# Delayed start to ASX?



## Prospector (22 September 2008)

Did anyone else know about this?  Even NAB had to check what was happening and no announcement on their website!


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## agro (22 September 2008)

*Mon 22nd - ASX Down on open?*

anyone else know whats happening?


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## gfresh (22 September 2008)

Seems like a case of "honey I broke the markets, sorry"


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## agro (22 September 2008)

yes  when i need to trade most lol


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## Trembling Hand (22 September 2008)

welcome to the back waters.

Friggin joke!!


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## awg (22 September 2008)

on Commsec, there is a message just saying that only, nothing i could see on ASX sight


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## white_goodman (22 September 2008)

*Re: Mon 22nd - ASX Down on open?*

armageddon, the world as we know it is over...


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

Talk about pent up demand!


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## rozella (22 September 2008)

*Re: Mon 22nd - ASX Down on open?*

Due to ASIC announcement open will be at 10:30am


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## tcoates (22 September 2008)

From shareselect...

Australian share market opening delayed by 30 minutes due to pending ASIC announcement.


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## cutz (22 September 2008)

*Re: Mon 22nd - ASX Down on open?*

market open delayed by 30min


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## finnsk (22 September 2008)

Delayed pending ACIC announcement


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## noirua (22 September 2008)

Fred gave the front door keys to Charlie and he overslept. Maggie is on a break so there are no spare keys.


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## dhukka (22 September 2008)

A case of unintended consequences perhaps?


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## bean (22 September 2008)

*Re: Mon 22nd - ASX Down on open?*

Stopped short selling 
Market to open up 4-5%

Rigged stock market


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## wayneL (22 September 2008)

noirua said:


> Fred gave the front door keys to Charlie and he overslept. Maggie is on a break so there are no spare keys.




Now that would be a laugh LOL


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## moXJO (22 September 2008)

You have to wonder just how very worried they must be to do all this. Creating an artificial bull market should be interesting.


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## James Austin (22 September 2008)

i wonder if this related to the collider experiments?


i just got a message, SPI suspended.
is that aside from ASX delayed open?


will only be able to go long on SPi from now on!


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## glenn_r (22 September 2008)

ASX200 SPI futures have been halted by the exchange for the moment


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## Real1ty (22 September 2008)

Isn't this just to ensure that the market is fully informed of the new shorting rules?

That's my guess anyway, can't see anything sinister in it.


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

So now what?


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## roland (22 September 2008)

10.30 has come and gone


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## prawn_86 (22 September 2008)

Prospector said:


> So now what?




The market wont open today cause they cant get their **** together and then Wall St will dive tonight, meaning that we will dive tomorrow, meaning that our 1 day of gains from following Wall St was missed out on making our fall even greater...


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## rub92me (22 September 2008)

Looks like they've read Wayne's suggestion. They have decided to stop buying as well. :


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## profithunter (22 September 2008)

0027 GMT [Dow Jones] Market open delayed pending clarification by ASIC on short selling
ban. Some traders speculate further delays possible. ASX initially said open delayed to
0030 GMT, but then says still waiting for ASIC clarity. Great uncertainty among options
traders over implications of ASIC's weekend move to ban short selling. ASIC says
ETOs, ETFs and warrant markets exempted from short-selling ban. Yet traders can't
see how that would work. "There's no way they cannot be affected," says
options trader. "If people want to short the market, they could do it via the
options market. They could sell calls naked, which is effectively naked short
selling." Adds, "most of the liquidity is from hedge funds doing stuff. If they
can't hedge off a position, why would they be buying? People are saying if these
hedge funds can't short, they're going to be liquidating positions rather than
buying."  Index last 4704.1. (DWR)


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## dutchie (22 September 2008)

pre open at 10.40


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## dubiousinfo (22 September 2008)

Just received an advice that market is going to pre-open at 10:40


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## Real1ty (22 September 2008)

Dealer Broadcast
22 Sep 2008 at 00:34:38 (GMT)
The ASX market opening has been delayed beyond the 10:30 start.


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## rozella (22 September 2008)

Now open at 10:40am


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## dhukka (22 September 2008)

This is just too funny. I guess it should be expected when morons have their hands on the levers of power.


