# What To Pick?



## YourFriend (4 July 2012)

Hi, new member here. I know my English grammar could have been better but I hope this won't effect the topic too much.
After thinking for a while whether i should reply on old topic (not created by me) that already matches this message or start new topic, I decided to open new one and hopefully its nothing wrong with that.
I am also Total beginner when it comes to trading stocks/shares and investigating in them. Seriously, I don't even know which term is more appropriate; ''stock'' or ''share'', neither do I know what ''broker'' means. Im not asking this but just saying I am at total zero. Not even know which amount to report as an income on tax administration; the difference between selling and buying or just selling. Etc... 
Anyway what I have done is I harvested very tiny list of books on this forum. List is at the end of this message. First out of three queries that I have is:

I noticed people on this forum are mostly interested in Australia's market but I would like to learn in Worldwide's market. Are those books (any of them not?), see list below, still appropriate in this case?

Second query that I have is:

I am looking forward that books from who I would be learning meet some kind of requirements/wishes that I have. I am not trying to be silly but this way the time would be spent much better. Those requirements/wishes are:

- the books should NOT have (or very little of) stories and author's own opinions on given situation. I am NOT interested about what author had for the lunch a day ago. In different kind of science that I am also interested in, as well as in some ebooks that I was using for university' exams, in worst cases I noticed approximately 90% of useless stories being in the book. I could have written down on one side of A4 paper ALL useful notes from book of 350 pages. Im not interested in stories that have no value. Each or at least most of sentences should have something to learn from. When the book starts with history of X subject and what were people doing in that history, you know instantly this book won't be useful. You cannot learn anything from that. It won't be useful. When is in the middle of the text located sentence like:

''In the X situation do A subject, if you will do B instead, you are risking the lose''

you know you have just learned something.

- the books should cover a lot of microscopically small details that are worth knowing

- as few books as possible should cover as much topics (in this particular ''science'' about stocks/shares) as possible. With other words: I don't like to read the same sentences (exactly the same topic) in more than one book.

- books should start with matching the needs of TOTAL beginner who knows nothing about stocks/shares like me. Elsehow said: constructors cannot build the building in the second floor if they haven't started thinking how to BEGIN the drawing (not even constructing yet) of the first floor. I know on youtube are many video tutorials, I have seen them but they aren't in order based on level of knowledge.

Third query that I have is:

Does exist any virtual environment (either web or desktop application or even pc game) where I could test (not as quiz) specific, just learned, topic? I think this would have giant advantage in this learning ''journey''. If I wouldn't have success in chosen step then this meant I would have to recheck the specific topic. In opposite situation (success in virtual environment on specific step) I had the knowledge that I could rely on when beginning with next step. Years ago (and probably still nowdays) some pc game used to exist with the name ''wall street tycoon''. But according to the second requirement in second query (if you don't remember it, please recheck) I cannot expect anything from such pc game - it for sure won't have such extreme amount of features to test knowledge on.

*In short, the renovation of the whole message: *Could you narrow down the books (or add better ones) to the most appropriate ones for beginner that have as much as possible covered topics?

How I made $2,000,000 In the stock market - Nicolas Darvas
Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets - Stan Weinstein
The Universal Principles of Successful Trading - Brent Penfold
Adaptive Analysis - Nick Radge
Successful Stock Trading - A Guide to Profitability - Nick Radge
Stan Weinstein's Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets - Stan Weinstein
Master the Markets - Tom Williams
Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom - Van K Tharp
Way of the Turtle - Curtis Faith
Curtis Arnold's PPS Trading System - Curtis Arnold
Trading for a Living - Alexander Elder
Reminiscences of a stock operator - Edwin Le Fevre
Trading in the Zone - Ari Kiew
The Four Pillars of Investing - William Bernstein
The Intelligent Investor - Benjamin Graham
One up on Wall Street - Peter Lynch
The Art of Trading - Christopher Tate


----------



## CanOz (4 July 2012)

Nick has a free ebook out now, it's essentially the first fifty pages of adaptive analysis. Have a search for it online. When I get out of bed I'll try to find it for you as well.

Start with that one. 

CanOz


----------



## Gringotts Bank (4 July 2012)

You want to cut through the crap, which is exactly the right approach.

Unfortunately even the best books have a LOT of crap in them.  They take one good idea and build a fortress of crap around them, and it's your job to pick out the good bit.

