# Tony Robbins Conference - Unleash the Power Within



## pavilion103 (2 March 2011)

In Sydney this Friday 4th March - Monday 7th March and includes the fire walk.

Who is going?


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## breaker (2 March 2011)

The fire brigade ?


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## wayneL (2 March 2011)

The only thing being unleashed is a stream of BS... oh and of course lots of $$$ from punters wallets.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (2 March 2011)

wayneL said:


> The only thing being unleashed is a stream of BS... oh and of course lots of $$$ from punters wallets.



I'm curious as to why you say so Wayne. Have you seen him live, read a book etc? which has given you this impression. I haven't read any books of his or been to a show etc.


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## nunthewiser (2 March 2011)

When i read the thread title i was almost inspired to do some pushups.

almost.


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## breaker (2 March 2011)

Jesuuus Nun grab yaself a six pack of heavy and couple of winnie reds and pace yourself


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## pavilion103 (2 March 2011)

Lol always a sceptic. 

What part of his seminar/teaching in partiular is BS?

Funny how the ones who don't go are the ones who need it the most. Figures


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## Muschu (2 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> In Sydney this Friday 4th March - Monday 7th March and includes the fire walk.
> 
> Who is going?




The Skeptics Association has  arranged the same firewalks which are explainable on scientific grounds.  Ask Robbins to walk across a very hot steel plate instead of well-spread smoldering coals..... Make a comparison between the coals and a very hot bitumen road.... I  could go on.
May I suggest that you do some research on the critics of Robbins [and many other of his ilk] so that you have all sides of the story before making an informed decision. 
Robbins can provide a short-term high for many and learning to read beneath the hype is recommended.  Look for the substance to support the promises.
In my view his greatest capacity is to take advantage of people who are vulnerable [please note that I did not say "gullible" as there is a huge difference].
Just my view.


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## Wysiwyg (3 March 2011)

nunthewiser said:


> When i read the thread title i was almost inspired to do some pushups.
> 
> almost.






breaker said:


> Jesuuus Nun grab yaself a six pack of heavy and couple of winnie reds and pace yourself


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## Wysiwyg (3 March 2011)

Muschu said:


> The Skeptics Association has  arranged the same firewalks which are explainable on scientific grounds.  Ask Robbins to walk across a very hot steel plate instead of well-spread smoldering coals..... Make a comparison between the coals and a very hot bitumen road.... I  could go on.
> Just my view.



 Reminds me of when I fire walked in a supposedly psyched state of mind. By the time my turn came around I was feeling normal and remember seeing a few up front come out the other side of the coal bed with coals stuck to their feet and assistants quickly brushed the coals away. I didn't get burned but I believe that is because I walked very quickly.


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## wayneL (3 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> Lol always a sceptic.
> 
> What part of his seminar/teaching in partiular is BS?
> 
> Funny how the ones who don't go are the ones who need it the most. Figures




Ahh the standard knee jerk defense from indoctrinated acolytes. So one cannot succeed without going to Robbins? pffft

There are good points and bad points of his teaching and it all depends what you want from life; what sort of person you want to be and what your priorities are.

I imagine a certain type of person would get a lot out of it, but I have seen lots and lots of friends and acquaintances, charged up by a Robbins Seminar,  go out and screw up their lives.

Some make money alright, but lose something else in the process.

Later, when their priorities come back into line they feel a bit foolish.

The psychology is like Amway. (In fact MLM companies like to use Robbins et al)

I am not against self help, in fact I recommend it, but think Robbins style is usually more harmful than helpful in most cases. I prefer gurus that help you find your main priorities and take "massive action" on those.

Pavilion, rather that ridiculous platitudes like the one you've regurgitated above, my main point is that a mass seminar cannot understand what an individual needs. Sometimes Tony Robbins is exactly many people don't need.

My opinion.


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## Whiskers (3 March 2011)

wayneL said:


> I imagine a certain type of person would get a lot out of it, but I have seen lots and lots of friends and acquaintances, charged up by a Robbins Seminar,  go out and screw up their lives.
> 
> 
> The psychology is like Amway. (In fact MLM companies like to use Robbins et al)




I can vouch for that. I went along to a few Amway events many years ago and Robbins was certainly one of their main tools.



> ...my main point is that a mass seminar cannot understand what an individual needs. Sometimes Tony Robbins is exactly many people don't need.




That is the bottom line. 

Robbins mass motivation is all about moving his or his clients product or service. It has precious little to do with taylored individual self assessement and personal development. 

Apart from some tertiary subjects on psychology and what is called Human Resource Management these days, I have participated in an intensive 6 days and 4 nights group course that is nothing like a Robins seminar... it was a small group designed to be no more than 20 odd just large enough to interact in small groups after an individual self assessement questionare provided a basic behavioural and learning style for the facilator to design small group activities to understand other styles... and that was just an introduction.

It took literally years to get a good honest grasp of one's own behavioural and learning styles, let alone trying to understand and manage others.  The hardest part is coming to terms of being brutally honest with yourself about your own traits because this is the filter that determines how you see the rest of the world.

