# Cigarette smoke



## Happy (9 October 2006)

> From ABC  , October 9, 2006
> France to ban smoking in public
> By Stephanie Kennedy
> 
> ...




Little steps in the right direction.

But I am dreaming about the time when I will not have to hold my breath for 30 seconds or longer on approach of hospital or any government building.

Or having to go indoors just because neighbours smoke lingers to my place.

If tunnel stacks can have filtration installed, similar filtration can be used so cigarette smoke doesn’t leave smoker.

One day, maybe.


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## noirua (9 October 2006)

Happy said:
			
		

> Little steps in the right direction.
> 
> But I am dreaming about the time when I will not have to hold my breath for 30 seconds or longer on approach of hospital or any government building.
> 
> ...




All very well and good Happy, however, one of the biggest polluters are those who use aircraft. A family taking a return trip, about 1,000 miles total, their share of pollution equates to between 30% and 50% of the average families pollution from electricity and gas for a whole year. 

Families that have from 2 to 5 cars, using petrol or diesel, are equally as deadly as smokers. 

So, fair enough, reducing smoking is a great idea, but many Governments are the greater hypocrites and exaggerators in what they front to have been achieved by a smoking ban.


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## krisbarry (9 October 2006)

I reckon much has changed just within my life-time.

My parents smoked heavily, and they raised three children who do not smoke.

I remember going to footy matches and being puffed out by the smoke, not anymore!

I remember going to the beach and to outdoor events and having smoke all around me, not anymore.

I remember working in the hospitality industry for thousands of hours surrounded by smoke, not anymore.

I remember seeing huge billboards advertising smoking, not anymore.

much has changed, and changed for the better


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## Nicks (9 October 2006)

We all know that the governments are hypocrites. They will do whatever they can to get tax, and fuel and cigarettes get a lot of tax.

Regardless smoking is disgusting and a personal intrusion on my health.

I should have the freedom to move around without being subjected to it.

I should be free and able as a human being i n a democracy and free world to go to a bar without having to be subjected to cigarette smoke.

So should everyone.

If you want to filth your lungs, teeth, fingers and body odour with cigarettes, please do it in your own home, and not with anyone else present, like kids.

AND lastly, stop filthing the streets and environment with your butts. Should be an on the spot fine for throwing cigarette butts on the ground. For some reason smokers think its ok and not rubbish, well it is, the rest of us think it is and so does the environment and all its animal inhabitants.

Try walking along any city footpath and see if you can take 5 steps only without seeing a butt. What a sad disgusting world we live in.

Smokers are all suckers to tobacco companies. If you cal let someone convince you to pay money to injest something that is disgusting and dangerous to you health, then you are just simply an idiot.


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## noirua (9 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> We all know that the governments are hypocrites. They will do whatever they can to get tax, and fuel and cigarettes get a lot of tax.
> 
> Regardless smoking is disgusting and a personal intrusion on my health.
> 
> ...





I agree with what you say, but try taking 5 steps without seeing a car. Asthma is said to have grown in numbers rapidly as car use has increased and smoking reduced.


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## Nicks (9 October 2006)

noirua said:
			
		

> I agree with what you say, but try taking 5 steps without seeing a car. Asthma is said to have grown in numbers rapidly as car use has increased and smoking reduced.




Young women are taking up smoking more than ever. (and to all the young women, it is a big turn off)


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## Bloveld (9 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> Try walking along any city footpath and see if you can take 5 steps only without seeing a butt. What a sad disgusting world we live in.




Hey you should take up smoking.
It would cheer you up a bit an might even get you off this world a bit sooner. Since you hate it so much.


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## Happy (9 October 2006)

noirua said:
			
		

> All very well and good Happy, however, one of the biggest polluters are those who use aircraft. A family taking a return trip, about 1,000 miles total, their share of pollution equates to between 30% and 50% of the average families pollution from electricity and gas for a whole year.
> 
> Families that have from 2 to 5 cars, using petrol or diesel, are equally as deadly as smokers.
> 
> So, fair enough, reducing smoking is a great idea, but many Governments are the greater hypocrites and exaggerators in what they front to have been achieved by a smoking ban.




To argue about somebody choking up with cigarette smoke at the hospital entry with smoke produced by big jumbo jets is complimentary rather than excusionary.

Pollution is multilevel and I wouldn’t like to wait for my gulp of fresh air at the hospital entry after all other polluters are stopped.


I have had a number of fruitless discussions on right of those who chose to smoke against rights of those to who would prefer cigarette smoke free air.


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## Nicks (9 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Hey you should take up smoking.
> It would cheer you up a bit an might even get you off this world a bit sooner. Since you hate it so much.




So smoking cheers you up. Good on you.

Let me clarify eariler statement - I think the world is great, would be better without cigarette butts. If you disagree i'd be curious to hear your argument.


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## professor_frink (9 October 2006)

I better give up smoking then. I Don't want to interfere with everyone breathing in smog.


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## krisbarry (9 October 2006)

This thread has only just started and its getting ugly already


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## Milk Man (9 October 2006)

Smoking should be made illegal completely because its the work of the devil and those who do it are witches.

We should also ban all cars with more than 100hp and run on petrol (yuck!) and only electric cars should be allowed.

Loud music should banned because it hurts my ears and is obviously the work of the devil also.

Sharp knives longer than 1 inch should be banned because someone could hurt their-wittle-self.

All alcohol except wine should get banned.

All sports should be banned because someone might hurt their-wittle-self especially that horrid motor racing.

Sex should be banned because it can transfer STD's. Only masturbation and IVF are allowed with a move to eliminating all fluid swapping activities.

All children should have to go to school till theyre 30 so they properly know how to be condescending. Everyone knows you cant make money without going to uni. Duh!

No meat is allowed only tofu. Then we can produce more estrogen and have man boobs.

Oh and we should exterminate all the Jews coz its all their evil fault.  
As if you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic. LONG LIVE THE DEMOLITION MAN!


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## Happy (9 October 2006)

If cigarette butts could decompose in several months rather than 10 years plus would be a good start.

I saw many walkers picking up empty aluminium cans and I thought there is price for everything.
I extrapolated it a bit and thought about a bounty on collected cigarette butts.

