# Where to begin with Eminis?



## downie (9 December 2009)

I'm interested in gaining knowledge to get into trading eminis. funds are limited so i would like to avoid the courses unless anyone can recommend a very reputable school. I don't know where to begin, how to open a trading account etc. Is there any trading rooms out there that don't require you to do their course? Info on where some good starting point is would be much appreciated.
Thanks


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## Timmy (9 December 2009)

*Re: Eminis Interest*

What level of trading / market experience do you have downie?


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## -Bevo- (10 December 2009)

*Re: Eminis Interest*

If your looking at trading intraday you could try Joe Ross http://www.tradingeducators.com/trading-seminars.htm
he use to have have a ebook for the ES contract intraday not sure the cost or quality of content.

Interactive Brokers would be the best online broker to use for trading emini contracts http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/main.php

Invest in a good size mug and some coffee if you plan to trade eminis intraday the hours are horrible for a Australian based trader.

And last don't get caught up in the hype that you see posted on websites of people who make fortunes trading eminis there selling false hope if you have limited funds and knowledge you can quickly send yourself broke trying to master those markets intraday.


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## downie (10 December 2009)

I have nil experience. Not looking to make my fortune,(plenty of better areas to do that) just looking to subsidize my current income, which isn't much.


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## Ruby (16 March 2010)

Just a warning to anyone wanting to trade eminis and looking for a good course......... stay away from an organisation run by Aaron Furst and Peter Bryant.  Their fees are VERY high, they are NOT licensed, and Peter Bryant is just a slick-tongued salesman.  

Web sites are learneminis.com.au, globalmastertraders.com.au and mastertraders.com.au

ASIC is coming down very heavily on unlicensed people giving trading advice, or who are deemed to be giving trading advice


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## groggo (20 March 2010)

Hi Ruby

I have been looking into emini courses and have been looking at those sites as well as a couple of others, traders international and elite traders are others. there seems to be so much negativity towards just about every course i find and it's hard to find feedback from people who've done the courses. (apart from on the websites!)
Do you have any experiences with these guys or anyone else

thanks


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## Ruby (22 March 2010)

Hi Groggo

I have fairly regular contact with a group of traders and investors and in the interests of helping each other, we share information. One member of the group who wants to trade eminis contacted Global Master Traders / Learneminis to register for a live webinar last Wednesday and was instead sent a recorded one.  When he asked for a link to attend the live webinar that evening he was told it had been moved to the previous day (!!)  He still has not received a link to attend this coming Wednesday.

He then asked a few more questions (of the type that anyone spending nearly 10K on a course might ask).  See below and make your own judgement.

Q.  Does Aaron Furst hold an AFSL?
A.  As he is based outside the country he is not required to have one.

Q.  Who are your other trainers and are they all PS146 compliant?
A.  No answer.

Once the sticky questions were asked all communication was severed.   A genuine organisation would be happy to answer these questions.  This raises suspicions.  If (as claimed) Aaron Furst is based outside the country, what recourse do students have if he doesn’t deliver, and doesn’t fall under the rules of ASIC?  It makes his guarantee worthless.  I would be giving them a very wide berth!

As for Elite Traders, I haven’t ever heard a good word about them.   All the people I have spoken to have lost money trading their systems, and also complain about complete lack of customer support once the money is handed over.

Traders International – there have been reams written on this forum about them, and I can’t add to that.    Suggest you do a search.

Hope this helps.

Ruby


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## Agentm (22 March 2010)

i was given the impression trading enemas was a pain in the butt


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## Ruby (22 March 2010)

It's certainly uncomfortable!


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## wayneL (22 March 2010)

It depends.

Sometimes it can bring a certain sense of relief.


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## groggo (22 March 2010)

Thanks Ruby

TI - I had already written off due to bad publicity and Elite Traders keep bugging me with recorded phone messages that I have no idea how to stop.
I hadn't up till this point found anything bad about Learnemini.
Thanks for the heads up


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## Ruby (22 March 2010)

Groggo, the choice is yours of course, but when an educational organisation refuses to answer simple questions that they should expect people to ask, it can be a good warning signal.   Make your own enquiries.

Cheers


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## mervk (27 May 2010)

Hey Groggo, I've been a member of Learnenimi group for 18 months now, and best move I ever made. Happy to pass off my experience personally if you want to contact me. mkrollxxxaapt.net.au just replace xxx with @.

