# Formal trading education - opinions please



## stink (19 May 2006)

HI All,

Just new to the forum and looking for some opinions on formal trading education.

Now doing my home work i can only find one company in the whole of australia that has their training endorsed by the various government bodies, The Sharemarket College.

Now these guys want 10k basically for a 12 month training package and a lifetime of support, software upgardes etc etc

At first i though **** me thats alot so i went home and had a think about it. I am in the IT industry and in this industry we pay thousands of dollars for courses that are only a couple of weeks long, so for a skill and education that you will have for the rest of your life i am thinking its not a bad option?

Now i know that alot of you will say, dont do it keep your money and learn yourself from books etc and i could use that money for trading capitol. But as this is a registered course i can claim %100 of the training on tax as well.

Anyway i just want to share my current thoughts on the matter as i havent made any decisions yet, oh and on the book thing i have asked around and researched that and the problem is "what boook is the right one?" they are mostly all opinions or strategies that have worked for people in a totally different situation to the reader. Good for ideas and further education i agree but hardly a mentor?

Cheers all
Stink


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## professor_frink (19 May 2006)

*Re: OPinions PLease*

what books you buy will probably be determined by what you are trying to achieve- do you want to invest or trade? 

In regards to the course I can't comment because I've not done it.


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## dennisll (19 May 2006)

*Re: OPinions PLease*

Hi Stink,

_Don't do it keep your money and learn yourself from books etc and i could use that money for trading capital._

You guessed it, that's exactly what I would say to you.  Even with 100% deductability, at best you would only get about half your money back.  Five grand is a lot of money to spend on a course you are taking as a beginner.

I would think a better option would be to flip through some books, either at your local library or at a bookstore where they let you sit down and have a read before buying, and find something that will interest you and start from there.  If you like the book, buy it, then have a "play" with the strategies discussed.  Once you get started, you will be amazed at how quickly you pick this all up and you will find yourself gravitating towards certain styles or methods.  I know it looks daunting now with the huge amount of information available, but as you will probably hear from most people here, when you go through the normal growing phase you will naturally find your own footing.

My main concern is that you will go out and spend a huge amount of money on something that you don't even know will fit your personal style.  Why not spend a small fraction of that amount on books to start with, then look to get into a course later on that you know will fit your style?  I have heard too many stories of beginners who have rushed out to buy a training/software package they thought would be the key to success, only to find out that for one reason or another it did not fit into their personal plans and now it is sitting in a shelf somewhere gathering dust.

As you will hear from most people here, there is no better teacher than the sharemarket itself.  Learn from experience.  You have 10k, which is a good amount to start with.  Make small purchases to start and see how you go.  Find out for yourself what works and what doesn't.  No amount of training will teach you what you will learn when you put your own money on the line.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Dennis


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## stink (19 May 2006)

THanks for the replies,

Yeah great advice i know where you are coming from. My problem is i have read a couple of different books now and i read various magazines etc and they all conflict with each other so it really confuses me.

I feel that all that does is gives me a whole lot of doubt and the i'm to scared to get into the market?

I spoke with a couple of guys who are thinking about this course and they were saying "if it was around when i wanted to get into the market i would have done it then". I asked why and they both said " I lost to much when i first started because i had no strategies etc to trading. In other words it took a couple of years to learn the pitfalls that the college teaches you how to avoid.

Its a hard one, i can see the positives for the college being-
trained and mentored by active traders
always a professional available to run your trades by
A well rounded course that has advanced trading elements as well

negatives
I have to spend 5k on training after tax saving etc
could use that for trading

My other main thought about going with the college is i have tried learning "solo" previously and got overloaded and just said this is to hard i dont know what these wankers are talking about. I like the idea of learning from a structured course with people that i can talk to face to face etc

Anyway i will probably not do anything ? thats easiest lol

Cheers Stink


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## professor_frink (19 May 2006)

which books have you read? what are you reading that is conflicting and confusing for you?


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## emma (19 May 2006)

Join the Australian Technical Analysts Association (www.ataa.com.au), they have a Diploma In Technical Analysis,  run in association with the Financial Services Institute of Australasia.  They also have monthly meetings with great speakers - the opportunities for education don't have to cost a fortune.


