# Direct investment in precious metals?



## Lucky (20 September 2007)

Hi Guys,

A quick question for the acknowledgeable out there.  I'm wanting to purchase actual precious metals, that is have a physical holding of gold and silver and was wondering whether anyone has done so and could recommend the best way of doing so.  I had thought about "paper" gold/silver, but  would rather hedge my self with the real thing.  Does anyone hold real p.m's or have a hedge with the paper stuff?  Thanks.

cheers

ant


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## explod (20 September 2007)

Lucky said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> A quick question for the acknowledgeable out there.  I'm wanting to purchase actual precious metals, that is have a physical holding of gold and silver and was wondering whether anyone has done so and could recommend the best way of doing so.  I had thought about "paper" gold/silver, but  would rather hedge my self with the real thing.  Does anyone hold real p.m's or have a hedge with the paper stuff?  Thanks.
> 
> ...




I live in Melbourne so it has been convienient for my to buy directly from A J Matthey who have an office in Collins Street.   There are other outlets but went to Mattheys as they have a very long standing reputation.   There are other ways such asw EFT's where you have a certificate and the bullion is kept for you.   I was advised that if I was going to hold bullion for the long term it was best to have it physically.   Storage in a Bank vault costs me $250 annual and I think keeping it this way is essential also.

Matthey's have outlets in most Capitals I believe.  Find them on the web for further


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## numbercruncher (20 September 2007)

Hi Lucky,


I invest in Gold and some silver from a Numismatic angle, Primarily i Invest in Australian Gold Sovereign coins, Sovereigns have circulated for centuries and have been minted in Australia from 1855 to 1931, they have an avid collector market and are internationally recognised, each Sovereign contains .2354 oz of gold, they still see use even now the SAS carry them on missions in the Middle East as "payment" for various things. The main coin dealers in Australia are Jaggards and Monetarium and there is a good group that sell on ebay.com.au as well.

Not knowing what sort of quantities your after you can buy directly from Bullion dealers or the Perth mint you can get bars upto 1kg, just call them for the daily spot price. They also have a great series in Silver, the Lunar series Bullion coins, 1,2,5,10 oz and 1kg.

One of the best ways to Invest in Gold in my humble opinion is Australian $200 coins, they are legal tender minted from 1980 to 1994 they weigh 10 grams with 91.67% purity and you can usually acquire them for somewhere around a 20pc premium over the spot price but you are basically hedged against the gutch falling out of the gold market by being able to take them to a bank for the legal tender.

Hope this helps, Numismatics is a subject im well versed in so any questions, shoot!


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## bean (20 September 2007)

I buy my silver through Adelaide Exchange Jewellers
This shows there buy and sell price each day
http://www.adelaide-exchange.com.au/
Explod I must have a small deposit box mine is only $103.50 pa
which bank


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## CanOz (20 September 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Hope this helps, Numismatics is a subject im well versed in so any questions, shoot!




I've got a question...and i could look it up, but i'll ask on here for the benefit off all others curious...what the heck is Numismatics


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## Ageo (20 September 2007)

I own and buy physicals all the time (im in the industry thow). We are stocking up on silver as its cheap for the time being and we should see a nice jump in price in the next 20yrs.


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## barrett (20 September 2007)

Very interesting about the SAS carrying gold, numbercruncher.  Gold never stopped being the global currency.

AGR Matthey have an outlet in Kalgoorlie and in all the capitals except Canberra Hobart and Darwin. 

If you're in Canberra like me you can buy gold and silver bullion from Edlins, Akuna St, City and have it stored in the underground vault at the Commonwealth Bank City branch.

Just about wherever you are in Australia though, you can get your PMs a little cheaper even after postage and insurance if you mail order your bullion from Perth mint.  See their website or phone them for details.  They're great.  

You can also order bullion from US gold site Kitco.com but having it mailed from Perth is far enough for me!

For ETFs:

Gold:  ticker symbol GOLD on the ASX (each share = 1/10 oz) - recommended by Fat Prophets - and for 

Silver: none in Australia but SLV on the AMEX (US) exchange which can be accessed using an account with Commsec International (free a/c setup, about US$60 brokerage) or other international broker.

The ASX ETF ticker symbol: GOLD can be geared at about 2:1 using most Australian margin lending accounts.   But for leverage to the gold price the futures market is unbeatable with 26:1 leverage on Comex Gold 100oz contracts.  I use MFA Global broker, $15/contract brokerage.


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## numbercruncher (20 September 2007)

CanOz said:


> I've got a question...and i could look it up, but i'll ask on here for the benefit off all others curious...what the heck is Numismatics





Numismatics (Lat. numisma, nomisma, a coin; from the Greek, derived from vo µi eiv, to use according to law), is the scientific study of currency and its history in all its varied forms.





Im one of those people who "dig" nerdy things !


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## numbercruncher (21 September 2007)

1925 Melbourne minted gold Sovereign featuring legendary design by Benedetto Pistrucci of St. George slaying the dragon.

7.9881 grams of 22 carat 916.6 fine Gold.


Try Printing one of those Helicopter Bernanke


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## numbercruncher (21 September 2007)

Ageo said:


> I own and buy physicals all the time (im in the industry thow). We are stocking up on silver as its cheap for the time being and we should see a nice jump in price in the next *20yrs*.




