# Eminis



## mikoolwong (28 March 2008)

Hi all.

first up-apologies if there is a similar previous thread, if there is, please link it.

I have always had a fascination with the sharemarket, but havn't done anything. I just recently went to a **************** info night and got quite interested in eminis.

So, I thought I would gather all the experienced users thoughts on eminis. I am a total beginner, about to turn 20 and have around 5k that i want to play with (**************** 7k membership seems a little steep-but I like the idea of the mentoring etc the claim to offer)

any suggestions whether to actually trade eminis? or to trade xxx as beginner? 
any suggested products/services/programs/webinars to help the quest? and any advice on what not to get into/buy

note: I'm not asking for spam, or asking for lists i can find on google, i'm looking for suggestions from real people with experience with their suggestions that they have tried.

Thanks in advance to all for participating.


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## Timmy (28 March 2008)

mik, that is a very broad and vague sort of query ... not that there is anything wrong with that given you are just beginning ... but you are probably inviting some experienced emini traders who are interested enough to spend a month typing stuff out ... not that there's anything wrong with that either but you may have to wait until one sees your questions.

To get started have you done a quick search here on the ASF site?  Sticking emini into the search brings up 18 threads ... which is a manageable amount.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1111406

Whether to trade eminis or start with something else?  I don't know you, too many variables to advise really.  You will be up against it though starting with eminis, but you need to find out more about them, and more about other alternatives. 

Don't dismiss a Google search ... there are no shortcuts, or no worthwhile ones anyway.  Time spent just reading and absorbing will be well spent.  you are 20...plenty of time.

Sorry to put it back on to you ... but if you wait someone will be along to tell you something different ... its all good!


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## mikoolwong (30 March 2008)

thanks timmy.

I've been reading up on it all since I've posted and as i was posting. But the major problem I find is I don't understand half the stuff I read. Which in many ways is a good thing becuase I've learnt so much already to understand more things now!

I realised it wasn't such a good topic and hesitated posting. But I thought if the general consensus of experienced traders is not to start with emini then I'd listen to the experts advice..if you know what I mean.

Basically I personally feel that eminis would be good...

Some general ideas i've got so far, please correct if they're wrong, the index trading is not really affected by "gossiping trends" on the stock market, so if there was a major crash for one stock, this wouldnt really affect me trading an index, because its not one stock. that for emini you can make money if price goes up and down, you get the money from the difference at which you buy the emini compared to selling it. (but I still don't get exactly how you make money when the emini price goes down)

Perhaps more on a personal note I can ask you all how you first started trading too. In which market and how did you get to your first trades ie: learning through books or seminar or google...

Thanks again for input


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## Timmy (31 March 2008)

It is probably easiest to start with trying to understand the futures market for agricultural products, I think its easier to understand the market when you can relate it to a physical product.  Try a local library for books about an introduction to the futures market.  Don't worry about the sections of the book that will outline trading methods and strategies for speculators, most of this information will be irrelevant and unreliable, just look for a good introduction to the market itself and how it works.

If the local library doesn't have much, try a bigger library or even wander into a university library.

There are some online resources that will provide a brief introduction, such as:

http://trmep.tamu.edu/cg/factsheets/rm2-1.pdf

http://www.investopedia.com/university/futures/

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/tafm/

Once you have a grasp of how a futures contract and a futures market work then move on to understanding financial futures, such as interest rate products and equity index products (the ASX/SFE website can help here).  

What market to start your trading in?  Maybe others will have stronger views on this.  I suppose generally the progression is to start with shares then move on to faster-moving, leveraged products (like FX, futures).  That is probably a sensible progression but the key is to understand each of the markets, what they are, how they work, what your risks are (this is critical).  In FX, especially, there are many 'simulator' platforms, where you trade real prices but with pretend money, on a real dealing screen (except the trades are not executed in reality).  This is not a perfect method, there are constraints, but its not bad.  The demos are free.  Have an experiment with these during some busy time periods in the FX markets and you will get a feel for the speed of movement of the FX market, and also some idea of the emini futures market.  This experimenting doesn't have to take too long, although budget to spend a reasonable amount of time (maybe at least 3 - 4 weeks) to get an intitial good feel for a leveraged market and how it moves at different times and in different circumstances.

