# AGF - AMP Capital China Growth Fund



## djones (2 December 2006)

*AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

http://www.ampcapital.com.au/china/theoffer/default.asp

Interested to know your thoughts of this fund and interested to know whether you think the shares will trade at a discount in january 07.

Cheers,
 - Duncan


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## chops_a_must (2 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Would like to know what they are investing in before I'd commit any money to it.


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## shinobi346 (6 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

A class china shares. Exactly which companies I don't think it mentioned when I looked at the prospectus a couple of weeks back.


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## X888 (17 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Are these tradable on the ASX ?


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## scsl (17 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				X888 said:
			
		

> Are these tradable on the ASX ?



Yes. This fund can be considered a listed investment company (LIC). The ASX code will be AGF.

IMO, it will begin life trading above its net tangible assets (compared to the majority of LICs, which are trading below NTA). AGF will be investing in Chinese A shares, which even untill today is very hard to be able to invest in - only 2 other funds in the world allow exposure to A shares. 

Compared to H shares (which are Chinese companies listed in Hong Kong), A shares are seen as the 'real China' and where the undiscovered gems are going to be found. Undiscovered because the majority of investors are ordinary Chinese investors who lack the expertise of institutional investors. This is in contrast to H shares, which have been driven largely by institutional investors.

I didn't find out about this fund until after the close date, but will be watching it very closely. For those interested, have a look at p16 of the latest Smart Investor magazine.


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## louie (18 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				scsl said:
			
		

> For those interested, have a look at p16 of the latest Smart Investor magazine.




I have applied for these.
But I am interested in what Smart Investor magazine has to say. 
Is it possible to let us know.

Many Thanks


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## shinobi346 (18 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

I can't wait till Friday.

So only 2 and this one have access to A class huh? It's exclusiveness is something the US will be fighting against at the WTO which until things change, this fund will be well placed to take advantage of.


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## scsl (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				louie said:
			
		

> I have applied for these.
> But I am interested in what Smart Investor magazine has to say.
> Is it possible to let us know.
> 
> Many Thanks



- SI calls it a bit of a landmark - because it invests in Chinese A shares.

- Vast majority of Chinese listed companies are listed on the Shanghai and Shenzhen exchanges. The shares that trade there are A shares. Majority of funds that say that they invest in China actually invest in H shares. This is where big landmark issues have taken place of late. Demand and hence the share prices of H shares has been largely due to the big end of town. SI gives an example of the difference in behavior between A shares and H shares. A recent listing of a huge Chinese bank, ICBC, was the first stock to list simultaneously in Hong Kong (H shares) and Shanghai (A shares). Since they’re stocks of the same company, you’d expect them to trade the same way. But they don’t – H shares did vastly better on debut. [That’s why I’m thinking this is a good time to get in on A shares – before the institutional investors start to come in. And this will eventually happen!]

- Frontier stuff. A shares are governed by very strict Chinese regulation not Hong Kong’s, which is what has made H shares more appealing for investors over the years . However, China’s regulation is improving by leaps and bounds. 

- Be cautious in that China’s stockmarket doesn’t necessarily reflect China’s economy. E.g. this year’s been great, but there was a period earlier this decade when the market halved in value while China itself grew at 9 per cent in the year. [I don’t see something as drastic happening anymore, particularly as more of China’s population put a portion of their savings into the sharemarket and also become more intelligent and aware.]

- Be prepared for volatility and uncertainty. Also, one odd thing about LICs is that they can trade well above or below of what they actually own [- what I referred to as NTA]. 

- Fees will be hefty, but is expected in a specialist asset class. 1.772 per cent base/ongoing fees plus a performance fee of 20 per cent on all outperformance above the benchmark – an index called the S&P/CITIC 300 Total Return. [Honestly, I’d be willing to pay more because it’s going to be a long time before foreign retail investors can participate in A shares.]

Good luck for your application of shares! I hope you and others who applied for this don't get scaled back. I'd be surprised if demand from both retail and institutional wasn't high.


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## X888 (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

I have also applied for these.

Has anyone got any confirmation on what they have been allocated ?


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## X888 (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

New info available.

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/CompanyInfoSearchResults.jsp?searchBy=asxCode&allinfo=on&asxCode=AGF


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## shinobi346 (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Seems like they have been allocated. It popped up in commsec today. I thought they might knock me back some because I chose not to go through a broker but they didn't which is good because I'd rather them not have my money over the holidays.


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## X888 (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Hmm nothing popped up in mine.

Anyone else get their lot ?


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## X888 (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Ok i've just checked it again.

It's there 

Can't wait till Friday now.


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## scsl (19 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

X888 and shinobi, in the letter regarding the allocation of shares, was there any mention of scaling back? Or if you haven't yet received this, did both of you receive what you applied for?


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## X888 (20 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Yeah I got all that I applied for, should be getting statements in the mail this afternoon.


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## scsl (20 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				X888 said:
			
		

> Yeah I got all that I applied for, should be getting statements in the mail this afternoon.



Nice to hear mate! Seeing as you did, it probably meant that demand for this fund wasn't considerably high. It'll be very interesting to see how it goes on its debut this Friday. But, there could be some arrangements that I'm unaware of, so it may well debut at a good premium on Friday...

Browsing through the link djones gave in the first post, this stock will be available for margin lending, ranging from 50-65%. Anyways, I'll be doing more reading and research on this stock, but I've liked everything I've read so far. For those interested, there are 2 research reports available on the link, both look very detailed - I'll be going through it.


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## Caliente (20 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

A shares - Renminbi (RMB) denominated shares issued by companies registered in mainland China and listed on the Shanghai or Shenzhen stock exchanges. They are only available to domestic investors, QFII licence holders and approved foreign investors under the strategic investment scheme. (This scheme permits foreign business entities to take a minimum approved 10% stake in A share companies, *but holdings must be held for at least three years).*

Thats a bit dodgy isn't it? I What if the company is a total dog, the fund managers wont be able to do anything about it???


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## louie (22 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund  (AGF)*

AMP Capital China Growth Fund  (AGF)

Listed today & closed $1.035. 

Above its $1.00 Float Price.

There is a lot of positive reports about this stock. Even my Accountant today said to me he reckons this will really do well, once it gets its teeth into trading & investing in Chinese "A" shares,  due to it, really being untapped.


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## scsl (24 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				Caliente said:
			
		

> A shares - Renminbi (RMB) denominated shares issued by companies registered in mainland China and listed on the Shanghai or Shenzhen stock exchanges. They are only available to domestic investors, QFII licence holders and approved foreign investors under the strategic investment scheme. (This scheme permits foreign business entities to take a minimum approved 10% stake in A share companies, *but holdings must be held for at least three years).*
> 
> Thats a bit dodgy isn't it? I What if the company is a total dog, the fund managers wont be able to do anything about it???



