# SMS - SIMS Group



## GreatPig (24 June 2005)

Received this announcement notice today:



> Sims Group Limited and Hugo Neu Corporation announced today that they have agreed to merge Sims Group Limited with the metal recycling operations of Hugo Neu Corporation, forming Sims Newco.
> 
> Please click on the below link to view the full announcement:
> 
> http://www.sims-group.com



Cheers,
GP


Disclaimer: I hold.


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## ghotib (24 June 2005)

And I understand SIMs price dropped from its already fairly low level. Do you have a view about the merger yourself? I've had my eye on SIMs, but keep not having cash when the price is where I'm willing to buy. Strikes me as a well-managed company with a level-headed view of its place in the world.

Ghoti


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## GreatPig (24 June 2005)

Ghoti,

I don't really look at the fundamentals at all. I bought it after it had dropped quite a lot back to my longer-term trend line and seemed to be at least pausing there.

It's a little volatile right now, but I've bought this one in my investment portfolio, so want to give it a bit of room to move. Currently it's a little bit down on what I paid, but still well within my bounds.

A work colleague who also has a portfolio, and goes from fundamentals, mentioned the other week that it had some broker buy recommendations, for whatever that's worth .

Cheers,
GP


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## ghotib (24 June 2005)

GreatPig said:
			
		

> Ghoti,
> 
> I don't really look at the fundamentals at all. I bought it after it had dropped quite a lot back to my longer-term trend line and seemed to be at least pausing there.
> 
> It's a little volatile right now, but I've bought this one in my investment portfolio, so want to give it a bit of room to move. Currently it's a little bit down on what I paid, but still well within my bounds.



At the risk of going off topic, how do you differentiate between your investment and trading portfolios if you don't consider fundamentals?



> A work colleague who also has a portfolio, and goes from fundamentals, mentioned the other week that it had some broker buy recommendations, for whatever that's worth .
> 
> Cheers,
> GP



Yikes!!!  Run away!!! Run away!!!

Ghoti


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## GreatPig (25 June 2005)

ghotib said:
			
		

> how do you differentiate between your investment and trading portfolios if you don't consider fundamentals?



For the investment portfolio I look for more likely longer-term holds, mainly using trend lines to decide that and when to enter. I also look for fairly low volatility.

For the trading portfolio I look for shorter-term trades, preferably ones that are more volatile with the hope that they'll rise quicker. I'm working on a mechanical system for that, but have also been doing some using manual inspection of charts and a few indicators.

Cheers,
GP


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## ghotib (25 June 2005)

So investment = long term trade, but still technical? With somewhat fuzzy lines between short, medium and long term? Makes sense, but is it what you mean?

Thanks,

Ghoti


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## rozella (25 June 2005)

Part of yesterdays announcement.



> The Sims Group Board intends to declare a FY2005 final dividend of $0.70 per share. In addition, as part of the Hugo Neu merger transaction terms, the Sims Group Board intends to declare a special dividend, which together with the ordinary dividend will equal 100% of net profit of Sims Group for the 6 months to 30 June 2005. The special dividend is expected to be approximately $0.20 per share. Both dividends will be franked to the extent possible, with further details to be provided when the FY2005 results are announced.




rozella


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## GreatPig (25 June 2005)

ghotib said:
			
		

> So investment = long term trade



I think of share investment as being with the intention of passive income and growth over the longer term, as opposed to buying and selling to make a profit. The ideal investment would be buy now and never sell until one day when I want the money for something else, in the meantime earning income (a bit like good real estate). In that scenario, shorter-term fluctuations in price wouldn't matter, as long as over the longer term the price increased at a reasonable average rate.




> but still technical?



Minimal technical. Mainly just major trend lines, firstly to give me the best entry point into an established up-trend (as close to the trend line as possible), and secondly to watch for a major break in the up-trend. While even a large price drop shouldn't matter for a very long term hold, as long as it eventually goes back up, since the latter is never guaranteed, I think I'd sooner sell if the price seriously started to fall and perhaps buy back in again later once it looked like it was back on a new up-trend.




