# What formed your attitude toward money?



## Julia (6 February 2011)

I'm interested to know why some of us seem to have a natural capacity to deal well with money and others do not.

Does it have to do with how you were brought up?  What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?

Was there any influence via your school years?

What effect did 'wanting to do better than others have', if that was a factor?

Or if you've struggled with being able to save and invest proficiently, what factors do you think have influenced this?



> 've been contemplating getting into shares for a long time. I've managed to accumulated a substantial amount of money in my bank account (about $60K). It's sitting there in a high interest savings account giving me a steady income. I normally top it up every week with savings from my earnings, so money has grown steadily over the years.






> When i read your post it almost sounded as if i wrote it myself. I am in a strikingly similar situation: I'm a 20 year old university student with a similarly sized bank account, have several part time jobs, looking to invest some money in the markets (and hopefully purchase a house within the next 5 years) and have just opened up a Commsec account with a few thousand dollars. I think its great to see young people trying to set themselves up for future financial comfort (I could never understand how some of my friends still live at home yet have literally no savings






> Neo, I am in the exact same position as you...
> 
> Im 21, I have saved up a chunk of money which i wont disclosed how much which i first saved to buy a house.
> 
> ...






> Fail. I'm 20, built my own house a year ago, full time university student with a share portfolio floating around 45k. Its possible, there are some niche jobs out there where you can make a motza.
> 
> To the OP and all those of similar age with the fear, just put your feet in. I had the same problem, but my partner encouraged me and I started off with some blue chips to get a better understand, learning researching skills and Mr Market. Now I have small cap exposure and making some very good returns (30%+).
> 
> Get in the water, its mighty fine.



******************************************************

Just great efforts.   I'd really be interested to know what you feel was your motivation here to do so well at such a young age.  Plenty of others would also be living at home etc, but just be frittering away whatever income they had.





> Mate if you have accumulated near 60k in two or three years working part time while studying at University then you must be a) the General Managers boy Friday , b) have rich parents supplementing your part time wage with a salary or c) an internet forum exaggerator.
> At 20 I was working 'full time', paying off a car, share renting a house, paying electricity/phone/gas bills, buying my own food and going out once a week and holidays once a year.
> This left very little to save.






> I made up for it. By the time I was 30 I owned 5 houses and had a share portfolio valuation over 2 million dollars. Anyone who thinks it can't be done are kiddin' themselves. There are plenty of people out there doing it.




The above two posts are from the same person.

If you are being truthful, that's an astonishing turn around in ten years from having nothing to being very well off.

Perhaps you could tell us how you achieved this.  Would also be interested to know what shares comprise the p/f of over 2 million dollars.


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## ParleVouFrancois (6 February 2011)

_I'm interested to know why some of us seem to have a natural capacity to deal well with money and others do not.

Does it have to do with how you were brought up? What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?_

I learned that saving is very important from my parents, they always lived pretty simple, same cars for last decade or so, TV's always used until they break, same as fridge etc. It's not that we are poor, it's just that parents like to save instead of spend.

_Was there any influence via your school years?_

Not really, school doesn't exactly teach anyone about finance.

_What effect did 'wanting to do better than others have', if that was a factor?_

This isn't a primary driver of why I invest/save, I just want to get a stack of cash so I do whatever I want, as in, if I don't want to work, I don't have to, or if I want to go on a holiday, within reason, I can. I'm not talking several millions, just one million will be enough for me I think . The thought of being a 9 to 5 wage slave for the next 45 years of my life doesn't really appeal to me, but perhaps I'm just weird LOL.

_Or if you've struggled with being able to save and invest proficiently, what factors do you think have influenced this?_

I've always been pretty conservative regarding spending, I find it easy to save well over 60-70% of my pay, but then again I live at home and parents pay for food, I have NO idea how people that live home seem to be without cash all the time.


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## So_Cynical (7 February 2011)

What formed your attitude toward money? 

I would say that not having any was probably the biggest influence ...at least in my desire to have some money, overall money and i have had a strange relationship...i want it and it does its best to avoid me.

I'm absolutely convinced that money begets money, so just being raised in a money friendly environment is a big advantage...still some people just seem to have a spark of some kind for success regardless of there upbringing.

My family were never disciplined savers or driven people, no uni graduates, so no professionals to speak of and no role models or guidance to success, i had a couple of opportunity's in my teens but bad luck and poor timing were against me.

I learned early on thru reading that there was easy money to be made, some people lived charmed life's and that i wasn't one of those people....anyway the stars have lined up for me now and ive found out i was right about what i have always though...making money is alot easier if you already have some.


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## Tysonboss1 (7 February 2011)

My father always lived frugally, and I think I have taken some of that from him.

My family was always open to talking about money, Which lead to many conversations around the dinner table talking about investing, home ownership, debt, family budgets which is a world away from my wifes family who clam up and look uncomfortable if these topics are brought up in conversation.

my parents pointed out that if I spent money it was gone forever along with the hours I worked to earn it. He pointed out if I saved it then I would earn interest which I wouldn't have to work for. It was a simple introduction to the idea of investing, but it changed my life. from that day I have always spent less than I earn.

Also some where early on I was introduced to the idea of compound interest I can't remember where, But I remember playing with my calculater in year 8 or 9 and being blowen away at how fast the number grew, this gave me even more conviction to save as much money as I could and invest it as effiently as I could.

I also think never ramping up my consumption just because my income was growing has had a big benefit. People naturally increase their spending as their income increases, For some reason I never did.

I mean I was enjoying life and doing the same things when I was earning $40K that I am now that I earn >$150K. My outgoings have not really increased over time.


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## grandia3 (7 February 2011)

Well, first of all I am 22 this year and have just got my permanent residence about 3-4 years ago

you know, back home, buying shares are kind of taboo. It is said that buying shares is just the same as gambling. So yeah, it is RARE to see people actually invest in stock back in my country

I didn't get any exposure to share/investing when I was still living in my home countries, I can say that studying here in Aus really influence my thinking

but, I should say that my parents teach me good attitudes toward money (they still do until now), they are not the type who earn big and spend big, they always tell me that money doesn't grow on trees and thus, don't waste it
my dad always tell me stories, something like, hey do you know that Mr. A used to be a very rich guy, but he never save money and addicted to gambling and now he is struggling

Conclusion, I think what really influence people toward money are their living environment, what and where they study, how they are brought up, and God's gift

just my 2c


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## Bill M (7 February 2011)

Julia said:


> I'm interested to know why some of us seem to have a natural capacity to deal well with money and others do not.



For me they key driver is the absolute hatred for work. I see work as taking away my good life, I mean not being able to do what I want to do. I wanted to be retired in my 20's so I thought of achieving this throughout my whole working life.




> Does it have to do with how you were brought up?  What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?




My parents were hard working people who just saved their money and paid off their mortgage. They were happy to retire in their early 60's and just live on the pension. My Mother though had some shares and some gold coins but the amount only topped up their government pension just a bit. The only thing that my Dad ever said to me was that no matter how much you earn you got to save one third of it, I think I did better than that.



> Was there any influence via your school years?



School was totally useless to me. I remember one class in high school in the 70's where the teacher said we should now look at some shares listed in the share market section. Pick a few and record the prices. A week later she said now look at those shares and record if they went up or down. Some students went up some down. Big deal, that lesson was over and that was it. I remember an economics class as well but all they ever talked about was supply and demand. Taught me nothing at the time and meant nothing to me.



> What effect did 'wanting to do better than others have', if that was a factor?



Hmm, that wasn't the issue for me, I just wanted to be retired and I had to learn how to do this on my own. What others had was irrelevant, but if they were retired then I was interested to know more.



> Or if you've struggled with being able to save and invest proficiently, what factors do you think have influenced this?



I never struggled to save. The problem was that it took a very very long time to get to retired status, a lot of hard work. A lot of investments and a lot of busts in some stocks that brought me down too. The hardest part is not making mistakes, the GFC was the worst I ever had to go through and I am still trying to correct the imbalances it cause me.




> Just great efforts.   I'd really be interested to know what you feel was your motivation here to do so well at such a young age.  Plenty of others would also be living at home etc, but just be frittering away whatever income they had.




When I left school I started an apprenticeship. I went from being a school kid with pocket money to earning a salary in 1 week. I was blown away with all this surplus cash. I decided to pay Mum board as my older brother did this too but even after that there was plenty left over. I kept saving and saving, it was easy. Remember I went from nothing to a small salary. I still got drunk like other teenagers and on the weekends I went surfing but I still managed to save. Then I got offers of overtime so I took it. Now the money was building up even faster. I bought a good car and kept on saving. My mates didn't want the o/t, I did. The difference between me and them started there. I was prepared to do o/t for extra money and they were not. Then I failed my 3rd year at TAFE. I had to drop Friday nights out for study otherwise I would not get my license. 

Eventually I passed and the o/t was gathering more momentum. The savings were building up. Now I was still a party animal but was a saver and worker in the mean time. I wanted to move away from my parents and the only way I was going to get away with that was to buy a house. I put my 10% down and borrowed the rest and bought my first house at 18 yo. This was just great. Got a mate to share with me so he helped out with some costs. By this time I was a fully fledged traddie working for a factory making good money with plenty of o/t.

I think the biggest influences in my live was the local Italian community where I lived and what I learnt myself thereafter. As a kid I lived in a very hard working Immigrant suburb, mostly Italians. I always noted they were a bit different. Their kids always had better bikes, their birthday partys were a bit better and they had this knack of having nice houses and growing and doing everything for themselves. I could see they worked hard but the older ones were living very well in retirement. They mostly invested in real estate and I knew from a very young age that real estate was the way to beat the system. In my opinion it still is if you are careful of where you buy and what you buy. You never see a broke person who owns rental properties and lives off the rent. This was me I thought and I wanted this.

