# What does the Alt-Right want?



## basilio (6 December 2017)

Milo has come to  Australia to spread the word of the Alt Right.

Who would like to identify the policies of the Alt Right please ?  What changes would one like to see  in our society after following these policies ?   Why are they needed?

All yours.


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## Wysiwyg (6 December 2017)

Best define Aternative Right for better understanding of the bitter and twisted side of humanity. 



> The *alt-right* (shortened for *Alternative Right*)[note 1] or *new right* is a far-right movement that opposes multiculturalism and social justice movements (or what they call "Cultural Marxists" and "SJWs"). The movement is made up largely of young Internet-dwellers; it is itself the merger of traditional white nationalists, neo-Nazis, neo-Confederates, and far-right internet groups (such as the neoreactionary movement and right-wing elements of the Gamergate movement). The alt-right consensus generally rests at the juncture of those three groups. The alt-right is also united by its support for U.S. Republican President Donald Trump. The term originated with Richard Spencer's white nationalist magazine/blog _Alternative Right_, nicknamed "AltRight".
> 
> The alt-right wholeheartedly embraces the overt racism, misogyny, neo-Nazi affectations, bullying and trolling of chan culture as a lifestyle. You'll find them on /pol/, /r/The_Donald, My Posting Career or The Right Stuff; they make up a sizable fraction of the more radical and uncouth sections of Gamergate. They're also the ones who popularized "cuckservative" as a term of abuse for those on the right who are deemed not racist enough.


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## sptrawler (7 December 2017)

Well I don't know about the alternative right, but I do know (from personal experience) there are a lot of young Australians, who are just banding together on welfare, to enjoy the meth life.


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## Caveman (7 December 2017)

Like the Greens of the 80`s they are a bunch of idiots.


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## wayneL (7 December 2017)

Alt right is a reaction to the lunatic left and extreme pc etc.

Incidentally,  I wouldn't describe Milo as alt right


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## Logique (7 December 2017)

I can tell you something they _don't_ want Bas!  And Milo Y. isn't alt-right, as Wayne correctly states.


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## Tisme (7 December 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> Best define Aternative Right for better understanding of the bitter and twisted side of humanity.





The C&P definition in itself is a piece of socialist diatribe...... it's a nonsense mixing, just like saying petticote men are all alt-left, misandrists are all alt-left.

The alternate right are, rightly or wrongly, the traditional values people who have seen Conservative and Worker parties abandon these principals for social engineering and personal correctness.

Nazis, misogynists, etc are heaped into the mix to denigrate the ideals of the alt-right, when in fact they belong to the "ult-right"


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## SirRumpole (7 December 2017)

So is Cory Bernadi and David Lleyohjelm "alt Right" I wonder or are they just "Conservatives" ?

I think they are just a bunch of rich *****s who want to protect their own tax rorts and don't like the idea that greater income distribution might actually be good for the economy.


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## moXJO (7 December 2017)

Tisme said:


> The C&P definition in itself is a piece of socialist diatribe...... it's a nonsense mixing, just like saying petticote men are all alt-left, misandrists are all alt-left.
> 
> The alternate right are, rightly or wrongly, the traditional values people who have seen Conservative and Worker parties abandon these principals for social engineering and personal correctness.
> 
> Nazis, misogynists, etc are heaped into the mix to denigrate the ideals of the alt-right, when in fact they belong to the "ult-right"



Basically this. 
Asking what they want is too broad of a question when you lump so many groups together.
The left calling jews nazis was the icing on the cake.


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## moXJO (7 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> So is Cory Bernadi and David Lleyohjelm "alt Right" I wonder or are they just "Conservatives" ?
> 
> I think they are just a bunch of rich *****s who want to protect their own tax rorts and don't like the idea that greater income distribution might actually be good for the economy.



Didn't it all kind of start with "occupy Wallstreet" in which the alt-right didn't want to bailout the banks? 
It was also the start of calling bs on the media.

Alt-right basically boils down to less government interference in peoples lives. Which can be a very broad spectrum.


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## SirRumpole (7 December 2017)

moXJO said:


> Didn't it all kind of start with "occupy Wallstreet" in which the alt-right didn't want to bailout the banks?
> It was also the start of calling bs on the media.
> 
> Alt-right basically boils down to less government interference in peoples lives. Which can be a very broad spectrum.




Yes I think that there is both an economic and social agenda of the alt Right. You can agree with one, the other or both, but in the end it's an extremist movement just like the alt Left is.


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## moXJO (7 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes I think that there is both an economic and social agenda of the alt Right. You can agree with one, the other or both, but in the end it's an extremist movement just like the alt Left is.



Too many groups have been thrown into the mix. You have skinheads lumped in with ultra-nationalists jews. 
You can agree with aspects of their policies and totally hate other parts. But the strategy of the left of lumping everyone together may eventually backfire. 

Guys like Milo and Ben Shapiro try and narrow the focus.


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## wayneL (7 December 2017)

Cory Bernardi is just a traditional conservative 

David Leyonhjelm is a libertarian/classical liberal, which were once considered left... certainly on social ideology.


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## moXJO (7 December 2017)

wayneL said:


> Cory Bernardi is just a traditional conservative
> 
> David Leyonhjelm is a libertarian/classical liberal, which were once considered left... certainly on social ideology.



I don't mind David leyonhjelm.


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## pixel (9 December 2017)

basilio said:


> Milo has come to  Australia to spread the word of the Alt Right.
> 
> Who would like to identify the policies of the Alt Right please ?  What changes would one like to see  in our society after following these policies ?   Why are they needed?
> 
> All yours.



Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!
_"Quidquid id est, 
Timeo Danaos 
Et dona ferentes."_


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## TikoMike (9 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> So is Cory Bernadi and David Lleyohjelm "alt Right" I wonder or are they just "Conservatives" ?
> 
> I think they are just a bunch of rich *****s who want to protect their own tax rorts and don't like the idea that greater income distribution might actually be good for the economy.



Socialism has worked for which country now?


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2017)

TikoMike said:


> Socialism has worked for which country now?




Sweden ?

Norway ?


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## wayneL (9 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Sweden ?
> 
> Norway ?



Sorry Horace, still mixed economies mate, not truly socialist.

...and Sweden is in big trouble.


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2017)

wayneL said:


> Sorry Horace, still mixed economies mate, not truly socialist.
> 
> ...and Sweden is in big trouble.




So who actually advocated "true" socialism ?

Not me mate, I just argued for more even wealth distribution not a complete takeover of private enterprise by governments.


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2017)

wayneL said:


> ...and Sweden is in big trouble.




I wouldn't mind being in this much trouble...

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017...ost-other-countries-at-just-about-everything/


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## TikoMike (9 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I wouldn't mind being in this much trouble...
> 
> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017...ost-other-countries-at-just-about-everything/




UN report predicts Sweden to be a third world country by 2030. Link also contains a link to the UN report.

http://www.speisa.com/modules/artic...rd-world-country-by-2030-according-to-un.html

Although nothing to do with your Robin Hood strategy of income distribution this is still related to Sweden's socialist ideas of open borders, crime and rape increasing:

https://acidmuncher.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/no-fox-news-trump-arent-lying-about-sweden/
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress....-for-95-of-all-crimes-overrepresented-by-430/

Yes Sweden is in trouble.


