# Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) Stocks - which one and why?



## kenny (10 November 2019)

I'm interested in hearing everyone's views on this sector. 

How does one compare each of them and importantly assess each new entrant as they list with shiny promises?

Openpay Pty Ltd lists soon which is an aggregation of multiple BNPL businesses such as JAM Payments and Evoke Autopay. 

What metrics would be useful to compare them?

When does the consolidation start and the small players get eaten?

Some listed players include;

Afterpay Touch Group Ltd (ASX: APT)
Zip Co Ltd (ASX: Z1P)
Splitit Payments Ltd (ASX: SPT)
FlexiGroup Limited (ASX: FXL)
Quickfee (ASX: QFE)
Sezzle Inc (ASX: SZL)
Unlisted ones include;

Affirm
Klarna partnering with CBA
Latitude
QuadPay
many startups eg Quicka (for tradies), Cloudfloat and PayRight target niches
VISA is trialling their own BNPL offering which will worry SPT holders
Mastercard bought BNPL platform; Vyze in April 2019
Other countries have their own home grown ones eg Singapore's Rely and Grab's Pay Later service.


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## frugal.rock (15 November 2019)

So when you ask for everyone's views, I guess everyone is being polite and saying to each other "you go first..., No no, you go first, I insist. Ladies before gent's etc" 

This " Sector ", am I missing something there? 

I thought Incentiapay owned Latitude... I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time...
Out of your listed list, I have only had dealings with dafterpay and zip. Heard of Split It and maybe something about it doing ok in USA ?
Could be wrong, again...

I have been looking at INP Incentiapay recently and wondering where they went wrong. (they, not me, I don't hold, but it is an interesting beast with some long teeth...and def worthy of consideration)
Maybe it's a case of complacency gone terribly wrong by not keeping up with rapidly changing financial revenue markets, however there seems to be a chance that the current intended shakeup may revive the SP. Time will tell.
Can't help you with any metrics, unless you need it to the millimetre.  Left 20, Right 10, Mark!
F.Rock
PS; Ladies to the left, gent's to the right, chicken pluckers- up here with me! Form an orderly queue to respond.


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## Knobby22 (15 November 2019)

It's a complex area.
I still like Afterpay, Zip is good at what it does, Latitude is a bit pathetic, SPT is just a rather average  app which won't be around in two years,
Karma Could be a big competitor to Afterpay internationally.You can expect more international competitor to Afterpay.
Sezzle is a USA Afterpay clone but I can't see it getting enough market share. Could be wrong.


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## frugal.rock (16 November 2019)

I failed to mention that 2 brokers recently 
updated their recommendations on dafterpay.
Upgraded to buys with targets of $45 thereabouts, one was bell poopers, can't remember the other.
F.Rock


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## Sdajii (16 November 2019)

I bought in and out of APT last year. I did okay, made some money, but certainly would have done a lot better if I held on for the big multibagger. Over the last couple of years I seem to consistently buy at good times and sell at bad times.

APT is at the top of your list, not surprisingly. It's extremely difficult to evaluate, it's not like a cake company where you have relatively fixed overheads, a relatively consistent cost per cake and a sale price, so profits largely depend on sales. It's not like an oil company where you have a cost of production and profits will simply depend on the price of oil. APT could be anything from something which never makes a profit to something which becomes a massive company which is still a hugely profitable blue chip gig in 20 years. There are so many variables. Comparing them to each other is also very difficult. A great deal of future success is already priced into APT, which obviously makes it dangerous, but if you believe in the blue sky scenario of APT, it's still a multibagger from here.


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## Jase-W (31 December 2019)

I like Sezzle who are focusing on the Canadian market.    They all should report excellent customer acquisition and growth over this Christmas period.


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## frugal.rock (3 August 2020)

A lot has changed in this space. 
A lot will change again.
Regulation is set to be pushed hard by "entities" soon enough.
Caution required, as @qldfrog is now famous for saying, 
"It's not all lollipops and candy".

Hoping others can add value to this discussion.


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## jbocker (4 August 2020)

I found @aus_trader made an interesting comment on his selection in the speculative stock portfolio thread about QFE. This was a couple of months ago after reviewing some BNPL companies. Not sure if Aus has anything to elaborate with. (Apologies for being so presumptuous @aus_trader)


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## Austwide (4 August 2020)

My gut feeling.

BNPL's seem to be biting in to the massive CCard market and if successful will be great stocks to own.

I can't see the Visa's etcs sitting back and watching there huge profitable market be taken from them.
I think if Visa offered a BNPL option instead of CC option, its huge worldwide operation would swamp many of these BNPL's. Initially their profits are still upthere and don't want to compete against themselves but I think a time will come when they need to stamp out the opposition.


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## aus_trader (4 August 2020)

jbocker said:


> I found @aus_trader made an interesting comment on his selection in the speculative stock portfolio thread about QFE. This was a couple of months ago after reviewing some BNPL companies. Not sure if Aus has anything to elaborate with. (Apologies for being so presumptuous @aus_trader)




No worries jbocker, I don't mind any questions, I'll answer as best as I can.

I mentioned BNPL sector has been the hottest group of stocks that led the recovery from the huge sell off earlier this year. Quite a few of these stocks made new high's that surpassed pre-Covid high's and rocketed through the 'blue sky' space.

The speed of the surge has slowed and in some of the leaders, there is a little pull back that is happening right now. So I will hold onto QFE in Speculative Stock Portfolio for now and watch what happens. There could be further upside if customers further adapt to BNPL fintech firms in place of Credit Cards for payments...


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## Dona Ferentes (4 August 2020)

aus_trader said:


> I mentioned BNPL sector has been the hottest group of stocks that led the recovery from the huge sell off earlier this year. Quite a few of these stocks made new high's that surpassed pre-Covid highs and rocketed through the 'blue sky' space.
> 
> The speed of the surge has slowed and in some of the leaders, there is a little pull back that is happening right now. ...



hot stocks; as mentioned by @Austwide and others, I too was surprised the Visa & M/Card fightback wasn't there, so the early players got ahead. But there is no real moat apart from First Mover Advantage. apart from the Aussie BNPLers, numerous others exist in other markets. And turning into businesses that make profits, rewarding shareholders when the growth 'consolidates'. And that is the other concern; customers. .. are they going to be loyal and profitable. Consumerism and purchases brought forward can only go so far,

Found this, about APT,  but applies for all of them as they evolve and shake outs loom:
_"Most of the popular focus on Afterpay, which reports its full year results on August 27, and the other buy now, pay later stocks is on top line growth numbers. Revenue is a function of the size of the customer base and merchant network, driven by overall transactions made on the system and the average value of those transactions per user. _

_But more attention is focusing on the bottom line. Investors hone in on the net transaction margin. Essentially, this examines how much the company is making after bad debts, processing costs and funding costs are subtracted from the merchant and late fees revenue. It reflects that, like banks, buy now, pay later profits need to be offset by the customers who don't pay._

_For now, generous government stimulus packages have been back-stopping bad debts and encouraging spending... so bad debt levels at Afterpay, Zip and the other players have remained low. Short repayment cycles and capped spending amounts for new customers help (users can get access to more credit over time after proving themselves)._

_In future results, investors should watch Afterpay's consumer adoption, gross merchant volume and revenue margins and form a view around where these metrics can grow to over the long term We favour Afterpay's simple and free instalment solution, which has a proven track record of rapid consumer adoption upon launch in new geographies, said an analyst_

_This land grab for global scale is forcing the main players into losses, which for now investors are willing to tolerate. They understand there are likely to be only be a few winners globally, and getting to scale requires serious investment in marketing, R&D and staff."_


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## Austwide (10 September 2020)

Austwide said:


> My gut feeling.
> 
> BNPL's seem to be biting in to the massive CCard market and if successful will be great stocks to own.
> 
> ...




