# What makes you really angry?



## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

Here is a change for a general tirade. What makes you really angry ?

Fabians, Communists , whingers, cruelty to animals, dole bludgers, social inequity ?

Let it all hang out and tell us what you really think.

Mindless cruelty and vandalism is what makes me angry. Especially to old people and animals. And those bastards who light bushfires. It makes me think that flogging should be bought back, they don't seem to understand anything else.


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## greggles (8 December 2016)

Injustice in all its forms. I think it's something that's hard to completely understand until it happens to you. Once it does, you never think about it the same way again.


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

greggles said:


> Injustice in all its forms. I think it's something that's hard to completely understand until it happens to you. Once it does, you never think about it the same way again.




How did it get you ?


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## greggles (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> How did it get you ?




The legal system. I realise it's not a perfect system, but if you can't afford justice then you don't get it. It's as simple as that.


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## tech/a (8 December 2016)

People who sweat small stuff.
Pettiness
Tight wads
Back stabbing gutless farkers 
Deception
Selfishness 

Other ducks


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## So_Cynical (8 December 2016)

They Are Slaughtering Us Like Animals - Below is a great online presentaion by the NY times on the current crazyness engulfing the Philippines...this is what you get when you elect a nut.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...drigo-duterte-philippines-drugs-killings.html


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## Joe Blow (8 December 2016)

Spammers, scammers and forum trolls. There's more but that's my top three right now.


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## barney (8 December 2016)

tech/a said:


> People who sweat small stuff.
> Pettiness
> Tight wads
> Back stabbing gutless farkers
> ...




Not sure about other ducks but I've run into the odd quack here and there!


Agree with your list Tech except for the first listing of people who sweat the small stuff ....... That can often be a form of anxiety/social phobia etc etc, and is often totally out of the sufferers control.  I'm sure you were more likely referring to "drama queen" type behavior which I would also agree with, but sweating the small stuff can often be a misinterpreted condition rather than a choice of behavior by those afflicted.  Just thought I'd put my  in on that point for any sufferers who might read your comment and judge your judgement as judgemental Cheers.


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## noco (8 December 2016)

So_Cynical said:


> They Are Slaughtering Us Like Animals - Below is a great online presentaion by the NY times on the current crazyness engulfing the Philippines...this is what you get when you elect a nut.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...drigo-duterte-philippines-drugs-killings.html




I don't have reasons to get angry.......I am cool calm and collective..

If you get angry over infinitesimal things then you should seek some anger management to control yourself. 
:nono:


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## tech/a (8 December 2016)

barney said:


> Not sure about other ducks but I've run into the odd quack here and there!
> 
> 
> Agree with your list Tech except for the first listing of people who sweat the small stuff ....... That can often be a form of anxiety/social phobia etc etc, and is often totally out of the sufferers control.  I'm sure you were more likely referring to "drama queen" type behavior which I would also agree with, but sweating the small stuff can often be a misinterpreted condition rather than a choice of behavior by those afflicted.  Just thought I'd put my  in on that point for any sufferers who might read your comment and judge your judgement as judgemental Cheers.




Oh my


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## Tisme (8 December 2016)

barney said:


> Not sure about other ducks but I've run into the odd quack here and there!
> 
> 
> Agree with your list Tech except for the first listing of people who sweat the small stuff ....... That can often be a form of anxiety/social phobia etc etc, and is often totally out of the sufferers control.  I'm sure you were more likely referring to "drama queen" type behavior which I would also agree with, but sweating the small stuff can often be a misinterpreted condition rather than a choice of behavior by those afflicted.  Just thought I'd put my  in on that point for any sufferers who might read your comment and judge your judgement as judgemental Cheers.




LOL


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> I don't have reasons to get angry.......I am cool calm and *collective..*





Gone Communist have you ?


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## Tisme (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> I don't have reasons to get angry.......I am cool calm and collective..
> 
> If you get angry over infinitesimal things then you should seek some anger management to control yourself.
> :nono:




And here's me thinking all those tirades and invective woz real. I had a picture in my mind's eye of how you behave pre breakfast after reading Rumpole:


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> And here's me thinking all those tirades and invective woz real. I had a picture in my mind's eye of how you behave pre breakfast after reading Rumpole:




LOL.


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## CanOz (8 December 2016)

tech/a said:


> Oh my





Its true tech, someone very close to me suffers from anxiety and what seem to be small things to many people, are show stoppers for them. Took me a long time to understand this, as well as how not to exacerbate the moment....


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> I don't have reasons to get angry.......I am cool calm and collective..
> 
> If you get angry over infinitesimal things then you should seek some anger management to control yourself.
> :nono:




On the other hand, if you don't get angry about idiots lighting bushfires that kill people and cause millions in damage, then I'd have to think that a necessary part of your psyche is missing.


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## Smurf1976 (8 December 2016)

Senseless destruction (of anything) tops the list for me.

I can see a reason, obviously I don't like it but I can understand a motive, why someone might steal something of value. But to simply destroy something for the sake of it, well that's just ridiculous since nobody gains. Vandalism and arson are both in that category.

Related is those who make an actual career out of wrecking things. There seem to be quite a few people around who've done just that. Everything they run ends up a complete mess and yet somehow they manage to move on somewhere else just as the brown stuff is about to hit the fan. Came across such a person once - not a pleasant experience.


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> There seem to be quite a few people around who've done just that. Everything they run ends up a complete mess and yet somehow they manage to move on somewhere else just as the brown stuff is about to hit the fan.




Usually with a nice golden handshake.


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## noco (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Gone Communist have you ?




Have you gone trolling?


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## noco (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> On the other hand, if you don't get angry about idiots lighting bushfires that kill people and cause millions in damage, then I'd have to think that a necessary part of your psyche is missing.




Will you getting angry bring them back to life?


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> Will you getting angry bring them back to life?




If we all got angry enough at the perpetrators it may discourage others from doing the same. Unfortunately they will probably be regarded as "misguided youth" and let off with a slap on the wrist.


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## noco (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> If we all got angry enough at the perpetrators it may discourage others from doing the same. Unfortunately they will probably be regarded as "misguided youth" and let off with a slap on the wrist.




That is the way the system works......Government make the laws and the judges have to follow.

So what will YOUR  anger achieve?


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> That is the way the system works......Government make the laws and the judges have to follow.
> 
> So what will YOUR  anger achieve?




Evil prospers when good people do nothing.


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## noco (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Evil prospers when good people do nothing.





So what do you propose  to do about it?...Show some more anger?


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> So what do you propose  to do about it?...Show some more anger?




Yeah. Demand they go to gaol for life. What are you going to do ?


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## noco (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Yeah. Demand they go to gaol for life. What are you going to do ?




So who are you going to place your demand with that they go to jail for life and will they take any notice of you??

There is little I can do personally...Perhaps write a letter to my useless state Labor MP....They never reply....Probably will go in the "TOO HARD BASKET". I have been waiting 4 months for a reply to a letter from our Local Labor Council.....I have given up waiting.

You could probably show some more anger if that releaves you of your frustrations with politicians.

You could  vote to change the government in the hope they will listen to you......But unfortunately the Palaszczuk Labor government is relaxing the laws on criminals in this state.

We did have a good Federal MP here in Townsville who called regular meetings for voters to vent their problems and  frustrations but I don't expect the same  from this useless Labor MP we now have.


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## Logique (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Here is a change for a general tirade. What makes you really angry ?...



When you get to a certain age.._everything!_ Rorting of the social welfare safety net is a big one atm, I don't think I need to provide examples. Another one is the creeping tide of political correctness, it's enough already.


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## Wysiwyg (8 December 2016)

greggles said:


> Injustice in all its forms. I think it's something that's hard to completely understand until it happens to you. Once it does, you never think about it the same way again.



The nomination of Putin as times magazine person of the year is a poor reflection of humanity. Someone who gives the go ahead to crush, burn, maim and kill the innocent children caught in Aleppo, Syria. How does that f... sleep at night.


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## noco (8 December 2016)

Getting ANGRY can cause all sorts of problems including increased blood pressure and heart stress......So it is wise to control one's anger to avoid even further events of violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anger

*Anger is an emotional reaction that impacts the body. A person experiencing anger will also experience physical conditions, such as increased heart rate, elevated blood pressure, and increased levels of adrenaline and noradrenaline.[4] Some view anger as an emotion which triggers part of the fight or flight brain response.[5] Anger is used as a protective mechanism to cover up fear, hurt or sadness. Anger becomes the predominant feeling behaviorally, cognitively, and physiologically when a person makes the conscious choice to take action to immediately stop the threatening behavior of another outside force.[6] The English term originally comes from the term anger of Old Norse language.[7] Anger can have many physical and mental consequences*.