From what I saw of Robbins, he provides little of this but much more of the Nike motto... Just Do It. Pretty much conditioning you to believe that if you get excited enough about it, it will work for you. That works ok for a certain personality style for a bit longer that others who may just get committed for long enough to spend a few bucks, until you burn out or eventually realise it's not for you. 

Amway had a saying in their sales pitch essentially to cold call as many as you can and invite them along (to the high powered senior members semiars) [sales pitch], some will drop out, but work with [push] those [certain personality type] who stay with you to move them along the chain and use them as an example to revisit and show those who dropped out what can be achieved.

Food for thought: Personal development involves Learning Styles, including Concrete or Reflective, to mention two styles, as well as Behavioural Styles often termed Doer or Analytic to mention only two again. You will learn how people often behave differently in groups to when alone. 

In my opinion for personal development you would be better off with a personal or small group/class course or psychology coach... for power sales go with Robins, but be prepared for some backlash from a hard sell approach.


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## pavilion103 (3 March 2011)

With most things there are good and bad. To get the most out of it you need to focus on the best parts. 

For me I love how he talks about pain and pleasure as the primary motivators and how it doesn't take will power to do something but getting enough leverage on yourself (eg a smoker not wanting to smoke anymore rather than forcing himself not to). Also creating positive associations.

Also your state of mind will determine how much of your resources you can optimize at any one time. And how he emphasizes repetition as the mother of skill.

I also like his tips for high energy diets. 

None of this is exclusive to TR but great material to use if you look at it objectively and not just whose mouth it comes out of.


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## Whiskers (4 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> With most things there are good and bad. To get the most out of it you need to focus on the best parts.




Ahhh... that is a good hint that it's not a holistic personal development program... or at least that you are looking to exploit it, not properly understand it. 

But, I'm prepared to be corrected if you can explain further.



> Also creating positive associations.
> 
> Also your state of mind will determine how much of your resources you can optimize at any one time. And how he emphasizes repetition as the mother of skill.





That should be repetition of a skill... not the art of being skillfull. That's a different dynamic all together.

Repetition is actually an inhibitor to being skillfull, ie dynamic thinking outside the square and keeping ahead of the paradym shift, ie up with the latest skills, technology, profitable business practises etc. 

But, repetition is a handy tool for mass marketing/production etc.


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## pavilion103 (4 March 2011)

I don't look at anything as holistic. I take the parts that resonate with me and discard those that don't. I don't think there will ever be one perfect 

I love how John wooden would take his best shooter in practice and say shoot me 400 free throws. When he said that he knew how John said he knows buy he wants to make sure he can do it in the pressure moments of the big games. All the greats trained harder on the basics over and over than anyone else


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## ChaoSI (4 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> With most things there are good and bad. To get the most out of it you need to focus on the best parts.
> 
> For me I love how he talks about pain and pleasure as the primary motivators and how it doesn't take will power to do something but getting enough leverage on yourself (eg a smoker not wanting to smoke anymore rather than forcing himself not to). Also creating positive associations.
> 
> ...




i haven't been cos i generally refuse to look at self help stuff. (covered this in the psychology thread in "general")

from what you say, that stuff about pleasure and pain is basic psychology, conditioning in fact. Pavlov did it with his dogs.

and incorrect (imo) about the will power. Anything that involves you doing something that you don't want to do involves willpower, unless you love your job SOO much, even just the act of getting up at *time* in the morning just to go to work takes willpower.

Smoking (for smoker) is an enjoyable behaviour, unless you manage to reshape thought around smoking, the only way you will be able to stop is via self-regulation/self control/willpower. The more times you're able to stop the more likely you will continue to abstain... also, what generally happens with 'reformed" smokers is that the enjoyment of cigarettes hasn't decreased at all, what's changed is that either
a/ the smoking as a rewarding behaviour has decreased OR
b/ that the NOT smoking behaviour has become more desirable.

--> check out the Premack Principle for this one.... 
--> also check out Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for the cognitive restructuring..


what i think about self help, is that the people who benefit are most likely the people who probably could've done it themselves, and the people who don't are the people who went looking for somebody else to blame..



repetition isn't the mother of all skills, perfect repetition is.
anybody can swing a golf club  1000 times.... question is whether you can do it perfectly every time even when you're tired.


what i feel people gain the most (the ones who can't do it alone) they need a large group in order to feel that they have others who are trying to do what they're doing. I mean really people don't HAVE to go to church to listen to sermons, they could technically preach to themselves at home. 

... sorry  i can never keep posts short ^^"


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## pavilion103 (4 March 2011)

The reason you get up early in the morning to go to work is because the pain associated with getting fired is more than the pleasure you would get from sleeping in. 

Tony Robbins does mention Pavlov. He doesn't claim that it is anything new. 

In terms of going with a group I'm not sure it's that important. I wish it was a one on one session. I've read books and listened to programs (including) his on my own without even discussing it with others. I'm going because he is there.


