# Trading Claims



## tech/a (16 April 2009)

*T/H posted *this in the Gann thread in reply to a poster.



> Well in my eye you might as well not bothered with this drivel.
> 
> Would of been ten thousand times more effective to just post your broker statements showing real evidence of your claimed success. But I'm sure you have many a reason why we will not see them.




I support T/H's view not only with regard to this claim but many other claims made by posters.

Many who make trading claims here I'm sure don't even trade.
Public web sites are full of rubbish as well as full of outrageous claims.
So how do you sort them out?

I believe you should be able to question these claims and if someone is using a real time example and claiming a particular result whether that be a singular event or a long term method.

If they are talking $$s then prove it *if asked*. Otherwise the claim is nothing BUT hot air and personal back slapping.

This should not be seen as egotistical but as credibility.

Those who are looking for real people with real claims must be able to ask for this and those who can supply it will have no problem in doing so. Those working on theory/hindsite or hypothesis wont. This is where the majority here and most public sites reside.

Opinion is fine but when your CLAIMING result then people have every right to question it.  

Would certainly sort the wood from the chaff.

I think *where people are making monetary claims *with regard to results then they should be substantiated.Other wise they are just hot air.


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## alwaysLearning (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

well, it's also pretty easy to post the broker account figures and then blank out your account number and name.

Then you still have proof. I'm sure some people don't want their name known in some internet forum. But yeah there are ways to prove yourself without people knowing your identity.

The way to do this is to post trading calls in real time with a chart and explanation of why you took the trade. Then someone else can follow you in real time and see that you do know what you're doing.

There are many ways.

To answer your question directly, yes, if you make bold claims then you should be able to back it up if someone asks you.

edit: but then again, this is the internet and some people don't have the time or don't care to 'prove' themselves beyond what they say.


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## nunthewiser (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

Do we get $500 bucks for every broker statement ?


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## tech/a (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

Joe should get the $500 and if you want one from me ( A statement) Nun thats what it will cost *you.*
Most everyone else will get it for nothing.

Mind you If I cant produce it then I'll send Joe the $500---as you well know I will.

But not just limited to me--
That would be a nice way to sort out the tossers and support the site!


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## nunthewiser (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



tech/a said:


> Joe should get the $500 and if you want one from me ( A statement) Nun thats what it will cost *you.*
> Most everyone else will get it for nothing.
> 
> Mind you If I cant produce it then I'll send Joe the $500---as you well know I will.
> ...




personally not fussed if you wanna show me one or not actually 

just thought if ppl were gunna pay me $ 500 bucks to produce one , id be happy too 

mind you i havent claimed anything here except being awesome so i dare say will have to wait until im asked first 

but hey fair enough re thread and proof as seen a few claims of brilliance here and often think i wish i could be as great a hindsight trader also


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## nunthewiser (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

p.s . re my post in the XAO thread earlier . do i have to provide proof to anyone re my entrys at time ? or is it only AFTER the fact calls you are concerned about ?

or do i have to prove my breakeven trade on BSL earlier as posted in real time in chatroom ?


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## nunthewiser (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

sorry im just being silly now and this proving thingo doesnt actually concern me as more than capable of deciphering bullsheet from fact most of the time here 

sorry for filling thread with crud again 

as you were


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## James Austin (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



tech/a said:


> I think *where people are making monetary claims *with regard to results then they should be substantiated.Other wise they are just hot air.





its good *in theory* tech, 
so much hot air on most forums and very little of it has ever helped "my" trading; but that might just be me?!

but realistically, forums thrive on opinion and self aggrandizement, not all of it, just the better portion, take this away and you might be left on your own, . . . well, you and me anyway 

also, broker statements can be constructed to "authenticate" claims, so they dont prove anything

JA

 PS not sure why i posted here, too much sugar ladden tea!


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## MS+Tradesim (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

I lost $1000 last week. Anyone wanna pay me $500 to see the brokerage statements?


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## CanOz (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



James Austin said:


> its good *in theory* tech,
> so much hot air on most forums and very little of it has ever helped "my" trading; but that might just be me?!
> 
> but realistically, forums thrive on opinion and self aggrandizement, not all of it, just the better portion, take this away and you might be left on your own, . . . well, you and me anyway
> ...




I think there is a difference between a forum and a community, online. I like to think of this as a community. 

So, in a normal community when does anyone ever have to substantiate any claims about money? They rarely are put in that position. 

A community should concentrate on helping each other out, and if advice has value in it then so be it, if not then ignore it.

I don't make any claims about money, perhaps % loss or % gain once or twice when i felt someone will benefit from that. 

Why are we always trying to prove our credibility? Perhaps its an ego thing? You don't see too many women trying to do that do you? Women are notorious for not caring about ego as much, maybe we could learn from that.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## BBand (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

Don't know why anyone would even consider showing their broker statements!

If I respect someone for their knowledge / expertise - that I have found to be useful in the past - why would I ask for proof

Provided the methodology is shown - how cares about broker statements

No one should take as gospel any strategy that is posted here or anywhere else without checking it out for themselves to see if it works for them


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## CanOz (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



MS+Tradesim said:


> I lost $1000 last week. Anyone wanna pay me $500 to see the brokerage statements?




