# Australia Day



## laurie (25 January 2006)

Guys & Gals have a fantastic Australia Day what a fantastic country we live in 

cheers laurie


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## dutchie (25 January 2006)

Its the best!!

Enjoy your day off everyone, especially those that stare at the screen all day.

Johnny says more anthem singing and more Oz history at schools - about time.


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## crackaton (25 January 2006)

More immigrants... Good enought reason to get pissed.


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## johnno261 (25 January 2006)

Having served as a member of The ADF, Australia Day means freedom of life in the best country in the world!!!! It's not until you travel that you realise this is the best place in the world!!!!! It is good to be patriotic and proud!!!!!
HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY TO ALL  
Cheers
Johnno


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## Julia (25 January 2006)

As someone who has lived most of my life in New Zealand, came here to live 13 years ago, have taken out citizenship in Australia, I'm immensely grateful to live in a country where we may take such freedoms as we have so much for granted.  

Crackaton,  perhaps you could consider a more constructive use of the freedom of speech you are able to enjoy in Australia.

Hope everyone has a relaxed and happy day tomorrow.

Cheers

Julia


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## wayneL (25 January 2006)

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17933456-2,00.html


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## visual (25 January 2006)

Wayne,you dont work at coles do you? lol
some months ago they had Australian oranges with american stickers,
so I asked the guy,when did we become an american state,oh ye he said I know,so change the sign I told him,ye tomorrow.
Needless to say weeks later they were still selling oranges under the Australian banner but with american stickers.  
Happy Australia day everyone


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## Duckman#72 (26 January 2006)

Don't get angry at crackaton. He only wants to get to .3 posts per day before the 31st!

Anyway what is this stench that has crept into our culture over the past 20 years. Don't tell me you haven't noticed the shift? The "hold your hand over your heart" if you're a true Australian movement.

Well you can take your American brand of over-the-top, in-your-face sense of pride and patriotism and clear out. Australia Day appears to be a contrived attempt to develop a feeling of community and wellbeing for our country and it's people. Well I'm sorry but you can't teach someone that. You have it or you don't.  

It has always been the Australian way to appear apathetic to our beloved country.   

I am extremely proud to be Australian however I will defend my right to do absolutely nothing tomorrow. To those of you who call me Un-Australian.....maybe, just maybe......it's you!

PS I will be eating my Lamb Cutlets.


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## Fleeta (26 January 2006)

johnno261 said:
			
		

> Having served as a member of The ADF, Australia Day means freedom of life in the best country in the world!!!! It's not until you travel that you realise this is the best place in the world!!!!! It is good to be patriotic and proud!!!!!
> HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY TO ALL
> Cheers
> Johnno




Agreed, just started my 6 months traveling a month ago and I now know why people say this.

On another point, does anyone think that Anzac Day will take over as the real Australia Day in years to come? I'm looking forward to being in Turkey for it this year...hopefully they can keep the bird flu away.


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## Stan 101 (26 January 2006)

Hi Fleeta, where are you and where are you going?

I'm born and bred in Australia but feel no pride as such in this country, though certainly no animosity. It's simply the place I was born; it's home. I could never see me putting my hand on my heart looking at a flag. Nothing against anyone who does, just not me. I'm a human being of this earth, first and foremost, not an Australian.
Oz has some great features and quite a good lifestyle. We have low population (on a personal level it means a bit more shoulder room), great beaches and inland, and a population slowly becoming more comfortable with multiculturalism. We can't forget a good tax system for those wanting to work with it.

I hope you all have a good day tomorrow and do what you feel. 

As for ANZAC day, I hope it's kept separate. People died for my freedom and that day means a lot to the people they left behind. Keep it sacred.


cheers,


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## wayneL (26 January 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> Wayne,you dont work at coles do you? lol




I'm self unemployed


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## bullmarket (26 January 2006)

Happy Australia Day Everyone 

Have a great day whatever way you choose to celebrate the arrival of the First Fleet in 1788 and the subsequent national achievements their arrival initiated during our brief history of a little over 200 years.

cheers

bullmarket


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## Happy (26 January 2006)

Some celebrate Great Invasion Day too, so this day means something almost to everybody.

(So, immigration created it’s first problems more than 200 y ago, and still going strong   )


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## justjohn (26 January 2006)

This year there seems to be a lot more Australian flags around is this due to what happened at Cronulla or have people finally realised how lucky they are to live here.Have a great day :dance:  :bier:


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## websman (26 January 2006)

Happy Australia day Dudes!

Wayne, that article was interesting.  Is there that many American haters over there?

Heck man, I'm proud to be American and I'm proud that I have the freedom to carry a gun if I want.  that's what freedom is about.  Plus, we have cheap gas...or petrol as you guys call it.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (26 January 2006)

Australia day. A day we should all embrace irrespective of what we do on this day. 

I`m overseas and value the aussie culture more than anyone. Yes we have a culture, it doesn`t stand out like some countries with their arcane standards and tribal rituals, but we are aussies and the culture is rich. So hold up your Aussie flags and be proud.

A snag on the barbie. You bet any day.

Enjoy the day off. I can`t because it ain`t on over here.

Snake


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## Caliente (26 January 2006)

haha, I also defend my right to do absolutely nothing on this most glorious of days except raise a snag on the barbie and sit back and watch the Skyworks tonight!  

Happy Australia Day everyone!


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## Fleeta (26 January 2006)

Stan 101 said:
			
		

> Hi Fleeta, where are you and where are you going?
> 
> I'm born and bred in Australia but feel no pride as such in this country, though certainly no animosity. It's simply the place I was born; it's home. I could never see me putting my hand on my heart looking at a flag. Nothing against anyone who does, just not me. I'm a human being of this earth, first and foremost, not an Australian.




Yeah, I am the same as you. But after working in the UK for a month in the freezing cold, sitting in traffic for hours just because the road layout is terrible, everyone living on top of each other in tiny apartments and terraces, no water pressure and no constant hot water because everything is so old, heaps of social issues, boring football, terrible TV, etc. etc. makes you realise how good we have it in Australia - being such a modern and forward thinking country!

I'm working here until the end of March and then making my way through Europe to Turkey for Anzac Day before a week in the Greek Islands and then back home.


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## sandik17 (26 January 2006)

We've had a great day...no hands on hearts, but just a relaxing family day.  Loved it...and love that we only have one more work day till the weekend!


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## Smurf1976 (26 January 2006)

Personally I think any type of blind patriotism is dangerous to say the least.

Don't misunderstand me here, I've got nothing whatsoever against Australia. But those who preach the hand on your heart, Australia can do no wrong etc stuff are downright dangerous IMO. It's ALWAYS good to question things and if the government wants you to do otherwise then that's all the more reason to be asking questions. Blind faith in anything is dangerous since it effectively reduces the number of thinking individuals to very few, perhaps only one, which has obvious dangerous potential.

So I'm certainly glad to have been born and live in this country but I will always question things and base my opinion and actions on the available evidence rather than blind patriotism.

Freedom is by definition about choice. You choose whether or not to sing the national anthem rather than being forced. You choose whether or not to have a flag in your front yard. You choose whether to believe in a religion or not. You choose who to vote for. And you have the absolute right to publicly express your disapproval of anything no matter what the particular issue may be. That's freedom. A requirement, as opposed to the choice, to be patriotic, wave flags etc is anything but freedom.


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## Double Six (27 January 2006)

"blind patriotism "
why do you use the word "blind"

your attitudes are showing.

what you are talking about isn't freedom, its just plain anarchy.


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## Smurf1976 (27 January 2006)

Double Six said:
			
		

> "blind patriotism "
> why do you use the word "blind"
> 
> your attitudes are showing.
> ...



Blind as in not seeing and questioning. The ability for anyone to establish any form of dictatorship etc relies upon the effective suppression of resistance. That's the lesson of history. 

I would hate to see that happen in Australia but it is naive to think that it's impossible, especially if people become accustomed to simply following the heard rather than thinking for themselves. Hence my firm belief that all people should be encouraged to think rather than simply follow.

Those who blindly follow anything without questioning what is in fact going on are asking for trouble and tend to get it. "Nasdaq always goes up in the new economy" being a classic example of the "blind" approach which leads to trouble. Those who refused to be "patriotic" to the US, markets or whatever and did their own thinking instead came out on top whilst the "blind" were lead to ruin as usual. 

On the other hand, those who support freedom are by definition accepting of those who disagree with their views. It's not freedom if dissenting (sp?) views are not allowed. Hence why in relatively free countries such as Australia we have historically had people saying all sorts of things from religion to politics without fear of the consequences.

There is of course a valid point about freedom versus anarchy. It could be argued that individuals owning guns is very much on the anarchy side. Others would argue that it represents a defence against potential threats and is thus associated with freedom.

I certainly don't have a problem with anyone choosing to sing the national anthem, fly flags, buy Australian made products where possible (a far more useful thing to do than singing or putting up flags) etc but they ought to be doing so of their own free will without being compelled to do so. That approach has served us perfectly well so far and there's no need to change it despite the apparent wish of some to do so.


