# LCT - Living Cell Technologies



## Sprinter79 (24 May 2007)

An ann the other day that will help out with the upcoming clinical trials of their product.

The crux of the ann is this: "LCT is the first and only company in the world to have established the necessary current requirements for animal cell transplants – through a biocertified pig herd, GMP cell processing
facilities and now the accredited diagnostic monitoring laboratory."

Diabetes is on the rise, hand in hand with obesity, so studies and breakthroughs in this area are good news.


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## Caliente (23 October 2007)

Thought i might add this to the discussion on LCT.

nice to see the churn happening; Merrill describes this churn as a shift from value to growth investors. A lot of happy punters from lower prices will be tempted to sell or free carry here and they are being bought into by growth investors who are looking beyond at the potential for this company.

As for Biotech, it can be a dangerous game because there is so much bullsh*t out there.

I've been burnt before - I thought I had a good thing at MBP post obesity trial disaster before it tanked again.

Thats why I make my next investment foray into biotech very cautiously. So why is LCT a better bio to invest in, and not a dud?

1. Proven patient base - Type 1 diabetics and insulin dependent Type 2 diabetics (uncontrolled by triple therapy [i.e. metformin/glitazones/sulphonylureas]). 

Note: 10-15% of all diabetics are Type I IDDM (Insulin dependent Diabetes Mellitus).

Diabetes is the worlds fastest growing chronic disease in Australia and the world.

2. Easy to monitor outcomes - BGL monitoring is simple and accurate.

3. Physiology -

(A) bodies need insulin to control glucose levels, driving blood glucose into the liver into storage form (glycogen) and cells

(B) If you can replace the insulin you have cure. Currently as type 1 diabetics know, you need to inject insulin everyday - and depending on your requirements this can be once daily or two to three times daily. Insulin comes in many forms fast acting (i.e. ActRapid)/short acting/longacting i.e. Lantus/Lemevir.

C) Porcine Insulin is a proven product. In fact many insulin analogues are already porcine variant, so we use it already and it has been proven safe over millions of patients over many years.

D) So what are Living Cell doing? They are implanting porcine cells to take over the job the human cells were doing previously, but are now unable to do. (Many reasons - wikipedia it )

Proven market. Proven physiology.
Proven Product.

And apparently - working well on the patients they've implanted so far. It's lovely to see proper human trials - as much as I love lab rats I'd rather see results in fellow beings =)

So what are the trials for?

SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY.

These products pass through 4 phases where safety is evaluated in larger and larger clinical groups before the product is let out onto the public.


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## Hanni (25 October 2007)

Amoungst other reasons, I like LCT because the founder is involved and there is considerable passion in his lifetime mission here. 

As a parent with a child with Type 1, I have spent an enourmous amount of time in researching diabetes and potential therapies. I am not an expert and setting aside my emotional desire to see an improvement in the MDI (daily injection) regime and Blood Glucose monitoring, I beleive LCT represents one of the most plausible approaches to 'curing' T1D.

We must also consider there are over a million people walking around with pig heart valves today so I view some reactions to using pig tissues/cells as misinformed (providing proper clinical steps are undertaken).  

The Americans are now following LCT but I suggest they are some years behind still. See www.springpoint.org

Another company I like in this area is *Orsense *out of Israel - they have an interesting BG device that is non invasive coming to market - it just got a CE mark (not that that might mean much)  http://www.orsense.com/

As for stem cell research I can only view this as positive yet years away if at all. 

The trick I suspect with LCT is - efficacy. As a left field thought though - I just hope they don't get taken out by some greedy corporate that has a vested interest in 'burning' their research.  

discl. Hold LCT.


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## Out Too Soon (24 August 2009)

Apologies & condolences to fellow shareholders, since buying in about 3 weeks ago the sp has tanked terribly ~25%, why do I have this effect on companies?   & of cause I didn't bother w a stop loss -DOH! 
 Hopefully sp will turn soon (prob after I sell)


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## surf73 (21 September 2009)

Out too Soon

Did you sell????
LCT's been doing nicely for a few days now, (I bought at 18C in May)


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## RazzaDazzla (9 May 2010)

Story about LCT on Sunday Night on channel 7 tonight.

I've put them on my Radar. Interesting stuff.