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## dennisll (19 May 2006)

About books with advice that conflict with each other:
That is the state of play and really all it shows is that there are several ways to be successful.  The objective is to make money and as long as the strategy you choose will get you there, it doesn't really matter that it conflicts with someone else's successful strategy.  The more important thing is to choose a strategy that you are comfortable with, and that you believe will work.  Read your books and choose the one that you think is the best for you then follow it.  Don't worry about the other books that conflict with the one you have chosen for now.

About being scared to get into the market:
It is natural to be scared about something new, especially when there is a prospect of losing money.  However, getting over the fear is something you must learn to do.  What's the difference between making 10 trades that lose you 500 bucks each and going to a course that costs you 5000 bucks, in terms of getting over your fear?  Even though it would cost you the same amount of money, I'd say that after the 10 trades you will probably be in a better position of learning to manage your risk and, as a result, your fear of the market as well.

However, from what you have said it seems that you have pretty much made up your mind that you do need to go to a course to get over the hump, so to speak, and get you started.  If that's the case then all I can say is go for it!  If spending 10k on a course is what will propel you into action then by all means do it.  Doing nothing because of uncertainty is the worst option.

Regards,

Dennis


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## stink (19 May 2006)

Hi Again,

Thanks Dennis, sensible words mate.

Yeah look they have options to cut the cost in half and you still get the course itself and there software. However you have to pay for any upgrades etc to the software and you dont get the 24hr support etc. But i am thinking maybe this is the better option for me halfing the cost, and i could use teh other half as some trading capitol?

I know you all have probably discussed this sort of thing on many occasions and i really appreciate your feedback.

Thanks Again
Stink


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## ice (19 May 2006)

Stink, 

A lot of it depends on your attitude to structured tuition.
I have taken what is probably the usual course and read books, experimented with charts and various indicators etc, then made trades, some good, some bad. That's what I am comfortable with. As such, I have always thought the big $ courses were at best unnecessary and at worst a con.
However a friend who has decided to get actively involved in the market has signed up for one of these mega courses. For him it is the logical action because he has built a very successful business career on his willingness to pay big money to draw on other people's expertise. Therefore he is (a) comfortable that he will get a return on investment and (b) happy that this will bring him up to speed in the shortest amount of time, and (c) confident that he will have the discipline to implement what he is taught.

It's a different way of looking at things and while it's still not appealing to me I can see the merit in it for some people.
The question you perhaps need to ask yourself is whether you are that type of person. If you are then probably go for it.


ice

PS Although I have read a lot of books on trading there are only two that I needed to have read.
Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Le Fevre
Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb
(All the others are just about trading)


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## stink (19 May 2006)

ICE,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I am your mate!!! lol

that is exactly the way i have justified in my head, right or wrong thats how i think.

If i dont do it i am the type of person thats a) will just not look into the Stock market at all or b) never have the confidence in what i read etc to actually put it into practice.

However if i am taught by certified professionals i am more comfortable with putting my learnings into practice, i mean if its successful and i see myself makeing a modest profit then its all worth it in my book. If i do the course and i lose every trade and never make money, that would gut me totally.

Cheers Stink


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## tech/a (19 May 2006)

Think youll find for your 10K that youll know everything about the way the stock market works *but very little about how to trade profitably*.

Thats what your after isnt it?



> and never make money, that would gut me totally.




Highly likely.
I had the highest score in the State for technical analysis in 96 with the Securities Institute and promply lost $20k in the next 3 mths.

Few very few teach how to trade PROFITABLY.

Radge Does and Radge Trades Profitably.
http://www.reefcap.com/

He's fully licienced,courses 100% tax deductable,Written a couple of Books,Worked in the industry for many years including CBOT.
Is Aussi and was/is the greatest influence on my own trading.

That $20K loss is well and truely 10 X that in profit thanks to Nicks enlightenment.---Investment was a lot less than 10K.


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## dennisll (19 May 2006)

Looks like you've already answered your own question, Stink.  

Good luck and happy trading.

Dennis


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## Porper (21 May 2006)

emma said:
			
		

> Join the Australian Technical Analysts Association (www.ataa.com.au), they have a Diploma In Technical Analysis,  run in association with the Financial Services Institute of Australasia.  They also have monthly meetings with great speakers - the opportunities for education don't have to cost a fortune.