Later in my working life I was working 2 jobs, my missus was working too and I owned 3 properties and 2 Mortgages. The plan always was to live in one owned outright and rent one out for income. This was achieved in the end, all went according to plan.

During the mortgage stage and working stage I started studying about shares. I needed another edge as one rental property would not be enough. I bought some very basic books like Money and More Money (I think). I also bought a course called "Successful Personal Investing". It was about 25 lessons I think and cost $400. I fully understood the concept of buying and owning shares after doing that course. I bought more and more shares with the intent of getting a dividend stream. I am not a trader and don't care for it, I am only interested in buying good companies that pay good dividends.

The key has always been hard work, good investments, only listen to those who achieved anything (financially that is) and enjoy. There are no get rich quick schemes I'm afraid. The best saying I've read is "getting rich slowly". Also in life you got to know when to quit, no use being a decrepit broken down old man with millions in the bank. KNOW WHEN TO QUIT, I really mean that part.

So that's me in a nutshell. Not bad for a bloke who didn't even make it to University. Cheers.


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## RamonR (7 February 2011)

Those studies performed years ago were young children were asked to avoid touching or eating marshmallows and they would receive more. Most of the children could,'t.

Highlight that being able to delay gratification is a big factor in financial competence.
Those children who could avoid the immediate temptation for the greater future reward were shown to have done better in life subsequently.

In Scientific American August 2010 there is a article where people with low levels of  MAOA ( enzyme that breaks down neurotransmitters ) were shown to be more impulsive and consequently have greater levels of credit card debt.


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## prawn_86 (7 February 2011)

While i'm not as well off as some of the other members here who are my age i am still in a very comfortable position. I am now refocusing on my investing and have a 5 year plan so we'll see if i can get my goals 

Personally my attitude towards money came mainly from my father who taught me the basics of saving etc.

My spending habits come from my mum who klikes the finer things, while still not going into debt for it.

I do believe in having fun/enjoying the money you earn, so we put away about 20% of our post tax income and then spend the rest on travel etc. I have had a few friends die already and dont want to be in a position where i have delayed all my gratification and not enjoyed my life.


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## c-unit (7 February 2011)

Throughout high school my folks always suggested I should save, but I never really did. I worked in retail but only two shifts a week, and spent roughly 50% of it. But by the time I had finished high school, I had a few thousand and my parents helped me buy my first car as a reward for doing really well in VCE. I bought a japanese import, a "cool" car if you will. I think the main "beliefs" my folks therefore tought me is not in saving money, but in rewards for hard work. 

During Uni I kept working retail but with some math and finance tutoring on the side. During my Uni holidays I did Vacation work at banks etc, but spent alot of the proceeds on big plasma TV's/playstations/booze etc. But what I've noticed is that spending isn't overly satisfying. In fact I always regret it afterwards. 

So now, as I've just finished my fifth year of Uni and about to start work, save about 80% of my income, and have been for the last few years. I learnt from my parents the rewards of working hard, and I learnt from my own dissatisfaction with spending that saving most of my income is the way to go. I even regret now buying my japanese import. I wish I had bought a $500 beaten down Ford instead.

Edit: great thread, nice to read the stories from Bill M et al, inspirational.


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## Knobby22 (7 February 2011)

A good friend of the family lost everything when I was 21 due to not understanding the business cycle.

My parents lost everything due to poor decisions when I was 23.


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## awg (7 February 2011)

My parents were of Protestant background. 

This emphasised an individual work ethic and a definite savings mentality.

They were also of the depression years.


As a very young tacker, I read a book by Norman Vincent Peale (I think)

compound interest, the need to save 10%+ and start young..buy property early ..strive to develop multiple passive income streams, pure commonsense.

I went OS 1st time at 26....young-uns go twice a year now

Even though I could afford to and really wanted to, if I had done that I could NOT have bought property and shares


Some side notes; some people I know very well, were bought up in large Catholic families.

Every cent earned was spent, 

they dont think in a similar manner to myself re wealth accumulation

Anecdotely I hear some children of Nimben hippies are disgusted with the mentality and rebel by getting the best education and highest paying jobs they can.


Another point I would add, that may be superflous to any reading, but one must continue to relentlessly educate yourself about money-making.

its a hard game, aint quite as easy as old Norm implied


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## Julia (7 February 2011)

Great stories - thanks to all of you who've been generous with sharing what motivates you.

The common theme seems to be a determination to take responsibility for your own financial success.

Not everyone so far seems to have developed this because of parental example, and I'm a bit surprised at that.

My own first memory about money was at about age 7.  I was given a small amount of pocket money on the absolute condition that I save half of it.  I had to write down what I planned to buy with this saved portion, what the total cost was, and therefore how many weeks I'd take to be able to buy whatever it was.

The same principle has stuck with me always.

Another constant refrain from my father was 'never give anyone else control of your money:  learn how to manage it yourself'.

Also saw both parents relinquish their professional occupations to work long hours in a corner store because they believed they could make more money (which they did).
So I learned from that the principle that social status wasn't everything.

(I did, however, go through some teenage angst about my father turning up to collect me from my very exclusive school in the old beat up ute used for carting vegies and fruit from the market!    This little effort of snobbery on my part earned me a sharp parental lecture about values.)


The other feature of the posts so far is a noticeable lack of 'self indulgence', i.e. a willingness to save rather than necessarily buy the latest whizbang whatever.

Bill, you're so very clear about always wanting to cease working as soon as possible.
Would you say this reflects jobs that you simply didn't enjoy?  Would there have been other occupations that maybe would have given you interest and satisfaction?

I know a lot of people feel the same.  But some vow they will never fully retire, so much do they enjoy the work environment.  Some people seem to 'become their jobs' in that they're unsure of their identity outside of work.

I left the workforce in my 40's, able to sustain myself financially and felt a huge relief to be away from the corporate competitiveness and striving for ever greater results.
But there has been sometimes a perverse nostalgia for the sense of challenge.

Please keep the stories coming.  So interesting.


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## medicowallet (7 February 2011)

There are many things which have influenced my ability to handle money, and even though I am a high income earner, I am wealthy too, which a lot of my colleagues are not.

My top 5, in no particular order are:

1. Self made parents. 
2. I have lost a lot of money investing, I have no fear in investing wisely.
3. Having responsibilities as a parent and single income family.
4. Only taking advice from older people who are wealthy from investing, not income.
5. Being frugal (I look for value, but quality)


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## Tysonboss1 (7 February 2011)

medicowallet said:


> 4. Only taking advice from older people who are wealthy from investing, not income.




I am not sure I could agree with only taking advice from people older than yourself. 

I think the quality of the advice is more important than the age of the advisor.


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## KurwaJegoMac (7 February 2011)

Great thread Julia! I'm really enjoying hearing other people's stories. As for me, I'm 25 and only got into the whole investing world in the last 3 years. 



Julia said:


> I'm interested to know why some of us seem to have a natural capacity to deal well with money and others do not.
> 
> Does it have to do with how you were brought up?  What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?




My parents were always quite frugal, never spending money on the latest craze or fancy cars (we usually drove the same car for 10 years). They migrated here from Poland in their early 20's after World War 2, essentially coming here with nothing but the shirts on their back. My father worked hard doing manual labour so that he could put my mum in school to learn English while he supported me and my siblings (3 in total).

One of my father's stories that stuck with me was how he would ride a push bike (with no gears!) for almost 2 hours every day to get to work. Refusing to buy a car like all his friends did so that he could have enough money to buy a house. 

Little has changed since then, they still work hard and live in a bigger house (no debt thankfully) but they never invested a cent - in fact it wasnt until 2 years ago that I managed to convince them to put aside some money in a term deposit (assuring them that they wouldn't lose their money!) Since then they've set up online savings account and regularly make use of term deposits. 

Investing was never discussed at our home, it was always seen in a negative light. "So and so invested their money and blew it all" - those sort of stories that you hear all the time. They were brought up to 'put everything under the mattress' - not even trusting banks (although we did have money in our bank accounts, most was actually sitting around in cash). In post war communist Poland, money 'disappeared' sometimes so thats how they were raised and I guess living here they didn't know any better.

That being said, despite the fact that my dad was a good saver i never really picked up the habit so much. I tended to be a lot more liberal from the moment I started getting my pay check (generally saving only about 25% of what I earned)



Julia said:


> Was there any influence via your school years?




None whatsoever. I started working from age 16, saved up enough to buy a car at 18 which I still drive today. During my school years I only saved about 25% of what I earned, spending most on going out, computers, holidays, clothes, etc.  



Julia said:


> What effect did 'wanting to do better than others have', if that was a factor?




Not really a factor for me. 



Julia said:


> I'd really be interested to know what you feel was your motivation here to do so well at such a young age.  Plenty of others would also be living at home etc, but just be frittering away whatever income they had.




For me, it all started at age 23 in 2008. I was disillusioned with my degree, being in my 3rd year of uni I found I had no interest or passion for what I was studying so I took a 'gap year' and went to work at a bank as an internship. The pay wasn't great but I was determined to get my foot in the door. Once there, after a few months the GFC started in full swing and suddenly news of the stock market was being sprouted left right and center. People in the building would talk about how everything was crashing and people were getting margin called. Studying engineering at uni I had no idea what these people were talking about - but being a naturally curious person (I like to know a bit about everything) I decided to learn more so that I could join in the conversations at lunch time.

