# Go Markets



## chops_a_must

Just going through my e-mails, I came across this go-markets thing in the usual stuff from ASF.

I'm just wondering something about this:

"Our SPI contract attracts a margin of only AU$2,833 rather than the $11k at the exchange and our E-mini S&P 500 requires a margin of just US$1,000. GO Markets' MetaTrader4 platform also enables clients to trade micro lots on futures meaning you can trade with a smaller exposure and with less risk. 

For example: Trade 0.1 lot of APZ8 (SPI) for a margin of $283.30 and commission of just 20 cents!"

I don't understand the micro lots thingy. How does this operate? How are they able to do it? Or is it just a MM CFD type thing? I don't understand.

Cheers.


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## professor_frink

chops_a_must said:


> Just going through my e-mails, I came across this go-markets thing in the usual stuff from ASF.
> 
> I'm just wondering something about this:
> 
> "Our SPI contract attracts a margin of only AU$2,833 rather than the $11k at the exchange and our E-mini S&P 500 requires a margin of just US$1,000. GO Markets' MetaTrader4 platform also enables clients to trade micro lots on futures meaning you can trade with a smaller exposure and with less risk.
> 
> For example: Trade 0.1 lot of APZ8 (SPI) for a margin of $283.30 and commission of just 20 cents!"
> 
> I don't understand the micro lots thingy. How does this operate? How are they able to do it? Or is it just a MM CFD type thing? I don't understand.
> 
> Cheers.




yeah it's a MM thing. I sent them an email asking about it, below is the reply from the sales rep - 



> Our Futures are OTC, so we provide you with the real market live but
> your orders are hedged separately by us. This allows us to offer micros.
> 
> We do not provide Market Depth on Futures with MT4.


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## Trembling Hand

I have actually opened an account but no yet bothered to fund it. As you all know I like to tickle the MM from time to time but what has worried me is that they give the impression that the orders are not auto but manual from their end??

Would some one who trades with them give an indication of execution times?? Please 

Their ads are a bit deceptive though. You would think that the ASX/SFE SPI fut is copyrighted and they could not actually claim that you are trading the SPI.


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## superkrusty

Hi TH,

I have been trading the SPI the last couple of days with Gomarkets and have found order times to be really fast but this is my first live account (newbie). 

Have not had one re-quote and have placed > 50 trades a day.

Have lost all my money however that seems to be my own fault and not gomarkets...

After so much advice here I still fell into the traps, I can now see why you say that you need a minimum of 20 - 30 k to get started. Back to the drawing board for me.

After reading about trading the SPI from you guys for the last year this was the only way I could start to try and get a feel for the price movement at least until I open an account with IB down the track.

The only bit of good news for me was to read your post saying how strange the SPI has been the last couple of days. At least if the gurus are having trouble some days doesn't make me feel so bad , I put it down to learning experience and move on..


Disclaimer - this is my first attempt at trading and my first broker (live)


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## Trembling Hand

superkrusty said:


> Have lost all my money however




Oh well back to the drawing board hey


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## Naked shorts

Trembling Hand said:


> I have actually opened an account but no yet bothered to fund it. As you all know I like to tickle the MM from time to time but what has worried me is that they give the impression that the orders are not auto but manual from their end??
> 
> Would some one who trades with them give an indication of execution times?? Please
> 
> Their ads are a bit deceptive though. You would think that the ASX/SFE SPI fut is copyrighted and they could not actually claim that you are trading the SPI.




I trade currencies with them TH, and the execution times are better then online providers i have used. I did have one trade that took noticeably longer then usual, it took 3seconds rather then the usual 1sec.

The volume provided on the MT4 platform is deceptive, I gave them a call the other day and they said the volume indicated is actually the amount of different bids that have been placed


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## superkrusty

TH , when scalping the SPI using a MM are you still looking at the DOM on IB platform or are you trading entirely by price movement.

Does the 2 point spread make it more of a nuisance or almost impossible ?

Sorry for all the questions but I need to learn and preserve my capital for next time.


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## Trembling Hand

superkrusty said:


> TH , when scalping the SPI using a MM are you still looking at the DOM on IB platform or are you trading entirely by price movement.



 Both.



superkrusty said:


> Does the 2 point spread make it more of a nuisance or almost impossible ?



 Almost impossible unless you restrict yourself to the first 30 min and last 30 min where the spreads are large and the range of movement greatest.



superkrusty said:


> Sorry for all the questions but I need to learn and preserve my capital for next time.




There is no way in the world you should be scalping when starting your first live account. Madness!!

A small account doing >50 trades a day with a MM is going to put you down about 150 ticks just to start!! How the hell is a newbie going to cover that with low skill


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## superkrusty

Trembling Hand said:


> Both.
> 
> A small account doing >50 trades a day with a MM is going to put you down about 150 ticks just to start!! How the hell is a newbie going to cover that with low skill




hmmm, well the newbie *isn't* going to cover that and has learnt his lesson the hard way.  It just seemed like every trade i took was wrong , even the laws of probability seemed to work against me.

It is just that everyone says you have to watch the market and find the patterns which is what I was trying to do. Even with small trades (.2 of a contract) it eats into a small capital really quickly.

Seems I have learnt a lot more in 3 days of *MY* money than 1 year of trading demo accounts


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## Trembling Hand

superkrusty said:


> It just seemed like every trade i took was wrong , even the laws of probability seemed to work against me.




A lot in that.


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## superkrusty

TH , give me some advice and I will follow it to the letter. I am keen to succeed in trading and willing to put in the time and effort. Please.

I am not asking for your trading plan or wanting to get hand fed everything just give me Step 1 so I can follow the road to success and not years of the wrong path.

