# Starting out



## blueskytrader (19 February 2006)

Methodology

First steps
This is me thinking out loud – looking for comments, and to stimulate debate
--------------------------------

Seems to me the first step is to identify a “universe” or group of stocks that show promise of late - and that generally have good liquidity

Its not hard to do this really – just have a look at what other folks are recommending – 
Then go look at the charts – be aware of what and who the company is  - recent news etc – and good summaries of all this can be found easily at comsec. 

Three companies that seem to fit into this for example are 
AXA
CSR
CPA

ALL  - might be good to short – givens its prob’s of late ( half joking on this ) 

Anyone got any other suggestions ? 

The criteria – look promising ( whatever that means ) 
And have good liquidity in general, so you can always sell easily

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Then having identified a group of say 20 – 30 stocks to watch -
The next *big step* is a solid trading plan – not easy !

With signals for entry – and signals for exit – and a stop loss philosophy to implement 

re managing exits – “tech a” notes that this is where the money is made, not on the 50/ 50 end of entry points –

To quote tech a -
“ I'm currently working on composite charting techniques all based around better exits ( thats where the money is - the exit end of the trade - most look at the other end - the 50/50 argument )

this is from the  “beginner here” thread by sandra – and tech’s insight makes sense to me

as I said at the top – this is me thinking out loud in a sense, to clear my mind, invite comment, stimulate debate 

thanks

blueskytrader@hotmail.com


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## tech/a (19 February 2006)

blueskytrader said:
			
		

> Methodology
> 
> First steps
> This is me thinking out loud – looking for comments, and to stimulate debate
> ...




Bugga I said I wasnt going to do this any more.

Seriously get Nick Radges book Adaptive Analysis.
No matter what your veiw keep an eye on Duc and my discussion I will be adding some points my "Mentor" has made and helped shaped my views.
Hopefully discussions and books like Nicks will have a positive influence on you and other traders.

I can see its already got you thinking---EXCELLENT.


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## blueskytrader (19 February 2006)

thanks for the feedback Tech - much appreciate it  

i will look for Nicks book - and yes i have been following yours and ducatis contributions to the threads of late, with great interest - folks who are confident of their method - ive put wayneL in there too! 

seems to me, a thread where people discuss and compare their various enty signals, would be most helpful and interesting.

best


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## bullmarket (19 February 2006)

Hi and welcome blueskytrader 

You've probably read around the traps that a sound and *written trading plan * greatly increases the probability of success and being profitable in the long run.  I certainly agree with that view.

I certainly don't want to put you off but it's widely accepted that less than 10% of traders are profitable (at least to any significant extent) in the long run.  The main reasons for this are lack of discipline when trading, letting emotions (fear and greed) drive buy/sell decisions etc etc and hence the need for a trading plan.  A well thought out and extensive trading plan should help take most if not all of the emotion out of buy/sell decisions.

If you haven't already done so, maybe consider getting a copy of "Trading With A Plan" by Compton and Kendall.  There are many other reputable authors who have also written on this subject but the above is one I have actually read and it takes you through step by step in how to write a trading plan - starting from writing down your objectives and then going through the various aspects of how you plan to achieve those objectives and what criteria and parameters (what markets/sectors/stocks you will trade, buy/sell conditions/criteria that have to be met before buying/selling, position sizing, risk management etc etc) you will use in your trading.

I believe the above book is a very good read for both traders and investors to help them put together a writen plan.

Good luck and hope this helps 

bullmarket


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## Sir Burr (19 February 2006)

blueskytrader said:
			
		

> thanks for the feedback Tech - much appreciate it
> seems to me, a thread where people discuss and compare their various enty signals, would be most helpful and interesting.
> best




Good idea.

