# Importing Chinese goods



## rumpole (29 May 2012)

Are the Chinese sabotaging our army OR these boots were made for falling apart

When are we going to wake up that Chinese goods are rubbish and it's time to start redeveloping our manufacturing industry?
===================================================

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-29/army-boots-fall-apart-in-hot-weather/4038572?WT.svl=news2

Army parade boots falling apart in hot weather

Updated May 29, 2012 06:43:47
The problems began in 2008 when a Chinese company won a tender to make the boots (file photo). Photo: The problems began in 2008 when a Chinese company won a tender to make the boots. (ADF: Sgt Rachel Ingram, file photo)
Map: Australia

The Australian Defence Force has admitted the rubber soles are falling off the Chinese-made dress boots that soldiers are expected to wear for official parades.

Defence officials have told Senate estimates the problems began in 2008 when the tender to make the boots was won by a Chinese company.

Defence had sent the boots back to the manufacturer for extra stitching and nails to try and hold them together.

But officials say the glue is still failing in hot conditions.

Senator Ian Macdonald told estimates he witnessed a number of boot malfunctions at a parade in Townsville this month.

"I say in jest but seriously this parade the other day was a shortish distance as far as parades go and I do fear that if it had been for the normal length of the Anzac parade, no-one would have had shoes on at the end of it," he said.

ADF Chief General David Hurley said he had encountered similar scenes in Darwin.

"I think we've identified a trend," he said.

"[We need to] work to get a better solution because we agree completely, it's unacceptable for our soldiers to be walking around with boots that the soles fall off."


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## Glen48 (29 May 2012)

They should know by now the Chinese will do any thing to cut corners as a few other companies have found out.
Remember the milk scandal were a chemical used in Melamine was added.
 They shot the CEO's
Still the feds are known to go for the cheapest quote due to lack of knowledge gained from dealing in the real world.

http://www.who-sucks.com/business/made-in-china-2007-danger-timeline


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## rumpole (29 May 2012)

Glen48 said:


> They should know by now the Chinese will do any thing to cut corners as a few other companies have found out.
> Remember the milk scandal were a chemical used in Melamine was added.
> They shot the CEO's
> Still the feds are known to go for the cheapest quote due to lack of knowledge gained from dealing in the real world.
> ...




I hope the Navy doesn't get our new submarines made there


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## Glen48 (29 May 2012)

Even the Greeks are complaining the Chinese are undercutting their sex toys  business with cheap imports.
The Greeks screwed themselves now the Chinese are doing it as well.
Time they pulled out and hardened up to the real life not expecting a leg up all the time.
Maybe branched out in to **** fighting to get the tourist in.


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

Lol, thats quite funny actually. Good thing it wasn't their combat boots though.

Chinese manufacturers are notorious for cutting corners. They don't see far enough ahead to understand 'repeat customer'. They've been just keeping up with demand for an entire generation......now they must compete for cost and quality. 

Many businesses in china today are closing, they cannot compete once demand had been tightened. There will be a quality revolution in china very soon, just as there was in Japan, and north america.

CanOz


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## prawn_86 (29 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> Many businesses in china today are closing, they cannot compete once demand had been tightened. There will be a quality revolution in china very soon, just as there was in Japan, and north america.




Yes as i work with a lot of importers, many of my clients have been moving their purchasing from China to Vietnam (cheaper), or back to Europe and the USA (better quality)


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## numbercruncher (29 May 2012)

I do some work for the Qld gov at times in extreme environments and all my supplied PPE is Australian made , awesome quality. So maybe its a Federal level thing where they are more cost focussed ? 

I wonder if the ADF combat issue is perhaps much better quality Australian or better made ? I guess being a parade boot they dont have the same safety or performance concerns in the purchasing process. Clearly a screw up though - Buy cheap buy twice they say- Maybe sack/demote their purchasing and procurement officer and replace him with a hotshot straight out of Uni thats armed with the latest best practices !


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## Gringotts Bank (29 May 2012)

Products made in the US are #1 for quality.


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> Maybe sack/demote their purchasing and procurement officer and replace him with a hotshot straight out of Uni thats armed with the latest best practices !




LOL, you never know...maybe the purchasing officer was doing business the Chinese way and got a kickback :bayer: from the manufacturer! 

CanOz


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## Starcraftmazter (29 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Products made in the US are #1 for quality.




I would say second to....Germany, Japan, Korea and Taiwan.


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## prawn_86 (29 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Products made in the US are #1 for quality.






Starcraftmazter said:


> I would say second to....Germany, Japan, Korea and Taiwan.




I dont think you can generalize. It depends on the product and the expertise of the companies and the countries


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> I would say second to....Germany, Japan, Korea and Taiwan.




With globalization its sort of hard to call it apples and apples now. Some US packaging equipment is tough as nails but some of the German stuff is tough, long lasting and very precise as well. Its totally dependent on the type of goods.

One thing is for sure, all of these countries know that quality is EXPECTED, and they don't take short cuts because they understand 'repeat customer'.

CanOz


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## Starcraftmazter (29 May 2012)

I don't disagree with the above. Almost nothing I have is made in China, 99% of things are made in those 5 countries.


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Almost nothing I have is made in China




LOL! i would like to see this. You have a desktop PC or a laptop, or an Apple product? You drive a car with anti lock brakes, ignition?

You have no idea how much stuff is made in China do you young fella?

CanOz


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## prawn_86 (29 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> LOL! i would like to see this. You have a desktop PC or a laptop, or an Apple product? You drive a car with anti lock brakes, ignition?
> 
> You have no idea how much stuff is made in China do you young fella?
> 
> CanOz




Yeh cant say i know of much clothing made in those 5 countries, and clothing would contribute more than 1% of what i own. Maybe SCM is a nudist...


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## Starcraftmazter (29 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> LOL! i would like to see this. You have a desktop PC or a laptop, or an Apple product? You drive a car with anti lock brakes, ignition?




Don't have a car or laptop. Hate Apple. I build all my PCs myself from high quality components.



CanOz said:


> You have no idea how much stuff is made in China do you young fella?




