# Buying Loose Diamonds



## investorpaul (24 September 2009)

Does anyone know where I can buy certified loose diamonds?

I.E. Where does a jeweller go to buy their diamonds at wholesale prices and what quantity would you need to buy to have access to this market.

Any help/info would be appreciated as I like the idea of buying diamonds seeing as demand as dropped off over the last 12 or so months due to the GFC


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## jono1887 (24 September 2009)

investorpaul said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy certified loose diamonds?
> 
> I.E. Where does a jeweller go to buy their diamonds at wholesale prices and what quantity would you need to buy to have access to this market.
> 
> Any help/info would be appreciated as I like the idea of buying diamonds seeing as demand as dropped off over the last 12 or so months due to the GFC




you can get them at large jewelers.. I remember my mum looking at some at paramatta westfields - Nader I think, the one that got robbed last year. They were starting at 200k a piece if i recall correctly... (but jewelers margins here in Aust are crazy high)

But the diamond market is heavily over priced here in Aust... to get in at a decent price, you need to buy at certain points of the diamond market - Hong Kong would be a good place or some places in Europe. But for this you need contacts and a good knowledge/eye for diamonds or you could end up getting seriously ripped off.

I know loose stones in Indonesia can be obtained at about half the price you'd get at a retailer here. I'd assume you'd need to be buying more than just half a dozen stones to get a price better than retail.


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## swm79 (24 September 2009)

jono1887 said:


> you can get them at large jewelers.. I remember my mum looking at some at paramatta westfields - Nader I think, the one that got robbed last year. They were starting at 200k a piece if i recall correctly... (but jewelers margins here in Aust are crazy high)
> 
> But the diamond market is heavily over priced here in Aust... to get in at a decent price, you need to buy at certain points of the diamond market - Hong Kong would be a good place or some places in Europe. But for this you need contacts and a good knowledge/eye for diamonds or you could end up getting seriously ripped off.
> 
> I know loose stones in Indonesia can be obtained at about half the price you'd get at a retailer here. I'd assume you'd need to be buying more than just half a dozen stones to get a price better than retail.




Hi IP

i dont know if this will help but try: http://www.diamondexchange.com.au/

quite a few jewellers get there diamonds from there.

if i was still with my ex i might be able to help you more - her father is a successful multi-store jeweller in Florida


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## homerj (24 September 2009)

Hi Investorpaul

If you send me an email I can pass your details to my partner - he is a jeweller and buys certified diamonds from all over the world at great prices


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## nevieboy (24 September 2009)

investorpaul said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy certified loose diamonds?
> 
> I.E. Where does a jeweller go to buy their diamonds at wholesale prices and what quantity would you need to buy to have access to this market.
> 
> Any help/info would be appreciated as I like the idea of buying diamonds seeing as demand as dropped off over the last 12 or so months due to the GFC




Yeah you can buy heaps and really cheap on most of the tourist beachs in Thailand.


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## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

homerj said:


> Hi Investorpaul
> 
> If you send me an email I can pass your details to my partner - he is a jeweller and buys certified diamonds from all over the world at great prices





no offense intended 

now me being the cynical type, i am looking at this post in an extremly suspicious view , a first time poster offering to take your details when IP has made it clear he looking to squirrel away a lil slush fund and got cash to spend ....... now call me paranoid but im of the thoughts that wouldnt it be easy to create a "set up" in this manner 

but yes im paranoid and believe white picket fences and slush funds built with untraceable stones dont go hand in hand ...... 

depends on ones view on the world i spose ......... im not the trusting type when it comes to details and cold hard cash 

but thats just me 

like i said no offense intended and maybe you are offering genuine help


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## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

but hey ............

i have 3000 posts now and reckon you should be able to trust me 

so please pm ALL your details , including address and daytime phone numbers and i,ll see what i can do withem


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## Timmy (24 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> but thats just me




Nun, I am shocked, and stunned, that you would distrust someone over the internet.


