# Hey Hey it's .... Returning?



## sam76 (15 July 2009)

Although it finished 10 years ago, the format could easily be adapted to today.

I say bring back Hey Hey!

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,25784748-10229,00.html


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## Timmy (15 July 2009)

sam76 said:


> I say bring back Hey Hey!




Me too.  Not necessarily with the same people, except for The Angel and Fred Fly, 2 essentials.  Oh, and Ozzie of course.


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## Sean K (15 July 2009)

Yes, only if The Angel and Ozzie host.

The rest turned to mush late in the piece. 

Probably ran 5 years too long.


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## springhill (15 July 2009)

Success all depends who fronts the show, if its Dropkick Dazza i'd rather film the hair on my ass growing and watch 24/7 repeats of that instead
Wouldnt mind seeing Red Symonds involved in some capacity again, his dryyyyyy humor is up my alley, so to speak....


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## YELNATS (15 July 2009)

I'd watch it again, but only if they had the chook raffle and Dicky Knee was the host.


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## sam76 (15 July 2009)

My fav was Plucka.


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## alwaysLearning (15 July 2009)

I wouldn't watch it but the duck was always funny.


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## Tysonboss1 (15 July 2009)

I would like lavinia nixon to be a part of it again,

there is just not enough of her on tv


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## son of baglimit (15 July 2009)

tyson - you dont happen to work for the weather bureau - i hear they have posters of her in there lol.

HHIS - once a great show - saturday morning must - and then saturday night essential viewing - til about 85 when it started to be taken over by the commercial interests of channel 9 - til then it was "ok guys we have 18 segments to do in 3 hours - if we get 10 done weve done well" - and that was its magic - ad lib, no script, just a list of things to do and fitting in what was possible. 
blackers upstairs, red & wilber (if anyone can remember wilburs pseudo audition to the night show in the last of the morning shows - a classic), the amazing 'post elton john concert' hour (or 2), the morning live shows (with amazing adult rated humour for that time of day), the angel, dickie knee, alfred desk mike, the list goes on.

one favourite memory - one morning daryl was wearing a shirt with 
                               HEY HEY 
                         ITS SATURDAY 
written on the front. daryl wore a jacket over it. the lay of jacket however revealed only part of the message - primarily
                               HEY HEY
                                 TURD
once noticed ozzie says "weve started a fan club for tv executives"
that was the finish for the day - 1 hour in and they couldnt do anymore, they were laughing that much.

p.s. i do have fond memories - i won chooklotto once - a trip to great keppel.


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## stevenc (15 July 2009)

Could you imagine modern television reviving hey hey. You would have Rove as the new host, Gretel from big brother as his co host, Richard Reid as the us correspondent with his buddy Wilkins by his side doing the music segments, Kyle Sandilands doing the voice overs.  Ah no thanks, rather keep the great memories of the show still in my mind then have a new version ruin them.


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## Kremmen (16 July 2009)

son of baglimit said:


> the amazing 'post elton john concert' hour (or 2)



I remember that one. They straddled an Elton John concert. Came back after it off their faces. They should have got pissed more often. 

Honestly, it got tired in the later years, but I still watched it a little ... probably less than 10% of the time ... but that's still a lot more than the 0% of the time that I watch Sat night TV now.


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## GumbyLearner (16 July 2009)

YELNATS said:


> I'd watch it again, but only if they had the chook raffle and Dicky Knee was the host.




Yes I agree. 

Pluck-a-duck with Wilbur Wilde and/or Red Symons with a sledge hammer would also be a pre-requisite for watching


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## Happy (16 July 2009)

stevenc said:


> Could you imagine modern television reviving hey hey. ...




They have so many channels now they can re-run it from archives like Skippy or Mash or Friends


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## sam76 (25 July 2009)

Perhaps someone at 9 trades shares.....


coz it's Back!

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,25832031-10229,00.html


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## knocker (25 July 2009)

Someone must be hard up.


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## Dukey (25 July 2009)

stevenc said:


> Could you imagine modern television reviving hey hey. You would have Rove as the new host, Gretel from big brother as his co host, Richard Reid as the us correspondent with his buddy Wilkins by his side doing the music segments, Kyle Sandilands doing the voice overs.  Ah no thanks, rather keep the great memories of the show still in my mind then have a new version ruin them.




ABC or SBS would do a better job IMO......commercial channels are..... too commercial.  it's all about the $$$$$$$$$

Maybe ABC should start " Hi Ho its Saturday" so they don't have to pay copyright!!!!!!!!!!!


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## knocker (25 July 2009)

Is this to replace their latest flop with that dancing show ?  Bury free to air please.


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## Timmy (25 July 2009)

sam76 said:


> Perhaps someone at 9 trades shares.....
> 
> 
> coz it's Back!
> ...




Excellent.

Sam, you are truly in touch with the zeitgeist!


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## Sean K (25 July 2009)

I have read that Daryl, Dickie Knee and Plucka Duck will be back.

So what? 

Maybe they should go to a Thursday night timeslot and host a footy show?


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## justjohn (25 July 2009)

Or should replace that other crappy show ''FAT PEOPLE SHOULDN'T DANCE''


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## Smurf1976 (25 July 2009)

kennas said:


> I have read that Daryl, Dickie Knee and Plucka Duck will be back.
> 
> So what?
> 
> Maybe they should go to a Thursday night timeslot and host a footy show?



ANYTHING would have to be better than another fotty show of any description...

Fair enough to put football on TV, but it's ridiculous when some variant of the game or commentary about it is on every channel at the same time. And if you look at the ratings, the majority of Australians aren't watching any of them.

I pretty much stopped watching TV when all the cheap "reality" and real estate spruiking took over a few years ago. If I want to hear blatant ramping of investments (which I don't...) then there are plenty of places to get that other than prime time TV. And if I want reality then I'll go out the front door rather than sit in the lounge room.

Bring back Hey Hey? Well it's the most obvious thing to do given it's about the only thing Channel 9 has that (1) would likely attract a decent audience (2) isn't already being run by another network and (3) could actually be produced fairly quickly and at reasonable cost.


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## Shane Viper (25 July 2009)

I watched it as a kid but wouldn't watch it now.


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## Iggy_Pop (25 July 2009)

Somethings are best left behind, Hey, Hey being one of them. Always best to go out on a high.


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## Savoy Special (26 July 2009)

As long as it's Hey Hey it's Sunday or Monday.

The footy is on.Sorry but I am not alone!!


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## son of baglimit (26 July 2009)

but channel 9 dont show the footy !!!











(yep im trying to start that age old fight again)


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## Smurf1976 (26 July 2009)

That they are going to the trouble of doing two shows does suggest that a permanent revival is at least being considered. 

Ratings will determine its fate as they do with everything else on TV. I'd be surprised if the first one isn't an outright ratings winner purely due to the nostalgia and curiosity factor. What happens with the second show will be more telling however - people won't watch if they didn't like what they saw on the first one.


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## Savoy Special (26 July 2009)

son of baglimit said:


> but channel 9 dont show the footy !!!
> 
> Yeeeeees but if they put it on then , I will be watching the footy on another channel.
> 
> ...


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## MrBurns (26 July 2009)

Daryl should be there if he can be bothered, he made the show in the first place , same with Dancing with the Stars, he's in the same league as Graham Kennedy and Bert Newton though he wouldnt accept that compliment as true as it is.


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## Whiskers (28 July 2009)

sam76 said:


> Although it finished 10 years ago, the format could easily be adapted to today.
> 
> I say bring back Hey Hey!
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,25784748-10229,00.html




Yeah, so I heard!

It was the best entertainment on of a weekend for my money. 

I remember so vividly why nine axed the show... it was costing to much to produce. Huh, those numb nuts seemed to think they could increase profitablity by cutting costs... that produced their highest rating shows.

Anyway, if it can be revamped with a fraction of the humour and fun of the earlier show it should be a hit.


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## Happy (28 July 2009)

MrBurns said:


> *Daryl **should be there if he can be bothered, he made the show in the first place* ,* same with Dancing with the Stars*, he's in the same league as Graham Kennedy and Bert Newton though he wouldnt accept that compliment as true as it is.





I have the same impression.


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## justjohn (28 July 2009)

I'm not a big Daryl fan but he can come back with the show as long as he doesn't sing or play those @$#%@#drums


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## MrBurns (28 July 2009)

justjohn said:


> I'm not a big Daryl fan but he can come back with the show as long as he doesn't sing or play those @$#%@#drums




I was a mate of his in our younger days we played in seperate bands , both drummers, he's got a great voice, and personality by the truckload.


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## Zird (28 July 2009)

Says something about current TV programmers when they resort to dragging some mediocre show  back from the dead instead of inventing something new.  Weekend TV is appalling.


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## MrBurns (28 July 2009)

UBE said:


> Says something about current TV programmers when they resort to dragging some mediocre show  back from the dead instead of inventing something new.  Weekend TV is appalling.




Hey Hey was a great show, hopefully it will replace some crappy offering put in there by the dim wits who made the change in the first place.


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## Krusty the Klown (28 July 2009)

UBE said:


> Weekend TV is appalling.




Free to air TV is appalling.


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## Mofra (28 July 2009)

People want to see it, so why not? Not that I'd ever be home at the time it's on anyway. It has to be better than another reality TV or home makeover show.


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## MrBurns (28 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> Free to air TV is appalling.




Except for SBS and the ABC

Hey Hey used to be on at just the right time so everyone could see a lot of it before they went out on Saturdays, it just was a part of Saturday night.


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## Krusty the Klown (28 July 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Except for SBS and the ABC.




Yes, I must agree there

Please amend my original quote to free to air commercial TV. (and also except for cricket and car racing)


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## Smurf1976 (28 July 2009)

Mofra said:


> It has to be better than another reality TV or home makeover show.



Exactly.


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## sam76 (30 September 2009)

The show starts in 15 minutes, ladies.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2009)

sam76 said:


> The show starts in 15 minutes, ladies.





10

I was a mate of Daryls in the old days, very talented guy, very smart, never went out and got drunk with the rest of us.

Great voice but stay away from the drums please.


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## son of baglimit (30 September 2009)

sadly, 30 mins in and ive turned off.

the best was 82-85 - and it wont return.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2009)

son of baglimit said:


> sadly, 30 mins in and ive turned off.
> 
> the best was 82-85 - and it wont return.




You must be kidding  30 minutes in and it's already the best thing on TV


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## Atlas79 (30 September 2009)

Not bad... but 90% of the show so far has been about the show itself...


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## nunthewiser (30 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> 10
> 
> I was a mate of Daryls in the old days, very talented guy, very smart, never went out and got drunk with the rest of us.




Mr Burns = Dicky Knee ?


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## sam76 (30 September 2009)

I'm still watching...

They are definitely settling in now.


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## GumbyLearner (30 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> Mr Burns = Dicky Knee ?




No, not enough spontaneous or intellectual wit. Just wouldn't match.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2009)

I'll post the ratings tomorrow, be ready for a shock.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> No, not enough spontaneous or intellectual wit. Just wouldn't match.




Your opinion is always valued, now someones thrown up in the outside toilet so get back to work and clean it up please.


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## sam76 (30 September 2009)

Plucka!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=best+plucka+duck


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## sam76 (30 September 2009)

Well, I enjoyed it.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2009)

sam76 said:


> Plucka!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=best+plucka+duck




There's nothing funnier than that produced in Australia even now


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## AussiePaul72 (30 September 2009)

Great show ........ nothing rivals this on tv ...... bring back 'Hey Hey' ...... its still got the goods in my opinion!!