Is anybody a member of ATAA ?

I would be interested in any feedback as I am looking at doing some type of T.A course.

I am a big fan of Nick Radge but his online course is $550 I think (by memory) which is a lot for a cd.Anybody had a go at his course ?


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## Nick Radge (21 May 2006)

Just to clarify, the CD comes with 3-months tutoring via email. The course was written in 1998 and still sells well today. More importantly what is in the course still works, bull or bear!


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## tech/a (21 May 2006)

Porper said:
			
		

> Is anybody a member of ATAA ?
> 
> I would be interested in any feedback as I am looking at doing some type of T.A course.
> 
> I am a big fan of Nick Radge but his online course is $550 I think (by memory) which is a lot for a cd.Anybody had a go at his course ?




Was a member for 4 yrs.
Good speakers generally *BUT* and its a *BIG BUT*.

It wont teach you *HOW* to turn a profit.
Invest $550 with Nick and youll learn HOW to make it back in a few weeks.
Or if you have a good capital base a day.

You can analyse till your chart looks like a test pattern---but it wont make you profitable!


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

Porper said:
			
		

> Is anybody a member of ATAA ?
> 
> I would be interested in any feedback as I am looking at doing some type of T.A course.
> 
> I am a big fan of Nick Radge but his online course is $550 I think (by memory) which is a lot for a cd.Anybody had a go at his course ?




Yer i thought it was a bit too much as well porper.....I thought between $250 and $300 would have been a lot better and probably would have quad tripled sales.


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## wavepicker (21 May 2006)

You know Porper,

I have spent literally thousands on courses over the last 10 yrs. Most of those were very expensive and would have been better used as toilet paper!!

Believe it or not, in the end I learnt more by watching the markets myself and buying two $16 TA books from Amazon!!!

Nick seems to be offering quite a good deal there. Especially with the extra tuition. From what I have seen of Nick's work here, it is a small price to pay. This sort of knowledge will stay with you forever and you can only build on it with your studies and research in the future. 

Cheers


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## wayneL (21 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> Yer i thought it was a bit too much as well porper.....I thought between $250 and $300 would have been a lot better and probably would have quad tripled sales.




Lets put $550 into context

It is the quality of information that counts. I'll bet there would be a substantial number of visiters to this site who would have paid $3,000 or more for one or another seminar, AND GOT NOWHERE NEAR THE QUALITY Of INFO that Nick is supplying.

All you get is hype, magick moo cows, or share renting or some such BS.

There are two types of educators:

1/REAL traders who also educate. These are noteworthy by their honesty, lack of hype and usefulness of information in the REAL WORLD.

2/ Educators who are EX traders (usually failed traders). These are noteworthy in that their seminar/educatoin business is fully fledged, full of hype, infer they are millionaire traders, imply that you too can be a millionaire by next week, and emphasize one or two strategies, such as magic bloody moo cows or something equally ludicrous.... oh, and they charge in excess of $3,000 for a largely useless seminar that is primarily designed to onsell you to the super duper ultra speacial billionaires trading seminar for $10,000 - $30,000.

I happen to know quite a few people who USED to trade. All are graduates of these ridiculous, overpriced courses.

Conclusion: $550 is very reasonable for the quality of info plus individual tutoring (something else you won't get for your $3k in the other rubbish).

 Cheers


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Lets put $550 into context
> 
> It is the quality of information that counts. I'll bet there would be a substantial number of visiters to this site who would have paid $3,000 or more for one or another seminar, AND GOT NOWHERE NEAR THE QUALITY Of INFO that Nick is supplying.
> 
> ...




lol.....but u two are friends and drink at the same bar.......


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## wayneL (21 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> lol.....but u two are friends and drink at the same bar.......




Noosa is a long way from Geraldton my friend. We would have to meet somewhere around Alice Springs if that were so.


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Noosa is a long way from Geraldton my friend. We would have to meet somewhere around Alice Springs if that were so.




Sorry Wayne i thought Geraldton was a suburb next to Noosa not a suburb next to Alice Springs........must be tech/A that drinks at the same bar.

Anyway i meant that he should do a much better deal for paid members of the chartist such as myself.


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## wayneL (21 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> Sorry Wayne i thought Geraldton was a suburb next to Noosa not a suburb next to Alice Springs........must be tech/A that drinks at the same bar.