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## korrupt_1 (22 September 2008)

strange days indeed..

well i got 2 trades through on the Aussie 200 before IG closed down too...

Anyway, jumping back to FX... which is still working


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## tcoates (22 September 2008)

Share Select - 10.36am - ASX open pushed to 11am, confusion regarding ASIC ban on short selling. They say options, warrants, ETF's OK.


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## sails (22 September 2008)

I just got 2 messages on Iress:

1.  SFE Advise: AP futures and options are currently in halted state pending clarification from ASIC

2. Market will be placed into pre open at 10.40am.

ASIC announcement is apparently to do with short selling - what a mess!


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## sails (22 September 2008)

SPI to go into re-open at 10.50


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## white_goodman (22 September 2008)

my theory....

Allco owns 20 Bridge St (exchange Centre)

they cant sell it to save themselves...

theyve blown it up internally to collect the insurance..


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## dubiousinfo (22 September 2008)

SFE to open SPI at 10:50


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

DO you think they acted without thinking of the consequences?  Seriously, is there anyone out there who knows what they are doing


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## nioka (22 September 2008)

dhukka said:


> This is just too funny. I guess it should be expected when morons have their hands on the levers of power.




 Seems like us morons finally rule the world. 

Definition of a moron: Someone with a different opinion.


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## prawn_86 (22 September 2008)

Perhaps ASF should band together and try and sue ASIC or the ASX for 'lost income' and 'hardship'

Take all the gun traders here average daily earnings and say that this 1 hr lost cost $X amount equates to a total of X dollars, plus compo for hardship 

Who's up for it?


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## LeeTV (22 September 2008)

ASIC restrict short selling with immediate effect. 22 Sep 2008

The Australian Securities and Investment Commission has made the following decisions to apply from the opening of the market on Monday, 22 September 2008:

1. Naked short selling banned
2. Covered short selling banned (subject to limited authorised market-maker exemption)
3. ASIC will reassess and advise the market in 30 days, whether or not it will at that time, or at a later date, reopen covered short sales for non-financial stocks.

ASX will implement the changes by removing all stocks from the permitted list of naked short sales.

Impact on CommSec customers:
In order to support the new regulations and return confidence to the financial markets, CommSec has made the following changes effective immediately
- Day Short Selling - No new orders will be accepted.
- Term Short Selling – No new orders will be accepted. Clients with open positions can still close out existing positions.
- ASX CFDs – No new “sell to open” orders will be accepted. Clients with open positions can still close out existing positions.
- OTC CFDs - No new “sell to open” orders will be accepted. Clients with open positions can still close out existing positions.

As ASIC and the ASX release more information regarding the changes to Short Selling we will post additional updates on the website to keep CommSec customers informed.

For further information regarding the ASIC guidelines on short selling please refer to the ASIC website (asic.gov.au)


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## xyzedarteerf (22 September 2008)

no more shorts..NO,NO,NO,....whats going on!!!





*ASIC bans all short-selling*


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## nioka (22 September 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> Perhaps ASF should band together and try and sue ASIC or the ASX for 'lost income' and 'hardship'
> 
> Take all the gun traders here average daily earnings and say that this 1 hr lost cost $X amount equates to a total of X dollars, plus compo for hardship
> 
> Who's up for it?




Now they might say they saved you money you may have lost and charge you a fee for service. Isn't it common knowledge that there are more losers trading than there are winners. You may have to prove you are actually a gun trader and not one of the rest.


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## michael_selway (22 September 2008)

nioka said:


> Now they might say they saved you money you may have lost and charge you a fee for service. Isn't it common knowledge that there are more losers trading than there are winners. You may have to prove you are actually a gun trader and not one of the rest.




*Market is scheduled to go into pre-open at 10:40am
The market will open at the following times:
Group 1 (A-B) 11am 
Group 2 (C-F) 11.04am 
Group 3 (G-M) 11.08am 
Group 4 (N-R) 11.12am 
Group 5 (S-Z) 11.16am *

thx

MS


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## prawn_86 (22 September 2008)

nioka said:


> Now they might say they saved you money you may have lost and charge you a fee for service. Isn't it common knowledge that there are more losers trading than there are winners. You may have to prove you are actually a gun trader and not one of the rest.