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## orr (10 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Sweden ?
> 
> Norway ?



Rumpole, not surprisingly that this thread has attracted those with a morbid fascination with Worlds worst practice ...
Any out there with a view as to whether the alt-right are likely to get a policy up like Norway's Oil resource funded Sovereign Wealth fund. A little bit of Worlds best practice. Or is it like the tendencies of their golden boy provocateur their wish to be bent over and financially raped by the biggest and roughest mining and oil conglomerates. After only  a little lubing up for their pleasure...

I know a little too of Sweden, having paddled there in an inflatable raft from the Mediterranean.
'Prediction is always difficult, particularly when it's about the future.' Yogi Berra...


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## Tisme (19 December 2017)




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## basilio (31 December 2017)

*Getting real about Milo's politics. * As you can see you can read the full set of notes made by the Editors from the New York State Courts website.*

*
* 'Unclear, unfunny, delete': editor's notes on Milo Yiannopoulos book revealed *
Court submissions in lawsuit over far-right provocateur’s memoir reveal concerns over weak arguments, boasting and racism




Milo Yiannopoulos’s book deal with Simon & Schuster was cancelled in February. Photograph: Lucas Jackson/Reuters
Martin Belam

Fri 29 Dec ‘17 02.43 AEDT   Last modified on Fri 29 Dec ‘17 09.00 AEDT


*Shares*
29k

Court documents filed in the US have revealed the editorial concerns of the publisher Simon & Schuster about the manuscript of the “alt-right” controversialist Milo Yiannopoulos’s autobiography Dangerous.

Having reportedly secured the book for an advance of $255,000 (£200,000), Simon & Schuster cancelled the deal in February after a recording emerged that appeared to show Yiannopoulos endorsing sex between “younger boys” and older men.

In July, Yiannopoulos set out to sue Simon & Schuster for $10m for breach of contract. As part of the case, Simon & Schuster have submitted documents that reveal the problems they had with the book. Among other criticisms, the publisher’s notes say Yiannopoulos needed a “stronger argument against feminism than saying that they are ugly and sexless and have cats” and that another chapter needs “a better central thesis than the notion that gay people should go back in the closet”.

In addition to the documents, a full copy of an early manuscript of the book, complete with the Simon & Schuster editor Mitchell Ivers’s notes, is available to download from the New York state courts’ website.



 Facebook   Twitter   Pinterest 
Court document from New York County reveals the editor’s notes on the manuscript for Milo Yiannopoulos’ cancelled book Photograph: New York Unified Court System
The tone is set in notes on the prologue to the manuscript. Ivers writes to Yiannopoulos: “Throughout the book, your best points seem to be lost in a sea of self-aggrandizement and scattershot thinking,” and adds: “Careful that the egotistical boasting … doesn’t make you seem juvenile.”

“Add something like this – only less self-serving” reads another comment early in the manuscript.

Ivers frequently calls on Yiannopoulos to back up his assertions in the text. In the first nine pages of chapter one, notes include: “Citations needed”, “Do you have proof of this?”, “Unsupportable charge” and “Cite examples”.

Yiannopoulos was permanently banned from Twitter in 2016 after his role in the online harassment of the Ghostbusters actor Leslie Jones. The editor makes several notes asking the author to tone down racism in the text. “Delete irrelevant and superfluous ethnic joke,” Ivers writes of a passage about taxi drivers. “Let’s not call South Africa ‘white’” is another request, while elsewhere Yiannopoulos is reprimanded for using the phrase “dark continent” about Africa.

Yiannopoulos, who was filmed singing America the Beautiful while the white nationalist leader Richard Spencer and others gave the Hitler salute in the audience, is also criticised for attempting to suggest that the Hollywood left is more racist than Nazis. “I don’t like using Nazi analogies. Ever,” is the editor’s note.

Yiannopoulos is repeatedly warned his choice of words is undermining any argument he is attempting to make. “The use of phrases like ‘two-faced backstabbing bitches’ diminishes your overall point,” reads one comment. “Too important a point to end in a crude quip” is another. “Unclear, unfunny, delete,” reads another.

The early sections of a chapter on feminism prompt the note: “Don’t start chapter with accusation that feminists = fat. It destroys any seriousness of purpose.” Yiannopoulos goes on to criticise contemporary feminism as “merely a capitalist con-job – a money-grab designed to sell T-shirts to Taylor Swift and Beyoncé fans with asinine slogans”. “Um … like your MILO SWAG?” the editor responds.

Ivers’s evident exasperation becomes clear by page 84, where Yiannopoulos’s call for lesbians to be thrown out of academia altogether simply elicits the all-upper-case comment: “DELETE UGH.”

On Wednesday, Ivers “retweeted without comment” Publishing Perspectives’ Editor-in-Chief Porter Anderson pointing out that Ivers’ overall review described the book as “at best, a superficial work full of incendiary jokes with no coherent or sophisticated analysis of political issues”.

Mitchell Ivers (@MitchellIvers)
Retweeted without comment. https://t.co/tzjvJMwX8j

December 27, 2017
However, the emergence of the notes have not allowed Simon & Schuster to escape continued criticism for their initial striking of a deal with Yiannopoulos, or their editorial efforts to make his ideas more palatable to the market.

The comments from Ivers came to wider attention when excerpts were posted to Twitter by software engineer Sarah Mei, who suggested some of them might make great observations to use in the future.

Dangerous was eventually self-published in July 2017. While Yiannopoulos claimed that it had sold 100,000 copies in its first few days on sale, data revealed that it had in fact sold fewer than 20,000.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...tors-notes-on-milo-yiannopoulos-book-revealed


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## basilio (31 December 2017)

Clicking onto the original manuscript with the editors notes is sobering.  It feels like someone desperately putting lipstick on pig - trying to help Milo create some coherance with his hate ramblings. 

Check it out.

I_n addition to the documents, a full copy of an early manuscript of the book, complete with the Simon & Schuster editor Mitchell Ivers’s notes, is available to download from the New York state courts’ website._


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## Tisme (31 December 2017)

Can't deny that Milo preaches to sellout crowds, while Lucas Jackson probably does not.


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## basilio (31 December 2017)

Tisme said:


> Can't deny that Milo preaches to sellout crowds, while Lucas Jackson probably does not.



So as long as someone is "succesful" what they are selling doesn't matter ?


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## moXJO (1 January 2018)

basilio said:


> So as long as someone is "succesful" what they are selling doesn't matter ?



You need to ask yourself why he became so popular. 
Leftists snowflakes have a lot to answer for....


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## SirRumpole (1 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> You need to ask yourself why he became so popular.
> Leftists snowflakes have a lot to answer for....




I doubt if he's popular generally, he may be lauded within a small circle but I don't think the majority really give a stuff about his views, or the extreme Left's either, most people just aren't that engaged.


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## Tisme (1 January 2018)

basilio said:


> So as long as someone is "succesful" what they are selling doesn't matter ?




Not arguing the righteousness of it bas, just that trying to use Milo as a vehicle for fame and example of the failings of individualism isn't going to stop the tsunami of people fed up with ordered society that serves nobody but the few.

The "alt-right" is human nature fighting back. Some just can't break the idealistic shackles of the new perversion of institutional socialism where equals are legislated to give up their innate freedoms of personal bias to satisfy the endemic unequals.