I think you might be a little confused. A shares _can _ be bought by 'approved foreign investors' under the 'strategic investment scheme', however, AMP was granted access to A shares *not* as an 'approved foreign investor', but via the QFII licence. There is a distinct difference, seeing as QFII holders *do not * have to commit funds for a certain number of years (but of course can if they choose to). Ie, this fund can hold a minute percentage of a company's shares for a few days or it can effectively take a significant shareholding for an indefinate period - they can be seen as your common fund manager. 

IMO, if AMP were allowed to invest in China as an 'approved foreign investor', they would have been unlikely to have gone on to create a listed fund. The risks are much higher (but there is also potential for great returns).


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## shinobi346 (24 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Here is some more info on the QFII licence. There aren't too many of them around which is what makes this Aussie fund so special.

http://www.jsfund.cn/en/qfii/qfii.jsp


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## marklar (27 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

These are ticking along nicely today, $1.15 looks about par for the course

m.


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## scsl (27 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				marklar said:
			
		

> These are ticking along nicely today, $1.15 looks about par for the course
> 
> m.



Closed at $1.11 (up 7.3%). I'm gonna be an idiot and say the obvious: demand for this fund is high and it's definately starting to flow in! It hit a peak of $1.20 just before noon. I'm hitting myself for not buying when it listed on Friday.

The below is a little outdated but still worth reading.



> *AMP Capital eyes A$280 mln for new China fund*
> Tuesday November 21, 2006, 2:38 pm
> 
> SYDNEY, Nov 21 (Reuters) - AMP Capital Investors Ltd. is planning to launch a new A$280 million ($215 million) fund to invest in China-listed companies, to give Australian investors their first direct exposure to China's booming share market.
> ...


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## marklar (27 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				scsl said:
			
		

> Closed at $1.11 (up 7.3%).



OK, so some took profits towards the end of the day; I've watched stocks have this happen, it will be good to see a chart once we get enough data to actually plot one.



> I'm hitting myself for not buying when it listed on Friday.



Ah, but you can't buy everything!  I sold some IAG to pick up a small handful of these on friday with the plan of getting back into IAG at the 5.50 offer I got in the post today (provided they're still trading above 5.50 in jan).

m.


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## scsl (27 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Today's close of $1.11 represents a 14% premium to its Net Asset Value (NAV) of $0.975. Considering that many trusts and listed invesment companies (LICs) that have listed in the past have traded at or below NAV on listing, AGF is doing well. 

And as I'm still continuing my research into AGF, I'll continue to provide useful links for those interested. This one's a media presentation:
http://www.ampcapital.com.au/K2DOCS...98F21B/MR20061121ChinaPresentation.pdf?DIRECT


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## Caliente (27 December 2006)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

hi, I'm one of those interested parties right here. With the QFII issue cleared up this fund looks like a go in my books. I will see if I can squeeze some room in the portfolio for this kiddo.

thanks for the good info, and keep it coming scsl   

Cheers
-Cal


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## zombie_ninja (29 December 2006)

Hi Guys,

It has just been traded for the last few days. What do the experts think its sp should be by the end of Jan?

Regards.


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## louie (1 January 2007)

To hard to tell what the share price will be at the end of January 07.
But at $1.20, with a 20% profit after a few days trading you can’t complain.
As the job of this share is to trade/invest in China’s “A Shares”, not many companies/funds have the exposure to do this. 
Hence a lot of the insto’s will take up a small percentage to get a bit of exposure.
And with the amount of positive China related articles in the Business sections in all our National newspapers in the last 3 weeks you would assume its share price could grow considerable. 

Maybe the question should be asked where will its share price (AGF) be at the end of December 2007.


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## X888 (2 January 2007)

About to hit 40% within 5 days of trading.   

All hype at the moment, can't wait till they actually start on the China stock exchange.


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## scsl (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Seriously!! Look at this thing go! Up 10% today, and was at one stage sitting on a 21% gain. Although there's no reason for this fund to not do well, I am very surprised at the pace it's going. And no, I still haven't bought any yet.   hmmm, to buy or not to buy? Surely, this one's got to pull back a little?!


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## BSD (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Cannot believe people would pay $1.40 for $1.00 worth of cash


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## michael_selway (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				BSD said:
			
		

> Cannot believe people would pay $1.40 for $1.00 worth of cash




how do u know its $1 worth of cash?

thx

MS


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## BSD (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

It probably isn't even worth that after the listing costs have been pulled out. 

Unless their investments in listed Chinese companies went up in the week they have had the money - the NTA is closer to $1.00 than $1.40

What am I missing here?


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## marklar (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				BSD said:
			
		

> What am I missing here?



Don't know, but I'm happy with the increase from buying in at 1.04 on day one   .  Think I'm going to set a stop a little under today's close price just in case everyone decides to sober up tomorrow   and keep a close eye on things in case I need to get back in real quick... hmm... another day at work without doing much work...

m.


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## YELNATS (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				scsl said:
			
		

> The risks are much higher (but there is also potential for great returns).




I think one has to be wary when dealing with China. After all it is a communist regime, it is very bureacratic and it is subject to corruption in the public service. I have heard personal tales of woe in the past that they have renegged on their deals. And even though AMP is associated with this venture, don't forget AMP has less than a perfect record in its' offshore investements. Regards YN.


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## scsl (2 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				BSD said:
			
		

> Cannot believe people would pay $1.40 for $1.00 worth of cash



I know what you mean... it's like the uranium craze atm: people buying shares of companies that will never produce an ounce of uranium. However, if the *growth prospects are evident*, you can be sure to see demand for a stock. 

At this stage, I would not pay $1.40 - in fact, I'm not willing to pay more than about $1.20-1.25 (it closed at $1.32). AGF is worth buying as it has substantial growth prospects, but at these levels, it's priced quite excessively. Of the many LICs on the ASX only a very small percentage trade at a 25%+ premium (let alone above 10%) see http://www.asx.com.au/investor/pdf/tolhurst_noall_listed_investment_company_report_oct_2006.pdf. The Chinese sharemarket will see relatively big returns, but I would like to perhaps see proof that AGF management is on the right track in terms of growing NAV. 

A reason for the demand behind the stock since its listing on Dec 22 could be that as word amongst retail and institutional investors/brokers spreads and research is done/quoted, the fact that the A-share index (which is solely what AGF will invest in) was the best performing major share index will count for something - it returned 101.7% in 2006! (source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-2517495,00.html). Matching this is hard to fathom but it is worthwhile remembering that the A-share market is being supported by strong economic growth, continuing significant market reforms and strong underlying demand from foreign and domestic investors.