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## justjohn (26 January 2007)

have a great day everyone, just been down at Terrigal beach aussie flags everywhere, tents, BBQs, people enjoying our national day :aus:


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## Wysiwyg (26 January 2009)

The bloke in this tube video has some thoughts on Americanism and Aboriginals.Valid points near the end about no one knowing how to speak Aboriginal  language.

Maybe more Aboriginal culture could be taught at school or would that be another humiliation to a race of humans that lived on this continent for circa 40,000years.


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## Wysiwyg (26 January 2010)

Most would have been to or lived in the places mentioned in the following educational film which is presented to new immigrants to Australia.
 I said thanks Wara tah.


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## Tisme (11 January 2016)

Lamb Advert 2016:

http://www.news.com.au/video/id-Vyd...A2P/It's-here:-the-2016-Australia-Day-lamb-ad


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## nickg198 (11 January 2016)

laurie said:


> Guys & Gals have a fantastic Australia Day what a fantastic country we live in
> 
> cheers laurie




Management rights are the letting agent and caretaking services which private management rights arrangements in Queensland are generally working well


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## Tisme (15 January 2016)

I put out my flag on the top story last Sunday so the boats and cars passing can get all Ozdayofied ready for Tuesday festivities.

I'm guessing the old chestnut about it being repackaged as "Citizen's Day" to appease our Islamic mates will surface on the webs soon.


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## Tisme (15 January 2016)

Kinda sad looking into that crowd


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## Bill M (15 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Kinda sad looking into that crowd





Arrrhhhh the memories. On that day Jan 26 1988 I was at the southern pylon of The Sydney Harbour Bridge near Pier 1. Had the best view ever, got there very early and spent all day and night there. A fleet of tallships from around the world was in Sydney Harbour for our bi-centenary.

I have a limited edition 300 degree panoramic photograph that Phil Gray took from a mounted camera in a helicopter hanging on my wall.  It shows the Juan Sebastion de Elcano, Spain's 113 metre Barquentine and the 108 metre Dar Mlodziezy from Poland near Fort Denison.

It was the best Australia Day I had ever experienced, what a top day it was.:aus:

Edit: I just found a link to this photograph. It costs $1,150 to buy now.
Link here: http://www.joseflebovicgallery.com/Catalogue/CL_153_2011/Large/153_0124.jpg


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## Logique (15 January 2016)

Cancel this stupid holiday.

Australia Day has a lot work to do to redeem itself.  Cronulla cast a long shadow. The national flag still says "jingoism" to many Australians.

So sad. It's the birthright of every Australian to be able to celebrate the national day in complete safety. A US style Thanksgiving it isn't.  

Just "Hoons on Parade" now.  Stay inside for your personal safety.  From a male 'caucasian'.


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## Bill M (15 January 2016)

Logique said:


> Cancel this stupid holiday.
> 
> Australia Day has a lot work to do to redeem itself.  Cronulla cast a long shadow. The national flag still says "jingoism" to many Australians.
> 
> ...




The Cronulla riots were a disgusting piece of our history, just imagine, those morons used large Australian flags and *wore* them as cape, then they used long neck beer bottles to bash anybody who wasn't a white Caucasian. Thank God most Aussies disapprove of this type of behaviour.


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## SirRumpole (15 January 2016)

Logique said:


> Cancel this stupid holiday.
> 
> Australia Day has a lot work to do to redeem itself.  Cronulla cast a long shadow. The national flag still says "jingoism" to many Australians.
> 
> ...




Why let a few idiots spoil it for the rest ?

However I think holidays commemorating any event are a waste, it's just a day off for most people.


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## trainspotter (15 January 2016)

Bill M said:


> The Cronulla riots were a disgusting piece of our history, just imagine, those morons used large Australian flags and *wore* them as cape, then they used long neck beer bottles to bash anybody who wasn't a white Caucasian. Thank God most Aussies disapprove of this type of behaviour.




Two sides to every story ...



> The left-wing, politically correct mainstream media had a field day blackening Australia's reputation following the Cronulla riots.
> 
> 
> *All Arabs unite as one, we will never back down, the Aussies will feel the full force of the Arabs. Destroy everything, gather at Cronulla December 18 at midday - spread the word. Together exterminate the enemy at Cronulla. Send this to every lion of Lebanon. - Text message circulating amongst Lebanese gang members*
> ...




http://australian-news.net/articles/view.php?id=118


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## Bill M (15 January 2016)

Two wrongs don't make a right. Both sides were off the rails and I support neither of the two. At the end of the day the Police took control of the situation. Regardless of what some might think of them, the Police did sort it out, it could have ended a lot worse. A lot of innocent and decent people on both sides were affected.


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## Tisme (15 January 2016)

Bill M said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right. Both sides were off the rails and I support neither of the two. At the end of the day the Police took control of the situation. Regardless of what some might think of them, the Police did sort it out, it could have ended a lot worse. A lot of innocent and decent people on both sides were affected.




Which sides were they Bill ...Australians and Arabs?


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## Bill M (15 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Which sides were they Bill ...Australians and Arabs?




You can read the story above my post, I'm sure you will work it out.


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## SirRumpole (15 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Which sides were they Bill ...Australians and Arabs?




Bogans and bogans.


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## Bill M (15 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Bogans and bogans.




Perfect.


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## Tisme (15 January 2016)

Hey

I put a flag out the front ....according to the Green Left I'm a bogan too


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## SirRumpole (15 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Hey
> 
> I put a flag out the front ....according to the Green Left I'm a bogan too




But a patriotic one.


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## Logique (26 January 2016)

Pretty reasonable flag for mine. One of the better alternatives I've seen.



> Southern Horizon favoured for Australia's new national flag, survey shows - January 26, 2016
> 
> SMH : http://www.smh.com.au/national/sout...rvey-shows-20160126-gmdzwz.html#ixzz3yJp6s3Ee


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## SirRumpole (26 January 2016)

Logique said:


> Pretty reasonable flag for mine. One of the better alternatives I've seen.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 65646




I think that's good, but replace the green and gold with orange for the deserts or a Uluru symbol and I think it would look better.


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## Tisme (26 July 2017)

Mark at it again

https://www.marklathamsoutsiders.com/save-australia-day


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## Tisme (24 January 2018)

Rally call to Wassies: 

maybe we should change the date to when Charlie Fremantle took possession of New Holland 9 May 1829, when we became the real whole of Australia under one flag,  or when it was renamed Western Australia in 1832.

The aborigines arrived in West Oz ~60k years ago and spread out to the rest of the continent, so it is obvious WA is the cradle of our population and therefore must be honoured


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## PZ99 (24 January 2018)

Leave it as it is. Or change it to April 4th


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## Junior (24 January 2018)

Move Australia Day to the last Friday in January each year.

- Include all Aussies (if you think the current holiday is a nice tradition for Indigenous Aussies....do some more research)
- Long weekend
- Similar time of year to current holiday

Everyone wins!


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## Tisme (24 January 2018)

Junior said:


> ....do some more research




https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110758409


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## Junior (24 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110758409




Interesting articles.  So you agree with my proposed solution?


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## Tisme (24 January 2018)

Junior said:


> Interesting articles.  So you agree with my proposed solution?




To be honest I really don't give a rats either way and I never thought of opening a beer and eating lamb as insulting to the indigenous and part indigenous, migrants, convicts, etc. It's actually all about me having a day off and enjoying the fact I can have some turps and snags, independent of interfering wowsers, foreigners, justice warriors, etc.

Australia Day is you, me and them and it isn't mandatory to attend.


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## Logique (25 January 2018)

Have a great Australia Day tomorrow everyone.

Please take it easy, be kind and tolerant to everyone around you - that's what matters the most on this special day - whenever we choose to celebrate it.

Jan 26 being the last weekend of the school holidays, the timing can cause issues with, shall we say 'over-exhuberance' from the punters, as we saw a few years back..


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## SirRumpole (25 January 2018)

Logique said:


> Have a great Australia Day tomorrow everyone.
> 
> Please take it easy, be kind and tolerant to everyone around you - that's what matters the most on this special day - whenever we choose to celebrate it.
> 
> Jan 26 being the last weekend of the school holidays, the timing can cause issues with, shall we say 'over-exhuberance' from the punters, as we saw a few years back..




Same to you Logique and everyone else.

Runs flag up pole.


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## sptrawler (25 January 2018)

I see the vocal minority, have moved on to Australia day as their next focus, unbelievable wanton damage.
Most Countries of the World, would take defacing National statues as a serious offence, not here we wonder why social behaviour is worsening. When in reality we are rewarding it, by continually bending to their demands and excusing deplorable behaviour.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...a/news-story/ba059449b909d20abffae1266f7f7117

I wonder how it would go down in the U.S, if someone threw paint over George Wahington? Or defacing a statue of Chairman Mao, in China, I guess they wouldn't do it there, for fear of being punished.
But in Australia it's o.k, we just roll over and pizz on ourselves.


