# Man Investments - OM-IP 220



## MRC & Co

Just wondering if anybody has invested in this offer?

I currently only have about 15k in, but historical growth is strong and nearly always agree with their reports I receive.


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## trishan9390

MRC & Co said:


> Just wondering if anybody has invested in this offer?
> 
> I currently only have about 15k in, but historical growth is strong and nearly always agree with their reports I receive.




Yes I got the prospectus and will be using InvestSmart to get a rebate on comission fees. Looks like a solid investment.


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## MRC & Co

trishan9390 said:


> Yes I got the prospectus and will be using InvestSmart to get a rebate on comission fees. Looks like a solid investment.






I put 10k in there a few years ago now, which is currently valued around 15k.  Dont recall paying any commission?  In what form do you pay comisssion and how do you get a rebate on comission fees?

But definately looks like a very solid investment.  Good returns, capital guarantee, cant ask for much more than that! Won many awards also!


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## Muschu

Can someone, please, give me information on where I can learn more of Man Investements?  A website perhaps or advice on where to get a copy of the prospectus?
Many thanks


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## trishan9390

MRC, financial advisors get $200 every person that they refer. Investsmart.com.au will return this comission to you. I am going to give them a call and confirm this and will let u kno how it works.


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## Muschu

Part of my interest here is related to a question from my daughter-in-law [DIL] today.  [I'm retired and have a SMSF of direct stocks that I choose myself].
DIL has about 10k she wants to invest for her children's future education.  Hence the strategy probably should be mid to long term low risk with a likelihood of a "fair" return. 
It may be that the ASX is not for her.  But I was considering stocks such as ARG for example.
Is Man in this lower risk category?
Thanks for making the phone call -- look forward to the outcome.


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## MRC & Co

Ah k, I was actually recommended this by my cousin (a professional trader), so paid no commission.

Rick, check out: www.maninvestments.com.au (its part of Man Group).

Email:  info@maninvestments.com.au

Phone: (61-2) 8259 9999

Definately a good long-term investment I beleive.

They have different offerings that go out however, and mine is just the OM-IP 220. Others include OM-IP Strategic, OM-IP Hedge Plus etc etc.  

Every single one has risen, along with its capital guarantee.  For example, if you invested $1,000 in August 1997, you would now have a capital guarantee of $4,075 and a net asset value of $4,931.50.  Well worth it I beleive.  Especially in the current global environment.  If I didnt love trading so much myself (and with good results), I would just dump all my money in there!


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## Muschu

I have sent off for the Man Prospectus.  I have confirmed that InvestSmart will rebate the 4% sales commission.
My novice status goes this far:  If a person invests $5000 "capital guaranteed" then does this mean their $5k is forever safe?  If, after a year, the fund is worth, hypothetically, $5.4k does this mean that amount is "gauranteed"?  
I might see if I'm allow to start a new thread about Investing for the Grandkids Education [or something along those lines] and make a reference to this thread in doing so.
I would appreciate any further comments.
Thanks


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## CFD

Muschu said:


> ~~
> I would appreciate any further comments.
> Thanks




Such as:
Where does my money finish up being invested?
What is the g/- supported by?
Apart from the Comm. deducted from the original investment, what are other commisions are payable to which other parties?


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## Muschu

CFD said:


> Such as:
> Where does my money finish up being invested?
> What is the g/- supported by?
> Apart from the Comm. deducted from the original investment, what are other commisions are payable to which other parties?




From InvestSmart
"Man OM-IP 3Eclipse also provides the security of a Capital Guarantee and a Rising Guarantee from Commonwealth Bank of Australia, the CBA Guarantee+."
and
"Disclosure...
InvestSMART will rebate 100% of the 4% sales commission by cheque. InvestSMART will receive a trailing commission of 0.5%pa after the second year."
and
"Investment strategy
Man OM-IP 3Eclipse will invest in two complementary investment approaches with the aim to generate medium term capital growth* in both rising and falling markets.
The AHL Diversified Program is the foundation of the investment strategy. A systematic program managed by Man Investments in London, it invests in a range of market sectors in over 100 international markets. As one of the world's longest running managed futures programs, it identifies opportunities to take advantage of persistent market inefficiencies, primarily in the form of price trends. The AHL Diversified Program invests in a diversified portfolio of market sectors including stocks, bonds, currencies, short-term interest rates, energy, metals and agricultural contracts.
The RMF Portfolio currently accesses the expertise of more than 40 international managers and is managed by RMF Investment Management, Nassau branch. The RMF Portfolio will initially access two specialised investment approaches:
•	The RMF Asian Opportunities Portfolio accesses selected Asian-focused investment managers. The geographic focus may cover markets in the Asia Pacific region, such as Japan, China, India and Australia.
•	The RMF Commodity Strategies Portfolio uses investment managers that specialise in a diverse range of commodity sectors. These may include energy, transportation, power, metals, agriculture and livestock."