ROFL 

Geraldton is an exciting and world famous  city on the west coast of Western Australia, 425 kms nth of Perth.

You would be struggling to find two places futher apart in OZ... Auckland is prolly closer.

Alice would be roughly in the middle. But I have a feeling you knew all that


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## Porper (21 May 2006)

Nick Radge said:
			
		

> Just to clarify, the CD comes with 3-months tutoring via email. The course was written in 1998 and still sells well today. More importantly what is in the course still works, bull or bear!




I wasn't putting a downer on your course Nick and didn't intend to insinuate all you got was one CD.But having spent only a few dollars on books, the next step seems a large price to pay.

I do respect Waynel and Techs comments on this and have taken their enthusiasm on board.


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## MichaelD (21 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> Yer i thought it was a bit too much as well porper.....I thought between $250 and $300 would have been a lot better and probably would have quad tripled sales.



The problem with pricing things in this game is that value is not necessarily related to price. There are lots of very expensive black boxes out there that are worthless. There are lots of expensive seminars out there that are worthless. On the other hand, there are lots of very expensive mentoring programmes out there that are fantastic value for money given you are given the knowledge to become profitable in the markets on a long term basis.

Unfortunately, the price is not a valid way to judge the value of stock trading information.

Also unfortunately, when approaching this from the point of view of a newer trader, it is very very hard to determine what is and what isn't good value for money.

I'd suggest that a very good principle when deciding when something is valuable or not in this game is whether it covers these two areas of trading;
1. Risk Management
2. Money Management

i.e. The book/CD/course/whatever explains to you how to work out how much of something to buy and when to sell it.

If the material only covers entry signals it is worthless.

Michael D


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## stink (22 May 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> The problem with pricing things in this game is that value is not necessarily related to price. There are lots of very expensive black boxes out there that are worthless. There are lots of expensive seminars out there that are worthless. On the other hand, there are lots of very expensive mentoring programmes out there that are fantastic value for money given you are given the knowledge to become profitable in the markets on a long term basis.
> 
> Unfortunately, the price is not a valid way to judge the value of stock trading information.
> 
> ...




THanks Michael,

I agree, i have found alot of courses out there basically just show you how to work the software and dont cover investing fundamentals etc.

The course i am going to do is for 12 months training covering a wide range of topics such as Risk management and Money management. There is also a module about creating your trading strategy in which they help you develop your trading method.

Cost also covers the software that they use Trader Pro 2000 i think and any future software upgrades and full tech support for life.

They have a mentor programe where you are able to contact one of the full time traders anytime if you need to.

The course is teaching that until you are getting 7 from 10 trades correct paper trading, they advise you dont put any money into the market.

I have also been given contacts of existing members that live here in Townsville, which i think is great they are obviously not worried being bagged etc. 

So all in all it seems to be a pretty well rounded course and support system, comparing to others that i have looked into. Time will tell!

Cheers Stink


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## tech/a (22 May 2006)

> The course is teaching that until you are getting 7 from 10 trades correct paper trading, they advise you dont put any money into the market.




Alarm bell.1

Wonder what Money management ,risk management will cover then?

Alarm Bell 2

7/10 trades---over what period--week a month a year.
Over how many trades
10,1000,10000?


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## MichaelD (22 May 2006)

tech/a said:
			
		

> 7/10 trades



Perhaps they are referring to 7/10 trades executed according to plan and not 7/10 profitable trades (it depends on what they mean by the word "correct")   

Michael D


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## stink (6 June 2006)

HI All,

Just wanted to let you know that i went ahead with the course and couldnt be happier. I have learnt a great deal from active traders during ther course both instructional and fellow members.

Although no amount of education can remove the risk from trading, i am very confident that once my trading plan is in place i will be successful. I will keep you posted on that 

The course did cover both risk and Money management and went through practical examples of how the principles are applied.

Furthermore i am able to go to as much training as i want over the next twelve months which is great.

Anyway for me its definately been the right decision as i would not have gone into the market by doing solo research etc.

Cheers All


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## wayneL (6 June 2006)

stink said:
			
		

> ...as i would not have gone into the market by doing solo research etc.
> 
> Cheers All




My views on most courses are well known. I don't know which course stink did, but if it's the one I think it is, it's not bad, but most certainly not worth 10k.

