# AAPL - Apple Inc. (NASDAQ)



## John Trader (4 December 2015)

Waiting for the the continuation of fall


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## johnpendles (9 December 2015)

Why is Apple only trading at 12 P/E ?


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## daytradeprofit (1 May 2016)

*Where Apple stock price is Headed in the Next Years*

Apple has to sell over 48 million iPhones a quarter just to stand still and to match last Christmas it has to sell 75 million. With the biggest markets saturating and the remaining markets unable to afford the price tag, the perception is it can’t be done.
Yet rather than use the sell-off as an opportunity to buy more shares, one trader sees more pain for the world’s largest company, which up until recently could do no wrong in the eyes of investors.

If apple breaks down $83 level, then we have real problems...if not so it's all open

At the end of 2015, Apple Inc. (NASDAQ:AAPL) was one of the most popular stocks among the funds with 133 funds holding $17.72 billion worth of stock
. 
Apple’s main Q2 results was:
Revenue: $50.56bn down 25.6% vs. market forecasts of $51.55bn
Earnings Per Share (EPS): $1.90, down 18% vs. forecasts between $1.98-$2
Net Income: $10.516bn, down 22.5%, vs. forecasts of $10.977bn
Gross Profit margin: 39.4% vs. forecasts of 39.6% and 40.8% in Q2 2015
iPhone sales: 51.2 million, above average forecast of 50 million, but well short of 61.2 million sold in Q2 2015 while I phone are produce 68% from their profit’s

From technical view and looking on apple charts we can see the main picture reflected: Apple stock price as long as price will stay over ...


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## notting (4 July 2017)

Apple led the charge out of the GFC, it was really the only truly shining light in those dark times.  Now it and the other FANG stocks are looking topy and poppy!  Could be the sign to be careful!


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## notting (6 February 2018)

Below it's 200 day moving average......


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## galumay (17 June 2018)

mmm....every now and then I look at AAPL and think I should exit this business as price has run so far ahead of any valuation range I can conjure up, but its so hard to pull the trigger on this momumental cash cow! I am up about 100% these days and I struggle to imagine where any meaningful growth can come from in the future, but I bet plenty thought that before the iPod, before iiTunes, before the iPhone, before iPads....


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## greggles (3 August 2018)

Apple becomes the first company to reach a market capitalisation of $1 trillion. Quite a milestone.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/02/investing/apple-one-trillion-market-value/index.html


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## PZ99 (3 August 2018)




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## greggles (3 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> View attachment 88703



If only time travel were possible. We'd all be rich.


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## galumay (3 August 2018)

Happy I resisted the temptation to sell back in June!


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## notting (3 August 2018)

It always helps when Buffet buys it again and tells everyone and it reverses and goes to the heavens.
Compare to the other FANGs it's valuation is quite modest.

The Ipod was a very cunning way to grab the crazy teen market which is really where the heat is!
Then transposing that onto a phone made the Iphone. There were smart phones around that were doing everything it could. So it reached cult like status on the back of teen pop culture then they could sell any garbage like Ipads which are virtually useless the to the average household Muppet. Then came Dumb watches anticipating the Iwatch. that have a battery life of 4 days, for really dumb people who couldn't wait for the Apple Dumb Dumb Watch.

The odd thing about Apple is that it is a closed CULTure for people that aren't that tech savvy.
They don't realize how much they are being screwed and how limiting the Apple environment is amidst all the hype. There also not savvy enough to know how to get out of it and get something far more dynamic and useful. It all gets a bit hard. Well crafted! Apple also make that hard for you like trying to leave Scientology.
Great marketing but if I were recruiting for a tech company anyone applying for a job and wearing an Apple Watch would not be given a job!!
But hey drinking Coke ain't exactly for smart people either.
Great investment as a stock.


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## galumay (3 August 2018)

I would disagree with a lot of your opinions about Apple, especially the idea that its not for the tech savvy. No doubt I am biased though, having worked in tech & IT for many years and owning an Apple store!

The real future of Apple is likely to be in the services area rather than hardware, although I think they will continue to supply the high end of the market. Apple has enormous flexibility in where it chooses to develop new tech, that cash stash allows for almost unlimited R&D.

I suspect Apple may well be a very different business in another 10 years.

(I know you were probably just joking, but I can assure you that wearing an Apple watch would have no negative bearing on your chances of getting an IT job.)

ps. You would be amazed at how widespread the use of iPads is in areas like health, education and science. You may not 'get' them, but they have proved extremely popular in a wide variety of fields. Its not just all the kids, trust me!


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## Value Collector (3 August 2018)

galumay said:


> ps. You would be amazed at how widespread the use of iPads is in areas like health, education and science. You may not 'get' them, but they have proved extremely popular in a wide variety of fields. Its not just all the kids, trust me!




My Grandmother and quite a few people in her retirement village are getting iPad's as their regular computers and lap top's wear out, People in that category mainly just want to use Face Book, Play games and face time family and having an iPad instead of a Lap top means they can easily use it from their chair, with out having to go to the LAP top/ computer, an older person doesn't really want to have a lap top on their lap, But an iPad is very convenient.

I don't own any Apple shares directly, But have them via my Berkshire holding, which I am happy with.


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## galumay (3 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> But an iPad is very convenient.




Yes, my wife has an iPad you would have to pry out of her dead hands. She used to have a laptop but she ditched that for the iPad, she now has the Pro with the detachable keyboard, 90% of the time she uses it without the KB, but if she is writing emails she will use it. She watches Netflix and Foxtel on it, reads books in bed and plays inane games on it!


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## notting (3 August 2018)

I've also worked in IT.



galumay said:


> The real future of Apple is likely to be in the services area rather than hardware




Agree.



galumay said:


> You would be amazed at how widespread the use of iPads is in areas like health, education and science.




No. I am all for IPads for specific functions exactly as you have stated.  I think they are brilliant for specific business tasks like that with a good app created by someone else! The App idea(free outsourcing to the world) was possibly the greatest stroke of genius of this century, who ever came up with that!?
Just not so much for the home frog (where the big market and hype is) where it ends up unused mostly or gets a keyboard attached to it where it morphs into an overpriced really bad laptop!

Probably very effective but rather expensive toy to shut the fricken kids up and depriving them of a decent well rounded developmental childhood (ruining their eyes as it goes) for the sake of parents getting on with adult stuff. (Why have kids in the first place if your not going to do what really is good for them) Hopefully someone who cares may be able to, or may have already developed some good educational stuff helpful for early development so there's +'s and -'s there.

It's really amazing what sells.  For instance have you seen how much Microsoft promote the pen that comes with the Surface pro? a much better device by the way, but a rip off as well.  The pen is the least useful thing for touch screens and would not be used by just about everyone who buys that. Yet is such a great selling point it's almost all they show the dudes mucking around with on the adds! 
It's like when they started putting cup holders in your knew car! WOW, I'll take it!