Regarding how much it's currently worth, see post #24. AGF's current NAV is $0.975. As they should be fully invested pretty soon, I wouldn't exactly call it cash. So from here on, if the value of their investments rise, so will the NAV (same as NTA btw). 

I'd be interested to hear what people would be willing to pay for this atm...


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## louie (3 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Read somewhere how AMP Capital Investors head of investment Dr. Shane Oliver is up there with the best, if not one of the best going around. And has had a considerable say & changed their less than perfect record from years ago.

Also there is a lot of write ups in the paper about China, so if you wanted a bit of International exposure especially China, well you couldn't go wrong with this once it starts investing........ And It all depends on what you pay for it, & where it will be in 12 months time. 

If it goes anything like the unlisted Fund, "Premium China Fund" which has been going for 11 to 12 months & is run by the respected Value Partners Ltd in Hong Kong & which invest in companies listed in Hong Kong, Mainland China & Taiwan stock exchanges, then I would be happy. Admittedly I was unsure when my Finacial bloke recommended them but I did my research & took a chance.

Its unit price opened at $1.00 & is now $1.53, 12 months on.

I would think in 12 months time AMP's China Fund would better this once it gets into the swing of things.
.


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## PhoenixXx (3 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Does anyone know that the increase/decrease price of AMP Limited (ASX : AMP) affect this AGF?


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## scsl (3 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				PhoenixXx said:
			
		

> Does anyone know that the increase/decrease price of AMP Limited (ASX : AMP) affect this AGF?



No, the share price performance of AMP should have no effect whatsoever on the sp of AGF.


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## shinobi346 (3 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				YELNATS said:
			
		

> I think one has to be wary when dealing with China. After all it is a communist regime, it is very bureacratic and it is subject to corruption in the public service. I have heard personal tales of woe in the past that they have renegged on their deals. And even though AMP is associated with this venture, don't forget AMP has less than a perfect record in its' offshore investements. Regards YN.




Any blatant dodginess by the Chinese government won't just affect this fund but many other Australian companies as well since we are so closely tied with China in trade, so I'm not too worried in that regard with this particular fund.

AMP.. hopefully they've put new measures in place to prevent a repeat of those things.

I haven't heard any of the 51 other QFII licence holders having any troubles since the inception of the licence 5 years ago. 

I took some profit today. Might buy in again at the <1.20 level.

scsl - I couldn't get that times article to show up.


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## BSD (3 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

I still cannot understand anyone paying $1.20+ for $1.00 worth of assets.

Most people whinge about paying a 1.5% MER on a managed fund. 

Buyers of this share are paying a 20%+ entry fee.

AMP can make a massive 20% on the Chinese market and the current buyers will still be underwater on NTA

Imagine if they drop 10% of NTA in the first quarter...


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## YELNATS (3 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				shinobi346 said:
			
		

> Any blatant dodginess by the Chinese government won't just affect this fund but many other Australian companies as well since we are so closely tied with China in trade, so I'm not too worried in that regard with this particular fund.
> 
> AMP.. hopefully they've put new measures in place to prevent a repeat of those things.
> 
> ...




I hope you are right on these scores. Am still a holder of AMP but not AGF. regards YN.


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## PhoenixXx (5 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Oh shoot...should've sold it when it was $1.40 back then...
I dunno if it could bounce back pretty soon


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## shinobi346 (5 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

It probably won't bounce like that again for a while, at least not until they start investing that money. my 2 cents.


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## on AIM trader (7 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				PhoenixXx said:
			
		

> Oh shoot...should've sold it when it was $1.40 back then...
> I dunno if it could bounce back pretty soon




I dont think it will get back in the realm of $1.40 for a while.

The sudden spike that we saw was related to BNP Parisbas (massive French investment bank) taking a sizeable interest in this stock. The half alert DT's out there saw (perhaps b/c they read ASX announements and circulars) this sign of confidence and start to drive it up quite a bit in the ensuing days until it retreated to parity value. I still think that a lot of insto investors were unsure about this one as it seems everyone has an opinion on China and the direction and shape it will take for the next '5 yr plan', but the confidence in the market and the fact that it is a relatively RARE type of Listed entity means that BNP are just seizing the initiative while its still affordable and they obviously plan on keeping it for some time, hence the relatively large holding they decided to take out. I mean when banks like that and others are taking a big chunk away the market from regular Joe investors they are doing it for a reason and they have rooms full of equity researchers and analysts in London and Paris crunching the numbers.. it could also be a  more readily accessabile and cost effective way for them to access the market, rather than try and create the similar sort of product to gain the same degree of exposure to that market.

I agree totally that the sudden movements of late are mere speculation and the upside we have witnessed should start to solidfy once the fund starts to get some capiatl growth under its belt and people can track and form their own opinions.. but Shane Oliver aint no fool!


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## BSD (7 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

BNP doesn't own any AGF - they are AMP's dealers.

The substantial notice identifies the fact that AMP Life and AMP Capital took up 30% of the float stock. 

All bought at $1 - not one cent above.

UBS was another substantial shareholder (7.72%) at the float price.


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## zombie_ninja (8 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Found this link at HC (http://www.asiawind.com/pub/hksr/mark/mark42.shtml)

What are your guys' opinions on this issue?


Regards.


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## zombie_ninja (8 January 2007)

Found this link at HC (http://www.asiawind.com/pub/hksr/mark/mark42.shtml)

What are your guys' opinions on this issue?


I am holding AGF at the moment.

Regards.


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## WhoDaresWin (8 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Watch out guys for China Life Insurance, which is AMP Capital's regional sub-advisor and the biggest institutional investor in China making its debut tomorrow on China A shares...

Cheers!


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## X888 (9 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

China Life Insurance (Group) Company, the largest shareholder, holds 19.32 billion shares, about 68.37 percent of the total, said the circular.

Nineteen strategic investors shared 600 million shares, about 2.12 percent. Another 130 institutional investors acquired 1.06 percent or 300 million shares.

China Life priced its 1.5 billion A-shares at 18.88 yuan, and the price is expected to surge to 30 yuan on its first trading day. China Life is also expected to be the third heavyweight to list after the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China and the Bank of China.

Under a new regulation of the Shanghai Stock Exchange, China Life shares will not be included in the Shanghai Composite Index and other indices until it has been listed for 10 trading days.

China Life is already listed on the Hong Kong and New York stock exchanges. It has 44.1 percent of the country's insurance market.

Over the past five years, China's insurance sector saw annual growth of 35 percent on average.


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## X888 (9 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

American depositary receipts of China Life Insurance Co. Ltd., China's largest life insurer, jumped Monday, a day before the stock's trading debut on the Shanghai Stock Exchange.

Shares of China Life Insurance added $4.59, or 9.6 percent, to $52.66 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange with heavy trading volume.


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## X888 (10 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

*China Life overtakes European insurers.