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## CFD

Rick62, I guess my point is that your quote from InvestSmart does not actually answer any of the questions I raised.

The CBA does not provide a G/- out of the kindness of its heart. What supports the G/-?

The Investment Strategy seems to indicate the funds are spread across a minimum of 42 Fund Managers. Assuming these guys do not do this out of the kindness of their hearts, what commissions are you paying them?

Where does your money finish up?

Might I suggest, most of the investment goes to the CBA lodged on Term Deposits which are then used as security for the G/-. ie the security for your investment is simply nothing more than your own money. The balance of funds finishes up with futures and hedge funds, but which ones and how much are you paying them?

If people do not know the answer to these questions how do they know it's a "solid investment"? Hedge funds have done well in the past but during the present financial crises some are in trouble through their banks closing off credit facilities or wanting higher margins.

I did not invest in these despite ComSec bombarding me with their recommendations, because the best I could do is put them in the too hard basket with my understanding of what was offered.


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## Awesomandy

I think the OM-IP 3Eclipse is a different fund from the OM-IP 220. They put money into different things, but I think the approach is somewhat similar. From what I know of, I think they are like a global macro/derivatives fund (if I'm making any sense at all). I know that some of this type of funds have been making good money - increase of NAV every single month for the most recent 8/9 months. 

I'm not sure what kind of fee structures they will have though, apart from what the investors have to pay the fund. I believe this is a fund of funds approach, so the OM-IP funds will need to pay fees to the funds that they invest in. Generally speaking, they will need to pay management fees each month (we call them MER in Australia), and then also a performance fee, generally 20 - 25% of the gains above the high water mark, and that's before OM-IP takes their cut. 

All up, it's a very expensive fund to invest in. However, you get your capital garantee, and IMHO, I would expect this fund to perform a little bit under a shares-only managed fund. I think it is suitable for a number of investors, but for a lot of other people, it's also worth looking at other options.


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## Muschu

Awesomandy said:


> I think the OM-IP 3Eclipse is a different fund from the OM-IP 220. They put money into different things, but I think the approach is somewhat similar. From what I know of, I think they are like a global macro/derivatives fund (if I'm making any sense at all). I know that some of this type of funds have been making good money - increase of NAV every single month for the most recent 8/9 months.
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of fee structures they will have though, apart from what the investors have to pay the fund. I believe this is a fund of funds approach, so the OM-IP funds will need to pay fees to the funds that they invest in. Generally speaking, they will need to pay management fees each month (we call them MER in Australia), and then also a performance fee, generally 20 - 25% of the gains above the high water mark, and that's before OM-IP takes their cut.
> 
> All up, it's a very expensive fund to invest in. However, you get your capital garantee, and IMHO, I would expect this fund to perform a little bit under a shares-only managed fund. I think it is suitable for a number of investors, but for a lot of other people, it's also worth looking at other options.




Thanks for this.  It seems a number of people are happy with the product and others, for various reasons, not so.
It's the "other options" that interests me.
What of ASX shares such as
Australian Foundation Investment Co AFI
Argo Investments ARG
or even
TCL?


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## Awesomandy

Muschu said:


> Thanks for this.  It seems a number of people are happy with the product and others, for various reasons, not so.
> It's the "other options" that interests me.
> What of ASX shares such as
> Australian Foundation Investment Co AFI
> Argo Investments ARG
> or even
> TCL?




How happy somebody is with the product would depends on their expected returns and investment strategy, which can be substantially different for each person.

The options you have referred to are funds that are listed on the stock exchange. I would suggest you to have a look at this website (on asx) http://www.asx.com.au/investor/lmi/index.htm
This would be a good starting point, I think. Although, if you are looking at funds, there is also the option of non-listed managed funds as well.


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## mattycat

*Re: Man Investments - OM-IP 220 Series 7 Re-investment offer*

does anyone here have thoughts / advice on the Man Series 7 fund which is about to mature and being offered for reinvestment?

Is reinvesting a good idea? Or would it be better elsewhere?

Complete novice, inherited some.  Have a week or so to decide!