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## MrBurns (30 September 2009)

Funny
Smart
Quick
Extremely entertaining
Perfect

All executed by the perfect mix of personalities and led by the best live TV presenter since Grahan Kennedy

Well done Dazza............


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## nunthewiser (30 September 2009)

just started in WA 

please no one tell me the ending


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## ThingyMajiggy (30 September 2009)

now thats a proper show, had a good old laugh, not that common these days on telly. 

loved it! great characters, classic stuff  keen to see what the ratings were.


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## springhill (30 September 2009)

Great show!
W....T....F.... was with the Great Aussie Joke segment? That was just plain creepy.


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## nunthewiser (1 October 2009)

Excellent stuff .......... is it a new series or just a couple of episodes ?


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## Gone Fishin (1 October 2009)

Utta tripe Is dazza that hard up for cash? Just bury free to air please


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## nulla nulla (1 October 2009)

It was too painful to watch right to the end, even the kids thought it was lame and flat. Good on Daryl for losing weight since dancing with sonja, but he needs to find something new instead of trying to rehash something that worked 30 years ago.


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## moXJO (1 October 2009)

Maybe they should have named it "iSaturday 2.0" for the younger crowd


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## Agentm (1 October 2009)

Gone Fishin said:


> Utta tripe Is dazza that hard up for cash? Just bury free to air please




i lasted 1 minute..

lame and sad..

we have way better comedy and can do so much better..

bring back sideshow


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## Nyden (1 October 2009)

Garbage. Watched it for about 15 minutes, and just couldn't stand it anymore. FYI, I was a fan of the original series. Some things are better left a memory, I suppose.


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## AQR (1 October 2009)

Loved it and I hope it returns full time


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## Knobby22 (1 October 2009)

Thought it was OK.

I don't see how it can return in its present form but maybe a modified version with a bit of youth and it might.


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## Timmy (1 October 2009)

Didn't get to watch Hey Hey  (or any TV last night)

Here is news on the ratings, Hey Hey thrashed that cooking show.

MasterChef fails to cook Daryl Somers's duck


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## MrBurns (1 October 2009)

Timmy said:


> Didn't get to watch Hey Hey  (or any TV last night)
> 
> Here is news on the ratings, Hey Hey thrashed that cooking show.
> 
> MasterChef fails to cook Daryl Somers's duck







> Nine's heavily publicised reunion of its iconic 1990s music variety show Hey! Hey! It's Saturday was a ratings atomic bomb, flattening the competition and drawing 2.1 million viewers nationally.
> 
> Ten's Celebrity MasterChef, which many had expected to cook Daryl Somers's duck, attracted only 1.3 million nationally.




They were hoping for 1.7m, so this is fantastic.

The only reason it wont be back full time is if it's too expensive to produce.

Let's face a room full of bores cooking badly doesnt cost a lot to put on air and satifies many of the dullard viewers who have been trained to expect nothing more.


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## Prospector (1 October 2009)

The thing is with shows like this, if you try to tell the jokes later, you realise they are really pathetic and wonder why you laughed at them when the show was on.  Kind of 'you had to be there' thing.

People need shows like this - we have too many murders, bad news, dramas on now - we are not mentally built to live on these kinds of things.  Whether or not Hey Hey is the way to do this, well, I am not a Darryl fan, but we do desperately need more feel good laugh style (good quality not US sitcom - except for Two and a half men which is funny) programs.

I didnt watch Hey Hey but Masterchef, and then onto Foxtel and cricket.


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## Knobby22 (1 October 2009)

It is nostalgia. I can't see it keeping these sorts of ratings. 

Good to see the old boys though.


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## Smurf1976 (1 October 2009)

Let's face it, the "reality" nonsense that's so common these days is little more than a specialised one to two hour long version of Red Faces. At least Hey Hey had the sense to leave it as a 10 minute segment.

Didn't watch it for years before it was taken off air but watched it last night and I'd have to say that it's in a class of its' own - there's no direct competition. Those saying there's a "gap" in Australian TV are correct in that sense.

Gut feeling towards the end of the show was that it will be back permanently next year - all seemed to be going well...


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## Happy (1 October 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> ...
> 
> At least Hey Hey had the sense to leave it as a 10 minute segment.
> 
> ...






This is probably what irked me in all the other shows, not to mention that waiting *after the break *to see who was eliminated got on my nerves too.

Some segments don't agree with me, but this is well-balanced couple of hours of fairly light entertainment without crime investigation or seriously puffed up judges.

Would not mind if it got back to Saturday slot, as it belongs to weekend feeling.


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## Whiskers (1 October 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> Let's face it, the "reality" nonsense that's so common these days is little more than a specialised one to two hour long version of Red Faces. At least Hey Hey had the sense to leave it as a 10 minute segment.
> 
> Didn't watch it for years before it was taken off air but watched it last night and I'd have to say that it's in a class of its' own - there's no direct competition. Those saying there's a "gap" in Australian TV are correct in that sense.
> 
> *Gut feeling towards the end of the show was that it will be back permanently next year - all seemed to be going well*...




Me too. I wonder whether it was actually a screen test for a revival.



Prospector said:


> The thing is with shows like this, if you try to tell the jokes later, you realise they are really pathetic and wonder why you laughed at them when the show was on.  Kind of 'you had to be there' thing.




Yeah, I think it's the unpredictable spontaininty of all the characters.



Happy said:


> This is probably what irked me in all the other shows, not to mention that waiting *after the break *to see who was eliminated got on my nerves too.
> 
> Some segments don't agree with me, but *this is well-balanced couple of hours of fairly light entertainment* without crime investigation or seriously puffed up judges.
> 
> Would not mind if it got back to Saturday slot, as it belongs to weekend feeling.




Agree here and would love to see it back on Saturdays.


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## greggy (1 October 2009)

Timmy said:


> Didn't get to watch Hey Hey  (or any TV last night)
> 
> Here is news on the ratings, Hey Hey thrashed that cooking show.
> 
> MasterChef fails to cook Daryl Somers's duck




Love every minute of Hey, Hey last night. The entertainment was great and the humour was very spontaneous. Its about time they bring it back for ever.  I grew up with it and loved it. I still love it. However, wheres Ossie?


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## Krusty the Klown (1 October 2009)

Happy said:


> without......seriously puffed up judges.




Yes, that is a charactaristic of all the judges, isn't it? They all seem to have a holier than thou attitude, especially the fashion shows. They all have to be nasty and there is always some sort of a feud between some contestants.



Whiskers said:


> Me too. I wonder whether it was actually a screen test for a revival.




That's exactly what it is, that's why they are doing two shows, to see if the ratings will hold past the nostalgia of the first show.


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## MrBurns (1 October 2009)

greggy said:


> However, wheres Ossie?




Next week.


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## Smurf1976 (1 October 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> That's exactly what it is, that's why they are doing two shows, to see if the ratings will hold past the nostalgia of the first show.



Agreed there. They did the show "properly" and spent a few $ building a set etc whereas they could easily have run it cheaply as a "nostalgia" show primarily filled with clips from the past.

If it rates reasonably next week then I'd be pretty confident it will be back next year on a regular basis. Let's face it - it's about the only thing Channel 9 has that has even half a chance of drawing a large audience on an ongoing basis.

In a broader sense, and one that has some relevance to investing, the whole saga is a classic case of abandoning something fundamentally sound in order to cash in on the short term boom that was reality TV. The boom's turned to bust as was inevitable, hence the scramble to go back to anything that seems likely to work going forward. 

Love it or hate it, Hey Hey clearly stands out as the most obvious choice to be revived. What other program that's been off the screens for years has had ongoing calls to bring it back ever since it was axed? Few if any.

It was always my understanding that the only reason it was axed in the first place was the cost of production relative to ratings. The same audience could be bought more cheaply using unpaid "actors" in a reality program. It wasn't that people stopped watching Hey Hey, it's just that the alternatives were cheaper and hence more profitable... until people stopped watching them.

It's a bit like selling the big banks, Woolworths, BHP and so on in order to put your money in the lastest speculative stock craze. It works for a while, but you'll only make money if you know when to get out and go back to something more fundamentally sound.


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## scanspeak (2 October 2009)

My thoughts ... 

- leaves Rove for dead
- they should leave out the viewer emails and video segments, kills the flow
- great to see non scripted wit and old school humour
- choice of musicians could have been better
- we desperately need a show like this that appeals to the 35+ crowd 
- brought back so many memories of my teens!


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## MrBurns (7 October 2009)

*Hey Hey*

What a brilliant piece of television may it set the pace for another 30 years.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 October 2009)

*Re: Hey Hey*



MrBurns said:


> What a brilliant piece of television may it set the pace for another 30 years.




lol Burnsie.

You are a stirrer mate.

gg


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## MrBurns (7 October 2009)

Wondered where this thread was, well done to the mods

Rove must be staring at the screen gobsmacked......... this is how it should be done.


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## Timmy (7 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> well done to the mods  Rove must be staring at the screen gobsmacked......... this is how it should be done.




Why thanks Mr. B, but I don't think Rove is a member here.

(the wonder of selective editing)


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## sam76 (7 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Wondered where this thread was, well done to the mods
> 
> Rove must be staring at the screen gobsmacked......... this is how it should be done.




minus the racist undertones.... 

(which personally I thought Harry should have kept to himself)

Darryl handled it well though


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## MrBurns (7 October 2009)

Timmy said:


> Why thanks Mr. B, but I don't think Rove is a member here.
> 
> (the wonder of selective editing)




You sure ?


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## MrBurns (7 October 2009)

sam76 said:


> minus the racist undertones....
> 
> (which personally I thought Harry should have kept to himself)
> 
> Darryl handled it well though




Thats been addressed, Aussies laugh at everything including color..


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## sam76 (7 October 2009)

I almost welled up....

too good to not bring back to Saturday nights.

Australia needs something the whole country can get behind...


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## MrBurns (7 October 2009)

sam76 said:


> I almost welled up....
> 
> too good to not bring back to Saturday nights.
> 
> Australia needs something the whole country can get behind...




This is humor that is clever not just relying on crudeness and shock value.

It's not entirely clean but is respectful and recognizes certain boundaries.

Very few people understand this , Somers Carroll do..


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## moXJO (8 October 2009)

Shame someone didn't have the sense to see the red faces skit might cause some offense in PC Australia. Still makes me cringe after all these years, but the kids loved it. Does make you feel nostalgic.


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## Prospector (8 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Thats been addressed, Aussies laugh at everything including color..




Which is probably one of the most serious and subtle forms of racism you can get - because 'jokes' like this have racist undertones, then everyone dismisses it by saying 'Hey, it was just a joke'.

Oz TV does need a live comedy production show like Hey Hey but while it has the Darryl Somers flavour I wont be watching it.


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## waz (8 October 2009)

Mt Burns put it right. Hay Hay doesnt rely on crudeness and shock value.

SMH on the other hand, is relying on shock value by making it the number one storey on its website this morning.

Lesson learnt: Hay Hay has great ratings.
SMH is struggling to make money

As a side note, SMH also has Kyle Sandlands as their number 4 main storey.

I wonder if there is a facebook group entitled '1 billion people who dont give a **** about scandals'. Im so joining.


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

Prospector said:


> Which is probably one of the most serious and subtle forms of racism you can get - because 'jokes' like this have racist undertones, then everyone dismisses it by saying 'Hey, it was just a joke'.
> 
> Oz TV does need a live comedy production show like Hey Hey but while it has the Darryl Somers flavour I wont be watching it.




People make jokes about whites "white trash with cash" for instance. Doesn't offend me.
I think the people who are over sensitive to some harmless clever jokes should just get over it.
BUT - you do have to know where to draw the line.