My thoughts for step 1 is to keep trading micro amounts on the SPI with Gomarkets and practice trading as per your post to lindsay 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=369744&postcount=9

Thanks for your advice so far and your input on this forum, I know I appreciate it and I am sure others do too.


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## Trembling Hand

For starters you have to have an idea of what works and what the hell the market is likely to do on any given day. Have a look at Frank D thread and blog.

Then you can go about finding patterns that suit/match your expectation of the day and hopefully trading it with some idea about what the hell you are doing.

I doubt doing >50 trades a day as a starting point you have any idea what is going on but rather just reacting to mini moves and flicks and in the process getting cut to bits.

If you spent 6 months on a sim and made $$ doing 50 trades a day I would say that you are still up against it with a small account but keep going. If you continue to trade small accounts with money you can't afford to lose and are trying to learn at the same time you will end up shell shocked and never recover. IMO


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## superkrusty

Trembling Hand said:


> I doubt doing >50 trades a day as a starting point you have any idea what is going on but rather just reacting to mini moves and flicks and in the process getting cut to bits.




You hit the nail on the head with that one. Constant chasing my tail and losing on every trade. I didnt find this with SIM trading as I guess less emotion to get back what i just lost.

I am shell shocked and felt a bit sick at how quick it can go with bad decisions. It was not a lot of money and was money i was prepared to  lose but it has completely stuffed my expectations.... I read about this happening many times over the year and cant believe i am in the same position now.

I race pushy's and know how much of a psychological game that is , seems to be a few parallels. Will just have to push through for another turn at the front , and more training (miles = trading time i guess)!!


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## Trembling Hand

superkrusty said:


> I race pushy's and know how much of a psychological game that is , seems to be a few parallels. Will just have to push through for another turn at the front , and more training (miles = trading time i guess)!!





Or sit on the back and wait for the right time to attack. No point trying to ride away from a bunch of scratch riders when you are a limit rider :


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## professor_frink

superkrusty said:


> Hi TH,
> 
> I have been trading the SPI the last couple of days with Gomarkets and have found order times to be really fast but this is my first live account (newbie).
> 
> Have not had one re-quote and have placed > 50 trades a day.
> 
> Have lost all my money however that seems to be my own fault and not gomarkets...
> 
> After so much advice here I still fell into the traps, I can now see why you say that you need a minimum of 20 - 30 k to get started. Back to the drawing board for me.
> 
> After reading about trading the SPI from you guys for the last year this was the only way I could start to try and get a feel for the price movement at least until I open an account with IB down the track.
> 
> The only bit of good news for me was to read your post saying how strange the SPI has been the last couple of days. At least if the gurus are having trouble some days doesn't make me feel so bad , I put it down to learning experience and move on..
> 
> 
> Disclaimer - this is my first attempt at trading and my first broker (live)




What's wrong with doing some swing/position trading to build up enough capital, and then spending your spare time observing the market to try and learn a little about daytrading?

seems rather pointless if you don't have the funds or knowledge to do it properly


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## chops_a_must

Trembling Hand said:


> Their ads are a bit deceptive though. You would think that the ASX/SFE SPI fut is copyrighted and they could not actually claim that you are trading the SPI.



That's exactly why I asked!!

It seems extremely, extremely misleading. Horrible really.

How on earth can they claim you are trading the futures, and give you the contract code, when all you are trading is the MM???

Incredible.


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## superkrusty

professor_frink said:


> What's wrong with doing some swing/position trading to build up enough capital, and then spending your spare time observing the market to try and learn a little about daytrading?
> 
> seems rather pointless if you don't have the funds or knowledge to do it properly




Well Prof, that was the initial plan. I have been watching the EUR/USD mostly but after reading so much about the SPI here thats where I thought the best success might come.

I think your advice is spot on. I will try some swing trading/position trading on the EUR/USD and study the market more instead of having a nervous breakdown every 2 seconds as price change.

I was thinking of placing small trade with reasonably tight stop on e the E/U at about 4-30 pm and then checking again next morning. If it moves only down or only up I stand to be in profit , if it hits my stop then I have only lost very small amount.

What do you think ?  low risk isn't it ?

I had a post of yours bookmarked that had a few simple rules but can't find it now. Will search through old posts.


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## prawn_86

superkrusty said:


> I was thinking of placing small trade with reasonably tight stop on e the E/U at about 4-30 pm and then checking again next morning. If it moves only down or only up I stand to be in profit , if it hits my stop then I have only lost very small amount.





Sounds like gambling to me.

Why not go the the casino and choose red or black


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## professor_frink

superkrusty said:


> Well Prof, that was the initial plan. I have been watching the EUR/USD mostly but after reading so much about the SPI here thats where I thought the best success might come.
> 
> I think your advice is spot on. I will try some swing trading/position trading on the EUR/USD and study the market more instead of having a nervous breakdown every 2 seconds as price change.
> 
> I was thinking of placing small trade with reasonably tight stop on e the E/U at about 4-30 pm and then checking again next morning. If it moves only down or only up I stand to be in profit , if it hits my stop then I have only lost very small amount.
> 
> What do you think ?  low risk isn't it ?
> 
> I had a post of yours bookmarked that had a few simple rules but can't find it now. Will search through old posts.




Oh dear, bookmarking my posts! I think we've found the problem folks

On a slightly more serious note, the idea you've described above sounds pretty dodgy(maybe it's because you haven't explained it fully). Why short? And why at 4:30pm? And why the Euro?


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## superkrusty

professor_frink said:


> Oh dear, bookmarking my posts! I think we've found the problem folks
> 
> On a slightly more serious note, the idea you've described above sounds pretty dodgy(maybe it's because you haven't explained it fully). Why short? And why at 4:30pm? And why the Euro?




