have just registered and having a look at the platform.  I can see no provision for stop losses or for buy stop orders - entry appears to be by limit or market orders only.  Is this your understanding?
> 
> thx



Yep...they don't have stop loss orders etc, so you will have to manage your positions/trades manually, which for me is no big deal thou it may not suit some....AustSuper say they don't want account holders to "trade" or try and "time the market".  

I suppose at some point in time they may introduce conditional orders same as they may include Hybrids and LIC's and perhaps the All Ords constituents....i would reckon its just a matter of time.

------------



village idiot said:


> I'm lost, where do the 500k-600k of stocks on top of the 250k  come from ?




My personal portfolio currently at 24 stocks, a mix of open positions and part free carry positions, some with multiple entry's to build the free carry component and yield...current PA growth of around 12%

-------------



Julia said:


> If you were at age pension age, and had your assets in an allocated pension you wouldn't be paying tax.
> 
> I know at one stage complying annuities meant the value of same were not taken into account when being assessed for a government pension but I thought that had changed.  Not sure.
> 
> I'd be interested to know what attracts you to the term annuity?  Maybe the 'set and forget' aspect?




One of the conditions of getting a MM2H visa is having a source of off shore (non Malaysian) monthly income of 10,000.00 Malaysian Ringgits = (3,108.00 Australian Dollars) in the form of annuity's or pensions..some sort of provable fixed type income.

I was planning on using my super money to at least part fill this requirement...an  allocated pension or annuity's would do the trick.


----------



## So_Cynical

Wysiwyg said:


> I am surprised you would risk the share market for a hopeful 6% dividend as opposed to guaranteed bank interest of 6% for term deposits.




Because i want to retire in 7 to 10 years and 6% interest wont cut it...i need at least double that, and we are talking about expected returns in 7 to 10 years time based on current returns..at the moment my portfolio has grown by 11% PA (Dec 10 > Dec 11) and that's with the market doing badly...overall im averaging better than that.

-----------------------



Julia said:


> I'm also a bit confused here.
> 
> SC, if you have approaching $500K-$600K of stocks outside of Super, isn't any gain here going to attract tax at your marginal rate?
> 
> Given that your main focus seems to be on providing for your retirement (and good on you for this), I'm a bit puzzled about why you wouldn't have the lot in Super, with tax at just 15% in the accumulation phase.
> 
> If you have $250,000 plus around $600,000, it would be extremely tax effective to put it all into a SMSF, the running of which would also be cost effective at around $850K.
> 
> Even if the $500K - $600K and/or the $250K is aspirational at this stage, *I'm finding it hard to understand why you wouldn't have any assets inside Super.*




Agree...and that's why ive decided to double my salary sacrifice and in all probability will add to it every year until im maxed out at 25K....im hesitant to sell stocks and throw a lump sum in because i will lose so much investment flexibility.

Within 2 or 3 years i can see that ill have to put all of my disposable income into super...but would only feel comfortable doing that if my personal portfolio was in tact, i spent to much of my life poor and struggling to just give up control of that money.


----------



## village idiot

> Originally Posted by village idiot
> I'm lost, where do the 500k-600k of stocks on top of the 250k come from ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My personal portfolio currently at 24 stocks, a mix of open positions and part free carry positions, some with multiple entry's to build the free carry component and yield...current PA growth of around 12%
Click to expand...



ok, thanks, i understand 

got to agree with Julia, not sure why you would keep the bulk of your resources outside super, when for contributions up to the 25k/50k pa concessional cap you can get an instant 15% return / bonus (at 30% tax rate) for transferring funds into a lower tax environment where because of that it compounds up at a higher rate, and then becomes tax free when you retire.

edit; post crossed with yours


----------



## skc

So_C.. how old are you? (Apologies in advance for the personal nature of this question and please feel free not to answer).

To me you've always come across as reasonably young (i.e. not close to the usual retirement age) and I've always thought your goal to retire in 10 years is to retire well before that usual retirement age...


----------



## Julia

skc said:


> So_C.. how old are you? (Apologies in advance for the personal nature of this question and please feel free not to answer).
> 
> To me you've always come across as reasonably young (i.e. not close to the usual retirement age) and I've always thought your goal to retire in 10 years is to retire well before that usual retirement age...



 I've had the same impression
We might both be wrong, perhaps.


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> Agree...and that's why ive decided to double my salary sacrifice and in all probability will add to it every year until im maxed out at 25K....im hesitant to sell stocks and throw a lump sum in because i will lose so much investment flexibility.
> 
> Within 2 or 3 years i can see that ill have to put all of my disposable income into super...but would only feel comfortable doing that if my personal portfolio was in tact, i spent to much of my life poor and struggling to just give up control of that money.



