# Spitting on and burning the Australian Flag



## tech/a (27 January 2012)

I dont care what race you are.
Australian/aboriginal/or any other race.
Spit on our flag or burnit and you don't deserve to
Breathe the same air that covers this great nation.

Hiding under the canopy of race just doest cut it.
The sight of ignorant kids trying to impress 
Bogan adults who just want to milk the system
Makes me want to go down there and show them the 
Way off this continent ---- *permanently*.

I'm sure a few would join me.
Woozy do gooders---- *wake* up--- these people are bludgers ----- our countries Cancer,


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## Glen48 (27 January 2012)

You can do that just remember they have RIGHTS and entitled to all the free  legal aid at your expense, even then it would take years to export any one.


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## tech/a (27 January 2012)

Glen48 said:


> You can do that just remember they have RIGHTS




After that not in my eyes.



> and entitled to all the free  legal aid at your expense, even then it would take years to export any one.




Do that in many other countries and you'd never get out of jail.
In some you'd be dead!

I'm being ----- nice.


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## Solly (27 January 2012)

tech/a said:


> I dont care what race you are.
> Australian/aboriginal/or any other race.
> Spit on our flag or burnit and you don't deserve to
> Breathe the same air that covers this great nation.
> ...




Burning the flag is not a crime. 

Do you think there shoud be legislative change?


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## noco (27 January 2012)

Solly said:


> Burning the flag is not a crime.
> 
> Do you think there shoud be legislative change?




I believe it may be called TREASON. That is violation by subject of allegiance to sovereign or state; breach of faith, disloyalty.(Oxford dictionary 1987).

It may well be a crime?????


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## Solly (27 January 2012)

noco said:


> I believe it may be called TREASON. That is violation by subject of allegiance to sovereign or state; breach of faith, disloyalty.(Oxford dictionary 1987).
> 
> It may well be a crime?????




Not in Oz..


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## sptrawler (27 January 2012)

It's all very sad, the more money you throw at the problem, the more the life expectance is reduced.


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## tech/a (28 January 2012)

So what sort of reaction do you think there would be if we saw vision of the aboriginal or Chinese flags spat on or burnt.

Change legislation----how did it get to where it is now?
Was it once a crime back with the white Australia policy.


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## Uncle Festivus (28 January 2012)

While ever it's got a Union Jack in one corner it's not our flag anyway........


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## Bill M (28 January 2012)

tech/a said:


> So what sort of reaction do you think there would be if we saw vision of the aboriginal or Chinese flags spat on or burnt.
> 
> Change legislation----how did it get to where it is now?
> Was it once a crime back with the white Australia policy.




I think anyone with any decency and respect wouldn't burn or spit on any flag from whatever country. It is not illegal though, this story might bring back a few memories.

---
Burning the Australian flag was offensive but should not be made a criminal offence, Prime Minister John Howard said today.

But he said it should not be made a criminal offence because it was an expression of political opinion.

Link to story here: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/flag-burning-not-criminal-says-pm/2006/01/27/1138066948667.html

---


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## tech/a (28 January 2012)

Uncle Festivus said:


> While ever it's got a Union Jack in one corner it's not our flag anyway........




Who's is it then Britains?
Typical apathetic woosy in difference.

People want to get out more and see what
We have here in Australia.
Go speak to a few in detention centers and see
How their country treats them.

But come here burn our flag or spit on it
Your out!

As for Aborigials burning and spitting on it
They get whatever they want when they want it
Have no respect for anything and an insatiable
Penchant for sucking everything they can from
The gullible do gooders----we stand back and let
It continue ----- not even a whimper.


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## Gringotts Bank (28 January 2012)

Tech, as you know, in china you'd be tortured and buried alive by the "authorities" for burning the flag.

I don't think we want to be like the Chinese, all full of patriotic pride and self-importance.  It's ugly.

The other thing is, the majority of Aboriginies are not able to take advantage of opportunities in the western world because of low intellect and alcohol abuse.  These might be learned or genetic phenomena, or a combination.  They need a degree of support.


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## Sean K (28 January 2012)

I'm upset about flags being burnt. It's a very powerful image. While it's just a strip of cotton, it's what it represents that matters to me. 

Having said that, I still know it's just a piece of cotton and I do not value the opinion of the person burning the flag. They do not warrant my emotional effort. I mean really, they are just unemployed losers with very poor dress sense. Who cares. 



tech/a said:


> So what sort of reaction do you think there would be if we saw vision of the aboriginal .. flag .. burnt.



Yes, imagine that!


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## wayneL (28 January 2012)

What does the flag represent?


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## jackson226 (28 January 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> The other thing is, the majority of Aboriginies are not able to take advantage of opportunities in the western world because of low intellect and alcohol abuse.  These might be learned or genetic phenomena, or a combination.  They need a degree of support.




You are exactly one of those do gooders that looks the other way and confuses cause with effect...

If I got all my money handed to me and didn't have to work I'd sit around and sink piss all day and wouldn't bother getting an education either!


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## Sean K (28 January 2012)

wayneL said:


> What does the flag represent?



My country. My home. Me. 

Perhaps that's why some people are offended at their flag being burnt. It's a personal attack.

Maybe it just represents a rampant nationalistic belligerent jingo also.


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## Knobby22 (28 January 2012)

_What does the flag represent?_

The flag represents, and is, a symbol of the state.
It is something the state uses to call the populace "to arms" and help create loyalty to the state and in turn the political elite or ruling class. 

They say you fight and die for the flag as many of my great uncles and grandfathers did (7th generation Australian) they are hiding who you are really fighting for. The reason Great Britain is in the corner is because we were meant to fight for them in past history.

