# Bernard Madoff - $50 Billion Scam



## BradK (13 December 2008)

$50 Billion... yes with a B. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/The-Worlds-Biggest-Ever-portfolioblog-13817029.html

*The World's Biggest Ever Heist*

I still can't quite get my head around the enormity of the numbers in the Madoff case. For one thing,

Madoff's investment advisory business served between 11 and 25 clients and had a total of about $17.1 billion in assets under management.

Now that's what I call high net worth individuals! And then you read the indictment, and you think you know what to expect, until:

On Dec. 10, 2008, Madoff informed the Senior Employees, in substance, that his investment advisory business was a fraud. Madoff stated that he was "finished," that he had "absolutely nothing," that "it's all just one big lie," and that it was "basically, a giant Ponzi scheme. Madoff stated that the business was insolvent, and that it had been for years. Madoff also stated that he estimated the losses from this fraud to be at least approximately $50 billion.

Yep, $50 billion. In other words, that $17.1 billion is only the beginning: presumably Madoff's clients had invested much more than that, and Madoff was sending statements to them, on the one hand, while reporting different numbers to the SEC, on the other -- none of which were true.

If the total losses are really $50 billion, that means that the average loss to Madoff's clients is a minimum of $2 billion, and perhaps as much as $4.5 billion. After all, in a Ponzi scheme, everybody comes out fine, except the last people out: the 11 to 25 clients still with Madoff to this day.

The one thing this does do is get me a little bit more comfortable with Jeffrey Epstein's business plan of managing billionaires' money. Clearly there are actually quite a lot of people with a few billion dollars to invest and who feel perfectly comfortable entrusting it to individuals like Madoff and Epstein. Who knew?

Right now, there are a handful people whose world has suddenly been turned upside-down: who have, overnight, suddenly lost billions of dollars of dynastic wealth to a Wall Street con man. I'm sure that their names will appear sooner or later. But there really is no precedent that I can think of: when has one man ever managed to steal $50 billion dollars? If the $100 million Harry Winston heist in Paris was the "steal of the century", what's this?.


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## BradK (13 December 2008)

A couple of talking heads discussing the issue - and other investors saying that they knew he was cheating and that is why they were investing with him - they thought it was insider trading rather than a Ponzi scheme

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticke...-I-Invested-with-Him?tickers=^dji,&gspc,^ixic


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## wayneL (13 December 2008)

So basically, the aeroplane game works just as well with 10 figure sums as it does with $50 notes.

I'm going to remember that for the next boom.


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## Aussiejeff (13 December 2008)

Phew! Of course, this is the only Mega Ponzi scheme that will be "outed" by the current World Financial Crisis. We can breathe easy now.

Oh, I see. So, there might be more crazy apes yet to be shaken out of the Funny Money Tree?

How many did you say??

THAT many???  



Late Edit: Who cares? US markets skyrocket on news GWB will fork out whatever it takes to help auto industry. News of Ponzi Scheme lost in the KrazyCar Bullrush! Ponzi cost Billions? Trillions? Who gives a stuff!


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## BradK (13 December 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> Who cares? US markets skyrocket on news GWB will fork out whatever it takes to help auto industry. News of Ponzi Scheme lost in the KrazyCar Bullrush! Ponzi cost Billions? Trillions? Who gives a stuff!




They are just numbers now, arent they? Million, Billion, Trillion... just print more. Roll up roll up for the great inflation ride of 2010!!! Last seen in Germany 1923! 

Brad


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## wayneL (13 December 2008)

BradK said:


> They are just numbers now, arent they? Million, Billion, Trillion... just print more. Roll up roll up for the great inflation ride of 2010!!! Last seen in Germany 1923!
> 
> Brad




Here's a very credible view that says the opposite - DEFLATION - and very well explained.

http://londonbanker.blogspot.com/2008/12/deflation-has-become-inevitable.html


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## BradK (13 December 2008)

Thanks Wayne. 

Inflation/ deflation - either way, we are screwed yes? 

Can you spell out for us what deflation might mean for the average Aussie battler like myself? Declining house prices, negative equity, almost no access to credit, unemployment??? 

Brad


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## Aussiejeff (13 December 2008)

wayneL said:


> Here's a very credible view that says the opposite - DEFLATION - and very well explained.
> 
> http://londonbanker.blogspot.com/2008/12/deflation-has-become-inevitable.html




I think what Brad means is that the ShockMarket is becoming numbed to the scale of the debts.

It seems like only yesterday that share markets would dive at the mention of major companies posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$1Million losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $1Million losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Then we had major companies posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$10Million losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $10Million losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Then we had major companies posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$100Million losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $100Million losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Then we had major companies posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$1Billion losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $1Billion losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Then we had major companies posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$10Billion losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $10Billion losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Then we had major companies/governments posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$100Billion losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $100Billion losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Then we had major companies/governments posting *SHOCK-HORROR* *$1Trillion losses*. The markets plunge. After a coupla days the markets rebound. Anything less than $1Trillion losses after that and the media & markets barely blink.

Hmmm. I see a trend. 

Next stop, $10Trillion will be the media & markets benchmark. Anything less and it will be SO boring & passe...

I can't wait to see a Quadrillion!!! Woohoo!

It's a bit like getting punch drunk. After a while, the pain is numbed and might even be enjoyable in a perverse way.

Merry Xmas :santa:

*hic!*


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## robots (13 December 2008)

hello,

lookout, 

a blooger i'm an expert, you safe bradK

thankyou
robots


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## Aussiejeff (13 December 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> lookout,
> 
> ...




hello,

robots,

i didn't know you were interested in scams.

thankyou
aussiebots


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## BradK (13 December 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> lookout,
> 
> ...




hello, 

huh? Huh? HUH? 

thankyou
brad


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## basilio (13 December 2008)

This is a big one.  Makes you wonder how the high-net-worth individuals are feeling who  until a few days ago thought they were still Masters of the Universe.

Also wonder how other high-net-worth people might be feeling about their investments. Could be some strategic re balancing of accounts in investment trusts etc. The facts are that with trillions of dollars lost in the past year there must be some serious pain that hasn't been brought to book.


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## robots (13 December 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> hello,
> 
> robots,
> 
> ...




hello,

what scam aussiejeff? the thread is about usual shonk market actions

thankyou
robots


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## GreatPig (13 December 2008)

BradK said:


> Roll up roll up for the great inflation ride of 2010!!! Last seen in Germany 1923!



Last seen in Zimbabwe this afternoon.

GP


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## GumbyLearner (13 December 2008)

Heres a site that details the clients and known associates of Madoff.

http://www.muckety.com/Bernard-L-Madoff-Investment-Securities/5020257.muckety

This is unprecendented. This guy was appointed to the board of the NASDAQ, huge bust!!! 

Interesting stuff.

Just double click on any names within the map and you will find associated relationships name lists.


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## Aussiejeff (13 December 2008)

GumbyLearner said:


> Heres a site that details the clients and known associates of Madoff.
> 
> http://www.muckety.com/Bernard-L-Madoff-Investment-Securities/5020257.muckety
> 
> ...




Dear GumbyLearner.

I did as you instructed but got a headache after 5 minutes. My screen was full of name tags and my computer bogged down.

Can you bail me out?



aj


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## GumbyLearner (13 December 2008)

Yeah its a bit like a recursive algorithm of fraud!


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## bankit (14 December 2008)

*Now what!*

Hi All,

Just another fly in the ointment. 

Looks like a $50 billion fraud in the states.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122914169719104017.html?mod=mktw

Bankit


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## numbercruncher (14 December 2008)

> Colleagues of Mr. Madoff said he was fair to those he dealt with and generous to charities including the Special Olympics. Mr. Madoff treated employees well and loved to take friends and colleagues on his 55-foot fishing boat, called Bull, said Frank Christensen, a retired New York Stock Exchange broker. "I really think very highly of him," said Mr. Christensen. "People make mistakes."







Put the criminal parasite in Prison for life @!


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## bankit (14 December 2008)

*Re: Now what!*



bankit said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just another fly in the ointment.
> 
> ...





*Edit note: Whoops! I did not know a thread was started on this*


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## Aussiejeff (14 December 2008)

numbercruncher said:


> Put the criminal parasite in Prison for life @!




But, being the criminal parasite that he is, he would chew up vast sums of taxpayer's money keeping him "comfortable" in prison.

Better still, strap a big knife in each hand, blindfold him and set him loose in suburban Melbourne. I'm sure the VIC Police would administer proper justice... 


Edit: What am I saying!  It IS "only" a piddly $50Billion of Play Dough after all. If it was $10Trillion, maybe the markets would drop 50 points before rebounding... having shown total indifference to the news and depth of the Ponzi scam so far. 

aj


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## GumbyLearner (14 December 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> Better still, strap a big knife in each hand, blindfold him and set him loose in suburban Melbourne. I'm sure the VIC Police would administer proper justice...
> 
> aj




Thats hilarious aj
ROFLMAO

I agree NC.

Who gives a flying f*ck how many charities or nice 'things'
this crook did to help others?

I beg you your honor can you please mitigate down my sentence, I know I scammed $50 Billion. :nosympath:nosympath

"All gangsters are patriotic"
Michael Gold


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## banco (14 December 2008)

He's 78.  His lawyers will drag this out for 2 years or so and then in sentencing say due to his age/health he should get a short sentence.


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## Aussiejeff (15 December 2008)

banco said:


> He's 78.  His lawyers will drag this out for 2 years or so and then in sentencing say due to his age/health *he should get a short sentence.*




If by that they meant _chainsawing his arms and legs off_, I'd be happy. :chainsaw:


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## basilio (15 December 2008)

This scam will be Tsunami.  By the time all the losers surface I believe more banks will fall and  frankly most hedge funds will die as the last vestiges of confidence evaporate.

I found an excellent story on the web from one of the very few people who sussed out the scam years ago and steered their clients away. Worth a read particularly when you are trying to evaluate the legitamcy of a proposal.

Bernie Comes Out of the Closet


> Not a year has gone by during the past fifteen that I have not contemplated what Bernie Madoff did (or didn't do) to make his money. Seventy to one-hundred basis-points-a-month. Net. Net. Net. During tempests, earthquakes, panics and crashes - even during the closure of the exchange itself, Bernie apparently minted coin like few others. Even Renaissance and Shaw tripped occasionally. Not Bernie. Yet no one knew what he did. It was one of the best kept secrets in the world. Oh yeah, sure, split-strike conversions were the official line. But every skeptical arb trader knew this couldn't be true.




http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/2008/12/bernie-comes-out-of-closet.html


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## GumbyLearner (15 December 2008)

Bernard Madoff’s ‘One Big Lie’ Drew Hedge Funds, Banks: Table

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aouNCdsBzMas&refer=us

just to name a few...definitely many more exposed JMO


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## theasxgorilla (15 December 2008)

BradK said:


> Can you spell out for us what deflation might mean for the average Aussie battler like myself? Declining house prices, negative equity, almost no access to credit, unemployment???



_
"Only when that deflation has played out and rational policies that reward market-based management and returns are restored will it be worthwhile to invest again. *In the meanwhile, any wealth saved securely from state seizure will "swell" to buy more assets in future* - a key aspect of deflation and a key means of restoring the control of the economy into the hands of more farsighted savers and investors."_

I think how it affects each individual will be, well, individual.  But if you get through it with some wealth intact you got the above to look forward too.


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## Nick Radge (15 December 2008)

I think there is another (yet another) underlying message here, one that has unfortunately been sprung before. Regardless of the controls in place by the regulators there will always be a means to bypass the law and rip the unsuspecting individual off. I will not mention names here but a certain blue chip (questionable) investment bank whom I have personal knowledge of has recently closed its margin lending business. You will not read about this in the press, but it suffered extensive losses due to rogue advisors in two separate locations. The issue is that the compliance controls that were in place were extreme to say the least yet they were still circumnavigated by those that wished to break the law.

If someone wants to break they law they will find a way.

End of story.

Compliance or not.

Regulator or not.

I think the important message is:

Trust no one.

Learn to do it yourself. Control your own account. Manage your own money. Take responsibility for your own destiny.


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## Temjin (15 December 2008)

Has anyone read Steve Keen's latest post on Madoff's ponzi scheme?

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/12/13/the-worlds-biggest-ponzi-scheme/

I agree with him. The biggest one is actually our credit driven asset boom where it can only be sustained by increasing debt.

So I wondered how this is going to affect the global economy / markets in general?

My opinions are that it will have a flow on effect for other "legitimately operated" hedge funds where they will suffer as a result of the confidence damage caused by Madoff's scam. This in turns cause more liquidations than what has already "crashed" the commodity markets and perhaps make deflation an even stronger case for the shorter term.

Now my believes are that the commodity markets have become more and more efficient because of sheer number of participants by the hedge funds trying to exploit these inefficiencies. By erasing a large portion of their presence in the markets, it may provide us traders to utilise strategies that may not have worked in the past and may work again. That is, the markets may become more inefficient because of these hedge funds collapse. Sounds like good to me.  

What do you think about it Nick?


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## theasxgorilla (15 December 2008)

Nick Radge said:


> I think the important message is:
> 
> Trust no one.
> 
> Learn to do it yourself. Control your own account. Manage your own money. Take responsibility for your own destiny.




Indeed...and learn to select your coat tails wisely .


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## GumbyLearner (19 December 2008)

theasxgorilla said:


> Indeed...and learn to select your coat tails wisely .




LOL

"The beautiful consequence of the market is that it is its own guardian"
- Robert L. Heilbroner


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## GumbyLearner (19 December 2008)

New SEC boss Mary Schapiro gave Madoff's son a job 

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article5364345.ece

Mary Schapiro, Barack Obama's choice to lead the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), previously appointed one of Bernard Madoff's sons to a regulatory body that oversees American securities firms. 

It has emerged that in 2001, Ms Schapiro, currently chief executive of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra), employed Mark Madoff to serve on the board of the National Adjudicatory Council ”” the division that reviews disciplinary decisions made by Finra. 