You have no idea what sort of stuff I have.



prawn_86 said:


> Yeh cant say i know of much clothing made in those 5 countries, and clothing would contribute more than 1% of what i own. Maybe SCM is a nudist...




Nudist? I'm a guy, it's been years since I bought cloths.


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## moXJO (29 May 2012)

When I was in the army back in the late 90's we had combat knives that we were told not to stick into anything as the tip will break off, and the wire cutters on the knife also not to use as they would break. I seem to remember a few issues with gear. Some of the clothes had lasted though. Someone was issued with pants which had a name and 1970 written in them. More likely saw more $hit, blood and tears then the person that was now wearing them.


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Yeh cant say i know of much clothing made in those 5 countries, and clothing would contribute more than 1% of what i own. Maybe SCM is a nudist...




Exactly, not to mention mobile phones, white goods, building materials, vegetables, and on and on...

China is still the world's factory.

CanOz


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## prawn_86 (29 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Nudist? I'm a guy, it's been years since I bought cloths.




Yes but you still own them. In fact if you bought them years ago its more likely they were made in China, as it is only in the last year or so that a lot of suppliers started switching elsewhere


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Yes but you still own them. In fact if you bought them years ago its more likely they were made in China, as it is only in the last year or so that a lot of suppliers started switching elsewhere




LOL, give it up Prawn...its like posting to a wall.

CanOz


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## prawn_86 (29 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> LOL, give it up Prawn...its like posting to a wall.
> 
> CanOz




Yes but it passes the time


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## numbercruncher (29 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> Exactly, not to mention mobile phones, white goods, building materials, vegetables, and on and on...
> 
> China is still the world's factory.
> 
> CanOz





Vegetables from China - How could you - be straight in the Bin around my place - many a time Ive throw my Kids chemical laced Chinese lollies in the Bin - brings new meaning to taking Candy from a Child 

Your right though cant avoid made in China - just got to choose what goods to avoid - Ive noticed quite a bit of USA made stuff lately ....

I was quite surprised when I bought my ipad from the apple store it actually shipped to me direct from China and was in my hot little hands virtually as quick as standard postage would be here .....


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## Starcraftmazter (29 May 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Yes but you still own them. In fact if you bought them years ago its more likely they were made in China, as it is only in the last year or so that a lot of suppliers started switching elsewhere




Again, I'm not a woman so I don't really consider cloths as valuable or important things. They make up maybe 1% of the value of my possessions. I have no idea where they were made and don't care. If I was to buy cloths now, I would ensure they are not made by slave labour in poor Asian countries.



CanOz said:


> Exactly, not to mention mobile phones, white goods, building materials, vegetables, and on and on...




Chinese vegetables? People buy these? WTF.

All Samsung phones are produced in Korea (and cost less than i****), I'm sure you can find Japanese and German white goods.


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## numbercruncher (29 May 2012)

I dont get the fascination people have with buying cheap crapola from China -  if you look about you can get good quality for good prices too - example I wear RM Williams jeans that are made in Oz - $40 bucks a pair (from the factory outlet mindyou) - why would you bother with $20 slave labour stuff ? and the Oz or quality stuff probably lasts a good 10 years longer


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## History Repeats (29 May 2012)

lol at this thread...


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## CanOz (29 May 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> RM Williams jeans that are made in Oz - $40 bucks a pair (from the factory outlet mindyou) - why would you bother with $20 slave labour stuff ? and the Oz or quality stuff probably lasts a good 10 years longer




Agree, i love the RM stuff, but ya need to look at the labels as some of that stuff is made elsewhere now too. I'm dying for a new pair of RM Boots, wore my other ones out around the factory.

I don't agree that its all slave labor, most multi nationals are providing the best income ever for developing countries, all with a safe ethical workplace. There are bad apples sure, but if you have a brand to protect you tend to do the right thing or learn the hard way when the public dumpd your product for another more ethical brand.


CanOz


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## numbercruncher (29 May 2012)

Yes using the slave labour expression was a little extreme , I take it back -

Now where is my Indian made soccer ball ?


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## johenmo (29 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> I build all my PCs myself from high quality components.




And where are these high quality components (or sub-components) made?


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## johenmo (29 May 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> I wear RM Williams jeans that are made in Oz - $40 bucks a pair (from the factory outlet mindyou)




Where do I find one of these in Vic?!?

We have bought real wood furniture for many years, and not asian hardwood stuff.  Lasts several lifetimes if looked after.  But the Chinese "woodpaste" furniture is a lot cheaper.

I have given into the fact that most electronics is out of asia.  But sometimes the chinese items are suitable for the purpose at the price and quality.


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## Starcraftmazter (29 May 2012)

johenmo said:


> And where are these high quality components (or sub-components) made?




Well.....

Motherboard in Japan and Taiwan
RAM in Taiwan
SSDs in USA
Magnatic HDDs in Japan
PC Case in Taiwan
CPU in USA
Graphics card in Taiwan
Power supply in Taiwan with some Japanese parts
Sound-card in Taiwan, also have some other sound equipment made in USA
Monitors in Korea
Keyboard in Taiwan
Mouse made in USA, it's laser was in all likelihood also made in USA
Headphones, Router in Germany
Also have some cooling equipment made in USA.

I think that about covers it. And yes, these are the manufacturing locations - not where the company is incorporates / where design offices are.

Not a lot of electronics are actually made in China, unless you are buying complete and utter crap. Not to mention China doesn't have the capability to produce any high-end electronics at all.


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## numbercruncher (29 May 2012)

I got a cple of pairs from the Gold Coast outlet - not sure if the have outlet in Vic.

Yes realwood furniture is the way to go hey !

Cheap electronics is a great thing from the Asian manufacturing boom, surely cant get much cheaper?


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## bellenuit (29 May 2012)

I remember in the 60s when Japanese goods had the reputation for tackiness but 10 years later their quality improved to the extent that they were often preferred over goods from the "old" countries. Likewise Korean goods in the 80s, but look at companies like Samsung and LG now. Wait 10 years or so and Chinese goods will be up there with the best.