*Anger can potentially mobilize psychological resources and boost determination toward correction of wrong behaviors, promotion of social justice, communication of negative sentiment and redress of grievances. It can also facilitate patience. In contrast, anger can be destructive when it does not find its appropriate outlet in expression. Anger, in its strong form, impairs one's ability to process information and to exert cognitive control over their behavior. An angry person may lose his/her objectivity, empathy, prudence or thoughtfulness and may cause harm to themselves or others.[10][16][17] There is a sharp distinction between anger and aggression (verbal or physical, direct or indirect) even though they mutually influence each other. While anger can activate aggression or increase its probability or intensity, it is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for aggression.[10]*


*Why manage anger?

Anger is not usually a good solution to problems, even if it seems helpful in the short term. Unmanaged anger creates problems - sometimes for you and often for others around you. People with poor anger management are more likely to have problems with personal relationships or work, verbal and physical fights and/or damaged property. They can also experience anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, psychosomatic illnesses and problems with alcohol or drugs. It is important to manage anger before it leads to other serious problems.

Some people used to believe that venting anger was beneficial. Researchers have now found that ‘letting it rip' actually escalates anger and aggression and does nothing to resolve the situation. On the other hand, sitting on your anger and not expressing it may lead to the pressure cooker experience that many people are familiar with. Expressing some feelings of anger in a controlled way, rather than bottling it up, gives you an opportunity to release some of your underlying feelings, so that you can start to tackle the issues that are making you angry.


Back to top


What is anger management?

Anger management is about understanding your anger and why it happens. It is about learning and practising better ways of expressing anger, and knowing how to prevent it from occurring in the first place. Specifically, anger management is about knowing the triggers and early warning signs of anger, and learning techniques to calm down and manage the situation before it gets out of control.*


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## SirRumpole (8 December 2016)

noco said:


> Getting ANGRY can cause all sorts of problems including increased blood pressure and heart stress......So it is wise to control one's anger to avoid even further events of violence.




Anger is a part of life. It provides impetus for change as long as it's channeled in the right direction. That's probably why anger is anathema to Conservatives when things happen to other people. They are comfortably off and therefore see no desire for change. But if their houses get burned down by arsonists, then they get as angry as anyone else if something affects them personally and threatens their comfortable lives.

The very idea the global warming may be occurring makes Conservatives angry because people may abuse them for driving large cars and wasting fuel, and that anger turns into rants against the messengers who bring the bad news. There is plenty of anger by Conservatives on this forum, so don't try to pretend you are a cool dude that is worried by nothing.


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## noco (8 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Anger is a part of life. It provides impetus for change as long as it's channeled in the right direction. That's probably why anger is anathema to Conservatives when things happen to other people. They are comfortably off and therefore see no desire for change. But if their houses get burned down by arsonists, then they get as angry as anyone else if something affects them personally and threatens their comfortable lives.
> 
> The very idea the global warming may be occurring makes Conservatives angry because people may abuse them for driving large cars and wasting fuel, and that anger turns into rants against the messengers who bring the bad news. There is plenty of anger by Conservatives on this forum, so don't try to pretend you are a cool dude that is worried by nothing.




I learned to control my anger many years ago.....There is no point in showing anger when one can do little with the situation that makes some people show their anger in the first place.

It is a pity you have to bring politics into this discussion.....But I guess that is you...You just cannot resist the temptation.


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## pixel (9 December 2016)

Yeah, "really angry" may indeed imply losing control and hitting out - something I try to avoid, as we all should.
Let's rephrase the question then and ask for things that *frustrate *or "*Totally p1$$ You Off*".

Under that heading, I am on Joe's wavelength: Spammers, Scammers, and Trolls rate very high on my list. Personally, I can deal with them, be aware when they hit me, and delete or ignore. But I despise the mindset that causes people to limbo under a snake's belly.
And tech/a's "sweating the small stuff" strikes a chord with me in the same context, inasmuch as it comes from pedants, know-it-alls, and attention-seekers.

With cruel people, arsonists, pedophiles etc I am not so much angry or frustrated. Sure, I hate the effects and the damage they do to our society, but I'm more frustrated by the bleeding-heart do-gooders that find excuses for their evil deeds and demand they be treated "humanely" and "with dignity". Just because someone is a member of a common gene pool doesn't make him a sacrosanct human being, to be kept alive and in a comfortable prison cell at all cost.

Oh, and I'm very frustrated by people who stand up for free speech *as long as the contents of the speech does nor clash with their own prejudice.* Ditto Governments that don't do their job, but bicker among each other and then blame everybody else for not supporting them.


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## tech/a (9 December 2016)

Spot on Pixel

Not everyone is from our Tribe!

Too many soft ccoccks 
Take a dose of concrete and toughen up.

Look after your own back yard
Your welcome to join me in mine
But don't make me angry!

Over in Perth Soon Pixel
Will catch up for a drink!


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## wayneL (9 December 2016)

Character asssination/malicious gossip and wilful ignorance ticks my box atm... and I see plenty of it in my profession.


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## Tisme (9 December 2016)

"Really angry" is such a fleeting thing:

1) I would suspect none of us like being made the fool by snide, deliberately insulting sarcasm from he lips of necessarily half intelligent toxic opportunists ..... despair and disappointment are added when others in the conversation laugh at the character assassination.

2) Being taken to task for outcome failure by the walking imbecile who caused the mess

3) Liars who enjoy the consequential destruction of people's reputation and esteem.

There's one action that really annoys me, not so much angers me ....... when you become aware you are being disparagingly talked about and when you bale up one of the gossipers for an explanation the response is something like "I'm not getting between you and xyz" ....., xyz being the other poor devil who doesn't know he has a problem with you. I have sacked a few gossipers in my time


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## pixel (9 December 2016)

tech/a said:


> Spot on Pixel
> 
> Over in Perth Soon Pixel
> Will catch up for a drink!




Looking forward to your visit.
I'm sure we can find a sunny pond where they serve a glass of water.


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## barney (9 December 2016)

tech/a said:


> Oh my




Don't sweat it Tech ..... I forgot you live in a duck pond 



Tisme said:


> LOL




Care to elaborate Tisme?



CanOz said:


> Its true tech, someone very close to me suffers from anxiety and what seem to be small things to many people, are show stoppers for them. Took me a long time to understand this, as well as how not to exacerbate the moment....




Exactly Can .... Severe Anxiety is often a form of mental illness and is a lot more widespread than some people are aware of.


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## trainspotter (9 December 2016)

People who do not return phone calls. 

The new way of doing business. I have noted that they just do not get back to you. Make the call and leave a message asking for a phone call back. No return phone call. Oh well, you do not want my business then. On to the next one. Rinse and repeat. Very bothersome !!


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## tech/a (9 December 2016)

trainspotter said:


> People who do not return phone calls.
> 
> The new way of doing business. I have noted that they just do not get back to you. Make the call and leave a message asking for a phone call back. No return phone call. Oh well, you do not want my business then. On to the next one. Rinse and repeat. Very bothersome !!




In the domestic world we get a lot of business due to this strange attitude adopted by contractors.
In fact the biggest issue at quote time for our clients is "Your going to actually turn up?"

On countless occasions we find that they have called the standard 3 people which turns into 7
and we are the only ones to even bother coming!  Worse----some actually get there talk the talk and disappear off the planet----worse again some get the project ask for money to "Pay for materials" get it--THEN disappear off the face of the earth!

*HINT*.

DONT EVER EVER pay up front for materials----pay progress claims for goods that arrive or work completed satisfactorily .


As you say even a courtesy call would be nice. We even call when on route.
But then I'm an -----*OLD----DUCK*


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## tech/a (9 December 2016)

pixel said:


> Looking forward to your visit.
> I'm sure we can find a sunny pond where they serve a glass of water.




I've found Coors--since my Alaskan sabbatical.
Water mixed with stuff.


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## Gringotts Bank (9 December 2016)

tech/a said:


> In the domestic world we get a lot of business due to this strange attitude adopted by contractors.




Makes it very easy for you.  You just do what you say and you get the job by default.  In my job, the opposite is true - the more honest I am, the less I get paid.  The unscrupulous and the ignorant get paid much more, and I think that would be true in most industries.

So that's what gets me angry - the way us humans were designed.  There are *massive *design flaws in human nature.  You only need watch the evening news to see how badly designed humans are.  If change was possible, I think we would have already seen it after so many thousands of years inhabiting the planet.  Nature went very badly wrong somewhere after the amoeba.


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## smallwolf (9 December 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> In my job, the opposite is true - the more honest I am, the less I get paid.  The unscrupulous and the ignorant get paid much more, and I think that would be true in most industries.




Is the nature of society these day  and probably related to the litigious nature of society, people don't like hearing -ves even if it is the truth.