Soon enough, I started to read books and it opened my eyes to the world of the sharemarket. I started to get involved in some of the conversations at work and started to dip my toes in. Although in hindsight 'dip' might not have been the best way to describe it: I purchased $7000 worth of NAB shares (half of my capital) and was extremely happy to sell it a week later at 8%. How happy was I! Everyone was losing their money and here I was making a killing (i racked up a few more trades, amounting to about a 15% total gain in 3 weeks). My stock picks were based on pure 'hunches'. NAB is a good company right? It looks cheap... lets buy it. That was the entire extent of my analysis 

But of course we all know Mr. Market teaches a hard lesson in humility early on. A week later, having seen FMG hit a high of $13 and now trading at $8 i thought it was a bargain. So I piled in my cash. Next day it opened at a $1300 loss. No big deal right? It'll recover right? Well the next day I was down another $2500. I wasn't feeling like such a big shot any more. Luckily on that second day I was reading a book on investing and had finished reading a section about "cutting your losses short and letting your profits run - all too often people get stuck into the 'it must recover', 'its a bargain' etc"

So I cut it short. While it doesn't seem like a lot of money to some, after your first month of trading at a young age it wasn't nice to see so much of your savings wiped out. 

From there I just kept reading and reading, devouring book after book to ensure I never repeated the same mistakes. I read countless books and noticed that I did pretty much everything they warned against doing! So I spent countless hours learning about all types of investing. 

Since that time things have turned around. I've worked very hard to save and invest as much as I can. In the following two years I have averaged a little over 30% year on year return on my share trading, have set up and run my own Self Managed Superfund (which my parents and brother are a part of) and have put down offers on a number of properties in the last couple of weeks in the hope of snagging one at a discounted price.

It's my first year out of uni, and having worked 40 hours a week, 5 days a week and looking at a mortgage I have begun to appreciate how hard one must work for $. The question I ask myself every day is do I want to be a slave until I retire at 65 with nothing to show for my working life? Or do I want to be in a position where I can provide for myself and my family all the time, to live a comfortable life spending less time working and more time on the important things like family, fitness and health.


------------------------------------------

tl;dr

- No influence from school
- Frugal parents
- GFC raised interest in the sharemarket
- Few beginner mistakes costing me $$
- Lots of reading
- Profitable Trading
- On my way to financial freedom


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## tech/a (7 February 2011)

At 18 my father said "You have no respect for money"---He is right.
At 21 My new wife and I did a budget and had $5 left for us. Isaid
I dont ever want to be in a position where I have to worry about money.

Started working for myself.

28 First shot at Bankruptcy just fell short!
Changed business direction lost all but business property---including losing the wife.
35 second shot at B/Ruptcy.

40 Get it right business turns over $1 mill
Have some spare.
Start buying houses and keep going for 10 yrs.
Accumulate quite a few.
Develop 3 duplex developements
Get trading right after 10 yrs.

Business cracks the 4 mill T/O.
Sell and freehold property and positive gear all.

Hit 55 and can retire.

Still working cause I can and love it.
Play golf/Ride miles and travel heaps whenever I want.
Lifes very good.
Business structured to operate without me.

Still have no respect for money.
Help many out who have no idea I do.
That is the most rewarding of all (Particularly hearing the stories and how it helps).


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## danago (7 February 2011)

Julia said:


> I'm interested to know why some of us seem to have a natural capacity to deal well with money and others do not.
> 
> Does it have to do with how you were brought up?  What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?
> 
> ...




I think my money-awareness really did start from a young age. My older generation relatives migrated to Australia in the early 1900's from Italy to what is now a largely Italian-based community. My grandparents (and many others in the community) worked hard to establish a fruit orchard which has been kept in the family and is now operated by my dad. From the age of around 7 or 8 onwards i would help pick and pack fruit, especially during the busy season while i was on school holidays. It wasn't a lot of money, but dad would always pay me in proportion to the number of hours i worked. I strongly believe that this helped me to appreciate the value of hard work from a young age.

I had never studied any economics or finance until university, so high school did not really play much of a direct role in my financial habits. The classes i did at school were some of the "harder" ones i.e. physics, chemistry, calculus etc. and i am generally quite competitive, so there was a lot of friendly competition between me and one other student to be the top in the classes. I think this same "driven" attitude has transferred itself to my bank account, where i challenge myself to do better than the average person. 

If i was to give a specific reason as to why i try to be so careful with my money and make it grow as much as i can, I'd say for the financial security. I am not necessarily expecting to become so rich that i can buy whatever i want, but what i do hope for myself is that i can live comfortably without having to stress about money all the time, and if there is something that I'd like (within reason) i can afford to buy it.


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## medicowallet (7 February 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> I am not sure I could agree with only taking advice from people older than yourself.
> 
> I think the quality of the advice is more important than the age of the advisor.




I didn't mean older than me, I just meant that they had to be older.

imo experience with money is more valuable than brashness.

I am a much better manager of money now that I am wiser. People with moderate incomes and large wealth who are experienced with money will always give better advice than someone who is 30 with 10 million and is 5 years awayfrom bankruptcy.


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## Bill M (7 February 2011)

Julia said:


> Bill, you're so very clear about always wanting to cease working as soon as possible.
> Would you say this reflects jobs that you simply didn't enjoy?  Would there have been other occupations that maybe would have given you interest and satisfaction?




Hi Julia, nearly all the jobs I had I enjoyed at first. But come a few Months later and I just wished I was somewhere else. I have had so many different jobs in so many different  vocations it's not funny. I could go into it but if I mention any of them anyone who knows me reading this can identify me immediately so I can't go there. Let's just say that in my longest and best job many people said "you are so lucky to be working in such a nice job in such a nice area". I left them all in the end, I even worked for myself for a while. I don't know, work just doesn't do it for me. I only ever did it for money, I certainly didn't do it because I loved the job, people or the feeling of being inclusive. Give me my freedom any day, I have a big life outside of work.



> I know a lot of people feel the same.  But some vow they will never fully retire, so much do they enjoy the work environment.  Some people seem to 'become their jobs' in that they're unsure of their identity outside of work.




I met a very successful ex business man about 2 years ago who was doing an unskilled job for $20 hour. He did not need the money and I asked him why. He said it's because he's got nothing to do. I can not comprehend this, I can't even find the time to do nothing these days as I am so busy outside of work. Mind you I am overseas a lot and I am totally different from the average Aussie. 



> But there has been sometimes a perverse nostalgia for the sense of challenge.



I solve this problem by adventure travelling or just ordinary travel. There is nothing stopping me grabbing my back pack and peeing off somewhere and doing a hard core back packing adventure. I particularly like going to so called 3rd world countries with cultures far different than ours. So far I have travelled to 44 different countries and lived in a few as well. Give me that to work any day. I am getting itchy feet as I type now.:walker:


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## Julia (7 February 2011)

KurwaJegoMac said:


> Great thread Julia! I'm really enjoying hearing other people's stories. As for me, I'm 25 and only got into the whole investing world in the last 3 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kurwa...., Thank you for such a vivid picture of a family and how you grew your own attitude.  Somehow you have perfectly managed to convey the vulnerability of new citizens in a country far from their birth, where the freedoms and culture were so different.  So interesting.  Where those of us who have always known freedom of choice are sometimes criticised for being too conservative if we put money in a term deposit, for your parents this has been a major step forward in trust.
Just a great story.


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## Julia (7 February 2011)

tech/a said:


> At 18 my father said "You have no respect for money"---He is right.
> At 21 My new wife and I did a budget and had $5 left for us. Isaid
> I dont ever want to be in a position where I have to worry about money.
> 
> ...



Tech, it was you I was thinking about when I included the comment that some never want to fully retire, so much do they enjoy what they do.

I'd challenge, though, your comment that you 'have no respect for money'.
Don't you perhaps rather mean that for you money is not important of itself, but rather because of what can allow you to do, i.e. live in a comfortable home, travel at will, and perhaps most important of all, help other people, something which clearly gives you much pleasure.





danago said:


> I think my money-awareness really did start from a young age. My older generation relatives migrated to Australia in the early 1900's from Italy to what is now a largely Italian-based community. My grandparents (and many others in the community) worked hard to establish a fruit orchard which has been kept in the family and is now operated by my dad. From the age of around 7 or 8 onwards i would help pick and pack fruit, especially during the busy season while i was on school holidays. It wasn't a lot of money, but dad would always pay me in proportion to the number of hours i worked. I strongly believe that this helped me to appreciate the value of hard work from a young age.
> 
> I had never studied any economics or finance until university, so high school did not really play much of a direct role in my financial habits. The classes i did at school were some of the "harder" ones i.e. physics, chemistry, calculus etc. and i am generally quite competitive, so there was a lot of friendly competition between me and one other student to be the top in the classes. I think this same "driven" attitude has transferred itself to my bank account, where i challenge myself to do better than the average person.
> 
> If i was to give a specific reason as to why i try to be so careful with my money and make it grow as much as i can, I'd say for the financial security. I am not necessarily expecting to become so rich that i can buy whatever i want, but what i do hope for myself is that i can live comfortably without having to stress about money all the time, and if there is something that I'd like (within reason) i can afford to buy it.



danago, another great story about an immigrant family.


> It wasn't a lot of money, but dad would always pay me in proportion to the number of hours i worked. I strongly believe that this helped me to appreciate the value of hard work from a young age




I strongly agree here.

Perhaps the responses so far on this thread are a reflection of the type of membership a stock forum attracts.  But even so, I'm just so encouraged by reading these stories of so many of you who clearly appreciate the usefulness of money without making it your god.  Just so makes up for all the profligate spending  and lack of any sort of financial understanding which I was beginning to think was the norm.


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## Bill M (7 February 2011)

KurwaJegoMac said:


> Investing was never discussed at our home, it was always seen in a negative light. "So and so invested their money and blew it all" - those sort of stories that you hear all the time. They were brought up to 'put everything under the mattress' - not even trusting banks (although we did have money in our bank accounts, most was actually sitting around in cash). In post war communist Poland, money 'disappeared' sometimes so thats how they were raised and I guess living here they didn't know any better.



