# For the under 30s - how I got my house



## Riesling (16 March 2007)

I posted this on a thread about baby boomers, but then I thought it might be of interest to some Gen Ys and younger Xs that may not read the thread.

I bought/built a house in late 2002/early 2003, and have paid it off.  This is how I did it.  As prices have gone up a bit where I am (SE Qld) since then, it might take you another year (or you could just have a small mortgage).

Pretty much anyone with an education/trade could do this.  You can't be too risk averse.

I'm 33, classic X-er, spent all my money in my early 20s and racked up the credit card debts.   I discovered early on that I am a terrible saver, but am quite good at paying off debt when required.

I went to London, got a job, and lived pretty cheap (plenty of people live cheaper) I worked as an accountant, boring as hell but good money.   

I discovered early on that I am a terrible saver, but am quite good at paying off debt when required.  So instead of trying to save a deposit (which required self-discipline), I got some credit cards (so easy to do in the UK) and cash advanced GBP30k. (Yes it took a while!) Then I switched to new cards every 6 months and kept balance transferring to new 0% intro deals so I didn't have to pay interest.

With that A$75k I bought a block of land on the NSW far north coast, not on the beach, a not particularly fashionable area.  This is what I could afford.  I was earning GPB52k/year so I paid off the land in just over 12 months (here doing the same job I would earn about A$70k so that gives you some idea of the better money that can be made in London in some (not all) professions). 

After the first year (A$75k paid, land owned), I did the same cash advance thing again. So I had A$75k in cash to start building a house, and I got an Australian mortgage for $75k. My dad did the owner-building thing and we used every mate and mate's mate and cost cutting exercise we could to build a 2 story brick 4 bed 2 bath house for about $145k. 

I also bought a tiny flat in London on a 100% UK mortgage, renovated from 6pm to 1am every day for 4 weeks, and sold it for about A$60k profit.  I found the buying/selling costs in the UK to be lower than here so doing a turnaround on a cheap property easier to do than here.

I paid off the UK credit cards in the second year, then moved back to Oz in 2005. I didn't like being an accountant (being an X-er - you know we don't like to stick to anything LOL!) so I borrowed A$100k against the house and started a bar - it wasn't rocket science, anyone could do it, but it was long hours and hard work. I sold it after a year for $300k.

So now I have paid off the house and have $100k. (Mind you, I still rent myself as it's cheaper than owning in my chosen suburb LOL!)

I don't relate the above to show how amazingly sensational I am, far from it, I am fairly ordinary (albiet having a uni education).

I relate it to show how easy it is to do.  Being a an 'in demand' profession in the UK helps, but there are lots of them - accounting, IT, plumber (pretty much any trade).  I know a lot of people working in finance/accounting/business jobs who don't have those quals - there are plenty of jobs in not so nice areas that pay well which the more qualified won't do - in fact my first job was one of these.   Science types might struggle same as they do here.

Hope this is useful to someone who thinks a property is out of their reach - it's not.

Riesling


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## Deadcat (16 March 2007)

Excellent strategy!  I too am gen x and have my own house which is worth 3 x the mortgage.  My sister is gen y and is building a house.  Most of her friends own houses or units and all nearly all the people I know that are considered gen x have a house or townhouse.  My parents are boomers and have had to work alot harder than me and my sister to get to the comfortable position they are now in.  The people who are complaining about greedy boomers stealing their future properties are in the minority, but as it goes, the minority always squawk the loudest, the rest of us just get on with it!


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## The Mint Man (16 March 2007)

Riesling, much work for doctors over there? my missus is going to become one and we want to go over there at some stage as shes got extended family there.

deadcat, I second what you said.

cheers


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## numbercruncher (16 March 2007)

The Mint Man said:
			
		

> Riesling, much work for doctors over there? my missus is going to become one and we want to go over there at some stage as shes got extended family there.
> 
> deadcat, I second what you said.
> 
> cheers




Theres work for everyone in London,  I imagine Doctors there would rake in big money but remember London is expensive, I lived there a decade ago and we rented a 2 bedroom apartment in a very ordinary suburb and that cost the equivalent of $3k a month.

Aussies and Kiwis generally had rentals where stacks of them lived in the same place to keep the costs down.

I actually knew a guy that just moved into some rundown mansion and because of Squatters rights laws over there just stayed there with a bunch of other people free !! They couldnt get booted out by law and the room he stayed in was larger than my whole apartment lol.

Anyway i dont know what its like now for London rent i assume its alot worse than before, but if you dont mind sharing with a bunch of people youll do ok!


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## Smurf1976 (16 March 2007)

Agreed that it is quite possible to buy property.

But it always amazes me that we can discuss stock XYZ, say it's trading at a highly overvalued level based on earnings and likely to fall in price and nobody gets particularly emotional about it. 