To the OP question...

1. you talking/meeting with someone and they text other people than talk to you

2. request quote for work, and you don't get it... when you ask them what happened (phone call) they tell you they will find out and don't bother calling you back!


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## Gringotts Bank (9 December 2016)

smallwolf said:


> Is the nature of society these day  and probably related to the litigious nature of society, people don't like hearing -ves even if it is the truth.




On a more fundamental level, I don't think we can blame society or individuals for anything, because free will is completely illusory.  Nature wants survival of the species [for some unknown reason], and will stop at nothing to get what it wants.  We think we make free choices in life, but we don't.  Everything we do is in some way tied to what Nature wants, and it's programmed into us at a such a deep level that most people are unaware of it.  We just obey and tell ourselves we are the protagonists of our life's story.

If you try to squash an ant, it will run away.  You think it's making a decision?  No, it's been programmed to react that way.  Just like it's been programmed to collect food and build tunnels and so on.  We're actually no different apart from the fact that we _*think *_we're making all these decisions ourselves.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/


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## tech/a (9 December 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Makes it very easy for you.  You just do what you say and you get the job by default.  In my job, the opposite is true - the more honest I am, the less I get paid.  .




What is it your involved in.
Not by default but by doing what's expected---simples




> The unscrupulous and the ignorant get paid much more, and I think that would be true in most industries




I have found that this maybe the case in some isolated areas for small windows in time.
Over the long term you wont fool all of the people all of the time. Fool me once---shame on you
Fool me twice---Shame on ME.
When dealing on the serious side of business the wolves eat those who try pulling wool over their eyes.





> So that's what gets me angry - the way us humans were designed.  There are *massive *design flaws in human nature.  You only need watch the evening news to see how badly designed humans are.  If change was possible, I think we would have already seen it after so many thousands of years inhabiting the planet.  Nature went very badly wrong somewhere after the amoeba.




Like all things its how its built and operated. (Parents/Governments/Situation)
I think there is an opening in media for a GOOD NEWS only channel.


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2016)

> There are massive design flaws in human nature. You only need watch the evening news to see how badly designed humans are. If change was possible, I think we would have already seen it after so many thousands of years inhabiting the planet. Nature went very badly wrong somewhere after the amoeba




Now that we have discovered genetic engineering, Nature is irrelevant. Some may say we will be creating a monster, but it's pretty inevitable imo that we will be designing ourselves in the future. In some ways I think that's good if we can eliminate inherited diseases and such and can design more intelligent humans rather than some of the bogans we are now inflicted with.

I would not put it past the Chinese, North Koreans and Russians to be already creating their "master race" of warriors ready to descend on the rest of us.


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## Gringotts Bank (9 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Now that we have discovered genetic engineering, Nature is irrelevant.




Nature's never irrelevant - it's the only runner in the race.  It's humans who are largely irrelevant.  If as a species we go looking for genetic solutions to health issues it's solely because Nature intended it. I wish it was otherwise, but it's all decided.  Every human act that has ever occurred, did so because it was programmed into us.  We don't decide to have breakfast in the morning any more than we decided to evolve from chimps all those thousands of years ago.  Those two things feel very different because we evolved to tell ourselves stories about things that happen, assigning personal attribution.

The sentence "I decide to have breakfast" is just a story overlaid on reality.  Breakfast 'happens'.  It's all just 'happening', and we have virtually nothing to do with it other than writing a story of ownership and volition.


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## cynic (9 December 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Nature's never irrelevant - it's the only runner in the race.  It's humans who are largely irrelevant.  If as a species we go looking for genetic solutions to health issues it's solely because Nature intended it. I wish it was otherwise, but it's all decided.  Every human act that has ever occurred, did so because it was programmed into us.  We don't decide to have breakfast in the morning any more than we decided to evolve from chimps all those thousands of years ago.  Those two things feel very different because we evolved to tell ourselves stories about things that happen, assigning personal attribution.
> 
> The sentence "I decide to have breakfast" is just a story overlaid on reality.  Breakfast 'happens'.  It's all just 'happening', and we have virtually nothing to do with it other than writing a story of ownership and volition.




The question of human volition is certainly an interesting one. I've often wondered whether every "decision" made is predetermined by preceding events, leaving humanity powerless (despite the illusion of freedom) to deviate from a future that has already been dictated by the past.

Getting back to the topic of anger, I think most ASF members will know of the things that quickly anger me. Which leads back to the question of whether I have choice surrounding my emotional reaction (Can I choose whether or not to be angered by certain events, or is that already predetermined from the past?)


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2016)

> Nature's never irrelevant - it's the only runner in the race. It's humans who are largely irrelevant.




It depends how you define Nature doesn't it ? If you just say Nature is the way things are, then you are correct, things just happen. It's a bit hard to prove that all events are pre ordained though.

This discussion really belongs in a philosophy thread. There are people who believe in multiverses where every possible combination of all the decisions by every individual actually exist in some Universe. Whether or not we should actually care if this is correct is another matter. It can't be proved so why bother thinking about it ?


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## Gringotts Bank (9 December 2016)

I mention it because it all links in with 'what makes me angry'.  I'm just taking it back to its core.  Everything depends on something else before it (as cynic was saying).  And life will at some point cause everyone to suffer because of this never ending linkage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda

They say there's an answer, but few seem to achieve it.


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I mention it because it all links in with 'what makes me angry'.  I'm just taking it back to its core.  Everything depends on something else before it (as cynic was saying).  And life will at some point cause everyone to suffer because of this never ending linkage.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda
> 
> They say there's an answer, but few seem to achieve it.




Well maybe, but I get angry at people who light bushfires, but I've never been in a bushfire nor have I been personally affected by one. In a past life maybe ? Otherwise I don't see a "linkage" as you put it.


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## Gringotts Bank (9 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Well maybe, but I get angry at people who light bushfires, but I've never been in a bushfire nor have I been personally affected by one. In a past life maybe ? Otherwise I don't see a "linkage" as you put it.




But you have been in situations that have similar dynamics, otherwise it wouldn't trigger you.  The dynamic is: someone slyly using one small action to cause massive damage and suffering to a lot of people, and getting away with it.  Something like that.  Obviously everyone has their own set of triggers.

The linkages would be everywhere.  Why did the firebug light the fire?  Because his parents mercilessly beat him when he was a child playing with matches?  And why did they do that?  Because they were terrified of him burning the house down?  And why were they terrified of burning the house down?  Because the husband had just lost his job?  And on... and on.... and on it goes back forever through generations and maybe lifetimes.  Like a web of causation.

That's the whole idea of religion - to go beyond the potential for suffering that arises from this *dependent origination*.  Others explain it much better.  

2c.


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> But you have been in situations that have similar dynamics, otherwise it wouldn't trigger you.  The dynamic is: someone slyly using one small action to cause massive damage and suffering to a lot of people, and getting away with it.  Something like that.  Obviously everyone has their own set of triggers.
> 
> The linkages would be everywhere.  Why did the firebug light the fire?  Because his parents mercilessly beat him when he was a child playing with matches?  And why did they do that?  Because they were terrified of him burning the house down?  And why were they terrified of burning the house down?  Because the husband had just lost his job?  And on... and on.... and on it goes back forever through generations and maybe lifetimes.  Like a web of causation.
> 
> ...




OK, that's interesting. Obviously there is a lot of cause and effect in everything we do. Child abusers breed child abusers, poverty breeds poverty etc, we inherit our parents attitudes and standards. I guess that's what keeps the psychologists in business.


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## Wysiwyg (9 December 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Makes it very easy for you.  You just do what you say and you get the job by default.  In my job, the opposite is true - the more honest I am, the less I get paid.  The unscrupulous and the ignorant get paid much more, and I think that would be true in most industries.



People forever have done whatever it takes to get money/wealth. Honest toilers paying their taxes while the cunning dog steals their lunch.


----------



## luutzu (10 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> OK, that's interesting. Obviously there is a lot of cause and effect in everything we do. Child abusers breed child abusers, poverty breeds poverty etc, we inherit our parents attitudes and standards. I guess that's what keeps the psychologists in business.




People in poverty can't afford psychologists.

What does wealth breed? Just as much psychos and sociopaths, and yes, even breed as much poverty as poverty often does.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> What does wealth breed?




At least it breeds children who don't have to live on welfare.

Does it breed children who are loved and turn out to be good citizens ? That depends on the parenting skills of the parents on which we have no grounds to generalise.


----------



## noco (10 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> People in poverty can't afford psychologists.
> 
> What does wealth breed? Just as much psychos and sociopaths, and yes, even breed as much poverty as poverty often does.




