# To all those who do/have studied at Uni...



## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?

Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.

I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.

So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?


IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!


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## doctorj (14 March 2008)

Life doesn't change - as long as you intend to work for someone else, you need to be prepared to jump through the hoops they expect you to.

There's not much value in a lot of undergrad courses and even some professional qualifications.  Gotta play the game though.


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## theasxgorilla (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> So my questions are:
> Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?




Back when I studied IT, if you didn't want to be a programmer it was likely that you would find a large portion of what you were learning inapplicable after you graduated.



prawn_86 said:


> If so:
> What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?




I left uni with a year still to complete as at the time the IT industry was screaming out for people and I could earn silly money just for knowing where the Windows 'start' button was.  At some point I was put forward for a job which was a graduate position and the pr1ck who interviewed me mentioned about 10 times how it was a graduate position and I hadn't graduated yet (my boss at the time had recommended me based on merit, and 3/4 completion of a degree).

Fortunately I never got the job and it was the fate of a couple of other poor saps to put up with an underpaying payscale for their next two years getting shuffled around from team to team while I got 20% increases year on year those same two years, not to mention a lot more experience/responsibility...so you could say it was a blessing in disguise.

Still, I was SO fired up by this 'rejection' that I practically enrolled for my final year that week and went back to study full time and work full time.  I've still never actually used my degree since for getting a job or anything, but I never wanted a so-and-so like this guy to sit on the other side of an interview table and play holier-than-though with me again.

It's like you have said in other posts Prawn.  You can't figure out a way to beat them so you join them and beat them convincingly at their own game   Then let them hide behind their pieces of paper and titles while you forge your own path.

ASX.G


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## Robb (14 March 2008)

Hey Prawn,

Yeah, I agree with what you are posting... I study a B of Economics and a B of finance at ANU. However my problem is that everything I have learned seems to be irrelevant in the real world... Its interesting, can be complicated, challenging and I enjoy learning it, it just seems way to theoretical. A full semester on CAPM seems crazy!
What degree are you doing?
My grades aren't fantastic, about an average of 60 and have failed a course here and there, so i am just paranoid that i am going to graduate and not get a job. I graduate from Becon this year, and Bfinance next year, and currently have a good job in IT in the public service, but its not want I want to be doing. Will be applying for internships in banking soon, but just so nervous about it all


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## Prospector (14 March 2008)

Uni is just the beginning not the end point.  A degree shows employers that you have intelligence in your chosen field, and can complete something over a period of time.  The real learning comes when you apply the Uni degree in the workplace.


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## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

Robb,

I study a double in Finance and Marketing at UniSA.

I have just under a distinction average, but really it should be higher. I just put very little effort in.

Its just frustrating when things are so simple. Are all unis like this? IE - what sort of stuff do Ivy Leage schools teach?

Hell, last year we spent one whole tutorial covering BODMAS. If you didnt learn that in yr 8 you shouldnt be at uni.


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## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

Prospector said:


> Uni is just the beginning not the end point.  A degree shows employers that you have intelligence in your chosen field.




P,

that is kind of my point. The stuff they are teaching has very little relevance. I have so much knowledge learnt outside of uni, and yet it is my grades that will determine if i get an interview or not.

Im confident that if i get an interview i would be able to enhance on my other skills, but grades are what get you in the door with graduate roles, even if the subjects are crap.


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## MRC & Co (14 March 2008)

I found the same when at Uni.

I already learnt most of it and hence my results suffered as I was a bit cocky and didnt study (at all for some units).  I ended up with the same as you, a Distinction average.  Funnily enough, the units I topped with high HDs were the ones I knew the least about and as such, actually took time to listen and learn.

Definately more value in the peice of paper than what you learn though.

But as said above, gotta play the game!

There were a few units I found interesting and things I wouldnt have learnt otherwise.

International Economics was complex and enjoyable.  I did another called Organisational Performance I think, which had nothing to do with the name and was simply about thinking outside the box.  At first I questioned it because we werent learning anything you could directly apply, however, the end result definately helped my lateral thinking.

So I guess play the game and you will be sure to learn some useful things.  There will always be subject areas that even the most academic (not that I classify myself as an academic) of us will have no clue about!  