A red letter day in the insurance world as China Life started selling its shares on the Shanghai stock market. So many investors wanted to buy shares in the country's top life insurer that their price more than doubled. China life is not just an insurance firm, it also holds stakes in commercial banks and an electricity generating company.

The value of the shares means China Life is worth 98 billion euros, making it the second largest such company in the world after American International Group and ahead of the largest European insurers, ING, Allianz and Axa.*

Looking good.


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## scsl (24 January 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

I haven't bought any AGF shares yet and don't think that I will be anytime soon. While I'm confident of this stock performing well in the long term, I'm not so sure about the next 6 months. In particular, it's with regards to its Net Asset Value - which is an important factor behind the sp of LICs such as this. 

Yes, the Chinese sharemarket has done exceptionally well in 2006 (remember that we are talking of A-shares here, not Hong Kong listed shares). AGF is backed up by a local brokerage house (in CLAMC) and will no doubt look for companies that are undervalued by the market and/or have strong outlooks. But I fear that a market correction will take any positive sentiment away, meaning that even companies who's shares have not run hard will struggle. 

If prices of shares don't rise or worse, decline, this will have an adverse effect on NAV and eventually the sp. I think a lower than expected growth in NAV will dissapoint investors - a fall would wipe all the hype of this stock away. 

I could well be wrong - LICs with good growth outlooks trade at premiums to their current sp and AGF is proving to be no different. 

It's articles like below that have prompted this post...



> *'Overpriced' China trips off alarm*
> Chen Shiyin and Zhang Shidong
> January 23, 2007
> 
> ...



http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...trips-off-alarm/2007/01/22/1169330830109.html


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## X888 (9 February 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

January report should be out next week.


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## marklar (14 February 2007)

Announcement out today, the fund has done well!

Net asset value per unit is $1.10.

m.


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## PhoenixXx (14 February 2007)

Yesterday's SP fell to 1.085, Too bad for those people selling it as now the current net asset value is $1.10/unit. 
Very good news.


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## PhoenixXx (14 February 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

Ann just released today.
Result couldn't be any better.   
Net asset value is now $1.10/unit.


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## the barry (15 February 2007)

I can't help but feel that in 12 months we will all be very happy with this investment.


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## angela200172 (15 February 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				PhoenixXx said:
			
		

> Ann just released today.
> Result couldn't be any better.
> Net asset value is now $1.10/unit.




Well done AGF, only 1 Month time, 10% up of the unit, I hold 114000 at $1.12, I believe AGF will up to $2.00 in 12 months, as China share market very strong.


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## Pat (15 February 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				angela200172 said:
			
		

> Well done AGF, only 1 Month time, 10% up of the unit, I hold 114000 at $1.12, I believe AGF will up to $2.00 in 12 months, as China share market very strong.




Angela, 

Why will this go to $2 in 12 months?

Pat.


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## angela200172 (15 February 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



			
				Pat said:
			
		

> Angela,
> 
> Why will this go to $2 in 12 months?
> 
> Pat.




As you can see the china A share market, just finished correction, and start to fly to blue sky. Thank you,and good luck for holding AGF traders.


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## professor_frink (15 February 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*

howdy folks,

For all you folks involved in the Chinese market, either directly or through a fund- here's a link that was posted in another thread that may be of some interest-

http://www.stocktiming.com/Monday-DailyMarketUpdate.htm


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## BIG BWACULL (15 February 2007)

YEAR OF THE PIG


> So it is expected that the economy and the stock market will shot up to very high levels in the months from February till about July. However, investors have to be cautious towards autumn and winter as there will be substantial set back as the fire element will disappear in 2008, the year of the Earth Rat. The situation bears some similarity to the Asian currency crisis that broke out in around August of 1997. 1997 is also a Yin fire year and such illusive fire pushed the stock and property market sky high in first half of 1997 before the collapse came in August. However, in general, we do not expect the setback in second half of 2007 will be as serious as that of 1997. The reason being that there is hidden wood element in the Pig which still provide support to the Yin fire even in winter time.




Raymond Lo, popularly known as "Fung Shui Lo", is a professional feng shui and destiny consultant, author and lecturer, who helps people create harmony with their environment, for greater relationships, health, wealth and success.
Mr. Lo has appeared on numerous television shows, including : ABC’s "Good Morning America", BBC’s "Wicker’s World", Australian TV "Today Show", Discovery Channel’s "Feng Shui Makeover", CNN’s "Tech Watch" and Chinese new year interviews.

I invest and will hold out till the year of the metal rabbit at the very least (2011)


----------



## shinobi346 (15 February 2007)

Why 2$? Why not $3? $1.5? $1.15?? Care to share your research (if you did any) on where the $2 came from?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 February 2007)

shinobi346 said:
			
		

> Why 2$? Why not $3? $1.5? $1.15?? Care to share your research (if you did any) on where the $2 came from?




An older post suggested it was still just worth $1 until we see how the China market pans out this year. I note amp have bought more at higher prices than recent closes. Lets wait and see. a spinning penny may be the best advice once it settles, heads or tails?

Garpal


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## Pat (16 February 2007)

I agree Garples   

I still don't see any analysis, fundamental or technical, why AGF will move in price....up or down.

I guess it's up to the coin....


----------



## the barry (16 February 2007)

Pat said:
			
		

> I agree Garples
> 
> I still don't see any analysis, fundamental or technical, why AGF will move in price....up or down.
> 
> I guess it's up to the coin....




Isn't the fact that they have increased the nav from 96 cents to 1.10 within a month an indication that the stock price should be moving up???


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## Pat (16 February 2007)

the barry said:
			
		

> Isn't the fact that they have increased the nav from 96 cents to 1.10 within a month an indication that the stock price should be moving up???




Not sure what your refering to with the "increased nav". However I would like to know what it is... and what relationship this can have with AGF's shareprice. 

However, on a crappy T/A as theres no real history, the chart indicates nothing apart from tightening Bollinger bands a sideways trend.


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## the barry (16 February 2007)

Pat said:
			
		

> Not sure what your refering to with the "increased nav". However I would like to know what it is... and what relationship this can have with AGF's shareprice.
> 
> However, on a crappy T/A as theres no real history, the chart indicates nothing aprt from tightening Bollinger bands a sideways trend.




The initial net asset value per unit was initially 96 cents when the fund started. That is referring to the the total value of the assets divided by the total number of units in the fund. In the past month the nav per unit has risen to 1.10, meaning that the value of the assets has increased by 14 cents, or approximatly 15 percent. If they continued this trend for the year shareholders would all be very happy. That is why we have seen the turn around in the share price.