Apples innovations and marketing are truly ground breaking.  It's the overpriced, inflexibility, massive price gouging for a bit more memory (or anything), entrapment and naive culture that makes me want to kill people!
                                                > Sent from my 8 year old windows laptop <
                           (na na nana na na na naaaa  YOU don't have one, you're a loser. You have to get one )


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## luutzu (3 August 2018)

notting said:


> It always helps when Buffet buys it again and tells everyone and it reverses and goes to the heavens.
> Compare to the other FANGs it's valuation is quite modest.
> 
> The Ipod was a very cunning way to grab the crazy teen market which is really where the heat is!
> ...





Bill Marr is right about Jobs. Same applies to Elon Musk too. Though Jobs is a lot smarter than Musk. 

Apple gadgets... yea, for non-tech consumers and pretentious artsy pricks.

I switched out of Apple products a few years ago. Can't do much on the thing. When I want to transfer movies or music, or even ebooks... have to spend like an hour to sync and format the thing.


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## luutzu (3 August 2018)

galumay said:


> I would disagree with a lot of your opinions about Apple, especially the idea that its not for the tech savvy. No doubt I am biased though, having worked in tech & IT for many years and owning an Apple store!
> 
> The real future of Apple is likely to be in the services area rather than hardware, although I think they will continue to supply the high end of the market. Apple has enormous flexibility in where it chooses to develop new tech, that cash stash allows for almost unlimited R&D.
> 
> ...




Dude, you're describing the consumption of tech, not the "tech savyness" of it. 

Apples are closed, proprietary environment. You buy to watch, click stuff on it.  

It's well marketed, its hardware are good, and it looks great. But tech geeks don't own the thing because you can't add stuff or do any hack on it. That's why it almost went broke back in the 90s.

What saved it is the marketing and consumer culture. Not the techies.


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## galumay (3 August 2018)

notting said:


> It's the overpriced, inflexibility, massive price gouging for a bit more memory (or anything), entrapment and naive culture that makes me want to kill people!




We will have to agree to disagree about that part! Despite that I think we can agree its been an incredible business for the last 20 years or so and probably has a bit more steam in it yet!

(that must be the oldest, working windoze laptop in the world!!)


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## Value Collector (4 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Apple gadgets... yea, for non-tech consumers ...
> 
> .




Isn't that the vast majority of consumers, I mean most people just want to be able to use the internet, get face book, face time, play games, read books etc without any fuss.

I think Apple products do that, my 81 year old grandmother has an iPhone and iPad, and she loves them, they are super user friendly, she face times, plays games etc etc, and now even controls her TV through the iPad.

Her neighbour wanted the same after seeing her setup, so her family bought a Samsung phone for her, and it is sitting on the shelf, she can't work it out, where as the apple products see so easy for people to understand.



> But tech geeks don't own the thing because you can't add stuff or do any hack on it. That's why it almost went broke back in the 90s.
> 
> What saved it is the marketing and consumer culture. Not the techies.




Whats wrong with that?

For most people the device is just a tool used to access content, the end goal is to access the content and as long as its user friendly and people can find and use the content they pick the device up to access, they are happy.

Also, for me the way my apple devices share information with each other and seemlessly function really adds value, alot more than any value I would get if I "hack on it".


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## luutzu (4 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> Isn't that the vast majority of consumers, I mean most people just want to be able to use the internet, get face book, face time, play games, read books etc without any fuss.
> 
> I think Apple products do that, my 81 year old grandmother has an iPhone and iPad, and she loves them, they are super user friendly, she face times, plays games etc etc, and now even controls her TV through the iPad.
> 
> Her neighbour wanted the same after seeing her setup, so her family bought a Samsung phone for her, and it is sitting on the shelf, she can't work it out, where as the apple products see so easy for people to understand.




Had she tried to sync her music and books on iTunes? Or download a movie [legally ] on the PC, transfer them to the iPhone to cast on the TV?

Or just add new gigs to store a few more pictures. Can't, no slots for those microSD cards on them. 

I had a few generation of iPhones and a couple of iPads. But that was before Samsung and Android improved their hardware and apps. 

I'm still trying to figure out how to reinstall a Macbook pro for my daughter. 
I bought a mac, decided to convert the os to Windows because I know it well and can get various apps for it. 

Mac apparently doesn't like windows running on it so kept crashing the damn thing. Now I got to reinstall a macOS... and have to spend another few days to work that out. 


Apple products are nice and sexy if the consumer just want to plug and play with what comes prepackaged. Which, like you say, is the majority of people. so that's good for Apple and its shareholders.

But it's no good for anyone who just want to do a bit more with the stuff they paid for. 

And on a PC, forget about wanting to add better graphic cards, more gigs or just the usual mix'n'match thing "techies" would do with their computing hardware. So I have no idea where some people get the idea that Apple and Macs are for geeks. 

But Apple better come up with something completely new soon though. The i's gravy train might not last too long if all it does is add a few cosmetic changes a year, write an app to dejuice the battery. 

Huawei is now the second largest selling mobile phone maker. I think the largest is Samsung. 

A lot more people could afford a "good enough" phone at 1/5th the price. Samsung is very, very good. My brother in law love his massive Huawei for $200.


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## Value Collector (4 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Had she tried to sync her music and books on iTunes? Or download a movie [legally ] on the PC, transfer them to the iPhone to cast on the TV?
> 
> Or just add new gigs to store a few more pictures. Can't, no slots for those microSD cards on them.
> 
> ...




I watch movies though itunes, and all my apples devices eg computor, phone, and Apple TV are all perfectly syncd I have all the movies downloaded on my computor and 2 on my iPhone,

I am not a tech head, it just does it itself, when I buy a new phone I log into my Apple account and it automactically makes the new phone “my phone”.

My grandmother adds photos to her iPad using an sd card dongle.

No doubt some people like to tinker, but I think the vast majority just like to have their device work and get content easily.

Not to mention that Apple devices have heaps of features that make them work really well together with other people that have them.

Eg. iMessage allows messages to work even when you are over seas via WiFi and allows photos to be sent in full quality.

Face time makes it easy to communicate while overseas via WiFi, without needing a separate app.

I can answer calls on my computor while I am sitting at it, and send text messages from the computor,

I can airdrop photos and videos in full quality between my devices and to other people.

I can put photos and videos from phone up on tv using Apple TV etc.

When you are all in on Apple devices, everything just works so well, and friends and family that use Samsung don’t seem to have all the functionality in such a seamless way.

I guess if you are trying to install windows etc you are going to have a hard time, but I don’t personally get why you would do that, because you will lose all the good benefits.


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## McLovin (4 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> For most people the device is just a tool used to access content, the end goal is to access the content and as long as its user friendly and people can find and use the content they pick the device up to access, they are happy.




