# Aussie Mother faces jail in Thailand for bar prank



## cuttlefish (19 May 2009)

A horrible, scary situation that is likely undeserved, but putting that aside for the moment, what are others thoughts on how to deal with these sorts of situations?

My view is that after the Schapelle Corby debacle the last thing I would be doing is going to the media.   It would seem like a spurious charge and one that I'd imagine in a place like Thailand is typically resolved through a friendly donation to the appropriate people and a quiet and quick release secured.  My first thoughts would be on how best to achieve this in a way that does ensure the promise of freedom is delivered upon, and without getting ripped off.

What are peoples thoughts on all of this?  Is the media behaving irresponsibly by bringing publicity to this sort of situation?  Should there be some education available to travellers on how to navigate the 'informal' aspects of foreign legal systems?  

Has anyone had any direct experience with similar situations and managed to navigate their way out of it?

I think about the Corby case and at around the same time an Australian sailor was charged in indonesia with posession of weapons or bringing weapons into the country because he had various guns on his boat (for defense against pirates).   Very little media attention or profile apart from the initial news articles about his arrest and the man arrested certainly didn't do anything to stir up media attention, and  from memory he was released three months later with little media fanfare surrounding his release.


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## Joe Blow (19 May 2009)

A link for reference: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25505174-401,00.html


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

Thanks Joe.

On the face of it it sounds a bit rough even if she did nick it.

gg


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## awg (19 May 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> A horrible, scary situation that is likely undeserved, but putting that aside for the moment, what are others thoughts on how to deal with these sorts of situations?
> 
> 
> What are peoples thoughts on all of this?  Is the media behaving irresponsibly by bringing publicity to this sort of situation?  Should there be some education available to travellers on how to navigate the 'informal' aspects of foreign legal systems?
> ...





A lady from my suburb was accused of shop-lifting in a Thai market, when (according to what I heard) a necklace got snagged on her backpack. The stallholders got into an argument with her, and instead of just paying them, she said indignately "go on, call the police then".

Really stupid move.

I am not sure exactly what happened next, but she spent 2 weeks in a Thai womans prison, under appalling conditions.

Her family members had to fly over, and I believe, pay substantial bribes to get her out.

Shakedowns are very common in Asia.

Some of my friends that are surfers have been shaken down by Indo police or Immigration.

My advice is to have a good size wad of cash, handy, with other cash hidden.

If you get shaken down, negotiate.

They will usually out negotiate you

So offer to pay an "on the spot fine"

and hand over your wad of cash.

about 1 month salary will solve most problems

the more people you involve, the more you will have to pay.


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## The_Bman (19 May 2009)

Sure, but this corruption and method to deal with it is only fueling the problem.

I find boycotting these countries best. I’ve found a lot of great places where the locals actually invite you in rather than haggle you into utter frustration.

Except in Czech Republic where my Motorbike was stolen


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## awg (19 May 2009)

Corruption is endemic in these countries unfortunately

Dont break the law when you are there!!!!

I once witnessed a mass shakedown at an Indo airport.

All these people were crying and weeping cause the Immigration were preventing them boarding due to apparent "visa irregularites"

I walked up to them and told them to ask to see the head guy, in a private room and offer $20...problem solved.

My sister was furious, cause she paid them $100, on the way in, as they said you needed a passport that did not expire within 6 months.

On the way back out, they thanked her like a queen!

It took me a while, but I soon learnt that if you wanted any sort of priority service, you had to pay...it is totally expected.

they know how much the airfare etc is, and it is a matter of honour to extract some cash from you.

dont EVER make the mistake of causing an Asian official to lose face


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## cuttlefish (19 May 2009)

awg said:


> A lady from my suburb was accused of shop-lifting in a Thai market, when (according to what I heard) a necklace got snagged on her backpack. The stallholders got into an argument with her, and instead of just paying them, she said indignately "go on, call the police then".
> 
> Really stupid move.
> 
> ...




Cheers awg - so it seems a prompt offer of a what is by Thai standards a significant amount of money, but relatively modest by Australian standards (i.e. a couple of hundred dollars at best) could in all likelihood have quickly resolved the situation.  To avoid spending even half an hour in a Thai prison cell I'd be giving this a shot as my first option.

Now - given that your average journalist should in theory have at least half a clue of how things work in these countries and the effect publicity could have on the situation - is it irresponsible for them to take the story and start sensationalising it? - effectively cutting off any route for a simple, low key,  win/win negotiation out of the situation and turning it into yet another us vs them political drama.   

The media publicity could effectively turn a relatively minor incident into a long period in jail for this lady, which would be devastating for her and her family - but great for the media as they fed off the 'heartbreaking story'.

Also - what role could/should the Australian government play in all of this?  Obviously embassy officials can't get involved in bribery at any official level - but could they at least have a mechanism that ensures they are the first to speak to someone that finds themselves in a tight situation and at least strongly hint that quiet, diplomatic negotiation is the most effective course of action (and even possibly somehow subtly educate them on the informal approaches that might work?).


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

I remember when we were in Bali, just before we left we were accused of stealing a bed decoration from one of the rooms.  It was an ugly black and white checked thingy that covered the base of a single bed.  Lordy knows what they thought we would do with it, use it as a tea towel or perhaps a duster!  Anyway, they would not let us leave, we had a plane to catch but they were adamant we had stolen it.  Finally they contacted the person who looks after the rooms - poor bugger, it was midnight by now; and he said he had removed it from the room for safe keeping! 

So by now we were running late for the plane so the Hotel Manager ended up taking us. I didnt realise he was the head honcho, I thought he was one of their drivers! And as he got us there in good time so I gave him a dollar tip!  

It is very scary being accused of things whilst overseas.  The immediate thing to do is get a very good lawyer.  And contact the Embassy.


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

awg said:


> Corruption is endemic in these countries unfortunately
> 
> Dont break the law when you are there!!!!
> 
> I walked up to them and told them to ask to see the head guy, in a private room and offer $20...problem solved.




Awg, you say not to break the law, and then you bribe the officials?


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## awg (19 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> Awg, you say not to break the law, and then you bribe the officials?




I take your point Prospector, but not quite correct.

I dont use that word

baksheesh, is the term they use, in India anyway.


if negotiations are conducted carefully, offering to pay an "on the spot fine"
"compensation", or "settlement fee" ,maybe the best option, in fact, you may not even be breaking their law.

I was mainly talking about shakedowns as well.

My travels thru Asia were much less frustrating, when I worked out who to pay and when, for good service.

I personally never had to pay money to get out of real trouble.

I wont bore you with when I did pay, but, like anything else, work out the value...ie missing a plane is no fun.

but i did have a similar experience to you in Bangkok, they said a towel or something was missing. 

I never took it. 

I said " how much", and paid,

if I hadnt, I probably would have missed my flight.

If you ever end up in a Thai jail, you will have to pay to survive


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## Surfer35 (19 May 2009)

They did indeed arrest the wrong person. They should be arresting Jetstar and any other budget air carriers loitering around on charges of aiding and abetting moronic white trash Australians to travel.


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

Surfer35 said:


> They did indeed arrest the wrong person. They should be arresting Jetstar and any other budget air carriers loitering around on charges of aiding and abetting moronic white trash Australians to travel.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

Surfer35 said:


> They did indeed arrest the wrong person. They should be arresting Jetstar and any other budget air carriers loitering around on charges of aiding and abetting moronic white trash Australians to travel.




A fair point Surfer. I've only ever transited through Bangkok and Jakarta, but I always travel business or first, and have been treated with unfailing courtesy.

From speaking to Asian friends of mine, tourists in Thailand and Indonesia staying in the cheaper places and travelling coach class are considered trash, and treated so.


gg


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## Surfer35 (19 May 2009)

Thanks Garpul, regardless of the class of travel, if only more of us travelled with your humility they would encounter the same level of service and reception you do. I've lived in many Asian countries and the advent of cheap air travel has made me embarrassed when people ask where I am from.


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## Sean K (19 May 2009)

Sounds sus to me.

Like there's more to the story perhaps.

Lesson 2b. Don't steal crap.


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## Surfer35 (19 May 2009)

Kennas, exactly. How hard can it be?

How anyone can upset the Thais of Bangla Road (as they are used to accommodating the worst the West has to offer) is beyone me.

Definitely more to it.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (19 May 2009)

It's probably a good idea to be respectful and just blend in while in Asia.


