# So who's given up their day job to trade?



## caleb2003 (23 November 2006)

Who on here has taken the big leap from working for someone else to trading at home?

Any experience tales would be really helpful.

I'm aware of the risks etc etc and the steep learning curve and time required but just would like to see what others strategy for doing this has been, ie do you make a set amount each month and put it away for the mortgage and then trade more agressively with the rest or only work from a small pot, how long has it taken before realising a good profit? At what point do you know your money is available to spend rather than keep in the trading account for the likely losses to come?

Apart from the financials how has the motivation gone? ie dealing with the kids/wife at home whilst trying to look at charts or renting an office out of the house.


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## Sean K (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*

You need a pot of gold behind you to do this IMO. And/or, a partner willing to support you while you go though the trial and error, learning the art. I have been lucky to have both. 

You couldn't leave a full time job and go into this cold and make money IMO. Unless you're YT!   In which case, you leave high school and start trading.


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## caleb2003 (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*

How much would you consider a pot of gold to start with?


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## professor_frink (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> How much would you consider a pot of gold to start with?



I'd say about $60 000-75 000.


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## CanOz (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> How much would you consider a pot of gold to start with?




Only my humble opinion but....

If i felt confident enough that i could make enough profitable trades to make a living, i think i would need no debt, $100,000 in the trading account, and a partner that worked at least partime.

Your obviously more interested in those that have done it though, as i am too.

Cheers,


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## wayneL (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> You need a pot of gold behind you to do this IMO. And/or, a partner willing to support you while you go though the trial and error, learning the art.



Agree.



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> I have been lucky to have both.



Me too. 5 1/2 years now.


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## wayneL (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> How much would you consider a pot of gold to start with?



The more the better.


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## Sean K (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> How much would you consider a pot of gold to start with?



Depends on your lifestyle and your financial committments. Do you have a morgage, car loan, insurance repayments, children, future holiday plans, beer drinking responsibilities, yada yada. 

It's difficult to put an exact figure on, it's a case by case basis. Only you can work out if you can live with potentially no income for a period of time, or even negative when you get it wrong. (every chance - expect early trading experiences to fail) I have very few responsibilities, so I am not a good example. Trading is a hobby for me really.


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## caleb2003 (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> Agree.
> 
> 
> Me too. 5 1/2 years now.




I have the wife and may have the pot if that amount is sufficient to trade with good percentages (for risk etc). 

So 5 and a half years for instance is a fair amount of time, has the experience been worth it, not just financially but have you found yourself to have more time for family etc or are you spending most of your time researching?

Thanks for the replies.


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## bvbfan (23 November 2006)

I sort of have, I'm still getting asked to work but I can choose to go now or not.

For me the advantage is that I can still live at home and not have to worry about mortgage/rent.
And I'd rather not have to ever worry about mortgage payments in the future.

What's helped me get to this point is actually not trading but buying the right stocks and holding for good returns (ie. 300%-3000%). Even still I'd like to devote more to trading account than I have available, the funds are still primarily in long term holdings and will be until I can generate similiar returns each year from trading as I would from buy and hold strategy.


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## barney (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> You need a pot of gold behind you to do this IMO. And/or, a partner willing to support you while you go though the trial and error, learning the art. I have been lucky to have both.
> 
> You couldn't leave a full time job and go into this cold and make money IMO. Unless you're YT!   In which case, you leave high school and start trading.




I agree Kennas, I'm walking proof of that.  I proceeded to lose most of my pot of gold (doing better atm since I started educating myself) Fortunately I haven't lost the supporting partner   

Whatever you do Caleb, make sure you do some serious research, and don't play with too much of your capital b4 you are ready ........ How do you know you are ready ............. You stop losing your capital!!  Cheers Barney.


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## Sean K (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> I have the wife and may have the pot if that amount is sufficient to trade with good percentages (for risk etc).
> 
> So 5 and a half years for instance is a fair amount of time, has the experience been worth it, not just financially but have you found yourself to have more time for family etc or are you spending most of your time researching?
> 
> Thanks for the replies.



