# SPI Trading on Interactive Brokers



## jersey10

I am currently using my Interactive Brokers simulated trading account to learn about SPI trading.  From what i have read from some good posters on this forum the BookTrader feature can be useful if you can get a read from it and use it in conjunction with a chart? I have watched these numbers bouncing around on the BookTrader and really struggle to gain any insight as to how it may show where the SPI is going?

I have pasted a 1 minute chart above next to the BookTrader.  Obviously the chart shows the SPI screaming upwards. My question is how do you read the figures listed in the BookTrader to get some information about what is going to happen next?


----------



## Pager

I trade the spi and to be honest i cant get a handle on how the booktrader thing is going to help 

So i too would be interested in what advantage people gain from it as well 

I obviously don't use it 

IB are good though, the platform or market data have the odd hiccup but overall at $5 per side and free data and charts its hard to beat.


----------



## MRC & Co

Wait and hope TH does his videos, it's hard to explain.  I'm not allowed to record, slows the execution and apparently there are copyright restrains on the software I use.

Your basically looking for order *flow* (so a static picture like the one you posted won't help a bit), trying to work out if supply or demand is stronger, watch it enough and trade on the SIM with it for many hours and you should start to develop some kind of feel and recognise patterns you can trade (usually for a quick scalp), just like you can see patterns on a chart.

As for how to use it with a chart, if you notice a weak pattern on the chart for your market, you can use the DOM to try and time your entry, do you want to cross the spread or try use limit orders to take fills etc.  

Like anything, it takes many many hours of practice (screen time) and is not fool proof.  It's just one tool to add to your arsenal, along with reading the price action on the chart (patterns that relate to your market) and using basic things such as support/resistance (from multiple timeframes) and trendlines.  That is how nearly all scalpers play.


----------



## skyQuake

Yep, just _screentime_ 
A good place to start would be to see what side is being hit and by how much... Think TH made a very good comment a while back about how the orders sitting there are rubbish.


----------



## jersey10

Pager said:


> IB are good though, the platform or market data have the odd hiccup but overall at $5 per side and free data and charts its hard to beat.




I guess today is one of those hiccups


----------



## Bronte

Looks like TH has got us all watching the DOM
Bronte


----------



## jersey10

Bronte said:


> Looks like TH has got us all watching the DOM
> Bronte




yeah but there is a big difference between watching it and making any money out of watching it.  As skyQuake has mentioned above, i'll just keep watching it and see if i can start picking things up over time.  Hopefully if i can get some sort of read out of it i'll be confident enough to start dabbling with some real coin.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Jersey, Find patterns that re-occur in the SPI first. Then use the DOM to get good entries (small MAE).

Otherwise you will just end up jumping at shadows.


----------



## Bronte

jersey10 said:


> yeah but there is a big difference between watching it and making any money out of watching it.



Yes I certainly agree with this jersey10,
(we have been to Jersey...loved the island very much) 
I paid extra for many many years to have market depth on my pagers.
Hutchison NewsPager II and then my Orange Motorola PocketWatch.
Can not say it helped me to make any money 'Trading the SPI'....
Fell into obvious traps (seen now) and lost if anything.
Trembling Hand is the expert here.
Good luck with this jersey10.
Bronte


----------



## julius

Hi TH,

Are you taking about finding patterns in the charts, then matching them with patterns in the order book to time your entries ?




Trembling Hand said:


> Jersey, Find patterns that re-occur in the SPI first. Then use the DOM to get good entries (small MAE).
> 
> Otherwise you will just end up jumping at shadows.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Todays low was a classic example. In hindsite that's a perfect entry. In practise you can see something like that happening in the orderbook before the charts show it. You can see the orders hitting the bid to push prices down testing the low but the quick filling of prices to defend that support.

Same thing happened on the lows on the 15th. You didn't need to look at charts to see that buyers were coming in before we bounced off that low. The whole orderbook changed. On the way down it looked like a bot hitting bids and stuffing more orders behind it. But once we hit 3483 it changed first it happened with buy orders defending 3483 then once that got some grip we had a complete reverse of the order book and at market orders chewing through the sell orders and stuffing the bid side.