:fu:


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## CAB SAV (19 December 2008)

As Peter Schiff said a couple of days ago, don't send him to jail,Obama should appoint Bernie Madoff as his treasury secretary. US are running the biggest Ponzi/Pryamid scheme in the world with an endless supply of new buyers of t notes. The longer they operate(printing money) the larger the losses.


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## GumbyLearner (19 December 2008)

CAB SAV said:


> As Peter Schiff said a couple of days ago, don't send him to jail,Obama should appoint Bernie Madoff as his treasury secretary. US are running the biggest Ponzi/Pryamid scheme in the world with an endless supply of new buyers of t notes. The longer they operate(printing money) the larger the losses.




I wonder how many more Madoff's are out there.

And what future ramifications/ spin offs from such a poorly
administered system. 

http://video.aol.com/partner/cnn/ma...im:50billion:scam:charities/?icid=VIDLRVNWS06 

http://www.blinkx.com/video/charities-among-hardest-hit-in-madoff-fraud/hO6V_l9n_U7ug1Robq_-CA

:nono:


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## GumbyLearner (19 December 2008)

Bloomberg on how Madoff made off with the cash

http://www.blinkx.com/video/cox-fab...-on-madoff-fraud-probe/dd-ZDnfmKNwA2vHlU9Rk9w


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## GumbyLearner (20 December 2008)

Lets make some MONEY! 

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleyca...t_bernard_madoff_book_deals_arrive_103889.asp

You people are garbage!!!!!!


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## GumbyLearner (20 December 2008)

Your name is MUD!

MUD


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## Aussiejeff (20 December 2008)

GumbyLearner said:


> *I wonder how many more Madoff's are out there.*




Gumby, you hit the nail on my head *OUCH* 

MadeOff is just one domino in the Great World Ponzi Swindle. 

I, being a Deep Thinker such as your good self  have pondered the imponderable - that there are many more tarnished Ponzi Idols to fall yet.

The flow on effect is incalculable. Coz the total number of PonziPoofs is as yet unknown.

*sigh*


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## CFDtrader2009 (20 December 2008)

*The Tragedy of Bernie Madoff*

And speaking of things that should not be, yesterday I was talking with a few fellow money mangers on a conference call when the news came that Bernie Madoff had been arrested and his fund was missing at least $17 billion, and maybe losses were as much as $50 billion. This is so very, very tragic, as it is not just large investors with well-diversified portfolios who lost here. Many smaller investors around the world had significant sums of money with Madoff. Far too many were not as diversified as they should have been. Some of the stories already surfacing are of horrific personal losses to investors and retirees who have no way to come back from such losses.
The fact that Madoff will spend the rest of his life in jail in no way compensates for the loss of so many people whose lives have been seriously impacted. It is just so terribly sad.

Madoff is a topic that comes up very often in alternative investment circles. I have been talking about his fund with friends at various conferences for almost a decade. "How does he do it?" we wondered. His fund posted steady 1-1.5% monthly returns since 1996, with only a few losing months in all that time. Supposedly he was doing something called split strike conversions. Some speculated that he was actually front-running trades in his market-making business. (Interestingly, regulators who looked at his market-making business never investigated the fund to see if he was doing just that, although I believe there were suggestions and other hints to them.) But arbitrage traders in the same arena could never figure out how he did it, and many were openly sceptical. Everyone, even the smartest trading shops, had losing months and quarters. But not Madoff. The fund was a complete black box and no one knew exactly what he did. Oddly, I have never met or known of anyone who has ever met a trader who came out of Madoff's shop. I run into resumes of ex-traders at various other funds all the time. No one knew what he did, even employees in his (what seems to be legitimate) market-making business, which was walled off from his investment funds. This was a man who was once chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market. He was trusted and looked up to. 

There were signs if you looked for them. The lack of transparency, for starters. The fact that he did his own trades with his own firm and made commissions on them. There was no prime broker where the real assets could be seen. How do you run a $17 billion fund without a room full of traders? I have been on the trading floors of smaller funds, and there are scores of people. A fund that size should have a football field-sized trading floor. Even if it was computerized, there had to be programmers. And lots of them. And where were the geniuses who designed these programs? Jim Simons at Renaissance has hundreds of support staff for his operation. He is one of the best, and he has losing periods. The "auditors" of the Madoff fund was a firm that was located in one 13x18-foot room. For a $17 billion dollar fund? Really? Real audits take lots of manpower.

That being said, a lot of smart people invested in the fund. They trusted Bernie. And anyone who looked at those returns had to be a little tempted. After all, weren't regulators looking at it? (The answer is no.)
Now we know how he made those returns. It was a Ponzi. Except this may have been larger than Enron and ultimately more damaging to more people than any scandal in the past. I remember writing a few years ago, in response to an article in Forbes about some minor hedge fund frauds, that all the losses of all the hedge fund frauds combined did not equal an Enron or WorldCom or just the plain old loss in a few larger companies in the Nasdaq in 2000-2002. I can't say that now.

Note to my fellow alternative industry participants: There is going to be a rush by Congress to regulate hedge funds. The SEC tried to regulate hedge funds a few years ago but had to back away when the Supreme Court said they did not have the authority. When the stories come out over the next few weeks (and I have heard some that really cause me heartache), there will be hearings in Congress. Rules will be passed. Quickly. And they should be. 

Instead of fighting regulation as many did last time, we should recognize that this is a war that cannot be won and bow to the inevitable and at least get a few benefits from regulation, like the ability to publicly post past performance (although given the carnage of late, that is not as attractive as when I suggested it a few years ago!). I am regulated by FINRA, the NFA, and the state of Texas. We have had an average of one audit a year by some regulator for the past five years. My firm is small and it does cost a lot, but it certainly does not keep us from operating and growing our business. And I must (grudgingly) admit it does keep us on our toes. So let's sue for whatever terms we can in what should be recognized as a total surrender. And then move on.

When I was a young man I wanted to grow up to be a science fiction writer. The real world has turned out much stranger than I could dream at that time. There are just so many things which should not be.


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## Naked shorts (22 December 2008)

CFDtrader2009 said:


> *The Tragedy of Bernie Madoff*......
> ......
> .....
> 
> When I was a young man I wanted to grow up to be a science fiction writer. The real world has turned out much stranger than I could dream at that time. There are just so many things which should not be.




Nice cut and paste job there CFDtrader2009
http://news.goldseek.com/MillenniumWaveAdvisors/1229299250.php


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## CFDtrader2009 (22 December 2008)

Naked shorts said:


> Nice cut and paste job there CFDtrader2009
> http://news.goldseek.com/MillenniumWaveAdvisors/1229299250.php




Thanks Naked shorts, I received it as an email forward but did not have a source. Thanks for the link.

Cheers

CFDtrader09


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## Green08 (22 December 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> Phew! Of course, this is the only Mega Ponzi scheme that will be "outed" by the current World Financial Crisis. We can breathe easy now.
> 
> Oh, I see. So, there might be more crazy apes yet to be shaken out of the Funny Money Tree?
> 
> ...




Ahh AJ,

When I heard it I was a little stunned.  I feel for the charities, not for the twits who thought they were in a secure golden bubble!l   Seriously, after what came before I really expected them to be more insightful and even perhaps questioning their money to move some of it.

I don't think this is the last Ponzi chip to fall.  There will more than likely be more and bigger.

Have a lovely holiday AJ  with more pics please.


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## Glen48 (22 December 2008)

Will this be the next bail out for all the high profile investors who thought 13% return year in year out was a good return and their returns were not affected by the market?
Next time you look up greed online they will have a photo of Madoff and his Ponzi scheme.
Looks like one of the most powerful of the 7 deadly sins.


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## CFDtrader2009 (23 December 2008)

The world's biggest Ponzi scheme


_Madoff’s firm was famous for returning constant positive results, even on a month by month basis, for decades. _

I guess we need to keep an eye on these things as the old adage goes "if its to good to be true, it probably is"

I was reading Market Wizards the other day, I wonder how many of them are still running their hedge funds??


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## Aussiejeff (24 December 2008)

> *[size=+1]Madoff Fund Operator De La Villehuchet Found Dead[/size]* (Update1)
> 
> By Saijel Kishan and Katherine Burton
> 
> ...




The decent thing would be for the FBI to issue Madoff with a .45 Magnum for his "own imminent & personal use".


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## GumbyLearner (24 December 2008)

AJ Im hearing you!!!!

This problem is far more complex than that!

The problem is that this guy will claim "he had no knowledge
of improprierty within his own company"

Even though obviously his front appears to be "on its face" a total scam!

He will tie up the prosecutors on this basis! For a year or possibly a decade

Everyone knows he meant to rip off people but ANY government that has a SOFT regime dealing with mental intent whether it be fraud, uttering, or using shonk structures!!!! Fraud is the hardest thing to prove remember!!! You have to prove that this guy believed he was ripping people off, well obviously $50 billion is peanuts what about 1/2 a trillion then this c**t might be serious right!!!!

I hope this total scumbag gets f**ked, but I doubt it!

He will probably get off with a SLAP on the wrist! But hopefully anyone associated with him in the future will be treated with TOTAL CAUTION!

A quote to remember:

"A man with a briefcase can steal more than one hundred men with handguns."
Don Corleone - The Godfather

Shame about all the poor people -> his business have NOW LEFT ON THE STREET!

Yes I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do the crime Do the time!!


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## Solly (24 December 2008)

A French investment fund manager badly hit by the multi-billion dollar Madoff scandal has topped himself in his New York office...  

http://news.theage.com.au/business/madoffhit-investor-commits-suicide-20081224-74gf.html


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## Naked shorts (24 December 2008)

GumbyLearner said:


> I hope this total scumbag gets f**ked, but I doubt it!
> 
> He will probably get off with a SLAP on the wrist! But hopefully anyone associated with him in the future will be treated with TOTAL CAUTION!




He screwed over high net worth individuals and charities. This is the biggest scam in history, I beleive he will get punished to the full extent of the law.


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## GumbyLearner (24 December 2008)

Solly said:


> A French investment fund manager badly hit by the multi-billion dollar Madoff scandal has topped himself in his New York office...
> 
> http://news.theage.com.au/business/madoffhit-investor-commits-suicide-20081224-74gf.html




You see if this guy was a "professional" he woudlnt have plugged himself.
He would have been discerning and diligent but obviously not the case. Just bathing in anothers 'supposed glory'!

Interesting to see this unfolds and how the nepostically stacked SEC responds....


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## GumbyLearner (26 December 2008)

This scam dwarfs Enron, Worldcom & Tyco combined 

Wall Street fraud prosecutions fall sharply

From the Houston Chronicle December 25, 2008

WASHINGTON ”” Federal officials are bringing far fewer prosecutions as a result of fraudulent stock schemes than they did eight years ago, according to new data, raising fresh questions about whether the Bush administration has been too lax in policing Wall Street.

Legal and financial experts say a loosening of enforcement measures, staff cuts at the Securities and Exchange Commission, and a shift in resources toward terrorism at the FBI have combined to make the federal government something of a paper tiger in investigating securities crimes.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/6181423.html


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## Glen48 (26 December 2008)

Have to give him credit to pull it off for so long..Made off is a Genius just like Mozart and others.
I remember watching some movie were the gladiators  were fighting in the Arena and some bloke watching was booing etc knowing he was safe in stands . Nero stopped the fighting and threw this bloke in with the others fighters.. the expression on his face was priceless....just like the filthy rich who were with Made Off and thinking they were someone only to be brought down to the battlers level over night.


----------



## Glen48 (26 December 2008)

Have to give him credit to pull it off for so long..Made off is a Genius just like Mozart and others.
I remember watching some movie were the gladiators  were fighting in the Arena and some bloke watching was booing etc knowing he was safe in stands . Nero stopped the fighting and threw this bloke in with the others fighters.. the expression on his face was priceless....just like the filthy rich who were with Made Off and thinking they were someone only to be brought down to the battlers level over night.


----------



## Macquack (26 December 2008)

Naked shorts said:


> He screwed over high net worth individuals and charities. This is the biggest scam in history, *I beleive he will get punished to the full extent of the law*.




Big deal, he will end up with a good roof over his head and three square meals a day (at the taxpayers expense).

He will probably be better off than a lot of his former clients.


----------



## awg (26 December 2008)

I sincerely believe he should be given the same treatment as the Chinese official in charge of Food and drug..or was it the toys...anyway he was taken out and shot.


----------



## Naked shorts (26 December 2008)

Macquack said:


> Big deal, he will end up with a good roof over his head and three square meals a day (at the taxpayers expense).
> 
> He will probably be better off than a lot of his former clients.




If your saying being in jail is better then losing $4bil, your probably right. What I'm saying is he screwed people who have power. They will do everything they can to ruin he life


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 December 2008)

GumbyLearner said:


> This scam dwarfs Enron, Worldcom & Tyco combined
> 
> Wall Street fraud prosecutions fall sharply
> 
> ...




It was a Ponzi scheme and those who got caught deserve everything they lost.

Advisers like this are at the top of the mountain of s**t that passes for financial advice.

gg


----------



## GumbyLearner (31 December 2008)

"De-regulation they have gone to regularly nothing"
You have to love the well-versed Tony Soprano accent!!!!

Chinese walls what a call??????????? Impossible to violate rules???
Impossible to get detected????

Infractions are relatively small ???? 

:angry:

"Its virtually impossible to violate rules, if you read things in the newspapers..."



Garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## GumbyLearner (31 December 2008)




----------



## BradK (31 December 2008)

That guy is pathological isnt he? Wow... a great liar. Yes, hand him to the Chinese for the same fate as the drug and admin guy... but first waterboard him.


----------



## GumbyLearner (31 December 2008)

BradK said:


> That guy is pathological isnt he? Wow... a great liar. Yes, hand him to the Chinese for the same fate as the drug and admin guy... but first waterboard him.




Yeah but his son so still works for the SEC and was re-appointed by Obama!  Brad.

But he didnt know anything of course!


----------



## theasxgorilla (31 December 2008)

GumbyLearner, that is an awesome video.  Not just for the Made-off footage but for what his "business partner" had to say.  Notice the back down from the kid and the over-ride from Made-off (the boss) after Made-off tells everyone how these days they're 99.9% computer driven and the kid then goes on to basically describe how computer-driven quant trading systems are bound to bring one another undone and can exaggerate crashes.