The market can become an obsession if you let it. You can spend as much time as you like analysing and researching and forget what might be important - like relationships. 

I usually force myself off the computer whenever my partner is home, which is very difficult. (she's on a girls night out at the moment -   he he)

She calls this compter 'my other girlfriend'.


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## Sean K (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> I have the wife and may have the pot if that amount is sufficient to trade with good percentages (for risk etc).
> 
> So 5 and a half years for instance is a fair amount of time, has the experience been worth it, not just financially but have you found yourself to have more time for family etc or are you spending most of your time researching?
> 
> Thanks for the replies.




And time wise, I have been rehearsing for this for about 10 years. Plus I have a brother in the industry who has mentored me and I have done some uni studies in finances, so it really all depends on what you bring to the table right now.


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## caleb2003 (23 November 2006)

It would also be interesting to know how people stay in the middle between procrastination and greed, ie doing too much or too little, always a problem for the undersupervised!


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## barney (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				kennas said:
			
		

> The market can become an obsession if you let it. You can spend as much time as you like analysing and researching and forget what might be important - like relationships.
> 
> I usually force myself off the computer whenever my partner is home, which is very difficult. (she's on a girls night out at the moment -   he he)
> 
> She calls this compter 'my other girlfriend'.




Yeah  ................ my wife is very long suffering about me and my computer as well ................ gotta give them enough attention cause they have a lot more "memory" space than the plug in versions ............ and you can't just hit the restart button when things aren't going to plan


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## Prime (23 November 2006)

Hi all,

I heard what I consider reasonably sound advice and that is ...

Live off your trading earnings for a period of 12 months or more.

At the same time bank (and do not touch!) your other "personal exertion" income.

If at the end of this period you encountered no financial ill effects then a decision to retire from the job can be made.

To add my own bit to the above advice, I'd prefer to continue as above for a 5 year period (or more) so that you have a reasonable opportunity to experience both good and bad market conditions and see how you fair in both.

If you survive that kind of apprenticeship, then you're set ... because you also have 5 years of unspent cash in your account which in turn becomes a pretty significant pot of gold to start some really serious trading.  

wadayarecon?


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## tech/a (23 November 2006)

Personally I couldnt think of anything worse.

Successful and profitable trading is as boring as hell.

But if you wish to live off it.

*(Stage 1)* 

With $80,000 you can make $2-4000 a week (averaged) or more if your really proficient short term trading but you'll fry your brain infront of a screen,Ive done it for 3 mths at a time spending around 4 hrs a day screen gazing and charting.This is while I had/have my day job---frankly thats what turned me away from what I think is the BEST business you'll ever have.
(*Bliss*----no staff,no equipment,no clients,no warehouse,no machinery) 
Which lead me to 

*(Stage 2)*

Most know I trade longer term mainly.
Now with 200K on Margin you can reurn as I have for the last 4 yrs 30% on capital so thats around $150k/ a year less costs plus dividends.
This takes around 10 mins a day and is as BORING as hell.

So in both cases LESS TAX in case one 30-50%
In case 2 some at the tax rate but as you hold for over 12 mths you could halve that,just cashing enough for drawings---*MOST forget the TAX * issue and its the MOST expensive cost. Nett figures mean little!

So why leave your job?


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## wayneL (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				caleb2003 said:
			
		

> So 5 and a half years for instance is a fair amount of time, has the experience been worth it, not just financially but have you found yourself to have more time for family etc or are you spending most of your time researching?
> 
> Thanks for the replies.




Yes I enjoy it... a couple of comments though. I have always liked working alone, seeking company, debate, help etc on my terms. I like the opportunity to disappear into my cave and shut out the world.

So it suits someone like me down to the ground.

Those people who enjoy the cut and thrust of daily business, hustle and bustle etc. will find it too lonely and boring.

It does however give me much more time with family etc.