Try these websites for book summaries.  Will speed your progress.

www.wikisummaries.org/
www.getabstract.com/
www.cliffsnotes.com
www.sparknotes.com/
www.books-summary.com/


----------



## 5oclock (4 July 2012)

There is NO fast track to being a sharetrading expert.There are plenty of fast tracks to lose all your money.after you have read ALL of those books on your list YOU will know which is crap and which is not!! Many world class traders will tell you that THEY are still learning!! This is good advice do with it what you will, and good luck, we have all been where you are right now THATS how we know.


----------



## Tysonboss1 (4 July 2012)

Your decision on what to study should be based on what you want to become.

Do you intend on being a Trader or and Investor?

That is probably the first question I would dwell on, and then depending on your answer choose which lines of study you will follow.

If it is Investing you wish to do then Benjamin Grahams "Intelligent Investor" is a good start, It outlines the frame work for what Investing is and how it is distingished from speculating.

After the Intelligent Investor if you want further reading you can progress to Ben Grahams "Security Analysis".

Part of the Intelligent investor is available as audio on you tube, it is broken up into 24 parts.

Here is part 1,


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 July 2012)

I've only read one of those books and it was more for the great story than any learning how to trade. It was of course Reminiscences of a stock operator.

But take your own road. Don't friggin read any of them.


----------



## CanOz (4 July 2012)

The journey through the beginners cycle is inevitable for everyone. I would like to think i am nearing the end of mine...It is actually more of a journey of self discovery than a search for the none existent 'holy grail'.

Hopefully you will be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff and find out what time frame, instruments, and style of trading or investing suits your personality best.

Don't put any money on the line until you at least define these things. The market will always be there and the opportunities will be there as well. Take your time...

CanOz


----------



## tech/a (4 July 2012)

> But take your own road. Don't friggin read any of them.




Frankly I think the "L" plates are off when you cant be bothered answering the zillion "How and what do I trade threads".

But T/H's comment has me quacking.

My own view is that if you do this long enough T/H is right you will develop your own belief system along with your own trading method.

Ive read very little that has added to my own beliefs ( relative to what I've read ). But Ive *OBSERVED *far more which has been influential.
Watching Radge for 20 yrs through good and bad has has an impact heavily on some areas of my trading--RISK-position sizing and importantly Portfolio management. All topics rarely asked about--if ever.

My advice (Being a visual Duck) would be to read some books grab things that "Gel" with you then go and see if you can find it on *YOU TUBE* and then watch it being *applied*.

I personally have picked up way more this way than books alone. Unless you can see it applied its just a jumble of words on a piece of paper.

Mind you some of those clips I just shake my head---err beak!


----------



## explod (4 July 2012)

tech/a said:


> Mind you some of those clips I just shake my head---err beak!




Agree Tech, and gradually, it takes many years to look at a chart in simple terms and see the sentiment and momentum and just know.  It is time and experience that feeds into your intuition

Unfortunately that experience comes from many things and can only say to new people coming in to be patient, don't get to excited and look at anything you can get hold of.

I began a long way back and W. D. GANN's book on "How to make profits in commodities" was a great one if you can get hold of it for a start.  Published in the 1950's.


----------



## Julia (4 July 2012)

YourFriend said:


> I am also Total beginner when it comes to trading stocks/shares and investigating in them. Seriously, I don't even know which term is more appropriate; ''stock'' or ''share'', neither do I know what ''broker'' means. Im not asking this but just saying I am at total zero. Not even know which amount to report as an income on tax administration; the difference between selling and buying or just selling. Etc...



If you really have no understanding at all as outlined here, my suggestion is that the first thing you should do is find out how the Australian market works before you start buying all sorts of books which may contain esoteric advice beyond your capacity to absorb.

Go to http://www.asx.com.au/
and click on the link to "Education and Resources".
Some of the headings from there are


> Shares
> 
> * What is a share?
> * Why and how to invest
> ...




I'm pretty sure each section has a "Test what you have learned" quiz at the end.
Best imo to learn to walk before trying to run.


----------



## burglar (4 July 2012)

Get a mentor!


----------



## YourFriend (4 July 2012)

Thank you for replies.

Gringotts Bank: I didn't mean anyhow I don't want to spend time on learning. I do but time would be used a way better with noncrap text. For sure you cannot learn anything from the sentences how much author earned on X date. I was going to avoid those nothing-to-learn-from sentences.