Imagine how many cigarette butts there would be around if on top of $200 fine, every butt not fined for, collected and brought to collection centres would fetch 5 cents for example?

If nobody would be interested, we could make it 10 cents or 20, after all this is contract and price is negotiable.


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## RichKid (9 October 2006)

okay guys, back to topic and let's not take analogies to an extreme.....


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## Nicks (9 October 2006)

Happy said:
			
		

> If cigarette butts could decompose in several months rather than 10 years plus would be a good start.
> 
> I saw many walkers picking up empty aluminium cans and I thought there is price for everything.
> I extrapolated it a bit and thought about a bounty on collected cigarette butts.
> ...




Happy has some good points here.

Id be a bit worried that it could encourage smokers to bring in their own butts though. I think a fine that is actually enforced is a good start. 

Regardless on what we all think about smoking, cars, guns etc I dont think anyone disagrees that cigarette butt litter is a bad thing? Why should smokers be allowed to throw them out the window when the rest of us have to put our rubbish in the bin. They dont want to dirty their own cars or even the ashtray in their cars (im generalising here, sorry to smokers who are actually responsible, but there is a majority that aren't).


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## Milk Man (9 October 2006)

RichKid said:
			
		

> okay guys, back to topic and let's not take analogies to an extreme.....




Haha, I had some better ones but thought better of it! : 

Smoking isn't good but I think of condescending teachers and cops when I hear the old rhetoric. I get a picture of Germaine Greer and 2ft armpit hair and its all over (zzz...zzz...zzz). Politically correct fascism has a lot to answer for; ever wonder why these kids wear black and studded dog collars and smoke ice and stuff? 

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Here's a few idea's: 

Defensive driving courses and off-street burn-out comps and less speed camera's and traffic cops.

Fitness tests and or drug tests (not compulsory) with rewards and subsidies on gym/sports club memberships.

Subsidies on hydrogen conversions *NOT* LPG.

Bans on all soy products.... : .

See? Positive re-enforcement instead of nagging and policing!


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## Nicks (9 October 2006)

What's wrong with Soy Milkman? I drink Soy Milk, it tastes So Good on my cereal and So Good as a drink.


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## Milk Man (9 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> What's wrong with Soy Milkman? I drink Soy Milk, it tastes So Good on my cereal and So Good as a drink.




It increases estrogen production. Thats why soy and linseed is good for PMS. Might be ok if they put a big dose of tribullus terrestris in it. Plus it can't be good for profits unless I start growing soy beans.   If your lactose intollerant drink sheep/goat milk or take Chopper's advice (toughen the f up, eah) : .


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## Realist (9 October 2006)

Smoking should be illegal like pot and ecstacy are then no-one will ever do it!    

The government will also be more than happy to give up the billions of dollars of tax they receive from smokers as well, I am sure of it!


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## CanOz (9 October 2006)

The governement and all governments around the world that use excise tax on tobacco will gradually "weed" out smokers by legislation. Thereby continuing to extract the tax to pay for the medical bills. In fact raising the tax as they go to replace lost revenue from quitters (or death).

This is a well known fact. Trust me, as an 'on again, off again smoker' i wish they would ban them too. But after i looked into it, this is the reason why its not in the interest of governments to remove the tax (i.e. ban them).


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## bunyip (9 October 2006)

Smoking in public should definitely be banned. Why should I have to breathe in poisonous and harmful cigarette smoke when I walk down the street.
Why should I have my clothes permeated with the smell. 
Sure, exhaust emissions pollute the atmosphere too, but we can't do without aircraft and other vehicles. But we can certainly do without cigarette smoke.
At least cars and planes etc serve a necessary and useful purpose, unlike cigarettes.
Everyone who smokes is being foolish in the extreme. It simply does not make sense for smokers to pay exorbitant sums of money for something that destroys their health and causes discomfort and harm to everyone around them.
Females in particular should avoid cigarettes like the plague. Quite apart from the risks associated with smoking during pregnancy, the softer skin of females is badly affected by cigarette smoke. Just observe how many hard faced women you see puffing away on a cigarette, old before their time, their faces dried out and wrinkled well beyond their years.
My aunty, aged 80, is one of the ugliest women I've ever seen. Her face is incredibly wrinkled and dried out. Yes, I know, women of 80 all have wrinkled faces. But not like my aunty......I'm not exaggerating when I say that she is absolutely hideously ugly to look at.
As a young woman she had movie star looks. I've seen various photos of her, including her wedding photos, and she was equally as beautiful as any of the film stars of the time.....Ava Gardner, Audrey Hepburn, Vivian Lee. My mother still talks about what a stunner my aunty was as a young woman, and how the young blokes were all chasing her.
She smoked heavily from the age of 18, and it destroyed her looks completely. Even thirty years ago she was extremely hard faced and on the verge of ugliness as I recall. She still smokes 30 a day, even at the age of 80. It's a mystery to me why she hasn't succumbed to lung cancer. She is gradually succumbing to emphysema though. She has difficult breathing and will soon need to be on breathing assistance equipment. Her voice is so gravely that it's difficult to understand her when she speaks. She has never made a serious effort to stop smoking.
I don't understand why smokers don't do whatever is necessary to quit. Sure it's difficult, but it can be done. These days there are many good programs available to help people kick the habit. Strange thing is, most of the smokers I know have never even tried these quit programs.

Bunyip


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## Milk Man (9 October 2006)

Yes, telling people what to do sure does convince them the error of their ways. Why do teenagers start smoking I wonder?


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## Smurf1976 (9 October 2006)

Agreed that smoking isn't good (that's why I quit... anyone for one of those annoying ex-smokers lectures?   ) but it's a fair way down the list of great evils IMO.

Hydrogenated vegetable oil is another known nasty that isn't at all good for your health. And yet it's so common that most of use would have eaten some today in some sort of processed food or added it to our own cooking at home. And we don't _need_ it at all.

What about diesel exhaust on buses? There's no valid reason, apart from cost, to not put the exhaust on the top of the bus rather than out the back. It won't reduce the total pollution but would avoid concentrated doses for following drivers and pedestrians. Diesel exhaust is to my understanding known to be carcinogenic or at least strongly suspected as being such.