But point out that real estate is trading at very valuation levels relative to earnings or affordability and we get all this discussion about generations, how you CAN afford a house and so on. Few seem able to actually discuss the state of the RE market itself. 

Just look at all the threads we've had on ASF - they all end up focusing on things other than the RE market itself. And yet the same people posting on those threads have no problem objectively assessing the future price direction of a stock whether that be up or down.

Witness the near panic when the ASX takes a dip. And yet the recent falls in the ASX are trivial compared to the far larger % falls in Sydney house prices. But few are even willing to acknowledge that house prices actually could fall. "It always goes up in the long term" we hear. But so does the ASX. And yet the reaction to falls in one is totally different to falls in the other.


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## REA (16 March 2007)

Congratulations on a very positive forum.  

My two children both bought homes in NSW before 30 and on 1 wage.  To do that they worked every weekend (except A/L) for about 12 years. I know that is hard to do when you are young especially with the hangovers, it is just something that you have to make yourself do. The first house is the hardest.


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## nizar (16 March 2007)

What are the age brackets for GenX and GenY?

And Riesling - well done, you did well, you were willing to work hard when young and sacrifice to live more comfortable later on. I very much plan on doing the same.


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## Deadcat (16 March 2007)

Smurf, I don't really understand where you are coming from.  I don't feel emotional over my property, it is a roof over my head and I prefer to pay my own mortgage instead of renting and paying off someone else's mortgage.  I did not start out buying the house I wanted.  I bought an old rundown house in an area that was cheaper that was  spending on infrastructure and development.  After spending a few years in my crappy house and gradually renovating it, I was able to sell it at a profit and move on to a bit better home in a better area.  The market is flat at the moment and will probably drop further which is fine by me, I just want somewhere to live.  I certainly don't have the intention to trade real estate the same way I trade shares.


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## noirua (16 March 2007)

Beg, borrow and buy a house as now is the time to do so. If you can afford a $600,000+ house go for it. Sell everything you have and go ahead and do it. " He who hesitates is lost" - now is the time, believe you me.


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## vishalt (16 March 2007)

nicely done


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## Flying Fish (16 March 2007)

great thread


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## Riesling (16 March 2007)

Nizar - thanks, but I don't feel like I've sacrificed anything.  I like travelling, eating and drinking, and I spend (and always have) a lot of cash doing those things, especially while I was in London.   Aside from the renovating, I've never done two jobs.   I worked long hours when I owned the bar, but it wasn't stressful work.

The things I don't spend money on (and never have) are cars and media stuff (plasmas, Xboxes, DVDs etc), and posh home stuff - reason being I like going out a lot so am not home much, and I always drink so I never drive!     I absolutely could never fathom spending $30-$60k on a new car.  But that's just personal preference and not to knock those who do.

R


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## Riesling (16 March 2007)

Also Nizar (sorry for the double post)

Wikipedia says Gen X were born between 1963 and 1978.  So now aged 29 to 44.

Gen Y are 1979 to 1995, so aged 12 to 28.

Search on wikipedia for 'generations book' for a historical list and theory on generations - quite interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_(book)


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## darian (16 March 2007)

I'm in the Uk right now, unless you are on a decent wage like Reisling, you will struggle. Rents are unbelivably high, me and my boyfriend are sharing a room and its costing us £500 a month in an ordinary suburb sharing with 4 other people. I agree there jobs everywhere here but unless you are a professional, its not worth staying here for the long term.


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## wayneL (16 March 2007)

darian said:
			
		

> I'm in the Uk right now, unless you are on a decent wage like Reisling, you will struggle. Rents are unbelivably high, me and my boyfriend are sharing a room and its costing us £500 a month in an ordinary suburb sharing with 4 other people. I agree there jobs everywhere here but unless you are a professional, its not worth staying here for the long term.




5oo for a room? which suburb?


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## wayneL (16 March 2007)

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/search.r..._dosearch=1&initial_search_time=1174037499324


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## darian (16 March 2007)

Forgot to mention Im in the Y generation, currently travelling all over the place, shopping and eating out but I still have a decent chunk of savings in my bank account that will allow me to pay for the deposit for 2 houses. It all comes down to being responsible with your spending and learning how to save at an early age. People that winge are those in denial and doesn't have the courage to live up to a change. Life is not meant to be easy, I wasn't born rich but I'm still what I am today. Life is what you make of it, so start doing something about it!!!


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## darian (16 March 2007)

Northampton, its not the best place either!


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## wayneL (16 March 2007)

darian said:
			
		

> Northampton, its not the best place either!



You can get a whole flat for that according to Rightmove ads


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## darian (16 March 2007)

But all bills included, and fully furnished.


