# Are Muslim Extremists Invading Britain?



## Pager (22 May 2013)

This is worth watching, the young girl who comes across as tolerant and understanding is obviously deeply saddened by whats happening in her home town, as an Englishman it saddens me as well, extremists will always be part of society but these people who think they dont have to observe UK laws should really take a good look at themselves, thank god they are a minority.


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## noco (22 May 2013)

Pager said:


> This is worth watching, the young girl who comes across as tolerant and understanding is obviously deeply saddened by whats happening in her home town, as an Englishman it saddens me as well, extremists will always be part of society but these people who think they dont have to observe UK laws should really take a good look at themselves, thank god they are a minority.





Good thread Pager. I have been saying for months and months on this forum ( Religion is crazy) that the muslims want world domination and when they think they have a enough numbers they start their demonstrations. They will ignore the laws of their adopted country. I ask, "why did they leave their own country of origin in the first place"?

Yes they are infiltrating or invading the Western World in alarming numbers and it has been noted in my mind in Australia with the illegal boat arrivals of which IMHO are 100% muslim.

They have moved into third World countries in Africa and are performing "ethnic cleansing". That is if you are a Christian or an ifidel you are susceptible to elimination.

It is all so alarming and Australia should wake up before it is too late.


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## DB008 (22 May 2013)

I will say this.

When the Sydney Muslim riots occurred, a very close friend of mine, his father said, "I won't be alive to see it, but l think that something very bad will happen from all of this Muslim and Western culture clash, maybe it's best if l am not around to see it, because it will be pretty bad."






> *Many in Muslim world want sharia as law of land: survey*
> 
> (Reuters) - Large majorities in the Muslim world want the Islamic legal and moral code of sharia as the official law in their countries, but they disagree on what it includes and who should be subject to it, an extensive new survey says.
> 
> ...


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## DB008 (22 May 2013)

Sorry, forgot to answer the question.

Short answer, YES.




> *Islamic Sharia Law Comes to Great Britain*
> 
> http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/November/Islamic-Sharia-Law-Comes-to-Great-Britain/
> 
> ...







> *Inside Britain's Sharia courts*
> 
> A new documentary that goes undercover in Britain's Islamic courts reveals the shocking discrimination some women are suffering
> 
> ...


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## DB008 (23 May 2013)

**Breaking News**

BEHEADING IN LONDON. 

Soldier beheaded in public by African Muslim.


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

DB008 said:


> **Breaking News**
> 
> BEHEADING IN LONDON.
> 
> Soldier beheaded in public by African Muslim.




This is shocking, I think the Brits will eventually deal with this but here in Oz ?
It's about time something was done before the trouble really starts.


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## dutchie (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> This is shocking, I think the Brits will eventually deal with this but here in Oz ?
> It's about time something was done before the trouble really starts.




At some time in the future we will need to consider limiting/stopping immigration from Muslim countries.

Radical indeed, but how else can we protect ourselves from these types of attitudes,terrorist attacks and disrespect of our way of life?

Our cultures/way of life/religion etc just don't mix and there will be more trouble ahead. The Sydney demonstration/riot was just the tip of the iceberg.


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

dutchie said:


> At some time in the future we will need to consider limiting/stopping immigration from Muslim countries.
> 
> Radical indeed, but how else can we protect ourselves from these types of attitudes,terrorist attacks and disrespect of our way of life?
> 
> Our cultures/way of life/religion etc just don't mix and there will be more trouble ahead. The Sydney demonstration/riot was just the tip of the iceberg.




The thing is............we wont do anything until they start blowing us up in our streets.

Lets face it, it's too hard for the politically correct useless bunch of bludgers in the Lodge to do anything let alone address this problem.

They would rather you be blown to smithereens than offend anyone.


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## bunyip (23 May 2013)

Are Muslim Extremists Invading Britain?
The answer is a very definite YES, they’ve already invaded and they continue to invade, and not just Britain either, Australia is also being invaded, as are many other countries. In every single country that’s allowed muslims to come in en masse, serious problems have followed as a result. No exceptions.



DB008 said:


> I will say this.
> 
> When the Sydney Muslim riots occurred, a very close friend of mine, his father said, "I won't be alive to see it, but l think that something very bad will happen from all of this Muslim and Western culture clash, maybe it's best if l am not around to see it, because it will be pretty bad."




My thoughts exactly - I'm glad I won't be around when the situation gets out of hand, as it almost certainly will. 
Big problems have been the result in every single country that has imported muslims en masse....France, Britian, Holland, Spain. And now the problems have started in Australia. 
Not only do they hate us, but they hate each other. For thousands of years they're been fighting and killing each other in their stupid tribal system that pits one clan against another, one branch of their religion against another. Now they're doing the same thing in Sydney and other Australian cities. They never forgive or forget, they never embrace the freedom and lifestyle opportunites in their new adopted country. The come here and they continue with the very same attitudes that made their lives so intoleragle back in their home countries.



dutchie said:


> At some time in the future we will need to consider limiting/stopping immigration from Muslim countries.
> 
> Radical indeed, but how else can we protect ourselves from these types of attitudes,terrorist attacks and disrespect of our way of life?
> 
> Our cultures/way of life/religion etc just don't mix and there will be more trouble ahead. The Sydney demonstration/riot was just the tip of the iceberg.




We need to stop immigration from muslim countries right now, not some years down the track when even more damage is done. 
Maybe we could learn something from Japan - a country that won't have a bar of muslims, from what I've read.
I'll never forgive that fool Rudd for scrapping the Pacific Solution that was doing such a good job of keeping out illegall immigrants, most of whom were/are from muslim countries.

Trouble is, none of our main political parties are prepared to stand up and acknowledge the problem and confront it head on. Howard used to bang on about how immigrants to Australia are expected to fit in with Australian culture and values. But they were just hollow words that were not followed up on by his or any other government.
That Dutch politician who is very outspoken about muslims (I can't recall his name) was recently in Australia to tell us of the problems that plague his own country as a result of mass muslim immigration, and to warn us not to let the same thing happen here. He appeared on Q & A, and was pretty much scorned. 
Mark Dreyfus, recently appointed by Gillard as attorney general, said he disagreed with the Dutch politician.
It's this sort of dumb-arsed attitude from our politicians that's allowing the problem to fester and grow.

Anyway, as a baby boomer living a peaceful and pleasant existence on a hobby farm in a quiet rural area, I'm largely unaffected by the ever-growing muslim problem. And I'll quite likely depart this world before the situation gets out of hand like it's done in so many countries. 
I feel sorry for my kids and particularly my grandkids though - it's their generation that will have to deal with the results of a succession of short-sighted Australian governments.


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## Calliope (23 May 2013)

The true face of Islam in Britain.  "Allah Akbar"

Two men kill soldier with meat cleavers
Shot by police on busy London street
Witnesses: 'hacked like a piece of meat'
UK's brushes with terrorism
Brave women tried to shield body





http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...acks-in-woolwich/story-fni0xs61-1226648801254


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## CanOz (23 May 2013)

These guys are barbarians and have no place in a civil society.

Roll on EDL, i hope it spawns a whole wave of intolerance for violent Muslim extremism.

Ship them back, dead or alive.

The world is growing sick and tired of this.:frown:

CanOz


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## Knobby22 (23 May 2013)

The British National Party is doing well at present and can only expect to do better after this incident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party


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## bunyip (23 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...acks-in-woolwich/story-fni0xs61-1226648801254




_The Muslim Council of Britain described the killing as "a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam, and we condemn this unreservedly."_

No basis in Islam?? What absolute rubbish - their bloody book instructs them to kill 'infidels'. (non-muslims).


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## bunyip (23 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> I'll never forgive that fool Rudd for scrapping the Pacific Solution that was doing such a good job of keeping out illegall immigrants, most of whom were/are from muslim countries.
> 
> Trouble is, none of our main political parties are prepared to stand up and acknowledge the problem and confront it head on. Howard used to bang on about how immigrants to Australia are expected to fit in with Australian culture and values. But they were just hollow words that were not followed up on by his or any other government.
> That Dutch politician who is very outspoken about muslims (I can't recall his name) was recently in Australia to tell us of the problems that plague his own country as a result of mass muslim immigration, and to warn us not to let the same thing happen here. He appeared on Q & A, and was pretty much scorned.
> ...



Talking of dumb-arsed politicians who lack the backbone to stand up and publicly acknowledge the growing Islamic problem, and do something about it....I wonder if the new parties formed by Katter and Palmer are any different?


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## CanOz (23 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Talking of dumb-arsed politicians who lack the backbone to stand up and publicly acknowledge the growing Islamic problem, and do something about it....I wonder if the new parties formed by Katter and Palmer are any different?




I tell ya what, if i were an Australian citizen i would almost be tempted to vote for Hanson if she platformed on this....

CanOz


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> No basis in Islam?? What absolute rubbish - their bloody book instructs them to kill 'infidels'. (non-muslims).




Just for fun...



> Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass






> Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished






> And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain






> And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.




Can you guess the book?


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

CanOz said:


> I tell ya what, if i were an Australian citizen i would almost be tempted to vote for Hanson if she platformed on this....
> 
> CanOz




Yes I agree that would wake everyone up.


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## Calliope (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> Just for fun...
> Can you guess the book?




The difference is that few people in Britain take the Old Testament seriously, however when anyone criticises the Koran you have murderous Islamic rioters on your hands.


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> The difference is that few people in Britain take the Old Testament seriously, however when anyone criticises the Koran you have murderous Islamic rioters on your hands.




I don't disagree with you, but singling out the Koran is unfair, all those books are bad as eachother, IMHO.

Bible bashers have been tempered by centuries of secularism and education.

Had to laugh at the guy talking about "our lands" with an accent straight out of Peckham.


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## Sean K (23 May 2013)

The London event last night will occur here on our watch. It's only a matter of time. 

Is it worse than the Mafia and Triads though?

I think probably yes, because it's based on a religion with such an extreme dogma approach we wont see change for a long long time.

The answer?

I'd be very politically incorrect if I continue.

That may be the problem.


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## qldfrog (23 May 2013)

wrong title!
It should be
"Have muslim extremists( lower cases) invaded Britain?"
and then you can change to "Western Europe"
But we are OK in Australia aren't we, how many boats this month?
and yes there is a direct link!!!


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## noco (23 May 2013)

Whilst I cannot back it up with a link, I did read recently whereby it has been established that there are 57 illegal refugees here in Australia with criminal back grounds.


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## Calliope (23 May 2013)

kennas said:


> The London event last night will occur here on our watch. It's only a matter of time.
> 
> Is it worse than the Mafia and Triads though?
> 
> ...




You are right. Criticising the Muslim invasion or the extreme dogma embodied in the Koran, which encourages the belief that killing "infidels" is not murder, is politically incorrect in a country where our Greens advocate that there should be no barriers to the influx of Muslims by any means possible.

It is also politically incorrect to refer to the boat people who make illegal entry as illegal immigrants.


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

Hells Angels are banned in Germany and they didn't bring down the twin towers in New York and behead a soldier on the street in London.


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## DB008 (23 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Trouble is, none of our main political parties are prepared to stand up and acknowledge the problem and confront it head on. Howard used to bang on about how immigrants to Australia are expected to fit in with Australian culture and values. But they were just hollow words that were not followed up on by his or any other government.
> That Dutch politician who is very outspoken about muslims (I can't recall his name) was recently in Australia to tell us of the problems that plague his own country as a result of mass muslim immigration, and to warn us not to let the same thing happen here. He appeared on Q & A, and was pretty much scorned.
> 
> Mark Dreyfus, recently appointed by Gillard as attorney general, said he disagreed with the Dutch politician.
> It's this sort of dumb-arsed attitude from our politicians that's allowing the problem to fester and grow.





Geert Wilders (Wiki)

His webpage

The Australian political party is called "Q Society", which I have already stated on this forum I will be voting for come September.

SBS story tonight on this incident

*London attack 'beyond belief': UK press*

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1769946/London-attack-%27beyond-belief%27:-UK-press

Look's like the EDL (English Defence League) is gaining traction. I have to admit it, these Muslim extremists are really cutting their own throats.


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

The answer has to come from the Muslims themselves, if they are so quiet and peace loving they have to step up and dob in all the suspect ones, the extremists, if they do nothing they will all be tarred with the same brush.

If they act and draw a line between them and the extremists at least we might know who to trust, and move against the rotten apples before they do any damage.


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## CanOz (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The answer has to come from the Muslims themselves, if they are so quiet and peace loving they have to step up and dob in all the suspect ones, the extremists, if they do nothing they will all be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> If they act and draw a line between them and the extremists at least we might know who to trust, and move against the rotten apples before they do any damage.




Exactly, they have a chance to change this before it gets out of hand, otherwise world war III will truly be a racial war to end all wars.....

CanOz


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

CanOz said:


> Exactly, they have a chance to change this before it gets out of hand, otherwise world war III will truly be a racial war to end all wars.....
> 
> CanOz




They have to act or all Muslims will be blamed because ......well we cant tell the good from the bad but I bet they can.


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## bunyip (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> Just for fun...
> 
> Can you guess the book?




You won't find me defending Christianity either, new testament, old testament, or any other version.

But the biggest threat to the western lifestyle that we enjoy comes from Islam, not from Christianity.


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## Ves (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The answer has to come from the Muslims themselves, if they are so quiet and peace loving they have to step up and dob in all the suspect ones, the extremists, if they do nothing they will all be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> If they act and draw a line between them and the extremists at least we might know who to trust, and move against the rotten apples before they do any damage.



I mostly agree, good post Burnsy.


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## Some Dude (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The answer has to come from the Muslims themselves, if they are so quiet and peace loving they have to step up and dob in all the suspect ones, the extremists, if they do nothing they will all be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> If they act and draw a line between them and the extremists at least we might know who to trust, and move against the rotten apples before they do any damage.




Agree!


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> It is also politically incorrect to refer to the boat people who make illegal entry as illegal immigrants.




What law are they breaking?


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## trillionaire#1 (23 May 2013)

Its reassuring to read above posts that you guys feel as strongly as i do about the growing threat from
muslim extremists in the west.So many people take the politically correct view that we should embrace multiculturalism,but when we allow so many people in from countries with fundamentally opposed views on life,
the long term potential for social unrest on a large scale is scary.
Whats the answer?,move to a country with very little immigration,where ironically your now the minority.
Ah what the hell ill just stay home and mind my own business,stinking modern world:headshake


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## fiftyeight (23 May 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaN7quv48jk

This guy seems to have his finger on the money. For true change it needs to come from both sides


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## Sean K (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The answer has to come from the Muslims themselves, if they are so quiet and peace loving they have to step up and dob in all the suspect ones, the extremists, if they do nothing they will all be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> If they act and draw a line between them and the extremists at least we might know who to trust, and move against the rotten apples before they do any damage.



+1000000

If they don't, we're all in trouble really. 

The movie 'The Siege' is before it's time.


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## Sean K (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> What law are they breaking?



 None, unless they've paid their way and aren't true refugees. Do we just let every boat in and say welcome without checking credentials? I'm sure most of them are true asylum seekers but it only takes one person who can build a bomb and blow up a marathon to create mayhem and change the way we live. They already have.


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## Julia (23 May 2013)

kennas said:


> The London event last night will occur here on our watch. It's only a matter of time.
> 
> Is it worse than the Mafia and Triads though?
> 
> ...



You have pointed to the community fear which has been provoked by current political correctness.
Ordinary people are afraid to express their concerns because of certain backlash.
Hopefully, one positive factor to emerge from this horrific event in London will be a more widely recognised acknowledgement that we are, in so freely admitting Muslim asylum seekers to our community, courting exactly the same potential events.


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## MrBurns (23 May 2013)

fiftyeight said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaN7quv48jk
> 
> This guy seems to have his finger on the money. For true change it needs to come from both sides




No..... if these Muslims see the Brits as enemies the should be rounded up and put in jail, if they live in Britain they should toe the line regardless of their views, if they want to change something vote accordingly, what they did to that soldier has put their cause back even further than it was before.


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

kennas said:


> None, unless they've paid their way and aren't true refugees.




