# Please teach me everything you know (in one post)



## SmellyTerror (13 September 2009)

Here's a complicated newbie message that's way too long. Sorry in advance. I should also point out that I've read a HEAP of threads here (which are awesome), some books and sites and blogs and newsletters. But I guess that's all compounding the problem at the moment...

What I'm after here is a ten minute post from anyone who might be interested in being my set-and-forget mentor. That is, give me some advice today, and that's it. I'll do the rest. Well ok, I'll probably haunt this place asking questions, but there's no obligation from you to answer them.

I am willing to study for hours a day. I am willing to paper trade for a long time to get the hang of things. I am willing to read everything you tell me to read, spend the money you tell me to spend, and do the hours you tell me to do. I am willing to suck up losses, examine my screwups, and document everything. I might even start a blog so the ASF folk can enjoy my flailings-about, and other newbies can learn what not to do.

I need edumacation, but I am a focused, obsessive freak - which is something of a disadvantage at this stage of my knowledge. I like to jump into something with both feet and learn it to death, not pick away at the edges. My problem here is that I'm a bit cross-eyed with the huge range of options available for trading. There are lots of styles, markets, software packages, systems, instruments, etc. The time and effort that it's going to take just to tick off a bunch of things that won't work for me is depressing - there's such a depth of knowledge required to get a decent handle on anything that's it's hard to tell what I want to obsess about. Sure, a couple of months of study (and I've started, of course) would give me a better feel, but I'd really like to fast track that couple of months and get started on the several years it's going to take to get good at whatever I end up picking. And yeah, I fully expect to move across boundaries a lot once I get any good at something, but I really want to pick something to get good AT first.

You guys know more than me. Please pick on my behalf.

*Me:*

I'm a shift worker, and I'm basically a glorified security guard: I have a lot of free time. That gives me buckets of time to read and study at work, though I can't trade from here (except to duck out once or twice I guess).

That also means that I can't have a consistent time to dedicate to trading each day from home: I have a 1 in 5 chance of being at work at any hour of the day. That does mean, though, that unlike 9-to-5ers I do have a good chunk of business hours to myself.

I have small kids, which will seriously limit my availability during daylight for the next 5 months, but after that they'll be at school during business hours, so I'll have about half of all business hours available to trade. I will always have a good chunk of my nights available: I don't sleep much.

I am willing to quit my job at any time once my trading is good enough to let me do so, but I don't expect that to happen for a long, long time yet. If ever.

I have 60k wandering around the share market at the moment (doing pretty well, but it's been a good time to be long shares so I don't consider that to be down to my abilities), and I have an investment property whose rent currently pays the interest, from which I can draw another 40k (which can be locked in, interest only, at 7% tax-deductible). So call my available capital 100k - but happy to work with less. 

Having said that, sitting on shares is a bit boring - I think I have the time and the dedication to be doing better than pottering about with long trades, and I enjoy hyper-focused optimization stuff (that's what I do at work when work is being fun, and in my hobbies).

I've got 2.5k a month marked as investment money to be added to the pot starting 1st of January. I intend to reinvest everything - I'm aiming to grow my money as fast as I reasonably can, and I don't need any of it to live on.

*You?*

What I'd love to get from a few people here is something like:

"You should look into trading this sort of thing, in this market, using this system and with this software. Here are some good books to read, here's a good blog, and here are some other resources. Make sure you don't do this".

Just keywords will do - I'll look it up (scalp HSI? Ok). Hell, a link where this is already answered would be great.

But if you're willing to go into details, software to use, books to read, markets to get experience in, all of that would really help me shave off a couple of months of faffing about, and I would love you and you'd eventually go to heaven or valhalla or wherever you'd like to go. Probably.


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## GumbyLearner (13 September 2009)




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## SmellyTerror (13 September 2009)

Thanks!

I'm pretty good at belching, actually, but I could always use a refresher.