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## sam76 (8 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> People make jokes about whites "white trash with cash" for instance. Doesn't offend me.




At least you admit it, lol


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

sam76 said:


> At least you admit it, lol




I'm proud to be white but sometimes I wish I was Tiger Woods:


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## waza1960 (8 October 2009)

> Which is probably one of the most serious and subtle forms of racism you can get - because 'jokes' like this have racist undertones, then everyone dismisses it by saying 'Hey, it was just a joke'.



Strongly Disagree . This statement above is actually reverse racism its ok to make fun or ridicule white people but off limits to others ......typical PC crap. Another of my pet hates another entertainer who wants to dictate our way of thinking or impose his views on us, is he better informed or more intelligent than the rest of us as to what constitutes racism ? I doubt it.        Surely the test of racism is the manner and intention which the humour is presented which was innocent in my opinion.                                           As far as political correctness in the show goes if it continues I'm sure it will be a little more polished.


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## Dark1975 (8 October 2009)

I only seen the last 30mins of last night's show,I didn't see dickie knee?I was hoping to get a glimpse of dickie,I used to lmao all the time as his head would bob up..Dickie knee as pm,I'D prefer dickie instead of krudd.


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## Smurf1976 (8 October 2009)

The act related to Michael Jackson, arguably the ultimate racist himself given his black to white transformation presumably in the pursuit of record sales and profit.

I can't see the slightest problem with a Red Faces act that merely played on what everyone in the Western world already knows, that Jackson himself changed his colour.

20 years ago jokes about Jackson's colour change and plastic surgery were everywhere and the facts of his transformation have not changed and never will. He was the racist, not someone having a bit of a joke on an entertainment show.

If someone had made fun of Kevin Rudd, would they be accused of being anti-Australian or against democracy for poking fun at a democratically elected leader? If someone makes a joke the next time the share market plunges does that make them anti-capitalist?

Australian society is becoming far too sensitive and politically correct in my opinion. 

Should I take action against the next person who jokes about my height, weight, hairstyle (or increasing lack of hair...), choice of clothing or any other personal attribute? I sure won't be as long as it's in the spirit of humor, which that act on Red Faces certainly was.


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## Happy (8 October 2009)

Political correctness at its best.

What I am waiting for now is somebody brave enough to take to court somebody for making racist remark like: ‘White fella’.


----------



## Prospector (8 October 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> The act related to Michael Jackson, arguably the ultimate racist himself given his black to white transformation presumably in the pursuit of record sales and profit.
> I can't see the slightest problem with a Red Faces act that merely played on what everyone in the Western world already knows, that Jackson himself changed his colour..





Actually, Michael's skin problems started with vitiligo. Thanks wiki for this: _The most notable symptom of vitiligo is depigmentation of patches of skin that occurs on the extremities. Although patches are initially small, they often enlarge and change shape. When skin lesions occur, they are most prominent on the face, hands and wrists. Depigmentation is particularly noticeable around body orifices, such as the mouth, eyes, nostrils, genitalia and umbilicus. Some lesions have hyperpigmentation around the edges.[2] In regards to psychological damage, vitiligo can have a significant effect on the mental health of a patient.[3] Psychological stress may even result in an individual becoming more susceptible to vitiligo. Patients who are stigmatised for their condition may experience depression and similar mood disorders.[4]._



Smurf1976 said:


> I sure won't be as long as it's in the spirit of humor, which that act on Red Faces certainly was.




So, as long as it is in the spirit of a 'joke' it is ok to be racist?

The Black and White Minstrel Show (and this skit was very reminiscent of those shows) was cancelled in 1967 in Britain because it was deemed offensive to show people with blackened faces behaving in a sterotypical manner.  Forty years later, Australia still thinks it is OK? 

The words 'white' and 'black' are not racist terms btw.


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## drsmith (8 October 2009)

Watching the show last night I enjoyed it but it's not somthing I would watch every week. I was only ever an occasional viewer of the show when it used to be on weekly.

HCJ was clearly a poor choice of judge for a Red Faces act like the MJ one.


----------



## Happy (8 October 2009)

Prospector said:


> ....
> 
> The words 'white' and 'black' are not racist terms btw.






Maybe in Australia, as one Australian had to bend over backwards and shower non white US bar tender with countless apologies for ordering: "Short black" coffee.

Apparently over there you ask for: Coffee with no milk.


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

Happy said:


> Maybe in Australia, as one Australian had to bend over backwards and shower non white US bar tender with countless apologies for ordering: "Short black" coffee.
> 
> Apparently over there you ask for: Coffee with no milk.




Try asking for a short black in the Congo where the Pygmies reside.
You certainly get some dark looks, errrr concerned looks.


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## Happy (8 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Try asking for a short black in the Congo where the Pygmies reside.
> You certainly get some dark looks, errrr concerned looks.




How true.

Going along the vine, will probably get concerned look asking morbidly obese waiter/waitress what is fat content of served dish, and definitely will have to run after asking:

What is your diet, as I would like to avoid your problems?

Going back to HeyH it’s S, this little episode is effectively talk of the whole globe now.

What a joke that is.


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

Happy said:


> How true.
> 
> Going along the vine, will probably get concerned look asking morbidly obese waiter/waitress what is fat content of served dish, and definitely will have to run after asking:
> 
> ...




Totally ridiculous, the Jackson 5 are colored aren't they ? so what are people saying, that black people shouldn't be black ? If you parodied Pavarotti you'd put a fat man outfit on, is that fattist ?


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 October 2009)

Prospector said:


> Actually, Michael's skin problems started with vitiligo. Thanks wiki for this: _The most notable symptom of vitiligo is depigmentation of patches of skin that occurs on the extremities. Although patches are initially small, they often enlarge and change shape. When skin lesions occur, they are most prominent on the face, hands and wrists. Depigmentation is particularly noticeable around body orifices, such as the mouth, eyes, nostrils, genitalia and umbilicus. Some lesions have hyperpigmentation around the edges.[2] In regards to psychological damage, vitiligo can have a significant effect on the mental health of a patient.[3] Psychological stress may even result in an individual becoming more susceptible to vitiligo. Patients who are stigmatised for their condition may experience depression and similar mood disorders.[4]._
> 
> 
> 
> So, as long as it is in the spirit of a 'joke' it is ok to be racist?



Maybe, but I'd guess that 99% of people in the Western world thought that MJ changed colour deliberately via cosmetic surgery of some type. That thinking is, or at least was, so common that anything suggesting any other reason is very much in the conspiracy theory category in my opinion, and I think most would agree there. 

I've _never_ heard it even hinted at that it was a natural condition, but I've heard more public people than I can remember make comments about what they and most people assumed to be intentional. Your suggestion that it was natural is the first time I've ever heard the idea.

I saw the show and it didn't even occur to me that it had anything to do with black people or race. It was obviously just another in the line of thousands who have mocked Michael Jackson and in particular his physical appearance over the years. His dancing, hair, face, skin, sexuality and just about every other aspect of his life was on the receiving end of countless jokes over more than two decades.

Acceptable? Maybe not. But the issue is about people mocking a celebrity's appearance, not race, as I see it. If it wasn't for the safety aspect, they'd probably have set their hair on fire too, another thing MJ was widely mocked for years after it happened.

I note that the same act has been on the show before and, to my understanding, attracted no negative attention the first time around. But then just about everyone was mocking MJ's appearance back then so perhaps it was more obvious to all concerned what it was about.


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## Agentm (8 October 2009)

mr burns

your backing the act then?

seeing nothing wrong there i guess?


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## Prospector (8 October 2009)

So, a cultural history lesson.

The issue with the skit is that they had put on blackface - not brown as in the MJ band, but black. Google 'Blackface' and you will see what the fuss is all about.  One source from Virginia US:

_In the minstrel show white entertainers put on blackface and "imitated" or "caricatured" slaves in the South and ex-slaves in the North. _

Probably they did not know what it meant when they put on 'blackface' but Harry Connick did and he was offended.


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## Agentm (8 October 2009)

well done prospector..


someone with some understanding of racism i see..

yes it was offensive, yes it was wrong and totally insensitive

blackface was last seen in places like australia and the uk in the late 70's..

seems a few here dont understand what it is still,, pretty sad really.

bringing back a 70's show should not entail turning back the clock to racism..


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## Duckman#72 (8 October 2009)

Agentm said:


> yes it was offensive, yes it was wrong and totally insensitive
> 
> blackface was last seen in places like australia and the uk in the late 70's..
> 
> ...




Political correctness gone absolutely mad.

The negative reaction to this skit indicates that we are still decades away from racism being eliminated from society. AND we will never eliminate it from society while we have overly sensitive white people telling black society what they should be offended by.

Get to the point people - what was offensive about the skit? 

Was it the fact that some black and white guys painted themselves black? Or was it that the skit made black guys look buffoonish? Or is it just because the English stopped broadcasting the Black and White Minstrel Show back in 1967 and therefore the skit must be offensive? 

Pure and simply - it was an impersonation. 

If I was to impersonate a successful LA rapper from today .......I would wear an oversized tracksuit, put some large sunnies on, grab a heap of gold jewelery, cover my face with black shoe polish and say...."Yo #@$% my momma". Is that racist or simply a reasonable impersonation of a current day artist?  

Prospector, are you really trying to tell us that there would not have been the uproar if they had of chosen Dark Brown Nugget instead of Black Nugget shoe polish?
Duckman


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

Agentm said:


> mr burns
> 
> your backing the act then?
> 
> seeing nothing wrong there i guess?




Yep nothing wrong with it, why do you assume that black face is making fun of black people, it's just impersonation.

The comedy is in the impersonation, same as a fat guy impersonating Pavarotti.

It's the complainers that are racist because it is *THEY* who see being black as bad.

I dont think being black is something to be ashamed of but the people who see something wrong with this obviously do - *shame on YOU.*


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## Prospector (8 October 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Prospector, are you really trying to tell us that there would not have been the uproar if they had of chosen Dark Brown Nugget instead of Black Nugget shoe polish?  Duckman




Yes.  I think it would have been far less symbolic of deep-seated racism. Because then they would have been doing a true parody of the Jackson Five.  By putting on black polish, they were doing (as I said, most likely very innocently) blackface, which is the 'hallmark' of comedy which is based on slavery and associated buffoon like behaviours and mannerisms.

I still dont like white people imitating black people, but to be consistent I also dont like the odd comedy where black people have donned white makeup to imitate white people.  I dont like it, but it doesnt carry the same racial undertones as this skit does.

Mr Burns, the issue is not about being black as such, the issue is that blackface (painting your face black) is how comedy shows parodied Afro-American slavery.  It has nothing to do with being ashamed about being black!  And as none of us know the cultural and racial origins of the people in this forum you cant really say 'shame on you'.


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## overit (8 October 2009)

Hypocrisy! 

Go watch the movie white chicks where the Wayans brothers (african american) played white girls throughout the movie! PLenty of stereo typical role play of both white culture and gender. Oh buts that different.


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## Prospector (8 October 2009)

Like I said in the post above yours Overit, I dont like black people imitating white people either.

The specific issue is that blackface has its origins in the history of black slavery and the parody of slavery, and that is why blackening faces (as opposed to applying brown makeup) is offensive.  If they had worn makeup that exactly matched the faces of the Jackson 5 then none of this controversy would have occurred.  But they didn't; they did the full on 'Black and White Minstrel' stuff.