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## drsmith (25 January 2018)

The ABC has a poll on what the alternative date should be.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-25/australia-day:-change-the-date-options/9359260


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## SirRumpole (25 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I see the vocal minority, have moved on to Australia day as their next focus, unbelievable wanton damage.
> Most Countries of the World, would take defacing National statues as a serious offence, not here we wonder why social behaviour is worsening. When in reality we are rewarding it, by continually bending to their demands and excusing deplorable behaviour.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...a/news-story/ba059449b909d20abffae1266f7f7117
> ...




Yep it will be flag burning next.

Probably some commie pinko radical idiots.


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## luutzu (25 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I see the vocal minority, have moved on to Australia day as their next focus, unbelievable wanton damage.
> Most Countries of the World, would take defacing National statues as a serious offence, not here we wonder why social behaviour is worsening. When in reality we are rewarding it, by continually bending to their demands and excusing deplorable behaviour.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...a/news-story/ba059449b909d20abffae1266f7f7117
> ...




Charge whoever did that for damage to property or something. But agree with it or it, it's a political statement and they (note, they ) should all be free to do it even if it offend some people's sense of national pride.

Politicians aren't going to drop Australia Day from the 26th. Too much of a headache. They'll just move the tennis or the footy around that date to slowly blur out the message. 

No one would mind because it's a day off with beer, barbies and a few extra flags to wave round.


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## fiftyeight (25 January 2018)

I don't get this debate, why cant we celebrate Aboriginal culture on the 26th and recognise ALL Aboriginal history and then celebrate "Australia Day" on some other date? Maybe the 27th? Another public holiday and possibly another 4 day weekend. Winner winner for all!!!!


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## cynic (26 January 2018)

I would like to take this moment, to wish all at ASF (even those whom have placed me on ignore), a very:

*Happy 26th of January!*

Have a great day, irrespective of what it may, or may not, signify!


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## Tisme (26 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> I don't get this debate, why cant we celebrate Aboriginal culture on the 26th and recognise ALL Aboriginal history and then celebrate "Australia Day" on some other date? Maybe the 27th? Another public holiday and possibly another 4 day weekend. Winner winner for all!!!!





Because the date will never be undone. It will never become a ubiquitous day of shame of the whites and a celebration of aboriginals, but always a day the ships laid anchor at Port Jackson (~8 days after they actually arrived in Botany Bay).

If anything it would become a continual reminder of appeasement and faux sympathy.

For a culture that didn't embrace pronouns, 16th century Gregorian calendar days, flags, territorial boundaries, etc it was sure quick to embrace them with SWJs cracking the whip as their new masters.


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## SirRumpole (26 January 2018)

Some excellent results for science and maths in the Australia Day awards.

*Australian of the Year awards: Quantum physicist Michelle Yvonne Simmons receives 2018 honour.*

*http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-25/quantum-physicist-named-2018-australian-of-the-year/9363206*


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## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

It's a bit sad really that those who denounce colonisation, don't hesitate to avail themselves of the trappings of it.


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## fiftyeight (26 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> Because the date will never be undone. It will never become a ubiquitous day of shame of the whites and a celebration of aboriginals, but always a day the ships laid anchor at Port Jackson (~8 days after they actually arrived in Botany Bay).
> 
> If anything it would become a continual reminder of appeasement and faux sympathy.
> 
> For a culture that didn't embrace pronouns, 16th century Gregorian calendar days, flags, territorial boundaries, etc it was sure quick to embrace them with SWJs cracking the whip as their new masters.




Haha I expected this kind of reply. 

Who said anything about shame? I said recognise ALL Aboriginal history and celebrate Aboriginal culture.

As you have pointed out "8 days after they actually arrived in Botany Bay". This supports my view, I just do not care what day we celebrate the amazing country we are lucky enough to call home. The boxing kangaroo I drunkly got tattooed on my ass agrees with me


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## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Haha I expected this kind of reply.
> 
> Who said anything about shame? I said recognise ALL Aboriginal history and celebrate Aboriginal culture.
> 
> As you have pointed out "8 days after they actually arrived in Botany Bay". This supports my view, I just do not care what day we celebrate the amazing country we are lucky enough to call home. The boxing kangaroo I drunkly got tattooed on my ass agrees with me




I agree with you, change the day to recognise all Australian culture, make it the first Sunday in January every year. 
Cancel the public holiday, for invasion day, if that's what they want.

I bet, big business will support that, not sure the plebs have thought it through. LOL
Actually might as well address "the Queens birthday as well", republicans hate that, so might as well get rid of it.

"Labour Day" well the business community pay for it, but probably don't want to celebrate it, so in fairness to them, chuck it out as well.

Also in fairness to the Muslims and other religions, why should they have to celebrate Easter and Christmas? So you may as well chuck those public holidays out as well.

There must be others, but I have to head off for Aussie day celebrations.


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## SirRumpole (26 January 2018)

Respectful protests ?


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## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

Come on Rumpy, let's get behind the call for no public holidays, then we can start the call for equity in the welfare system.

Jeez I left school at 15, never had a day on welfare, I paid income tax for 40 years, why can't we have equality with pension payments same as most Countries?
You only get a pension commensurate with your working years, if you worked 40 years and paid taxes, you get full pension, if you have never worked you get no pension.
Of course those who can't work due to disability, would be treated differently, those who are able bodied shouldn't be exempt.
I mean Australia day is about a fair go for everyone, not for everyone who wants to take the piss. 
Jeez why shouldn't those who have worked all their lives, complain about those who haven't worked.
Like I said, don't take it out of context, some can't work, but many who can don't ,then they claim the pension.
How about some equality, for those who have put in the hard yards?


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## wayneL (26 January 2018)

Public holidays? 

I worked from 530am till now...  810pm

Should just make it home in time for the dregs of the keg.


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## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

While we're on this silly ideology, of getting paid for a day off, to celebrate a public holiday.

Why don't we focus on other days, that we really don't need, and can save money on?

Like Mother's day, what a nonsense, now we recognise same sex marriage, who is the mother?
May as well chuck out Father's day as well, what a joke, we will just meld into a 365 day a year life.

We certainly are embracing a whole new world, with a whole new norm. I love it, it is so funny.

This is social engineering out of control, establishment couldn't have wished for better, the herd is dumb.


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## SirRumpole (26 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Like Mother's day, what a nonsense, now we recognise same sex marriage, who is the mother?
> May as well chuck out Father's day as well, what a joke, we will just meld into a 365 day a year life.




Valentine's Day and Halloween can go too. Imported rubbish.


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## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> Public holidays?
> 
> I worked from 530am till now...  810pm
> 
> Should just make it home in time for the dregs of the keg.




Yes I know how you feel, I worked shift work most of my working career.

I just can't believe how stupid people are, to be forcing the cancellation of a public holiday, public opinion or media pressure will bring it about.

Then there is an instant increase in productivity, talk about rope a dope, I can't believe how dumb people are.

Why wouldn't the government, just say they are moving Australia day to the third Sunday of January, because of public outrage and respect for indigenous people?

Then they just have to deal with Easter friday and monday, just move them to saturday and sunday, Christmas may take longer. LOL


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## fiftyeight (26 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Cancel the public holiday, for invasion day, if that's what they want.






sptrawler said:


> Come on Rumpy, let's get behind the call for no public holidays, then we can start the call for equity in the welfare system.




Haha, did you even read my posts??? I am arguing for more public holidays (which I don't enjoy in my job)



sptrawler said:


> Jeez I left school at 15, never had a day on welfare, I paid income tax for 40 years




What an Australian hero, there is probably not another person out there who has done it harder.



wayneL said:


> Public holidays?
> I worked from 530am till now...  810pm




Another hero!!!


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## CanOz (26 January 2018)

Happy birthday Australia, you're one helluva country....!


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## wayneL (26 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Haha, did you even read my posts??? I am arguing for more public holidays (which I don't enjoy in my job)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Another smartarse


----------



## fiftyeight (26 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> I worked from 530am till now...  810pm




Well unlike my hero I only worked 13.5 hours today. I am a bit of slacker but at least I now have a goal. Hopefully by Jan 26 next year I can match @wayneL  epic worth ethic and I can sustain it for 40+ years like @sptrawler . **** I hope they don't make Australia Day earlier in the year, I wont have enough time to build my work endurance. Be careful what you wish for aye guys.

But as work is drawing to a close I will remove myself from this conversation so I can have a long hard look at myself to find out why I only worked 13.5hours today and why I have only worked for the past 18 years. Ill give my mum a call maybe I could of been born in the 70's instead of the 80's?


----------



## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Well unlike my hero I only worked 13.5 hours today. I am a bit of slacker but at least I now have a goal. Hopefully by Jan 26 next year I can match @wayneL  epic worth ethic and I can sustain it for 40+ years like @sptrawler . **** I hope they don't make Australia Day earlier in the year, I wont have enough time to build my work endurance. Be careful what you wish for aye guys.
> 
> But as work is drawing to a close I will remove myself from this conversation so I can have a long hard look at myself to find out why I only worked 13.5hours today and why I have only worked for the past 18 years. Ill give my mum a call maybe I could of been born in the 70's instead of the 80's?




