# Extremism - Australia next if we allow it!



## Boggo (13 April 2012)

Is this is an example of where we are headed with our current attitude ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKEd6rzbeg


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## dutchie (13 April 2012)

Boggo said:


> Is this is an example of where we are headed with our current attitude ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKEd6rzbeg




It might take longer - but sadly, yes.


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## Starcraftmazter (13 April 2012)

Government imports Muslim immigrants.
Immigrants expediently piss off population.
Population demands action.
Government passes laws and impeach on democracy, liberty and freedom.

I'd say all is going to plan. Their plan.


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## Garpal Gumnut (14 April 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Government imports Muslim immigrants.
> Immigrants expediently piss off population.
> Population demands action.
> Government passes laws and impeach on democracy, liberty and freedom.
> ...




Expand SCM.

Sounds like racism to me.

gg


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## DB008 (14 April 2012)

Yes, this e-mail has been doing the rounds...


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## Glen48 (14 April 2012)

USA  home land security has ordered 450 Million 40 cal bullets and bullet proof toll booths to set up on highways,   allow drones to fly over US soil. arrested a bike ride because his bell was not loud enough not that was a problem but now he is in their system.

Next year every phone conversation, every electronically transaction will recorded  from every source in the world by the USA  feds.
 Yes its all going to plan so when the peasants revolt they will be ready.


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## Sean K (15 April 2012)

That only looked like about 200 people in that video to me. There's more KKK in NYC. More members of One Nation. 

Unfortunately these minority groups can cause a disproportionate effect. Both perceived and real.


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## AbrasiveCamel (15 April 2012)

kennas said:


> That only looked like about 200 people in that video to me. There's more KKK in NYC. More members of One Nation.
> 
> Unfortunately these minority groups can cause a disproportionate effect. Both perceived and real.




Tsk, tsk, tsk surely you are not fooled with that sort of logic! Can't you see!? Islamic take over of Western society (which is 'their' plan because they all think as one) is only years, maybe even weeks or days, away.

In answer to the OP - this could definitely happen here! Be afraid! be very afraiddddddd!!!! *ghost noises* oooogyboooooogy.


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## MrBurns (15 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Tsk, tsk, tsk surely you are not fooled with that sort of logic! Can't you see!? Islamic take over of Western society (which is 'their' plan because they all think as one) is only years, maybe even weeks or days, away.
> 
> In answer to the OP - this could definitely happen here! Be afraid! be very afraiddddddd!!!! *ghost noises* oooogyboooooogy.




Britain has addmitted muliti culturalism doesn't work, though I think the integration of Greeks ans Italians here has been a great success.... Asians ok so far, but radical Islam has no place outside it's own borders.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994


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## AbrasiveCamel (15 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Britain has addmitted muliti culturalism doesn't work, though I think the integration of Greeks ans Italians here has been a great success.... Asians ok so far, but radical Islam has no place outside it's own borders.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994




Wow, ex-colonial super power has integration issues a hundred years later? Amazing evidence for Islamic extremism slowly taking over the Western world in a covert immigrant and populate plan.

Show me a significant population of Islamic extremists in this country - and by significant I mean a quantifiable population not the usual two abstract clerics ASIS and Today Tonight have their bi-annual fit over.


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## MrBurns (15 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Wow, ex-colonial super power has integration issues a hundred years later? Amazing evidence for Islamic extremism slowly taking over the Western world in a covert immigrant and populate plan.
> 
> Show me a significant population of Islamic extremists in this country - and by significant I mean a quantifiable population not the usual two abstract clerics ASIS and Today Tonight have their bi-annual fit over.




You're right lets wait untill it's too late


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## DB008 (15 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> You're right lets wait untill it's too late




Care to punt when there will be a muslim party in parliament Mr Burns (if there isn't one already)??

Some people have been predicting/forecasting that Germany will be a muslim state by 2030 with current birth/death/immigration rates.


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## Glen48 (15 April 2012)

Holland has woken up to the fact that multi culturalism does not work and took action after one of their  parliamentary leaders was killed plus the uproar over the cartoonist depicting Allah in a bad light. 
 Like a school boy bully we will let them walk all over us until its to late.


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## MrBurns (15 April 2012)

DB008 said:


> Care to punt when there will be a muslim party in parliament Mr Burns (if there isn't one already)??
> 
> Some people have been predicting/forecasting that Germany will be a muslim state by 2030 with current birth/death/immigration rates.




My more immediate concern is if an extremist or group of them decide we need to be taught a lesson because our women wear makeup or something similar.

Extremists, particularly religious extremists are very dangerous.


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## ColB (15 April 2012)

Boggo said:


> Is this is an example of where we are headed* with our current attitude ?*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKEd6rzbeg




Boggo, could you clarify your comment [question] in regard to 'our current attitude'.  I take it that you are of the view that we in general are apathetic to this issue and perhaps should adopt a certain course of action.  Basically interested in hearing the views of the person who started the thread.  Regards CB


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## Sitar (15 April 2012)

remember that norway has recently suffered a tragic incident from an anti-muslim extremist.


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## Calliope (15 April 2012)

dutchie said:


> It might take longer - but sadly, yes.




I think the tipping point has already been reached in the UK and Eastern Europe.

 The average Muslim family has six children.

The average number of children per woman, which stands at 1.5 children in the EU whereas the population replacement level is 2.1. 

Do your sums!!


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## AbrasiveCamel (16 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> You're right lets wait untill it's too late




Or we could just come back to reality and stop living in a land of paranoid red-neck fantasy.



MrBurns said:


> My more immediate concern is if an extremist or group of them decide we need to be taught a lesson because our women wear makeup or something similar.
> 
> Extremists, particularly religious extremists are very dangerous.




Couldn't find that elusive group of Islamists lurking in Australian society but maybe you can find all the terrorist attacks that happen over tedious moral issues and not geopolitical events? London, Madrid, NYC... too much make-up not enough burqa? 

If we suffer another terrorist attempt/attack it will probably have a lot more to do with us hosting US marines and cluster munitions.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Or we could just come back to reality and stop living in a land of paranoid red-neck fantasy.
> Couldn't find that elusive group of Islamists lurking in Australian society but maybe you can find all the terrorist attacks that happen over tedious moral issues and not geopolitical events? London, Madrid, NYC... too much make-up not enough burqa?
> If we suffer another terrorist attempt/attack it will probably have a lot more to do with us hosting US marines and cluster munitions.




Not very realistic, everyone knows the problem is extrememists, that have death and jihad as a part of their mantra.


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## albaby (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Or we could just come back to reality and stop living in a land of paranoid red-neck fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you implying that  if we allow 1200 marines to train in the NT its our fault if we suffer a terroist attack?


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## Sean K (16 April 2012)

albaby said:


> Are you implying that  if we allow 1200 marines to train in the NT its our fault if we suffer a terroist attack?



Probably just a poor comparison with the Islamic belief of Western nations taking over so much of the world. You know, like the Ottoman conquests.