What about refined white sugar? Another nasty that we don't need but most choose to use on a regular basis.

What about alcohol? I've personally witnessed more harm done by this stuff than all other drugs, including cigarettes, put together. And yet it's still legal to advertise and still considered socially acceptable. It affects many in addition to drinkers themselves (as does smoking) and causes many innocent deaths on the roads, violence on the streets and in homes etc. And we don't _need_ it at all for human consumption. 

Why don't we have pictures of smashed cars with dead bodies on beer cans? Or bashed wives and children? Yes I'm being serious, alcohol takes a huge toll that goes largely unrecognised by the majority of society (hardly surprising when most people are using this particular drug).

What about solariums? Paying good money and using electricity (production of which, for 90% of the power supply in Australia, involves air pollution) in order to increase your risk of skin cancer whilst aging the skin. Another thing we do which harms health but we don't actually _need_.

What about loud music? Any industrial business would be fined or sued out of existance for exposing workers to sound levels that are considered perfectly normal in nightclubs and concert venues. As with smoking, my taxes will be paying for all that hearing damage in years to come. It's shocking to realise just how many have permanent hearing damage at an age when even heavy smoking would be unlikely to have caused serious harm.

What about cars? Sure, we need cars but we don't actually need the vast majority of oversize SUV's pumping out fumes and guzzling the world's dwindling oil supplies. If you add in the military aspect of keeping the oil flowing and future lives lost from global warming then there's quite a toll there and it's largely unnecessary.

What about deodorant sprays? Ever had the experience of someone spraying the stuff on a bus? It's outright disgusting and you're breathing in some seriously nasty stuff (just look at the ingredients on the can). Why not ban the aerosol type given that roll-on does the same job with less harm to the environment and less human exposure (via inhalation) to the nasties?

What about illegal drugs? I would MUCH rather see some 18 year old woman smoking an ordinary cigarette than see someone messing with dope or harder drugs. At least with the cigarettes they have a decade or so to reconsider and quit before any serious harm is likely. There's a lot of dumbed down people out there due to illegal drugs and many of them are under 30 - they're not hard to spot once you know what to look for. As for those frying their brains with ice etc, what more can I say? Too late, the damage is done at such a young age.

What about all those cars with asbestos brakes? They were still being installed until about 3 years ago despite the dangers being known before cars were at all common. We're breathing it in cities every day whether we drive or not and it's a known killer. You'd be amazed at just how much asbestos you've probably been exposed to even if you've never knowingly encountered the stuff. Again, it's totally unnecessary but it was cheap and we live in a world where the $ trumps over human health practically every time.

Bottom line is there's lots of nasty things that are either known to be bad for your health or which commonsense would suggest aren't good that most of us are either doing ourselves or are exposed to. And most of them aren't necessary since healthier alternatives are readily available. Smoking is just another one - if people want to do it then it's their business IMO. It's not good but there is worse. And we do live in a "free" society where banning such things is somewhat out of place. 

That said, I'm glad that it's no longer allowed in shopping centres, pubs & clubs etc and I think there's justification for banning it in moving vehicles (on the grounds of road safety - I've seen plenty of cigarette-induced bad driving and of course butts thrown from the window are a known cause of major fires) and also in any enclosed space (including private homes) where children are present. Smoking in front of children in an enclosed space, just like drinking while pregnant, is child abuse and ought to be treated as such IMO.


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## Bloveld (10 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> What's wrong with Soy Milkman? I drink Soy Milk, it tastes So Good on my cereal and So Good as a drink.




Hey wouldnt it be funny if you got really sick from soy, after mounting a jihad against smokes.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/notmilk.html


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## Nicks (10 October 2006)

Firstly, I have not personally attacked anyone for expressing their views pro cigarettes, so if anyone feels the need to do it to others then thats their choice, as is smoking. Ive seen a couple so far on this thread.

Surely noone disagrees on the following:
- Butts are litter
- Smoking in front of others who can breathe in the smoke is bad and removes their right to choice
- Smoking when pregnant is bad and unfair on the human being it affects
- Smoking is bad for your health
- Smoking is bad for all of us who are taxpayers and pay for the public health system
- Smoking in fron of kids is bad
- Smoking starts fires
- Lots of smokers throw their butts out the car window or butt out on the ground

Secondly, re Soy, I did a google after Milk Mans advice on the effects of Soy, funnily it is one of those things that 50% of websites say its bad and the other 50% say that it is good, depends on whos paying you I guess. So for every website you post there is another saying the opposite, anyone can pick a website off the millions on the internet. 

Guess the good outweighs the bad and it is neutral! (By the way, I love dairy!).


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## Bloveld (10 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> Smokers are all suckers to tobacco companies. If you cal let someone convince you to pay money to injest something that is disgusting and dangerous to you health, then you are just simply an idiot.




Naaah you havent attacked anyone. Noboby minds being called an idiot or a sucker.

But there was a time that scientists argued over the danger of tobacco much like soy now.
I consider soy milk to be disgusting. And having looked at the pros an cons, I think its dangerous to my health.

How many years was margarine promoted as a health food. I read a book over 20 years ago that said never eat margarine. So infromation about its risks has been around for a long time.
The same book said never use sunscreen. And now we are seeing skin cancer caused by sunscreen use


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## bunyip (10 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Naaah you havent attacked anyone. Noboby minds being called an idiot or a sucker.
> 
> But there was a time that scientists argued over the danger of tobacco much like soy now.
> I consider soy milk to be disgusting. And having looked at the pros an cons, I think its dangerous to my health.
> ...




Most of the smokers I know are happy to admit they're idiots for smoking, and that taking up the habit in the first place was an idiotic thing to do.
I don't think they'd disagree with me for a second if I told them they're suckers to the cigarette companies.
They know it's destroying their fitness and health, they bemoan how much money it's costing them, they admit it's inconsiderate to others.
Yet they continue doing it, and most of them haven't even looked into the various quit programs that could help them kick the habit.