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## Joules MM1 (14 July 2016)

acquired LCT yesterday at .105's

the money flows are strong daily/weekly
accumulation both standard and williams are lifting, volumes are lifting, consistantly more bid than offer in the que

edge: distinctive method for treatment of parkinsons exclusive to LCT

well run company with lots of industry support in NZ, listed on the asx

my reasons for buying as a i rarely buy stocks these days


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## Joules MM1 (24 August 2017)

Parkinsons study unblinded in 10-12 weeks
thus far previous trials have shown good results even with small sample group

previous study and into 130 weeks post-study UPDRS
(not as rig as the MDS-UPDRS method so proof req'd:


https://twitter.com/LCTGlobal
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20170823/pdf/43ln94qbd955h5.pdf
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/share-price-research/company/LCT

the otc ADR's continue to show good longterm money flows whereas
(suprise, not) local money backed off after initial prev study results


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## Joules MM1 (24 August 2017)

previous study and into 130 weeks post-study UPDRS
(not as rig as the MDS-UPDRS method so proof req'd:


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## Joules MM1 (24 August 2017)

some hype

looking around at the science for PD it is clear that the game is one big bag of guesses with a few players
in the stem cell and beta-cynuclein protein (epigenetic) scene have any semblance of success and the science for them is just as virgin, for the stem teams their problem is generally logistics of supply and storage and not enough study-group sample-sized for efficacy, the beta protein teams are stabbing around in the dark without any sizeable study group in the nearterm and  a third group purported to be close to a(n existing) solution have so many side-effects as to render the effort substandard risk with unknown benefits

the trials thus far of the porcine surgery has shown good efficacy, no retrovirus activity, no surgical side-effects, no adverse immune system response (the procedure does not require the immune system be switched off) ...regardless of the ongoing possibilities of other applications, for the growing global PD disease, this treatment has shown best results, the major question is how well the company can market/monetize the science/patents upon the next study disclosure in november

the speed of input/output  patient turnover for LCT's NTCELL with, thus far, proven positive effects, appears to outpace the oppositions science by several zero's

where some 'clinics' in south america have shown good results in some patients via stem cell treatments we do not have any access to all patients, rendering all good results to anecdotal value, 
only peer-reviewable placebo control group blind studies offer any real rigorous data 

Dr. Barry Snow, Oct 2016


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## Joules MM1 (21 September 2017)

both otc and asx issues broke out today on lifted volume, 
lifted positive money flows 21day and 13 week and multiple accum indicia

todays break-out is the fastest of all consolidation completions 
as each level speeds up with pending november data (unblinded study) due 

appears one or two players on the 100k rotation driving price and then sitting waiting to collect their pennies in the sell que, so for mine, still small pocket retail chasing, volume remains relatively low participation.....meh..early days

ASX:LCT OTC:LCVLY


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## Joules MM1 (14 October 2017)

fave team-score moment

"...demonstrate that NTCELL
has the potential to treat neurodegenerative disorders
other than Parkinson’s disease. It may also show
whether other encapsulated cell therapies developed
by LCT have the potential to promote cytoprotective
effects, which may indicate that the cells are generating
a cocktail of molecules that protect cellular functions
in the brain from degenerative processes that have
been associated with diseases such as Alzheimer’s."

annual report
http://www.edocumentview.com.au/lct...9cad26214435a6b26c/LCT Annual Report 2017.pdf
hat tip atomikrej


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## Joules MM1 (23 October 2017)

typical rotation sees .220's as a buy-in level to complete this interruption to current uptrend

13 week money flows remain strong both asx and otc bourse with typical jittery retail fluctuations


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## Joules MM1 (27 October 2017)

busy this afternoon thanks to the Barnaby Bid on xjo .....which was nice 

likely LCT likely hit .220's monday


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## Joules MM1 (30 October 2017)

.220's hit today, support comes in, prob last oppo to bid pre-halt


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## Joules MM1 (7 November 2017)

*LCT files pericyte protective agent provisional patent*
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20171107/pdf/43p0z0g7jxcdh8.pdf


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## Joules MM1 (7 November 2017)

generally good new supports the trend

both scrips remained above the crucial ratio levels and with pending release to draw a TH pressure remains on the sellers to reason their exit .......discretionary bid tends to dominate 