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## AbrasiveCamel (16 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Not very realistic, everyone knows the problem is extrememists, that have death and jihad as a part of their mantra.




Really? Maybe you can find Islamic attacks on Australia before 2002? I didn't realise this Islamic crusade had been going for so long against us.



albaby said:


> Are you implying that  if we allow 1200 marines to train in the NT its our fault if we suffer a terroist attack?




There is an easy way to reduce terrorism and that would be to stop participating in it, so yes.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> .
> There is an easy way to reduce terrorism and that would be to stop participating in it, so yes.




Thats the most ridiculous statement I've seen in a long time


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## Calliope (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> I didn't realise this *Islamic crusade* had been going for so long against us.




I thought you may be a Muslim, but no Muslim worth his salt would use a ridiculous oxymoron like *Islamic crusade*.

With your permission I would like to nominate it as the Oxymoron of The Year..


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## AbrasiveCamel (16 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Thats the most ridiculous statement I've seen in a long time




Well its a basic guiding principles of international relations so you mustn't read much. Again an easy thing to date - find all the religious plotting against Australia before it jumped on board a new round of US M.E wars.



Calliope said:


> I thought you may be a Muslim, but no Muslim worth his salt would use a ridiculous oxymoron like *Islamic crusade*.
> 
> With your permission I would like to nominate it as the Oxymoron of The Year..




Crusade can be used in a non-historical, secular context so maybe you just have a bad understanding of language.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Well its a basic guiding principles of international relations so you mustn't read much. Again an easy thing to date - find all the religious plotting against Australia before it jumped on board a new round of US M.E wars.
> .




You're saying we should have less to do with the USA to appease Muslims.

Thats offensive and you know it.


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## albaby (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Really? Maybe you can find Islamic attacks on Australia before 2002? I didn't realise this Islamic crusade had been going for so long against us.
> 
> 
> 
> There is an easy way to reduce terrorism and that would be to stop participating in it, so yes.



Where are you posting from C. Waziristan ?God help us if If you are an Aus citizen.Get you gone.


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## Calliope (16 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Crusade can be used in a non-historical, secular context so maybe you just have a bad understanding of language.




Sorry Camel, there is no such thing as an Islamic crusade except in the minds of illiterates. Crosses are anathema to Muslims. Hence you are a candidate for the oxymoron prize.


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## Boggo (16 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> You're saying we should have less to do with the USA to appease Muslims.




That was what Belgium did to appease the minority, have a look at what it has created within their borders !
I reckon they would like to roll back that clock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbQkwECSrto


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## disarray (17 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> I didn't realise this Islamic crusade had been going for so long against us.




islam is an expansionist, supremacist ideology



> To those in Western democracies, these accommodating actions appear, on the surface, to be little more than harmless civil gestures, respecting the needs of a growing religion in their midst and welcoming a new addition to their proud, multicultural tradition. Many Westerners pat themselves on the back for their liberal bent, their tolerance and their open-mindedness.
> 
> Little do they realize that this strategic pattern of demands is part of an insidious, 1,400-year-old proscription for Muslims that originates in the Koran and the Sunnah, the deeds of Mohammed. It is the Hijra or doctrine of immigration. Modeled by Mohammed's migration from Mecca to Medina, this immigration is not to a romanticized melting pot wherein newcomers gratefully search for opportunities for a better life in liberty and freely offer their talents and loyalty to benefit their new homeland. This is immigration for Islamic expansionism employing ethnic separatism to gain special status and privileges within the host country. Hijra is immigration designed to subvert and subdue non-Muslim societies and pave the way for eventual, total Islamization.
> 
> ...


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## Sean K (17 April 2012)

disarray said:


> islam is an expansionist, supremacist ideology



Is there much difference to that ideology than say, Christian conversion of indigenous cultures in the Americas and Africa in the 1500s? It's up for argument whether what the Conquistadors did was for gold or conversion but nonetheless, it was pretty extreme. All in the past I suppose and I doubt us modern folk would support such conquest and conversion today. Maybe that's the point about the current approach by some groups of Islamists. It's an ancient ideology that doesn't fit the modern world.


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## AbrasiveCamel (17 April 2012)

Calliope said:


> Sorry Camel, there is no such thing as an Islamic crusade except in the minds of illiterates. Crosses are anathema to Muslims. Hence you are a candidate for the oxymoron prize.




http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crusade

Entry three. 



albaby said:


> Where are you posting from C. Waziristan ?God help us if If you are an Aus citizen.Get you gone.




Have a cry?



MrBurns said:


> You're saying we should have less to do with the USA to appease Muslims.
> 
> Thats offensive and you know it.




Appease Muslims? Yeah, if not helping the US in its usual imperial games means less religious terrorism on Australian soil I am all for that. Does hatred and violence of non-state terrorism come from a magical no-where land? The US does what it likes to anyone in almost any place they choose. Why do we want to hold on to their cluster bombs and let them hang out in the top end? The diplomatic trade off has almost always been **** house for Australia. 



disarray said:


> islam is an expansionist, supremacist ideology




And yet I can interact and/or work with Muslims from various places both in Australia and abroad - strange.

I am very sceptical of immigration of all religious people into the country but you guys should stick with zombie apocalypse or economic meltdown because magical Islamic takeover 2030 isn't on the horizon as long as the country can maintain relative levels of the different faiths and remain, over all, secular.


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## Calliope (17 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> And yet I can interact and/or work with Muslims from various places both in Australia and abroad - strange.




I like your user name. You certainly are Abrasive, and not without reason. Camel is a bad-tempered, even-toed ungulate within the genus Camelus, bearing distinctive fatty deposits known as humps on its back. It's also a cancer stick.


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## DB008 (17 April 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Appease Muslims? Yeah, if not helping the US in its usual imperial games means less religious terrorism on Australian soil I am all for that. Does hatred and violence of non-state terrorism come from a magical no-where land?




They (Muslims) seem to be blowing each other up too (Shiite's v Sunni), don't forget. Just look at the weekly (at one time, it was almost daily), extreme violence in Iraq and Afghanistan between themselves and whoever was unlucky enough to get caught in the crossfire. 

The motto they follow - Kill all non-believers, they are infidels. They don't worship Allah or respect Mohammed, the last prophet.

Sorry, but why should we be allowing people into this country who don't abide by or respect our law and want to install their own law (Sharia Law)?


Stone-age...
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/12/kuwait-considering-death-penalty-for-insulting-god-prophet-mohammed/


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## AbrasiveCamel (17 April 2012)

DB008 said:


> They (Muslims) seem to be blowing each other up too (Shiite's v Sunni), don't forget. Just look at the weekly (at one time, it was almost daily), extreme violence in Iraq and Afghanistan between themselves and whoever was unlucky enough to get caught in the crossfire.




So? People of every persuasion have been killing each other since forever. Iraq's violence has many reasons and would it would be absurd to say its simply a sectarian conflict. But even if we accept Muslims fight Muslims over religion, again, so what? 

