# Blockchains, cryptocurrencies and the future...



## DB008

Bitcoin is going bananas

To name a few - Ethereum, Neo (Ant Shares), OmiseGO (OMG), TenX have also been rising in the past few weeks (some over 500%).

There are thousands of Alt Coins - coins which aren't bitcoin, but basically leach off the Bitcoin Blockchain in their own way.

What do l like about the cryptocurrency markets - it's open 24/7 (not like the ASX), everything is pretty much transparent, hard to manipulate and uses mathematics and cryptography.

Some coins have been going crazy - 50% rise (and fall) within 24 hours.

Talk that cryptocurrency's will overtake the banks and Ethereum is one which is leading the pack.

Is Bitcoin and Alt-Coins - the tulip bulb mania bubble?


*Ethereum*

*A Look At The Potential Blockchain Holds For The Mortgage Industry*
​Immutability, decentralization, and transparency are some of the characteristics which have attracted entities across industries to explore the potential of blockchain technology. Although most projects initiated by enterprises are in the trial phase, recent developments show that the gap between testing and real-world application of blockchain is closing.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/a-loo...hain-holds-for-the-mortgage-industry-cm832935​


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## DB008

Bitcoin ATM's starting to pop up

Interesting...

​


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Bitcoin is going bananas
> 
> To name a few - Ethereum, Neo (Ant Shares), OmiseGO (OMG), TenX have also been rising in the past few weeks (some over 500%).
> 
> There are thousands of Alt Coins - coins which aren't bitcoin, but basically leach off the Bitcoin Blockchain in their own way.
> 
> What do l like about the cryptocurrency markets - it's open 24/7 (not like the ASX), everything is pretty much transparent, hard to manipulate and uses mathematics and cryptography.
> 
> Some coins have been going crazy - 50% rise (and fall) within 24 hours.
> 
> Talk that cryptocurrency's will overtake the banks and Ethereum is one which is leading the pack.
> 
> Is Bitcoin and Alt-Coins - the tulip bulb mania bubble?
> 
> 
> *Ethereum*
> 
> *A Look At The Potential Blockchain Holds For The Mortgage Industry*
> ​Immutability, decentralization, and transparency are some of the characteristics which have attracted entities across industries to explore the potential of blockchain technology. Although most projects initiated by enterprises are in the trial phase, recent developments show that the gap between testing and real-world application of blockchain is closing.
> 
> http://www.nasdaq.com/article/a-loo...hain-holds-for-the-mortgage-industry-cm832935​




Cryptos are going nuts the volatility is out of control. Every man and his dog is loving it.
From unemployed people living with their parents to engineers. So many people I know are in these bloody alt coins.

The real problem I have is that no one I know who has it can even explain how it works. Is it pure speculation?

The second problem is what do you actually own. It is not a yield producing asset. If I own a company I have a right to the cash flows. I have legal protections and regulation to protect me to an extent.
 What right do I have in bitcoin or cyrpto's. The right to transfer, is it really worth that much? 

So many  risks.

 Who actually decides the important factors like the amount of currency. Out of the ones I know only a few are centrally controlled by a company. What is to stop people from deciding to print more, just like the recent bitcoin fork. What if I had bitcoin and didn't want that. Who is actually in control?
Again no one can even explain to me who made that decision. The community. Who the FU@! is that.

There is also a massive risk that major governments step in or the price just collapses.

I don't doubt the technology but I don't understand where the fundamental value is coming from to set up a blockchain, surely it is not that valuable.

How hard is it ?

I don't think it is the criminals and other alternatives who are pushing the price.

I think when it goes there is going to be alot of crybabies.

This reflect my view in other posts. Why alot of people don't trade small cap stocks.Why would you with all of these crazy things around.Much more bang for your buck until it all goes bang.

Currency is not meant to change by 50% a month. It is meant to be stable and controlled.  

Imagine going to the shop and the price of bread changing by 50%

This is not currency.
my twocents


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## OmegaTrader

An irony of sorts? 
Visiting aussiestocks, in the ad feed...
	

		
			
		

		
	



lol ahhaah


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## DB008

Ripple has jumped 40% in the past week. Korean pump and dump?
Monero has also jumped some ~70% in the last 2 weeks.

24 hour market, never closes, open and transparent. Craps all over the current corrupt financial system.


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Ripple has jumped 40% in the past week. Korean pump and dump?
> Monero has also jumped some ~70% in the last 2 weeks.
> 
> 24 hour market, never closes, open and transparent. Craps all over the current corrupt financial system.



Keep believing that until the bubble bursts.
Then wait for the blame game to start...


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## Junior

Many participants don't know the first thing about investing.  I have a mate who was talking about mortgaging his home to get more funds in.  It's like gambling, if you have a win early on you get a false sense of confidence.  And almost everyone has had a huge win early on with Cryptos.

I have grave concern for what will happen when this bubble truly bursts.

I'm not criticising the technology at all, just the price volatility and the firm belief by many that the value of a coin will continue to grow.  No asset, let alone a currency can appreciate 1000% in a year and then stabilise without a significant retrace.

The supply/demand fundamentals and the number of different coins, constantly changing technology etc. is impossible for anyone to wrap their minds around, and therefore to ascertain the true value of a coin.


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## OmegaTrader

Junior said:


> Many participants don't know the first thing about investing.  I have a mate who was talking about mortgaging his home to get more funds in.  It's like gambling, if you have a win early on you get a false sense of confidence.  And almost everyone has had a huge win early on with Cryptos.
> 
> I have grave concern for what will happen when this bubble truly bursts.
> 
> I'm not criticising the technology at all, just the price volatility and the firm belief by many that the value of a coin will continue to grow.  No asset, let alone a currency can appreciate 1000% in a year and then stabilise without a significant retrace.
> 
> The supply/demand fundamentals and the number of different coins, constantly changing technology etc. is impossible for anyone to wrap their minds around, and therefore to ascertain the true value of a coin.



All I want to know is where is the value that say it is now worth $4000 instead of $2000.

No one can even explain to me how they work.

Sure there is some value, in a so called anonymous transactions. But that much value?? How?

People are buying into the dream and alot of other people/ businesses are leveraging off that dream by facilitating the bubble to continue and taking their cut in the process.

The dream of somehow being alternative and rebelling or outsmarting everyone and becoming rich.

You are no longer rebelling if every-man and his dog has it.

In a way I feel sad that people can be so reckless. But that is what greed does to them.

Then they will ask for help from the real system. Government intervention and even welfare.


Then ABC will probably do a four corners and people will cry sympathy and say I got tricked.

Just like when I got tricked when I over geared myself to speculate on property.

It is just an evil system and so corrupt.. Poor me. 

digital tulips

caveat emptor


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## DB008

Another one to have a look at is IOTA.

Very interesting.
*
IOTA* is a revolutionary new transactional settlement and data transfer layer for the Internet of Things. It's based on a new distributed ledger, the Tangle (the network), which overcomes the inefficiencies of current Blockchain designs and introduces a new way of reaching consensus in a decentralized peer-to-peer system.

https://iota.org/​


Some more info here
https://iotasupport.com/whatisiota.shtml​1 IOTA is on the market for between $1.20 - $1.40....


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## DB008

OmegaTrader said:


> digital tulips




Maybe, who knows. Always have your fingers on the pulse and ready to sell....

Bitcoin

Limited to 21 million Bitcoins ever mined/created. We will be using Satoshi's (A Satoshi is the smallest fraction of a Bitcoin that can currently be sent: 0.00000001 BTC, that is, a hundredth of a millionth BTC. In the future, however, the protocol may be updated to allow further subdivisions, should they be needed)


Secure (cryptographic algorithms) and open/public ledger (transparency). Hard to manipulate (unlike stock market). Open 24/7


Technology advances - fiat is expensive. I can send Ethereum around the world in minutes and for cents. Banks take days and are expensive.


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Maybe, who knows. Always have your fingers on the pulse and ready to sell....
> 
> Bitcoin
> 
> Limited to 21 million Bitcoins ever mined/created. We will be using Satoshi's (A Satoshi is the smallest fraction of a Bitcoin that can currently be sent: 0.00000001 BTC, that is, a hundredth of a millionth BTC. In the future, however, the protocol may be updated to allow further subdivisions, should they be needed)
> 
> 
> Secure (cryptographic algorithms) and open/public ledger (transparency). Hard to manipulate (unlike stock market). Open 24/7
> 
> 
> Technology advances - fiat is expensive. I can send Ethereum around the world in minutes and for cents. Banks take days and are expensive.



1) Is not limited to 21 million, it just got forked or printed, using another name, there are multiple versions of it now.
 (*In the future, however, the protocol may be updated to allow further subdivisions, should they be needed)
*
2)  who decided to fork it, just print more. Is that not manipulation. No one can explain to me who or what makes the decisions.
3) No regulatory oversight or private property protection. 
4) Has large spreads and no central exchange to give a clear price, OTC market raises alot of conflict of interests. Even price discovery is complicated
5) where is the value in the coin itself? (not the technology)
6) No input or votes that investors can make in to decisions regarding the currency
7)Completely unstable as a currency, the reserve bank looks at inflation to limit printing. Currency should not be moving 20% a month.
8) In the future couldn't a company just create its own block-chain to short circuit the need for a coin
9) Risk of regulator jumping in to limit the speculation


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## DB008

Yes, "Bitcoin" is limited to 21million. Please read the whitepaper. 

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is adjusted every 2016 blocks to aim for a constant two week adjustment period (equivalent to 6 per hour.) The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every 210,000 blocks, or approximately four years. The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence is not expected to exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are that it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number. Satoshi has never really justified or explained many of these constants.

When it forked, Bitcoin Cash was created. Bitcoin Cash is not Bitcoin, it is a variance of it, ie - Fork.


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Yes, "Bitcoin" is limited to 21million. Please read the whitepaper.
> 
> https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
> 
> Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is adjusted every 2016 blocks to aim for a constant two week adjustment period (equivalent to 6 per hour.) The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every 210,000 blocks, or approximately four years. The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence is not expected to exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are that it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number. Satoshi has never really justified or explained many of these constants.
> 
> When it forked, Bitcoin Cash was created. Bitcoin Cash is not Bitcoin, it is a variance of it, ie - Fork.





DB008 said:


> Yes, "Bitcoin" is limited to 21million. Please read the whitepaper.
> 
> https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
> 
> Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is adjusted every 2016 blocks to aim for a constant two week adjustment period (equivalent to 6 per hour.) The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every 210,000 blocks, or approximately four years. The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence is not expected to exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are that it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number. Satoshi has never really justified or explained many of these constants.
> 
> When it forked, Bitcoin Cash was created. Bitcoin Cash is not Bitcoin, it is a variance of it, ie - Fork.




Who is making the decisions that is the main point.

Isn't creating another bitcoin diluting the value by acting as a substitute. Even if it is not called bitcoin it is still a bitcoin by any other name. It does practically the same thing with a tweak.

It is just supplying the demand for the coin and profits for the miners because once it is mined there is no money in it for miners. Essentially diluting the first lot of bitcoins.

Again who is making the decisions and what is stopping them from printing more money???

These thing don't even makes sense no one even knows what they are buying.

People are still pushing the price up because it sound all mysterious and technologically advanced even when more are being created and substitute alt coins are coming online.

wtf that doesn't even make sense. The demand is not based on fundamentals.

Time will tell, I just hope you get out before the bubble pops.


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## DB008

OmegaTrader said:


> Isn't creating another bitcoin diluting the value by acting as a substitute.




No



OmegaTrader said:


> Even if it is not called bitcoin it is still a bitcoin by any other name. It does practically the same thing with a tweak.




No


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> No
> 
> 
> 
> No





.

Does any of this make any logical sense???


NO

Once you drink the Kool-Aid.....

Do you ever go back?

NO

Should I waste my time trying to argue?

NO



This explains alot 




Again, time will tell


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## DB008

Will there be dips and massive movements?
Yes, of course there will be.
The crashes/dips will almost certainly be faster and bigger than the current share market crashes, but so will be the rebounds.

IMO - Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency's) are are just the next step in the evolution of finance.



​
https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/902629010324250633​


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Will there be dips and massive movements?
> Yes, of course there will be.
> The crashes/dips will almost certainly be faster and bigger than the current share market crashes, but so will be the rebounds.
> 
> IMO - Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency's) are are just the next step in the evolution of finance.
> 
> 
> View attachment 72459
> ​
> https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/902629010324250633​



lol

Just more propaganda spruiking bitcoin.


Does coles accept bitcoin?
Does nab accept bitcoin?
Can employer pay me in bitcoin?
monetary policy?
regulation?
criminal activity?
competitors?
counterpart risk?
private property ownership?
market manipulation?
Lack of input in decision making?
OTC price discovery?



third world people mine bitcoin,ahh that doesn't make it  a currency. just means that wages are super low in that country.

Risk is off the chart, it's just been going straight up that is all.

I will thoroughly enjoy when the crypto bubble crashes. Then I can say told you so.

Unfortunately however immature that sounds.

I hope people don't chicken out when that happens and face the music.

I will remember you DB008
ahaha  

ahahah


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Will there be dips and massive movements?
> Yes, of course there will be.
> The crashes/dips will almost certainly be faster and bigger than the current share market crashes, but so will be the rebounds.
> 
> IMO - Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency's) are are just the next step in the evolution of finance.
> 
> 
> View attachment 72459
> ​
> https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/902629010324250633​




buy me now ad on aussie.






welcome to the future.

where we make the same mistake that we did in the 1600's

But this time is different we have fancy imaginary coins

they will never crash

noo


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## DB008

Good on ya mate. Keep the negativity coming...


*Cash is useless in Venezuela thanks to hyperinflation — so people are turning to bitcoin*​As Venezuela suffers its worst meltdown in history, with inflation skyrocketing and basic necessities running in short supply, many have taken to bitcoin mining in a bid to survive, according to a report in the current issue of the Atlantic.

The reason? Electricity is now cheaper and more affordable in the crisis-hit country than most basic goods. That's because under President Nicolás Maduro, electric power is heavily subsidized to the point that it's essentially free, the Atlantic said.

