# Recreational drugs - do you use them?



## mista200 (21 May 2006)

Just wondering what if any recreational drugs you use?? Seems to be a fair few hippies in here ....

Anyway i drink alot, smoke a pack a day and smoke roughly about 3 grams of weed a week. And i'll take other stuff if im offered i rarely buy any other drugs these days..


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## Jay-684 (21 May 2006)

*Re: recreational drugs- do you use them?*

questions on illegal topics never really generate that much interest

reason being.... people dont want to get busted!

I dont do drugs, but drink enthusiatically about 3 times a week.


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## Ageo (21 May 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> Just wondering what if any recreational drugs you use?? Seems to be a fair few hippies in here ....
> 
> Anyway i drink alot, smoke a pack a day and smoke roughly about 3 grams of weed a week. And i'll take other stuff if im offered i rarely buy any other drugs these days..





LMAO! post of the week


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

hey Mista good post...luv it...do you deal in weed as well???? Are u from SA where its legal to grow and smoke hemp??


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## bullmarket (21 May 2006)

Hi mista200



> posted by mista200
> 
> Just wondering what if any recreational drugs you use?? Seems to be a fair few hippies in here ....
> 
> Anyway i drink alot, smoke a pack a day and smoke roughly about 3 grams of weed a week. And i'll take other stuff if im offered i rarely buy any other drugs these days..




Sensational post....!!!!!...  easily the best (entertainment) post I've seen so far   

Now it's a lot clearer to me why you were so against voting in elections  : 

_So what planet are you calling home atm _ ?   

If it's not too late, try creating a poll for this thread.  I think the results would be very interesting.

_For the record, if you include the alcohol in a social glass of beer or wine then put me down for a *yes* otherwise put me down for a *no*._

once again, sensational post...!!

cheers

bullmarket


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## macca (21 May 2006)

Bottle of red, bottle of white,


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## professor_frink (21 May 2006)

I have to smoke once or twice a month for "medical" reasons   

when taking my medicine, I have to drink coke and watch hitchikers guide to the galaxy. Works a treat.


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## 123enen (21 May 2006)

If I was young again there is every chance I could have been a glue sniffer.
LOVE the smell of glue in the morning.... and metho... and paint.... and....


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## professor_frink (21 May 2006)

I'd wager money on the fact that more of the techies smoke weed than the fundies on this forum! Comparing the 2 different trades- charts filled with pretty coloured lines, compared with reading through company reports and economic projections etc. I think I know which the stoners would prefer to be doing


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## crackaton (21 May 2006)

I once made speed in a lab at UNI. lol Pretty rough stuff but it could be done. Think it was vicks nasal drops or something we used. We were running around hyper for a few days. Blitzed all my exams, got terribly drunk and forgot all had learnt over the past few years. Never again. Nowdays it's a drink or two, the woopee weed makes you forget stuff and the magic mushies make you see all sorts of weird stuff. lol if you really want to get in touch with the hippies check-out hotcopper, most of the posters there don't know what planet they are on let alone which planet they've been to. ROFLMAO


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## crackaton (21 May 2006)

123enen said:
			
		

> If I was young again there is every chance I could have been a glue sniffer.
> LOVE the smell of glue in the morning.... and metho... and paint.... and....



Yeah those model planes came with the best glue, especially the airfix ones or the cheap ones from japan. The little pots of enamel were good value too. lol


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## mista200 (21 May 2006)

Hmmm yeah i though most of you would be a bit narrow minded on this topic. But yeah im also a member of several drug forums.... 

forgot to mention its mushy season!!! so yeah ill be out picking soon!!!


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## crackaton (21 May 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> Hmmm yeah i though most of you would be a bit narrow minded on this topic. But yeah im also a member of several drug forums....
> 
> forgot to mention its mushy season!!! so yeah ill be out picking soon!!!





Yes those ones that a red with little white spots on top are the best. lol


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## mista200 (21 May 2006)

lol i know how to pick!!!!! dw ill be sweet! 
Oh yeah forgot to mention that i'll basically try anything someone throws at me


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

Mista

Do you find that you make more profit picking your stocks stoned or straight??


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## Julia (21 May 2006)

Would some of you "recreational" drug users (a euphemism if ever I heard one) care to comment on where the line might occur between using drugs for fun and developing an addiction?

i.e. would you even be able to distinguish when your substance of choice was becoming a problem?

Julia


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Would some of you "recreational" drug users (a euphemism if ever I heard one) care to comment on where the line might occur between using drugs for fun and developing an addiction?
> 
> i.e. would you even be able to distinguish when your substance of choice was becoming a problem?
> 
> Julia




When my brother got jailed for murder and was drug related that probally was a sign that his drug use had become a uncontrollable addiction


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## TheAnalyst (21 May 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Would some of you "recreational" drug users (a euphemism if ever I heard one) care to comment on where the line might occur between using drugs for fun and developing an addiction?
> 
> i.e. would you even be able to distinguish when your substance of choice was becoming a problem?
> 
> Julia




I found some really good pictures that give examples when drug use goes over the line in someones life and when it influences a political parties decisions as to who should and should not lead it.


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## wayneL (21 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> ....and when it influences a political parties decisions as to who should and should not lead it.




Obviously a subject close to home, TheAnalyst. Nice to it hasn't affected your sense of humour. LMAO


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## rederob (21 May 2006)

What games can you play with recreational drugs?
Wouldn't you need glasses to be able to see them to hit them back to the other player - aren't they quite small?
Maybe that's why only young people use these drugs for recreation.
Also, aren't they very expensive, so what do they do when the drugs break because you have a big hit, or you lose one?
Is that why there are dealers? To play another hand.
No wonder the police are concerned about these recreational users and dealers who can rip people off.
Why don't they just worry about the dealers then.
Or am I missing something?


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## TheAnalyst (22 May 2006)

These fellows here may know a little more rob.


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## tarnor (22 May 2006)

hmm alcohol and the 'erb usually just put me to sleep.. salvia d looks interesting..

For me the 'erb  is all about the naughtiness of it all.. if it was legal it would lose its fun naughty juvenile factor..  just don't let it take over your life :/

And remember kiddies you don't do drugs they do you!! :/


not that i would know of course


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## money tree (22 May 2006)

I used to work at a water treatment plant.

1. whenever there is a drug bust, what happens to the drugs? where do they end up?

2. what happens when seeds end up in a field covered in 2 tonnes of 'fertilizer' ?

needless to say, the workers at the treatment plant were very happy chappies.

The only thing harder than kicking a habit is kicking one when everyone around you is swimming in the stuff which is growing like wildfire at your place of work.


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## ghotib (22 May 2006)

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I have to smoke once or twice a month for "medical" reasons
> 
> when taking my medicine, I have to drink coke and watch hitchikers guide to the galaxy. Works a treat.



Who are you kidding Prof?  Simpsons plus Pan galactic Garble blaster - who'd  bother with mere earthly medicines??

Salud

Ghoti


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## professor_frink (22 May 2006)

"like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick"

always does the trick!


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## Prospector (22 May 2006)

123enen said:
			
		

> If I was young again there is every chance I could have been a glue sniffer.
> LOVE the smell of glue in the morning.... and metho... and paint.... and....




Textas - god how I love the smell of a new packet of textas


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## mista200 (22 May 2006)

Its not just young people that use drugs at all... I hang around one dude who still does 4 day benders on speed at age 53.. anyway i don't think anyone can comment on drugs unless they try them...

I have tried almost every "major" illicit drug excvept heroin..
Tried as many legal drugs as i can ..  eg. Benzos are fun
tried a lot of quasi legal drugs like mushies, dxm, codiene..

Its a great pity that many illegal drugs are illegal whilst alcohol isnt....


