# One system for all markets



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 January 2007)

Is there a system that fits all markets? Is it possible?
Discussion only thanks.


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## Bobby (2 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Is there a system that fits all markets? Is it possible?
> Discussion only thanks.



SNAKE one of the things I like about you is your always seeking !   

No there is not a system that will fit every market .

Have fun
Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (2 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> SNAKE one of the things I like about you is your always seeking !
> 
> No there is not a system that will fit every market .
> 
> ...




Bobby,

Thanks for your diligent thread response. 

Can you justify your answer?


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## Bobby (2 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Bobby,
> 
> Thanks for your diligent thread response.
> 
> Can you justify your answer?




Yep. In all the years I've played this game nobody has come out public with the answer yet.
But you never know   

cheers 
Bob.


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## doctorj (2 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yep. In all the years I've played this game nobody has come out public with the answer yet.



Soon after someone went public with it, the system's days would be numbered.  There's no incentive for someone to come clean, they'd be much better off quietly making a profit.

Part of me would like to think there exists some mathematical harmony to the chaos that over rides all markets.  Perhaps there is, but whether or not it is profitable is another thing.


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## nizar (2 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Is there a system that fits all markets? Is it possible?
> Discussion only thanks.




(The answer to the thread title is) impossible, it doesnt exist.

Must have a systems for uptrends that trades (at least predominantly) longs, and another for downtrends that trades (at least predominantly) shorts.

Or you can choose to sit out periods where your system will not work.

The profitable of each sort of system, ie. the uptrend system, or the downtrend system, will be significantly reduced in sideways markets.

Just my opinion..


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## chandra (2 January 2007)

Hi Snake,

In my opinion no doubt, there is a system that can trade multiple markets - because as it is well known Tech Analysis - in its true form - is about developing technical trading rules from observations of past price movements which, when combined with intuition, knowledge and skill, allow a trader to forecast future movements. Thus, If a trader, or group of traders, created such a system - they would not release it to the market - or if they did, they would want to charge an incredible amount for it.

As the system becomes more popular, the stock market reacts to it, and in theory, more and more traders are capitalizing on its signals. Ultimately, with so many doing the same "moves", the market adjusts and its now useless. This is why if you did have the "goose that laid the golden egg system" - you would never tell anybody - and just use it until you had 1000 ferrari's or the mafia breaks your thumbs 

A new site called "gstock.com" claims to have a system to beat the market - 
"www.GStock.com is "a virtual supercomputer" for stock market analysis. It runs on a grid computing model and claims to test over one billion investment strategies per stock. Then it emails you BUY/ SELL (B/S) alerts for major US-traded stocks in your portfolio. They also claim that 70% of trades based on their BUY/SELL alerts make profits. Navigation, though, is extremely sparse. Enter a stock ticker symbol in the search field to get a chart with B/S indicators. Then apply common sense as to whether you should take the action offered, based on your price for that stock."

In my opinion after using it, its a load of crap - but give it a go.

Cheers,

C.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (2 January 2007)

doctorj said:
			
		

> Part of me would like to think there exists some mathematical harmony to the chaos that over rides all markets.  Perhaps there is, but whether or not it is profitable is another thing.




Interesting.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (2 January 2007)

nizar said:
			
		

> (The answer to the thread title is) impossible, it doesnt exist.
> 
> Must have a systems for uptrends that trades (at least predominantly) longs, and another for downtrends that trades (at least predominantly) shorts.
> 
> ...




Nizar,

Why doesn't it exist? If you have some reasoning for such a comment please elucidate the elements that we could possibly discuss.

I am aware that cycles may make a market untradable for systems at times, but I was talking about markets being markets not what cycles they are in.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (2 January 2007)

chandra said:
			
		

> Hi Snake,
> 
> In my opinion no doubt, there is a system that can trade multiple markets - because as it is well known Tech Analysis - in its true form - is about developing technical trading rules from observations of past price movements which, when combined with intuition, knowledge and skill, allow a trader to forecast future movements. Thus, If a trader, or group of traders, created such a system - they would not release it to the market - or if they did, they would want to charge an incredible amount for it.
> 
> ...




Chandra,

I am not interested in a black box system thanks. 


*I am not interested in any systems thanks* people. Just discussion on the theoretical elements.


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## doctorj (2 January 2007)

nizar said:
			
		

> (The answer to the thread title is) impossible, it doesnt exist.
> 
> Must have a systems for uptrends that trades (at least predominantly) longs, and another for downtrends that trades (at least predominantly) shorts



I disagree. 