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## hja (29 May 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> I dont get the fascination people have with buying cheap crapola from China -  if you look about you can get good quality for good prices too - example I wear RM Williams jeans that are made in Oz - $40 bucks a pair (from the factory outlet mindyou) - why would you bother with $20 slave labour stuff ? and the Oz or quality stuff probably lasts a good 10 years longer




It's the reality on the street that just about every retail outlet has 90 or 99% made in China; sometimes Bangladesh or India.

Not that I've shopped there but I'm surprised that RM Williams clothes are made in Australia considering other Aussie major brands like Billabong or Quiksilver that you buy say from surf shops are "made in China" even if it's labeled "designed in Australia". Oh, and those brands are considered "good quality", too.


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## Glen48 (29 May 2012)

They will all be over here working for Gina on 457 Visa's,why take 10yrs turn up the quality and go hard,


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## History Repeats (29 May 2012)

johenmo said:


> We have bought real wood furniture for many years, and not asian hardwood stuff.  Lasts several lifetimes if looked after.  But the Chinese "woodpaste" furniture is a lot cheaper.




Have you heard of Chinese redwood furnitures? I bet 100% users here can't afford it.


People in this thread remain me this story. About a frog and his friend stuck in a well. His friend asked the frog: " how wide you think the sky is? ". Frog said: " as big as the well opening ". How wrong were the frog once both of them got out.



Glen48 said:


> They will all be over here working for Gina on 457 Visa's,why take 10yrs turn up the quality and go hard,




Seems to me there's a thing you have against the Chinese. Then i looked under your username, Location
Philippines now i understand why. 

By the way that last post full of irony. Do you see any chinese in a boat trying to come to Australia?


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## Smurf1976 (29 May 2012)

I have worked (in Australia) with engineers of a Chinese background. They will not specify or even allow Chinese products in their own designs due to quality reasons. That says it all really...

As for boots, I buy Rossi which is made in Australia. Price and quality are both just fine so I'll keep buying them.


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## Glen48 (29 May 2012)

His tory Repeating, Strange you mention Chinese was  married to one .Bit far away for boat people but will let you know I if hear any thing.
No harm in shooting the messenger I guess.


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## numbercruncher (29 May 2012)

History Repeats said:


> Have you heard of Chinese redwood furnitures? I bet 100% users here can't afford it.
> 
> 
> People in this thread remain me this story. About a frog and his friend stuck in a well. His friend asked the frog: " how wide you think the sky is? ". Frog said: " as big as the well opening ". How wrong were the frog once both of them got out.
> ...





No one is discriminating against Chinese people - just many many Chinese products are made poorly with at times very bad quality control. Im surprised you havnt noticed this yourself.

Ie/ we wernt speaking of Chinese redwood we were speaking of typical mass produced Chinese furniture.

Sorry if you misunderstood - all Chinese people I have interacted with in past have been nice people as far as I could tell.


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## History Repeats (29 May 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> Sorry if you misunderstood




Totally understand what everyone are saying. Pretty simple, you get what you pay. But it's funny how narrow minded people thinks everything made in China are cheap and inferior in quality.


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## ROE (30 May 2012)

bellenuit said:


> I remember in the 60s when Japanese goods had the reputation for tackiness but 10 years later their quality improved to the extent that they were often preferred over goods from the "old" countries. Likewise Korean goods in the 80s, but look at companies like Samsung and LG now. Wait 10 years or so and Chinese goods will be up there with the best.




Just the evolution of manufacturing...

Japan start out make stuff cheap but then they realise sooner or later other countries can make cheaper so they start shifting focus to quality.

Once other countries can do cheaper than China, China don't have a choice but to move to quality productions.

With cheapness you can only compete on price so if someone can do it cheaper you are out of luck..with quality you have wider playing field (brand, service and quality etc..)

I'm dead set on quality once I like a certain brand quality I come up the cash for it or I go without...

For Jacket and Winter gears..I buy nothing but The North Face . American brand, stunning quality, last a life time and awesome design..

For Camera Lenses I only buy Canon L-Series Made in Japan.
Professional quality, weather shield and unmatch imagine quality and sharpness 
and general electrical stuff if I can find a Made in Japan one I buy that one...

For IT, I used to be a real nerd doing everything myself but these day Apple got my money from Macbook air to iPod , iPhone and iPad .. We have more than a dozen Apple products at home  i everything... awesome quality software and hardware
a joy to use ...

I never like cheap and nasty stuff, you end up buying twice and in the process you never get to enjoy using it..

PS: most stuff are made in China but if you stick with quality brand name, they use proper material, has quality control and are top class ... Most North Face jackets made in South America and China but their quality is unmatched by rival...


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## CanOz (30 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> China doesn't have the capability to produce any high-end electronics at all.



Where do you come up with this crap?

Support your foolish claims with some evidence for a change, are you saying there are no high End products produced in china at all? WTF? 

CanOz


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## Joules MM1 (30 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Not to mention China doesn't have the capability to produce any high-end electronics at all.




that 's right, you shouldnt mention that, as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer



> This is a recent list of the computers which appeared at the top of the Top500 list,[68] and the "Peak speed" is given as the "Rmax" rating. For more historical data see History of supercomputing.




2010 	Tianhe-IA 	(speed) 2.566 PFLOPS 	Tianjin, China







same size as Germany and bigger than Japan

Comparison (June 2011)[3] Country 	Top speed
(Tflops) 	Number of computers in TOP500
*China 	2566 	61*
 France 	1050 	25
 Germany 	826 	30
 Japan 	8162 	26
 Russia 	350 	12
 South Korea 	316 	4
 United Kingdom 	275 	27
 United States 	1759 	255

.....hello !


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## Starcraftmazter (30 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> Where do you come up with this crap?
> 
> Support your foolish claims with some evidence for a change, are you saying there are no high End products produced in china at all? WTF?




Excuse me? Do you even know what you're talking about? Intel has the most advanced fabrication facilities on the planet - nearly all in USA. The only fab plant Intel has in China is for old crappy 65nm dies. 32, 22 and 14 nm plants are all in USA.

