# % loss in portfolio?



## sleeper88 (16 August 2007)

How much has your share portfolio changed over this volitile period?


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## coladuna (16 August 2007)

*Re: % loss in portfolio*

Gone from 30% profit to 10% loss in the last 4-5 weeks.
Long-term outlook backfired I suppose.
Seems like selling when it's up is more safe than holding onto it for long-term growth these days.


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## powerkoala (16 August 2007)

60% of total portfolio
funny is it? or stupid?
can't say what is going on


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## Morgan (16 August 2007)

About 1% per minute this morning!
Thanking my lucky stars I sold 50% of my portfolio straight away when this all started a couple of weeks ago- should have liquidated the lot in hindsight?
Is there a "Smilie" for "sick feeling in my stomach"???


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## nioka (16 August 2007)

A lot of red ink but still in the green overall for the year(calender) to date. Not selling though as it is hard to pick the turning point, Trading is gambling. Every stock I hold has potential and I can see a fairly quick resolution to the problem which is bad for those using other peoples money but only a hiccup for those using their own. There is a lesson in this.


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## sleeper88 (16 August 2007)

hindsight is a lovely word isn't?..i wish i could purchase some hindsight from woolies  and save me the pain of seeing red across my entire portfolio and watchlist


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## dj_420 (16 August 2007)

Morgan said:


> About 1% per minute this morning!
> Thanking my lucky stars I sold 50% of my portfolio straight away when this all started a couple of weeks ago- should have liquidated the lot in hindsight?
> Is there a "Smilie" for "sick feeling in my stomach"???




i liquidated 70% of portfolio, but yeah that doesnt seem like i sold enough now..... i think i have lost around 20 000 of profits so far. and i thought i was been clever taking 50 odd k out of the market!


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## mb1 (16 August 2007)

Now standing at 45% total loss. I only hold uranium shares, and am not selling


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## nioka (16 August 2007)

nioka said:


> A lot of red ink but still in the green overall for the year(calender) to date. Not selling though as it is hard to pick the turning point, Trading is gambling. Every stock I hold has potential and I can see a fairly quick resolution to the problem which is bad for those using other peoples money but only a hiccup for those using their own. There is a lesson in this.




Correction. Another drop in AOE has now put me in the red on my portfolio for stocks on hand. I do have some profit on stocks sold during the period. My sentiments are still the same although it could be time to trade and tie in some tax losses. i.e. sell at a loss and buy straight back.


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## megla (16 August 2007)

mb1 said:


> Now standing at 45% total loss.




Ah, thank god I'm not the only one! Sitting at 42% here. Pulled out anything that wasn't a double digit loss! trying to get cashed up to dive back in.


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## numbercruncher (16 August 2007)

Smelt a rat a month ago, otherwise id be 50pc down ....


Thank god for smelly rats !


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## YOUNG_TRADER (16 August 2007)

I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks   

I'm going back on holiday!


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## adobee (16 August 2007)

Down 30% liquidated today about 90% of my portfolio only looking at zinifex now as I think i might be seeing value.. I was going to sell out last week but doubled up thinking I would see an upturn this week.. badmove! anyway I always say you can only risk it if you are prepared to loose it..


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## springhill (16 August 2007)

Morgan said:


> About 1% per minute this morning!
> Thanking my lucky stars I sold 50% of my portfolio straight away when this all started a couple of weeks ago- should have liquidated the lot in hindsight?
> Is there a "Smilie" for "sick feeling in my stomach"???





There is a smilie for everything  also this may apply:fan: and this :flush:


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## bingk6 (16 August 2007)

mb1 said:


> Now standing at 45% total loss. I only hold uranium shares, and am not selling




My goodness, you're one brave dude. All the best.


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## prawn_86 (16 August 2007)

*Re: % loss in portfolio*



coladuna said:


> Gone from 30% profit to 10% loss in the last 4-5 weeks.
> Long-term outlook backfired I suppose.
> Seems like selling when it's up is more safe than holding onto it for long-term growth these days.




me also but i've gone from 30% up to 30% down. oh well...


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## benwex (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




YT that makes me feel better............sorry

I have given up $150,000..

Where is a good cheap place to go for a holiday??


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## krisbarry (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!





Wow, that is steep, I am sorry to hear of your loss


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## sam76 (16 August 2007)

Stop_the_clock said:


> Wow, that is steep, I am sorry to hear of your loss





yeah, but me thinks it's not so much in percentage terms.....


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## ta2693 (16 August 2007)

my situation is worse. I want to sell my sells. but IB removed all my shares from my account which made me unable to sell in the afternoon. in addition they  reversed sell trading I have done for margin call reason. i.e. they buy shares for me yesterday automatically.  I still can not do anything before the problem solved.


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## zt3000 (16 August 2007)

Almost -50%  

Partly due to some stupidy and risk taking which got burnt on

haha

Well its all a learning process

Lets just hope this doesnt spread to the Australian Property market ... any discussion on this point?