So we only get the profitable traders here to supply their statements and then sue the ass out of them 

Prof, wayne, TH etc im sure there are many more (myself not included  )


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## dhukka (22 September 2008)

nioka said:


> Seems like us morons finally rule the world.
> 
> Definition of a moron: Someone with a different opinion.




Well if you insist on lumping yourself in with the morons here is the definition from Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language:



> *page 1251:*
> 
> mo-ron - _n_. *1.* a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgement.  *2.* _Psychol_. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

From the ABC site - 



> Share market trading delayed
> Posted 6 minutes ago
> 
> Trade has been delayed on the Australian share market this morning as more information is sought about the Federal Government's ban on short-selling.
> ...


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

You would have thought that the government would have sacrificed their weekend to get to a conclusion tell the ASX and let the market open.  Where they out enjoying the great weather?


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## wayneL (22 September 2008)

> page 1251:
> 
> mo-ron - n. 1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgement. 2. Psychol. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.




So it's true, morons really do rule the world then!!!


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> You would have thought that the government would have sacrificed their weekend to get to a conclusion tell the ASX and let the market open.  Where they out enjoying the great weather?




Work on the weekend ? you must be jokin' this is Australia, never do on the weekend what you can put off til Monday in work hours, at this point they will have all gone to morning tea.


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## gav (22 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> You would have thought that the government would have sacrificed their weekend to get to a conclusion tell the ASX and let the market open.  Where they out enjoying the great weather?




I agree.  And Krudd is overseas on yet another holiday...


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## nioka (22 September 2008)

dhukka said:


> Well if you insist on lumping yourself in with the morons :




Actually I didn't insist. Chops put me there and seeing as he has ALL the right answers I had to accept the ref's call.


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

Damn NAB, it logs you out when going from one screen to the next and now I cant even get back in


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

I'm having trouble with the change of screens on E-Trade the volume must be massive, Not trading today just very curious to see what happens.


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## GreatPig (22 September 2008)

Yeah, NAB is a little slow on the odd refresh.

What I like though is the way quotes are shown as "Normal". 

GP


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## njc.corp (22 September 2008)

moXJO said:


> You have to wonder just how very worried they must be to do all this. Creating an artificial bull market should be interesting.




thank god someone understands what going on-

so by injecting money into the market means that all will be okay-

i say good for the big gains today but in your back of your mind dont tell me no-one is not thinking of how much pain is their to come?

Thanks

Nick--


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## Uncle Festivus (22 September 2008)

Or it's the last chance to sell?


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## moXJO (22 September 2008)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Or it's the last chance to sell?




yes dumped what little i had left.

I should have said their attempt at creating an artificial bullmarket. 

Hate to imagine every baby boomer trying to dump their stocks.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

ASX web site is slow, too slow, watchlists doesnt even open.

You know.......it's the year 2008 and the Australian Stock Exchange are so breathtakingly dumb that they haven't even set up their web site to perform under load when it's most important that it does work.

Release the hounds......


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

MrBurns said:


> \
> You know.......it's the year 2008 and the Australian Stock Exchange are so breathtakingly dumb that they haven't even set up their web site to perform under load when it's most important that it does work.
> 
> Release the hounds......




I can go one worse.  Each year, Year 12 students can log on to get their TER score from 8am on a nominated day.  Now, blind freddy would think that most kids would want to log on from 8am, plus parents etc etc - after all, it is the culmination of 12 years school!  So of course, each year, the server goes down at 7.55am as people start to log on.  Why?  Well, SATAC (the SA site)said they were overwhelmed with numbers!  WT, you didnt plan for that?


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

> Why? Well, SATAC (the SA site)said they were overwhelmed with numbers! WT, you didnt plan for that?




Obviously the evolution of man is lagging in some sectors of society, seriously !


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## LeeTV (22 September 2008)

Well if a delayed market open increases my overall holdings by 10% in a crappy market, which it has, I vote for a delayed market open everyday, huzzah!


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## Ashsaege (22 September 2008)

xyzedarteerf said:


> no more shorts..NO,NO,NO,....whats going on!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I actually know that guy, and im good mates with the Italian Spiderman


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## doogie_goes_off (22 September 2008)

The buy I had in got blown out of the water in the second pre-open. Annoying to say the least.