Does that bare any relevance on me freely having travelled Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, etc. No. Does it say anything about the numerous people from different walks of life I've seen able to assimilate into this country? No.



> The motto they follow - Kill all non-believers, they are infidels. They don't worship Allah or respect Mohammed, the last prophet.




Yeah all the Muslims follow that. Its why there are no white people in Lebanon or Western journalists in Saudi Arabia... oh wait, there are, I guess Muslims aren't like zombies in that regard.



> Sorry, but why should we be allowing people into this country who don't abide by or respect our law and want to install their own law (Sharia Law)?




You mean like the Brethren or any other number of creepy little sects? The major religions we already have which invariably have lots of fundamentalists? I agree - immigration is an on-going and evolving process but Sharia law and death by population infiltration is the realm of the ****ing idiot. Australia is not South London.



> Stone-age...
> http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/12/kuwait-considering-death-penalty-for-insulting-god-prophet-mohammed/




Yeah that is disgusting, so what? Is Kuwait plotting to force us to adopt that?


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## dutchie (4 May 2012)

Al Qaeda has called on its followers to unleash massive bushfires this summer in Australia....


http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/watch/29179784/


Is this what we want for Australia?


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## StumpyPhantom (5 May 2012)

AbrasiveCamel said:


> Or we could just come back to reality and stop living in a land of paranoid red-neck fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




AbrasiveCamel - I've been following this thread (and particularly your comments) with concern.  Let me say firstly that I understand your defensiveness, at times.

But let's put aside all that talk about Western democracies getting overtaken by Muslims and Sharia law etc.

What I want to know (given the train of your comments) is what's inside your head.  Let me accept firstly that you are not an extremist, that you are a reasonable person ("moderate", if you like) of the Muslim faith.

Do you condemn, utterly and without reservation, the terrorist attacks of 9/11, and Bali, Madrid, London?  Do you condemn any future acts of terrorism, by anyone, in the name of any religion?


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## Glen48 (5 May 2012)

The next trick the extremist's  are using is inserting bomb's internally into the body so far they have inserted one bomb which went of prematurely the bad news is they are hard to detect.
The other ones to watch are the Fed who lie and create stories like the Cole affair or the fishing trawler supposedly fired one US  war ship's into start the Vietnam war.

Wars so the higher up in the feds can keep their power and life style.
 Both are bad news and we are in the middle.


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## MrBurns (9 May 2012)

How's this for stupidity, this in effect sets a precedent that someone can avoid the way law is upheld in Australia on religious grounds



> Muslim man granted judge-only trial in NSW
> 
> A Muslim man was granted a judge-only trial in NSW on the grounds a jury may be biased because of his strict religious beliefs.
> 
> ...



http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8464468/muslim-man-granted-judge-only-trial-in-nsw


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## McLovin (9 May 2012)

Bench only trials are quite common. I really don't see the difference between a judge or jury deciding if someone is guilty.


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## StumpyPhantom (9 May 2012)

+1 Yeah - I agree.

I don't see why there is any less chance of a judge having a subjective view of the facts than a jury doing so.


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## MrBurns (9 May 2012)

McLovin said:


> Bench only trials are quite common. I really don't see the difference between a judge or jury deciding if someone is guilty.




It's the reasons for it that I find disturbing.


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## McLovin (9 May 2012)

MrBurns said:


> It's the reasons for it that I find disturbing.




Yeah that's a fair point. But at the same time I could see how a jury could be biased. Attempted murder is a serious charge, so I can see why the judge erred on the side of caution to ensure a fair trial. In the US, the right to trial by jury is at the discretion of the accused.


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## MrBurns (9 May 2012)

McLovin said:


> Yeah that's a fair point. But at the same time I could see how a jury could be biased. Attempted murder is a serious charge, so I can see why the judge erred on the side of caution to ensure a fair trial. In the US, the right to trial by jury is at the discretion of the accused.




If a persons religion is so abhorrent a jury has to be left out of the picture perhaps that religion should be on trial.

What he's saying is that my religion will predjudice the jury because it flies in the face of accepted Australian culture and it's laws.

Not on.

12 months jail and then deportation.


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## McLovin (9 May 2012)

MrBurns said:


> If a persons religion is so abhorrent a jury has to be left out of the picture perhaps that religion should be on trial.
> 
> What he's saying is that my religion will predjudice the jury because it flies in the face of accepted Australian culture and it's laws.




I agree. Which is why it was overturned. But the point is that regardless of the man's religion he still deserves a fair trial for the crime he is accused of committing. His religion is not on trial so it should not be allowed to influence the jury, either positively or negatively.


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## MrBurns (9 May 2012)

McLovin said:


> Bench only trials are quite common. I really don't see the difference between a judge or jury deciding if someone is guilty.




Ahhhh sorry I didnt read the whole thing, it was overturned, OK thats right, the original judge should have known better.

Brings to the surface the fact that some religions actually do fly in the face of Australian law and should be outlawed.

I mean I cant open a school for bank robbers or rapists but Sharia law teaches punishment of women that is unlawful here.


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## Glen48 (9 May 2012)

Some one in the legal fraternally, most likely the prosecution, has decided that Australians are racists and therefore he can't get a fair trial good thing he pleads guilty.


There can't be much compassion in the Muslim world when a man can want to kill his loved ones over some thing so trivial.
So now do we have two sets of rules or one rule for each religion, religion should have nothing to do with it is a belief just like UFO watchers.
The man in Egypt watching a porno and saw his wife on the big screen may have reason after all if she is acting and not sharing the proceeds how inconsiderate can one be. .


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## DB008 (18 April 2014)

Suppose it's only a matter of time before it happens here...



> *Islamic law is adopted by British legal chiefs*
> 
> 
> Islamic law is to be effectively enshrined in the British legal system for the first time under guidelines for solicitors on drawing up “Sharia compliant” wills.
> ...




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html


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## SirRumpole (18 April 2014)

DB008 said:


> Suppose it's only a matter of time before it happens here...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html




So much for "equality before the law".


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## McLovin (18 April 2014)

What's wrong with a private party (or two) negotiating a civil matter that breaches no law in whichever method they choose?

Rabbinic law in divorces has been in existence in the UK for well over 100 years.

The only issue I would have is that women may not voluntarily agree to have their case heard in Sharia court.


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## SirRumpole (18 April 2014)

McLovin said:


> What's wrong with a private party (or two) negotiating a civil matter that breaches no law in whichever method they choose?
> 
> Rabbinic law in divorces has been in existence in the UK for well over 100 years.
> 
> The only issue I would have is that women may not voluntarily agree to have their case heard in Sharia court.




If the Sharia law is not binding on all parties and is contestable in the normal courts that would be a start, but a claimant doing that would possibly be subject to some of the atrocious "honour killings" that have wormed their way into Britain.

Better to just have one law for all and do away with this Sharia nonsense, which is in reality another form of enslavement to a particular looney religion.