Uni life is a great time though!  Enjoy that aspect of it!  Was the best time of my life!


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## explod (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> P,
> 
> that is kind of my point. The stuff they are teaching has very little relevance. I have so much knowledge learnt outside of uni, and yet it is my grades that will determine if i get an interview or not.
> 
> Im confident that if i get an interview i would be able to enhance on my other skills, but grades are what get you in the door with graduate roles, even if the subjects are crap.




Just put up with it, do your best and make sure in third year (and from what you assert you should) that you get high distinctions, particularly for your core.     At that stage, not only your industry but the faculty will open doors that you never dreamed.    I repeat, again if you are as good as you say you are, you will be able to get into post grad research that is determined by your own criteria.  Just htink about that for a moment.

Keep up the good work and you may run the pack one day.


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## lazyfish (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Robb,
> 
> Its just frustrating when things are so simple. Are all unis like this? IE - what sort of stuff do Ivy Leage schools teach?




I did my undergrad (Computer Science) in Cornell (Ivy League). Stuff taught there were not very relevant, but they very hard, with lots and lots of big assignments. For some units it's common for students to sleep in labs struggling to finish assignments. I also did a bunch of economics units back then and they are more relevant and seems easier. But yeah, I learnt way more practical stuff while working. Regardless, I think grades are still important, they can give you significant advantage (or disadvantage). You said the stuff you are learning is easy, why not put in a bit of effort and get good grades ?


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## dutchie (14 March 2008)

G'day prawn 

The motivation to do things that bore you at uni is to attack! Instead of feeling negative about it turn it around and study harder on that material and set your sights on getting 100% in every exam/assignment you do. If you study the subject matter and feel you know it backwards and still have time up your sleeve then add some extracurricular material that your interested in.

The effort you put in now will be rewarded further in time where a lot more doors will be available to you.

Thats the system!!

Cheers

Dutchie


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## KIWIKARLOS (14 March 2008)

pfffft how hard is a finance degree, there's what 3-4 equations : you know how to do a NPV and really its just basic math with some behaviouable science and economic history attached. Nah im just joshin but in all seriousness i think if you like what you do you'll be good at it.

There are some degree's which are harder than other eg. Chemistry , pyshics and mathematics. I find trying to learn things which you can't relate to real world things is difficult.


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## tigerboi (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?
> 
> Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.
> 
> ...






Who went to university out of this lot,lindsay fox,dick smith,john singleton,gerry harvey,crazy john,kerry packer,rupert murdoch????

Tell me this is your lecturer as smart as this guy?If he is then its worth going on!!!


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## explod (14 March 2008)

tigerboi said:


> Who went to university out of this lot,lindsay fox,dick smith,john singleton,gerry harvey,crazy john,kerry packer,rupert murdoch????
> 
> Tell me this is your lecturer as smart as this guy?If he is then its worth going on!!!




Yeh they made a lot of money and certainly employed and helped a lot of people but except for a couple of them they are boring dunderheads; but because of such people being in command so to speak most of the world is a failure.

The turnaround of Ireland since they instituted free tertiary education to all has been nothing short of fantastic and that includes economic as well.

America in the last thirty odd years has let public education slide and that has been identified as the reason for the dumbing down and must have over all else to their current demise.


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## the barry (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Robb,
> 
> I study a double in Finance and Marketing at UniSA.
> 
> ...




Prawn, if it is all so easy, then why aren't you getting higher grades? If you know you need good grades to get a foot in the door, then why aren't you getting those grades? For someone who considers themselves so far in front of the pack, your ability to put two and two together seems quite behind the pack.


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## refined silver (14 March 2008)

> I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.




Yes. So you must put some effort in.



> So my questions are:
> Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?




Probably everybody whose ever studied has flet like this at some point. A lot can be useful later on, even if only for building blocks for more useful stuff or background knowledge that helps in better understanding some things.



> If so:
> What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?



Dunno!!!



> IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!




Sad to say but if the lecturer thinks its crap you won't get anything out of it. The best teachers are those who understand how their material relates to important stuff in the real world and are passionate about it. There's a few good teachers out there, for many mediocre ones where you learn nothing.