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## numbercruncher (16 August 2007)

ta2693 said:


> my situation is worse. I want to sell my sells. but IB remove all my shares from my account which made me unable to sell in the afternoon. in addition they  reversed sell trading I have done for margin call reason. i.e. they buy shares for me yesterday automatically.





Id be seeking legal advice regarding this TA


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## numbercruncher (16 August 2007)

zt3000 said:


> Almost -50%
> 
> Partly due to some stupidy and risk taking which got burnt on
> 
> ...





I think spread to the property market will be a natural transgression at this stage.


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## CanOz (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




Types like you always bounce back YT. Great traders, fundamental or otherwise always have one thing in common...the ability to get up off the floor and do it all again.

Cheers,


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## mime (16 August 2007)

powerkoala said:


> 60% of total portfolio
> funny is it? or stupid?
> can't say what is going on




That's alot. You didn't buy Rams did you? I don't know what stocks you have but hold you groud. When the chaos is over the market should continue it's upward march.


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## Bushman (16 August 2007)

Are we talking paper losses here? 

Only a loss when you sell. 

Ugly today, uglier tomorrow, better next week, back to where you started in 3 to 6 months? Then we can start a poll on how much paper you have gained since the end of the correction. 

Ha - human nature is a funny thing.


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## Julia (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




YT, do you mean this is actually a realised loss ?


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## Absolutely (16 August 2007)

christ this is getting really scary now.

All ords down 300 points now..............but why ????

Why are we doubling the dow falls each day ? We in Australia are supposed to have limited exposure.

My portfolio easily down 50% now - easily.

I have cash to throw in by geez some one will have to pry it out of my grip right now - how far is this going to go ?????????????


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## skiper (16 August 2007)

:ald:just below 60% has been wiped off my portfolio, the biggest hit being FNTO


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## alankew (16 August 2007)

Back to square one for me,almost all profit for year gone,what is really sickening is seeing companies that I believe have a bright future and have made positive announcements during the past few weeks and they still get slaughtered.At leat i have some expensive paper to decorate the walls with-too slow to move(stupid and dumbstruck) and protect my capital but the speed of this thing has caught a lot of people out


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## YELNATS (16 August 2007)

My SMSF is probably down 12% since the correction started a few weeks ago. I still think that's a bit better than the overall market.

All Ords down over 300 today suggests hysteria by sellers. Not a good time to sell IMO.

As Capt Chaza would say, make for port and ride out the storm.

regards YN


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## Judd (16 August 2007)

Just calculated that I am down 7% so I am a lot better off than others.

PS:  I don't trade and only hold stuff in the top 200 alongside LICs and ETFs.


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## ideaforlife (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




Holiday is a good idea!


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## OK2 (16 August 2007)

I am only out 15%, my education lesson came with the last correction early last year and that cost me 15% also. No easy money in this game!!!

Just came back from a Retail Expo in Melb and have never seen so many phone and internet devices so closely tuned to the market news. Could of been a Stock Expo and you would not be able to tell the difference, as one man said "after all we do all have superannuation invested." ha!


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## purple (16 August 2007)

Bushman said:


> Are we talking paper losses here?
> 
> Only a loss when you sell.
> 
> ...




Yeah, guys - paper or real losses? I think there's a mix, reading though the posts.

my total portfolio has a -20% paper loss, has been spared a little as I'm in other countries' markets, which has not been affected that badly by the US fiasco.

my Aus portfolio has a -40% paper loss. can't believe why Australia has to be like a blind folded sheep and follow US so closely.


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## nioka (16 August 2007)

The poll is out of date. If I could vote again the percentage would be different? Looks like it needs an update.


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## sleeper88 (16 August 2007)

nioka said:


> The poll is out of date. If I could vote again the percentage would be different? Looks like it needs an update.




hahahaha..thx for the reminder nioka..time to increase those percentages eh?


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## ta2693 (16 August 2007)

agree today I lost more than 15% of my holding value.


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## Gigabyte (16 August 2007)

Hi all,

I feel your pain,  I'm down 10% was thinking of buying a house as the prices are so cheap, that won't be happening too soon.

At one stage was thinking of topping my shares but I think I'll wait till this all settles down.

A wise old man once said

"America sneezes and Australia catches a cold"

Good luck everyone!


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## ahspritemk (16 August 2007)

I reckon im down about 60-80%. MTN and CUL made up pretty much most of my portfolio and they have taken a pounding up the rear sideways! 
I didnt have a huge portfolio, about $12k at the most as im only 19. This is a real pain in the **** as i work 25 hours a week for that money and im a full time uni student. I was hoping to use that money on a house deposit when im 23 or so. But I do see an upside, if people have less money and loans are not handed out so easily, then hopefully housing will become at least $12k cheaper and i end up even. Possible I can save that much again over the next 6 months and pick up some bargains. 
This is definately a good learning experience and been a rush, but it is not priceless lol.


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## Awesomandy (16 August 2007)

Well, there goes most of my life savings. I've just sold off some of my remaining positions a couple of hours ago too, and, as my luck goes, the market bounced. 