Notice how they keep referring to the August "correction" as evidence of this.  Notice that they recorded this at the market top...well, 3 weeks after the S&P500 peaked to be precise.

That kid is smart, he knew where the money was at:  if quant traders are all going to make and lose money together and brokerage margins have dried up, pair up with someone who transacts often and automate/computerise the transaction processing.

Classic stuff.  Not just for Made-off almost rationalising why he had to steal and deceive to make the big money on Wall St.  And by the way he describes things it's not at all surprising that there have been soft accusations of conspirators in his not-so-small escapade, including big-name investment banks and regulators.


----------



## Aussiejeff (31 December 2008)

theasxgorilla said:


> GumbyLearner, that is an awesome video.  Not just for the Made-off footage but for what his "business partner" had to say.  Notice the back down from the kid and the over-ride from Made-off (the boss) after Made-off tells everyone how these days they're 99.9% computer driven and the kid then goes on to basically describe how computer-driven quant trading systems are bound to bring one another undone and can exaggerate crashes.
> 
> Notice how they keep referring to the August "correction" as evidence of this.  Notice that they recorded this at the market top...well, 3 weeks after the S&P500 peaked to be precise.
> 
> ...




I never imagined that "The Men In Black" might be somehow involved in this steaming pile of dog$hit....


----------



## theasxgorilla (31 December 2008)

The full length version of that video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gclja-C2sOU

It's about two hours in duration.  Right at the end, for the very last question a guy asks, "what about the 60 million people who are due to retire in the next 10 years?".

Made-off is the first to respond, his off camera comment: "Good luck".

Unbelievable.


----------



## GumbyLearner (1 January 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Yeah but his son so still works for the SEC and was re-appointed by Obama!  Brad.
> 
> But he didnt know anything of course!




Just to clarify Obama did not re-appoint a Madeoff.

He re-appointed and elevated Schapiro to the top SEC post and she had previously hired one of Madeoff's sons.

Sorry, Im just human and prone to error!


----------



## GumbyLearner (1 January 2009)

theasxgorilla said:


> The full length version of that video can be found here:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gclja-C2sOU
> 
> ...





I agree asxg. Disgusting behaviour.
Obviously his firm never really cared about retirees or clients for that matter.

If you go to about the 15:30 minute mark on the youtube link I posted earlier.
You have to love what the MC has to say


Quote 

"...This is great we've gotten rid of all these irrational, flawed, error-prone, corrupt people POTENTIALLY so.. (BIG LAUGH) (crowd applause)"

Then he proceeds to say

Quote

"..Have we reached market nirvana?" 

Clearly much better to have an automated system. Much better that you dont need to call your clients. :sheep:


----------



## GumbyLearner (1 January 2009)

Here's the latest from Time Magazine and the appearance of the missing statue

Madoff's Victims: Finding Meaning in the Devastation

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1869043,00.html

Madoff's Stolen Statue Recovered By Pest Control Workers

http://www.finalternatives.com/node/6489


----------



## Aussiejeff (6 January 2009)

LOL.

He just... can't ... help himself. What a legend!! 




> Prosecutors say disgraced financier *Bernard Madoff violated bail conditions by mailing about $US1 million ($A1.4 million) worth of jewelry and other assets to relatives* and should be jailed without bail.



http://compareshares.com.au/show_news.php?id=S-541760


----------



## BradK (6 January 2009)

Clearly this guy thinks he is above the law... oh wait, he IS above the law - wait... he WAS the law... 

America is sick sick sick - look at who they are handing out medals of freedom to now! 

Puke
Brad


----------



## Stormin_Norman (6 January 2009)

what a legend. scamming so many people who thought they knew it all.


----------



## Glen48 (6 January 2009)

Maybe the scammers who got rich by scamming others and then getting scammed by another scammer who was a better scammer than the others scammers will now want to do some thing about the scamming laws in USA?
The 7 deadly sins are still working well and the Human Brain is still some thing to behold.


----------



## Stormin_Norman (6 January 2009)

lizard brains.


----------



## Aussiejeff (6 January 2009)

Glen48 said:


> Maybe the scammers who got rich by scamming others and then getting scammed by another scammer who was a better scammer than the others scammers will now want to do some thing about the scamming laws in USA?
> The 7 deadly sins are still working well and the Human Brain is still some thing to behold.




*DING*

You have given me a great idea Mr Glen! 

Since MadeOff is now recognized as "The Greatest Scammer Of All Time" - capable of fooling the CIA, FBI, USA etc - why doesn't Mr Bush give him a full pardon and employ him to scam rogue Islamist states? He could become The Ultimate Weapon Against Terrorists!!!

BRILLIANT!!! 

I think I deserve a Freedom Medal for that masterful plan.   

:bananasmi


----------



## Stormin_Norman (6 January 2009)

china have already scammed the US.

they could dump their USD stockpile, withdraw their funds and the financial system would crash and burn.


----------



## GumbyLearner (6 January 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> LOL.
> 
> He just... can't ... help himself. What a legend!!
> 
> ...




Hey AJ

It really makes me wonder if this guys name will become an eponym of future
colloquial expression in American Society. Maybe they could update the Websters Dictionary and include some expressions. 

For example, " I dont know if I trust you with my capital it might get _*Mad(e)offed*_". "Look out that dodgy used car salesman is selling you a lemon, it looks like he's trying to *Mad(e)off *you" 

or alternatively

"The armed bandits made off with empty bags after holding up the bank, only to realise that the bank had been *mad(e)offed* the day before"


----------



## GumbyLearner (6 January 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Hey AJ
> 
> It really makes me wonder if this guys name will become an eponym of future
> colloquial expression in American Society. Maybe they could update the Websters Dictionary and include some expressions.
> ...




ASfer's can feel free to add any eponym they like to the list...


----------



## GumbyLearner (7 January 2009)

Talk about connections. Wow looks like the Madeoff's have taken the 
SEC into marital union. This is getting more interesting than any episode
of 'Days of Our Lives'.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jFqIBk_at-eY6cwSjoZzZ3FqWb5AD95HLMB00

*The SEC's internal watchdog, Inspector General H. David Kotz, said he is so concerned about the agency's failure to uncover Madoff's alleged Ponzi scheme that he is expanding the inquiry called for last month by SEC Chairman Christopher Cox. Cox had pushed the blame squarely onto the SEC's career staff for the failure to detect what Madoff was doing.

Kotz told the House hearing he will examine the operations of the SEC's enforcement and inspection divisions and will make recommendations, steps beyond what Cox had called for.

It appears that the complaints against Madoff's operations by securities industry executive Harry Markopolos and others were "brought to the right place" within the SEC, Kotz said, and to enough people that action could have been taken.

Among other facets, Kotz's review will delve, as Cox had asked, into all SEC staff contacts and relationships with the Madoff family and the firm — and the possible impact on staff decisions.

Kotz is examining the relationship between a former SEC attorney, Eric Swanson, and Madoff's niece, Shana, who are now married. As an SEC attorney, Swanson was part of a team that examined Madoff's securities brokerage operation in 1999 and 2004. Neither review resulted in any action against Madoff, a former chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market who was a member of SEC advisory committees.*


----------



## Glen48 (7 January 2009)

Can you lend me a quid...no I am as broke as a Madeoff victim.
That's not a Ponzi scheme Charles..... this is a Ponzi scheme
Is that a good company yer they make more in a month than Madeoff does in a year.

Daddy is that a Pyramid ?...yer but Madeoff can do better.

Ozzie we got Storm Financial....  Yank pfftt that nuthing we got Madeoff.
The cooks made off with the Maid... phew you have me worried there for a minute thought I was in trouble


----------



## GumbyLearner (7 January 2009)

Glen48 said:


> Can you lend me a quid...no I am as broke as a Madeoff victim.
> 
> Daddy is that a Pyramid ?...yer but Madeoff can do better.
> 
> Ozzie we got Storm Financial....  Yank pfftt that nuthing we got Madeoff.




LOL Classics


----------



## Glen48 (7 January 2009)

Bailiff  can you really get me 15% a month on the Bail money?
Sound to good to be true were do I sign?
Me Mums got a few bucks as well I will ring her now.


----------



## GumbyLearner (7 January 2009)

Glen48 said:


> Bailiff  can you really get me 15% a month on the Bail money?
> Sound to good to be true were do I sign?
> Me Mums got a few bucks as well I will ring her now.





Son, the milk has been made off why didnt you put it back in the fridge after using it?

What could I do Mum the fridge was Madeoffed because you maxed out your 2nd credit card paying off the first one!! Where was I meant to put it?


----------



## GumbyLearner (7 January 2009)

Madeoffed a new board game brought to you by Infinite Returns.

The slogan "Nepotism has never been so fun and guilt free"


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 January 2009)

Apparently, the Securities Investment Protection Corporation has $1.5 Billion to cover investor scam losses. It is rumoured that it will be increased to $15 Billion. 

I wonder what proportion will be from people scammed by the Madeoffs? And what proportion of those reside in Tax Havens?

Another Bailout in the pipeline?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-madoff7-2009jan07,0,3608953.story


----------



## GumbyLearner (10 January 2009)

Where's a solid Anton Pillar order when you really need one?


----------



## GumbyLearner (10 January 2009)

You have to freeze this guy out? 

Come on we are begging you guys? Do you have laws??????


----------



## Aussiejeff (10 January 2009)

Now, a problem for China of "Madoffian" proportions.... 





> China owns $653 billion of Treasuries, and indications are that it’s losing its appetite for U.S. debt. Expect Asia’s second-biggest economy to cut the share of dollars in its $1.9 trillion of reserves, and perhaps sharply.
> 
> The U.S. is, after all, acting at the expense of its best customer. Just as shareholders abhor companies diluting their stock with new offerings, China’s debt managers can’t be happy with the Treasury’s plans.
> 
> Along with its Faustian bargain, one wonders if China risks a *Madoffian* one, too.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aHOuXTmCv61Y&refer=home

LOL

This Madeoff jerk will make it into the lexicon of World Lingo for sure.

2008-2009 will become known as "The Madeoff Era".


----------



## DB008 (10 January 2009)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2NGKHE1SX1I&refer=home


----------



## Aussiejeff (10 January 2009)

DB008 said:


> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2NGKHE1SX1I&refer=home




The dobbing turncoat is not worthy of the Madeoff family name.


----------



## Macquack (10 January 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> The dobbing turncoat is not worthy of the Madeoff family name.



Aussiejeff, I think the sons ARE worthy of the Madoff family name.

"Mark Madoff and his brother, Andrew, 42, turned in their father to the U.S. government after he told them last month he was operating a $50 billion Ponzi scheme." (As if they did not know?)

*One Last Scam*

We got caught, what will we do? 

We will pin all the blame on only one person, the oldest guy so that the rest of us can keep *OUR SHARE *of the stolen monies that we earnt *FAIR AND SQUARE*. 

It's not easy work fleecing institutional investors and highly educated individual investors of billions of dollars. Somebody actually had to *WORK* to operate the scheme *SUCCESSFULLY*. Mark Madoff (son) was worth every penny of his salary of $770,000 US back in 2000.

I say, throw the *whole clan *into jail. It might be the safest place for them.


----------



## GumbyLearner (11 January 2009)

A New York artist has come up with a novel way to scorn the disgraced Wall Street financier Bernard Madoff: a bottle of hot habenero sauce called "Bernie in hell". 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...Bernie-Madoff-in-hell-hot-sauce-launched.html

I wonder if the proceeds will go to charity?


----------



## GumbyLearner (11 January 2009)

Chairman of the financial arm of General Motors GMAC resigns Friday due to link with Madeoff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/business/10gmac.html?ref=business

General Motors weren't available for comment.

Surprise Surprise Surprise


----------



## GumbyLearner (12 January 2009)

Forbes journo refers to the SEC as "meatheads".

Severing The Financial Social Contract by
Robert Lenzner

http://www.forbes.com/finance/2009/01/11/treasury-goldman-citigroup-pf-ii-in_rl_0111croesus_inl.html

We also have the meatheads at the SEC who had 10 chances to nab Bernie Madoff and never laid a glove on him. Madoff's extraordinary duplicity, undiscovered for decades, has soured the climate for investing despite the sharp rally in stocks since the November lows.

Also from Politico

Brace for more Madoff scandals
January 11, 2009

“History teaches us that if there is a gap in regulatory enforcement, there will not only be one offender that will be devious enough to slip through,” Bachus said. “Unfortunately, when the tide goes out you find out who’s swimming naked, and I suspect that Madoff was not the only one.” 

Veteran fraud investigators, too, say they’re almost certain that other financial frauds are waiting to be discovered. “There are probably a lot of shocks out there still to come,” said Michael Varnum, a former chief of the FBI’s public corruption and economic crimes programs who’s now a senior vice president at the private investigative firm Corporate Risk International. 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17252.html


----------



## GumbyLearner (13 January 2009)

No Cigar!

As long as he keeps records he's doing the right thing.

http://news.theage.com.au/world/judge-orders-madoff-to-remain-on-bail-20090113-7fc3.html


----------



## GumbyLearner (13 January 2009)

Let the healing begin



Ok it will begin just dont upset developing countries
but they are hearing you Dave Letterman 

Why would anyone want Bernie to apologize for his garbage disposal unit, because he doesnt know or care for that matter that the garbage unit exists, AND WHY SHOULD HE? He's garbage right? RIGHT!

And nor do you Mr. Letterman shame on you!


----------



## GumbyLearner (13 January 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Let the healing begin
> 
> 
> 
> ...





He must have sought asylum in Nigeria.


----------



## awg (13 January 2009)

heres a few observations.

1) The internal auditor must have been criminally corrupt.

2) With an operation like this, sophisticated custom software is needed.

Whoever wrote it must almost certainly have been aware that it would be used to provide incorrect data, as the program coding need updating and maintenance, a very specialised job.

3) The SEC investigators would more than likely be just out of college, low wage dummies. If they were top notch they would have been snapped up by Wall st for twice their salaries. Their incompetence is now proven

4) I have no doubt whatsoever that the sons and the old man would have cooked up the "dob in" story, to try and deflect the blame.
The sons would have known about problems long before it blew up.