It is healthy that we don't have laws "protecting it". Australians are meant to have a disdain for authourity and I think it is sad that people want us to be like some other nations. The USA use their patriotism/nationalism as a way to enforce behaviour. China, Iran etc, use it to control the people more. Be careful of symbols of authoriatism.

It does represent the country as a whole and hopefully our aims just like the national anthem but I don't want to see it used by our elite to control us!

The Aborigines who burned the flag have done their cause *huge damage*. They have created an own goal and will get a lot less sympathy in future. They will lose out big time for their stupidity. That is punishment enough.


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## prawn_86 (28 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> _What does the flag represent?_
> 
> The flag represents, and is, a symbol of the state.
> It is something the state uses to call the populace "to arms" and help create loyalty to the state and in turn the political elite or ruling class.
> ...




I was thinking how to reply to this thread but you have said it better than i ever could. I'm only 5th generation Australian on one parents side however.


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## breaker (28 January 2012)

Solly said:


> Burning the flag is not a crime.
> 
> Do you think there shoud be legislative change?




YES


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## breaker (28 January 2012)

Good one knobby


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## Gringotts Bank (28 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> _What does the flag represent?_
> 
> The flag represents, and is, a symbol of the state.
> It is something the state uses to call the populace "to arms" and help create loyalty to the state and in turn the political elite or ruling class.




I agree.  How much reality is there in a symbol?  None!  When they send back pictures of earth from outer space, the continents are just big brown masses.  The word 'Britain', 'Australia', 'China' etc aren't plastered across them.  Those words are just imagination, and have no reality outside of the firing of neurons in your brain.  The big brown masses just sit there - and _that is_ real!  The same goes for border lines - the lines are just drawn in on maps.  Of course it goes without saying that if you trespass any deeply held imaginary belief, that will cause hurt and outrage.  I'm not saying that's wrong, just... you know...there's another way of looking at it.

ps jackson I don't do any good.  Re-think that label please.


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## Calliope (28 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> The Aborigines who burned the flag have done their cause *huge damage*. They have created an own goal and will get a lot less sympathy in future. They will lose out big time for their stupidity. That is punishment enough.




Well said. It would be interesting to see however what punishment would be meted out to a bunch of white hooligans if they burned this "sacred flag" in front of the "sacred aboriginal tent embassy."





I am sure the full wrath of the law and of all political parties would descend upon them.


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## Gringotts Bank (28 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Well said. It would be interesting to see however what punishment would be meted out to a bunch of white hooligans if they burned this "sacred flag" in front of the "sacred aboriginal tent embassy."
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Like a lot of cultural/gender/racial issues, it reflects a parent-child dyad.  The whites represent the parents, and the Aborigines represent the children.  The parent tolerates outbursts from the child, (as it should), even if the parent caused the problems to begin with.  But at some point the damaged child has to forgive its parents' misguided (and usually well-intentioned) behaviour and live autonomously.

In that sense it would be quite right to frown upon the 'parent' burning the 'child's' flag.  An adult-adult relationship is obviously the ideal.  Aborigines may be inferior in some ways to whites, but they have strengths and insights that many whites will never achieve.  It's simply a matter of Aborigines understanding they are not victims, not inferior, not children, despite what happened.


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## DB008 (28 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> It would be interesting to see however what punishment would be meted out to a bunch of white hooligans if they burned this "sacred flag" in front of the "sacred aboriginal tent embassy."
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Exactly what I was thinking. 
What would happen if someone burned a Aboriginal Flag on national TV.....???


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## ColB (28 January 2012)

DB008 said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.
> What would happen if someone burned a Aboriginal Flag on national TV.....???




I'm pretty sure you would face charges under the racial vilification laws that exist in most states.

"...Only an 'aggrieved person' may lodge a complaint. In the case of the racial hatred provisions, an aggrieved person is someone from the group targeted by the behaviour who is offended, insulted, humiliated or intimidated because of his or her race...."
[http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/cyberracism/vilification.html]

So, as Australians, are any of us offended by the actions of the indigenous?  I am, but like many indigenous I'm too lazy to do anything about it.


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## pixel (28 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I was thinking how to reply to this thread but you have said it better than i ever could.



 +1


breaker said:


> Good one knobby



 +2


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## tech/a (28 January 2012)

*I want an apology*


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## prawn_86 (28 January 2012)

Who really cares? And if you do why? As knobby said, they have done more damage to their 'cause' by doing this. 

Also as this is a possibly sensitive thread, please think twice about exactly what you are posting. If posts are outside the ASF T&C's they will be removed


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## Glen48 (28 January 2012)

Recall the uproar when some pastor wanted to burn the Koran it was almost the start of WW111, lucky the pres. stepped in and saved the day.
But may that different????

The flag is a standard or reference point of OZ.
Picture this what if Australia was still an undiscovered land what would it be like..????


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## tech/a (28 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Who really cares? And if you do why?




I do!
I'm offended.
These people expect us to support their cause.
Yet they treat us just as they don't wish to be treated.
Their point on me at least is mute!


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## ColB (28 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> *Who really cares? And if you do why?* As knobby said, they have done more damage to their 'cause' by doing this.
> 
> Also as this is a possibly *sensitive thread*, please think twice about exactly what you are posting. If posts are outside the ASF T&C's they will be removed




Prawn, I sense from your comments that this incident is of a low general interest from 'your' perspective.  If you don't really care if someone burns the Australian flag then fair enough but allow some of us who do find it offensive to express our views without the threat of having a post removed.

We, as taxpayers spend huge sums of money providing welfare to the indigenous, in fact, more than you or I as white Australians are entitled to. 

It appears the youngsters in the photos depicted on this thread don't have very good role models to look up to.