Also, beware of vendors selling specific products for specific markets.  Like the product you have seen to trade emini equity indices.  You will only receive information from vendors favourable to their product, thats their job.  It is going to be up to you to dig a little deeper and critically assess what they are saying.  The example you use of an index being immune from single share issues ... yeah largely true, not wholly true, and is the sort of thing a vendor of index-trading programs will tell you.  What they wont expand on is the plenty of other risks to consider.  Remember, someone selling a product to trade an equity index is going to tell you things that are favourable to their program.  Sorry to sound like a cynic, but an understanding of sales and sales techniques can save you a lot of time and money in your own journey.

Me personally, I started with books that explained the workings of the markets, their function, the mechanics.  It sounds a bit boring, but it doesn't take long (you should get a good grasp on the subject from a good book in only a few hours) and it equips you to understand ANY market in the future.  An active interest in economics I have always found useful.

Have a look at this forum, too, at some of the active posters on short-term trading activities and techniques.
Trembling Hand is an active intra-day futures trader.
Tayser is an active scalper in the FX markets.
Tech/a is active in speculative shares.
3 different markets & different techniques, might be instructive.

Hope this helps.


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## chops_a_must (31 March 2008)

mikoolwong said:


> So, I thought I would gather all the experienced users thoughts on eminis. I am a total beginner, about to turn 20 and have around 5k that i want to play with (**************** 7k membership seems a little steep-but I like the idea of the mentoring etc the claim to offer)



Bludy hell!

So they tried selling you the system knowing you only have 5k, and have never traded shares let alone futures!!? That's criminal.

Firstly, don't trade any futures if you only have 5k.

Secondly, don't trade futures if you've never traded shares. You will get killed.

Thirdly, don't do it.

If you must do it, trade the index etf instead. You wont be smashed like you would with the e-mini, and you can look at what is happening with your expectancy and your account. But you probably don't even have enough to do that!

But with 5k you will most likely lose the most of your capital, on a normal string of losses, and you wont trade no more.

If you don't understand shorting, there is absolutely no way you should be considering this. Read a couple of books, dabble a bit in shares, and if you happen to know what you are doing, come back.


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## Trembling Hand (31 March 2008)

How evil is that word "eminis"?

The difference between its real name Futures which already suggest something a little confusing and the task you have trading(ie pick future price movements)

Compared to eminis which is like some friendly fairy tale word that relaxes the punters so you can avoid the details and feed them the sales pitch as their mind is now charm and malleable.

EVIL!! ABSOLUTLY EVIL (oh sorry the other word for it is marketing)


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## MRC & Co (31 March 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> If you must do it, trade the index etf instead.




Chops, do you know any index etf's for Australian indices?  

If not, what are the codes for the US index etf's?


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## gfresh (31 March 2008)

http://www.asx.com.au/investor/lmi/types/classical_etfs.htm


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## MRC & Co (31 March 2008)

gfresh said:


> http://www.asx.com.au/investor/lmi/types/classical_etfs.htm




Great, thanks.  Should have looked on ASX myself.


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

*Use of the term "E-minis".*

This post is an answer to questions that TremblingHand had about the term "E-minis" in the **************** thread, which has now been closed.

_Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockhoundnz  
What's wrong with "eminis"? It's more specific than "futures" and the name is used commonly amongst traders including the floor traders. _

*Quote:
Originally Posted by TremblingHand
No its not. Tell me whats the difference between Futures contracts and your "eminis"??

What floor traders?? the only futures exchange that still has trading pits is NYBOT & a couple on the CME. I don't see what you mean about "floor traders" what have they to do with anything? They account for a tiny portion of futures contracts. And are mostly covering Agriculture.*


"E-minis" is the common and sometimes official term used to describe the electronically-traded mini-sized futures contracts available for trading against the S&P 500 Index, Dow Jones Index, several other indexes and some currencies through either the CBOT (Chicago Board of Trade; the Dow eminis) or the CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange; S&P500 eminis). The term is basically an abbreviated version of the official terms which, in the case of the Dow, is the "mini-sized Dow ($5) futures contracts", although the CME use the term officially (e.g. the CME E-mini S&P 500). 

As mentioned, these contracts are traded completely electronically - there is no "pit" with people yelling at each other to buy and sell. However, there IS a pit for the S&P full size futures contracts (and also for some other futures), and traders pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a seat in the pit as there are distinct advantages in being in the pit which include saving massively on commissions (like paying about 15% of the normal commissions) and being able to front-run large buyers. The floor traders either represent large firms or institutional buyers like Merrill Lynch (these traders are often known as "paper" and probably account for most of the full-size futures contracts being bought or sold), or representing themselves (these traders are often known as "locals" and they can buy and sell from/to paper, each other, or electronically as they please). The floor traders will sometimes choose to buy or sell Eminis instead of the full-size contracts, and refer to them as "E-minis" to distinguish from the full-size contracts they normally trade. The pit audio commentator (he sounds like a commentator at a very fast auction) will also refer to this by calling something like "locals buy Eminis".