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

For those people who are bashing the ASX website and other web server should understand that they are designed for normal loading conditions. They are never designed to consider the worst case scenario as it will be cost pro-hibitive. For these 2% scenario they have a clause in their contract that 2% of the time the server or service will not be available. 

Same principle applies to most of the service oriented industries. The famous one is erlang distributiong used in the design of telephone network. Now almost completely rendered useless by the ever growing internet and data traffic and requires more complex models. pm me if interested in those models 

Look at the energy footprint of Google, which has to provide a simple webpage to billions of people everyday and every time. They require humongous resources and power..


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## seasprite (22 September 2008)

One of the brokers discovered a jar of sanitarium peanut butter in the cupboard was made in china , and had to contend with peak hour traffic to find a replacement. All trading was halted until his return.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

mayk said:


> For those people who are bashing the ASX website and other web server should understand that they are designed for normal loading conditions. They are never designed to consider the worst case scenario as it will be cost pro-hibitive. For these 2% scenario they have a clause in their contract that 2% of the time the server or service will not be available.
> 
> Same principle applies to most of the service oriented industries. The famous one is erlang distributiong used in the design of telephone network. Now almost completely rendered useless by the ever growing internet and data traffic and requires more complex models. pm me if interested in those models
> 
> Look at the energy footprint of Google, which has to provide a simple webpage to billions of people everyday and every time. They require humongous resources and power..




Errrr...........bulldust - the ASX web site is there to provide a service and to work when it's needed most which will be in times such as this, I don't care about their pathetic disclaimer "we will probably not work in times of share market crises" and the cost to have resources to cope in times like this ? give me a break this is the Australian Stock Exchange not Ma Kettles blog.

Any one who runs a site like that in this manner is a Neanderthal butt scratching primate who should be moved to another area where they can do less damage.


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

MrBurns. 

Do you expect that in the case of national disaster there should be plenty of doctors and nurses for each person hurt/ injured? Surely no ones is going to design the hospital by considering such a scenario. Same goes for all the services, you try to aim for mean(average) and anything which is not in the standard deviation is just thrown out the window.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

The share market has regular events that would spike the traffic on it's web site and on every occasion it doesn't cope.

You either have a web site or you don't but don't put up something that simply doesn't do what it's supposed to.

Hospitals cope very well with even large emergencies, because they bring resources in when needed unlike the dullards that run the ASX site who just hide behind a disclaimer.


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## Trembling Hand (22 September 2008)

mayk said:


> MrBurns.
> 
> Do you expect that in the case of national disaster there should be plenty of doctors and nurses for each person hurt/ injured? Surely no ones is going to design the hospital by considering such a scenario. Same goes for all the services, you try to aim for mean(average) and anything which is not in the standard deviation is just thrown out the window.




Sorry Mayk but they had the futures market open @ 9:50 where some $600,000,000 dollars worth of contracts changed hands. Now they allowed this without an informed market. In fact they continued to allow futures trading up till 10:18.

This isn't about having services up in busy times this is about running a credible service when HUGE amounts of money are involved. Come on even the brokers and IB's had no idea what was going on.


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> Come on even the brokers and IB's had know idea what was going on.




Yup, this is true,  when I rang NAB trading at 9.33 am because I was having problems with the laptop and thought it was me, the NAB checked through all my account, put me on hold for a couple of minutes and then came back with 'we have just found out that the market is on hold'.  When I asked why they hadnt put that on their website, they said they only JUST found out!  At 9.33!!!!!!


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## korrupt_1 (22 September 2008)

MrBurns said:


> You either have a web site or you don't but don't put up something that simply doesn't do what it's supposed to.




on a side note... the ASX website is horrible to navigate... i find it hard to find  the information i need... ASX website was probably designed by the same people who designed the ATO website...


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

korrupt_1 said:


> on a side note... the ASX website is horrible to navigate... i find it hard to find  the information i need... ASX website was probably designed by the same people who designed the ATO website...




Yes I think the ASX site is not run well at all, it also sometimes has an annoying Fairfax ad pop up that appears when you click links on the site, it immediately minimises itself but you have to click the link again and remember to close the Fairfax ad at some stage.