One of my best mates is a Polish Immigrant also, I have great respect for him. He came here on his own with a few American dollars. Now he has his own home, a big share portfolio and is going to retire soon. I really enjoyed his hardship stories from Poland too. It just goes to show that anyone can make it here in OZ, cheers and thanks for sharing.


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## Julia (7 February 2011)

I'm still hoping for a response from Wysiwyg whose two contrasting posts I quoted when I started this thread, i.e. from nothing to multiple millions in just ten years.
Wysiwyg???


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## Sean K (7 February 2011)

Money and it's trappings are the source of incredible hardship. 

Human nature is to blame.

But this basic instinct has allowed us to survive and climb to become kings of the jungle.

So, my attitude is formed by my genes and society in my present space and time.


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## Market Depth (7 February 2011)

I started work at age 14, as a Carpenter. I worked my guts out 6 days a week. When I discovered I could work for one company, and save some money to 'Buy' other companies, that would work for me as well. It changed my whole outlook towards money and money management, and my future employment. Suddenly I didn't have to accept just 'Any Old Job' just to make ends meet. I could 'Cherry Pick' the jobs I wanted to do at the price I wanted to be payed. I still work as a 'Traddie' from time to time, because I enjoy it. It's what got me started. And I have great respect for that.


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## KurwaJegoMac (8 February 2011)

Thanks for the feedback everyone 



Julia said:


> I'm still hoping for a response from Wysiwyg whose two contrasting posts I quoted when I started this thread, i.e. from nothing to multiple millions in just ten years.
> Wysiwyg???




I PM'd Wysiwyg with regards to this thread as perhaps he may not have seen it. Hopefully he's happy to share his story, i'd definitely love to hear it because it's quite an impressive achievement!


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## Calliope (8 February 2011)

My Scottish Presbyterian ancestry. I think making and retaining your money is like the art of wing-walking; 

"Never let go of something until you have got hold of something else".


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## Smurf1976 (8 February 2011)

My family being in very difficult financial circumstances during my high school years taught me a lot when it comes to money. A life changing experience certainly.

Every now and then, I'll deliberately walk home from work in the rain (a distance of 9km) with no coat or something like that. It's just a little reminder should I ever forget that money is valuable. Always a good opportunity for some thinking doing something like that.

But I'm still perplexed as to why anyone would actually want a new car every year, always have a new fridge and so on. It's just a fridge - a 5 year old one is just as good as a new one and it's the same with cars etc too. So I'm quite happy to keep my 11 year old car, though I do like knowing that I have the $ available to fix it should it break down and that I could pay cash for a new one if I really wanted to.


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## Smurf1976 (8 February 2011)

Calliope said:


> "Never let go of something until you have got hold of something else".



Now that's a comment that every politician in the country needs to be forced to comprehend...


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## Julia (8 February 2011)

Smurf1976 said:


> But I'm still perplexed as to why anyone would actually want a new car every year, always have a new fridge and so on. It's just a fridge - a 5 year old one is just as good as a new one and it's the same with cars etc too. So I'm quite happy to keep my 11 year old car, though I do like knowing that I have the $ available to fix it should it break down and that I could pay cash for a new one if I really wanted to.



So having enough money represents a sense of security, doesn't it.   You're not going to experience the anxiety that people without cash reserves will feel if the fridge dies.

I'm with you on feeling no compulsion to acquire new things when the existing model is fine.


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## Tysonboss1 (8 February 2011)

Security, But mainly freedom.


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## tech/a (8 February 2011)

> Tech, it was you I was thinking about when I included the comment that some never want to fully retire, so much do they enjoy what they do.




I guess if you become very good at something and people search you out its not hard to have continued Passion. Being in the position of not having to go to work if I Dont wish too makes it easier to go---if you understand what I mean.



> I'd challenge, though, your comment that you 'have no respect for money'.
> Don't you perhaps rather mean that for you money is not important of itself, but rather because of what can allow you to do, i.e. live in a comfortable home, travel at will, and perhaps most important of all, help other people, something which clearly gives you much pleasure.




Ive often contemplated what Dad meant and go back in thought to the many times he has repeated it to me. Now 87 (Dad) I haven't heard him use it since Ive been re married (11 yrs ago).
Dad was in the second WW and the great depression---he used to come home every night and mix up a batch of Cement sand and potash and pour into steel molds bricks for his house. He and his dad built his home and the one I grew up in---amazing.

Every Penny in those days counted.
Dad always saw/sees my life style as excessive and wasteful---and it was---to a degree still is--- in his eyes. 
I remember vividly his head shaking when he found out I paid for a season pass for a pensioner friend of mine who couldn't afford to go to the footy.
I also remember a very un happy father when I paid for 4 friends to fly to Melbourne and join us at a concert many years ago.---They couldn't afford it either.

He saw that as big noting.

Strangely he was less critical of his new John Deere ride on tractor mower which I had delivered a year ago when Mum told me he couldn't afford to fix the old slasher!
Took him a couple of weeks to work out where it came from!!

Its fun--life is good.


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## Gringotts Bank (8 February 2011)

Regarding money, my early learning was quite a mixed bag of positives and negatives.

Changing beliefs and attitudes can be extremely difficult, but this represents the core of all I do nowadays, regarding trading.  Occasionally I enjoy tweaking some systems but it's not a focus like it used to be.

If your attitude is right, it shouldn't matter too much which system or method you use.  A good example of this is what happened with the Turtles.  They were all given the rules and shown the results and yet only a few of them made money.  The explanation for this was that those who did poorly lacked discipline, but I don't believe this for a second.  

If you take 100 people off the street and let me interview them for 5 minutes, I bet I could tell you which of them will be able to make money trading, and it would have nothing to do with their application, intelligence, programming expertise, prior trading experience or any of that stuff.


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## KurwaJegoMac (8 February 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> If you take 100 people off the street and let me interview them for 5 minutes, I bet I could tell you which of them will be able to make money trading, and it would have nothing to do with their application, intelligence, programming expertise, prior trading experience or any of that stuff.




In your view, how would you be able to determine which people would be able to make money trading?


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## tech/a (8 February 2011)

KurwaJegoMac said:


> In your view, how would you be able to determine which people would be able to make money trading?




Ability to handle risk and apply it to opportunity.


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## Julia (8 February 2011)

tech/a said:


> I guess if you become very good at something and people search you out its not hard to have continued Passion. Being in the position of not having to go to work if I Dont wish too makes it easier to go---if you understand what I mean.



I do indeed.



> Ive often contemplated what Dad meant and go back in thought to the many times he has repeated it to me. Now 87 (Dad) I haven't heard him use it since Ive been re married (11 yrs ago).
> Dad was in the second WW and the great depression---he used to come home every night and mix up a batch of Cement sand and potash and pour into steel molds bricks for his house. He and his dad built his home and the one I grew up in---amazing.
> 
> Every Penny in those days counted.
> ...



So having money gives you pleasure in being able to give.   Do you ever consider that it might also confer a sense of power and the capacity to inspire gratitude amongst the people to whom you're giving?

I'm not at all suggesting you're being patronising here, Tech.    From all I've known about you over now many years, that's not your motive at all, rather a genuine desire to help.
But sometimes when I've helped someone out a little, I've wondered if I could be compromising their sense of independence.  



Gringotts Bank said:


> Regarding money, my early learning was quite a mixed bag of positives and negatives.
> 
> If your attitude is right, it shouldn't matter too much which system or method you use.  A good example of this is what happened with the Turtles.  They were all given the rules and shown the results and yet only a few of them made money.  The explanation for this was that those who did poorly lacked discipline, but I don't believe this for a second.



I'm a bit surprised to read this, GB.  I'd have thought self discipline was pretty high on the list of characteristics required for financial independence.
Why do you so disbelieve this?



> If you take 100 people off the street and let me interview them for 5 minutes, I bet I could tell you which of them will be able to make money trading, and it would have nothing to do with their application, intelligence, programming expertise, prior trading experience or any of that stuff.






KurwaJegoMac said:


> In your view, how would you be able to determine which people would be able to make money trading?



I echo Kurwa's question:  what questions would you ask and what answers would you receive to determine their capacity to make money?


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## Smurf1976 (8 February 2011)

Julia said:


> So having enough money represents a sense of security, doesn't it.   You're not going to experience the anxiety that people without cash reserves will feel if the fridge dies.
> 
> I'm with you on feeling no compulsion to acquire new things when the existing model is fine.



Exactly. It's about security first and foremost. I don't need or even want to be eating at top restaurants on a regular basis, driving a Porsche and living in a mansion. 

But I do want certainty that I will have something to eat, adequate transport for my actual needs, and a roof over my head. Having faced the reality of those things not being certain in the past, it does focus your priorities that is for sure.


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## Gringotts Bank (8 February 2011)

Julia said:


> I echo Kurwa's question:  what questions would you ask and what answers would you receive to determine their capacity to make money?





Maybe I'd ask them to lend me $3 for a coffee and see how they reacted.  Haha!  I'd work out some questions that gave me insight into their attitudes about money.  That's all I'm saying.  I'd do it because I believe it's important.  I'd be looking for an attitude similar to tech/a, but without the bankruptcies.    Most people who bankrupt would retain that tendency to do it again, IMO.  Others would learn from it and go forward in leaps and bounds.


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## Sean K (8 February 2011)

I still think, and probably always will, that money is just a means to an end. 

Define the end.

It will define your attitude to it.

For me, it's financial independence and never having to 'work' again. Then I can totally devote my time to family, friends and society in need. I suppose it's a best guess what that $$ value is depending on your vision. For me, the bar is pretty low.