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## motorway (28 January 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Tech, as you know, in china you'd be tortured and buried alive by the "authorities" for burning the flag.
> 
> I don't think we want to be like the Chinese, all full of patriotic pride and self-importance.  It's ugly.
> 
> The other thing is, the majority of Aboriginies are not able to take advantage of opportunities in the western world because of low intellect and alcohol abuse.  These might be learned or genetic phenomena, or a combination.  They need a degree of support.




Should not underestimate the importance of poor health in reducing ability to "take advantage" . Genes are not destiny . Genes Switch on and off and express themselves Given among factors many environmental triggers. Which includes Culture ,Diet and Lifestyle.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...pidemic-among-blacks-says-new-book-2012-01-19

This is likely to be a huge factor imo

As to your other post



> Like a lot of cultural/gender/racial issues, it reflects a parent-child dyad.




I appreciate that insight !

Motorway


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## Wysiwyg (28 January 2012)

Does anyone know why these people took such action?


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## prawn_86 (28 January 2012)

tech/a said:


> I do!
> I'm offended.
> These people expect us to support their cause.
> Yet they treat us just as they don't wish to be treated.
> Their point on me at least is mute!




Their point was mute to me before they did this, perhaps that is why i dont care. We already spend way too much money on them imo as they have a lot of opportunities should they choose to take advantage of them.



ColB said:


> Prawn, I sense from your comments that this incident is of a low general interest from 'your' perspective.  If you don't really care if someone burns the Australian flag then fair enough but allow some of us who do find it offensive to express our views without the threat of having a post removed.




Col, members are entitled to express their opinions, but as per ASF T&C's any posts that are blatantly racist etc will be removed. So far everyhting on this thread seems fine to me, it was just a friendly caution to make sure this thread doesn't turn into just racial slanging


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## sptrawler (28 January 2012)

Wysiwyg said:


> Does anyone know why these people took such action?




Just behaving badly, because they know they can. They don't answer to anyone, there is no accountability, so therefore they just keep pushing the envelope.IMO


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## Julia (28 January 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Like a lot of cultural/gender/racial issues, it reflects a parent-child dyad.  The whites represent the parents, and the Aborigines represent the children.  The parent tolerates outbursts from the child, (as it should), even if the parent caused the problems to begin with.  But at some point the damaged child has to forgive its parents' misguided (and usually well-intentioned) behaviour and live autonomously.
> 
> In that sense it would be quite right to frown upon the 'parent' burning the 'child's' flag.  An adult-adult relationship is obviously the ideal.  Aborigines may be inferior in some ways to whites, but they have strengths and insights that many whites will never achieve.  It's simply a matter of Aborigines understanding they are not victims, not inferior, not children, despite what happened.



This sounds like the sort of psychobabble that was so popular in the 70's.

Such an explanation as an excuse for bad behaviour is imo insulting to those aboriginal elders like Noel Pearson, Bess Price et al who have been working so hard to change the *culture of entitlement mentality* fostered by some Australians who for some unfathomable reason seem to have an interest in seeing Aboriginal people remain victims.



ColB said:


> Prawn, I sense from your comments that this incident is of a low general interest from 'your' perspective.  If you don't really care if someone burns the Australian flag then fair enough but allow some of us who do find it offensive to express our views without the threat of having a post removed.
> 
> We, as taxpayers spend huge sums of money providing welfare to the indigenous, in fact, more than you or I as white Australians are entitled to.
> 
> It appears the youngsters in the photos depicted on this thread don't have very good role models to look up to.



+1.


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## Dougs Antiques (28 January 2012)

This act of treason shouldnt be just passed off as a mindless action of a few minors.
I AM SO ANGRY AND INSULTED ABOUT THE SPITTING AND BURNING OF OUR FLAG.
Lets just take a small part of our flag and examine what it really means.
"THE STAR OF FEDERATION" 
The Star of Federation is that small star which has 7 points those points represent our states (6) and  the seventh point represents our territories and any future states and or territories.( This was put on the flag in 1901 it was 6 pointed at that time and changed to the 7 point star in 1908 i think....and what does this symbolise? It symbolises AUSTRALIA BECOMING A FEDERATION)
This star in on our military badges,police badges and our defence force service medal (just to name a few).
This is an act that needs severe punushment , im sure that if i done the same to the aboriginal flag that i would be sitting in a jail cell right now waiting for the judge to sentence me on Monday morning.
Im with tech 100% on this one:
*I DEMAND AN APPOLOGY AT THE VERY LEAST*
*A VERY BIG AND GENUINE* *"IM SORRY"*


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## tech/a (28 January 2012)

Passion
Right with you Doug


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## Gringotts Bank (28 January 2012)

Julia said:


> This sounds like the sort of psychobabble that was so popular in the 70's.
> 
> Such an explanation as an excuse for bad behaviour is imo insulting to those aboriginal elders like Noel Pearson, Bess Price et al who have been working so hard to change the *culture of entitlement mentality* fostered by some Australians who for some unfathomable reason seem to have an interest in seeing Aboriginal people remain victims.




70's?  I must be old fashioned.

By the way everyone, the word is "moot".  Mute is the button on your TV.  You'll need it tonight if you're wathcing the women's tennis.


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## nulla nulla (28 January 2012)

1. In my opinion, Tony Abbots comment was innocuous and taken completely out of context by the Aboriginal Tent City Occupants; 
2. The union rep trying to stir the occupants up by misrepresenting what was going on at the Emergency Service medal presentaion was reprehensible and he should be charged with trying to incite afray;
3. The actions of the occupants was innapropriate, intimadatory to innocent bystanders and in my oppinion the agitators should be charged with afray.
4. As John Howard has already pointed out it is not an offence to burn the flag. 
5. Children spitting on the flag is imature and stupid, reflecting poorly on their parents and even worse on the people egging them on. 