EDIT: It's not as bad as it sounds, actually. I've only started my life savings a year ago, and I'm young enough to have never had any money on the market during any previous correction periods. One thing for sure is, my system has never been tested/used during down periods. 

It looks like I won't be getting much sleep for quite some time - not from the loss of money, but from watching, analysing, and trying to learn as much as I can.


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## waz (16 August 2007)

I think the bands for the poll need to be altered, a majority of us are in the 
-20% plus bracket.

although when u see things like this, its nice to know your not the only one who is screwed. 

i should have exited all my pre-june 30 investements on the first day of july.

the tax deduction was my only reason to reinvest. i had previously sold everything in april and was sitting on a tidy 25% profit for the first 4 months of the year.


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## Struzball (16 August 2007)

even if people bought a month ago, still a better investment than a big screen tv or brand new car, I'll try to be optimistic.


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## rico01 (16 August 2007)

I,m down 500k in capital since the 27 th of july , that was the day I started selling some of my stock just in case things went bad . over the last 3 weeks i sold Cbh @ 60.5 Yml @60c POL at 56 .Glad i did now cos it could be much worse.
   ' The market Givith and the market taketh away"


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## YOUNG_TRADER (16 August 2007)

I should keep things in perspective guys, 

At the start of the year my portfolio was worth $500k maybe, 4 weeks ago it was $2m, today probably $1.35m so for the year I'm still wayyyy up,


But I'm not worried, as the fundamentals haven't changed for me

Fear is ruling the mkts at the moment


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## ahspritemk (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I should keep things in perspective guys,
> 
> At the start of the year my portfolio was worth $500k maybe, 4 weeks ago it was $2m, today probably $1.35m so for the year I'm still wayyyy up,
> 
> ...




Just out of curiousity how old are you young_trader?


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## motion (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I should keep things in perspective guys,
> 
> At the start of the year my portfolio was worth $500k maybe, 4 weeks ago it was $2m, today probably $1.35m so for the year I'm still wayyyy up,
> 
> ...





WOW --  YT here I’ am trading thinking 50k was a lot of money... 

Can I ask did you use margin lending or just hard cash to get to this position ? If it's not too personal to ask? I also know it takes a lot of brains as well


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## GRTRADER (16 August 2007)

Yep im down quite a lot - i just wish i had more spare case - i picked up some stock today which i think will help offset these losses over the next 6 months or so. Luckily i have no plans to sell what i hold for at least 6 months or probably longer so im not too worried - if its still down then i will be a little annoyed but hey what can you do?


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## Lycon (16 August 2007)

lost 37% of my portfolio wish i went with my gut and liquified it. decided i will batton down the hatches and weather the storm>


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## springhill (16 August 2007)

I personally only stared investing last October not knowing a whole lot about sharemarkets, since that time investing $25,000, not a whole lot in the scheme of things but is big money to me, 2 weeks ago i was sitting on $49,000. Today i have $29,000, still above my working capital. In all honesty im not worried, **** happens and i was always in for the long haul. In hindsight should have bailed out 1 month ago but im lucky enough to be in a position to ride out the bumps. Ive learnt a bit in that time, but still probably know SFA, but you have never gained/lost anything til you actually sell and put the money in the bank, the rest is BS and paper profit/loss. Not sure how much further the market can fall, especially at this rate, but IMO as a novice this has gone beyond the pale and will be looking to pick up some bargains tomorrow especially if US tanks overnight


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## jonojpsg (16 August 2007)

nioka said:


> Correction. Another drop in AOE has now put me in the red on my portfolio for stocks on hand. I do have some profit on stocks sold during the period. My sentiments are still the same although it could be time to trade and tie in some tax losses. i.e. sell at a loss and buy straight back.




This sounds like a good idea - is anyone else thinking this way?  I know you lose on the brokerage and buy/sell spread, but surely if, as most of us are discussing, you are sitting on a 30 or 40% paper loss, say $10k for ease of calculation.  If you sell up then buy straight back in, you then have a $10k loss to offset against any gains you make on the way back up (if there is a way back up).  At a marginal rate of 30% that's $3k value, which I would have thought would far outweigh any costs involved.

WHat do others think?


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## Wysiwyg (16 August 2007)

GRTRADER said:


> Yep im down quite a lot - i just wish i had more spare case - i picked up some stock today which i think will help offset these losses over the next 6 months or so. Luckily i have no plans to sell what i hold for at least 6 months or probably longer so im not too worried - if its still down then i will be a little annoyed but hey what can you do?




Similar thoughts as mine grtrader.....a green day or two will do wonders for the brain.lol


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## waz (16 August 2007)

Im actually happy i took out 50k from my 150k portfolio back in november last year to buy a car.
my car has fallen in value by 6k at the most (lets say 12%), whereas my 100k which i still had invested has fared much worse.


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## morlock (16 August 2007)

Well, I just started trading in may and was making a mild profit on a small amount of money. Now my whole portfolio is down 37%. I sold off some stocks at a mild loss to free up some cash to take advantage and top up some of my other holdings that I thought had more potential. Managed to sell off EMR at 33cents for a big one off profit take before the plunge....glad I did!