Don't worry, you sound like a legend.
I'm sure your mum is thrilled to bits with you.
If she isn't, it doesn't matter, you're thrilled to bits with yourself. lol


----------



## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Haha, did you even read my posts??? I am arguing for more public holidays (which I don't enjoy in my job)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually my responses weren't aimed at you, just a general observation about the call for changing public holidays, sorry if it offended you.


----------



## DB008 (26 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> Public holidays?
> 
> I worked from 530am till now... 810pm




You work to hard WayneL


----------



## Macquack (26 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> It's a bit sad really that those who denounce colonisation, don't hesitate to avail themselves of the trappings of it.



Its a bit tough being a hunter and gatherer living in downtown Redfern these days.

Do the trappings of colonialism include introducing new diseases, pests, air and water pollution, resource pillaging, urban sprawl, traffic gridlock, alcohol and drug abuse etc?


----------



## sptrawler (26 January 2018)

Macquack said:


> Its a bit tough being a hunter and gatherer living in downtown Redfern these days.
> 
> Do the trappings of colonialism include introducing new diseases, pests, air and water pollution, resource pillaging, urban sprawl, traffic gridlock, alcohol and drug abuse etc?




I suppose you have to compare that, to no substantial structures of any kind, no sanitation and living from hand to mouth and water hole to water hole, 200 years ago.

Then you have to think, would that civilization still be living like that now, or would the Dutch or Spanish or Portugese have settled here?
Then you could look at Indonesia, Phillipines, Malaysia, to see what the outcome would be.

I guess being a hunter gatherer in Redfern, is better than being a hunter gatherer in most Asian Countries?
Just my opinion


----------



## SirRumpole (27 January 2018)

Macquack said:


> Its a bit tough being a hunter and gatherer living in downtown Redfern these days.
> 
> Do the trappings of colonialism include introducing new diseases, pests, air and water pollution, resource pillaging, urban sprawl, traffic gridlock, alcohol and drug abuse etc?




If there was no white men in Australia it would be a Japanese colony now and the natives would have been wiped out.

I've said it before, but the Aborigines are what they are because they want to be. They won't accept white man's help because it's an admission of failure on their behalf. The game is over, the white man is here and they are not going anywhere. I'm afraid it's long overdue for the aborigines to accept that and accept the benefits in health and education that come with it.


----------



## Tisme (27 January 2018)

I have only had one sick day in my whole working career. I generally don't take annual holidays, I pay tax, have donated heaps to charities, but I don't mind that people have social welfare safety nets; something that would have come in handy when I was a child watching other kids enjoy the kind of things my mother couldn't provide.

What I don't like is the enterprise bereft professional students using my money to destroy our social fabric and turn it into a marxist regime.




sptrawler said:


> Come on Rumpy, let's get behind the call for no public holidays, then we can start the call for equity in the welfare system.
> 
> Jeez I left school at 15, never had a day on welfare, I paid income tax for 40 years, why can't we have equality with pension payments same as most Countries?
> You only get a pension commensurate with your working years, if you worked 40 years and paid taxes, you get full pension, if you have never worked you get no pension.
> ...


----------



## drsmith (27 January 2018)

Someone else in Labor is saying more about Australia Day than Bill Shorten,

https://startsat60.com/news/politic...sts-as-anthony-albanese-calls-for-referendums


----------



## Logique (27 January 2018)

I'd simply ask those groups objecting to 26 January to nominate their preferred date.  But a caution - good luck prising away from Australians that last long weekend before school goes back

Because this isn't really about the chosen date. It's about political grandstanding.


----------



## fiftyeight (27 January 2018)

Logique said:


> I'd simply ask those groups objecting to 26 January to nominate their preferred date.  But a caution - good luck prising away from Australians that last long weekend before school goes back
> 
> Because this isn't really about the chosen date. It's about political grandstanding.




Why cant we have another 4 day weekend? It is not an either or we can celebrate Aboriginal culture and Australia culture as a whole. You want to get everyone on side, give them another day off in summer!!!!


----------



## drsmith (27 January 2018)

Top story on the ABC this evening is Triple J's non-Australia Day Hottest 100.


----------



## sptrawler (27 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Why cant we have another 4 day weekend? It is not an either or we can celebrate Aboriginal culture and Australia culture as a whole. You want to get everyone on side, give them another day off in summer!!!!




Why does it have to be a long weekend? if it isn't about Australia day, why can't it be a Sunday, if any other day will do?


----------



## BlownAccount (27 January 2018)

websman said:


> Happy Australia day Dudes!
> 
> Wayne, that article was interesting.  Is there that many American haters over there?
> 
> Heck man, I'm proud to be American and I'm proud that I have the freedom to carry a gun if I want.  that's what freedom is about.  Plus, we have cheap gas...or petrol as you guys call it.



Im a proud Australian yet would much rather live in the great USofA. True land of the free...


----------



## sptrawler (28 January 2018)

BlownAccount said:


> Im a proud Australian yet would much rather live in the great USofA. True land of the free...




From what I've heard, it's land off the free as long as you have money.

Not so good, if you don't have money.


----------



## wayneL (28 January 2018)

It pains me as someone who spent half my youth in the US, unless they can control their cultural Marxixts, The USofA is ####ed.... big time


----------



## fiftyeight (28 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Why does it have to be a long weekend? if it isn't about Australia day, why can't it be a Sunday, if any other day will do?




4 day weekends are fun and we should have more of them. I work 22 weeks per year and that is 22 week too many


----------



## Logique (28 January 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Why cant we have another 4 day weekend? It is not an either or we can celebrate Aboriginal culture and Australia culture as a whole. You want to get everyone on side, give them another day off in summer!!!!



Naidoc Week runs for ..a week. http://www.naidoc.org.au/   Next on 8-15 July 2018.  A Public Hol could be added in there if so decided. Or rather, transfer the January one (but good luck on that!)

".._NAIDOC Week celebrations are held across Australia each July to celebrate the history, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. NAIDOC is celebrated not only in Indigenous communities, but by Australians from all walks of life. The week is a great opportunity to participate in a range of activities and to support your local Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community_."


----------



## Tisme (28 January 2018)

BlownAccount said:


> Im a proud Australian yet would much rather live in the great USofA. True land of the free...





How long have you been there?  The USofA actually lives on a various layers of fear e.g. fear of failure, fear of poverty, fear of ill health, fear of unemployment, fear of violence, fear of offending, fear of speaking their minds, fear of the state, etc all in various degrees of concern, but it manifests the brute force of fear by the gun totem.

Australia is one of the last places where you can talk your mind to someone on the street without being too concerned about retribution or being ostracised,


----------



## fiftyeight (28 January 2018)

Logique said:


> Naidoc Week runs for ..a week. http://www.naidoc.org.au/   Next on 8-15 July 2018.  A Public Hol could be added in there if so decided. Or rather, transfer the January one (but good luck on that!)
> 
> ".._NAIDOC Week celebrations are held across Australia each July to celebrate the history, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. NAIDOC is celebrated not only in Indigenous communities, but by Australians from all walks of life. The week is a great opportunity to participate in a range of activities and to support your local Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community_."




Fantastic idea. Something I would get behind if there was a push for it. Not sure it would appease the left but that is not the goal.


----------



## BlownAccount (28 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> How long have you been there?  The USofA actually lives on a various layers of fear e.g. fear of failure, fear of poverty, fear of ill health, fear of unemployment, fear of violence, fear of offending, fear of speaking their minds, fear of the state, etc all in various degrees of concern, but it manifests the brute force of fear by the gun totem.
> 
> Australia is one of the last places where you can talk your mind to someone on the street without being too concerned about retribution or being ostracised,




Hi Tisme, i havent been but would still go. Even if what you say is true i could rationalise it on many levels, afterall the US is the epicentre of the forces which have collided upon mankind. Its doctrine of freedom appeals to me. The bill of rights and freedoms they afford are an important doctrine. I much rather that the US prevailed than any other major player. For instance, if the US didnt get involved in fighting the Japs then Australia would have been under occupation by the Japs. If the US didnt get involved with fighting the Germans then those without the correct genes would be all dead. 
They have a republic with enshrined rights, we dont even have a bills of rights here in Australia. I would love the stand your ground rules here. The right to bear arms. People are scared of lots of things in this world, i would be more inclined to be fearful of a world which didnt have the US in it..
If we were to speak of gun crime, i would simply state that more people die from botched medical procedures and probably from health professionals not washing their hands. The important tenant to me is that one should be careful in allowing centralised power. In the US the citizens have power an armed public affords. 

There is a great history podcast called hardcore history. Check it out as there is hundreds of hours of epic history for one to gain an understanding of where we have been as a species. 
Anyways yes, i am a fan of the great US of A. Sure they are not perfect but i find it important to know they are dealing with all the forces that are indemic within all societies. 

I listened to a podcast the other day on China's social scoring system which they plan on having online for every citizen by 2020. Scary stuff imo. Centralised powers have traditionally been very dangerous to their populations. I rather live in a country that allows the population to be armed to the teeth. Has rights which are enenshrined. 