Probably the only value these courses have is the motivation, because of the atmosphere generated by crowds of people... as mentioned by Stink.

That could be a good thing, it good be a bad thing.

History proves that for most, it's not good.

Cheers

PS 10k eh? B4gger me! Anyone want to start a seminar company with me? : 

But good luck stink, hope all goes well for you


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## stink (6 June 2006)

HI Wayne,

I see your point and it is alot of money but when i can attend training as much as i like over a 12month period i can see the value in it. Plus talking to real people who are members not seminar attendee's they all have made there money back plus some within a 12 months. The only ones that havent have not actually entered the market as yet. Of course there are failures but its funny because the people who have lost or failed have not stuck to there trading plan etc or they overlooked something that would have kept them out of a trade in the first place.

Of course its a personal choice and i have my reasons for going down this path, i dont expect everyone to agree with them. I figure if i can cover my expenses within 12 months then what have i lost? If i dont i have still got an education and a skill that i otherwise would not have had. What does it cost to go to uni for twelve months?

What gives me confidence is that its not a seminar, its a nationally accredited training program, its tax deductable and i now have made aquaintances that are also members that are actively trading and making money as a direct result of this program. I mean we went through many examples of trades both good and bad that some of the members had made over recent periods etc. Its just real not something i am sent over the net or a book i read and am left all alone.

I can contact other members or the trainers themselves and discuss a potential trade, i get an excellent software program with all updates for life.

I dont care who thinks its good or crap i am just stating that it is right for me and i am sure there are others out there who would be in the same boat as me and need this type of influence to get them going?

Again i stated earlier in the post that i would let you all know what i decided so thats the only reason for this post. I tell you what " Give me six months and i will report back and let you know how i am going, if i am going downhill or out of the market then you can say "told you so" 

Regards
Stink


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## ben007 (10 June 2007)

Some really good advice is in this thread, so well done guys. 

Let me explain there is two types of education in the sharemarket ones provided by marketeers and good education provided by real traders. 

This thread started up asking for accredited education. The question that remains is 'what is accredted' There are some companies out there that are an RTO (Registered Training Organisations) which is a government license to teach accredited courses. There are only two share trading educators that actually teach an accredited course, the rest pretend that they do and when you talk to them they loosely imply there education is approved by the government, the one mentioned at the start of this thread is one of them. It is exceptionally hard to get a course accredited as you have to go through audits and the like to get approval. 


If you want to to find someone to learn to trade from you need to have a list of criteria to compare. If you want accreditation you only have two choices and both are very good. Here are some pointers. The best marketers often provide the worst courses (they have to market harder as they get few referals) Make sure the company you chose actually can prove what they do. It is easy to say you are the best educator, but proving it is much harder. Do they actively trade? Do they put out recomendations in a public forum such as a newsletter? (here you can gauge there results). Are they happy to give you clients to speak too? Do they sell on a guarantee? If they do then often this is a give away that thier course is not as good (the guarantees I have seen sound good but in the majority of cases are written so you will never be able to cliam on it, and as a novice you would never know this). Look to see if they are ASIC licensed preferably thier own license and not a representative of someone elses. Look to see if they are quoted in the media for expert comments as this tells you that the media have checked them out and beleive they are ok. 

Lastly do not believe the marketing documentation only beleive what you can veryify and prove. Good education cost less than ignorance        

Hope all this helps


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## ben007 (10 June 2007)

Sorry guys, forgotto put this link in my previous email. The link below is to the government website that lists all accredited training orgainsations and all accredited courses. If a company or course is not on there then they are not an RTO and the course it is not accredited by the government.  

http://www.ntis.gov.au/


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## R0n1n (10 June 2007)

I wonder if Stink would let us know how he has been doing...


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## CanOz (10 June 2007)

Porper said:


> I am a big fan of Nick Radge but his online course is $550 I think (by memory) which is a lot for a cd.Anybody had a go at his course ?




I've completed Nick's courses Porper, just recently, have you started them yet?

I thought the money was well spent. The lessons i've learned will be with me forever now.

Now i know where Tech/A was coming from being so re-iterative about entry's and thier non-priority. 

Cheers,


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## debaron (18 June 2007)

guys...