Hah, i lost 600+ last night in the US and made 600+ today in Oz, i'll settle for 500 too!

CanOz


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## nunthewiser (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

deleted my last post as figured i,d rather spend my $500 bucks on loose wimmin and a pizza

u got lucky canoz


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## beamstas (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

Broker statements are for pussies

This is what i have all from trading 

This is my ferrari






My lambo





My house





The missus





Brad


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## CanOz (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



nunthewiser said:


> deleted my last post as figured i,d rather spend my $500 bucks on loose wimmin and a pizza
> 
> u got lucky canoz




$500 can go a long way here on your favorite sins! (so they tell me)

LOL! I'll take luck any day, as long as i'm right 40% of the time!

Cheers Nun,

CanOz


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## nunthewiser (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

WOW , where do i sign up ?


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## MS+Tradesim (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

In your dreams that's your missus!!


The rest of it I've no problem with.


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## Julia (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*

Tech, whilst I appreciate what you're on about, I do think most of us have reasonably efficient bull**** detectors.  The hot air posters fairly quickly give themselves away, don't they?


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## skc (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



beamstas said:


> Broker statements are for pussies
> 
> This is what i have all from trading
> 
> ...




Brad, you will need to post your vehicle registration, the deed of the house and marriage certificate. If you can produce those I am willing to give you $500.

Hang on... Your missus looks like my last girlfriend. You may want to do a DNA test on your son.


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## dutchie (16 April 2009)

Substantiating peoples' trading claims  - who gives a sh*t


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## nomore4s (16 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



beamstas said:


> The missus
> 
> 
> 
> ...




lol, unless your last name is Pitt, I don't believe you:


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## alwaysLearning (17 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



nomore4s said:


> lol, unless your last name is Pitt, I don't believe you:




Pitt is sleeping with Jessica Alba, naah...Angelina wouldn't be too happy with that I don't think


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## nomore4s (17 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



alwaysLearning said:


> Pitt is sleeping with Jessica Alba, naah...Angelina wouldn't be too happy with that I don't think




Angelina might be joining in:


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## MS+Tradesim (17 April 2009)

This thread has gone from trading claims to outright fantasy.


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## beamstas (17 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



nomore4s said:


> Angelina might be joining in:




This thread is now relevant to my interests


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## It's Snake Pliskin (17 April 2009)

dutchie said:


> Substantiating peoples' trading claims  - who gives a sh*t



This is the most sensible post here.


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## tech/a (17 April 2009)

Julia said:


> Tech, whilst I appreciate what you're on about, I do think most of us have reasonably efficient bull**** detectors.  The hot air posters fairly quickly give themselves away, don't they?




Julia for those who have been around a while (no offence!),I agree,but the impressionable seem to be impressed to the point that they even fight for the claimant with no regard to authenticity.

I remember around 9 yrs ago going to this seminar invited by a friend for this B/Box software. Taking notes throughout it was clear all the signals were were Divergence (stochastic) and a simple M/A crossover with a Parabolic SAR thrown in. All this for $12,000.

I questioned at the end of the seminar all this and their results claiming "Up To" 40% / Mth. Wanting proof of course.---Well you should have heard the 200 strong crowd--- you'd swear I had just asked for his bank details.
They just didnt want to know. When we left there were at least 15 people waiting the "sign up"



dutchie said:


> Substantiating peoples' trading claims  - who gives a sh*t




Here are a small majority here who are really serious about LEARNING to trade. Like all of us were at one time they are very green.
Complexity impresses this seems to be a nuance with most things in life!
So to do some of the outrageous and at time fanciful theories which get bandied around.
Particularly when time and again the inference is made that ---- there's a killing to be made simply by doing "Plan b".

Now sure due diligence is needed but people are going to possibly buy a course or Spend countless hrs persuing a method or indeed rushing out and trading on some of this.

Why is it NOT reasonable to ask a poster who is making claims to the performance of a methodology that in actual fact he is using it and proving by way of statement that it really is his way of trading profitably?

If someone posts up stuff and admits its theory then no problem.
I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.


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## Julia (17 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> Why is it NOT reasonable to ask a poster who is making claims to the performance of a methodology that in actual fact he is using it and proving by way of statement that it really is his way of trading profitably?
> 
> If someone posts up stuff and admits its theory then no problem.
> I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.



Yes, I do see what you're getting at, and I hate ramping for a similar reason.
And yes, I do appreciate the vulnerability of inexperienced people.

But I think if we are constantly demanding proof of e.g. trades made, then we are altering the ethos of a forum which for the most part aims to be constructive, friendly and helpful.

Dunno.  I might be quite wrong.  Just don't like the feel of it somehow.


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## tommymac (17 April 2009)

I don't think people are not going to provide statements and we should not demand them either. However tech I do understand what you are saying and as I am learning myself am cautious of such.

What can be done is ask about their methodology, provide charts and reasoning behind their trade. I've found that there are enough educated people here to decipher the good from the bad.

On that note I thank all the people over the last two years who have stood up against the bad as it has helped me a lot.


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## tech/a (17 April 2009)

Well I find it rather strange that Trembling Hand who's post prompted my topic and a few others who at times certainly seem to have the same view havent commented.