This is what I don't get.   If you set up a SMSF you have considerably more control than you have at present, don't you?

I completely agree with not giving anyone else control of your money.  This is part of why I'm surprised at your feeling OK about putting $250K into an annuity.

They can be useful.  I have a very small one (just $25,000).  Now wish I'd put more into it as it's a lifetime annuity.  By the time I can reasonably expect to die, it will have paid me around $60,000 for my $25,000 investment.

It's totally your business, of course, but I just can't understand why you wouldn't have a SMSF which gives you total control over all your investments in a tax advantaged vehicle, rather than putting up with the restrictions of the public superfund you are apparently using now.


----------



## So_Cynical

skc said:


> So_C.. how old are you? (Apologies in advance for the personal nature of this question and please feel free not to answer).
> 
> To me you've always come across as reasonably young (i.e. not close to the usual retirement age) and I've always thought your goal to retire in 10 years is to retire well before that usual retirement age...




I want to retire young, late 50's so that would make me late 40's now.



Julia said:


> It's totally your business, of course, but I just can't understand why you wouldn't have a SMSF which gives you total control over all your investments in a tax advantaged vehicle, rather than putting up with the restrictions of the public superfund you are apparently using now.




Its becoming more and more obvious the further down the super road i travel...that im destined for a SMFS.


----------



## Bill M

So_Cynical, what is your plan of action with GFF? You must be very happy with the 33% jump today? It was only a matter of time when an offer like that was forthcoming, the company was so cheap and an overseas buyer sees the value, good luck mate, hope you make few $$$.


----------



## So_Cynical

Bill M said:


> So_Cynical, what is your plan of action with GFF? You must be very happy with the 33% jump today? It was only a matter of time when an offer like that was forthcoming, the company was so cheap and an overseas buyer sees the value, good luck mate, hope you make few $$$.




Answered you in the GFF thread.

Ill update this thread as soon as i can get outa my GFF position with my dollars in tact...i should say i added IMF to my super portfolio a couple of months ago at $1.35.

i had IMF SLX and BPT short listed and totally went the wrong way


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> i had IMF SLX and *BPT* short listed and totally went the wrong way




4 months later and i finally get the chance to take a BPT trade with my super fund, in today at today's low of $0.88 and again very hopeful of getting the chance to complete super trade #1.       what a pain in the ass it is to still be stuck in all these trades....this certainly hasn't gone as well as i hoped it would.

I also should add that i decided not to increase my salary sacrifice...as i plan (reasonably sure) on buying some Filipino real estate on terms so will need the money to pay it off over 3 > 5 years...just waiting for the dollar and the stock market to go up again.


----------



## So_Cynical

I unexpectedly completed super trade #1 today  I placed a sell order for about 70% of my ABC stock at $3.21 and was surprised to see it get taken out today..so a profit of about 3.6% on the trade and another 6.2% in dividends and franking credits for holding 13 months.

I just really needed to get the win and move on, i now hold 1400 ABC shares at an average price of $2.79 as a long term hold that should be able to bring in a gross dividend yield of very close to 7%  looking to re-enter if the SP drops below that level.

A screen shot below of where my AustSuper portfolio is ATM (+7K in the cash account)  GFF what a bummer, the irony is that one of the main reasons i brought GFF was because i wanted something safe and low risk.  A stock that wasn't speculative, a stock that was an established company with a long history in a very safe industry. 

I can only hope next year makes up for this years woeful performance.
~


----------



## Julia

Thanks for putting up your results, SC.
How do you think you'd be feeling about your system if you were using larger amounts and having to generate an income you could live off?  i.e. no salary or other income to back up your investing/trading.

Would you then significantly change what you're doing in order to generate a consistent profit?
What would you do differently?

(Not meaning to be intrusive or put you on the spot:  just genuinely interested .)


----------



## CanOz

Amazing one would have anything for returns in this chop....good effort SC.

Been 100% fixed interest for the last 11 months in my Super...over *3.9%* return.

CanOz


----------



## So_Cynical

Julia said:


> Thanks for putting up your results, SC.
> How do you think you'd be feeling about your system if you were using larger amounts and having to generate an income you could live off?  i.e. no salary or other income to back up your investing/trading.
> 
> Would you then significantly change what you're doing in order to generate a consistent profit?
> What would you do differently?
> 
> (Not meaning to be intrusive or put you on the spot:  just genuinely interested .)




