# The Official ASF Insider Trading Thread



## nooberator (23 October 2010)

RULES

#1 - The first rule of Insider Trading Thread is, you do not talk about Insider Trading Thread.

#2 - The second rule of Insider Trading Thread is, you DO NOT talk about  Insider Trading Thread.

#3 - If someone stops out, goes broke, gets investigated, the Trade is over.

#4 - Two inside guys to a Trade.

#5 - One Trade at a time.

#6 - No inside info, no trading.

#7 - Trades will go on as long as they have to.

#8 - If this is your first night at Insider Trading Thread, you have to Trade.


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## trainspotter (23 October 2010)

Is this a rerun of Fight Club or are you just plain schizophrenic? 

Wanna insider trade?


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## nioka (24 October 2010)

Insider trading. What is it?

I try and get as much information about a company as I can before I invest in that company. I often invest in companies that the information I recieve comes from employees directly or indirectly. Two of my best investments lately have been made because of information gleaned indirectly from inside the company. In one case the result of barbecue talk received from a friend who interacts socially with the company management.

So to eliminate "insider trading" does that mean that no BHP employee should invest in BHP?. Especially the office cleaner who may notice some scribble on a desk pad.

Being a nondrinking company exec in the past I was often in a situation at functions where there was a few opposition execs there that gave away some vital information regarding their business. Does that then mean that attending a function where you got that information was "insider information" that prevented one from taking advantage of that info.

So if this is the official insider trading thread, can you please define insider trading.


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## trainspotter (24 October 2010)

#1 - The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club.

#2 - The second rule of Fight Club is, you DO NOT talk about Fight Club.

#3 - If someone says stop, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over.

#4 - Two guys to a fight.

#5 - One fight at a time.

#6 - No shirts, no shoes.

#7 - Fights will go on as long as they have to.

#8 - If this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.

Go and get the movie Fight Club nioka and observe outside of the square.

Try here for a glossary of definitions of "insider trading" http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=...g&sa=X&ei=23vDTKHENJGCvgPLrNXeCA&ved=0CBUQkAE


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## Joe Blow (24 October 2010)

I am assuming this thread was started in jest, so I will let it continue on that basis. 

Needless to say, ASF does not allow the posting of price sensitive information about publicly listed companies that has not been announced to the market. 

If you believe someone has posted inside information or is purporting to have posted inside information, please report the post immediately and we will take appropriate action.


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## trainspotter (24 October 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> I am assuming this thread was started in jest, so I will let it continue on that basis.
> 
> Needless to say, ASF does not allow the posting of price sensitive information about publicly listed companies that has not been announced to the market.
> 
> If you believe someone has posted inside information or is purporting to have posted inside information, please report the post immediately and we will take appropriate action.




Quite correct JB. Nooberator was referring to the movie "Fight Club" released in 1999 and starring Edward Norton (Narrator) and Bradd Pitt (Tyler Durden). Probably the best movie ever for it's originality. 

Tyler Durden: "Now, a question of etiquette - as I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch?"

Synopsis: An office employee and a soap salesman build a global organization to help vent male aggression. 

No insider trading going on here. Just an attempt at levity.


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## awg (24 October 2010)

I think many of us would know knowleagable employees of ASX companies.

It is interesting to hear their interpretations of such things as:

*The general market situation for their industy and their company

*Their opinion of any current strategy the company may be undertaking, especially if downward SP has been experienced.

*The competency and demeanour of the management

As they have such a vested interest, often they are informed and opiniated on these matters, if they can be drawn into discusssion.

I dont think this constitutes insider information??

and I wouldnt repeat it anyway, as it was private conversation.

The matters discussed were not detailed into figure breakdowns and not with senior management that were privy to information, but as I said, with savvy employees, who were also investors, and could sniff the breeze

Unfortunately, I did not act on what I gleaned, because I would have profited


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## Joe Blow (24 October 2010)

trainspotter said:


> No insider trading going on here. Just an attempt at levity.




Yes, I own Fight Club on DVD. Great movie! 

I certainly don't mean to be a party pooper, but occasionally I feel the need to jump in to set the record straight in case the intention of a thread is misunderstood. When it comes to the topic of insider trading I can't afford to be too careful. As administrator I have to ensure that everything that is posted on ASF is in accordance with Australian securities law, as I am sure most here would appreciate.


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## trainspotter (24 October 2010)

Rene Rivkin was guilty of this and Steve Vizard was "alleged" to have carried out this heinous act of desperation. 