Luu, I am not sure about other states but I am fairly sure there are free facilities in Queensland.

http://www.bupa.com.au/health-and-w...lp-for-mental-health-problems-who-do-you-call


----------



## qldfrog (10 December 2016)

tech/a said:


> I have found that this maybe the case in some isolated areas for small windows in time.
> Over the long term you wont fool all of the people all of the time. Fool me once---shame on you
> Fool me twice---Shame on ME.



Sadly not valid in big corporation, the ones you do own shares, the big miners bankers etc;
the aim is not to do the job for some but go up the ladder and doing your job is NOT the way to go up in these systems.believe men 20y plus experience there
But as a small business owner, your side is true...as long as you do not deal with these big corporations, in which case, sadly we are back to point 1.
Sad but have to live with it...


----------



## SirRumpole (15 December 2016)

Shop assistants serving me while carrying on a conversation with someone else.

Grrrrr,,,,


----------



## qldfrog (15 December 2016)

And my number 1 grief, the slow descent of the west into an orwellian society: PC, believe what you are told;
can you imagine: today the eiffel tower was not light up because the nice islamist fanatics (our friends or the friend of our SA friends) have lost the battle of Aleppo; people are blown up every second day by islamists but the enemy is the bad russian bear (and not the nice friendly chinese communist party BTW) and day after day, picture after picture, propaganda washes the brains or whatever was left, be it here, in the US or Europe, 1984 is today,  we suppress cash, liberty , are monitored in every movement, propaganda everywhere and we dare to be called democraties..
For those old enough to remember, the old soviet block was not that much worse in term of liberties, and the economies were abysmal, but people were "attending jobs" and definitively not stressing about work!!!
Where is mankind going when I end up thinking that Trump represent some hope and when we can actually seriously make these statements..
Seriously...And so quick, less than 30y, helped by technologies and our democratic values are gone.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 December 2016)

qldfrog said:


> And my number 1 grief, the slow descent of the west into an orwellian society




I'd cut that to simply "the slow descent of the west".

In addition to your comments I'm not at all happy that we've come to the point of it being politically advantageous to kick those who are down. That would have been decidedly un-Australian not too long ago but seems acceptable these days.

And I'm also not at all impressed that we've come to the point where governments are telling the people that they'd just better get used to it with things like unaffordable housing, unreliable utilities and so on. That was unthinkable not too long ago but now it's reality.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'd cut that to simply "the slow descent of the west".
> 
> In addition to your comments I'm not at all happy that we've come to the point of it being politically advantageous to kick those who are down. That would have been decidedly un-Australian not too long ago but seems acceptable these days.
> 
> And I'm also not at all impressed that we've come to the point where governments are telling the people that they'd just better get used to it with things like unaffordable housing, unreliable utilities and so on. That was unthinkable not too long ago but now it's reality.




Both these complaints reflect the rise of the loony Right, whose rules are 

a. privatise everything and then deny all responsibility when things go wrong with privatised utilities like power stations.

b. blame "The "Left" and "bleeding hearts" when unemployment gets high for being too soft on people who can't get a job.

c. blame "The Left" for everything else.

d. try and reduce the deficit (hah great job they have done) by hitting people who can least afford it, while leaving millionaires who have 50 negatively geared properties safe in their harbour side mansions.

And so on.


----------



## sptrawler (16 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Both these complaints reflect the rise of the loony Right, whose rules are
> 
> a. privatise everything and then deny all responsibility when things go wrong with privatised utilities like power stations.




I think smurph knows, the same as I do, that the sensible option was lost when Labor introduced a carbon tax and made coal fired power stations poison.
Their fate was sealed and in a lot of ways, so was Australia's manufacturing, now we compete on a one for one basis with Thailand, India, China etc. The only real advantage we had was cheap power, and an abundance of it.



SirRumpole said:


> b. blame "The "Left" and "bleeding hearts" when unemployment gets high for being too soft on people who can't get a job.




It was only yesterday, you were agreeing with Abbott, that people shouldn't get unemployment, when jobs are available in their area.


Maybe everyone needs to take a breath and realise, the gravy train is derailing, no matter who is in Government.


----------



## noco (16 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> I think smurph knows, the same as I do, that the sensible option was lost when Labor introduced a carbon tax and made coal fired power stations poison.
> Their fate was sealed and in a lot of ways, so was Australia's manufacturing, now we compete on a one for one basis with Thailand, India, China etc. The only real advantage we had was cheap power, and an abundance of it.
> 
> 
> ...




Unfortunately Rumpy has a history of short memories.


----------



## sptrawler (16 December 2016)

noco said:


> Unfortunately Rumpy has a history of short memories.




Noco, I wasn't being critical of Rumpole, just highlighting that the issues aren't Party specific.

The LNP aren't leading from the front and Labor are sniping from the rear, no one is addressing the issues, which IMO will lead to a real drop in living standards.

Either the LNP needs to make some really hard political decissions, or Labor needs to disenfranchise themselves from the unions, if neither happens Hanson will take over.


----------



## sptrawler (16 December 2016)

What makes me really angry is both major parties, trying to meet in the middle ground, so both stand for nothing different.

We have Shorten trying to be like Turnbull and Turnbull trying to be like Shorten.

Insipid, sterile, gutless politics.

It is about time, someone stood up and said " We are in the $hit, get over it, here is what we are going to do".
If it works, they're brilliant, if it fails, they die trying,
At the moment Australia is dying by a thousand cuts.IMO


----------



## qldfrog (16 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> At the moment Australia is dying by a thousand cuts.IMO



onvious for anyone with a bit of a clue, and not linked to parrot whatever party they are enamoured with, trouble is however obvious it is nothing change with the power in place.And I thought Turnbull was our last hope..(and I still believe he was but looking at the LNP and its supporters.inc here fair chance) now we will have to wait for the crash and damages to hope for a phoenix...
But what raises from the ashes might not be nice, even if the australian nature makes it usually indolent/toothless, Note that might change with the level of migration we have...


----------



## SirRumpole (16 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> Either the LNP needs to make some really hard political decissions, or Labor needs to disenfranchise themselves from the unions, if neither happens Hanson will take over.




Yes, that's a good point. I would like to see Labor distance itself from the unions and become a broad based Party. I think it was heading that way under Rudd who had little time for the unions, but Gillard brought Labor back under the unions control unfortunately.

I believe you still need to be a union member in order to be a member of the Labor party, and that disenfranchises a wide range of people. No wonder Labor has a miniscule membership.

None of the major Parties will give up their traditional income streams unless public political funding laws are introduced and that's not likely to happen soon.


----------



## Tisme (16 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> , gutless politics.




agree wholeheartedly.

Do you think we going through a devolutionary spell, back to the  pre Whitlam era when everyone held you back in the mob with cautionary tales and cliches, where big news was the wool industry and prohibition or moderation on everything was the norm? Is that where the ever stifling PC counterbalances our progressive/nationalistic spurt in the 80's and 90's back too?


----------



## SirRumpole (16 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> It was only yesterday, you were agreeing with Abbott, that people shouldn't get unemployment, when jobs are available in their area.




That's not quite what I said. 

I basically said that it's not unreasonable to expect people to take employment that is offered to them and not to quit that employment to go back on welfare.


Some Conservatives  go too far and blame the unemployed for not looking for a job when there just aren't any. We saw that in Malcolm Fraser's time and recently with Abbott.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Some Conservatives  go too far and blame the unemployed for not looking for a job when there just aren't any.




I don't recall the figures but I saw some statistics recently and in short, if every unemployed person applied for every job available then most would still be out of work. And that's assuming employers actually gave those jobs only to people who are presently unemployed whereas in practice many will go to someone presently working elsewhere.

It's one of those things which doesn't scale. One unemployed person can get themselves a job and that's a good thing certainly. But there's not enough jobs for them to all do it. If there were then we'd have 714,000 job vacancies right now.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> I don't recall the figures but I saw some statistics recently and in short, if every unemployed person applied for every job available then most would still be out of work. And that's assuming employers actually gave those jobs only to people who are presently unemployed whereas in practice many will go to someone presently working elsewhere.
> 
> It's one of those things which doesn't scale. One unemployed person can get themselves a job and that's a good thing certainly. But there's not enough jobs for them to all do it. If there were then we'd have 714,000 job vacancies right now.




It also gets murky when you consider part time employment which is on the rise. Underemployment is at its highest rate ever. 

Let's also be aware that the official unemployment rate is a con: people only have to do one hour of work a week to be considered employed.


----------



## noco (17 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> It also gets murky when you consider part time employment which is on the rise. *Underemployment is at its highest rate ever. *Let's also be aware that the official unemployment rate is a con: people only have to do one hour of work a week to be considered employed.




It was 11.10% under Paul Keating an interest rates reached 17%.

Now how about that?