Then look at TSMC, arguably the most advanced fab facilities after Intel - it's in Taiwan.

When I think of ANY PC component - ANY at all, none of the top quality products are manufactured in China.



Joules MM1 said:


> that 's right, you shouldnt mention that, as:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer




I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Many supercomputers are not even built and designed in their country - but even so, I cannot fathom a more irrelevant measure of how advanced the electronics industry is in a country. What a supercomputer even is, is quite subject these days. Give me a billion $, I will buy a thousand nVidia Tegra cards produced in Taiwan and make one of the world's most powerful supercomputers with amazing parallel computing capacity. What does this prove about my ability to manufacture hi-tech electronics? Nothing. 



Joules MM1 said:


> 2010 	Tianhe-IA 	(speed) 2.566 PFLOPS 	Tianjin, China




You realise it's comprised of Intel CPUs manufactured in *USA* and nVidia/ATI graphics cards manufactured in *Taiwan* - right? What exactly does it prove about China's electronics industry?

Why do people who have no idea about computers even bother?


Again, name some top quality component produced in China. Any? Any at all?

I can only think of Taiwan, Japan, Korea, USA and Germany.


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## rumpole (30 May 2012)

Did anyone else notice that NEW ZEALAND was on the supercomputer chart but Austalia wasn't ?

How humiliating


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## Calliope (30 May 2012)

rumpole said:


> Did anyone else notice that NEW ZEALAND was on the supercomputer chart but Austalia wasn't ?
> How humiliating






> When are we going to wake up that Chinese goods are rubbish and it's time to start redeveloping our manufacturing industry?




Your leader Ms Gillard's carbon tax puts all Australian manufacturers at a disadvantage. We will never have a manufacturing industry while Gillard and the Greens continue to hold power. The taxpayer can't afford to prop them all up - like the motor industry.


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## rumpole (30 May 2012)

Calliope said:


> Your leader Ms Gillard's carbon tax puts all Australian manufacturers at a disadvantage. We will never have a manufacturing industry while Gillard and the Greens continue to hold power. The taxpayer can't afford to prop them all up - like the motor industry.




I doubt if the carbon tax is going to impact much on the production of supercomputers.

The major factor in the downturn of local manufacturing is and will continue to be the appreciation of the $AU due to the mining boom. Would you have any ideas on overcoming that obstacle ?


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## Calliope (30 May 2012)

rumpole said:


> I doubt if the carbon tax is going to impact much on the production of supercomputers.
> 
> The major factor in the downturn of local manufacturing is and will continue to be the appreciation of the $AU due to the mining boom. Would you have any ideas on overcoming that obstacle ?




Yes. Abolish the Carbon Tax.


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## CanOz (30 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Excuse me? Do you even know what you're talking about? Intel has the most advanced fabrication facilities on the planet - nearly all in USA. The only fab plant Intel has in China is for old crappy 65nm dies. 32, 22 and 14 nm plants are all in USA.




My last post on this sub-topic....

Intel in China



> The new plant fulfills Intel's total investment commitment in China to $4.7 billion. Intel has also established an assembly and test site in Chengdu as well as R&D centers and labs in Beijing, Shanghai and elsewhere in China, it said.




Yes, they're struggling to compete with the likes of Taiwan and the US, but to say they have no capability insinuates that you actually know, and you do not. Just like the rest of your opinionated :bs:, always unsubstantiated opinion, nothing more, ever....

CanOz


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## Calliope (30 May 2012)

Australia has a very favourable trade relationship with China courtesy of the hated extraction industry.

*Australia's trade and investment relationship with China *

Australian merchandise trade with China, 2011: Total share: Rank: Growth (yoy):
Exports to China (A$m): 71,561 27.3% 1st 22.5%
Imports from China (A$m): 42,144 18.6% 1st 7.4%
Total trade (exports + imports) (A$m): 113,705 23.2% 1st 16.4%


Major Australian exports, 2011 (A$m):------             Major Australian imports, 2011 (A$m):
Iron ores & concentrates 44,050-----------                      Telecom equipment & parts 4,472
Coal 4,543 Crude Petroleum  2,902----------                  Computers 4,341 Clothing 4,260
Wool & other animal hair (incl tops) 2,022---        Furniture, mattresses & cushions 1,705


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## Starcraftmazter (30 May 2012)

CanOz said:


> My last post on this sub-topic....
> 
> Intel in China
> 
> ...




Stop embarrassing yourself - a *US Company* set up a factory there to produce *the most obsolete fab process they have - the 65nm*. There is no competition - China is *incapable* of competing.


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## History Repeats (30 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Stop embarrassing yourself - a *US Company* set up a factory there to produce *the most obsolete fab process they have - the 65nm*. There is no competition - China is *incapable* of competing.




Is this guy serious?? You did thought on an investing/trading forum on average the poster would be more intelligent and sensible than other. But then again this is the internet. 



rumpole said:


> The major factor in the downturn of local manufacturing is and will continue to be the appreciation of the $AU due to the mining boom. Would you have any ideas on overcoming that obstacle ?




AUD a factor but it's more to do with overhead costs and bureaucracy. End of the day, a developed country cannot compete with a developing country.


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## jank (30 May 2012)

Give China time, they will move up the food chain to be manufacturers of high quality goods. It is happening right now.
Arent almost all Apple products made in China?

Remember the 80's and 90's where Tiawan made all the crap China makes now? Remember the 60's and 70's where the same crap was made in Hong Kong and Japan?
Give them time.

 Anyway, what does Australia make, we are not ones to talk really.


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## Starcraftmazter (30 May 2012)

History Repeats said:


> Is this guy serious?? You did thought on an investing/trading forum on average the poster would be more intelligent and sensible than other. But then again this is the internet.




Good argument pal, you sure showed me. Now make with some substance, or stop wasting my time.



jank said:


> Anyway, what does Australia make, we are not ones to talk really.




Hearing implants? Yep, that's pretty much it.