Nope they're still not illegal. There's no law that prohibits someone arriving in the migration zone to claim asylum.

There's no law that requires Australia to accept any, the Migration Act specifically says they have no lawful right, (although there are treaties) but to call the act of arriving by boat to claim asylum "illegal" is completely incorrect.


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## Gringotts Bank (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> No..... if these Muslims see the Brits as enemies the should be rounded up and put in jail, if they live in Britain they should toe the line regardless of their views, if they want to change something vote accordingly, what they did to that soldier has put their cause back even further than it was before.




When you become a citizen, don't you have to swear allegiance to the flag and the Queen, or something similar?


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## Calliope (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> What law are they breaking?




What part of "illegal entry" don't you understand? Legal entrants come here with passports and visas, and they are not predominantly Muslims.


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> What part of "illegal entry" don't you understand?




Well then, point me to the section in the Migration Act that makes it illegal to enter Australia in order to claim asylum.

Thanks

Here's the link to get you started.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/


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## spooly74 (23 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The answer has to come from the Muslims themselves, if they are so quiet and peace loving they have to step up and dob in all the suspect ones, the extremists, if they do nothing they will all be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> If they act and draw a line between them and the extremists at least we might know who to trust, and move against the rotten apples before they do any damage.




Fat Chance.
It's not the tiny minority of extremists that are the problem but the vast majority of muslims who say and do nothing. 
Can't wait for the 'poor average muslim' rhetoric 

The world would be better of without this vile ideology. Religion my ****ing ar$e.


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## qldfrog (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> What law are they breaking?



migration law, it took me 3 years to arrive here and all kingd of costly medical check, moral check etc....
these are here for a reason, not to end up like the country I had to flee to offer a future to my kids


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

qldfrog said:


> migration law, it took me 3 years to arrive here and all kingd of costly medical check, moral check etc....
> these are here for a reason, not to end up like the country I had to flee to offer a future to my kids




For the third time, no, they're not breaking any law.


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## qldfrog (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> Well then, point me to the section in the Migration Act that makes it illegal to enter Australia in order to claim asylum.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...




I usually enjoy your posts, but you are too intelligent to play this game, these are illegal immigrant, not asylum seekers, by the time they arrive in indonesia.
Feel free to spend a few years in europe to see the results when countries are playing dum and dummer in this area, it took only one generation to destroy western europe.
, and Europe is pretty hard for illegal immigrants as opposed to here,
It even happens that some get send back, which to my knowledge is never the case here (, unless you are new zelander or british )or similar but not for "boat people"


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## FlyingFox (23 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> For the third time, no, they're not breaking any law.




+1. They are not breaking any laws if they are seeking asylum, irrespective of how they get here (I might be wrong but I think many more asylum seekers arrive by plane than by boat). Asylum seekers get a visa (forgot subtype) as soon as they apply for asylum. 

An illegal immigrant is one who has no rights to stay here. Asylum seekers can become illegal if their claim is not accepted and they don't leave the country.

Source: My wife worked as a migration lawyer for a little while.


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## McLovin (23 May 2013)

qldfrog said:


> I usually enjoy your posts, but you are too intelligent to play this game, these are illegal immigrant, not asylum seekers, by the time they arrive in indonesia.




But this simply is incorrect. The UN treaty and Australian law does not qualify one's ability to claim asylum based on the last country they were in. A Swede could get on a plane tomorrow and arrive in Australia and claim asylum. Of course this leads to shopping around for the best place to seek asylum; who wants to stay in Indonesia when you can go to Australia. But it doesn't change the fact that they are not doing anything illegal.

I'm not supporting or criticising the status quo, just pointing out that the use of the phrase "illegal immigrant" is incorrect. Contrast it for example with what happens with Mexicans in the US, who are illegal immigrants because they are working.

I lived in Europe for five years, so I have some idea of the problems they have there. I'd certainly never want Australia to be like some suburbs of London.


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## qldfrog (23 May 2013)

or Sweden:

http://news.yahoo.com/stockholm-riots-challenge-image-happy-generous-state-234811107.html
or
Paris
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-paris-riots-20130514,0,700306.story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2323929/David-Beckhams-title-celebrations-marred-rioting-Paris-Saint-Germain-fans.htmlhttp://
just in the last two weeks in europe
Feel free to find who are the individuals behind these
and they are all legally local citizen now of their respective host countries
In other time, it would be called an invasion.
The semantic of the "illegal immigrant/asylum seeker' is laughable when considering the gravity of the situation.
I'd prefer the aus. navy patrolling our borders than fooling around in afghanistan...
In any case, they will all be fellow australians within months..


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## FlyingFox (23 May 2013)

qldfrog said:


> or Sweden:
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/stockholm-riots-challenge-image-happy-generous-state-234811107.html
> or
> ...




Semantics aside, I think the whole boat people thing has become too much of a sensationalist issue. As you point out above, these are legal citizens of the countries and they did not all become that as illegal immigrants or asylum seekers.

From 2006 census data, here is some food for thought ...


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## Calliope (23 May 2013)

It is a mystery to me why those on the political left support illegal immigrants. Is it because they are mainly Muslims? And why are Muslims so popular with the extreme left.:dunno:

I notice that those in Britain who oppose the Islamic invasion and the proliferation of terrorism are dubbed "the Radical Right."


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## stewiejp (24 May 2013)

Is it too late for Britain? The perpetrator with blood on his hands in the video "sounded" like a South Londoner to me. He never entered the country illegally, I'd guess he was either born there or arrived as a baby.

"Home grown terrorists" they call it - like it or not, the guy on the video, no matter what he is found guilty of, will remain in Britain - there's nowhere else to deport him too. Even though he's a muslim and I'd guess of African descent, and there's hundreds if not thousands of home grown terrorists being "groomed" by other terrorist leaders in the UK. All UK citizens.

Just putting it out there...

"Illegal immigrants" - put simply, it is not illegal to claim asylum in Australia, therefore "boat people" or "asylum seekers" by definition are not "illegal immigrants". An example of an Illegal Immigrant would be a student overstaying their term and simply working illegally, or tourists overstaying... not real scary stuff.

Someone quoted 50 odd (illegal) immigrants in Australia have criminal backgrounds from their home country.. I'd argue a *lot* more than that - I'd guess the number to be a lot higher.. since that's the "reason" some flee their home country.

It is becoming glaringly obvious what the common denominator to these atrocious acts are, and it's a topic none of the current pollies will touch with a barge pole.


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## qldfrog (24 May 2013)

FlyingFox said:


> Semantics aside, I think the whole boat people thing has become too much of a sensationalist issue. As you point out above, these are legal citizens of the countries *and they did not all become that as illegal immigrants or asylum seekers.*
> 
> View attachment 52366



I would strongly argue that point:
The parents of the kids involved were flooding Europe, as illegal immigrant /asylum seekers never sent back
 whenI was living there 30 years ago.
The "*boat*" issue was sensatiionalist under Howard: number wre minimal then (but unchecked immigration was not)
In the last two years, the boat arrival are significant and even less controlled that the rest of the immigration.
What we see today in europe is a direct consequence  and can not be fixed as we all agree they are now mostly national (well as the flood has not stopped, there are still a sizebale and ever increase number or non national involved but it is far too late for an easy solution.
There is not a single doubt it my mind that this will happen here in australia as well within 20 years.


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## qldfrog (24 May 2013)

FlyingFox said:


> 2006 sensus data
> 
> View attachment 52366



would be quite interesting to see one 7 years later: the unchecked immigration noticeably started in Brisbane around that time.


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## dutchie (24 May 2013)

Asylum seeker released after ASIO overturns threat assessment

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-...fter-asio-overturns-threat-assessment/4709362

What are they thinking??

You have a department with expertise in this field warning us of the potential problems and their decision being overturned by a stupid minister. Crazy stuff!


----------



## Calliope (24 May 2013)

stewiejp said:


> "Home grown terrorists" they call it - like it or not, the guy on the video, no matter what he is found guilty of, will remain in Britain - there's nowhere else to deport him too. Even though he's a muslim and I'd guess of African descent, and there's hundreds if not thousands of home grown terrorists being "groomed" by other terrorist leaders in the UK. All UK citizens.




Up to 200 of our "home grown" terrorists are in Syria honing their terrorist skills. It just shows that these Islamists will never integrate here.



> Intelligence agencies estimate that between 150 and 200 Australian citizens are fighting in Syria. This compares with only handful of civilians who fought in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia.
> 
> Of greatest concern is that a sizeable number of these self-selected warriors are suspected of fighting not with the moderate mainstream rebel group, the Free Syrian Army, but with the extremist elements of Syria's rebel movement, including the al-Qa'ida affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra, which soon will be formally designated a terror group by Australia.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...hardened-jihadis/story-e6frg6z6-1226630278661


----------



## bunyip (24 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> What law are they breaking?




I'd be breaking the law if I paid a criminal to perform an illegal activity on my behalf.

People smugglers are criminals conducting an illegal activity. The boat people are paying criminals to bring them here. They are therefore, by any reasonable definition, breaking the law.


----------



## Calliope (24 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> I'd be breaking the law if I paid a criminal to perform an illegal activity on my behalf.
> 
> People smugglers are criminals conducting an illegal activity. The boat people are paying criminals to bring them here. They are therefore, by any reasonable definition, breaking the law.




Yes. People smuggling *is* a criminal activity. You would have to be politically naive to claim that the products they bring in are legal. Perhaps the do-gooders think that the  criminal smugglers weed out the terrorist elements and only smuggle in genuine Islamic asylum seekers.

The facts are that the people smugglers provide a practical guarantee that the vast majority of their products will be granted asylum. Unless of course you are not an Islamist, but a Sri Lankan...then you will probably be sent back home.


----------



## MrBurns (24 May 2013)

The official reaction in the UK seems to be "oh my goodness this isn't the actions of our friends the Muslims"

So there wont be any banning of Mosques and restrictions on immigration therefore any change has to come from within the Muslim community and the authorities in Britain should demand action from THEM NOW not pussyfoot around their feelings any longer, they wont stop these massacres and attacks in the short term but they have to start confronting the problem or it will just get worse, and I repeat NOW please, just get on with it.


----------



## Calliope (24 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The official reaction in the UK seems to be "oh my goodness this isn't the actions of our friends the Muslims"
> 
> So there wont be any banning of Mosques and restrictions on immigration therefore any change has to come from within the Muslim community and the authorities in Britain should demand action from THEM NOW not pussyfoot around their feelings any longer, they wont stop these massacres and attacks in the short term but they have to start confronting the problem or it will just get worse, and I repeat NOW please, just get on with it.




Pigs will fly before this will happen. It is a pipe dream. We are talking about a culture which is alien to Europe. If you doubt this, look back at Pager's opening link. These people are not for turning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1KtJKNgO_ys


----------



## MrBurns (24 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> Pigs will fly before this will happen. It is a pipe dream. We are talking about a culture which is alien to Europe. If you doubt this, look back at Pager's opening link. These people are not for turning.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1KtJKNgO_ys




Then we have to treat the religion as a whole as the enemy and ban it from our shores.


----------



## McLovin (24 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> I'd be breaking the law if I paid a criminal to perform an illegal activity on my behalf.




Not unless a statute makes it an offence.

The Migratation Act specifically excludes someone paying a people smuggler to take them to Australia as committing an offence.



> Supporting the offence of people smuggling
> 
> (1)  A person (the first person ) commits an offence if:
> 
> ...




The bolded bits are the important bits.

So, to summarise. It is not illegal to enter Australia to claim asylum, and it is not illegal to pay someone to help you enter Australia to claim asylum.

So, what exactly are they doing that's illegal? Not illegal in your own lunchbox, but illegal in the old fashioned way of, you know, "breaking the law".


----------



## Ijustnewit (24 May 2013)

They start playing up , then send them home !

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-24/police-called-to-pontville-incident/4710674


----------



## sails (24 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> Not unless a statute makes it an offence.
> 
> The Migratation Act specifically excludes someone paying a people smuggler to take them to Australia as committing an offence.
> 
> ...




If people come to Australia under false pretences while destroying their ID so the Australian authorities can't find out exactly if they are a genuine refugee or not - isn't that illegal?  

I thought it was illegal to claim centrelink benefits under false pretences?

Try defrauding centrelink and see how you get on...


PS - I agree - it's not illegal to see asylum in Australia.  But we don't know how many are lying to get benefits here.  And it is illegal to lie to get benefits.


----------



## McLovin (24 May 2013)

sails said:


> If people come to Australia under false pretences while destroying their ID so the Australian authorities can't find out exactly if they are a genuine refugee or not - isn't that illegal?




No, it's not illegal to not have documents. It's illegal to present fake documents.

If they are asked straight out if they destroyed their documents and they say no, when in fact they did, then they have committed an offence. But such a charge would be virtually impossible to prove.

Either way, when 90% are shown to be refugees, it's a pretty long bow to be trying to draw.



			
				sails said:
			
		

> But we don't know how many are lying to get benefits here. And it is illegal to lie to get benefits.




No doubt some of them are. Once they are admitted to the country, they should be working. My grandparents arrived in this country, didn't speak any English, and had a job within three days.


----------



## Calliope (24 May 2013)

sails said:


> If people come to Australia under false pretences while destroying their ID so the Australian authorities can't find out exactly if they are a genuine refugee or not - isn't that illegal?
> 
> I thought it was illegal to claim centrelink benefits under false pretences?
> 
> ...




What we are doing, in effect, is delegating to the people smugglers the responsibility for selecting which Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis and Palestinians (all Islamists and potential terrorists) can enter Australia outside our normal quota limits. The smugglers can say to the illegals "for a price we can make you legal and the Australian Labor/Greens will take you to their heart".

Remember Islam also has the potential to turn "normal blokes" into monsters.



> He used to be a normal bloke. He always had a big smile on his face. He'd say, 'All right Wellsy, all right boy, what's happening?' He was always kind to me. I can't believe he's done that. He never talked about religion or politics. He didn't drink. It shows you don't really know what gets into people's heads.


----------



## sails (24 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> No, it's not illegal to not have documents. It's illegal to present fake documents.
> 
> If they are asked straight out if they destroyed their documents and they say no, when in fact they did, then they have committed an offence. But such a charge would be virtually impossible to prove.
> 
> ...





It would seem from the articles below that it is a bigger problem than just "some".

So the Iranians come here knowing they might be rejected, but their country won't take them back.  Are they really entitled to our welfare?  Chris Bowen explains in the article below:



> More than 40 per cent of asylum seekers who arrived by boat in the past year were Iranians and, of the ones assessed, about two-thirds have had their application for refugee status rejected.
> 
> Because Iran will not allow Australia to send the Iranians home, Immigration Minister Chris Bowen faces the choice of locking them up indefinitely, releasing them into the community or attempting to reach agreement to transport them to a third country.
> 
> ...





An older article now - the UN were saying large numbers are not genuine refugees, I am inclined to think that is still the case especially as the numbers have increased so substantially:



> UNHCR regional representative Richard Towle said Australia needed to better handle an increase in people being assessed as not needing international protection.
> 
> ''You've got large numbers of people now coming through the asylum system in Australia who are not refugees and the challenge is how to find fair and humane and effective ways of allowing them to leave this country to go home,'' Mr Towle said.




http://www.theage.com.au/national/send-asylum-rejects-home-un-urges-20101218-191do.html


----------



## sails (24 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> What we are doing, in effect, is delegating to the people smugglers the responsibility for selecting which Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis and Palestinians (all Islamists and potential terrorists) can enter Australia outside our normal quota limits. The smugglers can say to the illegals "for a price we can make you legal and the Australian Labor/Greens will take you to their heart".
> 
> Remember Islam also has the potential to turn "normal blokes" into monsters.





Like the brutal and unnecessary death of this young 25 year old.  Genuine refugees usually assimilate well and are grateful for the chance of a new life.  They don't go around butchering those who have given them a helping hand with meat cleavers:


Devoted father Lee Rigby named as terror victim


----------



## FlyingFox (24 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> Remember Islam also has the potential to turn "normal blokes" into monsters.




And how many "monsters" do you think comments like that creates?


