# Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?



## Sean K (19 January 2011)

Alcohol and tobacco are fine, yet presently they cause the most physical and mental damage to humans of any drug. Perhaps the biggest killers of humans on the planet, except for war.

Ecstasy and marijuana don't seem to do much damage, but because of illegality and limited use the potential damage is unknown.

Alcohol and tobacco are massive earners for corporations.

Ecstasy and marijuana only make money for underground drug cartels.

Some are legal.

Some are not.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 January 2011)

kennas said:


> Alcohol and tobacco are fine, yet presently they cause the most physical and mental damage to humans of any drug. Perhaps the biggest killers of humans on the planet, except for war.
> 
> Ecstasy and marijuana don't seem to do much damage, but because of illegality and limited use the potential damage is unknown.
> 
> ...




I know someone who resembles me who's had em all.

Legalise the whole kit and caboodle.

They are not as good as people make out.

gg


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## Sean K (19 January 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I know someone who resembles me who's had em all.
> 
> Legalise the whole kit and caboodle.
> 
> ...



I've seen and heard different stories.

I've witnessed people chain smoking for no real apparent gain. Nicotine is such an insidious drug that it doesn't give you a recognisable high but traps you nonetheless. 

A quiet drink is quite nice but I've also seen drunken fights, heard about alcohol related domestic violence, and what is the road toll associated with drink driving?

I've also witnessed people on all sorts of stuff being extremely sociable, happy, totally content, and entirely relaxed.

Objectively assessing the overall social situation we have in regards to all available drugs vexes me.

I'm vexed...


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## Julia (19 January 2011)

So what would you like to see legal and what not, Kennas?

If we would all like to see our cares dissipate amongst the delicious haze of morphine, shall we all just line up for our share?

Ditto heroin, cocaine, whatever you like?


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## satanoperca (20 January 2011)

Wow a topic I have experience in.

Dope, like all things in moderation great but it can become habitual and not such a good thing. Given the amount of people who consume, why not produce it like any other commodity, tax the crap out of and stop wasting police resources policing it. Dont see to many stoners wanting to pick fights, most are happy to sit on the couch.

Herion, in it pure form has no long lasting detrimental effects on health, unfortunately it is rarely pure. Would rather see it somehow legalized, the cost to the community due to addicts robbing and theiving is to great. A drug that the majority should stay way clear of due to its addictivness. Cannot remember the stats but it is only the minority of herion users that become full blown addicts.

Ectasy - if it is good quality you will not find a better feeling. The book, Brave New World by Aldous Leonard Huxley describes a very similar drug. Unfortunately what is around today is not MDMA. If you can find the stuff, go home to your lover, take a small amount and have the most wonderful sex you have ever had in your life.

Speed/Meth. Society can live without it.

Coke, not my thing, have no opinion.

Acid, only for the strong mind, but if you wish to see the world in a different light and are with trusted friends it is a trip. Going to the Zoo on it and talking to the animals is a blast.

Tobacco - ban it

Alcohol - all the above is less harmful to ones self and society.

How to move forward on legalisation of drugs, no idea, maybe give everyone a sample and see what they say.

Cheers


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## white_goodman (20 January 2011)

trust the great man himself to have the answer...


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## Mofra (20 January 2011)

Julia said:


> So what would you like to see legal and what not, Kennas?
> 
> If we would all like to see our cares dissipate amongst the delicious haze of morphine, shall we all just line up for our share?
> 
> Ditto heroin, cocaine, whatever you like?



Decriminalisation does not necessarily equate to an increase in usage. The Scandinavian experience has been many drugs declining in usage once they become decriminalised.

Illicit substances are so easy to obtain nowadays anyway, the effect (IMO) on the populace decriminalisation will have is:
a. Less side effects due to a purer product
b. Those who have substance abuse problems will be treated for thsoe problems, not the associated criminality that accompanies the majority of those with a problem
c. A huge boost to the taxpayer in the form of levies on said substances, and
d. Our police force and criminal justice system will be able to allocate their resources to other problems in society, hopefully making law enforecement more effective

I doubt most politicians could publically state a position in favour of decriminalisation, given the inevitable conservative backlash that would accompany and statement.


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## sails (20 January 2011)

kennas said:


> ...Ecstasy and marijuana don't seem to do much damage, but because of illegality and limited use the potential damage is unknown...




Yes, I have often wondered why alcohol and smokes are legal and when they can be as damaging to the body as those that are illegal.  It seems to be well established now that a little wine is actually good for the body, but it's the excesses and subsequent addictions that can be so damaging.

I think marijuana does do more damage than people think.  I believe it's the psychotic effect from regular use that is so dangerous and insidious, IMO.  Here is a blog where people have recorded their withdrawal symptoms.  Pretty rough to come off it...  http://addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com/2007/10/marijuana-withdrawal.html


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## prawn_86 (20 January 2011)

Julia said:


> So what would you like to see legal and what not, Kennas?
> 
> If we would all like to see our cares dissipate amongst the delicious haze of morphine, shall we all just line up for our share?
> 
> Ditto heroin, cocaine, whatever you like?




I would legalise everything. Adults have the right to make their own decisions and if that means getting high on morphine so be it. i know a lot of drug takers that would never do it as IV drugs have a much 'harder' stigma attached to them



Mofra said:


> Decriminalisation does not necessarily equate to an increase in usage. The Scandinavian experience has been many drugs declining in usage once they become decriminalised.




Exactly. Portugual had the same thing. Usuage went down, and those admitting themselves to rehab went up. It was almost as though when it became legal people were more likely to seek help as they would not be looked down upon by society



sails said:


> Yes, I have often wondered why alcohol and smokes are legal and when they can be as damaging to the body as those that are illegal.  It seems to be well established now that a little wine is actually good for the body, but it's the excesses and subsequent addictions that can be so damaging.




Alcohol and tobacco are legal due to historic reasons only and consistent lobbying. If one of them was 'invented' today no way it would be legal.

I have also been informed that MDMA (in its pure form) is one of the best experiences in life and this informant encourages everyone who can get hold of relatively pure stuff to try it and put on some of your favourite music with your favourite friends...


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## Mofra (20 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> I have also been informed that MDMA (in its pure form) is one of the best experiences in life and this informant encourages everyone who can get hold of relatively pure stuff to try it and put on some of your favourite music with your favourite friends...



Most pills sold in Australia at the moment contain little/no MDMA - all sorts of stuff finds its way into them. Government controlled (and profitted ) supply would change.

Excessive abuse of MDMA (like any drug) can have long term effects - the sacs of fluid in the brain have been known to expand after prolonged abuse (and we're talking hard-core ravers using it heavily, weekly, for years). It can also effect the way the brain elicits mood regulation - again, we're talking about effects that are less serious than the equivalent alcohol-related effects.


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## prawn_86 (20 January 2011)

Mofra said:


> Most pills sold in Australia at the moment contain little/no MDMA - all sorts of stuff finds its way into them. Government controlled (and profitted ) supply would change.




Agreed on both counts, however in certain circles there is a limited supply of pure molly which is mind blowing. A lot of the pills now contain MDxx (MDEA, MDMx etc etc) which are all similar analouges, but have slightly different effects. Providing you know what you are getting and what effect each type has then thats ok. What is dangerous is when dealers sell it as something its not.



Mofra said:


> Excessive abuse of MDMA (like any drug) can have long term effects - the sacs of fluid in the brain have been known to expand after prolonged abuse (and we're talking hard-core ravers using it heavily, weekly, for years). It can also effect the way the brain elicits mood regulation - again, we're talking about effects that are less serious than the equivalent alcohol-related effects.




Yes, it takes the brain about 7 - 10 days to restore the seratonin levels to normal after a night of using MDMA. If you use again within this period the high will not be as good and that is when they suspect the damage occurs as your brain has not had time to fully replenish itself so to speak.

Taking the appropriate vitamins & minerals can help aid this recovery although im not aware of many actual studies focusing on this area.

Interesting also to see that MDMA (pure stuff produced by pharma co's) has been approved for trials for post traumatic stress disorders (mainly war vets) in Israel, Canada and Switzerland.


All this is only what has been relayed to me by others as I have no intention of breaking the glorious laws of this country


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## sails (20 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> ...Yes, it takes the brain about 7 - 10 days to restore the seratonin levels to normal after a night of using MDMA. If you use again within this period the high will not be as good and that is when they suspect the damage occurs as your brain has not had time to fully replenish itself so to speak.
> 
> Taking the appropriate vitamins & minerals can help aid this recovery although im not aware of many actual studies focusing on this area....




I don't understand otherwise healthy people taking the risk of upsetting normal brain processes for a possible short term pleasure?  We are only given one brain to last us a life time and mental impairment is a terrible thing.



prawn_86 said:


> ]Interesting also to see that MDMA (pure stuff produced by pharma co's) has been approved for trials for post traumatic stress disorders (mainly war vets) in Israel, Canada and Switzerland.




If that's a possible theraputic use, that's one thing.  But to use this on an otherwise healthy brain seems unbelievable...


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## sails (20 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> I would legalise everything. Adults have the right to make their own decisions and if that means getting high on morphine so be it. i know a lot of drug takers that would never do it as IV drugs have a much 'harder' stigma attached to them...




Agree that adults have the right to make their own decisions provided it doesn't affect anyone else.  But perhaps "adults" should think about what will happen when these sorts of drugs have rendered their brains all but useless.  Who should pick up the bill for their care?  What about family who have not participated in drug use but then find themselves carers of those who have?


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## sinner (20 January 2011)

Very interesting timing in this thread.

A group of friends and I are currently writing submissions for the Government against their latest round of idiotic policy attempts to make everything illegal.

We have started a campaign sponsorship request on GetUp to try and leverage their power on this issue.

I have been canvassing the link all day, across many forums, but originally decided not to post it to ASF because I thought the reaction would be mostly negative.

To be clear, the new "model schedules" are even more broad and more vague than the last set. They are attempting to schedule all plants containing the chemical "DMT" (an already illegal substance), which in essence, outlaws the plant that is our national emblem! I have seen other plants listed on the new model schedule growing over grannys fences and in front of police stations.

Under these proposals, picking a single leaf from this Wattle would technically carry the same prosecution penalty as an equivalent weight in heroin.

If you want to help out you can vote for the GetUp campaign suggestion here:
http://suggest.getup.org.au/forums/...deral-illegalisation-of-thousands-o?ref=title

If you have any scientific, medical or social professional experience with drugs/plants then please write a submission directly to the Government (you can PM me for more info in this regard).

In the page is also included the link to the Govs new consultation proposal.


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## prawn_86 (20 January 2011)

sails said:


> I don't understand otherwise healthy people taking the risk of upsetting normal brain processes for a possible short term pleasure?  We are only given one brain to last us a life time and mental impairment is a terrible thing.
> 
> If that's a possible theraputic use, that's one thing.  But to use this on an otherwise healthy brain seems unbelievable...




To me smoking seems unbelievable, but plenty of people do it.

You could live a 'clean & pure' life and still drop dead at an early age, or be killed in a car crash etc etc. Life is to be enjoyed and to be honest if you are slightly careful the risks are extremely minimal (no more risk than being an innocent bystander in a bar fight). Have a look at some studies and you will see the main damage comes from impurities, rather than the actual active drug that people are seeking.

You would be surprised by the amount of people that take illegal drugs. I know plenty of drs, dentists, lawyers etc etc who do it and no-one would know the difference. I guess its a form of escapism


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## Sean K (20 January 2011)

I do wonder if we started from scratch but with full understanding of each drugs physical and social effects would we end up with a different set of laws?

I think anything that causes significant physical damage and therefore cost to the individual, family and friends, and community would be on the outer.

Anything that causes significant social problems or takes people out of society would have to go.

So, ban everything?

Or, maybe any drug in moderation and controlled is OK? 

If it can be controlled and taken in moderation...


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## DB008 (20 January 2011)

I had this conversation with someone very recently.

My point of view, as having prohibition relating to Alcohol in the 1920's/USA, if it's not working, take a different approach. 


Legalise all drugs

The tax win-fall that the Gov will receive will easily pay for mental health x10 etc etc. 50% profit by law goes towards the health system

It will put an end to underworld garbage that is going on

Have a 'education revolution' about drugs and implement a drug harm minimization policy that all teenagers must do while at school, before year 10

Put strict laws for driving under the influence, very strict!


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## Sean K (20 January 2011)

I started thinking about this topic more and more recently due to what's going on in Mexico. 30,000 plus have been killed in the past 4 years or so. It won't stop any time soon while the demand is there and they can provide the product.


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## prawn_86 (20 January 2011)

kennas said:


> I started thinking about this topic more and more recently due to what's going on in Mexico. 30,000 plus have been killed in the past 4 years or so. It won't stop any time soon while the demand is there and they can provide the product.




Im annoyed i cant remember where i saw it but i came across some interesting financial arguments against the legalisation theory. Here they are as i remember them:

1. A black market means cash, cash means purchases which in turns means the economy is stimulated. Drug dealers et al do tend to live it large so they spend their money quickly in a llot of circumstances
2. Employment. Many people are employed/hired through the druug trade
3. Purchases. Legal products need to be purchased in order to make illegal drugs, once again stimulating the economy.

The first one was the main point in that the billions of dollars floating around eventually filter back into the economy anyway and if the gov was to legalise then these billions (possibly more than what they could make via taxation) of dollars would dissappear


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## Julia (20 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> You could live a 'clean & pure' life and still drop dead at an early age, or be killed in a car crash etc etc.



Yes, but why would you want to reduce your chances by using substances that are likely to further reduce your lifespan?

You all go on about how there are not the stats which show illicit drugs to be more harmful than legal drugs.  Have you for a moment considered that this might be because a small proportion of the population uses illicit drugs and therefore quite obviously the stats will be skewed accordingly.

If any comparative studies have been done over a lifetime considering the differences in health outcomes betwen those who have used e.g. alcohol and those who have used illegal drugs, I'd be interested for you to offer these.


Plus when someone dies, who is going to front up and say 'well, Mr Coroner, I think it might have something to do with all the heroin, cocaine, et al he has pushed into his veins for dozens of years'?

Are you able to quote controlled, randomised, double blind,  longitudinal trials which adequately demonstrate that the long term use of the above drugs do not have a deleterious effect?  



> Life is to be enjoyed and to be honest if you are slightly careful the risks are extremely minimal (no more risk than being an innocent bystander in a bar fight).



Really?   I'm sure you will have no problem in providing proof of the above statement.
i.e. a controlled trial showing no more risk in filling your veins with heroin than happening to witness a bar fight.



> Have a look at some studies and you will see the main damage comes from impurities, rather than the actual active drug that people are seeking.



Quite obviously stuffing your blood supply with the variously horrible substances which the main drug is cut with is going to be potentially lethal, so why in the name of god would you do it???

Is your life so pathetically dull and boring, so lacking in stimulation, that you have to create an artificial euphoria from some synthetic compound?   




> You would be surprised by the amount of people that take illegal drugs. I know plenty of drs, dentists, lawyers etc etc who do it and no-one would know the difference. I guess its a form of escapism



So what if so called professional people take drugs?  Why are you presenting this sad fact as something that you seem to feel legitimises their use?

How do you know what the eventual outcomes have been or will be for these people?

Doctors and dentists, e.g. have no need to access 'illicit' supplies of impure drugs.
They can, and do, very easily access the most pure pharmacological form of whatever they want.  All it takes is the dishonesty and lack of ethics to dole out prescriptions for patients who never receive the drugs.  Many a drug habit  has been so sustained for many, many years.  I hardly think your pointing to these people's drug habits as validity for your argument has the slightest drop of merit.  They derive their drugs by means every bit as criminal as the pushers.

And further, I can tell you that I've seen the results of this drug use and the eventual outcome is too horrible to describe here.

But, hey, just rock on stuffing your minds and bodies with rubbish.  I expect the great Australian medical system will be there for you when you either overdose or experience the inevitable long term results of such abuse.


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## orr (20 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Yes, but why would you want to reduce your chances by using substances that are likely to further reduce your lifespan?
> 
> You all go on about how there are not the stats which show illicit drugs to be more harmful than legal drugs.  Have you for a moment considered that this might be because a small proportion of the population uses illicit drugs and therefore quite obviously the stats will be skewed accordingly.
> 
> ...




From the Portugese experence drug decrimialisation has been a success on every social indicater. Probably most importantly Lower over all usage by youth and later take up.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

http://www.economist.com/node/14309861

http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf

As a tangental aside;
Narrated by Jack Thomson the 1994 ABC documentry "Billion Dollar Crop " can now be viewed on youtube in 5 parts, the VHS cost me $120 back then. Spend an Hour to understand Industrial HEMP...


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## tothemax6 (21 January 2011)

Really, we want to maximize freedom in society, since the ideal society has 100% freedom, not 90% freedom. Freedom of course, being the ability to pursue any course of action you wish to take, so long as it does not violate any one elses rights.

However, it is well known that some drugs cause brain damage and behavioral modifications in people, which cause them to commit crimes. Hence it can be considered that when someone takes these drugs, he is deliberately pursuing an action conducive to crime. This is still considered violation of others rights, since 'safety from violation' is included. I.e. someone firing a machine gun in the direction of a city is still violating rights, even if he hits no one.
Secondly, we have the addiction issue. When somebody takes an addictive hard drug, it effectively causes a form of brain damage, which forces a prolonged drugged-out state due to the constant re-taking of the drug ('the addiction'). The person has effectively destroyed their rationality, and hence could be considered to be 'insane'. The question then is, 'what does self-induced insanity come under in terms of the law?'. Do we submit them to the asylum after they take their first hit, when they have fully entered the addiction, when they have committed a crime to pay for the drugs etc.

Really, the current setup pragmatically deals with this situation, albeit without a strong legalistic basis, and without good consistency (i.e. marijuana should probably be legalized if alcohol is).


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## prawn_86 (21 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Yes, but why would you want to reduce your chances by using substances that are likely to further reduce your lifespan?




Because it's enjoyable. 



> You all go on about how there are not the stats which show illicit drugs to be more harmful than legal drugs.  Have you for a moment considered that this might be because a small proportion of the population uses illicit drugs and therefore quite obviously the stats will be skewed accordingly.
> 
> If any comparative studies have been done over a lifetime considering the differences in health outcomes betwen those who have used e.g. alcohol and those who have used illegal drugs, I'd be interested for you to offer these.




I too would love to see a study like this, but due to illegality it can't be done unfortunately.




> Are you able to quote controlled, randomised, double blind,  longitudinal trials which adequately demonstrate that the long term use of the above drugs do not have a deleterious effect?




As above. I wish i could.




> Quite obviously stuffing your blood supply with the variously horrible substances which the main drug is cut with is going to be potentially lethal, so why in the name of god would you do it???




Think about it from a business perspective. If all drugs were cut with lethal 'fillers' then the suppliers would have no customers left. It is in their best interest to use neutral fillers, but occasionally bad combintations do come along. This is where harm minimisation websites come into play and the danger would be removed if legalised.



> Is your life so pathetically dull and boring, so lacking in stimulation, that you have to create an artificial euphoria from some synthetic compound?




So based on this comment i assume you never drink and have never been drunk in your life? If not, thats all well and good, but I like to think that I am more open minded to let people do what they want and not judge providing they are not harming others.

I have an amazing life and the euphoria generated from certain drugs is not artifical it is merely heightened. If you take drugs when in a bad mood they will make you feel even worse and vice versa for a good mood.




> So what if so called professional people take drugs?  Why are you presenting this sad fact as something that you seem to feel legitimises their use?
> 
> Doctors and dentists, e.g. have no need to access 'illicit' supplies of impure drugs.
> They can, and do, very easily access the most pure pharmacological form of whatever they want.  All it takes is the dishonesty and lack of ethics to dole out prescriptions for patients who never receive the drugs.  Many a drug habit  has been so sustained for many, many years.  I hardly think your pointing to these people's drug habits as validity for your argument has the slightest drop of merit.  They derive their drugs by means every bit as criminal as the pushers.




My point is that people are going to do it, no matter what the government says. I can think of at least 20 dr's, dentists, lawyers, bankers etc who use more than say 3 times a year. Does the government really want these people to have their careers severely thrown off track if they were ever to get a conviction? (which is unlikely as counselling is usually offered for small possession amounts)

And as an anecdotal studie of the 300 people in my high school class, 250 people in my college year and 50 people in my workforce i would say minimum 40% have tried an illegal substance and at least 20% of the 600 would use illegal substances more than twice a year.

Fact is its here to stay and we may as well look at ways of harm minimisation as opposed to a blinkered view of 'drugs are bad' and locking people up for petty possesion.


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## sails (21 January 2011)

Perhaps this thread explains why mental illness and depression is on the rise and will likely be in epidemic proportions in the future.

The sad thing with mental illness is that the sufferer is not necessarily aware there is anything wrong or that anything has changed.  It's the family and those close to them that suffer.

I believe these mind altering drugs (marijuana included) have the potential to slowly destruct the brain.  It is usually not noticed by the user.  

Perhaps go cold turkey for a while to find out what damage it is doing to your body and mind.   If these drugs were as harmless as has been suggested here, then why is withdrawal such a difficult thing - both physically and mentally?

I wonder if the next generation will so despise their parents stupidity that they won't touch any of this damaging stuff.


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## Mofra (21 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Yes, but why would you want to reduce your chances by using substances that are likely to further reduce your lifespan?



Yet we allow crap like McDonalds to set up shop on every street corner?
Teh average diet represents a far greater killer than substance abuse IMO.



Julia said:


> You all go on about how there are not the stats which show illicit drugs to be more harmful than legal drugs.  Have you for a moment considered that this might be because a small proportion of the population uses illicit drugs and therefore quite obviously the stats will be skewed accordingly.



As a proportion this is also the case in every study I've seen, with the exception of the mental damage long term Ice users suffer. 
Alcohol is one of the few (only?) drugs that attacks every cell in the body.

The cultural bias of having alcohol as a legal drug for decades does not change the safety (or lack thereof) of various substances - if Marijuana was legal and alcohol was illegal, we'd probably have the same people arguing the same case for alcohol remaining illegal.


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## prawn_86 (21 January 2011)

sails said:


> Perhaps go cold turkey for a while to find out what damage it is doing to your body and mind.   If these drugs were as harmless as has been suggested here, then why is withdrawal such a difficult thing - both physically and mentally?




Same as any drug. If it doesnt form a habit then going without doesnt cause a problem. 

Same as drinking, sometimes i think "oh i feel like a beer" but if i know i shouldnt then i dont have one.

Withdrawal is generally only a problem when addiction has formed and MDMA, cocaine and a host of other synthetic drugs have no active compound specifically designed to cause addiction (such as nicotine is), it is the high/rush that people get addicted to, not the drug itself.


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## sails (21 January 2011)

Mofra said:


> Yet we allow crap like McDonalds to set up shop on every street corner?
> Teh average diet represents a far greater killer than substance abuse IMO.
> 
> 
> ...




Agree, Mofra, including your mention of takeaway food that should only be used as an occasional treat, IMO.  To replace otherwise healthy meals completely with takeaway food is possibly a recipe for major health problems later in life caused by nutitional deficiencies.

It is clear that the legal or illegal status of a harmful substance makes little differene to consumption.  Perhaps the only thing by being illegal gives customs and police the ability to try and prevent these drugs from reaching out streets.  However, perhaps confiscated drugs are factored into the price, so it probably makes little difference.  Hopefully the risk of imprisonment for dealers might provide some deterrant.




prawn_86 said:


> ...Withdrawal is generally only a problem when addiction has formed and MDMA, cocaine and a host of other synthetic drugs have no active compound specifically designed to cause addiction (such as nicotine is), it is the *high/rush that people get addicted to, not the drug itself*.




Prawn, if it were no more than the high/rush that is addictive, there would be no physical or psychotic effects during withdrawal.  These effects can be incredibly significant during withdrawal.

Perhaps you only have occasional use (at this stage), but I think your statement generally shows lack of experience in the real world...


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## Mofra (21 January 2011)

sails said:


> Agree, Mofra, including your mention of takeaway food that should only be used as an occasional treat, IMO.  To replace otherwise healthy meals completely with takeaway food is possibly a recipe for major health problems later in life caused by nutitional deficiencies.



It also brings up the point of usage - I know of many people who may take a pill or have a joint 4-5 times a year, as many healthy people see junk food as only an occasional treat. T
here are people that understand the word moderation and are careful with their own health - it's just a shame that personal responsibility is a concept that is being increasingly eroded from modern life (and I do have to wonder how the growing litigious nature of modern society is playing a part in this).


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## prawn_86 (21 January 2011)

sails said:


> Prawn, if it were no more than the high/rush that is addictive, there would be no physical or psychotic effects during withdrawal.  These effects can be incredibly significant during withdrawal.
> 
> Perhaps you only have occasional use (at this stage), but I think your statement generally shows lack of experience in the real world...




My full quote shows the drugs i was referring to. I know there are plenty of other drugs that do have 'physically' addictive compounds, but if you research you will see that MDMA and cocaine in particular do not have anything in them which addicts the body so to speak; it is only the mind that gets addicted to the dopamine/endorphin rush and in this case it simply becomes mind over matter if one wants to stop (admittedly this is something some people struggle with)


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## awg (21 January 2011)

No-one has mentioned magic mushrooms?..they should be made compulsory

Heroin is by far the best treatment for end-stage illness, it is a travesty that it cannot be prescribed.

With regard to marijuana, the current drug-testing regime carried out not only by police on the roadside, and also some employers, has unpleasant implications for users of this substance, as my understanding is it remains detectable for a long time, and being illegal, I dont think the excuse of "but I havent had any today" will wash


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## prawn_86 (21 January 2011)

awg said:


> With regard to marijuana, the current drug-testing regime carried out not only by police on the roadside, and also some employers, has unpleasant implications for users of this substance, as my understanding is it remains detectable for a long time, and being illegal, I dont think the excuse of "but I havent had any today" will wash




Again depends on usage frequeny and volume, but yes it does tend to have a longer half-life than many synthetic compounds. You will find a lot of chemical based drugs tend to be completely out of your system within 48 hrs whereas dope can stay up to a week after a heavy session, as far as i am aware, i am far from an expert


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## Julia (21 January 2011)

awg said:


> Heroin is by far the best treatment for end-stage illness, it is a travesty that it cannot be prescribed.



Agree absolutely.  An alternative that is used is the Brompton Cocktail comprising morphine, cocaine, alcohol or ideally heroin in place of the morphine.


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## Julia (21 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> You could live a 'clean & pure' life and still drop dead at an early age, or be killed in a car crash etc etc. Life is to be enjoyed and to be honest if you are slightly careful the risks are extremely minimal (no more risk than being an innocent bystander in a bar fight). Have a look at some studies and you will see the main damage comes from impurities, rather than the actual active drug that people are seeking.



Still waiting for some substantiation of these claims.  Where do you get your evidence that people using pure drug, e.g. morphine et al, or pharmacologically pure amphetamine, are not going to be damaged?   Have you ever actually known anyone who has demonstrated a couple of decades of such use and shown no adverse health outcomes?  I doubt it.  For a start, you wouldn't even be old enough.




prawn_86 said:


> My point is that people are going to do it, no matter what the government says. I can think of at least 20 dr's, dentists, lawyers, bankers etc who use more than say 3 times a year. Does the government really want these people to have their careers severely thrown off track if they were ever to get a conviction? (which is unlikely as counselling is usually offered for small possession amounts)



Your naivete is probably not unreasonable for your age I suppose.
I'd like to have a video or two of the number of people I' ve known in the above quoted professions who have wrecked their health, marriages and careers through drug use/abuse.

Every single one of them started out using the drug occasionally/socially, or maybe just as an analgesic for that mother of all headaches.



> And as an anecdotal studie of the 300 people in my high school class, 250 people in my college year and 50 people in my workforce i would say minimum 40% have tried an illegal substance and at least 20% of the 600 would use illegal substances more than twice a year.



That's a meaningless comment.  You might just as well offer validation for the widespread use of alcohol:  i.e. everybody uses it.

The only good thing I can think of about all this superficial commentary is that people do tend to grow out of drug use as they mature.  Hopefully you won't do too much damage to yourself in the meantime.

But anyway, as I've previously observed, the good old Australian taxpayer funded health system will be there for you if you find some of your naive assumptions are ill founded.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 January 2011)

Julia, I read a study once, and I don't have it to hand, but the researchers reckoned that up to 30% of all suburbs ingested marijuana at least once weekly.

I'd tend to believe this.

I'll search for it and post it when I find it.

Also someone did a scan of all euro currency in Italy and a huge 60% plus, tested positve.

It makes the argument for legalisation and harm minimisation more imminent.

gg


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## tothemax6 (22 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Still waiting for some substantiation of these claims.  Where do you get your evidence that people using pure drug, e.g. morphine et al, or pharmacologically pure amphetamine, are not going to be damaged?   Have you ever actually known anyone who has demonstrated a couple of decades of such use and shown no adverse health outcomes?  I doubt it.  For a start, you wouldn't even be old enough.



Correct, anyone who has seen a metho will instantly recognize that the person 'looks like they are the walking dead'. No impurities are causing that. Prawn_86 probably needs to see some photos of methos. 


			
				Garpal Gumnut said:
			
		

> Also someone did a scan of all euro currency in Italy and a huge 60% plus, tested positve.



Yeah notes always test positive for cocaine with high frequency. This is because notes both rub together and change hands frequently, the testing is very sensitive, and rolled up notes make for a good snorter of the ol' Nose Candy. 

Anyway, if drugs were legalized, the next thing you would see would be anti-discrimination legislation covering druggos too. After all, it is their life-choice. What gives you the right to refuse to lease them your house, tell your daughter not to date them, or deny them a job at your company? That's discrimination.
It seems that all politics is about nowadays is "how quickly shall we make society worse".

The battle is never about the current issue, it is always about the direction. Every time an inch of ground is given, that becomes the center - to be moved another inch further next time. 

Socially, western society probably peaked somewhere around the late 1800s. In tothemax6s opinion, the bear run has a long way to go.


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## c-unit (22 January 2011)

Julia, you didn't answer Prawn's question about whether you drink or not. If you do, then your arguments against taking drugs for the enjoyment are a little hypocritical I think.

Alcohol is far worse for the body and mind than weed/ecstacy and cocaine. 

For the two years after I turned 18, I was into the rave scene pretty heavily and went to raves most weekends (inner city Melbourne clubs like Bubble and 3d, and the festivals like Defqon). I can say from experience that I never saw one single fight or argument at a rave. Everyone is hugging, dancing, high fiving and having an amazing time. Quite a few are swimming around the room looking like space cadets, but who cares, they aren't harming anybody.

The last few years I've stuck to the more traditional nightclub / bar / pub scene, and the difference is stark. There are punch ons, broken bottles and windows, ambulances, I've had blood splattered over me, it's disgusting. Alcohol is a violence inducing drug.

And in terms of long term effects, how many alco's are there in this country? And how many innocent people are killed because of drink drivers? Why is alcohol legal and weed/eccy's/coke etc not?

Legalise it, regulate it, tax it.


----------



## c-unit (22 January 2011)

Prawn,

I don't agree with those economic arguments against legalisation that you mentioned:



> 1. A black market means cash, cash means purchases which in turns means the economy is stimulated. Drug dealers et al do tend to live it large so they spend their money quickly in a llot of circumstances




That cash previously paid for illegal drugs (and thus going to the big spending drug barons) will now go to new legal drug corporations who will pay cash to employees, creditors and shareholders. 

The difference is that in the legal scenario, cash will be deposited into banks (which is in turn lent to productive businessses), or used to purchase other goods, rather than purchasing weapons, ammo and prossies as in the illegal case.



> 2. Employment. Many people are employed/hired through the druug trade




And the new legalised drug industry can employ those same very people. Zero net change.



> 3. Purchases. Legal products need to be purchased in order to make illegal drugs, once again stimulating the economy.




And those same products will still be purchased by the corporations in producing the drugs legally. Zero net change. 

But otherwise, agree entirely with what you are saying. I get the feeling we are of similar age and beliefs.


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## Logique (22 January 2011)

With you here Kennas and GG.

Nothing stronger than a chilled frosty for me, or an occasional semillon. But all the same, I'd prefer the police to be nabbing petty thieves, housebreakers and road speeders than all this ridiculous and expensive chasing around after green crops grown in someones backyard or roof. 

I think we should learn the lessons of history. Prohibition in the US, and more recently decriminalization in Portugal.

Making everything illegal just subsidizes the lifestyles of crooks. People have always used drugs and always will. In the US, the Prohibition years were an enormous stimulus to organized crime.


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## Sean K (22 January 2011)

*The costs of tobacco, alcohol and illicit drug abuse to Australian society in 2004/05*
by
David J. Collins Macquarie University
and
Helen M. Lapsley
University of Queensland and
University of New South Wales

Alcohol $15.3b
Tobacco $31.4b
Illicit drugs $8.1b

(nearly $4b of the illicit costs were crime related)

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy/publishing.nsf/Content/34F55AF632F67B70CA2573F60005D42B/$File/mono64.pdf

Not sure if this study puts a figure on pain and suffering associated with family and friends losing loved ones from early deaths, injury, jail, etc.

I suppose one question is the % uptake of the pop in comparison to the cost and what if illicit drugs were legal and carefully managed. They are going to offset the figures somewhat.

$30b for tobacco? eeek!


----------



## breaker (22 January 2011)

Reminds me of my father saying "you dont need alcohol to have a good time"


Boy was he wrong


----------



## prawn_86 (22 January 2011)

c-unit said:


> Prawn,
> 
> I don't agree with those economic arguments against legalisation that you mentioned:




I dont necessairly either, it was just a program i saw a while ago (cant remember when you where) mentioning reasons why it didnt make sense to legalise. Shame i dont know what one it was.

PS - to set the record straight for some other members who may have misunderstood:

I am not saying that every illicit drug is not physically addictive. Ones such as MDMA and cocaine are not, yet others such as heroin and ice can cause devastating physical addictions.


----------



## WaveSurfer (22 January 2011)

Logique said:


> Making everything illegal just subsidizes the lifestyles of crooks. People have always used drugs and always will. In the US, the Prohibition years were an enormous stimulus to organized crime.




Exactly. Where there is demand, there's going to be someone trying to make money on the supply.

Demand will never dry up, no matter what. All the professionals and lobbyists can harp on about the pro's and con's forever, make all the laws against it as they see fit, but in the end people will do it regardless of what anyone says or does to stop it.

Right or wrong, people do have the choice to take drugs. Just like they have the choice to steal, rape children or kill people. Just like they have the choice to work or pursue dreams all their life.

My wife is an emergency medicine doc and (quite to my surprise) she is all for the supply of clean substances. I've heard some pretty nasty stories, most of which involved a "bad batch". Imagine what it would be like shafting Ajax or some other nasty chemical up your veins thinking it was smack. That's when they get to hospital and Narcan does squat, then the poor medical professionals are in for a sh*t fight all night trying to work out what the hell else was in the gear. If it were clean, they can deal with the critical issue swiftly and move on to the next person.

Sure there's the social and mental issues, but what about the friggen social and mental issues of life itself. Life can kill your body and mind just as much as drugs do. Most of these naysayers are people with issues themselves and are certainly not perfect advocates of "health". As the WHO defines it:



> Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.




http://www.who.int/about/definition/en/print.html

A complete state of physical, mental and social well-being? Think about it, there ain't a healthy person on this planet! I know a few dope smokers who would say they feel like they're in a complete state of physical, mental and social well-being after a toke. They are very happy, successful and highly intelligent people too. Not the stigmatised "pot head's" you hear about.

I feel like I'm in a complete state of physical, mental and social well-being when I'm sitting down sipping a beer or a dimple after a hard day's work and the kids are in bed. I don't go overboard because I know I have to get up tomorrow and do it all again. I'm usually asleep by the end of my first one anyway lol. I don't do it every night either, most of time I'm way too tired anyway. I don't care what long term effects (if any) it has, it makes me feel good and is my way of coping with the stresses of every day living. I know its effect is reduced if I abuse it anyway.

Who in the world is stupid enough to say you can't do the above with anything to get you over the constant stresses life places you under. I see no harm for moderate use of whatever floats your boat. Abuse it and your life will be tested on the recovery.

Who's to say that the lobbyists against certain things don't have issues themselves, and feel the need to unjustly pursue the integrity of others just to satisfy their own twisted needs.

Always a little more to the picture than one may think.

Do what you want, but don't do it around me - Brett Gurewitz


----------



## WaveSurfer (22 January 2011)

Most appropriate for this thread. Listen to the lyrics and understand what it is asking you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMik0i4ZzpU


----------



## sails (22 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> ...I am not saying that every illicit drug is not physically addictive. Ones such as MDMA and cocaine are not, yet others such as heroin and ice can cause devastating physical addictions.




Not sure that is correct, Prawn...

I googled and found this:



> Cocaine effects are extremely detrimental on the body and the consequences related to cocaine effects can eventually lead to *permanent damage, addiction and death*.




More here: http://www.cocaine-effects.com/

Sounds very risky to me.  I found other sites that also indicated brain damage with the use of cocaine.


----------



## prawn_86 (22 January 2011)

sails said:


> Not sure that is correct, Prawn...
> 
> I googled and found this:
> 
> Sounds very risky to me.  I found other sites that also indicated brain damage with the use of cocaine.




Yes but as i have said it is an addiction to the high not to the drug itself. The drug itself simply causes the high to which people get addicted.


----------



## Logique (22 January 2011)

Terrific post WaveSurfer. Real world solutions are what we need. Please excuse my bolding of your words.



WaveSurfer said:


> ...Demand will never dry up, no matter what. All the professionals and lobbyists can harp on about the pro's and con's forever, make all the laws against it as they see fit, but in the end people will do it regardless of what anyone says or does to stop it...
> 
> ...*My wife is an emergency medicine doc and (quite to my surprise) she is all for the supply of clean substances*.  I've heard some pretty nasty stories, most of which involved a "bad batch". Imagine what it would be like shafting Ajax or some other nasty chemical up your veins thinking it was smack. That's when they get to hospital and Narcan does squat, then the poor medical professionals are in for a sh*t fight all night trying to work out what the hell else was in the gear. If it were clean, they can deal with the critical issue swiftly and move on to the next person...
> ...http://www.who.int/about/definition/en/print.html


----------



## prawn_86 (22 January 2011)

Logique said:


> Terrific post WaveSurfer. Real world solutions are what we need. Please excuse my bolding of your words.




If people are passionate about this i suggest helping to fund MDMA and other studies in order to help build a scientific case showing how harmless some drugs can be if pure


----------



## Julia (22 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> If people are passionate about this i suggest helping to fund MDMA and other studies in order to help build a scientific case showing how harmless some drugs can be if pure




Excellent idea.   How would you design such a study?   e.g. how would you select respondents?   How long would the study be?  Etc.

Would you also advise similar be applied to other substances, e.g  the various stimulants (amphetamine et al), cocaine, heroin?


----------



## prawn_86 (22 January 2011)

You seem to be very close minded about the situation and seem to be taking out frustration/agression on me personally.

And you still haven't answered if you drink alcohol? What about tea or coffee? What about eating high fat processed foods? 



Julia said:


> Excellent idea.   How would you design such a study?   e.g. how would you select respondents?   How long would the study be?  Etc.
> 
> Would you also advise similar be applied to other substances, e.g  the various stimulants (amphetamine et al), cocaine, heroin?




Im not a researcher, i dont design studies. If you are so interested then there are human trials being conducted in Canada, Israel and Switzerland. I suggest you contact those conducting the trials and ask about their methodology. Please post their replies as i too would be keen to know.

Close to home, Amy Pennay is a PHD student who is researching the matter (mainly focusing around usage) her details are her if you wish to contact her:
http://db.ndri.curtin.edu.au/student.asp?persid=906&typeid=1
And her main project:
http://db.ndri.curtin.edu.au/research.asp?resprtyid=16&typeid=1&projid=290

Various other worldwide studies/stories for you to peruse:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/821572-overview

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked

http://media.enlighten.org.au/literature/pre.post.loading.pdf

Thompson, MR, Callaghan, PD, Hunt, GE & McGregor IS, Reduced sensitivity to MDMA-induced facilitation of social behaviour in MDMA pre exposed rats Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacology & Biological Psychiatry (2008) in press


I would advocate as many trials and tests as possible on all drugs so we can then have an open debate (not a "drugs are bad. Fullstop." deabte) about the pros and cons. If morphine can get FDA approval i dont see why other drugs couldnt.


----------



## Julia (22 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> You seem to be very close minded about the situation and seem to be taking out frustration/agression on me personally.



If I seem to be targeting you personally, I apologise.  I'd not intended to do so.
Probably you have been the most specific in terms of what you think should happen with what drugs.
I have no intention of explaining why I feel as strongly as I do, except to say that I've seen at very first hand the *long term* health and social outcomes in several people who have used various drugs over decades.

You are young and you feel bulletproof, invincible.  Understandable.  You are presumably healthy and the body and mind are capable of withstanding sustained abuse before showing any appreciable adverse effects.

You don't have to be a designer of clinical trials to answer the very basic question of how long you would expect a study to continue for it to deliver statistically valid results.

The reason I ask you this is because you and others are banging on about how there is no adverse effect from taking the drugs you do.  My response is simply "how do you know"?

You are surely aware that the health outcomes from smoking cigarettes and drinking excessive amounts of alcohol are not apparent in the first few years of use, probably not even in the first 20 years.  But take a second look in middle age and it's a whole other story.  This is my objection to your careless discarding of any suggestion that using drugs is likely deleterious to your health in the long term.

You also don't have to be a researcher to offer a view about how many people you would consider would need to participate in a trial to offer a valid outcome.  100?
20,000?

And finally, would you yourself, with your advocacy of drug use, be happy to participate in a longitudinal trial over, say 30 years, this being the only valid way to demonstrate actual health outcomes, both physiological and psychological.





> And you still haven't answered if you drink alcohol? What about tea or coffee? What about eating high fat processed foods?



It's none of your business.  My eating and drinking habits are not the issue here.
The issue is whether drugs that are presently illegal should be decriminalised or legalised.



> If morphine can get FDA approval i dont see why other drugs couldnt.



Oh, for heaven's sake, prawn, I thought you were brighter than to say something so stupid.
Morphine does not have FDA (or PBS in Australia) approval for recreational use!
It is strictly and stringently regulated in terms of being used for severe pain in a medical setting.


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## Gringotts Bank (23 January 2011)

I understand why people would do illegal drugs, and I think there may be a case for restricted and supervised use in certain situations such as:

- severe pain, end stage cancer
- spiritual growth (hallucinogens), only if supervised
- severe depression (hallucinogens currently being studied)
- Parkinson's disease, dementia (MDMA supposed to be very effective short term)

But *only *once more studies are completed to properly understand the downside risks.

*If you are reading this thread and don't understand the risks, first go and visit the poor sods at a rehab centre and see how you might end up. The people on this thread, including me, are not doctors or drug researchers.  Listening to unsolicited advice could really **** you up.*


----------



## kotim (23 January 2011)

Why worry about it, they may as well be illegal even if you make it legal.

I can tell you that within the next 20 years every single work place will have drug and alcohol testing on a daily multiple basis.  So in other words if the vast majority of people want a job then they will have to ensure there is no trace of any drug in their system when they turn up for, during or leave work.  All vehicle will have mandatory drug/drink testing before they will be allowed to be driven etc.

Remember the government is ultimatley only concerned with finances andlimiting their liability, as indeed are every one.  Essentially that is why we have insurance.

So you can imagine what the implications will be for eg. if your laywer is caught for drugs and the previous month he lost you a court case.  How do you think that might impact upon civil claims for people not happy with his performance.

The reailty is that any mind altering substance in future will seriously jeaporadise your finances.  

Look at speed cameras, They will eventually have them every few kilometers to ensure you can't speed anywhere.

The reality is that people tend to modify drugs to achieve a better outcome.

Lok at Cannabis.  They know that there are anti psychotic chemicals in Cannabis which reduce the psychotic effect that Cannabis can have on an individual, but guess what, the number of such chemicals are in proportion to the tetra hydracannibinol (THC) which is the active high ingredient.  In other words as people have attempted to increase the quantity of THC in Cannabis they have in fact made the drug substantially more  likely to cause psychotic behaviour because the chemicals that can reduce the psychotic effect are reduced/eliminated as you increase the amount of THC in the system.


----------



## nunthewiser (23 January 2011)

lol

if i wasnt so stoned i,d point out how many hypocritical jewels there are in this thread.


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## Tink (23 January 2011)

Havent we had this debate before?

I say leave it as it is, we have enough problems with the cigarettes and alcohol, we dont need more on the list.

If people decide to go down that road, well its their choice, and its not up to the government to make it all easier for them.


----------



## prawn_86 (23 January 2011)

Julia said:


> The reason I ask you this is because you and others are banging on about how there is no adverse effect from taking the drugs you do.  My response is simply "how do you know"?




Based on trials in lab rats the long term damage is no more so than smoking or drinking. Of course there are effects, what i have said is there are fairly minimal effect in the context of other currently legal drugs. Even over the counter and prescribed drugs have side effects



> You also don't have to be a researcher to offer a view about how many people you would consider would need to participate in a trial to offer a valid outcome.  100?
> 20,000?




From my understanding about 3000 participants can build a survey very representative of a population, statistically speaking.



> And finally, would you yourself, with your advocacy of drug use, be happy to participate in a longitudinal trial over, say 30 years, this being the only valid way to demonstrate actual health outcomes, both physiological and psychological.




Yes definitely i would love the chance to do so, providing i dint have to change my current usage patterns



> Oh, for heaven's sake, prawn, I thought you were brighter than to say something so stupid.
> Morphine does not have FDA (or PBS in Australia) approval for recreational use!
> It is strictly and stringently regulated in terms of being used for severe pain in a medical setting.




My point is, it was researched enough to get it to this stage, yet with current laws in place it is very very difficult to do large human trials with illicit drugs. Perhaps they will/could have a medical purpose also, such as treating depression, yet because they are illegal people automatically think they must be bad in all circumstances. 

As i understand it, MDMA and its derivatives were made illegal because it was a synthesied drug (first made in 1912) made in labs, whereas alot of other drugs at the time were derived from plants etc. Since it was made illegal researchers and medical professionals focused elsewhere on other drugs. We now live in an era where a huge number of medical drugs are synthesised in labs, so just because MDMA is illegal due to historic purposes means we shouldnt look at possible benefits?


----------



## Julia (23 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> I am not saying that every illicit drug is not physically addictive. Ones such as MDMA and cocaine are not, yet others such as heroin and ice can cause devastating physical addictions.



From eMedicineHealth:  







> A common myth is that cocaine is not addictive because it lacks the physical withdrawal symptoms seen in alcohol or heroin addiction. Cocaine has powerful psychological addictive properties. As more than one user has reflected, "If it is not addictive, then why can't I stop?" The trend in drug abuse in the United States is presently multiple or polydrug abuse, and cocaine is no exception. Cocaine is often used with alcohol, sedatives such as Valium, Ativan, or heroin, as an upper/downer combination. The other drug is also used to moderate the side effects of the primary addiction. A common polydrug abuse problem, seen especially in adolescents, is cocaine, alcohol, and marijuana.
> 
> Drug abuse, chemical dependency, and addictive behavior spare no one and are spread throughout society. They do not respect age, profession, race, religion, or physical attributes.
> 
> ...







prawn_86 said:


> Yes but as i have said it is an addiction to the high not to the drug itself. The drug itself simply causes the high to which people get addicted.



I understand what you're trying to say here, e.g. it may not induce the physiological addiction that, say, nicotine and heroin do.   But in the end, if someone becomes an addict it doesn't matter too much how that addiction was formed.  To consider that the lack of the sort of physical withdrawal seen with heroin is an indication a drug is not addictive is very simplistic and unrealistic.




Gringotts Bank said:


> I understand why people would do illegal drugs, and I think there may be a case for restricted and supervised use in certain situations such as:
> 
> - severe pain, end stage cancer



Agree.



> - severe depression (hallucinogens currently being studied)



Would there be a risk that we'd suddenly see a lot more 'severe depression' if these were available?  Perhaps not, as there seem to be far fewer people interested in hallucinogens than a few decades ago.   Do you have any idea of by what mechanism such drugs would alleviate depression?



> - Parkinson's disease, dementia (MDMA supposed to be very effective short term)



That's interesting.  Are you able to give a reference where we could find out more about this?