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

So anyone who travels economy is trash? Boy, I thought I was a snob but you guys have taken this to a new level.  And travelling economy is not synonymous with not knowing how to behave by the way.

On the other hand, I am embarassed by fellow Australians in Bali, and last year, in Vietnam by older (retired I guess), 60 year old men who think that everyone else is spellbound by what they have to say.  What is it about old men who yell across crowded airport holding rooms and other public areas?


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## awg (19 May 2009)

kennas said:


> Sounds sus to me.
> 
> Like there's more to the story perhaps.
> 
> Lesson 2b. Don't steal crap.





From reading the link, sounds like a classic case of not paying up.

probably drunkeness, and disrespect of local people and officials as well.

I was much younger during my Asian travels, and loved it, that is why I travelled there, but I did do it on the cheap

Agree higher end travellers would not encounter these problems.

If you try to screw the locals for a few bucs, they get cranky.

I was sometimes ashamed to see blatant racism and abuse from travellers.

The Brits were the worst I personally saw.

read something long time ago saying the Thais are the "most cruel people on earth"

also said their nation has never been conquered.

Will go back as a family, as I have 3 blond haired sons, and such things are considered very good omens


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## cuttlefish (19 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> A fair point Surfer. I've only ever transited through Bangkok and Jakarta, but I always travel business or first, and have been treated with unfailing courtesy.
> 
> From speaking to Asian friends of mine, tourists in Thailand and Indonesia staying in the cheaper places and travelling coach class are considered trash, and treated so.
> 
> ...




Yeah you really get a close and unique experience of a countries culture and customs from the business class suite at the airport hotel.


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## Happy (19 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> ...
> From speaking to Asian friends of mine, tourists in Thailand and Indonesia staying in the cheaper places and travelling coach class are considered trash, and treated so.
> ...
> gg




If this is the case let them have it, travel somewhere else.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

Surfer35 said:


> Thanks Garpul, regardless of the class of travel, if only more of us travelled with your humility they would encounter the same level of service and reception you do. I've lived in many Asian countries and the advent of cheap air travel has made me embarrassed when people ask where I am from.




Thanks Surfer, I try to treat all people I deal with, with respect. 

gg



Prospector said:


> So anyone who travels economy is trash? Boy, I thought I was a snob but you guys have taken this to a new level.  And travelling economy is not synonymous with not knowing how to behave by the way.
> 
> On the other hand, I am embarassed by fellow Australians in Bali, and last year, in Vietnam by older (retired I guess), 60 year old men who think that everyone else is spellbound by what they have to say.  What is it about old men who yell across crowded airport holding rooms and other public areas?




No Prospector not everyone who travels in economy is trash. Not all swans are white either. However many who go arootin in Bangkok are trash, and they go in packs, usually in economy.



cuttlefish said:


> Yeah you really get a close and unique experience of a countries culture and customs from the business class suite at the airport hotel.




Yes cuttlefish, as you do at the other end from a Thai prison. Similar to staying in a 5 star hotel here in Australia and spending a few weeks in Goulburn Gaol.

When I travel I treat the locals with respect, and get respect in return. 

gg


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## cuttlefish (19 May 2009)

At the end of the year we should count how many threads Garpal manages to throw in a one liner about how he always travels business or first class.


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

GG, when you travel business class and stay in five star hotels, you are not seeing how the locals live at all.  You are simply mixing it with obsequious people who know that in order to extract a nice fat tip from you, they have to be sugary saccharin sweet and meet your every need.  You are a walking $ to them; as are most tourists actually, but you look as though you have a few more $$$$$$ attached than I do.


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## Sean K (19 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> GG, when you travel business class and stay in five star hotels, you are not seeing how the locals live at all.



GG may be a 'tourist' like most who go on holidays overseas. Is that right GG? Some wealthy people do do the 'travel' experience, but not many...Go on an Intrepid Travel holiday to experience 'travel'. (warning, post contains spam)


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## overit (19 May 2009)

This might have alot to do with her problems. When will western people learn. 

............



> The owner of the Aussie Bar, Steve Wood, said that he believed Ms Smoel had been abusive toward the undercover police who had stopped her in the bar.
> 
> "When they talked to her all they wanted to do was chastise her, and they usually let you go, but she did a runner on them ... the police had to chase her down the beach,'' Mr Wood said.
> 
> ...


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## Happy (19 May 2009)

overit said:


> This might have alot to do with her problems. When will western people learn.
> 
> ............





Good manners would be OK in Australia too!


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## Trevor_S (19 May 2009)

overit said:


> This might have alot to do with her problems.




That's what I was thinking, possibly, piss_ed., full of abuse and used to Ozzie coppers dealing with it and just being immune to her abuse and bad manners.  Perhaps the Aussie police should adopt the same tactics to bogans locally, crappy behaviour seems to be rewarded, accepted or ignore here rather then punished.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

kennas said:


> GG may be a 'tourist' like most who go on holidays overseas. Is that right GG? Some wealthy people do do the 'travel' experience, but not many...Go on an Intrepid Travel holiday to experience 'travel'. (warning, post contains spam)




Whenever I travel by air it is usually for business, unless someone else is paying.

I claim the costs off my tax so why shouldn't I travel business or first, its your money.

When I arrive in a foreign country it is for work purposes. I meet those who work. I often stay with colleagues in their homes and experience more of the country than most pillow biting tourists do in a lifetime.

Any holidays I take are usually to help out mates in my industry who need a hand. Then they pay the fares, and I do a bit of sightseeing, but only if I pay my own way for the sightseeing which I usually do by motorbike.

Now was this Aussie mother of 14 children pissed or not, was she a victim or a contributor, should someone let the Shapelle mob know about this?



gg


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## rowie (19 May 2009)

From my exeperience travelling in asia and thailand in particular if you are polite and reasonable you will almost never encounter any problems. I bet my last dollar that this lady had acted up in some way, resisting or abusing locals in some way - just got back from phuket last week and experienced first hand obnoxious drunk tourists treating the place and people with a level of disrespect. If your reasonable and enough you the locals will treat you fair. They rely heavily on your tourist dollar after all. If you do a 'runner' like this woman did then you will get what you deserve. Considering the activities that tourists get up to in places like these, it is amazing what they get away with and the level of tolerance the locals have for them!!!


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## awg (19 May 2009)

You have to be careful when you get on the p!ss in Thailand.

there national sport is muay thai 

they love to demonstrate, especially if they know you have done martial arts.

Friendly sparing, but easy to get hurt

A guy at my hostel got his nose busted mucking around.

A mate of mine was an amateur boxer, and he got the **** beat out of him, over some sort of drink induced disagreement


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

Trevor_S said:


> That's what I was thinking, possibly, piss_ed., full of abuse and used to Ozzie coppers dealing with it and just being immune to her abuse and bad manners.  Perhaps the Aussie police should adopt the same tactics to bogans locally, crappy behaviour seems to be rewarded, accepted or ignore here rather then punished.






rowie said:


> From my exeperience travelling in asia and thailand in particular if you are polite and reasonable you will almost never encounter any problems. I bet my last dollar that this lady had acted up in some way, resisting or abusing locals in some way - just got back from phuket last week and experienced first hand obnoxious drunk tourists treating the place and people with a level of disrespect. If your reasonable and enough you the locals will treat you fair. They rely heavily on your tourist dollar after all. If you do a 'runner' like this woman did then you will get what you deserve. Considering the activities that tourists get up to in places like these, it is amazing what they get away with and the level of tolerance the locals have for them!!!






awg said:


> You have to be careful when you get on the p!ss in Thailand.
> 
> there national sport is muay thai
> 
> ...




I had a look at the pictures of she and her family on the SMH.

She doesn't look like a bogan.

gg


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## Conza88 (19 May 2009)

To sum up the situation: tyranny.

There is no level of proportionality in the punishment. It moves from JUSTICE to KIDNAPPING (on behalf of the authorities)

*Punishment and Proportionality by Murray N. Rothbard*

_Chapter 13 of The Ethics of Liberty._



> If, then, proportionality sets the upper bound to punishment, how may we establish proportionality itself? The first point is that the emphasis in punishment must be not on paying one's debt to "society," whatever that may mean, but in paying one's "debt" to the victim. Certainly, the initial part of that debt is restitution. This works clearly in cases of theft. If A has stolen $15,000 from B, then the first, or initial, part of A's punishment must be to restore that $15,000 to the hands of B (plus damages, judicial and police costs, and interest foregone).