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## ChaoSI (4 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> The reason you get up early in the morning to go to work is because the pain associated with getting fired is more than the pleasure you would get from sleeping in.



silly me sorry it wouldn't be considered Pavlovian, it's more operant conditioning so Skinner and his pigeons..

it's not necessarily about pleasure and pain... in those words i mean. People don't *necessarily* get out of bed because they're avoiding the pain of getting fired (negative reinforcement) work is a secondary reinforcer. People don't go to work for the work, they go for the money (enjoyment is irrelevent), which in itself is without value, but money allows access to things that you DO enjoy (eating, playing etc.). [Premack principle] The pleasure and pain theory is only retrospective, and while you can explain a person's behaviour after the fact using it, you aren't really able to predict behaviour with it.

for instance guy A starts going to the gym, does he end up achieving his fitness goals?
the problem with the pleasure pain "hypothesis" i'll call it, is that it predicts that both things can happen and as such it doesn't really work (irrefutable) 
a/ A could see the pleasure of a new body over the pain of having to go to the gym and become mr muscle
or 
B/ A feels that leading the lazy lifestyle is more pleasureable than the pain of going to the gym.
both follow from TR's P P "motivator" idea. (and really in that sense he's good at marketing because he can't be proven wrong) but in the psychological realm it doesn't really qualify because it is inconsistent and relies on cognition and retrospect interpretation.

as for the group thing i'm not saying you personally go for the group just that it is a possible explanation.

for the record, not that it matters but I have nothing against you going to his seminars of course, but just wanted to call attention to certain things which i feel are a bit..... misleading to say the least.....


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 March 2011)

I think anyone who goes to these seminars, who is a member of ASF, and can access the knowledge of stocks and investment advice available, and who has read all the comments from senior members about this turkey, ............................................................................... 

Is a complete and utter muppet.

gg


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## Solly (4 March 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I think anyone who goes to these seminars, who is a member of ASF, and can access the knowledge of stocks and investment advice available, and who has read all the comments from senior members about this turkey, ...............................................................................
> 
> Is a complete and utter muppet.
> 
> gg




GG

I have a new mentor, Robbins is so 1990's 

http://twitter.com/#!/charliesheen/status/43432688190898176

S


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## Julia (4 March 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> i haven't been cos i generally refuse to look at self help stuff. (covered this in the psychology thread in "general")
> 
> from what you say, that stuff about pleasure and pain is basic psychology, conditioning in fact. Pavlov did it with his dogs.
> 
> ...



No need to apologise Chaos.  It's an interesting and sensible post.


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## aarbee (4 March 2011)

Hi Pavilion,

You've got the right attitude for attending this seminar. One has to be coachable to get anything from any seminar. Maybe I don't have to tell you this but go with a positive attitude and enjoy. And above all, participate to the max. Tony's seminars are high-energy for a reason. There is a tremendous amount there to learn. I firmly believe that in any self-help seminar, one only gets what one wants to get. 

I have attended many of Tony's and other seminars and know of many others who did too. There are some whose lives completely change (for the better) and some who fall in the old state of being soon after the seminar and then there are a few who just keep wondering as to what was all the fuss about. And then there are thevast numbers of non-attendees who are the loudest in expressing their opinions about what rubbish the seminar is. 

Internet is a curious beast. The loudest voices are mostly of criticism and that too from people who shout their opinions on experiences that they have not undergone. We just love to hold on to our opinions like a security blanket inside our comfort zones. 

To all those here who are criticising Tony Robbins in particular and self-help seminars in general and snidely remarking about the $$$ etc, you don't have to spend big dollars on the seminars. There is a lot in the books like "Awaken the Giant Within", "Unlimited Power". You could even buy his audio programs on eBay for not a lot of $$. I for one have not regretted spending on Tony's programs/seminars or for that matter on any of the other seminars/books/audio/video programs. 

Hope you have a good time in Sydney. Once you are back after having attended the seminar, you could then legitimately write your critique in this forum or anywhere else. Your views, negative or positive, would have some legitimacy.

Cheers


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## trainspotter (4 March 2011)

Tony Robbins is at the top of his game, earning ONE MILLION dollars for personal coaching and that doesn’t include the 50 million dollars a year with the Anthony Robbins Companies’ sales. His fees are the highest in the business. 

http://devology.wordpress.com/category/tony-robbins/

WOW ....... He must be good !

In Shallow Hal Robbins appears in a scene with Jack Black in an elevator and Robbins hypnotizes Black in order to change his mental state. Black then sees people's outward appearance based on their inner personality. During the scene, Black refers to Robbins' hands as "banana hands". Robbins' wife Sage, also has a cameo appearance in the movie.

Anthony Robbins was born Anthony J. *Mahavorick *at North Hollywood, California, United States of America on 29th of February 1960. He was 51 a few days ago.

Having been to many of these kind of "motivational speakers" I must say Tony Robbins is the best at what they have to offer.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 March 2011)

trainspotter said:


> Tony Robbins is at the top of his game, earning ONE MILLION dollars for personal coaching and that doesn’t include the 50 million dollars a year with the Anthony Robbins Companies’ sales. His fees are the highest in the business.
> 
> http://devology.wordpress.com/category/tony-robbins/
> 
> ...




