# Ways to build wealth at a young age?



## ThingyMajiggy (14 September 2013)

Hey all, 

Just curious as to your thoughts on ways to create/build wealth for a young person these days, I am in my 20s and was just thinking over what I could do to build up some wealth, obviously as fast as possible. 

So I was curious to what you older guys thought, if you had your time over again where would you put your money or what would you do with it? Also if there are other young guys here what, if anything, are they doing? 

I guess there are: 

- Shares
- Savings account
- Some say property but I don't see how I can get into property at a young age. 
- ??? 

I would love to trade but that also requires a decent starting amount, so even if there are any options to build up a base lump sum to then do something with, would be great to hear some ideas, especially from experienced guys who know what's worked and what hasn't. I don't have much of an issue with risk, I would rather have high risk and quicker gains than slow gains that I can use when my hip is busted and I need a stick to walk around on. 

Cheers


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## sydboy007 (14 September 2013)

There's generally no right or wrong way to building wealth.  I do recommend slow and steady rather than trying to strike it rich quick.

When you first start out possible ETFs are a good way to invest in shares, but gain diversification cheaply, especially when looking internationally.

LICs (Listed Investment Companies) offer a similar diverse investment, and some of them have very enviable records of beating the market over multiple decades - AFI and ARG are the grand daddies of the sector and both have performed very well.

Know your risk profile.  How would you feel a couple of months after buying some shares to see them down 20%?  Would you just up and sell?

Check out FIIG securities.  They have a good newsletter called The Wire which is quite educational around the fixed interest market of bonds.  They also do Inflation Linked Bonds and floating rate notes too.  There's corporate bonds offering well over 6% yields for minimal risk.  That's a decent return in a low interest rate environment.

I'm pretty skeptical about investing in residential property these days.  I just don't see you making a lot of money out of it, especially if you're stuck negatively gearing it.  Between the losses and inflation you need to be making 6%+ capital growth just to break even.  throw in the opportunity cost of lost income from alternative investments and i reckon i can be a good 5% a year better off than a lot of property investors.

Interest rates are so low that most savings account and term deposits don't leave you much after inflation and tax, but they can be good if your savings horizon is short.


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## tech/a (14 September 2013)

Calculated risk.
I'd be trading stock at under 10c 
Which has a high potential of
Trading above 10c
The tick size increases from .1 of a cent 
To .5 of a cent.
Risk can be set in .1s and good profit
If it reaches the .5 s

Post 236 here is a great example

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22128&page=12

20 yrs ago when doing a diploma in tech analysis there was a young broker doing the same course.
We used to chat at the break and he was rattling on about a stock called DAVNET (DVT)

He'd bought 100000 at 6c so $6k worth.
At the end of the 12 week course it was 15c
We kept in contact and he moved to Sydney for a better position.
We talked on the phone every now and again.
I watched DVT

At one point it was over $7 and I asked him when he was going to sell.
He said "When it makes me a millionaire"

It never did it fell from mid $7's and he eventually sold in the high $3s and bought
a decent house in Sydney in the early 90s it was a hefty deposit.

Sir O
here at ASF had Peptec at a few cents and sold at $3s making 100s of Ks.

Can be done.

Gold went from $250 to $1800
OIL from 40 a barrel to 150
AUD 50c to $1.10

All life changing if you get on them long enough.

You *ONLY NEED ONE!*


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## ThingyMajiggy (14 September 2013)

tech/a said:


> Calculated risk.
> I'd be trading stock at under 10c
> Which has a high potential of
> Trading above 10c
> ...




Yeah was thinking along these lines tech, how to pick the stocks though? Fundamentals or price action with stocks that low?


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## tech/a (14 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah was thinking along these lines tech, how to pick the stocks though? Fundamentals or price action with stocks that low?




You were too quick!
see above.


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## Gringotts Bank (14 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just curious as to your thoughts on ways to create/build wealth for a young person these days, I am in my 20s and was just thinking over what I could do to build up some wealth, obviously as fast as possible.