----------



## FlyingFox (24 May 2013)

sails said:


> PS - I agree - it's not illegal to see asylum in Australia.  But we don't know how many are lying to get benefits here.  And it is illegal to lie to get benefits.




Different issue. they don't need to lie to get benefits. Many have nothing. However I do agree with you that our very generous welfare system is among the draw cards (not the only or most important one).

Having said that, I know of people that have legally entered the country and have been "ripping" centerlink off for years. (It's tightened up considerably lately).


----------



## sails (24 May 2013)

FlyingFox said:


> Different issue. they don't need to lie to get benefits. Many have nothing. However I do agree with you that our very generous welfare system is among the draw cards (not the only or most important one).
> 
> Having said that, I know of people that have legally entered the country and have been "ripping" centerlink off for years. (It's tightened up considerably lately).




What do you mean MANY  have "nothing"???  They pay smugglers thousands of dollars to get here.  Presumably they have ID to get to Indonesia to be "smuggled" here.  

Real refugees usually don't have that sort of money.  How many in squalid camps around the world would have enough money to feed themselves - let the cost of getting to Indonesia and then paying the smuggler's fare?

If our money were being spent on those refugees who have already been deemed as genuine by the UN and who have no money to pay smugglers, I would feel very differently.


----------



## FlyingFox (24 May 2013)

To clarify, my personal position on this is similar to few of the comments posted by Mr Burns. I think we should be looking at stopping the radical element as well as proponents of Islamic states/laws within western countries. This is a relative minority. In doing this political correctness has to go out the window and the community at large including those that follow Islam need to be supportive of this.

By labelling everyone as rotten apples, all you will do is get more people radicalised.


----------



## sails (24 May 2013)

FlyingFox said:


> ...By labelling everyone as rotten apples, all you will do is get more people radicalised.





FlyingFox - I have much sympathy for GENUINE refugees. How many times do I have to state that?

And,  I don't believe I labelled everyone as a rotten apple.  Please show me where I said any such thing? 

 However, I have shown articles which indicate that large numbers of arrivals may not be genuine refugees.  As such, they are taking the places of those who are in much greater need of help.


----------



## Some Dude (24 May 2013)

FlyingFox said:


> By labelling everyone as rotten apples, all you will do is get more people radicalised.




Moderate groups that not only reject them but also operate within the spirit and letter of our laws should be supported as much as possible. If we help them to overcome and prosper within our system of laws, we help everyone.


----------



## Julia (24 May 2013)

Someone featured on one of ABC Radio's current affairs programs (sorry can't  now remember which) had a novel suggestion to solve the problem:

All the non-muslims should get out of Muslim countries, and all the Muslims should get out of non-muslim countries.  Obviously, it's ridiculously simplistic, but perhaps the underlying idea makes sense.


----------



## MrBurns (24 May 2013)

Julia said:


> Someone featured on one of ABC Radio's current affairs programs (sorry can't  now remember which) had a novel suggestion to solve the problem:
> 
> All the non-muslims should get out of Muslim countries, and all the Muslims should get out of non-muslim countries.  Obviously, it's ridiculously simplistic, but perhaps the underlying idea makes sense.




No chance of that happening but the Muslim community must take responsibility for the sins of their religion, not just walk away under the protection of weak politicians afraid to offend, Islam is behind all the attacks, Islam must fix the problem.


----------



## moXJO (24 May 2013)

The majority of Muslims are fine. The extremists manage to hold back both sides, damage the image of Islam and ostracizing the community even more.

Interestingly enough I hear ADL is holding a protest at 4-5 pm at martin place today to capitalize on the hate. I wonder if they will break above three people attending.


----------



## qldfrog (24 May 2013)

funny how sometimes simplicity made sense, Gandhi, (a well know racist isn't he??? just kidding..) saw it;
Separation is what created Pakistan and Bangladesh carved out of India after independance
Integrist has no place in our weak western democraties, be it christian (US nuts for example) or muslim or satanist;
the trouble is that Islam has been fed and is fed with oil money into an integrist religion.
Moreover their holy book is a step by step code of conduct for daily live, which the bible is not, and so need to be more strictly followed and leave no room for interpretation or evolution.
Is Islam the enemy? I would say, yes the islam of 2013 as preached and inducted into millions of kids in the islamic schools is.
It already alienates half of mankind (women) and a quarter at least of the remaining humans as non believers or worse atheist...
And yes there is a link with the flood of "asylum seekers (r o l) alias illegal immigrants who may not be illegal[ who gives a dam if this country is too dumb to find its **** from its head with the current government].
Anyway, more stories like that will come, usually hidden or disguise  (does not need to be by the abc), and seeing history the weak will loose so not much hope


----------



## Ves (24 May 2013)

Julia said:


> Someone featured on one of ABC Radio's current affairs programs (sorry can't  now remember which) had a novel suggestion to solve the problem:
> 
> All the non-muslims should get out of Muslim countries, and all the Muslims should get out of non-muslim countries.  Obviously, it's ridiculously simplistic, but perhaps the underlying idea makes sense.



I find it amusing, that when offering a similar thought on a forum or on the radio or in discussion, nearly ten years ago, a person would have been labelled an extremist or a Nazi.

It's interesting how attitudes change when a source of fear is invoked.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (24 May 2013)

Ves said:


> I find it amusing, that when offering a similar thought on a forum or on the radio or in discussion, nearly ten years ago, a person would have been labelled an extremist or a Nazi.
> 
> It's interesting how attitudes change when a source of fear is invoked.




There's always a source of fear; it's built in to human software to fear 'other'.  It's just that the more immediate the threat, the more acceptable it is to hold extreme views.  If the North Koreans nuked Australia, it would be quite acceptable to refer to Koreans in a derogatory way (skin colour, eye shape and so on).  Just the way we are.


----------



## Ves (24 May 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> There's always a source of fear; it's built in to human software to fear 'other'.  It's just that the more immediate the threat, the more acceptable it is to hold extreme views.  If the North Koreans nuked Australia, it would be quite acceptable to refer to Koreans in a derogatory way (skin colour, eye shape and so on).  Just the way we are.



What do you think that that says about or morality system or, our taboos / political correctness?   Do you think it strengthens or weakens its usefulness?   Does the constant movement of the grey line of moral acceptance change anything?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (24 May 2013)

Ves said:


> What do you think that that says about or morality system or, our taboos / political correctness?   Do you think it strengthens or weakens its usefulness?   Does the constant movement of the grey line of moral acceptance change anything?




Moral behaviour is easy when you don't have to live with extreme adversity.  The beheading murder didn't strike any fear into my heart, so I don't react with hatred.  But what if I was the victim's brother?  It would be totally different.  Or maybe a friend died in the Twin Towers.  Again it would be different.  

Stealing is immoral.... isn't it?  What about if you're _literally_ starving to death?  Would you steal food from a store?  I would.  We all just do our best at the time.  Fear is part of the human condition.  Some people manage to overcome it.... like 1 in 100 million!


----------



## FlyingFox (24 May 2013)

sails said:


> FlyingFox - I have much sympathy for GENUINE refugees. How many times do I have to state that?
> 
> And,  I don't believe I labelled everyone as a rotten apple.  Please show me where I said any such thing?
> 
> However, I have shown articles which indicate that large numbers of arrivals may not be genuine refugees.  As such, they are taking the places of those who are in much greater need of help.




sails, that was a general statement targeted at no one.

I agree about the case that an increasing number of refugees may not be genuine, arriving by boat or otherwise. This costs a lot of tax payer dollars. Don't know if there is an easy solution to this.


----------



## Julia (25 May 2013)

One thing that puzzles me is why those asylum seekers who have flown from the Middle East don't just buy a relatively cheap air ticket from Jakarta, under $300, rather than pay people smugglers thousands of dollars to risk drowning on an overcrowded fishing boat.


----------



## noco (25 May 2013)

Julia said:


> One thing that puzzles me is why those asylum seekers who have flown from the Middle East don't just buy a relatively cheap air ticket from Jakarta, under $300, rather than pay people smugglers thousands of dollars to risk drowning on an overcrowded fishing boat.




Julia, there is a very simple explaination to that. If they buy a ticket for $300 and have to go through the airport Australian Immigration on arrival without their passport and visa, they will be sent straight back to where they came from. If they do have legitimate documentation and have nominated where they will be staying, then they can be tracked. Also they will not be eligable for welfare. Their visa should indicate whther it was a visitors or a working visa.

Come in by boat illegally without documenation, which has been thrown overboard on the way, then they get all the welfare goodies which has been mentioned on this forum so many times before.

The law is stupid and the people smugglers know all the tricks and loop holes in this inept Labor Goverment policy.


----------



## chiff (25 May 2013)

They may  not penetrate passport control in Indonesia,certainly not in  Australia.


----------



## chiff (25 May 2013)

Noco ,I urge you to go to Indonesia and get onto one of these boats and make your way to Australia.Think of all the benefits that you will get.Do these people throw their documents overboard?What proof have you of that?
I hope that it is not just another unsubstantiated denigration.
I would not have the courage to take one of these hazardous boat trips,and doubt whether I ever would have.I have always been too comfortable-even when I thought I was doing it tough.
To risk your life like this you have to be desperate-not sitting on the end of a computer.


----------



## Calliope (25 May 2013)

chiff said:


> Do these people throw their documents overboard?What proof have you of that?
> I hope that it is not just another unsubstantiated denigration.




Denigration?


> Of the 3237 asylum-seekers who admitted to flying to Indonesia on a passport, 3200 did not have any travel documents when they arrived in Australia.
> 
> People-smugglers routinely advise their clients to discard their identity documents before arriving in Australia.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...le-had-passports/story-fn9hm1gu-1226256747251


----------



## Ves (25 May 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Moral behaviour is easy when you don't have to live with extreme adversity.  The beheading murder didn't strike any fear into my heart, so I don't react with hatred.  But what if I was the victim's brother?  It would be totally different.  Or maybe a friend died in the Twin Towers.  Again it would be different.
> 
> Stealing is immoral.... isn't it?  What about if you're _literally_ starving to death?  Would you steal food from a store?  I would.  We all just do our best at the time.  Fear is part of the human condition.  Some people manage to overcome it.... like 1 in 100 million!



Thank you for the responses GB.  I don't pretend to have the answers - but I do see circumstancial morality in a society with mostly clear black and white taboo lines as an interesting dynamic.


----------



## bellenuit (25 May 2013)

chiff said:


> Do these people throw their documents overboard?What proof have you of that?




Surely the fact that they have managed to get from their country of origin to Indonesia in the first place means they had documentation to begin with? Sri Lankans coming directly from Sri Lanka are a different case, but those waiting in Indonesia would have needed documentation to get into Indonesia, particularly as they generally fly there according to most reports.


----------



## McLovin (25 May 2013)

noco said:
			
		

> Julia, there is a very simple explaination to that. If they buy a ticket for $300 and have to go through the airport Australian Immigration on arrival without their passport and visa, they will be sent straight back to where they came from. If they do have legitimate documentation and have nominated where they will be staying, then they can be tracked. Also they will not be eligable for welfare. Their visa should indicate whther it was a visitors or a working visa.
> 
> Come in by boat illegally without documenation, which has been thrown overboard on the way, then they get all the welfare goodies which has been mentioned on this forum so many times before.
> 
> The law is stupid and the people smugglers know all the tricks and loop holes in this inept Labor Goverment policy.




More disinformation.

Julia, an airline has a database that tells them what documents someone requires in order to travel to a country. This is based on the country they depart from and the passport they are carrying.

So at check-in, airline staff would see the following pop-up on their screen for, in this case, an Iranian citizen attempting to board a flight in Indonesia for Australia...



> National Iran (IR)              /Embarkation Indonesia (ID)
> Destination Australia (AU)
> 
> 
> ...




If they are incorrectly allowed to board without a valid visa then they could still claim asylum on arrival, however if they don't claim asylum then the airline will be responsible for flying them back to Indonesia. The simple reason is that they can't get a tourist visa, that allows them to board a flight in order to claim asylum. If they could, they would be flying from Tehran, not Indonesia.


----------



## Julia (25 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> Julia, an airline has a database that tells them what documents someone requires in order to travel to a country. This is based on the country they depart from and the passport they are carrying.
> 
> So at check-in, airline staff would see the following pop-up on their screen for, in this case, an Iranian citizen attempting to board a flight in Indonesia for Australia...



OK, thanks, I thought something like that must occur.

If the Coalition is elected in September, there will be a massive expectation on them to 'stop the boats'.
Hope they have a plan and not just a slogan.


----------



## DB008 (25 May 2013)

Family's tribute to butchered UK soldier

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=874872&vId=3981627&cId=Top%20Stories&play=true


----------



## stewiejp (26 May 2013)

Julia said:


> If the Coalition is elected in September, there will be a massive expectation on them to 'stop the boats'.
> Hope they have a plan and not just a slogan.




So do I Julia, and for the life of me I can't imagine a way either party can stop then.. the only way "the boats" are going to stop is if someone ends conflict, war etc in other countries. This is one of, if not the best country in the world to live in and people want to come here, so they will. Simple.


----------



## sails (26 May 2013)

stewiejp said:


> So do I Julia, and for the life of me I can't imagine a way either party can stop then.. the only way "the boats" are going to stop is if someone ends conflict, war etc in other countries. This is one of, if not the best country in the world to live in and people want to come here, so they will. Simple.




And bring their conflicts with them and butcher their hosts?  Genuine refugees generally don't cause conflict in their new country, imo.


----------



## qldfrog (26 May 2013)

stewiejp said:


> So do I Julia, and for the life of me I can't imagine a way either party can stop then.. the only way "the boats" are going to stop is if someone ends conflict, war etc in other countries. This is one of, if not the best country in the world to live in and people want to come here, so they will. Simple.



This assumes that they are refugees, I strongly disagree, the boats by the time they reach australia are economic refugees, trying to get a place where welfare will provide them with far more than any hard work will give them at home.
Just ensure no welfare  and no 'free everything' and the boats will stop quickly
I am just amazed than there are still so many poors from the african and indian continent who have not taken a boat to oz yet.
I know what I would do in their shoes


----------



## MrBurns (26 May 2013)

qldfrog said:


> This assumes that they are refugees, I strongly disagree, the boats by the time they reach australia are economic refugees, trying to get a place where welfare will provide them with far more than any hard work will give them at home.
> Just ensure no welfare  and no 'free everything' and the boats will stop quickly
> I am just amazed than there are still so many poors from the african and indian continent who have not taken a boat to oz yet.
> I know what I would do in their shoes




I think you're right there, I never really thought of it that way.


----------



## sptrawler (26 May 2013)

chiff said:


> Noco ,I urge you to go to Indonesia and get onto one of these boats and make your way to Australia.Think of all the benefits that you will get.Do these people throw their documents overboard?What proof have you of that?
> I hope that it is not just another unsubstantiated denigration.
> I would not have the courage to take one of these hazardous boat trips,and doubt whether I ever would have.I have always been too comfortable-even when I thought I was doing it tough.
> To risk your life like this you have to be desperate-not sitting on the end of a computer.




It is no more of a risk than the Bali drug mules, they risked being executed for the temptation of $10,000.
Why wouldn't people risk their lives, for the temptation of a life in a welfare state?


----------



## Calliope (26 May 2013)

sptrawler said:


> It is no more of a risk than the Bali drug mules, they risked being executed for the temptation of $10,000.
> Why wouldn't people risk their lives, for the temptation of a life in a welfare state?




Exactly. The odds are in their favour.


----------



## bunyip (27 May 2013)

Here is a perspective by Dr. Peter Hammond. Dr. Hammonds doctorate is in Theology. He was born in Capetown in 1960, grew up in Rhodesia and converted to Christianity in 1977.

Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. 
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. 

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. 
When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well..

Here's how it works: 

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving 
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in: 
United States -- Muslim 0..6% 
Australia -- Muslim 1.5% 
Canada -- Muslim 1.9% 
China -- Muslim 1.8% 
Italy -- Muslim 1.5% 
Norway -- Muslim 1.8% 

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. 
This is happening in:


Denmark -- Muslim 2% 
Germany -- Muslim 3.7% 
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7% 
Spain -- Muslim 4% 
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6% 

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims.