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## Trembling Hand (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> Well I find it rather strange that Trembling Hand who's post prompted my topic and a few others who at times certainly seem to have the same view havent commented.




LOL I didn't actually see this thread til late yesterday. Too busy trading (sorry will post the statement later )


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## tech/a (18 April 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> LOL I didn't actually see this thread til late yesterday. Too busy trading (sorry will post the statement later )





Oh I'm sorry I hadent picked up the sarcasm in your original quote.




> Well in my eye you might as well not bothered with this drivel.
> 
> Would of been ten thousand times more effective to just post your broker statements showing real evidence of your claimed success. But I'm sure you have many a reason why we will not see them.


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## Trembling Hand (18 April 2009)

I found ASF after I was already trading full time but boy I wish I had found it earlier. There is stacks to be learnt on these pages from experienced and the inexperienced traders. That is of course why we are here, to learn and be part of a community. (and stroke our ego's from time to time). 

But there is a danger in some post being taken as more than what they are, hot air. The danger is that peoples lives are effected by financial decisions. Time is wasted following crazy ideas and are lead down dangerous paths. *One of the many bits of advice from traders here is to find a mentor but with that very bit of advice I think we are delivering the sheep to the wolves.*

As Tech has said 'Complexity impresses' and even harder to unravel without the poster actually showing something. Many a dodgy poster will layer complexity with more complexity as a way of covering up their rubbish. For many this crap stands out clearly but I know for some they fall for it.

I have had PMs and emails asking about my opinion of people and their techniques or why I am challenging someone. A lot of people have been surprised to hear of my suspicion that they don't even trade live. For newbies its not always easy to distinguish between a sensible application and just plan BS. Its far easier for a grumpy arrogant ar$e like myself to ask for proof than someone who is then going to ask for help and guidance.

But with that said I know we will really see anything.


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## nunthewiser (18 April 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> But there is a danger in some post being taken as more than what they are, hot air. The danger is that peoples lives are effected by financial decisions. Time is wasted following crazy ideas and are lead down dangerous paths. *One of the many bits of advice from traders here is to find a mentor but with that very bit of advice I think we are delivering the sheep to the wolves.*
> 
> As Tech has said 'Complexity impresses' and even harder to unravel without the poster actually showing something. Many a dodgy poster will layer complexity with more complexity as a way of covering up their rubbish. For many this crap stands out clearly but I know for some they fall for it.
> 
> I .





OOOoOO 


now that is a really good bit of post actually


have a great day


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## tech/a (18 April 2009)

> grumpy arrogant ar$e like myself




I personally prefer to be toxic.



> One of the many bits of advice from traders here is to find a mentor but with that very bit of advice I think we are delivering the sheep to the wolves.




I certainly DISAGREE with your view on mentors.Ive searched them out in those areas of life where I wish to be beyond proficient.My success in those areas I CAN directly attribute to these people.Far from wolves,in fact they were/are more like a shepherd/s.

I'll give some examples
(1) When I wanted to do my first property developement,I had no idea. I searched out a guy who had done 30 that I knew of. For the cost of a lunch and 3 hrs of my time he showed me how to do a $1mill developement for no $s down and how to risk asses all developements---he even gave me the secret to finding suitable developement prospects---and over the years MUCH more.

(2) For years business just wouldnt expend.
I searched out a business owner who I knew had grown his business from 1 person to 80 people.
Again for lunch and over the years a few dinners,he showed me how to place the cart before the horse.Today we are 3 times our size since my first lunch-- and still growing---even in this downturn!

(3) Trading.
I found someone who is living most peoples dream of trading for a living---its NOT MINE (dream). But this person has to be profitable---its how they live---they in turn for a very reasonable sum have shown me the "secret" to long term profitability.----even in this downturn.

If people can and wish to do whatever they want in life without mentors thats fine but MY advice is if you wish to fast track then be diligent in your search and find them!

*True Mentors wont be expensive either*---because they LOVE what they do--the passion just ooozes---and they really get a kick out of other peoples success!!---they see it as their own.


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## Sean K (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> True Mentors wont be expensive either---because they LOVE what they do--the passion just ooozes---and they really get a kick out of other peoples success!!---they see it as their own.



Nice one Tech!

Totally agree.

Beware of the mentor asking for a kidney!!


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## MS+Tradesim (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> *True Mentors wont be expensive either*---because they LOVE what they do--the passion just ooozes---and they really get a kick out of other peoples success!!---they see it as their own.






kennas said:


> Nice one Tech!
> 
> Totally agree.
> 
> Beware of the mentor asking for a kidney!!




I agree with this too. A true mentor passes on knowledge and understanding of how to apply knowledge (I would call this wisdom) and probably gains more from seeing the student grow and develop than from any material reward. I can understand someone wanting to pay to learn from a successful educator, but a true mentoring relationship is not about money for service.

Having said that, I see where TH is coming from. The newbie is just as likely to be impressed by a BS artist and end up deferring to someone who is actually dangerous to their journey. 

I think that's where challenging claims becomes important. The real traders here - being in a community which necessarily involves two-way relationships - do have some level of obligation to help newbies steer away from BS and danger. At least I would believe this to be true of those who understand mentoring, and basic decency.