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## numbercruncher (16 March 2007)

darian said:
			
		

> Forgot to mention Im in the Y generation, currently travelling all over the place, shopping and eating out but I still have a decent chunk of savings in my bank account that will allow me to pay for the deposit for 2 houses. It all comes down to being responsible with your spending and learning how to save at an early age. People that winge are those in denial and doesn't have the courage to live up to a change. Life is not meant to be easy, I wasn't born rich but I'm still what I am today. Life is what you make of it, so start doing something about it!!!




Its easy to be single a relatively well off, its a different ball game for people with familys etc, 110k required income for a family to own a house in Melbourne and worse in other states, only ten years ago that income only needed to be 43k. An average family in Melborne would be paying 400 rent, 300 Food/Sundries, + Petrol, School fees, Insurance etc etc etc, A grand after Tax needed before they can hope to save a bean, add another 300+ if they have a mortgage.

Yet people just say dont be lazy get a 2nd job get a 3rd job, at what cost? Kids not seeing their parents, being raised by childcare centres and after school care, drop em off at 6 months old collect them at 18 years. Yet people do this, work seven days virtually never see their kids and carry on like its normal!! Madness!

Australias middle class in getting poorer and the rich are getting richer, a few more generations like this will see us run the risk of being third world where 90pc of wealth is in 10pc of the hands.

I find the amount of people who say well its their fault for not financially planning enough, did you forsee this realestate boom and accompanying inflation thats doubled prices in like 5 years? I sure didnt when I bought a house on the gold coast in 2002 and then sold it for 100pc profit in 2004, and if we did know this was going to happen we would all be multi millionaires wouldnt we?

I fail to see how people dont understand the housing system is failing young familys and close to crisis point in major cities.


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## krisbarry (16 March 2007)

Riesling said:
			
		

> I bought/built a house in late 2002/early 2003, and have paid it off.  This is how I did it.  As prices have gone up a bit where I am (SE Qld) since then, it might take you another year (or you could just have a small mortgage).




All well and good in a booming market, but doubt you could pull this same trick again now!

Ask the baby boomers if the banks would lend them the money to buy their own houses now...the bank would tell them to get stuffed.

My mum bought a house in 1999 for $150,000 same house now 8 years on is worth over $400,000.  She wouldn't even qualify for a loan of that size.

Ya get my drift!


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## Julia (16 March 2007)

Really interesting thread which shows those whose focus is on what *can*  be done, and those whose focus is on what *cannot*  be done.

Sincere congratulations to those of you who have done so well at an apparently young age - your energy and positive attitude are a great example.

Julia


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## chops_a_must (16 March 2007)

Riesling said:
			
		

> I bought/built a house in late 2002/early 2003, and have paid it off.  This is how I did it.  As prices have gone up a bit where I am (SE Qld) since then, it might take you another year (or you could just have a small mortgage).
> 
> Pretty much anyone with an education/trade could do this.  You can't be too risk averse.
> 
> ...



Or... you could have saved all this effort and done what my girlfriend's best friend did today, i.e. get her mum to buy her an apartment.

WTF!?! Lol!


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## numbercruncher (16 March 2007)

Julia said:
			
		

> Really interesting thread which shows those whose focus is on what *can*  be done, and those whose focus is on what *cannot*  be done.
> 
> Sincere congratulations to those of you who have done so well at an apparently young age - your energy and positive attitude are a great example.
> 
> Julia




So simplistic isnt Julia,

Its all about those who focus on the can and those who cannot?

These Guys here bought before the boom and the homes have probably trebled and the other cliams to have enough for a "deposit" on two homes, the next generation has no chance of this happening in the next 10 years, there buying into a scam, there is no way that 500k homes are going to become 1.5m homes like you guys have enjoyed in the next 5/10 yrs. They will be lucky to even grow enough over costs and Inflation.

Its so easy to sit on the fence and reckon everything is alright just cause its alright with you and those around you, its seriously a nightmare for some people out there, it seems you people just dont understand, a home mortgage is 110k PA min in Melbourne, worse elsewhere.

Forget these "amazing" stories that originated before the boom, they are common, any bum could of bought a house on a AVERAGE wage 5/10 yrs ago.


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## Stan 101 (17 March 2007)

Interesting post, Riesling. Without spoiling the party, can I just mention that many credit cards will now not let you roll over cash advances and give you an interest free honeymoon. I've spoken to a few people who thought they would try that trick and got burnt when they were paying the full rate on cash advances from day one.

Numbercruncher, sometimes things aren't fair. I don't have children, but I imagine that if I was sweating to live and keep afloat in Melbourne I'd move.
I don't know the real estate market down there, but there are still absolute bargins around. Just purchased a 2 bed and sleepout tin and timber post war place for $140k rented at $210 per week. Walking distance to a seemingly nice school and the the major shopping centre in a region city in SEQld.
That was an exceptional buy, but the point is, there are places to move to.