Put me, and 99% of people I know, in that camp.

I have Windows on my iMac running on VW Fusion. I had it really only when I first got my iMac as a backup and I probably haven't used it in a year or so. Never had any issues with it running though.


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## luutzu (4 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> I watch movies though itunes, and all my apples devices eg computor, phone, and Apple TV are all perfectly syncd I have all the movies downloaded on my computor and 2 on my iPhone,
> 
> I am not a tech head, it just does it itself, when I buy a new phone I log into my Apple account and it automactically makes the new phone “my phone”.
> 
> ...




I guess some people like Macs, others like IBM compatibles devices. 

I've found it very difficult and time consuming to just transfer files. Maybe that's because I don't have a Mac PC. But each time I log into iTunes, the entire phone's content need to sync to some backup folder, or the cloud. Why? If I want a backup, I'd back it up. Just want a file transferred. 

Then to copy a movie from the pc to the phone or ipad, if the format isn't right, it'd take like an hour to convert. With Android I'd just drag and drop anything. 

But yea, I'd imagined that if all my devices are Apple's, they'll work fine together.

I think Apple do make high quality stuff. Looks great. Just I'm used to PCs i can take apart and bang around. Don't like devices where the price says don't touch.


A dongle is not the same as an SD you insert in. 

Was thinking between the iphone8+ or the Samsung Notes+ a couple years ago. One costs a couple hundred extra for about 10gig or something. For $200 on eBay I got about 150gig microSD. Slot it into the phone and you can hold a dozen or so HD movies.

When you have kids... a few gigs that come with the iPhone won't be enough to store the photos, home videos and Wiggles videos you'd need for road trip emergencies. 


I think facetime only works when the other side also have a Mac? So wouldn't most just use Whatsapp and such anyway?

But yea, having to go all over the place to do things is what separate a tech geek from a gadget geek.


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## luutzu (4 August 2018)

McLovin said:


> Put me, and 99% of people I know, in that camp.
> 
> I have Windows on my iMac running on VW Fusion. I had it really only when I first got my iMac as a backup and I probably haven't used it in a year or so. Never had any issues with it running though.




Maybe no issue because you rarely runs it?

I used to partition my mac too. But I hardly use the Mac so decided to get rid of it completely. Installed the new Windows and the speaker doesn't work. Reinstall all mac/pc compatible stuff then it crashed after a couple days. Tried again, crashed again.


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## McLovin (4 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Maybe no issue because you rarely runs it?
> 
> I used to partition my mac too. But I hardly use the Mac so decided to get rid of it completely. Installed the new Windows and the speaker doesn't work. Reinstall all mac/pc compatible stuff then it crashed after a couple days. Tried again, crashed again.




Maybe. But the point is I don't care. Anyone who wants to tinker with their computer won't buy an Apple. They have about 5%-10% market share. Whatever niche they're filling is not under threat by the Dick Smith hobby crowd.


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## luutzu (4 August 2018)

McLovin said:


> Maybe. But the point is I don't care. Anyone who wants to tinker with their computer won't buy an Apple. They have about 5%-10% market share. I'm fairly certain whatever niche they're filling is not under threat by the Dick Smith hobby crowd.




Yah, that's the point notting was making a few posts back. That Apple products are not for "tech" users, just consumers who like overpriced new tech gadgets. 

Some might just like Apple because it make them feel superior to other "hobby crowd" losers shopping at Dick Smith. 

Ask Buffett whether he think Apple is a tech company or a high-end retailer.


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## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> I guess some people like Macs, others like IBM compatibles devices.
> 
> I've found it very difficult and time consuming to just transfer files. Maybe that's because I don't have a Mac PC. But each time I log into iTunes, the entire phone's content need to sync to some backup folder, or the cloud. Why? If I want a backup, I'd back it up. Just want a file transferred.
> 
> ...




With Apple to Apple transfers you just “airdrop”, you click airdrop on device A and click accept on device B and it just goes there, not cords or anything needed. I am a real tech dummy, but I find it super easy. 

I want a photo from my girls phone to send to some one else, she simply airdrops it and in 2 seconds I have it in a message, and it sends high quality.

I was at a wine festival rescently, and asked a friend of mine to send a photo to me from their Samsung, and it arrived blurry, they said that their Samsung always reduces quality to send as a text, I just deleted the photo I was that disappointed in the quality.


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## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Yah, that's the point notting was making a few posts back. That Apple products are not for "tech" users, just consumers who like overpriced new tech gadgets.
> 
> Some might just like Apple because it make them feel superior to other "hobby crowd" losers shopping at Dick Smith.
> 
> Ask Buffett whether he think Apple is a tech company or a high-end retailer.




To me, Apple is a Hardware company, software company, content distributor, retailer and gift card company all in one.

I think it’s that intergration that gives them the earning power they currently have, they are earning good margins in each category.


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## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> With Apple to Apple transfers you just “airdrop”, you click airdrop on device A and click accept on device B and it just goes there, not cords or anything needed.
> 
> I want a photo from my girls phone to send to some one else, she simply airdrops it and in 2 seconds I have it in a message, and it sends high quality.
> 
> I was at a wine festival rescently, and asked a friend of mine to send a photo to me from their Samsung, and it arrived blurry, they said that their Samsung always reduces quality to send as a text, I just deleted the photo I was that disappointed in the quality.




Maybe an older model Samsung. Some phones can't even receive photos from iPhones. You'd have to reduce the quality or your friend gotta buy an iPhone 

So yea, iPhone cameras and screens are the best in the industry I reckon. Newer Samsungs are very good though.


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## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> To me, Apple is a Hardware company, software company, content distributor, retailer and gift card company all in one.
> 
> I think it’s that intergration that gives them the earning power they currently have, they are earning good margins in each category.




Yea. Steve Jobs did very well integrating all the parts into an entire eco system. That was quite genius actually. 

Before the iPod, iPhone and those content/app/music distribution... Apple had a very small market. Something like 5% of the PC/computing industry.


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## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Maybe an older model Samsung. Some phones can't even receive photos from iPhones. You'd have to reduce the quality or your friend gotta buy an iPhone
> 
> So yea, iPhone cameras and screens are the best in the industry I reckon. Newer Samsungs are very good though.




No, I meant when the photo gets sent from a Samsung via “text message” the quality is reduced, however when it’s sent from an iPhone text message to another iPhone it automatically sends as an iMessage, and he quality is retained.

Most of my friends and family have iPhones, so I am used to being able to receive high quality photos, so was shocked when the photos coming from the Samsung were such poor quality.

The photos were perfect quality on the persons phone, but rubbish quality once sent via text message.

Apparently Samsung doesn’t have a feature like iMessage, not that my mate knew anyway.