Stick those dole bludgers in the Army if they refuse to work.



http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/unemployment-rate


----------



## James Robinson (18 December 2016)

When my landlord come and say please always keep everything neat and clean in my house (once in a week). Everything is perfect in my home. I guess he is suffering Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder. Truly annoying.


----------



## Tisme (18 December 2016)

noco said:


> It was 11.10% under Paul Keating an interest rates reached 17%.
> 
> Now how about that?
> 
> ...





Keating:

30 Jul 1993	4.75
23 Mar 1993	5.25
8 Jul 1992	        5.75
6 May 1992	6.50
8 Jan 1992         7.50
6 Nov 1991	8.50
3 Sep 1991	9.50
16 May 1991	10.50
4 Apr 1991	11.50
18 Dec 1990	12.00
15 Oct 1990	13.00
2 Aug 1990	14.00
4 Apr 1990	15.00 to 15.50
15 Feb 1990	16.50 to 17.00
23 Jan 1990	17.00 to 17.50

*Howard:*

*Apr 1982            21.4%*


----------



## Tisme (18 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> It also gets murky when you consider part time employment which is on the rise. Underemployment is at its highest rate ever.
> 
> Let's also be aware that the official unemployment rate is a con: people only have to do one hour of work a week to be considered employed.




We are probably in recession already. The indices say so : conservative voters blaming in opposition socialist parties for their ills, budget in deficit, govt outlays up, interest rates going to rise because the govt has to borrow to pay for the outlays, exchange rates set to fall next year and the money lenders are depreciating the credit rating to profit from the economic profligacy of Abbott and Turnbull.


----------



## noco (18 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> Keating:
> 
> 30 Jul 1993	4.75
> 23 Mar 1993	5.25
> ...




Tisme, I don't know where YOU got your figures from but I think have made a Booboo with your 21.4%.

http://www.indexmundi.com/australia/unemployment_rate.html

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/explore/cabinet/by-year/economy-tax-financial.aspx

https://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/bp/1994-95/94bp09.pdf

Will be this be enough to convince you?


----------



## Tisme (18 December 2016)

noco said:


> Tisme, I don't know where YOU got your figures from but I think have made a Booboo with your 21.4%.
> 
> http://www.indexmundi.com/australia/unemployment_rate.html
> 
> ...




Cash rate my son, cash rates. You know I always get my figures from the official "pertinent" publications.

*Howard:

Apr 1982 21.4%
*
and wrecked the economy for years after, until Hawke and Keating got it under control. It's not politics, it's fact, something you might like to try one day my TRolly friend.


----------



## barney (18 December 2016)

James Robinson said:


> When my landlord come and say please always keep everything neat and clean in my house (once in a week). Everything is perfect in my home. I guess he is suffering Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder. Truly annoying.




Is your Landlord giving you 24 hours written notice to visit that often??  Are you agreeing to his/her visits?? .. Otherwise ...


----------



## noco (18 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> Cash rate my son, cash rates. You know I always get my figures from the official "pertinent" publications.
> 
> *Howard:
> 
> ...




Um I think the discussion revolved around unemployment and you came up with this fictitious figure  of 21.4% without a word about cash rates.....Gotcha again.

The cash rate in 1982 varied from 12.5 % to 13.5 %

Where does the 21.4 % fit in?....Are you getting mixed up with the credit card interest?


http://economics.hia.com.au/media/Standard Variable Mortgage Interest Rates.pdf


----------



## Smurf1976 (18 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> We are probably in recession already.




It could be fairly said that we're half way there at least. One quarter of negative growth and if the next quarter is the same then we're officially in recession. Only time will tell with that one.

If it turns out that we are in recession then one impact of significance is likely to be political. No recession in roughly 25 years and no recession under a Liberal government since the early 1980's. That's a long time and leads to a situation where a large proportion of voters have no personal experience of Australia being in recession, and an even larger proportion have no experience of it having happened under a Liberal government.

Trying to be politically neutral as far as possible here, but I think the Coalition is going to have a rather big marketing problem if we do end up in recession. Their pitch to voters is primarily about being "good economic mangers" (in their own words) and that's going to be a pretty much worthless claim if we do end up in recession especially given the absence of an obvious external shock (we're not at war, no GFC at the moment, the price of oil didn't just triple overnight, etc).

Recessions don't always lead to a change of government, Labor was re-elected following the last recession and lost office some years after the economy had started growing again, but in this case a recession would seem to discredit the very reason the Coalition appeals to voters - the perception of being good when it comes to economics.

Smurf's opinion - if we escape a recession this time then it'll still happen sometime this decade. There's so many imbalances in the economy and emerging problems that I can't see how anyone, of any political persuasion, could keep the balls in the air too much longer. Same outcome whether Coalition or Labor, all that might differ is how they respond once it happens.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> It could be fairly said that we're half way there at least. One quarter of negative growth and if the next quarter is the same then we're officially in recession. Only time will tell with that one.




Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen, but if it does then the next question is how to deal with it.

Business tax cuts will just take too long to filter down into the economy, the best way I think is to cut lower and middle income taxes to stimulate consumer spending. The money for this has to be found, and I think the best way to recoup it is to put an export tax on our natural gas and minerals exports.  That may cut the mining / gas companies profits, but as most of them don't pay much tax anyway they can afford it, and local consumers and industries will benefit.

What a lot of governments tend to do in a recession is cut government spending which only makes the problem worse. I think Labor is aware of the pitfalls of doing this, but I'm not so sure about the Conservatives.


----------



## Tisme (19 December 2016)

I make Noco very very angry


----------



## noco (19 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> I make Noco very very angry




Tisme, I think you have got it around the wrong way as I stated in post #9

*I don't have reasons to get angry.......I am cool calm and collective..

If you get angry over infinitesimal things then you should seek some anger management to control yourself.*

Getting angry like you do at times only makes your situation worse....You then revert to trolling, humiliation and character assassination in an attempt to silence your opponent......When you make hideous statements I generally check them out and then contribute the facts and that is when you get angry after you have been exposed.

Showing one's anger does not solve anything.

Getting angry over minor things can cause all sorts of health problems including high blood pressure and heart problems not forgetting of course one's brain...The brain can get very twisted when you get angry and can lead to irrational behavior.


----------



## Tisme (19 December 2016)

noco said:


> Tisme, I think you have got it around the wrong way as I stated in post #9
> 
> *I don't have reasons to get angry.......I am cool calm and collective..
> 
> ...




Oh good onya, using the health card so it's my fault if you keel over from rage.


----------



## luutzu (19 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> Oh good onya, using the health card so it's my fault if you keel over from rage.




I thought Angry Old Men was a pretty funny movie. 

Got enough material here to make that a trilogy.


----------



## sptrawler (19 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> I thought Angry Old Men was a pretty funny movie.
> 
> Got enough material here to make that a trilogy.




Absolutely, the posts on here, could come from the common room in a 'C' class hospital, rusks all round.


----------



## luutzu (20 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely, the posts on here, could come from the common room in a 'C' class hospital, rusks all round.




What's "rusks all round" Homer? Australiana or phrases before my time? 

I shouldn't talk though... got a few grey beard hair growing. Have always been prematurely grey but the beard? Dam I'm getting old.

And as old men and anger goes... here's the latest report from Reuter's about US lead poisoning epidemic.

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-lead-testing/#interactive-lead

There are over 3,000 "sites" in the US with higher lead poisoning than the recent Flint Michigan fiasco. And nobody seem to give a damn or a dime.

Apparently they can afford all sort of weapons and military adventures. But feeding their kids or bringing their own people clean drinking water - how can they afford that.


----------



## Tisme (20 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> I thought Angry Old Men was a pretty funny movie.
> 
> Got enough material here to make that a trilogy.




I resemble that remark


----------



## Tisme (20 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely, the posts on here, could come from the common room in a 'C' class hospital, rusks all round.




[countercheapshot] What C class hospitals do you lurk in, eaves dropping, to make knowing statements like that?[\countercheapshot]


----------



## SirRumpole (20 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> [countercheapshot] What C class hospitals do you lurk in, eaves dropping, to make knowing statements like that?[\countercheapshot]




All my remarks are meticulously researched, seriously and deeply considered and immaculately expressed.


----------



## Tisme (20 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> All my remarks are meticulously researched, seriously and deeply considered and immaculately expressed.




Being an encyclopedia personified, I have no need for such trifles.


----------



## qldfrog (20 December 2016)

*"Being an encyclopedia personified, I have no need for such trifles"*
Noco??
I know, a bit cheap..
I am sure Noco will take it with the intended humour
Have all a great Christmas whether you believe our last hope is coming from either right, left or above!!