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## nomore4s (18 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Nice one Tech!
> 
> Totally agree.
> 
> Beware of the mentor asking for a kidney!!




What exactly did you tell your Grandmother to get her kidney?


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## nomore4s (18 April 2009)

MS+Tradesim said:


> I think that's where challenging claims becomes important. The real traders here - being in a community which necessarily involves two-way relationships - do have some level of obligation to help newbies steer away from BS and danger. At least I would believe this to be true of those who understand mentoring, and basic decency.




This is what I like about ASF,  BS artists are challenged and good traders freely hand out knowledge.


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## Cartman (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> I personally prefer to be toxic.




Your not toxic at all Tech --- your just playful ---- in a grumpy kind of way




tech/a said:


> I certainly DISAGREE with your view on mentors.




Problem with Mentors is how do you know if the mentor is the 'right' mentor for you personally? (talking trading, not regular gigs --- mentors for general life stuff is fine, but trading is a different ball game)  -----

ie are they just giving you *their* spin on how the market should be attacked ---- 

i mean if you or TH or Nick R trained the same 10 punters to trade what would be the odds of any of them becoming successful based on that training alone ......... without personal input and bludy time consuming hard work, all the mentorship in the world aint gona help if the method 

a) doesnt suit the individual

and

b) the individual cant think for themselves

Trading successfully is more about hard work and being honest with yourself --- do the hard yards and give yourself an uppercut when you stuff up ---- if after the 10th uppercut ( im on my 5th but starting to throw a few jabs  )  your still stuffing up, try a different occupation i reckon --


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## tech/a (18 April 2009)

> Doesnt suit the individual




This is very important.

You may have to try a few.
I managed first go with most of mine
Due I guess to checking out what I thought I needed against what I thought they could offer.

Ive said of most mentors that I like and enjoy the way they think!
In fact the "Way" people think is to me an endearing and compelling reason to get to know them. most people who are attracted as friends I find have this quality---both men and women.


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## Sean K (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> This is very important.
> 
> You may have to try a few.
> I managed first go with most of mine
> ...



Surround yourself with fools and you will be a fool.

Reverse that for this discussion .....


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## tech/a (18 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Surround yourself with fools and you will be a fool.
> 
> Reverse that for this discussion .....





I'm a great lover of fools ----
*Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed.* 



> Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something
> 
> The surprising thing about young fools is how many survive to become old fools.
> 
> Ridicule is the first and last argument of fools.




But let us not forget

*The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.* 

Which not withstanding

*A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.* 

And lastly common in many of these threads.
Just take a look at the "Losers-Housing-and Stock threads"

*Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain -- and most fools do. *

Kennas I see we share a common interest then.


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## Trembling Hand (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> I certainly DISAGREE with your view on mentors.




No you don't, we agree. What I am saying is that yes a mentor can be great if they actually have something to teach. Ones that are full of **** ARE time wasters at best.

Its up to someone with experience to throw out some cautionary words. This I think we agree on?

I will post two or three examples of threads later when I have time of exactly the dodgy "mentoring" I mean.


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## Sean K (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> Kennas I see we share a common interest then.



I've only ever been successful at a job by having very smart people work for me.

Or, been trained well...


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## tech/a (18 April 2009)

> No you don't, we agree




Sorry next time I'll PM you just to be sure.



> I've only ever been successful at a job by having *very smart people *work for me.
> 
> Or, been trained well...




Ha ha we certainly have them FOOLED!


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## Sean K (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> Ha ha we certainly have them FOOLED!


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## Porper (18 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> *The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.*




Absolutely correct, and this may be the problem with some of the posters that this thread is rightly aimed at.There is nothing to stop them posting their odd big winners to convince all and sundrie (well almost) that they have the holy grail.

On the mentor point I agree with Tech.Find a good one that suits your style and they are invaluable.How do you know the good from the bad ? Easy, go with the ones that trade a real time account, updated daily and see if they make a profit or not.You'll soon see the B/S*ers from the good ones.

I can only speak for myself, but my mentor often (without realising) often picks me up when things go pear shaped, and puts me in my place when I think I have it sussed and am the best trader on the planet.Invaluable.


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## Cartman (18 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Surround yourself with fools and you will be a fool.
> 
> Reverse that for this discussion .....






tech/a said:


> I'm a great lover of fools ----
> *Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed.*
> 
> 
> ...




Nothing personal meant here gentlemen ---- and its probably getting the thread off topic (then again maybe not) ----- but i thought the tangent of 'foolishness' may warrant some balance of debate --- 

“Perception that others are foolish may in fact be an inability to accept a view that is outside our own scope of understanding. If we do not understand, yet we criticize, are we clever, or perhaps foolish ourselves.?” 

“To judge another as being a fool due to our own narrow mindedness and lack of depth of rationality may in fact render us the foolish one.” 

“Is a fool one who dares to speak what others wish not to hear, and is ridiculed, or is the fool he that chooses not to contemplate the possibility that there may be different perceptions of the truth to his own?”