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## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

Timmy said:


> Nun, I am shocked, and stunned, that you would distrust someone over the internet.




yes i know mate , i had a paranoid moment there for a minute ...must have been them cookies ......... its my dark side coming out again .... as if anyone would want to rip off there fellow man .

please ignore my previous posts as i have just realised the internet is a genuine and friendly place where no deceit ever happens 

as you were


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## Timmy (24 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> as you were




OK then.

Now, does anyone know how I can quickly transfer cash to Nigeria?


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## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

Timmy said:


> OK then.
> 
> Now, does anyone know how I can quickly transfer cash to Nigeria?




yes my partner is an international currency dealer . he has informed me to meet you behind the " victoria hotel" in yarraville in an hour to arrange a direct transfer . please bring the cash in a black briefcase

i have 3000 posts .......... you can trust me


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## investorpaul (24 September 2009)

Yer dont worry nun, I didnt trust the guy with one post either


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## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

investorpaul said:


> Yer dont worry nun, I didnt trust the guy with one post either





its not that ..they MAY be genuine ...... but i think it would be safer and more proper if they gave you THERE details so you could check em out properly BEFORE you told them diddly about where you are etc etc ...... 

im just paranoid when it comes to cash and wheeling and dealing


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## Putty7 (24 September 2009)

lol I am a newbie but have gleaned and learned a lot from this site, thanks to everyone for their contributions and hard work, like your style nun ( still lol )


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## Putty7 (24 September 2009)

By the way I used to work for RIO and part of the wage package when they owned Argyle was to be able to buy diamonds at a discount from Argyle in Perth, other companies may have similar policies so if you know someone who works in Diamond mining might be another way to go but as mentioned before Diamonds in Australia are already over priced


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## whereu (24 September 2009)

Here is a South African based Internet. 

http://www.diamondcorporation.co.za/

No guarantees given or implied

Good luck.


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## Putty7 (24 September 2009)

My apologies, Rio Tinto still own Argyle Diamonds, I noticed in the morningstar market report today that Rio Tinto were talking up diamonds and the diamond market, the Argyle site www.argylediamonds.com.au also has some useful advice about selecting diamonds, havent worked for Rio for about4 yrs, should have checked first before posting.


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## Temjin (25 September 2009)

Make very sure you get the proper certifications on the diamonds you purchased from anyone. No, not the ones certified by the seller, but the ones certified by International Diamond Council labs. If the seller can't do this, forget it. 

There are plenty of scammers out there who will do anything to rip you off. So do the extra due diligence before you make the purchase. It's ok to be paranoid too.


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## homerj (25 September 2009)

I agree with nunthewiser - I re-read my post and it did sound a bit sus!! 

I have just been looking on this website as a complete newbie with not a lot to contribute and trying to find information about stock trading and saw the post and thought I could help out. I totally agree with not being able to trust people on the net. 

I was genuinely trying to help out but then again with only 2 posts maybe still not enough to trust 

No offence taken at all


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## Ageo (25 September 2009)

Ok 1st thing is 1st wholesalers wont sell to anyone who isnt in the jewellery industry so loose diamonds are only available from jewellers and other diamond shops like diamond exchange etc......

The thing with diamonds is most people including jewellers have no idea what quality the diamond is hence they rely on the certificate but the problem here is i have seen too many certificates swapped and matched to a similar property diamond.

My suggestion is if the diamond looks nice to the naked eye for the price then buy it.

I deal with diamonds every day and i still dont know how to grade them well, knowing what your after in terms of shape and quality is a good place to start.

Pawn shops are another place that may have loose stones that you can grab a bargain but again you need to understand what your buying.


If your after a certain stone PM me and ill see what i can come up with.


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## trainspotter (25 September 2009)

investorpaul said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy certified loose diamonds?
> 
> I.E. Where does a jeweller go to buy their diamonds at wholesale prices and what quantity would you need to buy to have access to this market.
> 
> Any help/info would be appreciated as I like the idea of buying diamonds seeing as demand as dropped off over the last 12 or so months due to the GFC




Jewellers have at least 300% markup on their wares. How many stones and what quantity, quality and how many $$$ do you want to spend?