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## moXJO (1 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I doubt if he's popular generally, he may be lauded within a small circle but I don't think the majority really give a stuff about his views, or the extreme Left's either, most people just aren't that engaged.



It's kicked off the snowball. His views tap into the middle just enough to start pulling people in.

 Every time we get some idiot PC incident,  or whinging snowflake telling everyone how to live,  or attempts to shutdown the other persons view,  etc. It's narrowing the middle.

Same goes for those that are left leaning. People are now identifying as left or right, or at least spruiking the mantra. 20 years ago no one gave a crap.

Blaming white guys for everything is one of the most abhorrent things the left decided to do. I work with a lot of troubled teens to get them back on track and it doesn't take much. But the drift down in society of many of these teens is shocking.
Unfortunately we have an education system that needs a major overhaul until then enjoy the ride down.


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## Tisme (2 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> It's kicked off the snowball. His views tap into the middle just enough to start pulling people in.
> 
> Every time we get some idiot PC incident,  or whinging snowflake telling everyone how to live,  or attempts to shutdown the other persons view,  etc. It's narrowing the middle.
> 
> ...





I think it's more than just a vacuum left by preoccupying polarised views, there is a real problem here where sanitised form of caring has taken hold. 

There is a whole swathe of people who spruik and pander to the notion of an egalitarian society, but do so at arms length through social media.  

When I tested the resolve of a few friends they were happy to cast their votes, but get personally involved ... no. They won't even give to charity. Of course they don't see the damage they cause because they are too busy feeling good about their being part of social change for the sake of change.


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## SirRumpole (13 October 2018)

Alt Right infiltrates mainstream politics.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...-of-mainstream-politics-in-australia/10368972


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## IFocus (13 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Alt Right infiltrates mainstream politics.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...-of-mainstream-politics-in-australia/10368972




There are some very fine people there.........jews will never rule over us.

This all due to the lefts fault.........oh thats right there is no left wing government in power anywhere in the world at the moment.

Hang on look over there at all those nasty leftists..........meanwhile big money strips rights and wealth of the majority of the peasants......after throwing them some bread crumbs ....


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## wayneL (13 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Alt Right infiltrates mainstream politics.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...-of-mainstream-politics-in-australia/10368972



Well at least the alt right are correctly identified this time.


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## basilio (13 October 2018)

*Brazil’s populist candidate for president is getting a boost from an alt-right social network*





*Brazil's populist candidate for president is getting a boost from an alt-right social network*


By David Gilbert Oct 8, 2018
Jair Bolsonaro, the leader of Brazil's right-wing populist movement, once told a female legislator she was unworthy of rape and praised the man who oversaw torture during the country’s two decades of military rule. Now, he's poised to become Brazil's next president. And he has an unlikely ally: Gab, the U.S.-based social network best-known as a haven for neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

While Facebook and Twitter have worked to make sure their platforms don’t play a toxic role in Brazil’s presidential election Sunday, Gab has sought to capitalize on the country's surging right-wing community and the fake-news hysteria that surrounds it. With over 600,000 users worldwide, the company is actively looking to grow its base by attracting high-profile figures of Brazil’s far right, including Bolsonaro himself.

“When Bolsonaro joins Gab, Twitter will be dead in Brazil and the media will panic,” Gab’s founder, Andrew Torba, said in September. Torba, a 27-year-old entrepreneur from Pennsylvania, says his site is apolitical, and that its success in Brazil is a consequence of Silicon Valley's crackdown. But he's hardly been shy about his own admiration for the Brazilian politician. His boast came after Bolsonaro’s party, PSL (Partido Social Liberal), created a Gab account on August 23. 
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article...getting-a-boost-from-alt-right-social-network


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## Tisme (13 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Alt Right infiltrates mainstream politics.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...-of-mainstream-politics-in-australia/10368972




Reading that I would have said "reclaiming" mainstream politics.


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## SirRumpole (13 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Reading that I would have said "reclaiming" mainstream politics.




I'm not sure Menzies would have approved.

He didn't like Hitler very much I think. 

But if all they want is a cut in immigration a lot would agree, but not for the same reasons.


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## wayneL (13 October 2018)

basilio said:


> *Brazil’s populist candidate for president is getting a boost from an alt-right social network*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gab is not inherently left or right,  it is a free speech platform,  unlike Twitter and Facebook.

If you would like to debate points without fear of censorship, on either side,  Gab is the place.


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## Tisme (13 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not sure Menzies would have approved.
> 
> He didn't like Hitler very much I think.
> 
> But if all they want is a cut in immigration a lot would agree, but not for the same reasons.





Country Party?


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## SirRumpole (13 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Country Party?




You mean like Joh ?

Yeah he was Right out there wasn't he, so  I suppose you have a point.


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## Tisme (13 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> You mean like Joh ?
> 
> Yeah he was Right out there wasn't he, so  I suppose you have a point.





Yes the Nationals was the Country Party, before name change to capture the city vote.


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## basilio (5 November 2018)

A piece of history on the Far Right in the US.

*When 20,000 American Nazis Descended Upon New York City*
* Oct 10, 2017 | 679 videos *
*Video by Marshall Curry *
In 1939, the German American Bund organized a rally of 20,000 Nazi supporters at Madison Square Garden in New York City. When Academy Award-nominated documentarian Marshall Curry stumbled upon footage of the event in historical archives, he was flabbergasted. Together with Field of Vision, he decided to present the footage as a cautionary tale to Americans. The short film, _A Night at the Garden, _premieres on _The Atlantic_ today.

“The first thing that struck me was that an event like this could happen in the heart of New York City,” Curry told _The Atlantic_. “Watching it felt like an episode of _The Twilight Zone_ where history has taken a different path. But it wasn’t science fiction – it was real, historical footage. It all felt eerily familiar, given today’s political situation.”

Rather than edit the footage into a standard historical documentary with narration, Curry decided to “keep it pure, cinematic, and unmediated, as if you are there, watching, and wrestling with what you are seeing. I wanted it to be more provocative than didactic – a small history-grenade tossed into the discussion we are having about White Supremacy right now.”


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## luutzu (5 November 2018)

IFocus said:


> There are some very fine people there.........jews will never rule over us.
> 
> This all due to the lefts fault.........oh thats right there is no left wing government in power anywhere in the world at the moment.
> 
> Hang on look over there at all those nasty leftists..........meanwhile big money strips rights and wealth of the majority of the peasants......after throwing them some bread crumbs ....




According to Trump and US Security Advisor Bolton, there's now at least three socialist "regime". They are the, drum roll, "troika of tyranny". Hell bend on taking over the US, ruling the world. 

These are... Venezuela, Cuba and Guatamela [?].


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## wayneL (5 November 2018)

Thanks bas. 

What's that got to do with 2018?


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## luutzu (5 November 2018)

basilio said:


> A piece of history on the Far Right in the US.
> 
> *When 20,000 American Nazis Descended Upon New York City*
> * Oct 10, 2017 | 679 videos *
> ...





Christ Hedges gave a speech recently where he recall his former professor at Harvard's Divinity School telling his class that had the Nazi won WWII and take over the US, say... 75% of the current Harvard faculty would have no problem doing the Nazi salute before each lesson as required.