They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply.
This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8% 
Philippines -- 5% 
Sweden -- Muslim 5% 
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3% 
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5% 
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8% 

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. 

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions.
In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam.

Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10% 
India -- Muslim 13.4% 
Israel -- Muslim 16% 
Kenya -- Muslim 10% 
Russia -- Muslim 15% 

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8% 

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40% 
Chad -- Muslim 53.1% 
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7% 

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania -- Muslim 70% 
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4% 
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5% 
Sudan -- Muslim 70% 

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83% 
Egypt -- Muslim 90% 
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7% 
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1% 
Iran -- Muslim 98% 
Iraq -- Muslim 97% 
Jordan -- Muslim 92% 
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7% 
Pakistan -- Muslim 97% 
Palestine -- Muslim 99% 
Syria -- Muslim 90% 
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90% 
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8% 
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96% 

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace.. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100% 
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100% 
Somalia -- Muslim 100% 
Yemen -- Muslim 100% 

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons. 

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj' 

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law.
The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.
Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. 

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers.

Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century. 

Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat


----------



## MrBurns (27 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Here is a perspective by Dr. Peter Hammond. Dr. Hammonds doctorate is in Theology. He was born in Capetown in 1960, grew up in Rhodesia and converted to Christianity in 1977.




That's excellent, many thanks bunyip.


----------



## Calliope (27 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Here is a perspective by Dr. Peter Hammond. Dr. Hammonds doctorate is in Theology. He was born in Capetown in 1960, grew up in Rhodesia and converted to Christianity in 1977.
> 
> Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:
> 
> ...




From Herald Sun;


> *Fears* of a prolonged backlash against Muslims have intensified after dozens of Islamophobic incidents were reported in the wake of the murder of the British soldier Lee Rigby in south London.The Tell Mama hotline for recording Islamophobic crimes and incidents recorded 38 incidents over Wednesday night, including attacks on three mosques, with more reported on Thursday.
> 
> The Metropolitan police put 1,200 more officers on the street on Thursday, with extra patrols deployed to mosques and religious sites as far-right groups reacted to the tragedy




After reading bunyip's post I think *"hopes"* would better represent the feeling of the majority than "*fears*". Apparently if you oppose Islamisation of your country you are referred to as the "far-right". It seems Muslim immigration is more welcome under a left wing Government. This has been demonstrated in Australia.

What is it about the Islamisation of a country that is so attractive to a left wing government, apart from their votes?:dunno:


----------



## Knobby22 (27 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> From Herald Sun;
> 
> 
> After reading bunyip's post I think *"hopes"* would better represent the feeling of the majority than "*fears*". Apparently if you oppose Islamisation of your country you are referred to as the "far-right". It seems Muslim immigration is more welcome under a left wing Government. This has been demonstrated in Australia.
> ...




Rubbish. High immigration is a policy of *both parties*. Howard increased the immigration rate 3 fold (300%) from Keatings time. We can't be seen to be racist to our southern neighbours hence out inability to choose. 

Name me one thing Abbott will do different. I would actually expect him to increase immigration levels to a faster rate. The right wing think tanks want a higher immigration rate. Don't confuse the dog whistle issue of refugees with immigration.

One thing though in favour, the Greens never speak up against high immigration. You think they would as it goes against their aims.
I personally think that the immigration rate should be slowed. Melbourne can't handle another million people within 10 years.

Here's a chart. http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/15population.htm  Look where the peak is.


----------



## Calliope (27 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Rubbish. High immigration is a policy of *both parties*. Howard increased the immigration rate 3 fold (300%) from Keatings time. We can't be seen to be racist to our southern neighbours hence out inability to choose.




"Inability to choose"? The boat people who are predominantly Islamic have been encouraged by the Labor/Greens, and opposed by Abbott. Who are these southern neighbours that we can't offend. If you are referring to NZ I can assure that very few Islamists come here from that country.

Are you inferring that to oppose the Muslim invasion is racist?  If Muslim countries granted the same freedoms to "infidels" i.e. non-Muslims as we do to them, then I might be inclined to agree with you. However Islamism, like Judaism, is not a race, so "racism" is a misnomer.


----------



## Julia (27 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Rubbish. High immigration is a policy of *both parties*. Howard increased the immigration rate 3 fold (300%) from Keatings time. We can't be seen to be racist to our southern neighbours hence out inability to choose.



Which southern neighbours are you referring to here, Knobby?

You refer above to "high immigration" policy.  As I understood Bunyip's suggestion, he was referring not to overall immigration but specifically to arrivals by Muslims.
Could you perhaps clarify here?


----------



## Knobby22 (27 May 2013)

Julia said:


> Which southern neighbours are you referring to here, Knobby?
> 
> You refer above to "high immigration" policy.  As I understood Bunyip's suggestion, he was referring not to overall immigration but specifically to arrivals by Muslims.
> Could you perhaps clarify here?




We cannot be seen to be favouring other people in front of Muslims when we have Indonesia and Malaysia on our doorstep. We did away with the white Australia policy decades ago.
If we have a high immigration rate then we automatically have a high Muslim intake.

(Should have been northern neighbours).


----------



## Knobby22 (27 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> "Inability to choose"? The boat people who are predominantly Islamic have been encouraged by the Labor/Greens, and opposed by Abbott. Who are these southern neighbours that we can't offend. If you are referring to NZ I can assure that very few Islamists come here from that country.
> 
> Are you inferring that to oppose the Muslim invasion is racist?  If Muslim countries granted the same freedoms to "infidels" i.e. non-Muslims as we do to them, then I might be inclined to agree with you. However Islamism, like Judaism, is not a race, so "racism" is a misnomer.




I agree with you. I have lived in a Muslim country and didn't like it much. 
The boat people make a tiny difference only to our immigration. I know quite a few people from Muslim countries (some who have disowned Islam) and let me tell you, none of them came by boat. They all came by plane - from NZ, its the cheap route. Spend 5 years in NZ and then you can come to Australia - citizen in no time. Then bring your family and cousins etc..

The best way to bring large numbers over is to have a business they can work in. Why do you think the Chinese especially have bought all the large small businesses. Its sort of like buying yourself into this country. The family can work for you on the 457 visa while looking for an Aussie to marry.

My friend who is an Italian was asked recently to marry an Italian girl so she could stay in the country. Fake marriage of course.
He didn't do it but someone else did.

Mr Burns, you live in Melbourne don't you? You know how it is. You Queenslanders should visit. You may be shocked.


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## bunyip (27 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> We cannot be seen to be favouring other people in front of Muslims when we have Indonesia and Malaysia on our doorstep..



Why not – because it might offend someone? 
So we’re going to sacrifice our beautiful country and our wonderful lifestyle by allowing Islamists to take us over, all because we’re scared of offending someone??
I notice that the bastards aren't too worried about offending us!



Knobby22 said:


> We did away with the white Australia policy decades ago.
> If we have a high immigration rate then we automatically have a high Muslim intake.



Who’s talking about a ‘white Australia’ policy? There are many races of people around the world who are not white and are not Islamic. Immediately following World War 2 we had large immigration numbers from many races of people, some white and some not, and there were very few Islamists among them. Maybe that explains why those immigrants accepted our Australian values and lifestyle, and did everything they could to be one of us and make a solid contribution to our country. Mass immigration and multiculturalism work well enough when people have that attitude. The problems start when you bring in masses of people from fanatical religions whose ideas, values and attitudes are completely at odds with our own.


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## Knobby22 (27 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Why not – because it might offend someone?
> So we’re going to sacrifice our beautiful country and our wonderful lifestyle by allowing Islamists to take us over, all because we’re scared of offending someone??
> I notice that the bastards aren't too worried about offending us!
> 
> ...




Because it will be bad for business and our security as a nation


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## Calliope (27 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Because it will be bad for business and our security as a nation




Rubbish. Letting Muslims in through the back door is costing us hundred of millions and endangering our security. The countries we do most business with are certainly not Islamic. Muslims in Indonesia and Malaysia have nothing in common with Middle Eastern Muslims. 

The only reason Indonesia would be unhappy about us turning back the boats is because they don't want these parasites in their country.


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## DB008 (27 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> I agree with you. I have lived in a Muslim country and didn't like it much.
> The boat people make a tiny difference only to our immigration. I know quite a few people from Muslim countries (some who have disowned Islam) and let me tell you, none of them came by boat. They all came by plane - from NZ, its the cheap route. Spend 5 years in NZ and then you can come to Australia - citizen in no time. Then bring your family and cousins etc..




I think that loophole (NZ que-jump) has been closed now.


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## CanOz (27 May 2013)

Muslims are immigrating to Western countries for one reason, the social systems. You won't see the US and China overrun by extremists, it would be too hard for them to get employed and the social welfare system won't look after them.

I say shut the doors to all but the educated immigrants that will contribute to society....that's what many countries are doing now and there are many that are in need of more population.

CanOz


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## Boggo (27 May 2013)

Scroll down through this link for some interesting headlines.
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/...ot-protect-you-against-muslim-terror-attacks/


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## DB008 (27 May 2013)

*Dad in a million

Son Jack, 2, in balloon tribute to soldier Lee*









> IT was a scene as heartrending as the events at the same spot just days earlier had been horrific.
> 
> As hundreds of wellwishers fell silent in respect and Drummer Lee Rigby’s family wept in grief at the site of his murder, even hardened cops were left in tears.
> 
> On a day heavy with emotion, few sights were more poignant than that of Lee’s estranged wife Rebecca tying a balloon emblazoned with Dad In A Million ”” on behalf of son Jack, two ”” to the road sign where he was killed.




http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4943622/Lee-Rigbys-son-Jack-2-in-balloon-tribute-to-soldier-dad.html#ixzz2UU4poxFG


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## Julia (27 May 2013)

CanOz said:


> Muslims are immigrating to Western countries for one reason, the social systems. You won't see the US and China overrun by extremists, it would be too hard for them to get employed and the social welfare system won't look after them.
> 
> I say shut the doors to all but the educated immigrants that will contribute to society....that's what many countries are doing now and there are many that are in need of more population.
> 
> CanOz



+100.
There are hundreds of financially self supporting, professionally qualified people from eg South Africa, Zimbabwe, parts of Europe, who are not being admitted to live here.  We would be far better off with these people than those who can't speak English and have little interest in learning to do so, have few skills to make them attractive to employers, and who have no intention of assimilating into the general ethos of Australia.
The stats show that a large proportion of these people end up on taxpayer funded benefits indefinitely.


----------



## Calliope (27 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Mr Burns, you live in Melbourne don't you? You know how it is. You Queenslanders should visit. You may be shocked.




What would shock me?


----------



## sptrawler (27 May 2013)

Julia said:


> +100.
> There are hundreds of financially self supporting, professionally qualified people from eg South Africa, Zimbabwe, parts of Europe, who are not being admitted to live here.  We would be far better off with these people than those who can't speak English and have little interest in learning to do so, have few skills to make them attractive to employers, and who have no intention of assimilating into the general ethos of Australia.
> The stats show that a large proportion of these people end up on taxpayer funded benefits indefinitely.




Also they become self perpetuating.
Before you know it your the minority.lol

Also you don't see them flocking to Germany, there you only get a pension proportional to the years you have worked and paid taxes.


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## MrBurns (27 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> What would shock me?




I didn't see this, yes what would shock me ? 
We really cant go into some suburbs if that's what you mean ,we'll you can but you wouldn't want to.


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## qldfrog (28 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Because it will be bad for business and our security as a nation



sadly I believe what we do now is even worse, but I got your point


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## Knobby22 (28 May 2013)

qldfrog said:


> sadly I believe what we do now is even worse, but I got your point




Yes, I agree also. I don't want to see a too great of % of people with the Islam religion in this country too quickly as they won't assimilate.
We can't get around it without lowering the immigration rate. But as I said it is Liberal policy to have a high immigration rate so it will only go higher when they get elected.

Also, we already take educated people mainly. The Muslims I know are all engineers.


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## bunyip (28 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Because it will be bad for business and our security as a nation




Bad for business? Indonesia and Malaysia are relatively minor trading partners of Australia – and we wouldn't necessarily sever our business ties with them anyway by curtailing Muslim immigration. Manufacture and export of electrical goods to Australia makes a significant contribution to the Malaysian economy – I can’t see them getting a fit of the sulks and refusing to trade with us just because we no longer want mass immigration from Muslim countries.

Bad for our security? We’ll improve our security, not lessen it, if we stop importing people who have no intention of ever accepting our values, whose fanatical religion instructs them to reject us, hate us and kill us, and who breed like rabbits and cost us tens of billions of dollars in welfare payments because they don’t have the language skills, the work skills, or the desire to integrate. 
Considering our close relationship with the United States, particularly their significant military presence in northern Australia, I really don’t think we have too much to worry about in terms of a hostile external security threat from our Islamic Asian neighbors.
But we have plenty to worry about from the internal security threat posed by the masses of Muslims we’re allowing to come into our country. Already we’ve seen a major Islamic terrorist plot against one of our military bases, which fortunately was intercepted before it could be carried out. The culprits are now in jail, but we’d be naÃ¯ve to think that will be the end of the terror plots against us.

The federal government recently announced that billions of dollars would be cut from our defense budget. Just think of how much additional money would be available to boost our military capability and our security if we eliminated the tens of billions of dollars we now spend on the boat people problem, and if we stopped dishing out billions in foreign aid to Islamic countries like Indonesia.


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## bunyip (28 May 2013)

I wonder which of our brilliant political minds decided to sign us up to the UN Refugee Convention? I’ve believed for a long time that our membership of this organization, and the obligation that goes with it, is nothing but a drain on our resources, for no appreciable benefit to us. Anyone with a bit of common sense can see that the numbers of refugees we’re taking in is unsustainable, given that a large percentage of them lack the language and work skills to make a decent contribution to our country.
About a year ago the Australian Immigration Department estimated that approximately 5500 asylum seekers would come here by boat in the financial year ending 30/6/13. This same department has just released figures showing that in the last 11 months more than 22.5 thousand have come (more than four times the estimate), and they predict that another 2500 will arrive before the end of the financial year a little over a month from now.

I’d like to see the end of the UN refugee convention before Australia is bankrupt from the financial burden of honoring our obligations as members of this outdated organization.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...fugee-convention/story-e6frgd0x-1226634223906


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## bunyip (28 May 2013)

Opinion
Ditch the UN Refugee Convention

    by: Adrienne Millbank
    From: The Australian
    May 03, 2013 12:00AM



ONCE again Australia's offshore (Nauru and Manus Island) and onshore processing centres are swamped and we are confronted with images of distressed asylum-seekers self-harming, lip-sewing and hunger-striking. Such images are jarring and confusing in a country of migration where new arrivals are supposed to be welcomed as equals.

Australia's border protection efforts and their appalling effects do not reflect a country that has turned its back on migrants and refugees; they reflect an asylum system that is crumbling under its own outrageous costs and contradictions. The problem with the 1951 UN Convention relating to the Status of Refugees is that it legitimises unregulated entry. And unregulated inflows of economic migrants and asylum-seekers are anathema to managed migration and refugee resettlement.

Australia may be approaching a tipping point in its always uneasy relationship with the refugee convention. The Howard-era border protection policies, reinstated by the Labor government in desperation after it had abolished them, are not working. Nor are measures recommended by the hastily convened expert panel to which the Prime Minister, in even greater desperation, abrogated responsibility. Indeed, the expansion of the humanitarian program to 20,000 places is encouraging more asylum-seekers.
Last year, more than 17,000 asylum-seekers arrived. More than 30,000 are projected for this year. Our offshore humanitarian migration program has been overwhelmed. This is not good for the 70,000 to 90,000 refugees the UN High Commissioner for Refugees identifies each year as most in need of third-country resettlement. As former immigration minister Chris Bowen pointed out, Australia, the US and Canada are the only significant resettlement countries.Without us, there is no hope. At least 1000 people have drowned at sea.