> But *only *once more studies are completed to properly understand the downside risks.
> 
> *If you are reading this thread and don't understand the risks, first go and visit the poor sods at a rehab centre and see how you might end up. The people on this thread, including me, are not doctors or drug researchers.  Listening to unsolicited advice could really **** you up.*



Agree absolutely.  And just seeing the once functional people now at rehab centres doesn't take account of the families and careers destroyed, not to mention what's usually total financial loss.




prawn_86 said:


> Based on trials in lab rats the long term damage is no more so than smoking or drinking. Of course there are effects, what i have said is there are fairly minimal effect in the context of other currently legal drugs. Even over the counter and prescribed drugs have side effects



You're right about pretty much all drugs having some side effects.
You cannot reasonably extrapolate effects on rats to human beings.  The rats were not being assessed (as far as I know) for damage to relationships, financial status or careers.    Read some of what I've quoted above also.



> My point is, it was researched enough to get it to this stage, yet with current laws in place it is very very difficult to do large human trials with illicit drugs. Perhaps they will/could have a medical purpose also, such as treating depression, yet because they are illegal people automatically think they must be bad in all circumstances.



OK, that's a reasonable comment.  Btw a version of heroin is used in the UK for treatment of severe pain.  



> As i understand it, MDMA and its derivatives were made illegal because it was a synthesied drug (first made in 1912) made in labs, whereas alot of other drugs at the time were derived from plants etc. Since it was made illegal researchers and medical professionals focused elsewhere on other drugs. We now live in an era where a huge number of medical drugs are synthesised in labs, so just because MDMA is illegal due to historic purposes means we shouldnt look at possible benefits?



Agree.


----------



## prawn_86 (23 January 2011)

Julia said:


> I understand what you're trying to say here, e.g. it may not induce the physiological addiction that, say, nicotine and heroin do.   But in the end, if someone becomes an addict it doesn't matter too much how that addiction was formed.  To consider that the lack of the sort of physical withdrawal seen with heroin is an indication a drug is not addictive is very simplistic and unrealistic.




Humans by nature seem to have an addictive personality, some much more so than others (this is based on my observations, no particular science behind it). Plenty of people get addicted to food, dangerous sports, sex etc etc. Anything that releases endorphines and dopamines can create a phsychological addiction.

1. Fatty foods can dramatically reduce a persons lifespan.

2. Dangerous sports or driving can also reduce peoples lifespan (on average, and usually young males).

4. Sex addiction has ruined plenty of relationships.


So should we each be monitored X times per year to see if we are forming a damaging phsychological addiction to "something"??

Why are some things banned and others not? In a Western society which supposedly upholds 'freedom' in theory (not in reality of course), why are some (no more damaging) things repressed and others (more damaging or at least equally) allowed to flourish?

Obviously its a hypothetical question, but i hope that it shows illegal drugs are no more damaging than other alternatives, such as they are made out to be by government propaganda.


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## Gringotts Bank (23 January 2011)

Julia,

re: Parkinson's - cause or cure, or both?   http://www.exampleessays.com/viewpaper/12171.html

re: depression: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/science/12psychedelics.html

Forget what I said about dementia.  Not sure where I got that idea from.

The thing is, if something works well and has a low side effect profile, it's going to become mainstream knowledge very quickly.  You won't need to be Googling around, the info will come into your lounge room.


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## motorway (23 January 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Julia,
> 
> re: Parkinson's - cause or cure, or both?   http://www.exampleessays.com/viewpaper/12171.html
> 
> ...




Only if someone can make a lot of money from it..
Even then you might well hear about it. But can you trust the information.
When lots of $$ are involved.

Vioxx ? Statins ?

Maybe there is more money to be made by the status quo..
regarding illegal drugs...

There are always vested interests somewhere when lots of $$$$ are involved.
But sometimes not where you expect...


Motorway


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## tothemax6 (23 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> Based on trials in lab rats the long term damage is no more so than smoking or drinking. Of course there are effects, what i have said is there are fairly minimal effect in the context of other currently legal drugs. Even over the counter and prescribed drugs have side effects



I can't believe they did a study using a rat as a human-analog in something so specific as the effects of drugs. There is quite a bit of physiological difference between a rat brain and a human brain, the researchers should be sacked. I remember there was once a study done that 'proved' (according to ban advocates) the controversial point that aspartame was dangerous, by showing it causing tumor formation in lab animals. Of course, they didn't mention that these animals (since they were not human), happened to have different digestive enzymes, which caused the aspartame to be broken down into different chemicals - which happened to be carcinogenic.


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## DB008 (23 January 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Julia, I read a study once, and I don't have it to hand, but the researchers reckoned that up to 30% of all suburbs ingested marijuana at least once weekly.
> 
> I'd tend to believe this.
> 
> ...




You got me thinking of when l was living in London in 2005 GG. There was a article that caught my eye and l still remember it to this day....read below...



> http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/in-one-canal/2005/11/07/1131211952516.html
> 
> Cocaine traces detected in Thames River
> 
> ...




Julia, people are going to take drugs regardless of what anyone says. It's a fact of life and we must deal with it. May as well have it produced properly (ie, pharmaceutical grade quality) so that people who decide to take drugs know what they are getting (strength, quality, etc etc). How many stories do you hear of people that take H and it's a hot hit and kills 'em? I have friends that have had loved ones perish because of this. Heart breaking.


----------



## prawn_86 (23 January 2011)

tothemax6 said:


> I can't believe they did a study using a rat as a human-analog in something so specific as the effects of drugs. There is quite a bit of physiological difference between a rat brain and a human brain, the researchers should be sacked.




This is part of my point (although i do think with proper detailed research rats are the closest thing we have to be used in studies of all kinds; with the exception of pigs or monkeys possibly). How are they meant to effectively study it if as soon as some-one mentions it they go "nope its illegal".


----------



## tothemax6 (24 January 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> This is part of my point (although i do think with proper detailed research rats are the closest thing we have to be used in studies of all kinds; with the exception of pigs or monkeys possibly). How are they meant to effectively study it if as soon as some-one mentions it they go "nope its illegal".



Go to some lawless drug country and set up a study? Offer to buy the junkies all the drugs they want as long as you can study them etc. Probably would violate many ethics codes, but would get the job done .


----------



## Sean K (24 January 2011)

I'm sure a few people would only dream of having drugs put in their bag as they entered a party.



You were hot Tottie

She really should be locked up and the key thrown away.

Like in Indonesia!


----------



## Julia (24 January 2011)

Kennas, you started this thread (despite there being others of similar vein) but unless I've missed it, you've not contributed your own view.

Were you just bored and wanting to stir the pot?    I did ask earlier what your own thoughts were.


----------



## orr (25 January 2011)

Just seen what you've been reading Julia, Hope you didn't miss this from the Crikey Big Ideas series By Kate Holden;
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/23/kate-holden-lots-of-people-like-drugs-try-asking-them-about-it/

William Burroughs "Junky" I find myself going back too as well, someone who could be thought of as a long term study, 60 odd years, perceptive and productive to the end, if a little paranoid.


----------



## Solly (25 January 2011)

Off course what is often overlooked is what happens to some unfortunates involved in the production side of the business.

Just look what can happen when your meth lab goes up !

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jan/23/no-headline---23b03methfire-folo/


----------



## sails (25 January 2011)

Solly said:


> Off course what is often overlooked is what happens to some unfortunates involved in the production side of the business.
> 
> Just look what can happen when your meth lab goes up !
> 
> http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jan/23/no-headline---23b03methfire-folo/




When you look at the almost lifeless eyes of this girl whose picture is displayed on the link provided by Solly, you wonder if anyone is home because not even the lights appear to be on.

Is this what meth does to the brain?


----------



## Julia (25 January 2011)

orr said:


> Just seen what you've been reading Julia, Hope you didn't miss this from the Crikey Big Ideas series By Kate Holden;
> http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/23/kate-holden-lots-of-people-like-drugs-try-asking-them-about-it/



Thanks for that, orr.  Reading this makes me realise that anyone making a plea for people not to use some drugs necessarily comes across as simply being judgmental, patronising and lacking in understanding of the sheer pleasure many drugs can offer.

If this is in fact how my concerns have come across, I want to try to dispel that.

Kate Holden says in the 'big ideas' piece:


> My time as a heroin addict was, admittedly, almost entirely horrible.  Addiction and enslavement is terrifying and sometimes lethal.






> The only people affected by my being impoverished, feared, despised, marginalised and degraded were me and my horrified family, as my self esteem was ground down, my prospects of rebuilding a respectable life receded and the only consolation was .... more drugs.




This is the essence of what I've been trying to say, probably very poorly.

I'm in favour of individual freedoms and resent strongly that we are forced to obey laws that seem to be made only for the most stupid amongst us.   And I believe we need to be encouraged to take individual and personal responsibility for our decisions and largely live with the consequences.  Our society is actually going in the other direction unfortunately.

I have no argument with the obvious conclusion that if drugs were decriminalised/legalised then the benefits in terms of crime reduction would be huge.

But my unrelenting concern is about *addiction* and the misery it confers not just on the addict but on his/her family, colleagues, relationships and finances.

I've already said that I've seen many 'respectable' professional people's lives in ruins because they discovered too late that the recreation had turned into an addiction.

Kate Holden uses the word 'enslavement'.  She is so right.   The constant seeking of the drug takes over the addict's whole life.  Nothing else matters.   

I'll offer an example, a story typical of many.

A doctor, in his late 30's, partner in a large general practice, president of the local professional body, lecturer of students, well liked and respected by all, happy marriage, two beautiful daughters, was discovered to have been addicted to narcotics for nearly ten years.  None of his family or his partners had any idea.

Such is the insidious nature of narcotics that this doctor was taking forty times the therapeutic dose if the drug had been used for its approved indication, e.g. severe pain.  Yet he showed no evidence of any 'high' or otherwise unusual behaviour.

*All this massive dose of the drug was doing was keeping him from going into withdrawal.*

Eventually the quantity prescribed for his patients drew the attention of the Health Department who made some enquiries amongst his patients, few of whom had ever received the prescriptions made in their names.

He was offered the choice between being prosecuted or take leave to get assistance.
Obviously he chose the latter.  His family were shocked but supportive, as were his partners.   He angrily submitted to three months at a private (and very discreet) psychiatric hospital well away from his city of residence where he unbelievably was permitted to keep his car and prescription pad, so happily drove round the new city filling prescriptions for himself.   Such is the enslavement to the drug that even when everything he once valued is clearly on the line, he refuses to genuinely engage in any sort of therapeutic effort.

Eventually, he's discharged, the hospital feeling they had done all they could, went home on the proviso he continue to see a local psychiatrist and not prescribe the drug in question.

Meantime, the real reason for his absence from the practice had leaked out and an enterprising heroin addict saw an opportunity to get various precursor drugs prescribed by the doctor in exchange for giving him some heroin off the streets.
The lure of the narcotic was so great, the doctor succumbed to this blackmail and before long was himself sharing the smack in the filthy boarding houses on the street.

His despair at what he had become led further to his using benzodiazepines, barbiturates, amphetamine et al in a crazed attempt to block out what had become his reality.  Before long this poisonous cocktail along with alcohol produced in him a psychotic state.  He tried to kill his wife and threatened his children, and smashed up furniture when his partners tried to reason with him.

He engaged in some horrific abuse of patients, the details of which are too ghastly to be recorded here.

He was eventually arrested in a psychotic state, injecting himself with heroin in the small hours on a city pavement.

There was a lengthy trial with multiple charges and much publicity which further destroyed his family, colleagues and friends.  He was financially destitute after legal fees had been paid.  He went to jail for some years.

He was never successfully rehabilitated and died at an early age.

His story is just one of many that are similar.

This is why every time a thread like this comes up, I'm compelled to make a plea to all you bright, intelligent young people, all your lives ahead of you, to please not consider you're always going to be in control of what now seems like harmless and enjoyable recreation.   

I wish all of you health and success, but most of all just want you to be safe.


----------



## Sean K (25 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Kennas, you started this thread (despite there being others of similar vein) but unless I've missed it, you've not contributed your own view.
> 
> Were you just bored and wanting to stir the pot?    I did ask earlier what your own thoughts were.



I'm not actually sure Julia. 

I understand why we do have alcohol and tobacco due to historical cultural reasons, prior to understanding the real cost. Plus, if we banned them huge industries would be decimated. 

Opium and Cocaine were actually legal for a while until whatever happened to ban them. 

I understand why some drugs are banned because they are particularly damaging to your ability to function as a social animal. 

But banning these things has not stopped them from being used and created massive illegal trade that is costing gazillions of dollars and lives. The drug cartels in Mexico have almost brought an entire country to a halt. 

I think we do need to do something different to what's happening now, it's not working. Maybe legalising drugs for a trial period might at least give us an insight into the effects on society and put a stop to the illegal trade and all that that brings with it.


----------



## maffu (27 January 2011)

white_goodman said:


> trust the great man himself to have the answer...





I am quite surprised no one commented on this video.
I quite enjoyed it myself, and found the reference to the War on Drugs increasing the barriers to entry for new suppliers and creating monopolies of drug cartels very interesting.

I have never used illegal drugs, but as someone who values economics, I believe the legalisation of certain drugs can be very beneficial to society.

Pros: Increased tax revenue, Lower drug usage, Smash drug dealer and cartels/lower organised crime, allow problem users to more easily admit to having problems and seek help (Portugal example).


By making Marijuana legal, with a well regulated supply for those aged 21+, with high taxation, it would dramatically lower usage. Weed was incredibly easy to get in high school, much easier than Alcohol was, and it is in those teenage years when it does more damage, and is more tempting to use.


----------



## Sean K (27 January 2011)

maffu said:


> I am quite surprised no one commented on this video.



A lot of common sense there. Hard to argue with really.


----------



## Logique (27 January 2011)

kennas said:


> A lot of common sense there. Hard to argue with really.



 Plus 1 on that.


----------



## Sean K (3 February 2011)

One ecstasy tablet in her husband's pocket potentially spells the end of a political career. Meanwhile, millions of people suck back more damaging (legal) tobacco to their hearts discontent causing massive economic and personal hardship.

The irony is heartbreakingly irrefutable.


----------



## DB008 (3 February 2011)

*
5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results*


> Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006,  according to a report released recently by the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C, libertarian think tank.




*
The success of drug decriminalization in Portugalhttp://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/14/portugalhttp://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/14/portugal*



> In 2001, Portugal became the only EU-member state to decriminalize drugs, a distinction which continues through to the present.




*Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?*


> The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.
> 
> *The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.*


----------



## trainspotter (3 February 2011)

kennas said:


> One ecstasy tablet in her husband's pocket potentially spells the end of a political career. Meanwhile, millions of people suck back more damaging (legal) tobacco to their hearts discontent causing massive economic and personal hardship.
> 
> The irony is heartbreakingly irrefutable.




Alcohol destroys many lives and makes sane men abhorrent.

Hahhahahahha ....... I just googled this and got a Lesbian, Christian and Cannibalism site .......... maybe I am not that bad afterall??????


----------



## Mofra (4 February 2011)

trainspotter said:


> Hahhahahahha ....... I just googled this and got a *Lesbian, Christian and Cannibalism site* .......... maybe I am not that bad afterall??????



Link please :


----------



## Calliope (4 February 2011)

Mofra said:


> Link please :




There's your link;

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&xhr...sane+men+abhorrent.&pbx=1&fp=b7db3a7b1e85d34d


----------



## Calliope (4 February 2011)

The rodents have joined the war on drugs;



> FORGET sniffer dogs, crack teams of mice are being trained to detect bombers and drugs couriers at airports.
> 
> The sniffer rodents are then hidden in airport scanners, ready to raise the alarm.
> 
> ...




http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/mice-that-can-trap-terrorists/story-fn6br97j-1225999628199


----------



## Sean K (8 February 2011)

Mexico, at the mercy of drug cartels, funded by Western desire, is on it's knees.

*Something has to change.*

The desire will not go away.


*Nuevo Laredo police chief gunned down, Mexican authorities say*
By Mariano Castillo, CNN

February 3, 2011 -- Updated 2146 GMT 

(CNN) -- The director of public security in the border city of Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, was gunned down Wednesday night, officials said, though details of the incident remained scarce.

Gen. Manuel Farfan Carreola, who served as police chief, was shot near his office by unknown assailants, said Everardo Sanchez, a spokesman for Mexico's attorney general's office. He had been in the position since a new administration assumed city leadership on January 1.

Rumors of how many others were killed along with the police chief swirled in Nuevo Laredo Thursday, but city officials declined to go on the record with details surrounding the incident. The state government, which is leading the investigation, was expected to hold a news conference Thursday evening.

"Obviously, the news about his death is out, but the circumstances have been in the shadows," said Joe Baeza, a spokesman for the Laredo, Texas, Police Department. The Laredo Police Department keeps in touch with its cross-border colleagues.

The investigation is an ongoing process, Baeza said, though early reports that have reached his department were that five of Farfan's security team were killed in the shooting.

The Laredo Police Department received several reports of sporadic gunfire on the Mexican side of the border, possibly related to the fallout of the killing, Baeza said.
"There's reported instability on the Mexican side," he said.

Nuevo Laredo is one of the battlegrounds that is being contested by rival drug cartels. The Gulf cartel and its former enforcers, Los Zetas, have been fighting over the territory and its lucrative smuggling routes. The Sinaloa cartel also has been fighting for years to get a foothold in the area.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (8 February 2011)

I just saw one of the new season 'Two and Half Men' episodes.  We've jumped the shark I'm afraid.

Charlie has definitely lost his Sheen.  The show doesn't work without his confidence and charisma.  I guess that's the cocaine.  Hard to watch now.


----------



## Sean K (8 February 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I just saw one of the new season 'Two and Half Men' episodes.  We've jumped the shark I'm afraid.
> 
> Charlie has definitely lost his Sheen.  The show doesn't work without his confidence and charisma.  I guess that's the cocaine.  Hard to watch now.



Haven't sheen it yet. Just watching re-runs. It was a funny show. With the added edge that you knew Charlie was playing Charlie. 

He'll be back.


----------



## bandicoot76 (9 February 2011)

like it or not people are going to use illicit drugs no matter what the law is, some people will try it then never touch it again, others will be occasional "social users" while there are always people with addictive natures who will become full blown addicts. 
those of us who dont touch the sh*t will make no difference to this equation wether we dis-agree with drug use or not. while ever it remains illegal however, the huge amounts of money involved will fuel drug crime & violence. my thoughts are legalise all drugs BUT if the user's commit a crime under the influence of these drugs then when they go to court their sentance is automatically double that of someone 'clean' who committed the same crime, as a deterant. 
wether or not its illegal, these drugs are already freely available in our community, my view is we have to manage the situation by incentives & deterants... mandatory tax levy for users to pre-pay health/medical expenses for the futue, non eligable for social security if mandatory weekly test is positive, increased pre-employment drug testing, increased premiums for insurance/rego, not eligable for drivers liscence, taking the profits away from manufacturers & dealers, just make it "not cool" and putting a financial sting on the users might be a way to combat it. 
a blanket ban on it sure hasnt done anything positive except make the crims rich! abit like prohibition didnt stop ppl drinking only made the mob wealthy.


----------



## Logique (9 February 2011)

Yes I think you're on the right track Bandicoot.

I think tobacco provides the model.

Tobacco is a legal drug, but it's use is in decline, through strong public education campaigns, backed up with some govt regulation via smoke free areas.


----------



## Logique (9 February 2011)

kennas said:


> Mexico, at the mercy of drug cartels, funded by Western desire, is on it's knees.
> *Something has to change.*
> The desire will not go away.
> *Nuevo Laredo police chief gunned down, Mexican authorities say*
> ...



Indeed K. I saw 'No Country For Old Men' the other night. All that murder and lawlessness for a case of white powder. Urgent policy change is required.


----------



## Mofra (9 February 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> a blanket ban on it sure hasnt done anything positive except make the crims rich! abit like prohibition didnt stop ppl drinking only made the mob wealthy.



... and the decriminalisation experience in other countries has shown a decline in usage rates, whilst government revenue from usage soured, and police resources can be diverted to actual crime prevention & investigation.

It seems so obvious - unfortunately we seem beset by an era of political cowardice so we can't expect real change anytime soon.


----------



## DB008 (9 February 2011)

Mofra said:


> ... and the decriminalisation experience in other countries has shown a decline in usage rates, whilst government revenue from usage soured, and police resources can be diverted to actual crime prevention & investigation.
> 
> It seems so obvious - unfortunately we seem beset by an era of political cowardice so we can't expect real change anytime soon.




This is the point that l was trying to make.
As bandicoot76 said,



> like it or not people are going to use illicit drugs no matter what the law is, some people will try it then never touch it again, others will be occasional "social users" while there are always people with addictive natures who will become full blown addicts.
> those of us who don't touch the sh*t will make no difference to this equation whether we dis-agree with drug use or not. while ever it remains illegal however, the huge amounts of money involved will fuel drug crime & violence. my thoughts are legalise all drugs




 +1 




> *Netherlands to close prisons for lack of criminals*
> 
> The Dutch justice ministry has announced it will close eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. A decline in crime has left many cells empty....
> 
> http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals


----------



## DB008 (12 February 2011)

From the UN website...

*World Drug Report 2010*

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/WDR-2010.html

Link to the PDF
http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/Executive_summary.pdf
(Executive Summary ^17 pages PDF ~1.23mb)


----------



## Timmy (18 June 2012)

> "We had a police officer shot in crossfire on a drug raid, and he went into *a wheelchair for life*, and I'm thinking, 'Wow, this guy's like this because he was trying to keep an addict from getting his heroin?' W*e had another cop killed in a buy-bust.... He shot him in the face.* And this weighs on you, and you ask, 'What is the value of what we're doing?' "



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0617-lopez-drugs-20120617,0,7270973.column

Dead police officers.
Wheelchair-bound police officers.
Police officers shot in the face.

All to combat supply and demand?


----------



## prawn_86 (18 June 2012)

Cant find the link, but last week one of Canada's highest health officials came out and tried to dispel some of the myths around ecstacy and pushed for legalisation of MDMA.

MDMA (which was originally the only active ingredient in ecstacy) is a very stable, pure chemical compound, and taken by itself in pure form, is virtually impossible to overdose on. There are no recorded fatalities from MDMA and every 'exstacy' death has been due to impure pills sold as ecstacy. If MDMA was available over the counter then one would assume no-one would die from tainted street ecstacy (even though the deaths are extremly low PA (less than 100 globally i think) anyway)


----------



## DB008 (9 September 2012)

This will stir the pot...

*Decriminalise cannabis, ecstasy to curb addiction: report*



> A national report into illicit drugs has recommended decriminalising ecstasy and cannabis under a government-controlled program to help curb addiction.
> 
> It comes as Australian Federal Police reveal there has been a massive increase in the amount of illegal drugs and criminal assets seized in the past year.
> 
> ...



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-09/decriminalise-drugs-to-curb-addiction-report/4251256

16 is too young to be taking pills (or any form of drugs)!


----------



## Julia (9 September 2012)

Yet another kite flying exercise from academe.  Governments won't have a bar of it.  It would be political suicide.


----------



## Tink (10 September 2012)

Is it working with alcohol and cigarettes?

The dutch are having their own problems with people flocking over the border.


----------



## DB008 (10 September 2012)

Great article

ABC - The Drum - Australia's pointless and deadly drugs crackdown



> Australia's crackdown on drugs has been pointless and devastating, writes Greg Barns. What are we trying to achieve?
> 
> Every weekend, thousands of young Australians take drugs when they go partying, clubbing or sit around chilling with their friends.
> 
> ...







> The Netherlands, Portugal and Switzerland are examples of the former approach; Sweden, the latter.
> 
> Dr JoÃ£o GoulÃ£o, a leading Portuguese drugs expert, says that a combined strategy of decriminalisation and a major investment in the health system have allowed Portugal to stem the growth of drugs in that country.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4249070.html


----------



## prawn_86 (10 September 2012)

It will take even more time, but i remmeber a few years ago articles like this wouldn't have even had a chance in the mainstream media. People are slowly opening their eyes at least. Now we just need politicians to take notice to their constituents (cause they do that so well...  )


----------



## DB008 (12 September 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> It will take even more time, but i remmeber a few years ago articles like this wouldn't have even had a chance in the mainstream media. People are slowly opening their eyes at least. Now we just need politicians to take notice to their constituents (cause they do that so well...  )




As much as l would like to have some drugs legalised, it won't ever happen here in Australia (I hope l eat my words!)


----------



## Tink (13 September 2012)

I dont think it will be long before cigarettes go on the banning list the way its been going.

Did you see the imperial smoking company put the -- its whats on the inside that counts --- on their plain label packaging?
They will try every measure to get it through to their customers, was a good marketing ploy -- got them lots of advertising.

There is more than enough information out there regarding drugs, we dont need to legalise -- Mental Health is full  -- my opinion.


----------



## DB008 (21 September 2012)

Uruguay takes ‘war on drugs’ in new direction: state monopoly over the production and distribution of marijuana



> Uruguay has long been at the vanguard of social reform in Latin America. Today, it is on the verge of passing into law one of its most radical ideas yet.
> 
> The Broad Front – the center-left coalition that holds power – is proposing a state monopoly over the production and distribution of marijuana, making Uruguay the first national government to sell cannabis directly to citizens. The government says the measure is necessary to combat rising drug-related crime, decrease health risks for users, and counter ineffective US policies on drugs. But within Uruguay, interest groups have labeled the legislation totalitarian, while some international bodies argue it breaches global conventions.
> 
> ...



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/20/uruguay-takes-war-on-drugs-in-new-direction-state-monopoly-over-the-production-and-distribution-of-marijuana/


----------



## ZergPrince (24 September 2012)

Might as well legalise them all and let people make their own decisions no matter how stupid..


1rd post 

hi guise!


----------



## DB008 (3 October 2012)

Due to the underground drugs market and drug wars going on in South America, the Uruguay Government is trying to control/regulate the pot market, get some money out of it (tax on sales I guess) and stop the flow of money to the drug gangs. Oh, and they don't give a rats what the US thinks. 




> *Uruguay's Drugs Policy: Regulating Market For Pot*
> 
> Increasing drug use and narcotrafficking has made some Latin American countries among the most violent places on Earth. But tiny, progressive Uruguay, where it's always been legal to use marijuana, is leading the way with an alternative drug policy.
> 
> ...




http://www.npr.org/2012/10/02/162092271/uruguays-drugs-policy-regulating-market-for-pot


----------



## Logique (3 October 2012)

Watch Boardwalk Empire on Sunday nights. The Volstead Act served only to grow organized crime.


----------



## DB008 (3 October 2012)

Could be BS, but I really hope that they are onto something as l have a very close relative who is fighting cancer.

*Marijuana And Cancer: Scientists Find Cannabis Compound Stops Metastasis In Aggressive Cancers*



> A pair of scientists at California Pacific Medical Center in San Francisco has found that a compound derived from marijuana could stop metastasis in many kinds of aggressive cancer, potentially altering the fatality of the disease forever.
> 
> "It took us about 20 years of research to figure this out, but we are very excited," said Pierre Desprez, one of the scientists behind the discovery, to The Huffington Post. "We want to get started with trials as soon as possible."
> 
> ...




Link - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false


----------



## DB008 (7 October 2012)

The next few weeks in the USA will be very important regarding marijuana.




> *Fed Court to Review Marijuana Drug Status 1st Time in 20 Years*
> 
> WASHINGTON ”” For the first time in nearly 20 years, a United States Court of Appeals is set to hear oral arguments in a lawsuit challenging the federal government’s classification of marijuana as a dangerous drug with no medicinal value: Americans for Safe Access v. Drug Enforcement Administration. This historic case will force a federal court to finally review the scientific evidence regarding the therapeutic efficacy of marijuana.
> 
> ...


----------



## Trademyshoes (7 October 2012)

kennas said:


> Alcohol and tobacco are fine, yet presently they cause the most physical and mental damage to humans of any drug. Perhaps the biggest killers of humans on the planet, except for war.
> 
> Ecstasy and marijuana don't seem to do much damage, but because of illegality and limited use the potential damage is unknown.
> 
> ...




Crappy Ecks, long term usage leads to physical damage to the body. That argument is flawed because long term use of Alchohol will lead to relatively the same damage. On the other hand Ecks would do the damage in a shorter period of time.

Best thing to legalize is Cannabis. I don't see why people can drink themselves stupid, cause anti-social behavior and force Gov't to impose rediculous restrictions on the entire population due to the actions of a very small percentage - yet smoke a joint and you end up on 2GB with Ray Hadley asking for the Death Penalty because he either deosn't understand the world beyond his high class suburbian settlement or is a two faced lier adheering to the consensus of his listeners.


----------



## DB008 (7 October 2012)

SMH article from 2010



> *War on drugs? Now that's reefer madness*
> 
> The NSW Government and local police forces regularly profess a determination to be harsh on drug dealing, and organised crime. A cursory look at the website of NSW Police reveals the tough stance the law enforcement agency has against commercial dealers, manufacturers, importers, and exporters of illicit drugs. According to the National Drug Strategy, the NSW Police Force should:
> Advertisement
> ...


----------



## DB008 (10 October 2012)

How much money is wasted on policing marijuana in Australia? Probably billions each year.

Legalise it, tax it, stop wasting money on police enforcing a century old law. Anybody, and I mean 'anybody' can get marijuana in Australia. It's easy as pie. 

Why not legalise it and get the Government to actually make money off it? 

To me, it's like having an empty investment property that is costing a bucketload each year in repayments, with no tenants. Legalising marijuana (and collecting GST/taxes from sales), would be like having a positive geared property. Rent is paid plus extra = Savings in police/court/prison costs and money from taxes coming in. 

Progressive Latin America.



> *How Latin America May Lead the World in Decriminalizing Drug Use*
> 
> Even as the countries of the hemisphere are at the forefront of the war against narcotraffickers, they are also pushing alternative strategies--including the legalization of drugs, particularly marijuana.
> Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina has never been soft on crime. The 30-year military veteran rose to power last year on the wings of his law-and-order platform, crystalized in his campaign slogan: “Iron fist, head, and heart.” And he recently approved the creation of two military bases, outfitted with 2,500 soldiers, to guard against the growing presence of drug cartels that have turned Guatemala into a trafficking corridor and fueled some of the world’s highest murder rates.
> ...




and




> While no Latin American nation has legalized drugs yet, several have taken steps to decriminalize narcotics. Argentina introduced a measure in congress this year that would decriminalize the possession of all drugs for personal use. Chile’s congress, meanwhile, is contemplating a bill that would decriminalize the cultivation of marijuana for personal use. And a Colombian court recently upheld a law that decriminalizes the possession of small amounts of cocaine. Like Mexico, Colombia has also decriminalized the possession of small amounts of marijuana.
> 
> But no country has proposed more drastic reform than Uruguay. President JosÃ© Mujica’s center-left Broad Front party introduced a measure this summer that would not only legalize marijuana consumption, but also place the government at the helm of production and distribution. The bill, which would allow citizens to purchase up to 40 grams of cannabis per month, materialized as the tiny nation of 3.5 million inhabitants scrambles to battle drug-related violence.
> 
> http://world.time.com/2012/10/09/how-latin-america-may-lead-the-world-in-decriminalizing-drug-use/#ixzz28s3Que42




(By the way, I don't smoke or take any drugs, unless prescribed by a doctor for health)

**Just found this...interesting
Pot Tax Has $1.4B Potential in California


----------



## DB008 (12 October 2012)

Just came across this

[video=vimeo;49976070]http://vimeo.com/49976070#[/video]


----------



## DB008 (16 October 2012)

Article from 'The Guardian'




> *Decriminalise drug use, say experts after six-year study*
> 
> Advisors say no serious rise in consumption is likely if possession of small amounts of controlled drugs is allowed
> 
> ...




Link


----------



## awg (17 October 2012)

Cant see too much chance of any Govt in Australia legalising marijuana.

* Stated reason; smoke related health damage and driving complications, so while they are trying to crack down on tobacco and alcohol, cant see legalise and tax being an option at all

* Australia is USA submissive

* far too much money is being made, I simply dont believe that amount of money could not find a way to frustrate any move to legislate anything that would dent profit

lol, just noticed post #96, sums it up


----------



## DB008 (8 November 2012)

Sorry, using my mobile, but Google this. 
"Colorado, Washington first states to legalize recreational pot" 

Interesting....


----------



## Sean K (8 November 2012)

Trademyshoes said:


> Crappy Ecks, long term usage leads to physical damage to the body.



I thought that was just the impurities (non MDMA) that did the damage.


----------



## Sean K (8 November 2012)

DB008 said:


> Progressive Latin America.



Two things they may gain. 1. Better security. 2. Increased tax revenue through the regulation of production. It's in Latin Americas best interest to go down this path.


----------



## So_Cynical (8 November 2012)

DB008 said:


> Sorry, using my mobile, but Google this.
> "Colorado, Washington first states to legalize recreational pot"
> 
> Interesting....




Amazing really...the US in some ways is really setting the standard for modern real world living, Pot, Gay Marriage, anti discrimination... except of course for gun laws.


----------



## DB008 (8 November 2012)

Surprised?
People vote, politicians knock it back...




> *Marijuana legalization victories could be short-lived*
> 
> (Reuters) - Votes making Colorado and Washington the first U.S. states to legalize marijuana for recreational use could be short-lived victories for pot backers because the federal government will fight them, two former U.S. drug control officials said on Wednesday.
> 
> ...




Link
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-usa-marijuana-votes-idUSBRE8A705E20121108


----------



## DB008 (15 November 2012)

State Legislators in Rhode Island and Maine Are Announcing Marijuana Legalization Bills Tomorrow



> State legislators in Rhode Island and Maine will announce bills tomorrow to legalize recreational marijuana, a spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project announced today.
> 
> Rhode Island Rep. Edith Ajello and Maine Rep. Diane Russell will hold a conference call tomorrow with the Marijuana Policy Project to announce the legislation.
> 
> _Correction: This post originally said that the bills would be introduced tomorrow. They will be announced tomorrow, and introduced when legislative sessions begin._




http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/14/state-legislators-in-rhode-island-and-ma


----------



## DB008 (18 November 2012)

*Marijuana domino effect*

*Marijuana domino effect*



> Less than two weeks after Washington and Colorado voted to legalize and regulate cannabis, lawmakers in five other states say they are considering similar bills.
> 
> In Latin American, Mexican President Felipe Calderon says Uncle Sam now has lost the “moral authority” to ask other nations to maintain the cannabis prohibition and combat trafficking.
> 
> ...







> *Washington State thinks there’s a half-billion a year in tax revenue waiting to be harvested and everyone understands the black market must be dismantled.
> 
> Legalization will mean kids aren’t saddled with lifelong criminal records, our communities will be rid of illegal grow-operations and gangs will lose a key profit centre.
> 
> It is estimated the U.S. could save $7.7 billion by legalizing pot and generate another $6 billion by taxing it at the same rate as alcohol and tobacco*




http://www.vancouversun.com/Mulgrew+Drug+dominoes+begin+topple/7555366/story.html#ixzz2CWiO65aC


----------



## DB008 (19 November 2012)

> *Half grow pot for health*
> 
> The Australian November 19, 2012 12:00AM
> 
> ...




Link - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/half-grow-pot-for-health/story-e6frg8y6-1226519160624


----------



## DB008 (23 November 2012)

This, today.




> NSW inquiry on medical use of marijuana
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-23/nsw-inquiry-on-medical-use-of-marijuana/4387620


----------



## DB008 (25 November 2012)

Good doco on Medical Marijuana


----------



## DB008 (25 November 2012)

Interesting

60 minutes (USA) - Medical Marijuana: Will Colorado's "green rush" last?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50133577n


----------



## DB008 (25 November 2012)

I think I've done my dough on this thread.

Unless something happens in the near future (ie, Medical Marijuana, further relaxation of the laws or decriminalisation), I'll leave this. 




> *‘War on drugs a lost cause’*
> 
> By Luis Feliu
> 
> ...






Australian Crime Commission Website (Link here)

Report by Chapter Index
Link to relevant data (here)

http://www.crimecommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/files/IDDR/2010-11/iddr-2010-11-cannabis.pdf
 (Screen Shot from Report)


----------



## Sean K (4 December 2012)

This is pretty much as expected. Drug does less harm to people and society than alcohol, and many others, yet it lands you in jail.

*Dancing with Molly*
December 4, 2012
Eileen Ormsby

Health experts say it is less harmful than alcohol, so why is ecstasy illegal?

HAVE you seen Molly? She makes me want to dance. The posters plastered on walls around Melbourne are often met with a nudge and a wink by club goers. "Molly" is the slang term for MDMA, better known as ecstasy. And it makes a great number of Australians want to get on the dance floor.

Taken mainly as a party drug, ecstasy causes the user to be more energetic and alert. It lowers aggression and anxiety, leads to euphoria and creates increased empathy and a sense of intimacy with others. According to a 2010 government report, one in 10 Australians over age 14 has used it, the highest per capita rate in the world.

At first glance, this seems alarming – hundreds of thousands of people using a drug that carries the same classification as heroin or crystal meth. But is this alarm warranted? If ecstasy were a legal and available alternative to alcohol, would the social and moral and health consequences be cause for concern?


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dancing-with-molly-20121203-2ar04.html#ixzz2E1Kg2Ryi


----------



## prawn_86 (4 December 2012)

Great artivle kennas. Particularly love the quote:


> "these issues have no credibility among young people when we preach about them on moral grounds".




I know of a lot of people who enjoy MDMA and know it doesnt harm society in anyway (except by supporting organised crime) so don't view it as bad or illegal. How can somehting with no recorded fatalities (pure MDMA) be considered worse than alcohol or other illegal drugs?

If drugs policy was based on scientific evidence then you would have a much more open debate


----------



## DB008 (5 December 2012)

Ireland



> THE legal use of cannabis in medicines is to be introduced next year.
> 
> The Irish Independent has learned that the Department of Health is bringing in legislation to legalise medicinal cannabis.
> 
> ...




http://www.independent.ie/national-news/medicinal-cannabis-available-here-in-the-next-year-3311517.html


----------



## Julia (5 December 2012)

"7.30" this evening - report on how dealing via online drug site "The Silk Road" is flourishing.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3648415.htm

Sounds fantastic for drug fans, but how do they know what they're actually consuming?
I suppose the same question is valid for local purchases.

There seems to be a very cavalier attitude toward the potential harm of consuming god knows what.


----------



## DB008 (5 December 2012)

Julia said:


> "7.30" this evening - report on how dealing via online drug site "The Silk Road" is flourishing.
> http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3648415.htm
> 
> Sounds fantastic for drug fans, but how do they know what they're actually consuming?
> ...






Julia, this stuff is related to the PM I sent you some time ago, re; Silk Road.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-05/dark-internet-linked-to-drug-seizure-spike/4410872



> To protect its illegal trade, the site uses complex masking software and money exchanges.
> 
> Users have to download an encryption network, and the only money allowed is Bitcoin - an online currency that also hides purchasers' identities.
> 
> ...




Silk Road is only able to be visited by using the TOR browser.
(TOR browser)
...and the address for silk road, l'm sure you can work the rest out....

Funny how these guys who are part of the TOR network and onion, are also Assange supporters.


----------



## prawn_86 (6 December 2012)

Julia said:


> Sounds fantastic for drug fans, but how do they know what they're actually consuming?
> I suppose the same question is valid for local purchases.
> 
> There seems to be a very cavalier attitude toward the potential harm of consuming god knows what.




My understanding is that it has an ebay style feedback rating for sellers. There are quite a few articles online about it if you have a search around.

Basically if a seller was to sell dodgy goods then they would receive negative feedback and people would no longer buy from them. Obviously there would be some fraud etc due to anonymous nature of the whole system.

To me it seems safer than buying it off some random guy that is a dealer for a friend of a friend of a friend and has no accountability or intent for repeat business.

With regards to your second comment, if things were legalised then people wouldn't be consuming 'god knows what'


----------



## Gringotts Bank (6 December 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Great artivle kennas. Particularly love the quote:
> 
> 
> I know of a lot of people who enjoy MDMA and know it doesnt harm society in anyway (except by supporting organised crime) so don't view it as bad or illegal. How can somehting with no recorded fatalities (pure MDMA) be considered worse than alcohol or other illegal drugs?
> ...




I think if we were starting from scratch, we'd make alcohol illegal and MDMA legal (prescription only).  It's much safer and less costly to society.  But you can still come to grief with MDMA.  When the brain and nervous system is flooded with serotonin, the body can overheat to the point of causing organ shut down and death.  I know that doesn't happen frequently, but it's a drug and people respond very differently.  Then how do you sell it when it's potentially lethal? 

MDMA was used very successfully by a couple of psychiatrists in the US in the 80's (in session only - couples therapy).  Maybe that's the way it should be used now - to fix broken relationships.


You can see this drug shouldn't be publicly available outside of prescription.
(from wikipedia)

Upon overdose, the potentially serious serotonin syndrome, stimulant psychosis, and/or hypertensive crisis, among other dangerous adverse reactions, may come to prominence, the symptoms of which can include the following:

    Psychological
        Disorientation and/or confusion
        Anxiety, paranoia, and/or panic attacks
        Hypervigilance or increased sensitivity to perceptual stimuli, accompanied by significantly increased threat detection
        Hypomania or full-blown mania
        Derealization and/or depersonalization
        Hallucinations and/or delusions[34]
        Thought disorder or disorganized thinking
        Cognitive and memory impairment potentially to the point of retrograde or anterograde amnesia[35]
        Acute delirium

    Physiological
        Myoclonus or involuntary and intense muscle twitching
        Hyperreflexia or overresponsive or overreactive reflexes[36]
        Tachypnoea or rapid breathing and/or dyspnea or shortness of breath
        Palpitations or abnormal awareness of the beating of the heart
        Angina pectoris or severe chest pain, as well as pulmonary hypertension (PH)[37]
        Cardiac arrhythmia or abnormal electrical activity of the heart
        Circulatory shock or cardiogenic shock
        Vasculitis or destruction of blood vessels[38]
        Cardiotoxicity or damage to the heart[39]
        Cardiac dysfunction, arrest, myocardial infarction, and/or heart failure[40][41][42]
        Hemorrhage and/or stroke[43][44]
        Severe hyperthermia, potentially resulting in organ failure[45][46]
        Syncope or fainting or loss of consciousness
        Organ failure (as mentioned above)
        Possible brain damage
        Coma or death


----------



## prawn_86 (6 December 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> When the brain and nervous system is flooded with serotonin, the body can overheat to the point of causing organ shut down and death.  I know that doesn't happen frequently, but it's a drug and people respond very differently.  Then how do you sell it when it's potentially lethal?




Do you know of any cases of this happening with pure MDMA? My understanding is that the above, and serotonin syndrome, occur when taking ecstacy and other other adulterants in the pill (caffeine, speed, pcp, piperazines etc) combine to create this over-heating

A lethal dose of MDMA is about 50 grams if i remember correctly, which would be impossible to consume unless done at once.

The above list of side affects could be given to just about any drug


----------



## Gringotts Bank (6 December 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Do you know of any cases of this happening with pure MDMA? My understanding is that the above, and serotonin syndrome, occur when taking ecstacy and other other adulterants in the pill (caffeine, speed, pcp, piperazines etc) combine to create this over-heating
> 
> A lethal dose of MDMA is about 50 grams if i remember correctly, which would be impossible to consume unless done at once.
> 
> The above list of side affects could be given to just about any drug




I think it's quite rare, but the case of Anna Wood was very public when it happened. ( I know you're going to say it was the water, which is true, but was she trying to cool down an over-heated body?)

Most of those others drugs you mention don't increase serotonin levels directly... maybe PCP does, don't know enough about it.

Say it's legal.  Now those 13 year old delinquents who pass out from alcohol binging on a weekend... they get onto this and their immature nervous systems don't cope.

edit:  In general I'm in agreement that as far as mind altering drugs go, it's probably pretty harmless so long as it's pure, taken infrequently, and in the correct dosage.


----------



## Tink (6 December 2012)

I feel sorry for the emergency services having to put up with this daily - whether its legal or not, it would still be a problem.


----------



## DB008 (7 December 2012)

Mariujana is now legal in Colorado and Washington, USA.


----------



## Julia (7 December 2012)

DB008 said:


> Mariujana is now legal in Colorado and Washington, USA.



With various conditions.


----------



## DB008 (7 December 2012)

Julia said:


> With various conditions.




Better than what we have here at the moment....


----------



## McLovin (8 December 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> ( I know you're going to say it was the water, which is true, but was she trying to cool down an over-heated body?)




I think blaming ecstasy for overheating is like saying you died of hypothermia after getting drunk. They both affect body temperature but it's rare that that change causes death. The reality is that thousands of people do drugs every single weekend and there are few purely ecstasy related deaths. Go to a festival this Summer and see just how "healthy" drugs are. Something like cocaine is far, far worse for you.

Waste of money trying to stop people accessing drugs. The proof: We see all those high profile drug busts on TV and yet the street price hasn't changed in years. 12 years ago pills were $50 now they're $25-30. Cocaine was $300, now it's $300. How much of my tax money has been wasted in the interim?


----------



## Sean K (10 December 2012)

*Rethinking our attitude to drugs*

Focusing on health rather than criminality is the best way forward.

Michael Short
10 Dec 12

ILLICIT drugs are widely viewed with fear and loathing. Parents, in particular, are understandably terrified their children will become addicted to headline-grabbing horrors including heroin and methamphetamine and crack cocaine. Alcohol and other drugs are known to be extremely hazardous to the developing brains of young people.

The apprehension is endlessly fuelled by stereotypical images of dishevelled, desperate drug users roaming the streets.

While the fear of addiction is rational, the widespread demonisation of drug use is often hypocritical and borders on collective hysteria. The reality is that most people who use drugs - legal and illegal - do so recreationally and relatively safely.

The issue is further blurred by the arbitrary distinction between permitted and prohibited substances. This can create a false sense of security - for example, alcohol is legal, but can cause enormous damage.

Beyond that, the burgeoning misuse of, and trade in, prescribed drugs, particularly pain medications and tranquilisers, is potentially overtaking illicit drug misuse as a social and health concern. 

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/rethinking-our-attitude-to-drugs-20121209-2b3dn.html#ixzz2EaUbHdTc


----------



## DB008 (10 December 2012)

kennas said:


> *Rethinking our attitude to drugs*




Doesn't help when the media outlets are biased and skew their own articles for ratings. 


Go to YouTube, and search for - 

Drivers On Cannabis: Fox News Caught Faking Again

I would provide the link, but I'm in Hong Kong at the moment using a clapped out old mobile, lol.


----------



## DB008 (14 December 2012)

WOW



> *Outrageous HSBC Settlement Proves the Drug War is a Joke*
> 
> Breuer this week signed off on a settlement deal with the British banking giant HSBC that is the ultimate insult to every ordinary person who's ever had his life altered by a narcotics charge. Despite the fact that HSBC admitted to laundering billions of dollars for Colombian and Mexican drug cartels (among others) and violating a host of important banking laws (from the Bank Secrecy Act to the Trading With the Enemy Act), Breuer and his Justice Department elected not to pursue criminal prosecutions of the bank, opting instead for a "record" financial settlement of $1.9 billion, which as one analyst noted is about five weeks of income for the bank.
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (19 December 2012)

It's like the Berlin Wall over in the USA regarding marijuana prohibition....




> *The Next Seven States To Legalize Pot*
> 
> Why Oregon, California and more are likely to follow Colorado and Washington toward legalization
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (28 December 2012)

Interesting




> *MDMA could be effective in treating post-traumatic stress disorder – study*
> 
> Illegal drug commonly known as ecstasy reduces PTSD symptoms, doesn't harm memory and concentration, or induce drug abuse, researchers find
> 
> ...




http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/dec/27/mdma-ecstasy-post-traumatic-stress-disorder


----------



## DB008 (15 January 2013)

This one seems to be doing the rounds.




> Prime Minister Julia Gillard: Re-legalise & regulate Cannabis for personal, medical & industry use in Aus
> 
> The illegal drug industry is a multi-billion dollar a year industry, all of the profit going to criminals and dangerous organizations. If cannabis were legalised and regulated, the cannabis black market would be entirely eliminated and the immense expenditure on both the war on drugs and the sale of drugs could be turned to far more practical applications like the health & educational systems.
> 
> https://www.change.org/petitions/prime-minister-julia-gillard-re-legalise-regulate-cannabis-for-personal-medical-industry-use-in-aus?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=url_share&utm_campaign=url_share_after_sign


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 January 2013)

On the west upper verandah of the hotel here in South Townsville, when we get the sea breezes, you don't even need to buy it.

It just requires a deep inhale. 