Tysonboss1: For the level of knowledge where I am currently at, the trading and investing would not have much difference - I believe buyers (investers) for sure sell them once they feel the price is appropriate. So investors therefore probably turn into traders quickly. I don't know but if it is just about how much money you can make, you need to trade/sell something. Investigating/purchasing (is this the same?) won't bring you any income. So my answer to your question is: both, investigating and trading.

CanOz I replied to your PM. Thanks for them.

burglar hehe yes thats what I have thought of but thats not gonna happen. Have zero budget excluding perhaps the price of the book if cannot be found online. So will need to do the work myself.

Few weeks ago, I remember I have signed on for some free Timothy Skies (i heard the person is good) lessons but never gotten anything excluding automated email messages. Don't really like the idea of youtube videos or checking and making the notes of just about every single topic on this forum. Must start on first step but what I can randomely discover is very unlikely the explanation match the FIRST step. Of course here occurs the question which topic would be the best on this first step? Probably layout of the stock how it looks like and how it is sent to you (via post office, email etc). I could do what tech/a suggested or at least what I understood from his reply: Simple writting down the notes, whatever I consider as being worth knowing, from random videos. But on the other hand: If you didn't know the result of 1+1, would you be able to filter out the worth knowing elements of constructing rocket explanation? Probably not 
Actually what brought me here are my job application requests. I have graduateed on university for mechanical engineering, somehow specialized (at least from aspect of diploma thesis) in piece of quality assurance but nowdays in our country responsible people for recruits/novices in company don't even answer to applications. Due to financial crisis and too high amount of nonemployed persons, many people, including me, don't have a job YET. How long will this last I cannot know. But I have been having a plenty of free time for the past few months and I thought I could use it better so I will have something in return in the future. I could fail but at least I tried so. Without trying nothing could be done.
I would still like to repeat the same two questions asked in my first message because I didn't find the answer at all:

- are those books for worldwide's market (investing + trading) or just australia's one? I think same knowledge could be used anywhere so I assume they are also for worldwide market.

- does exist any virtual environment where I can test what has just been learned? Not a quiz, anything else like testing the virtual but real time situation? Doubt if pc game ''wall street tycoon'' is good choice.


----------



## burglar (4 July 2012)

YourFriend said:


> ... So will need to do the work myself.
> ...




I did not mean a _paid_ tutor.

I meant "a friend in the know", a sounding board so to speak!


----------



## So_Cynical (4 July 2012)

Julia said:


> Go to http://www.asx.com.au/
> and click on the link to "Education and Resources".
> Some of the headings from there are




+1

http://www.asx.com.au/resources/shares-education.htm

when you have finished with everything on the ASX site (6 months minimum) then go read a book.


----------



## JEEZB (7 July 2012)

ASX Sharemarket Games are hands-on and interactive  Starting with a hypothetical $50,000 to invest you get to create your own share portfolio.You buy and sell shares in ASX-listed companies using real market prices in real share market conditions. Registration is open now - and there's prize money. Great way to start and learn.


----------



## joea (7 July 2012)

YourFriend said:


> - are those books for worldwide's market (investing + trading) or just australia's one? I think same knowledge could be used anywhere so I assume they are also for worldwide market.
> 
> - does exist any virtual environment where I can test what has just been learned? Not a quiz, anything else like testing the virtual but real time situation? Doubt if pc game ''wall street tycoon'' is good choice.




Yourfriend

First I think your post name may have come from the movie "Disclosure".
Second you may accept books written by an academic.

There is an academic called Roger Kinsky. 
Go to ..AMAZON bOOKS.. enter KINSKY..up will come Shares Made Simple: A Beginners Guide To Sharemarket Success.
You can search the Contents of the book to see if it suits you. or any book you have on your list for that matter.

My questions to you. If you are clued up enough to go to uni, why can you not get a job?
If you cannot get a job in the real world, what makes you think you will be successful in the 'world of trading".??
What did you Graduate in?

Why not download Incredible Charts and paper trade?
joea


----------



## joea (7 July 2012)

Yourfriend

If you are in Sydney there is a free seminar at the Sydney Exhibition Centre FRI 20 -21.
Navigate you way to smarter investment decisions. 