So, the term is used to clearly separate the full-sized futures contracts (what you might call "the domain of the big boys") from the mini-sized contracts (what you might call "the domain of newbies and smaller players"). 

I hope this helps to explain the use of the term.


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## Trembling Hand (1 April 2008)

*Re: Use of the term "E-minis".*



Rockhoundnz said:


> So, the term is used to clearly separate the full-sized futures contracts (what you might call "the domain of the big boys") from the mini-sized contracts (what you might call "the domain of newbies and smaller players").




Completely disagree. The ES (S&P 500 mini contract) Is controlled by algorithm trading. To call the most liquid high volume futures contract a smaller players contract is very wrong. The pit contracts are dying a slow death and it seems your info is about 10 years old.


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## Timmy (1 April 2008)

Rock, check out the relative volumes on the pit-traded S&P500 versus the ES.  Typical volumes (and these are top-of-the-head figures only) of the full-size S&P 500 are around 30,000 contracts traded in the pit per session (yes more for the few days around the quarterly roll period).  Compare this to the approximately 1.3 million contracts traded during RTH for the ES.

Even allowing for the full-size contract being 5 times the ES in size, the ES still trades 4 to 5 times the $ amount of the full-size contract.  In all respects the ES is now the domain of the big boys too...  Viewing the ES as the domain of newbies and smaller players, like TH says, is about 10 years out of date.


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## nighteyes (1 April 2008)

Mik

Check out **************** (eminis). He was one that looked interesting.

When i did my reseach, I only found 3 that I chose to look into


****************
****************
****************

Rockhoundnz went for ****************and I am most interested to follow his progress.

I went with ****************purely because they had a presence in Australia 

I dont know of anyone who went **************** but they would have been my preference (I'd already signed up by then)

The more senior posters have it spot on, it is futures and is not for the real noobs so be careful.

My progress so far with **************** is encouraging but I am not live yet, and most definitely dont believe in all the promises. 

My take is, whatever you do, dont go it alone, use something that has track record. WayneL, one of the more senior posters, mentioned some free IRC trader's room that might be worth checking out.

What ever you do,  DON'T put real money in until you are ready to take the risk.

Good Luck


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

Timmy said:


> Rock, check out the relative volumes on the pit-traded S&P500 versus the ES.  Typical volumes (and these are top-of-the-head figures only) of the full-size S&P 500 are around 30,000 contracts traded in the pit per session (yes more for the few days around the quarterly roll period).  Compare this to the approximately 1.3 million contracts traded during RTH for the ES.
> 
> Even allowing for the full-size contract being 5 times the ES in size, the ES still trades 4 to 5 times the $ amount of the full-size contract.  In all respects the ES is now the domain of the big boys too...  Viewing the ES as the domain of newbies and smaller players, like TH says, is about 10 years out of date.




Fair enough, I really did write that bit without thinking. Let me rephrase my statement: The full size S&P is the domain of the big boys alone, and E-minis are the domain of the big boys, small players and newbies. That would be more accurate wouldn't it?


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## Timmy (1 April 2008)

... And sleepy Aussies and Kiwis like us


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## nighteyes (1 April 2008)

Timmy said:


> Rock, check out the relative volumes on the pit-traded S&P500 versus the ES.  Typical volumes (and these are top-of-the-head figures only) of the full-size S&P 500 are around 30,000 contracts traded in the pit per session (yes more for the few days ........ date.




Timmy and TH

I hear what you guys are saying, eminis has taken over where futures left or is leaving off, but surely Rock does have a point, you do need a way of differentiating the two.

Sure eminis may not portray the same connotations as futures today but over time this will change.

Guess they could have called it futures 2 or something similar.


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

*Re: Use of the term "E-minis".*



Trembling Hand said:


> Completely disagree. The ES (S&P 500 mini contract) Is controlled by algorithm trading. To call the most liquid high volume futures contract a smaller players contract is very wrong. The pit contracts are dying a slow death and it seems your info is about 10 years old.




Agreed - see my reply to Timmy. Do you agree with the use of the term Emini though? - which was, afterall, the point of the post.