What is the obsession with the coast in Australia? Personally I like to be near it as I have a passion for SCUBA. If it wasn't for that and I had children, I'd move further inland and find a lovely community to bring up my kids in a warm community atmosphere. They'd have bush and other outdoors to play in and get up to the harmless mischief children should. But now I'm preaching.

Yes, the cities are expensive, now. It will even out in time and then one day there will be another boom. There will be another industry other than mining that will take hold of people's sense of greed/prosperity/whatever and the cycle will start again. If the cities are too expensive to allow you the life you would like to lead, I'd suggest you move to a more affordable location.


Cheers,


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## nomore4s (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> So simplistic isnt Julia,
> 
> Its all about those who focus on the can and those who cannot ?
> 
> ...




Well thats just bad luck numbercruncher, life's just not fair sometimes. The next generation will just have to wait 10 years or so, big deal. If they spend that time saving and preparing they will be in front when the next boom/cycle happens. Home ownership isn't the be all and end of of life. I just don't get the attitude of some of the posters, why do they think that it's thier god given right to have everything they want when they want it?
It's all a choice if you're not happy do something about it, move cities, change careers, save hard, take time to learn how to invest/trade better, increase your earning power. Give yourself whatever you need/do what you have to do too open doors and create oppourtunities for yourself. And if you don't want to do the hard work and make the sacrifices required, well that's your choice.


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## numbercruncher (17 March 2007)

Good post Stan 101,

I actually dont live in Melbourne, I recently relocated from QLD to Rural Victoria. Im assuming the property you purchased was somewhere between Gympie and Maryborough? Your probably getting a better return on your investment than any recently purchased investment property in the country, but in perspective you would get the same return from the 140k sitting in a bank account.

What happens when every family that earns less than 100k pa leaves major citys? When all the lower paid workers go, Secretarys, Cleaners, Cab Drivers, Mechanics, council workers etc etc etc and go to regional and rural Australia, It would be a nightmare, in the long term Wages in Citys need to rise dramatically or Home prices need to drop dramatically IMHO.


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## Mousie (17 March 2007)

Dare anyone think, just maybe, that...

House ownership is overrated?

How do you make your investment decisions? Based on what gives you bang for your buck, right?

If you can get better returns on stocks, why buy a house and have council rates, land taxes, independent valuation fees, legal fees, stamp duty (probably not if you build your own), body corp fees if you get an apartment/unit, financing fees and interest on a loan if you get one, and all these before mentioning putting up with inefficient tradies if the s**t hits the fan? Oh yes, I nearly missed out the part where you actually buy the house: dealing with less than honest real estate agents!

Any other negatives I missed out on?

Those above alone are enough to drive me crazy!

Talk about having a sense of financial and emotional security eh? 

I'd definitely wait till I can _comfortably_ plonk 100% cash down for my house and still have huge amount of leftovers to invest. And it had better be a steal; the prices in Australia don't make financial sense anymore, not from a forex perspective anyway...

Look, I don't like having a landlord/landlord's agent looking over my shoulder every now and again, I value my privacy as much as the neighbour next door. But that's a small price to pay for having to deal with such a huge disruption to my bank balance and especially, my normal way of living when I wanna buy a house. There're just so many middlemen out to get a piece of you when you just want a bloody place to call your own. 

You pay so much, yet you just get a whole lot of a different type of hassle; that's the way I see it.

I'm half ranting and, hopefully, half making sense here...bottom line is I just don't like what I'm seeing in the property sector. If I'm gonna buy a property it'd be to live in; I most likely won't involve myself on the investment side of it, if ever. The returns for the work put in just don't match up.


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## darian (17 March 2007)

I totally agree with nomore4. It was never easy for anyone. You think it was easy for me save my money?? NO, i don't think so. Its through hard work and dedication and learning about the share market at a young age. Ive done this because I don't want to be left out of the next property boom like my parents did. Back in 1986, a 3 bedroom house only cost $80,000 in the city, if my parents were more investment savvy and bought a few of these we'd be millionaires by now. But in those days they thought it was too expensive. If people always have the perception that houses are overpriced, they will never get anywhere. Who knows when the next boom will be?? Property will never be too expensive!! 
If you're worry about your kids not being able to afford a home, think twice. They are in a country that provides quality education and excellent living conditions, they will never starve to death if they work hard and earn a uni degree!


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## crash82au (17 March 2007)

I think if a war breaks out real estate might become more affordable.  Which country do we not like?


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## Lucky (17 March 2007)

crash82au said:
			
		

> I think if a war breaks out real estate might become more affordable.  Which country do we not like?




Tasmania


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## numbercruncher (17 March 2007)

crash82au said:
			
		

> I think if a war breaks out real estate might become more affordable.  Which country do we not like?




LOL yes if our yankee cousins decide its time to smoke Iran, Oil will shoot over $100 and the chain reaction will probably make for a sticky situation!


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## macca (17 March 2007)

I do think that a lot of people lose sight of the fact that just because you want to buy something NOW, doesn't mean that NOW is the best time to buy it.