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## tarnor (22 May 2006)

hi... if market keeps going like this I'll need some of the more experienced posters to hook me up cheers


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## TheAnalyst (22 May 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> Its not just young people that use drugs at all... I hang around one dude who still does 4 day benders on speed at age 53.. anyway i don't think anyone can comment on drugs unless they try them...
> 
> I have tried almost every "major" illicit drug excvept heroin..
> Tried as many legal drugs as i can ..  eg. Benzos are fun
> ...





Mista 

Is marjuana expensive and how much does 3 grams cost a week? Is it cheaper than senetas shares...although that stock if you took it would be classed as a downer...so most likely you would be lookin for an upper type of a stock to take.


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## mista200 (22 May 2006)

marijuana where i live is $15 a gram or 3g for $40 ...it all depends on who you know though...

yeah if the market keeps going up the coke is on me!!!!! stockbrokers drug of choice


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## TheAnalyst (22 May 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> marijuana where i live is $15 a gram or 3g for $40 ...it all depends on who you know though...
> 
> yeah if the market keeps going up the coke is on me!!!!! stockbrokers drug of choice




Mista

Do you and your friends like all put in and get some or do you buy larger lots and just help out your mates a bit say the 3 for $40 and then say make 4 portions and sell em at $15 and make $5 and get your share for free for doing the driving around and phone calls and stuff like that....so u are like helping each other out....kinda like a stock broker and a little commission....and if you get a bigger lot say 10 grams how much would that cost??

cheers

Its good to know about this stuff as i have a son and like to know whats out there and make sure he dont get his hands on stuff until he at leasts leaves the nest.


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## mista200 (23 May 2006)

The analyst yes we do do that... although it isnt really sold in less than 1 grams lots.


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## mista200 (23 May 2006)

10 grams is worth about $100, 
ounce 200 - 250

but then again after about 7 grams the cops start caring. If a cop busts you with under about 3 or 4 grams they don't give a shyt.


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## TheAnalyst (23 May 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> 10 grams is worth about $100,
> ounce 200 - 250
> 
> but then again after about 7 grams the cops start caring. If a cop busts you with under about 3 or 4 grams they don;t give a shyt.




It must be good then to see that at least the cops dont take the law literally and enforce it and show some descretion as to what is just a usable amount and what isnt.....anyway if you get caught with to much can you just say tell the copper where you got the big lot from and he or she just lets you off?

Wow i didnt know that you could get ounces, do they also have kilos and tonnes if you are gonna have a big party and all your friends and their friends come over so there is plenty to go around...and if you get bigger amounts at wholesale prices you could probally make enough to cover catering at the party as well and a cleaning contractor.


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## The Mint Man (23 May 2006)

No I dont smoke the chronic, dont pop the pills, dont snort the snow.  In my next couple of posts Ill try to explain why..,. Happy reading

TheAnalyst, it is very unusual for someone to buy in the way you were suggesting for such a small profit, usually they will smoke it before they get the chance. However if your son is smart enough to realise that he can profit in this way and resist smoking it then yes it can be done.
on the other hand if he is smart enough to do this and knows the right people then he could easily buy an ounce, split that into about 28 grams and sell that off for a much better profit. To give you an idea I know a bloke that sells 1 ounce for $230 - 260 (this is the good ****) which could mean that your son could easily make anywhere from $190-330 profit (depending on buy/sell price) in no time at all... as long as he knows people who smoke.  

Time to Take the next step up, Level 2..... he finds a good lord that he can get pills off for a decent price. A decent price being $10-13 each based on a 100 buy ($1000-1300) locally made pills, not the good international ones which fetch more like $18ea. He can either sell them all to another person that either needs them ASAP or someone that isnt as in the know for around $1500-1600, thats a tidy $500 or so profit for 1 low risk, short term trade.
Otherwise he could do the ground work at the clubs himself selling them for around $20 which would be considerded a fairly good price, taking very high risk but potentially earning a $1000 profit. But if you were earning this type of money you would, of course lower your risk by taking out insurance with the bouncer at the door. It would be the best couple of hundred he could spend!  

time for Level 3....
Through his wheeling and dealing he has met some guys at the local bike club, they run the show, they have access to everything... hell they even cook the stuff! Your son can now get the local pills for $6-7ea based on a 1000 buy in ($7000). He then sells this to other smaller dealers for an average of $12ea based on a 100 buy (a 50 buy would cost you a bit more, mabey $15).
He sells in 100 lots at $1200 a pop multiply that by 10 and he would be making about $5000 profit for just 10 low risk trades. but he wouldnt be just buying in 1000 lots as he now has a clientele of around 40-50 because he has such good rates and the level 2's know it. on a long weekend business is crazy his clients all want a pack of 100. This would be a $25000 profit in about 3 days leading up to the long weekend!    ... but your son is smart, Knowing that the risk is becoming very high considering the amount he is keeping at any one time, he employs someone to hold majority of them for him (at about $400 per week) just incase the cops bust his house but he still keeps a small amount on hand (mabey 500-1000 pills) for spontaneous buying sesions, you know how it can be.
hes earning the big bucks now and decides that he needs to spend some of this cash, i mean its starting to take over the inbuilt cupboard, thats where cloths are sposed to go man. So he rents out a bigger house, cant buy remember... he's on the doll! he also decides to buy all new stuff like TV's, air con, nice bed, lounge ect ect ect. the list goes on..... but everyone likes a bargin dont they? so he contacts his mate that can get stuff that falls off the back of trucks if you get my drift and fits out his house with the latest gadgets. He still has lots of cash and time on his hands so he decides he needs a hobby.... how about Cars, before you know it he has one car to cruze (thats how they spell it) in, one car for work, one car that is all show and go for street driving/drags and one car that is dedicated to show... the best part of 300K on cars. People are starting to take notice, his neighbours, the people in the car scene especially those that he is ****y to when he beats them not to mention the thousands of people that seen his car on the fromt cover of last months fast fours mag. People are getting pissed off by his attitude, its almost like he wants to get done in! so thats exactly what people do.
Meanwhile he thinks hes covered all grounds, hes flying high. 
aint no one gonna break his stride 
aint no one gonna hold him down... oh no 
hes gotta keep on moving 
(sorry felt like breaking out into song)  :band back on track
So hes feeling good but he can see that theres crack starting to appear in his story. He gets word of another guy in his trade that is selling his body shop business, which is really a front for the drug business. He has been thinking of doing this for a while so he buys the business all set up with the people in place to make things happen, the tradesmen, the receptionist and the book keeper. The book keeper is the only one that knows the real going ons of course. She does the same for many drug lords in the area. so now all his money is slowly but surely becoming legal, he has to pay GST but this is just a cost of business, plus the economy loves set ups like this.
Things are smooth now and its time to increase earnings so he decides to get more into pure which will be a big earner on top of his already huge pill business. hes thinking of buying a really nice house, hes sick of renting and spending his profits, he dosnt need to rent anymore remember? his money is legal.
One morning he gets up to go to work, everything is normal, gets in his car and drives down the street when bang... the cops pull him over cuffing him and throwing him into the wagon. At the very same time his house is being raided as well as some of his mates houses.
Turnes out that the cops had been following him for about 6 months even before he bought the business, they have pages of popular numbers he dialed and records of conversations and text messages. Not so smart after all. 
They find 3000 pills at his house as well as a large amount of pure, they also find alot of stolen property in his house... remember that bargain he got off his mate for all those appliances and furniture?


So thats what could happen with your son but he could also go the complete opposite way which will be my next installment so stay tuned.

_The above is based on real events!_

thats my


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## The Mint Man (23 May 2006)

My point is that it dosnt matter if your a dealer or a user, there usually comes a time when it affects your life and the people around you in some way. Im only 23 and it astounds me when I see people (sometimes twice my age) that obviously havnt been affected.... yet! or at least they think they havnt been. Ignorant fools, I just think to myself 'your times coming'.

Im Darren Hunch
thats my


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## TheAnalyst (23 May 2006)

This i sgreat mintman...cant wait for the next chapter


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## The Mint Man (23 May 2006)

why thank you.