So the chart patten is a classic reversal with climatic volume but that is developed by traders hitting the market. The change is seen in the DOM a lot easier than in the charts. When traders are willing to refresh orders as they get chewed you see the new buying interest before we actually rise. The trick is to get ready to front run lifting of orders OR try and get a 1-3 tick entry off the low. Its a signal to catch a knife.

Similar thing happens at tops but normally you get more of a ^ or tick high then reverse.


----------



## MRC & Co

Gotta love those 5 lot icebergs!


----------



## Cartman

Trembling Hand said:


> Similar thing happens at tops but normally you get more of *a ^ or tick high* then reverse.




i dont read DOM --- but  just an observation ive been forward testing (with some pretty good results) which i think fits yr description Trembler ------- to paraphrase yr point -----  (re the *high/short position*)

u r talking about the spike high at the *end of a cycle* ----- if the spike is on *falling *momentum and particularly if the high is a *lower* high (but not essential) ,  its a pretty good signal we have a reversal on our plate ------------ so far i'm running at around 80% success rate on these types of trades, but the 20% can give u a hard time if they run fast against u -----   working on the MM/staking side of that atm to see if i can get an edge worth pursuing -----

i have no point to make ---- other than the average punter (me)  may be able to gain a similar advantage to DOM reading if they couple the momentum action with price action ----- all a work in progress  4 me atm, but happy with the results so far --


----------



## pilbara

jersey10 said:


> Obviously the chart shows the SPI screaming upwards. My question is how do you read the figures listed in the BookTrader to get some information about what is going to happen next?



looking at the chart it looks like it's slowing up, so you'd look in the book for evidence of reversal, eg the 50 bid at 3503 never really getting much above the 3500 psych level, or the 38 at 3511 and 28 at 3510 falling below 3510.  So maybe look to go short at 3508, and see if it falls to retest the 3500 level, with the aim of buying back in at 3497.  What is your aim, scalping 10 points in a move?


----------



## dmue

hey guys,

can someone pls help- im looking at intraday trading the SPI eminis, what is the best/cheapest trading platform/charting for the SPI?
also does anyone know who has the lowest minimum deposit?

i wanna get back in with maybe opening range breaks and the occasional scalp.

thanks


----------



## Trembling Hand

SPi eminis


----------



## ivant

dmue said:


> hey guys,
> 
> can someone pls help- im looking at intraday trading the SPI eminis, what is the best/cheapest trading platform/charting for the SPI?
> also does anyone know who has the lowest minimum deposit?
> 
> i wanna get back in with maybe opening range breaks and the occasional scalp.
> 
> thanks




dmue, what do you mean SPI eminis? do you mean fifths of a contract? IE instead of $25 a point, $5 or less?

Check out a CFD provider for that. I started out on IG markets, they are ok. Maybe not awesome for scalping, because they apparently create spikes. Their minimum deposit is nothing, however you need to maintain a thousand for every mini contract that you have, a fifth that is. Obviously, if you are down a thousand, you need to have another thousand in there, otherwise you get closed out. So in essence you probably want to have at least 1500 per fifth of a contract. When you start out, you can trade even smaller sizes. They have a guaranteed 2 point spread and officially no commission. Where they get you is you have to pay interest on your positions if you are long (in the spot market). 

I had an account with CMC and i think their margins are smaller, but I never got to trade with them because their platform drove me up the wall.


----------



## sails

Does any know what happens to bracket orders if IB goes down?  I just lost connection to IB for a while and their system status page indicated a problem/outage.  Fortunately didn't have a trade in otherwise would have phoned IB immediately - but just wondering if anyone knows?


----------



## Trembling Hand

sails said:


> Does any know what happens to bracket orders if IB goes down?  I just lost connection to IB for a while and their system status page indicated a problem/outage.  Fortunately didn't have a trade in otherwise would have phoned IB immediately - but just wondering if anyone knows?




I think they are held on IBs servers not at the ASX


----------



## sails

Trembling Hand said:


> I think they are held on IBs servers not at the ASX




Thanks TH.  Hopefully that is so!  Looks like they are still having problems - just lost connection again (all other internet is OK).


----------



## Aussiest

dmue said:


> im looking at intraday trading the SPI eminis,




Hi everyone,

Nobody ever really answered this question 

Can you trade SPI emini's using IB? I've had a look at their website and on one hand they say you can, but under the Sydney Futures link, it didn't say anything. Infact, i couldn't open the link. 