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## moXJO (8 October 2009)

I think it was cringe worthy and pretty backward, but the guys didn't intend for any malice.  Enslaving blacks and treating them as second class citizens in the past (not that distant either), then taking the piss out of them in this day and age might touch a few nerves. Last time I checked whites were the ones oppressing and still have better opportunities. So there’s a little bit of difference when it’s vice versa.

We do kick up a stink if someone takes the piss out of us especially if they are Muslim 

I didn't think it was to big a deal but like I said I cringed when I saw it as you could see the fallout a mile away. I'm surprised they put it on.


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

Apparently it's a big deal in the US, we just don't have the same attitude toward it.


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## chode84 (8 October 2009)

Come on guys,  Harry has a point. This would outrage the Americans. They are way more civilized than us...


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## trainspotter (8 October 2009)

Dave Chapelle springs to mind. I remember watching him on his show being a white supremacist. I also remember in the same TV show that he had a white slave and his black "bruddas" beat the white guy to a pulp.

The video below is about Dave Chapelle commentating about Michael Jackson. Not a word said in the media. If you are offended easily then do not click on the link. Also disregard if black and white offends you as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEHVR9Hj_b0&feature=related


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## sam76 (8 October 2009)

chode84 said:


> Come on guys,  Harry has a point. This would outrage the Americans. They are way more civilized than us...





Well put!


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## Duckman#72 (8 October 2009)

Prospector said:


> Yes.  I think it would have been far less symbolic of deep-seated racism. Because then they would have been doing a true parody of the Jackson Five.




Hi Prospector,

This indicates that you did not have a problem with the content of the skit, only the faces being jet black? If that is the case, aren't we all being overly sensitive? Don't people need to do/say/act in an offensive manner to be considered racist? 

If they do the same dance moves, and sing the same song, and wear the same clothes but wear dark brown boot polish instead - you then consider the skit a parody! It is a bloody fine line.

I accept and acknowledge the history of the blackface performers, however I'll be damned if I'll be told I'm a racist by someone from the US (from New Orleans of all places). From my experience being in the US, Australia doesn't even get close on the level of racial tension and degrading behaviour.    

Duckman


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## vicb (8 October 2009)

I didnt watch the show and its not my style of show but each to their own.
From what I saw on the news and online the Michael Jackson skit was alot  funnier then the Abu Ghraib jail show that the US troops did.
At least Harry can be glad that he is not from a racist backward place like Australia and can be back home in the good old USA.


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## Prospector (8 October 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Prospector,
> This indicates that you did not have a problem with the content of the skit, only the faces being jet black? If that is the case, aren't we all being overly sensitive? Don't people need to do/say/act in an offensive manner to be considered racist?
> Duckman




Yes Duckman, the issue is really with the blackface - the dance movements and jiggles were part of the Jackson 5 routine and if they had been properly made up (brown face not black) then while it still would have been a crap performance, it certainly would not have raised the ire it has. The blackface on its own constitutes racial slur because of its historical origins.  I guess most Australians dont know this



Duckman#72 said:


> I accept and acknowledge the history of the blackface performers, however I'll be damned if I'll be told I'm a racist by someone from the US (from New Orleans of all places). From my experience being in the US, Australia doesn't even get close on the level of racial tension and degrading behaviour.



But Duckman, you are calling everyone from the US racists then?  Remember, the Civil War (North versus South) was fought over Slavery and the death toll from that event was huge.  Of course there are racists in the US, but dont really think it is fair to put Harry in this bag.  And a lot of US performers were wrapt when Obama was elected.


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## $20shoes (8 October 2009)

Lot of people tut tutting...social bloggers can be a modern day lynch mob. 

I would hasten to add that despite the insensitivity of the act, we shouldn't let our social mores homogenise and cleanse our differences. 
If the intent is to subjugate and ridicule, then rascism is inherent. If we are simply imitating for the sake of being funny, we may be guilty of a cheap and offensive laugh, but its no "white Australia" policy..

 America has an unusual moral compass - not a wrong one...it just seems to swing violently on some issues, and remain confoundingly without outrage on racial indignations performed in the name of god or their new fear thee "Old Testament God" - National Security.


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## Duckman#72 (8 October 2009)

Prospector said:


> Yes Duckman, the issue is really with the blackface - the dance movements and jiggles were part of the Jackson 5 routine and if they had been properly made up (brown face not black) then while it still would have been a crap performance, it certainly would not have raised the ire it has.




It was on "Red Faces" for goodness sake Prospector - if you are looking for high quality art and culture - look elsewhere. I hope people are not branding the show racist just because they don't like the show's humour.



Prospector said:


> But Duckman, you are calling everyone from the US racists then?  Remember, the Civil War (North versus South) was fought over Slavery and the death toll from that event was huge.  Of course there are racists in the US, but dont really think it is fair to put Harry in this bag.  And a lot of US performers were wrapt when Obama was elected.




Of course I am not calling everyone from the US racist Prospector. Although I thought Darryl handled everything very well, it was almost as if we (as Australians) were apologising to the US (through Harry). From what I have seen the US has far more deep rooted racial problems than Australia - particularly in the deep south where Harry hails from. 

If Australians are not meaning offence by applying black makeup, don't know the origins of the offensive behaviour, and most importantly are not taking offence by the behaviour....is it then offensive racist behaviour? 

Duckman


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## insider (8 October 2009)

I think Harry is just worried about looking like and idiot... Too late for Harry as he brought the race card as that didn't cross anyone else's mind...


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

insider said:


> I think Harry is just worried about looking like and idiot... Too late for Harry as he brought the race card as that didn't cross anyone else's mind...





Harry looked as if he was suffering from Michael Buble's success.


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## nunthewiser (8 October 2009)

um

the jackson 5 were black 

micheal jackson was sort of white 

what was wrong with the skit ? they imitated them to the best of there ability . in costume AND the music and dancing

i cant see any racial undertones to this matter 

are we going to have a fuss over elvis impersonaters next ? im pretty sure there is black ones pretending to be white somewhere.

what about pantomines and plays ? ,....... pretty sure often a female will play the male leading role and vica versa for comedy value ...... is this sexual predudice?

the world needs to lighten the hell up ( hahahaha no pun intended )


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## MrBurns (8 October 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> um
> 
> the jackson 5 were black




Yes good pick up Nun, the Jackson 5 were obviously racist against blacks too.
You just can't trust anyone these days.


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## chode84 (8 October 2009)

I blame globalisation and the internet.


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## Prospector (8 October 2009)

People - to summarise

The issue with the skit is the black shoe polish. That is Blackface and that is recognised as having negative racial origins and is considered a racial slur to black people. 
Just because it is on Red Faces does not give us the excuse to condone racist behaviour. 
The group themselves did not realise the offense that would be caused by using black polish but the producers would have. 
Had they used makeup that was brown we would not be discussing this. The Jacksons skin colouring is brown not black. 
Just because people here do not see the racial undertones does not mean that many significant others have not been offended. 
There was a US guest on the show so they cannot hide behind the 'but this is only seen in Australia' excuse. 

I think that is it for now.


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## darkside (8 October 2009)

Happy said:


> Political correctness at its best.
> 
> What I am waiting for now is somebody brave enough to take to court somebody for making racist remark like: ‘White fella’.




Ahh so true, political correctness is the presumption that you can pick up a turd from the clean end.


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## Smurf1976 (8 October 2009)

OK, so they bought the wrong colour shoe polish. Qutie likely they, like me, had no idea as to the significance of black instead of brown.

It all seems like a fairly honest mistake to me. Surely nobody could argue there was anything wrong with them using brown - the Jackson 5 were certainly brown.

One thing I can't take seriously though is the USA references. Given the shocking crimes against humanity committed by that country over the decades, it doesn't exactly have too much credibility over anything. Those are real crimes against real people, not an amateur comedy act on a TV show.


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## cuttlefish (8 October 2009)

I just can't believe that Australia is so devoid of originality and talent that a rehashed variety show and performers from 20+ years ago tops the ratings with this sort of stale garbage.


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## Tink (8 October 2009)

I didnt watch the show, but I think if you are going to invite an international guest, do abit of homework before hand.

Seems Daryl and crew handled it all really well..

We arent in the 70s anymore, times have changed..


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## Julia (8 October 2009)

I didn't see it.  However, I do remember as a kid watching on TV "The Black and White Minstrel Show" on which there were a lot of people dressed in black and white from my vague memory, but with black painted faces.

It meant nothing more to us than some good old time music.  I think we used to tap dance to some of it!

But then, the whole concept of racism never entered our heads.  NZ had white people and Maoris.  So there was a different skin colour.  Meant absolutely nothing.  We have all become so damn self conscious and precious, instead of ascribing to skin colour the total unimportance it deserves.


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## Smurf1976 (9 October 2009)

I wonder if all those people outraged by that Red Faces act would be equally outraged if it had mocked homosexuals* instead?

Racisim and homophobia are both nothing more than an excuse for unjustified hatred. But I'd be pretty confident that many of those crying foul over alleged racism would find some way to justify their own homophobia.

*Or any other minority group which continues to face economic and general discrimination today.


----------



## GumbyLearner (9 October 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> I wonder if all those people outraged by that Red Faces act would be equally outraged if it had mocked homosexuals* instead?
> 
> Racisim and homophobia are both nothing more than an excuse for unjustified hatred. But I'd be pretty confident that many of those crying foul over alleged racism would find some way to justify their own homophobia.
> 
> *Or any other minority group which continues to face economic and general discrimination today.




Agreed Smurf.

It would be great if Harry could add his voice of opposition to the attacks on Commuters who use Connex Trains. 



"They're going to fix that spelling right!"

I would prefer the word 'spelling' to be replaced with 'security'.

Another innocent commuter unlawfully wounded and robbed.


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Yes good pick up Nun, the Jackson 5 were obviously racist against blacks too.
> You just can't trust anyone these days.




one thing is always certain about racism, is that those who express it, laugh with it, and support it, dont feel it nor get it.. blackface is not around because of the racism it expresses, clearly those who supported it before continue to justify themselves without even researching what it actually was..  they just dont try to get it, and usually say things like

i didnt think it was racist.. 

some minimise their justification for racism by seeing humor in it by laughing and making further jokes about the person or race itself

when it clearly is racism, and it deeply offends, your not going to win any arguements here on that issue..


its those whom its expressed against that feel it and know it. and clearly it does not concern those who like seeing it, think its funny and openly support it..

channel nine have apologised.. 

they know it was deeply offensive

its obvious through the expressions here on this thread that some are very much at home enjoying blackface.

lol

i guarantee those supporting it wouldnt be doing two things

1/ performing that skit on any black neighborhood in any community where those whom the racism is directed at live

2/ stand around those performers and cheer loudly and support their act in that community where the racism is directed  at

blackface fortunately made its way off the screens in the late 70's in the uk and australia..  

clearly it still has appeal to a few


----------



## dbcok (9 October 2009)

I was driving across northern Vic yesterday listening to Melbourne radio,which station I do not know.
A  shock-jock called "Neil" was comparing the Hey Hey skit to Americans ridiculing the Australian accent.
I would have thought that there were miles of difference.
Like has been said,many just do not get it.


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## wayneL (9 October 2009)

Agentm, dbcok,

Can you please share with us what you think racism is?

Can you please explain, slowly and clearly, why the skit was racist? 

Thanks


----------



## Tink (9 October 2009)

I dont think it was intentional, but as I said, times have changed

*Channel Nine apologises for Hey, Hey it's Saturday blackface Michael Jackson sketch *



> Reprising its act from 20 years ago, the group's Jackson Jive gig outraged guest judge Harry Connick Jr, who gave the act a zero.
> 
> He said if the skit had appeared on US television the broadcast would have been terminated.
> 
> ...