Sounds more like a religion. 

Mum a virgin ?

gg


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## Gringotts Bank (5 March 2011)

Let's say it costs $1000 to attend.

An alternative way to spend the same money and get more actual real life benefit:

Go shopping, get a nice pair of shoes $300, and a jacket $500.

Get a table at Vue do Monde.  Wear your new stuff.  3 courses.  What would that cost?  No idea, never been there, let's say $300 for a couple.  

Done.  Oh yeh I went over budget, but remember Tony is going to get you to spend a bit more when you're there for his other courses, books, dvds.

If you spend the money on dinner/clothes, you will boost your mood to a higher degree, because you're actually *living it,* rather than attempting to live the future potential of something that is unlikely to happen.  Your boosted mood will last maybe 12-24 hours, which is about the same as a seminar, but with my option you don't have to hug a total stranger nor jump up and down like a ****ing fool.  You get to keep the jacket and shoes.


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## Tightwad (5 March 2011)

Travelling salesmen should not be able to practice psudoscientific psychology en-masse.


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## GumbyLearner (5 March 2011)

The movie Bowfinger featuring "Mindhead" is what I think of these kind of enterprises.


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## Wysiwyg (5 March 2011)

I like watching, listening and reading about successful people and it appears to me what they all have in common is they have something many people want. If you have Wing Wongs for a goose's bridle selling at a buck each and a million people want Wing Wongs for their goose's bridle then that is millionaire stuff. 

If you have energy, charisma, high self esteem, inner strength, knowledge and belief then people are attracted to that too.

I occasionally thought I was ill when out seeking enlightenment and personal mind growth. Why would one be seeking such if they were not ill. Truth was I inherited a guilt complex and thought I had done so many people wrong. Truth was I was introverted and weak so feared many people and situations. Truth was I was trying to keep friends by folding to peer group pressure. Truth was I was nervous under scrutiny and would make mistakes. Truth was I felt inferior to anyone more intelligent or larger framed.

So people like Anthony (though I have never met him before) open doors to places that people wanting to improve their lives can walk through into a new world. For as the saying goes ... With our thoughts we make the world.


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Sounds more like a religion.
> 
> Mum a virgin ?
> 
> gg






Wysiwyg said:


> I like watching, listening and reading about successful people and it appears to me what they all have in common is they have something many people want. If you have Wing Wongs for a goose's bridle selling at a buck each and a million people want Wing Wongs for their goose's bridle then that is millionaire stuff.
> 
> If you have energy, charisma, high self esteem, inner strength, knowledge and belief then people are attracted to that too.
> 
> ...




And in the beginning was the word, and the word was robbins....

Gimme a break

gg


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## Wysiwyg (6 March 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> And in the beginning was the word, and the word was robbins....
> 
> Gimme a break
> 
> gg



Wondering why Garpy thinks Robbins is not a good thing for the human race?


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> Wondering why Garpy thinks Robbins is not a good thing for the human race?




As a banana picker he would be supreme.

We all have our own place in gaia.

gg


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## Wysiwyg (6 March 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> As a banana picker he would be supreme.
> 
> We all have our own place in gaia.
> 
> gg




What about this author?  ... 

Grace, Gaia, and the End of Days
The Healing Secret
By Stuart Wilde


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> What about this author?  ...
> 
> Grace, Gaia, and the End of Days
> The Healing Secret
> By Stuart Wilde




No comment, except as in the Castle, "Yer Dreamin".

gg


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## Wysiwyg (6 March 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> No comment, except as in the Castle, "Yer Dreamin".
> 
> gg



 Ah yes. That must mean that in life there are ... No dreams, only dreaming. :


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> Ah yes. That must mean that in life there are ... No dreams, only dreaming. :




He is a very rich muppet on the dreams of lesser muppets.

I wouldn't send him down to the corner shop for a cigarillo.

gg


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## ChaoSI (7 March 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> I like watching, listening and reading about successful people and it appears to me what they all have in common is they have something many people want. If you have Wing Wongs for a goose's bridle selling at a buck each and a million people want Wing Wongs for their goose's bridle then that is millionaire stuff.
> 
> If you have energy, charisma, high self esteem, inner strength, knowledge and belief then people are attracted to that too.
> 
> ...




good reason to go.....
to  a psychologist or a counsellor.. might've been cheaper  claim it on medicare hahahaha


how much is a seminar anyway?


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## tigerboi (7 March 2011)

*Re: Tony Robbins Conference - Unleash the bull**** Within*



wayneL said:


> The only thing being unleashed is a stream of BS... oh and of course lots of $$$ from punters wallets.




i was going to say what a load of rubbish & anyone sucked in is a total fool
but wayne has said it short & sweet...

total garbage...tigerboi


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## Wysiwyg (7 March 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> good reason to go.....
> to  a psychologist or a counsellor.. might've been cheaper  claim it on medicare hahahaha



Going back a while and a different person now. 