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## nighteyes (1 April 2008)

*Re: Use of the term "E-minis".*



Rockhoundnz said:


> Agreed - see my reply to Timmy. Do you agree with the use of the term Emini though? - which was, afterall, the point of the post.




I quite lilke eminis but I can see where TH is coming from, kinda  like the cigarette guys coming up with a new product called chocotine .. or the @#$^ on foxtel at the moment offering poker training and equating it to scoring soccer goals


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

*Re: Use of the term "E-minis".*



nighteyes said:


> I quite lilke eminis but I can see where TH is coming from, kinda  like the cigarette guys coming up with a new product called chocotine .. or the @#$^ on foxtel at the moment offering poker training and equating it to scoring soccer goals




mmmm.... chocotine... where can I get that?? Hehe...

Yeah, it's a fair point, but they do need some way to describe the size difference between the small contracts and the big ones. How about Futurettes?


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## nighteyes (1 April 2008)

*Re: Use of the term "E-minis".*



Rockhoundnz said:


> mmmm.... chocotine... where can I get that?? Hehe...
> 
> Yeah, it's a fair point, but they do need some way to describe the size difference between the small contracts and the big ones. How about Futurettes?



c
LMAO. Thats cute, kinda gives the American Cheerleader feel to it.

If you get an unexpecteed phone call, its most likely the CME Marketing department?

btw are you live with your lot yet? Mine went well for me until they introduced new indicators. Lucky I am not live yet.


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## Trembling Hand (1 April 2008)

No I still have to disagree. What is the fundamental difference between eminis and futures??? Nothing they are EXACTLY the same. They are traded on the same system, same exchanges, same mechanics.....they ARE futures. Its a marketing term. Thats all. They are traded by professional traders who do 90% of the volume.


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> No I still have to disagree. What is the fundamental difference between eminis and futures??? Nothing they are EXACTLY the same. They are traded on the same system, same exchanges, same mechanics.....they ARE futures. Its a marketing term. Thats all. They are traded by professional traders who do 90% of the volume.




Yes, you are absolutely right, Eminis ARE futures, but the word emini provides you with more information - it tells you that the contracts are the small ones not the large ones (it's taken as given that they ARE futures) - don't you think that's in some way useful? It's like you're suggesting we say that all squares are rectangles - a truth, but also a loss of information.


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## nighteyes (1 April 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> No I still have to disagree. What is the fundamental difference between eminis and futures??? Nothing they are EXACTLY the same. They are traded on the same system, same exchanges, same mechanics.....they ARE futures. Its a marketing term. Thats all. They are traded by professional traders who do 90% of the volume.




TH
I agree with you that they are futures, nothing more - nothing less, but they are not twins, and the old futures is still around, so if you don't give them a different name/handle how do we know which one we are referring too.


ps
Thanks so much for your advise re the transaction journal. The dynamics of trading with a journal that you are accountable for is completely different ... it is much harder when the risks become real


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

nighteyes said:


> TH
> I agree with you that they are futures, nothing more - nothing less, but they are not twins, and the old futures is still around, so if you don't give them a different name/handle how do we know which one we are referring too.




Exactly - on the YM for instance, I want to know if the local S&P floor traders are buying or selling ES Eminis because that can and will precede a move in price on the YM - it's not all algorithm driven, the floor traders do influence the market. Having the pit commentator call "the locals are buying eminis" is absolutely invaluable.


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## Trembling Hand (1 April 2008)

Yes I will concede that they are telling you they are the smaller of the two contracts. But thats hardly necessary. All Futures are wildly different in value per tick.

But my real problem with "emini" is that the term is used as if they are some sort of "user friendly" trading instrument. They are just as deadly and have just as many pro's taking the $$ off the punters as any other game.


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## nighteyes (1 April 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yes I will concede that they are telling you they are the smaller of the two contracts. But thats hardly necessary. All Futures are wildly different in value per tick.
> 
> But my real problem with "emini" is that the term is used as if they are some sort of "user friendly" trading instrument. They are just as deadly and have just as many pro's taking the $$ off the punters as any other game.




Couldn't agree more with you ... henceforth Futurettes then ... just kidding


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## Rockhoundnz (1 April 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yes I will concede that they are telling you they are the smaller of the two contracts. But thats hardly necessary. All Futures are wildly different in value per tick.
> 
> But my real problem with "emini" is that the term is used as if they are some sort of "user friendly" trading instrument. They are just as deadly and have just as many pro's taking the $$ off the punters as any other game.