Food for thought perhaps


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## Garpal Gumnut (18 April 2009)

Cartman said:


> Nothing personal meant here gentlemen ---- and its probably getting the thread off topic (then again maybe not) ----- but i thought the tangent of 'foolishness' may warrant some balance of debate ---
> 
> “Perception that others are foolish may in fact be an inability to accept a view that is outside our own scope of understanding. If we do not understand, yet we criticize, are we clever, or perhaps foolish ourselves.?”
> 
> ...




Sorry to burst in upon this wise thread, but, for an understanding of fools you need to read Shakespeare many times.

In his works there were many fools, both wise and ignorant. 

Who would say over the last 5 years in the market that he or she is not a fool at times.

As for gurus, they are not fools, they are smart.

I prefer fools.

gg

http://www.enotes.com/shakespearean-criticism/shakespeare-s-clowns-fools


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## It's Snake Pliskin (18 April 2009)

Cartman said:


> Nothing personal meant here gentlemen ---- and its probably getting the thread off topic (then again maybe not) ----- but i thought the tangent of 'foolishness' may warrant some balance of debate ---
> 
> “Perception that others are foolish may in fact be an inability to accept a view that is outside our own scope of understanding. If we do not understand, yet we criticize, are we clever, or perhaps foolish ourselves.?”
> 
> ...




The tendency to dismiss something or discount something is foolish. "On the pretext that I know it all, I'll discount it!"

But I think Gurus are smart and agree with you Garpal.


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## Bobby (18 April 2009)

Cartman said:


> Nothing personal meant here gentlemen ---- and its probably getting the thread off topic (then again maybe not) ----- but i thought the tangent of 'foolishness' may warrant some balance of debate ---
> 
> “Perception that others are foolish may in fact be an inability to accept a view that is outside our own scope of understanding. If we do not understand, yet we criticize, are we clever, or perhaps foolish ourselves.?”
> 
> ...




*One thing is for sure , your not one Cartman*

Cheers


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## Cartman (19 April 2009)

Bobby said:


> *One thing is for sure , your not one Cartman*
> 
> Cheers




thank you  Bob  ---- i suspect there may be others who dont hold your conviction however  ----  In the words of the illustrious Ned Kelly --- "Such is Life"


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## nulla nulla (19 April 2009)

*Re: Trading Claims.*



MS+Tradesim said:


> In your dreams that's your missus!!
> 
> 
> The rest of it I've no problem with.




Actually, if that was his missus, she would have left him ages ago and taken the House, the Ferrari and the Lamboghini with her.


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## MR. (20 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Surround yourself with fools and you will be a fool.




Yep.... that might explain why I can no longer reply to your blog, from yesterday...... 



kennas said:


> I've only ever been successful at a job by having very smart people work for me.




Tech/a's response to the above was referring to you Kennas as being no fool and being smarter than those VERY SMART PEOPLE because they were making money for you.

As I can not respond on your blog anymore as the King of the jungle has spoken can I respond here?  

You clearly blame yourself, yes..... but you blame yourself for listening to other posters opinions "the scaredy bears" which somehow stopped you from buying a heap of shares at 3-3100.  Although you were waiting for 2800. It was going through mine and many other heads as well "Is it close enough" and I'll add I was not waiting for 2000, 2000 was my figure for leverage, just in case...  As I appeared as one of two scaredy bears on that blog of yours could it appear that your comment could involve some of my comments?  Perhaps? 

Anyway, happy you're on top of some of the problems now!
Need another mentor  Nun, T/H, U/F, NM4's what ya doin? 

MRC&co I understand why then you respond...  and although this thread does seem to be the correct place "It's not a competition"


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## nunthewiser (20 April 2009)

MR. said:


> Anyway, happy you're on top of some of the problems now!
> Need another mentor  Nun, T/H, U/F, NM4's what ya doin?
> 
> MRC&co I understand why then you respond...  and although this thread does seem to be the correct place "It's not a competition"




Thanks for the mention but honestly i shouldnt be included in that list ....im no guru /swami/teacher . i trade for myself , i do not tend to share how i trade as i feel MY methods are only any good for ME ..... im just a bogan from wa that has his own ideas on how MY money should be controlled and each individual varys .....

its not that i dont want to help , its that i dont know how to guide or advise anyone on ANY perceieved correct strategies, as my strategies are for me and me alone.

happy to give an opinion on ANY question you have at any time tho if i can


personally think them other boys mentioned would be able to take you further and faster than i ever could

cheers


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## helicart (20 April 2009)

anyone take any notice of covestor? seemed a good idea at first. 

but the methodology sucks. I read once Tim Sykes reckons every trade is presumed to be your whole account, which is why his return is recorded as 1700% in 18mths.....which he says of course it isn't. 

I think validating claims is important. 
I almost immediately dismiss people who talk about $ profits rather than %s or R values. $s don't tell you squat about the risk you took to get the reward, nor the % of account you put on. 

I am more interested in Rs, leverage, time in the market, expectancy....rather than a trade here or there. 

I am also interested in people who have made a specialty of trading a sector, or a couple of commodities, or an index....via options, cfd's, futures.....and have depth of knowledge. 

I was going to do this with gold, but eventually realized gold spends a lot of time doing nothing. So the 500 hours it might take me to read, write up, and organize notes about it, wouldn't return as great a reward. 