Full 90% of folk in ST must be smoking yarndie. It's become a basket weaving suburb now, with the rich able to smoke it not just on pension day, but everyday.

It should be legalized, like cohibas.

gg


----------



## sydboy007 (16 January 2013)

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein 

i think it was Pablo Escobar who said it didn't mater how much of the cocaine he sent to the USA was interdicted.  he received the same amount of $ whether 100% ot just 0.01% of his product made it across the border.

I'm 50:50 if we need to change the laws.

I definitely believe the warnings about drugs need to be made in a more realistic manner.  A lot of it is just not, well it's based on the 1% rather than on the harm minimisation that needs to be at the forefront of thinking.

AFAIC if Alcohol and Tobacco are legal then probably small quantities of other drugs should be decriminalised too.

IF you look at how the gay community handles the issue - don't be afraid to get help and just be honest with why your friend is sick

Compared against a lot of young "main stream" people who are too afraid to get help until it's too late.

I'd say dabbling in drugs has been around since gunga was discovered,  fermented fruit was eaten, and well it seems like teenagers will always feel invincible.

Prohibition for alcohol was a complete failure, and it's been a complete failure for any other type of drug.

personally i think the Govt would be better off making some of it themselves, selling quality pharmaceutical grade product at a highly taxed price, along with some form of mandatory counselling and drive out the shoddy dealers peddling lethal product.  

Yes, take responsibility for ya actions, but I'd prefer it wasn't lethal or permanently life altering.

nb: I've dabbled in the illegal side of the fence, had my fun and moved on.  Always say it can be fun, but NEVER EVER think it's REAL!


----------



## DB008 (17 January 2013)

CNN Article



> More and more Americans want pot legal
> 
> (CNN) -- Last week, my op-ed in favor of cannabis legalization ran on CNN.com. This week marks three years since I first wrote that marijuana should be legal. I'm amazed at how the debate has changed in just a few years.
> 
> ...


----------



## sydboy007 (17 January 2013)

DB008 said:


> CNN Article




I believe in California the State Govt is going to legalise it but then leave it up to the counties to decide if they will allow the sale of it and to what extend they will tax it.

Considering California's debt is over 10 times the Aust Fed Govt's I can see the $$$$ signs sparkling in some county officials eyes.


----------



## prawn_86 (17 January 2013)

I still fail to see how/why a state can have a legislatipon that directly goes against federal laws. Does this occur anywhere in Aus?

Not that i am against it, the US legal system is just baffling


----------



## DB008 (18 January 2013)

Saw this and thought that it was interesting and related to this thread. 



Canadian Liberal Party webpage



> Getting smart on crime and cannabis
> 
> Conservatives have failed.
> Liberals know the difference between being tough on crime and being smart on crime.
> ...


----------



## sydboy007 (18 January 2013)

DB008 said:


> Saw this and thought that it was interesting and related to this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Canadian Liberal Party webpage




Walking around Couver last October I think smoko-clock was around 4pm - same time as it became tripple high beam cold.

A few people said the police have better things to do that pick up someone smoking a joint.


----------



## DB008 (18 January 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Walking around Couver last October I think smoko-clock was around 4pm - same time as it became tripple high beam cold.
> 
> A few people said the police have better things to do that pick up someone smoking a joint.




4:20

Known as the 'International Standard Time' for lighting up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)



> The earliest use of the term began among a group of teenagers in San Rafael, California in 1971.[2][3] Calling themselves the Waldos,[4] because "their chosen hang-out spot was a wall outside the school,"[5] the group first used the term in connection to a fall 1971 plan to search for an abandoned cannabis crop that they had learned about.[4][6]
> 
> The Waldos designated the Louis Pasteur statue on the grounds of San Rafael High School as their meeting place, and 4:20 p.m. as their meeting time.[5] The Waldos referred to this plan with the phrase "4:20 Louis". Multiple failed attempts to find the crop eventually shortened their phrase to simply "4:20", which ultimately evolved into a codeword that the teens used to mean pot-smoking in general.[6]


----------



## McLovin (18 January 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> I still fail to see how/why a state can have a legislatipon that directly goes against federal laws. Does this occur anywhere in Aus?
> 
> Not that i am against it, the US legal system is just baffling




Sure it can happen anywhere where there's a federal style of government. iirc, marijuana is a Federal issue in the US because they used the very broad _Interstate Commerce_ clause in the Constitution. Basically, if you make marijuana you might take it across state lines, which makes it a Federal issue. The state can't punish or remove a state trooper or other local law enforcement officer for enforcing federal law, but they can tell them to ignore it. Which then means the federal government needs to find its own police. Highly unlikely.

In Australia the Federal territories (ACT/NT) have decriminalised marijuana, while the states have kept it illegal. So yes, the differences do appear everywhere. If one state made it legal, I guess the Federal government here could use the same trade a commerce clause (s51 of our Constitution) to override the state's legilation.

I think people are finally waking up to what a waste of money and time the whole war on drugs  is.


----------



## DB008 (20 January 2013)

2 more States in the USA considering....

Hawaii - Aloha! Marijuana Legalization Bill Introduced in Hawaii

Indiana - Marijuana Decriminalization Bill Introduced in Indiana


> The bill would also permit the licensed production of industrial hemp, a non-psychoactive agricultural crop used to produce a wide variety of legal products.




Smart move.

HEMP can be used in so many ways. 

Paper
Fabrics
Textiles
Rope
Oils

Maybe Gillard could introduce a bill to help the farmers and allow them to grow hemp?

From what I've heard, it's next to impossible to get stoned of Hemp (equivalent of 2 telegraph poles would needed to be smoked).


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 January 2013)

DB008 said:


> 2 more States in the USA considering....
> 
> Hawaii - Aloha! Marijuana Legalization Bill Introduced in Hawaii
> 
> ...




Perhaps allow it just for boomers.

I believe the present hypo is 30 times stronger than myself and Bill Clinton didn't inhale in Little Rock in 1970. (I have the photos by the way to prove it).

For adolescents and teenagers it is quite dangerous to their developing brains.

So maybe a 50+ yo warning on the packs with proof of age required.

gg


----------



## DB008 (20 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I believe the present *hydro* is 30 times stronger than myself and Bill Clinton didn't inhale in Little Rock in 1970. (I have the photos by the way to prove it).




LOL.

Well, if it were regulated and open, you'd know exactly what you were getting.

THC + CBD percentages.

A quick Google search of 'Harborside Medical Center' - worlds largest medical marijuana dispensary doesn't look like the typical propaganda that is put out there by the 'Nay-Sayers'.... 



































Tons of videos on youtube.....


GG - This one is for you....


Welcome to Harborside Health Center



Now, doesn't that look more civilized than a some doggy drug deal?


Employ people - create jobs all the way from grower to user
Tax is paid multiple times along the way (growing equipment - soil, electricity, staff if it's a big growing nursery, if it's made into an edible - staff and then the POS end of the chain)
People know exactly what they are getting

I read somewhere that 'medical marijuana' is pulling in some very, very nice taxes for the states over there.

Just boggles my mind that if some states in the USA can do this, and normally, why can't we? Feels like we are stuck in the stone ages sometimes...


----------



## Sean K (20 January 2013)

DB008 said:


> Feels like we are stuck in the stone ages sometimes...



...frozen in fear by the brainwashed ignoramus.


----------



## DB008 (23 January 2013)

Texas relaxing penalties. Step in the right direction.

 Marijuana Penalty Reduction Bills Filed in Texas 



> AUSTIN, TX – Two separate Texan lawmakers have filed separate bills in the state legislature to relax marijuana laws in the Lone Star State, although the proposals stop short of decriminalization or the legalization of medical marijuana.
> 
> Representative Harold Dutton (D-Houston) has filed a penalty reduction bill that would reclassify possession of up to one ounce of marijuana from a Class B misdemeanor, which carries a maximum $2,000 fine and 180 days in jail, to a Class C misdemeanor, which carries a possible $500 fine and no jail time. While stopping short of decriminalization, the penalty reduction proposal would be significant for a state known to have some of the toughest drug laws in the country.




I think WA has the toughest laws in the country.


----------



## sydboy007 (23 January 2013)

DB008 said:


> Texas relaxing penalties. Step in the right direction.
> 
> Marijuana Penalty Reduction Bills Filed in Texas
> 
> ...




Ant time I've visited WA it's felt like the time tunnel


----------



## DB008 (23 January 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Ant time I've visited WA it's felt like the time tunnel




LOL.

It isn't that bad. Perth started to grow on me when I was living there. They still don't have Sunday shopping.....


----------



## DB008 (24 January 2013)

George Soros backs Guatemalan president's call to end war on drugs



> "Drug policy has endangered political stability and security in many countries, and not just in Latin America," he said, citing Mali as one of several African countries to suffer.
> 
> Soros told a press conference that austerity was encouraging politicians, even in the US, to rethink the war on drugs. "Incarceration is hugely expensive … The cost of alternatives is smaller than the cost of incarceration," he said.
> 
> The billionaire philanthropist was speaking alongside the Guatemalan president, PÃ©rez Molina, who announced that he would host a meeting of Latin American leaders to discuss the issue in June. The gathering will involve several groups including the Berkeley Foundation and Soros's own organisation. "Prohibition, this war on drugs, has seen cartels grow and the results are not what we looked for," Molina said. "There is a new trend towards drugs now – not war, but a new perspective and a different way of dealing with the problem."


----------



## DB008 (25 January 2013)

Off the internet....




> Dr Death: Fresh warning over the 'ecstasy' pill that kills
> 
> 
> Five UK people die from ecstasy containing PMA
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/national/dr-death-fresh-warning-over-the-ecstasy-pill-that-kills/story-fncynjr2-1226561826973

Simple solution.....


----------



## DB008 (31 January 2013)

Marijuana Legalization Bill Introduced in New Hampshire 



> CONCORD, NH ”” A group of five bipartisan lawmakers has introduced legislation that seeks to make New Hampshire the third state to legalize and regulate the adult use of marijuana.
> 
> http://www.thedailychronic.net/2013/15098/marijuana-legalization-bill-introduced-in-new-hampshire/


----------



## DB008 (2 February 2013)

Take note Australia....

Change has started.

USA
The Netherlands
South America 


*Czech Parliament Overwhelmingly Approves Medical Marijuana

Passes by 67-2 Vote, President Milos Zeman Expected to Sign Into Law​*


> PRAGUE ”” The Czech Senate Wednesday approved a bill allowing for the medical use of marijuana by an overwhelming margin of 67-2. The measure had already passed the lower house of parliament.
> 
> The bill passed with support from all the political parties represented in the parliament. Newly-elected Czech President Milos Zeman is expected to sign it into law.
> 
> ...





http://www.thedailychronic.net/2013/15154/czech-parliament-overwhelmingly-approves-medical-marijuana/


----------



## DB008 (3 February 2013)

> *Almost 40 drug arrests at music event*
> 
> Police have made 36 drug arrests at an electronic music event in Melbourne.
> 
> ...




Ok.

Problem has been identified, lets fix it...errrrr no, won't happen...

People (including the younger ones), will take drugs regardless at these big events.

In some clubs/events in Canada, there is free testing of pills at the event. Maybe something like this should be applied over here?


----------



## DB008 (3 February 2013)

Hmm....




> *Pot Legalization Could Save U.S. $13.7 Billion Per Year, 300 Economists Say *
> 
> More than 300 economists, including three nobel laureates, have signed a petition calling attention to the findings of a paper by Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron, which suggests that if the government legalized marijuana it would save $7.7 billion annually by not having to enforce the current prohibition on the drug. The report added that legalization would save an additional $6 billion per year if the government taxed marijuana at rates similar to alcohol and tobacco.
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (8 February 2013)

> *Medical Marijuana Brings $10 Million in Revenue for Michigan *
> 
> LANSING, MI ”” An annual report to the state Legislature as required by the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act shows that over $10 million in revenue was collected from administration of the state’s medical marijuana program in 2012, *more than double the cost of running the program.*




http://www.thedailychronic.net/2013/15353/medical-marijuana-brings-10-million-in-revenue-for-michigan/


----------



## DB008 (22 February 2013)

USA - Jared Polis talking to the head of the DEA - Michelle Leonhardt


----------



## DB008 (25 February 2013)

Our Right to Poison: Lessons from the Failed War on Drugs



> The global war on drugs has cost billions and taken countless lives -- but achieved little. The scant results finally have politicians and experts joining calls for legalization. Following the journey of cocaine from a farm in Colombia to a user in Berlin sheds light on why.








> In 2010, about 200 million people took illegal drugs. The numbers have remained relatively constant for years, as has the estimated annual volume of drugs produced worldwide: 40,000 tons of marijuana, 800 tons of cocaine and 500 tons of heroin. What has increased, however, is the cost of this endless war.
> 
> In the early 1970s, the Nixon administration pumped about $100 million into drug control. Today, under President Barack Obama, that figure is $15 billion -- more than 30 times as much when adjusted for inflation. There is even a rough estimate of the direct and indirect costs of the 40-plus years of the drug war: $1 trillion in the United States alone.
> 
> In Mexico, some 60,000 people have died in the drug war in the last six years. US prisons are full of marijuana smokers, the Taliban in Afghanistan still use drug money to pay for their weapons, and experts say China is the drug country of the future.


----------



## prawn_86 (25 February 2013)

DB008 said:


> Our Right to Poison: Lessons from the Failed War on Drugs




That is actually a very good, relevant and factual article. If only there were more like it amongst the mainstream media


----------



## prawn_86 (26 February 2013)

http://www.theage.com.au/technology...road-seller-does-a-runner-20130226-2f36q.html - Aussie Silk Road sellers sentenced and scamming...


----------



## DB008 (26 February 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> http://www.theage.com.au/technology...road-seller-does-a-runner-20130226-2f36q.html - Aussie Silk Road sellers sentenced and scamming...





This paragraph says it all -


> "Nevertheless, while there is a demand for its products and there are vendors willing to sell, there will likely continue to be some Australian buyers willing to take the risk, whether that is on Silk Road or any other dark-web marketplace," she said.




Government missing out on tax revenue right there.


----------



## DB008 (4 March 2013)

*Harvard Economist: Legalizing Drugs Suits Ideal of American Freedom*




> Harvard University professor Jeffrey Miron has advocated the legalization of drugs for decades. In a SPIEGEL ONLINE interview, he explains why prohibition is more dangerous than selling drugs in supermarkets.
> 
> 
> SPIEGEL: Mr. Miron, why should heroin, cocaine and marijuana be legal?
> ...




http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/harvard-economist-jeffrey-miron-on-why-drugs-should-be-legalized-a-886289.html


----------



## DB008 (6 March 2013)

*Hawaii Senate votes to decriminalize marijuana*

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/Hawaii-Senate-votes-to-decriminalize-marijuana/yiDcG2Dg10yKFkdu-G6Rsw.cspx



> It's up to state representatives to decide whether to decriminalize marijuana in Hawaii.
> 
> Tuesday senators unanimously passed a bill that would make marijuana possession a civil fine, not a crime.
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (11 March 2013)

*'PSY ACID': Teens rushed to hospital*

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/gangnam-style-drug-warning/story-fncynjr2-1226594845685#ixzz2NCcim5ln



> POLICE have issued a warning about a bad batch of LSD imprinted with an image of pop icon Psy doing a 'Gangnam Style' dance - after five teenagers were hospitalised at the weekend.
> 
> A 15 year-old-girl was rushed to hospital after taking the drug at a birthday party in Boambee East, near the NSW North Coast town of Coffs Harbour, on Saturday.
> 
> ...




Random reply to this on reddit - 


> Absolutely shocking article. LSD is active at the microgram scale whereas 'most' drugs are active at the milligram scale, so several orders of magnitude smaller. Therefore the risk of having something dangerous with the acid is lower as you only need consume a very small amount of whatever it is stored on. The quote about brain damage is BS in regards to acid as it has a low toxicity.
> 
> Just imagine if it were regulated. Those kids would likely have not got hold in the first place, and if they had it would have been pharmaceutical grade of known/measured quantity. Instead we have a police officer who is ignorant to medical knowledge spouting public health advice on a policy he helps perpetuate and make worse.. 'drug war logic'


----------



## chops_a_must (11 March 2013)

Acid is awesome.

Once a year, gets mays hit sorted.

Same with dmt.


----------



## CanOz (11 March 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Acid is awesome.
> 
> Once a year, gets mays hit sorted.
> 
> Same with dmt.




Yeah we used to do a once a year thing too, usually a float down the river or something out in the middle of nowhere. That way we couldn't hurt anybody and could be content being content to the extreme and laughing our asses off until our cheeks hurt for days.

CanOz


----------



## prawn_86 (12 March 2013)

Naughty boys, dont you know that you are therefore implicit in supply of and therefore War on Drugs and that you should be rounded up and put in prison to stop your demand


----------



## DB008 (12 March 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Acid is awesome.




I have tried LSD (in Australia) and Mushrooms (in Amsterdam) a few times in my life. A  while ago now.

My personal option  - everyone should try it at least once in their lifetime.



Short Vice doco - The Rise of Psychedelic Truffles in Amsterdam (slow to start, but gets better)





(Skip to about 3:30 for the doco the really get into the Psychedelic Truffle production)


----------



## DB008 (12 March 2013)

*Call for cannabis to relieve pain in NSW*

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/call-for-cannabis-to-relieve-pain-in-nsw/story-fn3dxiwe-1226594803997



> CANNABIS should be approved for medicinal use to help people suffering chronic pain, advocates have told a NSW parliamentary committee.
> 
> Cancer survivor Sally Crossing told a public hearing at parliament house on Monday it appeared self-evident that cannabis relieved pain for many sufferers.
> 
> ...


----------



## chops_a_must (12 March 2013)

DB008 said:


> I have tried LSD (in Australia) and Mushrooms (in Amsterdam) a few times in my life. A  while ago now.
> 
> My personal option  - everyone should try it at least once in their lifetime.
> 
> ...





Awesome.

I do enjoy my mushies.

Have never done them in Europe though.

Had a big cocaine bender in Barcelona. I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 March 2013)

DB008 said:


> I have tried LSD (in Australia) and Mushrooms (in Amsterdam) a few times in my life. A  while ago now.




I don't get it.  You've done LSD and yet you're very anti-religion.  Most people who do it (in big enough doses) will understand what others are talking about when they refer to 'God'.    Acid will switch off the internal dialogue in the same way that meditation and certain types of prayer will.

I understand most religions are perverted beyond their original form, but a good old fashioned ego death should cause you to at least feel some sympathy for the great spiritual texts.

Or is it more that you're anti-fundamentalism than anti-religion?


----------



## chops_a_must (12 March 2013)

Dafuq?


----------



## CanOz (12 March 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Dafuq?




LOL, as in what dafuq you talking about?


----------



## DB008 (12 March 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I don't get it.  You've done LSD and yet you're very anti-religion.  Most people who do it (in big enough doses) will understand what others are talking about when they refer to 'God'.    Acid will switch off the internal dialogue in the same way that meditation and certain types of prayer will.
> 
> I understand most religions are perverted beyond their original form, but a good old fashioned ego death should cause you to at least feel some sympathy for the great spiritual texts.
> 
> Or is it more that you're anti-fundamentalism than anti-religion?




How would Christopher Hitchens act while on LSD?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 March 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Dafuq?




You don't get it?

Try a bigger dose.  But first read up on what to expect.  (Timothy Leary's work or just Google:  acid + 'ego death').


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 March 2013)

DB008 said:


> How would Christopher Hitchens act while on LSD?




I guess he'd be like anyone else - shocked, awed and gobsmacked....and inspired enough to launch into a proper study of what the great spiritual masters were talking about.  Since he's now had a taste of it, it will make sense to him, when before it didn't.


----------



## CanOz (12 March 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> You don't get it?
> 
> Try a bigger dose.  But first read up on what to expect.  (Timothy Leary's work or just Google:  acid + 'ego death').




Interesting GB, and here I thought it was just all about laughing your ass off...


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> Interesting GB, and here I thought it was just all about laughing your ass off...




Yeh I find it very interesting.  Timothy Leary's book is a free download I think...somewhere.
EDIT: http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content...c-Experience-The-Tibetan-Book-Of-The-Dead.pdf 

But most modern day guys who have achieved extraordinary states through meditation or prayer will say that they regret their earlier experimenting with psychedelics.  They say it opens the mind up too abruptly and that can cause instability and sometimes psychosis.

When I say to chops "try a bigger dose" I don't really mean that seriously.  Some people seem to get away with it, others end up in a strange place that they can't seem to escape.


----------



## CanOz (12 March 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Yeh I find it very interesting.  Timothy Leary's book is a free download I think...somewhere.
> 
> But most modern day guys who have achieved extraordinary states through meditation or prayer will say that they regret their earlier experimenting with psychedelics.  They say it opens the mind up too abruptly and that can cause instability and sometimes psychosis.




Yeah i think i would prefer to do it through meditation....

My days of LSD are decades behind me now! lol!

CanOz


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 March 2013)

Allow me to save you 20 years of searching for correct meditation instructions, because wrong instruction will mess you up.  Ramana and Nissagardatta - both practised Advaita, or something very similar (a non-dogmatic modern version).


----------



## CanOz (12 March 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Allow me to save you 20 years of searching for correct meditation instructions, because wrong instruction will mess you up.  Ramana and Nissagardatta - both practised Advaita, or something very similar (a non-dogmatic modern version).




Thanks mate...if i ever get that far i'll look this up again!


----------



## Tink (13 March 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I guess he'd be like anyone else - shocked, awed and gobsmacked....and inspired enough to launch into a proper study of what the great spiritual masters were talking about.  Since he's now had a taste of it, it will make sense to him, when before it didn't.




I have never done drugs, and have no interest in drugs, but GB, thanks for sharing.


----------



## McLovin (13 March 2013)

Well this thread got interesting! People on 'shrooms, going on cocaine benders, CanOz watching spiders crawl up walls on LSD. 

Shock horror: People do drugs and still lead normal lives! Won't someone please think of the children!!!


----------



## DB008 (16 March 2013)

LOL!



> *Anti-Weed N.Y. Assemblyman Steve Katz Charged With Possession*
> 
> Westchester County Republican Assemblyman Steve Katz was pulled over yesterday morning for speeding and hit with a possession charge when an officer recognized the distinct smell of marijuana. "He was alone and cooperative," said the police, who ticketed him for a small baggie and going 80 in a 65 mph zone. Katz was oddly arrested twice for allegedly mishandling dogs when he worked as a veterinarian, but both cases were dismissed. Last year, he voted against legalizing medical marijuana, although maybe this will be his Portman moment. The assemblyman sits on Assembly committees for Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, as well as Higher Education.
> 
> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/steve-katz-assemblyman-charged-with-marijuana-possession.html


----------



## DB008 (21 March 2013)

*'Legalise pot, boost grog tax'*



> FORMER federal health minister Neal Blewett has called for the decriminalisation of cannabis and ecstasy, and a tax on alcoholic drinks according to their strength.
> 
> At an international strategy conference in Sydney yesterday attended by the commissioners of every police force in the nation, Dr Blewett, one of the architects of Medicare and Australia's first national drug policy, also called for alcoholic drinks to carry explicit warnings similar to those on cigarettes.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/legalise-pot-boost-grog-tax/story-e6frg8y6-1226601968652


----------



## awg (21 March 2013)

whats the deal with this "Kronic" stuff (for those that dont know its a mixture of smokeable herbs)

its openly for sale..I hear now at servos even.

in the local area, there is a woman runs a shop, she used to open at 8.30, then 7.30, now 6.00am !..cause so many peeps were lined up..must be highly addictive.

I thought they made it illegal, but apparently they changed the formula.

apparently its more expensive than street marijuana, my mate reckoned it is heavily abused by many dudes that work in drug-tested industry and he reckons it is pretty strong and gets you wacked, affecting some far more than others


----------



## DB008 (21 March 2013)

awg said:


> whats the deal with this "Kronic" stuff (for those that dont know its a mixture of smokeable herbs)
> 
> its openly for sale..I hear now at servos even.
> 
> ...




All I heard was some kid who got hospitalized off it recently.




> *Not That High​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/marijuana_potency_returning_smokers_want_mellower_pot_strains.single.html


----------



## DB008 (26 April 2013)

*States Push to Get the Most Out of Marijuana Taxes*



> DENVER ”” If marijuana is legalized and properly regulated, its proponents have long said, it could generate millions of dollars in state tax revenue. But how the drug should be taxed has proved to be a thorny question.






> *Under the proposal, the first $40 million collected from a 15 percent excise tax would be used to build public schools. Revenue from a 15 percent sales tax imposed, in addition to the state’s 2.9 percent sales tax and any local sales tax, would be apportioned to local governments and for enforcement.*




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/us/colorado-considers-marijuana-tax.html?smid=go-share&_r=1&


----------



## sydboy007 (27 April 2013)

DB008 said:


> *States Push to Get the Most Out of Marijuana Taxes*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why not.  It's not like the Fed or State Govts have the cajones to actually raised taxes.

Currently all it does is enrich gangs and criminals.  Better to have the state decriminalise it, allow a household to have 1 plant for self use, and then regulate those who grow and distribute.

Set the licences at a reasonable level, set 50% of the tax revenue aside for drug education and the rest into providing decent services.

I don't want hydro setups all around suburbia, but I also don't see why all that money should go to the darker side of society either.


----------



## DB008 (15 May 2013)

Oh well.....came close, even though there was a *"cross-party parliamentary committee unanimously recommending the move".*



> *NSW government not convinced by marijuana report*
> 
> The New South Wales Government has hinted it is unlikely to allow terminally ill people to legally use small amounts of marijuana, despite a cross-party parliamentary committee unanimously recommending the move.
> 
> ...







> A parliamentary inquiry has recommended that terminally ill patients and people with AIDS be allowed to legally possess and use up to 15 grams of marijuana for medical purposes.




If I had AIDS or was terminally ill, l would try marijuana for pain relief regardless of what the law states.

What would you do, if you had AIDS or were terminally ill?


----------



## DB008 (16 May 2013)

DB008 said:


> Oh well.....came close, even though there was a *"cross-party parliamentary committee unanimously recommending the move".*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Meanwhile in Europe...



> *Czech pharmacies begin selling medical marijuana*
> 
> Medical marijuana legally went on sale Tuesday in pharmacies across the Czech Republic for patients suffering from cancer, Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis or psoriasis.
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (19 May 2013)

ABC story on shrooms...



> Magic mushrooms promise a long trip... to prison
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-16/magic-mushrooms-promise-long-trip-to-prison/4695012


----------



## Calliope (20 May 2013)

There is an increase in Australians who are "breaking bad".



> THE Australian drug market appears to be flooded with ice, with the average strength of the substance doubling in most jurisdictions within 12 months and the* majority of the 809 labs busted being small "addict-based" operations.*
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission's illicit drug data report, released in western Sydney today, reveals that in 2011-12 the largest amount of illegal substances were seized in a decade, driven by record successes in uncovering amphetamines, cocaine and steroids.
> 
> State and national police seized 23.8 tonnes of drugs during the year, but the commission conceded the supply of drugs could have grown faster than police had been able to seize them.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s-the-drugs-wave/story-e6frg6nf-1226646323941


----------



## DB008 (10 June 2013)

Well, this is interesting.


http://gazette.com/medicinal-marijuana-stops-seizures-brings-hope-to-a-little-black-forest-girl/article/1502070


----------



## DB008 (22 June 2013)

*Nation's $7b drug splurge*










> Australians are splurging more than $7 billion a year on illicit drugs, reaping huge rewards for manufacturers and dealers.
> 
> The spending, revealed by Australian Bureau of Statistics research, dwarfs the amount devoted to fighting the drug scourge and helping addicts.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sean K (22 June 2013)

I'm surprised that's $7b.

How much do you think alcohol and tobacco?


----------



## Sean K (22 June 2013)

Limited first Google search finds this:

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy/publishing.nsf/Content/34F55AF632F67B70CA2573F60005D42B/$File/mono64.pdf


----------



## DB008 (1 August 2013)

*Uruguay Takes Step Toward Full Pot Legalization*



> Uruguay's unprecedented plan to put the government at the center of a legal marijuana industry has made it halfway through congress, giving President Jose Mujica a long-sought victory in his effort to explore alternatives to the global war on drugs.
> 
> All 50 members of the governing Broad Front coalition approved the proposal in a party line vote just before midnight Wednesday, keeping a narrow majority of the 96 lawmakers present after more than 13 hours of passionate debate.
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (3 August 2013)

*Uruguay's pot legalization could be 'tipping point' in war on drugs*



> The decision by Uruguay lawmakers to legalize the possession and sale of marijuana could signal the beginning of the end for the increasingly unpopular U.S.-led war on drugs, experts say.
> 
> "Uruguay being the first nation to engage in legalization and alternative drug policy could be kind of a tipping point," says Nathan Jones, a post-doctoral fellow at Rice University's James Baker Institute for Public Policy in Texas.
> 
> ...




http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2013/08/01/f-pot-legalization-uruguay.html


----------



## DB008 (29 September 2013)

Finally, some common sense?


*'It is time to end the war on drugs', says top UK police chief*

Mike Barton, Durham's chief constable, says NHS 'could be used to supply addicts' and urges drugs policy revolution




> One of England's most senior police officers has called for class-A drugs to be decriminalised and for the policy of outright prohibition to be radically revised.
> 
> In a dramatic move that will reignite the debate over the so-called war on drugs, Mike Barton, Durham's chief constable, has suggested that the NHS could supply drugs to addicts, breaking the monopoly and income stream of criminal gangs.
> 
> ...




http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/28/time-end-war-drugs-uk-police-chief?CMP=twt_fd


----------



## sydboy007 (30 September 2013)

DB008 said:


> Finally, some common sense?
> 
> 
> *'It is time to end the war on drugs', says top UK police chief*
> ...




Certainly I'd like to see a change in policy.  We've had 3 or 4 decades of the war on drugs and the war is still ongoing.

I'd much rather see the government getting the revenue than the dealers.  

Use the money to come up with education campaigns that are believable.  Educate teenagers so they don't OD and die, or so they know the warning signs early enough to save a life.


----------



## DB008 (3 October 2013)

Canada Rolls Out a ‘$1 Billion’ Privatized Medical Marijuana Industry

Health officials expect it to become more than a $1 billion industry, but pro-weed advocates are unimpressed



> Marijuana was Canada’s newest mail-order product Tuesday, the inaugural day of a controlled medical marijuana industry that is expected to grow to more than $1 billion dollars within 10 years. But even as the new system privatizes distribution, critics fear regulation under the conservative-led government will make it harder for patients to get access to the drug.
> 
> In Canada, medical marijuana has been legal but highly regulated for more than a decade. Patients with doctor approval could grow or have someone else grow small quantities or request limited amounts from Health Canada, the national healthcare department.
> 
> ...




http://world.time.com/2013/10/02/canada-ushers-in-a-1-billion-privatized-medical-marijuana-industry/#ixzz2gdunchpO


----------



## DB008 (8 October 2013)

*The War on Drugs Is Over. Drugs Won. - Esquire*




> The world's most extensive study of the drug trade has just been published in the medical journal BMJ Open, providing the first "global snapshot" of four decades of the war on drugs. You can already guess the result. The war on drugs could not have been a bigger failure. To sum up their most important findings, the average purity of heroin and cocaine have increased, respectively, 60 percent and 11 percent between 1990 and 2007. Cannabis purity is up a whopping 161 percent over that same time. Not only are drugs way purer than ever, they're also way, way cheaper. Coke is on an 80 percent discount from 1990, heroin 81 percent, cannabis 86 percent. After a trillion dollars spent on the drug war, now is the greatest time in history to get high.
> 
> The new study only confirms what has been well-established for a decade at least, that trying to attack the drug supply is more or less pointless. The real question is demand, trying to mitigate its disastrous social consequences and treating the desire for drugs as a medical condition rather than as a moral failure.
> 
> But there's another question about demand that the research from BMJ Open poses. Why is there so much of it? No drug dealer ever worries about demand. Ever. The hunger for illegal drugs in America is assumed to be limitless. Why? One answer is that drugs feed a human despair that is equally limitless. And there is plenty of despair, no doubt. But the question becomes more complicated when you consider how many people are drugging themselves legally. In 2010 the CDC found that 48 percent of Americans used prescription drugs, 31 percent were taking two or more, and 11 percent were taking five or more. Two of the most common prescription drugs were stimulants, for adolescents, and anti-depressants, for middle-aged Americans.




http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/war-on-drugs-is-over?src=rss


----------



## Gringotts Bank (8 October 2013)

DB008 said:


> *The War on Drugs Is Over. Drugs Won. - Esquire*
> http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/war-on-drugs-is-over?src=rss




What do you make of this sentence DB?  "The hunger for illegal drugs in America is assumed to be limitless. Why? One answer is that drugs feed a human despair that is equally limitless".


----------



## McLovin (8 October 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> What do you make of this sentence DB?  "The hunger for illegal drugs in America is assumed to be limitless. Why? One answer is that drugs feed a human despair that is equally limitless".




BS. The majority of drug use is recreational. People want to have a good time. The same reason they drink alcohol.


----------



## DB008 (8 October 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> What do you make of this sentence DB?  "The hunger for illegal drugs in America is assumed to be limitless. Why? One answer is that drugs feed a human despair that is equally limitless".




I think that is an opinion, thrown into the story.

I think that there are now 25 out of 50 states (in the USA) that have decriminalized marijuana, and in 2 states it is completely legal (Colorado and Washington).

In Europe, 10 countries have deciminalized marijuana (Romania the latest, last week), Holland it's pretty much legal and Portugal they have also taken a different route when caught with drugs.

I think that we (ie, everyone) have to face up to the fact that prohibition has failed, just like the Alcohol prohibition did from 1920-1933 in the USA (and other various countries).

People will take drugs regardless.
People will also speed when driving a vehicle.
There are speed traps set up to catch people who speed.
The Government makes a fair bit of money out of speed cameras.
Why?
Because people speed.
People will also take drugs, regardless of our laws.
May as well cash in on it? No?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade


> A UN report said "the global drug trade generated an estimated US$321.6 billion in 2003."[1] With a world GDP of US$36 trillion in the same year, the illegal drug trade may be estimated as nearly 1% of total global trade. Consumption of illegal drugs is widespread globally.




(For the record, I don't take drugs. I also get tested regularly at work too)


----------



## Tink (8 October 2013)

Tell the nurses, the doctors and all ambos thats its recreational, after they have been punched, threatened with a knife, the list goes on....

Drugs clog up resources.


----------



## McLovin (8 October 2013)

Tink said:


> Tell the nurses, the doctors and all ambos thats its recreational, after they have been punched, threatened with a knife, the list goes on....




OK. And what will that achieve? I'm sure they know that already. Alcohol clogs up resources too. Don't see anyone trying to get that banned though.


----------



## DB008 (8 October 2013)

Tink said:


> Tell the nurses, the doctors and all ambos thats its recreational, after they have been punched, threatened with a knife, the list goes on....
> 
> Drugs clog up resources.




Yeah, but if you injected a few billion more into education (of people) and resources (more staff and better hospitals), would that make a difference?


----------



## Tink (9 October 2013)

I have already said my views in here -- is it working with alcohol?
How much more information can be put out there?

I think there is a problem in society when some people need to wipe themselves out on alcohol and drugs to have a good time.


----------



## DB008 (9 October 2013)

*Switzerland Decriminalizes Marijuana, Won't Prosecute For Small Amounts Of Weed*



> As of Oct. 1, possession of marijuana is decriminalized in Switzerland.
> 
> Anyone over the age of 18 caught with 10 grams or less of the drug will no longer have to make a court appearance and will not have offenses entered into their permanent record; instead, violators will have to pay a fine of 100 Swiss Francs (approximately $110), then be on their way.
> 
> ...




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/switzerland-decriminalizes-marijuana_n_4037400.html?utm_hp_ref=marijuana


----------



## DB008 (11 October 2013)

*Colorado farmer harvests first U.S. commercial hemp crop in 56 years*



> Colorado farmer Ryan Loflin made history last weekend by harvesting the nation's first commercial hemp crop in 56 years.
> 
> Hemp advocates said Loflin's harvest is a landmark event that could one day lead to larger-scale domestic farming of hemp for industrial uses such as food additives, cosmetics and building materials.
> 
> ...





http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24259474/colorado-farmer-harvests-first-u-s-commercial-hemp


----------



## DB008 (21 October 2013)

Well, this is surely interesting...

*Uruguay to legalize, harvest and sell Marijuana at one dollar per gram*



> MONTEVIDEO, URUGAY – The government of Uruguay sets to one dollar the price of a gram of marijuana, which the state will harvest and sell when parliament passes a law promoted by the government of Jose Mujica. This law seeks to combat drug trafficking in the country.
> 
> Although still lacking the pronouncement of the senators around the law, the government considered imminent vote for the project that also enables limited self-cultivation.
> 
> ...




http://hispaniolainfo.com/2013/10/?p=1822



*Uruguay plans to sell three marijuana cigarettes for a dollar*


> "Surely, in the second half of 2014 the system you can start to develop. Allow time to harvest and sell," he told El Pais in July Calzada, Secretary General of the National Drug Board .
> 
> The proposed legalization of marijuana has been partially approved in the Lower House, with 50 positive votes against 46 against and three absences. Now subtract a vote in the Senate, although according Calzada, this should not mean any problem.
> 
> ...




http://tinyurl.com/ordm99s


----------



## sydboy007 (25 October 2013)

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/10/supply-and-demand-the-changing-war-on-drugs/

_This is also evidenced in how increasing enforcement in order to make drugs harder to get and more expensive has been tried, and failed. In fact, over the last 40 years, the number of drug dealers in prison in the United States has increased by a factor of 15. The prices of heroin and cocaine have fallen by 90%._


----------



## prawn_86 (25 October 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> The prices of heroin and cocaine have fallen by 90%.[/I]




Not only that but purity of weed, coke and heroin is all up substantially over that period also. SO not only is it now cheaper, it is also more 'bang for your buck' so to speak.


----------



## McLovin (25 October 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> Not only that but purity of weed, coke and heroin is all up substantially over that period also. SO not only is it now cheaper, it is also more 'bang for your buck' so to speak.




We see Customs parading their latest catch on the TV every few weeks and yet despite that the price of drugs has not risen in 10 years. What a waste of money.

Cocaine in those US border states is ridiculously cheap. $20/gram in Texas, for example.


----------



## sinner (25 October 2013)

McLovin said:


> We see Customs parading their latest catch on the TV every few weeks and yet despite that the price of drugs has not risen in 10 years. What a waste of money.
> 
> Cocaine in those US border states is ridiculously cheap. $20/gram in Texas, for example.




Has it not become obvious through the various law enforcement efforts that Australian Customs is *directly involved* in the most hypocritical fashion in bringing the drugs in and keeping the price down?

This is just the latest in a long long string of mostly "swept under the rug" type revelations

http://www.smh.com.au/national/customs-officer-in-court-on-drug-charges-20130902-2t169.html


----------



## McLovin (25 October 2013)

sinner said:


> Has it not become obvious through the various law enforcement efforts that Australian Customs is *directly involved* in the most hypocritical fashion in bringing the drugs in and keeping the price down?
> 
> This is just the latest in a long long string of mostly "swept under the rug" type revelations
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/national/customs-officer-in-court-on-drug-charges-20130902-2t169.html




Do you think it's institutionalised? Personally, I don't. The problem to me seems to be low paid public servants and lots of money on offer to just turn the other way. It will always get a few.


----------



## sinner (25 October 2013)

McLovin said:


> Do you think it's institutionalised? Personally, I don't. The problem to me seems to be low paid public servants and lots of money on offer to just turn the other way. It will always get a few.




Not institutionalised, but definitely not as simple as the dismissive "it's just a few bad apples" would like you to think either.

Take a look at the Mark Standen case. Or the 1995 Royal Commission into NSW Police Force. Spend an hour on the "Police Integrity Commission" website.


----------



## McLovin (25 October 2013)

sinner said:


> Not institutionalised, but definitely not as simple as the dismissive "it's just a few bad apples" would like you to think either.
> 
> Take a look at the Mark Standen case. Or the 1995 Royal Commission into NSW Police Force. Spend an hour on the "Police Integrity Commission" website.




I agree. To be fair, the AFP seems to be the *cleanest* of all the agencies.


----------



## DB008 (2 November 2013)

*Marijuana Push in D.C. Spurs Congress to Weigh Legalizing*




> Growing support for legal pot and the billions in tax revenue and prison savings the change may bring has convinced some that Congress will ease laws.





http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-01/marijuana-push-in-d-c-spurs-congress-to-weigh-legalizing.html


----------



## DB008 (3 November 2013)

*Jose Mujica: 'I earn more than I need'*

*The man described as the world's 'poorest president' discusses Uruguay's move to legalise marijuana.*




> President Jose Mujica, the world's 'poorest' president, has surprised the world by making Uruguay the first country to entirely legalise marijuana.
> 
> A law already passed in the lower house of Congress and expected to pass in the Senate later this year would make Uruguay the first country in the world to license and enforce rules for the production, distribution and sale of marijuana for adult consumers.
> 
> Uruguay is hoping to act as a potential test case for an idea slowly gaining steam across Latin America - that the legalisation and regulation of some drugs could combat the cartel violence devastating much of the region.





http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2013/10/jose-mujica-i-earn-more-than-i-need-2013102294729420734.html


----------



## DB008 (25 December 2013)

*Uruguay’s neighbor Argentina now considering marijuana legalization*



> LIMA, Peru ”” Argentina has given the first sign that Uruguay’s groundbreaking cannabis reform just may have started a domino effect across Latin America.
> 
> Following the momentous vote by its smaller neighbor’s senate this month ”” making it the first nation in the world to completely legalize the soft drug ”” Argentina’s anti-drug czar Juan Carlos Molina has called for a public discussion in his country about emulating the measure.
> 
> ...




http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/24/uruguays-neighbor-argentina-now-considering-marijuana-legalization/


----------



## DB008 (30 December 2013)

*10 things to know about nation's first recreational marijuana shops in Colorado*



> Denver (CNN) -- Colorado will begin allowing recreational marijuana sales on January 1 to anyone age 21 or over.
> Residents will be able to buy marijuana like alcohol -- except the cannabis purchase is limited to an ounce, which is substantial enough to cost about $200 or more.
> It's a big moment: Colorado will become the first state in the nation to open recreational pot stores and become the first place in the world where marijuana will be regulated from seed to sale. Pot, by the way, is the third most popular recreational drug in America, after alcohol and tobacco, according to the marijuana reform group NORML.




http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/28/us/10-things-colorado-recreational-marijuana/index.html


----------



## CanOz (30 December 2013)

DB008 said:


> *10 things to know about nation's first recreational marijuana shops in Colorado*
> 
> 
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/28/us/10-things-colorado-recreational-marijuana/index.html




woo hoo...if I was into it (I'm not actually) I'd be off to visit my sister in :kifferenver for an extended stay!!!


----------



## sydboy007 (31 December 2013)

DB008 said:


> *10 things to know about nation's first recreational marijuana shops in Colorado*
> 
> 
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/28/us/10-things-colorado-recreational-marijuana/index.html




Makes sense.  Less money wasted on criminalising it, more money raised in taxes.


----------



## prawn_86 (31 December 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Makes sense.  Less money wasted on criminalising it, more money raised in taxes.




In theory the feds can still raid any of these shops/growers. Obama has said they wont bother, but a change in administration could change the current 'look the other way' policy


----------



## CanOz (31 December 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> In theory the feds can still raid any of these shops/growers. Obama has said they wont bother, but a change in administration could change the current 'look the other way' policy




Well that would raise the whole "states law" stuff again....touchy subject. It is kind of funny though, imagine those DEA guys in Colorado:cowboy:....are they happy they don't need to chase around potheads now or frustrated they're legal now?? lol....


----------



## DB008 (1 January 2014)

CanOz said:


> woo hoo...if I was into it (I'm not actually) I'd be off to visit my sister in :kifferenver for an extended stay!!!




+1
I don't smoke pot, but I am in full support of giving people the choice to do so, if they want to. 

http://www.colorado.gov/marijuanainfodenver


----------



## DB008 (3 January 2014)

LOL!

Straight off Reddit!


----------



## DB008 (4 January 2014)

*Marijuana shops enter second day of retail sales*



> DENVER - Pot shops did record sales compared to the "medical marijuana days" on Wednesday when recreational marijuana opened.* Pot shop owners across Colorado believe they collectively made more than $1 million statewide.*
> 
> Supporters, critics and other states are waiting to see what will happen in Colorado on day two and beyond. In Perth, Australia, headlines say "Move Over Amsterdam."
> 
> ...





http://www.9news.com/news/article/371498/339/Pot-sales-exceed-1-million-on-first-day


----------



## DB008 (5 January 2014)

*Peru calls for debate on the legalization of marijuana*



> In Peru the consumption of marijuana is legal and a citizen may carry up to 8 grams of the drug without being penalised. However, the production and sale of cannabis is still illegal under Peruvian law.




http://rt.com/news/peru-calls-marijuana-legalization-165/


----------



## DB008 (5 January 2014)

*Report: Cuomo to legalize medical marijuana in N.Y.*



> ALBANY, N.Y. ”” New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo will announce plans to legalize medical marijuana through an executive order, according to a published report Saturday.
> 
> Cuomo is expected to legalize medical marijuana on a limited basis at 20 hospitals for specific conditions, the New York Times reported Saturday evening. Cuomo will make the announcement during his State of the State address on Wednesday, the newspaper said, citing unnamed state officials.
> 
> The move would be a shift for Cuomo, who is up for re-election in November. As recently as April, he voiced opposition to the idea, questioning whether it could be properly regulated. But he also has said that he would keep an open mind on the issue, saying it is an "evolving one."





http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/04/report-cuomo-to-legalize-medical-marijuana-in-ny-/4321637/


----------



## DB008 (6 January 2014)

Just came across this.
Interesting.

*USPTO Patent and Database*



> *United States Patent	6,630,507*
> Hampson ,   et al.	 October 7, 2003
> **Please see images for: ( Certificate of Correction ) **
> Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants
> ...




http://tiny.cc/jeb98w


----------



## DB008 (11 January 2014)

*CNN - Alaska closer to becoming 3rd state to legalize recreational marijuana*




> (CNN) -- Marijuana prohibition laws are slowly going up in smoke.
> 
> An Alaska citizens' group is pushing to legalize recreational marijuana, which would make it the third state to do so after Colorado and Washington.
> 
> ...




http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/09/us/alaska-recreational-marijuana-push/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


----------



## DB008 (15 January 2014)

LOL!

Reported gets baked in a Limo (Grand-ma could have had a plan to hotbox the limo...), then she is on air. Skip to ~4:30 to see reporter.


*CNN Reporter Gets Stoned During Story On Colorado Legalization*


----------



## DB008 (18 January 2014)

Check out this idiot! Nutcase...

Mainstream media in the US. And people believe it....


----------



## DB008 (19 January 2014)

Not a bad segment from Al-Jazeera


*The marijuana economy*

Could legalising the drug really lead to less crime and more revenue for states and governments?




> Uruguay, not a country usually in the headlines, made a bit of history late last year when it became the first country in the world to legalise the growing, selling and consumption of marijuana.
> 
> Latin American nations have openly debated the legalisation of drugs as the US-led 'war on drugs' has widely been seen as a failure. Fed up with the crime and endless bloodshed, they hoped liberalisation would break the stranglehold of the drug cartels.
> 
> ...




http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2014/01/marijuana-economy-201411714278489780.html


----------



## DB008 (20 January 2014)

*Obama: Pot ‘not very different’ from cigarettes​, no more dangerous than booze*




> President Obama believes the legalization of marijuana in Washington and Colorado ultimately may open a Pandora’s Box and could lead to calls for cocaine, methamphetamine and other drugs to be sold freely and openly.
> But more broadly, the president downplayed the dangers of pot, comparing it to cigarettes and arguing it is no more dangerous than booze.
> 
> “As has been well documented, I smoked pot as a kid, and I view it as a bad habit and a vice, not very different from the cigarettes that I smoked as a young person up through a big chunk of my adult life,” Mr. Obama said in a lengthy interview with The New Yorker. “I don’t think it is more dangerous than alcohol.”
> ...




http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/19/obama-pot-not-very-different-cigarettes-no-more-da/


----------



## DB008 (22 February 2014)

*Colorado’s Marijuana Sales Projected To Reach $1 Billion Next Fiscal Year*



> Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper submitted a new budget proposal on Wednesday with guidelines for revenue use that allocates $45.5 million for the prevention of youth marijuana use out of a total revenue of $103.5 million.
> The governor’s office requested in particular $500,000 from the Marijuana Cash Fund be used to implement a youth marijuana education campaign with the aim to curb use of the drug.
> For the treatment of substance abuse $40.4 million was requested and for public health $12.4 million was requested.
> Prior to the new budget, $29 million had been allocated for law enforcement and public safety and the first $40 million collected from recreational marijuana taxes was put toward school construction.




http://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/colorado-requests-revenue-go-towarards-marijuana-youth-use-p


----------



## Tink (23 February 2014)

*Miller a sad reminder of damage done *



> IF you want to see the toll of illicit drugs, just look at the bloated face and glazed eyes of Scott Miller. The former Olympic golden boy of Australian swimming was a pathetic, slurring, drug-addicted mess when interviewed on 60 Minutes last week.




http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne.../story-fni0cwl5-1226834699063#social-comments


----------



## prawn_86 (23 February 2014)

Tink said:


> *Miller a sad reminder of damage done *




Police turning a blind eye is completely different to decriminalisation. It doesn't increase tax revenue or divert funds towards health and safety messages.