Agreed - there are a lot of so called "educators" out there that tout Eminis as if you were going to be buying and selling bread or milk. They're only user-friendly to those new to the market because they are affordable compared to the big contracts. The earlier analogy to cigarettes should hold true - they should have warnings on them - photos of poor people or something... or at least the words "trading eminis without supervision can empty your account".


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## Trembling Hand (1 April 2008)

Yeah. trading eminis can result in this


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## peter2 (1 April 2008)

I think that this guy (pictured above) posts on many forums. 

The least Joe could do is give him an ASF mug.


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## professor_frink (1 April 2008)

peter2 said:


> I think that this guy (pictured above) posts on many forums.
> 
> The least Joe could do is give him an ASF mug.




What are you talking about, that *IS* Joe! He would be holding an ASF mug, but he let me trade them in at the local strip club for a lap dance or 3. He let me trade in the precious ASF mugs because I was quite depressed after I had spent all of my money on "professional trading advice" to try and  learn how to trade the emini's. It was only after I had spent all of my money on chat room fees that I realised that nobody with a scalable edge in the futures market would be silly enough to give it away to any punter with a few thousand in the bank.


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## reef750 (18 May 2008)

*Trading E-MINIS*

Hi Everyone, 
Im all a bit new to this world of investing. 
But i have come across a company that helps you trade e-minis. They claim some big returns. And i was wondering if anyone has had any dealings that take you by the hand and lead you through the process ? 
And how you found it to work for yourself ?


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## cirion (5 June 2008)

*Re: Trading E-MINIS*



reef750 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> Im all a bit new to this world of investing.
> But i have come across a company that helps you trade e-minis. They claim some big returns. And i was wondering if anyone has had any dealings that take you by the hand and lead you through the process ?
> And how you found it to work for yourself ?




what is the company?


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## Rockhoundnz (7 June 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Bludy hell!
> 
> So they tried selling you the system knowing you only have 5k, and have never traded shares let alone futures!!? That's criminal.
> 
> ...





I've been thinking about this, and I might get some flack for this, but I think this is actually poor advice - or more to the point, advice that lacks context. 

Here is my two cents worth: Just like a law degree, or a medical degree or a dentistry degree learning to be a futures trader comes with cost and just like those subjects it takes years to become competent. You would be arrogant to assume that as a newbie you can make money trading against pros from the start. Would you expect to win a murder trial in your first week in law school?? In fact, in learning to trade futures you are actually very lucky because you do have the chance to actually make some money - show me a law school that pays you to study! You're also very lucky that it is probably the only activity in the world that allows complete newbies to go up against seasoned pros. You don't need to know anything about the sharemarket at all to say "I want to be a futures trader" and actually start learning to be one.

Having said all that (And here's where the context comes in... and also where I agree with chops_a_must), you will almost certainly lose money at the start. If you want to learn to trade futures then you MUST accept that it will cost you significant time and money to do so. It is fine to take 5K and trade futures as long as you accept that you will almost certainly lose it as part of your education process. There is no other way to really learn than to start trading (preferably with a mentor). If all you have in the world is 5K and if you lose it you won't come back to trade again, then DO NOT get into trading. But if you are willing to accept that you will almost certainly lose at the start as part of your learning process then go ahead and learn. It is much better to only have 5K to lose at the start than go in with 50K and think you will not lose some or all of it - more money WILL NOT make you a better trader. 5K isn't much to front up with to start your learning process in a career that could put you in the top 1% of income earners is it? And if your answer is "yes, it is a lot of money" - then don't trade, and go and get a nice secure 9-to-5 job instead.

If you want to hear similar words from a seasoned trader then watch this video from my mentor: ****************
Feel free to drop me an email if you have any questions about what it's like to learn trading through a mentor.


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## ruht03 (7 June 2008)

Hi,

I am quite new to trading.  I have been trading shares for less than a year and recently start trading CFD for less than 6 months but recently find emini quite interesting.  I went to the seminar for trading emini with **************** recently but dont think $7K worth the investment to teach me trading emini. 

I find that no one can teach you trading.  Its all got to do with experience and that take times and by paying $7K wont do the job.  To get the experience you have to actually trade the market and get the feels with emini and read stuffs you found on internet, books/ebooks etc.  