----------



## $20shoes (9 October 2009)

What do you all think about the very suppression of our voices actually giving racism the power, the violence, the viciousness?? There is a very strong case that by actually censuring, you empower a private racism. 

This was from Lenny Bruce in the late 50s. Some may find this deeply offensive, in which case you would have missed the point - 

....Then the relief, the notice of kikes, spics, miks, guineas, etc., diffusing the cruelty. Finally the moral, the call to resolution, the fable about the public use of taboo epithets in order to destroy their wounding power, and we see this routine is as much about the conventional moral code of forbidden public language, the "zug-gornisht" or *say nothing*, as it is about racism, even as it uses that power of taboo to shock and manipulate the audience.

_By the way, are there any ******s here tonight?

"What did he say?  Are there any ******s here tonight?

Jesus Christ is that cruel.  Does he have to get that low for laughs?  Wow!"

Have I ever talked about the schvartzes when the schvartzes had gone home,

Or spoken about the moulanyans when they'd left,

Or placated some southerner by absence of voice

When he ranted or raved about ******-******-******?

Are there any ******s here tonight?

I know that one ****** who works here, I see him back there.

Oh, there's two ******s, customers, and, aha!

Between those two ******s sits one kike, thank God for the kike.

Uh, two kikes, that's two kikes, and three ******s and one spic.

One spic, two, three spics.  One mik.

One mic, one spic, one hick thick funky spunky boogie.

And there's another kike, three kikes.

Three kikes, one guinea, one greaseball.

Three greaseballs, two guineas.

Two guineas, one hunky funky lace-curtain Irish mick.

That mick, spic, hunky funky boogey.

Two guineas plus three greaseballs and four boogies makes usually three spics,

Minus two yid spic polack funky spunky polacks.

Five more ******s!  Five more ******s! 

I pass with six ******s and eight miks and four spics.

The point?  That the word's suppression gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness.

If President Kennedy got on television and said,

"Tonight I'd like to introduce all the ******s in my cabinet,"

And he yelled, "******-******-******-******-******-******-******" at every ****** he saw, "boogey-boogey-boogey-boogey-boogey, ******-******-******-******,"

'till ****** didn't mean anything any more, 'till ****** lost its meaning,
you'd never make any four-year old ****** cry when he came home from school_


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## $20shoes (9 October 2009)

okay that word can be googled if you cant guess...imagine trying to get that routine on tv...even thought its attempting to disempower rascism


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## shortlist (9 October 2009)

$20shoes said:


> okay that word can be googled if you cant guess...imagine trying to get that routine on tv...even thought its attempting to disempower rascism




Posters might be interested that just yesterday the great Saturday Night Live in the US had a massive send-up of Barack Obama where he was played by a blacked-up white actor called Fred Armisen who made him look like a buffoon. One wonders was Joseph H. Connick, Jr. made of that and whether he's lecturing Americans on how racist they all are?


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Agentm, dbcok,
> 
> Can you please share with us what you think racism is?
> 
> ...




wayne. how does no sound?

if your unsure what racism is then perhaps research it. 

if you cant understand what blackface is, why this form of theater deeply offended, then i think you could try and research it... lol.. and if you read the research link through to the bottom you will see that this episode on hey hey is now entrenched in the cyber history of blackface.. 

i recall some years ago, that other buffoon, bert newton, was presenting the logies, and standing next to him was the greatest boxer and one of the elite sporting heroes and icons, Muhammad ali.. then during the presentation said something like " i like the boy"

lol

you could have heard a pin drop.. the champ, actually resisted punching the clown out right there and then and did not walk out.. but it was immediately evident to bert that ali wsa fuming and did all he could to stutter his way out of that one

bert never understood, due to his ignorance, how racist that was. and imho was a lucky man indeed to be one of the few men on the planet who got away with insulting a legend like him..

after winning his gold medal in rome for the usa, ali wore his medal everywhere, he was deeply proud of his accomplishment as any young kid would at that age.. he was refused service at a Louisville restaurant.That incident prompted him to throw the medal into the Ohio River.


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## wayneL (9 October 2009)

Agentm said:


> wayne. how does no sound?




Thanks for the link and the condescending reply Agent. Pretty much the response I'd expect from some loudmouth struggling to link a particular behaviour to bona fide racism.

That's pretty much my understanding of racism (the wiki article). 

I understand the sensitivity. I know a *little* bit about prejudice, having been picked on at school for being a four eyed pimply faced Yank. I have the dental crowns on my front teeth as a daily reminder.

FWIW I would never have done that skit in case it caused offence, but being offensive and being actually *racist* can be two totally different things. I have brown friends. My best friend is a Indian Muslim (but fairly secular) as I have said a few times on here. I have discussed this issue at length with them.

My view is a result of these conversations and I believe that though it may have been a bit offensive, (if someone *chose* to be offended) it was not *racist*.

There was no attempt to disadvantage anyone in the skit at all.

The furore is a step too far and as damaging to our culture as true racism.

That's my opinion. The pendulum has swung too far.


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

shortlist said:


> Posters might be interested that just yesterday the great Saturday Night Live in the US had a massive send-up of Barack Obama where he was played by a blacked-up white actor called Fred Armisen who made him look like a buffoon. One wonders was Joseph H. Connick, Jr. made of that and whether he's lecturing Americans on how racist they all are?




hey shortlist.. i watched that show the other night, i wanted to see if the show had picked up any.. its sure has gone downhill..

watched about three sessions in, then turned it off.. i was hoping for entertainment.  i wasnt impressed with the obama send up, it was not at all funny.. none of it was..  

it sure got a mention in the papers, like the washington post, seems both saturday night live shows were treading into similar territory, one clearly using blackface and the other heading in that direction..


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Thanks for the link and the condescending reply Agent. Pretty much the response I'd expect from some loudmouth struggling to link a particular behaviour to bona fide racism.
> 
> That's pretty much my understanding of racism (the wiki article).
> 
> ...





wayne, thanks for the reply.. and gladly we are all entitled to know and act with a loud voice against what is a very offensive part of theater history toward the black american community. and its great to see that you have learned a little about it and followed the links, and understood what blackface is and how offensive it is.

sorry your offended that you think i have been condescending to you because you feel i have to teach you what racism is just because you demand it.

at least i offered links

i know plenty of racist americans (yanks as you call them), who all have brown friends and mexican friends and all types of friends..

good to see your interested enough to try and understand the topic better..

wayne, you familiar with a american lady i deeply admire, probably more than anyone living on this planet?   jane elliot?


----------



## waza1960 (9 October 2009)

The thing I find intriguing is that Hey Hey as well as others seem to show the singer Kamal and other Indians in a racist light much worse than the skit talked about and yet no comment.                                                        Is this because the Indians take this as humour or are too busy improving their lives .                                                                                         Does Kamarls comment I think its something along the line of ...........*thats so unkind *,as evidence that he is uncomfortable with his treatment or how he is portrayed ?


----------



## waza1960 (9 October 2009)

> I didn't see it. However, I do remember as a kid watching on TV "The Black and White Minstrel Show" on which there were a lot of people dressed in black and white from my vague memory, but with black painted faces.
> 
> It meant nothing more to us than some good old time music. I think we used to tap dance to some of it!
> 
> But then, the whole concept of racism never entered our heads. NZ had white people and Maoris. So there was a different skin colour. Meant absolutely nothing. We have all become so damn self conscious and precious, instead of ascribing to skin colour the total unimportance it deserves.



Totally agree


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

waza..

what this show is bring up, and clearly its doing it well, is showing that doing live comedy on the same formula of the 70's, where these issues that you bring were tolerated,  are far less tolerated now.

its a great point. equally i bet (i didnt watch the show but i assume this) if jackie mcdonald was on the show they would have played the ole "folks are dumb where i come from " melody,, i recall she had to mime it in the past shows,, all those examples of really bad taste and degrading comedy really needed to be dead and buried a long time ago (and forgotten imho)

i am not a fan of hey hey one bit, and i know if the jackie mcdonald stunt was played my wife would be offended, degrading women as dumb is not comedy..

each for their own,,, i hear it rated highly.. so well done for hey hey in demonstrating how far australia has progressed..


----------



## wayneL (9 October 2009)

Agent,

To be fair, there still hasn't, to my mind, been demosntrated how the skit was *racist* as defined by either the dictionary, or the wiki link you posted. It's too easy to scream racism over any perceived sleight involving a minority. 

However, I'll jump up and down about racism with the best of them. I've lost friends in Geraldton over how the Aborigines are discussed and treated. (Where there is a large population) I'm for giving anyone a fair go, no matter what they are in terms of race, nationality, background, whatever. 

I enjoy differences. I think they make relationships interesting.

Equally, I'll dig my toes in and resist the race card being played inappropriately as I think it has been in this case.

Re Jane Elliott - almost single handedly jolted us whitefella from our culturally ingrained (fair dinkum) racism.

Fantastic lady.


----------



## Happy (9 October 2009)

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/873452/kamahl-hits-back-at-hey-hey



> "Out of the six of us, only one is Anglo-Celtic Australian. I’m Sri Lankan-Australian, there’s an Indian Australian, a Greek Australian, an Irish-Italian Australian and a Lebanese Australian. We’re all Australian," he wrote on website The Punch.





Pity there were no African-Americans, if nothing else could be taken out of it, at least they would not have to paint their faces.


Otherwise, hey hey I've got enough of this black tea storm in a white teacup.


----------



## Timmy (9 October 2009)

I note in this discussion of racism and racists there are some overt capitalists here on the thread.  

Capitals are really great, some of my best friends use them.  They are invaluable in many ways, such as helping to see where a sentence starts.  And putting one at the beginning of someone's name is also a nice mark of respect.

So let's dispense with the capitalism here folks, give them a fair go, and embrace them for their true worth.


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Agent,
> 
> To be fair, there still hasn't, to my mind, been demosntrated how the skit was *racist* as defined by either the dictionary, or the wiki link you posted. It's too easy to scream racism over any perceived sleight involving a minority.
> 
> ...




thanks for the reply wayne

i wont discuss my upbringing, but i can assure you i deeply understand everything jane elliott teaches, some like her have got inspiration from the great martin luther king, some of us have had the misfortune to live what she is so inspired to work against, as you know she also advocates hard on the oppression of women

i dont think harry overreacted to what he saw, if he gave the act a 10 i think he would have been condemned by all of america


i think the apology was justified, and the demanding of one was also justified.

i disagree with sommers and his view thats is a storm in a tea cup..

its a nice debate, and hey hey's so called comedy is bringing up the past and throwing it right out there, this time the issue of what is comedy and what is offensive can be debated and i think it may very well bury hey hey if sommers doesnt change his tune..  but perhaps it may bring a lesson to those who are insensitive to what offends


----------



## dbcok (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Agentm, dbcok,
> 
> Can you please share with us what you think racism is?
> 
> ...




This harks back to the days when negroes were always portrayed as figures of hillarity.Never as intelligent as whites and mainly for amusement.
Remember those old films with overweight negro child-minding Mamas and dumb Butlers.I can understand why this is seen as return to the old days.
And if this skit is offensive to black populations this is racist.If it is not, so be it?
The outcry suggests that it is.
Try even making a joke about concentration camps on the Australian media and it is seen as offensive to an ethnic group.
I understand where Kamahl is coming from.If you are not on the receiving end it is hard for many to understand.
I typed this as slowly and clearly as I was capable of,so I hope that you understand my point of view(humour)


----------



## ROE (9 October 2009)

I think the whole culture is ignorant of the fact this sort of act isnt
on regardless how it is stage..just because it's comedy it's ok?