Bitcoin mining works like this: Miners use computer hardware to perform complex computations that ultimately create each new link in the bitcoin blockchain — the massive, decentralized ledger technology that underpins the cryptocurrency. In return, they are rewarded with bitcoin. One of the key requirements to mine bitcoin is to have a large supply of power.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/bit...r-in-venezuela-because-of-hyperinflation.html​


Bitcoin ATMS - worldwide
https://coinatmradar.com/


*Ukraine to Install 150 Bitcoin ATMs in 2017, 30 by the End of August*​
Ukraine is expected to install 150 bitcoin ATMs in the country by the end of the year, with 30 expected to be in place by the end of August.

According to Mike Chobanyan, the co-founder of NGO Bitcoin Foundation Ukraine and the head of KUNA Bitcoin Agency, a firm that supports bitcoin users in Ukraine, a group of entrepreneurs have ordered the 150 bitcoin ATMs into the country; however, their identity remains a secret.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ukraine-to-install-150-bitcoin-atms-in-2017-30-by-the-end-of-august/​

*Successful blockchain trial for bank guarantees*​10 July, 2017
ANZ and Westpac have teamed with IBM and shopping centre operator Scentre Group and have now successfully digitised the bank guarantee process used for commercial property leasing.

The trial used Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) to eliminate the need for current paper-based bank guarantee documents, resulting in a single source of information with reduced potential for fraud and increased efficiency.

The partners involved in the trial have today released a whitepaper detailing how the solution worked and how it could be used in other situations that rely on bank guarantees.

In addition to eliminating the need for physical document management, the trial also addressed other inefficiencies in the current bank guarantee process, including the challenges in tracking and reporting of a guarantee’s status through multiple changes.

https://www.westpac.com.au/about-westpac/media/media-releases/2017/10-july-1/​


China just stopped ICO's because they were running away and the scam artists were everywhere. So, they will be regulating them. I'm sure that the USA isn't far off either.

What else would you like the talk about?
Will a lot of these new cryptos crash and burn, for sure. I think only a handful will survive.


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## Smurf1976

OmegaTrader said:


> third world people mine bitcoin,ahh that doesn't make it  a currency. just means that wages are super low in that country.



Cheap computers and cheap electricity to run them with is what makes it profitable in one place versus another.

As a business it has more in common with smelting metal, particularly aluminium or magnesium, than with any other conventional business. Cheap electricity is the key - hence why smelters are built where power is cheap not necessarily where the ore is mined (pure coincidence if both the ore and cheap power happen to be available in the same place). Labour cost is a far lesser consideration and it's the same with Bitcoin.


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## DB008

Baton Rouge - Louisiana

​
Microsoft Payments

​You can purchase Bitcoins at Swiss train stations
​


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## Garpal Gumnut

Can I buy Tulips via the same mechanism?

gg


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## Gringotts Bank

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Can I buy Tulips via the same mechanism?
> 
> gg




The cryptocurrency boom is powered by organized crime, which is why it's been so enormous.  Unlikely to bust until governments can legislate away it's potential for laundering.


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## Garpal Gumnut

Gringotts Bank said:


> The cryptocurrency boom is powered by organized crime, which is why it's been so enormous.  Unlikely to bust until governments can legislate away it's potential for laundering.




As with tulips. 

gg


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## DB008

Yep, organized crime. I guess when you don't understand how the technology works, you just make stuff up. Anyways, back in developments on this technology.



*A Tokyo-listed company is spending over $300 million to get into bitcoin mining*
​GMO Internet Group, based in Tokyo, normally does incredibly boring things like registering domain names and hosting web services. But it, too, has caught the bitcoin fever, one that some people think has created a bubble in valuations.

GMO announced today that it plans to spend more than $320 million to start mining bitcoin in the first half of next year. Some $10 million is available for bitcoin miners to accumulate each day, at the current bitcoin price of around $4,600. The firm says cryptocurrencies like bitcoin will evolve into “universal currencies” that will create a global “borderless economic zone.”

GMO plans to develop its own mining chips, claiming they will operate at an unprecedented degree of efficiency. If GMO successfully introduces the chips, it would trigger an arms race within the bitcoin mining industry. The proposed chips will use 7 nanometer nodes, which would be four times more energy efficient than the current industry standard 16 nm nodes. Because bitcoin mining is a competition, once 7 nm nodes are in use, all other miners will have to upgrade to stay in the game. “It’s clearly the next generation of miners,” said Diego Guiterrez, chief executive of RSK Labs, which develops software for miners.

GMO’s business model for its mining unit resembles that of established players in the field, such as China’s Bitmain. GMO plans to operate its own mines, rent them to others, and develop its own chips that it will sell packaged as mining rigs. It plans to locate its mine in northern Europe, presumably some place with cheap, excess electric power. It says it will invest more than 10% of its non-current assets, which stand at $320 million. Bitmain had no comment.


https://qz.com/1071926/japans-gmo-internet-group-plans-a-300-million-investment-in-bitcoin-mining/​


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## OmegaTrader

Smurf1976 said:


> Cheap computers and cheap electricity to run them with is what makes it profitable in one place versus another.
> 
> As a business it has more in common with smelting metal, particularly aluminium or magnesium, than with any other conventional business. Cheap electricity is the key - hence why smelters are built where power is cheap not necessarily where the ore is mined (pure coincidence if both the ore and cheap power happen to be available in the same place). Labour cost is a far lesser consideration and it's the same with Bitcoin.




People and organisation are only mining them because the price is so high.

It does mean it will be a currency of 'the future'.

This video is funny because it shows just how ridiculous it has become when someone showed me this video.

Do you accept bitcoin?


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## Wysiwyg

ASX boss was talking about "block chain" or "distributed ledger" type transactions on the ASX. Basically shortening the T2 waiting period for trade transactions to clear. December this year they plan to have made a decision on the tech. being viable. From about half way mark.


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## OmegaTrader

Wysiwyg said:


> ASX boss was talking about "block chain" or "distributed ledger" type transactions on the ASX. Basically shortening the T2 waiting period for trade transactions to clear. December this year they plan to have made a decision on the tech. being viable. From about half way mark.




As good and interesting as it is.

This is part of the problem. People see this and justify buying bitcoin.
The quote from steve jobs applies here 
"Good artists copy great artists steal"

ASX might be using a similar technology or aspects  to bitcoin. But bitcoin will not benefit from it and neither will anyone holding bitcoin. Infact if most things are updated to use the technology or benefit from it then bitcoin and alt coins will lose there supposed speed edge. Then the only edge would be the privacy/ encrypted part.

Which average Joe does not need. Only 'libertarians' or crooks.


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Yep, organized crime. I guess when you don't understand how the technology works, you just make stuff up. Anyways, back in developments on this technology.
> 
> 
> 
> *A Tokyo-listed company is spending over $300 million to get into bitcoin mining*
> ​GMO Internet Group, based in Tokyo, normally does incredibly boring things like registering domain names and hosting web services. But it, too, has caught the bitcoin fever, one that some people think has created a bubble in valuations.
> 
> GMO announced today that it plans to spend more than $320 million to start mining bitcoin in the first half of next year. Some $10 million is available for bitcoin miners to accumulate each day, at the current bitcoin price of around $4,600. The firm says cryptocurrencies like bitcoin will evolve into “universal currencies” that will create a global “borderless economic zone.”
> 
> GMO plans to develop its own mining chips, claiming they will operate at an unprecedented degree of efficiency. If GMO successfully introduces the chips, it would trigger an arms race within the bitcoin mining industry. The proposed chips will use 7 nanometer nodes, which would be four times more energy efficient than the current industry standard 16 nm nodes. Because bitcoin mining is a competition, once 7 nm nodes are in use, all other miners will have to upgrade to stay in the game. “It’s clearly the next generation of miners,” said Diego Guiterrez, chief executive of RSK Labs, which develops software for miners.
> 
> GMO’s business model for its mining unit resembles that of established players in the field, such as China’s Bitmain. GMO plans to operate its own mines, rent them to others, and develop its own chips that it will sell packaged as mining rigs. It plans to locate its mine in northern Europe, presumably some place with cheap, excess electric power. It says it will invest more than 10% of its non-current assets, which stand at $320 million. Bitmain had no comment.
> 
> 
> https://qz.com/1071926/japans-gmo-internet-group-plans-a-300-million-investment-in-bitcoin-mining/​




https://au.investing.com/analysis/b...in-things-you-dont-fully-understand-200196428

*What about (bitcoin)?* Crypto currencies led by bitcoin are generating much interest. They and the block chain technology underpinning them seem to hold much promise but there is reason to be cautious. Lots of them are popping up, the ascent of bitcoin’s share price looks very bubbly (although its potential ramifications if it bursts are nowhere near as significant as the other bubbles shown on the chart) and regulators are starting to take a closer look. I also still struggle to fully understand how it works and one big lesson from the GFC is that if you don’t fully understand something you shouldn’t invest (who really understood CDOs? – obviously not many!)




Chart


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## satanoperca

Bitcoin is just like the internet 20 years ago, people don't understand it, so the rubbish it.

This technology is here and it will not be going away. It may go up, it may go down, it will with a 100% certainty transform.

Cryptocurrency is the future.


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## DB008

I like this chart better.

​

Is Bitcoin and Ether overpriced, possibly. Doesn't mean it is going away, even with a major crash.

Like l said previously, this is the next step in financial evolution.


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## DB008

Hmm....


​


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## DB008

*John McAfee claims bitcoin is headed to $500K*


https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/09/13/john-mcafee-claims-bitcoin-is-headed-to-500k.html​


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## SirRumpole

May or may not be relevant here but,

 P
*Kaspersky internet security software banned on US government computers over Russia links*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-...rity-software-banned-by-us-government/8943782


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> *John McAfee claims bitcoin is headed to $500K*
> 
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/09/13/john-mcafee-claims-bitcoin-is-headed-to-500k.html​
















????


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## skyQuake

*CHINA IS SAID TO CALL FOR BITCOIN EXCHANGE HALT BY MONTH-END

well thats interesting considering where the volume is


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## DB008

https://twitter.com/CNBCFastMoney/status/908454383968559107


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## DB008

There were double digit falls across the board yesterday, and double digit gains today.

If a few more BTC exchanges in China strategically announce closures, together, there could be another round of big falls - some fantastic buying opportunities. My opinion only.


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## DB008

Bitcoin back up to 5k AUD.
1k jump in the last 7 days.

China ban still ongoing issues. Looks like they want to regulate the Bitcoin market.

Ethereum is also getting ready for their Metropolis update. Ethereum is going after VISA. Currently they are limited to 7 transactions per seconds, trying to get to 1 million per second.

Interesting times we live in......


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## OmegaTrader

DB008 said:


> Bitcoin back up to 5k AUD.
> 1k jump in the last 7 days.
> 
> China ban still ongoing issues. Looks like they want to regulate the Bitcoin market.
> 
> Ethereum is also getting ready for their Metropolis update. Ethereum is going after VISA. Currently they are limited to 7 transactions per seconds, trying to get to 1 million per second.
> 
> 
> Interesting times we live in......





https://www.coindesk.com/price/ 

The founder of the world's largest hedge fund he believes that there's a bubble in the bitcoin market.

Ray Dalio is the founder of Bridgewater Associates, which according to recent rankings is the biggest hedge fund by total assets under management. Per its website, Bridgewater manages around $160 billion in assets.

Dalio, who appeared on CNBC's Squawk Box this morning, said that he doesn't think bitcoin is "an effective storehold of wealth", comparing it unfavorably to gold.

He said in the interview:

"It's not an effective storehold of wealth because it has volatility to it, unlike gold. Bitcoin is a highly speculative market. Bitcoin is a bubble."

While he noted that bitcoin "could be a currency," Dalio argued that a mix of market speculation and the lack of broader adoption is getting in the way

"It’s a shame, it could be a currency. It could work, conceptually, but the amount of speculation that is going on and the lack of transactions [prevent it]," he said.

Dalio went on to add that the privacy aspects of bitcoin it difficult to accept as a currency as well, asserting “people won’t know what you’re doing."

His comments come as cryptocurrency markets recover from regulatory developments in China, which have seen officials there increasing their scrutiny in the exchange space, trigging a raft of closures and policy changes. At press time, the price of bitcoin is trading at roughly $3,984, per CoinDesk's Bitcoin Price Index (BPI).



_The leader in blockchain news, CoinDesk is an independent media outlet that strives for the highest journalistic standards and abides by a strict set of editorial policies. Have breaking news or a story tip to send to our journalists? Contact us at news@coindesk.com. 

Disclaimer: This article should not be taken as, and is not intended to provide, investment advice. Please conduct your own thorough research before investing in any cryptocurrency.



_


----------



## DB008

*Bitcoin Was Just Used to Pay for a New Home in Texas*​Texas-based real estate brokerage firm Kuper Sotheby’s International Realty has completed the first-ever sale of a real estate property using just bitcoin.

The world’s most popular cryptocurrency has long moved on from its shadowy past to become a legitimate currency used to purchase Starbucks coffee, Xbox games, and now, a newly built custom home with grand entertaining areas, a master suite, and a chef-worthy kitchen.

The price of the home hasn’t been disclosed, but more important than that is the ease of the overall transaction. The buyer simply transferred the bitcoin to the seller, who then converted it into U.S. dollars.

“In all of my 33 years of closing transactions, I honestly couldn’t have expected something so unique to go so smoothly,” Kuper Sotheby’s Sheryl Lowe, the buyer’s agent, said in a press release. “In a matter of 10 minutes, the bitcoin was changed to U.S. dollars and the deal was done!”

This real estate transaction is further proof that bitcoin isn’t “a fraud,” as some have claimed. It’s also another example of the increasing acceptance of cryptocurrencies, which are poised to revolutionize a variety of industries beyond finance, from transportation to entertainment to politics.


https://futurism.com/bitcoin-was-just-used-to-pay-for-a-new-home-in-texas/​


----------



## DB008

John McAfee on Bitcoin








​


----------



## DB008

McLovin - your neck of the woods

​


----------



## DB008

*As China cracks down, Japan is fast becoming*
*the powerhouse of the bitcoin market*​
On Friday, Japan's Financial Services Agency officially recognized 11 companies as registered cryptocurrency exchange operators.
This is the latest decision in Japan to show support for digital currency. In April, it passed a law recognizing bitcoin as legal tender.
Japan's stance is in stark contrast to China, where regulators have cracked down on the market.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/bitcoin-exchanges-officially-recognized-by-japan.html​


----------



## DB008

*Bitcoin Market Share at 52% as Hard Fork Looms*​Bitcoin rose briskly on Monday, bringing its total market share above 50% as investors eyed an upcoming hard fork of the world’s leading blockchain.