Pretty much all the very wealthy people I've ever met have created their own business.  The business is big enough to sustain at least 10/20/50 employees, the more the better obviously.  Hard work I'd reckon.  I've never done it.  The ones I've met all work very long hours and have plenty of energy to burn.

'Medical specialist' and 'barrister' are popular occupations because they are very reliable ways to make a lot of money as an employee and/or 1 man band... slowly at first and then very quickly later on.  Not many other professions have this level of reliability - it's built into the culture and there's a degree of manipulation that goes on by the respective professional boards to ensure the continuing wealth of its members (ie. they heavily restrict intake to ensure rarity value, and they price fix).

Outside of this, you either need:
- a highly sought-after or rare skill (professional sports person, actor, artist, musician, scientist, mathmatician) 
- wealthy parents (which should ensure a wealthy mindset - don't underestimate the power of this)
- to become a white collar professional (engineer, GP, solicitor etc) and invest wisely and regularly.  Don't spend a cent!

But if you have to ask, that probably means you're not moving in the sort of circles where wealth is a natural and expected way of life.  That puts you behind the eight ball.  Your mindset will be the biggest obstacle.


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## So_Cynical (14 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> So I was curious to what you older guys thought, *if you had your time over again* where would you put your money or what would you do with it?




I would select 5 stocks that have a growth story and real world potential, stocks that are currently cheapish and mostly outside the ASX200 ~ split all my funds between them and focus on building my position in only those 5 stocks.

Choose very well, be patient..be committed.


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## Sdajii (14 September 2013)

Haha! A young guy wanting a get rich quick plan! 

I played with a few bits and pieces - small business ventures, contractor work in various industries, unconventional agriculture (no, not the illegal type  ). I then got financially wiped out in my late 20s, took a mediochre job in an office, saved up almost $2k, stuck it on a safe trade a friend had told me about (while in my break at work), made a few hundred dollars, got cocky, started trading on the most risky things I could find, and with a large amount of good luck and some degree of aptitude I had the portfolio over $200k within two years. Trading shares has been the backbone of my economy since then, and on the whole it has been pretty good, although if I took the same sorts of risks I did at the start I'd lose more than I'd gain, so I play more conservatively (I still probably play it more riskily than 90% of traders/investors though).

Luck could have gone the other way at first and I may have been spooked into never getting back into it. I did lose about $20k when I was only up to about $30k, and I'd put the best part of $10k of what I'd earned at work etc. into it, but I suppose I decided to stick at it anyway.

Some of my friends have made more than I have in property, some in business, some by playing corporate politics, some have never had any money, some like myself have financially fluctuated quite a bit. There are plenty of ways to make money, but they're not the same for everyone. One man's recipe for success is another man's recipe for failure. I can see exactly how some of my friends have found success, but I could not hope to do the same things myself, either because I lack the same skills or because I have the wrong personality, or I just don't want to. The same could be said about others being unable to do what I do. The important thing is to find something you like and something you're good at. Get stuck into something like that and you'll probably thrive.


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## ThingyMajiggy (14 September 2013)

Sdajii said:


> Haha! A young guy wanting a get rich quick plan!




I don't want a get rich quick plan, although who wouldn't?! I just want to know the quickest way rather than the safest as I am young and can have another crack if it all turns to poop, so why put it in the safe-haven option when there might be something out there faster, more efficient, less, equal, more risk etc....

Seeing as I can program I have also thought about making some apps(of which I have a couple of good ideas) then 99c each and get 500K downloads, a more modern approach to growing some wealth maybe? Depends if lots of people laugh at it, then I'll know it's a good idea


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## tech/a (14 September 2013)

So_Cynical said:


> I would select 5 stocks that have a growth story and real world potential, stocks that are currently cheapish and mostly outside the ASX200 ~ split all my funds between them and focus on building my position in only those 5 stocks.
> 
> Choose very well, be patient..be committed.