Goes for anyone else who may be seeking an opinion from someone who has been turned into a trader by the learnemini teachings...

cheers

Mervk


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## MACD (28 May 2010)

*EMini education*

Here is my 2 cents opinion on emini education.

Keep well away from Traders International.  It will cost you $10k plus and you will not make any money.  I know as I'm a member! It's all smoke and mirrors.

IMO there are no good trading schools or emini education vendors / trading rooms in Australia.  The best are all in the USA. I have tried all the Aussie ones and they do not come close to the Yanks (IMO)

I do not believe that you need to join a school or trading "education" room as this is not a guarantee for success or anything else.  They are expensive and may not be appropriate to your trading and personality. They make great promise but just deliver bad news and losses. They then blame you for taking a bad trade!

If I were starting out, I would do the following:
Get Ninja Trader software as it's free and easy to use.

Trade every day in simulation for a minimum of 6 months before even thinking of trading with real funds.  If you can't make a profit in sim, then you will never make it with real funds!

Join a forum such as Big Mike Trading (BMT) http://www.bigmiketrading.com/
you will learn so much more than you would from other trading sites and schools.  The BMT forum is free.  It has tons or brilliant systems and methods and they discuss all things trading, particularly Futures.

If you still want to waste money on a paid trading room, then join one after the above.  

The only way to make it trading futures and eminis is to get screen time and spend the hours practicing.  There is no magic silver bullet or indicator that will make you rich and profitable.  It's a lot of hard work.

However, if you stick to it you can do very well from futures.

Good luck and good trading.


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## mpl (2 June 2010)

Yo Ruby

So what exactly is wrong with Aarons training ??????.
I have been doing it for over 12 Mths. Best I have EVER had.
Anyone wanting info pls IM me.
I know who you are by the way Ruby & know why you are saying what you say.

MPL


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## Ruby (2 June 2010)

Hi MPL,


mpl said:


> So what exactly is wrong with Aarons training ??????.




I don't know.   Is there anything wrong with it?   If you read my posts you will see I have said nothing detrimental about his course or his training.   I wrote about one person's difficulty in getting straightforward answers to questions.



mpl said:


> I know who you are by the way Ruby & know why you are saying what you say.




If that is the case, why don't you contact me privately?

If you have found the course useful and are making lots of money, then I am happy for you.  I sincerely mean that.

Regards,

Ruby


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## mpl (2 June 2010)

The reall problem is Ruby is that I DO know your history.
Be very very carfull what you make statements about as it is much much more than Aarons course you are attacking.
Have me banned if you like, but I will stick by my statement along with many others that you will be well aware of. 
Take your personal vendetta along to your next victim, This is more than learnemini you are defameing here.
As for Aarons course, Guy's look it up, contact me if you wish i will personaly give you any details that you require.:


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## Ruby (2 June 2010)

mpl said:


> The reall problem is Ruby is that I DO know your history.




O dear, MPL, insist all you like, but you do NOT know who I am or anything of my history.   Even if you did I would not be concerned.   My history is boring, and I have nothing to hide!  Send me a private message and we can sort it out.



mpl said:


> Be very very carfull what you make statements about as it is much much more than Aarons course you are attacking.




??? I have nothing to fear from any of the statements I have made in my posts.   Read them.   I have not attacked Aaron's course at all!   You really ARE getting yourself steamed up!



mpl said:


> Have me banned if you like, but I will stick by my statement along with many others that you will be well aware of.




I have no intention of trying to have you banned.  This is too much fun.  Stick away!



mpl said:


> Take your personal vendetta along to your next victim, This is more than learnemini you are defameing here.