Thanks,
Matt


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## Judd

*Re: Man Investments - OM-IP 220 Series 7 Re-investment offer*



mattycat said:


> does anyone here have thoughts / advice on the Man Series 7 fund which is about to mature and being offered for reinvestment?
> 
> Is reinvesting a good idea? Or would it be better elsewhere?
> 
> Complete novice, inherited some.  Have a week or so to decide!
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt




Matt, only you can decide.  It's your money (now) and you have to take responsibility for both it and your decision.  Nobody can give advice which is appropriate to you and your circumstances.  They would be rather silly if they did.


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## onthesword

*Re: Man Investments - OM-IP 220 Series 7 Re-investment offer*



mattycat said:


> does anyone here have thoughts / advice on the Man Series 7 fund which is about to mature and being offered for reinvestment?
> 
> Is reinvesting a good idea? Or would it be better elsewhere?
> 
> Complete novice, inherited some.  Have a week or so to decide!
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt




you'd want to check that the capital g'tee still exists on money reinvested once the fund has matured


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## mattycat

*Re: Man Investments - OM-IP 220 Series 7 Re-investment offer*



onthesword said:


> you'd want to check that the capital g'tee still exists on money reinvested once the fund has matured




Now that's a sensible answer!  (The other one just seemed a bit obvious and silly!)

Yes it appears there is a new capital guarantee on the re-investment, however not knowing a lot about the company and getting no feedback from experienced ones here or elsewhere I decided to hedge my bets and reinvest only part, while moving the rest elsewhere. Gives me a chance to keep an eye on how they are going. Past performance seems reasonable, but plenty of fish in the sea so to speak!

Thanks for feeback


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## gabrielle13

I threw a bit of money into the Man Series 8 OM-IP 220 ten years ago for my kids.  Maturity date is at the end of June. Each $1.00 share is now worth $1.79. Now I have to decide whether to continue with these investments or redeem the shares.

Any thoughts??


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## adpd

Be warned with Hedge funds that aren’t transparent.
Man investments offered Man OM-IP 2Eclipse way back in 2007.
With CBA hand in glove offering a capital guaranteed loan at 8.4% interest.
Over 8 years the returns are dismal.  $1 is now worth $1.29
That’s at 3.3% return. I could have been better off in a bank account.
International share markets roared to 40% returns in 2014.  Now wasn’t that a trend to benefit from but my Man Investment some how didn’t find that trend.
Do I sound bitter, of course I do as Fund managers are in it to make money for themselves, paying advisors who support their products massive commissions, why else is there nothing else left for the investor.
Why would a fund manager say yes to a bank offering a 8.4% loan to its investors if they knew they couldn’t provide at least 8.4% return over 8 years. Why I ask? Well I doubt it ever crossed their mind.  As long as the bank made money on the loan.
Next, they changed the strategy.  But that too didn’t work.  Laughable.
Then they have the cheek to write to me to say deposit the funds into another investment on maturity.  A fund that comparatively had better returns.  Well if that fund had better returns why didn’t you change the strategy to that fund?  Really after 8 years of being burnt, would I want to invest with you.  
Until calling up in 2010, I wasn’t even receiving written yearly updates.  It was going to CBA who held the investment as collateral.  Diabolical.
Unit prices aren’t issued until 25 days after the month end.  Talk about transparency.  In today’s world why am I waiting for 25 days.  Let my cynicism shine through here.  5 days to come up with the figure and 20 days to cook the books.  Or perhaps, they were busy wining and dining advisors who support their products enticed by huge commissions.  Why else is there less for the investor if it is all paid to advisors.
So finally the invest ends 31/07/2015. Hip hip horary.  But I’ll have to wait 6 weeks before a cheque is posted out.  Diabolical.
After a few years, why weren’t investors said, guys there is no trend in the market, we can’t see you recouping the 8.4% interest you are paying on your loan. Lets wind up the fund and we’ll take the hit.  Thats what ethical managers do.  Mangers who still have funds to pay out.  Ooops but in this instance, the funds were already spent.  Spent on huge commissions to drive FUM so they could charge MER for proprietary systems with strong track records of making money regardless if the market were going up or down.  I thought with that statement I could ignore the asterisk that said as long as there is a trend.  International markets have trend up.  Strong trends with most international managers returning 40% in 2014 calendar year.  But I guess their systems couldn’t see that trend.
As my rant comes to an end.  Be warned.  Don’t borrow to invest,   make sure you see the track record from 07-15.  If they couldn’t make money then, they certainly can’t guarantee record regardless of track records that stem from 20 years ago when it was a totally different market.
Don’t look at long term but instead look at their worst time returns.
Ask them what advisors are getting.  What commissions/fees are being paid and to whom.
What dollar amount is left to Invest.
Or best, stay away cause they are just rubbish with not one iota of accountability.


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