" What you get by achieving your goals, is not as important as what you become by achieving
your goals"  -Zig Ziglar.

joea


----------



## springhill (7 July 2012)

Yourfriend,
I have a copy of Intelligent Investor you can have for nothing if you want. PM me if your interested


----------



## YourFriend (7 July 2012)

The link which So_Cynical gave me seems interesting. I have been reading the tutorials there for a while now. I wouldn't say it has much topics (at least not to small details) covered but they seem to be really for total beginner which is what I was searching for before I start with books that I gathered already.

JEEZB: Yes I noticed those games but do I have to pay $3000 in order to access so called ''Public Sharemarket Game'' as says on the website?

joea: I never heard about that movie. Why I cannot get a job? I can but most of companies either don't search for novices or need them in different kind of environment. Actually I was (and still) applying from several environments, not just quality assurance. Nowdays, at least in our country counts that higher your education level is, less chance you will have to come in touch with job supplier to get a job. By latest statistics, two weeks old, there is not a single room for a job for a person with PHD. What makes me think I could work in word of trading? When working online, you are mostly your own boss as self employed. Im not saying I would want to be self employed, I have worked for exams on university 6 years. Definitely want to use the diploma in chosen environment which means getting the job for what I studied - at least for few years because I don't have in purpose to work whole life in manufactury. Of course on as high as possible level of company's hierarchy and not as regular machine operator. You asked me what I graduateed in. Mechanical engineering. When working online noone needs to accept you in order to give you job application acceptance to start working. Not sure what you mean with downloading ''paper trade'' so cannot comment on this. Im not from Sydney, Im from Europe, other side of the earth but would not mind coming to Sydney, at least for a trip 

springhill: Along with several other books, I also have The Intelligent Investor from Benjamin Graham but thanks for offer.


----------



## Aurum (7 July 2012)

I read "Reminiscences of a stock operator" in the late 90's and was amazed at how relevant a book written in 1923 was to the current time. I, of course, believed that it was different this time and completely missed the signs that the tech crash was just around the corner. With hindsight, it's obvious that the crash would have been foreseen by Jesse Livermore. The particular thing from the book that I remember was the saying, "when the shoeshine boy asks about the market then that is the time to sell", this was apparent in the UK just before the tech crash.

So, not all "story" type books are useless. In actual fact, I'd say they teach very valuable lessons. Knowing that if A happens then do B without an understanding of why, is not a good way to progress.

Mike


----------



## Testpilot (7 July 2012)

Aurum said:


> I read "Reminiscences of a stock operator" in the late 90's and was amazed at how relevant a book written in 1923 was to the current time. I, of course, believed that it was different this time and completely missed the signs that the tech crash was just around the corner. With hindsight, it's obvious that the crash would have been foreseen by Jesse Livermore. The particular thing from the book that I remember was the saying, "when the shoeshine boy asks about the market then that is the time to sell", this was apparent in the UK just before the tech crash.
> 
> So, not all "story" type books are useless. In actual fact, I'd say they teach very valuable lessons. Knowing that if A happens then do B without an understanding of why, is not a good way to progress.
> 
> Mike




I agree with everyone else who has said Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.It is one of those books you can read five times and pick up something new and valuable each time. 

As for other books you should read one on technical analysis (such as Magee or Pring), one on fundamental analysis (Graham) and one one risk/money management. Then start trading demo accounts as the best way to learn is by doing (in my opinion).


----------



## joea (8 July 2012)

YourFriend said:


> The link which So_Cynical gave me seems interesting. I have been reading the tutorials there for a while now. I wouldn't say it has much topics (at least not to small details) covered but they seem to be really for total beginner which is what I was searching for before I start with books that I gathered already.
> 
> JEEZB: Yes I noticed those games but do I have to pay $3000 in order to access so called ''Public Sharemarket Game'' as says on the website?
> 
> ...




YourFriend
I have twin boys involved with energy and mining.
They are in a global loop of jobs with Woodside , Shell etc.
I will put my email on my profile. oops. have sent you a PM.
Send me an email on where and what you want to work at and I will get them to bat for you a little.
We will see what happens.
joea


----------



## joea (8 July 2012)

yourfriend

Have you tried www.exfin.com
On the right hand side is job finder.
joea


----------



## YourFriend (8 July 2012)

joea this website cannot be accessable from my location due to area restriction. I currently don't have any australian proxies available.


----------