5) I predict the old man will have "health problems"...this type of family scam is age old


----------



## basilio (13 January 2009)

> 1) The internal auditor must have been criminally corrupt.
> 
> 2) With an operation like this, sophisticated custom software is needed.
> 
> ...




All no doubt true.

Question. In the boom time, money led markets of of the last 15 years, which  person or organisation would have the courage to put up their hand and say one of the most respected and consistently profitable funds was a sham? And would they be believed?

A few years ago I was introduced to the PIPS scam. HYIP earn 2% a day  projection. Obviously and clearly a scam but so well done it sucked in many people including friends.

I did some basic research on PIPS, put a package together and sent it to ASIC *imploring them to take action ASAP precisely because its cleverness would mean a longer and ultimately more disastrous run.*

I was ignored. Many months later when PIPS finally fell over ASIC also jumped on board. But again as always, at the end of the game. Any similarities here?


----------



## awg (15 January 2009)

One of the most intriguing aspects will be to find out how long this bad business has been going on?

Has it been a Ponzi scheme from the start?

Were legitimate investments being made?

What was the cause of the blowout?

Human ingenuity will always devise innovations of the good ole Confidence trick.

Almost like the Nigerians, just ask for the money!


----------



## GumbyLearner (15 January 2009)

Here is the submission by Markopolous (anonymous at the time)
from 2005 about the activities of Mr.Madeoffs brokerage. Page 14 contains his conclusions.

Nov 7, 2005
http://online.wsj.com/documents/Madoff_SECdocs_20081217.pdf

File is too large to attach.


----------



## basilio (16 January 2009)

> Here is the submission by Markopolous (anonymous at the time)
> from 2005 about the activities of Mr.Madeoffs brokerage. Page 14 contains his conclusions.
> 
> Nov 7, 2005
> http://online.wsj.com/documents/Mado...s_20081217.pdf




Talk about smoking gun ? How about a 21 inch cannon. 

That attachment has to be one of the most comprehensive  and understandable analysis of a financial fraud I have ever seen. It demands immediate action and yet was ignored.  I think the people who did not follow up on the report are also guilty of criminal offences.

*I suggest that all forum members should take the opportunity to read the report and consider the questions they ask of any investment opportunity. *


----------



## awg (16 January 2009)

basilio said:


> Talk about smoking gun ? How about a 21 inch cannon.
> 
> That attachment has to be one of the most comprehensive  and understandable analysis of a financial fraud I have ever seen. It demands immediate action and yet was ignored.  I think the people who did not follow up on the report are also guilty of criminal offences.
> 
> *I suggest that all forum members should take the opportunity to read the report and consider the questions they ask of any investment opportunity. *






After reading that report, I have no doubt that the responsible SEC officials involved in this case should be immediately dismissed for gross incompetence, and possibly prosecuted for negligence.

You would have to wonder if the SEC might get sued, if their inaction was so negligent, it lead to increased losses.

This story has gone strangely quiet in the media, considering the ripple effects of imploding hedge funds liquidating their positions, would/will surely have a negative effect on various markets


----------



## Macquack (18 January 2009)

awg said:


> One of the most intriguing aspects will be to find out how long this bad business has been going on?
> 
> *Has it been a Ponzi scheme from the start*?




It appears so.


*Madoff fund may have made no trades*

http://compareshares.com.au/show_news.php?id=S-544300

"The investment fund run by disgraced money manager Bernard Madoff may not have made even a single trade"


 If the son Mark Madoff knew nothing of the scheme, his salary of $770,000 back in 2000 was a bit excessive for a "lunch boy".

I suggest that Madoff who is under house arrest in his $7 million Upper East Side penthouse should be moved to *house arrest in a United Nations run school in the Gaza Strip.*


----------



## GumbyLearner (18 January 2009)

Macquack said:


> It appears so.
> 
> 
> *Madoff fund may have made no trades*
> ...





Like Mr.Buffett warned all of us that Financial WMD's dont exist right??


----------



## GumbyLearner (20 January 2009)

http://www.dickipedia.org/dick.php?title=Bernard_Madoff


----------



## GumbyLearner (24 January 2009)

Banco Santander Painted a Rosy Madoff Picture Just Weeks Before His Arrest

http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/4610#more-4610

*  “The real and effectual discipline which is exercised over a workman is ... that of his customers. It is the fear of losing their employment which restrains his frauds and corrects his negligence.” - Adam Smith * 

Well in theory anyway------------------------------------------->!!

Jan 23, 2009

Just weeks before Bernard Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme collapsed, managers at Banco Santander’s Optimal hedge fund investment arm were praising Madoff’s supposedly “impeccable” market timing, according to a report on FT.com.  Once Madoff was arrested for securities fraud, investors in Banco Santander’s Optimal Strategic US Equity Fund lost more than $3.1 million because of investments made with the alleged swindler.

The glowing evaluation of Madoff was made in a report issued by Optimal managers to institutional investors in the fund.  According to FT.com, the report said the managers were  “impressed” by  Madoff’s ability “to find great entry and exit points to benefit investors”.

But that rosy assessment conflicts with the actions of some other Banco Santander officials.  According to FT.com, they were “sufficiently concerned about Optimal’s client exposure to Madoff” that a director of the bank was sent to meet with Madoff in New York  in November.

There are conflicting reports about what happened at that meeting, FT.com said. One account has Banco Santander attempting to withdraw Optimal’s funds. It is speculated that the withdraw request may have been behind Madoff’s reported confession of the Ponzi scheme to his sons.  But according to FT.com, other sources have called the November meeting “routine”.

A Spanish prosecutor is already trying to get to the bottom of the Banco Santander mess, having opened an investigation shortly after Madoff’s December arrest.  In addition to trying to ascertain what happened at that November meeting, the prosecutor is investigating whether managers of the Optimal Strategic US Equity Fund  knew of problems at Madoff’s operations when they marketed the vehicle to investors.

*They are also looking at the timing of the resignation of Manuel EcheverrÃ­a, who The Wall Street Journal said presided over the Optimal fund while it built its relationship with Madoff. He left the bank on June 30, 2008 after 19 years there. Five colleagues also quit at the same time.* (ABANDON SHIP!  )

The investigation is also looking into the methods used by Banco Santander to recruit investors for the Optimal fund.  While the funds were meant for wealthy private banking clients, Santander branch managers reportedly channeled customers with money from property sales or inheritances to private banking salespeople, who convinced them to sink their money into the Optimal Strategic US Equity Fund.  These investors were often of modest means.  They included a former street vendor who was convinced to invest more than $400,000 in lottery winnings in the Optimal fund.  That client had to return to street vending after Santander lost his winnings.


----------



## GumbyLearner (28 January 2009)

Two more arrested for Madoffian type schemes!
Notice the eponyms have begun with Madoff-like and Mini-Madoff. 

Wow the SEC has done so well. I mean how could have they known? 

Anyone care to guess how many more will be arrested?

*Long Island has its very own 'Madoff,' feds charge*

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/01/26/2009-01-26_li_has_its_very_own_madoff_feds_charge.html

The head of a Long Island investment firm, who the feds think is a Bernie Madoff-like swindler, surrendered last night after eluding authorities for most of the day.

Nicholas Cosmo, 37, crafted a Ponzi scheme that could cost his investors as much as $130 million, authorities said. Other estimates put the losses around $400 million. 

*Missing Florida 'mini Madoff' broker turns himself in: report*
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hQGLsZaV8zGQ5FE4njV6GCT-nTUA

MIAMI (AFP) ”” A US investor accused of scamming clients out of millions of dollars in what is being called a "mini Madoff" affair turned himself in to the FBI in Florida Tuesday after going missing for nearly two weeks, local media said citing law enforcement.

Arthur Nadel was charged with fraud by the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) in mismanaging millions of dollars in investment funds from his firm in Sarasota, along Florida's Gulf Coast, according to the Sarasota Herald Tribune.

He turned himself in to the FBI early Tuesday, when agents began interrogating the 76-year-old hedge fund manager of Scoop Management, Inc who disappeared January 14, the paper cited law enforcement officials as saying.

Last week the SEC said Nadel was accused of fraudulently operating six hedge funds claiming to manage 342 million dollars, but the funds were actually worth less than one million dollars.


----------



## Aussiejeff (28 January 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Two more arrested for Madoffian type schemes!
> Notice the eponyms have begun with Madoff-like and Mini-Madoff.
> 
> Wow the SEC has done so well. I mean how could have they known?
> ...




If the Authorities keep shaking the Mega Money Tree hard enough and long enough, so-o-o many PonziApes will fall out (clutching wads of cash) that the Tree will be left bare....

Mebbe it would better to leave some of 'em hidden in the upper canopy, to provide some degree of "shadiness" for the rest of us sorry scum burning up in the harsh glare of reality. :angry:


----------



## GumbyLearner (28 January 2009)

Private clients get a win from Madoff-related scandal 

*Santander Says 2008 Profit Declined on Madoff-Related Charge *By Charles Penty

Jan. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Banco Santander SA, Spain’s biggest bank, said profit fell in 2008 after it took a charge of 350 million euros ($464 million) related to the alleged Madoff fraud. 

Santander earned 8.88 billion euros ($11.8 billion) last year, or 2 percent less than the previous year’s profit of 9.06 billion euros, the bank said in a filing to regulators today. The bank missed an estimate given in June by Chairman Emilio Botin, who said the bank expected to earn at least 10 billion euros. 

The bank said it would pay a final 2008 dividend of 25.7 euro cents per share. 

Santander added 45 cents, or 7.8 percent, to 6.20 euros as of 12:34 p.m. in Madrid trading. 

*The bank, which yesterday said it would pay 1.38 billion euros to compensate private banking clients hit by the alleged Madoff fraud with preferred shares, will release full details of results Feb. 5. *


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## GumbyLearner (5 February 2009)

Whistleblower Markopoulos finishes testimony to Congress committee today
Markopoulos stated 

“If you flew the entire S.E.C. staff to Fenway Park, they wouldn’t be able to find first base.” 

Update

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/live-blogging-the-houses-madoff-hearing/

Live on C-Span now

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN3_wm.aspx


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## GumbyLearner (5 February 2009)

Markopolous believes that there are 14 total feeder funds that he and his crew have identified. He stated today that there 12 of the 14 based in France and Switzerland are lying low at present and have not made their losses public yet.


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## GumbyLearner (5 February 2009)

Rep. Ackerman goes off at the SEC...

Wheres the popcorn?


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## basilio (5 February 2009)

> 1:40 p.m. | “You’ve told us nothing”: A steaming and yelling Mr. Ackerman blasts the S.E.C. “I am frustrated beyond belief. We are talking to ourselves and you are pretending to be here. You’ve told us nothing. What the heck went on? What went wrong? One guy with a few friends and helpers found this fraud over a decade. You guys couldn’t find your backside with two hands when the lights are on. You have totally failed in your mission.”




Just had to post this little piece from the Madoff hearing. Rest of the story is also enlightening.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/live-blogging-the-houses-madoff-hearing/ (as posted by Gumby)


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## Aussiejeff (5 February 2009)

Huh?

Somebody madeoff with the Madoff thread?

All I get when I click on the thread link for the latest post is WayneL's ruddy atavar thumbnail... LOL

I should have known.


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## GumbyLearner (6 February 2009)

It would be great to hear a detailed analysis of Peter Schiff on the Made-off Ponzi Scheme. 

I know in many of his interviews he states that Wall Street needs "less regulation" and Government should "get out of the way". He has also said on many occasions that Wall St and the American economy is "a giant Ponzi scheme", and "the free market is capable of regulating itself".

If this is the case, where does Schiff draw the line between obsequious butt-licking regulators who are like a bunch of timid wet shivering poodles and the honest guys out their like Mr.Markopolous who are more than willing to put their necks on the line for the benefit of investors (this guy has the biggest balls of anyone I have ever seen since I began investing in the market 10 years ago). Rather than tout books over the airwaves! Ka-ching!

I have noticed he has paid little more than lip-service or "sound-byte" snippets to these issues.

Peter Schiff predicted the crash without question but has certainly suffered great losses with regard to his emphasis on commodities (except gold ).

Does Schiff actually believe that the system can naturally govern itself?
I know he was an Economic adviser for Ron Paul's campaign for the White House. But surely he can't be serious?

I wonder how many of his own clients or IF his own portfolio is tied up in Made-off or Madoffian type schemes.

Just a recipe for anarchy by the looks of things! JMO 

Markopolous starts at about the 12 minute mark (Even the pollies seem shocked by his detailed, thorough and honest analysis of the fraud) 

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/watch.aspx?MediaId=HP-A-15082


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## GumbyLearner (7 February 2009)

*SEC says magnitude of Ponzi schemes growing*

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE5154QR20090206

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The frequency of Ponzi schemes is not increasing but the magnitude of the frauds is, a Securities and Exchange Commission official said on Friday.

The SEC has been under intense scrutiny for not uncovering the alleged $50 billion fraud carried out by former Nasdaq Chairman Bernard Madoff, who is accused of running a massive Ponzi scheme for years.

Donald Hoerl, director of the SEC's Denver office, said the agency has filed about 70 Ponzi cases in the last two years and has filed four cases since Madoff was charged in early December.

"That's not a dramatic upswing in terms of the number of cases," said Hoerl, speaking at the Practising Law Institute's annual SEC Speaks conference. "What is different is the magnitude of the Ponzi schemes."

Ponzi schemes involve frauds in which early investors are paid with money from later investors.

Hoerl said the SEC's recent Ponzi scheme cases involve staggering amounts of money. In late January, the agency charged then-missing fund manager Arthur Nadel with defrauding investors at six Florida-based hedge funds.

The SEC said Nadel provided false information to investors about the funds' returns and overstated the value of the investments by $300 million.

"The magnitude of these schemes serves as a reminder to us we need to continue our focus in this area," Hoerl said.


What the **** would they know anyway? 