Sorry for not being clear , I mean study the days movement and with that information try and predict the overnight movement and go long or short based on that. If there is a big swing down or up and does not retrace and take out my sop then I could stand to make quite a big profit. If it does take out my stop then I have only lost a very small amount due to my tight stop.

Not sure how to backtest this strategy but should help me understand the market and it's movements a little better , would you agree ?

Any other advice will be well received


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## professor_frink

superkrusty said:


> Sorry for not being clear , I mean study the days movement and with that information try and predict the overnight movement and go long or short based on that. If there is a big swing down or up and does not retrace and take out my sop then I could stand to make quite a big profit. If it does take out my stop then I have only lost a very small amount due to my tight stop.
> 
> Not sure how to backtest this strategy but should help me understand the market and it's movements a little better , would you agree ?
> 
> Any other advice will be well received




yeah just one bit of advice. Don't do it with real money until you know you can turn a profit doing it. Back testing, sim trading, whatever. Find out before you risk real $$


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## Wysiwyg

I don`t see you becoming un-confused via this sought of dialogue.


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## superkrusty

Wysiwyg said:


> I don`t see you becoming un-confused via this sought of dialogue.




any recommendations then ? All advice is taken onboard.


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## barney

superkrusty said:


> Well Prof, that was the initial plan. I have been watching the EUR/USD mostly but after reading so much about the SPI here thats where I thought the best success might come.
> 
> I think your advice is spot on. I will try some swing trading/position trading on the EUR/USD and study the market more instead of having a nervous breakdown every 2 seconds as price change.
> 
> I was thinking of placing small trade with reasonably tight stop on e the E/U at about 4-30 pm and then checking again next morning. If it moves only down or only up I stand to be in profit , if it hits my stop then I have only lost very small amount.
> 
> What do you think ?  low risk isn't it ?
> 
> I had a post of yours bookmarked that had a few simple rules but can't find it now. Will search through old posts.




Hi SuperK,   I read your posts and think .............. you sound like ........... well actually you remind me a bit of what I used to be like  (you poor individual ... lol ...) ............... 

Seriously though, if you think you can set an overnight play up on the Euro with a tightish stop loss and expect to find a system that will return a profit over time ... believe me, it will not work ....... You may get lucky for a few days/even weeks ... but eventually it will break your account .............. Forex is a great T/A vehicle, but the pro traders who push this market around will not let you be "casual" in your approach to trading it (imo) ............. If you are happy to set wide stops and trade small position sizes, it may work for a period, but I would rather trade the Futs with that system.

I understand where you are coming from, but unless you have a large Capital base behind you, the way you are thinking will eventually let you down ................. Other more experienced traders may like to confirm (maybe not ) my observations/ramblings .......


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## Wysiwyg

> any recommendations then ?




Yes of course.Read Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom by Van Tharp.

http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=5198&c=0&a=74

or/and

Trading For A Living by Alexander Elder.

http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=630&c=0&a=74


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## superkrusty

barney said:


> Hi SuperK,   I read your posts and think .............. you sound like ........... well actually you remind me a bit of what I used to be like  (you poor individual ... lol ...) ...............
> 
> .




haha that is funny as I have read a lot of your old posts too and really related too them..

I like your advice in the "Lindsays - Something to nothing scalping system " thread . I just wish that I had seen that thread before I started last week !!!  I hope the hard lessons I am learning help me move forward


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## superkrusty

Wysiwyg said:


> Yes of course.Read Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom by Van Tharp.
> 
> http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=5198&c=0&a=74
> 
> or/and
> 
> Trading For A Living by Alexander Elder.
> 
> http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=630&c=0&a=74




Thanks Wys, I will try and get a copy this weekend.


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## Naked shorts

Advice: Dont trade E/U, that market is crazy, stick with something closer to home, something that you hear about on the news every day, something that is easy to research information on.......something like A/U


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## ThingyMajiggy

Use demo accounts till your consistently profitable, which will be a long time because you will probably swap between 500 different systems because after you have one loss you will move onto the next system. So find what suits you best, that you feel most comfortable with and stick with it. Trade on demo only, just try and lose as much as you can on your demos then you know what not to do  Also, don't skip the "boring" parts of the books, because they are the most important by far. 

Good luck.


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## barney

superkrusty said:


> haha that is funny as I have read a lot of your old posts too and really related too them..
> 
> I like your advice in the "Lindsays - Something to nothing scalping system " thread . I just wish that I had seen that thread before I started last week !!!  I hope the hard lessons I am learning help me move forward




LOL   ... I often wonder if anyone reads some of the stuff I write ........... 

Geez, if you actually relate to some of what I write ... we might be half brothers in a previous life  

Seriously though .... Try and not make the early mistakes I made ... I lost a crapload "flying by the seat of my pants"  .... trying stuff with "real" money cause I didn't know any better .... Guess what?? .......... It didn't work !!

The funny thing about good advice is .......... You don't realise its good advice till after you've stuffed up enough times to gain "experience"  ........... 

Haha ...... Experience is just an abbreviated term for "I've stuffed up a lot" ..

There are quite a few folk on this site who are really worth listening to, and I'm sure you will work out who they are (I'm not included .. yet .... but I may have the occasional "small" pearl of wisdom )

If you are like me (again, my sympathies ) then ...

A) Work out what you WANT from the market

B) Work out what you NEED from the market

C) Add A+B and divide by 10 .. and that is what you will achieve when your T/A becomes proficient (If you have enough Capital left from "Pre-A" ... lol)

C)  If you ever extract "B" from the market you are probably in the 5% minority

D) If you get to "A" then you are .............. a step above "TH"  ... lol ....(Just kidding TH) 

Actually, if you ever get to "A", you may well be considered a "greedy bastard" ... and people won't like you no matter how much money you have!!

All jokes a side, I wish you well ......... 

Learning to trade well is a tough gig ....... 