But a fair warning. People will not like you for it. Many people are extremely jealous of the freedom you will have. (presuming you are successful)

For instance; I trade at night so am at large during the day. I will often ride into town on my bike dressed in my bohemian best and just hang about, talk to people etc. The ones that are scurrying about in there lunch time trying to do banking, picking up groceries in the precious little time they have do not like to see this.

They do not see my personal challenges, sometimes lonliness, sometimes boredom, the bad months etc. They just see something they *think they want to be and experience jealousy.

Be prepared for that.

Be prepared for Shadenfreude  if you fail too.

As far as time goes... depends on how you like to trade. I spend way more time than I need to. But I am passionate about it and enjoy it so its not a burden to me. On the whole, a lot less time required that a normal business in most cases.

My thoughts


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## barney (23 November 2006)

tech/a said:
			
		

> Personally I couldnt think of anything worse.
> 
> Successful and profitable trading is as boring as hell.
> 
> ...




Howdy Tech,  We are all familiar with your short trading expertise ...... Just wondering re your longer term investments ...... Do you have a criteria for picking your stocks? ie Why do YOU Invest in a company (fundamentals??  etc etc.)  This would make for some interesting reading for us newer chaps.  Cheers Barney.


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## caleb2003 (23 November 2006)

tech/a said:
			
		

> So why leave your job?




Mostly the job I do is about 10 times more boring than that and I am earning very well as a telecoms contractor but its more like 8 hours a day in front of a screen and 5 hours travelling plus having to deal with very unmotivated managers really deflates, after 7 years of this its time for a change although i think any job will be boring after 2 years plus (well in my limited experience up to now at least!).

I have a chance to release some equity and hope to use it in a business but am concerned about throwing lots of money upfront into a business and then losing it or being trapped in it.  With trading at least there seems to be a good degree of control of equity.

Great comments everyone, keep them coming.  If anyone has lost the lot doing it or made a good living or become rich or even gone mad then its all good knowledge for most in here


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## tech/a (23 November 2006)

Barney its all here has been for the last 4 years

http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=74


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## BSD (23 November 2006)

Sorry, but a lot of this is BS

In the last three years any mug could have made a living off a skinny wedge

And many of them are now claiming the ease of 30%pa and the virtues of margin

Depends on what your version of 'comfortable' is I guess - but I wouldnt base my analysis or a future business plan on my results from the last three years.


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## astroboydivx (23 November 2006)

Thanks Caleb for posing this question. Like yourself I'm reaching a fork in my road. At 29 and worth $500k I'm wondering if I buy a house and continue to be a bored IT guy, and leave my investments with the funds managers - or do I continue to rent and see if I can beat them at their own game?

Keep your answers coming people. Cheers.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (23 November 2006)

*Re: So who's given up their day job to trade?>*



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> Yes I enjoy it... a couple of comments though. I have always liked working alone, seeking company, debate, help etc on my terms. I like the opportunity to disappear into my cave and shut out the world.
> 
> So it suits someone like me down to the ground.




Good points brought up here. I too like my cave and enjoy shutting out the world. Real trading is suited to such a disposition. I naturally am a decision maker and value my existence as a living creature, not a sweat shop pretend wealthy wage slave.  



> Those people who enjoy the cut and thrust of daily business, hustle and bustle etc. will find it too lonely and boring.




It would probably lead to failure as normal business is different - totally.



> It does however give me much more time with family etc.




Yes.



> But a fair warning. People will not like you for it. Many people are extremely jealous of the freedom you will have. (presuming you are successful)




Try talking to someone and have them shove their opinions down your throat because they have a GENERAL understanding. I don't talk to normal people about it now.



> As far as time goes... depends on how you like to trade. I spend way more time than I need to. But I am passionate about it and enjoy it so its not a burden to me. On the whole, a lot less time required that a normal business in most cases.




I agree that it must be a passion or a very interesting thing to do, for those wanting to do it. You must understand how to adapt.