Strangely not dis-similar to my suggestion
Only I don't know that anyone can " pick wisely " a stock which will go from cents to multiple dollars.
Maybe YOU can 

A commodity I think is possibly easier ----  taking into account Macro Economics
China/India/Africa/Indonesian demand for example.--- mining
Strength in USD ---- weakness in other currencies ---- weakness in gold.
Etc

So C
Points out  commitment which is the hardest.
My friend watched 300k disappear in the attempt to gain his million.
DVT was eventually delisted so could have been a riches to Rags story
I'm sure there are many!

People like you-with limited capital but age on their side can have that wind fall
But serious money does beget serious money.
When you have your first 100k the journey is well on it's way.

Best of business to you Sam


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## So_Cynical (14 September 2013)

tech/a said:


> Strangely not dis-similar to my suggestion
> Only I don't know that anyone can " pick wisely " a stock which will go from cents to multiple dollars.
> Maybe YOU can




That why i said to choose 5 stocks, thinking that with a bit of luck and some great decision making 1 stock out of the 5 would turn out to be the out performer.



tech/a said:


> A commodity I think is possibly easier ----  taking into account Macro Economics
> China/India/Africa/Indonesian demand for example.--- mining
> Strength in USD ---- weakness in other currencies ---- weakness in gold.
> Etc




Stocks with a growth theme (as above) tied in with a commodity or a major trend or movement of some kind...that's what's needed to get the out performance.


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## TheUnknown (14 September 2013)

Same story here 26 yrs old, all it takes is one right share and you could hit it big time.

I have loaded my account up with $160k and have been waiting for this stock to reach 40cents from 60cents the real value of this company is around $3.00 happy to take the gamble and go all in, it hit $1.00 not long ago.


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## ThingyMajiggy (14 September 2013)

TheUnknown said:


> Same story here 26 yrs old, all it takes is one right share and you could hit it big time.
> 
> I have loaded my account up with $160k and have been waiting for this stock to reach 40cents from 60cents the real value of this company is around $3.00 happy to take the gamble and go all in, it hit $1.00 not long ago.




See, even the fact you're 26 and have loaded your account up with 160K makes me want to go sit in the corner and cry, where/how did you get the 160K in the first place?! That is my issue, not what to do with it. I'm confident I could trade crude oil no worries, just need to build something to start with!


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## Julia (14 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> See, even the fact you're 26 and have loaded your account up with 160K makes me want to go sit in the corner and cry, where/how did you get the 160K in the first place?! That is my issue, not what to do with it. I'm confident I could trade crude oil no worries, just need to build something to start with!



Sam, GB below has made two really important points.   If you're young, you still  have the opportunity to follow the sort of educational path he's talking about, provided of course, you can qualify for entry to these degrees.

Seems to me most people your age want some magic formula, that winning multi bagger stock  etc., which some are lucky or clever enough to find.  Far more, however, just lose their initial stake.

Sure there are going to be people who just strike it lucky and acquire considerable capital at an early age.
Far more will grind their way to financial security.

If I had to pick just one point of comprehension it would be to understand how to take advantage of timing, eg there have been periods when investment in property has reaped astonishing rewards.  We have a separate thread suggesting no one ever wins from high inflation.  I don't agree.  You can make a lot of money from property if  you buy at the right time when inflation is starting to increase, not being deterred by the relevant high interest rates.  Similarly, jumping on a strong uptrend in the sharemarket, if you have a decent initial stake, can bring the same sorts of rewards.

NB   I don't think we're likely to see again the sort of inflation I'm referring to above.  Interest rates in IP were around 22%.

You say your problem is lack of start up capital.  I don't think too many of us have started out with $100K or more.  
My suggestion would be to follow the education path as suggested by GB, or buy some high yield shares with decent growth potential and simply accept that the likelihood of getting rich in your 20's is pretty remote, without the sort of mindset and parental modelling described by GB, and grind your way to financial independence as most of us have.