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## barnz2k (16 August 2007)

jonojpsg said:


> This sounds like a good idea - is anyone else thinking this way?  I know you lose on the brokerage and buy/sell spread, but surely if, as most of us are discussing, you are sitting on a 30 or 40% paper loss, say $10k for ease of calculation.  If you sell up then buy straight back in, you then have a $10k loss to offset against any gains you make on the way back up (if there is a way back up).  At a marginal rate of 30% that's $3k value, which I would have thought would far outweigh any costs involved.
> 
> What do others think?




Very interesting idea. Especially if you already planned to sell something in this F. Year anyways. 

Personally I was still up 1-2 weeks ago, before buying a "cheap" bnb, which proceeded to drop a futher 20% after its initial 11% or so. Putting me down some what along with the drop in ALL my other shares.


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## mb1 (16 August 2007)

Im starting to swing back up -45% to -39%. Looks like im going to sizzler for dinner


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## springhill (16 August 2007)

mb1 said:


> Im starting to swing back up -45% to -39%. Looks like im going to sizzler for dinner




I went to Sizzler last nite!!! What a tip! -39% will only get you the salad bar, wait til you're -34% if you want steak or chicken!


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## Buster (16 August 2007)

Hey YT,



YOUNG_TRADER said:


> But I'm not worried, as the fundamentals haven't changed for me
> 
> Fear is ruling the mkts at the moment




I'm in there with you buddy, couldn't believe the market down 5% at one point today.. I'm tipping there are a lot of 'stop losses' being triggered further fuelling the panicked market.  

I guess I've been a little lucky compared to some here, I've not sold a single share (Obviously, I'm a long term holder..) and my portfolio is only down around the 13% mark.  Streets ahead of where I started about 18-24 months ago, so I'm happy to let 'em ride.

I grabbed some absolute bargains today. (well, bargains to what I consider good value, and compared to todays closing price..).  Hope they are still bargains tomorrow..

Shake those sellers out..:

Regards,

Buster


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## MS+Tradesim (16 August 2007)

Haven't fared as bad as I thought. Down big time overall for the last 4wks but still ahead probably 80% for the calendar year so could be a lot worse.


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## Kipp (16 August 2007)

Em.. Id rather not calculated... but at least I wasnt in much at the start of the correction.  Only good thing though is that at least I am not pressured to sell- i.e I am not investing with borrowed funds, or with 100% of my life savings....
Wish I was more into philosophy.. Im sure this isn't so tough for Buddists!!!

Were is WayneL?  I bet he is laughing his a^*e off in profits.


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## Nicks (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




YT long time no see.

I've done similar, mostly on solid blue chips funnily enough so expecting a strong rebound as at these prices and dividend yield its not sustainable.


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## Kimosabi (16 August 2007)

The only thing I hold is ASX:GOLD and thats been going up...


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## krisbarry (16 August 2007)

springhill said:


> I went to Sizzler last nite!!! What a tip! -39% will only get you the salad bar, wait til you're -34% if you want steak or chicken!




lol, Wow I forgot about Sizzler, as it doesn't exsist in Adelaide anymore, it went bust many years ago.

Last I heard someone in Queensland got busted for pouring rat posion over the salad bar.  That might be something to think about while you are tossing your next Sizzler salad


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## vicb (16 August 2007)

I have had a goood run but a shocker in the last week or so.
Started selling up a fortnight ago but still was not out early enough to escape the fall.
Made the tough move and have now sold out of most positions.
Will be sitting on the sideline and watching for a move back in, I think it could get a lot uglier yet, we may see some recovery in the short term but it is looking like the bull is turning into a bear.
I can not see any reason to get back in yet. 
It may come to a "cash is king" situtaion.


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## krisbarry (16 August 2007)

Well I am down $4,000 in my super.  I missed the first part of the correction due to changing super funds (320 point fall) and entered the market @ 6107 - ASX 300.  I am very happy with my loss, consdering it could have been about double this.

Personal shares down about $1,500

So my loss is contained to about $5,500.

Have not sold my shares, nor converted super to cash, so in reals terms I am not sitting on any losses, except on paper.

The correction we had to have is now officially OVER, so happy buying and looking for a new high by years end


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## theasxgorilla (16 August 2007)

Stop_the_clock said:


> Have not sold my shares, nor converted super to cash, so in reals terms I am not sitting on any losses, except on paper.




Does this also imply that in real terms you could never actually afford a house?  Since all the gains you have/had were only on paper? :


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## justjohn (16 August 2007)

Down 12% over the last week or so not worried though as these things happen and its the risk you take ,bought some cheap ZFX PBL BNB today :


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## misterS (16 August 2007)

About 40% off the recent peak, but going back to the start, about 18mths ago, a smidge better than even.

Re the idea to sell to get loss and buy back - I read somewhere tax office frowns on this if done for the tax loss and can disallow it - cor, imagine that on top of everything else!

Of course, if you don't do it same day you risk bounce (ha! this week?) so better to see what other crunched shares you might prefer to ride back up (if the recovery ever comes) and sell one share and buy another on the same day for the truthful reason that you see it as a better investment decision - not to generate a tax loss.  