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## Calliope (30 May 2012)

jank said:


> Give China time, they will move up the food chain to be manufacturers of high quality goods. It is happening right now.
> Arent almost all Apple products made in China?
> 
> Remember the 80's and 90's where Tiawan made all the crap China makes now? Remember the 60's and 70's where the same crap was made in Hong Kong and Japan?
> ...




The early Korean Hyundai was easily forgettable but now they can or match or surpass any similar vehicle from Japan or Europe or the US. The Langdong (Elantra) will soon be made in Beijing.



> Langdong will be produced at Hyundai’s new production plant in Beijing in the second half of this year, and is expected to accelerate the upward momentum for Hyundai in the world’s largest auto market. Beijing Hyundai Motor Co. (BHMC), Hyundai’s joint venture in China, is currently building a third plant, which will raise its maximum production capacity to one million units annually.




http://www.hyundai.com.au/about-hyundai/news/Articles/Hyundai-Motor-Unveils-China-exclusive-Elantra


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## Gringotts Bank (30 May 2012)

jank said:


> Anyway, what does Australia make, we are not ones to talk really.




We *are *the ones to talk..

Australia has a pretty decent manufacturing base, it's just not in clothing and electrical goods.  But it is high quality.

China on the other hand are happy to allow exploitation of peasants in sweat shop factories, on farms and in mines.  They pay each peasant a bowl of rice per day, there are no health and safety regulations, and hours are as long as the boss needs you.  And this is all condoned by the supreme leaders because it makes the China a richer nation.  The fact that this wealth comes _at the expense of the lower class_ is no problem for them.  There's always another billion or so peasants who will do the work.  Anyone who dares question the supreme leaders ends up in jail.  Good system really, when you think about it.


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## prawn_86 (30 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Anyone who dares question the supreme leaders ends up in jail.  Good system really, when you think about it.




Sounds like wehre we will eventually get with the erosions of freedoms that are happening in Western countries


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## Glen48 (30 May 2012)

The Chinese are quietly getting on with business and know wealth is with farms/agriculture  and energy/minerals,they are buying up all the Gold produced in China and what ever that can out side the country no one know how much of Oz Chinese owns from farms to mines. They are supporting any dictator any where to get what they want.

They currently off shore in the Philippines laying claim to the Oil fields and mineral rights.
China have USA under control and selling USD which will stop USA in their tracks.
What they can't buy they could one day take with force and Australia is high on the list the top in China know they need to keep the peasants under control to keep their  lifestyle so why worry about manufacturing goods no one wants to buy when foods and energy is where the power is.


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## Calliope (30 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> They pay each peasant a bowl of rice per day




It's statements like this that destroy any credibility.


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## Gringotts Bank (30 May 2012)

Calliope said:


> It's statements like this that destroy any credibility.




US $1.25 an hour, but that's working at an Apple factory.  Imagine what's it like in a Chinese-owned factory.  Probably a fraction of that.  If you're saying $1.25 an hour buys you some pretty nice rice, then I guess I'd have to agree.  

http://www.policymic.com/articles/8...-off-the-backs-of-chinese-sweatshop-labor&op=


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## jank (30 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> We *are *the ones to talk..
> 
> Australia has a pretty decent manufacturing base, it's just not in clothing and electrical goods.  But it is high quality.




Not too sure about that. I am not saying it is rubbish, but Australia is has never been internationally renowed for its high quality manufacturing like Germany or Japan. Even the US in the past were good at it. I am sure there are companies out there that are world beater like ARP or COH but as a whole Australia doesnt really figure. Like if you buy a product say a car made in Germany you will know that it has been engieered to the highest standard. You think its a coincidence that the German Marques dominate the luxury car market? Mercades, BMW, VW, Porchse and Audi are all German and have been making cars for 80 years. Swiss made watches, Danish made furniture, Belguim choclates lol. These go hand in hand with each other around the world. If a leather chair says "Made in Denmark" you know that its going to last you 30 years if looked after. The "Made in" part is part of the brand. It sells!

Australia was always built on agriculture and mining. It hasnt change all that much tbh and in fairness due to Australias small population, young nation mentality, geographic isolationism, high cost and lack of a a large industrial base its not surprising.




Gringotts Bank said:


> China on the other hand are happy to allow exploitation of peasants in sweat shop factories, on farms and in mines.  They pay each peasant a bowl of rice per day, there are no health and safety regulations, and hours are as long as the boss needs you.  And this is all condoned by the supreme leaders because it makes the China a richer nation.  The fact that this wealth comes _at the expense of the lower class_ is no problem for them.  There's always another billion or so peasants who will do the work.  Anyone who dares question the supreme leaders ends up in jail.  Good system really, when you think about it.




Er, not going to go there.


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## CanOz (30 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> China on the other hand are happy to allow exploitation of peasants in sweat shop factories, on farms and in mines.  They pay each peasant a bowl of rice per day, there are no health and safety regulations, and hours are as long as the boss needs you.




GB, i really expected more from you...

Private business would be the ones exploiting workers, not state owned. We competed against state owned enterprises for labor and they could pay more, and give better benefits hands down. The culture, our culture as a WFOE was desirable to the labor force.

Private business's have the worst safety records especially in the mines and the construction sites. WFOE and JVs would be the good examples in the industry, the government makes sure of that. You wouldn't want investors in your country treating your people _worse_ than you would ya?

Average wage is about 1000-1500 CNY per month, but it depends on where you live of course. 

CanOz


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## Joules MM1 (30 May 2012)

jank said:


> Not too sure about that. I am not saying it is rubbish, but Australia is has never been internationally renowed for its high quality manufacturing




oh.......really?

Vauxhall Monaro

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/sand-blast-2-part-2



> C'mon Australia !



James May, driving the 'Vauxhall' Monaro made by (cough) Holden


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## Chris45 (30 May 2012)

Opticians now have some very serious competition from a Chinese/US company, Zenni Optical (incorporated in Oregon). www.zennioptical.com

Prescription specs, courier delivered in FOUR days, from $17 (that's frames + lenses + delivery) and the quality is excellent. From what I've read, most customers looking for conventional single vision and bifocal specs are very happy with them.


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## History Repeats (30 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> We *are *the ones to talk..
> 
> Australia has a pretty decent manufacturing base, it's just not in clothing and electrical goods.  But it is high quality.