1 carat brilliant cut F/G VVS in a white? A pouch of I Si 20 pointers?

Exactly what are you trying to achieve?

I can recommend Ageo as a source (or he knows someone) as he deals in them every day.


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## adobee (25 September 2009)

Ageo said:


> Ok 1st thing is 1st wholesalers wont sell to anyone who isnt in the jewellery industry so loose diamonds are only available from jewellers and other diamond shops like diamond exchange etc......
> 
> The thing with diamonds is most people including jewellers have no idea what quality the diamond is hence they rely on the certificate but the problem here is i have seen too many certificates swapped and matched to a similar property diamond.
> 
> ...




This is a major concern !!!

I am looking at engagement rings at the moment ... (Dont ask why!) however I have a very large dilema .. everyone seems to have a mate who is a jeweller who will look after me ... and then the othe jeweller off the street will also look after me and give me a 'valuation certificate' so I know I am not getting ripped ...

How does one actually get good value for money in this Jewellery game ? One being someone has no idea about diamonds.. cant tell the difference between a piece of cut glass and a diamond and prepared to hand over his hard earned cash on a basis of good will ??  Can you ask to take the ring to a second jeweller for an opinion ??  I am not even looking for a 'good deal' or to be looked after.. I am justing wanting to know that when I hand over my hard earned $$$ I get what I pay for ...


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## trainspotter (25 September 2009)

adobee said:


> This is a major concern !!!
> 
> I am looking at engagement rings at the moment ... (Dont ask why!) however I have a very large dilema .. everyone seems to have a mate who is a jeweller who will look after me ... and then the othe jeweller off the street will also look after me and give me a 'valuation certificate' so I know I am not getting ripped ...
> 
> How does one actually get good value for money in this Jewellery game ? One being someone has no idea about diamonds.. cant tell the difference between a piece of cut glass and a diamond and prepared to hand over his hard earned cash on a basis of good will ??  Can you ask to take the ring to a second jeweller for an opinion ??  I am not even looking for a 'good deal' or to be looked after.. I am justing wanting to know that when I hand over my hard earned $$$ I get what I pay for ...




A good jeweller will give you a valuation certificate as well as a "Certificate of Authenticity" for the diamond. The diamond should also be laser inscribed and be visible with a jewellers loop.


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## adobee (25 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> A good jeweller will give you a valuation certificate as well as a "Certificate of Authenticity" for the diamond. The diamond should also be laser inscribed and be visible with a jewellers loop.




I will question this when the guy with a briefcase and beretta comes back to my hotel room..


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## trainspotter (25 September 2009)

adobee said:


> I will question this when the guy with a briefcase and beretta comes back to my hotel room..




LOL ... prolly better off getting a laboratory made diamond from Nexus Labs or similar. Cubic Zirconia from ebay looks just as good. There are man made diamonds for 1/10th the cost but cannot get much bigger than .25 carat.

I have a 1 carat solitaire diamond ring in my shop for $6,000. It is a J Si slight yellow.


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## Ageo (25 September 2009)

There is really only 3 options you can go with:

* go with someone you know whos in the game and you can trust so you dont get ripped.

* go with a designer jeweller and pay through the teeth and hope you dont get ripped.

* go with another joe blow and pray again.

My cousin wanted a tiffany style ring 

* Tiffany qouted him 18ct white gold with a .15point brilliant decent stone for $3000


* i Got him the same ring with a .75 point brilliant excellent stone for the same price.

But sometimes people just want others to know there ring came from a big name and thats the whole point of jewellery as it targets vain people.


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## jono1887 (25 September 2009)

Ageo said:


> My suggestion is if the diamond looks nice to the naked eye for the price then buy it.
> 
> I deal with diamonds every day and i still dont know how to grade them well, knowing what your after in terms of shape and quality is a good place to start.
> 
> Pawn shops are another place that may have loose stones that you can grab a bargain but again you need to understand what your buying.