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## Whiskers (8 February 2011)

So_Cynical said:


> What formed your attitude toward money?
> 
> I would say that not having any was probably the biggest influence.




Yeah, ditto here! 

I remember when I left school and first started work I was pretty thrifty, well more like frugal I suppose, with my cash but generous with my time and tolerance for others.

I guess that is a trait that I learned from my parents... they were pretty frugal, making every dollar go ar far as it could, not afraid to use hand-me-downs or second hand goods or equipment. They always managed to get by quite comfortably on what they had with a little saved for a rainy day... well enough so as not to get the full pension anyway.

But I think our real character, in particular money management skills develop through the teens to when we leave home and manage on our own... and while I believe in the first instance it's shaped by what we observed from the people closest to us, there is also intrinsic personality traits (inner spirit or soul) that wrestle for control against our learned behaviour.

Also, the dynamics of new relationships can influence, often unconsciously at first, our money management practices.

For example, when I was single I saved and paid cash for my first car, motor bike and boat etc, even only borrowed a small amount for my second car, but paid it off ahead of time. Once married the (ex)wife handled the money mostly as I set about working up some income to build the house and have kids etc. 

After some years the cash was getting harder to go around and the savings were dwindling and I just worked harder and longer. 

Eventually I suspected something wasn't adding up and tried to organise a household budget... well didn't that cause some hostility. Whereas she didn't work for income (just to help out her parents) in the early years of the marriage, she had started work again and the catch-phrase became, this is my money and I don't have to explain to you what I do with it. You just have to earn more to support your family! 

I learnt later this was a guilt trick that controlling (toxic) people play to try to keep you (me) subservient.

The lesson here is often it's the one closest to us that we trust most and unquestiongly believe and frame our decision making around. My ex developed a taste for luxury goods and the good life and started charging up credit all over town, even borrowing from the petty cash box where she worked to buy basic food for the kids at times and tell me so and succeeded for awhile in making me feel inferior and inadequate. I fell for the trick and borrowed against my business to offsett the extraudinary cash flow drain to personal drawings for awhile.

But eventually what I realised is that she was screwing with my head with guilt tricks to change my attitude to money management from one of living within your means with minimal borrowings and paying cash for a discount in most cases, to feeling guilty for not providing enough cash for her to live off... err  not providing cash faster than she could spend it and resorting to borrowing to buy the peace in the household. 

Well, after a while (after seperation) battling to find a few coins for a loaf of bread and tin of baked beans to get by to pay day, I eventually cleared my head and got back to the basics, my original attitude to money management and started to rebuild again.

The moral of my story is love, lust and luxury can quite easily corrupt your attitude to money management.  

Things ain't always what they appear to be when you have personal or business relationships with other people when money is at stake.

Didn't someone famously say 'money is the root of all evil'. So by association if your life or relationships depend on money, there is most likely something evil there.


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## Whiskers (9 February 2011)

Bill M said:


> One of my best mates is a Polish Immigrant also, I have great respect for him. He came here on his own with a few American dollars. Now he has his own home, a big share portfolio and is going to retire soon. I really enjoyed his hardship stories from Poland too. It just goes to show that anyone can make it here in OZ, cheers and thanks for sharing.




Yeah, I know a few similar Italian, Maltese, Chinese, Lebanese etc of similar vain.

While privately studying a bit of psychology years ago I learnt that WWII survivors had a remarkable ability to overcome their personal and financial loss and knuckle down to make a new start, often quite spectacularly... unlike later generations who tended to demand welfare and the government fix everything for them.



Smurf1976 said:


> But I'm still perplexed as to why anyone would actually want a new car every year, always have a new fridge and so on. It's just a fridge - a 5 year old one is just as good as a new one and it's the same with cars etc too. So I'm quite happy to keep my 11 year old car, though I do like knowing that I have the $ available to fix it should it break down and that I could pay cash for a new one if I really wanted to.




That's how I feel now. When I was younger it was a bit of buying a new car because I could quite easily as well as a bit of keeping up with the Joneses, but for me at least my outlook on life and priorities changed to just what you say below. I recently bought a 1997 model because I struck a very cheap deal, it was in very good condition, low mileage, had the main mod cons and the way I figure it does the same job about 90% as effectively and for a fraction, about an 1/8th of the capital outlay of a new one. Afterall, it's a continuously depreciating asset and I feel better putting the difference to income or asset generation.



Smurf1976 said:


> Exactly. It's about security first and foremost. I don't need or even want to be eating at top restaurants on a regular basis, driving a Porsche and living in a mansion.
> 
> But I do want certainty that I will have something to eat, adequate transport for my actual needs, and a roof over my head. Having faced the reality of those things not being certain in the past, it does focus your priorities that is for sure.







Julia said:


> Dad always saw/sees my life style as excessive and wasteful---and it was---to a degree still is--- in his eyes.
> I remember vividly his head shaking when he found out I paid for a season pass for a pensioner friend of mine who couldn't afford to go to the footy.
> I also remember a very un happy father when I paid for 4 friends to fly to Melbourne and join us at a concert many years ago.---They couldn't afford it either.
> 
> He saw that as big noting.




That was very generous of you Julia. Did your friends appreciate it as a favor or see it as big noting? Often what I find when I go out of my way a little to do something like that for someone is they return a favour some time later when you really need or appreciate something. It just spreads so much good will towards good people who are capable and often do reciprocate generously when they are able to.



> Strangely he was less critical of his new John Deere ride on tractor mower which I had delivered a year ago when Mum told me he couldn't afford to fix the old slasher!
> Took him a couple of weeks to work out where it came from!!




You mean he was even a little critical of you helping out your old man? Did he keep the tractor?


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## tech/a (9 February 2011)

> I'm not at all suggesting you're being patronising here, Tech. From all I've known about you over now many years, that's not your motive at all, rather a genuine desire to help.
> But sometimes when I've helped someone out a little, I've wondered if I could be compromising their sense of independence.




Very much at the forefront of thought.

Both of my kids have dad's backing but not charity.
They can and do fend for themselves. They were not spoilt but were given opportunity---it was up to them to take it.
I'm not Paying Kris's HEX debt. As a Doctor of Physics he realizes the investment in himself comes at a cost---one I know only too well.

On other fronts generosity and making available opportunity for the less fortunate (as I see them) doesn't always go to plan. While I have more good experiences than bad---the bad ones have been Horrific! Some people just cant help themselves when it comes to money---they would steel from their own mother.---their attitude is
"They/he can afford it"
Makes plain criminal activity OK---
In cases like this I do have a Dark side.---more *Dark BLACK.*

I must admit I have made some bad choices when it comes to being charitable---and it has been when I have been the MOST charitable that its blown up in my face----

*WHISKERS*



That was my text not Julia's
Yes he kept it I use it all the time to cut his Grass!

As for friends I do it in such a way as it doesn't embarrass them-- Xmas or Birthday or I had this given to me (White lie). Just sort out a meal bill with no fuss just saying its taken care of. Its not a weekly occurrence.


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## KurwaJegoMac (9 February 2011)

Great stories everyone! Keep them coming 

Further to Tech/a's post ive found that most people ask "please give me money" or "if i give you $$ how much can you make me?"

No one ever asks, "Can you teach me how to be better with my money?"

'Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life'


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## Whiskers (9 February 2011)

tech/a said:


> *WHISKERS*
> 
> That was my text not Julia's




Ooops  sorry bout that tech (and Julia)... t'was a wee bit late and it sems I messed up when selecting the bits I wanted to quote. 




> Yes he kept it I use it all the time to cut his Grass!
> 
> As for friends I do it in such a way as it doesn't embarrass them-- Xmas or Birthday or I had this given to me (White lie). Just sort out a meal bill with no fuss just saying its taken care of. Its not a weekly occurrence.




Yeah, I like that approach too. It also gives them the opportunity to 'fess up' later if and when the time is right for them to acknowledge (and recipricate when opertune) the helping hand they recieved.


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## tech/a (9 February 2011)

Whiskers said:


> Ooops  sorry bout that tech (and Julia)... t'was a wee bit late and it sems I messed up when selecting the bits I wanted to quote.
> 
> Yeah, I like that approach too. It also gives them the opportunity to 'fess up' later if and when the time is right for them to acknowledge (and recipricate when opertune) the helping hand they recieved.




I dont expect anything from dad.
But smile when he rings and says he ran into a tree of has a puncture and ofcourse I get it taken care of.---because I bought it! Brilliant reasoning!


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## Julia (9 February 2011)

Re the phrase "money is the root of all evil", the actual original words were



> For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.




apparently from the Bible.

It makes much more sense.   There's nothing intrinsically wrong with money.  We all need it.  But to make it an end in itself usually seems to end in unhappiness.


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## Whiskers (9 February 2011)

Julia said:


> Re the phrase "money is the root of all evil", the actual original words were
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep, that the point I was trying to make.


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## sinner (9 February 2011)

Hi Julia,

Great thread. I decided to respond because my story seemed so different to everyone else who posted.

History, parents are both uni educated professional migrants (Iran-Iraq war on the Iran side, came here when I was 1). Both had to re-educate to be recognised by the Australian system so there was hard work to get where they are but no back breaking labor or double shifts involved.

We weren't poor but not rich either, so we never went hungry or missing the important things but I do remember haggling for a $30 xmas present based on my grades one year.

Basically I developed an indifference or even distaste for money very early on in my life because parents would often attach strings to it. So until I had a job I rarely asked for money unless it was important to me at the time. 

Got lucky in the sense that I managed my foot in the IT profession door well before "my time", so I was working for professional money each day after school while most of my friends were still stacking shelves. Don't get me wrong though I've stacked plenty a shelf and even been a spruiker at Luna Park.