ASX:LCT





OTC:LVCLY


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## Joules MM1 (9 November 2017)

patent applied for just prior to todays TH bodes well for companies confidence that this trial will be more of the same positive results while adding a wider view on efficacy

about the patent:
"The invention in this provisional patent arises from .... how LCT’s
products can reverse human brain neurodegenerative processes associated with 
pericytes(and other brain cells), which help sustain the blood-brain barrier and 
other homeostatic and haemostatic functions in the brain."
"... two primary goals. The first was
to extend the pipeline for LCT’s lead product NTCELL®
by examining the effects of NTCELL on cell cultures
derived from human brains with
Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease. The second was
to identify neuroactive constituents of
NTCELL and their site of action."

monday 13th release date

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20171107/pdf/43p0z0g7jxcdh8.pdf


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## Joules MM1 (10 November 2017)

punched in the left tit this morning, is what it is, disappointing

having been kicked in the nadgers before (ok, a few times) sizing was right for the risk

the science itself is not yet finished based on this simple example:

note "you are here" at the bottom


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## Joules MM1 (21 December 2017)

"To release data on patients in selected
groups of that trial when all data are not available
may falsely affect the
outcome of those yet to reach the one year mark"

..and the share price

this report is not listed as market sensitive but it prob is to PD patients
esp the patient 1 look in the UPDRS 

https://research.commsec.com.au/Loa...yMzAtM0VGSVRVREsyTUQzNFVRQUxGUEFRVTFNVUsifQ==

"A second pipeline project
will be carried out in collaboration with the
Centre for Brain Research at The University of Auckland."

further applications are the hint with further melioration and/or halting of PD in any of the cohorts
the further out we go as we are a long way from knowing correct doses and each dose is based on extent of each patient affected at the time of implant


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## fiftyeight (21 December 2017)

Joules MM1 said:


> "To release data on patients in selected
> groups of that trial when all data are not available
> may falsely affect the
> outcome of those yet to reach the one year mark"
> ...




What they released data on a sample of their sample????
(Link is behind a subscription)


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## Joules MM1 (21 December 2017)

fiftyeight said:


> What they released data on a sample of their sample????
> (Link is behind a subscription)




the update is basically expanding with time as it should

what some of us concluded the first time around that the lower dosage having an immediate (relative) benefit would go onto improve the further out we go
and the heaviest dose i proposed was going to cause inflammatory response, either way, regardless of cause and effect the result is inline with initial responses so remain very positive and tell me we need much larger cohort and variety of implants....afterall, each patient comes to the gig with diff extents of damage

if we got another 26 weeks out and the second patient (double dose) showed similar improvement then that would favour all the other sciences listed for major disease studies

the BOD and Dr. Snow have always been extremely conservative, dedicated to the science, which is my fave cup o tea ...
oops, i'm ranting


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## fiftyeight (21 December 2017)

Joules MM1 said:


> oops, i'm ranting




Cheers for that, and keep on ranting!!!


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## Joules MM1 (25 December 2017)

still scratching my head on how the latest release is not considered price sensitive

for the phase I trial it would be good to see data for all 4 patients to see any correlative improvement in the UPDRS past 160 thru 200 weeks to see if patient 4 improved

there is such a wide chasm between the basis of data, lack of improvement and the extent _of_improvement, we could afterall be seeing patient 4 had a severe reaction to PD which coincided with the implant, meaning, without the implant we don't know if that patient was not worse for wear immediately after the implant regardless of whether the implant took place or not and we don't know if the 1st patient did not also go thru the Hawthorn* effect

as more conversations take place, force us to recognise that this whole series of implants are far from offering single target answers while offering more questions on how little is complete
we appear to keep coming back to the same suggestion: bigger trial

if a pay-out comes from Diabecell then we'll have the (part?) funding

both phase I and II offered just enough to stop the ref from the whistle

if we dont know the absolute trigger of PD and we dont know about the rate or curve of attrition, with or without the patients own input on their own state of being, then, we cannot say we know how incremental or how big the strides are for attrition or recovery ...it's a pretty big void

patient 1 in phase I and 80 dbl implant patients tell us there is wide enough positive data (versus almost no negative data) to say, all things being equal, 2018 outlook is remarkably improved on how 2017 was going to end