> We must note that the emphasis of restitution-punishment is diametrically opposite to the current practice of punishment. What happens nowadays is the following absurdity: A steals $15,000 from B. The government tracks down, tries, and convicts A, all at the expense of B, as one of the numerous taxpayers victimized in this process. Then, the government, instead of forcing A to repay B or to work at forced labor until that debt is paid, forces B, the victim, to pay taxes to support the criminal in prison for ten or twenty years' time. *Where in the world is the justice here?* The victim not only loses his money, but pays more money besides for the dubious thrill of catching, convicting, and then supporting the criminal; and the criminal is still enslaved, but not to the good purpose of recompensing his victim.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

Conza88 said:


> To sum up the situation: tyranny.
> 
> There is no level of proportionality in the punishment. It moves from JUSTICE to KIDNAPPING (on behalf of the authorities)
> 
> ...




So, in your opinion what should we do ?

Send gunboats ????

gg


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## overit (19 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I had a look at the pictures of she and her family on the SMH.
> 
> She doesn't look like a bogan.
> 
> gg




Is that young tacker sporting a mullet? 

IMAGES


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## Agentm (19 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Whenever I travel by air it is usually for business, unless someone else is paying.
> 
> I claim the costs off my tax so why shouldn't I travel business or first, its your money.
> 
> ...




lol

the idea of getting caught on your worst moment. pissed and making real unwise decisions. then it becomes a national media circus story.. 

i bet they were obnoxious as hell that night, and when they were seen to be pinching their property, they got what was coming to them..

the 7:30 time slot news vermin will do the story justice 

cant think of anything to add other than when visiting a country, remember your a guest there, and you must behave.. if you run with the bulls then your got to consider getting hurt..


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## Conza88 (19 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> So, in your opinion what should we do ?
> 
> Send gunboats ????
> 
> gg




Backdoor diplomatic talks, stern pressure, behind the scenes. 

If that doesn't work.. Denounce the regime for what it is. 

No gunboats, lol.


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## Stan 101 (19 May 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> Yeah you really get a close and unique experience of a countries culture and customs from the business class suite at the airport hotel.




Well you learn a lot from fingerfood from the bain marie in the business lounge or from the massage technique in the firsts lounge 

I'm with surfer on having to try really hard to upset a local on Bangla Rd. The report states that the woman abused the officers and then the police chief. I hope she adjusts quickly to prison life or finds a way for these people to regain face in the eyes of their peers.

As for payment, I see nothing different to taxes or fines here. The police often need to supply their own uniforms or vehicle and the like. When in Rome...eat pasta. If you don't like it and can't respect local customs, stay home.


Cheers,


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## Happy (19 May 2009)

Conza88 said:


> Backdoor diplomatic talks, stern pressure, behind the scenes.
> 
> If that doesn't work.. Denounce the regime for what it is.
> 
> No gunboats, lol.





Woman hurling abuse at police should expect some punishment and it should not be allowed in Australia either.


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

If the police were undercover, maybe she didnt realise they were police?  She didnt look the least bit bogan to me, quite the opposite.


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## pilots (19 May 2009)

On CH10 just now, the other side of the story from the bar owner, she was seen by two under cover police roll up the bar mat and place it in her bag, when they approached her she ran, she has screwed up big time, what has made it worse for her is having her mates  here in Australis say it was not her, sorry she is going to jail.


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## robots (19 May 2009)

hello,

yobbo yuppie

thankyou
robots


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## awg (19 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> If the police were undercover, maybe she didnt realise they were police?  She didnt look the least bit bogan to me, quite the opposite.




She probably should have guessed once she was at Police Station

To quote myself from earlier NEVER cause an asian official to lose face.

common cause of problem, Matt Johns, Clair, Oz mum..to much grog.

her voice sounded bogan on a tv clip, but that could be stress

even in good old Oz, people sometimes have to plead guilty, to save facing a longer time in remand.

at least she is out on bail


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## Happy (19 May 2009)

robots said:


> yobbo yuppie




What do you mean?


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## overit (19 May 2009)

Cant see why everyone is caught up on the bogan thing. Snobby little rich brats can be some of the worst throwers of temper tantrums.

Example - Naomi Campbell


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## robots (19 May 2009)

hello,

spot on overit

yobbo yuppie, scum, well dressed boozehead, 

the average joe who bangs it is nicer than these people

thankyou
robots


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## nunthewiser (19 May 2009)

is a bogan and proud

i love youse all


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## nunthewiser (19 May 2009)

personally thinks a jail term rather harsh BUT also understands the bar owners view also ...... some toxic female running amok in your establishment then nicking your property .. some tourists should bloody well learn how to behave when drinking ., in fact not just tourists , everybody that gets a skinful then decides its there given right to act like a numnut!


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## Prospector (19 May 2009)

If you put the behaviour stuff to one side, are some of you actually suggesting that you should plead guilty to a crime in Thailand, knowing that there is a jail sentence, even if you didnt do it?


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## awg (19 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> If you put the behaviour stuff to one side, are some of you actually suggesting that you should plead guilty to a crime in Thailand, knowing that there is a jail sentence, even if you didnt do it?




No. 

qualifiers

better get a lawyer son, better get a real good one.

and the conviction rate for contested trials in some Asian countries is almost 100%

dont know how the Thai legal system works

but I do know if you steal the slightest thing from a Buddhist Temple, 5 yrs

She is probably hoping consular negotiation will do the trick, and I suspect it may, as this one is an ugly look for Thai Tourism.

If I was the hubby, I would be also be trying to make a personal apology to the police chief, and probably have my lawyer offer a big donation to the "Police Widows and Orphans Fund"


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## nunthewiser (19 May 2009)

awg said:


> No.
> 
> If I was the hubby, I would be also be trying to make a personal apology to the police chief, and probably have my lawyer offer a big donation to the "Police Widows and Orphans Fund"





OR her hubby is thanking his lucky stars that finally his boozehound thieving missus has finally been taught a lesson in alcohol etiquette


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## MrBurns (19 May 2009)

It was a $20 slops mat, these people dont deserve tourists.

Why isnt there a travel warnng out ?


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## nunthewiser (19 May 2009)

i would like to point out my last post was merely meant as a giggle and im sure her hubby loves her dearly and will not use this episode to gain full custody of his kids because of his alcoholic criminal wife


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## pilots (19 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> If you put the behaviour stuff to one side, are some of you actually suggesting that you should plead guilty to a crime in Thailand, knowing that there is a jail sentence, even if you didnt do it?




The trouble here is that she was caught red handed, that means she gets jail time no matter who she is.


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## cuttlefish (19 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> If you put the behaviour stuff to one side, are some of you actually suggesting that you should plead guilty to a crime in Thailand, knowing that there is a jail sentence, even if you didnt do it?




There's a big difference between 'pleading guilty' and expediently offering financial compensation for the inconvenience suffered by the parties involved.

I didn't do it  you "%@#$@#@#$


I apologise for the actions of my friends and would humbly like to offer compensation for the inconvenience caused.


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## pilots (19 May 2009)

And by the way in Thailand saying sorry I was drunk at the time will go against her big time. When in Thailand you must abide by their laws, not ours, she is going to JAIL.


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## awg (19 May 2009)

pilots said:


> And by the way in Thailand saying sorry I was drunk at the time will go against her big time. When in Thailand you must abide by their laws, not ours, she is going to JAIL.




Not necessarily.

In the case I mentioned earlier, that was quite similar to this, the young lady returned home after about 2 weeks in jail.

the family definitely paid money

it was a very long time ago now, but I remember that her brother and father were both Police officers, and they went over.

I reckon charges will be withdrawn.

(they let out the dude that "insulted" the royal family)

unless people play their cards wrong, or dont pay

hopefully the dude can re-mortgage.

worst case scenario, they decide to make an example of her.


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## nomore4s (19 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> It was a $20 slops mat, these people dont deserve tourists.
> 
> Why isnt there a travel warnng out ?




I don't think the problem was the bar mat, the owner doesn't seemed to concerned about it. Abusing officials in a country like Thailand is probably not the smartest thing to do.