Good question Julia..made me think in a direction that i haven't really considered.

My first thought was that i would almost have to have a large chunk of my super in a TD or similar, something ultra safe and paying interest every month or quarter but then i think...well i know i can make good money, significantly more than a TD by following the trading/investment strategy that i use with my non super money.

That was and still is the whole idea with this thread and my super fund, its just that it hasn't worked as well as i hoped it would and i have to put that down to shocking timing, coupled with poor (over conservative) stock selection and position sizing for reward not risk.

I've also found that with my other portfolio that just having over 20 stocks seems to produce opportunities to profit, there seems to be a takeover every 6 months or so, and a special dividend and or divestment or the Gold/Oil/Gas/US dollar spikes up...unexpected things happen and because i have a diverse and somewhat large portfolio that seems to turn into profits.

Adding stocks to my Super portfolio will help, i am  now 15 months into this and 3 stocks has become 5 and will soon grow to 6 due to today's exit...long term plans take time.


----------



## Julia

Thanks for the response, SC.   
What I guess I was trying to get at is:  would you place a higher priority on capital preservation than you seem to at present?

You can cope with some substantial losses if you have a separate source of income, but if you didn't have such a separate income, wouldn't you need to reconsider risk?


----------



## So_Cynical

I think i do consider risk but just go about it in a different way...i take calculated risks because i am chasing higher returns so have to put my capital "at risk" the statistics from my non super trading/investment activities prove that my strategy is profitable...its the only weapon i have at my disposal.

Capital preservation means either no risk (TD,s etc) or stop losses which i see as micro non capital preservation, death by a 1000 cuts...i like to think of what im doing as a business and in a business would accepting consistent small losses be acceptable? would an ice cream salesman with 10 ice creams lose money selling 7 ice creams in the hope of getting back the losses on selling the other 3? 

Id rather (feel more comfortable) selling all the ice creams for a profit...or at-least trying to.


----------



## herzy

Interesting read - thanks SC! I'm also in IMF and quite like this company. Very low P/E, but seems to be improving every year! Happy to hold for awhile, and a nice 10c dividend announced today. 

Hope all goes well with the retirement plans. Whereabouts are you in Malaysia?


----------



## So_Cynical

herzy said:


> Interesting read - thanks SC! I'm also in IMF and quite like this company. Very low P/E, but seems to be improving every year! Happy to hold for awhile, and a nice 10c dividend announced today.
> 
> Hope all goes well with the retirement plans. Whereabouts are you in Malaysia?




I'm not in Malaysia yet...and mite not have enough money to make it there anyway 

-------------

On the subject of IMF my sell order got hit today (thanks to the divi ann) so im out for a 8.18% profit on the trade with 1200 shares remaining as a long term, dividend yielding hold...and what a nice dividend it is, 10 CPS Fully Franked, close to a 10% gross yield for me....what a great stock.

Amazing that in just 1 week ive been able to conclude 2 trades that have alluded me for almost 13 months.  this week with this weak market...totally unexpected.

Anyway 13K in the transaction account now as my TOL order didn't get executed ($3.81)


----------



## Huskar

So_Cynical said:


> I think i do consider risk but just go about it in a different way...i take calculated risks because i am chasing higher returns so have to put my capital "at risk" the statistics from my non super trading/investment activities prove that my strategy is profitable...its the only weapon i have at my disposal.
> 
> Capital preservation means either no risk (TD,s etc) or stop losses which i see as micro non capital preservation, death by a 1000 cuts...i like to think of what im doing as a business and in a business would accepting consistent small losses be acceptable? would an ice cream salesman with 10 ice creams lose money selling 7 ice creams in the hope of getting back the losses on selling the other 3?
> 
> Id rather (feel more comfortable) selling all the ice creams for a profit...or at-least trying to.




There is more than one way to skin a cat...

A business often loss-leads on sales to gain market share/brand awareness etc.

And some very interesting strategies in the market consist of taking lots of small losses in anticipation of one outsized win.

For example structuring a position that will win a bit if the price rises, lose a little if the price stays the same, and win big if the price declines.

Or being both hyperconservative and hyperaggresive at the same time.

But such a strategy requires some counter-intuitive thinking and skepticism of the bell curve.


----------



## So_Cynical

I purchased 850 CPU shares today at $7.45 and seriously considered taking a profit on my BPT holding..but i reckon oil could run a little so ill hold off for a few days and see what happens.