*if youre going to have dental surgery and the dentist improves your dental health it's not the dentists work its the patients continuous hygiene leading upto and after the dentistry that makes and keeps the improvement...in this instance if you have two patients that diverge such as 1 and 4 it is fair to speculate that 4 may have done all the wrong things for their own well-being whereas patient 1 may have been disciplined to being pro-active in all things PD assistive and be conducive to neuron stimulation ...so many variables


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## Joules MM1 (25 January 2018)

cash injection on sale to will see price spike yet not expecting a runaway based on that release
makes a basis for positive news in feb thru may on extended trial results

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20180125/pdf/43r1hb05mf241d.pdf

quick study for customer base for Diabecell
43mm in Argentina, NZ 4.7mm, Aus 24mm population

not small

out of 88 countries Aus is 7th, NZ 12th highest per head per capita, Argentina 53rd

think of the 3 regions as exclusive and protected market base

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_u...-by-incidence-of-type-1-diabetes-ages-0-to-14


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## Joules MM1 (11 April 2018)

looking to become a medical logistics (delivery) company?
good output but price upswing is likely quite a few quarters away

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20180411/pdf/43t3q7lbx6dzng.pdf


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## fiftyeight (9 May 2018)

Joules MM1 said:


> all things being equal, 2018 outlook is remarkably improved on how 2017 was going to end




It is May, big month for results. Hopefully for all involved they are positive


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## Joules MM1 (9 May 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> It is May, big month for results. Hopefully for all involved they are positive




theyre a good cash cow at present, maybe a rto if the right company came along, the board is fairly big on ethics and morals.... and if any signif improvement in the NTcell study participants would cause a rerate ....am a fan of the bio-tech for other applications, as a logistics company many avenues


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## greggles (15 May 2018)

Some good news this morning for LCT has sent their share price north on solid volume. It's currently up 24%.


> 15 May 2018 – Sydney, Australia & Auckland, New Zealand – LCT has the data from the one year follow up of the 18 patients in the Phase IIb study of NTCELL® for Parkinson's disease. The Data Safety Monitoring Board has advised that there are no safety issues arising from the data.
> 
> The one year efficacy data shows a statistically significant improvement change in the Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale (UPDRS Part III in the off state) in the patients who received 40 or 80 NTCELL capsules implantation to the putamen on both sides of the brain as compared to the placebo group that received sham surgery.
> 
> ...


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## Joules MM1 (15 May 2018)

the results get wider,  confirm the first release
price is prob several quarters from drawing in enough liquidity to drive an upwards trend

http://www.lctglobal.com/upload/news/2018/180515 LCT NTCELL and Parkinsons trial update.pdf


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## greggles (2 November 2018)

LCT surging today on good news concerning its Phase IIb study of NTCELL for Parkinson's disease.


> Initial analysis of the 18 month data shows a statistically significant improvement (p = <0.05) in the UPDRS in the patients who received 80 NTCELL capsules implantation to the putamen on both sides of the brain as compared to the placebo group that received sham surgery. No benefit was observed when 120 NTCELL capsules were implanted, there being evidence of inflammation which may have compromised efficacy in this group.




LCT is currently up 33.33% to 6.8c and is looking like a breakout. It has breached the 6c level before on 19 October but on that day it closed at 5.9c. Today it is looking stronger and will probably close higher.


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## barney (2 November 2018)

greggles said:


> LCT surging today on good news concerning its Phase IIb study of NTCELL for Parkinson's disease.




Just had a look at these  …….. The science is pretty out there  Description below …

_NTCELL is an alginate coated capsule containing clusters of neonatal porcine choroid plexus cells that are *sourced from a unique herd of designated pathogen-free pigs *bred from stock originally discovered in the remote sub-Antarctic Auckland Islands._

The 12 months of recent data suggests some benefit to patients but getting the dose right will take a bit more time it sounds.