I see a banks are starting to offer BNPL
Monthly fees are high

*NAB* has rolled out Australia's first no-interest credit card to hit back at *buy now pay later* (*BNPL*) services. While users will not incur interest on expenses put on the bank's new credit card, StraightUp, a flat monthly fee of up to $20 will be charged for a maximum credit limit of $3,000.


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## jbocker (10 September 2020)

Austwide said:


> I see a banks are starting to offer BNPL
> Monthly fees are high
> 
> *NAB* has rolled out Australia's first no-interest credit card to hit back at *buy now pay later* (*BNPL*) services. While users will not incur interest on expenses put on the bank's new credit card, StraightUp, a flat monthly fee of up to $20 will be charged for a maximum credit limit of $3,000.



That monthly fee sucks and for that limit. I have CCs with no fees and no interest. Just have to set up autopay pay out the closing balance for each month. In one card  I did see a few months ago a capacity to stage payments for a larger bill, I did had a think about what value that was to me, but didn't take it up. I will try to find that detail and review what costs there were I dont recall detail or fees. Maybe it was a guinea pig offer.
Not used a BPNL maybe I will if I buy from Ebay soon.


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## bk1 (10 September 2020)

CBA earlier this year backed Swedish BNPL operator Klarna's entry into the Australian market, providing an alternative to local operators like Afterpay and Zip.

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/cba-backs-buy-now-pay-later-expansion-beyond-retail-552404


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## Dona Ferentes (11 September 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> A lot has changed in this space.
> A lot will change again.
> Regulation is set to be pushed hard by "entities" soon enough.
> Caution required, as @qldfrog is now famous for saying,
> ...



of course, as there is a Klarna association, this needs to be taken in context: from _Matt Comyn, CEO, Commonwealth Bank of Australia Ltd_


> "What the buy now, pay later sector has done well and successfully is convince [merchant] customers ...they are getting more than just the payment, that they are providing an acquisition channel for new customers, they are helping to increase basket size... Businesses are effectively funding the buy now, pay later opportunity for customers”



and







> “[Referring to BNPL] Generally what happens, as industries or products become much larger and popular and usage expands, is there will be more scrutiny on the consequences and vulnerabilities customers may have."


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## bk1 (11 September 2020)

I was thinking more along the lines of bill smoothing and salary smoothing. Has COVID accelerated, or will it accelerate changes in the way the workforce traditionally receives wages.
This is paraphrased from the article i quoted above...


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## jbocker (11 September 2020)

jbocker said:


> In one card I did see a few months ago a capacity to stage payments for a larger bill, I did had a think about what value that was to me, but didn't take it up. I will try to find that detail and review what costs there were I dont recall detail or fees. Maybe it was a guinea pig offer.



It was Westpac Smartplan,  they do allow staged payments but add interest (from what I can determine) if you take up the offer after the standard interest free period. It all gets calculated and agreed. More detail on the site and it is marginal to suggest its a BPNL style offer.


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## over9k (11 September 2020)

Credit cards have had 55 days interest free and the like offers since forever. 

This is not a new concept.


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## frugal.rock (11 September 2020)

Re the banks whining...

Yes, there are certain entities which wish the BNPL industry didn't exist.

I suspect it's mainly the entity's that haven't invested in it from early on.
EG; Westpac have somewhere around 10.9% ownership of Z1P so you don't hear them whinging and whining...


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## jbocker (11 September 2020)

I was referring to the staged payments. The bank offers these on certain (single) larger purchases within your buying list. Its quirky and clunky, was not of interest to me. I thought it was some attempt to smooth payments, but I could be talking horse manure (not uncommon).

Where I can, I schedule out a whole years payments through credit card and have them paid off by a auto deduct from an offset. The shire repayments for properties has been interesting this year, some shires / cities offering no fees or penalty interest and able to pay weekly or monthly for most of the year.
Set it all up once and forget for the rest of the year.
For the more sporadic billing (repair maintenance) I use a different CC but still payoff closing balances by auto deduct.
Download the credit card history and code to different properties / entities with the invoice/receipt (which are property and Date coded). Hand it to the tax man.
Living expenses by debit  card or cash.
Apologies I have digressed....


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## over9k (11 September 2020)

Like I said, this is not a new concept


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## Smurf1976 (11 September 2020)

bk1 said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of bill smoothing and salary smoothing. Has COVID accelerated, or will it accelerate changes in the way the workforce traditionally receives wages.




A different context but I do recall from the last recession (1991) that a lot of "bill smoothing" sort of things appeared.

Those were mostly offered directly by the company to whom the money was payable though. Eg utilities, councils, banks (for existing loan repayments) and so on all came up with options to pay weekly / fortnightly / monthly to match your pay or welfare payment cycle even if that wasn't when payment was actually required.

I can see the basic concept having relevance given the overall economic situation. Main difference is this time it would be electronic, versus last time it was typically a matter of someone paying small amounts of cash regularly, and more likely done via a third party.


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## sptrawler (11 September 2020)

I wasnt a big fan of the sector, but the daughte r that lives with us has embraced it, I am now noticing that she is wanting to spread her share of the bills out.
Before BNPL, she was really one step ahead and embraced paying bills early, so it will be interesting to see how it develops.
I will try to broach the subject, while walking on eggs, it may give an independent insight into the sector.


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## frugal.rock (12 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Before BNPL, she was really one step ahead and embraced paying bills early, so it will be interesting to see how it develops.
> I will try to broach the subject, while walking on eggs, it may give an independent insight into the sector



Another dad joke....lol.
Tell her you're doing Market Research and would she like to participate with 3 minutes of her time and how you would really appreciate it. 

My eldest child, (13 year old daughter) told me the other day she isn't going to call me daddy anymore, just dad... 
didn't bother me greatly as I hoped she would start growing out of it...

However, I replied with the obligatory response of "I'm gonna miss being called daddy", to which her response was "suck it up, princess".


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## MovingAverage (12 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I wasnt a big fan of the sector, but the daughte r that lives with us has embraced it, I am now noticing that she is wanting to spread her share of the bills out.
> Before BNPL, she was really one step ahead and embraced paying bills early, so it will be interesting to see how it develops.
> I will try to broach the subject, while walking on eggs, it may give an independent insight into the sector.