I thought it odd that they conducted a spitiual burning of leaves to appease the spirits before commencing the burning of the flag. Maybe this was out of respect to the indiginous Australians that have fought and died under the flag in World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

Personally I think this thread is turning into a stupid tirade, bashing all Blackfella's on the basis of the acts of a handful. I respecfully request that it be closed.


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## wayneL (28 January 2012)

Ya can tell who took the red pill and who took the blue pill in this thread.


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## tech/a (28 January 2012)

wayneL said:


> Ya can tell who took the red pill and who took the blue pill in this thread.




You bet.


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## prawn_86 (28 January 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> Personally I think this thread is turning into a stupid tirade, bashing all Blackfella's on the basis of the acts of a handful. I respecfully request that it be closed.




Nulla,

I agree with pretty much all your sentiments you posted, but as ASF is a place for discussion we don't just close threads, even if they are pointless (unless they consistently break the ASF T&C's).

I agree with your concept of stereotyping of a minority though. I know people who drive round their farms with Nazi symbols on their cars, does that mean all 'white people' are the same as that?


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## Dougs Antiques (28 January 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> Personally I think this thread is turning into a stupid tirade, bashing all Blackfella's on the basis of the acts of a handful. I respecfully request that it be closed.




Nulla Nulla, I will let it be known publicly that I am definatly not racist, in fact I am married to a part Aboriginal woman who has never in her life accepted any goverment handouts because of her race.
The act of burning the Australian flag is an absolute tradgety and a discrace to the aboriginal community.
Can you imagine what would happen if I dishonered the aboriginal flag in such a manner in a public place, I would suspect that my house would be burnt down for a start.
I realise that its not illegal to burn a flag but in saying that if the shoe was on the other foot we would definatly have a riot on our hands.
Nulla Nulla i think that you are trying to play this down and brush it under the carpet, IMO that should not be the case and examples need to be made of these individuals just so that they *DONT THINK ITS OK TO OFFEND ME AND/OR MY FORFATHERS .*
*THIS IS ABSOLUTLY DISCRACEFULL*
*I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS AND IF YOU WISH TO CRITICISE ME FEEL HAPPY TO DO SO BUT I WILL DEFEND THE AUSTRALIAN FLAG UNTIL THE DAY THAT I DIE.*


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## sptrawler (28 January 2012)

Actually Doug, if you can get hold of that flag it could become a collectors item. You never know what is the catalyst that brings about change.
Everyone knows that aboriginals have made great steps forward, in having Australia at large accept their heritage and standing in our history.
However, to denegrate and demean where Australia is now, is undoing the great work that has been done over the last 40years. 
It just makes it all lose credibility, someone should just ask how much money do you want to stop whinging about compensation.
If then they say they don't want money they want land, give them S.A. LOL


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## Dougs Antiques (28 January 2012)

Or we could give them Tassie for obvious reasons


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## sptrawler (28 January 2012)

Dougs Antiques said:


> Or we could give them Tassie for obvious reasons




Jeez I would put money into that and I will double it if they put the detention centres there. 
Bob can then have some real issues to look after, rather than thinking up ideas to stuff up everyone elses lives.
That is the whole problem with blind belief and limited intelligence, Hitler had it, Bush had it, Bob's got it.


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## Julia (28 January 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> By the way everyone, the word is "moot".  Mute is the button on your TV.  You'll need it tonight if you're wathcing the women's tennis.



I'd appreciate your not including the correction re "mute/moot" in your response to my comments. I wasn't the one who made the mistake.
The meaning, however, in the original post containing the term was perfectly clear.

By the way, everyone, the word above is "watching"  rather than "wathcing".




Dougs Antiques said:


> Or we could give them Tassie for obvious reasons



Could giving Bob Brown to them also be part of the deal, do you think?
If so, I'd vote for it in a heartbeat.


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## pixel (29 January 2012)

Julia said:


> Could giving Bob Brown to them also be part of the deal, do you think?
> If so, I'd vote for it in a heartbeat.



+1 
 I'd also throw in Sarah Hanson-Young, complete with her little girl; she may be cute as a button, but ought to be kept away from Canberra - as far as possible. 
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/green...o-remove-toddler/story-e6freol3-1225737466887

btw, what little is left of my schooling in Latin: Isn't "Senator" derived from "senior", implying maturity, age, and a certain degree of wisdom?


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## tech/a (29 January 2012)

Julia
I pad Self correcting spell check has a lot to do with 
The spelling errors on my posts. Moot was " corrected " to mute.
I didn't read over the passage.
Ah -- technology


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## Julia (29 January 2012)

tech/a said:


> Julia
> I pad Self correcting spell check has a lot to do with
> The spelling errors on my posts. Moot was " corrected " to mute.
> I didn't read over the passage.
> Ah -- technology



 Tech, I wasn't in the least bothered by the typo.  Just preferred that GB didn't attribute it to me, given I do at times make a bit of an issue about spelling etc.


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## takestock (29 January 2012)