In a primitive way, bullies would sense my weakness and prey on me. I notice that happens to other weaker beings also. Preying on the weak. My best personal growth came when I punched a few. One case had a loosed tooth and never picked on me again while the other ended up with a red rosey face and a whimper. For some reason I don't get hassled nowadays. Like I said ... my best personal growth.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 March 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> Going back a while and a different person now.
> 
> In a primitive way, bullies would sense my weakness and prey on me. I notice that happens to other weaker beings also. Preying on the weak. My best personal growth came when I punched a few. One case had a loosed tooth and never picked on me again while the other ended up with a red rosey face and a whimper. For some reason I don't get hassled nowadays. Like I said ... my best personal growth.




Passive aggression going active, or active aggression going passive.

Take your pick. Sorry. See I can do it as well.

However wysiwyg, whether you find this dill good for you or not, he is good for you, and if it doesn't break the bank I can understand why you would pay for the experience.

I myself have spent thousands on Leunig cartoons. 

gg


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## pavilion103 (9 March 2011)

It was a great experience. 

Tony Robbins is on the money with a number of things such as:

- The 6 universal human needs
- How our values and then beliefs shape the quality of our life. If we set impossible standards and don't feel successful we won't be in a resourceful state. 
- The principle of pain and pleasure and getting leverage on yourself to change
- How a few simple shifts in diet can take us away from an acidic body and create lasting energy

I don't believe absolutely everything he teaches but no doubt he is one of the best. 

Like I said previously you take the good and bad and use the good. 

I feel sorry for people who can't see the good in things. You basically get out of it what you are looking for. 

People can put him and his teachings down until they are black and blue in the face but the reality is he is an enormous success and changing the lives of many many people.

I wouldn't go as far as attending the Mastery University (4 courses for $9995), but as for an $800, 4 day conference, if you use the material it is well well worth it.

Would highly recommend.


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## Julia (9 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> It was a great experience.
> 
> Tony Robbins is on the money with a number of things such as:
> 
> - The 6 universal human needs



What are these?




> - How a few simple shifts in diet can take us away from an acidic body and create lasting energy



Um, what is an 'acidic body'?
How is this remedied?
Is Mr Robbins a nutritionist also?



> You basically get out of it what you are looking for.



True enough.  Most of us go through life seeking others who are more influential than ourselves who will offer us confirmation of what we already believe.  This is immensely reassuring to us.




> People can put him and his teachings down until they are black and blue in the face but the reality is he is an enormous success and changing the lives of many many people.



I'm really fascinated by this.  Not at all suggesting it's not so.  Rather just wondering why so many people need a guru to inspire them into what should be pretty obvious.
Are we collectively so lacking in drive and imagination that we need to pay someone to fire us up to appreciate what we should readily see?

And I'm not - as it would seem - knocking people who want to attend this sort of thing if they really feel they get their money's worth.  Just really curious as to why they need to.
Is it an age thing?  i.e. are the attendees mostly young people who simply haven't had enough life experience to work things out for themselves?


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## Gringotts Bank (10 March 2011)

*Maslow's heirachy of needs:*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

*Freud's Pleasure Principle:*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_principle_(psychology)

*Alkaline Diet:*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_diet


It's all on Wikipedia.  However, my feeling is that people go for the entertainment and pump-up value, which is fine.  To be around exciting people is actually quite fun, and we all do a bit of that in our own way.  Going to a sporting event would be the same sort of deal.  Bit cheaper tho!


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## motorway (10 March 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> *Maslow's heirachy of needs:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very poor overview of "Alkaline Diet"

here is a defining Study 


"Bone health is substantially dependent on dietary acid/base balance.  All foods upon digestion ultimately must report to the kidney as either acid or base.  When the diet yields a net acid load (such as low-carb fad diets that restrict consumption of fruits and vegetables), the acid must be buffered by the alkaline stores of base in the body.  Calcium salts in the bones represent the largest store of alkaline base in the body and are depleted and eliminated in the urine when the diet produces a net acid load."

Remer T, Manz F.  Potential renal acid load of foods and its influence on urine pH. J Am Diet Assoc 1995;95:791-797.

And hence Health esp Bone Health

eg 

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v65/n3/abs/ejcn2010264a.html?WT.ec_id=EJCN-201103


Motorway


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## aarbee (10 March 2011)

Julia said:


> I'm really fascinated by this.  Not at all suggesting it's not so.  Rather just wondering why so many people need a guru to inspire them into what should be pretty obvious.
> Are we collectively so lacking in drive and imagination that we need to pay someone to fire us up to appreciate what we should readily see?
> 
> And I'm not - as it would seem - knocking people who want to attend this sort of thing if they really feel they get their money's worth.  Just really curious as to why they need to.
> Is it an age thing?  i.e. are the attendees mostly young people who simply haven't had enough life experience to work things out for themselves?




No matter how motivated we are towards whatever we love doing, there is always room to improve. That is the reason that the best of best sportsmen still have coaches. It is the coach's job to point out the things that the athlete, despite his drive, passion and knowledge of techniques, fails to see. I look at Tony and his ilk as life coaches. I am generally a very positive and driven person, but would credit Tony and quite a few others to have shown things to me that I find of immense value in understanding a bit about myself. It helps me find the things I don't know that I don't know.