There's also a lot of stuff going on you can't get reliable info on....like what the IMF, central banks, and treasury depts are doing with it....what Indian demand is like at a certain price on Dhanteras and Akshaya Tritiya.....and then there's so many rumours/misinformation it is a laugh. (like equities)


What I find is a lot of reasonably intelligent people approach trading the same way- talk to friends, read 20 odd books in their spare time, get some charting software, join a forum......they all end up with the same scratchy skill set for the same number of hours invested. 

Maybe 5 out of 100 get on a fast learning curve.....or stick with it for years and end up justifying the hours they spend at the puter.

I know one guy who trades professionally (for 5 years). no job. just trades the US markets 2-4 nights a week. He has travelled to the US and UK on 5 occasions for trade workshops with gurus. The best he's done is two years at 40%pa returnsl.....I haven't asked what his worst is. He's read every trade book I've heard of, and has probably 150 on his shelf at the moment. 

I sometimes think he has spread himself too thin and overly complicates things.....but then I reckon to get consistent rewards, you do have to specialize.


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## Wysiwyg (20 April 2009)

helicart said:


> .....but then I reckon to get consistent rewards, you do have to specialize.




There is a huge amount to learn and as you state, specialising would reduce the time taken to become proficient. Specialising in `what` is something that I think many find the difficult part. `What` trading vehicle and method.

Chart Technical Analysis alone is broad and a practice that many talk about but few have a sound understanding of. 

Would be good to see some more T/Aists on this forum to share their experience and more importantly explain what it is they are seeing. I do suppose there are many of us who have much to learn.


.


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## Edwood (20 April 2009)

afternoon - for the avoidance of doubt just post a screen shot of entry & exit showing time & price as-soon-as after a trade.  have seen thsi work elsewhere & weeds out dubious posters


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## CanOz (20 April 2009)

Edwood said:


> afternoon - for the avoidance of doubt just post a screen shot of entry & exit showing time & price as-soon-as after a trade.  have seen thsi work elsewhere & weeds out dubious posters




Edwood!!!!???? Your alive

Welcome back mate! 

Where'd you git ta?

CanOz


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## Edwood (20 April 2009)

CanOz said:


> Edwood!!!!???? Your alive
> 
> Welcome back mate!
> 
> ...




hi CanAussie  thanks! 
Numebr 3 arrived a while back so time has been tight.  and focusing pretty much exclusively on first 90 mins of FTSE so haven't really had much cause to come over here
hope all is good for you


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## CanOz (20 April 2009)

Edwood said:


> hi CanAussie  thanks!
> Numebr 3 arrived a while back so time has been tight.  and focusing pretty much exclusively on first 90 mins of FTSE so haven't really had much cause to come over here
> hope all is good for you




Well done Edwood. Couldn't be better up here. 

Good to see you back.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## theasxgorilla (20 April 2009)

kennas said:


> I've only ever been successful at a job by having very smart people work for me.
> 
> Or, been trained well...




And contrary to popular belief there really are a lot of smart people out there...who simply aren't trained/educated.


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## Wheep0 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*

Yep the Dub meister banned me from HC, Im far to bullish for him.I suppose telling him he was a schizophoid depressive in need of urgent medication didnt help. 
I dont intend to make friends on internet forums, not interested. I just like a platform to express me views, and by fact a lot of people replied on this thread to my posts , actually 3 to 1 since I posted so must be doing something good for debate!
I did not sell this week. decided the world has just got to much catching up to do, my little pile will stay in.
Actually had a great start to the day with ADX.... My average is 5.5c.. holding 900k .....reading between the lines , I reckon we are turning.

Hard day at in the day job... ( oil) All in all pretty happy with my lot and looking forward to a nice departure from this market within the next 12 -18 months..Never to return..

Factually my profit is now sitting at approx 40% on my investment.. However as most poeple dont like me talking about the figures lets just call it monoply money made on MS stock trader 09.... sitting today on $ 495k profit ...paper of course.....

Say what you want, I was lambasted by the bear masses on HC all shorting stocks, I dont mean to be crass or ignorant, I know there has been a lot of pain and suffering. I have never shorted a stock and never will, I believe in the future and the betterment to families and business in a healthy economy and market. I dont down ramp, and I dont upramp. I tell the facts that matter to me, I think my morals are pretty high. I am an investor for the country, for business and for myself
If you dont like it, sorry....Im no expert, far from it, just followed my own road. I dont apologise for the amount of money I have been able to invest, I have worked hard all my life in my carear and hey I now find myself with a 7 figure sum to invest.. no apologies there...no handouts, lottery wins, or inheritance either, just hard work in my chosen carear.

I always believed in a turn around, and do you know what its happening..
I have taken my chance ,stood by my conviction and I will live with the outcome no matter what. 
This has and still is a fantastic opportunity for mid to long term on quality acutely oversold stocks.. Look at the facts and ASK YOURSELVES if you will ever be able to buy WOR at $ 12, LEI at $ 15, FMG at $ 1.35, PDN at $ 2.15.......There are so many more, and thats NOT upramping people, thats brutal realism!
This was only 4-5 months ago! and now look where they are!