Hedges said the class laugh/scoff at the idea but the man was serious. He said he saw it first hand in his former Germany when Hitler first took over. At some of the best university in the recently democratic Germany... professors all salute and love the Fuhrer.

The professor went on to predict that in 80 years time, the US will face another war with right-wing Christian nationalists right (t)here in America.

Then if we look at what some historian attributed as the main reason why the US did not collapse into fascism when other democratic states in Europe did at the same time; how did FDR saved the US democratic capitalist from going the way of Germany or Italy... It's social welfare, The New Deal, education, public works employing Americans during that Great Depression.

Then compare that to today's policies of systematically reversing all those policies at a time when most of the American population are either in poverty or living on the edge of it; where wealth and income inequality is the highest since the freakin Pharaohs of ancient Egypt. Where about 1/4 is in poverty, 1/3rd close to it; 2/3rd couldn't afford a $1,000 emergency.

In the 1980s, the comrades in Beijing face a similar problem with their plebs. They got real smart and open up the economy, creating jobs and prevented mass starvation follow by social/political revolution.

The comrades in Washington doesn't seem to believe it is possible for their awesome system of governance to collapse. Why not?

When half the country literally do not believe their votes count; when studies have shown that for the 99%, policies are decided whether they like it or not while policies the 1% dislike will not get passed...

There's only so much fine speeches and flag hugging can do. End of the day, once people couldn't see themselves improving their station in life no matter how much they work at it; or hate or blame this and that other group... they're going to want real change, permanently.

Remember too that Hitler got voted in. He put forward a resolution giving him total power, it was voted yay.


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## wayneL (5 November 2018)

Grasshopper,  bas,  the point had been made, a line in the sand had been drawn in the same as to what is too far right (some describe Nazism as left,  but leaving that aside for the moment). 

But,  we haven't drawn a line in the sand as to what is too far left. Perhaps not economically, but socially, if we haven't already gone past that, we are dangerously close.

Ascribing Nazism or fascism to any but a very tiny and insignificant minority is just bloody stupid.


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## luutzu (5 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Grasshopper,  bas,  the point had been made, a line in the sand had been drawn in the same as to what is too far right (some describe Nazism as left,  but leaving that aside for the moment).
> 
> But,  we haven't drawn a line in the sand as to what is too far left. Perhaps not economically, but socially, if we haven't already gone past that, we are dangerously close.
> 
> Ascribing Nazism or fascism to any but a very tiny and insignificant minority is just bloody stupid.




I don't think Bas, or myself, ascribed fascism to the US or American people. I was merely pointing out other much smarter and more experienced scholars saying that it's not that hard for the US to tip into it.

If we look at the conditions that spark a democratic, civilised, greatest and most awesome country, ever... why they either completely collapsed, fall into authoritarian, dictatorial rule... Are those conditions what we're seeing in the US lately?

I mean, why did the Roman Republic fell into the hands of Caesar after 700 years of "democracy"? Why did the democratic German republic elected Hitler? Then gave him absolute power? Why did any god-king dynasty and empire collapse?

Endless wars; emptied treasury; rebellion in the colonies; domestic discontent at home; inept, cowardly, incompetent leadership who see nothing could possibly go wrong with the empire ever increasing frontiers...  A fast rising peer competitor you can't bribe, can't order around, can't nuke, can hardly convince its potential enemies to form an alliance with you.

The only thing the US has going for it is that freedom, peaceful transfer of power, peaceful revolution... But those are being quietly incorporated and properly owned. 

So there's that Meiji Imperial Japan... lasting from about 1880s to 1945? The Czarist Russia; the Soviet Union; Great Britain after Waterloo [1812? to about 1919? 1945?]; Qing China collapsed in 1915 about?

Then there's the countless other monarchs and mini emperors all over the place in just the 20th century alone. The world over. 

So a country, an empire, can very quickly collapse if the conditions are right. 

The most important condition, cause, is the suffering and feelings of betrayal by the plebs. Without the support of the people, all government collapses. I mean, they're the one who fight for, defend, protect, enrich the country. And they cannot afford a quick ticket out of town if the shite hits the fan so without them willing to support, game's over.


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## sptrawler (5 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> So a country, an empire, can very quickly collapse if the conditions are right.
> 
> The most important condition, cause, is the suffering and feelings of betrayal by the plebs. Without the support of the people, all government collapses. I mean, they're the one who fight for, defend, protect, enrich the country. And they cannot afford a quick ticket out of town if the shite hits the fan so without them willing to support, game's over.




In a Country where everyone expects something for nothing, when that is no longer affordable, they also feel betrayed.
How do you placate them, when you no longer have anything left, to give them?


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## luutzu (5 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> In a Country where everyone expects something for nothing, when that is no longer affordable, they also feel betrayed.
> How do you placate them, when you no longer have anything left, to give them?




Nobody expects anything for nothing. And receiving welfare is never getting money "for nothing".

Take any person you care to and see if throughout their entire life, they do not contribute to the country in some way. 

They work at some point in their life; they raise a family; they pay their taxes; they do charity work; earn money where they can; tried to study; gave this and that career a shot... 

So if they failed, became ill or disabled... ie. come to a point where they are "getting money for nothing".  

Well, if we define the time frame of them doing nothing for society as the time they're not doing anything but receiving "entitlement"... then sure. But if we're honest about when they were able and did contribute but receive nothing then but now need some help... then it seem kind of fair that they should get some help. 

That and why the heck do you give money to those who already have more than what they know what to do with while taking away from those who have nothing? 

Anyway... from what I see in Vietnam... where the peasants literally gets nothing for all that war fighting, liberation, sending their kids, their husband or themselves to fight and die... Even then they still do not resent the gov't for them being poor, not getting any help because the gov't itself is also poor.

But they're pizzed off the moment they see that ey, apparently some of the comrades are more equal than others. Some get to eat, drink and send their kids overseas to "study", comes back and have a gov't job and a nice house waiting for them. That compare to their kids getting jack all. 

That's why the average peasant in places like VN is just waiting for a spark to take the place down. That's why the smarter comrades are sending their kids abroad, get a second citizenship and stash the loot far away for safe keeping. They know it's coming. 

And that's also why the elite in the West bought themselves re-purposed bomb shelters, a nice retirement gated community in New Zealand... it'll be safe because when all hell break lose, the servants and bodyguards would most definitely still be loyal and protective of their masters.


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2018)

Well Iuutzu, that is why you see the boats coming this way, rather than heading to Vietnam, Indonesia, or the Philippines.
It isn't because we are better looking. IMO 

When you have to import labor by giving them extended visas, because you can't get your unemployed, to get off their ar$e you know you have a problem. IMO


----------



## luutzu (5 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well Iuutzu, that is why you see the boats coming this way, rather than heading to Vietnam, Indonesia, or the Philippines.
> It isn't because we are better looking. IMO
> 
> When you have to import labor by giving them extended visas, because you can't get your unemployed, to get off their ar$e you know you have a problem. IMO




If you're complaining that our poor are lazy, why not welcome their poor who's risking life and limbs for a chance to be properly exploited? 

Seems that mass migration is already on the rise around the world. 

Climate Change forcing certain species of fish to move further and deeper away; drought; floods; famine. 