I did a B Econ at Qld Uni, 20yrs ago. Much was useless, a bit was very good, some stuff I learnt had to be unlearnt later on, when I realised it was only someone's theory and was totally flawed. I then taught Econ for a few years and got re-interested in it.

Most undergrad stuff is too theoretical. Its all the background stuff. Postgrad stuff tends to be much more relevant, practical, and useful. However usually need an undergrad degree to later do postgrad stuff! 

Also true as someone else mentioned, that some of the best in many fields, never learnt at uni, but this is probably only for the few.


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## barney (14 March 2008)

explod said:


> Yeh they made a lot of money and certainly employed and helped a lot of people but except for a couple of them they are boring dunderheads; but because of such people being in command so to speak most of the world is a failure.
> 
> The turnaround of Ireland since they instituted free tertiary education to all has been nothing short of fantastic and that includes economic as well.
> 
> America in the last thirty odd years has let public education slide and that has been identified as the reason for the dumbing down and must have over all else to their current demise.




Hi Explod,   I wouldn't normally bite, but what the hell .... its friday night! 

It doesn't concern me to any great degree (excuse the pun, and good luck with it Prawn) but to say that most of the people mentioned above are boring dunderheads is a little presumptuous unless you know them personally ……….. Also , to insinuate that employing and helping people is of less importance than being boring seems a little harsh at best …………. I don’t see too many of these people ruining the world as you state ….. to the contrary in fact ………….. 
I do understand your point re education, but think you may have taken one step too far in condemning the “not so educated”  …………….  If everybody was University educated, who would dig the holes and clean out the “gully traps of the world” etc etc.  ………  (maybe those who only achieve credits instead of high distinctions  lol !!)  
All the best, Barney.


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## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

the barry said:


> Prawn, if it is all so easy, then why aren't you getting higher grades? If you know you need good grades to get a foot in the door, then why aren't you getting those grades? For someone who considers themselves so far in front of the pack, your ability to put two and two together seems quite behind the pack.




It is the lack of motivation, which is what is being discussed in this thread. My grades are hugely above average, in fact, in my classes i do not know anyone with higher grades, however im sure there are, i just havnt talked to them yet. (200+ people per subject)

It is not that i find it hard, it is the fact that the majority of it is theoretical, and has very little application.

As with MRC, i seem to better in subjects that challenge me, or that i have not learnt before.

If it is a challenge then i am motivated, if not i struggle.


Refined Silver,
I think the lecturer was good to be frank with me. It was after class and in a discussion between just the 2 of us. IMO it shows that he can recognise beyond the syllabus which he needs to teach. I think it is as much the syllabus' fault as the lecturer, and he cannot change that on his own.

i also agree that postgrad is interesting, and will most probably do an honours year, if i do not get a decent job straight out 


Tigerboi,
There are succesfull people without qualifications i agree. But look at their generation. I think you will find that a majority of the 'high flyers' of our generation will all have degrees. Plus i could run off a huge list of people who are in their league with degrees.

These men recognised and exploited opportunity, without a doubt, but i bet they encourage their children to go to uni.


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## chops_a_must (14 March 2008)

dutchie said:


> G'day prawn
> 
> The motivation to do things that bore you at uni is to attack! Instead of feeling negative about it turn it around and study harder on that material and set your sights on getting 100% in every exam/assignment you do. If you study the subject matter and feel you know it backwards and still have time up your sleeve then add some extracurricular material that your interested in.
> 
> ...




Pretty much. If you enjoy it, you'll do well, if not, it will suck, and your marks will slip. But don't enjoy it so much that you become a perpetual student like me. Lol!

Having said that, when I had to do an econs unit, as a mandatory unit, I found it really difficult. Not because it was hard, but because it was just a load of BS and I got bored. The only way I got through it was to continually trash what the lecturer was on about. It was the only way I could learn what they were on about, and got good marks for it. Perhaps it is something you can do?



the barry said:


> Prawn, if it is all so easy, then why aren't you getting higher grades? If you know you need good grades to get a foot in the door, then why aren't you getting those grades? For someone who considers themselves so far in front of the pack, your ability to put two and two together seems quite behind the pack.




I'd listen to this^

Does your Uni have an accelerated student programme? I have the option to do an MBA before I graduate if I want. It's open for students in the top certain percent. There's that number again! It could give you something to aim for if your uni had something similar.