This is not the legacy Labor intended when it came to office in 2007. It wanted to cement a reputation as more compassionate than the Howard government. When it unwound deterrence measures built up across 20 years, it never intended to welcome larger numbers of asylum-seekers. The boats had stopped coming and, hoping to keep things that way, Labor increased expenditure on border protection to record levels. It miscalculated.

Using the refugee convention to score political points was ill-advised. The domestic politics of asylum are toxic and divisive. Advocates think voters need to be better educated about signatory states' obligations. A growing number of voters think the refugee convention is past its use-by date. Australians see how European countries struggle to integrate large, unplanned inflows of economic migrants and refugees. Familiar with managed humanitarian migration, they see how the refugee convention advantages people on the basis of their capacity to pay, and to play the system, over refugees in greater need.

Australian voters also see the commonwealth budget has blown out by billions of dollars, trying to keep boatpeople out, rescuing, detaining and processing those who manage to get in. They think better things could be done with this money: improved disability services for Australian residents, perhaps, as well as helping more needy refugees.

The credibility of the Labor government is destroyed, and a clear majority favour the Coalition on this issue. The opposition, however, offers only a return to measures that seem less likely to succeed the second time around and with larger numbers. It offers the depressing prospect of a lengthy, gruelling period of escalating toughness. Temporary protection visas are a weak deterrent. Not all boats will be turned around. And even if offshore processing does slow boat arrivals, transporting asylum-seekers to impoverished islands and caring for them at immense cost before, in all probability, issuing them with resident visas is ridiculous.

The legacy of the Rudd and Gillard policy failures could be that it is no longer possible to return to the halfway solutions that worked in the past. The costs of pretending to uphold obligations under the refugee convention, at least in the way they presently are interpreted, have become too high.

As a country of migration, Australia needs its refugee policy to be sensible, morally defensible and well regulated.

We may have reached the point where the country's legal obligations need to be brought into line with public expectations that the government will control the borders and that migration will be managed. It is time to rethink dubious international obligations and to argue Australia's case. Australia should require asylum-seekers wanting to settle in this country to apply for a refugee or humanitarian visa offshore, through our overseas posts or the UNHCR.

Adrienne Millbank, a researcher at Monash University, appears in State of the Nation: Aspects of Public Policy, published by Connor Court this week.


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## noco (28 May 2013)

Why is Dreyfus, the ABC and SBS afraid of in telling the whole story of the riots and killings by Muslems.

It will happen here in Australia very shortly. Mark my words.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...stead-of-honesty/story-fni0ffxg-1226650915387


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## sptrawler (28 May 2013)

Jeez bunyip, what were you trying to say, I fell asleep three times reading it. Sorry


----------



## qldfrog (29 May 2013)

noco said:


> Why is Dreyfus, the ABC and SBS afraid of in telling the whole story of the riots and killings by Muslems.
> 
> It will happen here in Australia very shortly. Mark my words.
> 
> ...



I wish I could be wrong  but sadly I agree with you.
Australia is a lamb waiting for slaughter....


----------



## Calliope (29 May 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez bunyip, what were you trying to say, I fell asleep three times reading it. Sorry




Keep up the good work bunyip. Your posts are very enlightening.


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## bunyip (29 May 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez bunyip, what were you trying to say, I fell asleep three times reading it. Sorry



Yes, that article was a bit long, wasn’t it!

I was simply trying to point out that our membership of the UN Refugee Convention is an obstruction to us managing the illegal refugee problem. Under the terms of that convention we have an obligation to take refugees seeking asylum in our country. I don’t know how many we’re obliged to take, but I’d be pretty sure it wouldn’t be anywhere near the figure that are now arriving en masse on illegal boats.
Nevertheless, I don’t think we should have an obligation to take any at all. I’m not saying we should take no refugees, but to have someone else telling us what to do by deciding how many asylum seekers we should take.....well, it’s just not on in my opinion. 
As a country we should be making our own decisions in regard to this issue, and our decisions should be based on such factors as do we need them, can we afford them at present, and what sort of people should we take if we decide to take any at all.
Common sense should dictate that we take only people who have the language and work skills to contribute immediately to our economy, people who don't pose a security risk, people who embrace our values and our lifestyle, and have the desire to integrate readily in our society.
We shouldn’t be cow-towing to the refugee convention or anyone else.


----------



## qldfrog (29 May 2013)

an interesting article
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/i-was-a-radical-islamist-who-hated-all-of-you/story-e6freon6-1226652515525
Not really irrelevant with our own australian immigration but interesting regarding Europe.


----------



## CanOz (29 May 2013)

qldfrog said:


> an interesting article
> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/i-was-a-radical-islamist-who-hated-all-of-you/story-e6freon6-1226652515525
> Not really irrelevant with our own australian immigration but interesting regarding Europe.




thanks for that article Froggy...

Can we clone this nice young lad?


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## DB008 (29 May 2013)

Saw this meme. Found it appropriate.


----------



## Julia (29 May 2013)

Yet has been the butt of abuse and jokes for as long as I can remember.


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## Boggo (29 May 2013)

THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

They're not happy in Gaza ..
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ..
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ..
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ..
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada .
They're happy in England ..
They're happy in France ..
They're happy in Italy ..
They're happy in Germany ..
They're happy in Sweden ..
They're happy in the USA ..
They're happy in Norway ..
They're happy in Holland .
They're happy in Denmark .

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim and unhappy in every country that is!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?

Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.

THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!

AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like.... THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!

Excuse me, but I can't help wondering... How damn dumb can you get?


----------



## sptrawler (29 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Yes, that article was a bit long, wasn’t it!
> 
> I was simply trying to point out that our membership of the UN Refugee Convention is an obstruction to us managing the illegal refugee problem. Under the terms of that convention we have an obligation to take refugees seeking asylum in our country. I don’t know how many we’re obliged to take, but I’d be pretty sure it wouldn’t be anywhere near the figure that are now arriving en masse on illegal boats.
> Nevertheless, I don’t think we should have an obligation to take any at all. I’m not saying we should take no refugees, but to have someone else telling us what to do by deciding how many asylum seekers we should take.....well, it’s just not on in my opinion.
> ...




Agree 100%. Thanks for the condensed version.


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## jancha (29 May 2013)

Boggo said:


> THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!
> 
> They're not happy in Gaza ..
> They're not happy in Egypt ..
> ...





How true
Nearly as dumb as the governments soft approach to the boat people entering. Turn the boats back and see how many will keep jumping the queue and risk coming over. I feel sorry for the residents who been invaded by them due to the overflow from asylum compounds. I would say the real-estate would have fallen just about as quickly as MAD shares. lol


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## CanOz (29 May 2013)

Boggo said:


> THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!
> 
> They're not happy in Gaza ..
> They're not happy in Egypt ..
> ...





Did you come up with this yourself Boggo?

This is GOLD!


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## Boggo (29 May 2013)

CanOz said:


> Did you come up with this yourself Boggo?
> 
> This is GOLD!




No I didn't, I have toned it down a bit though !


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## Boggo (29 May 2013)

jancha said:


> How true
> Nearly as dumb as the governments soft approach to the boat people entering. Turn the boats back and see how many will keep jumping the queue and risk coming over. I feel sorry for the residents who been invaded by them due to the overflow from asylum compounds. I would say the real-estate would have fallen just about as quickly as MAD shares. lol




Flamin heck, I have to actually agree with jancha 

How about the army families getting moved out of their homes at Inverbrackie in the Adelaide hills and being put in portable accommodation while the asylum seekers have been moved into their accomodation - lunacy.

This was when Julia did just that in 2010 !
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...on-centre-for-sa/story-e6frea83-1225940182833


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## DB008 (30 May 2013)

BBC 

*Suspect 'admits soldier knife attack in Paris'*



> A 21-year-old suspect arrested earlier over the stabbing of a French soldier near Paris on Saturday has admitted to the crime, officials say.
> 
> The man, named only as Alexandre, was a convert to Islam who had "wanted to attack a representative of the state", Prosecutor Francois Molins said.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22699156


----------



## DB008 (30 May 2013)

*Ayaan Hirsi Ali: The Problem of Muslim Leadership*

By AYAAN HIRSI ALI



> Another Islamist terror attack, another round of assurances that it had nothing to do with the religion of peace.
> 
> I've seen this before. A Muslim terrorist slays a non-Muslim citizen in the West, and representatives of the Muslim community rush to dissociate themselves and their faith from the horror. After British soldier Lee Rigby was hacked to death last week in Woolwich in south London, Julie Siddiqi, representing the Islamic Society of Britain, quickly stepped before the microphones to attest that all good Muslims were "sickened" by the attack, "just like everyone else."
> 
> ...




*Sounds like the BBC is like the ABC here in Oz.*



> Some refuse even to admit that this is the question on everyone's mind. Amazingly, given the litany of Islamist attacks””from the 9/11 nightmare in America and the London bombings of July 7, 2005, to the slayings at Fort Hood in Texas in 2009, at the Boston Marathon last month and now Woolwich””some continue to deny any link between Islam and terrorism. This week, BBC political editor Nick Robinson had to apologize for saying on the air, as the news in Woolwich broke, that the men who murdered Lee Rigby were "of Muslim appearance."
> 
> Memo to the BBC: The killers were shouting "Allahu akbar" as they struck. Yet when complaints rained down on the BBC about Mr. Robinson's word choice, he felt obliged to atone. One can only wonder at people who can be so exquisitely sensitive in protecting Islam's reputation yet so utterly desensitized to a hideous murder explicitly committed in the name of Islam.




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323475304578503613890263762.html?mod=wsj_valetbottom_email


----------



## bunyip (30 May 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Agree 100%. Thanks for the condensed version.




SP....You do realize that I didn’t write that article?
First I put up the link to it, but then found that it couldn’t be read from that link. So then I copied and pasted the entire article because I thought it contained a lot of good information and opinions relevant to our immigration problem.


----------



## bunyip (30 May 2013)

noco said:


> Why is Dreyfus, the ABC and SBS afraid of in telling the whole story of the riots and killings by Muslems.
> 
> It will happen here in Australia very shortly. Mark my words.
> 
> ...




Two reasons.
Firstly, Dreyfus is a member of the ALP governmnt, and as such he doesn't want to speak any truths that show Labor in a bad light. 

Secondly, as Attorney General he'd be pulling a big salary of probably a couple of hundred grand a year at a minimum. No way in the world is he going to say anything that might get him demoted.


----------



## bunyip (30 May 2013)

Boggo said:


> THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!
> 
> They're not happy in Gaza ..
> They're not happy in Egypt ..
> ...




I’ve often wondered the same thing myself.
Their country and their religion have given them a miserable and unhappy life. To escape their intolerable situation they travel to the far side of the world, sometimes at great risk to themselves, for a new start in a free country. 
Then rather than embrace the freedom and wonderful lifestyle and opportunities in their adopted country, they proceed to turn it into a carbon copy of the country and the intolerable life they left behind.

You really do have to wonder at the intelligence level of these people.
Here’s a link that might throw some light on the subject.

http://action.afa.net/blogs/blogpost.aspx?id=2147498193


----------



## Knobby22 (30 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Two reasons.
> Firstly, Dreyfus is a member of the ALP governmnt, and as such he doesn't want to speak any truths that show Labor in a bad light.
> 
> Secondly, as Attorney General he'd be pulling a big salary of probably a couple of hundred grand a year at a minimum. No way in the world is he going to say anything that might get him demoted.




Bunyip

The answer is not to alienate a section of the community. That just makes things worse.
You have second generation Australians who are treated as outsiders. This creates the problem.
You crap on about Labor but tell me when a Liberal politician has failed to be inclusive.  
If we create a second class citizen based on religion, we are bound to see unrest.


----------



## boofis (30 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Bunyip
> 
> This creates the problem.




You cannot be serious? After all the evidence given you are making the statement that it is because they are being alienated that these ridiculous crimes are being committed


----------



## Calliope (30 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> If we create a second class citizen based on religion, we are bound to see unrest.




What makes you think that these second class citizens are our creation? If you had read bunyip's link you might realise that years of inbreeding have made them a separate and "second class" community.


----------



## Knobby22 (30 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> What makes you think that these second class citizens are our creation? If you had read bunyip's link you might realise that years of inbreeding have made them a separate and "second class" community.




Inbred indeed!! They are here now and Australian citizens. If we treat them and talk of them as you just did, of course they will fell alienated! ...unable to get good jobs, being called names by people. That will breed terrorists for sure, just as it has in Britain and they will be home grown with chips on their shoulders.

The plan is that they join society and feel part of it. Of course there religion limits this somewhat just as it does with the Jewish community, however you can't say the Jews haven't managed to become part of society.

As I said before, it is important that assimilation occurs and having a large Muslim community won't assist this. We can't exclude people entering the country due to their religion so my answer is slow immigration. Simple. It is Liberal policy to increase immigration.


----------



## bunyip (30 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Bunyip
> 
> The answer is not to alienate a section of the community. That just makes things worse.
> You have second generation Australians who are treated as outsiders. This creates the problem.
> ...




Muslims alienate *themselves* by deliberately keeping mainstream Australian society at a distance. They've done the same in Britain and in every other country they’ve moved into. You see droves of Muslims in Brisbane, but how many of them did you see among the tens of thousands of volunteers who helped clean up Brisbane after the floods in January of 2011?
How many Muslims do you think you’d see among the Australians and other nationalities if you went into the lunch room at the meatworks in my area? I’ve never been to the meatworks, but a friend of mine who works there as a security officer tells me the Muslim employees have demanded and been given their own toilet block and lunch room, which non Muslims are not allowed to use.

Australians are inclusive of foreigners provided those foreigners willingly accept our Australian values, ideals, and way of life. Muslims don’t do that.
My wife is a foreigner – she’s never had any trouble fitting into this country and being accepted by Aussies. But she has a very different attitude to what these Muslims have.
Muslims need to change their attitude if they want to be accepted in this or any other country.

As for me ‘crapping on about Labor’.......all my criticism of Labor is accurate and completely justified. If the Libs win office and display a similar level of incompetence to that displayed by Labor, I’ll be critical of them too.


----------



## Calliope (30 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Inbred indeed!!
> 
> The plan is that they join society and feel part of it. Of course there religion limits this somewhat just as it does with the Jewish community, however you can't say the Jews haven't managed to become part of society.




That's because Jews adapt to Western culture more readily than Muslims, and they are no more likely to inbreed than the rest of the community.



> As I said before, it is important that assimilation occurs and having a large Muslim community won't assist this. We can't exclude people entering the country due to their religion so my answer is slow immigration. Simple. It is Liberal policy to increase immigration.




Last time I looked the Liberals were opposed to the hordes of Muslims trying to enter the country illegally, and their policy is to send them back. They certainly support a more balanced immigration program and not one stacked in support of Islamisation.


----------



## Knobby22 (30 May 2013)

The Jews were all inbred as you so diplomatically call it. As they have merged with society they younger people have not wanted the restrictions of their elders. Catholics used to only marry Catholics. Times change.

You didn't look very hard re: liberal policy.
I know that you know the boat people only make up a tiny percentage of immigration.
1 in every 2 people in Australia either has at least one immigrant parent or is an immigrant themselves. They didn't come by boat. This is probably true of people on this website.

The immigration rate increased 3 times when the Libs were in last. I gave you the graphs. Immigration will rise under the Liberals again therefore Muslim immigration will rise under the Libs. It is not Liberal policy to limit people coming from Muslim countries for the reasons expounded earlier.

I'd wager you on it.


----------



## Calliope (30 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> The Jews were all inbred as you so diplomatically call it.



Huh?



> I know that you know the boat people only make up a tiny percentage of immigration.




Tiny??? It's about time you gave up this hoary old chestnut.

Julia Gillard and Labor have set another shameful record of failure on our borders with more than 40,000 people having arrived in Australia on illegal boats on their watch, including more than 20,000 this financial year.



> The immigration rate increased 3 times when the Libs were in last. I gave you the graphs. Immigration will rise under the Liberals again therefore Muslim immigration will rise under the Libs. It is not Liberal policy to limit people coming from Muslim countries for the reasons expounded earlier.




You are only raising red herrings. This thread is about Muslim invasion. The large (not tiny) numbers sneaking in the back door with Labor/Greens and *your* blessing are predominantly Islamists.