----------



## McLovin (23 February 2014)

prawn_86 said:


> Police turning a blind eye is completely different to decriminalisation. It doesn't increase tax revenue or divert funds towards health and safety messages.




I reckon...How about adjusting that paragraph



> IF you want to see the toll of alcohol abuse, just look at the bloated face and glazed eyes of Scott Miller. The former Olympic golden boy of Australian swimming was a pathetic, slurring, alcohol-addicted mess when interviewed on 60 Minutes last week.




At a guess I'd say there's many, many more alcoholics than drug addicts.


----------



## Tink (24 February 2014)

Maybe I should have posted the whole article 

_Meanwhile, Miller, 39, has been in rehabilitation in Melbourne and is living “week by week”, says an acquaintance.

That is the lot of a drug addict. You never say they have fully recovered. They are forever “in recovery”.

But if drug liberalisers such as former Australian Federal Police commissioner Mick Palmer and his new pals at the lobby group Australia21 get their way, a lot more drugs will be a lot more available for a lot more people to get hooked on.

Miller got into cocaine and ecstasy when he returned from the Atlanta Olympics, and found his home town of Sydney awash with drugs.

“First time I’d seen that sort of stuff. It was everywhere,’’ he said. He was 21 at the time.

Miller was right. Drugs were everywhere in 1996. A quasi-push for decriminalisation, under the guise of harm minimisation, meant police turned a blind eye.

Nowhere was this more evident than in the then-heroin capital of Australia, Cabramatta, in Sydney’s west.

“The best example of what can happen if you legalise drugs is Cabramatta,” says retired detective sergeant Tim Priest, who blew the whistle on the hierarchy’s inaction on drug crime in the late 1990s.

“Virtually it was decriminalised by lack of action. It was just zombieland in the ’90s, hundreds of addicts dying, vomiting, urinating, committing crimes.

Young people flocked to Cabramatta [to] give it a go . . . Police were powerless to act; you just had this free market. Along with that comes the shootings, the murders, the stabbings, the prostitution, the diseases ”” it’s not nirvana.

‘‘By legalising drugs, that’s what you get.”

But 1996 was also the year John Howard was elected prime minister. “I did not need any encouragement to embrace a zero-tolerance approach to illicit drugs,” he wrote in his autobiography.

“I refused to accept the argument that a tough and effective policy could not make inroads on such terrible habits as heroin and cocaine taking.”

At the end of 1997, he launched the Get Tough on Drugs campaign, headed by the Salvation Army’s Major Brian Watters, with the aforementioned Palmer as deputy.

It was an unmitigated success. Watters cites the number of heroin deaths, which plummeted from 1116 in 1999 to 374 by 2005.

“We were the only country with a heroin drought. More than 700 people a year were being saved from drug deaths.

“We worked on reducing the flow of drugs. But [the policy] was tough on drugs, not tough on drug users.”

For the first time in decades, drug use fell. Between 1998 and 2007, the use of cannabis halved, speed and ice fell 40 per cent, and heroin fell 75 per cent, according to the 2010 National Drug Strategy Household Survey. But by 2011, the trend had reversed.

“Over the last few years we’ve gone backwards again,” says Watters. “We’re not applying the things we learned that worked.”

The Tough on Drugs focus weakened especially after the retirement of Palmer’s successor as AFP commissioner, Mick Keelty, who had been its driving force.

Watters is disappointed Palmer has so drastically changed his tune on drugs, and says it is ridiculous to say we are losing the “war on drugs”, because we never had a war. We had a balanced approach, very much like Sweden.”

Ah, Sweden, the bane of the drug liberaliser. Learning from its disaster of extreme permissiveness in the 1960s, Sweden has moved to a zero tolerance regime that includes coercive rehabilitation. The result is the lowest drug use in Europe.

That means fewer young people exposed to drugs, fewer experimenting, and fewer who wind up like Scott Miller.

“It made me happy,” Miller said of his ice habit. “But whereit ends is not a happy place.”

Let’s hope he can stop taking drugs. But obviously it’s better not to start._


----------



## prawn_86 (24 February 2014)

Tink said:


> Maybe I should have posted the whole article




I did read the whole article and dont see how any rational person can link decriminalisation to police turning a blind eye as they mention happened in that article


----------



## DB008 (1 April 2014)

*Washington, DC Decriminalizes Marijuana*



> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - District of Columbia Mayor Vincent Gray on Monday signed a bill that decriminalizes possession of up to an ounce (28 grams) of marijuana in the U.S. capital, a spokeswoman said.
> The law makes possession a civil violation with a penalty of $25, lower than most city parking tickets. Possession had been a misdemeanor carrying up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.
> 
> Proponents had backed the measure as an issue of fairness. A study by the American Civil Liberties Union had shown that blacks in Washington were eight times more likely to be arrested for pot than people of other races.




http://www.businessinsider.com/r-washington-mayor-signs-marijuana-decriminalization-bill-2014-31?IR=T#!ChRtW


----------



## DB008 (11 April 2014)

*Marijuana stocks favoured by investors in emerging ‘dot bong boom’*



> IT’S been dubbed the ‘green rush’ or ‘dot bong boom’.
> 
> Speculative investors looking for the next big thing are piling their money into marijuana stocks, creating a blooming industry described by one analyst as the “single best investment idea of the next decade”.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/marijuana-stocks-favoured-by-investors-in-emerging-dot-bong-boom/story-e6frfmdr-1226880671046


----------



## DB008 (13 April 2014)

*Colorado legalized marijuana tax revs ahead of expectations: Moody's*



> (Reuters) - Colorado, the first state to tax legalized recreational marijuana sales, expects to bring in an estimated $98 million in revenue this year, exceeding the state's original expectations by 40 percent.
> 
> The state began levying sales and excise taxes on recreational marijuana on January 1, 2014. Moody's Investors Service, in a report released Friday, said legal sales in Colorado will reduce the size of the black market and revenue from legal sales will mean more tax payments flowing into state coffers.
> 
> The funds are slated for treatment, school construction and deterring young people from using the drug. School districts will likely get $40 million, or nearly 30 percent, of the projected $134 million in total marijuana tax revenues. New revenues will only make up 1.4 percent of the state's available general fund.




http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/11/us-colorado-marijuana-idUSBREA3A1X720140411?irpc=932


----------



## DB008 (15 April 2014)

First pot vending machine arrives in Colorado....


----------



## DB008 (15 April 2014)

*George Soros’ real crusade: Legalizing marijuana in the U.S.*



> Billionaire philanthropist George Soros hopes the U.S. goes to pot, and he is using his money to drive it there.
> 
> With a cadre of like-minded, wealthy donors, Mr. Soros is dominating the pro-legalization side of the marijuana debate by funding grass-roots initiatives that begin in New York City and end up affecting local politics elsewhere.
> 
> ...









http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/2/billionaire-george-soros-turns-cash-into-legalized/?page=all#pagebreak


----------



## DB008 (15 April 2014)

*Police smash multi-million dollar drug ring on Gold Coast*



> QUEENSLAND airport authorities have been left red-faced after an estimated $18 million worth of cannabis was smuggled from Victoria by a Gold Coast drug syndicate.
> 
> Police today revealed the syndicate, allegedly involving State Government workers, flew an estimated 1.5 tonnes of marijuana to Queensland in just eight months through Brisbane, Gold Coast and Townsville airports.





http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-smash-multimillion-dollar-drug-ring-on-gold-coast/story-fnihsrf2-1226884788708

I saw this on the new tonight.
The police head of the organised crime also said, "Marijuana is very, very dangerous, it should not be used, etc etc..."


Meanwhile

** Reality check **



> Cannabis remains illegal throughout the United States and is not approved for prescription as medicine, although 20 states”” Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington””as well as the District of Columbia approve and regulate its medical use. (The Federal government continues to enforce its prohibition in these states.)
> 
> However, the state of Maryland, which still explicitly bans the drug, enforces drug laws that are favorable towards the medicinal use of cannabis, making it a non-incarcerable offense with a maximum penalty of a $100 fine.[8] In the 2010 election, Arizona passed a referendum permitting the use of cannabis for medical purposes, and on May 20, 2011, Delaware became the 16th state to legalize medical cannabis after Governor Jack Markell signed medical marijuana legislation into law.[9




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States


***News just in...

*Maryland becomes 21st state to embrace medical marijuana*



> Here is what O’Malley said about the decriminalization bill:
> 
> “With more effective policing and more widely available drug treatment, together in Maryland, we have driven violent crime down to its lowest levels in 30 years. This progress has been hard-won and much remains to be done. Recent spikes in homicides and heroin overdose deaths underscore the life-saving urgency of the work before us.
> 
> ...




http://blog.seattlepi.com/marijuana/2014/04/14/maryland-becomes-21st-state-to-embrace-medical-marijuana/#14194103=0&14671101=0&20340105=0

Where is Australia ????

HEAD.IN.SAND.


----------



## DB008 (17 April 2014)

Some info on strains and what-not if anyone is using marijuana.

*Welcome to Leafly!*

*Explore the world's largest cannabis strain resource.

Browse and explore our library of cannabis varieties. Search based on type, effects, ratings and more. Find something you like and add it to your shopping list for later.*


http://www.leafly.com/


----------



## DB008 (19 April 2014)

Interesting....


*U.S. Legal Pot Sales To Hit $8 Billion A Year In 2018: Report*



> Combined sales of legal recreational and medical marijuana in the United States is projected to reach more than $8 billion in 2018. That's according to a new report by Marijuana Business Daily citing data from the Marijuana Business Factbook, which forecasts that the 2018 retail marijuana industry could see an estimated $7.4 to $8.2 billion in sales.
> 
> The projection is based on sales estimates from the state-legal medical and recreational marijuana markets that already exist, as well as 4-5 additional states that are expected to legalize recreational marijuana and 2-3 states expected to legalize medical marijuana by 2018.
> 
> ...




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/11/marijuana-industry-8-billion_n_5133863.html


----------



## DB008 (19 April 2014)

Interesting....

I think once they baby boomers move on and Gen X & Y have more say, things will change here.



*The New Politics of Pot: The 2014 Candidates Who Want to Legalize It*



> Forget decriminalization or medical marijuana. Bolstered by state ballot victories, top-tier contenders in 2014 are seeking full legalization, the drug’s highest-profile advocacy ever.
> 
> After a round of victories at the ballot box, the spliff is trying its make case at the statehouse””and on the stump.
> 
> ...



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/14/the-new-politics-of-pot-the-2014-candidates-who-want-to-legalize-it.html


----------



## sydboy007 (23 April 2014)

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/21/5636750/scared-of-legal-pot-hold-on-lets-talk-about-tobacco

_There are enough opiates prescribed in this country (USA) for every single adult to get 75 pills every year._

_Tobacco remains the leading preventable cause of death in this country. It still kills more than a thousand Americans everyday._


----------



## McLovin (23 April 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> http://www.vox.com/2014/4/21/5636750/scared-of-legal-pot-hold-on-lets-talk-about-tobacco
> 
> _There are enough opiates prescribed in this country (USA) for every single adult to get 75 pills every year._
> 
> _Tobacco remains the leading preventable cause of death in this country. It still kills more than a thousand Americans everyday._




That's why American women are so unstable. They all seem to be taking this, that or the other.


----------



## prawn_86 (24 April 2014)

McLovin said:


> That's why American women are so unstable. They all seem to be taking this, that or the other.




Yeh the amount of drug ads on tv over here is insane. So many people are taking pretty much permanent prescription drugs, yet they say that coke or mdma is bad


----------



## sydboy007 (24 April 2014)

prawn_86 said:


> Yeh the amount of drug ads on tv over here is insane. So many people are taking pretty much permanent prescription drugs, yet they say that coke or mdma is bad




regulate it, tax it, public health campaigns against it.

Oh and no advertising of the product either.

Possibly in a decade when most countries have deficits out the whazooo this might happen.


----------



## DB008 (3 May 2014)

*Ecstatic states: treating PTSD with MDMA*



What a brilliant video. Must watch.


----------



## DB008 (5 May 2014)

Marijuana is bad.

It should be banned forever.

It is evil, evil, evil.....




*Medical marijuana: Couple fears for daughter after supplier charged*



> Mia Mia parents Cheri and David O'Connell fear their daughter 'will die' if the supply of medical cannabis she relies on to control her severe epilepsy is stopped.
> 
> The couple's daughter Tara, 8, has Dravet Syndrome and suffered more than 100 life-threatening seizures a day before she started taking medical cannabis in 2012.
> 
> ...







> She said that before using the cannabis, Tara was suffering up to 200 seizures a day.
> 
> In 2012 Tara was resuscitated eight times and doctors warned that she may not live long past her seventh birthday, and shortly after this the O'Connells starting treating Tara with medical cannabis, as a last resort.
> 
> ...




http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/medical-marijuana-couple-fears-for-daughter-after-supplier-charged-20140503-zr40c.html#ixzz30owON5I6


----------



## DB008 (8 May 2014)

Great article in the financial times regarding the 'War on Drugs'.




> *A Futile War on Drugs that Wastes Money and Wrecks Lives*
> 
> _By George Soros_
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (11 May 2014)

Watch this!



Hopefully it will change your mind for the good.


----------



## DB008 (12 May 2014)

*Yale study: Alcohol’s gateway effect much larger than marijuana’s*



> A Yale study published Tuesday in the Journal of Adolescent Health found that people who used alcohol or tobacco in their youth are almost twice as likely to abuse prescription opiate drugs than those who only used marijuana.
> 
> Researchers were careful to specify that any youth substance abuse, including just marijuana use, makes people more than twice as likely to abuse prescription opiate drugs in young adulthood. However, the study’s authors noted that clinical data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health revealed that of the 12 percent of young adults who said they’d abused prescription opiates, “prevalence of previous substance use was 57% for alcohol, 56% for cigarettes, and 34% for marijuana.”
> 
> The Centers for Disease Control said in January that prescription opiate overdoses kill more Americans every year than cocaine and heroin overdoses combined.




http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/22/yale-study-alcohols-gateway-effect-much-larger-than-marijuanas/


----------



## DB008 (15 May 2014)

We had better keep this drug illegal here in Australia. It is evil. Stuff the kids with epilepsy having seizures...


*The Rise of Medical Marijuana for Kids*




> Treating young children with medical marijuana isn’t common, but it’s happening, and increasingly often. Several US states that have legalized the drug to some degree also allow it as an alterative treatment for kids and even toddlers with epilepsy””namely, as you may have guessed, Oregon, Colorado, and California. Now Illinois may be next on the list.
> 
> An Illinois House committee recently approved a measure for the use of medical marijuana to treat children with epilepsy, The full House will now vote on the bill, which comes on the heels of similar legislation in the works in Wisconsin, Florida, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania.






> The endocannabinoid system in the brain is what registers the psychoactive effects of pot on the brain, and is also the system that regulates the level of activity in the brain’s neurotransmitters, which are responsible for various psychological processes. In patients with epilepsy, these neurotransmitters are “firing all the time,” Goldstein said. Cannabidol, or CBD””one of 60 active cannabinoids in the cannabis plant””can help.
> 
> “By taking these canabanoids from the plant, you are triggering that endocanabinoid system and telling it to turn down the volume,” said Goldstein.






> Goldstein said she’s seen great success with CBD oil””about 70-75 percent of her patients saw a reduction in seizures, according to her early data. She pointed to  a 2013 National Institute of Health study published in the journal Epilepsy & Behavior that found similar results: 16 of the 19 children treated with CBD had decreased symptoms of epilepsy, and in two cases the epilepsy disappeared completely.




http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-rise-of-medical-marijuana-for-kids


----------



## DB008 (24 May 2014)




----------



## DB008 (25 May 2014)

*Colorado's Marijuana Legalisation Creates 10,000 New Jobs*



> Colorado’s marijuana legalization is quickly turning the state into one of the most prosperous places in the country. Not only has Colorado projected marijuana sales to be a billion dollar industry, but in January of 2014 alone, the state pulled in over $3.5 million in tax revenue from legal pot sales. If that trend continues, the state will enjoy an additional $40 million in tax revenue in the first year of legalization. But that’s not all – you know those dismal unemployment figures plaguing the nation? Not in states where pot is legal. Colorado is reporting 10,000 new jobs, all from the legalization of both recreational and medical marijuana.




http://www.nationofchange.org/colorado-s-marijuana-legalization-creates-new-jobs-1400941446


----------



## DB008 (27 May 2014)

There are now 2 policies I agree with "The Greens" - Medical Marijuana and Euthanasia

I can also relate as my uncle passed away from cancer last year. Leading up to his death he had no appetite, couldn't sleep well and was sick from chemo (after-effects).

*Greens launch medicinal cannabis bill*



> 'Rather than going down the process of creating a complex apparatus for supplying cannabis, we simply exempt those who've been certified by the department of health from prosecution' - Kaye
> 
> The NSW Greens MLC, John Kaye has launched a bill to protect people with a terminal illness who use cannabis from criminal prosecution.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2014/05/27/4013099.htm?site=newengland


----------



## DB008 (4 June 2014)

*Colorado Sells $19 Million in Cannabis in March: $1.9 Million Goes to Schools and Crime Down 10%*



> All the naysayers who were against marijuana legalization are eating crow about now. Colorado’s weed sales just keep trending up, and with the sales of legal weed, they are improving their schools and reducing overall crime rates.
> 
> Not counting medicinal weed sales, Colorado sold nearly $19 million in their recreational weed market in the month of March, and $1.9 million of that goes straight into government coffers and towards building schools. At this pace, according to PolicyMic, Colorado will make $30 million this year in pot taxes alone.




http://themindunleashed.org/2014/06/colorado-sells-19-million-cannabis-march-1-9-million-goes-schools-crime-10.html


----------



## DB008 (15 June 2014)

On Sunday Night - Channel 7 tonight.



> *The conversation Australia needs to have*
> 
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/blogs/a/24241563/the-conversation-australia-needs-to-have/




What I have been saying for the last few months, if not longer.

Australia is so slow to adopt medical marijuana laws while people suffer.


----------



## sydboy007 (16 June 2014)

DB008 said:


> On Sunday Night - Channel 7 tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Unfortunately the argument by a lot of Australian politicians is still that if you allow the young to try the 'soft" drug marijuana that it will lead to them getting addicted to the harder ones like heroine or coke.

Pretty much every study debunks that myth, but it just wont die.

Hopefully as the USA states that have legalised Mary Jane continue to provide very positive stats there will be enough agitation within the community to force our inept leaders to take some action.


----------



## DB008 (16 June 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Unfortunately the argument by a lot of Australian politicians is still that if you allow the young to try the 'soft" drug marijuana that it will lead to them getting addicted to the harder ones like heroine or coke.
> 
> Pretty much every study debunks that myth, but it just wont die.
> 
> Hopefully as the USA states that have legalised Mary Jane continue to provide very positive stats there will be enough agitation within the community to force our inept leaders to take some action.




I agree 100%.
I'm at work, but I'll put up some studies tonight that support this. The whole gateway drug stuff is a load of bulldust.


----------



## orr (16 June 2014)

DB008 said:


> On Sunday Night - Channel 7 tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I didn't see the programme, But i did sign the online petition the young bloke from Tamworth's mother started about 2 months back, and have been following its progress. One of the too few times Alan Jones puts his microphone to good use. 
With the unanimous results of a bipartisan parliamentary report handed in to the NSW State government finding that medical use of cannabis to people in this type of situation should be available, the lead footed actions by Jullian Skinner(nsw health minister) on this issue has the finger prints of Big Pharma all over it, and reflects on his and government in generals gutless nature
We can only hope that Miranda Devine throws herself out of a 12 story building in protest, at the passing of legislation to allow what should of been happening for decades.


----------



## DB008 (16 June 2014)

Marijuana Gate-Way Drug myth debunked



> ="http://www.mpp.org/assets/pdfs/li...p.org/assets/pdfs/library/GatewayDebunked.pdf
> 
> *Predictors of Marijuana Use in Adolescents Before and After Licit Drug Use: Examination of the Gateway Hypothesis Tarter, et al. American Journal of Psychiatry (2006)*
> 
> ...








> *Marijuana: The illegal medicine*
> 
> A former drug squad detective has spoken out about acquiring marijuana for his terminally ill son and fighting the government to legalise the drug.
> 
> ...






> Radio DJ Alan Jones regarding the Sunday Night program and his input. Well done. A right-wing radio shock jock sees the light. Wow.
> 
> http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/49136#.U560R42SyYl




2.8 million people voted 'Yes'. It's only a matter of time before the laws change.


----------



## sydboy007 (17 June 2014)

DB008 said:


> 2.8 million people voted 'Yes'. It's only a matter of time before the laws change.




Shame we don't have democracy like the Swiss.  We could have a referendum on these kinds of issues and have them resolved quick smart.  Alas we're stuck with politicians who rarely represent the will of the people.


----------



## DB008 (17 June 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Shame we don't have democracy like the Swiss.  We could have a referendum on these kinds of issues and have them resolved quick smart.  Alas we're stuck with politicians who rarely represent the will of the people.




I agree with you 100% on this issue.

Once the pollies see the $$$$ - it won't be long before legalization.

*Cannabis goes corporate: Dot-bong boom explodes as Big Marijuana flexes its muscles*



> Decades of marijuana prohibition are coming to an end, on the back of a sea change in public opinion. Twenty states have now voted to make the drug legal in one form or another.
> 
> Next month, Washington State will be the second state to fully legalise cannabis. New brands and products are flooding the market, for anyone over the age of 21 to buy and consume.
> 
> ...





*Texas will legalize medical marijuana in 2015 and regulate marijuana similarly to alcohol in 2017*

*Baker Institute Blog
Insight and analysis from the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University
*​



> Following the legalization of retail marijuana sales in Colorado and Washington, and medical marijuana in 22 states with more to follow, marijuana legalization appears inevitable ”” even in “law and order” states such as Texas. The question is no longer if Texas will legalize, but when? This question has important policy implications for incarceration costs, civil liberties and medical marijuana patients. In this Baker Institute Viewpoints series, five leading experts on marijuana reform examine the question, “When will Texas legalize marijuana?”
> 
> For medical marijuana, I predict Texas will pass legislation in 2015, though it will be very limited. A recent Kinder Institute poll found that 72 percent of Houston-area residents think we should fine instead of incarcerate people for possessing small amounts of the drug, and 65 percent think medical marijuana should be legalized. Sanjay Gupta’s CNN special report “Weed” brought attention to the benefits of medical marijuana, especially regarding children who use medical marijuana for epilepsy and other debilitating conditions. This was definitely an eye-opener for Americans ”” the public can no longer be told that marijuana has no medical value and be expected to believe it.






Foreign Correspondent on ABC tonight...


http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2014/s4024788.htm



> *Cannabis Inc.​*
> Very soon in America marijuana will be slickly branded and sold by men in suits - or at least the multi-million dollar companies they’re setting up to cash in on the state-by-state legalization of dope.
> 
> It’s happening in states that have long embraced a system enabling the dispensing of medical marijuana. Colorado’s gone legal. Next month Washington State will become the second state to fully legalise marijuana.
> ...


----------



## Julia (17 June 2014)

The Foreign Correspondent program this evening threw a quite different light on this.

Seems entirely likely that demand has been less driven by desperately sick 'medical marijuana' users, and perhaps more by Big Money.  Corporate America has, as one would expect, seen a wonderful opportunity to create ever more addicts and make billions in the process.

In their ideal world, anyone with the slightest pain or discomfort will become a candidate for their neatly packaged, totally legal product.  Whacko!  Just what we need.  A whole new generation of addicts.


----------



## prawn_86 (18 June 2014)

Julia said:


> The Foreign Correspondent program this evening threw a quite different light on this.
> 
> Seems entirely likely that demand has been less driven by desperately sick 'medical marijuana' users, and perhaps more by Big Money.  Corporate America has, as one would expect, seen a wonderful opportunity to create ever more addicts and make billions in the process.
> 
> In their ideal world, anyone with the slightest pain or discomfort will become a candidate for their neatly packaged, totally legal product.  Whacko!  Just what we need.  A whole new generation of addicts.




While I agree with legalization of drugs (the war on drugs is a proven failure) I am a little uncomfortable with designing new products and marketing them. I am unsure on the marketing rule sin Colorado and Washington, but I do not think they should be allowed to advertise (although cigarette co's still can here in the US)


----------



## Tink (18 June 2014)

Agree, Julia.

Seems to be a lot of depressed people in this country, all turning to drugs, and I am not just talking about marijuana, ice is a big problem also. 

We had a shocking case in the courts last week, a 21 year old, Harley Hicks. He got life for killing a baby in a burglary, with a 32 year minimum. He was on marijuana and ice. The most evil crime committed with no remorse whatsoever.

With this entitlement mentality, no responsibility, its a worry.


----------



## Julia (18 June 2014)

Equally, I was stunned to hear a researcher recently endorsing the use of Ketamine as an anti depressant.

She said (paraphrasing) 'rather than waiting some weeks for commonly used antidepressants to work, ketamine actually makes the depressed person feel better immediately'.

Well, duh!  Might as well just give them a hit of heroin or morphine!  Of course it will make them feel better.

Ketamine hydrochloride is an anaesthetic drug used by veterinarians and medical professionals.

The drug has hallucinogenic effects, which means that it changes thinking, perception of time and emotions, and seeing or hearing things that are distorted, or that do not exist at all. - See more at: http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/drug-facts/ketamine#sthash.P95JZLlY.dpuf

Its 'value' is apparently well recognised on the street.


----------



## McLovin (18 June 2014)

Julia said:


> The Foreign Correspondent program this evening threw a quite different light on this.
> 
> Seems entirely likely that demand has been less driven by desperately sick 'medical marijuana' users, and perhaps more by Big Money.  Corporate America has, as one would expect, seen a wonderful opportunity to create ever more addicts and make billions in the process.
> 
> In their ideal world, anyone with the slightest pain or discomfort will become a candidate for their neatly packaged, totally legal product.  Whacko!  Just what we need.  A whole new generation of addicts.




Americans are addicted to prescription drugs already. Some of them far worse than weed. Their whole health system is **** backward. Doctors are motivated by drug companies with free golf days and expensive holidays when they can move large amounts of certain drugs. Heck, as John Hempton pointed out, Fentanyl is agressively marketed in the US.



> I think I have found a new low in the pharmaceutical industry: giving away a month's free supply of potentially lethal high-grade opiods.
> 
> This ambitious marketing strategy allows more than enough time and supply to create addicts.
> 
> ...




http://brontecapital.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/get-your-opiates-for-free-capitalism.html

Given the choice between alcohol and marijuana. I'd argue marijuana is far safer. For one thing, no one has ever died of marijuana overdose. I'd have no issue with it being legally available, but sold by the government.


----------



## DB008 (27 June 2014)

*Ulverstone mum's cancer battle 'helped' by cannabis oil*



> TERMINALLY ill mother of three Natalie Daley uses cannabis oil to relieve her acute pain.
> 
> Not as a drug but as medicine, the Ulverstone woman believed the oil shrunk a tumour half the size in her lungs.
> 
> ...




http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/2381128/ulverstone-mums-cancer-battle-helped-by-cannabis-oil/?cs=86


----------



## boofhead (27 June 2014)

Natalie was interviewed on 7:30 Tasmania in the last half hour. I don't know how long ago it was recorded but she had no hair on her head.

Tight controls like with various other drugs should be managable. A Tasmanian company wants to have trials and are advocating it as a secondary pain relief, that is use more traditional painkillers before moving on to it if needed.


----------



## prawn_86 (28 June 2014)

prawn_86 said:


> While I agree with legalization of drugs (the war on drugs is a proven failure) I am a little uncomfortable with designing new products and marketing them. I am unsure on the marketing rules in Colorado and Washington, but I do not think they should be allowed to advertise (although cigarette co's still can here in the US)




Stuff like this is worrying to me:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-sack-marijuana-children-dangers-20140627-story.html


----------



## DB008 (7 July 2014)

*Legalise medicinal cannabis for terminal, chronic conditions: WA Opposition leader Mark McGowan*




> WA Opposition leader Mark McGowan has told the Labor Party's state conference that cannabis should be legalised for medicinal purposes.
> 
> Mr McGowan said people with terminal or chronic illnesses should be able to access medicinal cannabis in the form of tablets or sprays to ease their pain.
> 
> ...





http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-06/wa-opposition-leader-calls-for-cannabis-for-medicinal-use/5575330


----------



## sptrawler (7 July 2014)

DB008 said:


> *Legalise medicinal cannabis for terminal, chronic conditions: WA Opposition leader Mark McGowan*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





He will say anything to try and get votes.

Of my four kids, there is only one that is always harping on about legalising mull, funilly enough he is the only one using it.


----------



## Julia (7 July 2014)

Ok, so let's say we legalise cannabis for medical use.  What is then to stop every pothead in the country availing themselves of it, perhaps even on the PBS, by claiming that their intractable pain has failed to respond to all known currently legitimate analgesia, and therefore they must qualify for access to prescribed cannabis?

Already in the USA, in the States where it's legalised, the advertising and pharmaceutical firms have been busy with their rampant advertising on this wonderful new pain relief.


----------



## McLovin (7 July 2014)

Julia said:


> Ok, so let's say we legalise cannabis for medical use.  What is then to stop every pothead in the country availing themselves of it, perhaps even on the PBS, by claiming that their intractable pain has failed to respond to all known currently legitimate analgesia, and therefore they must qualify for access to prescribed cannabis?




There's nothing stopping every pothead in the country availing themselves of it today.Every week there seems to be a media conference with a new shipping container of <insert your favourite drug>  and yet the price of every illegal drug hasn't changed in about ten years. The Netherlands has had pot freely available for years and has a fairly low rate of cannabis use.



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Already in the USA, in the States where it's legalised, the advertising and pharmaceutical firms have been busy with their rampant advertising on this wonderful new pain relief.




But Australian regulations around medical advertising are far stricter than in the US. A few pages back I gave the example of fentanyl, an extremely dangerous that has been killing heroin addicts on the East Coast of the US for the last year or so, and addictive drug that is marketed with free samples in the US. I don't see why legalising medical cannabis (and I will admit it is defacto legalisation because there will always be a doctor who will write out a scrip) would change the laws around advertising?


----------



## banco (7 July 2014)

Julia said:


> Ok, so let's say we legalise cannabis for medical use.  What is then to stop every pothead in the country availing themselves of it, perhaps even on the PBS, by claiming that their intractable pain has failed to respond to all known currently legitimate analgesia, and therefore they must qualify for access to prescribed cannabis?
> 
> Already in the USA, in the States where it's legalised, the advertising and pharmaceutical firms have been busy with their rampant advertising on this wonderful new pain relief.




As long as the taxpayer isn't funding it who gives a ****?


----------



## drsmith (7 July 2014)

In the context of this discussion,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-calls-for-cannabis-for-medicinal-use/5575330

I would have thought the WA Labor opposition would have had greater policy areas to chew over given that the Barnett Government's ride hasn't exactly been smooth since the last state election.


----------



## sptrawler (7 July 2014)

drsmith said:


> In the context of this discussion,
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-calls-for-cannabis-for-medicinal-use/5575330
> 
> I would have thought the WA Labor opposition would have had greater policy areas to chew over given that the Barnett Government's ride hasn't exactly been smooth since the last state election.




Absolutelly, he is obviously trying the Rudd theory of appeal to everyone, even if you haven't any substance. He is an absolute goose, but then again with media backing he may well gain traction. But I doubt it.


----------



## boofhead (8 July 2014)

I haven't done much research but for controlling seizures etc. it isn't THC but a different component. That means strains can be developed that have THC low enough to not be desired by potheads. Such strains could be grown for medicinal uses and regulated.


----------



## Julia (8 July 2014)

McLovin said:


> There's nothing stopping every pothead in the country availing themselves of it today.Every week there seems to be a media conference with a new shipping container of <insert your favourite drug>  and yet the price of every illegal drug hasn't changed in about ten years. The Netherlands has had pot freely available for years and has a fairly low rate of cannabis use.






banco said:


> As long as the taxpayer isn't funding it who gives a ****?



You miss the point, or perhaps just decline to see it.   If the TGA were to approve cannabis for medical use, making it available via prescription on the PBS, that would likely inspire sudden, intractable back or other difficult to disprove pain on the part of so called recreational users, thus providing the taxpayer with the wonderful opportunity to fund their drug use.

If people are stupid enough to use a substance which has been clearly shown to have the capacity to potentiate latent schizophrenia and/or exacerbate that and other mental illnesses, then I suppose that's their business.
After all, if they become psychotic, the taxpayer will pay for that medication too.



> But Australian regulations around medical advertising are far stricter than in the US.



Of course they are and so they should be.  I didn't suggest the laws re advertising in Australia would be changed.   I said


> Already in the USA, in the States where it's legalised, the advertising and pharmaceutical firms have been busy with their rampant advertising on this wonderful new pain relief.



Who exactly is 'giving out free samples of fentanyl'?  It's an opioid much more potent than morphine.


----------



## McLovin (8 July 2014)

Julia said:


> You miss the point, or perhaps just decline to see it.   If the TGA were to approve cannabis for medical use, making it available via prescription on the PBS, that would likely inspire sudden, intractable back or other difficult to disprove pain on the part of so called recreational users, thus providing the taxpayer with the wonderful opportunity to fund their drug use.




Who said it would be on the PBS?

Then again, oxycodone seems to be the come down drug of choice these days, and it's on the PBS.



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Of course they are and so they should be.  I didn't suggest the laws re advertising in Australia would be changed.   I said




Sorry, I infered from your statement that you believed the same would happen here.



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Who exactly is 'giving out free samples of fentanyl'?  It's an opioid much more potent than morphine.




Here you go...First month free.

http://www.abstral.com/hcp-resources/voucher-copay-card


----------



## Julia (8 July 2014)

McLovin said:


> Who said it would be on the PBS?
> 
> Then again, oxycontin seems to be the come down drug of choice these days, and it's on the PBS.



It would be a logical progression if it's considered by the TGA to be medically necessary.
Meantime, thousands of people have to pay for what are now private prescriptions for life saving drugs because they've been culled from the PBS on the basis of relatively few people needing them. 



> Here you go...First month free.
> 
> http://www.abstral.com/hcp-resources/voucher-copay-card



That doesn't constitute a 'free sample'.  From what I can tell from your link the patient would have to have a doctor's prescription for the drug which would be available from various different pharmaceutical companies.
Presumably this is advertising from one of those companies which are competing for the legitimate medically prescribed business.

I don't care for it at all.  But that's how they do it in the US.  Hardly someone standing on a street corner, saying, "roll up, free sample of highly potent opiate derivative to anyone who wants it"!!


----------



## McLovin (8 July 2014)

Julia said:
			
		

> That doesn't constitute a 'free sample'. From what I can tell from your link the patient would have to have a doctor's prescription for the drug which would be available from various different pharmaceutical companies.
> Presumably this is advertising from one of those companies which are competing for the legitimate medically prescribed business.




What do you call giving someone a month's free supply of a powerful, highly addictive, dangerous drug? If someone is at the point of truly needing fentanyl they require it with or without the free supply. And then how do you know the drug has been legitimately medically prescribed, as opposed to just finding a doctor who will prescribe it after the patient saw the ad and the lure of free supply and shopped around?


Not trying to sound too argumentative here, Julia.


----------



## McLovin (8 July 2014)

McLovin said:


> And then how do you know the drug has been legitimately medically prescribed, as opposed to just finding a doctor who will prescribe it after the patient saw the ad and the lure of free supply and shopped around?




This is happening in rural NSW...And, speaking from experience, doctors in the US are much happier to prescribe drugs.



> FORMER FENTANYL USER: Most drug users just go themselves and get other people to go as well. Yeah, you just gotta - just tell the doctor it's for back pain. That's what I used to do. And, yeah, after a while you get to be able to pick the doctors surgeries that'll write it or most drug users all talk and, yeah, find out which doctor surgeries do it and which doctor surgeries don't. In the country towns, I have had six doctors at one stage.
> 
> JOHN STEWART: Dr Zador says that most doctors in country towns are aware of doctor shopping, but fentanyl is still being made available to drug addicts.
> 
> DEBORAH ZADOR: Most doctors do their best with patients who have pain. Most patients handle their medications responsibly, but there's always a small number of doctors and a small number of patients who will fall through the cracks and a lot of this problem can be brought about by a even just a small number of prescribers.




http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3813757.htm


----------



## DB008 (8 July 2014)

boofhead said:


> I haven't done much research but for controlling seizures etc. it isn't THC but a different component. That means strains can be developed that have THC low enough to not be desired by potheads. Such strains could be grown for medicinal uses and regulated.




It is in the youtube doco's I put up earlier.

Weed and Weed2 - There are kids with epilepsy who take marijuana oil - however, it is very low in THC but very high in CBD. The strain is named after a girl.



> *Charlotte's Web (cannabis)*
> 
> Charlotte's Web is a strain of medical marijuana processed into a marijuana extract[1] that is high in cannabidiol (CBD) content, called Realm Oil and Alepsia. It does not induce the psychoactive "high" typically associated with recreational marijuana use.
> 
> ...




Please watch - Video below.





After watching that, how can we say "no" ?

Sometimes I just shake my head and walk away when I think/realise how stupid the masses are....


----------



## Julia (8 July 2014)

McLovin said:


> What do you call giving someone a month's free supply of a powerful, highly addictive, dangerous drug? If someone is at the point of truly needing fentanyl they require it with or without the free supply. And then how do you know the drug has been legitimately medically prescribed, as opposed to just finding a doctor who will prescribe it after the patient saw the ad and the lure of free supply and shopped around?
> 
> 
> Not trying to sound too argumentative here, Julia.



The point is that a doctor has presumably assessed the patient and determined that there is a need for the drug.
Supplying one month without charge doesn't change that.  It's probably a common marketing ploy in a country which permits consumer advertising of pharmaceutical products.  I think it's crap, but I don't make the laws in the USA.

I don't know what you mean when you ask "how do you know the drug has been legitimately medically prescribed? "  Obviously if a patient has a genuine prescription from a registered medical practitioner then it has been legitimately prescribed.   

People have always doctor shopped.  They always will.  It's a case of policing the doctor, something which I can assure you does happen.  It just doesn't get publicised.

No problem with sounding argumentative.  I don't see your remarks as such ever.


----------



## DB008 (9 July 2014)

boofhead said:


> Natalie was interviewed on 7:30 Tasmania in the last half hour. I don't know how long ago it was recorded but she had no hair on her head.
> 
> Tight controls like with various other drugs should be managable. A Tasmanian company wants to have trials and are advocating it as a secondary pain relief, that is use more traditional painkillers before moving on to it if needed.







> *Charlotte's Web (cannabis)*
> 
> Charlotte's Web is a strain of medical marijuana processed into a marijuana extract[1] that is high in cannabidiol (CBD) content, called Realm Oil and Alepsia. It does not induce the psychoactive "high" typically associated with recreational marijuana use.
> 
> ...





*Hundreds line up for legal weed in Washington state*



> SURROUNDED by thousands of packages of marijuana, Seattle’s top prosecutor needed some advice: Which one should he buy?
> 
> A new day, indeed.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/hundreds-line-up-for-legal-weed-in-washington-state/story-fnkgdftz-1226983111022

*Take a close look at the picture.....*


----------



## Tink (10 July 2014)

*Australia comes top of global list for recreational drug use *

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...9b4a31f8ed34e88fc86601d3de332#social-comments


----------



## DB008 (15 July 2014)

CURRENT E-PETITION

Subject:	Legalising the production, processing and administration of medicinal cannabis
Eligibility:	Tasmanian Citizens
Sponsoring Member:	Bryan Green MP
Principal Petitioner:	Natalie Daley
 	c/o 64 Wilson St
 	Burnie
 	Tas 7320

Num of Signatures:	379
Posting Date:	14/07/2014
Closing Date:	18/08/2014


http://www.parliament.tas.gov.au/EPetitions/House/CurrentEPetition.aspx?PetNum=52&lIndex=-1


----------



## DB008 (15 July 2014)

This is crazy.

Cops to the rescue.

Tink, this must be music to your ears....

*Police raid Mernda home, seize medicinal marijuana oil parents used to treat son*



> CHIEF Commissioner Ken Lay says police were just doing their job when they entered a Melbourne mum’s home and confiscated cannabis oil that she was using to treat her son.
> 
> Epping Sexual Offences and Child Abuse police raided Cassie Batten and Rhett Wallace’s home in Mernda, 30km northeast of the CBD, on July 11.
> 
> ...






> “We’ve already seen some seizures,’’ Ms Batten said.
> 
> “It’s just a matter of time now until he ends up back in hospital.”
> 
> ...





http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/north/police-raid-mernda-home-seize-medicinal-marijuana-oil-parents-used-to-treat-son/story-fnglenug-1226985435941?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HeraldSunTopStories+%28Herald+Sun+%7C+Top+Stories%29&nk=18872c2f54e99acbb1000e4e8c46ea9c


----------



## Tink (16 July 2014)

DB, this isn't directed at you, its a general statement.

Why do they use these emotive cases to push to legalise drugs?
As has been stated, once legalised, the marketing targets the kids.
We are already the top in the world for recreational drugs and Mental Health is booming.
Who pays to look after these people when it all goes pear shaped.

I don't agree with these Greens policies for drugs and death.


----------



## sydboy007 (16 July 2014)

Tink said:


> DB, this isn't directed at you, its a general statement.
> 
> Why do they use these emotive cases to push to legalise drugs?
> As has been stated, once legalised, the marketing targets the kids.
> ...




* The current war on drugs has failed.  It has always failed. It will never succeed. Unless you have 100% success with interdiction and removal of drugs from the community all that happens is the price increases as supply decreases.  The money made by producers doesn't change.  The street price definitely increases and decreases based on the success of law enforcement, but it has relatively minimal impact on the risk / reward benefits for the suppliers.

* The war on drugs is expensive.  It clogs up the courts with trivial offences, it clogs up jails with relatively trivial offences.  It's likely costing us in the high hundreds of millions each year, though I doubt the state and federal governments would like the true cost known by the public.

* The war on drugs increases risks due to the underground nature of production that is forced to occur.  Legalise it and at least those choosing the use it will hvae quality control and minimised harm risks.

* The war on drugs generally only benefits the criminal element by making drugs involved a large premium for their illegality.  Treat drugs the same way as legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol and use the tax revenues to provide credible harm reduction measures to the community.  The left over funds can provided sorely needed funds for public health / schools / roads.  To give you an idea of the revenue that's possible, tobacco tax alone 2012-16 is likely to raise over $5B.  Tax currently illegal drugs and the users end up paying for the medical cots just like those imbibing and smoking currently do now (some would argue they actually pay more than the fair level of taxation).

* Decriminalise personal quantities - why make police waste their time arresting and charging someone for a joint or 1 ecky in their pocket?  Quite regularly at Redfern station there will be 5 or 6 police and a drug sniffer dog on a late afternoon.  No idea what the cost of that policing is - prob works out at $400+ an hour.  I doubt they've ever caught a big fish in all the years they've been doing it.

)ver 50 years of policy failure.  Surely it's time to take a different approach


----------



## prawn_86 (16 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> The street price definitely increases and decreases based on the success of law enforcement, but it has relatively minimal impact on the risk / reward benefits for the suppliers.




I agree with most of your points except for the quoted part. In a small market like Aus there can be a slight fluctuation in price if there is a major bust in the very short term. What usually happens however is quality is decreased and the product is sold at the same price.

Longer term, looking at markets outside of Aus, prices have actually gone down, despite inflation. Over the past 10 - 20 years prices are about the same, if not lower, and taking inflation into account this is a big reduction


----------



## McLovin (16 July 2014)

Julia said:


> The point is that a doctor has presumably assessed the patient and determined that there is a need for the drug.
> Supplying one month without charge doesn't change that.  It's probably a common marketing ploy in a country which permits consumer advertising of pharmaceutical products.  I think it's crap, but I don't make the laws in the USA.




I agree I think it's crap too. My overarching point is that a drug like this does not need to be marketed to consumers. If you're at the point of legitimately needing this drug, it should be your doctor who makes you aware of it. 



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> I don't know what you mean when you ask "how do you know the drug has been legitimately medically prescribed? "  Obviously if a patient has a genuine prescription from a registered medical practitioner then it has been legitimately prescribed.




I mean prescribed for a legitimate illness, rather than just to feed an addiction.



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> People have always doctor shopped.  They always will.  It's a case of policing the doctor, something which I can assure you does happen.  It just doesn't get publicised.




OK. But why can't this happen with medical marijuana? I guess I'm trying to reconcile your statements above with this from earlier...



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Ok, so let's say we legalise cannabis for medical use. What is then to stop every pothead in the country availing themselves of it, perhaps even on the PBS, by claiming that their intractable pain has failed to respond to all known currently legitimate analgesia, and therefore they must qualify for access to prescribed cannabis?




If people are doctor shopping for fentanyl, they will for cannabis, I have no doubt of that. But do you deny the legitimate users, or worse, for them onto the black market, because of the abuse of the system by others?


----------



## Julia (16 July 2014)

McLovin said:


> I mean prescribed for a legitimate illness, rather than just to feed an addiction.



I'm sure you don't seriously think someone addicted to marijuana in whatever form, if it were made legal as an analgesic, is going to rock up to the GP and say "hey, I love this stuff:  write me a script for it, willya?"

No, of course not.  They will present with claimed severe pain, if necessary accede to the doctor's suggestion that first they try something he would usually prescribe, then come back and claim it didn't work, and could they please see if "medical marijuana" would help with this intense, intractable pain.  No matter that no cause can be found for the pain, lots of pain has indeterminate origin.

So your recreational user gains 'legitimate' access to his drug of choice, and if on the PBS, the taxpayer funds it.



> If people are doctor shopping for fentanyl, they will for cannabis, I have no doubt of that. But do you deny the legitimate users, or worse, for them onto the black market, because of the abuse of the system by others?



I haven't seen any randomised, double blind, crossover, controlled trials on cannabis as an analgesic.
Certainly some individual anecdotes suggest it is useful for some people.  Such individual, uncontrolled experiences should never be sufficient for general approval of a drug for medical use.  
If proper trials are done and published in journals of high repute, then it would be time to think about what safeguards doctors need to have in place to prevent abuse as far as possible.


----------



## McLovin (16 July 2014)

Julia]I'm sure you don't seriously think someone addicted to marijuana in whatever form said:


> So your recreational user gains 'legitimate' access to his drug of choice, and if on the PBS, the taxpayer funds it.




Except as DB has pointed out, medical marijuana can have the bit that gets you high removed. If that is possible this whole disucssion becomes rather academic.

Make the Charlotte's web stuff PBS listed and make the other stuff available through pharmacies off the PBS and taxed the same as tobacco.


----------



## Tink (16 July 2014)

No, Syd, I would never agree to legalising drugs.
I see more harm than good in the outcome.

With our free society, unless that attitude changes with more responsibility, no way.
We have seen the effects of alcohol.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Julia (16 July 2014)

McLovin said:


> I think you know what I mean: One can fein illness and get a script.



Well, duh!  Just what I've now said several times!!

I've outlined in some detail how easy it would be for recreational users to feign illness so I have no idea why you're continuing in this vein.

Unless you and DB are pharmacologists, it might be good to leave it to those who are suitably qualified to do the necessary research before jumping up and down about it being delivered to the general public.
It usually takes more than ten years and financial investment in the millions to complete all the required clinical trials before the FDA or TGA will consider a new drug application.