Another option is to do ISC's, independent study contracts, where you find out something you want to learn about, and do an assignment/s on that. Counts for the same amount of points as an ordinary unit, but you can do it over holidays as well. But more importantly it allows you to only study things you want to learn.

Hope this helps...


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## barney (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> It is the lack of motivation, which is what is being discussed in this thread. My grades are hugely above average, in fact, in my classes i do not know anyone with higher grades, however im sure there are, i just havnt talked to them yet. (200+ people per subject)
> If it is a challenge then i am motivated, if not i struggle.
> 
> There are succesfull people without qualifications i agree. But look at their generation. I think you will find that a majority of the 'high flyers' of our generation will all have degrees. Plus i could run off a huge list of people who are in their league with degrees.
> ...




Hi Prawn, I commend your obvious academic abilities .......... I am obviously a lot older than you (and I don't have a Uni degree), but my humble advice to you is ......... Study something that interests you, or something you can be passionate about, otherwise you could end up on the treadmill of "yuppyville" (doing a job to make a crapload of money, but still not being satisfied) ..... I don't know what year you are in at Uni, but life is a short journey ........ If you have the ability to steer that journey (via superior academic capabilities), then don't settle for something which limits your potential ............ If you are smart ....... don't just settle for a high paying "career" ......... Make a difference in the world and do something "special"  ............Chances are, if you are both smart and passionate about your work, you have the opportunity to "help" society at the same time as make a "crapload" of money    ........... Win win  for all !!   ....Cheers M8,and good luck with it.


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## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

Chops,

I will look into what you said. I have kinda taken it into my own hands, and am now studying a Diploma full time concurrently, external to uni.

Barney,

Thanks also. Dont get me wrong, I am heaps passionate about finance. Anything to do with it really, i love finding out and learning about it all, it just fascinates me. I just get bored with the 'basics' that they seem to teach at uni. But as others have said, I do need the piece of paper

With regards to a job, i think i would be happy with a "career" providing i enjoy what it was i was doing (or at last the majority). My old man always said that being happy is important, and i couldnt agree more, but at this stage in life i dont have any massive desire to work for myself. Not yet anyway.


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## hangseng (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?
> 
> Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.
> 
> ...




Prawn et al, I highly recommend you read a book by Harvey McKay "Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive" 

One aspect of the book really stuck with me (I read this in the 80's), if you pay for education you will not only complete it, you will excel at it. He also went on to cite several notary successful people with little or no education and there are many more. 

I am now 51 and on my 4th career move, each one better/different than/to the previous and more rewarding. I have a trade, 2 CertIV's and a Post Grad all of which have enhanced my prospects and knowledge.

Take the journey, the more you challenge yourself the more you will realise how little you know and how much you can actually achieve.


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## Rainmaker2000 (14 March 2008)

Prawn, I think I relate a little from my too many years at uni.........I also think you have already answered the question....

The fact is I could not motivate myself to do the extra lot of work required for more distinction grades as many of us want to get into real life situations and problems whilst we know we have to trudge through what can often be academic drivel....

I think you already know the key too......focus on your extra stuff....your passions, your interests......expand your base of competencies.....do a bit of volunteer work

The extra grades you may get from more work is just going to alienate all but the most prissy employers......and you get to start making yourself a unique commodity right now, outside the confines of your courses and qualifications....hope that makes some sense.


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## jtb (14 March 2008)

KIWIKARLOS said:


> if you like what you do you'll be good at it.
> 
> There are some degree's which are harder than other eg. Chemistry , pyshics and mathematics. I find trying to learn things which you can't relate to real world things is difficult.




I agree with this Prawn.

Also when its a piece of paper and not a packet of knowledge, wheres the value...................

You make the point earlier that you are obtaining much more knowledge out in the world. If so, see your degree for what it is-

A Blue Card,  a union ticket, trade ticket etc

Whatever's required to get you on site

As Kiwi says, pick up a chem', physics, geology,engineering etc - unit or two and learn about something real.
Your into resource stocks why not look at metallurgy or something as a minor? 