Trading "well" after you learn how to trade, is even tougher, cause if you stuff up, there's only one person to blame. 

Enough ranting ............... Cheers.


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## white_goodman

the best educational experience you will ever have is going bankrupt


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## barney

white_goodman said:


> the best educational experience you will ever have is going bankrupt





Hi W/G, I agree that losing will teach you far more than winning (When you don't know what you are doing  ), but going Bankrupt is a dire  situation, and very difficult to recover from ........ but I get your point ...  

( I hope you have never been in that situation of going B/Rupt ....... )


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## BentRod

Naked shorts said:


> Advice: Dont trade E/U, that market is crazy, stick with something closer to home, something that you hear about on the news every day, something that is easy to research information on.......something like A/U




Not sure why you think EU is crazy??

AUD and EUR are both crazy!  

Either way he would actually be better off trading the Euro because of the lower transaction costs(spread) and the larger trading range....that equates to more bang for buck.


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## white_goodman

barney said:


> Hi W/G, I agree that losing will teach you far more than winning (When you don't know what you are doing  ), but going Bankrupt is a dire  situation, and very difficult to recover from ........ but I get your point ...
> 
> ( I hope you have never been in that situation of going B/Rupt ....... )




ive blown an account once before and that was a real eye opener, i was way too keen and could see dollar signs in my eyes... to be honest its the best thing ever, ive learned so much in such a short time.... probably cos im on like five of these forum type sites trolling everyday for info (usually at work lol)


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## >Apocalypto<

Naked shorts said:


> Advice: Dont trade E/U, that market is crazy, stick with something closer to home, something that you hear about on the news every day, something that is easy to research information on.......something like A/U




NS,

Did you know the E/U is the largest market on the face of the earth. It's the most liquid market on the earth today. Why do you think it has the tightest spreads? In FOREX terms it's the BHP!


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## barney

white_goodman said:


> ive blown an account once before and that was a real eye opener, i was way too keen and could see dollar signs in my eyes... to be honest its the best thing ever, ive learned so much in such a short time.... probably cos im on like five of these forum type sites trolling everyday for info (usually at work lol)




Yep, I do agree W/G ........ If you blew the Account, and you are still around "fighting" on, then that proves you learned some valuable stuff from the experience.

Trading actually teaches us a lot about ourselves on a personal level. ..

Funnily enough though, one of the greatest lessons "failure" taught me, was that I am lucky enough to have one of the greatest wives on the planet ....... She should have divorced me for the amount of cash I blew through stupidity ............. but instead, she forgave me ............... and, she still likes me !!!!   ...... sometimes  ....... LOL................. 

PS My daughter loves Zoolander .... haha ....


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## white_goodman

barney said:


> PS My daughter loves Zoolander .... haha ....




its Dodgeball lol.

Well luckily i didnt lose that much relatively. Also good that I dont have a wife... Im reading Reminiscences atm and the big thing im taking from it is that youve always gotta bounce back


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## barney

white_goodman said:


> its Dodgeball lol.
> 
> Well luckily i didnt lose that much relatively. Also good that I dont have a wife... Im reading Reminiscences atm and the big thing im taking from it is that youve always gotta bounce back




Absolutely .... Just got to try and make sure every time you bounce back, you bounce a little bit higher than the time before
:bounce:   

          :bounce:

                     :bounce:


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## skc

barney said:


> Funnily enough though, one of the greatest lessons "failure" taught me, was that I am lucky enough to have one of the greatest wives on the planet ....... She should have divorced me for the amount of cash I blew through stupidity ............. but instead, she forgave me ............... and, she still likes me !!!!   ...... sometimes  ....... LOL.................




You just lost a great deal of money and so there really wasn't much left on settlement. That why your wife didn't divorce you.

Luckily she didn't know about the stop-loss rule.


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## Naked shorts

BentRod said:


> Not sure why you think EU is crazy??
> 
> AUD and EUR are both crazy!
> 
> Either way he would actually be better off trading the Euro because of the lower transaction costs(spread) and the larger trading range....that equates to more bang for buck.




Fundamental analysis combined with technical analysis go together like a fat kid and warm chocolate cake (with sprinkles). 

Try some fundamental/a on EUR/USD pair and you will quickly realize you need to figure out the economic outlook for 16 different countries.

E/U isnt the only pair with tight spreads.



>Apocalypto< said:


> NS,
> 
> Did you know the E/U is the largest market on the face of the earth. It's the most liquid market on the earth today. Why do you think it has the tightest spreads? In FOREX terms it's the BHP!




Yes thanks, i did know that. Did you trade E/U when you first started trading?


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## barney

skc said:


> You just lost a great deal of money and so there really wasn't much left on settlement. That why your wife didn't divorce you.
> 
> Luckily she didn't know about the stop-loss rule.





Damn ..... and I thought it was cause she still liked me 

You are right about stop losses SKC .................. Money management is King in the market .............. If you have crap entries/exits, you will still probably blow the account, but it will take a lot longer !!

Unfortunately stop losses don't always accommodate for long "Trading Suspensions" and stocks gapping down on re-open 40% to a total of 70% pretty much overnight ............... That is not an excuse from me either ....... I was dumb!!!!! .................. 

Anyway, no need to dwell on the past ....... I'm in the black this year ....  (I did get a little help with some of that   but pretty much haven't made a real crap trade for a few months ... I used to do at least one a week  

Just to keep this on thread, I funded an Account with GO markets yesterday, Hopefully I'll get a chance to make a couple of bucks before TH takes them to the cleaners ... lol ....


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## superkrusty

That is what did me in. I thought with tight stops I could only ever lose a little and just let my winners run. My cunning plan fell apart because I didn't have enough winners. Then I started loading up to get back what I lost.