As I pointed out in my earlier posting, for those who've got an aversion to attending seminars conducted by larger than life, ra-ra seminar presenters with big teeth, reading books written by them or listening to audio programs would be a good way of atleast trying to find out what is on offer. For the cost of a paperback one can buy a whole CD set on Ebay. Surely, it is not a very expensive way to learn something about the man and his views and what he has to offer before making sweeping generalisations about it being BS etc as some of the posters have done. I would have no problems accepting their view if they've exposed themselves to his work and arrived at whatever opinion they are spouting. 

Cheers


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## Gringotts Bank (10 March 2011)

aarbee, no aversion here, just avoidance!  I have seen him on late night TV (full lectures were aired a while back) and I have also been dragged along to a Chris Howard seminar, which looked very similar.  The person who insisted I go with ended up enrolling in some multi-millionaire series that he runs in Hawaii and it got her nowhere.  The sum total was a loss of about $5000 for her.  She put in *massive *amounts of work and participated fully.

I'm not against psychological methods.  In fact that's all I use myself in my trading.  I just don't buy what he says.  If his stuff worked, don't you think we'd all know about it by now?

the other thing is, the people that attended the Chris Howard thing all looked unusual to me.  Sort of like Amway dudes.  You know the look?  Yeh that!


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## aarbee (10 March 2011)

Hi Gringotts, 

I have attended Chris Howard many years back and attended quite a few Amway meetings and they didn't do anything for me. Chris Howard is called a Tony Robbins wannabee for a reason.  Although there were a couple of things I gained in the Chris Howard's seminar but Amway meetings were a waste of time. 

There is nothing esoteric in Tony's seminars. The 6 human needs (based on Maslow's heirarchy of needs) and other NLP stuff etc is all there in the books written by others too. Tony freely acknowledges that. Where he excels is in the way he delivers that message which is quite unique and effective. I would again reiterate, one doesn't need to attend the seminars costing thousands of dollars, though the seminar atmosphere does move some people to action way more than books or tapes. Different people react differently. 

Perhaps, I am just different. I have been going downhill since my 20th birthday when I was at the pinnacle of knowledge and experience. I knew all there was to know. Now, for the last 30 years, with every passing day and every new experience I realise how little I know and how much more there is to learn about myself. Trading is the greatest vehicle of self-discovery and self-help seminars, books, tapes, videos are useful too.

Cheers


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## matty77 (10 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> It was a great experience.
> 
> Tony Robbins is on the money with a number of things such as:
> 
> ...




Please revisit this in 3 months, 12 months and tell us how you have improved your life, if you think it was still worth it, and if you are still motivated....


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## pavilion103 (10 March 2011)

matty77 said:


> Please revisit this in 3 months, 12 months and tell us how you have improved your life, if you think it was still worth it, and if you are still motivated....




Good point. I also went and saw him at the Ultimate Success Summit last September in Sydney (along with other speakers). It is a direct result of that that I have taken action developing my trading system. I went from spending about 2 hours a week (which I didn't even enjoy), to committing 15 hours a week and purchasing software, more books, learning etc... I was really struggling with motivation and struggling to take action until then. That was the leverage I needed and I have now made strong progress. As far as the rest of my life, I am still applying a number of exercises and feel the best I ever have in the past 6 months. Very worth it. 

After UPW conference on the weekend I realise how much I want to step it up further and have the tools to transform my mindset, goals, beliefs etc. I want to commit to closer to 30 hours a week now on top of full time work. I've got new associations, priorities and even stronger outlook and feel amazing (as well as making new friends over the weekend which I will keep in touch with)

I will revisit my feelings about it in 3-6 months but if it's anything like the last time I heard him (and other) it will be well worth it, because without it I would have barely got started


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## pavilion103 (10 March 2011)

I do understand your point however, but I am the type of person who will commit the hours implementing the techniques learnt (I did go through a 3 year period where I read over 200 books and implemented very little however).


To answer the other questions. The reason you need someone else to help you is because they have got the results in life that you are seeking. Why try to reinvent the wheel when you can model the techniques/strategies that they have spent years developing (if you like those techniques)? People have different gifts and if someone can help to inspire you and bring out something in you then why not listen to them?

In terms of those 3 links, I'm not sure how a few paragraphs of writing covers a the material covered in 50 hours over a 4 day seminar. If a person who attended is prepared to use the material is will assist them greatly. If they are not then it's not Tony's fault but the individual. 


I understand different people have different opinions but it would be good if they were all informed. His seminar is one of many things which are helpful. Add to the content covered the bonus of a wonderful experience, new friends made and a great weekend away. All the material is pretty much contained in his Personal Power II audio program. So $300 on that is the cheap alternative, however I would go see him live again. I wouldn't spend more than $1,000 to see any speaker but for TR $800 was good value. If someone coming out of it can improve their life by $800 from having been there, then there is something seriously wrong with them and not the program.