I must agree that the content of undergrad' courses surprised me as a mature age student and I rapidly understood why we (us old dudes) are so constantly disappointed with the quality of graduates when they join us in the workforce.  

I'm only studying (BSc) for my own interest and find I only learn (something new) when a problem posed makes me look elsewhere for the answer

At 35, I'd recommend finishing your degree and doing something else altogether, like head out to Olymipic Dam for 12months as a fieldie, T/A, nipper or similiar.
Then decide your next step.
I bet you learn all sorts of stuff (both internal and externally) you never thought you'd need

Cheers
J


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## tigerboi (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?
> 
> Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.
> 
> ...




While on the subject of the university educated types you should never forget this rule from 2nd grade: i before e old mate!that peice(sic)of paper will??stand you out from the pack as you say,also going through your first page of posts i see tenament(sic)no a's in tenement...your lucky kennas is not on the grammatical-spelling war path !but hey what would i know i am just a truck driver...any mistakes in that lot??,cop a tip dont get yourself a big head thinking your ahead of the pack,as for lindsay fox(truck driver made good)linfox a private company is worth around $980m.uni degree dont mean a thing if your head cannot fit through the door.....tb


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## barney (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Chops,
> 
> I will look into what you said. I have kinda taken it into my own hands, and am now studying a Diploma full time concurrently, external to uni.
> 
> ...




Yeah, your old man is right .......  (Funny how age gives you a different perspective on life)  .... If you can be happy AND make a good living etc.    that is nirvana (musical pun for the non-musical....... Kurt Cobain was mega rich, but I suspect he was never happy ...........  If I was filthy rich, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't terminate myself!)  ...........  

Glad you are passionate about your subjects, even if they are boring at times ... I actually have a saying for my kidz ............. "Boredom is a luxury" (older/middle aged buggas like me will appreciate that I'm sure )  .......... If you are bored with something because it is "easy", then that gives you time to concentrate on something else which interests you ...............  Be happy if Uni is boring, cause most are probably struggling ......... whereas you have "spare time"  ... Cheers.


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## Julia (14 March 2008)

Prawn, as someone who didn't go to uni until I was in my 30's (when I left school my father said "I'm not wasting money on you going to university when you will only get married and have babies!), I'd urge you to review your laissez faire approach and make the most of your time of life, whilst your intelligence is at its peak and your opportunities virtually limitless.

You have the latter part of your life to regret all that you didn't do when you were in the best position to do it.  Take on extra.  Do what you have to in order to feel challenged.   If it's all too easy for you, then you need to change what you are doing.  Not having to try is a bad habit to get into at your age.  Too easy for that to become the normal approach to whatever you take on.  Look for something which is difficult.  That will offer you a sense of achievement.

I don't mean to sound critical.  I'm just intensely aware of how easy it is to squander the best part of your life.

Good luck.  Up to you what choices you make.


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## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

tigerboi said:


> While on the subject of the university educated types you should never forget this rule from 2nd grade: i before e old mate!that peice(sic)of paper will??stand you out from the pack as you say,also going through your first page of posts i see tenament(sic)no a's in tenement...your lucky kennas is not on the grammatical-spelling war path !but hey what would i know i am just a truck driver...any mistakes in that lot??,cop a tip dont get yourself a big head thinking your ahead of the pack,as for lindsay fox(truck driver made good)linfox a private company is worth around $980m.uni degree dont mean a thing if your head cannot fit through the door.....tb




Can't help but think you having a go at me here TB 

If your going to have a crack at my spelling (which i admit can get poor when typed in haste or informally) how about you fix up your grammar and format so i cant at least read it easier 

PS - From what i have seen of Lindsay Fox, he is one of the most humble men going around


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## prawn_86 (14 March 2008)

Julia said:


> I'd urge you to review your laissez faire approach and make the most of your time of life, whilst your intelligence is at its peak and your opportunities virtually limitless.
> 
> I don't mean to sound critical.  I'm just intensely aware of how easy it is to squander the best part of your life.




Julia, 

Thanks for your opinion/advice.

Dont get me wrong, I do a lot of things, I would consider myself far from lazy, which I think is why my knowledge seems to be ahead of where I am at subject wise with uni.