If so, how much margin would one SPI emini require? I could try to email IB, but they their links haven't been working lately.

Also, i am gathering you can see market depth in IB? 

And, final question, can you run IB concurrently with other platforms?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Aussiest said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Nobody ever really answered this question
> 
> Can you trade SPI emini's using IB? I've had a look at their website and on one hand they say you can, but under the Sydney Futures link, it didn't say anything. Infact, i couldn't open the link.
> 
> If so, how much margin would one SPI emini require? I could try to email IB, but they their links haven't been working lately.
> 
> Also, i am gathering you can see market depth in IB?
> 
> And, final question, can you run IB concurrently with other platforms?




Aussiest  exactly what do you mean by "SPI emini".

There is the SPI traded on the SNFE and there are linked CFDs provided by the bucketshops. There is a $5 or $10 a tick ASX contract that NEVER trades.

Which one are you talking of? when you make a sensible description you may then get an answer.


----------



## Aussiest

Like the mini contracts.





I think they're $5 per tick. The full contract on IG is $25 per tick. Just wondering whether you can trade in increments of a full contract on IB, so i can save on margin. In other words, i want to risk less. I am happy to make $5-10 per tick. I think that was a sensible description. 

I think i'll just have to fund the account and see what it does.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Aussiest said:


> Like the mini contracts.
> 
> I think they're $5 per tick. The full contract on IG is $25 per tick. Just wondering whether you can trade in increments of a full contract on IB, so i can save on margin. In other words, i want to risk less. I am happy to make $5-10 per tick. I think that was a sensible description.
> 
> I think i'll just have to fund the account and see what it does.




Bloody hell mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IG is a CFD provider.

IB is a broker. You trade two completely different things.

That IG contract exist no where except on their servers. IB products go to MARKET


----------



## skc

Aussiest said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Nobody ever really answered this question
> 
> Can you trade SPI emini's using IB? I've had a look at their website and on one hand they say you can, but under the Sydney Futures link, it didn't say anything. Infact, i couldn't open the link.
> 
> If so, how much margin would one SPI emini require? I could try to email IB, but they their links haven't been working lately.




Are you refering to these? 
http://www.asx.com.au/products/futures/trading_information/iress_codes.htm 

$10 a tick, margin for XJO is $3270.

According to the asx website the code should be xjm9 but I can't find them in IB. 

If TH doesn't know they exist then I hate to think about their liquidity. Although there could be market makers out there. 

It might be a new product asx trying to push to get more smaller punters into the fray. Just like their other "successful" product known as ASX CFD!

EDIT: Hmmm. Perhaps not what you were looking for based on your IG screenshot!


----------



## skc

Trembling Hand said:


> Bloody hell mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> IG is a CFD provider.
> 
> IB is a broker. You trade two completely different things.
> 
> That IG contract exist no where except on their servers. IB products go to MARKET




Oh well. There had been someone on this forum asking which market the Aussie200 is traded. Everyone goes through this at some stage.


----------



## Aussiest

Trembling Hand said:


> Bloody hell mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> IG is a CFD provider.
> 
> IB is a broker. You trade two completely different things.
> 
> That IG contract exist no where except on their servers. IB products go to MARKET




I'm not a 'mate', i'm a girl. And, i was asking because i don't know. If you don't want to answer, that's fine! Just say so. 

And, also, i do know the difference between a CFD provider and a broker. Just wondering if you can get part contracts that's all. All you had to do was say no!


----------



## Largesse

Aussiest said:


> I'm not a 'mate', i'm a girl. And, i was asking because i don't know. If you don't want to answer, that's fine! Just say so.
> 
> And, also, i do know the difference between a CFD provider and a broker. Just wondering if you can get part contracts that's all. All you had to do was say no!




a/s/l ?


----------



## Aussiest

skc said:


> Are you refering to these?
> http://www.asx.com.au/products/futures/trading_information/iress_codes.htm
> 
> $10 a tick, margin for XJO is $3270.
> 
> According to the asx website the code should be xjm9 but I can't find them in IB.
> 
> If TH doesn't know they exist then I hate to think about their liquidity. Although there could be market makers out there.
> 
> It might be a new product asx trying to push to get more smaller punters into the fray. Just like their other "successful" product known as ASX CFD!
> 
> EDIT: Hmmm. Perhaps not what you were looking for based on your IG screenshot!