Hi @sptrawler, I'm curious...what is it about these BNPL services that your daughter likes? To be honest I do not understand why consumers are embracing BNPL (probably because I'm too old to understand modern consumer behavior). You don't have to look very hard to find a no fee credit card that gives you loyalty points and around 55 days interest free--that's old school I know. Not that I've looked very hard but I've never heard a compelling theory that explains why consumers are flocking to BNPL providers.


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## jbocker (12 September 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Not that I've looked very hard but I've never heard a compelling theory that explains why consumers are flocking to BNPL providers.



Yes I am another set of old ears wanting to know. Buy Now Pain Later. I expect it is still BUY NOW has always been a huge drawcard. PAIN LATER is probably where its has mostly been worked, a little to a lot less pain.


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## jbocker (12 September 2020)

Back to forum question. Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) Stocks - which one and why

Part of what I liked about Quickfee (QFE). It is professional market specific - accountants and legal services, where fees have to an extent been paid by cheques (which surprised me). Amongst many other methods of payment I daresay there probably was some credit allowed with established clients, that has had it risks escalate recently. So  the issues with risk, chasing payments and with writing handling cashing cheques is being removed for both parties. Covid was the catalyst for change.  Through Quickfee the service provider gets their fee much faster with much less admin and with much more certainty. The client among other things gets options to fund costs, pay now or over an extended period.
The attraction is beyond the Covid, it is unlikely the payments will return to previous systems like a cheque system and a system has been gained that has better access and management to contracts and invoicing for all concerned.
A little more than simply BNPL. Hopefully a lot more than what I have gleaned. DYOR.
Is it a finite market? It has made some good inroads in the US and potentially has a fair way to go (I think it originated in Aus). Could it be expanded to other professional services? I don't know.


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## aus_trader (12 September 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> Another dad joke....lol.
> Tell her you're doing Market Research and would she like to participate with 3 minutes of her time and how you would really appreciate it.
> 
> My eldest child, (13 year old daughter) told me the other day she isn't going to call me daddy anymore, just dad...
> ...



Wait till you eavesdrop on them talking to their friends about "my old man says..."


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## aus_trader (12 September 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Hi @sptrawler, I'm curious...what is it about these BNPL services that your daughter likes? To be honest I do not understand why consumers are embracing BNPL (probably because I'm too old to understand modern consumer behavior). You don't have to look very hard to find a no fee credit card that gives you loyalty points and around 55 days interest free--that's old school I know. Not that I've looked very hard but I've never heard a compelling theory that explains why consumers are flocking to BNPL providers.




It's been no secret that we have become a nation of "must have now" when it comes to pretty much everything. It doesn't just stop at the retail/online checkout but goes onto cars and houses.

BNPL stocks have had a massive run and I am actually surprised how far they have run. Didn't catch many although I got involved in a couple of them and made a bit of coin , so not complaining. The latest position that closed for just over 100% gain is the stock @jbocker mentioned above QuickFee Ltd (*QFE*), details of buy/sell dates in *Speculative Stock Portfolio*.

There is a lot of stocks in this space and all competing for the market share, so I don't know if there is some saturation happening. The latest stock added to ASX in that space is Laybuy Holdings Ltd (*LBY*).


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## peter2 (12 September 2020)

Paypal have announced that they are entering the BNPL market with their Pay in 4 service. They're planning on asking the merchants to pay less than the 4-5% Afterpay charges. The presence of large multinational corporations will squeeze the margins.


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## Smurf1976 (12 September 2020)

jbocker said:


> The attraction is beyond the Covid, it is unlikely the payments will return to previous systems like a cheque system and a system has been gained that has better access and management to contracts and invoicing for all concerned.



Sort of related but one thing I'm aware of is pressure on business, especially large business, to pay invoices promptly.

Government has had that policy for a while, I'm aware of one government organisation which automatically applies a penalty to themselves if they pay late, but there seems to be a lot of pressure mounting on big business to do the same.

This may lead to a greater move away from payment on invoices in favour of more direct methods of payment is my thinking. If so, well that's either credit cards or some other platform realistically since cash tends to be hugely problematic for that purpose.

So I can see a potential corporate market for some of these services as well as consumers. That would be especially so for anyone who comes up with someting which suits internal accounting and management control far better than credit cards with their monthly statements do. Eg set it up that the relevant manager automatically gets a text when the office junior spends more than $x and things like that.

There's definitely pressure in that direction though, indeed there's some talk of publicly revealing the payment processing times of listed companies in a "name and shame" sort of way.


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## aus_trader (13 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Sort of related but one thing I'm aware of is pressure on business, especially large business, to pay invoices promptly.
> 
> Government has had that policy for a while, I'm aware of one government organisation which automatically applies a penalty to themselves if they pay late, but there seems to be a lot of pressure mounting on big business to do the same.
> 
> ...



That's actually a great idea. I think the payment processing times of some of the large organisations are horrendous  

Some of the larger firms and Govt organisations have like 5 levels of hierarchy that paperwork has to go through before payments for an invoice is approved, taking weeks and months !


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## Dona Ferentes (13 September 2020)

aus_trader said:


> That's actually a great idea. I think the payment processing times of some of the large organisations are horrendous
> 
> Some of the larger firms and Govt organisations have like 5 levels of hierarchy that paperwork has to go through before payments for an invoice is approved, taking weeks and months !



still there is the need for checks and balances. A lot of criminal activity relating to false invoices. (old school phishing)


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## aus_trader (13 September 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> still there is the need for checks and balances. A lot of criminal activity relating to false invoices. (old school phishing)



True, who's that celebrity that couldn't come up with where a lot of his charity money went.

So, independent auditing and accounting would need to be done to iron out such practices.


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## over9k (13 September 2020)

aus_trader said:


> It's been no secret that we have become a nation of "must have now" when it comes to pretty much everything. It doesn't just stop at the retail/online checkout but goes onto cars and houses.
> 
> BNPL stocks have had a massive run and I am actually surprised how far they have run. Didn't catch many although I got involved in a couple of them and made a bit of coin , so not complaining. The latest position that closed for just over 100% gain is the stock @jbocker mentioned above QuickFee Ltd (*QFE*), details of buy/sell dates in *Speculative Stock Portfolio*.
> 
> There is a lot of stocks in this space and all competing for the market share, so I don't know if there is some saturation happening. The latest stock added to ASX in that space is Laybuy Holdings Ltd (*LBY*).



I know that AFT and Z1P have dropped a fair bit lately, but so has everything. 

It's worth noting that the incumbents have some pretty big contracts and brand recognition/mindshare in the consumer, so they're not going to be dislodged overnight. 

Like I said before, credit cards have had those 55 days interest free etc etc policies for ages, and yet afterpay & zip pay have become the successes that they have anyway. 

I also can't see consumers wanting to make 30 different post-pay type accounts with a billion credit checks etc etc, it's just too much of a pain in the ass. 

This isn't to say that there isn't going to be *some* kind of effect, but I'd say this is one of those "rumours of their demise has been greatly exaggerated" kind of moments.