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## GumbyLearner (13 September 2009)

SmellyTerror said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm pretty good at belching, actually, but I could always use a refresher.




Did you have a laugh?

No, seriously. I found The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham a resourceful read.


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## SmellyTerror (13 September 2009)

Actually, I can't watch videos from work, either, but I was going to watch it when I got home in case it was a cunningly titled investor education seminar. Or funny. Funny will do fine. 

Graham is now on my list. Thanks very much.


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## Rainmaker2000 (13 September 2009)

hehe, it's funny, every work day I walk into my building and see the security guy and think "gees, I like the free time that guys has.......he has the potential to be a better investor than me cause he has so much free reading time"...hehe

You sounds like you want to be a trader..........I have no insights for you......

If you want to invest then, I'm sure I have a long and prosperous reading list for you


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## Mr J (13 September 2009)

> and I'm basically a glorified security guard




So, you're a trader? :



> though I can't trade from here




Cheap laptop plus mobile broadband. Maybe for when you feel more confident in your abilities.



> I'm aiming to grow my money as fast as I reasonably can, and I don't need any of it to live on.




Excellent, as long as you're not overly-aggressive.



> So call my available capital 100k - but happy to work with less.




How much are you willing to lose?



> Having said that, sitting on shares is a bit boring




It's all boring really, but if you have more time then there's no reason to restrict yourself to "investing". You can make far, far more swing trading (or intraday trading).



> You should look into trading this sort of thing, in this market, using this system and with this software. Here are some good books to read, here's a good blog, and here are some other resources. Make sure you don't do this".




Market, I don't know. Stocks have higher commissions and most brokers apparently don't allow short-selling. My preference is futures and forex. I'd look into riding trends, as it's relatively simple and hard to get into trouble. I'd create an account with Interactive Brokers, and use their software with Quotetracker or NinjaTrader.

The do and don't list (very incomplete):

1. Only trade money you're willing and can afford to lose.
2. Use appropriate risk management.
3. Have a plan of how you want a trade to play out, and what actions you will take, *before* you make the trade. 
4. Remain flexible during the trade, but don't deviate from the plan simply due to emotion (such fear of giving up what you have made, or giving it more room than you should).
5. Don't let results get to you. If you don't have a clear mind, don't trade.
6. You will often not be right, and when you are right, you're still often wrong! Leave the ego at the door.
7. No single trade should matter. Each is just a step of thousands you will make along your journey.
8. Be aware that most people only succeed in losing money.
9. You need a reason to enter a trade, a reason to exit one, a reason to stay in one etc. Every action and state requires reason.

I won't recommend any books, as I haven't read any and feel everything you need is already accessible on the net. Read everything you can, no matter how ridiculous.


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## kam75 (13 September 2009)

Can you teach me all you know about security in one post?  
regards


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## tech/a (13 September 2009)

People who are Security Guards ask these types of questions.



> Please teach me everything you know (in one post)




But I get where he is coming from.

Successful people observe Successful people.
My one post.


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## nulla nulla (13 September 2009)

"What is the meaning of life?" the answer is "42".


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## SmellyTerror (14 September 2009)

*Mr J*: thanks very much. Futures is where I'm looking, and your advice is helpful. Specifics and direction, that's exactly what I was after.

I am able to lose all of my capital, since I can make it back. That would hurt and I'd hope to lose _less_, but truthfully I expect losses and I can take them - if I think I'm learning something that I'll stick with long enough to make profitable.

Obviously I'd prefer not to lose ALL of that, but I can.

Sadly, no laptop at work. I'm in a secure area. And that's possibly a problem: "riding trends" - can it be done a couple of days a week? Or a few hours a day? Or is it something I need to sit on all day?

--
*Kam:* actually, yes, pretty much. I can give you a list of half-a-dozen manuals and guide books, point you towards a couple of courses, some websites and advice to help apply for jobs, and some "don't do this" pointers, all of which would get you to being about 50% as capable in my job as I am.