If the Aust govt had to issue travel warnings everytime an Aussie makes a goose of themselves while overseas and on the piss there would be travel warnings to every country in the world


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## MrBurns (19 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I don't think the problem was the bar mat, the owner doesn't seemed to concerned about it. Abusing officials in a country like Thailand is probably not the smartest thing to do.
> 
> If the Aust govt had to issue travel warnings everytime an Aussie makes a goose of themselves while overseas and on the piss there would be travel warnings to every country in the world




5 years jail for stealing that ?, even if you are pissed, and just how pissed and abusive would this mid thirties mother a 4 ? be ?

All tourists OUT, see how that like that little trick.


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## Julia (19 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> It was a $20 slops mat, these people dont deserve tourists.
> 
> Why isnt there a travel warnng out ?



Do we need to have official travel warnings just to advise people to be polite?

I expect if she had pleasantly asked the bar manager if she could take the mat as a souvenir of her wonderful holiday in his wonderful country, there would have been smiles all round and happy agreement.

Attitude is everything.


----------



## MrBurns (19 May 2009)

Julia said:


> Do we need to have official travel warnings just to advise people to be polite?
> 
> I expect if she had pleasantly asked the bar manager if she could take the mat as a souvenir of her wonderful holiday in his wonderful country, there would have been smiles all round and happy agreement.
> 
> Attitude is everything.




If 5 years jail is the punishment for what she did yes, we do need warnings.

You can say what you like to Australian police and you get "understanding", they go too far we dont go far enough.


----------



## MrBurns (19 May 2009)

I'll tell you something else . I've never been there and if it's like that I wont go ever, if you make one mistake you could find yourself in a hellish prison for years.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 May 2009)

i have been to thailand twice 

i got drunk both times

i didnt steal anything nor disrespect any local law enforcement officers

i paid for ALL souvenirs 

I didnt get arrested 

mmmm moral to story ??

behave yourself and show respect in a foreign country?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

This thread is too full of  common sense.

Could someone please let the Shapelle mob know about it so that we can have their take on it.

gg


----------



## nomore4s (19 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> 5 years jail for stealing that ?, even if you are pissed, and just how pissed and abusive would this mid thirties mother a 4 ? be ?
> 
> All tourists OUT, see how that like that little trick.




She hasn't been found guilty yet and even if she is I doubt they will give her 5 years. She could be given just a warning or even found not guilty. She has also been released on bail - IMO I can't see anything unreasonable about how the Thai police have acted so far.
If the stories about her abusing the police are true it is her own fault for the position she is in, I have no doubt she would have been let off with a warning if she had just said sorry.

I have seen plenty of mid thirties mothers of 4 get very drunk and very abusive. 



MrBurns said:


> I'll tell you something else . I've never been there and if it's like that I wont go ever, if you make one mistake you could find yourself in a hellish prison for years.




lol, a bit of an over reaction don't you think? 1,000's of other Aussie tourists go over there every year and how often do you hear of something like this? And when you do the offender has usually done something stupid.

Just because you get away with things like that here in Aust doesn't mean you can in other countries, we are too soft here but are then stupid enough to whinge about how 'unfair' things are in other countries when we break their laws and carry on like spoilt little brats.

This won't stop me traveling to countries like Thailand.


----------



## nomore4s (19 May 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> mmmm moral to story ??
> 
> behave yourself and show respect in a foreign country?




Bingo


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2009)

Who's going to look after her 14 kids while she is in gaol. That seems unfair to me.

gg


----------



## pilots (19 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> This thread is too full of  common sense.
> 
> Could someone please let the Shapelle mob know about it so that we can have their take on it.
> 
> gg




GG, Don't wake up wacko zako again, we don't want to start that all over again.


----------



## jono1887 (20 May 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Who's going to look after her 14 kids while she is in gaol. That seems unfair to me.
> 
> gg




she shouldve thought of that before she decided to steal something, and then abuse local authorities, i mean what i kind of parent is she if she still hasnt learnt that stealing = gaol


----------



## overit (20 May 2009)

Andrew Bolt's view on things. He has some good points... worth a looksy. Schapelle Corby fans probably shouldnt read it.

Full Article - Andrew Bolt - Lay off moral lectures to Thais



> ANNICE Smoel needs our help. So let's lay off giving our usual moral lectures to the Thais.
> 
> Given the kind of Australians they see in Patpong, Pattaya and Phuket - and who I've talked to in their jails - I doubt they'd be impressed.
> 
> ...


----------



## Calliope (20 May 2009)

We have long been conditioned to believe that to show the ugly face of Australia overseas is the norm.


----------



## Sean K (20 May 2009)

Calliope said:


> We have long been conditioned to believe that to show the ugly face of Australia overseas is the norm.



No, it still embarrasses me when Aussies turn up over here and act like gooses. Once we are in a pack, it can turn pretty ugly. Many people think Americans are loud....It is not the norm however. I have a semi unbiased opinion that Aussies are well respected overseas. Or, maybe they are just relieved when I say 'pais de Kangaroo' with my hands cocked sillily in front of my face like skippy, instead of 'Americano'.


----------



## Sean K (20 May 2009)

Golly, she's apparantly claiming that her friends stuffed the slop mat in her bag as a 'joke'.



> Mrs Smoel, who was partying with a group of about 10 friends, claimed two of the women stuffed a bar mat in her handbag as a joke.




http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,25510657-27977,00.html

Yeah, right. 

Does it take '2 women' to stuff a bar mat in a handbag? Must have been a big f'n bar mat!

This story has more holes than a crumpet.


----------



## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

It seems to me she had a bad case of being a "loud american". It's very much like when americans used to say "hey you can't do that to me, i'm american". People tend to forgot that when you're overseas, being an "australian" means nothing! 

 I can understand people are on holidays and feeling a bit loose, but being beyond obnoxious is not good manners, no matter what country one is in or from. What ever happened to the thought that when traveling overseas, you were an ambassador of your country. 

Personally, I think she'll be freed soon enough. Perhaps get stuck there a few more weeks, just enough to teach a lesson about respect from one human to another.


----------



## cuttlefish (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> Personally, I think she'll be freed soon enough. Perhaps get stuck there a few more weeks, just enough to teach a lesson about respect from one human to another.






It'll be interesting to see what happens - I wouldn't bank on her being released easily - and I don't think she's helping her case by bringing up a media storm over it.   

The more she openly criticises Thai authorities the more difficult she makes it for them to release her and still save face at the same time. People in foreign countries also need to realise that there is probably not much the Australian government can do in these situations.   If a Thai citizen was locked up for being aggressive in Australia nobody would expect the Aust Government to turn around and release them just because the Thai government asked them to.  

She needs to deal with this in Thailand and I can't see it helping her case to bring media attention to it and turn it into an Australia vs Thailand thing.  The last thinig the Thai government would want is to give the impression that they'd let the Australian government or Australia push them around.  The more the Thai public perceives that Australia is pressuring for her release or criticising their country, culture or legal system, the more likely it is that they will apply their legal system stringently and unsympathetically.

By not resolving it at the time of arrest she has got herself caught up in the legal system - this could drag on for a long time.

Regardless of her behaviour which sounds quite stupid and disrespectful in the circumstances, I do think it would be tragic for her to end up in a Thai prison for 5 years over it and really unfair on her children.


----------



## Stan 101 (20 May 2009)

overit said:


> Andrew Bolt's view on things. He has some good points... worth a looksy. Schapelle Corby fans probably shouldnt read it.
> 
> Full Article - Andrew Bolt - Lay off moral lectures to Thais




Terrific report by Andrew Bolt. Reminds me of an Australian girl I once saw abuse and old lady after being charged 30 baht per KG for the washing, ironing and folding of her laundry. Apparently a few years earlier it had only cost 25 Baht per KG.


----------



## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

I whole heartedly agree. She also needs to publicly accept responsibility for her actions and an genuine apology wouldn't go astray either. 





cuttlefish said:


> The more she openly criticises Thai authorities the more difficult she makes it for them to release her and still save face at the same time. People in foreign countries also need to realise that there is probably not much the Australian government can do in these situations.   If a Thai citizen was locked up for being aggressive in Australia nobody would expect the Aust Government to turn around and release them just because the Thai government asked them to.
> 
> She needs to deal with this in Thailand


----------



## Prospector (20 May 2009)

Ok, it sounds like a case of bad behaviour and drunkeness, again.  Huge consequences though.  Legally, the only thing she has been charged with is the theft of the mat; yet the owner isnt pressing charges.  So why is she still waiting for Court and being held on bail if she hasnt been charged with anything else?