Might be a whole lot cheaper to not allow "our" multinationals to exploit other people's stuff. I mean, just read yesterday on the AFR that Australia is poised to be the world's largest exporter of LNG... the current largest is Qatar [?].

Now, Qatar manages to gain some $28B in revenue from LNG last year. 

We Aussies with a similar amount of LNG manages to get a $0.8B in revenue. 

Geezus man, even a middle man get a bigger commission than that.


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> If you're complaining that our poor are lazy, why not welcome their poor who's risking life and limbs for a chance to be properly exploited?
> 
> Seems that mass migration is already on the rise around the world.
> 
> ...




And yet you still think robbing 'Peter to pay Paul' is the answer?

I've been saying for YEARS, that we should be charging resource Companies, on a volume basis.

Yet all we can debate, is whether you ask the able bodied unemployed to work, or not.


----------



## luutzu (5 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> And yet you still think robbing 'Peter to pay Paul' is the answer?
> 
> I've been saying for YEARS, that we should be charging resource Companies, on a volume basis.
> 
> Yet all we can debate, is whether you ask the able bodied unemployed to work, or not.




All national budgets around the world siphons money from the poor, hand it over to Paul and Co. Peter get to stand on his rock and awaits the Second coming of the Carpenter to build something cool on top of it. 

So no, that's not a good idea. 


One of the elder statesmen of Lu asked Confucius, "How would it be to make the people serious and loyal, and thus enthusiastic?"

Confucius said, "Preside over them with dignity, and they will be serious. Be filial and kind, and they will be loyal. Promote the good, instruct the unskilled, and they will be enthusiastic." (2:20)  

Tell 'em to get a job son, any job so you can pay taxes while you're young and able but will be label parasitic low life when you're disabled or old. Good luck with that.


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> Tell 'em to get a job son, any job so you can pay taxes while you're young and able but will be label parasitic low life when you're disabled or old. Good luck with that.




The good thing about a job, it gives someone a sense of worth, it also gives them something to do it takes up a part of their day.
To think that it is better to pay someone, to sit around wallowing in their own despair, rather than paying them for being productive.
Is just undermining a persons self respect. IMO
I'm sure Confucius, didn't say, let them sit around and feed them, while we bring in people to work for them.


----------



## luutzu (6 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> The good thing about a job, it gives someone a sense of worth, it also gives them something to do it takes up a part of their day.
> To think that it is better to pay someone, to sit around wallowing in their own despair, rather than paying them for being productive.
> Is just undermining a persons self respect. IMO
> I'm sure Confucius, didn't say, let them sit around and feed them, while we bring in people to work for them.




Not literally a job though. I think it's more of a sense of "achievement".

That's why you see self-entitled rich pricks banging for tax cuts, incentives and subsidies. And are proud of it. It's mainly because they believe that they are more deserving, worth more than those underserving druggos and lazy lards. 

I think a lot of people have self-respect. I mean there's welfare cheats of course... but there are spies and check ups for those right? 

So the vast majority of those on welfare are so not because they don't have self-respect, but because they're poor and need help. To call them names, make them jump through hoops to get any assistant is to push away those desperate but are too proud; or those too poor to be proud. It's not hurting those who know they're screwing the system and enjoying life from it.

-----

Confucius said... "Those above secure their homes by kindness to those below." - i.e. save you from being robbed, son.

Also, "Good people decrease what is too much to add to what is too little, assessing things and dealing impartially."


----------



## sptrawler (6 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> Not literally a job though. I think it's more of a sense of "achievement".
> 
> That's why you see self-entitled rich pricks banging for tax cuts, incentives and subsidies. And are proud of it. It's mainly because they believe that they are more deserving, worth more than those underserving druggos and lazy lards.
> 
> ...




Obviously, we are starting to see things differently, so best we let it go.


----------



## IFocus (6 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> But,  we haven't drawn a line in the sand as to what is too far left. Perhaps not economically, but socially, if we haven't already gone past that, we are dangerously close.




The Left are not in power any where FFS the right rule the world .......(left is not Labor or Democrats etc they are neo-liberalism dressed up) 

If they were and IF Antifa  were marching through the streets holding torches I would be extremely worried especially  if the PM said there are some good people........


----------



## SirRumpole (6 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> That's why you see self-entitled rich pricks banging for tax cuts, incentives and subsidies. And are proud of it. It's mainly because they believe that they are more deserving, worth more than those underserving druggos and lazy lards.





I have no problem  with rewarding those who genuinely create employment or giving them a leg up to create successful businesses as long as they do so in an ethical way.

I don't think that blanket business tax cuts are efficient  because they reward the rip off artists along with the decent businesses. Incentives should be targetted towards genuine R&D projects and meaningful business expansion.


----------



## wayneL (6 November 2018)

IFocus said:


> The Left are not in power any where FFS the right rule the world .......(left is not Labor or Democrats etc they are neo-liberalism dressed up)
> 
> If they were and IF Antifa  were marching through the streets holding torches I would be extremely worried especially  if the PM said there are some good people........



Say what? 

Canada
Much of europe etc

But I do agree the pendulum is swinging. 

Its going to other way here though. Next government  eill be culturslly Marxist /postmodernist


----------



## SirRumpole (6 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Canada
> Much of europe etc




How Left are you talking about ?

Trudeau seems pretty Centre to me.

I wouldn't call Merkel Left either.

Corbin is probably the most Left pollie in the world.


----------



## wayneL (6 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> How Left are you talking about ?
> 
> Trudeau seems pretty Centre to me.
> 
> ...



Trudeau is waaaaay left


----------



## basilio (20 November 2018)

It's official.  
* FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as 'extremist group', documents say *
Group is now designated ‘with ties to white nationalism’ according to report produced by Washington law enforcement

Jason Wilson in Portland, Oregon

 @jason_a_w 
Tue 20 Nov 2018 04.00 AEDT   Last modified on Tue 20 Nov 2018 04.34 AEDT

*Shares*
26k




The Vice Media co-founder Gavin McInnes, center, founder of the far-right group Proud Boys, is surrounded by supporters after speaking at a rally in Berkeley, California, on 27 April 2017. Photograph: Marcio José Sánchez/AP
The FBI now classifies the far-right Proud Boys as an “extremist group with ties to white nationalism”, according to a document produced by Washington state law enforcement.

The FBI’s 2018 designation of the self-confessed “western chauvinist group” as extremist has not been previously made public.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tion-extremist-group-white-nationalism-report


----------



## sptrawler (20 November 2018)

This is the problem with an action, it can cause an equal and opposite reaction.
There has been a huge push for social, economic and lifestyle changes in the last ten years, maybe too much too quickly. Who knows


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2018)

What rubbish. 

There is nothing extreme except the BS there.


----------



## sptrawler (20 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> What rubbish.
> 
> There is nothing extreme except the BS there.



I'm not saying whether it is true or false, I really don't give a rats.
What I'm saying, is the extreme left has had the floor for the last 10 years, and people are starting to react to it.
They are getting fed up. IMO


----------



## wayneL (21 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not saying whether it is true or false, I really don't give a rats.
> What I'm saying, is the extreme left has had the floor for the last 10 years, and people are starting to react to it.
> They are getting fed up. IMO



I totally agree. I've got center left clients that are totally enraged by the current agenda. I don't like talking politics with clients,  but they bring it up.