This smash has probably made you reflect on which kind of share will recover first/best anyway and would be a genuine reason to sell loss-makers and buy different ones.  i am thinking of doing a bit of that after reflecting on what qualities my portfolio currently has compared to what I now wish it had...

It may take a while before the singed fingers of the burnt reach for the buy button to drive up the price of some of my current more speculative non-revenue earners.


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## Captain_Chaza (16 August 2007)

theasxgorilla said:


> Does this also imply that in real terms you could never actually afford a house?  Since all the gains you have/had were only on paper? :




You are losing what ever % it was "OFF THE TOP"
At that stage it was "YOUR MONEY!"
As it is still your money NOW 

Money does not devalue
It simply changes hands!

Salute and Gods' speed


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## dhukka (16 August 2007)

Stop_the_clock said:


> Well I am down $4,000 in my super.  I missed the first part of the correction due to changing super funds (320 point fall) and entered the market @ 6107 - ASX 300.  I am very happy with my loss, consdering it could have been about double this.
> 
> Personal shares down about $1,500
> 
> ...




I must of missed the official announcement. Anyway what a relief, thank god it's over..... hey was that a pig flying backward past my window?


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## mime (16 August 2007)

ahspritemk said:


> I reckon im down about 60-80%. MTN and CUL made up pretty much most of my portfolio and they have taken a pounding up the rear sideways!
> I didnt have a huge portfolio, about $12k at the most as im only 19. This is a real pain in the **** as i work 25 hours a week for that money and im a full time uni student. I was hoping to use that money on a house deposit when im 23 or so. But I do see an upside, if people have less money and loans are not handed out so easily, then hopefully housing will become at least $12k cheaper and i end up even. Possible I can save that much again over the next 6 months and pick up some bargains.
> This is definately a good learning experience and been a rush, but it is not priceless lol.




Hey keep fighting. if you think about it the $12k is only very small amount of money in comparsion to what you will earn once you finish uni. I'm in a simliar boat to you but I was lucky. I sold out of MBL and bought CTX before the major drop so I'm down around 13%.


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## Boyou (16 August 2007)

Down about 18% since the correction started.Only thing that is lifting my average is my Gold shares.

But what's worse is benwex has pinched my avatar!(had it since it was a pup!)

Bwaaaaaaaaah!


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## tech/a (16 August 2007)

8.7%-10.5% from portfolio/s peaks.
Now watching with great interest---sleeping well.
Looking for opportunity--not far off in my view.

This will however be prolonged and doubt if we see new highs for a long long time.


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## bean (16 August 2007)

Being 100% in cash does that mean I am 30% plus in front???


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## REA (16 August 2007)

Interesting times, I have lost about 27% of my capital fortunately I had held most of my shares for 6 months or so, so I have not lost my original capital which by the way was only 20k.  I invest only small amounts so my capital was widely distributed.   Its obvious that  knowing when to sell is the go, I sat and watched the market flounder for weeks and did not pull the pin.  Need to be a good decision maker.   

As a baby boomer I have to feel for those people who borrowed to put money into their superannuation or who sold real estate to invest before the 30th June.  What bad advice.   Will the real estate go up?  I have been an agent for 23 years and previously the R/E market has boomed after a crash although conditions this time slightly different.  Keep in mind after the 1987crash the interest rates where a lot higher than now and it did not stop the Real Estate.  High inflation in the past has been very benificial to those with good jobs.


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## brilliantmichael (16 August 2007)

I'm a full time uni student too, and I put all my life savings into one stock. When I bought in 'bout a month ago, it was trading at what was then an already ridiculously low price to NTA ratio, AND it was and still is expected to make a cash profit. So I bought in. And guess what - the margin lenders covering their positions drive it down a further 50%! I could have bought TWICE as much for the same money. There's "foresight" for you - it doesn't exist. All you can do is buy in when you have a CONSIDERABLE margin of safety. Whether the stock falls to 0.001 or not can't have any real impact on your decision of when to buy, since this is just as unfeasable as predicting a market bottom for any INDIVIDUAL issue.

So despite taking a paper loss of 50%, all I can do now is ride it out and wait for it to bounce back. In the meantime, all I can do is save up the dough from part-time work and see whether the low prices persist long enough for me to jump back in...

I'm hoping to get a higher-paying part-time job soon - Wish I had access to a personal loan - not likely at the moment considering I'm still a casual worker.


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## Gar (16 August 2007)

some painfull losses in this thread , im down around 20% and the worst part is I was short on the aussie 200 this morning and was stop out by 2 pips during a early morning spike 

to those still in a long position or two (like me) I salute you and I drink to your health :alcohol:

*edit* but hey... this is all good experience and education so dont let it get to you too much my friends


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## nioka (16 August 2007)

brilliantmichael said:


> - Wish I had access to a personal loan - not likely at the moment considering I'm still a casual worker.



NEVER think about a personal loan as a source of finance for this type of thing. In fact dodge personal loans all together. Have patience, you will get plenty of chances.