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## laurie (23 November 2006)

I stopped work for tax reasons there is no way I'm busting my gut out for the Tax office by having a day job and on top of that paying CGT on share sales which most are held for less than 12 months so I decided to reinvest my dividends while my wife is able to work and pay the bills 

cheers laurie


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## It's Snake Pliskin (23 November 2006)

BSD said:
			
		

> Sorry, but a lot of this is BS
> 
> In the last three years any mug could have made a living off a skinny wedge
> 
> ...




Good analysis of the last 3 years. 
Enjoy your evening.


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## Bronte (23 November 2006)

caleb2003 said:
			
		

> Who on here has taken the big leap from working for someone else to trading at home?
> Any experience tales would be really helpful.



Part time for about six years before taking the big leap.
Now into my sixth year as a professional trader


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## caleb2003 (23 November 2006)

astroboydivx said:
			
		

> Thanks Caleb for posing this question. Like yourself I'm reaching a fork in my road. At 29 and worth $500k I'm wondering if I buy a house and continue to be a bored IT guy, and leave my investments with the funds managers - or do I continue to rent and see if I can beat them at their own game?
> 
> Keep your answers coming people. Cheers.




As your IT job is probably going to be outsourced to an Indian or whatever at somepoint soon then its probably best to diversify!!!


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## wayneL (23 November 2006)

BSD said:
			
		

> Sorry, but a lot of this is BS
> 
> In the last three years any mug could have made a living off a skinny wedge
> 
> ...




Yes this is a good point.

This has been the most phenonimal time on the ASX for 20 years. 

I started in mid 2000 (holy cr@p its actually > 6 years now) fully aware of the ridiculousness of the dotcom bubble. In fact I started trading after a back injury, cause I didn't really have anything else, not because I was drawn in by the boom.

So I learned my early lessons in a bear market... and very happy that I did. Mind you I had learned a lot being a semi-professional punter before that even.

I think the worse thing for a trader is to cut their teeth in a rampaging bull market. 

So yes, BSD has a very good point, the market WILL change... can you adapt?

Cheers


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## bowser (23 November 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Yes this is a good point.
> 
> This has been the most phenonimal time on the ASX for 20 years.




Just out of interest Wayne, did you do well during 2001 & '02? 

After reading some old posts on reefcap, it sounded like most people where having a hard time making consistant profits.


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## stevo (23 November 2006)

If I were a wage slave and hated my job I would consider trading as a living if I had the funds. But if I liked (or even half liked it) my job I would develop a system that allowed me to work full time and trade longer term. Don't confuse activity with profitability. Tech summed it up in his post above - short term trading is demanding.

In terms of dollars the more the merrier - at least $500,000 (using leverage if necessary) and ideally so much that you don't really need to trade  But then it does depend on your "needs".

My long term aim is to make as much from trading as I do in business. It's really just a matter of sufficient capital married with suitable strategies. 

Work is really challenging at the moment. Occasionally I would like to walk away it's not that easy - I have a significant interest in the business. I trade as a separate business (see my blog for more details http://drawdown.blogspot.com/) and work as required in the business. 

I am in the fortunate situation that I can do both; trade long term  systems and reap the rewards of being in a rewarding, successful, but  challenging business. 

Stevo


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## nizar (23 November 2006)

tech/a said:
			
		

> Personally I couldnt think of anything worse.
> 
> Successful and profitable trading is as boring as hell.




Very true.
Im not sure why people think its the ultimate lifestyle.

In my opinion, you would need >$100k to start.

And tech, by the way, you were right, its much easier to trade longer time frames, intra-day doesnt work, you gotta let those winners ride, after a few losses, i understand this now.

And i just realise through our conversations on this board, iv almost taught me all of whats in Van Tharps book. Im more than half way through it, and all that stuff about expectancy and position sizing, it was revision, coz iv learnt it through you and Michael D. 

Many thanks.


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## wayneL (23 November 2006)

nizar said:
			
		

> intra-day doesnt work,



Not really true. There are lots of intraday traders out there. However it is a much harder route.