My elderly parents came from Italy in the the 1950's  infact my dad will celebrate 60 years(Feb) in Australia while my mother will have been here for 62 years.They have seen many changes in Australia and will always have a love for the Mother country however,when they saw the burning of the Australian flag they were disgusted and appalled that once again,they had to witness the destruction of the flag and they don't understand why the government has been powerless able to put a stop to this act of desecration.
I agree that the whole Aborigine community should not be judged by the actions of a few publicity seeking extremists however,when I see children being indoctrinated to the extreme views of these adults,it plainly shows that certain Aborigines wish to perpetuate this 'circle' of hate.
I am certain that many more Australians are now less sympathetic to the opinions and rantings of these Aborigines.All the good work that has been achieved thus far by  Aborigines can be somewhat diminished by the actions of a few.
What I believe needs to be done:
1) Get rid of the "tent embassy",flame throwers would be ideal. 
2) An immediate stop to legal funding so they will not resort to using the legal system   at a drop of a hat.
3) An 'official' apology by the Aborigines for flag burning.
4) Legislation to cancel the affects of the Mabo ruling.
5) An immediate stop to any advantageous payments they may receive because of their Aboriginality.
6) A statement by the Australian  Government telling other countries to mind their own  @&%$i*g business!.Countries that have a "beef" with us seem to always bring up the Aboriginal treatment.....whether they are treated fantasically or not it doesn't seem to matter....those countries will still make an issue of it.
7) An official thankyou for the way the present and previous governments have tried to help the aborigines. No offence to the Portuguese or Spanish peoples, but had anyone of those peoples "invaded" Australia they wouldn't be dealing with ANY aboriginal issue because the indigenous race would have been wiped out from every part of Australia.

If one keeps on poking and stirring a sleeping dog;that dog just might wake up and 
bite you on the ****.
The flag burning should be met with a devasting reply!


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## Dougs Antiques (29 January 2012)

takestock said:


> The flag burning should be met with a devasting reply




*+1*


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## bellenuit (29 January 2012)

What I don't understand about the security incident is why it should be left up to Gillard to refer it to the police. Surely, as the prime victim of this incident, Abbott has a right to demand that the police investigate what happened.


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## Knobby22 (29 January 2012)

A forced apology is not an apology.

I agree though that if they keep this up, they will lose the respect of the Australian people and get all the political action that goes with that. ...like tear down the "embassy".


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## Sean K (29 January 2012)

bellenuit said:


> What I don't understand about the security incident is why it should be left up to Gillard to refer it to the police.



The PMs security detail are the one to be questioned. Looked pretty sloppy really.


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## Julia (29 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> A forced apology is not an apology.
> 
> I agree though that if they keep this up, they will lose the respect of the Australian people and get all the political action that goes with that. ...like tear down the "embassy".



What apology are you referring to?    Rudd's?
Or an apology by the tent activists for their uncalled for and stupid behaviour?


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## Knobby22 (29 January 2012)

Julia said:


> What apology are you referring to?    Rudd's?
> Or an apology by the tent activists for their uncalled for and stupid behaviour?




The tent activists. If you demand an apology then it isn't one. 
If they were smart they would offer an apology.


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## pixel (30 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> The tent activists. If you demand an apology then it isn't one.
> If they were smart they would offer an apology.



 If they were smart, they wouldn't have kicked up a fuss in the first place.
If they were really smart, they would've realised someone was trying to stir them up, for whatever short-sighted motive. But the fact that they (as usual) blame others and lament they've been "set up" simply proves that they're not smart at all. Rather the opposite.


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## sptrawler (30 January 2012)

pixel said:


> If they were smart, they wouldn't have kicked up a fuss in the first place.
> If they were really smart, they would've realised someone was trying to stir them up, for whatever short-sighted motive. But the fact that they (as usual) blame others and lament they've been "set up" simply proves that they're not smart at all. Rather the opposite.




Yes pixel, it all beggs the question"what do they do for their day job" that they can find the time to hold down a job, pay taxes and find the time to go down and demonstrate.
Obviously they take annual leave to spend time down at the protest, otherwise they would be at work helping the government to pay for aboriginal welfare.


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## Glen48 (30 January 2012)

What creditably does the Aboriginal flag have: 
Is it some how registered, copyrighted, protected, recognized by federal government departments.
If they are Australian why do they have a different flag to us, would they die/fight  for their flag.
 Who designed it and why can't he/they design some  thing better for Australia.


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## Starcraftmazter (30 January 2012)

Burning the flag treason? Please, I would much rather hang most of the politicians for treason for bending over to countries like USA and letting their lobby groups dictate our legislation.


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## Macquack (31 January 2012)

takestock said:


> What I believe needs to be done:
> 4) Legislation to cancel the affects of the *Mabo ruling*.



Let me see, if someone took your land, you would just lie down and concede to the oppressor.


takestock said:


> 7) An *official thankyou *for the way the present and previous governments have tried to help the aborigines. No offence to the Portuguese or Spanish peoples, but had anyone of those peoples "invaded" Australia they wouldn't be dealing with ANY aboriginal issue because *the indigenous race would have been wiped out from every part of Australia*.



I take offence to this redneck comment. 

Look up "Aboriginal Tasmanians" to see how thankfull the indigenous people should be to the British white man invasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians


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## sptrawler (31 January 2012)

Macquack said:


> Let me see, if someone took your land, you would just lie down and concede to the oppressor.




Britain was invaded four times, last time 1066 by the french, they just moved on. The invaders and inhabitants intergrated.
Australia would have been invaded in WW2, if British colonials and the indigenous Australians had not fought alongside  each other under the Australian flag.
I think every country in the world, except Nepal,  has been conquered, ruled or occupied by a foriegn power in their history.


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## Bill M (31 January 2012)

Just had this come to my email.


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## breaker (31 January 2012)

Bill M said:


> Just had this come to my email.




Sweet Bill I want one


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## awg (1 February 2012)

Only just recently in this thread has it been alluded to, but in my personal experience with Aboriginal people, quite a significant proportion, in my estimation, do not respect the Australian flag, viewing it as a symbol of invasion, and especially around Australia Day, which many Koori refer to as Invasion Day.

I think they were inflamed at this time by rhetoric, and passion, and this is why they burnt the flag.

I think it hurts the cause for them to be doing that, and if it was me, most certainly could have been prosecuted for various summary acts, ie vandalism, public disorder etc, and given a bill for cleaning up the damage and scorching. The cops probably would have treated me roughly while throwing me in the paddywagon.