Lollercoaster


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## clowboy (21 September 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Hi Lucky,
> 
> 
> I invest in Gold and some silver from a Numismatic angle, Primarily i Invest in Australian Gold Sovereign coins, Sovereigns have circulated for centuries and have been minted in Australia from 1855 to 1931, they have an avid collector market and are internationally recognised, each Sovereign contains .2354 oz of gold, they still see use even now the SAS carry them on missions in the Middle East as "payment" for various things. The main coin dealers in Australia are Jaggards and Monetarium and there is a good group that sell on ebay.com.au as well.
> ...




Hey numbercruncher,   whats some good soveriegns to get ones hands on?


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## chops_a_must (21 September 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Numismatics (Lat. numisma, nomisma, a coin; from the Greek, derived from vo µi eiv, to use according to law), is the scientific study of currency and its history in all its varied forms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hehehehe. Likewise. What's your opinion on leather bound and antique books?

As to coins, I have a thing for florins meself...


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## Lucky (21 September 2007)

Hey guys thanks for all the great info.  I'm in Melbourne so will check out AGR Mahoney and the Perth Mint.  Will also check out the EFT's on both Gold and Silver.

Thanks once again.

cheers

Ant


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## numbercruncher (21 September 2007)

chops_a_must said:


> Hehehehe. Likewise. What's your opinion on leather bound and antique books?
> 
> As to coins, I have a thing for florins meself...





Heya Chops !

Yes i love old books too, Im not religous but ive been wanting for ages to get one of the earlier/est English Bibles say a King James or Geneva - Great piece of History and good investment too i reckon !

Yes Florins are a great coin to collect, popular and the early years in good uncirculated grades fetch big prices, some in the many Thousands $ now a days.

I was going to try demonstrate the Power of Precious metals using the Florin as relative to petrol prices but cant find petrol prices from the pre decimal days, so ill do it using 1966 ....


Did you know in 1966 50 cents would buy you about 2 litres of Fuel, but now a days that same 1966 50 cent piece would get you nearly 4 litres of fuel, you guessed it a 1966 50 cent piece contained 1/3rd of an Oz of Silver - no wonder the masters of the universe got rid of currencys containing or backed by precious metals hey


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## numbercruncher (21 September 2007)

clowboy said:


> Hey numbercruncher,   whats some good soveriegns to get ones hands on?





Heya Clowboy,


That would really depend if you want exposure to the precious metals prices or Numismatic value - rare coins historically have shown 20pc pa price growth.

I would advice as an Australian always buy Australian minted sovereigns as the market to buy them is much larger(here).

Im going to assume you want exposure mainly to the precious metal prices ? 
So the cheapest Sovereigns for this purpose because of large mintage figures are those of the Monarch King George v minted between 1911 and 1928, you can grab these in uncirculated grades for around 20pc or so above the spot gold price.

Two of the most expensive Australian Gold Sovereigns (last known sale price)

1853 Pattern Sovereign 750k
1920 Sydney mint Sovereign 750k

Way way way out of this little turkeys price range


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## Ageo (21 September 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Lollercoaster





hehe indeed, but buying large quantities say over 100k at $15 p/o eventually (i gave a time frame within 20yrs) the price should eventually hit $150 p/o or more with the current supply and demand levels. 

Thats if you have cash left over, but for me we sell it plus i come across cheap jewellery (silver in particular) where people want to sell off to get some quick cash.


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## numbercruncher (21 September 2007)

Ageo said:


> hehe indeed, but buying large quantities say over 100k at $15 p/o eventually (i gave a time frame within 20yrs) the price should eventually hit $150 p/o or more with the current supply and demand levels.
> 
> Thats if you have cash left over, but for me we sell it plus i come across cheap jewellery (silver in particular) where people want to sell off to get some quick cash.





Yes im very Bullish on SIlvers long term prospects too, got a giggle out of the time frame , made me think waaay into the future, hopefully this pesky fiat currency can be banished by then 


Just Imagine 150 silver, people digging through old jars of coins, scrapping family heirlooms, jewlery etc


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## chops_a_must (22 September 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Heya Chops !
> I was going to try demonstrate the Power of Precious metals using the Florin as relative to petrol prices but cant find petrol prices from the pre decimal days, so ill do it using 1966 ....
> 
> 
> Did you know in 1966 50 cents would buy you about 2 litres of Fuel, but now a days that same 1966 50 cent piece would get you nearly 4 litres of fuel, you guessed it a 1966 50 cent piece contained 1/3rd of an Oz of Silver - no wonder the masters of the universe got rid of currencys containing or backed by precious metals hey




That's an idea for Lucky.

Coin dealers will sell these round 50c coins at spot... so roughly $5 a pop. And they look cool too (being round and all!). Perhaps the easiest way to buy physical silver is with this method.


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## numbercruncher (22 September 2007)

Peice of useless information for you all ...

Highest (known) price ever paid for a collectable coin

Uncirculated 1933 US $20 Gold “double eagle” @ 7.59m


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## explod (23 September 2007)

bean said:


> I buy my silver through Adelaide Exchange Jewellers
> This shows there buy and sell price each day
> http://www.adelaide-exchange.com.au/
> Explod I must have a small deposit box mine is only $103.50 pa
> which bank






Westpac, trouble is I have a fair bit of silver which takes up a fair but of space and is heavy.   I think the leverage of silver will be greater when PM gets going properly


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