*Another Fork in the Road*
The latest uptick in bitcoin partly reflects investors positioning themselves to capitalize on an upcoming fork in the blockchain. On Oct. 25, a group of cryptocurrency miners plan to fork the Bitcoin blockchain network, creating a new algorithm called Bitcoin Gold (BTG). Investors who own BTC before the fork will receive an equivalent amount of Bitcoin Gold after the chain split. This is an attractive bet for those of us already bullish on bitcoin.

The BTG developers plan to open a trading exchange by Nov. 1.  The goal of BTG is the same as any hard fork – namely, to improve the protocol. By forking from the current software branch and introducing a new version, Bitcoin Gold is taking aim at the current challenges facing the mining community.

The Bitcoin Gold project is being led by Jack Liao, who heads the Hong Kong-based mining firm LightningASIC.

https://hacked.com/bitcoin-market-share-at-52-as-hard-fork-looms/


----------



## DB008

In a shopping center - Medford, Oregon, USA.

​


----------



## basilio

Now that Bitcoins are  the new currency how about making your own? 

*Bitcoin Mining Hardware Guide*


*The best Bitcoin mining hardware has evolved dramatically since 2009*



At first, miners used their central *processing unit* (CPU) to mine, but soon this wasn't fast enough and it bogged down the system resources of the host computer. Miners quickly moved on to using the *graphical processing unit* (GPU) in computer graphics cards because they were able to hash data 50 to 100 times faster and consumed much less power per unit ofwork.

https://www.bitcoinmining.com/bitcoin-mining-hardware/


----------



## basilio

I did find another source which explained the process behind bitcoin mining and how it isn't as "simple" as just get a bunch of fast computers together.

*“Is Bitcoin Mining Profitable in 2017?“*
The short answer would be “It depends on how much you’re willing to spend”. Each person asking himself this will get a slightly different answer since Bitcoin Mining profitability depends on many different factors. In order to find out Bitcoin mining profitability for different factors “mining profitability calculators” were invented.

These calculators take into account the different parameters such as electricity cost, the cost of your hardware and other variables and give you an estimate of your projected profit. Before I give you a short example of how this is calculated let’s make sure you are familiar with the different variables:

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-mining-profitable-beginners-explanation/


----------



## DB008

Very interesting....

*A hacker stole $31M of Ether — how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum*
​Yesterday, a hacker pulled off the second biggest heist in the history of digital currencies.

Around 12:00 PST, an unknown attacker exploited a critical flaw in the Parity multi-signature wallet on the Ethereum network, draining three massive wallets of over $31,000,000 worth of Ether in a matter of minutes. Given a couple more hours, the hacker could’ve made off with over $180,000,000 from vulnerable wallets.

But someone stopped them.

Having sounded the alarm bells, a group of benevolent white-hat hackers from the Ethereum community rapidly organized. They analyzed the attack and realized that there was no way to reverse the thefts, yet many more wallets were vulnerable. Time was of the essence, so they saw only one available option: hack the remaining wallets before the attacker did.

By exploiting the same vulnerability, the white-hats hacked all of the remaining at-risk wallets and drained their accounts, effectively preventing the attacker from reaching any of the remaining $150,000,000.


*https://medium.freecodecamp.org/a-hacker-stole-31m-of-ether-how-it-happened-and-what-it-means-for-ethereum-9e5dc29e33ce*​


----------



## moXJO

DB008 said:


> Very interesting....
> 
> *A hacker stole $31M of Ether — how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum*
> ​Yesterday, a hacker pulled off the second biggest heist in the history of digital currencies.
> 
> Around 12:00 PST, an unknown attacker exploited a critical flaw in the Parity multi-signature wallet on the Ethereum network, draining three massive wallets of over $31,000,000 worth of Ether in a matter of minutes. Given a couple more hours, the hacker could’ve made off with over $180,000,000 from vulnerable wallets.
> 
> But someone stopped them.
> 
> Having sounded the alarm bells, a group of benevolent white-hat hackers from the Ethereum community rapidly organized. They analyzed the attack and realized that there was no way to reverse the thefts, yet many more wallets were vulnerable. Time was of the essence, so they saw only one available option: hack the remaining wallets before the attacker did.
> 
> By exploiting the same vulnerability, the white-hats hacked all of the remaining at-risk wallets and drained their accounts, effectively preventing the attacker from reaching any of the remaining $150,000,000.
> 
> 
> *https://medium.freecodecamp.org/a-hacker-stole-31m-of-ether-how-it-happened-and-what-it-means-for-ethereum-9e5dc29e33ce*​



Probably North Korea.


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## DB008

Ethereum just forked.

Byzantium/Metropolis upgrades. ZK-Snarks.


----------



## DB008

Bitcoin is pushing for a $8k (AUD) breakthrough soon - nudging it.....

https://www.btcmarkets.net/home​





Hard fork coming shortly. Very interesting times we live in. From a low of $4000 about a month ago...


----------



## DB008

Bitcoin is going bonkers ($10k)..........about 2 weeks to go before the Segwit fork - not 100% if it will go ahead.

Anyways, enjoy



​


----------



## DB008

What do you think about this? From 2014? Projection 101.....


​


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## satanoperca

DB008 said:


> Very interesting....
> 
> *A hacker stole $31M of Ether — how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum*
> ​Yesterday, a hacker pulled off the second biggest heist in the history of digital currencies.
> 
> Around 12:00 PST, an unknown attacker exploited a critical flaw in the Parity multi-signature wallet on the Ethereum network, draining three massive wallets of over $31,000,000 worth of Ether in a matter of minutes. Given a couple more hours, the hacker could’ve made off with over $180,000,000 from vulnerable wallets.
> 
> But someone stopped them.
> 
> Having sounded the alarm bells, a group of benevolent white-hat hackers from the Ethereum community rapidly organized. They analyzed the attack and realized that there was no way to reverse the thefts, yet many more wallets were vulnerable. Time was of the essence, so they saw only one available option: hack the remaining wallets before the attacker did.
> 
> By exploiting the same vulnerability, the white-hats hacked all of the remaining at-risk wallets and drained their accounts, effectively preventing the attacker from reaching any of the remaining $150,000,000.
> 
> 
> *https://medium.freecodecamp.org/a-hacker-stole-31m-of-ether-how-it-happened-and-what-it-means-for-ethereum-9e5dc29e33ce*​




Interesting post with great explanation, but if I  was the one that lost that much money, I would be pissed.

But it brings up an interesting point, if the bank is hacked and looses your money, they are liable and pay it back, if a hackers gets your wallet, bad luck. So the technology is incredible, but no one is help responsible for liabilities, stolen assets.


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## DB008

satanoperca - a hardware wallet is needed for large amounts of coins/value. 

Your mobile or computer is what is regarded as a 'hot wallet'. Cold-storage, a offline wallet or a paper-wallet is more secure.

These are the 2 leading brands of hardware wallets currently on the market -

Trezor - https://trezor.io/

Ledger Nano S - https://www.ledgerwallet.com/products/ledger-nano-s

I use both

Trezor just launched the Model T and the Trezor 2 is coming this year sometime.


----------



## CanOz

Bitcoin futures at the cme soon!


----------



## Junior

What is the best book(s) to read to wrap one's head around blockchain and it's implications, and potential as a technology?

ps. I'm not interested in Bitcoin fan-sites or resources which are promoting Bitcoin as an 'investment'.  However keen to know more about the mechanics of blockchain & cryptocurrencies.

Thanks team!


----------



## DaveDaGr8

Best place to start is the whitepapers

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper

The source code is also freely available.


----------



## DB008

ZCoin has had a crazy run the last month or so, up 300%....


----------



## Bill M

Hello, I have an Exodus wallet on my PC at home with some Bitcoin and Litecoin in it.

Today I bought $500 worth of gear and paid for that with Bitcoin. The fee charged by Bitcoin was a further $15.90, I find this very high.

My question is, what is the best way to minimise my fees? I'm sure it was never meant to be so expensive. Exodus says they do not charge the fees, it is Bitcoin charging.

So what do you people mostly do to keep fees down? Thanks


----------



## fiftyeight

Not commenting on the likelihood of a crash, but if it does eeeeeeeek

I now have 10 people on Facebook who have "worked" really hard to establish a side business for their future and families (multilevel marketing). These are cashed up fifo workers who are asset poor mostly. If this goes south before the bail they are going to loose many years of savings. 

My first real boom cycle so maybe this is all pretty standard, but with no barriers to entry bitcoin has roped in everyman and his dog. This is going to get messy......or maybe I am just jealous I didn't get a piece of it


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## fiftyeight

Could not of said it better myself 

https://m.facebook.com/TheBellTower...36246052952/857607051112531/?type=3&source=48


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## DB008

Bill M said:


> So what do you people mostly do to keep fees down? Thanks




Hey Bill, you should be able to go into the settings and adjust the fees. Mind you, the lower you go, the lower further down the peking ordering your transactions gets processed. There are reports of transactions getting processed for between 60-80 sats.

​

I use Coinomi and in the settings, l can adjust the fees l choose to pay for a transaction. Out of curiosity l went under $1 and it went through, took over 24 hours though.

Once lightning is implemented, low fees and fast transactions will be the norm.


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## DB008

Here is another 1 Bill...


​


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## DB008

This is also another side of Bitcoin/Cryptos that is a very big positive.


*Bitcoin Emerges as Crisis Currency in Hotspots*​“In many countries in Africa, there are far more cellphones than bank accounts,” said Manuel Valente, co-founder of La Maison. “For bitcoin, all you need is a phone.”

Zimbabwe, where the price of bitcoin spiked to double the international rate after this week’s military takeover, shows Jamie Dimon, Axel Weber and other cryptocurrency skeptics where the real-world use of bitcoin, and possibly its future, lies. It’s becoming the preferred way for residents of failing economies to transfer money without dealing with banks, protecting their savings from political turmoil, and avoiding the local currency when its value declines due to inflation.

There’s no data on how much digital money leaves industrialized nations for the developing world. Part of the allure of electronic cash is the ability to transfer it anonymously. But as events in Zimbabwe have confirmed, bitcoin, the world’s most popular cryptocurrency, is most attractive when confidence in institutions falls.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-crisis-currency-in-hotspots-such-as-zimbabwe​


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## DB008

Speculation. He does make some great points. Do you trust the lying banks and their bailouts or corrupt Governments.


*Bitcoin to hit $20,000 by December 2018 – investor*​Mike Novogratz, the former macro hedge fund manager at Fortress Investment Group who has joined the mad dash for crypto-currencies, predicts the value of a bitcoin will soar to $20,000 by the end of 2018, fueled in part by his believe mainstream institutional investors are about six to eight months from adopting the volatile crypto-currency.

https://www.reuters.com/video/2017/...mber-2018-in?videoId=372974562&videoChannel=5​


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## DB008

LOL 


*JPMorgan busted for money laundering after accusing bitcoin*
*of doing the same*
​The Swiss subsidiary of US bank JPMorgan Chase has been sanctioned by Switzerland’s financial regulator FINMA for money laundering and “seriously violating supervision laws,” according to the local weekly Handelszeitung.

The sanctions are reportedly related to breaches of due diligence in connection with money laundering standards. That literally means the Wall Street banking giant assisted in money laundering.

It is two months since JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon slammed bitcoin, the world’s leading cryptocurrency, labeling it a fraud. According to Dimon, bitcoin could be useful _“if you were a drug dealer or a murderer.”_

Dimon also compared bitcoin to the 17th-century Dutch tulip mania bubble. At the time, the CEO predicted the eventual demise of the digital currency and pledged to fire any trader trading bitcoin for being stupid.

https://www.rt.com/business/410137-jpmorgan-busted-money-laundering-bitcoin/​


----------



## galumay

fiftyeight said:


> This is going to get messy......or maybe I am just jealous I didn't get a piece of it




Oh definitely, its going to get very messy, sadly many people who don't have any understanding of investment, economics or risk management will lose the money they have gambled on this speculative bubble. 

While on one level I do feel sorry for them, I also think people need to take some personal responsibility and educate themselves better.


----------



## Bill M

DB008 said:


> Coinomi



Hi DB, I found Coinomi but I am having trouble finding "My Bitcoin Wallet". What is the exact app I should be looking at?

Which one is best do you think? 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## DB008

Hey Bill,
Open the app Coinomi
Press the overview button - top left
A side menu appears
Press the " + Coins " bottom of screen
Menu with coins appears
Bitcoin is the top one
Click on Bitcoin
It will ask you for your password - input password - it is now added to your overview screen
Once added - click on Bitcoin (or whatever coin you have added)
You now have a detailed view of all of your Bitcoin transactions - it should read "Balance"
To receive Bitcoins (someone sends it to you, or send to yourself from an exchange) swipe left
To send (give to someone else) swipe right

Buy Bitcoin from BTC Markets, copy and paste address from Coinomi into BTC Markets withdrawal page. Done

Also, if you are adding Ethereum tokens (ERC20), you have to add Ethereum, then go into the Ethereum balance page and "add Dapps" (Swipe right twice). There is over 100 dApps listed l think.


----------



## Bill M

Hey DB, thanks for all the effort you are putting into this and explaining it like I am a 5 year old. I need it as I'm not very cluey with this stuff.

OK, so I downloaded coinomi, pretty easy simple thing to do and I now have a wallet on my phone with zero in it.

I have EXODUS with funds in it, works well and very simple but fees are high. So I can send funds from litecoin and bitcoin in EXODUS to my coinonmi bitcoin and litecoin. Q. Is that the process I must do? Q. Won't fees to do that chew up a fair chunk?

Or do you think I should leave exodus alone and just start using coinomi? Run 2 separate wallets with 2 separate funds?