The thing that really bugs me is that I have read about not to do this many times. I have also done this demo trading and knew I was prone to do this.

Maybe I should post every trade I do when I save some more "spare" money to keep me honest.

Thanks barney and everyone else for help and advice. I am feeling more positive that I can still make a go of this.


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## barney

superkrusty said:


> That is what did me in. I thought with tight stops I could only ever lose a little and just let my winners run. My cunning plan fell apart because I didn't have enough winners. Then I started loading up to get back what I lost.





Gidday SuperK,    We are definitely brothers in a past life .... lol .....   

Its a habit you have to find a way to break or MODIFY to suit your personality ..... 

Casinos make a fortune out of people like you and me ........ but the market is a lot more workable than a Casino ........... 

You don't need to load up to get even  .... Just find a way to put the odds in your favour ......  Its all about percentages ....  

Definitely no get rich schemes on the market, unless you take unreasonable risks ...............   no point to that

To trade well, you must be able to trade relaxed.  How each trader gets to that point is their own journey ........... I'm still carrying baggage from my past ballzups, but improving consistently ............ I'm not interested in making lots of cash out of the market yet ........... but when I prove my system over time with small contact sizes, I know that all I have to do is increase my stake/capital base, and the percentages will take care of the rest ............. Gotta love compounding !!

Good luck with it .............. My advice for what its worth ..... Stop trying to make money ..... Just try and become proficient .......... the money is just a bi-product of a successful trading plan.  Cheers.


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## prawn_86

barney said:


> Good luck with it .............. My advice for what its worth ..... Stop trying to make money ..... Just try and become proficient .......... the money is just a bi-product of a successful trading plan.  Cheers.




A good point here IMO.

If your trading FX try and finish each session with a positive amount of pip, or a positive amt of points if trading the index etc etc.

Obviously still stick to you money management, but at an early stage your probably not looking at pyramiding into positions, so then each trade should be the same size, so if you finish with a positive amount of points you will finish with a profit


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## BentRod

> Fundamental analysis combined with technical analysis go together like a fat kid and warm chocolate cake (with sprinkles).
> 
> Try some fundamental/a on EUR/USD pair and you will quickly realize you need to figure out the economic outlook for 16 different countries.




No thanks...I'll stick to 100% technicals:



> E/U isnt the only pair with tight spreads




Yeah but with a spread of 0.9 it is half the price of most to trade.


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## white_goodman

im trading the audnzd with great success and a 14 pip spread... tighter spreads dont automatically equal easier


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## Naked shorts

white_goodman said:


> im trading the audnzd with great success and a 14 pip spread... tighter spreads dont automatically equal easier




14pips! dam, i hope your not trading off anything less then a 15m chart


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## superkrusty

I work in my own business during the day and have time to trade in between customers. I have the time to learn so just have to control my emotions and trade smaller amounts while I learn. I have. I excuse and no reason to Beja e like I have but now know what to look out for. 

You are so right barney , that's why I stay away from casinos and pokies as I know I would not stay within my limits. I do have some self control , just have to apply it to trading too!!


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## Trembling Hand

white_goodman said:


> im trading the audnzd with great success and a 14 pip spread... tighter spreads dont automatically equal easier




14 pip spread at market orders no doubt   Ya kidding.

100 trades you are down 1400. just on a spread Ya kidding mate


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## white_goodman

Trembling Hand said:


> 14 pip spread at market orders no doubt   Ya kidding.
> 
> 100 trades you are down 1400. just on a spread Ya kidding mate




its not ideal but ive still made a solid 40% in about 8 trading days on my micro account


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## Naked shorts

white_goodman said:


> its not ideal but ive still made a solid 40% in about 8 trading days on my micro account




Good work white!

But still, what does that pair have that the others don't (except huge spreads)?


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## barney

Naked shorts said:


> Good work white!
> 
> But still, what does that pair have that the others don't (except huge spreads)?





True. 

A 40% return on any account is excellent W/G,  but almost impossible to trade a choppy market with that spread.

The Oz/NZ has been in a fairly healthy trend for a while now, so the spread for medium/longer term trades has been workable .... not sure I'd be holding it long for too much longer though ..

The Euro/GBP at about a 2 pip spread has looked a lot friendlier


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## Wysiwyg

barney said:


> True.
> 
> *A 40% return on any account is excellent W/G*,  but almost impossible to trade a choppy market with that spread.
> 
> The Oz/NZ has been in a fairly healthy trend for a while now, so the spread for medium/longer term trades has been workable .... not sure I'd be holding it long for too much longer though ..
> 
> The Euro/GBP at about a 2 pip spread has looked a lot friendlier




Not long back this year the AUD/USD was a short in the mid to high .90c`s and I had 2 full short contracts at .945c and trailed out at .93c 2 contracts held  till low .60`s would have pulled a cool 60 k + .

The % return in the market is potentially massive at times but this damn learning curve is extremely frustrating..  That is why we all love it and come back tomorrow in readiness, armed with yesterdays knowing..


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## barney

Wysiwyg said:


> Not long back this year the AUD/USD was a short in the mid to high .90c`s and I had 2 full short contracts at .945c and trailed out at .93c 2 contracts held  till low .60`s would have pulled a cool 60 k + .
> 
> The % return in the market is potentially massive at times but this damn learning curve is extremely frustrating..  That is why we all love it and come back tomorrow in readiness, armed with yesterdays knowing..





Yep. If only we could turn hindsight into foresight


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## chops_a_must

Wouldn't mind getting some commentary on this, cheers:



chops_a_must said:


> That's exactly why I asked!!
> 
> It seems extremely, extremely misleading. Horrible really.
> 
> How on earth can they claim you are trading the futures, and give you the contract code, when all you are trading is the MM???
> 
> Incredible.