They could'nt even detect this one until the scam was rampant. The SEC should setup an office in Geneva if it is really serious about the Made-off scheme. I'm sure there are many cashed up opportunities that they could DECIDE not to pursue over in Yodel-yodel-lay-e-who land


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## GumbyLearner (7 February 2009)

*SEC chief says agency to act like "hair is on fire"*

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE51548J20090206

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The new head of the Securities and Exchange Commission took steps on Friday to reinvigorate the agency's policing of Wall Street, two days after a congressional hearing chastised SEC investigators for failing to uncover Bernard Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud.

*"I like to tell the staff we are going to act like our hair is on fire,"* SEC Chairman Mary Schapiro told reporters after an appearance at a conference.

It was interesting to hear from Mr.Markopolous mid-week. 

In testimony before the Congress, Mr. Markopolos tore the SEC to pieces, effectively accusing them of being both incompetent and "bought off" at the same time. These are the people who are supposed to look out for the rules - for the investor and the common man - so that swindles and frauds don't go on without detection and punishment. One of the best quotes from that testimony was:

Asked by a committee member to compare the two agencies failings, *Markopolos said, "I never thought the SEC was corrupt... FINRA is definitely in bed with the industry." Asked later by Rep. Kanjorski about those comments as well as which one Markopolos thought was better, "a corrupt regulator or an incompetent one," Markopolos answered, "I'd give the SEC an A+ for incompetence and FINRA an A+ for corruption."*

That's special. Let's not forget that Ms. Shapiro, who ran FINRA, is President Obama's nominee for head of the SEC. We are thus, from Markopolos' point of view, replacing an incompetent regulatory chief with a corrupt one. That's JUST what we need.

For more than ten years, these clowns ignored a skilled professional who gave them plenty of hard evidence that was trivially-easy to verify. All they had to do is head over to the OEX options contracts and have a look - were there enough traded to make Madoff's strategy possible or not? The answer was "not" but nobody looked.

Maybe Mary Schapiro should talk someone who knows what it's really like to have had your hair on fire. 

Smooth Criminal by MJ


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## GumbyLearner (8 February 2009)

Doo u fink maybee fey maid a mizsteak?

*SEC 'illiteracy' to blame for Madoff failings*

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2af2c04c-f326-11dd-abe6-0000779fd2ac.html

The losses linked to Bernard Madoff may be closer to $15bn-$25bn rather than the $50bn the New York broker allegedly told US investigators, according to Harry Markopolos, a former money manager and long-time Madoff critic.

Mr Markopolos, who tried for nine years to expose Mr Madoff, told a congressional hearing yesterday that staff incompetence on the part of the US Securities and Exchange Commission was partly to blame for failing to bring a case against Mr Madoff earlier.

"I gift-wrapped and delivered the largest Ponzi scheme in history to them," he said. Most officials "did not understand . . . the 29 red flags that I handed them".

"The SEC securities lawyers, if only through their investigative ineptitude and financial illiteracy, colluded to maintain large frauds such as the one to which Madoff later confessed," Mr Markopolos said.


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## Aussiejeff (18 February 2009)

...and the ongoing Ponzi fallout continues unabated ....



> US authorities charged Texas billionaire Allen Stanford and three of his companies with "massive ongoing fraud" on Tuesday as federal agents swooped in on Stanford's US headquarters.
> 
> In a complaint filed in federal court in Dallas, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) accused the cricket-loving Stanford and two other top executives at Stanford Financial Group of fraudulently selling $US8 billion in high-yield certificates of deposit.




http://business.theage.com.au/busin...with-massive-ongoing-fraud-20090218-8ahx.html

Not to worry. The news can only get worse.


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## GumbyLearner (18 February 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> ...and the ongoing Ponzi fallout continues unabated ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It looks like any involvement with cricket is no pre-requisite for financial success or sound financial investment. Just ask people who invested with Storm Financial (Andrew Symonds, John Buchanan),Maxen Developments (Craig McDermott) or now 20/20 creator Sir Allen Scamford.

Dodgy!


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## basilio (18 February 2009)

If Stanford has been selling $8 bill of dodgy bank certificates of deposit then there will some very sick  conservative institutions that are supposed to invest their funds in "cash" . That means our super funds, Councils,  possibly banks and many private companies.  I fear there will some dramatic follow on effects. It surprises me that we haven't yet seen the impact of the Modoff scam (or maybe no one wants to say it out loud..) on such institutions.

$8,000,000,000-not small change


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## juw177 (18 February 2009)

http://www.stanfordfinancial.com/business_overview


> Stanford has over $50 billion in assets under management or advisement.




$8 billion of dodgy certificates? What about the other $42 billion?


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## basilio (19 February 2009)

$50 billion in assets under management  : Do we have another contender for the Madoff award? 

Had a read of The Eagle which is Stanfords creative puff  piece. Looks impressive, says all the right things with just the right tone. Even includes a story on how the very wealthy should educate their heirs to handle money. (We are talking serious wealth here..) I can see how and where they scored their $50 billion.
Salient points

1) This is a privately owned company with one shareholder Alan Stamford
2) Quote from fine print in The Eagle.



> The Stanford Financial group is not a legal entity. It is an international network of independent affiliated companies located throughout North America, Europe, Latin America and the Caribbeans.




There will be some very poor billionaires today.


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## Aussiejeff (19 February 2009)

basilio said:


> There will be some very poor billionaires today.




Yes. Going from 50 Billion to only a few Billion would be enough to make anyone suicidal, wouldn't it?


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## GumbyLearner (20 February 2009)

Oh well at least the powers that be in Langley and the Madeoff mobsters  must feel safe with the pissweak-fluff novelty stories like this one.

*Aussie's smashing Madoff toy makes waves in US *

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/19/2496076.htm

*Dominating the press*

Mr Warring is referring to the New York Toy Fair, which is the largest in the western hemisphere and attended by all the major international toy companies.

"There's thousands of exhibitors and it's spread over several levels of this enormous convention area that makes anything that we've got in Australia look like a garden shed," Mr Warring said.

"What's bizarre about the whole thing is you've got these massive companies like Mattel and Hasbro and all these other ones that are big, publicly listed companies that go to this toy show and they've got booths the size of Afghanistan.

*"And here's this idiot from Australia sitting there in the corner with this little Smash-Me Bernie thing, and it's dominating the press - it's just unbelievable."*


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## noirua (23 February 2009)

90-year-old forced back to work:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7901625.stm


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## GumbyLearner (3 March 2009)

*Ruth Madoff Says Her $62 Million ‘Unrelated’ to Fraud*

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWVQJMrRh7Qc&refer=home

March 2 (Bloomberg) -- Ruth Madoff, the wife of accused fraudster Bernard Madoff, said *she owns a Manhattan apartment, $45 million in bonds, and $17 million in cash that are “unrelated” to her husband’s alleged Ponzi scheme. *

Looks like Madeoff's missus, Ruthless Madeoff,  has been on the blower to
Ray William's (former HIH dodge-merchant) missus, Rita Williams, educating her about how to keep the stolen cash!

http://www.crikey.com.au/Business/20080115-Ray-Williams-cops-a-monstrous-media-mauling.html


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## GumbyLearner (3 March 2009)

Markopolos videos addressing the politicians

Markopolos: I gift wrapped and delivered the largest Ponzi scheme in history to the SEC


Markopolos to Organized Crime: "I'm The Good Guy Here!"


I wonder if BO will award Mr. Markopolos a medal of Freedom?


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## basilio (3 March 2009)

> Markopolos videos addressing the politicians




Great, great presentation re Madoff scam and the refusal of SEC to investigate it over 9 years. Great point at the end regarding the effective  failure of all the investment banks under the watch of the SEC.  *And effectively it is our financial system that has been bankrupted and we, personally, will inevitably pay the price.*

Thanks for the post Gumby..


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## GumbyLearner (6 March 2009)

basilio said:


> Great, great presentation re Madoff scam and the refusal of SEC to investigate it over 9 years. Great point at the end regarding the effective  failure of all the investment banks under the watch of the SEC.  *And effectively it is our financial system that has been bankrupted and we, personally, will inevitably pay the price.*
> 
> Thanks for the post Gumby..




That is the clear and present danger to the banking system. Banks not taking appropriate care as to investigate the capacity of borrowers to repay or investigate the instruments/vehicles/schemes/arrangements/structures/scams as to where to place their investments.
Whether they were CDOs, SIVs, CDSs etc.. or just plain old Ponzi with no SEC oversight to protect themselves or their clients.

Anyway, back to the character of the Big Kahuna!
I wonder what kind of wardrobe he possessed. It would be great to findout in retrospect. 

*Made-off was a 'cold-hearted control freak'*
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article5844381.ece

Bernard Madoff was a cold-hearted control freak who ripped off friends’ widows weeks after their funerals and ruled his family with fear, according to a revealing new report published today. 

Vanity Fair also fleshes out claims that Mr Madoff attempted to set up a new $500 million investment fund a few weeks before his December 11 arrest for allegedly running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme. 

To research the article in this month's Vanity Fair, Mark Seal, who had himself attempted to invest with Mr Madoff, travelled to Aspen and Palm Beach to interview the social sets of wealthy Jewish investors ripped off by the former fund manager. 

Some investors had remortgaged their houses to place more money in Bernard L Madoff Investment Securities, leaving them now without any money or home.


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## Glen48 (6 March 2009)

Made Off is a genius one of a kind with a brilliant mind just like all the other great people out there only trouble his mind didn't help the goodies.


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## Macquack (6 March 2009)

Glen48 said:


> Made Off is a genius one of a kind with a brilliant mind just like all the other great people out there only trouble his mind didn't help the goodies.




Madoff is not a genius, he is a thief.

His greatest attribute was he had no conscious, which comes in handy when you are shafting someone.


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## GumbyLearner (10 March 2009)

*Sorkin: The Ponzi Saver?* *That's "regulation" for ya, made in America!*

http://bankimplode.com/viewnews/2009-03-09_SorkinThePonziSaver.html

It is clear to us that this Sorkin fellow has a specialty: keeping semi-official-looting Ponzi schemes from ever being truly "busted" open by regulators.

And now he's about to do it (again) for Madoff.

You really gotta give them some credit for the sheer gall:

In 1992, the SEC filed a suit against Avellino & Bienes charging them with selling $440 million of unregistered securities to 3200 investors. Although the SEC knew the money had gone to Madoff, their complaint referred only to an unnamed broker. The SEC said at the time they felt they were looking at a Ponzi scheme.

Then in steps Ira Sorkin, still at Squadron Ellenoff, and in the precise move made in the Towers Financial matter, offers to return all the money. Except the money wasn’t all returned. Behind the scenes, clients were simply allowed to sign agreements directly with Madoff and continue receiving those steady, stellar returns of 13 to 20 per cent according to lawyers representing defrauded clients. The SEC was somehow persuaded to drop the case in exchange for an agreement that Avellino & Bienes would shut down their firm and pay a fine.

That's right -- when the SEC figured it was a Ponzi scheme (to the benefit of Madoff), they allowed a settlement to be implemented that resulted in Madoff keeping the capital... and paying returns out from the Ponzi scheme.

In other words, the SEC (at Sorkin's direction) abetted the continuance of the Ponzi scheme, by buying off the clients with *guaranteed* returns from the same Ponzi scheme.

That's "regulation" for ya, made in America!


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## GumbyLearner (12 March 2009)

*A History of Family Secrets, Madoff-Style * 

_How did Bernie Madoff fool his kin? Ask Genghis Khan and Jesse James._

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB123639108676259171.html?mod=googlenews_barrons

HOW WOULD IT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE FOR Bernie Madoff's wife, and sons and nieces and colleagues and senior employees, not to know that he was running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme for so many years, as he reportedly has admitted doing? This question has been broached many times recently, as the media casts reckless aspersions on anyone unlucky enough to be related to or in the employ of the apparent scoundrel.

As usual, the mean and biased media is being unfair.

A look at history shows some famous figures, including a couple who would make a Ponzi scammer look like Mother Theresa, went about their business without disclosing what that business was to those closest to them. No, their loved ones or confidantes weren't stupid, gullible or willfully ignorant. The stratagems worked because these guys were so clever that no one could have hacked through their tapestries of deception.

CONSIDER GENGHIS KHAN. "He always said he was a precision-tools salesman," is how Ogadai Khan explained his ignorance of the atrocities inflicted on civilizations stretching from southern China to western Hungary by his father. Indeed, not until the Great Khan died in 1227 did his children learn that he had killed more people and put more cities to the sword and did more pillaging than anyone who had ever lived. (He also found time for what passed for romance among his crew; some geneticists believe that at least one half of one percent of all males now living carry a gene passed down by this very potent warrior.)

"He was always on the road, and when he came home he would just go on and on about how much it cost to stable his yak or rent a yurt for the night in Samarkand," continued Ogadai, his successor. "We just naturally assumed that he was in retail."

A similar situation was apparent in the post-Civil War American West, where Jesse James kept his family in the dark about the real source of his income.

"Jesse always told people he was an impresario," is how Robert Ford, who shot the notorious bank robber and murderer in the back of the head, would later recall. "He would tell his wife that he was out on the road booking banjo smackdowns in Deadwood and Dodge City, which gave him an excuse for being away from home so much and for always turning up with suitcases full of cash. Also, he never used the name Jesse James around them. His family thought his name was Snuffy McGillicuddy."

OR CONSIDER A MORE MODERN CASE, involving not a criminal, but rather a respected general: Erwin Rommel, commander of the Panzer divisions that wreaked havoc in North Africa in the early 1940s. Not wishing to let his family know the danger to which he was exposed in battling the Allies, he "deliberately filled the den with stuffed giraffes and photos of King Tut, so we all assumed that he spent so much time in North Africa because he really liked it down there," recalls his trusted accountant, Fritz Adelhoffer, now 98.

"He also said the desert air was good for his sinuses. Not until I got an angry letter from a dry cleaner in El Alamein asking when 'Mister Desert Fox' was going to pick up the 20 leather jackets he left behind in 1943 did I begin to suspect that he might be the head of the Afrika Korps. Gott im Himmel! I always thought he was in import-export."

Perhaps the most famous example of a renowned individual who succeeded in keeping his kin and friends in the dark was Attila the Hun. After his death in the year 453, all 356 of the wives of this unreconstructed enemy of mankind said that they had no idea whatsoever that they had been living with the Scourge of God.