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## numbercruncher (16 August 2007)

nioka said:


> NEVER think about a personal loan as a source of finance for this type of thing. In fact dodge personal loans all together. Have patience, you will get plenty of chances.




I second that as some of the best advice you'll get.


The greedy become the needy!


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## nizar (16 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




LOL but thats only about 1% ! :

Looks like we will have to put that Enzo on hold for a while ey champ 

Your gonna be one of the great ones YT.


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## mobcat (16 August 2007)

It all seems a similar story hey Guys I'm down $440k since an all time PF high on the 26th of July and i don't now if we have bottomed yet .....and i gutted my PF 2 weeks ago seeing a bit of a rough spot ahead and dropped it into what i thought at the time was a safer haven for that to go down 25% as well OUCH oh well we do our best don't we 

And to add to the Sizzler story i don't no if it,s urban legend or not but at the Sizzler in Geelong the story go,s the Chef lost the plot one night and waltzed naked into the restraint from the kitchen tossing alot more than the salad and then progressed to toss his load on a patron only to be beaten to a pulp by the patron the Sizzler not surprisingly closed for ever 2 days later and became a Mercedes showroom still pondering the moral to that story but you have to laugh ATM or it,s just to hard


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## nomore4s (16 August 2007)

Stop_the_clock said:


> The correction we had to have is now officially OVER, so happy buying and looking for a new high by years end





The only way I can figure the correction is officially over is if it's now being called a crash.

I've given about 7.5% of open profit back, only been trading since Nov and am now about 35% up. I'm completely out of the market now, only had a couple of trades open during the last two weeks anyway but go to Singapore early next month and will now sit on the sidelines till I get back. In the mean time I will be looking at different strategies and plans as I think its going to be a different type of market for the next few months at least (but probably alot longer), the bull could be over. I think alot of the mistakes I've made won't be so easily forgiven by the markets in the next few months.


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## Awesomandy (16 August 2007)

Now that I'm at home, I have access to my numbers... 25% down from 2 months ago. I've only started investing in September last year, but since I slowly dripped the money in, and that trades are all over the place, I don't even know how much I've made or lost in total over a 1 year period... well, perfect time to re-organise... starting with cash.


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## insider (16 August 2007)

Wait a sec! does this thread mean the correction is over?  I'm confused


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## Bearman52 (16 August 2007)

insider said:


> Wait a sec! does this thread mean the correction is over?  I'm confused




I certainley hope not Insider I day trade futures SPI S&P and RUSSEL its been loverly
BM


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## brilliantmichael (16 August 2007)

"best advice you will ever get"

Thanks for that. I always knew margin lending was a scam since it has the "margin call" feature that basically covers the bank's position at _your_ expense, even if the mere _price_ of an issue drops, even if the fundamentals don't change. 

But I thought that using personal loans (from the major banks that is - not from credit sharks!) was okay? It'd just be like buying some furniture, or a car, but instead of buying these 'doodads', you'd be buying an income-producing asset like shares (i.e. a just like gearing). But now that you mention it, it increases the risk IF for some reason your bargain either turns out to be a dud, or stops paying dividends, - plus the bother of the interest repayments, which would eat quite substantially into any gains you make (most personal loans are in excess of 10%) - And where would you stop? Money can be an addiction too (access to credit that is). Prudence probably is better I suppose (but would love to snap up some of those bargains that have surfaced recently - oh man!  )

I guess even if I've saved up a substantial amount before the market has started to climb again [it seems aeons away doesn't it? ], the opportunities will have changed, and we'd have to go bargain-hunting again. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But don't venture what you can't afford to lose.


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## numbercruncher (17 August 2007)

I hear you - and sure your better off borrowing money to invest rather than buy TVs and cars etc.

But beleive me its hurts hard when you not only lose your own money but borrowed money you have to repay as well.

How would you be feeling now if you had not only lost the cash you have so far this week but say had borrowed 50k and taken a hit on that to ?

I think this advice is particularly important to you considering your personal situation, still being a student, working part time etc ...

When bad things happen they have an awful habit of snowballing.

You dont need the risk or the worry, in my humble opinion


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## brilliantmichael (17 August 2007)

In an ideal world, what they should do in times like this is to shut down the stock exchange! Obviously this cannot be done in the real world, but I think perhaps we could kinda imagine it ourselves! As long as your positions are sound, and you are materially comfortable (i.e. you have not placed any of your subsistence money into the market - which you never should - and which you implicitly but not obviously do when you margin borrow), and you are sitting on what is only a paper loss, it might be good to take a hike, take a holiday (not too an expensive a holiday though!  - actually, forget about the holiday!!), and imagine the market has closed for the issues on which you sit on a paper loss. That's all you can do. If you have some cash on hand, then scout around, but for the rest of us - let us rediscover life away from the market! (Birds start chirping, the fields become bright, 'back to nature' rararara  )


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## barnz2k (17 August 2007)

I just logged in to get an exact number.. im up 1% overall from entry...
thats down over 20% from recent highs..
back to square one.. 