Vendetta?  That is rather a strong word for stating a few facts.   Is there anything I have said in my posts that you wish to deny?  Aaron Furst has not refuted any of it.   If there is any defamation in my posts, please point it out to me.



mpl said:


> As for Aarons course, Guy's look it up,




One last thing - I abhor the incorrect use of the apostrophe.   It's "Guys", not "Guy's"

Have a great day,

Ruby


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## rcon (4 June 2010)

groggo said:


> Hi Ruby
> 
> I have been looking into emini courses and have been looking at those sites as well as a couple of others, traders international and elite traders are others. there seems to be so much negativity towards just about every course i find and it's hard to find feedback from people who've done the courses. (apart from on the websites!)
> Do you have any experiences with these guys or anyone else
> ...



groggo iam new to this whole thing and I find like you that there  is so much negative feed back on any trading courses on every forum,is it that people have done these courses and not followed the system and are speaking through there pocket.The first point i picked up when attending some 1 day seminars and searching the web was to stick to the rules and you wont get burnt.If you come across an options course that no one puts down let us know,rcon


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## professor_frink (4 June 2010)

rcon said:


> groggo iam new to this whole thing and I find like you that there  is so much negative feed back on any trading courses on every forum,is it that people have done these courses and not followed the system and are speaking through there pocket.The first point i picked up when attending some 1 day seminars and searching the web was to stick to the rules and you wont get burnt.If you come across an options course that no one puts down let us know,rcon




Have a quick read of this thread:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=557545#post557545

Things aren't always as they seem.


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## Alpha_Bet (5 June 2010)

downie said:


> I'm interested in gaining knowledge to get into trading eminis. funds are limited so i would like to avoid the courses unless anyone can recommend a very reputable school. I don't know where to begin, how to open a trading account etc. Is there any trading rooms out there that don't require you to do their course? Info on where some good starting point is would be much appreciated.
> Thanks




Haven't read other responses so apologies if I'm reiterating other opinions.
Crawl before you can walk etc.
Courses. Nothing beats screen time.


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## edodeoliveira (23 June 2010)

downie said:


> I'm interested in gaining knowledge to get into trading eminis. funds are limited so i would like to avoid the courses unless anyone can recommend a very reputable school. I don't know where to begin, how to open a trading account etc. Is there any trading rooms out there that don't require you to do their course? Info on where some good starting point is would be much appreciated.
> Thanks




Hi there Downie, I've started to trade on the E-minis market about November 2009, unfortunately I start my course with a company called 21st century eminis; I found their product marketing very inviting, specially when they give you guarantees and make you believe that trading on the Eminis market is failure proof; Well after a huge loss and a lot of headaches I found them to be nothing but worthless and after investigating further, I found that I wasn't alone as the one who lost. There are a lot of people making huge losses and what was first a guarantee turn out to be nothing but a misleading marketing with no guarantees whatsoever. I am now engaging my lawyers to cancel my account with them and am also lodging a complaint with the ACCC and contacting the media to expose the truth about this people and this company. I am not bitter about my loss as we make good and bad decisions, however in this case I just want to make sure that more people don't get sucked in and like me, make the same mistake. They start marketing their new Auto-trader that as far as know are making losses and in some instances where some tradings go well, the profit margins are very small. So if you're looking to get education keep away from these people.

 I found the Youtube to be a great source of information and there are people who'll lend you a hand if you ask for it. I found the Ninjatrader very good and not as bad as once my course moderator tolled me they were, and another good thing about the Ninjatrader is that you can practice your Sim. trades until you're ready. I have also puchased a book called Technician's Guide to Day & swing Trading and found it to be very good. 

 I'll keep you informed as I go along with my campaign to expose these people. *To all the other course providers, please understand that I don't have anything bad to say as my bad experience does not in anyway have anything to do with these other providers. 

*

Cheers and good luck.


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## CATAPILLAR (5 July 2010)

I too am interested in trading Eminis, I have been Mocktrading with a free simulated program and I am doing quite well BUT the only problem is there is no place to put stop losses. So I feel I'm not getting the real experience.
What I am interested to know is, when selling into the market and you've put a stop loss in say at 10points above where you sold in. Providing the market continues to fall then there is no threat to your capital....correct???
And if the market turns and runs up then you should be protected by your stop loss. And hense have a smallish loss??
Am I correct in my assumption??
CATAPILLAR


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## Wysiwyg (5 July 2010)

CATAPILLAR said:


> And if the market turns and runs up then you should be protected by your stop loss. And hense have a smallish loss??
> Am I correct in my assumption??
> CATAPILLAR



One option is to move the stop loss to break even or better. A trailing stop can be implemented too.


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## MACD (5 July 2010)

Catapillar,

What software are you using to sim trade?  You need to sim trade with stops as when you trade with real money, you will be wiped out if you do not have a pre set stop loss in place.