I see we do this all the time...put on some really bad acts and think it's
ok because it's comedy or we didnt mean it or it's all for the fun no harm intended...we need to wake up and catch on...

and the Kamahl remark, that is offensive.

ignorant is not an excuse

Just imagine your kids was being tease at school and everyone has a laugh is it ok?


----------



## waza1960 (9 October 2009)

Maybe the whole things a setup by Ch 9 's PR people .You would have to admit the publicity is priceless for the show


----------



## Agentm (9 October 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Maybe the whole things a setup by Ch 9 's PR people .You would have to admit the publicity is priceless for the show




if you know people in that arena, and associated with it, you would say its their culture and cultural insensitivity which they have always had (imho its part and parcel of the organisation) that has led them to this place they now are trying their hardest to swim out of..


----------



## Julia (9 October 2009)

dbcok said:


> .If you are not on the receiving end it is hard for many to understand.



This is an important point.  We white people are fond of commenting that racism in the form of black people making derisive comments about white doesn't receive the condemnation that we're discussing on this thread.

I'd say that's because we are not the group which has been discriminated against, hurt or abused, so we simply don't have the same sensitivities.

It's easy to be magnanimous from a position of power.

That said, I'm still of the view that many people of all colours, political persuasions, and sexual preferences will go through life looking for insults toward them.   I pretty much believe that most people will be treated as they expect to be treated.  If someone acts with integrity and in an open fashion, chances are they will be treated accordingly.

And Agent M, I might be wrong, but my reading of Wayne's request to you for your definition of racism wasn't an indication that he himself didn't have an understanding of what it was, but rather was attempting to understand just what it means to you.  I would have been similarly interested in a genuine reply from you, rather than what was a rather patronising and dismissive response.


----------



## moXJO (9 October 2009)

Dressing up like barack obama is one thing, he actually resembled the man he was taking the piss out of. But only one of the Jackson jive, looked like the Jackson five. The others were dressed in a stereo typical degrading fashion. In no way did they resemble the Jackson five.

 However, I find it much funnier to watch now when they country is in an uproar. I like the part where we offend the American, and cause international controversy in under 2mins. Thanks Hey Hey


----------



## wayneL (9 October 2009)

moXJO said:


> Dressing up like barack obama is one thing, he actually resembled the man he was taking the piss out of. But only one of the Jackson jive, looked like the Jackson five. The others were dressed in a stereo typical degrading fashion. In no way did they resemble the Jackson five.
> 
> However, I find it much funnier to watch now when they country is in an uproar. I like the part where we offend the American, and cause international controversy in under 2mins. Thanks Hey Hey




I only saw a short excerpt over here in the UK... yep made the news here too.

1/ Who gives a crap about the pompous Yank? We nee do be concerned about how it interplays with Aussie culture, not the stinking cesspit of  hypocrisy that is dichotomic America, where racism is far more open and overt in most places. The thin veil of equality is totally laughable there. (though impressive in making the political mistake of voting in Obama). Once again Australia displays it's inherent cultural cringe that is still hiding behind the (American style) jingoism.

2/ Genuine question - Why was it degrading?


----------



## MrBurns (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> 2/ Genuine question - Why was it degrading?




It was only degrading if you believe black people are buffoons and are laughed at and need protection from that.... and thats not the case.

If someone came up to an Englishman and was telling everyone not to laugh at him you'd actually be insulting him.

Harry said something like 'we spent hundreds of years trying not to make black people look like buffoons"

Well done Harry, in other words they are buffoons and you're just trying to protect them ROFL

It wasnt particularly funny but the music was good, the audience wasnt happy when they were gonged they were just getting into it.


----------



## Prospector (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Agent,
> 
> To be fair, there still hasn't, to my mind, been demosntrated how the skit was *racist* as defined by either the dictionary, or the wiki link you posted. It's too easy to scream racism over any perceived sleight involving a minority. .




Hi Wayne, I posted similar before but I will try explain why painted BLACK faces is racist.  It also explains why those seemingly harmless Balck and White Minstrel shows perpetuated the racist theme and using the beloved wiki again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

_Blackface, in the narrow sense, is a style of theatrical makeup that originated in the United States, used to take on the appearance of certain *archetypes of American racism, especially those of the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon ".* (my bold for you Mr Burns)
Blackface was an important performance tradition in the American theater for roughly 100 years beginning around 1830. It quickly became popular overseas, particularly so in Britain, where the tradition lasted even longer than in the US, occurring on primetime TV as late as 1978[2] and 1981.[3] In both the United States and Britain, blackface was most commonly used in the minstrel performance tradition, but it predates that tradition, and it survived long past the heyday of the minstrel show. White blackface performers in the past used burnt cork and later greasepaint or shoe polish to blacken their skin and exaggerate their lips, often wearing woolly wigs, gloves, tailcoats, or ragged clothes to complete the transformation. Later, black artists also performed in blackface.

*Stereotypes embodied in the stock characters of blackface minstrelsy played a significant role in cementing and proliferating racist images, attitudes and perceptions worldwide. In some quarters, the caricatures that were the legacy of blackface persist to the present day and are a cause of ongoing controversy.*_

It is an interesting read.  




dbcok said:


> I understand where Kamahl is coming from.If you are not on the receiving end it is hard for many to understand.
> I typed this as slowly and clearly as I was capable of,so I hope that you understand my point of view(humour)




Yup.  And to be honest, I dont think of us WASP's have the right to say that as they weren't offended, therefore it is OK!


----------



## moXJO (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> I only saw a short excerpt over here in the UK... yep made the news here too.
> 
> 1/ Who gives a crap about the pompous Yank? We nee do be concerned about how it interplays with Aussie culture, not the stinking cesspit of  hypocrisy that is dichotomic America, where racism is far more open and overt in most places. The thin veil of equality is totally laughable there. (though impressive in making the political mistake of voting in Obama). Once again Australia displays it's inherent cultural cringe that is still hiding behind the (American style) jingoism.
> 
> 2/ Genuine question - Why was it degrading?




1/ The look on his face was the funniest part

2/
	

		
			
		

		
	







Because it’s an era gone by when we use to send up blacks and make them look stupid for entertainment purposes. Then everyone in every day life thinks its ok as it's only a joke and takes the piss as well.
 Being the only dark skinned kid in primary school I took a lot of ****. I remember when abo jokes were all the rage and I copped that as well (not aboriginal decent either). It was pretty bad during the early 80's imo with some real rednecks around. When it gets to the point where a kid wishes he looks like the white kids, something has gone too far. 

I remember two cops were fired because they dressed up exactly the same but had a noose around their necks at a party. So at least at some point a line is drawn. When you’re the majority you just view it as funny, and might take the piss out of a dark skinned mate. When you are targeted your whole life, piss taking or not you begin to roll your eyes. Televised events like this always end up with “Hey I saw you and your mates on TV". No problem there. But it can generally degenerate into something nastier when these views are left unchecked. Making it all right to do it on TV, leads to wider community acceptance. And there are enough redneck views in this country already.


 The original video was worse than this one. Did people find it funny because they looked so stupid dressed as jigaboo blacks and making comical movements? 
Or was it their highly polished wit?

On a side note I don't have a problem with it over all and think it's blown out of proportion. I know taking the piss is the Aussie way and have no problem with it. But I can see if you have been fighting a stereotypical view of your race for years on end how this might piss you off. It was a backwards thing to put on TV. But the bigger the spectacle the media makes out of it, the bigger the divide it will create.

Just to add; I don't think they intended it to go down that way at all (obviously). But surely someone must have seen this blowing up? Or are the producers that far behind they times?


----------



## wayneL (9 October 2009)

Well FWIW, I still don't see it, in itself, as degrading or racist, not in the slightest. *Everybody* in public life is subject to parody, from that Fabian Socialist tosspot KRudd down. (or should that be _up_?)

But I accept that others may use it in a racist manner, as moXJO highlights.

It would have been better had it not been done, but the race card should never have been pulled by the American hypocrite. How many negative racial stereotypes do we see on American TV _every single day_? 

Double standards there.


----------



## moXJO (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> It would have been better had it not been done, but the race card should never have been pulled by the American hypocrite. How many negative racial stereotypes do we see on American TV _every single day_?
> 
> Double standards there.




I'd say he was just protecting his entertainment career. Otherwise the US media would have eaten him up alive, along with a lot of his fans


----------



## MrBurns (9 October 2009)

Oh well on another note I believe they're giving Love thy Neighbour another run in the US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_gN7zlpnz8


----------



## Prospector (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Well FWIW, I still don't see it, in itself, as degrading or racist, not in the slightest. *Everybody* in public life is subject to parody, from that Fabian Socialist tosspot KRudd down. (or should that be _up_?).




Yes we see stereotypes, yes we see Rudd sent up, yes everyone is subject to parody, that is not the point.  Blackface negatively parodies an entire racial group, not simply a person who wears funny glasses or who says funny things.  If you cant see that, well?


----------



## waza1960 (9 October 2009)

Kamal has talked to Steve Price shown on SMH website saying that he has also being uncomfortable with Hey Heys' material


----------



## cuttlefish (9 October 2009)

I guess, as MoXJO has already pointed out pretty well in his posts, the question is why was it funny - what were people laughing at. 

What was the humour value that let it get past the red faces audition.  

Well to me it seemed pretty much because of the whole black and white minstrel effect and their whole attire with the 'gollywog' wigs and blackened faces looked very similar to the black and white minstrel sendups of old, and very little like the Jackson 5.  Its not as though the parody was particularly clever in any other respect, and the Kamahl cartoon stuck up in the middle of it just cements the viewpoint that it was the racial stereotype that was providing the humour value.

The main thing that annoyed me about it though is that its such flat, uninspired, lame television and in such poor taste.  The segment belongs back where the whole Hey Hey show belonged in the first place, which was in a video vault somewhere in the bowels of the Channel 9 store rooms to stay for eternity - preferably a damp one with an infestation of tape eating beatles.

Thanks channel 9 for presenting Australia to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour.


----------



## Prospector (9 October 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> Thanks channel 9 for presenting Australia to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour.




Oh, cuttlefish I could hug you! :


----------



## cuttlefish (9 October 2009)

Prospector said:


> Oh, cuttlefish I could hug you! :



:


----------



## moXJO (9 October 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Kamal has talked to Steve Price shown on SMH website saying that he has also being uncomfortable with Hey Heys' material




Once the media grabs a hold of something, they milk it for days. Next my fellow kiwis will be crying foul over years of sheep jokes

Australians just like poking fun at anyone and anything. PC is just confusing our simple way of life:

 But maybe from now on, only take the shoe polish out for private functions

Also no jokes about cyclists, sick kids, concentration camps or fatty bombars.


----------



## Happy (9 October 2009)

moXJO said:


> ....
> 
> Also no jokes about cyclists, sick kids, concentration camps or fatty bombars.






Not sure about cartoons on some subjects?

Suppose list will grow proportionately to reduction in skin thickness.


Wander if Blonde jokes are still a go?


----------



## greggy (9 October 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> I guess, as MoXJO has already pointed out pretty well in his posts, the question is why was it funny - what were people laughing at.
> 
> What was the humour value that let it get past the red faces audition.
> 
> ...




Talk about the media beating the whole story up.  
"Thanks channel 9 for presenting Australia to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour" Cuttlefish says.
IMO a complete over-reaction. Yes, the sketch was considered by many to be in poor taste, but do 6 well educated characters "..present  to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour"? Not at all. Was there any racism during the rest of the show? No. 