When you have some of the previously described randomised, double blind trials proving cannabis to be more effective than other analgesics, then that's when there can be some legitimate interest.


----------



## DB008 (17 July 2014)

Tink said:


> DB, this isn't directed at you, its a general statement.
> 
> Why do they use these emotive cases to push to legalise drugs?
> As has been stated, once legalised, the marketing targets the kids.
> ...




I agree with your stance on protecting our kids - not just from marijuana (but only high THC strains, not the strains like Charlottes Web), but also other dangerous drugs, alcohol and tobacco. 

However, death (euthanasia), I totally disagree with you. How can you (or anyone else) dictate how I terminate my life? 

If someone has terminal cancer, is in hospital and in extreme pain....who are you (we/society) to not help them. If they want to pass away, let's do that, let's help them - not keep them alive in pain for days/weeks/months delaying the inevitable. 




> *Assisted dying: Church of England seeks inquiry*
> 
> The Church of England (CofE) has called for an inquiry into assisted dying.
> 
> ...


----------



## sydboy007 (17 July 2014)

DB008 said:


> However, death (euthanasia), I totally disagree with you. How can you (or anyone else) dictate how I terminate my life?
> 
> If someone has terminal cancer, is in hospital and in extreme pain....who are you (we/society) to not help them. If they want to pass away, let's do that, let's help them - not keep them alive in pain for days/weeks/months delaying the inevitable.




I always felt that those against assisted suicide have never sat next to a loved one racked with a terminal disease and had to just watch them waste away in agony.  I still can see my grandfather slowly dying from lung cancer.  It's a truly horrible death.  It's hard to really describe to someone, let alone convey the trauma it inflicts on everyone involved.  Most people would condemn you for keeping a pet alive in that kind of pain, yet we demand it for humans


----------



## DB008 (17 July 2014)

*Exposed: How Some of the Biggest Opponents of Marijuana Reform Are Protecting Their Own Bottom Line*



> So it’s more than a little odd that CADCA and the other groups leading the fight against relaxing marijuana laws, including the Partnership for Drug-Free Kids (formerly the Partnership for a Drug-Free America), derive a significant portion of their budget from opioid manufacturers and other pharmaceutical companies. According to critics, this funding has shaped the organization’s policy goals: CADCA takes a softer approach toward prescription-drug abuse, limiting its advocacy to a call for more educational programs, and has failed to join the efforts to change prescription guidelines in order to curb abuse. In contrast, CADCA and the Partnership for Drug-Free Kids have adopted a hard-line approach to marijuana, opposing even limited legalization and supporting increased police powers.
> 
> A close look at the broader political coalition lobbying against marijuana-law reform reveals many such conflicts of interest. In fact, the CADCA event was attended by representatives of a familiar confederation of anti-pot interests, many of whom have a financial stake in the status quo, including law enforcement agencies, pharmaceutical firms, and nonprofits funded by federal drug-prevention grants.
> 
> ...




http://www.alternet.org/drugs/exposed-how-some-biggest-opponents-marijuana-reform-are-protecting-their-own-bottom-line?paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark


----------



## DB008 (21 July 2014)

*Cannabis ‘could cut tumour growth’*



> CANNABIS could be used to reduce tumour growth in cancer patients, scientists have said.
> 
> New research reveals the drug’s main psychoactive ingredient - tetrahydrocannabino (THC) - could be responsible for its success in shrinking tumours.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/cannabis-could-cut-tumour-growth/story-fn5fsgyc-1226989066013


----------



## DB008 (27 July 2014)

*New York Times writes editorial saying cost of Marijuana prohibition ‘vast’ compared to alcohol, tobacco impacts*



> ONE of the United States’ most prestigious newspapers has called for the legalisation of marijuana, comparing the federal ban on cannabis to Prohibition.
> 
> In an editorial on Saturday, the New York Times said marijuana laws disproportionately impacting young black men and that addiction and dependence are “relatively minor problems’’ especially compared with alcohol and tobacco.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/world/new-york-times-writes-editorial-saying-cost-of-marijuana-prohibition-vast-compared-to-alcohol-tobacco-impacts/story-fndir2ev-1227003108628


----------



## orr (31 July 2014)

Again from the land of the over equipped over funded under scrutinised over zealous intellectually bereft politically manipulated  DEA. Sanity is slowly getting out of bed and putting its pants on. 
As much as it goes against my deep-rooted and finely honed proclivity toward policies steeped in racism that advantage 'olde whitey', I feel as though that the current budget has given me such a leg-up( just for a moment, let me roll in my multi $100k un-taxed super income for a few decades....Ahhh) I can let this one slide. 





http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/o...p-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region


----------



## DB008 (4 August 2014)

*Medicinal cannabis trial gets green light on Norfolk Island: Tasman Health Cannabinoids gets production licence*



> The Tasmanian company that applied to trial medicinal cannabis in the state has been given the go-ahead elsewhere.
> 
> Like Tasmania, Norfolk Island has an historic past that struggles financially and depends on assistance from the Commonwealth.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-01/medicinal-cannabis-trial-gets-green-light-on-norfolk-island/5642110


----------



## sydboy007 (4 August 2014)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/o...-the-great-colorado-weed-experiment.html?_r=0

Cannabis sales from January through May brought the state about $23.6 million in revenue from taxes, licenses and fees. That is not a huge amount in a $24 billion budget, but it’s a lot more than zero, and it’s money that was not pocketed by the black market.

The criminal justice system is righting itself. Marijuana prosecutions are way down across the state ”” The Denver Post found a 77 percent drop in January from the year before. Given the immense waste, in dollars and young lives, of unjust marijuana enforcement that far too often targets black men, this may be the most hopeful trend of all.

The striking thing to a visitor is how quickly the marijuana industry has receded into normality ”” cannabis storefronts are plentiful in Denver, but not obtrusive, certainly not in the way liquor stores often are. Marijuana-growing operations are in unmarked warehouses on the city’s industrial edges.

The ominously predicted harms from legalization ”” like blight, violence, soaring addiction rates and other ills ”” remain imaginary worries. Burglaries and robberies in Denver, in fact, are down from a year ago. The surge of investment and of jobs in construction, tourism and other industries, on the other hand, is real.

This is what the people of Colorado voted for overwhelmingly in amending the State Constitution in 2012 “to regulate marijuana like alcohol,” a shrewd frame that placed a major social shift firmly in the no-brainer category. 

The promise of Amendment 64 is a flood of tax revenue for education, drug abuse prevention and research ”” with as much as $40 million for school construction every year, and $10 million for studying marijuana’s therapeutic and medical benefits. In a state where medical marijuana has been legal since 2000, doing little evident harm, the move to legalize recreational use was seen by most voters as a sensible next step.

The state government began the year well prepared, swiftly erecting a system to regulate the new business and to enforce the web of laws that strictly limit where you can use cannabis, who can buy it and how products are made, marketed and sold. A digital inventory system tracks every plant “from seed to sale.” The law forbids public consumption and selling to those under 21. (Stings by state regulators recently found 100 percent of targeted shops in Denver and Pueblo complying with the underage law.) Police are cracking down on nuisance public-smoking violations but aren’t wasting time chasing otherwise-law-abiding users.


----------



## DB008 (24 August 2014)

*Vic Labor would legalise medical cannabis*



> Medicinal cannabis will be legalised in Victoria if Labor wins the November state election.
> 
> People who suffer terminal or life-threatening conditions will be able to access the drug in liquid or tablet form but smoking marijuana for medicinal purposes will not be decriminalised.
> 
> ...




https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24793834/vic-labor-would-legalise-medical-cannabis/


----------



## DB008 (26 August 2014)

*JAMA Internal Medicine*


*Medical Cannabis Laws and Opioid Analgesic Overdose Mortality in the United States, 1999-2010*



> *Importance*  Opioid analgesic overdose mortality continues to rise in the United States, driven by increases in prescribing for chronic pain. Because chronic pain is a major indication for medical cannabis, laws that establish access to medical cannabis may change overdose mortality related to opioid analgesics in states that have enacted them.
> 
> *Objective*  To determine the association between the presence of state medical cannabis laws and opioid analgesic overdose mortality.
> 
> ...




http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1898878


----------



## DB008 (17 September 2014)

*Tony Abbott backs legalisation of medical cannabis*



> Prime Minister Tony Abbott has thrown his support behind the legalisation of cannabis for medical purposes.
> 
> In a letter to talkback radio host Alan Jones, Mr Abbott went even further than NSW Premier Mike Baird – who has approved a clinical trial of the use of medical cannabis – by saying that no further testing should be needed on the drug if it is legal in similar jurisdictions.
> 
> ...




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-backs-legalisation-of-medical-cannabis-20140917-10i6eb.html#ixzz3DZWtyRN9


----------



## DB008 (24 September 2014)

*From outlaw guerilla to president, Uruguay's Mujica taught his tiny country how to think big*



> Jose Alberto Mujica has only a few months left as the head of this country. The constitution prohibits him from consecutive terms; once he hands over power, he plans to grow flowers, and teach young people to farm. At 79, after a life packed full of drama, he is due for a rest. He has accomplishments to savour.
> 
> And yet he leaves his country’s highest office without having accomplished all he had hoped. The President sees himself as a fighter in an epic struggle – for justice, for equality, for liberty – and that fight, by any measure, is not won. So, Mr. Mujica admits with a shrug, he may keep one hand in the game of regional diplomacy.
> 
> ...




More on link below......


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/guerrilla-turned-president-is-retiring-as-a-man-of-influence/article20709506/


----------



## DB008 (24 September 2014)

THE CANNABIS REPUBLIC OF URUGUAY - FULL LENGTH



> At the end of 2013, Uruguay became the first country in the world to fully legalize marijuana. VICE correspondent Krishna Andavolu heads over to Uruguay to check out how the country is adjusting to a legally regulated marijuana market.
> 
> Along the way, he meets up with Uruguay's president, JosÃ© Mujica, to burn one down and talk about the president's goal of a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, and six cannabis plants per household.





http://www.vice.com/weediquette-show/the-cannabis-republic-of-uruguay-full-length


----------



## DB008 (29 September 2014)

*Medical cannabis closer to federal approval*




> The federal government would be given oversight over the production and distribution of medical cannabis under new legislation to make the make the drug available to patients with chronic pain.
> 
> The push to legalise medical cannabis is gathering pace, with Greens Senator Richard Di Natale, chairman of the cross-party Parliamentary Group for Drug Policy and Law Reform, now finalising a bill that is set to be introduced into Parliament next month.
> 
> ...





http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/medical-cannabis-closer-to-federal-approval-20140928-10n5rd.html


----------



## DB008 (29 September 2014)

*USA*


*The Federal Government Is Looking to Hire Pot Farmers*

*It has begun its search for the best and brightest in the world at growing pot.*



> The federal government is looking for pot farmers. Although it may seem like some sort of cruel hoax, it’s not. It’s been confirmed that the federal government has begun its search for the best and brightest in the world at growing pot.
> 
> A job listing was placed on a federal government business opportunities website earlier this week, soliciting proposals from qualified persons that are interested in possibly assisting them with cannabis research. The  National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), a research institute dedicated to studying the science of addiction, is seeking skilled, large-scale farmers to cultivate, harvest, process, analyze, store and distribute marijuana.
> 
> In order to qualify, interested applicants must currently be registered to handle Schedule II through V substances with the  Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and be able to obtain permission to manufacture, research or distribute  Schedule I substances. Applicants can choose whether they prefer to  grow marijuana indoors or outdoors but must be able to prove that they possess a certain amount of space before any contracts can be awarded. Outdoor cultivators must possess 12 acres of secure land monitored by video. Indoor cultivators will need to possess facilities that have at least 1,000 square feet of space available with controls for light intensity, temperature, humidity and carbon dioxide concentrations.


----------



## DB008 (29 September 2014)

*A 3D Printed, Wifi Enabled Medical Marijuana Inhaler*



> The world of 3D printing shows no signs of stopping. From 3D printed guns and medical implants to food and shoes, it seems that just about anything can be 3D printed.
> 
> An Israeli company, Syqe Medical, thinks it has a way to make medical marijuana more accepted with the help of 3D printing. The company has printed a pocket-sized metered dose cannabis inhaler they hope will help move the bar forward in medical inhalers and help physicians overcome the unpredictability of prescribing cannabis.
> 
> ...








http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferhicks/2014/09/28/a-3d-printed-wifi-enabled-medical-marijuana-inhaler/


----------



## DB008 (30 September 2014)

*Looking for the Facebook of the pot industry*



> It is an all-too-familiar scene: a beautiful autumn day dawns outdoors and a group of pale coders are hard at work inside a downtown bar in Denver, Colorado, which has been transformed into the home base of a hackathon.
> 
> The only difference? The people smoking a "bong" in the corner.
> 
> ...




http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29415605


----------



## DB008 (2 October 2014)

Starting October 20th, people possessing small amounts of marijuana in Philadelphia will no longer be subject to arrest.


*Mayor Nutter Signs Marijuana Decriminalization Bill*



> Starting October 20th, possession of small amounts of marijuana will be a civil offense in the city of Philadelphia.
> 
> Mayor Michael Nutter signed Jim Kenney’s marijuana decriminalization bill in a ceremony at City Hall today. It goes into effect later this month.
> 
> This isn't legalization, but most possession offenses have been turned into fines. Those possessing 30 grams or less of marijuana will be cited and fined $25. Those smoking in public will be cited and fined $100, or made to perform nine hours of community service. Cops will also confiscate any weed they find. Thirty grams is just a little over an ounce; most pot smokers make purchases of only an eighth of an ounce or less at once.





http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/10/01/marijuana-possession-civil-offense-in-philadelphia-decriminalized/

Also, Florida has a vote on legalisation on November 4.


----------



## DB008 (6 October 2014)

*Huge majority thinks 'war on drugs' has failed, new poll finds*



> An increasing proportion of Britons favours a more liberal approach to drugs and would support decriminalisation strategies, according to a comprehensive survey commissioned by the Observer.
> 
> An overwhelming majority also believes that the so-called "war on drugs" is futile, with 84% saying that the decades-long campaign by law enforcement agencies against the global narcotics trade can never be won.
> 
> ...





http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/05/war-on-drugs-failed-decriminalise-illegal-use


----------



## DB008 (6 October 2014)

Our politicians should hang their heads in shame!!!

*Pressure builds to legalise medical marijuana after boy denied treatment*



> Federal, state and territory governments have lost the “consent of the governed” on the issue of medical marijuana, the president of the Australian Drug Law Reform Foundation says.
> 
> Dr Alex Wodak’s comments follow a clash between the parents of a three-year-old boy and a Melbourne hospital after doctors stopped administering cannabis oil to the child because of concerns about legal ramifications.
> 
> ...





http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/06/pressure-builds-to-legalise-medical-marijuana-after-boy-denied-treatment


----------



## DB008 (7 October 2014)

Keep this banned, it is no good.... 



> *Colon carcinogenesis is inhibited by the TRPM8 antagonist cannabigerol, a Cannabis-derived non-psychotropic cannabinoid.*
> 
> _Abstract_
> 
> ...


----------



## DB008 (7 October 2014)

Big Pharma won't be happy with this at all...

Please watch the 40 second video.

*Medical marijuana: Mother reveals how ‘illegal’ drug is keeping her daughter alive*



> WHEN Alice Cowles was born eight years ago, doctors declared her a perfectly healthy baby.
> 
> But just weeks later she was suffering several life-threatening fits a day and just recently her daughter almost died.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/medical-marijuana-mother-reveals-how-illegal-drug-is-keeping-her-daughter-alive/story-fneuzlbd-1227082533539


----------



## DB008 (18 October 2014)

*Marijuana news: Pot sales continue to climb in Colorado*




> Colorado continues to see growth in state-regulated sales of recreational marijuana, with the latest figures showing sales totaling $34.1 million in August, The Washington Post reports.
> 
> The newspaper's Wonkblog crunched numbers from the Colorado Department of Revenue, finding that sales of recreational pot have begun to outpace medical cannabis.
> 
> And increased sales means more revenue for the state. Staff writer Christopher Ingraham, who has dug into Colorado's marijuana data before, reports that the state took in $7.5 million in revenue from the sales of medical and recreational cannabis in August -- and about $45 million so far this year.





http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2014/10/marijuana_news_revenue_from_po.html


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## orr (19 October 2014)

ABC's Radio Nationals 'BackGround Briefing'  Expose' of the  Medico' Politico' and societal crawl toward sanity as all the entrenched power bases attempt to protect their patch, to the extreme prejudice of the suffering in our community.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-10-19/5816112


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## darkhorse70 (19 October 2014)

Ive been around marijuana since I was 14/15. Every one of my friends smokes pot, most also partake in other drugs like cocain,ectasy, acid, mushrooms.

Some smoke pot 5 times a day. Now we are 22. One of my friends who smokes daily got taken away 1 week ago to a mental hospital for the 2nd time. Id say if he never did drugs he would not be there but he also abused it.

I have only done pot 20 times through out my life and although I have nuthing against it and actually think its got heaps of benefits I do believe it comes down to the individual. If I did drugs no doubt id be a looney right now.

They should be legal. You can get whatever you want in this country. For example my uncle was addicted to oppium since he was young. He was clean for a long time but had been suffering from cancer for the last 10 years. When he came to visit us, he went to kings cross and bought 500$ worth of opium. He cant  even speak english very well loll. Cancer killed him but my point is if your going to get drugs might as well be clean, and If you want drugs or your personality is fixed more towards that where your a risk taker in that sort of field then your going to get it legal or not. So legalise it.


----------



## darkhorse70 (19 October 2014)

On another note, I know most people would not condone this act but this was a long time ago haha. Pics more so for the supporters


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 October 2014)

darkhorse70 said:


> Ive been around marijuana since I was 14/15. Every one of my friends smokes pot, most also partake in other drugs like cocain,ectasy, acid, mushrooms.
> 
> Some smoke pot 5 times a day. Now we are 22. One of my friends who smokes daily got taken away 1 week ago to a mental hospital for the 2nd time. Id say if he never did drugs he would not be there but he also abused it.




I can only speak from my own observations here, but from what I've seen pot fries the brain if you keep doing it past your mid-20's. I know plenty who have messed about with it, and it hasn't worked out well for those who did it long term. OK, they're still alive and functioning, but it's had an affect I'd say. It seems to make it rather hard for them to learn anything new, due to effects on the brain I assume. 

I won't claim that to be based on any proper studies etc. It's just what I've observed people do over the years.

Medical use I have no real concerns about if it's prescribed by a doctor etc and properly regulated. But I'd rather we didn't end up with pot being sold like tobacco is at present. The last thing we need is to replace one form of smoking with another on a mass scale. That won't end well.


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## darkhorse70 (19 October 2014)

Hmm smurf, joe rogan became a big pot advocate. He still is sharp as a whistle for now. If youve seen the podcast with him and graham hancock its awesome. Graham hancock stopped smoking after years... but he is still smart as.


----------



## DB008 (19 October 2014)

> *The business of pot*
> 
> It’s estimated thousands of Australians are risking arrest by using cannabis for medical reasons. A national clinical trial has been announced but legalisation could be many years away, and then for expensive pharmaceutical drugs only. Di Martin investigates the science and the politics of medical cannabis.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-14/the-business-of-pot/5814010


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## DB008 (20 October 2014)

*How marijuana legalization in Colorado and Washington is making the world a better place*



> No pressure, Colorado and Washington, but the world is scrutinizing your every move.
> 
> That was the take-home message of an event today at the Brookings Institution, discussing the international impact of the move toward marijuana legalization at the state-level in the U.S. Laws passed in Colorado and Washington, with other states presumably to come, create a tension with the U.S. obligations toward three major international treaties governing drug control. Historically the U.S. has been a strong advocate of all three conventions, which "commit the United States to punish and even criminalize activity related to recreational marijuana," according to Brookings' Wells Bennet.
> 
> The U.S. response to this tension has thusfar been to call for more "flexibility" in how countries interpret them. This policy was made explicit in recent remarks by Assistant Secretary of State William Brownfield, who last week at the United Nations said that "we have to be tolerant of different countries, in response to their own national circumstances and conditions, exploring and using different national drug control policies." He went on: "How could I, a representative of the Government of the United States of America, be intolerant of a government that permits any experimentation with legalization of marijuana if two of the 50 states of the United States of America have chosen to walk down that road?"






http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/17/how-marijuana-legalization-in-colorado-and-washington-is-making-the-world-a-better-place/


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## DB008 (21 October 2014)

*Catherine Zahn: Legalization is the best approach to cannabis control*​


> In spite of legal prohibition, Canada has one of the highest rates of cannabis use in the world. In Ontario, more than one in 10 adults and nearly one in four high school students used cannabis in the past year. In doing so, they become exposed to the health risks of cannabis and the risks of becoming criminalized by the act of procuring or possessing the substance. In addition, they are in danger of being introduced to other, more dangerous illicit drugs.
> 
> It seems obvious that our current approach is not reducing access to cannabis or the harms associated with its use. Young Canadians and other vulnerable groups bear a disproportionate burden of these risks, with adolescents, individuals with mental illness, and those with a pattern of heavy use being most susceptible to the negative impact of cannabis.
> 
> ...



*
*
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/catherine-zahn-legalization-is-the-best-approach-to-cannabis-control


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## DB008 (1 November 2014)

*Eleven countries studied, one inescapable conclusion – the drug laws don’t work*

*Eight month study shows legalisation policies do not result in wider use, and the US should be watched with interest*




> The UK government’s comparison of international drug laws, published on Wednesday, represents the first official recognition since the 1971 Misuse of Drugs Act that there is no direct link between being “tough on drugs” and tackling the problem.
> 
> The report, which has been signed off by both the Conservative home secretary, Theresa May, and the Liberal Democrat crime prevention minister, Norman Baker, is based on an in-depth study of drug laws in 11 countries ranging from the zero-tolerance of Japan to the legalisation of Uruguay.
> 
> ...





http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/30/drug-laws-international-study-tough-policy-use-problem


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## DB008 (5 November 2014)

*Guam Legalizes Medical Marijuana*



> Voters in Guam approved a ballot initiative Tuesday that would legalize marijuana for "debilitating medical conditions" such as epilepsy, HIV, cancer and glaucoma. The bill, which passed by more than 56 percent, makes Guam the first U.S. territory to legalize medical pot.
> 
> The decision marks the first victory in a flurry of marijuana-related ballot measures this Election Day. Residents of Florida will also vote on medical marijuana legislation, and voters in Alaska, Oregon and Washington, D.C., will decide whether to legalize pot for recreational purposes. Two Maine cities are also voting on full-scale legalization, and two New Mexico counties are mulling decriminalization.
> 
> ...




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/04/guam-medical-marijuana_n_6100972.html?utm_hp_ref=politics


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## DB008 (5 November 2014)

Oregon just passed Marijuana bill.

https://twitter.com/OregonianPol/status/529852314782138368

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kptv/elex/index.html#111



> *Recreational Marijuana Just Became Legal in the Nation's Capital*
> 
> Marijuana enthusiasts of America, rejoice: Residents of the nation's capital are voting yes on smoking pot for fun.
> 
> ...


----------



## sydboy007 (15 November 2014)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-14/afghan-opium-crop-inflames-u-s-tensions-with-russia.html




> Afghan land under poppy cultivation hit a record 224,000 hectares (554,000 acres) last year, according to the UN. Opium production rose about 17 percent to 6,400 tons while the number of fields eradicated by security forces plummeted 63 percent to 2,692 hectares.
> 
> Underlining the U.S. counter narcotics failure, opium production rose faster in the areas where the U.S. and U.K. targeted $56 million of aid to help farmers switch from growing poppies to pomegranates than it did in areas that received no money, the UN said.


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## DB008 (19 November 2014)

*Cannabis extract can have dramatic effect on brain cancer, says new research*



> Experts have shown that when certain parts of cannabis are used to treat cancer tumours alongside radiotherapy treatment the growths can virtually disappear
> 
> The new research by specialists at St George’s, University of London, studied the treatment of brain cancer tumours in the laboratory and discovered that the most effective treatment was to combine active chemical components of the cannabis plant which are called cannabinoids.
> 
> ...





http://www.sgul.ac.uk/media/latest-news/cannabis-extract-can-have-dramatic-effect-on-brain-cancer-says-new-research


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## Tink (23 November 2014)

War on drugs 

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...raph/comments/we_are_losing_the_war_on_drugs/


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## Tink (24 November 2014)

Ice addiction: Children in Canberra as young as 13 abusing methamphetamine

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...n-canberra-as-young-as-13-abusing-ice/5895770

This is disgusting.

As I posted yesterday, there needs to be changes.

_AS they grieve the death of their beautiful, vivacious daughter Georgina last weekend, I hope the Bartter family isn’t harassed by the vultures of the drug legalisation lobby.

That’s what happened to the Wood family when their 15-year-old daughter Anna died in 1995 after taking an ecstasy pill. Tony and Angela Wood are still aghast that Dr Alex Wodak sent them a letter two weeks after Anna’s death, trying to recruit them for his campaign to legalise dangerous illegal drugs.

At the time, he was a pillar of the medical establishment at St Vincent’s Hospital as Director of the Alcohol and Drug Service as well as President of the radical Australian Drug Law Reform Foundation.

His two-page letter urged the Woods to “at least make something good come out of Anna’s death” by lobbying politicians to end “tough law enforcement policies”.

They ignored his disgusting, predatory opportunism and went on to make an enormous contribution by touring schools, telling Anna’s story to send the message that illegal drugs are never safe.

Their efforts, together with the courage of whistleblower police like Tim Priest and publicity about the psychosis-inducing potential of cannabis, pressured authorities to take the drug problem seriously.

John Howard’s successful Tough on Drugs regime was launched in 1997 and, for the first time in three decades drug use fell, fewer young people experimented and those who did were older.

Georgina Bartter was born the year Anna Wood died.

By the time she came of age the Tough on Drugs regime had been dismantled, lessons had been forgotten and the same old drug liberalisers were back in the ascendancy.

Bartter’s generation still had drug education, but the message had been cunningly transformed. They were taught that alcohol is just another drug. The only difference is that one is legal and the other is not ”” kind of.

The consequence of this seemingly innocuous shift in language was to erase the distinction between legal and illegal substances.

Young teens saw their parents using alcohol and thought, well, that’s a drug so I might try a more modern drug. Using that calculus, ecstasy makes sense.

Now we have a whole new younger cohort of generation Y who have been taught the harm minimisation doctrine that alcohol is worse, or at least as bad, as illicit drugs and, hey, if you must “use”, here’s how to do it safely. The message was heard loud and clear.

Despite an official panic about a teenage drinking “crisis” the fact is that Generation Y drink far less than their elders. Between 2002 and 2007 the Australian Secondary School Students’ (drugs and alcohol) Use survey found the proportion of 12-15 year olds who had drunk any alcohol in the week before the survey had dropped from 32 to 14 per cent. The proportion of 16 to 17-year-old drinkers went from 50 per cent to about 36 per cent. Alcohol was successfully demonised and drug use among young people started to rise again from 2008.

At the same time a renewed official permissiveness about illicit drugs emerged.

Now you can risk losing your licence for parking infringements, yet one in three drugged drivers get off scot free. This year one in 26 motorists stopped for new police random drug tests tested positive, yet magistrates dismissed charges, or applied no penalty to almost one in three drivers convicted of driving while high.

Drugs are ubiquitous and the ambivalence of authorities has rendered them powerless to protect young people like Georgina. The former Wenona student from Longueville started convulsing and died soon after taking one and a half pills of what her friends said was ecstasy at the Harbourlife music festival at Mrs Macquarie’s Chair on Saturday.

She was a good girl who did well at school and was studying accounting at UTS.

The tragedy could have happened to any family, Paramedics said they treat as many as 1400 young people in a day for the effects of drugs at these sorts of music festivals.

We have ended up in a situation when it is cheaper and easier for a 19-year-old to party on a $25 ecstasy tablet than on alcohol ”” minus the calories. What a sickening waste of a young life.

“Angela and I were devastated when we heard the news about Georgina,” Tony Wood said yesterday.

“The only way we are going to fix this is with zero tolerance … drug education without law enforcement is an absolute waste of money.”

But you can bet the Bartter’s tragedy will be twisted into a propaganda tool for drug liberalisers.

They claim we have lost the so-called war on drugs, but no one ever claimed it was a war that could be won.

What we have done before and can do again is make drugs harder to procure.

That starts with zero tolerance, not a nudge nudge wink wink._


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## DB008 (25 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Ice addiction: Children in Canberra as young as 13 abusing methamphetamine
> 
> This is disgusting.
> 
> ...




I agree wholeheartedly.

What do you think about this Tink? This is also real world.




> *Misunderstood Medicine: 'I feel like a normal boy'*
> 
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. - A week after his eighth birthday, Forrest Smelser was diagnosed with epilepsy.
> ...


----------



## Value Collector (27 November 2014)

The libertarian side of my brain and the conservative side are at odds when it comes to this question.

I don't want to infringe on the rights of others to use drugs, But I don't want to support it either. I also don't want hard drugs readily available on the streets.

Perhaps this sums up my position.


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## SirRumpole (27 November 2014)

Value Collector said:


> The libertarian side of my brain and the conservative side are at odds when it comes to this question.
> 
> I don't want to infringe on the rights of others to use drugs, But I don't want to support it either. I also don't want hard drugs readily available on the streets.
> 
> Perhaps this sums up my position.





Yeah, but when people start committing crimes to feed their habit, the it starts to become a problem for the rest of us.

Self grown marijuana ? In non commercial quantities I have no problem with. Too much taxpayers money wasted tracking down and prosecuting an essentially harmless activity.

Ice and ecstasy , no way. Too addictive and deadly.


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## Tisme (27 November 2014)

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has endured the agony of seeing one of their kids slide into drug addiction and become mentally ill in the process? My boy's choice was hooch and you can imagine how uncomfortable I am listening to people brand it as innocuous and beneficial.

I have to give it to whoever the people are that have inculcated large swathes of the population into believing we somehow took an evolutionary step up when the minute hand swept past midnight 2000 and everything our ancestoral wise made taboo from experience became open for debate again.

I will never support legalising drugs. I hate that the courts just kept slapping convictions and fines, with a requirement to watch a video for punishment; they should have refrained from destroying any hope of a decent job and be allowed to impose a worthwhile rehab programme as early intervention, without a stain forevermore. The fallout on the rest of the family was and still is devastating


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## Value Collector (27 November 2014)

Tisme said:


> I'm sure I'm not the only one that has endured the agony of seeing one of their kids slide into drug addiction and become mentally ill in the process?




I am sorry you had to go through that.  



> My boy's choice was hooch and you can imagine how uncomfortable I am listening to people brand it as innocuous and beneficial.




I can imagine you must be uncomfortable, But I also imagine it would be the same for people who's loved one lives have been altered through alcoholism or smoking, I find it hard to draw a line in the sand on where peoples rights to do things ends and the right of government mandated safety starts. 



> I have to give it to whoever the people are that have inculcated large swathes of the population into believing we somehow took an evolutionary step up when the minute hand swept past midnight 2000 and everything our ancestoral wise made taboo from experience became open for debate again.




Different societies have different taboos, you might find in some Muslim cultures wine is taboo, but hooch is ok, all cultural taboos should be up for debate.

Many cultural taboos have been broken for good reasons, eg married women in the workforce was a taboo, as was interracial marriage, and anything to do with the LBGT community, or even just eating meat on Fridays.



> I will never support legalising drugs.




where exactly do you draw the line though, I mean do you support prohibition of alcohol?


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## DB008 (27 November 2014)

*Richard Di Natale announces bill on medicinal cannabis*

ALP/Libs should hang their heads in shame on this issue. The Greens are way infront on this. I had a relative pass away from cancer last year. Medical Marijuana could certainly have help him during chemo.


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## Tink (28 November 2014)

Tisme said:


> I'm sure I'm not the only one that has endured the agony of seeing one of their kids slide into drug addiction and become mentally ill in the process? My boy's choice was hooch and you can imagine how uncomfortable I am listening to people brand it as innocuous and beneficial.
> 
> I have to give it to whoever the people are that have inculcated large swathes of the population into believing we somehow took an evolutionary step up when the minute hand swept past midnight 2000 and everything our ancestoral wise made taboo from experience became open for debate again.
> 
> I will never support legalising drugs. I hate that the courts just kept slapping convictions and fines, with a requirement to watch a video for punishment; they should have refrained from destroying any hope of a decent job and be allowed to impose a worthwhile rehab programme as early intervention, without a stain forevermore. The fallout on the rest of the family was and still is devastating




Sorry to hear about your son, Tisme. 
I agree with your post completely, even though I haven't had anything like that close to home.

DB, I would never agree with legalising drugs, I have said that before.
That article I posted regarding ice, just shows how easily things get transported to the children.

There is a problem in society.
We grew up with zero tolerance.

Once upon a time, drunks were frowned upon, how is it now?
What happened to looking out for your friends?
I don't like the way the language has changed to 'just another drug' for the drug pushers.
The bad outweighs the good.


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## Tisme (28 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Sorry to hear about your son, Tisme.
> I agree with your post completely, even though I haven't had anything like that close to home.
> 
> DB, I would never agree with legalising drugs, I have said that before.
> ...




Thankyou Tink.


Value Collector thankyou for your empathy too. Insofar as the other social norms, I must admit I am less hardline of alcoholism, but nonetheless won't advocate it's use; it too can bring out the worst behaviours in people, but weed is far more insidious and from what I know now a journey that permanently destroys parts of the mind and personality without overtly damaging the shell.

Besides I'm averse to using one evil to justify another evil.


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## SirRumpole (28 November 2014)

My condolences also Tisme. How is your son now ?

I really don't know what to do about the wider drug problem. Forty years or more of a "war on drugs" does not appear to have had much success. The more you make a black market out of drug pushing, the more lucrative it is and the more people are willing to take the risk of selling the stuff.

I don't think we can treat users as criminals. They are in fact victims of crime who need our support. If giving them drugs legally stops them buying it from the scum and therefore drives the drug pushers out of business then overall it may be the best solution in the long run.


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## DB008 (29 November 2014)

*The Hottest Pot Shop in San Francisco | CNBC*


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## DB008 (29 November 2014)

*Big illicit drug seizures don't lead to less crime or drug use, study finds*



> Large-scale seizures of heroin, cocaine and amphetamines by police do not reduce the number of overdoses or arrests for possession and use of the drugs, according to the largest Australian study ever conducted into the area.
> 
> The study by the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research (BOCSAR) also found that the frequency and quantity of heroin, cocaine and amphetamines being seized by authorities had no effect on theft, robbery and assault figures.
> 
> ...




http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/big-illicit-drug-seizures-dont-lead-to-less-crime-or-drug-use-study-finds-20141126-11uagl.html


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## DB008 (1 December 2014)

How they do it in Amsterdam.

Saving lives!


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## Tink (4 December 2014)

More people are killed on the state’s roads while driving under the influence of illicit drugs such as ice than from alcohol, police statistics show. 

_Between November 14 and December 3, Operation RAID had detected 245 drug-affected drivers and led to 193 vehicles being impounded._

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...143713906?sv=b55350932338d2560be0668a1d75ea27


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## Value Collector (4 December 2014)

Tink said:


> More people are killed on the state’s roads while driving under the influence of illicit drugs such as ice than from alcohol, police statistics show.
> 
> _Between November 14 and December 3, Operation RAID had detected 245 drug-affected drivers and led to 193 vehicles being impounded._
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...143713906?sv=b55350932338d2560be0668a1d75ea27




Interesting stats, but I fear they are not quite telling the full story.

Anyone that tests positive to drugs is immediately charged, however with alcohol, your only charged if you are over 0.05% blood alcohol. So in the same time period that the caught 245 drug users, many, many more alcohol users would have been found, but the majority would have been released with out any records taken because they were under the limit.

Also the drug tests can detect users ever after the intoxication has subsided.


----------



## Tisme (4 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> Interesting stats, but I fear they are not quite telling the full story.
> 
> Anyone that tests positive to drugs is immediately charged, however with alcohol, your only charged if you are over 0.05% blood alcohol. So in the same time period that the caught 245 drug users, many, many more alcohol users would have been found, but the majority would have been released with out any records taken because they were under the limit.
> 
> Also the drug tests can detect users ever after the intoxication has subsided.




Alcohol doesn't tend to give a second (and more) high after the initial come down like weed (and others) does.


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## Value Collector (4 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> Alcohol doesn't tend to give a second (and more) high after the initial come down like weed (and others) does.




Whats this second high you get from weed?

Large doses of alcohol does tend to give you a hangover, which in bad cases can incapacitate people for a day or more.


----------



## DB008 (14 December 2014)

*Victory: Congress ends war on medical marijuana*



> In a landmark moment for cannabis law reform, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a measure late Thursday night to de-fund the federal war on medical marijuana. The provision passed the Senate Saturday and is expected to be signed by President Obama, bringing a halt to the three-year-long medi-pot crackdown in California and other states.
> 
> The Hinchey-Rohrabacher Amendment to the $1.1 trillion cromnibus spending bill blocks the use of Department of Justice funds to “prevent [medical marijuana states] from implementing their own State laws that authorize the use, distribution, possession, or cultivation of medical marijuana.”
> 
> ...




http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2014/12/12/congress-ends-war-on-medical-marijuana/

I think that Australia is between 5-10 years behind the US on medical marijuana.


----------



## Value Collector (15 December 2014)

An interesting point.


----------



## DB008 (19 January 2015)

> *Colorado Sells $34 Million Of Cannabis: $3.4 Million Goes To Schools, Crime Down 15%*
> 
> In 2012, Colorado and Washington state legalized the recreational use of marijuana, much to the dismay of anti-pot advocates. They frequently alleged that it would make it easier for children to acquire, that more people would use it, that there would be more people driving while high, and that it would be an all around bad deal for these states.
> 
> ...





http://higherperspective.com/2014/12/colorado.html?utm_source=CNT


----------



## DB008 (19 January 2015)

*Bangalore oncologists want cannabis legalised to help fight cancer*



> Top oncologists of Bengaluru have decided to lobby with the Centre to lift the ban on cannabis for medicinal purposes due to the health benefits of the drug.
> 
> "We are encouraging cultivation of tobacco that causes various types of cancer. At the other end, we are ignoring the medicinal properties of a plant that can help cancer patients. We are not even able to take up research as procurement of the plant is illegal in India, whereas oncologists in 21 states of the US are prescribing derivatives of cannabis for cancer treatment," Dr Vishal Rao, surgical oncologist, told The Times Of India.
> 
> ...




http://www.firstpost.com/living/bangalore-oncologists-want-cannabis-legalised-to-help-fight-cancer-2026985.html


----------



## DB008 (22 January 2015)

*Ketamine makes unlikely addition to the battle against the blues*



> Ketamine was first used as an anaesthetic and became a party drug but it could be a breakthrough treatment for people with severe depression.





http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4166265.htm?WT.mc_id=Innovation_News-7.30|KetamineMakesUnlikelyAdditionToTheBattleAgainstTheBlues_FBP|abc


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## Julia (22 January 2015)

Of course it will - in the short term - act as an antidepressant.  It is an opiate-like drug, producing euphoria and dissociative state, sometimes hallucinations, originally and currently used as part of anaesthesia.



> Ketamine hydrochloride is a rapid acting dissociative which effects profound analgesia. Although it can be used alone in many species, ketamine is an essential component of many successful drug combinations used in wildlife. First synthesized in 1962, ketamine hydrochloride was initially developed as a safer anesthetic alternative to phencyclidine in human medicine. Ketamine was used in psychiatric and other academic research in the 1970’s that documented its hallucinogenic and psychedelic effects. Today, its illicit recreational use, which is internationally recognized, prompted the DEA to schedule ketamine as a CIII under the Controlled Substance Act in 1999.




It is commonly used in veterinary medicine.

God help us if we are thinking of putting people with sadness on to such a potent drug.  Might as well just whack a bit of morphine into people imo.


----------



## DB008 (23 January 2015)

Julia said:


> Of course it will - *in the short term* - act as an antidepressant.  It is an opiate-like drug, producing euphoria and dissociative state, sometimes hallucinations, originally and currently used as part of anaesthesia.
> 
> It is commonly used in veterinary medicine.
> 
> God help us if we are thinking of putting people with sadness on to such a potent drug.  Might as well just whack a bit of morphine into people imo.





So people who have severe depression keep going about their ways without a way out?




> *Antidepressant efficacy of ketamine in treatment-resistant major depression: a two-site randomized controlled trial.*
> 
> Murrough JW, Iosifescu DV, Chang LC, Al Jurdi RK, Green CE, Perez AM, Iqbal S, Pillemer S, Foulkes A, Shah A, Charney DS, Mathew SJ.
> Abstract
> ...




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23982301




> *Ketamine research reports 75pc success rate in treatment of long-term depression*
> 
> Researchers looking into the use of horse tranquiliser and 'party drug' ketamine say they have had a 75 per cent success rate in using it to treat long-term depression.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-21/ketamine-hailed-as-new-treatment-for-long-term-depression/6032306

God help us....


----------



## Julia (23 January 2015)

DB008 said:


> So people who have severe depression keep going about their ways without a way out?



Did I suggest that?  Of course not.  I just pointed out that a drug like ketamine will, like morphine or heroin, induce feelings of euphoria so ipso facto you could on that basis classify it as having antidepressant properties.

Many people will experience relief from depression if they have some alcohol, but overall it's a depressant and obviously cannot be considered a suitable drug as long term treatment for depression.

I've never had cocaine or other party drugs but I understand they also provide a sense of well being.  Are we therefore going to regard them as anti-depressants?

I'm simply making the same point regarding ketamine.


----------



## Knobby22 (23 January 2015)

Julia

Just wondering, alcohol is classified as a depressant but it is true that some people get all happy with it.
Personally it just relaxes me a little. 

Do you know why it is so variable in effect and why it seems to lift some people? I know this is a little bit medical but I thought you might know.


----------



## Ves (23 January 2015)

You're confusing depressant with depression.

A depressant slows the activity or signals going to the brain from the central nervous system (CMS) and other areas of activity that affect the brain,  which means that it will depress or reduce arousal or stimulation.   Hence why you probably feel more relaxed.

However,  it also increases the level of "feel good" chemicals in your brain,  which, like other drugs, often convince you that you are feeling great (often despite other external circumstances).   With greater levels of intake,  over sustained periods,  this effect can and usually does diminish,   and all that you are left with is the addiction.

DYOR,  but that's my understanding of the science.


----------



## Julia (23 January 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> Julia
> 
> Just wondering, alcohol is classified as a depressant but it is true that some people get all happy with it.
> Personally it just relaxes me a little.
> ...



No idea, Knobby, sorry.



Ves said:


> You're confusing depressant with depression.



I'm not confusing anything. 
 I said 


> Many people will experience relief from depression if they have some alcohol, but overall it's a depressant and obviously cannot be considered a suitable drug as long term treatment for depression.




That is not in any way saying that because alcohol is a CNS depressant it therefore causes depression so you're making a quite silly suggestion.

My point is that, even though it often makes some people feel happier temporarily, (as undoubtedly a whack of ketamine in your vein would), that doesn't necessarily make it suitable as ongoing antidepressant medication, any more than morphine or heroin would simply because they induce a similar sense of euphoria.

Apart from potential addiction problems there would be a substantial overdose risk with ketamine.  It is commonly and efficiently used to euthanase animals.


----------



## Ves (23 January 2015)

Julia said:


> I'm not confusing anything.



My whole post was a reply to Knobby's post.  I was referring in particular to:



> Just wondering, alcohol is classified as a depressant but it is true that some people get all happy with it.




What silly suggestions??  Are you talking to me, Julia?


----------



## Julia (23 January 2015)

Ves, I don't see any basis for assuming either Knobby or I were confusing the action of alcohol.
I'm sure everyone is familiar with the fact that it is a CNS depressant and that that has no particular relevance to depression in a clinical sense.

Less than relevant to the discussion anyway which is about the role of ketamine.


----------



## Ves (23 January 2015)

So what exactly is his question then?

Knobby, would you mind clarifying?

Edit:   Knobby,  if what you are asking is along the lines of my original answer,   then the "happy feeling" stuff comes from the increased levels of dopamine in the brain that drinking alcohol can produce.


----------



## Julia (23 January 2015)

This was Knobby's question re alcohol:


> Do you know why it is so variable in effect and why it seems to lift some people?


----------



## Knobby22 (23 January 2015)

Yea, I wasn't confused about the meaning of depressant. As Julia said I was more interested in why its effect is so variable. No big deal.


----------



## DB008 (27 January 2015)

Scotland and London

*‘Medical marijuana’ trial for epilepsy*



> A drug extracted from cannabis plants is to be used to treat children with severe epilepsy at hospitals in Edinburgh, London and Liverpool.
> 
> Doctors are cautiously optimistic about “medical marijuana” following American trials of the drug Epidiolex. Studies showed a marked improvement in about 70 per cent of young patients who suffered multiple seizures, and for about 10 per cent their seizures stopped altogether. However, for another tenth the drug appeared to worsen their condition.




http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4299653.ece


----------



## DB008 (2 February 2015)

*Israeli medical marijuana creates buzz but no high”” will it go global?*



> Israel first approved medical cannabis for a patient in 1992, for severe asthma. In 2007, the Health Ministry implemented a comprehensive medical cannabis program, and now 20,000 patients are permitted to use cannabis ”” a number expected to rise to 30,000 by 2016.
> 
> Israeli doctors use it to treat ailments including Crohn’s disease, basal cell carcinoma, psoriasis, Parkinson’s, multiple sclerosis and PTSD in Israeli military veterans, and the pain of cancer patients and the elderly. Its doses are available in cookies, caramels, chocolates, oils, and leaf form for smoking or vaporizing.







> *MedReleaf now produces strains including the non-intoxicating varieties, with high concentrations of cannabidiol, or CBD ”” a powerful anti-inflammatory with no narcotic effect ”” and low tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, which creates the “high” typically associated with marijuana.*





http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israeli-medical-marijuana-creates-buzz-but-no-high-will-it-go-global/2015/01/31/558fe072-a19a-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html


----------



## DB008 (3 February 2015)

*Medicinal cannabis: study finds Australians suffering chronic pain get more relief from cannabis than conventional medicines
*




> Australians suffering from chronic pain may get more relief from their symptoms using cannabis than they do from some conventional medications, researchers have found.
> 
> A large study of people suffering from chronic problems such as back pain, migraine and arthritis has discovered many are turning to cannabis to relieve their symptoms, despite already being prescribed heavy-duty opioid medications such as morphine and oxycodone.
> 
> ...




http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nsw/medicinal-cannabis-study-finds-australians-suffering-chronic-pain-get-more-relief-from-cannabis-than-conventional-medicines-20150126-12y52e.html


----------



## Julia (3 February 2015)

The following is transcript from yesterday's "Health Report" on Radio National
------------

Norman Swan: Hello and welcome to the Health Report with me, Norman Swan.
And before you get too excited about the medicinal uses of cannabis, we bust some myths and call a spade a spade, including the issue of cannabis addiction.

Professor Jan Copeland has just co-authored a book on quitting cannabis. Jan is director and founder of the National Cannabis Prevention and Information Centre at the University of New South Wales.

Jan Copeland: The myths are rife, and unfortunately as my time has gone on in this field (it's now over 25 years) the mythology around cannabis has grown rather than diminished. *I think the strongest myth is that it's not addictive. Certainly that is well addressed in the book. But there's a number of health effects that are promulgated that are really poorly evidenced based, things such as 'it's good for asthma', 'it cures cancer' is now something I regularly hear in the media, which is very distressing and disturbing because of its implications for people abandoning conventional healthcare and taking up cannabis smoking as an alternative*. Driving is a big myth that has persisted for many years. We have a much better idea of what the relationship is and we know that, yes, you do drive more slowly but…

Norman Swan: You don't necessarily drive more safely.

Jan Copeland: Absolutely not, no. And unfortunately that has translated into accidents and deaths.

Norman Swan: And we've covered this before on the Health Report, that even though there is a bit of a bandwagon now about the medical uses of marijuana, the evidence-base for that is pretty thin too.

Jan Copeland: It is, and we don't review that in this book but it's available on our website if people are interested. We have done a review of that literature, and most of it is actually based on synthetic THC. *The literature on whole smoked plant material is almost non-existent and there is no human clinical trials of the plant.*

Norman Swan: And THC is tetrahydrocannabinol, which is one of the active ingredients of cannabis.