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## McLovin (18 April 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> If the Sharia law is not binding on all parties and is contestable in the normal courts that would be a start




It is. Sharia does not have equal status to the law of Britain. It is nothing more than a method of arbitration. It's not different to a couple getting divorced agreeing on how to divide their assets then presenting it to the family court to be rubber stamped. Sharia doesn't usurp the protections in the legal system.

I don't know what the law of England and Wales is wrt to disinheriting people, but in Australia it is very difficult to disinherit children, for example.


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## bellenuit (18 April 2014)

McLovin said:


> It is. Sharia does not have equal status to the law of Britain. It is nothing more than a method of arbitration. It's not different to a couple getting divorced agreeing on how to divide their assets then presenting it to the family court to be rubber stamped. Sharia doesn't usurp the protections in the legal system.
> 
> I don't know what the law of England and Wales is wrt to disinheriting people, but in Australia it is very difficult to disinherit children, for example.




I agree with SirRumpole on this. Sharia may not usurp the protections in the legal system, but could you imagine a woman or other person disadvantaged by Sharia arbitration who lives in one of the many Muslim enclaves that are now in Britain contesting such arbitration in the courts. To do so would invite permanent maiming if not death in many cases.

If there is no intent to deny equality to women and others, why allow such rights to be "voluntarily" arbitrated away. Who would "voluntarily" give up one's rights unless pressure from other sources is overwhelming.

We should be legislating to make it easier for people to enjoy their rights and freedoms, not pandering to the wishes of extreme religious bigots.


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## noco (18 April 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> If the Sharia law is not binding on all parties and is contestable in the normal courts that would be a start, but a claimant doing that would possibly be subject to some of the atrocious "honour killings" that have wormed their way into Britain.
> 
> Better to just have one law for all and do away with this Sharia nonsense, which is in reality another form of enslavement to a particular looney religion.





Geez Rumpy, Inever thought it ever happen.

But I am happy to sing from the same song book as you.


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## McLovin (18 April 2014)

bellenuit said:


> I agree with SirRumpole on this. Sharia may not usurp the protections in the legal system, but could you imagine a woman or other person disadvantaged by Sharia arbitration who lives in one of the many Muslim enclaves that are now in Britain contesting such arbitration in the courts. To do so would invite permanent maiming if not death in many cases.




What I don't have an issue with is two parties reaching a decision outside of court as long as that arbitration is reviewed by a court and deemed equitable according to the law. If that set up is going to create a system that uses intimidation against one party, and I have deep suspicion that it would, then I'd rather keep the status quo.


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## dutchie (18 April 2014)

DB008 said:


> Suppose it's only a matter of time before it happens here...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html






Chip, Chip, Chipping Away


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## bellenuit (20 April 2014)

Excellent article that I couldn't agree with more. Our freedom of speech is gradually being eroded by a politically correct mindset that accepts intolerance in the name of religion over freedom. This is the US, but we see the same happening here.

Brandeis University's treatment of Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a disgrace. She has put her life on the line to expose the injustices to women in Islamic societies and needs armed protection wherever she speaks. 

*A triumph for the Boston Bombers*

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/04/18/a-triumph-for-the-boston-bombers/


Brief Bio:

_Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an outspoken defender of women's rights in Islamic societies, was born in Mogadishu, Somalia. She escaped an arranged marriage by immigrating to the Netherlands in 1992 and served as a member of the Dutch parliament from 2003 to 2006. In parliament, she worked on furthering the integration of non-Western immigrants into Dutch society and defending the rights of women in Dutch Muslim society. In 2004, together with director Theo van Gogh, she made Submission, a film about the oppression of women in conservative Islamic cultures. The airing of the film on Dutch television resulted in the assassination of Mr. van Gogh by an Islamic extremist. At AEI, Ms. Hirsi Ali researches the relationship between the West and Islam, women's rights in Islam, violence against women propagated by religious and cultural arguments, and Islam in Europe. _


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## sptrawler (6 July 2014)

It would appear our level of community violence, is spiralling down to the lowest common denominator.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/24395602/south-east-metro-residents-terrorised/

We may have Australian values, doesn't mean all have to adopt them. 
Attacking homes in broad daylight, has not been a common trait, that I've seen over the last 50 years. 
Well not in an Australin Capital city within 5k's of the CBD.


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## noco (24 July 2014)

This guy has been deported from the Philippines for his extreme Islamic preaching and we allow him back in Australia to do the very same thing.

I say lock him up now and throw away the key.,,,we do not need this guy here.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ves-in-melbourne/story-fnihslxi-1226998255175


----------



## noco (2 August 2014)

The Islamic movement has been going on for 1400 years........So nothing has changed much in that time except they now killing each other. 

To profile, or not to profile? (Rant-of-the-Day)

SAD WORLD WE LIVE IN--BUT THE FACTS DON'T LIE
This is all factually (and historically) correct - and verifiable. 

In 732 AD the Muslim Army which was moving on Paris
was defeated and turned back at Tours, France, by Charles Martell.

In 1571 AD the Muslim Army/ Navy was defeated by the Italians and Austrians as they tried to cross
the Mediterranean to attack southern Europe in the Battle of Lapanto. 

In 1683 AD the Turkish Muslim Army, attacking Eastern Europe, was finally defeated in the Battle
of Vienna by German and Polish Christian Armies. 

...this crap has been going on for 1,400 years and half of these damn politicians don't even know it.                     

If these battles had not been won we might be speaking Arabic and Christianity could be non -
existent;  Judaism certainly would be...    And let us not forget that Hitler was an admirer of Islam and that the
Mufti of Jerusalem was Hitler's guest in Berlin and raised Bosnian Muslim SS Divisions: the 13th and
21st Waffen SS Divisions who killed Jews, Russians, Gypsies, and any other "subhumans". 

Reflecting, a lot of Americans have become so insulated from 
reality that they imagine that America can suffer defeat without any inconvenience to themselves.

Pause a moment, reflect back. These events are actual events from history.   They really happened!!! 
Do you remember? 

1. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male.

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim males.

3. In 1972 a Pan Am 747 was hijacked and eventually diverted to Cairo where a fuse was lit 
on final approach, it was blown up shortly after landing by Muslim males.

4. In 1973 a Pan Am 707 was destroyed in Rome, 
with 33 people killed, when it was attacked with grenades by Muslim males.

5. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim males.

6. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim males.

7. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim males.

8. In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was 
murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim males.

9. In 1985, TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue 
passengers was murdered by Muslim males.

10. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim males.

11. In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim males.

12. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim males.

13. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade 
Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and 
crashed by the passengers.   Thousands of people were killed by Muslim males.

14. In 2002, the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim males.

15. In 2002, reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded by---you guessed it was a--- Muslim male.

16. In 2013, Boston Marathon Bombing 4 Innocent 
people including a child killed, 264 injured by Muslim males.

No, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport 
security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people.  So, ask yourself "Just how 
stupid are we???" 

Absolutely No Profiling! 