"When we would ask him why he was always disappearing into the steppes with 150,000 horsemen armed to the teeth, he would tell us that he belonged to a re-enactors' club and they were going off to the Urals to simulate the Siege of Troy," explained his favorite wife, Barbetta, a former Thracian courtesan. "The truth is, those guys drank so much we were happy to see them go. It was the only way you could get any peace around here."

THE KEY QUESTION IS WHETHER THOSE closest to Attila, Genghis Khan, Erwin Rommel and Jesse James deliberately looked the other way and pretended not to see the obvious.

"Let's put it this way," said Kublai Khan, who was only an infant when his grandfather Genghis breathed his last. "When Gramps would come back to Ulan Bator with a couple of dozen decapitated heads impaled on spears, I think some in the family started to suspect he might not be your average traveling salesman. But Genghis would always say, 'I won those skulls in a craps game. You got a problem with that?' That shut them up in a hurry."

Perhaps the most amazing story involves Charles Ponzi, who, after serving five years in prison for his original postal-reply coupon scam, set up another scheme involving overvalued Florida real estate. It was unwittingly bankrolled by his third wife, a Florida woman who forked over her life's savings. "I thought it was a different Charles Ponzi," she later lamented. "He led me to believe he worked for the SEC."


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## Aussiejeff (13 March 2009)

*clink*


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## Solly (13 March 2009)

Here's big Bernie's statement he read in the federal court as he pleaded guilty to orchestrating a massive Ponzi scheme.....

Thanks to TSG.....


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0312091madoff1.html


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## sassa (14 March 2009)

> Madoff is the sacrificial lamb. Madoff's jail cell is supposed to say to you "Look, fraud will not be tolerated! See what happens!". It makes for great TV, but right now as Mr. Madoff sits in his cell:
> -Mark to market accounting is about to be suspended; I argue a new accounting trick with full endorsement of the FED/Treasury/SEC will also be unveiled
> -The investigations stop now. No more going after the fraudsters that brought you mortgage backed securities based on zero value loans, no checking on Merrill book cooking, no more asking why AIG thought writing CDS insurance nobody could ever cover was done
> 
> ...




http://www.economicdisconnect.blogspot.com/


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## Glen48 (14 March 2009)

When Bernie get out the recession should have bottomed.
I heard G W is trying to get money into Made Off schemes.


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## GumbyLearner (19 March 2009)

Ponzi scheme? What Ponzi scheme claims Made Off bean-counter? :iamwithst

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hVC2ZrjuxVyaPm-P6e26rr7ywOzw

NEW YORK (AFP) ”” The accountant who allegedly rubber-stamped Wall Street conman Bernard Madoff's financial statements surrendered to authorities Wednesday and was charged with fraud.

David Friehling, 49, faces a sentence of up to 105 years in prison if convicted for his alleged role in helping Madoff cheat thousands of investors out of billions of dollars.

He was freed on a 2.5 million dollar bail and ordered to surrender his passport.

*The accountant is not accused of knowing about Madoff's Ponzi scheme *-- in which money from new clients was stolen to pay dividends to existing clients -- *but of certifying faked accounts.*

"He is charged with deceiving investors by falsely certifying that he audited the financial statements of Mr Madoff's business," said Acting United States Attorney Lev Dassin in New York.

"Mr Friehling's deception helped foster the illusion that Mr Madoff legitimately invested his clients' money."


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## GumbyLearner (25 March 2009)

Madoff’s 19th Century Forerunner Shows Flaws of Rules 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=special_report&sid=aBj2XKSxQ138

March 20 (Bloomberg) -- John Sadleir, a British member of parliament, newspaper publisher, bank and railroad chairman, lay down under a bush on London’s Hampstead Heath and sipped poison prussic acid from a silver jug. 

His suicide on Feb. 16, 1856, exposed a fraud that would wipe out at least three companies and cause “ruin and misery and disgrace to thousands -- aye to tens of thousands,” as Sadleir correctly predicted in a final letter to a friend. 

Charles Dickens, Anthony Trollope and at least three other Victorian novelists used Sadleir as the inspiration for fictional villains. And in a note that foreshadowed the response to Bernard Madoff, 70, who last week pleaded guilty to defrauding investors of as much as $65 billion, politicians found him an inspiration for increased regulation. 

“Whenever frauds like Sadleir’s or Madoff’s are exposed, people clamor for government regulation,” said George Robb, a professor at William Patterson University in Wayne, New Jersey, and author of “White-Collar Crime in Modern England: Financial Fraud and Business Morality 1845-1929” (Cambridge University Press, 1992). “The problem with regulation is it’s always reactive, they solve the last scandal. In 10 years people forget and crooks figure out a way to circumvent it.” 



Notice how the Professor makes no mention of the history of the Indoor Management Rule of Corporations and the historic 'put on inquiry' test that lenders have traditionally been subject to when banks go to courts to retrieve the money they loaned. 

Regulation is reactive to a degree but not in this financial crisis. The banks are very much architects of their own demise IMHO. Especially when many banks have abandoned or forgotten the centuries old standard conventions of merchantile banking.


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## pj2105 (25 March 2009)

I'm still amazed he could pull it off for so long!  His piramid scheme went on for ages and he only got found out because of the GFC (Global Financial Crisis).

Piramid schemes are like playing musical chairs...just make sure you get out first when the music stops.  For him to be able to play the music for so long and for huge amounts of money as well and only get caught really because of the GFC is amazing.


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## GumbyLearner (25 March 2009)

pj2105 said:


> I'm still amazed he could pull it off for so long!  His piramid scheme went on for ages and he only got found out because of the GFC (Global Financial Crisis).
> 
> Piramid schemes are like playing musical chairs...just make sure you get out first when the music stops.  For him to be able to play the music for so long and for huge amounts of money as well and only get caught really because of the GFC is amazing.




Your right that is astounding in itself pj.

Consider these factors though, I think they have certainly helped Mr.Made-off.

1. You were on the board of the NASDAQ.

2. Your son used to work at the SEC.

3. Your daughter started banging one of the Senior members of the SEC and then married him.

4. Many cases of fraud that were proven in the courts and that prima facie evidence associated from those cases pointed to your brokerage operation were ignored. 

5. A rather 'humungous' complaint is lodged against you in 2005 and I don't mean the 'humungous' (you know the baddie with the metallic Jason-like mask) from Mad Max 2. But a complaint that raised numerous red flags about the activities of Made-off & Co.

6. Just to add to 2. the new boss appointed by Obama of the SEC is the same person that gave your son a job at the SEC. 

I just wonder what BS will be edited from the movie version.
Hopefully it won't stink of hypocrisy like the kickbacks Senator Chris Dodd received from AIG lobby groups prior to Obama's election and the subsequent handouts they received from Mr.Dodd after he wrote them into law. And then demanded AIG pay them back. What a player!  

I suppose the old adage of it's better to be seen doing the right thing rather than actually doing the right thing is all that applies here.


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## GumbyLearner (25 March 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Your right that is astounding in itself pj.
> 
> Consider these factors though, I think they have certainly helped Mr.Made-off.
> 
> ...




Just to correct point 3 above, it's not his daughter but his niece.

Still a game the whole family can play though.


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## GumbyLearner (26 March 2009)

Parody Trailer


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## GumbyLearner (2 April 2009)

Madoff 'assets' seized 

*U.S. Marshals seize Madoff home, boats in Florida*

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE5305UF20090402

PALM BEACH, Florida (Reuters) - U.S. Marshals on Wednesday seized a $9.4 million luxury home in Florida belonging to disgraced Wall Street financier Bernard Madoff and his wife after earlier confiscating two of their leisure boats.

There was no one living inside at the time as the federal agents moved into the two-story property at 410 North Lake Way, Palm Beach, set amid carefully manicured lawns and hedges on Florida's Intracoastal Waterway.

"We are securing the house, changing all the locks on the house ... we are taking a complete inventory," Barry Golden of the U.S. Marshals Service told Reuters.

Madoff, a 70-year-old former Nasdaq stock market chairman, has been charged with operating the biggest investment fraud on Wall Street, cheating private investors, charities and pension funds out of an estimated $65 billion.

The U.S. Marshals swooped down on the Madoff's Florida winter getaway after seizing two recreation boats belonging to them.


----------



## GumbyLearner (15 April 2009)

Bring on the eponyms

http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2009/04/kennedy-it-looks-almost-madoffian.html

Heavens, it looks almost Madoffian! Just think about it. If you and I could issue a loan to our neighbor, then proceed to buy it before he even reaches for his wallet, what would the eventual value be down the street? What, the neighbor might ask, were we doing?


----------



## GumbyLearner (7 May 2009)

This little piggy went to the market
This little piggy stayed home
This little piggy ate roast beef
This little piggy isn't kosher

Can't wait for the bull**** movie 

*Madoff firm a "piggy bank" for family: court papers*
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN061120090506
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Swindler Bernard Madoff's family were enriched by millions from his firm, which also paid their country club memberships and salaries of boat captains, housekeepers and others who did not work for the company, according to new court documents.

The papers provide more details than previously disclosed about Wall Street's biggest fraud amounting to about $65 billion. The documents were filed on Tuesday evening by the court-appointed trustee winding down the firm.

Trustee Irving Picard argues that the personal wealth and business of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC (BLMIS) are inseparable and any proceeds are due to his defrauded customers. He is seeking to consolidate cases in his global effort to recover assets.

For decades "BLMIS was Bernie Madoff and Bernie Madoff was BLMIS, each the alter ego of the other" Picard said in the filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York.

"This entanglement permitted Madoff, at his whim and desire, to engage in innumerable financial transactions wherein he essentially used BLMIS as his personal 'piggy bank' having BLMIS pay for his lavish lifestyle and that of his family.

"Madoff used BLMIS to siphon funds which were, in reality, other people's money, for his personal use and the benefit of his inner circle. Plain and simple, he stole it."

Madoff's lawyer Ira Lee Sorkin declined comment.


----------



## esolano (24 June 2009)

anyone what the Madoff Affair on SBS last night? Scary!


----------



## jono1887 (24 June 2009)

esolano said:


> anyone what the Madoff Affair on SBS last night? Scary!




Yea... he built it up from the start for it to be secretive, but you'd think that the board looking into his company wouldve followed the list of clues that they were sent. But apparently not...

Its amazing how the system would've worked though, billions of dollars being transacted everyday fraudulently. How would he have made up all of those trades? A computer program to generate profitable trades from previous data? Wouldn't the IT staff have noticed anything


----------



## esolano (24 June 2009)

Yeah I think some did notice but were too scared to speak. His layers are asking for his sentence to be only 10 years. Sentencing on the 29th June.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (24 June 2009)

It was interesting to note how small it all started, clients only investing $5K 35 years ago all the way to last year with several royal families throwing in billions. 

Classic snowball effect.


----------



## esolano (24 June 2009)

A classic example of people's greed. Throwing billions with nothing to back it up.


----------



## GumbyLearner (24 June 2009)

esolano said:


> A classic example of people's greed. Throwing billions with nothing to back it up.




For sure and don't forget cronyism, US Government corruption etc..

I hear Madoff has requested a 12 year jail term. I always thought it was judge and/or jury that decided these things?


----------



## Krusty the Klown (25 June 2009)

How about 12 years in one of those US jails with the Neo Nazi, Latino and LA street gangs on the National Geograhic channel, with him right in the middle, being used as shower soap.

He would be the girlfriend of some 6 1/2 foot, 200 kg skinhead named Leroy.

It would make a very popular documentary series.


----------



## jono1887 (25 June 2009)

Madoff - Day 1 in Jail


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 June 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Madoff - Day 1 in Jail




LOL.

Good one jono.

So, by day 14, he should pwn the entire US prison system?


----------



## Aussiejeff (30 June 2009)

HA!HA!HA!

THE JOKES ON *YOU*, MADEOFF 

12 years you wanted??

Cop that, you *$cum$ucking $cumbag*. 

[size=+1]Rot in [size=+2]hell[/size][/size].

Given this glimmer of precedent justice in the waste-lands of the US financial system, I can only hope many other as-yet-undiscovered Ponzi Ba$tard$ now feel queasy enough to decide to "take matters into their own hands" and end their miserable existences.

Go on.

Do it you freak$. :angry:

You know it makes $en$e!!

PS: If only our own courts had the balls to deal in like fashion with the likes of Eddy Groves et all....?


----------



## gooner (30 June 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> HA!HA!HA!
> 
> THE JOKES ON *YOU*, MADEOFF
> 
> ...




I think it is fair to say that justice has been done. Hope this acts as a deterrent to others


----------



## lianeisme (30 June 2009)

This is great news 
Will he get a regular jail cell or a country club type jail?
However a majority of his older investors will never see any of their money and they have been royally bent over again.
Once was enough one would have thought 
The system of payouts to his victims is very floored indeed.


----------



## gooner (30 June 2009)

lianeisme said:


> This is great news
> Will he get a regular jail cell or a country club type jail?
> However a majority of his older investors will never see any of their money and they have been royally bent over again.
> Once was enough one would have thought
> The system of payouts to his victims is very floored indeed.




lianeisme

Are you suggesting the American taxpayer should fork out for rich investors who put their money into Madoff's hedge funds?  From my perspective, if you invest in "proprietary methods" in hedge funds and you lose money that is tough -  you should have kept it in cash instead


----------



## jono1887 (30 June 2009)

lianeisme said:


> This is great news
> Will he get a regular jail cell or a country club type jail?
> However a majority of his older investors will never see any of their money and they have been royally bent over again.
> Once was enough one would have thought
> The system of payouts to his victims is very floored indeed.




He owes investors $65bn and only $13bn i think is unaccounted for, so I'm assuming after all his assets have been consolidated, taken over then liquidated, his investors will still receive 80% of their investments back.

Sure he was a fraud and the money was laundered, but he didn't just go out and spend $65bn. Most of it is still there and recoverable.