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## ThingyMajiggy (14 September 2013)

Julia said:


> Sam, GB below has made two really important points.   If you're young, you still  have the opportunity to follow the sort of educational path he's talking about, provided of course, you can qualify for entry to these degrees.
> 
> Seems to me most people your age want some magic formula, that winning multi bagger stock  etc., which some are lucky or clever enough to find.  Far more, however, just lose their initial stake.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply Julia. 

Don't get me wrong, everyone seems to be thinking I'm after a get rich quick type thing, I'm well aware it takes a long time, I've done a stint at prop in sydney, and fiddled with futures trading since 2007 so I'm well aware that it's definitely not a get rich quick thing. Just don't want to be seem to come across that way, I'm not *another* foolish young person who wants to get rich quick, although like I said, who wouldn't if something arose. More so after the best bang for buck option rather than some secret magic method. That's all BS. 

Just asking here to see what you more experienced people would do if you had your time over again at my age, most of you I assume would have gotten into trading/investing in your more middle-aged years rather than low 20's, so it's good to hear from those who have gone through the trial and error stage to see what they would or wouldn't do if they had the opportunity to do it over again. 

Not sure if I agree with the degree option, don't think I should conform to doing what everyone else does simply because it's what everyone else does/did. I think I need determination, time, and the skills necessary to achieve what I want, and what I want is to trade/invest and build wealth. So that is what I concentrate on. I don't see the benefit in spending X years on learning skills to gain some degree, then having a huge debt to pay off when I can spend that time on perfecting this stuff.


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## CanOz (15 September 2013)

Sam, if you are young and single, fit and good looking...move to Asia and find a nice, good looking rich girl.

Just thought I'd give an alternative option.


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## burglar (15 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> ... so it's good to hear from those who have gone through the trial and error stage to see what they would or wouldn't do if they had the opportunity to do it over again.
> ...



I've gone through the trial and error stage.
I got it dead wrong and was ready to surrender!
That's when I came across ASF
Started over!
Now, at age 61, I have to get it right.


I agree with the duck!
If a duck talks, I listen!


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## KurwaJegoMac (15 September 2013)

I've done a lot of research on how people became millionaires - specifically first generation millionaires (i.e. self-made). Why not follow what they've done?

From all the books, surveys and studies I've read, there is a consistent pattern to how self-made millionaires made it. 

Approximately:

- 75% were self employed (i.e. ran their own business)
- 10% were Executives at large companies
- 10% were elites/specialists in their profession (the best of the doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, etc)
- 4% recieved an inheretance from a relative (like a cousin or aunty; remember these are stats for people not born in a millionaire household)
- 1% everything else

Think about and reflect on those stats and where you have the best chance of succeeding. This has been a consistent theme across everything I have read and people I have spoken to.


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## ROE (15 September 2013)

CanOz said:


> Sam, if you are young and single, fit and good looking...move to Asia and find a nice, good looking rich girl.
> 
> Just thought I'd give an alternative option.




Obviously you haven't read an afr article
On love hunter in China...
Match making is big business where commission
Run into hundred of thousand of US dollars

Girls are extreme high valuable commodity 
Some dude pay close to a million USD to match maker
Find him a wife -


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## Lone Wolf (15 September 2013)

Sam,

From what I can see of your trading thread, you take small profits and small losses. You also seem to have small drawdown relative to profits, at least from what you've shown us. Do you really need that large of an account to start growing it if you start on one contract? 

Can you adapt your trading method to work on a CFD to reduce account size requirements? Or does paying the spread kill your edge?

Do as you suggested and develop some apps in your spare time. Everybody is doing it these days, but still, one good idea could make a difference. If you have the skill and the time then go for it. (Assuming if it doesn't cost much to become a developer)

Or just get a job and save hard. Refine your trading skills on sim until you have a properly funded account. May sound boring, but you need something to make something.


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## ROE (15 September 2013)

The best way to get rich is run your own business
Or have highly paid job and invest
Most of the excess cash..