It wasn't long ago here in Australia that i signed a petition for a guy who was arrested and charged with murder after he woke up to a convicted rapist in his daughters room in the middle of the night. 
Im not trying to change your mind on anything and am not phased if you have a different opinion than i. 
Cheers


----------



## SirRumpole (28 January 2018)

Yep, the USA is a great country. Kids and adults die because they can't afford health insurance. You can't get a uni education unless your parents are rich. The right to bear arms is a farce driven by armaments manufacturers who induce a state of paranoia in the population by encouraging the odd massacre and then justifying the purchase of arms for the majority for protection.

Their current leader is a dunce, and police shoot innocent women for reporting crimes, as well as black people for being poor.

Sure they were our protectors in WW2, but does that mean we give them unconditional loyalty ? If they don't realise what is wrong with their country then they can't put it right.


----------



## BlownAccount (28 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> From what I've heard, it's land off the free as long as you have money.
> 
> Not so good, if you don't have money.




Yeah true though money can be gotten by working for it. To many people dont want to work. Imo the state does people a disservice by to readily giving money to people to not work. One also doesnt even require a business to provide gainful employment to get money and a living -without breaking laws. There are precious metals in the ground to be gotten. I actually prospect for gold for relaxation. 
Cheers


----------



## dutchie (28 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> It pains me as someone who spent half my youth in the US, unless they can control their cultural Marxixts, The USofA is ####ed.... big time




Agreed, especially if their universities are an indication of their society. 

(Jordan Peterson is their only hope and no doubt he will be shut down one way or another, sooner or later)


----------



## bellenuit (28 January 2018)

dutchie said:


> Agreed, especially if their universities are an indication of their society.
> 
> (Jordan Peterson is their only hope and no doubt he will be shut down one way or another, sooner or later)




Isn't he Canadian.


----------



## dutchie (28 January 2018)

bellenuit said:


> Isn't he Canadian.



Yes he is a Canadian, now a Professor at the University of Toronto. Previously he was a Professor at Harvard.
Canada and the USA are both heading along the same paths so his lectures/videos apply to both countries (and most western countries including Australia).
Watch his interview in the Feminism thread to see how universal his work (destroying the Left) is.


----------



## IFocus (28 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> It pains me as someone who spent half my youth in the US, unless they can control their cultural Marxixts, The USofA is ####ed.... big time




Problem is Repubs radicalized their base and got the Tea Party / white Nazi Party and Trump I wonder how long before we start seeing Nazi salutes in the Congress/ Senate.


----------



## wayneL (29 January 2018)

IFocus said:


> Problem is Repubs radicalized their base and got the Tea Party / white Nazi Party and Trump I wonder how long before we start seeing Nazi salutes in the Congress/ Senate.



Bit of a long bow there Ifocus.

But that said,  the rise of the extreme right is inevitable as a consequence of the extreme left pushing too hard.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> But that said, the rise of the extreme right is inevitable as a consequence of the extreme left pushing too hard.




I think it's the other way around really.

The "extreme Left" in the USA is probably extremely minute and a result of people like the Tea Party getting more influence in the US.

The US has never been known to have active Leftist groups throughout its history especially after the McCarthy witch hunts which was contrived bs anyway.


----------



## wayneL (29 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I think it's the other way around really.
> 
> The "extreme Left" in the USA is probably extremely minute and a result of people like the Tea Party getting more influence in the US.
> 
> The US has never been known to have active Leftist groups throughout its history especially after the McCarthy witch hunts which was contrived bs anyway.



Well yes,  it does work both ways. But you must admit the current push is to the extreme left,  the reaction, in the US at least,  is standard conservatism,  not fascism. 

Europe is different,  neo Nazi type groups are gaining momentum because of, and a reaction to the oppressive neo Marxism.


----------



## Value Collector (29 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yep it will be flag burning next.
> 
> Probably some commie pinko radical idiots.




I love living in a country that is so free, you can burn its flag.

Didn't you say you didn't like the oppressiveness of countries like china? yet you agree with them on the nationalist stuff, weird.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2018)

Value Collector said:


> I love living in a country that is so free, you can burn its flag.
> 
> Didn't you say you didn't like the oppressiveness of countries like china? yet you agree with them on the nationalist stuff, weird.





I was being slightly tongue in cheek, but flag burning is a sign of contempt for what our nation stands for. 

People who live here should be standing up for the country unless they have a good reason not to, in which case they should move elsewhere. They have that freedom too.


----------



## Value Collector (29 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> but flag burning is a sign of contempt for what our nation stands for.
> 
> .




Even so, I much prefer a free nation than a totalitarian one, which would punish people


> People who live here should be standing up for the country unless they have a good reason not to, in which case they should move elsewhere.




I think our country has been improved by the many social movements we have had over the last 150 years or so.

the solution to a problem isn't always to just leave, the solution can be to protest and enact change.

but either way.

whether they are right or wrong, I like it that people have the right to protest, including burning the flag.


----------



## cynic (29 January 2018)

Try burning the indigenous Australians' flag, and then wait those few microseconds for the reaction, before presuming to be able to judge, just how "free" this country has become!

Edit: If one doesn't happen to have an indigenous flag at hand, a gay flag will serve as ample substitute.


----------



## Value Collector (29 January 2018)

cynic said:


> Try burning the indigenous Australians' flag, and then wait those few microseconds for the reaction, before presuming to be able to judge, just how "free" this country has become!
> 
> Edit: If one doesn't happen to have an indigenous flag at hand, a gay flag will serve as ample substitute.




You can lawfully burn those in protest too.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2018)

Value Collector said:


> You can lawfully burn those in protest too.




Yes and watch the ABC get on its high horse about suppression of minorities.


----------



## dutchie (29 January 2018)

Tarneen Onus-Williams told a crowd of thousands “F**k Australia, hope it burns to the ground” during an Invasion Day rally in Melbourne on Friday.

She makes her living from our taxes.

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...s/news-story/870aa39f9fc5cf9a42472017a1324de5


----------



## qldfrog (29 January 2018)

Value Collector said:


> You can lawfully burn those in protest too.



are you actually sure of that? I thought a lot of the existing laws against discriminations could actually see you under the court.I hope you are right but I would not even dare going there[not that I have a will/reason to do it, do not take me wrong]


----------



## Tisme (29 January 2018)

If the Portuguese, French or Dutch had colonised the place there probably wouldn't be any aborigines to protest, instead the continent would be modern history of coups and civil wars, if e.g. South America is anything to go by.


----------



## cynic (29 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> If the Portuguese, French or Dutch had colonised the place there probably wouldn't be any aborigines to protest, instead the continent would be modern history of coups and civil wars, if e.g. South America is anything to go by.



The notable absence of indigenous Australians, (with the exception of the token one who lead the potest) didn't seem to present too much of an impediment in Melbourne last friday.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2018)

qldfrog said:


> are you actually sure of that? I thought a lot of the existing laws against discriminations could actually see you under the court.I hope you are right but I would not even dare going there[not that I have a will/reason to do it, do not take me wrong]




Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act



> Offensive behaviour because of race, colour or national or ethnic origin
> 
> (1) It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if:
> 
> ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_18C_of_the_Racial_Discrimination_Act_1975

Naturally some people are going to be offended by burning of a Indigenous flag, but the doing of which is an offence under section 18C. 

So how is that freedom ?


----------



## Value Collector (30 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_18C_of_the_Racial_Discrimination_Act_1975
> ...




If it is a political protest you are good to go,

If you do it while yelling “f##k coons” you are probably not.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 January 2018)

Value Collector said:


> If it is a political protest you are good to go,
> 
> If you do it while yelling “f##k coons” you are probably not.




It's the same thing really isn't it ? People burning the Australian flag are really saying f**k Australia, so burning the aboriginal flag is saying f**k aborigines. One may land you in court, the other is just demonstrating freedom.


----------



## Tisme (30 January 2018)

cynic said:


> The notable absence of indigenous Australians, (with the exception of the token one who lead the potest) didn't seem to present too much of an impediment in Melbourne last friday.




Yes that's a lot of followers per head


----------



## Tisme (30 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_18C_of_the_Racial_Discrimination_Act_1975
> ...




There's  a difference between a Dollar and Cents traditional indigenous flag and one from 60k years ago, although both are fictional and have no provenance in pre-european-muslim aboriginal culture.


----------



## Tisme (30 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> It's the same thing really isn't it ? People burning the Australian flag are really saying f**k Australia, so burning the aboriginal flag is saying f**k aborigines. One may land you in court, the other is just demonstrating freedom.




I fly the flag from my house at about 8 metres, only swapping it for a "Xmas Flag" and a "New Years" flag. I fly it because I like the look of it, I'm not ashamed of being Australian and it's a constant reminder to ar5eholes who is more important ... the nation or social vandals.

So having said that, I couldn't give a rats if some first or second gen migrant, any austral-anglo hating fractional sulking aboriginal, or any acid tongued SJW wants to burn a flag. I say go ahead burn a hundred flags, they can burn all the polyester and cotton flags they like, not only are they making money for a Chinese factory, but they are making my display all the more important as a totem of pride that I'm not as big an congenital ar5hole are they are, not withstanding their naturally lower IQs.