Yeah, thanks skc. I think i'll just fund the darn thing and see for myself!


----------



## cutz

Hi Aussiest,

Yeah i know what you're referring to, they are meant to be traded across the exchange, and I investigated those as a hedging instrument for XJO options as they both trade at $10 per point but I could not find evidence of liquidity on iress so I gave up.

Let us know how you go, SPI contracts are just too big to tweak positions.


----------



## cutz

Hello again,

I found some march stats. here on XJO futures http://www.asx.com.au/products/pdf/notices/2009/Clm03709.pdf , info on last page, looks like there's nil trading/open interest.


----------



## Trembling Hand

cutz said:


> Hello again,
> 
> I found some march stats. here on XJO futures http://www.asx.com.au/products/pdf/notices/2009/Clm03709.pdf , info on last page, looks like there's nil trading/open interest.



Exactly they are useless.



Aussiest said:


> I'm not a 'mate', i'm a girl. And, i was asking because i don't know. If you don't want to answer, that's fine! Just say so.
> 
> And, also, i do know the difference between a CFD provider and a broker. Just wondering if you can get part contracts that's all. All you had to do was say no!




I find it *amazing* that someone would be considering trading, especially a derivative and not actually know what it is, where the money goes and how it functions!! 

but then again I guess thats why we have threads like brisconnect.


----------



## Mr J

> And, final question, can you run IB concurrently with other platforms?




I don't see why you couldn't, if you're talking other brokerage software. Other people certainly run other data feeds and charting platforms.



> Also, i am gathering you can see market depth in IB?




Yes. Someone said SNFE data is free? ASX is 37.50 monthly.



> If so, how much margin would one SPI emini require?




There is no SPI emini at IB, just the full contract (SPI). It requires $6000 per contract during the day, and $10,000 overnight.


----------



## cutz

Aussiest said:


> And, final question, can you run IB concurrently with other platforms?




Hi,

I run Iress and TWS concurrently on a dual screen Mac, works beautifully.


BTW, i can't comment on other programs as i only use the Mac purely for trading on the above applications, i use a windows laptop for all the other stuff, (office/browsing/email ect.)


----------



## MRC & Co

Aussiest said:


> I'm not a 'mate', i'm a girl. And, i was asking because i don't know. If you don't want to answer, that's fine! Just say so.





Ooooo, a female trader and with some backbone, I like that!  

A/s/l hey Largesse, ha ha ha. 

An internet fantasy right there!


----------



## Largesse

MRC & Co said:


> Ooooo, a female trader and with some backbone, I like that!
> 
> A/s/l hey Largesse, ha ha ha.
> 
> An internet fantasy right there!


----------



## Aussiest

Trembling Hand said:


> Exactly they are useless.
> I find it *amazing* that someone would be considering trading, especially a derivative and not actually know what it is, where the money goes and how it functions!!




Really? Whoever said i was trading it? And, by the way, people here say they trade in companies they know nothing about, all the time. So, if you didn't want to answer the question, all you had to do was say so. Simple.


----------



## beamstas

GO Markets offer increments on the SPI on the MT4 platform

I think it's $25 a tick and $2 brokerage for a full contract

And im pretty sure you can trade them right down to 0.1contracts ie: $2.5 a tick and $0.2 brokerage

Hope this helps in your endeavours

Cheers
Brad


----------



## MRC & Co

Aussiest said:


> Really? Whoever said i was trading it? And, by the way, people here say they trade in companies they know nothing about, all the time. So, if you didn't want to answer the question, all you had to do was say so. Simple.




Just be careful, trading a company without knowing it can be done with relative safety through TA, trading a derivative can't without full knowledge of it!

Beamstas, $2 for a round trip per full contract?  Is that without paying a spread?


----------



## beamstas

MRC & Co said:


> Just be careful, trading a company without knowing it can be done with relative safety through TA, trading a derivative can't without full knowledge of it!
> 
> Beamstas, $2 for a round trip per full contract?  Is that without paying a spread?




There is a spread
It's sitting at 5 ticks right now
I've never actually traded it!

I think it is $2 brokerage but im sure someone on here is a Go/Mt4 guru and can answer our questions 

Cheers
Brad


----------



## MRC & Co

beamstas said:


> There is a spread
> It's sitting at 5 ticks right now
> I've never actually traded it!
> 
> I think it is $2 brokerage but im sure someone on here is a Go/Mt4 guru and can answer our questions
> 
> Cheers
> Brad




Yeh, but it's not trading and the spread is probably from night SPI, wonder what it is during regular day hours.......