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## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> No, I meant when the photo gets sent from a Samsung via “text message” the quality is reduced, however when it’s sent from an iPhone text message to another iPhone it automatically sends as an iMessage, and he quality is retained.
> 
> Most of my friends and family have iPhones, so I am used to being able to receive high quality photos, so was shocked when the photos coming from the Samsung were such poor quality.
> 
> ...




A couple lines of code could change that one though. 

Just wondering if the EU anti-trust body would want to break up Apple for its practices. But if it does, shareholders would probably get richer out of it, at least in the short term.

Even Bill Gates' MS almost got broken up because its Office, internet explorer etc. was pre-installed or packaged into one. But anti-monopoly laws aren't what they used to be so will probably be business as usual.


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## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> A couple lines of code could change that one though.
> 
> Just wondering if the EU anti-trust body would want to break up Apple for its practices. But if it does, shareholders would probably get richer out of it, at least in the short term.
> 
> Even Bill Gates' MS almost got broken up because its Office, internet explorer etc. was pre-installed or packaged into one. But anti-monopoly laws aren't what they used to be so will probably be business as usual.




Not sure a company with only 10% market share would qualify as a monopoly.


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## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> Not sure a company with only 10% market share would qualify as a monopoly.




Depends on how market share is defined.

I think its AppStore and Google's Play are the only two places mobile users can purchase apps and content right?

They both charge a 30% commission? 

One could argue that if another content distributor were permitted on their platform, app developers and consumers might not have to pay so much. 

Then there's those pre-installed apps they have. Like that torch idea they stole from some developer. Maps. Music player etc.

Heard that Bill Gates' 1990s argument about forcing Windows to carry other developer's app; or not have MS apps pre-installed is like forcing Coke to have a couple cans of Pepsi in each pack... That didn't fly and they got lucky because some technicality forces a retrial then they got a friendlier judge under Bush Jr.

Remember Netscape? It was the best browser back then. Cost a few bucks to buy. Then pretty much go out of business when Windows pre-install their stupid E on it. 

So if you control the platform but doesn't allow others to play on it. It's anti-competitive.


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## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Depends on how market share is defined.
> 
> I think its AppStore and Google's Play are the only two places mobile users can purchase apps and content right?
> 
> ...




Don’t Samsung have their own App Store too? And Microsoft are also doing something.

Also lots of other devices are popping up in the content distribution space, eg Telstra and other network providers are offering devices allow you to sign up to Netflix and Stan etc as part of your internet plan.

Not to mention traditional distribution is still there, and 30% is less margin than Coles and woolies take when Disney use their stores to distribute content via dvd sales, or foxtel or the free to air stations take, cinemas take 50%. 

As for pre installed apps, they are generally free services, and you can download other companies versions on the App Store often for free also.


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## galumay (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> With Apple to Apple transfers you just “airdrop”, you click airdrop on device A and click accept on device B and it just goes there, not cords or anything needed. I am a real tech dummy, but I find it super easy.




Probably goes a long way to explaining why tech & IT people like us are so enthusiastic about the APple eco-system, the old log, "It just works." is a big part of the recipe. 

Along with the integration and compatibility with the software, the other thing thats hard not to love from a tech point of view is the quality of the hardware and the sheer enormity of the effort that goes into design. 

Of course Apple dont always get it right, as good as Airdrop is these days, it was totally dysfunctional for many years! 

The other reason the OSX & Mac environment has been so popular with tech/IT is its so much easier to support, there are comparitively very few hardware variations and the OS and native apps are consistent across most installs. Trouble shooting is orders of magnitude easier. 

Mind you none of that really tells us whether Apple is a great business or not, loving a product and then buying the business can be a short route to ruin! 

The challenge for Apple is whether the business can find something new to leverage in the way that the iPod, then iTunes, then the iPhone have done over the last 20 years. Its interesting that they grew out of each other, so maybe the future is developed out of the iPhone? Many other possibilities though, agglomerated streaming content (replacing spotify, netflix, etc), AR, VR, MR has a lot of focus in R&D, plus all the areas we havent even thought of yet. 

I certainly wouldn't be betting on Apple not being able to unlock a new source of revenue and profit to offset the maturity of the smart phone market.


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## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> Don’t Samsung have their own App Store too? And Microsoft are also doing something.
> 
> Also lots of other devices are popping up in the content distribution space, eg Telstra and other network providers are offering devices allow you to sign up to Netflix and Stan etc as part of your internet plan.
> 
> ...




Yea, Microsoft is doing... something... with Nokia. I guess they're into Nokia for the patents the way IBM get a cut from many of the today's internet businesses.

Don't know, I thought Google have their Play and Apple their AppStore. Aside from those, I don't think mobile users can get their apps or content in many other ways. 

So if Bezos wanted to sell content, I'd imagine they can't do it without going through those two other stores.

I think MS and its anti-trust fight back in the 90s set precedents against pre-installation of apps as not anti-competitive. Personally I think it should be... but then users, myself included, will just click and play instead of bothering to find something else if it's already there.


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## luutzu (5 August 2018)

galumay said:


> Probably goes a long way to explaining why tech & IT people like us are so enthusiastic about the APple eco-system, the old log, "It just works." is a big part of the recipe.
> 
> Along with the integration and compatibility with the software, the other thing thats hard not to love from a tech point of view is the quality of the hardware and the sheer enormity of the effort that goes into design.
> 
> ...




What kind of a "techie" get a kick out of a tech that "just works"? 

That'd be like debugging a computer by dusting it off and keeping it clear of spiders and other literal bugs.


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## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Yea, Microsoft is doing... something... with Nokia. I guess they're into Nokia for the patents the way IBM get a cut from many of the today's internet businesses.
> 
> Don't know, I thought Google have their Play and Apple their AppStore. Aside from those, I don't think mobile users can get their apps or content in many other ways.
> 
> ...




You can download google play in the Apple App Store, no reason amazon couldn’t also create an app and sell content through it. 

Also, Samsung has its own content distribution, so it’s not just google and Apple.


----------



## Value Collector (5 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> What kind of a "techie" get a kick out of a tech that "just works"?
> 
> That'd be like debugging a computer by dusting it off and keeping it clear of spiders and other literal bugs.



A smart one.


----------



## notting (5 August 2018)

A Muppet being gouged at every turn, who doesn't see the walls built all around him and the world of things he could easily do is the further-est thing from -



Value Collector said:


> A smart one.




Like a North Korean celebrating how the Great Leader made the Gods cry because it's snowing.
YOU DON'T NEED AN 'ECOSYSTEM' within an ecosystem!!!!!. What a joke.  The internet and everything attached to it is the ecosystem. You can sync everything without Apple charging you to not be able to do that but having them set it up for you to keep you in their wading pool in the middle of the fricken ocean!!!


----------



## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> A smart one.




A techie or a latte sipping YUP? 