Trend following is a much surer route.


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## weird (23 November 2006)

I agree with Stevo's figure, I personally, would not even consider trading full time, if less than 500K to play with ...


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## nizar (23 November 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Not really true. There are lots of intraday traders out there. However it is a much harder route.
> 
> Trend following is a much surer route.




Yeh sorry i meant its not working for me right now   
You summed it up nicely.


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## MichaelD (23 November 2006)

nizar said:
			
		

> its much easier to trade longer time frames, intra-day doesnt work, you gotta let those winners ride, after a few losses, i understand this now.



YES!! You now have a chance at success since you've developed a key ability required for successful trading - to learn the lessons the market presents you with - and you haven't blown your account before working this out.   

On a more generic note on this thread, I think that very few people consider the true implications of trading for a living - doing the same thing day after day, most of which involves losing small amounts of money with the occasional big win to punctuate the losses; answering to no one (both a good and a bad point of trading full time); finding things to fill in the void of time once occupied by working for a wage; finding things to fill in the social void of not working in a group environment. Trading is the only profession I am aware of where you basically lose your way to success.

I'd make the argument that a significant number of full time traders don't do it primarily for the money, but simply because they enjoy trading. The fact that it pays the bills and supports whatever lifestyle they choose is a pleasant secondary bonus - newbies make the mistake that it's all about making lots of money, quickly, when that really should be a secondary objective.


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## wayneL (23 November 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> I'd make the argument that a significant number of full time traders *don't do it primarily for the money, but simply because they enjoy trading.* The fact that it pays the bills and supports whatever lifestyle they choose is a pleasant secondary bonus - newbies make the mistake that it's all about making lots of money, quickly, when that really should be a secondary objective.




I think that's true Michael.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (24 November 2006)

There are a lot of people out there that buy the image of sitting on a beach with a laptop looking at graphs. The propaganda is so powerful.


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## wayneL (24 November 2006)

/\  heheheheheheheheeeh  



			
				It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> There are a lot of people out there that buy the image of sitting on a beach with a laptop looking at graphs. The propaganda is so powerful.


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## stevo (24 November 2006)

> answering to no one



You always answer to someone.


> newbies make the mistake that it's all about making lots of money, quickly, when that really should be a secondary objective.



Spot on.

I like to compare trading to betting on a horse race that never finishes. Any time during the race you can move your bets and take profits and losses - and they could all win (or lose). *But the race never ends.* Just put your money on the faster horses any time you want and when they start to slow down change horses. I am sure that this example shows my lack of understanding about horse racing!

Stevo


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## MichaelD (24 November 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> There are a lot of people out there that buy the image of sitting on a beach with a laptop looking at graphs.



btw, if you actually try this you can't see a thing on the screen as the sun's too bright (yes, I've tried this).


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## constable (24 November 2006)

Havent worked for 3 months or so now and wouldn't change it for the world. Being able to spend more time with my 2 year old (who is currently beside me crying out because mum's outside) is priceless. While i've found trading rewarding and gives me more freedom it is hard work. When you take into account the hours of research, the hours of price fluctuations, that you can or cannot stomach and the hits and the miss hits. Some days you are better off turning of the screen and reintroducing yourself to the sunlight! But for me it has suited my reclusive nature and so far i"ve found it mentally stimulating and a journey of self exploration. Like waynel ,you do look at the wage slaves and realise you could never go back!
 "Trading is not for the faint of heart or weak of bowel" , be warned! But the rewards are there if you are not one of the 90%.


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## professor_frink (24 November 2006)

A question for any of the full timers-

Are there any out there that solely trade shares? If so, what are the plans for a bear market, or directionless market?


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## joslad (24 November 2006)

Setting the background: I've been trading shares successfully for the past 5 or 6 years. Initially buy and hold as I had a day job and couldn't monitor the sharemarket throughout the day.