> I'd wager you on it.




Don't bet your reputation on it.


----------



## Knobby22 (30 May 2013)

Calliope said:


> Don't bet your reputation on it.




Nor yours. I've said enough.


----------



## Boggo (30 May 2013)

bunyip said:


> Muslims alienate *themselves* by deliberately keeping mainstream Australian society at a distance. They've done the same in Britain and in every other country they’ve moved into. You see droves of Muslims in Brisbane, but how many of them did you see among the tens of thousands of volunteers who helped clean up Brisbane after the floods in January of 2011?
> How many Muslims do you think you’d see among the Australians and other nationalities if you went into the lunch room at the meatworks in my area? I’ve never been to the meatworks, but a friend of mine who works there as a security officer tells me the Muslim employees have demanded and been given their own toilet block and lunch room, which non Muslims are not allowed to use.




They have not shown and I doubt if they will ever show any sign of integration unfortunately (for them or us ?).

I was in the waiting room of the radiology section of Flinders Medical Centre last Monday with my wife. There was three or four others waiting there too.
A family likely to be of extraction of that being discussed came out of the side door, a husband, wife and a small girl of about five years old. The only part of the wife that was visible was her eyes and as they walked through the little girl started saying bye bye and waving at us.
I think all of us waved back and said bye bye together at about the same time that her father grabbed her by the arm and physically swung her out the door in front of him as he looked back with a look that we all agreed was threatening.

This poor little kid was all smiles and just being friendly, what sort of indoctrination is she going to be subjected to as she grows up and what chance will she ever have of fitting in even if she wanted to.

FIFO I say, and I don't mean Fly In Fly Out either.

Interesting too...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-churches-just-yards-overcrowded-mosque.html


----------



## bunyip (30 May 2013)

Boggo said:


> They have not shown and I doubt if they will ever show any sign of integration unfortunately (for them or us ?).
> 
> I was in the waiting room of the radiology section of Flinders Medical Centre last Monday with my wife. There was three or four others waiting there too.
> A family likely to be of extraction of that being discussed came out of the side door, a husband, wife and a small girl of about five years old. The only part of the wife that was visible was her eyes and as they walked through the little girl started saying bye bye and waving at us.
> ...




The gall of you infidels – fancy thinking you were good enough to be friendly to a little Muslim child!!


----------



## jancha (30 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Nor yours. I've said enough.




Always good to hear the other side to a debate Knobby even if your on your own.
You simply don't get the fact that for most they don't wish to mix and be part of AUSTRALIA as AUSTRALIANS.
Even when you visit another country you respect their ways and law.   
There would be more aussie than not who would welcome them if they tried to fit in.
Try and live over there as an Australian and see how you would be treated. Kiss your girlfriend on the cheek in public. Enough of the bleeding hearts.


----------



## Joe Blow (31 May 2013)

While I understand that there are some strong opinions on this topic, and people have a right to have their say, I think some of the derogatory terms and generalisations that are being thrown around are perhaps a little over the top.



> The only reason Indonesia would be unhappy about us turning back the boats is because they don't want *these parasites* in their country.






> What makes you think that these *second class citizens* are our creation?






> and who *breed like rabbits* and cost us tens of billions of dollars in welfare payments




Religious fanaticism, illegal immigration and multiculturalism are serious issues that deserves discussion, but at the same time I think that some of the rhetoric and inflammatory language could be toned down a notch of two.


----------



## Lantern (31 May 2013)

A bit of an eye opener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN62a683ibw


----------



## Boggo (31 May 2013)

Survey


----------



## dutchie (31 May 2013)

Boggo said:


> Survey






LOL 
Very clever.


----------



## aarbee (31 May 2013)

It is extremely important to understand what drives these people to do what they do and behave as they behave.
There are some very interesting and thought provoking articles on the following websites
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://alisina.org/
A good introduction is on http://alisina.org/about-ali-sina/
Cheers


----------



## bunyip (31 May 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqvskXCz-kk


The woman in this link really gives it to the mulsim bloke she's debating. He has no defence against the truth she speaks.

She is herself a former muslim. Clearly she’s a woman of immense character. She now gets death threats.


----------



## DB008 (1 June 2013)

Anyone surprised?


*French prosecutor: ‘Radical Muslim’ suspect admits to stabbing soldier*



> A suspect arrested Wednesday has admitted to the weekend stabbing of a French soldier in Paris and was probably acting based on his “religious ideology,” Paris prosecutor Xavier Molins tells AFP news agency.
> 
> Molins said the man, named Alexandre and who turns 22 on Thursday, had converted to Islam and was known to police after undergoing an identity check in 2007 for praying on the street.
> “The suspected perpetrator of the attack on a soldier Saturday evening in La Defense (business district) was arrested this morning,” Interior Minister Manuel Valls said in a statement, reported AFP.
> ...




http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2013/05/29/Police-arrest-radical-Muslim-over-French-soldier-s-stabbing-.html


----------



## IFocus (1 June 2013)

One thing missing from this discussion............a actual Muslim.

I personally agree  with much of the sentiment in thread but having known many Iranians (highly educated and thought full people) some of the common assertions made here are plainly ignorant and just stupid to the level Hitler used against the Jews in pre WW11.

There are and will be issues around the current flood of Muslims into Australia but you really need to get out and understand not all are the same.


----------



## MrBurns (1 June 2013)

IFocus said:


> One thing missing from this discussion............a actual Muslim.
> 
> I personally agree  with much of the sentiment in thread but having known many Iranians (highly educated and thought full people) some of the common assertions made here are plainly ignorant and just stupid to the level Hitler used against the Jews in pre WW11.
> 
> There are and will be issues around the current flood of Muslims into Australia but you really need to get out and understand not all are the same.




Good point it may be because there's no input from them...


----------



## DB008 (1 June 2013)

Bending over and showing tolerance to the intolerant.....what a joke.

*Islam cartoon pulled from student newspaper website*




> Australian National University vice-chancellor Ian Young says a cartoon published in a student newspaper satirising Islam overstepped the mark.
> 
> The student newspaper Woroni originally published the cartoon as part of its 'Advice from Religion' infographic.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/islam-cartoon-pulled-from-student-newspaper-website/4714952


----------



## MARKETWINNER (1 June 2013)

_Today because of the atrocities that have been done and are still continuing in the name of the religion, many people have become disillusioned at the mention of the very word,“religion”. Materialism, hypocrisy and fanaticism covered under the guise of religion have caused the greatest disaster in the history of mankind.

The true religious values are rapidly disappearing from the minds of men as they run in search of the occult and the mystical. The established great religions of the world are breaking into discrimination of forms and some people are even going all out to ridicule religion. The time has come for all religionists of today to get together to introduce religious values in their proper perspective, instead of merely arguing and quarrelling over the differences of religious ideologies and mythologies.

Killing any person or animal is not a good thing.

When we analyse history throughout the world there had been killing due to difference in opinion or religion. In some situation they have killed their own people due to small difference in their beliefs.

Today we live in a civilized world. Still few are not like to listen to others and they always think they are right and others have to follow them. One of the main reason is they cannot understand their religion properly. True followers in any religion will respect others, will not kill others, will not humiliate others, will care society they live will try to live peacefully and will try to build harmony with followers of all types of religions.

There are true followers in every religion. I love them. Because they are kind, polite, respect others and their cultures, they don’t kill people, don’t destroy property of other religious people, they don’t have any jealousy on success of others, they live peacefully, their mind is so pure, they contribute society productively and help others.

In short global policy makers should take common action to stop harassing others on ethnical basis or religious basis and should take tough action on spreading violent activities thought out the world._


----------



## DB008 (2 June 2013)

bunyip said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqvskXCz-kk
> 
> 
> The woman in this link really gives it to the mulsim bloke she's debating. He has no defence against the truth she speaks.
> ...




Part II


----------



## DB008 (5 June 2013)

60 minutes is doing a story this Sunday regarding this very issue.


----------



## MrBurns (5 June 2013)

DB008 said:


> 60 minutes is doing a story this Sunday regarding this very issue.




Good I hope they don't hold back.


----------



## CanOz (5 June 2013)

DB008 said:


> 60 minutes is doing a story this Sunday regarding this very issue.




Thanks DB and Bunyip, a glimmer of hope....trust it to come from a woman, the men have too much to gain from Islam, and the women too little.

CanOz


----------



## bunyip (6 June 2013)

IFocus said:


> One thing missing from this discussion............a actual Muslim.



I’d be delighted if a Muslim or two would join our discussion by answering/addressing some of the opinions and issues that have been raised in here.
Not only are Muslims missing from this discussion, but they’re missing from many other areas as well. For example, you’d have to look long and hard before you'd find Muslims among a group of volunteers cleaning up after a natural disaster such as the Brisbane floods of 2011, and you’d be hard pressed to find them involved in agricultural show committees, rodeo committees, community service clubs, historical societies, meals on wheels, or pretty much any of the clubs, organizations and charities that enhance our quality of life in this great country.

Now why is that, I wonder? Maybe the answer can be found in  their holy book, the Koran, which specifically instructs them to not to associate with infidels (non Muslims). In fact it actually goes much further by telling them to hate and kill infidels. Of course, most Muslims have the sense not to go around killing people, but pretty much all of them do have this attitude of keeping non Muslims at a distance and not getting involved with them.



IFocus said:


> some of the common assertions made here are plainly ignorant and just stupid to the level Hitler used against the Jews in pre WW11.



Can you elaborate?



IFocus said:


> There are and will be issues around the current flood of Muslims into Australia but you really need to get out and understand not all are the same.



I agree, not all Muslims are the same, just as  people within any other religion are not all carbon copies of each other. But Muslims in general do have this attitude that we and our ways and our values are not good enough for them. And while they persist in that attitude, they'll continue to be incompatible with mainstream Australian society.


----------



## CanOz (6 June 2013)

Muslims are not the problem, Islam is. 

Lots of good videos on YT on this....check out the son of the founder of Hammas. Cant post the videos but he has turned Christian and moved to the US and is denouncing the Koran.

Someone please post a few videos of him please, he really is quite inspirational, very courageous.

CanOz


----------



## Paul Woodward (6 June 2013)

Muslims, like all religions are belief systems based in fear. It's this fear that determines the actions that are being taken and unfortunately there are some extreme actions being taken by some religions even Christianity. After all, its proven that using a condom is the best way of spreading HIV, so why then does the pope continue to ban the use of condoms.


----------



## boofis (6 June 2013)

Paul Woodward said:


> After all, it proven that using a condom is the best way of spreading HIV, so why then does the pope continue to use condoms.




   ???


----------



## jancha (6 June 2013)

Paul Woodward said:


> Muslims, like all religions are belief systems based in fear. It's this fear that determines the actions that are being taken and unfortunately there are some extreme actions being taken by some religions even Christianity. After all, its proven that using a condom is the best way of spreading HIV, so why then does the pope continue to ban the use of condoms.




Speaking from experience?


----------



## dutchie (6 June 2013)

boofis said:


> ???





Think there should be a 







before the word 'spreading'


----------



## Knobby22 (6 June 2013)

Didn't know the pope wore condoms either.


----------



## bunyip (7 June 2013)

MARKETWINNER said:


> True followers in any religion will respect others, will not kill others, will not humiliate others, will care society they live will try to live peacefully and will try to build harmony with followers of all types of religions.




Really??
That may be the case in most religions. But not in the Islamic religion. 
The Koran specifically instructs Muslims to have nothing to do with non-Muslims.  From my observation, the overwhelming majority of Muslims take this instruction seriously.

But the Koran goes much further by instructing Muslims to hate and kill those who are not of the Islamic faith. The true followers of Islam are the extemeists who take this advice seriously enough to act upon it. Fortunately they're in the minority. But it's the minorities that are always the problem.

Those who ignore the hate and kill instruction are, to their credit, showing enough character and common sense to reject this particularly poisonous aspect of the Islamic religion.


----------



## CanOz (7 June 2013)

Events in Turkey could be a line in a sand for moderate Muslims vs the hardline fundamentalists....

Watching how this plays out, on the protestors side of course

CanOz


----------



## bunyip (7 June 2013)

Sent to me by a friend.

*Tolerance*

I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Sydney. 
I think it should be the goal of every Australian to be tolerant. 

Thus the Mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.
That is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque, thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque. 

We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, "The Turban Cowboy ", and the other a topless bar called "You Mecca Me Hot."

Next door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork, and adjacent to that an open-pit barbeque pork restaurant, called "Iraq o' Ribs."

Across the street there could be a lingerie store called "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret ", with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods. 
Next door to the lingerie shop there would be room for an adult sex toy shop, "Koranal Knowledge ", its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other side a liquor store called "Morehammered." 
All of this would encourage the Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us, so the mosque problem would be solved.


----------



## CanOz (7 June 2013)

bunyip said:


> Sent to me by a friend.
> 
> *Tolerance*
> 
> ...




Brilliant


----------



## Calliope (8 June 2013)

The most damaging Rudd/Gillard legacy will be the Islamisation of Australia! And it is happening, although the vast majority of Australians oppose this invasion. Turfing out Gillard won't fix it. She has already caused irreversible damage to orderly (legal) immigration.



> Assume that 40,000 of those who have arrived so far are Muslims, mostly low skilled and with limited English. Assume that eventually they will all stay in Australia, which is the only rational assumption if policy doesn’t change radically. Then assume that, on a very conservative basis, each is responsible, eventually, for one family reunion immigrant, whether a spouse, fiance, parent or sibling. *That is a cohort, so far, of 80,000 low-skilled Muslims with poor English predominantly from countries that have the most radical and extreme jihadist traditions in the world…
> The Immigration Department’s figures, released last year, revealed that five years after arrival the rate of employment - not unemployment but employment - of Afghans was 9 per cent, while 94 per cent of Afghan households received Centrelink payments. From Iraq, 12 per cent were employed while 93 per cent of families received Centrelink payments. Overall, households that came under the humanitarian program had 85 per cent receiving Centrelink payments after five years…*




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...onstrous-problem/story-e6frg6n6-1226659596004


----------



## bellenuit (8 June 2013)

A British Muslim willing to speak the truth.....

*Why we Muslims just don't get it*

http://leedsisoc.com/blog/201305/why-we-muslims-just-dont-get


----------



## MrBurns (8 June 2013)

CanOz said:


> Brilliant




Indeed it is and passed around.........."you Mecca me hot"


----------



## DB008 (8 June 2013)

bellenuit said:


> A British Muslim willing to speak the truth.....
> 
> *Why we Muslims just don't get it*
> 
> http://leedsisoc.com/blog/201305/why-we-muslims-just-dont-get




I liked this bit


> We're a bunch of hypocrites. We want all the benefits of living in a liberal democracy without any of the responsibilities or sacrifices. This couldn't have been illustrated any better than during the debate about gay marriage, where you had near universal condemnation of the bill from Muslims[5]. We strongly condemn any government attempt to interfere in our private affairs by banning us from wearing a hijab or a niqab, but we have no problem telling the government to interfere in the private affairs of others by preventing them from getting married. Seriously, how does two gay people getting married negatively affect the rest of us in any way?[6]


----------



## NewbieNSX (8 June 2013)

The Quran doesnt say we are allowed to kill christians or non - muslims, the book should be read in context as that chapter may be a battle or war chapter. In regards to conforming to Australian standards (way of life) we dont accept as many of you wont accept how we live, and not to forget the racism that has been here for hundreds of years. How long ago did Australia have a white australia policy??? we can all sit here and point at each other or just get along somehow. 

There will be differences with all people , let alone brothers and sisters. So if your aspiring for a culture of ours with hundreds of thousands of years of history to change the minute the plane lands, your being unrealistic. 

What happened in britain with the beheadng was not right, but when british / us allies etc go to muslim countries (i.e afghanistan, iraq) and slaughter 240,000 people this doesnt seem to be on the news or an issue to anybody, hey there just muslims right? well then dont expect aftermaths. I think what happened in britain with that behaeading is the tip of a huge iceberg, imagine australians or brits getting slaughtered in the hundreds of thousands? what would you do ? 