On some reading in coinomi it says that you should generate a new key for each transaction so that people can not track previous transactions. So how is it that in EXODUS they just use the same keys all the time. It is totally the opposite to what coinomi says. Thanks, sorry about all the questions but I bet a few other readers are finding this banter useful too, cheers.


----------



## DB008

Bill M said:


> Hey DB, thanks for all the effort you are putting into this and explaining it like I am a 5 year old. I need it as I'm not very cluey with this stuff.




Hey Bill
No problem. l'll try to answer as best l can. 

You want to get this right the first time because there isn't a second time. If you make a mistake, your funds are gone forever.




Bill M said:


> OK, so I downloaded coinomi, pretty easy simple thing to do and I now have a wallet on my phone with zero in it.
> 
> I have EXODUS with funds in it, works well and very simple but fees are high. So I can send funds from litecoin and bitcoin in EXODUS to my coinonmi bitcoin and litecoin. Q. Is that the process I must do? Q. Won't fees to do that chew up a fair chunk?
> 
> Or do you think I should leave exodus alone and just start using coinomi? Run 2 separate wallets with 2 separate funds?




Your on the right track. 

Having 2 wallets is up to you. I keep my funds in a hardware wallet.

Bitcoin - send it to a Bitcoin address
Litecoin - Litecoin address
Ethereum - Ethereum address

I always copy and paste the address - or scan the QR code.

How long will you be holding onto the funds?

Short term (days/weeks), l would leave it in a hot wallet like Coinomi/Exodus on your mobile.

Long term holding, l'd either move it to a paper wallet or a secure hardware wallet - Trezor or Ledger.

You can buy directly from the manufacturer. I highly recommend a hardware wallet.

Trezor website
https://trezor.io/

Ledger
https://www.ledgerwallet.com/

Aussie reseller (not too bad pricing)
https://www.coinstop.com.au/shop​

Every time you move the money around, you have to pay. Ethereum is very, very, very cheap and fast.

Every computation on the Ethereum network cost _gas_, so do value transfers like on the bitcoin blockchain.

Every computational step, or OPCODE requires a specific amount of gas (which is hardcoded). You pay for gas using _ether_. To determine the fee you pay you calculate:
required gas * gas price = fee

For example a simple value transfer cost 21000 gas, the current gas price is dynamically set by users and miners and is currently ~0.00000005 ether, so the value transaction would cost *~0.00105 ether* or *$0.001 to $0.002 USD* at current prices. Current BTC transaction fees vary anywhere from *$0.01 to $0.09 USD
*
Users can set the gas price they are willing to pay and and miners can set the minimum gas price they are willing to accept. This creates a dynamic market, which allows ethers "fee" to be dynamic and adopt to ether price swings.​
You should be able to adjust the fees in Exodus somewhere. The lower it is, the longer it will take to get processed because you'll be down the peking order. However, l think they the fees will be pretty low already. If you have time on your hands and aren't in a rush - try adjusting the fees very low and see how you go. Might take up to 24 hours, but you'll get there in the end. I did a Bitcoin transaction and it cost $7 l think from memory and took about an hour to process.

More info here on Exodus fees - http://support.exodus.io/article/67-how-do-i-send-or-exchange-an-ethereum-powered-asset




Bill M said:


> On some reading in coinomi it says that you should generate a new key for each transaction so that people can not track previous transactions. So how is it that in EXODUS they just use the same keys all the time. It is totally the opposite to what coinomi says. Thanks, sorry about all the questions but I bet a few other readers are finding this banter useful too, cheers.




That's for the paranoid. I wouldn't worry about it Bill. If you have a hardware wallet, who cares?
Bitcoin is a public ledger - all transactions are available to view - part of what makes Bitcoin great is that every transaction is visible, to anyone. And, if you dig around, you can see million $$$$ transactions take place all the time.

Tip - When sending a large amounts (like 20k+ for example), l always send $5 or $10 to make sure it goes to the right address, then l send the rest. You don't want to send it to the wrong address and lose it.

Here is a site that generates paperwallets - for offline cold storage if you don't want a hardware wallet
https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html


----------



## Bill M

DB, thanks for that wealth of info.

I am going to keep BTC long term with 2/3'ds of my stash in there. Right from the start people have been telling me to treat BTC as your gold. Then someone got me on to LTE as a cheaper way to send money. It is the buy/sell account that you can use all the time, so that is why I use that one.

Don't know why but ETH has never been offered as a buying or selling currency but I am will to go with the flow. I do buy and sell some goods online and find LTE very handy and easy. BTC just hit you up on fees but I think if want the "gold" you got to pay for it.

Exodus allows you to export your private keys and allows you to be your own private bank on blockchain info I think it is. The fees are much lower there. I haven't done it yet but I might do a dribble drop to test it out.

I think I will follow your suggestion and buy a nano s hard wallet. My question on that is what happens when the BTC forks happen? i.e. sedgwit or bitcoin gold?, are nano s users included? How does that work with nano s?

One last question (for now), if you had $1500 and you had to spread it over 3 cryptos which 3 would you buy? 

Cheers mate,
Bill


----------



## DB008

Bill M said:


> I think I will follow your suggestion and buy a nano s hard wallet. My question on that is what happens when the BTC forks happen? i.e. sedgwit or bitcoin gold?, are nano s users included? How does that work with nano s?
> 
> One last question (for now), if you had $1500 and you had to spread it over 3 cryptos which 3 would you buy?
> 
> Cheers mate,
> Bill




Hey Bill,

Ask away. I'm not an expert, but will try to answer any questions. If l don't know the answer l'll Google it or jump to a forum and find out for you. Please don't take what l say gospel, or anyone else reading this... 

Good on you for getting a hardware wallet, think of it as insurance. 

$100 - small price to pay IMO.

The two hardware wallets l mentioned are (at the moment - and l think foreseeable future) are unhackable/crackable. Even if a virus or malware or someone managed to take control of your computer, with a hardware wallet (Trezor or Ledger, latest firmware) they still wouldn't be able to steal your money because your private keys never leave the hardware chip and you physically have to press a confirmation button to 'ok' the transaction. They also have robust brute force attack resistance. Make sure you write down your 24 word pass-phase during set-up and keep it in a safe place. I can't reinforce this enough.

The 2 recent forks, Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold - no problem so far. I held my Bitcoin in the Coinomi app and all went well.

Whatever amount of Bitcoin you held, you receive the exact same amount in Bitcoin Cash and later on, Bitcoin Gold.
If you held 1.345694 of Bitcoin you received 1.345694 Bitcoin Cash and 1.345694 Bitcoin Gold. They weren't the price of Bitcoin and the first few hours/days, there was huge volatility and not much liquidity in Bitcoin Cash - I personally say jumps of $1000 in Bitcoin Cash. 
The wallets seem to be better at this than exchanges. Some exchanges in the USA didn't want to give their customers Bitcoin Cash and threats of class action lawsuits twisted their hands. But even then, they won't be issuing Bitcoin Cash until next year. Some very unhappy customers to say the least.

https://themerkle.com/not-all-exchanges-crediting-bitcoin-cash-tokens-will-support-bch-trading/

I read today that since Segwit implementation, transaction fees for Bitcoin have dropped big time. You can also set the fees in the hardware wallets too. Not sure if you can drill down even further, I'll look into it. This is settings Ledger below



​Crypto's are an unregulated market and the scam artists have arrived.

That's why China hit the brakes on ICO's earlier this year.

On top of that: there are literally thousands of coins on the market and 99% of them are rubbish and won't be here in 2 or 3 or 5 years time. Lots of people have latched onto raising money for a coin, eg, Bill Coin - it offers X, Y, Z. The money gets raised and then they run off with the capital. 

Please, please, please read this short article...

*How To Create An ICO Scam in 5 Simple Steps
https://steemit.com/scam/@moonjelly/how-to-create-an-ico-scam-in-5-simple-steps*​

$1500 to invest in 3 coins. That's a hard one. Don't take what l say as financial advice.

I like -

Bitcoin - like you said, 'the' gold standard
Ark - developing a smartbridge system connecting all the various Blockchains
Litecoin - it's a fork from Bitcoin. Great development team. Atomic swaps coming soon
IOTA - regarded as Bitcoin 3.0 - next gen. Could go up, or down.
Monero - gold standard in privacy
Qtum - hybrid of Ethereum and Bitcoin
OmiseGo (OMG) - already a huge clearing house, they are getting their customers to switch to the blockchain and are trying to sign up McDonald's in Thailand
Stellar - micro payments, huge potential but risky
Ardor - child chains with pruning and scalability
Power ledger - selling solar credit and what-not. Aussie thing. If Elon musk and S.A. get in on it, has potential to go bananas, careful, has risen some 400+ % this month already

Some other ways you can get more info -

Reddit (Bitcoin + cryptocurrencies sub)
Whirlpool Forums Australia (finance/crypto section)
Crypto News aggregates (I use Crypto News - Google Play Store)
Set up Google alerts with key words like Bitcoin, Ethereum
Some youtubers have channels dedicated to daily updates (take with a handful of salt)

​


There is also a lot of propaganda been thrown around buy people with huge amounts of money. Money to pay for online presence, stories and blogs. One of those people is Roger Ver. He made hundreds of millions getting in early on Bitcoin amongst other things and also purchased the Bitcoin domain name. He recently got together with Craig Steven Wright (the self proclaimed Aussie 'Satoshi Nakamoto') and others and was involved in the attempted Bitcoin Cash coupe trying to de-throne Bitcoin and claiming that Bitcoin Cash was the real Bitcoin.
It's an interesting world we live in Bill.

I hope you have great success in crypto trading!


----------



## DB008

Sorry for the typos in my previous responses.

Anyways, some more info to keep you going...

Blockchain technology intro

​


Difference between Segwit and Segwitx2

_*SegWit2x* is a combination of both *SegWit* and a *2MB hardfork* (to activate three months after SegWit).

*SegWit2x* uses a different 'bit' for signaling (bit 4 instead of bit 1) than *SegWit*._​

This fork did not happen. It was the hostile coupe that failed last week.


You'll also start to hear about "ASIC" mining machines used to 'mine' Bitcoin. Mining is basically validating the transactions and as it uses cryptography and the computational resources need are huge/resource hungry, warehouses of ASIC's are needed (think 10,000+)

An *application-specific integrated circuit* (abbreviated as *ASIC*) is an integrated circuit (IC) customized for a particular use, rather than intended for general-purpose use. In Bitcoin mining hardware, ASICs were the next step of development after CPUs, GPUs and FPGAs. Capable of easily outperforming the aforementioned platforms for Bitcoin mining in both speed and efficiency, all Bitcoin mining hardware that is practical in use will make use of one or more Bitcoin (SHA256d) ASICs.

Note that Bitcoin ASIC chips generally can _only be used for Bitcoin mining_. While there are rare exceptions - for example chips that mine both Bitcoin and Litecoin - this is often because the chip package effectively has two ASICs: one for Bitcoin and one for Litecoin.

The ASIC chip of choice determines, in large part, the cost and efficiency of a given miner, as ASIC development and manufacture are very expensive processes, and the ASIC chips themselves are often the components that require the most power on a Bitcoin miner.

While there are many Bitcoin mining hardware manufacturers, some of these should be seen as systems integrators - using the ASIC chips manufactured by other parties, and combining them with other electronic components on a board to form the Bitcoin mining hardware.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ASIC​


​


Here is another one - Genesis Mining - cloud based mining. Could be a scam or not (DYOR)

​

Review on Genesis
Genesis sounds like a scam (from the reviews l've read so far), but l just included the videos to show you a nice, clean Bitcoin mining operation. The Chinese ones look like rubbish tips compared to these ones.


Cost of electricity is one (if not), the main factor in setting up a Bitcoin mining farm. China has lots of mines because they can get very, very cheap electricity. Russia has also indicated that it will enter this space and Japan has plans to bring out special 7nm chips for Bitcoin mining.


----------



## Bill M

Thanks for all your help DB, all good stuff.

I put in the order for a nano s hard wallet. Got it from coinspot for $115.

Cheers,
Bill


----------



## Bill M

Just watched the videos, absolutely mind blowing. I just wish I was 40 years younger so I could take part in all this in a more meaningful way. Thanks DB.


----------



## DB008

Bill M said:


> Just watched the videos, absolutely mind blowing. I just wish I was 40 years younger so I could take part in all this in a more meaningful way. Thanks DB.




Yep, crazy. I personally think this is the start of the digital/cyber/crypto currency age. Much like the internet in the early 90's, well, this is just like that. I also wish I'd know about it 5 years earlier.

Have a look at these clips, really opens your eyes to what is happening out there. I think Australia is a little bit behind in this area.



Short version (1:37)​



Longer version (5:34)​

Forgot to put this in. The most important part

Bitcoin Whitepaper
https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf​


----------



## DB008

Ok as l mentioned before there is a war going on between Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash where Roger Ver is trying to dethrone Bitcoin

Weird because he (Ver) made all of his wealth from Bitcoin and now he wants to destroy Bitcoin

Anyways, some more info

Roger Ver owns the domain Bitcoin.com

He wants Bitcoin Cash to succeed for whatever reason. He bet $4 million on Segwit2X and $1 million on Bitcoin Cash.

Bitcoin Cash is a fork from the original Bitcoin.
It is really just an Alt Coin. Has larger blocks, nothing else. They tried to also do a Segwit2X hostile takeover, it failed when all the gapping holes were exposed. They were renting servers from Amazon to try to project that they have thousands of nodes - exposed

Now on the domain Bitcoin.com they have uploaded a wallet disguised as a Bitcoin Cash wallet.

This is a scam


​


Like l said, be extra careful and double check everything twice before just clicking away. If your new to this game and send Bitcoin to Bitcoin Cash wallet, you'll more than likely lose those funds. Gone. Never to be seen again.


​Be careful out there!

Propaganda machines are in full swing


----------



## SuperGlue

DB008 said:


> Like l said, be extra careful and double check everything twice before just clicking away. If your new to this game and send Bitcoin to Bitcoin Cash wallet, you'll more than likely lose those funds. Gone. Never to be seen again.




Daylight robbery/scam into someone's pocket or disappear into thin air?