A year or so ago, my wife was transferred overseas, so I gave up the day job and the kids and I accommpanied her on the posting.  Initially I had some short term work contracts but they have progressively dried up.  The pay was rat**** too, and I was only working to give myself something to do and earn a bit of pool/beer money!

For the past four months I have been day trading full time.  I have a CFD account that I funded with 20k.  It was enough to lose without getting too worried about it, should things not work out.

The first month was a bit of a disaster in that I lost a bit of money.  Held a couple of trades too long as they "were cheap and had to come back" but didnt.

2nd month was also a losing month, but not so bad - same sort of scenario as the first month.  With CFD's a decrease in price is painful and you have to dump stocks quickly that aren't moving in the right direction.  

I seem to have got my **** together now and the last two months have been great.  3rd month saw profit of $4000.  This month I am up a bit over $5200 with a week to go.  Those figures indicate a return on capital of 20%+ per month.  Maybe just a winning streak though.

A typical day for me is out of bed at 5.30 as the market opens at 6am (local time here in Jakarta).  By about 8.30ish, I have itchy feet and usually looking for some company so jump in the car and motor down to the local mall for breakfast/coffee etc.  I have a laptop and the mall has wireless so no problem watching the market.  I'm only off the air for around 20 minutes durng the travel/setup etc.  Can spend anywhere up to a couple of hours there reading the paper, chatting up the waitresses and perving at some of the sweet young things!!  Gotta love Jakarta.

Another plus is that I can do whatever I want when I want.  ie go and play golf.  But like any job, if you arent working (trading) you arent making any money.

I think Wayne has summed up the mental side of it fairly well.  It's a lonely business and he is correct when he says you are surrounded by envy and jealousy.

Having the mrs earning all our money needs, or having regular income from elsewhere, is essential.  I'd hate to have the additional pressure of having to earn our spending money.

It can be a grind sometimes, but I wouldn't give up this job for anything!

Looking at the trade summary screen, three trades on the go, I''m down $250  for todays efforts.  It ain't easy!!

Nearly time to move operations to the mall.....    

cheers all


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## dj_420 (24 November 2006)

when is i first started investing at beginning of this year i thought i would end up on a boat somewhere with my laptop. haha.

i think you could only do that in a short period of time if you had 10k or more on CDU or same amount in PDN for 3 years.

i have learnt that chasing a company who is going to be a ten bagger or more is a VERY VERY difficult task and they dont come along everyday.

so over this year ive learnt that small gains are still gains and they are much better than large losses. i changed my whole attitude towards trading around 3 months or so ago and began investing based on fundamental analysis and using a macro-economic analysis.

i have mostly just invested in resources. i began by determining what types of resources would be in demand. it may sound simple but it is very efficient and it works. for eg i would not want to be investing in any pure play copper stocks now as the macro-economic demand has gone for that metal.

so determine what will be in demand for the future then identify which stocks will benefit most (fundamental). i still have a long way to go and only consider myself a beginner but do realise i have come a long way from when i was throwing money on penny hopefuls and expecting a huge return.


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## CanOz (24 November 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> /\  heheheheheheheheeeh




You crack me up, an avatar for every occasion!


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## Edwood (24 November 2006)

hey all - can anyone tell me what the Bigcharts ticker code is for the main Aussie index?  ta in advance


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## CanOz (24 November 2006)

au:xao


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## Edwood (24 November 2006)

thanks Can

just moved down here from the UK - have been spreadbetting UKX, Dow, Dax, Cable and Nikkei a bit and now looking to pick up Aus - looks to have some nice workable moves


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## caleb2003 (24 November 2006)

Edwood said:
			
		

> thanks Can
> 
> just moved down here from the UK - have been spreadbetting UKX, Dow, Dax, Cable and Nikkei a bit and now looking to pick up Aus - looks to have some nice workable moves




Shame its not tax free like the UK!!!