A system is a set of rules, it doesn't have to be a long or a short system, it could potentially be both.

I was reading a paper today on whether or not there was any statistical support for the flow, size and type (market/limit) of orders being a leading indicator for the market.  It turned out there was a statistically significant correlation in both of the markets examined - the French bourse and the FX market.

Again, this may or may not have been tradable, but it does go to show there are similarities between the markets.  Maybe there is potential there.

As an aside, I want to look at the potential of applying this theory to the ASX.  Any suggestions where I can find tick data that also shows whether or not it was a market or limit order?


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## Bobby (2 January 2007)

doctorj said:
			
		

> Soon after someone went public with it, the system's days would be numbered.  There's no incentive for someone to come clean, they'd be much better off quietly making a profit.



Spot on Doc!

I grind a living out of trading, its been a roller-coaster of stuff ups & good plays.

But if you survive folks ~ you get better at it!

Cheers Bob.


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## swingstar (3 January 2007)

EW (for one) can be applied to any heavily traded market.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

swingstar said:
			
		

> EW (for one) can be applied to any heavily traded market.




Is EW a system or analysis?


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## Bobby (3 January 2007)

swingstar said:
			
		

> EW (for one) can be applied to any heavily traded market.



Swing your a clever young bloke, I've been impressed by some of your past posts, let me warn you " EW may let you down at the worst possable time.

Bob.


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## happytrader (3 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Is there a system that fits all markets? Is it possible?
> Discussion only thanks.




Hi Snake

I think its primarily a mindset thing. Recognising and dispensing with that pervasive, 'getting away with it' attitude (which in itself becomes the game)would be a good start. 

Cheers
Happytrader


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## Bobby (3 January 2007)

happytrader said:
			
		

> Hi Snake
> 
> I think its primarily a mindset thing. Recognising and dispensing with that pervasive, 'getting away with it' attitude (which in itself becomes the game)would be a good start.
> 
> ...



Happytrader yes its pertinent !

Bob.


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## tech/a (3 January 2007)

*Of course there is.*

Its the consistent application of buying at a price which is either.

(1) Consistently lower than your sell price.

OR

(2) When sold is consistently higher in aggregate point gain than the aggregate point loss of your trading.

OR

(3) Both (1) and (2).


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## stink (3 January 2007)

Hi Snake,

  i think Tech is most correct here. In my opinion there cannot be a system that meets all requirements because we are individuals and we want to make our own decisions.

If the underlying method to any system is buy low and sell high, cant this work anywhere on any market? as long as its profitable right? Well as many posts about strategies and the like on this forum have stated its not about how many loses you have its about keeping your losses small so you stay in the game, when your winning let it run.

This strategy in theory would work in any market as long as you have got the balls and the $ to back it up.

Systems are what? poeples opinions on what they think will work, or what they have tested will work. But whats the underlying principle to every system? It has to be buy low sell high right? who cares what indicators you use.


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## onemore (3 January 2007)

If one was to have and trade a successful *momentum*  system in one market, whether it be long, short or both it doesn't matter,why would it not be applicable to all markets?

All markets have momentum at some time and you are only trading momentum.

Anyway just a question.

..........onemore


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## swingstar (3 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Is EW a system or analysis?




What's the definition of a system first? 



			
				Bobby said:
			
		

> Swing your a clever young bloke, I've been impressed by some of your past posts, let me warn you " EW may let you down at the worst possable time.




Thanks Bobby, same to you. EW is just one tool I use, and I find it useful for giving me rules to trade by (like a mechanical system--at least for form).


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

swingstar said:
			
		

> Thanks Bobby, same to you. EW is just one tool  I use, and I find it useful for giving me rules to trade by (like a mechanical system--at least for form).




So it is a tool. Thanks.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

tech/a said:
			
		

> *Of course there is.*
> 
> Its the consistent application of buying at a price which is either.
> 
> ...




Tech/A,

You are back! Thanks for your answer.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

happytrader said:
			
		

> Hi Snake
> 
> I think its primarily a mindset thing. Recognising and dispensing with that pervasive, 'getting away with it' attitude (which in itself becomes the game)would be a good start.
> 
> ...




happytrader,

You always come out with the pertinent stuff in your comments. It is a pleasure reading what you say.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Swing your a clever young bloke, I've been impressed by some of your past posts, let me warn you " EW may let you down at the worst possable time.
> 
> Bob.