Otherwise do what most people do
Find a job you enjoy and spend less
Than earn and invest the saving by 
the time you retire
You should have a decent bucket..

It is possible to acquire millions having a
Normal job you enjou and invest wisely...

If I have my time again I do exactly the same thing
Find a job I enjoy and can work well into my 70s
and start invest and have family early in
Life...

When you have a job you enjoy you are
Less stressful and you tend to do well in that field
You have plenty of time for your kids and 
Plenty of time to invest and enjoy life 

No need to get excess rich -

Three things make people happy
1. Their job
2. Their health
3. Enough money to do their stuff they like on a daily basis

If you got a job you like and healthy that 2 out of three
You just need to slowly build up number three with time and 
Compounding


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## Gringotts Bank (15 September 2013)

ROE said:


> The best way to get rich is run your own business
> Or have highly paid job and invest
> Most of the excess cash..
> 
> ...




What's with the 
Use of poetic
Style of layout?

I guess it makes
For easy reading,
And that might ensure
Better understanding.

Each line
Begins with a capital letter,
And each stanza
Has its own theme.

I've noticed one feathered
Critter on ASF
Was the first to
Successfully adopt such a tactic.

Tricky.


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## Julia (15 September 2013)

Sam, your life path probably needs to be about more than money.   One of the reasons so many people are up for studying for a few years in order to have a professional career, is not just the financial reward, but the social interaction that comes with it.   

This might be something you find irrelevant.  You might be entirely happy in your own company, trading.
But most of us need social interaction and many careers are built on family and social connections.

Once you have a good education, it's with you always and it's a lot harder to acquire later in life when - due to other commitments - you're obliged to hold down a full time job.

I'm not attempting to change your previously expressed view on this, but maybe a longer term focus on your future might balance out some of the impatience you seem to be feeling at present.

Kurwo..... gave some interesting stats above.  Always the pessimist, I'd just add that we need to remember the number of businesses that fail.


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## ThingyMajiggy (15 September 2013)

Interesting replies. 

Trading for me would be my business, I don't see why starting a business is the best way, when 1. You need a business idea to create 2. You need a huge lump sum of start up capital anyway and 3. 75% or whatever the latest percentage rate is of businesses fail within the first 2 years. 

I have a much better chance of trading successfully seeing as I have much more experience in this than I do starting/running/sustaining my own business. 

Yeah I guess I'm different to everyone else Julia, I don't need to do a course for social reasons. That is just a waste of time to me, I'd rather do what I want to do and push for something that my heart is in. 

Lone Wolf, yeah that is where I'm at now, I feel I can trade crude well and have had around 6 losers in the last 100 or so trades so things are going okay, and I am of course saving as much as I can. 

Thanks for the replies thus far, interesting read  At least it's making me realise what I don't want to do, that's better than nothing. I have some idea now how I am going to build up, tech and Lone Wolf are on the money for me 

I'd much rather build up my own self made wealth than inherit or get it some other way, much more appreciated and I think it'd help in being less reckless when deciding what to do with it and how.


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## TheUnknown (15 September 2013)

property reno/property development now currently overseas and got a lease on 40 new cars to set up a taxi service business estimated return of $1200-$1500 per day.


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## tech/a (15 September 2013)

TheUnknown said:


> property reno/property development now currently overseas and got a lease on 40 new cars to set up a taxi service business estimated return of $1200-$1500 per day.




Great hints for someone young and under capitalized.
For tosser value I score a 9.5.


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## TheUnknown (15 September 2013)

Well your input was better..how 20 years ago someone made money LOL or this part Sir O
here at ASF had Peptec at a few cents and sold at $3s making 100s of Ks.

tosser value i score 10.

i answered the OP by saying how i made money not bragged,clearly it said property reno/development and business venture they BOTH are easier to make money then SHARES.


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## tech/a (15 September 2013)

TheUnknown said:


> Well your input was better..how 20 years ago someone made money LOL or this part Sir O
> here at ASF had Peptec at a few cents and sold at $3s making 100s of Ks.
> 
> tosser value i score 10.
> ...