Although, there is sooooo much on entries that I like to see things that have no relation to entries at all such as ideas using the following in your trading:

1. advance-decline
2. index filters
3. equity curve
4. exits/entries based on 1. 2.& 3.
5. etc

SB


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## blueskytrader (19 February 2006)

thanks for your comments  bullmarket

ive been reading your posts on other threads with interest - and note that your goal is income, as mine will be when i leave work ( context of this is in my first thread - trading for income ) 

ive also noted that you consider yourself an investor - not a trader - does this mean you are a medium to long term player ?  

have you ever had an interest in and tried options ?  i guess not, as these are usually short to mid term vehicles


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## ducati916 (19 February 2006)

For those looking for some ideas regarding "trading plans" in a hurry, or just want something for comparative purposes, have a look at this template;

http://www.trade2win.com/knowledge/money-management/articles/general_articles/trading-plan-template/

jog on
d998


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## blueskytrader (19 February 2006)

*Re: entry signals survey*

thanks for the feedback sir burr !

I like the tiger movie !

yes - the way i saw it - a throrough discussion / sharing / comparison - of  the various entry points people favour, like, have found successful 

and then the follow up to that, would be - 
"managing  exits" - 
which is bound to inlcude the use of break even stops - trailing stops etc ..


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## blueskytrader (19 February 2006)

*Re: Ducati - trading plan link*

thanks for the link to the trading plan article Ducati !

i had a quick look - just what the doctor ordered - im sure it will prove most useful to myself and other learners - 
to read a summary of the priciples without having to read a whole book
--------------------------------------------------

i aslo just noted on closer reading, that the author Tim Wilcox admits that he is not yet a consistently successful trader - his honesty is admirable

and it appears to be very clearly written and easy to follow


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## bullmarket (19 February 2006)

no problem blueskytrader 



			
				blueskytrader said:
			
		

> thanks for your comments  bullmarket
> 
> ive been reading your posts on other threads with interest - and note that your goal is income, as mine will be when i leave work ( context of this is in my first thread - trading for income )
> 
> ...




Yes I am solely invested in LPT's and infrastructure/energy trusts atm, for the reasons I gave earlier, and so have a medium to long term view for my holdings.  But around every June I consult with the household's CFO (mrs bullmarket )  to agree on a broad strategy for at least the following 12 months.  I'm not expecting our strategy to change much if at all come June this year.

re options:  to be honest, I have never touched them.  I understand the overall concept of options and how they can be used as 'insurance' but I  have never had the inclination to get involved in trading them - especially at this stage of my life.  Basically I see then as too high risk and I have no need to take unnecessary risks nowadays.  But obviously they suit other peoples' objectives and risk profiles and so good luck to them, but they're not for me. 

cheers

bullmarket


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## larry123 (28 December 2006)

Hey, i'm a new investor and I am just starting out in shares.
Does anyone have any information or top picks for shares?

Thanks


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## theasxgorilla (28 December 2006)

I have good information...beware of tipsters


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## It's Snake Pliskin (29 December 2006)

larry123 said:
			
		

> Hey, i'm a new investor and I am just starting out in shares.
> Does anyone have any information or top picks for shares?
> 
> Thanks




What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about tips and recos and info?


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## Buy low. sell high (31 December 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about tips and recos and info?



What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about calling people who are just starting out "stupid"?


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## nizar (31 December 2006)

larry123 said:
			
		

> Hey, i'm a new investor and I am just starting out in shares.
> Does anyone have any information or top picks for shares?
> 
> Thanks




THis thread opening is inviting rampers to do their thing.
Halba has already lead the way.


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## nizar (31 December 2006)

theasxgorilla said:
			
		

> I have good information...beware of tipsters




Yep, i agree wholly.

Do your own research is the best advice i could give, even though im not licensed to give advice.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (31 December 2006)

Buy low said:
			
		

> What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about calling people who are just starting out "stupid"?




Buy low and sell high = regurgitation!

Use those thought processes.


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## Pager (31 December 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about tips and recos and info?




We all start somewhere snake, thought forums like this were to help and encourage any newbie, no matter how stupid you may think a question is   

maybe you should take notice of threads you have started? 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428


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## It's Snake Pliskin (31 December 2006)

Pager said:
			
		

> We all start somewhere snake, thought forums like this were to help and encourage any newbie, no matter how stupid you may think a question is
> 
> maybe you should take notice of threads you have started?
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428




Thank you for displaying some thought. Perhaps you would like to contribute a bit more now you have progressed. 