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## angela200172 (16 February 2007)

the barry said:
			
		

> The initial net asset value per unit was initially 96 cents when the fund started. That is referring to the the total value of the assets divided by the total number of units in the fund. In the past month the nav per unit has risen to 1.10, meaning that the value of the assets has increased by 14 cents, or approximatly 15 percent. If they continued this trend for the year shareholders would all be very happy. That is why we have seen the turn around in the share price.




yes, I agree Barry

AGF sp won't drop back to $1.10, now the sp at $1.195, up trend just start. china A market up 87p to 2993. yestoday, I think the A market will up to 3000 for chinese new year on next Monday, and after that 2 big meeting for china GOV on March, so the will up to the  2 big meeting over on march, AGF unit will increas more 15% on Feb.


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## Pat (16 February 2007)

the barry said:
			
		

> The initial net asset value per unit was initially 96 cents when the fund started. That is referring to the the total value of the assets divided by the total number of units in the fund. In the past month the nav per unit has risen to 1.10, meaning that the value of the assets has increased by 14 cents, or approximatly 15 percent. If they continued this trend for the year shareholders would all be very happy. That is why we have seen the turn around in the share price.




Net asset value... Should of known, not familiar with the term "nav".... now i am familiar.

Yes if that trend continued then yes, It would be great, however what indication is there of the trend continuing?

To say a stock will go to any price in 12 months if a trend continues is quite "loose" IMO.


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## the barry (16 February 2007)

Pat said:
			
		

> Net asset value... Should of known, not familiar with the term "nav".... now i am familiar.
> 
> Yes if that trend continued then yes, It would be great, however what indication is there of the trend continuing?
> 
> To say a stock will go to any price in 12 months if a trend continues is quite "loose" IMO.




I never put a price on the stock, present, or in 12 months. All i stated was that if the present trend in growth continued, which is one month so obviously it is hardly anything to go by,  that in 12 months the shareholders would be very happy.


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## Garpal Gumnut (17 February 2007)

the barry said:
			
		

> Isn't the fact that they have increased the nav from 96 cents to 1.10 within a month an indication that the stock price should be moving up???




Dear the barry,

I've got a lawn mower, had it for 12 years. Its a good mower, but I've seen one at Harveys that is new and looks like an updated version of mine. 

I've also got 3 mates who know about lawnmowers.

1. a doctor ... he says its worth $100
2. a diesel mechanic ....he says its worth $150
3. a soldier, warrant officer, .... he says its worth $300

I've got to decide its NAV

Its NAV is $375 I've decided.

Its the same with stocks, someone has to value it, but you need to work out its value to you.

cheers 

Garpal


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## the barry (17 February 2007)

Garpal Gumnut said:
			
		

> Dear the barry,
> 
> I've got a lawn mower, had it for 12 years. Its a good mower, but I've seen one at Harveys that is new and looks like an updated version of mine.
> 
> ...




I dont quite understand what you are trying to get at with this. The fund is made up of a group of assets, which in this case are shares. The value of these shares are determined by the market. I am also unaware of any other types of funds similiar to agf.


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## Garpal Gumnut (17 February 2007)

the barry said:
			
		

> I dont quite understand what you are trying to get at with this. The fund is made up of a group of assets, which in this case are shares. The value of these shares are determined by the market. I am also unaware of any other types of funds similiar to agf.




Dear the barry, 

Excuse me if I sound teacherish but please read your reply from the second sentence "slowly". NAV can be plastic/elastic. It is in the eye of the be"holder". I know of no similar mower to my lawnmower. I have had 3 different valuations. If it rains it is worth more. The market is you!!. However the market sometimes is not privy to essential information. Think outside the square and don't believe anything you are told, you'll keep your base capital safe that way. You may wake up tomorrow am to find this stocks NAV has halved, ....or ....doubled.

Garpal


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## stoxclimber (18 February 2007)

I believe what garpal is trying to say in a very roundabout way is that the AGF share price incorporated some expectations of a rising NAV so when the NAV actually rose from 96c to 1.10 it was as expected so therefore no reason for AGF to rise/fall.


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## WhoDaresWin (18 February 2007)

Just can't see any comparison between Garpal's lawnmower and share price... Yes, share price is decided by the market as a consensus of opinions, which are majorly based on the company's fundamentals and of course other factors as well, but definitely not some guessing works or judgement thats based on others' post.


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## moses (18 February 2007)

Pat said:
			
		

> I agree Garples
> 
> I still don't see any analysis, fundamental or technical, why AGF will move in price....up or down.




Perhaps the Neilson SMA chart will be a better than nothing.

The Neilson SMA shows a steady selling pressure from "smart money", traders with bigger parcels than average. This is a bearish signal. It means that the more serious orders are from sellers waiting to cash in on peaks rather than buyers hoping to pick up any dips.

For more info see Neilson Smart Money Analyser thread.


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## Pat (19 February 2007)

I still don't see any reason why this stock will go to $2 as stated by Angela,
nor is there any analysis as to why/if this current trend will continue...
What trend anyway? Perhaps someone could post a chart and show me this trend which predicts a $2 share price in 12 months, and the fundamentals that indicate why the trend will continue?


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## CanOz (19 February 2007)

Pat said:
			
		

> I still don't see any reason why this stock will go to $2 as stated by Angela,
> nor is there any analysis as to why/if this current trend will continue...
> What trend anyway? Perhaps someone could post a chart and show me this trend which predicts a $2 share price in 12 months, and the fundamentals that indicate why the trend will continue?




I would challenge any T/A to find a reason that this fund will go to $2. Its too young. There was, what appears to have been, a selling climax and that could allow it to move higher. That was probably back when the Shanghai A retraced a bit.

China stocks are ripe for a pullback.


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## Sean K (19 February 2007)

I have to agree that there doesn't seem to be any analysis on this yet, except from Moses's Smart Money indicator, which I would like to see validated somewhere.

Let's stick to some solid analysis folks. Thanks to those for keeping the forum real...


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## scsl (27 February 2007)

AGF is doing well, considering the mini-crash that has happened in the Chinese A-shares market.


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## Garpal Gumnut (28 February 2007)

scsl said:
			
		

> AGF is doing well, considering the mini-crash that has happened in the Chinese A-shares market.





Considering its valuation is a matter of opinion rather than even conjecture, its done well to finish at 1.12 today.

Looking at its fundamentals and chart though it resembles the emperor with no clothes, whose going to let it know that its value is so intangible.

5 days post listing it hit 1.45. Its been in a trading range, hitting more lows than highs since.

Its a good concept, and I'll certainly look at it when it drops below .70

Garpal


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## marklar (9 March 2007)

marklar said:
			
		

> Announcement out today, the fund has done well!
> 
> Net asset value per unit is $1.10.
> 
> m.



Yeah, yeah, bad netiquette to reply to your own post... anyway...

Announcement out that they're still at $1.10 for the end of Feb.

m.