The value of money for me was always the independence provided, rather than the ability to spend nominal amounts of money on cars, alcohol, mobile phone plans that were always the cause of requests for loans from my mates and dubbed me the nickname "Bank of Sinner".

Due to family stress in 2006/2007 I started spending a lot of time at my best friends house and became close mates with her father. Turns out he is a gold bug and would often quote the price of gold to me in AUD and USD and tell me about the Federal Reserve etc. I didn't understand any of it but it piqued my interest.

Over the next two years I was researching the gold market in a passive way, to me it was just a non-BS version of the financial news, why did I care if gold went to $5000, I could earn $5000 before it got there! But in hindsight I was absorbing the information of supply/demand, charting technicals and gold market specifics through simple osmosis.

During my uni degree I landed a job at a major cable television providers master control room, working 12 hour shifts from 7pm-7am for $38/hr. High stress role monitoring and maintaining a millions of dollars per day encryption system. At this point I was studying full time and working 24-36 hours a week on nights and weekends. The wage money began piling up hard and I was still completely indifferent to it. 

However this job allowed me to sit and watch the European and NY markets roll live all night, right up until the close. I began to develop a passion for charting and 24 hour markets. 

Around this time I moved some of my savings into physical gold and took my super out of the market. I pestered my parents to do the same. But my father, who is a macro-economics professor with numerous publications etc scoffed and ridiculed me saying all my information was wrong, doomsday talk etc etc. He eventually only conceded that he should have bought some gold and moved his super out of the market after it was too late (he wouldn't even concede after Lehman popped).

Later he told me that in 2009 during one of his classes his students asked

"Did you see the GFC coming?"
"No, but my son did and he was right on the dot!"
"Does he study econ?"
"No, comp sci"
""

heheheh

Anyway, still being quite new to the whole thing I was enamored with the whole gold bug thing and was big on Jim Rogers. I wanted to be in on the energy/gold/Asia play. So being the comp geek that I am started widening my range of financial blogs and forums to look through, and found ASF.

Thanks to ASF, I ended up buying parcels KAR, ESG, CVN, IAU, TRY, IGR all around their 2008/early 2009 lows to fit Rogers concepts. I also picked up some IZZ and IHK at the time. This cost me the bulk of my savings, so after the purchases I was pretty much locked out of the market unless I wanted to liquidate or put more money in. So I just continued to work and live, watching the realtime charts as often as I could.

In 2009 I finished my degree and took a job at UniMelb. Decided the move to Melb would be easier with more cash and it wasn't apparent that there was about to be a hyperinflationary collapse, so I liquidated the majority of my holdings with some shares left in each company. The profits were fantastic, I was very happy with it. Also around this period, I liquidated lots of my physical gold holdings and converted it to silver. In hindsight, this was a great move, and I am about to liquidate the silver at almost triple the entry price for a switch back to gold.

However, still for me it was just a matter of "fun", I wasn't sure why I was doing any of it except it was very interesting. My living costs were low, so I didn't feel like I was doing it to make more money or whatever. 

By now I was flush with cash and well acquainted with forex and futures and leverage and began trading the GBPUSD or EURGBP during London session with my stock profits when I would come home from work. This was a trial by fire and completely burned away all the gold bug thought process. In the end price is price, if you're not right you're wrong.  However, I was lucky to enter these markets at an interesting point and it was mildly profitable rather than horribly unprofitable in hindsight. Now my gold bug past forms a sort of fundamental basis for my understanding of the markets.

These 5 in a row blocks of 12 hour rounds of intraday trading during lulls at work fueled my passion even more and somewhere along the line I came across the principle of "Income, Savings, Investment". If you don't mind I'll re-write what I wrote down as notes  not that long ago.
*
Income: Income is the money result of any productive activity (not including trading, earning interest or earning rent).
Savings: Savings should be safe, liquid and easily accessible. A portion should remain in physical gold, the rest in hard and soft cash spread across various financial institutions. Savings should be retained in increments of "months worth of living expenses" and you should have at least a year worth of living expenses before investing in anything but 90 day term deposits.
Investment: After savings are secure, retain a portion as seed money for "trading/investing" business. This should be split, majority (say, 70%) going directly into low risk bonds and notes diversified across govt and corporate sectors. 
The minority (say, 30%), along with collected coupons and yield of the majority, can be implemented into higher risk strategies like swing trading and options markets. That way the principal of your "investment" seed money never gets touched.*

For me this was the formative experience which *made* my attitude towards money, rather than being indifferent to it.

Now I could see,

Income is the result of a happy existence in healthy society, if you are unhealthy or unhappy you will be unproductive and commensurate income will not be a result of your efforts.
Savings are the result of deferred consumption of income, without an income there can be no additions to the savings pool and in all likelihood a net reduction.
Investment is the result of excess savings capacity and has the potential to increase the returns on savings as well as expand a net asset base (through the addition of stock certificates, long term bonds and gold bullion) thereby reducing reliance on income. Plus, it is really fun!

For me this interdependent harmony was only a relatively recent epiphany, but this attitude towards money completely changed my outlook on life!


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## Julia (9 February 2011)

Sinner, thank you.  It's a fascinating story..

When I read accounts of growth like this, all my despair about people not taking responsibility for their own outcomes almost disappears.

Just one aspect of what you say puzzles me a bit, i.e. you observe that you had almost a distaste for money.   Could you elaborate a bit on that?


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## Muschu (9 February 2011)

I did a google search ages ago and found a website with "quotes on wealth" or "wealth quotes".
It made for interesting reading on the issue.  Some quite contradictory.


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## sinner (10 February 2011)

Julia said:


> Sinner, thank you.  It's a fascinating story..
> 
> When I read accounts of growth like this, all my despair about people not taking responsibility for their own outcomes almost disappears.
> 
> Just one aspect of what you say puzzles me a bit, i.e. you observe that you had almost a distaste for money.   Could you elaborate a bit on that?




Sure. The distaste was just because my only experiences had been with "strings attached"...

"We gave you money to go to the movie with your friend, why don't you XYZ more..."

The next time I would go to ask for some money the memory of last times hassles would be on my mind.

So I took to things which didn't require money or only small amounts of money, like library, park, visit a friend, computer (you wouldn't believe how good I was at getting free dialup internet), etc.

This formed my tastes so even when the money started coming in all I wanted was books, plants, driving around with my mates, a new computer to build every couple of years, fast internet, etc and mostly indifferent to the surplus.


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## springhill (10 February 2011)

For myself, my family have a primary industry business, it's all i ever wanted to do as a youngster. I spent every spare moment i could after school on our orchard. When i graduated year 12, the property next door, also an orchard (albeit, rundown and neglected) came up for sale. My family said if i intended to work on the orchard, they would buy the next door property, if not it was too much work for my uncle and ageing Nonno. I decided, the orchard life was for me. Due to this, they had to sell a few investment properties to pay 50% of the value of the land for sale and borrow the rest. My uncle basically went without wages for 2 years to help pay off our debt. I earned the princely sum of 10k a year for the first 4 years and seem to have been behind the wage curve ever since. Yet as i grew older and stopped wasting my meagre savings on Contiki holidays, chasing skirt and ripping it up with the boys, i decided a wage based lifestyle wasn't for me and became interested in shares. The first few years i could've done extremely well, but never knew when to sell and subsequently suffered consequences of rising, then crashing share prices. Now i have a system that suits me with rules i tend to stick to. My $50k portfolio 8 months ago is now nearly quadruple that, and the share market represents, to me, a better life that is attainable not just by sweating my guts out on the land. I work hard for my wage and invest it accordingly, though i am not adverse to high risk. I want to provide for myself and my partner.
My attitude to money was forged in the hard, back breaking work of my much loved generations preceeding me, and my own back breaking work aswell. I don't see money attained by success as 'free money', i see it as another opprtunity to invest wisely again and reap the success of that investment. I earned it hard and make sure it works damned hard for me, because i know my next paycheck will be soaked with the sweat of our families labours.
Hope this wasn't too melodramatic a read, but i enjoyed expressing what earning, investment and even learning on ASF means to me.


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## kgee (10 February 2011)

*Can I ask...How did the people who picked the fruit turn out?*

your 







springhill said:


> For myself, my family have a primary industry business, it's all i ever wanted to do as a youngster. I spent every spare moment i could after school on our orchard. When i graduated year 12, the property next door, also an orchard (albeit, rundown and neglected) came up for sale. My family said if i intended to work on the orchard, they would buy the next door property, if not it was too much work for my uncle and ageing Nonno. I decided, the orchard life was for me. Due to this, they had to sell a few investment properties to pay 50% of the value of the land for sale and borrow the rest. My uncle basically went without wages for 2 years to help pay off our debt. I earned the princely sum of 10k a year for the first 4 years and seem to have been behind the wage curve ever since. Yet as i grew older and stopped wasting my meagre savings on Contiki holidays, chasing skirt and ripping it up with the boys, i decided a wage based lifestyle wasn't for me and became interested in shares. The first few years i could've done extremely well, but never knew when to sell and subsequently suffered consequences of rising, then crashing share prices. Now i have a system that suits me with rules i tend to stick to. My $50k portfolio 8 months ago is now nearly quadruple that, and the share market represents, to me, a better life that is attainable not just by sweating my guts out on the land. I work hard for my wage and invest it accordingly, though i am not adverse to high risk. I want to provide for myself and my partner.
> My attitude to money was forged in the hard, back breaking work of my much loved generations preceeding me, and my own back breaking work aswell. I don't see money attained by success as 'free money', i see it as another opprtunity to invest wisely again and reap the success of that investment. I earned it hard and make sure it works damned hard for me, because i know my next paycheck will be soaked with the sweat of our families labours.
> Hope this wasn't too melodramatic a read, but i enjoyed expressing what earning, investment and even learning on ASF means to me.