> With somewhat fuzzy lines between short, medium and long term?



I don't think the actual time is the relevant point, but rather the intention. To me, an investment purchase is intended to be for as long as I don't need the money for something else. However, since even the best shares can fall and stay fallen, or start under-performing (eg. reduced dividends or low average growth), then it makes sense not to hold during a large fall, or to move the money to something better-performing in the latter case.

Trading, on the other hand, is just buying and selling over whatever time frame to make gains. The intention on purchase is to sell for profit. Again, the actual time a stock is held is irrelevant.

Cheers,
GP


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## GreatPig (27 June 2005)

Currently up 6%, so it must be seen as a good thing 

GP


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## TjamesX (27 June 2005)

I think its has just been upgraded from HOLD to BUY by some brokers - at least thats what HSBC research indicated.

So I guess that means if you've BOUGHT - HOLD   

TJ


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## GreatPig (29 September 2005)

Well it's now pushing against its previous high of around $19 back in March, in what is effectively an upward-sloping triangle.

I'm still holding this in my investment portfolio, but will be watching closely to see what happens. My longer-term trend line is right down around $15, and the previous high returned to this trend line. If it doesn't push through and looks like dropping back, I think I'll be getting out fairly quickly.

Cheers,
GP


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## Julia (29 September 2005)

GP

I understand that you work on a purely technical basis but when making a decision like this would you not take into consideration at all the many analysts who are still predicting high demand for steel which has a run-on effect to metal recycling?  I'm not suggesting you should consider this, but am just interested in your total approach to selling a stock.

Regards
Julia


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## GreatPig (29 September 2005)

Julia said:
			
		

> when making a decision like this would you not take into consideration at all the many analysts who are still predicting high demand for steel which has a run-on effect to metal recycling?



No, not really.

Being an investment stock rather than a trading stock does mean I'll give it a bit more lee-way to move, and does create something of a dilemma regarding the 50% CGT discount if I can hold it for 12 months.

However, if it looks like it's really on the slide, I don't see the point of holding it all the way back to $15 or so. I'd sooner sell before that and pick it up again when it starts to go back up.

Which is often easier said than done. Stocks have a nasty habit of shooting back up the moment I've sold them 

Cheers,
GP


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## GreatPig (1 June 2006)

*Re: SGM - SIMS Group*

A head & shoulders looking close to completion here.

Downside target around the lower trend line.

Cheers,
GP


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## RichKid (1 June 2006)

*Re: SGM - SIMS Group*



			
				GreatPig said:
			
		

> A head & shoulders looking close to completion here.
> 
> Downside target around the lower trend line.
> 
> ...




Looks like a great short sell set up GP- old resistance level, recent highs, blow off, classic H&S (with expected volume drop), end of current EW structure, far from trendline support. Only question is short on break of neckline or retest of neckline after break?


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## GreatPig (8 June 2006)

Blast off.

GP


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## emma (7 July 2006)

Mmmn - looks like a re-test of resistance - any thoughts?


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## chebyrator (13 September 2007)

SGM have done good in the past few days damn it!  I was thinking of buying their shares for the past week but didnt and they went up in price around 10% now


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## Judd (13 September 2007)

Odd company.  We bought ages ago around the mid $4 mark with a few top ups since then when it was known as SimsMetal.  Dividends have more than covered the initial capital.  Yet a lot of those analysis fellas have never really taken a shine to the company for whatever reason.  Still it seems to spin off profits though.


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## Sultan of Swing (26 September 2007)

There's a more recent thread on Sims here started after they changed their code to SMG.

Cheers

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4433


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## michael_selway (26 September 2007)

Sultan of Swing said:


> There's a more recent thread on Sims here started after they changed their code to SMG.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4433




Hm thsi stocks is worth about 20 dollars it appears imo unless there's M & A etc

*Earnings and Dividends Forecast (cents per share) 
2007 2008 2009 2010 
EPS 202.5 208.3 197.4 201.4 
DPS 120.0 133.0 135.0 133.0* 

thx

MS


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