----------



## SirRumpole (20 December 2016)

qldfrog said:


> *"Being an encyclopedia personified, I have no need for such trifles"*
> Noco??
> I know, a bit cheap..
> I am sure Noco will take it with the intended humour
> Have all a great Christmas whether you believe our last hope is coming from either right, left or above!!




Thanks Froggy, same to you.

:chimney


----------



## noco (20 December 2016)

qldfrog said:


> *"Being an encyclopedia personified, I have no need for such trifles"*
> Noco??
> I know, a bit cheap..
> I am sure Noco will take it with the intended humour
> Have all a great Christmas whether you believe our last hope is coming from either right, left or above!!




Hope all you lefties have very a Merry Muslim Xmas and a happy Marxist New Year.

:holysheep:


----------



## Tisme (21 December 2016)

noco said:


> Hope all you lefties have very a Merry Muslim Xmas and a happy Marxist New Year.
> 
> :holysheep:




I think there's something in this for all of us:


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

noco said:


> Hope all you lefties have very a Merry Muslim Xmas and a happy Marxist New Year.
> 
> :holysheep:




And a Hanson Christmas and Trump New Year to you.


:sword:


----------



## noco (21 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> I think there's something in this for all of us:





That guy, like a lot on the left are romancing with themselves.

It will never happen.

While you have one religion or some parasite ideology trying to force their beliefs on us when it is not what we want nor is it our way of life, there will always be conflict.

A large percentage of the Australian population don't want Socialism, fanatical religions or Marxism in our lives so gives us our freedom of speech, stop this lunatic AGM crap. freeze renewable energy, cease Muslim immigration and deport those who defy our laws and way of life.


----------



## Tisme (21 December 2016)

noco said:


> That guy, like a lot on the left are romancing with themselves.
> 
> It will never happen.
> 
> ...




Well of course your ideas are fairly moderate compared to mine, but then again I'm a true right winger who understands the basic components of capitalism and the working class are an essential part of that. Wannabe capitalists wrongly  think the Liberal Party is somehow aligned with free market capitalism and freedom of expression .


----------



## noco (21 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> Well of course your ideas are fairly moderate compared to mine, but then again I'm a true right winger who understands the basic components of capitalism and the working class are an essential part of that. Wannabe capitalists wrongly  think the Liberal Party is somehow aligned with free market capitalism and freedom of expression .




The Liberal Party of today is not the conservative Liberal Party of yesterday.......Turnbull is leaning too far to the left and Shorten has already gone too far to the left.

But I am not angry about it......I just sit back and observe what is going on trust common sense will prevail and that a strong leader will emerge but it is up to the people of this nation.......I can foresee a revolt on the horizon and I hope I live long enough to see it happen.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

noco said:


> The Liberal Party of today is not the conservative Liberal Party of yesterday.......Turnbull is leaning too far to the left and Shorten has already gone too far to the left.
> 
> But I am not angry about it......I just sit back and observe what is going on trust common sense will prevail and that a strong leader will emerge but it is up to the people of this nation.......I can foresee a revolt on the horizon and I hope I live long enough to see it happen.




Yavul Mein Fuhrer !

Thank God our Westminster system makes a Trump like situation fairly unlikely. A leader is only a leader by consensus of his peers and if (s)he goes off their rocker they can be thrown out a la Abbott. 

So I'm afraid you will have to move to the USA or North Korea if you want to see a strong leader in action, coz I doubt if it will happen here.


----------



## Smurf1976 (21 December 2016)

noco said:


> The Liberal Party of today is not the conservative Liberal Party of yesterday.......Turnbull is leaning too far to the left and Shorten has already gone too far to the left.




At the present time I think it's pretty hard for the average person to work out what either of the two major parties really stands for. We can observe actions but what's the real objective?

If the Liberals represent business and Labor represents workers then at least that's a logical opposing point of view from which to debate the issues and seek the support of voters. At the moment it all seems to be a tangled mess without any real direction, at least not one that's easily comprehended by the masses and that goes for all significant political parties.


----------



## noco (21 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Yavul Mein Fuhrer !
> 
> Thank God our Westminster system makes a Trump like situation fairly unlikely. A leader is only a leader by consensus of his peers and if (s)he goes off their rocker they can be thrown out a la Abbott.
> 
> So I'm afraid you will have to move to the USA or North Korea if you want to see a strong leader in action, coz I doubt if it will happen here.




And how my dear friend can you compare North Korea with the USA?

The lunatic leader of North Korea does not hesitate to assassinate members of his own family for speaking out of turn.

Does that happen in the USA?

Well,  if you lefties ever get your way with a Australia becoming  Republic you may well see a socialist dictator arise so, Rumpy just hope and pray that our West minster system remains in place for your peace of mind..


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> At the present time I think it's pretty hard for the average person to work out what either of the two major parties really stands for. We can observe actions but what's the real objective?
> 
> If the Liberals represent business and Labor represents workers then at least that's a logical opposing point of view from which to debate the issues and seek the support of voters. At the moment it all seems to be a tangled mess without any real direction, at least not one that's easily comprehended by the masses and that goes for all significant political parties.




The Libs will never shake off their financial dependence on business but Labor should have the guts to distance themselves from the unions and become a broad based Party. Beazley tried to do it, Rudd tried to do it, but Gillard/Shorten undid their good work.

Shorten is a union sucker. What's needed is a Bowen or some other without a significant union background to gain government, pass political funding laws limiting donations from organisations and have publicly funded politicians.

Of course there will be an outcry from some ("I don't want my taxes going to xyz Party...") but that is the price we pay for belief that politicians are working for us, not Chevron or the CFMEU.


----------



## Smurf1976 (21 December 2016)

noco said:


> The Liberal Party of today is not the conservative Liberal Party of yesterday.......Turnbull is leaning too far to the left and Shorten has already gone too far to the left.




At the present time I think it's pretty hard for the average person to work out what either of the two major parties really stands for. We can observe actions but what's the real objective?

If the Liberals represent business and Labor represents workers then at least that's a logical opposing point of view from which to debate the issues and seek the support of voters. At the moment it all seems to be a tangled mess without any real direction, at least not one that's easily comprehended by the masses and that goes for all significant political parties.

As for revolts etc, all I can say there is that regardless of who wins the next election, they'll win only because voters thought the other side was worse. Neither of the two major parties seems able to really inspire the masses these days. 

We've slid a long way from the days of Keating versus Hewson promoting widespread public debate as to how taxation ought to work. Regardless of views on that issue or Labor versus Liberal generally, both had a message and at least got the mainstream population reasonably interested in and thinking about a subject most wouldn't normally think about at all. We've slipped a long way since those days.


----------



## noco (21 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> At the present time I think it's pretty hard for the average person to work out what either of the two major parties really stands for. We can observe actions but what's the real objective?
> 
> If the Liberals represent business and Labor represents workers then at least that's a logical opposing point of view from which to debate the issues and seek the support of voters. At the moment it all seems to be a tangled mess without any real direction, at least not one that's easily comprehended by the masses and that goes for all significant political parties.
> 
> ...




Smurf I don't believe the modern Labor Party has there heart in representing the workers when you consider what they did to the workers of Chiquita, Clean Event, Coles and KFC and maybe others whom we have not heard about....Labor is only interested in filling their coffers with bribe money extracted form business.

Whist I am no fan of Malcolmn Turnbull, the Liberal Party in attempting to assist small business in hard times, it also has the interest of workers in obtaining employment. 

Can you say with hand on heart that the Andrews government in Victoria has the interest of workers with their crazy policy on renewable energy and how many workers will lose their jobs as a result....Industry needs cheap and reliable energy to stay in business and Andrews is hell bent on destroying industry like Alcao who employ some 500 workers.....


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## CanOz (21 December 2016)

I finally found a couple of things that make me really angry:

1.) In woolies today for some stuff, saw an offer for a two pack of paper towels for $2. I buy them. Get them home and they charged me $5.25

2.) Been trying to roll over my super to my SMSF, Mercer send an email to me asking me to indicate how much i want to transfer, i'm sure i already indicated that....then i have to mail the letter back, i can't scan it and email it. So they proceeed to send me another email ater they get that one back, asking me to provide MORE ID, i already provided two peices more than they specified.....it seems to me that when you want you money back from brokers or fund managers, thier mandate is HANG ON TO HIS MONEY AS LONG AS YOU CAN!!


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## ThingyMajiggy (21 December 2016)

People who are slow and/or incompetent drivers.

Actually, just people in general. So much stupidity. I'm constantly saying WTF in my head, all day every day at different people.


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## sptrawler (21 December 2016)

CanOz said:


> I finally found a couple of things that make me really angry:
> 
> 1.) In woolies today for some stuff, saw an offer for a two pack of paper towels for $2. I buy them. Get them home and they charged me $5.25




My missus, checks the docket, as soon as she moves from the checkout, at all shops. It is amazing how many make mistakes.
I don't check and get #itch slapped for not checking, don't look to me for sympathy.