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## BSD (9 March 2007)

Garpal Gumnut said:
			
		

> Looking at its fundamentals and chart though it resembles the emperor with no clothes, whose going to let it know that its value is so intangible.
> 
> Its a good concept, and I'll certainly look at it when it drops below .70
> 
> Garpal




Why?

Would you pay $0.70 if the NTA was $0.40?

Why would you bother charting something that has a calculatable NAV? - hardly intangible

The most recent NTA (as at 28 Feb2007) is $1.10 - how does a chart of AGF have any effect on this?


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## BSD (9 March 2007)

BSD said:
			
		

> The most recent NTA (as at 28 Feb2007) is $1.10 - how does a chart of AGF have any effect on this?




Another question - does anyone know why the NAV is delayed by 10 days?


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## Pat (29 March 2007)

Pat said:


> Yes if that trend continued then yes, It would be great, however what indication is there of the trend continuing?
> 
> To say a stock will go to any price in 12 months if a trend continues is quite "loose" IMO.




With the share price @ $1.14, going buy the current trend/price movement. This stock should be??? $1.14 by next year!
Hate to be a stick in the mud, but the only upside for AGF is purely fundamental.


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## Glenhaven (30 March 2007)

Pat said:


> With the share price @ $1.14, going buy the current trend/price movement. This stock should be??? $1.14 by next year!
> Hate to be a stick in the mud, but the only upside for AGF is purely fundamental.




Agreed, but if you think that the fundamentals are good in China and now that market price is close to the NTA it is a reasonably buy. The major drawback is the high fees chaged by AMP.


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## Garpal Gumnut (30 March 2007)

AGF may surprise its detractors. Its in an ascending triangle technically. However it lacks the volume confirmation to suggest a breakout. I still feel buying in at well below issue price would be a better tactic.


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## Glenhaven (30 March 2007)

Bit the bullet and bought a small parcel for my daughter to-day to put in the bottom drawer. Hope I can say good things about this decision when she is 21.


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## marklar (3 April 2007)

Too lazy to scribble on the chart, but I like the way it's looking; hopeful of pushing above resistance at $1.16 in the next few days...

m.


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## BIG BWACULL (9 May 2007)

April 9 2007 net asset value at $1.35  Announcement out this morning  Thats a Good thing aint it, What exactly does this mean CHEERS Anyone?


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## BIG BWACULL (9 May 2007)

BIG BWACULL said:


> April 9 2007 net asset value at $1.35  Announcement out this morning  Thats a Good thing aint it, What exactly does this mean CHEERS Anyone?



Looks like its a good thing 500, 000 shares through now at 1.28 Beijing Olympics here we come. AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI


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## PhoenixXx (9 May 2007)

PhoenixXx said:


> Yesterday's SP fell to 1.085, Too bad for those people selling it as now the current net asset value is $1.10/unit.
> Very good news.




Just 3 months after they announced the latest NAV of $1.10/unit in Feb, now current NAV is at $1.35. 
About 22.7% increase in such short period.


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## megla (9 May 2007)

I dont get this. If the NTA is 1.35, then a sp below that would be a bargain. why is it still below what the share is actually worth?


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## YELNATS (9 May 2007)

megla said:


> I dont get this. If the NTA is 1.35, then a sp below that would be a bargain. why is it still below what the share is actually worth?




Maybe because the market expectation, on balance in the short to medium term, is for a fall rather than a rise in the NAV in China?


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## shinobi346 (9 May 2007)

1/ Not everyone reads announcements or ASF. 

2/ It has not been independently verified yet. Not that I'm saying it's wrong but some people might be waiting for it to be.


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## stoxclimber (9 May 2007)

3/ The performance of closed end funds is one of the persistant market irrationalities which no good explanation has been found for. 

Sorry boys, but you should have known what you were getting in for when you signed up! You'll have to wait until maturity.


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## BrownHornet (13 May 2007)

Hi, I have a small holding of AGF. I was wondering if someone could recommend a site where I could track S&P/CITIC 300 china a share indice daily or weekly.

Also interested in looking at its value over last few years. Just something that shows a chart or table would be great. Had a search around without much luck.

Help appreciated.


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## purple (21 May 2007)

i registered for and got AGF, and watched it trade sideways for many long months, unable to break past the 1.20 mark for 4 months.

I sold out in early May, and then guess what, it magically rises like a phoenix out of its ashes... 

there's a good future ahead for China A shares, but I lost patience. I flew into Hongkong with me wife for a short holiday, opened a bank account  there, dumped in many dollars and now I'm trading the China H shares myself.

now and again I check on AGF to see how it goes...and keep biting my tongue in frustration as it goes up!

oh well...there she goes, the stockmarket. (bloody unpredictable creature)


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## BIG BWACULL (8 June 2007)

Announcement out now the net asset value is $1.56 asset value goes up share price goes down  CMON (said in leyton hewitt style)


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## PhoenixXx (8 June 2007)

NAV rises above 50% of its initial price offered.
Despite the slumping market today, AGF runs smoothly


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## megla (8 June 2007)

BIG BWACULL said:


> Announcement out now the net asset value is $1.56 asset value goes up share price goes down  CMON (said in leyton hewitt style)




This in my estimation is total crap! If the (unaudited) value of a mining share was @ 1.56, the price would be within a few points of that! Yet, here we have a large Australian company (AMP) managing a fund that is trading around 20% less than its worth.


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## stoxclimber (8 June 2007)

Guys, if you had done any research before buying in you would have found that closed end funds almost always trade at a discount to value and that no-one can explain why...hearing you complain now is just ...


DYOR is not just a disclaimer!! Its actually a suggestion!


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## megla (8 June 2007)

stoxclimber said:


> if you had done any research before buying in!




This is my research - : I complain, you provide the answer lol...

No offence intended, and advice taken, however, were does one start and stop with research. ASF is to me, the best place to find and learn..


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## BIG BWACULL (8 June 2007)

megla said:


> This in my estimation is total crap! If the (unaudited) value of a mining share was @ 1.56, the price would be within a few points of that! Yet, here we have a large Australian company (AMP) managing a fund that is trading around 20% less than its worth.



well at the rate the net asset value could be worth $2 or more by chrissie so it could mean $1.70, $1.80 a share, as long as china powers on and AMP makes some $$$$ march net asset value = $1.15, april nav = $1.35 may nav = $1.56 june nav = ????