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## Cartman

chops_a_must said:


> Wouldn't mind getting some commentary on this, cheers:





They might get around it because the actual Trademark name is SFE SPI 200 They just call it SPI Futures   although still using AP code  Have emailed the Co  Will let you know what response they give


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## Trembling Hand

white_goodman said:


> its not ideal but ive still made a solid 40% in about 8 trading days on my micro account




Yeah thats good but,,,,,,,,,,,, don't want to be a smart ar$e but tell us how you are going in 100 days. You would really need a HUGE edge to pay for that spread. IMHO.

But still well done.


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## Cartman

Cartman said:


> They might get around it because the actual Trademark name is SFE SPI 200 They just call it SPI Futures   although still using AP code  Have emailed the Co  Will let you know what response they give





For you Chops   Main gist of the reply as follows from GO

"The  ASX SPI contract is indeed an OTC contract but unlike many providers we use a pure feed so the price is unaltered and we charge a small commission rather than a widening or MM of the price. 
Gomarkets passes all its trades through to a liquidity provider who in turn has its own hedging policies so not every trade will neccessarily be put into the SFE or they may be placed in bulk.
Clients can in turn enjoy a reduced margin of $2833 with low commission and mini trades available.

It is worth taking a look at the live platform and running our feed in conjunction with what you are currently looking at so you can be satisfied regarding the prices on the APS"


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## chops_a_must

Cartman said:


> For you Chops   Main gist of the reply as follows from GO
> 
> "The  ASX SPI contract is indeed an OTC contract but unlike many providers we use a pure feed so the price is unaltered and we charge a small commission rather than a widening or MM of the price.
> Gomarkets passes all its trades through to a liquidity provider who in turn has its own hedging policies so not every trade will neccessarily be put into the SFE or they may be placed in bulk.
> Clients can in turn enjoy a reduced margin of $2833 with low commission and mini trades available.
> 
> It is worth taking a look at the live platform and running our feed in conjunction with what you are currently looking at so you can be satisfied regarding the prices on the APS"




Very interesting. And thanks heaps for that Cartman... I know you do what you wann. 

Could be a cheap way to hedge or train for the full futures if the prices and spreads are not actually synthetic, but are merely a recreation.

Speed execution would then sound like the biggest problem with this... but it seems a much better alternative than the MM indices.


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## Cartman

chops_a_must said:


> Very interesting. And thanks heaps for that Cartman... I know you do what you wann.
> 
> Could be a cheap way to hedge or train for the full futures if the prices and spreads are not actually synthetic, but are merely a recreation.
> 
> Speed execution would then sound like the biggest problem with this... but it seems a much better alternative than the MM indices.




Agree if the speed is good   "sounds pretty sweet to me"


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## white_goodman

Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah thats good but,,,,,,,,,,,, don't want to be a smart ar$e but tell us how you are going in 100 days. You would really need a HUGE edge to pay for that spread. IMHO.
> 
> But still well done.




yeh i dont expect it to be a permanent thing at all, Decembers spread has been pretty ****, hopefully get back to around 11pips in January, as profits have been down recently. Still profits tho.

AUDNZD has some unique features which make it good to trade...

im currently with ibfx as my account size is small and they do $100 lots (ie 1US cent per pip for USD currencies)...

ill change to Gomarkets once i start with micros...

then in the future far far away ill think about getting into ECN's.


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## Naked shorts

white_goodman said:


> yeh i dont expect it to be a permanent thing at all, Decembers spread has been pretty ****, hopefully get back to around 11pips in January, as profits have been down recently. Still profits tho.
> 
> AUDNZD has some unique features which make it good to trade...
> 
> im currently with ibfx as my account size is small and they do $100 lots (ie 1US cent per pip for USD currencies)...
> 
> ill change to Gomarkets once i start with micros...
> 
> then in the future far far away ill think about getting into ECN's.




Wouldn't recommend changing over to GoMarkets, I recently found out that the volume data given by their MT4 platform isnt volume. Its the number of different bids placed for that interval, a joke really.

Im looking at changing over to something like ninja trader, then getting a feed from Esignal (with actual FX volume), and getting brokerage done through IB. Anyone know if this setup is possible?


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## white_goodman

Naked shorts said:


> Wouldn't recommend changing over to GoMarkets, I recently found out that the volume data given by their MT4 platform isnt volume. Its the number of different bids placed for that interval, a joke really.
> 
> Im looking at changing over to something like ninja trader, then getting a feed from Esignal (with actual FX volume), and getting brokerage done through IB. Anyone know if this setup is possible?




i wouldnt mind using the same configuration but with metatrader... luckily atm i havent implemented VSA into my current strategy so volume doesnt bother me as much...


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## Trembling Hand

That's what esignals volume is from when I looked at it 3 or 4 years ago. May be diff now.
You can get vol from IB but it will not back fill (or I can't figure it out any way )


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## BentRod

Naked shorts said:


> Wouldn't recommend changing over to GoMarkets, I recently found out that the volume data given by their MT4 platform isnt volume. Its the number of different bids placed for that interval, a joke really.
> 
> Im looking at changing over to something like ninja trader, then getting a feed from Esignal (with actual FX volume), and getting brokerage done through IB. Anyone know if this setup is possible?




Since there is no actual Physical Exchange in FX , there can't be any accurate volume.

The only way to get volume would be if you were a bank and had the six(I think there is 6?) interbank feeds coming in and worked it out from there.

You could use futures volume, not sure how this would work though.


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## Naked shorts

BentRod said:


> Since there is no actual Physical Exchange in FX , there can't be any accurate volume.
> 
> The only way to get volume would be if you were a bank and had the six(I think there is 6?) interbank feeds coming in and worked it out from there.
> 
> You could use futures volume, not sure how this would work though.




e-signal supposedly has feeds to basically all the major banks (more then any other retail broker). I found a table somewhere that showed all the banks all the major retail FX brokers were connected to, but i cant find it now.