BTW they aren't saying f**k Australia, they are just attention seeking for the media and their cohorts. The sooner the news stop giving them attention the better


----------



## Value Collector (30 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> It's the same thing really isn't it ? People burning the Australian flag are really saying f**k Australia, .




You would have to ask the protestor, but protesting against the government is protected by freedom of speech laws.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 January 2018)

Value Collector said:


> You would have to ask the protestor, but protesting against the government is protected by freedom of speech laws.




And so it should be, but protesting against minorities is outlawed under the Racial Discrimination Act.


----------



## Value Collector (30 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And so it should be, but protesting against minorities is outlawed under the Racial Discrimination Act.




yeah so as long as your protest is directed towards the government, you can burn what ever you like.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 January 2018)

Value Collector said:


> yeah so as long as your protest is directed towards the government, you can burn what ever you like.




Why only government ? There is a lot of other stuff worth protesting about.


----------



## Tisme (3 February 2018)

Glad the council cleared up this misnomer:











> Yarra Council has returned fire, after claims the council had told workers they would not be allowed to use the term “Australia Day” during last week’s January 26 celebrations.
> By
> Rangi Hirini
> 
> ...


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> Glad the council cleared up this misnomer:
> 
> View attachment 86142




Stupid woman.


----------



## Joules MM1 (26 January 2019)

2019 happy Australia day straya!

don't forget to swim between the flags ..cetra cetra


----------



## cynic (26 January 2019)

Strewth! Ta cobba! 

And a 'appy straya day to all my other cobbas at strine stock forums!


----------



## Joules MM1 (26 January 2019)

cynic said:


> Strewth! Ta cobba!
> 
> And a 'appy straya day to all my other cobbas at strine stock forums!




soz, bloke/blokette ......thatz juss not condy....condy....patro.....ah, buggah!



try this instead


----------



## Darc Knight (26 January 2019)

Happy Straya Day ....... <insert swear word of your choice>


----------



## basilio (27 January 2019)

This one for the books.

Jeff Kennet has come out supporting a change to Australia Day. Intriguing.

Indigenous people ‘brutalised’ from 26 January: Kennett
Author: *Janelle Ward*





The Australia Day debate refuses to go away and each year the furore over the date seems to get louder and attract more support from influential voices.

The latest to speak his mind is former Victorian premier and beyondblue founder Jeff Kennett. He believes that retaining 26 January will “forever put a white line between us and our first peoples”.

“We came here to settle, we formed a colony … as we spread that colony, we dispossessed the First People,” he told _The Australian_.

“For many in the community, (26 January) represents the day they were dispossessed and brutalised. I agree with them.”

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/date-must-be-changed-kennett


----------



## Humid (27 January 2019)

The poms rolling up with a boat load of crooks is hardly worth celebrating 
We can do better


----------



## noirua (27 January 2019)

*Australia Day* is the official national day of Australia. Celebrated annually on 26 January, it marks the anniversary of the 1788 arrival of the First Fleet of British ships at Port Jackson, New South Wales, and the raising of the Flag of Great Britain at Sydney Cove by Governor Arthur Phillip. In present-day Australia, celebrations reflect the diverse society and landscape of the nation and are marked by community and family events, reflections on Australian history, official community awards and citizenship ceremonies welcoming new members of the Australian community.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Day

Prior to Australia day 2019, the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) released a poll that 75% of Australians wanted the date to stay, and Advance Australia's poll had support at 71%, although both groups asked questions about pride in being Australian prior to the headline question.[80]

A poll conducted by The Australia Institute in 2018 found that 56% do not mind what day it is held.[78] The same poll found that 49% believe that the date should not be on a date that is offensive to Indigenous Australian, but only 37% believed the current date was offensive.[79]

A January 2017 Guardian poll found that 68% of Australians felt positive about Australia Day, 19% were indifferent and 7% had mixed feelings, with 6% feeling negative about Australia Day. Among Indigenous Australians, however, only 23% felt positive about Australia Day, 31% were negative and 30% had mixed feelings, with 54% favouring a change of date.[9] A September 2017 poll conducted for _The Guardian_revealed that only 26% of Australians supported changing the date of Australia Day.[77]


----------



## noirua (28 January 2019)

The remains of a noted Royal Navy explorer who led the first known circumnavigation of *Australia* have been *found* by archeologists excavating a *burial* ground where a railway station is planned. The archaeologists identified the remains of Captain Matthew Flinders by the lead plate placed on top of his coffin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Flinders


----------



## Logique (1 February 2019)

How to kill off a tv series - reschedule it, reschedule it again, finally people stop looking.

How to kill off Australia Day - reschedule it, reschedule it again, finally it loses meaning.

Let's not kid ourselves about the real agenda of the urban activists


----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2019)

How to kill off Australia Day, and any other public holiday - turn it into a normal Monday by killing off penalty rates and shift allowances for workers: the real agenda of the right.


----------



## rederob (1 February 2019)

Logique said:


> Let's not kid ourselves about the real agenda of the urban activists



Can you please translate that into a sense.


----------



## Junior (1 February 2019)

This piece from Wikipedia is key.....celebrations in *present day Australia*.  It's not a celebration of white people arriving, it's celebrating Australia *as it is today and reflecting on our history*.  The date should really be irrelevant as long as the event has positive and inclusive celebrations for all Aussies.



> In present-day Australia, celebrations reflect the diverse society and landscape of the nation and are marked by community and family events, reflections on Australian history, official community awards and citizenship ceremonies welcoming new members of the Australian community.


----------



## Darc Knight (1 February 2019)

More important things to worry about. Nothing to see here, move along please


----------



## Logique (1 February 2019)

75% of Australians think it's very important, on recent polling. They want 26 January retained.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 February 2019)

where did you get that from? The Australian institute says celebrating Australia Day is very important (84%) but 56% don't care what day we pick.
http://www.tai.org.au/sites/defualt/files/Polling Brief - Australia Day.pdf


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## Humid (1 February 2019)

Junior said:


> This piece from Wikipedia is key.....celebrations in *present day Australia*.  It's not a celebration of white people arriving, it's celebrating Australia *as it is today and reflecting on our history*.  The date should really be irrelevant as long as the event has positive and inclusive celebrations for all Aussies.




Which just happens to be the day when white people arrived.....


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## jbocker (2 February 2019)

Humid said:


> Which just happens to be the day when white people arrived.....



With respect No it wasn't. Many Europeans arrived many times long before the 'first fleet' arrived. New Holland, Great South Land, Terra Australis were some former names before 'Australia' was adopted as a name, which I understand is simply a shortened name (from Terra Australis).
I cannot recall a land mass on earth that hasn't been invaded, it is said even the Native Aboriginal invaded the 'Australian' land mass.
I don't have any real problem changing the date, so long as it is a day of celebrating a nation and all its inhabitants. And end the divisiveness. Some things in history really suck. We should work together on not repeating those things.


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## Logique (2 February 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> where did you get that from? The Australian institute says celebrating Australia Day is very important (84%) but 56% don't care what day we pick.
> http://www.tai.org.au/sites/defualt/files/Polling Brief - Australia Day.pdf



Warning, paywall. 







> Australia Day 2019: Greens push to move date rejected by poll vote ...
> https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/...polling...australia-day.../a3934f07d6e36e9122504...
> Jan 15, 2019 - Exclusive polling data shows *75 per cent* of Aussies want to keep Australia Day on January 26. ...Australians have *overwhelmingly rejected the fierce push by rogue councils and the Greens* to move their national day from January 26. ...



We could go back to 25 October 1616 I suppose, Dirk Hartog's landfall at Shark Bay. Not that this would be any more acceptable to the activists.. In the modern day Australia, withdrawing a long weekend in late January, just before school goes back - good luck with that!


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## Knobby22 (2 February 2019)

Yea, can't see it. Probably all Queenlanders who read the Daily Telegraph   
Leunig had a good idea. Why not go through the weather records and pick a day most suitable for a picnic!


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## rederob (2 February 2019)

Logique said:


> We could go back to 25 October 1616 I suppose, Dirk Hartog's landfall at Shark Bay. Not that this would be any more acceptable to the activists.



Dirk Hartog did not "*invade*" Australia.
I guess that people who think we should celebrate a day which began the destruction of the world's oldest culture means I  am an "*activist*".
An interesting twist.


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## rederob (2 February 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Yea, can't see it. Probably all Queenlanders who read the Daily Telegraph
> Leunig had a good idea. Why not go through the weather records and pick a day most suitable for a picnic!



I just consulted the Business Council of Australia and the Australian Industry Group, and they both confirmed that it will be *yesterday*.


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## Knobby22 (2 February 2019)

rederob said:


> Dirk Hartog did not "*invade*" Australia.
> I guess that people who think we should celebrate a day which began the destruction of the world's oldest culture means I  am an "*activist*".
> An interesting twist.



You are an activist because you want change. You are a Conservative if you want everything to not change. It's a little bit genetic according to some studies. I don't like change but can understand it has to take place.