Jan Copeland: Yes, that's the part of cannabis that gets one stoned, but there is another very important cannabinoid, cannabidiol, CBD, and we are doing some research with that at the moment. It doesn't get you stoned and it has the opposite effects to THC, so it reduces anxiety, reduces symptoms of psychosis, and we are looking to see if it helps cannabis withdrawal.

Norman Swan: What are the known health and psychological effects of cannabis at what sort of dose and what sort of frequency and what sort of age of onset of use?

Jan Copeland: There's a number of things that affect whether or not people go on to develop dependence, the level of exposure to the drug is pretty obviously one of the most important ones, the more frequently people use…

Norman Swan: But age of exposure is important too.

Jan Copeland: Absolutely, and that was my next point, that the other very important point is when your brain is first exposed to the drug. And there's something about the developing brain in adolescents that exposure, particularly before the age of 17, is much more likely to lead to a whole range of problems, including dependence. That's the addiction potential of cannabis. Of anyone who has ever smoked it's about one in 10, for alcohol it's about one in eight for example, nicotine about one in three. But when people start smoking early, that more than doubles that risk of developing an addiction. People who are smoking daily, they've got about a 50% risk of meeting criteria for dependence. So daily smoking is a very big red flag, and that's something that we see in our treatment populations, they've almost always been at least six-plus times a week smokers, and they've been doing that for a long time by the time they get into treatment.

Norman Swan: And what about the dose at each sitting, or lying as the case may be?

Jan Copeland: Couching! There's just not the studies to know that because we don't know what the potency is of the cannabis, but we do know that the potency of cannabis has dramatically increased over the last few years, and particularly in the US where the very, very high potency products are now available through the medicinal cannabis legislation.

Norman Swan: And what about psychosis and other psychological effects?

Jan Copeland: What we know about cannabis is it about doubles the rate of developing schizophrenia. The timing is right, they smoke cannabis typically before they develop schizophrenia…it's dose-related…

Norman Swan: And the prevalence of schizophrenia in high cannabis use populations such as Brixton in London is much higher, it's more than 1%.

Jan Copeland: Yes, as you rightly point out, in South London and other places where cannabis use has gone up, the rates of schizophrenia have also gone up.

Norman Swan: And what about the heart and lung?

Jan Copeland: Yes, we are learning much more about that, and it's more concerning as the population ages. The 50-pluses are the fastest growing group of cannabis smokers in the population…

Norman Swan: Ageing hippies, or ageing normal people because it's almost normal to be smoking cannabis.

Jan Copeland: Well, that's another myth; 90% of the population didn't smoke cannabis in the previous year, but yes, certainly people have that impression, but of course it's within certain groups. But yes, when you talk about heart and lung and stroke we are seeing cases of young cannabis users experiencing strokes and heart disease…

Norman Swan: Independent of the tobacco that they mix the cannabis with?

Jan Copeland: Yes. There is now a series in the pathology reports of cannabis associated deaths. And when they've put a halter monitor on a young man as he inhaled…

Norman Swan: It measures your heart rate, your heart rhythm I should say.

Jan Copeland: Yes, to monitor his heart over 24 hours, as he inhaled cannabis his heart stopped for over six seconds. So that was an indicator of what might be the cause of death in some of these people. But the risk of having a heart attack in the first hour of smoking is seven-fold that of periods where you are not smoking.

Norman Swan: Years ago they used to talk gently about cannabis dependence, and you are unreservedly using the word 'addiction'. First of all, what is the difference between dependence and addiction?

Jan Copeland: There is no difference. The American Psychological Association changed it to 'dependence' because of this notion that addiction was moralising or judgemental a term, but now the DSM-5, which is the bible for the mental health field, has gone back to using the term 'addiction'. And I think it resonates much more clearly with the general public, they understand that term, and it has led to misunderstandings where the cannabis lobby group has said, 'Oh well, it might cause dependence but that's not addiction,' and that's false.

------------------

More at http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...th-risks-of-using-cannabis/6057934#transcript

(Bolding is mine.)


----------



## DB008 (5 February 2015)

Fastest growing industry in the USA at the moment.




> *U.S. Surgeon General warms to medical marijuana*
> 
> In an interview, the country’s top doctor said preliminary research shows “marijuana can be helpful.”
> 
> ...





http://fortune.com/2015/02/04/surgeon-general-medical-marijuana/


----------



## Tink (15 February 2015)

Heroin turns suburb into ‘zombie town’

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...s-not-the-answer/story-fni0fit3-1227219987366

Makes you think of what is happening in Indonesia

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29490

I still say, zero tolerance.


----------



## prawn_86 (15 February 2015)

Tink said:


> I still say, zero tolerance.




So how do you propose it is dealt with? The current system obviously doesnt work. Would you just keep throwing more and more money at the current system and hope that one day something would change?

As the 'war on drugs' budget has increased year on year, prison rates have gone up, yet prices and purity have improved and usage rates have remained at a stable percentage.


----------



## DB008 (15 February 2015)

prawn_86 said:


> So how do you propose it is dealt with? The current system obviously doesnt work. Would you just keep throwing more and more money at the current system and hope that one day something would change?
> 
> As the 'war on drugs' budget has increased year on year, prison rates have gone up, yet prices and purity have improved and usage rates have remained at a stable percentage.




Exactly!

I think we will have to have a moment of the 'changing of the guards' (ie, people over the age of 50'ish bugger off), before laws get changed. They are stuck in their old ways and don't like change - even if it is for the better.



> *Colorado’s legal weed market: $700 million in sales last year, $1 billion by 2016*
> 
> Legal marijuana was a $700 million dollar industry in Colorado last year, according to a Washington Post analysis of recently-released tax data from the state's Department of Revenue. In 2014, Colorado retailers sold $386 million of medical marijuana and $313 million for purely recreational purposes. The two segments of the market generated $63 million in tax revenue, with an additional $13 million collected in licenses and fees.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/12/colorados-legal-weed-market-700-million-in-sales-last-year-1-billion-by-2016/?tid=sm_fb


----------



## DB008 (21 February 2015)

I guess that they can now see the dollar signs and common sense over in the USA....


*Two Bills To Federally Legalize Marijuana Were Just Introduced In Congress*​


> On Friday, February 20, U.S. Representatives Jared Polis (D-CO) and Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) introduced two separate bills in Congress to legalize adult-use marijuana at the federal level.
> 
> Polis’ bill, the Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act, would let states choose to legalize cannabis without any fear of federal intervention. The bill would put a federal regulatory structure into place to accommodate the new law. Blumenaur’s bill, the Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act, would tax cannabis sales at the federal level, in addition to any state and local taxes.
> 
> Four states have already legalized marijuana use for adults over 21 (Colorado, Washington, Alaska and Oregon), and 23 states (and Washington DC) allow medical marijuana use. Eleven more states have restrictive medical marijuana laws in place allowing the use of low-THC forms of marijuana (usually high in CBD)to treat certain medical conditions.




http://reset.me/story/two-bills-legalize-marijuana-federally-just-introduced-congress/


----------



## Tink (22 February 2015)

DB, the USA health system is different to ours, are you advocating for that change too?

I have already given my views on drugs, Prawn
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...=21580&page=18&p=849866&viewfull=1#post849866

The last I saw, both possession and use of drugs are illegal in Victoria. 
Violate the law and you deserve the appropriate punishment.

If the Government provides a facility in which addicts can inject heroin, we would be telling people that society’s rules and laws no longer matter. Spending public funds on establishing and maintaining a facility that will encourage drug taking, which is criminal, for drug users, dealers etc, and then watching the crime in the neighbourhood skyrocket --- who would want that?

I think we have gone soft on drugs and crime in general, imo. 
The law abiding citizens are no longer being heard -

Another view.
_The difference between now and then is that there was co-operation from Magistrates at the local courts. 
They understood the situation and instead of handing out, suspended sentences and warnings, actually handed down heavy fines, jail time and most importantly Convictions!

Law and order is a machine that has 3 mechanisms. The Govt, The Police and Judiciary. 
When all the mechanisms are working, as they are supposed to, the machine does its job. 
If one of those mechanisms breaks or is faulty. the machine stops working. 
At the moment none of the 3 mechanisms are working properly._


----------



## prawn_86 (22 February 2015)

Tink said:


> I have already given my views on drugs, Prawn
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...=21580&page=18&p=849866&viewfull=1#post849866
> 
> The last I saw, both possession and use of drugs are illegal in Victoria.
> ...




In answer to your 3 points:

1. I don't really see your view, just a link to an article, or did you write that? 

2. So just because something is law now means it should never be violated, debated or overturned? If that is the case shouldnt we all go back to hundreds of years ago with no womens or minorities rights also? Who gets to decide the law? I certainly didnt vote for drugs to be illegal or many of the other pointless laws...

3. If drug taking was not illegal then "dealers" etc would not exist and therefore the crime rates would not go up. 

If you are serious in educating yourself look at the example Portugal has set over the past 5 years. If you want to blindly believe that politicians know best and should be able to set every law (on top of the tens of thousands of them already) then i feel sorry for you 

I will ask the same questions:
How do you propose it is dealt with? The current system obviously doesnt work. Would you just keep throwing more and more money at the current system and hope that one day something would change?

As the 'war on drugs' budget has increased year on year, prison rates have gone up, yet prices and purity have improved and usage rates have remained at a stable percentage.

*By your reply i assume you are happy for goverments to keep throwing money at something that is proven not to work?*


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## Tink (22 February 2015)

If you read the article, it had my answer -

“The only way we are going to fix this is with zero tolerance … drug education without law enforcement is an absolute waste of money.”

But you can bet the Bartter’s tragedy will be twisted into a propaganda tool for drug liberalisers.

They claim we have lost the so-called war on drugs, but no one ever claimed it was a war that could be won.

What we have done before and can do again is make drugs harder to procure.
*
That starts with zero tolerance*


----------



## DB008 (22 February 2015)

Tink said:


> That starts with zero tolerance




I disagree.

I feel so sorry for young kids with epilepsy and people with cancer (young and old) who can benefit from MM - that is - Marijuana with basically NO THC (<1%) and a very high CDB (>15%) but are denied this.

NO THC = NO HIGH - but does have benefits to reduce pain and epileptic fits/episodes. This has been proven. It is fact.

Who are you and me to deny them this medicine? Just because the Government/Politicians said so? What a joke! This is where society and the political system is broken.

I do not, and never have, said that making Meth (Ice) & Heroin legal. That would be stupid. However, a different approach should be used because the current system is broken. Send addicts to compulsory military service or force them into apprenticeships and education. Sending them to prison is stupid and a waste of money.


----------



## prawn_86 (23 February 2015)

Tink said:


> What we have done before and can do again is make drugs harder to procure.
> *
> That starts with zero tolerance*




This is proven numerous times NOT to work. The usage rates for just about every drug stay the same no matter what the price, legality or availability are.

How would you propose policing this? Would it be mandatory drug tests for everyone? We would also need to spend billions building new prisons and then paying for inmate costs, who would pay for this?

I went to college with people who are now Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Dentists, business owners etc etc who all took various forms of illegal drugs. These are people who now contribute to society and pay more tax pa than the average wage. But according to you they should of all been locked up also?

Who decides what is illegal and not?

Here is a hypothetical for you Tink; If the government banned alcohol and sugar tomorrow (classified them the same as say weed) would you stop consuming them simply because the government said?


----------



## Tink (23 February 2015)

Prawn, don't bother, you will never change my mind to do with drugs.

The taxpayer is already forking out millions for these people, not just them, but the destruction to their families.
How you see that as good for society, beats me.

You can advocate all you like, but I won't be agreeing.

Sweden was mentioned in how they are doing things, but I haven't looked into it.


----------



## prawn_86 (23 February 2015)

Tink said:


> You can advocate all you like, but I won't be agreeing.
> 
> Sweden was mentioned in how they are doing things, *but I haven't looked into it.*




Exactly. There are better methods out there than what is currently happening so why stick with the status quo?


----------



## sydboy007 (23 February 2015)

prawn_86 said:


> Exactly. There are better methods out there than what is currently happening so why stick with the status quo?




Portugal needs to be held up as the way forward.

From the worst drug issue in Europe to one of the best in just a decade with their changed policies.

Turned the paradigm on it's head about what most believe about addiction.

We have, what 50 years of the war on drugs, spending more than ever on it, and still going backwards in many ways.  More people than ever locked up in prisons for non violent drug crimes.  What a waste, especially in the USA.


----------



## prawn_86 (23 February 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Portugal needs to be held up as the way forward.
> 
> From the worst drug issue in Europe to one of the best in just a decade with their changed policies.
> 
> ...




+1 yet there are still people like TInk who are not willing to consider a different opinion


----------



## sydboy007 (23 February 2015)

prawn_86 said:


> +1 yet there are still people like TInk who are not willing to consider a different opinion




This short video shows just how wrong most people's beliefs about drugs are.  I just wish bill had STFU and let the conversation flow more

[video=youtube_share;PxmvFRtYuYQ]http://youtu.be/PxmvFRtYuYQ[/video]

Maybe some of that rare as hens teeth Christian compassion is called for.

Will add Johann's book to my holiday reading list next month


----------



## moXJO (23 February 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Portugal needs to be held up as the way forward.
> 
> .




Can you post some stats as to why? 
Surely millions must have been saved in legal fees,prison and court costs, which would be the benefit of the process. Rehab numbers and death rates also benefiting. 
It would be interesting to compare Australias rate of drug use over 12 years compared to Portugals.
Australias rate of Heroin users dropped off a cliff from the 90s to now and I would question any benefit Portugal tried to attribute to it. I would think pot use would be (or was, may have spiked recently) on the decline as well.
The Portugal experiment showed decriminalization doesn't make it much worse or that much better.



> Portugal: did not fully decriminalise; personal users still face fines, compulsory treatment
> and bans. In 2004 an official evaluation found that while heroin overdose deaths and HIV
> rates had fallen, there was an increase in drug use among young people and deaths related
> to drugs other than opiates.
> ...








> The statistical indicators suggest that since the decriminalization in
> July 2001, the following developments have occurred:
> • Increased use of cannabis.
> • Decreased use of heroin.
> ...




https://kar.kent.ac.uk/13325/1/BFDPP_BP_14_EffectsOfDecriminalisation_EN.pdf.pdf


----------



## Julia (23 February 2015)

Thanks for bringing some balance here, moXJO.

Prawn, surely Tink is as entitled to her opinion as anyone else?

Radio National has recently aired a very interesting series of three one-hour programs actually recording the workings of the NSW Drug Court.  Addicts are offered rehabilitation and supervision as an alternative to jail sentences.  Obviously the names of individuals have been altered, but the actual conversations in the court are real and the exchanges very candid.
It seems like a valid process that hopefully might be extended to other jurisdictions.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/earshot-inside-the-drug-court/6079262


----------



## sydboy007 (23 February 2015)

moXJO said:


> Can you post some stats as to why?
> Surely millions must have been saved in legal fees,prison and court costs, which would be the benefit of the process. Rehab numbers and death rates also benefiting.
> It would be interesting to compare Australias rate of drug use over 12 years compared to Portugals.
> Australias rate of Heroin users dropped off a cliff from the 90s to now and I would question any benefit Portugal tried to attribute to it. I would think pot use would be (or was, may have spiked recently) on the decline as well.
> ...




A good start is here - http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight

_Although the number of newly diagnosed HIV cases among people who inject drugs in Portugal is well above the European average,21 it has declined dramatically over the past decade, falling from 1,016 to 56 between 2001 and 2012.22 Over the same period, the number of new cases of AIDS among people who inject drugs also decreased, from 568 to 38.23 A similar, downward trend has been observed for cases of Hepatitis C and B among clients of drug treatment centres,24 despite an increase in the number of people seeking treatment.25_

or here - http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal

_(Estimated Number of Problem Drug Users in Portugal) "Results from national estimations on problematic drug use in Portugal indicate that there are between 6.2 and 7.4 problematic drug users for each 1,000 inhabitants aged 15-64 years, and between 1.5 and 3.0 for injecting drug users.
"Between 2000 and 2005, the estimate number of problematic drug users in Portugal has shown a clear decline, with special relevance for injecting drug users."_

Then think of the cost of the drug war in the USA

http://www.statisticsviews.com/details/feature/5914551/The-statistics-of-drug-legalization.html

_Just consider that, in 2005, the estimated average daily cost per state prison inmate in the US was of $67.55 per day. Nowadays, there are over 500,000 inmates in prison due to drug related crimes, so the costs of state prisons are exploding in the country with the highest inmate population in the planet._

_The European Drug Report 2013 (14) agrees. The report signals no evidence of any increase in the lifetime of an adult's prevalence of use on any of the major drugs, such as cocaine, cannabis or amphetamines. Portugal's prevalence is usually lower than the European average and it is lower than that of other European countries._

I find it weird that people with a couple of joints can end up in jail for months yet financial advisors that bilk millions from clients are still waking the streets.

We don't have to be extreme libertarians, but if someone's drug use isn't stopping them from functioning within society, they're not driving or doing some form of work where their altered state of mind could cause harm, then really why are we spending tens of billions around the world putting these people into jail where they come out more likely than not as hardened criminals?  Someone who lites up a doobie on a Sat night and watches an old 80s flash Gordon movie for a laugh shouldn't face criminal prosecution.  There's not really any evidence that mary jane acts as a doorway drug to harder drugs later on.

With a budget deficit of $100M a day possibly the colarado / netherlands way with some tax revenues is the way to go, with extra funding for drug education and treatment programs.  We tax tobacco and alcohol for it's harmful effects.  Why not other drugs too?


----------



## Tink (23 February 2015)

Thanks, Julia.

This all started because I posted about an area in Melbourne having problems with heroin, Richmond, which by the way, is around the commission flats, from what I have been told.
I only posted it because of what was happening in Indonesia.

By taxpayers, I wasn't just talking about prison, I was talking about mental health, welfare, child services etc etc that gets dragged into these cases.


----------



## moXJO (23 February 2015)

ok I hope I read these stats and that I am comparing them right



> There has been a downward trend in last years on the weight of drug addicts, in the total number of cases diagnosed each year with HIV infection (10%, 14%, 15%, 20% and 22%, of the cases diagnosed in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007), as in the cases diagnosed each year with AIDS (17%, 25%, 25%, 28% and 31% of the cases diagnosed in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007) - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal#sthash.Gbh7kQMm.dpuf




So thats for portugal



> The population size of people who inject drugs is estimated to be 89 000 – 205 000
> in Australia [3].
> • HIV prevalence among people who inject drugs in Australia, as measured in the
> Australian Needle and Syringe Program Survey [4], increased from 1.1% in 2004 to 2.1%
> ...



http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/statistics-trends#illicit
Australia has been pretty consistently low


On any illicit drug used


> 15% of Australians used an illicit drug (including using a pharmaceutical drug for non-medical purposes) in the previous 12 months.
> 
> 41.8% of Australians aged 14 years and over had used illicit drugs in their lifetime.
> 
> - See more at: http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/statistics-trends#illicit






> Between 2007 and 2012, in the set of the Portuguese population was verified for almost all drugs a decrease in lifetime prevalence (of any illicit drug from 12% to 9.5%) and recent use (of any illicit drug from 3.7% to 2.7%) as well as decrease in continuity rates of use (of any illicit drug from 31% to 28%).
> 
> Between 2007 and 2012 in the set of the Portuguese population there was a general decrease in lifetime prevalence20 (any illicit drug from 12% to 9.5%) and recent use (any illicit drug from 3.7% to 2.7%), with the exception of ecstasy and LSD, whose lifetime prevalence remained the same and LSD use in last 12 months increased slightly. "Among the young adult population was also found a generalized decrease in lifetime prevalence use (any illicit drug from 17.4% to 14.5%) and in the last 12 months (any illicit drug from 7% to 5.1%) except in the case of LSD where lifetime prevalence remained the same and recent use increased slightly." - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal#sthash.Gbh7kQMm.dpuf




Thats from the site you listed



> The ESPAD survey results for 2011 showed that the lifetime prevalence of cannabis use was 16 % (13 % in 2007; 15 % in 2003; 8 % in 1999). The lifetime prevalence for inhalants was 6 % (4 % in 2007; 8 % in 2003; 3 % in 1999), and for all other substances lifetime prevalence was reported at 3 %. The results indicated 16 % for last year prevalence of cannabis use (10 % in 2007; 13 % in 2003; 9 % in 1999), and 9 % for last month prevalence (6 % in 2007; 8 % in 2003; 5 % in 1999). Despite the downward trend observed during 2002–06, the most recent ESPAD study corroborates the findings of the HBSC study, showing an increase in consumption of illicit substances since 2006. This trend is observed among both male and female students.



http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/country-overviews/pt

from another site

Australias drug death rate in 2009 was 1383 which was worse than our road toll same year 1323.

Portugal was 27 in 2009 from a high of roughly 400 in 2001ish. Not sure of the 1990's stats.
Back in 1998, Portugal reported 1,865 fatalities on its roads. By 2009, this figure had plummeted to 738. Ok, so thats a kick in the nuts as well.
not sure if they included something else in the aussie death stats but that is what 50 or so times Portugal's death rate(not adjusted for pop) seems really high.
portugal's population is something like 10 487 289
Ours is something like 22.72 million.
Maybe we just like taking risks. As a nation the national pastime seems to be dying - when looking at the stats. Yep ok I'm in, we need to do better


----------



## sydboy007 (24 February 2015)

moXJO said:


> ok I hope I read these stats and that I am comparing them right
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We've had 50 years of a failing war on drugs.  No statistic from it looks good.  It's costly in terms of $$$, and even more costly when looked at in terms of lives, whether destroyed lives of people being churned through the legal system or deaths due to draconian drug laws like in Russia where trying to get a clean needle can lead you to be jailed - so you either get HIV / HEP B or C from using dirty needles or try to avoid that and end up in jail for sourcing a clean needle where you can also get TB amongst other blood borne diseases.

In my more youthful days of partying it was all about harm minimisation.  Not sure how things were done at more heterosexual parties, but at the ones catering more for gays and their friends the attitude was all wrapped up around harm minimisation.  If you don't feel well, seek help.  If you think your friend is having trouble, seek help.  Drink water regularly, but not too much.  Have a break.  Head to the medical tent if you need help.  No judgements.

Education needs to be more honest.  Too many younger people know popping an X or having the odd joint doesn't destroy your life.  It can if you have other problems and start to use drugs to not face them, but then people do that with alcohol already.  It just annoys me every time I hear of some relatively young person overdosing on X due to a lack of understanding.  We can do a lot better.

Surely police have better things to do with their time than having 10-12 officers and a dog or two at Redfern station sniffing out those who've got a joint in their pocket.  I'd prefer those officers walking their local beat and getting a better fit into the community.

I also think we have to move away from seeing drug use as a moral issue.  It's not, unless drinking alcohol and smoking are also moral issues - they're not.  Taking "illegal" drugs doesn't make you a bad person.  We need a far more evidence based way of dealing with drug use, but also an acceptance that drug use has been around for probably as long as humans.  To think it can be eradicated is part of the problem we face.  Focusing on minimising the harm and ensuring people can seek help is the cheapest and best way forward.


----------



## DB008 (25 February 2015)

*Dan Haslam, who changed Mike Baird's views on medicinal cannabis, dies of cancer*​


> Dan Haslam, the young Tamworth man whose story about using cannabis to relieve the pain of cancer was instrumental to changing Premier Mike Baird's position on medicinal use of the drug, has died.
> 
> "He never complained, he didn't stop fighting right until the end," Mr Haslam's mother, Lucy, told Fairfax Media's Northern Daily Leader.
> 
> ...




http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/dan-haslam-who-changed-mike-bairds-views-on-medicinal-cannabis-dies-of-cancer-20150225-13o6pk.html


----------



## DB008 (25 February 2015)

*Alaska allows recreational marijuana as legalization campaign spreads*​



> (Reuters) - Smoking, growing and owning small amounts of marijuana became legal in Alaska on Tuesday as a growing decriminalization movement reached the United States' northwest frontier.
> 
> Alaska, which narrowly passed the measure in November, followed Colorado and Washington among states allowing recreational use, reflecting a rapidly shifting legal landscape for the drug.




http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/24/us-usa-alaska-marijuana-idUSKBN0LS0ZH20150224​


----------



## DB008 (28 February 2015)




----------



## DB008 (6 March 2015)

Calling Tink

Calling Tink....




> *Texas Republican Wants to Legalize Pot Because "God Doesn't Make Mistakes"*
> 
> The most progressive plan yet to fix Texas' backwards marijuana policy has come from, of all places, a Longview Republican.
> A new bill from State Rep. David Simpson would control pot just like any other plant.
> ...


----------



## DB008 (16 March 2015)

*Nevada marijuana legalization gets official OK for 2016 ballot​*


> LAS VEGAS ”” Nevada’s top election official gave the go-ahead Monday to two initiatives for the 2016 ballot: One to allow recreational marijuana use; the other to tighten background checks for anyone buying guns from private sellers and gun show exhibitors.
> 
> Secretary of State Ross Miller certified that proponents of the separate measures submitted enough signatures Nov. 12 to force the 2015 Legislature to consider each issue, or automatically put the question on the general election ballot.
> 
> ...




http://www.thecannabist.co/2014/12/08/nevada-marijuana-legalization-2016-ballot/24954/




*NSW marijuana legalization gets official OK for 2090 ballot*


> Just kidding.....


----------



## DB008 (30 March 2015)

*Kofi Annan: The War on Drugs Has Failed in West Africa and Around the World​*


> In 2013, a United Nations report estimated that the cocaine trade through West Africa was worth at least $1.25 billion a year. This is higher than the combined government budgets of several countries in the region, which has become an important transhipment point between Latin America producers and consumers in the United States and Europe.
> 
> This cash flow threatens to corrode the institutions of the state and undermine economic progress and democratic practice in a part of the world that has only recently emerged from several decades of violent conflict and instability.
> 
> ...




http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/kofi-annan-the-war-on-drugs-has-failed-in-west-africa-and-around-the-world​


----------



## DB008 (10 April 2015)

*U.S. Legalization of Marijuana Has Hit Mexican Cartels’ Cross-Border Trade​*


> Agents on the 2,000 mile-U.S. border have wrestled with these smuggling techniques for decades, seemingly unable to stop the northward flow of drugs and southward flow of dollars and guns. But the amount of one drug ”” marijuana ”” seems to have finally fallen. *U.S. Border Patrol has been seizing steadily smaller quantities of the drug, from 2.5 million pounds in 2011 to 1.9 million pounds in 2014. Mexico’s army has noted an even steeper decline, confiscating 664 tons of cannabis in 2014, a drop of 32% compared to year before.*
> 
> *This fall appears to have little to do with law enforcement, however, and all to do with the wave of U.S. marijuana legalization. The votes by Colorado and Washington State to legalize marijuana in 2012, followed by Alaska, Oregon and D.C. last year have created a budding industry.* U.S. growers produce gourmet products with exotic names such as White Widow, Golden Goat and Oaktown Crippler as opposed to the bog-standard Mexican “mota.” *American dispensaries even label their drugs, showing how strong they are, measured in THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the main psychoactive ingredient), and grade their mix of sativa*, which gets people stoned in a psychedelic way and indica, which has a more knock-out effect.







> Drug policy reformists tout this market shift from Mexican gangsters to American licensed growers as a reason to spread legalization. *“It is no surprise to me that marijuana consumers choose to buy their product from a legal tax-paying business as opposed to a black market product that is not tested or regulated,” says Tom Angell, chairman of Marijuana Majority. “When you go to a legal store, you know what you are getting, and that is not going to be contaminated.”* A group called Marijuana Doctors elaborate the point in this comical online ad.
> 
> Analysts are still trying to work out the long-term effect this shift will have on Mexican cartel finances and violence. *The legal marijuana industry could be the fastest growing sector of the U.S. economy. It grew 74% in 2014 to $2.7 billion*, according to the ArcView group, a cannabis investment and research firm. This includes revenue from both recreational drug stores and from medical marijuana, which has been legalized in 23 states. The group predicts the industry will top $4 billion by 2016.




http://time.com/3801889/us-legalization-marijuana-trade/​


----------



## DB008 (20 April 2015)

*Medical cannabis: Queensland, Victoria and New South Wales 
join forces on cannabis oil in medical trials​*



> The Queensland and Victorian state governments have joined forces with New South Wales to take part in medicinal cannabis clinical trials.
> 
> The NSW Government introduced the scientific trials last year to help treat patients with drug-resistant and uncontrollable epilepsy.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-19/queensland-victoria-join-nsw-medicinal-cannabis-trial/6403760


----------



## DB008 (1 May 2015)

*Italy: Army unveils 'cut-price cannabis' farm​*


> The Italian army has unveiled its first cannabis farm, set up to try to lower the cost of medical marijuana in the country.
> 
> The army's foray into cannabis production was first announced by the government in September, and its first crop is coming along nicely, the Corriere della Sera website reports. The plants are being grown in a secure room at a military-run pharmaceutical plant in Florence, and the army expects to churn out 100kg (220lb) of the drug annually. The site also houses drying and packing facilities. "The aim of this operation is to make available to a growing number of patients a medical product which isn't always readily available on the market, at a much better price for the user," Col Antonio Medica tells the website. Medical marijuana is considered beneficial to treat a variety of conditions, particularly for managing chronic pain.
> 
> While Italian doctors can legally prescribe the drug, the cost isn't covered by the state. It is often prohibitively expensive for patients to buy it legally at pharmacies, something ministers want to change. At the moment medical marijuana is imported from abroad - primarily from the Netherlands - and costs up to 35 euros per gram. "We're aiming to lower the price to under 15 euros, maybe even around 5 euros per gram," says Col Medica. Private cannabis cultivation remains illegal in Italy, and selling the drug is also against the law.





http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-32531376

Meanwhile, Australia still has it's head in the sand....


----------



## DB008 (20 May 2015)

It has now started.

I heard this on the way home tonight. Very insightful. Pump out a few tons per year, employ up to 80 people during harvesting season, help people who are in chronic pain/suffer epilepsy. Why is the rest of the nation so daffed? Politics I guess....


*Medical Cannabis on Norfolk Island gets the green light!​*


> Medicinal Cannabis crops will be grown, harvested and exported from Norfolk Island from June next year.
> 
> Australian company AusCann has signed a landmark license agreement - planting will begin this year.
> 
> Elaine Darby is the Managing Director of AusCann - Australasian Medicinal Cannabis.




http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2015/05/medical-cannabis-.html?site=brisbane&program=612_drive​


----------



## dutchie (22 May 2015)

Taking Ice looks like fun....

 Ice addict ‘gouged out eyes and ate them’ 

http://www.news.com.au/national/ice-addict-gouged-out-eyes-and-ate-them/story-e6frfkp9-1227365119730


Idiot.


----------



## DB008 (28 May 2015)

*MDMA-assisted therapy: A new treatment model for social anxiety in autistic adults​*




> *Highlights​*
> •Pure MDMA used in approved clinical settings is far safer than recreational use of Ecstasy or Molly.
> 
> •MDMA-assisted therapy could reduce social anxiety symptoms and increase social adaptability.
> ...







http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584615000603​


----------



## DB008 (3 June 2015)

*Texas Governor Signs Bill Legalizing Cannabis Oil for Epilepsy Sufferers​*



> On Monday, Texas Governor Greg Abbott signed a bill into law legalizing the medicinal use of low-THC cannabis oil for patients suffering from intractable epileptic seizures.
> 
> On Monday, Texas Governor Greg Abbott signed Senate Bill 339 into law, thus legalizing the medicinal use of low-THC, non-euphoric cannabis oil for the treatment of intractable epileptic seizures. According to The Texas Tribune, Governor Abbott said that the bill offers “healing and hope for children who are afflicted by relentless seizures caused by epilepsy.”
> 
> ...





http://truthinmedia.com/texas-governor-signs-bill-legalizing-cannabis-oil-for-epilepsy-sufferers/​


----------



## DB008 (12 June 2015)

Meanwhile in Canada...


*Medical marijuana legal in all forms, Supreme Court rules​*


> Medical marijuana patients will now be able to consume marijuana ”” and not just smoke it ”” as well as use other extracts and derivatives, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled today.
> 
> The unanimous ruling against the federal government expands the definition of medical marijuana beyond the "dried" form.
> 
> ...


----------



## orr (17 June 2015)

The US State Colorado is on it's way to reaping almost $100 million in tax revenue... 2016 from cannabis /marijuana /hoooch /dope /reefer...... whilst observing a drop use by the teenage component of the population. 

http://www.economist.com/content/global-compass-drugs-war-or-store

How much longer will the conservatives cost this country our youth our economy our tax base whilst enriching criminals  with obstinate wrong-headedness .


----------



## DB008 (17 June 2015)

orr said:


> How much longer will the conservatives cost this country our youth our economy our tax base whilst enriching criminals  with obstinate wrong-headedness .





Pros
Tax revenue income from sales (ie, Colorado, as mentioned above)
Regulated market (so you know what you are purchasing, not some back-yard B.S.)


Cons
Big pharma can't control/patent it
Black market involvement (Including Gov departments - *CIA*)



Anyways.....



> *Boy Using Cannabis Oil: ‘I’d Rather Be Illegally Alive Than Legally Dead’​*
> DENVER (CBS4) – There is new research on the use of marijuana as medicine in Colorado and a Marijuana and Health Symposium at National Jewish Health on Saturday explored nearly a dozen studies looking at using pot for things like seizures and insomnia.
> 
> Four times a day Coltyn takes his medicine. It’s cannabis oil used to treat his Crohn’s disease, an illness he’s been fighting since age 11, and up until last year it looked like a battle he was losing.
> ...




http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/06/13/boy-using-cannabis-oil-id-rather-be-illegally-alive-than-legally-dead/​


----------



## DB008 (10 July 2015)

Just read an article in the AFR about marijuana. Really puts things into perspective. It's only a matter of time before Australia changes it archaic stance....

Even the U.N. is changing it's tune...

I don't subscribe to the AFR, but if someone could find it, and post a link or quotes on it, that would be great.


----------



## sydboy007 (12 July 2015)

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-deba...rdo-salinas-thinks-drugs-should-be-legalized/



> Prohibition was a failure in the 1920s, and, for similar reasons, the so-called war on drugs has been a disaster. Forty years after Richard Nixon declared this war, consumption worldwide is up, violence has increased and the rule of law has collapsed, especially in Latin America.
> 
> Basic economics tells us that when there is artificial pressure on supply, prices go up and margins increase ”” the perfect incentives for criminal activities. The same mistake was made in the United States almost a century ago with Prohibition. As early as 1925, some observers started to see that this policy, far from stopping crime, was leading to the formation of large networks of well-funded crime syndicates.






> In a recent global report on homicides produced by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, it is suggested that poverty and inequality are the main factors that explain the increase in crime rates across Latin America. Curiously in Africa, a region much poorer than Latin America, homicide rates have not shot up and the U.N. report does not offer a coherent explanation why this is the case.






> *The U.N. report correctly points out that there is a clear correlation between levels of impunity and homicide rates, a phenomenon that is unmanageable in some regions of Mexico and Central America. It should be noted that seven of the eight most violent countries in the world are located on the cocaine route to the United States.*






> It’s been more than 40 years since the war on drugs was declared in Washington. Mexico has blindly followed the lead of its northern neighbor throughout this period, and there is little to show for it beyond the rise of violence and the steady decomposition of society. The economic forces are too vast. This is a multibillion-dollar industry that has subverted social order and the rule of law. *Prohibition only means that the state has renounced its right to regulate narcotics by leaving this activity and its enforcement at the sole discretion of the drug lords.*


----------



## DB008 (15 July 2015)

I've posted stuff like this before. Seems to be gaining traction...

*A team has begun clinical tests to see if MDMA can cure PTSD​*


> POST-traumatic stress disorder can be a crippling illness that forces those suffering to re-experience trauma through flashbacks or nightmares.
> 
> Unfortunately, for many people suffering PTSD, the conventional remedies such as daily medications and behavioural therapies often have no effect.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/a-team-has-begun-clinical-tests-to-see-if-mdma-can-cure-ptsd/story-fnpjxnlk-1227443001601?from=public_rss​


----------



## DB008 (19 July 2015)

*Hawaii approves medical marijuana dispensaries​*


> It’s been 15 years since Hawaii legalized medical marijuana, but now the island state finally plans to roll out dispensaries.
> 
> Hawaiian Gov. David Ige signed a bill on Tuesday that would allow medical marijuana dispensaries to legally operate, reports the LA Times.
> 
> ...




http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2015/07/16/hawaii-approves-medical-marijuana-dispensaries/​


----------



## DB008 (19 July 2015)

*Colorado pot tax for schools hits record, exceeding 2014 total by May*​


> DENVER –  A year after Colorado's marijuana tax for schools came in far short of its goal, the fund is setting records and has accrued more money in the first five months in 2015 than it did for all of 2014.
> 
> Recently released tax data showed the 15 percent excise tax for school construction hit $3.5 million in May, the most recent data available. That brings the 2015 total to $13.7 million, edging the $13.3 million it raised in all of 2014.
> 
> ...




http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2015/07/14/colorado-pot-tax-for-schools-hits-record-exceeding-2014-total-by-may/​


----------



## DB008 (26 July 2015)

*Senators give medical marijuana the green light​*



> Senators from across the political divide will endorse a bill to legalise medical marijuana despite warnings it could create a regulatory nightmare.
> 
> Fairfax Media can reveal that a committee made up of Coalition, Labor and crossbench senators will strongly recommend that Parliament pass a cross-party bill to set up a medical marijuana regulator.
> Spearheaded by Greens Leader Richard Di Natale​, the Regulator of Medicinal Cannabis Bill would effectively make the federal government responsible for overseeing the production, distribution and use of the drug.
> ...





http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/senators-give-medical-marijuana-the-green-light-20150725-gik5oq​


----------



## DB008 (7 August 2015)

*The Washington Post​*
*Better late than never: The DEA admits that marijuana is safer than heroin​*


> It's official: the U.S. government's top drug cop has acknowledged that marijuana is less dangerous than heroin.
> 
> At a meeting with reporters yesterday at the headquarters of the Drug Enforcement Administration, acting chief Chuck Rosenberg said that "heroin is clearly more dangerous than marijuana," Matt Ferner of the Huffington Post reports. This clarifies a statement he made last week, when he told reporters that marijuana was "probably not" as dangerous as heroin, adding "I'm not an expert."
> 
> This shouldn't be news. Researchers have known for decades that marijuana is a much safer substance than heroin -- and nearly all other psychoactive drugs, for that matter. Heroin overdoses kill thousands of people each year, while marijuana has no known toxic dose. It's considerably less habit-forming than heroin, alcohol, nicotine and other drugs. And medical marijuana treatments hold a lot of potential -- particularly as an alternative to dangerous prescription painkillers.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/08/06/better-late-than-never-the-dea-admits-that-marijuana-is-safer-than-heroin/​


----------



## explod (7 August 2015)

Whew,  this thread is so off topic. 

Absolutely all drugs should be legal.  Our life is in our own hands. 

If drugs were legal we would know to accept the consequences,  it would cut out the illegal production and distribution, the Government would collect the taxes from it and the excitement of doing something forbidden would be gone.   With younger ones in particular,  when it is ordinary it is no longer interesting.


----------



## DB008 (29 August 2015)

​


----------



## DB008 (29 August 2015)

Lets keep our heads in the sand everyone......



*Pioneer Pot States Have Collected More Than $200 Million In Marijuana Taxes*​




> The first two states to legalize recreational marijuana have collectively raked in at least $200 million in marijuana tax revenue, according to the latest tax data -- and they're putting those dollars to good use.
> 
> In Colorado, after about a year and a half of legal recreational marijuana sales, the state has collected more than $117 million in excise taxes from both the recreational and medical marijuana markets, according to the most recent data from the Colorado Department of Revenue.
> 
> ...








http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/washington-colorado-marijuana-taxes_55d6133be4b07addcb45e65d?section=australia&adsSiteOverride=au​


----------



## awg (1 September 2015)

So what about Cannabis and driving?

It would seem that the current tests used by police may detect cannabis ~24 - 48hrs after consumption

NO LEVEL is legal.

~1 in 6 random tested are failing

Will they set a threshold?  Do they do this where it is "legalised"

I have no doubt that cannabis impairs driving substantially, while its effects are upon the user, 
however it wears off in a few hours, and 24-48 hrs makes a mockery of the law (although it is illegal to use cannabis at all)


----------



## DB008 (4 September 2015)

awg said:


> So what about Cannabis and driving?
> 
> It would seem that the current tests used by police may detect cannabis ~24 - 48hrs after consumption
> 
> ...





I already posted that there is a limit on driving while using cannabis in some US States. 

I just Googled and found this.



> In Colorado, a person is guilty of a DUI if he or she operates a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol and/or one or more drugs, OR he or she operates a motor vehicle as an habitual user of any controlled substance. Colo. Rev. Stat. Ann.  § 42-4-1301(1)(a)-(c) (West 2010).
> 
> The law states that in instances where THC is identified in a driver's blood in quantities of 5ng/ml or higher, "such fact gives rise to permissible inference that the defendant was under the influence."




http://norml.org/legal/item/colorado-drugged-driving​



> Q: Is there a legal limit for marijuana impairment while operating a vehicle?
> 
> 
> A: Colorado law specifies that drivers with five nanograms of active tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in their whole blood can be prosecuted for driving under the influence (DUI). However, no matter the level of THC, law enforcement officers base arrests on observed impairment.




https://www.codot.gov/safety/alcohol-and-impaired-driving/druggeddriving/marijuana-and-driving​


----------



## DB008 (23 September 2015)

Better than the money going to gangs/cartels....don't you think?


*Colorado's marijuana tax revenues nearly double last year's figures*​



> Legal marijuana tax revenues have been breaking records in Colorado this summer, nearly doubling monthly numbers from last year and on pace to exceed projections of legal sales that bring revenue back to the state.
> 
> Through the first seven months of this year, Colorado has brought in nearly $73.5m, putting the state on pace to collect over $125m for the year.
> 
> In 2014, experts predicted legal cannabis would bring in upwards of $70m to the state’s tax coffers. In reality, the state collected just $44m in marijuana taxes.




http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/21/colorado-marijuana-tax-revenues-2015​


----------



## DB008 (6 October 2015)

Thanks to Gringotts Bank for bringing this to my attention.



​



*Victoria to grow its own medical marijuana​*



> Victoria is set to become the first state in Australia to legalise marijuana cultivation to treat serious medical conditions including cancer, multiple sclerosis, HIV/AIDS, epilepsy and chronic pain.
> 
> But the push - underpinned by a landmark report by the Victorian Law Reform Commission - hinges on the agreement of the Turnbull government, which is a signatory to international rules covering the cultivation and manufacture of cannabis.
> 
> ...




http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-to-grow-its-own-medical-marijuana-20151006-gk2bev.html​


----------



## DB008 (16 October 2015)

*Medicinal cannabis planting roots in Australia​*



> AUSTRALIAN-grown and regulated medicinal cannabis will soon be available for the first time with the states and the Commonwealth set to draw up procedures to help the chronically ill.
> 
> Medically-prescribed doses of the drug, which otherwise will remain illegal, will be used to ease the condition of the terminally ill suffering pain, nausea and vomiting. The doses also will help children with drug-resistant epilepsy.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/medicinal-cannabis-planting-roots-in-australia/story-fneuzlbd-1227572099248​


----------



## DB008 (5 November 2015)

*Sanders Introduces Bill To Lift Federal Ban On Marijuana​*


> Democratic presidential candidate and Independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders introduced a bill Wednesday to end the federal prohibition on marijuana, the first such bill to ever be introduced in the Senate, according to marijuana legalization advocates.
> 
> Sanders went farther than any other presidential candidate last week on the question of ending the drug war when he called for lifting the federal ban on marijuana, and he followed up this week by introducing a bill in the Senate to remove marijuana from the federal government’s list of Schedule I drugs, which includes other illegal substances such as heroin and LSD.
> 
> ...




http://www.buzzfeed.com/cjciaramella/sanders-introduces-bill-to-lift-federal-ban-on-marijuana#.bhLp4RmPR​


----------



## DB008 (7 November 2015)

*The Push for Legal Marijuana Spreads​*


> Support for making marijuana legal is increasing around the world, and that is a good thing. Earlier this week, the Mexican Supreme Court opened the door to legalizing the drug by giving four plaintiffs the right to grow cannabis for personal use.
> 
> In Canada, the newly sworn in prime minister, Justin Trudeau, has said he intends to change the law so people can use the drug recreationally; medicinal use is already legal in that country. And in the United States, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who is seeking the Democratic nomination for president, recently introduced a bill that would let states decide if they want to make the drug legal without worrying about violating federal law.
> 
> Laws banning the growing, distribution and possession of marijuana have caused tremendous damage to society, with billions spent on imprisoning people for violating pointlessly harsh laws. Yet research shows that marijuana is far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco, and can be used to treat medical conditions like chronic pain.




http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/06/opinion/the-push-for-legal-marijuana-spreads.html?_r=0​
l have reviewed my stance on legalization here in Oz.

5 years (or less), before we see dispensaries in VIC or NSW. QLD l'm not so sure about (the idiots here can't even do daylight saving - where l am currently based).

Once politicians see the dollars coming in, less spending on jail(s), freeing up of courts, less police red tape and time wasted, actually seeing kids with epilepsy (+ other disabilities) benefit and then their parents raving about it on Facebook (and main media), it will reach critical mass and the laws will change.


----------



## DB008 (7 November 2015)

*Prescription painkiller deaths fall in medical marijuana states​*


> NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Researchers aren’t sure why, but in the 23 U.S. states where medical marijuana has been legalized, deaths from opioid overdoses have decreased by almost 25 percent, according to a new analysis.
> 
> “Most of the discussion on medical marijuana has been about its effect on individuals in terms of reducing pain or other symptoms,” said lead author Dr. Marcus Bachhuber in an email to Reuters Health. “The unique contribution of our study is the finding that medical marijuana laws and policies may have a broader impact on public health.”
> 
> ...




http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/25/us-medical-marijuana-deaths-idUSKBN0GP1UJ20140825​


----------



## DB008 (25 November 2015)

*Cannabis Coffee Makers Are Hoping to Become Bulletproof 2.0​*


> It was during an endless drive home from a camping trip in eastern Washington that entrepreneur Adam Stites came up with his latest product. "What would happen if I infused heavy cream with cannabis, then mixed it with my coffee?" he mused. (“My VW van doesn’t go very fast, so I have a lot of time to think,” Stites explains.)
> 
> He road-tested the idea as soon as he got home. So strong was the first dose, Stites woke up 13 hours after he chugged a single cup. Nonetheless, his professional interest was piqued. Not long after, he set up Mirth Provisions to sell a commercial version of his creation: marijuana-infused cold-brew coffee, dosed up with 20 milligrams of THC per serving. Waggishly named “Legal,” it’s the ultimate wake and bake.
> 
> ...





More on link below...



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-24/cannabis-coffee-makers-are-hoping-to-become-bulletproof-2-0​


----------



## DB008 (3 December 2015)

What a sad country we live in....the laws really need to change at some point in time..


*Perth mother who allegedly grew cannabis for mentally ill son could lose home under proceeds of crime law​*


> A 74-year-old Perth woman faces losing her home under the proceeds of crime law but says she was only growing cannabis to treat her mentally ill son, not to make money.
> 
> Nurse Miriam Down said she began treating her 44-year-old son George, who suffers from bipolar disorder, with cannabis several years ago.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-17/perth-mother-could-lose-house-after-growing-cannabis/6627674​


----------



## DB008 (23 December 2015)

*Colombia legalizes medical marijuana​*



> Bogota (AFP) - Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos signed a decree Tuesday legalizing and regulating medical marijuana, the latest softening of the country's hardline tactics in the war on drugs.
> 
> In a nationally televised address, Santos announced it would be fully legal to grow, process, import and export cannabis and its derivatives for medical and scientific use.
> 
> ...




http://news.yahoo.com/colombia-legalizes-medical-marijuana-171023547.html​


----------



## DB008 (8 January 2016)

What's next, Halal cannabis?   


*Kosher cannabis: New York medical pot grower says products are certified by the Orthodox Union​*



> ALBANY ”” This pot is kosher!
> 
> A marijuana grower gearing up for the start of New York’s medical pot program in January announced Wednesday that its products have been certified kosher by the Orthodox Union.
> 
> Vireo Health of New York, which was one of five companies chosen by the state to grow and distribute medical pot, said it will be the first “medical cannabis company in the world” to have the “OU” symbol on its oils, vaporization cartridges and other products.




http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/n-y-medical-pot-grower-products-certified-kosher-article-1.2481074​


----------



## DB008 (16 January 2016)

*Big Money Fights to Block Marijuana Legalization​*



> Pot! Glorious pot. Few issues have seen a more rapid shift in public opinion, with a majority of Americans now in favor of legalizing marijuana ”” up from just 34% a decade ago.
> 
> But not everybody is down with the reefer. Several industries are buying as much political influence as possible to quell the burgeoning legalization movement.
> 
> ...