----------



## So_Cynical

I added FKP to the super portfolio today at 15000 @ 0.375 ~ after the housing starts announcement the SP got as high as 0.40 before closing at 0.39 ~ nice to be in profit straight away...a rare event in these times.

So im now almost fully invested again, i have 1K in the transaction account in the hope that i can exit one of the  (now) 5 open positions..it took a while but the plan is coming good.
~


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> I added FKP to the super portfolio today at 15000 @ 0.375 ~ after the housing starts announcement the SP got as high as 0.40 before closing at 0.39 ~ nice to be in profit straight away...a rare event in these times.
> 
> So im now almost fully invested again, i have 1K in the transaction account in the hope that i can exit one of the  (now) 5 open positions..it took a while but the plan is coming good.
> ~




Now i have 5.5K in the transaction account thanks to the 20.55% profit i received today after my exit of 3900 shares in BPT @ 1.07  (wish i could do that every 3 weeks  ) Also nice to see my Super balance starting with a 6 for the very first time.

Now im in 2 minds as to what's next?, do i wait for a pull-back down to 4050 or do i just jump straight in and hope the rally continues? Maybe a quality miner. :dunno: Maybe the Ishares small cap ETF as a mining proxy. :dunno: its nice to actually have these decisions to make, shows im making progress.


----------



## Ves

Hey - I'm currently looking at options of gaining more control over my "minimal" super account.  It looks like they have improved the AustSuper service to allow for 80% of balance to be in ASX300 direct shares / term deposits of your choice and also live market ordering (as if you were using an online broker like Commsec).  Is this correct?


----------



## So_Cynical

Ves said:


> Hey - I'm currently looking at options of gaining more control over my "minimal" super account.  It looks like they have improved the AustSuper service to allow for 80% of balance to be in ASX300 direct shares / term deposits of your choice and also live market ordering (as if you were using an online broker like Commsec).  Is this correct?




Yes correct...just like comsec except much slower..takes maybe 20 or 30 seconds for your order to go thru, and then a few minutes later you can see the executed buy order on the transactions page.

------------------

AustSuper need to take the next step now and expand the Superdirect option to include the all ordinary's and include the best (largest cap) 12 hybrids and the best 12 LICs....it is inevitable so why not just get on with it, oh and they also need to drop the brokerage fees..paying around $20 for a 5K trade seems a bit much considering the market pull that Aust biggest superfund would have.

----------------

Also i have added SDM - Sedgman to the super portfolio @ 1.52, paid a bit much though  darn impatience...low debt and some cash with a very strong pipeline of projects.


----------



## Ves

Cheers mate.  I use Commsec with my personal shares, so I guess the brokerage doesn't phase me too much.  I'm not trading short-term or medium-term.  Brokerage in Australia with the majors is probably comparatively expensive though, can't disagree there.

I guess I need to get off my **** and fill some forms out and get my money rolled over.  Is it as easy as applying on-line,  getting some ID certified and filling out a rollover form & insurance application and they will do the rest?


----------



## So_Cynical

Ves said:


> I guess I need to get off my **** and fill some forms out and get my money rolled over.  Is it as easy as applying on-line,  getting some ID certified and filling out a rollover form & insurance application and they will do the rest?




I use Commsec for my private trading/investing to.

--------------

Assuming you don't have an AustSuper account, its going to take 2/3 to 5/6 weeks to get it all done, 2/3 if it all goes well and 5/6 if it doesn't...with me it didn't because i had 2 super accounts that i rolled into AustSuper and one of the cheques was somehow lost :dunno: yes i said cheques because they do actually use cheques. 

From memory you setup the AustSuper account first with the usual requirements and then fund it by filling out the rollover form/s from your other accounts and posting it....snail mail and cheques in 2012. the account you open is just a normal one and once its established and funded you open a Membersdirect account that like attaches to you normal account (has its own web site, login and password) and you do your trading from the Membersdirect site.

http://www.australiansuper.com/inve...e/super-investment-choices/member-direct.aspx


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> I added FKP to the super portfolio today at 15000 @ 0.375




Superfund trade #4 completed today due to the execution of my FKP sell order, 11.1% profit on the 11000 shares i sold, with the remaining 4000 shares left in as a long term hold.

Original capital deployed $5625 = 15000 shares.
Capital/profit withdrawn $4620 = 11000 shares.
Capital/profit remaining $1660 = 4000 shares. 

Love it.

4 super fund trades exited in profit in just 7 weeks...im on fire, not to mention that my CPU trade is 9.4% in profit, from memory the sell order is in at $8.45 i think...thinking about it ill have to wait until i exit CPU then ill spilt the remaining cash into 2 equal lots.