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## Joules MM1 (2 January 2019)

hat tip @Assen who emailed to find LCT releasing data on the 7th .....a decent release is likely to be precursor for application for a larger study now efficacy is clearly proven with 80 implants just ahead of the 40 implants in the ph2b study .....i have not seen a similar study by a company where the updrs or updrs-ms scores improved over this or shorter time frame (with or without drug to market)



"*Podcast: Parkinson's Will Double by 2040: Are We Ready*?"
https://www.michaeljfox.org/foundat...st-parkinson-will-double-by-2040-are-we-ready

thought: the smoking/nicotine has already been discounted, an erroneous correlative oft-repeated yet not studied correctly, as in: patients with skin cancer are found to have typically low levels of protective vitD3, which does not discount the reverse correlation that skin cancer causes low levels of vitD3 and the same goes with the nicotine prevents less PD onset theory, rather, the hypothesis that the function governing nicotine addiction is  cocomittant to a protective function that already exists with an upregulation and that people who do not have a nicotine addiction, or whom recover easily of their nicotine addiction, have a downregulation that is part of the onset of PD as a summation of those functions, not withstanding the obvious thought that smokers die younger thus taking valid data with them....

thought: the coffee idea can also be discounted on a long-term basis, even tho i agree with the gut/brain connect in so much as coffee beans can lower inflammation markers, what is also true is that coffee causes a contraction (at worse) and lack of dilation (at best) in the vascular, which to me implies, a restriction of oxygen or nitric oxide availability as a natural course of total function, which is main reason that most people who quit coffee after a prolonged period get headaches as the blood vessels expand, so short term there are, as pointed out in the podcast, some minor benefits but in the longer run there are outlier conditions waiting to trigger


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## Joules MM1 (16 January 2019)

the 7th came n went, nuthin!
we still have that update to come, altho not crucial, it would tick all the right regulatory boxes in excess of what the company thinks the regulatory authority want to see*

as reflected in the auction

*"The company is currently analysing the most recent trial data to determine
the point at which we will approach the New Zealand regulators for their view on
the likelihood of LCT being able to make NTCELL commercially available to people with Parkinson’s disease."
http://www.lctglobal.com/upload/news/2018/181115 LCT 2018 AGM Chairmans Address.pdf


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## Joules MM1 (17 January 2019)

update due monday 21st 
thanks @Assen

i guess the only significant annoc is in May this year....long way away but it'll be significant enough to determin company outlook for a couple of years:

*Future development path*
In May 2019 the 24 month efficacy data for all three dose groups will be available. At each data milestone we review the findings with our NTCELL medical advisory board to determine the next appropriate steps.*

*http://www.lctglobal.com/ntcell/ntcell/future-development


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## fiftyeight (19 January 2019)

I have been watching LCT since joules mentioned it a while back. Both as a way to learn about medical trials and because I have a family history. Recently a close family member has been diagnosed. 

Probably should of just donated the money to a charity, but instead I bought a couple of LCT shares, about $1000 

Good example of how emotion that gets tied up with biotech, not a comment on LCT specifically, but seems like an industry in a prime position to take advantage of people


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## Joules MM1 (19 January 2019)

fiftyeight said:


> I have been watching LCT since joules mentioned it a while back. Both as a way to learn about medical trials and because I have a family history. Recently a close family member has been diagnosed.
> 
> Probably should of just donated the money to a charity, but instead I bought a couple of LCT shares, about $1000
> 
> Good example of how emotion that gets tied up with biotech, not a comment on LCT specifically, but seems like an industry in a prime position to take advantage of people




bio's are a black hole and investors are the event horizon

it's true that if there's a vested emotive reason to want the biotech to do well it's the opposite reason to buy in, always a punt either way.....LCT especially is not a business driven company, not yet anyways, owning the stock is a longterm EHR lottery ticket (albeit slightly higher odds!)

i had started an education thread over at sharecafe.com but they limited jpeg's so i gave it away, but, take a look, come interesting videos and science there....there's a lot more being accomplished in the PD space than most are aware both palliative and preventative and as one LCT board member says 'if you prevent the disease from getting worse  extending the lifespan of the patient you have effectively found a cure'

in my late 50's i am more and more aware or people around me who have pre-parkinsons (parkinsonism) and pre-diabetese yet when i get into a discussion with them they are fatalistic without realising how much they get do for themselves to ameliorate (diabetese is proven simple to reverse now)

as we don't know direct causality we can know that there is clear evidence of paths to PD such as inflammation via dietary inputs, over-shunting of heme iron* across the blood brain barrier (needed for dopermagenic synthesis but maybe too much of a good thing) limiting inflammatory inputs and following a whole-food-plant-based diet may prove to be a pro-active benefit for most PD carriers, at least to have best optimal lifestyle