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## BIG BWACULL (8 August 2007)

Net asset value now apparently worth $1.74 as per announcement, Currently trading at $1.37. Good luck to all longterm holders


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## BIG BWACULL (3 September 2007)

Well AGF has broken its all time high of 1.45 (this has been resistance me thinks) Today now sitting at new high of 1.495 Hope it cracks the 1.50  Volume of 467,504


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## PhoenixXx (11 September 2007)

Another ann came out. NAV is at $2.18.
Broke the 2 vital resistance point on $1.45-ish as pointed by Big Bwacull


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## BIG BWACULL (11 September 2007)

PhoenixXx said:


> Another ann came out. NAV is at $2.18.
> Broke the 2 vital resistance point on $1.45-ish as pointed by Big Bwacull



Yes nice push today on that announcement. 1,634,527 shares traded to finish today at $1.645
Looks like their makin dollars in China May get a good dividend outta this NOT, Cause as they said in the IPO it has to be reinvested so holders get allocated more shares in the fund


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## BIG BWACULL (24 September 2007)

Growth fund still growing 
Up 8.5c or 5.215% Today and hit a new high of $1.72 and closed at$1.715 with nice volume of 722,812 shares
Thats all over and out


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## BIG BWACULL (27 September 2007)

Any ideas on  who what where when why 4,377,748 shares went through at 9:17am for $1.79 :dunno:
Big boys buying up perhaps


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## Logique (27 September 2007)

Big Bwacull,
there is a favourable article in the SMH today about the CBA/First State and China funds management industry and it's future potential, and lamenting the limited exposure to it by Australian institutions. Along the lines of "missing the boat".

However the transaction you mention was before market open, so don't know. Your buy-up theory is a possibility.


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## shinobi346 (17 October 2007)

It's been trading at around the $1.90 mark so its narrowing the gap on the NAV. 

I;m waiting for the announcement on a distribution. If memory serves right theres one at/around the end of the year. Has to be reinvested but thats ok.


----------



## Boggo (24 October 2007)

It is looking good from an Elliott Wave perspective.


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## DionM (20 December 2007)

Distribution announced - estimated 14c / share.

Nice little return.  Coupled with the SP growth it has been a nice little investment for me.  Just wish I had had more balls to invest more when it floated - ah well, can't get too greedy!

Nav is $1.96 I think, so quite a gap between that and current SP.


----------



## Nathan_b (20 December 2007)

if i was to purchase 5000 shares today would i still be able to get the dividend?? i was looking at these for a long time and feel now is good time. i dont want to buy today the go ex div tomorrow and then price falls and get no div and pay the premium.


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## Logique (20 December 2007)

Check the company's recent ASX announcement,

but my understanding is that it trades ex from tomorrow morning 21 Dec. So in other words it can be bought during today cum dividend, that is including dividend entitlement.  I make the dividend 0.14/1.54 = 9%.  DRP or part cash on request.


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## Nathan_b (20 December 2007)

what bout if it settles next week would i still get a div? because yesterday i brought centro and on the recipt it says they settle on monday.


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## Logique (20 December 2007)

The payment settlement date on the Buy won't affect your entitlement at all, so long as you buy when the stock is cum dividend status.


----------



## Nathan_b (20 December 2007)

ok sweet, im going to put an order in now, hope i can get some at decent prices today. thanks for your help on this.


----------



## djones (20 December 2007)

*Re: AMP Capital China Growth Fund*



djones said:


> http://www.ampcapital.com.au/china/theoffer/default.asp
> 
> Interested to know your thoughts of this fund and interested to know whether you think the shares will trade at a discount in january 07.
> 
> ...




Should of listened to my own post a year ago and bought into this.. ahh well its been a good year up to now!!


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## shinobi346 (20 December 2007)

Not bad. For those who took advantage of the IPO, they would be getting a return of fourteen per cent.


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## PhoenixXx (10 January 2008)

Fantastic announcement to start the year with.

"The responsible entity of the AMP Capital China Growth Fund (the Fund), AMP Capital Investors Limited (AFSL 232497), advises that the unaudited NAV of the Fund per Unit as of 31 December 2007 was $2.01 ex the
estimated annual distribution."

NAV per Unit (cum distribution) $2.14
NAV per Unit (ex distribution) $2.01


----------



## PhoenixXx (13 February 2008)

Subject: January 2008 Net Asset Value (NAV)

The responsible entity of the AMP Capital China Growth Fund (the Fund), AMP Capital Investors Limited (AFSL 232497), advises that the unaudited NAV of the Fund per Unit as of 31 January 2008 was $1.80 ex the estimated annual distribution.

31 January 2008
NAV per Unit (ex distribution) $1.80

Change in NAV : Year to 31 January 2008 : 75.5%
Change in NAV : Since Inception (22 December 2006): 101.0%


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## PhoenixXx (11 March 2008)

> The responsible entity of the AMP Capital China Growth Fund (the Fund), AMP Capital Investors Limited (AFSL 232497), advises that the unaudited NAV of  the Fund per Unit as of 29 February 2008 was $1.75 ex the annual distribution.
> NAV per Unit (ex distribution) : $1.75




This is really frustrating, with NAV around $1.75 and SP barely survive above $1.00. And since the start of the year, i'm the only person posting on this thread, i assume that no one else is interested in AGF


----------



## j4mesa (11 March 2008)

hmm....
just to accompany you in this thread

if you are confident with the long term of this share , buy when everyone sells.
at times like that, people acts irrationally. phoenixxx


----------



## DionM (11 March 2008)

Yeah I hold AGF.  Yes it is frustrating to see the SP dipping like it has, for no real reason but market irrationality.  I am tempted to pick up some more, to be honest, but I am being patient ...

I have held since float.


----------



## shinobi346 (11 March 2008)

I'm still holding too. We should be seeing the fruit from holding these shares in the form of bonus shares or a payout depending on what you chose. 

I'm holding but I'm not looking at buying more until closer to the end of the year.


----------



## oldblue (12 March 2008)

A bonus issue would just further depress the price as it adds more shares without increasing the assets. So I don't see any point in that and don't see it happening.
I don't hold AGF. Fascinated by China like everyone else but can't  see where AMP get a competitive advantage to invest in one of the most difficult markets in the world.


----------



## PhoenixXx (14 March 2008)

Yes, i'm still holding, from float too. DRP of 14ct seems not too bad for long term investment provided that they can maintain/increase the dividend. China's inflation of 8.x% on Feb and possibly even more bizzare in coming months is putting AGF under pressure


----------



## shinobi346 (18 March 2008)

The date that the distribution is paid out draws near. 

The DRP is closer to 10% than 14, Pheonix, when you factor in the higher price we're paying for the shares. I wish I went for the $ now. Getting 1 freeby for every twenty is good but it would be even better if it was calculated at todays prices. 

I'm not too concerned about a drop in asset value as it is presently double the share price. as such, I think the dividend will have minimal impact on the sp other than whats already happened with the share passing the ex-dividend date. 

I'm holding for the long term but I will reassess the situation after the Olympics.