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## Kipp (23 May 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> Hmmm yeah i though most of you would be a bit narrow minded on this topic. But yeah im also a member of several drug forums....
> 
> forgot to mention its mushy season!!! so yeah ill be out picking soon!!!



Heh heh... very difficult to get your hands on hallucinogenics, not expensive but just not common in Aus.  Mushie picking very difficult also, you have to get up bloody early and really knwo what your looking for.

Had a dabble in most of them, I think I prefer the hallucinogenics to chemicals (but eccie is very good) smoke week maybe once a month.  But the way the markets going at the moment (I STILL hold ZFX  :swear ... it might become more regularly

If there's anyone out there taking a moral highground on drugs, just remember that cigarettes kill 25x more people each year than all of the illicit drugs combined, (pot = 0 deaths ever!!!) now there's some food for thought...

If you are curious, I recommend Erowid http://www.erowid.org/ lots of good info and first hand experiences in there


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## serp (23 May 2006)

So.... Is it more profitable to trade stocks when high?


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## The Mint Man (23 May 2006)

no... it is more profitable to trade drugs full stop!
the same basics apply More risk = more return


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## chemist (23 May 2006)

Top post!



			
				The Mint Man said:
			
		

> No I dont smoke the chronic, dont pop the pills, dont snort the snow.  In my next couple of posts Ill try to explain why..,. Happy reading
> 
> TheAnalyst, it is very unusual for someone to buy in the way you were suggesting for such a small profit, usually they will smoke it before they get the chance. However if your son is smart enough to realise that he can profit in this way and resist smoking it then yes it can be done.
> on the other hand if he is smart enough to do this and knows the right people then he could easily buy an ounce, split that into about 28 grams and sell that off for a much better profit. To give you an idea I know a bloke that sells 1 ounce for $230 - 260 (this is the good ****) which could mean that your son could easily make anywhere from $190-330 profit (depending on buy/sell price) in no time at all... as long as he knows people who smoke.
> ...


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## Smurf1976 (23 May 2006)

Kipp said:
			
		

> If there's anyone out there taking a moral highground on drugs, just remember that cigarettes kill 25x more people each year than all of the illicit drugs combined, (pot = 0 deaths ever!!!) now there's some food for thought...



To be balanced it's worth considering that there are a lot of people smoking cigarettes and they collectively smoke a lot of them. 

I don't have the figures but a couple of years ago missus Smurf got some stats and the bottom line is that they don't add up. Looking at the number of people in surveys etc who claim to smoke and the number of cigarettes they claim to smoke. The bottom line is that either more people smoke than admit to doing so or they smoke more than they admit, or both. 

In the case of pot, it contains far higher concentrations of many of the (death causing) nasties in tobacco smoke. Also pot smokers tend to inhale pretty deeply which recent research indicates is far more damaging than the way in which most people smoke a cigarette.

So I disagree with the notion that pot hasn't caused any deaths. Most likely it is a contributing factor to some of the lung and other problems attributed to cigarette smoking.

I recall some recent research reported in the newspaper saying that lung damage normally associated with decades of daily cigarette smoking is becoming somewhat common in pot smokers aged in their late 20's.

I'm not keen on cigarette smoking, I quit over a decade ago, but I would _much_ rather see an 18 year old with a cigarette in their hand than taking any form of illicit drugs or excessive drinking. 

At least with cigarettes there is the opportunity (though some are admittedly unlucky) to reconsider and quit before any serious harm is done. Sure, smoking for 15 years might take a few years off your life but statistically someone who quits at age 30 will still live to a good age. In contrast, illicit drugs or excessive drinking can completely wreck your life well before 30. Drink driving, and alcohol is a drug, can do it in less than an hour. And I've never heard of anyone bashing their wife, waking up in bed with a stranger, vandalising property, stabbing people etc because they were under the influence of tobacco.

It's not my intention to take some moral high ground on drugs here. As long as it isn't affecting me then what you do with your body is your personal decision. 

But if you're going to be driving under the influence of pills, pot, alcohol etc then it certainly IS my business if you're on a public road that I also want to travel on. Likewise if you're wandering the streets smashing property, causing fights etc. IMO workplace and road deaths are a hidden toll of many drugs which are often wrongly attributed to unsafe working conditions, bad roads etc. A poor road is one problem but being stoned whilst driving on it makes it far more likely that you'll end up killing someone.


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## justjohn (23 May 2006)

Jesus MINT MAN where did all that come from ,are you & your brother on the JD again :alcohol:


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## makeorbreak (23 May 2006)

I am so not impressed in the quality of the rich mans drug nowadays.
I remember getting the stuff cheap(er) - $200 a g compared to the $300+ and it was good quality. These days its just sour sugar


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## noirua (24 May 2006)

Come on now, the only reason for taking drugs, on a recreational basis, is that you do not have a proper life. 
A person who refers to their car as " my little run-about "  seems to think that they can have bald tyres, and an otherwise wreck of a car that is a danger to everyone. " It's only my little run-about to get me here and there and close by " 
The same use of the word " recreational drug " is a run-about word that seems to say " I'm not a drug addict, it's only for recreational purposes ". Come on now, buying these drugs finances the underworld of drug dealers, who are one thing " evil people ". If you buy drugs you support these evil people and some would say you are as bad as them.


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## TheAnalyst (24 May 2006)

I had the experience whilst doing one part of my family tree and met 2nd and 3rd cousins who showed me the original diaries of my great great grandfather Walter McKimmie and he use to smoke opium every night in the late 1800's to early 1900's right here in Melbourne and then discuss his hallucenations in his diaries.....he actually owned a huge amount of land in the area that is now called heidelberg/bundoora......so heroin is really not a new epidemic to our society and he and his family seemed to have functioned quite well.


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## professor_frink (24 May 2006)

noirua said:
			
		

> Come on now, the only reason for taking drugs, on a recreational basis, is that you do not have a proper life.



geez noirua that's a bit harsh


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## visual (24 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> I had the experience whilst doing one part of my family tree and met 2nd and 3rd cousins who showed me the original diaries of my great great grandfather Walter McKimmie and he use to smoke opium every night in the late 1800's to early 1900's right here in Melbourne and then discuss his hallucenations in his diaries.....he actually owned a huge amount of land in the area that is now called heidelberg/bundoora......so heroin is really not a new epidemic to our society and he and his family seemed to have functioned quite well.




Analyst,maybe you should share that bit of information with the chinese.


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## websman (24 May 2006)

I've been reading this thread and I must state my personal opinion.

Drugs are for LOSERS!   

Why would anyone want to destroy their brain cells like that?


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## TheAnalyst (24 May 2006)

websman said:
			
		

> I've been reading this thread and I must state my personal opinion.
> 
> Drugs are for LOSERS!
> 
> Why would anyone want to destroy their brain cells like that?




I dont think that is a fair remark websman or that you can easily just make a generalisation........its like the picture of Aboriginals in a dirty kitchen....but to label all Australians of aboriginal descent as dirty is a generalisation and is wrong as i know many nice clean aboriginals.....and great people and they do make jokes of how easy life is with their handouts and perks.....its a way of paying rent...anyway leave that for another thread.........their are may who use drugs but donot commit crime and definetly are not losers actually they are winners......


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## visual (24 May 2006)

Analyst,the real question though is for how long.
I agree websman drugs are for losers,yes even dressed in designer clothes,and famous and successful and whatever.Drugs are designed to make you into a victim so they the sellers or the lynch man never have to do an honest day of work.


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## phoenixrising (24 May 2006)

What does Wendall Sailor do now, what does he tell his kids later.
It didn't really matter, it was only a recreational drug (strongly rumoured to be coke)  

Footy career destroyed. I bet a lot of white collar workers doing the same tho.