They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper 
identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old, 
Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winner and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave 
Muslim Males, alone lest they be guilty of profiling. 

Ask yourself "Just how stupid are we?"

Have the American people completely lost their minds or just their Power of Reason???
As the writer of the award winning story 'Forrest Gump' so aptly put it, 'Stupid Is As Stupid Does'.


----------



## Bintang (2 August 2014)

noco said:


> This guy has been deported from the Philippines for his extreme Islamic preaching and we allow him back in Australia to do the very same thing.
> 
> I say lock him up now and throw away the key.,,,we do not need this guy here.
> 
> ...




Does anyone know how he became an Australian in the first place?  Did he by any chance arrive on a boat - you know the type of boats I mean.


----------



## noco (2 August 2014)

Bintang said:


> Does anyone know how he became an Australian in the first place?  Did he by any chance arrive on a boat - you know the type of boats I mean.





He is an Australian....born in Australia.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ves-in-melbourne/story-fnihslxi-1226998255175


----------



## Bintang (2 August 2014)

Well that's weird and unfortunate cause he certainly doesn't deserve to have been born here.


----------



## DB008 (2 August 2014)

Religion of Peace???

Shocking highlights in bold.


*AFP issues warrants for Australian ISIL fighters Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar*



> Federal police have issued arrest warrants for two Sydney men accused of fighting with terrorist groups in Iraq and Syria.
> 
> Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar recently posted images from Iraq on Twitter, *showing them posing with the heads of executed fighters, holding guns and standing over bloodied bodies.*
> 
> In other online posts, they threatened to kill Australian soldiers and all non-Muslims.




http://www.smh.com.au/national/afp-issues-warrants-for-australian-isil-fighters-khaled-sharrouf-and-mohamed-elomar-20140729-zy8lg.html#ixzz39DfTpS25

*Edit*



> *Jihadi Khaled Sharrouf says he would have launched attack in Australia*
> 
> Sydney jihadi wanted on terrorism offences has issued an extraordinary statement, threatening a terrorist attack on Australian soil and claiming he would have carried out one, had he not left for the battlefields in Syria and Iraq last year.
> 
> ...


----------



## noco (2 August 2014)

DB008 said:


> Religion of Peace???
> 
> Shocking highlights in bold.
> 
> ...




And Gillard threw aside all warnings from the about home grown Jihadists.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ays-former-judge/story-fn59niix-1227010727269


----------



## noco (4 August 2014)

Perhaps Australia could take some lessons from the Japanese.




These practices set a high standard for young people
* Japanese children clean their schools every day for a quarter of an hour with teachers. 
This led to the emergence of a Japanese generation who is modest and keen on cleanliness. 

* Any  Japanese citizen who has a dog must carry special bags to pick up dog droppings. 
Hygiene and their eagerness to address cleanliness is part of Japanese ethics. 

* A hygiene worker in Japan is called "health engineer" and can command salary of USD 5000 to 8000 per month, 
and a cleaner is subjected to written and oral tests! 

* Japan does not have any natural resources, and they are exposed to hundreds of earthquakes a year, 
but this has not prevented its becoming the second largest economy in the world. 

* In just ten years Hiroshima returned to what it was economically vibrant before the fall of the atomic bomb. 

* Japan prevents the use of mobile phones in trains, restaurants and indoors. 

* For first to sixth primary year Japanese students must learn ethics in dealing with people. 

* Even though one of the richest people in the world, the Japanese do not have servants.
The parents are responsible for the house and children. 

* There is no examination from the first to the third primary level,
because the goal of education is to instill concepts and character building. 

* If you go to a buffet restaurant in Japan you will notice people only eat as much as they need without any waste because food must not be wasted. 

* The rate of delayed trains in Japan is about 7 seconds per year!! 
The Japanese appreciate the value of time and are very punctual to minutes and seconds. 

* Children in schools brush their teeth (sterile) and clean their teeth after a meal at school, 
teaching them to maintain their health from an early age. 

* Japanese students take half an hour to finish their meals to ensure proper digestion,
because these students are the future of Japan. 

The Japanese focus on maintaining their own culture. 

Therefore. 

* No political leader or a prime minister from an Islamic nation has visited Japan not the Ayatollah of Iran, 
the King of Saudi Arabia or even a Saudi Prince! 

* Japan is a country keeping Islam at bay by putting strict restrictions on Islam and ALL Muslims. 

      1) Japan is the only nation that does not give citizenship to Muslims. 
      2) In Japan permanent residency is not given to Muslims. 
      3) There is a strong ban on the propagation of Islam in Japan .. 
      4) In the University of Japan, Arabic or any Islamic language is not taught. 
      5) One cannot import a 'Koran' published in the Arabic language. 
      6) According to data published by the Japanese  government, it has given temporary residency to only 2  lakhs, Muslims, who must follow the Japanese Law of the Land. These Muslims should speak Japanese and carry their religious rituals in their homes. 
      7) Japan is the only country in the world that has a negligible number of embassies in Islamic countries. 
      8) Muslims residing in Japan are the employees of foreign companies. 
      9) Even today, visas are not granted to Muslim doctors, engineers or managers sent by foreign companies. 
    10) In the majority of companies it is stated in their regulations that no Muslims should apply for a job. 
    11) The Japanese government is of the opinion that Muslims are fundamentalist, and even in the era of globalization they are not willing to change their Muslim laws. 
    12) Muslims cannot even rent a house in Japan ... 
    13) If anyone comes to know that his neighbor is a Muslim then the whole neighborhood stays alert. 
    14) No one can start an Islamic cell or Arabic 'Madrasa' in Japan .. 
    15) There is no Sharia law in Japan ... 
    16) If a Japanese woman marries a Muslim, she is considered an outcast  forever. 
    17) According to Mr. Kumiko Yagi, Professor of Arab/Islamic Studies at Tokyo University of Foreign Studies, 
" There is a mind frame in Japan that Islam is a very narrow minded religion and one should stay away from it." 

The Japanese might have lost the war, but they are in charge of their own country.
There are no bombs going off in crowded business centres,
"Honour Killings", nor killing of innocent children or anyone else. 

Something to think about.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 August 2014)

> Professor of Arab/Islamic Studies at Tokyo University of Foreign Studies,




Now that is what I call a plum posting.

Not much work to do there. How many classes does he give ?


----------



## Bintang (4 August 2014)

noco said:


> Perhaps Australia could take some lessons from the Japanese.
> Something to think about.




Noco, very interesting. Can you provide a source for this information? I'm not being critical or doubting I just find it so interesting that I would like to read it at source.

How is it the Japanese are not targeted for this anti-muslim stance?

How is it that they can conduct business successfully in muslim countries such as Indonesia without being criticised for their anti-muslim national policies?

Why is it that a country like Australia. which (in my opinion) is far too liberal and tolerant  of  muslims,  at times be branded as anti-muslim and racist?


----------



## SirRumpole (4 August 2014)

> How is it the Japanese are not targeted for this anti-muslim stance?