People do things when on holidays, things they know would land them in jail in Australia. Or take risks that we know have a good chance of ending up in hospital - where the activities we do are not illegal but not safe.  Why do we do that?

I havent been to Thailand although a member of my family has.  His friend had an incident which could have gone really nasty, well, it did anyway but not legally; but thankfully they immediately sought the assistance of a local lawyer who followed procedure humbly and appropriately it seems.


----------



## Calliope (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> People tend to forgot that when you're overseas, being an "australian" means nothing!




Yes. Try making a smartarse comment to an official at an American customs checkpoint and you will see how far being an Australian gets you. The full body search is not pleasant, but it does improve your manners.


----------



## cuttlefish (20 May 2009)

Stan 101]Terrific report by Andrew Bolt. Reminds me of an Australian girl I once saw abuse and old lady after being charged 30 baht per KG for the washing said:


> His friend had an incident which could have gone really nasty, well, it did anyway but not legally; but thankfully they immediately sought the _assistance of a local lawyer _who followed procedure humbly and appropriately it seems.




This underlines the fact that there are right ways and wrong ways of doing things.  After the Schappelle Corby situation you'd think that some kind of lessons would have sunk in, but here we see the same pattern again.  
She has engaged an Australian lawyer ... well that will help her just as much as if a Latvian on assault charges in Sydney hired a Latvian lawyer.

The Australian lawyer then repeats the same pattern of idiocy by immediately and publicly confronting the authorities and denying the charges and her abusive behaviour. Encouraging her to publicly apologise for her behaviour (something she can quite easily do without admitting any guilt) would be a far better course of action I would have thought.


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

The drinks are obviously too cheap over there allowing poor people to get drunk and show their bad manners, turn all the establishments into 5 star joints and then only gentlemen of the calibere of gg and mysrlf will be able to afford to go there, problem solved.


----------



## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

The  statement below kind of sums it up. Not picking on you, but by saying that, you're thinking like an australian, and you're assuming the same laws and standards here are relevent there. 

And that my friends, is why people get into trouble over seas. The laws here mean nothing...they are not applicable. 




Prospector said:


> Ok, it sounds like a case of bad behaviour and drunkeness, again.  Huge consequences though.  Legally, the only thing she has been charged with is the theft of the mat; yet the owner isnt pressing charges.  So why is she still waiting for Court and being held on bail if she hasnt been charged with anything else?


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> The  statement below kind of sums it up. Not picking on you, but by saying that, you're thinking like an australian, and you're assuming the same laws and standards here are relevent there.
> 
> And that my friends, is why people get into trouble over seas. The laws here mean nothing...they are not applicable.




Well then it's the job of the Dept Of Foreign Affairs to make sure we know about the barabarian laws that govern these places so we can prepare.

At least the travel agents should issue warnings.


----------



## Mr J (20 May 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> The more she openly criticises Thai authorities the more difficult she makes it for them to release her and still save face at the same time.




"When in Rome...". Given how important it is to be polite and respectful in Asia, being loud and critical isn't going to do her any favours. We'd complain about other countries butting into our legal system, yet we insist on intruding on those of other countries.



			
				MrBurns said:
			
		

> The drinks are obviously too cheap over there allowing poor people to get drunk and show their bad manners




Poorly-behaved people, not _poor_ people.


----------



## nomore4s (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Well then it's the job of the Dept Of Foreign Affairs to make sure we know about the barabarian laws that govern these places so we can prepare.
> 
> At least the travel agents should issue warnings.




I'm pretty sure there is already info available on the laws of various countries through the Govt - isn't there an ad on TV about it?

Anyway ignorance is no excuse.

The fact is she was caught in possession of stolen property and then proceeded to run away - this isn't acceptable behaviour here in Aust I'm not sure why she thinks it is ok over there.

The bar mats were on sale so even if her friends did place it in her bag as a joke (which I doubt - if they had got away with it I doubt they would have returned it to the bar) it isn't a very funny joke and it is outright theft.


----------



## nomore4s (20 May 2009)

I find it somewhat amusing that we whinge about the soft sentances handed out here in OZ but when an Aussie gets into trouble overseas we also whinge about the tougher sentances handed out.


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I find it somewhat amusing that we whinge about the soft sentances handed out here in OZ but when an Aussie gets into trouble overseas we also whinge about the tougher sentances handed out.




Tough sentence ok, stupid fundamentalist Muslim Sharia law type stupidity is something else.


----------



## Sean K (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I find it somewhat amusing that we whinge about the soft sentances handed out here in OZ but when an Aussie gets into trouble overseas we also whinge about the tougher sentances handed out.



Yeah, I agree, and the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

20 years for some hash?
Probation for rape?

What the?


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

kennas said:


> Probation for rape?
> 
> What the?




Yes and stoning for the person who was raped because they obviously asked for it.


----------



## Mr J (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I find it somewhat amusing that we whinge about the soft sentances handed out here in OZ but when an Aussie gets into trouble overseas we also whinge about the tougher sentances handed out.




Because they're usually opposite ends of the spectrum. There's a lot of middle ground in between.


----------



## awg (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Well then it's the job of the Dept Of Foreign Affairs to make sure we know about the barabarian laws that govern these places so we can prepare.
> 
> At least the travel agents should issue warnings.




Hi Mr B,

I will issue a warning.

If you are involved in a Car accident in many parts of Asia, and it is not obviously the other persons fault, you are responsible.

If you cant ( or wont) pay required compo, you are in BIG trouble.

In PNG, if you dont pay, the locals might machette you


----------



## happytown (20 May 2009)

> ...
> 
> The owner of the Aussie Bar, Steve Wood, said that he believed *Ms Smoel* had been abusive toward the undercover police who had stopped her in the bar.
> 
> ...



what's in a name (if said thrice quickly)

cheers


----------



## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

There is nothing muslin, sharia or barbaric about their laws. That statement stinks of ignorance. Differences does not equate to stupid nor barbaric. 





MrBurns said:


> Tough sentence ok, stupid fundamentalist Muslim Sharia law type stupidity is something else.


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> There is nothing muslin, sharia or barbaric about their laws. That statement stinks of ignorance. Differences does not equate to stupid nor barbaric.




Any law that threatens to put you in jail for 5 years for stealing a bar mat and being rude to the police is barbaric.

Your lack of common sense stinks of ignorance.


----------



## Conza88 (20 May 2009)

Happy said:


> Woman hurling abuse at police should expect some punishment and it should not be allowed in Australia either.




Abuse, verbal? It offends someones sensibilities? So arbitrary! 

Let's legislate against words ? lol  !

I guess you support Sedition laws aswell?


----------



## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Any law that threatens to put you in jail for 5 years for stealing a bar mat and being rude to the police is barbaric.
> 
> Your lack of common sense stinks of ignorance.




hey in some countries she could of had her hands lopped off


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

> :
> Originally Posted by Happy
> Woman hurling abuse at police should expect some punishment and it should not be allowed in Australia either.




Agree, should be charged with offensive behavior, here in Australia as well.

 People get away with to much in AU these days, in the old days you'd get a thick ear for calling a policeman a "cop" if you called him a "pig" you would be eating your pork liquefied, through a straw while your new teeth were being made up.


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> hey in some countries she could of had her hands lopped off




Yeah and some countries should be nuked then repopulated later with human beings not pig ignorant human mutants.


----------



## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Yeah and some countries should be nuked then repopulated later with human beings not pig ignorant human mutants.





lol unreal.......... love ya work burnsy


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> lol unreal.......... love ya work burnsy





We could list the countries that qualify but that would be nasty, therefore I will not mention New Zealand


----------



## nomore4s (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Any law that threatens to put you in jail for 5 years for stealing a bar mat and being rude to the police is barbaric.






MrBurns said:


> Agree, should be charged with offensive behavior, here in Australia as well.
> 
> People get away with to much in AU these days, in the old days you'd get a thick ear for calling a policeman a "cop" if you called him a "pig" you would be eating your pork liquefied, through a straw while your new teeth were being made up.




LOL, Does anyone else find these two statements contradict each other?


----------



## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> LOL, Does anyone else find these two statements contradict each other?






hahahahah not sayin nuffing . enjoying his rabid rantings


----------



## overit (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Yeah and some countries should be nuked then repopulated later with human beings not pig ignorant human mutants.