Bunyip


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## Bloveld (10 October 2006)

bunyip said:
			
		

> Most of the smokers I know are happy to admit they're idiots for smoking, and that taking up the habit in the first place was an idiotic thing to do.
> I don't think they'd disagree with me for a second if I told them they're suckers to the cigarette companies.
> They know it's destroying their fitness and health, they bemoan how much money it's costing them, they admit it's inconsiderate to others.
> Yet they continue doing it, and most of them haven't even looked into the various quit programs that could help them kick the habit.
> ...





No argument here. They are definately idiots.

But then I dont mind attacking people.

Cheers Steve


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## 2020hindsight (10 October 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> Agreed that smoking isn't good ...
> Hydrogenated vegetable oil ...
> What about diesel exhaust ...
> What about refined white sugar?
> ...



Smurf, Man you are without doubt and by a country mile the most informed and thorough person on this sort of topic that the western world has seen in 20 years 
are you seriously a 1976 vintage ? sheesh. -  bet youve got a PhD in "smoking, sources of power, and other similar topics"
... having said that I want to express my prejudice about smoking versus all of the above - see it is so devoid of a counterbalancing good effect... at least diesel gets someone from A to B.  - deodorants stop people smelling (although I could personally care less - they say they've found deodorant in breast cancers for instance - id prefer my wife to have bo as well as boobs) ...
I occasionally see cigarett butts in the kids rooms and I go off the handle .. tobacco ...I absolutely hate the stuff.  I mean as if there is any difference between the cigarette companies and a common backstreet drugpusher, Id be interested in hearing about it!.    The British got into China during the opium wars with similar tactics.  Missionaries pushing drugs.
But anyway - its fascinating to read your incredibly fair and wide ranging replies to these threads 


The only way I can respond is to remember that comedian (I thought he was called Bob Newhart !!!(remembered at last )  who did that skit about Sir Walter Raleigh discovering smoking having met up with the red indians... you recall I'm sure ... Hello,, oh yeah hi wal  (aside hey fellas its mad wal lol".... and you stick this dead leaf in your mouth and you... you set fire to it, wal ... lol - sounds great wal ..."

btw, you know you have lost the war against tobacco when yuor partner, in the midst of a lovely meal at a romantic restaurant , suddenly says "just gotta duck outside dear ... "  o boy - such a big chunk of a relationship  wiped away by a drug dependency ... sheesh - but I agree its hard to put into words
Ahhh At last I have found something you missed ...not only drinking whilst pregnant my friend, dont forget also smoking


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## Smurf1976 (10 October 2006)

I should have pointed out in my original post that there has been at least one tobacco-caused death in my family in the past 15 years and another came very close to suffering serious disability as a direct result of smoking.

But I'm far more on the liberty side than the socialist side in my general thinking. You know the risks of smoking. Your choice but don't sue anyone if you get sick and don't expose others to your smoke. Or alcohol. Or hydrogenated oils. Or...

Life is short so no point spending all your time worrying about it ending. But I'll say this - just look at all these diseases that are now common that were unheard of a century ago. Lung cancer is but one of them - time to publicly identify what's causing the others, a topic that I first became interested in through the asthma debate (which in the Tasmanian context is absolutely tied to the long running Hydro versus wood heating debate, hence my interest).


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## 2020hindsight (10 October 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Smurf, ...The only way I can respond is to remember that comedian (I thought he was called Bob Newhart !!!(remembered at last )  who did that skit about Sir Walter Raleigh



... "The introduction of Tobacco to Civilization," wherein a telephone call from Sir Walter Raleigh prompts skeptical laughter in England: 

"Are you saying "snuff," Walt? What's snuff? You take a pinch of tobacco (starts giggling) and you shove it up your nose! And it makes you sneeze, huh. I imagine it would, Walt, yeah. Goldenrod seems to do it pretty well over here. It has some other uses, though. You can chew it? Or put it in a pipe. Or you can shred it up and put it on a piece of paper, and roll it up - don't tell me, Walt, don't tell me- you stick in your ear, right Walt? Oh, between your lips! Then what do you do to it? (Giggling)  You set fire to it! Then what do you do Walt? You inhale the smoke! Walt, we've been a little worried about you...you're gonna have a tough time getting people to stick burning leaves in their mouth...." 

Said H. Allen Smith, "That thing about tobacco and cigarettes is possibly the greatest single comedy routine I've seen or heard in my entire life." 

Well - lol I'm not sure about the superlatives in the humour dept - but it sure explores the stupidity of the topic...If it came to straight humour,  Id probably pick Billy Connolly, or the Goons, or the Goodies, or any of the Pink Panther movies or ... 

PS you mention Tasmania mate ... One of my Great grandfathers came out about 1860 - met his wife in Glenorchy - I have a letter from his father to him "If I had 100 sons I would send them all to the southern hemisphere... either Van Diemans land or Natal,   opportunity etcetc ...the sad thing is that England is not sinking by the efforts of a foreign power but by its own stupidity" etcetc  makes for a great read with a bottle of old port 
PPS Is asthma also related to being sprayed by the cropdusters who work the insecticides in the timber country? - lethal, man....bludy murder.


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## coyotte (10 October 2006)

Instead of attacking smokers , if non-smokers took the time out to understand why ? . they would do themselves a favour -- after all no-one wins in war ! -- which antismoking groups have turned this into from the smokers perspective


Just a few facts as I understand them from a course the NSW  Heath Dept. runs through the Hospitail System :

That over 75% of Westerners a genericaly biologically addictive to nicotine , as opposed to Easterners who are around 20% , but they have the same addictive problem with opuim --- this why you rarely see Asians Smoking .

The Addiction is caused by domant receptors in the brain cells , from the very first exposure to nicotine these receptors awaken and begin to mulitply and must be feed , similar to the receptors for thirst , as the nicotine is only active in blood stream for around 20 min , the receptors start craving for more  just the same as a thirsty person is craving for liquid .

You can compare a smoker who is trying to quite  to someone who has medical problem and was told that for the rest of their life they could only take liquids through a drip but not by mouth --- ouch !

The reason nicorette gum/patchs fail more often than they succeced it because they are still feeding the receptors, all they can do is help break the habit side , but they are of no use in breaking the addiction side .