----------



## So_Cynical

Opportunity presented its self to me today in the form of SAI so i added it to the super portfolio @ 3.89 (including brokerage ~ 0.02 cps) leaving my transaction account with about $10 in it and a total of 9 stocks in my portfolio...interesting that the closed trade profit is now equal to the portfolio paper loss, the systems working and $600+ in dividends/credits to come.



I posted in the SAI thread here https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3824
~


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> (2nd-July-2012) I purchased 850 CPU shares today at *$7.45* and seriously considered taking a profit on my BPT holding..but i reckon oil could run a little so ill hold off for a few days and see what happens.




I sold 550 CPU shares today @ *$8.27* for a profit of 9.9% with the 2.2% dividend to come, paid on the whole holding...so all in all a pretty good result for a 45 day trade...SAI up a little again today and SDM under performing the sector.

MMmm i wonder if i get the franking credits seeing that i was in the trade for 45 days and its held by a superfund. :dunno:

Anyway UGL looks interesting...i like the idea of global property services.


----------



## skc

So_Cynical said:


> SAI up a little again today and SDM under performing the sector.




Got some SDM after the trading update and you are right about it under performing the sector. I haven't seen any analyst report covering the update and it appears that Perpetual has been a seller.

The actual financial report for SDM is not coming out until 23 Aug, so we might see a bit more conviction after that. That's my holding plan anyway...


----------



## So_Cynical

skc said:


> Got some SDM after the trading update and you are right about it under performing the sector. I haven't seen any analyst report covering the update and it appears that Perpetual has been a seller.
> 
> The actual financial report for SDM is not coming out until 23 Aug, so we might see a bit more conviction after that. That's my holding plan anyway...




The day i brought it i made a watchlist of 15 mining and civil services stocks, SDM is the stand out worst performer, just my luck hey..i make a list of 15 stocks and spend the whole day going over them all (having a sicky) i mean like 6 solid hours just to come up with the worst performer.

Anyway im tempted to double up or at lest buy a few more but just don't have the funds and they haven't really fallen enough....i have $4500 to go back into something and have decided to pass on SDM and UGL.


----------



## So_Cynical

WHC - Whitehaven Coal became Super stock #10 today...a bit of a mile stone  16 Months into this and i have gone from 4 stocks to 10 ~ i have added $11600 to the transaction account with the bulk of that back in late 2011 to buy IMF (7K) but haven't added anything at all since May...other than that its just dividends that get added to the transaction account.

So 16 months in and i can confirm that i am in actual profit, it may be only $1800 or so but it is profit...perhaps a 4.3% profit in 16 months, considering the GFF hole i was in just 10 and 3 months ago its a pretty good result i reckon.
~


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> So 16 months in and i can confirm that i am in actual profit, it may be only $1800 or so but it is profit...perhaps a 4.3% profit in 16 months, considering the GFF hole i was in just 10 and 3 months ago its a pretty good result i reckon.
> ~



4.3% in 16 months?
You'd have done better in cash with a lot less effort involved.


----------



## So_Cynical

Julia said:


> 4.3% in 16 months?
> You'd have done better in cash with a lot less effort involved.




True, however this is a long term adventure so lets see how im going in May next year, that will be 2 years in total and will provide a more genuine picture of how this long term plan is working out.

Thinking about it

The day i put my cash into a bank is basically the day i give up...or the day when all my 'effort' has been rewarded.


----------



## prawn_86

Julia said:


> 4.3% in 16 months?
> You'd have done better in cash with a lot less effort involved.




Depends on what tax bracket he is in and the holding period and franking credits of the shares he owns


----------



## skc

Julia said:


> 4.3% in 16 months?
> You'd have done better in cash with a lot less effort involved.




Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Can't fault someone for trying...


----------



## VSntchr

skc said:


> Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Can't fault someone for trying...




Also, the knowledge gained through the process has a value too...


----------



## George Washingto

So_Cynical said:


> WHC - Whitehaven Coal became Super stock #10 today...a bit of a mile stone  16 Months into this and i have gone from 4 stocks to 10 ~ i have added $11600 to the transaction account with the bulk of that back in late 2011 to buy IMF (7K) but haven't added anything at all since May...other than that its just dividends that get added to the transaction account.
> 
> So 16 months in and i can confirm that i am in actual profit, it may be only $1800 or so but it is profit...perhaps a 4.3% profit in 16 months, considering the GFF hole i was in just 10 and 3 months ago its a pretty good result i reckon.
> ~




Does anyone know what portfolio software that screenshot is from?