Hey Bobby,

Have you tried an EW strategy before? If you have why did it let you down? I am curious why it works for some but not for others. Perhaps Happytrader has the answer with his psychology bent lending some insight.

Snake


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## swingstar (3 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> So it is a tool. Thanks.




Is it not a system in itself? It gives you rules and guidelines to follow. As market activity unfolds, you enter or exit given those rules and guidelines. Because I use it in conjunction with other 'tools', doesn't make it any less of a system. Again it would help if you could define what you mean by a system.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

stink said:
			
		

> Hi Snake,
> If the underlying method to any system is buy low and sell high, cant this work anywhere on any market? as long as its profitable right?




Stink,
I thought the same. Though the liquidity and volatility would be factors of concern. 
Snake


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## It's Snake Pliskin (3 January 2007)

swingstar said:
			
		

> Is it not a system in itself? It gives you rules and guidelines to follow. As market activity unfolds, you enter or exit given those rules and guidelines. Because I use it in conjunction with other 'tools', doesn't make it any less of a system. Again it would help if you could define what you mean by a system.




I am not defining a system here, I was hoping we could all do it together. Stink came up with:


> Systems are what? peoples opinions on what they think will work, or what they have tested will work.




So you two seem to be thinking along similar lines. As far as EW goes you are far more advanced than me on that "tool, strategy"..

Snake


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## yogi-in-oz (3 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> I am aware that cycles may make a market untradable for systems at times, but I was talking about markets being markets not what cycles they are in.






Hi Snake,

If some cycles make a market untradable at times, 
then the reverse is also true ..... some cycles make
a market tradable, at other times .... 

..... that being so, then ALL markets can be evaluated
and TRADED, using a system based on cycles.

For some, their cycles may be based on price movements.

One example being swing trading, around a previously
-identified pivot level, but this approach only uses HALF 
of the data available, in the chart of ANY market.

Other traders may add evaluation of the TIME axis on the
chart as well, giving us another dimension to consider.

Both PRICE and TIME data is available for ALL markets,
therefore a simple system combining BOTH axes should
serve us well, when trading most markets.

Gann's work is based on the premise, that ALL markets
have their own individual, cyclical "vibration" ..... if we
can identify the critical triggers in ANY market, then 
we will have more than a fair chance of making a profit.

Price-based cycles most commonly have a pivot level 
of long-term support and resistance, as a key trigger
for market entries/exits ... for example, AZZ = 73 cents.

Time cycles may be fixed by nature and are easily 
identified, giving us some specific dates to watch for
fundamental triggers, like company news (or lack of)

For example, TDR has spiked up over 23% today, with
good volume on no apparent news ..... we have already 
identified TDR as a stock to watch closely for news and 
a rally next week, so this movement with no news must
be insiders getting set, ahead of an announcement.
(More in TDR thread.)

It matters not, HOW we identify individual market cycles,
but if we combine our analysis of BOTH PRICE and TIME
axes, then we have the basis of a SIMPLE, forward-looking 
system,  that we can use to plan our anticipated entries 
and exits, for ANY market.

happy days

  yogi

 

=====


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## Bobby (3 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Hey Bobby,
> 
> Have you tried an EW strategy before? If you have why did it let you down? I am curious why it works for some but not for others. Perhaps Happytrader has the answer with his psychology bent lending some insight.
> 
> Snake



Greetings Snake,

EW buggered up my mind-set regarding mental stops ~~ Ouch !  

Remmember this story :
11th of Sept 2004 the SPI neared 3866, a certain hedge fund called the major wave top at 3866 having shorted 4500 contracts.
Then the bulls had some fun, the best exit offered was 3920 .
They spent the next 2 weeks getting out at a significant loss.

Then again as you said it seems to work for some !

Cheers Bob.


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## Smurf1976 (3 January 2007)

Isn't one of the key rules for testing a system that it should work in different markets and times?

For example, you wouldn't develop a stock trading system and only test it using one stock for the past 12 months.


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## doctorj (3 January 2007)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> For example, you wouldn't develop a stock trading system and only test it using one stock for the past 12 months.



Depends on the system and the time frame.  Why make a system any more generic than you have to.  If your trading short time frame, 12 months of data is more than enough.

For example, I know several people that design and trade systems specific to different index futures.  If they're only scalping, I imagine you could be reasonably confident testing 12 months data.