Shouldn't this be reported to Apple?


----------



## DB008

SuperGlue said:


> Daylight robbery/scam into someone's pocket or disappear into thin air?
> 
> Shouldn't this be reported to Apple?




Your sending funds to a different blockchain. Different address.


----------



## DB008

**This is my opinion only.

Caution

As of right now, l am putting myself on an extreme warning and liquidating all assets for a month or two. There will be more purchasing opportunity, but l think this could be a time to sit on the sidelines and wait.

Bitcoin price has been manipulated by Bitfinex and it is only a matter of time before it collapses.

Bitfinex and US Tethers (US Tethers are meant to be USD 1:1) - extremely shady, dark, twisted, illegal practices are being used right now and l predict a upcoming crash on Bitcoin. When this happens, it will be great buying opportunities.

http://www.ofnumbers.com/2017/11/09/a-note-from-bob-on-the-transparency-of-tether/

https://medium.com/@bitfinexed/are-...d-for-margin-lending-on-bitfinex-5de9dd80f330

This is my opinion only.


----------



## Bill M

Hey DB and all others watching, just saw this video called *The Bitcoin Bubble - How Will it End*. It also makes reference to the tech crash and 1987 share market crash, also has a bit of humour in it. "What the hell is Lady Ga Ga." Good watching.


----------



## DB008

Hey Bill,
I sent this to you via PM, but l'll share it.
Why Western Union and finance is dead and/or on life support in the next 5-10 years.

Remember, this transaction could have been to anywhere in the world : to the bloke next door or from the North Pole to Melbourne.


----------



## joeno

Hi guys, is it possible to bet against the Bitcoin market? e.g. put options, or simple shorts. I just have an Interactive Brokers account.


----------



## DB008

Bitcoin forked again yesterday

Bitcoin Diamond was born

http://www.btcd.io/​
10:1 ratio

Happy trading


----------



## SuperGlue

DB008 said:


> Bitcoin forked again yesterday
> 
> Bitcoin Diamond was born




DB008 are you going to received this Bitcoin Diamond fork?

From memory you went through BTC Markets and receive Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold? 
Right.

Was talking to my niece about the Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold fork, she knew about it but did not received any, she went through a US bitcoin exchange.


----------



## DB008

If you owned Bitcoin, you will always receive the forked coins. It's better to have it on a wallet than an exchange. I said a few posts ago that some exchanges are holding onto the new forked coins, which is illegal IMO.
I'm going to hold Bitcoin Diamond (once you receive it).
Just think of these forks as share splits, or dividends.

I had my Bitcoins on Coinomi for the Bitcoin forks. Received them a month or so after the fork.


----------



## Bill M

If you had bitcoin on an exchange like Exodus on the date of the Bitcoin Gold fork then you are most likely going to get your Bitcoin Gold. I wasn't sure so I dug around and found that in fact BTG will be there waiting for you. Sure enough today I found it and I got some free money. You don't have to rush to do this. 

I followed this blog to claim my BTG and it worked: https://coinsutra.com/claim-bitcoin-gold-btg/


----------



## Wysiwyg

DB008 said:


> Why Western Union and finance is dead and/or on life support in the next 5-10 years.
> 
> Remember, this transaction could have been to anywhere in the world : to the bloke next door or from the North Pole to Melbourne.



Authorities in some capacity are gonna jump on this because criminals will or are using it.


----------



## SuperGlue

Thanks DB008 and Thanks Bill M.

Will pass the info to my niece.

I personally don't have any cryptocurrencies or account, but will open one just in case.
At the dizzying pace Bitcoin is running it tempt me & also frighten me.

I'll have to start with Ripple (poor man's bitcoin) and perhaps it will have a ripple effect when I check my bottom drawer many years down the track, hopefully sooner.


----------



## DB008

Wysiwyg said:


> Authorities in some capacity are gonna jump on this because criminals will or are using it.




Australia is actually going to embrace blockchain technology. Legislation is being drafted at the moment.

The privacy coin Monero is the one coin which is currently being used on the dark web.
The FBI have already admitted they can't trace/follow this one. It was recently used in the crypto locker virus in Europe, where the hackers converted Bitcoin to Monero, and vanished......


----------



## DB008

It's a sea of Green at the moment. Surely there has to be some kind of pullback soon? Or not?

BTC, ETH and a lot of the smaller alts have been going gang-busters.

Bitcoin nudging 13k. The way it's going, it might hit 20k by the end of the year...

Here is another small penny stock crypto that might do well in the future...

Request https://request.network/#/


----------



## DB008

*Turnbull government invests in blockchain*​
A Turnbull government frontbencher has said the Coalition is not afraid of getting into business with companies in the cryptocurrency world after it made a multimillion-dollar taxpayer funded investment in bitcoin technology. 

Angus Taylor, the Assistant Minister for Cities and Digital Transformation, on Friday awarded the government's second largest grant in its Smart Cities and Suburbs program to a project partly run by Power Ledger the first Australian company to list itself on digital currency exchanges. 


http://amp.smh.com.au/business/the-...mpany-for-the-first-time-20171121-gzplb4.html​


----------



## DB008

Nice


​


----------



## DB008

Bill - low fees for you

​


----------



## DB008

Random pizzeria in New Jersey

​


----------



## Bill M

In the last 2 weeks I have paid my unit levys, topped up my super and dropped cash into my NAB account with BTC, works very well. All I need now is a local ATM but there are other simple ways of getting your BTC into your bank accounts or to use them to pay your bills.


----------



## SuperGlue

Millions 'stolen' in NiceHash Bitcoin heist
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42275523

Glad I got my Ledger Nano S last week.
Now I've got too many password to remember.


----------



## DB008

Wysiwyg said:


> Authorities in some capacity are gonna jump on this because criminals will or are using it.




Wysiwyg - one word, Monero

https://getmonero.org/

Monero manages to protect the privacy of all its users by means of the so-called ring signatures, a group of cryptographic signatures in which only one of the ones that appears is real, but there is no way to indicate which it is or where it came from, seem valid. In addition, it is also developing a tool to hide the IP address from where the operations are performed, so it will become more and more anonymous.

https://coins.newbium.com/post/6630-fbi-investigations-could-be-hampered-by-growing-an​


----------



## DB008

SuperGlue said:


> Millions 'stolen' in NiceHash Bitcoin heist
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42275523
> 
> Glad I got my Ledger Nano S last week.
> Now I've got too many password to remember.




Looks like the mining pool was hacked.

Bitcoin itself, in this case, was not cracked or hacked in any way/shape or form.


----------



## AussieNick

SuperGlue said:


> Millions 'stolen' in NiceHash Bitcoin heist
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42275523
> 
> Glad I got my Ledger Nano S last week.
> Now I've got too many password to remember.



Something to be said for holding a harware wallet oand/or using cold storage if your holding onto cryto for awhile huh


----------



## SuperGlue

"7 cryptocurrencies to watch in 2018 if you’re on the hunt for the next bitcoin"

"Analysts pick the bitcoin rivals to read up on now: Litecoin, Monero, Neo, Cardano, Ripple, Iota and Bitcoin Cash"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/7...e-on-the-hunt-for-the-next-bitcoin-2017-12-12


----------



## DB008

Wow. Huge rise the last few weeks. This is crazy. 100% a month isn't uncommon....


----------



## greggles

In Venezuela, people are abandoning their national currency and buying Bitcoin. As the Venezuelan bolivar plunges, at least Bitcoin provides a degree of stability.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...n/news-story/b4ee91a802ed265a237699aa2ed4dd44


----------



## SuperGlue

Bitcoin God (GOD) will be forked off the main bitcoin chain at the block height of 501225, which will happen on December 25.

If this is true, how do I go about getting them.
Currently my BTC is on my Ledger wallet, do I transfer them back to my BTC Markets account?


----------



## SuperGlue

Latest tweet from Chandler Guo : 501225 and screenshot of tweet from Bitcoin God:


One exchange is already trading @ US$654.
Don't know how when is hasn't been forked.

Checkout Bitcoin God website for supporting exchanges & wallets.
BTC Markets is not on the list.

https://www.bitcoingod.org/
Its beginning to look like Christmas....
If it is true, it will be Jingle Bells, jingle bells jingle all the way.....


----------



## SuperGlue

Current block height:500200 and counting.

Not meant to put any pressure.


----------



## greggles

You know Bitcoin mania is out of control when companies can go up more than 400% just by changing their name to include the word blockchain. The Bitcoin bubble is like the dot com boom on steroids.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...b_a-technology_b-gdntech#link_time=1513886449


----------



## tech/a

If that doesn't come back in a few weeks then the world has gone mad.

The rest of it is here to stay.

Ripple up 70% in 2 days.


----------



## Value Collector

This guy knows a bit about pump and dumps, and he is worried.


----------



## tech/a

*For Those of you waiting for a crash its now happening!




*


----------



## tech/a

Stop press its coming back!!!

Merry Xmas!


----------



## Wysiwyg

Yes BTCUSD below 14000. Interesting to watch unfold as there would have to be players with no trading experience buying into this at any price.


----------



## tech/a

Yes just watch the inexperienced Buy up

Only took them 15 min!!!




*What an opportunity!!

Gotta be quick!*


----------



## notting

Stay short..........................


----------



## Wysiwyg

Obviously different brokers have different prices. This 1 minute ago and no bounce in the last 15 minutes.


----------



## kid hustlr

Tech do you use a wallet or is there just a broker who allows you to trade the 'majors' 

?


----------



## notting

One suspects the geniuses trading it long, would be getting whipsawed to oblivion if they keep getting in again after their stops are triggered.
Then again I guess they could be relying on two weeks of back testing in this months environment to determine the perfect spot for their stops.  
Not really likely is it?!!


----------



## tech/a

kid hustlr said:


> Tech do you use a wallet or is there just a broker who allows you to trade the 'majors'
> 
> ?




Getting a wallet 
Use BTC 

Sat and watched the account go into negative and back to yesterday’s close in an Hr 

Fear at its best 
Someone made some bucks!

If you manipulate a few of them everything follows


----------



## kid hustlr

Yes it all seems like cowboys to me. Probably very good trading.

Longer term who knows


----------



## tech/a

And down we go again!

Crazy stuff.

Holding on!


----------



## CanOz

Add some more tech, nothing beats averaging down!


----------



## fiftyeight

I have not found any real catalyst or news. Plenty of general bad press over the passed few days but nothing out of the ordinary.

Have I missed something?


----------



## tech/a

CanOz said:


> Add some more tech, nothing beats averaging down!




Not out of the question

I’ve been watching Bitcoin course of trades
Sales are bits of coin
Buying full coins 

Don’t think there is much of any understanding or reasoning 
My view is that a lot of dabblers have dabbled and freaked at what
They made and lost in hours. So volatility of epic proportions.

But underneath there are long term holders who do take advantage of dips
They bought Back very strongly when bitcash dropped 79% 
Only lasted minutes


----------



## notting

tech/a said:


> Only lasted minutes



Dude I mean Duck.
It's still down 25% since yesterday as I type.  That's not a minute!!!


----------



## notting

notting said:


> Stay short..........................







View attachment 85315





Chart was showing volume and break out and glug glug glug.....


----------



## Joules MM1

late comers are thinking well this is going well




new vending machines going in just down the road......as i recall same cycle when gold was coming out of vending machines so people could pay their landlords in gold bars mid 2011 .....that ended well

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/bitcoin.html


----------



## notting




----------



## DB008

Hardware wallets - if you don't use 'em, your open to getting hacked and funds stolen


*Hackers Stole $413.000 from BlackWallet*​The attack reportedly took place on 13 January after hackers managed to hijack DNS server for BlackWallet

Hackers have hijacked the DNS server for BlackWallet, an online wallet for Stellar Lumens (XLM), and has stolen about 669,920 Lumens amounting to about $413000 according to the current rate.

The attack reportedly took place on 13 January after hackers managed to hijack its DNS server, change the settings and redirect it towards their own third-party server.

Many users have taken to social media, Reddit, Stellar and other cryptocurrency forums to warn others against logging into the compromised website and having their funds vanish from their wallets.

BlackWallet administrators have also been trying to contact Bittrex to block the hackers' account.


https://hype.codes/hackers-stole-413000-blackwallet​


----------



## moXJO

Some trading ideas.


----------



## moXJO

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylesamani
This guy makes some bad calls, but has some good insight into the crypto space. Lots of links to other cryptocoin heavies.


----------



## galumay

the derp is deep.


----------



## DB008

Chadstone, Melbourne, VIC

​


----------



## DB008

*IBM executive says blockchain 'creates a lot of value' for manufacturers, retailers*
​
"Mad Money" shot Jim Cramer spoke with IBM's Martin Schroeter after earnings to hear his take on blockchain, bitcoin and the new tax law
Schroeter, the former CFO and current senior vice president of global markets at IBM, said blockchain "creates a lot of value" for the manufacturing and retail industries
Schroeter also said that while Washington's new tax law was a short-term headwind, IBM still supports the legislation.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/01/...creates-a-lot-of-value-for-manufacturing.html​


----------



## galumay

DB008 said:


> said blockchain "creates a lot of value" for the manufacturing and retail industries




How, pray tell?


----------



## moXJO

https://hacked.com
A lot of info here on cryptocoin news.


----------



## DB008

galumay said:


> How, pray tell?




Streamlining
Cuts down on paperwork
Can't double spend/reverse transactions
Open ledgers (anyone can view/see)


Share trading. T2/T3 settlement for shares. Can be eliminated, settlement done instantly.
Can incorporate smart contracts into real-estate, buying/selling. 14 day building + pest/finance clause satisfied, can be set up to automatically trigger unconditional contracts.


----------



## galumay

Most of that doesnt require blockchain. In fact blockchain is a stupid way to do much of that.


----------



## DB008

galumay said:


> Most of that doesnt require blockchain. In fact blockchain is a stupid way to do much of that.




Really?

Why don't you go back to using a horse and cart then? Internal combustion engines are stupid. Electric, never... 