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## TheAnalyst (24 May 2006)

prozac is ok


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## wayneL (24 May 2006)

noirua said:
			
		

> Come on now, the only reason for taking drugs, on a recreational basis, is that you do not have a proper life.




If we consider alcohol a drug (which it is) then almost nobody has a proper life. As a matter of fact alcohol is VERY destructive. I personally know many people (as I'm sure we all do) who's lives are adversely affected by this drug.

Cheers


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## money tree (24 May 2006)

I was a passenger in a car with a driver who had smoked grass an hour earlier.

she didnt see the need to stop at an intersection (although we yelled 3 secs before) and we collided into another car @ 80km......nobody died, but the other driver had 2 broken legs.....I had bruises for weeks and still suffer neck pain from the whiplash (15 yrs now)

just because people dont get tested for drugs after an accident doesnt mean they dont cause them


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## tarnor (24 May 2006)

When i was playing league in my late teens all the older guys, coaches, local supporters etc would always give us lectures about staying away from weed.  If the coach found out that one of the guys had been doing it they'd lose thier run on spot for that week..  Meanwhile most of these 'old boys' lived at the footy club and were always drunk, i'm sure alot would have been categorised as alcoholics..  Maybe i got lectured more because of my long raggy hair  raggamuffin look but the hypocrisy was unbearable... lost count of the amount of time some drunk old boy slurred me a speel about how bad the herb was while he sprayed me with spit  ..  You can talk about the herb being for losers etc but I find alcohol way worse for self control in the way of drink driving etc.. Anything done irresponsibilities or excessively is dangerous.(sport, eating, work etc - everyone looks for escapes)  I rarely drink but will have a spliff with friends every once in a while.. I think the concern with legalising it would be the fact that the gear varies so much its a little harder to encourage people to be responsible..



edit : Nice work slipping that in money tree,   - It probably depends on the person but i can be absolutely smashed on weed and still be responsible but I have absolutely no self control if im heavily on the p!ss


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## wayneL (24 May 2006)

money tree said:
			
		

> I was a passenger in a car with a driver who had smoked grass an hour earlier.
> 
> she didnt see the need to stop at an intersection (although we yelled 3 secs before) and we collided into another car @ 80km......nobody died, but the other driver had 2 broken legs.....I had bruises for weeks and still suffer neck pain from the whiplash (15 yrs now)
> 
> just because people dont get tested for drugs after an accident doesnt mean they dont cause them




By shere coincidence (going down the line that alchohol is a drug) this just turned up in my inbox:

I went to a party,
And remembered what you said.
You told me not to drink, Mom,
so I had a sprite instead.

I felt proud of myself,
The way you said I would,
that I didn't drink and drive,
though some friends said I should.

I made a healthy choice,
And your advice to me was right.
The party finally ended,
and the kids drove out of sight.

I got into my car,
Sure to get home in one piece.
I never knew what was coming, Mom,
something I expected least.

Now I'm lying on the pavement,
And I hear the policeman say,
the kid that caused this wreck was drunk,
Mom, his voice seems far away.

My own blood's all around me,
As I try hard not to cry.
I can hear the
paramedic say,
this girl is going to die.

I'm sure the guy had no idea,
While he was flying high.
Because he chose to drink and drive,
now I would have to die.

So why do people do it, Mom
Knowing that it ruins lives?
And now the pain is cutting me,
like a hundred stabbing knives.

Tell sister not to be afraid, Mom
Tell daddy to be brave.
And when I go to heaven,
put " Mommy's Girl" on my grave.

Someone should have taught him,
That it's wrong to drink and drive.
Maybe if his parents had,
I'd still be alive.

My breath is getting shorter,
Mom I'm getting really scared
These are! my final moments,
and I'm so unprepared.

I wish that you could hold me Mom,
As I lie here and die.
I wish that I could say, "I love you, Mom!"
So I love you and good-bye.

MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) IS HOPING TO GET 5,000 SIGNATURES
ON THIS, THEN PASS IT ON TO SIGN.


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## visual (24 May 2006)

Wayne, that poem made me cry,

And yes alcohol,is a drug,but if done responsably(recreational)it doesnt leave you with a mental problem.Drugs that are grown and packed in the shadow of some moron,can and will affect your brain function,now and in the future.


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## crackaton (24 May 2006)

TheAnalyst said:
			
		

> I found some really good pictures that give examples when drug use goes over the line in someones life and when it influences a political parties decisions as to who should and should not lead it.



Nothing a good dentist or beautician couldn't fix. lol


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## crackaton (24 May 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> If we consider alcohol a drug (which it is) then almost nobody has a proper life. As a matter of fact alcohol is VERY destructive. I personally know many people (as I'm sure we all do) who's lives are adversely affected by this drug.
> 
> Cheers




Yeah I agree wayno. i generally try to restrict my intact to a bottl of whiskey or vodka or both a night. Any more than that and I really can't function the next day


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## Julia (24 May 2006)

crackaton said:
			
		

> Yeah I agree wayno. i generally try to restrict my intact to a bottl of whiskey or vodka or both a night. Any more than that and I really can't function the next day




Crackaton

I hope you are having us on with the above. Perhaps not, given the misspellings?

I'm undecided whether some of you who have contributed to this thread are doing so in an attempt at bravado, or perhaps you are simply young and silly and going through some inevitable "rite of passage" on the way to being a grown up person.  Whatever, it is highly unlikely that you will take the smallest bit of notice of any of us who have travelled that road and survived it (what good luck) and are therefore in some sort of position to ask you to just question why you feel the need to cloud your brains with psychoactive substances of whatever origin.

Earlier in this thread, I asked if any of you avid drug users would have any idea when your "recreational" (read "illegal") drug use was becoming a problem.
I think The Analyst suggested it may have been a problem when some relative was charged with murder.  (Analyst, if I have this wrong, then I apologise - I haven't referred back to your specific post).  Anyway, yes, I think we'd all agree that being involved in murder just could provide a tiny clue that all was not well!

May I relate the story of someone very close to me.

He was a highly intelligent young doctor, recently graduated top of his year at medical school.  Passionate about helping people and determined to make a difference in the lives of those he treated.

First year as a house surgeon - OK, long hours, very tiring, but manageable because there was always the Registrar (more senior doctor) to call on when the important decisions had to be made.  Second year - similar.

Then the first year as a Registrar.  At night/weekends no one senior to call on.  Junior doctors looking for guidance and decision making.  Commonly working 20 hours at a stretch.  A few hours sleep and then another 20 hours.
The young doctor is exhausted.  He is fearful that his tiredness will lead him to make a mistaken diagnosis.  He thinks to himself, just this once I will take some amphetamine to keep me going.  He does this.  What a difference.  He is alert and feels capable of managing anything.  Sleep just doesn't matter.
The next night he thinks, well one more won't matter and I will be able to cope.  And so it goes on.  There is no relief from the long hours and the responsibility.  So it 's just so easy to take the magic pill which makes him feel he can do nothing wrong.

Eventually the young doctor has done his obligatory hospital service and decides to enter general practice.  This, he thinks, will be a piece of cake after the long hospital hours.  For a while, it indeed is.  He feels happy and his life is smooth.  He marries and has two children.  After a while the marriage isn't working and he begins to experience extreme stress and severe headaches.  He takes some relatively mid-strength painkillers for the headache and prescribes for himself some valium to ease the stress.  This combination has little effect.  He feels his decision making capacity is suffering because of his personal impairment. He has observed the  almost magical relief experienced by his patients in extreme pain and stress as a result of using opiates (e.g. morphine and its derivatives) and thinks to himself, perhaps I should just try one tablet and see if that helps.