----------



## basilio (23 November 2018)

So what does this all mean ?  The whole "quit" story is cracked.  But there was a further relevant observation for us.

_Branches have been established in Israel, Australia and Canada. On Tuesday, the former commander of Australia’s Border Force said the government should refuse McInnes a visa for a planned tour, telling Fairfax media McInnes “presented a greater threat to community safety than some Muslim preachers who have recently been denied visas on character grounds”._

*Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes quits 'extremist' far-right group *
Move comes after the Guardian exclusively revealed that the FBI had categorized group ‘with ties to white nationalism’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/proud-boys-founder-gavin-mcinnes-quits-far-right-group


----------



## wayneL (23 November 2018)

Gavin 'splains how the Proud Boys started. 

An expedient move by Gavin as The Proud Boys transmogrify into something never intended,  but made inevitable as a reaction to the communists.

Things are warming up bas,  as I predicted it would. Ordinary folks are getting extraordinarily sh1tty at the excesses of the extreme left.


----------



## luutzu (23 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> This is the problem with an action, it can cause an equal and opposite reaction.
> There has been a huge push for social, economic and lifestyle changes in the last ten years, maybe too much too quickly. Who knows




I think it's more economic. Social in the sense that White Americans is going to be a minority within 20 years. I think some forecaster put the White population at about 47% by 2045 or so.

But it's the economics that's causing the anger and hatred. 

Paraphrasing Chomsky...

It's perfectly understandable. Life expectancy in the US dropping; the majority of Americans (White and coloured) are doing it tough for at least the past 40 years. They're not seeing their own career/job security, or that of their children, improving.

For the white "natives" who have known and heard of better days before... most poor and working class folks can't really understand why life's getting so tough now. 

Then turning on the "news", the media, pundits, Fox, right wing neo-cons, and now Trump... the blame is pointed directly at other poor struggling, but coloured, people. 

Why is your life and your kids life getting worst? It's the illegals; the immigrants coming in to take jobs away. It's the "refugees" bring their worst kind of people, criminals, gangs... all "invading" us to steal our stuff and get on welfare (that we in the US doesn't give).

Why is the military budgets in the hundreds of billions, over a trillion if you count the other departments that aren't technically "defense"... because we Americans have to to free those ungrateful savages in the Middle East; got to ramp up security at home; militarize the police, surveil every body. etc. 

So life is not getting tougher because every goddam basic need is privatised and priced gouged; not because trillions in subsidies, tax cuts to the rich and corporations... not because fighting imperial war is socialising corporate takeovers of other people's crap while privatising profits to military contractors and arms manufacturers. 

The US gov't and plutocrats better hope the (White) masses doesn't wake up to the scam. 

Much more brutal, totalitarian regimes and empire collapsed in a blink of an eye when the masses got robbed and have nothing else to lose.

With some 60% of the yanks not being able to afford a $1000 emergency... that's not too far from having nothing else to lose.


----------



## wayneL (23 November 2018)

Grasshopper,  though I don't agree with Chomskey on much,  he makes a salient point about what people have to lose. 

We in the west have been pretty pliable, because we have too much to lose... A mortgage,  a leased car,  decent job or business,  kids at private school or whatever.

The risk in rocking the boat is too high. 

**** gets real when people think they have nothing left to lose,  or the reward vastly outweighs the risk.

I see that as things stand,  doing nothing,  acquiescing to the extreme left in fact carries the greatest risk,  and more and more people are realising that. Hence the increasing rise of the right to far right.


----------



## wayneL (23 November 2018)

But,  jeez,  this quote is f***ing ridiculous,  absolutely absurd:



> _McInnes “presented a greater threat to community safety than some Muslim preachers who have recently been denied visas on character grounds”._


----------



## luutzu (23 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Grasshopper,  though I don't agree with Chomskey on much,  he makes a salient point about what people have to lose.
> 
> We in the west have been pretty pliable, because we have too much to lose... A mortgage,  a leased car,  decent job or business,  kids at private school or whatever.
> 
> ...




I don't think there's really a Leftist gov't left in the world Sifu. Maybe... Cuba or Venezuela. And no, Venezuela isn't screwed because it's a "socialist regime". 

I mean, if you look to leaders who are defined as "lefty" in the world today... they're all right-wing, corporate stooge who doesn't mind the gays much, and speak greeny liberal language but their policies are all neo-Con.

Take France's Macron; Trudeau of Canada, or what's his face the current Mayor of NY. 

Trudeau goes along with the country's real political power - fossil fuel corporations and miners. He bail out loss-making oil pipeline etc. etc. then bought one or two back 'cause its owners no longer see profit to be made.

NY just gave Amazon $3B, at least... They had a press conference praising Amazon and Bezos... jobs, jobs, jobs. Here's $3B Mr Bezos, the richest man in the world. 

The period after WWII, as far as I know, was when most Western democracies were leftist. Eisenhower is a heck of a commie socialist compare to the likes of Obama and Clinton.

But yea, with people tied down by debt... the master planners better hope that the ties or strong enough that the plebs are secured and anchored to those million dollar houses and not get smash and too many made homeless or landless by it.

If that happen, a spark and everybody losses everything.


----------



## Knobby22 (23 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Grasshopper,  though I don't agree with Chomskey on much,  he makes a salient point about what people have to lose.
> 
> We in the west have been pretty pliable, because we have too much to lose... A mortgage,  a leased car,  decent job or business,  kids at private school or whatever.
> 
> ...



I agree but see the far left and the far right as being the same on this.
Once you have nothing to lose because the system doesn't help at all you also end making **** real.
e.g. Breaking Bad.


----------



## luutzu (23 November 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> I agree but see the far left and the far right as being the same on this.
> Once you have nothing to lose because the system doesn't help at all you also end making **** real.
> e.g. Breaking Bad.




You defintely do not want to make Mr White angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.


----------



## wayneL (23 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> I don't think there's really a Leftist gov't left in the world Sifu. Maybe... Cuba or Venezuela. And no, Venezuela isn't screwed because it's a "socialist regime".
> 
> I mean, if you look to leaders who are defined as "lefty" in the world today... they're all right-wing, corporate stooge who doesn't mind the gays much, and speak greeny liberal language but their policies are all neo-Con.
> 
> ...



Grasshopper,  the extreme left have been objectively obliterated on the debate of econonics, they are pleading "no contest".

In that sense the left has undeed truly lost and apart from intellectual abberations such as Bernie and Cortez,  nobody is truly fekin stupid enough to propose economic Marxism. 

This is why they (you lot) have switched to *cultural* marxism to expedite an impossible goal of communism. As such,  the komrades have embraced an ideology pretty damned close to fascism... and then have the temerity to accuse true classical liberals of the same. 

Massively profitable companies such as amazon, google,  etc,  are actually products of covert fascism rather than capitalism. They have prospered under the likes of Clinton, Dubya,  and Obama, fascIsts all.

The left-right continuum is in fact broken,  and Trump is in fact,  ideologically an old style Democrat,  Hillarious in fact a corporatist that, economically, would becas home in the more toxic elements of the GOP.

However,  we must look to the more subversive elements... Previously tin hat territory that proves to be true,  the long match through the institutions,  Fabian gradualism etc.