That's what I'm asking for. The title of the post was meant to be teh funni.

---
*tech/a:* I'm not actually a security guard. I just wanted to explain that my job is basically waiting for something to happen. As long as that thing isn't happening, I have some free time for reading and research. It's just not *trading *time.

---
*Everyone:* sorry if this post was a bit of a blurge, or a stupid question. It just seems to me that the newbies around here spend all their time asking all of this, but bit by bit, answered by different people, with conflicting advice. I'm keen to get individual members' veiws as a whole.

I mean, the book threads are great, but if you grab a bunch of books from those you'll find some are about one thing, some about another, many spending some chapters explaining why the others are wrong. I just want to get a coherent view from someone who has something that works.

I can dig through everything there is to know and form a view of my own - and probably will - but to get started I'm keen to just pare it down to a managable portion.


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## bowman (14 September 2009)

> I just wanted to explain that my job is basically waiting for something to happen. As long as that thing isn't happening, I have some free time for reading and research.




You're already perfectly qualified to trade. 

Futures is not my thing so sorry I can't be more helpful.


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## SmellyTerror (14 September 2009)

Well hey, I'm happy to hear about other things. If I knew what I wanted to do I wouldn't have made this thread. 

There are certainly things I haven't even heard of. I only worked out what forex WAS last week, and the number of abbreviations that I can't frown a meaning to contuinues to be vast, even with Investopedia et al.


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## bowman (14 September 2009)

I only trade ASX stocks atm. and I mostly daytrade and trade short term in the speculative end of the mining sector, where moves can be explosive and big gains can be made in a short space of time.

If you wanted to try something like this on the days when you can watch the market in real time, I would first suggest you invest in some charting software with a real time data feed and spend some weeks observing the different ways that these trades can play out. 

Ultimately there's no substitute for observing and analysing as many charts as you can, both in real time and at the end of the day.

There's a ton of charting programs available and I use one from Phoenix AI, which has one feature that I find indispensble. A list of the day's top 100 movers (by price, volume and value) which updates constantly in real time.

You will also need a news feed, ie. ASX announcements as they are released to the market (I think Phoenix has this but I get mine through the CommsecIress trading platform).

Of course you need to pay close attention to metals prices and general mining news. For example the recent stories on China's monopoly of the rare earths area was an absolute gift horse for anyone that was onto the speculative miners in this sector.


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## dutchie (14 September 2009)

nulla nulla said:


> "What is the meaning of life?" the answer is "42".



 Boy am I behind the times - I thought it was 39!!


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## Sir Osisofliver (14 September 2009)

HAHA

Smelly - It's not possible.

Why?

1) What works for me may not work for you because our brains and how we process information is very different. The way that a friend of mine trades (50-100 orders a day, scalping small margin stuff 30 seconds to examine a stock) would do my head in.

2) Self examination - You need to *know* your own style, limitations, self discipline to trade successfully. Self knowledge is very important and it's not something that can be given or taught.

3) Goals - Our goals will be very different. Why do you want to trade? From what you have said below you wish to grow your money as fast as you can.  Know then that TRADING will increase your income (if you do it properly) and all that implies with the tax office whereas INVESTMENT will increase your wealth (if you do it properly) and they are two very different activities.  Make sure you understand the implications of each of these activities.

Cheers

Sir O


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## Mr J (14 September 2009)

SmellyTerror said:
			
		

> Futures is where I'm looking, and your advice is helpful. Specifics and direction, that's exactly what I was after.




The index futures are nice to trade, I'd suggest looking at the HSI, KOSPI and STW for our time zones. I'm not sure how the SPI (asx200) is at the moment, but I guess it's also worth keeping an eye on. The FTSE also provided some good evening opportunities. What hours are you looking to work?



> Obviously I'd prefer not to lose ALL of that, but I can.




That's fine. The important thing is to be able to take the losses so it doesn't affect your trading.