Yes, hopefully a Go person can answer........


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> Just be careful, trading a company without knowing it can be done with relative safety through TA, trading a derivative can't without full knowledge of it!




Why is that? In case the person doesn't know of the expiry?


----------



## MRC & Co

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Why is that? In case the person doesn't know of the expiry?




Expiration, leverage (trading a companies shares will only leave you exposed to your initial risk), systems go down or power outage (could be cruel if you have size on).  Derivatives can be a lot more dangerous if you don't understand what your doing, regardless of your TA skill, a lot have blown themselves up already and a lot more will I am sure.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Yeah thats what I thought 

I have been trading futures on a demo account using Ninja Trader, trading the DAX, SP500 etc, jumping in and out on the opens etc with a bit of success....so far, I must say I thorougly enjoy it, I used to trade CFDs and this for me personally, feels much more comfortable, only demo trading I know so you guys are probably laughing at me but oh well, gotta start somewhere, do any of you guys trade those markets through IB? Or just the SPI? Sorry for the off topic-ness 

Thanks for the replies too, will check out the almighty brisconnection thread...


----------



## beamstas

I agree with MRC
You can position size an equities trade and buy say 5634 shares at a certain $ risk and that is o.k

But when you are trading derivities, it's alot harder to position size to a small amount of your account

Lets say some newbie with $20,000 goes and buys 10 SPI Contracts not really knowing what he is doing, And goes to bed say 10 points in profit ($2500) and has wet dreams all night thinking about how he is going to spend the money, *THEN* wake up and see the market has gapped down 100 points ($25000) and you were trading IG Markets SPI CFD and not a real contract thus your S/L didn't activate over night! $5000 in debt to the bucket shop! 

*I'd advise anyone who is trading futures to know exactly what they are doing because a mistake can be brutal!*


----------



## cutz

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Thanks for the replies too, will check out the almighty brisconnection thread...




Sorry i pulled my post, just realized you guys were talking futures, but yeah check it out.


----------



## MRC & Co

Sam, good to hear your enjoying it, much better seeing the live order flow than simply a CFD huh!

Na, not laughing at you, everyone has to start somewhere and your doing that in the right environment, on a SIM!  I haven't been trading futures for too long myself either!

I haven't traded S&P or DAX through IB, both would be extremelly hard (in their busy periods anyways, I would imagine), but TH trades HSI through IB, so if you can do HSI, I imagine you could manage S&P, unsure about DAX though, execution may be a lot slower to Europe...........?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Thanks MRC, their "busy" time would be while we are sound asleep here wouldn't it?

I have been trading, starting at about 10:30pm here, jumping in and out, definitiely not holding overnight, learn't that lesson with CFDs  

I think their market opens at about 11:30pm our time? Am I correct? Seems to be that way anyway, usually I do a couple trades when it starts picking up then I shoot off to bed, seems to be working for me so far.

I understand they are a fair bit more liquid that our market here, you guys only trade the open and close of the SPI don't you? 

And yep, I sure do love watching that order flow rather than the CFD MM rubbish.  I find that I can see about 100x more watching the DOM and a naked chart, than I can looking at a million fancy indicators.


----------



## MRC & Co

Yeh, their busy times are at their opens.  S&P 11:30pm, DAX at 4pm I believe.

Not sure about TH, I trade mainly open, try avoid lunch (but always get sucked in ), and I usually give close a crack, to mixed success, sometimes I have it worked out, then I don't.  Still working on doing it more consistent.  

If your trading open, the DOM will probably help most, as order flow is the most important at this time I believe, as no intraday levels or trends have been established yet.  Daily levels, gaps can still be useful though.


----------



## Largesse

ThingyMajiggy what data feed are you using for your sim on NT?


----------



## Largesse

or if anyone could recommend a good free feed for simulating SPI/HSI and maybe the S&P


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

I'm using PFGBest, I don't think I can trade the SPI, hence I have been trading the DAX, SP etc, but I'm enjoying trading them none the less. 

OEC has a half decent demo platform you can try too, again, don't think you can trade SPI on the demo, but everything else you can. It only lasts 14 days though, but its not too bad for getting your feet wet.