I am of the belief that if the information comes from overhearing a conversation or that someone associated with a company blabs over a few beers around a BBQ and you decide to RISK purchasing shares in the company and it works out then this is fine. On the other hand if you are knowledgeable in the machinations of the company and you explicitly seek out the information from individuals to perform a paper trade for profit then you are deeply in the manure. Just my opinion of course.

Joe Blow wrote "I certainly don't mean to be a party pooper, but occasionally I feel the need to jump in to set the record straight in case the intention of a thread is misunderstood. When it comes to the topic of insider trading I can't afford to be too careful."

'Roger roger wilco whisky bravo xray zulu. Understood. Over and out"


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## Miner (25 October 2010)

nioka said:


> Insider trading. What is it?
> 
> I try and get as much information about a company as I can before I invest in that company. I often invest in companies that the information I recieve comes from employees directly or indirectly. Two of my best investments lately have been made because of information gleaned indirectly from inside the company. In one case the result of barbecue talk received from a friend who interacts socially with the company management.
> 
> ...




Interesting question on BHPB

I have hardly seen any of the BHPB directors sells or buys shares (as from ASX site) excepting when they get their lion's shares as performance.

When I worked in Sons of Gwalia (now after liquidation became SBM) the rule for us was simple - if you are buying shares you need to advise the Company Finance Director.

Some companies have windows open for buying their shares .

But IMO most insider trading comes from three  sources:


The finance agencies who get the tips to raise capital -some of them  share the news with their mates

the geos when they with trend eyes understand the value of ore and many a time share the tip with mates again. It is often good time between assay analysis is done and released to market. The assay analysts are often good source. If you know them

Last on the lot are drillers . As soon as the logging data comes they send emails to friends to mak
e fortunes


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## gordon2007 (25 October 2010)

Miner said:


> The finance agencies who get the tips to raise capital -some of them  share the news with their mates
> 
> the geos when they with trend eyes understand the value of ore and many a time share the tip with mates again. It is often good time between assay analysis is done and released to market. The assay analysts are often good source. If you know them
> 
> ...




Well said I believe. Makes one wonder though...do said drillers and geo techs have their own forums where they inadvertantly discuss things. Could possibly be a new way of dyor.


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## Agentm (25 October 2010)

gordon2007 said:


> Well said I believe. Makes one wonder though...do said drillers and geo techs have their own forums where they inadvertantly discuss things. Could possibly be a new way of dyor.




yes there are

i have seen some amazingly sensitive info on a drilling site, things no corporation would want to see a geo post. which when i picked it up and passed it on to a company i was invested in became a key component and indicator during their drilling ops.. 

i think there are many cases where a roadshow presentation put out on the asx is vastly different to the ones shown during a roadshow, and its often the extra slides and data that are not released to the public that have a lot of edge.. 

when you think how you pay a broker firm to write up a glowing report about your business, isnt that insider trading? the broker gets a lot of data not publicly available, then passes it on to their respective clients, when the general market is oblivious to the data and the analysis of that data..

officially insider trading is deemed illegal, but i see plenty of circumstances where the general shareholder is very much in the dark over events and data that is passed onto brokers first.


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## gordon2007 (25 October 2010)

Agentm said:


> yes there are
> i have seen some amazingly sensitive info on a drilling site, things no corporation would want to see a geo post. which when i picked it up and passed it on to a company i was invested in became a key component and indicator during their drilling ops..




Do you have any links for these sights?


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## Agentm (25 October 2010)

mindat is interesting

i tend to look at sites that have tech heads that are involved with my investment..  so if its drilling i look at drilling forums..

just pick and choose

there are stacks of forums, researchers and data on everything..


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## nooberator (25 October 2010)

nioka said:


> Insider trading. What is it?
> 
> I try and get as much information about a company as I can before I invest in that company. I often invest in companies that the information I recieve comes from employees directly or indirectly. Two of my best investments lately have been made because of information gleaned indirectly from inside the company. In one case the result of barbecue talk received from a friend who interacts socially with the company management.
> 
> ...





IMO it's only considered Insider Trading if you get caught, up until then its just research, albeit thorough.


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## noie (26 October 2010)

As I work for an exchange I have had and given my fair share of insider trading lectures...

The main point to note is this line:

_"Trading in securities by individuals with potential access to non-public information about the company"_

If the information IS in the public domain, in any form there is no issue.

For an example on something people think is insider trading but is not, look at MNC last week...observer the volume before the Friday.
Obviously some people out there knew what was going to be in the D+D newsletter and acted early, the actual info did not come from the company, and hence can never amount to any insider trading.


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