> And that's possibly a problem: "riding trends" - can it be done a couple of days a week? Or a few hours a day? Or is it something I need to sit on all day?




Trends occur on all timeframes - minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years. I would say it's reasonably low maintenance if you're swing trading (holding for days to weeks).



> sorry if this post was a bit of a blurge, or a stupid question.




It's only as stupid as the responses you get.



> There are certainly things I haven't even heard of. I only worked out what forex WAS last week, and the number of abbreviations that I can't frown a meaning to contuinues to be vast, even with Investopedia et al.




Every occupation has its own language! Trading is okay though, and I don't think I use any abbreviations, apart from currency pairs. I also keep my trading relatively simple, and don't really need a lot of jargon.



> Self knowledge is very important and it's not something that can be given or taught.




The most insightful yet least helpful statement in this thread (as it cannot be given or taught) :.


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## Tradesurfer (15 September 2009)

When doing coaching sessions- I always suggest printing out and saving the following questions:

 What will I Trade?

What time frame will I use?

What will be my entry and exit criteria?

How will I determine and manage risk?

How much will I trade?

How will I measure success?

There are plenty of approaches. Think about how your personality will lend itself to one of them.


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## craigj (20 September 2009)

as a fellow newbie i recommend to trade in what you are confident in
focus on one area and learn how the market behaves
if you have spare time at work focus on finding 1 trade that will make you $200 in a day
start from there and then build up


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## SmellyTerror (20 September 2009)

Well the idea of the thread was to get some suggestions for which one thing to concentrate on that might be suited to my situation. I mean, I don't know anything, so how do I pick the first thing to learn? It'll just be random. And if I do, say, pick HSI futures day-trading to get a handle on, but then pick up a book on futures that goes in depth into how long people have to deliver the grain at the end of the contract and how much storage and transport costs, well, I don't know if that helps me. Maybe it does, or maybe I'm wasting my time. Should I be studying how the price calculation is effected by the grade of product that shows up on the delivery date if I'm only in any contract for a few ticks, and probably trading with HSI futures anyway? Somehow I doubt it, but at this stage I'm not really in a position to judge. Maybe there's a better book, but no-one has told me about it.

The idea was to find people who know stuff that works for them, and have them tell me how to learn the same stuff reasonably efficiently (and then for me to be pathetically grateful for their free help). I don't know if what you do will work for me until I learn it, but without some guidance on HOW to learn it, or even *what it is*, I'm stuck with something close to random.

As I mentioned, I like optimisation. Well, apart from text. Never quite got how to write short posts... sorry.

I guess I'm not communicating very well, but a lot more reading around has helped. *Thanks very much for everyone who made suggestions* - there were a lot of very good ones that have sent me off to look at things, even if I seem to have confused a lot of other people.


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## drillinto (21 September 2009)

In eleven letters: BHP Billiton


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## nunthewiser (21 September 2009)

drillinto said:


> In eleven letters: BHP Billiton




short ?


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## SmellyTerror (21 September 2009)

> In eleven letters: BHP Billiton




Yeah, a large part of the money I have to invest is testament to the ease of making it grow as the market climbs out of a pit. Give me conditions like this forever and I don't need to know anything else.

...but I figure I better learn how to fish.


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## Wysiwyg (1 August 2011)

This post by Mr. Howard Bandy is worth knowing.  



howardbandy said:


> Greetings all--
> 
> Developing trading systems that are profitable is very hard.
> 
> ...


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## ENP (4 August 2011)

You said "sitting on shares is a bit boring"

So do you want to become a trader just for "something to do" or because you think you can out perform buy and hold after tax, brokerage, etc?

I constantly thought you had to be doing something everyday, making the big trades, I got itchy feet because I wasn't active in the sharemarket every week. But now I look back on it, if you are invested in good companies that are making you money, you are happy to be invested in them, then inactivity is sometimes the best.


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