He takes the tablet.  Within a short time, the headache has gone and he feels a sense of relaxation which allows him to forget the marital stress and all the other worries.  So easy to take another pill, and another , and another.
Within a very short period of time, our young doctor is a full blown junkie, illegally prescribing drugs for patients who have never received them.
He begins to panic about his problem.  He cannot seek help from any of his colleagues because exposure may well mean prosecution.  His panic and fear exacerbate his drug taking.  The intake of the opiates is now up to 40 times the usual dose for relief of severe pain, such is the rapid development of tolerance of opiates.  He tries desperately to stop.  Takes a week off and goes away to experience withdrawal where no one knows him.  He cannot tolerate the nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, panic, violent headaches and above all the fear that he simply cannot live without the drug.  He quickly gets back to work in order to prescribe more drugs for himself.  He repeats this attempt and fails many, many more times.

Eventually, the health department no longer will accept his explanations as to why he is prescribing these vast amounts of opiates.  They question his patients who say they have never received the prescriptions.

The Health Department and the Medical Council tell him he can no longer prescribe opiates.  He refuses treatment. His colleagues don't want to know anything about it.  He turns to amphetamines, alcohol and barbiturates, plus the ever faithful valium et al.  This cocktail produces a drug induced psychosis.  Amongst this psychotic state he turns to street junkies for a fix of heroin.  Gets sucked into this whole scene.

Ultimately he is charged with attempt to kill, trading and trafficking in drugs and numerous other offences.  He goes to jail. He is deregistered.  He loses his children, his second wife and all his friends.

A few years later he died as a result of all the damage he has done to his body and mind.

Julia


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## krisbarry (25 May 2006)

That is a very sad story Julia...

I once had a few puffs on a joint, and ended up triggering off anxiety attacks and depression and now on medication.

Drugs...who needs them....filthy things, they cause so much destruction!


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## TheAnalyst (25 May 2006)

Yes...Julia you are right....my brothers drug use lead to murder....lucky he didnt get the German Shephard because the council dog pound has had to come and collect the most vicious blue healers as non of us would takem...and the shephard would have been looking for a new home again....


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## professor_frink (25 May 2006)

Julia, that's a terrible story, it's always sad when someone's life goes down that path.

 I'll attempt to explain my definition of "recreational" use for you. I've been smoking pot on and off for about 10 years, which at the age of 25 sounds pretty bad, but there have been long periods of time where I haven't taken drugs at all. I first started smoking at about 15, but considering I lived in a smallish town with not much to do this was hardly an uncommon occurance. In my local area, weekends equalled parties, drugs and alcohol. A night would start off at a friends house, out would come the drugs, we'd smoke ourselves silly, load up an esky full of beer and go down to one of the parks near the lake, where there would often be 100+ other people, and the night normally wouldn't end until the cops showed up. I would describe this as anything but recreational use, but when I was a teenager it didn't really seem to matter to me at all. By the time I got to year 11 in school I had basically stopped smoking it, mainly because I didn't enjoy it anymore. It just put me to sleep.

When I started year 12 in high school, I made the conscious effort to clean my act up at school(i was a bit of a f*** up) and start taking things seriously. I wanted to get a good enough mark to have as many choices for uni as I possibly could, which meant cutting back on the drinking alot(18th birthday parties excluded!), and completely cutting out the pot, which I had basically already had done.

For me, that's the difference between a "recreational" drug taker and a proper drug user. I wasn't really enjoying it anymore and there were other things I wanted to concentrate on, so I just stopped doing it for awhile. If it had of been a problem to stop, or if I had os found myself off smoking when I should have been studying,then I would have had a drug problem.

I didn't smoke again until I was 22, and currently I do smoke a litle bit, but it's not something I would describe as a problem for me, the legal system, or the general public. I sometimes go months without having a smoke, and when I do, it's an alternative to having a big drinking session(which I must admit I do slightly more often than I should). Instead of getting drunk and feeling horrible the next day, I can have a smoke, chill out on the couch with a friend, watch a movie, eat some dorritos, and have a good time. No problems sleeping, no hangover, I can still function as a human being the next day. And that's the appeal of it for me.

So does this mean I'm no chance of ending up like the person you know and having it all spiral out of control and destroy my life? I'd be lying if I said no, there's no chance. It could happen to me or anyone else who dabbles in this sort of thing. I'm confident that it won't, and I'm also confident that I have enough people around me that would give me a severe kick up the a*** if they ever thought I had a problem. Personally I don't consider myself that much different to the thousands of others who have a few too many drinks on the weekend.

At the end of the day they are all drugs, and can ruin your life if they are taken too often. Throughout history, humans have been taking narcotics, there is evidence of civilisations growing plants such as cannabis 10 000 years ago.


Humans have always wanted to find an escape from reality, be it through drugs, alcohol, gambling or even religion. To me they are all different ways in which we try to cope with whatever life is throwing at us. A drink after work to help you relax, a bong on the weekend and a couple of funny movies, or a trip to church to be told that everything will be alright, god will look after you and you'll get into heaven. If it makes you feel better, you do it in moderation, and you don't hurt anyone else in the process, then I don't have a problem with it.


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## Julia (25 May 2006)

Professor Frink

You say you don't have a problem.  Perhaps you don't.  The doctor didn't think he did either until it was too late.  The thing about addiction is that it is so insidious.  

Julia


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## bunyip (25 May 2006)

Like Julia, I suspect that I'm wasting my time in posting to this thread......I doubt if anyone already on drugs will take the slightest bit of notice of what I have to say. But I'll say it anyway, in the hope that maybe I can do some good for someobody, or that maybe some of you might want to print out my post and pass it on to some young person you know.

Using illicit substances for some kind of cheap thrill would have to be just about  the dumbest, most immature, deadbeat activity anyone could possibly partake in.
It's quite pathetic that someone would come on a public forum to boast about being a heavy drinker, a heavy smoker, and a regular user of dope and just about any other illegal drug he can get his hands on. Pity he doesn't have something worthwhile to boast about.


In this day and age we can avail ourselves of a huge range of wholesome and legal recreational activites that can provide unlimited challenges and thrills and great personal satisfaction.
And yet we have in society an increasing number of deadbeats who reject these activities in favour of substance abuse. 
How pathetic can a person get? 
When are you druggies going to get your act together? When are you going to wake up to yourselves, open your eyes and stop being so bloody blind and downright stupid! When are you going to start conducting your lives with a bit of self respect?
You are potentially heading for disaster, but you don't have the commonsense to realise it. Apart from that, you're supporting criminals who make millions of dollars by trafficking drugs that kill thousands of people every year. In fact, you're actually engaging in criminal activity yourselves.

Heavy smokers are setting themselves up for horrific diseases like lung cancer, among others.

Heavy drinkers are destroying their liver and their brain cells slowly but surely, and setting themselves up for serious health problems sooner or later.

People who smoke dope and use other illicit drugs are destroying their brain cells bit by bit, and may be setting themselves up for the kind of dependency that causes idiots with knives to hold up service stations and corner shops so they can get a few hundred dollars to support their drug habits. Worse still, they're exposing themselves to the possibility of developing psychotic illness that could land them a stint in a mental hospital, or perhaps even permanent residency in a psychiatric institution.

Don't believe me? Perhaps you would if you spoke to two friends of mine who are employed as psychiatric nurses in the Acute Psychiatric Unit of a hospital.
They relate horrific stories about their young patients who, as a result of years of drug abuse, have become psychotic, delusional, criminal, suicidal, violent, completely dysfunctional and incapable of handling normal day to day activities. Many of these patients are committed to hospital again and again as their lives spiral out of control.
Psychiatric assessment of these people finds no evidence of psychiatric illness in their lives....until they started using drugs, and no family history of mental illness.
Some of these people end up being permanently committed to mental institutions.
Apart from the physical and mental damage you're doing yourselves, you're also potentially damaging and adversley affecting your personal relationships, your families, and your success in your personal lives. 
In summary you are being VERY stupid, and it's high time you woke up to yourselves and started putting some thought and effort into your lives. Stop behaving like weaklings by blindly following the crowd, and allowing other people to do your thinking for you. Start showing a bit of character by thinking for yourself for a change, and making intelligent choices about your lives and your personal behaviour. Do it now, before you reach the point of no return.
I realise that not every drug user becomes hopelessly addicted and completely destroys his or her life. But to expose yourself to the potential of drug addiction, with its accompanying potential for absolutely horrific consequences, is just downright bloody stupid and immature. To put it bluntly, it's time you grew up.