Well---
Having experience in both
Have a Civil Construction Company and 
Have run many of my own developments.
There is a time/place/ capability
All three for the OP are missing.

Practical value then I score a 0


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## ThingyMajiggy (15 September 2013)

tech/a said:


> There is a time/place/ capability
> All three for the OP are missing.




Huh??


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## tech/a (15 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Huh??




Sam 
Your not serious?

Time
Now is not the time for property Reno development
Or new business venture
Place
Here and now
Capability.
You don't have the capital for either.


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## db94 (15 September 2013)

I myself am in the same situation as you. I'm 19 years old and currently at uni, looking for ways to build some wealth. If you find a good way, let me know :

On a serious note, I have traded shares and had some success and some losses as well. It appears my biggest trouble is getting enough capital to invest properly, which sounds like is your problem as well. From what Ive learnt from others who are successful, it comes down to hard work, discipline and perhaps a bit of luck.

I guess it comes down to your definition of 'wealth', time frame to get wealthy and how much risk you'll take.


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## ThingyMajiggy (15 September 2013)

tech/a said:


> Sam
> Your not serious?
> 
> Time
> ...




Ahh I see, I thought you mean't I didn't have time, was in the wrong place and had no capability, didn't realise you were referring to the property reno development  my bad!


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## tech/a (15 September 2013)

db94 said:


> I myself am in the same situation as you. I'm 19 years old and currently at uni, looking for ways to build some wealth. If you find a good way, let me know :
> 
> On a serious note, I have traded shares and had some success and some losses as well. It appears my biggest trouble is getting enough capital to invest properly, which sounds like is your problem as well. From what Ive learnt from others who are successful, it comes down to hard work, discipline and perhaps a bit of luck.
> 
> I guess it comes down to your definition of 'wealth', time frame to get wealthy and how much risk you'll take.




Lots and lots of luck.
As the saying goes

" the harder I work he luckier I get "

But I look at it a little differently.

(1) Look for opportunity
(2) Learn how to take advantage of the opportunity
(3) DO SOMETHING!

Most recognize opportunity
Few know how to take advantage of it or are in the position to.
Of those that can ---- few do anything --- frozen with fear!

Ever noticed how those who take advantage  of opportunity and are successful
Many spectacularly so are often seen as terribly LUCKY!

Are they?


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## tech/a (15 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Ahh I see, I thought you mean't I didn't have time, was in the wrong place and had no capability, didn't realise you were referring to the property reno development  my bad!




Haha 
The English language.
Clearly I lack clarity!


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## Smurf1976 (15 September 2013)

ROE said:


> It is possible to acquire millions having a
> Normal job you enjou and invest wisely...
> 
> ....
> ...



I'm doing a normal job (electrician) but I choose to put in the effort to be more valuable than the average worker in this trade. That plus I've gone into a specialised field of work = well above average pay. 

Downsides? Well there's only one employer in the state doing this work so a change of job would mean either dropping the specialist stuff, and likely a big pay cut, or moving. But it just so happens that I like the work - actually most of it I don't really consider "work" as such - that I'm being paid to do it doesn't change the fact that I actually like it. So there aren't really any downsides of significance to me personally. 

Health - Doing my best to look after myself as well as I can. I'm no athlete, but I'm no couch potato either.

Money - So long as I seek value when spending, I have enough money to do what I want. If petrol goes to $5 a litre (for example) then I'll still go for a scenic drive on a Sunday afternoon if I want to, it won't worry me in the slightest. A key point there is that my lifestyle is fundamentally low cost, such that most expenses are discretionary. 

I own the house outright and it's in good condition - so it costs very little to maintain and I can DIY (to a high quality standard) practically anything that needs doing anyway. I drive a modest car - I could pay cash for a brand new one tomorrow but I'm quite happy with the old one I've got now. I like doing the garden so I won't be paying someone to do it for me. I don't need a new phone, TV and computer every 6 months in order to be happy etc - that alone saves a fortune.