I'll give them a call


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## Naked shorts

well....they are supposedly the same. 

that will teach me for listening to people on other forums besides ASF

"foreign exchange is kinda difficult to calculate, so the volume provided by us on foreign exchange is actually tick volume"

Still, i think i will still go with ninja trader. MT4 is a bit limited

edit: E-signal does still offer market depth for forex
http://www.esignal.com/international/forex.aspx
Market depth would do me just fine


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## Dowdy

How's gotrader for trading stocks? 

I want to trade stock similar to the forex format - ie. trade in real time and you can see the chart moving when you make your trade.

The NAB online trading doesn't let you do that and trading at market price always is more.


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## Stormin_Norman

ECN is just a marketing ploy. its BS. there is no market for FX.

matching trades and taking the spread is what a good broker should do, and pass on the remaining exposure to a bigger player.

im not talking bucketshops, but good 'market making' fx brokers.

ECNs are merely passing your trade onto a bigger 'market maker' then the usual retail ones and charging you for the privilege (and missing out on profit in doing so - hence the commission charge).


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## Out Too Soon

Dowdy said:


> How's gotrader for trading stocks?
> 
> I want to trade stock similar to the forex format - ie. trade in real time and you can see the chart moving when you make your trade.
> 
> The NAB online trading doesn't let you do that and trading at market price always is more.




Dowdy I've just downloaded some free software called Quote Tracker & now can get what I think you want via my dumb old Westpac online acc, the only prob I've got now is while Quote Tracker is running I continually (every 30 seconds) get logged out of Westpac on the browser (security). Maybe NAB wont have the same problem. Typical that Westpac broking acc gives access to live feed but only provides a dumb interface.  I'm sick of $25 brokerage & a dumb service I need to upgrade. Can some suggest my best option?

 I want to use a live data feed the way QT uses it & beleive I deserve $6 or small percentage brokerage fees. Should I/can I possibly use Ameritrade to trade ASX shares or should I be looking at IB or someone else?

Main needs are ASX Shares, low brokerage & live feed for dabbling in day trading. ( been watching Wall St Warriors too have you? )
__________________


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## Naked shorts

Out Too Soon said:


> I want to use a live data feed the way QT uses it & beleive I deserve $6 or small percentage brokerage fees. Should I/can I possibly use Ameritrade to trade ASX shares or should I be looking at IB or someone else?




Well IB costs $6 minimum per asx trade....... you seem to already know this.... so why aren't you using them already?


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## Rogue Trading

Has anyone used Go Markets to trade the SPI?
Has anyone used Go Markets to trade the Aussie 200 index cfd?
How do you like using Go Markets?
Thanks.
Rogue Trading


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## local

Hello everybody
I am looking at Go Markets to trade SPI.
I like their micro lots.

0.1 Lot of APS_XX (SPI 200 Futures):

0.1 Margin: $283.30
0.1 tick-value: $2.50
0.1 commission (one-way): 20c.

Anyone is trading with them?
Seeking an opinion on
technical issues,fills,slippage, anything.
Especially if someone trades SPI with them.
Thanks


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## Trembling Hand

local said:


> Anyone is trading with them?
> Seeking an opinion on
> technical issues,fills,slippage, anything.
> Especially if someone trades SPI with them.
> Thanks




You mean a linked CFD?


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## local

"GO Markets offers *futures* contracts, traded online through our GO Trader trading platform on live streaming prices".

But I just read some posts and found out that they actually offer CFD on SPI.This is not what I wanted.
I wanted Futures SPI(AP).
I know IB. 
Anyone using other brokers?


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## Trembling Hand

local said:


> "GO Markets offers *futures* contracts, traded online through our GO Trader trading platform on live streaming prices".
> 
> But I just read some posts and found out that they actually offer CFD on SPI.This is not what I wanted.
> I wanted Futures SPI(AP).
> I know IB.
> Anyone using other brokers?




Think IB has most new accounts because they are the cheapest and a pretty good platform.

MFGlobal is the other big Aus Futs broker.


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## Bobby

local said:


> Hello everybody
> I am looking at Go Markets to trade SPI.
> I like their micro lots.
> 
> 0.1 Lot of APS_XX (SPI 200 Futures):
> 
> 0.1 Margin: $283.30
> 0.1 tick-value: $2.50
> 0.1 commission (one-way): 20c.
> 
> Anyone is trading with them?
> Seeking an opinion on
> technical issues,fills,slippage, anything.
> Especially if someone trades SPI with them.
> Thanks




I trade the Aussie 200 index futs with them , same live data as the SPI , have checked the feed in conjunction with another provider  !

Platform is good , no slippage problems , fill speed is ok for me .
 You can only place stops after trade execution , I don't bother as time is critical & I like the tension thats created not having any 

When executing you can choose from 0.1 , 0.2 , 0.3 etc up to 8 ,  (  as long as you have covered the margin ) thats $2.50 through to $200.00  a tick.
If you wish to use multiples of these to get greater leverage best you ask them ?
Now I've only used the lower levels so can't speak about fill speeds at larger tick amounts.

Good Luck .


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## local

Thanks everyone 
I found SFE Full and Clearing Participant Directory on ASX site.
Have to go through it .
Just trying to avoid trading with MM.


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## Bobby

local said:


> Just trying to avoid trading with MM.




Go are not the MM model , spread is real .


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## Trembling Hand

Bobby said:


> Go are not the MM model , spread is real .




Can you explain that? Because to me its still a MM. Its still them on the other side of the trade. And you still have to give up the spread on every trade. If you trade often this cost you.