My wife and I drummed many lessons into our four kids (now aged 15 to 20) while they were growing up. Among those lesson were the importance of thinking for themselves, not following the crowd, making their own decisions, mixing with decent people, pursuing wholesome recreational activities, staying away from deadbeat activities like drug taking, setting themselves challenges both in recreation and in careers.
I'm pleased to say that my kids have not gone down the drug road, but have instead got their thrills and recreational pleasures from such activities such as water skiing, absailing, snow skiing, sky diving, ocean kayaking, white water rafting, mountain climbing, camping and hiking with friends and family in national parks, playing sport, just to name a few.
They're vibrant, lively kids who are always looking for the next challenge, and they don't need drugs to help them find it. Their attitude is quite correctly that illicit drugs are for losers.

My reason for relating these insights into my family has nothing to do with blowing my own trumpet about my parenting skills, or boasting about my kids. Rather, I'm simply trying to show you druggies that life offers a smorgasboard of drug-free opportunities for thrills, challenges, achievment, recreational pleasures and personal satisfaction. It's all about making the right choices.

Finally, a couple of true drug-related stories involving people I know personally.

The first story is about a couple who are friends of mine. Unable to conceive a child of their own, they opted for adoption. Their first adopted child was a 12 month old baby boy who had already been hospitalised three times with broken bones as a result of violence from his junkie parents. I'm quite sure that when those parents started using drugs, they didn't think they'd become addicted and end up as violent criminals who would seriously injure their own children.

The second story is of a young bloke who foolishy chose the drug scene, ended up in hospital in the psychiatric unit several times, stole a truck and crashed it into a car and then into a power pole, was in coma for three months and now has permanent brain damage. On the night of the crash, his blood test showed high levels of illegal drugs and alcohol.

If you've made the mistake of getting involved in the drug scene, I suggest you have a long hard think about what I've said. Do something about it before it's too late.

Bunyip


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## professor_frink (25 May 2006)

very true julia. The problem with defining whether I, or any other person has drug problem depends on what we define a problem habit as. According to bunyip, I'm no better than a street walking junkie that abuses their children, according to someone like mista200 who started this thread, I'd barely even qualify as a recreational user.

Bunyip, if you want to get through to someone, the above post is probably not the way to do it. Calling people 'druggies', 'pathetic', saying that they live without any self respect is not going to get the right kind of response. You do make some good points in your post, but most won't listen to you when you talk to them like that.


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## TheAnalyst (25 May 2006)

Drugs even made my murdering brother burn down his neighbors hedge cos he did not like it growing on his side of the fence.....my mum just got back from my brothers house today because those who were renting it could no longer cope and stay there as people were coming by all hours and yelling out killer and spinning up the nature strip with their cars and if they were not doing that they were knocking on the door asking if they could buy some drugs.....she rushed up and rushed back because she was so scared from cleaning the place.....all because of drugs......his habit started when he was 14 yrs he started hanging around with a bikies club president and it went from there.....she is now advertising the place in another suburb so no one knows who use to live there.....


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## The Mint Man (25 May 2006)

Time for the complete opposite way (part two)
Lets just say that the Analyst has two sons for this story they are both around 15/16 years old we will call them A1 and A2.

His two sons are very active and have alot going for them in this life, they are both great surfers and skateboaders and dream of becoming pro one day.
When they reach the age of 17 they are still very much into surfing and have improved even more on their skills, they are starting to be noticed by their peers and some of the more popular kids are becoming friends with them. However these popular kids think that it is really cool to smoke drugs, drink etc on a daily basis. These new kids offer A1 & A2 a smoke on several occasions and so far they have been able to avoid it but not for long, the fear of being rejected by these 'cool' kids is too much so the next time they hang out they decide to have a smoke. Whats one that cant do any harm can it?

by the age of 18 they are still very good surfers however they seem to have picked up an addiction to pot and are starting to get into pills and coke if they can afford it, they both have jobs so this usually isnt a problem. They love to party and hang out with all their mates that they have made over the years, everyone is taking some sort of drug so their habbit just seems normal. everyone has a smoke as soon as they get up in the morning right?
At 19 years old things take a turn for the worst for A1 & A2, their mother and father are fighting constantly and the 'D' word has been thrown about a few times and before you know it Analyst and his misus have broke up. A1 & A2 dont know of any other way to handle things other then get smashed and this soon affects their life. 

At 20 A1, the eldest of the two, ends up loosing his job and subsequently is forced to go on the doll, he starts geting into the heroin hoping this will ease the pain for a while until things get better. A2 on the other hand has tried to get away and moved out but is still on the drugs and just hanging onto his job. A2 feels sorry for his brother and offers a place to stay while he gets himself sorted out with a job, however this proves a big mistake. A2 olny falls deeper into the drug scene as it is now amplified by his brothers severe addiction, their days are spent lying around of their faces and eventually A2 loses his job too. 

By 22/23 they are still both on the doll but their expences outweigh the income due to drugs so A1 decides to break into a mates car and steals his surfboard and wetsuit in order to hock it for some cash to support his addiction. The very next day he buys more drugs with the cash, he dosnt give any to his brother as it is in short supply and A2 is very pissed off at this and decides to go out for the night. That very night there is a knock at the door, A1 stumbles to answer it. Guess who it is? His mate that he stole the surf gear from. A1's mate storms in and ask for it back, A1 tells him that he sold it so his mate gives it to him, leaving him with a few teath missing as well as telling him to never consider him (or any of his other mates) friends again. Ofcourse the only cure for this was for A1 to take more drugs. A1 is alone now, his brother isn't there to confide in, his parents are still at each others neck after all these years and well, he definitly has no mates now and he hates himself and his life. A1 decides to go for a walk and ends up at a train station where he jumps in fromt of a train and dies.

After the Funeral Mr & missus analyst decide to put their differences asside and focus on the huge problem that they have obviously not noticed was so bad and becoming worse over the years, however its too late, A2 slips deep into depression and is still taking drugs.
By 25 A2 is living on the street having sold all possesions, he still spends what money he does receive on drugs and things are looking worse everyday. he thinks to himself 'this is a long way from the dreams that we had as kids of being a pro surfer brother' and at that moment decides to ask his dad for help.

Analyst puts him up in his house right away, he gets A2 to do normal things like getting the mail, going to the shops to get bread and milk and talking to people. A2 finds this very hard, not only does he fight the voice in his head telling him to take drugs he also finds that he is remembering things about his brother. This only causes him to want to take drugs even more, as the drugs used to block this out but he manages to fight his thoughts and not take drugs, for the moment.

One night A2's mum (mrs analyst) comes around to have dinner, they decide to have take away and A2 offers to get it, Mrs analyst gives A2 her keys as a sign of renewed trust. While A2 is gone Mr & Mrs analyst talk about A2's progress, all seems well but they know things are still a little rocky in regards to A2's depression about his brother A1.
A little while later analyst and his ex are wondering where A2 has got to as he has been gone for longer then expected. All of a sudden there is a knock at the door, its the cops, the cop says 'is your son A2', 'yes' replied mrs analyst 'whats wrong, has he been hurt'... there is a pause, then the cop answers ' were really sorry mrs analyst but your son has gassed himself in your car, paramedics tride to revive him but he died at the scene'.

In about 10 short years A1 and A2 went from future pro surfers that had everything going for them to dead!
when you sell out of life theres no buying back in.