Nothing wrong with buying a consumer electronic and not bother with the user manual because "it just works". But no real tech geek get a kick out of plug and play dude.


----------



## galumay (5 August 2018)

notting said:


> You can sync everything without Apple charging you to not be able to do that but having them set it up for you to keep you in their wading pool in the middle of the fricken ocean!!!




Maybe you can, but millions of people see it as an inconsequential charge for a significant convenience, if you dont see it that way its fine, no one is forcing you to use the Apple ecosystem.


----------



## luutzu (5 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> You can download google play in the Apple App Store, no reason amazon couldn’t also create an app and sell content through it.
> 
> Also, Samsung has its own content distribution, so it’s not just google and Apple.




Samsung runs on Android, a google mobile OS. As far as I know, Samsung don't have their own app store. It's all through Google's Play.


----------



## notting (5 August 2018)

galumay said:


> Maybe you can, but millions of people see it as an inconsequential charge for a significant convenience, if you dont see it that way its fine, no one is forcing you to use the Apple ecosystem.




No problem just don't call it 'smart.'
Like getting anything I want from anybody or device (apart Iphones) on a USB stick plugging that into my phone and loading it on to my phones 400G SD card that costs nothing.  Very convenient.
In earlier times you couldn't even watch videos on mainstream news sites on your i phone when you could on Android devices. It wasn't' until they started openly mocking Apple for it that Apple changed it. Apple wanted to restrict you to their video format so they could monopolies your news and even internet feed too. They gave up on that wall!!


----------



## luutzu (5 August 2018)

galumay said:


> Maybe you can, but millions of people see it as an inconsequential charge for a significant convenience, if you dont see it that way its fine, no one is forcing you to use the Apple ecosystem.




"inconsequential charge" LOL 

Sounds like your business interest is talking rather than common sense dude.

A set of earphone that dangles round your ears costs how much? And I bet it sounds really great hanging lose like it's designed to fall off and not break or goes missing, at all.


----------



## luutzu (5 August 2018)

notting said:


> No problem just don't call it 'smart.'
> Like getting anything I want from anybody or device (apart Iphones) on a USB stick plugging that into my phone and loading it on to my phones 400G SD card that costs nothing.  Very convenient.
> In earlier times you couldn't even watch videos on mainstream news sites on your i phone when you could on Android devices. It wasn't' until they started openly mocking Apple for it that Apple changed it. Apple wanted to restrict you their video format so they could monopolies your news and even internet feed too. They gave up on that wall!!




Can't become a trillion dollar company without having a few loyal idiots.


----------



## notting (5 August 2018)

Hang on a sec I just have to charge my earphones, again..
You know I can't plug anything else into it only this $200 pair. Shi7 wher'd it go?
Got my little pody pod in my pocket for that too.


----------



## luutzu (5 August 2018)




----------



## galumay (5 August 2018)

notting said:


> Hang on a sec I just have to charge my earphones, again..
> You know I can't plug anything else into it only this $200 pair. Shi7 wher'd it go?
> Got my little pody pod in my pocket for that too.




Again, your frustration is genuine, but the rest of us dont feel it. No one is forcing you to play in the Apple pond. 

Does the business model work though? Because thats actually what we are considering. For mine it remains a very compelling and high conviction investment. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but for now I continue to hold.


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Samsung runs on Android, a google mobile OS. As far as I know, Samsung don't have their own app store. It's all through Google's Play.




As far as I can see they are separate distribution platforms, and as I said you can use google play on an apple device, so there is no monolpoly there.


----------



## notting (6 August 2018)

There is no frustration from my side.  It's more like disbelief and amazement at how stupid people really are and how stupid the media and culture is also in just following along with it. (from a consumer and life style point of view)
Yes, the business model is great.  How could you argue with it from an investment point of view?  It's as good as it gets and continuing to hold is the thing to do at this stage of the game for sure.
It's important to remember that SJs original vision was to take advantage of the ordinary Jo, not to cater to the elite or the rational. The idea was to make it simplistic and easy. That's what it is and that's where the big market and money is. Credit for the business model.  There really is a sucker born every minute so why not feed them something so suck on and make a killing.
PS It's interesting how Wozniak is still alive and that Steve Jobs is, well, dead.
You're only as rich as what you actually made do out of your wealth, no matter what the numbers say!
The richest mode of all is giving from the heart with sincere wish to make anthers life easier/better. Perhaps that's why people love their children so much and say they are the most important things in their lives, despite the fact they are the worst investment in the world as far as money goes.


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> A techie or a latte sipping YUP?
> 
> Nothing wrong with buying a consumer electronic and not bother with the user manual because "it just works". But no real tech geek get a kick out of plug and play dude.




Most people are there for the content, rather than tech for tech sake.

I don’t want to be wasting time fiddling with things, adjusting, I want to get to my content as easily and seemlessly as I can, I think that’s what people pay for.

I am not saying hobbyists etc don’t exist, sure their is people that love servicing their car etc, but most people just want the car to work, have the cup holders the right size and in the right place, have heated seats etc.

I read an article the other day that said testing showed the latest Samsung phone was 10% faster than the iPhone, but straight away I thought to my self, an intuitive user friendly navigation platform would blow the 0.1 second I would save having a Samsung if it takes me 10 seconds to click the button due to poor software.


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> As far as I can see they are separate distribution platforms, and as I said you can use google play on an apple device, so there is no monolpoly there.




Not sure that you can run Android apps on an Apple OS. But then I use maybe 10% of my phones anyway, so all the useless stuff are just there to take up bandwidth and memory.


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> Most people are there for the content, rather than tech for tech sake.
> 
> I don’t want to be wasting time fiddling with things, adjusting, I want to get to my content as easily and seemlessly as I can, I think that’s what people pay for.
> 
> ...




Yea, I have nothing against consumers using Macs and Apple products; or any products that makes them happy, serve their purpose. That's what all tools are for. 

Just don't call a mac an IT techie environment like what's his face did. It make very bored people laugh. 


An Apple product, apparently, works seamlessly with other Apple products. So the consumer gotta buy all of their gear from them to enjoy the benefit (and price gouging... wait, price gouging comes with each purchase ).

For someone who might like an iPhone but doesn't have a damn MacBook or Macintosh PC, doing the simplest of things take a long, long while. Or not possible at all.

Don't other people download music and docos from YouTube and other places all the time? Try getting them into the iPhone. What, gotta pay Apple for things people can get for free now? 

So in that sense, it's not really a car that just work. It's car that works great if you drive on Mac-only roads, using Mac-approved everything.


----------



## notting (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> So in that sense, it's not really a car that just work. It's car that works great if you drive on Mac-only roads, using Mac-approved everything.