If it wasnt for a few solid troopers like BHP and NAB id be up far far worse.


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## lbradman (17 August 2007)

Hullo I lost $6500 in my first 3 weeks of trading all during the start of this correction. That represents 12% of my total life savings of $50K. It makes it hurt more since that is from my LIFE SAVINGS so I would prolly jump off a building had it been any worse. I'm refraining from throwing all my eggs into the market now. Just taking it slow put $50K into riskless safe haven of savings acct earning paltry 5% return while whatever $$$ I make from my job going into my trading account. I'm sure with leverage and diligent money management I can get a big enough portfolio to trade from. I'm not saving for a house quite happy to rent for a long time while I work,save,trade and hopefully reach financial independence through trading fulltime.


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## lbradman (17 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I should keep things in perspective guys,
> 
> At the start of the year my portfolio was worth $500k maybe, 4 weeks ago it was $2m, today probably $1.35m so for the year I'm still wayyyy up,
> 
> ...





Still Holy moly $500K! Are you a fund manager or institutional trader by any chance to have access to such a large capital?


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## nomore4s (17 August 2007)

lbradman said:


> Still Holy moly $500K! Are you a fund manager or institutional trader by any chance to have access to such a large capital?




lol, no it's all his

YT is abit of a legend in these parts, lol


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## DionM (17 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> I hear you - and sure your better off borrowing money to invest rather than buy TVs and cars etc.
> 
> But beleive me its hurts hard when you not only lose your own money but borrowed money you have to repay as well.
> 
> How would you be feeling now if you had not only lost the cash you have so far this week but say had borrowed 50k and taken a hit on that to ?




Two sides to every coin.  Of my loan I took last week, some has disappeared immediately (d'oh!) but I've used some of the cash to buy shares that are currently depressed for no reason (e.g. Zinifex and Neptune Marine).  I've also learnt to be more cautious.  My plan was to increase my speculative stocks to ~40% of my holdings (currently ~10%) ... now I know better.  Spec stocks stay at 10%, the rest is bluechips / stocks that pay dividends / companies that are actually producing something!


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## Smurf1976 (17 August 2007)

tech/a said:


> 8.7%-10.5% from portfolio/s peaks.
> Now watching with great interest---sleeping well.
> Looking for opportunity--not far off in my view.
> 
> This will however be prolonged and doubt if we see new highs for a long long time.



Much the same here though I'm expecting individual stocks and some entire sectors to see new highs in the not too distant future.


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## Smurf1976 (17 August 2007)

lbradman said:


> I'm sure with *leverage* and diligent money management I can get a big enough portfolio to trade from. I'm not saving for a house quite happy to rent for a long time while I work,save,trade and hopefully reach financial independence through trading fulltime.



Avoid leverage unless you're damn sure what you're doing in my opinion. 

Those using their own money aren't nearly so worried about corrections or even outright crashes and have virtually zero chance of going completely broke. Even the big players and their fund blow ups recently all comes back to excessive leverage.


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## ta2693 (17 August 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Avoid leverage unless you're damn sure what you're doing in my opinion.
> 
> Those using their own money aren't nearly so worried about corrections or even outright crashes and have virtually zero chance of going completely broke. Even the big players and their fund blow ups recently all comes back to excessive leverage.




I can not agree with you more. Leveraged position have to managed with strict stop loss.


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## Captain G (17 August 2007)

Hi smurf, which sectors do you expect to reach new high in the future ??


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## Freddy I (17 August 2007)

I'm with you Smurf. 

I think that ppl will be doing some solid research over the weekend and that there will be some significant buying of cheap / quality stocks early next week.

I just dont see how blue chip companies could fall to levels where the div yield is > the cost of borrowing (via margin loan)....

eg ZFX div yield of >10


Then again Ive lost 15% in 3 weeks so who'd listen to me !


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## ta2693 (17 August 2007)

DionM said:


> Two sides to every coin.  Of my loan I took last week, some has disappeared immediately (d'oh!) but I've used some of the cash to buy shares that are currently depressed for no reason (e.g. Zinifex and Neptune Marine).  I've also learnt to be more cautious.  My plan was to increase my speculative stocks to ~40% of my holdings (currently ~10%) ... now I know better.  Spec stocks stay at 10%, the rest is bluechips / stocks that pay dividends / companies that are actually producing something!




Depressed for no reason or for the reason you do not know? If the first applies, you win, but the chance is not high. If second applies, you lose, I think more than likely, the second applies. I do not think I am a smart person with smart money.


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## numbercruncher (17 August 2007)

So did you all manage to sell today on the bounce so youll avoid the next leg down ?


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## nioka (17 August 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Those using their own money aren't nearly so worried about corrections or even outright crashes and have virtually zero chance of going completely broke. Even the big players and their fund blow ups recently all comes back to excessive leverage.




Those using their own money aren't forced to sell at the extra low prices to meet margin calls either and they are still holding when things turn around. (as they certainly will.)


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## nioka (17 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> So did you all manage to sell today on the bounce so youll avoid the next leg down ?)