> Take the pharmaceutical lobby. As retired police officer-turned-legalization advocate Howard Wooldridge explained to Republic Report, PhRMA is a top opponent of legalization, due to the emerging potential of marijuana as an alternative to “Advil, ibuprofen all the way to Vicodin, pills for nausea – I mean expensive store-bought pills.”
> 
> This claim has been borne out by excellent reporting from journalist Lee Fang, whose work highlights the deep ties between many national groups leading the charge against legalization and the makers of painkillers such as Oxycontin and Zohydrol.







> Rounding out the pack of legalization opponents is the prison industry. Police unions, often a major force in state and local politics, have funneled money to anti-legalization campaigns and lobbyists ”” in some cases to protect police access to federal funds made available to departments that tackle marijuana related offenses. Prison guard unions have spent big to defeat reform efforts that emphasize drug treatment programs instead of harsh prison sentences. And finally, there’s private prison companies, which have openly admitted that any changes to laws affecting drugs and controlled substances could reduce demand for prison beds and hurt their bottom line.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/26/after-legalization-colorado-pot-arrests-plunge/​


----------



## DB008 (3 February 2016)

Who would have thought? (Probably everyone...)

*Marijuana Legalization in Colorado Is Killing Mexican Drug Cartels​*


> Since 2014, Mexican drug cartels have been suffering economically after marijuana was legalized and became conveniently available in Colorado. Operations in Mexico and along the southern border of the United States have reportedly been affected.
> 
> According to an ABC News article, the legal production, sale and distribution of recreational marijuana in Colorado is one of the contributors of reduced smuggling operations by Mexican drug cartels. A post on the Weed Blog, a site that supports marijuana use and legalization, also acknowledges that drug trafficking by Mexican drug cartels waned, seeing a decline of up to 70 percent over the past two years in relation to Colorado's change in legislation.
> 
> The findings were confirmed by an official report by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in October 2015. The report indicated that there has been a year-on-year 23 percent reduction in border smuggling in 2014. Furthermore, authorities have seized about 900 tons of illegal marijuana along the U.S.- Mexican border.




http://www.latinpost.com/articles/112868/20160202/marijuana-legalization-colorado-killing-mexican-drug-cartels.htm​


----------



## DB008 (3 February 2016)

*Onetime party drug hailed as miracle for treating severe depression​*



> It was November 2012 when Dennis Hartman, a Seattle business executive, managed to pull himself out of bed, force himself to shower for the first time in days and board a plane that would carry him across the country to a clinical trial at the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) in Bethesda.
> 
> After a lifetime of profound depression, 25 years of therapy and cycling through 18 antidepressants and mood stabilizers, Hartman, then 46, had settled on a date and a plan to end it all. The clinical trial would be his last attempt at salvation.
> 
> ...





https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-one-time-party-drug-is-helping-people-with-deep-depression/2016/02/01/d3e73862-b490-11e5-a76a-0b5145e8679a_story.html​


----------



## DB008 (10 February 2016)

*New medical cannabis laws to be tabled, Sussan Ley confident of bipartisan support​*


> Legislation to allow the cultivation of cannabis in Australia for medical or scientific purposes will be introduced by the Federal Government today.
> 
> The establishment of a national cannabis cultivation scheme aims to pave the way for patients with painful and chronic conditions to access medicinal cannabis.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/medical-cannabis-cultivation-legislation-to-be-introduced/7154006​


----------



## DB008 (10 February 2016)

*After LDS church opposes medical marijuana bill, lawmaker will not back off*

*After LDS church opposes medical marijuana bill, lawmaker will not back off​*



> Salt Lake City ”” (KUTV) Utah Senator Mark Madsen said fighting old perceptions about pot have made his efforts to legalize medical marijuana an uphill battle. Then came another hurdle Friday when the Mormon Church said it opposed his bill.
> 
> Still, Madsen, who is Mormon, said he won't back down because polls show most Utah residents support the proposed law. Plus, people with serious medical conditions could really use the pain relief.
> 
> ...







> Madsen himself nearly died in 2007, when he accidentally overdosed on prescription pain medication.
> 
> His doctor prescribed him a fentanyl patch for back pain. The patch burst, sending the medication right into his bloodstream. His kids found him on the couch. He was cold and not breathing. His family revived him with the help of 911.
> 
> ...





http://kutv.com/news/local/after-lds-church-opposes-medical-marijuana-bill-lawmaker-will-not-back-off​


----------



## DB008 (19 February 2016)

*Cannabis Use and Risk of Psychiatric Disorders

Prospective Evidence From a US National Longitudinal Study​*



> *Importance*  With rising rates of marijuana use in the general population and an increasing number of states legalizing recreational marijuana use and authorizing medical marijuana programs, there are renewed clinical and policy concerns regarding the mental health effects of cannabis use.
> 
> *Objective * To examine prospective associations between cannabis use and risk of mental health and substance use disorders in the general adult population.
> 
> ...




http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2491944​


----------



## Gringotts Bank (2 March 2016)

DB, I haven't read the thread for a while, but thought I'd save myself a Google search and ask you if you knew if marijuana was available legally anywhere in Aus for pain relief or any other purpose.  Cheers.


----------



## DB008 (2 March 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> DB, I haven't read the thread for a while, but thought I'd save myself a Google search and ask you if you knew if marijuana was available legally anywhere in Aus for pain relief or any other purpose.  Cheers.




I'm not entirely sure with all the trials and what-not going on. There are reports of people who are using MM already via doctors scripts.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (2 March 2016)

DB008 said:


> I'm not entirely sure with all the trials and what-not going on. There are reports of people who are using MM already via doctors scripts.




Ok thanks.  I'm guessing only certain doctors can prescribe it?  Or is it anyone?


----------



## DB008 (9 March 2016)

*Cannabis legalisation in UK 'would raise £1bn a year in taxes'​*


> Legalising the sale of cannabis in specialist shops would generate £1bn a year in tax revenue and reduce the harm done to users and society, according to the most detailed plans ever drawn up for the liberalisation of UK drug laws.
> 
> The study, which was carried out by a panel of experts including scientists, academics and police chiefs, calls for the UK to follow the lead of some US states and allow the sale of cannabis to over-18s in licensed retail stores.
> 
> The report’s conclusions will form the basis of a new drugs policy being drawn up by the Liberal Democrat Party, which is expected to debate the issue at its spring conference later this week.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legalisation-marijuana-uk-1bn-a-year-in-taxes-a6918161.html​


----------



## luutzu (9 March 2016)

DB008 said:


> *Cannabis legalisation in UK 'would raise £1bn a year in taxes'​*
> 
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legalisation-marijuana-uk-1bn-a-year-in-taxes-a6918161.html​




I guess free pr0n, mass media and American cinemas aren't as effective at keeping the masses drugged out anymore. And they can make money out of it too... dam. Good for users and benefits to society alright.


----------



## DB008 (23 March 2016)

*Supreme Court Rejects Lawsuit Against Colorado​*



> In a major victory for state’s rights Monday, the Supreme Court rejected an effort by Nebraska and Oklahoma to have Colorado’s pot legalization declared unconstitutional.
> 
> The final ruling came out at 6-2 and although the justices have not publicly commented, their dismissal of the case puts an end to the lengthy lawsuit launched against Colorado by the two neighboring states.
> 
> ...





https://massroots.com/blog/supreme-court-rejects-lawsuit-against-colorado​


----------



## DB008 (24 March 2016)

*The Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies believes that MDMA-assisted psychotherapy could be legal by 2021.​*



> Rsearchers have concluded that MDMA ”” otherwise known as Molly; otherwise known as methylenedioxymethamphetamine; otherwise known as Millennial aspirin ”” is one of several psychedelic drugs useful in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder. As Phase 2 of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies’ MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study comes to an end, the non-profit research and educational organization plans to meet this spring with the FDA to plan crucial Phase 3 clinical trials, which could lead to a new kind of prescription. And the application likely won’t end with PTSD. Because MDMA is known for increasing feelings of trust and compassion towards others, it’s an ideal adjunct to psychotherapy.





https://www.inverse.com/article/13196-mdma-steps-closer-to-fda-approval-as-a-drug-but-now-it-needs-to-leap​


----------



## DB008 (1 April 2016)

*Medical marijuana in the US should be governed by science, not politics​*



> In 2013, Patrick and Beth Collins were desperate. 13-year-old Jennifer, the younger of their two children, faced a life-threatening situation. In response, the Collins family took extreme measures””sending Jennifer thousands of miles away in the company of her mother. Beth and Jennifer became refugees from a capricious government whose laws threatened Jennifer’s health, the family’s safety, and the life they had built together.
> 
> Beth and Jennifer did not run from crime or war or famine. They did not flee from some country ruled by a murderous despot to a less dangerous place. They are Americans who found it necessary to move from their home in Virginia to another state in order to seek treatment for Jennifer’s serious medical condition””a treatment that was illegal according to the laws of both Virginia and the federal government.
> 
> And so, in Dec. 2013, Beth and Jennifer said goodbye to Patrick and to Jennifer’s older sister, Alexandra. They moved to Colorado, joining thousands of other people who’d gone there wanting to avail themselves of one version or another of this taboo treatment: marijuana-based medicine. Their hope? That Colorado cannabis would do what prescription drugs could not””treat Jennifer’s epilepsy.




http://qz.com/646393/medical-marijuana-in-the-us-should-be-governed-by-science-not-politics/​


----------



## Tisme (17 October 2016)

Flakka has hit the Gold Coast. Frightening new party drug"

e.g.


----------



## DB008 (28 October 2016)

*Recreational weed could be a $22.6B industry: study​*



> Sales of legalized recreational marijuana would surpass combined sales of beer, wine, and spirits, it says.
> 
> Legalized recreational marijuana promises to spark a $22.6-billion industry in Canada, eclipsing combined sales of beer, wine, and spirits, a new study suggests.
> 
> ...





https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/10/27/recreational-weed-could-be-a-226b-industry-study.html​


----------



## DB008 (20 March 2017)

*Former top cops want 'white market' in illicit drugs, decriminalisation, more injecting rooms*​
A new report into drug-related deaths has proposed the decriminalisation of drug use in Australia.

The Australia21 report has the backing of former police commissioners and assistant commissioners, two former heads of Corrective Services, a former Supreme Court Judge and a former Director of Public Prosecutions.

It is the group's third report in five years on the issue.

The report says despite more than 80,000 arrests in Australia each year, there has been a continued rise in diseases, injuries, crimes and social costs.

The report's recommendations include:

Decriminalising drug use and consideration of eliminating all penalties
More "Drug consumptions rooms" — Australia has only one medically supervised centre in Kings Cross
Consideration of a regulated "white market" for drugs in a bid to counter "the black market"
Improving health and social services to drug users, particularly in rural areas
More funding for harm minimisation strategies
Former federal police commissioner Mick Palmer told ABC News Breakfast his attitude had changed a lot since he was a young policeman in the 1960s.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...e-market-in-illicit-drugs/8369102?pfmredir=sm​


----------



## McLovin (14 July 2017)

McLovin said:


> What do you call giving someone a month's free supply of a powerful, highly addictive, dangerous drug? If someone is at the point of truly needing fentanyl they require it with or without the free supply. And then how do you know the drug has been legitimately medically prescribed, as opposed to just finding a doctor who will prescribe it after the patient saw the ad and the lure of free supply and shopped around?




Now the Fed is saying that opioids are having an affect on the workforce...Geez who would have thought doling out free samples of a drug so powerful that you need to already have built up a resistance to morphine might have adverse consequences.



> Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen, making her most expansive remarks on an opioid epidemic that’s ravaging American communities, indicated the problem is so pervasive it is holding back the nation’s labor market.
> 
> “I do think it is related to declining labor force participation among prime-age workers,” Yellen said of the opioid epidemic while answering questions during testimony before the Senate Banking Committee on Thursday. “I don’t know if it’s causal or if it’s a symptom of long-running economic maladies that have affected these communities and particularly affected workers who have seen their job opportunities decline.”
> 
> ...




And a few graphs. I think we can thank our lucky stars prescription drugs cannot be advertised in Australia.












It's pretty sad that a whole generation of middle aged people are being left behind.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (31 July 2017)

LSD, legally and without the side effects.  

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/you-can-alter-your-mind-staring-someones-eyes-10-minutes/


----------



## DB008 (1 September 2017)

*Ecstasy Was Just Labelled a 'Breakthrough Therapy'*
*For PTSD by The FDA*​

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined that 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), also known as ecstasy, is a 'breakthrough therapy' in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Thanks to this designation, the drug could have a faster path to pharmaceutical approval.

The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) announced the FDA's ruling last week, revealing that they can now move forward on two of their upcoming 'Phase 3' trials.

The goal of these trials is to determine how effectively the drug can be used to treat those suffering from PTSD. The trials will include 200 to 300 participants, and the first trial will begin to accept subjects in 2018.

"For the first time ever, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy will be evaluated in Phase 3 trials for possible prescription use, with MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD leading the way," said Rick Doblin, Founder and Executive Director of MAPS.

The trials will be held in the U.S., Canada, and Israel, and MAPS plans to open talks with the European Medicines Agency in the hopes of expanding testing to include Europe. For now, the focus is on securing the funding they require.

According to _Science_, the organisation is still in the process of raising money for the trials, and thus far, they've only managed to secure US$13 million, about half of their goal.

Since 1986, MAPS has been conducting MDMA trials in the hopes of proving the drug's therapeutic value. Following the 2011 release of a small study in the US, the drug has gained traction as a potential treatment for PTSD.

Since then, scientists have been pushing for additional testing, but ecstasy's stigma as a harmful street drug has hindered progress. The FDA's new designation could change that.

"This is not a big scientific step," David Nutt, a neuropsychopharmacologist at Imperial College London, explained to _Science_. "It's been obvious for 40 years that these drugs are medicines. But it's a huge step in acceptance."

Previous MAPS trials exploring how well MDMA could treat PTSD have yielded favourable results, contributing to the FDA's aforementioned decision. In the association's Phase 2 trails, 107 people who had PTSD for an average of 17.8 years were treated using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

After two months, 61 percent of the participants no longer suffered from PTSD. After a year, that number increased to 68 percent, according to the MAPS press release.

PTSD only needs a small trigger like a sound, smell, or an object to bring a traumatic memory rushing back. Nearly 8 million adults experience PTSD per year, and children can suffer from it as well.

Should MDMA prove to be an effective and safe treatment, it could help millions of people live normal, healthy lives without fear of the next debilitating PTSD episode.



http://www.sciencealert.com/ecstasy-was-just-labelled-a-breakthrough-therapy-for-ptsd-by-the-fda​


----------



## DB008 (14 October 2017)

*Magic mushrooms 'reboot' brain in depressed people – study*​
Magic mushrooms may effectively “reset” the activity of key brain circuits known to play a role in depression, the latest study to highlight the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics suggests.

Psychedelics have shown promising results in the treatment of depression and addictions in a number of clinical trials over the last decade. Imperial College London researchers used psilocybin – the psychoactive compound that occurs naturally in magic mushrooms – to treat a small number of patients with depression, monitoring their brain function, before and after.

Images of patients’ brains revealed changes in brain activity that were associated with marked and lasting reductions in depressive symptoms and participants in the trial reported benefits lasting up to five weeks after treatment.

Dr Robin Carhart-Harris, head of psychedelic research at Imperial, who led the study, said: “We have shown for the first time clear changes in brain activity in depressed people treated with psilocybin after failing to respond to conventional treatments.

“Several of our patients described feeling ‘reset’ after the treatment and often used computer analogies. For example, one said he felt like his brain had been ‘defragged’ like a computer hard drive, and another said he felt ‘rebooted’.

“Psilocybin may be giving these individuals the temporary ‘kick start’ they need to break out of their depressive states and these imaging results do tentatively support a ‘reset’ analogy. Similar brain effects to these have been seen with electroconvulsive therapy.”

For the study, published in Scientific Reports on Friday, 20 patients with treatment-resistant depression were given two doses of psilocybin (10 mg and 25 mg), with the second dose a week after the first. Of these, 19 underwent initial brain imaging and then a second scan one day after the high dose treatment. The team used two main brain imaging methods to measure changes in blood flow and the crosstalk between brain regions, with patients reporting their depressive symptoms through completing clinical questionnaires.

Immediately following treatment with psilocybin, patients reported a decrease in depressive symptoms, such as improvements in mood and stress relief.

MRI imaging revealed reduced blood flow in areas of the brain, including the amygdala, a small, almond-shaped region of the brain known to be involved in processing emotional responses, stress and fear.

The authors believe the findings provide a new window into what happens in the brains of people after they have ‘come down’ from a psychedelic, with an initial disintegration of brain networks during the drug ‘trip’ followed by a re-integration afterwards.

Last year, two US studies showed that a single dose of psilocybin could lift the anxiety and depression experienced by people with advanced cancer for six months or even longer.

The Imperial College researchers acknowledge that the significance of their results is limited by the small sample size and the absence of a control/placebo group for comparison. They also stress that it would be dangerous for patients with depression to attempt to self-medicate.


https://www.theguardian.com/science...hrooms-reboot-brain-in-depressed-people-study​


----------



## Tisme (24 October 2017)

Drugs is good:


----------



## DB008 (4 November 2017)

*Here’s how to solve the NHS’s chronic underfunding:
legalise cannabis*​

If there existed a lucrative industry, with proven success, that helps people get better and could save money for the NHS, shouldn’t we be talking about it?

After attending a cannabis conference in Denver, Colorado, it struck me that here was a real solution to some of the difficulties our health services is facing. Cannabis has been medically legal in Colorado since 2000, and recreationally legal since 2012. While there, I realised I had my own dated idea of what “recreational” use actually entailed and was swiftly enlightened. Athletes apply cannabis infused balms for muscle soreness, arthritic pets are treated with cannabis biscuits and mothers take “edibles” (cannabis infused treats) to relax, swapping the wine bottle for weed wine gums. The line between medicinal and recreational use is very hazy anyway. Is your evening glass of Malbec or that pint in the pub for recreational or medicinal purposes? In my case, both.

Colorado was voted one of the happiest places to live in the US and not because they are all stoned. The state government collected almost $200m in cannabis taxes in 2016. There they argue about what to do with all the cash, as opposed to how to salami-slice ever-decreasing budgets, as is the norm in Westminster. Colorado set up the Marijuana Cash Tax Fund which finances education and health programmes. There are now more health care professionals in schools, providing education, as well as care, for those suffering from substance abuse or in need of mental health services.

The estimated value of the UK cannabis industry is £7bn per year, according to a report released last year. Colorado’s model could be effectively replicated in the UK, but on a much bigger scale, with tax money received from the sale of cannabis products diverted to the NHS.

Each year, our health service comes under greater strain from rising costs, staff shortages and increased patient demand. A report released by the Nuffield Trust, the independent health charity, estimated an overspend of £4bn between 2016-2017, which is significantly higher than the official figures released by the NHS. Legalising cannabis would be a great way to start plugging this gap.

In addition to generating a lot of cash, cannabis can help reduce costs within the NHS. Last year in the UK, a record number of anti-depressants were prescribed, costing the NHS about £260m. After Colorado legalised cannabis, there was a fall in prescriptions aimed at treating anxiety and depression.

These benefits are compelling, but a serious collaborative effort between policymakers and healthcare professionals is required to ensure that the tax policy is effective and the regulation stringent. Just like alcohol and tobacco, cannabis use can have serious health implications. Responsible cannabis businesspeople in Colorado sometimes say they are “in the compliance business first and the cannabis business second”. Products can’t use the word “candy” on their packaging.

But ultimately, this is a conversation about choice – particularly when it comes to healthcare. After my sister was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2011 and my father with Parkinson’s disease in 2007, their only option was prescription pharmaceutical treatment. Pursuing cannabis as a therapeutic alternative would have made them criminals in the eyes of the law, with possession punishable by an unlimited fine and a five-year prison sentence. Although that is something I would be prepared to risk if I were in chronic pain, many would not, members of my family included.

Criminalising cannabis deprives patients twice over – first of tax revenue that could be used to fund their care, and second, of the ability to explore the drug as a potential aid to their treatment or recovery. The UK has a chance to improve not only the financial wellbeing of the NHS but most importantly, the wellbeing of the people. My time in Colorado has taught me that public perception needs to shift – from cannabis as a criminal “wrong”, to a healthcare right.


https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...-legalise-cannabis-tax-medicinal-aid-patients​


----------



## DB008 (8 June 2018)

Wow.

Canada


*Canada Legalizes Marijuana For Those 18 And Older*​

Both the Senate and House of Commons have given passage to C-45 to legalize marijuana. It will now only need to go back to the House for one final vote to approve amendments and through the formality of Royal Assent before it can become official law.

Once it does, marijuana use, possession and private growing will be allowed. The age limit will be 18, three years younger than the limit set in the nine U.S. states where marijuana is legal. Marijuana will be sold through marijuana stores, and through online orders.

Once law, Canada will join Uruguay as the only countries to have legal marijuana, though other nations do have laws that allow users to avoid jail time.

The legalization of marijuana was one of the main campaign platforms for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who was elected in 2015. Trudeau promised to have marijuana legalized by July of this year.

https://themarijuanaherald.com/news/canada-legalizes-marijuana-for-those-18-and-older/


----------



## Gringotts Bank (8 June 2018)

DB008 said:


> Wow.
> 
> Canada
> 
> ...




I don't think that can work out too well.  If people used it occasionally, no problem, but that's unlikely to happen.  Stress levels are skyrocketing in the US and that means people will use it to self medicate.  

Trudeau.... meh.


----------



## DB008 (11 June 2018)




----------



## DB008 (19 June 2018)

*The war on cannabis has been lost, the Government should be bold and legalise it, Lord Hague tells Prime Minister*​

The war against cannabis has been "comprehensively and irreversibly lost", former Conservative leader William Hague has said, as he urges Theresa May to legalise the drug.

Writing in the  Telegraph Lord Hague says Mrs May should be "bold" and introduce a "major change" in policy, warning it is "deluded" to think cannabis can be "driven off the streets".

His intervention comes as the Prime Minister faces a growing Cabinet row over whether to allow medicinal use of the drug following pleas from the mother of 12 year-old Billy Caldwell. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...t-government-should-bold-legalise-lord-hague/​


----------



## DB008 (30 August 2018)

*Nevada collects $69.8M in marijuana tax,*
*exceeding expectations*​
LAS VEGAS - Nevada far exceeded its marijuana tax revenue during its first year of adult-use sales.

The tax collections totaled $69.8 million for the first fiscal year, about 140 percent of what the state expected, according to a news release from the Nevada Department of Taxation.

The most lucrative months were the final four with each month's totals topping $6.5 million.

The Department of Taxation transferred $27.5 million to the State Distributive School Account to pay for education.


https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/lo..._medium=social&utm_source=facebook_8_News_Now​


----------



## DB008 (30 August 2018)

awg said:


> So what about Cannabis and driving?
> 
> It would seem that the current tests used by police may detect cannabis ~24 - 48hrs after consumption
> 
> ...





*Colorado Department of Transport*

*FAQs: Cannabis and Driving*​
*Q: Is there a legal limit for marijuana impairment while operating a vehicle?*

A: Colorado law specifies that drivers with five nanograms of active tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in their whole blood can be prosecuted for driving under the influence (DUI). However, no matter the level of THC, law enforcement officers base arrests on observed impairment.


*Q: What if I use marijuana medicinally?*

A: If a substance has impaired your ability to operate a motor vehicle it is illegal for you to be driving, even if that substance is prescribed or legally acquired.


https://www.codot.gov/safety/alcohol-and-impaired-driving/druggeddriving/marijuana-and-driving​


----------



## sptrawler (30 August 2018)

DB008 said:


> *Nevada collects $69.8M in marijuana tax,*
> *exceeding expectations*​
> LAS VEGAS - Nevada far exceeded its marijuana tax revenue during its first year of adult-use sales.
> 
> ...



Now they just have to move on to Meth's then they can really kill the pig, they can be made in the boot of a car, everyone is using them. 
Why don't the Government legalise them and get tax on them, it sounds like the Marijuana arguement.


----------



## Tisme (31 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Now they just have to move on to Meth's then they can really kill the pig, they can be made in the boot of a car, everyone is using them.
> Why don't the Government legalise them and get tax on them, it sounds like the Marijuana arguement.





Absolutely, get everyone on meth and watch the wastelines plummet and dentist businesses flourish.


----------



## DB008 (31 August 2018)

*
Marijuana Should Be Added to Nafta, Mexico’s Fox Says*
​Cannabis should be added to the North American Free Trade Agreement just like any other form of produce, says former Mexican President Vicente Fox.

Fox, who sits on the board of Vancouver-based medical marijuana producer Khiron Life Sciences Corp., said he expects Mexico’s new government to legalize recreational cannabis in 2019. The country legalized medical pot in 2017.

Fox has long advocated for legal cannabis, arguing that it will help defeat the cartel violence that has plagued Mexico for years.

“We can change criminals for businessmen, we can change underground, illegal non-taxpayers into an industry, a sector of the economy,” he said Thursday in an interview in Toronto, where he met with Khiron’s board. “I think it should be part of Nafta and that’s what I’m pursuing.”

If that happens, Mexico could become a major exporter of legal cannabis to the U.S. and Canadian markets, Fox said.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...witter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=business​


----------



## DB008 (16 September 2018)

*Defqon.1: NSW Premier vows to shut down festival after suspected overdose deaths*​The New South Wales Premier has vowed to do everything she can to shut down Defqon.1, after two people died in suspected overdoses at the popular Sydney music festival last night.

Police said a 23-year-old man from western Sydney and a 21-year-old woman from Victoria died in Nepean Hospital after collapsing at music festival in Penrith about 9:00pm.

Three more festival goers remain in a critical condition in hospital.

Ms Berejiklian described the deaths as "absolutely tragic" and vowed to ban the event.

"I never want to see this event held in Sydney or New South Wales ever again — we will do everything we can to shut this down," she said.

Ms Berejuklian denied cancelling the event would force it and others to go underground, and said pill-testing at music events was "not a solution".

"Anyone who advocates pill-testing is giving the green light to drugs. There is no such thing as a safe drug and unfortunately when young people think there is, it has tragic consequences," she said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-16/defqon-two-dead-after-music-festival-overdoses/10252848​


Hmmm....

Lots of people still drink and drive....



*This mum says 'yes please' to pill testing at festivals*​​With two 'deadly' pills found during Australia’s first legal pill testing trial at Groovin The Moo festival in Canberra on the weekend, most parents agree that now is not the time to bury our heads in the sand.

Blogger, Constance Hall is all for the idea of pill testing at festivals, telling _Kidspot_; "I think it’s absolutely brilliant. It’s pretty obvious that we aren’t about to stop teenagers from taking drugs, so it makes perfect sense to make it safer. It’s not like we are buying the pills for them, just checking out their stash, making sure it’s not flagged as a dodgy batch."​
https://www.kidspot.com.au/parentin...s/news-story/902c34c145966df41ccbb1ef512689cd​


*Young Australians Want Pill Testing At Music Fests And Would Heed The Results*​​Even though a survey indicated 90 percent would use the service, the testing hasn't been allowed.

The push to legalize drug checking at music festivals in Australia is gathering momentum, with a new study reporting nearly 90 percent of participants said they would use such a service, if it were available, before taking illicit drugs.

Drug checking at music festivals has long been called for by public health advocates and drug reform campaigners. The summer music festival and party season in Australia often sadly sees many drug overdoses and deaths, with many of these reactions ascribed to people ingesting a substance that was sold as something else, or because the drug was laced with more toxic ingredients, such as detergent or rat poison.

During the 2016-2017 festival season, 21 people were hospitalized after bad reactions to drugs taken at a festival. One man died at a Queensland festivalover New Year’s Eve, two men died on a party bus to a festival in Sydney, and three people died and 20 were hospitalized after a bad batch of ecstasy was sold on Melbourne’s Chapel Street.

Drug checking, also known as pill testing, has been in place at parties and music festivals throughout Europe for years. It has shown success in preventing deaths and injuries in the Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and other countries. With the service, someone who wants to take a drug can come to a booth where the pill or powder can be checked scientifically to produce a detailed analysis of its ingredients. Festival-goers can then make an informed decision about what they put in their body.

Despite vigorous efforts from campaigners, health experts and the federal Greens party, pill testing is still not permitted in Australia. Recent studies at Australian universities have indicated that young people want the services to be available and would heed warnings.

The push to legalize drug checking at music festivals in Australia is gathering momentum, with a new study reporting nearly 90 percent of participants said they would use such a service, if it were available, before taking illicit drugs.

Drug checking at music festivals has long been called for by public health advocates and drug reform campaigners. The summer music festival and party season in Australia often sadly sees many drug overdoses and deaths, with many of these reactions ascribed to people ingesting a substance that was sold as something else, or because the drug was laced with more toxic ingredients, such as detergent or rat poison.

During the 2016-2017 festival season, 21 people were hospitalized after bad reactions to drugs taken at a festival. One man died at a Queensland festivalover New Year’s Eve, two men died on a party bus to a festival in Sydney, and three people died and 20 were hospitalized after a bad batch of ecstasy was sold on Melbourne’s Chapel Street.

Drug checking, also known as pill testing, has been in place at parties and music festivals throughout Europe for years. It has shown success in preventing deaths and injuries in the Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and other countries. With the service, someone who wants to take a drug can come to a booth where the pill or powder can be checked scientifically to produce a detailed analysis of its ingredients. Festival-goers can then make an informed decision about what they put in their body.

Despite vigorous efforts from campaigners, health experts and the federal Greens party, pill testing is still not permitted in Australia. Recent studies at Australian universities have indicated that young people want the services to be available and would heed warnings.​
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/e...g-music-festivals_us_5a602d8ee4b046f0811ce94a​


*Pill-testing success in ACT proves it should go national, organisers say*
​Trial at music festival found many of those tested didn’t know what drug they were taking

The pill-testing trial at a music festival in the Australian Capital Territory was an “overwhelming success” and the federal government should help roll out a scheme nationwide, the organisers have said.

In a report on the trial at the Groovin’ the Moo festival in April, released on Wednesday, the Sta-safe consortium said the government should support a “mixed-model” with pill-testing offered permanently at drug, alcohol and syringe services – not just at festivals and special events.

Although at least one federal minister has already scotched suggestions of a national scheme, the ACT’s justice and mental health minister, Shane Rattenbury, agreed the trial was a “success on the day” and offered support to other events and jurisdictions to follow suit.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...t-proves-it-should-go-national-organisers-say​


*EZ Test*​Pill testing kit website - if you do drugs and what not, please at least use a test kit.

Here at EZ Test Australia we are all about harm reduction. We realise that unregulated recreational drugs need to be tested to know that what you’ve bought is what you think it is. The reality is that you are going to take it anyway so you may as well test it.

EZ Test also has a range of tests that can test the Purity of a substance like MDMA and Cocaine. We also have packs that can do a more thorough test on a substance – check out our ‘Ultimate Ecstasy Pack’ and our ‘Ultimate Coke Pack’​
https://ez-test.com.au/​


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## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

DB008 said:


> *Defqon.1: NSW Premier vows to shut down festival after suspected overdose deaths*​The New South Wales Premier has vowed to do everything she can to shut down Defqon.1, after two people died in suspected overdoses at the popular Sydney music festival last night.
> 
> Police said a 23-year-old man from western Sydney and a 21-year-old woman from Victoria died in Nepean Hospital after collapsing at music festival in Penrith about 9:00pm.
> 
> ...




Yes Danny, I thought the same, weird reaction but the public love a big headline these days.

Shame no one can think for themselves anymore, and make their own decissions, and accept the consequences.
Not these days, we will not have music in a gathering, because some people chose to take drugs that are not branded, therefore the answer is not to go to a music festival.
These people are actually making laws, it is really hard to believe IMO, there should be an IQ test for politicians.


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## DB008 (16 September 2018)

sp - your right on the money as usual


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## Tisme (17 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Yes Danny, I thought the same, weird reaction but the public love a big headline these days.
> 
> Shame no one can think for themselves anymore, and make their own decissions, and accept the consequences.
> Not these days, we will not have music in a gathering, because some people chose to take drugs that are not branded, therefore the answer is not to go to a music festival.
> These people are actually making laws, it is really hard to believe IMO, there should be an IQ test for politicians.




That's the democracy we expect these daze. 

I was surprised the event hadn't been shutdown because of the lack of drugs use; considering most of the social justice/engineering and govt policy seems to be a best fit for the haze of drug dependency ... otherwise bizarre to those of us who still have an undamaged brain. Dude where's my car!


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## Darc Knight (17 September 2018)

Haven't read all of DB008's post but the culture of these Music Fests is to juice up on Steroids so you're buff and muscular ( like I assume Tisme is) and to then take a handful of drugs at the Festival itself. Pretty sure that's why the Stereosonic Music Festival closed down.


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## Tisme (17 September 2018)

Heh DK you can relate to this: soo funny .... to stoners and children.


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## Darc Knight (17 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Heh DK you can relate to this: soo funny .... to stoners and children.





Savage! I thought we were friends Tis! :Sadman icon:


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## Tisme (17 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Savage! I thought we were friends Tis! :Sadman icon:




Besties and cobbers...if you can't insult a friend who can you insult?


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## SirRumpole (17 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> That's the democracy we expect these daze.
> 
> I was surprised the event hadn't been shutdown because of the lack of drugs use; considering most of the social justice/engineering and govt policy seems to be a best fit for the haze of drug dependency ... otherwise bizarre to those of us who still have an undamaged brain. Dude where's my car!




It would be an ideal place for plain clothed coppers to wander around and find out what's going on, taking photos of dealers with hidden cameras then picking them up later on.


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## fiftyeight (17 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> It would be an ideal place for plain clothed coppers to wander around and find out what's going on, taking photos of dealers with hidden cameras then picking them up later on.




Yeah plenty of Mr Bigs at festivals


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## Smurf1976 (17 September 2018)

I’ve been to plenty of music festivals and concerts in the past, albeit none involving dance music since that’s definitely not my thing, and never once did I do drugs. For that matter, I’ve never used illegal drugs anywhere else either.

So I’m on the conservative side in terms of what I do but I’m strongly in favour of adopting approaches that at least reduce the harm being caused. 

Prohibition doesn’t work - never has and never will. If pill testing has a chance of working then let’s at least give it a go.

As usual it seems our politicians are dragging their feet. Climate change, gay marriage and now drugs - this is becoming a pattern it seems and it’s not helping.


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## Tisme (17 September 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> ........
> 
> As usual it seems our politicians are dragging their feet. Climate change, gay marriage and now drugs - this is becoming a pattern it seems and it’s not helping.




At one time not so long ago they had nut farms for those with mental disease, even severe melancholy got a guernsey = not a good soln., but back then society wasn't saddled with the guilt it feels compelled to shoulder now we are in the post 2000 age of enlightenment. 

The democratic establishment seems ill equipped to handle the massive change in social stratification. Things can't be right when the millenials aren't phased at the prospect of brutal Russian and Chinese authority regimes' infiltration into our societies to exploit the weaknesses of our new dandyboy culture.


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## fiftyeight (17 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> At one time not so long ago they had nut farms for those with mental disease, even severe melancholy got a guernsey = not a good soln., but back then society wasn't saddled with the guilt it feels compelled to shoulder now we are in the post 2000 age of enlightenment.
> 
> The democratic establishment seems ill equipped to handle the massive change in social stratification. Things can't be right when the millenials aren't phased at the prospect of brutal Russian and Chinese authority regimes' infiltration into our societies to exploit the weaknesses of our new dandyboy culture.




Tisme, if Australia loosen the laws around drugs, all the weak dandyboys will do HEAPS of drugs and natural selection will cull the herd or they will be so cooked you can use them as cannon fodder with a war against Russia or China. Win Win!!!


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## McLovin (17 September 2018)

DB008 said:


> *Defqon.1: NSW Premier vows to shut down festival after suspected overdose deaths*​The New South Wales Premier has vowed to do everything she can to shut down Defqon.1, after two people died in suspected overdoses at the popular Sydney music festival last night.
> 
> Police said a 23-year-old man from western Sydney and a 21-year-old woman from Victoria died in Nepean Hospital after collapsing at music festival in Penrith about 9:00pm.
> 
> ...




God, Gladys is hopeless. All this wasted money on fighting drugs. Cocaine is the same price it was 20 years ago, and pingers are even cheaper than they used to be. Shutting down yet more of Sydney's nightlife won't change anything. People in Sydney treat having a line or pill like having a beer.


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## fiftyeight (23 September 2018)

https://www.news.com.au/news/nation...l/news-story/9a5b5978c9c34b2f2073f1bd3053722e

OMG, shut down this festival as well!!!!


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## DB008 (30 September 2018)

*Vancouver officers free to smoke pot, so long as they arrive ‘fit for duty,’ police board says*​VANCOUVER—With just weeks to go before legalization, the Vancouver Police Board approved on Wednesday a set of regulations for officers’ use of cannabis.

As per recommendations laid out in an August report by the Vancouver Police Department, the board rejected a 24-hour pre-shift period of abstinence in favour of a standard that simply states officers must arrive to work “fit for duty.”

Implementing a 24-hour abstinence period is less than ideal, the August report states, because cannabis affects different individuals to varying degrees, and there is no medical consensus on how long cannabinoids like THC — the main psychoactive ingredient in cannabis — take to clear the system.

“Specifying a time frame can create an implicit approval that this period of abstinence is all that’s required to ensure fitness for duty,” the report says. “This can lead to unnecessary labour conflicts where employees are fit for duty but have consumed cannabis within this time frame, or where employees are not fit for duty but mistakenly believe they are as they consumed outside this time frame.”

VPD officers will, however, be prohibited from consuming cannabis “prior to the start their shift,” as is the case with alcohol. They will be allowed to possess controlled drugs while working or on break, so long as the substance is stored for the purposes of transportation in its original, sealed and unopened package.

https://www.thestar.com/news/cannab...fit-for-duty-vancouver-police-board-says.html​


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## Tisme (30 September 2018)

DB008 said:


> *Vancouver officers free to smoke pot, so long as they arrive ‘fit for duty,’ police board says*​VANCOUVER—With just weeks to go before legalization, the Vancouver Police Board approved on Wednesday a set of regulations for officers’ use of cannabis.
> 
> As per recommendations laid out in an August report by the Vancouver Police Department, the board rejected a 24-hour pre-shift period of abstinence in favour of a standard that simply states officers must arrive to work “fit for duty.”
> 
> ...




Vancouver has nothing on Toronto ... a city in a constant welfare state of drug addled half wits wasting their lives finagling, getting high, disconnected from individual  civic responsibility, etc while the Asian migrants industriously work hard to build their wealth opportunity in the absence of competition. I seem to recall an article that stated the wealth divide because of the drug coma indolence is staggering 600,000 ratio between the wealthy elite and the poor, one in four kids live in abject poverty and the city is boroughed along racial lines at over 50%.

Instead of conducting social experiments perhaps Canada should go back to core principles and reestablish national codes of conduct that once put it above the USA, not on par.


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## bellenuit (30 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Vancouver has nothing on Toronto ... a city in a constant welfare state of drug addled half wits .....




Tisme, which city are you describing, Vancouver or Toronto?

I was surprised when I was in Vancouver last year by the number of druggies on the street


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## Humid (30 September 2018)

bellenuit said:


> Tisme, which city are you describing, Vancouver or Toronto?
> 
> I was surprised when I was in Vancouver last year by the number of druggies on the street



He obviously hasn’t been to Van City lately


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## Tisme (1 October 2018)

bellenuit said:


> Tisme, which city are you describing, Vancouver or Toronto?
> 
> I was surprised when I was in Vancouver last year by the number of druggies on the street




Toronto is a much bigger city, but yes I think Canada in general is fast becoming a victim of its own stupidity. When you see numerous 40+ yearolds with baggies and reverse caps riding down the street on skateboards the question tends to be about arrested development with mental pictures of Dude Where's My Car.


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## sptrawler (9 October 2018)

A few interesting facts on drug use in Australia.

https://thewest.com.au/news/crime/wa-towns-top-nation-for-methamphetamine-use-ng-b88984291z


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## DB008 (20 October 2018)

Canada legalised marijuana yesterday. 

Sales tax collected, Australia is so behind.... 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4571750/weed-sales-day-one/​


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## DB008 (21 October 2018)

*Canada is running out of marijuana two days*
*after drug became legal*​
Canadians were so excited about getting their hands on some legal, recreational marijuana the country is reportedly experience a shortage.

Police were called to help shops struggling to handle long queues and with frustrated people unable to buy cannabis.

Bill Blair, a former Toronto police chief who has led the government's legalisation programme, told public broadcaster CBC the country was unable to supply enough to meet demand.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-weed-shortage-pot-running-out-a8593861.html​


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## DB008 (21 October 2018)

*Canada has legalised cannabis.*
*This is why Australia should follow suit*​Whether it's next year or a decade from now, the question concerning cannabis legalisation is no longer if, but when.

History has taught me that our drug laws — good or bad — take time to untangle once we realise they don't work. And when it comes to drugs, our realisations come about a 100 years too late.

These late realisations come with significant costs for our safety and wellbeing. Our community has suffered from undue poverty, criminality and negative health outcomes.

We're late learners when it comes to drug laws.

Therefore, the salient question for me is neither if nor when, but how. How will we manage the legalisation of cannabis?







*Canadian economy will profit from cannabis*​
This is where Canada has taken a strategic step — they have banned advertising, enforced plain packaging, regulated how the ingredients are displayed and limited how many shops can sell it in the first year.

You need to be 19 to purchase it in all provinces except two, where you must be 18.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tweeted: "Profits out of the hands of criminals. Protection for our kids. Today #cannabis is legalized and regulated across Canada."

Canada will certainly benefit from the profits moving from the underbelly into the pockets of their economy. And that is common sense regulation of a black market but let's be clear — we will never destroy a black market entirely.

Today, Australia is home to a tobacco black market. However it's tiny. And a tiny tobacco black market is something far easier to police than an the impossible mission of shutting down every backyard ice lab.

This is about being pragmatic and our kid's health and safety should remain paramount.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-21/canada-legalised-cannabis-pot/10395056?pfmredir=sm​


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## noirua (21 October 2018)

*Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?*
If governments are clever they can levy high taxes on certain drugs by legalising them.


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## DB008 (26 October 2018)

*Psychedelic psilocybin therapy for depression granted Breakthrough Therapy status by FDA*​In an extraordinary step forward for the psychedelic drug research community, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has just given psilocybin therapy for treatment-resistant depression a Breakthrough Therapy designation. This classification suggests the treatment has demonstrated significant potential in early clinical evidence, allowing the FDA to assist and expedite subsequent development and review processes.

The FDA's Breakthrough Therapy designation was created in 2012 as a way of presenting a faster pathway to approval for drugs that display treatment advantages over current options for serious or life-threatening conditions. While not all Breakthrough Therapy treatments may ultimately prove efficacious and make it to market, the designation is generally a positive thumbs-up from the FDA that it's potentially useful and should be expedited.

The specific designation in this instance is directed at a phase IIb trial currently underway across Europe and North America. The research is investigating the optimal dose range for psilocybin in regards to severe treatment-resistant depression. Prior research has found that one to two doses of the psychedelic agent, administered in controlled settings, can markedly reduce a person's depressive symptoms. The safety of these treatments has also been established through earlier research.

The multi-center clinical trial now underway is being run by life sciences company COMPASS Pathways and expands on decades of work by researchers around the world who toiled to push this previously taboo drug into the light of legitimate medical research. Robin Carhart-Harris, head of the Psychedelic Research Group at Imperial College London, has been working for several years to establish the efficacy of psilocybin treatment for depression, and notes that this new FDA designation is a positive sign for the future of psychedelic drug therapy.


"The Breakthrough Therapy designation is a strong endorsement for the potential of psilocybin therapy," says Carhart-Harris. "We look forward to learning more as further clinical studies are carried out, by our team at Imperial College as well as in COMPASS's multi-center trial."​
https://newatlas.com/psilocybin-magic-mushrooms-depression-fda-breakthrough-therapy/56928/​


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## Gringotts Bank (27 October 2018)

DB008 said:


> *Psychedelic psilocybin therapy for depression granted Breakthrough Therapy status by FDA*​In an extraordinary step forward for the psychedelic drug research community, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has just given psilocybin therapy for treatment-resistant depression a Breakthrough Therapy designation. This classification suggests the treatment has demonstrated significant potential in early clinical evidence, allowing the FDA to assist and expedite subsequent development and review processes.
> 
> The FDA's Breakthrough Therapy designation was created in 2012 as a way of presenting a faster pathway to approval for drugs that display treatment advantages over current options for serious or life-threatening conditions. While not all Breakthrough Therapy treatments may ultimately prove efficacious and make it to market, the designation is generally a positive thumbs-up from the FDA that it's potentially useful and should be expedited.
> 
> ...




Big Pharma and the FDA have a *lot *of blood on their hands, and I guess they're starting to feel and see the results of their poor decisions from the past.  Fast-tracking psychedelic research can only be a good thing, regardless of the outcome.  I'm not sure it will be the answer based on what I've read at Erowid, but it's worth a shot.


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## DB008 (30 October 2018)

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine-assisted psychotherapy for treatment of chronic posttraumatic stress disorder: A randomized phase 2 controlled trial

*Abstract*​
*Background:*
Posttraumatic stress disorder often does not resolve after conventional psychotherapies or pharmacotherapies. Pilot studies have reported that 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) combined with psychotherapy reduces posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms.


*Aims:*
This pilot dose response trial assessed efficacy and safety of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy across multiple therapy teams.


*Methods:*
Twenty-eight people with chronic posttraumatic stress disorder were randomized in a double-blind dose response comparison of two active doses (100 and 125 mg) with a low dose (40 mg) of MDMA administered during eight-hour psychotherapy sessions. Change in the Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale total scores one month after two sessions of MDMA served as the primary outcome. Active dose groups had one additional open-label session; the low dose group crossed over for three open-label active dose sessions. A 12-month follow-up assessment occurred after the final MDMA session.


*Results:*
In the intent-to-treat set, the active groups had the largest reduction in Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale total scores at the primary endpoint, with mean (standard deviation) changes of −26.3 (29.5) for 125 mg, −24.4 (24.2) for 100 mg, and −11.5 (21.2) for 40 mg, though statistical significance was reached only in the per protocol set (_p_=0.03). Posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms remained lower than baseline at 12-month follow-up (_p_<0.001) with 76% (_n_=25) not meeting posttraumatic stress disorder criteria. There were no drug-related serious adverse events, and the treatment was well-tolerated.


*Conclusions:*
Our findings support previous investigations of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy as an innovative, efficacious treatment for posttraumatic stress disorder.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0269881118806297​


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## DB008 (23 November 2018)

As the marijuana industry grows, more states are reporting massive tax revenues that are being used to fund schools, drug treatment programs, and other vital services.

Legalizing marijuana nationwide would raise $7 billion in tax revenue per year. It’s a no brainer.

​


----------



## DB008 (30 November 2018)

Well, at least the Greens are doing something.



*The Greens introduce Australian Cannabis Agency Bill 2018*
*into Parliament*​
​


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## DB008 (10 December 2018)

USA...

Australia is so far behind. Muppets


*5 hot new careers created by marijuana legalization*​
By 2020 the $8.5 billion U.S. marijuana industry is expected to create 250,000 new jobs, according to New Frontier Data.
In 2017 the number of job posts for openings in the marijuana industry increased by 445 percent, outpacing tech (254 percent) and health care (70 percent), according to ZipRecruiter.
Fast-growing new careers driven by marijuana legalization include director of cultivation, budtender, dispensary manager, director of extraction and trimmer.

Six years ago recreational marijuana use was illegal in all 50 states — and had been for nearly a century. Following the 2018 midterm elections, anyone over 21 will soon be allowed to legally consume marijuana in 10 states plus the District of Columbia. Overall, 33 states in the past 22 years have passed some form of marijuana legalization, from medical to recreational use.

Despite the ever-present federal threat — the Drug Enforcement Administration still considers marijuana a banned substance, and former Attorney General Jeff Sessions threatened a crackdown — the $8.5 billion U.S. marijuana industry seems poised to grow as rapidly as the law will allow it. And it's generating jobs just as quickly.