Japan is not big on immigration from anywhere. They don't need more people , they are very densely packed as it is.


----------



## bellenuit (4 August 2014)

Bintang said:


> Why is it that a country like Australia. which (in my opinion) is far too liberal and tolerant  of  muslims,  at times be branded as anti-muslim and racist?




The branding mainly comes from within rather than from our muslim neighbours who would be throwing stones from glass houses.


----------



## Bintang (4 August 2014)

bellenuit said:


> The branding mainly comes from within rather than from our muslim neighbours who would be throwing stones from glass houses.




Fair point.  At the height of the Pauline Hanson era while visiting Singapore I was personally confronted by someone who told me that Australia is a racist country. At the time I blamed the Australian media for giving PH more attention than she deserved.


----------



## DB008 (4 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Japan is not big on immigration from anywhere. They don't need more people , they are very densely packed as it is.




Japan also don't give out citizenship. Full stop.


----------



## Bintang (4 August 2014)

DB008 said:


> Japan also don't give out citizenship. Full stop.




I agree with Noco. We should learn from them.


----------



## DB008 (4 August 2014)

Bintang said:


> I agree with Noco. We should learn from them.




I get those chain e-mails too. How much of it is correct and truthful?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Japan



> Islam was thought to have first come to Japan in the early 1900s when Muslim Tatars were escaping Russian expansionism.[9] The Muslim community in Japan has a history of over 100 years, although some sources contest more than this amount.[9][10][11] In 1909 it was documented by historian Caeser E. Farah that Abdul-Rashid Ibrahim was the first Muslim who successfully converted the first ethnic Japanese, and in 1935 Kobe Mosque - Japan's first Islamic building - was constructed.[9][12] Some sources have stated that in 1982 the Muslims numbered 30,000 (half were natives).
> 
> [9] Some ethnic Japanese women during the economic boom of the 1980s converted when large swathes of immigrants from Asia came and integrated with local population.[13] The majority of estimates of the Muslim population have been put at around 100,000 in estimates.[9][14][15] Islam remains a minority religion in Japan, and there is no evidence as to whether Islam is growing or not. Conversion is more prominent among young ethnic Japanese married women, as documented by the Japan Times as early as the 1990s.[13] Furthermore in 2000 Keiko Sakurai had estimated the number of ethnic Japanese Muslims in Japan at 63,552, and around 70,000 - 100,000 foreign Muslims residing in the country.[10] However according to essayist Michael Penn states that 90% of Muslims are foreign and about 10% are ethnic, but the true figure is unknown and this is just another speculative estimate.
> 
> [14] In Japan the government does not take religion into account as part of the demographic concern under religious freedom. As Penn states, "The Japanese government does not keep any statistics on the number of Muslims in Japan. Neither foreign residents nor ethnic Japanese are never asked about their religion by official government agencies".[14]




BTW - It is too late here in Australia


----------



## noco (4 August 2014)

Bintang said:


> Noco, very interesting. Can you provide a source for this information? I'm not being critical or doubting I just find it so interesting that I would like to read it at source.
> 
> How is it the Japanese are not targeted for this anti-muslim stance?
> 
> ...





Mate, I tried to track it down without success...it was emailed to me from a friend who got from another friend and so on.

I did a google search and came up with this link which may be sufficient to quench your thirst for information.....there is plenty of info there......If I find any more, I will post it to you.


http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-land-without-muslims/2013/05/19/0/

http://www.muslimpopulation.com/asia/Japan/Islam in Japan_aq.php


----------



## Julia (4 August 2014)

noco said:


> * Any  Japanese citizen who has a dog must carry special bags to pick up dog droppings.



Um, the same applies here, noco.


> Hygiene and their eagerness to address cleanliness is part of Japanese ethics.



The same will apply in any sensible country.



> * Japan does not have any natural resources, and they are exposed to hundreds of earthquakes a year,
> but this has not prevented its becoming the second largest economy in the world.



Hasn't stopped them experiencing massive deflation in recent years.



> * Japan prevents the use of mobile phones in trains, restaurants and indoors.



Fantastic idea.  One we should adopt here.



> * Even though one of the richest people in the world, the Japanese do not have servants.
> The parents are responsible for the house and children.



Hmm. I'd like to see the evidence for that statement.  
Separately, what about the very considerable use of geishas for the entertainment of men, married men, that is.



> * If you go to a buffet restaurant in Japan you will notice people only eat as much as they need without any waste because food must not be wasted.



Might explain the rare vision of an obese Japanese person.   

This has all the hallmarks of a chain email, but for all that, there is much in it which is very believable.
The Japanese are very disciplined people, and if only half of what noco has put up is true, then good for them.
My tongue in cheek qualifiers are no real objection.


----------



## noco (4 August 2014)

Julia said:


> Um, the same applies here, noco.
> 
> The same will apply in any sensible country.
> 
> ...




Julia , I agree with your comments on Japanese customs but the emphasis of my post was relevant to the acceptance or I should say non acceptance of Muslims.


----------



## DB008 (11 August 2014)

Religion on Peace strikes - yet again - with an Australian twist.

A new low...




> *The photo that will shock the world: jihadist Khaled Sharrouf’s son, 7, holds severed head*
> 
> THIS is a photo that will shock the world.
> 
> ...


----------



## SirRumpole (11 August 2014)

DB008 said:


> Religion on Peace strikes - yet again - with an Australian twist.
> 
> A new low...




The sad thing is, if that little boy had his own head cut off his father would probably be proud of him for being a martyr for Islam.


----------



## drsmith (11 August 2014)

A few days ago, Catholic Online posted images of what it claimed was "ISIS begins killing Christians in Mosul". 

They are even more graphic than the above.


----------



## Wysiwyg (11 August 2014)

Does anyone know for sure what the agenda is for these fanatical groups? I thought maybe oil rich land or land they perceive as theirs because certain real estate is more valuable. Surely interpretations from ancient text is not driving these fanatics to infringe on others.
However, history reveals that insane minds did severe damage during their life time and it is an insane mind that perpetuates destructive teachings.


----------



## noco (12 August 2014)

Wysiwyg said:


> Does anyone know for sure what the agenda is for these fanatical groups? I thought maybe oil rich land or land they perceive as theirs because certain real estate is more valuable. Surely interpretations from ancient text is not driving these fanatics to infringe on others.
> However, history reveals that insane minds did severe damage during their life time and it is an insane mind that perpetuates destructive teachings.




I have been pounding the desk for months....Muslims have infiltrated the Western World with one agenda......World domination......50,000 have arrived illegally by boat with the Green/Labor coalition open border policy......many have also arrived on false passports and visas by air thanks to a corrupt Indian couple and certain Australian Immigration officers.

We have many Jihadists here in Australia who are brain washing young teenage Muslims to return to their motherland to fight.....these youngsters, are, in many cases born here in Australia........Young kids are also being brain washed here in Australia in preparation for an Islamic uprising when the time is right.......lets not fool ourselves, they are sleeping moderate dogs at the moment.