Contracts, transactions, and the records of them are among the defining structures in our economic, legal, and political systems. They protect assets and set organizational boundaries. They establish and verify identities and chronicle events. They govern interactions among nations, organizations, communities, and individuals. They guide managerial and social action. And yet these critical tools and the bureaucracies formed to manage them have not kept up with the economy’s digital transformation. They’re like a rush-hour gridlock trapping a Formula 1 race car. In a digital world, the way we regulate and maintain administrative control has to change.

Blockchain promises to solve this problem. The technology at the heart of bitcoin and other virtual currencies, blockchain is an open, distributed ledger that can record transactions between two parties efficiently and in a verifiable and permanent way. The ledger itself can also be programmed to trigger transactions automatically.

With blockchain, we can imagine a world in which contracts are embedded in digital code and stored in transparent, shared databases, where they are protected from deletion, tampering, and revision. In this world every agreement, every process, every task, and every payment would have a digital record and signature that could be identified, validated, stored, and shared. Intermediaries like lawyers, brokers, and bankers might no longer be necessary. Individuals, organizations, machines, and algorithms would freely transact and interact with one another with little friction. This is the immense potential of blockchain.​
https://hbr.org/2017/01/the-truth-about-blockchain​


----------



## galumay

DB008 said:


> Why don't you go back to using a horse and cart then? Internal combustion engines are stupid. Electric, never...




Thats a ridiculous analogy, clearly cars are more useful than horses and carts. In the case of blockchain there is no compelling evidence that there is any need or advantage in using a publicly distributed, decentralised, ledger in most possible use cases. There is plenty of evidence that trying to use blockchain in many cases will just lead to a more expensive outcome that doesnt do the task as well as a centralised, private ledger.

Basically blockchain is creating a solution for a problem that doesnt exist, with a horrendous energy cost. The uber-libertarian fantasy of a world without lawyers, brokers and bankers just shows what a slim grip on reality they have. 

Obviously you have bought the hype from those promoting this massive ponzi, be prepared to be disappointed when the future is not quite as they wish it to be.

I don't want to bog the thread down by continuing what looks to be a fairly pointless discussion, but I would at least entreat you to research some of the information that explains why many believe there is a very limited future for blockchain or cryptos, its very easy to get blinded by confirmation bias, especially with these sort of hyped new tech concepts.


----------



## DB008

Ok.

I guess that is your opinion.


----------



## CanOz

I agree, block chain is wonderful technology. It is here to stay. But the concept of the coins having any kind of value will be completely clear once this new generation tech wreck is finished.


----------



## moXJO

Blockchain is here to stay. Banks are already spending big on trials and partnerships. The bank systems are outdated with massive lag times. Blockchain will help with being more secure, cost efficient, and faster.

The coins are just the "MySpace" of the crypto world. But I wouldn't underestimate the passion in the community to keep building tech to propel it forward. There are massive sums of money in the game,  with some big names backing it.

It's just too early to tell what will happen in this space. 
But the whole of society is changing. The way people think,  the way they consume, and how they feel about archaic systems  (govt, banks),  even on employment. It's moving very fast. More then I have noticed before.

In saying that,  most of these coins are useless. I like ripple and its fast easy transactions. But I don't feel like any are "the one" just yet. But you just don't know.


----------



## SuperGlue

IBM is really into blockchain tech in a big way.

IBM And The Blockchain: What Big Blue Did in 2017
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/ibm-and-the-blockchain-what-big-blue-did-in-2017-cm897297

Will blockchain create less employment?
All signs are it will & only time will tell.


----------



## notting

Suprise, suprise -



*South Korean government officials have reportedly been caught insider trading. They sold their cryptocurrency holdings and profited just before the regulators announced crypto regulatory measures. The country’s Financial Supervisory Service is investigating the case. 
The Korean Public Service Ethics Act “strictly restricts the stock trading of public officials in order to prevent misuse of internal information,” Chosun pointed out. However, since cryptocurrency is currently not defined as a financial asset or currency, “there is no code of ethics and no code of conduct for virtual money investment in the FSS regulations.” However, “the misuse of internal information could  lead to punishment,” the publication added.*


----------



## mjim

DB8008 and other keeping aside the hype can anybody in simple term explain this:
as Omega said "...where is the value in the coin itself? (not the technology)?
For pure speculative trading it might be a great thing becasue of volatility , ok but what about reality
Unless everybody in supply chain uses crypto currency I can't see how the loop is completed this works?
I fear at some point somebody would be left with these coins and everybody who has soled then with $
If I am a coffee shop and start accepting Crypto currency unless ALL my expenses both for the coffee shop and for my personal life are met with Crypto I can't survive!  Please explain


----------



## mjim

DB008 said:


> Chadstone, Melbourne, VIC
> 
> View attachment 85792​



Name on machine AusCON... hahhhahha


----------



## DB008

​


----------



## moXJO

Tethers....


----------



## greggles

Bitcoin is making messy divorces even worse

Is it any surprise that people are using Bitcoin to hide assets, especially from estranged spouses. Just goes to show how cryptocurrencies are incrementally creeping further and further into everyday life.

How is the government going to get their piece of the pie?


----------



## Wysiwyg

Any capital gains must be declared. Broker records for evidence. There is no escaping death and taxes.


----------



## SuperGlue

Wysiwyg said:


> There is no escaping death and taxes.




You can run but you can't hide.

"Coinbase Tells 13,000 Users It's Sending Their Data to the IRS"
https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-tells-13000-users-its-sending-their-data-to-the-irs/


----------



## DB008

​


----------



## greggles

The U.S. Justice Department has opened a criminal probe into Bitcoin price manipulation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ion-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe

It is unsurprising that an unregulated market would be subject to price manipulation when even regulated markets are. However, I think it is inevitable that the government will seek to control and regulate cryptocurrencies. This probe is just another step along that path.


----------



## cynic

Backdoored cryptocurrencies!!

My, my, what a surprise! 

Who could have guessed that such a thing was even possible?

The inventors of soarcoins - perhaps!

The directors of Byte Power Party - perhaps not! 

https://www.itwire.com/security/83112-qld-firm-lost-us$6-6m-in-cryptocurrency-after-deal-soured.html


----------



## greggles

*Apple Bans Cryptocurrency Mining on All Devices*

http://www.kitco.com/news/2018-06-11/Apple-Bans-Cryptocurrency-Mining-On-All-Devices.html


----------



## greggles

Cryptocurrencies becoming more mainstream? Online retailer Overstock.com is launching its own ICO, the tZero token, through its subsidiary Tzero which has recently raised US$134 million. Overstock is cooperating with the SEC in relation to the ICO.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahh...tzero-raises-134-million-in-ico/#4e0cf85262cf


----------



## HelloU

cynic said:


> Backdoored cryptocurrencies!!
> 
> My, my, what a surprise!
> 
> Who could have guessed that such a thing was even possible?
> 
> The inventors of soarcoins - perhaps!
> 
> The directors of Byte Power Party - perhaps not!
> 
> https://www.itwire.com/security/83112-qld-firm-lost-us$6-6m-in-cryptocurrency-after-deal-soured.html




LOL........did you read the last paragraph.....
"Under a settlement reached by the two companies, Soar Labs will transfer its 49% stake in Byte Power Party to Byte Power Group, pay US$1.7 million *and also give Byte Power Group five million soarcoins."
*
I reckon Soar Labs would be a fantastic place to work....clearly full of jokers.




Wysiwyg said:


> Any capital gains must be declared. Broker records for evidence. There is no escaping death and taxes.




I get the point, but in the same way that door locks keep honest people out.......remember back when the ATO did not even know that you had done a trade in a tax year...unless you told them...or they had reason to go looking......(different now of course with triggers attached to ur TFN).....crypto is still sorta in the realms of the honesty box at the moment imo....if the ATO wants to go looking then maybe they can do the traces if they had the desire, time and resources........at a simplistic level even routing your traffic thru a VPN based in a non-data retention country allows you to access an awful lot of wallet and trade opportunities that are less than 'obviously' visible, a Tor network certainly adds much less traceability........if that is what u want. Which is why I avoid the whole thing.


----------



## Artist090

Personally, I'm investing in currencies that have a good technical background.
Ethereum - has a lot of technologies, Monero (it's a coin of the darknet, it will always live) and Emercoin - they develop blockchain for commercial companies. Personally, I'm interested in their
EmerDPO blockchain. Right now we are thinking about how to implement it in one of our products.
Anyway, it's your own choice how to play in investment games and how to choose which currency to invest


----------



## HelloU

My previous was concerning currency profit disclosures to the ATO......

In my mind a major difference between the currencies and the technology. Too often for me the terminology gets intertwined unnecessarily.....sorta like cannabis (synthetic cannabinoid) stocks getting painted with marijuana terminology.

More than happy to invest, and keep on investing in blockchain - many are start-up punts and will fail, but that is a function of start-ups, not of blockchain.

(more than happy if peeps make profits in currency)


----------



## mjim

my concern is not the technology but the snake oil marketing under the disguise of an ICO. SEC is cracking down on questionable ICOs  good on them,  
What is an IPO, "I give you money and you carry an enterprise for profit" and ICO is no diff at the end of the day I am still risking money but an ICO only requires a white paper comapred to the cost and scrutiny of an IPO , so a s a consumer I am not pleased that in open daylight regulator's are not clamping down on this. I asked one particular ICO which seems to have a real business in gaming industry behind it and the answers are always evasive


----------



## mjim

galumay said:


> The uber-libertarian fantasy of a world without lawyers, brokers and bankers just shows what a slim grip on reality they have.
> Obviously you have bought the hype from those promoting this massive ponzi, be prepared to be disappointed when the future is not quite as they wish it to be.



LOL  I agree specially the uber-libertarian fantasy... Next I dread to see unlicensed un insured UBER Hospitals, Aged care etc etc .. it is only an app!  
We already had a debacle of a New Super with ref to millennial oh what a great on boarding process  ooooh I am a millennial I dont care about real money risk or fees, I am just happy and orgasmic about the app itself . get on board get on board the rocket.... wake up people technology is one thing , smell the snake oil sales under the disguise of new technology ..


----------



## trading_rookie

A world first...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...300-million-resurrection-20180903-p501ip.html


----------



## noirua

*Argo Blockchain's Mike Edwards updates on progress since IPO*
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk...ards-updates-on-progress-since-ipo-10445.html


----------



## DB008

​


----------



## moXJO

Seem to have bounced off some lows on a few coins. Any news of a trigger?


----------



## Kaleb6

Initiative Q is an attempt by ex-PayPal guys to create a new payment system instead of credit cards that were designed in the 1950s. The system uses its own currency, the Q, and to get people to start using the system once it's ready they are allocating Qs for free to people that sign up now (the amount drops as more people join - so better to join early). Signing up is free and they only ask for your name and an email address. There's nothing to lose but if this payment system becomes a world leading payment method your Qs can be worth a lot. If you missed getting bitcoin seven years ago, you wouldn't want to miss this.

Here is my invite link: https://initiativeq.com/invite/rB2yBzpoQ

 This link will stop working once I’m out of invites. Let me know after you registered, because I need to verify you on my end.


----------



## SuperGlue

Kaleb6 said:


> Initiative Q is an attempt by ex-PayPal guys to create a new payment system instead of credit cards that were designed in the 1950s. The system uses its own currency, the Q, and to get people to start using the system once it's ready they are allocating Qs for free to people that sign up now (the amount drops as more people join - so better to join early). Signing up is free and they only ask for your name and an email address. There's nothing to lose but if this payment system becomes a world leading payment method your Qs can be worth a lot. If you missed getting bitcoin seven years ago, you wouldn't want to miss this.
> 
> Here is my invite link: https://initiativeq.com/invite/rB2yBzpoQ
> 
> This link will stop working once I’m out of invites. Let me know after you registered, because I need to verify you on my end.




Did a bit of search and registered.


----------



## DB008

DB008 said:


> These are the 2 leading brands of hardware wallets currently on the market -
> 
> Trezor - https://trezor.io/
> 
> Ledger Nano S - https://www.ledgerwallet.com/products/ledger-nano-s
> 
> I use both
> 
> Trezor just launched the Model T and the Trezor 2 is coming this year sometime




I made a typo in the above - Trezor model T and Model 2 are one and the same.

Ledger has just launched the Ledger Nano X - it is in pre order status at the moment.

​



https://www.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-x​
*Features*​
*State-of-the-art Security*
The Ledger Nano X offers state-of-the-art security: your private keys are safely isolated inside the device’s certified secure element (CC EAL5+), the same chip used in highly secure applications such as credit cards and passports.

*Easy backup*
Your crypto assets stay safe even if you lose your device. Simply use the 24-word recovery phrase provided during the initialization of your device to restore your accounts on any Ledger device.

*Simplicity*
We designed the Ledger Nano X to be as intuitive as possible: 2 buttons, 1 screen, that’s all you need to control your device. Easily manage your transactions from your smartphone or computer with our Ledger Live PC & Mobile apps.

*Mobility*
The Ledger Nano X is bluetooth® enabled. Connect it to your smartphone with Ledger Live Mobile app and safely transact anywhere. All Bluetooth communications are encrypted end-to-end to protect against any security threat.

*Multicurrency*
The Ledger Nano X can store up to 100 applications at the same time, including Bitcoin, Ethereum, XRP and many more. Manage all your assets on the same device, at the same time.


My opinion - l'm not too sure if Bluetooth is a good idea. Broadcasting anything can be intercepted and interfered with - like changing a address that you are sending crypto to


----------



## Fxortrader

As the first unit, this Bitcoin ATM is now available on Rixos Premium, a five-star hotel in the center of Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR), Dubai. This location is very famous for some of the best tourist attractions in Dubai, such as the Dubai Eye, Dubai Marina Mall, and Mall of the Emirates.

With the enthusiasm of the community to welcome the presence of this Bitcoin ATM, it is estimated that Amhora will soon launch several more ATM units in other strategic locations soon.