----------



## Julia

So_Cynical said:


> True, however this is a long term adventure so lets see how im going in May next year, that will be 2 years in total and will provide a more genuine picture of how this long term plan is working out.
> 
> Thinking about it
> 
> The day i put my cash into a bank is basically the day i give up...or the day when all my 'effort' has been rewarded.



Disagree.  There are times when it's simply more profitable to go to cash.


skc said:


> Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Can't fault someone for trying...



I'm not faulting anyone, skc.  Simply pointing out a bit of reality.
Prawn's point, however, is very valid.


----------



## So_Cynical

George Washingto said:


> Does anyone know what portfolio software that screenshot is from?




Stator

http://www.stator-afm.com/

Also its not a single screen shot..i had to edit 2 screen shots then paste one at the bottom of the other...so i could get all the info in.



Julia said:


> Disagree.  There are times when it's simply more profitable to go to cash.




No Disagree.  with the exception of a bubble burst like March 2008 to march 2009, it is a more profitable proposition to stay in the market as proven by my non super results since mid 2007...the slightly below average result that i have achieved with my super over the last 16 months is due almost entirely to 1 poor stock selection.

GFF would certainly be one of the worst ASX300 performers over the last 16 months, definitely in the bottom 15 or 20% i would think...any of the bank or financials would of given a much more positive result...even RIO and BHP would of been a better result.

Due to money constraints at the time i had to choose 3 stocks and i got one very wrong...even if i had spread the money out a little thinner over 4 stocks this would of almost certainly given me a better result...anyway this is a silly exercise, just take the super portfolio performance over the last 3 months with trading profits of 3.7% factor that out over 12 months and you get 14.8% PA, but that's a silly exercise to.

May next year will provide a clear picture...2 years into a 7 to 9 year plan.


----------



## Julia

We'll all do what we believe in.  Good luck to you.


----------



## burglar

So_Cynical said:


> No Disagree.  with the exception of a bubble burst like March 2008 to march 2009, it is a more profitable proposition to stay in the market ...




+1 Well done!

Richard Farleigh says there are times when it is good to be out of the markets.
He and I don't fly in the same social circles, so I don't know when that is!


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> (18th-August-2012)
> 
> Due to money constraints at the time i had to choose 3 stocks and i got one very wrong...even if i had spread the money out a little thinner over 4 stocks this would of almost certainly given me a better result...anyway this is a silly exercise, just take the super portfolio performance over the last 3 months with trading profits of 3.7% factor that out over 12 months and you get 14.8% PA, but that's a silly exercise to.
> 
> *May next year will provide a clear picture...2 years into a 7 to 9 year plan.*




The last couple of days have seen my super portfolio go up by around 1.5% so i figured it was a good time for an update as we approach the 2 years mark this coming May 2013.

The Numbers

 11 Open trades/positions - 0.66% ($351.41)
 6 Closed trades + 8.60% ($2786.43)
 14 Dividend payments + 5.78% ($3064.24) Gross
 Total return over 20 months, a touch over 11%

A reasonable outcome considering the bath i took early on with GFF and FKP, both of them recently recovering some open losses to now only be about 22% and 12% down...Total return over the last 20 months of a touch over 11%  not to shabby....and that's with the open portfolio still negative.
~


----------



## DJG

Well done mate.
Just commenting so I know to look back at the thread, very interesting!


----------



## skc

So_Cynical said:


> [*] Total return over 20 months, a touch over 11%
> [/list]
> 
> A reasonable outcome considering the bath i took early on with GFF and FKP, both of them recently recovering some open losses to now only be about 22% and 12% down...Total return over the last 20 months of a touch over 11%  not to shabby....and that's with the open portfolio still negative.
> ~




The total return of the "balanced" option in Australian Super is 10.86% from mid May 2011 to today. So your return is about the same. I guess you did beat the benchmark so it's been a worthwhile exercise...


----------



## So_Cynical

skc said:


> The total return of the "balanced" option in Australian Super is 10.86% from mid May 2011 to today. So your return is about the same. I guess you did beat the benchmark so it's been a worthwhile exercise...




I'm not done with yet...The portfolio grew by another $343 today so just 0.02% in the red...almost positive. 

SAI and QBE are almost in the sell zone so that will add to the closed trade profits, dividends to come over the next 4 months will add another 2.5% to my result, by May i could end up with a result that's over 14% (7% PA) in just closed trades and dividends, open profit will be a bonus.