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## wayneL (10 March 2011)

aarbee said:


> No matter how motivated we are towards whatever we love doing, there is always room to improve. That is the reason that the best of best sportsmen still have coaches. It is the coach's job to point out the things that the athlete, despite his drive, passion and knowledge of techniques, fails to see.




The coach thing is a good point, but how many sportspeople do you know that turn up to a $5000 weekend seminar for their coaching?

That's right, exactly zero.

Coaching is an ongoing enterprise; the coach making incremental improvements on a day by day basis, not a massive improvement in one fell swoop.

If you want a life coach, have one that is around you a lot.


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## pavilion103 (10 March 2011)

wayneL said:


> The coach thing is a good point, but how many sportspeople do you know that turn up to a $5000 weekend seminar for their coaching?
> 
> That's right, exactly zero.
> 
> ...




That's a very good point. It's not so much coaching as it is presenting. 

I think one other aspect is that is expands the mind being around people with that level of success. It's quite motivating and takes you above the day to day ordinary life. Granted, if you do nothing with that motivation it is a waste of time. I'm not saying that it's worth $5,000, as I said previously, I wouldn't pay that much.


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## Ruby (10 March 2011)

I don't wish to denigrate the positive benefits some people gain from these things, but my experience (personal and observation of others) is that the euphoria generated is short lived.   I went to quite a few of these personal growth type things when they started to proliferate about 30 years ago.

It's almost like mass hypnosis - the presenter whips up the atmosphere and the emotion - and everyone gets carried along on the tide of good feeling and better intentions, but once ordinary life resumes it is hard to keep that momentum going.  It is not unlike fundamentalist religious meetings with people swaying to and fro, falling backwards when the preacher touches them, and having their ailments 'cured'.  The cures rarely last.  

Having said that, I *do *know some people make permanent life changes as a result of one of these courses, but I think they are very few.


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## wayneL (10 March 2011)

IMO the big question is "what do you want from life". These types of seminars can trick people into thinking that untold wealth is what they want.

While I think having boxes of money lying around the house is a fine thing, there is a price for any prize. I lust after untold wealth as much as the next self centered ars5hole, but the price for me is too expensive.

This is the danger IMO of such seminars is the skewing of price/prize dynamics as it relates to an individual's happiness. I like people with a balance of needs as it relates to human interactions and wealth goals... I would prefer a friend over a dollar.

I think modern society has lost its way and prefers a dollar over a friend and I believe seminars such as Robbin's engenders this attitude and amplifies it.

Don't get me wrong, "poor" is not the path to happiness, but neither is chasing wealth... there is a balance that is optimum.


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## pavilion103 (10 March 2011)

Tony Robbins teaches that growth and contribution are the 2 highest needs and emphasizes happiness as the main goal, not financial success. It is very relationship focused.

If people are going to knock anything, knock the people who attend the seminars and don't use the stuff. Don't knock the presenter, event or materials. These things have been aroun long enough for people to know what they are. In addition to this they are given valuable tools that other successful people implement yet they choose not to use them.


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## Gringotts Bank (10 March 2011)

aarbee said:


> Hi Gringotts,
> 
> There is nothing esoteric in Tony's seminars.
> 
> ...




Esoteric is fine by me.  In fact I'd prefer esoteric to mainstream psychology.  I can get down with the best of them, so long as it works in real life... that's the only condition.  People think that progressing in trading is about understanding charts and balance sheets in more detail, but it's not.  It's about uncovering and analysing all those deep murky beliefs that linger in the unconscious, and seeing how they direct all our behaviours.  So I agree with you that trading can be a great tool for self-understanding.


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## wayneL (10 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> Tony Robbins teaches that growth and contribution are the 2 highest needs and emphasizes happiness as the main goal, not financial success. It is very relationship focused.
> 
> If people are going to knock anything, knock the people who attend the seminars and don't use the stuff. Don't knock the presenter, event or materials. These things have been aroun long enough for people to know what they are. In addition to this they are given valuable tools that other successful people implement yet they choose not to use them.




I suspect there is a problem in delivery then, as IME the above purported message has failed to be transmuted to the plebeians who attend.

Indeed it is apparent that Robbins himself's relationships are as problematic as the average pleb.


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## Wysiwyg (10 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> It's quite motivating and takes you above the day to day ordinary life.



And then one has the awareness of falling back into the way it was before. Drawn back to the way it was before by naysayers and those of pessimistic incline or the mass psyche in our day to day habits. I believe inner strength, determination and boundless energy is what all successful people have. Maybe Tony's message is "tap it".

Did you walk the hot coals with fear?


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## pavilion103 (10 March 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> And then one has the awareness of falling back into the way it was before. Drawn back to the way it was before by naysayers and those of pessimistic incline or the mass psyche in our day to day habits. I believe inner strength, determination and boundless energy is what all successful people have. Maybe Tony's message is "tap it".
> 
> Did you walk the hot coals with fear?