Ok point taken.

Do you have any tips for me?


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## Pager (31 December 2006)

Snake

The original post was very loose, maybe even intended as a wind up, seems to be a few around here intent on disruption at the moment, thought you of all people would have not started posting in a similar manner after your Wan#@rs and Dh#$ds thread.

I have not posted here a lot since becoming a member and mainly posted on the “Trading the Spi” thread that turned very childish, im more of a lurker know, my advise to any newbie would be to make use of the search feature of this and other similar forums on the areas that your interested in Options/futures/systems trading/fundamentals etc.

Cheers

Pager


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## barney (31 December 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about tips and recos and info?




Howdy Snake,  Just so this thread doesn't end up in a "Snake bashing comp" like what happened with the Tech/Yogi thread, can I offer my opinion re the thread so far ............  
Larry is only young, and a new poster. I remember when i first posted it was hard to know what to ask/say, or the best way to ask it cause you kind of feel uncomfortable and want to "fit in" so to speak.  My guess is that Larry was only trying to "break the ice" and probably did not even realise that asking for tips is not the way ASF operates.

Could I suggest you PM Larry and explain to him why his post was not suitable, and I'm sure he would appreciate that. I for one respect your "shoot from the hip" style, but I guess that some who don't understand how you operate may be a bit offended .............. All the best, Barney.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (31 December 2006)

Larry123 if you have any questions please feel free to ask me at any time. Your post was the sort of post that is repeated endlessly which is why I shot it.

Barney who I repsect has been the best new poster on this forum. He is upfront and gives reasons and information regarding his predicaments etc. This we can work off and help. 

For an introductory read get yourself a copy of Van Tharps Trade your way to Financial Freedom. It will give you a good understanding of what there is. From there there are those on this forum who will guide you. 

Happy New Year Barney.


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## Julia (31 December 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> Howdy Snake,  Just so this thread doesn't end up in a "Snake bashing comp" like what happened with the Tech/Yogi thread, can I offer my opinion re the thread so far ............
> Larry is only young, and a new poster. I remember when i first posted it was hard to know what to ask/say, or the best way to ask it cause you kind of feel uncomfortable and want to "fit in" so to speak.  My guess is that Larry was only trying to "break the ice" and probably did not even realise that asking for tips is not the way ASF operates.
> 
> Could I suggest you PM Larry and explain to him why his post was not suitable, and I'm sure he would appreciate that. I for one respect your "shoot from the hip" style, but I guess that some who don't understand how you operate may be a bit offended .............. All the best, Barney.




Hi Barney,

Ever thought of a career in the diplomatic service?  

What a great post - good for you.  Typical, too, of your conciliatory and peace-keeping style.  Perhaps we could clone you.

Julia


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## barney (31 December 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Larry123 if you have any questions please feel free to ask me at any time. Your post was the sort of post that is repeated endlessly which is why I shot it.
> 
> Barney who I repsect has been the best new poster on this forum. He is upfront and gives reasons and information regarding his predicaments etc. This we can work off and help.
> 
> ...




Good onya Snake, Happy new year to you as well ............. I hope Larry takes the time to PM you ........... All the best, Barney.


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## barney (31 December 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Hi Barney,
> 
> Ever thought of a career in the diplomatic service?
> 
> ...





Howdy Julia, Kind words (I'm not sure I deserve them) ....... PS Believe me ..... One of me is more than enough ........... just ask my wife    Happy New Year to you as well.


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## nizar (31 December 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> For an introductory read get yourself a copy of Van Tharps Trade your way to Financial Freedom.




I would recommend this book as well.
A good read.


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## Joe Blow (1 January 2007)

nizar said:
			
		

> THis thread opening is inviting rampers to do their thing.
> Halba has already lead the way.




Not any more.   

Any further ramps in this thread will be deleted.

Carry on!


