# Short interest - where can I find level?



## markrmau (29 September 2004)

Hi,

Can someone please tell me how to determine the number of shorts taken out against a stock?

I don't intend to trade derivatives though.


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## markrmau (30 September 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*

ok I found this link:

http://tradingroom.com.au/apps/mkt/derivatives.ac

Any links for all stocks?


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## crashy (1 October 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*

that doesnt show shorts

it shows options traded, and you cant tell whether they are bought or sold.

I doubt the ASX has any sort of short tally, they dont even do a VIX, TRIN or TICK


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## wayneL (1 October 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*



			
				crashy said:
			
		

> that doesnt show shorts
> 
> it shows options traded, and you cant tell whether they are bought or sold.




Uuuummmmm....If an option is bought, someone has to have sold it and visa versa, eh? Even if it was the dirty rotten MM!


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## crashy (2 October 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*

bzzzz

If an option TRADES, was the MM the buyer or the seller? Pretty big bloody difference!

If a trader SHORTS 100 contracts in the morning, then COVERS them in the arvo, you would have us believe there are 200 short contracts, since that is what the volume would show?

rofl

I repeat:

OPTION VOLUME CANNOT TELL YOU WHETHER TRADERS ARE NET LONG OR SHORT, OR HAVE INCREASED/DECREASED THEIR POSITION.

Open Interest would be more useful, or look at volume of warrants, at least you cant short a warrant. Or get real technical and compare OI with vol.


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## wayneL (3 October 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*



			
				crashy said:
			
		

> bzzzz
> 
> If an option TRADES, was the MM the buyer or the seller? Pretty big bloody difference!
> 
> ...





double bzzzz plus pffft...

So the the MM is not a trader? I guess that's why they are called "Registered TRADERS". 

I can personally assume the role of an additional MM in any option series I choose alongside the RT... even the sole MM in series where an RT is not obligated to make a market. Does that mean I am no longer a trader. Pullllleeeze.

>>If a trader SHORTS 100 contracts in the morning, then COVERS them in the arvo, you would have us believe there are 200 short contracts, since that is what the volume would show?<<

Your logic here is a tad absurd, as there would have an equal number of longs on the other side. Where did you get 200 short contracts from. The records would show volume of 200 consisting of two trades with a 0 net effect on OI.

Crashy you should know the mechanics by now: (assuming the same parties are involved in the trade)

Trade1: 
trader 1 - sells 200 cotracts to open
trader 2 - buys 200 contracts to open

TRade 2;
trader 1 - buys 200 contracts to close 
trader 2 - sells 200 contracts to close

trader 2 may or may not be an MM..... could be another mug trader.

Trying to quantify whether the mug traders are long or short tells us nought.


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## crashy (3 October 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> The records would show volume of 200 consisting of two trades with a 0 net effect on OI.




Isnt that what I said?

http://tradingroom.com.au/apps/mkt/derivatives.ac
shows volume, not OI. As I said, you need to look at OI. 

If NCP shows 100 contracts traded, what does that mean? Simply that! 100 contracts have traded. It could be that a private trader sold to open 100 contracts, which were bought by a MM. Or maybe they were bought by another private trader. Or maybe the private trader was buying to open. Or maybe the private trader bought to open in the morning, and sold to close at night......or vice versa. There is *no way to tell*, unless you compare the figures with OI as I said, which wont get updated till overnight.

I might add that the MM does not have an opinion about the stock movement. He simply profits from the spread. It is a very different situation when a private trader sells to another private trader. One party wants to sell, and the other wants to buy. A MM does not "want" to buy or sell, he simply hopes to buy at the bid and sell at the offer, providing a risk free profit with a nett zero position.



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> Trying to quantify whether the mug traders are long or short tells us nought.




So then why the hell are you arguing? If the volume figures are meaningless, which is what I said earlier, whats the point of this? As usual you are trying to turn this into a dick measuring contest. Leave the ego out of it.

Dissagree that the position of mug traders tells us nothing. Have you ever heard of max-main theory? Stock price will often close at expiry with the value that causes the maximum number of options to expire worthless. Its not a conspiracy, its just market dynamics. Market makers also happen to be the biggest traders of the underlying, which means it is silly to sell down a stock if it means you will lose more money on your option position. This does not stop other funds from buying stock though, but since a seller has walked away, the price will naturally rise. hey presto, the MM cleans up.

So *yes*, the position of mug traders DOES matter a great deal.


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## wayneL (5 October 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*



			
				crashy said:
			
		

> As usual you are trying to turn this into a dick measuring contest.




eewwww! The mere thought of it makes me dry wretch. I will need a few days to recover from that one.

Crashy youget so flustered when people disagree with you and always accuse them of ego, conspiricy etc. Does that say something about the accuser? psychologists often comment that it does...

Anyway; I would love to discuss max pain and other concepts that might disagree with your standard texbook option material, but that would be a very long post and am a tad busy tonight. I have had this reply window open for 3.5 hours already so will leave for another time.

Stay tuned ;-)


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## SuperTed (13 November 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*

markmrau Open Interest (OI) is what your after, not volume.

Now sits back and watches ;-)


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## tech/a (13 November 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*

There is a full list on the ASX site.

I havent looked at it for years.
My broker directed me to it when I was doing some research into shorting.
If I cant find it Ill ask again.
I was supprised at the number of open shorts.
Ill post the link when i find it---but rest assured its certaintly there.

tech


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## tech/a (13 November 2004)

*Re: Short interest - where can I find level*

Found it.

http://www.asx.com.au/data/shortsell.txt


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