Really? Its not that hard to determine colour and clarity if you have some experience and a chart to compare it to.


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## Ageo (26 September 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Really? Its not that hard to determine colour and clarity if you have some experience and a chart to compare it to.





Jono i could tell you a stone is roughly VS or SI with a G-H colour for e.g but its much more than that, the cut of the stone is the most important and thats where most people have no idea.

An Ideal cut stone will show off heaps more properties than a good cut stone. The problem is thow people go off whatever the certificate says but sometimes its not the case is all im saying.


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## HC Victim (26 September 2009)

Perth Mint , any size ,any colour ,and mainly Argyle, but some others . All crertified, also handy if you want to sell 'em later on. Havev some smokin' pinks in stock as well if you have 25 grand lying about...:


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## jono1887 (26 September 2009)

HC Victim said:


> Perth Mint , any size ,any colour ,and mainly Argyle, but some others . All crertified, also handy if you want to sell 'em later on. Havev some smokin' pinks in stock as well if you have 25 grand lying about...:




Hmm.. Does anyone know how they get their colour??


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## adobee (29 September 2009)

HC Victim said:


> Perth Mint , any size ,any colour ,and mainly Argyle, but some others . All crertified, also handy if you want to sell 'em later on. Havev some smokin' pinks in stock as well if you have 25 grand lying about...:




http://www.perthmint.com.au/catalogue/default.aspx?SearchKeyword=diamond

I cant find any stones on here ????


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## adobee (29 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> LOL ... prolly better off getting a laboratory made diamond from Nexus Labs or similar. Cubic Zirconia from ebay looks just as good. There are man made diamonds for 1/10th the cost but cannot get much bigger than .25 carat.
> 
> I have a 1 carat solitaire diamond ring in my shop for $6,000. It is a J Si slight yellow.




J Si  ??? Please explain ?

 Cubic Zirconia from ebay looks just as good.  Your telling ME!

With all seriousness... If I am looking to spend say $15k
what is the quality, size, colours one should expect for this sort of money ??


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## Green08 (29 September 2009)

I've been buying the best in Singapore at the gem shows, far more upmarket than it sounds.

I bought my first very lovely ones 3 years ago. Cost @$3,000 had them assessed at a well known jeweller in Syd. now insured for $6,500.

Depends on your luck, negotiation, knowledge and smile.

Good luck and smile


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## trainspotter (29 September 2009)

J represents the colour - slight yellow brown tinge

Si represents the clarity - Slight Inclusions (almost visible to the naked eye)

15K on a diamond will give you SERIOUS quality solitaire. 1 carat PLUS and VVS and E or F brilliant white.


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## Green08 (29 September 2009)

If you can buy a little platinum soo much yummier.

If you can obtain a fire star glass....it will help you check the cut etc......


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## nulla nulla (29 September 2009)

Cut, Clarity, Carats & Colour. Buy them wholesale from an acredited diamond dealer. Get them mounted into a setting of your wifes choice. An investment that wil last you a lifetime. The rewards are endless......


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## Green08 (29 September 2009)

I think taking your best Jewish friend with a good eye will help...


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## Ageo (30 September 2009)

This is straight from 1 of my dealers price list

Round 1.01 D VVS2 GIA $15,250.00 6.52*3.93 VG/VG/G/N

Round 2.03 E SI1 GIA $11,390.00 8.14*5.03 VG/G/G/N 

Noticed the 2 carat stone is cheaper than a 1 carat?

The clarity is higher on the 1 carat yes but take a look at the cut and measurements, this is what i mean about people have no idea when pricing a stone.

That 2 carat stone i could have it made and ready to go for $12,000, most jewellers would charge 20-25k minimum.

P.S the brilliant (round) is the most expensive shape diamond.


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## adobee (30 September 2009)

http://www.graysonline.com/Lot.aspx?id=4046943

How does this stack up in the eyes of a person with diamond knowledge ?
Are the RRP accurate or a con ? Is Jacobs a known brand ?
Will my gf kill me if she finds out I bought the ring at an auction ?