----------



## Bill M

Well done So Cynical, can you give us an up to date report on Aust Super?

Are you happy with them as the Administrators?

Are you happy with the choices available to you?

Are you looking at perhaps changing to someone else in the near future, if yes who?

Have you been thinking more about starting a SMSF or is that not viable and you still prefer someone like Aust Super?

Just wondering as I'm still thinking of going your way rather than starting a SMSF, cheers.


----------



## So_Cynical

Bill M said:


> Well done So Cynical, can you give us an up to date report on Aust Super?




Sure happy to.



Bill M said:


> Are you happy with them as the Administrators?




On a 'you only get what you pay for' basis.. yes im happy, its $180 bucks a year and for that you just cant expect much more than what Aussie super gives.



Bill M said:


> Are you happy with the choices available to you?




Overall no, realistically the choice for stocks needs to be expanded to the all Ords and include all the LIC's and all the ETF's and all the Hybrids (with limits)..personally i would like to see the whole ASX opened up for at least a small % of the account, say 10%



Bill M said:


> Are you looking at perhaps changing to someone else in the near future, if yes who?




At the moment the choice just isn't there..im sure over the years the choices will improve...i will stay with AustSuper for the foreseeable future.



Bill M said:


> Have you been thinking more about starting a SMSF or is that not viable and you still prefer someone like Aust Super?




With a total account balance of less than 70K the numbers just don't add up for a SMSF, even the cheapest option...not yet anyway.



Bill M said:


> Just wondering as I'm still thinking of going your way rather than starting a SMSF, cheers.




I hope my answers help Bill...


----------



## Bill M

Thanks mate, your answers kind of make me lean towards the ING Living Super one. It has more choice but you can only put in 50% of your portfolio into the shares option. That isn't much of an issue with me because I would probably keep 50% in fixed terms, cash or bonds anyway.

I just did a YTD (31/12/3012) check on a few Industry funds. I think by 30/06/2013 cash will return around 3% and some fixed interest/bonds pre mixed options around 5%. That is making me nervous thinking I can do better. I'm not far away from signing up.

Thanks again for the update.


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> (17th-January-2013)
> 
> SAI and QBE are almost in the sell zone so that will add to the closed trade profits, dividends to come over the next 4 months will add another 2.5% to my result, by May i could end up with a result that's over 14% (7% PA) in just closed trades and dividends, open profit will be a bonus.




Its been a big month  completed my second SAI trade (9.32% profit) two weeks ago and the QBE trade (16.55% profit) today...some stats.


 Total super value: $71856.34
 Total Trading profit: $3665.32
 Closed Trades: 9
 Net Closed Profit: 9.40%
 Average P/L Trade: $407.26
 Average P/L Day: $5.80 (632 days total)
 Dividends Received: $2493.75 (6.39%)

With another round of dividends to come..on target for a gross PA return of at least 8.6% (as long at the market holds up)

for comparison

AustSuper Balanced Fund Performance (as at 31st Jan 2013) 2 year % PA return 6.59%


----------



## JTLP

So_Cynical said:


> The last couple of days have seen my super portfolio go up by around 1.5% so i figured it was a good time for an update as we approach the 2 years mark this coming May 2013.
> 
> The Numbers
> 
> 11 Open trades/positions - 0.66% ($351.41)
> 6 Closed trades + 8.60% ($2786.43)
> 14 Dividend payments + 5.78% ($3064.24) Gross
> Total return over 20 months, a touch over 11%
> 
> A reasonable outcome considering the bath i took early on with GFF and FKP, both of them recently recovering some open losses to now only be about 22% and 12% down...Total return over the last 20 months of a touch over 11%  not to shabby....and that's with the open portfolio still negative.
> ~




Hey mate,

Great thread and interesting read!

Just wondering what the software/spreadsheet setup you were using for calculation. Looks very neat + simple!


----------



## So_Cynical

JTLP said:


> Hey mate,
> 
> Great thread and interesting read!
> 
> Just wondering what the software/spreadsheet setup you were using for calculation. Looks very neat + simple!




Stator version 2.2 Standard, is what i use.

http://www.stator-afm.com/

They recently released a new version 3.0 ~ There is a thread for Stator on the forum.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2270


----------



## So_Cynical

Completed my third SAI trade last week for a trade profit of around 13% with divis 18.5%

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3824&p=795990&viewfull=1#post795990

Now holding 1000 SAI shares with most of them free carried, have activated the Dividend reinvestment option with AustSuper this FY, annoying that its an all in option only....overall the last 6 months has been a quiet time with the super fund portfolio, still trying to get out of GFF with a profit. 