You mean we produce the world renowned ugg boots...Gee very decent manufacturing base indeed.

Does Australia have its own space program? GPS system? The list goes on, pretty decent for a developing country compare to a developed country.



Gringotts Bank said:


> China on the other hand are happy to allow exploitation of peasants in sweat shop factories, on farms and in mines.  They pay each peasant a bowl of rice per day, there are no health and safety regulations, and hours are as long as the boss needs you.  And this is all condoned by the supreme leaders because it makes the China a richer nation.  The fact that this wealth comes _at the expense of the lower class_ is no problem for them.  There's always another billion or so peasants who will do the work.  Anyone who dares question the supreme leaders ends up in jail.  Good system really, when you think about it.




Have you been to China? Probably not. There's always the good and the bad.

A bit ironic, whose trying to exploit the "peasant" beside the government? Oh yeah, the same old western companies. And let's be honest here, if Australia were to have 1.3 billion population we probably be another India. One friendly tip, get off your high horse.

Like Jank said let's not go there.


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## History Repeats (30 May 2012)

Sorry to double post edit time were passed.



Glen48 said:


> They currently off shore in the Philippines laying claim to the Oil fields and mineral rights.
> China have USA under control and selling USD which will stop USA in their tracks.
> What they can't buy they could one day take with force and Australia is high on the list.




Looks like my suspicion about you having personal agenda and spreading propaganda were right after all. 

1) If you actually read any news which i doubt, not so long ago Reuters had an article about the dispute. Which the Chinese lay claim based on historical papers.

2) You joined this forum to learn how to invest/trade or..... May be you should do some research on resource boom and then you will see Mongolia pop up. Now you tell me, if you were the Chinese leaders invade Australia or Mongolia?

Edit: looking forward to your reply with facts, not your personal agenda and propaganda attach to it.


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## CanOz (30 May 2012)

Right E Oh folks, back on topic...

CanOz


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## johenmo (30 May 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Well.....
> I think that about covers it. And yes, these are the manufacturing locations - not where the company is incorporates / where design offices are.




Fair enough - I asked because I hadn't looked at it.


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## Smurf1976 (30 May 2012)

History Repeats said:


> But it's funny how narrow minded people thinks everything made in China are cheap and inferior in quality.



It's like saying that all food McDonald's sells is of low nutritional value with too much fat, salt, sugar etc whilst also noting that it often involves some form of burger.

Yes, they do sell fruit these days but most people associate "McDonald's" with "burgers and fries" since that is what they are known for.

I say "Rolls Royce" and most people immediately think "luxury car" since that is the association. Not many would think "power station equipment" or "aircraft engines", both of which are also manufactured by Rolls.

I say "made in China" and most think "cheap and nasty" since that is the reputation. Sure, they make some decent stuff but that is not their reputation due to an awful lot of cheaply made goods sold over the years. Just like McDonald's sold a lot of burgers with fries and Rolls sold a lot of cars.


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## jank (30 May 2012)

Joules MM1 said:


> oh.......really?
> 
> Vauxhall Monaro
> 
> ...




And? James May's favorite car maker is Alfa Romeo but they are as reliable as an old man in a brothel.


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## Gringotts Bank (1 June 2012)

History Repeats said:


> Have you been to China? Probably not. There's always the good and the bad.
> 
> A bit ironic, whose trying to exploit the "peasant" beside the government? Oh yeah, the same old western companies. And let's be honest here, if Australia were to have 1.3 billion population we probably be another India. One friendly tip, get off your high horse.
> 
> Like Jank said let's not go there.




Haven't been to China but have spoken to many who grew up there.  They tell me corruption is absolutely rampant at all levels of business.... to the degree that it makes Wall St bankers look like good corporate citizens.

Who exploits the peasant besides the Chinese government?  As you say, it's the big Western manufacturing companies.  Nike and co. started it, they're still doing it - and it's just not right.  The Chinese government, who should be doing more to prevent this exploitation, are condoning it.  They're in bed with the big US and European brands, because they all get rich together.  And it's all happening at the expense of the Chinese peasant.   

Stop assuming things.  

Australia and the US could easily compete with Chinese manufacturing if we paid workers next to nothing.  Don't you see where this massive wealth is coming from?


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## CanOz (1 June 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Haven't been to China but have spoken to many who grew up there.  They tell me corruption is absolutely rampant at all levels of business.... to the degree that it makes Wall St bankers look like good corporate citizens.
> 
> Who exploits the peasant besides the Chinese government?  As you say, it's the big Western manufacturing companies.  Nike and co. started it, they're still doing it - and it's just not right.  The Chinese government, who should be doing more to prevent this exploitation, are condoning it.  They're in bed with the big US and European brands, because they all get rich together.  And it's all happening at the expense of the Chinese peasant.
> 
> ...




This is absolutely untrue GB. You have not lived here let alone worked for a fortune 500 company in China and you are telling tales.:nono:

CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (1 June 2012)

Which part do you disagree with?


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## CanOz (1 June 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Which part do you disagree with?






> GB, i really expected more from you...
> 
> Private business would be the ones exploiting workers, not state owned. We competed against state owned enterprises for labor and they could pay more, and give better benefits hands down. The culture, our culture as a WFOE was desirable to the labor force.
> 
> ...





As above....


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## Gringotts Bank (1 June 2012)

What I've heard from Chinese residents is that the amount of tax you pay is according to how well you know the local tax official.  That if you want to update your car license, you take a bribe with you.  That if you're a teacher and you want to change jobs, you have to pay off the principle.  These are stories NOT from the wealthy fortune 500-set you mingle with, but the poor, the peasants.  

Then there's the mining accidents: http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=321&catid=13&subcatid=85     If this isn't serious exploitation, I don't know what is.

Can you imagine FMG's bottom line if workers here were treated this way.  Add another few zeros to the profit result.

Do you also condone exploitation?