Other countries have much greater problems with racism than we do, racism  involving mass casualties. 
There are still far many more rednecks and racists in the Southern states of the US than over here. 
I take it Cuttlefish that you're not a fan of the show.  Overall, I enjoyed both episodes very much and hope that its back on air next year. If you don't like it, don't watch it.


----------



## scanspeak (9 October 2009)

Apparently Americans and some Aussies are offended because the act revived images of the insulting black-face depiction of black people (am I allowed to say black people?) half a century or more ago.

But what if you're not aware of "black-face" history? 
What if you've never seen or heard of the black and white minstrels? (I'd say that would apply to 90% of the Aussie population). Then it becomes about as insulting as a black person wearing white face paint. I certainly would not find that offensive. 
What counts is the INTENTION behind the act. The group members are all Michael Jackson FANS and were making a satirical tribute to him. If you want to satire someone with dark skin, isn't it completely logical to wear black makeup?

Once they realised it may have caused offence to the sensitive/PC/guilt-ridden Mr Connick, they made an appology. What more do people want?

Now if someone like, oh I dont know, TED DANSON, was to wear black-face, that certainlly could be construed as racist since he's an American and hence presumably aware of American blackface history and sentimentality.


----------



## Duckman#72 (9 October 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> I guess, as MoXJO has already pointed out pretty well in his posts, the question is why was it funny - what were people laughing at.
> 
> What was the humour value that let it get past the red faces audition.




What about the boy who smothered himself in Vegemite last week? Maybe that was somewhat racist? Luckily he used Vegemite which is only dark brown - had he used the very black looking Promite, it may well have led to another international incident!!  People were definately laughing at the kid....maybe they were thinking he was a black American slave making a buffoon of himself....come to think of it , the blacker he got, the more people laughed. Maybe the boy was just doing a silly skit......hang on ....I just called him..."the boy", now I'm being racist. If there are any Amercians reading this, I know that your countrymen take offense at that that term and so I apologise.




cuttlefish said:


> Thanks channel 9 for presenting Australia to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour.




Speak for yourself Cuttlefish, Australia has been presented in no such light. 

Another example of the exaggerated self-serving pontification being thrown up by the politically correct regulators, who time and time again feel the need to broadcast their superiority by demonstrating how difficult it is for them living with all the heathens here in Oz. 

A touch of the Germaine Greers about it...."Oh woe is me...I can't live in Australia for more than 6 months at a time for fear that I might fall to their culturally cringeworthy levels."    

There might be a touch of the redneck about me...but "We will decide what is racist in this country, just as we will decide what is offensive behaviour, what defines our sense of humour, and what we think is politically correct madness."

Duckman


----------



## Prospector (9 October 2009)

scanspeak said:


> Apparently Americans and some Aussies are offended because the act revived images of the insulting black-face depiction of black people (am I allowed to say black people?) half a century or more ago.
> 
> But what if you're not aware of "black-face" history? .




I agree, that is part of the problem, but the producers would have known.  Although apparently the group themselves was feeling uncomfortable prior to the act and kept asking 'Is this really ok to do this'  Dont you think that is telling you something?



scanspeak said:


> Then it becomes about as insulting as a black person wearing white face paint. I certainly would not find that offensive. .




Then you still do not understand what blackface is all about.  The history to painting white peoples' faces black comes from the United States as a consequence of the periods of black slavery and was explicitly used as a means of 'promoting' American racism, especially those of the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon ".  

There is nothing like this explicit use of 'white paint' if you like, in European History  (although there have obviously been white slaves throughout the centuries) as an expression of racism.



scanspeak said:


> Once they realised it may have caused offence to the sensitive/PC/guilt-ridden Mr Connick, they made an appology. What more do people want?.




Except that next day Darryl was dismissing it as a cultural difference.  His apology was a farce.


----------



## Prospector (9 October 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> What about the boy who smothered himself in Vegemite last week? Maybe that was somewhat racist? Luckily he used Vegemite which is only dark brown - had he used the very black looking Promite, it may well have led to another international incident!!




Was he trying to imitate someone or just make a mess?

I guess we are going to have to disagree on this one Mr D.  Perhaps my thoughts come from the fact that a close family member is considered black (not African American though).  And so just maybe I have some extra thoughts about what all this means.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 October 2009)

scanspeak said:


> Apparently Americans and some Aussies are offended because the act revived images of the insulting black-face depiction of black people (am I allowed to say black people?) half a century or more ago.
> 
> But what if you're not aware of "black-face" history?
> What if you've never seen or heard of the black and white minstrels? (I'd say that would apply to 90% of the Aussie population). Then it becomes about as insulting as a black person wearing white face paint. I certainly would not find that offensive.
> What counts is the INTENTION behind the act. The group members are all Michael Jackson FANS and were making a satirical tribute to him. If you want to satire someone with dark skin, isn't it completely logical to wear black makeup?



I wouldn't regard myself as generally uneducated or dumb, but I've never known anything about the term "blackface" until now.

"Black and white minstrels" I've heard mentioned plenty of times, but I always assumed the "black and white" bit was a reference to black and white (as opposed to colour) film and TV and that it was some program produced during that era. I had absolutely no idea it was even a reference to race.

I'd say that the majority of Australians would be in a similar situation. They had no idea as to the real significance of it all (*though it would be a fair point that the producers ought to have been aware of it*).

It's similar to how during the midst of the global financial crisis, more than one person took considerable offence at my use of the words "Fannie Mae", most taking it as some sort of offensive sexual reference. I actually had to sit them in front of a computer and do a Google search to prove that the term was relevant to finance. And yet it's a well known organisation in the USA where nobody would likely take offence at the word.

Australia is NOT the US. Many Americans have no real idea about Australia and likewise Australians about the US. And nowehere is that more obvious than in comedy - just look at all those "comedy" programs from the US and realise that Americals do, presumably, find them funny whereas they are dull and boring by Australian or British standards.


----------



## cuttlefish (9 October 2009)

Duckman said:
			
		

> There might be a touch of the redneck about me...but "We will decide what is racist in this country, just as we will decide what is offensive behaviour, what defines our sense of humour, and what we think is politically correct madness."
> 
> Duckman




Who's pontificating now!?!  "We" includes me "Mate" and yes we will decide what is racist in this country etc. blah blah and I'm contributing my bit so stick that in your pontificating high horse peace pipe and smoke it.. (If I seem a bit abrubpt, we aussies are known for our larrikin style so I'm sure you'll take it in your stride).

And what the heck a nutter like Germaine Greer has to do with any of this debate is entirely beyond me.


----------



## sam76 (9 October 2009)

Is this 'Australianist'?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26186795-401,00.html

nah, just ignorance...lol


----------



## Macquack (9 October 2009)

Agentm said:


> i recall some years ago, that other buffoon, bert newton, was presenting the logies, and standing next to him was the greatest boxer and one of the elite sporting heroes and icons, Muhammad ali.. then during the presentation said something like " *i like the boy*"
> 
> lol
> 
> ...




This is a great point, Agent M.

Like many Australians, I was unaware of the significance of 'Blackface' comedy. I remember the old 'Black and White Minstrel Shows' and knew it was now considered taboo, but not educated as to the reasons why.

If it was not for the furor that surrounded Bert Newton calling Muhammad Ali a "boy", then we would not have learned so quickly that it is totally unacceptable to call a negro - "boy".

Good on you Harry Connick for making a stand and educating many Australians including myself.


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## wayneL (9 October 2009)

Macquack said:


> negro




 Can you say that word?

I thought "African American" was the PC term _du jour_.


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## GumbyLearner (9 October 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Maybe the whole things a setup by Ch 9 's PR people .You would have to admit the publicity is priceless for the show




There seems to be a more substantive issue involved here IMO. There have been protests by international students and taxi drivers in Melbourne with regard to violent attacks throughout 2009 in Victoria. Students have assembled En masse outside suburban Melbourne Train Stations in order to accompany fellow students to escort them home due to fears of being attacked. Probably not newsworthy enough in the US unlike the Hey Hey Skit. 

Just why did John Brumby fly to India recently? Was it to discuss Australia's export industries? Gee I wonder what they may be. 

Anyway Harry has already gone home and got his appearance fee. Hopefully he has more time to do another Connex ad when he comes back.


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## Macquack (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Can you say that word?
> 
> I thought "African American" was the PC term _du jour_.




Oops,you are right, WayneL.

"African American" is the correct term and "negro" is unacceptable, just like "blackface" humour is unacceptable. It's all a learning curve.


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## nunthewiser (9 October 2009)

Macquack said:


> Oops,you are right, WayneL.
> 
> "African American" is the correct term and "negro" is unacceptable, just like "blackface" humour is unacceptable. It's all a learning curve.





mate . i cant even call a spade a spade anymore . 

it has a hidden deeper meaning these days instead of meaning being straight to the point


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## GumbyLearner (9 October 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> mate . i cant even call a spade a spade anymore .
> 
> it has a hidden deeper meaning these days instead of meaning being straight to the point




Agreed nun.

When knee high to a grasshopper, I frequently went to the Sidney Myer Music Bowl to watch the Elvis/Buddy Holly/Glenn Miller Band/ Al Jolson tributes. 

Al Jolson ??? 

Mate, I was indoctrinated with racism from an early age. (sarcasm intended)

We didn't go for the music. We were there to poke fun at the greats.


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## Duckman#72 (10 October 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> And what the heck a nutter like Germaine Greer has to do with any of this debate is entirely beyond me.




In 2004, Australian Prime Minister John Howard called Germaine Greer "elitist" and "condescending" after she criticised Australians as "too relaxed to give a damn" and derided her native country as being "defined by suburban mediocrity."

Your comment that Channel 9 presented "Australia to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour", is right out of Germaine's handbook. 

John Howard responded by calling her comments "pathetic". 

Is Australia still not confident enough to stand up to international criticism? Once again our position of being the "culturally retarded whipping boys of the Western World" takes over and our first response is to roll over and apologise. 

In an effort to "prove ourselves" as worthy of having a place at the World Deportment Class we cut any ties we have with the background, humour, history and everything else that defines us as Australian.

Duckman


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## Iggy_Pop (10 October 2009)

Iggy_Pop said:


> Somethings are best left behind, Hey, Hey being one of them. Always best to go out on a high.




A repeat of previous post which in hindsight is a good approach. Bringing Hey Hey back was to have something to compete for advertising dollars against celebrity Masterchef.


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## Tink (10 October 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> In 2004, Australian Prime Minister John Howard called Germaine Greer "elitist" and "condescending" after she criticised Australians as "too relaxed to give a damn" and derided her native country as being "defined by suburban mediocrity."
> 
> Your comment that Channel 9 presented "Australia to the rest of the world as an uneducated backwater of redneck racists devoid of culture, talent and humour", is right out of Germaine's handbook.
> 
> ...




LMAO -- if we are going to get 'stuck in the 70s' to be called Australian, *forget it*

I agree with Cuttlefish


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

Hey Hey is a great show, humor without having to say **ck every 5 minutes to get a laugh.

If people want to bow and walk out of the room backwards cringing because they feel embarrassed by the blackface skit go for it , I didn't see it as racist and surely that the point isn't it ? If it was meant to be racist it was, if it was just a humorous parody it wasn't racist.

The Jackson 5 are black so that's why they wore blackface, MJ was half white therefore the whiteface, I being white wasn't offended by that.

Just get over yourselves and thank goodness there's something decent on TV for a change.


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## Tink (10 October 2009)

I didnt see it as intentional in what they did in 'Hey Hey' but I think people that just flog off comments is wrong..