We are on a stock forum full of ups and downs and waves etc etc, ALL investments do the same thing. 

When real estate got too dear in the major population centres, the stock market started to climb, coincidence ? probably not   

If it costs a lot more to buy than rent, then rent and invest in something else.

It is all about PATIENCE, something that young people of every generation are usually short of


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## Stan 101 (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> but in perspective you would get the same return from the 140k sitting in a bank account.




Number, not quite. Or not anywhere near quite, actually.

With cash in bank, one does not get the 50% discount on CGT if held for more than 12 months like one does with shares and property.

Property depreciates and one can claim tax relief to this end. Bless their cotton socks.

The loan is deductable and with a small deposit, that house purchased 1 month ago is positively geared and is paying itself off. (exclude unforseen maintenance.)
Addons like new fence and bathroom cost little outlay but allow me more equity after a revalue by a bank.

Big difference to money in the bank.


Enjoy the move though. 


Cheers,


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## Julia (17 March 2007)

On the suggestion of moving to where prices are more affordable, I'm just now looking at my local real estate paper and, just as an example - there are plenty like this -  is the following:

Near new 3 bedroom plus study
2 Living Areas
Ensuite to main bedroom
Rendered Brick
Double Garage
Fenced 853 sqm allotment

$298,000.

It's in a beachside suburb of Hervey Bay, a fast growing, beautiful town on the Qld coast, about 2 and a half hours north of Brisbane, population a bit over 50,000.

Julia


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## Kauri (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> Good post Stan 101,
> 
> I, but in perspective you would get the same return from the 140k sitting in a bank account.




A longer term look at returns..


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## stockpanther (17 March 2007)

Julia said:
			
		

> On the suggestion of moving to where prices are more affordable, I'm just now looking at my local real estate paper and, just as an example - there are plenty like this -  is the following:
> 
> Near new 3 bedroom plus study
> 2 Living Areas
> ...




Hervey Bay is pretty much the retirement capital of Qld.


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## numbercruncher (17 March 2007)

Julia said:
			
		

> On the suggestion of moving to where prices are more affordable, I'm just now looking at my local real estate paper and, just as an example - there are plenty like this -  is the following:
> 
> Near new 3 bedroom plus study
> 2 Living Areas
> ...




Funnily enough Julia I built and sold a house in Craignish last year, Hervey Bay is great (relative) value and a beautiful place but it also has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

So even in Hervey Bay I dont see how people do it comfortably, 300k mortgage = 500p/w before anything else! And Hervey Bay wages that a whole income.

That being said i would recommend to anyone to live there, I may even move back some day!


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## CanOz (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> Funnily enough Julia I built and sold a house in Craignish last year, Hervey Bay is great (relative) value and a beautiful place but it also has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.
> 
> So even in Hervey Bay I dont see how people do it comfortably, 300k mortgage = 500p/w before anything else! And Hervey Bay wages that a whole income.
> 
> That being said i would recommend to anyone to live there, I may even move back some day!




Wouldn't it be a great place to live and trade full time!  

Now, back to saving and trading part time.  

Cheers,


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## rockingham178 (17 March 2007)

Julia said:
			
		

> On the suggestion of moving to where prices are more affordable, I'm just now looking at my local real estate paper and, just as an example - there are plenty like this -  is the following:
> 
> Near new 3 bedroom plus study
> 2 Living Areas
> ...




Hi Julia
What is it with Hervey Bay.....sooooooo cheap. Just looking at a 5acre one on the web with coastal views on a hill for $650k. That is ridiculously cheap for acreage on the caost like that and the houses in the burbs but still coastal for around $220k! This place is a gold mine except for one thing....a lot of places for sale. Why the sell off in seemingly such a good location on the coast? No employment possibly? I need to research this place for sure...


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## numbercruncher (17 March 2007)

rockingham178 said:
			
		

> Hi Julia
> What is it with Hervey Bay.....sooooooo cheap. Just looking at a 5acre one on the web with coastal views on a hill for $650k. That is ridiculously cheap for acreage on the caost like that and the houses in the burbs but still coastal for around $220k! This place is a gold mine except for one thing....a lot of places for sale. Why the sell off in seemingly such a good location on the coast? No employment possibly? I need to research this place for sure...




Yes I believe second highest unemployment rate in the Country (alot by choice), Low Wages, Seasonal work (Picking, Whale Season), No Industry, and yes alot of Realestate for sale. I imagine alot will sell in coming years as boomers discover it and retire there.


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## rockingham178 (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> Yes i beleive second highest unemployment rate in the Country (alot by choice), Low Wages, Seasonal work ( Picking, Whale Season), No Industry, and yes alot of Realestate forsale, I imagine alot will sell in coming years as boomers discover it and retire there.