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## Ageo (30 September 2009)

adobee said:


> http://www.graysonline.com/Lot.aspx?id=4046943
> 
> How does this stack up in the eyes of a person with diamond knowledge ?
> Are the RRP accurate or a con ? Is Jacobs a known brand ?
> Will my gf kill me if she finds out I bought the ring at an auction ?




LOL rubbish, better off buying a top CZ ring and much cheaper.

P.S i would never buy something online without seeing it, thats just my personal opinion


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## trainspotter (30 September 2009)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz ............. Go with Ageo. He knows what he is talking about.

OR ..... Buy a Nexus Lab man made stone of about 1 carat for $400 and spend the rest on a holiday. You must really, really like your gf to spend that kind of coin on a rock.


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## Ageo (30 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz ............. Go with Ageo. He knows what he is talking about.
> 
> OR ..... Buy a Nexus Lab man made stone of about 1 carat for $400 and spend the rest on a holiday. You must really, really like your gf to spend that kind of coin on a rock.




Yep Nexus make some fantastic looking stones which most people wont pick up to the naked eye.


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## insider (30 September 2009)

nevieboy said:


> Yeah you can buy heaps and really cheap on most of the tourist beachs in Thailand.




Hahaha... I wouldn't Some dude came up to me trying to sell some "diamonds" and I said I'm a jeweller and they're not diamonds... He walked away very fast into a shop...


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## adobee (30 September 2009)

Ageo said:


> LOL rubbish, better off buying a top CZ ring and much cheaper.
> 
> P.S i would never buy something online without seeing it, thats just my personal opinion




really ... I thought grays had a pretty good rep, I would have felt more confident buying from them than a sleazy jeweller in the city ... Its not ebay ?


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## insider (30 September 2009)

Honestly don't try and pass off a CZ or a "simulated Diamond" (same thing) as a Diamond... I know girls they will test it... All they need is one jeweller to cast doubt on it... And when they find out which they will, it will be your balls...


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## trainspotter (30 September 2009)

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P97816.asp

http://www.manmadediamondinfo.com/

Do the research.

I purchased a 1.2 carat Nexus Lab (man made) diamond and showed it to a gemologist mate of mine. He was incredulous with the quality. Wife loves it as well. She was happy I had not blown 15k on a stone but took her and the kids to Bali for a month with the savings.


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## satanoperca (30 September 2009)

Interesting thread. I asked my wife if she wanted a new diamond ring for christmas or a holiday overseas and a man made diamond which for all intended purposes achieved the same result but at a far reduced cost.

Her words, why waste your money on a real diamond if the majority of people cannot tell the difference, they are both just stones that shine. I take the man made stone and the trip overseas.

A sensible woman if you ask me.


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## adobee (30 September 2009)

just noticed there was a diamond website advertised at the top of this thread.. where you can build your own...

http://au.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?action=add&pid=LD00407166&forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP


I still think this looks preety good.. might throw in a bid..
http://www.graysonline.com/Lot.aspx?id=4046943


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## Nyden (30 September 2009)

Bluenile are waaaay too expensive, at least for what you get.


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## Ageo (30 September 2009)

adobee said:


> I still think this looks preety good.. might throw in a bid..
> http://www.graysonline.com/Lot.aspx?id=4046943




lol each to their own but that ring is chinese made rubbish.

Have a look at the main stone properties 

Make: Good = rubbish
Dimensions: 6.9 x 6.9 x 4.1mm = most likely shallow which will throw off hardly any light
Culet: fine pointed
Weight: 1.22ct
Girdle: Medium faceted 
Colour/Clarity: K-L/P1 = lol a joke you can see major facets with the naked eye and yellow tinge to the colour.
Depth: 59%
Note: Ring size: M


If you want i can sell you something much better for less that what that will go for PM me


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## adobee (9 December 2009)

Rather than starting a new diamond thread I thought I may as well keep posting on this one.. So I am getting serious on a diamond purchase. I have read alot of info on the four C's etc etc but it all goes in and out..  If only I had a good mate who was a jeweller..