I agree mate. It's only after reading hundreds of books that I even started to feel any sort of inner strength to move against my current environment. I'm still learning, but am in a really great place. I know I know nothing, yet I know I am in a good place.

To be honest I didn't really fear it. The fact that thousands of other people can do it makes you realise it obviously isn't impossible/difficult. Having said that a great experience. I'm going to tackle some other fears in the near future such as sky diving and bungy jumping.


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## aarbee (10 March 2011)

wayneL said:


> I think modern society has lost its way and prefers a dollar over a friend and I believe seminars such as Robbin's engenders this attitude and amplifies it.




This is really the reason why I keep labouring the point that before voicing opinions one should make an effort to expose oneself to the message.  TR is not about greed and pursuit of money. It is all about balance in life. Instead of forming strong opinions based on vicarious experiences, please just read one of his books or listen to one of his audio programs. You don't have to go to his seminars and hug strangers. Personally, I have made some very nice friends that I met at his seminar many years ago and still meet on regular basis. 

Tony does have his Wealth Mastery seminar that others present under his banner. I have never been tempted to attend that one. To me the value of his teaching is not in chasing money but balance in life. 

Matter of fact, week before last Christmas I took my two boys for packing gift hampers as part of TR inspired local chapter of the international basket brigade. Talk of quiet, motivated bunch of people going about contributing to the society. The boys learnt more about life and caring and giving in a day than they would in a year of Sunday school. 

As for coaching, there are a lot of people like Andre Agassi, Venus Williams, Anthony Hopkins, Bill Clinton,  et al who pay far far more to TR for coaching than the $5,000 you mentioned. As for me, attending a couple of his seminars was an eye opener for me and  I still regularly listen to his audio CDs. 

Cheers


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## aarbee (10 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> I'm going to tackle some other fears in the near future such as sky diving and bungy jumping.




That's a very good idea. My experience was the same as yours, though even after watching others do it, there is always trepidation before taking the first step on burning coals. It is a great experience. 

In December, I took up skydiving. Talk about overcoming your fear. Just like trading, I learnt more about myself in a few jumps than years of self study.  I would strongly encourage you to go and do it. People go for the thrill and adrenaline but for me the main motivation was to get over my own fears. Just  do   it. I have done 15 jumps so far with about 10 to go for my A licence. I probably would give it up after getting the A licence and hopefully fear would, by then not be such a challenge. 

Cheers

Cheers


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## Julia (10 March 2011)

Back in, I think, the 80's there was a great book by Susan Jeffers called:

"Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway".

Just reading the post above reminded me of this book and how reading it changed my life in that I realised it usually costs nothing to 'have a go'.  Even if you fail, you are not back from where you started and you could be way ahead.


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## the phantom (11 March 2011)

Robbin's was so 15 years ago, is he still pushing his stuff ?

What was the phrase back then, NLP, you could 'basically' study someone, and then become them ... please. 

The word study is being abused, and mass marketed.

I remember mentioning to a psychiatrist, the self-help book crap to become an expert, he laughed his tit off.

Mild gigantism still helps I guess, with still influencing people.

You want to do anything , it requires alot, I mean alot of work, and it hurts, find some one to model if you are lucky, but do not forget about individual discovery, new ground, even if you find a model.


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## ChaoSI (11 March 2011)

pavilion103 said:


> In terms of those 3 links, I'm not sure how a few paragraphs of writing covers a the material covered in 50 hours over a 4 day seminar. If a person who attended is prepared to use the material is will assist them greatly. If they are not then it's not Tony's fault but the individual.




you make a good point that i didn't consider. [btw so awesome that you got so much out of the seminar dude. kudos to you =)]
although the knowledge and theory he uses isn't original by any means, it's about the bringing together of a bunch of knowledge and presenting it in a way that is easily palatable by people who probably would see "Maslow's Hierachy of Needs" and say "i don't really care or i cbb to read about it." Where really Maslow was a bit of a TR back in his day much like any psychology theorist. Freud, Skinner, Pavlov, Rogers, etc etc etc. 

The way he's been able to put it all together to 'help' people I will concede really is a skill. I mean i doubt people could really cover all of the pieces of his seminars in any real depth of understanding in 50 hours. So really he's capitalising on the laziness of many in a way


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## Wysiwyg (11 March 2011)

the phantom said:


> What was the phrase back then, NLP, you could 'basically' study someone, and then become them ... please.



 Robbins book, Unlimited Power, uses much of Richard Bandler and John Grinder's work on modeling. Being in such a heightened state of awareness where senses are working overtime assessing every tone, scent, movement, vibe, taste and more is possible but to the average pleb. like me (self confessed ) just isn't that appealing (modeling). Besides that I think mimicking/miming someone else is somewhat fake. At the core we are who we are.


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## Garpal Gumnut (17 March 2011)

I am travelling First Class to the US quite soon.

Does anyone know when this niterc is leaving Australia, as I'm booking my flight and would hate to be stuck in the same space as him for 12 hours?

gg


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## Tightwad (17 March 2011)

He probably has his own jet.. or a hovercraft that floats on a stream of his hot air.


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