These guys must be from the early 80's in how they produce and run a site and you know why it's not picked up (my guess) ? because those that can make the changes are either too busy or too old to understand the Web.


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

Just to be clear TH I am not defending negligence. I am only defending the design of server and services based on the model that they should only cope with normal demand, because extremes will make them either useless (not cope with demand) or waste of money (capacity but no demand). A balance is required just like with everything else in life.

For critical application you will be surprised how much redundancy is applied. For example in a telecom satellite, in case of failure of 1 repeater 4 or 8 repeaters are present. Similarly, for the backbone of the internet, for every one switch 10 switches are placed to provide protection (not serve demand just protection).


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

mayk said:


> Just to be clear TH I am not defending negligence. I am only defending the design of server and services based on the model that they should only cope with normal demand, because extremes will make them either useless (not cope with demand) or waste of money (capacity but no demand). A balance is required just like with everything else in life.




When something doesnt work when it's needed most it's totally unacceptable by any standards.


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## GreatPig (22 September 2008)

Given the hundreds of millions that flow through the exchange each day, I doubt _anything_ in the computer world would be too expensive.

GP


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

MrBurns said:


> When something doesnt work when it's needed most it's totally unacceptable by any standards.




Well  if you believe that is the case then I think you will be surprised what will happen in a chaotic scenario. Remember the mobiles and telephones cannot cope if all the people want to use the telephone/mobile line at the same time. No one can guarantee 100% service all the time, unwanted disruptions can happen because of many natural/unnatural events. 

Although I agree that given enough resources things can work much better. But as most of the world is always after profits, so no one cares about the extremes. Have a look at huge amount of resources dedicated to Google, it is mind blowing. You can run a small city on the energy required just to run their servers...


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

> No one can guarantee 100% service all the time, unwanted disruptions can happen because of many natural/unnatural events.




These aren't unnatural events, the share market has crises and their web site has heavy load demands on a regular basis and the system/tech administators they have aren't up to the job.


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## Prospector (22 September 2008)

All the ASX needed to do was issue a statement at 9am to tell people of the delay.  It is called - tada - Communication - something the ASX demand of everyone else but obviously not of themselves.  To not do this smacks of incompetence.


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## cuttlefish (22 September 2008)

It's shocking behaviour from ASIC and from the ASX - though to some extent the ASX are stuck behind what ASIC is doing.



mayk - the ASX web site is predominately an information server - it is not a transaction processing site like google etc. - the server and bandwidth requirements to have it up to serve information to the paltry numbers of the australian population that trades is miniscule in comparison to what is needed for many other web sites - so the cost of implementing it in a way as to handle conditions like today should not be significant for an organisation like the ASX.


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

cuttlefish said:


> It's shocking behaviour from ASIC and from the ASX - though to some extent the ASX are stuck behind what ASIC is doing.
> 
> 
> 
> mayk - the ASX web site is predominately an information server - it is not a transaction processing site like google etc. - the server and bandwidth requirements to have it up to serve information to the paltry numbers of the australian population that trades is miniscule in comparison to what is needed for many other web sites - so the cost of implementing it in a way as to handle conditions like today should not be significant for an organisation like the ASX.





Yes they can do better and they should do better. Aesthetics  and information availability from their website is altogether a different matter.  

Well, I am just stating the design principle, if you guys don't agree it is because you are not trying to see the profit aspect of ASX...  This is how websites and other service oriented businesses are designed.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

mayk said:


> Yes they can do better and they should do better. Aesthetics  and information availability from their website is altogether a different matter.
> 
> Well, I am just stating the design principle, if you guys don't agree it is because you are not trying to see the profit aspect of ASX...  This is how websites and other service oriented businesses are designed.




You dont help your profits by burning your visitors off to make petty savings.

I'ts just incompetance and not understanding the importance of their own web site.


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

MrBurns said:


> You dont help your profits by burning your visitors off to make petty savings.
> 
> I'ts just incompetance and not understanding the importance of their own web site.




AS long as ASX is a monopoly they don't care.  

P.S. I was never trying to defend ASX, I was just stating the design principle for web sites and server resources allocation.


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