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## CanOz (1 June 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> What I've heard from Chinese residents is that the amount of tax you pay is according to how well you know the local tax official.  That if you want to update your car license, you take a bribe with you.  That if you're a teacher and you want to change jobs, you have to pay off the principle.  These are stories NOT from the wealthy fortune 500-set you mingle with, but the poor, the peasants.
> 
> Then there's the mining accidents: http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=321&catid=13&subcatid=85     If this isn't serious exploitation, I don't know what is.




You are talking about a country with 1.3 billion people and you are highlighting the worst. I am telling you that the individual citizen here knows exactly how to work the system in their favor. 99% of the population does this because for years it was the only way to get ahead. Every level of society here (and in every other emerging market BTW) participates in this, it is *NORMAL* business. It may not be a bribe, it may just be a dinner and a gift, or it could be a new car, a holiday, or a safe full of cash. Same as the Wal Mart guys did in Mexico, same as lobbyists do to congressmen. 

What you are talking about is everywhere GB. As an employee of a business that values ethics, we laid out our values from the start, the local government wanted us to be shining examples of good business ethics and we got tons of support for this. It also meant that we had to spend a ton of money to comply with the strictest of regulations, or we got fined, hard. We chose to comply, to uphold our values and that was respected. The other way to play this would be to just bribe the officials, something the local government neither wanted, not would condone. 

Either way, your playing by the rules that are the same around the world, they just look a little different from country to country. Thailand, Vietnam, Argentina, Columbia, Malaysia, Japan, are all the same to some degree or another. 

By the way, when your in manufacturing the 'set' that we hang out with is middle class management to factory class worker. 

Edit: No of course i do condone exploitation, but i am saying that it happens. It happened when Australia was founded, when the US was becoming a nation, when the UK industrialized. Now its happening in countries that are industrializing and you cry foul????!!!! Get real, we did the same bloody thing. 


CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (1 June 2012)

CanOz said:


> You are talking about a country with 1.3 billion people and you are highlighting the worst. I am telling you that the individual citizen here knows exactly how to work the system in their favor. 99% of the population does this because for years it was the only way to get ahead. Every level of society here (and in every other emerging market BTW) participates in this, it is *NORMAL* business. It may not be a bribe, it may just be a dinner and a gift, or it could be a new car, a holiday, or a safe full of cash. Same as the Wal Mart guys did in Mexico, same as lobbyists do to congressmen.
> 
> What you are talking about is everywhere GB. As an employee of a business that values ethics, we laid out our values from the start, the local government wanted us to be shining examples of good business ethics and we got tons of support for this. It also meant that we had to spend a ton of money to comply with the strictest of regulations, or we got fined, hard. We chose to comply, to uphold our values and that was respected. The other way to play this would be to just bribe the officials, something the local government neither wanted, not would condone.
> 
> ...




I know you live there, so I have to take that into consideration, being first hand account.  And I do realize it happens in other nations, but it gets my goat a little bit when I see this _extreme _wealth made at the expense of the lower class.  The other nations you mention don't have that happening, even if population size is accounted for.

What about the mining accidents?  (I know, Africa is very bad too, but doesn't compare in sheer numbers).

In response to your edit,   In the US it was horrendous - slavery of blacks.  But the English explorers went out of their way to be friendly with the Aborigines.  They had a charter to do so.  The charity extends to this day - as it should.


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## CanOz (1 June 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I know you live there, so I have to take that into consideration, being first hand account.  And I do realize it happens in other nations, but it gets my goat a little bit when I see this _extreme _wealth made at the expense of the lower class.  The other nations you mention don't have that happening, even if population size is accounted for.
> 
> What about the mining accidents?  (I know, Africa is very bad too, but doesn't compare in sheer numbers).
> 
> In response to your edit,   In the US it was horrendous - slavery of blacks.  But the English explorers went out of their way to be friendly with the Aborigines.  They had a charter to do so.  The charity extends to this day - as it should.




The mining accidents are usually in small illegal mines. IF accidents happen in state owned mines the management is usually thrown in jail or worse. The tend to make very public examples out of management of state owned companies as the media here is very unforgiving if they know they can get the public wound up. They have no choice, they cannot even control their own social media anymore so they use it as their barometer.

Thailand and Vietnam are extremely corrupt, i spent allot of time in Thailand and i can tell you everything there is cartel controlled. the cops are in on everything, and Vietnam is still worse again. Cambodia would be the same, its the culture. You do what you need to do to survive and that culture is still the same to this day.

That's why progress is so slow, so many hands to pay along the way.

Come over for a visit GB, see it for yourself. I'd be happy to show you around...

CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (1 June 2012)

ok.  Well we're probably not poles apart.

Over and out!


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## History Repeats (1 June 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> but it gets my goat a little bit when I see this _extreme _wealth made at the expense of the lower class.




I guess you are not the sharest tool in the shed. Wall street held United States of America and the rest of the world to ransom with bailout money from the taxpayers throughout the financial crisis and it hasn't stopped yet. Arguably one the biggest wealth redistribution in the world, particularly in the US, where the middle class got sucked dry.

Now you telling me "it gets your goat a little bit" when you see "extreme" wealth made at the expense of lower class in China compare to what the Wall street bankers did? Please don't embarrass yourself again next time think before you post.


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## Glen48 (1 June 2012)

Now I understand why Al Gore is on the Apple board along with a lot of other ex fed members, how do you define corruption if a lobby group get the Feds to change banking rules  or a Fed member gets the inside dope on a new piece of legislation and does a bit of insider trading,in a way it makes business run smoother if you can grease a palm and get your licence upgraded with out having to take a number when it gets upgrade to a new class with out you doing the course that's corruption


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## Smurf1976 (1 June 2012)

If Australian manufacturing companies have to comply with Australian laws for OH&S, pay rates, carbon tax etc then the same ought to apply to China and others with penalties (ie tariffs) for non-compliance.

It's a joke of a situation that manufacturing something in Australia incurs all of these costs which are completely avoidable simply by relocating the factory to China (for example). The end result being Australians thrown out of work, whilst the supposed safety, environment etc standards are disregarded thus making such standards largely pointless in a practical sense.