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## MrChow (13 September 2020)

79 companies (according to an ASX screener) have doubled in share price in the past 12 months.
- 67 of them are unprofitable.
- 12 of them are profitable.

So in determining which BNPL to buy, to me it's not about company fundamentals.   It's about human behaviour, stories and sentiment, which I have no way of reliably tabulating and analysing.


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## aus_trader (13 September 2020)

over9k said:


> This isn't to say that there isn't going to be *some* kind of effect, but I'd say this is one of those "rumours of their demise has been greatly exaggerated" kind of moments.



Agree. They have made a stance in the consumer market place and they'll fight to let go of their share of the pie to competitors and newcomers.

But as @MrChow said, there will be winners and losers and some of the companies that have huge future multiples baked in may experience a correction of some sort if those future expectations are not met. Winners could continue to do well...


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## over9k (13 September 2020)

I bet the next earnings reports (and especially the ones after xmas) are bloody good


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## aus_trader (13 September 2020)

over9k said:


> I bet the next earnings reports (and especially the ones after xmas) are bloody good



I suppose so, I'll be keeping an eye out for who's winning market share and who's falling behind...


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## Smurf1976 (13 September 2020)

aus_trader said:


> They have made a stance in the consumer market place and they'll fight to let go of their share of the pie to competitors and newcomers.



It'll almost certainly be like most industries in the long term. A small number of players emerge as dominant.

Those old enough will remember that 25 years ago many internet companies had less than 100 customers all up and were literally operating from someone's spare bedroom. Or go back to the early 1900's and there were a huge number of companies manufacturing cars, most of them with truly miniscule production rates.

This'll be the same I expect. Come back in a few years and there'll be 2 - 4 dominant players and half a dozen smaller ones and that's it.


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## over9k (14 September 2020)

Yeah, the question is who gets swallowed up by what. 

Look at retail - big retail is eating small retail, but etail is swallowing both. 

There's always a bigger fish etc.


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## peter2 (16 September 2020)

On the mainstream news tonight. Possible Gov't action on predatory payday lenders.  I'd call it more inaction.
In the report it was mentioned that the Gov't has given ASIC more powers to deal with this. Classic hand off.


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## aus_trader (16 September 2020)

peter2 said:


> On the mainstream news tonight. Possible Gov't action on predatory payday lenders.  I'd call it more inaction.
> In the report it was mentioned that the Gov't has given ASIC more powers to deal with this. Classic hand off.



They (authorities) can be quite powerful though, I have seen payday lenders taken to the cleaners (in terms of share price decimation) when they did these measures over the last number of years.

It's not hard to see the effects when you look at the long term share price decline of traditional payday lenders such as *Radio Rentals* i.e. Thorn Group Ltd  (TGA) and *Cashies* i.e. Cash Converters International Ltd (CCV).


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## Dona Ferentes (17 March 2021)

Commonwealth Bank will undercut Afterpay and conduct credit checks to reduce the risk of customers overcommitting themselves in the biggest competitive response of a major bank to the wildly successful buy now, pay later phenomenon.

CBA’s new product, CommBank BNPL, will allow up to 4 million of its retail customers to pay in four instalments. CBA aims to outflank the leaders of the rapidly growing buy now, pay later sector, such as Afterpay and Zip Co, but analysts are unsure whether the bank will be able to catch them after ceding so much territory


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## over9k (18 March 2021)

I wonder if they tried to take it over and got told to do one and have had no choice but to go this way. 

Seems grossly incompetent to be this late to the party otherwise.


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## Dona Ferentes (5 July 2021)

Who Has BNPL Pole Position?​            By Mark Story |

... *Afterpay *((APT)) holds the position as market leader in the domestic market for BNPL. It is the most downloaded, frequently used app, with the most traffic and unique visitors to the site.

Over in the UK, where the BNPL market will likely remain duopolistic, Swedish-based *Klarna *has developed and maintained a strong market share with first-mover advantage. However, since launching in the UK in June of 2019, *Clearpay *(Afterpay’s UK business) has seen a marked step-up in website traffic.

....across the Atlantic from the UK, and notice a much more oligopolistic market structure prevails in the US. There are three main competitors in Afterpay, US-based *Affirm *and Klarna, without a clear number one market player.

These are the some of the conclusions drawn by Jarden from recent data on trends and changes in competitive dynamics in key BNPL markets.

As an overlay to these findings, the competitive threat of *PayPal *needs to be considered. The company launched its BNPL product in August 2020 with a rollout through Germany, France, the UK and US, and is due to launch soon in Australia.

Also, specific to the US competitive landscape, Afterpay recently added non-network merchants to its app.  Does this represent an evolution in the company’s revenue model?









						Who Has BNPL Pole Position? – ShareCafe
					

While the struggle continues for BNPL supremacy across three continents, the Afterpay revenue model evolves and the spectre of PayPal looms large.




					www.sharecafe.com.au


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## dyna (12 July 2021)

L.I.C.  "East 72", while losing 6.2% this quarter [ versus a 8.2% gain for the S&P 500 ] did have success shorting AfterPay over the 1/4 and it is shorting  the $950 Million listed BNPL "Sezzle" . The fund manager says Sezzle's recent Form 10 lodgement with the US's SEC and ASX shows the pressure it's under  from loss making BNPL loading alliances with larger merchants on onerous terms and outstandingly bad funding relationships.


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## peter2 (14 July 2021)

Good to see big tech enter the BNPL sector. This spices things up a bit. PayPal's Pay in 4 has been switched on for Aussies with no late payment fees. That's going for the jugular of *APT* who collected $70mill in late fees in 2020. 

I've been gobsmacked by all the BNPL companies flooding the ASX. They've been great trading but I've never considered them an investment worth holding. I believe that *APT* is still not profitable, in spite of it's market dominance. 

This fintech payment sector is a rapidly evolving one. I wonder if the winning model can force the credit card interest rates down. If it wasn't for the lockdown, the *APT/Z1P/SZL *shorters would be dancing in the streets.


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## over9k (14 July 2021)

First mover advantage is not to be underestimated (a lot of books have been written on this very topic). 

As to whether paypal and/or square will be able to stick a real thorn in the side of afterpay and the like remains to be seen.


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## bsnews (15 July 2021)

The USA market is hardy tapped. Plenty of room for new players I don't see this as one winner takes all. PayPal do not have a very good track record.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (15 July 2021)

peter2 said:


> Good to see big tech enter the BNPL sector.... PayPal's Pay in 4
> 
> I've been gobsmacked by all the BNPL companies flooding the ASX.



Yeah, so many. After AfterPay, the deluge. Recently a new one called (imaginatively) BeforePay.

I'm waiting for *PayPay*, or Double Pay for short.


----------



## frugal.rock (15 July 2021)

Dona Ferentes said:


> I'm waiting for *PayPay*, or Double Pay for short.



I'm hanging out for
McScrooge Pay, where one never pays...

Meanwhile, *Z1P* slowly bouncing back from 6 month lows range...

Yesterday's news is now old... and created a buy the dip opportunity, imo.

New players won't be grabbing market share anytime quickly.