----------



## Dezza (18 March 2008)

On a little side note, there's a new one coming out from CommSec, Capital Series Access China if any of you are still looking to diversify in China. Tracked against the HSCEI with BHP shares (for now) delivered on maturity after 5 years. Capital Guaranteed as well with 100% gearing available.

If it can provide same returns as AMP's, might do well. 

However, past performance is not an indication of future performance, please do your own research and consult an Adviser / Accountant before proceeding.


----------



## PhoenixXx (27 March 2008)

shinobi346 said:


> I wish I went for the $ now.



Well...yeah...I was about to accept the cash instead of shares. Normally companies would send letters to shareholders regarding this matter. It was during December when they announced about the DRP and i didn't really pay attention to it as i was on holiday. When i made up my mind to accept the cash, deadline was too close for me to do it. So i left it as it is.


----------



## PhoenixXx (28 March 2008)

Dezza said:


> On a little side note, there's a new one coming out from CommSec, Capital Series Access China...



Once bitten twice shy. AGF could soar up to double its float price and lately even slumped below its float price. I would keep my eyes on Capital Series Access China, but definitely not going to invest in its float.


----------



## dc_b4 (13 October 2009)

Any one still around this stock?

figuring what would happen to it if chinese sharemarket rebounds


----------



## style69 (12 October 2011)

i think nav is around 93c and its now trading at 66-67c

any thoughts anyone

dividend coming up in december too??


----------



## robusta (12 October 2011)

style69 said:


> i think nav is around 93c and its now trading at 66-67c
> 
> any thoughts anyone
> 
> dividend coming up in december too??




Had a look at AGF a bit over a year ago. I seem to remember the fees started to stack up by the time they paid for ; The concession to invest in China, management in China, some strange offshore entity in Mauritious or Maldives, then AMP themselves took a little cut.

Not sure of your view on China, IMO growth in the long term will continue but no economy is immune to recessions.


----------



## style69 (12 October 2011)

My views are that china will continue to have single digit growth, and their class a roe to be double digit. The yield at current trading price is fantastic in my opinion. I got a feeling they will suprise on the upside in their next annual report. Initially amp raped it but good figures for2010 could continue for 2011 results


----------



## robusta (21 October 2011)

style69 said:


> My views are that china will continue to have single digit growth, and their class a roe to be double digit. The yield at current trading price is fantastic in my opinion. I got a feeling they will suprise on the upside in their next annual report. Initially amp raped it but good figures for2010 could continue for 2011 results




Have you considered IZZ - iShares FTSE China ETF, down 31.9% over the last year. Growth in the economy does not allways mean growth on the sharemarket.


----------



## So_Cynical (6 September 2012)

Anyone watching this stock/fund? 

Some massive volume today with over 11 million shares changing hands, roughly 3.3% of the issued shares...according to my chart the largest volume day by far in the last 2 years.

AGF and IZZ will be a bargain at some point. :dunno: its a hell of a down trend.
~


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## robusta (21 March 2013)

So_Cynical said:


> Anyone watching this stock/fund?
> 
> Some massive volume today with over 11 million shares changing hands, roughly 3.3% of the issued shares...according to my chart the largest volume day by far in the last 2 years.
> 
> ...




Hunter Hall have been watching, they reported becoming a substantial holder today. 

Had a look at AGF a while ago myself, but the complicated set up and the majority being invested in financials with questionable reporting standards was not enough to entice me even with the discount to NTA. 

Maybe however the stock market in China will finally play catch up with the growth in GDP. Surely there would have to be some relationship eventually, or would there???


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## So_Cynical (21 March 2013)

So_Cynical said:


> Anyone watching this stock/fund?
> 
> Some massive volume today with over 11 million shares changing hands, roughly 3.3% of the issued shares...according to my chart the largest volume day by far in the last 2 years.
> 
> ...




Yet another bottom picked, didn't buy it though, 55c when i posted back on the 6th-September-2012....to be fair i didn't call bottom, but i was very interested.


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## Ann (1 January 2015)

G'day all, this is a stock I have held from inception and still hold. I feel China is the new massive kid on the block.

This fund has the added benefit of offering an optional DRP which then gives it the magic of compounding value.

A little more insight... https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...t=9746&page=25&p=855131&viewfull=1#post855131


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## Ann (22 February 2015)

Another chart for AGF. This time a daily chart using the simple EOD line.  It is currently forming into a ascending triangle which is a continuation pattern, meaning it should continue upward the way it has been going.


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## Smithy1967 (26 April 2015)

As a holder, i don't understand why AMP permits this vehicle to trade at a discount. Surely they must have a duty to shareholders to realise that the inherent value of the underlying shares is and always has been greater than the value people are willing to pay. If i could i would buy more, but seriously, isn't it  something that AMP should address? Restructure to an ETF and bring in market makers.....that'll do it.


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## notting (9 July 2015)

Got some at 1.09 to keep myself amused.
It was just below the 61.8% retracement from start of year to top.
Why not join in the fun!
'The People' appear to be doing the buying so far today with less help from market dictators who only helped briefly at the open and just after.


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## notting (10 July 2015)

Yes it's a hard decision, but after many hours of pondering.  I think it probably would be prudent to take profits, on an index fund, that has risen 20% in two days.   :microwave.

On a more serious note.  They should reinstall the halted stocks,   like now.



Remembering that half the stocks aren't trading which on a value added basis for half the index traded would make it 40%.


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## notting (10 July 2015)

This fund has 15% of it's value suspended, I should add. A good place to have been for a very short while.


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## sinner (15 July 2015)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-10/amp-faces-shareholder-revolt-over-china-fund/6610186



> As if the carnage in Chinese equities was not bad enough, AMP Capital is facing a shareholder revolt over its China Growth Fund.
> 
> Investors blame poor governance, and say the fund's board and its largest shareholder, AMP Life, have ignored its pleas for change.
> 
> ...




Why does this trade at such a heavy discount to NAV?


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## notting (15 July 2015)

sinner said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-10/amp-faces-shareholder-revolt-over-china-fund/6610186
> Why does this trade at such a heavy discount to NAV?




It's all about the philosophy of the fund.
The holders call for the fund to be liquidated when the fund was 30% behind the composite were spot on.  The gap had becomes so stretched that it was easy to liquidate and wait for a pull back when it was so obviously a bubble. It's another bum AMP product with lazy stupid management.

AMP would argue that it is 'a long term A class asset fund' and that gaps will level out over time.  
I guess Ausi investors were not believing in the bubble or the Chinese market and giving themselves 30% risk adjustment.  Trouble is that it's always going to lag as it should.  So it can be cashed out at any time and the 20 to 30% or so taken at any time.
What are you gonna do, return the money to share holders and start again at market and float it at a 30% discount to get investors, leaving AMP with the risk?
It is what it is - a traders fund.

May as well just leave it trading so ausi punters have something to play with on China.


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