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## CanOz (1 June 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> If Australian manufacturing companies have to comply with Australian laws for OH&S, pay rates, carbon tax etc then the same ought to apply to China and others with penalties (ie tariffs) for non-compliance.
> 
> It's a joke of a situation that manufacturing something in Australia incurs all of these costs which are completely avoidable simply by relocating the factory to China (for example). The end result being Australians thrown out of work, whilst the supposed safety, environment etc standards are disregarded thus making such standards largely pointless in a practical sense.




I totally agree Smurf, and I'm not completely certain but i think that's some of the minutia that's written into the WTO agreements. 

CanOz


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## Starcraftmazter (1 June 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> If Australian manufacturing companies have to comply with Australian laws for OH&S, pay rates, carbon tax etc then the same ought to apply to China and others with penalties (ie tariffs) for non-compliance.
> 
> It's a joke of a situation that manufacturing something in Australia incurs all of these costs which are completely avoidable simply by relocating the factory to China (for example). The end result being Australians thrown out of work, whilst the supposed safety, environment etc standards are disregarded thus making such standards largely pointless in a practical sense.




That certainly makes a lot of sense, and I agree....although it doesn't solve the problem of exporting to other countries.

This is why all countries should come together under one unified carbon emissions trading scheme, and tariff every other country who doesn't. Trivial really.


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## numbercruncher (1 June 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> If Australian manufacturing companies have to comply with Australian laws for OH&S, pay rates, carbon tax etc then the same ought to apply to China and others with penalties (ie tariffs) for non-compliance.
> 
> It's a joke of a situation that manufacturing something in Australia incurs all of these costs which are completely avoidable simply by relocating the factory to China (for example). The end result being Australians thrown out of work, whilst the supposed safety, environment etc standards are disregarded thus making such standards largely pointless in a practical sense.




Exactly - substantial tariffs need to be applied to imports from countries who dont meet our or even resemble our standards.


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## CanOz (1 June 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> Exactly - substantial tariffs need to be applied to imports from countries who dont meet our or even resemble our standards.




You need to be careful and not cross the line to protectionism.

Its a geopolitical game that plays out in global markets all the time without the majority of people even being aware.

CanOz


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## Starcraftmazter (1 June 2012)

How is it protectionism? Luxury car tax is an example of a toxic protectionist policy which serves no purpose.

Putting a tariff on countries who don't tax carbon is just evening the playing field.


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## Starcraftmazter (1 June 2012)

kennas said:


> No purpose? You can't think on one?




Pardon me, no *legitimate* purpose.


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## Dona Ferentes (20 June 2020)

_Was looking for somewhere to drop this in. You'd think there are too many manufacturers of ICE vehicles, (I've read it's well above 600) but still they keep trying.
- ......._
*What product is Australia leaning on China more and more for these days? Cars.
*
Chinese-made cars have become a serious part of our market all of a sudden. They’re not selling at Korean levels yet, but they are now much more than a niche choice.

This change comes at a surprising time. Overall, car sales in Australia are in the toilet. The number of cars sold here is down 24 per cent compared to last year, and the rot set in long before the pandemic. Car sales have been falling steadily for a couple of years now.

Did you know MG is Chinese? The company was once known as Morris Garages and based in Oxford, UK. It is now a subsidiary of SAIC Motor, a Chinese state-owned enterprise which makes cars in China.

LDV is another British brand stuck to the grille of a Chinese car-making operation. LDV has sold 2100 cars in Australia so far this year, mostly big muscly utes at bargain prices.

Even the most proudly Chinese-named car company – Great Wall Motors – has a sub-brand which you might not guess was Chinese: Haval SUVs.

It is the Haval brand which reveals the second thing the Chinese have learned about car-making. The Haval H2 – a city SUV priced in the low $20,000 range – has achieved what many thought impossible for a Chinese car: a five-star safety rating. Nice one Haval.

_Of course, not all Chinese vehicles can claim this – the Great Wall utes still have a terrifying two-star rating. But the signs are there of quality improvement.

Just as the world saw when Japan and Korea started making cars, if you sell large volumes, it doesn’t take long to get better at it. And China sells large volumes. Millions of cars are sold each year domestically in China.

China’s car industry is enormous – estimated at around 10 per cent of China’s whole economy. Growing the car industry is a national priority for China, as it tries to develop beyond being a maker of plastic toys and cotton socks to become a hotbed of high technology and luxury goods.

But China has a problem. While Chinese people buy millions of Chinese cars, no Chinese brand has yet become like Toyota or Hyundai – trusted and reliable globally. To build that kind of brand, it needs to continue to explore foreign markets and test our preferences.

That puts Chinese car exports in an interesting place in any trade war. The share of the Australian market they hold is only moderate. If China cut off the supply of cars, we could certainly easily manage. There’s other brands. And in theory, they would not miss the exports.

What’s 15,000-20,000 cars a year when you’re selling 20 million at home? The real value of China’s car exports to Australia is in what they can learn about the global market.

That means, paradoxically, that even though we are a small market, and we don’t have a domestic car industry of our own, our increasing interest in Chinese cars is probably a strength in any trade dispute. China will want to keep selling cars here, keep experimenting and improving. They need us at least as much as we need them.

More Chinese cars will be launching in Australia in coming years. For example, the Glory E3, an electric car due next year, costing perhaps $50,000 to $60,000.

That is just one of the electric car brands under development in China, The Chinese government is supporting a lot of companies to make electric vehicles in the hope one of them will produce a hit – something to rival Tesla.

You can expect several of those brands to land in Australia. But will any of them go on to be popular? Given everything we’ve seen about how Chinese cars have improved so far, I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer was actually, eventually, yes.
......._
- Jason Murphy; news.com.au
_

_


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## DB008 (21 June 2020)

Dona - agreed with your post. I have seen the odd Haval/Chery/LDV here and there, and lots of Great Wall. They don't have a good reputation though, quality is rubbish, but Chinese cars are getting better.


Seafood should not be imported from anywhere, especially China.

White spot disease (which affects crustaceans, prawns and crabs) has been found in QLD, again. Thanks China.

And Basa from Vietnam - ban that too.


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