The current cold war is about culture,  not economics


----------



## luutzu (23 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Grasshopper,  the extreme left have been objectively obliterated on the debate of econonics, they are pleading "no contest".
> 
> In that sense the left has undeed truly lost and apart from intellectual abberations such as Bernie and Cortez,  nobody is truly fekin stupid enough to propose economic Marxism.
> 
> ...




Keynesian/Marxist economics worked too well. Too well for the plebs and society in general that it's hard to maximise profit margins and carry on imperial wars. 

This lead to, in the 70s, that little known paper by the Business Council of America on "The Crisis of Democracy". Whose main author soon enough became the US Supreme Court Justice. 

Then came Reagan and his nomics. Implementing the strategy as laid out in that paper. 

"cultural" wars, left or right wingers... These are window dressings. The real war has always been class. The ruling elite and its mandarins versus the great unwashed.

Being "democratic", "liberal", enlightened, freedom and all that... western democracies can't talk about class warfare, or dare suggest their rich and ruling elite are the same as the rich and ruling elite of other shades elsewhere throughout the world.

You can't suggest, not on mainstream discussion, that capitalists are anything but great entrepreneurs who only want to bring good thing to life... doing it so well they ought to be rich, obviously. 

It's class, not culture, not race, not religion. Class warfare.

A poor White guy has a lot in common with a poor brown/black/yellow guy. 

A rich guy has a lot in common with other rich guys. 

The only thing the rich and the poor have in common is their hatred for the poor.


----------



## wayneL (23 November 2018)

Keynesian economics?

Give me a break. 

Show a country where the true vine of Keynesianism has ever been implemented,  where,  lassaiz faire(sic), monetism,  Austrianism,  monetism, otherisms or any other politically expedient apostate pork barrelling has not been intertwined with the true vine. 

Pullleeeez. 

I coined a term some years ago which,  distressingly, was never taken up. 

"Frankenomics",  that's what we have my schistocercian friend.


----------



## luutzu (23 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Keynesian economics?
> 
> Give me a break.
> 
> ...




FDR implemented it; Hitler accidentally got into it through the rearming, war machining of Germany. 

The comrades in Beijing are implementing it since at least the GFC a decade ago. It's how they managed to put their billions to work; have roads and infrastructured built that reduces the country's energy consumption [waste] by half... and taking on the world, almost literally soon enough.

Europe, the US, and Australia since Rudd have been enjoying Austerity.


----------



## wayneL (23 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> FDR implemented it; Hitler accidentally got into it through the rearming, war machining of Germany.
> 
> The comrades in Beijing are implementing it since at least the GFC a decade ago. It's how they managed to put their billions to work; have roads and infrastructured built that reduces the country's energy consumption [waste] by half... and taking on the world, almost literally soon enough.
> 
> Europe, the US, and Australia since Rudd have been enjoying Austerity.



Oh come on, politically sporadic implemention of Keynes principles when politically expedient via the subterfuge of fiat,  is not Keynesianism.

Keynesianism is a comprehensive economic theory that is employed throughout cycles. 

Please read his thesis, it has never...ever,  been employed _in toto_.


----------



## Knobby22 (25 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Oh come on, politically sporadic implemention of Keynes principles when politically expedient via the subterfuge of fiat,  is not Keynesianism.
> 
> Keynesianism is a comprehensive economic theory that is employed throughout cycles.
> 
> Please read his thesis, it has never...ever,  been employed _in toto_.



Keynesianism involves building large surpluses in good times and spending them on suitable infrastructure during recessions. 

Instead what happens is that the money is used to ensure a bubble is worse or provide ill judged tax cuts and then borrowings are used during recessions to try desperately to keep the economy going. 
Politicians are too useless.


----------



## IFocus (25 November 2018)

"This is why they (you lot) have switched to *cultural* marxism to expedite an impossible goal of communism."


Wayne, I just cringe when I read this.


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2018)

IFocus said:


> "This is why they (you lot) have switched to *cultural* marxism to expedite an impossible goal of communism."
> 
> 
> Wayne, I just cringe when I read this.



I spend half my waking day cringeing, bro.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 November 2018)

IFocus said:


> "This is why they (you lot) have switched to *cultural* marxism to expedite an impossible goal of communism."




Anyone who considers posters on this forum to be "cultural marxists" really should think again.

I've not seen anything particularly Left of middle here. Maybe wayne could give a few examples of cultural Marxism espoused by members of this forum ?


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Anyone who considers posters on this forum to be "cultural marxists" really should think again.
> 
> I've not seen anything particularly Left of middle here. Maybe wayne could give a few examples of cultural Marxism espoused by members of this forum ?



Bas,  extreme gender,  and sexuality agenda,  unworkable climate ideology. 

Implied I am a Nazi. 

Classic stuff,  intersectional identity politics.


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2018)

Here y'are bas,  McGuinness responds


----------



## Caveman (27 November 2018)

If he is going to go to an event armed, to promote western values shouldn't he at least take a broadsword?
Didn't his Scottish parents tell him that his ancestors used a claymore instead of samurai swords?


----------



## wayneL (27 November 2018)

Yeah bloody cultural appropriation that.


----------



## luutzu (27 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> Bas,  extreme gender,  and sexuality agenda,  unworkable climate ideology.
> 
> Implied I am a Nazi.
> 
> Classic stuff,  intersectional identity politics.




Wanting social equality, concern for the environment we all live and breathe in... that's too ideological? 

I personally admire people who gives a fark though.


----------



## wayneL (27 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> Wanting social equality, concern for the environment we all live and breathe in... that's too ideological?
> 
> I personally admire people who gives a fark though.



Virtuous deeds vs Virtue Signalling, Grasshopper. 

I prefer to just actually give a fark through actions, rather than trying to tell everyone how much of a fark I give (and not necessarily delivering)

For instance,  there is that reasrch I posted that showed skeptics were more likely to reduce their emmisions than alarmists. 

Leonardo di Caprio anyone? 

And you see, bas spouts equality but is really playing identity politics which creates division.

Ask him about white privilege for instance.


----------



## basilio (7 January 2019)

*Decrypting the Alt-Right: How to Recognize a F@scist | *
As we digest fights on St Kilda beach where the United Patriots made their stand, lets have a good hard look at  the messages, strategies and intention of the Alt Right.


----------



## wayneL (7 January 2019)

What a load of old Cobblers basilio.


----------



## Darc Knight (7 January 2019)

So I just wasted five minutes of my life - took a look at a promo vid of these "Proud Boys". So they are a far right group who attends political rallies just to inflict voilence and mayhem? Geez, they'd get their arses handed to them here in Australia.

And who said their initiation ceremony consisted of one member being beaten up by the whole gang? Looked like schoolboys not trained Fighters.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> So I just wasted five minutes of my life - took a look at a promo vid of these "Proud Boys". So they are a far right group who attends political rallies just to inflict voilence and mayhem? Geez, they'd get their arses handed to them here in Australia.
> 
> And who said their initiation ceremony consisted of one member being beaten up by the whole gang? Looked like schoolboys not trained Fighters.