I watch my mouth when I hear talk of Invasion day, but I cant help thinking, lucky I aint a re-enactor then.


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## sptrawler (1 February 2012)

I always think it would have been interesting if only the aboriginals were here in WW2.
I wonder how the aboriginals would have fared, tent embassy in front of the Japanese parliament.LOL
Burning and spitting on the Japanese flag.LOL
Also, it would be interesting to see how the welfare system, would be working out for them.LOL
You don't see many asylum seekers rushing to get to Japan, there's a reason for that.


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## todster (1 February 2012)

sptrawler said:


> I always think it would have been interesting if only the aboriginals were here in WW2.
> I wonder how the aboriginals would have fared, tent embassy in front of the Japanese parliament.LOL
> Burning and spitting on the Japanese flag.LOL
> Also, it would be interesting to see how the welfare system, would be working out for them.LOL
> You don't see many asylum seekers rushing to get to Japan, there's a reason for that.




Probably better than in Hiroshima


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## Gringotts Bank (1 February 2012)

Time for another nit picking grammar check.

The indigenous are known as _Aborigines _(noun).  They are _Aboriginal _(adjective).


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## bellenuit (1 February 2012)

Bill M said:


> Just had this come to my email.




Personally I find that t-shirt as offensive as burning the Australian flag. I'm not prudish, but I think MF is probably the most vile word in the English language. Whereas the F word can add to the power, meaning or effectiveness of a sentence if used correctly, I have yet to hear anyone use the MF without demonstrating themselves to be anything but a vulgar moron. 

The wearer of that t-shirt, by displaying the flag above the MF word regardless of who might be offended by the word or the fact that children might be exposed to it, is associating respect for or protection of the Australian flag as the preserve of brain dead bogans.


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## Macquack (1 February 2012)

Bill M said:


> Just had this come to my email.




If that guy were so tough then he would not be wearing his t-shirt "back to front".


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## Calliope (1 February 2012)

bellenuit said:


> Personally I find that t-shirt as offensive as burning the Australian flag. I'm not prudish, but I think MF is probably the most vile word in the English language. Whereas the F word can add to the power, meaning or effectiveness of a sentence if used correctly, I have yet to hear anyone use the MF without demonstrating themselves to be anything but a vulgar moron.
> 
> The wearer of that t-shirt, by displaying the flag above the MF word regardless of who might be offended by the word or the fact that children might be exposed to it, is associating respect for or protection of the Australian flag as the preserve of brain dead bogans.




I agree bellenuit. It is a particularly disgusting  Americanism, and *anybody *displaying the flag on their body or their face *is* a brain dead bogun.


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## breaker (1 February 2012)

todster said:


> Probably better than in Hiroshima




but that was after the fact it might be different if the japs won


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## Bill M (1 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> *anybody *displaying the flag on their body or their face *is* a brain dead bogun.




Or wearing it as a cape and then progressing to bash anybody of Mediterranean appearance over the head with a beer bottle.

I think it's a bit weird to have it on our thongs too, I mean walking on the flag, very disrespectful in some countries. OK here though, funny mob we are.


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## sptrawler (1 February 2012)

breaker said:


> but that was after the fact it might be different if the japs won




The Japs were too far away to steal the German nuclear scientists, the Poms and Yanks did that. 
Then they developed 'instant sunshine' we were just lucky the Germans were the ones who would have designed the first atom bomb, from all accounts I've read.


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## breaker (2 February 2012)

sptrawler said:


> The Japs were too far away to steal the German nuclear scientists, the Poms and Yanks did that.
> Then they developed 'instant sunshine' we were just lucky the Germans were the ones who would have designed the first atom bomb, from all accounts I've read.




How would we be if the Germans one,they did'nt do much for the jews


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## todster (2 February 2012)

breaker said:


> but that was after the fact it might be different if the japs won




What do you mean like no toyotas.


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## Calliope (2 February 2012)

Are aboriginal law-breakers untouchable?



> Witness the comment of Northern Territory Labor Minister for Young Territorians Rob Knight. "For some little pricks to get there and stomp on our flag and set fire to it -- there should be laws against it." His target was the young, apparently untouchable, Aborigines who burned the Australian flag following the Aboriginal tent embassy imbroglio. The same could be said of the apparently untouchable Aborigines who stormed the Canberra restaurant containing Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...is-the-new-black/story-fn8v83qk-1226260007432


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## DB008 (24 April 2012)

Looks like there could be a repeat in the winds....



> ABOUT 150 people, some of them teenagers, have yelled abuse at police outside NSW parliament in protest at the shooting of two youths at Kings Cross.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/national/youth-no-stranger-to-police-or-courts-teen-joyriders-long-criminal-history/story-e6frfkvr-1226336629317

What exactly are teenagers doing in a stolen car, at 4am, in Kings Cross????


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## ColB (24 April 2012)

DB008 said:


> Looks like there could be a repeat in the winds....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Exercising their 'indigenous' rights in their country.  How dare the Police strike a mere teenager


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## Macquack (24 April 2012)

DB008 said:


> What exactly are teenagers doing in a stolen car, at 4am, in Kings Cross????




The kids are obviously out of control, but that does not justify shooting two of them.



ColB said:


> Exercising their 'indigenous' rights in their country.  How dare the Police strike a mere teenager




That is a very low statement.

If you can't see that the police where heavy handed in this incident, you are a dope as well as a racist.


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## Renitent_Precept (24 April 2012)

I read the title and didn't even bother reading the subsequent replies. This makes me so angry.

I'm 23, at uni and from a Chinese family. Having said that I was born here and have lived here ever since.

This sort of thing makes me so angry. It's one thing where it happens in a foreign country to protest something we are involved in, but to those people who do it here, shame on you. It's a despicable act, full of disrespect, ignorance and hypocrisy.