----------



## sails

MRC & Co said:


> ... $2 for a round trip per full contract?  Is that without paying a spread?




Haven't funded the Go account yet, but I'm pretty sure you can only buy at the offer and sell at the bid.  I would think the $3 you save on IB fees is a pittance compared to paying the spread of at least one point ($25) on entry/exit.


----------



## Trembling Hand

sails said:


> Haven't funded the Go account yet, but I'm pretty sure you can only buy at the offer and sell at the bid.  I would think the $3 you save on IB fees is a pittance compared to paying the spread of at least one point ($25) on entry/exit.




Yep.


----------



## MRC & Co

sails said:


> Haven't funded the Go account yet, but I'm pretty sure you can only buy at the offer and sell at the bid.  I would think the $3 you save on IB fees is a pittance compared to paying the spread of at least one point ($25) on entry/exit.




Ah, so no limit orders is the 'catch'.  I get it now, sounded too good to be true, thx Sails.


----------



## baxter

Thought I might reply to a few questions/comments with my experience in the last couple of months of using the IB Platform.  

I have my IB Datafeed connected to Ninja Trader, as their charting capability is so vastly superior to IB charts (a lot of additional data is available, ease of manipulating charts, etc.), and I'm using Bracket Trader to enter my orders.  I've traded the SPI, the DAX and the S&P emini, and all of them transact immediately, at any time of the day while they're open.  

I'm using Bracket Trader because it's a simpler yet more intuitive program for entering trades, particularly if you want to enter a profit target and a stop loss at the exact time you enter the trade (which is also possible using IB's platform, but IMO, no where near as simple).  

The DAX is no different to trade than any other futures product, but it certainly moves quickly, and at $25 Euro per point, you should know a little about it before you start trading it.  It currently requires an initial margin of $8661 Euro, so that probably counts a few people out that don't have at least that in their account.  Data costs $12 Euro per month.  Other than that, the SPI data is free, and the US data is only $10US/month, or free if you have $30US worth of brokerage per month, so very cheap data through IB.

I've had an IB Feed, ThinkorSwim feed, and an eSignal feed all running through my computer at the same time with no troubles (and of course numerous other programs open at the same time).

I've also looked at and traded Go Trader's products in the past, including futures on their Metatrader platform.  They used to offer mini contracts on futures, down to 1/10 of a contract, but these were in fact CFD's and not actual futures contracts.  However they no longer offer futures on Metatrader, but rather just on their Go Trader platform (they have 2 platforms), and the futures on the Go Trader platform have much higher commission rates (but at least they're real futures contracts).

As for using the DOM, you can certainly gain some insight by watching it and seeing how it moves.  But it takes a long time to get that experience.  It really is just a depth screen with the sell side flipped upwards, and the ability to enter orders very quickly.  I don't actually use the DOM information for entering trades, but enter off the charts as my entry signal, then use the speed of the DOM to execute and often to get a slightly better entry (most of my trades are off 1 and 5 min charts).  So after many years of watching depth screens for trading, it didn't take me long to get used to using the DOM.  

Hope that helps a little.

Cheers,
Baxter.


----------



## cutz

Hi Guys,

Couple of SPI beginner questions here,

What time does the daily settlement occur and is there such a thing as a rollover contract, if there is what's the IB ticker code.

Thank in advance.


----------



## MONEYKING

baxter said:


> Thought I might reply to a few questions/comments with my experience in the last couple of months of using the IB Platform.
> 
> I have my IB Datafeed connected to Ninja Trader, as their charting capability is so vastly superior to IB charts (a lot of additional data is available, ease of manipulating charts, etc.), and I'm using Bracket Trader to enter my orders.  I've traded the SPI, the DAX and the S&P emini, and all of them transact immediately, at any time of the day while they're open.
> 
> I'm using Bracket Trader because it's a simpler yet more intuitive program for entering trades, particularly if you want to enter a profit target and a stop loss at the exact time you enter the trade (which is also possible using IB's platform, but IMO, no where near as simple).
> 
> The DAX is no different to trade than any other futures product, but it certainly moves quickly, and at $25 Euro per point, you should know a little about it before you start trading it.  It currently requires an initial margin of $8661 Euro, so that probably counts a few people out that don't have at least that in their account.  Data costs $12 Euro per month.  Other than that, the SPI data is free, and the US data is only $10US/month, or free if you have $30US worth of brokerage per month, so very cheap data through IB.
> 
> I've had an IB Feed, ThinkorSwim feed, and an eSignal feed all running through my computer at the same time with no troubles (and of course numerous other programs open at the same time).
> 
> I've also looked at and traded Go Trader's products in the past, including futures on their Metatrader platform.  They used to offer mini contracts on futures, down to 1/10 of a contract, but these were in fact CFD's and not actual futures contracts.  However they no longer offer futures on Metatrader, but rather just on their Go Trader platform (they have 2 platforms), and the futures on the Go Trader platform have much higher commission rates (but at least they're real futures contracts).
> 
> As for using the DOM, you can certainly gain some insight by watching it and seeing how it moves.  But it takes a long time to get that experience.  It really is just a depth screen with the sell side flipped upwards, and the ability to enter orders very quickly.  I don't actually use the DOM information for entering trades, but enter off the charts as my entry signal, then use the speed of the DOM to execute and often to get a slightly better entry (most of my trades are off 1 and 5 min charts).  So after many years of watching depth screens for trading, it didn't take me long to get used to using the DOM.
> 
> Hope that helps a little.
> 
> Cheers,
> Baxter.




hi could you give me your opinion on what you think of MF Globel trading platform.i have been using them sins January how does it compare to other platforms you used. i am only trading the SPI


----------



## baxter

Hi Moneyking,

Not sure if you read my post properly - I'm using IB's platform - I didn't mention MF Global and have never used them for trading futures so can't comment much about them.  But perhaps you could tell us a little bit more about using their platform if you've been with them since January (brokerage costs, margins, data feed costs, platform costs, speed of execution, charting programs, order entry etc...)

Cutz - not sure quite what you were asking.  The SPI trades each day from 9:50am till 4:30pm and then from 5:10pm to 7:00am or so (depending on day light savings), and trades on a quarterly contract.  I'm not sure if there is a 'continuous' contract on IB which links past contracts together - I haven't looked for it either though.  Maybe someone else knows?  The current contract through IB is listed as "APU9" on SNFE and as "SPI 09-09" in Ninja Trader.

Cheers,
Baxter.


----------



## Mr J

> I'm not sure if there is a 'continuous' contract on IB which links past contracts together - I haven't looked for it either though. Maybe someone else knows? The current contract through IB is listed as "APU9" on SNFE and as "SPI 09-09" in Ninja Trader.




There's always the SPI index itself.


----------



## baxter

Mr J said:


> There's always the SPI index itself.




On IB's platform the XJO is described as "Index SPI", but really there's no such thing as "the SPI index".  There is the XJO which is the index or the 'cash' (which you can't trade), and there is the SPI which is the futures contract based on the XJO.  

They obviously move similarly (but not exactly the same) during the time when the our market is open, but once our market is closed, the SPI follows the rest of the world markets trying predict where our market will open the next day - which is why most of the big moves on the SPI happen overnight, and generally why it's really quite a crappy instrument to trade.  

When I was talking about a 'continuous' contract, I was referring to, for example, on eSignal, they have a symbol 'ES 1!' which in effect links together all the previous S&P emini contracts.  This enables you to do some backtesting on more than just the current futures contract, and is quite different from doing backtesting on the index itself.

Cheers,
Baxter.


----------



## cutz

baxter said:


> Cutz - not sure quite what you were asking.  The SPI trades each day from 9:50am till 4:30pm and then from 5:10pm to 7:00am or so (depending on day light savings), and trades on a quarterly contract.  I'm not sure if there is a 'continuous' contract on IB which links past contracts together - I haven't looked for it either though.  Maybe someone else knows?  The current contract through IB is listed as "APU9" on SNFE and as "SPI 09-09" in Ninja Trader.
> 
> Cheers,
> Baxter.




Hi Baxter,

Yeah i'm aware of the trading times, my query was just relating to the price change on the quote panel, for example ATM it's -34, i assume that's the change from yesterdays day session close.? not the night session.

As for the rollover contract i was referring to, i came it across somewhere, can't remember where, i guess it's just as easy executing a spread.