I'm very intrigued by all the posts above. I a now considering to get into a more formal education myself. However just one question, how much time do you spend on the training/courses and actual trading itself? I dont want to be glued to the market 24/7 as i am a full time professional thus i cant afford to check the market every single hour of the day. Enlighten me?


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## tech/a (18 June 2007)

The answer is simply to trade profitably what do you *NEED TO KNOW.*


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## jersey10 (15 April 2008)

is stink still around i would be interested in how he has gone with his trading since doing his course.  also what course is he referring to in his post?

tech: you say you will make the money from Nick Radge's course back in a day if you have a decent capital base - what is a decent capital base? in other words using the knowledge i would gain if i did Nick Radge's course what sort of returns would i expect on average?

jersey10


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## tech/a (15 April 2008)

Lets say a course --any course is under $1000.

If you truely learn what makes you profitable its not unlikely that you could recoup that in one good trade.Which is only a 5% move on $20,000 worth of stock not impossible in a single day.

Today
27 stocks with a monthly average T/O of $1,000,000
rose 5% or more.
If we include all stocks traded on the ASX
309 rose 5% or more.

Now if we traded with $100,000
1731 from the full list rose 1%
and 151 from the high liquidity list.

Aint that hard!


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## Porper (15 April 2008)

jersey10 said:


> is stink still around i would be interested in how he has gone with his trading since doing his course.  also what course is he referring to in his post?
> 
> tech: you say you will make the money from Nick Radge's course back in a day if you have a decent capital base - what is a decent capital base? in other words using the knowledge i would gain if i did Nick Radge's course what sort of returns would i expect on average?
> 
> jersey10




You could PM stink to see how it has turned out, but i.m.o you don't need to spend $10,000 to learn how to be profitable.

This thread has been resurrected from the dead.Interesting going back a couple of years on here I was undecided on whether to do Nick Radges course because it was $550 odd dollars.!! (still the same price).

Well I did do it and it is the best $550 I have spent.Together with Adaptive Analysis there is just about everything you need to know to stop losing money.Whether you will become consistently profitable will be up to you.

Effort = Reward.

I also did Robert Miners course around the same time for considerably more cost.Although I got a couple of things from it (so to me it was worth it) there was nowhere near as much quality info in it, and most of it was in Building a profitable Trading Plan  by Nick Radge anyway.

It is impossible to say how much you could make doing the course, it doesn't work like that jersey.The information is there, it's up to us to make of it what we will.


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## jersey10 (15 April 2008)

Porper said:


> You could PM stink to see how it has turned out, but i.m.o you don't need to spend $10,000 to learn how to be profitable.
> 
> This thread has been resurrected from the dead.Interesting going back a couple of years on here I was undecided on whether to do Nick Radges course because it was $550 odd dollars.!! (still the same price).
> 
> ...




yes i know what you mean, you can lead a horse to water but....

anyway, thanks for the replies tech & porper.

porper what level of trading were you at when you did the course? is it suitable for a relative beginner who wants to become a full time trader?

jersey10


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## Porper (16 April 2008)

jersey10 said:


> yes i know what you mean, you can lead a horse to water but....
> 
> anyway, thanks for the replies tech & porper.
> 
> ...




I have gone from being a fundamentalist, non TA believer 3 or 4 years ago to using TA for almost all of my trading/investing decisions.

The course is ideal for a relative beginner, or even intermediate level i.m.o, it will certainly help you towards your goal of becoming a full time trader, but i.m.o will not take you there although as I am not trading full time I am not the person to ask.

The dynamics must change beyond comprehension when relying on trading for a living, a lot easier on the nerves to know that you can afford to lose your initial capital base in the worst case scenario, or more realistically not have to make money all the time.

Also, if you are serious about trading full time, a mentor may be a good idea.There is a thread somewhere on this subject.


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## Kauri (16 April 2008)

Porper said:


> I have gone from being a fundamentalist, non TA believer 3 or 4 years ago to using TA for almost all of my trading/investing decisions.
> 
> The course is ideal for a relative beginner, or even intermediate level i.m.o, it will certainly help you towards your goal of becoming a full time trader, but i.m.o will not take you there although as I am not trading full time I am not the person to ask.
> 
> ...