----------



## noirua

Blockchain Technology Stocks: 10 Biggest Companies in 2022
					

The blockchain technology sector has experienced notable growth over the past few years. Although 2022 has been a turbulent year for the market,  investors are beginning to learn to live with the volatility of blockchain technology stocks. As Boston Consulting Group’s Zia Yusuf notes in...




					investingnews.com


----------



## DB008

*SEC Charges Ripple and Two Executives with Conducting $1.3 Billion Unregistered Securities Offering*​
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE​​2020-338​​Washington D.C., Dec. 22, 2020 —​​The Securities and Exchange Commission announced today that it has filed an action against Ripple Labs Inc. and two of its executives, who are also significant security holders, alleging that they raised over $1.3 billion through an unregistered, ongoing digital asset securities offering.​According to the SEC's complaint, Ripple; Christian Larsen, the company's co-founder, executive chairman of its board, and former CEO; and Bradley Garlinghouse, the company's current CEO, raised capital to finance the company's business. The complaint alleges that Ripple raised funds, beginning in 2013, through the sale of digital assets known as XRP in an unregistered securities offering to investors in the U.S. and worldwide. Ripple also allegedly distributed billions of XRP in exchange for non-cash consideration, such as labor and market-making services. According to the complaint, in addition to structuring and promoting the XRP sales used to finance the company's business, Larsen and Garlinghouse also effected personal unregistered sales of XRP totaling approximately $600 million. The complaint alleges that the defendants failed to register their offers and sales of XRP or satisfy any exemption from registration, in violation of the registration provisions of the federal securities laws.​​"Issuers seeking the benefits of a public offering, including access to retail investors, broad distribution and a secondary trading market, must comply with the federal securities laws that require registration of offerings unless an exemption from registration applies," said Stephanie Avakian, Director of the SEC's Enforcement Division. "We allege that Ripple, Larsen, and Garlinghouse failed to register their ongoing offer and sale of billions of XRP to retail investors, which deprived potential purchasers of adequate disclosures about XRP and Ripple's business and other important long-standing protections that are fundamental to our robust public market system."​​"The registration requirements are designed to ensure that potential investors – including, importantly, retail investors – receive important information about an issuer's business operations and financial condition," said Marc P. Berger, Deputy Director of the SEC's Enforcement Division. "Here, we allege that Ripple and its executives failed over a period of years to satisfy these core investor protection provisions, and as a result investors lacked information to which they were entitled."​​The SEC's complaint, filed today in federal district court in Manhattan, charges defendants with violating the registration provisions of the Securities Act of 1933, and seeks injunctive relief, disgorgement with prejudgment interest, and civil penalties.​​The SEC's investigation was conducted by Daphna A. Waxman, Jon A. Daniels, and John O. Enright of the SEC's Cyber Unit. The case is being supervised by Kristina Littman, Chief of the SEC Enforcement Division's Cyber Unit. The SEC's litigation will be conducted by Jorge G. Tenreiro, Dugan Bliss, Ms. Waxman, and Mr. Daniels, and supervised by Preethi Krishnamurthy.​



https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-338



.​


----------



## noirua

Bitcoin Becomes Most-Crowded Trade After Passing 'Long Tech': Bank of America Survey
					

Bank of America's January survey of fund managers indicated bitcoin is now seeing the most capital inflow.




					www.coindesk.com


----------



## noirua

Argo Blockchain (LSE: ARB), a global leader in cryptocurrency mining, is pleased to announce it has signed the Crypto Climate Accord (CCA) in partnership with DMG Blockchain Solutions (DMG), the blockchain and cryptocurrency technology company, to promote the decarbonisation of the cryptocurrency industry.




__





						London Stock Exchange | London Stock Exchange
					

null




					www.londonstockexchange.com


----------



## noirua

New Bill in Spain Seeks To Enable Crypto-Based Mortgages - The Daily Hodl
					

Lawmakers in Spain are proposing a new law that would allow homeowners to pay their mortgages using cryptocurrency.




					dailyhodl.com


----------



## noirua

Bitcoin, Ethereum and These Three Altcoins Have Huge Potential As Crypto Markets Heat Up: Altcoin Daily​








						Bitcoin, Ethereum and These Three Altcoins Have Huge Potential As Crypto Markets Heat Up: Altcoin Daily - The Daily Hodl
					

Altcoin Daily host Aaron Arnold is sharing why he is bullish on Bitcoin and Ethereum heading into the rest of the year, and he's also highlighting the potential of three altcoins.




					dailyhodl.com


----------



## finicky

Flow chart


----------



## e_abrams

So China banned Bitcoin. Again.
Together with all other cryptos, as well as any companies that offer anything crypto-related. And they're threatening to investigate their employees. This is all very depressing.


----------



## qldfrog

I sold out of most of my crypto yesterday..took my profit and just kept .1 BTC from memory....
and just saw BTC already up 49k USD...ah well US share market is crashing so may not keep up that long🥴


----------



## qldfrog

One of the reasons
https://www.smh.com.au/business/ban...-the-2-8tr-crypto-market-20211004-p58wzu.html


----------



## againsthegrain

qldfrog said:


> One of the reasons
> https://www.smh.com.au/business/ban...-the-2-8tr-crypto-market-20211004-p58wzu.html




It's suprising with this kind of news hovering around for a while now from multiple sources/places price is not falling.

If similar news was announced on a stock on a th everybody would dump.

But I guess crypto yolo hodl diamond hands etc

If the rest of the world follows China and bans crypto it will literally be useless


----------



## qldfrog

againsthegrain said:


> It's suprising with this kind of news hovering around for a while now from multiple sources/places price is not falling.
> 
> If similar news was announced on a stock on a th everybody would dump.
> 
> But I guess crypto yolo hodl diamond hands etc
> 
> If the rest of the world follows China and bans crypto it will literally be useless



having witnessed first hand the amount of money in China, and the will of that money to escape rigged market/exchange rates, I believe the China ban impact  is greatly underestimated.
And in china, you do not play full with these laws so within a year anyone with crypto will have offloaded or end up in a bullet in the head...and that is the dignified way


----------



## againsthegrain

Suprised to see that other cryptos are not following btc as closely as in the past xrp and ada pretty flat this leg up usually they pretty much mirror btc.

On a interesting note shiba inu going pretty crazy,  apparently related to Musk posting a picture of his new dog which happens to be a shiba...  nice to see my 1k worth 870 after sitting on $200 for months 😂


----------



## e_abrams

Wait, did Musk really do that? Or you're just joking? With Musk I can never tell. 😅


----------



## noirua

Countries such as El Salvador and Brazil are now embracing Bitcoin. So it looks as if more countries that are in some sort of trouble may see a way out here.  If countries add their own mining capacity that may mean the mining difficulty will increase. 
China must have a plan or have they?  Perhaps their own digital plan is for the government to just issue more coins from time to time and save having to mine them.  That may work but no doubt it could all backfire if America has its own plan.


----------



## moXJO

noirua said:


> Countries such as El Salvador and Brazil are now embracing Bitcoin. So it looks as if more countries that are in some sort of trouble may see a way out here.  If countries add their own mining capacity that may mean the mining difficulty will increase.
> China must have a plan or have they?  Perhaps their own digital plan is for the government to just issue more coins from time to time and save having to mine them.  That may work but no doubt it could all backfire if America has its own plan.



China is busy hacking Google Chrome and stealing coins instead. Also delete Google Chrome as it's vulnerable.


----------



## Dark1975

Btc looks to have crack through the 50ema and looks strong , its btc dominance is 44.8% 
As btc dominance will ease the alts will run..rinse / repeat 
With the low interest rates / inflation issues, and hedging on crypto to have a bumper q4 period , likely to have a crash at the end.
But time to ride the wave of parabolic alt run .
Likely to see a flash crash near term with fud on China and America debt ceiling, tho after that a epic q4 
I'm bullish compared to the narrative


----------



## againsthegrain

Dark1975 said:


> Btc looks to have crack through the 50ema and looks strong , its btc dominance is 44.8%
> As btc dominance will ease the alts will run..rinse / repeat
> With the low interest rates / inflation issues, and hedging on crypto to have a bumper q4 period , likely to have a crash at the end.
> But time to ride the wave of parabolic alt run .
> Likely to see a flash crash near term with fud on China and America debt ceiling, tho after that a epic q4
> I'm bullish compared to the narrative



exactly right, xrp is just catching up.  Same game up and down,  with everything happening with btc its def not a long term hold trade the sht out of it


----------



## againsthegrain

got a email from binance it says they will start trading shiba tonight at 9, a nice little pump would be a cherry


----------



## noirua

Pendulum – Medium
					

Read writing from Pendulum on Medium. Traditional finance infrastructure blockchain. The missing link between fiat and DeFi. Limitless fiat. Decentralized future.




					pendulum-chain.medium.com
				












						SatoshiPay – Medium
					

Read writing from SatoshiPay on Medium. Connecting the world through instant payments. Every day, SatoshiPay and thousands of other voices read, write, and share important stories on Medium.




					satoshipay.medium.com
				











						Blue Star Capital investee SatoshiPay inks money transfer deal with German bank
					

SatoshiPay has signed the agreement with Bankhaus von der Heydt to integrate the bank’s fully-compliant euro-backed stablecoin into its...



					www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk


----------



## noirua

London-listed Blue Star Capital LSE: BLU, which makes investments within the esports, payments, technology sectors, said the funds will be used to continue the development of Pendulum. Blue Star holds an interest in Pendulum through its existing 31% equity interest in SatoshiPay. Https://bluestarcapital.co.uk/ - https://twitter.com/bluestarcap?lang=en
VOX Markets: Https://www.voxmarkets.co.uk/articles/derek-lew-of-blue-star-capital-interviews-meinhard-benn-ceo-of-satoshi-pay--3540635/

Pendulum is the link between Fiat and DeFi
Https://pendulum-chain.medium.com/introducing-pendulum-smart-blockchain-connecting-fiat-and-defi-6d2dc06e7055

Over the past two years, the Decentralized Finance (DeFi) ecosystem has grown exponentially and shows no signs of slowing down. There’s now a Total Value Locked of some $80 billion and a Cambrian explosion of innovative DeFi products — from decentralized investment protocols, prediction markets, and crypto lending to yield farming and liquidity pools for crowdsourced market making.

SatosihPay’s Pendulum network is an open-source blockchain that aims to establish the missing link between fiat and the DeFi ecosystems through a smart contract network.

Pendulum is being built around two large blockchain ecosystems, Stellar and Polkadot. As such, SatoshiPay expects to become involved in an increasing number of opportunities within the decentralised finance space, a market which is currently estimated at $100 billion.

It is intended that Pendulum will connect DeFi to the foreign exchange market, building automated market makers (AMMs) to introduce scalable liquidity pools for fiat currencies, and create yield earning opportunities for fiat token holders.

SatoshiPay = Founding member Federal German Blockchain Association =
connects the world through instant payments, Satoshi’s blockchain-powered payment solutions send money in seconds ensuring a seamless experience for both sender and recipient. Https://satoshipay.io/about
https://twitter.com/satoshipay
https://twitter.com/pendulum_chain?lang=en

SatoshiPay is a digital payments company that uses blockchain to offer payment services in three areas – micro-payments, digital wallets and business to business (B2B) cross border payments.

Micro-payments represent a growing market segment. These are transactions that can be as low as a few cents, and are often uneconomical using conventional payment technologies. Applications include online publishing (pay per view), gaming, and consumer reward programmes. The SatoshiPay platform offers instant end-to-end payments at a level of commission that makes payments viable for merchants and customers. SatoshiPay has commercial partnerships in place with online publishers such as Axel Springer and Börsenmedien.

Digital wallets are a mechanism allowing consumers to make payments using their mobile or desktop device. The Solar wallet from SatoshiPay, powered by the Stellar Network, has more than 25k instalments in 40 countries. It is recommended by the Stellar Development Foundation, which coordinates the Stellar network.

----

Pendulum has raised $5 million for its further development by the private sale of PEN tokens. The directors of the Company have been advised that the funding allows for SatoshiPay to be contractually retained to continue to develop Pendulum.

How Pendulum Works
Open source blockchain based on Substrate
Pendulum will be built on the open-source blockchain framework Substrate developed by Parity. Substrate is a battle-tested framework (most notably, Polkadot is based on it), which makes it easier for third-party developers to write their own apps and smart contracts on Pendulum. By building on a community-based framework, it also becomes easier to connect with other chains and protocols.
Bridges between Stellar, Ethereum, and Polkadot.

The Pendulum-Stellar bridge will be a custom-built bridge service that operates through a decentralized network of bridge relayer nodes. These nodes monitor the networks, hold and release tokens, and mirror the assets between the Stellar and the Pendulum networks. The bridges to the Ethereum and Polkadot ecosystems will be based on third-party technologies.

The Stellar Development Foundation recognizes the importance of interoperability and bridges between networks. SatoshiPay received a research and development grant from the SDF to develop the prototype of the Pendulum protocol. Our team is now close to completing the prototype with a Stellar-Pendulum bridge and support for AMM functionality.