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## Bobby

Trembling Hand said:


> Can you explain that? Because to me its still a MM. Its still them on the other side of the trade. And you still have to give up the spread on every trade. If you trade often this cost you.




Yes I know I'm down a tick down when going in short or long at market price, but can place a pending order.
Happy with the end results each day so far


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## white_goodman

Trembling Hand said:


> Can you explain that? Because to me its still a MM. Its still them on the other side of the trade. And you still have to give up the spread on every trade. If you trade often this cost you.




and theres no commission for FX so it sorta has to be a MM, its probably one of those things where they claim they have no dealing desk, but yes they are hedging against your trades somehow


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## local

My understanding MM is using synthetic feed and DMA is using actual ASX data.
The rep from Gotrader told me they are DMA using Esignal feed.
He said they are hedging.
Either way you are trading against the company something I am trying to avoid. 
So far it looks like IB  is the best choice to trade SPI .


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## Trembling Hand

MM don't hedge your positions they carry the individual risk. They may hedge overall exposure but they do *NOT hedge *your Trades. They make money off them.


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## Freddo

*Re: Go Markets - whats MM?*

"Originally Posted by Trembling Hand  
Can you explain that? Because to me its still a MM. Its still them on the other side of the trade. And you still have to give up the spread on every trade. If you trade often this cost you"

Can someone tell me what a MM is please?


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## beamstas

Go markets have both MM and DMA

When you start an account it is set to MM, and you must request a new DMA account to use it.


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## sails

*Re: Go Markets - whats MM?*



Freddo said:


> ...Can someone tell me what a MM is please?




In this context - Market Maker...


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## Naked shorts

beamstas said:


> Go markets have both MM and DMA
> 
> When you start an account it is set to MM, and you must request a new DMA account to use it.




What are you talking about, didnt GoMarkets scrap the MM model?


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## clayton4115

I've just signed up with Go Markets to trade CFDs, although early days yet, I am quite pleased with them.

They are very helpful on the phone and have a good trading platform, Go Trader.

Anyone else using Go Markets?


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## Naked shorts

Naked shorts said:


> What are you talking about, didnt GoMarkets scrap the MM model?




Just to clarify, they didn't scrap the MM model, they just changed it to variable spread.



clayton4115 said:


> I've just signed up with Go Markets to trade CFDs, although early days yet, I am quite pleased with them.
> 
> They are very helpful on the phone and have a good trading platform, Go Trader.
> 
> Anyone else using Go Markets?




I use them every now and then, and am happy with them, still waiting for them to open swapfree accounts.


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## metal man

I am trading FTSE and SPI on Go Markets. I am looking for some historical data, but having trouble getting it.

Anyone know where I can get some?


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## chinadragon

Naked shorts said:


> Just to clarify, they didn't scrap the MM model, they just changed it to variable spread.
> 
> 
> 
> I use them every now and then, and am happy with them, still waiting for them to open swapfree accounts.




Hello there, I am also using GoMarkets for already 4 or 5 months for Forex, my experience is quite good, I don't complain. On the other hand I am also using Sky-Fx dot com as IB, they give me US3 per traded lot.


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## denl

Hi Chris,
I have developed a problem with the GoTrader platform freezing every time I try to use it in the last week.  I have phoned support for help, but they do not seem to know what to do and suggested that I reinstall the program.  This I have done twice.

It works just fine until I replace the new GoTrader 4 file that is installed in Program Files on my C drive with the one that I saved that has all my setups and layouts on.

I emailed a zip file of my GoTrader 4 file for support to look at to see if they can identify what is in there that is causing the problem.  Can you follow up on this please?

I really don't want to go to the trouble of setting up all my charts and layouts again if I don't have to.

Thank you
Denis


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## Robshan

denl .... personally, from an IT perspective, I think you're approaching this from the wrong direction.

Most applications store profiles etc. outside of the main executable file.  If your fresh install works fine then leave it alone. 

What I have done is to set up a single chart with my preferred indicators, colour scheme etc. and saved it as a template.  If I want to look at a new currency pair, I open a new chart then load my template.

Sometimes you need to start over to get it right.... it's a pain but computers are like that.

If you still have access to your other templates then setting up the charts again shouldnt take too long at all.


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## denl

Robshan said:


> denl .... personally, from an IT perspective, I think you're approaching this from the wrong direction.
> 
> Most applications store profiles etc. outside of the main executable file.  If your fresh install works fine then leave it alone.
> 
> What I have done is to set up a single chart with my preferred indicators, colour scheme etc. and saved it as a template.  If I want to look at a new currency pair, I open a new chart then load my template.
> 
> Sometimes you need to start over to get it right.... it's a pain but computers are like that.
> 
> If you still have access to your other templates then setting up the charts again shouldnt take too long at all.




Hi,
Thanks for your reply.  I have solved the issue.  It turned out that I had a dodgy indicator and since I replaced it I have not had any problems.


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## John Walker

*Forex Trading with GoMarkets*

Hello,
I live in England and have been trading the GBP/USD currency pair with Gomarkets for the past few months I now want to use a mobile phone to trade using GoTader Mobile4 software. I understood  that the software should work on any  mobile phone running Windows Mobile software version 2003 and above.
I have now tried to download and install the software on a Samsung Omnia Pro B7330 (Windows Mobile 6.5) and a HTC S701 (Windows Mobile 6.1) and although the software installs ok  they both have glitches when trying to place trades. I was wondering if anybody is actually using GoTrader Mobile4 to trade on a mobile phone and if so can they confirm what the phone model is and what version of Windows Mobile software that the phone uses.
Many Thanks.

John


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## >Apocalypto<

fellow gomarketters......

I saw on the Gomarkets site that they are going to offer a free Iphone app. anyone know anything more about this?

cheers,


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