----------



## peter2 (15 July 2021)

I have a different opinion. Established tech will slay the new dragon. If *APT *is not profitable now, when will it ever be? *APT, Z1P *will have to provide something else. PayPal can insert the new Pay in 4 with its existing offerings. I have used PayPal twice in the past year and they've already offered me the Pay in 4 deal with no late fees.


----------



## frugal.rock (15 July 2021)

bsnews said:


> PayPal do not have a very good track record.



I agree based on a couple of hundred purchases using the system over the years.


peter2 said:


> Established tech will slay the new dragon.



Maybe, but that remains to be seen as @over9k pointed out.

The poor track record comes from past poor tech imo.
Not sure if they have that sorted yet?

I recently tried to cancel a card and add a new card used in PayPal and had a hard time doing it due to poor tech.
Meanwhile their "robodebt" style debt collection system rang me everyday. 
It apparently has an automated message, I never heard it as the system seemed to be faulty and nothing was heard.
I looked the number up on line and found it was PayPal.
Meanwhile, I still couldn't add a new card because the old one wouldn't delete, or something like that...
Rather pathetic scenario and the whole episode left a sour taste all over a measly $25 or thereabouts that was payment directed to the defunct card.
My 2 cents.


----------



## aus_trader (16 July 2021)

I don't have a country bias but if there are good potential candidates on the asx I'll be checking them out.

Kinda agree with the fellow posters above that there is a lot of candidates entering pure BNPL space and it may be getting a little crowded. We've had some involvement with the leaders in the early days to realise some profits.

I still like the FinTech space in general without being limited to BNPL stocks. For that reason there is just one Fintech stock in the Speculative Stock Portfolio at the moment and it's more in the business lending segment as opposed to pure BNPL space. Surprisingly it's less affected by the BNPL slump today and actually having a good up day:



By the way if you are worried about if the BNPL stock will ever be profitable, well this guy already pays dividends so hopefully that answers that all important question about profitability...


----------



## over9k (16 July 2021)

Alternatively, just bet on the sector as a whole and buy up all four big names (afterpay, zip pay, square, paypal).

You know, simple pareto principle.


----------



## aus_trader (16 July 2021)

You'd assume their growth continues because each one has already gone through an astronomical share price appreciation. Two don't make a profit yet, and Square has a very high valuation that it needs to deliver on. Only PayPal has a slightly better valuation. None of them pay dividends.

Would've been good to have been on the whole journey all the way through, but as I mentioned there would have been a lot of fear to hold on at times as there was massive volatility in those stocks at times. It's been satisfying to take a few chunks of profit along the journey with the two asx stocks in their early days. And always looking for the next Afterpay or Square Inc if we can find them early.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (27 July 2021)

Barrier to entry?


----------



## aus_trader (28 July 2021)

Dona Ferentes said:


> Barrier to entry?
> 
> View attachment 128015



Absolute choc-o-block in the BNPL space. Great find  

That's why it's better to find stocks that are out of favor or in sectors where everybody is not fighting for the last dollar.

I mean we are talking about making a tiny margin on late payments on small everyday stuff usually, like shop retail or online retail in most cases with these BNPL stocks and despite MAMOTH valuations, I don't know if some of these market darlings will ever be profitable. And now we have this many businesses fighting it out for that dollar and more joining the scene with IPO's, a crowded space would be an understatement.

If we need to talk big margins, we need to look for companies collecting payments on every transaction not just hoping and preying on people falling into the late payment debt traps. We are talking making a healthy commission on when a jumbo jet or private jet is sold from one owner to another or that luxury car or the Rollex is sold from one owner to another. How about making a commission on every car sold on eBay USA ? So I reckon there is a better than the 30Billion Afterpay Ltd (APT) in the making with Escrow.com. The only way to own a piece of that business is via owning a piece of the current Speculative Stock Portfolio stock Freelancer Ltd (FLN) which fell heavily today on delivering an amazing result of accelerating growth by Escrow.com and steady growth by Freelancer and the rest of the business... I will cover the breakdown of the results reported today in the spec portfolio if I have time.




There is also a dividend paying profitable business lender that is not competing in the BNPL space in the spec portfolio which also had a healthy pull back in today's price action.


----------



## over9k (28 July 2021)

Anyone else noticed that the service numbers for the banks, paypal and so forth have DRAMATICALLY improved since this BNPL war really kicked off?

I used to be nearly unable to think of anything more excruciating than having to deal with paypal, bank etc customer service, but I had to call paypal this afternoon and they were absolutely fantastic, expedited my issue, and even called me back a couple of hours later simply to let me know that the changes had been applied.

This was unthinkable 2-3 years ago.



On a related note, I nearly died of laughter upon calling their customer service people who are all obviously working from home in whatever third world asian country they're in only to hear an actual ROOSTER crowing at the top of its lungs in the background of the call.

Whilst I nearly died of laughter, the poor girl on the other end nearly died of embarrassment. 

But I thought it was amazing.


----------



## Joules MM1 (2 August 2021)

Jack Dorsey leads blockbuster $29 bn buyout of Australian BNPL giant Afterpay
					

The takeover underscores the popularity of a business model that has upended consumer credit by charging merchants a fee to offer small point-of-sale loans




					www.livemint.com
				




from a small retailers point of view - an utterly dunmb idea - that concept  is a bomb waiting to go off
in a manic equity boom (which we are only part way thru) any BS is acceptable in the grab for cash


----------



## Dona Ferentes (22 October 2021)

The Reserve Bank wants buy now, pay later providers, including Afterpay and Zip, to remove rules in their contracts with merchants that prevent the payment costs of the services being passed on to customers.

The about-face by the central bank, set out in a conclusions paper for its review of retail payments regulation, comes after “_strong feedback from merchants that BNPL has become an essential payment offering for many of them and that the high cost of these services was pushing up their payment costs,_” the RBA said.

After signalling last year that buy now, pay later providers could maintain the preventions as they build a customer base against bank-issued credit cards, the *RBA has backflipped *and has now concluded “_it would be in the public interest and consistent with its mandate to promote competition and efficiency in the Australian payments system for BNPL providers to remove their no-surcharge rules, so that merchants can apply a surcharge to those payments if they wish._”



> “_This approach is consistent with the board’s long-standing principle in relation to no-surcharge rules,_” the RBA said on Friday.


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## Greynomad99 (23 October 2021)

With apparently 60% of BNPL users saying they wouldn't continue to use if they had to pay a 4% surcharge, the RBA comments are yet another hole in what is becoming a somewhat leaky boat - one that is likely to see only the survival of the fittest.


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2021)

Some time ago I did a little back of Guinness stained coaster calculations on the business viability of all the BNPL stocks.

My hazy recollection was that they didn't make a lot of sense, not at least for the valuations at the time... and had kind of considered that I had missed the boat as far as momentum trades.

A quick perusal of the antichrist press to check on updates for fear pr0n, I spotted an article showing they are reporting big losses.... Confirming my scientific <cough> analysis.

Any thoughts gents, gentesses and others?