----------



## noirua

noirua said:


> London-listed Blue Star Capital LSE: BLU, which makes investments within the esports, payments, technology sectors, said the funds will be used to continue the development of Pendulum. Blue Star holds an interest in Pendulum through its existing 31% equity interest in SatoshiPay. Https://bluestarcapital.co.uk/ - https://twitter.com/bluestarcap?lang=en
> VOX Markets: Https://www.voxmarkets.co.uk/articles/derek-lew-of-blue-star-capital-interviews-meinhard-benn-ceo-of-satoshi-pay--3540635/
> 
> Pendulum is the link between Fiat and DeFi
> Https://pendulum-chain.medium.com/introducing-pendulum-smart-blockchain-connecting-fiat-and-defi-6d2dc06e7055
> 
> Over the past two years, the Decentralized Finance (DeFi) ecosystem has grown exponentially and shows no signs of slowing down. There’s now a Total Value Locked of some $80 billion and a Cambrian explosion of innovative DeFi products — from decentralized investment protocols, prediction markets, and crypto lending to yield farming and liquidity pools for crowdsourced market making.
> 
> SatosihPay’s Pendulum network is an open-source blockchain that aims to establish the missing link between fiat and the DeFi ecosystems through a smart contract network.
> 
> Pendulum is being built around two large blockchain ecosystems, Stellar and Polkadot. As such, SatoshiPay expects to become involved in an increasing number of opportunities within the decentralised finance space, a market which is currently estimated at $100 billion.
> 
> It is intended that Pendulum will connect DeFi to the foreign exchange market, building automated market makers (AMMs) to introduce scalable liquidity pools for fiat currencies, and create yield earning opportunities for fiat token holders.
> 
> SatoshiPay = Founding member Federal German Blockchain Association =
> connects the world through instant payments, Satoshi’s blockchain-powered payment solutions send money in seconds ensuring a seamless experience for both sender and recipient. Https://satoshipay.io/about
> https://twitter.com/satoshipay
> https://twitter.com/pendulum_chain?lang=en
> 
> SatoshiPay is a digital payments company that uses blockchain to offer payment services in three areas – micro-payments, digital wallets and business to business (B2B) cross border payments.
> 
> Micro-payments represent a growing market segment. These are transactions that can be as low as a few cents, and are often uneconomical using conventional payment technologies. Applications include online publishing (pay per view), gaming, and consumer reward programmes. The SatoshiPay platform offers instant end-to-end payments at a level of commission that makes payments viable for merchants and customers. SatoshiPay has commercial partnerships in place with online publishers such as Axel Springer and Börsenmedien.
> 
> Digital wallets are a mechanism allowing consumers to make payments using their mobile or desktop device. The Solar wallet from SatoshiPay, powered by the Stellar Network, has more than 25k instalments in 40 countries. It is recommended by the Stellar Development Foundation, which coordinates the Stellar network.
> 
> ----
> 
> Pendulum has raised $5 million for its further development by the private sale of PEN tokens. The directors of the Company have been advised that the funding allows for SatoshiPay to be contractually retained to continue to develop Pendulum.
> 
> How Pendulum Works
> Open source blockchain based on Substrate
> Pendulum will be built on the open-source blockchain framework Substrate developed by Parity. Substrate is a battle-tested framework (most notably, Polkadot is based on it), which makes it easier for third-party developers to write their own apps and smart contracts on Pendulum. By building on a community-based framework, it also becomes easier to connect with other chains and protocols.
> Bridges between Stellar, Ethereum, and Polkadot.
> 
> The Pendulum-Stellar bridge will be a custom-built bridge service that operates through a decentralized network of bridge relayer nodes. These nodes monitor the networks, hold and release tokens, and mirror the assets between the Stellar and the Pendulum networks. The bridges to the Ethereum and Polkadot ecosystems will be based on third-party technologies.
> 
> The Stellar Development Foundation recognizes the importance of interoperability and bridges between networks. SatoshiPay received a research and development grant from the SDF to develop the prototype of the Pendulum protocol. Our team is now close to completing the prototype with a Stellar-Pendulum bridge and support for AMM functionality.




Stellar Development Foundation
Pendulum is an open-source blockchain that aims to establish the missing link between the fiat and the DeFi ecosystems through a sophisticated smart contract network. 
https://www.stellar.org/ 
https://www.stellar.org/case-studies/... 
https://satoshipay.io/


----------



## So_Cynical

I reckon a massive part of the near future is going to be the DAO phenomenon.


----------



## noirua

I should add that Blue Star Capital LSE: BLU is an AIM UK quoted share and is an investment company and not directly involved with the running of its interests. BLU does provide cash to support some of the interests. The share is highly volatile and involves Market Makers on AIM so the spread between buy and sell can be 1% up to 10% so be aware.

*** This post and previous posts are not a recommendation to buy Blue Star Capital BLU in anyway whatsoever - as always do your own research. Pendulum is an unquoted interest of BLU. ***

I hold an interest in Blue Star Capital LSE: BLU and a holding in an interest of BLU LSE: GILD.


----------



## noirua

Explanation by poster ragnarr on ADVFN:


As this (for me) is all about Pendulum/Satoshipay/dtransfer I concentrated on the main parts of the jigsaw that matter.

Firstly Bitcoin, whilst it is irrelevant here it is important to note the difference between Bitcoin and Ethereum. Invented by Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin was first (and now biggest) online currency launched in 2009 and importantly it is based on a permission less blockchain.

In normal speak this simply means that no permission is required to become part of the blockchain so in theory anyone can become part of the blockchain which means it is completely open and de-centralised. But with the success of Bitcoin the big brains soon realised that actually, for the concept to evolve you would need more control and privacy. Enter Ethereum.

Etherum was designed by another genius, Vitalik Buterin who realised back in 2013 that this new Blockchain technology could be used for far more financial applications than bitcoin by creating a permission less and permissioned Blockchain in one, thereby having all the advantages of Bitcoin blockchain but also allowing permission (or private) blockchains where the owner can control who sees what

This is very important as institutions like financial institutions require privacy and this has opened up the Ethereum blockchain to the whole world of Defi.

But technology keeps moving on, as the blockchain grows the network needs to continually be split or sharded into more portions to be able to scale. This is apparently complex.
Enter Polkadot

Polkadot blockchain is the Brainchild of Gavin Wood, Co-founder of Ethereum who set out to develop a ‘sharded’ version of Ethereum whilst still at Ethereum in 2013. There is a huge amount of technical stuff, disputes, stuck funds and all sorts of goings on during the development, but for this purpose the important thing is that Wood went on to Co-found EthCore which later became Parity and Polkadot blockchain was launched. Polkadot is able to scale/shard far more efficiently than Ethereum because it is built on a framework developed by parity called substrate (same as Pendulum)
There is no point in me trying to explain Substrate as my brain is simply not big enough but it is apparently good, very good and has become the go to framework. To give some idea back in 2018 Gavin wood gave a live demo where he built a blockchain and dApp from scratch in 15 minutes.

This is where Nodes come in because nodes are the problem for Ethereum scaling. Nodes are basically computers that connect and support the network validating transactions and there are thousands of them. For a blockchain to expand, these nodes need to store and process huge amounts of data/stuff and apparently this is where Ethereum design falls short.

Enter Para chains (got there in the end). The flexibility of the Polkadot blockchain solves this scaling problem by allowing multiple sizable blockchains (Para chains) to connect to the main blockchain. And these only need to utilise the nodes/computers on that on that chain. This means that it allows numerous independent transactions to be actioned at the same time without blocking up the other chains nodes.

As things have stood Defi applications have been tied to the relevant blockchains. If you wanted to use Solana for a transaction based on Ethereum – you couldn't. Each blockchain token is stuck on that blockchain. Polkadot is different as any blockchain can plug in as a Para chain, thus enabling previously isolated blockchains to connect and do business. This is basically known as web3.

So these Para chains are custom blockchains built and designed for various projects and applications, and integrated on the Polkadot main blockchain which is called the Relay chain.

For example Acala were the first Para chain. Acala is a platform that enables you to swap assets from other blockchains (say Solana to Ethereum). And Pendulum will enable defi transactions to be exchanged from other blockchain crypto assets into Fiat assets simultaneously (which is currently a complicated and expensive process) which opens up FOREX for the first time.

The other huge advantage of this technology is that all the Para chains benefit from Polka dots base features and security without having to set their own, but the applications are still independent which enables transactions to perform faster and at lower costs as they are not go through the rest of the blockchain (as with Ethereum) and importantly they are private.​​


----------



## noirua

noirua said:


> Explanation by poster ragnarr on ADVFN:
> 
> 
> As this (for me) is all about Pendulum/Satoshipay/dtransfer I concentrated on the main parts of the jigsaw that matter.
> 
> Firstly Bitcoin, whilst it is irrelevant here it is important to note the difference between Bitcoin and Ethereum. Invented by Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin was first (and now biggest) online currency launched in 2009 and importantly it is based on a permission less blockchain.
> 
> In normal speak this simply means that no permission is required to become part of the blockchain so in theory anyone can become part of the blockchain which means it is completely open and de-centralised. But with the success of Bitcoin the big brains soon realised that actually, for the concept to evolve you would need more control and privacy. Enter Ethereum.
> 
> Etherum was designed by another genius, Vitalik Buterin who realised back in 2013 that this new Blockchain technology could be used for far more financial applications than bitcoin by creating a permission less and permissioned Blockchain in one, thereby having all the advantages of Bitcoin blockchain but also allowing permission (or private) blockchains where the owner can control who sees what
> 
> This is very important as institutions like financial institutions require privacy and this has opened up the Ethereum blockchain to the whole world of Defi.
> 
> But technology keeps moving on, as the blockchain grows the network needs to continually be split or sharded into more portions to be able to scale. This is apparently complex.
> Enter Polkadot
> 
> Polkadot blockchain is the Brainchild of Gavin Wood, Co-founder of Ethereum who set out to develop a ‘sharded’ version of Ethereum whilst still at Ethereum in 2013. There is a huge amount of technical stuff, disputes, stuck funds and all sorts of goings on during the development, but for this purpose the important thing is that Wood went on to Co-found EthCore which later became Parity and Polkadot blockchain was launched. Polkadot is able to scale/shard far more efficiently than Ethereum because it is built on a framework developed by parity called substrate (same as Pendulum)
> There is no point in me trying to explain Substrate as my brain is simply not big enough but it is apparently good, very good and has become the go to framework. To give some idea back in 2018 Gavin wood gave a live demo where he built a blockchain and dApp from scratch in 15 minutes.
> 
> This is where Nodes come in because nodes are the problem for Ethereum scaling. Nodes are basically computers that connect and support the network validating transactions and there are thousands of them. For a blockchain to expand, these nodes need to store and process huge amounts of data/stuff and apparently this is where Ethereum design falls short.
> 
> Enter Para chains (got there in the end). The flexibility of the Polkadot blockchain solves this scaling problem by allowing multiple sizable blockchains (Para chains) to connect to the main blockchain. And these only need to utilise the nodes/computers on that on that chain. This means that it allows numerous independent transactions to be actioned at the same time without blocking up the other chains nodes.
> 
> As things have stood Defi applications have been tied to the relevant blockchains. If you wanted to use Solana for a transaction based on Ethereum – you couldn't. Each blockchain token is stuck on that blockchain. Polkadot is different as any blockchain can plug in as a Para chain, thus enabling previously isolated blockchains to connect and do business. This is basically known as web3.
> 
> So these Para chains are custom blockchains built and designed for various projects and applications, and integrated on the Polkadot main blockchain which is called the Relay chain.
> 
> For example Acala were the first Para chain. Acala is a platform that enables you to swap assets from other blockchains (say Solana to Ethereum). And Pendulum will enable defi transactions to be exchanged from other blockchain crypto assets into Fiat assets simultaneously (which is currently a complicated and expensive process) which opens up FOREX for the first time.
> 
> The other huge advantage of this technology is that all the Para chains benefit from Polka dots base features and security without having to set their own, but the applications are still independent which enables transactions to perform faster and at lower costs as they are not go through the rest of the blockchain (as with Ethereum) and importantly they are private.​​











						Smart Contracts on Stellar - SDF Blog
					






					stellar.org


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## noirua




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## wayneL

I am getting a very uncomfortable about the blockchain. Instead of our saviour I am increasingly starting to think that it is our demise.


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## moXJO

wayneL said:


> I am getting a very uncomfortable about the blockchain. Instead of our saviour I am increasingly starting to think that it is our demise.




It's a big danger the way it's going. Every transaction is recorded, so it's an authoritarian paradise.

Government control over money at that level would be nightmarish.


CBDCs are already here. It will make trade easier. But I suspect the greater intention is to pop the US dollars stranglehold.

Next 10 years are the flip to the new world order of things. Some great profit potentials, but also some huge hits to standard of living.


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## noirua

Bear market will last until crypto apps are actually useful: Mark Cuban
					

Cuban thinks a consolidation of the industry will also happen eventually, with blockchains merging to increase their user base to generate better ideas.




					cointelegraph.com


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## noirua

Binance to Acquire FTX in a ‘Full Acquisition’ Deal
					

In a seemingly surprising turn of events, Binance CEO Changpeng Zhao (popularly called CZ) announced that Binance has signed a non-binding letter of intent (LOI) intended to fully acquire competitor crypto exchange FTX. He said Binance would be conducting full due diligence (DD) in the coming...




					www.securities.io


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## noirua




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## mullokintyre

The ASX has surprisingly cancelled its project to move the ASX to a distributed ledger system.
From Coindesk


> The Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) has cancelled its much-delayed blockchain replacement to its aged Clearing House Electronic Subregister System (CHESS).
> The ASX said the decision has been taken "in light of the solution uncertainty" and will incur a charge of AUD $250 million ($168 million) in a statement Thursday.
> A report by consultancy Accenture identified "significant challenges" with the the design of the blockchain system, such as uncertainty over how ASX requirements interact with the application and underlying ledger.



250 mill down the drain. That is a level of write off normally associated with one of the tiers of government.
Mick


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## JohnDe

mullokintyre said:


> The ASX has surprisingly cancelled its project to move the ASX to a distributed ledger system.
> From Coindesk
> 
> 250 mill down the drain. That is a level of write off normally associated with one of the tiers of government.
> Mick




Six years & the first exchange to attempt the project, warning bells went off a long time. And to think that people received performance bonuses. Ridiculous!


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## The Triangle

JohnDe said:


> Six years & the first exchange to attempt the project, warning bells went off a long time. And to think that people received performance bonuses. Ridiculous!



ASX won't be the last to write off hundreds of millions if not billions on failed pie in the sky blockchain projects.   I think a lot of old white men across the western world have been sold (conned?) the dream of a business functioning on blockchain without any actual understanding of how or why it will work and be better.    The world needs to stop f-ing around wasting time, money, and energy on this crypto blockchain 💩.

Funny that most articles don't say Peter Hiom who was looking after the ASX blockchain junk several years ago now works for Motive Partners - which was founded by the woman who... well I'll let you read the rest and form your own conclusion.  












						‘Highly unlikely’: ASX exec rules out further delays for blockchain project
					

The executive now responsible for the highly anticipated CHESS replacement system says it would take a major crisis for it to miss its 2023 deadline




					www.smh.com.au
				




Oh and that didn't age well did it...


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## Dona Ferentes

mullokintyre said:


> The ASX has surprisingly cancelled its project to move the ASX to a distributed ledger system
> 
> 250 mill down the drain. That is a level of write off normally associated with one of the tiers of government.



Plus compensation for the costs incurred by brokers that had to develop upgrades alongside as test models were released (prematurely). perhaps *another hundred million*


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