By 2020 the industry is expected to create 250,000 new jobs, according to New Frontier Data, an industry research firm. In 2017 the number of job posts for openings in the marijuana industry increased by 445 percent, outpacing tech (254 percent) and health care (70 percent), according to ZipRecruiter.

The industry is in search of workers across the spectrum, from accounting to compliance, customer service, sales, technology and more. As the industry grows, so too do the opportunities. California, Colorado and Washington currently have the greatest demand for workers, but that could shift as legalization spreads.

Though the total number of marijuana jobs are still far smaller than those other, much older industries, they include several positions that didn't exist prior to legalization, offering enterprising workers the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of an entirely new career.

Because legalization has come state by state, there is no single association or governing body offering licenses, training or certifications. Workers looking to enter the industry will need to do a bit of research to find out their specific state requirements.

But newcomers don't necessarily need an encyclopedic nature of weed culture to succeed in the industry. In fact, Karson Humiston, CEO and founder of recruiting firm Vangst, said she decided to start her firm, which specializes in the cannabis industry, after discovering the breadth of talent required by entrepreneurs attending a 2015 industry convention.

"When I asked people what positions they were hiring for, it was everything from a botanist to a chemical engineer to a Ph.D. to a retail store manager to a marketing manager to a human resource manager to a CFO," she said. "You name it, and these companies were hiring for it."

Though some may hesitate to join an industry selling a drug that's still banned by federal law, everyday workers have little to fear, said Morgan Fox, media relations director for the National Cannabis Industry Association. "We haven't seen any U.S. attorneys make an effort to crack down on businesses that are compliant with state law, even though the former attorney general gave them carte blanche to do so," he said, referring to Sessions. "If someone is just an employee of a company, I would think there's pretty much no risk."

Here are five fast-growing new careers driven by marijuana legalization. Salary data is gleaned from the 2018 Vangst Salary Guide. In most cases the salary ranges are unusually broad due to the industry's youth and rapid expansion.​

More on link below...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/06/five-hot-new-careers-created-by-marijuana-legalization.html​


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## DB008 (12 December 2018)

New Zealand legalizes medical cannabis, regulated market within one year.

*Medicinal cannabis bill passes, with regulated market promised within a year and a legal defence until then*​
The Government has passed its medicinal cannabis bill, which will establish a regulated scheme within a year and give those close to death a legal defence before then.

After a long road to third reading the bill passed on Tuesday afternoon with the support of Labour, the Greens, and NZ First.

Both the Greens and NZ First won some concessions to the bill, which has been criticised by medicinal marijuana advocates for not going far enough - and by National as "decriminalisation by stealth".

The bill sets up a statutory defence which allows those close to death in palliative care to consume illicit marijuana with a legal defence if prosecuted.

This is intended as a bridging mechanism until the full Medicinal Cannabis Scheme is set up, which will make the process much more simple, likely by allowing pharmacies to sell regulated marijuana products.​
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/po...-within-a-year-and-a-legal-defence-until-then​


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## DB008 (15 December 2018)

Australia is following a corrupt system. Sheep. Blind leading the blind....


https://www.dea.gov/drug-scheduling

*Schedule I*

Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), *marijuana (cannabis)*, 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote

*Schedule II*

Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered dangerous. Some examples of Schedule II drugs are:

Combination products with less than 15 milligrams of hydrocodone per dosage unit (Vicodin), *cocaine*, *methamphetamine*, methadone, hydromorphone (Dilaudid), meperidine (Demerol), *oxycodone* (OxyContin), *fentanyl*, Dexedrine, Adderall, and Ritalin


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## DB008 (10 January 2019)

*Campaign to decriminalize psychedelic mushrooms in Denver says it has enough signatures to make the ballot*


*Denver for Psilocybin said it will turn in more than 8,000 ballot signatures following a rally outside of the Colorado Capitol on Monday afternoon.*​
The campaign to decriminalize psychedelic mushrooms in Denver said it has more than enough signatures to make the May municipal ballot and will turn them into the elections office following a rally outside the Capitol Monday afternoon.

Kevin Matthews, the campaign director for Denver for Psilocybin, said the group has gathered more than 8,000 signatures. The elections office has 25 days to verify they have collected the 4,729 valid signatures needed to make the May 2019 municipal ballot. 

“This is a chance for Denver and Colorado to be an example for the rest of the country,” Matthews said.

He said an important distinction for voters to make is the fact the measure would decriminalize magic mushrooms rather than legalize them. The language in the measure is based off a 2007 initiative to decriminalize marijuana possession in Denver – something that was a precursor to the 2012 legalization of recreational cannabis use and distribution -- and a first-of-its-kind in the country.

“We’re not talking about a regulatory framework, we’re not talking about a recreational framework at all,” Matthews said.

The Denver for Psilocybin campaign touts what it said are the medical benefits of magic mushrooms, and has cited studies saying the drug has been known to help people experiencing a decline in mental health.

Matthews, a father of a 4-year-old, said he personally has benefited from the drug to help with depression.​
https://www.9news.com/article/money...allot/73-1984ed05-2351-4426-948c-11e163637bff​


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## Lantern (11 January 2019)

I must admit that I find it very strange that the most dangerous thing about Cannabis is getting caught with some.


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## Humid (11 January 2019)

Even stranger is the stuff they banned is nowhere near as strong as what’s available today 
Worked well didn’t it


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## Lantern (11 January 2019)

^AH but do you know the reason it was banned? I'd wager you know only part of the story.
Do you know that it used to be illegal NOT to grow hemp. 
American greed overtook common sense. (what's new)

In 1619, America’s first marijuana law was enacted at Jamestown Colony, Virginia, “ordering” all farmers to “make tryal of “(grow) Indian hempseed. More mandatory (must-grow) hemp cultivation laws were enacted in Massachusetts in 1631, in Connecticut in 1632 and in the Chesapeake Colonies into the mid-1700s.

Even in England, the much-sought-after prize of full British citizenship was bestowed by a decree of the crown on foreigners who would grow cannabis, and fines were often levied against those who refused.

Cannabis hemp was legal tender (money) in most of the Americas from 1631 until the early 1800s. Why? To encourage American farmers to grow more.1

You could pay your taxes with cannabis hemp throughout America for over 200 years.2

You could even be jailed in America for not growing cannabis during several periods of shortage, e.g., in Virginia between 1763 and 1767.

(Herndon, G.M., Hemp in Colonial Virginia, 1963; The Chesapeake Colonies, 1954; L.A. Times, August 12, 1981; et al.)

Read all about it here. It's a great read.
https://jackherer.com/emperor-3/


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## DB008 (13 January 2019)

Hit nail on the head

‘If you legalised cannabis…not only would that take a hell of a lot of power, control and money away from criminals, it would free up a lot of time for police officers’ This police officer says the government should look at reforming drug policy to combat knife crime.​
​


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## DB008 (6 February 2019)

This was also on the radio today, l was driving home in peak hour traffic and was channel surfing and happen to catch a few minutes on 2GB (Brisbane). If l remember, l'll try to post the link tomorrow, it was very very interesting.

*Medicinal cannabis legalisation opens gateway*
*for psychedelic research*​Natural medicines are continuing their foray into commercial markets, with the next contender potentially being psilocybin mushrooms, colloquially known as “magic mushrooms” or “shrooms”.

Several organisations around the world are carrying out scientific research into the safety and efficacy of treating various mental conditions including depression, anxiety and phobias, with psilocybin mushrooms.

Results have been similar to other natural remedies such as cannabis – indicating there may be a case to be made for shrooms to be released from their extended government-imposed captivity into the commercial wilderness of world markets.

The emergence of cannabis as both a medicinal drug and a recreational pastime is taking the world by storm. Canada, the US and Australia are leading the field by easing existing prohibition and making the once-forgotten plant available for various types of consumers in recent months.

So, can magic mushrooms walk the same path towards alleviating a raft of illnesses while serving up a commercial opportunity for a new breed of pharmaceutical companies?

The answer, it seems, is yes.


*Psilocybin to the rescue*

The drive towards natural remedies could soon see yet another big hitter from the plant kingdom entering the commercial landscape: psilocybin-packed magic mushrooms.

Magic mushrooms contain a variety of psychedelic compounds, including psilocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin and boast a wide range of health benefits that scientists claim can be safely harnessed and sold to patients on a mass scale.

According to research published in 2013, based on over 20,000 users, researchers found that the use of psychedelics was not a risk factor for mental health problems.

Many other researchers studying all sorts of psychedelics have also discovered the same: natural plants and fungi are not inherently dangerous – they only pose risks when misunderstood and misused by naïve users.

Most recently, the psychedelic drug research community was given a huge official boost by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), after the US regulator approved psilocybin for what’s known as “breakthrough therapy designation” to life sciences company COMPASS Pathways, backed by PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel.

COMPASS (and one of its major stakeholders Atai Life Sciences) have already begun the first large-scale psilocybin therapy clinical trial in Europe and Northern America with results eagerly anticipated over the coming 12 months.

According to some estimates, there are at least 100 million people worldwide suffering from drug-resistant depression, with these numbers growing every year – potentially because synthetic opiates are hitting a dead-end in their effectiveness, especially over extended periods of use.

The FDA’s classification is therefore significant because for the first time in modern history, psilocybin is being seen as a genuine pathway towards treating ailments such as drug-resistant depression.

The FDA awards this classification for treatments that have demonstrated significant potential in early clinical evidence and thereby means the FDA is ready to assist and expedite subsequent development, including periodic reviews and further approvals based upon ongoing clinical evidence.​

More on link below...


https://smallcaps.com.au/medicinal-cannabis-legalisation-opens-gateway-psychedelic-research/​


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## Gringotts Bank (31 March 2019)

Big Pharma makes their enormous profits by getting people dependent on a lifetime usage of symptom-suppressing drugs.  Cheap, single-dose drugs which _promote cure_ don't fit with their model.  

Some of the Youtube comments are worth reading.


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## DB008 (4 April 2019)

*MDMA made older mice start socializing like adolescent mice,*
*finds a new study in Nature.*
​
*MDMA, the active ingredient of the drug ecstasy, might return **older brains to a more malleable state, and provides a potential basis as to why MDMA has helped treat post traumatic stress disorder.*​

You might think of young brains as soft clay that can take on new shapes in response to various inputs. But as time passes, the clay hardens and is less workable—and like clay, older brains can be less likely to change in response to new situations. Scientists doing research in mice have realized this analogy seems to work for learning social behaviors, and that MDMA, the active ingredient of the drug ecstasy, might return older brains to a more malleable state.

The earlier times of increased plasticity are called “critical periods,” and scientists have speculated that there might be a critical period for learning social behaviors—that during this period, social behavior feels extra good. This new research in mice presents quantitative evidence of such a critical period existing—and of MDMA re-opening that critical period in the brain. The research provides a potential basis as to why MDMA has helped treat post-traumatic stress disorder.


“Anyone who has studied critical periods ends their papers with ‘and for clinical reasons, it would be great if we could... understand how this works and to one day be able to open critical periods,’” Gül Dölen, an assistant professor in the Department of Neuroscience and Brain Science Institute at Johns Hopkins University, told Gizmodo. “We actually did both.”

There’s a well-known test on mice called conditioned place preference, where the mice are conditioned to associate locations with thing, and if they like the thing, they’ll have a preference for the place. After raising mice with other mice, the researchers moved individual mice into two new settings they’d never seen before: one where they were alone, and then a social setting with other mice. Then, the mice were left to choose between either setting.

The researchers tested the mice at 14 different ages, from just after weaning to mature adults. The preference for the social room peaked around adolescence, then declined until adulthood, when they didn’t show a preference for either room. This demonstrated the existence of some sort of critical period around adolescence where the mice found social behavior rewarding.

But then came the MDMA. The mice received small injections of the drug. Then, 48 hours later—well after the acute effects of MDMA had worn off—the adults showed a preference to be in the social room. It was as if the critical period had reopened, and the older mice once again desired social settings.​
https://gizmodo.com/mdma-made-older-mice-start-socializing-like-teenagers-1833775862?IR=T​


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## DB008 (15 April 2019)

*MP calls for Queenslanders to be allowed to*
*grow cannabis for personal use*
​Medicinal cannabis will be easier to access in Queensland with new laws passing Parliament but people should be able to grow their own, a Greens MP argues.

A bill passed on Wednesday night repeals laws from three years ago and means medical cannabis will be treated the same as other drugs of addiction (schedule 8 medicines) or prescription drugs (schedule 4).

Health Minister Steven Miles said the changes streamlined the prescription process by removing state-based approvals and would mean patients would have access to treatment sooner.

"If cannabis is a suitable way to treat a patient's condition or associated pain, then we believe they should have the same access to it as any other medication," he said.

"These changes mean medical cannabis will be treated exactly the same as other prescription medications."

But Greens MP Michael Berkman said the repeal of the old regime reflected the government's broad unwillingness to deal with cannabis in a way that minimised harm, rather than putting people at risk of criminalisation.

"The bill does not address the ongoing concerns of advocates about the cost of these medicines and the difficulty in accessing them," he said.

"The bill does nothing to assist those who face criminal sanctions because of steps they have taken to access these medicines."

Any medical practitioner will be able to prescribe schedule 4 medicinal cannabis products and any specialist medical practitioner, including specialist GPs, will be able to prescribe schedule 8 medicinal cannabis without approval from the state.

Non-specialist medical practitioners will still require a state-based approval for schedule 8 medicinal cannabis.

The federal government will maintain controls on the use of unapproved therapeutic goods through the Commonwealth licensing and approval system.

It will remain illegal for members of the public to grow their own cannabis.

"It was the Palaszczuk government that led Australia in 2015 by enabling doctors to prescribe medicinal cannabis to patients ... Now that the Commonwealth has caught up, we can streamline that process even further," Mr Miles said.

More on link below....

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/po...annabis-for-personal-use-20190404-p51apz.html​


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## DB008 (4 May 2019)

*'It makes me enjoy playing with the kids': is microdosing mushrooms going mainstream?*​
It’s a trend that first emerged in San Francisco less than a decade ago. Unlike the hippies who flocked to the city in the 60s, these new evangelists of psychedelic drugs were not seeking oblivion. Quite the opposite. While a “full” tripping dose of LSD is about 100 micrograms, online forums began to buzz with ambitious tech workers from Silicon Valley eulogising the effect of taking 10 to 20 micrograms every few days. Others used magic mushrooms. While both drugs are illegal in the US and the UK, increasing numbers claimed that tiny amounts were making them more focused, creative and productive.

Yet the scientific evidence remains shaky. The latest study, published in February in the open- access journal Plos One and led by cognitive scientist Vince Polito, tracked the experience of 98 microdosers who were already using psychedelics – a class of drugs including LSD and psilocybin (the active ingredient in magic mushrooms).

There is, the study noted, “a perception of microdosing as a general panacea that is able to improve virtually all aspects of an individual’s life”. All 98 participants expected its benefits to be “large and wide-ranging”. Yet while some clear changes were noted – decreased mind-wandering, for example – the study found no evidence of increased creativity or life satisfaction. In fact, after six weeks of microdosing, a small increase in neuroticism was noted.

The study’s participants did, however, report lower levels of stress and depression. It was this that drew Rosie to try it. “I’ve done the traditional treatments,” she tells me. “Therapy helped hugely – it got me out of a seriously bad place and to a functioning one. And for many years, I was functioning very well, outwardly. No one would have known. But inside, I was a mess.”

Antidepressants failed to work, so she stopped taking them after the birth of her second child, comforting herself with alcohol instead. “I wasn’t getting blind drunk and peeling myself off pavements,” she says. “But if I felt bad, my mind would immediately travel to the next drink I could have. It was the only thing that helped block out the sadness.”

That changed about a year ago, when friends began talking about microdosing. Rosie wondered whether it might have a positive effect on her mental health. She gave up booze, went online and found a company in Holland selling kits for growing your own magic mushrooms.

In the very early days, she got the dosage slightly wrong and found herself, “not tripping at all, but staring at a tree for slightly longer than passersby would find normal”. Otherwise, she says, the only down side is, “I can’t take it after 5pm or I can’t sleep.”

She is scrupulously careful to keep her mushrooms far out of the reach of her pre-teen children. “But it definitely doesn’t impair my ability to parent,” she says. “If anything, my awareness is sharpened.”

There is, however, one major danger in Rosie’s mind – its illegality. She has agreed to meet me on the proviso that I keep her identity a secret. “I have two kids. I’ve got responsibilities. And although I believe completely in what I’m doing, these are still class A drugs.” Growing kits are illegal to possess in the UK and she says: “The thought that the company now has my name and address in their records makes me nervous, as did the fact that they mailed the kit to me through the post.”

Once her kit arrived, there were more concerns. It came with strict instructions to wash her hands up to her elbows and keep her mushrooms as sterile as possible, to prevent bacteria growing. “Blue streaks appeared on their stems,” she says. “As a novice, that was really scary. I didn’t want to kill myself with contaminated mushrooms. I went on lots of forums to check, and it turned out it’s just a normal, safe form of bruising.

“It would be much safer if it was legal, so you could openly seek expert advice,” she concedes, but adds, “I’ve taken antidepressants with lists of side-effects as long as my arm. Now I’m taking something with no known side-effects and it’s working. In life, you make risk calculations every day. Is it safe to cross the road? Should I have one more glass of wine? This is just another of those. And I’m significantly happier as a consequence.”

Just how much of a risk is microdosing? Research in this area has a long and trippy history. Used to treat mood disorders, from anxiety to alcoholism in the 1950s and 60s, psychedelics including LSD and psilocybin became classified as illegal, class A drugs in Britain in 1971. Since the US had also criminalised them the year before, research into their clinical use ground to a halt, while horror stories about recreational overdoses and bad trips abounded.

Then, in 2011, came The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide. Written by American psychologist and researcher James Fadiman, it introduced the term microdosing into popular culture, setting out appropriate doses (10 micrograms of LSD every three days) and including glowing first-hand reports of improved productivity. He attracted evangelical followers in the US, and then across the world. Scientific research into the practice began, too.

“There’s only one genuine concern about microdosing,” says David Nutt, former chief drugs adviser to the government and author of Drugs: Without The Hot Air. “There’s a theoretical possibility that a relatively low dose of LSD, taken every day, could narrow the heart valves.” Beyond that, he says, there is no evidence that even “full” doses of LSD are dangerous to health (though clearly, the ill-advised actions of those under its effects can be). But users should not underestimate its illegality: “Possession carries a maximum penalty of seven years in prison,” he says.​

More on link below....

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-drugs-women-taking-tiny-doses-hattie-garlick​


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## DB008 (8 May 2019)

USA is miles in front....

Colorado sounds like the new Amsterdam (legal weed and shrooms). Could attract tourists. I might even pop over - haven't had magic mushrooms since l was in Amsterdam back in 2000.



*As legal marijuana booms, Denver votes on decriminalizing hallucinogenic mushrooms*
​
*Mile High City is first in nation to vote on psilocybin mushrooms, which would still be illegal but ‘de-prioritized’*​

If you thought legalized marijuana truly put the “high” in the Mile High City, wait until you hear what Denver is up to now. On Tuesday, residents will vote on whether to effectively decriminalize psilocybin mushrooms, the hallucinogen used by some cultures for religious purposes for centuries, and outlawed by the federal government since 1970.

The movement to “Decriminalize Denver” is the nation’s first public referendum on “magic mushrooms,” after an effort in California failed to reach the ballot last year. Initiative 301 would apply only to Denver, not the entire state of Colorado. It would place into city code the directive that enforcing laws for personal use or possession of psilocybin mushrooms “shall be the lowest law enforcement priority in the City and County of Denver,” though having the mushrooms would still technically be illegal. The mushrooms would not be available in the city’s cannabis dispensaries, and sales would still be classified as a felony. They would remain classified a Schedule I drug under federal law, as is marijuana, with “no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.”

The image of hallucinogens as chemicals that launch users into a swirling mélange of colors and voices, presumably impairing one’s ability to drive or operate heavy machinery, can be tough to overcome. But supporters say the mushrooms’ powerful mind-altering qualities can have long-term positive effects on addiction, depression, chronic pain, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder, in addition to the eight-hour journeys into the mystic.

Psilocybin is not addictive, does not lead to overdoses and is not thought to have long-term side effects, research has shown. It is a naturally occurring compound in some fungi. A number of studies have shown positive effects on people addicted to opioids, alcohol or tobacco, as well as diminished depression and anxiety. Researchers have found such benefits to mushrooms that the Food and Drug Administration has granted “breakthrough therapy” status to study psilocybin for treating depression. The FDA describes breakthrough therapy as designed to expedite development of a drug after preliminary evidence shows “the drug may demonstrate substantial improvement over available therapy.”

Kevin Matthews was a cadet at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point who was forced to retire due to major depression. He returned to Denver and struggled for years until he tried mushrooms for the first time.

“It was one of the most profound experiences of my life,” he said. “It cleared the fog and lasted for weeks and weeks after. It enabled me to see outside the box of my own depression.”​
https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...lucinogenic-mushrooms/?utm_term=.ea08811955bb​


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## DB008 (9 May 2019)

The vote is in



A final update from the Denver Election Division on Wednesday afternoon revealed that voters approved a measure to decriminalize psychedelic mushrooms, CBS Denver reported. The vote came in as 50.56% yes to 49.44% no.


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## Gringotts Bank (13 June 2019)

Psychedelic therapy is shaping up to be huge.  I wish there were some AU stocks in this space, because it will make the pot stock craze look like a blip on the radar.  

It's going to Canberra Jun 19.  

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/scienc...frontier-in-mental-health-tickets-62242368600

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ant-big-pharma-imperial-lsd-dmt-a8929796.html


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## basilio (21 June 2019)

*A potted history of the promotion of the legal lethal drug Cigarettes
*

*Juul’s New Marketing Is Straight Out of Big Tobacco’s Playbook*
The e-cigarette giant is relying on some awfully familiar tactics to distinguish its products.

Annika Neklason  11:55 AM ET





R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company

 Share 
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Out of a firestorm of controversy over teen nicotine use, Juul Labs emerged in January with a newly sober and adult marketing identity. Forget the fruit-flavored vaping pods, the colorful ads populated with young models, the viral Instagram and Facebook posts. What the Silicon Valley e-cigarette giant is really about, its $10 million television ad campaign declares, is helping cigarette smokers shake their cigarette addictions and get healthy.

The ads feature mature subjects with their ages clearly stated on screen: “Carolyn, 54,” “Patrick, 47,” “Mimi, 37.” They sit against muted domestic backdrops and say that because of Juul, they’ll never touch a cigarette again after decades of dependency. Juuling, they emphasize, is an “alternative” to smoking. Juul’s website underlines that message: “Our mission,” one page reads in bold white text, is to “improve the lives of the world’s one billion adult smokers by eliminating cigarettes.”

In its effort to define its products as a safer alternative to traditional cigarettes, Juul appears to be following a familiar marketing cycle. Throughout the 20th century, as warnings about the health risks of cigarettes arose, tobacco companies repeatedly found new ways to downplay concerns and advertise their products as healthy options. When their claims were refuted by evidence, they traded them out for new claims.
E-cigarettes like Juul’s are still a recent invention, and their long-term health effects remain largely unknown. Some evidence shows that vaping can help smokers quit, as Juul’s ads profess, and that it is a safer substitute for people who already smoke. But studies are finding that, like the many tobacco and nicotine products that preceded them, Juuls also come with considerable risks. History seems to be repeating itself.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/06/juul-big-tobacco-marketing/592174/


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## DB008 (22 June 2019)

*Senate Decriminalizes Marijuana Use In New York State*​(*Albany, NY) *The Senate today passed legislation that will address the racial disparities that are present in New York’s antiquated marijuana drug laws. New York’s existing marijuana laws disproportionately affect the African American and Latinx communities. This monumental legislation will decriminalize small amounts of marijuana and establish procedures for record expungements for both past and future convictions.

“Communities of color have borne the brunt of New York State’s marijuana drug laws. Our justice system directly reflects who we are as a society and that is why the Senate Majority is taking action to fix this broken system,” *Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins *said. “This legislation is marking a momentous first step in addressing the racial disparities caused by the war on drugs. The Senate Majority continues to move forward on full legalization and I thank Senator Jamaal Bailey for his leadership on this issue.”

*Bill Sponsor, Senator Jamaal Bailey *said, “In New York State, people of color are disproportionately arrested for marijuana possession. The misdemeanor charge for public view of marijuana possession gives those people convicted a criminal record that will follow them throughout their lives, potentially limiting their access to housing, access to education, affecting their ability to obtain employment, all leading to a potential inability to provide for their families. While this legislation falls short of the goal of legalization of adult-use cannabis, the ability to create a mechanism for expungement, both retroactively and forward-looking, is a step in the right direction in finally ending the heavy-handed war on drugs that has decimated communities of color.”

African-American and Latinx individuals are arrested at higher rates for misdemeanor marijuana possessions. In New York City, African-Americans are eight times more likely to be arrested on low-level marijuana charges and Latinx people are arrested at five times more. The racial disparities for arrests are wider for cities in Upstate, NY. According to the New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU), African Americans living in Schenectady County are 74 times more likely to be arrested on a marijuana charge.​
*Decriminalization of Marijuana*, S.6579A, *will:*


Decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana by reducing the penalty for unlawful possession of marijuana to a violation punishable by a fine.
Establish procedures for automatic record expungement both retroactively and for future convictions. 
Remove criminal penalties (since a violation is not a crime) for possession of any amount of marijuana under two ounce.
 Reduce the penalty to a $50 fine regardless of criminal history for possession under one ounce, and a $200 fine regardless of criminal history for possession between one and two ounces.
Add marijuana to the definition of “smoking” under the Public Health Law so that smoking marijuana will be prohibited in any circumstances where smoking tobacco is prohibited by law

https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/p...z7y8Lhcz6qQ4FKAXUn-iZG9hAf6XNDL9rgFgAYKfLVqPE​


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## DB008 (30 June 2019)

*Illinois is expunging marijuana convictions from*
*nearly 800,000 criminal records*​

If you've been arrested for weed in Illinois, you can breathe a sigh of relief.

Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker just signed HB 1438 this week, which makes cannabis legal in the state for individuals 21 and over, along with sweeping criminal criminal justice reforms designed to help those whose lives have been upended by the state's drug laws.

In addition to legalizing marijuana, the 610-page bill offers relief to the roughly 770,000 residents of the state with marijuana-related offenses on their criminal records, according to the Marijuana Policy Project.


*A new law legalizes weed and helps those caught with it in the past*​
The state's new Cannabis Regulation and Tax Act, which takes effect in 2020, allows people to automatically receive clemency for convictions up to 30 grams of cannabis. Those convicted with larger amounts, from 30-500 grams can petition a court to have the charge lifted.

The bill defines expunge to mean to "physically destroy the records or return them to the petitioner and to obliterate the petitioner's name from any official index or public record, or both." But it doesn't require the physical destruction of circuit court files.

The bill also includes a "social equity program," which makes it easier for those with marijuana convictions to get business licenses. The program also allocates $12 million for startup businesses related to cannabis, as well as funding for job training programs in the state's cannabis industry, the Marijuana Policy Project says.

The state's Department of Agriculture and its community college board are creating pilot programs to get people ready to work in the newly legal industry, and the state will require them to focus on enrolling the low income students into those programs.


*Illinois is the latest state to liberalize its cannabis laws*​
Gov. Pritzker is fulfilling a promise he made on the campaign trail, and is making Illinois the 11th US state to legalize recreational marijuana. So far 18 states have decriminalized marijuana, the MPP says, and in all 34 states allow patients with health complaints to use medical marijuana.
And Illinois is the latest state to offer clemency for marijuana convictions. Last month Washington Gov. Jay Inslee signed a law that gave marijuana offenders the ability to have their sentences vacated in the state.​

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/27/us/illinois-expunging-marijuana-convictions-trnd/index.html​


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## DB008 (7 August 2019)

​


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## DB008 (9 August 2019)

*New research shows legalized recreational marijuana a substitute for alcohol, but not tobacco*
​_New _Marketing Science _Study Key Takeaways:_​
Research shows once recreational marijuana is legalized, the number of online searches for tobacco increase by 8%, while searches for alcohol drop by 11%.​
The findings could have an implication on sales for the alcohol and tobacco industries.​
The passing of recreational cannabis increases online searches for cannabis done by adults by 17%, but not by youth.​

CATONSVILLE, MD, July 17, 2019 – The recent wave of recreational cannabis legalization across the U.S. could generate $22 billion in sales per year, but not everyone is happy about it. New research in the INFORMS journal _Marketing Science _shows the alcohol industry could be impacted when the substance is legalized.

“It appears the alcohol industry has valid reason to be concerned about legal marijuana and may need creative strategies to avoid market decline if it passes,” said Pengyuan Wang, an assistant professor in the Terry College of Business at the University of Georgia.

The study shows online searches for alcohol saw a drop of nearly 11%, but tobacco products were searched online nearly 8% more often.

The U.S. alcohol and tobacco industries are worth a combined $300 billion. They are typically avid opponents of marijuana legalization legislation, but this research suggests, “tobacco companies may need to reexamine their presumption, and that anti-cannabis legalization is not to the best of their interest,” said Wang. 

The research by Wang and co-author Guiyang Xiong of Syracuse University looked at anonymous data from 28 million online searches and 120 million ad impressions from a leading U.S.-based web portal from January 2014 to April 2017.

The study also found the legalization of recreational marijuana increases online searches by adults by 17%. There is actually a decrease in searches done by those age 19 years and younger after the substance is legalized.

“Contrary to widely held public concern after recreational cannabis is legalized, teenagers appear to lose interest, rather than gain interest,” added Wang. “Policymakers only concerned with an uptick in teen users, may want to rethink their stance.”​

https://www.informs.org/About-INFOR...uana-a-substitute-for-alcohol-but-not-tobacco​


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## DB008 (21 August 2019)

*MDMA treatment for alcoholism could reduce relapse,*
*study suggests*​The first study looking into the use of MDMA to treat alcohol addiction has shown the treatment is safe and early results show encouraging outcomes from the approach, scientists have said.

Doctors in Bristol are testing whether a few doses of the drug, in conjunction with psychotherapy, could help patients overcome alcoholism more effectively than conventional treatments. Those who have completed the study have so far reported almost no relapse and no physical or psychological problems.

In comparison, eight in 10 alcoholics in England relapse within three years after current treatment approaches. Dr Ben Sessa, an addiction psychiatrist and senior research fellow at Imperial College London, and who led the trial, said: “With the very best that medical science can work with, 80% of people are drinking within three years post alcohol detox.”

Eleven people have so far completed the safety and tolerability study, which involves nine months of follow-ups. “We’ve got one person who has completely relapsed, back to previous drinking levels, we have five people who are completely dry and we have four or five who have had one or two drinks but wouldn’t reach the diagnosis of alcohol use disorder,” Sessa said.

Most addiction is based on underlying trauma, often from childhood, explained Sessa. “MDMA selectively impairs the fear response,” he said. “It allows recall of painful memories without being overwhelmed.

“MDMA psychotherapy gives you the opportunity to tackle rigidly held personal narratives that are based on early trauma. It’s the perfect drug for trauma-focused psychotherapy.”

The first stage of the new study was designed to show the therapy is safe. Further research, which compares results with a randomised control group who receive a placebo instead of MDMA, will be needed to back up the treatment’s effectiveness.

After preliminary screening, including medical and psychological tests, the participants are given an eight-week course of psychotherapy. In weeks three and six, they are given a powerful dose of MDMA.

Sessions are conducted in a hospital with a psychiatrist and a psychologist present. Participants are given the drug and then spend eight hours with the specialists, mostly lying down, wearing eyeshades and headphones.

“We let them lead the sessions as to where they want to go. What comes up comes up, so it’s not very guided by the clinicians,” said Sessa.

After the MDMA-assisted sessions, patients stay overnight and are telephoned every day for a week to collect data on sleep quality, mood and potential suicide risk. Significantly, this data has shown no evidence of drug withdrawal or comedown symptoms from the MDMA.

“There is no black Monday, blue Tuesday, or whatever ravers call it. In my opinion, that is an artefact of raving. It’s not about MDMA,” said Sessa, referring to recreational users of the drug, which is often associated with clubbing.​


More on link below...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/19/mdma-treatment-alcoholism-relapse-study​


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## Gringotts Bank (26 September 2019)

CBD oil (medicinal, *non*-psychoactive) is unavailable to most who need it for pain because of red tape and cost.  Most doctors won't prescribe it purely because of the massive paperwork involved.  And yet marijuana (with all its known problems) is to be legalized in Canberra.  Utterly moronic politicians, and dangerous.  They clearly have no idea what they're doing.


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## Humid (27 September 2019)

More dangerous than alcohol or oxy?


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## Gringotts Bank (8 October 2019)

Psilocybin still leading the pack as a potential curative medicine for a range of illnesses*.  In contrast, CBD is just another symptom suppressor, though probably safer than opiates.

https://futurism.com/neoscope/researchers-gene-hacked-ecoli-psilocybin

*NB. Chronic pain is lumped with psychiatric illness.  Taken from 'Breaking Convention' conference in London.


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## DB008 (13 October 2019)

*Active agent in magic mushrooms could treat addiction, depression and anxiety*​Cooper speaks with participants and scientists who conduct clinical trials. Roland Griffiths, of Johns Hopkins University, is a pioneer in psychedelic research, which was studied extensively until former President Nixon signed the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. Thirty years later, Griffiths received FDA approval for to study psilocybin. The results amazed him. "The red light started flashing. It's unprecedented – the capacity of the human organism to change. It just was astounding." 

The experiences of the study participants on psychedelics, even under the highly controlled conditions used, are often harrowing but still worth it in the end. Researchers screen out people with psychotic disorders or with close relatives who have schizophrenia or Bipolar Disorder. So far, none of the participants reports any serious adverse outcomes. 

Griffiths said he is optimistic about the potential therapeutic value of the drugs but acknowledges they can be harmful under different circumstances. "Let's be really clear on that… We're very aware of the risks and would not recommend people simply go out and do this."​

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ps...depression-and-anxiety-60-minutes-2019-10-10/​


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## Knobby22 (13 October 2019)

There was a special on Radio National on the history and use of LSD.

It's being presently tested scientifically after many years of all use being banned and there appears t o be valid reasons for it to be used as a treatment. 

Need to go to ABClisten to hear.


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## sptrawler (24 October 2019)

Well I guess there is a fine line, that can quite easily be crossed.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ed-over-drug-trafficking-20191024-p533z4.html


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## DB008 (8 November 2019)

Some common sense from the NSW Coroner


*NSW Government told to introduce pill testing, scrap sniffer dogs at festivals*​A coroner has recommended pill testing be conducted in NSW, along with the decriminalisation of personal drug use and the scrapping of sniffer dogs at music festivals.

An inquest investigated the drug-related deaths of six young people, aged 18 to 23, at NSW music festivals over two summers.

Delivering her findings on Friday, deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame said there was "compelling" evidence to support pill testing, which could "prompt behavioural change".

"Drug checking is simply an evidence-based harm reduction strategy that should be trialled as soon as possible in NSW," she said.

Ms Grahame said high-visibility and punitive policing operations at festivals had "inherent dangers and few if any benefits" and drug detection dogs should be scrapped.

The coroner's draft recommendations were leaked last month and the NSW Government reiterated its opposition to pill testing trials.

Today, Ms Grahame said the evidence showed a heavy police presence and drug detection dogs could be intimidating and precipitate "panic ingestion" and "dangerous preloading", which could increase the risk of illness or fatality.

Ms Grahame gave recommendations to NSW Police including that drug detection dogs be scrapped.

She said the use of strip searches should be limited to circumstances where there is a "reasonable suspicion".

"The evidence arising from this inquest clearly indicates there is much that can be done to prevent MDMA deaths," Ms Grahame said.

"There are practical solutions to some of the issues identified."

Ms Grahame recommended a drug summit be held with relevant stakeholders to develop an evidence-based drug policy.

She said the Government should give "full and genuine consideration" to "decriminalising personal use of drugs, as a mechanism to reduce the harm caused by drug use".

Premier Gladys Berejiklian has consistently argued the harm reduction measure sends the "wrong message" to young people, instead arguing they should "just say no" to drugs.​

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...to-introduce-pill-testing-by-coroner/11685312


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## DB008 (22 January 2020)

*MDMA for PTSD granted Expanded Access by FDA, patient treatments begin*​Marking an impressive milestone in the development of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the treatment for Expanded Access, allowing certain patients access to the therapy before full market approval is granted. Ten treatment clinics in the United States are reported as ready to commence administration of the therapy, while Phase 3 trials are ongoing and full approval is estimated for 2022.

It takes a long time for a new pharmaceutical treatment to move from initial discovery to market approval. The process of human clinical trials alone can take anywhere from five to seven years, and that is assuming everything goes perfectly. The non-profit Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) has been working for decades to establish MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD.

The FDA’s Expanded Access program is designed to allow patients with serious illnesses access to treatments still in the processes of clinical investigation. Often informally referred to as the compassionate use program, Expanded Access offers individuals conditional access to specific treatments.

MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD is currently deep in Phase 3 clinical trials. While complete market approval is still most likely two to three years away, Expanded Access to the treatment has now been granted by the FDA.

MAPS has announced 10 treatment sites in the United States will initially begin Expanded Access administration of the therapy. The FDA Expanded Access approval is slightly more limited than the broader application being tested for, so pre-approval administration will only apply to “treatment-resistant patients with moderate to severe treatment-resistant PTSD”.

Moving forward, MAPS suggests more than 120 clinics have already applied to commence MDMA therapy under Expanded Access conditions. Once the program is up and running patients will apply for treatment directly to the individual clinic, however, the FDA still has ultimate approval over patient applications. Historically, the FDA has approved the vast majority of Expanded Access patient requests.

Fifty patients have been initially approved for Expanded Access treatment and MAPS will present patient data to the FDA from a number of these first Expanded Access treatments. The plan is to subsequently expand the Expanded Access program once its real-world efficacy has been established.

“We commend FDA for recognizing the great unmet medical need of PTSD by allowing access to MDMA-assisted psychotherapy on a compassionate basis for people with treatment-resistant PTSD,” says Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS. “We are delighted to begin generating real-world evidence about this potential new treatment.”​


More on link below...

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/mdma-psychotherapy-ptsd-expanded-access-fda-maps/​


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## DB008 (9 August 2020)

*The Canadian government is allowing 4 terminally ill patients to use psychedelic mushrooms to help ease their anxiety*​
The Canadian government will allow four patients with incurable cancer to receive psilocybin therapy, which uses the drug found in the so-called "magic mushrooms" or "shrooms," to ease their end-of-life distress.

The landmark decision by Minister of Health Patty Hajdu, marks the first time since 1974 that a legal exemption has been given in Canada for patients to access psychedelic treatment, according to a news release on Tuesday by TheraPsil, a non-profit organization working to help Canadians gain access to psilocybin therapy.

Laurie Brooks, one of the four terminally ill patients, expressed her gratitude for the approval, which comes over 100 days after the four patients made their plea to the government.

"The acknowledgment of the pain and anxiety that I have been suffering with means a lot to me, and I am feeling quite emotional today as a result," Brooks said in a statement. "I hope this is just the beginning and that soon all Canadians will be able to access psilocybin, for therapeutic use, to help with the pain they are experiencing, without having to petition the government for months to gain permission."​


More on link below...


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/06/world/canada-psychedelic-mushrooms-cancer-therapy-trnd/index.html​


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## DB008 (30 September 2020)

*Ann Arbor decriminalizes magic mushrooms, psychedelic plants*







ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) — The city of Ann Arbor has decriminalized psychedelic plants and fungi, including magic mushrooms, and police officers will no longer make them an enforcement focus.​​City Council voted unanimously Sept. 21 in favor of a resolution declaring it the city’s lowest law enforcement priority, MLive.com reported. It means that authorities won’t investigate and arrest anyone for planting, cultivating, buying, transporting, distributing, engaging in practices with or possessing “entheogenic plants” or plant compounds.​​The resolution defines entheogenic plants as plants and fungi that contain indole amines, tryptamines and phenethylamines “that can benefit psychological and physical wellness, support and enhance religious and spiritual practices, and can reestablish human’s inalienable and direct relationship to nature.”​​The move applies to ayahuasca, ibogaine, mescaline, peyote, psilocybin mushrooms and other substances with hallucinogenic properties considered illegal under state and federal law.​​Additionally, the city council called upon the Washtenaw County prosecutor’s office to halt prosecution of people involved in the use of such plants and plant compounds.​​A grassroots group called Decriminalize Nature Ann Arbor, or DNA2, has been lobbying city officials to take up the issue.​​After some council members were apprehensive about sponsoring the group’s proposal earlier this year, some ultimately decided that they were persuaded by arguments centering medical and spiritual benefits of using psychedelics, particularly for mental health treatment.​​Advocates contend that non-addictive psychedelics can provide a pathway out of opioid addiction.​​Council members noted that any major violation of state or federal law or any use of entheogenic plants that poses a threat to public health, safety and welfare still could result in city law enforcement involvement.​​Psychedelic substances can be used to help address substance abuse issues, addiction, recidivism, trauma, post-traumatic stress, depression, anxiety and other debilitating conditions, according to the resolution.​​Last year, Denver became the first U.S. city to decriminalize psychedelic mushrooms. The city was then followed by Oakland and Santa Cruz in California, which decriminalized all entheogenic plants.​

https://apnews.com/article/plants-archive-fungi-ann-arbor-b0ce69ca0961c150e0f900e8ea4cf432
​


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## DB008 (5 November 2020)

*Oregon Just Voted to Decriminalize Heroin, Cocaine, and Meth*


*The new punishment for petty possession of any illegal drug will be the legal equivalent of a traffic ticket.*​

Whatever happens with the rest of the 2020 election, the state of Oregon made history on Tuesday by decriminalizing possession of all illegal drugs, including heroin, cocaine, and meth.​​Oregon’s Measure 110 — the first state law of its kind in the United States — won with support from an emphatic 59% majority of voters. The measure does not technically legalize any drugs, but on February 1 the state will stop jailing people for petty possession. The new punishment will be the legal equivalent of a traffic ticket, with violators given the option of paying a $100 fine or being referred to options for addiction treatment​​The outcome marks a historic shift in U.S. drug policy, with Oregon aiming to replicate the success of similar experiments in Portugal, Switzerland, and a handful of other countries where punitive drug laws have been rolled back in favor of a more public health-oriented approach.​​"There's a lot of people who want to see punitive drug laws done away with, and really the entire drug war,” said Matt Sutton, a spokesperson for the Drug Policy Alliance, which organized the campaign for Measure 110. “This shows it's 100% possible that we can do that."​​Federal authorities will still be able to aggressively enforce drug laws in Oregon, and anybody caught with dealer-sized quantities will still face arrest and criminal prosecution under existing state laws. But the state’s lowest-level drug offenders will soon encounter a completely overhauled system. Drugs alone will no longer be grounds for an arrest. And the long-term consequences for being caught with recreational quantities of drugs will all but vanish.​
​“It’s the kind of violation where even if you don't pay the fine or get the health assessment, you still won’t go to jail,” Sutton said.​The decriminalization measure will use an estimated $100 million in tax revenue from legal marijuana sales in Oregon to dramatically expand social services for drug users, including more housing, medication-assisted treatment, and harm reduction services.​​​Haven Wheelock, who provides harm reduction services to drug users through Outside In, a Portland non-profit, expects the new law to have an immediate impact, especially for people who have been cycling in and out of jail for low-level drug cases.​​​“It’s going to be huge,” Wheelock said. “It’s going to allow people to get the services they need without fear of arrest. It’s going to change how people who don’t use drugs think about drug use. It’s going to allow us to move into a health-based system and hopefully be a model for other places. We have an opportunity to show the rest of the country this is how it should be.”​​Opponents of Measure 110 — mainly law enforcement groups — fear the lack of criminal penalties will just encourage more people to use hard drugs. Portland, like other major cities on the West Coast, has experienced a dramatic rise in homelessness in recent years, and there’s been a nationwide surge in fatal overdoses fueled by the powerful synthetic opioid fentanyl.​
But to the people who pushed for decriminalization, punitive drug laws have only made matters worse by stigmatizing users and perpetuating racial disparities in the criminal justice system. A pre-election report by the Oregon Criminal Justice Commission estimated that the state’s new measure could reduce “the significant overrepresentation of Black Oregonians” arrested for low-level drug offenses by nearly 95%.​
At least 25 countries have introduced some form of drug decriminalization, but Portugal is perhaps the best known example. The country enacted sweeping decriminalization in 2001 and saw new HIV infections and overdose deaths plummet in the following years. Overall rates of drug use in the country fell in the first 15 years, and now track roughly with the rest of Europe.​​​Oregon has been flirting with the Portugal model for years, starting with a change in 2017 that made drug possession a misdemeanor instead of a felony. But it took a well-organized and deep-pocketed campaign — with TV ads bankrolled by $500,000 from a foundation run by Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and his wife — to convince state voters to go all in. Oregon also approved a second drug-related ballot initiative Tuesday, with nearly 56% of voters backing an initiative that legalizes psilocybin mushrooms, another first for a U.S. state.​


More on link below...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy88qy/oregon-just-voted-to-decriminalize-heroin-cocaine-and-meth


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## DB008 (5 November 2020)

*Election Day was a major rejection of the war on drugs*​

In every state where marijuana legalization or another drug policy reform was on the ballot, it won.​​We still don’t know with certainty who will be the next president of the United States. But this year’s election results have given us a lot more clarity on one thing: American voters, even conservative ones, are ready to reel back the US’s war on drugs.​​In every state where a ballot measure asked Americans to reconsider the drug war, voters sided with reformers. In Arizona, Montana, New Jersey, and South Dakota, voters legalized marijuana for recreational purposes. In Mississippi and South Dakota (separate from the full legalization measure), voters legalized medical marijuana.​​In Oregon, voters decriminalized — but not legalized — all drugs, including cocaine and heroin. Also in Oregon, voters legalized the use of psilocybin, a psychedelic drug found in magic mushrooms, for supervised therapeutic uses.​​In Washington, DC, voters in effect decriminalized psychedelic plants, following the lead of several other cities.​​With its vote, Oregon became the first state in the US in modern times to decriminalize all drugs. And marijuana is now legalized in 15 states and DC, although DC still doesn’t allow sales.​



​
*This is a big rejection of the war on drugs*​​Collectively, the year’s ballot measures amount to a major shift in US drug policy.​​In the four states that legalized marijuana on Election Day, the policy will generally work as it has in other states that have legalized marijuana so far. Adults 21 and older will be able to possess and, eventually, legally buy the drug. State agencies will regulate production and sales, and local jurisdictions may be able to ban marijuana retailers within their borders. There will be taxes on marijuana. Depending on the state, home-growing marijuana might be allowed.​​That’s a big shift from where marijuana was before in these states, where possession and sales could still be punished with up to jail or prison time. It’s a particularly radical change for South Dakota, which, unlike many other states that legalize recreational use, had not yet legalized medical marijuana before Tuesday.​​In Oregon, possession of small amounts of all drugs, including cocaine and heroin, will no longer be punished with jail or prison time. Instead, those caught with the drugs will get a choice to pay a $100 fine or do a “completed health assessment” in an addiction recovery center.​​Unlike legalization, decriminalization does not mean sales will be allowed. In general, decriminalization means the removal of criminal penalties — particularly prison time — for the possession and use of a drug, but not the legalization of sales. So people wouldn’t get arrested for having small amounts of heroin or cocaine on them, but don’t expect stores legally selling either substance to pop up.​​Oregon had already legalized marijuana for recreational and medical uses, so the initiative mostly won’t change anything there, with one exception: On top of directing the savings from the initiative (due to, say, less incarceration) to more addiction treatment, the measure will also redirect some marijuana tax revenues to treatment. The measure’s proponents say that will all add up to at least $100 million more funding for addiction treatment a year — which would effectively quadruple how much the state spends on treatment outside of Medicaid and the criminal justice system.​​Separately, Oregon approved a measure that will allow the use of a psychedelic drug under the supervision of trained facilitators at “psilocybin service centers.” This approach actually has growing evidence behind it — to the point that psychedelic drugs are currently working through clinical trials approved by the Food and Drug Administration. Based on the studies, the guided hallucinogenic trips may help people overcome serious mental health issues like addiction, end-of-life anxiety, and PTSD, although experts say we still need more evidence.​​​
More on link below...

https://www.vox.com/2020-presidenti...inalization-new-jersey-arizona-oregon-montana



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