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## x2rider (24 November 2006)

Hi Caleb 
Interesting topic 
I to would like to be able to give up work to be able to trade. But I don't think I have the mindset at the moment to be able to do this. I have given it a short burst but found that I was a bit of a personal battle as well. 
The buck stops with you completely and there is noone to blame for any mistakes but yourself. 
Definitely get something else to do during the day also and make sure that you try and only spend a set amount of time in front of the screen. And as WanyeL said be prepared for people who will not understand that just because you are at home you are free to talk or go out. There will be people that will know that you trade and will have much delight coming up and telling you that they saw on the TV that the market took a hammering. I used to then try and talk to them about shorting but realised it was a waste of time. 
With some of the tech stuff that you can get these days at work monitoring is a bit easier, with alerts and Txts for quick info. 
But have fun. I found that when I had a good earn I would draw out some money and reward myself with something tangible. A nice paintings for the office or a weekend away somewhere. 
Jump in. That waters fine. 
Cheers Martin


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## caleb2003 (24 November 2006)

Thanks for the comments up to now. I think theres been some real good advice and real life examples been posted and hopefully it's helping others who are watching this thread.

From my point of view I will definitely stop working for others soon, possibly after Jan when my next contract runs out. Even as a contractor I'm still treated like an employee which wasn't my initial plan 5 years ago when I started this.

So I've been looking to invest in a business for a couple of years but really am a bit suss about the start up costs, the hassle and responsibilty of having staff possibly and also even the high rate of failure, so Trading seems like a good business from the point of view of those things, whilst obviously the start up capital is required at least it doesnt have to be spent in a job lot.

As I've already prepared myself for starting a business and knowing that in many cases this can mean not realising a profit for up to 2 years then I can apply the same principle to trading but hopefully by utilising sensible money management I won't blow my account and then go back to working for others again!!!

I know it's a long and rocky road but as I seem to have a similar mindset to most of the people who seem to have done it on here then it's possibly worth a stab, I should add that the main reason for me personally is not the possible riches of money but the greater richness of time for me and my young family.

So up to now I'm getting the opinion that a home trader should be very self disciplined, not a social junkie and have strict attitudes towards risk management and should also be able to motivate ones self to work. 

Am I on the right path

Thanks


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## mit (24 November 2006)

*1 week to go*

I'm currently spinning LSL and annual leave to 5 months leave to see how I go trading for a living. I'm currently doing dividend trading and some short term (holding for 2-3 days trading both short and long - I call it trading the noise).

I hope to be able to quit by the end of the 5 months. I agree with others that you need to have cash set aside to cover the dry spells. Having a family I will have 7 months in cash and another 2 years if I sell some IPs. Also my trading capital is large enough to pay 150% of my initial "salary" so I can sock my money away.

I agree if you like your job the best thing you can do is trade part time and sock away the profits. I think it would be hard to get rich trading full time unless you are either 

1/ Single and can live on baked beans during the lean times.

2/ Have so much capital that your "salary" pales into insignificance to the annual returns.

MIT


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## It's Snake Pliskin (25 November 2006)

caleb2003 said:
			
		

> As I've already prepared myself for starting a business and knowing that in many cases this can mean not realising a profit for up to 2 years then I can apply the same principle to trading but hopefully by utilising sensible money management I won't blow my account and then go back to working for others again!




In trading if you are not realising profits then you are losing money. 

Now if you earn some income from trading that covers expenses it still is very difficult due to taxes, the time value of money etc. 

Being an employee and walking through the door, you start making money by simply doing that.

*WayneL,*

Nice avatar!


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## pacer (25 November 2006)

Pays my bourbon bill...the more crap I talk the more money I have .....buuurrrrpppp!!!....lol..........*MADE.....:*


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## It's Snake Pliskin (26 November 2006)

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Are there any out there that solely trade shares? If so, what are the plans for a bear market, or directionless market?




Professor some ideas:
1. One can use a counter-trend system.
2. Trade multiple markets.
3. Focus on the stocks that are trending up - with patience.
4. Be mentally prepared to lose money and for reduced profits.

Disclaimer: This is not representative of what I do or what anyone else should do.


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