Lets start with the US.

U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations

..................

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes ”” from writing bad checks to using drugs ”” that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.


----------



## Knobby22 (20 May 2009)

Just to clear some ignorance.

Thailand is not a Muslim country.
Their legal system is a lot like ours with similar punishments.
The woman involved stole the towel which was available for sale.
The owner thought she was thief.
She abused and resisted arrest when the police appeared.
She and her friends tried to bribe the police (how low can you go).
She will be very unlucky to spend even one more day day in jail. 

This is the biggest beatup ever by some awful sections of the media and is pandering to racism.
I think she is abhorrent.


----------



## Happy (20 May 2009)

overit said:


> ...
> The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.
> 
> Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes ”” from writing bad checks to using drugs ”” that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.
> ...





On the positive note, there would not be as many in jail if you exclude african americans, south americans local indians and folk from middle east.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> The drinks are obviously too cheap over there allowing poor people to get drunk and show their bad manners, turn all the establishments into 5 star joints and then only gentlemen of the calibere of gg and mysrlf will be able to afford to go there, problem solved.




I didn't dare mention that burnsie in case the old cuttlefish got his Lowes underdax in a knot. But its true, if one of these countries catered for tourism to decent people to travel to on holidays, not necessarily loaded people like you and me, they would make a killing, excuse the pun. 

gg


----------



## overit (20 May 2009)

I worked in hotel maintenance for 5 years, mostly 5 star here in Oz and I can tell you it pays to be loud and obnoxious. If it was up to me I would turf them out on their ear but the hotel mantra is to keep people happy. We were told it doesnt matter how big the problem is but how much the guest reacts. So if you make a big noise you will get heaps of free stuff and treated much better, just to shut you up. This breeds a bad culture. Reading the daily log was a real eye opener.

The big difference is if you try this on the cops it doesnt work because they are not trying to keep their reputation or your business.

There is a hotel in Port Douglas that I would be nice to the maintenance men. When I worked there if a guest continued to be obnoxious we would wait longer before we turned up. Sometime hours even if we werent doing anything. We live in a twisted society where you get rewarded for being an ass and this should change!


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> LOL, Does anyone else find these two statements contradict each other?




LOL *no they don't*, read them again, or do I have to explain it to you.

We have lax laws here , thanks to civil libertarians who should be locked up

Other countries are too harsh.


----------



## Joe Blow (20 May 2009)

Looks like I got in and removed some posts just before the brawl broke out.

A word of warning not directed to anyone in particular: If you can't debate the issue without personal attacks please don't post.

Now, please carry on... without insulting each other! Thank you!


----------



## Stan 101 (20 May 2009)

So if this girl is out on bail, what are her chances of getting to Singapore or KL overland without a passport? Cambodia, Laos and Burma probably wouldn't be the best countries to run to.

Plenty of boats around Phuket Island and in the Gulf of Thailand. Would that be a possibility?


What would you do in her situation right now? Would you stay and hope for the best or would you try to make it to another country and seek council at the Embassy?


Cheers,


----------



## nomore4s (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> LOL *no they don't*, read them again, or do I have to explain it to you.
> 
> We have lax laws here , thanks to civil libertarians who should be locked up
> 
> Other countries are too harsh.




lol, it was more that you find a 5 year prison sentence for theft is barbaric but a policeman beating someone up is okay.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 May 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> So if this girl is out on bail, what are her chances of getting to Singapore or KL overland without a passport? Cambodia, Laos and Burma probably wouldn't be the best countries to run to.
> 
> Plenty of boats around Phuket Island and in the Gulf of Thailand. Would that be a possibility?
> 
> ...




That is a very difficult question to answer and one I am sure the Smoels may be grappling with.

I've never been to Thailand.

You could certainly do it in Europe, Africa or the former Eastern Bloc of Europe.

I guess the problem would be finding someone to trust.

gg


----------



## Stan 101 (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> lol, it was more that you find a 5 year prison sentence for theft barbaric but a policeman beating someone up is okay.




It is quite a bizarre juxtaposition. And an amusing one.

cheers,


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> lol, it was more that you find a 5 year prison sentence for theft barbaric but a policeman beating someone up is okay.




Please, please, a clip over the ear is not beating anyone up, losing your teeth was an exageration the point is the police were respected back then not now thanks to Mrs Doubtfire to a great extent here in Vic.

Dont you find a 5 year sentence for a $20 theft barbaric ?

Where do you live ? Iran ?


----------



## Bushman (20 May 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> Just to clear some ignorance.
> 
> Thailand is not a Muslim country.
> Their legal system is a lot like ours with similar punishments.
> ...




Well said mate. These Herald-Scum 'yellow peril' stories do get tiresome after awhile.


----------



## Knobby22 (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Please, please, a clip over the ear is not beating anyone up, losing your teeth was an exageration the point is the police were respected back then not now thanks to Mrs Doubtfire to a great extent here in Vic.
> 
> Dont you find a 5 year sentence for a $20 theft barbaric ?
> 
> Where do you live ? Iran ?




She's not going to get 5 years.
Australian laws say the same thing. No one ever gets it. 
She will probably not see the inside of a prison again and just get fined even though she resisted arrest and attempted to bribe the police.
Stop listening to shock jocks.


----------



## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> She's not going to get 5 years.
> Australian laws say the same thing. No one ever gets it.
> She will probably not see the inside of a prison again and get fined even though she resisted arrest and attempted to bribe the police.
> Stop listening to shock jocks.




You can only get info from whats fed to us here.

She sounds fairly stressed for someone who's not in deep trouble.


----------



## happytown (20 May 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> So if this girl is out on bail, what are her chances of getting to Singapore or KL overland without a passport?
> 
> ...






Garpal Gumnut said:


> ...
> 
> I guess the problem would be finding someone to trust.




an aussie employing the services of a people smuggler

mmmmmmmmmmmm

priceless

cheers


----------



## Stan 101 (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Dont you find a 5 year sentence for a $20 theft barbaric ?




No, considering it can be as much as a months wages locally. If the owner wasn't present and the bar mat went missing, the poor local in charge would most likely have been forced to pay for the mat, be sacked or both. Put into that context and with no social support to fall back to makes that in itself very serious.

The issue is not the theft of a bar mat, though. By all accounts woman's contempt for the authorities is what has caused the issue. With the worldwide news of the Australian author getting a lucky break for insulting the royal family still relatively fresh in people's minds, one would have expected a touch more decorum to authorities. I suppose it comes down to personalities, though.

cheers,


----------



## Prospector (20 May 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> What would you do in her situation right now? Would you stay and hope for the best or would you try to make it to another country and seek council at the Embassy?
> Cheers,




I think I would be making a very humble apology, saying that I was confused and am embarassed at the way I behaved and apologise to the Police for doing their duty.  I wouldnt admit that I had stolen the mat, I wouldnt even refer to it.


----------



## nomore4s (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Please, please, a clip over the ear is not beating anyone up, losing your teeth was an exageration the point is the police were respected back then not now thanks to Mrs Doubtfire to a great extent here in Vic.
> 
> Dont you find a 5 year sentence for a $20 theft barbaric ?
> 
> Where do you live ? Iran ?




lol, I know you were talking a bit tongue in cheek but I just found the difference in the statements funny.

While I do think a 5 year sentence for what she did is over the top, I don't think she will receive the full penalty - she would be extremely unlucky if that is what happens.
It is a bit like here where the max penalty for an offence is say 5 years but the offender normally walks away with a slap on the wrist. The law she has been charged under probably doesn't differentiate between stealing a $20 item or a $1,000 item, it is still theft, the courts though will probably not hand down the same penalties for the 2.


----------



## Happy (20 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> I think I would be making a very humble apology, saying that I was confused and am embarassed at the way I behaved and apologise to the Police for doing their duty.  I wouldnt admit that I had stolen the mat, I wouldnt even refer to it.





Just remembered something, that a lot of cases in Australia are quashed because of mental state of the offender, would it work in another country?


----------



## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

Why? What has the US got to do with this? Why why why is the US mentioned in every slightly controversial subject? 