I can't see or read a report about such acts without getting incredibly pissed off. /RANT


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2012)

I'm feeling distinctly uncomfortable with all this name calling of other Australians.

Especially with it being Anzac Day tomorrow.

Let us see what we can agree on, for the sake of our forebears whether they have been black fellas or white fellas, or as is often the case a mixture of both.

I like our flag, and do not like it being spat upon or burnt.

It shows a lack of respect.

That is my take on it.

These kids in Sydney and the coppers will have their say and day in court. It sounds like it all happened in an instant.

Judge ye not etc.

gg


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## moXJO (24 April 2012)

Macquack said:


> The kids are obviously out of control, but that does not justify shooting two of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When a women is stuck under the car as they drive over her then its reason to shoot.  I back the cops on this one.
 Pulling the race card to win an argument you can do better


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## CanOz (24 April 2012)

Macquack said:


> The kids are obviously out of control, but that does not justify shooting two of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agree, there are other means to subdue an aggressively behaving individual...

CanOz


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## CanOz (24 April 2012)

moXJO said:


> When a women is stuck under the car as they drive over her then its reason to shoot.




Whoa, didn't realize that.....should have read the link....was she killed?

CanOz


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## DB008 (24 April 2012)

moXJO said:


> When a women is stuck under the car as they drive over her then its reason to shoot.  I back the cops on this one.
> Pulling the race card to win an argument you can do better




*EXACTLY*



CanOz said:


> Whoa, didn't realize that.....should have read the link....was she killed?
> 
> CanOz




No, luckily.


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## moXJO (24 April 2012)

> Police noticed the young driver and five passengers in the car and pursued on foot. Police alleged the car travelled along the footpath for about 100m as pedestrians jumped out of the way.
> 
> Officers pounced when one woman became pinned under the moving car.
> 
> "At which point OSG police drew their firearms and approached the vehicle to prevent serious injuries to the pedestrian who was now underneath the front of the vehicle," it was alleged in court.




There will be a full break down of events in court and the whole lot will be looked at in the slow motion of hindsight. In the real world you get seconds to react and then driven by an emotional charge from the sheer stupidity of criminals actions. I don't condone the handling of the suspects after it but can understand how it happened. Imo it had little to do with race.


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## sails (24 April 2012)

moXJO said:


> ... Imo it had little to do with race.





Agree moXJO - far more likely the combination of drink, drugs and too much youthful gung-ho fueled on by peer pressure.  More likely race (or gangs or whatever) is just the excuse.


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## Macquack (24 April 2012)

moXJO said:


> Pulling the race card to win an argument you can do better






moXJO said:


> Imo it had little to do with race.




Exactly, so re-read ColB's quote which he would not have penned if the youths were white?


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## sails (24 April 2012)

Macquack said:


> Exactly, so re-read ColB's quote which he would not have penned if the youths were white?





I don't care what colour their skin is - crime is crime.


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## Julia (24 April 2012)

Macquack said:


> The kids are obviously out of control, but that does not justify shooting two of them.



So how would you have controlled the situation, Macquack?  There's a woman whom they ran over, actually under the car.  Tell us just what the police should have done, remembering the kids in the car were showing no indication of stopping and would almost certainly have injured more people.



> If you can't see that the police where heavy handed in this incident, you are a dope as well as a racist.




For heaven's sake, can't we discuss this without your having to deliver personal insult to someone just because they express a different point of view?


moXJO said:


> When a women is stuck under the car as they drive over her then its reason to shoot.  I back the cops on this one.



 +1.


moXJO said:


> There will be a full break down of events in court and the whole lot will be looked at in the slow motion of hindsight. In the real world you get seconds to react and then driven by an emotional charge from the sheer stupidity of criminals actions. I don't condone the handling of the suspects after it but can understand how it happened. Imo it had little to do with race.



Agree entirely.


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## moXJO (24 April 2012)

Macquack said:


> Exactly, so re-read ColB's quote which he would not have penned if the youths were white?




Sorry mac missed that before. 
I think there is an ignition point that both sides are trying to force (in the wider community).   Newspapers have kept the comments off the articles and placing the story a little further from view which is sensible at this time. Last thing we need is another Cronulla.


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## ColB (25 April 2012)

Macquack said:


> Exactly, so re-read ColB's quote which he would not have penned if the youths were white?




If the youths were white we probably wouldn't be even debating the actions of Police surrounding this incident.  It is the actions of the indigenous demonstrating outside NSW Parliament over the alleged ill-treatment of the 'offender/s' that have raised the race card issue.  

*My comments which were very much tongue in cheek were aimed at the bleeding left* who would be the first to jump up and down and complain about Police inaction should these offenders had gone on to cause further injury or death.

In my opinion the Police had done what was absolutley neccessary whether the offenders had been black or white."

*Re: Spitting on and burning the Australian Flag 
 Originally Posted by Macquack*

The kids are obviously out of control, but that does not justify shooting two of them.

That is a very low statement.

If you can't see that the police where heavy handed in this incident, you are a dope as well as a racist." END QUOTE


Just another example of an arm chair critic not armed with the facts passing judgement on the actions of others whose charter it is to protect life and property. [ColB]


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## Calliope (25 April 2012)

ColB said:


> Just another example of an arm chair critic not armed with the facts passing judgement on the actions of others whose charter it is to protect life and property. [ColB]




Yes Col, and to call someone racist is a common slur used by the intolerant. You can safely ignore it.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 April 2012)

Macquack, I understand you hold firm views, but using the word racist in this context is not useful. As a victim of racism, I would be extremely wary of using it myself, to describe another.

There are many other adjectives and adverbs in the English language better suited to your purposes above.