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## Mofra (3 January 2007)

Just to clarify - are you including different leveraged instruments as well when you talk about different markets? An equity trader may have the golden strategy but perculiarities to the intruments themselves may render the system ineffective on ETO or futures markets.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 January 2007)

yogi-in-oz said:
			
		

> Hi Snake,
> 
> If some cycles make a market untradable at times,
> then the reverse is also true ..... some cycles make
> ...




Thankyou Yogi for your response in your unique style. Your last paragraph which I coloured in in Purple says a lot.

Snake


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Greetings Snake,
> 
> EW buggered up my mind-set regarding mental stops ~~ Ouch !
> 
> ...




Understood Bobby.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 January 2007)

Mofra said:
			
		

> Just to clarify - are you including different leveraged instruments as well when you talk about different markets? An equity trader may have the golden strategy but perculiarities to the intruments themselves may render the system ineffective on ETO or futures markets.




Yes. All markets and instruments that provide price or charts to read.


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## Bobby (5 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Thankyou Yogi for your response in your unique style. Your last paragraph which I coloured in in Purple says a lot.
> 
> Snake



Yes Snake, Yogi is a bit odd, check this out from the Sydney Morning Herald back on the 8th Jan 2005 !

On Wed 5th Jan 2005  - About day trading, a American professor of charting said :

The magnitudes & decay pattern of the first 12 auto-correlations & the statistical significance of the box -auto-correlations & the statistical significance of the Box-Pierce Q-Statistic suggest the presence of a high-frequency predictable component in stock returns .

Means the past is a guide to the future   


Someone called Yogi then said :
Contary to every warning that appears on every share price or unit trust recommendation I back-tested the professor's study on 750 stocksover the past 50 years.
This is the result ~

Now if this is ASF Yogi, he will be able to fill in the test results.

Have Fun
Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yes Snake, Yogi is a bit odd, check this out from the Sydney Morning Herald back on the 8th Jan 2005 !
> 
> On Wed 5th Jan 2005  - About day trading, a American professor of charting said :
> 
> ...





Bob,

Do you have access to the article online?


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## Bobby (5 January 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Bob,
> 
> Do you have access to the article online?



Yep,

I'll PM you it.

Hope your having fun.

Bob


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yep,
> 
> I'll PM you it.
> 
> ...




Bob,

I got your PM and will check it out.
You must be tired because I am with a two hour time difference.
Snake


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## yogi-in-oz (5 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yes Snake, Yogi is a bit odd, check this out from the Sydney Morning Herald back on the 8th Jan 2005 !
> 
> On Wed 5th Jan 2005  - About day trading, a American professor of charting said :
> 
> ...







Hi Bobby,

..... yes, we have heard of this imposter previously ..... 

A bit odd THIS yogi may be, but he says, 

" EVERYTHING that needs to be said about trading,
can be done so, in plain and simple English, without
ANY such scientific gobbledegook !~!"

have a great day

   yogi



=====


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## theasxgorilla (5 January 2007)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Greetings Snake,
> 
> EW buggered up my mind-set regarding mental stops ~~ Ouch !
> 
> ...




This is actually my biggest criticism of Elliott Wave.  It's alway calling for market tops  and bottoms.  As the saying goes, markets can stay irrational longer than you can keep counting Elliott Waves.


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## >Apocalypto< (2 February 2007)

I am sure there is Snake but jeez i dont have the time to try to find it!


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## tech/a (2 February 2007)

theasxgorilla said:
			
		

> This is actually my biggest criticism of Elliott Wave.  It's alway calling for market tops  and bottoms.  As the saying goes, markets can stay irrational longer than you can keep counting Elliott Waves.




No "G" thats not so.

Elliot is clearly defined. However I understand that one could see that this is the case from a cursory glance. Elliot looks very involved but in fact it is relatively simple. there are a number of ways to forward project both time and price fron information found in price. This frustrates the un initiated who look for a CONCRETE point. Confluence of these points give higher probability.

If a point is surpassed---which is a more common occurence than not being reached.Then a further point is calculated as price PROVES that there is more movement.

Elliot continually PROVES or DISPROVES what is seen in price action.
When a price and or time point is reached then its time to watch very carefully.

Expert exponents of the methodology can return well above the average win rate on trades. *Radge currently has a 68% win rate on his Elliot Wave model portfolio.---pretty good in my book.*

I'm no expert in Elliot but have a grasp. I'm no longer posting my analysis on the main board as I'm sick of the FLACK.