I found an emini broker, sign up for a demo account to paper trading and experimenting my emini trade with this simulator account.  I found emini most fascinating even with basic knowledge on emini I can make money based on Moving Average indicator.  With 1 or 2 hours a night I can make *AT LEAST *$100 on my demo account consistantly which I am quite happy with.  The index market is so easy to make money as its so volitiles and so liquility.  With one tick on S&P500 I get $12.50 I think and to get one point I can satisfied with that being a beginger for the last few weeks.  I just get in and get out the trade with 1 or 2 points to cash the profit and analysis the trend again based on Moving Averages and jump in again with another trade.

I feel that I can make more profit if I sign up with a live signal calls from a trading room for US$295 a month.  I am in the process of joing either **************** trading room to get a more profitable trading signals on the index to trade emini.

I personally recomment this emini broker **************** where they have live online help during business hours, free demo account to paper trade, low commission for trading emini, free trading plateform with live data if you choose EZ TRADER but with other plateform there's a monthly fee.

I hope my details help you with your trading emini.  $7K for the course is not worth it and I would rather use that amount to start an account with a broker trade emini on my own efford.

Cheers.

Richard


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## Trembling Hand (7 June 2008)

ruht03 said:


> The index market is so easy to make money




Well Richard that just about sums up your post. A load of BS.


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## ruht03 (7 June 2008)

Trembling Hand I think you are just an arogent individual here on the forum thinking you know everything and on any subjects matter.  So whats your view regarding my posting that you think its BS.  Just take it or leave it but everything I stated in my posting is my own trading experience with emini without spending $7K on enrolling to the course. Do I need to proof everything especially to you? Is it too difficult for you to grasp or is it too easy for you to grasp?  I am only helping the beginner to see how I start my trading with emini and I am not helping you since you seem to be the experienced leader in this trading forum.  Everything people posted here you have your nose on the subject and opposed them or having your own remarks or opinions against them.  Dont  know the psychology here i am sorry.

Cheers

Richard


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## Trembling Hand (7 June 2008)

OK I will give you a plainer and simpler explanation if you can answer these two questions for me.

What is the period of MA and charts you are using and what is your Average Win to Loss ratio.

And I will  try and explain why your results are random or BS.


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## ruht03 (7 June 2008)

Trembling Hand my results are just more likely random based on the last few weeks I am trading on my demo account.  I dont claimed that i made $500 to $1000 a night but very small profit based on only basic knowledges I have with emini trading.  I only trade for the last few weeks and I can stated that again I have at least made $100 a night consistantly and some day even more $.  I dont know the out come for the next few months or years be like with just using Moving Average indicator.  Thats why I mention that I am in the process to subscribed to a live signal calls trading room to have a better chance of winning the market in the long run.

MA= 14 & 5mins chart is all I use. In & out of the market between 1 & 2 points and before I jump in again based only my MA indicator. I dont know my win and lose ratio but it's a lot more wins than lost obviously.  I dont count how many wins or losts I have but more concentrate on the money I have profit.  PLEASE AWARE THAT THIS IS ONLY DEMO/PAPER TRADING ACCOUNT NOT REAL MONEY I AM DEALING WITH.  I dont know if I can get a constant amount of at least $100 a night in months times as I only traded for the last few weeks and thats the positive results I have.  Dont say that my posting is BS as I am only helping beginners to see how I start my trading with emini without a $7K course.  I see experimenting on trading is more important and with the help of a live signal calls will get you success trading instead of spent $7K on a course.  I hope you see my points and not BS as I get nothing out of my posting.

Cheers

Richard


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## Trembling Hand (7 June 2008)

ruht03 said:


> MA= 14 & 5mins chart is all I use. In & out of the market between 1 & 2 points and before I jump in again based only my MA indicator.




Here is your problem. If you look at the average range per 5 min bar(ES) which I just did for the 13/05/2008 its  2.20 points in the first 2 hours. Your target is less than the average range per period. how can you have any type of positive R:R when your target is less than the average 1 Bar range. And you are using a lagging 14 bar indicator.

If like most real traders your average win loss ratio is closer to 50/50 then you would be throwing away the claim that "The index market is so easy to make money" when your profit target is less than any sensible stop.


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## pipal (8 June 2008)

Hey I've been trading and learning hard for a few years by now.  I don't trade Eminis and don't have much idea about it.  But I do know trading is a very tough game.  There are just too many possibilities for you to screw up a trade and result in losses but profits.

If someone who trades based on only basic knowledges, using just MA indicator, and with help of live signal calls can make money consistently, I just don't know if there are so many market players more amateur than that and lose you the money?