Like the forced use of their cloud, forcing you to use up masses of data that you don't need to use on Android cause the phone can handle it for a 10th of the price in storage cards or just transferring what ever you want to PC without having to jump through hoops and use a peace of garbage like syncing fricken Itunes.
Having to Log in all time to upgrade, get an app or do fricken anything. Forcing you to upgrade when you don't need or want to by pestering you every day and insisting you affirm 'I will do it tomorrow,' rather than just telling them to Fuc3 off. There is nothing seamless about any of this it's a total pain in the arse.  All because they want you locked in there jail and taking you where they want you to go with the way you are using the device not the way that best suits you.
Even the recordings you do have to be emailed to yourself in order to get them from say your phone to your MAC or PC.  Itunes is the biggest dog of a program a terrible peace of software, that screws around with you all the time with stuff you actually own but never do because in order for Apple to cut a deal with the music companies and get the music on their phones ,they sold out their customers freedom to genuinely own and put the music on what ever they want to even though Apple users have paid for it!!! It's all locked into Apples  'ecosystem' and there are countless cases of Muppets who lose all their music  and videos, even the ones they made!!! and don't know how to get it back!!
I could go on and on and on and on.  In short I just say NEVER BUY A MAC anything!

It's pathetic.

PS Jailbreak has been a very popular non Apple App to get out of it to some extent but Apple keep coming up with ways to stop that too.  WOW what a world of service it isn't!
Seamless my butt!


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Yea, I have nothing against consumers using Macs and Apple products; or any products that makes them happy, serve their purpose. That's what all tools are for.
> 
> Just don't call a mac an IT techie environment like what's his face did. It make very bored people laugh.
> 
> ...




I used to be a pc guy, I thought I was saving money buying a “cheaper” pc rather than “expensive” Mac, I can tell you, that was false economy, when you work out all the software you had to purchase for the pc that comes included with the Mac, and time saved organizing photos etc, the after sales support, Mac is pretty good value for money.

I understand a lot of people just don’t get it, but a enough people do to make Mac know worth $1 Trillion.

Anyway, I think this is a bit like the old ford vs holden, it’s funny to me that so many Samsung users seem to have a real bee in the bonnet against apple products, they always seem to be negative and “against Apple” and apple users, meanwhile Apple users are just over here enjoying an ecosystem that works, doing the things we pick up our phones and computers and TVs to do.

Of course you can nit pick but in reality, I probably would never want to return to the bad old days of my PC use, I wouldn’t touch a Samsung phone again.


----------



## notting (6 August 2018)

I have Macs all around me the really expensive screens and fricken Thunderbolt fricken backup box over wireless and all the BS and I NEVER USE THEM EVEN THOUGH I TOTALLY CAN!!!!! i Always use my PCs and I have three I phones in the draw right next to me and I always use my Android devices.  There all set to go and can all do what I need them to for 'most common' use things. Macs are limited for the more sophisticated activities I get up to on that as well not being appealing for anything basic either.
So don't give me your BS sucker testimony.
It's a choice I make every moment of every day even for simple tasks.  When you're a genuine tech guy with abundance overflowing.  That's a real test not some BS about how you eventually got sucked in during a weaker moment and decided to switch because there must be something good about it, or what ever glamor moment where you lost your sense of things amidst the ritzy dazzle populist charade.
Now you feel too confused to go back, it's just not worth it, Oh but then what about all your stuff on it? Gets just a bit hard don't it!? You'd feel pretty dumb about the money you spent too and going back on that so carry on, Fool.
So carry on with your attempts to try to still feel smart about it
It's not a Holdem Ford thing that is so moronic.


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

notting said:


> .
> So don't give me your BS sucker testimony.
> It's a choice I make every moment of every day even for simple tasks.  When you're a genuine tech guy with abundance overflowing.  That's a real test not some BS about how you eventually got sucked in during a weaker moment and decided to switch because there must be something good about it, or what ever glamor moment where you lost your sense of things amidst the ritzy dazzle populist charade.
> Now you feel too confused to go back, it's just not worth it, Oh but then what about all your stuff on it? Gets just a bit hard don't it!? You'd feel pretty dumb about the money you spent too and going back on that so carry on, Fool.
> ...



I rest my Case the anti iPhone crowd always seem so mad that other people enjoy using their apple products and get value from them, I don’t get it, if you are happy with your setup why waste time trying to trash talk another system which obviously ship loads of people are also happy with 

I mean if it makes you feel like a bigger “techie” buy all means do what you want, but that’s not where most of the market find value.


----------



## notting (6 August 2018)

Most people I shine a light on with regard to their Apple products especially the I phones are deeply grateful and ask me if they can come to me when they are going to get a new phone!!
They are usually emphatically enthusiastic in agreement, when you point out the traps and gouging etc.
They are very grateful for having been liberate when the time comes too.

Then every now and then you get these  passive aggressive Apple users in denial.
They go to extraordinary lengths to cling to all the poses they struck whilst strutting around with their clownware.
The ones with the Apple watches are too tragic you almost can't look at them for embarrassment, let alone bring it up, unless their so rich it's just another thing for the day and can share the joke with you.
The ones lining up in the stores for days to be the 'first' to get the new Iphone, you know the one being released in a all the other shops on the same day and for the rest of the year, it's not like they are grand final tickets,) and look at all the bunnies lined up behind him!!!.  Linging up like this when they are all ready being sold in other places - these are the ones that get 'clapped by the apple staff' as they go in the door OMG 

interview with an idiot I mean a hero - 



Wow your interviewing this guy and putting it on TV. No wonder conventional media have all lost billions and billions over the time the smart phone became a thing!!!
How many advertising dollars did they just lose with that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=pink+floyd+sheep&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b


----------



## galumay (6 August 2018)

Notting, I think you need to have a look at your posting language and consider whether you are really adding any value with the relentless denigration and name calling towards those who have a different view to yourself. 

I totally understand if you prefer to use other ecosystems for your computing and online needs, but its quite unecessary and actually rude to continually call people stupid because we prefer to work with an ecosystem we much prefer and that we find greatly more effective and efficient. 

Its odd because usually I find your posts interesting and informative, but on this subject you seem to be filled with a red mist of rage totally out of proportion to the subject. 

Its already hard enough for me to follow this thread with one poster on ignore, I hope I dont have to block your contributions as well!


----------



## notting (6 August 2018)

galumay said:


> Notting, I think you need to have a look at your posting language and consider whether you are really adding any value with the relentless denigration and name calling towards those who have a different view to yourself.
> 
> I totally understand if you prefer to use other ecosystems for your computing and online needs, but its quite unecessary and actually rude to continually call people stupid because we prefer to work with an ecosystem we much prefer and that we find greatly more effective and efficient.
> 
> ...




Thanks! fair enough. I'll shut up. Sometimes it's hard to know when your going to far on the net. Sorry.