Yes I agree....PPL like me   

This is just unbelievably cheap I could sell 3 properties and buy a street in Hervey Bay on the coast!....bye...I'm think I need to go on a 'holiday'..... to 'look at the scenery'.....I live in WA and al I know about this place is Fraser Island has great fishing, dingoes and you can catch muddies in your backyard with a place on the creek....love it!

PPL are going make some very big $$$ by buying into this as long as you can aford to hold until the retirees realise what the heck is going on.....amasing stuff!


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## nizar (17 March 2007)

darian said:
			
		

> I totally agree with nomore4. It was never easy for anyone. You think it was easy for me save my money?? NO, i don't think so. Its through hard work and dedication and learning about the share market at a young age. Ive done this because I don't want to be left out of the next property boom like my parents did. Back in 1986, a 3 bedroom house only cost $80,000 in the city, if my parents were more investment savvy and bought a few of these we'd be millionaires by now. But in those days they thought it was too expensive. If people always have the perception that houses are overpriced, they will never get anywhere. Who knows when the next boom will be?? Property will never be too expensive!!
> If you're worry about your kids not being able to afford a home, think twice. They are in a country that provides quality education and excellent living conditions, they will never starve to death if they work hard and earn a uni degree!




Exactly.
My friends uncle bought several blocks of land in the Mt.Eliza area in the early 80s for about $20-30k.
He's unloading them now for the 400-500k mark.

I commented that he did well, but my friend made a good point. His uncle didnt get bargains. He paid market price at the time.

Rather then complaining, just work hard, save, and you'll get there. And dont put it off. Property generally gets more expensive over time.

And if property does get cheaper, its probably when you DONT want to be buying. Remember those poor Japs, they started buying what they thought was a dip at around 1990, after all, property prices had gone up something like 100x over the last 30 years. But it was actually the beginning of the end, as the economy collapsed.... and then their bargain became more of a bargain, and so on.... like those people that average down.....


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## robots (17 March 2007)

hello,

normally after around 6-7yrs of home ownership the cost of owning will be pretty much the cost of renting the same house

from this time on you kill anybody who is renting, you own the property and you put your disposable cash into other assets just like the renter

thankyou

robots


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## nomore4s (17 March 2007)

rockingham178 said:
			
		

> Yes I agree....PPL like me
> 
> This is just unbelievably cheap I could sell 3 properties and buy a street in Hervey Bay on the coast!....bye...I'm think I need to go on a 'holiday'..... to 'look at the scenery'.....I live in WA and al I know about this place is Fraser Island has great fishing, dingoes and you can catch muddies in your backyard with a place on the creek....love it!
> 
> PPL are going make some very big $$$ by buying into this as long as you can aford to hold until the retirees realise what the heck is going on.....amasing stuff!




Yeah it will eventually go off, which will give employment a boost eventually as well. It's probably a bit short on infastructure at the moment as well.
My other half owns a house there, she got it for just over $100k about 5 or so years ago, and it's only a couple of 100m from the beach.


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## nioka (17 March 2007)

rockingham178 said:
			
		

> Yes I agree....PPL like me
> 
> This is just unbelievably cheap I could sell 3 properties and buy a street in Hervey Bay on the coast!....bye...I'm think I need to go on a 'holiday'..... to 'look at the scenery'.....I live in WA and al I know about this place is Fraser Island has great fishing, dingoes and you can catch muddies in your backyard with a place on the creek....love it!
> 
> PPL are going make some very big $$$ by buying into this as long as you can aford to hold until the retirees realise what the heck is going on.....amasing stuff!



Sounds like realestate agents talk to me. I'VE BEEN THERE. I've lived there.
There are nice places there but the cheapies are cheapies for a reason.


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## rockingham178 (17 March 2007)

nioka said:
			
		

> Sounds like realestate agents talk to me. I'VE BEEN THERE. I've lived there.
> There are nice places there but the cheapies are cheapies for a reason.






LOL...I am so far away from being a real estate agent it isn't funny....

I am an active property investor though and I seek out locations just as this. Buy when unpopular, provided the place has some sort of future. As someone who is retiring in 5 years this is amasingly cheap for coastal living.

Nobody wanted to live in Eden NSW, or Manduarah (especially Falcon) in the 70's and 80's.......now look at them.

one word ....vision


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## Julia (17 March 2007)

The comments about the unemployment rate in Hervey Bay are quite correct.  I think it's about the third highest in the country.
And yes, definitely it's becoming a popular place for retirees.  About five years ago there were only three retirement villages (or "Over 50's Resorts") here, and how there seems to be a new one advertised about every couple of weeks.  And very upmarket they are too with really fantastic facilities - indoor and outdoor pools, restaurants, bars, putting greens, bowling greens, cinemas etc etc.

So there are heaps of retirees who have sold properties in the southern states, moved here, bought a better home than they owned down south, and have plenty left over to travel.