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## kgee (10 February 2011)

*Re: Can I ask...How did the people who picked the fruit turn out?*



kgee said:


> your



How did the people who picked fruit for you turn out?
Just curious did your family stay in touch with these people?
we are talking about attitudes right?


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## Julia (10 February 2011)

sinner said:


> Sure. The distaste was just because my only experiences had been with "strings attached"...
> 
> "We gave you money to go to the movie with your friend, why don't you XYZ more..."
> 
> ...



 Ah, I see.  Thanks, Sinner.  Makes perfect sense.



springhill said:


> Hope this wasn't too melodramatic a read, but i enjoyed expressing what earning, investment and even learning on ASF means to me.



 On the contrary, really interesting.  Many thanks, springhill.


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## tech/a (10 February 2011)

> Income is the result of a happy existence in healthy society, if you are unhealthy or unhappy you will be unproductive and commensurate income will not be a result of your efforts.




Great piece Sinner glad you shared.
How very true the above paragraph is ---I see it all the time.


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## springhill (10 February 2011)

*Re: Can I ask...How did the people who picked the fruit turn out?*



kgee said:


> How did the people who picked fruit for you turn out?
> Just curious did your family stay in touch with these people?
> we are talking about attitudes right?




Our orchard is 90% family run kgee, so if you mean previous employees, then there aren't any really. Maybe the odd casual along the way, but there is one old fuddy-duddy former casual i still see regularly. Many great times spent stirring him up!


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## Sir Osisofliver (11 February 2011)

Nice thread Julia - I'll weigh in. My story is a bit different to what's been written so some may get value out of it. I hope the saga isn't too long.

My mother was born with a silver spoon. Big silver spoon and inherited the equivalent of $20+ million in todays money from my Grandfather when he died, before I was born.  She was one of 7 children. I would love to have met my grandfather as many of my Aunties would tell me how much I reminded them of him. (Maybe there are some good genes I inherited). 

My mother however made some poor choices in her life, her first husband (and my "Father") being a major one.  In a little over ten years my parents went from being wealthy to being destitute - due mainly to my fathers destructive alcohol and gambling addictions. My parents divorced when I was 9 and my deadbeat father never paid a cent in maintenance. (Family law was toothless in those days and needless to say my relationship with my father is non-existant. He could have been a man and taken responsibility for his children and decided not to). 

Looking back I don't know how my mother managed to raise four kids through our early teenage years on her own. Money was *extremely* tight to the point of non existance. We lived hand to mouth, not really knowing whether things would be better in the future. It was a difficult time and most certainly had an impact on how I view money. My brothers and I all worked jobs to help out with the finances and gave everything we earned to our mother to help pay for the basic necessities of life. My  brothers and I had a paper round in primary school, worked in fast food restaurants, mowed lawns..did whatever we could to help out. So I've felt the effects of what not having money feels like during my formative years. I remember once during this time finding $100 note on the street. We could have used that money. It was an appreciable percentage of a months income for our family. Nevertheless my mother took the hundred to the local police station and handed it in as lost property - we then got the hundred back four weeks later when no-one had come to collect it...and my mother put it aside for me in a bank account. I remember crying about it at the time and it still makes me a little misty-eyed when I think about it. She was an amazing woman.

In my middle teens my mother met a wonderful man who I consider to be my Father and who had an enormous influence on me. He was an incredibly hard-working professional (legal) and instilled some fantastic lessons for me. One of which involved finding me the worst school holiday job he could and at the end of it sitting down and discussing whether I wanted to go to uni or not 

I continued working after school and weekend jobs and with Dad as guarantor bought my first piece of property the day I turned 18 (and quite frankly I gouged the seller - I'd learned to be ruthless when I needed to be).

Eighteen months later I purchased a second property with equity from the first and took another three years to completed my science-based University degree. During this time I was still working nights and weekends and saving money. Once I completed my degree I started at my first real job, and continued investing into property. I was known locally to several real estate agents as "that baby faced assassin" because of my track record in securing good property at good prices. I still however consider myself a shares orientated investor at this time. By 25 I had four properties, one completely paid off and was earning a good salary and well on my way to my first million. (I didn't even know the share market existed at this point. My Dad's experience was in property and he gave me a good grounding in how to make that asset class work.)

Unfortuantely it wasn't the right career choice for me so after a several years I went back to Uni as a mature aged student and completed a second degree, in Commerce - where I met my now wife. (Having sold one of my properties to finance myself as a poor student and focus on my studies - I'd had enough of not being able to concentrate in class because of working two or three jobs).

It was during my second stint at uni that I became interested in the share market. I was learning about it in my degree and starting punting with some money I had set aside. Call it luck, call it timing, call it anything but experience - but I did well. So when I left uni with my newly minted Commerce degree I hit up some local stockbrokers looking for an entry level position - which I got and worked my way up to a high net worth private client advisor with a top five firm and continued my education at the same time - getting postgrad quals in FP, MBA and doing all the stuff required by the FSR changes in '03.

I became disillusioned with my chosen career after about ten years. Sure the money was good, I'd learnt how to make a buck in the share market. I'd refined my system of investing and trading, I'd made my first million and then some, but the industry was too cut-throat. I started feeling restricted and wanting to help people and being with the company I was with felt fettered in doing so. With them it was much more about the unholy dollar and sales rather than ensuring clients financial freedom.

I left the industry and joined a firm where the focus was more on education rather than simply sales, which is where I am to this day. I'm at a position where I don't need to work - I do so because I gain great satisfaction from what I do.

*Lessons I learnt about money.*
Money is only important when you don't have it. When you have it be generous with it - you can't take it with you.
Charity begins at home.
Hard work gets you money but hard work needs balance - don't neglect your family.


Cheers  
Sir O


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## Julia (11 February 2011)

Many thanks, Sir O.  It's a great story and one of which you can be very proud.

So, in your case it sounds as though your attitude toward money came from two directly opposite examples, i.e. the waste exhibited by your biological father, and the skills and determination of your mother.

I don't suppose it seemed so at the time, but in hindsight you probably had the best of both worlds in terms of 'learning'.



> *Lessons I learnt about money.*
> Money is only important when you don't have it.



Absolutely agree.  If I could hold on to just one basic maxim about money, this would be it.



> When you have it be generous with it - you can't take it with you.
> Charity begins at home.
> Hard work gets you money but hard work needs balance - don't neglect your family.




So obviously you have acquired wisdom as well as financial success.


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## sinner (11 February 2011)

Sir Osisofliver said:


> I left the industry and joined a firm where the focus was more on education rather than simply sales, which is where I am to this day. I'm at a position where I don't need to work - I do so because I gain great satisfaction from what I do.
> Cheers
> Sir O




Hey Sir O!

I am trying to shift my career out of CompSci area into financials but it's proving difficult even with some great advice from one of the members here.

Basically I'm looking for some company to recognise I'm a compsci guy with finance passion and take me under their wing. I can code systems, indicators, data processing/validation, etc. I can run stats. I can trawl information off the net faster than anyone I know.

All stuff which serves me well once I come home from work and turn on the tickers, but seemingly useless when it comes to getting my foot in the door. Everyone wants quants to write HFT these days (I am looking at seek all the time). It's not even like they're doing much except collecting liquidity rebates, certainly no Markowitz style operations going down from what I can see.

Any advice from someone like yourself as to how to make the switch? Posting the question here rather than PMing you because I figure other members might have thoughts too.

Hope it isn't too off-topic.


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## matty77 (11 February 2011)

My attitude defiantly formed from my parents and how they managed money. They were very successful with a few business and they worked very very hard to have that success but they also knew how to spend money and waste money. I always remember the amounts of $ that would be wasted on over seas holidays, buying then selling real estate at the wrong time... the list goes on and on. Funnily enough they were excellent managers and business owners, but when it came to managing their money they had no idea. Luckily they made so much it really doesn't matter.... as they are still very well off. 

I guess seeing all this money get wasted taught me from a very early age that investing for the future is so important. Putting that nest egg away, even a little bit at a time really starts to add up after awhile. 

My second big lesson in my life was starting my own business (a franchise that will remain nameless....) and loosing approx $35,000 at the age of 22. It was not my fault, I basically got screwed over, lawyers got involved... and I lost all of my life savings that I had saved up from working since I was 14. If ONLY I just put a deposit on a house back then instead!

Fast forward 10 years down the track and things are going great, and my portfolio just keeps growing so I cant complain.

The hardest lesson I learnt was when I lost everything, it seriuosly ate away at me for a few years to get over that loss and have the will to start again.


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## Sir Osisofliver (11 February 2011)

Julia said:


> Many thanks, Sir O.  It's a great story and one of which you can be very proud.
> 
> So, in your case it sounds as though your attitude toward money came from two directly opposite examples, i.e. the waste exhibited by your biological father, and the skills and determination of your mother.




Perhaps I should expand a bit - not that you are wrong here Julia, more that I think it could be useful to explain my mindset for how and why I invest.  It's somewhat shameful to admit but one of my earliest memories is helping my biological father look for mistakenly dropped winning tickets at the race track. I would have been four or five years old at the time.

To this day I feel about gambling like a reformed smoker feels about someone lighting up a 12 inch havana. Gambling = bad juju. I personally love playing poker. It's a fun game, especially when you can card count like me, however I will *never* play poker for money. *Ever.* To do so would make me far too similar to a man that makes me cringe that we share genetic material.

It's why I took so long to find the sharemarket because in my uneducated state I equated investing in the sharemarket to gambling, mistakenly believing that for every winner there had to be a loser. 

The way I invest therefore means that I have to have an incredibly solid foundation for putting money into something. If I don't I'm gambling. Gambling=bad juju. I prefer small, consistent returns that I can compound, rather than big massive punty winners (although I have had a few big punty winners over the years). 