Oh i added IPL to the portfolio a few months back @ 2.77 and have 4600 in the transaction account waiting for a market pull back.


----------



## So_Cynical

I sold out of FKP today, 8.8% trade profit, just happy to get out in front. 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673&page=7&p=799027&viewfull=1#post799027

So overall portfolio now down 1.24% thanks the Sedgeman and Whitehaven, all time closed trades below.
~


----------



## So_Cynical

A few changes...been spending some money

Bought 1360 TWE today at $4.49 and last week doubled my SLX position @ $2.40 and doubled my IPL position @ $2.69 ~ $800 left in the transaction account.


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> Bought 1360 TWE today at $4.49




Sold 1200 TWE today for ($4.735) a 4.71% profit .. totally acceptable for holding 2 weeks  the plan is to buy in again when the SP revisits the $4.50 level and in the mean time recycle the capital into TRY and hope/wait for the POG bounce.

Be great if i could do 2 or 3 switches between the 2 over the next 3 to 6 months and leave the profits in each time.


----------



## So_Cynical

So_Cynical said:


> (28th-October-2013) A few changes...been spending some money, doubled my IPL position @ $2.69




Out today at $3.11 for a profit of 11.3% leaving my remaining 750 IPL shares with an average price of $2.69 and $5200 in the transaction account of which $4700 is available to trade with.

Ill wait for a bit of a pull back i think.

-------------

Australian super has just started sending email trade confirmations, almost 3 years since launching the Members direct option.  better late than never i suppose, however the appalling lack of detail is typical AustSuper.

Here's the email they sent me.

--------------

Member Direct alert: Your IPL.AU order is complete

Dear So_Cynical

Your recent IPL.AU Sell order is complete. Your Member Direct investment balance has been updated to reflect your trade. Your trade will be settled in three business days.

Sincerely

---------------

And that's it.


----------



## daffyd23

So_Cynical said:


> Yes correct...just like comsec except much slower..takes maybe 20 or 30 seconds for your order to go thru, and then a few minutes later you can see the executed buy order on the transactions page.
> 
> ------------------
> 
> AustSuper need to take the next step now and expand the Superdirect option to include the all ordinary's and include the best (largest cap) 12 hybrids and the best 12 LICs....it is inevitable so why not just get on with it, oh and they also need to drop the brokerage fees..paying around $20 for a 5K trade seems a bit much considering the market pull that Aust biggest superfund would have.




I was wondering, would you mind being asked about what itemised (e.g. tax) reporting Australian Super provide for their member direct option?  It's hard to tell exactly from their website/promotional material.

When you get a dividend do they separate the dividend payment from the tax paid on it?
Do they itemise franking credits for each holding?
Do they split out the tax paid on interest in the transaction account from the interest or is it listed only after tax?
Am I right in thinking that if you hold a position you still pay (unrealised) capital gains tax quarterly?  Again for a non-accountant the info they put up isn't clear to me.

Greatly appreciate you posting about your experience.


----------



## So_Cynical

daffyd23 said:


> I was wondering, would you mind being asked about what itemised (e.g. tax) reporting Australian Super provide for their member direct option?  It's hard to tell exactly from their website/promotional material.
> 
> When you get a dividend do they separate the dividend payment from the tax paid on it?
> Do they itemise franking credits for each holding?
> Do they split out the tax paid on interest in the transaction account from the interest or is it listed only after tax?
> Am I right in thinking that if you hold a position you still pay (unrealised) capital gains tax quarterly?  Again for a non-accountant the info they put up isn't clear to me.
> 
> Greatly appreciate you posting about your experience.




There is some level of itemisation but its not detailed, because its all done within the fund you don't have to report anything as the fund takes care of all that, CGT tax is only paid when the asset is sold so nothing is taken quarterly.

Itemised: transaction account interest, dividends and franking credits, brokerage and tax taken, fees and anything that gets credited....hope that helps.


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## daffyd23

So_Cynical said:


> There is some level of itemisation but its not detailed, because its all done within the fund you don't have to report anything as the fund takes care of all that, CGT tax is only paid when the asset is sold so nothing is taken quarterly.
> 
> Itemised: transaction account interest, dividends and franking credits, brokerage and tax taken, fees and anything that gets credited....hope that helps.




Thanks!

I'm more thinking about if I go overseas: some countries will tax super punitively if in 'funds' but may be more lenient with individual share holdings (and if individual taxes are itemised then it may be possible to claim back foreign tax credits).


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