 Couldn't agree more... someone has done the hard (and expensive) time trading professionally and has put it down in plain language.. even if you don't follow the exact methods it will still be the the best investment in trading you will make.. unless you happen to own shares in my local bottlie..    ..  seriously I was a hit and miss trader untill I did the *courses*.. now I'm just a trader who hits and misses the plonk.. not the trades.. 
Cheers
...........Kauri
Cheers
.........Kauri


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## Nessie (22 June 2010)

*Best Share Trading Education*

Hi, I have read a few of the existing threads but can't seem to gather any good insights into the best share trading education available for someone wishing to trade or learn more about trading shares and cfd's on the australian stock market. I have been investigating Wealth Within, but I am wondering whether I could learn the same from the Guppy courses or Nick Radge, for much less money. Has anyone got any direct experience and practical advice on this??


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## Joe Blow (22 June 2010)

*Re: Best Share Trading Education*



Nessie said:


> Hi, I have read a few of the existing threads but can't seem to gather any good insights into the best share trading education available for someone wishing to trade or learn more about trading shares and cfd's on the australian stock market. I have been investigating Wealth Within, but I am wondering whether I could learn the same from the Guppy courses or Nick Radge, for much less money. Has anyone got any direct experience and practical advice on this??




Hi Nessie,

This question has been asked so many times I have merged your thread with another thread that deals with the same topic. Best to keep all this information together as much as possible.

I also posted in another thread about trading education yesterday and listed a number of threads on ASF that deal with this topic: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562642&postcount=4


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## waza1960 (22 June 2010)

Nessie I did the diploma course you mentioned in the thread that has now been closed I'm not sure what the issue is there.
  I really enjoyed the course which give you a lot of detail and has the case studies and assignments to really make you think about what you're learning.
  If you assessed the price of the course based on hours of study to complete it its comes out very favourable.
  At the time I did the course it was the only Diploma course available in Australia and I felt secure that being a diploma course under an official framework meant that it was to a certain standard . This IMO is true.
 There is now another Diploma course available through ATAA/Kaplan which has the advantage of international recognition (CFTe)although it is a much shorter course and is cheaper so would be an alternative.
As a member of the ATAA (Australian Technical Analysts Association) I would recommend their monthly meetings as a valuable education resource as well.


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## Nessie (23 June 2010)

Thanks so much waza1960 for your feedback. I really appreciate it. I don't really want to spend $6000 on the course, and was tossing up maybe doing the Nick Radge course/cd instead, but I really want to improve my trading skills, and now I have found out about the technical analysis course by Kaplan, I will consider this too. The only problem with Kaplan's training is I would have to wait till May next year to enrol in the subject as it's just started. It's an interesting discussion on this thread and I appreciate everyone's insights. Thanks very much to all.


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## jessy (3 June 2014)

Hi Just wondering if anyone on here as done a  Trade With Precision course, and if so how did you find it ??? Thankyou in advance


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## luutzu (3 June 2014)

stink said:


> HI All,
> 
> Just new to the forum and looking for some opinions on formal trading education.
> 
> ...




Why is it OK for Australian taxpayers to foot your bill?
If i pay taxes, i'd be pretty upset that you guys not only enrolled in a course that I partly subsidised, you then go on and make bad business decisions from that course and I'd have to repay the taxes I ought to be collecting 

Unless you want to seek employment from a formal certificate, it's quicker and cheaper and probably make you a lot smarter to study by yourself.


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## ChaosHedge (18 August 2014)

luutzu said:


> Unless you want to seek employment from a formal certificate, it's quicker and cheaper and probably make you a lot smarter to study by yourself.




Is this a common opinion held by most? 

I'm currently considering enrolling in a Grad Dip in Applied Finance following a discussion with a successful trader. The usual question asked is whether the money is better spent on course work, or self-learn and keep the money for trading if/when I have confidence in my ability.

My gut feeling is that without the specific framework and guidance of the course, I wouldn't know what I should be studying, in what order, etc.

So my question is mainly for those who hold the qualification above, how difficult would it be to find the relevant material and structure my own study course to mimic the paid one?

Any comments are greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## burglar (18 August 2014)

ChaosHedge said:


> ... Any comments ...




What is the cost of said course?
Is it with a reputable firm?


