# Newbie with a grand



## bluelabel (13 September 2008)

Hello all,

I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.  


Cherrs

:bier:


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## mazzatelli1000 (13 September 2008)

bluelabel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.
> 
> ...




A start would be to get an idea of what product you would like to trade.
Shares?
Futures?
Options?
CFD's?
Bonds?

Once you have decided on that --- its time to get better education on each product and how to trade them.
That would be a start.


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## Sean K (13 September 2008)

For a newbie, its probably shares.

Id wait for an uptrend before committing, or be prepared to watch your 1K go down for a bit longer.

Although, you could count that as education.

Depending on your age, education, and lifestyle, putting that 1K towards an around the world air ticket, may reap greater rewards....

If you are teens or early 20s, there is plenty of time to take money off other people on the stockmarket.  

But, as I said, we are all in different stages of life. 

Alternatively, you could donate 1K to a Vipassana buddhist meditation retreat and be more enriched!

Or, go to the casino and put it all on black!!!!


But, maybe youve thought of all that and you want to put it in the market.

Good luck while itś trending down.


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## mazzatelli1000 (13 September 2008)

kennas said:


> Depending on your age, education, and lifestyle, putting that 1K towards an around the world air ticket, may reap greater rewards....
> 
> Good luck while itś trending down.




Travelling would be a good investment of that $1,000.

Though it is good to start in the share market early

You don't want to be one of these OLD people


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## tech/a (13 September 2008)

One of the biggest mistakes in trading is undercapitalization.

Keep your grand (If you blow it in a few days/weeks/months) it could have a negative impact on how you view Share trading/investment.

Learn all you can (took me 3 yrs to proficiency and 5 to be consistently profitable.) and trade by simulation---there are many platforms that will allow you a trial account with a bogus starting balance.

_Everytime you read something on a forum which is in your view of value save it in a special folder for quick reference later (You'll never find it if you leave in on a thread and forget 99% of brilliant snippets)._

Work at building your bank.
Its my belief that you shouldnt commit more than 10% of your nett worth to trading.
The reason being that by keeping the initial capital to an amount which is handlable---negates a lot of the psychological errors traders make when under financial stress.

Minumum trading capital *in my view* $20K.


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## johenmo (13 September 2008)

tech/a said:


> _Everytime you read something on a forum which is in your view of value save it in a special folder for quick reference later (You'll never find it if you leave in on a thread and forget 99% of brilliant snippets)._
> 
> Minumum trading capital *in my view* $20K.




I think this says it all for someone new.  Especially in this market. A couple of shares went ok, and  I have paper-invested for a while and all went well - the bull market gave me a false sense of security.  So when I invested a few months ago when it showed a (temp) upturn, I got caught in a couple of stocks.

We are well under 10% and 20 K is what I've started with but not all is invested - came to senses and stopped.

I have to say if I had suffered this earlier (a couple of years back) I would have given it away.  I now know that I was poorly prepared and have gained heaps from ASF.  I am middle-aged but there is still plenty of time.  With this market I have now allowed myself some months to "get to grips with the basics".

I see the market like stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson - if you're not ready in all ways you're going to get battered!

As tech/a infers, you have to be able to weather the storms - financially *and * psychologically.

Save the snippets - I do and it's great for reference.  There's a post from tech/a that is a must read. 

"The best I've seen on ANY Forum!"
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864


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## Sean K (13 September 2008)

tech/a said:


> Keep your grand (If you blow it in a few days/weeks/months) it could have a negative impact on how you view Share trading/investment.



Yes, agree, my first couple of investments in 95/6 went  very well, and therefore I had a very positive outlook even after going through the late 90s....

However, we may be getting back to a time when there will be an amazing entry point...

Bloody hope so....


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## Timmy (13 September 2008)

tech/a said:


> One of the biggest mistakes in trading is undercapitalization.




Just highilight this.

$1,000 is not much capital.  If you really want to get started with this amount you MUST have a method which minimises drawdowns; you cannot afford much of a drawdown with $1,000.  I would go so far as to say that proper position sizing/money management is not possible with this amount, but I wont because nothing is impossible - but you will have to be *very good *to be able to trade with just $1,000 capital.

Lots of great advice on this thread so far, take advantage of it.


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## CAB SAV (13 September 2008)

Forget paper trades etc, have a go, buy $1,000 worth of bank shares, collect the divs.
Or you can back Geelong for the flag and have $2,000 to invest.


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## Tysonboss1 (13 September 2008)

If you only have a $1K I would probally put it into somthing that is paying a dividend with a dividend reinvestment plan and also has a good chance of steady capital growth.

I would then focus my efforts on changing my earning / spending habits so that you can start to save more of your weekly pay (over 10% is a good rule of thumb). This is probally the area that will help you increase your portfoilio the most in the begining.