No but I managed to buy on the trough and will cash in on the rebound.It's a buyers market, why not buy.


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## brilliantmichael (17 August 2007)

Hmm things don't look as bad as they seemed. I know I was supposed to take a break from the market, but alas, I sucumbed to the temptation and looked... I'm up 15% from the 50% low on Wednesday-Thursday. I guess all the auto-sells and calls have mostly run their course (for now perhaps). It was a fairly flat day on Thursday. So still down by about 35% from when I bought in (which itself was already pretty low). If I'd had some cash to spare I'd have bought in some more yesterday, but I only had one-week's wages to put in! : Oh well.

There's a light at the end of the tunnel, or a silver lining or whatever - for those of us in value at least. As far as I am concerned, I am the owner of that fat pile of cash on my company's balance sheet, and I ain't sell'in until I get for it what it's worth!

To you lucky ones who are loaded... Good hunting!


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## bean (18 August 2007)

YOUNG_TRADER said:


> I have given back over $500k over 4 weeks
> 
> I'm going back on holiday!




Hi, I think you posts are great...sounds funny what I am about to say because markets sre about to rise??? 
But why don't you sell when markets are ready to fall or are falling.
Tax yes but if you believe the fundamentals are right but look at the markets (E wave, Technical analysis, Bean the great) why not sell and but back in.
for example this is not the bottom but selling (last week) and buying on monday (this monday) you would still have made a profit.
Me I aim for 100% per year take profits pay tax (I pay tax once a year) twice a year and well enjoy life.  I would rather pay  than drop momey.  
I am well at the moment going to buy a camper tour Aussie for 12 months then take leave without pay and then retire.  
Yes when the fundamentals are right I am 100% in stock but when the market ism't I am out.
remember 
The market doesn't care who you are 
I am still going to buy the same stocks

ps if you have a spare 500k can I have it


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## DionM (18 August 2007)

ta2693 said:


> Depressed for no reason or for the reason you do not know? If the first applies, you win, but the chance is not high. If second applies, you lose, I think more than likely, the second applies. I do not think I am a smart person with smart money.




Nothing has changed in those particular company fundamentals AFAIK.  If I were dabbling with banks I'd be more cautious, but I'm not (only got one of them, and bought it a long time ago).


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## Mazrox (18 August 2007)

Well, all

At the end of the week (which is when I regularly review my position) I am down 25% (50k) from where I was a couple of weeks ago, but still ahead on my starting figure in Oct last year by 15%.

As its my Super and I can't touch it for years, I'm not too concerned at this stage. I buy on fundamentals and hold long term. 

Agree with Nioka that using my own money and not having a leveraged position makes things a lot less stressful than I imagine they would have been, for me at least. I hate owing money!

Fortunately I don't have any of my own cash (as opposed to Super) in the market at the moment.

I did get sick of watching the carnage, though, and just didn't look at the market at all for a couple of days. Not good for my mental state! 

Maz


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## brilliantmichael (20 August 2007)

I don't believe it. Now I've seen severything. After being down 50% at one point, the market has surged and am now back in the black thanks to the additional capital put in during the ridiculous rout last week. (I expect the climb to continue) Thank you Ben Graham for teaching us the virtue of patience and resilience in the face of fear.


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## YELNATS (20 August 2007)

Over the past 4 weeks, ie. from Fri July 20 to Fri Aug 17, my SMSF is down 15.29%. 

I'm now -3.66% since Jan 1, 2007, as of July 20 I was +16.74%.

From July 20 - Aug 17 the All Ords is down 786.4 points, or 12.18%. July 20 seems to be the highest closing day for the All Ords.

I'm a little surprised I've done a bit worse than the All Ords in the past 4 weeks, something I need to investigate.

Today's 200 point bounce will help, only 586 points still to go to get back to July 20. regards YN.


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## Nicks (21 August 2007)

I recouped over 6% yesterday for my biggest one day gain ever, even bigger than my biggest one day loss ever, also in recent days. What a YoYo. Fortunately I didnt get margin calls like some. It is those I feel sorry for as they were forced to sell out when the market was down and missed out on the massive rebound yesterday.

2 more days like yesterday and im back where I was 4 weeks ago. Unfortunately I think it will take a month or two. My only regret is no spare funds to buy up on Friday.

Not suprised we are down today as Aussies seem to be a little over cautious. I little gain on the DOW is not enough. 

The thing is, too many little gains on the DOW and none on the All Ords will just mean we are excessively under valued and there should eb a strong rebound all of a sudden.


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## nioka (21 August 2007)

I've worked out some interesting figures. My percentage gain in montery terms is still relatively unchanged for the last month but still well in the green for the year.
BUT the number of shares I hold has increased quite considerably. This has been done without any additional capital outlay and I don,t use any borrowing. It has been a good time to be a conservative bull.


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## barnz2k (22 February 2008)

bump!  Maybe worth starting a new poll to see where ppl are at now, 6months on. I have only gone down further.

I've now hit -10%, at greater volume than peak of around 27% UP last year

I thought would have increased at least a little by now.


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