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> I used to be a pc guy, I thought I was saving money buying a “cheaper” pc rather than “expensive” Mac, I can tell you, that was false economy, when you work out all the software you had to purchase for the pc that comes included with the Mac, and time saved organizing photos etc, the after sales support, Mac is pretty good value for money.
> 
> I understand a lot of people just don’t get it, but a enough people do to make Mac know worth $1 Trillion.
> 
> ...




People buy apps? On a PC? Who? 

Apple Inc is worth a lot of money. Just I'm not sure that $1T is it.

I don't have brand loyalty. I'm fine with a Samsung now. If MS ever managed to work out their phone, I'll try it too. 

I just don't like having to buy into the entire eco-system where everything have to be one brand else you'd have to spend lots of time, and money, to get it to work with other things you have. That's just asking to be price gouged. 

Take the mac laptop I'm trying to reinstall. I erased the iOS completely so to try and get an app on it to reboot, I'd need another Mac. Lucky my wife got a MacAir, but if she doesn't I'd have to go see some IT genius at the Apple store. And i'm pretty sure it won't be at mate's rate either. 

I'll probably give her my old Dell laptop. It weights a tone, ugly grey. But she can do real work on it though. 

Not saying you can't do work on the Macs, just I haven't tried installing any sort app more complicated than Youtube


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

galumay said:


> Notting, I think you need to have a look at your posting language and consider whether you are really adding any value with the relentless denigration and name calling towards those who have a different view to yourself.
> 
> I totally understand if you prefer to use other ecosystems for your computing and online needs, but its quite unecessary and actually rude to continually call people stupid because we prefer to work with an ecosystem we much prefer and that we find greatly more effective and efficient.
> 
> ...




I thought he was fine. Grow thicker skin dude. The guy was just upset at how stupid people can be at being gouged and lead into groupies. 

Some might genuinely like Apple products because it suit their need. Most got into it then find out they've been had.


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> People buy apps? On a PC? Who?




I haven’t used a pc in years, but when I did I know that I had to buy even simple software such as excel and word, that stuff comes free on Mac. 

Managing photos etc on Mac is a dream, and again that photo software is free, to get all the same photo management features on a pc I would have to buy or download some third party software, there is value to having things just work out of the box.

I could continue to list off benefits, but am not much interested, as I said if you want to be a “tech guy” go for it, but I am not interested in fiddling, and am happy to pay a bit more to avoid the fiddling and get a system that just makes things easy.

As I said, these devices are not the source of enjoyment for me, the actual content is.


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> The guy was just upset at how stupid people can be at being gouged and lead into groupies.
> 
> .




That’s the thing, if you think people using Apple products are just stupid and groupies, I think you are just wrong, and you come across as a condescending bitter person.

I don’t own any Apple shares outside my Berkshire holding and the Index I own (which also makes me a share holder of Samsung, google and Microsoft), and I am not the type of guy that buys tech for any other reason than I want it to work for me.

So I am not a “groupie” and I don’t think I am stupid, I own apple products because out of all the devices I have owned in the past including 2 Samsung phones, nothing has been as user friendly and seamless, that’s why I buy them.

I don’t want to spend days learning how to work new devices, I have some much more stuff to learn in other areas, if that means I am not in you “techy club” so be it, I don’t actually care. 

I own devices for the purpose of using them as a tool, not for the sake of it, when I want to watch Ant Man, I want to get there in as few clicks as possible.


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> I haven’t used a pc in years, but when I did I know that I had to buy even simple software such as excel and word, that stuff comes free on Mac.
> 
> Managing photos etc on Mac is a dream, and again that photo software is free, to get all the same photo management features on a pc I would have to buy or download some third party software, there is value to having things just work out of the box.
> 
> ...




How does Words and Excel comes free on with a Mac? My wife got one and all she had was their notePad. That's not the same as a proper word processor where you write documents. 

Windows come with those basics too. Their paint and photo app are getting better. You can do basic photo editing/cropping and stuff. But I'm sure that on the Mac, it'd be like on the Windows where to do more specific professional work, you'd need to install apps specialising in it. 

Stuff like CorelDraw for graphic works; Adobe's suite etc. you got to buy and install specifically. I don't know the stats but I think there's a lot more app developers building for the PC/IBM/Windows than the mac platform. That's where people do "real technical work". 

But then the world is moving to the internet so maybe those developers will, if not already, be moving all their stuff there. Then everyone can just use Macs, click and play.


----------



## McLovin (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> How does Words and Excel comes free on with a Mac? My wife got one and all she had was their notePad. That's not the same as a proper word processor where you write documents.




Numbers and Pages come free with Apple. I don't use either. I've used Excel for too long to try and learn a new spreadsheet app. For writing and note taking I use Evernote, which I love. If I need to write a letter, then I still use word, especially if it's going back and forth with other people just because I'm familiar with marking up changes accepting rejecting changes and all that stuff. I'm sure I could learn how to do it in Pages, but for what Office 365 costs/year I can't be bothered.


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> That’s the thing, if you think people using Apple products are just stupid and groupies, I think you are just wrong, and you come across as a condescending bitter person.
> 
> I don’t own any Apple shares outside my Berkshire holding and the Index I own (which also makes me a share holder of Samsung, google and Microsoft), and I am not the type of guy that buys tech for any other reason than I want it to work for me.
> 
> ...




I didn't say that, didn't even say that notting said it. 

I've always said that if people like Apple or anything, that's great. Good for them. They're very well designed hardware, high quality stuff. Just that some people might get into it not being aware of other options that are a lot more economical, flexible... and one they would rather have if they weren't so suckered into all the hype.

I mean, the quality might not be the same, but if those people know, they wouldn't want an Apple.


----------



## Value Collector (6 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> How does Words and Excel comes free on with a Mac? My wife got one and all she had was their notePad. That's not the same as a proper word processor where you write documents.
> 
> Windows come with those basics too. Their paint and photo app are getting better. You can do basic photo editing/cropping and stuff. But I'm sure that on the Mac, it'd be like on the Windows where to do more specific professional work, you'd need to install apps specialising in it.
> 
> ...




As McLovin said, the Mac comes with pages and numbers and other programs that do all the Microsoft office stuff, for free.

So when you buy that “cheap” pc vs the “expensive” Mac you have to factor all the added perks that come with the Mac.

To me there is more than enough value there to justify it.

My mother in law was actually having heaps of trouble managing her photos on her pc, she had made a real mess of it because he pc allowed her to keep uploading the same files more than once and didn’t sort them etc.

So my wife tried to help her out and sort the mess out, she actually said “this is why I am never getting another pc”, we are just used to the Mac photo software (which again is free) doing all sorts of little things that help manage the photos, until you use it you probably won’t understand.

But long story short we upgraded her to a Mac and we had her photos and videos all sorted into categories will no double ups in like 2 hours, after she had been struggling with it for years.