I know people who get shot and killed for stupidest reasons (as we have all seen the bikie wars) so imagine you were a muslim living in a country that kills your people, then treats you in the country you were born in as a stranger and disciminate against you, dont expect things to roll smooth for you. One thing I beelive in is all humans are equal and deserve equality, maybe its cos i was born here and indoctrined with the whole "fight for the underdog , Aussie way" or maybe its cos im a muslim and my parents and family beleive this and taught me so, or maybe its just both and really at the end of the day we are all humans and all bleed and hurt the same. 

I was born here and dated various races of women, Ill tell you this Australian (causcasian) people are very nice and actually good, but the problem why many of you believe muslims, or arabs are so F**ked is cos you guys are very gullible unfortunately, not all but most.. If you see a meat cleaver on tv with blood that gets brainwashed into your head, I suggest you see whats happening to muslims overseas and then reconsider weather its fair, follow this link to youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udCb_yAWm7U


----------



## Calliope (8 June 2013)

I had prepared a reasoned response to this post, but then I thought what the hell... whats the use? This guy who puts his culture before his citizenship is not for turning.


----------



## DB008 (8 June 2013)

Looks like the Dutch have had enough.




> *Dutch Poll: Most Say Stop Islamic Immigration*
> 
> In the Netherlands, a new de Hond poll -- the Dutch equivalent of a Gallup poll – showed that more than three quarters of the Dutch (77 %) believe that Islam is no enrichment for their country. More than two-thirds  (68 %), say that there is enough Islam in the Netherlands.
> 
> ...






Channel 7's 'Sunday' program tomorrow night

*Preview: Violence on the streets*



> The world was shocked when fundamentalists murdered a British soldier on a London street recently. Could the same thing happen here in Australia?




http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/watch/17485426/preview-violence-on-the-streets/


I also noticed on Facebook that there is a 'ADL' (Australian Defence League) - popped up on my newsfeed.


----------



## sptrawler (8 June 2013)

DB008 said:


> Looks like the Dutch have had enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Obviously the Dutch need a dose of Christine Milne, Bob Brown and Julia Gillard. How dare they say they don't want Islam shoved down their throats.
What's wrong with them? they must be mysomething or other, there must be a word for it. Anyway Julia will know the word for it.


----------



## dutchie (9 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Obviously the Dutch need a dose of Christine Milne, Bob Brown and Julia Gillard. How dare they say they don't want Islam shoved down their throats.




"Why are people so unkind"

(no one deserves that)


----------



## NewbieNSX (9 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> I had prepared a reasoned response to this post, but then I thought what the hell... whats the use? This guy who puts his culture before his citizenship is not for turning.




How about both? one must never forget there culture IF THEY HAVE ONE THAT IS, and one must also respect the country they live in and its laws, oh by the way this is not just me saying this, this is what it says in the Quran.

Its always been a balance between nature/nurture. Your culture is also something to hold onto


----------



## qldfrog (9 June 2013)

NewbieNSX said:


> How about both? one must never forget there culture IF THEY HAVE ONE THAT IS, and one must also respect the country they live in and its laws, oh by the way this is not just me saying this, this is what it says in the Quran.
> 
> Its always been a balance between nature/nurture. Your culture is also something to hold onto



I tend to disagree strongly: 
I was not born here did not speak english, but I agree to loose all apparent non oz sign in public : that is part of the deal.
But I am not muslim


----------



## Calliope (9 June 2013)

NewbieNSX said:


> How about both? one must never forget there culture IF THEY HAVE ONE THAT IS, and one must also respect the country they live in and its laws, oh by the way this is not just me saying this, this is what it says in the Quran.




I doubt that the Koran says that. If it does, then most Islamists completely ignore it. The Mullah's insist on Sharia law in the countries they are invading.

You do not say whether you prefer our laws in preference to Sharia law. But you do say that you support retribution in your adopted country for Muslims and Muslim terrorists killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.  You do not seem concerned about Muslims killing each other by the thousands in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.


----------



## NewbieNSX (9 June 2013)

qldfrog said:


> I tend to disagree strongly:
> I was not born here did not speak english, but I agree to loose all apparent non oz sign in public : that is part of the deal.
> But I am not muslim




thats entirely a choice for yourself really and not an Australian or way of thinking I have come across 32 years in this country.No being muslim has actually nothing to do with holding onto ones values / cultures.  Oh who or where is this deal lol? sounds like a scam. 

Gay marriage is coming soon too lol i bet you agree to that to right? ill tell you anuses werent created for penetrating or inserting anything up there, lol but wait one must agree to a countries ideas and laws right? perverted lot you are if this one passes!


----------



## sptrawler (9 June 2013)

dutchie said:


> "Why are people so unkind"
> 
> (no one deserves that)




What is unkind about it?


----------



## Calliope (9 June 2013)

NewbieNSX said:


> thats entirely a choice for yourself really and not an Australian or way of thinking I have come across 32 years in this country.No being muslim has actually nothing to do with holding onto ones values / cultures.  Oh who or where is this deal lol? sounds like a scam.
> 
> Gay marriage is coming soon too lol i bet you agree to that to right? ill tell you anuses werent created for penetrating or inserting anything up there, lol but wait one must agree to a countries ideas and laws right? perverted lot you are if this one passes!




What are your thoughts on pedophilia?



> Mahomet married his wife Aisha when she was just 6 and he was 53, which in most cultures would be classified as pedophilia.




http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/215200-mahomet-s-dark-past.html


----------



## dutchie (9 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> What is unkind about it?




No one deserves a dose of Christine Milne, Bob Brown and Julia Gillard.


----------



## sptrawler (9 June 2013)

dutchie said:


> No one deserves a dose of Christine Milne, Bob Brown and Julia Gillard.




Good point, maybe we could bottle it and export it as a laxative.
Probably has more potential than the 'new technology jobs'.


----------



## Calliope (10 June 2013)

They are just as murderous to each other as they are to "infidels".



> ISLAMIST rebels fighting the Syrian regime have shot dead a 15-year-old youth in front of his parents and siblings after accusing him of blasphemy, a monitoring group says.
> 
> "An unidentified Islamist rebel group shot dead a 15-year-old child who worked as a coffee seller in (the northern city of Aleppo), after they accused him of blasphemy," said Syrian Observatory for Human Rights director Rami Abdel Rahman.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...xecute-youth-ngo/story-fn3dxix6-1226661059170


----------



## Calliope (10 June 2013)

NewbieNSX said:


> Gay marriage is coming soon too lol i bet you agree to that to right? ill tell you anuses werent created for penetrating or inserting anything up there, lol but wait one must agree to a countries ideas and laws right? perverted lot you are if this one passes!




I'm afraid you are very naive NSX.






> SODOMY NOW PART OF THE ISLAMIST RITUAL OF JIHADIST TRAINING
> 
> Not only did the original "underwear bomber" Abdullah Hassan al-Asiri hide explosives in his rectum to assassinate Saudi Prince Muhammad bin Nayef””they met in 2009 after the 22-year-old holy warrior "feigned repentance for his jihadi views"””but al-Asiri apparently had fellow jihadis repeatedly sodomize him to "widen" his anus ...




http://ibloga.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/sodomy-now-part-of-islamist-ritual-of.html


----------



## Boggo (10 June 2013)

Accurate ?


----------



## CanOz (10 June 2013)

While i dislike what the Muslim extremists stand for, i have to admit that the West has played a huge part in too many deaths...The deaths of women and children, totally innocent victims, particularly. 

I think this will be difficult for even the most moderate of Muslims to live with for some time and i don't expect forgiveness to come easy.

If they are going for "an eye for an eye", we still have some debt to repay. Perhaps they will turn out to be even more forgiving than we give them credit for. I really do wish that we could all live our lives together, without the wedge of religion between us.

CanOz


----------



## MrBurns (10 June 2013)

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/suicide-a-wakeup-call-for-france-20130609-2ny34.html


----------



## DB008 (10 June 2013)

CanOz said:


> I really do wish that we could all live our lives together, without the wedge of religion between us.
> 
> CanOz





Will not happen.


nsx, what do you make of this? Don't forget, this is YOUR prophet's message.

*Achtiname of Muhammad*



> An English translation of that document: "This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. *Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them*. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. *No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it*, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. *The Muslims are to fight for them*. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achtiname_of_Muhammad


----------



## Calliope (10 June 2013)

CanOz said:


> I think this will be difficult for even the most moderate of Muslims to live with for some time and i don't expect forgiveness to come easy.




Nobody except bleeding hearts wants their "forgiveness". It's strange that when they hate us so much, most of the boat arrivals will live on our welfare for the rest of our lives. Before we hand it out perhaps we should say "please forgive us" for our token involvement in counter-terrorism wars

I doubt if you have any problems with them in China. 
Just remember this; 

*While most muslims are not terrorists - most terrorists are muslim.*


----------



## CanOz (10 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Nobody except bleeding hearts wants their "forgiveness". It's strange that when they hate us so much, most of the boat arrivals will live on our welfare for the rest of our lives. Before we hand it out perhaps we should say "please forgive us" for our token involvement in counter-terrorism wars
> 
> I doubt if you have any problems with them in China.
> Just remember this;
> ...




They do have issues from time to time, but things are dealt with quickly and we likely only hear the tip of the iceberg....


----------



## MrBurns (10 June 2013)

MrBurns said:


> http://www.theage.com.au/comment/suicide-a-wakeup-call-for-france-20130609-2ny34.html




This whole article is worth reading it shows that anti Muslim sentiment is based on fact...........it's happening now over there and will happen here in due course.........



> Venner, a conservative ultra-nationalist who as a young man had been jailed for violence against Communists, was 78, ailing, and had come to the extreme conclusion that French civilisation was dying and being replaced by an ''Afro-Maghreb culture'' and would give way to sharia law. The former colonies were overrunning the republic. In his final message before leaving for the cathedral, he wrote on his internet blog: ''Peaceful street protests will not be enough to prevent it … It will require new, spectacular, and symbolic gestures to wake up the sleepwalkers, to shake the slumbering consciousness and to remind us of our origins … and rouse people from their complacency … We are entering a time when words must be backed up … by new, spectacular and symbolic actions.''


----------



## bellenuit (10 June 2013)

CanOz said:


> i don't expect forgiveness to come easy.




I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.  They still haven't forgiven the west for the crusades.


----------



## Calliope (10 June 2013)

bellenuit said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.  They still haven't forgiven the west for the crusades.




The damage done by the Crusades pales into insignificance compared to the damage the Islamic invasion is inflicting on European Western civilisation.


----------



## DB008 (10 June 2013)

*UK - Islamic Terrorists Jailed For EDL Attack Plot*



> Six men are sentenced to terms ranging from 18 years and nine months for a plot to bomb an EDL rally.
> 
> Six Islamic extremists who plotted a bloody attack on an English Defence League rally have been given lengthy jail terms.
> 
> ...




http://news.sky.com/story/1101612/islamic-terrorists-jailed-for-edl-attack-plot


----------



## basilio (11 June 2013)

I don't like the very nasty tone of this thread  

For the (forlorn) sake of offering another view on human beings check out this story from a traveller in Iran.



> *The friendliest people on the planet
> *
> Date
> June 11, 2013
> ...


----------



## Julia (11 June 2013)

So what is your point, basilio?   You provide an anecdote about some local person being nice to some tourists in Iran.   What does that have to do with muslim extremists in other countries?


----------



## McLovin (11 June 2013)

The Turkic and Persian people are pretty well known for their hospitality. I travelled right through Turkey and Central Asia last year by car and experienced it first hand. It's extraordinary. It doesn't have much to do with their religion though. In the same way that a lot of the treatment toward women in Saudi Arabia is rooted in tribalism rather than Islam.


----------



## basilio (11 June 2013)

Julia said:


> So what is your point, basilio?   You provide an anecdote about some local person being nice to some tourists in Iran.   What does that have to do with muslim extremists in other countries?




In my view the tone of this thread has gone from discussing muslim extremists to essentially dubbing every Musilim as an extremist (or potential extremist - in which case get em before they become extremist)

The anecdote was just to challenge that view. By the way it way it wasn't simply one person who was nice to the traveler. The article was written because so many people were kind.


----------



## CanOz (11 June 2013)

I think we're at the stage now where most western people think Muslim's are Terrorists and most Muslim people don't trust westerners because they think we're either War mongering remote control drone driving killers or racist pigs...

Perhaps the thread title should read "Are Muslim terrorists invading Western racist pig countries?"

CanOz


----------



## NewbieNSX (11 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Nobody except bleeding hearts wants their "forgiveness". It's strange that when they hate us so much, most of the boat arrivals will live on our welfare for the rest of our lives. Before we hand it out perhaps we should say "please forgive us" for our token involvement in counter-terrorism wars
> 
> I doubt if you have any problems with them in China.
> Just remember this;
> ...




WRONG, most terrorists are of the alike of George bush, john coward , the queen, and blair. Remember these are the people who approved these unlawful invasions and slaughters, without any of the peoples permissions at any time. there reasons were unjustified and never proven and not one of you monekys in here said anything, although there were a few twenty thirty people protesting against it, but nothing stopped them from invading anyway,  never ever recognising them or calling them holocausts or ever paying anyone respect or moments of silences, yet one man dies it is blown up, implanted into your brains and halts the world, ask yourself "am i sheep"" when you answer this question you've answered every other reason you believe all these bull**** stories about muslims, why u have hate for people who are of the utmost respect, clean and decency.  

The people who you people refer to as terrorists are the same people that will protect you and stand for you when your governments come for you, they arent terrorists but freedom fighters (rebels) 

look what they did to Wikileaks julian assange  lol your own man yet none of you care, the man who is risking is whole life to bring you the truth, and the aussie people dont stand for him or look after him, look islam may be percieved as violent and whatever you like to attach to it, but if its a crime to look after the truth and seek it so let crime be committed. 
let me tell you this, weather you beleive in this or not 99% of your problems are because of the system muslims fight, that same system allows alcahol legalised, gambling, brothels, yet you all sit here tell me my religion abuses women, yet you legalise women selling there body themselves? you sit here tell me alcohol which alters the mind of people responsible for so many crimes whilst intoxicated , and you want to blame the good guy? 

look what theyve done to brad manning wikileaks whistleblower , he is being crucified by the system, they are trying to charge him with the biggest charges that carry more then murder sentences, you people arent just blind but stupid too!! sorry to say it so bluntly. 

In life there are two types of people, people who are part of the problem and people who try to solve it.


----------



## flashman1207 (11 June 2013)

So abusing women is the same as a woman voluntarily selling their body? Are you for real? In regard to alcohol etc I lived and worked in the UAE, Oman and Bahrain for 5 years and it always used to amuse me the number of Muslims in the ex pat bars and the number of Saudis who used to drive across the causeway to party and 'abuse' the Russian prostitutes in Bahrain. Dont get me started in those eating, drinking and smoking during Ramadan in the expats canteens


----------



## Calliope (12 June 2013)

NewbieNSX said:


> ask yourself "am i sheep"" when you answer this question you've answered every other reason you believe all these bull**** stories about muslims, why u have hate for people who are of the utmost respect, clean and decency.
> 
> The people who you people refer to as terrorists are the same people that will protect you and stand for you when your governments come for you, they arent terrorists but freedom fighters (rebels)




Sorry NBX. I humbly apologise for ever doubting your decency and pure motives.


----------



## basilio (12 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Sorry NBX. I humbly apologise for ever doubting your decency and pure motives.




And that is* so* sweeeet Calliope.  Let no one ever doubt your sensitivity and innate goodness..


----------



## Calliope (12 June 2013)

basilio said:


> And that is* so* sweeeet Calliope.  Let no one ever doubt your sensitivity and innate goodness..




Thanks bas. A compliment from you will make my day.


----------



## basilio (12 June 2013)

And Calliope whenever you say gracious things about other posters I will continue with the compliments (when I see it of course ).

Far more comfortable than  needless nastiness isn't it ?


----------



## Calliope (12 June 2013)

basilio said:


> .
> 
> Far more comfortable than  needless nastiness isn't it ?




