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- 12 September 2004
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money tree said:Clues thus far:
"Put your money into a Bankwest account for 6% return per annum. I can't see any risks in this system"
money tree said:error
I asked a while ago about brokers doing OCH + 0% and nobody responded. Comsec wants 50%, Avcol 30%, Sanford 1000% lol......
Synapse said:Hi,
2. This is a little more complex, but should work fine: Assume stock XYZ is $20.00 with IV=30%. Place following trade, again using 12 month Options:
Sell $20.00 Call @ 289c
Buy $20.50 Call @ 266c
Sell $20.50 Put @ 220c
Buy $20.00 Put @ 194c
Net Result = 49c Credit (i.e. $490.00 per set of contracts), however cost to close will always be 50c (i.e., $500.00). This results in a $10.00 loss per set of contracts. However, being tricky traders who know how the ACH works, we'd structure things in one of the following ways:
wayneL said:Why not go way away from the money with the box spread...like:
Sell $25.00 Call @ 84c
Buy $15.00 Call @ 5860c
Sell $15.00 Put @ 22c
Buy $25.00 Put @ 5180c
and get a credit of around $10.00...interest on $10k @ 5% being $500
Synapse said:Hi Wayne,
There would definitely be numerous variations as to which strike prices you could use when placing a box spread such as this. Please note that your example trade results in a net debit as you've described it and this would be a guaranteed losing trade based on those premiums. On the other hand it'd be a guaranteed winner if you swapped the long and short legs and did set it up for a massive > $10 net credit. By the way, I can't seem to replicate the premiums you've used - which pricing model are you using? Also, what IV, time until expiry and risk free rate did you use to generate those figures? Did you incorporate some form of dividend payment(s) into the pricing calculation?
To answer your question, the further away from the money you go, the more difficult the trade would be to place at any kind of fair premium value and furthermore you'd be up for more brokerage as the total dollar value of all 4 x legs would increase. This is no reason not to explore the possibilities, though...
My comments were meant more as food for thought and just one way of making something fit to the parameters that money tree had originally stated. I acknowledge that there will be many better approaches - indeed I found two other more efficient combinations of Options to achieve a better potential return within minutes finishing writing my other post.
I'd like to encourage us all to brainstorm more on this and see what we can come up with... Creating trades which will lock-in a predetermined profit, irregardless of the future movement in the underlying share price, would certainly be worth exploiting whenever possible!
Would anyone else like to add their comments/thoughts, in particular about setting up a 12 month long trade for a net credit and earning interest on the funds received?
Jason.
wayneL said:In the US, fair premium is available that far away from the money, often at zero skew.
SuperTed said:Think i need to start trading over there. The "market makers" really screw the OTM series here and have no concept of "fair" price
Firstly, thanks for bringing the post up again. Completely forgot about this mental exercise. We are attempting to figure out some risk free trades - obviously the pros doing it better than part-timers like myselfkaveman said:had a quick look through this thread after it was mentioned elsewhere.
It seems that you sell an option while buying others etc to make a risk free trade?
Yes, your sale needs to be matched by a buyer for the trade to openkaveman said:Does writing an option automatically mean it will get bought by someone?
thanks so the answer would be "no" it is not automatic. Writing an option only gets taken if you have a buyer at the price you want.Yes, your sale needs to be matched by a buyer for the trade to open
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