Can anyone tell me if the following are reputable places to have certificates from or just computer print outs as the guy I am favoring has them .. being

"certificate from *HRD, IGI or GIA*. Most of our diamonds are also laser inscribed on the girdle for added security and piece of mind."

Cause I noticed another place which has *DCLA *certification...
http://www.dcla.com.au/

Which one do I want DCLA or GIA   HED or IGI ?


So these are the two companies I am favouring at the moment to have an initial chat to..

http://www.maxdiamonds.com.au/About-Max.html

http://www.affinitydiamonds.com.au/diamond-search.aspx


If any one has dealt with them knows anything about them, heard of them or can give any feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

I am thinking to spend say $12k if anyone can give the heads up on what this should purchase (looking for single stone on a ring) it would be greatly appreciated ..

Cheers !


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## Ageo (9 December 2009)

adobee said:


> Rather than starting a new diamond thread I thought I may as well keep posting on this one.. So I am getting serious on a diamond purchase. I have read alot of info on the four C's etc etc but it all goes in and out..  If only I had a good mate who was a jeweller..
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the following are reputable places to have certificates from or just computer print outs as the guy I am favoring has them .. being
> 
> ...




GIA, then DCLA then the rest is usually the case with certification.

Get the best price you can and tell me exactly what your after (along with pics). And ill see what i can do.


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## jono1887 (10 December 2009)

haha.. just noticed the add on the bottom of this thread is diamond related.. :


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## skc (10 December 2009)

adobee said:


> Rather than starting a new diamond thread I thought I may as well keep posting on this one.. So I am getting serious on a diamond purchase. I have read alot of info on the four C's etc etc but it all goes in and out..  If only I had a good mate who was a jeweller..
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the following are reputable places to have certificates from or just computer print outs as the guy I am favoring has them .. being
> 
> ...




I purchased my diamond in Hong Kong several years ago and found them to be substantially cheaper than local outfits. With the Aussie being quite strong I'd imagine the differential would be greater. 

For your reference, it was a 0.56ct, D colour, VSI, brilliant round cut, GIA cert, girdle inscription.. and paid $HK15,000 (~$2200 at today's rate).

With your budget you might as well take a holiday there if they are in fact cheaper.


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## adobee (11 December 2009)

Ageo..  I know previously you said these were rubbish..

but what about this one ? 

*5ct  ... WTF ????*
This would make my gf have an ...  let alone her friends ... themselves

*http://www.graysonline.com/Lot.aspx?id=4326862*


Or is this just full rubbish ? ?


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## Ageo (13 December 2009)

adobee said:


> Ageo..  I know previously you said these were rubbish..
> 
> but what about this one ?
> 
> ...





Adobee there are 2 types of stones you can get for a similar price. Smaller that are high quality or larger for crappy quality. 

If your gonna get a stone like that then just get a nexus lab fake which will look much better.


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## nulla nulla (22 December 2009)

I have been meaning to come back to you on this thread for a little while. I have bought loose diamonds for my wife in the past from wholesalers, then had them set in a setting designed/chosen by my wife. All at significant saving to retail prices.

I saw this story which you may find interesting:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/di...last-holiday-season-2009-12-21?dist=bigcharts

There are several "online" Diamond sellers in Australia. This lot are reasonable http://www.ancardi.com.au/ which come with  GIA certification. 10% deposit then pay the balance subject to final inspection. The GIA serial number is inscribed on the girdle of each stone.

I wouldn't recommend diamonds as an investment though. If you try to sell them second hand you are lucky to recover 30% of the purchase price, mainly because the buyer will want to be able to sell them at a discount and still make a profit.


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## mrdouble08 (29 April 2010)

Adobee - You can have both, excellent quality (4 Cs + good girdle, depth, table, cut, polish and fluroscence) with size however you will pay a bucket load. Are you still searching? 15k still the mark for the whole ring?


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