Don't miss insight on SBS tonight.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/enter...sbs-insight-show/story-fnihmyny-1227020936496


----------



## noco (12 August 2014)

noco said:


> I have been pounding the desk for months....Muslims have infiltrated the Western World with one agenda......World domination......50,000 have arrived illegally by boat with the Green/Labor coalition open border policy......many have also arrived on false passports and visas by air thanks to a corrupt Indian couple and certain Australian Immigration officers.
> 
> We have many Jihadists here in Australia who are brain washing young teenage Muslims to return to their motherland to fight.....these youngsters, are, in many cases born here in Australia........Young kids are also being brain washed here in Australia in preparation for an Islamic uprising when the time is right.......lets not fool ourselves, they are sleeping moderate dogs at the moment.
> 
> ...




Some more reading on child soldiers and many in Muslim Schools here in Australia will finish up the same.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...on-on-extremists/story-e6frg8yo-1227021107132

*“The vast majority of Muslims would be completely horrified by this,” Professor Leahy said. “The only solution has to come from within Islam ... Their leaders must speak up and publicly condemn this behaviour.”

While most Islamic community leaders declined to comment on Islamic State, they united to condemn Sharrouf and the treatment of his sons.*

The Islamic leaders in Australia are afraid to speak out in fear of retribution by the Australian Islamic fanatics......


----------



## SirRumpole (12 August 2014)

noco said:


> The Islamic leaders in Australia are afraid to speak out in fear of retribution by the Australian Islamic fanatics......




The so called "moderate" Islamic leaders are certainly very reluctant to come out in public and condemn what is happening in Syria and Iraq.

This silence can only increase our suspicions of their real motives.

Silence implies assent as the saying goes.


----------



## craft (12 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Silence implies assent as the saying goes.






Australia has some wonderful multicultural communities all over the place at the local level. Get out get involved in them and your fears will diminish.

There are wonderful people of all cultures and religions and there are also dick heads from all walks of life. Deal with the idiots on merit but don’t go putting good people into the wrong box based on nothing more than prejudices.

Be part of the solution not part of the problem. 

Only comment I will make on this thread.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 August 2014)

> Australia has some wonderful multicultural communities all over the place at the local level. Get out get involved in them and your fears will diminish.




I think it's the responsibility of those in the "multicultural communities" to convince us that they share our values. The silence of the muftis in relation to terrorism and violence is disturbing and makes people worried about engaging with them.


----------



## orr (12 August 2014)

craft said:


> Australia has some wonderful multicultural communities all over the place at the local level. Get out get involved in them and your fears will diminish.
> 
> There are wonderful people of all cultures and religions and there are also dick heads from all walks of life. Deal with the idiots on merit but don’t go putting good people into the wrong box based on nothing more than prejudices.
> 
> ...




From the comments lifted directly from Anders Breiviks 1500pg manifesto and reproduced over the last few pages of this thread, it appears that the Whites, oops sorry, Knights Templar are an active bunch here. 

 As to Japan The Corporate cultural work at Tepco would be a beaut to emulate. The fondoling of women in crowded trains and lifts, the vending machines dispencing panties worn by school girls, Minamarta and the annual dolphin cull. Princess whats her name in the best appointed padded cell in the whole world. What are the Jap 'stats' on the school age suicide rate these days.  Oh and great skiing.


----------



## Value Collector (12 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I think it's the responsibility of those in the "multicultural communities" to convince us that they share our values. The silence of the muftis in relation to terrorism and violence is disturbing and makes people worried about engaging with them.




It seems you think that "Multicultural Community" is a synonym for "Islamic community".

If its Religious Extremism you have a problem with, then denounce religious extremism or religion itself, not the concept of multiculturalism.  

When you denounce Multiculturalism, your Denouncing Australia's long history of being made up of diverse cultures, whether that be the many European cultures (English, Irish, French, Spanish, Italian, greek etc etc) or the Asian cultures (Chinese, Japanese, Philipino, Indian etc) or the growing number of other cultures from Africa, the middle east, south America etc etc.

Australia is a young country, made of cultures from all around the world, Multiculturalism isn't a new hippy thing that we should resist, Its part of who we are at our core, We wouldn't be who we are without it.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 August 2014)

Value Collector said:


> It seems you think that "Multicultural Community" is a synonym for "Islamic community".
> 
> If its Religious Extremism you have a problem with, then denounce religious extremism or religion itself, not the concept of multiculturalism.
> 
> ...




All right, I denounce religious extremism.

People from all over the world have come here in the past and have done an excellent job of settling into the community by working hard and not causing trouble. If members of the Islamic community do that, then we have no problem. However the fact is that we have hard line Islamic radicals from this country fighting overseas and committing brutal acts. Where did they get the desire to do that ? Here. 

We have a right to ask whether members of the Islamic community are encouraging this behaviour. I suggest that by the general silence of the Muslim community they either are secretly supporting it or are too afraid of the extremists to speak out. Either situation is a problem.


----------



## Value Collector (12 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> People from all over the world have come here in the past and have done an excellent job of settling into the community by working hard and not causing trouble..




I agree, But that didn't stop racism and fear mongering against them at the time, whether that be the bashing and murdering of chinks (chinese) on the gold fields, or the outrage because of the Wogs, stealing "Aussie jobs", later the Gooks got their share, and now the "Rag Heads" cop it.

It seems to be a cycle, every new wave face it.



> However the fact is that we have hard line Islamic radicals from this country fighting overseas and committing brutal acts. Where did they get the desire to do that ? Here.




And their citizenship and passports should be shredded.

But just remember, David Hicks was an white Australian, and he was captured fighting for the Taliban. 

Where did they get the desire to do it? well I think many young males do get the urge to fight, many of us join the army, Some just fight in pubs, others riot on the streets of crunulla and others who have been indoctrinated into religions may want to travel to fight in a holy war.

I think the urge comes from a primitive primal urge to defend the tribe, protect your mate or be seen to be a strong warrior. Us humans still bear the stamp of our lowly origins unfortunately, Like a lot of our primal urges, if they are uncontrolled, or in worse situations exploited by religious indoctrination, they can have devastating effects in modern society.  



> We have a right to ask whether members of the Islamic community are encouraging this behaviour. I suggest that by the general silence of the Muslim community they either are secretly supporting it or are too afraid of the extremists to speak out. Either situation is a problem




I think extremism is inevitable in any religion, Offcourse the large majority will not be extremists, but the very nature of religions basically guarantees a certain amount of extremism, As long as there are moderates professing the virtues of the holy texts, there will be extremists taking the texts literally.

I think Richard dawkins sums it up perfectly here.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 August 2014)

> Where did they get the desire to do it? well I think many young males do get the urge to fight, many of us join the army, Some just fight in pubs, others riot on the streets of crunulla and others who have been indoctrinated into religions may want to travel to fight in a holy war.