						Buy now, pay later providers take a beating
					

Australian buy now, pay later providers have taken a beating on the stock market with shares plunging on average 80 per cent with the sector losing millions and a reported dive in consumer interest in the product.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 November 2021)

Greynomad99 said:


> With apparently 60% of BNPL users saying they wouldn't continue to use if they had to pay a 4% surcharge



There's something not quite right about being offered finance on a $10 purchase.

Anyone taking up such an offer, and willingly paying interest, is someone who's an extremely long way down the list of people you'd sensibly lend money to.

For the rest, surely they're using it only due to convenience and being effectively free.

Only time I've even thought about using such a thing personally was online due to the offer of a discount. That is, cheaper to pay via one of these services than to just pay outright. Even then, for the relatively small discount I didn't bother.


----------



## Greynomad99 (26 November 2021)

I'm old school (very old school) and never cease to be amazed by people who rather than grab a bite of breakfast at home will pay exorbitant prices for their mashed avocado and very expensive designer coffee (my 27 year old daughter would need a Youtube video to work out how to turn our oven on). I drink black tea and begrudge paying $5 for a tea bag and hot water. Went to a 'cheap' suburban pizza restaurant the other night (I'd forgotten these exist with Covid) and they were looking for $39 for a pizza. We make our own and forgetting about staff and overheads the base and topping might have cost $5 to make. The public seem happy to pay these prices for convenience and financing $10 when you don't have $10 cash is just an extension of this convenience factor of having something now rather than waiting. 
However, I'm with you Smurf - anyone who needs to borrow $10 shouldnt!
There was as item on the TV news last night saying that apart from Afterpay whose price has been held up by its sale to Square, the rest of the wannabe BNPL have lost about 40% of their value in recent times.


----------



## Value Collector (26 November 2021)

Greynomad99 said:


> I'm old school (very old school) and never cease to be amazed by people who rather than grab a bite of breakfast at home will pay exorbitant prices for their mashed avocado and very expensive designer coffee (my 27 year old daughter would need a Youtube video to work out how to turn our oven on). I drink black tea and begrudge paying $5 for a tea bag and hot water. Went to a 'cheap' suburban pizza restaurant the other night (I'd forgotten these exist with Covid) and they were looking for $39 for a pizza. We make our own and forgetting about staff and overheads the base and topping might have cost $5 to make. The public seem happy to pay these prices for convenience and financing $10 when you don't have $10 cash is just an extension of this convenience factor of having something now rather than waiting.
> However, I'm with you Smurf - anyone who needs to borrow $10 shouldnt!
> There was as item on the TV news last night saying that apart from Afterpay whose price has been held up by its sale to Square, the rest of the wannabe BNPL have lost about 40% of their value in recent times.



You could say the same for any restaurant meal I guess, if you don’t have much money, then it’s worth it to you to cook at home, if you have loads of money, or really enjoy eating out as a life experience then it’s worth it to spend the money.

As for buy now pay later stocks, my favourite is CBA, the strong earnings and dividends are nice.


----------



## Value Collector (26 November 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> There's something not quite right about being offered finance on a $10 purchase.
> 
> Anyone taking up such an offer, and willingly paying interest, is someone who's an extremely long way down the list of people you'd sensibly lend money to.
> 
> ...



There was a time in my life when If I wanted a book I would have to lay by it, and pay it off over a month of so, if I had the option to make the same payments but take the book home and read it a month earlier, It would have been great.


----------



## Greynomad99 (7 December 2021)

It's looking more and more like BNPL's best days are behind them with ever louder demands from debt consultants clamouring for their regulation. Z1P's chart mirrors the glide path of a brick and even APT is getting the wobbles with its acquirer, Square, having its price collapse as well. 
On a more positive note I'd expect Z1P to have hit bottom (or close to it) as several charting techniques/theories show $4.10 - $4.60 to be the theoretical range for the low, with $4.20  the most probable. For anyone still holding on to this stock I hope that proves true.


----------



## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

Greynomad99 said:


> It's looking more and more like BNPL's best days are behind them with ever louder demands from debt consultants clamouring for their regulation. Z1P's chart mirrors the glide path of a brick and even APT is getting the wobbles with its acquirer, Square, having its price collapse as well.
> On a more positive note I'd expect Z1P to have hit bottom (or close to it) as several charting techniques/theories show $4.10 - $4.60 to be the theoretical range for the low, with $4.20  the most probable. For anyone still holding on to this stock I hope that proves true.



Good morning GN. I took an interest on BNPL running up the hill more than a yr ago but didn't venture into it. Kept an eye for ZIP sp to dip for $5 entry, which I did for a sm amt. Currently outstanding to add another 1k if it falls to 3 plus or shld I retreat in this skidding?


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## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

Value Collector said:


> You could say the same for any restaurant meal I guess, if you don’t have much money, then it’s worth it to you to cook at home, if you have loads of money, or really enjoy eating out as a life experience then it’s worth it to spend the money.
> 
> As for buy now pay later stocks, my favourite is CBA, the strong earnings and dividends are nice.



Just like GN, from the same old classroom. 
Once every fortnight we may indulge to have lunch out. Lunch is always cheaper than Dinner even with a glass or two to go with the meals. Not thoroughly broke yet but like to bear in mind... Retired life is meant for Relaxing n Enjoying it while we still have the moolah, health,  mind and legs ability to walk ...there will be plenty of time to sit in Nursing Home waiting for visitor, if you are lucky or you could be  lying in bed 24hrs a day waiting for someone kind enough to assist you with a sip of that precious liquid water sitting on your bedside table, only your eyes could see n your throat is crying dry for it.


----------



## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

Value Collector said:


> There was a time in my life when If I wanted a book I would have to lay by it, and pay it off over a month of so, if I had the option to make the same payments but take the book home and read it a month earlier, It would have been great.



It comes with an added cost on top. 
Recalling those lay by....always Good to teach poor financier to be PATIENCE.
 A form of saving, putting aside a small amt n in the end you get your reward.


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## Value Collector (7 December 2021)

Rabbithop said:


> Just like GN, from the same old classroom.
> Once every fortnight we may indulge to have lunch out. Lunch is always cheaper than Dinner even with a glass or two to go with the meals. Not thoroughly broke yet but like to bear in mind... Retired life is meant for Relaxing n Enjoying it while we still have the moolah, health,  mind and legs ability to walk ...there will be plenty of time to sit in Nursing Home waiting for visitor, if you are lucky or you could be  lying in bed 24hrs a day waiting for someone kind enough to assist you with a sip of that precious liquid water sitting on your bedside table, only your eyes could see n your throat is crying dry for it.



Exactly your retirement is broken up into three stages.

1. Go Go years (early years of retirement)
2, Go slow years (mid retirement)
3, No Go years (late stages of life)

There is not much point saving all your money for your no go years when all you want to do is sit at home watching TV.

You should front load your spending into your GO Go years where you can do more activities that you can’t do later in life.

( I recently read a book called Die with Zero, it’s changed my perspective on money, I highly recommend)


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## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

Value Collector said:


> Exactly your retirement is broken up into three stages.
> 
> 1. Go Go years (early years of retirement)
> 2, Go slow years (mid retirement)
> ...