I am on various comittes/boards, I work 2 days a week, I study 2 degrees full time and a Diploma full time externally, Im a mod here, and i am constantly researching shares/learning about different markets (ie forex) in my spare time.

Again this comes back to my original point, which a few other members seem to have commented on. Does increasing study/knowledge externally to uni make uni easier and therefore less enjoyable/challenging?


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## disarray (14 March 2008)

uni is about teaching processes based on tested (and usually somewhat old) theory. the point is to take the concepts, methods and lessons and apply it to relevant situations. general studies subjects (don't know if they are still compulsory) are an excellent way to learn about any number of topics. i studied history but loved the chance to learn do physics and astronomy.

unless you are of a superior intellect doing a seriously taxing course (in which case you would have excelled all through school anyway) then uni is pretty much a doddle. learn some concepts and processes, chase some women and expand your mind however you like. its good to be smart but keep things in perspective, lots of us can achieve with little effort but it doesn't mean you are above learning.

how you play the game depends on your goal. if you wanted to go the academic route then apply yourself now and do a thesis on something that interests you. otherwise get the piece of paper, go corporate and rise as high as your morals and pride let you. the bit of paper just shows you a door, its your personality that will get you through it.


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## cuttlefish (14 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:
			
		

> If so:
> What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?




I'm surprised noone has suggested smoking pot  ... but I guess that would be irresponsible lol.   

imo the best way to show that you're head of the pack is to be head of the pack - i.e. get the good grades - it will open more doors - the top employers do look at grades (as well as interpersonal and communication skills of course).

I've always been surprised at the poor literacy of NSW graduates these days and in hiring people for jobs it was a big issue - it seemed to be hard to hire people capable of putting a document together - so all tongue in cheek aside I'd recommend working on spelling and grammar alongside learning the vocation you're in.

And I'd also heed what Barney is saying - if you ever find yourself in a rut, or after graduating working in a company where you're just an android following the company program etc. then figure out what changes you need to make to have a satisfying and fullfilling career/life path.  But sounds like you're doing something your passionate about anyway which is good.


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## qmanthebarbarian (15 March 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Again this comes back to my original point, which a few other members seem to have commented on. Does increasing study/knowledge externally to uni make uni easier and therefore less enjoyable/challenging?




1. It depends on what you want out of uni:
I studied comp sci and I got a first (upper distinction) - I wasn't at all interest in do academic stuff - 15 straight years of education was enough for me.

Some mates went on to honours, phd's etc and now work at Microsoft...

Most above average people are bored with uni. Uni's are businesses and their business is to optimise the funds they can squeeze out of people before they hand them a piece of paper. However, its like anything - you can also put more in and you get bigger returns...e.g. Head of network protocols at Microsoft...The thing is that guy was brilliant - there was a book on Algorithms by Rivest, Shamir and Adleman - the RSA encryption people - the last 2 questions in each chapter were ridiculously hard!!!! He could do them - you need to know where you're at - you might be above average but not brilliant...If so why spend another 1, 2 years to get a fancier piece of paper?

I wanted cash and to travel the world working - so I worked full time while studying full time in my final year. I got paid more than any grad with a degree (even mining degrees  while I was still at uni. 

I was working in London at 22 and was designing an equities research platform. It was a buzz to be on a tele conf with the ING head of euro equities at that age but a lot of responsibility...

I live in Zurich now - I've got want I originally wanted but I feel I've missed out in some respects. The grass is always greener. Which brings me to my next point and your question 

2. Depends on what sort of study/knowledge you are talking about. 
If you do prac work that you will do be doing when you leave then you will find uni even more boring. If you aren't going to get paid good coin for learning this why do it? If you want to learn something - learn soft skills. When you focus on academics you miss out on soft skills and that is what is  important in business!!!!

Diversify your skills - you'll enjoy life more and ultimately thats what its all about. Employers will pay a premium for a guy with broader life experiences. I'd also say that most employers aren't Cambridge or Oxford phds (although I once interviewed for a company where 8 of 10 people were...) they are average (most often they are below average middle managers who are amibitionless and thats why they have been hired) so they are more inclined to employ you as a Upper Credit than a guy with a Distinction and narrow skills. Few people want to hire someone better than themselves.