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## The Mint Man (25 May 2006)

So who is affected in a situation such as my last post, well a better question would be who isn't?
The family would obviously be affected, A1 & A2's mates, the cops, the paramedics, the train driver, the passengers, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls that had nothing to do with it, people they lied to and stole from. just to name a few

Once again my last post was based on real events of people I know.

As this is based on a true story I would also like to add that this also affected one person for the better. that person being me.
A2's real life counterpart used to skate at the local ramp with me when he was living with his dad trying to get back on track. I was at an age when I was either thinking of trying some sort of drug or even recently tried pot.

One day we skated home together and he asked me if I take drugs, my reply was no, he said 'wayne, dont ever ever take drugs, it has wrecked my life' he went on to tell me how he had lost everything, he had sold everything that ment something to him and even gave away his bright future. Two weeks after that conversation he gassed himself in his mums car.
Anyway to cut a long story short, I have steered clear of drugs since that day (probably about 8-9 years ago now) and I lost alot of mates due to this. but hey Im straight theyre not!


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## twojacks28 (25 May 2006)

good story mint. i think i can feel the respect coming back. hahaha


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## The Mint Man (25 May 2006)

thanks mate,
if only it were fiction.

anyway I aggree with some of the more extream views that people have put forward on here as drugs do wreck lives at some stage whether it be a user,dealer or traficer, whether you lose mates, family or even die. 
That other story I told about the dealer, well they are in jail as we speak and left family behind with just a car.... it was the only thing that they could prove was bought with money that was actually worked for.

If your a parent and you are scared of what your kids might get up to then take it from me, you should be. the stuff is so easy to get. 
Dont ever think that they dont have access to the hard stuff because they do. If they can get pot then they can get anything if they ask for it. As long as they have the money. 
This last point is the reason why I belive that kids at private schools are at more risk, they usually have more MONEY to spend! full stop. This was definitly the case in my area. school kids doing pills or even coke  as opposed to pot or drink. 

heres a tip:
My dad used to say to me that if I ever got into drugs he would take me out back way away from drugs and tie me to a tree until I was straight if he had to... and he was serious.

Mint Man


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## tarnor (25 May 2006)

I love the stereotypes you guys churn out. I know of one guy who smoked pot since his teens now in his 50ths...  He recently resigned as the head master of a special school a position he held for many years where he used the herb daily..  The guy is very intelligent looks after a family well respected engaged in sport etc...  Whilst your views are understandable I find them to be pretty narrow minded.

Its a little like driving through the city past hundreds of groups of everyday drunks stumbling around out the front of pubs and clubs only to see a group of indigenous people drinking in the park and say 'There look! aboriginals are alcholic low lives always getting drunk!"'

 Now is this a likely situation for the man i know to maintain a daily habit and function normally whilst using the herb every day .... I'd say pretty unlikely!!! and i'd be the first to warn against it....  But when i read posts like Bunyips I just cringe..  The reality is a little bit of the herb in most cases isn't going to instantly destroy your life and turn you into some sort of depraved low life f@rkwit.. Young people will experiement no matter what you say.. better to give them relevant and relaistic information or you will  set off thier bs filter and they will ignore everything...

btw people who run bottleshops and pubs ruin peoples lives also


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## Julia (25 May 2006)

tarnor said:
			
		

> I love the stereotypes you guys churn out. I know of one guy who smoked pot since his teens now in his 50ths...  He recently resigned as the head master of a special school a position he held for many years where he used the herb daily..  The guy is very intelligent looks after a family well respected engaged in sport etc...  Whilst your views are understandable I find them to be pretty narrow minded.
> 
> Its a little like driving through the city past hundreds of groups of everyday drunks stumbling around out the front of pubs and clubs only to see a group of indigenous people drinking in the park and say 'There look! aboriginals are alcholic low lives always getting drunk!"'
> 
> ...




Tarnor

I guess we all relate to this subject on the basis of our own personal experiences.  You have described one individual who has apparently been able to keep his drug use within a manageable level.  That doesn't alter the fact that what he is doing is illegal.  (yeah, yeah, I can hear so many of you scoffing, like "that just doesn't count" etc.)

And then Mintman has so vividly described what he has seen happen.

I know which type of experience is the more common with repeated drug use.

Tarnor, my concern would be that someone who is presently undecided about using drugs or not may well read your post and feel it offers all the justification they need to say to themselves" well, there you are, it's quite safe after all".

 What I'd like all drug users to be able to do is spend a Saturday night in Accident and Emergency, especially in these days of increasing use of "Ice"
 and see the violence emanating from the people who have been brought in off the streets.  Or, as Bunyip has suggested, visit a psychiatric ward and see first hand the shells of what were once human beings who have destroyed themselves with drugs.

In the end, all of you will do what you want.  I just sincerely hope that those of us who have posted on this thread with our own experiences of the damage done in our lives by drugs may just have prompted you to reconsider the possible consequences of your choices.

I'm sure most of you who have espoused the benefits of drug use are bright young people with heaps of potential and, as I suggested earlier, the drug use is probably some sort of rite of passage.  I truly hope so.  It would just be such a pity to see your potential reduced by unnecessarily stupid behaviour.  My comments are from concern rather than a sense of judgment.

Julia


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## visual (25 May 2006)

Julia,unfortunately these sorts of posts re -recreational use,is even taught in schools.I suppose ,they are also not wanting to be judgemental and so on.I remember my son coming home after one of these classes,and telling me ,mum why dont they just say,dont use drugs,they were going on about what drugs do to you and how they affect you,so whats the point of telling us to use it with friends and to make sure you take it with lots of water.ect.and whick bodily parts are affected such as the brain ect
If they are bad why dont they just say so.

This I suppose was because my take on drugs has always been that the only people who would ever sell drugs and encourage drug use are morons who have a huge finacial stake in seeing people use something that allows them the drug pushers, have a standard of life that comes at a cost of lots of lifes being wasted.My hope is that what I`ve taught my children in terms of total abstinence ,means that they never actually think of drugs in terms of fun,and something to try.Even once.

Unfortunately they actually witnessed someone they actually liked completely lost to drugs and even though they were little what I had said to them drove the point home to that effect,I know that as a parent you can never say never,but at least ,they have both sides of the story to fall back on.


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## visual (25 May 2006)

And as for alcohol,for years I`ve heard the claim that Italian kids handle their alcohol better than Aussie kids because they are allowed to drink from an early age and therefore learn to handle alcohol better.Until I read an article in an Italian magazine that was relating the migrant experience with racism,the point he made was that if the Australian death rate due to car accidents involving alcohol was as high as in Italy there would be riots on the streets yet somehow being Italian or Greek in Australia meant that the brain was somehow so different that alcohol affected the brain differently.Not so ,therefore in his view a myth based on racism.Alcohol doesnt distinguish brains in terms of race or ethnicity it damages equally.

I`d never understood why this myth was  ever was accepted as fact ,until I read his take on it ,then it became clear.I`ve never let my children drink alcohol but it`s been a long struggle to keep grown ups from giving alcohol to my kids,unfortunately its presented as such a positive thing that even when people became better educated ,the superior feeling that this myth presents was too good to argue against.And when I relate this article to people,I invariably have to point out that alcohol kills brain cells and they dont get replaced,and developing brains cant afford to loose too many .Anyway thats my


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## bunyip (26 May 2006)

tarnor said:
			
		

> I love the stereotypes you guys churn out




It has nothing to do with stereotypes. I'm simply outlining some of the worst case scenarios that people potentially expose themselves to when they start using drugs. They may never end up in a psychiatric ward, they may never become violent animals who harm their own kids, they may never end up in jail, they may never end up in the back of an ambulance dying from an overdose.
In fact they may not even become addicted. 
But by using drugs they expose themselves to the possibility of suffering any or all of the above.
There's no disputing the fact that illicit drug use is the scourge of modern society, and results in thousands of people, most of them young, suffering the horrible consequences I've described above. And for what?....so they can get a cheap thrill, so they can be 'cool', so they can get a bit of short term pleasure or relaxation?
Surely it makes sense to seek our pleasure and relaxation in more wholesome, fulfilling ways that are legal and don't destroy lives. 



			
				tarnor said:
			
		

> The reality is a little bit of the herb in most cases isn't going to instantly destroy your life and turn you into some sort of depraved low life f@rkwit.