There is very little industry which I suppose explains to some extent the unemployment problem.  Most jobs are in tourism/hospitality.
The other factor affecting the unemployment rate is that people on welfare in another area who have no real intention of looking for work think it would be nicer living here than in a city.  

Plenty of work for builders and other tradies.

Downside for the retirees, though, is that major medical needs require travel to Brisbane, e.g. radiation for cancer etc.  As in all regional centres, the best medical specialists are rarely attracted to the reduced facilities in regional hospitals and prefer to stay in main centres where their careers are better advanced amongst peer support and further education.

Another consideration if moving from a main city is relatively little in the way of cultural pursuits.  No symphony orchestra concerts or full scale ballet etc.
There is a branch of USQ which is growing every year.

One of the biggest plus factors is a very supportive and active community, far more so than I've ever found in a big city.  There is also a very pro-active and capable local council.

Many kilometres of beautiful beaches, much of which is dog friendly, calm safe water, no stingers, and a wonderful climate make up for the disadvantages of being away from a city.

Julia


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## rockingham178 (17 March 2007)

Julia....even if you were/are a real estae agent you have sold me....not that I have anything against REA.

USQ...... I studied my management post grad with USQ. Good memories...made me work for it though...lol

Hervey Bay deserves some closer scrutiny for me. I live in a semi-rural environment now and have no desire to ever live in a city anywhere again and I need acreage on the coast (we have large dogs and horses and I just love fishing).

I have been having a little look at properties today for my next entry (thus sitting at a PC for hours on end...sigh) and this may be very timely....off to do some research.

For young people in mining work....this is possibly an excellent opportunity at low entry into property and just do FIFO....then buy lots more like I do.


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## REA (17 March 2007)

The Illawarra south of Sydney has cheaper real estate.   From Wollongong it takes 1 1\2 hours by train to Sydney and the same time to drive.  There are no traffic jams such as you see in western Sydney.

A two bedroom unit in Wollongong starts from about $190-200,000.

A flat block of land south of Wollongong from  $195,000.

An older home in a not so popular suburb from $270,000 some poorer homes even cheaper.

Most of these vary from 1km to 6km from the beaches.

The first home is never the last.


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## theasxgorilla (17 March 2007)

Stan 101 said:
			
		

> Interesting post, Riesling. Without spoiling the party, can I just mention that many credit cards will now not let you roll over cash advances and give you an interest free honeymoon. I've spoken to a few people who thought they would try that trick and got burnt when they were paying the full rate on cash advances from day one.




Perhaps you'd like to mention the ones that don't work.  I can tell you that with HSBC and ANZ this is NOT a problem.


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## stockpanther (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> Yes I believe second highest unemployment rate in the Country (alot by choice), Low Wages, Seasonal work (Picking, Whale Season), No Industry, and yes alot of Realestate for sale. I imagine alot will sell in coming years as boomers discover it and retire there.




Can't be unemployed by choice. If you choose to be unemployed, technically you are not participating, hence you aren't counted in the unemployment rate...correct?


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## numbercruncher (17 March 2007)

stockpanther said:
			
		

> Can't be unemployed by choice. If you choose to be unemployed, technically you are not participating, hence you aren't counted in the unemployment rate...correct?





Correct !! I saw a thing recently about the sheer number of non participants in Australia atm, was like over 20pc , amazing.


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## Freeballinginawetsuit (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> Correct !! I saw a thing recently about the sheer number of non participants in Australia atm, was like over 20pc , amazing.




In the end partaking in non participation has its downfalls, especially when you begin participating again.

Most would tend to cloud thier level of participation.....if they are able too, this tends to become easier the more you have and totally dependant on the government at the time


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## rockingham178 (17 March 2007)

numbercruncher said:
			
		

> Correct !! I saw a thing recently about the sheer number of non participants in Australia atm, was like over 20pc , amazing.




Yes and we who chose to participate pay for this laziness......


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## Stan 101 (18 March 2007)

theasxgorilla said:
			
		

> Perhaps you'd like to mention the ones that don't work.  I can tell you that with HSBC and ANZ this is NOT a problem.



Sure, the one's in question were bankwest (which I thought were now owned buy HSBC????), ANZ as I have their pamphlett in front of me now, Westpac (from memory) and up until recently, Virgin. Called them last night and they no longer have that policy.

I'll happily change the OP.


Cheers,


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## Kipp (18 March 2007)

nizar said:
			
		

> What are the age brackets for GenX and GenY?



Niz- GenX Finished with those born in 1977.
GenY 1978-2000 (I just made it)
and after 2000... I dunno, GenZ??

(Methinks you are from Y as well?...)

As far as this post goes- I am intrigued by all of the stories I have of my friends that have gone to London and made a packet (in seemingly ANY field) my experience in Scotland has not been so positive (only 6 weeks now) but it ain't quite so easy up here... I too am in accounting (though only as an Assistant) and I make a paltry 8quid an hour... retrospectively Melbourne was a much better wicket.  guess I'll be heading to London soon like every other Aussie.