But I sent this chart to CONSTABLE on the 28/1/07 and on Radges Private board on the same day. Its PNN check price today. Of all the analysis out there this is one of the few worth the 2 or so years to learn!! (Personal opinion of course).


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## constable (2 February 2007)

Ive got to agree with tech, almost uncanny the predictability on this chart using ew Sp today $1.82. And a little green with envy you could pick a peak like that!!


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## tech/a (2 February 2007)

> And a little green with envy you could pick a peak like that!!




Had nothing to do with it.
Just implementation of the analysis.
In THIS case it PROVED that the analysis had the correct top.
Had it passed the forcasts then there would have been further 
projections made from the rules of the analysis.

Confluence of points however proved to be accurate.
Its a WEEKLY chart


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## Nick Radge (2 February 2007)

EW does have a bad name, as theASXgorilla rightly points out, from a few knuckleheads who try to big note themselves with the large calls. The more calls you make, the chance of getting one right will occur I guess. However, that's not how it is in reality. Those that look to make the big calls are rarely traders, they're analysts and therein lies a large difference.  EW is a great took when used correctly and when understood. It really is no different to any other technical analysis type. Its based on patterns and their probabilities.

Below in my signature is a link to a free 2-hour webinar. If you're interested in how to apply EW correctly, then take the time.

Nick


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## yogi-in-oz (2 February 2007)

theasxgorilla said:
			
		

> This is actually my biggest criticism of Elliott Wave.  It's alway calling for market tops  and bottoms.  As the saying goes, markets can stay irrational longer than you can keep counting Elliott Waves.






Hi g'rilla, 

..... you are quite correct, the EWavers are always in a state
of utter confusion, because NONE of them can agree where
to START the wave count, leave alone what wave they are in !~! 

Aside from that, even Prechter hisself admitted to other
flaws in EW, as well as dissent, between the wave-counters.

Flaws, like talk about confluences around a certain price 
level and a conjoining time ... but the fact is, they will
never know about that confluence, until AFTER the event 
... so, such analysis is a LAGGING indicator, as it  is always 
looking BACKWARDS.

Others try to apply the Fibo ratios .618, 1.23, 1.618, 3.23,
and all their multiples and variants to the time axis, as well 
as the price action ... again, with limited success.

Sure, they will jag a winning combination, here and there,
but applying any fixed ratio to a dynamic entity, like the 
market prices does not make a lot of sense ... but, applying 
fixed ratios or cycles to the time axis does make MORE 
SENSE, as TIME IS CONSTANT and therefore, somewhat 
easier to analyze ..... !~!

-----

Using PNN as an example, let's see how far forward the
EWavers can accurately project turns on the time axis, 
using ANY of their fixed ratios ... we'll give you a tip now,
it just will not happen !~!

... meanwhile, here's a more dynamic look, at the same 
stock and time axis,  using some typical astroanalysis, 
by Gann.

PNN time cycles... :

February 2007.

        06022007 ... positive news expected here.

        22022007 ... minor and intraday rally?

   23-26022007 ... minor and positive

---

March 2007.

        05032007 ... significant and negative

        22032007 ... significant and positive news ... 

   23-26022007 ... positive news expected.

        27032007 ... minor

-----

April 2007.

   13-16042007 ... 2 minor and positive cycles here

        17042007 ... minor

        26042007 ... positive spotlight on PNN ... 

        30042007 ... positive news expected here

-----

May 2007.

   11-14052007 ... 2 minor and positive cycles here

        23052007 ... minor

   25-28052007 ... minor

-----

June 2007.

   01-04062007 ... minor and positive news

   11-12062007 ... significant and negati                             ve ... finances???

   27-28062007 ... minor, positive light on PNN

        30062007 ... minor and positive news

-----

July 2007.

   02-03072007 ... good news, but flat trading here ???

happy days

   yogi


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## tech/a (2 February 2007)

Not interested in looking forward 12 mths.

Only when I'm in a trade or looking to possibly enter.
But will be good to look back on Yogi.
Youll jag a few yourself.

At the points you mention what will happen to price.
 EG Minor negative news does that mean Flat or a small drop or what?
And vica versa.


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## Porper (2 February 2007)

yogi-in-oz said:
			
		

> Hi g'rilla,
> 
> ..... you are quite correct, the EWavers are always in a state
> of utter confusion, because NONE of them can agree where
> to START the wave count, leave alone what wave they are in !~!