Once you have built up a larger capital base and learned more about how share prices move then you can start to trade with a portion of your portfoilio.

Remember the golden rule to wealth is to "spend less than you earn and invest the difference in income producing growth assets". Take along hard look at how much you are earning and how much you are spending, and figure out ways of decreasing spending.


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## bluelabel (13 September 2008)

Hi All,

Thanks very much for your input on this, I greatly appreciate it.  As far as amounts go, I realise that $1000 is not much to start, but that is the challenge I am looking for.   

I have just created a new folder called snippets and am about to go cutting and pasting.

Also a big thanks for the clarification on dividends vs. capital growth, I was leaning toward something with good dividend payout, and banks were high on the list, actually the top, so it was good to get that feedback with out actually asking for it.

Now, just another question in regards to dividends, is it the EPS figure that I am looking for that gives me an ideal of future divided payouts, or actually now that I think, that is for capital growth, change that to do I look at budgeted earnings and profit and loss statements to give an idea of what the dividend should be or is there some other way?

Oh, and the holiday is already on the agenda...

Thanks again, everyone’s input is appreciated.

Cheers

:bier:


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## jeflin (13 September 2008)

Buy some investment books and learn about value investments before committing your money. 

By the time you finish reading the books, the market will be about ripe for some juicy pickings.


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## Greg71 (13 September 2008)

Buy a course.


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## kam75 (13 September 2008)

bluelabel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.
> 
> ...





You need to wrap some good risk and money management rules around the money you'll trade with.  That's the secret of successful trading.  1k is not enough to do this.  Try to save up at least 8 or 10k and in the meantime develop your rules on how you will control your losses and manage your trading capital.  

For example, with a 10k account, you could set up some rules to follow -  Diversify into 3 or 4 stocks and risk no more than 2 or 3% of your account on any one trade.  This means that you would have to find suitable opportunities where the trade risk is no more than $250-300 per trade as determined by your stoploss.

Regards
kam75
_____________________________
http://www.sharesmadeeasy.com


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## Shrewd Crude (13 September 2008)

I do not condone stealing from grandparents... thats lower than low...

.^sc


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## Whiskers (13 September 2008)

Tysonboss1 said:


> If you only have a $1K I would probally put it into somthing that is paying a dividend with a dividend reinvestment plan and also has a good chance of steady capital growth.
> 
> *I would then focus my efforts on changing my earning / spending habits so that you can start to save more of your weekly pay* (over 10% is a good rule of thumb). This is probally the area that will help you increase your portfoilio the most in the begining.
> 
> ...




Regardless of whatever else you do I would endorse the philosophy of 'spend less than you earn', especially at a younger age. 

Too often that's why people fall into poverty and business fails... they just got carried away with the income side of the P&L sheet and forgot about the expenses.


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## brty (13 September 2008)

Hi,

Tech has already stated it, way undercapitalised.

If your brokerage was $20 a side, buying then selling a mistake gives you a 4% loss before you have started. If you are going to trade then 4-5 losses in a row would eat your capital even with a 3-5% stop.

Sorry but you are wasting your time and money with one grand.

I would have 5 times your starting stake in books alone about investment styles/types/methodologies. Spend your money on education (books not courses), and save until you have something reasonable, that won't kill you if you lose it, again Tech's $20k is probably about right.

Then when you have an inkling of what the market is about you may have a chance.

brty


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## mazzatelli1000 (13 September 2008)

Greg71 said:


> Buy a course.




Books are better IMHO


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## noirua (13 September 2008)

bluelabel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.
> Cherrs
> :bier:



I suppose a grand isn't worth investing unless you go in for a bit of high risk investing.  It could be very boring if you don't.
Find four bombed out mining stocks and there are loads about now. Do loads of your own research.
Don't forget the uranium minnows. 

The above always supposes you wont be a forced seller and don't mind being locked in for a while - good luck noi


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## Big_Daz (13 September 2008)

Have a look at this website (by NO means take itas gospel) but this will get you thinking about some of the options out there that you may not have thought were available to you

http://www.compareshares.com.au/black31.php

My advice would be to invest into a managed fun if you only have $1k and make regular contributions....

Then once you get your head around stocks start investing in blue chips then start to look at being a little clever and invest in higher risk stocks.


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## ronnieling (14 September 2008)

A grand would buy at least a years subscription to the Financial Review 

$1k is probably too little to make it worthwhile actively trading stocks, brokerage will start to kill you. If you take an optimistic medium/long-term outlook; Australian shares haven't been cheaper for two years. Getting in now and being prepared to see some further downside isn't a bad approach to start seeing some real gains in the next 3-4 years. A-REITS and Financials have taken a real beating.