But then I'm more than happy to spend on things I like. If a band that I like is touring then I'll quite happily spend $1000 on a weekend away to go to the show. Air fares, airport parking, taxis and hotel at the other end plus the actual concert ticket - not cheap but then life is for living and I can afford to do what I want to do so I'm happy. 

In short, I choose to be happy. Rather than whinging that economy class travel isn't brilliant, I just take it as part of the experience. A century ago few would have believed that it would even be possible to get from Australia to the US (for example) in less than day. So I'm more than happy to be living in 2013 - sitting in a seat that doesn't recline much and eating mediocre food on the way is a trivial matter really that just doesn't bother me. I'd rather invest more money than spend it on a bigger seat that I'll only sit in for a few hours anyway.

Investing - The main thing I've learned there is to do it sensibly. Get rich gradually, don't aim to be a millionaire by the end of next week. Personally, I'm focused primarily on building a passive income via investment. All investment income is currently put back into more investments, as is a fair bit of my income from working. Good income, low living costs = plenty left over to invest.

Focus on being happy and then everything else becomes a lot easier in my experience. And if you find reason to complain then just consider what life was like for previous generations, all those people fighting wars right now or suffering serious illness and so on. That puts things into perspective pretty quickly and turns a lot of "needs" into what they really are - "wants" that you can choose whether or not to spend your money on with minimal consequence if you don't buy it.


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## SuperGlue (16 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Trading for me would be my business,
> 
> I feel I can trade crude well and have had around 6 losers in the last 100 or so trades so things are going okay, and I am of course saving as much as I can. .




If that is what you want, try or keep trying for a trader's position with one of the Proprietary Futures company, use their money to do what you love i.e trading.


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## ThingyMajiggy (16 September 2013)

SuperGlue said:


> If that is what you want, try or keep trying for a trader's position with one of the Proprietary Futures company, use their money to do what you love i.e trading.




I have. I was at Propex for 8 months, but they wanted me to trade the boring local crap that I have never traded before, plus I have to be in Sydney to do that. Which is massively expensive. My only option left as far as prop goes would be something online like Top Step Trader, but I still can't decide what my opinion of them is yet.


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## waimate01 (16 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Just curious as to your thoughts on ways to create/build wealth for a young person these days, I am in my 20s and was just thinking over what I could do to build up some wealth, obviously as fast as possible.




Get a job, work hard and always go the extra mile with no expectation of immediate reward. 

Do that for 4-5 years, then quit and start your own business. Work hard and always go the extra mile with no expectation of immediate reward. Treat your staff well and ensure they are rewarded when they go the extra mile (it'll make them go three).

Do that for 5-10 years, and start making some serious money. Pay off your mortgage. Get debt free. Then start investing. 

Pretty boring, I know. But overwhelmingly the proven and most reliable path to wealth (say $5-$10m net)


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## boofis (16 September 2013)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> I have. I was at Propex for 8 months, but they wanted me to trade the boring local crap that I have never traded before, plus I have to be in Sydney to do that. Which is massively expensive. My only option left as far as prop goes would be something online like Top Step Trader, but I still can't decide what my opinion of them is yet.




Don't try out for TopStep would be my opinion. 
Start trading 1 contract and only 1 contract sim on Crude for just one month, during that month beg your parents/mates/strangers on the internet to let you live at theirs for free and if you have any bites then take them up on the offer while you go live with 1 ctr on crude. What you got to lose at our age?...answer: hopefully alot less than we have to lose in 20 years time :

waimate01, if we were to liken life choices to trading, would you say your method has an edge?


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## medicowallet (16 September 2013)

Ok.

I think for a young person the best place to invest is in YOURSELF.

Firstly time is akin to money.  wages represent time that you have invested into a pool which you can use to save time or recruit the specialities of others to supply you services or goods.

However if you invest wisely be that in investments or businesses, I think the greatest goal one can aspire to is income generated that is in excess of the equivalent wages you can earn as a full time employee.