The only way to succesfully stop , is to stop the flow of nicotine to the recepters for around 3 mths because they will then go back into dormancy -- but this like saying you can't have any liquids for 3 mths .


Goverments and Antismoking groups instead of running a hate campain would better serve themselves and smokers by trying to help ---- most smokers would love to be able to just quite with out all the anguish .

For a start -- call a truce !

Over a seven year period , increase the legal age to 25 .

Over the same period , gradually decrease the legal nicotine level allowed in tobacco products -- initally most would smoke more , but over a period of time would revert back to  their lower levels.

Reduce the amount of cigs in a pack back to 10 --- smokers tend to smoke a pack a day --- years ago 10 was the standard pack

Gradually decrease the size --- again years ago cigs where much smaller --- Rothmans introduced the king size cig of today.

This measures taken as a group would help make far eaiser for a smoker to quit 


Most smokers are crying out for HELP , but in return all they get is attacked.


Just my thoughts

Cheers


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## Bloveld (11 October 2006)

Just a pill that would stop the smoke damage would do me.


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## Milk Man (11 October 2006)

You hit the nail on the head coyotte! Being ostricised for smoking only makes me want to smoke more.


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## 2020hindsight (11 October 2006)

coyotte said:
			
		

> Instead of attacking smokers , if non-smokers took the time out to understand why ? . ....For a start -- call a truce !  Over a seven year period , increase the legal age to 25 ...Over the same period , gradually decrease the legal nicotine level allowed in tobacco products -- initally most would smoke more , but over a period of time would revert back to  their lower levels...Reduce the amount of cigs in a pack back to 10 --- smokers tend to smoke a pack a day --- years ago 10 was the standard pack
> ..  This measures taken as a group would help make far eaiser for a smoker to quit ..Most smokers are crying out for HELP , but in return all they get is attacked.  Just my thoughts.  Cheers



I think we all know why mate - there's a monkey on their back, poor bugas. I agree with you entirely there.  I also agree with trying to keep kids away from it with age limits - (maybe stop 5% of them starting).
Not sure I hold your optimism that reducing the size of packets would help.
As for govt ads,  I had a close relative who lost both legs due to circulatory probs partly brought on by smoking (also diabetes to be fair) - and also had a paralysed arm and lost his speech due to a stroke.   Quality of life?  you can guess.  You think I'm going to agree that the TV ads are exaggerating?   Just some more thoughts.

Milkman - see you in the City to Surf next year  - there's a dare - you'll enjoy it.
Take up jujitsu mate;  ugi - goshi that bloody monkey over a cliff


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## Nicks (11 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Naaah you havent attacked anyone. Noboby minds being called an idiot or a sucker.
> 
> But there was a time that scientists argued over the danger of tobacco much like soy now.
> I consider soy milk to be disgusting. And having looked at the pros an cons, I think its dangerous to my health.
> ...




Well it wasn't directed at an individual. 

While Soy may be still an unknown, smoking isnt. That said I will be looking more into the Soy thing with interest.


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## Happy (11 October 2006)

We found dozen ways to understand smokers, is there a way to protect me from passive smoking?

And I am not talking about going to hard rock cafe or smoking den or pub.

I am talking about getting access to hospital, or government building or shopping centre and not being exposed to cigarette smoke.


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## rocket_science (11 October 2006)

hello everyone

if smokers want to exercise their right to smoke then that's fine as it's their choice but I then exercise my right to tell them where they can and can't smoke  I don't allow smoking in my home or in my car for starters.  Passive smoke is a proven health hazard.


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## 2020hindsight (11 October 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Milkman - see you in the City to Surf next year  - there's a dare - you'll enjoy it.



Milkman - sorry mate I just realised I'm being presumptive in assuming you're not already doing the city2surf  - in which case Let's have a case of beer on who wins (sure Im a hypocrite on that score) - might do two training runs next year instead of just the one.  btw,  You know you're not as fit as you should be when a 90 year old runs past you on the hill like "Cliff Young passing a road train".  :walker:


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## Bloveld (11 October 2006)

rocket_science said:
			
		

> hello everyone
> 
> if smokers want to exercise their right to smoke then that's fine as it's their choice but I then exercise my right to tell them where they can and can't smoke  I don't allow smoking in my home or in my car for starters.  Passive smoke is a proven health hazard.




Wow, I bet you are really proud of yourself.
Never mind the thousands of litres of car exhaust you produce, enviromental damage from oil production and refining, pollution from car batteries, tyres and brakes.
Then theres the toxins in your house, paint, adhesives and carpets. The trees cut down for timber, quarries dug for sand an cement.
Do you use electricity or gas? Both are a source of pollution. What about radiation from electrical distribution? Do you use a mobile phone?
Driving a car is a proven health hazard. Getting out of bed is a health hazard. Walking out the door in the morning is a health hazard.

We already have seen that people can live into there eighties smoking 30 a day, and you are worried about getting the equivalent of a few smokes in a year. Now thats paranoid.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/21/1053196637934.html

I like the last line of this article

The scientific evidence is just not there, says Enstrom. "But maybe we've gone past the point where anyone cares about the facts."


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## rocket_science (11 October 2006)

bloveld

I didn't say people can't smoke.  If a guest in my home wants to light up a smoke I ask them to go outside regardless of rain , hail or shine as is my right to do 

So far no-one has ever complained about going outside and if they did then the old stiff-tiddies rule applies   : and they'll just have to wait until they leave to have a smoke.

btw, we don't have any ash trays in our household


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## krisbarry (11 October 2006)

For a non-smoker, like myself, I actually like the smell of cigarettes.  Not the stale kinda smell ya get from being at the pub or the clubs, just the smell of a freshly lit cigarette.

Am I strange or what...?

I also like the smell of petrol too...


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## professor_frink (11 October 2006)

Stop_the_clock said:
			
		

> For a non-smoker, like myself, I actually like the smell of cigarettes.  Not the stale kinda smell ya get from being at the pub or the clubs, just the smell of a freshly lit cigarette.
> 
> Am I strange or what...?
> 
> I also like the smell of petrol too...