Nobody has claimed that drug use will instantly destroy you life and turn you into a depraved f@rkwit.
On the contrary, I clearly stated that according to my nursing friends, the psychotic state of mind that lands people in mental hospitals is brought about by years of drug abuse. It certainly doesn't happen overnight.
I also clearly stated that not every drug user becomes hopelessly addicted and completely destroys his or her life. 



			
				tarnor said:
			
		

> Young people will experiement no matter what you say.. better to give them relevant and relaistic information or you will set off thier bs filter and they will ignore everything




The information I gave is completely relevant and realistic. And if you choose to believe otherwise, then I suggest you give yourself a reality check by........
*Visiting an acute psychiatric ward in a hospital and talking to the staff.
*Signing up for service with one of those volunteer drug arm groups that go around cities at night, looking for really badly affected druggies, and trying to help them by giving them hot food, blankets, and calling for medical assistance if needed. 
*Talking to the staff at your local ambulance centre, and asking them to relate some of their experiences with regard to druggies.
*Visiting a drug rehabilitation centre to talk to the staff, and see first hand the shells of people who were once normal.

Bunyip


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## Kipp (28 May 2006)

bunyip said:
			
		

> It has nothing to do with stereotypes. I'm simply outlining some of the worst case scenarios that people potentially expose themselves to when they start using drugs. They may never end up in a psychiatric ward, they may never become violent animals who harm their own kids, they may never end up in jail, they may never end up in the back of an ambulance dying from an overdose.
> In fact they may not even become addicted.
> But by using drugs they expose themselves to the possibility of suffering any or all of the above.
> There's no disputing the fact that illicit drug use is the scourge of modern society, and results in thousands of people, most of them young, suffering the horrible consequences I've described above. And for what?....so they can get a cheap thrill, so they can be 'cool', so they can get a bit of short term pleasure or relaxation?
> ...




Why does any debate on drugs quickly dissolve into a moral showdown??  
There is never any discussion without judgement, and if it weren't for the internet, it'd be impossible to find any facts/opinions from users.  This thread was not started for moral highground... just curiousity.

The "just say no" message doesn't work.  People are curious, and have tried drugs as long as recorded history.

More people die from fishing than Ecstasy- but there is a media circus every time it happens.  Where is the "drug death" frenzy for the 80 people who die from smoking every day in Australia?


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## chemist (28 May 2006)

bunyip said:
			
		

> There's no disputing the fact that illicit drug use is the scourge of modern society, and results in thousands of people, most of them young, suffering the horrible consequences I've described above.




That's bull****. Anyone can dispute the claim that "illicit drug use is the scourge of modern society". I do so here, now. 



			
				bunyip said:
			
		

> And for what?....so they can get a cheap thrill, so they can be 'cool', so they can get a bit of short term pleasure or relaxation?
> Surely it makes sense to seek our pleasure and relaxation in more wholesome, fulfilling ways that are legal and don't destroy lives.




That's just clap-trap.



			
				bunyip said:
			
		

> Nobody has claimed that drug use will instantly destroy you life and turn you into a depraved f@rkwit.
> On the contrary, I clearly stated that according to my nursing friends, the psychotic state of mind that lands people in mental hospitals is brought about by years of drug abuse. It certainly doesn't happen overnight.
> I also clearly stated that not every drug user becomes hopelessly addicted and completely destroys his or her life.




Just a matter of personal choice then.

BTW, all lives are bound for destruction.

cheers,
Chemist


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## chemist (28 May 2006)

tarnor said:
			
		

> I love the stereotypes you guys churn out. I know of one guy who smoked pot since his teens now in his 50ths...  He recently resigned as the head master of a special school a position he held for many years where he used the herb daily..  The guy is very intelligent looks after a family well respected engaged in sport etc...  Whilst your views are understandable I find them to be pretty narrow minded.




Certainly, smoking herb doesn't prevent one from being a headmaster, or even a profitable trader.



			
				tarnor said:
			
		

> Its a little like driving through the city past hundreds of groups of everyday drunks stumbling around out the front of pubs and clubs only to see a group of indigenous people drinking in the park and say 'There look! aboriginals are alcholic low lives always getting drunk!"'
> 
> Now is this a likely situation for the man i know to maintain a daily habit and function normally whilst using the herb every day .... I'd say pretty unlikely!!!




I'd say there are for more people like that than you realize. Their main problem is covering up the smell. If you smoke regularly the acute effects are much less.



			
				tarnor said:
			
		

> and i'd be the first to warn against it....  But when i read posts like Bunyips I just cringe..  The reality is a little bit of the herb in most cases isn't going to instantly destroy your life and turn you into some sort of depraved low life f@rkwit.. Young people will experiement no matter what you say.. better to give them relevant and relaistic information or you will  set off thier bs filter and they will ignore everything...
> 
> btw people who run bottleshops and pubs ruin peoples lives also




Now you are pandering to the prohibitionists' depraved reasoning. If people are ruined by excessive voluntary consumption of alcohol, the blame lies with themselves, if there is any blame. They may simply have preferred life as an alcoholic: it is not for us to say what life someone else should have lead.

cheers,
Chemist


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## Smurf1976 (28 May 2006)

Kipp said:
			
		

> More people die from fishing than Ecstasy- but there is a media circus every time it happens.  Where is the "drug death" frenzy for the 80 people who die from smoking every day in Australia?



How many people go fishing, and how often, versus those using ecstasy? 

Likewise how many people smoke, and how many cigarettes do they smoke, versus those using ecstasy? 10 cigarettes per day for 10 years will do only modest harm to most. How many 25 year olds do you see with smoking-related illness? The odd one no doubt but not many.

Try taking 10 ecstasy pills per day or smoking pot 10 times per day for 10 years and it's likely to do a lot more harm than tobacco or moderate alcohol consumption. Not that cigarettes or alcohol are good for you, but it comes down to a dose / response relationship and in that context illegal drugs tend to have a pretty nasty effect pretty quickly compared to the (still harmful) legal ones. 

It's like driving at 40 versus 100 km/h. At 40 you have a lot more time to recover from a dangerous situation. Hence why there are 40 zones near schools etc where dangerous situations are likely to occur.


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## chemist (28 May 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> How many people go fishing, and how often, versus those using ecstasy?
> 
> Likewise how many people smoke, and how many cigarettes do they smoke, versus those using ecstasy? 10 cigarettes per day for 10 years will do only modest harm to most. How many 25 year olds do you see with smoking-related illness? The odd one no doubt but not many.
> 
> ...




I never understood the argument that "drugs" (always the undifferentiated plural -- they'll all the same, doncha know?) need to be banned because they cause ill health. At best it is a socialist idea: the infantile substitution of the State for the mother. Mummy says not to touch the lollies! Mummy says lollies aren't good! I'm telling!

Unlike you I am a grown-up so my health is my business. 

cheers,
Chemist


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## visual (29 May 2006)

chemist said:
			
		

> I never understood the argument that "drugs" (always the undifferentiated plural -- they'll all the same, doncha know?) need to be banned because they cause ill health. At best it is a socialist idea: the infantile substitution of the State for the mother. Mummy says not to touch the lollies! Mummy says lollies aren't good! I'm telling!
> 
> Unlike you I am a grown-up so my health is my business.
> 
> ...




Chemist,and thats exactly the attititude,that keeps drug dealers in business,and under 25 filling a disproportinate number of graves,not to mention the sky high insurance costs for under 25.Also the reason why hospitals are now building special rooms to contain peple affected by drugs especially the cheap and nasty kind like ecxasty and ice.


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