So how would I invest my time and money if I was in my 20s again?

1. I would make sure that my qualifications are competitive in my field
2. I would make sure that my experience is competitive in my field

(1 and 2 need to be in balance)

3. I would try to obtain a good diversified portfolio of safe investments which show good capital growth, and for most this would be shares and property, with a cash buffer.    The faster they rise the faster the fall if they are too risky.  I see no difference between having $20 million and $50 million if your lifestyle is not too extravagant.

4. Most will only become very wealthy by "gearing" on the shoulders of others (ie owning businesses)...  getting skills in this area is very very easy for those confident to have a go, and very rewarding.  =  So I would move into a business relatively early ( I was early 20s when I purchased my first business )

5. I would not invest too much time as to not enjoy my youth...   This is a big trap that luckily I did not fall into.


MW


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## WilkensOne (16 September 2013)

medicowallet said:


> Ok.
> 
> 4. Most will only become very wealthy by "gearing" on the shoulders of others (ie owning businesses)...  getting skills in this area is very very easy for those confident to have a go, and very rewarding.  =  So I would move into a business relatively early ( I was early 20s when I purchased my first business )




Hey MW,

Would you mind elaborating a bit about this for us, would be useful to have a bit more information as to what/how you went about it at a relatively young age.. also how it turned out? (not sure how old you are now 

Wilkens


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## Kryzz (16 September 2013)

medicowallet said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> 4. Most will only become very wealthy by "gearing" on the shoulders of others (ie owning businesses)...  getting skills in this area is very very easy for those confident to have a go, and very rewarding.  =  So I would move into a business relatively early ( I was early 20s when I purchased my first business )
> ...






http://www.theage.com.au/business/want-to-get-rich-heres-a-brutal-crash-course-20090403-9rn7.html


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## Smurf1976 (17 September 2013)

waimate01 said:


> Get a job, work hard and always go the extra mile with no expectation of immediate reward.
> 
> Do that for 4-5 years, then quit and start your own business. Work hard and always go the extra mile with no expectation of immediate reward. Treat your staff well and ensure they are rewarded when they go the extra mile (it'll make them go three).



Agreed there. Do not expect immediate reward for _anything_ you do.

It's the single biggest difference I've noticed between employees. Those who go the extra mile versus those who insist on doing only what they are paid to do. The former start out at the bottom, gain skills and move up the ladder. The others stay where they are, often resenting the success of those who go the extra mile.

From the other side, management or business owner, motivation of staff is a key to success. Keep them happy, give them reasonable flexibility, and the better ones will do whatever it takes to make the business successful (and take the advice of such people when they want to try something different - the odds are they've thought about it, probably do know quite a bit about it, and if you don't take the risk then you have no chance of gaining from their perspective). And don't spend your time trying to "penny pinch" and claw back every last cent on staff entitlements etc - it's a false economy in that whatever you save, you'll lose many times over via a demotivated and resentful workforce. 

In short, if someone is doing their job above requirements then just don't worry about a few private photocopies (within reason), how much milk they put in their coffee or things like that. You've already gained far more than you've paid them via high performance - if a ream or two of paper and a few bottles of milk keep them happy then you're getting good value so don't worry about such things. Your time is far better spent growing the business - and you need staff "on side" to make that work (especially when things go wrong which WILL happen sooner or later).

It's the same with customers. Treat them fairly and they'll come back. But if they think you've ripped them off (whether you have actually ripped them off or not) then suffice to say that social media does wonders to weed out such dodgy business operators these days. So be sure to be fair, and to be seen as being fair. Treat customers badly and they do two things - they don't come back and they warn others to stay away too, both of which are likely to cost the business far more than simply fixing whatever the problem was in the first place.

Price is what you pay, value is what you receive. Be wary of paying too little and receiving no real value but likewise don't pay too much. That's the short version of the above comments - pay what you need, no more and no less, and do what you need to do in order to create value.


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