So the way I think about risk is a very emotive subject for me. Intellectually I realize that my negative experiences mean that in plenty of occasions I have been too cautious in balancing my risk reward and its been something I struggled with for a number of years until I found systematic trading.



> I don't suppose it seemed so at the time, but in hindsight you probably had the best of both worlds in terms of 'learning'.



Yeah I can see that, but I have to say I would have preffered the education I am giving my kids rather than the way I learned it 


> Absolutely agree.  If I could hold on to just one basic maxim about money, this would be it.
> 
> 
> 
> So obviously you have acquired wisdom as well as financial success.




Wheres that Blushing smilie ??

Thanks Julia

Cheers

Sir O


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## Sir Osisofliver (11 February 2011)

sinner said:


> Hey Sir O!
> 
> I am trying to shift my career out of CompSci area into financials but it's proving difficult even with some great advice from one of the members here.
> 
> ...




So you are saying you want to be an evil broker? <- Semi joking

Look I'd have to say that as much as it may hurt no one is going to hire a CompSci guy over someone that's done say a Commerce degree from the big end of town. You _could_ try the Prop shops. Some of them have intakes where they will train you to become RG146 compliant as part of the employment but basically I think you will need to look at it as a career change and take the plunge. 

Go back to Uni and do Econ, Stat, Bus units. Do some vocational stuff and get your RG independently and you will be seen as a go getter. I think you may need to reskill just to get your piece of paper on something that you are doing anyway. Personally I don't see the benefit or the attraction. The only formalized training you will likely receive (or the only stuff that was provided free to me whan I was a broker at least) will be in sales techniques. The rest of it (technical and fundamental analysis) you can learn outside of that environment without needing full immersion.

Cheers

Sir O


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## Julia (11 February 2011)

Sir Osisofliver said:


> The only formalized training you will likely receive (or the only stuff that was provided free to me whan I was a broker at least) will be in sales techniques.
> Sir O



Ah, the naked truth about financial advisers!
Sorry for the diversion.  I only dare put this up because I'm pretty sure you don't disagree in terms of the majority of your erstwhile colleagues, Sir O.


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## GumbyLearner (15 February 2011)

These days

Global Kleptocrats


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## burglar (15 February 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> ... Global Kleptocrats




Mesmerizing video!!


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## ENP (15 February 2011)

*Does it have to do with how you were brought up?  What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?*

My mum and Dad were always hard working. My mum has worked all over the place, at temp jobs, admin, etc. My Dad is in business banking and has been in Branch Banking all his life. If always felt open about talking about money with my Dad especially.

When I was little, I was very determined and very patient in getting what I wanted. My brother, sister and I all got pocket money each week for doing chores around the house. My brother and sister always spent their money each week, I continued to save mine for about 2 years without spending hardly any of it. I used to save up $300-400 at a time (saving $5 each week as pocket money). My first big purchase was a cricket bat. I absolutely loved the fact that I saved long and hard for that cricket bat and made me enjoy and cherish it so much more. 

With knowing that, my next purchase was a surfboard a few years later for the same price. I had learnt my lesson that savings = better things to spend money on. Delayed gratification I was very good at. 

Next was when I got a local paper run on Friday evenings after school when I was about 12. I worked 2-3 hours each Friday in rain, hail or shine and got paid about $3 for it. This was only 10 years ago so $1 per hour was miserable pay. I didn't mind. I was saving money! This further taught me the value of hard work and exchanging hard work for dollars. 

My next experience was when I was waiting with my Mum at Auckland Airport and our flight was delayed. We we bored and my Mum decided to go to the bookstore in the Airport to read some magazines. I wanted to read cricket magazines but a purple book with the title "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" caught my eye. I took it to my mum and asked her if she would buy it for me. She said no, but she would get it out of the library for me when we got home from our trip down to Christchurch. 

Once I read that book, my life changed.

I knew I wanted to be a rich man. 

Several weeks after I read the book I searched the internet and read books about business ideas for kids. I came across and idea that fit me perfectly. I would buy hanging flower baskets, buy all the potting mix, buy the seedlings, put them all together and sell "Hanging Herb Baskets"

I made about $20 of them. They cost me about $11 or $12 to make each and then I sold them for $20 each. I used to take 4-5 of them at a time and sit outside the local school at the end of the day and try sell them to the school mums picking up their kids. This worked extremely well and I made a handy $160 odd profit from my original $240 investment. Not a bad return for about a month and in total only 5-10 hours work. 

After that, I just kept devouring every book on finance, budgeting, investment, real estate, stocks etc. During "study period" at school, I used to read these books while others were goofing around sleeping. 

Now move forward, I'm 22, still budgeting and disciplined with my spending and with a university degree under my belt and 1.5 years of working have managed to save up about $20,000. 

*Was there any influence via your school years?*

Even though I'm a pretty B grade student at school, I managed to come first in the whole school for my age level in accounting. Mainly because I was so interested in business. But apart from that, I learnt nothing from school about money. Although I did learn about all the friends who I played cricket with and who's Dad's were quite wealthy, all owned their own businesses rather than work jobs. 

*What effect did 'wanting to do better than others have', if that was a factor?*

I've never wanted to do better than individuals. I am generally not a hugely competitive person. I just want to be looked up to and respected for my hard work and growing intelligence about money. Not many people ask me for advice. 

*Or if you've struggled with being able to save and invest proficiently, what factors do you think have influenced this?*

No income coming in during university isn't great for wanting to save and invest. It taught me a lot about budgeting and stretching a dollar. Having money coming in periodically from my full time job now makes it much easier to save and invest.


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## KurwaJegoMac (15 February 2011)

ENP said:


> No income coming in during university isn't great for wanting to save and invest. It taught me a lot about budgeting and stretching a dollar. Having money coming in periodically from my full time job now makes it much easier to save and invest.




Very true. The trap that one needs to avoid is that once you do start full time work that you don't increase your standard of living too dramatically. Obviously no one wants to live like a uni student without a job, but it doesn't mean that once you have a full time job you start living like a millionaire. I see lots of my fellow graduates making this mistake, wondering why they are older than me and have no house and are 40K in debt yet earn the same as me.

For me I increased my standard of living by about 20% compared to uni life. I was working during Uni so it wasn't so bad - my pay has more than doubled first year out, but I spend only 20% more than I used to. And let me tell you, the savings are growing at a phenomenal rate and I still enjoy my life thoroughly. 

Also agree about the Rich Dad Poor Dad book. Not the best written book but it was my first book on finance too and got me seriously thinking about getting out of the 'rat race'. Never looked back since 

Thanks for sharing ENP!


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## sinner (15 February 2011)

ENP said:


> *
> I made about $20 of them. They cost me about $11 or $12 to make each and then I sold them for $20 each. I used to take 4-5 of them at a time and sit outside the local school at the end of the day and try sell them to the school mums picking up their kids. This worked extremely well and I made a handy $160 odd profit from my original $240 investment. Not a bad return for about a month and in total only 5-10 hours work.*



*

Awesome post ENP but this was my favorite bit.

Great ROI!*


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## Julia (15 February 2011)

ENP said:


> *Does it have to do with how you were brought up?  What attitudes you observed in your parents re saving/spending/investing?*
> 
> My mum and Dad were always hard working. My mum has worked all over the place, at temp jobs, admin, etc. My Dad is in business banking and has been in Branch Banking all his life. If always felt open about talking about money with my Dad especially........................



Fantastic post, ENP.  Might print it off and use with some of the school students in our mentoring program.  Thank you.


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## Bill M (16 February 2011)

Hi Julia, I am enjoying this thread too. The main theme that applies to most contributors is that they seem to know the value of money. They know how hard they and their parents worked for it and they know how to make it and more importantly invest it. 

I was talking to an Aussie Ex Pat mate of mine in bar over a few beers once. I said to him how is it you and I can come over here and just sit back drink beer and watch the sunset over the water everyday while everyone else slaves away in OZ. He wasn't a wealthy man so I was interested in his reply, he said "because we worked bloody hard for it so I'm not going to waste it". "I could spend triple what I do now but then I would have to go back to OZ and get back into work" he said. And then he said "and that ain't going to happen." He is just a frugal simple man, can make his buck stretch, knows how to look after himself.

Then I know another mate, he is 56 years old. He works full time and lives from week to week. He rents a room in Sydney and pays board to the the lady that rents out 4 rooms. He has no property or shares. He has never been overseas and has never married. Recently his Father died and he received a 60K inheritance, he has blown 10k already. He plans to blow another 12k on a 5 star train ride and a cruise. See the differences? I just couldn't do that with my Mothers and Fathers money, I would just invest it. Everyone has choices, he has often used the throw away line to me "what's money anyway"....... Seems to be what has come up a couple of times through the thread, instant gratification versus investing and long term more permanent returns. The whole thread is interesting.


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## ENP (21 February 2011)

Julia said:


> Fantastic post, ENP.  Might print it off and use with some of the school students in our mentoring program.  Thank you.




No problem, 

I enjoyed writing it. Is there any questions you would like to ask so your students can get a better understanding?


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## Dowdy (21 February 2011)

My attitude towards money is from my parents and genetics.

I say genetics because when I was very young, 4-6, I used to collect 1,2 & 5c coins. I think I just like the shine of it but my dad used to call me "little jew boy". Never knew what it meant until I was in high school and the association with jews and money :
My parents never taught me about money until high school so it must be something with genetics.

As for my parents - I followed my mum's advice for what do to with money and my dad for what NOT to do with money


Also followed my gut and didn't listen to anyone when I started my own business. Started out as a hobby, then something to supplement my income and now it's the main source of my income and stop working full time to only work casual.
So good going for runs at the TAN in the afternoon...


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