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## ChaosHedge (19 August 2014)

burglar said:


> What is the cost of said course?
> Is it with a reputable firm?




Burglar,
From my searching so far it appears to be a fairly standard course run by universities as well as some online organisations. It's a post grad course for people who hold a degree in a non-finance field. Fees are around $20k at the uni's and $16k online. The suggested time taken is 1 to 1.5 years to complete the course work.
This is just the info I've found online so far, but I'm guessing there may be other options??
Cheers


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## burglar (19 August 2014)

ChaosHedge said:


> Burglar,
> From my searching so far it appears to be a fairly standard course run by universities as well as some online organisations. It's a post grad course for people who hold a degree in a non-finance field. Fees are around $20k at the uni's and $16k online. The suggested time taken is 1 to 1.5 years to complete the course work.
> This is just the info I've found online so far, but I'm guessing there may be other options??
> Cheers




Are the 'online organisations' of equal repute?
After all, even $16k is a lotta lute!


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## ChaosHedge (19 August 2014)

burglar said:


> Are the 'online organisations' of equal repute?
> After all, even $16k is a lotta lute!




I'm definitely no expert (I've only just started looking into this) but I believe the online ones are well regarded; In terms of being equal to uni's - I'm not sure??

But my main query for the people who have completed the course: are there a few decent textbooks that contain the majority of the material, or is it more focussed on practical/assignment work to pick up the skills/knowledge properly?

Thanks


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## jmg86 (19 August 2014)

If it was for self study, and you want the structure of a curriculum i would pursue a CFA over a Grad Dip any day.  Far more challenging, much cheaper and only a single exams for each of the 3 levels.  Its suggested 300 hours of study for each level.  Also would hold more weight than a Grad Dip for a career in Finance imo.

http://www.cfainstitute.org/programs/cfaprogram/Pages/index.aspx


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## ChaosHedge (20 August 2014)

jmg86 said:


> If it was for self study, and you want the structure of a curriculum i would pursue a CFA over a Grad Dip any day.  Far more challenging, much cheaper and only a single exams for each of the 3 levels.  Its suggested 300 hours of study for each level.  Also would hold more weight than a Grad Dip for a career in Finance imo.




Thanks for your reply jmg86. I appreciate your input.
I'm not expecting to work in the finance industry in the near future, this study would be purely for personal development with the end goal being able to succeed as a private trader.

I understand there are various courses/qualifications available but the big decision I need to make is whether to pay for a course or attempt to gain the same knowledge without enrolling in a paid course. i.e. By buying some relevant text books and working through the chapters on my own.

I would be interested to hear any recommendations for text books that are suitable for someone with the technical level of a finance student (good with maths but no formal finance education). As a starting point, it's been recommended to me to cover Fundamental Equity Analysis. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.


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## RT14 (20 August 2014)

If 'formal trading education' businesses could actually consistently make the money that most purport, why would anyone share the secrets at risk of any potential edge on others being washed away?

It is nonsense. 

They are cash-grab by scammers in the purist form. 

Here is a tip. Go on amazon.com. Spend $1,000 and purchase everything in sight. Read it and read it again. 

Do not spend $10-$20k on 'formal trading education' like the business that guarantees 34% returns annually.


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## saroq (28 August 2014)

Nick Radge said:


> Just to clarify, the CD comes with 3-months tutoring via email. The course was written in 1998 and still sells well today. More importantly what is in the course still works, bull or bear!




Hi Nick could you please post a link to the course / CD you are referring to or private message me the link.  Thanks


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## tech/a (28 August 2014)

After 20 yrs of trading my view is this.

Very very few teach *practical application* of methodology--Technical or Fundamental.

Libraries full of how to value this and that, how Macro economic effect micro economics.
How this or that Pattern/indicator/price movement/volume print/system will give you an anticipated result.

But the actual application of all this "knowledge" into a day to day - year to year business---you rarely get.

I've watched for years a few Very Very good traders and I've learnt more from what they say in passing and from observing what they do in various situations ---Applying their skills---than I have reading multitudes of books.

*So to me there is a void*

Im of the view that you hardly see it (Practical application) because there are volumes of theory and *very few *who walk the walk.

Never more so than in the area of 'education"
Plenty of Sizzle selling. People pay $1000s on Sizzle

But you don't get to feast on the meal.


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