Lots of the banks and financials are paying dividends that beat cash accounts, capital growth is a bonus. With a high chance of easing monetary policy, there should be some upside potential to listed property trusts too. If I were in your situation I'd look into finding a financial stock you believe in or putting it all into an Index ETF like STW.


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## noirua (14 September 2008)

Come to think of it. It would be better to buy one of Joe Blows' books from the ASF Bookshop than to blow a fortune on these financial courses.


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## Tysonboss1 (14 September 2008)

noirua said:


> I suppose a grand isn't worth investing unless you go in for a bit of high risk investing.  It could be very boring if you don't.
> Find four bombed out mining stocks and there are loads about now. Do loads of your own research.
> Don't forget the uranium minnows.
> 
> The above always supposes you wont be a forced seller and don't mind being locked in for a while - good luck noi





Alot of the time the boring investment stratergies are the best long term winners


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## Greg71 (14 September 2008)

mazzatelli1000 said:


> Books are better IMHO




I agree to a point, depending on your experience and how disciplined you are. 

For me, I like DVD courses because if I see a pattern forming, I put the disc in for that pattern and refresh my mind for the trade. Also, it's because I sell them from my website. 

On the other hand, I've found that when I take a whipping, a book like Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom is what I need to sit down with and really study  properly. Just depends on your budget I guess.

Let your winners run, cut your losers short.


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## Greg71 (14 September 2008)

bluelabel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.
> 
> ...




On a stock like Harvey Norman (HVN), closing at 3.63 on Friday, you could buy a 3.75 call option with expiry on the 18th December, for roughly $270.


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## Glen48 (14 September 2008)

I have been trading for awhile now or will have been at 5:30pm to day..*.Trading in a Nutshell* seems like a good book. make sure you use your stop loss. the ASX web site allows you to have watch list  you can pick yours share no money down and see how you go.
ME I would try 500 buck on LNC????
All the best and if you get any good tips come back.


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## MrBurns (14 September 2008)

HI,

Do this - 

Open a Watchlist at the ASX site and choose shares that you like.

https://www.asx.com.au/asx/myasx/premiumService.do?serviceCode=watch

Watch this over the next few weeks and see how you went, see how much you would have made or lost.

I've had several watchlists for almost 3 years now, and boy am I glad I didn't put any real money in, I subscribed to several of the bigger newsletters on shares and every time they advised to buy something I started a watchlist and watched as their advice would have made me much poorer.

Try before you buy, that's my opinion.


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## mazzatelli1000 (14 September 2008)

Greg71 said:


> On a stock like Harvey Norman (HVN), closing at 3.63 on Friday, you could buy a 3.75 call option with expiry on the 18th December, for roughly $270.




bluelabel needs to learn more about options before doing something like that.

He/she will have to deal with negative theta and with HVN Dec Calls at $3.75 trading at 44%, make volatility projections whether that will increase or stay where it is etc etc

No definitely follow the advice here, keep your money for the holiday and learn for now.


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## cordelia (14 September 2008)

$1000 is a very small amount to trade with as you have probably already gathered......

Unless you educate yourself to a very basic level before investing that money I am sorry to say you will more than certainly lose it.....

Here are some points that I would have liked to have known before I started:

1. Go to the trading/investing resources thread and learn as much as you can. You don't need to spend huge amounts of money on courses, books, dvd's etc...That's all BS.. There are plenty of good sites that will give you a start...www.incrediblecharts.com...for one....and you will learn heaps here...however......
2. Whilst there are some very helpful people on this forum  bear in mind there  are others who are out to get your money.....Only buy a stock on a tip from someone after you have researched the company and more importantly...you can see every members post history by clicking on their name. It pays to look at certain members track records.....be very suspicious at all times. On the positive side work out who the smart people are and follow their lead.....Look for those who offer worth while advice without being smart mouths..
3.Don't trade until you no longer have to ask  another person how to go about it.....
4. Be prepared to lose money because you will......

good luck


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## cordelia (15 September 2008)

oh and one more thing...remember the story about the hare and the tortoise?   In case you are unfamillar with it here is a link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare - 32k 

Well, focus on being a tortoise......calculating, methodical and triumphant....

You may only have $1000 but if you are clever you can succeed.....


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## vida (15 September 2008)

I suggest buying a $1k worth of Woolworths shares and sit on it, then add to the holding whenever you have funds able to buy another parcel of shares... and just keep it and see the capital growth over the next few years + divs


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## romeo (15 September 2008)

i'm was/in a similar boat to you. I put a lot of the money i had into shares not long ago and got burnt, which was more than 1k but not that much more. But its ok, i put it to education. At least i learnt my lesson young. To my credit I thought my horizon was a lot longer than it actually was but i got an internship in Canada for a year and went on a holiday beforehand and I needed the money. So I guess keep saving, bank west is like 8.1% or something. I can't talk about courses or dvd courses but a good book i think is Stan Weinstein - Secrets For Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets. He presents things in a simple and concise manner.