So, to summarise - spend your extra time getting wasted and trying to pick up chicks


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## weird (15 March 2008)

I did a double degree in both engineering and marketing.  The Engineering degree included practical experience working in industry before being able to graduate, but the marketing degree was abit of a joke. I traveled and worked in SE Asian during my study, and the guy pushing me on a bike, could recite the 4 P's of marketing. I also remember an Advertising lecturer turning up to class so pissed he called the end of the class after 5 mins. I can see why some people may be frustrated with the experience. 

However I would like to know that meds, and engineers graduated before practicing. 

I remember a story about a Canadian engineer that designed a bridge, which collapsed and killed x number of people, and the Uni that taught the Engineer was involved in the hearing. The most memorable part of the story, is that I believe that rings are now presented to graduates, made from the melted bridge as a reminder of the responsibility they have.


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## theasxgorilla (15 March 2008)

cuttlefish said:


> I'm surprised noone has suggested smoking pot  ... but I guess that would be irresponsible lol.




Hahaha, thats how you make otherwise dull and repetative work seem overwhelming and challenging


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## Kauri (15 March 2008)

and what will you say to your first prospective employer.... aaahh... Uni was easy and a lot of it irrelevant so I just cruised through.. no sweat???
Bet that will impress a lot of bosses to be..
 Despite my work being dull, boring, tedious, and repetitive I have given it 100% always, and my boss has always given me 100% of my wages in return. I have now advanced to an undercover/out of the weather carpark... and yes I still have my first broom... handle replaced 5 times and the head 14 times but it's still ...
Cheers
...........Kauri


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## weird (15 March 2008)

Arr, in continuation to my previous post, one thing you learn at Uni, is that lecturers often, don't let facts get in the way of a good story.  

The above post prompted me to do some research (pretty sure wiki wasn't around at the time to check anyhow),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring


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## qmanthebarbarian (15 March 2008)

Kauri said:


> Despite my work being dull, boring, tedious, and repetitive I have given it 100% always, and my boss has always given me 100% of my wages in return. I have now advanced to an undercover/out of the weather carpark... and yes I still have my first broom... handle replaced 5 times and the head 14 times but it's still ...




Our man Kauri seems to be at a more advanced stage than just suggesting it :



cuttlefish said:


> I'm surprised noone has suggested smoking pot  ... but I guess that would be irresponsible lol.


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## imajica (15 March 2008)

I have a  Bachelor of Arts (double major in literature and politics), Diploma of Education,  First class honours in literature and a partially completed PhD in literature. I decided to defer my PhD to a later date as the money issue was killing me. Have now worked in the private academic coaching field for 5 years now and I make more money than a professor. I also really enjoy my work. Best of both worlds I guess. Many theoretical components you will never use in the real world and many aspects of a skilled job will develop as you gain experience. Uni does not teach you how to relate effectively with other people, how to manipulate your working environment so that you become the foundation for the successful running of the business - this is true bargaining power!


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

imajica said:


> ... more money than a professor.



hey ima, how much does a prof make anyway? ( just interested). 

It is probably typical of society's lack of acknowledgment of the contribution of the teaching/academic profession that even someone who reaches the pinnacle is still underpaid. (yes?)

Then again Sol Trujillo just gave himself a pay rise from $11mill to $20 mill whatever - despite the shareholders voting 'no'.


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## prawn_86 (15 March 2008)

Some more interesting responses coming out 



Kauri said:


> and what will you say to your first prospective employer.... aaahh... Uni was easy and a lot of it irrelevant so I just cruised through.. no sweat???
> Bet that will impress a lot of bosses to be..




My response will be something along the line of:
"I managed to maintain a distinction average, while achieving a heap of extra curricular activities, both academic and practical. Hence why I have some quality references"  and for investment banks I will add in "I have been runing my own portfolio for X years, so i have real money management, analysis etc etc experience"



imajica said:


> Uni does not teach you how to relate effectively with other people, how to manipulate your working environment so that you become the foundation for the successful running of the business - this is true bargaining power!




I agree here imajica. I took a gap yr between hs and uni and worked. It was definitely a year well spent due to the business knowledge I gained.


Keep those thoughts flowing


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## mrkmr (15 March 2008)

Hay mate, i m a recent graduate whose just finished working as an accountant.