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## fiftyeight (22 December 2016)

The $6m Nurofen fine makes me angry.

Nurofen are fined for some less than ideal packaging, but it basically did as advertised. What really p!sses me off is most large shopping centres I walk though have a shop dedicated to this Bioflow bullsh!t

How are there this many stores selling magnets


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## Smurf1976 (22 December 2016)

noco said:


> Smurf I don't believe the modern Labor Party has there heart in representing the workers




I was being hypothetical there. Probably should have explained it a bit differently. 

My point is that if Labor did indeed represent the workers and the Liberal party represents business then that's a fairly reasonable and logical opposing viewpoint from which to debate whatever the issues of the day happen to be with the two main sides of our economy, capital and labour, both having their representatives.

In practice though I agree that Labor has moved a long way away from their original objective and I'd argue that the Liberals have done something broadly similar. No longer does Labor really represent the average worker. I'd argue that the Liberals aren't really doing much for most businesses either, a few big ones yes but not a lot for the rest.

I think both major parties have lost focus in terms of what their actual objectives are. They get bogged down in detail but seem to not have any overall plan for what they want to achieve.

A year or so ago the Tas state government (Liberal) decided that they needed to cut numbers in the public service. OK so far, they need to balance the budget so I'm not opposed to cuts in the PS in principle if that's the sensible thing to do in order to reduce costs. Trouble is they gave direction to department heads to the effect that cost was no objective and that the cuts must be achieved regardless of the cost of doing so. So we've ended up with things like getting rid of a worker earning $X and spending far more than that, each and every year into the future, in order to do so. Spend $1 to save 50c etc. That comes about because they're replaced those workers with highly paid consultants, in a few cases doing FIFO from Melbourne. OK, we're all the one country and I've nothing against anyone in Victoria seeking work in another state but spending more money in order to put local people out of work in the state you're supposed to be representing isn't my idea of good government. If it was saving money then maybe OK, but not when it's costing more.

Whilst it's a Liberal government, I'd be equally critical if it were Labor or anyone else doing the same thing as it's simply a waste of my taxes to be pursuing an ideology of cutting PS numbers for the sake of it even if doing so costs more than it saves. Meanwhile they've given remaining public servants a pay rise. Go figure. No prizes for guessing that if you dig into the budget papers there's still a huge deficit which has been shuffled into the future rather than being fixed. 

That sort of thing makes me seriously angry with the standard of politicians we've got these days and I'd be saying the exact same thing no matter which party was in power if they made decisions like that. 

For the record, the previous government down here (Labor-Green) wasn't much good with money either. "Took some hay out of the barn" in their words - trouble is they took the whole damn lot and then some. 

Looking back at state politics over the past 20 or so years, we've really only had one premier (Jim Bacon 1998 - 2004) who seemed to be much good when it came to managing money. Good enough that even the business lobby groups were publicly backing Labor in that era, an interesting situation in itself having business on side given that Jim was a former union man. 

I don't really care which side of politics is in government, I just want them to make decisions rationally based on facts rather than pursuing ideology. Nationally and in most (all?) states we've thrown away massive opportunities over the years due to game playing and short termism by all sides of politics and that makes me more angry than just about anything else. 

If we'd taken even half those opportunities then at a country we wouldn't now be faced with things like inadequate funding for hospitals, declining infrastructure and so on. We've thrown away a fortune and are now crying poor as a result. Not good.


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## Smurf1976 (22 December 2016)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> So much stupidity. I'm constantly saying WTF in my head, all day every day at different people.




It has taken me a rather long time, really only coming to grips with it now, to accept that there's a large number of people (the majority?) who simply can't or won't think ahead. Do A and B now and that will result in C. No rocket science there but they go ahead and do A + B and then wonder how to deal with the crisis when C, the inevitable and entirely foreseeable result, occurs because of their previous decisions.

That sort of non-thinking seems to be so common these days that anyone who does join the dots and realises that "C" will indeed occur finds difficulty getting their point accepted. That's until the inevitable happens and then it's all "nobody could have known...." and so on despite being obvious right from the start what would happen if only people were willing to think.

Chance and probability are concepts that few understand it seems. Do A + B and there's a 70% chance that C will be the ultimate result. If C is bad and has no easy fix then logically you wouldn't do A + B in the first place and would find some alternative that didn't have a 70% chance of ending in disaster. Not many are able to think like that it seems.


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## SirRumpole (22 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> It has taken me a rather long time, really only coming to grips with it now, to accept that there's a large number of people (the majority?) who simply can't or won't think ahead. Do A and B now and that will result in C. No rocket science there but they go ahead and do A + B and then wonder how to deal with the crisis when C, the inevitable and entirely foreseeable result, occurs because of their previous decisions.
> 
> That sort of non-thinking seems to be so common these days that anyone who does join the dots and realises that "C" will indeed occur finds difficulty getting their point accepted. That's until the inevitable happens and then it's all "nobody could have known...." and so on despite being obvious right from the start what would happen if only people were willing to think.
> 
> Chance and probability are concepts that few understand it seems. Do A + B and there's a 70% chance that C will be the ultimate result. If C is bad and has no easy fix then logically you wouldn't do A + B in the first place and would find some alternative that didn't have a 70% chance of ending in disaster. Not many are able to think like that it seems.




Could I reduce that to a few words ?

THERE ARE TOO MANY BOGANS IN THIS COUNTRY !!!


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## qldfrog (22 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Could I reduce that to a few words ?
> 
> THERE ARE TOO MANY BOGANS IN THIS COUNTRY !!!



and bogan politicians as athe result of mandatory voting 
the curse of this country


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## SirRumpole (22 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> At the present time I think it's pretty hard for the average person to work out what either of the two major parties really stands for. We can observe actions but what's the real objective?




Frankly I don't think most people vote with their heads, they vote with their hip pockets or with their prejudices.

A bit of critical analysis would soon tell people that Pauline Hanson offers nothing but bigotry and looney candidates but she now has four seats in the Senate from protest votes. I wonder if the USA actually wanted Trump to be president or did they just want to register their dissatisfaction with the status quo.

That's the problem with protest votes you might get what you don't really want.


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## wayneL (22 December 2016)

What is sticking in my craw at the moment is all the leftist crap about popular votes and the electoral college in the US election. It shouldn't really concern us here, but as it keeps getting shoved in my face:

It would behoove these whingers to understand that the US is a Federation, like Australia, a conglomeration of independent </cough> states. They should also read the constitution, which details the system and makes clear the reasoning behind it.

Then they could analyse the source of this majority and the political/strategic reasons it happened.

Then they could do us all a favour and STFU and realise they F###ing lost.


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## noco (23 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> The Libs will never shake off their financial dependence on business but Labor should have the guts to distance themselves from the unions and become a broad based Party. Beazley tried to do it, Rudd tried to do it, but Gillard/Shorten undid their good work.
> 
> Shorten is a union sucker. What's needed is a Bowen or some other without a significant union background to gain government, pass political funding laws limiting donations from organisations and have publicly funded politicians.
> 
> Of course there will be an outcry from some ("I don't want my taxes going to xyz Party...") but that is the price we pay for belief that politicians are working for us, not Chevron or the CFMEU.


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## noco (23 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> The Libs will never shake off their financial dependence on business but Labor should have the guts to distance themselves from the unions and become a broad based Party. Beazley tried to do it, Rudd tried to do it, but Gillard/Shorten undid their good work.
> 
> Shorten is a union sucker. What's needed is a Bowen or some other without a significant union background to gain government, pass political funding laws limiting donations from organisations and have publicly funded politicians.
> 
> Of course there will be an outcry from some ("I don't want my taxes going to xyz Party...") but that is the price we pay for belief that politicians are working for us, not Chevron or the CFMEU.




Chris Bowen is a Fabian and the Fabian Society is communism.


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## noco (23 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Could I reduce that to a few words ?
> 
> THERE ARE TOO MANY BOGANS IN THIS COUNTRY !!!





http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...t/news-story/5905adfc297a6bd7a3357fd566da037e


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## explod (24 December 2016)

Yes the Bogan's are mostly in the Parliament,  love left and right. 

They are going to waste 50 billion on submarines which in war are obsolete.  Robotic Drones are the technology today. 

And the fibre network,  notice that useless ALP member that pushed it got out,  is obsolete now,  our new4g phones can do all we want. 

This world's people and particularly the polititian's no longer  think.   But that is because they got top marks for rithmatic and spellin but learnt nothing about sociology.   Music and art starts this off but can only really discuss this with an open thinker using brains.


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## Smurf1976 (24 December 2016)

explod said:


> And the fibre network,  notice that useless ALP member that pushed it got out,  is obsolete now,  our new4g phones can do all we want.