Learning hard and trading on one's own is the way (if not the only one) to succeed.


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## Rockhoundnz (9 June 2008)

ruht03 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I find that no one can teach you trading.  Its all got to do with experience and that take times and by paying $7K wont do the job.  To get the experience you have to actually trade the market and get the feels with emini and read stuffs you found on internet, books/ebooks etc.




You are wrong, ruht03. The vast majority of the best traders in the world were taught by other experienced traders. Just because you went to one seminar and didn't like it doesn't mean that there aren't good traders out there that can teach you how to trade. You just have to look harder. Here's a tip - avoid the websites that have glitzy advertising and outrageous claims, like "Would you like to learn how YOU could have the OPPORTUNITY to earn $500 - $1000USD or even more... per day/night?". Look for the ones that focus on teaching you to trade, not on how much money you will make. Do golf pros advertise with words like "Would you like to learn how YOU could have the OPPORTUNITY to win the Australian Open or even the US Masters?"... I think not.


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## nighteyes (11 June 2008)

Rockhoundnz said:


> You are wrong, ruht03. The vast majority of the best traders in the world were taught by other experienced traders. Just because you went to one seminar and didn't like it doesn't mean that there aren't good traders out there that can teach you how to trade ...




Definitely agree with you Rock. It is so important to look for a good experienced moderator whose underlying interest is more to help develop your trading skills then to make money off selling their system.


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## mazzatelli1000 (17 August 2008)

For those trading the **************** Methodology ---- this is my interpretation:

It uses: Pivot Points
           MACD
           Stochastic

The Stochastic in this case is not put in a lower pane, but overlaying the price action. Basically **************** teach that if it moves in sync with the MACD, then it helps "confirm" the divergence from Price. Basically 2 indicators that move in sync with each other makes that signal all the "stronger".

NB: you can learn this concept (MACD Divergence) for free from many websites and also from Elder Alexanders book for a measly $100.

Also by only taking these signals when they bounce of Pivot points helps enhance the chances of the signal being "correct".

Again --- plenty of great info of the web and posts in ASF here for FREE about pivot points.

My point???
The $7k charged for learning that is overpriced and the talk about working only a few hours a day to make 5-10% of margin is BS. 

For those who have invested money in it and are emotionally attached, I am not having a go at you. 

Cheers


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## Offshore (5 January 2009)

HI everyone If this is the wrong place to post this let me know.

I am looking for info on E-Minis I have just watched a DVD from 
eminisglobal.com and they refer to brokers fees of $2.50 per trade but every broker I have found is more like $6.00 to $7.00 even more.
Anyone have more info on this
It would be much appreciated


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## mazzatelli1000 (5 January 2009)

*Re: Emini's*



Offshore said:


> HI everyone If this is the wrong place to post this let me know.
> 
> I am looking for info on E-Minis I have just watched a DVD from
> eminisglobal.com and they refer to brokers fees of $2.50 per trade but every broker I have found is more like $6.00 to $7.00 even more.
> ...




Your referring to Traders International folk
$2.50 per trade - but when trading futures you will need to complete two transactions - so enter and exit commissions - so the $5 mark sounds about right

Also beware of them quoting returns on margin - a bit misleading
enjoy


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## Offshore (5 January 2009)

*Re: Emini's*



mazzatelli1000 said:


> Your referring to Traders International folk
> $2.50 per trade - but when trading futures you will need to complete two transactions - so enter and exit commissions - so the $5 mark sounds about right
> 
> Also beware of them quoting returns on margin - a bit misleading
> enjoy




Yep that's the dudes they sound a bit dodgey 7K for a course.
So you are saying the otyher brokers are $7.00 all up not in and out?


but I have been trading FX and would like to go back to indices as I think this year will have some good trades coming up.
I used to use CMC's marketmaker but found the software slow and you couldn't triple trade 
ie enter, stop and take profit like you can on MT4 platforms.


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## mr.x (11 January 2009)

*Re: Emini's*

I looked at traders international in great depth.I made a spreadsheet of their live trading results over the last three years and it looked too good to be true and it is.It is all hypothetical trading. the master trader is not placing the trades.Traders international does not hold a financial licence.I managed to track down the guy who holds the financial licence they use .he told me what i have stated above.I have also read postings on a few forums of people who use this service and they say thatafter paying about 7 k the time they give you before charging for the live trading room not long enough.e- mini global is an affiliate of traders international. hope this helps you out.