So the many imposters, double sword followers and alto egoist`s on here, dont take your angst and your bitterness out on me. I took my chance, have you!

To the many market experts and chartists.. respect to you, im sure you think you know where its all going....... just as well i didnt listen to any of you in October ,November... Only one anyone should listen to is their own head!

So to sum up..
Theres going to be no implosion cum back to depression on this watch, ...Sure theres many a bump to come, but the dawn has come.. 
smiles, and wishes
wheep0.


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*

no offense intended but i dont actually believe you purchased them stocks at them prices and until proven otherwise i basically think you just another full of sheet poster prone to dreaming instead of actually using real cash 

no offense intended


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## Wheep0 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



nunthewiser said:


> no offense intended but i dont actually believe you purchased them stocks at them prices and until proven otherwise i basically think you just another full of sheet poster prone to dreaming instead of actually using real cash
> 
> no offense intended




Listen matey, when you can spell offence, then
come back to me..
give me your perosnal email and I will send you my purchase transactions from October, November, December.. I will also include my ORI at $ 11.50,and others as well...


dont worry no offenSe taken.
Remember dont have remorse..
wheep0


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*

internet hindsight claims of buying at lows and previous prices a dime a dozen in internet forums and 90 % of them just basically bullsheet , so please forgive my non believing but have heard all this self ego masturbation for years on all the forums 


avaniceday

my email addy has been PC,d to you 

no remorse here , i been trading what has been presented , right and wrong , im no guru but im no believer of hindsight claims either


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## Wheep0 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



nunthewiser said:


> internet hindsight claims of buying at lows and previous prices a dime a dozen in internet forums and 90 % of them just basically bullsheet , so please forgive my non believing but have heard all this self ego masturbation for years on all the forums
> 
> 
> avaniceday





Bejesus man, you been posting on these things for years!!! Hmm says ever so much about your life.
Hope you you didnt hold last year?

Nothing to prove to you kind sir, If it makes you feel better, its all a fantasy now go and bug the dog...

wheep0


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



Wheep0 said:


> Bejesus man, you been posting on these things for years!!! Hmm says ever so much about your life.
> Hope you you didnt hold last year?
> 
> Nothing to prove to you kind sir, If it makes you feel better, its all a fantasy now go and bug the dog...
> ...





lol scroll through my posts dear  nothing hindsight about my exits OR entrys 

you emailed me them statements yet ?

could always give them to a moderator here to verify if you wish


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## questionall_42 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



Wheep0 said:


> If you dont like it, sorry....Im no expert, far from it, just followed my own road. I dont apologise for the amount of money I have been able to invest, I have worked hard all my life in my carear and hey I now find myself with a 7 figure sum to invest.. no apologies there...no handouts, lottery wins, or inheritance either, just hard work in my chosen carear.






Wheep0 said:


> Listen matey, when you can spell offence, then
> come back to me..
> give me your perosnal email and I will send you my purchase transactions from October, November, December.. I will also include my ORI at $ 11.50,and others as well...
> 
> ...




Seriously Wheep0, get a life, get your facts straight, don't be hypocrite and don't hijack this thread.


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## Wheep0 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



nunthewiser said:


> lol scroll through my posts dear  nothing hindsight about my exits OR entrys
> 
> you emailed me them statements yet ?
> 
> could always give them to a moderator here to verify if you wish




I have nothing to prove to you matey...
If you think the basis of one reply is going to lead me emailing you my portfolio statments, then think again... I tell you what I will do though... I will send you through a couple soon when I have tippexed my personal details out , just to make for feel better..
Blimin heck, you are gettin a bit creepy... As I said dont believe me, its all monoply money and I am in my parallel universe buying these stocks at these prices..really does not bother me one jot what you think. 
Now its late.I got to be up at 0500 to ensure my rig is drilling.....
ZZZZZ
wheep0


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## nunthewiser (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*

thats fine darl .......... dont send anything , im fine with it actually ..... 

like i said you could have always shown them to a moderator here also but i guess that would be a lil to hard considering the fantasy aspect of ya whole ego masturbation session , but hey if that floats ya boat who are we to stop ya before you finish.


gotta love YET another hindsight expert tho 

geeeez is it me or are more and more hindsight and wannabe guru,s appearing lately ??


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## Wheep0 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



questionall_42 said:


> Seriously Wheep0, get a life, get your facts straight, don't be hypocrite and don't hijack this thread.




ok then, how about, I had 7k to invest and I want to short the indexes, would that work for you? Can you advise me ?
Why am I hi jacking it...? Is this your personel thread?
Im only giving my opinion and my personal details into what I think about a deadcat bounce or a recovery , If the figures are to much for you to compute, again its only monoply money.
wheep0


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## questionall_42 (20 May 2009)

*Re: Recovery or Dead Cat Bounce?*



Wheep0 said:


> ok then, how about, I had 7k to invest and I want to short the indexes, would that work for you? Can you advise me ?
> Why am I hi jacking it...? Is this your personel thread?
> Im only giving my opinion and my personal details into what I think about a deadcat bounce or a recovery , If the figures are to much for you to compute, again its only monoply money.
> wheep0




Please impart your thoughts on what you wisdom you are sharing on this thread? (Btw, i it is not my personal thread, but a pretty wide ranging discussion on whether this cat is dead and or bouncing). All i can gather is that 1) you've made sheissloads because you picked the perfect bottom in oct and 2) you want to share this because ????