I don't agree that fibre is obsolete but I'm seriously considering not connecting.

4G mobile already has enough data for everything I'll use except video streaming. And I'm not going to pay somewhere around $1K a year (NBN + a service such as Netflix) just to watch movies. Cheaper to go to the cinema and see them on a bigger screen. 

Others will differ though, it really depends on personal usage volumes.


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## Wysiwyg (24 December 2016)

Smurf1976 said:


> 4G mobile already has enough data for everything I'll use



Anyone have  home mobile internet connection issues during severe weather events?


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## SirRumpole (11 January 2017)

Web sites that play video or audio ads automatically without prompting first.


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## Tisme (11 January 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> I don't agree that fibre is obsolete but I'm seriously considering not connecting.
> 
> 4G mobile already has enough data for everything I'll use except video streaming. And I'm not going to pay somewhere around $1K a year (NBN + a service such as Netflix) just to watch movies. Cheaper to go to the cinema and see them on a bigger screen.
> 
> Others will differ though, it really depends on personal usage volumes.





Of course it's not obsolete, but if 4G latency is not a factor then why not. If the new 5G provides what is promised, it is going to need extensive backhaul fibre connecting the mobile sites, which then poses the question of if the fibre is there for the local towers why not use it, rather than pay extra for mobile broadband....hard connects are always better than wireless. We are fortunate that the NBN was rolled out a few years ago, because we wouldn't be getting 5g otherwise.


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## Bill M (11 January 2017)

Bad Drivers:

Idiots at stop lights in the right lane that don't turn on the right blinker whilst at the stop line. Then when there is a mile of traffic behind them the penny drops and they turn on the blinker blocking everybody in that lane.

On the motorway/freeway in the country and someone pulls out of a property into 110 KPH traffic causing them to slam on the brakes, it just doesn't register to these fools the types of accidents they can cause. Very inconsiderate.

Then there's those that drive at 80 KPH in 100 KPH zone and when you get an overtaking lane and pull out to take over them they speed up. Older people do this a lot, I wonder why?

Heavy Vehicle drivers who tailgate you when you are sitting on the maximum speed limit anyway, like hey buddy I'm not going to speed for you.

And then there's roundabouts, the great majority of Aussies haven't got a clue on how to use them properly, ie: indicating your intention on the way in *and out!*


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## SirRumpole (11 January 2017)

Bill M said:


> Bad Drivers:
> 
> Idiots at stop lights in the right lane that don't turn on the right blinker whilst at the stop line. Then when there is a mile of traffic behind them the penny drops and they turn on the blinker blocking everybody in that lane.
> 
> ...





Driving to Melbourne on the Hume. The limit is 110 kph , there are speed cameras everywhere and if someone is doing 108 people overtake but are too afraid to exceed the speed limit so they speed too long in the right lane, blocking it for others. People should be allowed to overtake on a dual carriageway at 10kph above the speed limit as long as they observe the limit in the left hand lane.


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## pixel (11 January 2017)

ASF has ALL the answers. Nothing more to add


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## bellenuit (11 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Driving to Melbourne on the Hume. The limit is 110 kph , there are speed cameras everywhere and if someone is doing 108 people overtake but are too afraid to exceed the speed limit so they speed too long in the right lane, blocking it for others. People should be allowed to overtake on a dual carriageway at 10kph above the speed limit as long as they observe the limit in the left hand lane.




Slightly off topic. I was following a car that was doing no more than 40 on a long stretch of road clearly marked as a 60km/hr zone. it was a single lane either way and some frustrated drivers took the risk of overtaking to get beyond that driver. Being in no hurry, I waited behind him allowing plenty of room for overtaking drivers to fit between us in case they encountered oncoming traffic. After about 5 minutes behind him, I noticed ahead a large, I presume Police owned, trailer sign normally used for warnings of every sort display as he approached: "Well Done, you are below speed limit".


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## SirRumpole (11 January 2017)

bellenuit said:


> Slightly off topic. I was following a car that was doing no more than 40 on a long stretch of road clearly marked as a 60km/hr zone. it was a single lane either way and some frustrated drivers took the risk of overtaking to get beyond that driver. Being in no hurry, I waited behind him allowing plenty of room for overtaking drivers to fit between us in case they encountered oncoming traffic. After about 5 minutes behind him, I noticed ahead a large, I presume Police owned, trailer sign normally used for warnings of every sort display as he approached: "Well Done, you are below speed limit".





Ha, meaning that all those who overtook the guy would be getting a ticket ?


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## Tisme (11 January 2017)

pixel said:


> ASF has ALL the answers. Nothing more to add




That post did remind me of an instance in this forum where two members thought me fair game for a touchup, but in the process revealed their advocacy for lewd child exploitation at the hands of unconscionable advertisers... I will admit it made me angry to think there are men out there who are happy to parade their lack a basic paternal instinct to protect children from harm, even if it reveals itself under the duress of having their ar5es handed to them.


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## Smurf1976 (11 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> which then poses the question of if the fibre is there for the local towers why not use it, rather than pay extra for mobile broadband....hard connects are always better than wireless.




In my case it's pretty simple in that I don't use much data. Had a look at the past 12 months and only once has it gone over 5Gb in any month and that was only slightly. That's combined use for home internet and mobile.

Since I've got 5Gb on the mobile and another 1Gb will cost an extra $10, I could basically scrap home broadband and not pay any more for the mobile than I'm paying now. That plus I'm not overly happy with my present ISP for the fixed connection so looking to change anyway.

So my thoughts are disconnect, use 4G only, then worry about getting NBN connected whenever I want it for video streaming or some other data-intensive use which won't likely be in the next 12 months (reason = life....). Since the fibre is already run to a box on the wall of the house there shouldn't (in theory at least) be any higher cost connecting later than doing it now.

I'm not desperate to save $ but it just seems silly to be paying for something I don't really need.

As for the technical aspects, agreed that hard wired always beats wireless. But then I can see the mobile tower from where I'm sitting now, could walk up to it in 20 minutes or so, and on the tests I've done Telstra 4G is faster than my present iiNet ADSL2+ anyway in "real world" usage so no issue there.


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## Smurf1976 (11 January 2017)

Bill M said:


> Bad Drivers:
> 
> Idiots at stop lights in the right lane that don't turn on the right blinker whilst at the stop line. Then when there is a mile of traffic behind them the penny drops and they turn on the blinker blocking everybody in that lane.




Only yesterday I was in the right lane, forgot to turn the indicator on and then realised. So I just went straight ahead (lane is either straight or right turn) rather than be a nuisance to those behind. Others should do the same if they find themselves in that situation - in most places it's not that hard to just turn around somewhere sensible or turn right at the next intersection etc.


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## Bill M (11 January 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> Only yesterday I was in the right lane, forgot to turn the indicator on and then realised. So I just went straight ahead (lane is either straight or right turn) rather than be a nuisance to those behind.



I always knew you were one of the good guys, good on ya Smurf.

Oh and about 4G versus fixed ADSL, if I only needed 5GB a Month then I would cut the fixed internet too. However, I'm downloading a fair bit and one movie on my Fetch Mighty gobbles up 4GB alone. It's all about data usage.


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## noirua (21 September 2019)

Joe Blow said:


> Spammers, scammers and forum trolls. There's more but that's my top three right now.


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## wayneL (21 September 2019)

"my pronouns are <...>"


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## BanstokHoliday (2 October 2019)

Math. I never understood why I need higher mathematics. I always had problems with math in school. I had to go to math classes https://www.ezymathtutoring.com.au/tutors/sydney-2000 and even though they were good courses, it still pissed me off.  But it helped me, now I understand mathematics and now at the University it is quite easy for me to learn mathematics.


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## sptrawler (10 October 2019)

Another resource being mined and sent overseas by overseas owned companies, not even on the ASX.

https://www.watoday.com.au/business...nsion-plans-still-on-ice-20191010-p52z9k.html

From the article:
_Mr Mignacca said once those plants were up and running the company's total workforce would double from 550 to 1100.


He said construction of the second plan, projected to cost more than $320 million when it was announced in 2017, created 700 construction jobs and had added 290 ongoing jobs to the mine _.

Wow, we get to dig it up and load it for them, thankyou so much.
Just my opinion.


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## BlindSquirrel (10 October 2019)

Y'know what grinds my gears? 
Mispronunciation of words by politicians and journalists.
Particularly "vulnerable" which is sometimes pronounced as "vunnerable", and "negotiate" keeps being said as "negossiate". There's probably more of them but they are the ones that make me lose a lot of respect for the speaker.


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## bi-polar (10 October 2019)

Singapore's PM Lee Kuan Yew said that Australians language is very similar to English.


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