I'm hapyy to have a discussion about US the and their penile system, but it truely has no bearing on anything relating to this case. Create a new thread if you want to bash the US on their prison system.




overit said:


> Lets start with the US.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> Why? What has the US got to do with this? Why why why is the US mentioned in every slightly controversial subject?
> 
> I'm hapyy to have a discussion about US the and their *penile* system, but it truely has no bearing on anything relating to this case. Create a new thread if you want to bash the US on their prison system.




The US penile system depends mainly on Viagra mate.

gg


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## awg (20 May 2009)

Joe Blow said:


> Looks like I got in and removed some posts just before the brawl broke out.
> 
> A word of warning not directed to anyone in particular: If you can't debate the issue without personal attacks please don't post.
> 
> Now, please carry on... without insulting each other! Thank you!





Damm, they are my favorite bits, and I missed them.

While I was in Bangkok, some people from my hostel went over to Krabi prison  ( i think that is the name), to see the Aussies and Kiwis who were locked up.

The idea was to take food, books, money etc.

The guards had to be payed of course

I didnt go, I cant remember why, but gave a lady things to take over.

there is quite a few locked up over there

I am sure they are considering doing a runner from the country, but this would be too difficult and costly IMO, better to get the local lawyers, not that blustering Oz c0ckhead I saw on TV this morning.

I dont know enough about Thai culture to be sure, but in most places a sincere and abject apology, plus appropriate compo, will sort out most problems


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## rowie (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> It was a $20 slops mat, these people dont deserve tourists.
> 
> Why isnt there a travel warnng out ?




These people? The woman stole the mat from an aussie bar owned by an aussie. The police report was made by the bar owner, not a local. Maybe the aussie bar in phuket doesnt deserve tourists, only the locally owned ones!


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## scanspeak (20 May 2009)

Personally I'm sick and tired of the embarrasing, and drunken behaviour of Aussies in foreign lands. 
I'm old-fashioned enough to think that when you travel, you are an ambassador for your country. Drunken idiots like her (and her friends) who disrespect foreign laws and etiquette, get ZERO sympathy from me. And what sort of mother gets blind drunk?
A few months in jail would hopefully send a strong message to other bogan travellers.


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## overit (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> Why? What has the US got to do with this? Why why why is the US mentioned in every slightly controversial subject?
> 
> I'm hapyy to have a discussion about US the and their penile system, but it truely has no bearing on anything relating to this case. Create a new thread if you want to bash the US on their prison system.




Lets see we were talking about over sentencing and the country with the highest per capita ratio of people in prison is the US. I think you need to get over yourself. And the ironic thing is your post here has even less to do with the case and you are bashing me... maybe you should create a new thread to bash overit!


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

scanspeak said:


> Personally I'm sick and tired of the embarrasing, and drunken behaviour of Aussies in foreign lands.
> I'm old-fashioned enough to think that when you travel, you are an ambassador for your country. Drunken idiots like her (and her friends) who disrespect foreign laws and etiquette, get ZERO sympathy from me. And what sort of mother gets blind drunk?
> A few months in jail would hopefully send a strong message to other bogan travellers.






nunthewiser said:


> is a bogan and proud
> 
> i love youse all






nunthewiser said:


> i have been to thailand twice
> 
> i got drunk both times
> 
> ...




getting a lil sick of these blatant biggotted comments about us poor ole bogans 

go pick on single mothers instead willya !


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## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

Explain where I "bashed" you? Since when is a question a bash? It wasn't even a criticism. It was a question. 





overit said:


> I think you need to get over yourself. And the ironic thing is your post here has even less to do with the case and you are bashing me...


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

hahahahahah


thats it ! gunna book another trip to run amok and get on tv!


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## Prospector (20 May 2009)

rowie said:


> These people? The woman stole the mat from an aussie bar owned by an aussie. The police report was made by the bar owner, not a local. Maybe the aussie bar in phuket doesnt deserve tourists, only the locally owned ones!



The bar owner wasnt there when the incident happened.


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## awg (20 May 2009)

Theres plenty of rogues and thieves in Oz

I was going to add in my post that it works the same hear as well.

Its just that naked bribery is not the accepted way.

but if you f#ck up

you can deny and fight

or apologise, and ask what is required to put the matter right.

I have had to get my cheque book out a couple of times

much better than litigation

ps, u can run into plenty of trouble in USA, even at the airports


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## Joe Blow (20 May 2009)

This thread is going downhill quickly. If I see one more personal attack or borderline racist remark it will be closed.

My patience is running out...


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## xyzedarteerf (20 May 2009)

i can't believe this thread has already 1.8k views ..wow..you've been warned folks.


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## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

I'm bored let's all go over and hang out at the 711 across the road and kick some cans around.


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## Stan 101 (20 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> I think I would be making a very humble apology, saying that I was confused and am embarassed at the way I behaved and apologise to the Police for doing their duty.  I wouldnt admit that I had stolen the mat, I wouldnt even refer to it.




The fear, Prospector, is that it may just be too late for all that. 


Does anyone know how the Australian embassy in say Singapore or KL would deal with an Australian citizen lobbing up with no passport, and no entry visa for the foreign country?
Are there any penalties for an Australian citizen illegally leaving a foreign country or illegally entering a foreign country in the eyes of Australian law?

As the Australian embassys are classed as Australian soil, would a temp passport be organised to travel back into Australia proper?


cheers?


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## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> lol, I know you were talking a bit tongue in cheek but I just found the difference in the statements funny.
> 
> While I do think a 5 year sentence for what she did is over the top, I don't think she will receive the full penalty - she would be extremely unlucky if that is what happens.
> It is a bit like here where the max penalty for an offence is say 5 years but the offender normally walks away with a slap on the wrist. The law she has been charged under probably doesn't differentiate between stealing a $20 item or a $1,000 item, it is still theft, the courts though will probably not hand down the same penalties for the 2.




The media will make this worse, wonder what would have happened if they stayed out of it.


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## Knobby22 (20 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> The media will make this worse, wonder what would have happened if they stayed out of it.




Yes, if it had of been an old balding guy, no one would have even cared


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

> Thai court frees bar mat Aussie: reports
> 20th May 2009, 17:11 WST
> 
> Australian woman Annice Smoel has been released from detention in Thailand and is free to travel home, according to reports in Phuket.
> ...




cool so we all got a green light to go run amok in thailand .thank smole


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## Prospector (20 May 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> cool so we all got a green light to go run amok in thailand .thank smole




She did spend 4 days in jail; has been away from her young daughters for weeks, and has no doubt been terrified throughout the whole ordeal.  OK, she behaved really badly to start with, but I think she has well and truly paid for her crime.  Considering how we treat offenders in Australia she has feared much worse than they have.


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## MrBurns (20 May 2009)

ACA will be running around trying to bribe the guards to put her back in jail. Get a bit more mileage out of it.


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## cuttlefish (20 May 2009)

Well regardless of the why's and wherefore's its good to hear she's been let go.


I suspect The Aussie Bar won't have too much of a problem with missing beer mats for a while.


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## moXJO (20 May 2009)

I hope she doesn't come home and carry on about how she was hard done by on every network and local rag. 


I wonder if you could set up an incident in cahoots with an overseas official. Then cry to the media while you do a short stint in a prison. Then come home and sell your story to anyone and everyone for top dollar. Of course you would need to be a good looking female for maximum coin.


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## Stan 101 (20 May 2009)

Well it's good to hear she is home with her children and family. She dodged a bullet.

Be interesting to see her attitude when back on home soil and away from a 'muslim' country.


cheers,


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## gordon2007 (20 May 2009)

Yes, now she can come home an aussie blue hero, go on today tonight and all the other shows and get paid $10K. I can't wait to see her face plastered on every newspaper, magazine and tv screen. 

Oh, and can't wait for her mega book deal and tour to come out also. 




Prospector said:


> She did spend 4 days in jail; has been away from her young daughters for weeks, and has no doubt been terrified throughout the whole ordeal.


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

LOL the new spokeswoman for "TIGER BEER"

blessher lil bleedin heart


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## Prospector (20 May 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> Yes, now she can come home an aussie blue hero, go on today tonight and all the other shows and get paid $10K. I can't wait to see her face plastered on every newspaper, magazine and tv screen.
> 
> Oh, and can't wait for her mega book deal and tour to come out also.




Yep, thats the bit that sucks.  Hopefully she will just spend time with her kids and forget the $$. But I am not too sure that people are going to be all that interested in hearing what she has to say, judging by this forum, anyway.  Hope they arent, anyway.  But that wont stop the media banging on, just like they are with swine flu.