If you are so sure of your convictions and would like to impart knowledge on this forum, then state your strategy FOR THE FUTURE and we can track it. Your entries and exit. Trade it live. Without that, you will not get any respect for the trite you are typing.


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## nomore4s (21 May 2009)

Alright enough is enough.

Wheepo either put up or shut up. This forum doesn't take lightly to unsubstantiated claims, either provide some sort of evidence to prove your claims or please stop posting these claims on this forum.

I have a feeling you are doing nothing more then trolling - I'm happy to be proven wrong though.


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## nunthewiser (21 May 2009)

Hi guys im from hotcopper 

i bought everything at there march lows and now have made 50 billion bucks in a couple of months 

thankyou


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## MR. (21 May 2009)

Wheep0 said:


> give me your perosnal email and I will send you my purchase transactions from October, November, December.. I will also include my ORI at $ 11.50,and others as well...wheep0






nunthewiser said:


> my email addy has been PC,d to you






Wheep0 said:


> If you think the basis of one reply is going to lead me emailing you my portfolio statments, then think again... I tell you what I will do though... I will send you through a couple soon when I have tippexed my personal details out , just to make for feel better..wheep0




Calling one's bluff over an email address? That's funny.......


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## beamstas (21 May 2009)

Guys stop biting!
It's obvious this guy has no idea so just leave it 
Let him enjoy the rest of his life in NR's Beginner Cycle 

As for me i'll just move on and keep plugging away slowly but surely


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## Real1ty (21 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Alright enough is enough.
> 
> Wheepo either put up or shut up. This forum doesn't take lightly to unsubstantiated claims, either provide some sort of evidence to prove your claims or please stop posting these claims on this forum.
> 
> I have a feeling you are doing nothing more then trolling - I'm happy to be proven wrong though.




Good work nm4's, the day this forum ends up anything like HC, is the day i leave.



nunthewiser said:


> Hi guys im from hotcopper
> 
> i bought everything at there march lows and now have made 50 billion bucks in a couple of months
> 
> thankyou




Love your work nun


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## beamstas (21 May 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> Hi guys im from hotcopper
> 
> i bought everything at there march lows and now have made 50 billion bucks in a couple of months
> 
> thankyou





I don't believe you


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## Temjin (21 May 2009)

WHEEPO, if you have a sufficient high self-esteem (which I don't believe you have anyway), you wouldn't even have bothered trying to defend yourself in this thread, or forum.  

Why would you care about what other people think of your trading results anyway? What are you trying to prove? 

Let say you did send in the statements and that it indeed proved that you brought those shares (and made profits) on what you have claimed, what would you get out of it?

Like being satisified that you showed those arrogant idiots on this forum that you know better than anyone else? 

Or you feel more happy for being able to degrade everybody else and prove that they are wrong, and you are right after all? 

In fact, why do you even care about if you are right or wrong?

If you actually did make the money and have TOTAL CONFIDENCE in your investment/trading strategy (proven in action), why would you even care if nobody else believed you? 



By the way, this thread is a great read. Will add more to it later.


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## skc (21 May 2009)

I thought we have established a standard going rate of $500 per challenge on trading claims. Nun, you've asked for claims on about 5 trades from Wheepo, so $2.5K chop chop...

Have PM's you my account details.


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## nunthewiser (21 May 2009)

skc said:


> I thought we have established a standard going rate of $500 per challenge on trading claims. Nun, you've asked for claims on about 5 trades from Wheepo, so $2.5K chop chop...
> 
> Have PM's you my account details.




lol cheques in the mail


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## awg (21 May 2009)

no tippex required to blank out names

just take a screen shot of your brokerage account and blank out the personal details using MS paint.

takes 2 minutes and we can all see the green.

TH where are you?

what the hell is wrong with people who wont do that?

if my account was as good as his claims, and peeps were dissing me

i would take so much pleasure ramming it up them

if i was that way inclined


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## Naked shorts (21 May 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> Hi guys im from hotcopper
> 
> i bought everything at there march lows and now have made 50 billion bucks in a couple of months
> 
> thankyou



LOL


Dear nun, 

I would like to buy your books.

Regards
NS


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## Naked shorts (21 May 2009)

Below is one of my broker statements.

After looking at it, hopefully you will understand why broker statements are not definitive evidence of trading claims and they should be taken for a grain of salt.


Now obvioulsy, my can be easily seen to be fake, but if i put more time and effort into it, it would pass as legitimate.


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## nunthewiser (21 May 2009)

LOLOL

"1 billion dollars bitches" 

luv ya work NS 

p.s the books and sytems are going like hotcakes .better get in quick


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## awg (21 May 2009)

Naked shorts said:


> Below is one of my broker statements.
> 
> After looking at it, hopefully you will understand why broker statements are not definitive evidence of trading claims and they should be taken for a grain of salt.
> 
> ...





Point taken...nice work..hey i want some fake ID..can u help? 

I suppose thats why mods get paper copies

dont usually participate in these debates

at least u posted something!!!


----------