I wouldn't say E.Wavers are in a state of confusion, true, we can have differing opinions on counts, but does it really matter ?

At the end of the day whether we use the stars or Elliot wave it is merely a personal preference.What it does do is give us a clear insight into the future as to where to tighten stops or look at possible reversal points.This in itself can make us more profitable by giving definitive points where we can say we are wrong with the analysis and therefore will always exit, never being tempted to move stops.

I don't think Elliot Wave is any more successful than any other method personally although I am still a beginner, but I have to say also Yogi that your predictions using astroanalysis is no more successful.

Whatever method we use, if we believe in it we have less chance of being indecisive and skipping from one method to the other.


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## yogi-in-oz (2 February 2007)

tech/a said:
			
		

> Not interested in looking forward 12 mths.
> 
> Only when I'm in a trade or looking to possibly enter.
> But will be good to look back on Yogi.
> ...






Ah ... exactly as expected, no forecast and NOT because
they are not interested, otherwise why do they use
EW at all, if it is not an attempt to forecast those 
price/time confluences???

Like all other TA tools, astro time cycles are not meant to 
be used in isolation ... but, used to complement our
regular TA, we can usually make a judgement on 
PRICE, as it approaches our TIME targets .....

..... knowing WHEN to trade and trading in the right 
direction, is more important, than price or even what 
we trade ...!~!

-----

There was no "minor negative news" mentioned in 
the PNN analysis, but for most people a negative
market would mean a fall, a positive market a rise,
flat means little price movement, etc, etc .....

..... minor, major, significant, insignificant are all
simply degrees of market sentiment in the price 
action/reaction to news or the natural time cycles.

Aside from price, quantifying and describing expected 
market sentiment is not so easy, which is why, it makes
more sense to evaluate BOTH chart axes.

yogi


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## theasxgorilla (2 February 2007)

tech/a said:
			
		

> No "G" thats not so.
> 
> Elliot is clearly defined. However I understand that one could see that this is the case from a cursory glance. Elliot looks very involved but in fact it is relatively simple. there are a number of ways to forward project both time and price fron information found in price. This frustrates the un initiated who look for a CONCRETE point. Confluence of these points give higher probability.
> 
> ...




I didn't intend my comment to come across as "FLACK", and whether it conveyed in print I was only half serious.  Thats why I re-appropriated the, "markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent" quote...it was a flippant remark.

I've read LOTS of Elliott Wave.  I have used it and made some brilliant trades with it.  Consider the wave count on Western Mining Company pre-Xstrata/BHP takeover, a wave 3-of-3, CFD, long, next-day annoucement, whammo!  I cleaned up that day.

As an ex-subscribed to Bob Prechters EWI newsletters I quite frankly got fed up with the non-stop calls for market tops and the re-counting of waves into some extreme variation of what should more often than not be simple 5-3 wave counts.  My key criticisms are largely directed at EWI and their attempts at MACRO wave counts the try to map the big picture going all the way back to the Dutch tulip bubble  .

Take the DJIA for example...Pretcher has called for it to be at some ridiculously low level like 400 or something, right?  Well, yes, his wave count is now invalidated by the fact that the DJIA is at new all-time-highs (I'm sure that they're using the "stable currency benchmark" to explain this, but beyond the scope of this post, you get the point).  The problem is that he will sit out of equities for two decades because he was _hurrying up_ to wait to "conquer the crash".

I haven't used more than the basic 5-3 stuff for a couple of years now, so I'm rusty on a lot of the detail beyond that right now.  The fact that I see you guys using it has re-kindled my interest, so I'm pleased to be seeing other peoples analysis.  Besides, if I can leverage off your wave counts I can be lazy and don't need to do my own


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## tech/a (3 February 2007)

Yogi.

OK.Agree re both axis and also agree using other analysis in conjunction.

So Minor or significant would mean simply that in price movement around that time. 

So If I were trading PNN (For example as youve posted many time points).
What would my position be during that time Now till July.

Am I nett Long?

Would I be say taking individual trades at say a long position for
22/03/07 and 26/04/07.

While having all these dates lined up I'm just interested in how they can be used practically to trade.


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## yonnie (9 July 2007)

a system in all markets can be trend-following.

that is not to say that you will be in the markets all the time, only when there is a trend and the fundamentals are in agreement as well

another one is a break-out system, from the year`s high or according to a time table

wonder why nobody mentioned these systems sofar or is trend-following a dirty word


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