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## rederob (2 February 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> You are an activist because you want change. You are a Conservative if you want everything to not change. It's a little bit genetic according to some studies. I don't like change but can understand it has to take place.



There's no logic to that.
You are mixing too many senses.
An historian who discovers that Australia Day was previously celebrated on many different days in past years is not an activist as the date of celebration has been arbitrary.
Captain Cook landed at Botany Bay on 28 April 1770, and it was a fair while before the First Fleet turned up.
As far back as 1938 Aboriginal leaders met in Sydney for a Day of Mourning to protest at their mistreatment by white Australians and to seek full citizen rights.
Back in 1946 the Nationality and Citizenship Act created provided for Australian citizenship ceremonies yet we were still officially British subjects.
"Invasion Day" goes back 30 years, so what some people think about this being a new phenomenon are just poorly informed.
Personally, a reconciliation day makes more sense than a day which continues to be divisive.


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## wayneL (2 February 2019)

Rederob,  are you aware of the concept og "Conquest" under International law prior to 1932.

I would be really careful about legally making it an invasion , as indigenous folks would lose their unique rights as they stand under the doctrine of settlement.


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## rederob (2 February 2019)

wayneL said:


> Rederob,  are you aware of the concept og "Conquest" under International law prior to 1932.
> 
> I would be really careful about legally making it an invasion , as indigenous folks would lose their unique rights as they stand under the doctrine of settlement.



Not sure how you got to where you did from my comments.
I leave that with you.


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## Humid (2 February 2019)

jbocker said:


> With respect No it wasn't. Many Europeans arrived many times long before the 'first fleet' arrived. New Holland, Great South Land, Terra Australis were some former names before 'Australia' was adopted as a name, which I understand is simply a shortened name (from Terra Australis).
> I cannot recall a land mass on earth that hasn't been invaded, it is said even the Native Aboriginal invaded the 'Australian' land mass.
> I don't have any real problem changing the date, so long as it is a day of celebrating a nation and all its inhabitants. And end the divisiveness. Some things in history really suck. We should work together on not repeating those things.




Thanks for the history lesson
But I think the point is they didn’t go home this time


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## Logique (24 January 2020)

2020 is not the year for divisiveness about the selected date. 

Here's hoping it's all in good spirits and otherwise uneventful on 26 Jan


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## Value Collector (24 January 2020)

My only hope is that on this Australia Day we Ignore the corporate marketing that says we should hurt innocent sheep, and choose a more moral meals.

Avoid Lamb, it simply isn't Australian to take advantage of the innocent.

Sad part is the slaughter industry messes with people minds, and the people in the video are victims as much as the animals, and have higher rates of suicide, domestic violence, alcoholism and drug problems than the rest of the community.

Support Australians and avoid slaughter house products.


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## sptrawler (24 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> How to kill off Australia Day, and any other public holiday - turn it into a normal Monday by killing off penalty rates and shift allowances for workers: the real agenda of the right.



12 hour shifts, annualised salaries, seven day shopping and rolling days killed off penalty rates years ago, it was just a slow death.
All that remains to be killed off is public holidays, the last bastion, but it will be traded away.
I always said in negotiations, never trade conditions for money, always take conditions in lieu of money, they can always be sold at a later date.
But conditions can only be sold once, money devalues forever. Wow that is the left wing union part of me getting fired up, it has been a while since that happened.


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## MovingAverage (25 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> All that remains to be killed off is public holidays,




If memory serves me correct didn't this start many years ago...I seem to recall Kennett removing some Victorian public holidays many years ago


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## Humid (25 January 2020)

https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/20...en-and-gold-malaria-for-our-firefighters.html


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## SirRumpole (26 January 2020)

If it wasn't the Brits, it would have been some other country like Holland or Spain.

Jan 26th celebrates the start date of modern Australia and should be kept as a date.

If those with a victim mentality don't like it, I think we could create a "National Indigenous Day" so they can have a day of their own, which the rest of us will share of course with another holiday.


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## bellenuit (26 January 2020)

I have no problem with them changing the date as long it is a decision made at a national level with broad support. What I cannot stand are these local government bodies, usually Green or Left dominated, unilaterally deciding that they will not accept the current date and making alternative arrangements for celebrations or citizenship ceremonies and using the current date for protest. As usual, they hold the average Aussie in contempt and undeserving of an opinion that differs from theirs.


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## Humid (26 January 2020)

What you get without compulsory voting pretty much


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## MovingAverage (26 January 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I have no problem with them changing the date as long it is a decision made at a national level with broad support. What I cannot stand are these local government bodies, usually Green or Left dominated, unilaterally deciding that they will not accept the current date and making alternative arrangements for celebrations or citizenship ceremonies and using the current date for protest. As usual, they hold the average Aussie in contempt and undeserving of an opinion that differs from theirs.




Couldn’t agree more. Topics like this can go sideways pretty quickly when debated on forums and not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but we are going down the same path of political correctness that is rife in the US so sadly I fear that many of our “British” traditions will be cast aside in the name of not offending anyone. Happy holidays all


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## IFocus (26 January 2020)

I think we should celebrate modern Australia and its achievements however there needs to be a celebration / serious recognition of the indigenous previous 60,000 years of culture etc and yes that means another public holiday / long weekend. Why....because that's Australian oi oi oi.

Otherwise its just going to be an ongoing bleeding sore.

The sporting codes that run the indigenous rounds are fantastic weeks and you can see the pride it brings plus I just love the indigenous art seriously there should be more of it.

Plus I would like to see more indigenous language being used mainstream its so unique and absolutely quantifiable as Australian.

Its such a shame we waste the opportunity.


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## sptrawler (26 January 2020)

Another public holiday, is the best way to do it, great idea ifocus.
The more public holidays the better.IMO


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## Logique (27 January 2020)

Move Australia Day to better recognize indigenous peoples?
Move where to - it's already a pretty full calendar. Look it's all fine by me, but let's not pretend that changing the date would satisfy the activists.

The best of the *NRL’s Indigenous and Mãori players* are going head to head for the ultimate cultural showdown at Cbus Super Stadium on Saturday *22 February 2020*.

*AFL Indigenous Round 9*

https://indigenousportal.eq.edu.au/resources/dates/Pages/dates.aspx
26 January - Australia Day/Survival Day
*On Australia Day, the National Australia Day Council (NADC) recognises the unique status of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples*. The NADC advises that it is committed to playing a part in the journey of Reconciliation by helping all Australians to move forward with a better understanding of our shared past, and importantly how this affects the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today and how we might build a better future together.
For more information visit the Australia Day website.

*13 February - National Apology Anniversary*
Anniversary of the formal apology made on 13 February 2008 by the Government and the Parliament of Australia to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in particular to the Stolen Generations.

*15 March - National Close the Gap Day*
The day gives people the opportunity to show their support for closing the life expectancy gap between Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and other Australians. It is a chance for organisations and communities to hold events and raise awareness of the Indigenous health crisis.

For more information visit the National Close the Gap Day.

*26 May - National Sorry Day*
National Sorry Day offers the community the opportunity to acknowledge the impact of the policies spanning more than 150 years of forcible removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families. The first National Sorry Day was held on 26 May 1998 following the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission report, Bringing Them Home: The 'Stolen Children' report (1997) which recommended that a national day of observance be declared.

For more information visit the ANTaR.

*27 May to 3 June - National Reconciliation Week*
Each year, National Reconciliation Week celebrates the rich culture and history of the first Australians. The week provides an opportunity to reflect on achievements so far and the things which must still be done to achieve reconciliation.

For more information visit the National Reconciliation Week.

*3 June - Mabo day*
Mabo day marks the anniversary of the High Court of Australia's judgement in 1992 in the Mabo case. This is a day of particular significance for Torres Strait Islander Australians.

For more information visit the Mabo - The Native Title Revolution website.

*1 July - Coming of the Light*
The Coming of the Light festival marks the day London Missionary Society first arrived in the Torres Strait. The missionaries landed at Erub Island on 1 July 1871, introducing Christianity to the region.

For more information visit The Torres Strait.

*8-15 July - National NAIDOC Week*
NAIDOC celebrations are held around Australia to celebrate the history, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

The week is celebrated not just within the Indigenous community, but also increasingly in government agencies, schools, local councils and workplaces.

Wherever you live, taking part in NAIDOC Week is a great way to celebrate Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures and to build bridges between all Australians.

For more information visit the National NAIDOC Week.

*4 August - National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children's Day*
National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children’s Day was established by the Secretariat of National Aboriginal and Islander Child Care (SNAICC) in 1988. Each year, SNAICC has a theme for Children's Day to highlight a significant issue, concern or hope for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children.

For more information visit the SNAICC website.

*9 August - International Day of the World's Indigenous People*
The United Nations' International Day of the World’s Indigenous People is observed on 9 August each year to promote and protect the rights of the World’s Indigenous population. This event also recognises the achievements and contributions that Indigenous people make to improve world issues such as environmental protection.

For more information visit the International Day of the World's Indigenous Peoples.