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812924/


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## Joules MM1 (19 January 2019)

ROS

what is reactive oxidative stress ?

how can we prevent further deterioration of neural pathways and help in neuro-genesis

firstly it should be noted that only recently has science uncovered the relationship between dietary inputs as oxidative stress as an absolute, in other words, there is clear causality, a clear correlation both in triggering genetic activity and epigenetic activity, while we cannot fully control genetic triggering all the time we can have control over probability or triggering genetic switching, by restricting the markers that give genetic activation

it would be fair to say that not all genetically pre-disposed to PD actually trigger yet we do not know how to prove  the case either way, yet, it is fair to assume that by restricting outliers and most often correlated inputs that we ourselves can control may give an edge on long-term outcomes, the question then is, can we control shorter term outcomes given diagnosis of PD? Can we adjust to or re-orient ourselves to what the body will allow given the decisions we do have control over regarding our dietary inputs?

if you have a broken arm do you keep playing cricket or wait for the mend to resume play?

ROS is borne for many thru diet
for example foods such as parmesan cheeses have oxydised cholesterol, the worse kind of cholesterol, even tho we now know cholesterol plays an important role as part of the whole anti-nitric oxide
anti-vascular dilation, the increase of free radicals without the contra input (via minerals/vitamins and trace elements) all upregulate stress the body would normally handle, this upregulation is a global phenom

exercise plays a big role, it appears that mitochondria requires constant work to be 'fully fit'

we may find out that the idea of PD being age-related is less to do with calendar age than it is to do with repetitive injury age, in other words, damage repeated over and over thru time is not a biologic input of nature, the opposite, antithetic by habit albeit uneducated (and probably) this lack of basic education on what we can control is the key to at least part control and getting an optimal outcome as best we can

there's a plethora of new sciences in containing PD affects in progress, if we perceive PD as a process rather than a disease, it's clear that we have more and more sciences uncovering how to restrict that process......and it is clear to me that we can have a simple and constant impact directly ourselves by begin fully self-informed on what we do on an epigenetic level, much work, sure, yet, the door is wide open......

so when i ask what is ROS, it is merely a prompt to research, as it is a single input, one of many, a sense of control that something can be done......again, the door is wide open


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## Joules MM1 (21 January 2019)

4 year implant annoc

easy to see the case for 80 v 40implant when LCT applies to reg body
....the outcomes probably way better than the 40 taken over the same period, which we dont need to wait for based on the phaseiib study

patient 1 is likely an ambassador with the result (so far)

it can be inferred this is a random outcome, sure, but the updrs also displays more time in + territory for all patients and (again) keeping in mind this was the 40implants


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## Joules MM1 (30 April 2019)

added to my long-winded holdings today, some bids expecting the safety board to approve next major study for PD to get the green light

the 80mg inplant should have enough data to get the nod

essentially this is the do-or-die period for the next few years regardless other pipeline ideas


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## Joules MM1 (3 June 2019)

Joules MM1 said:


> ...expecting the safety board to approve next major study for PD to get the green light
> 
> the 80mg inplant should have enough data to get the nod
> 
> essentially this is the do-or-die period for the next few years regardless other pipeline ideas




not much has changed

medsafe annoc likely to coincide with international bio convention this week


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## Joules MM1 (24 July 2019)

significant bump in todays sp ....unfortunately the word "significant" was missing from last nights release, replaced with "relevant" and that's the reason the release was not marked as market sensitive

once the ripple runs out of steam in the auction and reality sets in there'll likely be a lull while news is awaited for a bigger trial, enough data suggests a large user-pays trial is required as the cap cost is too high for the company without dilution


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## Joules MM1 (9 June 2021)

and hello! wots this all about ?

nuthing for literally years then suddenly boom, leaky boat ?

Volume9,015,471

 Last Price (AUD) $0.015 
Today's ChangeUp $0.002  (15.38%)


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## Joules MM1 (23 June 2021)

Bid / Size $0.015 / 1,344,583
Offer / Size $0.016 / 591,690
Volume13,844,560
23% today
someone wants it obviously, expect a please explain from granny


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