You have to realise, alt left, are just as bad as alt right. 
Luckily in Australia, we tend to be just slightly left of centre and just slightly right.
All the gung ho ones, get a weird look, from the 'normal' people in Australia.
Most of the hype is imported from overseas postings, to further the slightly lefts campaign.
I noticed in one of the newspapers, that they want to introduce gender awareness classes.
Well at last they have found something, to replace maths, english and science. LOL

People complain we are racing to the bottom with wages, is there any wonder?
Why the hell would you start a business here? Dearest power, and an education system that is heading down, god knows what people are thinking about PC left wing madness.
It has to end in disaster. IMO
When your grade 2 grandson comes home with a report that says, does not understand the concept of division and multiplication, you have to ask who wrote that the parent or the teacher?
The other grandson 3 years old going into public school kindy this year, "could you please teach the child to spell their name" ? I guess then that gives more time for gender awareness.
" Australia, your up to your ankles in it".


----------



## Darc Knight (7 January 2019)

The sad part is I think we are as Chris Richardson said "in a slow burn, and eventually things are gonna get very bad before we listen". 
Let's hope ScoMo or Bill don't go too far either left or right but can right HMAS Australia.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> The sad part is I think we are as Chris Richardson said "in a slow burn, and eventually things are gonna get very bad before we listen".
> Let's hope ScoMo or Bill don't go too far either left or right but can right HMAS Australia.



IMO Australia isn't far off an even keel, I think as you say, the last thing they need is to take a radical lurch one way or the other.
ATM the left has got way too much momentum, they need to try and stop changing the World, in the next 10 minutes.
All it will do is cause an equal and opposite reaction, when it falls on its ar$e, the momentum is moving, technology is improving.
It is just a matter of keeping change, in phase with the real World realities of what can be changed, in a realistic time frame.


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## Darc Knight (7 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> You have to realise, alt left, are just as bad as alt right.
> Luckily in Australia, we tend to be just slightly left of centre and just slightly right.
> All the gung ho ones, get a weird look, from the 'normal' people in Australia.
> Most of the hype is imported from overseas postings, to further the slightly lefts campaign.
> ...




Homer, you're a Man of the World, sailed the seven seas, had a woman in every port. How do we tell what gender we are? When I was a kid boys parted their hair on the left, girls on the right - that's how you'd tell. Not sure nowadays! How do we tell what gender we are?


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## sptrawler (7 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Homer, you're a Man of the World, sailed the seven seas, had a woman in every port. How do we tell what gender we are? When I was a kid boys parted their hair on the left, girls on the right - that's how you'd tell. Not sure nowadays! How do we tell what gender we are?



Well I suppose we get the kids to cross dress at school, and see what they like wearing.


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## Smurf1976 (8 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> IMO Australia isn't far off an even keel, I think as you say, the last thing they need is to take a radical lurch one way or the other.
> ATM the left has got way too much momentum, they need to try and stop changing the World, in the next 10 minutes.



There are many "left" causes I'm fine with and have long thought they took / are taking far too long to resolve. If it was up to me I'd have had gay marriage and euthanasia sorted 25 years ago, I never did follow the "anti" argument really. If two people are in love then that's better than many. If someone's terminally ill and in pain then why make them suffer?

On the other hand gender is like age. It's a matter of fact not something you choose which you want to be today. Suggesting people ought to choose whatever age and/or gender they consider themselves to be is a bit like letting history teachers decide who started WW2 and claiming it was Donald Trump. Facts are facts, you don't get to choose them. If you're a 30 year old male then you're a 30 year old male. Have surgery if you want to change gender but nothing will change your date of birth since that's an historical fact.

Meanwhile we've got buildings cracking up, ~3 weeks' worth of fuel in stock when it should be 3 moths, wages aren't keeping up with living costs, nobody under age 30 has seen the ASX reach new highs in their adult lifetime, there's people aged over 80 lying on the floor in hospitals in WA because there aren't enough beds and so on. You know, real problems that are either affecting ordinary people right now or could stuff the whole country if supplies stop. 

Just my


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## SirRumpole (8 January 2019)

One would hope that the Opal tower fiasco wouldn't be political, but it does have the political flavour of "self regulation" by business of themselves as trumpeted by the Right vs proper regulation and monitoring of business by government that the Left favours.

Self regulation of any business sector has never worked in my view, whether it be banks, aged care, financial advisors, second hand cars or the building industry, and one wonders just how many more Opal towers there are in this country ready to crack up as well as how many disasters there are in aged care and other industries ready to be uncovered by Royal Commissions.


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## PZ99 (8 January 2019)

Alt-right Mark Latham made the Opal tower political citing population growth.

It's a tenuous link but someone's gotta do it


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## Bill M (8 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> There are many "left" causes I'm fine with and have long thought they took / are taking far too long to resolve. If it was up to me I'd have had gay marriage and euthanasia sorted 25 years ago, I never did follow the "anti" argument really. If two people are in love then that's better than many. If someone's terminally ill and in pain then why make them suffer?
> 
> On the other hand gender is like age. It's a matter of fact not something you choose which you want to be today. Suggesting people ought to choose whatever age and/or gender they consider themselves to be is a bit like letting history teachers decide who started WW2 and claiming it was Donald Trump. Facts are facts, you don't get to choose them. If you're a 30 year old male then you're a 30 year old male. Have surgery if you want to change gender but nothing will change your date of birth since that's an historical fact.
> 
> ...



I am glad there are some reasonable people here on ASF. We have so much that needs fixing here in this country just like you have mentioned. But all we have is bickering politicians who do nothing and waste tax payers money doing stupid things like attending neo nazi meetings and stirring up even more trouble. At this stage of my life I have never ever seen such a grubby lot politicians ever. We need some serious change for the better. Left, right I don't care just someone decent enough who can really lead the country for all the people.


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## Darc Knight (8 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Alt-right Mark Latham made the Opal tower political citing population growth.
> 
> It's a tenuous link but someone's gotta do it




Steve Price asked Mark Latham if he and David Leyonhjelm had a falling out, leading to Latham quitting the Social Democrats and joining One Nation. Latham spewed PR B.S. "no falling out or anything". Less than a minute later during same interview Latham is calling David Leyonhjelm "kooky" with strange ideas


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## SirRumpole (8 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Steve Price asked Mark Latham if he and David Leyonhjelm had a falling out, leading to Latham quitting the Social Democrats and joining One Nation. Latham spewed PR B.S. "no falling out or anything". Less than a minute later during same interview Latham is calling David Leyonhjelm "kooky" with strange ideas




Leyonhjelm has seen the writing on the wall for him Federally and has quit the Senate to run in the NSW election.

I don't like his chances much there either.


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## PZ99 (8 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Steve Price asked Mark Latham if he and David Leyonhjelm had a falling out, leading to Latham quitting the Social Democrats and joining One Nation. Latham spewed PR B.S. "no falling out or anything". Less than a minute later during same interview Latham is calling David Leyonhjelm "kooky" with strange ideas



You think that's bad. Yesterday Latham put up One Nations' values as akin to 80's Labor.


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## Darc Knight (8 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Leyonhjelm has seen the writing on the wall for him Federally and has quit the Senate to run in the NSW election.
> 
> I don't like his chances much there either.




Heard on the wireless Leyonhjelm got elected to the Fed Senate with close to 3% of the vote. To win a seat in NSW Senate you only need around 2%. I assume that's way all those smaller parties run candidates there.


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