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## Joe Blow (1 January 2007)

larry123 said:
			
		

> Hey, i'm a new investor and I am just starting out in shares.
> Does anyone have any information or top picks for shares?
> 
> Thanks




Larry,

Always do your own research and, as others have said, do not rely on tipsters. Ultimately they don't care if you make or lose money. Their ramps are motivated purely by self-interest.

Hope you enjoy the forums. There is a lot of valuable information to be found here.


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## SevenFX (4 January 2007)

larry123 said:
			
		

> Hey, i'm a new investor and I am just starting out in shares.
> Does anyone have any information or top picks for shares?
> 
> Thanks




Hey Larry, Hi & Welcome to ASF.

You've have to quickly learn 2 ignore some people on here, their posts will speak for themself.   



			
				It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> What a stupid post. Really, do you think it is all about tips and recos and info?






			
				It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Buy low and sell high = regurgitation!
> Use those thought processes.




Who named him "Snake" Anyway....was it members round here....????

Moderators this is typical Snake "slash n burn" to NEW MEMBERS of which starts flair Ups on ASF....Will this continue to happen from people like Snake & Yogi.

What is his Valuable Contribution Vs Slash N Burn ratio...???? (Rhetorical Question)

Silence Is Acceptance... So Snake & Yogi thinks.


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## marklar (4 January 2007)

larry123 said:
			
		

> Hey, i'm a new investor and I am just starting out in shares.
> Does anyone have any information or top picks for shares?



Larry,

I'd suggest to get involved, put some money in play and you'll learn very quickly!  

I'm still holding some of my initial purchases, even though they've gone mostly sideways as I've yet to recover brokerage on any increases.

Pay attention to the forums like this one and do your own research, particularly before risking large sums of money.  The most useful thing I have found is to keep an eye on the chatter about undervalued stocks, or those with a positive business model.

m.


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## Happy (4 January 2007)

Possibly this thread can be used by new posters, to see what to do and what not to do when starting out.

First of all, would be nice idea before entering any forum, to check what are the rules, do few searches to see if any of the questions were asked before. 

Maybe read few posts on trading, have a look at trading techniques and try to learn something.

Alternatively if tips needed badly, and somebody wants to be passive investor, best place to go is to talk to qualified adviser; qualified adviser can make you to lose money, but has the right to give advice.

Listed property trusts might be the place to start too.

But some reading is required no matter what.


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## Smurf1976 (4 January 2007)

Number one rule in my opinion is to START SMALL.

Keep most of your money in the bank or some other safe place whilst you are learning about shares. It's likely that you'll make some mistakes and lose some money before making a profit. Losing 5% won't matter, but lose 50% of your money by starting out too big and you've got a major problem.

Always remember that the market will still be there tomorrow so there's no hurry. Learn first, then invest the big $. Don't try doing that the other way around...


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## Snakey (4 January 2007)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> Number one rule in my opinion is to START SMALL.
> 
> Keep most of your money in the bank or some other safe place whilst you are learning about shares. It's likely that you'll make some mistakes and lose some money before making a profit. Losing 5% won't matter, but lose 50% of your money by starting out too big and you've got a major problem.
> 
> Always remember that the market will still be there tomorrow so there's no hurry. Learn first, then invest the big $. Don't try doing that the other way around...




very good advice smurf
i learnt this one this one the hard way but i lost more than 50% 
made it back now though plus more
if you have 100k then practice with 10k until it turns into 5K... by then you should know what you're doing.
leave 90k in the bank until you know what your doing. usually about 6 months
i am a self taught trader but i guess reading books would be a good idea


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## theasxgorilla (4 January 2007)

This is good advice.  Unless you're some trading virtuoso you'll blow a hole your account through ignorance eventually.  The sooner you are humbled and the smaller the damage, the better.

In his book Come Into My Trading Room, Alexander Elder sets the first year beginner target at, "to not lose more than 10% of your trading capital in your first year of trading".

I did better than that.  I made a killing my first year trading and gave half of it back again the next year, right in the middle of a run away bull market...go figure, bitter sweet lessons learned.


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