Currently in no 2 but still hanging on to no1. Have to had a good laughs at ourselves...threw a home cooked lunch spread at home to catch up with friends f2f, only 10 of us. It ended at 5pm took an hr of cleaning up as soon as we sat down to watch 6pm news, we were falling asleep. Good decision to lock up, lights out, in bed at 7pm...that's retired life...what's the author name


----------



## Value Collector (7 December 2021)

Rabbithop said:


> Currently in no 2 but still hanging on to no1. Have to had a good laughs at ourselves...threw a home cooked lunch spread at home to catch up with friends f2f, only 10 of us. It ended at 5pm took an hr of cleaning up as soon as we sat down to watch 6pm news, we were falling asleep. Good decision to lock up, lights out, in bed at 7pm...that's retired life...what's the author name



Author- Bill Perkins 
Title - Die With Zero


----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2021)

Value Collector said:


> You could say the same for any restaurant meal I guess, if you don’t have much money, then it’s worth it to you to cook at home, if you have loads of money, or really enjoy eating out as a life experience then it’s worth it to spend the money.
> 
> As for buy now pay later stocks, my favourite is CBA, the strong earnings and dividends are nice.



There is a reason Australia's savings are up $230b over the pandemic period, people had to stay home and cook etc.lol


----------



## Craton (7 December 2021)

From my post in GG Dogs of Dec 2021 thread. Would someone be able to get me a quick reply?



> BNPL and am not a stock holder or user of.
> So with the holiday season shopping spree soon to be fever pitch, heard on the ABC radio today that many ppl have multiple BNPL accounts and thus, are in debt crisis.
> E.g. one woman, *on the pension*, has eight of said accounts and has amassed $2.5k in monthly late fees. Ouch!
> Just wondering what provisions the BNPL companies have in place for debt defaults, recovery and write offs etc?


----------



## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

Craton said:


> From my post in GG Dogs of Dec 2021 thread. Would someone be able to get me a quick reply?



That's the reason I am not keen on those type of stock, still dip in 1k on ZIP to test the water. Lots of ple esp the young ones to get fast money to have things NOW n why worry about the small monthly fee, they never think it will add up.


----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2021)

Craton said:


> From my post in GG Dogs of Dec 2021 thread. Would someone be able to get me a quick reply?



Yep it wasn't as though we on here said as much, as soon as BNPL came out, just another way for people to spend money they don't have.
It just show what a bloody fiasco the banking royal Commission was, ASIC slams the banks for irresponsible lending and waves through BNPL, go figure, obviously common sense isn't a pre requisite in ASIC IMO.


----------



## divs4ever (7 December 2021)

Value Collector said:


> Exactly your retirement is broken up into three stages.
> 
> 1. Go Go years (early years of retirement)
> 2, Go slow years (mid retirement)
> ...



 sorry i went  straight to stage 3  , but hope to go back and test out stages to 2 and 1 in the future ( for a visit )

 BTW   i did a LOT in the first 60 years  

 so for stage 1  where would i go ( that i haven't already been )  i had 45 years to buy a new car .. and didn't  , unless i migrate  i have no long range travel plans  , currently 

 avoid TV like the plague  , and have  ad-blockers to filter the noise on the internet ( so less inspiration to shop )
 stage 3 isn't so bad  the main challenge is a sensible place to park the cash , in case stage 3 ( for me ) lasts longer than predicted ( and the savings get mauled by inflation )


----------



## Craton (7 December 2021)

Rabbithop said:


> That's the reason I am not keen on those type of stock, still dip in 1k on ZIP to test the water. Lots of ple esp the young ones to get fast money to have things NOW n why worry about the small monthly fee, they never think it will add up.



One thing the young ones probably pay scant regard to is their credit score because BNPL has an effect on that too.


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## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

what can I say...I am glad that we did a lot of overseas holidays n cruising too. It's an experience that we have no regrets before Covid. Not sure we want to travel far away for another 5 to 8yrs.
Rewarding myself with a small Honda car to run around on retirement, 11yrs later still loyal to me.
Currently motto  is to help/support others that are in the pit with D or losing partner. Such is life, Live sensibly and with no regrets.


----------



## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

Craton said:


> One thing the young ones probably pay scant regard to is their credit score because BNPL has an effect on that too.



Well pointed out...but the young one, don't care. Maybe I should said, majority  are not at that stage of life that needs to borrow huge sum to buy a house so cr rating would be water off duck's back.


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## divs4ever (7 December 2021)

bizarrely in 1975  my credit rating was terrible , because i had never borrowed before  ( so had no record of debt repayment )

 i bet my credit rating is still terrible  after that loan @ 17.5%   , i never borrowed again  ( or even applied for credit cards or a margin loan  )

 and just to make you cringe further  between 2011 and 2016 i had a great time investing in corporate debt ( despite MY appalling credit rating )

 to me the credit game is simply unbelievable ( but popular with the masses )


----------



## wayneL (7 December 2021)

divs4ever said:


> bizarrely in 1975  my credit rating was terrible , because i had never borrowed before  ( so had no record of debt repayment )
> 
> i bet my credit rating is still terrible  after that loan @ 17.5%   , i never borrowed again  ( or even applied for credit cards or a margin loan  )
> 
> ...



It's actually pretty nice to not give a @#£& about your credit score.

I have no idea what mine even is or ever was, it been 34 years since I've ever had any form of credit (apart from  business accounts, which I avoid as much as possible too).


----------



## Rabbithop (7 December 2021)

What a turn around on market, uphill climb at the last hour. Check out ZIP...at the time of posting up 9.10%.


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## Greynomad99 (8 December 2021)

The government is releasing its proposal for regulation of BNPL's today. If it places them under the requirements of the existing consumer lending laws much of their business is toast! That said our LNP leaders have never been strong on regulating business so it may just be another limp-wristed slap. Not a good day to be holding BNPL I suspect.


----------



## frugal.rock (8 December 2021)

Greynomad99 said:


> The government is releasing its proposal for regulation of BNPL's today.



Thanks for letting us know, that's some pretty big news...

I guess this is when Z1P might outshine Alfyerpay?
Zip customers are credit checked during the onboard process, Alfyerpay doesn't credit check...
Don't know about the others.
I remember that Z1P was fully aware of impending legislation and participated in the code of practice process. 
They should be fully aware of what will be in the proposal and my understanding is, they have been trying to operate within future expected legislations, to some extent.

@peter2 posted a list of BNPL stocks which included Tyro.
Would like to point out that Tyro is not a BNPL company.
It is a payments, terminals and merchant lending company.

The official blurb...