*5 September - Indigenous Literacy Day*
Indigenous Literacy Day is held to raise literacy levels and improve the lives and opportunities of Indigenous Australians living in remote and isolated regions.

For more information visit the Indigenous Literacy Day.


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## rederob (27 January 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I have no problem with them changing the date as long it is a decision made at a national level with broad support.



Exactly how is that relevant when only a very small fraction of the population identify as ATSI and it is *they who are offended* by the date?
An extension of your argument and those of others above would suggest it's OK to now overrun  backward PNG, populate it with a massive majority of WASPs, and celebrate the invasion day.
When I put this idea to others they say "*but things are different now*."  And I agree that "things" are different.  
But back then Australia was still "*invaded,*" aborigines were dispossessed of their lands, diseases decimated their population and thousands of others were hunted down and shot to death.
If that is the type of legacy you think deserves celebration, then I for one *am definitely not on board* and never have been.


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## SirRumpole (27 January 2020)

rederob said:


> Exactly how is that relevant when only a very small fraction of the population identify as ATSI and it is *they who are offended* by the date?
> An extension of your argument and those of others above would suggest it's OK to now overrun  backward PNG, populate it with a massive majority of WASPs, and celebrate the invasion day.
> When I put this idea to others they say "*but things are different now*."  And I agree that "things" are different.
> But back then Australia was still "*invaded,*" aborigines were dispossessed of their lands, diseases decimated their population and thousands of others were hunted down and shot to death.
> If that is the type of legacy you think deserves celebration, then I for one *am definitely not on board* and never have been.




Rob, what you are suggesting is that current Australians have to take responsibility for the wrongs of our ancestors.

This has never been appropriate, in the same way as we don't make current Germans responsible for the Nazi's acts in WW2.

There is no doubt that the arrival of western civilisation resulted in the standard of living we all enjoy today, albeit with some warts like pollution etc.

Which is why I support the current date remaining. As @Logique has pointed out, there are plenty of days/weeks to celebrate indigenous events.


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## wayneL (27 January 2020)

rederob said:


> Exactly how is that relevant when only a very small fraction of the population identify as ATSI and it is *they who are offended* by the date?
> An extension of your argument and those of others above would suggest it's OK to now overrun  backward PNG, populate it with a massive majority of WASPs, and celebrate the invasion day.
> When I put this idea to others they say "*but things are different now*."  And I agree that "things" are different.
> But back then Australia was still "*invaded,*" aborigines were dispossessed of their lands, diseases decimated their population and thousands of others were hunted down and shot to death.
> If that is the type of legacy you think deserves celebration, then I for one *am definitely not on board* and never have been.



No surprises there then.


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## IFocus (27 January 2020)

If its going to be Australia Day then it needs to be the federation date (that's when Australia actually kicked off) the current date really doesn't make sense if you are celebrating Australia as it just represents the start of white settlement the joint was here long before then. 

I think its common sense and while we are at it we have a another day off and spend the day speaking indigenous, just did a google search couldn't find one phase lots of words but no sentences!


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## wayneL (27 January 2020)

One should be very careful of terminology and it's legal meaning, vis-a-vis getting what they wish for.

The word invasion has a very specific meaning in international law, especially prior to 1928 which is the period in question (spec. Law of Conquest).

Indigenous people have far more rights under international law if the terminology is settlement. This is not to say that there were not atrocities, we all know that there were. This is not unlike any period in history in any other geographical part of the world.

As mentioned, no person alive were involved with such atrocities. We should rightly express regret and promote reconciliation from both sides. All the invasion day rhetoric does is promote division and set back the process of reconciliation decades.

As to the date, I am in agreeance with bellanuit and Horace, with some sympathy for IFocus' view regarding Federation.

But it would be nice to have a sensible debate about it rather than it becoming so visceral and divisive.

FWIW

<ETA> I hate autocorrect!


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## rederob (27 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Rob, what you are suggesting is that current Australians have to take responsibility for the wrongs of our ancestors.



No Rumpy it is not about taking "*responsibility*".
It's about what is being *celebrated*.







SirRumpole said:


> There is no doubt that the arrival of western civilisation resulted in the standard of living we all enjoy today, albeit with some warts like pollution etc.



So prove that to ATSI communities!


IFocus said:


> If its going to be Australia Day then it needs to be the federation date (that's when Australia actually kicked off) the current date really doesn't make sense if you are celebrating Australia as it just represents the start of white settlement the joint was here long before then.



I agree it gave us "nationhood," but is that good enough?
I would propose calling the day "*Heritage Day*" thereby allowing everyone to celebrate whatever it means to them as we are a majority nation of immigrants who have blended in that background with whatever "*Australianess*" we have accepted.


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## Humid (27 January 2020)

wayneL said:


> One should be very careful of terminology and it's legal meaning, vis-a-vis getting what they wish for.
> 
> The word invasion has a very specific meaning in international law, especially prior to 1928 which is the period in question (spec. Law of Conquest).
> 
> ...




https://theconversation.com/yes-thi...in 1788  an international law expert explains


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## wayneL (27 January 2020)

Humid said:


> https://theconversation.com/yes-this-continent-was-invaded-in-1788-an-international-law-expert-explains-130462?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest from The Conversation for January 27 2020 - 1518514467&utm_content=Latest from The Conversation for January 27 2020 - 1518514467+CID_41d4b5ed30695d4272b3667610f31f9a&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Yes this continent was invaded in 1788 an international law expert explains



Okay.

Then the international law of conquest applies as it was prior to 1928.

I personally I'm not comfortable with as it entitles "the invaders" to subjugate the indigenous. It entitles "us" to say stfu.

I don't believe the vast majority of Australians want this. I believe the vast majority of Australians and most of the indigenous people who I have anything to do with, want to strike a reasonable understanding and magnanimous relationship.

Settlement confires a more legal imperative for this, where is invasion does not.

Additionally our learned friend's opinion seems subjective and more to do with his political affiliations than any objective examination of the facts.

It may be more woke to crow about invasion, but it is more legally workable to stay with the status quo of settlement

On a more folk level, the Descendants and immigrants are players in this game. And I repeat, while we should acknowledge what happened in the past, none of us alive today at any bearing on that and we should focus on some sort of mutual magnanimity to enable us to go forward with positivity


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## chiff (27 January 2020)

No amount of of pedantics will change what happened.I can live with what happened because it did not effect me or my ancestors.One town I worked in in southern NSW had an island downstream in the Murrumbidgee called "massacre island"The British knew how to handle recalcitrant natives ,whether in Australia South Africa -wherever.Native title rights...John Howard was opposed to them and stirred up  the usual rednecks.I remember them saying to me...why should we have to pay them anything?I always replied-rent for stolen land.And they believed aboriginals could claim  your house....as I always replied  to this falsehoold...if they pay for it its all theirs.I know they would have liked to have been physical with me these rednecks.They seethed!
I see Andrew Forrest is taking   his defence against a native title claim to high court....he lost his case in two lower courts already.Hopefully justice prevails,and he pays heavily.
You can call a turd a tosca...but it will always be a turd.


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## wayneL (27 January 2020)

All class.


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## IFocus (28 January 2020)

rederob said:


> I would propose calling the day "*Heritage Day*" thereby allowing everyone to celebrate whatever it means to them as we are a majority nation of immigrants who have blended in that background with whatever "*Australianess*" we have accepted.




Yes agree makes sense


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## dutchie (19 January 2021)

*Australia Day - Tuesday 26th January 2021*

Australia - still the best country in the world.

Be thankful and celebrate.


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## wayneL (26 January 2022)

Unattributed:

Happy Australia Day 💔

Australians all let us conform
For we're no longer free
Our rights are gone, it's all so wrong
We're under lock and key.
Our land is now a prison cell
With jabs and masks galore
In history's page we've reached the stage
Where freedom is no more. 

In mournful strains then let us sing
Our freedom is no more 

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We hang our heads with shame
And curse this Commonwealth of ours
We're pawns within its game 
For those of us who don't conform
Or bow down to demand
We're ostracised and vilified
We're prisoners in this land.

For those who've come across the sea,
We've boundless plains to share,
But now our freedom's compromised
We can't go anywhere.
Our spirits all are broken now
But no-one seems to care
It's time to face the awful truth...
Goodbye Australia fair 

In mournful strains then let us sing
Goodbye Australia fair


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## frugal.rock (26 January 2022)

I went bush today with the two daughters.
Left home and arrived at the location all of 10 minutes later.

Swam with the tadpoles and baby Perch. 
Water chilly, the fatty in the photo background is me working up to a jump in the cold deep end...

Climbed a rock outcrop on the way back and coooeed into the valley. 
Decent echoes but no replies...

My youngest enjoying a "free" life.


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## SirRumpole (26 January 2022)

frugal.rock said:


> I went bush today with the two daughters.
> Left home and arrived at the location all of 10 minutes later.
> 
> Swam with the tadpoles and baby Perch.
> ...


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## frugal.rock (26 January 2022)

No offence intended @SirRumpole , however I find your child has quite a sinister smile... 😂😘


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## sptrawler (26 January 2022)

Jeez FR if that is you in the background, we could be twins.


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