----------



## jono1887 (30 June 2009)

gooner said:


> lianeisme
> 
> Are you suggesting the American taxpayer should fork out for rich investors who put their money into Madoff's hedge funds?  From my perspective, if you invest in "proprietary methods" in hedge funds and you lose money that is tough -  you should have kept it in cash instead




Exactly, How can those investors be so naive and blame the feeder funds and Madoff.... if they're not checking their statements or diversifying their investments, its quite simply their fault for investing their entire life-savings into a single hedge-fund. Even not having investments in different financial products or asset classes is incredibly stupid!!!


----------



## Krusty the Klown (30 June 2009)

Has anybody heard if he is going to appeal the sentence?


----------



## jono1887 (30 June 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> Has anybody heard if he is going to appeal the sentence?




why wouldn't.... no one wants to spend 150 years in prison :


----------



## Macquack (30 June 2009)

jono1887 said:


> He owes investors $65bn and *only $13bn *i think is unaccounted for, so I'm assuming after all his assets have been consolidated, taken over then liquidated, his investors will still receive 80% of their investments back.
> 
> Sure he was a fraud and the money was laundered, but he didn't just go out and spend $65bn. Most of it is still there and recoverable.




30 June, 2009
Larry Neumeister And Tom Hays, Associated Press Writers 
"In court Monday, the 71-year-old Madoff admitted it was impossible for him to excuse deeds that U.S. District Judge Denny Chin noted had cost investors *$13.2 billion by conservative estimates *and *$50 billion by the estimate Madoff gave his sons *in December."

I will go with Madoffs estimate, he should know.

If investors were going to get 80% back, Madoff would not be getting 150 years in the clink.


----------



## Buckeroo (30 June 2009)

I'm in awe - how this scam could go undetected since 1995?

Yep he's guilty, but so is the whole US financial system. I'd be extremely careful about putting money anywhere near the US and I'd say China is starting to think the same.

Cheers


----------



## Sean K (2 July 2009)

His wife didn't know anything about it.





*No evidence to charge Bernard Madoff's wife*
Amir Efrati | July 02, 2009 

Article from:  The Wall Street Journal 

FEDERAL investigators have concluded there is no physical evidence that Ruth Madoff, the wife of convicted swindler Bernard Madoff, actively participated or concealed her husband's fraud, according two people familiar with the matter.


----------



## Aussiejeff (2 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> Has anybody heard if he is going to appeal the sentence?




Appeal?

Oh, YES!

_The sentence was TOO LENIENT!!!_

"Your Honour,

A sentence of no less than 1,500 years with hard labour might be more appropriate."


Rot, ya ba$tid....


----------



## Temjin (2 July 2009)

The judge described him as "extraordinary evil".

I doubt it.

If he was "extraordinary", then what about the US government and their social security program?

Legendary evil?


----------



## jono1887 (2 July 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> Appeal?
> 
> Oh, YES!
> 
> ...




He's no less of a 'ba$tid' than those who were running the feeder funds, profiting from commissions and have lost nothing.... This blatant fraud could only have happened if everyone surrounding him and investing into him were pure idiots...


----------



## Sean K (2 July 2009)

This all could be a matter of scale.


Stealing $1.00 off a streat kid in Cuzco could be the same as $100 to a banker in NY.

Steal $100 from a kid in Cuzco and they are don't eat for a month.


The money lost here seems to be at the top of the pile, which means the money _they_ have stolen is down the tubes and they have to sell a Ferrari or two, to pay for the next plate of caviar, or three.  

Time to take a step back and look at life in perspective before feeling sorry for anyone swindled here. 

imo


----------



## Krusty the Klown (2 July 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> Appeal?
> 
> Oh, YES!
> 
> ...




Good perspective!!!


----------



## Krusty the Klown (2 July 2009)

kennas said:


> This all could be a matter of scale.
> 
> 
> Stealing $1.00 off a streat kid in Cuzco could be the same as $100 to a banker in NY.
> ...




Yes, it would be hard to imagine anybody who got swindled in this situation going hungry because of the money they lost.

The last statistic I heard was along the lines of at least 3 billion people on this planet exist on less than one $US per day!!!


----------



## insider (2 July 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> Appeal?
> 
> Oh, YES!
> 
> ...



I agree... If were a judge I would just 4 kicks reduce his sentence from 150 years to 149 years... Providing they appealed


----------



## awg (2 July 2009)

I read in the papers ( so it must be true)

that what he did is just put the money in the bank, so he would have earned bank interest.

it was not invested in any other manner

he did run a MM brokerage as a separate business

However he was fictitiously generating 15% returns.

that raises the question of what amount is in the bank accounts now.

From what I have previously read, much was withdrawn by investors, as they needed cash for other problems, and that is what bought him undone.

So presumably those that got out early are ok, but now there would be not much left for the rest.

It does make me wonder what the bank was thinking, if they did have $50 B cash from Madoff, they must have smelt a rat?


----------



## Krusty the Klown (2 July 2009)

awg said:


> It does make me wonder what the bank was thinking, if they did have $50 B cash from Madoff, they must have smelt a rat?




No way, they would have loved him. $50B in capital for them to use as they saw fit. 

Ask no questions and you don't get answers you don't want!!!!!


----------



## jono1887 (2 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> No way, they would have loved him. $50B in capital for them to use as they saw fit.
> 
> Ask no questions and you don't get answers you don't want!!!!!




Imagine the interest earnt on $50bn


----------



## Krusty the Klown (3 July 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Imagine the interest earnt on $50bn




Even 2% p.a. is $1Bn....

Nice piece of pocket change.....!!!!


----------



## Krusty the Klown (10 July 2009)

Bernie has decided not to appeal his 150 year sentence.

I find that quite surprising! 

He should have enough cash to launch a 50 year appeal.


----------



## jono1887 (11 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> Bernie has decided not to appeal his 150 year sentence.
> 
> I find that quite surprising!
> 
> He should have enough cash to launch a 50 year appeal.




hasnt all his assets been seized already?? I'm pretty sure he has nothing left... its all gonna get sold and get paid back to the people who invested in him.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (11 July 2009)

I reckon that somebody who was able to pull off a scam like that for so many years would have some big cash stash in the Caymans or the Bahamas or Swiss bank account.

Probably in a fake name or relative's name. I don't believe his wife will be living in poverty now either.


----------



## jono1887 (11 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> I reckon that somebody who was able to pull off a scam like that for so many years would have some big cash stash in the Caymans or the Bahamas or Swiss bank account.
> 
> Probably in a fake name or relative's name. I don't believe his wife will be living in poverty now either.




I guess so... but wouldn't that incriminate his wife or relatives as it would mean they would've known something suss was going on?


----------



## Macquack (11 July 2009)

jono1887 said:


> hasnt all his assets been seized already?? I'm *pretty sure he has nothing left*... its all gonna get sold and get paid back to the people who invested in him.



Jono, you are very trusting of Madoff's integrity.


Krusty the Klown said:


> I reckon that somebody who was able to pull off a scam like that for so many years would have some *big cash stash in the Caymans or the Bahamas or Swiss bank account*.
> 
> Probably in a fake name or relative's name. I don't believe his wife will be living in poverty now either.




Krusty is on the money.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (11 July 2009)

Macquack said:


> Krusty is on the money.




I just wish I was IN the money!!!


----------



## awg (11 July 2009)

This story has a way to go.

The IRS and SEA should be watching Madoffs sons like hawks

reminds me of a story i once heard about an old farmer on the north NSW coast, and his sons..old man finds out he has terminal cancer so decides to secure family finances with a large cannabis crop.

a low risk investment strategy under the circs

sons become very wealthy property investors ( allegedly)


----------



## pj2105 (12 July 2009)

The fact that he was able to pull it off for so long and he only really got caught because the the global financial crisis, not because the pyramid scheme was falling down on itself, I think is quite amazing and the main lesson to learn here is that 'nobody looks after your money better than you do.'


----------



## Solly (29 July 2009)

Big Bernie was surprised his $US65 billion ($78 billion) Ponzi scheme was not uncovered sooner, he said in his first interview since entering prison...

more here;

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25852605-31037,00.html


----------



## Solly (20 August 2009)

*"Book Really Does Tell All About Madoff's Mini-Madoff"*

(Caution article contains reference to small genitalia) 

More here from Bloomberg, 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aKMd6KBEnngE

and a bit more here,

http://gothamist.com/2009/08/19/book_really_does_tell_all_about_mad.php

Don't really know why I'm laughing so much
​


----------



## Krusty the Klown (21 August 2009)

So now we know the reasons why he did it ........


----------



## jono1887 (22 August 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> So now we know the reasons why he did it ........






> “Bernie had a very small penis,” she wrote. “Not only was it on the short side, it was small in circumference. That he was now pointing it out to me was telling. It clearly caused him great angst."




hahahaha... he was overcompensating :


----------



## Solly (25 September 2009)

*Prosecutors say half of Bernie Madoff's investors lost nothing in Ponzi scheme...........*

Because they withdrew more from their accounts than they contributed.

WTF.....?  

Read more here;

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/09/23/2009-09-23_50_of_madoff_investors_lost_nothing.html


----------



## NeuromanceR (25 September 2009)

Solly said:


> *Prosecutors say half of Bernie Madoff's investors lost nothing in Ponzi scheme...........*
> 
> Because they withdrew more from their accounts than they contributed.
> 
> WTF.....?




You don't believe this is possible?


----------



## Solly (25 September 2009)

NeuromanceR said:


> You don't believe this is possible?




I can't believe that half got their money out, I thought it would have been much lower. 

I now see it was a refined scam rather than a boiler room sting.


----------



## Solly (22 October 2009)

*Sex, drugs alleged in suit against Madoff associates*



> Bernard Madoff's investment firm had a "diversion-filled office environment" featuring a culture of "sexual deviance" and drug use, says a lawsuit filed Tuesday against companies that dealt with the Ponzi-scheme mastermind.
> 
> According to the suit, employees described "wild office parties sans spouses" featuring topless entertainers serving as waitresses, and sexual encounters on "their boss' sofa.




http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-madoff21-2009oct21,0,5713003.story

Looks like Big Bernie may have gotten a few things right in the financial advisory game, I can hear the face palm from Townsville from here.....


----------



## Krusty the Klown (23 October 2009)

Solly said:


> *Prosecutors say half of Bernie Madoff's investors lost nothing in Ponzi scheme...........*
> 
> Because they withdrew more from their accounts than they contributed.
> 
> ...




I can see the logic in that statement.

What they are saying is if an investor invested a $1M lump sum and over 20 years received income of over $1M from Bernie then they have got their money back - that's only 5% p.a. and Bernie was offering and paying 10-12% p.a.

Doesn't mean Bernie should be treated any different though.

And cold comfort to investors.


----------



## nomore4s (23 October 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> I can see the logic in that statement.
> 
> What they are saying is if an investor invested a $1M lump sum and over 20 years received income of over $1M from Bernie then they have got their money back - that's only 5% p.a. and Bernie was offering and paying 10-12% p.a.
> 
> ...




Provided you didn't reinvest the funds.

With a ponzi scheme it is the last ones in that get stung the hardest.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (23 October 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Provided you didn't reinvest the funds.
> 
> With a ponzi scheme it is the last ones in that get stung the hardest.




That's true, you would wonder why the prosecution, of all people, would make a statement like that.

What point does it serve? To make Bernie look less guilty?


----------



## nomore4s (23 October 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> That's true, you would wonder why the prosecution, of all people, would make a statement like that.
> 
> What point does it serve? To make Bernie look less guilty?




Yeah a bit bizarre. Also even if they had got the original investment amount back via dividend payments during the years you still lost the amount in the fund which is your money!

And any dividend payments would have had tax paid on them as well.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (23 October 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Yeah a bit bizarre. Also even if they had got the original investment amount back via dividend payments during the years you still lost the amount in the fund which is your money!
> 
> And any dividend payments would have had tax paid on them as well.




Also the opportunity cost of investing elsewhere and getting your principal back.


----------



## jono1887 (24 October 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Yeah a bit bizarre. Also even if they had got the original investment amount back via dividend payments during the years you still lost the amount in the fund which is your money!
> 
> And any dividend payments would have had tax paid on them as well.




Well not really.. that money in the fund is other peoples money that have been given to you as 'dividends'. So really the amount in the fund is not your money, its a fictitious number they have simply made up over the years.


----------



## GumbyLearner (24 October 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Well not really.. that money in the fund is other peoples money that have been given to you as 'dividends'. So really the amount in the fund is not your money, its a fictitious number they have simply made up over the years.




Well that's right MadeOff TM Ponzi involved a lot of recycling to initial contributors. Sort like an Amway gone bust.

Here's a MadeOff TM Calculator you can use to assess the damage. You can enter any parameters/variables to assess scam duration losses.  

http://www.editgrid.com/tnc/dave/BernieMadoffCalculator


----------



## nomore4s (24 October 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Well not really.. that money in the fund is other peoples money that have been given to you as 'dividends'. So really the amount in the fund is not your money, its a fictitious number they have simply made up over the years.




Yes but as you didn't know it was a ponzi scheme till it all blew up, you have still lost that money. It still has to be written off.


----------



## jono1887 (24 October 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Yes but as you didn't know it was a ponzi scheme till it all blew up, you have still lost that money. It still has to be written off.




I disagree, you might think that it is your money there, but in reality its a fictitious number... if you manage to get back your initial investment plus a little on top, you've still profited from the whole scam..


----------



## nomore4s (24 October 2009)

jono1887 said:


> I disagree, you might think that it is your money there, but in reality its a fictitious number... if you manage to get back your initial investment plus a little on top, you've still profited from the whole scam..




That's not what I'm saying. 

While you may have profited from it overall you still had to write off the money in the fund.

As an example if you invested $100,000 in it originally and received $150,000 in dividend payments over the years you are $50k up on your original investment, which is what you are saying, but that original $100k that is still invested in the fund is still your money and on your books which you have to write off as a loss when the fund blew up.

Also how many people were re-investing the d/e's? If they were they lost the lot.


----------



## GumbyLearner (25 October 2009)

nomore4s said:


> That's not what I'm saying.
> 
> While you may have profited from it overall you still had to write off the money in the fund.
> 
> ...




What about the people that wanted to write it off before it blew up? 

Call the IRS!!