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## Greg71 (15 September 2008)

romeo said:


> i'm was/in a similar boat to you. I put a lot of the money i had into shares not long ago and got burnt, which was more than 1k but not that much more. But its ok, i put it to education. At least i learnt my lesson young. To my credit I thought my horizon was a lot longer than it actually was but i got an internship in Canada for a year and went on a holiday beforehand and I needed the money. So I guess keep saving, bank west is like 8.1% or something. I can't talk about courses or dvd courses but a good book i think is Stan Weinstein - Secrets For Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets. He presents things in a simple and concise manner.




Absolutely, that is an excellent book. I just wish there was an updated version with newer charts. Maybe Louise Bedford could re-write it for him.


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## Greg71 (15 September 2008)

mazzatelli1000 said:


> bluelabel needs to learn more about options before doing something like that.
> 
> He/she will have to deal with negative theta and with HVN Dec Calls at $3.75 trading at 44%, make volatility projections whether that will increase or stay where it is etc etc
> 
> No definitely follow the advice here, keep your money for the holiday and learn for now.




I'm not suggesting he/she do it, just showing what is in that price bracket. Jeez, you could straddle that for around $500...I know, I know, gamma, theta, delta etc.

If he/ she is serious, education would have to be the logical choice, rather than gamble it on something they don't understand.


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## Timmy (15 September 2008)

If "Newbie with a grand" wants to go down the education track with his or her capital then the first logical place to start is right here at ASF.  There are any number of threads which will provide a very solid grounding; similarly there are many posters providing outstanding information all at NO cost.

Once Newbie has studied these threads then he or she will be in a much better position to decide on which books to buy or not to buy.


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## ROE (15 September 2008)

bluelabel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.
> 
> ...




1K is not a lot of money, you better off putting in a saving account
consider shares when you have 5K or more.

with 1K  you pay a nice chunk of your capital in fee so it's not really worth it

with the current market 1K put into a online saving account earn you 7.5%
1K put into the market you could go to $900 - $800 by this time next year


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## happytrader (17 September 2008)

bluelabel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new to this and want to get into share trading as it really interests me and has done for a number of years, i dont have much money but want to at least get a start, i just dont know where to start.  Any tips appreciated.
> 
> ...




Hi Bluelabel

You could buy shares with option derivative attached to them for example Lgl or Ozl etc. One thousand shares equals one option. That way you can sell call options over them when you are familiar with this strategy and the technical aspects of that particular share. Some call it renting out shares.

Cheers
Happytrader


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## Verbose Pelican (17 September 2008)

Please excuse my ignorance, but why would no one have suggested CFDs?  It is acknowledged that 1K is not a great deal of $, but with the leverage ability with CFDs, using appropriate protective stops, it would seem to be a realistic option.  Obviously, education/knowledge/practice is important, but a conservative strategy could assist to gradually increase capital.  Of course, i am a newbie too (currently learning the ropes), but interested in more experienced campaigners views on this.


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## brty (17 September 2008)

Verbose,

Your own post answers your own questions, just change the order.



> Please excuse my ignorance,




Yep got that bit.



> a conservative strategy could assist




Yep, thats education and savings in a crushing bear market.



> why would no one have suggested CFDs




because it is not a conservative strategy.



> 1K is not a great deal of $




Yep, right again, so why waste it??



> i am a newbie too




Explains why you have fallen for the advertising mantra, acknowledge it and there is hope for you.

brty


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## Trembling Hand (17 September 2008)

Verbose Pelican said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, but why would no one have suggested CFDs?  It is acknowledged that 1K is not a great deal of $, but with the leverage ability with CFDs, using appropriate protective stops, it would seem to be a realistic option.  Obviously, education/knowledge/practice is important, but a conservative strategy could assist to gradually increase capital.  Of course, i am a newbie too (currently learning the ropes), but interested in more experienced campaigners views on this.





Verbose Pelican can you explan to my why CFDs over Shares would make any diff??

You have capital. 
You risk a set percentage per trade.
You buy amounts of shares based on expected stop movement.

What diff does it matter if you use CFD or Shares. you should still buy the same amount??


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## Aussiest (18 September 2008)

Greg71 said:


> Absolutely, that is an excellent book. I just wish there was an updated version with newer charts. Maybe Louise Bedford could re-write it for him.





Maybe Louise Bedford could re-write all her books taking into consideration the current market conditions.


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## virago (18 September 2008)

A grand is not much, however if you are happy to risk, you could gain some experience, better than paper trading in my opinion, though you may loose it all pretty quick or you may not, it all depends on your trading plan.
its not how much money you make, but how well you trade.

Cheers,
Virago


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