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## moXJO (20 May 2009)

Prospector said:


> But that wont stop the media banging on, just like they are with swine flu.




Is it just me, or is everything a 'life altering outrage' according to the media lately.


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## Julia (20 May 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> Be interesting to see her attitude when back on home soil and away from a 'muslim' country.
> 
> 
> cheers,



Thailand is not a muslim country.  The predominant religion is Buddhism.


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## Stan 101 (21 May 2009)

Julia said:


> Thailand is not a muslim country.  The predominant religion is Buddhism.



The irony may have been lost on you Julia.

The redneck claims of the Thai nation being Muslim earlier in the piece was my referal to ignorance. It may well have been deleted along with the other xenophobic slander.

I think I need a pm from you.


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## Garpal Gumnut (21 May 2009)

I reckon one of the Jetstar security people planted the beermat in her handbag at Sydney Airport.

gg


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## xyzedarteerf (21 May 2009)

here's the bar mat that caused all the fuss.

source


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## Julia (21 May 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> The irony may have been lost on you Julia.
> 
> The redneck claims of the Thai nation being Muslim earlier in the piece was my referal to ignorance. It may well have been deleted along with the other xenophobic slander.
> 
> I think I need a pm from you.



You need a PM from me?   Apparently you didn't wait for this.  Instead you send me a very rude and unpleasant message suggesting I should not ever contact you on the basis that my above remark about Thailand not being muslim represented my condoning Mr Burns' xenophobia.

I'd have thought the opposite.  Why else would I have taken the trouble to make the correction of a member called Stan 101 about whom I knew nothing who had apparently considered Thailand to be muslim.  

Yes, I vaguely noted the quotes around 'muslim' but - given the high incidence of inappropriate punctuation on this forum - took no notice.

And previously I had equally vaguely observed that Stan 101's avatar was the same as Sanquar's, and likewise thought no more about it.  Didn't notice that Stan's said "formerly known as Sanquar".  If you are going to change your nic, why not change the image as well so you don't confuse people?
For that matter, why change anything?

So, somehow, for my lack of attention to detail and failure to observe the irony intended I'm judged to be condoning xenophobia.  The logic escapes me.

The rudeness of the PM, however, does not.


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## MrBurns (21 May 2009)

Julia said:


> You need a PM from me?   Apparently you didn't wait for this.  Instead you send me a very rude and unpleasant message suggesting I should not ever contact you on the basis that my above remark about Thailand not being muslim represented my condoning Mr Burns' xenophobia.
> 
> I'd have thought the opposite.  Why else would I have taken the trouble to make the correction of a member called Stan 101 about whom I knew nothing who had apparently considered Thailand to be muslim.
> 
> ...




For the record I NEVER intended to refer to Thailand as Muslim, what I did say was the law that the crime and the punishment that was talked about at the time was so extreme as to be Muslim Sharia law like in it's extremity.

Rudeness is that guys specialty take no notice, like carp in a river unfortunately.

Stanly or whoever you are, you really struggle to be civil don't you, I suspect you're very, very, young, well I hope so because if you're an adult you've got problems. Just be nice.


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## Prospector (21 May 2009)

Interesting to hear the Mayor of Phuket is blaming the Bar owner (Australian) for the whole mess, and heard him quoted as saying that if the bar had been owned by a Local, then the whole thing would never have happened!  And he also paid her fine.


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## dalek (21 May 2009)

The sooner this badly behaved western tourist lapses into obscurity the better for us all.
If we never hear again about this "mother of four" and her "harmless pranks" the world will be a better place.
Regrettably, I am soon likely to be assaulted by front page magazine pics of her with grinning offspring at my supermarket checkout, but only for one issue I expect, then it will be back to Brittany and Paris wallpaper.
Roll on next fortnight *sigh*


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## gordon2007 (21 May 2009)

Could not have said it better.



dalek said:


> The sooner this badly behaved western tourist lapses into obscurity the better for us all.
> If we never hear again about this "mother of four" and her "harmless pranks" the world will be a better place.
> Regrettably, I am soon likely to be assaulted by front page magazine pics of her with grinning offspring at my supermarket checkout, but only for one issue I expect, then it will be back to Brittany and Paris wallpaper.
> Roll on next fortnight *sigh*


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## waza1960 (21 May 2009)

well she now has the ultimate punishment now known forever in the media as  "Bar Mat Mum"lol


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## helicart (21 May 2009)

She is just another piece of white trash imho.....too uneducated and obsessed with her hair and nail color to appreciate she had left Australia and was in another country, and had a duty to understand and obey its laws. 

That's the trouble with redneck progressives......they don't want to respect western history and culture....and they certainly don't want to respect or be sensitive to any other country's culture......all they want to respect is the call of hedonism, booze, drugs, and Big Brother why the hell aren't you bailing me out....

pathetic white trash cr@p.....the whole episode........Aussies that respect nothing but a view of the world through an empty bottle of scotch....

let her and her bleached ilk suffer in their panties....


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## Sean K (22 May 2009)

xyzedarteerf said:


> here's the bar mat that caused all the fuss.
> 
> source
> 
> View attachment 30443



Now that's a nice bar mat!!

No wonder she tried to nic it!


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## Calliope (22 May 2009)

I was particularly impressed with the performances of the small Annice Smoel clones. Whoever was manipulating them did a great job.


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## shag (22 May 2009)

it is a nice bar mat, but its sad how she manipulated the media or they, thailand into giving her preferential treatment, just cause she has a few sprogs, and at her age what an example to set for her kids.
we have all likely taken the odd glass from a boozer when young n dumb and at uni, but in asia especially, do the crime, do the time. a fair cop is a fair cop. must b expensive for pubs to keep replacing items.
nz went soft on crims yrs ago, now its paying for it, where the biggest growth industry is slammers, my mate is over here this week with the powers that be looking at aus private slammers.
all my mates have been busy building/designing them too, like what waste when u could put in proper roading, dams or other infastructure.


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## xyzedarteerf (22 May 2009)

Calliope said:


> I was particularly impressed with the performances of the small Annice Smoel clones. Whoever was manipulating them did a great job.




HAHA..true i thought i was watching a Hollywood movie drama script.


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## Aussiejeff (22 May 2009)

xyzedarteerf said:


> *here's the bar mat* that caused all the fuss.
> 
> source
> 
> View attachment 30443




The best pieces are at each end...


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## Agentm (22 May 2009)

she admits to the crime in thailand, pleads guilty, then heads back.

her stupidity and her crime costing the earth in diplomatic/embassy costs, and as far as i am concerned there are far more important issues they need to deal with in asia than her pathetic temper spat..

so she arrives back,  bleached hair, bleached teeth and all done for he at bargain prices..

her statement,  never going back and never eating thai food!!  demonstrating her bigoted views remain unaltered and her inability to accept her behavior is totally what got her in the slammer...

would have been nice to hear a "i was stupid, dont steal, and dont get blind drunk with your friends in bars and think you can steal." "and thank you to all who got me out and i am all so sorry to my family and to my country"


she remains a prize fool, arriving back spitting venom against the thai's personally who hosted her and her friends and looked after her until she crossed the line.. and without repenting nor even a glimpse of a thank you.. 

imho the best answer for the people of puket, is to chase down a few drug taking aussies and save face that way.. why should the thai people be to blame for her behavior?

i expect some decent retribution in puket in the near term!


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## jono1887 (22 May 2009)

Agentm said:


> she admits to the crime in thailand, pleads guilty, then heads back.
> 
> her stupidity and her crime costing the earth in diplomatic/embassy costs, and as far as i am concerned there are far more important issues they need to deal with in asia than her pathetic temper spat..
> 
> ...




So true, but the stupid and ignorant will always remain that way... they probably should have kept her in prison for a few more months :


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## nunthewiser (22 May 2009)

jono1887 said:


> So true, but the stupid and ignorant will always remain that way... they probably should have kept her in prison for a few more months :




totally agrees


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## cuttlefish (22 May 2009)

Agentm said:


> she admits to the crime in thailand, pleads guilty, then heads back.
> 
> her stupidity and her crime costing the earth in diplomatic/embassy costs, and as far as i am concerned there are far more important issues they need to deal with in asia than her pathetic temper spat..
> 
> ...




yeah well said.


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