I find it hard to believe that an intelligent person like yourself would join the army because you wanted to kill people. 

There must be something deeper than that for these insurgents. Maybe some of them are simply psychopaths who want to kill anyone for any reason.

'Protecting the tribe' has a ring of reality. Lots of people signed up for WWI, WWII and even the Boer war because of a (misplaced ?) sense of patriotism, but even then there were cases of respect for the other side. I heard of one case in the trenches in WWI where British and German soldiers got together and had a party during a ceasefire, before shooting each other the next day. There does not seem much of that by ISIS, just pure hatred, even for fellow Muslims.

 I find the whole situation in Syria and Iraq very disturbing and depressing, and can't see an end to it.


----------



## Value Collector (12 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I find it hard to believe that an intelligent person like yourself would join the army because you wanted to kill people.




I wouldn't say I wanted to Kill people, But I certainly had a burning want to be part of something big and do my part. Patriotism is a very strong urge, and I feel the same primal urge that causes patriotism can cause these people to want to fight in their holy wars.



> There must be something deeper than that for these insurgents. Maybe some of them are simply psychopaths who want to kill anyone for any reason.




No doubt some are psychopaths, But you don't have to be a psychopath to want to kill or to get enjoyment from watching people be killed. We humans have a way of retreating back to the "us vs them" mentality, whether its caused by extreme patriotism, religion, racism or any other division, unfortunately it is all to easy to convince young men to commit terrible acts, all you have to do is invoke certain ideas or feelings, As I get older, these are the things I want to resist, I am turned off by anything that tries to divide people, whether it is extreme patriotism or religion.




> I find the whole situation in Syria and Iraq very disturbing and depressing, and can't see an end to it.




I am disturbed as well, I can't see an end either unless the religions are abandoned, If you start a debate by agreeing that their god is real, and the texts are true, you will not be able to convince them they are wrong.

Listen to the cheers as these marines watch any enemy position get an air strike, These men are just average guys you would probably enjoy a BBQ with, But listen to the joy they express as the watch people being killed, They would never want that to happen to an American, but when its the other guys, its good. You don't have to be a psychopath. Religion is just another way to divide up society into in groups and out groups. ISIS guys are probably enjoying the killing also, not because they are psycho, simply because they are killing the out groups, and they have been taught that that is the moral, right thing to do.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 August 2014)

The conspiracy of fear intensifies against moderate Muslims

Death threats against Muslim leader Dr Jamal Rifi who spoke out against radicals



> The concern about home-grown terrorism has taken an alarming twist today with death threats being made against a Sydney Muslim leader who spoke out against Australian radicals.
> 
> Dr Jamal Rifi and his family have been forced to take extra security measures in response to online threats that were posted on Twitter.
> 
> ...


----------



## noco (14 August 2014)

How is this for extremism......what a hide

R EAD CAREFULLY...
This is so "Unbelievable"...



 In Houston, Texas Harwin Central Mall: The very first store that you come to when you walk from the lobby of the building into the shopping area had this sign posted on their door. The shop is run by Muslims.  

Feel free to share this with others.

In case you are not able to read the sign below, it says, 

"We will be closed on Friday, September 11, to commemorate  
the martyrdom of Imam Ali." 




Imam Ali flew one of the planes into the twin towers.

Nice, huh?
Try telling me we're not in a Religious war!
THIS HAS NOT BEEN AROUND....SO MAKE SURE IT DOES!

PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND HAVE THEM DO THE SAME!

This e-mail is intended  to reach 400 million people! Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world.

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center 'NEVER HAPPENED'.


because it offends some Muslim???

Do not just delete this message; it will take only a minute to pass this along.

FREEDOM ISN'T  FREE...SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT!


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## McLovin (14 August 2014)

noco, if you're going to post that sort of rubbish can you at least do a basic Google search to make sure it's not just BS that someone equally as gullible has forwarded on to you?

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/photos/martyr.asp


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## herzy (27 August 2014)

craft said:


> Australia has some wonderful multicultural communities all over the place at the local level. Get out get involved in them and your fears will diminish.
> 
> There are wonderful people of all cultures and religions and there are also dick heads from all walks of life. Deal with the idiots on merit but don’t go putting good people into the wrong box based on nothing more than prejudices.
> 
> ...




Thank you craft, McLovin and Value Collector for your reasoned and reasonable comments - a breath of fresh air from what otherwise descends into hate speech which runs against the current of what it is to be a member of Australian society.



McLovin said:


> noco, if you're going to post that sort of rubbish can you at least do a basic Google search to make sure it's not just BS that someone equally as gullible has forwarded on to you?
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/rumors/photos/martyr.asp




I think the only way to deal with the issue of Islamic (and other) extremism is to first gain a proper understanding of the issues at hand. 

For example, rampant conflict in Iraq, Syria and Israel has existed since long before the birth of Mohammed/Islam. 

For example, the VAST majority of Muslims are what we would consider to be very regular people, and who are quick to denounce terrorism (privately, if not publicly - which is understandable). That includes the vast majority of Muslims here, many of whom smoke, drink, eat pork, get tattoos etc. 

For example, the most common interpretation of Islam doesn't really differ in any significant textual way from Christianity or Judaism...

If we start to accept that there are nuances to many of these issues (e.g. Muslims cf extremists and terrorists; Turks cf Arabs cf Muslims etc) maybe we can better address many of the issues we're all worried about.


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## SirRumpole (27 August 2014)

> (privately, if not publicly - which is understandable).




Is it ?


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## Tisme (27 August 2014)

The satisfaction of intimidating, brutalising and killing others in the company of fellow worshippers must be very satisfying to many. I suspect there is a large following of "moderates" who also derive some pleasure in seeing their brethren win one or two for the Gipper, although it wouldn't do to brag in polite western society.

I watched enough Saturday matinee serials at the old town cinema as a boy to know that you can't trust anyone except your mum and the hero of the series to tell the truth while the cutthroat villains implore everyone to believe their benevolence and peaceful aspirations...I suspect it's a script that has been played out in real life for thousands of years and mature societies are doomed to fall victim to it every time.


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## SirRumpole (27 August 2014)

Tisme said:


> The satisfaction of intimidating, brutalising and killing others in the company of fellow worshippers must be very satisfying to many. I suspect there is a large following of "moderates" who also derive some pleasure in seeing their brethren win one or two for the Gipper, although it wouldn't do to brag in polite western society.
> 
> I watched enough Saturday matinee serials at the old town cinema as a boy to know that you can't trust anyone except your mum and the hero of the series to tell the truth while the cutthroat villains implore everyone to believe their benevolence and peaceful aspirations...I suspect it's a script that has been played out in real life for thousands of years and mature societies are doomed to fall victim to it every time.




see previous posts from ValueCollector (ex army) regarding the celebrations of US troops when targets were blown up.

After the execution of James Foley, who many people would want to see his murderer suffer the same fate (I believe you bought that question up elsewhere).

Violence does tend to breed violence, and the enjoyment of it, unfortunately.


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