----------



## notting (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> So when you buy that “cheap” pc vs the “expensive” Mac you have to factor all the added perks that come with the Mac.
> 
> To me there is more than enough value there to justify it.
> 
> ...





I'm glad I left.
It's turned into an episode of The Office.


----------



## luutzu (6 August 2018)

Value Collector said:


> As McLovin said, the Mac comes with pages and numbers and other programs that do all the Microsoft office stuff, for free.
> 
> So when you buy that “cheap” pc vs the “expensive” Mac you have to factor all the added perks that come with the Mac.
> 
> ...




Your mother in law uses the mac, she love the mac. I take it your mother in law isn't a "techie". Mac users are therefore not.... 

My brother bought a nice mackbook for my dad too. It's probably the world's most expensive small-screen tv 'cause that's all he uses it for. And he knows how to use a PC to do his other work. 

Alright, that's not fair. We all get used to certain tools and the Macs are pretty. 

but on the cost/benefit. You're assuming everyone is as honest as yourself, or myself , and buy all their apps and movies. 

I read a story a few years ago where some musician lost all her original music on the Mac because iTune doesn't recognised that she bought it. So they deleted it. 

That's no good. On so many level.


----------



## greggles (3 January 2019)

Apple shares have been having a rough time in the last few months, plummeting from a high of $233 in early October to a low of $146 in late December. Although it last closed at $157, after market trading saw AAPL beaten down to $146 and it is likely that there will be further share price weakness in the short term.

Tim Cook has written a letter to investors downgrading projections and explaining that disappointing iPhone revenue in China and other emerging markets is responsible for the vast majority of revenue decline.  Customers taking advantage of significantly reduced pricing for iPhone battery replacements following revelations that Apple was intentionally slowing down older iPhones was also blamed for weakness in iPhone revenue.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 January 2019)

From a consumer perspective Apple products have a distinct advantage in that they "just work".

Looking at prices for their latest phones however, well I'm not even slightly surprised that sales are down. Smartphones are now a relatively mature technology which has achieved market saturation in any market where people can afford to buy one. The idea that they can keep raising prices and have consumers replacing 1 or 2 year old devices with a new one doesn't really work anymore.


----------



## Darc Knight (3 January 2019)

luutzu said:


> People buy apps? On a PC? Who?




I know a free one www.danginvestor.com


----------



## notting (4 January 2019)

notting said:


> Most people I shine a light on with regard to their Apple products especially the I phones are deeply grateful and ask me if they can come to me when they are going to get a new phone!!
> They are usually emphatically enthusiastic in agreement, when you point out the traps and gouging etc.
> They are very grateful for having been liberate when the time comes too.
> 
> ...





Still loving Apple everyone, anyone?


----------



## galumay (4 January 2019)

notting said:


> Still loving Apple everyone, anyone?




Still feeling the love here @notting


----------



## bellenuit (31 December 2019)

For the last year or so I have been selling AAPL Covered Calls with a strike price about USD 10 above what the underlying is currently trading at and with an exercise date about 12 days ahead (I usually sell on a Monday for an exercise date of Friday of the following week). These are usually valued at about USD 0.50 or so.

Tonight these are trading at about USD 1.70. For example, AAPL is about USD 287.22 and Jan 10 297.5 Calls are trading at 1.60 or so.

Is there something special about the Year End being in between to cause those options to sell at three times what I normally would expect to get?


----------



## Dona Ferentes (26 August 2020)

*The about to be splitting of Apple shares via a reverse four for one division has triggered a historic change in the Dow Jones average – *oil giant Exxon Mobil is out, as is drug group, Pfizer and defence manufacturer Raytheon Technologies. Cloud-based customer relations management software group Salesforce replaces Exxon Mobil in something of a surprise, biotech drugmaker, Amgen replaces Pfizer and industrial group, Honeywell will replace Raytheon.

The Apple split will have a dramatic impact on the ranking of the companies in the 30 stock Dow. Apple will fall from Number one to Number 17 because the Dow is a price-weighted index). The top three stocks will become UnitedHealth Group Inc., Home Depot, and Amgen in that order.

.... S&P Dow Jones said the changes were “prompted” by Apple’s four for one split which happens after the close this Friday (Ie from trading next Monday) will reduce the index’s tech-sector weighting in the Dow, hence the rebalancing.

“The announced changes help offset that reduction,” S&P Dow Jones said in a statement. “They also help diversify the index by removing overlap between companies of similar scope and adding new types of businesses that better reflect the American economy.”

Apple joined the Dow back in 2015 not long after a seven for one stock split.

“The changes won’t disrupt the level of the index,” S&P Dow Jones said in a statement. “The divisor used to calculate the index from the components’ prices on their respective home exchanges will be changed prior to the opening on Aug. 31, 2020.”

While that is true, American market analysts point out that there is another, very good reason, for Exxon Mobil to be punted – underperformance. Its shares traded for more than $US104 in June 2014, against $US41 today. Even taking dividends into account, it has underperformed the Dow since 2014 by 21%.....

Apple shares closed Tuesday at $US499.30 valuing it at $US2.15 trillion. It hit an all-time high of $US515.14 last Friday in trading. If the $US500 level holds, the theoretical value of the new shares post-split will be around $US125


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## galumay (26 August 2020)

I have held since 2014, a 5 bagger for me plus the not insignificant FX gains. Its hard to believe its hit $500.


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## Dona Ferentes (16 May 2022)

_Forget the crypto crash, the most worrying signal from financial markets came from the stock widely considered among the safest in the world._

Last week, shares in Apple fell almost 5 per cent, taking its year-to-date losses to 19.2 per cent. The slump – which would have been much worse were it not for Wall Street’s dead-cat bounce on Friday night, which helped Apple rise more than 3 per cent – means the tech giant’s stock is now underperforming the S&P 500 for the year.

And with its shares trading at $US147, Apple has a market value of $US2.4 trillion ($3.5 trillion) and is one of the most widely held stocks in the world, accounting for 7 per cent of the S&P 500 and more than 11 per cent of the Nasdaq 100.


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## JohnDe (1 August 2022)

SP is climbing again. As a holder for 2 years, I've recently contemplated selling because my thinking has been that the phone market is saturated and the competition sophisticated. Reading the article below has reminded me that software is the new resource for companies like Apple.



> *Apple already sold everyone an iPhone. Now what?*
> The ubiquitous device is becoming a shop window for the firm’s services
> 
> Fifteen years after its launch, the iPhone “continues to change the world”, said Tim Cook, Apple’s chief executive, as the company reported quarterly earnings on July 28th. It has certainly changed Apple. In an otherwise bumpy week for technology stocks, the world’s most valuable company beat forecasts to report a modest year-on-year increase in revenue. That was in large part thanks to the iPhone, which generated sales of more than $40bn in the latest quarter.
> ...


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