Just get that piece of paper with some decent grades on it.  Once you do this you wont have a thing to worry about.  Do whatever you want after.  Work in finance, go travelling , work ****ty job with no responsibility and party everyday  etc.  Everyone goes through that should i drop out phase? 

Also try get a job with an international company because the name sells.  Even if you quit after 3mnths you can throw it on your resume.

You just want to find something you enjoy and can work in for the next 40 years. and hopefully pays well.


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## prawn_86 (15 March 2008)

Im definitely not thinking about dropping out. Im too ambitious, and i know i need the qualifications. 

I was just wondering if others have had similar experiences, which it looks as though they have had


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## scuffler (16 March 2008)

"but think you may have taken one step too far in condemning the “not so educated” ……………. If everybody was University educated, who would dig the holes and clean out the “gully traps of the world” etc etc."

100% agree with you.

People who go to UNI need to get into the REAL world!! imo.

And i know quite a few that have left UNI and cant keep down a job because they think they are higher than the job itself.
They should all start at the bottom like everyone else,imo,.

I hope this one doesnt get deleted also....there are 2 sides to a story!

:remybussi:remybussi


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## julius (16 March 2008)

scuff the point is these days so many people have degree's that many jobs you can't even get a look in without one


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## prawn_86 (16 March 2008)

Scuffler, I suggest you read the title of this thread.

This is a thread for people who have studied at uni to discuss it, with relations to the questions I asked.

This is not a debate about whether uni is appropriate or not, as that is based on individual situations. 

I find your generalisations offensive, and if I were as crude as you there is plenty of things i might say about those who dont go to uni...

Once again it is up to various circumstances, and dependent on each individual.

This thread is not designed to dicuss the merits for and against it.


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## Hyperion (16 March 2008)

Prawn,

I shared much the same sentiment as you, and decided to get a job to take up some of my spare time and hopefully see the relevance of my university studies to a real job.  Instead, I found what motivated me was the fact that graduates at the firm were being paid more than double what the undergraduates were, not due to any extra skill/experience/effort but merely by virtue of holding a degree.  Furthermore, I found the firm treated undergraduates in a completely different way, like we weren’t serious employees until we graduated.  So unfortunately, regardless of whether university studies are/aren’t relevant or of sufficient depth, the fact that employers treat it as such a necessity makes the former pretty much a moot point.

On a separate point, as others have pointed out, if you find a subject easy, try to get 100 in it – it’s a lot harder than it seems.

Also, although I find my commerce degree relatively easy, I find my law degree far more difficult and definitely challenging and as such I devote far more of my time towards it.  Would you consider taking up law?

Hyperion


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## prawn_86 (16 March 2008)

Hyperion said:


> On a separate point, as others have pointed out, if you find a subject easy, try to get 100 in it – it’s a lot harder than it seems.
> 
> Also, although I find my commerce degree relatively easy, I find my law degree far more difficult and definitely challenging and as such I devote far more of my time towards it.  Would you consider taking up law?




Hell no. 

In fact my contract law subject was the subject in which I got my lowest ever score! 


On a bit of a seperate note, I just contacted the head prof of my degree and found out that I am in the top 10 grades wise. He couldnt tell me where, but said not first. So now I have a target to aim for


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## nioka (16 March 2008)

I heard someone say the other day; " A university degree can make a person a man amoung children but a child amoung men "
 In my opinion a degree is a start in the learning process and not the end.


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## BradK (16 March 2008)

nioka said:


> I heard someone say the other day; " A university degree can make a person a man amoung children but a child amoung men "
> In my opinion a degree is a start in the learning process and not the end.




I agree. 

I graduated 10 years ago and learnt more 'on the job' than in my degree. However, I do agree that a degree opens doors for  you. I have been traveling around the world, and find that a degree is valued. 

brad


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## theasxgorilla (16 March 2008)

BradK said:


> I agree.
> 
> I graduated 10 years ago and learnt more 'on the job' than in my degree. However, I do agree that a degree opens doors for  you. *I have been traveling around the world, and find that a degree is valued. *




Yep.  I think I would have struggled to get a proper look-in over here without one.  Much more of an issue than in the southern hemisphere.


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