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## Offshore (11 January 2009)

*Re: Emini's*



mr.x said:


> I looked at traders international in great depth.I made a spreadsheet of their live trading results over the last three years and it looked too good to be true and it is.It is all hypothetical trading. the master trader is not placing the trades.Traders international does not hold a financial licence.I managed to track down the guy who holds the financial licence they use .he told me what i have stated above.I have also read postings on a few forums of people who use this service and they say thatafter paying about 7 k the time they give you before charging for the live trading room not long enough.e- mini global is an affiliate of traders international. hope this helps you out.




Thanks for that Yeah I run a Mile if anyone asks me for 7K up front.
ha


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## chris2009 (20 March 2009)

Hi All, I have a question i haven been able to clarify if anyone can help.

What happens to your future contract if it is left open and the trading day closes at 15:15 Chicago time, does the position automatically close or will it remain open for after hours trading?

Also the same thing but this time the contract month is finishing does that mean you have to get rig of any contracts you have for that period?

Where is a limited order stored? example; I use Ninja Trader, so i place a limited order with a stop loss and it gets filled. So now if i leave Ninja Trader on and the stop loss is hit the position exits. But what happens if Ninja Trader crashed and the stop loss is hit while the program is offline does the stop loss only work while Ninja Trader is online or is the full order stored on the broker or exchange server and gets executed regardless weather Ninja is online or not?

Thanks for your help


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## lindsayf (21 March 2009)

*Re: Use of the term "E-minis".*



Trembling Hand said:


> Completely disagree. The ES (S&P 500 mini contract) Is controlled by algorithm trading. To call the most liquid high volume futures contract a smaller players contract is very wrong. The pit contracts are dying a slow death and it seems your info is about 10 years old.




so  TH are you saying that  the trading in the ES is more alogrithm based than other instuments..and does this mean it is any different or more difficult for the  retail trader to trade than any other futures index?

Lindsay


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## Green2 (24 March 2009)

Nighteyes, how is your experiance with the emini Co that must not be named,
Do you have any regrets or are the sceptics wrong.

I would be very interested to know I am allso interested in the eminis and would like all the info I can get.

  Regards green2


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## chris2009 (25 March 2009)

Green2 check out this thread;
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317&page=2


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## ivant (5 April 2009)

chris2009 said:


> Hi All, I have a question i haven been able to clarify if anyone can help.
> 
> What happens to your future contract if it is left open and the trading day closes at 15:15 Chicago time, does the position automatically close or will it remain open for after hours trading?
> 
> ...




Ok, your futures contract will close out only when it expires, if you haven't closed it out yourself. It depends which contract you are trading. They all have different dates they close out. I.e May Delivery Coffee Robusta closes out on the 30th of April for dealing. Which leads us to your second question. This all depends on your Broker. If your broker allows delivery, then if you dont close out the trade, you will get delivered what you bought. You need to buy out the remainder of the contract obviously. If you are using a CFD provider, or most smaller futures brokers, you will just get the contract rolled over, which also means a new contract, ie different code and different date for delivery. 

The last question is more about how data works. Data is stored on a server. The server will be either the platform provider (ie your broker) or it will be the platform creator. Once again, something to address to the broker. To cut the story short, the client (your end of the program) is what sends the data to the server (the brokers end). If your end crashes, theirs is unaffected. For more detail, i suggest wikipedia. But in short, your limit order will get executed.


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## ivant (5 April 2009)

On a side topic, WHAT IS OUR PROBLEM (as humans) WITH WANTING EVERYTHING FOR NO EFFORT.

If you want returns without trading, go with a managed fund. You face the risk of it being a ponzi scheme. Eg Madoff. 

If you want to trade, read a load of books, talk to people, create methodologies or systems and backtest them, and prepare a load of money to lose on failing.

You can do anything in this world, and you can start trading with 5k. Just expect to lose it all. Probably a little extreme to start in futures, but it can work. I think any futures trader who can live off it will tell you that they started in shares or to advise starting in shares. Futures are levereged. You can lose 20k if you cant take a loss, and its pretty damn hard taking a loss early on. 

To cut that short, seminars are for added education, and you need to look for people that are trusted and good sources of information. Usually good for them to be traders too. If they are not traders, its all bollocks. 

On the topic of seminars, I was invited to a seminar a few years back ran by CMC markets, which was a load of fun. I swear the guy who ran it never executed a successful trade in his life. He sure rammed in using stop losses though (so that CMC's spikes take out all those people in the room in one decent move).


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