And yes, nice story Riesling... I especially liked the bi using those c.cards for cashflow... if they'll offer you 30K interest free it'd be crazy not to take it!!!
Cherers


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## Kipp (18 March 2007)

Mousie said:
			
		

> Dare anyone think, just maybe, that...
> 
> House ownership is overrated?
> 
> ...



Yeah... one more- when the market turns sour, it's much easier to liquidate your shares (in 5 mins) than selling a house which can take upwards of 6 weeks, by which time the bear has already settled in...


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## BradK (18 March 2007)

Hi all, 

Im off to London at the end of the year with my wife and 1 year old. I work as a school teacher and while I will not clean up in that field, it will give me the opportunity to visit most of Europe and some of the mid east. Some posts here have made me wonder how I can get hold of that 30k GBP interest free for investment purposes.... hmmmmmm. While I will not get a big wage in the UK, I am always interested in what the 'system' offers and how I can financially benefit from it - and I am a so-called 'left wing HSC English teacher!' 

On to houses... my experiences

I am 31 and bought a unit in 2002 with the paltry deposit of $1000 in total (lucky for me, I have a mate who is a conveyancer!). I sold it in March 2003, and got into my house at the death of the boom on a 'silly deal'. Some say the boom has a little more dying to do... but, we'll see. So, I have been fortunate and can now move to England and rent out my property with the rental covering the repayments and rates. 

However, I can say that - what is it worth? I do not think that sky price property prices benefit anyone. Even if I move from my current house I need to step across to something else - equally as overpriced. 

And of course the costs associated with moving including real estate agents fees, legals, stamp duty on new property, loan switching fees, etc are eqivalent to 1500 BHP shares. 

The current 'housing affordability crisis' has forced me to some real thinking. I have come to some summary conclusions including; IF THE BANKS ARE ENCOURAGING YOU TO DO SOMETHING IT ONLY BENEFITS THEM! and there must be another way. I spend alot of time with a pad and pencial dreaming up scenarios to reduce my mortgage or work out the affordability of this or that without becoming a slave. 

The strategy I have used (and I am fortunate enough to have the equity for this) is to have drawn down some money and write covered calls with the money in order to pay the principal and interest on my mortgage. That said, I am very much aware that many 20 or 30 somethings have 95% or 100% LVR's and this is not possible. 

Look, I am not saying that property is bad. Clearly, it has been good to me - and provides a great basis for getting finance. But, I am saying that in terms of money management, we must be CREATIVE in our strategy to get the dream otherwise it can really turn into a nightmare which robs our ability to live family lives, travel and be generous. 

I know that these forums tend to be all about investment, but money management will make you sink or swim. 

Perhaps we could all give a tip about one or two of the things we do out outside of the square which helps to achieve our financial dreams? 

MY TIP: 
I have found writing covered calls with my equity to pay for my property has worked for me - so far (of course this is NOT financial advise, and I work through a broker to help me achieve this and should not be taken as financial advice) 

All the best - a great thread
Brad


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## nizar (18 March 2007)

Kipp said:
			
		

> Yeah... one more- when the market turns sour, it's much easier to liquidate your shares (in 5 mins) than selling a house which can take upwards of 6 weeks, by which time the bear has already settled in...





Kipp - Im in Gen Y as well born 1984.

And i have to agree with you, thats why i prefer shares over property,
1)Liquidity
2)Divisibility

(and plus i dont have enough money for a property but no1 needs to know that!! LOL)


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## Riesling (18 March 2007)

Kipp

I totally agree on the Scotland thing.   I love Scotland and was always tempted to move but worked out I would still have more savings at the end of the week if I worked in London and flew to Scotland every weekend!

Enjoy it while you're there though and be sure to go to my favourite restaurants The Three Chimneys on the Isle of Skye and Kilmichael on the Isle of Arran.

Still want to live there for 6 months sometime though and looking for a summer renovation project all the time....

Riesling


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## Mousie (19 March 2007)

nizar said:
			
		

> Kipp - Im in Gen Y as well born 1984.
> 
> And i have to agree with you, thats why i prefer shares over property,
> 1)Liquidity
> ...




Kipp, nizar,

Greetings from another Gen-Yer, guess we all think quite alike don't we?


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## Kipp (23 March 2007)

Riesling said:
			
		

> Kipp
> 
> I totally agree on the Scotland thing.   I love Scotland and was always tempted to move but worked out I would still have more savings at the end of the week if I worked in London and flew to Scotland every weekend!
> 
> ...



Hmm... a bit of a drive from my place in Edinburgh but I'm hoping to get to Arran when things warm up a bit... (Summer don't arive in Scotland till End of June!!!)


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