You run the danger of turning the word racist in to a pilgerism.

gg


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## McLovin (25 April 2012)

If a girl was trapped under the car while it was moving then I believe the police did the right thing is doing whatever they could to bring that car to a stop, including the use of lethal force.

Once that car had been brought to a stop, and the passengers had been shot and were lying on the pavement, I don't see why that single police officer took it upon himself to dispense with his own kind of justice. For that, he should be brought infront of a court to explain himself.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 April 2012)

McLovin said:


> If a girl was trapped under the car while it was moving then I believe the police did the right thing is doing whatever they could to bring that car to a stop, including the use of lethal force.
> 
> Once that car had been brought to a stop, and the passengers had been shot and were lying on the pavement, I don't see why that single police officer took it upon himself to dispense with his own kind of justice. For that, he should be brought infront of a court to explain himself.




That is a very reasonable statement.

gg


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## breaker (25 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Macquack, I understand you hold firm views, but using the word racist in this context is not useful. As a victim of racism, I would be extremely wary of using it myself, to describe another.
> 
> There are many other adjectives and adverbs in the English language better suited to your purposes above.
> 
> ...




Are u black


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## wayneL (25 April 2012)

Calliope said:


> Yes Col, and to call someone racist is a common slur used by the intolerant. You can safely ignore it.




Ironic, ain't it.


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## Macquack (25 April 2012)

ColB said:


> *My comments which were very much tongue in cheek .
> *



*

So you made a racist comment "tongue in cheek", fair enough. 

But, I make no apology for responding on the "face value" of your comment.*


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## Knobby22 (26 April 2012)

Just like to point out that Aborigines fought for us in WW1 and WW2 even though we still hadn't granted them citizenship.

http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/aborigines/indigenous.asp

Enlistment and Service First World War
When war broke out in 1914, many Aborigines who tried to enlist were rejected on the grounds of race; others slipped through the net. By October 1917, when recruits were harder to find and one conscription referendum had already been lost, restrictions were cautiously eased. A new Military Order stated: "Half-castes may be enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force provided that the examining Medical Officers are satisfied that one of the parents is of European origin."


This was as far as Australia – officially – would go.



Enlistment Second World War
At the start of the Second World War Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders were allowed to enlist and many did so. But in 1940 the Defence Committee decided the enlistment of Indigenous Australians was "neither necessary not desirable", partly because White Australians would object to serving with them. However, when Japan entered the war increased need for manpower forced the loosening of restrictions. Torres Strait Islanders were recruited in large numbers and Aborigines increasingly enlisted as soldiers and were recruited or conscripted into labour corps.

In the front line
With the Japanese advance in 1942, Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders in the north found themselves in the front line against the attackers. There were fears that Aboriginal contact with Japanese pearlers before the war might lead to their giving assistance to the enemy. Like the peoples of South-East Asia under colonial regimes, Aborigines might easily have seen the Japanese as liberators from White rule. Many did express bitterness at their treatment, but, overwhelmingly, Indigenous Australians supported the country's defence.

Service in the army
Hundreds of Aborigines served in the 2nd AIF and the militia. Many were killed fighting and at least a dozen died as prisoners of war. As in the First World War, Aborigines served under the same conditions as Whites and, in most cases, with the promise of full citizenship rights after the war. Generally, there seems to have been little racism between soldiers.

In 1941 the Torres Strait Light Infantry Battalion was formed to defend the strategically-important Torres Strait area. Other Islander units were also created, especially for water transport and as coastal artillery. The battalion never had the chance to engage the enemy but some were sent on patrol into Japanese-controlled Dutch New Guinea.

By 1944 almost every able-bodied male Torres Strait Islander had enlisted. However, they never received the same rates of pay or conditions as White soldiers. At first their pay was one-third that of regular soldiers. After a two-day "mutiny" in December 1943 this was raised to two-thirds.

In proportion to population, no community in Australia contributed more to the war effort in the Second World War than the Islanders of the Torres Strait.


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## DB008 (26 April 2012)

*Mundine sentiment missing the mark*

PAUL SHEEHAN 
April 26, 2012



> In Kings Cross on Saturday morning, Sarah Roberts and Tanya Donaldson were on the footpath when they were bowled over. Roberts, 29, was rushed to hospital. The joyriders going to Kings Cross in a stolen car were begging for trouble and it duly came when a police foot patrol, attempting to stop a vehicle that had already hit two women, fired into the front window to immobilise the car.
> 
> Predictably, Anthony Mundine, he of the quick fists and quick mouth, entered the fray via Twitter: ''Heartbreaking day for me visiting 14 y.o kid shot by police at Kings Cross. I'm at loss to understand how cops could shoot unarmed kids!!!''
> He later added: ''Barry O'Farrell needs to take a serious look at his police force. All I keep hearing about [is] trigger happy cops killing people. Wrong fo[r] real!!!''
> ...




I could only copy a fraction of the story, more on link below...
http://m.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/mundine-sentiment-missing-the-mark-20120425-1xlil.html


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## Starcraftmazter (26 April 2012)

DB008 said:


> What exactly are teenagers doing in a stolen car, at 4am, in Kings Cross????




Why...running over pedestrians of course!!



Macquack said:


> If you can't see that the police where heavy handed in this incident, you are a dope as well as a racist.




Heavy handed? That's a matter of opinion.

If an aboriginal person thought it was a justified, would he also be a racist?
If those teenagers were white, would we be racist?
Why the hypocrisy?


I love all the buttmad people protesting over this, hope someone runs them over in a car.


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## DB008 (26 April 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> I love all the buttmad people protesting over this, hope someone runs them over in a car.




SCM, probably the only time l'll ever agree with you, ever...


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## Garpal Gumnut (26 April 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> I love all the buttmad people protesting over this, hope someone runs them over in a car.




+1 SCM

gg


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