----------



## jono1887 (25 October 2009)

nomore4s said:


> That's not what I'm saying.
> 
> While you may have profited from it overall you still had to write off the money in the fund.
> 
> ...




Ok, yes they would've written those off. Has there been any news on how the recovery of funds have gone? Have any of the investors seen any of their money??


----------



## GumbyLearner (26 October 2009)

Here's some more Made Off TM news.

*Madoff's billionaire friend found dead in pool*
October 26, 2009 - 10:21AM

Palm Beach billionaire Jeffry Picower, described as the biggest beneficiary of Bernard Madoff's fraud, died on Sunday after he was found at the bottom of the pool at his mansion home, police said.

Emergency services were called to the oceanside home after Picower, 67, was pulled from the pool by his wife and a housekeeper, and he was later pronounced dead, the Palm Beach Post reported quoting police and Fire Rescue officials.

The trustee in the Madoff fraud case had said in court documents late last month that Picower, newly listed as one of the 400 wealthiest Americans by Forbes magazine, was complicit in the fraud. He was being sued for $US7.2 billion ($8 billion).


----------



## jono1887 (26 October 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Here's some more Made Off TM news.
> 
> *Madoff's billionaire friend found dead in pool*
> October 26, 2009 - 10:21AM
> ...




hmm. suicide or murder?


----------



## Solly (27 October 2009)

jono1887 said:


> hmm. suicide or murder?




Jono, I'd be looking for sneaker tread marks on his head but forensic science is not my field.


----------



## jono1887 (28 October 2009)

Solly said:


> Jono, I'd be looking for sneaker tread marks on his head but forensic science is not my field.




well he could've been feeling guilty : but who feels guilt when they have billions of dollars??


----------



## Solly (1 November 2009)

*Madoff wishes SEC caught him years ago!*



> Ponzi king Bernard Madoff said he wished "they caught me six years ago, eight years ago" during a jailhouse interview with the Securities and Exchange Commission earlier this year, according to official documents released yesterday.
> 
> In candid remarks behind bars, the mega-fraudster said "he was 'worried every time' he was examined or investigated by the SEC, and that 'it was a nightmare for me' because 'it was very basic stuff.' "
> 
> During the June 17 sit-downs with SEC Inspector General David Kotz, Madoff said he was "astonished" at the ineptitude of a 2006 probe into his compliance practices.




http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/madoff_wishes_sec_caught_him_years_ZSKpGYDQr9m6LSP0fiDl9H


----------



## marketsurfer (18 March 2010)

What Bernie couldn't steal from me:  check my blog, thanks


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## Solly (20 March 2010)

Mr. Madoff's assailant was a beefy man serving time for a drug conviction...

Inmate believed big Bernie owed him money.

Big Bernie cops a paddling, only another 148 years to go.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704743404575128031143424928.html


----------



## Aussiejeff (8 June 2010)

> *Ponzi fraudster Bernard Madoff "a hero" in prison *
> 
> PONZI schemer Bernard Madoff, serving a 150-year sentence for masterminding Wall Street's biggest fraud, has total contempt for his victims and is considered a hero by his fellow inmates, New York Magazine said overnight.
> 
> ...



http://www.news.com.au/business/pon...a-hero-in-prison/story-e6frfm1i-1225876787813

Even worse, is the startling, ironic resemblance between these two images.... (especially general facial symmetry, jaw line, nose, eyes, mouth set etc.. even the hair!)


----------



## basilio (8 June 2010)

It's interesting isn't it? Madoff rips of $50 billion and I'm sure many, many people are in real distress as a result of his actions. And yet he seems to have ended up with a relatively cushy old age lifestyle. (Ask the people  out of work and on the streets in America for a comparison)

It would be interesting to see the living conditions of other criminals who didn't steal as much money but didn't have the relatively big name status of Madoff. Perhaps I'm being mean but somehow I would have thought he deserves a harder time for what he has done - and perhaps as an example to other potential rip off merchants....


----------



## UMike (8 June 2010)

True he should be busting rocks in some chain gang somewhere.

Along with the Eddy Grooves of this world.


----------



## adobee (11 November 2010)

http://www.txauction.com/

Madoff items go for auction .. 
Wouldnt mind picking up a nice watch.. but internet enrolments seem to have already finished at 10am today.. keep my eye out on ebay


----------



## Solly (19 March 2011)

> *The Madoff Tapes*
> One evening, my home phone rang. “You have a collect call from Bernard Madoff, an inmate at a federal prison,” a recording announced. And there he was.




http://nymag.com/news/features/berniemadoff-2011-3/


----------



## GumbyLearner (19 March 2011)

Some old talkback youtube vids


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## konkon (20 March 2011)

A government having an almost non payable debt is the norm these days. The fact that this ethos is trickling-down to an overburdened consumer is really worrying. Gone are the days of conservative lending, investing and speculating.


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## basilio (22 March 2011)

Solly said:


> http://nymag.com/news/features/berniemadoff-2011-3/




That was  a really interesting interview with Madoff. The story of how he basically conned his family along with the rest of the investment world is fascinating and terrifying.It also seems clear that many of the banks and investors who put money with him realised this was not legit.

Ironically it seems as if he is now relatively happy in prison. He is no longer trying to hide the  impossible


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## noirua (7 November 2018)

The Oklahoma busted. Would he have busted you?


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## PZ99 (7 November 2018)

^ Nice find... Australia is well overdue for some kick-freckle fraud laws IMO.



Spoiler



Even if it means we churn through 10 prime ministers a year


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## Dona Ferentes (13 May 2021)

noirua said:


> The Oklahoma busted. Would he have busted you?




Minutes 23 to 26 ... always worth a refresh


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## Dona Ferentes (13 May 2021)

and .... how close?

Revealed: Madoff so close to embezzling Australian investors​ https://www.firstlinks.com.au/revealed-madoff-close-embezzling-australian-investors 

                                  12 May 2021                                 
 
_*Editor's note*: 
Firstlinks has never published an article anonymously before, but while we cannot reveal the source of this piece, it is known to us and we consider it impeccable.
In debating whether to publish, we felt encouraged by the decision by Peter Singer and colleagues as reported in The Conversation:
"Philosophers Peter Singer, Jeff McMahan, and Francesca Minerva have announced a new academic outlet, the Journal of Controversial Ideas, as an “open access, peer-reviewed, interdisciplinary journal specifically created to promote free inquiry on controversial topics,” it will give authors the option to publish their work under a pseudonym “in order to protect themselves from threats to their careers or physical safety.”"
In the same spirit, confident in the source, we are publishing this informative piece without implicating anyone.

***_
In 2007 Bernie Madoff’s fraudulent hedge fund came perilously close to being distributed by a major Australian wealth manager. Sensible minds (just) prevailed and the distribution deal was aborted. A year later the largest hedge fund fraud of all time, a US$65 billion Ponzi scheme, was exposed. 
This article, which for obvious reasons must remain anonymous, is a reminder that financial institutions, just like retail investors, are vulnerable to fraud. Financial institutions have their own set of agency issues and behavioural biases which need to be managed.
Distribution of the funds of external managers​In the finance industry, distribution is king. The logic is that it doesn’t matter how good your product is, if it doesn’t sell, it's not worth having. Even if you argue that money will eventually find its way to quality investment products, there is a shorter-term imperative that demands businesses maximise their short-term return on equity. 
Look at the CEOs of most wealth managers. Many come from a distribution rather than a specialist background such as investments. This is not a bad outcome by any measure: an all-round suite of skills is required for a CEO to succeed and a successful grounding in distribution provides many of those skills.
It is common for wealth managers to distribute externally managed funds. This practice has existed for decades and can take many forms. A simple contractual arrangement is known as a third-party distribution arrangement while a more integrated relationship could be described as a partnership model. Another model is the white label approach, commonly used for global sectors, whereby a wealth manager outsources the asset management of their own branded product to an external manager.
Third-party distribution decisions bring different payoff profiles to wealth managers compared with the outcomes realised by retail or institutional investors. Performance will impact the asset-raising prospects for the wealth manager while directly impacting performance outcomes for end investors. Non-success of a third-party distribution arrangement represents an opportunity cost more than any significant financial cost.
Fiduciary responsibility and fraud ... enter Madoff​It is only in the case of a fraud that both wealth managers and investors experience extreme pain. For wealth managers, their brand may be irreparably damaged and there is an issue of compensation. For investors, there is a performance write-off and reputational damage if the investor is an institution, such as a super fund.
There are many agency issues and behavioural biases which exist in wealth management. The agency issue centres on the degree to which staff view themselves as fiduciaries or renters of the company’s brand and scale. Some of the behavioural biases include confirmation bias (tendency to ignore contrary information to their view), herd mentality (blindly follow and copy others), and a framing bias (where the narrative may distract from the facts).
So how does Bernie Madoff come into this story? 
One of many tactics used by Madoff was to allow other firms to distribute his hedge fund through select third-party relationships. This added further credibility to his name: investors take comfort from the assumed due diligence undertaken by the distributor.
A major Australian wealth manager came perilously close to entering a distribution arrangement with a respected US-based third-party distributor. The major attraction: access to Madoff’s hedge fund which had enviable performance, a legendary reputation and limited capacity, some of which this distributor had exclusively reserved.
What a coup to be able to partner with this group! It could really make someone’s career.
The business case was straightforward: exclusive access to a legendary hedge fund and an attractive distribution fee.
How to garner business case support?​Here's where big institution politics came into play. At the time there was an unofficial ideological power struggle between distribution and investments. The business case was selectively shared with ‘friendlies’ before being distributed to the broad executive group. There was significant momentum behind the business case by the time key questions were asked regarding the investment integrity of the underlying investment managers.
One investment executive engaged an independent consultant to provide an initial investment opinion on the suite of funds offered by the US third party distributor, including Madoff’s. 
Madoff never cooperated with the due diligence processes of any investor but he had many established strategies to attract clients, including:

access to exclusive IP (intellectual property) which couldn’t be shared
his previous career successes, where Madoff had been heavily involved in broking and software
connections and implicit endorsement from the sheer weight of investors and capital invested in the fund, and
exclusive distribution rights, as others were ready to take your spot.
The consultant report raised concerns that something didn’t feel right, but without full due diligence access it would have been near impossible to claim that such a large and famous hedge fund manager was a fraud.
A fine balance tilted the right way​The decision was finely balanced, but it was decided to _not_ proceed. I’ll never know to what degree the decision was political or objective. All I can say is that I am forever glad the right decision was made and that Madoff’s Ponzi scheme never managed to defraud Australian investors.
What’s fascinating is that no one did anything wrong. It is healthy for employees to propose new business ideas. The processes worked, and the agency issues and behavioural biases were managed.
Just.

_This article is published anonymously but from an exemplary source as a warning that even when dealing with the biggest names in the industry for what looks like a sure profit, great care and due diligence are required. _


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## basilio (13 May 2021)

Dona Ferentes said:


> and .... how close?
> 
> Revealed: Madoff so close to embezzling Australian investors​ https://www.firstlinks.com.au/revealed-madoff-close-embezzling-australian-investors
> 
> ...




Great find.  Certainly throws light on investment fund practices. In fact for years most people have been aware that just because their finacial advisor or fund manager advises/selects an investment option* doesn't* necessarily mean there has been due diligence done on the investment. In fact in many cases the most significant  diligence is done on the fee paid to the fund manger/advisor.

Will also check out the Journal of Controversial ideas.  Sounds like a version of wiki leaks.


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## noirua (Today at 4:36 AM)

Bernie Madoff -
Bernard Madoff had a heart attack in December 2013, and reportedly had end-stage renal disease (ESRD).[193] According to CBS New York[194] and other news sources, Madoff claimed in an email to CNBC in January 2014 that he had kidney cancer, but this was unconfirmed. In a court filing from his lawyer in February 2020, it was revealed Madoff had chronic kidney failure.[155]








						Bernie Madoff - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				











						Madoff investment scandal - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Peter B Madoff (and Andrew Madoff, before his death) remained the targets of a tax fraud investigation by federal prosecutors, according to _The Wall Street Journal_. David Friehling, Bernard Madoff's tax accountant, who pleaded guilty in a related case, was reportedly assisting in the investigation. According to a civil lawsuit filed in October 2009, trustee Irving Picard alleges that Peter Madoff deposited $32,146 into his Madoff accounts and withdrew over $16 million; Andrew deposited almost $1 million into his accounts and withdrew $17 million; Mark deposited $745,482 and withdrew $18.1 million.[179]

On February 17, 2022, Madoff's sister, Sondra Weiner, and her husband, Marvin, were both found dead with gun shot wounds in their Boynton Beach, Florida home. The deaths of Sondra, 87, and Marvin, 90, were labelled by police as a potential murder-suicide.[195]

Participants in the Madoff Ponzi scam:








						Participants in the Madoff investment scandal - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Andrew Madoff  - died from cancer 3 September 2014.





						Andrew Madoff - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Mark Madoff - committed suicide 11 December 2010.





						Mark Madoff - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Ruth Madoff wife of Bernie Madoff - While she had $70 million in assets in her name, after her husband was imprisoned, she was stripped of all of her money other than $1–2 million, by the government and by the trustee for her husband's firm, Irving Picard.

-----
List of investors in Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities​





						List of investors in Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Even after Madoff’s death, work to unwind epic fraud goes on​June 2, 2021








						Even after Madoff's death, work to unwind epic fraud goes on
					

NEW YORK (AP) — Epic Ponzi scheme mastermind Bernard Madoff is dead . But the effort to untangle his web of deceit lives on.




					apnews.com
				




Revealed: Madoff so close to embezzling Australian investors​May 12 2021








						Revealed: Madoff so close to embezzling Australian investors
					

We are publishing this anonymously knowing it comes from an impeccable source. Bernie Madoff’s fund was almost distributed to retail Australian investors a year before the largest-ever hedge fund fraud was exposed.




					www.firstlinks.com.au
				




‘He’s a financial serial killer’: how Bernie Madoff became the monster of Wall Street​January 4 2023








						‘He’s a financial serial killer’: how Bernie Madoff became the monster of Wall Street
					

A new Netflix docuseries details the crimes of the man who crafted a $64bn Ponzi scheme – and those who protected him




					www.theguardian.com


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