There is a lesson learnt here for all and if we are going to talk about it being 'Australian' and digging the heels in, to me thats stupid

So what if a yank brought it up - maybe we should have realised before inviting him over. Thats a slap in the face to us

Kamahl isnt coming back on the show as he found it offensive

I dont really care what happens with the show but people that just think 'its Aussie humour bad luck about anyone else' annoys me..

I used to watch the show as a kid and enjoyed it, but as I said, it was in the 70s, some things may need some minor adjustments


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## waza1960 (10 October 2009)

> There have been protests by international students and taxi drivers in Melbourne with regard to violent attacks throughout 2009 in Victoria. Students have assembled En masse outside suburban Melbourne Train Stations in order to accompany fellow students to escort them home due to fears of being attacked. Probably not newsworthy enough in the US unlike the Hey Hey Skit.
> 
> Just why did John Brumby fly to India recently? Was it to discuss Australia's export industries? Gee I wonder what they may



The above was caused by the morally corrupt State Government  pretending there was no problem like they do with anything else in their control rather than allocate proper resources (Police) to deal with the problem then when the situation blows up the a**e covering starts.


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## Macquack (10 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Hey Hey is a great show, humor without having to say **ck every 5 minutes to get a laugh.
> 
> If people want to bow and walk out of the room backwards cringing because they feel embarrassed by the blackface skit go for it , I didn't see it as racist and surely that the point isn't it ? If it was meant to be racist it was, if it was just a humorous parody it wasn't racist.
> 
> ...




Burns, everyone knows you have a 'man crush' on Daryl.

He 'beats your drum', so to speak!


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

Macquack said:


> Burns, everyone knows you have a 'man crush' on Daryl.
> He 'beats your drum', so to speak!




So every bloke you speak well of is a man crush of yours ?

Whoops sorry I asked as you're obviously gay.

Daryl was a mate of mine in the old days, we played in seperate bands but we all hung around together.

Havent spoken to him for decades, I did send his  office a message saying they should put Rene' Geyer on some years back after her album was realeased, well 2 weeks later she was on and was fairly ****house so there went my chances at being producer.

McQuack........stop playing on the computer and triss off to do some shopping, Myer has a lingerie sale on.


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## Timmy (10 October 2009)

So is the return of HHIS just 'Rove Live' for older people?


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## nunthewiser (10 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Daryl was a mate of mine in the old days, we played in seperate bands but we all hung around together.
> 
> .





what band was you in ?

i may be your love child ......................... dad?


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## nunthewiser (10 October 2009)

Timmy said:


> So is the return of HHIS just 'Rove Live' for older people?




and KKK members apparently


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> what band was you in ?
> 
> i may be your love child ......................... dad?




You wouldn't know them son, how's your mother ? she was a hotty, then again so was I....... sigh..........

He played in a band at the Hampton Hotel we did school dances and parties, we were 16 or so at the time.

Very smooth voice, cabaret style.

Bit like the band that the guys from the Blues Bros were playing in before they got the band back together.

Boring as hell but paid ok.


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## Macquack (10 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> McQuack........stop playing on the computer and triss off to do some shopping, *Myer* has a lingerie sale on.




Burns, go beat yourself up on your drum kit. Alternatively, I can show you how.


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## greggy (10 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Hey Hey is a great show, humor without having to say **ck every 5 minutes to get a laugh.
> 
> If people want to bow and walk out of the room backwards cringing because they feel embarrassed by the blackface skit go for it , I didn't see it as racist and surely that the point isn't it ? If it was meant to be racist it was, if it was just a humorous parody it wasn't racist.
> 
> ...



Yes, Mr Burns, its good to see something decent on tv for a change. Overall, I enjoyed both episodes tremendously.
If he had his time again, Darryl wouldn't have allowed the Jackson Five act go to act. IMO Darryl doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Also, he said sorry to Harry live on air so he didn't avoid the issue.  Harry accepted the apology and we should perhaps move on.  
Racism in any form should not be tolerated. We have issues here, but compared to racial violence overseas where people get killed, dozens at the time, we're still fairly lucky.
As for the topic of Indians being targeted and attacked, the Brumby Labor Government was too slow to act on the matter. Hopefully, in particular, there will be increased security at railway stations and on trains in order to deal with increasing violence.


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## Smurf1976 (10 October 2009)

Timmy said:


> So is the return of HHIS just 'Rove Live' for older people?



No, it's the other way around. Rove is only for people who have become incredibly dull and boring - anyone else would just fall asleep trying to watch it.


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

Macquack said:


> Burns, go beat yourself up on your drum kit. Alternatively, I can show you how.



You really must stop soliciting male contact


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> No, it's the other way around. Rove is only for people who have become incredibly dull and boring - anyone else would just fall asleep trying to watch it.




Rove is boring I'm afraid, he would have watched Hey Hey in despair, hope he learned something but probably not.


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## Julia (10 October 2009)

Does anyone remember the two shows "All in the Family" and "Till Death us do Part"?

What an outcry they would cause these days!

In reality, such over the top parodies of racism imo did more for equality than all the PC stuff of today.
No doubt others will disagree.


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

Julia said:


> Does anyone remember the two shows "All in the Family" and "Till Death us do Part"?
> 
> What an outcry they would cause these days!
> 
> ...






https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=497910&postcount=165


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## drsmith (10 October 2009)

MrBurns said:


> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=497910&postcount=165



The Australian equivalent would have to be Kingswood Country.


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## MrBurns (10 October 2009)

drsmith said:


> The Australian equivalent would have to be Kingswood Country.




Yeah i think they went on about Greeks etc but I cant recall any color references.


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## greggy (10 October 2009)

Julia said:


> Does anyone remember the two shows "All in the Family" and "Till Death us do Part"?
> 
> What an outcry they would cause these days!
> 
> ...



What about Peter Sellers playing the part of a B grade Indian actor in the classic comedy The Party. A white man who had his face painted to look like an Indian. I doubt whether there would be a remake here unless the part is actually played by an Indian actor.  
I have always loved the Indian culture (been to India a couple of times) and have numerous Indian friends. Of course, we love talking about the cricket in particular and watch matches together. None of them were offended by this movie (The Party).
However, these days the politically correct type would find this movie totally abhorrent.  Infact, its coming to the stage where people will not make jokes at all out of fear of offending someone.
In so far as Kingswood Country is concerned, my cultural heritage is Italian even though I see myself as being a third generation Australian. My family and I use to love that show even with Mr Ted Bulpit calling his Italian son-in- law a "Bloody Wog" all the time. 
I've already relayed my thoughts about the Hey!Hey! sketch but at the end of the day, if you don't like a particular show then you'd be better off not watching it.


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## Buddy (12 October 2009)

Agentm said:


> i recall some years ago, that other buffoon, bert newton, was presenting the logies, and standing next to him was the greatest boxer and one of the elite sporting heroes and icons, Muhammad ali.. then during the presentation said something like " i like the boy"
> 
> lol
> 
> ...




I actually remember seeing that show agentm. I guess you are right in saying that Bert was ignorant of why "boy" is considered racist in the USA  or insulting or whatever to Ali (in his defense, we do live in a backwater compared to the mighty USA).  However, one could say that Ali was equally ignorant of the fact that the term "I like the boy" in Australia is not offensive and is more a term of endearment. Just as "one of the boys" is. Just because it is insulting in the grreat US of A doesn't mean it is offensive elsewhere. And I am glad we use language differently to those people on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. Give Assies their own identity, so stuff 'em all.

OK, so you don't like Bert........but I think you are being a bit harsh. I wouldn't mind betting that Ali had a bit of a laugh after when (if) it was explained to him that it is not an offensive term in Australia.  That's one of the interesting things about the English language. So easy to get words out of context. I don't see why we have to pander to everyone else in our use of language.


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## stockGURU (12 October 2009)

Does anyone remember this show from the 70's? 

Hilarious, but you couldn't get away with it now.


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## Julia (12 October 2009)

Steve Austin, presenter of "Evenings" on ABC Local Radio, tonight expressed scorn for the outcry about the Hey Hey furore and invited calls from listeners.
There were plenty.  Without exception, the callers suggested the fuss was more a difference in the US sense of humour compared with the Australian,
and the common practice of Australians of 'taking the mickey' out of not only target groups, but ourselves.

One caller pointed out that no one gets offended at a joke about a Christian minister (e.g. boring his congregation), but any joke about a Muslim imam is out of bounds.   I hadn't thought about this, but when I do, I think he's right.

I guess there will always appropriately be areas which should be excluded from jokes, but the more I think about this, the more I conclude we are becoming too frightened to say anything spontaneously or simply in fun.

Perhaps, as a New Zealander, I will start to become offended at all those sheep jokes and the ubiquitous quote of "hah, you kiwis say "fush and chups".
I think I should be entitled to suggest that these are culturally insensitive, and go and sulk about it.


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## Happy (13 October 2009)

Julia said:


> ...
> Perhaps, as a New Zealander, I will start to become offended at all those sheep jokes and the ubiquitous quote of "hah, you kiwis say "fush and chups".
> I think I should be entitled to suggest that these are culturally insensitive, and go and sulk about it.




You could snick in a court case as form of severe bullying that causes you depression.


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## Buddy (13 October 2009)

Spot on Julia. That's similar to what I was saying about Bert and Ali, and the differences in intent.
I mean taking this to it's ultimate end, there will be no more jokes.  That will make life really interesting, eh?
Funny (no, not really) how this is generally lead by your media types, etc. Too many people with too much time and too much to say.
And am I offended by Michael Jackson turning himself into a white man? No, not really. Just another nutter.


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## wayneL (13 October 2009)

Julia said:


> Perhaps, as a New Zealander, I will start to become offended at all those sheep jokes and the ubiquitous quote of "hah, you kiwis say "fush and chups".
> I think I should be entitled to suggest that these are culturally insensitive, and go and sulk about it.



Julia,

This might give you a smile:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10602759



> The kiwi accent has been rated the most attractive and prestigious form of English outside the UK in a BBC survey.
> 
> Respondents from throughout the UK completed an online survey rating the prestige and social attractiveness of 34 different English accents.
> 
> The kiwi "fush and chups" came seven places ahead of Australia's "sex and Seedney" - and nine ahead of the American accent in terms of attractiveness.


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## Julia (13 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Julia,
> 
> This might give you a smile:
> 
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10602759



Interesting.  Thanks, Wayne.
It's really too much of a generalisation to focus on "an Australian/NZ" accent, isn't it?   There's a considerable variation of accents across most countries, determined largely by socio economic group/ do I dare to say class/and sometimes level of education.

Personally, the accent I like is the South African one.


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## overit (13 October 2009)

> The kiwi accent has been rated the most attractive and prestigious form of English outside the UK in a BBC survey.




These people obviously never heard the accent from this chick in the movie "after the sunset".  Whatever it was, she was smoking hot! Salma Hayek wasnt too bad either.


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## GumbyLearner (13 October 2009)

Julia said:


> Interesting.  Thanks, Wayne.
> It's really too much of a generalisation to focus on "an Australian/NZ" accent, isn't it?   There's a considerable variation of accents across most countries, determined largely by socio economic group/ do I dare to say class/and sometimes level of education.
> 
> Personally, the accent I like is the South African one.




I love it when Aussies tell Yanks about losing their FOCUS.

Yanks are like FICUS ?? 

Anyway this thread certainly has lost some of it's FICUS.

So I'll put one in for good measure.


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## sam76 (13 October 2009)

The Simpsons and South Park racially stereotype people ALL THE TIME (bumblebee man, luigi the pizza shop owner etc...)

The simpsons is promoted as a family show as well...


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