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## tthurlow2287 (5 July 2010)

CATAPILLAR said:


> I too am interested in trading Eminis, I have been Mocktrading with a free simulated program and I am doing quite well BUT the only problem is there is no place to put stop losses. So I feel I'm not getting the real experience.
> What I am interested to know is, when selling into the market and you've put a stop loss in say at 10points above where you sold in. Providing the market continues to fall then there is no threat to your capital....correct???
> And if the market turns and runs up then you should be protected by your stop loss. And hense have a smallish loss??
> Am I correct in my assumption??
> CATAPILLAR




Each point is $50 US per contract. So a 10 point stop is $500...if you're just starting out that might be too large for you...depending on your account size. The Emini is dangerous, be aware of that.


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## Wysiwyg (5 July 2010)

I replied to your P.M. Caterpillar about the risk factor. The amount risked is  up to the trader and they would do themselves a favour to be completely knowledgeable on position sizing relative to stop loss and dollars risked.


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## Chesty (16 July 2010)

edodeoliveira said:


> Hi there Downie, I've started to trade on the E-minis market about November 2009, unfortunately I start my course with a company called 21st century eminis; I found their product marketing very inviting, specially when they give you guarantees and make you believe that trading on the Eminis market is failure proof; Well after a huge loss and a lot of headaches I found them to be nothing but worthless and after investigating further, I found that I wasn't alone as the one who lost. There are a lot of people making huge losses and what was first a guarantee turn out to be nothing but a misleading marketing with no guarantees whatsoever. I am now engaging my lawyers to cancel my account with them and am also lodging a complaint with the ACCC and contacting the media to expose the truth about this people and this company. I am not bitter about my loss as we make good and bad decisions, however in this case I just want to make sure that more people don't get sucked in and like me, make the same mistake. They start marketing their new Auto-trader that as far as know are making losses and in some instances where some tradings go well, the profit margins are very small. So if you're looking to get education keep away from these people.
> 
> I found the Youtube to be a great source of information and there are people who'll lend you a hand if you ask for it. I found the Ninjatrader very good and not as bad as once my course moderator tolled me they were, and another good thing about the Ninjatrader is that you can practice your Sim. trades until you're ready. I have also puchased a book called Technician's Guide to Day & swing Trading and found it to be very good.
> 
> ...




There's also a lot of very happy people mate. Your bad experience is not always the same as what everyone is experiencing. I would assume that you pretty much did what you wanted in the room and didn't follow Dave's trades perfectly.

As for the auto-trader, it had 18 strong months in sim, the month it launched it finished in profit but nothing compared to what it was doing in sim. That's just the luck of the markets. Since then, the system is no longer completely auto, Dave gets the signals from the system and decides whether to take them or not. 4 points in the first week. Not a bad passive income that on say 5 contracts.


Think before you speak - If everyone felt the way you do, ASIC and the ACCC would have been or their asses a long time ago.



Regards


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## builder2818 (18 July 2010)

Chesty, you obviously work for 21st Century. They are the biggest scammers going around. The outrageous claims coming from them just scream scam. I actually can't believe people fall for their lies. If you are too lazy to learn how to trade instead of letting an "autotrader" find and place trades for you, you have no hope of making profit in any market.

Actually I don't think you work for 21st century anymore because you seem too stupid to realise that their eminis program has barely been available 12 months to this date so there is no way their autotrader scam could have been sim tested for 18 months. You must just be too gullible and believe everything they say.

If anyone is interested in reading more comedy and complaints from people you should read about it here:

http://www.ozripoff.com/report-view/678-jamie-mcintyre-21st-century-academy-fraud

Found another link also of two poor guys that got ripped off by their eminis program here:

http://www.ozripoff.com/report-view/1209-21st-century-eminis-scam


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## Chesty (20 August 2010)

Hey Builder, you are right mate, not an employee just a sucker who got suckered in. Their product in it's entirity sucks. Having a battle now trying to get my money back, damn stupid terms and conditions of their 90 day money back guarantee !!!

On the upside, I've been having great success with EminiJunkie, his approach is awesome as are his results. I'm slowly building my account backl from where 21st CA Eminis dumbass autotrader left it, approx $1000 down in 5 weeks.


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