I don't mind the smell of petrol STC  

I know people that don't mind the smell of a freshly lit smoke, and they think it's a disgusting habit


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## rocket_science (11 October 2006)

yep stc, and getting the smell of stale beer, smoke and who knows what else out of your clothes after a night out is not always quick


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## Milk Man (11 October 2006)

*2020*- Great attempt at positive re-enforcement mate. Anxiety is my "monkey" as you put it; one monkey at a time. It would actually do me more harm to quit right now than to keep smoking. Something like jujitsu would help purge some tar though.


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## Happy (11 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> We already have seen that people can live into there eighties smoking 30 a day, and you are worried about getting the equivalent of a few smokes in a year. Now thats paranoid.




One of lines of defence, or ridicule of people who would prefer to avoid the smoke.

Until there is hard rule, we will be just talking.

Luckily things change my way, so fingers crossed I will be able to smell only every other pollution, without the cigarette smoke.


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## Bloveld (11 October 2006)

Happy said:
			
		

> One of lines of defence, or ridicule of people who would prefer to avoid the smoke.
> 
> Until there is hard rule, we will be just talking.
> 
> Luckily things change my way, so fingers crossed I will be able to smell only every other pollution, without the cigarette smoke.




Well thats a bit selfish of you.

Any plans to target public farters?


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## 2020hindsight (11 October 2006)

COMPULSIONS

I'm a compulsive collector, hoard every chance that I get,
I've got garages and attics just brimming with things that "that I'll get to use yet"
My wife and I have a wager (I got to choose what was bet)
If I can use but just one of those items  - she buys me an old concord jet. 

I'm a compulsive corrector, stick in my beak for a dime,
When people tell me a poem or a joke, I join in the punchline - or mime,
People have asked me to P off, go find some mountain to climb,
But I just accept it a gesture of fun, and tell 'em their gestures should rhyme. 

I'm a compulsive door-locker, windows spring-loaded with mace,
Step on my doormat, a beartrap slams shut and a boxing glove smashes your face,
Someone complained to the courthouse - "Twenty days slammer Your Grace?", well
Now I've a sign on the jailbars exclaiming "KEEP OUT !! 'cos this is MY place".

I am compulsively friendly, say "hello" more than is wise,
(Henry the eighth had a little in common but he preferred headless goodbyes).
I like proposals on first dates, caught one last week by surprise,
Then she explained we were already married - so THAT's where I'd seen those blue eyes.
(There before me - when I put on my specs, was the love of all my nine lives).

I'm a compulsive backgammoner, chasing small stones round a board,
Also I like to re-read all the classics like Milton and my gran'ma Maude,
TV then features in our house, footy show here is adored,
So Heaven for me is to read while I backgammon, hearing my footy team's scored.

I find compulsions are good things, let's me fill in idle hours,
Whether it's running around in the nud, or climbing up transmission towers,
No doubt there'll be a big setback, when Buddha turns off my life-powers,
Finally succumbed  - there I'll lie at my rest  - compulsively pushing up flowers.  

I seem to recall someone saying in another thread -the best way (only way?) to get over an addiction is to replace it with another


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## Kipp (11 October 2006)

Happy said:
			
		

> If cigarette butts could decompose in several months rather than 10 years plus would be a good start.
> 
> I saw many walkers picking up empty aluminium cans and I thought there is price for everything.
> I extrapolated it a bit and thought about a bounty on collected cigarette butts.
> ...



I think deposits on cans, bottles etc is an interesting idea... but 5cents (only in SA) isn't worth **** to the average joe (especially considering you need to take them to depots).

If you want to see how Recycling actaully can work... you need to up it to at least 10 (pref 20 cents) and make drop-offs readily available (i.e. at the place you bought them from... even a corner store).  Then you don't not see bottles on the street and people will take a full case of empties back for a discount on their next slab.  This is the system in Montreal (and some of western europe I think).  And well as for cigarette sure... whatever you like...


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## Nicks (12 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Wow, I bet you are really proud of yourself.
> Never mind the thousands of litres of car exhaust you produce, enviromental damage from oil production and refining, pollution from car batteries, tyres and brakes.
> Then theres the toxins in your house, paint, adhesives and carpets. The trees cut down for timber, quarries dug for sand an cement.
> Do you use electricity or gas? Both are a source of pollution. What about radiation from electrical distribution? Do you use a mobile phone?
> ...




Thanks Bloveld (Steve) for the proof!
Regarding pulling up random Internet articles, too bad you ignore the thousands of others on the net. I could find a scientific article on the net telling me that eating lard is good for my health or how scratching my ass could cause gangreen. I choose to use my mobile, I dont choose to ingest passive smoke but am often focred to.

And as Happy says "One of lines of defence, or ridicule of people who would prefer to avoid the smoke." Well in return perhaps go have a smoke, wash it down with a glas of Soy Milk, follow it up with some fried lard and then surf the net for an article on how smoking actually cures Aids, no doubt you'll find one. And hey, if we tell you we dont like smoking and it makes you want to do it more, then aren't you the high school rebel and a tough man. 

I'll wait for your personal attack with anticipation and will not dignify it with any thought. All because you seem to zero in on anyone for preferring not to have to passive smoke or stink.   Alternatively you could prove Happy's theory wrong and respond with some intelligent non personal argument.

All we are saying is smoke and keep it and the butts to yourself. And to be honset, for your sake I hope you choose to stop, I don't want you to have health problems.

I think everyone needs to see the movie 'Thankyou for smoking'. You wont find any better arguments to smoke.  

And we all know now the dangerous topics are not only Religion and Politics, but also Smoking and Soy now too!


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## Happy (12 October 2006)

Kipp said:
			
		

> I think deposits on cans, bottles etc is an interesting idea... but 5cents (only in SA) isn't worth **** to the average joe (especially considering you need to take them to depots).
> 
> If you want to see how Recycling actaully can work... you need to up it to at least 10 (pref 20 cents) and make drop-offs readily available (i.e. at the place you bought them from... even a corner store).  Then you don't not see bottles on the street and people will take a full case of empties back for a discount on their next slab.  This is the system in Montreal (and some of western europe I think).  And well as for cigarette sure... whatever you like...