Yes it is, but I forgive you. :topic


----------



## basilio (12 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Yes it is, but I forgive you. :topic




And I forgive you too ... 

Bye


----------



## NewbieNSX (13 June 2013)

flashman1207 said:


> So abusing women is the same as a woman voluntarily selling their body? Are you for real? In regard to alcohol etc I lived and worked in the UAE, Oman and Bahrain for 5 years and it always used to amuse me the number of Muslims in the ex pat bars and the number of Saudis who used to drive across the causeway to party and 'abuse' the Russian prostitutes in Bahrain. Dont get me started in those eating, drinking and smoking during Ramadan in the expats canteens




I dont even consider Saudis to be muslims, not that im one to judge but they are the biggest hypocrites and filthy money hungry pigs that do indeed abuse women and exploit other people. Please look cultures, groups , religions as majorities and stop focusing on all the small things in life, no not that little weeny in your pants im talking about muslims in general.


----------



## stewiejp (13 June 2013)

NewbieNSX said:


> WRONG, most terrorists are of the alike of George bush, john coward , the queen, and blair. Remember these are the people who approved these unlawful invasions and slaughters, without any of the peoples permissions at any time. there reasons were unjustified and never proven and not one of you monekys in here said anything, although there were a few twenty thirty people protesting against it, but nothing stopped them from invading anyway,  never ever recognising them or calling them holocausts or ever paying anyone respect or moments of silences, yet one man dies it is blown up, implanted into your brains and halts the world, ask yourself "am i sheep"" when you answer this question you've answered every other reason you believe all these bull**** stories about muslims, why u have hate for people who are of the utmost respect, clean and decency.
> 
> In life there are two types of people, people who are part of the problem and people who try to solve it.




Very good point NSX, and I agree we (the West) went to war without good reason to do so. The public were lied to and our children went to war under the guise of "spreading democracy" or "Weapons of Mass Destruction" or whatever lies GWB and his posse bought up. I am fairly certain a decent percentage, if not the majority of Australians realise this now, and understand it is/was a political war rather than a religious war.

Having said that, what happened to the soldier in Britain, whether one believes in this war or not was reprehensible. Like it or not, whenever the problems in that part of the world are bought up (Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan etc) - the average Aussie is sick to death of it. Why? Because it has been going on for far too long. For the life of me I can't understand why the world leaders can't sit around a table, have a civil conversation over a few pizzas or a fine meal and work things out like adults. Comments like calling people monkeys, sheep and calling for jihads, rioting in the streets and the like will only entice hatred, and will not create sympathy for your cause.* All *sides need to respect the needs of the other sides for this to happen.

Islam is a beautiful religion? When I studied religion I couldn't agree more. While I keep the opinion that the vast majority of people who identify themselves as Muslims are decent folk - that image IMO is generally fading to your average Aussie mainly due to incidents like what happened in Britain, and comments like yours NSX regarding gay marriage, and speaking down to whoever does not share your view. I understand many (most? all?) Muslims may denounce homosexuality, as you seem to with your description of what the anus is designed for, but like muslims, homosexuals are a minority fighting for their rights in this country. When a minority group (Islam) on the one hand is fighting for *their* rights, but on the other hand denouncing and protest about another minority groups rights (Homosexuals), it comes across as hypocritical. Your average homosexual respects the rights of your average muslim to practice their beliefs, why can't muslims repay that respect. It has nothing to do with your rights.

White Australia. You are right, it wasn't so long ago, and it is being addressed. 

Live and let live.


----------



## Calliope (14 June 2013)

stewiejp said:


> Very good point NSX, and I agree we (the West) went to war without good reason to do so. The public were lied to and our children went to war under the guise of "spreading democracy" or "Weapons of Mass Destruction" or whatever lies GWB and his posse bought up. I am fairly certain a decent percentage, if not the majority of Australians realise this now, and understand it is/was a political war rather than a religious war.
> 
> Live and let live.




Here we go again stewie. Obama is threatening military intervention in Syria. I am sure all Muslims will agree with me when I say he should butt out. If Muslims want to murder each other by whatever means they like, that is none of the West's business. As you say 'live and let live".


----------



## MrBurns (14 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Here we go again stewie. Obama is threatening military intervention in Syria. I am sure all Muslims will agree with me when I say he should butt out. If Muslims want to murder each other by whatever means they like, that is none of the West's business. As you say 'live and let live".




It's wholesale slaughter, women and children , one 12 year old shot in front of his parents and it gets a lot worse than that. I agree intervention is undesirable but who could blame them ? 
Perhaps they should just accept the world is a hell on earth in many places and just let it go.


----------



## Calliope (14 June 2013)

MrBurns said:


> It's wholesale slaughter, women and children , one 12 year old shot in front of his parents and it gets a lot worse than that. I agree intervention is undesirable but who could blame them ?
> Perhaps they should just accept the world is a hell on earth in many places and just let it go.




Russia and China don't see a problem and the Iran backed Hezbollah have moved in to give the murderous President Bashar Assad a helping hand to destroy the Sunnis rebellion. Stewie is right. It was a stupid mistake for George Bush to wipe out Saddam's Sunni regime. Saddam was the West's best counterbalance against the Shiite regime in Iran. Iran is the regions biggest danger.

The Sunnis are the more numerous but the Shiites will soon have the bomb.






Sunnis Green   Shiites Blue


----------



## Julia (14 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Here we go again stewie. Obama is threatening military intervention in Syria. I am sure all Muslims will agree with me when I say he should butt out. If Muslims want to murder each other by whatever means they like, that is none of the West's business. As you say 'live and let live".



Apparently Obama has said no American troops will be placed on Syrian ground.  What they're considering now is arming the rebels.
I'm with the view that they should stay right out of it, but the potential for spread to Jordan and surrounding other countries is a concern.


----------



## Calliope (14 June 2013)

A No Fly Zone could help even things up a bit.



> This no-fly zone can be legalized based on humanitarian reasons. The Syrian air force has targetted crowded cities, leaving many dead. The injured have limited and sometimes no access to hospitals and medical aid.
> 
> Syrians are increasingly disappointed by the international community, which they see as doing nothing for them, regardless of the abuse of human rights and massacres committed by the regime.
> 
> ...




http://www.yementimes.com/en/1685/opinion/2489/Saying-‘yes’-to-a-no-fly-zone-in-Syria.htm


----------



## flashman1207 (14 June 2013)

So the West is constantly told to 'keep out' of foreign conflicts but then berated for not doing enough. Can't have it both ways


----------



## spooly74 (14 June 2013)

They've already invaded?



> Britain is in denial.
> If population trends continue, by the year 2050, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation




http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3770/the_islamic_future_of_britain


----------



## Boggo (14 June 2013)

More of the same...
http://www.cbn.com/tv/1509282970001


----------



## Calliope (14 June 2013)

spooly74 said:


> They've already invaded?
> http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3770/the_islamic_future_of_britain




It is strange that the pommy politicians are so complacent about this invasion. Anybody who protests is branded a radical right winger, a Facist or a neo-Nazi. WHY??? Does this mean that the left are encouraging the demise of everything that the Battle of Britain was fought for? What Hitler couldn't achieve by force is now being achieved by stealth.

From your link;



> These startling demographic facts have been available for some time (see ‘Muslim Population “Rising 10 Times Faster than Rest of Society”’, The Times, 30 January 2009. Also the work of the Oxford demographer David Coleman). But on this historic transformation of the country there is silence from the political establishment.


----------



## ChrisJH (15 June 2013)

Someone needs to lay the law down somewhere. Let them come here and believe in their god, but anything more than that isn't compatible with Western culture.


----------



## qldfrog (15 June 2013)

ChrisJH said:


> Someone needs to lay the law down somewhere. Let them come here and believe in their god, but anything more than that isn't compatible with Western culture.




I would remove the "stupid" but for the rest agree with you


----------



## BigWillieStyles (16 June 2013)

Islam is represented in the UK office of national statistics as having only 5% overall. You can expect that radical views to be far far less. The British government keeps close tabs of these radical groups. 




spooly74 said:


> They've already invaded?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3770/the_islamic_future_of_britain




See reply to article -

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3774/britain_won_t_be_a_muslim_majority_country


----------



## DB008 (16 June 2013)

BigWillieStyles said:


> Islam is represented in the UK office of national statistics as having only 5% overall. You can expect that radical views to be far far less. The British government keeps close tabs of these radical groups.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just read that article in your link.

It doesn't really say much and it's more of an opinion from Raheem Kassam, Executive Editor.


----------



## bunyip (2 July 2013)

The following was sent to me by a friend. I don't know if it's true or not - I suggest you do your own research and make up your own minds.
I'll reproduce his email exactly as it was sent to me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_Sharia Law is the most frightening thing to confront us all, especially women, I dont know if this  info is correct but have had this e.mail sent to me from quite a few different people now, so it is worth thinking about. I will do some checking of my own before the referendum BUT Sharia Law must NOT be allowed into our systems here in Aust. 

 Subject: Fw: IMPORTANT -- PLEASE PASS AROUND

  PLEASE PASS AROUND
Please, note this is from a friend who is well informed in the political area.

 Hi
It is critical that all people oppose (vote NO) to the proposed change to recognise local govt in the constitution at the referendum at the Sept election.  By local govt areas being recognised then Sharia law can be demanded in the local area based on the % of Muslim people in that local area.  This is exactly how the Muslims obtained sharia law recognised in UK.
_


----------



## Calliope (2 July 2013)

They now have a toehold in Rudd's ministry. One guy was sworn in yesterday using the Koran.


----------



## CanOz (2 July 2013)

bunyip said:


> The following was sent to me by a friend. I don't know if it's true or not - I suggest you do your own research and make up your own minds.
> I'll reproduce his email exactly as it was sent to me.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...




Sharia law has absolutely no place in a modern and free democratic society...:bad:

CanOz


----------



## basilio (2 July 2013)

We move quickly on this thread don't we ? 

Someone throws up a flame email  with *absolutely no shred of supporting evidence* saying that voting to recogise local councils could end up with Sharia law becoming the rule.

*And its swallowed hook line and sinker.* Of course any repudiation of such a claim will be ignored because the Labour Government always lies and anyway the Muslims have now infiltrated them. AAAARKKK !


----------



## Julia (2 July 2013)

basilio said:


> We move quickly on this thread don't we ?
> 
> Someone throws up a flame email  with *absolutely no shred of supporting evidence* saying that voting to recogise local councils could end up with Sharia law becoming the rule.
> 
> *And its swallowed hook line and sinker.*



*
Why are you making that patronising assumption?  CanOz didn't even comment on the supposed email.
He made a statement indicating what he believes which is absolutely fair enough imo.*


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## stewiejp (2 July 2013)

Whilst I'm no fan of sharia law, that looks like something straight out of the spam folder - the email states, "note this is from a friend who is well informed in the political area." - this could be anybody, and is the kind of line emails with zero integrity use to try and look like it came from someobe who knows what they are on about. IMO it is simply someone's opinion, nothing to do with any politician or person "in the know" as it seems to try to imply.
As Bunyip says, do your own research but it looks a lot like spam/trying to create a bandwagon to me.

FWIW I wouldn't vote yes to such a referendum, as it *may* remove any option (in the future) to eradicate or limit local governments' powers which could be a good option at some stage for this over governed country... but I digress.


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## DB008 (2 July 2013)

Flip side...


Swedish Women Drop Burkas and Enter Stockholm Mosque Bare-Breasted; Pandemonium Ensues
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/06/30/swedish-women-drop-burkas-and-enter-stockholm-mosque-bare-breasted-pandemonium-ensues/



> At 11 o’clock on Saturday, [they came] into the Stockholm mosque [in] SÃ¶dermalm, threw [their] clothes [away, and,] with clenched fists in the air, they shouted in English:… “No to Sharia! No to oppression! Free women!”


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## Julia (2 July 2013)

stewiejp said:


> Whilst I'm no fan of sharia law, that looks like something straight out of the spam folder - the email states, "note this is from a friend who is well informed in the political area." - this could be anybody, and is the kind of line emails with zero integrity use to try and look like it came from someobe who knows what they are on about.



Yes, it is reminiscent of the widely circulated junk which asserted that all boat people arriving in Australia were given $6000 to set up house, plus the one which did the rounds for years that refugees in Australia received several times the pension rate paid to aged Australians.


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## DB008 (2 July 2013)

Julia said:


> Yes, it is reminiscent of the widely circulated junk which asserted that all boat people arriving in Australia were given $6000 to set up house, plus the one which did the rounds for years that refugees in Australia received several times the pension rate paid to aged Australians.




Figures for future reference.....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-13/boat-arrivals-in-australia-since-1976/4627200


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## Julia (2 July 2013)

I must be missing something in your link.  It goes to numbers of boat arrivals.
Nothing to do with assertions about money paid to asylum seekers or sharia law.


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## bunyip (3 July 2013)

DB008 said:


> Flip side...
> 
> 
> Swedish Women Drop Burkas and Enter Stockholm Mosque Bare-Breasted; Pandemonium Ensues
> http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/06/30/swedish-women-drop-burkas-and-enter-stockholm-mosque-bare-breasted-pandemonium-ensues/




LOL!  A new mosque is planned in a city near me – I might have a yarn to a few of the local sheilas to see if they’d be interested in fronting up and then dropping their gear once they’re inside!


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## basilio (3 July 2013)

Julia said:


> Why are you making that patronising assumption?  CanOz didn't even comment on the supposed email.
> He made a statement indicating what he believes which is absolutely fair enough imo.




Misunderstanding there.  I agree that Can Oz's rejection of Sharia law is quite reasonable.  I was simply questioning the acceptance of the email as part of the argument.  Effectively the email was saying that if you wanted to stop Sharia law you needed to vote No to the referendum. 

As you noted later on there are way too many dodgy emails doing the round that attempt to stir resentments and just lies. 

And frankly I suspect there may be more than a few ASF members who would accept and quote that email as part of an argument against Muslim extremism ?


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## Calliope (3 July 2013)

basilio said:


> And frankly I suspect there may be more than a few ASF members who would accept and quote that email as part of an argument against Muslim extremism ?




But you have always been been the biggest offender in quoting rubbish in support of your many doubtful screwy causes. You can't whinge when somebody else does it.


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## Calliope (4 July 2013)

The Egyptian people have given the Muslim Brotherhood the boot.

EGYPT'S army chief Abdel Fattah al-Sisi has ousted president Mohamed Morsi and declared the head of the Supreme Constitutional Court caretaker leader.



> Mr Sisi, the defence minister in Mr Morsi's government, also announced a freezing of the Islamist-drafted constitution and early presidential elections.
> 
> He said a "strong and capable" government would be formed and would have "full capacities".
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...l&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=17300093


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## bunyip (16 July 2013)

Here’s this pommy bloke again, telling it how it is. He sure does have a way with words!!


http://dotsub.com/view/72457cbc-fe18-4053-ae3f-6c7639cf4e79


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## basilio (17 July 2013)

bunyip said:


> Here’s this pommy bloke again, telling it how it is. He sure does have a way with words!!
> 
> 
> http://dotsub.com/view/72457cbc-fe18-4053-ae3f-6c7639cf4e79




Well he certainly is special. Articulate, determined and absolutely certain that anything associated with the Muslim religion is a disaster.

And exactly why should we take any notice of him ? Or does he just make anyone slightly to the left of him look reasonable? Pure hate .


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## Lantern (18 July 2013)

^^ Rubbish. He is no more against Muslims than he is about any religion.

If he stood for election in the UK he would walk in. He makes more sense than any politician that ever walked the earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk4AJ1BgQX8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg


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## bunyip (19 July 2013)

basilio said:


> Well he certainly is special. Articulate, determined and absolutely certain that anything associated with the Muslim religion is a disaster.
> 
> And exactly why should we take any notice of him ?




I don't recall saying that you should take any notice of him -  I couldn't care less whether you take any notice or him or not.


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## Tisme (8 June 2017)




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## noco (8 June 2017)

Tisme said:


> View attachment 71471




 Not good Tisme.......The horse has bolted in the UK.

Somebody has to put the breaks on here in Australia before we reach the UK level.


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## noco (9 June 2017)




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