About Tyro - Tyro is a technology-focused and values-driven Group providing Australian businesses with payment solutions and value-adding 
business banking products. The Group provides simple, flexible and reliable payment solutions as a merchant acquirer, along with 
complementary business banking products.
For the more than 58,000 Australian merchants who chose to partner with Tyro at 30 June 2021, the Group processed more than $25.5 billion in transaction value in FY21.
In FY21 the Group generated $119.4 million in gross profit, originated $25.8 million in loans and held merchant deposits totalling $75.5 million. 
Tyro is Australia’s fifth largest merchant acquiring bank by number of terminals in the market, behind the four major banks. The business was 
founded in 2003 with a goal of being the most efficient acquirer of electronic payments in Australia. Tyro has a track record of innovation, creating 
purpose-built solutions and being first to market.
This approach saw the company become the first technology company to receive an Australian specialist credit card institution licence in 2005.
In 2015 that licence was replaced by the award of an Australian banking licence, making Tyro the 
first new domestic banking licensee in over a decade. 
Payments are at the core of Tyro’s business, using its proprietary core technology platform to enable credit and debit card acquiring.
This offering is enhanced by features purpose-designed for those merchants who choose to partner with the Group, including Point of Sale systems integrations, least-cost routing (Tap & Save) and alternative payment types such as integrated Alipay.
While traditionally focused on in-store payments, Tyro has 
recently expanded into eCommerce.
Further, Tyro provides value-adding solutions to its partners, such as loans in the form of merchant cash advances and fee-free, interest-bearing merchant transaction accounts.
Tyro has a team of more than 500 people, approximately half of whom are in technology roles.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (17 December 2021)

Washington-based US regulator the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) issued a series of orders to five US players including Zip Co, Affirm, Afterpay, Klarna, PayPal.



> “_The CFPB is concerned about accumulating debt, regulatory arbitrage, and data harvesting in a consumer credit market already quickly changing with technology,”_ the regulator said in its statement..




_and most aspirants are tanking_

Afterpay has put out a statement suggesting it believes the review by the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is a positive for the industry.



> “_Afterpay welcomes efforts to ensure that there are appropriate regulatory protections for consumers in the diverse BNPL industry, and that providers are meeting high standards and delivering positive consumer outcomes while protecting their data._”





> “_Afterpay provides consumers with better transparency, lower costs, and better budgeting tools than traditional forms of credit and promotes responsible spending_.”




In a statement on Thursday in the US, CFPB Director Rohit Chopra said: “_We have ordered Affirm, Afterpay, Klarna, PayPal, and Zip to submit information so that we can report to the public about industry practices and risks_.”

The CFPB said it had three general concerns around consumers accumulating debt, regulatory arbitrage and data harvesting.

“_Some BNPL companies may not be adequately evaluating what consumer protection laws apply to their products. For example, some BNPL products do not provide certain disclosures, which could be required by some laws__,” _ the CFPB’s statement said_._
_
“And while the BNPL application may look similar to a standard checkout with a credit card, protections that apply to credit cards may not apply to BNPL products.

“Many BNPL companies do not provide dispute resolution protections available to users of other forms of credit, like credit cards. And finally, depending on what rules the lender is following, different late fees and policies apply._”


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## Dona Ferentes (15 February 2022)

_Buy now, pay later groups finance their loans to consumers by borrowing at benchmark floating rates like the London interbank offer rate (LIBOR) or bank bill swap rate (BBSW) plus a variable fixed margin, related to the assessed credit quality of the underlying loans and businesses. As floating borrowing rates rise in line with cash rates, so does the cost for the buy now, pay later players to fund their enormous loan books_.

_Shares in subprime lenders Zebit and Laybuy are down 95 per cent and 91 per cent from their respective IPOs. ZipCo and Sezzle are down 77 per cent and 83 per cent over the past year and fell 5.3 per cent and 7.3 per cent respectively on Monday to fresh 52-week lows. On an FX-adjusted basis Block’s current value means its takeover bid for Afterpay would only be worth $56.74 a share today, versus the $160 a share investors sent Afterpay to at the top of the buy now, pay later bubble this time last year._



La-Z-Buy?


----------



## mullokintyre (7 June 2022)

THE BNPL market darlings may well be in for a bit of rude shock.
This morning when I checked my banking  trans, there was a notice from NAB that they will very soon offer the BNPL service themselves.
Can't imagine the other banks will not join in the party.
Apple has already announced  that the BNPL facility will be included in the next release of the Apple IOS as part of the apple pay app.
No barriers to others entering the market should always be a bit of a warning.
Mick


----------



## KevinBB (7 June 2022)

Which one?
- none of them

Why?
- too risky

KH


----------



## divs4ever (7 June 2022)

KevinBB said:


> Which one?
> - none of them
> 
> Why?
> ...



 i avoided them all  , i couldn't see how they would make regular profits  , i expect in time for increased regulation  

 i DO hold CCP which i think  will get some increased opportunities , eventually buying up the overdue debt books ( that the BNPLs  are having difficulty collecting from .. as there will be as inflation bites )

 that does not mean they are all duds  and maybe some will be bought by someone else ( like Afterpay was )  but i chose to avoid 

 since now NAB has decided to play in the space  , i think others will follow , SOME might 'buy customers ' by snapping up distressed BNPLs 

 plenty of risk , but is there some reward for the correct picks


----------



## Austwide (7 June 2022)

I don't think any of the BNPL's have ever made a profit and even less likely now with with inflation reducing customers ability to pay (later).

Without real credit checks or repayment enforcement they're doomed.

I can't see NAB operating like that. 

I think properly done BNPL and straight EFT have the ability to kill the CC as it stands.


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## sptrawler (13 June 2022)

If this article is correct, it sounds as though the buy now pay later bubble is bursting, I didn't get onboard because I thought it was a too good to be true story. Missed out on a hell of a profit though.  
As the economy tightens up, I wonder if the peer to peer lending will be the next cab off the rank. 









						Buy now, pay later on the brink: ‘The entire market is collapsing’
					

The buy now, pay later sector’s rising bad debts and losses have become more apparent after pandemic stimulus payments from the government ended last year, and investors are worried.




					www.smh.com.au
				



If the crunch of cabbage in their KFC burgers was not enough to alert consumers to the tough times ahead, the Reserve Bank shocking the market with its biggest rate rise in 22 years probably did the trick.
And no sector will be watching the consumer crunch more closely than the buy now, pay later (BNPL) operators. The BNPL outfits have little room to manoeuvre as they try to convince the market that they have a future as a viable stand-alone business and won’t be killed off by a feature on your Apple or Commonwealth Bank app.


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## The Triangle (13 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> If this article is correct, it sounds as though the buy now pay later bubble is bursting, I didn't get onboard because I thought it was a too good to be true story. Missed out on a hell of a profit though.
> As the economy tightens up, I wonder if the peer to peer lending will be the next cab off the rank.
> 
> 
> ...



And how will the labor government treat the BNPL sector which has largely escaped any regulation or scrutiny from the Liberal* governments?   Crushing BNPL with regulation is not going to lose labor any votes and it will make them look 'tough' on dealing with corporations (without actually touching any corporation that matters).

*Note that the former chairman of HUM is often described as a liberal party power broker in the media.









						Coalition of consumer groups calls for the next Parliament to regulate BNPL | CHOICE
					

CHOICE joins more than 100 organisations calling for a commitment to reining in the unregulated buy now, pay later sector.




					www.choice.com.au


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