Surely with time even $1 might not look attractive, but people happily flock to pick up petrol with discount they paid for at the checkout already, so it is only matter of right combination of numbers.

We wouldn’t like it too high as effectively it might encourage cigarettes stealing for the butts.


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## Nicks (12 October 2006)

I had a similar idea for the cane toad problem. If you offered $1 a toad and a massive fine like $10000 for anyone caught breeding them, I reckon cane toads would get wiped out pretty quickly. Good earner for kids and regional areas.


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## Julia (12 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> I had a similar idea for the cane toad problem. If you offered $1 a toad and a massive fine like $10000 for anyone caught breeding them, I reckon cane toads would get wiped out pretty quickly. Good earner for kids and regional areas.



Nicks,

The notion of anyone actually breeding cane toads is one of the most bizarre
ever!

Julia


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## Happy (12 October 2006)

> $1 a toad




could be a reason enough


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## Bloveld (12 October 2006)

Nicks said:
			
		

> Thanks Bloveld (Steve) for the proof!
> Regarding pulling up random Internet articles, too bad you ignore the thousands of others on the net. I could find a scientific article on the net telling me that eating lard is good for my health or how scratching my ass could cause gangreen. I choose to use my mobile, I dont choose to ingest passive smoke but am often focred to.
> 
> And as Happy says "One of lines of defence, or ridicule of people who would prefer to avoid the smoke." Well in return perhaps go have a smoke, wash it down with a glas of Soy Milk, follow it up with some fried lard and then surf the net for an article on how smoking actually cures Aids, no doubt you'll find one. And hey, if we tell you we dont like smoking and it makes you want to do it more, then aren't you the high school rebel and a tough man.
> ...





Hey looks liked you have quit the soy milk.
Your estrogen levels are dropping.

Funny that you should mention lard. You do know thats its making a comeback. Humans have been eating animal fat for like a million years an then 70 years ago it became the worst thing you could eat.

I remember seeing some news story that passive smoking was worse than actually smoking. I wondered who would believe that. But I guess some people believe anything they read in a paper.

When I was a kid in school I remember reading about the bot fly which could fly faster than the speed of sound. I had my doubts but who was I to argue with scientific fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_botfly

So much for scientific fact.

So you choose to use a mobile phone. I hope you are considerate enough to turn it off in public areas, some people find a mobile ringing very annoying.


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## bunyip (12 October 2006)

I know a woman who rolls her own cigarettes. She told me she smokes only organic tobacco "because it's healthier"!

I laughed so much I thought I was going to collapse!

Bunyip


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## Smurf1976 (12 October 2006)

rocket_science said:
			
		

> bloveld
> 
> I didn't say people can't smoke.  If a guest in my home wants to light up a smoke I ask them to go outside regardless of rain , hail or shine as is my right to do
> 
> ...



Likewise.


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## Bloveld (12 October 2006)

bunyip said:
			
		

> I know a woman who rolls her own cigarettes. She told me she smokes only organic tobacco "because it's healthier"!
> 
> I laughed so much I thought I was going to collapse!
> 
> Bunyip




Is that because she had an opinion different to yours?

Anyway how did you let her get close enough to talk, werent you afraid she was gonna breathe on you?


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## 2020hindsight (12 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Is that because she had an opinion different to yours?



If it wasn't so addictive I'd suggest respectfully that you blokes sit down and smoke a peace pipe.


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## Smurf1976 (12 October 2006)

One unknown smoker has just made me incredibly angry. Right now in Hobart we've got serious fires burning on the Eastern Shore and yesterday we had fires in inner suburbs 2km from the CBD. 

37 degrees, winds close to 100km/h blowing all day and humidity below 10%. A recipe for disaster that ought to be obvious.

So what does some bright person do? Well they throw a lit cigarette out the window of a moving car whilst travelling beside bush that has on at least 2 occasions in the past been the scene of devastating fires. Suffice to say that I haven't been so angry for years.     

Smoke if you want to, it's your business, but don't subject others to the risk of a major disaster due to your own selfishness.


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## 2020hindsight (13 October 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> So what does some bright person do? Well they throw a lit cigarette out the window of a moving car whilst travelling beside bush that has on at least 2 occasions in the past been the scene of devastating fires.



Smurf I remember I met a fire fighter up in NSW when there were bad fires about 4 yrs ago - mad made.  Exhausted, having risked hs life many times in the last few days.  Said they caught one of the culprits.  He said he had two utes - one of which had a rifle  - and his comment?, that blokes luky I had the other ute. 

PS - maybe for a first offence you could ask the bloke to help you put down the burnt horses and other animlas - to say nothing of helping the homeless .


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## Bloveld (15 October 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> One unknown smoker has just made me incredibly angry. Right now in Hobart we've got serious fires burning on the Eastern Shore and yesterday we had fires in inner suburbs 2km from the CBD.
> 
> 37 degrees, winds close to 100km/h blowing all day and humidity below 10%. A recipe for disaster that ought to be obvious.
> 
> ...





Probably about the best reason on this thread to ban tobacco altogether.


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## Bobby (16 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Probably about the best reason on this thread to ban tobacco altogether.



All your posts  seem to be negative,  so now's your chance to show some prowess .


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## soultrader (16 October 2006)

I agree. But in Japan it is estimated that 60% of the population smoke.

Unfortunately I picked up a smoking habit at a very young age. I have been addicted for quite some time now and have tried quitting several times.

"“I have stopped smoking now and then, for a few months at a time, but it was not on principle, it was only to show off; it was to pulverize those critics who said I was a slave to my habits and couldn’t break my bonds.”  - Mark Twain -


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## barney (16 October 2006)

Howdy, My wife was recently in Greece .............. She said that nearly "everybody" smoked .............They were smoking while selling her food from the Dely's etc and the sales people were smoking in the clothes shops (all the "new" clothes reeked of smoke "before" you even bought them!!) Sounds like we're pretty fortunate here in Oz ............ Cheers, Barney.


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## swingstar (16 October 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> 37 degrees, winds close to 100km/h blowing all day and humidity below 10%.




Wow, in Hobart and in October?


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## Bloveld (16 October 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> All your posts  seem to be negative,  so now's your chance to show some prowess .