----------



## MONEYKING

baxter said:


> Hi Moneyking,
> 
> Not sure if you read my post properly - I'm using IB's platform - I didn't mention MF Global and have never used them for trading futures so can't comment much about them.  But perhaps you could tell us a little bit more about using their platform if you've been with them since January (brokerage costs, margins, data feed costs, platform costs, speed of execution, charting programs, order entry etc...)
> 
> Cutz - not sure quite what you were asking.  The SPI trades each day from 9:50am till 4:30pm and then from 5:10pm to 7:00am or so (depending on day light savings), and trades on a quarterly contract.  I'm not sure if there is a 'continuous' contract on IB which links past contracts together - I haven't looked for it either though.  Maybe someone else knows?  The current contract through IB is listed as "APU9" on SNFE and as "SPI 09-09" in Ninja Trader.
> 
> Cheers,
> Baxter.




Hi baxter
there charts is not to bad buy & sell cost $15.90 and you can buy a contract for $4000 that is on a margin i attach a trading platform for you .i am using e-Midas platform from mf globel equity's just to see how the top 20 shares are trading and the xjo i run there charts on 2-minutes.i would like to see your trading platform, today's trading platform of mine


----------



## cutz

Hi Guys,

Does a limit stop order set during the day session stay in the system so it remains active for the night session.


----------



## MONEYKING

cutz said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Does a limit stop order set during the day session stay in the system so it remains active for the night session.




no as far as i now my trading platform i have to change it do not leave  a open order on the night trade if you not going to sit at youre screen sell rather just not just leave it it cost me $20 000.00 4 moths ago.i let my broker now over the phone to put a stop loss the night trading is very thin can fall easy  threw stop loss


----------



## skyQuake

Rather not have stops on the night session. 50pt spread anyone? Not cool at all.

Also, anyone having troubles logging in?


----------



## cutz

Thanks guys,

Yep i agree probably not a good idea( night stops ), just getting to know my way around this instrument.


----------



## amy997

Hi

I really wanted to start a new thread to post this in but for some reason I wasn't allowed, so mods please feel free to move this post.

My comment is about market orders v's limit orders.

I have read a lot on these forums on the virtues of limit orders over market orders, but in trading the spi I have found the opposite to be true. 

When i place limit orders in the market i find that about half these won't be filled, price will touch me but then move away before collecting me. So I miss out on a lot of trades that would have been profitable for me, but I am always going to get filled on a trade that is going to be stopped out. 

As a result of this I have found that days where i use limit orders will almost always end in losses where days i use market orders will almost always be profitable. 

I no longer use limit orders but i just wonder whether anyone else has experienced anything similar or perhaps i am doing something wrong in setting my limit orders to have such a poor fill rate.


----------



## skyQuake

amy997 said:


> Hi
> 
> I really wanted to start a new thread to post this in but for some reason I wasn't allowed, so mods please feel free to move this post.
> 
> My comment is about market orders v's limit orders.
> 
> I have read a lot on these forums on the virtues of limit orders over market orders, but in trading the spi I have found the opposite to be true.
> 
> When i place limit orders in the market i find that about half these won't be filled, price will touch me but then move away before collecting me. So I miss out on a lot of trades that would have been profitable for me, but I am always going to get filled on a trade that is going to be stopped out.
> 
> As a result of this I have found that days where i use limit orders will almost always end in losses where days i use market orders will almost always be profitable.
> 
> I no longer use limit orders but i just wonder whether anyone else has experienced anything similar or perhaps i am doing something wrong in setting my limit orders to have such a poor fill rate.




Cause its a thin bot infested market...

Are you trading live or on sims?

Lots of traders use mkt to enter, and limits to exit.


----------



## amy997

I am trading live

I now use markets to enter and limits to exit. I was trying to use limits for both


----------



## Pit Trader

Spi on IB is very good considering the free charts and $10 round turn !!!


----------



## SevenFX

Just a heads up for the Newbees.

If your account was created via the USA IB site then you will most likely be connected to thier primary servers, in which case at around 2pm-2.30pm AU time you may be disconnected or disrupted from trading, worse still not able to close out your trade. This is due to US restarting their servers 12midnight US time.

Only solution is to move your account to the Hong Kong servers which IB helpdesk can assist, which residing in AU will give you better connection times (too USA is around 250ms whereas HK is around 150ms with any reasonable broadband connection)

Cheers
SevenFX


----------