Prowess: Physical ability for knightly sports including strength, speed, dexterity, training, tactical ability, cunning. In short, martial excellence. Prowess is the basic virtue shared by all martial societies, whether it be excellence in swordsmanship, horsemanship, or in the modern day, movement and marksmanship. Early on these warrior virtues were augmented by additional virtues suggested by the romances and the church, yielding a more rounded gentleman. As late as the Renaissance, Christine de Pisan and Baldassare Castiglione still counted Prowess as an important quality for the courtier.

I would be happy to show you my prowess with pistol or sword.


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## 2020hindsight (16 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> I would be happy to show you my prowess with pistol or sword.



 Dawn then? Seconds? :karate:

Ps what a great bit of romantic nostalgia there Bloveld  Ahh they were the days - You'll get a role in 'Capitan 'Oratio 'Ornblowair" at this rate 

I wonder if its the first duel over cigarette smoke ? unlikely lol.

SIR! That puff of smoke met be in the face squarely - You give me no choice sir!  I demand SATISFACTION! lol
..
Ok mate - have a Winfield!   Take it away Boris.

PS Speaking of getting down to the real meaning of words.  Peter Stuyvesant used to advertise " Peter Stuyvesant !! the sophisticated cigarette!!"  - I knew an old bloke (lay preacher no less, 80 year old in those days)  who wrote to the company and politely pointed out that "Sophisticated" means "adulterated, to make less natural, simple, or ingenuous;  to alter; pervert: to sophisticate a meaning beyond recognition.  "  (true there's a slant that - more recently means worldly, but only by being "unnatural" going back to the roots etc)

He was offered a years supply of Peter S cigs but declined saying he was/used to be a radiologist and had seen too much of the effects of their "sophistication " lol.  They stopped that ad at the same time.


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## professor_frink (16 October 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> I wonder if its the first duel over cigarette smoke ? unlikely lol.



this doesn't quite qualify as a duel, as only one person had a deadly weapon, but it's close enough.

don't mess with smokers! 



> A nightclub bouncer in New York was stabbed to death as he tried to enforce the city's new ban on smoking in bars, police have said.
> 
> Dana Blake, 32, was attacked after ordering two men at the trendy Guernica club in East Village, Manhattan, to put out their cigarettes.
> 
> ...


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## Bobby (16 October 2006)

Bloveld said:
			
		

> Prowess: Physical ability for knightly sports including strength, speed, dexterity, training, tactical ability, cunning. In short, martial excellence. Prowess is the basic virtue shared by all martial societies, whether it be excellence in swordsmanship, horsemanship, or in the modern day, movement and marksmanship. Early on these warrior virtues were augmented by additional virtues suggested by the romances and the church, yielding a more rounded gentleman. As late as the Renaissance, Christine de Pisan and Baldassare Castiglione still counted Prowess as an important quality for the courtier.
> 
> I would be happy to show you my prowess with pistol or sword.




Well Bloveld the above has been your best post to-date.
Congratulations    

Regards 
Bob.


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## Smurf1976 (16 October 2006)

swingstar said:
			
		

> Wow, in Hobart and in October?



Yep. 7% humidity and nearly 100 km/h winds according the official data. The official max. temp was lower (34?) but most thermometers on public buildings, radio stations and mine at home recorded around 37. Incredibly dangerous fire conditions, especially given that it's only October and 37 is pretty extreme weather for Hobart at any time of year.

We all need to treat those throwing lit cigarettes from cars etc as the home grown terrorists they are in my opinion. There's just no excuse and it's common knowledge about the drought, danger of fire under those conditions etc.

Back to the original topic, missus Smurf seems to be feeling rather pleased with herself after someone asked her for a cigarette the other day and she replied "no, sorry, I don't smoke". Took a few moments after that for it to sink in that she is, finally, a non smoker and thinks of herself as such.


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## 2020hindsight (18 October 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> ... and she replied "no, sorry, I don't smoke". ...finally, a non smoker and thinks of herself as such.



Smurf, this is not totally relevant to anything - except it is a good way to think of air - nice clean air.  It's an excerpt from one of AL Gordon's poems ( Australia's first poet) on jumping fences on horseback..  I have posted it before, but heck, there's only so much poetry around of this standard lol, and so - I'm gonna damwell post it again!

"Oh the vigour with which the air is rife !
The spirit of joyous motion;
The fever, the fullness of animal life,
Can be drained from no earthly potion!
The lungs with the living gas grow light, 
and the limbs feel the strength of ten,
While the chest expands with its madd'ning might 
GOD'S GLORIOUS OXYGEN.

Thus the measured stroke, on elastic sward,
Of the steed three parts extended,
Hard held, the breath of his nostrils broad,
With the golden ether blended;
Then the leap, the rise from the springing turf,
The rush through the bouyant air,
And the light shock landing - the veriest serf
Is an emporer then and there.

Im not suggesting you piggy back her all over the place  - nor she you - but.. 
It's a good one to recite as youre jogging     Love that phrase "Gods Glorious Oxygen - capitals by Adam Lindsay G himself.
By the way - if you jog, noone even asks you whether you smoke 

PS you can even recite is as you jump up the curb after crossing a road - people look a bit quizzical if they hear you say ...."the RUSH through the bouyant AIR"  under your breath lol.

PS Congrats to your wife - wish mine would stop    (Or is it I wish she "could" stop  - No I think "would" is the correct word in the final analysis) - at the moment the atitude is "I would if I could but I can't so I wont! - so there)


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## Ruital (7 March 2014)

Nicks said:


> We all know that the governments are hypocrites. They will do whatever they can to get tax, and fuel and cigarettes get a lot of tax.
> 
> Regardless smoking is disgusting and a personal intrusion on my health.
> 
> ...



Better-quality batts and all passthrus have a cutoff routine designed into the battery; less expensive batts leave it out and depend on battery power charger to cut current when the batt is full. This is why you see alerts to charge batts only with that retailer's rechargers. While a top quality batt w/ built-in cutoff can probably be billed with any battery power charger, cheap batts must use an assortment power charger with its own cutoff routine appropriate for that model of batt.


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